The only problem is that none of the Muslim countries in the Middle East or Central Asian complains about the Muslim re-educational treatment. And there are so many.
Don't they know something we don't?
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"the Chinese government has gone on the offensive to reject mounting evidence that it is detaining Muslims in droves".
In the total absence of evidence that China is detaining Muslims in droves, how could the 'evidence' mount?
Especially since the allegations about the (invisible) evidence come entirely from countries that are currently bombing Muslims world wide.
There is also a total absence of eye-witnesses who attest to China's mistreatment of its terrorists and their sympathizers–and an overwhelming presence (1000+ at last count) of eye-witnesses who have inspected the re-education facilities and videoed and photographed them.
Add to that the World Muslim Council's post-inspection report praising China's treatment of its Muslims and you have to wonder: is this nonsense coming from the folks who gave us Iraq's WMDs and a President who is a secret Russian puppet?
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@Godfree Roberts The Russian puppet is Hillary & Obama working in tandem to project their world order and crimes against an innocent President. Debunked already.. Islam is afraid of China, hence their passive stance. Business kind of takes precidence over a bigger bully.
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Thank you to the NYT for this reporting. Please keep it up.
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The sentences that "'They are missing that point where they go from ‘This handful of people did bad things’ to ‘We need to lock up 1.8 million or however many people are estimated in camps,’” Mr. Byler said." are really what makes me laugh.
I wonder him to tell us "The America holds what any point that they go from “the handful of people 'did bad things' in 911” to "we need to overturn some Muslim regimes in the Middle East", causing hundreds of millions of refugees, who further causing endless chaos in Europe.
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Do watch the little video on this article; what is does not discuses is the general plan for Xinjiang that is linked to the ‘schools’ the residents in numbers are being housed in teaching industrial skills to a basically agricultural population and Mandarin to enhance employ-ability. See for example:
Belt and Road: A Chinese World Order byBruno Maçães, an EU development expert on the states’ hopes for Xinjiang.
China has an ‘Inequality Problem’ that tops the US’s and is trying to bring the southwest into the world economy, to add to its ‘other concerns.’
One of the leaked court documents showed that one guy was becoming more religious and scolded his coworkers for watching pornography and socialising with non-believers. He was sentenced to 10 years in prison, which is outrageous by any standard. The question is: how to deal with people who show tendencies of increasing intolerance and radicalisation? If there is a significant pool of such people, how to deal with this effectively in a humane way? To dissuade China from these draconian measures, criticism alone is insufficient. There needs to be constructive criticisms that shows a better way of dealing with extremism.
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It is indeed a tragedy that many Islamic countries that feel victimized and shout from rooftops about alleged violation of Muslim rights in the democratic countries are absolutely quiet about Chinese program and its genocide of muslims. Pakistan is one such example. Money is a funny thing; money talks but it also buys deafening silence.
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@PK2NYT The reason they don't complain is that they've been there: over 1,000 of them, and seen that the Uyghurs are being well treated.
All the complaints are coming from people who have never been there.
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Despicable.
China: the world cares, and so do your ancestors.
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What does factory work mean? Possibly more cheap exports to the United States. At least that's good news for the free traders.
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Nazi Germany had factories, too, such as Auschwitz (with its "work makes free" front gate). The Nazis used those "factories" to systematically torture and murder many millions of their neighbors and countrymen (more than 1,000,000 at Auschwitz alone!). Their main "product" at these "factories": emaciated and disfigures corpses and tortured souls. What, specifically, makes you believe that the mass incarceration of Muslim people, exclusively, in factories by China is a benign thing?
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United States is permitted uninterrupted infiltration of CCP membership into our citizenry.
CCP should be treated at par with National Socialist Parties and their members should be kept out of civilized countries.
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@Max Same with RT, Sputnik and all other Russian media.
Thank you for keeping a focus on this unjust discrimination against Muslims in China. The Chinese government is far from being the only government that discriminates against Muslims and other minorities. The U.S., Russia, England, France, Spain, South Africa, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and many other governments have a long history of unjust discrimination. By publishing information about the Chinese camps, the NY Times reminds the world that the power of government can be used to discriminate against minorities and that world opinion should stand against such unjust discrimination. Thank you.
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@David True, but it's all about proportions, it happens here too but to make a leveled comparison is short-sighted.
I think the worst crime in this is that Muslim countries are looking the other way at what's happening in Xinjiang.
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I was comparing the U.S. history of using armed troops to commit violent genocide against Native Americans, including forcing Native children to attend re-education schools where the children were beaten for speaking their native languages or practicing their religions. I was thinking of the actions taken by the English and Spanish empires. While the scale and level of violence used by the Chinese government against the Muslims appears to be less by comparison, it really all boils down to the same problem, a dominating empire unjustly discriminating against minorities. It is wrong. It arises from a sense of us vs. them. I thank the NY Times for standing against this type of unjust discrimination where and when it occurs.
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It’s funny the difference in opinion depending on country.
The story of India is planning to grant easier access to non-Muslims to migrate to India from neighboring countries is booming with mostly negative regarding India’s move.
China which is actually putting Muslim people in camps, and actually implemented a lot of its “integration” policies hardly garners an opinion.
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@HistoryRhymes Total nonsense, this story in Xinjiang has been in the news for a long time, perhaps you're not paying attention.
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If you have a problem with criminals, you arrest the criminals, not well over a million people that have *done* nothing wrong because they might not agree with the government. Mass thought police activity is not and never will be an acceptable response. Is China returning to its Maoist history here?
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@Diane Merriam yes. https://www.amazon.com/Chinas-New-Red-Guards-Radicalism/dp/0190605847
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@Pac
Yes see my review of that piece and footnote, as well.
@Diane Merriam, I am sure CCP's Muslim policy is wrong, but the question for the world is how to eradicate extremism and terrorism.
The U.S. has already offered its own solution, which is to overthrow Iraq and Afghanistan, and of course, travel ban.
There is a buzzword called Qie Gao, which is a Xinjiang cake. Muslims from Xinjiang sell the cake everywhere in China.
When I was 14 years old, one day I was on my way from school to home, I bought a sliced cake, those Muslims asked 20 Yuan from me. I was totally shocked, cause it was only worth 2 Yuan. I was not allowed to go until I paid my price - 20 Yuan to me at that time is like $50 to me now. I still remember those Muslims holding their knives and standing together.
This situation happens to many people, I am sure not just me. No Chinese are dare to mess with Xinjiang Muslims.
CCP's policy towards Xinjiang is def wrong, but what is your take on this?
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The House of Representatives have to do something to counter the inertia of Muslim countries, who seem to be enjoying Chinese largesse and are looking the other way.
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China would be a lot more believable if it didn't have such a long, long record of human rights abuses. Recently, for instance, their forced harvesting of organs from dissidents has come to light.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646
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"They are forced to study Chinese, memorize laws, practice marching and learn skills for factory work."
Terrible.
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@J
Apple has people living and committing suicides in their factories . Apple doesn't want to pay Americans a living wage, with benefits here in the states. So our CEO's have nothing to say because the yare part of the problem.
So how in the world do we have moral authority to say anthing when we have children locked in cages because they are immigrants? What does the GOP have to say about anything since they are part of the problem. They probably have no issues with these activities of thought control in other words murder
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@J I hope you don't mean that sarcastically. Have you ever stayed in a "re-education" camp or have known people who were detained in one? Our family and friends have been in situations like this -- not just in China but the world over.
Being forced to study a country's native language is an understatement. Usually, that type of coercion is coupled with other efforts to erase whatever heritage is aimed at. This is a technique oppressive governments have used for millenia: whether it's in China, Vietnam, Indonesia, WW2 Germany, or in the US for Native Americans.
Skills for factory work sounds benign but it's likely along the lines of if you don't "learn", you get punished. And forget about having any choice choosing what you want to be. Be the wrong color/ religion, believe the wrong things, etc. and any choice you may have is taken away.
Finally, the lack of due process is concerning.
Apparently you fell for the Communist line. We're Chinese-American and one of the first things my parents taught me growing up is don't believe anything a Communist gov't tells you.
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@ms
I didn't fall for any line - I just repeated what the article said. You're the one who's making assumptions based on what is 'usually' or 'likely' the case. The Chinese gov't had a problem, and while not on the scale of 9/11, it was more difficult and insidious because it related to a domestic population. Is their solution proportionate, and will it be effective? Maybe not, but the same questions can be asked about the US invasions of 2 countries and the establishment of black jails and Guantanamo Bay. And maybe most importantly, it's not only Communist governments that lie.
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“They are missing that point where they go from ‘This handful of people did bad things’ to ‘We need to lock up 1.8 million or however many people are estimated in camps,’” Mr. Byler said.”
By Mr. Byler’s logic:
The US is missing the point where they go from a handful of Saudi Arabians did bad things on September 11th 2001 to “We need to invade a country of 30 million or however many people are estimated to live there and bomb them back to the Stone Age.”
I would like Mr. Byler and his pal to say this with a straight face to victims of 9/11 and every single other victim of muslim atrocities over the past few decades around the world. Especially to the Yazidee women enslaved by Uighur ISIS members.
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Yes, the US was missing the point when we invaded Afghanistan. Look how well trying to brute-force eradicate Islamic extremism worked for us. It won’t work for China either.
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@jcy You're misreading what he said. He was saying that the government of China has said that, not himself supporting the statement.
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@M.D.
No comparison we invaded a country that was not involved with 9/11 attack leading to massive deaths, disintegration, and ISIS today. China attempts to integrate Xinjiang go back to Ming dynasty with mixed results.
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Maybe, just maybe, they are right. Just look at what one of the soldier's of our ally did this past week.
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@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman
I agree. The truth is the Uighurs were heavily influenced by the more extreme Muslims in the "stans" - Kazakhstan, Kurdistan, etc. - the same Islamic jihadists who attacked Russians. It's just nonsense for American politicians to draw conclusions about what's going on somewhere based on what human rights activists claim is going on. Prove it!
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@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman
Please be specific - about what do you suggest they are right? Are you suggesting they are right in jailing 1.8 million people as preemptive measure to prevent four more separatist attacks? And did the soldiers of the unnamed ally (presumably Turkey) engage in the same level of ethnically and religiously based jailing? Are you suggesting that one outrage justifies another?
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@Mimi "Nonsense for American politicians to draw conclusions [...] on what human rights activists claim is going on. Prove it!" -- .... uuuhhhh... did you miss the big front page story on this very newspaper with several hundred pages of leaked Chinese Gov't documents proving it? You're suspiciously towing the line on a common Chinese Gov't influenced media argument.... Your point doesn't quite stand well either, as I doubt you'd support the mass detention of young white males in the U.S. just because they're the more commonly radicalized, influenced by xenophobia and hate-based terrorists that have come before them. It'd also be ludicrous if the U.S. started detaining the families of these white male terrorists based on any little similar ideology, such as more reactionary forms of Christianity; let alone if the U.S. pressured any family members abroad to stay silent. These actions in the Chinese/Uighur context are quite well documented, so my question instead would be why it seems you're blind to these sources? (Such sources encompassing entities beyond just human rights activists even.)
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