Of course the Senate will not find him guilty. That is a good thing. First, when new things are discovered about this guy, which happens almost daily, it is the responsibility of the Senate Republicans, and believe me, the Democrats will make that loud and clear until election day. Second, Trump will interpret this as a personal victory and he will get more aggressive. Third, the would Impeached will remain a tag around his neck forever,
4
Listening to the hearings. The Republicans argue that The Courts not The Congress should decide what evidence: documents & witnesses The President must present to Congress. So again The GOP proves, it does not recognize The Constitution as written.
Ridiculous no. Unlawful yes!
8
Good point about impeachment being the best victory available for now. He will always have the stain of impeachment attached to his name, deservedly. But treason is the real crime. We all know it.
10
Every day I fell better that all this is coming out in public for all the world to witness.
Someday I hope this pathetic human learns that you cannot buy respect, you cannot demand respect, you actually have to earn it with your behavior and actions.
trump has zero respect among world leaders, who find him laughable at this point - along with Boris Johnson - and the majority of Americans loath him.
He will go down as one of the very worst presidents in our history.... all brought on by his own behavior.
NO BLAME of anyone else.... JUST SHAME !
11
Impeachment is the victory! The Vietnam War draft dodger got caught, pure and simple! The Republican Party will not convict one of their own. So be it. But impeachment is eternal, and is not expungable. Period. Final. Absolute. The extremely ridiculous proposed amendments fair no better and are defeated as expected. The GOP sinks to numerous new lows here, including Jordan's proposal to strike Article I as somehow untruthful. Gaetz's diatribe maligning Hunter Biden by reading into the record about his controlled substance abuse takes the cake! Gaetz and the Republicans therefore should not take offense when Democrats dredge up past ills and publicize it! Of course, the Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall episodes, and the Billy Bush bus tour is the tops, so no surprise. Bring these two women as witnesses to the Senate trial! Let the good times roll! More striking, though, is the underlying multifaceted dimensional aspect of race coursing through these hearings. The Democrats on the panel reflect multi racial and ethnic diversity, open mindedness, and endeavouring to promote equal recognition and protection. The Republicans on the panel reflect the searing image of preserving Caucasian, white skin privilege, protecting a way of life they contend is under siege, that America is allegedly being invaded by dark complexioned individuals, and stoking anti immigrant xenophobic fear. The obvious difference between the party of LBJ and the party of Lincoln is clear. Yes. Race matters.
9
Great writing, Mr. Blow! Don't forget that every one of us can call any office of any congressional "representative" and let them know it's NOT okay that Trump is taking orders from Putin, it's NOT okay that there are 150+ references to Russians/Trump in the Mueller Report, it's NOT okay that we're all wondering what THEY - the Republican senators and reps - are getting from siding with the Russians (by supporting Trump). McConnell and Grassley are my favorites to call, but Matt Gaetz is pulling my chain lately. In this respect, we have an advantage over the Germans when Hitler was on the rampage in the 1930s...
9
I thought it was pretty disgraceful the way that Reps like Chabot of Ohio (R) was giving the Mussolini made "the trains run on time" defense for why Trump shouldn't be impeached. Allegedly he's done such a great job with the economy that his successive criminality should be overlooked. Does anyone really believe that if Trump was replaced by their twenty year old niece or nephew that things would change in the short run? His touted tax plan just put a lot of money into rich persons coffers and allowed rich corporations to buy back their own stock while creating a whole in the budget the size of the Grand Canyon. No, Trump hasn't done anything great as President, but if you think that good performance means that your are beyond the law than Republicans are certainly taking us into the realm of dictatorship.
4
As a well-known Trump disliker and highly regarded Constitutional scholar Alan Dershowitz eloquently explained yesterday, the process that this House has engaged in is unsupported by the Constitution and any impeachment will be void by default.
It should be dead on arrival in the Senate.
6
Alan Dershowitz also believes that Jeffrey Epstein was innocent. Hard to believe.
7
Yes I agree Charles. This whole thing has become OJ the sequel. Everyone knows Dotard Don is as guilty as sin, but a jury doesn't have to convict, even when the evidence against the accused is overwhelming. There was another reminder today w/ stories out that Dersh will be added to the defense legal team. Hope Roberts doesn't do a reprise of Ito, but that's what I expect.
5
Perhaps one of the operative words here is 'precedent' What legacy are we leaving the generations to come? The energy and 'lock in step' attitude of Republicans reminds me, (as a 91 year old) what I witnessed with the rise of Hitler and the Pied Piper following of the Germans. The Jews were their target, the Democrats are the Republican target. What's the difference? History does indeed repeat.
60
Impeachment is not enough. But it may be all we can get ... for now.
The Blue Wave of 2018 and the recent elections in Kentucky, Louisiana, and Virginia show that massive turnout can overcome even the most corrupt attempts to subvert democracy.
The Republican Party, of course, doesn't care about democracy or rule of law, or any kind of commonsense ethics, and it must be voted out of existence. They are perfectly happy to see a government by the people perish from the earth and be flushed down a gold-plated toilet. We are at a serious crisis point and we need to fight against this menace with everything we've got.
So. Please be sure you are registered to vote. And if you know someone who is not, please help get that person to the polls in November of 2020. You can register to vote online in 33 states and can register by regular mail using a downloadable form in 14 other states. You, or someone you know, can use this link to get registered: https://vote.gov
7
Is anyone noticing how - John Bolton has written a book about The White House - BUT - refuses to testifies in the Impeachment hearings?
4
I agree with Mr. Blow that history will not be kind to Trump. And I believe that impeachment is absolutely the right thing to do.
That said, these kinds of debates are tantamount to arguing about the deck chairs on the Titanic. The real question is - what are we going to do when this Republican Senate lets Trump walk away from criminal conduct that can only be described as breathtaking?
Sit back and hope we may get rid of Trump in 2020? Remain as passive as we have been these past three years? The few rallies have been media events. Protest has not been sustained. It is as if the majority of us believe that someon is going to rescue us, still. News flash - it's not gonna happen.
And Trump will take his "exoneration" as a license to commit even more extreme acts. Perhaps expanding the internment camps to include those of us who are brown-skinned citizens might be next - given the Hispanic children in camps now, acts like this are certainly not off the table.
The fact is, we are in uncharted territory. We have a "president" who should be removed from office, but won't be, because he has a large, rabid, heavily armed base in lockstep with him. They will literally do anything Trump asks of them, including committing acts of violence.
From our response it appears that we're content to believe we will rid ourselves of this tyrant through an election. This is naive in the extreme. Understand this - Trump will only leave a time of his choosing, and not a day sooner.
4
My wish is to have him impeached - but removed by Article 25.
10
History will record the undisputed facts, and the rantings of Jim Jordan.
Trumps supporters will end up looking pretty bad. When I see photos of the a woman screaming at the Black girl who was breaking the Little Rock school segregation policy, I wonder how her family remembers her.
9
I was watching the hearings and thought , this is exhausting. Went to my computer for a break. What does Charles M Blow have to say - typed in Chalres M Blow twitter ( i don't use twitter, sorry). What do I see posted 1 minute ago - these hearings are exhausting. That gavel hits the desk - soul auction. Must get back to the hearings...
1
You actually think Pence HAS a soul?!
6
"Donald Trump and his supporters need to know that you can be punished for your actions."
And he is all but assured to not be punished as all and to get re-elected at this point. And Democrats will be punished for their actions.
What happened to all those criminal charges? Bribery? Treason? There were EIGHT criminal charges he was facing. And they aren't even mentioned in the articles. Funny isn't it? Why? Because they know they don't have anything illegal he did. And they are trying to save their majority, which is becoming more and more in doubt.
Oh, yesterday a new national poll had Trump beating every Democratic candidate in both Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. So yeah, look forward for another four years of the Trump train steamrolling delusional Democrats!
2
My sincere hope is Americans vote next November.
This whole circus is embarrassing.
3
This is what losers do --- they walk around proclaiming victory yet they've done nothing to win any bipartisan support, convince indies, it's nothing but opposition research on the tax payer's dime -- and they've found nothing.
4
What's going to be funny is that both the impeachment and the Senate trial will end up being bipartisan. There will be dems that vote no on impeachment, just like there will likely be some republicans that vote yes in the Senate. Unfortunately, all votes will be cast for one of two reasons, neither of which are the right reasons. The first motivation behind the upcoming votes will be political (party alignment or position protection). The second will be personal popularity (they either like Trump or they hate Trump). As to the "sham" in the senate, it is likely to be far less of a sham than what we saw or didn't see in the house. The senate is designed to be a trial with established rules (for the most part). The democrats in the house created rules as they went and are attempting (will be successful) to impeach a sitting president, not because he broke the law (no high crimes or misdemeanors), but because they can't wait until November for the voters to take him out - those are their words, not mine. People cry about Trump and his admin being a three-ring circus, the House is more like a poorly constructed comedy show that hasn't figured out no one is laughing.
1
History will properly record that patriots in the Democratic Party stood up to defend our democracy, the republic, and the constitution against this corrupt authoritarian. While Republicans, almost without exception, according to the logic of their flimsy arguments against impeachment and removal endorsed an absolute monarchy or dictatorship as long as it’s their man.
Impeachment is a victory and a significant one that will forever provide a starting point for the study of President Trump’s many criminal and corrupt acts as president. The magnitude of his malign intent, his alliance with Russian authoritarians, and other crimes will fill volumes for future generations to consider. But only if our democratic republic isn’t completely eroded by Republicans between now and 2024.
5
@William Newbill
Actually, history is far more likely to record that these feckless posers lost to Trump twice, largely because of their inability/refusal to challenge him him politically and actually stand for something other than "We're not him!"
2
Exactly.
Regardless of anything else, confront wrongdoers forcefully to deter any and all others. Even that won't be enough in this case, so don't stop even if he wins a second term. Impeach again.
1
Yes, I concur. If he is re-elected by the electoral college he must be impeached a second time if we still have the House.
3
Maybe you wouldn’t commit a crime for fear of being caught and suffering the punishment. But plenty of people can’t within themselves get from One (contemplating the crime to achieve their own ends) to Two (getting caught) to Three (being punished). These people are psychopaths, and depending on the nature of their malfeasance, sociopaths. They are not constrained from crime because it’s wrong, because they believe they may be caught, or because they don’t believe they will be punished. Sound like anyone you’d be happier not to recognize?
I agree and thank you for the article. it has been my personal belief that the Senate would not uphold their sacred duty. It is an honor to serve these United States of America in the Armed Forces or as a duly elected official. 45 is neither duly elected or honorable. One republican congressman stated that 45 was elected by 63 million people, sadly he failed to mention that 66 million voted against him.
45 is a lawless president and is truly not a leader of or for this country. If one cared about the Nation or democracy, he/she would leave with decency. Impeachment and removal is the only remedy for election interference and bribery for personal gain. If 45 knew of any conspiracy of the Former Administration he would have use it as a rally cry at his so called gatherings along with the birther issue.
Our elections are at risk. Our Democracy is at risk. 45 should not benefit in not way. 45 deserves a prison sentence along with his other cronies and enablers. The United States of America deserves better. Our democracy is a shining example for the rest of the world.
Thank you for the article and I believe in our democracy. I just wish the senate (gop) would remember this and the fact "66 million Americans voted against 45.
4
Thank you for reminding us that the Senate has NEVER voted to convict an impeached president. That helps. I hope the Democratic nominee will win in 2020, but failing that, I'd be fine with taking back the Senate in 2020, at which point the House can impeach him again (they'll never run out of material) and a Democratic Senate can finally oust him.
4
Yes. This is the best we can do with the lemmings that are the Republican Party.
2
So when Dem leadership fails, move the goal posts. Got it.
3
More nightmarish yet,Mr Blow: Even if Trump loses next November, he will not leave office. He cannot be a LOSER. His ego will not permit that. Then what?
4
It’s not only Trump’s outsized ego; if he is out of office, he has to face the law just like the rest of us... unless Barr arranges for special dispensation from the Holy See. As Christmas approaches, we are confronted with the dilemma of what to give the man who has everything but still wants more. My suggestions: a cake with a file or a straight jacket, two practical gift ideas.
2
In this terrible situation our country finds itself in, it works to our benefit to impeach Trump in the House and just let Republicans go down as his corrupt lackeys. The Congressional Republicans have shown themselves to be both spineless and stupid-- If just a few of them would find the courage to band together and speak out, their ranks would quickly swell and they'd easily take this loser down, saving both their party and their souls. And a President Pence would be way more effective for them--it's quite clear he's willing to do or say anything he's told. I am almost thankful for their lack of conviction.
2
Could we also please impeach anyone in Congress who votes against impeaching Trump?
4
Mr. Blow,
This gospel of a column gets an "Amen..Amen...Amen...praise the Lord!" from me, and I'm agnostic. Pass the basket; I'm ready to witness.
Perfect antidote to little Jared's column today.
4
The local, state and federal criminal justice systems investigate crimes on a daily basis, and those investigations often result in the felons, cheaters, law-breakers etc. going off to prison.
Mr. Trump is a criminal; he routinely lies about it. Republicans who fail to vote for his removal from office are nothing more than doormats from a criminal.
3
I agree: Impeachment in the House is the rebuke. That's enough for me. I don't want the Senate to impeach Trump--I think that's a guarantee of a Pence presidency. Then we'll get 5 years with a self-righteous fundamentalist who hides his white supremacist tribalism ten times better.
3
oh, Blow, impeachment in the House now is good enough?
you already lower the bar? spin, baby spin.
I do hate Trump but I love rule of law.
this is a sad time for the constitution and national interest. The democrats abuse of power is appalling.
7
I sincerely always support truth, justice and respect for all of life. That said, I am not a christian nor do I follow any religion other than be inspired by humanist. If you narrow it down to just two types of people you find those that hate and those who embrace freedom, integrity and love for all of life. Trump is the symptom of decades of suppression and false beliefs, false gods and false cults. Trump is not alone in this mess, there is Barr and McConnell who have total control of the executive branch --- Congress falls below that however, they had every right to follow through with impeachment inquiry and hearings. Many people "under oath" gave testimony regarding overwhelming evidence. Is that enough to remove Trump? No! Because the senate (executive branch) will probably decided that Trump will not be removed from office. That is the predicament we are in, a symptom of decades of false beliefs, false gods and false cults. We all stand at the crossroads 2020, "we the people" must decide (vote) as to which path to continue (1) division or (2) united. We can no longer take the path of cults infused with politics! We must instead chose freedom, integrity, justice and respect for all of life. The United States should stand proud of being a highly diverse nation of many types of people with origins from many parts of our world, from Africa, Middle East and Europe! We should all love and be loved as united as one of the same. We must all stand "United" Imagine - John Lennon
That’s setting the bar for “victory” very, very low. Trump and his Republican boot-lickers will turn his acquittal into the real victory and use it to rally supporters as the country moves towards the election.
Correction: Mike and Karen Pence literally invited Trump to the Governors mansion and begged him to buy their souls.
1
Mr. Blow: I see it as a Pyrrhic victory, with the country's demise in the balance. But you're right-- We Democrats have tried to enforce Truth and Justice, which many prison inmates do not get. These GOP people backing this monster won't give up the ghost until their wallets are empty and the country is in shambles. Also, the GOP congress are not #45's cherubim, but the other metaphor, his demonic assistants. If the Satanic entity wins a second term, there may be a lot more Damoclean swords falling on a lot of GOP heads....
I do wish this newspaper’s writers and editors would stop thinking about “History.” Suppose Trumpism takes over the world and History records him as The Great Founder. What then? I don’t need an imaginary utopian future to condition my judgment. One of the reasons The Times embraces “woke” leftists is because its honchos think that History will record that they were at the forefront of necessary social change—much like the civil rights leaders of bygone days.
Lots of people critique the idea of being on the “right side of History,” but I’ve begun thinking it’s actually dangerous. Mr. Trump and his supporters are despicable. So? I’m not going to pretend human “progress” is destined, that it is written in the Book of Fate that tomorrow will be better than today. To assume your judgements will be those of some far future is ignorant, is arrogant, is pointless.
Let us suppose the future, or History, if you prefer, finds us ALL to be benighted for reasons we don’t yet see. So what? Just as we’re worse than many past cultures in many ways, so too will the future be worse than us in others. Apart from existential concerns, what matters is our own lives and the immediate horizon and that we do the best we can by our lights. And the Devil take History. Down with this idea of the Forces of Light (progressives) versus the Forces of Darkness (conservatives).
1
Dear Charles M. Blow,
Excellent logical analysis!
What a pleasure to read your words!
Now I'm very afraid of what will come in 2020 because tRump is now an embolden cornered rat and we may suffer greatly especially because we have so many MAGA brain types. They cannot find their way out of the maze they do not even know exists. They are hypnotized by FOX NOTnews into maintaining their alternate universe world view.
1
Yep. Just like indictment is the victory for the DA.
1
Charles; ..."Impeachment in the House is the victory."...
Please let me know how this can be if we no longer have a Democracy in 2020 and in #45 is still crook-in-charge in January 2021?
Its impressive that democrats can prosecute both this impeachment and the War on Christmas at the same time
:-)
4
A hollow "victory" based on a dislike of Trump and no REAL crimes.
This are the weakest reasons for any impeachment ever.
3
Just finished listening to all of the remarks made by the House Judiciary Committee members, which revealed much about the character of each in the words they chose to present in opening remarks. Back and forth, from Democrat to Republican, silence supported the single voice. We hope everyone will take the time to review these steps being taken to stop the lawlessness, the cruelty, the stupidity, all soul-less actions being taken by skewed ideals seen through a filter established by ill-suited abilities. Godspeed Mr. Nadler.
3
It is a source of shame Trump holds the title of President. With the world watching the conduct of the Republicans on the Committees, it has been revealed half of the American Congress is filled ignorant, uncouth, self serving, intellectually compromised men and women. They show so little respect for their constituents, in front of cameras, they deny the facts they possess of the crimes committed. As a nation we deserve better. Furthermore the charade the Republicans have chosen contributes to the stability of National Security, idealogues rule us. Their personal grasp for power is predominate, not their country.
2
You only say this because you and we know that he'll never be convicted in the senate.
Get a victory however you can.
Trump is a traitor, conspiring with Putin to advance Ruusia’s interests.
Impeach now, but keep investigating.
Keep digging: the money laundering, the oligarchs, the translator’s missing notes, Jared’s back channels, the $400 Moscow Trump Tower deal, the tax returns, Deutsche Bank.
If there is anything we learned from the Mueller Report, it’s that as soon as Trump thinks he got away with something, (and he will call the Senate’s lack of conviction “total and complete exoneration,” again), he will be emboldened to do worse.
He will get worse.
I’d stay away from 5th Avenue.
3
So sad to say that this impeachment will only be a Pyrrhic victory. The only real victory will be to VOTE trump and his evil ilk out of office in 2020.
2
There's no need to forcibly remove Trump. Simply declare the White House a Federal Penitentiary. It's already got gates and guards. Build a new residence for the next President.
1
Please. Its all a waste of time. And if it's 'punishment', it's a punishment without consequences.
2
You are taking this out of context. We may soon see Trump's tax returns and may well have a ruling or no ruling from the Supreme Court which puts the law above Trump. In which case impeachment is only the first domino to fall. Impeachment, tax returns, witnesses, documents, so forth and so on. Death by a thousand cuts. Trump is insanely vulnerable and even the Republicans can't win at wack a mole.
1
What you're experiencing with Trump is the nefarious power of hate speech exploited by a demagogue with autocratic tendencies
1
Thank you!
Makes sense now
Never Again!
1
Pyrrhus won victories too. Democrats may be headed for the same result.
2
Sadly, these Trump Americans enthusiastically voted for him. Have you seen these people at his rallys? So scary and foretelling of 2020. Who can beat this monster that people idolize?
1
Enjoy your victory, Mr. Blow, but you and the Democrats did not win the movement to remove Trump form office that started the day he was elected. All the secretive meetings and plans failed. Congratulations.
2
I thank you for making this positive outlook. I'd rather live with the consequences of doing the right thing and having it not work out than doing the wrong thing (as apparently some would) or doing nothing.
Where some are speculating that our president could turn the situation that the Senate does not vote to convict (is that the correct term) after the House votes to impeach, to benefit him, or if convicted and removed then the advent of Pence; it reminds me of a dark joke.
Real quick- Three guys in front of a firing squad, asked if they want a blindfold. Guy 1 & 2 say, "Yes." #3 says, "No." #2 pokes him in the ribs and says, "Don't cause trouble."
If doing the right thing is trouble, we're in trouble.
Thank you for writing this and saying this. Amen!
Impeachment in the House is only the beginning...
I think I speak for the rest of the civilized world when I say that if Americans want Trump next November, they can have him. Just spare us your anguish when you realize too late what he and his sychophants did to the Constitution.
How silly, and obviously biased politically, to say that the "Senate is a Lost Cause" while lauding the House ..... for voting along Party Lines!
Nobody is really taken in by such rudimentary analysis.
3
Somehow I don’t think the impeachment of Donald Trump wil do much to salve the souls of those innocents doing time.
Since he won’t be convicted and removed he’ll be just another rich white man who gets indicted but deals for no prison time and not even probation.
Even if he is not re-elected he’ll simply retire to Mar a Lago which isn’t exactly house arrest. He won’t even have to do community service other than to feed off his rabid base and profit from paid appearances and ghost written books whose theme will be “poor me; look how badly I’ve been treated”.
No, Mr. Blow, although impeachment will likely rankle him, being ignorant of history he will likely shrug off the ignominy of it all and console himself with the the idea that the Senate stood behind him and that minority of Democratic Senators were all traitors anyway.
No it will be up to us, the sane people of the Republic, to ever and always remind him that impeachment alone makes him a loser, the worst thing one can be in Trumpworld, but it won’t ring true unless we defeat him in the 2020 election.
So let’s all get behind whoever the Democrats nominate and make Trump a one term tragedy.
Dump Trump 2020
Giving up to easy. It’s time to go continually expose the other republicans for what they are: small people hiding behind distorted principles for power. Free speech is not free. So American to think it is.
No principles leads to Newt Gingrich, Dick Cheney etc. And a bevy of liars, cheats and courtiers to to war.
By the by kids, it’s disingenuous to hear this ‘the Russians intervened’ when you and your intelligence and military are constantly carrying out coups and interfering in the politics of other nations.
Totally on board, impeach the lying phony businessman that represents you even though he is a perfect representation of your economic system: greed, ignorance and no memory, but open for bid’ness.
So, so very sad.
The Republican response to trump's crimes and corruption prove one thing, the GOP has ceased to exist as a political party, it is a cult.
2
A point here ... don the con didn't conquer the con party on his own. He had help, lots of help, from many sources. Faux, Sinclair, and many others in the radical right media sphere have been prepping the base for decades. This is a mutually beneficial arrangement - they prop up dump and support and amplify his lies, and he gives them a locked in audience.
Charles days: “These people [the GOP] are now devoted to Trump, lost in his lies. Trumpism is their religion and Trump is their God.”
Charles is mistaken about the GOP, which is not confused by lies and nor victims of Trumpian idolatry. The GOP is not composed of folks capable of anything larger than venal subservience to their billionaire bosses who pull their strings,
This wealthy cabal controls almost half the electorate through a propaganda apparatus not seen since WW II, and the GOP is now part of this brainwashing machine preventing common sense legislation on almost every subject. The objective is chaos to be exploited by the billionaires as they see fit.
3
Although President Trump had at least some ear for the social and economic anxiety of some voters, his campaign was based on hate and lies. And his comments that he would not necessarily abide by the election results added a clear threat of violence. Then throw in his immorality, corription, unexplained admiration of Putin lack of understanding of the Constitution or of governing and numerous other deficiencies and you have a very serious problem.
Some of his congressional backers say we wanted impeachment.
The truth is we were simply expecting it.
While the term, "Hobson's Choice" means choosing what's available, or not.
But, even though it isn't quite what it means, I have also heard it used (in a given context), to describe having to decide on two equally bad options.
Which brings me to my point; Trump, or Pence?
Now, for arguments sake, on the one hand, a President Pence, could wreak even more Conservative havoc, with Mc Connell more than willing to rubber stamp practically anything that Pence will sign into law.
But, on the other hand, Pence would suffer one of the worst landslide defeats by a POTUS; which could also send McConnell and all the other Republican sycophants, handmaidens, lackeys and hacks up for reelection packing.
McConnell is actually considering an immediate Senate vote to acquit Trump, after opening arguments in the Senate trial, and before any witnesses are called.
The Republicans don't want to hear any evidence. They have their minds made up already. They don't care about the law or the Constitution.
Voters should vote out every single Republican in 2020. The GOP is no longer the party of Lincoln. The GOP is now the party of Putin, and his enabler, Trump.
"Do you really want a President Mike Pence"
Mike Pence does not have the pull and cult like loyalty that Trump has with core Republican voters. So the answer to that is a resounding YES.
Impeachment of Trump by the House of Representatives is also a tacit but clear impeachment of the Republican Party. The highest ranking members of Trump's administration, along with Republican leaders in the House and Senate, have all actively participated in or willfully ignored Trump's treasonous and criminal behavior. Senate Republicans have a choice: they can convict Trump, or they can convict themselves.
Perhaps a failure to convict in the Senate will also be a victory of sorts in that the GOP will go down in history as accessories to his crime as they should.
I don't think most people will believe this.
1
I'm afraid this is already lost. All of the hard work will be swept under the rug in the Senate. Come to think of it that's exactly what happened during Iran Contra, lots of people who should have gone to jail didn't and are still ruining our country... Trump will be arrested at some point after he leaves office, but it's AG Barr that should be impeached/ jailed right now, and make sure he can never ruin our country again.
If only it were so (impeachment being a victory). Maybe in another century and a half Donald Trump will be remembered only for having been impeached. However, it's the here and now that is so discouraging and disheartening....and being "exonerated" by the Senate will only embolden him. If he has no restraint now, just imagine what he could unleash after the Senate votes. We could have to live with this for another 5 years.
He is as incapable of embarrassment as he is of principled behavior.
We have watched Mitch McConnell turn the Senate into Trump's rubber stamp and I doubt we will see any changes with an impeachment trial. but,there is one gift, the obedient Senate cannot give him.
Forever, in history books, it will be written that Donald J. Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives for Obstruction of Congress and Abuse of power. Let that simmer in his brain for the rest of his life. History is now recording his corruption and one legislative body refused to ignore or endorse his lack of respect for his oath of office and his bullying of a small war torn country.
Merry Christmas, Trump. for some of us, knowing that our kids and grandkids will read about this is a wonderful gift to American honor...Merry Christmas, Mitch McConnell your obedience and failures will, indeed be your historical legacy too.
Impeachment is going to set off a cascade of other investigations.
He’s worth it.
Mr. Blow is right. This is because there are some things we can change, and some things we cannot change. It is wise to define victory in terms of what we can change.
If the Democrats in the House, upon regarding the Republican-controlled Senate, were to give up, and not impeach (when the President has clearly and egregiously committed impeachable acts, which is the case here), _that_ would be a Failure. The mere threat of losing would have made them not even try. That is a Failure.
The Democrats in the House, when they do impeach the President, will have done their duty to the Law and to the People. That is what they have control over and so they should regard that as their Victory.
Then the matter proceeding through the Senate will help clarify just what Senators are made of. It will also help clarify what the Republican Party is or isn't good for. If the Republican Senators really are such worthless toadies as we suspect they are, then make them show it writ large so everyone can see the truth of it. That's what the Senate trial will be good for, most likely.
And there is always a chance that the Senate Republicans may surprise us and do the right thing (convicting Trump). After all, the case against Trump gets stronger all the time as more facts come to light. These Senate Republicans are human beings and do have the capacity to do such things, and, despite appearances, every one of them has some kind of conscience inside, however strong or weak it may be.
What happened to the bribery and extortion claims the Democrats were touting? Those were impeachable offenses. Seems they admit they couldn’t prove them. They watered it down to abuse of power and obstruction. Hardly high crimes. There is no legal definition of abuse of power. And the Democrats have even dropped the claims of quid pro quo, so where is the abuse? Obstruction? Because he refused to participate in the hearings? The Democrats could easily have taken the issue to SCOTUS but were afraid that would fail. Blow is wrong in thinking Republicans and Trump will be embarrassed by an impeachment that doesn’t even have support from all Democrats and no support from Republicans. It will be a major embarrassment for Democrats and the liberal media when it goes to the Senate.
2
A well written piece, expressing an unfortunate truth - as are the articles of impeachment.
This is the strongest form of censure possible in the present state of affairs today. The house represents the people and with impeachment the people speak. The Pubs talk about letting elections determine our course and the election of 2018 gave the people the power. I just hope the Dems won't rest on this statement of guilt. Wave this flag of guilt all the way to Nov 2020 and make the border of this flag out of all the names of all the Pubs that shirked their duty.
I agree Charles. I take solace in the fact that this Congress did their constitutional duty and held this rogue President to accounts unlike the cowardly GOP before them. I also take solace in the fact that the Trump legacy will be forever soiled by impeachment and the Trump name is ruined. I do feel badly for his youngest son though.
THIS. Perfectly captures my view of the situation.
Thank you for putting the affair in proper historical perspective so succinctly, even eloquently.
Now we have to remain vigilant to keep our democracy intact until we can remove this national-disaster-of-a-president at the ballot box.
If (God help us) we can.
The word "impeachment" will forever be associated with the Republican party and their leaders, not just with Donald J. Trump when his shameful legacy is written about in the history books of our grandchildren and great grandchildren. Their complicit role in propping up this authoritarian president will never be forgotten for generations to come. As such, impeachment will indeed be a "victory" for the Democrats and the majority of Americans who do not support Trump even if he is not convicted by the Republican controlled Senate. The indelible chapters of those books will forever document that justice was rightly served by tbe "victory" of the Democrats through the constitutional process of impeachment and also show by association the beginning of the decline of the Republican party.
1
Agreed that the Senate is likely to convict. But Trump is just as likely to continue to invite/accept foreign and domestic interference in the 2020 election if he is not removed from office, despite impeachment. Why has he not acted to ensure that the Russians could never again electronically interfere with our communications after the 2016 election? It's always been clear it's been because he didn't want to make it difficult for them to interfere in future elections. As to removing him from the White House if he refuses when the time comes, why not the marshals? His imperial reign must at least end when he is no longer president.
Victory? This is a pretty low bar because all it reflects is that the House has a majority of Dems. Dems are not "America," they are just the "other" party. Rather than being representative of anything, this impeachment is completely partisan; not a single Republican will vote for either impeachment or removal.
Better to consider what this "victory" holds for the Dems. It shows a desperate attempt to win in Congress what they are not likely to win in November. It badly harms the Dems' likely nominee Joe Biden, who will be stained with the aura of corruption. It wastes time and resources better spent creating a record on which to run. Failure to remove the president isn't a win, it's a loss.
3
It's been well documented that he cheats at golf and cheats on his wives. That's enough for me. Case closed.
4
I appreciate the House Judiciary Committee's restraint on the Articles of Impeachment. I believe it is necessary to preserve the power of the presidency for a future Democrat who wishes to build on the precedent of new powers created by this administration. As a card-carrying Democrat, I believe the demographics on our side in the long run, and I look forward to the day when the Republicans rue the day they made it possible for the President to exercise unfettered power for no better reason than they can. At least I can count on the Democrats to do it for reasons I support, like mitigating climate change, fixing health care, reigning in the corporate power, and impeaching every unqualified judge appointed by Trump. The Second Reconstruction needs to be as painful to those who perpetrated this evil on us as the first one was.
4
A most eloquent column. Thank you, Mr. Blow.
3
Trump's behavior in Ukraine is the tip of the iceberg. We actually have no idea what this guy has been up to. What do we know about all his conversations with Putin, with MBS, with Erdogan? Absolutely nothing. Remember Helsinki.
4
It's only a hope, but if the Articles could be delayed a few weeks, and not sent to the Senate till February, who knows but that Mr. Trump might commit a few more obvious crimes, and public opinion begin to shift strenuously towards removal? There's nothing to lose by slowing the probably inevitable acquittal in the Senate, and maybe much to gain.
Whatever happens in the Senate (and there could be a surprise or two, if Bolton testifies, or if Parnas turns states' evidence against Guiliani, or if the actual transcript of the July 25 conversation is produced), it seems likely that by next November, there will be little doubt that this president is the most corrupt and unqualified ever to be elected. He could be reelected, of course, particularly if Putin's people are involved, but my guess is that the vast majority of the nation will have had quite enough of this fraud.
NO CB. If the dems believe this was a victory, I guess they all think HRC won in 2016. They come up with the most tepid articles of impeachment possible, they can't convince even their own members it's a good idea, let alone independents or repubs. They've got Adam Schiff who misses his calling being a clown playing a clown on some tv drama and the rest of the lot standing around beaming -- but this is a loss. And it will get worse if the repubs play hardball and start calling witnesses.
2
Someone enlighten me: It is my understanding if he is not convicted, nor removed from office, he could ultimately be re-elected again.
Since his die-hard, cult, swamp fans will overlook his abuse etc, his re-election could happen. We have witnessed the ignorance of the GOP, their refusal of facts and their oath, they will declare a victory in some way.
Then what good is impeachment? it should include an automatic bar from holding office again, as any crime should.
What is the point of going through this? I hope our justice system will label him and prevent re-election and I want our justice system to work for the American people but all of this leaves me with many questions and doubts. Mostly disappointment.
I personally feel Trump is the ultimate, worst person to hold office and I want nothing more for him to be held accountable. But what a tremendous let down of our government and democracy to protect us from people like Trump. Yes, it is a process, and political.
Perhaps the Southern District of New York will find him guilty of something that will result in his demise.
My dream: justice will prevail.
1
Here's the problem with this notion of "moral victories":
Who cares?
What's the end result? A person with no sense of shame is shamed, but gets to keep his hold on power - getting more judges appointed, controlling foreign policy and still having the power to do whatever he wants.
This is what you need to understand about Conservative mentality. You can call them all the names you want and issue statements of disapprove 'til you're blue in the face. They will still have the power they seek. The ends justify the means.
Does that sound like any victory to you?
If you want a REAL victory? Don't let people simply lose an election, PUT THEM IN JAIL. Until that can be done, these "victories" mean nothing.
2
Mr. Blow, I wish I could see things from your point-of-view. But this is not a victory for our country. Trump has committed high crimes and misdemeanors, as noted in the Constitution. He has conspired with foreign dictators (Putin, Kim, Xi, and Duterte), against the advice of all U.S. intelligence agencies. He has lined his pockets with money from foreign dignitaries who stay at his hotels. He has wasted millions in taxpayer dollars playing golf at his resorts. Worst of all, he tried to blackmail the President of Ukraine into announcing an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden, without a shred of evidence of wrong-doing.
All Trump's crimes have been thoroughly, publicly documented. Yet the Senate will refuse to convict him, simply because he claims to be a Republican. He is their key to continued power over the will of the people. No matter what happens, THEY WILL NOT CONVICT TRUMP.
Already, Trump is sneering and thumbing his nose at the impeachment process. He refused to participate in the House hearings, while at the same time he complained how "unfair" they are to him. He will make light of the Senate trial as well. It is notable that McConnell wants a brief trial, while Trump wants a drawn-out, melodramatic circus. He wants to play the martyr before the cameras, to tweet every bit of evidence as an insult to his dignity.
The only "victory" that we can hope for is that Trump will make an even bigger fool of himself during the trial. God help our country.
I was told that the biggest joke in the world is to get up in the morning and tell God what your plans are for the day. To automatically assume that the Senate will refuse to agree with the House impeachment of Trump is by no means a certainty. Perhaps I am a tad naif but I continue to believe that at least some of the Republicans in the Senate will follow their consciences and do the right thing. Not to do so will sound the death knell of the Republican Party and, perhaps, even the end of our two-party system, Perhaps Trump will not be impeached but what happens when the cops come to the White House to arrest this criminal for his past crimes as a crooked businessman? We still haven't heard from all the witnesses nor seen the documents that prove his criminal acts. Putting children in cages must surely be enough evidence to drag this "fake" President out of the While House in hand cuffs. Must he really have to shoot someone on 5th Avenue for Republicans take notice that their hero is a loser in every sense of the word?
1
Mr. Blow states:
"You can request that another country interfere in our elections on your behalf, and then attempt to bribe them to ensure that they follow through. "
Exactly what Trump did with Russia ("Russia, are you listening?") and also another country which is China. Trump wanted China to interfere also. The facts are not in dispute. Republican members are not disputing the facts. Like Reagan (?) said "Facts are stubborn things." The Republican Party under Trump has become a cult, a tribe that seems to worship this awful, corrupt, immoral, and indecent human being who is now our President. What does that say about the American people, of which I am one?
The most important take away from this article is to recognize that we Americans are not currently living in a republic based on democratic principles.
Trump is a successful autocrat that has effectively taken over the government by capturing the Republican Party through intimidation.
Every American should realize that if Trump is angered or threatened by any citizen he can and will take steps to destroy that persons life.
This next election is a desperate opportunity for every voter to assist in recapturing our freedom from Trumps intimidation and corruption.
2
'Impeachment in the House Is the Victory'
Millions wasted 3 years of war in Washington.
The result is a slap on the wrist.
Meantime you lost the support of any one with a working brain, the goodwill of independents and pushed millions of silent Trump supporters to his camp.
But yea, the principle.
Some victory.
3
Everybody needs to take a deep breath. The American people only have themselves to blame for this entire mess. The political system has been a mess for decades and most of the social justices warriors are either knieve or ignorant to that fact. A lot of this outrage stems from the fact Trump is not a politician and has been able to garner the support that Democrats have not. What does that say?...Wake up, listen and value the opinions of the working class Americans.
Good luck.
1
blow is right that impeachment without conviction is all we will get, and it's better than nothing. but the rest is his usual bloviating based on his feelings without a grounding in history, political science or statistics. this may work if you're really very clever, but he isnt.
America elected Donald Trump to get away from Obamaism. If threatened with Obamaism again they would elect Trump again and that is why Joe Biden cannot win.
This time and effort might have been better spent focusing the Democratic Party on the 2020 election. Time will tell us if this was all worth it.
I don't see much of a victory. If a president can betray his country's interests to a foreign government in exchange for their monkeying wiith his re-election, and tell Congress to stuff their subpoenas, and remain in office, then any president can do anything, and this is no longer America. It is some sort of cheap, lying, dangerous excuse for what used to be a constutional democracy, and its people--or at least its controlling minority of violent MAGA-hatted ignoramuses --seem to like it that way.
2
In summation: The high level of corruption from the President and the Republican Party, the attempt to dismantle the Constitutional Framework, Trump's willful attempt to disregard the welfare of the general population, his alarming show of admiration towards the leaders of non-U.S. allied countries, his stunning ignorance and lack of wisdom to make important decisions, and his quick ability to become unhinged. That's what we have. Where do we go from here?
3
Charles, I'm 100% in agreement with your thoughts on impeachment. It's why Congress had to act. He will be rebuked, and, yes, it will be in the history books and in his obituary. One of the worst presidents in our history.
The 'Imp.' before 'President Trump' will stand for Impeached, not Imperial.
Let's vote them all out in 2020. Merry Christmas!!
4
I dreamed last night that Lindsay Graham had a change of heart - visited by the spirits of Christmas past, Christmas present, and Christmas yet to come - and voted for Trump's impeachment.
2
Absolutely correct Mr. Blow. Even Trump knows this. He has been quoted as saying that impeachment "wouldn't be good" on his resume. Assuming the Senate doesn't vote to convict, Trump will have the dubious distinction of being the first impeached incumbent in American history. A loser come Election Day.
3
I disagree.
Trump knows one thing, power. Impeachment without the chance of conviction is a mere trifle. Impeachment is nothing to him, or his enablers and abettors, because there is no power of punishment or condemnation behind it. Impeachment to Trump is like being called a dirty word by a person he deems insignificant.
Who cares?
The best that can be hoped for is that enough voters will punish Trump, and his Republican enabler and abettors, in the 2020 election.
Trump does not like to lose...
4
Magnificent! Thank you!
1
Has anyone taken notice of the fact that the Republicans' defence of President Corrupt Trump is a blend of hysteria and willful ignorance?
While Democrats have introduced the testimony of credible witnesses who supported the July 25th confession of President Corrupt Trump, Republicans have interrupted, shouted, screamed, cried and invoked an alternate universe to obfuscate the truth and mislead the American people.
7
C’mon now Charles, who are you kidding? The Democrats and your friends in the media have had one goal since that horrible moment you all realized Trump had won the election - remove him from office. You’ve thrown everything you can at him but none of it has stuck.
Spinning a party line vote as a victory for Democrats is as disingenuous as the basis for impeachment.
1
Mitch McConnell and all of the Republicans will be haunted by supporting their president in this dark hour. It is a mistake they will live with forever and into the annals of history.
1
The victory will be next year when voters give the final word that Trump’s dishonesty, irresponsibility, corruption and ineptitude are unacceptable.
3
Impeachment is absolutely the right action, but any notion that this will be a rebuke to the president is unrealistic. Trump will view impeachment as evidence of malicious behavior by the Democrats. It is always important to understand that he believes that everything he says is true. He does not so much say what he believes as he believes what he says. Whatever motivates his utterances, once he has produced them they become evidence in his mind. To those who would say that he must know that he is lying, I would counter that he cannot imagine that what he has said is a lie. This explains how he can dismiss the intelligence community and favor his own gut.
2
Republican Congressman Max Thornberry of Texas called Trump's attempt at Ukraine bribery 'inappropriate".
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham called it a failed attempt carried out by an incompetent presidential administration.
The question then is: Why did every Republican House member vote against investigating inappropriate conduct and gross incompetence, let alone the obvious extortion of a foreign nation and ally.
2
When I've watched Hollywood movies about kings and aristocrats swaggering around and arrogantly laying down the law for the peasants, I've thought of Trump and his loyal Trumpites. They are like the subjects of a monarch.
Their utter committment, no matter what, to Tsar Trump the Terrible is terrifying to see. He might as well be appointed by divine right. They might as well just bow and address him as Your Majesty or Your Excellency. They cling to their illusions about their reigning ruler who is neither majestic or excellent!
Now, like Russia, the US has its oligarchs and its state media--GOP FOX-- putting out fake daily news, worthy of Putin media.
If we don't save our democracy and US reputation in the world, then what will our civics classes be able to teach our children, without looking like hypocrites? What lessons will college students in history and politics graduate with?
Tsar Donald the Terrible and his courtiers construct their own dream world. But it's a nightmare for the rest of us.
Forget the Senate, impeach bravely in the House, on the widest possible criteria. As Charles says--draw the lines and set the precedents--- and tell the nation why.
3
If impeachment is your victory, then a second term will be Trump's.
1
I guess when you have no real hope you can change the definition of words to fit your situation to at least make yourself feel better.
That’s really what Mr Blow is doing here.
Calling a purely bipartisan House lead impeachment with zero Republican support a “victory” is laughable. Couple it with (likely) zero Republican support in the Senate and it’s delusional. In fact it’s worse than that as there will be people so angered by this colossal waste of time that they will likely come out and support Trump in greater numbers in the next election.
This is not going the Dems way at all but they have cast their die.
And as a result we will get four more years of incompetence that fuels divisiveness.
1
There is sad reality in this column that we now live in a Fascist State supporting all powerful Dictator. Trump and the Republicans have done what no enemy could do, destroy the core of our Democracy. I’ve already adjusted my life style accordingly. If Trump wins the election, and I think that’s likely, it’s all over.
1
I agree competely. The House must do their job regardless of a Senate outcome. A failure to act in the House would be a victory for Trump and autocracy.
We are in this mess now because of Republican cowering or failure to act. Any failure to act in the face of a bully only enables the bully further.
If democracy cannot stand up to the bully Trump, then it by definition is not worth saving.
4
If all House Republicans voted for impeachment and all Senate Republicans voted for removal, Trump would be gone and Fox News would trail along. Trump only survives because Rupert Murdoch fire fuels Fox News propaganda. Trump is toasted if Fox turns on him. The poor, brainwashed, lost, and mistreated republican souls will follow along after one week of saturation propaganda bombing by Fox. If Republicans cannot control Fox than Fox controls them. Dah!
1
Of course, Trump must be impeached...as he leaves no room for doubt about his malevolous behavior. But, however ugly this bully in-chief's behavior is, he remains a symptom of a diseased democracy...for lack of participation, and contribution, of it's people. Looking the other way, even complacent with the status quo, with excuses like "I don't want to get my hands dirty by getting into politics", equivalent to not having hands to begin with, may be our sin. If we could develop the will to hold our government accountable, educate ourselves in what's going on, and acting accordingly, Trump and his republican minions wouldn't last a day. What we need is capable, honest, responsible, and dedicated politicians to do their job. A real democracy demands it.
3
I am a Democrat ... an old Democrat. I don’t understand how the slap on the wrist that an impeachment in the House leading to an automatic acquittal in the Senate constitutes is worth all this effort. I thought Clinton’s impeachment was ridiculous, I think Trump’s impeachment is silly. But, with the current Democratic Presidential candidates, it’s something to do before the all too predictable re-election. Sigh ...
1
If this column is to be believed, we are hereby apologizing for surrendering our democracy to autocracy. The precedents that will be established clearly guarantee doom for the American experiment in the truth, the law and the principles upon which this nation was founded. As Elijah Cummings admonished us:
We can do better. Yet here we are calling defeat victory, declaring the game is over, speaking in the same disingenuous way we've been spoken to since our corrupt president and his cronies took office a mere three years ago. How sad, how shameful, how shocking. A mere slap on the wrist that will be laughed at from Moscow to Beijing to Pyongyang while being celebrated here at home by the worst president in our history. All things considered,
it was a peaceful revolution for all the wrong reasons.
Wake up, America. You've overslept.
1
The Republicans talk about a 'coup' by the House of Representatives. The real coup is what we are seeing by the president and the remaining Senate Republicans. They are apparently marching in lock step because a group of unseen oligarchs want to continue to pillage our American treasury.
Divide the 2017 $1.5 trillion tax cut by number of Republican Representatives that passed such an execrable bill and you know all of these traitors have padded their nests to a comfy retirement. The voters reigned in this group of scoundrels in 2018 but the Senate is still a lost cause.
What is destroying our republic is the billions of dollars flowing into and out of the pockets of our congress. Until we can stanch this flood, our government will be constantly tottering near the precipice.
The oligarchs of China and Russia are cheering on and supporting the corrupt billionaires of this country, waiting by the sidelines for our constitutional and federated government to fall.
2
And how is he punished exactly?
1
You mention Pence. He has been in the other carriage on the Trump train all along, largely out of sight, out of mind. But always in the back of mind, a migraine or perhaps cerebral bleed waiting to happen. He always seemed the insurance policy in the bargain, if you oust me, you will get him.
Well, so, what is there to say, Trump is impeached, stained but victorious, vindicated in his own mind, but still stained.
We are spared from the devoted VP as well as the new infringements on separation of church and state and everything else up his silent sleeve.
Just hope they are both voted out.
1
Well said Mr. Blow. But I will have to tell you that I am hoping for a Christmas gift of Collins, Gardner, Murkowski, Ernst and Romney voting for Impeachment.
Collins because most of her career has been served with honor, Gardner because his State is now purple, Murkowski because of her conscience, Ernst because of Trump's pardon of War Criminals and Romney because he firmly believes that Trump is the worst President ever. Besides I think Romney still has his sights on the Presidency.
I hope Santa Clause remembers that this is the only gift on my Christmas list.
133
@Jean It will take way more than them. 67 Senators will have to vote to remove him. If your dream lists votes to remove him, they are still 9 votes short. So looks like you are getting coal for Christmas.
1
@Jean
The important vote for Collins, Gardner, Murkowski, and Ernst was a NO vote against Kavanaugh. None came through. Any vote supporting impeachment safely nestled in the GOP forgone conclusion is meaningless.
10
Trump has made a mockery of the constitution. He must be removed from office.Period.
3
This is a pyrrhic victory at best that will haunt Democrats in November.
2
Charles Blow gives the game away. Even he does not want Trump removed from office through impeachment, because Trump is not really a unique threat to our democracy. After all Mr. Blow thinks Pence is just as bad. This is the Democrats game. They can’t win in a trial, and they don’t want to any way. This is political gamesmanship. That’s why they are rushing the process. They just want to be able to say “impeached president Donald Trump.” But just watch, their hypocrisy will be on full display. They and their media allies will constantly refer to Trump as impeached, but they have never and will never give Bill Clinton the same treatment. Go ahead and impeach Trump, but please spare me your crocodile tears over the state of the republic. If you really cared and really believed Trump was an existential threat then removing him would be all that mattered.
2
After 9/11, the American economy shut down for three days. We can do that again, and more, if necessary.
1
"Impeachment in the House is the victory."
A hollow victory at best.
1
Yes, Charles, Impeachment IS our victory, and our Christmas present and Hannukah present and birthday present too! Thank you anonymous whistleblower, and brave witnesses and Democratic Congresspersons!
2
Winning by losing - the Democratic Party way.
1
My thoughts exactly. There are still heroes in American government: those patriotic civil servants who testified under oath, and the Democratic House leaders and representatives who held this corrupt and dangerous president to account. As for the Republicans, shame.
66
@abigail49 Shame and infamy for history to remember.
6
And let's hope that this victory will help some Republicans to listen back to their soul.
Trump will campaign on this "punishment" as a badge of honor in his fight against the deep state. Another sleight of hand in the real war the plutocratic right wages behind closed doors in the dismantling of federal authority.
What you didn’t address, and it is worrying, is what will Trump do to celebrate his “victory” in the Senate trial?
Give himself a military parade, make some outlandish executive order, pardon all his cronies . . . the possibilities are endless. They are all bad.
Doesn’t mean he should not be impeached, he should. But I’m hoping we don’t end up with a Pyrrhic victory!
1
If America survived the acquittal of Andrew Johnson even as he conspired to neuter the GOP plans for reconstruction as he aided and abetted the resurrection of the southern states as bastions of white supremacy effectively negating the sacrifice of the Union Army dead and condemning America to another hundred years of effective slavery for black Americans and fostering the growth of the racial animus that plagues us still, we will survive the acquittal of Donald Trump, ironically by the GOP, and his re-election in 2020. GOP Senators know this, and so they are focused only on their own personal political survival. However, like a human being that survives a bout of malaria, the scars linger and the virus only sleeps to awaken another day. America will suffer, and men and women will die in future wars and calamities that could, with the exercise of latter-day profiles in GOP courage, be prevented by drawing a line after the present frame of American political history.
1
Calling impeachment a 'victory' in this sense is the proverbial band-aid over the gaping wound. There is no victory, even if the left get to say "Yeah, we really told him!", if Trump and his administration's political atrocities continue unabated.
The kind of argument presented in this piece strikes at the core of what bothers me about liberal thought. The focus is far too focused on the ideal and not enough about the practical realities of what's really going on. It's why impeachment is a totally ineffective means of checking Trump's abuse of power and also why the Democrats can't seem to unite under a candidate that will beat him in 2020.
Nothing about this is a "victory". I'm disgusted by the rantings of the Republicans in the House and judging by Lindsey Graham's complete 180 on Trump, I'm not optimistic that they'll be any better once this goes to the Senate. He will not be removed and he WILL win again in 2020. We are watching the end of our democratic experiment in real time, folks.
1
Given this is the first president in our history with a full time propaganda network (Fox) working for impunity against all checks and balances of power, yes, it is a victory insofar as there is at least one remaining entity that will call out the abuse of power in the presidency. There were more than two counts of impeachment, as noted by other at the NY Times journalists. I would have liked to seen his domestic interference in the 2016 election included, i.e., Michael Cohen and the hush money. But, at least we have something other than the normalizing of corruption now championed by almost everyone in the GOP. Their talking points were nothing more than a parroting of Fox News. Yes, it is a victory. There shall be a marker known in history that this president's attitude and behavior of being above the law and Constitution will have been duly noted.
1
The indictment of a mob boss is of small consolation if he is acquitted and murders the families of those who testified against him.
That is the accurate analogy.
2
You're right.
But I would also add that the Dems need to stress on a daily basis that they are impeaching for honor and duty and not as partisans. The Dems are not stressing this enough. The Dems also should make it crystal clear that were this a Democrat president they would be doing the same thing (voting for impeachment).
Th public relations battle is to shift the mantle of partisanship onto the Republicans, who are definitely balking at impeachment due to their extreme partisanship. But Republicans are spewing propaganda every day by falsely claiming that it is the Dems who are being partisan.
The Dems have to counter this by pointing out the utter hypocrisy of the Republicans in that if this were a Democrat president, the Republicans would be impeaching 100%.
Win the public relations battle, that's just as important as the impeachment process itself.
2
Trump is not only going to claim the failure of the Senate to remove him from office as an exoneration, he will see the House Democratic majority used their nuclear option of impeachment and he beat them. Trump says Article II of the Constitution allows him to do what he wants. In the past he’s followed most laws and procedures, breaking a select few. If he decides he can disregard Congress and the Supreme Court to declare a State of Emergency and use Executive Orders to transfer funds to build his wall, he can establish one-man-rule,
Trump does not control lower levels of the federal judiciary. House Democrats should take their evidence of bribery, obstruction of justice, contempt of Congress, and criminal conspiracy to a federal prosecutor to present to the courts to indict, try, and convict Mulvaney, Pompeo, Giuliani, lower level White House staffers, and name Trump as an unindicted co-conspirator. Facing prison time could break the bonds of personal loyalty Trump uses to control his minions, pushing them to protect themselves rather than Trump.
Criminal charges pushed John Dean to testify, breaking Watergate wide open. He served time, as did Nixon’s Attorney General, Chief of Staff, and General Counsel. Trump’s regime is a criminal conspiracy and only criminal charges can break it apart.
3
Impeachment is censure alone if the Senate as expected acquits. Trump may yet resign for health reasons if he looks likely to lose the 2020 election.
The clear evidence Trump fears Biden the most is a good reason to have Biden the Democrat nominee, paired with whoever is second in the delegate count.
I think Lincoln said you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. We need a Democratic Senate and President and years to recover from Trump. After Nixon the GOP came back with Reagan in 1980 so rebirth is possible.
This too will pass...
1
The ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Collins of Georgia just asserted that if this Impeachment of the President succeeds, the rights of the minority are dead.
That is false, just as their claims that what the President has done and attempted to do do not constitute high crimes and misdemeanors are false.
Every Republican in the House and Senate with an open mind, a conscience, and fidelity to his oath of office, is free to vote with the courage of his own conviction as an individual in favor of the impeachment Articles and in the Senate trial. Truth and trust are the currency of our country, in politics and diplomacy as in our everyday lives. Ms Yovanovich, Dr. Hill, Ambassadors Taylor and Kent, and Lt. Col Vindman have testified under oath as witnesses to the truth.
I listened to Hakeem Jeffries amazing speech on the house floor last night and thought it was so clear, so patriotic. There is no question that Trump abused his power in many ways.
Immediately after Jeffries Matt Gaetz started to speak, and I had to mute the sound so as not to scream. Even when Trump leaves in January 2020 these awful people will still be there.
103
@LFK
"Immediately after Jeffries Matt Gaetz started to speak, and I had to mute the sound so as not to scream."
Never before in my life have so many people provoked in me the desire to commit acts of violence on their persons as every Republican that ever opens their mouth does now. To hear them speak is painful.
14
Sorry, Mr. Blow, but a two-article impeachment in the House rejected by Trumpian stooges in the Senate is a hollow victory and one he already derides as Impeachment Lite. I would have preferred a complete list of Trump's crimes including all those uncovered by Mueller; Trump's blatant corruption, self-dealing and violations of the emoluments clause; his crimes against humanity on our southern border; his endangerment of public health by revoking environmental protections; his abrogation of the uniform code of military justice by pardoning war criminals; his violations of campaign finance law; his servility to Putin and other hostile foreign dictators; and moral turpitude. Such a list, even if the Senate does not impeach, would serve as a permanent record of the Trump presidency and a reminder to American voters never to make the same mistake again.
1
@Christy
There is no limit on the number of times and charges the Democrats in the House can bring against Trump even if he is re-elected in 2020. Trump may be charged with further disgraces if he persists in violating the Constitution.
1
This impeachment is too little and too late. If the Mueller report had come out earlier and impeachment on Trump's many examples of obstruction of justice had begun immediately, it would be
1
Let’s suppose you are right, that impeachment in the House IS the victory.
What does such an impotent victory say about our system of justice?
I agree that the Senate will not convict him, but wonder if a majority might censure him.
A sad attempt to call a loss a win.
Will it also be a win when the House flips back to a Republican majority?
2
A dangerous precedent that will haunt the Democrats for decades. Selective outrage is not a reason to remove a sitting President, especially for people blinded by rage
1
“There are so many poor and powerless men and women, who every day are destroyed by a zealous and voracious criminal justice system. Trump needs to be rebuked to demonstrate to the country that the rich and power are not completely immune to the whims of justice.“
But does a failed impeachment effort accomplish this?
@EddyFuss
Your question skirts the real issue here, that impeachment in the house is the victory.
Impeaching Trump is the right thing to do. This is not a Dictatorship, it is a Republic.
I fear that when it fails in the Senate, the political capital spent on this will have been too great and will only provide for a nice Republican commercial come election time.
Or should I say...re-election time.
(Hate Trump, lifelong Dem for the record)
If the purpose of impeachment is to record an official rebuke to unfit behavior, why not record all of the major examples?
This is yet another case in which Democrats bring dull knives to gunfights. Impeachment is for history, yes, and to salvage whatever shreds of national self-esteem we can manage to save. It is also to demonstrate strength. Have the courage, Democratic leaders, to ask the people to pay attention for more than two weeks. We are not babies, we do not need to be coddled, or talked down to. We, and history, need to hear clearly how President Trump has been a lawless, wannabe mafia boss in the Oval Office, and how his Republican handlers have enabled him to sell out our country for their personal and political gain.
If impeachment is the victory, it has already been squandered.
35
@Michael
Impeachment is of an indictment not a rebuke. If this were an actual RICO indictment (still waiting for the Southern District), the incontrovertible evidence would undoubtedly led to a verdict of guilty.
Look up the legal definition of bribery and obstruction.
4
@Michael
It seems to me that a sufficient number of Americans ARE babies and DO need to be talked down to in words of one syllable, as the wannabe mafia boss constantly demonstrates via his simple-minded communication techniques on twitter and at political rallies.
Unfortunately, being babies, that cohort is also self-entitled, self-absorbed and ethically unaware to the extent of being unoffended by lawlessness or abuse of power and totally unconcerned with national self-esteem, which ain't even on their radar.
So...squandered victory, indeed. Pearls before swine.
12
Thank you, Charles Blow for finally telling the truth: "Impeachment in the House IS the victory." How else would the facts be made public? With no impeachment by the House, Trump could campaign as though he had done no wrong and there would be no way to challenge him!
3
It is a hollow victory at best and we and the rest of the world will have to endure another excruciating 4 years of this madness. My worst fear is we won't be able to come back from this. I have never, ever, felt this disheartened, this despondent, this crushingly devastated at what his re-election holds for the future of our country and the world.
76
I feel exactly the same way. It’s an unrelenting nightmare.
17
@Chana Then why was Trump elected in the first place, and despite high crimes and misdemeanours, is well on the way to re-election? There has been a profound failure on the part of the Democratic Party leadership to correctly analyse the political situation and to take proper action.
3
@Chana Yes, many of us are deeply disheartened. And at the same time, we must meet these times with a fierce determination to work our hearts out to elect #46 in November. We must encourage one another when the going seems impossible. The times have found us, and we must friend and befriend one another as we do all we can to see that he is not rel-elected.
16
Mr. Blow is free to make the argument he makes. Those drafting the impeachment articles are not so fortunate. Republicans will likely seek their disbarment and will likely succeed. The ABA Rules of Ethics make this clear. Rule 3-4.4 provides that charges can only be brought if the evidence is sufficient to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. As Mr. Blow states, there is no possibility of conviction.
Schiff and his associates will be losing their law licenses. They may become homeless. Democrats should stand up for them. Republicans won’t give them a dime.
@michjas
Totally incorrect. Impeachment is a political act not a criminal process. If convicted Trump would not be imprisoned by Conviction in the Senate, merely ordered removed from office.
In the prior impeachments of Johnson and Clinton which Congressmen lost their lawyer status due to the acquittals in the Senate? None.
2
Only in Washington would Impeachment in the House without removal by the Senate be called a victory. It is the same sort of victory claimed by Little Bush in his war. A hollow, meaningless victory.
In less than a year from now the Democrats must convince a large majority of voters in the US of two things: 1) Trump is a danger to our nation and must go, 2) Democrats are capable of running the country.
If the House Impeaches and the Senate does not Remove, it will be a strong indicator that the first issue of Trump's danger to the nation has a long way to go. Due to the Democrats tilting at the Wind Mill of Impeachment, they have done nothing to demonstrate that they are capable of running the country.
I would submit Mr. Blow that rather than a 'Victory', Impeachment has been a distraction and fool's errand from what is truly important: Voting Trump out of office.
While it's somewhat of a victory to impeach Trump in the House, it's incredible that he will not likely be removed by the Senate. The Senatorial nod and a wink to clearly open illegality on the part of Trump and cronies will be a stain on their tenure forever. Voters will remember every Senator that's chosen to stand with this criminal, a man that has defiled the office every day since his election, in an election aided by Russia. Choosing Russia over America is the epitome of betrayal of their oath, which apparently means as much to Senators as it does to Trump - nothing.
Victory? No. Impeachment in the House is turning into a political catastrophe. Democratic leadership is failing the Party and the nation.
The American people desperately need to see Republican corruption resisted, rebuked, and thwarted. Instead, they get to watch a process structured (by Democrats) to let House Republicans lie about the law, lie about the evidence, and scream about the unfairness of the process, all while enjoying their opportunity to turn it to advantage. The Republican tactic has been to turn the process into a loathsome spectacle, by turns violent when Republicans have the floor, and boring, anodyne, and ineffectual when Democrats have it. Then Republicans blame it all on Democrats.
It is working. For all ordinary viewers can tell, Republicans are right.
While bungling the House process, Democrats are, by omission, setting the stage for a like humiliation in the Senate. Democrats should right now be trumpeting plans to call all the defiant witnesses, and cross-examine them at a Senate trial. They should announce that they will call Trump himself. Do Democrats have the power to make that happen? Who knows? But it is critically important that Democrats do have the power to force Republicans to reveal their true colors, by imposing a sham process to prevent the truth from emerging. At least make the American people see that, as dramatically as possible.
3
Republicans insist Democrats want to "overturn the election" and, therefore, many people infer a Democrat would be in office, perhaps even Hillary Clinton. Democrats need to emphasize the Constitutional process that will result in President Pence.
As President, Pence will install conservative judges and follow the same social and economic policies. Republicans could get the policies they like, but without the lunacy and anarchy of Trump.
This might sway some conservative voters and loosen Trump's hold on them, allowing Republican Senators to defect from Trump.
I dislike Pence, but Trump is a unique threat to the Constitution and the country. Anyone else would be better.
1
The senate will "exonerate" Trump and contemporaneously confirm that a man who ordered that no testimony or documents be disclosed to congress did not obstruct congress. An unsupportable judgment. How else can one obstruct?
The opinions of Romney, Collins and Sasse should not be sought on any issue if they fail to support impeachment. Such a failure personally sanctions obvious graft. Failure to recognize blatant obstruction of congress displays a lack of any judgment, ethical rigor or honesty. Such a vote will brand them as liars, oath breakers and suborners, rather than defenders, of the constitution.
Is there and argument that failing to comply with subpoenas and refusing to deliver documents is in fact not obstruction?
1
Unfortunately, it's like winning the popular vote, you get to tell everyone you "won," but you end up exactly where you were: Trump is still your President.
2
ah, now we lower the bar.
Clearly there are no GROUNDS for impeachment. Sadly, he will remain in office.
no qui pro quo. and not sending the aid would have merely set us back to Obama's pollicy of non-lethal aid only. So, actually a real threat to "national security"? Only for those with cognitive bias.
No way the President will be removed from office. And by lowering the bar for impeachment, the Dems have greatly undermined Rule of Law in this country
yes, Trump is ... acting like a buffoon, often. But rule of law is paramount, and Da Dems using subpoena as a political weapon is appalling.
3
Government gridlock is good. Here’s to four more years of perpetual impeachment proceedings in 2020.
2
A wonderful column that needs to be said.
Dems should do everything they can to turn out the vote (and expect the GOP to use every slimy delaying tactic to suppress it).
I'm lucky that my state (CO) has mail-in ballots, allowing for early voting and insuring election safety. We are working to flip the last remaining Senate District blue.
As other columns have suggested, people should work on EVERY race, down-ticket to school board, city council, school board, & mayor.
Sad to say that the DNC actively tips the scales against newer, younger, more progressive candidates--esp. women & those of color. (See recent NYT article). The official Dem party is controlled by big money--not as much as the R's, but enough to favor powerful interests, SuperPacs, & lobbyists.
So roll up your sleeves, read the candidate's websites, and canvass for people you believe in--to develop a farm team as the Dems move up the political ladder. That's what the GOP did for 20 years, in order to take power.
1
Mr. Charles Blow points out that, if removed by the Senate, Trump might well not budge from the White House.
But will Trump squat in the White House after an electoral defeat next November? "Would we send marshals to the White House to drag him, his wife and son out?"
What would we do . . .?
@Armand Beede
The Dems would seek a court order from Federal Court and the Marshalls would remove him. Even Trump has not that much gall. He would fly off in a helicopter like Nixon did.
1
My suggestion (and John Dean's), impeachment in the House. Do not turn over the articles of impeachment to the Senate for a trial.
Good points very well-made.
Thank you, Charles.
Amen. Impeachment IS the victory for the Republic. He and his enablers will squeal like the hogs they are and it will be for naught. He will stand as IMPEACHED forever. And let that settle in on the remaining non-enablers for a few months and watch his stock drop. All of the lies he's told will also come piling in on him.
1
It may be a hollow victory.
If impeachment does not have a clear majority of voter support in swing states don't do it.
These are the people who elect presidents in the electoral college.
The serial criminal Trump deserves to be impeached many times over but it doesn't do the nation any good if he helps give him a second term. The Senate right now will never convict.
Better to oust him through the ballot box next yr. Even with a "good economy" Biden leads him by double digits now.
Yes the Russians interfered with the 2016 elections but technically did not hack into one vote. The overwhelming democrat victory in the House in 2018 proved it.
There were more "hacking" into votes in other elections notably in 1960 with JFK in Ill. As the old Jay Leno joke goes, if you live in a dictatorship if you vote you are dead, if you live in Cook County Ill, if your dead you vote.
The abolitionist in 19 century America turned out to be the most morally right but could not end slavery from 1776 to 1865.
Lincoln in a little over four yrs. did it with careful political skills. He saved the union first and then ended slavery because without the former he could not get the latter and made deals with slave owning unionists to help him pass the 13th amendment ending slavery.
Learn from history or forever be condemned to repeat its worst mistakes.
11
@Paul
Read about Pesident Andrew Johnson's behavior in regard to the South and Reconstruction, his impeachment, and subsequent electoral defeat.
The Congress had a moral duty to impeach then as it clearly does now.
7
@Wang An Shih thank you for your reply. Actually although Johnson was probably Lincoln's and the republican party only mistake by giving him the VP slot in 1864, the impeachment of him was a scam because of a technical thing he did and not because he wanted to bring back slavery and was a dud as president.
It was Lincoln and the republican party with malice towards none and charity to all reach out to the rebels why they made him VP. He was the only southern senator that stayed in the union and went to Washington.
Again learn from Lincoln, sometimes the immediate moral thing to do is not always the right way to go. It can backfire.
1
Total justice will be served only if this criminal is removed from office. Yes, impeachment in the house will be recorded in the history books but does he ever read books?
"Trump won’t be removed, and his remaining days in office will mean that the threat to the country will remain." This is the crux of the problem. Once impeached and not removed, what additional constraints can be directed against Trump for future corrupt behavior?The answer is none. Trump could, and possibly will, publicly announce that he requests all foreign governments provide information and money to help him defeat his Democratic opponent. He could openly nullify election laws regarding illegal contributions, and amass huge amounts of money for his campaign. At that point, who is going to stop him? Who is going to hold him accountable? I am in favor of impeachment for the reasons that Mr. Blow describes. But without any support from Republicans impeachment is purely symbolic. The result will be the institutionalization of the very behaviors we abhor and the establishment of a king. At that point our last existential hope will be the 2020 election, in whatever manipulated form that it takes. The real work begins after impeachment.
1
Gee, Charles, you are correct,
If a president is convicted then what?
Would the courts order him removed?
How many days or weeks before he has to leave.?
Usually, when a person is fired, they have to leave at the time of the firing.
And if this person is given time to get things prepared for leaving, does the Vice take over immediately.
As for Trump, he had/has the help of Vladimir Putin.
I do believe that Putin has studied us and our country's laws and rules for years if not decades.
Then Trump somehow fell into his lap.
I don't believe for a second that Trump can even recite the Preamble to our Constitution, what's more it's articles and laws.
But if another entity is patient enough and really has an ax to grind, and really wants to try and destroy a country, a great country, in front of the world, then this is just what we now have.
A person who has taken the time to learn about us, study us and our laws, analyzed the ambiguities and is now exploiting them.
Trump is a traitor to this country.
Most people in this country know it.
If he isn't convicted, then WE THE PEOPLE have to come together in unity for once in this country's existence and fight to get him out.
1
Thank you for this summation. I agree with the definition of victory. My hope is that patriots will be outraged by the injustice of the acquittal and therefore strongly motivated to vote against Trump supporters and for the opposition. People who have never voted may be finally convinced that their voice is needed to prevent the conversion of our republic into a dictatorship.
Simultaneously, some Trump supporters will feel vindicated by the acquittal and therefore feel unthreatened such that they will not be motivated as much to vote.
Meanwhile, our free press needs to do the job the DoJ is not doing: illuminating the crime spree in progress and the subjugation of US policy to Russian interests. Get the financial records and follow the money!
4
I have to disagree with you, Mr. Blow. The impeachment process was started, so it has to be carried out. But as much as Donald Trump may be aggravated by it now, in the long run he's going to wear it as a badge of "honor" (a word that can't be used in his case without the quotation marks), and that's how Republican politicians will treat it, too. And the next time that a Democrat is elected president, Republican politicians will be planning the winner's impeachment starting on the night of Election Day. Granted, they might well do so even if Donald Trump had never been impeached, but they'll try all the harder now. Perhaps if Donald Trump's tax returns are released as a side effect of impeachment, it'll do some good. Otherwise, it won't have helped to defeat him in 2020, and may well make his defeat harder.
1
I agree with you Charles. The Republicans will not, nor would they ever, vote to convict him. I was against impeachment early in Trump's presidency. Even though the Mueller report indicated that Trump obstructed justice, the water was so muddied by Barr's initial statement and it was too complicated for the general public to understand. I felt that voting him out in 2020 would be the best for the country.
The evidence of the bribery and extortion of Ukraine changed my mind. Here was something that was so blatant it could not be ignored. And if the impeachment of Trump hurts the Democrats come 2020, then that's the price to pay for doing what is right. I am scared for my country if Trump is re-elected for 4 more years and I fear that we as a country will never recover. But I am glad the Democrats stood up for the rule of law regardless of how it plays out in the end.
4
While it's true that impeachment in the House is a victory, it is only the first victory in a war that will reach full throttle in the upcoming election. The importance of this first victory is that it will set the tone for those future battles, a tone that says we will not sit by or withdraw and tolerate presidential corruption and violation of the Constitution merely because we cannot assure his removal from office.
Anticipating Trump's response to the norms of presidential behavior and his opposition has never been a reliable barometer, because he respects neither. He is caught red-handed extorting the president of another country, and he refuses to admit it; when he is impeached in the House, he will disavow the legitimacy of the process; if he were to be convicted in the Senate we would, indeed, be faced with his refusal to leave. In the upcoming election, if he loses he will refuse to accept the results and there is every likelihood he would succeed in stalling the inauguration of a new president by appealing to the Supreme Court, where there is the equal likelihood he would prevail.
This is the coming war we are going to fight. Impeaching Trump sends the clear signal that we are bracing ourselves for the battles yet to be fought.
2
Agree.
House impeachment is the moral, ethical, and constitutional line in the sand that must be drawn.
As I've stated repeatedly the firewall WAS the November 2016 election. We entered the Trump emergency the day after. No clean getaway after that monumental blunder.
Once he took office the downward spiral was inevitable, and with him there is no bottom. No presidential moments. No enough.
Now win or lose come Jan/2021 he will not be leaving the WH voluntarily.
Nothing in his past indicates he will suddenly play nice.
He's been telegraphing this since early in his term, always circling back to his worst impulses.
This is the coming Trump end days cataclysm for which we all must be prepared to deal with.
2
No, impeachment in the House is not enough for victory. Republicans must obey the law. They must comply with subpoenas. They must make it clear that the Constitution is still supreme as the law of the land. They must not serve the man and not the nation. They must rebuke Trump, and they can perform that minimal gesture of respect for the rule of law by taking the impeachment seriously and condemning Trump in the Senate, whether they remove him or not. Otherwise, they must be removed from office.
2
The problem here is denial. And it is difficult to make an argument about a problem, if there are those committed to saying it doesn't exist in the first place.
That is the position of Donald Trump and his supporters, and why they continue to ignore the facts when the facts clearly speak for themselves.
In fact, it is they who have turned the House hearings into the highly partisan procedure that it has become by consistently defending the actions of this president and turning it into a personal matter of who "likes" or "dislikes" him, and in doing so they have yielded all objectivity in the ability to see the charges brought against him for what they are.
That is why the Republican Senate will give it a pass without even taking it into consideration.
And make no mistake about it, the charges being brought against this president are as serious as they are numerous.
If we cannot depend on those elected officials who are defending the interest of this country and the U.S. Constitution, we are lost.
The president obviously doesn't see it this way.
That's why Impeachment in the House is not only a victory, it is our country's victory as well.
4
Charles, you are so right on this. And once the impeachment vote passes the in the House, I hope all Democrats turn their skill and intelligence to the pressing issue of securing the integrity of the 2020 elections.
6
@Jean Sims
I agree but don't know if there’s anything Dems can do as long as the other party bows to trump and ignores the threat as they have sworn allegiance to Vladimir.
Should we expend so great an effort to have trump impeached when a more sure way to have him removed from office is to make known the current plight of working and middle class families in our nation, a plight that continues under his reign?
Over the past 30 years the income of the majority has been reduced while that of the top 1% has increased by 250%. We should emphasize the fact 40 million people live in poverty, 500,000 are homeless, that 3 rich individuals own more than the bottom 50% of the country, that 1/2 people live from paycheck to paycheck. Meanwhile, there's outrageous student debt, the health-care industry made 100 billion last while 1/2 million people were made bankrupt by medical bills.
As for being a nation of continuing discrimination, the average white family owns more than 10 times that of Black families. The Infant mortality rate among Blacks is double that of whites, and while Blacks are 13% of the population, only 4% are doctors, and only 7% are public school teachers.
These are the issues those truly aware of the lack of democracy in our nation should spend time and effort informing the people about. If we do that, we'll make a good strong and proper case for change, for a Democratic president who'll right the wrongs in our nation, who, with the obvious content of his case, will rid the country of trump and predecessors like him.
1
I watch a little of the hearings (as much as I can stand at any one time). What I am left with is this: The Democrats say Trump should be impeached. The Republicans say he shouldn't be impeached. There we have it. That seems to be what our democracy is. So much for this great political experiment.
1
The facts are on the side of impeachment and yet Trump's minions have been effective in warding off that truth because Republicans are much better at putting on a show than Democrats.
There needs to be a tactical response approach that allows the Democratic Representatives to immediately follow GOP lies and obfuscation after every GOP member's floor time. They must present rejections of specious and off topic GOP arguments when they count the most, by having competent staff, working in the background, preparing responses that reject GOP arguments, immediately.
The first minute of some of the next Democratic speaker's allotted time should be devoted to replying directly to the argument just presented. That would be a debate that can work to expose the truth. And the truth "may" just keep America free.
2
Charles, you make reference to the strength Trump has among voters resulting in the fear that senators have in crossing Trump. Why? It is interesting to me that so many still support him. I wondered why until I started watching a little Fox news. While it is nauseating for the most part it illustrates the reason America is or appears to be so divided. There was a time when the news was the news and fairly close in what was reported. I guess what I’m saying is if Fox News disappeared so would the support for Trump. I am not sure what the answer is but I am sure America is risk is both a democracy and leader of the free world if this polarization continues.
4
I understand that precedent restrains the remains three former living US Presidents - George W, Clinton and Obama - from making statements about this issue. But, never before has our country faced such a crisis! Clinton, obviously may not want to weigh in. But, for the sake of our democracy and standing in the world, both Bush and Obama should make a joint (non-partisan) statement declaring that what trump has done, and is doing, is a grave threat to the US. Maybe, just maybe, that might wake up the republicans in the Senate, and the trump voters who get their 'facts' from faux news.
4
Impeachment is a victory for the republicans and the Democrats are to blind to see it. Trumps fund raising has increased and his backers are strengthened by tell the people look at how the left wants to disregard the views of the non coastal elite it plays right into Trumps hands
2
"Impeachment in the House is the victory." ? A victory would be recognition of Trumps's failure s as president by the Senate Republicans. Voting McConnell out would be a victory. The "victory" in the House was made possible because American voters realized what an abject failure Trump leadership is and changed the majority.
No, Charles, the House impeachment is exactly half a victory. Trump voted out will be the whole win because it will involve a Senate cleansing too.
4
The presidency is a lot more than just occupying the White House. It is the ability to command the military, sign legislation, make executive decisions, and myriad other powers and duties.
The White House is symbolic, but it is not necessary. Besides, Trump doesn't spend much time there anyway. One trip to Mar-a-Lago or Trump Tower, New York, and you could change the locks.
If the Senate votes for removal, the next president would need to be be sworn in immediately. The rules say that it would be Mike Pence.
What happens if he fails to cooperate? He has always been a Trump loyalist; if he shows up to be sworn in, that would be the ultimate betrayal. What happens if he sticks by Trump and fails to take the oath? Would you swear in Nancy Pelosi while the Vice President still holds the office?
Would all that be enough to convince at least some of his supporters that he needs to be voted out in 2020? Or are they really that hopeless?
2
Sadly, we may at least get, with impeachment and no removal, a "time out" for the Toddler-in-Chief. Clearly, Muller's report didn't do it--he began his extortion effort the day after Muller's testimony--but hopefully this will curtail some of his worst instincts and impulses. One can be optimistic, right?
We are amid the great battle described in countless philosophical and historical events: those fighting for moral and ethical “righteousness” and those fighting for personal gain. This battle now rejoins as it has so often in the past, throughout mankind’s reign on earth.
The righteous do not always win, but the righteous do commit to necessary action. The fight itself remains. There, within our comportment during the battle, we see the clarity of the righteous cause even though the cause is not always successful.
We are seeing how the arc of justice bends. We are part of that inexorable bending, and the battle we enjoin is the fulcrum upon which the bending occurs.
4
Crowdfunding paid for the base (plinth) of the Statue of Liberty in the 1880s.
Now we need to crowdfund a National Failures of Governance Museum with branches in separate locations for federal Executive, Legislative, Judicial branches. Build actual marble, etc. edifices and endow them. The museum should educate not about policy differences or personal behavior lapses but grave failures to uphold enumerated duties in the Constitution as it existed at the time of the officeholders.
We entrust officeholders to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died or suffered severe injuries to support constitutional government. Officeholders who fail their oath of office, whether by doing the actual deeds or by failing to stop or to punish grave offenses against the Constitution deserve enduring recognition.
4
The thing about cult leaders is that devotion to them does not age well after their time is past.
Will the majority of trump supporters look back upon trump with the same fervid affection once the march of time has taken its toll on trump (which, honestly, is not very far off)?
Do they have video clips comparable to "Mr. Gorbachov, tear down this wall!" and "It's morning in America" to savor and use to burnish the legend? (PS the legend of Reagan is now irretrievable to Republicans -- trump and the Republicans have seen to that)
No, the lingering odor will be impeachment, buttressed by clear and unrefuted grounds for impeachment.
Cults recede into guilty silence once the march of time tramples their leader. Impeachment has already stiffened the grinding boot heels of time.
3
Impeachment in the House is a victory but, even if the Senate votes to convict him, there is no means to remove him from office. What good is impeachment, then, if the president is allowed to continue with his destructive ways. This makes president is above the law.
If I were Trump, and I thought I might be removed, the first thing I'd do is figure out a way to get rid of Justice Roberts. Without the Chief Justice, there would be no one to preside over the trial in the Senate, and no one to swear in the next president.
Meanwhile:
"Do you really want a President Mike Pence? "
I always thought Mike Pence was impeachment insurance even before the election. But with just a short time in office, he might not have time to do much harm.
In the short term, Repubs are successful at creating side issues. THeir constituents will hear that the FBI acted badly rather than that the FBI had reason to conduct a Russia investigation.
In the long term, the Repubs will be remembered as oath breakers and suborners of the constitution championing a man who steals from charity (Gail Collins) and jails children after separating them from their parents.
Trump is a perfect symbol for their party and an exemplar of what they hold dear.
7
With sober acknowledgement that you are probably right i will try to find solace in the assumption that impeachment in the house will serve a purpose. The senate will however prove there is no justice.
4
The scary thing is, when he is not removed, he will be emboldened. Like when the Mueller report said he committed crimes, but a sitting president could not be charged. Hinting at the necessity for impeachment. But apparently that wasn't direct and obvious enough.
And like every other time, he will double down. He will know that Dems will not reach for a 2nd impeachment attempt. He will see his polling losses to the top Dems in the field and nothing to lose. I shudder at the thought of what he may then do.
5
I agree that impeachment makes an important statement. There is nobility in standing up for the principles on which the American republic was founded, especially now when those principles are endangered by the authoritarian proclivities of President Trump.
But impeachment will be a hollow victory, because the Republicans will almost certainly be unanimous, or near unanimous, in their opposition. Were they willing to acknowledge that Trump's conduct was wrong, even while denying that it amounts to an impeachable offense, there would still be hope for the country.
Alas, the party line among Republicans is that the president did nothing wrong. More than that, Republicans echo Trump in saying any wrongdoing that occurred was in fact committed by the president's critics. Republicans have made it clear that their loyalty is no longer to the constitution or the rule of law. They are loyal only to Trump.
The preservation of liberty requires more than good institutions. It requires that these institutions be staffed by good persons committed to the principles of a free government. When this condition is no longer satisfied --when the Republican party elevates loyalty to one man above reverence for the constitution --government of the people, by the people, and for the people is in mortal danger.
4
@Stephen N
and the depravity of the republicans is magnified exponentially by the fact they have chosen to be devoted to such an icky person, the personification of graft.
Senate majority leader has choice: country or party comes first.
Worry about being re elected only maters, history will tell unflattering picture of Senator.
Put country first and loss re election, history will be written of senator who had courage to say "no one above the law."
1
I agree with your analysis. I only wish the Democrats in the House had gone to court to try to compel witnesses to testify and to obtain documents.
I know why they chose not to do so. But even if Trump could have run out the clock with court delays, it would have been worth the effort.
5
@Mr. Grammar
Not sure about that. A couple days ago in his closing remarks Rep. Collins actually said something like " we do not accept your facts".
@Mr. Grammar the Democrats didn't go to court to compel testimony because it was always a political action and not a legal action.
so let us assume the extremely likely scenario outlined here is what happens. then just like with mueller, trump claims vindication and goes back to his business of rigging the election. what then?
2
@Lucretious
Democrats focus on registering voters who support Democrats. Sue over voter suppression and assist Democrats to get to the polls to vote. 2020 is key.
The Senate's failure to deliver justice will give voters the opportunity to do in in November. Impeachment and then rejection at the polls is not a bad outcome.
4
Mr. Blow is correct that impeachment in the House is the victory. It also is the only practical hope for the country in the long run. Had the Democrats decided not to pursue impeachment because the Senate would not vote to convict, then they would be morally compromised, just as the Republicans already are. The impeachment may or may not cost the Democrats the 2020 election, but someone had to do the Right Thing at this pivotal moment or there would be no one around in the aftermath of the debacle that is the Trump presidency to occupy the moral high ground. If no one is willing, at this moment, to say “Enough!”, then, as a practical matter, there is no way to put a functioning democracy back together in the future. Let’s hope, for all our sakes, that luck shines on America and we are provided that opportunity, although it is difficult to argue that we are deserving of such a chance.
8
What a wonderful Christmas present it would be if our Senate Republicans decided to stand up for our country, our democracy, our constitution, the people of this country and the rule of law. I pray the Senate will vote to Impeach. I have been praying every night for this Christmas present, how can God deny me?
4
The Republican Party will not meaningfully survive if they fail to convict in the senate. Conviction by the senate would demonstrate Republican senators take their oath of office seriously. There is no neutrality in this, no party line, no place to hide. Let’s see if there are at least 4 heroes amongst them.
16
What goes around comes around. Democrats need to be aware of setting precedents. Harry Reid used the nuclear option for judges. Wonder how he felt when the Republicans extended its use to the Supreme Court. Dems called for Resistance to Trump as soon as he was elected. Can't wait for the next Democrat president as the Democrats have laid the blueprint for obstruction, maybe even impeachment. I miss the days of compromise when each side was willing to give a little. The rabid bases of both parties will not accept any compromise and threaten to primary anyone who dare not follow the orthodoxy they espouse. Good luck to all of us, we're going to need it.
5
@F451
You make a good point! Out of office, everyone opposes consolidation of power by the Executive, or 'nuclear options' to overturn rules of order; when they take a majority in either house of Congress or capture the Oval Office, each party in turn seems determined to re-establish its own hypocrisy by doubling-down on the norm-breaking behavior of its predecessor.
Its an iterated prisoner's dilemma.
Problem is, the only known game-theoretic solution to an iterated prisoner's dilemma is for one party to accept a sub-game, sub-optimal solution -- to forgo retaliation; accept a "this for two thats". But as you say, partisans in each party will continue to insist that the other side started this vicious cycle, and that their team should be the first to offer concessions...
We the People: sometimes, it seems None of Us are a dumb as All of Us.
It's imperative that the House of Representatives follow through and vote to impeach the POTUS, Donald Trump. The American People deserve to know as many of the FACTS surrounding the corrupt and criminal actions of our current President.Impeaching the President in the House is an important, pinnacle step to insure that Donald Trump is not reelected in 2020. The Impeachment of Trump in the House lays the foundation that will reveal important information that will empower American Citizens to clearly understand WHY Donald Trump should not be elected in the 2020 Presidential Election. The following impeachment proceedings in the Senate will also provide Americans with a better understanding of which Senators need to be voted out of office in 2020 due to their failure to responsibly represent their constituents.
8
I have not even watched the Impeachment debate in the House. The outcome was known and there were problems with the process. I felt Schiff should have testified and the failure to make him do so made the House debate nothing but a charade.
REgardless of what happened in Ukraine, and I do feel Biden and son should have been investigated over their actions, it will not change the way I vote next year. I will vote for Trump as I am scared of the Democrats and their policy proposals.
5
@Judy Weller
"I am scared of the Democrats and their policy proposals."
Oh I know-affordable health care, clean air and water, affordable college-I shudder.
9
@Judy Weller — so you don’t think Trump and Giuliani conspired to hold up military aid to Ukraine, unless they agree to investigate the Bidens? (On real or trumped-up charges?)
Or you do believe the overwhelming evidence that this occurred, but just don’t care that laws were broken?
4
There's a long time between now and the elections in the fall of 2020. All of this will be forgotten by then.
2
@Bicycle Bob
Not likely to forget the short and clear articles of impeachment. No worry as Trump will do more terrible things, as usual.
Thank you Charles I agree. Your article is well written and impassioned. Yes this is the accomplishment. Nancy Pelosi is a
Goddess and the Democrats are all heroes because they did their jobs! I appreciate their persistence despite every attempt to discredit them.
14
What impels the House to forward its articles of impeachment to the Senate.
Let them wait, so that Trump is held in check, so that the courts have a little more time to rule on subpeonas.
If the Senate can delay a vote on a Supreme Court nominee for a year, the House wait for some further evidence warranting another article of impeachment.
Forward the Articles in another six months.
4
@Doug McKenna
Thanks Doug. Exactly what I have been saying. Let the thing hang out there for a few months before presenting it to the Senate. This will give Republicans more time to consider whether they really want to sacrifice their souls to save their hides.
2
Victories seem to be fewer and farther between since Nov '18. Doing the right thing, or even knowing what the right or legal options are against a tyrannical leader, has caught us off guard. Thanks for the reassurances.
I agree with Blow. Impeaching Trump is a rebuke even if, ultimately, it's a toothless rebuke. It's all we have.
That said, I'm not satisfied with only a rebuke. This entire episode has exposed our Constitutional system as weak and ineffective in checking an abusive President and also easily exploited by foreign and domestic enemies of democracy.
We can't simply shrug at that and hope that maybe an election will solve the problem. Part of our challenge is that our elections are too easily manipulated—and the people and bodies that come to power through them are not representative of the majority. We also now know that our system of supposedly co-equal branches with strong checks and balances is flimflam.
The United States is facing a triple crisis right now. The first is a crisis of culture, with the nation deeply divided between two factions that have radically different views of what the nation should be. The second is a crisis of politics, where our choices and beliefs are being manipulated by marketers working through both traditional and new media and empowered by "big data" who represent self-interested parties both foreign and domestic. The third is a Constitutional crisis—the fact that the system designed by our Founders is failing.
We can reassure ourselves by pretending things will return to normal. They won't. Our world is collapsing around us. We need a plan for drastic action—because what worked yesterday will not work anymore.
7
I have another question, Charles. What happens when (if) Trump is defeated next November?
Does Trump declare the election invalid due to "rampant voter fraud" & not leave the White House? What do we do then?
Is there any doubt he will never leave the White House willingly? We've never faced a threat to democracy coming from the Oval Office. We are totally unprepared for such an occurrence.
I think we need to start discussing what we will do, when Trump's term in office ends & he refuses to acknowledge the end of his term. I predicted immediately after his election that we would need to drag him out of the White House in chains. I'm more convinced than ever that we will need to do just that.
3
It would actually give me extreme pleasure and restore my troubled psyche to watch on national television, but not Fox, Trump being literally dragged out of the White House in chains.
Here is hoping !
6
This is why we have a National Guard.
@Bernie Oakley
A D.C. Federal judge would order removal, and the U.S. Marshalls would remove him, as they evict anyone ordered removed.
"These people are now devoted to Trump, lost in his lies. Trumpism is their religion and Trump is their God, which has relegated Republicans in Congress to Trump’s devoted cherubim."
Very sad times for America.
All that you say is certainly true. Though, there is a significant difference between now and the many other difficult challenges our nation has faced. An acquittal in the Senate will, by precedent, render the separation of powers and a good bit of our constitution null and void. Like other autocrat led nations, we will become a democracy in name only.
8
"I have to constantly remind people that impeachment in the House is the victory. The Senate is a lost cause,..."
True, but Donald Trump has proven repeatedly, he's a spin-master. He would loudly claim that Dems TRIED to impeach him, but he was acquitted by the Senate. And that either party with a one-vote-majority can impeach a president of the other party on cooked up causes. That means nothing. And that his impeachment was just a futile exercise.
A cleverer strategy/tactic for the Dems to undertake is negotiate with Trump to declare that he wouldn't run for 2020, If he fulfills that pledge, the Dems would not vote to impeach him in the full House. He can thus escape the indignation of impeachment and can complete his current term.
If he refuses to go along with this, which is not at all unlikely, there is at least an even chance that he would be defeated in 2020; if not he could still be impeached by the House, assuming Dems will hold the majority in the House, with a strong possibility that a plurality of say, 51-49 vote in the US Senate to convict him, even if he's not ousted.
For the Dems, the advantages are two-fold: There’s a not an unfair chance that Trump will be reelected with the Republican Senate under Mitch McConnell. The public doesn’t support impeachment and removal. Republicans would not support impeachment. The net result could be a negative image for the Dems.
1
It's a given that Senate Republicans will give Trump a pass on impeachment. But that's ok. Impeachment by the House will keep him somewhat in line. He'll have to wear it as if it was an ankle monitoring bracelet. Maybe then, we won't have to listen to him declare himself the greatest President ever. But I wouldn't count on it.
4
The ultimate victory will be a repudiation of Trump and his supporters in the House and Senate at the polls in November. I hope we can fend off foreign interference, voter suppression and rigged election machines to achieve that victory.
8
There is one consequence beyond impeachment: every Republican and every Democrat will go on record either putting country above party or party above country.
The record of their vote will be forever part of American history and history will judge who upheld their oath of office and who put Party over country. Not even waiting for history to judge, our children and grandchildren will judge what Congress does in the next months. Republicans can lie, but their families will know the truth.
26
The only victory I can imagine is the defeat of Trump in the 2020 election and a Democratic majority in the Senate so that the president can choose Supreme Court justices who support a transparent and fair democratic process. I think it would be best for the ordinary American people to do this in an election so that they can take ownership in this victory.
Unfortunately, the topic chosen from a wide variety of options to drive the impeachment process inspires hard core Democrats, but is of little interest to most working class people and swing voters. The Republicans will have the last words in the Senate on this. So I don't see how it helps build a majority in the electoral college in 2020.
But I hope I'm wrong.
To my mind, it's the John Roberts angle that is the most compelling. I cannot wait to see how he handles the Senate impeachment trial. His entire legacy and his court will depend on his actions during this single event. Let's see him get out of this one.
16
If Roberts acts as a true lawyer and judge, he will pose it this way: 1. There are things that Trump can do that affect only his election prospects, and that’s ok. 2. There are things he can do which, if done in good faith, even if incorrect, affect only foreign policy, and that’s ok. 3. There are things that he can do that affect both electoral prospects and foreign policy. Is that ok? On these matters of dual intent, by what legal standard do we judge what is appropriate?
The hearing wherein the scholars testified should have clarified this issue. That’s what the expert testimony is for. Unfortunately, it did not. Supporters of the President in Congress should have expanded on this idea of dual intent, and they did not. As a preliminary matter, it is incontrovertible that the President acted in his own interest. His defenders here should therefore bring forth evidence that there was a dual intent, and his detractors must bring forth a standard for judging that intent pursuant to the constitution.
1
@Sbaty
Rehnquist's legacy is hardly based on the Clinton trial. I think you're imagining things.
2
@Sbaty I have been telling friends and family that this will all land in the lap of Chief Justice Roberts one way or the other. In the Senate and at the Supreme Court. I have hopes he will do what is needed to salvage the Constitution, but not passively sitting by I have encouraged them to contact him by snail mail and email. The Court's contact page is here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/contact/contactus.aspx
Write, call or email the court.
"It’s nearly impossible to call them to virtue when they are in the midst of their depravity."
What if it was Ted Cruz that was President. How different would that be? And in what way? And how different would the reaction within the party be to him? And how exactly did Pence sell his soul when he joined Trump's ticket? What soul was there to begin with?
6
An interesting question is what, if Trump loses in 2020, will be done if he declares the election illegitimate and refuses to leave. With any other POTUS such a scenario would be inconceivable, but sadly not with Trump.
9
Law without justice is nothing more than a threat of force!
Violence by derivative effect is still violence.
Good news! If you have money you can beat the system. But, very few of us have that kind of money. Depending on the situation, even if you are solidly middle class or upper middle class, you may not have enough. Perhaps we need free legal care?
Trump has enough. Remember the Golden Rule. "He who has the gold, makes the rules."
The case against Trump is quite simple, but our legal systems are often about cognitive bias, technicalities, theatrics and money.
3
This is the Al Capone impeachment. It was widely known that Al Capone was head of a criminal organization who did far worse than tax evasion, but it was tax evasion for which the Federal government was able to convict him. Most Democrats and many others believe Trump has done far worse in terms of corrupt intent than the Ukraine affair, but this is the grounds upon which the Democrats in the House have a comprehensible narrative and enough votes to impeach. The Republican have a point in that it is questionable whether had this been Trump’s singular egregious transgression, it would have triggered impeachment, rather than something like censure or just grousing on the talk shows.
If President Trump is impeached but not convicted then the lesson is that so long as a President’s party holds at least 1/3 of the seats in the Senate, he is effectively above the law while he is in office. This is not victory, and raises the question whether it would be better or worse for the country for Trump to be indicted for his crimes after he leaves office, assuming he doesn’t pardon himself before he leaves office.
3
The House (and the Senate, for that matter) should be doing more punishing.
Censure, non-binding resolution, whatever they got. For each violation of the oath of office.
It would be good too if the impeachment trial could end in a guilty verdict with a punishment less than removal from office. He might actually get convicted.
1
I hope that, at the very least, the Senate will be respectful enough of the process to permit witness testimony. I don't expect that to change the result, but it might change some voters' minds.
1
@Freonpsandoz
I can assure you that the majority will handle witnesses just as it did in the House. Expect to see Schiff and Hunter Biden called to testify. Those three law professors, not so much.
1
Call me crazy, but I am still maintaining hope. I do think we can get a majority of the Senate (Collins, Murkowski, Romney and some others; Lamar Alexander has always seemed principled to me at a distance), but I hold out hope for more. The break with Nixon came very late, after a spate of court rulings against him. That drumbeat has begun with Trump.
John Roberts, as presiding judge of the Senate trial, will likely have the power (if asked by Adam Schiff, who I expect to be the prosecutor) to subpoena witnesses like Bolton, Mulvaney, even Pence. He loves the Constitution, even if he sees it slightly differently than I do, and will likely not allow a whitewash: the judge controls a courtroom, not the jurors (the Senators).
But here's what I really hope he does--sequester the jury and make them, like a real jury, deliberate and vote in secret. That would allow many more Republicans to vote to save the Republic.
16
@Leigh LoPresti hear hear. This is the most practical of the optimistic comments I have read.
2
Mr Blows animus is obvious what he is not discussing is the fundamental shifting of the balance of power for our Republic. My fear is without a bipartisan impeachment vote for high crimes committed by President Trump the House of Representatives is lowering the bar for future presidents to be censured or impeached by a majority of the members of the house members belonging to the opposing party. The framers of our Constitution were acutely aware of this issue and put in safeguards balancing the powers of the three branches of government. Having a House of Representatives with democrats in majority and the Senate with a republican majority the outcome for Trumps impeachment is obvious: he will not be impeached unless he committed high crimes. The question becomes what does impeachment accomplish? The impeachment process has polarizatized our country where extremism by both parties creates political gridlock. Regardless of who will win the 2020 Presidental election the candidates platforms will have little chance of being voted into law in this current political environment. Be careful what you wish for the political swamp is getting murkier.
2
I see what you're saying and history demands this path but victory is determined by results. If impeached, not removed, and re-elected then Trump wins big in the short term.
1
Charles, thanks for summing sum up how an outlaw president aims to obliterate the one small faction of Congress that hasn't bent to his will: The House of Representatives.
Yes it's a victory--of sorts, just like any resistance move aimed at curbing the voracious appetite of a man who won't be content until he's totally smashed the Constitution.
Democrats had no choice; Trump knows it. Word has it that he's so obsessed with his legacy that the asterisk of House Impeachment is driving him totally batty. To abdicate that one small triumph would make me doubt my sanity that the House holds any power at all.
Trump isn't in danger of becoming an autocrat because he already is one, as his AG sets about to "prove" a conspiracy where there is none just to satisfy the president's rage.
Whether the autocrat stays in power hinges on how many voters understand what's in play in 2020: the survival of this republic.
42
As the old labor union song says, "Which side are you on?"
We know that the Senate will vote to acquit Trump. It is possible (although I hope not) that Jones and Manchin will cross the line and vote against removal. It is possible that Romney (because he alone has nothing to fear from a Trumpist primary challenge) and one or two others will cross the line in the other way.
A party line (or mostly party line) vote in the Senate will make it clear to everyone that the Republican party has joined the living dead. It is now a zombie occupied by the cult of Trump.
And that will make it clear to that part of the American people that are not a part of the cult of personality dedicated to the Great Leader that to save us they must, repeat must, vote for the Democratic candidates for President, Senator, and Representative next November. Not voting or voting third-party is a vote for Trump.
You may not agree with everything the Democratic candidate stands for. But remember that if you are not a Trump supporter already four more years of Trump will be the end of everything that you stand for.
13
Well, if it is a victory it is a hollow one. Trump has better than even odds to be re-elected, and those Americans who will see his impeachment as a rebuke already loathed Trump, and his supporters will see a Senate aquittal as complete vindication. Net result: nobody's view of Trump will have changed. And after Senate aquittal, impeachment will be seen as weak and ineffective. Not much of a "victory."
4
". . . impeachment by the House is the strongest rebuke America has ever been willing to give a president."
Except for one little problem.
Unless more than a few House Republicans vote to impeach, what we have is just another political assault by the Democratic party upon a President they, much of the media, and most commenters here detest, and whom they fear will be reelected.
It will not be a rebuke, strong or weak, by the House. That penalizing rebuke requires bipartisan support.
So, it will be an annoyance. No minds will have changed. Best outcome Democrats and their ilk can hope for is a quick, quiet Senate trial with an uneventful acquittance that permits them to smooth over their troubles with an annoyed electorate.
They should have gone for censure.
9
"There are so many men and women who spend years or even decades wasting away in prisons — sometimes on death row — for crimes that they didn’t commit. How can we look those people in the face if we let this man who has committed his offense walk away out in the open without rebuke?"
Yes, how can we? And how do we teach our children to be law abiding? How can we expect people to follow laws they don't like? How? How? How?
This is one of the most depressing things I've read lately in a world of really depressing stuff.
3
What kind of a democracy elects a person like Donald Trump to the highest office in the land? Impeachment will not allow the problem to go away. There are fundamental changes that must be made and enforced. Right now only 50% of the population votes, and they are the "haves."
8
What I don't get is how the GOP senators think this will turn out. With acquittal, Trump is going to immediately begin to break laws and violate the constitution out in the open, without the least amount of subterfuge. If the senators then appoint Trump as president for life and make the position hereditary (expect King Donald II in about 5 - 10 years), I suppose I'll finally get what they've been driving at.
During this entire process, I have also been astounded by republican fealty to the occupant of the Oval Office. As a veteran, as an American citizen, I have been both alarmed and distressed by every single thing this administration has done. But, having read this piece today, I actually do feel better. Thanks, Charles.
19
@Thomas Thank you for your service...And i also feel better after reading this piece..
One and done is not enough for me. Should Trump still be standing, there are plenty more charges that could follow and obstruction of Congress could be added to the following: emolument violations, campaign finance violations, other abuse of power charges, etc. By keeping the impeachment counts narrowly focused, House Dems kept open the option of multiple impeachments. They might as well keep it up; there is little to lose. The Democrat base just keeps getting more committed when they see their representatives perform honorably and intelligently in contrast to the Republican representatives. Perhaps those in neither camp could see the contrast and vote accordingly.
14
So many good points here Charles, the most compelling:
Republicans could have acted early on in this obvious and embarrassing mess known as Trumpism, back when he was weak - in 2015 we already had plenty of reason to believe every single thing that has happened was likely, yet Republicans completely failed to put country first and allowed him to become their nominee, then their representative, and now their savior.
8
Time will tell.
We have to hope that some Republican senators will put country and honor over party.
If not, perhaps those in the senate who do vote to convict can put such tremendous pressure on Trump's resignation he will go.
The other consolation is with a large voter turnout Trump will not get elected, then he can be indicted for his many crimes.
6
I am pretty sure that impeachment will render him incapable of receiving a presidential pardon, thus he could be prosecuted for his various criminal actions once he is out of office. That's pretty cool.
14
He will be exonerated by the Senate... so what is there to pardon?
The following paragraph applies to electoral defeat as much as to conviction by the Senate:
“There is nothing that suggests Trump would willingly depart. Then what? The Constitution doesn’t exactly outline the serving of an eviction notice from the White House or the calling of moving vans. What if Trump rejected a Senate conviction as invalid? What if he accepted it and said he was leaving in a year, only after his term ended? Would we send marshalls into the White House to drag him, his wife and son out?”
Let’s focus especially on the last sentence, with its problematic “we”. You and I have have no power to deploy the marshals. Apparently that power rests with the federal courts, for which the US Marshals Service serves “criminal process”. I have no idea whether overstaying one’s lease at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is a qualifying offense, or whether any court would have jurisdiction in such a case, or — you see how rapidly I’m getting out of my depth.
It seems too fantastic to contemplate, and yet it’s the kind of thing we’re learning to contemplate in these times. Who, exactly, has the authority to remove Donald Trump from the White House if he refuses to go? And is it someone who has not already been suborned by Trump?
4
The situation in the US reminds me of George Orwells 1984 where the government determines what is the truth and forces people to believe the false truth or they will be punished. The American people go with open eyes in a disaster and the Democrats are too soft in their measures. They fight with wooden sticks against a hi-tech equipped army. They need to find strong and convincing evidence regarding the incorrect activities of the current government so that the people will not to elect them again in 2020.
8
Mr. Blow's commentary should be sub-headlined, "been down so long it looks like up to me". Impeachment in the House would be a Pyrrhic victory at best, insofar as the House committee has chosen only two articles of impeachment from the cornucopia of impeachable offenses Trump has and continues to commit. The Democrats are choosing fast and furious over slow and deliberate hearings that would more likely resonate with the electorate as November 2020 draws near. Americans, even if they're paying attention have famously short memories, and an expedited impeachment may only be a distant echo with the passage of time. Of course, as has been posited, Trump could be impeached serially for his many offenses, but divisions within the House make that possibility highly unlikely. Trumpism is a monster that has lurked in the shadows of Democratic and Republican policies for decades. Now that it has been unleashed, it has subsumed the Republican party by becoming its fulfillment, and Democrats are ill-prepared to destroy it.
5
Americans have short memory, huh? That's quite a lousy justification for a widespread carelessness stemming from your every-man-for-himself mentality.
Ah, yes, Richard Fariña...
There is no victory in any of this. Trump isn't the problem, Trump is just a symptom. The corporate capture of our democracy came about long before the Russians tried it. As long as money drives political campaigns our freedom as well as our democracy will be for sale.
50
@Ed Robinson
Did you read the recent NYTimes op-ed by Edsall revealing that corporations may have started the ball rolling, but things quickly got out of hand? They created a Frankenstein monster that is now out of their control.
The Tea Party, now the Freedom Caucus, and others are flying the plane. Our destination? The Political Twilight Zone where alternative facts are accepted and truth is whatever you want to believe.
7
I agree with Charles' assessment but remain troubled and discouraged that even with the clarity of evidence presented in the Impeachment inquiry, and the simplicity of the articles of impeachment, written in clear, easily-understood language, so many Americans remain indifferent or oblivious to the severity of these charges and Trump's threat to our democracy. We live in an age of constant electronic distraction and social media echo chambers, "alternative facts," and denial of factual evidence. The Impeachment is a "victory" in standing up for truth, but the daily barrage of Trump chaos and incivility will continue. Our only hope it to oust him in 2020. But of course, should he lose, he will obstruct the outcome with more conspiracy theories and the chaos will continue. I naively thought some Republicans might turn on Trump in the face of clear evidence; I was wrong.
15
This great article reminds me of the nagging thought that the framers made a fatal mistake in allowing the verdict in an impeachment trial to be all but predetermined on partisan lines.
The established norm is that impeachment is a political process rather than a criminal or llegal one. Bad idea, imo.
Here, we see an ominous standard being set whereby the coercion of a foreign government by a president to influence a U.S. election in his favor possibly shrugged off in the Senate on purely partisan grounds.
Justice is certainly not served and the pattern is set for future presidents to do anything they want.
8
The moral victory will last a lot longer than the political one, whichever side wins the latter.
Perhaps it will occur to congressional Republicans still planning to run in 2020 that a vote to acquit Mr. Trump means their own candidacies have indicated they're just fine with an election process that may have an element of doubt.
Also, the long term moral victory will happen when Mr. Trump realizes the U.S. doesn't usually name airports, bridges, schools, battleships, roads, dams, and more for impeached presidents.
9
I do not understand the reluctance to admit that impeachment is no longer a check on executive power. The entire foundation of American Democracy has crumbled and nothing can be done to repair the foundation. America is at war with itself and the anger and hostility will only increase as the call for compromise diminishes.
Even practical solutions like different countries become fodder for increased anger and outrage.
The Americas are drifting further apart and there is no desire to bring them back together. Elections will solve nothing unless they involve totally new constitutions.
Louie Gohmert said it best Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be professors at America's leading law schools.
2
Of course, McConnell will ensure that there is no more due process for impeachment in the Senate than there was for Merrick Garland's nomination for the Supreme Court.
And America is still supposed to be a beacon for democracy?
81
The House is our most democratic branch of government. It was designed to be. It's representation is closest to proportional and its makeup is the most diverse. This impeachment is the majority of the American people, not the electoral college, not a SCOTUS appointed from Yale and Harvard, saying "We do not accept that this is how our government should operate." Let history record that this is what the American people said in 2019.
55
@fbraconi
I further look forward to redistricting committees instead of corrupt GOP legislatures begin to draw lines - and states like Michigan and North Carolina who vote one way state-wide but end up (non)represented by the opposite party may be sorted out.
Sadly that doesn't do much for the Senate which now has power beyond what the Founders saw in states where votes are cheap.
2
The impeachment process will not result in a "political victory" for anyone. It will not realistically result in Trump's leaving office. It is a test of our institutions, however, and it is worth pursuing for that reason alone. And we will likely learn at least two things, at least one of which was already suspected: One is that Republicans will ignore an impeachable offense because they have put their party's interest above the country's. The other is that the country actually needs decent Republicans to survive, and the fact that the entire party is content on burning the country to the ground to "save" it from Democrats should make people aware that an even more troubled political future is coming. Further confirmation of our fears may be useful in a limited sense, but it is not a "victory" for anyone. Only a Democrat could call an impeachment case that fizzles away in the Senate a "victory."
2
In case you haven’t noticed there are no “decent Republicans”. Even Murkowski who has been thought to be a dying breed of moderate has failed the test so far.
The only chance for our democracy is for the existing Republican Party to go the way of the Whigs and a new right-of-center moderate party not controlled by oligarch masters to rise up. Then the idea of a two party system may be revived.
It’s too much to expect a multi-party Parliamentarian approach to be established.
1
Since all House and Senate members are elected by the people,
impeachment de facto is political. A president with 78% approval such as Ike had would never be impeached, whereas Trump's impending impeachment is a reflection of his minimus political support. Polls indicate that a greater % of the electorate want Trump immediately removed than voted for him in the first place.
So a president with minority popular vote support when the electoral college voted for him has lost some popular support since 2016 and his adversaries feel strongly against him. That is the political story underlying Trump's impeachment. A generally well loved president like Ike would not be impeached.
4
The GOP could have stood up to Trump when he first announced he was going to run. They didn't! Why should they? Trump talked in public about GOP strategy dating back to Nixon. The press could have pointed out Trump flaws. Instead, they kept asking, "What about her e-mails?" During the debates, Clinton should have called out Donnie's hovering. She was too polite. The networks saw Trump as great for the ratings. Programs like "Morning Joe" when thrilled when Donnie called while they were on the air. Joe and Mika changed their tune when Trump attacked them. There's the old warning, "Lose Lips Sink Ships;" with Trump and his enablers, the new version is "Silence Sinks This Country!"
15
@Robert -- "The GOP could have stood up to Trump when he first announced he was going to run."
They did not have any other strong candidates. Trump stepped into a void. That's how he did it, lucky timing. That's why he was as surprised as anyone that his market branding exercise turned into a win and a Presidency.
3
@Robert - - - Readers of the news will recall that NOTHING recommended by Pres. Trump passed through Congress until Decmer 2017. The D.C. culture convinced them that there was something to all the propaganda war against this innocent man.
There are still ten or so Republicans who can only speak ill of this man despite the seven million new jobs, but thank goodness most of them lost their elective offices.
1
@L osservatore Donald J Trump is not an innocent man. He has done nothing good in his life. He and his enablers have harmed this country. It will take decades to repair the damage. He is the laughing stock of the world. He is self-centered. He has no compassion for anyone.
This is an opportunity to impeach all the Republicans who refuse to hold Trump accountable.
And even if the Republicans don't remove him, investigations and damaging information can continue throughout 2020.
In the next election Democrats should make defense of Trump the defining issue for all Republicans.
18
what makes Trump any worse than Obama and Clinton? The problem here is we tend to desensitize based on our personal bias. In my opinion (and many others) the Clintons had/have over tens if not hundreds of reasons to be prosecuted, impeached, etc. The Dems are not helping themselves here, if anything they are empowering republicans to support their president and lessoning their chances in 2020.
5
@Eric
It's quite easy to make a statement like, "the Clintons had over tens if not hundreds of reasons to be prosecuted, impeached, etc." Other than fevered dreams of Fox news pundits and right wing talk radio hosts, this is a statement without basis in fact or reality.
I realize that we are tribal in our support for one party over another. This has been the case going back to the founding of the country. Each side accusing the others leaders of malfeasance and criminality. The difference here is that in depth criminal probes into Trump, have lead to multiple convictions of people involved with his political campaign, as well as people he appointed to his administration. (Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, Roger Stone, Michael Cohen, etc...) Each one of these cases had to withstand an actual trial, jurors and judges who were swayed by actual facts and true events.
If you believe, that when President Trump (or unindicted co-conspiritor 1) is put in front of similar court proceedings, will somehow be found innocent of all crimes, well I just might know a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in!
22
Agree. Impeachment in the House IS the victory. Yes, Trump's cultist base has been energized by the non-stop grievances (who knew Republicans could be such real snowflakes?) and constant stirring of the pot by the right-wing rage machine. But a vast majority of Americans have had enough of Trump. The ways he and his sycophants in the Republican leadership have degraded our republic are astounding. When time comes to vote in 2020, women and independents and even many, many conservatives will vote for a Democratic House, Senate and presidential candidate. Americans know the damage to democracy under Trump has been severe. No amount of state propaganda from Fox can change that fact. The day of reckoning is coming. It will be a blue wave and must be.
12
All of us have had plenty of experience with misleading advertising. Imagine that there are only two brands of laundry detergent. Brand Y's sales pitch is, 'Don't buy Brand X, it's no good, not only will it not get your clothes clean, it's guaranteed to make them even dirtier'. Not mentioned is that Brand Y is known to be no better, but since it's the only alternative, if you fall for their pitch you have to buy their brand so their sales increase. That's essentially what the Democrats' drive for impeachment is all about. Without saying it they're making the argument that they're blameless sweethearts and you should want them instead of that stinker, Mr. Trump, who they loudly assure you is no good, when in fact they're no better, and maybe worse! Would you be better off with a bunch of raving socialists in the White House who want to raise your taxes and politicize the economy to accommodate, reward and carry their lazy, unemployed (unemployable) hangers-on? Or might Mr. Trump be the better choice after all? At this point you might be thinking, 'a pox on both their houses', but that's not a choice you get to make, you have to buy one or the other.
5
@Ronald B. Duke
You have posited a false choice. "Raving socialists" via honest elections OR Mr. Trump and possibly compromised 2020 results.
Don't all of us deserve an honest presidential election next year, regardless of ideology?
@Ronald B. Duke -- There were and again are better Democrats. However, Blow and the NYT oppose them too, then and again now.
They WANT the bad Democrats, the Republican Lite "moderates" who won't do any of the things that so desperately need doing, but who will keep the wars going and not touch any of the gross tax cuts now in place..
I'm going to go against the grain and say the Senate is not a lost cause.
This vote, and the evidence presented in court, represent a clear and present danger to US security: the President himself.
I'm not convinced of Mitch McConnell's gestures toward seeking a total acquittal of the impeachment itself. I think he's scared. I think this is a desperate move.
I believe, in my heart, that the correct number of Republicans will come forward, perhaps even more than even needed to cross the 67 vote threshold. Call me crazy, I know, it sounds crazy.
We are facing an unprecedented violation of oath of office. No US President has risen to this level of malfeasance.
We'll see.
6
I would define victory as four Senate Republicans and all Democrats voting to remove Trump from office. A majority of Senators voting for removal would be a bipartisan rebuke. It would be incredibly disheartening if there are not at least four Republicans in the Senate that will go on record to issue the appropriate strongest condemnation of Trump's conduct.
427
I find it completely unsurprising that there are not four Senate Republicans who won't do something that will without a doubt see them primaried out of political existence, for the sake of pleasing some people who will never vote for them anyway.
36
I don’t want to dampen your hopes, but I don’t see that happening. At most we might (underlined and italicized) get two. There’s such deep entrenchment with Trump, I don’t know if Republicans can anymore see truth when it stares them in the face.
36
@Robert O. That is probably the best we can hope for, but the only way it will happen is if Romney grows a pair, and polls in Maine (Susan Collins), Colorado (Cory Gardner), North Carolina (Tom Tillis), Arizona (Martha McSally) show a majority in favor of impeachment, conviction, and removal and show voters are prepared to oust a Senator voting to acquit. A good number of GOP Senators have apparently conceded privately if it were a secret ballot they would vote for conviction and removal, but they fear a Trump-inspired primary opponent. Only by reversing that calculus will they acquire the courage of their convictions and there are at most the four prospects above and maybe Joni Ernst of Iowa. At this point, I would take one GOP Senator joining the 45 Democrats and 2 Independents (Angus King and Bernie Sanders).
33
From the outside looking in, didn't Nancy Pelosi settle on these two charges for two reasons? One, they are easily explained with obvious evidence already in the record and two, moderate Democrats in swing districts can vote in favour? If the Dems are unanimous in their vote tomorrow, they can then show they are unified that Trump's actions were above the law.
211
@Maureen Hulbert
Neither of these 2 articles accuse Trump of breaking any laws. what happened to quid pro quo, which morphed into bribery and extortion? Democrats and their media pundits made those accusations with every appearance on TV, every hour, every day for weeks and weeks. Now neither appear as articles of impeachment. why is that?
@Maureen Hulbert But it will not be unanimous. House Democrats in swing districts will vote against impeachment, thus giving cover to Senate Republicans to do the same thing. The difference is that the House Democrats who vote "no" do so knowing that Trump will be impeached in the House anyway. Regardless, those Democratics who vote "no" should be voted out of office along with the Republicans. They are cowards, declining to fulfill their oaths of office to defend and protect the Constitution.
3
@Free Markets
O.K. Let's have all pertinent witnesses (even the whistleblower) testity, and all relevent documents, phone records and transcripts, notes, etc. be made available during the Senate trial. This would undoubtedly serve justice for all.
Will this happen? Ask Mitch, the Republican majority, and Trump's lawyers. If it doesn't ask yourself, "why?"
2
While I agree that it is a victory of sorts to forever associate Trump with impeachment, it is absolutely not a victory that we've sunk so low that, even before it's voted on, even before a trial, most of us are assuming a foregone conclusion that the Senate will not take seriously their duty to hold Trump to account.
Here are two very obvious and indisputable facts that barely even get a mention anymore:
1. Trump, as Commander-in-Chief, sides with Russia, an adversary against our own intelligence and law enforcement. Moreover, he is derelict in his duty, refusing to protect our elections from the same adversary that attacked them in 2016.
2. Trump, as President, has an unmatched record of non-stop lying, his dishonestly so complete that our own allies and 60% of the people he serves no longer believe a word he says.
How is democracy sustainable if our leadership is unwilling or incapable of removing such an unfit person from power? As far as I'm concerned, the GOP actions forthwith will constitute grounds for their removal from office. We the People, are now the only body available to hold Donald Trump to account.
587
@Drew Emery
Finally, someone has said it--"We the people, are now the only body available to hold Donald Trump to account." Thank you for saying this, Drew. I have waited, sometimes it seems in vain, to see/hear someone remind the American people that it is up to us to take the next step. We still have the ballot. The Democratic party needs to help us realize this fact, even if it means repeating it ad nauseam, that solving the problem posed by the current administration in the WH is not a one-step process that ends with impeachment in the House. There is an upcoming election in which we must all be involved. Holding those in the Senate accountable who do not vote for impeachment means becoming educated about those who are up for re-election in 2020 and help them return to their homes earlier than they anticipated--the object of a lost election! That is the second step worth contemplating to avoid the self-defeating attitude that I hear too often from people! Thank you!
69
@Drew Emery Did you even vote in the last presidential election? We have no to blame but ourselves. Trump’s track record is a mile long. He is only behaving as advertised. I don’t know why everyone is so surprised.
5
@Drew Emery We the People need to remove the GOP members at the voting booth, one Senator at at time.
14
If Mr. Blow is correct, and impeachment in the House is the victory, it must be asked what this victory might amount to. Right now, I'm afraid it might be the last gasp of the rule of law as the governing principle of our country. Trump, his Republican allies and his agents (like Barr) have found breaking our democracy quite easy. To them, impeachment (like the Constitution) is simply a nuisance.
2
I totally agree with Mr. Blow. Trump has to be impeached by the House. It will be a stain on his name in the history books forever.
The Republican majority has sold out our country to Russia and they enable the tyrant Trump. Hopefully there are a few left with a conscience in the Senate.
13
@Nancy Diaz
Infuriatingly, Lindsey Graham, the foam-at-the-mouth demagogue defender of Trump AND Kavanaugh, won't be one of the Senators finding his lost integrity. Instead, Lying Lindsey will continue to wreak havoc on truth.
As probably the last holdout among southern states gasping to turn even a pitiful shade of purple, South Carolina struggles toward democracy under the demented howlings of Graham. Jaime Harrison, his worthy opponent, instead has an inspiring, Horatio Alger life story. He can create worth where only a will to power lives now,
Easily as corrupt as Graham, Joe "You lie!" Wilson faces a hopeful election fight in the House.
Adair Burrough's victory over venality will seat a worthy woman in Wilson's vacant seat. And "vacant" is the optimum word, as all the weasel Wilson has done during his tenure is to feather his own nest. Only his bank will lament his loss. Nor notice his absence.
Yours truly agrees with Hamlet, "'tis a consummation devoutly to be wished" that both vicious, self-serving pols be sent packing, for a brighter day for the Civil-war starting state.
I'm reading the Twitter feed of a psychiatrist who has been critical of Trump since 2016. She thinks that the Democrats should have thrown the book at him, charging him with every breach they reasonably could. By advancing only two counts, she believes they are normalizing his behavior to a great extent and not sending a message of containment that is commensurate with the egregious nature of his transgressions. It's interesting to read her because her focus is on the psychological chess that is playing out and of which Congress seems oblivious. The psychiatrist, Bandy Lee, is a professor at Yale and has 20 years of experience practicing in the prison system, studying mental pathologies and power dynamics.
Her belief is that after his likely Senate acquittal, Trump will feel more emboldened and will become worse than ever because he will feel that he has gotten away with his behavior. He will escalate. And that is scary. Having a good understanding of Trump's psychology is critical. Narcissists can be wily and evil. Trump is both. They don't think like rational people which makes them seemingly incomprehensible to laypersons. Congress needs to talk to psychologists and listen to what they are saying. The Goldwater Rule does not prohibit psychologists from acting in the interest of public health. Even if that was not true, with now thousands of hours of Trump on tape, psychologists understand him better than they do some of their own patients.
48
@LH the articles of impeachment have to pass the vote to matter. It really doesn’t matter if there are two articles or 32 articles. The committee is making a political choice to ensure the articles pass the vote. There are no degrees of impeachment. Impeached is impeached.
2
Thank you Mr. Blow for common sense, reality, voting matters, elections matter, no one should sit out the blue wave 2020 because their person isn't on the ballot. I don't know which of the Democrats will get the nod next year. But liberals should vote for moderates, moderates for liberals and so on. It's the only thing to do to save the country from another four years of Turmp, and the threat he is.
8
"I have to constantly remind people that impeachment in the House is the victory."
If you set the bar low enough, you can always declare victory.
10
If the Republicans had any sense, they would realize it would be better to run with Pence at the head of the ticket.
“ Impeachment in the House Is the Victory
Donald Trump and his supporters need to know that you can be punished for your actions.”
No it is not.
The victory is a progressive win in 2020 and rebuilding our institutions from scratch, brick by shiny new brick, untainted by the rot of oligarchy.
The punishment is the banishment of all that is undemocratic and extractive. The end of all that is oppressive and tyrannical. The cleansing of all that is supremacist and authoritarian and the restoration of truth.
Trump may never be jailed, but his treason and that of his party can be exposed.
27
@Rima Regas
I think what you hope is pure fantasy.
I am sorry, but even Donald Trump doesn't live in that big a fantasy,
1
Well said, Mr. Blow - well said indeed! Republicans' subservient behavior, including Lindsey Graham's, are a low point in the democratic experiment that is America. History will record them as opportunistic lackeys deprived of any honor, decency, and integrity.
Our democracy will survive these times, but not without the effort and vote of every decent and honest American.
My countrymen: you have a choice in the next election - vote!
19
How Trump hijacked a major American political party and its tens of millions of loyalists is not a mystery or unknown. The conservative, Republican supporting media including Rush Limbaugh, Fox News etc. etc. have for decades promoted racism. At the heart of conservatism is racism. The corporate owned major media have been and to a considerable degree are still complicit in the racism as promoted by conservatives. Trump is the logical and inevitable result.
37
@Eric
Trump didn’t hijack the Republican Party. He just gave it the opportunity to openly display its true colors.
9
@Dale Irwin
I completely agree!
Hardly a victory. The truth, more startling than any game won or triumph celebrated, is that the entire affair will fade even further into irrelevance by Marrch if not before. The pyrrhic victory which still seems the likeliest scenario for Democrats in 2020 will be Trump losing the popular vote by 5 million and holding the Upper Midwest to ensure four more years of all this.
4
The very least that we can do to Trump is to impeach him.
The GOP will shield him from all accountability at the present time, but at least history will have placed its black mark on his name for all succeeding generations to see.
Do the right thing no matter what.
And after listening to Collins and Jordan and Gaetz make up lies so fast that I could barely keep track of them, I know in my bones that the GOP is telling us that right and wrong do not matter.
It is a very sad time.
368
@SCZ you have nailed it. We know, and have known, the outcome in the Senate. The idea is to put to facts out there for every open mind to consider, and to put every republican in Congress on permanent, irrevocable record. History will not remember then kindly.
21
@SCZ Making up lies "so fast that I could barely keep track of them" was, of course, a deliberate tactic.
For those Republican defenders of Trump, the object is not to inform or persuade, but to overwhelm and confuse, until the listener throws up their hands and says, "None of this makes any sense; I don't know who or what to believe" and changes the channel.
18
@SCZ
"least history will have placed its black mark on his name for all succeeding generations to see." Also, there will be a black mark on the entire Republican delegation to Congress. The Republican Party will suffer being the "useful idiots" of the godawful Republican Administration of Trump.
5
In the near future, this whole impeachment event will be in our history, civics, and political science books. We before our eyes are witnessing a democracy in action, and still a dynamic one. Think how the protagonists in this real-life theater will be portrayed for generations, for our kids and grandkids. We will start with Speaker Pelosi, Schiff, and Nadler to cite just a few. They are the quintessential representatives of a democratic republic. They are following their oaths to put country first, to serve us. They have already won the war even if the battle was lost. Juxtapose them with the worst president in modern times if not ever. Then add to this recipe of infamy a tainted AG, Veep, and Secretary of State along with the weak, spineless, and amoral McConnell Inc. Let us be proud that good still remains within our nation's people, that they are relentless in their efforts to bring health and security and justice back to our 50 states.
378
@Kathy Lollock
I hope you are correct but impeachment was meant to be a check on executive power and it no longer is up to the task. I suspect that soon we will see Amazon's best seller list consist of different copies of Julius Caesar as well as 1984. I wonder if I will see the day when the biggest insult will be to be called an honourable man. Shakespeare sure knew his humans.
33
@Kathy Lollock
I hope we can sustain enough normalcy that we have widespread history education accurately portraying the malevolence of Trump and the Republicans in the future. Education is always a political battleground.
14
@Kathy Lollock And all of the points you make are digitally recorded providing ample material to remind voters throughout the election cycle of what has transpired since 2016. I hope the Democratic Party uses that trove of material effectively in 2020 to drive every Republican out of office and in every future election to keep them out of politics for all eternity.
17
Impeachment is victory?
The current betting odds (Predictit) are Trump 45.7% for a 2020 win. Biden is second at 12.1%.
Trump will be impeached on a party line vote. He will be acquitted on a party line vote. He will campaign on the acquittal and on the loss of union members private health insurance under Medicare for All.
He will win ~300 Electoral College votes. The Democrats, their losing candidate can go on a speaking tour with John Kerry on the future of their party.
9
In all probability, the Senate will acquit the president.
"Impeachment in the House is the victory". That is what may carry the message to the electorates.
6
To the extent that Trump is used to getting away with things, impeachment in the House will indeed be a victory - a victory for the Democrats to defend and assert congressional power and responsibility. Trump's corruption saga may not be over. After Ukraine, perhaps Russia and the Mueller report might be revisited; and then those hidden tax returns and what they may reveal.
18
@Point of View
What Trump's tax returns reveal is that after he went bankrupt and his credit dried up, he relied on Russia and Saudi Arabia for money, including loans, but also by money laundering through high end real estate.
47
"He has done everything in his power to weaken and destroy our institutions."
Actually our institutions were weakened and corrupted long ago, which allowed the rise of Trump. When enough of our leaders sold themselves out to the rich and powerful, and began to dismantle our democracy by declaring war on the threat they feared most, an educated and strong middle class, it signaled what was to come to pass in 2016. Dismantling unions, cutting jobs and wages, pitting us against one another, co-opting the airwaves and media, dumbing down our educational systems, so that the fear they sowed found fertile ground in our growing ignorance, and truth and lies began to sound the same. All of this was directed from behind the scenes by our own American oligarchy who have become even more powerful because our leaders who are supposed to b serving us, serve only them. Trump is just the inevitable result of a system that no longer works.
As long as ordinary Americans remain divided and fighting each other, the system will remain broken. We've had other moments like this, when someone stepped forward and led the fight against the rich and powerful entrenched interests, men like Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, JFK, and now we need someone like them to save our democracy. Who will that be? Or have we run out of saviors?
One thing is for certain: it isn't Trump.
76
Elizabeth Warren is leading that fight, followed closely behind by other Democratic contenders. More coverage should be given to their individual ideas and plans to retake America for the People, rather than silly coverage intended to raise doubts about their honest convictions.
2
This article makes an essential point. Comments to the effect that Senate acquittal is a totally foregone conclusion I hope are too cynical. While a lifelong Democrat, I truly wished DJT the best when he was elected, being a literary sort, I hoped it would be Prince Hal becoming King Henry. Alas! Now, I send the same hope to the Senate, that they will rise to the occasion and the spirit of what has been the best in our government will rise to the top. DJT is a clear and obvious danger to our national security. But if all gets is impeachment, that is way better than inaction.
17
We will not emerge from this process with a conviction, nor are four Senate Republicans likely to break party discipline and give us a moral victory. Neither does the foregone conclusion of the House vote qualify as a victory. We are in the midst of an existential Constitutional crisis. Something tangible and measurable needs to change. If just 5% of US voters are moved—if Trump's ceiling of support definitively lowers from 40 to 35%—I would call that a tangible victory.
How? Someone perceived as neutral needs to show swing and independent voters the light. No matter how well-reasoned Schiff and Pelosi appear on TV and on paper, they are still perceived as part of the "other team." There is a third branch that is supposed to be the ultimate guardian of the Constitution. I'm sure all nine Supreme Court Justices see the same crisis I do. I hope the political hacks among them keep that context in mind when they rule on issues of congressional and judicial oversight and investigation of the Chief Executive. I hope that Chief Justice Roberts will preside over the impeachment trial with the heavy hand that a presiding judge should exercise, especially when the defense will try to derail the proceedings into a circus of "whataboutisms" and "alternative facts." If he tries, Roberts could swing public opinion by explaining why Trump officials must testify and demand their participation. Far fetched? Yes, but I need more than a predictable House vote to call a win.
15
If there was only one thing to be made clear, it's that No One is Above the Law. And to that extent the House Impeachment hearings and subsequent action fulfilled its purpose, whether Donald Trump and congressional Republicans like it or not.
And even though the Articles are going to be doomed on the Senate floor, at least this president now knows that he is not King, and we are still a Democracy.
We shall not be cowed or beaten down by Trump's intimidation.
We, the People shall have the word.
And the word is in the U.S. Constitution.
Impeachment in the House is a victory.
19
I think I agree with Mr. Blow's point.
Nobody remembers who Pres. Andrew Johnson was, but they remember that he was impeached.
Nobody remembers or could even believe, if told, that Pres. Nixon instituted economy-wide wage and price controls, but everyone "remembers" that he was impeached.
With luck, there will be nothing particular to remember Pres. Trump for, but everyone will remember that he was impeached. That will be his tombstone: "President Trump – Impeached."
168
@Joe Ryan
Nixon also signed the law creating the EPA.
5
@Martin Yes he did, and under duress. I remember it well in around '68 or '68, the EPA defined efficient engines based on pollutants per gallon burned. This meant your import that got 40 mpg. wouldn't pass the requirement, while a Ford LTD that 8 miles per gallon, appeared to burn gas more efficiently. Maybe Nixon wasn't a crook per se, but he presided over a party of cheats. Things haven't changed as much as you may think.
10
@YogiOnefromObie
"The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is an independent agency of the United States federal government for environmental protection.[3] President Richard Nixon proposed the establishment of EPA on July 9, 1970[4] and it began operation on December 2, 1970, after Nixon signed an executive order. The order establishing the EPA was ratified by committee hearings in the House and Senate. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_Protection_Agency
I hated Nixon (sorry, Nancy) but even Nixon had more of a moral compass than Trump.
11
Listening to the House debating the Articles of the Impeachment of Donald Trump, what struck me – aside from the complete divisiveness on view and the predominant stridency of the Republicans when compared to the measured and fact-based rhetoric of the Democrats - is that the Republicans seem to be imputing to the Democrats a fervent desire to impeach ever since Trump came to office. Impeachment is not happening because he is unpopular, but because he has committed acts that violate the Constitution of the US. The Republicans are casting their leader as a maltreated naïf. Why is it so difficult for them to admit that this President ran for office to enrich himself and his family? He does not care about the American citizenry other than encouraging and basking in the adulation of his acolytes. It is puzzling in the extreme that the party affords him safe haven. So they do not ‘want to incur his wrath’ – why? Purely to retain the White House? Is this is what they want as their legacy? And, trust me, they will be judged. I cannot for the life of me think of any other current democratically elected government where the absurdities that mark your President’s almost daily words and actions would be tolerated by the populace; the Democrats, who are fighting for the truth and for the survival of your Republic had no choice but to proceed. If not, you would soon be living in a dictatorship.
162
@Jazzie Calls for Trump's impeachment go back to his inauguration--or before--because he refused to respect the emoluments clause--a crime.
2
@Jazzie For Republicans it's all about being re-elected in states and districts where Trump won. Even swing state Democrats are considering a no vote on impeachment. To me that's moral corruption to care more about self than country.
3
This is the sad irrational end to all those who called for impeachment. We could have voted to censor him and have made this same point without turning the whole matter over to Mitch in the senate. Having started the thing we could have waited for the courts and actually had A level witnesses and also stopped the GOP from putting on a show trial as long as they want (Benghazi anyone?) and we could have impeached him on 8 counts. Instead we have given Mitch the ability to put Joe Biden on trail for as long as he wants with no representation or response. It was said "we might get four GOP senators for a majority" ...no one believes this now...in fact we are likely to lose two Democrats. And when they are finished destroying Biden and we lose 46 states behind "Crazy" Bernie I wonder if this moment will still be so sweet.
7
@Greg Jones
Definitely the potential for a Phyrric Victory.
Maybe the best we can hope for is MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction), with new parties rising from
the ashes.
1
It is unlikely but not impossible that the Senate would remove Trump. It is not like they are going to drop hints before the final vote that they might remove him only to be left out in the cold if they fail. Recall the "Never Trump" movement in the Republican primary - if you blinked, you missed it.
Economists would call anything that Republicans do or say before the Senate trial "cheap talk". It is non-binding statements and actions, but if they can act loyal to the Godpigeon and scare the Democrats out of impeachment, they will have won with no political cost for clearing Trump in a Senate trial despite his guilt. Even as rampant as spinelessness seems to be in our society, they are wrong to think this has a chance of working with Speaker Pelosi clearly committed. The Republicans are, however, right to think there is very little cost for trying anyway.
The author is correct that a censure or inaction is blatant cowardice and impeachment is necessary, but this does not make it "the" victory. It is superior to not impeaching and it may be the best they can do. There is, however, no participation trophy in Congress.
One or more major league baseball managers (I forget which one) was known for saying "lose with your best". In other words, pursue any uphill battle in earnest with your best people and your best effort. Doing otherwise is just defeating yourself. This rule applies to any counter-insurgency effort, whether in Afghanistan or America.
6
No, non-removal by the Senate is a failure of the Constitution. Perhaps the Framers weren't as prescient as we imagine, or didn't understand human nature under mass media in the 21st Century.
We have to start having a serious conversation about replacing or overhauling the Constitution.
23
@Hmakav
The assertion seems to be that we need to rewrite the Constitution because Congress has become a gaggle of complicit cowards that has mostly replaced independent and careful thought with either loyalty to a criminal cult or dubious polling numbers from a misinformed populace.
If this assertion is true, who can do the rewriting and ratification?
@Hmakav
Look up Dr. Sanford Levinson: Our Undemocratic Constitution.
Impeachment without practical consequences is the same as vindication.
Senate Republicans will have effectively declared the President cannot be held accountable for his actions.
27
@Christopher Johnston
Neither Clinton nor Andrew Johnson were vindicated.
Clinton lied under oath about having an affair with Monica Lewinsky, but it wasn't sufficient grounds to remove him from office.
Impeachment in the House was never going to be a victory. The victory for Dems to aim for is a big win in the 2020 election.
Impeachment was merely the first move.
Everything the Dems do from then until November 3, 2020 should focus on electing a Democratic President, holding the House and flipping the Senate and several state legislatures.
This needs to be the big win that sidelines Trump and Trumpists for at least four years. Giving the House or the Senate right back in 2022 is unacceptable.
This means a few key moves should follow:
1. The House must continue to investigate Trump and his gang throughout next year.
Subpoena Pence, Pompeo, and the rest to find out all the ways Trump's corruption and disregard for the law have worked through he ranks to all the bad ends we know about now and new ones we discover.
2. Continue fighting in the courts for Congressional checks and balances. Pushing the Supreme Court to do the right thing or slump to Trump's level is a winning proposition.
3. Put together the best ticket to bring all the elements of the Democratic coalition together again under the big tent that elected Obama twice.
That means the top vote-getter in the Democratic primaries is the nominee, and if that is Biden or Bernie, they should pledge to only serve one term.
The nominee should also announce some cabinet choices prior to the election to show the country a team of politically strong folks to attract even more support.
10
@Dennis
If Bernie or Biden pledge to serve only one term, that makes them a lame duck on Day One, hardly a good idea.
The Democrats, through short-sightedness or desperation, went forward without a clear case for impeachment. The evidence is a far cry from finding burglars in Democratic campaign headquarters or lying under oath. What they have are a few statements by Trump and a lot of innuendo, and that's about it. If there were a clear case, the Republicans would join in the impeachment effort, as they did with Nixon.
I suppose, in some small way, impeachment in the House might be a victory for this paper, but not for the American people.
7
@NorthernVirginia:
Gasp! The case against Trump couldn't be more clear; cf. his three years in office: Every day, in every way, he is outrageous.
Republicans know this, but they are too cowardly to stand up to him and probably be voted out of office.
To do nothing is unacceptable.
If this is the case, we should have pushed to censure him. Obviously the Senate will vindicate him in their chamber, and his followers will say what was the point, and we can say well now at least you've seen the facts, but they will twist them anyhow, Readers below who naively believe this flint-hard Republican Senate will in any way budge from the Senate leader's position are dreaming. It was up to the House to impeach but it is constitutionally up to the Senate to bring him to trial and acquit or not. No way will they acquit. Don't worry about Pence. He'll never take office this way.
1
Impeachment may be the victory, but I am still holding out hope that 4 Republican Senators — maybe Collins, Murkowski, Romney and Paul — will at least hear rumblings of the conscience and vote to remove. It would be a moral victory if 51 senators voted to remove. And it might shut Trump up about ‘exoneration.’ Yes, I know that both those wishes are beyond Santa’s power, but I’ve already sent my letter to the North Pole. I’ll also send a letter to Congressman Tom Cole to ask him to impeach, and then in the new year letters to Senators Lankford and Inhofe to remove, but those will predictably go into the waste basket when they reach the Congress.
6
@Ockham9
You can count Ms. Murkowski out. She's all about more oil development in Alaska and will back The Donald for that reason. And your letter to the North Pole will be answered by some nice volunteer at the North Pole post office, which is actually 15 miles south of Fairbanks . . . and where the Christmas in Ice Festival was cancelled. Weather is too warm.
3
@Ockham9 You're joking about Rand Paul right? I think he came home one night and found a giant green pod in his closet just like Lindsay Graham must have.....and well you know the rest of the story. Actually, come to think of it, finding giant green pods in their closets could explain the attitude of the entire republican caucus. The original version of the Invasion of the Body Snatchers actually starred actor Kevin McCarthy - the same name as the GOP house minority leader. Coincidence you say? I don't believe in coincidences!
"Then there is the other migraine-inducing dilemma: Do you really want a President Mike Pence?"
Maybe it's time to think about the unthinkable. It's not a question of wanting Mike Pence in any absolute sense, so much as concluding that Pence would be preferable to Trump -- that Pence would be a small step back toward sanity.
One thing we know for sure at this point is that Trump's base is not going to wake up some morning and suddenly see the light, recognizing that Trump's opponents have been right all along and Trump must go. Direct frontal assault on Trumpism in the name of Truth and Justice didn't work yesterday, and it won't work tomorrow.
So we can either choose to declare symbolic victory, as Blow proposes, or try something else.
The hyperbolic dismissal of impeachment, as a "coup" or a reversal of the 2016 election, by Trump's GOP defenders is premised on Pence being a non-factor. But why couldn't that be changed? The loyal core of Trump's base is, after all, staunchly Christian and understands that Trump is merely feigning religiosity. Pence, on the other hand, is the real deal -- a lifelong serious practicing Christian. Many conservative Christians might actually prefer Pence, if that actually seemed a viable choice.
Predictably, Pence is lying low. The Christian left is a minority cohort, but not non-existent. Perhaps they should start talking up Pence on Sundays and see where it goes. What is there to lose?
And a boomlet for Pence would drive Trump crazy.
4
@woofer The Christian right has sold out. Trump is their new false idol. May they wander 40 years in the (political) wilderness like their old testament predecessors.
'No good deed goes unpunished' is one thought that springs to mind, when reading this essay of Charles Blow, and a symbol of victory is that he will never turn into a trumpeting rhino.
Revisiting the Spirit of The Past, as in Dickens' Christmas Carol, it has always been a bit of a mystery when Trump, a somewhat faded businessman, popped up like a Don-in-the-box, questioning The President's birth certificate. How very singular, and after leading some Americans on a wild goose-chase, baffling that he was not caught by the coat-tails and asked for an explanation.
Half the Country is probably not watching The Impeachment Hearings taking place, and for some of our journalists it is plausible that it is grinding work.
We could end up with a Pence presidency, a politician navigating at present under a cloak of invisibility, unpopular as he appears to the average voter, but joining Mr. Blow in wishing to stand tall in the face of adversity; tall in sensing that America has restored truth in its Constitution.
3
Brava. And Happy Holidays to you and yours.
1
@Phyliss Dalmatian,
Thank you and ditto! A peaceful and enjoyable Holiday to you and your loved ones.
The hearings gave me some glimmers of hope for the country. My other hope is that we will some day be able to attract people like Ambassador Yovanovitch and Fiona Hill to serve their country.
On display, I saw smart and dumb, good and evil, rational and irrational.
Maybe the country hasn't yet hit bottom, but my pessimism has lessened for the first time in a long while.
86
Yes, impeachment by the House would be a win for setting limits on a president. Other than Mitt Romney it is hard to think of any Republican senator who would vote for conviction. One question that nobody can seem to answer is why so many Americans want to give up liberal democracy for authoritarian government which Trump offers. Why did so many Americans go to war to protect our freedoms against authoritarian governments when authoritarian rule seems so popular now in the US? Why do so many Americans no longer care if their government follows the law? It appears that millions of Americans believe that liberalism is destroying their country and theonly remedy is authoritarian rule. Conversely, people on the left believe Trump and his white nationalist supporters are bent on destroying the country. These seem to be two completely views of what the US is all about and each side sees the other as an existential threat. How can the country be governed if this is the situation?
114
@Bob
You ask good questions, but I think the really sad answer is that the people of the United States have never, as an aggregate, been that interested in liberalism or democracy. If they were, we wouldn't have had slavery, wouldn't have had to wait a century and a half for women's suffrage, etc.
Certain pockets have, for sure, at various times, been interested in advancing and expanding human rights, but most people want to be told who and what to believe in, who to like and who to hate; it's simply psychologically easier and more certain. Add to that the imperatives of tribalism and economic competition, and it's not surprising so many have authoritarian sympathies.
13
@Glenn Ribotsky I've been asking myself the same questions ever since Trump descended that escalator and delivered his horrifying remarks that initiated his campaign of hate. The answer to my question of "why" becomes clearer to me everyday. I have always recognized that there is a strong layer of racism, anti-immigrant fear, homophobia, misogyny, anti-semitism, white nationalism and just about every other form of hatred and fear of the "other" just below the surface of our so called liberal democracy. Trump has gone far beyond a mere scratching of that surface. His approach has been to rip it open and to allow for the full expression of all of those abhorrent ideas and the normalization of that expression. Further I contend that the Republicans in both houses of congress who are so willing to subvert their constitutional oath of office in favor of providing unrelenting support for Trump basically share those hate filled
positions. When they see the response from Trump's minions at his rallies, it provides incentive and cover to jump on that bandwagon and refuse to get off no matter that they all eventually stand to end up in the ditch of history. My big hope is that the rest of us and our democracy will not get pulled into that ditch as well.
3
@Bob
One answer is that times have been good these last three years, no matter who should get the credit. This do nothing, bumbling government is doing less harm than that nice guy George Bush did. Instead of incompetent sycophants (Ghouhliani, Mulvaney) he hired the most ruthless capitalist plutocrats (Cheney, Rumsfeld). He might be a nice guy whose friends with Michelle Obama, but he made an incredible mess. Trump hasn't crashed the plane yet!
2
Mr. Blow, I usually agree with your columns 100%, but here I think you are dead wrong. Impeachment means nothing if there are no consequences for Trump and he does not get removed. He will continue enriching himself at our expense, continue filling the judiciary with right-wing ideologues, continue destroying the environment and inflicting cruelties on the weak.
Even if the Senate removes Trump from office and he actually leaves, we get Pence. Pence will continue down the same path with regard to the judiciary and the environment. He will do his best to turn this country into a Christian theocracy.
You may be willing to settle for a vote of impeachment from the House and call it victory. I want a heckuva lot more:
Reversal of the climate destroying trajectory we're on
Single payer health care
Real justice for all those powerless whose lives are being destroyed by the so-called "justice" system
Economic equity restored instead of having 3 individuals own as much as half of the rest of us
A good educational system, with free tuition at the community colleges
And that's just for starters.
18
Impeachment means he can't be pardoned. For that reason alone the articles of impeachment should have been far more comprehensive.
A lot more information is going to come to light when he is finally out of office and it is all too easy to imagine his successor waving it all away for the sake of "national unity", as usually happens with former presidents who commit crimes.
40
@Anthony Flack
This is interesting. Please help many of us understand in more detail what an impeached president cannot be pardoned for. Do the articles need to be particularly specific? Who decides about the legitimacy of a pardon? Should (of course justifiable) articles of impeachment be drawn in certain language and reasoning which may prevent a future pardon? How?
@A Griffith - I don't know why you're asking me. I'm not a lawyer and you're not drafting the articles of impeachment. I don't know the language and reasoning would be best, or how specific they need to be. The question is academic if the charges aren't included at all.
I assume that the Supreme Court would ultimately decide about the legitimacy of the pardon.
I agree. Impeachment by the House will be a victory. We are playing into the Republicans' hands if we treat it as less consequential than it is. They are ready to amp up the denial machine. It is our job to ignore the vitriol and point attention to the truth.
104
"Impeachment in the House is the victory."
Maybe, but when impeachment or not impeachment and conviction or not conviction are determined by and dependent upon party and partisan affiliation, what you basically have is one more example of party politics.
Democrats control the House=Impeachment
Republicans the Senate = Acquittal
This has nothing to do with justice.
Mr. Blow and some of his colleagues may be sincere in their beliefs and quests, but in Congress, these beliefs are transformed by Alice in Wonderland power ideologies.
13
Charles, this whole argument misses a more important and consequential matter. The Democrats have watered down the charges to a vague "abuse of power" which is not a crime, and "obstruction of congress" which means basically nothing. The country is less and less convinced of the impeachment case. The trial in the Senate is bound to get ugly - and Republicans get to sell their story even more loudly by hauling up all kinds of favorable witnesses. In the meantime, more than half the country thinks this is nothing more than a vendetta by Democrats. Trump won't be convicted - we all know that.
But here is the real danger - Democrats may very likely lose it all. The House, the Senate and the Presidency. There will be no stopping Trump then. Imagine at least two more Supreme Court Judges. This may well be the most monumental mistake made by Pelosi and her Party - the effects of which could last decades.
28
@Marc Sivam If voters turn against Democrats over their setting limits on what a president can do, then it means a majority of Americans want an elected dictator, not a nation of laws under a constitution with three co-equal branches. We may as well know sooner rather than later that our democracy is lost.
57
Pelosi and the Democrats had no choice. How long do you let someone slap you in the face before you put a stop to it? History will show that impeachment is the right course of action. It’s an attempt to save our democracy, the separation of powers. I believe it will make our country stronger in the long run. Thanks to Nancy Pelosi.
96
@Marc Sivam I think that if there were any favorable witnesses they would have appeared before the House. Do you really think that Trump forbade them from appearing as a matter of principle? He who has no principles? I believe that Obstruction of Congress was one of the impeachment articles against Nixon because it was a clear violation of the constitution. If many people think like you that violating the constitution is "basically nothing" then your democracy is indeed in peril.
27