Mendacity! Tennessee Williams's word from "A Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" pops into mind.
Living in mendacity is an apt description of America under the reign of Donald Trump. His cult followers across the land, from mega churches to political rallies, embrace fictional myths pumped out nonstop and unchecked, gleefully rebroadcasted for the entertainment of the masses. What a show.
2
We must defend truth.
We might have to fight for it.
We might start by using it more in our world view.
Cynicism is the enemy of truthful expression as it tends to devalue it.
If tried in a “ normal” court of law, Trump wouldn’t stand a chance. It’s tragically pathetic that Trump flaunts truth and justice simultaneously.
Eloquent citizens must express the truth firmly in a concise way that highlights the non political qualities of this impeachment effort.
3
Yes, it is constant and can seem overwhelming. Man-up. Our republic is in danger. It is up to each if us to stay as apprised as possible on all that transpires.
Vote with a vengeance in November.
2
The constant and overwhelming barrage of news and counter-news is just exhausting. That exhaustion, though, is exactly what Trump and his supporters are counting on to keep them in power. When we as Americans become Charlie Brown listening to his teacher, the Republicans have succeeded. I fear we are at that point.
I think "trove" is going to be the go-to word for the next few
months, the way "upend" was in the first few months of Trump's administration and "legacy" was in the last months of Obama's.
 The media can yet salvage its reputation by using ONLY direct quotes. That goes for our representatives as well. Shame what Schiff said about THE phone call. He is a man I admire greatly with a stellar reputation. He just added fuel for Trump’s bonfire. As do some members of the media who are overly inflammatory and not quite accurate.
NOT QUITE ACCURATE doesn’t cut it.
Even though there is much ado about Trump’s difficulty with finding, understanding and accepting the truth we still have an opposition party in place to bring him to task. While the opposition is at times imperfect it is still doing it’s task. So long as we have two or more opposing parties we have hope. Trump’s dictator pals aren’t hindered by strong dissenting opposition and we see what that leads to...lovely places like North Korea and Russia to name just a couple places.
6
This entire administration has made our Constitution a meaningless farce. Flaunting casual, political recklessness as astute, global governmental maneuvering, backed by the GOP Senate to secure a legislative lock in Congress, unchecked by a flailing Democratic House that smacks of a complicit effort to maintain a pro-corporate hold on whatever legislation may develop. Where is the truth? It is made up to suit the topic, then buried between web pages and promptly ignored by people who prefer 10 second sound bites to reading anything more than 120 characters.
3
There aren't two sets of facts. Just one. The GOP is trying to distract from what the president did with accusations about elections and Biden and who knows what else. There aren't two sides. Unless you mean the truth and their lies
6
If truth itself is on trial, then it was stopped while driving 25 mph in a 35 mph zone, required to pass a field sobriety test, told a rear tail light was flickering, arrested for possessing oregano, subjected to a cavity search, assaulted in jail and given a public defender who had never tried a case before who told truth to plead guilty, & request leniency because the judge didn't like truth's appearance and was in a hurry to make his tee time.
5
This is not about “truth.” The heart of the matter here is the distinction between (1) subjective “spin,“ which is inherent to human perception, and (2) “gaslighting,” which is the outright denial or manipulation of demonstrable facts, subject to multiple independent sources of verification, in the service of rewriting history.
Both serve to promote various interests. The former, because of our innate tendency to see facts differently, we must confront in all fairness. The latter, by contrast, is cynical, bloody-minded, sinister, and must be called by its proper name and quarantined like the deadly virus it is if belief in anything – be it political institutions, the mass media, or anything else influencing the quality of democracy and the health of civic culture – is to exist and persist.
In the former world view, we see a shoe that looks blue to one person and green to another. In this case, we can legitimately disagree about a secondary attribute. Yet we still agree on its primary attribute and call it “a shoe.” So, at the very least, we have a common, anchoring parameter of empirical reality.
In the latter, Trumpian, world view, we disagree not only about the color of the shoe, but the dissimulator also tries to convince us that the shoe is a dog. Alas, we have no common, anchoring parameter of empirical reality, and hence no basis for agreement on any subject at all.
A willful disintegration of ontology and epistemology of this sort is how societies collapse.
5
I watched a lot of the proceedings.
One takeaway was watching Democrats trying to explain Trump did not necessarily wanting Ukraine to investigate Biden but rather just announce they intended to.
Seemed like a missed opportunity to frame it as Trump trying to generate “fake news”.
It appears that the Democrats don’t understand the audience.
However important it is to to act like the adults in the room they must learn to speak in sound bites.
In other words the language of their opposition.
3
There is quite a narrow range of perspectives on offer among the sources quoted in this article. The Times needs to reach further than the Beltway political and media world. That is not the only group with opinions worth mentioning.
If only we had some organization staffed with knowledgeable people who could discern the truth and had a nation wide platform on which they could fearlessly state the truth and call out lies.
"each person or party entertains only their own preferred variant," Another nonsense story about how both sides do it! It is just not true. The Republican Party has become the party of lies.
2
The Republicans have definitely worn out Groucho Marx's old claim of; "Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"
2
Only s few minutes ago I saw Kevin McCarthy (Republican House Leader) tell some out-and-out lies on CNN. It seems Republicans have boiled everything down to one thing: Democrats are the evil. No matter what the matter in question, it's always the same argument: Democrats are the evil. It testifies to the "dumbing down" we have been warned about for decades. Trump has figured it out, and the Republicans have seen him get away with it enough that his playbook is now totally theirs. I wonder how sober Republicans justify it all, or maybe they simply gave up.
2
It is amazing how prescient Goebbels and Orwell were. But their success depends on having an audience that cannot distinguish truth from lies, and therefore sees no difference between them. Our school system bears much on the blame: it focuses too much on job training rather than education and results in a population that is easily manipulated.
2
Where’s Mitch and Lindsay? Maybe working on how they’re gonna’ survive 2020? Or is it that they just can’t talk as fast and incoherently as Jim Jordan or that Collins guy? I will continue to trust my gut when it comes to all things political and “it’s still walking like a duck and quacking like a duck” - except I’m pretty sure even ducks know a liar when they see one.
1
To believe in trump or republicans is to believe in fantasy. To want trump as president is to hate the real hope of America. Reality does not need these people who want to have their judges inflict their religious beliefs on us or money in only their own pockets while closing their eyes to the horror of trump.
No one with an ounce of respect wants someone like trump in our government much les the White House. We should want someone who inspires us to be better. Not someone who says roll in the mud with me or risk a nasty tweet or be shut out of my dictatorship. trump makes us ugly, less caring, less worldly.
2
The truth is the truth. It is not on trial. We are on trial. And especially journalists like Mr. Baker. Never before has it been so important for reporters to stop fearing being perceived as biased by one side or the other. A report came out yesterday that exposed the lie behind hundreds of the president's statements over the past several years. It's time to start using the word. The president sat there lying about what is in the report and not a single reporter challenged him about his lying. The president and his lies are only part of the problem. Stop letting him get away with it. Stop letting Barr get away with it. Report the truth.
3
This is the ultimate danger that Trump poses to our republic. He has utterly destroyed the truth. Trump is the anti-reality president.
In a republican democracy, the people have the ultimate power with their vote. If the people are making decisions based entirely upon false information, then they become pawns of liars and corruption. The biggest liars and most corrupt are the ones who scream the loudest that everyone else is lying.
People are easily fooled. People like to think that they are independent agents in control of their thoughts, but people can be led down almost any path with the right techniques of manipulation. History is rife with such occurrences.
Trump is an expert of such techniques. He has totally fooled his base. He can literally do no wrong and if he did, it doesn't matter because he is Trump. Trump has achieved the status of a king to his base.
This is where we are and the Republican Congresspeople have followed in lock step 100%. They will support all of their king's lies and crimes. In fact, to them, Trump has never done anything wrong. He cannot. You see, Trump is their king.
2
America is in danger, not so much because of what Donald Trump has done as president, though his reign of error and malice is truly something from which it may never recover, but because of what those elected Republicans have failed to do and because too many Americans have turned their thinking caps off. Republicans have abandoned the interests of their nation for their personal end goal, that of getting re-elected, and in doing so, have undermined American democracy, given the finger to America’s rule of law, and trashed America’s credibility as a reliable ally; Trump is a joke turned dangerous and his supporters even more so because they refuse to acknowledge reason preferring derangement and shallowness and the big lie by poseurs offering an empty cup without any pretence of it being more than it is. The Republican party does not believe the lies they offer to protect Trump from impeachment any more than they believe in Trump; they just believe and hope their supporters cannot differentiate fact from fiction so they push the fiction of a vast conspiracy to get Trump and the Republicans. It’s working. We’re suckers for conspiracies.
3
Sorry to say, the left-right divide is characterized by deep differences in discernment of reality. It's one of the most existentially serious threats a free society can face. (That fella Orwell knew what he was talking about.) Here's more on the left-right reality divide: https://tinyurl.com/ty6j3hb
1
The truth can be found, it just requires following multiple threads and taking time on a single subject. For example, with the statement of “there was no quick pro que”, I ask “why not Mr President?” If you really believe that Ukraine is corrupt, and you believe that the OMB didn’t do their job properly by vetting the anti corruption steps outlined, then why don’t you double down on facts? The answer may be because the assertion is more powerful than the facts (and yes, facts is plural, not one phone call). As we have all figured out now, assertions over facts is the playbook. Doesn’t matter what you assert, just double down. Don’t let facts get in the way. However, we’ve had enough time to study his playbook and no longer choose to accept false bravado over detailed analysis of facts.
Stop saying "...friendly news outlets..." The network inferred by this statement does NOT provide news as it has come to be expected. What it provides is pure propaganda, and it should be deligitimized.
3
Trump cannot hide his corruption and incompetence even with a bodyguard of lies.
(With apologies to Winston Churchill)
2
A president with compulsive inabilities to speak the truth,
has no honor.
Such a man draws men & women of darkness.
4
Soon after the Steele dossier started the hunt for chargeable wrong doing, headlines implicating Trump guilt were contradicted by details embedded deep in the story and footnotes. Now, the Horowitz report is reported using headlines implicating the FBI did nothing wrong..and the damning information deep within the story detailing irregularities indicating extreme bias at the bare minimum. Durham and Barr will have the last word on this.
Lane, the counterintelligence investigation in to the Trump campaign was initiates long before the FBI received the Steele dossier. Your comment is a perfect example of that Baker is discussing here. You are spreading a falsehood publicly. If you know it is a falsehood, then you have just spread a lie.
1
We need to call out rampant dishonesty for what it is, we need to silence disinformation campaigns. Simply having a side does not mean one has a worthwhile point.
5
It has become abundantly clear that we need to regulate free speech due to certain participants not acting in good faith.
If/when sane people take over our branches of government, the highest priority should be to reinstate an updated Fairness Doctrine so that we don't have propaganda channels brainwashing Americans 24/7. It should cover cable TV, radio, and the search/recommendation/machine-learning algorithms of social media platforms.
All news sources should have non-partisan credit ratings like securities that are evaluated based on their ability to professionally report facts without wild distortions or omissions. Blog/twitter posts or the many propaganda websites posing as "news" would have junk bond ratings. Make it easier for people to check their sources.
It will take a long time to undo the damage that has already been done, but we should start as soon as possible.
1
Compare the calm, measured tones of Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler to the apoplectic ranting of Republicans (Collins, Gaetz, Ratcliffe Graham, et al.) and their circus stunts (silly posters in the hearing room, including Adam Schiff on a milk carton), and there's no mystery at all about who's telling the truth. Republicans worship the most prolific and prolix liar in history and, like so many ventriloquist's dummies, speak exclusively in psittacisms. So where's the great mystery about who's telling the truth?
11
It will be much better if some republicans vote for impeachment.
6
This is a seriously flawed article. Mr. Baker engages in the worst kind of both-sidesism, twisting himself into a pretzel while trying to maintain journalistic "objectivity." It is Trump and the Republicans who are lying and promoting false conspiracy theories. Congressional Democrats are pursuing the truth. By implying that both sides engage in lies and obfuscation and that the impeachment hearings are a political free-for-all, Mr. Baker further muddies the picture, contributing to the public's confusion about who is telling the truth.
6
Show me any Democrat who lies with the frequency and audacity of Trump, McConnell, Nunes, Conway, Ronna McDaniel, Sarah Sanders, etal.
You can't -- because there are not any.
7
I found a quote I believe is from from Neil degrass Tyson. It rings so true today.
"To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power because there is no basis to do so. Post-truth is pre-facism."
10
How can you quote Ben Domenech in an article on trust, given the very serious concerns of plagarism, undisclosed financial support (i.e., Malaysia), and fabrications (i.e., Justice Kagan) that surround him?? This is tantamount to quoting Harvey Weinstein on gender issues and Boris Johnson on good manners.
5
“Truth is like poetry and no one likes poetry”.
3
Expecting something different from Trump and the Republicans would be just insane. The entire GOP endorsed Trump’s lies for three years transforming the administration and the party in a sort of monster. Now this monster is devouring itself.
I don’t imagine what this country would become if we hadn’t REAL patriots working hard to stop the selfishness and the abuse of power of Trump and his minions.
3
This sort of talk gives own side too much credit.
They are all liars. All of them. Both sides.
It is not truth that is on trial, it is DC that is on trial. It lost.
1
The danger is that those people brought up never to lie turn away from the fray, revolted. There are quite a few of us folk brought up to believe that honesty is always the best policy. I'm of an age when one's parents were inclined - in fact, legally permitted - to emphasise the negative aspects of dishonesty painfully and physically. Yet, these days we're viewed as quaint, naive, gullible, wet, wimpish. The behaviour I'm witnessing from our 'leaders' is, to me, profoundly shocking, yet to others is the swashbuckling, winner takes all machismo of 'real' men.
It's not just America. With two days to the most crucial election in a generation, Boris Johnson and his vile coterie of liars and manipulators are smearing and spinning in a way that beggars belief. Shown an viral, awkward, politically embarrassing image of a small child utterly failed by our broken public health system, Johnson first denied its existence, then refused to look at it and then, finally, snatched the journalist's phone and hid it in his own pocket! Within an hour, his ghastly lieutenants had fabricated a counter-story about an 'assault' on one of Johnson's party by the Labour opposition, dismissed the photo as 'staged' or simply fake and today constructed an elaborate hoax narrative about this sick child's parents pleading for privacy.
I'm sick to my stomach. I want nothing to do with this. I'm tuning out; doing something else.
5
“ A lie ain’t a side of the story , it’s just a lie . “ From The Wire a story about another criminal enterprise .
5
Proud to be a Democrat today.
3
When a serial liar denies his guilt he cannot be believed. What wearies the soul is listening to Republican senators telling the same lies in defense of the man they know to be a liar.
6
I really don’t like it when articles equate the 2 sides. It makes it seem like the facts are irrelevant and I really can’t accept that
6
Well said.
1
I've been involved in scientific research for over 30 years and in my graduate training and practical experience, I've learned a lot about things such as empiricism and epistemology. Nowhere have I learned that there are "both sides" to facts even where facts are in dispute or come to be altered by new technology, attempts at replication, etc. "Objectivity" simply doesn't have that kind of symmetry.
The conventional Beltway wisdom which Baker regularly uses to guide his writing conflates "both side" with objectivity. Both sider-ism is simply cowardice and covering one's behind should one side be offended by something. If there was a real concern about "sides", then we would be getting a much wider range of opinions and neo-confederates might be "balanced" with actual socialists. Instead, neo-confederates occasionally get op-ed pieces and people on the far other side get noting.
The facts here are clear because it's pretty clear who is lying and who isn't. Baker might lose access to few random gasbags on "one side" by noticing that but good reporting wouldn't be affected if empiricism was the standard of objectivity rather than David Broder-style objectivity. Broder made much of a "pox on both your houses" but it always was obvious that he was an Alf Landon Republican (he was old enough for that) who'd never gotten over the New Deal and beyond a soft spot for Civil Rights had not assimilated changes in US politics since his youth. Baker isn't that old but is no more wise.
44
@Rich--
I, too, was directly involved in scientific research for more than thirty years. I can't begin to count the number of times that the results of an experimental study were presented--"facts" allegedly beyond dispute--when two or more other "experts" found that the data presented "supported" each of their own pet theories, which were often diametrically opposed. Facts may often be beyond dispute, yet they can still be interpreted in various ways to support the agendas of the various "investigators." That's what I believe we are seeing here. Facts may be beyond dispute, yet still interpreted in enough different ways so as to make the head of an impartial observer spin.
1
@Zee
Yes, very post-modern. I, too, was directly involved in scientific research (see, for instance, "An asymptomatic mutation complicating severe chemotherapy-induced peripheral neuropathy (CIPN)." NPJ Genomic Medicine, published online 6/8/2016), only I paid attention during science philosophy and ethics classes. You're making a point that creationists and other anti-science crusaders have sharpened into a tool useful for them, that "facts" in research are very often reassessed in light of new data and found to be wrong. Asserting that this is the same thing as spinning a false narrative to support the Republican president is just another example of false equivalency.
8
@Mike Holloway
Did I mention a word about creationists and anti-science crusaders? I'm talking about the different interpretations of the same laboratory test data by hard-headed physical scientists during my career that spanned from 1972--2002. Clearly, you aren't much of a scientist, but you ARE a strange kind of paranoid.
There is the truth about one thing, and then there is the whole truth. It's the whole truth we either can't get or don't want to hear or accept. Those "Answer Yes or No" questions lawyers ask witnesses or debate moderators ask candidates force the respondents to tell truth or lie about one discrete action with no opportunity to put that action in any context. No room for extenuating circumstances or motive. Our recent political discourse and news coverage have been dominated by "sound bites" that take a speaker's words out of context to deliver maximum damage. Both politicians and news agencies can stop with that and it will go a long way toward restoring faith in our government leaders and institutions and respect for facts and truth.
2
Republicans have deliberately attempted to promote "alternative facts". This allows them to discredit scientific findings that don't support their agendas and convince the public that trickle down economics creates great jobs. The absence of truth and the degradation of the free press is the death of our Democracy.
4
"Fair is foul, and foul is fair." So the three witches chanted opening Shakespeare's play, "Macbeth". The next line accurately depicts our time when the public is divided about what is truth and who speaks the truth. "Hover through the fog and filthy air." When lies and conspiracy theories seem to be the modus operandi of our government and culture, our world seems more uncertain, undiscernible, and unreliable. Courage and conviction seemingly give way to fear and cowardice. Perhaps the three witches tell us how we get passed this impasse of relative truths. The coming together on the heath will be "when the hurlyburly is done, when the battle is lost and won." We will have to get through the fog and filthy air in order to reclaim and validate truth, transparency, and trust. Put another way, "where your is there will your heart be also." If truth, transparency, and trust are treasured, then our hearts will be also. I don't mean to be simplistic or Pollyanna, but throughout our history Americans at their best treasured these and similar virtues.
1
47% of voters have trouble determining the credibility of a “news” story. Republicans have largely created that confusion and taken advantage of it. Both parties have long indulged in spin, but Republicans are going beyond that and outright lying. Ranking Member Collins yesterday on live TV accused Daniel Goldman of getting his current job because he (supposedly) donated a million dollars to the Democratic Party. Collins gave Goldman no chance to respond and the lie went forth. Just one of thousands of examples of blatant lying by Republicans. The House impeachment inquiry has produced a steady stream of lies and distortions. Apparently, lying is now the only way Republicans know how to stay in power.
3
In a free society there is not a very severe punishment for lying.
Over the years lying has become simply a way of doing business both in government and the private sector.
People lie to the police constantly where there is little expectation that anyone will ever tell the truth.
Cynicism becomes a way of life.
4
There is such a thing as truth, but knowing what it is, is becoming increasingly difficult in an increasingly polarized political system. Yeah, Trump lies a lot, an awful lot, actually, and mostly the Democrats don't. But this observation by Baker doesn't really get us past his implicit presumption that political "relativism" by both sides makes them both equally guilty of spinning a narrative, and that only a return to journalistic "objectivism" can save us now. The fact is, Trump rolled professional journalists from the beginning, despite all their calls for "objectivity," leaving the republic vulnerable to Trump's march toward fascism. Trump is proof we need new rules to find the truth. Baker's call to use the old rules, yet again, but this time better, aren't going to save us.
1
A large swath of the country doesn't really subscribe to the idea of America which has been more of a myth than reality.
2
If only there was a group of people out there whose job it was to look into statements and actions, search for objective evidence of them, and then somehow print or inform the public what is true and what are lies in some sort of public and easily distributable forum that they could read or watch...
1
Reading the comments section today is more inciteful than the article by Peter Baker. As many have stated, there are not two sides of equivalency anymore because the Republicans have given up the specter of behaving fairly and truthfully as representatives of this nation. We are in a severe crisis of preserving fact and understanding against the widespread shouting of false narrative and disinformation. Journalists need to be very clear and tough about this. As Blud said, "There is no democratic Jim Jordan. Just say if for gods sake." Yes!!!
3
The Truth has been on trial ever since Donald J. Trump was elected President with 63 million Americans voting to place him in the office which requires great Trust and ability to think rationally and carefully deliberate what is best for the country he swore to protect. We knew Trump was a liar, whether intentionally or due to his delusional narcissism that prevented him from thinking rationally. Remember that Trump was the most vocal proponent of the false idea that Barack Obama was born in Kenya, despite incontrovertible proof that he was born in Hawaii. Yet 63 million voted for him. Hillary was flawed, but she at least was rational and intelligent and capable of learning from past mistakes. Trump has shown himself incapable of learning, incapable of understanding and incapable of leading. He has been a disgrace to America and a disaster for future generations who will have to live in an America that has been diminished by a president who has worked against the best interests of the country he swore to serve and protect in order to protect his own self-interests.
7
The attack on truth is the price we pay for the gross materialism and greed that have come to dominate every waking moment of our cultural existence. The private accumulation of wealth has become our Holy Grail, and which makes every other aspect of our social fabric secondary, if not irrelevant. Capitalism, indeed, vulture capitalism, is valued more than democracy itself. From television ads to never-ending wars there is no lie too big that cannot be trotted out in support of the kind of policies that promote the worsening of the income, wealth and privilege disparities in our nation. Ironically, those who recognize the destructive nature of these circumstances and call for policies that begin to reverse them are accused of attacking our nation’s spiritual values. Hah! There is no religion on earth that would try to justify our worship of greed and private wealth. And there is no nation on earth that has survived this kind of sociopathic behavior.
5
Our society doesn't worship truth. We worship money.
Truth is whatever justifies taking more.
7
When all this is finally over, and Trump is gone, Putin will take a victory lap and show all he had on Trump.
3
I am waiting to hear the question county lawyer Sam Ervin would ask a witness during the Watergate Hearings " What do you mean?" If I hear this question, I'd celebrate with a bourbon.
2
Okay we found out that we have been lied to so take it a step further tell us who’s making the big money off of the dying and maimed soldiers in Afghanistan.
2
I propose a new rule: The use of the term “underscore,” or its variants, is hereby prohibited in “analysis” pieces...as in the phrase:
“... underscoring the deep distrust that many Americans harbor toward their leaders and institutions.”
The thing being “underscored” so often completely invalidates the entire piece (as in this case, “many Americans” being perhaps the lowest bar of newsworthiness one could imagine, here in America) that we ought to just dispense with the term altogether, as a rule. It promotes laziness.
My two cents.
And William Barr just issued a misleading statement about the Horowitz report, designed to favor Mr. Trump. He AGAIN spun facts to back up the pre-conceived narrative even after an exhaustive investigation was conducted. We are indeed in perilous times.
4
Trump is a master strategic dissembler, the veritable Ricky Jay of deceit. He practices the art of sleight of tongue not merely to obliterate truth, but to divert attention away from conduct that he would rather not see the light of day. For example, he has gutted environmental regulations because “we have the cleanest air and water” and because “climate change is a hoax”...but his deregulation also permits favored polluting industries (and campaign donors) to increase profits. And then there is the utter opaqueness of his business interests, which may underlie his stated policies, such as the Russia romance, and Mid-East alliance with the Saudis.
However, Trump’s attraction to his “base”, which cannot be stereotyped into one demographic, does not lie in the veracity of his words or the essence of truth those words convey. It is his “apparent” fidelity to the promises he has made to each of his diverse constituecy.
To those fearing the changing demographics of our population, he has relentlessly through rhetoric and policy acted to thwart immigration, including legal immigration.
To those who believe in “white power” he has blown dog whistles and fog horns. To his borthers in wealth he has delivered massive tax relief; to his evangelical supporters, he has appointed judges and pledged his loyalty to their cause.
His supporters do not rely on his words, his policies deliver on his promises. For the rest of us, his policies are worse, in the long run, than his lies.
3
Watching yesterday’s hearing was instructive. On one side was a good faith effort to be truthful and dignified; on the other, a clown show of yelling while speaking fast to obscure the fact that they had nothing of substance to add. They whined, yelled, spewed Russian memes, and gave very selective interpretations of testimony I had watched.
Claiming that Pence’s aide had found the July 25th phone call “unusual” and ignoring that she also said it was “disturbing and political” is a good example of lying by creating a false impression. Then the accusation that the Democrats have a predetermined outcome from years of watching Trump debase his office might have some merit were it not so patently obvious that they have no interest in the truth themselves.
Keep going, Dems, the other side has only faux outrage and distraction to offer. Republics are loud, empty, rattling barrels ignoring their duty to their office. They are a disgrace to adulthood.
3
Donald Trump presents his political opponents with the conundrum of pacifists in the face of an adversary willing to go to war. Stick to your principles and be conquered. Or fight back and compromise your ideals.
Trump is a vicious and dirty fighter. He will rhetorically gouge, kick and bite without mercy or qualms. His opponents who stick to the Marquess of Queensberry usually find themselves on the defensive.
It's unfortunate that when Trump's political opponents fight back hard, the media narrative in articles like Mr. Baker's is to paint it as "competing views of reality."
The only reality is this: Trump has convinced Republicans that principles and truth are political liabilities, while hypocrisy and lies carry the day with today's Republicans.
Boston University philosophy professor Lee McIntyre said, "The goal of propaganda is not to convince someone that you are right, but to demonstrate that you have authority over the truth itself. When a political leader is really powerful, he or she can defy reality.”
If democracy in the United States is to survive Donald Trump, it will take a stronger stand for truth than the weak tea served by Mr. Baker's article.
2
"...it has become axiomatic in the era of “alternative facts” that each person or party entertains only their own preferred variant, resisting contrary information."
This scholarly-sounding summary at the head of the article grossly mis-characterizes the actual theme of the numerous excellent examples that follow it.
It is not "each party"; it is one party. And it is not that "the truth is on trial", but that "the truth is on trial by Republicans".
The lede is a prime example of the lingering false equivalency that allows that trial to continue.
2
I think it is time for the Good Humor Man to pick up Pelosi, Schiff and Nadler.
The truth went out with Ronald Reagan and he eliminated of "Fairness Doctrine" thus paving the way for "Fox News" brand of spin and conspiracy theories.
Russian disinformation, described on these pages, continues from the KGB days to further confuse Americans. Trump encourages it and legitimizes it with attacks on US intelligence services who expose it.
2
I too am upset that the best newspaper in the country plays both sides of a straight-forward proposition, that Trump and the Republicans spout lies lies and more lies, from Lindsey Graham & McConnell to Trump AND Barr. What the Times needs to do to overcome their disability, is to send their pit-bull writer on the subject--writer Michelle Goldberg. Truth from Michelle. Insight from Michelle. And no wishy-washy wavering from Michelle! the Times SHOULD be joyous in employing this woman of macroscopic and microscopic abilities.
8
@jsinger, "Fair and balanced" is a registered trademark of Fox News. It has nothing to do with truth. I agree that it is time for The Times, in addition to reporting the facts, to advocate for them as well. Enough "equal time" to "conservatives"; the facts must be forcefully presented as hard as the right-wing pushes their alternative reality. The facts must be made to stick and to prevail.
1
In a court of law, there are similarly-trained lawyers arguing for and against. In these impeachment hearings, there is often no train of logic between "questioners" and "answerers," who often seem to be in not-parallel universes. Too many of both are only after blustery sound bites and (mis)leadingly redacted quotes. Public broadcasting has generated a zinger culture.
Not to know genuinely what is true and what is not is, as referenced in Mr. Baker's piece, truly a dangerous situation. More and more people tell me they honestly don't know who to believe. Frightening and let's hope not beyond repair.
3
@Steve
Could it be because trusted factual news sources absolutely insist on still playing at false equivalence as some sort of badge of non-bias?
1
"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..." America was founded on these "truths," but the reality is that they have been honored only intermittently. From the decimation of Native Americans to the establishment of slavery, the restriction of women's rights and Trump's demonization of Muslims and war on undocumented immigrants, our leaders have trampled on "these inalienable rights" whenever they get in the way of their pursuit of power. Today, I doubt whether more than a relative handful of Americans would recognize the source of Jefferson's words as the Declaration of Independence and why he felt it necessary to say them. Once they have disappeared completely, the country will have lost its soul.
2
Thanks for writing this. I have struggled to understand why nearly half of my fellow Americans are buying into alternate facts. The overall increasing lack of trust in all institutions is something that my friends and I have been talking about for some time. So what comes next? I believe this is paving the way for authoritarianism. I don't know how to stop it. Whoa unto the world if America becomes a fascist dictatorship. If they didn't like the USA before, they haven't seen anything yet. I believe that extremists on both sides of American politics would love to see us become a dictatorship where their world view is the one that rules. Maybe only the middle can save us. But they need to speak up.
4
@MVSABR, fact check, please: the "extreme left" is miniscule and non-influential, especially when compared to the extreme right, which has now been pushed into the mainstream. (People like Bannon and Bolton were, even less than a decade ago, considered untrustworthy fringe types.) Until this hard right ideology is extricated from mainstream discourse, the war against truth will continue. Please also note that many of what are now called left-wing policies now were mainstream American policies 40 and 50 years ago. True, they weren't always executed well, but they were ideals we strove toward.
1
What is perhaps more horrifying is that the republicans defending Trump (and the untruths) are representing their constituents, even if just by a slim margin in their districts, who are (mostly) aware of, and support the disinformation being spread.
We essentially have "Americans" (or better put, people who live in and have citizenship in this country) who want their representatives to disregard elements of the constitution in the interest of conservative court appointments, unreasonably defending the 2nd amendment, etc.
Though I find it deplorable, I am *slightly* less inclined to blame the representatives for lying (though they should know and do better), and rather blame the "americans" who want them to lie and defend Trump.
4
There are many reasons for loss of faith and trust in government. However, one of the main reasons is a strategic decision on the part of Republicans to intentionally undermine that trust. Take for example the republican attacks on the affordable care act when it was first enacted. There was talk of death panels and other falsehoods which caused the program to be viewed with skepticism and distrust. It took several years for the public to realize the benefits of what came to be known as Obama care. The falsehoods propagated by Republicans caused Democrats to suffer midterm losses in Obama‘s first term as president. Once the truth became obvious, it lead to huge election gains for Democrats. There are numerous examples of Republican strategy to undermine trust in government. One of the most blatant was the spread of false rumors that President Obama was not born in the United States. The Republican strategy has been supported by a right wing network of propaganda factories posing as news outlets. The damage done by this cynical strategy has been incalculable.
4
After watching significant portions of the hearings before the Intelligence and Judiciary committees, I now understand why John Boehner walked away from this sad lot of Republicans and from leadership of the House. Almost to a person, failure to uphold their oaths of office and to the Constitution to conduct themselves with an open mind, seriously and soberly. Instead, day after day after day of attempts to deflect attention from the question of "what did the president do and when did he do it?" through grandstanding, five minutes of hot air absent a single question to the witness. Well, just like the Wizard of Oz, their irresponsible actions say we should pay no attention to those Republicans in the corner. I fear for the future of the United States.
4
In a way, ”truth” has always and forever in world history been on trial. In our situation presently compared with our national past, this is more evident and has reached a critical point. Clearly, we are in midst of chaotic instability and existential threat. And this, oddly, may be good! Distressing, but good. Trump ... never mind impeachment ... has caused us to be at a moment for decision about life or death, which we may not have gotten to with the standard way of spinning that, in the name of celebrated cleverness, many in recent years have ... at least the “winners” and those admiring them ... marveled at. Truth, though, goes far beyond accuracy of fact and use as a commodity. The larger nature of truth would seem to be goodwill where, for example, even “honest mistakes” are readily forgiven. The trivialization of the importance of goodwill has had consequences that have hit home and, hopefully, awakened us.
This is what boggles the mind, that those of us who have at least some sense of history DID KNOW that going into Afghanistan, a tribal nation where democracy and gender equality are utterly alien, would be a fool's game -- an expensive fool's game -- impossible to win.
Only now, 15+ years later, is it acknowledged that the US military had NO idea what they were doing. But they and Congress had no problem with sending in young troops, like my son (who survived three tours to Iraq and Afghanistan), sacrificing thousands of them. For what? Absolutely nothing. Nothing gained. And obviously nothing learned.
4
Just watched Nadler and Schiff
The impeachment articles have been watered down to those with the most nebulous definition and need for specific data / evidence.
Abuse of power
Obstruction of Congress
The 2 acts cited include the comments during a rally "Russia if you are listening", and forcing congress to go to court to get the documents and or potentially privileged communications.
Both were manifestations of the same thing
At the rally, DJT was gleefully poking his finger in the eye of Hillary and her supporters
Regarding obstruction, DJT was poking his finger in the eye of Congress over their fever to impeach which has existed before the tears were dry on the floor of the Javitz center on election night 2016.
As an aside, the oft quoted "I can do anything under article 2" was taken out of context, and was specifically stated in the context of theoretically firing Mueller, and firing Comey.
The WH lack of involvement in the process on the house side so far has allowed the administration to sit back, evaluate the points made by the opposition, and plan for scorched earth in the Senate.
Meanwhile, the long game goes on
Judicial appointments
Deregulation
Force the Federal government back towards enumerated powers, and leave the rest to the States as directed in the constitution. That's a fight worth having.
To quote some congressmen - What's coming will be "Fastballs to the head" in the Senate and from Prosecutor Durham, who has a much wider reach than the IG.
1
@Todd Stultz, the packing of the courts will be the longest lasting and most toxic of the trumpist legacies. Tragic.
This article is deeply unfair in its peddling of false equivalence and the idea that Republicans and Democrats have their own truths while objective reality has dissapeared. Let's see what we have here in this impeachment inquiry. On one side we have a mass of exhaustively obtained information based on written records and testimonies under oath of career professionals and Trump appointees that present clear and detailed evidence of the President abusing his power to coerce a foreign government to interfere in the 2020 election to his benefit. On the other side we have refusal to provide documents and officials to testify, a refusal to participate, verbal abuse of Democrats and those who testified, denial of facts and peddling of conspiracy theories that originate in Russia. Contrary to what Mr. Baker says, there is a fact-based reality and it is in the report produced by the Intelligence Committee. Only one side is engaged in a war on reality here. The Times does a disservice when it fails to acknowledge this.
3
Sort of, kind of looks to me that the republicans and Trump want to have the liberty to decide what is truth and what is not. (according to their dictates and political agenda.
Would it not be great if the impeachment witnesses and their questioners were hooked up to lie detectors that would sound an alarm and light up when they went off the rails.
4
Thank you for your piece Mr. Baker, but you are part of the problem as evidenced by your seemingly balanced approach. That is a problem because buried in your seemingly balanced approach are the scattered statements reflecting the substantial disparity between the Republicans', particularly Trump's, misrepresentations of fact and truth, and the Democrats. Yes, both parties do it, and have done it historically, but there is absolutely no equivalency between the Democrats and Republicans, not even close, even historically, at least for the last twenty years. And, yes, you point that out with respect to Trump, but the disparity gets buried in your attempt to be balanced, or "even handed." But by doing that you are in fact misrepresenting the truth and the current state of affairs, resulting, in fact, in an inaccurate portrayal of our political society. Someone needs to do serious, evidenced based analysis for the public that it can easily digest reflecting this disparity. You're simply contributing to the problem but implicitly suggesting that both parties have historically done it without actually reflecting where the objective truth lies.
3
Trump’s lasting legacy will be exposure of the extent to which our government of the people, by the people, and for the people has gone off the rails.
The fleecing of America has been bureaucratized and made systemic.
Unelected bureaucrats use the power of state for corrupt purposes.
For the people has become the last priority.
Trump’s sin is to question and threaten the funds flow.
The battle is playing out before our eyes.
Who will win?
1
“Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either” - Albert Einstein
That’s the thing about lies and lying. It starts out with a small lie, then another, and another. Sooner or later the weight of the truth brings it crashing down. All we need is that one truth, however large or small, that brings it all down.
1
Sadly the Clinton impeachment circus forever tarnished the impeachment process in the American collective mind as a partisan exercise fomented by sore losers. Fair or not, that is how it is now viewed. It's like instant replay three years after the game ended: right or wrong, at that point there is no way the 'winners' will concede: 'you are right, we lost, here's my Super Bowl ring, so sorry'. As with Nixon, the focus should have been on the upcoming election, with impeachment reserved for 2021 (as a back stop).
Fox news is a propaganda machine for the Republican party. Fox and Trump says MSN and CNN are news organizations for the democrats. The facts are always in dispute. Truth is hard to get to. It takes effort and judgement, many people don't have the desire or want. By the way Bush administration that worries about truth after the invasion of Iraq, the war in Afghanistan and torture strikes me as absurd.
2
I find this analysis to be lacking in that it does not highlight the asymmetrical quality of lying in Washington. To be sure, LBJ was quite the dissembler and Clinton lied about an affair (like, who wouldn't?). This list could go on but I think it's safe to say that none of this prevarication comes even close to the assault on the truth, larded with racist and violent demagoguery, by Donald Trump and the GOP, in general. The comparison is not even close but the media never addresses it, which make you complicit or a victim in my estimation. Nevertheless, all of this successful lying can only be accomplished with a semi-literate, marginally numerate population. And, unfortunately, that is us. Until we get better, the lying will go on.
1
“The danger is people come to believe that nobody is giving them the facts and reality, and everybody can make up their own script and their own narrative.” But it is not “everybody.” The epistemology of the right is a finely orchestrated and constructed reality, disseminated by the most watched cable TV channel. This is not free-range, willy-nilly sense making and narrative constructions by every Joe and Jane. It has authors and architects. And a good percentage of the GOP that is willing to swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Until we deal with that, democracy is in deep trouble.
1
What's on trial is whether it's acceptable to use impeachment to overturn a democratic election whose result you didn't like and can't accept. I am a registered never-Trump Republican. I will be voting for Trump in 2020 as a reaction to this abomination of legislative power.
The WSJ on 12/5 had a simple sentence, "there has never been an investigation of the Bidens' behavior in Ukraine." Joe can keep saying no one has any evidence of wrongdoing, and he's right, until there's an investigation there is no evidence period.
The President has every right to demand an investigation. Quid pro quo is the normal conduct of our foreign policy. The charge that he was investigating a rival was irrelevant legally, now that Schiff has asked for phone records of Republican congressmen without a warrant it's pure hypocrisy.
Hunter was the son of the Vice President and he was being paid $50,000 a month to do a job he wasn't qualified to do. Maybe he earned the money. The only way to find out is to do an investigation. Joe's squashing of the previous investigation was not a crime; no more than Trump's demand it be re-opened. Pure vindictive nonsense!
We have legislation to pass and a country to run. That the Democrats first demanded impeachment based on the Mueller report which found no evidence of collusion and then demand impeachment based on normal conduct of foreign policy is nothing but crying wolf.
I am so angry at this process I will support Trump. Good work Democrats.
This is not really about truth. It's about power, and politicians and "elites" abusing the leash they're given. Time and again in American history we see crass opportunism rear its head. Then it's beaten down, maybe by a civil war, maybe a great depression, maybe civil rights and Vietnam protests.
Republican voters have emphatically dropped the leash, and predictably the monster is rearing up again.
Trump has done such a dis-service to this country. I don't think we could have a more corrupt individual in the WH. I still question his sanity. With him continuing to push mis-truths, I think it is more time for the 25 Amendment to be enforced than impeachment.
This man poses a clear and present danger to this country. This will all be on the Republicans heads soon, the Democrats have done what they can to right this ship.
1
The Captive Mind by C. Milosz, about how people in post-war Poland became captive to the Soviet point of view, makes good reading these days.
1
"“We’re in a dangerous moment,” said Peter Wehner, a former strategic adviser to President George W. Bush and a vocal critic of Mr. Trump. “The danger is people come to believe that nobody is giving them the facts and reality, and everybody can make up their own script and their own narrative.”" You mean like Saddam having WMD, right?
1
I fear for the future of our democracy. Trump and his GOP cronies throw out so many lies and create so much smoke - in an attempt to see what sticks to the wall. Which lie is most believable to a naive public? They continue to confuse, to obfuscate and to undermine without conscience. Trump said yesterday that the IG report showed that there was an attempt to overthrow our government when nothing of the sort was in this report? How does he get away with this? Why aren't his GOP cronies calling this out?
Unfortunately, many folks don't read and unless they consult legitimate sources, they don't know what or who to believe. Unfortunately, many believe the loudest voice. And that's usually Trump.
Our democracy is being hijacked. Where are the checks and balances? Where is respect for rule of law? Why is truth so disposable?
I fear we are in a coup. I fear our democracy, our government is being taken over by with lies and smoke for the purpose of power and greed. How on earth do we come back from this?
1
trump either lies or speaks in gutter language. Are we supposed to imitate his level of intellect or lack there of? This country has fallen from its standards of excellence in so many ways, it is now a different country, back-sliding into an abyss of ignorance.
I know we seniors are glad of our age and almost welcome our fare thee well in these times of national decline. Either the younger generation saves America, or they will have a long road of misery ahead of them. Not only will their intellectual, and democratic freedoms be quashed, but so will their economic future be in danger in the oligarch economy of the future.
As Reagan once said, (although someone else wrote it): "Democracy can be extinguished in one generation." This might very well be that generation.
52
There is no such thing as "obstruction of Congress." The branches are regulated by the courts. Abuse of power has not met threshold definitions. The concept of truth will indeed be on trial in the Senate, where the House motion will be defeated in law.
@Matt Andersson So is it that you don't believe the witness after witness who made it crystal clear that Trump dangled a WH meeting and Congress-approved Javelins to try to coerce a foreign ally to publicly announce an investigation of a potential political opponent, or that you're fine with that?
1
Only because the GOP majority in the Senate is as corrupt as Trump.
Would you have been fine with President Obama holding up aid to a foreign ally until it investigated trump during the 2016 campaign? I doubt it. There is such as thing as obstructing a congressional investigation despite your bending of the truth.
2
Unfortunately we are living in an Orwellian state- when true is false and false is true- and the true aim of Republicans is to make it impossible for the public to discern truth- thereby shielding them from any accountability. We also live in an age where a President who is morally reprehensible and known to be so by large segments of the public- is defended by large numbers of the selfsame public. A public that is so ignorant of their nation's Constitution- that can't even discern its logic, moral justification and importance- and relate it today's perils.
Calling today's Right "conservative" is a bastardization of the term. They are radical in every sense of the word and espouse and practice a world view that views power as the sole justification and end.
There is every expectation that the Senate trial will be a farce and will perilously divide the country. There is no argument- no matter how specious and morally corrupt that the Republicans in the Senate will not make. And it is true- if Trump isn't removed from office. electorally or otherwise- the stakes are beyond measure.
27
This is seriously the most depressing thing I’ve read in a long while.
6
Kellyanne Conway summarized Republican governance when she coined 'Alternative Facts.'
Republicans have long operated in a fun house mirror reality of shifting realities and moralities based on who is doing what to whom and when. Trump and his Republican administration have turned the whole country into their own personal circus complete with a sideshow filled with grifters, cons and carny barkers.
12
Power corrupts. America, as the world’s only super power for the last 70 years is therefore super corrupted and always yet more corruptible. Americans must give up their belief of their exalted position of dominance and exceptionalism and come to a more humble belief that others may have something to teach Americans and examples to show America. Otherwise you will continue on this completely self inflicted self destructive trajectory. There are those who believe things are so bad that neither side can ever learn from others and who therefore suggest a second civil war is a possibility. The warning signs are flashing.
10
I agree wholeheartedly and am constantly amazed that Americans somehow think we can avoid the fate of all Empires, super powers, etc. and that is - they fall from within. Power does corrupt absolutely and no country, institution or profession is exempt. As a brilliant history professor once told me “technology is the only thing that changes throughout time, human nature never does.” Sadly, I have learned that she was 100% correct.
In the likely event the GOP run Senate refuses to expel Trump from office for all of his impeachable offenses, the truth has lost. It also will result in even more blatant efforts by Trump and the Republican Party to get and use foreign meddling in our election. If, God help us, Trump wins in 2020 with obvious foreign interference, our Republic is dead and blatant lying has prevailed over the truth.
These are dangerous times.
13
Thank you, Peter, for laying it out.
I've watched every hearing related to impeachment since Nixon, gavel to gavel, but the lies and refusal to acknowledge facts and clear evidence by the Republicans at yesterday's hearings finally made me shut off the tv. What point listening to their lies and obfuscations anymore? Republican Washington DC and Fox NotNews have turned our capitol into its own cartoonish version of Gotham.But it's not funny. It's tragic.
Adult, educated, supposedly knowledgeable men and women who took solemn oaths to protect the US Constitution have adopted and continuously promote wholesale lies to protect the most corrupt administration in US history.
The saddest part? Old, egotistical Democrats seem more concerned about winning for themselves than pulling together and finding a way to win for the country and its people.
We Democrats must soon figure out how to use the extraordinary resources among the bloated field of candidates to focus on two candidates. Take the best ideas from all candidates and come up with a focused plan and send everyone out to communicate it to the voters.
11
I've watched every hearing related to impeachment since Nixon, gavel to gavel, but the lies and refusal to acknowledge facts and clear evidence by the Republicans at yesterday's hearings finally made me shut off the tv. What point listening to lies and obfuscations anymore? Republican Washington DC and Fox NotNews have turned our capitol into its own cartoonish version of Gotham. But it's not funny. It's tragic.
Adult, educated, supposedly knowledgeable men and women who took solemn oaths to protect the US Constitution have adopted and continuously promote wholesale lies to protect the most corrupt administration in US history.
The saddest part? Old, egotistical Democrats seem more concerned about winning for themselves than pulling together and finding a way to win for the country and its people.
We Democrats must soon figure out how to use the extraordinary resources among the bloated field of candidates to focus on two candidates. Take the best ideas from all candidates and come up with a focused plan and send everyone out to communicate it to the voters.
1
News flash: this ain't a both sides problem. The GOP has worked deliberately to degrade trust in US Institutions over the past 2 decades. Democrats didn't drag institutions of faith into the spotlight, twist them into convoluted and sickening purity tests that drove generations away from faith all together. Democrats don't say you can only believe one news source. Democrats don't tell you that your own government is actively out to hurt you. Democrats don't have a hissy fit every three months and threaten to bring the country to a grinding halt because....federal spending. And democrats don't try to pass legislation that undermines our research and knowledge because it doesn't please their donors.
Only one party did this.
39
Quoting Domenech lamenting the loss of truth is like quoting Sweeney Todd lamenting workplace violence.
2
Excellent, sad analysis of our broken society, split apart right out in the open since the Vietnam war. "Our country right or wrong,' was the right wing slogan defending mass murder based on a mountain of lies. 'America, love it or leave it,' was another Vietnam war era meme, a twisted version of which was back with Trump's chanting mob 'send them back.' Weirdly, more applicable to his love of the Russian way of shaping society than even the worst of Nixon's dictatorial instincts. Tricky Dicky wasn't dishonest enough to pull off his dirty deeds, but has Trump has learned form Nixon's mistakes?
Have the Republicans learned anything at all, are half the population of our country so gullible that they believe the Russian propaganda a sizable chunk of the Republican party and right wing media are parroting? Maybe the Trump campaign song for 2020 should be 'Back in the USSR,'... sorry about that Paul. I want to be able to hope for the best, but history lessons not learned by the Republicans in my 70 plus years tells me to expect something else, and makes me recall an even older slogan from my childhood, 'duck and cover.'
3
It seems to me that the USA is toast. P.T. Barnum is President, and the animals run the zoo. How much longer until law ceases to exist? In today's America, following the rules and telling the truth guarantees a last place finish. We are watching a complete crumbling of empire in real time.
6
The problem with truth includes the media who constantly promotes the both sideism blame game including journalists like Peter Baker and Chuck Todd, Fox News, Washington Times, Wall Street Journal, Politico, Wall Street Journal and on and on.
I believe this is done to ensure that a pipeline for interviews with politicians or people on both sides is maintained at all cost. The result is the continuous confusion and dumbing down of the American people and the continuous lies of politicians being spread by journalists even though they know what they are saying are lies.
3
Quoting Baker about Trump:
"And in some ways, his what-you-see-is-what-you-get approach makes him more transparent about his motives and feelings than any president in generations. Rather than hide his more base reactions and ambitions, however raw and unseemly, he flaunts them and invites his supporters to share them."
Except that Trump doesn't believe any of what he spews out every day. He admits as much, saying that lying is a form of marketing, about which he considers himself a genius. Which he clearly is.
This makes Trump a demagogue -- a person who lies about his lies. Democrats, I think, should spend time pointing out what Trump used to be, and what he is now, and how that makes him an unsurpassed fraud.
4
We are no longer a nation that believes in truth. The Trump Party, formerly the Republican Party, have ignored Truth and have supported their leader's massive lies.
Trump and his party are literally shouting how unfair the hearings are. Me thinks they protest too much!
4
@KAPS Impeachment is a sideshow. Meanwhile, the deconstruction of the administrative state effectively goes on. That is the long game. Force the Federal government back towards enumerated powers, and return the rest to the states as directed by the constitution. That's a fight worth having.
The only things Mr. Trump cares about are those things that can serve him. Truth is not one of those things. That is unfortunate, but unavoidable when you have led such a vapid existence.
3
Why are objectively untrue statements acceptable in a modern democracy? Every day, we see near real-time fact checking by multiple organizations, including the NY Times, that reveal all manner of obfuscation, dissembling and straight up lying. We all agree it is an appalling state of affairs that undermines our democracy, yet we act as if we are powerless to prevent it. Why?
No other profession is permitted to intentionally misrepresent the truth to their customers. If your plumber or electrician lied to you about the work they did, you would have legal recourse. If your accountant lied to you about how he managed your money, not only could he go to jail, but he could lose his certification and be barred from ever practicing again.
Yet, for some unknown reason, when it comes to the most important business of all, the governance of our country, we blithely accept the most obvious and egregious falsehoods with a feckless shrug and a sigh. Why?
We need to amend the oath of office for all elected officials to include some form of the language used when a witness is sworn in to testify in court. Something along the lines of: “I do solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole and nothing but the truth when speaking in my capacity as an elected official”. An elected official who knowingly lies, or presents information that they should have reasonably known to be false or misleading, would be guilty of perjury and subject to dismissal from office.
151
@David Eike So, what we need is a Ministry of Truth. We can put The NY Times in charge of what articles need rewriting to conform to current requirements and which need to go down the memory hole. For full instructions, see Eric Blair's guide to such matters.
@David Eike
We had this over here in UK with Boris Johnson - whose relationship with The Truth is hazy, at best.
A crowd funded court action for 'misconduct in public office' was brought. That politicians, like anybody else, have a professional responsiblity to be truthful. That honesty is prerequisite. To do otherwise is political misconduct.
You can guess what happened here, at least. No, there's nothing in English law that forces a politician to tell the truth. Because, as the High Court ruled, the public EXPECT politicians to lie through their teeth. Dishonesty can do no harm. The man in the street is protected by his natural cynicism. The crowdfunders lost their money.
Wouldn't it be great if American law actually DID have provision to force politicians to be honest?
8
@David Eike
Thank you for the splendid comment. On the day after the 2016 election, a neighbor who voted for Trump said to me, “They ALL lie.” This is what we have to face in society, in the world, and do what we must to counter the realities with all the truths we can muster.
7
There may be two different narratives but there is only one truth. We are not dealing with two metaphysical systems here, as though the Republicans have one system and the Democrats another.
Both sides are not equal and the lies being told do cause immense harm.
On one side, the Democrats respect science and the humanities and have a high regard for expertise.
On the other, the Republicans respect power and money and have become the repository of white resentment and anger.
Democrats represent a broad, more complex, base. Under their tent is welcomed the aspirations of America as expressed in the enlightened, humanitarian values of the Constitution and DoI.
What this article seems to be implying is the fact that all of this is very strange as though there is a profound reason for two narratives. There is not.
Racism, whether blatant or subtle, cannot share power with minorities. This is not something new. I never met a Holocaust denier who was open to facts. Who was the heckler who shouted at the beginning of the hearing yesterday? He was an InfoWars adherent.
All this pondering seems to gloss over the reasons behind America's polarized public.
The GOP represents a white America that looks upon the darkening of America as a threat. Their narrative is not driven by truth but by resentment.
Nadler's need to constantly gavel Collins, Gaetz, Jordan, Sensenbrenner, Biggs in the hearings was indicative of that fact.
23
It feels like truth is on trial because it is. We are in the middle of the collapse of our democratic republic. Our house is on fire and we are inside of it.
Every now and then I reread this piece by Masha Gessen, Autocracy: Rules for Survival
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/
8
Nothing to do with truth. This is a mutual partisan exercise in power. Democrats are trying to taint a sitting President ahead of the 2020 election and Republicans are dirtying Democrats in the process. There are no Profiles in courage here. The House never even voted to establish the impeachment inquiry. No one is on record. The American people see partisanship and Trump will benefit from it. Democrats for all thier faith in impeachment still weigh 2020 candidates against Trump. Acquittal in the Senate is no different than Impeachment in the House, purely a partisan exercise. Clinton's poll numbers skyrocketed after he was acquitted in the Senate. Trump will not get as big a bump but energize his base for sure.
2
@Mkm
Trump "tainted" himself. His conduct is deliberately appalling and illegal and he has repeatedly proven himself to be unfit for the office he currently holds. He needs to go. That is the truth.
Trump defenders are starting to sound like Moonies or members of the Manson family. It's grotesque.
1
As previous commenters have expressed, I am very disappointed that Mr. Baker has taken the tack that the facts are fungible. They are not. The truth exists despite the lies that man may tell to obscure a peculiar point.
I have always told my children that if you lie the truth still exists. It does not change what happened. A lie does not undo a deed or change what happened in that point in time in history and accordingly reverberations from the truth will continue to occur and impact destiny. The truth will outlast a lie. It is sad that no one has told so many of our current leaders this simple fact or truth.
13
Republicans lie because it works as an electoral strategy. Call it cynical or anything else you want to call it, until it doesn't work they will keep on keeping on.
I comment Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats in the House for drawing a line in the sand and following through on this impeachment process. They had to do it for all the right reasons. History, I believe, will be on their side in the end.
Going forward, it is our responsibility as voters who see a different America than the Republican party, to come forward in overwhelming numbers to vote representatives that reflect our vision of America into office from local statehouses all the way to the presidency.
The impeachment of Trump is necessary but the real catharsis will be the American people voting in a whole new leadership class, and that will only occur if we all get out and vote.
Go forth America and vote, the eyes of the world are upon us.
17
While slightly more nuanced , Baker ultimately resorts to the "both sides" cop out that is in itself a lie. Truth and reality exist, and it is Trump and the Republicans (and the political Right more broadly) who regularly subverts the truth. Democrats can lie and dissemble over certain things as all people do, but it is the political right, since the Reagan era, that has deliberately undermined faith in government and the news media as a long term strategy to gain and keep power. They do so because their agenda only benefits a small number of Americans, but they have to get large numbers to support and vote for them. I am so, so tired of the "both sides" fallacy. When one side is doubling down on the most delusional and counter factual fiction for baldly authoritarian ends, it is time for newspeople to call it out for what it is.
9
It was hardly a secret that invading a country 6,000 miles away whose culture was alien to western culture and the languages unknown to all but a few westerners is dangerous.
Vietnam should have made us wiser, but the US keeps making the same mistakes.
Should the US have gone after Al Qaeda? Absolutely, with force and will. But we should always learn from history and intelligently define objectives and limited goals before going in, especially avoiding "mission creep".
4
It's not just the "truth" that is on trial. It's our Constitution. With Donald Trump disregarding its "separation of powers" which act to restrain or "check" his behavior and its "rule of law" which he, his Executive branch and, most worrisome, his Congressional Republican Party are flagrantly violating, we are in grave danger of losing our democracy to the authoritarian rule of Trump. The nation has fought numerous wars from the initial Revolutionary War that set us free from authoritarian, monarchical rule to the Civil War and to World Wars I and II. Now we are in a new insidious "cold civil war" to save our Republic from Trump's authoritarian, white nationalism, and the outcome is not assured.
15
The only people who benefit from such a situation are those who do not have our nation's best interests at heart.
6
Power at a national or global level is a blood sport. Witness the murder of Khashoggi and the many S. American dissidents and investigative reporters. Gandhi, MLK, Bobby Kennedy, the list goes on and on. There's no grace or compassion in the struggle for earthly power. The deed is done and we move on.
So how can we as voters in a democracy make good choices in this blitz of lies by powerful entities with no humane ethics whatsoever? Well, we must become informed and make our best judgment. Every one of us individually is that powerful at election time. From the local level to the federal if we want a more humane world, we must work for it and vote for it.
3
Lest we forget, the tale about George Washington chopping down the cherry tree was fiction, although Washington himself was not responsible. Thomas Jefferson and his running mate Aaron Burr in the presidential election of 1800, knowingly used the partisan press to debase John Adams. Woodrow Wilson suffered a debilitating stroke in 1919, but it was kept secret while his wife ran the execute branch with the support of her husband's allies in Congress.
Clinton and Trump are certainly not the first to indulge in extramarital sex, including, but not limited to, Warren Harding, FDR, Eisenhower, and JFK, but until the past few decades, out of respect for the office of the presidency, the press colluded in keeping these affairs secret.
2
Let's be clear here. It is Trump and the Republicans who are purposefully telling lies and misleading voters, not the Democrats or the Independents. The article fails to draw out this distinction. It serves the Republicans chances of re-election by keeping people confused and propagandized with falsehoods.
Throughout this whole impeachment trial the Truth, itself, is on trial.
Not since the Civil War have our freedoms and way of life been so challenged. Our Constitution reads, "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Can an ignorant and ill-informed electorate maintain a healthy, vibrant democracy such as our own if the Truth itself is considered an enemy of the state?
15
The Democrats keep saying they want a simple story and then dragging in stuff that's irrelevant and it drives me crazy.
It undermines them and creates doubt when they should be persuading-- the whole point of the exercise.
Deviating from bulleted talking points is not an impeachable offense. Neither is meeting someone at the UN vs the White House.
But the main story keeps getting lost in weeds like these.
1
@Talbot I am going to guess that only requires a short drive.
2
We are in a battle between truth and lies, and the outcome will dictate our country’s future. Truth can only win when our institutions, and the people working in them, have the courage to stand up and fight for it. Those, including journalists, who stand up for the truth will be pilloried by the purveyors of lies. And they will have to make personal sacrifices. The civil servants who braved retaliation and testified in impeachment hearings, the whistleblower, the inspectors general at the intelligence community, and DOJ, are just the most recent examples. They deserve the respect and support of all Americans, they are on the frontlines in the fight to save our democracy.
97
@Mike Alexander : I could not agree more!
1
Nation before Party is increasingly elusive.
Today, that solemn oath rings hollow at best.
How President Putin must be loving this.
22
Republicans are lying to save their skins. We all do at some
point. A matter of Self service and nothing to do with serving the country.
Hint: Hound Trump on one lie for weeks until he pops.
6
None of this competition for the better story would be possible without Fox News, a direct line for the repetition and wide dispersal of Republican talking points.
The Democratic impeachment effort is nothing less than an attempt to re-establish some kind of standard for the application of sequential thinking and fact in public discourse. This in a world where the lie is already half way round the world as the truth. . .
It is Trump's singular gift as a showman to exemplify political sincerity through lying and relentless hyperbole. It isn't much more than iconoclasm, but the message of sticking it to the intellectuals and the whiners plays very well in flyover country. He understands public perceptions of the "gotcha" media and exploits this bias brilliantly. But without a dedicated cable channel to amplify his manic tweeting, his power to persuade and punish would be greatly limited.
Democrats talk a lot about the judgement of history while Republicans do whatever is needed to win their own news cycle. Ron Suskind quoted a Bush aid who sounded a lot like Karl Rove as saying that, "a judicious study of discernible reality," is "not the way the world works anymore."
Mr. Baker's larger story is whether Democratic lawmakers, law professors and historians can have any more influence than a judicious study of reality, while "history's actors" continue to bend the world to their narrative.
15
The shaken faith in institutions, such as business, government and church, is not a problem. That's something one should expect, as a natural thing. It is fantasy to believe that any man-made institution is free from man's weaknesses.
The ideological wedge is how best to confront these issues. On issues of government, where people actually wield power one approach is to improve government and try to fix problems of trust. A competing approach is to simply dismantle or hobble government to the point where it is not useful or trustworthy.
Why so many of the electorate fall to the side of dismantling government functions as a solution with no clear alternative is a national crisis. The party of governmental nihilists have created a public narrative where even basic facts are not agreed on. This is not an accident. It's been fomented by decades of an alternative government saying the mainstream government is not to be trusted, an alternative news outlet saying the mainstream news is not to be trusted, alternative education, saying mainstream education is not to be trusted.
9
Times
In a 24/7 world, successfully competing to sell content has become more important than truth. Influencers of all stripes are driven to achieve face time at any cost and recognize that the most outrageous stories garner the most clicks, likes, eyeballs and airtime. It is a money-making machine that thrives on and exploits our insatiable appetite for entertainment and for validation of our own narrative. It also undermines our democracy and our society. We have the power to stop, but will we?
3
If there is no truth, there can be no lies.
If there is no reality, there can be only virtual reality.
America is at a crossroads very much like 1860.
Defeat Donald Trump and all the gold-plated emptiness and mean-spirited rage he thrives upon.......
or lose American democracy and the individual decency and shared freedoms that once sustained us all.
19
By failing to point out the overwhelmingly one-sided nature of this deception, and writing instead of "counter narratives," the author only continues to give cover to the GOP. The mainstream media's determination to always present a false balance, allows it to avoid the fact that only one of our political parties is willing to say anything, no matter how false, if such lies will help it hold onto power. In a two party system, that could prove fatal to a democracy. The Times needs to confront this grim reality, instead of masking it behind a endless tide of he said/she said-style coverage. If our journalistic institutions will not defend the truth, who will?
38
@James Spot on! It’s high time for the mainstream media (including this paper!) to stop this false equanimity and call themRep’s narrative what it is: LIES. The article’s title seemed to go there, but backed away from spelling it out.
8
@James I have made a comment similar to yours, and wish I could recommend yours a thousand times. We would not be in the situation we are in if the press had not indulged in its false equivalencies for the last several decades.
1
Truth, like art and beauty, are in the eye of the beholder.
@Raven Actually, no. Certain things happened (like aid being withheld from Ukraine) - or didn't happen. People said certain things (like, "I'd like you to do me a favor, though") or didn't. What happened, or what was said, are facts, and constitute the truth, regardless of what the beholder believes.
1
@Rena
There are no facts only interpretations.
An example:
The Justice Dept. I.G. report that the Trump cult has been touting for months goes POOF with this: "conclusions deny a clear-cut vindication for Trump's supporters or critics. It rejects theories and criticism spread by Trump and his supporters."
Trump, then repeats his lie and claims that the report showed “an attempted overthrow and a lot of people were in on it.” And the cult's faith is restored once again. Confirming the they are indeed a true cult.
13
The President's clothes are beautiful, aren't they? I've never seen such fabric of glowing quality, a silky, flowing cascade that makes him look like a king. Aren't they wonderful? Aren't the king's clothes grand?
12
@Bonnie Huggins Yup - and they’re becoming more transparent as we speak...
3
The phrase “merely true” used to be ironic understatement. In today’s Idiocracy, a Trump-besotted Disunited States, it can be applied literally. That truth no longer guides judgment terrifies me. See Hannah Arendt:
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is ... people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.”
She rightly predicted in 1950 that far from being defeated, authoritarian and totalitarian tendencies, fed by racial and ethnic hatred, would continue to undermine the universal brotherhood (and sisterhood) of man. The division we are experiencing as a nation is a kind of lie, akin to the most monstrous lie of all: that some of us are inferior, dirty, subhuman, evil, enemies of the state, etc. It is this sort of thinking to which the GOP and its Great Leader, together with (many, though not all) American evangelicals, white nationalists, and others have succumbed.
I will never call these people evil or the enemy. But they are deluded intellectually, and spiritually sick. Out of respect for their innate humanity, we owe it to them to oppose them with every reasonable means: the Constitution, the rule of law, fair and free elections, and yes, the mere truth. That strategy may prove ineffective in the near term; but the alternatives—acquiescence or all-out civil war?—I cannot bear to contemplate.
9
The greatest frustration from this reader's perspective is the inability of responsible members of the media to deal with the false equivalency. While Democrats are frantically trying to establish the facts and Republican ex-pats are rending there clothing, Trumpians are enthusiastically creating their own facts that are reported as if they are legitimate. Governments always struggle with transparency, they don't always rob their citizenry blind.
4
It seems to me that the oddest thing about this whole impeachment is that the Democrats are impeaching Trump, while the Republicans are impeaching Biden, even before he gets elected. I hope they give him three years to try to clean up the mess before they actually try to impeach him for beating Trump
3
Isn't this exactly what Putin wanted? To see the threads of democracy and trust in our system unravel? To watch seeds of doubts flourish? Politicians care about their own survival and loyalty to the tribe is a means to that end. How hypocritical that they tolerate the unethical behavior of the President to achieve their political goals. How ironic and sad that as Articles of Impeachment are to be announced our President is meeting with the Sergei Lavrov. Putin must be the happiest man on the planet.
13
The Corporate Owned Government of The United States of America, united wholly 24/7/365 in corruption, lying, stealing the livelihood of the poor and the middle-class, and constantly engaged in the promulgation of conflict and war, worldwide, to the detriment of people everywhere, all for the financial gain of the Corporate Owned Government of The United States of America.
That reasonably sums up reality today, in our once revered United States.
9
In a democracy, the illusions of truth are often veiled beneath the shadows where manipulation is easily forged and often forgotten. Trump, as hard as he tries, continues his charade of lies and miscalculations on a daily basis to thwart the light that chases after him. The man is obviously having a terrible time living under such scrutiny...
1
I truly do not know if Trump is an evil genius or just a pure con man that pursues everything for his own advantage. Either way, our country and the world are being destroyed. Forget climate change worries, democratic norms are disappearing and there will only be bedlam in the future.
8
This is becoming like Groundhog's Day. Each morning a new dispiriting example of the Times trying to equate "both sides." Ironically, this piece by Peter Baker is itself a prime example of how the search for objective truth has been lost. It is not a political judgment but a fact that the Republican defense of President Trump has been built on falsehoods. The paper of record should be reporting this as such, not claiming that "each person or party entertains only their own preferred variant."
33
@WMB YES! Thank you for this pithy summation!!!
5
Quite simply, Donald Trump is completely unqualified to be President by virtue of character, intellect, temperament, and experience, and had been since day one. He attained this position with the aid of Putin, who must of been ecstatic at this turn of events, and Trump has mis-governed in a manner that has exponentially benefited Russian ambition, and deteriorated those of the US and our Allies. He has consistently attempted to disregard law, and appears ignorant of the Constitution, and these actions have escalated on a daily basis, and no matter how egregious, these actions have been glossed over, accepted, and even defended by his enablers and his base, to the detriment of our rights, and the continued existence of our Democracy. His attempt to extort Ukraine into interfering in the 2020 election is unquestionably an impeachable offense. Even his most rabid defenders cannot dispute that. Their defense has evolved into obstruction by refusing to honor subpoenas, and denying Trump said what he said, or his henchmen did what they did, which is remarkable in light of the overwhelming evidence presented under oath. I was particularly offended by the Republican lawyer who stated this Impeachment was simply predicated on 8 lines in a phone call. Well if those lines are incriminating, as in requesting an illegal action that is important evidence. In a murder trial, a phone call of 8 lines with the suspect asking, “I need a favor, would you kill my wife”, would be a slam dunk.
15
Quote of the day: "Mr. Trump is hardly the first dissembler in the White House. Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard M. Nixon were famously talented liars, and Bill Clinton was the first president ever found by a court to have testified falsely under oath. But what Mr. Trump lacks in finesse, he makes up in volume."
4
Stop everyone referring to the famous telephone call as a “transcript “. It is a summary no doubt doctored by the administration. I want to read the contents of the call which has been hidden on a secret server.
21
@Jordan Davies The “transcript” released says at the top that it’s not a verbatim transcript. The summary or memo is full of ellipses, cutting off part of what trump said to Zelensky.
Trump has lied so much over things both big and small that I don believe anything he says. I’m just truly shocked that Republicans, especially Congressmen and Senators, are willing to also spout Trump’s lies. Our country is in a dangerous state when truth no longer matters.
15
sorry but this false equivalency argument is tired. the lies are pouring out of Trump and the GOP. they are not emanating anywhere from the democratic side. The truth is a powerful thing and lies are fragile and weak. Americans who are not self deluded see the truth and I think that is a majority so stop the hand wringing.
16
I couldn’t agree more. The truth matter above all and our leaders on both sides have forgotten that. This country needs leadership we all need to be deal makers, not extremists.
2
“An impeachment hearing on Capitol Hill presented radically competing versions of reality.”
Not exactly. Democrats presented a version of reality. Republicans presented a perversion of reality.
39
This is how the American era ends.
4
It takes two to have an argument but only one to misrepresent the truth. Talking to you GOP.
11
Another both-sides-do-it fairy tale.
8
There is a parallel here. #1- If the president is accused and impeached based on the act of demanding a favor for money, isn't that the same as lobbyists who contribute thousands of dollars to elected officials in return for a voting 'favor'? #2- Who is the most invested in keeping this truth away from the American public?
3
We've read so much about all this for too long now. Postman, Hedges, Manjoo and others have illuminated the postmodern era. From the Improbable World, to the Spectacle, to True Enough. Now, what are we going to do about it?
2
The trial for truth was held on January 20th, 1981, when Ronald Reagan became the 40th President of the United States. In case you weren't paying attention, the jury (the American people) voted in favor of lies and against truth. (See Iran Contra, see Iraq War Invasion, see Afghanistan in today's NYT, see Libya, Syria, Yemen, etc., etc., etc. )
Truth's fall from grace and complete delegitimisation in the US has been of great convenience to both major US parties, to the major media (TV and print) and to the .01 percent that owns them all. The truth has been absent from our lives for so long that I doubt we'd recognize it if it walked up and slapped us in the face.
5
Hate to be Malthusian, but does any of this matter on an Earth dead from climate change?
4
Don't speak of facts.
Reagan taught us that "truth" was relative. Cutting taxes didn't lower deficits. Quite the opposite. We reelected him anyway.
Bush continued the GOP tradition and added a pointless war against a country which didn't attack us. Lied. We reelected him anyway.
We are the fools.
5
Apparently, lying is one of the eight heavenly virtues. Along with envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, and wrath.
Now I know why Trump ticks all the boxes for evangelicals. Always easier to change the rules than abide by them. I might just sign up myself.
5
Transitioning to a choose your own adventure format?
It's telling that the 2 people quoted specifically for this story — about how nobody trusts anybody and "radically competing versions of reality" — are a former strategic adviser to President George W. Bush and Ben Domenech, the founder of The Federalist.
7
“Most Americans tell pollsters that they do not believe what (Trump) says, but a significant minority considers him a truth-teller in a broader sense, saying out loud what others will not about a broken system he vows to fix, even if he does not hew to particular facts.”
I don’t doubt people consider him a truth-teller in a broader sense it’s just that he hasn’t done diddly to fix anything. It’s like hiring Ronald McDonald to do your open-heart surgery; you like cheeseburgers, you (mystifyingly) like clowns but you don’t like doctors because they are “arrogant know-it-all’s”. This reasoning completely misses the fact that Ronald McDonald has no experience doing surgery of any kind - in fact he is a fictional persona that actually peddles products that aggravate the conditions that lead to open-heart surgery.
There are more similarities between Donald
Trump and Ronald McDonald than there are Donald Trump and say, Benjamin Franklin. That’s the truth!
15
No it’s the Constitution that’s on trial and it’s the Democrats who are attacking it
@Michael Livingston’s
Please explain exactly how Democrats are attacking the Constitution by taking the long needed step of holding Trump accountable for extreme abuse of power and violation of the Constitution. I eagerly await your facts.
@Michael Livingston - How are the Democrats “attacking” the Constitution? That is a very sweeping charge, particularly in view of the topic of the article being truth and lies in contemporary politics. It is easy to pop off an accusation but you really do need to provide some supporting argument. Otherwise it is a waste of time and space.
Truth is not on trial here. Liars and crooks are on trial. That's not hard to see is it?
3
Your column hits the proverbial nail on the head.
I'm reminded of a poem by Czeslaw Milosz that ends,
" The history of my stupidity will not be written.
For one thing, it’s late. And the truth is laborious."
Truth is always on trial, and it was in its defense that Socrates ate hemlock and pride trumps truth. Loyalty to falsehood trumps disloyalty. Wealthy people are always disappointing because they should be better than the rest of us and they just ain't. Most of us didn't think Trump would win. We were wrong. What are we to think about our thinking now?
1
Classic example of normalizing outlandish behavior: “Mr. Trump is hardly the first dissembler in the White House. Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard M. Nixon were famously talented liars...” @NYTEditor are you kidding me? Trump lies with impunity- daily, with every utterance. There is NO comparable here.
8
Denying the truth and showing in pride in lies presented as "alternative facts" is the Republican's way to go.
The saddest thing about it is that it has worked very well in the past for the Nazis and now it seems to be working for them.
7
Peter: No mention of Fox News and their alternatives to facts and truth?? Imagine where we would be today if Rupert Murdoch had never been born and all of us still got our TV news from CBS, NBC, and ABC.
7
Barr is racking up almost as many lies as trump has to his credit ( all fact checked). Are there any republicans left who can tell the truth and not shake in their boots out of fear of what disgusting name trump will come up with to demean them. Then our great distractor spent quite a bit of time exposing the water problems with the bathrooms in the WH. If this weren't so pathetic it would be hysterical.
4
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
The Goebbellian Orwellian Poppycock party has made their bed by lying for a living from morning til night about science, contraception, economics, the Birther Lie, and their blind support for nation's most prolific liar.
This strategy didn't work well for the Weimar Republic.
It won't work well for the American republic.
Wake up, America.
Vote these gaslighters out on November 3 2020.
68
It used to be that lies were B.A.D. To be caught in a lie was humiliating for a person and caused shame.
In the Trump Era, lies are valued. It's "catch me if you can, sucka!"
Oh, please take me back to those halcyon days when truth was valued! Truth for Truth's sake!
1
Yes, the American people have been fed a constant diet of lies. I am very sorry to have to say this, but the fault for that lies squarely on the heads of the mainstream news media, including this newspaper. You have all allowed Donald Trump to use you, but he is not the first, nor is he the worst. Bush and Cheney invented a cause for war out of whole cloth and you sold that garbage to us with earnest enthusiasm and unanimity, ignoring clear evidence of their lies. Mistrust of the media, like a cancer on our democracy, was the logical result.
Covering up those lies, covering up the torture and covering up the crimes committed by Wall Street which led to the Great Recession has metastasized the cancer.
Look in the mirror. Insist on telling the truth to your corporate bosses or board members. That's the cure.
4
>>it has become axiomatic in the era of “alternative facts” that each person or party entertains only their own preferred variant<<
"Both-siderism" at its worst. The Democrats were adhering to facts and evidence while the Republicans were indulging one conspiracy theory after another. Shame on this columnist.
6
@Lord Melonhead Bravo. Well said.
When I am having discussion with someone and what are the facts come into question, I wonder about the person's ability to discern fact from fiction. So, I might ask, "Well, how old is the earth?" and if they reply, "5,000/6,000 years old", I'll ask about how they explain the existence of dinosaur fossils. Then they say, "God put them there to test my faith" and I just say, "This conversation is over. You are insane."
3
Saddam has WMDs!
5
Disappointed to see the Times struggle for balance. There is no balance on with Putin or against Putin. Republicans are delusional and only want to maintain power even if that mean becoming Putin’s puppets. To think that emails were so scandalous and now look we are, nothing short of treason
12
Why can we not get the full transcript that is in the secret White House vault??
6
I am sick and I am tired of reading that Trump is wrong on issues or “morally bankrupt”. Do none of you know what a psychopath is? Do none of you know how dangerous it is to have in power a man whose brain developed aberrantly, who does not, and never has, cared about anyone but himself?
Can’t you just look at Trump’s facial expressions, his archetypical psychopath smirk, to realize that something important is awry?
Trump scores at least 35 on the Hare Psychopath Test - an extreme psychopath, with irrational intentions extremely different from those you imagine from a fellow human being.
8
@Charlierf Yes. I cannot understand how anyone can listen to this person speak for more than a few minutes and not reach the conclusion that something is seriously - very seriously - wrong with him.
3
@Charlierf When I show film footage of Mussolini when we talk about the rise of Fascism, students are immediately struck by, and comment on, the similarity of body language to Trump. It is the malignant narcissism showing itself.
1
I find it so puzzling and alarming that so many Republican members of Congress are now touting the very “disinformation” that Putin and other Russians target at USA.
How can Republicans be so willing to further promote these falsehoods that actually are Russian propaganda created simply to weaken American unity?
Are the Republicans really so afraid of a Trump that they will embrace the false conspiracy theories?
155
@Jean Good questions. Maybe there are two or more answers. One would look at people like Louie Gohmert. Not a young man, but formed in Texas. Another, Max Gaetz. born in Florida, formed by the Gingrich philosophy and the anti-Obama and Tea Party mindsets. No functional realpolitik or international politics brain. Doug Collins and Jim Jordan? Who would expect rationality from them?
18
@Jean
Always "follow the money". When you consider how much Russian campaign cash apparently flowed through the NRA to Republican candidates, their reactions, while despicable, are less surprising. So many willing to sell out their country, and for so little money, in so many cases! Vote 'em out.
10
@Jean the answer to your last question is yes.
5
"This was an overthrow of government, this was an attempted overthrow -- and a lot of people were in on it."
That was Donald's initial reaction to the IG report yesterday. I don't know how much more divorced from reality a person could get than that. He knows that if he starts off with the biggest and most brazen lie possible, that anything will be acceptable from his sycophants in the administration and at Fox news. He isn't just lying, he is setting the tone and giving permission for everyone under him to do the same. They know what is expected and have their marching orders. No matter how egregious their lies are, they probably won't match him in their audacity.
126
@Rick Let's not forget that Trump doesn't read. He just takes impressions of things as reported by Fox. He has no idea what's in all these documents.
7
@Rick "This was an overthrow of government, this was an attempted overthrow -- and a lot of people were in on it."
That is a perfect description of trump's election to the presidency and subsequent administration. There has been a coup of the U. S. government by the right wing of the republican party and Russia. The sooner the American people put an end to this madness, the better.
9
@Rick And he is always accusing others what he does himself - so this accusation of his is very revealing.
5
When science, facts, and truth are too difficult to take?
Make up your own reality.
There is no room for truth and facts in a dysfunctional, incompetent administration.
74
@Ed Mahala You forgot "corrupt."
8
@Ed Mahala
Remember the CIA lies about Iraqi WMD.
And have you heard/read about the Washington Post reporting on all the lies about the US war in Afghanistan during the Bush, Obama and Trump administration. At least Trump has said that the war in Afghanistan was/is worthless. A truth from him that made Washington angry.
I sense that many understandably cynical people voted for Trump because he brashly,crudely speaks back to the powerful.
Sometimes he is speaking truth to power, as he when he has reminded us that the FBI and the CIA lie, which of course they do.
The Barr/Durham report may reveal that much of what Trump rants about, relative to the CIA/FBI being out to get him, may be true.
Washington is a huge,festering boil that needs to burst, cleansed, and a way forward found, with laws that better control the CIA/FBI... another Church committee is desperately needed.
Perhaps things had to get this bad in Washington, before citizens, Republican and Democrat, would realize that the CIA/FBI need to change... as does much else in Washington and its media.
@Lucy Cooke, considering Barr's reaction to the truth contained in this report, my guess is that the Durham "report" will probably not be worth the paper it's printed on.
2
I watched some of the hearings on Monday. And I support the Democrats.
But I kept hearings things that had me asking, why did they do that?
For example, one Republican said they had requested documents a month ago, and the Democrats dumped 8000 pages on them on Saturday, 48 hours before the hearing.
I kept hearing that Ukraine's president didn't get a White House meeting--but he apparently did get a meeting with Trump at the UN.
I heard about all the ways Republicans were accommodated and treated equally, but then I heard a litany of things that they couldn't do apparently unlike the Democrats and any previous similar hearings.
Were those statements true? If so, why did the Democrats do things to undermine their credibility? It left me very confused.
2
@Talbot: One could try and rebut every one of the picayune points you made, but...to underscore Peter Baker’s thesis...you wouldn’t believe me. So I’ll focus on only one: “I support the Democrats”. I. Don’t. Believe. You. (Peter Baker again).
3
@Talbot
I’m very cautious of anyone stating the party affiliations in the first paragraph. It’s most likely there of the other
3
@Talbot Here is the reality test - are you hearing how the Republicans are being "unfairly " treated from the same sources that are supporting the more blatant Republican lies? Evaluate your sources!
1
Much, maybe all, of what we hear is some distorted version of reality. Maybe half of it is true. But it is hard to tell which half.
1
@Noley , actually it is really not hard to tell which side is telling the truth. Just reading the short summary of the July 25 phone call shows in Trump's own words that he was shaking down the President of Ukraine for his own personal political gain - then you can move on the mountain of testimony, and then further to the Mueller report, and on and on. All it takes is the ability to read a fair amount, learn to evaluate reliable sources, and use some critical thinking skills. That a majority of the American people and many of our elected officials are not able, or willing, to do that is the real danger.
"While truth was deemed an endangered species in the nation’s capital long before President Trump’s arrival, it has become axiomatic in the era of “alternative facts” that each person or party entertains only their own preferred variant, resisting contrary information."
No. The GOP entertains only their own "alternative facts." The Democrats deal with actual facts. Enough with the "both sides do it." There is only one party who is dealing in wholesale lies.
30
Mr. Baker,
I have to take issue with the tenor of your article. Perhaps it's my jaundiced ears but you make it sound as if the Democrats have their variation of the truth while the Republican theirs. From where I stand nothing could be further... yes I know. The Democratic party as a rule generally adheres to the truth. The Republicans used to, but no more, at least as far as it comes to enabling Trump.
19
@CA John The Democrats keep saying Ukraine's president never got a White House meeting with Trump. And the Republicans keep saying he met with Trump at the UN. And my head keeps spinning.
1
There's the truth and then there's Trump's truth, which is what he wants America to believe.
This is a test of the American public to see if they can tell the difference between reality and Trump's TV reality.
4
It seems some of the Republican “players” have started to believe their own lies. Either that or they simply can no longer distinguish between lies and truth.
This article quotes Corey Lewandowski giving testimony to Congress saying, “I have no obligation to have a candid conversation with the media whatsoever, just like they have no obligation to cover me honestly, and they do it inaccurately all the time.”
That is saying, “If I believe someone is lying to me then I am perfectly justified in lying to them”. The misdeeds of others is never a justification for one’s own misdeeds. This is the utter abandonment of personal responsibility for your own actions. It is also a statement of abandoning all moral codes of behaviour.
Have we actually entered a Twilight Zone in which all Republican commitment to moral behaviour has been abandoned or is it just Mr. Lewandowski?
If we can all foreswear moral behaviour because of media inaccuracies, we have abandoned all hope, indeed. Let us hope and pray that Mr. Lewandowski finds enlightenment on his own personal road to Damascus, or we are all lost to the light.
9
Once upon a time we were admonished during public discourse that while “You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.” Today, apparently, not only are we entitled to our own facts, but also we are entitled to our own “alternative facts.” It is one thing when politicians support their narratives with dueling facts: “The economy has grown 2% in the last year” vs. “The economy has contracted 1% in the last six months.” It is another thing entirely to endless repeat, ”the economy has grown 3% in the last year,” when by all objective measures it simply has not.
When I was young, I had a friend who loved professional wrestling. When I told him that it was all fake, his response was that it was “realer than real.” While many Trump supporters may recognize that what Trump says may not be factual, to them his words convey a larger truth. One result of this situation is that Republican politicians must constantly try to reverse engineer an acceptable explanation for why Trump said what we said or did what we did. Thus we are meant to believe that Trump’s concern was endemic corruption in Ukraine and lack of NATO support for the country rather than a desire to make it appear that Ukraine rather than Russia was the primary meddler in our election and to weaken Joe Biden as a potential opponent. In the end, it is hard to solve problems when the basis for your solution is what you wish the circumstances to be rather than what they really are.
2
I recall another man who asked “what is truth”. The circumstances in which he asked it, and of whom, ought to give pause to anyone else who questions objective reality.
2
A big part of this 'truth' problem is that too many people wrongly assume that truth is just another term for 'fact'- that's... well, not true. Truth is actually a value judgement were facts are placed into a context. Facts are bent and honed and sometimes falsified to deliver a narrative of truth. We are in a period where an urban, educated America is at odds with the more rural, tradition based America who's visions of 'truth' are quite different. Too many people seem willing sleep with the Devil to indulge prophecy- it's quite scary.
2
All this dialog, print and social media promoting disinformation. It's time members of Congress, the Senate and Justices put aside their party loyalties and dig deep into their conscious, look ahead and think about our future generations.
The greatest generation left us boomers with country on the right track. I ask what will be our legacy.. Is it generation that ruined our democracy?
Let’s cure this disease that is tearing up apart.
1
The assault on truth is perpetuated by even respectable media outlets like the NYT when they continue with false equivalence narratives like those found in this article. For the most part, it is NOT the case that both sides "entertain only their preferred variants." As any honest person can see from the impeachment debate, the story of Trump's corruption advanced by the Democrats is clearly supported by the evidence. The shifting defenses proffered by Republicans are disingenuous, contradictory, and frequently nonsensical.
And so it goes on issue after issue (see. e.g., climate change). Democrats, to a significant extent, are attempting to govern based on an objective reality that often demonstrates that traditionally Republican policies not only do not work but make most people's lives worse. Republicans, historically unable or unwilling to respond to any new situation with anything other than tax cuts and deregulation, and facing negative demographic trends, prefer alternative facts to honest debate. The Fox News network was invented to serve this purpose and there is simply no equivalent on the left.
So, NYT, please do not make the situation worse by suggesting that what we have is just a partisan stand off with equivalent bad behavior on both sides. This only contributes to the preferred right wing narrative that government is inherently incompetent and untrustworthy. Balance is not giving equal time to competing claims. It is sorting truth from falsehood.
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Watching the impeachment hearing yesterday, the lawyer for the GOP and their representatives who questioned him did nothing to elevate their points of view to any level of credible fact.
Opportunities to be truthful were met with curveball answers intended to mislead. With the public watching, it appeared that all they sought was obfuscation to hide the failure of this presidency to act with an acceptable level of candour, honesty or interest in our national security or fair election process.
The GOP's rantings about due process is a sad joke intended to mislead the public. They have had every opportunity yet have done nothing to move the truth forward. The GOP is doubling down on lies and manipulation of the public trust. Their clear motive is obstruction and obfuscation, making them equally guilty of a level of self-interest rather than national security interest that poisons our democracy.
9
I guess the only question open on this subject is which is worse, the quantity of the lies or the weight of them. The public has been lied to constantly since the Vietnam fiasco and tragedy. The blatancy of the lies is overwhelming and accompanied by the almost constant appearance of impropriety leaves the politicians untrustworthy in the minds of the public. One wag recently said he was not concerned about the millionaires running for office so much as he was about the non-millionaires who run, win and retire millionaires. Of course, that has been amplified to billionaires.
1
Peter Baker is a master of leveling. Take this Latest which is The Last Word in his article:
“In an atomized age,” said Mr. Domenech, “that allows individuals to retreat to their own story lines, fantasies and tales in which their tribe is always good or under attack, and the other always craven and duplicitous.”
Baker then with a glib and subjective flourish says That is a truth Trump can live with.
The Federalist Society becomes by default The Speaker of Truth. I also object to people being described as belonging to “tribes”. That’s fantasy not truth.
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@Moses Cat Yes, the "both sides" line always endings up to the benefit of the right wing - no coincidence, that is by design.
1
This analysis veers towards wanting to be "bothsidism" and "leaders-have -always-lied-to-us-ism" which is also to blame. There is no strong enough telling of the unequivocal truth versus unbelievable lying. So careful the media has been at a loss to finally say the words lying, false, misleading until this was ridiculously lacking.
Trump's is a matter of quantity and degree (lying about vital matters) in these comparisons. This is why the public does not trust even the media.
Now Trump and his enablers have advanced to leaving reality altogether at the station as they push forward. See Trump's reaction to the IG report an outburst in total denial of what it said.
Keep repeating, with conviction, the "clear and present danger" this is.
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Interesting to watch politicians, like Jim Jordan, shout and protest against the truth. Interesting to watch any politician search for the truth. Voters need to realize that Trump never, ever tells the truth. His self interest guides him totally. Also interesting to watch anyone from the Bush administration complain about a lack of truth in Government. Their lack of truth over the Mideast cost thousands of lives and continues a tragic reality for many living over there as well as the grieving and wounded here. In the same vein, Trump and Republican’s current disregard for the truth is going to cost us valuable time needed to save our planet. The health and lives of many are already hurt by unfair Governmental health and justice policies and will be adversely and more profoundly affected by continued inaction on climate change. We really don’t have time for the liars and denials. While these politicians shout against the truth, people suffer.
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I want political libel laws. I don’t understand why it’s more of a crime to lie to congress than for congress people to lie.
There is no independent arbiter of truth as is or consequences for being found to have lied. It’s infuriating.
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Point is the truth is the truth. Saying that it is the perception of the truth is a false equivalence. Let us take an easy one, with global warming where there is data available to prove that we are living in an era where global temperatures and moving higher. To just say it is a hoax is denying the fact that the data exists and analysis of the data is falsely compared to the weather: It snowed in late April or we saw a very bad winter storms this November. The data is available to prove otherwise. Here in the US the groups which still want to use fossil fuels, push false equivalences to further their goals and not do anything about global warming. The GOP is hand -in-glove with the fossil fuel industry and pushes these false equivalences to further their agenda to remain in power. That there is money to be made when using fossil fuels also drives some of these falsehoods. That an entire GOP party can abandon the truth and data is what is most concerning. To the GOP it is just another day of politics. Now they have a liar-in-chief who can lead them up that mountain of falsehoods.
16
This is so completely frustrating for those of us who use different sources to determine the truth. When sources are seen to ignore evidence or to manufacture their own truth, THEY NEED TO BE CALLED OUT. Continuing to give a pass to fox news or other conservative purveyors of lies and make believe does not stop our descent into anarchy. Our existence as a democracy depends on stopping this spread of lies and alternative facts. Barr, et al who spread falsehoods need to be confronted.
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Being an American living in the UK, I see the spread of Trumpism in the antics of Boris Johnson and I despair.
Two of the most important countries in the western world are jeopardising their democracies by accepting lying politicians and a distorting press (Brexit- exhibit 1)
Something has to be done, but what?
26
Can’t we find four reasonable politicians on each side of the isle to start a dialogue, away from Washington and the media.
The way people like Jordan, Gaetz, Collins, Meadows, Nadler, Schiff and many more deal with the situation makes matters only worse. It needs senior Democrats and Republicans to jump over their own shadow and make a start. Sounds easy, doesn’t it?
2
@UB ...Senior Democrats and Republicans are who created the whole mess in the first place. I’d have more confidence in newbies any day except that very often they are unelectable due to their inability to buck an intrenched and corrupt system. We are seeing that now with a Senate in lockstep protecting a (probably treasonous) serial felon in order to further its own party agenda.
@UB
I disagree with your characterization of Schiff and Nadler as being the same as all the republican committee members.
Those two are trying to be civil in the face of disruptions, lies, and debunked conspiracy theories deliberately thrown in to confuse those that will get their news from Fox later that evening.
Not perfect, but nowhere near Jordan, Collins, Gaetz et al.
4
@UB Lumping in Schiff and Nadler who are trying to get to the truth, with Gaetz, Jordan, etc who are trying to subvert the truth makes you part of the problem.
1
It used to be a feeling of embrace going to DC. Our country, our promise there were people there who would try to make our lives fruitful, honorable, American.
Now, I have no desire to even go back. It’s like a toxic poison, a very thick one now, has been spread in the clouds there and the fallout just trickles down, day by day.
Guess we were really mistaken.
3
Oh My God. In a piece intended to discuss the tragedy of how truth is a casualty these days, the NYT, once again, both sides us to death. Please, it is vital that you actually state the truth - it is the Republican Party who has become totally invested in gaslighting the American people into believing up is down, black is white, we have always been at war with East Asia, Trump did not pressure a foreign nation to announce investigations into his political rival by withholding official acts, and the Mueller report was a hoax/witch hunt. It is YOUR JOB to report the actual truth, not be stenographers giving "both sides" of the political divide equal time. I don't know what has happened to your domestic political coverage, but you would never cover arts, or sports, or local politics this way. It is killing country, and you have a responsibility to knock it off. Watching the hearing yesterday was surreal, and your coverage of the hearing and the impeachment as a whole has been a clinic in obfuscating the truth so that you can provide your sainted "balance". It isn't balanced; it's just not the truth.
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@AMinNC
It seems to me that the NYT has fully reported -- and indeed help uncover -- facts regarding all of the lies and malfeasance perpetrated by Trump/GOP.
This piece accurately describes the dangerous consequences of lies and misinformation, regardless of source. Denying that some degree of that behavior exists on both sides -- even when there is not qualitative/quantitative equivalence -- is not helpful.
For example, not objectively acknowledging that both parties are complicit in obscuring the truth about the war in Afghanistan would simply give Trump/GOP a valid reason to site bias.
I appreciate your frustration, but unflinching adherence/pursuit of truth is the best path. Pretending we have no faults destroys our credibility when calling out the faults of others.
1
@Darrel Quoting Ben Domenech, the founder of The Federalist, on any topic is a ludicrous choice for a reporter trying to make the argument that Baker is making. There is no doubt that both D and R administrations have misled the public regarding Afghanistan, but the broader topic of Trump and his sycophants in the GOP is not open for debate among anyone with a hint of objectivity.
1
The argument that "all the politicians lie" needs to be crushed. Of course, we all cherry pick our facts to make our points.
But the Republicans have become masters of manipulation when it comes to spinning information. Atty Gen Barr's most recent comments about the Russia report speak to how dangerously close to Orwellian double speak we are. He did the same with the Mueller report and we let him get away with it.
In a world where the attorney general acts like the presidents personal attorney and his personal attorney runs the presidents personal foreign policy/election campaign, Trump has embraced totalitarian governance.
We are on the brink of becoming a fascist state. And anyone complicit with this path is a traitor to our democracy and is spitting on the graves of our founders.
44
@Bob Bruce Anderson I so strongly agree - it always strikes me that whenever I hear someone say "all politicians lie" it is in support of the most lying and criminal politicians from Nixon to Trump. The "both sides" argument seem just a more sophisticated version of that line, that ultimately serves the interests of the most mendacious pubic officials. As for Barr - it is time the House begin an impeachment inquiry on him - he is clearly abusing his office by furthering the criminal conspiracy that is the Trump administration.
5
I suggest a new name for one of our political parties...”the Misinformation Party formerly known as the Republican Party”. They have forfeited the right to be called Republican until they show signs of supporting a constitutional republic.
13
One truth emerges, despite the 13,000+ lies coming from trump, he could indeed shoot someone on 5th Ave. NYC and still have the support he now gets, not only from the base but as witnessed in the impeachment hearings on Monday the wholehearted support and defense from the republicans of this thoroughly corrupt man. Have they no decency. Disagreement can be well respected, but republican behavior within the hearing room resembled more a pack of junk yard pit bulls. Baying and howling their distractions.
28
Mr. Lewondoski needs to do more than make an accusation. Which news agency made what assertion that was false sir?
Mr. Trump made the accusation that Obama used the federal apparatus to "spy" on him. Millions were spent investigating that accusation. Mr. Trump was proven to have lied. Yet here we are, Mr. Trump is making that same lie again!
The only people confused about the facts prove themselves to be poorly read, and or incapable of critical thought. Discerning the truth from the facts presented by the credible media is not in any manner difficult.
18
Corruption of respect for fact is now the legacy of Sinclair Broadcast Group and Fox “News” as well as Trump and his groveling followers, but that is the end result of a very long history of it being socially acceptable for half of Americans to lie about a thoroughly establish fact of physical reality - Creationism is the mother of really fake news. I do not think that most people understand how corrupting this has been to ethics and morality for so many to get away with - and even get approval for - acceptance of a myth as “fact” about physical reality because it fits a religious narrative.
10
"Mr. Trump, whose myriad false statements and public lies have been extensively cataloged, hardly caused this phenomenon by himself, but he exemplifies it better than anyone else. He is the Rorschach test of truth - - "
Mr. Baker, by your statement, and claim to be a "reporter", you make quite a strong case for yourself as a Rorschach test of truth - - -
1
And there you have it. Exactly what the article is talking about, applying the fog of distrust to someone you disagree with, as opposed to arguing on the merits.
2
@Michael R Yes, Michael, There you have it . . a "reporter", stating his conclusions as fact, and reporting it as "news".
The "news" (not that you are likely to see it here) is that most of the " - myriad false statements and public lies" Mr. Baker refers to have been disproven, and many more are subject to interpretation.
If "Fact" were reported as news, and interpretation were left to readers, much of the problem Mr. Baker claims to be concerned about would be obviated - - - -
What is the next chapter of the American journey after nihilism?
Now that there is no objective truth in our politics, will it spread? What happens to the family? What happens to the arts and sciences? What happens to the daily sharing of small t -truths that are necessary in our culture for our daily existence.
Will we be able to share the sidewalks and the subway and the highway? Our schools are already under attack.
Mr Baker is eloquently providing the questions. Now who is going to provide an answer? So far, it seems, only nihilism is on taking root.
NYT readers, please tell me I should not be afraid.
16
The only thing preventing a quick removal/resignation of Trump is a massive distortion of the facts surrounding the impeachment probe via a disinformation campaign driven by Fox and a majority of Republican representatives who are too frightened or self-serving to set the record straight.
If the country survives the Trump period, the top priority moving forward must be the disruption of the for-profit propaganda machine that so distorts and pollutes the communication of political information in the U.S. It has become a destructive monster that, to feed itself, must do everything possible to keep its customers in a state of constant outrage up to, and including, the vilification of one's own family members, neighbors and fellow citizens. It currently stands in the way of the proper functioning of the government, to the point of attracting foreign enemies of the state who gleefully exploit its power for their own advantage.
The basic premise of the first amendment must be preserved, but the current power and reach of media technology has left the nation vulnerable in ways that the framers never could have imagined. The return of the Fairness Doctrine would be an obvious first step, but more will be required. Representatives of both parties must find a way to come together to combat this existential threat before it devours everything and ends the American experiment for good.
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@expat_phil
Bloomberg and Steyer could probably best spend their billions to buy Fox News and then direct them to shut off the lies.
This former republican (never again) could live with Biden / Harris.
3
@R Rogers Brilliant idea! Use your money for the good of the country...
The medical establishment has a term for this kind of behavior: antisocial personality disorder. That Trump defines this term as just one man is not as disturbing as the tens of millions of other Americans who are willing to follow him and see no issues whatsoever -- including the Republican congressional leadership. This is without precedent in American history. Even in the McCarthy era, America's conscience could still be awoken when McCarthy was finally challenged with the simple phrase: "Have you no sense of decency, sir?" Who is out there today with the gravitas to issue such a challenge, and would America even awake to care?
99
This article mentions false equivalence. In my opinion false equivalence is the key ingredient is this new culture of fact and alternative fact. There is no panacea but simply having journalism become a bulwark against false equivalence could improve the situation.
47
@pointpetre This article is itself an example of "false equivalency," as pointed out by many frustrated commentators.
It was a White House staffer in the early George W. Bush administration who when confronted with the facts said: “We make our own reality.” This has been a Fox News and Republican strategy for a long time. Sure the Democrats will do the same thing but on no where near the scale of the Republicans. Donald Trump just raised the bar to a whole new level.
66
Where is the evidence of the Democrats “doing the same thing”?
1
When an article is attempting to portray an environment where the truth is blatantly disregarded by some of the most powerful people on the planet, the article itself must focus on telling the truth.
It can't be another false narrative on "both sides" does it.
93
This was an almost eerily serene recitation of alarm after alarm, being sounded from within the bowels of the beast, itself, that the country has been subjugated to governance by an unpopular, unyielding, remorselessly cruel, and bitterly defiant fabric of lies. Mr Baker is correct, I think, to find this interesting. It is something else, however, that he should be able to bring himself to say, despite the "fait accompli" aspect of the prospect he observes: it is objectively objectionable. A newspaper may still report such things, surely?
25
You left out one of the most important contributors to this dishonorable culture of deliberate lies, misinformation and distortions, Mitch McConnell. It is an egregious omission given his blatant use of power for his own and his party's ends, not for America and its citizens. He is about to preside over the Senate trial, which will be tailored by him to preserve his own power first, and that of his party. He will be silent when he knows lies are being told in his favor, just as he has been up until now. He will manipulate the constitution and the Senate to serve only his party as he did with the Supreme Court nomination of Gorsuch. History will be harsh on McConnell, but the our democracy cannot wait until then.
180
@L Andrews Mitch McConnell should have been impeached for violating his oath of office before (finally) getting around to 45.
2
@Mike ... McConnell has been smart about his maneuvers.
History will judge him, surely, but our present scenario is just getting started and Mitch will be front and center.
This is a canonical example of false equivalence. Quoting Ben Domenech as some kind of sage arbiter of truth is absurd. Why is it so hard to state that there is exactly one side that has completely abandoned reality here? Republicans have a monopoly on blatantly transparent lying and have had so for decades now. This is not a both sides issue. There is no democratic Jim Jordan. Just say it for gods sake.
471
@Blud
My point exactly. Domenech has a long record of blatant lies including plagiarism, accusing a SCOTUS member of being gay when that was not the case, receiving payoffs to write favorable articles about subjects, called the survivors of Stoneman Douglas High School massacre a "bunch of idiots," etc. etc.
Yet, Peter Baker uses quotes from Domenech to lend credibility to his article?
34
@Blud When Republicans' only purpose is to protect their rich benefactors and do nothing for everyone else, they have no recourse but to lie and use wedge issues to stay in power.
4
“What is the cost of lies? It’s not that we will mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that, if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all. What can we do then? What else is left but to abandon even the hope of truth and content ourselves instead with stories? In these stories, it doesn’t matter who the heroes are. All we want to know is who is to blame.”
- opening scene of Chernobyl, and very apropos today
84
"Mr. Trump’s insistence that he did nothing wrong has forced at least some Republicans to accept and promote his account even when it contrasts with available evidence."
That's because the president has successfully manipulated his allies, and much of the country, into doing what he has demanded for the past 3 years: "don't believe what you see, believe what I tell you." He's even got Republicans accepting Russian disinformation campaigns.
This is more than an Alice in Wonderland world. It's a dangerous moment that throughout history, signals governmental decline and downfall.
As any textbook on fascism, or even "just" tyranny states, one of the first things budding despots do is reshape truth. Convinced of a new reality, the people then gradually come to embrace the erosion of individual civil liberties, press freedom, and democracy itself.
That's where we seem to be headed, faster than a runaway train.
306
@ChristineMcM that is exactly what is happening, you’ve described it precisely. That is the weight in my stomach since 2016.
14
Conservatives say they value the institutions that are the framework for our democracy. It's clear the current crop of Republicans aren't really conservative, but why is it so hard to acknowledge that?
It's ironic that people have more trust in the military than elected officials or the press. Respect for the military has become a requirement for politicians. These new revelations put a spotlight on the flaws in that argument.
True conservatives honored the civilian control of the military. They recognized that the armed forces, and I would include the police in that category, can be dangerous. The evidence is there in the coups and revolutions driven by machinations of the army or the police.
Respect for the people who take risks and give up personal freedom to keep us safe is important. It's also important to demand high standards from those people and, when those standards are not met, to sanction bad behavior. Unfortunately, the politics of manipulation makes that harder. This report should be a positive warning. I am pessimistic that will be the case.
75
When the Times insists on both-sides coverage, it only adds to the problem. When the Times calls lies "unfounded statements" it adds to the problem. One party's deeply held lies is not equivalent to the other side's facts.
347
@Anne Hajduk Sadly though if there is no alternative perspective at all you only widen the social rift further- it's then just the other sides wrong headed narrative and no one from the alternate perspective will even consider your well written article other than to bash it. It's lonely in the middle as both shores grow ever further in the distance.
3
@Victor Lacca That is just a further spin out of the "both sides" fallacy. There is no "far left" in this country. The idea that the Democrats as well as the Republicans are going off into political extremes is another Right wing lie that provides cover for how extreme the Republicans have become. Universal health care and gun control are not far leftist extreme ideas - all of our peer nations have had these policies for many years. That you fall for this shows how effective and insidious the right wing propaganda machine is.
7
@Victor Lacca What exactly is the "middle" between truth and lies?
Indeed. When young people observe what is happening I cannot imagine that a single one is inspired to serve the public interest in this country anymore. How can a single one of them possibly admire the charade they are seeing. Truth is being twisted so far that it is no longer the truth.
170
@Confused AOC is very inspiring! I don’t agree with 100% of her politics but I do think she shows the way forward for young liberals that want to be effective communicators about real issues.
Matt Gaetz on the other hand...that’s “downfall of the Republic” stuff right there...
35
@ Confused. For every LBJ, there is a Daniel Ellsberg. It’s time for these elder white statesmen to step down and let the next generation manage their own future.
7
@Confused
The young admire Bernie Sanders in no small part because he is honest, even when it isn’t in his obvious best interest. Both Warren and Buttigieg have done duck and weave when they sensed the blunt truth was not the popular answer. Not Bernie.
They also have the inspiring example of the diplomats and other civil servants who spoke the truth when it was risky, even dangerous, to do so. I hope many young people watched them and became interested in public service.
Reagan falsely maligned the civil service and that denigrating has cost us in experience and excellence. Once, joining the civil service was an honor. Then the GOP made it a whipping boy for their mistakes, lies, and incompetence.
We need to turn this around. Elect politicians who are loyal to the truth and dedicated to the people. Make it an honor to serve the country again.
3
Truth isn’t on trial - truth is truth. What’s in trial are the Congressional Republicans that are willfully selling their souls and selling out our democracy for their own lust for temporal power.
545
@BrainThink - they don't have souls to sell. They never did, or we wouldn't be here.
22
@BrainThink Keep in mind the Congressmen are acting in a way that their constituents want them too. Our country is in a war against truth and facts because 40% of the voting public allow it to happen.
38
@Sydney Carton - I'm not sure. I think that these people simply don't understand what is true and what isn't. I'm sure they want their leaders to lie, they just buy in to the lies that the leaders tell. I often wonder what Trump's women supporters would say if they really slowed down and thought about Trump having affairs on three wives, walking in on half naked teen age girls, bragging about grabbing women in the crotch, etc. What would they do if their husbands did all that? Would they just say, "well, that's just Jim being Jim." I doubt they would say that. But this is what Trump does to people. He twists them around so much that they don't know what is real, especially people who are less educated and less sophisticated.
8