I don't know what Trump thinks. Buit I do know what I think. I think an impeachment process that is entirely partisan is a fraud against the constitution and a nullity in law.
21
@david lange: so I guess you would oppose the impeachment inquiries of A. Johnson, Nixon & Clinton since they were all initiated in a partisan fashion. Likely, there would never be an impeachment of a president without a form of partisanship involved. Bad presidents are not usually impeached by their own party.
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@david lange Look at the facts, not who are presenting them, to determine if impeachment is warranted, or not. Pointing at partisan matters obscures your clear eyed view of what is.
87
@JAM
Johnson's proposed impeachment was strongly bipartisan to the last vote. Nixon was never impeached, though he probably would have been had he not resigned, and in his case again there was strong bipartisan support. Clinton's impeachment was also bipartisan, though the strength of that bipartisanship was less substantial, and (at least in my own opinion) the ultimate charges were insufficient to justify conviction.
In Trump's case there is no substantial bipartisan support at all. And this is exactly the case that troubled the Framers most: that the impeachment power might one day lead a disaffected party to seek to remove a duly-elected President on purely partisan grounds. This a fraud and a nullity, and should be treated as such.
1
The Democrats in the House have been after Mr. Trump's removal since November 2016.
I would treat them the same as they are getting now. It's a partisan body with only the removal of a duly elected president on their minds.
8
@Randy L. Duly elected by the antiquated, outdated electoral college. NOT by the citizens of the United States.
49
@Randy L. Then who is it who is passing all those bills and sending them over to the Senate?
44
@Randy L. Mitch McConnell memorably stated at the outset of Barack Obama's administration that the Congressional Republicans' number-one priority was, not national security, not the economy, not the administration of justice, not the national welfare, but to deny Obama reelection. And, of course, to refuse to confirm judges that he appointed.
Wikipedia documents over a dozen attempts by Republicans to impeach Obama over policy differences and false allegations about his birthplace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Barack_Obama
Your hypocrisy is on full display.
89
Trump doesn't need to do anything to demean Congress - Pelosi and her team are doing all of the work required on their own. Unfortunately, the Framers covered how to deal with an out of control President but overlooked the possibility that the house would engage in abuse of power. If he is guilty of Contempt of Congress, I am also guilty (although Disgust would be more descriptive) - they deserve punishment that, unfortunately, the Constitution never anticipated.
10
@David Yes, they are 'abusing' the President by calling out, and proving, his behaviors that are worthy of impeachment. How dare they?
43
@David You want to have Congress "punished" for disagreeing with your favorite dictator. You describe the Constitutionally-prescribed process of investigation and impeachment as "abuse of power", while your hero bloviates that the emoluments clause of the Constitution, which is written in black and white for everyone to see, is somehow "phoney" because it's a liability for him.
Meanwhile your party cheers for its lockstep apparatchiks in the Senate who bragged about refusing for years to confirm judges nominated by a President of the opposing party, including a Supreme Court justice. You cheer for the House Republicans who blindly repeat foreign dictators' propaganda and who, when they had a majority, repeatedly wasted millions of dollars on trumped-up "investigations" of Ms. Clinton and everybody else they could paint a target on, without coming up with anything they could convict her for. You cheered for the relentless investigation and impeachment of President Bill Clinton, of President Obama's birth certificate, etc. This is, somehow, not "Congressional abuse of power" because it benefits your side.
We all get it. And we understand exactly what you and the rest of your party are aiming at: one party rule by a party representing a shrinking minority of the population, with the opposing party, representing the majority of the population, "punished" for its presumption.
Which is why Trump must be removed now with no further delay. Trump delenda est.
59
@David You're like a murderer was caught red-handed stabbing someone and who complains that the police are out to get you. The Democrats are doing their jobs. Maybe the Republicans should remember what their jobs are and actually do them.
41
Pelosi had a chance to act with full honor but shrank in the spotlight of KremlinGate '16. "It must be bipartisan; We need the strongest hand possible; He's just not worth it." If the great Mueller's report had been released last Dec., Pelosi wouldn't be speaker or she would've backed the inquiry maybe leading towards a censure; who knows exactly but this version of Pelosi wouldn't be speaker.
The house absolutely had to launch an impeachment inquiry for our country's past, present, and future. The only reason to actually impeach in the house is if you have the votes and the cowards that looked the other way after the Mueller report have been quite clear. We don't owe history anymore than has been given, so please just get that goofball Pelosi past this impeachment ASAP.
You are assuming he thinks. He doesn’t.
6
Impeach him, but don't let the Senate vote.. Let it hover over him through the election. It will drive him crazy.
11
The question posed in your headline is simplistic because it's obvious the Trump knows that 'Constitutional Processes" are below him. Or if he doesn't understand the inference of "below," he simply doesn't know or doesn't care what observed and legal "processes" he pledged to uphold during his inauguration. Does he know what "pledge" means. Remember that the man is not only venal, he's also dumb as a rock.
9
Republicans think our constitutional process don't apply to them.
5
Here is the ultimate danger to the country:
1-Congress will impeach Trump, but the Senate will clear him.
2-Trump will declare ultimate victory, and use every venue to feed his devoted followers' rage.
3-Trump will declare fraud when he loses in a very close race; OR he will win the electoral vote again.
4-Whatever the outcome , he will NOT leave the WH.
5-His monarchic aspirations will lead him to change , or override of the US Constitution, and he will declare himself ...President for Life.
Sounds familiar?
5
Trump has nothing but disdain for America, its founding documents, the ideals held within those documents, the land, and its citizens. While he occasionally gives lip service to something, his actions are usually more telling.
While he publicly lauds the military, he has never served (fake doctor's note from wealthy father got him, "bone spurs"), and has never said a single positive thing about anything the military has ever done, anywhere.
Every other governmental agency, institution, including even our Constitution, has been shown nothing but derision and scorn.
Trump supporters call him a patriot, but you can't constantly deride our founding documents, say you are a better president than any previous one, decimate gov agencies designed to protect consumers (ie US citizens), sell our parks and nature preserves to loggers, miners and oil companies, weaken America through actions that put his personal political goals ahead of our nation's national security, seek to impoverish our elderly, etc., etc., etc. - and say you're a patriot.
Supporting Trump's Cult of personality is not patriotism. There must be a higher loyalty to our country, our founding documents, the land and the people - otherwise you're just a member of a cult.
.
9
Trump encapsulates both the Nixon almost impeachment, and Clinton's. In his own mind, and likely the minds of most of his supporters, from Clinton: "it depends on what the meaning of crook is," followed by the Nixonian, "I am not a crook." Ergo, if he says he's "not a crook," he's not a crook. And the band plays on...
2
Trump's first thought upon entering a new situation is about how he can cheat and win. He has no history of showing respect for societal mores or the law. For him, it's all about winning at any cost. It always has been. Nothing else. No greater considerations.
Right now, he's winning. He has held the rightwing base and that has kept Republican congressmen in line. Removal from office does not seem likely.
In 2020 we can only hope that the votes are counted accurately and that he doesn't succeed in tying up the election in his 5-4 Court while the clock ticks past Jan 20, 2021.
The Framers anticipated that a crook could get into office, but I don't think they anticipated a full blown psychopath.
6
If the Republican argument that there are no direct witnesses and no proof, knowing that the President has refused to produce any documents or witnesses to prove his innocence, then no future President can be impeached, who will definitely use this tactic to escape wrong-doing! The Monarch is enthroned!
5
I believe that what we are seeing happen in our country is a coup, perpetrated by Russia via trump with aiding and abetting by his republican cohorts. They are successfully dismantling our Constitution, denouncing our justice system, encouraging skepticism of our journalists, infiltrating our voter system, etc. The question is, what have the Russians promised these people for their role in this government takeover??
11
I think that the most critical, and foreseeable, long-term consequence of the Republicans' willingness to allow Trump to obstruct the impeachment process is that we will find in 2020 that if Trump loses the election, he will choose to obstruct the peaceful transfer of power, and most likely refuse to leave office at all. I have said since the beginning of his presidency that whomever the ugly task would fall to (Secret Service, military?) to forcibly remove him had better start to gird their loins in preparation for having to drag the man from the Oval Office kicking, screaming, and digging his claws into the desk.
Given Trump's behavior during this impeachment process, I think that advice was spot on.
4
"At an earlier time, such monarchical behavior from a president would have been met with bipartisan insistence on accountability"
But now we have Tsar Donald the Deplorable.
Before the start of democracies, the monarchs of the past didn't ever have to account to the people for anything. It would be rude, even revolutionary to demand that a king justify himself to the peasants. So kings didn't bother to respond.
Now we have democracy--- of a sort. We vote and our press questions our Leader and his courtiers. We have twitter.
Trump must respond---so he just makes up lies, about everything, as an automatic response to any questioning. His party follows along, loyally distorting the the evidence, pretending they're adhering to principle.
What's astounding is the number of lies Tsar Donald of America has so easily told. The Washington Post records over 12, 000 lies now. By 2018,it was 5000.
That alone merits impeachment. Our president sees any accountability to truth as an insult to his authority. Did our Framers ever anticipate such a thing?
Every day this sociopath is in office is an insult to Americans ---and to our reputation in the world.
And to US school children learning about our Constitution. We have to boot him out, so that we can face the younger generation without shame. For history.
We the People have to insist on what American colonists demanded when they overthrew King George and his aristocratic court --true Representation For Our Taxation.
2
What is unbearably tragic is how many millions of Americans have absolutely no idea what the Constitution says, or any respect for it. That includes all Trump’s supporters, in Congress and throughout the country. This isn’t about the election. This is the moment when we decide if we will have a republic, or a dictatorship.
Where do you stand, people? With the founders, with the Constitution, with the Declaration of Independence? With all who have fought to protect it? Doesn’t that matter to you? Or are you plying a video game, rooting for your avatars? Thinking the outcome has no consequences in the real world?
If we do nothing about his corruption now, we may not have a country in a year. Yes, it’s that serious. The very fact that he—and his enablers in Congress who won’t insist he follow the law—refuses to acknowledge a coequal branch of government is beyond alarming. Will he respect the courts? Or just do what he wants, come what may?
Can’t anyone see the danger we’re facing?
What happened to principled Republicans? Many of these people went to law school. For what? They don’t love the law, that’s clear.
A tragic day in America. I hope I’m not the only one shedding tears for our country.
180
It's interesting; it was Nixon's paranoia that got him into trouble, and so it is with Trump, too. Pride goeth before a fall.
2
He believes the constitution applies to everyone else but him.
3
Of course he thinks he is above the law! He's an autocrat. Everything he's done seems to undermine the Constitution.
2
Trump has good reason to not participate. The reason is that the GOP Senate is not going to remove him from office no matter what he has done. He knows he is a President without consequences. Kind of like his personal life. Trump has never had real consequences for his actions. Since the GOP Senate has abdicated their Constitutional Duties why would Trump cooperate. Nobody on his side is making him anything except above the law.
8
In the grand scheme of things the impeachment process does not matter. It is all political. The Democratic House will support impeachment. The Republican Senate will reject impeachment. Quelle surprise. And American voters will decide Trump’s future and the kind of country they want in November 2020.But the enigma continues. Why does Putin own Trump? Why is Trump Putin’s puppet? Where is traditional American investigative journalism on this HUGE question?
5
Alexander Hamilton surely got it about right about impeachment in Federalist #65 when he wrote, "The subjects of its jurisdiction are those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself."
With this in mind, a limited case based just on Ukraine and the elections is a weak and poor plan. The situation calls out for a case based on a broad pattern of misconduct, not just a few specific actions. The injuries to the society itself come from the broad patter and not primarily from a handful of specific acts.
3
Including articles of impeachment grounded in the Mueller report in no way diminishes the articles of impeachment based on the Ukraine incident.
Obstructing the testimony of material witnesses by the target of the investigation constitutes a self-incriminating statement on the part of said target.
The concrete evidence in the "dirt" fabricated by Rudy Giuliani documented elsewhere in today's NYT (and turned over to Congress by State Dept. IG Linick) and Donald Trump's statement "work with Rudy he knows what is going on" is the most potent evidence that Democrats have. That Senate jurors, several of whom have accepted Donald Trump blood money which should be an article of impeachment in itself, will exonerate Donald Trump is a foregone conclusion. It is now all about public perception. The "favor" that Donald Trump requested was not to "ask" for Ukraine to conduct an investigation or even a mere announcement of such. It was a blatant extortion attempt for Ukraine's president to take ownership of said "dirt" and release it under the pretense of a Ukrainian "investigation". This is what should be on the tip of the public's tongue. Instead Democrats remain oblivious, opting instead to put the public to sleep with legalistic babble and to wonder and ponder why the needle won't move, while allowing Republicans to stick to the plausible deniability of Donald Trump being a fearless corruption fighter.
2
Bannon is salivating, he knows Trump’s audience, and he’ll send Giuliani out there to entertain them with all the conspiracy theories they can cook up. Trump needs those ratings, and his enablers are only too happy to comply.
I am so offended as I watch the behaviour of the Republicans during this impeachment inquiry as they turn it into a side show. There is not a modicum of respect for your constitutional process, they look like clowns. I am so embarrassed to see your democracy being treated like a joke.
7
Not sure Trump has the slightest idea what the Constitutional process is. I am sure that he is used to getting away with things all his life -- though he does get caught from time to time, like with Stormy Daniels and his charity fraud. However, I'm uncomfortable with the NYTimes powers that be giving directives like this one for how the House should proceed. As it is, the 'wall' between its editorializing and reporting is nonexistent, and this just makes matters worse -- as if the House really needs the NYTimes to tell it what to do and how to go about it.
2
Not sure Trump has the slightest idea what the Constitutional process is. I am sure that he is used to getting away with things all his life -- though he does get caught from time to time, like with Stormy Daniels and his charity fraud. However, I'm uncomfortable with the NYTimes powers that be giving directives like this one for how the House should proceed. As it is, the 'wall' between its editorializing and reporting is nonexistent, and this just makes matters worse -- as if the House really needs the NYTimes to tell it what to do and how to go about it.
Not sure Trump has the slightest idea what the Constitutional process is (unless someone presented it to him on a TV video or some such). I am sure that he is used to getting away with things all his life -- though he does get caught from time to time, like with Stormy Daniels and his charity fraud. However, I'm uncomfortable with the NYTimes powers that be giving directives like this one for how the House should proceed. As it is, the 'wall' between this once-venerable publication's editorializing and reporting has all but disappeared, and this just makes matters worse -- as if the House really needs the NYTimes to tell it what to do and how to go about it.
1
Not sure Trump has the slightest idea what the Constitutional process is (unless someone presented it to him on a TV video or some such). I am sure that he is used to getting away with things all his life -- though he does get caught from time to time, like with Stormy Daniels and his charity fraud. However, I'm uncomfortable with the NYTimes powers that be giving directives like this one for how the House should proceed. As it is, the 'wall' between this once-venerable publication's editorializing and reporting has all but disappeared, and this just makes matters worse -- as if the House really needs the NYTimes to tell it what to do and how to go about it.
Bannon is salivating, he knows Trump’s audience, and he’ll send Giuliani out there to entertain them with all the conspiracy theories they can cook up. Trump needs those ratings, and his enablers are only too happy to comply.
I am so offended as I watch the behaviour of the Republicans during this impeachment inquiry as they turn it into a side show. There is not a modicum of respect for your constitutional process, they look like clowns. I am so embarrassed to see your democracy being treated like a joke.
1
Mendacity thy name is Republican. What is happening in the committee hearing today is beyond deplorable. Do we have enough words for such dishonesty, with all of its nuance? I have only: Misrepresentation, gaslighting, propaganda, fabrication, prevarication, spuriousness, deceit, diversion, canard, fib, fabrication, falsehood, fairy tale.
4
Listening to Collins (R-AL) trash the process and interrogate the Democratic attorney makes it clear that it's not just Trump who holds the process in contempt, and who believes that the process is somehow beneath them - it's Trump's GOP, which has co-opted its duty to defend the Constitution in lieu of defending the lawless occupant of the White House. Sickening.
3
Silly question. Of course he thinks our Constitutional processes are beneath him. He thinks he's King of the World. Sadly, now the entire world knows what it's like to have a weird uncle who believes everything on Fox News.
5
This is a very sound argument by the Editorial Board for limiting articles of impeachment to the Ukraine affair. Adding obstruction of justice in the Mueller investigation would clearly raise the question of why Democrats didn't pursue an impeachment investigation after the Mueller report was issued instead of deciding now that the Mueller findings warrant an additional article of impeachment.
1
I want the question raised. I also want to know why they've essentially ignored his violation of the emoluments clause and the other times in which he has violated the constitution. I'm sick of all the political "strategizing". Stop treating our democracy like a game.
3
There is no doubt that senate majority leader, Mr McConnell will see to it that Mr Trump escapes justice.
It is a mistake to try and successfully impeach Mr Trump despite the overwhelming amount of evidence showing Mr Trump's misuse of presidential powers.
It is a waste of American taxpayers money.
Mr Trump should be voted out of office in 2020,. and be held criminally responsible afterwards.
Mr McConell and his gang won't be able to save Mr Trump then.
Citing historical precedent to Putin's Trump is useless. He feels he is appointed by Putin and not elected by the American people so he is free to do whatever he wants as long as Putin does not tell him not to.
In the Ukraine case he is guilty is sin so he of course will not allow any of his minions to testify to Congress. Logic, shame, historical precedent, are all meaningless to him. He thinks, and behaves, he is not just king but emperor - even though he has no clothes. The only thing he will accept is by money and flattery, as the Saudis did, and he will then defend them. The only way to deal his is to give him the boot next year.
Even though I don't believe for one second that the GOP senators, all his enablers, will convict him I do think the House, especially the Democrats, has no choice but to impeach him. If he behavior is not impeachable then nothing is, as the scholars who testified said.
2
"Does Trump Think Our Constitutional Processes Are Beneath Him?"
If the NYT believes that Constitutional process reigns supreme, why no persistent (or even casual) coverage of the Congressional everyday practice--and completely unconstitutional process--that delegates lawmaking to the bureaucracy that not only means legislating from the executive branch, but also instilling lawmaking, adjudication, and penalties within the governing agency.
Clearly, these unconstitutional processes and practices warrant more concern than they are given by the NYT--if it really is so concerned about Constitutional process.
2
I don't believe the Republicans are diminishing the House—
rather they are diminishing themselves and putting the lie to their patriotism and their fealty to the Constitution and to the government and people they have sworn to serve. But I'm weary of Republican showboating and self-righteous chin jutting anyway. It may be that the sheer blatancy of their hypocrisy will save us from listening to that particular sound loop during the election.
Is there another way besides impeachment to remove an abusive president from office?
The president is accountable to the people, we have a president who thinks he has absolute power and is accountable to no one.
Is our democracy so weak we can't remove an abusive and corrupt absolute ruler from office? A corrupt administration simply can disregard the legislature, an equal branch of government, and refuse to be held accountable? All the executive has to do is to refuse to co-operate?
If that is so the impeachment clause needs to be amended.
REALITY: the NYT is wrong again i.e. the House is abusing it's power and impeaching Pelosi should be an option for the SCOTUS to act on
2
@james alan - Why doesn't Donald Trump just do it himself? He has already declared his Constitutional right to do whatever he pleases.
2
Elections have consequences, LOL.Trump 2020!
1
Donald Trump is demeaning the United States
3
Why doesn't the Times come out and say that it is in favor of Impeachment and Removal like the Boston Globe and the LA Times?
2
You have nothing, and you know it—enjoy defeat—
1
It's a feature, not a bug. As long as people are as dumb as most Americans are...meh to everyone...including the deluded Left.
The Corporate takeover of everything is really the core...that and evil old white men.
The Democrats are going to blow it, again. Why? Because their leadership is abysmal and they stand for nothing of consequence that would really address the struggles of everyday Americans. Stupid Russiagate, a total bust that anyone could see was a false flag set by Hillary to distract from her sheer incompetency of losing to Trump. And now this ridiculous spectacle. They are incredibly devoid of substance.
3
Why hasn't anyone sent investigators to Ukraine to investigate why Rudy has been going in and out of that country for years? Such an exhausting parade of character's invaded our government when Trump took over and so many have been indicted and accused of everything possible. We don't even have a freaking moral compass anymore.
3
If Removal is doomed in Senate, this is the one chance to put on record ALL of Trump's outrages, including his 'forgotten felonies' (h/t WaPo Brian Klaas 8/16/19):
- Stormy hush $
- Mueller 10 Obstructions
- Emoluments
- Trump Towers Istanbul v. Kurds
GOP fake narratives already neutralize public opinion on Ukraine.
So why stop there when there's so much more? People are now used to fake accusations by GOP, works like a charm: Vince Foster, Pizza-gate, Email-gate, FISA-gate, Biden-gate, etc. All proven lies, but it works.
So why not counter that avalanche of lies with a tidal wave of truths?
Measured & timid has failed Dems for decades. Allowing GOP's dirty tricks to twist public has been an irresponsible Dem disaster, destructive to the nation & world:
- GOP's absurd Clinton Impeachment via Ken Starr/Newt Gingrich dirty tricks cost Gore the election. We got 9/11 & the Iraq War.
- GOP's absurd 'Swiftboating' of John Kerry got us more war & economic collapse.
- GOP's absurd 'but her emails' got us a dictator determined to destroy co-equal checks & balances, courts already stacked forever & guaranteed ecological collapse.
Failing now to unleash the full force of all indictments against Trump is beyond irresponsible.
They keep asking 'but what laws has Trump broken?
Here's a few to cite:
18 USC § 201: Bribery
18 USC § 610: Coercion
18 USC § 872: Extortion
2 USC § 192: Obstruction
52 USC §30121: Solicitation
18 USC § 5: Interference
ART. I, SECT. 9 & 10: Emoluments
7
it is far more than congress that trump is demeaning. he managed to get barr to bury the damning evidence in the mueller report thereby corrupted the justice dept for his own benefit. he is a global laughingstock at u.n. meetings, nobody takes him seriously anymore. the office of the president has been tarnished with his dishonesty, amorality and complete lack of ethics. it's more than congress that trump has demeaned, it's the constitution and the entire country.
2
Trump will be older and less sane next year. That's obvious. How the GOP will grapple with his increasing mental demise is going to be pathetic.
2
Donald Trump is demeaning humanity.
6
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/20/mueller-report-impeachment-obstruction-bill-clinton-republicans “Trump tampered with witnesses. These Senate Republicans voted to oust Bill Clinton for doing just that” The Guardian, April 20, 2019 Quotations from these Senators who voted to impeach Clinton
Mitch McConnell, Kentucky "… I am completely and utterly perplexed by those who argue that perjury and obstruction of justice are not high crimes and misdemeanors..." Senate floor, 12 February 1999
Lindsey Graham, South Carolina "... We’re a nation of laws …He turned the judicial system upside down, every way but loose. He sent his friends to lie for him. He lied for himself." Speaking on the Senate floor while a House impeachment manager, 8 February 1999
Pat Roberts, Kansas "... you don’t urge hiding legal evidence under the bed unless you want to affect the outcome of a legal proceeding. The president did so..." Statement, 12 February 1999
Mike Crapo, Idaho "... All Americans must abide by the rule of law, including the president of the United States, who is the highest official in the land and who has the additional duty to ensure that the laws are faithfully executed." Idaho Falls Post Register, 21 February 1999
Also: Mike Enzi, Wyoming; Chuck Grassley, Iowa; James Inhofe, Oklahoma; Richard Shelby, Alabama; Richard Burr, North Carolina; Roy Blunt, Missouri; Rob Portman, Ohio; Jerry Moran, Kansas; John Thune, South Dakota; Roger Wicker, Mississippi
7
I've lived awhile.
I know characters like Trump and his boys (even the female boys).
Their world is divided into two groups; Players and suckers.
Trump is a player. Public servants are suckers.
It's really that simple - sort of.
1
@Barking Doggerel oh.
Our Democracy dangles dangerously from a single thread, swaying slightly in the breeze as the Don approaches with a machete.
Don’t forget he’s a meanie, cheats at golf and doesn’t own a dog! What a farce!
2
@Pjlit Which part of this headline was the farce ?
Has the Republican party now become the party of cowards?
@Frederick Not become...they didn't stand up to Joe McCarthy either.
Yes, keep it simple, stupid. Focused and easily repeatable. Grave and dangerous behavior with far reaching implications to the electoral process. A talking point that all people who find Trumps bribery obscene use and use in unison. It is what the Republican party has done since Gingrich? Except now, 60% of the country will be repeating a factual talking point, not a made up conspiracy fact.
1
@SLF I'd like to agree with you, I think. What are you trying to say?
Hello Mr. Trump,
I am a black woman living in Philadelphia who has a pretty good job in the non-profit sector. I can take care of myself. I am used to leaders of your ilk in the struggle that I have encountered in leadership such as yours. Why do you wait until it's time for you to be elected or re-elected to think that folks like me are duped that you are trying to help us? I truly don't understand why folks fall for your rhetoric. I know that some folks who aren't educated fall for it, but why you think that brown folks will fall for it. I'm not a big Biden fan, but i'd rather have him than you. You are an embarrassment fo me. You are the most backward person that I'd ever endorse for the leader of this country that I could think of. You are an embarrassment to even the drug addled folks in the USA that I can think of. We have your face and we want you to just go away. We understand that the rich, white folks love you but we don't. Hopefully, even the most addicted junkies will turn out to the polls and get rid of you and your ilk that we don't agree with. You can spend all the money in your privileged, white world and get rid of you and that Mitch mistake. We continue to hope and we hope that we can get those addicted and formal veterans to return our democracy to get you and your evil conspirators out of our senate and congress....bad luck to you all! You've proven to be against our democracy and for your special interests...a plague on you all!
3
@PhillyMomma oh.
It's abundantly clear not only from Trump's behavior, but from comments on this thread from his supporters, that today's Republicans would rather destroy the Constitution and the country than allow Trump to be removed from office, no matter what he has done.
I don't ever want to hear another elected Republican talk about his/her oath of office, and I don't want to hear any Republican at all talk about respecting the Constitution!
3
In Jan 2016 Trump was prophetic and correct in saying that he could shoot someone in the middle of NY's Fifth Avenue and lose no support. The impeachment and trial will likely not change that. It's the American people who are on trial here as much as is Trump. I wish I understood why his support is so rock solid.
1
Donald Trump is demeaning this country.
Assuming the process proceeds and moves to the Senate, that is where the we might see some of President Trump's "witnesses" being allowed to testify. Essentially: why should the President waste his efforts where he knows he can't win (in the House). The Senate will be the true "showcase", both good and bad.
What isn't he demeaning?
The entire Republican Party is demeaning Congress.
4
Impeach for treason or House is wasting its time and giving Trump a win.
What Pelosi is doing is unconstitutional, and the damage she is doing will reverberate for decades.
You cannot move to impeach a president with no highcrime or evidence. His Tweeting is not an impeachable offense. His thought crimes are not an impeachable offense. I’m disgusted by all these egghead professors , political pundits and talking heads who decried Clinton’s impeachment yet are today silent or active.y cheerleading the Trump’s impeachment scam.
This will not end well for the Dems and their cheerleading media sycophants. The American economy is booming, yet the media shed 7,800 jobs this year alone.
Good riddance.
2
@Cjmesq0 If you know "this will not end well for the Dems," you should be smiling instead of griping. What are you really afraid of?
As a counter to your 'single charge' proposal, I invite the Editorial Board to read the excellent Op-Ed by David Leonhardt in today's edition of your paper.
1
@Dom Actually, Dom, they read it before you and I did. That's part of their job.
Never have I seen such hatred and a malicious witch Hunt for our President, since Day 1!
1
@Mark You must be one of the younger fellas !
This is what scares me- people will vote with their wallets or the Evsngelucals will vote on the basis of criminalizing abortion and gay marriage. This is evil
1
By his actions Trump is making impeachment a necessary action, if it was not already. By ignoring and demeaning Congress, Trump shows clearly that if he is continued in office, the Congress will have little or no role in the future, and the judiciary should get ready for the same kind of super-sized presidency where like the transition from First Consul in Rome to Emperor by seizure of all power, and no pushback, the model was there for the Nazis and now for Trump. The road is clear; which fork in it will the Republicans prefer?
Everyone........Pray for democracy.
2
Can't say I was glued to my TV during the impeachment hearings. Though retired, I work part-time and when I get home. . . . .
Well, you know.
BUT--
--the little I DID see of those hearings and especially the GOP congressmen that felt compelled to "do their thing"--grandstand--play to the peanut gallery--
--oh my stars, New York Times! They filled me with contempt.
Seldom if ever did they respond--did they TRY to respond--did they PRETEND to respond--
--to the sober, weighty, considered charges brought by those honorable public servants.
Oh dear me, no. Their arguments (as they say) were mostly ad hominem, not ad rem. That is, they strove to besmirch the credit and honesty of those witnesses--without dealing explicitly with the stuff those witnesses SAID.
And my goodness, New York Times. They grimaced. They smirked. They rolled their eyes. They pointed accusing forefingers. They stared disconsolately at the floor. And above all--
--they yelled. Talked as fast as they could. This of course--
--to preclude the sober, weighty, considered answer--
--that would blow their case to smithereens.
And now--the Senate.
I have no hopes.
Sigh.
2
Would you guys stop making excuses for the Republicans who are really the ones demeaning Congress.
Did you have other expectations of the president?
Heck, this is the guy who bragged he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue. Not sure what you thought he meant.
Call out Republican representatives for endorsing his lawless behavior.
2
What demeaning congress is the extreme left five new Congress woman
@sym huh?
All who break the law think it and other people are beneath them.
@Maggie And those who do not break the law think other people are above them ???
To my liberal friends......just remember these are the same fools that made up two years of libel and slander about a Russian hoax.
The political hacks have credibility.
1
Hello?
Emoluments !!!
The online title of this editorial could be changed from “Donald Trump Is Demeaning Congress” to “The New York Times Editorial Board Is Demeaning Congress.”
Outsiders have no way of knowing the discussion or vote by The Editorial Board, but it is clear that in the minds of a majority of the members, Donald Trump and William Barr already have won the impeachment battle.
This is a shocking, historically significant abandonment by one of the nation’s leading newspapers.
Granted that the Hamlet-like handwringing and nitpicking obsession with Department of Justice guidelines by Robert Mueller, along with his being intimidated by his boss, William Barr, did a disservice to the nation, The New York Times does not have to pour salt in the wounds of Americans who care about the rule of law.
Instead of allowing the impeachment process to go where credible witnesses lead it, the editors petulantly say, like spoiled children, “It’s too late to look into Russia. You had your chance to do that.”
Give us a break, NYT. You’re behaving like the grade school bully, Donald Trump, while his capitulation to Vladimir Putin, begun in 2016, gets worse by the day.
About 10 years ago, the Republican Party concluded, correctly I believe, that Democracy was not going to serve the long-term interests of the party. The demographic is becoming younger, more ethnically diverse and more socially and environmentally liberal.
Trump has offered them an alternative to one person, one vote democracy: a Putin style dictatorship. Eager to retain power, the entire Republican Party (and its base) has jumped at the opportunity.
1
I have been often told that we are a nation of laws that are applied equally to all including residents, citizens, representatives, Senators, Governors, Police, Tax Collectors, and the accused criminal. My question is very simple. If any one of us were summoned or suppoened to testify, provide documents, or other types of physical evidence and failed to do so, how would we be treated? There is a law forbidding foreign nationals from interfering in the elections of the United States, This includes donating to the party(ies) in question. The President with the Justice Department are the Chief Law Enforcement officers in the country. What is the penalty for violating or encouraging others to have foreign nationals and/or governments interfere in American elections. Whether the interference came from Russia or from Ukraine is not important. What is important is the action, or lack thereof, that has been taken against the perpetrators. Has anything been done? Why or why not? Whose responsibility is that and why aren't they doing their job?
The Times Editorial Board, virtually all of the Times Opinion columnists, and many Democrats have "demeaned" President Trump from the day of his election.
2
@jck
And even were your statement true - how does this absolve the President of his offenses to the Constitution and the people of America?
2
@jck Whereas, if they had applauded Trump, jck would know they are better people.
Shame on them for having different opinions.
only one answer YES. The law, The Constitution, equality, checks & balances are all beneath the dictator wannabe. He wants to rule with no strings or restraints.
1
The Approval Rating of Congress is 20 Percent right now....They did not get that from Trump Demeaning them....They Own it all on their Own!
@There for the grace of A.I. goes I
"Does Trump Think Our Constitutional Processes Are Beneath Him?" I believe that was the question. Did you have something you wanted to say about that?
Trump is demeaning democracy and American citizens and ripping this country to shreds.
1
Donald Trump demeaning Congress!? He doesn't have to demean them. His Republican lickspittles are doing a pretty good job of it all by themselves.
Like the puppets they are, Trump pulls the strings and they dance to his tune.
1
@Sid Wait, Sid. They're "doing it all by themselves" ...while he's pulling the strings ?
Why are we still talking about this?
@Zach
Same reason you're still talking about Hillary.
Yes, Trump demeans Congress....but we have no idea of what "de mean Congress" actually means to do beyond nothing.
After the smoke clears and the impeachment is dropped into the bio-degradable bag for later use, we will remain confronted by a two-party Congress which has done nothing but continue to continue wasting what we elected them for.....serving ALL our republic. Their record is "zip."
"It doesn't take a barrel to know it's bilge," Hardy wrote many years ago. It still smells.
1
He won't mount a defense because he has no defense. The size of the benefit of the doubt this guy continues to get must absolutely blow him away. He has been asking to get his tail kicked since Day 1. Sometimes I wonder if there isn't a sick attraction (or something worse) about his gangster vibe and connections among the dizzying heights of our meritocracy. Epstein seemed to do well there. Why do you let this go on? Trump should be a figure of absolute contempt by now, and living in disgrace. Don't tell me this fool has hidden his trash so well. Really am wondering if you are going to just end up rolling over for him like you did for the Iraq War.
1
I'm sorry, but this Opinion by the Editorial Board of the NYT is just another attempt at finding some rationale for Congress to proceed with impeaching the Mr. Trump, our elected President. Now we hear that Mr. Trump is 'demeaning Congress' in that he has made obvious his (rightful) contempt of Congressional Democrats. Yes, Congressional Democrats, who have waged a very political and partisan attack on Mr. Trump, unable to convince one Republican (let alone convince all members of the Democratic Caucus). Please NYT, publish at least ONE piece on the obvious political games being played by the Congressional Democrats instead of presenting, without question or even a comment, this Caucus as a venerated Constitutional savior!
1
the senate will be able to demonstrate that the democrats in congress abused their power and violated their oath toward the constitution. Hopefully then it sinks in to the general populace the illegality of this impeachment. Turley (who voted for Clinton) provided a strong argument for that position. But instead, we currently see these nonsense editorials and echos in the comments section by the left wing.
1
Throw the book at 'em!
Trump has committed many offenses. List them all! Drown him in them! His legacy is at stake even though the verdict of his trial is predetermined by politics. Give his hangers-on ample opportunity to befoul themselves before the American public.
Trump and his followers are a pack of hyenas, not a pride of lions. Deny them the respect due the offices they dishonor!
To the Editorial Board:
Can we please quit arguing "Donald Trump is Demeaning x, y and z etc.?"
I say this because this is what he does. He ran on demeaning others, and the media just gave/give him their undivided attention, hence making him a daily/hourly/never ending top subject -- precisely what he loves.
Can we please quit acting like we expected better?
I guarantee you that the less you mention his name the more worried he will be about his future.
Media? Wake up. You are the ones keeping him going by falling for every trap he tosses out.
Be a bit more selective in your coverage of him and yes, it will freak him out.
Pretend you are the guys in the SNL skit, you know, where he was told by the PMs of Canada; France; and the UK; that the 4th seat was taken.
Stop giving this dude the seat every hour; ever minute of every given day.
If you do that, he will freak out about his future.
2
Why should Trump help with this witch hunt? The people should decide in November whether the President continues, not the corrupt, lying Democrats, led by Schiff, Nadler and Pelosi. This is a pathetic attempt to overturn the 2016 election and the will of the people. I get it, all the fake media said it was a slam dunk for HRC, but the people said no. So the Dems got mad and decided to try and get even, well it's going to end with the President still in office. Total waste of taxpayers's time and money, which is the only thing the Democrats know how to do.
1
Republicans are ride or die with Criminal Trump because they realize there won't be a republican party post-Trump. Everything they stand for is toxic with a majority of Americans.
At what point do we begin to recognize the real source of our problems? The problem is us, the American people. We voted these creatures into office and will probably do it again. It certainly no revelation that they are scoundrels. We spend half our lives on mindless gossip engines like Facebook and Twitter. Liberals deluge the internet over a silly exercise bike commercial while immigrant children die in detention centers. We’ve become fat, lazy, and stupid and proud of it. We vote based on our basest human instincts if we vote at all. You can be assured that plenty of Democrats voted for Trump so it isn’t simply a Republican issue. America has always had strains of racism, white nationalism, bigotry, anti-intellectualism, fascism, authoritarianism, theocracy and classism running through its veins. The Trump phenomenon is a backlash against decency and there’s a good chance that he and his shameless ilk be re-elected and we have only ourselves to blame.
Pffft. The GOP has been doing this since 1981/Reagan, determined never again to endure another Watergate.
i.e. The Republican party and GOP voters will throw the nation under the wheels of the bus to prevent one of theirs again CAUGHT, impeached or have to resign.
While Republicans acted in an honest bipartisan manner with Nixon in 1972-1974, the party immediately turned around to hide and dismiss Reagan's Iran-Contra 1981-1986 crimes. Lasting proof to the nation and to future GOP presidents that anything goes, and that Republicans don't care about laws of the land, guilt vis-a-vis honesty and good governance.
Why won't Republicans at least look at the evidence and judge then? Are they afraid of seeing the truth about Trump? Are they so far ethically compromised that they see it but will do nothing about it? Are they afraid to lose they positions in Congress? Are they bought and paid for?
I hear no denials of the facts from them, only tired statements about Democrats. Without their clear headed evaluations of the evidence I can only conclude that their motivations must be one of the above and that they are as corrupt as their hero, Trump.
There's no need to ask this question.
It's too bad so many Americans feed on the FOX pabulum all day. They will never understand what a terrible man they elected and continue to support, what a danger he is to their country, and how deeply his actions have affected the standing of the USA in the rest of the world.
1
Your Opinion fails to recognize the obvious. Trump knows the so called processes are empty and meaningless do to his life experiences with the law. He is now simply demonstrating it on a larger stage.
He also knows that there will be no repercussions as his base and enthralled politicians will do nothing. This is the classic example of those who are authoritarian leaders and dictators.
If you ever wondered why their people/subjects put up with them, look no further than the current state of affairs with the Presidents party and the US generally.
It's about respect. Mr. Trump respects no one. He has required everyone in his party to lose self-respect. He has demanded Republicans in Congress lose respect for themselves and their office. He has made everyone in his administration abandon self-respect. He has lost the respect of friend and foe internationally. His lies have proven he has no self-respect at all.
All in the name of a presidency that has no respect for precedent and ethical behavior.
Donald Trump has lived above the law all his "charmed" life. He has put contractors out of work in his development scams, used illegal labor, evaded taxes and illegally obtained financing --then gone bankrupt--repeatedly. He has had multiple trysts with various women, most likely committed adultery, and basically does whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Many of his fans, the so-called "base," probably thinks this is all cool. After all, the thinking goes, the system is corrupt anyway, just like this impeachment process is corrupt--and quite unfair. The fact that he refuses to participate and has ordered his staff not to participate just shows he continues to believe he is above the law. Sadly, our society has devolved so severely, he probably IS above the law.
If Pence becomes President, do you think Republicans would stick with him for the 2020 election?
Are you kidding? Trump and his republican supporters don't even believe in the Constitution.
December 9, 2019
If DJT president could think right; he would never have gotten himself is this constitutional litigation. Have his ego inflation and just unable to get the best from those have attempted to join his leadership are tossed out and he creates his own troubles and as a consequence ruination for America's leadership both domestically and internationally. The result is he is best to learn from the testimonies and apply whatever level of thinking he has to acquire a corrective course to go forward for the good of all in America and the world......
the fact that trump acts like a king is his most appealing trait to those in the base who think he is the chosen one.
a king should grab power and the chosen one deserves it.
meanwhile republican senators think they have been annointed princelings under this king.
who of these toadies would ever bite the hand that feeds them power when in fair elections they know they would be slaughtered by an ungerrymandered majority.?
the solution is the NPV interstate compact that voids the intentional gerrymandering of the electoral college from 200 years ago.
1
How anyone supports this man as president is beyond the pale to me. But his fellow Republicans like and support his upending of democracy.
Sadly, we will suffer from the effects of his policies for decades to come
I believe, yet am definitely not sure of this, that when Johnson and Clinton were impeached, they weren't also sucked into the tentacles of other judicial districts such as the SDNY for their alleged criminal behavior. Let's just hope that at least the House
follows through with the implementation of its legal imperatives and that the rest of any and all other relevant governmental authorities follow suit.
Time for those sworn to uphold our constitution to wear a belt as well as suspenders when bringing our criminal-in-chief to justice.
1
This editorial talks about “an earlier time” when Trump’s behavior and attitude toward Congress would not have been tolerated and a bipartisan majority would have brought Trump’s “administration to its senses“.
Why don’t we just admit the current sad fact that after two terms by an only half-white president Obama and the formation of “tea parties” and vows to obstruct everything he tried to do—
Republicans will defend Trump no matter what he does, to stay in power.
4
“'Where the president’s misconduct is aimed at corrupting elections, relying on elections to solve the problem is no safeguard at all,' concluded a report by the Democratic staff of the House Judiciary Committee released Saturday. If that is the strongest, clearest case for impeachment of the president, let the Senate consider that issue, and that issue alone."
The logic of this paragraph is highly questionable. The quoted sentence was, in context, essentially the straw that broke the camel's back, since Speaker Pelosi had hoped to avoid an impeachment process that she (correctly) foresaw would be divisive, distracting, and potentially self-defeating when the President is an unprincipled, narcissistic demagogue and is being both supported and exploited by a cabal of equally unprincipled oligarchs with their tame propaganda network that has given him a cult following.
But the fact that this final outrage -- that we can't trust the election to throw the crooks out, because the crooks have corrupted the election process itself -- is the straw that broke the camel's back, does not mean that impeachment should address only this final outrage.
We had plenty of reasons to throw them out already. They were reasons that rose to the level of impeachable offenses. Now that the election has become potentially too tainted a way of addressing them, there is no reason not to address them in the impeachment. In fact that is all the more reason to include them.
1
Citizens of the USA, we need to impeach and remove Trump from office because we don't need a future Democrat or Republican version of a bolder Trump.
It is now or never.....
4
I think Trump is an excellent representative for this country. He embodies almost everything our leaders extoll.
At its base, the power structure in this country is criminal and corrupt. That's him.
If we want to change we have to elect a president that is running not for personal gratification or narcissistic desires, but because they believe in a better country and they know how to get there, and they're in a position to possibly carry it out.
Neither Trump nor Obama met this standard. The Clintons don't meed this standard, nor did Al Gore.
We have a couple of them running for the Democratic party nomination. I'd like to see the so-called political experts play dumb in this election cycle. Pretend you don't know anything, people (in reality you don't know much!). Another cycle of political scientists running this country could put it in the grave forever. Political scientists are immoral. Elect from immorality, expect am immoral country. That's what we have now.
This editorial talks about “an earlier time” when Trump’s behavior and attitude toward Congress would not have been tolerated and a bipartisan majority would have brought Trump’s “administration to its senses“.
Why don’t we just admit the current sad fact that after two terms by an only half-white president Obama and the formation of “tea parties” and vows to obstruct everything he tried to do—
Republicans will defend Trump no matter
2
If Trump thinks, it’s about himself only, or lying or putting children in cages,(eight have died.)Also making money off your hard work
And being in his own eyes above the law ,unlike the rest of us.He is only a human ,nothing more, and desperately in need of education in democracy.
"Does Trump Think Our Constitutional Processes Are Beneath Him?"
Oh, dear editorial board...how can you even ask? But of course, the answer, proven so many dozens, hundreds, of times, and hundreds of times before his election, of course is: Yes!!!
2
Donald Trump only knows how to live a corrupt life. He thinks he's done no wrong because he knows no other way to conduct himself. Not an excuse but a possible explanation of his behavior and demeanor.
3
I have had it with anyone who presumes that Trump is not deserving of impeachment. I will go one step further: Trump should be in jail.
2
Mr. Trump, like most Americans, has never read the US Constitution. The institutions that provided his basic education never felt that topic to be necessary. And the higher education institutions that prepared him for high office never equipped him to understand that the Constitution and case law that form the parameters that define and limit the powers of the presidency.
The USA has recreated the basic weaknesses of ancient Rome, and now we are confronted with a Julius Caesar rebellion by persons who do not accept constitutional law.
1
@Sequel
I would venture to compare Individual-1 with Comidus rather than Caesar ...maybe Nero....?
@Blank Naw -- Julius still acknowledged the rules; he merely twisted them into unrecognizability. Commodus, like Caligula and Nero, had become divine.
If someone could explain the movie "Phantom Thread" to me, however, I might agree that suicidalism is merely a subjective perception that requires an external saviour such as a loving spouse. But for now ... un-uh.
1
So Mr. Pompeo and Mr. Bolton can both exonerate Duhnald Trump and he won't let them testify?!
Doesn't this seem a bit odd, even for our president? They can quickly end this whole impeachment "witch hunt", "hoax", or waste of taxpayers money by giving testimony that they were there with the president and he is 100% innocent.
And he won't let them?! In what universe does an innocent person prevent testimony from people that could completely and totally exonerate him and conclusively prove his innocence?
I believe there isn't one.
Can our president be so noble, so pious, so committed to the rule of law that he is refusing allowing them to testify just as a matter of principle of his innocence?
Please.
The man is guilty, knows it, and will make sure those that know it also say nothing.
His actions are not those of an innocent man.
4
Reading these comments is distressing.
All of the statements from credible witnesses, all of the records of phone calls and text messages - all portraying a consistent, cohesive pattern of behavior by this president that most likely rises to the level of impeachable offenses - and his defenders continue to speak as though Democrats are grasping at straws. The response from the president and his defenders in Congress is that, not only do his actions not rise to the level of impeachable offenses, but the suggestion that they are wrong is so completely ludicrous that the president is justified in dismissing this entire process as laughable, and to ignore any requests to participate! Republicans are essentially convinced that the president has the power to decide the legitimacy of Congress' oversight, and to simply ignore any efforts he deems illegitimate.
And millions of Americans are joining in this nonsense!
Unbelievable!
3
I expect Trump to demean Congress. Donald Trump demeans everything from which he can't derive some personal gain, or worse, which obstructs his personal gains. The people who are really demeaning Congress are Congressional Republicans. It's been surreal and distressing enough to watch almost the entire GOP defending a con man, a fraudster, an amoral, a criminal, and a man with no knowledge of American civics, or care for them, as he's gone about attacking the foundations on which this country is built. He's defended Putin over his attack on our democracy, and has sent his corrupt AG out to try to find ways to further discredit his own FBI and intelligence communities, as usual in service to his own self-interests. But we have really moved into gobsmacked land now with the Republican Party actually using Russian propaganda and lies to defend Trump and, like Trump, attack fellow Americans. The GOP has been headed in this direction for decades. The Atwater DNA is still in the GOP's ethos. I can physically feel the verbal attacks and rage and shrieks of "traitor!" were a Democratic president to do even a tenth of what Trump has done and if Democrats were to defend him/her by invoking Russian propaganda. America has truly become a Trump rabbit hole; we have a cult being run out of the WH, which laypeople loving it and Republican pols too scared to leave it.
2
Trump's contempt for the Constitution and our government is so profound that he really ought to be tried as a traitor, not just an immoral leader. He not only believes that he doesn't have to obey the law, but he also imagines that his favorites don't have to either. His punishment should be to be stripped of his citizenship and sent to live somewhere that doesn't have to abide by American laws. I'm sure Putin has a room in his basement for people who serve only Russian interests ...
1
Does this question even merit discussion? Trump said in public "Article II of the Constitution says that I can do whatever I want."
That's all anyone needs to know.
1
We can always hope that 1 more Big Mac will solve our problems.
2
Trump feels that he is not accountable to anyone, least of all the American people. People and institutions to trump are mere tools to get what he wants, power and personal financial enrichment. He will use and abuse anyone including our branches of government. We need to show him the exit door. The GOP will not remove him so we the people need to come November 2020.
2
Impeachment will succeed, removal by the Senate will not.
Congressional Republicans are guilty of obstruction of their own legislative body and contempt of their own legislative body.They are traitors to their country, to their oath of office, to our constitution while they cower to a corrupt man.
1
"Donald Trump Is Demeaning Congress"
The most understated headline of the day.
2
Conservatives must abandon their blind allegiance to such a dishonest, corrupt and untrustworthy president. If they do not, the inertia caused by Trump's downfall will taint even the marginally respectable members of the GOP for years to come.
There is nothing partisan about impeachment and removal when the president has been revealed to be unworthy of the office.
2
This editorial concludes with: "If that is the strongest, clearest case for impeachment of the president, let the Senate consider that issue, and that issue alone." However, I have to wonder if the writer of this editorial read David Leonhardt's column in today's Times. I think Congress should vote on all 8 counts as outlined by Leonhardt and send all 8 to the Senate.
1
Trump has demeaned the nation. The world not only laughs at him but it wonders how he was elected. His recent rant on then flushing of toilets was as sad as it was foolish and sunk the presidency to the level of reality television. No matter what happens in congress, he has brought on a disrespect for our country that will be hard to undue.
1
Will Trump want a second and third term if his "trumpeters" demand it. To all, beware of what wish for you may get it.
What sore losers the Dems are. They still have not gotten over in nearly four years that the worst US presidential candidate (Hillary) lost to the second worst (Trump.) But Trump has turn out to be a great president.
I will vote for him just for standing up for the US and trying to get our "allies" e.g. DEPENDENTS to pay for more of their defense. Time to end the US taxpayer gravy train.
1
Trump and the republicans are about to go on the offense, and they are a nasty bunch so we can expect Trumpist authoritarianism and boorishness to the max.
The only way to head this off and prevent a head on collision is for the Republicans to stop enabling Trump. The thing is, the republicans have been pushing for a Constitutional Convention for years. They want to overthrow the US Constitution as it is and in it's place establish a fascist theocracy. No that is not hyperbolic, and it needs to be said.
What happens next will determine the direction of the country and effects the whole world.
3
This behavior conjures up the stunning move made by Mitch McConnell when he refused to consider Garland for the Supreme Court. Republicans are so desperate they’re resorting to ugly, illegal, and unconstitutional acts to assert the picture they have for the future of our country. I’d leave if I could. I pity future generations.
1
GOP politicians desperate to stay in power will defend whatever crime Trump commits up to and including betraying the national security interests of the USA. Trump has whipped up his cult following into a frenzy and using twitter and FOX STATE TV he threatens any republican with expulsion fro the party if they dare not defend him. Trump demands loyalty the way Putin, Kim and other dictators do abusing the immense power of the presidency to further his personal interests political and financial. Like other dictators Trump attacks the free press and lies constantly as truth is his enemy and of course sycophants cling on to this corrupt president as he and his family loot away from foreign govts and biz interest.
Trump's ignorance is only trumped by his arrogance. Cannot bring myself to attach the word president to his name -- the thought of doing so brings on waves of nausea.
2
We are now officially one step - the Senate which will betray the nation and the American people - from a Dictatorship.
2
Trump has demeaned the office of the President of the United States.
2
Given his long rolodex of vices and corrupt behavior, Donald J Trump isn't just demeaning Congress; he is an embarrassment to the human race.
His refusal to cooperate is but to be expected. Since when did thuggish people ever respect the rule of law ?
3
If requesting the help of a foreign government to sabotage our elections is permissible, republican leaders should press to amend our constitution to allow it.
i fled the united states six weeks ago. with the attorney general secretary of state and second strongest military in the world (russia) behind him, this will not end well for liberal america.
The Democrats have demeaned their party since the 2016 election.
1
And how is Mike Pence not being investigated?
3
The House is demeaning the Constitution and the Presidency.
@JP
Nope. They are carrying out a defense of your nation and its Constitution. It's too bad you can't see what the rest of the world sees.
1
From day one, he has demeaned America.
1
Not above the law, not him, not you, not me, not above the law.
1
My jaw dropped when I read the TImes' story today, which misleadingly parcels blame for the partisan divide equally between Democrats & Republicans:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/08/us/politics/impeachment-partisan-democrats-republicans.html
Trump only wins when he cheats and lies. Imagine our election if he had gotten away with this! That is the most heinous part of this. Trading our election away. He will still try because he cannot, will not win again unless he does. Make your voices heard loud in November and crush all these bum's.....including McConnell. Demand paper ballots from your local official's. It is critical.
The House was changed; the Senate was not. Both, together, comprise Congress.
While we’re lecturing, don’t you guys have a right-wing issue or three of your own to cope with? A coal-minin’ government, crummy treatment kf refugees, and massive wildfires come immediately to mind...
Congress would some credibility if it had not had a flavor of the week accusation beginning in November 2016. Trump is despicable but Schiff and company are embarrassing.
1
Is it possible to demean Congress?
1
"[T]hose investigations were the “favor” Mr. Trump requested in his July 25 call with the Ukrainian president."
A nit, but a significant one: Trump's "favor" was not the investigations, but their *announuncement*. Thus Trump showed less interest in (alleged) injustice than in *appearing to be concerned* about injustice.
Donald Trump is demeaning Congress? Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees. Don't you see? There is no Congress. There is no Senate. There is only Donald Trump and Fox News.
Journalism, at least the responsible kind, is so busy reporting the absurdities of the day that they have missed the overarching story. Fox and Republicans have spent decades sowing the seeds of an alternate, bigoted and arch-right reality for the least discerning half of the American electorate. Trump swooped in and added the final ingredient, absolute shamelessness, and now America is forever changed. When the President, the Attorney General and the leader of the Senate can offer up a version of events completely at odds with the observable facts and suffer no penalty in popular support, the jig is up.
The most galling part of America's decline into a thugocracy is Trump's total transparency. The man is obviously, blatantly crooked and incompetent and self-dealing and anti-democratic, yet he has overtaken the country and sits, untouchable, on his throne. Any American who ever marveled at how Germans in the 1930's could have allowed themselves to fall under the thrall of an evil leader need wonder no more. It is happening right now, right in front of our eyes, and nothing is being done about it. How are there not massive marches in the streets? The land of the free, home of the brave sounds like a cruel joke now. All brought down by a pathetic huckster.
"Donald Trump Is Demeaning Congress"
And richly deserved, too.
1
Little doubt trump has demeaned congress and our country...but the real ones guilty of demeaning congress has been this horrible repub party who even spout Russian propaganda over the info given to us via our intelligence agencies.
Trump demeans everything he touches.
1
I'm sorry. Donald Trump is demeaning all of us. He is a contemptuous person who has no regard for anyone but himself. To make matters worse the GOP politicos are all demeaning themselves. I don't know how they can look at themselves in the mirror. It is sickening to think that 40% of our country support Trump and his pursuit of killing our democracy and all that is stands for!
Guantánamo. Donald Trump and senior members of his administration are clear and present existential dangers to the United States of America. Remove them from office ASAP then take all to court. But where to imprison a former occupier of the White House? Finally a good use for Guantánamo.
If Trump is demeaning Congress he has done the impossible.
1
Trump has demonstrated his incompetence to be president of the United States. Trump is correct about one thing. The whole world is laughing at US.
IMHO the Republicans in Congress are much more responsible for the demeaning of the Legislative Branch. They are allowing Trump to destroy the very fabric of democracy just for money. They will be remembered as the most cowardly Congressmen.
I think we have to face one thing. Donald Trump is evil. He is an evil influence on the country, it’s institutions and its people. There is no way around this. This is not arguable. He, and Republicans who support him, are essentially evil. In the most fundamental sense of the word. This cannot be avoided, even though people recoil at the Archaic and Gothic sweep of that term. Evil. That’s what Mr. Trump is. He is evil. That sums up this entire debate. Our president is evil and that’s what we’re dealing with. Evil.
1
How can anyone, even trump, demean something as degenerate as congress.
1
It is ONLY the Republicans in Congress who demean themselves.
Having shredded their last vestige of dignity and having abrogated their Constitutional duty of responsible oversight, they have morphed into the three monkeys who see no Trump evil, hear no Trump evil, and do nothing about Trump evil.
While patriotic government employees risked jobs and futures to bring injustice to light, Republican Representatives and Senators genuflect to Trumps criminal conduct afraid of losing their grimy grasp on power.
The stomach-turning Kabuki of Republicans defending this indefensible President is an offensive political sham.
It endangers the continuance of American democracy and is simply shameful!
Preaching to the choir is a waste of time. And we singers should long since have grown weary of singing the same tune. Our time is so much better spentengaging the other side, wherever we find them. The last one I found was my Uber driver.
Once the lines are drawn, proceed in good faith and with good humor. It isn't whether you win them over. It's how you play the game. If you persist and maintain composure, both of you will walk away thinking that "he wasn't such a bad guy." And that's how it gets started.
djt demeans anything he wants to control or is too stupid to understand. To a certain extent, Congress is demeaning itself.
They are a coequal branch of government and have powers they have not yet used. Perhaps it is time they stood up for themselves and started using them.
I would recommend that they start by increasing the capital police force by hiring 400 extra officers from recently discharged US military personnel, MP's if available. They then need to be sure that their jail in the basement is ready to hold miscreants for periods of time greater than 1 month. They need to develop a manual to cover holding prisoners.
The next step is to start using their inherent contempt powers to force testimony from administration officials.
It's almost too ridiculous to contemplate. That the GOP House and Senate members would choose to nullify their Constitutional authority in the service of a President who fails to understand (or accept the limitations of) his role in a bicameral legislature, can only be measured as stupidity on a monumental scale. There are no bright lights shining out of the elephant enclosure in Washington which might explain why they support a President who has waddled into waters far out of his depth. It's perhaps not so much that 'Trump is demeaning Congress' as it is Congress demeaning itself.
1
the best response to your shilly shallying is: better late than never
Of course, congressional Republicans are co-conspirators in this.
1
Trump isn't thinking. He is detached. I wouldn't be surprised if he has handlers making all his decisions and they're scared to death they're about to lose their puppet.
1
Trump’s job, as Putin’s subordinate, is to degrade America’s capabilities where ever possible.
2
I don't know why Speaker Pelosi or some influential Democrat, like President Obama, for example, doesn't just get up and make a speech like the following:
All of you who support Trump in thumbing his nose at the Congress and the constitution should be honest with yourselves. You are blindly supporting a man who repeatedly takes the word of a brutal dictator, Putin, over the unanimous advice of the US intelligence agencies; you are supporting a man who is using as propaganda a false story that Ukraine, not Russia, interfered with the 2016 elections; this story weakens Ukraine against Russia while bipartisan majorities of Congress voted to give $400 million in military aid to Ukraine; you support a man who illegally inpounded those funds irrespective of his motive; you support a man who has professed repeatedly to be in love with Kim Jong Un, one of the world's most murderous dictators; you support a man who took the side of the Saudi Crown Prince against the US intelligence agencies again regarding his brutal murder of a Washington Post journalist and even today you support a man who defends a Saudi killer of US soldiers by telling the nation how devestated the King of Saudi Arabia feels.
What part of this man's behavior or character makes you think that he deserves one more minute as president?
3
Donald Trump demeans himself, and us all.
I’ve been watching the news - all of the major cable networks - and reading the papers since this nut job was put into office. And I feel quite informed about all of what is happening right now. I am just blown away by the fact that President Orange refuses to contribute to his defense whatsoever! But then I am reminded of a quote by Abraham Lincoln: “tis better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt”..
It is just unbelievable to me that these GOP Reps and Senators are supporting and emboldening Trump's blatant defiance of their very own body, Congress.
Without the power of oversight, the Congress is no longer a co-equal branch of government.
The GOP is effectively chopping off their own legs.
We all know the stories leading up to this day. Let's be thankful the parties stopped killing each other's leaders, but the murders are still occurring.
I will simply note the fact that following Trump's July 25th call with Zelensky and his attorney, Giuliani's secret meetings in Ukraine recently and his meeting with Manafort's attorney recently, we should wonder if Zelensky's meeting tomorrow with Putin is a delayed relay.
1
The headline is an understatement. Trump is demeaning America.
Problematic with Trump's ongoing unchecked high crimes and misdemeanours is the fact that Americans have lost the abiity to discern them and to care about them at all. Instead, most of the electorate seems to be content to spend its time focused on small-screen electronics while they drool and gurgle over social media posts in their deliberate infantilism. Trump recognised this long ago and has taken shameless advantage over the stupid childish direction of America's "culture."
1
The House demeans itself... Well, the Democrat side does.
1
There is a case to be made for not electing another President who does not have a law degree. Lawyers and businessmen/women who do not use their degrees to practice law are steeped in the Constitution during their schooling and understand and respect the document better than folks from other professions. A builder who wholly owned and ran his own company without a governing board of directors is the last person who should be elected to our highest office.
An honest, scrupulous elected public servant should never be troubled by a formal investigation into his job performance. Let the impeachment hearings and the trial in the Senate lead to fact findings that will ultimately either clear or condemn the President. It is wrong for either the Chief Executive or the Republican Party to impugn the procedure, which is written into our Constitution.
The Problem with Trump is only loosely tied to his rhetoric. The problems with Trump are his policies (e.g., climate change and his rhetoric to destroy the US leadership in almost every other field like his tariffs that are destroying American farmers, but also his use of his office to punish those who oppose him, but do little to help his supporters in material ways).
Trump's behavior isn't monarchical but autocratic, his stated goal being to transform the nature of the presidency.
"It’s impossible today to predict all the long-term consequences of shattering such norms of political behavior, which have functioned through American history as a sort of unwritten constitution"
Pretty easy, actually, to predict the major consequence. This interesting, two century year old experiment of a nation as a constitutional republic is over.
But the death throes of an extremely large, mortally wounded animal do an awful lot of collateral damage, which of course is unpredictable.
In his opening statement, Daniel Goldman did bring up a portion of the Mueller report, especially Lying Trump's public call for the Russian interference in the 2016 election.
IT's too early to draw any conclusion, but a combination of the findings of Robert Mueller and Adam Schiff will be devastating to Lying Trump and his GOP loyalists.
The public should not be confused between the truth and the GOP apparatchki misinformation.
Let's hope that the impeachment articles will not be railroaded through. Despite the fact that Lying Trump has been de facto taking the Fifth, we still need a full due process.
Trump demeans everybody, because he believes he's better then everybody.
This is just one aspect of why he's unfit for the office.
5
Trump holds the ace.
His call transcript -- it was a masterstroke to release it -- juxtaposed with Biden's quid-pro-pro speaks for itself which one is egregious and which isn't.
When Trump holds the ace, he knows his opponent is stuck with the joker. Why waste time with the circus?
1
@Bhaskar
You might want to recall that the 'transcript' isn't an official one. It's a reconstructed one based on Trump's recollections. (per the WH official release statement) And that reconstructed one doesn't make him look 'Pure as the driven snow' either.
Trump's legal strategy over many years has always been the same - drag things out until either the system changes or his legal victims run out of money. He's done that with creditors, contractors, people he's defrauded, etc. He's trying to do that now with the expectation that if he cries that HE's the one being abused and manages to stretch this out long enough, either people will get bored, or they decide that there must be something wrong with his accussors because they haven't come to a conclusion yet - in spite of the very real fact that HE's the one dragging it out.
He's not really that smart, but he is a survivor. The problem is that his notion of success, enrichment, and survival only involves him - not you or anybody else.
2
@Bhaskar
The real transcript has not been released. Remember? The recording of the call is hidden somewhere so nobody can actually hear it.
If the White House would only release it, the American pubic would know the truth and if there is really nothing wrong in what Trump said, there would be no need for these hearings. Innocent people don't hide things.
What you call a transcript is really a deception; it is what Barr and Trump wanted you to see. It is not the truth.
Trump is very skilled at using the law and savy lawyers to ware down, subdue and overwhelm his components in order to skirt justice and accountability for his illegal and immoral actions. He’s using due snail pace of litigation to run out the clock and unless republicans find a backbone, it just might work.
2
Your editorial follows the customary anti Trump blasting you are so adept at.I particularly liked the description
you provide of the editorial board as wise etc.however completely unable to trumpet their unbiased political opinions
since they do not exist.As for the charge that Trump is treating Congress with contempt I would suggest no more so than the great Adam Schiff
is treating the American public with contempt over his fraudulent impeachment inquiry held for the most part in secret.
1
@Able
Wow, nothing was "in secret", half the people at the hearing were Republicans with full privileges and you have bought their lies. Sad.
2
@Able
The GOP and Trump were given the opportunity to participate, and they refused.
If there was any evidence that Trump did nothing wrong, the White House would have released it.
2
Trump has pretty well demeaned the country. And nothing will happen, he defied the House, the GOP is behind him, and we will just have to limp through to the election and hope he loses.
4
@David
Reagan ought have been impeached and removed for his illegal Iran-Contra gun trafficking scheme that also involved Israel, a 100% violation of the Boland Amendment on about 10 levels that began in 1981, not 1985 as many still erroneously believe.
The GOP got off scot free, thanks to Weinberger and others taking the fall for idiot Reagan + thanks to his veep and former CIA head George H.W. Bush, who immediately pardoning them once he assumed the Oval Office in 1988. U.S. mideast and international policy has never recovered, in no small measure due the thumb on scale Tower Commission and the Reagan admin claiming the Democrats in control of that pre-McConnell Gingrich Congress were part of a "witch hunt".
Sound familiar?
The answer to the question posited in the title to this piece is an unequivocal yes. Trump has no respect for the Constitutional order and the idea of checks and balances. His Republican enablers have allowed this to continue unchecked. With each line drawn in the sand which Trump has ignored, has enboldened him to pursue even greater crimes. Even now as he is threatened with impeachment over the Ukraine extortion and bribery scheme, his attorney, Rudy Giuliani, is in the Ukraine trying to drum up support for the very same scheme which is pending in Congress as a basis for impeachment. This is a direct mockery by Trump of the Congressional process and in essence the Constitution. Trump is a fascist dictator and authoritarian, who respects neither the law, nor our Constitution, and he needs to be removed from office. Any other choice, would be a dereliction of duty by the members of Congress. The fact that the GOP is not behind this, shows they have more allegience to their party, then to their oaths to support and and defend the Constitution.
2
Trump's enablers are demeaning congress.Trump's enablers are satisfied giving Trump the power of an absolute monarch. The party of Trump jumps through hoops to avoid the ire of Trump. We need to stop acting like Trump is doing this alone. Trump has made us the joke of the world and no one on the Right seems to care. Trump plays a few rounds of golf with some and let others fly on Air Force One and they are willing to betray their oath to the country. Watching senators like Cruz, Rand and Graham defend Trump says so much. These men of weak character kissing the ring of Trump is disgusting. Knowing that Trump's sycophants in the Senate will never no matter what the evidence is convict Trump is disheartening. Pelosi has more steel in her spine than all of Trump's merry men.
3
It is truly demoralizing to all who believe in our Constitution to have a leader who believes he is a King. A somewhat pathetic fantasy which the courts have failed to uphold for him. Yet he demands utter obedience from members of his own party and receives it in ways that are truly disturbing. The complete surrender of power by members of his own party is simply disgusting. Like trained parrots they spew forth talking points created by him and show little courage to stand up and live up to their election duties. Their fear and cowardice is far more troubling to this American.
We have three equal branches of government in our country. I demand that the legislative body behave like a creative force for my tax dollars. You want to belong to a cult created in the Oval Office? Resign and go to work for him.
Either you work for the voters or you work for him. 2018 elections already sent you a strong message. Miss that??
2
Trump must be removed for us to trust anything out of the Congress in the future. Barring that it's time for a second revolution.
1
The editorial board confuses the Mueller report by labeling it “the Russian affair”, then “the Russian matter.” Call it what it was: Trump calling for and accepting Russia’s help in winning the election.
Likewise, the editorial board refers to “the Ukraine matter or affair” but should call it bribing a foreign power.
In addition, the board has conveniently forgotten that Barr muddied Mueller’s report so that the public for over a month were confused. Mueller himself had to come forward for 8 minutes to clarify that had he found that Trump was exonerated, he would have so stated.
Consequently, the Democrats had a hard time for months to straighten Trump’s blatant lies.
All this is to say that the American public did not pay millions of dollars for a report by the special counsel that should now be discarded because of the lies that Trump embellished around it.
In fact the Mueller report establishes the many times that Trump obstructed Justice, the bedrock of the necessity of his impeachment as soon as possible. If Mueller were not forced to abide by the nebulous belief that a sitting president couldn’t be indicted, Trump would not be in the Oval Office now. And if Mueller had interviewed Trump, he would have been indicted for lying under oath. Finally, if Mueller had been given free reign to investigate Trump’s finances regarding Deutsche Bank, Mueller would have found the direct links to the Kremlin, and Trump would be guilty of treason.
3
Clear and present danger. Not a movie, our sitting President.
4
I truly enjoy reading comments from those mental contortionist readers who find incredible ways to twist Trump’s ignorance into political sagacity. Trump’s loquacious supporters are the Olympic gymnasts of political discussion.
What does Don need to do to awaken his hypnotized “base?”
3
"Donald Trump Is Demeaning Congress"
The Congress is doing a pretty good job themselves.
1
It is Republicans in Congress who are demeaning Congress.
5
I think that the House should summarize the evidence against Trump in the Mueller Report. And also mention the letter signed by hundreds of former federal prosecutors stating that such behavior met the legal definition of obstruction of justice.
And any other impeachable or quasi-impeachable offenses such as abuse of power, etcetera, to provide depth and context as to just who this monster president is.
Everything is relevant. Trump has likely been a Russian asset since the 1980's:
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-putin-russia-collusion.html
https://www.google.com/search?q=house+of+trump%2C+house+of+putin&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS832US832&oq=ho&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59l3j0j69i60l2j69i65.3454j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
He demeans everything and everyone he comes in contact with. So, no surprise here.
Even FOX news followers know Trump is a crook but they will still vote for him. Yes the senate will probably not impeach Trump but the truth is out, the American people will vote out the most corrupt President and his crony's in 2020.
What Congress should do is just defund this White House, let Trump pay for it all. We all know he wont spend one penny of his own money as he has none he is the king of debt.
When did it become appropriate for the defense (White House) to speak with the jury (Senate) before the trial? 2019-2020.
1
The sacred symbols of our country: our flag and the phrases "In God We Trust" and "E Pluribus Unum" have been replaced by "MAGA" which is a symbol for the cult of one man.
Can’t wait until the Republicans regain the House. Then, if there’s ever a Dem POTUS we now have a quick method to smear the opposed president. Impeach him or her, for anything we can define as qualifying. Whatever that means. Your own NYT article today on the partisan nature of impeachment discusses this now ever present problem.
1
I am always getting Hunter, Ivanka, & Jared confused. Which are the ones with White House offices & forged security clearances?
4
Anyone who doubts Trump's allegiances. just stop talking and read all his policies. And make sure to see how he has slowly overturned every great policy Obama enacted for the American people. Spite and jealousy have never hurt so many innocent people just for the childish whims of a very small man.
Trump is Don the Demeanor - along with many other "qualities". It is right and correct for the House to defend itself and do its Constitutional work despite Trump's actions to demean them. However, beyond speaking about his efforts here, the House can step back and be less cooperative themselves. The House should string out the Impeachment, past the SOTHU in January, asking repeatedly, publicly, and frequently for Trump to allow any and all witnesses to speak and at the same time ask the courts to compel those witnesses to come forward. In the third week of January when most likely both of these measures fail, the House then votes to Impeach, making Impeachment a reality. However, the House should deny the President, the McConnell Senate, and the GOP in general the opportunity to conduct the Removal Phase of Impeachment right away, of which the GOP would use to deride and belittle the Impeachment. House leadership could ask the Impeachment Managers under their authority to simply not assign those who are to argue the case before the Senate Jury. More procedural and legal maneuvering would ensue about this delay, but it would keep the issue in the news for the electorate which is something Trump does not want as the Election Cycle begins.
1
I think the Senate trial will focus on the Ukraine. A competitor of yours did some fine investigative reporting back nearly two years ago on the Ukraine's efforts to meddle in the election:
Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfires
Kenneth Vogel and David Stern 'Politico', 01/11/2017
"Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found. "
I don't think Congress has anything to worry about from Trump. They've done an excellent job at demeaning themselves already. When you accept legal bribes in the form of cash payouts from corporations and oligarchs, you really can't argue that you have any integrity.
1
The GOP has thrown up myriad unfounded conspiracies & theories dimly described through billlows of smoke reflected in funhouse mirrors. The GOP will be wandering lost in that limbo for a long time.
1
@KEF "The GOP has thrown up myriad unfounded conspiracies"
Yes, "thrown up" is the appropriate term.
The House should impeach Trump knowing he will
be exonerated in the Senate. Then impeach him again when he commits another crime, and he will. The corruption of his administration should be remembered forever by future generations when they vote.
2
I’ve had about all I can take of the continuous caterwauling and repeated attempts at overturning the 2016 election from this newspaper and its readers. This witch hunt has become a farce:
The Ukraine government did not investigate the Bidens although the US Congress clearly should have. A son of a major politician who gets thrown out of the Navy for abusing illegal drugs and then winds up on the Board of a shady foreign company controlling $1B should automatically be suspect.The Ukraine government ultimately got its American aid without giving anything in return.
As a practical matter, foreign aid is almost without exception granted on the basis of some quid pro quo. American voters would be outraged if they were not getting something for their tax money going to a foreign government. To claim otherwise is as disingenuous as Captain Renault being “shocked, shocked” that there is gambling going on in the Casbah.
Mr. Trump is being impeached for purely partisan political reasons; there is zero chance that he would be removed from office for his alleged transgressions. In so doing, the House has demeaned itself for squandering the people’s money on this pointless partisan squabble.
1
@JTS "I’ve had about all I can take ..."
And still you're here...still having about all you can take. Over and over and over.
"They call it Stormy Monday, but..."
Does Trump think our constitutional processes are beneath him?
Frankly, Trump does not appear even capable of abstract thinking (whether life-long or due to cognitive deterioration, or both). So either he does not bother to try to grasp--or he is mentally incapable of grasping--the abstract nature of the Constitution and laws and why we have such guiding principles.
Saturday night, we watched Scorsese's film "The Irishman," and I kept thinking this is how Trump rules and governs--like the corrupt organized crime characters and union bosses depicted in the movie. The acting was superb, and Pacino's portrayal of the ruthless, narcissistic, hothead Jimmy Hoffa reminded me of how Trump leads and governs--through fear, intimidation, cruelty, and thoroughly reckless means.
Not unlike the faces of the audience at Trump rallies, there was a scene in the film where Hoffa is giving a rousing speech before a bunch of union guys, who gaze at him admiringly and appear to have given themselves over to this strong-arm, authoritarian rhetoric.
No, Trump doesn't see the constitutional processes as beneath him. He doesn't even give the Constitution or the consequences of his actions a moment's thought.
The admirable party of Lincoln has taken a steep downward plunge to the thoroughly corrupt party of Trump.
Their (Republican) strategy is to pretend the impeachment process is unimportant.
The Editorial Board is hedging while the Republic has hit the iceberg and is taking on water.
While NYT would love to drive subscriptions by pursuing "the story" for another 3 years , the cases against Trump are clear.
The role of NYT is to report the news and its findings. For that I am appreciative as a subscriber and citizen. But Trump needs to be stopped, and Pelosi finally took a stand. We may look back and credit her for saving the Republic.
To state the obvious - it is NOT a constitutional process - it is a political process grounded in a modest capacity within the constitution.
Trump must lose the next election but he is playing the Dems and the Grey Lady's editorial board like a violin.
I think in terms of substance there may case that can be made that Trump has committed high crimes and misdemeanors. However, in terms of process, I fully agree with the Republicans. The Democrats have denied Trump the due process afforded Clinton. They have unnecessarily conducted hearings in secret in order to control the narrative through selective leaks. They have controlled the witness list with an iron fist. They have not negotiated in good faith over Administration claims of privilege. They are proceeding on the thinnest evidentiary record, and most importantly on an insufficient evidentiary record given that too often they are relying on inferences, presumptions, and hearsay to make their case. I find their refusal to allow the courts a few weeks or months to adjudicate issues of privilege to be heavy handed, inexplicable, and counterproductive. If you are going to impeach the president, probably Congress’ most weighty duty, you must take the time to do it right, and must you proceed in a manner that is manifestly and unimpeachably fair to the president.
2
@Charles
Trump has been offered the opportunity to defend himself over and over, and he has refused.
If he had any exculpatory evidence, he would have produced it by now. He hasn't.
The United States constitution has had a good run of 230 years. It was good while it lasted.
2
From this lawyer's perspective, portions from the Mueller report evidencing obstruction should certainly be listed as impeachable offenses.
2
" ... hear from material witnesses like Mr. Pompeo and the former national security adviser, John Bolton ... "
It's not over till the Senate votes. It will be interesting to see whether Pompeo, Bolton, and the other non-compliant administration officials can be called as witnesses during the actual trial. If privilege or immunity is claimed ... it will be interesting to see how Roberts manages points of law that will in any case wind up before his court.
I am not sanguine on the outcome of the trial: the Senate has already shown itself to be packed with toadies. Trump's actions demean the House, have poisoned the Senate, and have (despite his claim's and those of Barr) greatly weakened the prestige of the presidency.
The only thing Trump fears more than the impeachment process is the notion that Americans and the world might soon see his tax returns.
1
It makes perfect sense to refer back only now to the Mueller Report for Obstruction of Justice. On it's own, that report does not establish a pattern of obstruction, just an occasion - but now in conjunction with current circumstances that persistent pattern of obstruction is well-grounded.
2
I am no lawyer and most Americans don't understand legal text. This goes a long way towards explaining why so many Americans are confused about the concept of Russian "collusion". Although collusion is the term that journalists and political commentators have embraced to describe Trump's long-term coordination with Russian oligarchs to corrupt our elections, it is a term with no legal meaning.
To avoid confusion and the absurd, nonstop gaslighting by the GOP, and convey the truth of Trump's corruption, the articles of impeachment should simply state:
The President has placed his own personal interests and the interests of Russian oligarchs above the interests of The United States or America and he cannot stop lying about his betrayal of the American citizens that he was elected to serve.
3
The editorial states that Presidents Nixon and Clinton were both more compliant with Congress, and claims that "those were different eras." This is certainly true, but only partially explains the behaviors of those two Presidents when compared to Mr. Trump.
I have stated many times during the 2016 presidential campaign, and since, that one of the important aspects of Mr. Trump's attitudes is that he has spent his life in privately-held business, not in stock-owned companies or in the public sector. He has never been accountable to anyone in his business life, and did his best to undermine any accountability that became necessary to advance his interests (shirking subcontractor contracts, shifting blame and financial consequence for failed ventures to partners). Even bankruptcy did not deter Mr. Trump from facing the music for his many missteps and business misdealings.
Whatever one thinks of Mr. Nixon or Mr. Clinton from a moral/ethical standpoint, both were experienced government operatives and politicians who, in their own ways, were creatures of that environment. They respected the underlying structures of the institutions and felt a certain obligation to preserve them, even to their own detriment.
Mr. Trump's experience sees government more as an obstacle to be overcome in the attainment of personal goals. The mammoth divide between the political parties only exacerbates this and encourages Mr. Trump to treat Congress and necessary governmental values with disdain.
3
While Trump continues to show no respect for anyone or anything other than himself, Congress also has itself to blame for not standing up to him and doing its job. Congress keeps kicking the can down the road on so many things (true healthcare reform, infrastructure, passing a budget for example) and instead focuses on politics and getting reelected.
They should, instead, focus on doing the business of the country and its citizens. Stand up to their responsibility. Tariffs are Congress' job. Pass a budget, fix the roads and bridges. Take back control. Term Limits anyone?
2
The Democrats are making a big mistake.
By hurrying the process, and not forcing the testimony of administration officials, they are leaving powerful compelling evidence on teh table.
By not waiting for and then forcing that testimony they add to the sense this is a hurry-up political hit job.
By letting Trump, et. al. get away with they are setting the precedent that the President is not accountable to Congress.
Slow down. Do it right. Go Big.
7
In my opinion, the main offense is the president's obstruction of justice, including forbidding executive branch personnel from testifying to Congress. I think that we have reached a juncture reached in Britain at the time of the dismissal of James II, the ascendency of Parliament, and issue of the first Bill of Rights. It is crucial. I look at amazement how Republicans still defend the president. They seem to put their own personal interests first. Money? The Congress is the law making body according to our Constitution. Executive policies and regulations should not be allowed to circumvent laws passed by Congress, regardless of political party.
6
Not just the President demeaning congress, the entire Republican party is just as culpable.
Republicans could put an end to this is a heartbeat by just getting Trump to show his taxes, all of them. If Trump really hasn't done no wrong his taxes would make it crystal clear.
Yet something tells me that is the last thing Republicans want.
10
Wow. And I believe it's the Congress that's demeaning itself and our political system. Just shows how divided Americans are.
2
The Founders were concerned that an out-of-control wholly partisan, House would do exactly what Pelosi is doing today.
This is the tyranny of the Legislative branch.
18
@Cjmesq0 What Speaker Pelosi is doing today is overseeing a well-justified attempt to construct a case for removing a dangerous occupant of the Oval Office from his position of power.
Oversight of the executive branch by the Congress is the keystone of the government our Founding Fathers designed.
42
@Cjmesq0
The truth, my friend, is that the House Republicans are running away from the facts---facts that, left unchecked, lead to the tyranny of the executive
40
@Cjmesq0 You don't understand the concept of checks and balances, do you?
Trump is not a king, much as he would like to be.
43
If we all know the Dems will lose in the Senate, then why not gather and emphasize to the public the widest evidence they can gather?
If there is no chance of winning, history still demands this administration be held accountable -- and all future administrations will have to take note, and be pre-chastened before they lead the country down a similar path.
45
It's not impossible to predict how this ends. Populist leaders have used propaganda to discredit the press and the rule of law throughout history. As a country we're hopelessly divided over basic facts and the written Constitution while Democracy is failing around the globe. The SCOTUS must immediately address this Constitutional crisis before it's too late.
2
The bottom line here after all the smoke clears is there is no mistake, Trump and pals did what the DEMs are accusing them of. The issue is the GOP and friends believe it's ok along with half of Americans, the rest of don't.
7
We are at a crucial point in this country's constitutional history.
The Republicans have a very important choice to make. Will it be to uphold the principles of democracy, our Constitution. the integrity of our country, and to establish a clear precedent for future presidents (whether Republican or Democrat)? Or will it continue to be the Republican party over the Constitution, laws, democracy, and the future of this country.
If it is the latter, I can tell you who really won, and it is not just Donald J. Trump. It is Vladimir Putin.
5
The best strategy to blunt the ongoing onslaught of GOP members citing "process" issues and to ensure the public has no reasonable doubt is to impeach but not begin a trial in the Senate until the court battles to get Bolton and Pompeo, Rudy and others to testify. Let it linger out there and get back to pushing for gun control, immigration reform, health care and other pressing matters that McConnell will not bring to the floor. It doesn't even matter if it gets to election day. The public needs to hear from the 1st hand witnesses and the Dems need to put pressure on the GOP to put up or shut up.
5
The Republicans insist it was the Ukrainians that interfered in the 2016 election.
Why didn’t they investigate this when they controlled the House of Representatives?
6
The notion that trump attempted to corrupt the election in 2020 by asking Ukraine to investigate Biden is utter twaddle. All trump was doing is asking Ukraine to tell us what it knows about about Biden’s activities in Ukraine. Such a request can only result in our knowing more about Biden and make us more informed about Biden and lead to a more informed choice about who should be our next Resident. We should all want to know as much as possible about those who want to be President and we should be considered to have the right to know what any one in the world wants to tell us. And any attempt by Congress to try to prevent us from knowing all we can should be considered an outrageous violation of the Constitution.
2
@Robert Richards "We should all want to know as much as possible about those who want to be President"
Well, yes, so where are Trump's tax returns?
Along with current financial disclosures from Trump Org. regarding income from foreign nationals and oh so many other details about how the current President entanglements.
1
Demeaning Congress, Obstructing it, ignoring Checks and Balances, all strengthen Trump and weaken the Institutions the Framers designed to prevent this. Trump is seriously on his way to becoming a dictator, and his chief supporters are the GOP members of Congress who evince no respect for the Institution they serve.
7
It is well past time for extensive civil disobedience. Our government is in fact collapsing into total chaos and stagnation and we should be marching on DC by the millions to shock our “ leaders” into acknowledging that the republic is crumbling. We should be refusing by the millions to file income tax returns by April 15. We should be occupying the halls of Congress and storming the White House gates. It’s not hyperbole to say that Putin is just a few months away from smoking his total victory cigar. We can’t let that happen.
5
This man and the Republican party have turned the Constitution into a game. It has nothing to do with Ukraine and everything to do with power take over the country.
5
Actually, Trump is demeaning the U.S. Constitution......
Congress is just one part of our government. Trump also demeans our courts.
However, the worst is when Trump demeans the Rule of Law...
7
Even if the House does not want to include separate articles of impeachment for the Russian case (Obstruction) they should make a reference to it in the Ukrainian articles as prove of the behavior pattern.
1
Seems like we are up a creek without a paddle and the Democrats have ensured another four yrs of the Temper Tantrum in Chief. So help us all, including the Republicans, btw they completely own this.
2
It is difficult for anyone to demean an institution like the House. Its own members already do that everyday they are in session
2
That why wont (fill in the blank) testify if he/she has nothing to hide is an awful slippery slope.
Under that standard, when the Senate trial comes up, the Democrats shouldnt have any problem with Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, the whistle blower, Adam Schiff all testifying.
You folks are whistling past the graveyard here. Trump had ample reason to ask Zelesnky to look into the Bidens. We have every right to ask about obvious and blatant corruption, before we hand over 400 million.
Hunter was raking in 1 million per year for a job he needed to show up only 2 days a year for. He never stepped foot in Ukraine. He was working for a corrupt company, with a corrupt owner under multiple investigations, in the most corrupt country on the planet, according to Ernst and Young.
Expecting anyone to believe that Joe Biden holding back that 1 billion to strong arm the Ukranian's to fire that prosecutor investigating Burisma's owner has nothing to do with protecting his son is simply a bridge too far. Its not going to hold. It'll all come out in a Senate trial, which will take out Joe Biden and exonerate Trump in one shot.
Be careful what you wish for.
1
democrats have been trying to bait the president since he won the election. they can't manage to get off their back heels.
1
Trump demeans everything. The people, the country in the world stage, his own family. People from around the world saw the United States as an example of democratic principles, the land of the brave and of the free. Brave are those who are testifying and those who are trying to bring back the country´s values and honesty. But, no one free in the country anymore, everyone is caught up in a web of lies, deceit, corruption, grifting brought about this president and his minions. Yes, many are going about their lives without a thought to what is going on in Washington. But they don´t know that when the Republicans enable this president to violate, unchecked, norms of decency, values and presidential norms, among others, the country will slide down a path where the foreign governments he is so proud of will rule the country, unseen, through him. Time will tell.
6
@Disgusted
Nah, people around the world saw a Chump they could take advantage of. Hundreds of Millions just waiting to come and get a piece of the American Pie. To see their boats raised up by lowering the tide for the American Worker and the American Voter. That's what they Saw. And if that's what you are hoping will someday come back you are going to be sorely disappointed.
If Trump is re-elected "we're going to have a revolution." A famous Beatles' song from the 1960s.
American politics has lost all contact with reality. While this is primarily due to the increasing madness of the GOP, the Democrats also have their share. Old dodderers, elected by money and fighting their meds on all fronts. Their sectarian believers, with foam running from their mouth, preferring shouting matches to getting things done. Denial and greed everywhere. I’ve lost all hopes in US leadership. Unhappy is the land that needs heroes.
1
This entire impeachment charade is just that . George W, Obama, carter, did much more damage that was impeachable than Trump. Can be country imagine what shape we would be in now if Hillary had won the election? As secretary of state, and an officer of the Clinton foundation, the illegal contributions that were made to the foundation by foreign Individuals and governments in hopes of currying favor with the hopefully elected president, would be fair game in removing her from office on impeachable and criminal charges. Democrats should save face and censure Trump,Drop the impeachment, and get back to work.
2
@Pvbeachbum But Trump has already said he would dismiss a censure.
1
This thing is a waste of time for the same reason the impeachment of Clinton was a waste of time.
Let the voters make the decision about Trump.
1
While I believe the House should indeed vote for Articles of Impeachment I disagree that Trump's unwillingness to present a defense is damnable in and of itself.
Under our system of justice, no defendant is ever required to mount a defense. While it is his right to do so, not so doing is not an admission of guilt and is not to be construed as such.
Let the House take the evidence in hand and conduct its business as it should. But refusal to mount a defense should not be an additional charge nor should it be construed as an admission.
We all know already that regardless of the actions of the House; the Senate will refuse to convict. And it will likely make that action in a posthaste mode.
Then it will be up the American people to weigh in on what they think of Mr. Trump's actions.
Unfortunately, I believe that Trump will prevail in November. The pumped economy, buttressed by enormous Federal deficits will not collapse before the election. And as such, regardless of his conduct in office, the American people will opt for a continuation of policies likely to prove foolhardy in the future.
As Bill Clinton reminded us some 27 years ago, "...(I)t's the economy; stupid..." And that is all that's going to matter eleven months from now.
1
Trump and his toadies are not interested in a case. Their strategy all along has been to snub the House and rely on a reality TV show in the Senate, which they will make all about the Bidens and whistleblower.
Nancy doesn't have to play their hands. She could, and should, withhold the articles of impeachment from the Senate until Trump provides the House with the witnesses and documents it is entitled to under the Constitution.
3
"The best course for the House is to present a case for impeachment focused on Ukraine and the danger to the 2020 elections."
I respectfully disagree.
Trump is widely and justifiably regarded by a majority of Americans as a pathological liar, molester of women, tax cheat, draft dodger, stooge of Putin and serious mental case, besides which matters the Ukraine affair pales into insignificance in the minds of most Americans.
It is already a foregone conclusion that McConnell and his Republican accomplices will acquit him of all charges relating to Ukraine.
The best course for the Democrats would be to throw a kitchen sink full of charges up against Trump's Mexican Wall to see which of them, if any, can be made to stick.
My first witnesses against Trump would be Stormy Daniels and the other 20+ women Trump has failed to sue for lying about him.
I'd like to watch Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz go up against them.
After which, Democrats could summon up a host of other witnesses with first-hand knowledge of his other crimes and misdemeanors including Trump University, his charitable giving, his income from hotels and golf courses in violation of the Emoluments Clause and his reckless handling of military and foreign affairs.
Indeed, while the Democrats are at it, let them give us a detailed account of his whole sordid life.
Then let us leave decent, patriotic Americans to decide in November 2020 how best to restore sanity to this country.
4
Let's get to the heart of this situation: Donald Trump is wracked by insecurity. He has himself convinced that, despite enjoying unparalleled support from his rabidly loyal base, he cannot win again in 2020 without cheating. The trouble he's in is of his own making, a function of living a life gaming the system and treating the laws of our nation with contempt. He will escape removal by being protected by sycophant Senate Republicans, but he has dug himself a hole by alienating those who voted for him in 2016 but regret doing so.
6
I really fear for my country the dark path that this president has taken us. I fear that, like George H.W. Bush, Donald Trump wants to finish out his presidency in 2024, and then be succeeded in office by his own offspring.
However, not by one of his elder sons, Don Jr. or Eric., but by his daughter Ivanka. He wants nothing more than to be able to say that his daughter Ivanka was America's first woman president.
We must not, we cannot allow that to happen. Impeach and remove now, God willing!
2
Congress needs no help from Trump, they have been doing a superb job of demeaning themselves for the last eight years. However, the democtats in the last four years have become truly hysterical and irrational about everything and anything Trump. They should contemplate the words of Prof Turley very carefully.
2
The Editorial Board states that "Donald Trump Is Demeaning Congress." Well, we can't be having any of that, now. Perhaps the president should have given the House a trigger warning, followed by a time-out in a safe-space; because when the Senate gets this, the House will need a crying room.
1
Congress is more than deserving of contempt. They’re certainly prolific in dishing it out. Consult Will Rogers.
1
Donald Trump is a danger to democracy!
He demeans everything and everyone that gets in his way.
We are in perilous times and if our citizenry stays silent then our constitution will continue to be shredded. Trump will triumph if we allow him to continue his lawlessness.
Time is running out and our president is joyfully blocking all evidence to keep the clock
running.
Trump will be impeached but the senate will not convict. We will have to work hard to defeat Trump in 2020 so that we can save our democracy.
3
Indeed he demeans everything he touches. The entire nation has been demeaned.
I can't understand why the GOP and his followers don't see this.
It's as if they have agreed to deny the truth right before their eyes in order to rationalize their power, their positions, their votes.
Basically, with Trump; In for dime in for the whole ranch.
A climbdown is now impossible as they have gone along too far now to back out. Their pride won't allow it.
They are all completely vested in Trump.
3
Every American needs to know what's at stake here. Our country and our Constitution are being damaged on a daily basis by this imbecilic and corrupt man, and by a GOP mired in fear and power-mongering.
What we're not talking about is the very real danger this man poses to our nation and that of the world order. He's capable of anything and he won't hesitate to tear all institutions down in an attempt to keep himself out of prison and his secrets and finances out of the public eye.
If he's acquitted of impeachment, he will feel empowered and in his righteous indignation, may start a war, sign more misguided Executive Orders, jail more immigrant children, slam world leaders, and seek to punish all those who've sought to remove him. Revenge and avarice are the only two things that motivate him.
It's imperative he be removed. Let this be a gift to ourselves and a remembrance of the sacrifices of those who've come before us, and a promise to those who come after us.
3
Isnt it wierd that Pelosi keeps saying the only thing we will investigate is the Ukraine deal?
Trump grifting other counties into staying at his hotel is so easy for everyone to understand as crooked but no she refuses.
1
Congress has demeaned subverted the gravity and significance of impeachment with this partisan hissy fit. Preordained and scripted from the start, doomed to fail, just a trinket thrown to the fervent base.
1
The Mueller report was released prior to the trial of Roger Stone. Proving that Trump lied to Mueller about his knowledge and involvement with Wikileaks may be more straghtforward than wading through the morass of the Ukrain mess.
3
Trump is hardly showing contempt for Congress. He is simply showing contempt for a Democrat party that has hijacked Congress in order to pursue its a priori agenda of undoing the 2016 election results. Indeed it is the Democrat party posing as Congress that is showing contempt’ for the American voter by both pursuing a relentless witch hunt and neglecting its responsibility to legislate rather than grandstand and conduct kangaroo courts.
1
@JJ Gross Let the record show that you consider Trump's election in 2016, in which Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, to be legitimate -- but regard the 2018 election which gave the Democrats a majority of seats in the House to have "hijacked Congress."
2
@Chris Winter Not exactly. Let the record show that only the Democrats in Congress are in favor of impeachment, thereby proving that it is entirely partisan and agenda driven.
Let's face it, the Founders never conceived of a Constitution that would have to reign in a reprobate like Trump. Only a person of his moral depravity and his absurd fixation on self could expose a terminal flaw in the Constitution. He has revealed its weakness to address the most insidious types of corruption. The only Constitutional remedy left is the limit of two terms...unless he addresses that next!
4
The idea that Congress should ignore all of the violations of law and the US Constitution that Drumpf has flagrantly violated is maddening. He should have been impeached on his first day in office for ignoring the emoluments clause of the constitution. He is not allowed to take any money from any government other than his salary as the unelected president of the US. Foreign governments and American corporations have spent millions renting rooms at his resorts and hotels during his time in office.
Then, the moment he used his own resort as a vacation spot, he violated the constitution again, since he is not allowed to do business with the US government while president. He has billed the US taxpayer for over one hundred million dollars for fees at his hotels and resorts, including the cost of his travel, the rooms rented by staff and Secret Service agents among other expenses and fees.
And there is no question of his conspiracy with Putin and Russian. He has admitted it many times, including a nationally televised interview on NBC. The Democrats can't claim any moral high ground here, as they've turned a blind eye while Drumpf has used the constitution as toilet paper every single day of his presidency. It's time to open their eyes wide, as well as the nation's and the world's, and charge him and convict him of every crime he's committed. Only then can the nation be free of the stink of his time in the White House.
3
1. President Trump Never Impounded Even One Dollar from Ukraine Aid.
2. The statute authorizing security assistance requires Ukraine to crack down on corruption, so our money doesn't end up in the pockets of oligarchs. It mandates:
https://www.congress.gov/114/crpt/hrpt840/CRPT-114hrpt840.pdf
Note: John C. Rood notified Congress in February that the Pentagon was going ahead with the first $125 million in security assistance. Mr. Rood, in his letter, noted that 'there remain areas that require significant attention' by Ukraine, and that the United States remains committed to helping its 'multi-year effort,' suggesting that fighting corruption was seen as a long-term project. By law, certification of Ukraine's progress against corruption and in defense reforms was required before the second $125 million in aid could be provided. An additional $141.5 million in State Department funds were granted to Ukraine separately from the $250 million in security assistance. Half of the $250 million was spent by July. Trump did not withhold "nearly $400 million in military aid from Ukraine."
3. The Trump Administration has increased Military Aid to Ukraine significantly.
See: “Security Assistance in Focus: Ukraine”
http://www.securityassistance.org/fact_sheet/security-assistance-focus-ukraine
1
@Sam Freeman
1. Why did the Departments of Defense and State certify that Ukraine had made substantial progress in reforming its corrupt government?
2. Why did Trump recall Ambassador Yovanovich, well known as a corruption fighter?
2
The Times Editorial Board's advice, to narrowly focus on Ukraine-gate because House Democrats haven't articulated a reasoning for including the Mueller report is simply another example of the lily-livered moderate Republican views that now dominate the Times, in sharp distinction to its prior tradition for standing up for Truth, Justice, and the American way. The reason for including the Mueller Report is that it provides definitive evidence, prepared by a Republican, of numerous instances of obstruction of justice. The House isn't obligated to impeach the president every day he goes off the rails.
2
Cannot agree; suggest the editorial board read David Leonhardt's column today and the many excellent reader comments about it.
1
Donald Trump is demeaning the US Constitution and We The People.
One article should be a clear statement that Donald Trump explicitly violated US election law, specifically 52 USC 30121(a)(2) when he asked ("solicited") aid from a foreign national (Ukraine President Zelensky) in conjunction with an election (he wanted Zelensky to provide "dirt" about Joe Biden and his son, Hunter for use in the 2020 election).
52 USC §30121
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
... or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.
That violation of the law is enough to make impeachment, trial, conviction and removal from office an appropriate response.
The more general offense is the clear attempt by Donald Trump to subvert the working of the US Constitution, so that he can "do whatever he wants," with the assistance of the Republican ... er ... Cult of Trump party.
No man is above the law.
Nobody elected Donald Trump king, emperor or dictator.
Maybe someone should remind him of that simple fact.
3
Speaker Pelosi, House Intelligence and Judiciary Committee Chairs Schiff and Nadler in addition to the majority of the House Democratic Caucus have struggled with two intractable obstacles in meeting their Constitutional obligations of being an effective "check and balance" and articulating an easily understandable counter-narrative to inform the American people about the existential threat of the Trump presidency.
In fairness, the Democrats have in a Trump Administration the unprecedented political nightmare of a pathological narcissist occupying the Oval office being enabled by their Republican counterparts desperately attempting to hold off political extinction driven by the demographic shifts in the U.S. population.
This is the backdrop to one of the gravest actions authorized by the Constitution; impeachment of a sitting President. The Democrats will need to put their sworn duty first if the hemorrhage of justice and truth from our populist Democracy is to be stopped.
The necessity of focusing on the clearest and most easily documented Articles of Impeachment with the most readily available witnesses compels the Articles of Impeachment to be limited to the three primary charges documented in the House Intelligence Committee Report;
I. Extortion to obtain the bribe of unlawful campaign assistance from Ukraine.
II. Conspiracy and obstruction of Congress
III. Abuse of office in furtherance of the aforementioned high crimes and misdemeanors
3
You have the President you elected. A man who has always got what he wanted by whatever means, a man without one second’s worth of experience and no qualifications to undertake the job, and without the personal characteristics that would make him suitable. It is hardly surprising that he commits impeachable offences, divides your country and destabilises the world. What is less understandable is why those who support him think that the appropriate course of action is to cover up his offences, participate in dividing your country and stand by and watch while the world is destabilised.
3
Ha! The president feels the process is "beneath" him? There is little in this life that is beneath Mr. trump.
3
Trump says everything was “perfect”, and there was no bribery or pressure to investigate his political rivals. If this was true, he would have no problems with testifying to this under oath.
Instead, he lies and spreads conspiracy theories in trump friendly spaces (Fox) where there is little to no pushback, and free of the consequences of lying under oath.
Republicans supporting and defending this behavior are traitors. Their allegiance is to trump, and not our great country. They all need to go in 2020
6
1. Republicans Convinced Nixon to resign.
2. No, Democrats did not fight tooth and nail to protect CLINTON. In fact, some Democrats were his biggest adversaries. Get that straight.
3. Neither of the men to which you referred did anything close to what Trump has done.
4. Republicans have turned their backs on their oaths of office!
There are few similarities in this impeachment process to those to which you refer. Why is it that the NYT continues to pretend that the Trump presidency as corrupt as it is is nothing more that business as usual in politics. It is most definitely not.
4
The House should delay the Impeachment Vote until it has either Trump, Mulvaney, Pompeo or Bolton testify to the House Judiciary committee (or the Intelligence committee). This would frustrate Trump since he wants a Senate "trial" where all his loyal Republican lackeys will make speeches of obfuscating facts. Do we really need to hear from these Republicans? Do we really need to hear Trump crow about being "acquitted"?
Even if Trump, Mulvaney, Pompeo or Bolton do not testify before the next election, the impeachment would be held over Trump on delay until these guys testify. This would be better than a "conclusion" by the Senate that Trump will use to get reelected. Do we really want another four years of Trump?
3
House Republicans defend the president saying that we live in hyper-partisan times. They say this largely explains why House Democrats want to impeach him. They say that Democrats have always disliked Mr. Trump. There is no doubt this is true. But it can also be true that Mr. Trump bribed President Zelensky and has obstructed the congressional investigation.
Should we now question the motives of law enforcement officials when it’s clear they do not like many of the criminals they are investigating?
Will Republican members of congress admit they were wrong investigating Secretary Clinton because they didn’t like her? Perhaps they will do us a favor though.
3
Trump, his supporters and the Republicans are waging war on democracy, the Constitution and American citizens. We are quickly losing our freedoms - freedom of the press, freedom to vote, freedom to speak our minds. This is the overthrow of our government from the inside and we are going to suffer terribly.
his whimsical decision, prime time cable tv vulgar statements, constant lies with changed lies for political reasons, and erratic behavior demeaned not only the congress but all world leaders, men, women, children, cabinet members, high level employees. it is irony that he or GOP leaders do not yet realize that world leaders are laughing at US but not laughing with US.
1
I sit here listening to the House Judiciary Committee hearing w/ranking minority member Rep Collins speaking. I wonder if asked to swear on a bible, before God, if Collins, an ordained minister, would state that Trump did nothing wrong and that his behavior is OK according to the Constitution. I ask each of Trump's supporters who identify as Christians or who believe in God to ask themselves if they would feel comfortable swearing before their God that Trump's behavior is "perfect" and not against the Constitution. Saying Trump's behavior was "perfect" w/o being under oath is meaningless as there are no consequences of lying or miss-representing the truth. These Congressional hearing should be about finding the truth and not gaining political advantage. Well, Rep Collins (and the rest of the Republicans in Congress), the ball is in your court; are you willing to put your soul at risk by swearing under God that Trump did nothing wrong? Who is your God? To whom do you owe fealty? Is one man's ego worth destroying our Constitution?
1
In the flat refusal to participate, Trump is certainly snubbing Congress as well as the Constitution. In the short term he has everything to gain and nothing to lose with this behavior. His base, which generally is antigovernment and also composed of many Fox-informed voters, wants him to blow the whole thing up. Since they too believe conspiracy theories and believe that only Trump (and maybe Fox) tells them "the truth," they will agree that the whole thing is a partisan witch hunt. They swallow hook, line, and sinker his message that the Democrats are trying to void the 2016 election and to erase their vote. They elected him to be the destroyer and the bad-boy bulldozing basically the entire Federal government, which is all "the deep state" except for the elements directly related to and worshiping of Trump.
198
@Anne-Marie Hislop The concept that impeachment overturned an election, that is false. If Trump was impeached and removed then Pence (also elected) would be president so all impeachment does it remove a bad person from the office.
What does overturn an election is the electoral college, that takes the will of the people away. Clinton won but Trump took office.
33
@Anne-Marie Hislop
I watched a few minutes of Fox News yesterday. There was some expert former government official ballyhooing about the surge in manufacturing. It's simply not true; it is a lie. And yet Fox News seres this pablum as truth.
17
@Foxrepublican
Right, I get that, but Trump's camp doesn't
7
What we're witnessing is exactly what people voted for. They knew, or should have known, who he was, what he was, and his behavioral patterns, particularly with regards to his perpetuating the Birther nonsense. And here we are, no surprise to me. This guy had nothing but trouble written all over him. And the crowd roars at the rallies. Ugghh...
214
@Larry
Actually Trump lost the popular vote by over 3 million. Problem is the arcane, archaic institution called the "Electoral College".
18
@Larry I think the media failed in vetting Trump's history during the 2015-2016 period. His long career is full of failures, illegal actions, cheating business associates, cheating customers, and huge bankruptcies. This history was not reported adequately. The public accepted the fake presentation of Trump as if he were a successful businessman with no blemish on his record. But his unethical and illegal behavior and his contempt for law were there for anyone to see, they just were not reported accurately.
18
It is a colossal shame that Republicans are oblivious to the potential long-term damage Trump is doing to the country and Constitution.
3
It’s interesting to read comments. In my mind they get divided up into whose opinion hurts the least number of people and who is indulging in emotional satisfaction at the expense of living beings.
It’s clear at this point that Trump’s base, and the toadies in Congress no longer care how he wins. The only thing of importance is THAT he wins.
To too large a slice of our Congress, our norms and customs are treated like the stuffy country club by Rodney Dangerfield’s character in ‘Caddyshack’. It’s just instead of some laughs, we witness the demise of Democracy in real time.
Well, we can’t say we weren’t warned.
1
The Articles of Impeachment should include one that is specific to failure to uphold his oath of office: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." This swearing is the key event that officially begins a presidency, witnessed by the Congress, the Supreme Court and We the People. If a President is to be removed, failure to uphold that Oath should be central to that case. Let that Article of Impeachment enumerate each article within the Constitution that has NOT be executed, preserved, protected, and defended. This the American people will understand.
1
Despite FACTS presented by Trump himself, I'm stunned by the how determined the Republicans are to maintain their power. Why aren't the wise elders of their party speaking out? Bush? Rice? Powell?
Is their silence acceptance? Do they honestly believe it's OK for the president to ask any foreign power for personal gain? Or have they joined the entire conservative party willing to do whatever to maintain power? Unbelievable!
3
Times needs to move along.
Times needs to start writing what it's going to mean in a matter of WEEKS what it will mean to have tyranny when Republicans kick this to the curb. There is a very harsh "future" staring us down. "trump" is going to take this to the MAX in terms of what it means when he is proven to be above the law abetted by his co-conspirators.
1
"If Mr. Trump is so clear in his own mind that he didn’t try to pressure...."
That's a goody-two-shoes postulation "if" I've ever heard one.
Someone who doesn't believe in democracy is in charge of American democracy.
You think that indicates a problem with the system?
181
@Baba
When will some brave soul in the GOP break ranks from the Trump cult to lead the parade rejecting this dangerous, reckless tyrant before it's too late.
The GOP have no idea what kind of emboldened monster they will be unleashing after they acquit him of impeachment charges.
12
@JM
They probably know by now, and don't care. "T" has generally given them the relaxation of the possibilities of government they wanted.
5
The criticism of Republicans who don't stand up to Trump reflects utter ignorance of the American political system. Every sitting President who has sought re-election has won his party's nomination, except for Franklin Pierce, whose failure was caused by the same forces that led to the Civil War.
There have been very bad Presidents and some who may have been bad people, but all prevailed at their party's conventions. The reasons are neither light nor transient. They are built into our system, and now more than ever.
Of paramount importance, the Republican Party may well raise a billion dollars to spend on the 2020 elections. That money is distributed at the discretion of the Republican National Committee. And the committee head, who was appointed by Trump, thinks he is the second coming.
Any Republican Congressperson who stands up to Trump is almost certainly committing political suicide. Poorly funded candidates are a very bad bet. And those in the know, know that if an incumbent jumps off the cliff, he or she will likely be replaced by a true Trumpist, because that's who the Party will give money to.
The mass suicide of incumbent Republicans would help turn the Senate Democratic. Whether it would unseat Trump is unknown. At any rate, the best way to assure that Trump loses party support is to whip up a Civil War real quick. That is the only thing that has ever worked.
I shouldn't have to be the one to spell this out. All I do is comment.
Should more information be revealed about 'high crimes and misdemeanors, bribery and treachery' related to Russia, can Congress have a separate inquiry and another impeachment? Maybe, when that happens, the Republicans will be ready to devote as much effort to their actual oath of office than this president, which is how it had been in the past and should be now. Mueller said he could not get enough evidence to charge 'conspiracy' but that does NOT mean the evidence is NOT out there to be found. The truth will come out eventually. This is who Trump is and has been for decades now. He was NOT humbled by the presidency, but empowered to do as he pleases, till someone reins him in. His corruption knows no bounds. Justice will be served. The day of reckoning will come.
3
@GraceNeeded
Finally, an easy one even I can answer. Adam Schiff has made it very clear that He Has Seen that Evidence of Russian Collusion. Just ask Adam to provide it to whoever can pick up the ball Mueller couldn't get over the finish line. Adam has it right now!!!
Trump's strategy will be simple: use the Senate trial to smear Joe and Hunter Biden and knock Democrats out of the next election. Jordan will yap as usual. Nunes will refuse to answer questions about his phone calls with Giuliani.
Democrats better step up the game and parry.
Enforce subpoenas while moving forward on impeachment. Investigate Trump's perversion of our foreign policy to benefit himself in relationship to Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Why is he always protecting the Saudis, Turks, and Russians and making excuses for their heinous behavior while betraying our allies? Trump is a walking nightmare of national security risk.
167
@Michele
1) Follow the money.
2) ALL roads with Individual-1 run through Putin.
11
@Blank Indeed, money is the key. Probably it is not coincidence that Trump's interest in Russia increased after he lost his casinos and owed hundreds of millions of dollars.
13
Trump has demeaned more than just Congress. He has demeaned the entire realm of political discourse, the basis of all political life. In years past family gatherings could discuss politics peacefully, sharing opposing points of view. No longer, if members support different parties. Discourse should be civil, responsive (answering the questions ) ,and evidentiary (based on real evidence, not on fantasy). We have come a long way removed from these ideals, thanks to Trump. Our political realm---the entire federal system, creeping insidiously even into the judiciary, is tainted by divisiveness, where disrespect, dehumanizing opponents, lies, and fantasy dominate---all thanks to the showmanship and lies of Trump. A divided nation that will never unite unless Trump is removed.
4
When Trump defended Putin’s denial of Russian meddling in the 2016 election against our own Intelligence findings and the findings of the Mueller report would that not be a form of Treason? Working with the enemy instead of his Oath to protect the United States? What is the legal definition of Treason. Is it the same as the Dictionary?
4
Democrats in the house do not constitute Congress. If they want to be considered Congress they need some Republicans in the house as well and they also need support from the Senate. Without these things they do count but they do not have the right to call themselves Congress. And when you the New York Times call them the Congress you're engaging in deception
2
As we remember Trump just fired anyone who aided him on the nuances of the presidency, his poll numbers were way down (since he is president to only the people who voted for him) and the democratic contenders especially the one who was fighting for the soul of America all showed that they all were beating Trump. Giuliani whispers into Trump ear that there might be dirt on Biden son (because there might be dirt on anyone or anything if you have the money and time to dig long enough) and Trump bite. Unfortunately the poll numbers were getting larger for the other side and Trump surrounded by yes people had lost his patience, Giuliani wasn’t delivering fast enough so Trump being Trump jumped in with both feet and landed with a thud. Trump was never capable of being a president in the first place and he is to old and to immature to learn
Trump demeaning congress? I think Congress did that a long long time ago, all by themselves. Trump if anything treats them with far more respect than they have any right to. Don't forget Congress approval rating for years has seldom gone above 20%, whereas the presidents including the past 4 presidents, including Trump has seldom gone below 30%. At least Trump tries (albeit ineptly) to move forward, Congress by comparison squabbles and finger points and postures all day long with no results, no legislation, only reacts...never leads. They should be impeached, not Trump.
1
Trumps lack or participation in no way is a factor in what we wall now will happen:
The House is likely to vote to impeach and the Senate will not uphold his removal.
Let's get this over with so we can watch the Democrats blow the election.
1
@Norville T. Johnstone
Sorry for the typos, new keyboard is not working correctly.
Trump's lack of participation in no way is a factor in what we all know will happen
2
Trump could have held back aid to Ukraine during his first two years on the corruption issue. He could have demanded “investigations” during that time. Why didn’t he?
Zelenskyy ran on anti corruption and quickly implemented changes to previous administrations.
Why hasn’t this been raised? Trump’s answer is needed.
1
Republicans keep saying that we should just let the voters decide in the 2020 election.
The is wrong for so many reasons!
The 2020 election has already been compromised by Trump's bribery and abuse of office. How can we leave it to a rigged election to determine the fate of the corrupt, illegitimate "president" who rigged it in the first place?
Also, Trump is continuing to request foreign influence in the 2020 election. He's stated publicly many times that he will continue asking for and accepting foreign help in winning the 2020 election. He clearly told George Stephanopoulos on national TV that he would do so. He even asked China to investigate the Biden's. And he's continuing to have Giuliani work with criminals in the Ukraine and with his corrupt AG, Bill Barr to further rig the election. So Trump's election interference is very much an active and ongoing crime!
Last, the Founding Fathers debated the need for impeachment, some arguing that the election was sufficient to remove a wayward president. Fortunately they realized that a president who is using his the awesome powers of his office to win the next election must be stopped by some means other than the rigged election itself.
So, Trump MUST be impeached. And God help America if he's not removed by the Senate.
2
The most serious offence committed by Mr. Trump is corroding democracy itself. This is why he found everything political and ignoring the House as the best strategy for his defense. So the particulars of charge against him almost look irrelevant but I suppose we have to pick up a couple of malfeasance.
Let’s get this over with. The sort of second guessing and hand wringing in this editorial seems to ignore the fact that the senate is never going to remove him from office. We all know what sort of corruption is going on. Republicans just don’t care. That’s fine. Let’s have an election then.
1
One of the great lies being told about what the Democrats are doing is why they are going to include an article against Trump on obstruction.
Republicans respond that this is premature because the courts have not yet fully ruled on the subpoenas for witnesses.
The MSM gives credence to this argument with its overall, on going and consistent "Democrat in Disarray" reporting.
But, subpoenas are lawful court orders. There is no need to go to court to enforce what is lawful, since the courts have agreed Congress has subpoena power.
Congress having to go to court to get its subpoenas enforced makes Congress less than a co equal branch of government subservient to court rulings on its (Congress's) use of its constitutional powers. This makes Congress inferior to the Executive.
If you get a subpoena for jury duty, you do not decide you don't have to answer it; you go to court and make your case why you should not serve.
The subpoenaed parties in the Ukraine issue cannot ignore subpoenas. They must show up and then they can take the 5th or claim a privilege, but they must show up.
There is a major distinction between the reason the House is including an article on obstruction and the way it is being reported in media and characterized by Republicans.
Relying on courts to enforce subpoenas could allow a corrupt president to "kick the can" through the courts until his term expires, facing no punishment for his crimes in office.
3
While our country is being shredded, our leaders in Congress have a clear choice. Unless they want to be individually and or collectively held and potentially charged with treason, which is a betrayal of our citizens and constitution, they must impeach and remove the sitting president.
Words, actions and integrity matters. Witnessing the callous and careless choice of words and behavior last week during the hearing, of those wanting to quickly diminish the procedure and excuse or disregard the blatant acts of the president is something one could not imagine in a lifetime.
When ego goes before integrity, when knowingly unethical behavior is tolerated, integrity is extinguished. The integrity of our fine country is at stake.
2
Republicans and Dem's alike have been wringing their hands over angering Trump's "base."
Enough.
Time for Congress, (both D and R), to start worrying about the wrath of the majority of Americans who want this criminal and his gang out of Washington.
1
We are where we are because neither Donald Trump nor Congressional Republicans are acting like patriots, sorry to say. They have proven themselves to be more dedicated to petty party politics than to responsible governance.
We deserve better. Instead, we are on a slippery slope, heading full-steam toward destruction of the system of checks-and-balances we thought was embedded in and assured by the U. S. Constitution.
How interesting and hypocritical, that while pretending to be Constitutional literalists when it comes to things like guns, Republicans and "conservatives," generally, are willingly turning their backs on the fundamental principles of American government so clearly established in the document they hold to be so sacred.
Trump supporters argue that those of us who don't like what's happening should move to Russian to see how we like it. Given a little more time, that won't be necessary. Russia, or at least something very much like it, appears to be coming to us.
2
If the American Congress was Saudi Arabia’s Congress, no matter what they did Trump wouldn’t be demeaning them he would be praising them. (We have to remember his response to the Khashoggi incident and the recent military base incident, both involving and American’s and Saudi Arabia).
Saudi Arabia’s institutions first, America’s second where Trump is concened.
If the Speaker of the American House of Representatives was the Prime Minister of Israel, she would be doing no wrong in Trumps eyes.
He defends Saudi Arabia and Israel and demeans America in practice.
@Thomas
Excuse this terribly written comment.
The point I was trying to make was that Trump will always make excuses for and defend Saudi Arabia and Israel no matter what they do.
At the same time he never misses an opportunity to put down and demean the very government and constitution of his own country.
Who is he really loyal to?
The Times quite correctly sees Trump's monarchial behavior but had a much more difficult time discerning monarchial behavior when Hillary, the wife of an impeached president, presented herself to be a candidate for president and Democratic standard bearer. Many voters honestly see that as a double standard and helps explain why the Democrats are having such great difficulty in moving the dial.
It is almost as if we are all being played by the Russians.
What will happen if Trump looses the 2020 election and the GOP, Republican Russian collaborators, the Fox propagandists, and Trump himself refuse to concede the loss of the 2020 presidential elections?
Because you all already know that is exactly what they will do. They have done it once already and succeeded.
In the meantime the impeachment proceedings will be turned into a joke in the Senate as Republicans continue to demean and degrade all our institutions because they believe that party and winning are more important than country.
1
Donald Trump as did Barak Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton and a long list of prior imperial presidents have also demeaned congress. And perversely, congress has done so with the aid and comfort of the congress. Congress, over time, and on its own, has proven itself incapable of thoughtfully considering and executing legislation beneficial to the country as a whole. Making congress work is like herding cats. Congress is wholly owned by parochial economic interests and managed mostly for the benefit of parochial political interests. Congress has a reputation that is well earned. Don't blame Trump.
1
"Where the president’s misconduct is aimed at corrupting elections, relying on elections to solve the problem is no safeguard at all."
This was my breaking point. If the Ukraine scheme is allowed to stand, how will our 2020 elections be free and fair? If the House doesn't vote to impeach and the Senate doesn't vote to convict, Trump will almost certainly continue to coerce and convince other countries to interfere in our 2020 elections. And how would that be letting the people decide? The Ukraine evidence is clear, indisputable. The aims of the illegal and unconstitutional Ukraine scheme have already mostly been accomplished. After all, Zelensky and Biden are in a box.
That is of course just the tip of the iceberg. Based on the Nixon and Clinton impeachments, the following counts could be brought. Asterisks mean they pertain to Ukraine:
* Obstruction of justice: Multiple counts pertaining to the Mueller investigation and Ukraine.
* Contempt of Congress: He did not cooperate with Mueller. He has not cooperated on Ukraine.
* Abuse of power: Extorting Ukraine into interfering in our elections.
* Impairing the administration of justice: Abuse of power involving the corrupt use of the direct investigatory powers of the federal government
Acceptance of emoluments: Many charges.
Corruption of elections: Unindicted co-conspirator in campaign finance law felonies.
Abuse of pardons: Multiple charges.
Conduct grossly incompatible with the presidency: Multiple charges.
4
Donald Trump is doing more than "demeaning Congress;" he's systematically destroying the Constitution with its "checks and balances" and "separation of powers." This is the very heart of the impeachment--our Constitutional rule of law" versus the authoritarian (what's with "monarchical"?) rule of Trump. We are in the midst of what Carl Bernstein has called a "cold civil war" that once again pits the forces of white racism still mainly located in the Old Confederacy that seeks, as it did in 1860, to overturn the Constitution and replace it with Trump's autocracy of white nationalism and its doctrine of racial superiority. This is an existential battle for the very survival of our democracy, and the Senate controlled and run by largely Southern and border state Republicans is willing and able to grant Trump "Total Exoneration!" no matter what articles of impeachment the House sends over to them. That means that we can expect Trump to continue where he left off in undermining the 2020 election. My uncle who died on the beaches at Anzio and countless others who fought and perished to fight against authoritarian rule must feel that their sacrifice was in vain and their graves have been desecrated.
3
Sorry, but all of this still feels very much driven by personal opinions about Donald Trump and his 2016 victory.
If democrats had been totally obedient up until the Ukraine call dilemma, I might be on their side. However, they have been calling for impeachment since day 1. They played their hand way too early and now just come across as desperate.
1
@John Some Democrats called for Trump's impeachment early in Trump's term. Their resolutions never went anywhere. Speaker Pelosi didn't let them go anywhere.
Now, three years in, she feels she has no choice but to move forward with impeachment. I think she's right. This is my personal opinion -- based on my knowledge of the facts. One such fact is that Trump said Article 2 of the Constitution gives him the right to do whatever he wants.
It is childish to assume that personal opinions one does not like are baseless. Republicans make that assumption constantly.
Is it a question of Trump demeaning Congress or the liberal left’s last gasp at attacking a President that it holds in contempt ? The Russia probe was a bust and now the attack is over his attempts to get at the truth regarding Biden. Has the left truly become unhinged?
Pelosi knows that the Senate will not endorse their findings yet she persist. Who is making a mockery out of the impeachment process? The liberal speeches before each question? Let’s not forget that Obama would not support Ukraine’s stance against Russia. Where was the liberal ire over it? The short answer is nowhere.
They believe there is a cornucopia of ammunition in Trump’s tax returns to load up on for a full frontal assault. Where are the spending bills for infrastructure improvements and the meaningful legislation that Pelosi promised? The liberal Democrats have devolved into an angry mob nothing more. They have put their political aspirations ahead of everything else.
1
@George
"Let’s not forget that Obama would not support Ukraine’s stance against Russia."
Can you back that up with a link?
By not pursuing the duly issued subpoenas to bring in key witnesses, the Intelligence and Judiciary Committees created a vacuum of power to be filled by Republican critics, including Professor Turley who said "not enough evidence." These Committees have acceded their power to Trump whose legal basis for "forbidding" testimony seems thin. Arguing that pursuing the subpoenas would take too long is not a justifiable excuse. Trump's disrespect for authority has a long history, so I believe it's time these Committees played hardball by enforcing subpoenas; otherwise, like banks and his father who enabled his financial irresponsibility, the House enables him. As the Romans said: sestina lente - make haste slowly.
I do not agree with the Editorial Board to keep the articles of impeachment narrow.
If, as it predicted, hard held opinions will not change whatever the result of the impeachment trial in the Senate, it is better for the nation to air all the unconstitutional dirty linen created by Trump and his administration so that fair-minded citizens can reflect on it even if their elected representatives are prepared to ignore it.
The only way to get this mess cleaned up and behind us is to air the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
1
With all we've learned to date, it feels as though we've only scratched the surface of trump's mendacity, and the undeniable unyielding reinforcement he receives from GOP congress members.
If we ever get to the truth, all of it, I would not be surprised if it were to shock most of the civilized world. There are so many moving parts - as Speaker Pelosi said - all of them "lead to Russia". Blatant concessions that help Russia and harm the US.
From General Flynn to Giuliani, the trump family. Why did those seven republican senators go to Russia on 7/4/18 - two of whom, Ron Johnson and Jon Kennedy have been trump's his most absurd defenders. McConnell is allegedly bringing Russian $$ to KY via a Russian oligarch in aluminum production.
Why is Pompeo so indifferent, even hostile to career State Dept. personnel regarding Ukraine. Why is Barr so determined to discredit his own Justice Dept. - CIA, FBI and others. Why have so many been willing to defend the indefensible?
Why have trump's meetings and phone calls with Putin been undocumented and unwitnessed except for translator(s) whose notes were taken by trump and without a peep from a single republican.
I'm not given to conspiracies. Yet every time I hear trump accuse democrats of a coup, and consider how much he projects his own actions/guilt on others it's a bit unnerving.
Demeaning Congress has been easy. I'm afraid decapitating it is next.
1
Duh.
Trump believes, without any psychological constraints, that he is not just “a” leader, but THE leader, not just “a” president, but THE president, not just THE president, but THE president of all times.
Better than all of them.
He invokes Article II because he absolutely believes that while other presidents should necessarily have been limited because they were flawed, inferior human beings, he is not flawed and not only should not be viewed as limited in power but IS NOT, by definition, see Article II in Trump’s case only, limited.
He views himself as “Chosen.” His supporters do as well. And his supporters in Congress enable and facilitate every act he takes, each decision he makes, and every lie he tells as truths because he tells them.
That is not going to change about Donald Trump. Not before he was elected, not since he was elected, and not even if he is unseated. That absolutely flawed psychological mess is who he is and he holds Congress in contempt because he’s contemptuous of all who are not Donald Trump.
I firmly believe the Republican held Senate will not remove Trump from office.
The result, however, will then be an unbridled president, caught in the act of election meddling but not reprimanded, and now given carte blanche to continue this gross mishandling of his office. In every possible way.
The 2020 election will not be fair. Getting out the vote will not work. Trump will be re-elected and then, with the 'mandate' of the re-election, will spend the next four years completing the Russification of the US.
I am beyond sad about this. America, you are lost.
1
If even attempted bribery is a crime the Bidens are in deep trouble. They took $3 million from the Ukranians. What did they expect for all that money?
1
@Reader In Wash, DC - No. You are grossly uninformed. The Bidens did not take three million from Ukraine. Did not happen. Hunter Biden received 50K per month (600K/yr). I don't recall how long this lasted but not long enough to accrue what you state. Joe received zero. It didn't look good and was poor judgement but entirely legal.
But do let us know when you get worked up about the purchase arranged for Kushner to get bailed out of 666 5th Ave. via a Qatari RE investment firm, or Ivanka's dozens of product trademarks, or Junior (trump) getting a half million dollar loan guarantee from China to a third party bank for a development in Indonesia.
1
Newt Gingrich and other Republicans have said many times that impeaching Clinton was a mistake that cost them. This impeachment will cost Democrats.
1
Trump's behavior is reprehensible, but Congress is demeaning itself by genuflecting to Trump instead of upholding its Constitutional duty to checks and balances. I didn't expect that Trump would conjure up some semblance of integrity so his behavior is not surprising, but I did hope, in vain, that the Senate would come out from under his yoke and do its job.
I do not understand what is so not clear to some people about violations of our Constitution.
Emmolument violations, asking a foreign power to interfere in our politics. Both clearly laid out by our founders as wrong. Specifically. In writing. As seen in the Constitution, should any detractors care to read it.
Did anyone notice that this unfounded notion of Ukrainian interference only came up a few months ago, after the whistle-blower complaint about the call? There was absolutely no talk about that concept previously.
3
What has happened to the Republican party? In my opinion, congressional Republicans are so obsessed and blinded by the issues of gun control, stacking the Supreme Court with judges opposed to abortion and taking away LGBTQ rights, that they will stop at nothing to make certain Trump remains in office.
3
Your editorial is founded on a false premise: Trump, as our President, has not committed one single act that is worthy of impeachment.
Your disdain almost certainly. But impeachment, no.
This on-going drama, in Congress, is all about the Democrats, with unfailing support from the main stream media, trying to accomplish what their 2016 Presidential candidate failed to do: defeat Trump.
The New York Times editorial board, like their fellow Democrats, just can not accept the decision of 60 million fellow citizens and the electoral college.
The entire country will have another opportunity, in 11 or so months, to decide on who our next President should be.
1
@Solon
"Your editorial is founded on a false premise: Trump, as our President, has not committed one single act that is worthy of impeachment."
I agree: It is a false premise that Trump has not committed one single act that is worthy of impeachment.
What would happen if the senate trial was delayed until after the election?
And if Dems gained a senate majority?
Can the House impeach, but hold off on sending the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate until later, or not at all, as suggested by Robert Henry Ellert in a comment here?
Trump is gambling that he can portray the Ukraine problem as minor foreign dealmaking. The Democrats need to pile on all the wrongdoing, all the lying, everything. It still won't convince the faithful, but at least history will record that the president's crimes were noted and each additional offense will make it more difficult for Republicans to invent innocent explanations for the whole sad mess.
1
As the 'impeachment' process drags on Trump's angry torrent of blather grows more infantile daily. He will not be re elected, whether impeachment and removal happens or not.
In 2021 he will be prosecuted as a private citizen for the fed, state, and local charges awaiting him.
We have a year. The dems must unify to find a message that will win the white house. The repubs will suffer as they continue to support and mimic Trump at the expense of any shred of self respect they still have.
It's not Trump who is demeaning Congress, it's Republicans in Congress who are demeaning themselves. Whether Trump is impeached or not by the Senate is immaterial. I still want the House to issue articles of impeachment for all his crimes and misdemeanors because it will be a perment record of his presidency. That includes abuse of power, obstruction of justice, obstruction of Congress, witness intimidation, corruption, violations of the emoluments clause, nepotism, collusion with hostile foreign powers, attacks on the free press, crimes against humanity on the southern border, endangering public safety by revoking environmental protections, violating the code of military justice by pardoning war criminals and endangering national security with insecure communications.
2
I agree that the articles should be based on Trump's efforts to extort the Ukraine government to interfere in the upcoming election, and obstruction of Congress's oversigh responsibility. It seems clear that certain Republicans and the administration will introduce a whole lot of noise regarding nefarious, and discredited, schemes perpetrated by "the Bidens" to try to hijack the public's attention.
I am very worried about the inflammatory rhetoric coming from the Trump/Pence campaign machine. I am on an email list (don't ask) and last week got a solicitation for the "Official Impeachment Defense Fund," signed by Donald J Trump, President of the United States, that said, in part, "The DC Swamp wants impeachment. The Hollywood Elites want impeachment. The Fake News wants impeachment. The Deep State wants impeachment. Foreign enemies want impeachment. The Establishment wants impeachment. They all HATE you, and that’s why they want to steal your vote. It’s US against THEM. Make no mistake this is a war, and a war we must win to save the United States of America."
:(
1
it must be amazing - and sobering , to whomever still cares for safeguarding elementary political civility and observance of the constitution, to bare witness to the degree of flagrant contempt Trump exudes. just like any typical neighborhood bully.
the rest of the world is ( of course ! ) watching as well with amazement and probably wonder : what's wrong with the American ( political) system of government ?!
its been getting clearer practically by the day that the wrongs we'v been living through need to be corrected not via the voting booth.
does our system posses the tools ( let alone the political authority and will) to bring about the necessary change ?!
This is a pretty weak article for a New York Times opinion piece. "Donald Trump is Demeaning Congress", as a title, misses the point. The article is more about what the editorial board thinks the Democrats in the House should include in the articles of impeachment. That's a strategy opinion. Of course Trump demeans Congress, but more importantly, the Republicans in Congress demean the Constitution. For what's it's worth, I disagree with the editorial board's recommendation to focus only on Ukraine. In my opinion, not including Mueller's findings could support the the Republicans' contention that it was merely a "witch hunt."
I am not surprise he won't show up to defend himself. He knows the senate will not impeach him so he'll shout victory.
If congress remained silent , doing nothing to address this mans goal to design a government that offers him the ultimate power and title of king, this would say, The Constituion of United Staes of America is worthless and antiquated. We the People would have vindicated him of all his ongoing, selfserving corrupt actions.
I will contiune to hold on to the hope that on 11-3- 2020 We the People well cheer victory and he soundly looses the seat of presidency. On that day we'll proclaim that Our Constitution is alive and well protected. On that day we will begin the work of bringing our Democracy back to the middle.
it must be amazing - and sobering , to whomever still cares for safeguarding elementary political civility and observance of the constitution, to bare witness to the degree of flagrant contempt Trump exudes. just like any typical neighborhood bully.
the rest of the world is ( of course ! ) watching as well with amazement and probably wonder : what's wrong with the American ( political) system of government ?!
its been getting clearer practically by the day that the wrongs we'v been living through need to be corrected not via the voting booth.
does our system posses the tools ( let alone the political authority and will) to bring about the necessary change ?!
Trump and his supporters claim that the Democratic controlled House is trying to negate the 2016 election. The Trump administration is thwarting the duly elected House of representatives. Trump has abused and dishonored the office of the president. The judiciary committee is following the rule of law as set down in our constitution. Just who are the Republicans working for?
Blue wave 2020!
We all know that civil disobedience often relies on numbers of participants to be effective.
No one believes that virtually all senators really support Trump's abuse of his office, the constitution etc. Surely they have not discarded the checks and balance concept that has served us for so long.
Do they not see that they could recapture their stature and power through joining TOGETHER in rejecting Trump?
I wish they would. I cannot bear the idea that our democracy will die in silence.
The GOP demeans themselves. They could be statesmen if they want to be.
Trump can't demean Congress. Current Congressional approval stands at 22.4% positive, 65.6% negative. I understand that the 22.4% also believe the moon landing was fake and that Bigfoot is alive and well, roaming around the Pacific northwest.
Republicans in Congress are currently behaving as traitors to this country, the Constitution and to the rule of law. But they did not vote themselves into office, and the same can be said of anyone who voted for them.
I believe that we have passed the point of no return and that the authoritarian government now growing in Washington will bear little or no resemblance to a true democracy.
1
It is clear that President Trump has no respect for Congress as an institution. It is equally clear he has faith that the Republican Party is sufficiently within his thrall that the Senate will vote in his favour. The only thing that matters to this president is winning the engagement.
1
We don't have a 3 part balance of power in our current system. Fox/brietbart/sinclair and their ilk have enormous power to project misinformation to a significant part of America who get their "news" primarily from these media outlets. Actual facts and information don't matter for the viewers of these propagandist outlets. We are in dangerous waters here and it's not clear how to extricate ourselves here. OUr problem is akin to someone with a mental illness who hallucinates much about their environment. Their judgment is seriously impaired. Thank you Murdoch, Mercer and the other right wing oligarchs who only seem to care about their personal, immediate economic gain.
1
The president has far less do with all that is happening in Washington than is popularly thought. Congress is demeaning congress. Let's get on with infrastructure, immigration law and health care.
Many questions arise about a Senate trial. Who decides about the witnesses, McConnell or the Chief Judge Roberts? If Schiff and Biden are subpoened can they fight the subpoenas in federal court the way the Trump administration has done with McGahn and Pompeo? What if Giuliani is subpoenaed? I agree with some comments that these articles of impeachment should not be sent to the Senate
If this is a "witch hunt" as Trump contends, all he has to do is make the tape of the call available, make his minions available to testify and if innocent, that will clear the air of any wrongdoing. Instead, he appears to be hiding evidence which certainly looks like guilt. Congressional republicans should be on board with seeking the truth, not supporting some fabricated story line.
4
Sure Trump demeans Congress. The problem is that many millions of voters want an imperious and powerful president. They too distain Congress. Many of them would probably prefer an actual dictator if given the clear choice. True republicanism is not to be found in the ranks of the ill-named Republican Party. But our unfair, undemocratic and out of date system of electoral college politics and our extraordinarily un-democratic bi-cameral legislature, with it's 2-per-state Senate tilted toward minority control, pushes us ever-closer to true dictatorship, while all the while inviting disrespect from the majority who, by the way, voted against Trump.
Republicans in Congress are doing a good job of demeaning themselves. The fact that they have become the mouthpiece for Trump’s choose your own reality is one of the most disturbing and bizarre historical phenomenons I can remember. I understand partisanship, but reality is reality and the jig is up. I get that the Trump supporters that vote for them think that he’s superior to Lincoln, but to defend the indefensible in the face of truth and fact is an affront to the American people and the Constitution. The historical record will not be kind to the GOP.
Have we actually come to where Republican “Americans” can both allow Russia and its global oligarch network to divide, polarize, and
weaken the United States of America, and then still look at themselves in the mirror?
By the time they realize what’s happening, it might be too late.
1
This is a lot better than your False Equivalence "news" article on today's front page. The point you miss is that if the House waits for Pompeo et al., they will wait forever, and then the attack will claim that they didn't move because they believed the case was weak. Which it isn't. I belong to the "kitchen sink" model--everything that is there on a factual basis, including Russia, Ukraine, obstruction of justice by refusing to cooperate with a constitutionally unassailable procedure--should become articles of impeachment, and then each of them has to be swallowed by the Senate in their corrupt acquittal (who ever heard of a jury accepting campaign donations from the defendant in a trial?) The points here are (1) make it clear what happened and (2) broadcast the corruption preventing conviction.
1
"Their decision to press ahead with impeachment by the end of this year has only increased the burden on them to provide the clearest and most comprehensible account possible of high crimes by this president."
Stop repeating the Republican talking points.
Did you actually read the transcript of the July 25th call that the White House published? That transcript has lifted all the burden. The perp admitted to the crime.
Do you really need any further evidence beyond that? Isn't all the evidence required to impeach in the call transcript itself? Does the crime have to be committed in the dark of the nights? What do you call a crime when it is committed in broad daylight? "A perfect call"?
Besides if Congress is the co-equal branch of the government, then why do they have to go to the Courts again? Why can't they get the sergeant-at-arms to arrest Pompeo and Bolton, and drag them to testify?
And let them try to go to courts to defend themselves--after they have testified.
Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.
1
Trump is not demeaning the Congress, it is people who are demeaning the Congress. Look at the Congress’s approval rating, it is in teens compared to about 50 percentile for president. The truth dies in partisan politics and with it the faith in congress. That explains the low ratings for Congress and demeaning by Trump sticks. Pelosi has an Hercules task to overcome the hurdles.
@Kodali
Donald Trump does not have a 50% approval rating. He has never been above 44% in his entire presidency. And a Fox News poll recently showed that 49% of Americans think Trump should be impeached:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-49-percent-favor-impeaching-trump
Since when should President Trump listen to the advice coming from the NY Times Editorial Board? An editorial board whose bias against him is overwhelming. There is no need to mount a " defense " against some false accusations conjured by opponents. This is not a criminal case, he is an equal power to Congress( even if the NYT board does not seem to acknowledge it) and he just wants them to get over with the inevitable impeachment so he can handle the matter in the Senate. So thank you NYT for your unsolicited advice.
Trump is being Trump as since a boy; answer to no one. BUT the Republican members of the House and Senate who support him will have a special place to go to.
How does Mr. Trump want me to analyze information presented, and further, make a decision based upon such an analysis? In what is a sign of authoritarianism, Trump and Barr each answer with “trust me” rather than asking me to rely upon logic and reason. This I cannot do.
WSJ, 12/5/19, "there has been no investigation of the Bidens' behavior in Ukraine." Funny, I keep hearing, "there is no evidence the Bidens did anything wrong." True, until there's an investigation there is never evidence of anything.
Evidence: Joe Biden admitted, in fact bragged, he got a prosecutor fired who wanted to investigate him and his son. This is a huge national security issue. Hunter was paid $60,000 a month to do a job for which he had no qualifications and didn't do. Trump had every right to demand an investigation.
Fact: "Digging up dirt" is subjective. Mueller was "digging up dirt" too.
Fact: The President of the US has the right to demand an investigation of corruption prior to giving foreign aid. Especially if said investigation has not been done previously.
I despise Trump but he had every right to demand an investigation. There is no crime committed because there is no law which says when a President can withhold foreign aid. This impeachment procedure is a sad attempt to overturn a democratic election.
A Johnson violated the Tenure of Office Act. Nixon illegally surveilled people and destroyed evidence. Clinton lied under oath. Tell me what law Trump broke?
There's an election in 11 months. If you dislike him vote him out of office. But the Democrats have wasted our time and neglected the country's business. Worse, when the table are turned you'll get your payback.
Trump is right. You're the ones demeaning the Constitution.
What is worrisome is not only Mr. Trump’s felonious behavior but WHAT MAY FOLLOW in U.S. foreign policy during his present term or if he is re-elected.
Given Trumps weakening of NATO by actions and behavior with NATO members, plus backing of everything Putin, what may be expected IF Russia invades three NATO countries - Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia❓
These Baltic Countries were part of the defunct Soviet Union as was Ukraine. Putin’s goal is enlarge Russia to its former size. A Russian invasion of The Baltic’s is very possible.
Would the U.S. invoke ARTICLE FIVE [an attack on one is an attack on all] for three NATO allies and risk a major confrontation with Putin’s Russia ❓ It is doubtful that Trump would defend these Baltic countries 1. because they either “have not paid enough dues to NATO or 2. because of Trump’s relationship with Vladimir Putin. CONSIDER:
▪️ Trump attacks and undermines NATO
▪️ Trump supports populist pro-Russian leaders in Europe
▪️ Trump conceals details of conversations with Putin in Hamburg & Helsinki.
▪️ The hollowing out of theState Department with the loss of many experienced career diplomats.
▪️ Trump betrayed the Kurds.
▪️ Trump’s “very fine people on both sides” - white supremacists vs. hate group protesters.
▪️ Trump’s Implementating child separation.
▪️ Trump calls the press the “enemy of the people” - a term used in authoritarian countries.
Trump HAS DEMEANED THE PRESIDENCY and FOSTERED DIVISIVENESS IN AMERICA.
B
3
Kings don't need a Congress or Courts.
Republicans should think long and hard before they throw it all away for Trump.
If we still have elections - kings don't need them either- vote Democratic in 2020.
Every office, every seast.
@D. DeMarco
Please excuse the typo.
It should have been "Every office, every seat."
Trump does not obey his Marital vows, he does not obey the 10 Commandments, and he does not obey the constitution. I give up on his wife and the Senate. I am praying desperately for God to take care of this situation. Please join me in prayer. This is our only hope for action.
Focus on Ukraine, impeach Trump.
Then sit on it.
Keep pursuing the new crimes that surface on a daily basis.
Americans have the right to know how corrupt this administration is, as well as the Republican conspiracy to suppress these crimes.
No sense in giving Trump and the Republicans the satisfaction of a Senate "acquittal."
Trump denied proven evidence that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, thereby condoning and accepting it. Trump glad handed Putin and privately met with him barring any other American attendees to witness their conversation. Trump publicly stated he would welcome Russian interference in the 2020 election by welcoming any information they come up with to assist him. Trump belittles our allies, weakens them, betrays them, and praises our enemies. Trump and his Republican allies weaken the very foundation of America. Trump lies more often than he speaks truth. That's just a short list of his crimes against Americans. How can he even be considered for reelection? I implore the Senate to sack him now or be equally criminal in its actions if they do not.
1
Before impeachment articles are filed Congress needs to arrest the uncooperative Executive Branch witnesses, including the President himself. The Constitution gives them that power. Hold them until they agree to testify. This way they can say they gave Trump every possibility to cooperate and still he refused to obey the Constitution. If there is nothing to hide, why not testify? Flight from arrest is legal evidence for consciousness of guilt. Remember OJ? He had a “Republican jury” who acquitted him but he is known today for nothing more than being a brutal murderer. He is a broken human being as are all the jurors who voted to acquit him. This is the end of the Republican Party. Custer’s last stand.
Donald Trump, the Cult Leader, has become emboldened and lawless. Prior to reaching legal age, he and his father joined together in business. In 1973, they were sued by the Justice Department for violating the law - not selling to black people. One can look back and see just how unethical, and possibly criminal, he had been. Realistically, Trump the private citizen had less of a responsibility to be honorable and law abiding than Trump, the President. However, it was almost impossible to be unaware of his unethical behavior from cheating on one or more wives to falsifying tax returns to not paying his workers for contracted goods and services to being forced by a Court Judgement to pay back $25 million to the students of Trump University who sued for fraud. A very recent Court Order forces him to pay back $2+ million marked for military vets he used for his campaign and to buy a portrait of himself. How can it be OK when a President boasts that he could shoot someone in the middle of NY City and not lose any of his fan base? How can it be OK when a Trump admitted that he cheated on his taxes? He has willfully ignored Court Orders, subpoenas, and issued orders for his Administration to do the same. Isn't the President accountable? I hope the farmers, the taxpayers, the union workers -all of us- believe that he is accountable.
1
There is no Constitutional obligation for a president to mount a defense against charges used to justify Impeachment. Refusing to mount a defense is neither an obstruction of congress nor of justice.
The significant unresolved legal questions regarding the use of executive privilege by Presidents and to refuse document releases as well as to refuse to testify before Congress is without resolving questions of executive privilege is justified. The House Intelligence Committee chose not to pursue information for which the certainty of legal challenge and an unfavorable decision was likely.
Impeachment is a political process in which the typical duplicity of politics raises its ugly head and this case the process has been the ugliest display of politics in history.
I believe the best thing that House Democrats could do to guarantee President Trump’s re-election would be to develop and approve as many Articles of Impeachment as partisanship demands.
Congress represents the people. The people, We. "We, the people..." Of the three branches of government Congress is most directly accountable to the people. Donald Trump is, in defying Congressional checks on his authority, committting Consitutional heresy. He is in effect saying that he has no accountability to the American people. He can ignore them. It is consistent with his monarchical view of Presidential authority that "Article Two gives [him] the authority to do whatever [he] wants."
No, Mr. President. The Constitution has reins on your Presidential attempts at unbridled authority. It is not the President's government. The government belomgs to the people, and we elected the Congress to ensure that our will -- not yours -- is paramount. Now, Trump, respond to the Congressional subpoenas and direct your staff to honor the will of the people -- not you -- as determined by the Congress.
2
The basic argument is that its not a surprise, just wait till he is impeached and removed from office and watch a complete constitutional crisis erupt. Mr Trump is unfit by all means to be in the position he found himself, given all bad actors that aided him and made it possible. No one is surprised. He will definitely destroy reason as we know it and it will be years before the country recovers.
1
Trump is not the problem. The Republicans that support him are.
1
If only we lived in a divided limited different power constitutional republic of united states where the people wield the ultimate sovereign power over their elected and selected hired help.
If only we had an Article I legislative branch with a House of Representatives and Senate with clearly separate defined independent power to check and balance and investigate and impeach an Article II executive office of the President of the United States.
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@Blackmamba
Nicely done. Too bad many readers won't catch the sarcasm.
10
How in the world can you demean something that's already beneath contempt? And that was way before Trump was elected.
A Congressman who thinks that too much military equipment would tip over the island of Guam.
Numerous Congressmen and women who treat their staff as serfs.
Congress carving out exemptions to themselves for laws that they pass and expect the rest of us to follow.
Senators who retire as multi-millionaires.
Representatives and Senators who get defeated, and stay in D.C. via the lucrative revolving door, so they can lobby on behalf of their deep-pocketed employers to the old friends.
1
People are going to have to be in the streets if they want McConnell to even play fair with impeachment.
And yes, they should subpoena the people who won't testify.
Especially Trump. No more coddling.
Trump did not appear in a vacuum. The GOP in its embrace of birtherism presenting as facts that President Obama was not n American citizen opened up the flood gate of lies that has now perverted that party. Trump saw and endorsed this existing feeling among Republicans and
magnified it to the point that Orwellian perversion of the truth is now accepted fact among the Republican rank and file. And this culture of lies sprang directly from Mitch McConnell's all out attempt to make President Obama a one term president, no matter the cost to the truth in the process. Is it any wonder that these same Republicans so mired in the culture of lies themselves protect Trump at all costs?
2
Donald Trump, the president of the United States, betrayed his oath of office. Trump used bribery, extortion, and other criminal means to pressure a foreign government to manufacture dirt on a political opponent. He wasn't acting in America's interest. He was acting in his own — and in Putin's. GOP members of Congress are complicit in his bad acts and spread Trump's disinformation and Putin's propaganda. They themselves have betrayed their own oaths of office. Trump's impeachment is not a political fight but a fight against an authoritarian demagogue who has no legitimate right to continue in office. The media needs to frame its reporting accordingly, highlighting the EXTREME threat to our country. What kind of country do we have if we are deluged with misinformation, any opponents to Trump are attacked and smeared, our votes are not counted, and foreign actors manipulate the rolls or vote counts? The GOP wants Trump to be KING of the USA. Think about the consequences of that...
2
President Trump, on his best day, could never demean Congress as fully and completely as Congress has demeaned itself. Their contempt for due process, their espionage and publishing of phone records, the many lies of Adam Schiff and the fashion crimes of Nadler are all beneath contempt.
The Democrats hold no high ground.
1
You have it right when you call his behavior "monarchical". Yes, he thinks of himself as a king, an emperor of a vast domain. And all who do not kowtow to him are traitors, guilty of treason. This pattern of behavior has been amply exhibited. Trump does not feel he has any obligation to the traitors to explain his perversities. He has only to command, never to give reasons for what he has done. This is the one thing the Founding Fathers were most afraid of, the rise of a tyrant, a dictator. This pattern is most apparent when we examine the persistence of his ignoring proper procedures. I think that the thrust of the impeachment hearing should be to enumerate all the episodes---and there are many--of his tyrannical behavior. Consider the lies he tells, the enemies he consorts with and then hides the conversation, the records he promises to release and then does not, the people he orders to do his inappropriate bidding, and the ease with which he fires those who stand in his way. Use the Mueller Report and the many other sources in the media. The fact that this man is not a one-crime criminal but a serial malefactor should be emphasized.
2
Impeccable logic. For those of us who still believe in the rule of law and the sanctity of The Constitution, let us hope that the democrats follow this wise advice.
2
The House is not the same as the Congress. And Democrats in the House are not the same as the House.
Other than that you are right! (smile).
1
Needless to say--trump demeans pretty much everything he interacts with.
1
Donald Trump can only get away with all his corruption because Mitch McConnell has destroyed the Senate.
It now seems a joke when any Republican swears to uphold the Constitution, as it describes three separate and equal branches.
3
This is all so unnecessary: All Donald Trump, needed to do was immediately register as a foreign agent once he won the electoral college in 2016. This way the Russian Republicans in the house and senate could defend him with a clear conscience.
7
Republican lawmakers are afraid of Trump. But what they can’t see at this point is that they are on the wrong side of history, even if he is re elected. History will put Trump in a category with Andrew Johnson and Richard Nixon ( although Nixon was never actually impeached).
Plus, I really do think the Democrats will take the Senate. And if that happens Trump will not get any more SCOTUS appointees nor will he get any political victories.
I really want to oust Trump from the White House. But the Senate is the real big fish in the 2020 election.
2
The president doesn‘t have to mount a defense. I can‘t imagine, that one republican senator would agree to an impeachment. It is all about keeping power. And there certainly won‘t be any pressure from the voters. If they are not complacent, then I don‘t know who is.
No, it's not Trump that is demeaning Congress, but the Congressional majority which is demeaning itself.
While Trump is not particulalrly likeable, he is the elected President and the office deserves greater respect than Congress and Pelosi have granted.
The impeachment will proceed, and fail - we have known that all along. Pelosi and her followers are throwing as much mud as they can, hoping that some will stick, but I'm one of the outraged independent voters who are infuriarated by the Pelosi conduct and I will vote accordingly in 2020
23
@PB "While Trump is not particulalrly likeable, he is the elected President and the office deserves greater respect than Congress and Pelosi have granted. "
He's gotten two Supreme Court justices nominated and confirmed by the Republican led Senate, that's a lot more "respect" than Barack Obama received.
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@PB
I suspect that the impeachment strategy is an attempt to divert attention away from the coming DOJ indictments that are just around the corner. Fasten your seatbelts...it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
7
@PB Trump openly has committed an impeachable offense. Bribery. It's right there in the US Constitution. Nobody made him do it. Why hasn't he allowed witnesses to testify in his defense? Why won't he testify?
58
You don't have to look too hard or deeply into Trump's corrupt action in Ukraine to see how clearly and closely it flows from his corrupt actions in regard to Russia in 2016. Trump in Ukraine is at once covering for and extending to the 2020 election his own 2016 collaboration with Russia to corrupt that election.
It's disappointing that the Times hasn't, well, taken the time to recognize this plain truth.
The founders considered leaving impeachment out of the constitution but after careful consideration agreed that it was an essential check on a rogue president. Nixon and especially Trump are stark proof of their wisdom. All of the top constitutional law experts agree that the Ukraine matter warrants investigation in the context of impeachment. Only one thought a vote to impeach was premature and his opinion was due to Trump's refusal to cooperate with the investigation. Even senators who do not accept the obvious serious nature of Trump's conduct should vote for his removal based on his obstruction and his utter contempt for a coequal branch of government. If they do not they will have effectively removed the impeachment clause that the founders saw as necessary protection from a would be tyrant.
3
It's as simple as this. The job of members of the House is to act as members of a grand jury panel. The job of senators is to act as members of a petit jury panel. The Constitution gives neither representatives nor senators the job of defense attorney. Defense counsel is never present at the grand jury; the president's own defense counsel must be present at the Senate trial. To deviate from these assigned roles is to violate Congressional oaths of office and endanger the Constitution. The future or our republic depends on every member of Congress fulfilling their assigned roles thoughtfully and soberly. This is true no matter the ultimate outcome of a senate trial.
4
It seems to me that if, as expected, the senate stands fully behind Trump then they are giving the green light to the solicitation of political information from foreign governments in order to influence US elections. Just imagine how much dirt could be shovelled up on Trump for the 2020 election. Democrats should get on the case.
7
Make no mistake, Trump deserves to be impeached based on the evidence unearthed to date. That said, there is no chance whatsoever that the Senate will remove him from office and when that verdict comes in, we can expect him to take maximum advantage of it. Why are the Democrats in such a hurry to lose? Why not push for testimony from Pompeo, Mulvaney & Bolton, even if it takes some time? I know they don't want to lose momentum, but momentum will not give them any political advantage, it won't increase the chances of removal, and it will not deter Trump or future presidents from similar bad behavior.
5
@Mark
Trump broke the law, he has broken twenty and more laws. He is responsible for the people being killed in Ukraine. He is a traitor to the Constitution. If the Senate refuse to do their jobs, they will be known as traitor's. This is not hard and if white American cant bring themselves to stand up for democracy, then they are all traitors with a T next to heir names and be voted out of office.
The rush is that a nation can not function when the head is full of cancer and his enablers believe that they can destroy this country. Trump is a traitor and he will go down in history as such. This is how Germany must've felt when the Nazis were coming into power. Decency no longer existed.
We can not go down that path of insanity we are there with Miller in charge of putting children in cages, Haley rewriting the Civil War, Barr rewriting the laws to fit his sense of self, our only hope is that Jusitce Roberts will be the man and lawyer that the Founding Fathers would ask of him to be.
"Richard Nixon was far more compliant with Congress, as was Bill Clinton. They felt like they had to be. And they felt like they should be. Those were different eras.”.
Not only different eras but both quite possibly understood the meaning of their oaths of office and the workings of our government as provided in our Constitution.
It is difficult to understand Trump’s beliefs concerning our form of government unless he believes he was given a mandate by the people to govern as a monarch. Or, he is just plain ignorant.
I, over the course of 70 years, have seen the crimes committed by Nixon, an egregious abuse of power, yet he understood our form of government. And his party understood that criminal actions at his behest had taken place.
Clinton was nothing more than showboating by Gingrich and his cabal. Did Clinton commit a crime worthy of the removal from office by lying? In perspective to Nixon it was small potatoes.
Yet, we now have Trump using his office for personal gain. Many will say “allegedly”. Perhaps. But, there is overwhelming proof that Trump has overstepped his bounds and his party has given a green light, a pass.
Imagine for a moment the outcry if Obama or any other Democrat had abused the office for personal gain as it appears Trump has.
Different eras indeed. Along with much more intelligent presidents.
7
@Dan , I'm not a Trump supporter, but when you refer Trump using his office for personal gain( true) you've also
got to look at Vive -President Joe Biden's son making $83,000 a month! a month! not a year, for sitting on a
corporate board of a gas company in the Ukraine.
“He (Trump) has signaled that he won’t mount any defense to impeachment charges in the House over his scheming in Ukraine, insisting it is somehow beneath him to participate in a constitutional process.”
Actions only a monarch would take. Trump truly believes himself to be an autocrat; he is above the Law.
And so too, Trump’s higher cabinet members and the Republican Party. Above the Law.
This is surprising since many Republicans are in Congress. They are thumbing their nose at their own legitimacy.
Well, I guess Putin has won.
He has succeeded in splitting America in two, along ideological lines. And the Republicans have played a major part, assisting Putin every step of the way, by assisting Trump.
I’ve lived awhile but I never thought I’d see it happen in my lifetime. Very sad indeed. I fear for this country.
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All of the Republican support for Trump is, in itself, a quid pro quo. They support Trump, and he will support them.
Just another example of ethics taking a back seat to political expediency.
15
Having surrendered to the presidency their prerogative to declare war (eventually culminating in the never-ending "War on Terror"), levy trade tariffs ("National Security" as now applied to countries like Canada) and appropriate funds from the national treasury ("National Emergency" used to redirect funds to build Trump's border wall), now Congress seems set to declare itself irrelevant on matters having to do with the impeachment of a president for trying to fix his own re-election. What will this supposedly co-equal branch have left after Republicans in the Senate fix the outcome of the impeachment process?
12
Ukraine and Mueller are but two instances of anti-American activity on the part of the president. No one mentions the emoluments, which are staggering, nor the treatment of families at the border, both of which are indeed criminal.
There are so many other instances of corruption on the part of this president, that the two now in focus are but the tip of the iceberg.
That being said, it is the lack of governance by the Congress for at least the last 8 years which has been the cause of allowing much of this. Until that is addressed, none of the other instances can be resolved.
8
A thought experiment: I imagine it’s still technically “legal” for our government to detain an American citizen abroad and torture him, if somebody decides that to be necessary. It may even be “legal” to do so on our soil. If our current president were to authorize that, and fend off all oversight as he is doing presently, apparently he would be unaccountable, at least while still in office. Essentially, shooting a person in Times Square. That’s probably not where we want to go with what is already the most dangerously powerful position in our country and perhaps in the world. I’m considerably more worried about the Executive branch than the Legislative, unless a way is found to address a hyper partisan, paralyzed Senate which refuses to impeach.
1
Another thought experiment: Imagine Trump invading Mexico under the "War on Terror" and diverting funds from the federal budget to do so, justifying his actions under a declaration of "National Emergency." Recent reporting suggests he may be preparing to do this.
2
@Lewis Caraganis: Not to put too fine a point on it, but the US government is torturing American citizens in ADX Florence (i.e. on US soil) since 1994.
Rather than look at Trump's behavior as refusing to participate in a constitutional process, we should look at for what it is: the refusal of a guilty person to hand over evidence to incriminate himself. Trump is, in effect, pleading the fifth because anything he or his people would say, and any evidence they would turn over, would show that he did in fact commit the crimes he is accused of.
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@Colleen suggests "Trump is, in effect, pleading the fifth..."
While it's true the Fifth Amendment allows refusal to incriminate one's self, it does not allow influencing other witnesses who might incriminate.
6
@Colleen Pleading the fifth amendment's protection against self-incrimination is a feature of our judicial criminal procedure. Impeachment is not governed by criminal procedure rules but by rules established by Congress.
3
Congress has damaged the nation for two decades by abdicating its duties. It must be admitted that Congress, now demeaned by Trump, was more culpable in Trump's rise to power than even the media feeding frenzy. Congress has sat on immigration bills for 15 years which allowed immigration to become a flash point that gave us Trump. Obama had to rule by executive fiat as well because Congress was gridlocked. Note that Supreme Court appointees and presidential elections have become much more important in the last 20 years because those branches have had to fill the void left by Congress. Trump, as dreadful as his is, has not come close to doing the damage to this nation as Congress has done for decades. Removing Trump now or in a year is a short term fix to a long term problem in Congress, the legislature that can't legislate.
17
@dudley thompson It is interesting you mention a legislature that can’t legislate.
For the first two years of Trump’s administration, such as it is, the GOP was in the majority in both legislative chambers yet did nothing to advance Trump’s agenda set through his campaign promises.
Indeed, a legislature that can’t, or won’t, legislate.
7
What’s the hang up? The Mueller-related obstruction and the Ukraine-related obstruction are two sides of one coin. One article of impeachment should be about obstruction and refusal to be held accountable. Both examples are evidence of a longstanding impeachable behavior.
10
I imagine that most people who are old enough to remember Watergate would agree that the impeachment of Richard Nixon was conducted in a much different political environment than today’s impeachment of Donald Trump. There is a reason why the polling needle for impeachment has barely moved since the evidence and witnesses were presented by the House Intelligence Committee in the past month. In the Watergate era, there was a much higher confidence among Americans in the trust they placed in our institutions and politicians. Cynicism now permeates all things Washington. Fifty years ago, to be sure, Democrats and Republicans maintained strong views reflecting their political leanings. But today, we are much more tribal. I believe Nancy Pelosi when she says she doesn’t hate anybody and that she prays for President Trump. But I also believe that in 2016 there were powerful people in Washington who were extremely angry that Trump won the election. These same people read the sentiments of their constituency that resistance and opposition at every turn would serve to delegitimize Trump’s presidency; and they have acted accordingly. Many of the same people today that claim Trump is making a mockery of the impeachment process have spent the past three years mocking the electoral process. Reasonable people can oppose Donald Trump and at the same time oppose his impeachment.
2
@Jones I would suggest that “ mocking the electoral process” is not at all what resistance to Trump has been. We the people, and those elected persons of both parties who were mortified by his win, and justifiably worried about his many and glaring personal flaws, have not obstructed his presidency. Unless you believe that oversight is obstruction.
1
Trump's supporters would think that Trump is right about the contempt of Congress 'We the people" must remember the Congress is the only true democratic part of our government and when he is in contempt of Congress he is in contempt of us people.
14
He’s not going to be removed from office. The process isn’t influencing voters. Typically, I think it would be bad form to comment just to say you don’t care. But in this case a well-developed apathetic disengagement feels especially significant.
4
@B I think the issue being discussed is removal by impeachment, not removal by the People in 2020. Either way, apathy is irresponsible, IMO.
Bolton, Pompeo, Mulvaney and other members of the Executive Branch are all Americans who have been appointed to positions of power and authority in "public service" to and for the people of the United States. They have received payment for their service from taxes paid by Americans for their income and benefits. They have sworn oaths to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and yet they defy the lawful subpoenas of the co-equal branch of Federal government to appear and give honest answers under oath about multiple claims of high crimes and misdemeanors by an individual to whom they have no Constitutional obligation to "support and defend" or to assist in criminal behavior.
They must testify. They must answer questions. If they exercise their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination, their answers must be evidence of crimes, obstruction of justice, and they must be removed from their positions.
Our Constitution has no section enumerating "rights for Kings" but does have a section that that defines "treason" and also a section that defines the non-violent method for removal of a President for "high crimes and misdemeanors."
You don't need to be a Constitutional scholar to read and understand what those words mean.
28
"Demeaning" is a strange word here. Trump is sidelining Congress. That's treason. But it began long before Trump. Two interlocked developments: the population of the USA grew rapidly, doubling in my lifetime; and no adequate programs were put in place to ensure that the growing population understood the constitution and their civic duties. I must conclude that this was deliberate. Those who control wealth and government wanted, and got, a modern helot class, the modern equivalent of hewers of wood and carriers of water. They did not want fellow citizens. They wanted a subservient people. And it seems they got that. In a sea of ignorance, elections are meaningless. And blood-curdling rallies substitute for civics classes.
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This is the simple reality, regardless of one’s politics: Donald Trump brings out the worst in all of us.
If we hold any hope of addressing the multitude of challenges we face as a nation, if we are honest with ourselves that America will always be diverse and as a people, and we must live and work together in some semblance of productive harmony, then Donald Trump must go.
Impeachment and conviction may not yield that result, so it will be up to the better angels within all of us to see that we are better than this as a people when it comes time to cast our ballots in November.
18
@ Richard. The worst in all of us. Almost everyone. Not Speaker Pelosi. The best in her.
Re one phrase: "the obvious question of why, if the Mueller report detailed impeachable offenses, the Democrats didn’t move to impeach Mr. Trump when the report was delivered back in March."
The obvious answer is that all Democrats weren't in agreement with this, and some most likely believed that there was a pattern, but reaction to the report indicated that PUBLIC understanding of the obstruction detailed by Mueller's team had come down to believing that because Mueller didn't "draw conclusions" there was not sufficient evidence to impeach.
A reason to draw out the obstruction issues now might be to show a pattern in the President's behavior: how he implies, and insinuates, to push behavior he wants, but is generally coy about providing definitive instructions that he can be hanged on.
3
I’m for letting the whole process play out for as long as it takes. We are all well aware of the predetermined outcome in the Senate with the evidence we have so far. There is, however, much more evidence to be obtained by forcing, through the courts, subpoenaed individuals to testify. If it takes the House all the way up to the election to present each and every witness, so be it. The end result may very well be that the preordained Senate trial will never get to take place, thus depriving Trump of “exoneration” by the upper house. The House will have done its duty, exposed this unbelievable disdain for the Constitution by the Republicans, and the American people will decide.
30
We, the people, no longer have enough effective power. Republicans have moved past any election considerations: they have already begun their endgame maneuvers to have the US revert to an aristocracy where the ultra rich and powerful are beholden to no one. However, Trump has also begun his endgame maneuvers. If he knows nothing, he at least knows that he can never leave office--at least as that office is now. If he does, he and his family will likely wind up in prison and penniless. For the moment, Trump and Republican rich are sharing their efforts to demolish democracy, but the rich may not realize that Trump doesn't "share" anything. His endgame is becoming emperor. Their endgame is keeping their money and status--and an emperor might not be so inclined to have any restrictions on his megalomania. Rome was somewhat fortunate to start their emperors with Julius and Octavian, but they then got Tiberius and Caligula. The US seems to have started with Caligula. In any event, the Senate will take the same path here as it did in Rome: they operate, they bloviate, but they are toothless and expendable.
20
Democratic Senator Chris Coons recently announced there will not be enough votes in the Senate to convict Trump - he will be impeached, but will remain in office.
Similar to President Clinton, partisanship will secure an impeachment vote in the House - and that will end the inquiry. Politician analysts believe the lack of votes in the Senate will exonerate and empower Trump, increasing his chances of securing a victory in the 2020 election. Wouldn’t that be a turn of events for the Democratic Party which has lost its way with mainstream voters in America.
7
@JMS
Failure to remove trump would not be an 'exoneration' of trump. It would be a condemnation of his enablers in the Republican Party, in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Don't count on it 'increasing' the chances of winning the 2020 election. Everything that has happened so far, and will happen, has been a revelation of nothing but his corruption and contempt for the very system of government he was entrusted to lead.
There will be consequences at the voting booths.
1
@JMS I hope so. Our country and economy would crumble under these Democrat candidates.
@JMS "Wouldn’t that be a turn of events for the Democratic Party " No. Many of us saw this possible scenario long ago. But there comes a time to decide "is it better to stand up and fight, or to kneel before a combination of dictator and jester?" As for "the Democratic Party" losing "its way with mainstream voters in America..." If "mainstream" means junking the Republic and the constitution that mandates it, count me far out of the mainstream. Either one lusts after power or one has principles.
Following Trump winning the Republican nomination, the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign took over continuing to fund the Steele report. They were hoping Mr. Steele, a foreign spy would be able to use his former contacts in Russia to dig up dirt on Mr. Trump. Personally, I have no trouble with this. Finding out if an American candidate for president has a shady past is clearly in the best national interests, regardless of where or how the information is obtained. But you can't turn around and accuse Trump and his campaign of doing something when the other campaign has been actually documented doing it and caught lying about it and then finally confessing that, yes, indeed, it was doing it. As much as Trump wanted to develop a relationship with Russians to enrich himself, the Clintons, being smarter and more savvy, actually had a much deeper relationship with the Russians. Russians "donated" $144 million to their "charity." Bill was paid $500,000 for a single speech to a Russian bank. Hillary Clinton was instrumental in approving the Russians acquiring 20% of our uranium deposits. This is all public information. A WikiLeak email from the Clinton campaign revealed an internal poll the campaign conducted showed that her biggest negative with the public was her and Bill's ties to Russians. So let's be honest, both candidates were trying to use whatever means possible to dig up dirt on the other and both had significant contacts with various Russian entities.
8
@FXQ
You have missed the main point which is Trump using his powers as president to influence the 2020 election and doing it through bribery involving military aid needed by an ally in active conflict. That is a whole different sport than a candidate ‘digging up dirt’. Ukrainian soldiers died while that aid was being held up.
23
@KC
You are presupposing that the Bidens did nothing wrong, and Trump had no reason at all to ask Zelensky to look into them.
Trump had ample reason to ask Zelesnky to look into the Bidens. We have every right to ask about obvious and blatant corruption, before we hand over 400 million.
Hunter was raking in 1 million per year for a job he needed to show up only 2 days a year for. He never stepped foot in Ukraine. He was working for a corrupt company, with a corrupt owner under multiple investigations, in the most corrupt country on the planet, according to Ernst and Young.
Expecting anyone to believe that Joe Biden holding back that 1 billion to strong arm the Ukranian's to fire that prosecutor investigating Burisma's owner has nothing to do with protecting his son is simply a bridge too far. Its not going to hold. It'll all come out in a Senate trial, which will take out Joe Biden and exonerate Trump in one shot.
@FXQ Lets be honest. Putin wanted Trump to win and he hated Hillary's guts... moreover with Trump's rapacity and rampant shall we say romantic impulses, the Russians would certainly have had compromat on Trump that they would not have had on Mrs Clinton; iI get the impression she has more self control than the self confessed loiterer in female dressing rooms. Just being honest. There are many perils in compulsive sides-ism. I am not a huge fan of Hillary but she was not gong off to Moscow to run beauty pageants nor did she lie about having no deals in Moscow; nor did she ask Russia to hack another American's server.
I completely agree with the editorial board that impeachment needs to focus on the matters covered during the impeachment inquiry over the last few weeks, and not matters related to the Mueller investigation they passed on months ago.
Why bring it back when they decided it wasn’t sufficient earlier this year and wasn’t covered in the present inquiry? It dilutes the current focus on the Ukraine matter and makes it seem as if the Democrats will allege anything to get rid of this president.
5
Not participating in the impeachment process and stonewalling the House should be considered obstruction of justice.
The Muller report has new meaning after this new evidence came to light because it all revolves around Russia, after all, Putin has the president's ear.
Trump is going to figure out how this will end in his supreme court, giving us the opportunity to see if it will also demean the legislative power. We already know that it is OK with the GOP the participation of foreign powers in our elections. As long as these powers work for them.
17
@Aurace Rengifo In our 200+ year old justice system you are not required to testify in court if you are accused. It is the government’s responsibility to prove you guilty. Be careful about trying to change that system as it could harm a D President .
2
@david
Trump said he wanted to testify, The trade agreement with China is under way. He never tells the truth about anything . Hard to image anyone being worst than him in our lifetimes but his children are just like him rotten to the core
I agree with the Editorial Board that it is a big mistake from the Democrats not to submit the unanswered subpoenas to the judges of the Supreme Court. The effect of a Supreme Court decision to force the White House to hand over all the requested documents or to oblige Mike Pompeo or Mulvaney to testify before Congress, would be tremendous and could give the impeachment process much better chances of success. The refusal of Nancy Pelosi to go this way will be as fatal as the refusal of Jeremy Corbyn to insist first on a second referendum. Both will be defeated.
6
Trump is not mounting a defense because he knows he doesn't need one.
There aren't 67 votes in the Senate to remove him.
Then he gets every single day up to the election to say, "They didn't remove me from office, so I must have not done anything wrong." The undecided voters will agree with him.
This is why giving the impeachment to the Senate is a dangerous move that will probably result in re-electing Donald Trump.
Impeach him, but don't give it to the Senate.
Unless you want four more years of Donald Trump.
6
@Joe That is the sad part.
Trump's lawyers risk disbarment if they lie on his behalf. Of course they can't represent him at the impeachment hearings.
7
The best course for the House would be for the 30-31 democrats in Red districts to vote the whole thing down as a partisan waste of time. Voting for this to go forward will permanently brand these folks as do-nothing partisans who care more about scoring political points with the Left than getting anything done in Congress. It's poison in the districts they are in. They would be doing themselves, Nancy Pelosi and the country a favor by showing some backbone and driving the bus instead of getting run over by it in 11 months at the polls.
7
@Chris
But, "voting the whole thing down as a waste of time" will make a statement that nothing Trump engaged in was - pick a category a range of options, from inappropriate to seditious. This isn;t about the "Left" -- whatever you define that to be.
The do-nothing partisans are the constructionists in the GOP - led by McConnell - who will not allow any legislation passed in the House to be considered in the Senate.
7
Why is what you said hard to see. Why not irony the legislation sitting on Mc Connell desk sent over bye the house. People need to know! It’s necessary to inform the truth gop gets to say nothing is being done for Americans. Print a list of the things being done.
@Chris what does political ideology, the left and the right, have to do with Trump's high treason? Trump has violated the Emoluments Clause of the constitution he swore to uphold. You are confused.
1
It doesn't matter. Trump will win an acquittal in the Senate.
And Trump will win the election.
It is stacked against the Democrats.
And will be until we actually has a country that represents one person, one vote. And not an Electoral College that allows the votes of almost 3 million people to be invalid.
23
Democrats lived the system until they didn’t like an election outcome.
It is possible that SecState Pompeo realized the danger of what Trump/Giuliani were attempting and declined in his official capacity much as SecState Tillerson declined to aid Giuliani in securing the release of Reza Zarrab from prison in early 2017. It is important to realize the extraordinary significance of the Whistleblower's report without which the criminality would have continued in the dark. The Mueller investigation is significant because it is another case that points to multiple impeachable acts by Trump. Such behavior is not isolated but rather the essence of the Trump presidency. Giuliani is continuing to do his work now to undermine the impeachment process to increase odds of a Trump 2020 victory.
Trump has demonstrated contempt for Congress except to perform duties such as to fill courts with judges that fit Trump requirements. He has already negated the role of Congress in appropriating funds as well as any role for Congress in foreign policy. Where Obama secured authorization in 2010 from Congress for severe sanctions against Iran that are part of JCPOA, Trump has initiated economic war against Iran to bring about conditions for regime change without the consent of Congress.
Trump has already demonstrated that he feels he is not bounded by Congress. The only remaining bounds are impeachment and the 2020 election. If reelected he will have no bounds on his behavior, which would be very dangerous for the future of the U.S.
29
I am a swiss citizen, and I am appaled by the desastrous level of statemanship and moral corruption displayed by the republican side of congress.
As eloquently pointed by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Politics are one thing. You can disagree, argue, and even fight for your point of view and agenda. But there should be a line in the sand where you have to consider the bigger picture, and the higher purpose of office. The respect of the institution you serve and the Constitution you served an oath to defend.
Republicans have chained their fate to Donald Trump, more than they have to the institution of Congress. By doing so, they threaten the core principals of their democracy.
All of this abomination for what? A tax cut on the wealthy and corporations, and to flood courts with conservatives who will defend the 2nd amendment and destroy Row vs Wade.
Tax break, guns and the control of women uteruses. Are these really worthy of destroying a democracy? 30 pieces of silver were a much better bargain in my opinion.
74
President Trump's open contempt for accountability to Congress or the Constitution was also displayed when he referred to what he sees as the "phony emoluments clause".
Mr. Trump has made the sinister calculation that Republicans in the Senate, especially Sen. McConnell, will defend him no matter what, so that is all he must worry about in the final analysis. He sees anything coming from the House as just noise. It should be stunning to anyone who values the oath to the Constitution that the president and senators take that he is probably accurate in that calculation.
26
Well, as trump said repeatedly - "the system is rigged" and it is.
Nothing new here, and as said elsewhere - nobody responsible for the housing and financial crisis of ten years ago got punished - nobody.
So that set a precedent that we're living with now.
Frightening to think what precedents we're setting now that we'll be dealing with ten years from now. . . . .
19
Even if the Senate Republicans decide to join Trump's war on the House of Representatives initiated impeachment and thus subvert the whole constitutional process of holding the President accountable for his actions of constitutional transgressions and moral depredations, the House Judiciary Committee should proceed with the task of impeaching the President under the select articles of impeachment. This is the least the vigilant House could do to expose Trump's coup against the constitution and the state where the ruling party has turned into co-conspirators with Trump, more than willing to subvert the US constitutional order and its democracy.
27
@Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma Yes. The House needs to do the right thing. Let the senate Republicans do what they do. Trump will continue to push things to the point of absurdity and the back pressure will continue to build. "Time and Patience" is the Tolstoyan virtue here .
1
The House should definitely include obstruction of justice a' la Mueller in the articles of impeachment. It was clear obstruction and the courts might be ready to order McGahn by the time of the impeachment trial begins in the Senate. To do any less than this would be to reinforce the whitewash of the Mueller report by Trump and his henchman Barr.
20
To label the breath of the impeachment charges to be a divisive partisan issue is wrong !
Rather impeachment should be examined as coherent critical thinking arguments professed by Democrats in contrast to Republicans and the WH who profess "executive privilege" so the president can stop anyone from testifying because ... ; attempts to coerce actions for personal trumpian political gain were never fully realized so no harm; the president is truly an autocratic who governs without congressional oversight or influence in American politics or government.
Regardless of the breath of impeachment charges, American citizens need a impeachment trial in order to hear the WH/Republican defensive of trump's personalized actions.
11
How better to thumb your nose at the Constitution: To refuse to acknowledge a process and a right--impeachment--that is expressly enshrined in the Constitution itself. This is not a debate about the intent of the Framers or the Founding Fathers, as the right of impeachment is plainly written into the document. And Republicans used it themselves, as recently as Bill Clinton's presidency.
Trump's ignoring of the impeachment process is nothing more than a strategy to energize his base. Rather than try to defend what he cannot defend, he declared the process bogus and refused to show up. Then he goes even a step further in his arrogance, this week sending Rudy Giuliani back to Ukraine to find more "evidence" of corruption relating to Joe Biden. (And, by the way, who exactly is paying Rudy Guiliani for all of this Ukraine work?)
The Republicans have decided that their retention of power is the single most important thing above all else--more important than the Constitution, more important than the cultural, political and moral health of the nation, and more important than facts and truth.
26
@Jack Sonville -- The Giuliani payment question is an interesting one. It looks like there was a time during which Trump treated Giuliani as his lawyer-for-free, while Lev Parnas was paying Giuliani for work related to the same subject matter. If Parnas turns out to be an agent of a foreign power, as he may be, . . . what then?
Trump could resolve his impeachment dilemma in a flash, so easily.
He claims to be totally innocent so all he has to do is stop blocking the House Impeachment Inquiry subpoenas.
Problem solved.
Unless ...
(Well, we know the other side of that coin, don’t we?)
39
If Trump is above the law, he can rig the next election. This does not disturb Southerners, who have been rigging elections for generations. Elections are just a sales pitch to get people to buy the legitimacy of the government.
32
Everyone is missing the real issue. Trump's refusal to turn over documents and allow his people to testify makes gathering evidence very difficult, so that the evidence Congress has gathered has large holes in it -- the holes that would be filled by testimony under oath of his cabinet officials and others.
Trump's refusal makes it virtually impossible for Congress to perform oversight, and so it is unconstitutional and a grounds for impeachment. As a matter of fact, it is the primary grounds of impeachment, and needs no testimony to back it up, only Trump's refusal to cooperate.
Making this the grounds for impeachment would force Senate Republicans to defend and vote for a Presidency without oversight or limits to its power. They would probably vote for this, but their coup would at least be more obvious than it is now.
37
@sdavidc9
Excellent post! I agree that Obstruction of Justice may be the strongest charge in Articles of Impeachment. Trump's behavior in refusing to cooperate with Congressional Oversight Committees is well documented, and is indefensible. Making the case clear to the American people is, perhaps, even more important than trying to change the minds of Republicans, which are set in stone.
14
@sdavidc9 Their coup is crystal clear. And the old reality still remains: most Americans can't spell "constitution," let alone read and understand it. Two thirds can't name two of the branches of government.
1
Trump has demonstrated the weaknesses and deficiencies in our outdated Constitution. It needs to be rewritten. If representatives of the states cannot come together in basic agreement on the fundamentals of a union then we have our answer to the fate of the nation. The American experiment must provide the means to affirm its own viability otherwise its failure is inevitable.
7
@Webber
Our problem is not the Constitution, but rather the electorate. Many of them want the appearance and rhetoric of democracy without the reality.
25
@sdavidc9 Our problem is also the Republican sycophants who have discarded their oath of defending the Constitution, and would be outraged if a Democratic president behaved similarly.
"To justify including articles related to the Mueller inquiry, though, Democrats would need to overcome a couple of common-sense obstacles. One of these is the obvious question of why, if the Mueller report detailed impeachable offenses, the Democrats didn’t move to impeach Mr. Trump when the report was delivered back in March."
The obvious answer is that Democrats have been asking for the unredacted report and the supporting documentation ever since the report was issued, in an effort to bolster their case. Now that there are independent grounds for impeachment, it makes sense to consolidate the obstruction articles of impeachment with the Ukraine business in one proceeding.
22
@Jim they really could not do anything what with the mueller report, and why, because a justice department memo says a sitting president cannot be charged with a crime. how does a memo from the justice department become law? this president and his minions are trying to make the president a king. do we really want a king? not me.
1
The most grating word this administration and its familiars bandy like broadsword is “baseless.” They contend that everything that Trump is accused of is exactly that. This is the level of contempt for the affairs of state and ordered, honest, competent, government that the Republican machine has descended like an out of control tunnelling contraption.
Career diplomats and decorated military officers have risked everything apparently to make baseless claims about an accidental president who, ironically, is the quintessential embodiment of baseness. What would one have to do within the range of vision and hearing of a Republican to be ineffably incriminated in something? Invent another use for a cigar, perhaps.
If only Trump’s crimes involved the novel use of tobacco.
8
@Marcus Brant
If you had actually listened to the testimony instead of reading what the NYT editorial board's opinion is of the testimony, you would understand why the educated people in the country think the charges are baseless.
Multiple career military and diplomatic personnel have testified to the House that the presidents policy with respect to Ukraine is wrong. They disagree with his policy and think he's stupid. That is not impeachable. the elected official gets to determine policy even if the experts disagree.
With respect to the quid pro quo, every person who spoke with Trump has asserted that he did not want a quid pro quo. All of the testimony from the experts is that they assumed he was pushing for a quid pro quo. Assuming something based on second and third hand knowledge is not evidence, it is opinion.
Compare and contrast with Joe Biden bragging threatened to deny aid to Ukraine [Obama was not about to give military aid or even sell weapons to Ukraine because that would interfere with his Buddy Putin's invasion] unless they fired a prosecutor, which was a quid pro quo. His argument is that it was in the interests of the US because the prosecutor was incompetent. It doesn't change the fact that his son was taking money from an organization that is so corrupt John Kerry's stepson wouldn't take money from them.
@ebmem
WEll, I'm an educated person from another country, and the accusations against Trump are far from baseless except to the wil fully blind and complicit.
1
It baffles me. How come not a single representative from Republican party has spoken against Trump? It is clear to anyone with an ounce of gray matter that Trump needs to be removed from office. However, every single Republican in the House was vehemently defending Trump. Didn't they take oath of office to defend the Constitution? Watching the Republican Senators already defending Trump as well, it's certain he won't be removed from WH. Bigger question is: did Russia buy the entire Republican party? Why else would anybody try to defend the indefensible?
38
@ebmem
You cite no evidence for your claims, because there is no credible evidence for them. This quote from a Trump speech in July, 2016, during the last months of the campaign, says it all:
"Russia, if you are listening, I hope you are able to find the 30, 000 emails that are missing."
As is often the case, a Trump supporter has the facts wrong. Voters with a college degree supported Clinton,not Trump. See https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/. I could find no data on voters without a high school diploma. With regard to the question of understanding democracy, Trump was put in office by the Electoral College, not the "people ". That still makes him the President, but like the minority elected (constitutional) Senate, and the minority (gerrymandered) elected House (until 2019) it does not feel to many of us like "democracy" as we learned in civics class
1
@Ganyavya
It has been obvious to the majority of voters in California that Trump should never have been elected. They are baffled by democracy.
There is no evidence that Trump conspired with Russians to influence the election and there is evidence, documented, that Hillary and the DNC did conspire with the Russians to interfere in the election.
Mueller concluded that the Russians wanted Trump to win and his evidence is that Trump won.
The majority of voters who lack a high school diploma voted for Hillary. The majority of voters who have a college degree voted for Trump.
4
The best case for the House is to bring every offense Trump has committed involution of the United States Constitution.
Republicans have already gone on record saying it is wrong for the President to bribe a foreign nation to withhold monies appropriated by Congress for their military defenses against Russia unless he receives dirt on his political opponents, but not impeachable.
It is absurd, yet in keeping with the Brown Shirt cult, to make such an argument.
In order to bring down Trumpism, the nation much bring every violation of the Constitution agains him. Individual Republicans will look past any one violation, but a fulsome recanting of every lawless violation of the rule of law is necessary to peel away enough individuals of integrity to bring down Trump.
Trump will not be reelected without foreign assistance. As such, he will not be accepted by the people from November 3, 2020 should he win with another deficit of the popular vote.
We will see another war of resistance that will not end before Trump is jailed, should that sad outcome be repeated.
8
I think the Democrats are reasoning that the case against djt is such a strong criminal case that only a blind and deaf juror would turn him loose on the US after hearing the evidence. A second reason for speed is that they are afraid of him close to the election.
The case for waiting is that the American people are not lawyers and can be swayed like any jury so the strength of the evidence without a video tape of djt threatening Zilinski directly can be manipulated.
By waiting, there is also the great possibility that other pro-impeachment occurrences will happen. McGhan may be forced to testify, djt tax returns may be released, Bill Barr may be disbarred, further criminal charges against republican cult figures involved in these illegal activities.
7
Well of course IF the next election is already being compromised the REPUBLICAN PARTY IS COMPLICIT IN A TREASONOUS ACT.
What is needed here is a cross-departmental letter issued to the White House declaring that Trump must leave office. The letter would be signed by Federal Judges and the Heads of United States Military. This is becoming a runaway train, and labeling the House Votes as entirely partisan might end in a protracted court battle. He doesn't care until the Supreme Court gets to decide, right? Can we afford to wait when someone like this gets the job? A lot of his close associates are heading for (or already in) jail, but this is his version of "presidential". His many lawyers are being kept busy, while all eyes are on Guliani. Plenty of distractions, lots of scandalous behavior for all to see. Trump is smart on stage, but when he occasionally gets off, he sits at his desk and pushes buttons on a little gadget
while watching to make sure Fox News only says nice things. It's like they're "under contract" to say ONLY nice things, or they get complaints from the WH. Doesn't anyone think that's weird?
Fox has been pushing junk news at people year after year, all in support of one party, exonerating the people in power and whitewashing their failures.
Per Above: We need Plan-B; A Letter and Vote of Disapproval, and Demand for DJT's Removal. But not from the Democrats- from Everyone Else (Federal Employees) that swore to obeys the laws.
13
The Congress in the House was changed to a Democrat majority at the 2018 mid terms by the American people; and by a record 9 million vote margin; or as Trump might say, millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of tremendous incredible and perfect votes; it was tiring how much the Dems won by; they must have got sick of winning by so many votes.
The American subjects - formerly known as citizens- did this to put a check on Trump's excesses. Trump by showing contempt for Congress, is by definition showing contempt for the American people. By slavishly showing obeisance to him, the party formerly known as the Republican Party is sharing in his hubris and his contempt. QED or perhaps QPQ.
41
@Bob Guthrie
In 2010, The Republicans gained a majority in the House and Democrats lost their majority. Democrats lost six Senate seats.
In the comparable Trump midterm election in Republicans lost the majority in the House and gained two seats in the Senate.
Obama was repudiated in 2010, the results for Trump were mixed.
@ebmem Not comparable at all because the ambient occurrences were vastly different.
You are not analysing why the respective repudiations occurred; for vastly different reasons. There was no question of Obama's integrity in terms of national security. Also although Obama's shellacking was severe it was not the record defeat Trump suffered. Whatever Obama's flaws were, he was never a threat to democracy itself. Moreover Obama took responsibly for his shellacking unlike a certain current president. Obama did not make 2 flagrant false promises in his mid terms; like promising the 10% middle class tax cut that Trump did; furthermore he did not promise to protect preexisting coverage as Trump did, as his junta was going to court to dissolve preexisting conditions. You say "Obama was repudiated in 2010, the results for Trump were mixed." So are you proposing Trump was NOT repudiated when he lost by a record 9 million votes? If Trump were not repudiated well is it not interesting that Trump's hammering lead to his impeachment. Obama's shellacking did not; at least he admitted that he was getting a message just as Trump refused to accept reality at all and literally claimed a great result. I don't want to give you the Memphis Blues , but with respect I contend that your comment is a specious false equivalence.
8
Now that political partisanship takes precedence over the constitution there is little hope that America will regain its decency and democracy.
Once a country has lost its soul it is very difficult to get it back.
28
@Michael Kittle - Yes, things here look dire, but there is still hope that Trump (and many Republicans) will be voted out in 2020, despite Putin’s involvement in our election processes and Republicans’ skill at stealing elections. If Trump loses the election and refuses to concede, there is still hope that he will be dragged away from his golf course — I mean, from the White House — and caged. Otherwise, it may be time for the secretive Madame Defarges to come out.
1
@Michael Kittle
As long as Democrats wage a partisan battle, democracy is challenged in the US. It is unfortunate that they are so filled with hate they cannot distinguish between fact and opinion.
If the Democrats ignore the Mueller Report, thepublic will conclude Barr, was right, Trump is exonerated. If the seller report was a "hoax" probably the impeachment is too. "Evidence" is irrelevant here. there's only one fact that matters: any Republican that sides with the Democrats against Trump will find themselves out of work. The only value in the entire exercise is to outline in excruciating detail the crimes of Trump, for the benefit of those who aren't wired into Fox 24/7. To that end, the crimes outlined in the Mueller report need to be brought to the attention of the people who will be voting next November. Otherwise "It was all a hoax" will be the take away.
20
@Tom Sage
The Mueller report absolutely asserted there was no evidence that Trump and company conspired with foreign agents.
1
@ebmem
The Muellar Report did find at least 10 instances of Obstruction of Justice, but could not prosecute because of a DOJ "rule" that says the President can be prosecuted for a crime while in office. The Report clearly stated that they could not "exonerate" Trump on Obstruction of Justice. Continue to support your criminal President, but don't expect thinking people to do the same.
8
@ebmem
Your statement, simply stated, is false. If you look at Volume 1, page 34 of the Mueller Report, for example, you will actually see the evidence of the coordination and facilitation of activities between the Russian agents and members of the Trump Campaign and family. There was insufficient evidence to prove that those Trump officials knew that the agents were Russian, at the time, so they managed to avoid indictment - in other words, but for their ignorance and failures to perform due diligence they'd have been prosecuted.
4
This is Trump's style all along: will never admit he erred. Everything he does is "perfect". Because the facts that we know so far of the Ukrainian case are clear, indisputable and undeniable, Trump has no recourse but to stonewall and say nothing. My hope is that John Roberts will require full disclosure so that all Americans can know the truth.
29
@Jonathan Cahill I don't believe that Chief Justice Roberts can preside over the Senate hearing/vote while allowing flimsy arguments by the defense that could be countered by testimony from WH insiders whose appearance is being held-up by his own court.
To keep Roberts from throwing up his hands, obstruction must be an article. The present case (WH behavior during Ukraine investigations) is strong.
12
@Not THE Donald
The Chief Justice presides over the trial in the Senate. The Senators determine guilt or innocence.
You seem to think it is a criminal trial. It is a political trial. Clinton was impeached and it was absolutely determined that he was guilty of multiple crimes. The Senate voted that obstruction of justice and perjury were not sufficiently serious offenses to warrant removing him from office, so they acquitted him.
If Clinton admitted to his crimes and was not removed from office, what makes you believe that the opinion of Schiff that Trump is guilty is persuasive?
2
The Mueller Report should have resulted in articles of impeachment- but it didn't. To revive them now has the effect of piling on after the person has been tackled. Stick with the Ukraine situation. The most offensive thing Trump has done is make it impossible for Congress to perform it's oversight duty by denying witnesses and relevant paperwork. The evidence he has obstructed Congress is overwhelming. Let's avoid muddying the waters with articles of impeachment from a report that both democrats and republicans mostly abandoned months ago.
21
@Joe Trump has made it more difficult for Congress to perform its oversight duty by requiring that it play by the rules established by the Courts. Just because you don't like a person, doesn't mean that you can invent whatever rules you may find convenient. It's particularly absurd when you say that someone is obstructing your investigation by that someone invoking their legal rights.
4
@Dan
I agree that just because you don't like a person you can't invent your own rules...Congress has subpoena power to compel witnesses. If the executive branch- either party- decides they think a lawful congressional oversight investigation is a sham and is allowed to simply ignore the subpoena, our system of checks and balances is broken....Now Trump's people can plead the fifth if needed. However, if Trump had a "perfect" call and there is nothing to hide, why not let everybody testify and put an end to this investigation so we can all go home. I'm good with that if Trump has evidence he did nothing wrong.
3
@Joe
The House has the right to subpoena witnesses. The president has the right to assert executive privilege. The courts exist, in part, to mediate disputes between the executive and legislative and executive branches. Isn't it kind of jumping the gun for you to equate resistance to partisan inquiries to a violation of the checks and balances?
One of the recent judicial rulings is that one of Trump's staff has to testify. Assuming the ruling survives appeal, it also stipulates that although the individual has to appear before Congress and testify, the court is not necessarily ruling that he has to answer any questions that violate executive privilege.
Think back in time, Holder refused to testify about Fast and Furious and Lois Lerner refused to testify about IRS corruption. Where was your complaint that Obama was behaving as an imperial wizard? Hillary lied to Congress over the Benghazi fiasco.
1
Not mounting a defense is the defense. The real problems for Congress are apart from Trump. The first reason, generally, is that Congress is held in exceedingly low repute by the American people. During those charming old days, when impeachment proceedings were ongoing, Congressional approval ratings were far higher. The second reason, specifically related to impeachment, is that public opinion has never come around. At all. You need something like seventy per cent of the public in favor of overturning an election through impeachment to make a reasonable run at it. But anyone paying attention has understood this all along.
11
@Frunobulax
That a sizable minority of the American people will never support Trump's impeachment, even if the charge were "shooting someone on 5th Avenue," does not mean that the House should not exercise its duty under the Constitution. If this defiance of the Constitution is not rebuked, this country is in serious trouble.
5
If the House were serious about impeachment, they would subpoena Bolton, Pompeo, etc. and force their testimony through the courts, as happened with Nixon. But they are not. They are simply appeasing the base and want the Senate to put an end to this as quickly as possible with the inevitable acquittal, hoping the voters forget about this before the election. With the election coming up in eleven months, there is no reason for any of this. The American people will have their say. I, for one, believe that impeachment will make Trump’s reelection more, not less, likely.
9
@Jon S The House did subpoena Bolton. H's defying the subpoena.
The House Judiciary Committee subpoenad Dan McGahn in May, in connection with the Mueller report. That dragged through the courts until this month, when a lower court ruled that McGahn can testify. And Trump vowed to appeal.
How long would it take to get to the end of appeals over testimony regarding Ukraine? Running out the clock has always been a tactic Trump used if he could.
17
@Jon S
Nixon was never compelled to testify in any impeachment hearing, if you check back in history. He was, ultimately, forced to turn over the tape recordings.
What Schiff wants Bolton, Pompeo, et al to testify to is what Trump was thinking, not what Trump actually did. It is unlikely that they will be able to compel testimony about opinions.
2
@Chris Winter
Assuming the judicial ruling survives the appeal, it does not require McGahn to answer questions that violate executive priviledge.
1
It's not just trump doing the demeaning. 40+% of
the population has no use for an independent
legislative branch. They want a rubber
stamp for the current executive. The
trumpicans in congress are only too happy to behave
as if that is what they already are--mere
public vestiges of a formerly democratic form
of self governing.
The size of those who deeply believe this is too large
to dismiss as a mere transient phenomenon. The toxic, indeed deadly effect upon the country is already baked
into how we will conduct the next presidential campaign
and election, not to mention the impeachment.
The profound inertia, for which
trumpicans are responsible, in securing (as much as possible) the electoral infrastructure from foreign interference and manipulation has already
insured a crisis of legitimacy, if we were honest enough to confront that rigorously, since it is clear that
no groundswell in defense of our republic is going to lead to a 60-40 electoral difference.
Indeed, there will be a very close
election, one with little legitimacy except among
those who believe that playing along with the illusion
that we are still a stressed but functioning democracy somehow serves some public good.
The election will be conducted in the heat of partisan all out
warfare where little, if any, honest dialogue will be attended to.
Instead, far too many will ignore this fundamental issue and convince themselves to vote in their limited economic self interest.
11
@bl
Trump supporters, and the rest of the country, want Congress to pass laws and put an end to the partisan desire and actions to overturn the 2016 election.
The reason the Dems are considering Trump’s Mueller Report testimony is because he perjured himself per Rick Gates’ testimony that he did know a priori of Wikileaks dump of HRC’s email because Roger Stone called Trump to inform him in Gates’ presence. If Clinton could be impeached for perjury over infidelity, Trump can be over for working with a non-military ally foreign intelligence agency for personal gain. Tactically, the Dems should censure him first, as the Senate has no say in that. Secondly, they should wait out, McGahn, Bolton and Mulvaney, or hire a bailiff to indefinitely detain all 3. Drafting and voting on Articles of Impeachment now, gives both the Senate and Trump too much time to benefit from their hopelessly spineless sham trial. While the Dems are at it, the should censure Pence, Barr, Pompeo, as well as McConnell. The later for dereliction of duty (290 bills on his desk) and obstruction of a Supreme Court Justice.
25
@Mark
Trump jokingly asked the Russians to release Hillary emails after she had already deleted them from her secret server, bleached her secret server and refused to turn it over to the FBI.
It was impossible for his request to be asking the Russians to hack Hillary's server because the server was no longer in existence, unless Hillary was lying about having destroyed the server. It was a joke, because the Hillary emails related to her illegal communications while she was Secretary of State.
The WikiLeaks dump was of the DNC server. There were no Hillary emails released, there were DNC emails released which did reveal that the DNC was doing everything in its power to prevent anyone except Hillary from getting the Democrat nomination, that political operatives were feeding her debate questions, etc. It is interesting that the DNC did not ever allow the FBI to examine the servers that had been hacked. The Mueller evidence reported supporting the narrative that the Russians hacked the DNC server is not based on FBI investigation. It is based on a contractor the DNC hired to evaluate the server, and the consulting firm has Ukrainian owners. It is extraordinary that Mueller was unable to get direct access by FBI forensic experts to examine the DNC servers, but rather accepted the results provided by a DNC paid contractor.
Our government fell apart after political engineering by Wealth, bought Congress. Aligned by legislative districts to guarantee elections and control of Congress whereby both sides refuse to claim any middle ground and leave extremes to decide the direction of America. Extremes as opposed to the moderate middle.
The GOP with moderate constituents can sit with contempt and rely on extreme views to carry the day. How could they disagree with their own colleagues and betray their voters?
It's not to say the Democrats wouldn't do the same if Trump had been their candidate.
Congress only cares about what keeps them in office. That guarantee of status, power and wealth.
Trump is merely the abomination, born of the erosion of ethics and morals.
Don't what our founding fathers meant in including impeachment in the Constitution.
Ask yourself if you think our founding fathers would impeach Trump now.
Spinning in their graves.
7
@Eric What a relief to read your comment which nails the corruption in DC. And this is why the Dems appear so weak and seem so worried about what the republicans will say. I guess the Dem's donors gave them permission to impeach. Nancy sure held off long enough and looked as if she was protecting trump, no matter how she spins it. As you say, it is all about most of Congress wanting to keep their jobs and the bribes coming in. How I loath the presidential candidates who already answer to the wealthy donners and want to join Congress in the grift. I am grateful to Bernie and AOC and the rest of the squad for not taking the bribes and actually calling out the corruption and working for regular people.
5
@Eric What a relief to read your comment which nails the corruption in DC. And this is why the Dems appear so weak and seem so worried about what the republicans will say. I guess the Dem's donors gave them permission to impeach. Nancy sure held off long enough and looked as if she was protecting trump, no matter how she spins it. As you say, it is all about most of Congress wanting to keep their jobs and the bribes coming in. How I loath the presidential candidates who already answer to the wealthy donners and want to join Congress in the grift. I am grateful to Bernie and AOC and the rest of the squad for not taking the bribes and actually calling out the corruption and working for regular people. PS I graduated Bothell High in 1961, I remember Renton fondly. Nothing like today I assume.
@Eric Not only would the founding fathers act decisively to impeach Trump, the Republicans would have acted twice as fast had the same actions been taken by the Obama administration or a H. Clinton administration. It would be a fatuous lie for the GOP to say otherwise.
1
If nothing else the impeachment inquiry has clearly shown that Republicans no longer care about the US Constitution. None of the Republican has done anything to find out the truth about the Ukraine episode but instead are only using their time at the hearings to distract and put out sound bites for right wing media. The Republican Party is indeed now Trump's party which means it is a party taken over by populists who thrive on conspiracy theories and do not trust the mainstream media, academics, or scientists and regard whatever Trump says as being true. Although no amount of evidence showing that Trump held up critical military aid to Ukraine in order to secure help with his reelection will result in his removal from office it is important that the Democrats conduct this impeachment process in case democracy survives Trump and the Republicans because it places a limit on presidential power. Nobody at this point can be sure whether the US will turn into a fascist state or experience a renewal of democracy. If the former occurs impeachment will not matter but if it is the latter then what the Democrats are doing with impeachment will be extremely important.
32
@Bob From one Bob to another- exactly. The NYT editors in this pertinent, cautionary and salutary price have said
"Richard Nixon was far more compliant with Congress, as was Bill Clinton. They felt like they had to be. And they felt like they should be. Those were different eras."
Yes different eras but perhaps it is also due to the different people. I wonder if Mr Graham would have been able to be so preposterously hypocritical and inconsistent back then. Could such a cartoonish figure have been able to survive in the Watergate era? I can't decide which is a more decisive factor, the person or the era. It is mystifying because with the increased IT one might think it would be harder to get away with it now- yet he has so far. So is it the era or is it the personalities?
1
I heard an interesting argument by David Frum on CBC radio. He thinks impeachment rather than waiting for the verdict of voters is a mistake by the Dems (I disagree). But he also says that since impeachment is already in progress, the worst thing the Dems could do is rush it through the House.
For one thing, the Supreme Court will soon (but not imminently) decide whether to hear an appeal against a lower court's order regarding trump's financial records, and Frum believes there's a good chance it won't take on the case. If this happens, trump's bankers will be forced to surrender his records, and potentially strengthen the case for impeachment.
Secondly, Frum believes that rapid impeachment by the House will prematurely pass control of the process to the Senate, where the Republicans will be totally uninterested in the merits and use it as a vehicle for propaganda and misinformation, which trump can take full advantage of in a long election campaign.
I agree with Frum on this. The Dems should take their time to build the strongest possible case. Then throw the book at trump - the more articles of impeachment the better - and dare the Republicans to turn the Senate trial into a circus.
And finally, if trump ends up ignoring the subpoenas from the House for witnesses and document, learn from the GOP: forget highfalutin arguments and just ask, again and again, a question that can easily resonate with the public: what is trump hiding?
23:20 EST, 12/08
42
@mancuroc
The role of the House in impeachment is somewhat like a Grand Jury that hands down an indictment. The Senate is the setting for the trial. The jury there will never find Mr. Trump guilty; they'll never impeach him. Perhaps the House should censure the president rather than provide the Republicans in the Senate with the opportunity to say "Witch Hunt" a few thousand times. And, as you observe, perhaps in the interim, Mr. Trump will be forced to reveal his financial records.
4
@mancuroc -- Your comment makes sense. I agree. Problem is, Nancy Pelosi. She is worried that it is going to take a lot of campaigning to suppress progressives and build support for a pro-plutocracy Democrat. That is what is dictating the schedule.
Dems ought to dump Pelosi, and adopt the thorough approach to impeachment you recommend.
Lets face it Trump basically has betrayed our country. Nancy Pelosi, a mother of 5, is used to concept of loving the child but not approving some of their behavior. She has awesomely applied this to our "President eternal teenager", and in staying away from personal slams, she owns the day. Good mothers don't react to the mis-deeds of their off-spring; despite at times being exasperated, moms maintain their love for the child, and a disapproval as well as a development of consequences for some of their behavior. Perhaps Trump has needed a good mom all along.
15
Partisanship drives the government to gridlock. Now the ante has gone up substantially - future presidents will be vulnerable to impeachment by whim of the House. What's next on the partisan agenda? Politicize the judicial branch more than it already is? Stack the SCOTUS to suit the party in power?
All parties are making a mockery of our Constitution.
5
@John Bowman
If there were clearly no grounds for impeachment and an investigation was not warranted (as trump claims in his usual bellicose manner), then the Dems could justifiably be accused of mocking the Constitution. That, however, is not the case. The villains here, quite clearly, are the GOP, who in the face of grounds at least warranting an investigation, are doing everything in their sleazy power to make a mockery of the investigation, and so the impeachment.
If impeachment of trump is making future presidents vulnerable to impeachment, non-impeachment of trump is giving future presidents absolute immunity to do whatever they like. That, to me, is a far scarier outcome.
31
@RickyDick It's still a sad commentary on our government. Things won't be better no matter the outcome of the impeachment or the election.
@John Bowman Ask yourself. what is your idea ? Vote? stop gerrymandering? What are you going to do? Run for a local office? Support people you like? I disagree with you on one point, I do not believe all parties are making a mockery of the Constitution. Only certain individuals are doing that. Take your pick about those congressional leaders who do have power. Please remember, Senator Mitch McConell of Kentucky said, " my job is to make sure Obama is a one term president." so dear john, would that not be an example of what you do not like?
2
Nancy Pelosi should stop worrying about how hard impeachment is on the country. To be clear, there is NO CHOICE. The quid pro is impeachable, but more importantly, the obstruction is the real reason to impeach. The Executive Branch and Congress are co-equal branches of government. If obstruction becomes the norm, no matter who wins in 2020 this democracy is damaged goods and will not survive.
43
@Michael Great point. The sweeping under the carpet of the numerous proofs of Obstruction in the Mueller Report has already normalised it. I think your point is a powerful one in that the normalising has already commenced. Please survive, American democracy; the world is depending on it.
It is by your reasoning Michael extremely dangerous to ignore the Obstruction citations in Mueller.
7
@Bob Guthrie not sure the world depends on it anymore but at least we here in the United States still do.
To agree to impeachment Republicans would be admitting to the full breadth of their conspiracy. They would open themselves up to a wider and in-depth investigation into every high ranking republican. If it touched Pence, Pompeo, and Barr, Mitch McConnell was in on it too. It would consume and bring down the entire Party and reach into Fox News and Rupert Murdoch. This is a conspiracy worth billions and Republicans will bring the full power and force of the Party and its multi-billion dollar propaganda machine to fight it. This is about power and the ability to project ultimate power. We are witnessing the flexing of Republican warfare power. If they can pull this off they have shown how they can defeat democracy. We see how the battle is fought. Remember Republicans love Putin - he is a powerful leader. They said for a reason. We see the Russian playbook. The Republican Party is a very powerful criminal enterprise and threatens the very existence of democracy in American. We are in for extremely troubling and brutally dangerous times. The Republican war on democracy has just begun. I just do not see how this ends well.
76
@BillC Agree. Not to engage flippantly in histrionics but IMO if President Trump and the Republicans are allowed to pull this off, it will be outright confirmation of the beginning of the end of your democracy.
37
All that really matters in this sordid affair is that Donald Trump be rebuked by his congressional overseers so that he and his acolytes feel a palpable, political sting that courses through poll numbers now, and lasts straight through the 2020 election. Selling out the interests of our country and the constitution he swore to protect & defend, for his own personal self-interest allowing him to cheat his way to reelection, is a transgressive insult on every citizen in this country. He must be called to task for his rogue behavior or we and the congress will be complicit in the dissolution of our constitutional democracy. There is no set of ‘alternative facts’ that portrays what Trump has done in a justifying light. If we are not strong enough to stand up for what is clearly the right course of action in this matter, we deserve to experience life in the autocratic aftermath of an extended reign of Trump. Would that never not comes to pass.
For what it matters, including the case made by Mueller in favor of an obstruction indictment of POTUS risks delegitimizing the correct course of action impeaching Trump over the Ukraine scandal. As comprehensive and valid as Mueller’s report was, it is too tightly entwined with the machinations of an equally corrupt William Barr. It can too readily be called into question by those so inclined because of Barr’s past prevarications. Stay focussed on what can be most easily sold to the public—Trump’s Ukrainian crimes committed in real time.
20
The only checks and balances Republicans are concerned with are how they can check Democrats from ever balancing the scales of power. The Republican Senate has only produced a single product; judges who have extreme right-wing bona fide (my spell check wanted bonanza Fidel - maybe that’s better). They are trying to limit voting or altering results through gerrymandering to undermine one person one vote to win the House. And they apparently feel foreign influence will always be there to help them win the presidency. If Trump is undermining Congressional power, that is one less thing for Republicans to worry about.
19
@DO5
Agreed. You could also say the only checks and balances that GOP representatives and senators are concerned about are their cheques from Russia and the balances of their slush fund accounts.
7
Are these proceedings all for show, because where is any talk of what the forgone conclusion everybody knows is going to happen when this gets to the Senate? Nowhere?
5
@Ratza Fratza : These proceedings are not "for show" no matter what a corrupt Senate may or may not do. Someone has to uphold the law. Someone has to uphold The Constitution. If only the Democrats respect our laws and our Constitution so be it. And it is a very dangerous and tragic time for our nation, when we have a president and his party who are simply deceitful, obfuscating, unlawful thugs.
1
An observation from the north, again. If this President is allowed, without formal challenge, to dismiss and ignore the constitutional process of your Congress in this instance, then he and perhaps future Presidents will have this precedent to pseudo-justify doing so in other instances. IMO that is a step on the slippery slope to totalitarian government.
I am not well versed enough to know if the articles of impeachment would be better if narrowed to Ukraine or broadened to include Mueller. They need to be placed on whichever footing has the most public credibility because, it appears, the Senate Republican majority will not vote for impeachment, leaving President Trump the podium from which to broadcast his innocence and his narrative that it was all a hoax and a witch hunt. In order to restore public confidence in the integrity and credibility of your governmental institutions, the Democrats need to have laid sufficient groundwork to cause a majority of the public to dismiss his bloviating, notwithstanding that the impeachment itself did not pass the Senate.
34
For the first time in 20 years, I'm going to vote an entirely Democratic ticket. I have always made one GOP exception for a local representative who does a good job, but this year I will not be able to look past her affiliation with the party that calls itself "Republican." Rick Wilson nailed it, the Republican Party are now "The Traitors Among Us."
I'm not a religious man, but "god save us all" if Trump cheats his way into another four years.
130
@Aluetian I salute you. I agree with you that anyone left in the GOP party is not to be trusted.
3
Talk of President Trump's "attempted interference in the 2020 election through Ukraine" is odd: can an American be guilty of "interference" in American elections? Russia's 2016 election meddling is not the right analogy when foreigners were not the meddlers, but mere pawns.
The better analogy is a hypothetical: suppose President Obama had covertly forced the F.B.I. to officially announce its probe of Trump's campaign before the 2016 election. Such a use of presidential power could not possibly be proper, given Department of Justice guidelines against such announcements. (James Comey's breaking of these
guidelines was ruled improper by the D.O.J. Inspector General and by Trump appointee Rod Rosenstein.) An improper use of presidential power to tilt an election is an impeachable abuse.
Mr. Trump has cited Mr. Comey's improper announcement to justify Mr. Comey's firing; Mr. Trump's effort to coerce such an announcement justifies his.
6
Both Clinton and Nixon had far more moral issues in their impeachment cases - the guilt cowered them down and increased the glue in the Congress to humble them and the Congress was able to get what it wants. Also, both were just politicians.
Contrast that with Trump’s impeachment scenario. What he did is wrong only because someone made the rules to say it is wrong. Tit for tat happens in business America all the time, and to do the same in politics arguably is less sinister. In addition, Trump is an accomplished individual who earned his chops outside of politics. So of course he will be gutsy as NYT also suggests.
The deal however is this.
What is happening in America is as much a sign of the state of affairs today - America is so divided economically, racially, socially that it is unlikely that it will resort to agreement and bipartisan civility for the foreseeable future. The founders made assumptions about a common compass of agreement of some sort that no longer holds. The country is at war within. As long as the economic inequality holds and grows, the racial nonsense is not addressed directly, this disagreement will hold - enough to make any impeachment partisan. And the immorality of the President will need to have significant weight to overcome the partisanship.
America has changed. It’s constitution must catch up.
2
@Vsh Saxena "Tit for tat happens in business America all the time, and to do the same in politics arguably is less sinister.
Really? It seems you don't understand exactly what the quid pro quo (which, btw, is not the same as, but rather the opposite of tit for tat) involved in this case.
1
@Vsh Saxena Trump is anything but accomplished. His premier skills are lying and name calling...grifter, at best, all the way.
I’m sorry...”Trump is an accomplished individual who earned?”
Hilarious.
There's something very wrong with a sitting American President asking a foreign country to investigate a citizen to help aid his personal political campaign, but when it's done not once but three times -- it's time to take action.
And no matter what Donald Trump or congressional Republicans say, this also constitutes an impeachable offense, while withholding federal funds already allocated to Ukraine constitutes a federal crime.
The witnesses have testified. The evidence is there.
Guilty as charged.
Case closed.
49
@N. Smith
Agreed. And Trump's refusal to cooperate amounts to a plea of "No Contest."
2
If Congress doe not matter, neither will the courts. We know that in his mind, Trump feels they do not matter, only he matters. If the Constitution does not matter, than elections will not matter, and the checks and balances envisioned by the Framers will be unbalanced and hung out on a line for all to see. Why this is not seen by Republicans is really astonishing. Just one crisis and the rule of law will be "suspended" and then it will be permanent. Oaths of fealty to the constitution mean nothing to Trump or his die-hard followers, and we will need only wait for the next courier from the Kremlin for orders.
20
Everyone agrees that Impeachment is a political process. Over forty-five years ago, a group of Republican leaders who had realistically assessed the situation as hopeless, visited President Nixon and told him that he should resign for the good of the country. Perhaps it is time for a group of realistic Democratic leaders to approach Nancy Pelosi and tell her that there is no hope for President Trump to be removed from office, and that she should end this dreadfully destructive Impeachment process for the good of the country.
6
@Dan Lorey, impeachment is justified even if Trump is not removed from office. Allowing foreign interference in our elections would be worse for the country.
34
@Dan Lorey yes really can we move on to at least enjoy Christmas and let them battle it out in 2020. I still don’t see anyone inspirational from the Democrats. We don’t need a host of geriatric candidates
@Dan Lorey What? That makes no sense at all! You consider the Democrates the destructive force because they aren't bowing down to the corrupt Republicans who will do ANYTHING to retain power, even if it destroys our democracy?
1
I'm sorry, but does it even really matter?
Look at the polls. Republicans believe this is a coup. Democrats are not fooled. We are not convincing anyone of anything. Impeachment only convinces each side of their conviction and that the other side is plain evil. There is no way he'll be convicted.
The right will only respond to this with a complete abandonment of democracy.
7
@Dan
The right will respond by democratically re-electing Trump and throwing the coup plotters out of office at the ballot box.
@Dan If the Democrats do their utmost to show the public that Trump has committed impeachable offenses, but he is not convicted in the Senate, that will be as bad as doing nothing to expose his misconduct? Is that what you're trying to convince us of?
I must disagree. While Trump and his acolytes will claim he's innocent no matter what happens, showing the public what's really happening is vital.
2
@Dan the right had ahead done so.
There can be multiple articles of impeachment. Yes, the lead is right, but to assume the others which are not lesser included offences are of no significance is error.
If there is only a single charge, it will come up and be dismissed by the Majority Leader on a vote without discussion. Yes, focus the discussion here first, but then send additional impeachment articles based on Obstruction of Justice, which Meuller said was indictable. Another one for the Emoluments clause violations. Both of these were done with the same selfish intent. Add in obstruction of Congress by ordering his White House minions to not appear or give testimony. This too, should be an article that should be debated publicly in the Senate trial.
Don't let him off with a single charge.
30
@Johnny Comelately I do agree, through all his acts against him & hope someone on the other side wakes up. Too much is at stake.
10
If after all we know about Donald Trump and his administration including the non stop "alternative facts", the gutting of the EPA, the lying about climate change, the declaration of war against immigrants etc. ; If after all of the indictments, confessions, convictions and testimony of Trump associates, appointees and co conspirators; If after all of the witnesses who came before the House Intelligence Committee and if after wading a war on the Constitution and the separation of powers articulated in it; If after all of that, the 2020 election is on the American people. If, "We the People" re-elect Donald Trump ( and Mitch McConnell, Devin Nunes, Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows, etal.) then we have only ourselves to blame for what follows.
38
@Elliott Jacobson Well said. As the saying goes, "Elect a con man, expect a con job."
The Democrats didn't move to impeach Trump because Nancy Pelosi wasn't ready to go ahead with it. After she heard about the Ukraine incident with the withheld aid she decided that Trump had crossed the line and impeachment was the best way to proceed.
There are no good and easy answers to what Trump is doing to America. There are also no good or easy answers to what the GOP, courtesy of its senior leaders, is allowing Trump to do. This is why the House opened up impeachment proceedings. The GOP refuses to rein Trump in or to be even slightly critical of him. Mitch McConnell has tied his fate to Trump's. He, Trump, Pence, and the entire administration ought to be impeached. There is no precedent for this sort of criminal behavior.
What the Democrats are doing is not overturning the 2016 election. They are calling to account a president who has violated his oath office, abused his power, and who has been disrespectful to the country from day one of his presidency. It's not a pretty process but it was put there for just this sort of thing.
98
@hen3ry
Excellent and accurate post. Aim for the bullseye achieved. Thank you.
24
@hen3ry: You could not be more right! But the deceitful republicans scream at the American people: "The Democrats are trying to overturn an election! The Democrats are putting party before country!" (This last statement was made by kevin mccarthy the other day; this is what republicans do: If they do something wrong, they simply turn it around and say the Democrats are doing it!) This "president" has violated his oath of office, abused his power, and he daily lies, insults, and attempts to intimidate; he is a life-long con artist and criminal, and a vile human being, who cares only for himself, and he uses whomever he can to facilitate his agenda of greed, hatred/racism, and revenge. He deserves not only to be impeached, but removed, and imprisoned. He has committed treason with his love of putin, and his doing of putin's bidding. All the horrible things trump has done are not just horrible, but they are against our laws, and they violate our Constitution. Along with Russia, he corrupted our last election, and he put into motion his plans to corrupt the one in 2020 as well! Something has to be done about someone who thinks that he can get away with committing all these heinous and illegal acts...and something has to also be done about the people who are aiding and abetting him. It doesn't help that our so-called Attorney General is as corrupt as our so-called president.
2
@hen3ry someone seems to have been reading too much left wing media. I’m not affiliated with either party and have only ever voted for one president (Obama) and this whole thing is just a circus. Impeaching a president because he asks an ally to investigate why the ex VPs son got 50k a month for being the VPs son... this is worthy of wasting our time for the last 4 months? Complete joke, if Democrats had any sense they would have got some business done in Congress and run a normal likable candidate. I bet many of us would be happy to vote for such a person to get 4 yrs of sanity. But seems something so simple is too hard you all just sound just as crazy as trump going after these stupid thing.
The House needs to enforce its own legal subpoenas by beefing up the Sargent at Arms with a squad of officers that can round up those that refuse the power of subpoena. The Republicans will know it’s serious when they see enforcement coming to a theater near them. If they refuse to testify, send in the sheriffs.
66
@RjW: This is exactly what should be done! If you or I violated a subpoena, do you think we would still be walking around? No! We'd be sitting in jail until we complied with the law. How dare they allow these criminals to simply go on with their lives, without having to answer for violating the laws of this land, as the rest of us would have to! This is an outrage! This is why the rest of the good old boys can sit in an impeachment hearing, and smirk, and intimidate, and yell, and insult...because they know that the law (for them) has no teeth. These are entitled, elitist, privileged characters. They have been shown by the law that the law does not apply to them, so they can behave in whatever way they so desire. So a bunch of them just ignore subpoenas, and spit on the law, and the other ones act like raving, lying lunatics when confronted with the truth, and they also spit on the law. It just makes one so proud to be an American, doesn't it?
2
We certainly are having to think about what is happening and proceed with a very clear eye.
The right wing has been scheming to game the system for decades in order to remove themselves from any responsibilities as officials elected by their constituents nationally.
Why not impeach the entire Senate for contempt? ...and the president?
Funny how AI can't even drive a car yet, much less digest our constitution, the sum total of actions by our three governmental bodies in a vast context of history; or think outside the box, AI is valuable only as a tool.
This comes to my mind apropos of former types of divisions in the 2 houses of our Legislative branch throughout US history. But the congress and the senate are bodies politic, and this does not mean political, folks; it means our representatives, representatives of the people.: the body politic. Lying to the people is a breach of public trust and we have a mass breach of trust and process, all of which is impeachable.
AI can game chess moves and out man oeuvre humans only because there are limited possibilities. But AI cannot think because it is relative to input.
4
@Julie just read this! Who sounds more crazy now, trump or democrat supporters? Seems to me as an independent you all don’t have any common sense to stand on either...
From the beginning of his presidency up to now, Trump has maintained control by keeping us in a constant state of fear and chaos. How does he do this? By doing what no decent person would ever do. It's a display of power and one that puts us (we're primates, after all) on the defensive. He mocks the disabled, the old, war heroes. He doesn't even bother trying to whistle for dogs to hear - he just comes right out and says it and then pretends like he never did. We can't fathom a man who would intimidate a witness on TWITTER. We can't fathom a twitter troll. But he's gotten the better of us. We have lost our focus and lost our way, like chickens in a henhouse that can't do anything about the wolf. Getting rid of Al Franken was the first real sign that something was definitely very wrong on our side. We gave in to mass hysteria and we lost a powerful voice, a celebrity voice, who could have combatted some of this on an equal playing field. Trump won't do what we tell him to do and that shows the American people that he doesn't have to, and they don't have to either. The best thing democrats can do is take a deep breath and vote him out. Save the country and save the world. Put the revolution on hold and go with Biden.
31
Response to your question: The "Democrats didn't move to impeach Mr. Trump when the report was delivered back in March" because they were using their enhanced Congressional powers to continue the investigation as recommended by Mueller, especially given that Mueller's conspiracy investigation had not been able to be concluded due to obstruction. The Mueller Report stated Mueller was unable to obtain sufficient evidence to reach a conclusion with respect to the conspiracy portion of the investigation as a result of Trump and his associates' material interference with the investigation. The report also indicated that Congress was the one with the role to investigate both conspiracy and obstruction further. Various committees have been doing exactly that, and while they were doing so, Trump engaged in yet additional misconduct, this time regarding Ukraine and the 2020 election.
57
@Eccl3
I am just ashamed that the president of the United States is being ridiculed by the leaders of other countries. Has this happened before? I'm ridiculing this person who was elected myself. I can't believe that this man is leading the country where I spent so much time and money to become who I am right now. I am so embarrassed by him that I don't want to travel internationally anymore. What a shame! He's just an embarrassment!
This probably isn't going to happen, but it is a new impeachment strategy that is becoming increasingly popular among the chattering classes.
The argument runs as follows:
(1) It is certain that the Senate will not convict President Trump, no matter how compelling or concise the case, because Republican Senators are more concerned about retaining their political position than doing what is right for the country.
(2) Impeachment will be a blot on Trump's reputation, such as it is, but the electorate will have forgotten much by the time November 2020 rolls around. As a result, Trump could win, and we will have four years of even worse misrule than in Trump's first term.
(3) So, why not keep impeachment active? Vote on the articles we have now, but do not notify the Senate, thus freezing the process one step away from a Senate trial.
(4) Subpoena all recalcitrant witnesses, take their cases to the Supreme Court. Let the court tell us whether it is fair or partisan.
(5) Open new investigations or continue old ones, adding impeachment articles as they are ready, including on Trump's tax fraud, his financial relationships with Russia, emoluments, obstruction of the Mueller probe, etc.
(6) If Trump loses in 2020, impeachment articles can be applied as evidence in normal court indictments of Trump, since there is no double jeopardy. If Trump wins, go full bore on impeachment in the second term, perhaps with a Democratic majority in the Senate.
102
@James good comment. I am of the opinion that's if the house should vote for impeachment, is there any rule that makes it illegal for them to decline to put it to the senate? It may not be nice, but if Trump can withhold his troops from the house hearings and others from appearing at all,having been subpoened,why must the house chance these law breakers with the delicate business of a trial?
20
@James
Excellent post. My only comment is on #4: God help us if the conservative majority in the Supreme Court upholds Trump and Republican lawlessness.
1
@James
The Republican Senate is more inclined to cater to the base of the republican base, not Trump based, but biased based, of white, so called Christian, wealthy white men who are afraid that they are losing their majority. It's just a bunch of so called christian white men, who have been wrecking havoc on the rest of us for the longest term and want to continue to do so.
What I don't understand is why? Why do these folks continue to believe the lies?
2
The key problem with Trump is that he has never led a public company. As sole owner, he has never been accountable to anyone except, perhaps, his heirs. He behaves as though he were elected to act as sole owner of the Federal Government. A truly calamitous situation for which the cynical political calculations of the Republican Party will be remembered in infamy. All that the Democratic Party needs to do now is grab possession of the the center-right demographic, leaving the Trumpian husk of the old GOP marginalized in perpetuity. Which would be a good riddance.
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@Paul
There is just one problem with your plan: it is the center right that allowed this to happen in the first place.
6
@Paul great analysis yet as we all know the Democrats aren’t going to do that as their party morphs into the socialist international tax everything party
The House should lay out all evidence they have so far, then pause. Wait to hear from Bolton, Pompeo, etc before they send articles of impeachment to the Senate.
The public needs to hear from these men, and consider why Trump is muzzling them. Let the Supreme Court rule expeditiously to force their testimony. The sword of Damocles of impeachment will hang over Trump, and the Democrats can beat on Republican's protection of him.
38
@Steve Wondering why you are certain an SCOTUS decision will favor the Democrats? Many would disagree, believing that the 5 conservatives (if I can still use that term properly) would refuse to do so.
3
@Steve
"The public needs to hear from these men, and consider..."
Bolton, Pompeo, Nunes, McGahn, Mulvaney, Rudy, Barr, et al...Trump isn't muzzling them, the Republican party clique is.
Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer. -Muhammad Ali
It seems Trump neither knows the constitution nor does he care. The enslaved Republicans care more about their 2020 election than the country. Republicans and Trump are heavily relying ultimately on the Supreme Court who will support Trump no matter what. So far Trump and the Republicans have not faced any consequences for breaking and not following our laws.
2020 elections will determine what rout America wants to take...... to remain a strong democratic nation with strong economy or become a nation like Russia, a world power with hollow economy and a mob rule.
29
If there were anything which is beyond challenge, stick handling, guessing or other excuses the President has trumped up, it must be the impact of the global climate crisis on the future of the globe and its inhabitants.
Unless Trump can table his credentials to prove he is capable of and is qualified to counter the congruent wisdom and experience of thousands of science experts, he must be ignorant of the impact of his decisions, or he knows what he is doing and is exceeding his powers in the US and endangering millions of others beyond his borders, regardless.
Such egregious behaviour falls squarely on his shoulders either way, and in my view, is yet another item which should be considered in his impeachment, in this case because to countenance these decisions risks incredible consequences already beginning.
16
Help me understand why the House Intelligence Committee’s did not include on their witness list, Mr. Giuliani, were Mr. Pence, Mr. Pompeo, Mr. Mulvaney, Rick Perry, Don McGahn and Mr. Bolton. It would certainly help convince Republican Senators and Trump followers who continue to say "he did nothing wrong". Why with something as important as this would an excuse of "being held up in the courts"? For heavens sake , issue and enforce the subpoenas, see what happens, make them show Americans who really thinks "they are above the law. "
22
@bjkf
They could say under oath "he did nothing wrong".
Mr. Giuliani, Mr. Pence, Mr. Pompeo, Mr. Mulvaney, Mr. Perry, Mr. McGahn and Mr. Bolton.
They could confirm or impeach.
"Let the veil of silence fall presently over what happened afterward. Silence, too, can speak out"
-Lech Walesa
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer" -Muhammad Ali
Be honest. Truth to power. To speak truth to power means to demand a moral response to a problem, rather than an expedient, easy or selfish response.
Impeach: call into question the integrity or validity of (a practice).
Similar: challenge, question, call into question, cast doubt on, raise doubts about.
Opposite: confirm
BRITISH: charge with treason or crime against the state.
US: charge (the holder of a public office) with misconduct.
6
We are in an unprecedented time when both the executive branch and the senate are not only breaking their oath to defend our Constitution, but actively subverting it with massive social media ads that use the impeachment to get more money for Trump's re-election campaign. They are masters of misdirection and disinformation.
At the height of the weapons-of-mass-destruction story, Dick Cheney said in a television interview, "We have the power. Reality is what we say it is." Indeed.
In 1948, Eric Blair (aka George Orwell) predicted the importance of computer technology in maintaining an alternative reality. Seventy-one years later, millions of Americans, addicted to social media, embrace the Republican version of reality, even when it hurts them. This is far worse than partisanship.
Of course, the Senate will acquit Trump. If he manages to lose in 2020, we can breathe a little and try to repair the damage. But if he wins, he may use the military against The Resistance and social media to attack protesters as traitors.
Thinking strategically, the Senate is confirming Trump's nominees to the federal courts as fast as they can. They have already replaced over 40% of federal judges, who, together with the SCOTUS, are the "final word."
So, how does this all end?
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@Laurie S.
It ends when we exhibit diligence, responsibility, and persistence. This Administration is doing everything it can to prevent us from exercising those values.
We must not allow our Constitution become meaningless.
26
Ukraine and the 2020 elections, focal points indeed; just don't forget Trump's constant obstruction of justice, which ought to be included. Congress has the inalienable right, and obligation, to hold Trump accountable...via checks and balances written in the constitution.
26
@manfred marcus: You don't get anywhere in life by being negative, and since you are not in the US, and thus unable to gauge the mood of the people,your opinions are difficult to take very seriously.Trump enjoys an amazing degree of economic success, has made us energy independent,and created a sellers job market in which demand for workers exceeds supply. In many cases, job seekers have "l'embarras du choix!"If you get t.v. where you are, you should plug into the sermons of Diamond and Silk on FOX AND FRIENDS which many take as gospel, and who incarnate the optimism that increasing numbers of African Americans have for the Trump presidency! Rasmussen has support for Trump in this community at grosso modo 30 to 35 percent.All these tiresome arguments about checks and balances,Congress having the inalienable right etc, how much of an impact do you think that has on average working class, middle class Americans who have other, more important issues on their mind, like providing for their pets and families?Makes you sound like a high school civics teacher!Suppose I were to go to the deli counter at Publix,where they do a terrific job, order a ham and swiss on rye and say oh by the way Congress has the inalienable right to hold Trump accountable for his actions! What would be the response except one of puzzlement and the sandwich maker would no doubt think to herself, "what a wacko!"
The strongest argument the editorial board makes against including the evidence provided in the Mueller report to justify additional non-Ukranian impeachment articles is overcoming "the obvious question of why, if the Mueller report detailed impeachable offenses, the Democrats didn’t move to impeach Mr. Trump when the report was delivered back in March." Politics inherently provides the oxygen for any impeachment proceeding. Between the report's pre-release misleading summary ambush by Trump's attorney general/defense attorney Barr and Mueller's agonizingly convoluted acknowledgment that he wasn't able to press charges against Trump because he was immune as a sitting president, the political oxygen evaporated back in March.
Whether underscoring THE PATTERN of Trump's obstructions of justice by also citing well documented evidences from the Mueller report provides an oxygen supplement right now is the crucial question. I think it would. I believe one of the barriers to bigger majority support for impeachment among the public is the belief among many that Ukraine by itself is just not a big enough deal. Stressing that Trump is a serial offender could tip the balance.
30
Okay, so bribery is not enough, even when the president puts a hold on moneys passed with bipartisan support and signed into law. (by himself.) And the actions the president took to hold up military aid put our ally fighting our biggest enemy on their soil were undeniably counter to our nation's national security.
Okay, if that's not clearly bribery or treason, then what do you call it when the president blocks subpoenaed documents and forbids witnesses from the executive branch to testify in a House sanctioned (and passed comfortably) Impeachment Inquiry? Obstruction of Congress or Obstruction of Justice is what most lawyers and prosecutors would call it.
Pick your poison Trump, or go for both. You don't really want to be president anyway, if you can't be king.
How is that unprecedented act is not obstruction of Congress?
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There is absolutely grave danger inherent in the President demeaning our way of governing which he does daily because of his ignorance of how our government is supposed to work. We are at risk of losing any semblance of our Democracy and will have descended into little more than a shadow version of what we once were and what the framers intended us to be if we continue on this path We have certainly become morally bankrupt. And this is all because Donald Trump has somehow gotten our economy and job market to boom. That is apparently the litmus test for a great president according to the Republicans. The Republican Congress, in order to appease Trump's base who feel their economic plight has finally been addressed, that they have finally been heard, have left any semblance moral compass at the door of their bank. I am not, in my heart a negative person. I believe in the goodness of my fellow humans. But as far as the United States being a leader and model of democracy, of freedom and justice, that is fading slowly and inexorably unless our elected officials decided that defending our Constitution is more important than the power of one president. As far as the articles of impeachment go -- none of it matters unless all of Congress does their sworn duty to defend the constitution. After all, Mr. Trump is just one small man who history may remember no better than we remember Andrew Johnson.
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@Jo Trafford:All Alexander Harrison sees here are "phrases toutes faites,"cliches, tiresome generalities which mean nothing to the average person who is enjoying a booming economy,pride that we are energy independent, defending our sovereignty and building a wall to keep out indocumentados.Having a green card is a privilege that 1 applies for; it is not an absolute right. Only group that Trump has not recruited to his side are white, liberal school teachers who, judging by their comments, appear incapable of writing originally,relying on any other sources of news besides their Smartphones and left wing cable t.v. channels, and if you mentioned names of great newsmen and women of the past, Westbrook Pegler, Theodore White, Evans and Novak, Alsop brothers,Marguerite Higgins, Martha Gellhorn would give you a puzzled look.
1
@Alexander Harrison you have misunderstood me. I am saying that Republicans must choose either a president who is corrupt beyond understanding or the heart of our Constitution. You must choose between supporting a president who does not comprehend the difference between a monarchy and a democracy or defending our Constitution. You get to believe we can put children in cages or let them suffer on concrete benches with 103 degree fever until they die because a green card is a privilege not a right . You can believe that the economy and jobs are more important than our environment, our quality of education or supporting those who are disadvantaged. You can believe putting America first is better than recognizing our international role in an interdependent world. You can agree with the President that autocrats are more admirable than others.But, really, any Republican could do those things. That you have chosen one who is as inept and ill-equipped as Donald Trump speaks more to an ability to judge character than a policy preference. We will probably never agree on policy. But perhaps we can agree that our Constitution, our Democracy, our Republic is more important than the ego of one man. Or is that, too, a cliche? Just know I am someone who will speak out against corruption for as long as it takes to be sure we do not lose the intent of that dusty old document written 243 years ago. What will you do?
5
@Alexander Harrison I believe Alexander Harrison thinks very well of himself, and that he believes everyone who does not support Trump is intellectually challenged.
* Parts of the economy are booming. But many people are working 2 or 3 jobs to get by, appliances cost more due to tariffs, 40 million people are still on food stamps, farm bankruptcies are up 24% this year, and many small manufacturers face bankruptcy.
* We are not energy independent, and Trump's policies keep us using more fossil fuels than we might.
* Undocumented workers are still coming in; Trump's companies hire them too. And his wall will do little to stop them.
* Where's the better, cheaper health care Trump promised? Where's his infrastructure program?
6
We tend to read the editorial and focus on that. But sometimes the picture is more interesting and this is one of those times.
Surely you noticed the guy in the sunglasses. And that's what the picture is about. You probably know that the guy is Secret Service. You probably did not ponder why he is in the picture. I did, so I'll tell you. The subliminal message is that Trump needs his protection detail just like he needs his immunity claim -- to keep his critics at bay.
5
Trump's view of impeachment is exactly the response that would be expected of a demagogue. Republicans cannot take the impeachment seriously if they want to continue their political careers as Republicans. All reality for Trump's supporters has been effectively sealed off by the right wing media and right wingers using social media. We are now two people, each represented by a major political party, with different perceptions of reality fighting for control of the US. The Democratic Party wants the US to remain a democracy and continue down the path of tolerance and multiculturalism and the Republican Party driven by populism wants to establish an authoritarian white nationalist country where national identify is defined as white Christian. What it means to be an American is now up for grabs.
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@Bob
You rightly point out "the Republican Party driven by populism wants to establish an authoritarian white nationalist country where national identify is defined as white Christian."
Correct. The irony is that Jesus being brown, being Palestinian and in His extolling of the Good Samaritan meme, would Himself be disqualified from acceptance by the Christian-ist Evangelicals.
1
OK, Boomer.
Autocracies, monarchies, dictatorships and oligarchies have a linear, black and white nature. Democracy is a novel concept because it pushes the populace outside of that box. This requires some imagination and abstract thought. Much harder on the public consciousness are the shades of grey and the abstract value of personal freedom and self-determination. The Founding Fathers were as much philosophers as leaders.
A peasant actually prefers feudalism, as it is a thoughtless daddy state. Prior to the internet and right wing radio, the learned kept the focus on the prize of democracy, whereas the hoi polloi did not care. Nowadays, the ignorant conduct their own research via the Google and they supplant the more academic and philosophical nature of political progression.
The result has been a devolution to our tribal, chieftain roots. This affront to Congress is merely a symptom of that very unfortunate process.
9
It seems to me that the Democrats are making a major tactical blunder. By rushing the impeachment vote they will lose control of the narrative to the Republican Senate and we'll never hear from Bolton, Mulvaney and Pompeo as the Senate deep-sixes the facts in the Ukraine matter. If they delay the vote until the court decides whether those individuals must comply with the subpoena, they hold on to the narrative and in all likelihood, they will be forced to testify. That first hand knowledge might be enough to convince the public. Turning the impeachment probe over to the Senate now will just be an exercise in futility and allow Trump's obfuscation to win the day when it's clear what in fact happened.
15
@Michael Bateman
The flipside of the Democrats taking their time is that, with the impending election, by the time the articles are voted on, the GOP will be arguing that the election should decide whether Trump remains in office. That's a false flag argument. Impeach has NOTHING to do with election. If the framers of the Constitution wanted the electorate to decide on matters of executive abuse of power, that would've been reflected in the Constitution.
8
@Michael
The electorate is reflected in the constitution. They do the electing their representatives. The fact that this electing by the people of our representatives has been heisted or subverted by monied interests and manipulation is a serious hazard we must vigorously reject . along with president trump.
Otherwise I agree with the dilemmas you make note of.
1
@Michael Bateman have you been reading the articles lately? Trump has been litigating settled law--think about that for a minute or two. BTW, Trump's name is on close to 4000 lawsuits either settled or still pending in court--let that sink in too.
Trump will continue to litigate until the cows die of old age. This is his only tactic and it could work if democrats took your plan to heart.
From this article:
"To justify including articles related to the Mueller inquiry, Democrats need to overcome a couple of obstacles."
What obstacles?
This administration has been obstructing lawful investigations into their possible wrong continually since the questions surrounding the Trump campaign's possible cooperation with Russia in the 2016 election surfaced.
It is one ongoing pattern of unlawful behavior.
Trump's and his peeps actively worked to obstruct Mueller's investigation.
That investigation revealed that the full story of an alleged conspiracy between the trump campaign and the Russians was unknown because of the president himself and numerous subordinates lying, taking the fifth (obstructing) as well as missing and destroyed evidence and other factors.
Once this became known with the release of the report, congress had their work cut out for them - more investigating was clearly required. However, trump obstructed these investigations as well by refusing to provide related witnesses and evidence pertinent to getting to the bottom of this important matter.
And how, with the release of the whistle blower compliant and now infamous phone call, congress is impeaching the president.
In response, Trump publicly stated that he will not cooperate with any requests from congress for evidence etc regarding impeachment.
This president thinks he is above the law.
His behavior cannot be allow to stand.
Impeachment must include several counts of obstruction for all of this.
29
I thought we had a Constitution. Checks and balances. Including oversight and impeachment. No inviting or accepting foreign gifts nor assistance with elections. Defending the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Seeing that laws are faithfully executed.
But not anymore. Now we have tyranny and chaos. To not impeach and to not remove him is leave the country in shambles.
49
For too many years Congress has ceded power to the Executive Branch. The Country was not designed for any one of the three branches to have power over the other. If they fail to do the right thing in this instance, we lose as a people.
The Republicans in Congress need to think long and hard about the power of checks and balances as they stand today. Every last one of them realizes what happened here, most have kept their mouths shut or spouted the various iterations of the White House explanation. The question is do they have the integrity to claw their power back? The re-election of any member of the House, or Senate of either party should not figure into their decision. After this "Ukrainian Affair", not to mention other incidents, the integrity of our form of government depends upon the removal of the President from office and in fact, it is the patriotic thing to do.
29
Truly, our nation as we know it will not endure another decade of extreme partisanship like this. We are strolling toward a precipice.
14
@Mford It's already over. The nation is not what it once was. I imagine it will never be again.
@Mford
We will not stroll but run toward the precipice in the next decade and go beyond it. Where that leads I do not know, but we are too divided, racist, greedy, and selfish to go anywhere else.
The president doesn't have tp defend himself; the House has the right to impeach, the Senate has a duty to conduct a trial, the president is only required to abide by the Senate's decision. What has the Democrats so upset about Mr. Trump's refusal to mount a defense is that it shows he won't play along with them. It means that he knows, as we all do, that this is a political proceeding and the Democrats hope to make as much political capital of it as they can; why should Mr. Trump help them?
12
@Ronald B. Duke The Constitution says he must, politics or not. That is the point of the piece. If you don't agree that the Constitution requires him to comply then you're ignoring the fundamental basis (and the need for) the impeachment process.
25
@Ronald B. Duke -- First of all, there is no 5th Amendment or equivalent right not to testify in impeachment proceedings of which I am aware. Please disabuse me of my understanding if you think otherwise. I think if subpoenaed to testify and produce documents, Trump and his cohort could be compelled to do so subject only to legally recognized privileges or objections.
Second, you seem to assume that Trump's cooperation would help the Democrats' case for impeachment. What that implies is an acknowledgement by you that Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct. Perhaps you could enlighten us why you think he should remain in office if that is the case. Are you just another Republican who puts party over country?
22
@Ronald B. Duke
It is not that he would be helping them, he would be executing the duties of his office.
2
Thank you for pointing out why removal from office is URGENT and censure isn’t nearly enough: Trump solicited interference in our 2016 election and is openly repeating this for 2020. The integrity of our elections and therefore our democracy (corrupted by money as it is) is at stake. Congress must not fail its obligation to serve as a check on executive authority.
31
Would it be possible to continue the investigation until mid 2020, so that the voters are fully aware of his misdeeds then "run out of time" using the McConnell game of "too close to election time" for the good of the country?
After all, DJT has been given the opportunity to present his case to the House and refused to do so and prevented others from testifying.
18
Like a scout a president should be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
9
Failure to include the obstruction findings in Mueller's report would be a blunder of major proportions by Democrats. Pelosi erred by not immediately starting impeachment proceedings in March, but the delay is minor in the scheme of things and not unreasonable for legal matters. The only concern is optics, and that really doesn't justify allowing Trump's obstruction to go unpunished. This is a question of constitutional proportions, not PR or election year politics. The editorial board is completely off base here.
8
@RunDog
I agree because they are neglecting to mention all of the fall out that Barr and Trump orchestrated before Mueller’s report came out to muddy the public’s understanding. What short memories we have!
7
@RunDog, House Democrats appearing to covering the rear will certainly persuade Senate Republicans, I’m sure. Maybe one or two will feel sorry enough for them to change their minds out of pity.
It’s a real problem when people who swore to protect and defend the country and Constitution obviously were not telling the truth.
Republicans are only interested in protecting Trump, who also refuses to live up to his oath, and refuses to even recognize his responsibility to the rule of law.
Trump’s declaration that “I can do anything that I want” mocks the rule of law.
The House of Representatives has a duty of oversight of the executive branch.
Trump has thoroughly refused any cooperation with Congress.
The obstruction of Congress is impeachable on its own.
36
The editorial board is correct, BUT it is extremely important that all incidents and aspects of Donald Trump's treason be investigated. American history will demand this AND it is essential so that laws can be passed so that no person like Donald Trump can ever become president again.
25
While the Ukraine matter is the strongest and clearest case, it is the continuation of a pattern of corruption that existed during the Mueller obstruction period as well. Therefore, the addition of the Mueller obstruction conduct to the articles of impeachment provides a context for the Ukraine obstruction and emphasizes the continuing danger presented by the autocrat in the White House and the necessity for his impeachment and removal.
29
Justice was finally served upon Al Capone not for his many other well known crimes, but for the crime most provable by the prosecution beyond a shadow of doubt, tax evasion.
The count most likely to result in the conviction of tRump is the path that Congress should choose to pursue, as it mulls which of so many potentially applicable Articles of Impeachment to charge this nefarious President with.
11
Does anything warrant the removal of a monarch? If you agree that the monarch is just a figurehead, that stands as a placeholder for all of the imaginable human social and cultural structures, then the answer is no. But if you believe the monarch performs some other function or functions other than figurehead, then the answer is yes. That’s the great divide in the USA Today.
2
Much as I detest Trump, I'm troubled by this impeachment. "Foreign interference" is a stretch when an American is clearly the protagonist, and the foreigners mere pawns. "Acting against national interest" is as ill-defined as "maladministration", which the Founders explicitly refused to make impeachable. "Bribery" requires getting something not even _arguably_ in the national interest; investigations of presidential candidates arguably are. _Announcements_ of investigations are not, per Department of Justice guidelines; but these are just guidelines. And Trump in the call with Zelensky doesn't seek announcements; Giuliani sought them, according to Gordon. So where can we draw a principled line that clearly separates Trump's acts from arguably legitimate categories of presidential acts?
12
@Ilya Shlyakhter We could start with his lie about the June 2016 meeting in Trump Tower that was called because the Trump campaign was offered "dirt" on Hillary Clinton by the Russians.
We could bring in the fact that Jared Kushner sought an encrypted back channel to Moscow, and the fact that some 25 White House personnel, including Kushner, were given top-level clearances against professional advice, and the fact that Trump disclosed classified information to Russian diplomats, and the fact that he met several times with Putin without making any record of what went on, and the fact that he took Putin's word over that of his own intelligence agencies.
We could bring in Trump's firing of James Comey and the fact that he admitted the firing was to end Comey's investigation of possible collusion.
We could add Trump's attempt to fire Robert Mueller. True, Robert Mueller was never fired. But just as with the announcement from President Zelensky, which also never happened, it is Trump having sought these outcomes that is the misconduct.
And there's a whole lot more.
5
@Ilya Shlyakhter -- Bribery, as understood by the framers of the Constitution, included the soliciting, as well as the giving or receiving, of something of value in exchange for performance of one's official duties. Trump had an official duty tp disburse the monies Congress had allocated to Ukraine for military assistance; he then tried to solicit something of personal value to him (the "favor" of digging up dirt on Joe Biden) by conditioning the disbursement of those already authorized monies on Ukraine doing that "favor" for him. This is the very essence of what the framers had in mind as an impeachable offense, and it fits squarely within the meaning of "high crimes and misdemeanors."
"High crimes and misdemeanors" was, to the framers, a legal term of art with a 400-year history, dating back to the impeachment of the Earl of Sussex in 1388. It was NOT a reference to federal statutory definitions of any crime, including bribery, because those federal statujtes did not yet exist (nor were the envisioned bu tje framers_ (The federal bribery statute was not promulgated until 1962!)
Sorry, but there is no ambiguity here.
2
@Ilya Shlyakhter
Well, obstruction of lawfully requested (subpoena) testimony by witnesses, failure to comply with legal requests for records, and illegally blocking of Congressional appropriated funds for Ukraine far outweigh the Ukrainian political extortion part of the problem. Much worse.
Don't you agree?
1
Tom Steyer is correct on at least one point, the US needs term limits in congress and even on the Supreme Court. When republicans' only concern is the next primary, Trump wins.
31