"Boyega said he was glad that Abrams would get to finish the tale he’d begun in Episode VII. “Even as a normal person in the audience, I wanted to see where that story was going,” Boyega said."
So, basically, the actors understood that they were telling a fundamentally different story in the second movie than in the first. I think that incoherence pervaded every scene of Last Jedi, and THAT is what made it boring and frustrating.
It didn't help that the casino scene was an amazingly ugly CGI pile of hot garbage straight out of the prequels.
2
Pardon my cynicism but at this point does anybody REALLY care? When the initial Star Wars trilogy came onto the scene they were innovative, timely, fast-paced sci-fi adventures with strong, memorable characters, GREAT villains and a wonderful sound track courtesy of Mr. Williams. Since then the series, instead of maintaining its freshness like the Bond films, has spiraled downwards into the murky satire of The Last Gedi aaaaaand SURPRISE almost nobody really cares that much any more. Its a dead Jar Jar Binks (wasn't he some kind of talking horse?): just let it rest in peace.
14
@Joseph Ross Mayhew, You're spot on. It reminds of that latest (hopefully last) Halloween thriller movie. Film critics loved it, and I had high expectations as a result. But it's so lame, I just can't believe how anyone could have loved it AT ALL. More importantly, the scary theme soundtrack of that move was so creepy back then, but playing it in that last sequel in the very 21st century was so lame, it's laughable, at best. And I feel the same about these SW trilogy, with those characters (Luke' wannabe Rey, Solo wannabe Poe, and who is Finn?).
Rogue One, I have to admit, is surprisingly fresh and well-done. Now, THAT is a movie along the SW theme that I can love.
4
The entire franchise has become mind numbing and exhausting. Laughable, would-be intricate plots are nothing more than the same old plot from the very first film, decked out in CGI overkill. Genuine creative invention has long faded away. "Star Wars" is now about as interesting as its brother franchise, McDonald's.
33
@John Counterpoint: my kids love the movies. They think the horse sequence was the best part of TLJ. They think the original trilogy is slow and boring.
As with pop music, it matters what age you first experience things. These are kids' movies first, so when older people deride them, the answer is easy: these movies aren't for you. Go watch Lincoln or something.
2
@Todd - Absolutely, it matters when you first experience things, along with 'state of mind.'
@John - Nice shot with "... its brother franchise..."
1
I'll be odd man out here and state that I loved Last Jedi. Rian Johnson brought an emotional depth to the characters and did visual storytelling at a level which I can only hope future viewers will come to appreciate and enjoy. I'm an old who grew up with the original trilogy, and found myself surprisingly emotionally invested in the new trilogy.
I'll be first in line for the first screening next week, but I'm going to the theater with more dread than excitement. I feel grief for the characters we've already said goodbye to, and I'm crying now, knowing that this is the film in which we'll truly be seeing Carrie Fisher's Princess Leia for the last time.
Nothing in this article made me feel better about the way JJ Abrams has finished this up. Adam Driver, when asked by Stephen Colbert for comment on the film, said Abrams did something "unique." I fear that's damning with faint praise, but we'll see.
In the eternal afterlife of Star Wars, there's always fan fiction, if the Powers That Be blow the storyline.
May the Force be with us!
#savebensolo
25
@Andrea Your post wins, thank you!
@Andrea I seem to agree with your general conclusions, but they seem to contradict your love of Rian Johnson's episode. To me, it came across like someone holding out a chair for someone to sit and then yanking it away, for the sitter to fall dangerously to the floor.
3
@Richard Hahn I get what you're saying. I've spent the last two years assuming the storytellers had the saga well in hand; that they had a clear sense of where they were going to end up at the completion of Episode IX. Reading JJ's quotes in this article makes me feel pretty uneasy. I'm reserving judgment on the whole business until I've had a chance to see TROS.
2
It is very sad to say this, but the magic of Star Wars is gone. It died with The Last Jedi, where one director was given free reign to absolutely destroy one of the most beloved characters of all time: Mark Hamill's Luke Skywalker.
This is the first Star Wars movie I'm not excited to see. The second movie in this trilogy is so badly written there is no way J.J. Abrams can rescue this trilogy. Bad movies have never upset me like Episode 8. It's so bad, it reaches back and ruins its immediate predecessor ("The Force Awakens") and when I watch the original trilogy now, tears well in my eye. I watch a naive but optimistic farm boy from Tatooine, knowing that in 35 years he will become a miserable, pathetic loser that erases all his accomplishments from the previous films. And then he dies for no reason (spoiler alert).
Shame on you Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson. You guys had a sacred duty as caretakers of the best mythology of modern film. And you absolutely blew it. Who goes into a trilogy without a coherent outline for how the three episodes will play out? That is incompetence. Episode 8 undos all the story arcs set up in Episode 7. And it destroys our favorite character.
The only way Disney can earn back my trust is to give Mark Hamill a one-off movie for Luke Skywalker that either retcons Episode 8, or digitally de-ages him so we can see what that farmboy from Tatooine was up to for 35 years before Rian Johnson ruined him.
11
@Troy
Spot on.
The movie was so ridiculously bad that without the hundreds of millions in special effects, it would've been straight to DVD.
My question for Disney has always been "How can you spend that much money and have this bad of a product?"
5
There are so many talented filmmakers out thetre. JJ Abrams is not one of them. He is perhaps the most overrated person making movies today. These Star Wars movies - basically remakes of the original three - are close to unwatchable by all but the most ardent fans and this one looks no different. It's basically great effects laid over the top of terrible storytelling and casting.
67
@DCS, that is exactly how I felt watching them. I saw the original on the second day of release. Nothing can match that, then Empire Strikes Back came out and I admitted I was wrong.
These JJ abominations are just hash made up of left overs from the originals. And they forgot the spice.
4
@DCS
If you think what JJ did to Star Wars was bad, check out his Star Trek movies.
Star Trek was always known as the 'thinking person's sci-fi' for the deeper plots and great storytelling.
Now, they are just action films in space.
3
@DCS for those who find fault with abram’s directing and storytelling: as a member of “the heaving seen all 9 episodes in real-time group,” and yearned for more, it’s not about abrams’ capabilities. He’s not star wars anymore than any other character. Abrams could be a pinch hitter on the Yankees. It’s about the fantasy, mystique, and glory of the story that has attracted its faithful and youngest followers making it an unmitigated success.
2
I remember (I was 27. Not a child) all the hoopla (that's a positive thing) surrounding the original. And the opening scene grabbed me and I believe almost everyone. Loved the movie. Hated the ending. Too hoky. Every time a new Star Wars movie is gonna come out, my TV has an avalanche of all the previous ones, so I get to sample them to see what I missed. Not being a student of these films, they come off to me as a cornucopia of wacky battles, badly choreographed fight sequences, and weak dialogue, accompanied with some very unimaginative scenes. It's like a bunch of kids making a movie with the same stuff they used to build a tree fort. Yeah, yeah, I'm not a little kid seeing them for the first time, but neither was I when I saw the first one. So, if anyone wants to defend the upcoming and past films as movies for kids, and I don't believe the first one was, you're partially correct. The films are mainly for selling merchandise, whether to go with a hamburger or ala carte.
I have lots of friends my age, a decade younger, a decade younger than that and on an on that are big, huge Star Wars fans. I don't want to take anything away from their (or any of your) enjoyment of the whole phenomenon. It's really cool to be "Inta" something/ really passionate. I think generations will look back at these films like those Saturday morning movie serials or "Spaghetti Western's." Until then, enjoy. I'm closing my eyes and remembering "Scene One."
What does "stick the landing" mean?
@Eileen Hays " stick the landing" is a term in Acrobatics. The Landing at the end of a routine. - Google
4
@Eileen Hays I wondered the same thing. I'm assuming that it's Pilot jargon for Landing an Airplane.
1
The subsequent trilogy movies are all but riding on the coattail of the original trilogy from Lucas that are still the best. To say "Rey, Poe, Finn" are characters that go down SW history, I'm sorry to break the news to you, but are just not *it* and you're just kidding yourself. Yes, the movies are making big bucks, but it's all on rising dollars from 3D and overseas markets in which movies with big cgi and brand-name recognition will generate big bucks, even if they are brand-dead.
I do give credit to Ridley whose Rey is ok (though she's just retelling Luke's story, but in a female's body but with no proper lineage). Isaac's Poe is dashing but he doesn't even come close to Solo. And Finn? We can editing this character out from the movie, and we won't miss a beat.
Oh, and by the way, where are the villains and bad guys? Speaking of which, Kylo Ren is sooooooo lame, it's unbelievable. Where is Darth Vader when we need him?
What these franchise wannabes and sequels totally miss is, audience does not need more and more characters (just to fill up your affirmation action quota). Audience wants a good story, and have it told nicely, with characters that we can love. As the C-3PO guy says it all, it used to be so simple, a few good guys, a few bad guys, and we have a classic that we all love. Now, we have so many characters, so many plotlines that don't mean a thing, but none that resonates, who freaking cares, really?
2
The Star Wars series is a needed distraction when the First Order is actually real and governing.
1
This badmouthing of the Last Jedi from Abrams and the rest of the cast is sickening.
1
@Santa, The Last Jedi is lame, and the weakest link. Face up to it.
1
@tiddle
There is nothing to 'face up to.' You didn't like it, your opinion. I loved it, my opinion.
But that is completely unrelated to what I'm saying. I'm saying that this dissing of TLJ and Rian Johnson comes across as a very cynical, calculated move to gain some brownie points with the fandom just before IX's release.
1
Geez, I don't know who on earth was taking the pictures & doing the color grading on the accompanying photos for this article but my God - they are ghastly looking. Do you think they could have made Ms. Russell look any more grotesque ?
As far as all the anxieties over these final 3 flicks -they are gonna make wads of cash, regardless of where it goes. And those wads of cash are really what it's all about. Not whether the stories were any good. If they make mountains of dollars it will be proclaimed Genius.
1
@Dheep' - PS - You people want a space Opera to drool over and actually THINK about ? The 4th year of The Expanse came out this morning and so far, it FAR surpasses anything in the Star Wars / Disney universe.
Thank you Mr. Bezos for saving this wonderful Sci Fi series. I hope JJ & George see it real soon for a lesson in Good Sci Fi.
1
J.J. Abrams: “I don’t actually think I’m good at anything.” This is the truest thing he has ever said.
6
Amazing that Adam Driver is not in group picture and zero comment on his involvement in the movie making. Maybe he (or Abrams) feels that the best way to assure his on-screen persona as a nasty, conflicted villain is to remain distant, like Lou Gossett, Jr., the drill sergeant, being roomed separately from the other actors in An Officer and a Gentleman so that he could be more intimidating and unfamiliar on set.
5
Yes, we are trolls. Yes, we want to see it fail. Yes, we want to see Star Wars die. This is not the issue. The issue is we used to be Fandom's most devout. People who practice fandom care when their franchise is destroyed. They care when something they love is turned into a vehicle for propaganda. They care when they are beaten over the head with something they held as beautiful. What you are witnessing is hatred for your franchise and your company.
4
@Danite
When you hit intellectual puberty you will eventually realize that this story is just a filmed comic book, and you won’t take it so seriously. Get involved with Shakespeare. Lots there about the human condition that will fill the void.
2
@Danite, I totally hear ya. There's no more fandom because there's nothing magically about it. All the "Rey, Poe, Finn" talk, I simply don't see anything special about them. They are all but vehicles that movie studio uses in milking the myth of the original Lucas SW trilogy to death.
4
Here’s hoping that George Lucas’s final rewrite and tinkering is the Jedi Magic needed to satisfy the “Fandom Menace” and Doomcock..
2
All these iterations are just fine. We have so many movies to pick from, you can watch you choice. Regardless, Star Wars (all of them) have earned their place. Granted, some have been silly (or stupid) but live with it.
3
All I know is that for the first time ever, I'm not excited about a new Star Wars film. I think its as tired as J.J. is.
7
Isn't it basically just the same movie over and over again?
I mean, I like Star Wars. I've seen most, if not all, of them. I might eventually watch this one. But don't try to fool me that there's something new here.
3
@Stevem Star Wars needs to be more like Star Trek, with stories and characters and non-humanoid foes and less actual war fighting against an empire. If this one has yet another battle against the legacy empire, count me as very unhappy. I'll take the Borg any day.
2
As a movie fan, Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi is definitely my favorite Star Wars movie. There are amazing visuals- some of the best looking scenes in any movie. The story keeps the action moving and visits new locations with great characters.
For the biggest fans of Jedi lore, some of the answers the movie provides may be frustrating, because they are not what was expected. I like Star Wars a lot but in perspective, it's just a fun piece of entertainment. I am still very surprised that Lucasfilm did not have the entire trilogy planned out before they started.
What online commenters often forget is that these movies are meant to appeal to both fans and a general audience. And most people enjoy these movies. They make billions of dollars. The Disney corporation is a filmmaking studio, which means they want to both make artistic projects and make money. Star Wars makes money because it is meant for everyone.
I don't understand the discourse that The Last Jedi ruined Star Wars. All the old movies are still there. The movie pushes the franchise forward. It made a ton of money. The filmmaking qualities are top notch. It's a lot of fun to watch. Everything a franchise movie need to be and more.
11
@Elijah that movie was a nonsensical mess with terrible writing and completely ruined any chances they have of turning the series around. Literally worse than the Phantom Menace.
6
@Elijah I also didn’t understand how “Last Jedi” ruined Star Wars - and I grew up seeing the original movies in the theaters. I was really excited to see Luke again and loved the interaction with Rey. I trust the filmmakers enough to go with it and see where it ends. I’m really excited about next Friday!
4
@Elijah, The Last Jedi is the worst in SW verse. The plot as we were told, that nothing really matters, no one is really that special, and anyone can be a jedi if you try hard enough, I'm sorry but that fucked up logic so ruins the mythical jedi force and everything in SW. Production of that movie is alright, but in the large SW scheme of things, it's despicable.
1
Okay, I may be one of the minority of commenters, but I just like the franchise. The claim it's "not worth watching" is fine for some, but I'll enjoy the movies for the characters, the special effects, the creativity, and the immersion into another universe. I'm just easy to please, i guess...
Sure, the story elements may be re-tellings of a similar story arc, but history does repeat itself -- just look at where our society is in comparison to "The Gilded Age" or even feudal times. I'm glad my fanboy reddit and discord, etc, fans have differing opinions though, otherwise what would life be except us acting as though we were a bunch on droids?
9
Way to go, NYT.
We now know that all three of the principals--Rey, Finn, and Poe, as well as C3PO--survive to (maybe) fight another day.
Were all the spoilers really necessary?
1
@magpie A spoiler is when you reveal a major plot point that depends upon surprise. In other words, it would be like if this article came out in 1980 and the author wrote, "In this follow-up to 1977's hugely successful 'Star Wars,' we learn that Luke Skywalker is the son of arch-villain Darth Vadar."
Revealing very broad aspects about the plot or themes of a movie is not a spoiler. If we followed your logic, saying practically anything at all becomes a spoiler. I mean, is the movie "Psycho" spoiled if I tell you it takes place at a creepy motel?
7
@magpie There has been NO public or private screening of this movie yet, not even to the media. This writer didn't spoil anything, as they haven't even seen the movie yet.
1
I loved "The Last Jedi" and have found that it holds up under repeat viewings. It was surprising, creative and emotionally involving and felt very much like a Star Wars film. Then again, I don't automatically hate strong female characters or nonwhite characters (or characters who are, god forbid, both!) the way so many of my fellow Americans do.
33
I guess it really is true that humans will make more effort to complain about something than to praise it, based on this first batch of comments.
I am still embarrassed for those fanboys and -girls who recoiled in horror from "The Last Jedi."
Despite one commenter's assertion that Lucas' movies were somehow "real" when it comes to science, they manifestly, and intentionally, were *not*; they were intended to come off like over-the-top Saturday-morning movie serials of the '30s and '40s, and the science mattered not at all.
Then there are those who continue to whine that the character of Luke was "ruined" because Johnson had the temerity to make him flawed and *human,* instead of a rather airless comic-book hero. I, for one, very much appreciated Johnson's attempts to bring a little moral complexity to the story arc.
And, of course, we can't forget all those who were hilariously indignant at the portrayal of Boyega's and Kelly Tran's characters ability to learn how to operate complicated fighting machinery "too quickly." Go back and look at Episode I and II, and you will find the same kind of unreality at play.
I like the simplicity, moral and otherwise, of the original trilogy. I appreciated the effects (if not much else) of the second. And, so far, I've appreciated the attempt to combine a more mature sensibility with spectacular visuals of the third.
Finally, the whiners would do well to remember that making a movie, any movie, is a monumentally difficult task.
100
@CB Evans
I have trouble reconciling your viewpoint that Star Wars (like Raiders) was "intended to come off like over-the-top Saturday-morning movie serials" and your propping Luke Skywalker up as something more than a "a rather airless comic-book hero."
Those over-the-top Saturday-morning movie serials of the '30s and '40s weren't really filled with in depth complex character studies.
"I like the simplicity, moral and otherwise," ...."I very much appreciated Johnson's attempts to bring a little moral complexity to the story arc."
Heros can be flawed. Many have been. But they should be heroic. We have plenty of real people.
14
@CB Evans
Of course, none in his right mind would claim that SW is hard SciFi. That's why I said that Lucas tried to make his universe "look" and "feel" real, and that he did.
Google Lucas "used future," and you will understand. In a nutshell, Lucas made the future look dirty and messy, and thus paved the way for much more cerebrate movies like Ridley's Alien and Bladerunner. That's really production design 101, but I understand that not everyone appreciates this when watching a movie.
My criticism of Johnson is not that of a fanboy - I am not - but that I find his fourth wall breaking, and constant quotations annoying. Yes, I get your references to Twelve O'Clock High and Casablanca, but please leave them out of my popcorn movies.
4
@CB Evans Indeed, it's as if everyone forgot Luke's character was weak and flawed and always at risk to turning to the Dark Side in all of the original trilogy. He even turned briefly when Vader mentioned his sister, "gave in to his anger", and cut off his own father's hand. I'm sad to realize all these years later, most people didn't understand the significance of that scene.
16
“Then there are stalwarts like Anthony Daniels, who has played the anxious automaton C-3PO in all nine “Star Wars” saga films, and found himself bewildered by the movies’ increasing complexity. “One reason I liked the original was there weren’t that many characters,” he said. “You had the good guys, the bad guy, a few rocket ships and that was it, really. Then eventually we end up with hundreds of Jedis with different colored lightsabers and I lose track.”
Amen to that Mr. Daniels!
7
so you are saying there isn't an episode x planned. it ends again?
@Irish
'so you are saying there isn't an episode x planned. it ends again?'
So long as they make money, new movies will be made.
1
Based on all the grumbling and complaints in these comments, you would figure no one wants to see any more of these terrible, ruined Star Wars movies.
Then I checked opening night ticket availability at the nearest IMAX screen. Premium tickets. We’re just under 2 weeks out and you’ll hurt your neck if you buy any of what’s left.
JJ Abrams is the person who put Luke Skywalker on an island alone for 10+ years, gave him no lines, and introduced him in the final scene while also splitting up his new trio. So let's put that into perspective when we talk about JJ coming to the rescue.
And let's reserve judgment of The Last Jedi until we see where it fits into a larger story. Because this article was clearly written to calm down the toxic fans who lost their composure after the last one. Let's see the movie first, then review it.
And, do y'all actually BELIEVE Kylo Ren's version of Rey's parentage?!? Luke was lied to by the people he trusted about this family, too, before learning the truth. Why are people taking Kylo's words about Rey OR "letting the past die" at face value??
3
@Ryan A. I don't have much care about Kylo Ren (a very lame villain) and Rey (a lame Luke wannabe).
1
After the disaster the Last Jedi was there isn't much to be salvaged. Bye bye Star Wars
3
The thrill of the new batch of Star Wars movies, for this aging gen-Xer, was seeing old friends—Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewy (read: Harrison, Mark, Carrie, and that guy in the shaggy suit). Beyond that, the Star Wars movie franchise has been stuck in an endless loop of simplistic repetition and diminishing tropes, ever since Return of the Jedi.
I return to the trough, each time, out of desperate desire to re-live the childhood wonder I felt, 42 years ago. It lasts about as long as the first blast of symphonic horns, and recedes like the title, lost in the dark space of memory.
13
@Bartleby S - Beautiful. Ain't nothing wrong with giving it a shot. Enjoy it the best you can.
It is interesting to read the negative critiques, which say more about those who write them than they do about the films. It’s always easy to criticize when one doesn’t have the skills, persistence or knowledge to write, act in, produce or direct a film.
The critiques seem to be written by people who have degrees in English Lit and are somehow imbued with a sense of self importance.
It’s a movie, folks. Entertainment. Don’t like it? Don’t watch it. And get a life.
6
@Noley NO. No no no. People who managed to turn a Han Solo movie into a bomb do NOT receive that defense. That should not have been possible. They had to EARN that failure.
6
For my money, the only reason the first trilogy really sparkles (and the rest don’t) is the onscreen chemistry between Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford. All this chatter about living up to the expectations of “the fans” - it’s like everyone’s arguing over the aesthetics of the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.
14
@Matt - How dare you belittle the depth of the Power Rangers. What's next for you? Are you going to tear apart the "Love Boat" or "The Monkees" TV shows?
"Breathe. Breathe. OK." I'm OK now. You make a very good point(s).
My son was about 4 wen we took him to see the first Star Wars movie. He charmed the audience by standing up and screaming , “I love you, Luke Skywalker!” Now, nearly 40 years later, he and I have a date to see the final installment in the saga. He probably won’t stand yp in the aisle this time, but I’m looking forward to sharing this experience with him nevertheless.
25
Star Wars was Luke's story. That story ended with the original trilogy. It is no wonder everything that has come after is forgettable. I am genuinely surprised that anyone could like the new Disney movies. Fan fiction, nothing more.
9
Dear Hollywood: how about a self-imposed ban on all superhero movies and Star Wars for a year? I can't keep up and they feel like the same thing over and over.
6
Why can't there be a wholly new Science Fiction movie made, considering the incredible body of written work in that genre that already exists instead of left-overs?
16
Not so much a trilogy as 3 movies each a reboot of the last. Does anyone really feel for, know or feel invested in any of these characters? Rey, Poe ,captain phantasm ,Adam driver and uh, the others. I know I'll never forget the knights of ren or that disfigured guy why was the kind of the new emperor.
13
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery but also the clearest expression of mediocrity". Yep someone said that somewhere...can't remember who or where, but they do deserve credit, because in a way it perfectly encompasses the case of JJ Abrams as a director and his body of work, in this case on the "Star Wars" franchise (let's not forget "Star Trek" either).
Abrams has been an astute and observant student of the George Lucas and Steven Spielberg school of movie-making. Many of his projects, especially the cinematic ones, have been almost love letters to them. And such was the case with "The Force Awakens". It is a tribute from Abrams, as a fan, to the people and times which influenced and pushed him to become a movie maker.
Abrams is a technically adept director, but in his imitation-is-flattery type of movie-making also lies his mediocrity as I was alluding to in the opening line. That lack of a cinematic identity has unfortunately and oftentimes marked him as a director for hire, as in this instance here, with Disney and Abrams's helming of "Star Wars" (and other projects as well).
And therein lies perhaps the greatest weakness with Abram's involvement in "Star Wars", this smattering of mediocrity. "The Force Awakens" for example, was a movie steeped in nostalgia, at some points so much so, that it felt less like a new beginning and more like a re-boot or remake of "A New Hope"...or even worse, a carbon copy. I'll be skipping "The Rise Of Skywalker".
15
@loco73 Exactly. I was so disappointed that so much of that movie seemed to be a rehash of what we had seen before.
4
@loco73, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I watched Force Awakens, and almost every scene feels like New Hope, except that the Rey character is a Luke in a female body. At least there's a reason why Luke was in the place where he was put in. Rey? I'm not even sure what her purpose in life is, as we're told that in Last Jedi that anyone can be a jedi. All told, we audience can totally ignore any and all story about Rey, because afterall, she's just not so special anyhow.
1
I am an uncritical lover of all the Star Wars movies. In a world that is full of disappointments and @real leaders who personify the Dark Side, I am happy to suspend my judgment briefly to believe that good will really triumph over evil one more time.
17
Archetypes matter! They are our software shortcuts to understand the world. The Last Jedi rejected them, ruining what made the films great; good vs evil, spiritualism vs materialism in a struggle for balance just like our society, kingship, monarchs, priesthood’s, the importance of ancestry and lineage and thus family, swords, but with lasers, the ability to manipulate our reality with our minds and so much more. The problem was not diverse characters or other, it was the rejection of what has worked for storytelling for centuries. Star Wars was about Catholic redemption, you can be redeemed even in the end. Also, how can you make Luke Skywalker lack hope? Dumb, maybe evil.
13
Star Wars has been a touchstone for my life. I hope this installment is worthy, unlike the prequels.
1
Hey, they’re fun kids movies, that’s your idea of life guidance?!
@LB well, they were very good kids movies, they made you dream about trying to bring good, protecting people, feel protected ourselves, see sense in the bad of every or many days, to feel that pain will be conquered. For some people without a lot of warmth at home and school SW was religion. I am also so thankfull i had SW in my life. dont minimalise it lol
Disney's Star Wars is just imitation Star Wars. Even the over appreciated Mandalorian is just a show about another Boba Fett and another Yoda who go to places already seen before.
At this point fans are happy if the imitation is very close to the originals and unhappy when it isn't.
14
Abrams was lazy and uncreative in writing The Force Awakens and basically just copied popular points from the first two original Star Wars movies...loner on a desert planet escapes to the big bad galaxy and discovers she has powers, lots of aliens in a cantina, superweapon that needs to be destroyed in an elite mission, discovery that supreme evil person is part of central father-son duo. Why be original when you can simply replicate what already worked?
And now he's worried about to wrap up all the loose ends he created?! Give me a break. Any decent storyteller knows how it will end before they write the first word. And Abrams writing The Force Awakens was not just beginning that movie but the whole trilogy. This does not inspire high hopes for a satisfying resolution.
10
@dan "Any decent storyteller knows how it will end before they write the first word."
If that's true, about half of the authors considered the "world's greatest" aren't decent authors. Do some reading about Charles Dickens' writing process or Mark Twain's. I've studied English literature and a theme I've encountered when reading about an author's process is that they often feel like "the story writes itself." They begin not entirely sure how the story will end and let that develop naturally as they write and get to know their characters.
1
It is endlessly entertaining to see how wound up people get about fiction stories. The only original 'Star Wars' was Star Wars, and even it was, in many ways, an homage to earlier films, starting in the first frame with the word crawl going off into the distance.
Even as creator George Lucas made the first two sequels and then later the three prequels, and then later the reworking of the original movies, fans (short for fanatics, you know) lined up to declare what they thought he'd done wrong. Now, they line up to declare what follows or fails to follow "Canon" in the current trilogy.
It's fiction, kids; there is no "Canon." In fact, you can't actually make the jump to light speed, and explosions in the vacuum of space do not make noise. These movies would be pretty boring if they adhered to the laws of physics, however, so "punch it, Chewie!" The story is whatever the writers decide. If the laws of physics don't apply, then neither does your opinion of what these characters would or wouldn't do. Just sit back and enjoy it. Or don't.
6
J.J Abrams is a hack. He only got the franchise because he steals from Spielberg so heavily, but he’s a terrible storyteller.
8
Abrams better fix it.
3
A modest correction: In Section IV, the article neglects to mention that Rogue One director Gareth Edwards was sidelined after principal photography; reshoots and rewrites went forward without him, resulting in a very different film. So, directors being pushed out is now very much "in the realm" of Star Wars.
2
Want to make audiences stand up and cheer like they did when I saw the original Star Wars? It's probably impossible to recapture that magic, that wonderment. But I can think of one way: Han Solo is still alive!
In one bold move Abrams redeems the questionable decisions of the sequel trilogy and saves the franchise in the eyes of the disillusioned fanbase.
This is my last hope.
2
I really enjoyed the last two films in the series (yeah I didn't need another death star but so it goes). The charm of the characters is hard to miss. The big question on my mind is can they pull off what "Rogue One" did, which in my opinion made the original Star Wars a better film.
9
The previous two movies in this new trilogy reanimated a moribund series, and I'm very much looking forward to how the writers, director, actors, producers, and crew pull off the finale. For those who forget, the first three films dealt with a murderous father intent on destroying the soul of his son, which gave them great dramatic heft. The middle three films were mostly silly.
4
“But that was why it felt worthy of saying yes.” Not to mention the paycheck.
3
I was incredibly disappointed with TFA and TLJ. My nerd rage is little abated by the admission in this article that the creators didn’t know what they were doing. That was clear. To take a cultural icon and gut it for cash and not tell a coherent story is appalling. I declare these movies non-canon tripe. The real Star Wars story survives in the Expanded Universe books and computer games that did manage to capture the magic of Star Wars without being stupid and derivative.
11
@Nathanael Horton I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, both TFA and TLJ were disappointments for me.
7
@Nathanael Horton
Absolutely, the EU continued the story in a way that didn't have to recycle the same villains and the same storylines. Very disappointed in the sequels.
1
Whatever highs and lows the sequel trilogy will leave behind, it can never undo or outrun its most basic failure:
They never got the old gang back together.
Yes, this needed to be a new canvas to paint new stories on.
Yes, this needed to focus on new characters.
Yes, a trilogy with only the old cast would have lacked imagination.
And--not "but," and--they could have answered all those mandates while giving us at least one taste of Luke, Han, Leia and Chewie all in the same place at the same time.
We waited more than 30 years to see what would become of our childhood movie "friends." Someone decided answering that question was a sin called "fan service."
They never got the old gang back together.
Against a failure like that, little else matters.
22
We need entertainment that will help us navigate the calamitous future that our species faces.
I had naively hoped that perhaps Star Wars #7 could have begun this process. The Return of the Jedi left us with the destruction of the Empire, a foundation for something imaginative and difficult.
What happens next amidst the fragments of an older order?
As it turns out, more of the same.
Maybe it is beyond the scope of Hollywood, but I am still waiting for that alternate universe that will help me better navigate this one.
5
@Sunjeev Bery The best science fiction creates an alternate universe that helps us better understand our own. Check out the new Watchmen series on HBO for a great example of this.
4
Will do! Thanks for the rec.
Of all the "Star Wars" movies and spinoffs and tie-ins out there, three films have really entertained me: "Star Wars," "The Empire Strikes Back," and "Rogue One." The last film, I felt, managed to thread the needle of being something that was respectful of the original story, but still managed to tell a different kind story in a different way.
The rest of the films don't do much for me. I applaud Lucas' prequels and Johnson's "Last Jedi" for at least trying to do something different, but the end results were underwhelming. "Solo" just felt like a bland brand extension exercise. "Force Awakens" felt like it was trying too hard to be another "New Hope," sort of like one of those 60's British blues bands that desperately tried to sound like Muddy Waters or B.B. King, before they found their own voice and started putting out more original music.
6
I just rewatched "The Force Awakens" and "The Last Jedi" and found them both more interesting than I did on my first viewing in the theater. They flow together and make for a very interesting contrast.
Although some of the flaws were still present I noticed that the stories didn't actually revolve around them and the charm of the characters kept me engaged.
The Last Jedi in particularly interesting. As a second act film it took the characters to some low places and gave them flaws that I needed to see. If we didn't see those flaws there would be nowhere to go in this final film.
8
Just how many light saber fights can anyone see before they become terminally boring. They should have stopped after the first trilogy ended. Everything after those 3 has been a disappointment. The last two were the worst. The next film is the first one I won’t bother to see in the theaters or probably Disney +. I would like to see a remake of Forbidden Planet. That would be worth waiting for.
3
Last Jedi was a low point for me and many friends. We hope JJ can turn that ship around, but many of us are currently tuned out to the trilogy.
Fun though to read comments here where our perspective is wholly dismissed misogyny or toxic. Or which even dismiss us as not true Star Wars fans (sorry gatekeeper, how many of the title scrolls can you recite?).
It's clear that it's possible to please almost all Star Wars fans. The Mandalorian has done that. And some of us will just keep watching that until we hear Episode 9 is worth our consideration (and hear from sources we trust, not just the reviewers who made TLJ critically acclaimed).
As a note, this is coming from someone who loved TFA and even Solo, so yeah, TLJ just did not sit right with some of us. With luck, JJ can retcon its mistakes and stick the landing, but that seems like a tall order for anyone. May the Force be with you JJ!
6
I have been profoundly bored by these films and will not be sad when this franchise is retired.
10
This article brings comfort to trepidatious fans who doubt Abrams ability to come in for a landing. Kennedy and Disney would never tolerate making a dud for the conclusion of Star Wars.
4
"Kennedy said she continued to discuss opportunities with other artists, and she pointed to the success of “The Mandalorian,” the live-action “Star Wars” series created by Jon Favreau for the Disney Plus streaming service, as a model for the future of the franchise. Shows like it could provide a pipeline for new stories and characters, as well as for writers and directors who could make the feature films."
This makes sense. Disney+ is basically a huge focus group for Disney now, where ideas and characters can be tried out and if the data says they're hitting big, then start cranking out the associated movies and merchandise and theme park rides...
I second the Go Poe series idea.
2
After the first three Star Wars movies it has been all downhill. I think Anthony Daniels sums up the problem: "One reason I liked the original was there weren’t that many characters,” he said. “You had the good guys, the bad guy, a few rocket ships and that was it, really. Then eventually we end up with hundreds of Jedi's with different colored light sabers and I lose track.”
11
@Steven Gordon - Good point. I call it the "est" problem, where which each subsequent event, whether a movie or a parade or or anything, the next has to be the b(est), the biggest, the greatest and on and on until no single ingredient is identifiable. Chef G says, "Take everything you have and put it all in the blender for 5 minutes on high speed and Voila. You have a bland lumpy (S)movie(th).
JJ is right, he can’t stick the landing. He’s a great idea guy, but not a good story teller.
7
@LegalEagle Plotting has never been his thing. He covers it up with his whole "mystery box" mystique. As in, "Isn't it cool to see things happen that must mean something, but you don't know what they mean yet?" The answer is yes... to a point. You eventually have to get somewhere. The riddles need answers. Otherwise it just becomes tedious.
4
Anyone thinking that die-hard fans nostalgically pined for what The Force Awakens and JJ Abrams gave us - another Death Star plot - had to have lacked a single creative bone in his body. But we were forewarned. Given Abrams' plot-by-the-numbers rehash of the Khan story in Star Trek's Into Darkness, we shouldn't have been surprised by his lack of originality. Abrams is responsible for putting the third trilogy on shaky ground. It took Rian Johnson to make true fans throw their arms up in disgust.
Setting aside the lack of overall story arc for the trilogy, my main criticism is that no time was invested in developing Rey. With Luke Skywalker we saw over three movies his transformation from disgruntled farm hand who never new his father into a powerful Jedi . We have no deep sense of Rey's history, what motivates her, why she has the abilities she has, and what work it's taken to discover and hone them.
Given the weaknesses of the first two of the trilogy - it's a fantasy to believe there's anything at stake with the final movie. Who cares?
24
@HC45701 so much this. Now in spite of all those flaws of TFA, I still enjoyed it, while the story had issues, the new characters were engaging and charismatic in a way that was true to the OT, it was enough 'Star Wars fun' to go see 9x even with those flaws.
However, in TLJ, even setting aside my objections to what RJ did to Luke, there is no growth of any individual character, and not a single relationship/dynamic from the first film's heroes moved forward in any way. Only Rey and Kylo were developed/explored. By separating the new big 3, TLJ wasted 2 hours of story/character development. Finn reverts to a bumbling coward, Poe is made into a joke and Rey nags Luke for half the film, and force facetimes with Kylo the rest. It's a shameful waste of story. Apologists praise it's 'originality' but all it does is belittle what came before and fail to advance characters in any meaningful way. That's not original or bold, it's just bad story telling.
That said, at least JJ loves Star Wars and will do everything he can to make E9 an emotionally satisfying conclusion, even if 7 & 8 handicap story options. The ST will always have an asterisk for fans like us at best (or ignored/rejected at worst) We'll get what we get, but it can't be as bad as TLJ. I trust JJ to make something that if anything, loves Star Wars too much.
After that, I just hope Disney/LFL have learned their lessons. Mando is a solid start. Kenobi will be the first real test.
MTFBWY
4
JJ Abrams is the epitome of a mediocre white guy who has been given way too many chances. He can create special effects, but he has no idea how to tell a story.
Star Wars belongs to the kids, the next generation of fans. They can tell if your movie has no heart. Don’t underestimate them.
7
@Cordelia Take away Abrams' idolization for and cheap imitations of Spielberg and what's left is a whiteish black hole.
4
@Cordelia I think the kids would call your hate of Mr. Abrams "savage." And I hate to break it to you, but Star Wars belongs to Disney. We are all just bystanders.
Watch or watch not.
1
Science-fiction fantasy? No, pure horror. A childish Hollywood franchise brought back from the dead by Disney corporate greed, amateurish auteurs, a constellation of PC multi-cultural faces, phony digital effects, and a robotic audience that has long lost the ability to see that the Force has long been a silly Farce.
7
Like many here, I thoroughly enjoyed the first Star Wars films. They were wonderfully engaging to my 20-something eyes. But I've not yet been able to get through more than one of the more recent films. Ugh. They just feel like unimaginative, too-teched-up, money-grabbing do-agains. ("Star Wars XXVI: Darth's First Cousin on His Mother's Side Seeks Payback")
I'm with an earlier commenter who said, "Come up with something new.". Hear, hear!
5
Right now, the best Star Wars property is The Mandalorian. Why? Jon Favreau. If only he had been in charge of this recent trilogy instead of Abrams who basically regurgitates original story lines.
Now if only Baby Yoda could make a surprise appearance in Rise of Skywalker ....
11
I became SICK of this star wars drek about 25 years ago.
ugh.
2
Disney has milked this cow to near exhaustion.
Time to get a new cow.
7
@Brad Unfortunately, Disney paid $4 billion for this cow, so there's a lot more milk to come.
1
@Brad
'Disney has milked this cow to near exhaustion.'
There is still a lot of blue milk to be drained from this space cow.
This article's spin makes my head spin, as others in agreement with me may also be commenting here. I've been following the "Fandom Menace" group of critics on YouTube. For someone aware of their very important critiques, spinning from the spin here is thus my reaction to this article. The way that the evidence for anticipated trouble with the production from fans, in their justifiable criticism, is so spun away here that it wouldn't even be noticed without watching and listening in to those YouTube people. The critics have declared that the evidence of validity of their points has come exactly by how the Episode IX has been going through a veritable scramble of so many changes. But in this article the defenders of the production keep up a modesty or faux reluctance worthy of the fig leaf, and make justifications for all their scrambling that attempt to normalize the process--nearly normalize, suspiciously. I'll be looking to those YouTubers for reactions to this article, as I might find something similar to my comment and those of some others here.
4
I'm pretty sure future business programs might use this whole Disney Sequel Trilogy as a case study on how NOT to realize the potential of a previously well loved media property.
As a lifelong Star Wars fans, one of the things I'll never understand is how they (and Kennedy in particular) could produce a new trilogy without having a more detailed plan of what how it was going to play out. Expectations were certainly subverted, and not in a good way.
10
@Miguel sanchez "I'm pretty sure future business programs might use this whole Disney Sequel Trilogy as a case study on how NOT to realize the potential of a previously well loved media property."
Well, seeing as Disney has already made billions of dollars off of these films, and making lots of money is usually what business is all about, they probably won't view these films quite the way you do.
2
Doesn’t matter how much money you make if you miss revenue forecasts, which they have
The whole Star Wars movie thing reminds me of the situation with Boeing airplanes. They went from empowering creativity and craft to obeying the mandates of Wall Street managers who apply their "business theories" to everything. Boeing can't make good, safe airplanes anymore and Hollywood can't make decent Star Wars movies (excepting Rogue One, which was a decent film). Everything about this article screams, "You've been warned!"
7
@Steve B. Yours is an interesting take on my impressions, as someone who also has been very critical. I thought the title of the article was going to be about the "battle" between the critics of how the Star Wars films have been turning out in the latest trilogy and it's producers. Nope! In my impression, the "battle" was a spin on the scramble to fix things (supposedly) properly. It conveyed the fixes being regardless of the critics, ignoring that those fixes could at least be partly in reaction to us critics--especially the main ones in YouTube. That very scramble has of course been seen by critics as actual evidence of the validity of their intense and wide criticisms of the previous episodes. But I now see something about you picking up on the article's handling of things as overall trying subtly to convey the same concerns to viewers in general--but it "screams" to us.
1
I just wanted to say, "Thank you, Carrie Fisher" for giving a 13-year old girl in 1976 the inspiration to be brave and a 55-year old woman in 2019 the courage to continue.
I'm looking forward to seeing how her character's story ends. I continue to grieve for her's having ended.
29
It’s hard to recreate the stunning impact Star Wars had in 1977. The effects were state of the art. And it was a great story that borrowed heavily from some classics (seven samari and the searchers).
Sure it had many elements for children. But what is wrong with that. Still get a rush seeing the new stuff.
6
One thing I'll never understand is how on the one hand JJ Abrams and the executives at Disney and Lucasfilm talk about how much respect they have for George Lucas's creations and how they want to honor them and yet in this new trilogy they turned Luke Skywalker into a broken man who gave up on everything, Han and Leia are divorced and their kid is a mass murderer, and all the successes the heroes achieved in the original movies has been completely undone and 36 years later we're narratively in the same place we were in with Return of the Jedi. Nothing has really moved forward narratively. In The Rise of Skywalker they're even facing off against the same Emperor from Return of the Jedi.
34
@Hank - " they turned Luke Skywalker into a broken man who gave up on everything, Han and Leia are divorced and their kid is a mass murderer,"
A synopsis that is pretty accurate and one that describes my disappointment. Why did they have to take the easy cynical approach? And didn't we go that route already with Anakin Skywalker? My feeling was, I waited 40 years for this?
I could allow myself to enjoy watching the movies and marvel and wonder at new things, but was all that necessary? Do we find out in the new movie if it was?
10
The only problem with the new Star Wars movies, to the extent there is one at all, is the internet. Toxic fanboys talked so much smack about the Last Jedi that you would think there is a unanimity of negative opinion about the movie, but in real life, most people seemed to enjoy it as much as the other films.
The internet lets the loudest, rudest people control the conversation, and creates a reputation that isn't based in reality.
Can't wait to see the new movie, I know JJ can pull it off.
15
While internet toxicity is a problem, and one not exclusive to Star Wars, let’s not lump all who have taken issue with the new films, The Last Jedi especially, with internet trolls.
Holding the view that the new films are imperfect, perhaps vastly so, is not an invalid opinion. As Abrams pointed out in the article regarding The Last Jedi, “it’s a bit of a meta approach to the story. I don’t think that people go to ‘Star Wars’ to be told, ‘This doesn’t matter.” And Boyega, in regards to the drastic change in direction from The Force Awakens to The Last Jedi, “Even as a normal person in the audience, I wanted to see where THAT story was going.”
The shrugging off of many of the storylines and characters of the previous episode in its penultimate successor of a beloved decades-old franchise was never going to sit well with many fans, And one does not need to be a misogynist or member of the alt-right to take issue with plot resolution consisting of a series of deus ex machinas, nor a story about failure fit for a children’s show, complete with an explanation of the moral from beloved Yoda at its end, just in case we missed it, that ends largely as did at its beginning.
8
@Todd "most people seemed to enjoy it as much as the other films" Is about as dishonest a statement I can think of.
5
Twenty-five years from now - folks will still delight in 'discovering' The Empire Strikes Back - no one will be watching "The Rise".
Disney seriously breaks - by mass commoditization - dumbing down and pandering - every nice thing it is presented with.
7
I have enjoyed the two films!
5
Star Wars franchise is the houseguest that outstayed the original welcome. It’s about cold calculated corporate ROI now, nothing more, nothing less. It was creatively spent before Disney took over, its creatively spent now.
Like Scorsese said, it’s just a theme park ride. Funny thing about rides: they are the same each time.
6
@Xoxarle unlike Scorcese's thousand and one mafia-themed movies, you mean?
5
@Angy Good point about Scorsese, I didn't even want to watch the end of "The irishman."
To underscore what others have said, Star Wars is just popcorn movies. Set your expectations accordingly.
5
I have enjoyed the two films in this trilogy so far, but I’ve definitely noticed the lack of creative cohesion and that looks like it may be even more present in IX. Why LucasFilm didn’t plan out the trilogy beforehand I don’t know, but a roadmap would have been a good idea
8
@Christian Le Breton That's the one point not addressed by this article. Was there really no three-movie story arc before they started filming? Did the really let Johnson write whatever he wanted, without any idea of how it fit into the bigger picture?
I don't believe it. I think the whole thing is a ruse, that they had a plan all along, and that they've duped us into thinking it isn't going to all tie together. If that's true, KK, JJ and the rest are even smarter than I thought.
@Todd I still think that the supposed cleverness actually comes across instead like someone holding out a chair for someone to sit and then yanking it away, for the sitter to fall dangerously to the floor.
lookat the number of director lay offs, this was very much not planned
After George Lucas- there's only one person responsible for the phenomenon known as Star Wars: composer John Williams.
33
@Dave S.
I would submit that the original concept art done by Ralph McQuarrie coupled with George Lucas leading a visionary rebirth in special effects with ILM was equally important.
6
I still remember how the audience gasped and cheered when the screen went white as Han and Chewie put the Falcon into hyper-space.
10
I am amazed by the negative comments in this article. I want to congratulate Kathleen Kennedy, J.J. and Ryan for having revived the franchise. Both veteran and new actors are a delight to watch. Overall you guys are making us dream again.!
Please ignore the trolls.
10
It's the word 'franchise' that bothers me.
It's an economic model, an investment vehicle, in Internet speak, a 'platform'. What is has only ocasionally been is good storytelling.
5
@John E Well, if they make money and we enjoy watching, it's a win-win, right?
As someone who was the right age for the original trilogy (7-13 yo) I implorer of you almost 50 year critics to remember...Star Wars is Star Wars...it didn't change...you did. You grew up and frankly got old. My son who is 8 now...loves, Kylo Ren and finds Darth Vader slow and boring. He loves Rey, Finn, and Poe...and didn't blink when Han Solo died, while I was on the edge of tears. Sorry Gen Xers (like me) these movies aren't for you. Now if you'll excuse me, I have go into my parents attic and find the rest of my Star Wars figures...and give them to my kid.
68
@JAA There may be some truth to this. There was a lot of talk about Star Wars being bad cinema when the original trilogy came out. There is a clip on youtube of Ted Koppel's Nightline with Siskel/Ebert arguing for the movies, and someone else arguing they were fluff...and that the youth deserved better.
Of course Siskel/Ebert were adults then, and I'm an adult now who is mostly enjoying the new stuff. (shrugs)
5
@JAA
A sober reply.
I wonder, there are adults now who were 7-13 years old when the prequels came out... where is their indignation at the Disney films? Kylo Ren is NO Anikan Skywalker. ; )
1
*breaks into enthusiastic applause, nods appreciatively*
1
I stood in line to see the original Star Wars release, since labeled as episode four, “ A New Hope”. I went to theaters to see “The Empire Strikes Back” and “Return of the Jedi”. After that, it was all wait for the video release. I liked “Rogue One” , but nothing in this newer series stands out like Darth Vader’s “I am your father.” moment. Three movies should have been the sum of this effort, as much as I like the new characters. It would have been better to start a new story line with them.
10
@HKS...”Rey, I am your mother.”
I recently let my 8 year old watch the first two Star Wars movies dating back to 1977 and 1980. He was hooked and we are still discussing the story and its characters almost daily, he has many questions. I'm moved that the movies that me and my friends loved as kids are still working for new generations. Star Wars is a fairy tale worth to be rewatched, retold and expanded.
14
I outgrew Star Wars after Return of the Jedi and I have not missed anything except mediocre films and mass marketing of tie-ins.
8
Here's the bottom line: the lack of a proper reunion of the original trilogy characters -- even to hand off to the new ones -- was both a narrative and financial disaster.
28
@Mark A "financial disaster"? The two most recent movies are in the Top 15 highest grossing movies of all time.
not sure about the financial disaster part but I definitely agree with you from a narrative standpoint
2
@r I recommended Mark but was also going to make the same reply as yours, so I recommended yours, too.
All across the world there are wonderful stories being told - through tabletop roleplaying, through webcomics, through indie authors. Almost all of these are more gripping and of better quality than what Disney Star Wars is and what Rise of Skywalker will be.
We've beaten past death the cultural icons of the 60s, 70s and 80s. Learn to let go. Find something new. Expand your horizons.
16
Let me preface by saying, I like movies with strong women characters, I even liked Jar Jar Binks ( think they should have made the rumor of him being the evil emperor come true), like Adam Driver's character, looked forward to Mark Hamil reprising his role. I love soap operas, in any shape and form, where there is a rule that you don't kill of the legacy characters, you embrace them and build on that. Disney doesn't respect any of these rules, they want the newest and youngest at the expense of legacy characters, and they want to push the story through emotion, and they want to sell toys and make dancing characters at their parks... I don't want to sit and cry in a movie theater, Disney makes you cry, I can look at my bills and cry... I want to be entertained. Another flaw would be to make a battle movie, where it's 10 percent story and 90% war, that's a cop-out , make a good story and if there's war make that secondary to the story...
12
@Missy There is no hero's journey for these characters. Rey may be on a quest, but compared to Luke's in the original trilogy -- which detailed conflict and setbacks and growth.
Luke Skywalker's father killed Luke's mentor and was more than eager to kill his son. Luke had to come to terms with who his father was.
Rey's is not a journey, it's a trip. She will come out at the end having never faced a test she could not handle with ease.
Who cares about characters like that.
16
@Mark
That's why Rey is known as a Mary Sue. She doesn't have to be strong, she is already perfect and without flaws.
7
@Missy
'Jar Jar Binks ( think they should have made the rumor of him being the evil emperor come true)'
Absolutely.
This should have rescued the entire series.
Based on the leaks coming from this film, I have no doubt it will be widely panned by the same people who hated Episode 8. That said, it will still most likely set multiple records and sell record numbers of toys, without offering much in the way of meaningful storytelling. Luckily for Disney the vast majority of people will be satisfied with a derivative light show.
9
These movies are the very definition of out of sight, out of mind. Get them poppin’ corns ready.
2
Star Wars is so 1970s. Come up with something new.
6
Here's my question: If the Star Wars franchise had opened with Episode 1 (i.e., the fourth entry in the series)- or any of the succeeding ones- would there have ever been an Episode 2? This enterprise (much like the Star Trek one) ran out of creative juice long ago and has been coasting along on our fond memories of Luke and Han Solo and Darth Vader. Can't wait to follow the adventures of the heroic offspring of Rey and Finn? Disappointed to learn that Jar Jar Binks becomes the new Dark Emperor? Try reading a good book.
3
The story, as I understand it, is Lucas took the entire 9 episode arc to the studio and they said we’ll let you make episode 4, as that has a good story. The rest is history. Lucas should never have looked back to his first 3 episodes. He thought he was the next Tolkien I guess, but he should have stuck with Saturday morning serial.
5
@stu freeman Maybe some young fresh blood instead of just boomers writing these stories and producing/directing these films...
1
@CB Evans
Of course, none in his right mind would claim that SW is hard SciFi. That's why I said that Lucas tried to make his universe "look" and "feel" real, and that he did.
Google Lucas "used future," and you will understand. In a nutshell, Lucas made the future look dirty and messy, and thus paved the way for much more cerebrate movies like Ridley's Alien and Bladerunner. That's really production design 101, but I understand that not everyone appreciates this when watching a movie.
My criticism of Johnson is not that of a fanboy - I am not - but that I find his fourth wall breaking, and constant quotations annoying. Yes, I get your references to Twelve O'Clock High and Casablanca, but please leave them out of my popcorn movies.
1
Star Wars is no longer relevant; stop making these movies.
7
The sad part is, it could be entirely relevant. With the rise of ultra-nationalist political parties and despotic leaders meddling in affairs beyond their borders on the one hand and the rag-tag group of young and multi-cultural progressives on the other, Star Wars could still quite easily be a metaphor for our times. In fact I thought that was exactly what they were aiming for with Force Awakens, but they messed it up by making the First Order too powerful, too quickly.
3
Star Wars under Disney has been a disaster. No long term planning, terrible screenwriting and over-reliance on nostalgia have buried this franchise in gaffs, missteps, and awkwardness. Disney has tried to shoehorn Star Wars into the comedic Marvel model and it fails as Star Wars was always a gritty space opera, not a glossy super hero flick. These films will be an epic study in film classes for years and years on 'what not to do'.
57
@Jeffrey K I think Rogue One is one of the best Star Wars movies to date, better than Episodes IV to VI even. The characters were more 3 dimensional (good people can do bad things during a war) and the writers weren't scared to kill off popular characters. Completing 10 suicide missions and surviving is statistically impossible, yet Luke Skywalker was somehow able to. Making a sacrifice for a larger cause is more human and relatible.
Looks like Disney is making more stand-alone movies, so I am happy if the quality matches Rogue One.
24
@James Considering None of the characters appear anywhere else in the franchise, didn't you see the 10 magical suicide missions coming? Also, if you just point to one meaningful choice the main character makes in the film, I'd be happy to review it; but unfortunately, she doesn't. She's just along for the ride as things keep happening to her. Not exactly compelling storytelling. Maybe watch the Red Letter Media review.
2
@Jeffrey K
Rogue One was the best SW since Empire Strikes Back.
The Mandalorian is very very well done so far, hoping they do not GOT the ending.
Solo was ok until half way it became 'Occupy Tatoine' with a robot calling for equal rights. It also tanked as fans did not like TLJ and did not go see Solo in protest.
So far anything which does not include hispter jedis and comical Jonnhy Boyega sidekicks seem to be much better than the megaplex fare.
8
I always find it amusing when people tell me that it was my youth at the time and my nostalgia now that makes me think A New Hope & Empire Strikes Back are great movies. I disagree. If it was youth and nostalgia I would no longer be transported by similar movies of today like Avatar, Serenity or the BSG mini-series.
Return of the Jedi was a warning that Lucas was not a gifted storyteller as we ended up with Ewoks and Deathstar round 2. The less said about the prequels the better. Nothing will redeem them.
Force Awakens seemed to be a return to the original magic, but was a bit too unimaginative in its Deathstar round 3 finale. Seriously?! The decent number of fun scenes in the episode redeemed, but it was not a solid win despite its mega-box-office take.
Last Jedi, though, what an unmitigated disaster of a story. Long, boring, nonsensical and ultimately pointless. An utter travesty that leaves me very much in a wait and see mode for the finale.
I don’t understand how this franchise could have gone so off the rails? James Bond has gone through a lot of changes, but for the most part kept it fresh and fun. I mean, Casino Royale, for example, is a masterpiece! But the writers never forgot what makes James Bond solid entertainment.
Sadly, the makers of Star Wars have thoroughly lost the plot! Perhaps they can redeem themselves, but JJ Abrams gives me little hope.
And cue Deathstar round 4!
36
One can't help but wonder what Lucas intended those final three stories to be and whether what we get is any worse or any better. And, is it truly "Star Wars" without Lucas?
One of my favorite Disney movies is a movie that features Disney himself: "Saving Mr. Banks".
Thinking of that movie it would seem that George Lucas received far different treatment from Bob Iger than P.L. Travers did from Walt himself and that there will be no "Saving Mr. Lucas".
1
Interesting to see them finally hint toward the problem of The Last Jedi... it broke the "brand promise" of Star Wars that there IS a story here, and there's a reason to pay attention to it. With Last Jedi--in itself a very well-made film--we found out that there is no story; they're just making it up as they go, making all of us chumps for thinking it mattered. I'll be very interested to see how they try to bring it all back on track.
13
I think it's fair to call it over. If they're going to make more movies, TV shows, books, and games, it's time for the sequel trilogy characters to stand on their own and to be joined by new ones. Besides, nine films over forty-two years is enough, and there are more than enough other things to watch, read, and listen to.
8
The Empire Strikes Back stands alone as a truly wonderful movie. I remember my brother and I returning to the theater time and time again to to relive the magic of this epic.
As for the other films in this series...
18
@RK hear hear. "Empire" has never been equaled, before or since...
1
With the exception of Driver - going above and beyond - a Dallas-dream reset would be a relief for many. In hindsight, I truly appreciate the charisma of the original troupe including many in the prequels, as well as Lucas' storytelling.
3
@David H The success of the original cast was no accident. Watching documentaries on the original trilogy, I came away with a renewed respect for Lucas based on the amount of effort he put into finding the right talent and developing the right chemistry. The amount of people he tested and the different combinations was monumental.
I say this to not diminish the current leads but the comments from Daniels about losing count of all the characters is telling — it’s like the old line about quarterbacks: if a coach says he has three quarterbacks, it means that he has none.
4
If there’s anyone I trust to end this series, it’s J.J. Abrams. He is an immensely talented director and visionary and the perfect choice to finish off the third trilogy. For the record, his ending to LOST was brilliant and criminally underrated.
6
“Do not assume anything Obi-Wan. Clear your mind must be if you are to discover the real villains behind this plot.“ – Yoda
First, there was Star Wars. There was and had been nothing like it. There could never be the impact of sitting in the theater when it first came out and having that movie just wash over you.
I've never forgotten Lucas's words delivered some time after Star Wars was a success. He says that Star Wars was intended to be part of something else never done before. A trilogy of three movies inside a greater trilogy of three and he was starting the story in the middle, going to the beginning with next three, and wrapping it up with the last three from the point of view of the droids. OK, great, but was it always that way or was that a result of the success of Star Wars?
After the Empire Strikes back we were left to wonder if Lucas really had a plan or was he making it up as he went? Was Darth Vader always planned to be Luke's father? Obi-Wan has to really twist some logic to explain that one.
After Return of the Jedi we wait. We wait. And we wait while the original 3 are released and re-released time after time in different formats. It looks like it will only be 3 movies.
With the release of the next trilogy Lucas now says it will be 6 films, and the story is about Anakin Skywalker. What?
And then he sells to Disney? I had hoped he left notes. The outline to be filled in. Was there ever a plan?
"You must unlearn what you have learned." - Yoda
12
@Marie
When Star Wars was appended with the subtitle of "Episode IV" it could have just been a little stroke of brilliance that added to the "old school sci-fi serial" aesthetic and the film's noted use of in media res. The original Star Wars has always been praised for the way it drops you directly into an existing story and world.
Whether you like the prequel trilogy or not, you have to admit that their indulgence and grand, epic tone tramples on the aesthetic of the films and changed. We do know that he had general outlines for other films. One of the early outlines was discussed in the Empire of Dreams documentary and it is clear that they have little to do with what eventually was released.
There is no way he knew about the twist of the twins given how the films set up a love triangle that went pretty far.
He only began writing the prequel films in 1994 after Bantam Spectra began releasing best-selling Star Wars novels and the tabletop roleplaying game from the late 80s had exploded in popularity.
All signs point to him not having as much of a plan as he would like his audience to believe.
So JJ Abrams is really the perfect person to succeed him.
3
@Marie
Lucas was always more interested in technology and special effect than the storytelling.
Star Wars: Episode IV was a great movie because of the pacing and easily accessible story.
When Lucas did the three prequels, his storytelling was ham fisted and tiresome. Well, what story he told.
I don't think he spent as much time as you think putting this 9 movie arc together. If he had, it wouldn't have taken him however many years to get around to Episode I. It's not like he didn't have the money or clout to get it made.
Apparently, however, Lucas did leave notes for Disney but they tossed them for some other stories.
1
@Marie - No question in my mind that a lot of things were made up "along the way." Unless the original plan was a rambling manifesto written by a mentally ill spider.
1
I find Star Wars films, and the whole story,to be really boring. I saw the first film in ‘78 or so, and never went back.
2
He ruined the character of Luke Skywalker. Unforgivable.
50
@Jennifer He being Rian Johnson. Yes, I can never forgive him. My blood boils whenever I think of him. And I am way too old to feel this way.
32
@Jennifer I never understood this view. Luke was weak (and failed) in the cave in Empire, and ever-so-briefly turned to the Dark Side in anger against his father in ROTJ, cutting off his hand in an act that was obviously symbolic (and pleased the Emperor so much he laughed out loud and ironically said, "Good! Good!"). Luke was always a complex character. Even Yoda and Obi-Wan's ghost were reticent about him. Johnson's use of that in TLJ was interesting and compelling.
6
@minkybear I feel your pain. I didn’t have any of the racist and sexist objections to The Last Jedi that made all the headlines. It was just disjointed and bad. Having spent way too much of my life enjoying the rewatching of Star Wars films, I could hardly believe that on my second trip to see The Last Jedi, I wanted to walk out because I was simply bored to death.
I was so disenchanted that I didn’t bother seeing Solo in the theater, waited for it to show up On Demand. I later read that Disney took the lackluster attendance for Solo to mean the single offshoot films were a bad idea. No, guys, wrong lesson learned. Rogue One and Solo were both great. The lesson is Rían Johnson. I’m sure he’s a decent fellow and the personal attacks were just as unforgivable as what he did to this movie. But I groaned reading in this article that he is working on future SW projects. Has he not done enough damage already?
5
Star Wars was one good movie. It was full of plot patches to stretch it into the first 3. It's really just a high tech 50's serial, there's nothing sacred about it.
I'll still watch whatever they pump out...
5
I remember watching Lost with my father, and in the middle an episode of season 2, he gets up and says - this is going nowhere. Took me 2 more years to agree, and reading about the finale that I could not be bothered to watch - it was confirmed.
What Disney has down is make the fanatical audience (I'm not one of them) not care about Star Wars. It will make money, but so does Fast and Furious.
36
@Tom Couldn't disagree more about "Lost". It was a complex show that required some education and an attention span. Many casual viewers were confused and didn't understand how, especially about the ending.
2
The biggest issue with Disney owned Star Wars is that they don't have Lucas. It's like hiring Elon Musk to design a Ford Mustang. The passion isn't there, it's just a job. Lucas, while not the best writer, had an amazing ability and attention to detail to create worlds and characters we've never seen before. To take us someplace new. Everything Disney has put out just looks like a rehash of some other Sci-Fi story or a dusted off prop from the originals.
38
@My
Well, Johnson did something new, because he is too much of an artist to stick to an established formula. Unfortunately, that doesn't work in a franchise like Star Wars, at least not with characters that have become cultural icons.
But I agree with your main point. Lucas should have told *his* story to an end, and then let others explore and create new stories in the galaxy far, far away.
I have not seen the Mandalorian, but it seems to be a hit. I think Disney would not have made any less money if they had let the Jedi return, and then moved on from beloved characters to different stories such as the Mandalorian.
4
@EBurgett Lucas great at stories but not scripts. He did not really write any after the first. Kasdan wrote the best - Empire. He also had treatments of the last 3 when he sold to Disney thinking they would use them. Disney dumped them all.
Wonder what they were??
12
@My - " amazing ability and attention to detail to create worlds and characters we've never seen before. "
To be fair, so did Disney. It was one reason for their success. Not always consistently and maybe not now, but Disney magic has most definitely taken us places and characters we've never seen before.
1
Johnson “meta-approach to story-telling” (Abrams’ words) ruined the Last Jedi for me. Not because Johnson systematically subverted fan expectations (again, Abrams’ words), but because he cared more about showing off his cineaste credentials than about making an immersive fantasy/sci fi movie.
Take the opening battle, which is an homage to “Twelve O’Clock High” (1949). Already Lucas was inspired by this movie. But he didn’t give us WWII-style bomb runs (and arching projectiles), because there is no gravity in space, and Lucas wanted his movies to feel and look real – which is why he came up with his groundbreaking “used future” look.
Johnson didn’t care about believability, because he wanted to be cool and risqué, which is fine in a movie like “Looper,” but not in a beloved and – by design – corny space opera franchise.
Abrams, on the other hand, brought too much Marvel into Star Wars. In the Force Awakens, the Force is a super power that is discovered by young heroes, who are tormented by adolescent insecurities and power fantasies – not a mystical force that is mastered by serene senseis, who are neither hot nor invincible.
I know I am in the minority here, but my favorite Disney Star Wars is Rogue One, which has a great female lead – and also a diverse cast.
151
@EBurgett Rogue One was fantastic. But I admit I totally fell for The Force Awakens too, because it gave me all the warm fuzzies and the goosebumps of the originals. The Rian Johnson abomination shall not be spoken of.
24
@EBurgett From a screenwriting standpoint, Rogue One is an epic failure. There isn't a single moment in the film in which the main character makes a meaningful choice. I laughed out loud in the theater when, for the last 15 minutes, we pan to each 'hero' and watch them miraculously 'do the thing' to get the message out, then die. All in glorious, American loving, slow motion with a bombastic score while explosions go off.
4
@EBurgett Totally agree on Rogue One being the best. It had a great diverse cast with great chemistry and the production design was the best since the first two original films.
Tragically the development chaos that for too long has been the accepted norm at Lucasfilm led the filmmakers to paint themselves into a corner and an ending that while appropriate and mature for a Star Wars film didn’t leave any room for a sequel.
6