Also....adding to my previous comment..
I do hope the authorities close Yellowstone and the Big Island of Hawaii so this will never happen in the USA.!
9
Why are people allowed to ride motorcycles, or to climb El Capitan, sometimes without ropes? Because it's not the job of government to prevent every fool thing.
16
Being handed a gas mask when visiting should indicate the risk you are taking when visiting this island.
13
People have a right to risk their lives if they want to and they aren't endangering somebody else. However when well-respected businesses associate themselves with these activities right or wrong people tend to believe that it is somehow safe and reading the fine print is totally unnecessary. Because why would they risk their customers lives? This came down to a cynical calculation between risk and profit.
14
There are always risks in certain activities. people choose to take them. who cares? Fire can cause burns, driving can be dangerous, planes can crash land. No one forces anyone into precarious situations unless they are guardians of a child, etc., who choose to put a kid through such things.
We take risks every single day. I stayed next to a semi-active volcano in Ecuador once. Next day, everything was covered in volcanic ash. I didn't even pay attention to the rumblings cos being from NYC, I think I dismissed it like I had done to subway noises forever. I was traveling alone and responsible solely for myself and knew the risks of this solo trip, especially once I decided to head into the Amazon.
Personal accountability, the end.
8
I believe this should be regulated by the government with scientists on hand to monitor the volcano for any possible eruptions or if they can’t guarantee safety then tour companies should not be allowed to operate there ; period .
These people with third degree burns will be scarred for a lifetime . That’s not worth any risk in my book .
7
The deaths of these tourists is tragic but equally tragic to the families is the death toll of tourists on New Zealand roads. These happen week after week and the toll far exceeds those of adventure related incidents.
NZ drives on the left and those who are used to driving on the right are overly represented in highway crashes. The instinctive tendency to pull over to the right can result in a head on crash.
By giving a license only to those accustomed to driving on the left authorities could make New Zealand far safer than by clamping down on adventure activities.
Just how much freedom are you prepared to give up to be safe?
7
Why do people fall off mountains?
3
Give warnings, allow adventures.
12
Some ask why they were allowed to visit an active volcano..
You can be shot in New Jersey,Teargassed in Hong Kong and stabbed in London!!!
Clean your own backyards up first before you pick on us Kiwi's.
18
Why were people allowed on it? Why not? Why do people go bungee jumping, sky diving, free diving (into the sea), swimming with sharks, whitewater rafting, or free climbing Half Dome? Because it is there.
No one goes to visit a volcano without being aware of the risks. Countless Americans, myself included, and other visitors have walked on very recently dried lava flows on Kilauea, stared into the abyss of an active lava tube and stood within arm's length of mesmerizing pahoehoe flows. Although the risks at Kilauea are different - collapsing ground under your feet vs. explosive eruptions - there are risks. It is a calculated risk, but unfortunately sometimes people win the "lottery" of bad luck. It comes with the territory.
Besides, keeping things in perspective, there were dozens more people killed by the Las Vegas shooter (and many of our other mass shooters) than by this volcano - and yet, unlike New Zealand's, our government won't do anything to address that risk. To me the risks of getting randomly shot when shopping at Walmart or seeing a movie, going to work or class, attending a concert, etc. are far scarier because it is not the calculated risk of a voluntary activity that one can avoid.
29
"Why would tour operators and cruise lines tout an adventure ride, with prices starting at $260 per child, at such risk?"
Ummm, for the money? To feed their families? Stuff like that? The question should be who decided regulators were not necessary to protect the tourists?
10
Why? Money. Private ownership. Public risk. Next question.
8
Common sense has disappeared and everyone thinks the world is just a big disney adventure.
20
Or perhaps people want something more real than a Disney "adventure"?
2
It is not surprising after this tragedy that people are questioning the wisdom of allowing tourists to go to the island despite what was known of its dangers. Ignoring, for the moment, the philosophical implications of preventing people from going, I am reminded of another New Zealand volcanic eruption, in 1995.
Mt Ruapehu is the highest mountain in the North Island (2,797 metres). There three skifields, two of them reasonably large commercial skifields and one a small club field.
Just after the skifields had closed for the day (it was late September 1995 but I do not recall the precise date) there was a lahar (volcanic mud flow). This forked around a T-bar and had the skifield been open, it is probable that there would have been fatalities.
Unlike White Island, Ruapehu had given many warning signs of the impending eruption. The authorities had warned people to stay away and not venture into the upper mountain/crater lake area. Despite these warnings, and the obvious signs of increased volcanism, such as a sulphur smell in the air, discoloured creater lake (yellow-grey rather than the usual green) and the reports of increasing temperature and acidity, there was constant stream of people climbing up from the top lift on the skifield to see it.
Ultimately people cannot simply blame governments or tour operators for everything that goes wrong. White Island was a tragedy, but the pre-tour safety briefings, hard hats and gas masks were clear indications of the risks.
14
@Philip Ross Hard hats and gas masks for White Island weren't about meaningful safety, they were about creating a false sense of security. Neither of those items would, or did in fact, offer any defense to the super heated steam that the volcano spewed during the sudden, violent eruption.
15
@John L
And your gun laws offer us NO protection when we visit the US!!
19
Lol. Volcanic eruptions that cannot be predicted. Many volcanologist have died studying them. people should be allowed to do risky things if they so desire. I don't want to live in a nanny state.
9
Interesting question. Why are tourists allowed anything dangerous? Because it’s there. If you pay you can climb Mount Everest or the Matterhorn among any other destinations despite the danger. People sometimes go seek out danger. Not the responsibility of New Zealand. We need to address all of the thrill seeking anywhere. Caves, oceans, volcanoes. People can take responsibility for their own actions.
7
Why Were Tourists Allowed to Visit an Active New Zealand Volcano?
Quite simply, because it is there.
Some of us choose to live our lives without cotton wool and many thousands of us have enjoyed our visits to White Island.
Remember that the Yosemite National Park is basically one enormous super volcano, visited by millions.
13
@Prometheus I believe you are referring to Yellowstone National Park
14
@Judith
Thank you !
Yes I meant Yellowstone.
It was an amazing place to visit.
3
Many of these comments reflect a disturbing sense of entitlement vis-a-vis the natural world. It is time we learned how to fit into such existing situations as floods, forest fires, relentless sun, landslides, tsunami, ice storms, land subsidence, sheer cliffs, windy escarpments, hurricanes, earthquakes and yes, even volcanoes. Humans have thin fragile skins and monstrous egos--the two do not go well together. It is time to use that rarity called "common sense".
16
What a painful death for some and others have horrible burns. I would have thought that there would be restrictions if an eruption seemed imminent. I toured Mt. Etna in Sicily a few years ago. According to the guide " she does something every day." ....either ashes or steam or boulders, some the size of cars, bouncing out. I found this unsettling and was told : " We do not worry about her ! Our scientists have her under total control !"
The parking lot and visitor center were new because there had been 18 feet of fresh lava flow just a few years before.
I was very glad to have had the wonderful experience of seeing and walking in such a place but certainly knew it was dangerous to be there. I would hope that it would be closed to visitors if it showed signs of being more active though. I'm waiting for a better report about whether the New Zealand volcano should have been closed to visitors.
1
If you SCUBA dive or ski or pilot a plane or drive a car you train and you know and accept the risk.
The problem with White Island type experiences is that although the risk may be mentioned in the small print it is sold as a theme park, a sort of Disney World which seems scary but is really safe.
8
Even within the context of adventure tourism, risk assessment and mitigation is a governance issue. Tourists embark on an adventure trip based on the belief or assumption that the risks have been determined to be at an acceptable level. Were they?
Questions to ask would be:
What exactly were the risks assessed?
How each “likelihood” was scored and mitigated to an acceptable level?
What were determined as “acceptable” risks to a person on site? and on what basis in terms of the mitigation measures?
Who is ultimately responsible for the health and safety of tourists?
Right now, the answers muted or non existent.
It is heartbreaking for families and lessons must be learned by those who have governance and risk management responsibilities any where on this planet, not just NZ.
5
I can’t imagine the agony experienced by the burn victims having to suffer through a 90 minute boat ride before receiving more than rudimentary medical care. I just hope there was morphine on-board.
8
"Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice." — attributed to Will Durant, historian.
22
I appreciate the overwhelming majority of pieces in the NY Times. However, the premise is really irritating in this case. I live near the coast; people put their beach towels at the base of sandstone cliffs and sometimes they die as a result of collapse. Hey - if you sail a boat into the Pacific, a large wave might swamp your craft. If those types of risks concern you, don't engage in those pursuits. Should I presume the authors are full-time city-dwellers who never venture beyond the structured confines of NYC?
13
online promotion for the tour promised “a scenic boat ride along the picturesque Bay of Plenty to White Island for an unforgettable guided tour of New Zealand’s most active volcano.
It will certainly be Unforgettable.
My heart goes out to families of the passengers.
6
I hiked to the top of Stromboli in the Med. It was active at the time but didn't blow for another 30 years.
2
Having lived in NZ for a decade now, I can see three reasons why these sort of accidents happen here:
1. NZ economy is very primitive, heavily relying on tourism and agriculture. No matter whether visiting a given place puts tourists in danger, if the 'wow factor' is there, health and safety are secondary to income.
2. NZ law protects businesses and government from large-sum lawsuits. If you get fired for a wrong reason, you may win (if you are lucky) a few thousand dollars. Someone defaming you publicly will be fined typically a few hundred, maybe a thousand dollars. Wrongful death - you cannot expect hundreds of thousands of dollars awarded by courts to the families of the victims here.
3. Race relations. Tourist industry is largely dominated by the tribes. The government has been unable to enforce regulations with those companies effectively out of fear of getting into racially charged political battles. Tribal businesses here are extremely vocal about being against any interference from authorities, saying that they as the rightful owners of the land do not need to be told how to do things.
Overall, it will never be sorted out. The government and business owners will cry, hold vigils, pray and extend condolences. All while hoping that the accident will be quickly forgotten when yet another movie or tv show featuring beautiful NZ scenery is released.
12
@Paul
We really do not want our country filled up with thin skinned, litigious, blame seeking kill joys who coddle everything in bubble wrap and cotton wool.
Amongst other things, the acronym FIFO stands for "first in first out" and is a concept in computer science.
6
Who cares why? People knew it was active. That’s all that matters. People need to take risks. Stop pandering to the lawyers and accountants who are ruining everything.
7
ug. another exmple of humanity spilling over into all environments all landscapes, and nature just has to put up with it, or die, and what nature is doing is mostly just dieing..So for once nature struck back at the cosseted humans..The points are way on the humans side, in this game, and nature is losing everything, overall.. I see a human baby and I think how many thousands of chickens, pigs, cows, goats, forested land, birds, wildlife, will be sacrificed just for this single naked human baby to survive. It is amazing how we have managed to stack the deck. It is hard to feel anything for tourist humans who, so singularly, in our entire earth dominating population, were subjected to natures wiles..
1
@grace thorsen
Sorry while I share your concern for the environment, visiting an active volcano is not on the same level as eradicating wild places, killing wildlife, industrial level fishing, factory farming, destroying our environment or burning virgin forests. You don't control the circumstances when visiting the volcano, the volcano does.
3
Because not every dangerous thing in this world has yet been outlawed, fenced off, or closed to the public. It's a matter of time though, I'm sure.
7
The first casualty in this age of screen gods has consistently been common sense.
8
This reminds me of the movie "Jaws" where the mayor doesn't want to scare tourists from the water because of the possibility of shark attack.
3
People going to the edge of active volcanoes do not respect their huge power.
2
Question: "Why Were Tourists Allowed to Visit an Active New Zealand Volcano?"
Answer: "...with prices starting at $260 per child..."
7
If people want to risk their lives, they should not try and hold anyone else responsible for the outcomes. Grow up and stop trying to make others pay for your decisions.
9
Isn't Old Faithful part of a Yellowstone supervolcano? Think of all the tourists traipsing around it in comparison to White Island.
No one said humans are particularly smart or careful.
8
For Michael-in-Vegas and those posting here who state it is their right to endanger their lives, and no one can stop them.....or those who sneer at others they accuse of "looking for deep pockets to sue"......be sure you write up, get Notarized, and carry with you a statement to that effect and a promise NOT to ever sue, no matter what, and to refrain from making use of tax payer funded medical centers and doctors/nurses who may help you recover, or die in less pain...
10
FOr all those wiailing that the tourists "couldn't have known" the risks.....oh stuff and nonsense
Phone
Google White Island
Read this
"The island has been in a nearly continuous stage of releasing volcanic gas at least since it was sighted by James Cook in 1769. Whakaari (White Island) erupted continually from December 1975 until September 2000, marking the world's longest historic eruption episode,... & also in 2012, & 2016 .... In March 2000, three small vents appeared in the main crater & began belching ash which covered the island. An eruption on 27 July 2000 blanketed the island with mud & scoria & a new crater appeared. Major eruptions in 1981–83 altered much of the island's landscape & destroyed the extensive forest. The large crater created at that time now contains a lake, whose level varies substantially. Between July & August 2012 the island showed signs of increased activity with lake & gas levels rising from inside the crater. On 5 August 2012 a minor eruption occurred, sending ash into the air. More eruptions have followed since. Ongoing volcanic activity & tremors on 25 January 2013 suggested another eruption was imminent. A small eruption occurred on 20 August 2013 at 10.23 am, lasting for ten minutes producing mostly steam"
SO yeah they easily - with little effort - knew or should have known
BTW Geonet (Government) did NOT say it was safe - it merely gave a risk rating of an explosion. And volcanology is not great at predicting when it will blow
8
Hawaii is a good example of tourists visiting volcanos
Why are tourists allowed to visit and active volcano in Hawaii?
I wonder if the same exact comments will be made when the Yellowstone caldera blows.
2
If humans are still around on this planet, you can bet on it!
3
Because profit.
While it may not have been so bad to run tours for years to this place which had a constant amount of activity without eruptions, I find it kind of unbelievable that the tours didn’t get suspended during the previous weeks when an increase in activity was observed.
Sadly this looks to me like a case where the tour operators didn’t want to lose their revenue streams despite the obvious increase in risk.
I hope the business executives who made the decisions to continue running these tours while the activity was increasing are held criminally responsible.
This reminds me a bit of Arenal volcano in Costa Rica, where the volcano had been constantly erupting on a small scale for decades prior to 2010. There was a tour operator there who was famous for being able to time the eruptions and run tourists up to the rim between them.
He of course was eventually killed doing this, because if you do something that dangerous for long enough the odds will eventually catch up with you.
4
We were there last January, in and out in a couple of hours via helicopter. Precisely because it is so routine, so popular, and, yes, so unusual with a touch of the prehistoric, we eagerly looked forward to going—and enjoyed it. The only suggestion of danger was when our guide handed out gas masks in the event the sulphur fumes became too strong. Would we go now, knowing what we now know? Of course not, but hindsight is always 20-20. Assuming the volcano calms down, I imagine tours will start up again after some time elapses. Should add that a vacation to New Zealand means getting up close to a more raw nature: exploring caves, climbing glaciers, challenging hikes, kayaks, jet boats, etc. All of which can be dangerous to one degree or another. So it did not seem outrageous to visit White Island any more than visiting other hot water springs.
10
It sounds like White Island was promoted as an active volcano. Doesn’t this imply risk? I for one would not go anywhere near an active volcano, but I totally understand the appeal.
I go into the ocean knowing I could drown or get eaten by a shark, and people do drown and get eaten by sharks, but does that mean we should make oceans off-limits to humans?
15
An active volcano is safe as long as it is not erupting. You step onto an active volcano you are assuming a risk. If you don't understand that you have no business being on it or near it. Anyone who is pushing tourism into a potentially deadly deadly place needs to inform their clients of the risk involved. I wonder if these unfortunate people signed a liability waiver?
13
Heartbreaking to read about the loss of life and injuries from this eruption.
We can’t predict earthquakes or volcanic eruptions. But there are clear warning signs. Given that increased seismic activity was detected at White Island in the last several weeks (a clear sign of increased risk) I would never have set foot on the island. Hopefully this information was communicated to the tourists who were also heavily marketed with the highlights of the experience.
I don’t see this as an either/or situation. Both the tour operators and tourists should bear responsibility for communicating risk and then taking the risk.
5
“Why would tour operators and cruise lines tout an adventure ride, with prices starting at $260 per child, at such risk?”
A perfect example of the answer being in the question itself.
587
Insurance companies and lawyers are going to have a field day over this!!! I think the main question i would ask is: were tourists made CLEARLY and sufficiently aware of the risks involved in visiting an active volcano? If the answer is yes, then fine: people should be permitted in a "free" society, to take risks, even fairly large ones... but it is up to the people offering the kind of risks which you pay for, to make certain the people taking those risks know what they are getting themselves in for. If the answer is no, then the tour operators are liable for any harm that occurs, and should be dealt with accordingly. Granted, i would very much like to have visited the island myself even knowing what could happen - i'm a geologist by education, so i know full well the workings of an active volcano, yet the probability of getting caught in an eruption is very small, so i'd have no hesitation. The matter of children, however, is trickier: should parents or guardians be permitted to put their children in situations where bad things can happen? Driving in an automobile is an excellent example: this is the most dangerous thing most people do on a daily or even monthly basis, yet few think anything at all of putting their children's lives and health in jeopardy at the drop of a hat.... and texting while driving - even with children aboard - well, ok that's illegal and it most certainly should be.
7
@Joseph Ross Mayhew
Probability and risk aren't the same thing.
As another commenter wrote, "Statistically speaking, hiking an active volcano is not safer than driving a car after normalizing for the number of people doing those activities. On any given day, more people die by car crashes than by volcanic eruptions but far more people drive. On an average day in the US about 150 people die from car collisions but over 150,000,000 people ride in a car daily - a risk of about 1 in a million. At the White Island Volcano, 23 people were rescued, 6 are know dead and 8 missing and presumed dead - a risk of 14 out of 37.
You're correct though, when you write that most people wouldn't have a clue about how to assess or understand the risk. Only a very tiny percentage of people who sign up for a White Island tour would have even the remotest understanding of the mechanics of volcanology and the specific conditions on White Island. They'd assume, as we all do in so many aspects of modern life, that knowledgeable authorities have assessed and regulated risk on their behalf. Remember, these people put themselves into the hands of a for profit entity that has (had?) a profit motive to down play the negative externality of eruption risk, to frame it in a way that made it seem low. You can bet your last dollar, there was no presentation of the type of pain and injuries from contact with super heated steam to skin and respiratory organs likely to occur during an explosive eruption.
12
I couldn’t agree more. If the risks are clearly outlined, and not unreasonable, people should be allowed to pursue what they will. And as far as children are concerned, parents allow their children, and sometimes sign wavers to this effect, to engage in risky, potentially life changing and life threatening activities all the time. Skiing, youth sports (football), riding their bikes to school. The list is long.
Exploring, venturing out of our comfort zones, and taking risks, as an child or adult, are central to the human experience. There’s only so much legal bubblewrap we can cover ourselves in before we lose touch with the essence of the human experience.
5
"At the White Island Volcano, 23 people were rescued, 6 are know dead and 8 missing and presumed dead - a risk of 14 out of 37."
@John L
That is a total misunderstanding of the risk. At the White Island volcano, X number of people visited over many years, and 14 of X were killed. "Only a very tiny percentage of people who sign up for a White Island tour would have even the remotest" chance of being on the island on the day it blows.
4
There's been comments assuming that these injured tourists were interested in having a risky adventure. I doubt the parents of these children were hoping to put their kids at risk. I doubt if the seniors there were thinking, I need a story of living on the edge to share with my bridge club.
In 1994 we took our kids to the Soufrière Hills volcano on Montserrat. There was no sense of danger there as a 19 year guide walked us through this verdant valley, picking out herbs to show the kids, pointing out a few stinky, bubbling sulfur vents. My son was was collecting pure yellow sulfur deposits and bits of volcanic rock to put together a school report. As we traced a small river up into the center of this volcanic valley, the guide pointed to the caves where run-away slaves had lived for years not knowing of the island's emancipation act. The next year, two thirds of the island would be buried when this old volcano erupted and sent its pyroclastic flow down this same valley destroying the islands main town. Fortunately there was lots of small volcanic activity to tip off the impending disaster...
We want to explore the world, to understand nature, even view it up close, whether it is calving icebergs or puffing volcanoes or 50 foot storm surge waves or mountain hikes that have a few precipices. If thousands of people proceed us without injury, and we are given the basic safety equipment (hard hat and mask) we assume that this risk is minute. Lessons learned? I doubt it.
10
@Bill Cullen, Author - I believe you meant either ‘precede’ (present tense) or ‘preceded’ (past tense) of ‘precede’, meaning ‘come before something or someone in time’.
I don't really have a problem with tourists getting close. People take risks all the time. They skydive, go scuba diving, climb mount Everest... all for fun. Sometimes they get hurt. Them's the breaks!
12
There are two ways to ask that question.
Why were they allowed?
What kind of person visits an active volcano?
6
"What kind of person visits an active volcano?"
The kind of person who does not want to spend his or her entire life living in a padded cocoon, being afraid to venture out of their safe spaces? Person who would rather live fully than merely exist? Each to his / her own.
1
As long as the visitors were warned, they should be free to make the call. Risk is part of life. We don't need permission from central authorities to live our lives.
9
There isn't a place on earth that doesn't need regulations as population, economic and geographic dynamics change. But people live in a fantasy world and don't want to control their own future. Imagine HOW many bad things would happen if regulations didn't exist!
5
It's always tragic when innocent people die unnecessarily. But I think of all the children killed in the last decade by firearms - in their own schools, taking NO risks, and we wring our hands and say "if only there was an answer!"
Imagine if this was met with "thoughts and prayers" and on to the next tour.
26
I don't understand, you're looking for someone to blame. I hate to seem callus and unfeeling, but without more to go on, I would have to say the injured and worse are to blame. People have to be responsible for there own actions. No one forced them to be there. I think it is a uniquely American notion that the government has to protect us from all danger or that when someone is injured we say, who can we sue. Volcanoes are inherently dangerous. Humans have known this since the beginning of time. As I said before, people are responsible for their own safety.
13
Photos showed that the tour operators provided hard hats and respirators. I'm curious to know if the tourists had also worn fire-fighting jumpsuits, would that have protected them enough to escape this volcanic event? Or is the temperature of a volcanic burst too intense even for heat-reflecting material?
2
This article doesn’t ask the most important question: when will tourists take responsibility for their reckless actions? The volcano is advertised as active and tourists were invited to walk into it. Their irresponsibility was their’s alone.
11
I’m sure we all realize that Yellowstone National Park is the exact same thing except on a much bigger scale, correct? Caveat Emptor.
14
Why would tour operators and cruise lines tout an adventure ride, with prices starting at $260 per child, at such risk?
The question answers itself.
5
Many will respond by blaming the victims. How this is helpful is beyond me.
4
To suggest that tourists took a risk as part of their human condition also suggests that the humans have a lot of blind spots.
3
I seem to remember a video of the prime minister bungee jumping off a bridge a few years ago. The country is not afraid of risks when it comes to adventure travel. As badly as I feel for those who didn't make it off that volcano, I feel worse for those who never venture out to the dangerous limits to experience nature for all she has to offer.
8
@Ben
Nature does not "offer" anything. That's the human twist of entitlement.
5
As a pastime, I have studied the histories of famous and notorious volcanoes such as Krakatoa, Mont Pelee, Mt. Saint Helens, and Soufriere Hills. The terrible tragedy that happened at White Island was not due to some naive concept of a volcano's actions but of an unspeakable idiocy on the part of the tour operators who brought tourists to an obviously active volcano that could blow its proverbial lid at any moment. In 1902, when Pelee began to stir, even the top geological experts of that time had no thought that that volcano would produce a new product, the pyroclastic flow, that would later wipe out a nearby city of 30,000 people. In 1995, when Montserrat's Soufriere Hills began to ape Mont Pelee, Plymouth, the nearby city, was emptied of its 30,000. Lessons were learned--tragically in Martinique and wisely in Montserrat. May the events of White Island serve as a lesson for learning that no volcano is predictable and that every volcano has its terrible side.
9
It would serve everyone well to remember Richard Feynman’s astute observation following the space shuttle Challenger disaster. “Nature will not be fooled”.
12
The upper half of the North Island of New Zealand which includes Auckland, our largest city, is peppered with “dormant” volcanic cones.
The centre of the North Island is an active volcanic region. Lake Taupo is a water filled caldera formed in one of the largest eruptions in history. Nearby Tongariro National Park is dominated by two active volcanoes and is criss-crossed by walking tracks. You can climb Mt Ngaruahoe and peer down into the crater and stand on the edge of oblivion. You can climb Mt Ruapehu and see the steaming acidic crater lake or ski on one of the two commercial ski fields knowing there is the risk of eruption and lahars the latter being torrents of water and rock ejected from the crater lake. Standing atop Mt Ruapehu you can look west to the peak of Mt Taranaki a volcano on the shores of the Tasman Sea and north to Mt Tarawera which last erupted in 1886. To the east on the Pacific coast stands White Island another active volcano.
The Pacific and Australian tectonic plate boundary runs down the lower eastern flank of the North Island of New Zealand, through the heart of our capital city and continues down the entire western side of the South Island creating the Southern Alps. The alpine fault is long overdue for a major earthquake. The two major cities in the South Island Christchurch and Dunedin sit on old extinct volcanoes.
New Zealand is like Yosemite, California, Hawaii and Alaska rolled into one.
We ALL live with the risk of devastation every day.
18
Informative article. So tour company, the GeoNet site, and govt officials are all mum. The self preservation instinct of bureaucracies is duly noted.
Couple follow up questions/issues: It would be interesting to know how many times the level had been raised to 2 (or higher) and the scope of past eruptions, if any. Frankly 2 out of 5 does not seem that hazardous. Was the rating wrong? What is the predictability of serious eruptions after increased activity.
2
I think it was noted that the severity of a number “2 was just a clearing of the throat,a small burp“ type of eruption; i.e. it was not going to darken the skies with ash, cause flying restrictions etc. like some other eruption s.
What many people have always known; the dangerous stuff is always more fun.
3
White Island has erupted several times in the past 20 years, each eruption would've killed people on the island. The assessment of risk is simple:
1. For a tourist visiting once the risk is low.
2. For the tour operator the risk over a 20-year period makes it virtually certain people will die, including their own staff. This is the critical fact - the tours should never have been allowed to occur.
9
The resident who said “I was going to buy one of those tours for my in-laws for Christmas,” has apparently changed her mind since the eruption. Can I get some of those tour tickets for my in-laws?
10
I'm afraid I think it was a disaster and not an accident waiting to happen.
3
The answer to Why? can be found in the movie Jerry McGuire—show me the money. And it’s hard to blame them given that the Volcano was the area’s primary source of revenue.
3
IN THIS CASE, it is the role of government to step in and protect people from their own stupidity!My suggestion is to follow the money trail. WHO PAID OFF WHOM to allow this to happen, what governmental agency was bribed by the tour operators and the owners of the island to allow tourism in the face of a clear and present danger.? All this pa ta ti and pa ta ta about the nanny state but sometimes we need a nanny to prevent us from making insane decisions which could cost lives and severe injuries.. Shortly before I began skydiving--I only made two static line jumps at Skydive Long Island-- government had banned T-25 round ball parachutes used by the military because they were considered too dangerous for the neophyte, since you could fall to the ground at perhaps 35 miles an hour, and required sky diving facilities to replace them with rectangular chutes which slowed the descent and you hit the ground at 5 10 miles an hour. Such a decision saved lives and prevented injuries.Tragedy in NZ was not inevitable.
1
@Alexander Harrison
It's New Zealand. Bribery is frowned upon here. The tour operators would have had to apply for a resource consent, paid applications fees and gone through an expensive bureaucratic process to get their license.
New Zealanders have a tolerance for risk because we are a pioneer society but we also value competence. The helicopter pilots who flew in to rescue people as soon as they saw how high the ash cloud was represent the qualities we admire. The bureaucrats that stopped all further flights as soon as they heard about it, not so much.
6
@David Your response makes no sense and in this age of virtual reality, tourists could have seen the inside of the volcano overflowing on t.v. Uncle of mine on my mother's side emigrated, like a lot of "pommies,"prisoners of mother England" to New Zealand almost a century ago, married a Maori woman and became very successful.Put down at home by others in Bradford, his hometown, as "fie Randall" because he seemed a trifle slow on the uptake,he fulfilled himself professionally as a businessman in Auckland. But to the point and anecdotes aside, nothing is worth giving your life for, and this is a case in which u could have used someone like Michael Bloomberg to put the kibosh on useless risks.If u had written that skydiving had been forbidden because of the risk of a parachute not deploying,then I would have agreed, the risk is worth it,but in this case lives were lost for nothing. Watch it all on t.v. and why take the chance?Let us say you had someone like Michael Bloomberg as your p.m.doubt whether he would not have sought to have a law passed banning visits to an active volcano.Not everything about the" nanny state "is negative.
3
@David "New Zealanders have a tolerance for risk..."
You mean, "socialized risk", the people who profited from operating the White Island tours won't be paying for the negative externality from this inevitable disaster. The tax payers of NZ will. There was next to no moral hazard for those profiting from this foolish type of tourist entertainment.
2
It's difficult to square the mission of the regulatory agency that monitors such adventure tours that “deliberately expose the participant to a serious risk to his or her health and safety that must be managed by the provider of the activity.” and the carefree tourist brochure language ("Get close to the drama,” it read. “Gas masks help you get near roaring steam vents, bubbling pits of mud, hot volcanic streams and the amazing lake of steaming acid. And the vivid hues of yellow and orange resulting from all sulfur on the island make for remarkable photos, so have your camera ready.”)
Maybe the mention of gas masks should have given clients pause? I wonder if they were required to sign a waiver?
8
Ms. Urey’s mother is one of many who have asked, in anger, how such a tour could even exist.”
Money.
2
Same reason that people are allowed to live in the Bay Area!
5
The geological watchdog concluded the vulcano was safe to visit: case settled.
1
Because NZ need tourist money.
5
Counter question.
Why do some journalists think they're entitled to tell others what to do and try to enforce their opinions?
5
When visiting Iceland I was astounded to see that there were ropes - about 18" high - that served to mark off danger zones around waterfalls, geysirs and other dangerous locales. Simple signs warned of potential dangers. If you were stupid enough to cross that rope and look into a geysir as it erupted, that was your problem.
Some people seek danger - they shouldn't be surprised when they find it. I just don't know how informed these people were about potential risks.
I know more than a few people who climb, cave and go diving. They take calculated risks. One recently had a rock hand hold break. He fell 100 meters on a rope, hit the rock wall in correct posture and still managed to break a leg (not badly). He was more annoyed that it meant he'd be missing a Yosemite climb 3 weeks later.
6
"Why would tour operators and cruise lines tout an adventure ride, with prices starting at $260 per child, at such risk?"
Because of prices starting at $260 per child.
I mean, duh.
5
Hey, there was money to be made!!! No more explanation needed.
4
Using this writers logic you should be asking why is anyone allowed into Yellowstone National Park which is the largest volcano on Earth and 40,000 years overdue to erupt, or the City of Chicago where every week a lot more than 8 people are shot to death. Living is dangerous. If you don't want to die in an act of God stay home, but be sure you have changed the batteries in your smoke and carbon monoxide detectors.
6
They died living, let it go.
3
More people die from smoking related diseases every day in New Zealand than were killed or injured on White Island. Yet people take that risk given the danger. Second if you consider the hundreds of thousands who have visited without incident and the number recently killed/injured (agree it's a tragedy) the activity is very safe. Could be that it is more dangerous to drive to Whakatane than to visit the island. You pay your money and take your chances. All we need is a 200 page American style disclaimer and off we go again!
71
@Rawiri Part 2
"Could be that it is more dangerous to drive to Whakatane than to visit the island."
No, as another commenter wrote, "Statistically speaking, hiking an active volcano is not safer than driving a car after normalizing for the number of people doing those activities. On any given day, more people die by car crashes than by volcanic eruptions but far more people drive. On an average day in the US about 150 people die from car collisions but over 150,000,000 people ride in a car daily - a risk of about 1 in a million. At the White Island Volcano, 23 people were rescued, 6 are know dead and 8 missing and presumed dead - a risk of 14 out of 37.
24
@Rawiri Those hundreds of thousands weren't visiting during a period of increased volcanic activity
16
@John L Just a maths correction. It wasn't an average day so 14/37 isn't the risk, just the risk on that day, after the fact. How many people have died there in the years that the island has had tours and how many people have visited the island? That's your risk.
19
Having had lived in New Zealand for five years, I noticed that Kiwis tend to be less safety conscious than Americans. There is an attitude of "she'll be right," which translates into fewer safety measures and more risky behavior. Add in a profit motive and it's a recipe for disaster. These are not the first tourist deaths there and they won't be the last, unfortunately.
5
@HP
To be fair, Americans are litigious to the extreme and live in fear of everything and everyone. So there's that.
6
Certainly, people should be allowed to engage in risky behavior, up to a point. But they should also be fully-informed of the risks to which they are subjecting themselves. In this case, the risk of instantaneous death is a significant risk, as is the risk of excruciatingly painful burns. It is well-known that active volcanoes can erupt with little or no warning, and emit highly toxic and superheated gasses in the process.
Being cooked alive by such an eruption is a most horrifying end.
9
I realize climbing an active volcano certainly sounds risky and is not something we are obliged to do in daily life, but statistically speaking, probably is much safer than, say, driving, or even walking around a busy city. The odds of dying on an active volcano (even just for the self-selected group that chooses to be there) is pretty low. Thrill-seeking, sure, but risky?
6
@NYC Statistically speaking, hiking an active volcano is not safer than driving a car after normalizing for the number of people doing those activities. On any given day, more people die by car crashes than by volcanic eruptions but far more people drive. On an average day in the US about 150 people die from car collisions but over 150,000,000 people ride in a car daily - a risk of about 1 in a million. At the White Island Volcano, 23 people were rescued, 6 are know dead and 8 missing and presumed dead - a risk of 14 out of 37.
5
I think the risk is implicit when visiting ‘the most active volcano’ in ANY country, especially one in the ring of fire.
7
"Why would tour operators and cruise lines tout an adventure ride, with prices starting at $260 per child, at such risk?" The answer is in the question. Beyond that, it's possible the current reputation of a "charming" New Zealand led tourists to believe they were safe from irresponsible, money-focused tour operators.
5
Having been on Hawaii during the eruption last year, I have great sympathy for those who were killed, and even more for those who survived with horrific burns. But I do not feel it is necessary to assign blame to anyone here.
I was a couple miles away when Volcano National Park was closed to the public, after toxic fumes and boulders the size of SUV’s were ejected thousands of feet. I am a safety-conscious person, I always wear my seat belt, and I had my wife of 30 years with me. She is far less an adrenaline junkie than myself, but that red glow, that wound in the earth that exposed a fraction of it’s power? It was impossible not to want to be near it, and we spent hours on abandoned roads trying to feel it, be present at an event that reminds humanity of how small and powerless we are.
If I had been a passenger on that cruise ship, I would have reviewed the risks, and given the data available, I would have been first on the boat to visit the volcano. I suspect most people would have made the same decision. Is there a risk? Yes. Is this a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity? Yes. Will I want to go home knowing I missed such a primal display of our earth? No.
My deepest sympathies to all who were lost, are missing a family member, or will be troubled by the question of “should I have stopped this?” (The answer, as far as I can tell, is no. Hindsight is 20/20.)
Curiosity and wonder define our species. We can mourn those lost, but I don’t question their decisions for a moment.
22
My father is a doctor at Whakatane hospital. He described it as a war zone but also said that they had trained for this very scenario and the hospital managed it extremely well. It makes me proud to hear of their efforts; no doubt they have saved a lot of lives through their care.
I have a lot of questions but I trust my home country to work out what happened, hold accountable if needed. NZ is not lax in safety - we have mandatory helmets on bicycles for example. But our country is young and wild - the whole of the middle of NZ, where my family lives is on top of a supervolcano the size of Yellowstone.
22
Live free or die, as they say in New Hampshire.
That said, what's really key here is what the tourists were told. I've read differing accounts of the stated danger over the past few days, from 2 out of 5 to 4 out of 5. Personally, I'd deem an active volcano always dangerous and stay away, whether I was assured it was perfectly safe or not. But that's me.
As far as I can see, it'd be incumbent on the tour companies to stay up to date--in this case, up to the minute--on the danger involved.
18
I climbed Mt. Vesuvius 2 years ago. If the risk was posted at 2 out of 5 you can bet they would have not allowed tourists up. And if I was allowed to make my own choice and went up anyway, the responsibility, as an adult, really would be my own wouldn't it. I have a feeling the risk was not properly conveyed to the visitors. Sounds like there was ample warning.
9
@Deb Paley I should add, if the risk was assessed at 2 AND there was recent/current activity.
1
@Deb Paley
I don't know - 2 or 5 or 15 - it's an active volcano. I guess you take your chances and if you die, well, can't say I'm feeling all that sympathetic.
4
My experience all over Western Europe is that you are on your on. Nothing like the nanny state we have in the YS with the exception of a few national parks.
2
To all the readers who responded with some version of "why does daddy government telling me what I'm allowed to do," I would like to point out that they are not the victims, nor are their loved ones. This was not a playground injury; it was not a kid falling off a swing and breaking her wrist; it was not someone catching a breath of second-hand smoke outside a restaurant; it was not someone slipping on a banana peel in the grocery store. It wasn't even a raft trip in Class V water. It was a volcanic eruption with plenty of warning to local officials, to which tourists insufficiently warned of the risk were led.
45
This talk about why people should be allowed to go is nonsense. People know and accept the risk in return for the experience. I visited White Island several years ago and it was one of the highlights of our trip. The steam rising from the the sulfur crusted vents, the remnants of the mining colony, the opaque water in the crater were all part of the excitement. We signed a battery of wavers, were given instructions for what would happen if there was an eruption and our guide reminded us multiple times of the danger during our visit. We were told that if an eruption were to occur, the boat would leave and that we were to find shelter until it came back. Otherwise, if the boat were hit with debris and sank, we would have no way off the island after the event. The day was amazing, the cruise perfect and we even swam in the ocean at the island. We knew the risks, weighed our options as adults and went. Should people go? Yes if they want to. Should you cross the street knowing that people are hit and killed by cars? Yes if you want to get to the other side. Or huddle in bed all your life and hope for the best and not see or experience what there is to see.
38
If watching your children or parents burn to death, or die of smoke inhalation, before being incinerated, ot crushed by falling debris is worth that "thrill of a lifetime ", feel free.
7
@Jeff Thanks for relating your well informed, enthralling day at White Island, with a guide who was very communicative on the risks, which you even now compare to crossing a street, or getting out of bed. It's likely you would be "singing a different tune" if one third of your body had third degree burns after a rescue from your island tour.
8
@Jeff "People know and accept the risk in return for the experience."
No, that's a glib scold, human beings are lousy at assessing risk. "Thinking, Fast and Slow", a best-selling book published in 2011 by Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences laureate Daniel Kahneman, is an excellent description, based on measured evidence, just how bad we are on risk.
8
How about require each visitor to be recorded reading out loud a statement acknowledging risk and past deaths and injuries. That should be enough to scare away those who thought it was safe just because so many were going.
Without something like that, there is the tendency for tour organizers to downplay the risks, so customers aren't really aware of the actual risks.
9
Those type of warnings mean nothing to most people and knowing that others are going is enough for most. People see an organized tour and assume safety has been given ample consideration.
1
To be clear, responsible people should be able to make decisions for themselves regarding how/where they seek adventure and a high risk climb for some could just be a relaxed climb for others.
What is important though is to have as much information available regarding the risks involved. From what I've read there were risk factors that were not made know to the tourists (grandparents and kids) that could have made a difference to their decision (and it's their decision) to go on this trip. That is what the investigation should focus on.
9
Condolences to the families of the deceased and wishes for a recovery to the injured. I don’t think the tour operator, Royal Caribbean (Carnival), or the NZ government are at fault here. Responsible adults know an active volcano is not a safe place to be even when tour operators with a vested interest say otherwise. Anyone choosing to visit accepts the risk of an eruption.
12
“Responsible adults”? I’ve heard rumors they exist.
6
@Lynn in DC Lynn, half the population of "responsible adults", doesn't recognize the evidence of human caused GHG climate change, but you assert people ought to be able to recognize and assess risks associated with the mechanics of volcanology and the specific conditions on White Island?
Can you explain why?
5
A note about taking personal responsibility for risk as it relates to White Island.
A very tiny percentage of people who sign up for a White Island tour would have even the remotest understanding of the mechanics of volcanology and the specific conditions on White Island. They'd assume, as we all do in so many aspects of modern life, that authorities have assessed and regulated risk on their behalf. Remember, these people put themselves into the hands of a for profit entity that has (had?) a profit motive to down play the negative externality of eruption risk. You can bet your last dollar, there was no presentation of the type of pain and injuries from contact with super heated steam to skin and respiratory organs.
50
We visited New Zealand years ago, and it is a breathtakingly beautiful, rugged country. However, the residents do seem to have a rather casual regard to safety. We were hiking with our host up a hillside that ended with a cliff that went down to the sea many yards ahead. Hidden in what just looked like a field of tall grass, and right where we were walking, were intermittent crevices wide and deep enough to send someone to their death. There was no warning from our host, who just assumed we would look where we were walking. I was terrified for my kids and I am personally grateful for all of our safety regulations, and our negligence laws.
40
Yes, much better living in a litigious, nanny country rather than teaching people to watch where they step.
4
@Dolphin The crevices were hidden in the grass, and we had no idea they were there until my daughter almost slipped in one. Kids run when they see a field, and we saw no reason not to let them-- until we did. No, with a warning, any warning, we would not have gone. It's a different experience when you are there and it is your family.
13
Governments and their agencies pass laws requiring seat belts, hardhats, and the observation of traffic lights and stop signs. Yes when you voluntarily visit a volcano there is a risk whether the volcano is active or not. Etna is manned by an international team of geologists and sometimes an errant boulder spewing forth kills a tourist. I think the New Zealand government does need to display some sense of responsibility if it wants to protect its adventure tourism industry. I bet no one had to sign a disclaimer prior to signing on for one of these White Island trips.
7
People need to be responsible for their own decisions and not depend on the government to decide for them.
2
Here's hoping all involved in the rescue and recovery efforts are safe and that the injured recover. I have a friend who is doubtless in the middle of supporting government and emergency services, as well as journalists covering this disaster.
Why visit an active volvano? The same very human reasons drive this as do such things as mountain climbing, drag racing, surfing, or going to the moon. Humans are adventurous types. Efforts to overly limit the risks people take on should be considered in the light that they may actually increase the attractiveness of such dangers.
9
Mountain climbers climb mountains
Drag racers race
surfers surf
Swimmers swim
Astronauts go to moon
These are not curious humans, they are often professionals or skilled at something
These victims were TOURISTS who had every reason to believe they were guided by responsible people.
4
"who is ultimately accountable for ensuring visitors’ safety: the family that owns the remote island, or the government charged with enforcing health and safety regulations?"
If the island is private property, then the owner is responsible for tourist safety. That is why all homeowners in North America are obliged to purchase homeowner's insurance: to protect from such liabilities.
Why do simple questions applied so readily to the lower classes become so complicated when they risk being applied to the wealthy?
13
Why were tourists allowed to visit an active volcano? Money. They were 'tourists' and tourism means money. Somebody got paid and that's all that counts. As always, follow the . . . Money.
9
Maybe I missed it, but WHY is the name of the family that OWNS White Island not mentioned? Hmmmmm.... influential connections?
13
The 'nearby town' of Hamilton, NZ is actually 105 miles to the west of white island. Learn geography if you're going to write outside the U.S.
10
I can answer your headline question as someone who lived in NZ for three plus years:
There is this attitude that the volcanoes there won't erupt to kill you. For example, in winter on the north island, you ski on an active volcano. Along the slopes, they have volcano warning sirens just in case the volcano decides to go off.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Ruapehu
Last March, I flew an ultralight plane right past the island, which is off to sea away from the Bay Of Plenty. It was steaming away. My mate in the seat next to me said, "Get this, mate - they take people out there and let them walk in the active crater, on tours."
My question was, "Why?"
He told me it's privately owned and the tours were making money.
There's your answer. The government couldn't stop it and volcanoes don't get much respect down there because they ski on one.
Sad ending.
31
Why not?
If you get told you might burn in a volcano and still you show up, whose fault is that?
Nanny government can only protect people so much, but should never ever try to protect people from their own stupidity.
Nanny government and dumb people is why my coffee cup reads 'warning, hot coffee is hot' and tide pills read 'not for food'.
Let them do this, with no insurance, they do this knowing the risk and it's on them.
11
Why?
Greed, and stupid disregard for rational forethought.
8
Money. Next question
9
Sadly, just another example of the foolishness, greed and yes, stupidity, afflicting our species.
6
Why?
Answer - money
8
Because tour guides need money and people like to take risks. That’s part of the thrill of the ride.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/10/19/nyregion/action-park-movie.amp.html
There are an average of 4.5 deaths per year in United States amusement parks each year but people keep lining up for that. Six Flags and DisneyWorld has killed WAY more people than White Island ever will! And that’s not even the parents who commit suicide waiting in line at Gaston’s Tavern only to find out the park serves no alcohol!
“What?! No alcohol? There better be some gators in that water... I’m goin’ in!!”
15
@Pass the MORE Act: 202-224-3121 --
Maybe you haven't been to Disney World in a while, but as of 2018, alcohol is served in all park restaurants.
Most of those who die at amusement parks did not follow the rules or had health conditions they either did not know about or chose to ignore.
1
Approaching an active, erupting volcano is an unmistakable experience. Volcanoes give off massive amounts of steam, rotten-egg smelling gasses, flying debris, and ash. An increase in earthquake frequency and intensity occurs before and during an eruption that can be felt for many kilometers away. Many unique humans over the centuries have been attracted to these events and never returned. Natural selection is still occurring in our species and no amount of signs or warnings will stop that.
9
Over population by humans is the underlying issue at the heart of most of our problems: climate change being first among them.
We need to begin reducing our numbers immediately to have a chance at a global future for the human species which will be worth living.
Encouraging humans to engage in risky, possibly lethal activities is an excellent way to reduce the human population using volunteers who are happy to do so.
Those humans who thrill to risky and life-threatening adventures should be encouraged to seek out and experience such thrilling activities.
Tours to dangerous environs such as active volcanoes, the ocean depths, and outer space, should be subsidized and encouraged by governments worldwide.
Let's keep our eyes on the big picture.
Living a long, long life is over-rated anyway.
It's quality, not quantity that matters most.
5
Another classic example of why the human race is doomed...we just can't think properly and help ourselves.
5
“That tells you there’s a source of heat under the volcano that is constantly supplying hot gasses and heating up fluids under the molten rock or magma,” he added. “Basically you have this hot cooker system at constant high temperature and high pressure that could explode at any time.”
By this way of thinking, Yellowstone National Park and other similar hot springs type of sites would be off limits, as well. There must be a balance drawn -- not everything is this black and white.
7
@JayinDC Yellowstone is the site of a potential supervolcano. The volcanic potential is being very closely monitored. No point in visitors staying away. If it blows, may not matter too much how far away you are.
3
It's the price you pay for enjoying one of natures greatest spectacles. Stop policing everyone.
9
If I read this article correctly, people died because they weren’t policed. Oh well, people are free to make choices, even ignorant and uninformed ones. 63 million Americans proved that in 2016.
13
@TTom : Just don’t expect me to pay more taxes for first responders and higher health insurance premiums to treat your expensive medical care. Accept to die if you take life threatening risks and things go wrong.
9
We all know what comes next ....
The deceased family members will
Now be Suing the Cruise line for millions of dollars for allowing those tourists to visit the island
3
Where is the prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, to handle the aftermath of this predictable disaster? Maybe this is not the right photo op; however, politicians do elected to serve in good times and bad.
She very quickly responded to this. You might want to look further than the NYT for that side of the story. The Herald or Dominion Post perhaps.
5
She has been front and centre, and acted admirably. A geothermal eruption of this nature is unpredictable. I would advise researching this disaster with other international news outlets other than NYT’s limited take.
3
According to the first NYT article I read on this topic, she is actively involved in responding to the situation and has made several statements about it. What do you have against her?
3
Tour operators---whether a volcanic island, mountain climbing, cave-diving or off-piste skiing, etc.---rely on the same guest assumption we all make when we open a vial of drugs that is marked with "dire" warnings ("...side effects including death...").
We note the warning (perhaps) but quickly conclude "If it were really THAT dangerous, they wouldn't allow me to take this drug at all" or "If it was REALLY that dangerous, they wouldn't allow me to stand on the rim of this crater."
Except, sometimes it really IS that dangerous. And, we're kidding ourselves with false assurances. As a friend once put it, "Tickle the dragon all you want. Sooner or later, the dragon wakes up. And you won't know when. Make sure it's not you standing there when that happens."
11
Volcanos are Earth's way of giving birth to land, who isn't drawn to that?
6
"The better part of valor is discretion, in the which better part I have sav'd my life."
John Falstaff in Henry The Fourth, Part 1 Act 5, scene 4
5
"GeoNet, the agency that monitors geological activity in New Zealand, had reported increased activity at the volcano for several weeks, raising the warning level to 2 out of 5, while maintaining that the island was still safe for visitors."
GeoNet get this wrong--dead wrong. If an official govt. agency had told me the risk of an activity was only 2 out of 5, I probably would have gone on that tour myself. Let's not blame the victims here. They were given bad information from a presumably trustworthy source.
6
"There has to be more respect for nature" (Jozua Otterloo). That sums it up nicely. This is a tiny reflection of our disrespect for nature and not surprising given our collective indifference towards issues like global warming.
8
Odd that you would mention the island has been owned by generations of a family without giving us any information on who they are and the history of their acquisition of the island or what they might have charged the people who died there.
9
@PDXBruce Maybe it’s more important to get the basic, important aspects of the tragic story out first, with secondary detail possible later. The information about the eruption can't be found on google, except for references back to news articles. What you’re looking for is probably searchable online.
3
My most recent trip off the continent was to Maui as a staff member for a retreat sponsored by my yoga center. On our final day we traveled to the top of Mount Haleakalā, a national park and volcano our lead called “extinct”. The last eruption is thought to have been in the 1700s. It was an optional day trip some older participants skipped because of concerns about the climb and altitude of the rim at 10,000 feet. My only criteria was the word “extinct”.
It was an eerie, powerfully spiritual experience to perch cross-legged on the edge of what looked like Mars and meditate. As I gazed into the barren bowl, blasted clean of all life and still sterile after centuries, I pictured a direct conduit to the molten energy of the earth’s core and shivered. Due to the thin air, everything seemed otherworldly: sound, smell, my head, the sparse plant and animal life (bees! At 10,000 feet?) barely beginning to reclaim the edges of the crater.
I later learned at the visitor center that Haleakalā is actually considered “dormant” with an eruption cycle of 200-500 years and may still erupt at any time. But if I had heard that there was any hint of steam escaping as has been happening at White Island, I would have stayed far behind with the elders!
4
@left coast finch years ago I climbed Mt. Ranier in Oregan. On reaching the summit, we were roped up, and it was very interesting to walk amongst the steam vents, smell the sulphur, then sit and eat our lunch. The chances of the volcano coming to life while we were there were very remote. I would go again (if I were capable now of the climb to over 14,000 ft).
2
@Lyn Actually - Mt. Rainier is in Washington State, part of the Cascade Range.
1
With all due respect the tourist got what they wanted, an exhilarating experience. Some of them ended up dead, others in a lot of pain and years to fully recover from their burns and probably some type of lung disease. Apparently $ was not an issue as the tour was not inexpensive.
The owners of the island and the tour operators got their money.
New Zealand's tourism got a black eye.
Personally, I have the view that many native people in many parts of the world have. That is to leave nature alone and respect it from afar. I fully understand that the white view of the world is to do and go wherever you want to go whenever you want to go, especially if you have the means to do so. Then, you explain away your philosophical reasons, your soul searching reasons, your connection to the planet etc...
Technology and and scientists think that they know everything. Clearly as we can see in this event of nature, they don't.
But, I am sure those tourists, the NZ government, the tour operator, and island owners are happy with the outcome.
7
The notion of there being a "white view of the world" is actually pretty racist. If you don't think so, consider the phrase "a black view of the world".
10
@Dan Stackhouse
There might very well be a “black view of the world.” At least an American black view. Not sure how it is racist.
1
Dear Lynn in DC,
The racism is due to the assumption that everyone with the same skin color shares the same viewpoint. This is also simply not true.
4
Tourism in an active volcano with explosive eruptions? Well in the US there is a project out west with a large active volcano that millions visit every year and it has regular bursts of ash, mud and steam from many areas. Think Yellowstone.
5
Yet another puzzling decision by Royal Caribbean. Incidents resulting in customer injury or death seem to plague the company.
1
@H. Stern
Cruise passengers engage in puzzling behavior, such as leaving a toddler unsecured at an open window on the 11th floor of a cruise ship, and are shocked when their own behavior leads to tragedy and then wanting to sue for damages.
2
They figured that they would call the equivalent of 911 and all would be good.
3
Tourists often have a false sense of security about resorts and excursions. No one is protecting you but you. It is a volcano.
12
Yet again, an example of people with more money than sense.
People have become so disconnected with nature, so de-sensitized to the wilds that they don't have the skills to accurately judge risk. That goes for the tourists as well as the companies that offer the chance to go touch nature. Well, nature touches back occasionally and humans always come up with the short end of the stick.
What was that great line from Jurassic Park....'...if The Pirates of the Caribbean breaks down, the pirates don't eat the tourists."
14
Statistically I bet this was a reasonable gamble. But that’s the problem with low odds, someone is that .01 percent.
12
Poas Volcano in Costa Rica has been off limits for visitors in recent months. Tourists and the industry don’t like restrictions and some tour operators often break the rules. But it is shocking that this preventable tragedy happened in a developed country.
6
The Hawaiian islands are active and you don't see anyone recommending people don't visit them let alone live there... What about the Kilauea eruption that destroyed homes? Mt St Helens, the list can go on of active volcanoes where people visit with no issue or warning.
7
@Shane We had a lot of warning before the huge eruption of Mt St Helens. We knew it was coming. Nonetheless people went camping hours before the massive eruption. The loss was heartbreaking.
4
Since we had lots of warning before Mt. St. Helens erupted, when people went camping on it right before it blew, the loss was not heartbreaking. People doing risky things that get themselves killed is no big deal.
3
So pleased to hear you’re not losing sleep over this. No big deal. As John Donne says, every man is an island, so who cares about the rest of the archipelago?
1
here in the lower Puna district of the Big Island of Hawaii people not only would visit shooting, pouring, spouting, flowing lava, but build their house on top of a known lava fissure leading to an active volcano. developers and real estate agents sell plots and houses in the most risky (lava zone 1) areas to main-landers as an opportunity to own a piece of paradise.
7
1. the risk of exploring an active volcano is obvious.
2. people like doing risky things...like trying to climb everest for example where people die every year.
3. nature is not a theme park.
23
@LPR indeed. Years ago when I started to take up mountaineering, one of our instructors told us something I have never forgotten, and still believe to be true: the mountains are indifferent to our fate. They are beautiful, provide adventure, but we have to look after ourselves. I feel the same is true of the seas, rivers and the rest of this planet, and most definitely the universe. If the mountains are indifferent, why not the universe, the former being part of the latter.
8
We live in a competitive world where money is speech and trumps life.
It is a world where a lot of negative and/or bad things are rewarded.
We are destroying the world for profit.
7
@Grove This may be an example of the "world fighting back"?
5
In 2000 we retired to Leilani Estates on the Island of Hawaii where we had bought three acres to build our dream home.
The house was a total success and we couldn’t be happier.
The only problem was that, as Haoles from the mainland, there was an undercurrent of hostility of not being welcome by the native Hawaiian community.
After two years we decided to leave Hawaii and settle in Provence, a beautiful rural section of the south of France.
Fifteen years later the volcano above Leilani Estates exploded and spewed lava throughout our neighborhood, destroying over 700 homes.
There had not been an eruption in 60 years so no one expected this catastrophe.
Many lives have been forever changed and Leilani Estates may eventually cease to exist.
11
This:
"...prices starting at $260 per child..."
“There has to be more respect for nature. We can’t assume we can access anything we want".
Money and human arrogance (no, we cannot do whatever we want) are at the root of this tragedy.
4
Reminds me of walking around the Grand Prismatic spring at Yellowstone and reading the warning signs that I was there at my own risk and a steam explosion could happen without warning.
17
We just returned from Sicily and a tour of Mt Etna. Exhilarating and incredibly beautiful. It's active of course but, we were told by our tour guides, very closely monitored by the government. I believed them and seriously doubt we would have toured the mountain had there been any semblance of an immediate threat. Doesn't appear this was the case in NZ
4
Yellowstone is an ever-changing magma mountain that now has hotels, foot paths,roads build on it. Hawaii has live volcanoes with steam vents and hot magma that are tourist sites, also solidified lava that anyone can walk over to see the active hot magma pour it into the ocean. This volcano is no different. Earth is alive and ever changing. It is a choice to go see these sights or not. We each choose our adventure and our risk. Get over it. Blaming others and lawsuits have become a way of life for some people who think someone else is always responsible. They are not. We each choose.
17
@Skyla
Yellowstone is a dangerous place to walk around, I'll give it that. Being the world's largest mega-volcano, when it blows, much of life on earth will be destroyed, not just the tourists enjoying the spectacular scenery there. It last had a major eruption hundreds of thousands of years ago. But, all the little hot gurgly spots and geysers are certainly dangerous enough in themselves while the pressure builds up for the big event which hopefully won't happen for a few thousand years.
White Island is a small island with a very active volcano. While Yellowstone's caldera is basically the entire park, this island is the caldera. An active caldera. I see this as a place for volcanologists, not tourists. I mean, gas masks?
When people run a business and that business is not safe, they can be sued. That's just life when you collect money for something. GeoNet Level 2 means moderate volcanic unrest, but they also declared the island safe for tourism. So, it doesn't seem likely the owner of the island or the tour company can be sued successfully. GeoNet seems to be a government agency. Good luck suing the government of New Zealand.
3
You can't make stupidity illegal. 99.1% of people probably don't understand the differing types of volcanoes. A risk assessment scale for any expedition (prepared by a third party of geologists) would be useful to simply communicate the level of danger. You can require informed consent. Everyone should decide whether to risk their own lives. Children should never be allowed on such a trip. Of course, any signed consent and acknowledgement of the danger would most likely nullify insurance claims.
11
How is Yellowstone different?
3
It's called greed. Companies risk human lives to make a buck.
5
I own a home in Cromwell, south island.
I'm concerned that due to varying degrees of government regulation (whenever labor and national governments take control) that New Zealand tourism has the potential of killing itself. This sad story of White Island reminds me of how badly Nepal has grown corrupted by the rush hour traffic paying permit fees for access to the summit of Mr Everest.
Queenstown NZ (30 miles from my house) draws so many tourists that they're flushing toilet waste in such large amounts... it's overloading the ability of waste water treatment. It's a dirty little secret, literally, that downstream Cromwell's water supply -is- above limits due to Queenstown.
Coming by 2020 when China hosts the winter olympics: 300 million Chinese skiers! The new prestige sport of China will flood European and American ski resorts with customers during northern hemisphere winters. Now, imagine the impact on New Zealand during June-November ski season there! Already, lift lines are about 15% asian.
5
Has the author never considered that it's not the role of daddy government to save people from themselves? As someone who engages in extremely dangerous activities like driving and showering and mountain climbing and scuba diving, I really don't need the government telling me which of these I'm allowed to engage in.
We all have to die; we don't all have to die of boredom. The world is a gift for us to explore.
202
@Michael-in-Vegas
Look at it another way. If private businesses are profiting handsomely from exposing tourists to risk, why shouldn't they be financial liable when some tourists succumb to the risk? Why should the tourists accept all the risk while the cruise line companies, tour operators and New Zealand locals make all the profits? It is entirely reasonable to require them to shoulder some of the financial responsibility.
79
@Michael-in-Vegas Exactly. Let's get rid of all guns, drugs and driving laws while we are at it.
22
@Michael-in-Vegas
What about the risk to first responders, who must risk their lives to save thrill seekers (who don't want to die of boredom). Maybe if you sign a waiver that says I don't want anyone to try and rescue me if things go wrong, I'll just accept my fate.
151
One of the people who grew up and still lives there is quoted as saying that the fact school tours were allowed when she was a student led her to believe that it must be safe to go there. That doesn't sound like someone who actually understands the risks. And the tourists probably think similarly---that if the locals go there, it must be safe. If the promotional materials said, "If anything large or small suddenly "blows," expect 3rd degree burns over a large portion of your body," then anyone who still decided to visit could be said to be knowingly taking the risk.
11
The risks of the tour seem to have been communicated to the tourists. Even the cruise line promotional info appears to have mentioned that gas masks are provided and exposure to killer natural features is part of the experience. People need to take responsibility for the amount of risk that they want to experience. Events like these should remind us to assess our daily living risks.
5
Hiking the freshly emerged planet on the flanks of Kilauea, next to lava streams and steam vents, fully aware that we were walking on the thin shelf of the edge of the flow that, by its nature, would at some point soon, fall into the sea — was a transcendent experience. To behold the world renewing itself as lava poured into the Pacific sending billowing clouds of steam into the sky while standing on the still warm lava field was completely worth the risk, as I am sure it was for many who visited White Island. Like some of them, we also brought our children. For us it was not for the adrenaline or enhancing our social media reputations, as implied by some commentators, but to be present and humbled by the power and majesty of our planet and nature. I am a better and more grateful person for the experience and think about our existence through the lens of geologic time throughout each day. Experiences at Yellowstone, Mount Saint Helens, Pompeii, Arenal, hiking in the San Andreas fault, and other places of wonder have similarly impacted me. We live on an astounding and active planet— to be fully aware and awake to that makes for a richer existence. Our family has only lived in geologically active areas, they make for incredibly beautiful and inspiring places. I’m looking out my window at Mt Rainer, one of the most dangerous volcanoes in the US, and grateful for the daily reminder of the true nature of our planet — it is worth the risk.
36
@E Forrest
Yes, visiting Mt. Arenal terrified me because it erupts a little bit every day. A mother and daughter on a tourist hike had been killed from hot gas escaping a crack in the side of the volcano a few days before I was there. All the signs say to back into parking spots to make evacuation just a few seconds faster. But for the days that I was there at the hot springs resort built at its base, I knew that we were all sitting ducks.
4
Pompeii is just as much of a tourist attraction as an active volcano. We are moths to a flame.
6
Seems to me everyone knew they were walking around on top of an active volcano, that's what the attraction was billed as. What I don't understand is why these sorts of things are seen as a big tragedy. When people go mountain climbing, or particularly free climbing with no ropes or safety gear, and they fall to their deaths, this is not a tragedy. They knew they were taking a major risk, and they lost the throw of the dice.
What's really tragic is that whales are washing up on the beaches dead, with their guts full of plastic. Coral reefs that have existed for thousands of years are becoming bleached and lifeless. The Sumatran rhino was just rendered extinct by humans' environmental destruction, and koalas, giraffes, gorillas, emperor penguins, and a million other species are also threatened with extinction due to our actions.
So my apologies, but a handful of human lives simply does not matter, particularly when they chose to put themselves in extreme danger. What the world needs more than anything else is less humans, and it is high time humanity realized that.
121
I was boarding an excursion boat to an island in Sri Lanka recently when the boat became seriously overloaded; the vibe was reckless and haphazard.
I stepped off the boat.
We all need to develop an instinctual awareness of danger and act on it when necessary.
Do not rely on anyone else to protect you when the chips are down.
In fact, those closest to the hazards and danger habitually normalize the risk.
Know what you are getting into and assess the odds.
122
@Eric Lamar I agree to an extent, but NZ is a first world country whilst SL is not. Right or wrong we expect first world countries to have safety as a priority and don't question it so much.
1
Why do we let people get behind the wheel of a machine that ways a couple tons and drive them 70 mph around other people doing the same, especially knowing full well that the act can be dangerous and it results in the deaths of thousands if not millions globally each year?
11
You are making a wildly false equivalency that ignores the fact that one, driving a car, has become a necessity in our time and the other, walking amidst an active volcano, is DECIDEDLY NOT.
4
"Why was anyone — from retirees to children — allowed to tour the crater of an active volcano, despite warnings about bursts of gas and steam in recent weeks?"
A sad by-product of the existence of regulations is the idea that "if I am not prevented from doing it, it must be safe." I don't know how to get around this. Between the extreme of having everything in our lives regulated, and having no control at all, how do you find that middle ground of not talking about "allowing" grown folks to do stuff and expecting them to have prudence and common sense?
43
"You’re walking ...onto the floor of a very active volcano where there are steaming gas vents, where there are crater lakes filled with hot water close to boiling temperatures...."
Sounds a lot like another popular tourist destination: Yellowstone National Park, visited by millions of people every year. Should we consider curtailing tourists' access to it upon consideration of this event?
Please, let's not overreact. If tourists are going to do something that is inherently risky, they should educate themselves about the risks. Anyone could have used the internet to figure out for themselves that there was increased activity on the island. And if tour operators are going to guide people into risky situations, they should educate their clients about the risks and take responsibility for monitoring the factors that can increase the risk. In this case, the tour operators had clearly gotten complacent.
People are naturally fascinated by the overwhelming force and stunning beauty of nature. Let people continue to have those encounters with nature within reasonable limits. Statistically, the probability of White Island visitors being harmed by an eruption is still tiny.
13
@MRod There has been no major volcanic activity in Yellowstone for 600,000 years. Also, it IS very closely monitored on an ongoing basis.
22
Fully agree but don't expect others to risk their lives if something goes wrong
3
@Clyde True -- but FWIW Yellowstone is a super volcano. When it erupts, it'll devastate most of North America so curtailing access wouldn't really provide much protection. You don't have to be in or near it to be in danger.
8
My wife and I took one of those "walking tours" while on safari in Kenya three decades ago.
We found ourselves surrounded by a colony of baboons. I had lived in Africa for several years in the 1970s and knew some of the risks, but never experienced such an episode.
I immediately told my wife "no eye contact." We walked slowly with our heads down, but aware of our surroundings, until we reached our safari vehicle. Yes, we were lucky, we know that.
37
Whilst I have all sympathies for the victims and their families, I don't see any moral or ethical issues with letting people do dangerous things as long as they are fully aware of the risks, and the risks are being monitored carefully.
It is still much more dangerous to visit your bathroom or kitchen than a volcano.
32
I don’t think I would ever feel comfortable putting my life at risk for no real reason, apart from just thrill-seeking. It seems rather trivial, and I would feel horribly guilty about those who may have to rescue me in the event that it was necessary. Particularly if they were members of the RNLI (Royal National Lifeboat Institution), who are mainly volunteers.
16
Why? Because of the money.
9
Because in other countries people are responsible for their own safety.
21
My late Father-in-Law was a "Kiwi," and we have relatives in New Zealand. Volcanoes are a way of life there. The north island is akin to Yellowstone with its volcanic activity.
Not many people know the capitol Auckland sits on top of an active caldera. Lake Taupo fills the caldera for now, but it could be a disaster in the making. That said, it seems to me something as extreme as White Island should be off limits, and probably will be now.
13
@Mark McIntyre small correction - Auckland isn’t the capital. That’s Wellington.
18
@mark, did your late father in-law go sightseeing in one or some of those active volcanos island in NZ? My guess is no, because locale people know the danger, only tourists would do such a thing, especially tourists from the west! I’m from a third world country and I know many off limit places to us locales are hot destinations for tourists, especially western tourists! We locale have been wondering why ? Good luck !
1
@Alister Grigg Wellington sits on an extremely active fault zone and has experienced many major earthquakes.
4
Its simple: we don't need no gummint regulations. If we want to let job creating billionaires dump toxic chemicals in our rivers, hey, thats free enterprise. Right guys?
11
I thought "I was going to buy one of those tours for my in-laws for Christmas" was a punch line. Apparently, the young woman was being quite earnest.
17
If someone will buy it, we sell it. Next?
9
The government has responsibility; the tour operators have responsibility; but the tourists have their own responsibility which they cannot shirk by shifting blame. Climbing Mt. Washington, there are signs warning that climbers have died even in the summer when weather was not ideal. We turned back in the mist when we were about 500 feet below the top.
26
Why was this a ‘hot’ location of interest? Lack of knowledge or interest in scoping out where you will vacation. The information about eruptions was out there beginning in 2011. One could sensibly point a finger at the NZ government and be right.
7
@NOTATE REDMOND "Why was this a ‘hot’ location of interest? Lack of knowledge or interest in scoping out where you will vacation."
On the contrary, the reason the island is a vacation attraction is because it's an active volcano. Otherwise hardly anyone would go there.
4
I think the White Island volcano is a great metaphor for the current state of US Democracy:
Anyone not in denial knows there is a clear and present danger from the would-be dictator in the oval office. But we keep telling ourselves it's going to be fine, because... well, because things continue to look more or less normal on the SURFACE.
But the sulfur-laden gasses keep seeping out, the temperatures keep rising.
When will it blow?? We don't know, but it could be any time - and millions will get metaphorical first, second and third degree burns.
And we sure can't say we haven't been warned.
54
@Ambient Kestrel With all due respect, if you shift your focus to the system that put the 'would-be dictator' in the oval office, you'll be onto the real clear and present danger.
7
Unlike how we do things in the US, NZ will probably quickly pass a law so this doesn't happen again.
12
“In hindsight, it was an accident waiting to happen.”
There was plenty of foresight saying the same thing.
52
When I walked up to the top of Vesuvius and saw smoke coming out of the crater, I told myself that if anything happens, I have no one but myself to blame.
67
@PaulN That's called "freedom". Good for you. It's the same climbing to the crater's edge of the active volcano Mt. Yasur on Tanna island in Vanuatu. You evaluate the risks, decide if it's worth it, and make your own choice.
4
This risk should be allowed.
Live by the fire, die by the fire.
There is no public benefit to preventing people from seeking this thrill.
There is also no public damage if thrill seekers die.
17
@Stephan V I agree the risk should be allowed. Everyday tourists are risking their lives at yellowstone national park which is an active volcano that will blow eventually; and Mt. Lassen National Park which has active bubbling fumeroles and hot lakes of whatever. It is very exciting to get this close to nature and its beginnings, and to realize you're nothing but a pebble rolling around on this great earth. I am so sorry these tourists lost their lives and were seriously injured. However, we all take risks to our lives every single day.
18
@Stephan V I would agree if I felt that tourists were given a realistic appraisal of the risk. It seems as though the risks were downplayed and the adventure aspect emphasized. There should have been a warning on all advertising literature "This volcano can erupt and kill you or leave you with 3rd degree burns at any moment".
4
@Stephan V True enough, but what about the children who trust their elders for their protection and safety?
Lives cut short by their thrill seeking parents. Is this fair?
5
“Gas masks help you get near....”
Ultimately the government allowed this; with an abhorrent health and safety plan and disregard of the clear risk. Pricing for children is evidence of further culpability.
10
@nick, the gvt allowed many things, sometimes risky things for example so many sugary food but you make a decision for yourself!
4
@Nick the nanny state is the problem here in the US. Personal responsibility and a government not controlled by slip and fall attorneys is a good thing. Personal safety is not bequeathed or rescinded by any government
4
All the reasons listed to NOT allow people to visit the island are all the reasons people WANT to visit the island. Yes, it’s sad that these people were seriously injured or died but climbing the world’s tallest mountains has tremendous risks, too, and climbers often meet their deaths trying to negotiate the dangerous summits of these mountains.
IMO, common sense should tell people, whether the tour guides inform them or not, that the experience of visiting this island is dangerous and has a life/death risk. The mere fact that a waiver is required by the tour company for a trip to the volcano reinforces the danger of it. Why shouldn't people be allowed to go if they assume responsibility for themselves? All those petty, whiney people trying to blame someone when a person dies as a result of their own choice, need to get busy with their own lives and quit trying to legally mandate others' personal choices.
15
@Scott I'm a dive instructor and agree with much of what you say, with the following caveat: the government and tour operators should probably have warned visitors of the increased activity and what it could mean. If they chose to go under those circumstances, so be it. We tell divers about the inherent diving risks all the time and expect them to make a decision with regards to their own safety; however, the captain or divemaster reserves the right to determine if conditions are unacceptable at any time during the boat ride out or the dive itself. I guess I'm saying if all things are equal, the visitor should be bear the risk, but if the situation is known to have changed, the operators should either decide not to operate tours or should provide additional information about the perceived risks.
10
We are in our seventies and have been to New Zealand several times. It’s easier to get off the beaten path there and take advantage of the many opportunities for outdoor adventure. We’ve taken a few risks over the years but were usually briefed about possible dangers ahead of time by our (local) tour guides. In addition we were told that the responsibility for whatever happened would be on us. They could take care of us medically but we would not be allowed to sue anyone or put the blame anywhere but where it belonged...on us. Things happen of course but no more often than here. You just don’t have a lot of lawyers making money off tragedy there. And gun violence is practically non-existent.. and their health care system is superior to ours. We could learn a lot from those Kiwis.
51
Part of the problem is that people are out of touch with nature, and because they are removed, they want to see these natural phenomenon up close, not realizing how dangerous they are. Our ancestors had a healthy respect for volcanoes and mountains. The tour operators used poor judgement for the sake of the almighty buck. There will be lawsuits, and maybe lessons learned from this.
11
@Birdygirl
'phenomena'
Two years ago we took a cruise to Hawaii with Kīlauea Volcano being the one thing that we hoped to see. After we made our plans including the excursion to the volcano, the volcano erupted. I followed what I could read online with the U.S. Geological Services, The National Park located at the volcano, and local Hawaiian newspapers. All sources stated that there was damage to infrastructure, that the National Park was closed, the interpretive centre at the volcano was damaged and closed, and many people had been evacuated due to the lava. Months later and weeks before our departure the cruise line was stating that they had no information indicating that excursions were cancelled. Everything was a go from their perspective and the staff person said to me that she was unaware of any issues.I cancelled and got a refund for the excursion. I suggested that she read a newspaper or watch the evening news. I have no idea why the cruise line operated in that manner but we won't book on it in future for any destination.
57
@Randy Harris
Randy, would you be comfortable sharing just which cruise line that was?
5
@Randy Harris
The type of eruption in Hawaii is much less explosive than in NZ, so depending on how close that cruise excursion was going to get it might have been reasonably safe.
Reading the range of comments here, I was reminded of a trip we took from the USA up into Canada and across to Drumheller to visit the Royal Tyrrell Museum. A wonderful destination.
Along the way we made many stops, and one which I cannot recalled the name of had a long board walk back into narrow canyons to a delightful waterfall complex. There were absolutely no fences, gates, and only a small warning sign that the rocks might be slippery.
We commented afterwards that such access would be absolutely forbidden in the US, with the balance of protection against risk, vs. serious injury or death being on the side of prohibiting anyone from getting anywhere near the edges of the stream.
Such are the choices we make. I shudder to think of the pictures of the one ledge in Norway, I think Troll's Tongue, where brave folk sit with their legs dangling over what must be 100s if not 1000s of feet of free air to the rocks below.
One might speculate that for those with courage enough to sit there that their lives and appreciation of nature were enriched enough to make the risk worth taking.
10
@reid
There is a place in Ireland near the sea with very slippery rocks. People fall off a lot but interestingly enough it is almost exclusively Americans. Apparently it is Americans who think standing on slippy rock on the edge of a cliff is a good idea.
23
@reid - Looking Glass Rock is a granite dome along the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina. I’ve sat on top of its curved face gazing at the magnificent valley below, aware that moving a few inches forward could mean sliding off the curved rock to my death. Access is not restricted. Places like that do still exist in the U. S.
1
@reid
You must check out the Grand Canyon, south rim.
People can walk up to the edge of the canyon, with a multiple 100 foot drop off. Nary a railing in sight. This is within touching distance of a sidewalk and within walking distance of the canyon hotel...not off the beaten track.
2
I just returned from a trip where we toured the caldera of an active volcano, which theoretically could erupt any time.
The difference is that there hadn’t been any reports of increased activity.
Visitors to White Island should have been informed of the reports so they can make their own decisions as to the level of risk they are willing to accept
6
@ml And you consider your decision to visit said caldera wise? That we should permit geologically uneducated tourists to visit such spots? I don't think so, and I'm geologist.
10
@ml Visitors to White Island should have done their own due diligence and ensured they had enough information to be comfortable with the decisions they made themselves about the level of risk they were willing to accept.
The reports weren't secret.
1
I’ve read too many accounts of past volcanic eruptions- e.g. Pompei, Krakatoa and read and seen too many photos of more recent ones -Pinatubo, Mount St. Helens and Kilauea to have any desire to emulate people who want to walk short distances from lava flows, boiling geysers, or look into the earth’s core from the rims of active volcanos. I believe that except for a few extreme “thrill seekers” the people killed in this type of accident have no real idea of the risks they are taking no matter how many waivers they sign. This terrible tragedy should never have been allowed to happen.
10
Really nobody is looking into the earth's core, ever. That's thousands of miles down, pitch black and molten iron. People looking into a volcano filled with lava are still looking upon the earth's surface.
2
If I want to visit an active volcano, with steam vents and lava and all the rest, I'll just drive north from Ogden and visit Yellowstone.
In many ways the problem is the same -- too many people think nature is some sort of Disney Channel in 3D and interactive, but perfectly safe. But nature, of course, has other ideas.
I am told Yellowstone could blow any time, too. Of course, when it does, even little Ogden will get fried.
29
New Zealand has a system of no-fault liability insurance, which is why many adventure sports, such as bungee-jumping, got their start there.
11
If you live in an urban box, the outdoors seems a peaceable fantasy.
Those of us who grew up in the outdoors know differently. Woodpiles contain rattlesnakes; uncovered legs invite tick bites and Lyme disease. Rivers outside your house can destroy it.
The list is endless.
The urge to “be” in nature may be primal, but thinking one can “manage risk” against the lure of profit is nutty.
30
This is precisely right, Dr. Dixie. Even the peaceful summertime waters off favorite New England beaches contain, now earlier than normal, jellyfish. And seemingly fluffy cross-country ski trails have icy patches and rocks.
In the red tides of the Gulf of Mexico, deadly bacteria.
Urban types forget that there are psychotic subway predators ready to throw them into the tracks.
"They should've warned us!" indeed.
5
The dangers that the natural world presents to us are constant and inescapable, but we enjoy risking them, even when we are not consciously aware of them. Its not just the rock climbers in Yosemite, or the pilgrims to Everest who take these risks. Skiers, scuba divers, surfers, rafters, cavers, all do so routinely. Even when we simply enjoy a peaceful snowfall, a mountain meadow, or the salty sea breeze, we are unconsciously celebrating our temporary triumph over the power that will someday end our lives.
It is easy to blame the locals for greed and the authorities for lack of diligence, but they were suffering the same myopia that we all have when it comes to our daily dance with mortality.
14
The general attitude that if anything bad happens find someone to blame who has money or "profited" is going to eventually ruin much of our quality of life. How long can we expect to be able to enjoy such things as downhill skiing, amusement parks, playgrounds, swimming pools, etc? What about airlines and airplane manufacturing? Private hospitals? At some point, people have to accept that living comes with the risk of getting injured or dying.
18
@Lyle You cannot find any diving board higher than 5metres (15 feet) in the UK open to the public any longer. Back in the 1980s I used to visit swimming pools and go off 7.5 and 10metre boards as part of the public swimming session. It was fun.
The nanny-state kills all fun.
1
Very sad.
Still, I would go if I could.
11
Adventure by definition has elements of danger. Motorcycling,skiing on a double diamond slope,boating in bad weather, mountain climbing and such are all exhilarating dangerous. You fate is dependent on your good judgment every moment. With active volcanos your fate depends on the whims of nature. Visiting Yellowstone and being in the center of a 30 mile wide caldera is scary if you think about it too much.
After such tragedies the safety nannies will do their arm chair scolding and the adventurous will recalibrate their judgment for the next trip.
12
This second guessing is ridiculous. The visitors knew that they were visiting an active volcano and the very small risks involved. They were simply unlucky. If you wish to do something that has risk involved, it is totally up to you. We do not need a nanny state telling us we can't take risks.
For example, should we ban free-climbing, or perhaps even rock climbing? It clearly has significant risk (as in sudden death), and certainly the risk of free-climbing is much much greater than the risk of visiting this volcano. If you choose to ban free climbing, you would have banned one of the greatest human athletic endeavors, Alex Honnold's free solo ascent of El Capitan.
33
@Rob-Chemist That's simply an absurd argument. These visitors had no idea of the real risks and the tourist operators were selling these risks as low, which clearly they were not.
11
Most striking to me is the picture of the disabled helicopter.
Whenever a volcano in Alaska or Iceland erupts, the first thing one reads about is how aircraft have to detour around the ash cloud, because the tiny glass particles will ruin the engines.
I lived a few hundred miles east of Mt. St. Helens when it blew in 1980. I recall a "fog" of ash, which covered everything. You could follow insect tracks in the ash that led to a dead beetle. We were told not to drive our vehicles, but the city ran out of air filters anyway. Basically everything had to stop for a week until a rainfall cleared the air and compacted the ash into caked mud.
The risk of disabling one's helicopter attempting to fly into an ash field has got to much higher than the risk of suffering an eruption while visiting a volcano. If a pilot is willing to take that near certainty of risk, it hardly seems remarkable that a person would take a much smaller risk to see a volcano up close.
12
This very much reminds me of the amphibious tour boat that capsized on Table Rock Lake in Missouri last year during a massive thunderstorm. Despite having access to the most sophisticated weather information on the planet which could have warned them (plus, repeated warnings from the NTSB about the boat’s poor design), the boat operators chose the almighty dollar over common sense and pressed on with the boat tour.
Only now, after 17 deaths and some hefty lawsuits, are the boat operators taking it more seriously. Why does it always have to come to this?
11
Have been to Yellowstone natl park several times. Forest rangers tell us that most if the park is a caldera (the collapsed rim of an erupted volcano) and that it is active. ppl go to view and walk near the many thermal features. Yellowstone is routinely monitored for signs of volcanic activity. These methods include using seismographs to detect earthquakes and using GPS (Global Positioning System) to detect ground motion. The USGS has not detected any signs of activity that suggest an eruption is imminent. However this is not foolproof. Tourists feel safe in visiting.
I wonder if similar monitoring was being done at White Island?
7
Vesuvius is also an active volcano, albeit much less distinctively so than those in NZ or Hawaii. Volcanologists and urban planners worry about what will happen in Naples when/if the encroachment of buildings up the sides of Vesuvius, which is apparently becoming increasingly less stable, is threatened by a major eruption. The risk is well known and extensively documented, but people continue to build anyway. The loss of life would be in the thousands. But the risk is shrugged off — "We're special. It won't happen here."
15
@Sandy I think there are complicating factors in the construction industry around Naples - like the Mafia.
3
I am a geophysicist, and my PhD was party based on research at White Island. However you don't need a PhD to appreciate the difference between an active volcano and Disneyland. Most grade school kids can understand this. This is not the first disaster on White Island, in September 1914, an eruption killed 10 sulfur miners. Only a camp cat survived, which was found some days afterwards by the resupply ship. When you visit the crater of an active volcano, you take a real risk that the system might leave equilibrium and blow up like a bomb. Events like this are relatively infrequent on White Island, very hard to predict, and part of the attraction.
333
@Mark Harvey
Thanks for your analysis. One clarification through. The 11 sulfur miners who were killed in 1914 were not killed by an eruption. They were killed by the collapse of the crater wall that they were mining, which triggered a lahar.
32
Are you saying that people signed up with their kids for the thrill of surviving an eruption? I doubt it. It’s like saying that we travel on airplanes because of the risk it might crash.
15
@Mark Harvey
"When you visit the crater of an active volcano, you take a real risk that the system might leave equilibrium and blow up like a bomb." Exactly. Your bomb analogy hits the nail right on the head. Barring slips and falls and such other mishaps, visiting a volcano like this is safe, until it's suddenly not. I'm not sure that anyone is to blame for what happened. People were (hopefully) informed of the risk before deciding to visit the island.
12
This is 20/20 hindsight. Since the volcano did erupt, the scientists were right, and nobody should have been able to visit it up close. If it had not erupted, and nobody could visit, the authorities would be seen as unnecessarily cautious. Plenty of people live dangerously close to active volcanoes. The great city of Naples is built on one. Predicting the timing and force of an eruption is not an exact science. Just ask the Icelanders.
24
Nature is truly magnificent and to visit a volcano is probably one of the most awesome experiences that generates respect and wonder. Safety however is number one. So sorry for this loss of life...
7
I truly think and possibly I’m mistaken, that too many people know nothing about nature. Many seem to believe that visiting volcanos and parks is like going to Disneyland. It's amazing to me how little so many people understand that Mother Nature can be deadly.
But then, I was raised by parents who grew up on farms during the depression and understood nature, its glories and its dangers. I was taught by the age of 8 or 9 I believe, to watch out for rattlesnakes because we had them in the area we lived in. While growing up my dad had killed several that had come too close to our house.
As a result of this training as a child, I know what to do while hiking, and thank goodness because I managed to stop my husband just before he stepped on a rattlesnake while we were hiking. The point of my comments is that many people have never had the experience of being out in nature and how to take care of themselves.
During the depression my dad spent time both with his older brother who took people camping there in the 20’s and early 30’s, and in a CCC camp. He learned how to scare off bears, etc. The 3 of us learned a lot from both of our parents, but that lore is disappearing.
Maybe we should add learning about nature to the curriculum in schools.
36
@Wolf201 With respect ... dealing with bears and rattlesnakes is hardly equivalent to dealing with an erupting volcano. The latter is overwhelming, and the only way to 'deal' with it is to never go near it in the first place.
6
@Wolf201 , by the way, how were the bears scared off?
2
Nature does what it will do: Tsunamis, tornadoes, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, hurricanes--the list goes on. Experience it up close at your own risk; prepare for it if you live nearby the hazard.
11
The older I get, the more I really love my living room.
Whether it's touring an active volcano site, or hiking where bears and even mountain lions could conceivably appear out of nowhere, or visiting countries with unstable governments, I am losing my appeal for "experiences" that are dangerous.
65
Getting into your car and driving somewhere is a potentially dangerous experience. Statistics show it. But you do it because you’re driving to something that, ultimately, you believe will contribute to your life. Same with these “adrenaline” experiences. I visited White Island last year and I can tell you that it wasn’t really an “adrenaline rush” that I experienced; rather, it was me being in a constant state of awe of nature; it was puzzling beautiful. I knew my risks. And I knew if I died that I died experiencing something greater than me. Heck, if you’re living in California you’re experiencing risk all the time with wild fires and earthquakes. But people stay in their living rooms there and, well, we are all different.
Offering a different perspective on this, but I wish you a beautiful life and a happy belated birthday.
2
Having visited and worked in NZ, Kiwi culture seems less risk adverse than the USA. For example, many playgrounds have small Zip Lines for children to play on (and fall off of). They're called Flying Foxes. Flying Foxes are not to be found in risk adverse and litigious USA. We've systematically removed risk from our playgrounds. No more monkey bars, slides, see saws, and even swings are on their way out.
On top of that, people often feel invulnerable on vacation and take bigger risks. That's part of the fun.
12
@Paul Exactly my thoughts. I worked in NZ for four months and even then was struck by the fact that if you want to do something that thrills you but is dangerous, you can do it. I was talking to a visitor there who was 80 and grew up in California said that the country was like what California was like in the 1940s and 50s. One day I wanted to get from Akatarawa forest to the coast and a local gave me two options; the shorter one cut through the mountains and saved me a lot of time. I took that one and took note there were no guard rails at the curves at any point. It got my attention and I kept my hands at 10 and 2 for that entire section. It's a country that forces you to take responsibility for yourself....and its perfect.
9
@Paul
Actually in our city of Idaho Falls our Parks and Rec Dept just installed a short zip line. In the past five months no injuries...the zip line is over a thick bed of wood chips.
3
"But it’s not clear whether the company or government officials did enough to protect visitors..."
If you're going on an active volcano, you don't need protection. You need a brief, succinct warning that says "you do realize this could explode, much like volcanos have done for 5 billion years?" Going onto a volcano is identical to storm chasing: a thrill, with associated danger.
48
Hopefully this will be a learning experience for New Zealand and the tour operators and they will be more responsible in estimating risk.
It is quite difficult for ordinary people to estimate risks since other sites which might be thought of as similar ( going by the comments) might have different levels of risk.
While there are comparisons to Yellowstone, the latter is quite safe as far as volcanism is concerned - the last lava flow was 70000 yrs ago and it is heavily monitored. Similarly, Hawaiian volcanoes are again heavily monitored and tend not to be explosive ( no tourist lost their lives in the recent eruption of Kilauea). Of course, there is the more complicated question of why people are allowed to live in potential areas where lava could flow ( most of the big island) or even Auckland which essentially sits atop a volcanic field.
4
Calculations often require balancing certain benefits against uncertain risk. Thus the need for a neutral authority.
4
When will the adrenaline rush people find something safer to do to excite them. Music excites me and exercise on my indoor bike and i just celebrated my 66th bday on Thanksgiving day. You should try that and live to be a ripe older age.
11
@D.j.j.k. not everyone wants to live to an old age.
8
NY Times: Please look into the current liability laws in New Zealand. When we visited about 20 years ago, cases that would have yielded multi million $ settlements in the US were settled for a few thousand $ there.
10
Law is practiced differently everywhere. The US is a culture of ambulance chasers and people getting sued for a plethora of things. NZ isn’t like that. “I’m calling my lawyer!” coming from one civilians mouth to another in the middle of a beautiful spring day isn’t exactly part of the culture there as it is here.
8
New Zealand tort reform strikes again.
2
My son has been traveling around New Zealand for the last month, heading for the volcano isle of Bali next, prompting me to do some Googling. The city of Auckland NZ alone has 53 volcanoes. I was surprised to read that the US is rated with the highest number of volcanoes, 173, mostly in Alaska and the Pacific NW.
Mother Nature is a magnificent thing, and should be treated with respect, and caution.
13
We visited White Island in 2006 and were very aware that there is a risk associated with visiting an active volcano. At the time we talked about how we wouldn't want to work as a tour guide because they were likely to be on site the day that an accident happened. At no time were we told that there was no risk, in fact the precautions that were taken during the visit made us more aware of the risks. It was a once in a lifetime visit and we were lucky. Our thoughts go out to those visitors who were not as lucky as we were.
54
exactly. they even outline on the release form you sign before boarding all of these things. if anything, always constantly reminded how much of a risk this is.
6
I was standing on the rim of the White Island crater with my wife 4 weeks ago, and I can tell you that the tour operator goes to great lengths to tell everyone that this is an active volcano that can and does erupt. The tour operator is very responsible, pro-active for everyone's safety, and educates everyone about the risks.
Everyone on the tour knows it is a high risk activity, and like any high risk activity (bungee jumping, skydiving, mountain climbing, off piste skiing, etc) that you knowingly choose to do, you can't blame others when something goes wrong.
In our litigious US society we always want to blame someone else and sue them; other societies around the world have more of a sense of personal responsibility.
Volcanos by their nature are unpredictable, even with all our modern expertise. Closing the island while it is unstable is sensible, but it would be a shame if the lawyers shut down the island forever.
198
@Clive There is risk that can be managed to some degree and then there is risk which cannot be managed at all and this accident is in that category. When an active volcano will decide to actually erupt is completely unpredictable and there is no mitigating the danger to peoples that are present at that moment. All of the other activities you mention can have their risk managed to some degree. So if you’re free soloing there’s inherent unmanageable risk but climbing with rope and protection manages the risk. I backcountry ski so there is risk of avalanches but that risk can be managed by when and where one chooses to ski and by behavior. I’m not necessarily advocating that no one should be allowed to peer into an active volcano but I am certain that most of the people on theses tours don’t fully appreciate the risk and it’s inherent unmanageability.
23
You can never fully mitigate avy risk and you know that - I’m from the same part of the country as you, and I suspect we both know people who were experts in backcountry skills and still lost their lives on a bad day out. Similar to climbing, sometimes you have to run it out to get that next hold. Sometimes you’re looking down on some sketchy trad piece that you know won’t hold the fall. If you can’t deal with the risk of life, then move east and work in a foam padded cubicle all day - no one gets out of this life alive!
15
@Todd
“... am certain that most of the people on theses tours don’t fully appreciate the risk and it’s inherent unmanageability.”
Exactly. Else, why would children be allowed? I really doubt that people, even Kiwis, think they’re *literally* risking their lives or especially that of their kids.
15
The risks of an active volcano should be explained to every adult. No kids allowed. (If you're ok with maybe getting killed, go for it but don't include your children.)
Sign the paper and go visit the volcano.
I visited Egypt years ago and went into tombs that stank horribly of 20th century urine and very ancient mold, and went into very tight spaces where we had to crawl. I was young then and would do almost anything. I did have the sense not to try to climb the Great Pyramid.
However I fought lung infections for years afterwards. Was it worth it? Yes.
Would I visit an active volcano. No.
I'm not crazy.
8
There s no place remote enough or too dangerous for tourists to find it.
2
Just curious, the writers make no mention of the damaged helicopter shown in the story. Was it part of the tour groups?Researchers? Rescuers?
9
So, the old gal is smoking, rumbling, puffing, quaking, and generally in a foul mood.
But, these "fun and thrill seekers" (and as I've said before it's always the "fun" that gets you into trouble) decided it was a good idea to go up and have a look.
Yes, sounds perfectly logical.
11
A life lived where every decision was perfectly logical...sounds fun!
4
@Bryce Ross
Yes, it is fun. And its long
2
@Bryce Ross
Fate is fluid, but destiny is in your own hands.
And, as it wills, fate strikes down.
The moral of the story, as always, is don't tempt fate. Unless you actually believe that people love dying while they're doing what they love.
2
I've found that some travelers treat the world as if it's a big Disney Land. White Island! Another selfie opportunity!
I recently visited the Grand Canyon and watched as some people went right to the edge and turned around to take pictures. Apparently, a few people have fallen into the canyon this way. Natural selection?
102
To me the key paragraph of the article: GeoNet, the agency that monitors geological activity in New Zealand, had reported increased activity at the volcano for several weeks, raising the warning level to 2 out of 5, while maintaining that the island was still safe for visitors.
While I love top notch investigative reporting, as exemplified by the NYT, look no further. GeoNet raised the warning level from a 1 to a 2, saying the island was still safe to visit. Let’s not rail against greedy, profit hunting tourism outfits, or mankind’s stupidity in the face of nature’s overwhelming power, hardcore legitimate scientists made a mistake. The results were horrific but that’s what happened. Nobody to blame or point a finger at, even GeoNet.
34
@Ron According to BBC, the warning level was raised to a 4 two weeks ago. That probably should have raised some caution by tour operators. Having visited a couple other volcanoes (Chile and Nicaragua), the attractions of hiking up powdery sand (and hiking down) and being in a sulfurous environment really takes away from the attractiveness of doing it again or suggesting it to others.
2
When I travel, I like being in places where you can do what you want, and if you fall off a cliff or burn in a volcano, well, too bad. I have never been an adrenaline junkie, and at 65, never will be - it's not about adrenaline. When I approach a cliff and find a fence and a bunch of "DANGER" signs, it ruins the experience and is the reason we'll venture off the beaten track to get away from the crowds and fences. Sometimes it's an hour or two walk/hike, but the destination is worth it and we get a great walk in.
We want to visit NZ next winter because of it's beauty and also because of the people and their attitude towards life. We'll probably *ahem* skip the volcano.
I'm curious if any Kiwi's have something to say about this.
4
Anyone heard of Yellowstone? We call it a park, but it is actually a "super volcano" and it will erupt again someday. We routinely fly to Hawaii to visit the aptly named "Volcanoes Natonal Park" which erupted in 2018 and destroyed 700 homes.
Taking chances that nothing seismic will happen to you? San Andreas fault ring a bell? San Francisco earthquake?
Built your home on a flood plain? Don't worry. What is the chance of a 100 year flood in your lifetime? Ask those people in Houston and New Orleans.
And then there's global warming with melting icecaps, rising seas, more frequent and more powerful tropical storms, and say bye bye to coral reefs, barrier islands, and Southern Florida.
Have a nice day!
39
Really? Are people actually going to claim now that they do not know that active volcanos are dangerous? Really?
I’ve climbed active volcanos. If I die on one it will be my fault and mine alone.
67
@Flora Waples
...but I hope you didn't take a child along like the tourists did on that island?
1
Bought from New Zealand govt or the previous owner. The island is part of New Zealand.
Unfortunately there are many people/groups who want less regulation for everything (especially with private zones), but then when an accident happens it's: Where was the government? What happened to the "health and safety regulations"?
15
It’s a little bit like Mount Everest: people want to do it so they can say they did it, and by “say”, I mean posting about it to thousands of strangers on social media. It’s part of the self-centeredness that comes with Selfie Culture. In the old days it would have been enough to look at that volcano from afar. Now people have to take a selfie right in front of it or it doesn’t count. Remember the people who stood in front of bisons, because, “look at me, I’m practically touching a bison!” and were attacked and nearly killed? Same concept.
25
Oh, for Pete's sake. Why are tourists permitted to peer over the edge of the Grand Canyon, ride to the bottom on a mule, travel to space, or climb Mount Fuji? Why are people allowed to ride bicycles in traffic? Why do people build homes on the coast or in earthquake zones? For every person killed in this incident, millions have enjoyed the island experience. Life has risks. The government doesn't need to control everything.
57
Three years ago we had an option to take a White Island tour on our Australia/New Zealand cruise, which we declined. As I remember the tour description, it was rated “strenuous“ and I believe it said you were given an oxygen mask because of the extreme amounts of sulfur in the air and that it would be very hot. None of this sounded appealing, although the idea of being on the volcano was pretty cool. What bothers me the most is that probably the biggest reason we didn’t do the tour was the half-hour boat ride and “rough waters“ and I knew that would make me seasick. I don’t remember any description stating that the volcano could erupt at any time; however all cruise excursions require that you sign a disclaimer not holding the cruise line liable for any problems. My heart goes out to the people who were trapped on the island. Our cruise down in that area was one of the nicest ones we’ve had, people in both countries were exceptional.
5
greed is certainly a factor here, but people! c'mon: do your own research! as an active, yet cautious traveler I would never let a travel company (or fellow traveler, etc.) tell me when it was safe to do something that had known risks.
8
New Zealand's liability laws are quite different from those of the United States. That's why they could pioneer things like bungee jumping. There may not be hundred million dollar law suits rising out of this.
It's really sad that this happened. There was clearly folly in allowing tourists to visit the island.
3
While it is tragic, the reaction to this seems out of proportion in today's seeming need for more and more dramatic things to experience in life. Bungie jumping. Parachuting. Scaling Mt. Everest.
The questionable thing, of course, is whether or not the risk associated with taking the tour was properly discussed with those who chose to do so.
We can close Mt. Hood to climbers based on the Park Service and others who warn of avalanches and treacherous conditions, but those who thumb their noses at danger sneak around and go anyway.
For those trusting that a tour agency wouldn't put a casual tourist (and indeed the temptation to see such a rare wonder would be great) in any significant danger, it is a violation of trust.
2
Why were tour guides allowed to take children onto an active volcano? That's an easy question to answer, because they made money doing it.
The real question is why would a parent take their child onto an active volcano?
62
I am sure the parents signed waivers and eagerly brought their children to the natural wonder. The only liable here is on the adults who signed away their rights to complain. I am sure many children have gone in the past and been fine. Not to be cold but it is nature. You can’t control it. Nor can you sue someone else because it happened.
7
@Mary clay boland
It's child abuse because the child has no say and no way to assess the risk.
What sort of parent would put their children under such risk? It would be the same as telling them to eat whatever mushrooms they find on a forest floor..... no need to check them.....
3
Victims’ families cannot sue the volcano for their deaths/injuries.
But the tour operators and owners of the island who profited from taking people to the island should certainly be fair game.
If the risks inherent in the visits were not made absolutely clear and liability for potential consequences accepted by the visitors, then the those who profited from delivering people to the island certainly DO have a liability.
@PeterW Not in NZ. NZ has an entity called the ACC. Accident Compensation Corporation. In NZ you cannot sue for injury against anyone. I can imagine US lawyers are circling to circumvent that by bringing suits against whomever touted the tour on Ovation of the Seas (not NZ owned)
13
@PeterW Humans are on a very fast time line. Nature isn't. We are told that Yellowstone National park sits above a massive magma bubble which will, sometime, burst forth again. Maybe in a 1/2 million or 2 million years. Seems safe enough to go.
We are used to hearing travel conditions reported and thinking that as good as the predictions are we can decide to brave the roads or try to get to the airport. A few hours delay is a realistic event. To think that we should have closed Mt. St. Helens for a few hundred years while it settled down is unrealistic considering our short lifespans.
4
White Island was on my list.
I wonder if people were adequately warned.
Some volcanoes are more predictable than others, with harmonic tremors and uptick in certain gases coming before eruption.
If a volcano is not so predictable, then best to stay away.
Nature’s most beautiful places are often shaped by its most destructive forces.
4
I'd hope that people touring the island were aware of and accepted the risk. Indeed I'd guess that the risk was part of the attraction for some visitors. This is similar to skier fatalities from avalanches. They occur every winter in the US and around the world, mostly in the back country (out of ski area boundaries). People are typically aware of the risk and are willing to take it.
11
Its very simple. People enjoy risk. Active volcanoes are extremely risky places, therefore people seek them out. Same for bungee jumping, hanggliding, and so on. The risk often materializes, so people get hurt or die. There is no problem or puzzle here. The risk, the acute danger, is an integral part of the attraction.
Personally, I like it that genuinely risky activities exist, some of which I engage in myself. They enhance my feeling of being alive, and they expand my freedom. The world would be poorer if we regulated them out of existence.
10
Where there is responsibility, then there is authority to dictate and freedom is lost.
Adults should be free to visit regardless how dangerous. But when highly elevated risk is determined to be present, then those who visit should be notified that they are assuming the risk and that there will be no efforts to save them from the anticipated hazard.
4
Since Halema’uma’u crater on Kilauea volcano in Hawai’i imploded and was blocked by ash and rocks last year, an acidic groundwater-fed lake has been growing in the crater. Sitting above a pool of magma that is ‘recharging’ this very active volcano. The potential for a steam-driven blast seems very real and entirely unpredictable. I am sure the NPS volcanologists are doing their best to monitor the situation, but people do need to be aware.
10
Why visit White Island? Why do people skydive? Bungee? Swim with sharks? Those who choose to participate in thrill seeking must accept the responsibility for their safety.
103
I visited an active volcano in Guatemala when I was very young. It erupted a few years later. I didn’t know then it was risky. Governments are supposed to warn us of the risks. One person or family cannot hire geologists to learn how dangerous the volcano is. That’s why we have a government. So that the studies are conducted and we can then make informed decisions.
32
@Estelle
The reporters are presenting the situation as a demand for government responsibility and government police power restriction on movement, the public's right to travel. They are NOT limiting their demand to warnings.
Warnings are good and should be made by a responsible government. But not police power restriction of movement. The government should warn that travelers are assuming the risk and efforts to save them will not occur if the anticipated danger materializes.
4
@Dave k ever been skydiving? They require you to sign a waiver, one place required a video recorded waiver, even though I was a very experienced skydiver.
3
Ditto all the above comments. In addition: how is it that someone/people can “own” an island? Purchased with what? From whom?
9
@Jean I guess owning an island was done the same way people thought it was right to own humans for generations. Where there’s a will there’s a way.
3
@Jean There are lots of private islands. Many in the US, so just ask a few of the high end realtors about one and they'll be happy to take your application.
Several gorgeous places exist in the St. Laurence seaway, too. This is not uncommon.
8
People own islands all over. My family owned an island off of New York when I was growing up. It was part of New York State. So what?
8
The volcanologist said it best, "we need to have more respect for nature." Not every natural wonder is meant as a human playground.
134
It's like if you have to ask then you certainly don't know why. Thrill tourism.
6
Not everyone wants safe, sanitized Disney fun. I know, if I was on the cruise, that is the shore excursion I would do.
People do all sorts of dangerous things. Parachute jumping, pet wild life that can take your head off with one swipe of a hoof or paw.
I don't blame the people, I blame the tour operators who went *meh* getting the warnings.
Life is a risk. I could drive my car or cross the street today and get snuffed out. Those odds are better than being killed by a volcano erupting.
19
Tour operators and the government, which has a responsibility to regulate, inform and keep us safe.
2
One must ask people who partake in these so called adventure tours: What are you thinking? Why some people choose to ignore obvious danger signals, like those who take an "adventure tour" to swim with sharks, is beyond logic. I guess Darwinism is alive and well.
15
Difference between living and merely existing.
5
Consequences are real and in some cases have lasting effects, like putting Trump or Obama in the White House or getting a tattoo.
6
@Milton & Rose Friedman (dec.) I think you just meant to say putting Trump in the White House.
8
If you want to vacation at a place where the fun is regulated out of everything, you don't need to go all the way to NZ - just stay here in the USA where we already allow insurance companies and lawyers to tell us what we can and can't do.
28
@Dave
We have lawyers and insurance companies telling us what we can and can't do because we sue McDonalds when we spill hot coffee in our laps. We sue when a child chokes on a grocery bag we leave out. We sue when we fall off a scooter at 20 mph.
We have our selves to blame. Just like the unfortunates on White Island.
1
When Money talks, Safety walks.
13
This reminds me of Russian roulette. Reasonable odds that you may not survive. People need to take responsibility for their choices.
9
The dead and injured here have taken responsibility for their choices.
5
This whole premise is ridiculous. Why were they ‘allowed’ to do something? Because that’s what ‘freedom’ means! Allow people to take risks and responsibility for their own lives. Yes, that means that sometimes people make the wrong choice. It was an active volcano and everyone there knew there was a risk to be on it. There is nobody to blame because a volcanic eruptions are natural disasters.
70
@Andy I’m thinking vacationers assumed they would not be offered a trip to a volcano that had a good chance of killing them. I bet that no where in the description of the tour did it say that the volcano could have a massive eruption at any moment. They placed their faith in the cruise line that they would not imperil their lives.
10
Were people taking the tour informed that geologists had been rising the risk from 2 to 5? Freedom is making informed decisions. Informed.
13
@Estelle,
They raised the warning level to "2" from "1" out of five. I'm thinking that a "5" would be the presence of great gouts of lava and pyroclastic flows.
"GeoNet, the agency that monitors geological activity in New Zealand, had reported increased activity at the volcano for several weeks, raising the warning level to 2 out of 5, while maintaining that the island was still safe for visitors."
4
The precise moment of a volcanic eruption, like the birth of a baby, cannot be predicted. But volcanoes have a rough “due-date” too and everyone knew White Island had entered a very dangerous phase. Yet, fear of losing income suppressed this information from customers. Crippling disasters have a root cause and the responsible parties now know theirs - greed.
58
@rp
"everyone knew White Island had entered a very dangerous phase"
Not at all. As you stated, predictions of volcanic activity are spurious, at best. The actual activity that caused this loss of life may not even have been an actual eruption, but a "cough" that cleared the way for the volcano to resume its usual level for many years.
"Dangerous" may it be, there are many other human activities just as dangerous.
8
@rp agreed! but I also know that as a cautious, yet active traveler myself I would have researched the safety and any warnings. pay attention everyone!!
2
Ironically, cruise ship owners always tell you to go on approved tours by the cruise company and not free lancers.
One of the reasons is to be assured of not getting ripped off and guarantee return to the ship.
It seemed the latter didn't matter home to the poor victims.
Blame can be placed all around from the tour operation to the cruise ship to people who would go on potentially dangerous trips like this.
11
@Paul the cruise ship companies take their cut from the tour operators, that is why they promote them. A friend had a store in STX and was told by a cruise ship official that if he didn’t give them a payment they would tell passengers to avoid his store. Cruise industry extortion.
4
@Paulie Agreed. I would not mind if cruise sponsored tours were competitive with free lancers but sometimes they are two to three times more expensive.
To get on the ship can be dirt cheap but they nail you with booze, gambling and shore excursions big time.
1
It is too tempting to attack private parties as being careless, and lawyers always circling love a prominent private party to blame, but really government is the prime culprit. Only the government has the resources and power to monitor and regulate safety issues of this scale. It is more than reasonable for private parties to look to government for a go or no-go. That is why the criminal investigation was cancelled.
4
@wnhoke
In New Zealand you can't sue for personal injury. (Seriously!) However, operators of the cruise ship aren't NZ based so guests from that ship may have avenues outside of NZ.
7
As I noted on another thread, almost half a century ago friends and I were on Mount Etna half a day before it exploded. Sometimes these things do happen.
The next time I visited Etna, the Jeep drove along the now-flowery lava path I had seen rolling down in flames.
Stop trying to find a deep pocket to sue.
229
@B. I too have enjoyed the surreal world at the top of Etna. It's hard to describe the piercing cold of a 50 mph wind blowing at your back while convinced that if you move even an inch closer to the fumarole in front of you that you will burst into flames. I would return in a heartbeat.
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@B.
apparently these tourists were given the strong impression----if not actually lied to about the safety of the visit.
THAT should matter.
Children were allowed to visit.....
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@Thomas Payne I too visited Etna. In September, 1984. Beautiful! Dramatic! A guide told me I was too close. I moved back a few feet. Later I noticed that my Vibram soles had slightly melted.
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Terrifying for all involved -- and painful for the families who lost their family members and the ones injured -- may all good be with them.
There is always a risk involved when people go out for nature adventures. Things happen. Best to assess risks.
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We were there 3 years ago and were shown all the monitors to show any increase in activity. If there were changes, perhaps they should have heeded those warnings. That being said, there is danger in everything we do. Vacationers go scuba diving, get close to wild animals on safari, take tours on foreign mountain highways or even ride bicycles in NYC. It’s called living and is not without risk.
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@Philip I could go for most of those, but not riding a bicycle in NYC. My tolerance for risk has limits (perhaps because that is a risk I understand).
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Today seems nearly everyone from just about every nation expects their Army, Navy, and Air Force to come to the rescue and extricate them from the result of their irresponsible folly. Doesn't matter what they are doing or where they are doing it. Skiing off-trail, climbing peaks beyond their competence, or taking selfies a few feet from an active volcano.
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@Sparks On our visit to the Grand Canyon last year we routinely saw parents tell their kids to climb behind the "keep out" signs to get "better" pictures. Its ridiculous.
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@Sparks My cellphone app will protect me from my own stupidity & careless behavior. If I do experience some adverse effects, then the taxpayers will fund my rescue.
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"And why, as of Tuesday, were there no clear answers to who is ultimately accountable for ensuring visitors’ safety: the family that owns the remote island, or the government charged with enforcing health and safety regulations?"
There's a clear answer to everyone except nannies. You nannies can cower on your sofas and leave us skydivers, volcano-watchers, and rock climbers alone, ok? But feel free to wring your hands when we get hurt or killed.
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Moreover, the sentence should read "no clear answers to whom is ultimately accountable. . ."
I agree. But I also think when people knowingly take these risks, they should pay their own rescue costs.
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@Steve M
I think the point being is this was touted as a very benign day trip - get off the ship - do something. These people weren't amped up for a huge risk taking death defying (death barely inescapable if things go wrong tour). And realistically. NO ONE considered that.
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God bless these unsuspecting victims.
I travel a lot - been to some 114 countries including New Zealand - but not to this island.
In Zimbabwe, I rode the rapids on the Zambezi which can be life threatening. A long story, but I broke my ribs.
Adventure travel has risks and this eruption, I suspect, no one thought it will happen.
If these volcanologists were there a decade back with gases bubbling thru but no eruption - how can one fault this tour operator.
Luckily, it did not happen in America where we would have mammoth lawsuits already filed.
A life not lived to a full extent is a life thrown away.
We all learn but first let's tend to the victims first before fixing blame.
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“a life not lived to full extent is a life thrown away” the cliches are great - unfortunately, the first responders sent into danger for rescues and necessary doctors/nurses/hospitals/insurance companies don’t have time or money for these acts of self indulgence.
How many volcano tourists ended up in hospitals with thousands of dollars in care now required ? This is just stupid.
I’m reminded of the tourists that visit countries ruled by dictators, then get into trouble and expect US govt to get them out - so tired of imbecile tourists refusing to take responsibility for their own actions - including payment when things go wrong.
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For most of recorded history, humans were smart enough not to walk around the inside of an active volcano.
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@Nick Best comment.
this is not about lawyers and freedom. it's about common sense.
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@Nick, Really? For all of human history, have humans not been explorers and risk takers? If what you are saying is true, humanity would still consist of only a small tribe in central Africa.
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@Nick Historians believe that Sicily's Mount Etna has taken over a million lives over the centuries.
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“ You’re walking into this enclosed amphitheater, onto the floor of a very active volcano where there are steaming gas vents, where there are crater lakes filled with hot water close to boiling temperatures.” Those words apply to the whole of Yellowstone National Park except, for now, for the word “active”. But do we know whether there will be a warning when it eventually blows?
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Exactly. I was thinking of Yellowstone when I read the article but checked the comments first to see if anyone else had made that connection. There’s been a significant uptick in activity in Yellowstone recently; how do we know that it isn’t going to erupt soon? And given what a tourist attraction it is and a moneymaker, can we trust the powers that be to play it safe?
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@Greenie It appears that officials in Yellowstone are very pro-active when it comes to safety. I remember some years ago, that they closed the park, and evacuated several towns when the temperatures of the hot springs and geysers rose by ten degrees. They closed the park as recently as February 2019 because of a fissure in a rock very close to the volcano. I actually thought that the whole caldera was the volcano, but I guess there are focal points within it.
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@Steve My wife and I visited Yellowstone several years ago and were quite impressed with the level of warning signs etc. that informed visitors that the area is geologically "active". I spoke with a Park Service geologist who was giving a talk and she commented that the park is subject to intense surveillance for the purpose of detecting any uptick in activity that might indicate a potentially dangerous situation. One key indicator - watch the animals since they seem to sense disturbances well before human take notice.
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There are many accessible inactive volcanic cones available for inspection, with all the beauty and minimal risk. The appeal of active volcanic-like activity can be had at hot springs and geysers. The point of the tours of White Island seems to have been its accessibility to the same desirable features in one place with little effort. The danger was not a highlight.
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Any tour that requires a gas mask isn't something I would sign up to take.
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@Jenna That was my first thought when I read the description of the tour.
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New Zealand is the world capital of risky activity. Every object taller than 20 feet in the entire country has a bungee cord attached to it. Anyone asking ‘how could they let people get so close to an active volcano?” has obviously never been there.
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@Richard I have a 2-week trip planned for NZ for the upcoming holiday. You are absolutely right; people go there for its bungees, white water rafting, rolling zorbs, breath-taking boat rides, and climbing mountains with glaciers. NZ is an adventurer's paradise. I'm sad for those affected by this eruption, but I'd rather die experiencing the (sometime surprising) thrills life offers than live sitting around getting old.
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@Paul from Cincinnati what about suffering through major skin burns? You might not die, but be depressingly maimed.
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@Paul from Cincinnati
Fine, just don't take minor children with you.
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Seriously, folks, if you need to get an up-close and personal look at a volcano, watch a Nat’l. Geographic video. Ditto sharks and other large predators.
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I learned and got certified in scuba diving in 2015 and my first diving trip was to Cozumel. In my very first immersion, the guide signals there is a shark and points to it. I had NO IDEA there were sharks there. I was scared, but the shark ignored us and went on on his way. Apparently those are friendly sharks, to the point that noone in my school or on the tour ever mentioned it, and there was no info about it on the webpage where I read all reviews before hiring the scuba operator.
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Or at least take personal responsibility and don’t sue if you get hurt!
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The ancients understood and deeply respected the forces of nature a thousand times more than the average modern human being.
They had to--for daily survival.
Most "advanced" civilizations operate in a state of constant denial about these forces, hence the shock and tragedy when the forces take over as they inevitably do.
If we could get back to the level of respect for the natural world that our forbears held, we would all be a lot better off.
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They also tended olive groves on those volcanic slopes because of the quality of the soil.
In fact, people and volcanoes have always lived in close proximity.
Ask Pliny.
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@Jan They went to war and died of starvation or violence often before 40. I'll take the modern days, thanks.
What a wonderfully improbable way to go out!
Some might say hiking on an active volcano is unwise, but we were never a very forward-looking species... I'm beginning to regret my '2019 forever' tattoo...
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@Justin Sigman
I wonder if the folks with the skin burned off their faces are wishing that they would have just “go[ne] out” in that “wonderfully improbable way”.
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@Tumor boy
Allow me to say all the wrong things so you can virtuously explain what I should have said. So long as we're all comfortable with being social media stereotypes, its the least I can do!
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@Tumor boy
If that loud, showy exhale doesn’t get the attention you want, it just means you weren’t ready.
Allow me to say all the wrong things so you can virtuously explain what I should have said. So long as we're all comfortable with being social media stereotypes, its the least I can do!
I lived in New Zealand for a year. Unlike here, people there are quite reasonable and pragmatic. Kiwis understand that certain individual actions may potentially have consequences. Their inclination is not to leap to litigation or significant government intervention. New Zealand is a beautiful country. Some of the volcanoes, mountains and other natural terrain maybe dangerous. You have to accept some risk involved in order to explore some of these beautiful places. To expect the government or litigation to protect every individual is unreasonable.
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@MS It's a LIVE VOLCANO. No part of that phrase is in any way "safe." Telling people to stay away from a live volcano is in no way "unreasonable."
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@MS I agree with you completely. Being issued helmets and gas masks was a clue there was the possibility of great danger even if tour operators and the ship line did not mention the risks (which apparently were also available to know
if people did some research prior to the trip). People who opted to go to the island are responsible for their own actions. It is totally unreasonable for the government or litigation to protect every individual. Are people willing to give up their freedom by giving government tight control of everything? I am not.
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I agree. I believe in freedom and I don’t want to government prohibiting anything. I do want accurate information and warnings to make my own informed decisions.
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This is another example of mankind’s hubris. We are not that special.
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have compassion for the victims and their families
and do a thorough investigation into the owners of the island who allowed tourism, the state agency allowing it, and the companies who sold such tourism to the actual tourists
allowing children into such a space
mind boggling
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Very unfortunate and sad as these deaths are, this is an extraordinary event. Yet it gets more coverage than the deaths that Trump continues to allow by not following the Australian and more recently New Zealand example of gun control. If so many legislators and would-be legislators were not funded by the NRA, the US would be a much safer country.
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@MaccaUS This is a classic nonseqitur. But you did manage to inject 'Trump' into the coversation, so there's that.
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If you’re peeking at molten lava, you are rolling the dice. Tour companies should be explicit about the risk and absolutely not sell tickets to children or elderly who are likely to require additional help if there’s disaster.
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@Angelica Responsibility is ultimately on the parents of the children, not the tour company. Adults are able to make their own decisions. I've read comments from other persons who have been on these tours. The risks are made very clear and waivers are signed. You are correct in saying that these people rolled the dice. They rolled and they lost.
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Sorry, but anyone who sets foot on an active volcano clearly knows they're playing Russian roulette. In fact, that's part of the appeal.
So, instead of blaming authorities for "allowing" visitors to the island, why not blame the individuals themselves? At what point should common sense take over and people take responsibility for their own lives?
I'd say the moment they decide to walk around and explore an active volcano.
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Thank you, common sense appears to be in short supply every where in the world today.
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@JOHNNY CANUCK I think that all those tourists simply relied on assumption that if it is approved by authorities it must be safe. Would you expect such a mass venue to be deadly risky? They surely asked tour guides and everyone about its safety.
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@JOHNNY CANUCK
It is horribly tragic and yet my first thought was just as you say. Where was the common sense? It is another example of total disregard for the natural balance of the planet we are lucky enough to inhabit and it is a very peculiar activity for a "cruise vacation". I believe cruise companies actually have zero regard for nature and I'm saddened by their descriptions of the sights they allow cruisers to "explore" (such as remote wildlife habitats and disappearing "glorious glaciers"). It is repugnant, especially considering the stress cruise ships put on the environment.
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That tourists can go to an area where even volcanologists or geologists would take extraordinary precautions before visiting is a scandal. In Europe (Italy especially) this would never be permitted.
What is going on with the New Zealand authorities?
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@CL The conventions and known risks will become clearer after the NZ inquiry announced today arrives at its conclusions. I heard one report say that a 'level 2' alert (as given) didn't normally stop tours, but 'level 3' alert (not given) did. The explosion was hard to predict - maybe impossible - which is hard for the modern mind to accept.
Everything is 'obvious' with 20:20 hindsight and it's clear scientists went there regularly. So do we stop such tours? Do we stop scientists going? Do we stop people driving on the roads? Apparently more than 100 people die on the roads each day in the USA.
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@Saddened observer
I went to White Island thirty years ago and never gave a thought about any risk. Was a day jaunt. Then I lived in Christchurch where there were zero expectations of earthquakes. (I had lived in Wellington where earthquake drills were the norm for the occasional small shakes). Due to go back to NZ for Xmas (from Australia) and now all I can think of is the Tangawhai disaster where a lahar from Ruapehu volcano wiped out train tracks and train plummeted into river killing 151. (1953) Then Mount Erebus disaster when 237 killed when an Air NZ plane crashed into that volcano. NZ has a long history of volcano disasters, earthquakes, building fires, earthquakes and massacres (Chch 2018 not the first)
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It's funny you mention people driving on roads. The advent of autonomous driving technology will virtually eliminate road fatalities. This is what humans are generally good at, problem solving. Of course, just as many humans are not very good at critical thought, assessing risk, or second guessing flashy tourist promotions promising killer selfies.
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