But your Trump can even mess this up. 3.5% unemployment. Something to cheer but no not good enough?
And bye the way, Trump economic math equals Hollywood bean counters math. Ya, the Actors will see the money eventually.
And bang ! just like that ,all those jobs created will disappear next month after the holidays are over
15
Thank you, President Trump.
13
No Democrat EVER has done for workers' family finances that this amazing American President has.
We now go to candidate Bill Clinton to give us the importance of economic conditions in American presidential elections.
'It's the economy, stupid.'
So Trump has that, and the Democrats have a results-free three years of hatred promotion just because they got their precious feelings hurt.
I can read the last page of this story already.
18
Let's see the jobs picture in October 2020...
3
Oh please, 60% of Americans cannot afford a 1,000$ emergency (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-americans-dont-have-the-savings-to-cover-a-1000-emergency.html) so how is this supposed "strong" economy working out? Don't fall for the slogans, look at the reality. The "working poor" are still with low wages from the 80s.
18
As a critic of TRUMP I can still give credit when it is due.
14
Hello...of the 57,000 manufacturing jobs, 41,000 were GM workers going back to work...
8
The fantasy described in this article is as much a result of the Trump Administration’s strong arming of big employers and UI data centers as it is an outcome of my 1st Law of Employer Data, i.e., garbage in = garbage out. Everybody knows the UI data used to validate new hires and earnings is a joke; it’s completely not reliable, not satisfiable, mashed-up by employers until unrepeatable, and laughed at by scores of long time experts in the conditions necessary for accurate reporting of hires and earnings, at all. I’ve been in this data and algorithmic formula enterprise in America for 30 years, and I’ve never seen it this bad. Just like integrity folks should never work for Trump lest their reputations suffer, so such people should bracket the Administration’s report of hiring/wages outcomes. It’s bogus and cannot come close to repeatable even if computed within .00002 milliseconds of the final run for this present report.
2
I've worked for the same company for 18 years. I make a great living. Once I stopped changing jobs every 18 months, I began to reap the benefits of loyalty.
5
Sad but true, I do not believe much that comes from this Trump administration, so of course in the back of my mind I am thinking that they are fiddling with the numbers as we head toward 2020.
4
Me neither. I figure they’re right, but who can trust these so-and-sos? It’s their combo of frantic lying and franticer accusations of lying that makes me wonder.
2
On October 31, the House passed a resolution formalizing an impeachment inquiry into Donald John Trump. That inquiry continued through November. Who gets to claim credit for this (November surprise) jump???
Makes a nice meme, don't you think?
1
Who is going to vote for a Democrat with those numbers?
12
Trump claims credit. Some credit Obama. Both are short-sighted. This goes back to Grover Cleveland.
3
Not often mentioned is the current economy being fueled by Trump's massive corporate tax cuts and scaling back or elimination of necessary environmental regulations vital to our health and well-being.
7
Something tells me none of the commenters here griping about the economy not being good will give up their 401k gains over the past 3 years.
I thought not.
12
The wealth divide is getting greater and greater, income inequality is increasing, so the benefits of more people working are erased. It just means that more people are wage slaves. What America needs is a dramatic equalization of wealth and income. The kid wit da Brooklyn accent will deliver that!
1
When you threaten the Chairman of the Fed Reserve with firing if he raises interest rates this is what you get despite the fact that failure to raise interest rates may be bad for the economy.
1
Unemployment is low, but so is inflation. According to mainstream economics, that shouldn't be possible.
But it is happening, for many reasons:
1) pay is still low, i.e. below pre-crisis levels.
2) per hours worked, the USA has more unemployment that the pre-crisis levels.
3) those lower pay, lower hours new jobs are not promoting the development of the productive forces, i.e. labor productivity is not rising. This also means there is no Fourth Industrial Revolution going on.
4) the percentage of economically active population is lowering, i.e. the proportion of working-capable adults in America that has just given up searching for jobs has risen in relation to the total population.
5) when they have money to spare, households are opting for saving it instead of spending it outright.
6) interest rates for household credit is high by American historical standards.
3
Goosing an economy with free money doesn't mean it's in good shape. The overshoot will probably be painful.
3
It's amazing how many people in the comments section can spin good economic news as bad news.
If you look at headcounts of companies, you can find that Google hired almost 20,000 people in the last year (many of these are engineering jobs that pay six figures) and a little searching around shows companies like Microsoft and Apple added around 10,000 employees each as well.
11
Meaningless. If you aren't living in the right place, don't have the right credentials or lack the perfect experience you won't get the job. Employers continue to do the same things they've done for years only now, instead of going with the best candidate they continue to search for months. Having 80% of the necessary skills isn't enough for them. Then, to add insult to injury, they don't want to pay for the skills or experience they're asking for.
Job descriptions are ridiculous. You must be enthusiastic, a team player, a hard worker, know how to work independently, be a leader, be a follower, be brilliant, innovative, be able to wave a magic wand and make it all work. I don't know how it is in other countries but in America most employers don't seem to know what they want or what is out there. There are plenty of hard working experienced people in need of a job. Yes, we might be older and have grey hair and wrinkles. We might not be in the best physical shape or wear the most modern clothing. But we know how to work.
We've changed careers, trained others, written up instructions, learned patience, etc. Offer us a decent salary, treat us like human beings, and maybe we'll be a valuable part of your team. Don't take a chance and you'll never know. But you will be contributing to our future poverty as we become unable to work at anything and we have no savings because we couldn't find a decent job.
9
@hen3ry Why did you leave your last job?
2
Does data analysis indicate how many jobs the average low income individual must work to pay rent and feed and clothe their families? Please note that when 2 to 3 part time jobs are held there is likely no health insurance or other sorely needed benefits. Job stats need to be adjusted as one job does not IMHO equal one worker.
8
The past 2 years I've been trying to find a better job and for some reason I can't find anything that pays equivalent to my position I'm college educated and I work I'n the financial field as a tech ...All I see is the same job listings on indeed from a year ago Who is hiring ? And why am I not getting hits like I was 5years ago ?
4
Maybe you need to be willing to relocate. Your dream, high paying Executive position, might be in Iowa, Minnesota, or even New York.
4
GM workers return to work. When Obama hit +/- 240,000, the MSM always claimed "not good enough." Trump is still riding Obama's wave. And current wage gains are due to Democrats' minimum wage increases.
14
@Beth
The same economic performance under Obama was deemed weak or sluggish by the mainstream media. Similar, even weaker, numbers under Trump are considered to be "booming."
7
Are these data real? It would be just like Trump, who accused the Obama Administration of falsifying employment data, to do exactly that himself. Psychologists call this "projection".
4
I wonder how many commentators would complain that the data was too good if Hillary Clinton were President. But I know that there are a lot of jobs being advertised at over $20 an hour, no experience needed. If you have experience, you may start at $75,000 a year with full benefits. Some employers are even hiring persons with criminal records for felonies.
2
For all the commenters here carrying on about how these new jobs are low in quality and low in pay, consider please that in a sub-4% unemployment economy most well-qualified workers have jobs. The 4% (or 3.5%) unemployed are generally not holding out for jobs in investment banking, law, or medicine. So it's quite reasonable that the current job creation is concentrated in the low-skill areas, since that's where the bulk of the unemployed would naturally reside.
6
Actually, they could. What is unemployment among 55-65 group?
7
Wage increase of 7 cents per hour = $12 a month Whoopee! Better than nothing but not life altering. How many of those jobs are temporary for fulfillment centers and department stores? As for shoppers spending, just before our little depression when the housing market blew up, consumer spending was sky high.....
7
@James T ONeill - - - The key here is a general lack of inflation outside of manufactured goods. Remember how little food prices went up between last Thanksgiving and a week ago?
No Dem has done that in generations.
This is what happens when you elect someone from the business sector to the White House instead of either a faculty lounge progressive dreamer or a creepy-crawly from the D.C. culture of corruption.
6
Yes, $12 ... in a world of $16 hamburgers, you’re still ordering sliders off the appetizer menu ... who’s kidding who here ?
5
“Business sector.”
Failed steak salesman. Casino tout. Reality TV performer.
Whatever, right?
6
It’s holiday time and so more people are working. This will go away after Christmas.
Trump tariff actions are most likely done for select oligarchs, certainly not for the good of the American people. The greed of oligarchs, both foreign and domestic, whom Trump represents are leading this country to a big fall. Those who make snide remarks at such pronouncements do not read. History repeats itself. Trumpism is the new Mellonism.
8
@Jan Warfield As so many others have pointed out, these numbers are seasonally adjusted. And they are very good numbers too.
5
The article documents and discusses that, okay? Look...I don’t for the life of me see what’s “leftist,” or “progressive,” about refusing to look at facts, and then ranting.
Let the Trumpists do that. They’re way more talented in the field.
2
But in 2016, don told us that the good numbers were "fake news."
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/trump--jobs-report-is-90--fiction-599323203679
Why are we to believe them now?
16
If I may...……...I hear most people in the US need more than one job to make ends meet...…...so this is good news !!
3
Oh really? No, I just don't believe it.
As someone said "it's the business cycle stupid"
We all know there's supply and demand, and that these folks probably have but a temporary job until Christmas and then BANG!
3
A bunch of unhappy readers commenting here.
The news is good. People have work this holiday season.
8
The GOP tax scam has more legs than EXPECTED, it appears. The bill will come due eventually.
1
Over two thirds of taxpayers are paying less taxes because of the tax law. However, rich taxpayers are complaining because they are limited to $10,000 a year in federal tax deductions for state and local taxes paid. Democrats in Congress are hard at work drafting bills to provide unlimited tax deductions for the rich contributors to their political campaigns.
2
@John Bowman
I guess on your side of the looking glass, where up is down, the Democratic Party is the one that wants to cut taxes. Do they want to take away people’s health care, destroy the environment and increase the cost of education too?
3
@John Bowman
That is so upside down. It's jaw-dropping. The preponderance of the benefit from Trump's fiscally reckless tax cut went to the richest Americans, as designed (much of the benefit went to those who own U.S. stocks, 2/3rds of which are foreigners). The GOP is the party of the selfish rich. Democrats want to amend the Constitution to reverse the egregious Citizens United decision, which opened the floodgates to money in politics. Guess who wants to ensure that there is a continuous flow of dark money in politics.
4
There is no reason for anyone to believe any figures put forth by this administration that lies and puts out false facts and news. You'd have to ask where did these jobs come from?
6
@Dr. B
Uh, from companies hiring perhaps? \
But, but...the deficit! Liberals have amnesia about the $10 trillion Obama borrowed from the Treasury and the $4 trillion the Fed offered from it's balance sheet. Wake me up when Trump gets anywhere close. Democrats can keep trying to convince us that jobs and wage growth are bad. Maybe they will convince enough Americans to throw it down the drain for Hillary's hurt feelings. In the meantime, wage growth and job growth is much broader than during the Obama Walmart job recovery, where wages stagnated and income inequality expanded. Trump's boom is broad-based. Winning!
10
It’s hard recalling stuff that didn’t happen, I find. And apparently it’s hard for some to notice what did...like Trump more than doubling the annual deficit, like Dubya handing President Obama a giant stinking economic blivet plus an unbudgetted war in Iraq that we were spozed to have wrapped up in six months, stuff like that.
I canback up my claims. Can you back up yours?
6
@TL
The Trump boom is nonexistent, unless you also believe in the Obama boom. Obama presided over a huge decrease in deficits; Trump has presided over a large increase. Do you understand the difference?
During the campaign Trump disparaged sub-3% economic growth under Obama. But Trump hasn't beaten 3% either. If sub-3% growth was terrible under Obama, it is terrible under Trump. Also, the pace of job creation in Trump's first 34 months is much slower than the pace in Obama's last 34 months.
4
Add holiday hiring to the end o the gm strike and the report is not so hot.
4
This was the best jobs report in a decade. Cheer for America not Trump and stop cheering for demise. When you cheer for demise, you
Make Trump
Look smart.
1
As usual, the NYTimes policy is to report the U3 unemployment number, which is an undercount by design. In the same BLS Table A-15 there is U6, which is the best number available because it includes long-term unemployed and discouraged workers. U6 always runs about 2X the U3 number and is currently 7%. Needless to say, administrations in Washington always talk about U3.
4
On average, job gains have been at the same level since January 2011. Some months have been higher (as this one was), some months have been lower (remember May 2019), but these are just statistical fluctuations, and the running average has been the same. If anything, the gains were a little more steady in 2014-15, when the jobless rate was dropping a little faster, but job gains are pretty much "normal" right now.
Bottom line: Trump's presidency, his big tax cut, and his trade wars, have made *no difference* on the job market.
9
Add the jobs that will occur in January for tax services which are seasonal then watch the drop occur May 1. Employment is only part of the equation. Earning a livable wage is quite something else. You can play the numbers any way you want but if you leave the real substantive information out of those numbers it becomes meaningless.
7
We face a cultural dilemma not a political one to glean what is true “progress” in this new America we have wrought. Face it, we now live in a post-American-dream age where data suggests that an increasing majority of sound employees in profitable concerns actually struggle to maintain basic quality of life expectations for themselves and their families while the executive class in their companies ponder vexations like designer kitchens, the purchase of third properties, or bigger motor boats (OK that’s a generalization... but you get it). I’m not saying anyone should limit anyone’s compensation or mandate the over-rewarding of work that doesn’t add comparable value to an enterprise. But at what point do small, medium and large company executives (especially CEOs and mega-investors) ask themselves “how much is truly enough for me to thrive?” as he/she addresses executive pay-rate scales, hourly-pay-stagnation, equitable top-to-bottom profit-sharing and bonus schemes, layoffs, etc. How can we as a community survive if personal greed and hyper-self-protection by business and political leaders wins in the market over an economy where all unique effort, all substantive industry and all consistent diligence in a workplace earns rewards in a reasonable scale to how deeply each of us contributes to company success? Maybe we should all spend time in a classroom, or pew or under a tree by the river thinking on how we can all thrive — in our own realistic and reasonable ways — together
7
Again with the focus on the unemployment rate rather than the wages. When will they get it? The thing is, I'm sure they do get it, but the MSM is directed by their billionaire owners to downplay that "dirty little secret" of no-growth wages adjusted for inflation for decades.
Until the average working person starts sharing in the massive wealth that they've helped to generate, this economic system will remain broken and dysfunctional, delivering wealth to the 1%, and the bill to the 99%.
Sanders and Warren have the right prescription, which is why there is such an increase in negative coverage of them lately. The billionaires are scared, and they control the media, so else do you expect. Luckily, they still can only cast one vote per billionaire.
Wake me when we start announcing double-digit wage growth, not the creation of more menial jobs.
13
The last time there was double digit wage growth there also was double digit inflation.
2
@John Bowman The wages didn't cause inflation.
1
It's holiday season... when merchants, large and small, hire temporary workers to deal with the heavy shopping season.
Most of these reported jobs will vaporize on January 2, 2020.
But Trump will spin this as yet another miracle that only Trump could achieve. In reality he has nothing to do with this.
9
"Full employment = 3+% unemployed"
And people wonder why so many folks resonate with Trump's oxymoron, "fake news." It didn't start with him. He merely tapped into a huge reservoir of meaningless or self-contradictory concepts, such as "full employment" and the "cost" of your cell phone service that adds endless surcharges.
Actually, the way I see it the game was up when those who supported the effects of Roe v. Wade allowed the allegedly "objective" media, such as P.B.S., N.P.R., and the Times to call the anti-abortion movement "right to life."
As to "categories" mentioned in this article, there is a false comparison never accounted for in any of these articles on the economy. You cannot simply compare the percentage of the labor force that is employed now with that in 1969. In 1969, most women were not considered as part of the available work force. Their unpaid labor at home was simply not part of the usual stats.
The related fact, of huge importance, is that in 1969 usually one wage earner was necessary to support a family and now family income is often predicated on two wage earners. That skews not merely the data but how one evaluates progress.
6
Why are we lowering interest rates?
6
Wow, more low paying jobs! Still all the money is at the top and no trickle down that was promised. Low GDP. Recession measures already implemented. Still unreasonable requirements from employers leaving many from gaining good paying jobs. (why does it matter if you've been unemployed for a few months or even a year?) No revenue, more tariff wars. Still volatile stock market with insider trading. Still a handshake and a wink from the occupant to his rich buddies. The real unemployment rate is never mentioned. Layoffs continues laying off thousands yet we keep reading how the unemployment is so low. More deception that's leading people to believe even more lies.
6
Do Trump supporters hold their tiki-torch marches and run people over when they a good jobs report, or when they get a bad one? I honestly forgot which it is.
3
It's great that the US economy is doing well. I don't think anyone can confidently attribute that to Trump's policies (maybe the economy would be even better if Clinton were President). But the only elected incumbent US Presidents to lose an election in the past 100 years are Bush I (economic downturn), Jimmy Carter (economic malaise) and Herbert Hoover (1929 crash.) I may be missing something or someone but when Trump said "the economy is great; I can't be impeached" he was being a political idiot savant. If the economy is still going great in 10 months, he'll be difficult to beat irrespective of whatever further perfidy or nauseating rhetoric he throws out there.
6
Here we go again. More fuel for republicans to express their love for their almighty brilliant King but turn deaf when given the actual facts
2
"America will never see 3% economic growth again" ...Barack Obama 2016
”I take credit for Trump's 4% economic growth" ...Barack Obama 2018
10
@Dr. John
Quote from Business Insider
"As a result, Obama inherited an economy in free-fall. The unemployment rate peaked at 10.2 per cent in October 2009 during the recession and 8.7 million jobs were lost from early 2007 and 2010, according to the Centre for Budget and Policy Priorities. But it started falling steadily in 2011 and that trend continued for the rest of the Obama presidency.
President Trump took office as the economy continued its recovery – and as it underwent a decade-long expansion, the longest in American history."
Read more at https://www.businessinsider.com/9-charts-comparing-trump-economy-to-obama-bush-administrations-2019-9#GalyRu0zdslbJ6pi.99
4
@Jose Pieste The only person wanting credit at all is Trump.
2
Trump has added 6 million jobs while the Democrats have sat in a circle talking impeachment. Are there any Democratic accomplishments in three years?
12
Mitch McConnell sitting on 250 House bills with bi-partisan House support. He won't let it happen.
7
I think I read a while back, when the tariffs first went on the goods, that Trump decided to take them off over the Christmas holiday season or something like that. More money in peoples pockets then the more money they spend, and the more staff employed. What happens when the tariffs go back on again will be interesting to note, and when the Christmas season is over. You also need to look at household debt as the spending could be on credit and not cash in hand.
2
I feel like Paul Krugman is always wrong about the Trump economy. He has to be the biggest doomsayer of the last 3 years I can think of. I’m on his mailing list and he always leads me to believe the sky is falling and the economy is horrible.
Not only are jobs being added but wages are rising.
9
@Jose Pieste So true. Never give up on the American spirit no matter the President's political affiliation.
4
I find journalistic/media coverage of the issue of job reports VERY irresponsible. The payscales of the jobs added matters tremendously, yet this is rarely reported. Income inequality continues to grow, yet we hear nothing of this. Even $15 an hour is not a living wage in most metro areas around the country. We have a health care crisis, an affordable housing crisis, affordable child care crisis, and so on that reflects decades of disinvestment on the part of the Republican power elite. There are huge subpopulations of employed Americans who still can not even come close to making ends meet even when they do spend 12 hours a day on their feet making $14 hour. Yes A job is better than no job at all, but this is America so that's not the point!! You should ALWAYS report stats on income inequality in this country, and whose benefiting the most when you publish quarterly job report stories, lest you play into the hands of the fantasyland grifters in the White House.
6
The question to be asked is, "What kind of jobs?": Uber drivers, wait staff Vs. Managers, financiers. Because the former aren't really serving to provide stable wages or even wages that are guaranteed to be living wages even above the poverty line. We cannot envision holiday jobs, part-time jobs, jobs paying below $15/ hour, and especially the grossly expanded classification of independent contractor jobs as benefitting anyone except those who are politically benefitting from counting higher numbers of meaningless jobs.
3
With Trump in charge, I have come to doubt these numbers. They have been walked down far more than any other president months from now when everyone is focusing on the current number.
5
@terri smith
The employment change for October revised UP from +128,000 to +156,000, and the change for September revised UP from +180,000 to +193,000. On net, employment over these months is 41,000 higher than previously reported.
-Current Employment Statistics Highlights , BLS, December 6, 2019
2
@Dr. John
And the recent benchmarking adjustments, which are not yet reflected in the official data, show a downward adjustment of 501,000 jobs.
3
@Jon
I’m sure you were right it’s all a scam.
The unelected bureaucrats who know the real numbers just sit by quietly when Trump revises their numbers right?
Where are their whistleblowers?
Let's not get too carried away here. After all, growth in total private sector employment over Trump''s first 34 months in office lags Obama's last 34 months in office by over 1 million jobs. The GOP claims that Obama was a disaster ... what does this make Trump?
10
I'll wait for the confirmed figures. In March, the government reported the US added 501,000 *fewer* jobs than was originally estimated for 2018 and early 2019. That was the biggest revision in a decade, and concerned economists about slowing job growth in 2020.
We all know the low unemployment rate doesn't tell the whole story. Brookings Institute reports that a whopping 44% of Americans work in low-wage work (median income: $18,000). And our Government this week cut food stamps for 700,000 people.
Americans have always been extremely hard-working. But these days it's about trying not to slip into poverty -- not climbing your way out of it.
11
There is a false comparison never accounted for in any of these articles on the economy. You cannot simply compare the percentage of the labor force that is employed now with that in 1969. In 1969, most women were not considered as part of the available work force. Their unpaid labor at home was simply not part of the usual stats.
The related fact, of huge importance, is that in 1969 usually one wage earner was necessary to support a family and now family income is often predicated on two wage earners. That skews not merely the data but how one evaluates progress.
5
It’s amazing to witness the number of people trying to rationalize their support for Trump via economic performance.
They should realize job creation is slower in Trump’s first 34 months than Obama’s last 34 by about 1.6 million, budget deficits are up 60% vs. continuation of Obama policy, 2 million more lack health insurance, real wages grew faster 2015-2016 vs. 2017-2018, GDP growth in Trump’s first 11 quarters has averaged the same as Obama’s last 11, and the stock market was up more at this point in Obama’s presidency vs. Trump’s.
Feel free to thank Obama for setting up Trump so well that trade wars with our allies and impeachment haven’t derailed the recovery, with the total number of persons with jobs in record territory since May 2014.
9
While things could be much worse, it's hard to get too excited about these reports when we are still at a point in time where "stable, secure jobs that pay a middle-income wage can be hard to find across a range of skills". We've allowed the bar to be set way too low. This isn't the America we want for our children - or for current workers who are struggling to make ends meet. We can - and must - do better.
9
@DJ
Regular $15/hour minimum wage.
Or more.
Historically low unemployment.
3%+ wage growth.
Trump gave you what you wanted.
You just don’t appreciate it.
3
@Dr. John
Speak for yourself, my friend. Trump did not "give me what I wanted" - and besides, I never mentioned Trump. Your "talking points" are a perfect example of those who have "settled for less" - and that goes for any Administration - Republicans or Democrats. We CAN do better for ALL Americans.
2
@DJ
How did President Trump make your life worse?
I imagine it is fairly easy to get a superficial boost in the economy. Cut corporate taxes, slash environmental and financial regulation. The cost of doing business goes down and, while most of the benefit goes to corporate America, it's not hard to imagine that employment and the stock markets will go up.
The point, however, is that cutting taxes will inevitably require either cutting services or a ballooning deficit. So far it is the latter, but slashing services (health care, etc) can't be far off. So the economy appears strong but it's a grand illusion: there is an implosion on the horizon.
trump cares not a whit that the economy will implode, nor does he care that any idiot can do what he did and make the economy look superficially good.
The problem is that he will brag ad nauseum about how in his great and unmatched wisdom unemployment is low and the stock market is strong, and a large fraction of American voters will believe him. (How many times have we heard "I like my 401k"?)
Meanwhile, the poor get poorer, the US is destroying a world order which it had a large hand in creating, and trump's borderline-fascist trampling all over of democracy, the press, anyone who doesn't fawn all over him, etc puts liberal democracy in peril.
11
It isn't due to any Trump strategy. He just tweets, rants worries, fumes and rages, watches TV and plays golf. What work could he have done: exactly what, where and when? It is a long term trend caused by the careful stewardship of Obama over many years. Long term getting into millions and millions and millions of dollars of debt will damage the economy. The tariff induced loss of markets for farmers will not be easy to get back when the overstimulating sugar hit of the ridiculous tax cuts for Trump's buddies wears off.
7
Does anyone really think that Trump, a six time bankrupt who is functionally illiterate in economic theory, and spends most of his time watching TV, golfing, and going to his campaign rallies has anything to do with even a minor spike in the jobs numbers? Would anyone trust him to fix another 2008 Depression/Recession scenario?
8
I dont trust Trump's Labor Dept and I suspect a lot of people dont.
3
If people can't live off of these jobs than honestly who cares.
5
These monthly “jobs” reports are propaganda manipulated and designed to obscure the reality of American work life, which is:
- wages and salaries have been stagnant or falling for decades
- only minimum poverty wage hourly part-time, seasonal and service jobs are available
- contract and H1B foreign workers are taking most of the jobs
- our jobs have been outsourced, off shored and eliminated or automated
- billionaire GOP has killed unions
- a lot of people have simply stopped looking for work and no longer qualify to apply for unemployment
- ageism is rampant and insidious
- people have lost pensions and benefits
- people get almost no vacation or leave, and are afraid to take what they do get
- CEOs, shareholders are making millions and billions instead of investing in employees
- corporate billionaires stole from taxpayers by taking Trump’s trillion of dollars in tax cuts and keeping it for their personal enrichment
5
And yet the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Ask the French how this worked for them 200 years ago.
3
Thank You Mr Trump!
Keep up the good work!
4
Bringing in 10 million more unskilled workers should improve the situation eh!
2
Anything the trump administration reports, including the jobs report, is probably a hoax.
4
I love the way the NYT and it’s readers downplay these outrageously great job numbers.
Come on now! Even Bloomberg News is ecstatic about the jobs report.
5
@JAG
This was a below average month under Clinton and Obama surpassed this number over 40 times
I don't see any reason to be any more happy about these numbers than I was under a Democratic President, when the debt was much, much lower
2
Job growth was consistently higher under Obama
We're slipping
Time for a reset
4
The fact is most people think the economy is in very good shape. They like seeing lots of help-wanted signs and watching their friends and family get jobs. Black unemployment is the lowest it’s ever been.
Trump is going to ask, “Are you better off now than four years ago?” For most of the voting public the answer is going to be yes. Democrats have got to do better than “Who do you believe? Me or your lying paycheck?”
3
I am anxiously awaiting to see how Mr. Krugman spins this one. I would love to get paid whether I am wrong or right. Fortunately my investment strategy of doing the opposite of his advice has been working quite well. The sad part is watching commenters and Mr. Krugman wishing for a recession and their fellow Americans out of work. Hate does cloud one's judgement.
30
Does this report imply that if the government (as evidenced as by what is going on in DC for the past 3 years) does not function, our economy will continue to improve?
1
Great jobs report? A strong economy? I could make my household economy look real good too, if I could magically spend 25% more than I take in every year.
5
@BG
Yes, cuts need to be made.
The House is responsible for proposing a budget.
And the Democrats are in charge of the House.
And BTW, every single D candidate for President proposed massive increased spending.
3
@Dr. John - All true. It is also true that members of the House were duly empowered by voters to make those proposals.
The policy error comes when the holder of the veto pen, along with the right-handed senate, refuse to participate in crafting revenues to meet those lawful spending commitments.
There is no way that failing to match revenues with lawful spending can be construed as a constructive remedy against contentious budget programs.
1
"The clamor for more workers may make it easier for people who want to turn temporary holiday jobs into permanent ones." - Unlikely since the holiday lines at the retail stores have been much shorter than past years.
1
And I'm just sure that 80% of those jobs pay $45,000 per year, come with good medical insurance, real vacation time, real sick leave, and at least a 401K. /s
7
These are mainly service based jobs. They are also the same types of jobs that folks like Krugman tell us are the future. Glorified burger flippers will never return us to the Post War boom years.
Enjoy the forward thinking way forward.
Why do they count returning strikers as new jobs? They already had those jobs.
8
Because when they weren’t working they were subtracted from the numbers.
3
We are a darn sight better off from the huge chasm left by Bush a decade ago. The recovery has created jobs (16.5 million under Obama), and is now unquestionably the world’s strongest economy. Yet trump asserts he inherited "a mess" and incredibly claims ownership for the whole recovery, including the low unemployment rate. In truth he's not only been blithely riding the success coattails of his predecessor, he’s doing things that puts the whole world economy at risk:
> precipitating the largest increase in US deficit in history hampering funding needed for infrastructure and healthcare.
> eliminating most financial regulatory safe guards against conditions that caused the catastrophic Bush recession
> launching an ill-advised unprecedented world-wide trade war with the US’s largest creditor.
It’s a fool’s folly that recklessly puts everything that’s going well in peril which has been trump’s MO for years.
10
These statistics are so misleading. Is Trump MANIPULATING the Stock Market? One Tweet from him and the market goes up or down. How much money is Kushner making out of the market given his inside knowledge of Tweets and the fact that he is an Advisor to Trump. I am very suspicious of this data....and don't see middle class or lower income people benefiting.
8
@Philip W
Good news is tough to accept, huh?
1
@Philip W Everything else about Trump is fake- such as Barr's pre-empting the Mueller report. He lies all the time so to give these "good" results unquestioning veracity would be something dumb in the extreme. That African American guy in the tan suit is likely responsible for anything positive if anybody.
2
How many of these jobs are the seasonal ones that will disappear in January?
6
A person with a full time job cannot afford an apartment in most major cities. Millions of people are without adequate healthcare in our country. 700,000 Americans are going to be losing their food stamps which help then get decent nutrition for their families. Of course the majority of people being impacted by this cruelty are children.
Anyone who doesn't care about their fellow man's healthcare, a living wage for workers, and nutrition for defenceless children should be ashamed of themselves. However if they are not, it's the job of the rest of us to vote Trump and the rest of the Republicans out of office before they do any more damage to our country. Healthcare alone should be enough for us to vote them out. If you get sick in the United States you stand an excellent chance of going bankrupt even with insurance.
8
@Stephen
244,000 jobs were created. Having a job is better than not having one.
5
@Sendero Caribe As a general assertion, yes, this is true ("Having a job is better than not having one") - but this is a straw man fallacy.
The issue at play here is that the devil is in the detail: the "number of jobs newly created" is a meaningless indicator since there are too many categories of jobs (full-time, part-time seasonal, contract, w/ benefits, no benefits, minimum wage, below minimum wage, etc.) which are treated and measured the same, which is profoundly wrong and incorrect.
4
@Sendero Caribe As a general assertion, yes, this is true ("Having a job is better than not having one") - but this is a straw man fallacy.
The issue at play here is that the devil is in the detail: the "number of jobs newly created" is a meaningless indicator since there are too many categories of jobs (full-time, part-time seasonal, contract, w/ benefits, no benefits, minimum wage, below minimum wage, etc.) which are treated and measured the same, which is profoundly wrong and incorrect.
1
Just be sure, not in the tiniest way, via veiled comment or 360 degree reasoning, or fault attributed to an alternative fact, or even by discovery of a minuscule error in an alternative interpretation of the figures, should any credit whatsoever be given to the political party during whose watch the numbers occurred.
2
great news, this has nothing to do with him and his policies and the economy will go on without him. he has poisoned the well of our democracy and must be expelled from our democratic community. if he will not desist then that is treason and he must be expelled from our society.
4
Cut free trade with China and there will be many more made-in-America jobs.
2
I don’t believe it.
Trump lies about everything— literally everything. He lies about matters big & small. In his bizarre dystopian Inauguration address he announced his intention to shrink (aka “destroy”) government by de-staffing agencies and ignoring moral and legal obligations, even settled precedent. So, why should I take any jobs-growth announcement from the gutted, servile, politicized Bureau of Labor Statistics seriously?
6
I agree. I don’t trust the government on ANYTHING anymore.
2
Fake News! It's amazing how everything the White House and Trump controlled departments and agencies proclaim about everything else is patently false, but these labor statistics are always totally on the up and up.
2
Looks like the economy does not care about impeachment cause they think it’s ineffective and will boost Trump’s chances of re-election.
Maybe just maybe African Americans will consider Trump and like Trump said what do you have to lose besides unemployment. Democrats offer nothing but self pity.
2
America is in a Golden Age.
1
What you meant is “America is in a Gilded Age”
1
@Robert James
It is in an Orange Age. You know what an orange is, in the fridge or not? It means the beginning of something. I am sure Trump knows all about the oranges of the Constitution. That inconvenient document that is giving him peaches.
For further information watch Don Lemon.
If the numbers were bad, you'd be keel -hauling Trump. When they're good, you say either 1) they're not really good jobs (seasonal, low wage etc) or 2) the credit belongs to Obama. Some actually argue both.
Stop before you lose all credibility.
7
@Wine Country Dude
What exactly did Trump do? Turn up at 5 in the morning to the Oval Office with a briefcase and analyse the data? What was that again about credibility?
5
@Bob Guthrie
Argument 3! When numbers are good, the president has nothing to do with it.
2
Bob,
We all knew he couldn’t answer the question.
1
Right after the 2020 election, while corporations will continue to enjoy the benefits they received under the new tax plan, equivalent benefits for individuals are going away.
This administration, and the GOP more broadly, are seeking to take people off food stamps, reduce social security and medicare benefits, allow employers to discriminate against various groups at will. A "booming" economy doesn't address these types of issues.
The way the education department under Betsy DeVos is addressing student debt issues, more people will be facing severe difficulties in the next decades which will cut into whatever temporary benefit they may have been enjoying up to now. Education costs will drag down many people.
Another attempt to take health care away from ordinary citizens will, if successful, create a counterweight to the "boom" it is claimed ordinary citizens are benefiting from.
Taxes will have to rise to meet the challenge of reducing the trillion-dollar-debt Trump and his GOP buddies handed the middle class to pay, while handing the super wealthy billions of extra money they don't need. Those paying for the rich to have more will be worse off, again - despite any "booming" economy.
If this president has had any plan while in office, it has been to juice the economy enough to be re-elected in 2020...and then strip the ordinary citizen of whatever financial gain and freedom he or she has...to the exclusive benefit of the rich and the corporate and the corrupt.
4
If these "job" numbers include walking dogs at $25 a pop I'm not impressed. If wages haven't gone up as well I'm not impressed. Frankly, I'm not impressed period.
6
People are selfish, that’s just the way it is. For many if not most, what they can buy on Black Friday is more important than what’s happening to the climate or in Federal detention centers. That’s why this data disturbs me. Although artificially elevated, the strong economy is Trump’s trump card. Let’s just hope the Democrats successfully counteract that because it plays very strong in this country.
2
Fueling trade tensions? Those pesky impeachment hearings are responsible for so much unease.
Healthcare premiums are up.eight percent,co-pays and deductables are up, property taxes are up seven percent. Wages are up.....one percent? The third rail for republicans, the deficit,is through the roof. Tell me again how the tax cuts paid for themselves. Oh,yes, pollution is up.
4
And there's no chance Scalia's not tweaking numbers? It's team T after all.
3
Trump's economic policies are winning in America and benefiting people of color to a greater degree than anything Democrats have done this century.
18
@BearBoy
Too funny!
FYI, the unemployment rate is the same as it was 50 years ago. Since then, the unemployment rate has gone up 6.2% under Republican presidents, including Trump, and down 6.2% under Democratic presidents.
The unemployment rate for blacks fell from 16.6% (the peak from the Great Recession) to 7.7% under Obama and then to 5.5% under Trump. In other words, more than 80% of the decline in the black unemployment rate came under Obama.
5
Sure If you mean it now allows you to buy a second 6 pack during the week.
3
And yet more than 90 percent of African-Americans and three quarters of Latinos reject Donald Trump, while 100 percent of white power hate groups support him. Are you saying people of color aren’t smart enough to realize Donald Trump is good for them? If not, how do you explain that people of color, whom you claim he is helping, overwhelmingly reject him?
3
Anything that helps Trump get re-elected is bad for the country.
Jobs figures going up seems good but Trump has nothing to do with jobs.
The job numbers are the result of the Obama administration policies. If Hillary had been elected, no telling how high the employment rate would be today. Trump can brag all he wants, but facts are facts. Sorry Mr. Trump.
2
Does anyone know any business owners that aren’t looking for help? I know a family run pizza shop owner that had to close a location, because he couldn’t get help. Deliverers get $10.00 an hour plus tips in his delivery trucks. Servers get full minimum wage plus tips, and non tip employees train at $12 an hour. He had 6 people show up for interviews, out of 25 scheduled. These may not be career jobs, but they are not $7.50 an hour either. Every place I walk past says help wanted. I always thought they were part time minimum wage jobs. After talking to the owner of my favorite pizza joint of 55 years, (son of the founder), I found out that full time jobs are not being filled, or applicants even showing up for interviews. Times have never been better in my lifetime to get a job. Everyone must think if they can’t get $35k to 40k a year, why bother.
6
Dear NYT:
As usual, The Times refuses to give President Trump any credit whatsoever for good news -- and this indeed is continuing blockbuster economic news -- while tying him to any negative news, no matter how attenuated.
Instead The Times doubles down on failed socialist policies, a form of denialism as pernicious and anti-scientific as climate change denial.
How about an honest assessment of how and to what extent Trump's low-tax, regulation-busting, stand up for American business policies have produced the longest sustained boom in modern history? Why were the liberal economists so wrong about sustained GDP growth? How is it that tax cuts and tariffs have not caused high prices? Why no inflation?
It would be good to see Democrats and their media allies grapple with these questions with a bit more honesty. And more important, let's help build on President Trump' success and create an economy that can excel in what looks to be an era of accelerated change - AI, robotics, blockchain, new forms of energy...
We need new and more flexible theories of competition and antitrust to deal with global tech monopolies. What is the right set of incentives to spread the wealth more evenly, with higher wages, better jobs and more equality of opportunity?
15
Just something to ponder on; all past market economic crashes have been caused by governments deregulating the markets and banking and financial industries. Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.
12
@CK
Exactly. Deregulation and, perhaps more importantly, desupervision are poisonous to economies. Deregulation, by the way, is also poisonous to the earth and its inhabitants.
1
@CK - But, but, but that’s the free market ...
@CK 'Mericans have very short memories.
Is this something the Twitter Twit can tout, when another report was issued that said hundreds of thousands of men, 25-54 yrs old, have stopped looking for jobs? Those people don't think he has MAGA...and, I'd loved to see more analysis of the types of jobs being created. Are they professional level jobs, with professional level pay, or hourly service jobs, or holiday-related jobs that will end on New Year's Day? I suppose we can't trust anything that comes out of this administration at this point, and this would be no exception, IMHO...
8
Well, it seems that Donald Trump's response to good job numbers is to cut SNAP payments, to continue to deny the devastating effects of climate change on our economic future, to dangle incoherent proposals about his approach to tariffs. No thanks. I don't think he has anything to strut about with people who see beyond the unemployment rate.
10
Really? Less than 300,000 jobs in a country with 327.2 million people. Does not seem like a huge gain to me. Didn't Ivanka create $1,000,000 according to tRump? Can we trust the Labor Department anymore?
6
3.5% unemployment is not just good; it's great. But how did we get here? The unemployment rate was also 3.5% 50 years ago. Since then, it has gone up 6.2% under Republican presidents and down 6.2% under Democratic presidents.
5
That’s the disaster actually. The economy hasn’t been stronger in 50 years, but people still can’t afford college tuition or a 2-bedroom rent in most cities in America. Hard-working people with 2 jobs. Forget about medical bills.
10
Shhh! You’re not supposed to ask questions like that.
Is there an employment rate for good jobs? The kind that covers your families housing, health care, education, retirement? That's what should be making headlines.
10
Why job numbers compared to the previous month? They should be compared to the same period last year. YTD last year vs this tear also helps.
2
Wow! What a tremendous jobs report on all counts! Blockbuster headline number plus even stronger revisions to past data after a positive revision last month too. Wage growth consistently 50 to nearly 100% above inflation. I love to see my fellow Americans at work, being productive. It feels so good to be part of all this winning. And to think, all it took was the novel approach of slashing business killing regulations and cutting taxes so that Americans can prosper without the stranglehold of government keeping them down. Live free and continue to prosper my fellow Americans!
11
@Bob
50 to 100% above inflation? Surely you jest. Or are deranged. Healthcare is up at least 10% on premiums and so are deductibles and co-pays. Local property taxes are rising. That's just two examples. Are workers getting 15% raises every year?
5
I don’t spoze you’d have the slightest evidence for your claim that cutting regs and taxes did this, let alone that this is significantly better than what happened under Obama?
4
@Bob Do you trust numbers that come out of the Trump Administration? Trump lies about EVERYTHING. Why not this? I'm always watching the job market and I've watched jobs dry up over the past few months. My brother is unemployed and freaking out because there are no jobs. I don't believe these numbers. Not one bit.
1
The doom-and-gloom crowd will still find fault, not believe or say it's "despite Trump". In the meantime, inner city folks are getting back to work, people are leaving involuntary retirement and back to work, and manufacturing is doing better and better. The "head in the sand" mentality is what will doom Democrats.
12
Trump and his supporters didn’t believe it when the Obama administration started and continued the successful economy Trump fell down the stairs onto. Why was that acceptable?
7
@Cousin Greg Unemployment under Obama went from 9.5% when he entered office to 5% when he left office. That's a 4.5% job gain. Trump gets 1.5% over 3 years and is congratulating himself? IF these numbers are even true, which I totally doubt. Pfft
4
@Cindy
Super easy to get down to 5%. That's normal unemployment. Very hard to get down to the lowest level in 50+ years.
1
How good is that if people are taking second and third jobs just to make it work?
8
@Voltaire
A very small subset of Americans has more than one job (4.9% of working americans, 2.45% of all americans inclusive of the half that have no job). Nice try!
1
Where are the workers? In Maine the unemployment rate is about 2.9%. The labor pool is insufficient. All businesses are hurting.
3
@Bill Wilkerson
It's more about low pay than it is a worker shortage.
5
Um ... wouldn't this be the perfect time for our country to start paying DOWN our federal deficit, rather than continuing to run it up on the federal credit card? (Trump is pushing it past $1 trillion/year in 2020 and beyond)
Maybe Amazon, which paid ZERO federal income taxes last year, could chip in a little bit? How about Chevron, Netflix, and Honeywell International, which also paid zero federal taxes. And then there are the bazillionaires like Bezos, Buffett, Gates, and Charles Koch who don't seem to be hurting too much this year. Could, maybe, they also pitch in? Just a crazy idea.
Meanwhile, the federal income tax that I paid last year was the highest I've ever paid. You're welcome.
7
This is only proof that a one trillion dollar deficit may stimulated hiring. But these folks always lie and we need to start looking at other non government supplied economic indicators, and there I think the picture is more mixed.
4
In an earlier comment I said the Times was not doing enough to point out that Trump's climate denial makes any jobs report old news. After yesterday's excellent article on the devastation taking place in Brazil’s amazon, triggered by Chinese and American investments, it seems obvious that in order to save the planet the jobs that are needed are those that take the environment into account at every level. And the next Democrat who is president will create at least 10 million environmentally smart jobs as opposed to Trump's still catering to his fossil fuel supporters. And the next president will lead the world in fighting climate change. Which world do we want to live in is really the question that any jobs report must acknowledge. Trump's jobs report is really more doomsday reporting on how fossil fuel will destroy the planet.
3
Many of the comments here, except for the Trump supporters, do understand the economy as it pertains to themselves, their families and their communities. They also understand that the only thing worse than a barely survival wage job is no job at all, so kudos for added jobs. The economic problem that we are facing is of a bipartisan and global nature. None of our Presidents in years have moved the needle towards strengthening the middle class which is really what had made the U.S. economy the envy of the world. Many commentators express their frustration with the aggrandizement of added jobs as if that number in and of itself is a panacea to our problems while poverty, hunger and homelessness are steadily growing. These problems occurred before Trump and will remain after he is gone. The dilemma is that while partisans pat Trump on the back the real problems of our society are being totally ignored by our government.
4
I see many of the comments here dismissing these numbers as not the full picture of the economy. I agree with that. But months ago when the jobs numbers showed slowing hiring and a slowing economy, the comments were largely celebratory that finally Trump was going to have the rug pulled out from him. We can't credit Obama for these numbers when they are good and slam Trump when they are bad. We also can't dismiss the numbers when good and point to them as proof of bad policy when bad.
9
If trump started to discredit Obama’s election with his birtherism, constant lies , paling around with Russia, produites, it is only fairplay to deny trump about just anything.
2
You can spin it however you want. The economy is very strong. Trump will win in a landslide if Biden is the nominee.
8
@Julia
I'd end that sentence at landslide. Biden's the best candidate in the pool with possible exception of Buttigieg. Warren and Sanders propose to fix that which is demonstrably not broken at great cost to everyone both in terms of lost economic growth and in terms of liberties trampled upon by the government in its quest to "level the playing field" (aka chopping the legs out from underneath the most productive members of society).
4
@Julia - A far more accurate read on the report is that some 266,000 folks got a second job in the service sector last month. MAGA.
2
@Julia What do you do for a living? Are you subsidized by someone else's salary? Please don't conflate your personal finances with the realities of the national economy.
Solid numbers, hopefully worth the 60% increase in the deficit vs. continuation of Obama policy.
3
@David Doney 60% increase in deficit to gain 1.5% employment. NOT worth it!
3
Why not just say it- Trumps doing a good job. Don’t be a sourpuss!
1
"secure jobs that pay a middle-income wage can be hard to find."
And wow, 12-hour work shifts at $14 to $15 dollars an hour! Who wouldn't want that!
Yup. That's the Trump "booming economy" in a nutshell.
5
I would prefer some better data as to how these numbers are formulated. Are they part time, full time, casual, holiday etc.
I don’t actually believe anything coming out of the White House or by Wilbur Ross.
11
These appear to be part time Christmas rush positions not only in retail, but also in food and beverage positions. Or those that are working at low wage are getting a second holiday job to cover costs for a family holiday.
7
This is really good news.
I wonder: Am I the only one out there beginning to contemplate for the first time simply voting, through all the partisan haze and din, my proverbial "pocketbook" in the 2020 election?
We're told Trump is only riding an economy set up by Obama and stealing unearned credit for it.
But it is not true. I remember Obama saying we must get used to at best 1% growth as the new norm in the modern world. That talk of fixing an economy is just "magic wand" demagoguery.
My generally quite well-off and comfortable progressive friends are at best ambivalent about economic growth. Indeed, most are against it.
I watch them clasp to their bosoms with a bewildering emotional force that is almost frightening in intensity the rage of the self-professed dream-berobbed young economist Greta Thunberg:
"We are in the beginning of a mass extinction, and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth. How dare you!"
This, while I remember Obama discouraging and flat-out shutting down various economic sectors that are now opened and flourishing under Trump policies, bringing happiness prosperity and meaning to countless blighted lives and regions.
Trump/Pence 2020? I dunno. Maybe best.
10
@RLS
Where are the "various economic sectors that are now opened and flourishing under Trump policies"?
Oh, that's right, coal! And just in time for Christmas!
2
@RLS
"I watch them clasp to their bosoms with a bewildering emotional force that is almost frightening in intensity the rage of the self-professed dream-berobbed young economist Greta Thunberg:
"We are in the beginning of a mass extinction, and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth. How dare you!"
Please explain exactly what is not accurate about Greta Thunberg's statement. Seems pretty on the nose to me.
1
Trump brings happiness? Really?
Hilarious.
The second most recommenced comment here thanks Obama for this economy.
Obama left office almost 3 years ago!
Could it perhaps be that Trump's deregulation and corporate tax relief has just a little something to do with this??
11
@John And as has been the case in the past, all international economic crashes have been caused by the USA deregulating it's markets and financial lending. Our government has stricter laws for the banking and financial industry in NZ.
4
Yes it does. It also has something to do with a degraded environment, recent chemical plant explosions, poorer food safety, a drastic reduction in life saving medical research, more dangerous working conditions, loss of protection for seashores, marshes, estuaries and National Parks and a record breaking budget deficit and national debt. Please don’t ignore those aspects of the Trump economy. And oh by the way, Trump justified the enormous tax cut by saying GDP will grow by 3 or 4 percent. Ironically, the actual growth rate is closer to Obama’s predictions.
9
@John What's hilarious is Trump grabbing credit for an economic upswing that began in 2010.
1
Have you seen this CNN headline today? "Trump now has an obvious path to a second term". Are the American people really that callous to think that a temporary increase in jobs, is more important than protecting the US Constitution ?
5
@Irene Cantu
If people were all that concerned about protecting the US Constitution, perhaps they would have held the Obama administration more to account for the self-dealing of Joe Biden, squashing Feinstein's torture report from ever seeing the light of day and not prosecuting any criminal on Wall Street despite numerous referrals.
1
Yes they are provided they take a moment to think. But hey who’s got the time when the next 6 pack and football game is waiting...
1
Yes, yes they are!
Reality Check given 400000 baby bomber retire every month from jobs pay living wage with benfits for health care. Job market is still getting smaller. Here in rochester ny all we see is rements of empty corperate towers an empty manufatoring plants onece housed 400000 jobs paid living wage.
2
What I see advertised are low-paying jobs which are non-union. People I meet such as Uber drivers say they are struggling. When I tried to talk to people at work about unionizing so that we can have better wages, I was rebuffed.
So at this point, I continue to vote for progressives (ACTUAL ones who support unions, not neoliberals and obviously not Republicans). I contribute to NELP and other progressive organisations. That's what I can do. I can't control other people.
When I've tried to talk to those who support Republicans, they react with vitriol and hatred (even though THEY brought up the fact that they hate 'liberals' and brought up the topic of politics!). A lot of them are older and the Republicans are working to take away their social safety net, but they don't seem to care. Maybe they are just unconsciously spewing based on some unresolved issues that they need to work on in therapy. They seem brainwashed by Fox News.
I think of them as Mindless Primitives. That describes them exactly. And I'm not talking about people that can calmly explain their position. I have yet to meet anyone on the right who does that.
I've read articles examining their motivations in various publications, but the conclusion I reach is that they are stupid and mean. Caucasians without a college degree. Well, they could go to the library. They could read The New York Times. They could stop hating 'liberals' like me who are work to help them.
6
266,000 people is not a big percentage of the total population of the USA. How pathetic is the government for such a measly result considering how much they get paid to run the nation efficiently and get government debt down as well as look after the health and welfare of their citizens.
3
Who else here thinks the Trump Administration job reports numbers are lies?
11
When these numbers were reported during the Obama Administration, Trump called them lies. But magically, during his Administration they are gospel. Same reporting methodology.
3
It is very scary when the likes of the NYT reporting goes for only the surface information rather than giving a fuller story of the economy between Obama and Trump and regarding that about half of US workers are working part time and most often without benefits. I realize these 2 great newspaper are merely corporations too, just keep hoping they realize they can do much better than half truths.
The WaPo did the same thing today but does have a deeper analysis piece with a conclusion that the economy is not as robust as under Obama: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/06/this-is-what-trump-economy-looks-like/
2
Trump lies. Republicans lie.
I wouldn't believe any figures or statistic that comes out of this administration. Period.
5
Many jobs are temporary or with no job security. Gig economy abounds. I need to see real job growth in permanent, family sustaining job market.
4
“The job market is losing its shine,” Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Analytics
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/04/private-payrolls-up-67000-in-november-vs-125000-expected-adpmoodys.html
3
Everything is gonna be okay, Just a while
I for one don’t care. With a legit criminal in the white hours depleting our tax dollars for his various legal defenses, his failing hotels, and even airports in Scotland, I could simply care less about anything more than putting this thug behind bars.
7
Has anyone checked in on Paul Krugman?
I hope he’s doing OK
11
Lots of USA tour groups in NZ. I was on the Coastal Pacific express from Picton to Christchurch and half the people in the train/railcar were USA citizens. So thanks USA for exporting your citizens to NZ to holiday as tourism is our biggest export earner and you're helping get our government debt down. And your citizens also pay GST tax on everything they buy so that goes to the government to pay off our government debt as well. We are a nuclear free nation and have some of the purest air and waters in the world - probably why they're out here! To get away from Trumps pollution plan for the USA.
7
Low entry level jobs were added,and they don't even pay a living wage, I get kind of angry, when these article are published, because it doesn't change the situation , somewhere in title it says that these are low entry level jobs, there are homeless people working these jobs, and there are thousands, like me that are suffering from jobs like these that don't pay a living wage....ugh.
7
Deus's comments are spot on. The jobs report will be far more meaningful when it reports the range of wages paid that are above and below the mean livable wage for the country. Millions of food servers and Walmart like workers would like to know.
5
If the Trump Administration can accuse the NSA, FBI, the FED, CIA, et al as fake and untrustworthy, there is no reason not to assume any 'Statistics' offered by the Trump Administration's Labor Department can't be trusted either.
9
They simply need to quit reporting that X number of jobs were created or added. It’s pablum for the credulous.
What needs to be reported is how many jobs with benefits and a living wage were added to the economy. Now THAT would be real economic information.
For instance, there was “full employment” for African Americans in the south in 1860. There is full employment now for whole families living in hovels harvesting our food in California. There are people going to work bright and early from our church basement shelter where people sleep on the floor. There is full employment for family farmers (real ones, not the factory farm variety) whose average age is 65 and who get not a single day off.
Let’s have real and meaningful information about pay and work conditions. I can say I’m a job creator and legally pay someone a wage that was last an amount to live on thirty years ago. And still claim I’ve “created a job”. Utter nonsense.
2
Trump had nothing to do with this.
He just got lucky.
2
@RP He has successfully pressured the Fed to lower interest rates in a growing economy with low inflation. His “biggest tax cut of all time” has produced a $trillion deficit. Household debt is at an all time high at nearly a $trillion. That’s a lot of stimulus which belies a healthy economy. Trump has pumped up the economy with a lot of hot air. It’s going to explode, hopefully before he is able to con the gullible into voting for him again.
2
It is mind boggling that the very people who are getting hammered or who will soon be hammered by trump's foolish economic agenda are the same ones who defend him to the death. MAGA my foot. trump isn't making us great again; he's hollowing out our financial footing, destroyng our military and economic alliances, and undermining the middle and working classes.
If only the economic suffering that is coming our way would be limited to those who are foolish enough to support this completely corrupt administration. Unfortunately, that won't be the case, which is why so many of us are shouting from the rooftops.
2
I don't think 266,000 jobs in a country with a large population of citizens is going to be a vote catcher for the rest of the nation. lol! If young people decide to get out and vote on environmental issues then it's gone burgers for the Republicans. There's lots of USA companies, at this moment in time, getting approval from our government to buy big tracks of land to plant redwood trees to export back to the USA. And lots of USA businesses in NZ employing NZers.
1
My 25 year old daughter got one of these jobs.
9 bucks an hour at a pizza place.
I'll keep paying her rent.
7
If Trump's economy is booming how come the planet is being destroyed by his climate denial? When will the Times allow reporters to add the cost of climate programs to articles to prove that Trump not spending on climate issues guarantees that we are basically going backwards and when the reality hits it will not be affordable to any of us, even the billionaires hiding in their bunkers. If Trump and his administration are ignorant enough to believe the economy can do well without any regard taken for climate change that does not mean that New York Times has to agree and add their reporting to that nonsense that cannot save us when we go past the tipping point. Give readers the credit to know that Trump's economy is, like the president, a sham and as fake as his Republican supporters announcing by a majority Trump is the greater president than Lincoln. With people supporting Trump being that uneducated the future is clearly very bleak and no fake booming economy will save us.
2
Unless the NYT is going to give detailed specifics on the sorts of jobs added these reports are utterly meaningless. 40,000 of those jobs were UAW people returning to work so they weren't jobs created. The rest are mainly temporary seasonal no-benefit wage-slave gigs. There were maybe a dozen or so good jobs for which people were hired. That's the reality of these so-called "job reports".
2
I trust nothing to be true from this administration. Nothing.
2
Job report by itself is meaningless. What if Joe had to work three low-paying jobs to make ends meet? The metrics should be household debt and/or average household savings versus household time off or vacation expenses.
4
This jobs report is nothing to be excited about. The jobs created are dirty toxic coal miner jobs and oil industry . The others are low wages with no health benefits. You need 2 or 3 jobs to survive. The only ones who do well in this Republican administration who had to give the corporations a trillion in welfare tax breaks. Make them all pay back now . This is the real American scenario not rosey and the truth like FOX news says. Many GOP states still have a federal minimum wage at 5.25 cents an hour .
3
If you like a good stock market, faster job growth and better economic growth, you are, or should be, a Democrat. Democratic administrations have a vastly superior track record on all three.
2
Seems many people disagree with data when it conflicts with their preconceived notions.
7
@Matthew - I don’t disagree with these numbers. Most reasonable people wouldn’t. They show that the economy added some 266,000 less-than-full-time service industry jobs in November.
The sky’s the limit for corporate earnings and shareholder dividends. By any means necessary. And that’s all that matters, right?
3
@Matthew
Or observations.
1
All should accumulate four years' worth of expenses in cash. After that just keep buying a total market index fund. And always vote Democrat; since 1933 they have reliably cleaned up the Republicans' economic messes. What else is there to do.
4
Jobs spike every November as the holidays get in gear. This is not a phenomenon. You can see that trend in the graph. How may of these jobs will be gone in January?
4
China and USA are very similar when it comes to how it treats its citizens. Low minimum wages, no Labour Department investigating slave labour and underpaying of workers. No welfare for the unemployed, no government universal health care system, or government universal paid retirement pension at 65 years old.
USA and China have the same number of millionaires and billionaires yet neglect the health and welfare of it's nations citizens. Neither China or USA is a socialist nation and both are extreme right wing conservative capitalist societies where low wages and lack of health care by the government and lack of social welfare of their citizens is dominant.
China is NOT a socialist nation so lots of people in the USA have a weird idea of what socialist means. A truly socialist nation is like New Zealand or Australia or lots of European nations where their wages are higher, with better laws to protect workers, tax credits for families and social welfare payments, like child support for people with children. In NZ people with kids get paid as much by the government for their kids in payments, as what they get paid weekly by their employers for full time work. And our economies are doing better than yours.
4
What do those jobs pay? More minimum wage jobs with no benefits? We need better.
5
“Average hourly earnings rose 0.2 percent, with a year-over-year gain of 3.1 percent.”
So, the wages of someone making $12/hr. increased a whopping 2.4¢/hr. over the last month and rose an astonishing 37¢/hr. over some year in the past.
I am almost embarrassed to have been such a harsh critic of supply side economics. Numbers like those make it clear that that “perfect” tax cut passed by the Republicans has indeed trickled down to the masses.
What was I thinking? Thanks be to Trump, the Donor Class, & all their GOP Friends.
3
Of course, this number does not tell us if the same person holds more than one job, are they working beyond retirement age and/or where the income gains are going. The "jobs" report is only useful to look at long term trends. In fact, the U-3 has little or no value at all.
More importantly, we know even less about the standard of living or the quality of life of our citizens.
Trust me, for the working class it has not improved in 40 years. You need not be an economist to have figured that much out.
3
What sort of jobs, though? Full-time jobs with benefits that pay a living wage? Thought not.
5
Your talking about those jobs created while Obama was President?
Make AMERICA Great Again 🇺🇸
No country can be great when it's citizens have to work two or three minimum-wage casual jobs to make ends meet, and then still can't afford to buy health insurance, let alone life insurance. Still, you keep throwing out Trump propaganda and waving that flag, it's really helping. Not.
2
Low unemployment, roaring stock market ; but mediocre GDP numbers with very low interest rates and very low inflation and a rising debt load which indicates no Oomph or horsepower in this economy ....or am I missing something.
7
An impending bubble burst. It’s coming soon. You can’t feed the country a diet of sugar and Trump and not expect a little throw up.
4
If things are so great, how come the food bank I work at gave out 48 monthly boxes and 28 weekly walk-ins on Wednesday? Why do so many of our clients with children have more than two jobs per family? Why are so many retirees among our regulars? And why do we have new people come in every week and/or people who haven’t been in for two or three years coming back? And finally, are these figures seasonally adjusted?
9
@Susan A. Johnson
Remember others insist on calling it the Obama economy. Insist that Trump has had no effect on the economy. Written by die hard Democrats.
1
"The buffet of available job postings has drawn many Americans back to work. Employers have widened their scope, recruiting people with disabilities or criminal records. Older baby boomers are working past retirement age and stay-at-home parents are switching to paid employment."
Because they can't afford not to!!
6
Sure go ahead and impeach a President who has produced a booming economy with low unemployment over a phone call in which many believe he was seeking an investigation into potential corruption by a former Vice-president into a company who employed his son and the company is regarded is corrupt with hundreds of millions of dollars about to be sent. They were and missiles went as well. Never mind Obama never gave military support. He's called a King but Kings build any wall they want, Kings don't get impeached, Kings could get their Healthcare laws passed. What goes around comes around. Democrats were warned when they employed the nuclear option 4-5 years back. Now, as a consequence, Democrats have two Supreme Court justices sitting for 30 years for their mistake. Oh, I forgot this is not about politics; this is about James Madison etc. I don't believe in the tooth fairy either. And when all is said and done Trump will be acquitted and their hatred will not be assuaged. He will need to be beaten fair and square next November. Good Luck.
8
@alan brown
Please tell me how Trump had anything to do with “a booming economy.”
Let’s see how booming it is when the debt chickens come home to roost.
3
The economy is booming not because of Trump but despite Trump.
2
So Trump is hate free? Good to know. Never would have thought that until you so generously mentioned it. Thanks for pointing out the impossible.
3
There huge differences in the quality of jobs. Obviously, large increases in seasonal jobs such as packing, shipping, and deliveries are not permanent, and "gig" jobs like being an Uber driver do not offer any benefits whatsoever (health care, etc).
It seems highly misleading to report these numbers as if all the jobs were equal in value.
8
I wish job reports would come with a “job quality index”. Beyond the body count, are the pay, benefits, hours, and working conditions trending up or down. Surveys show 40% of Americans couldn’t scrape together $400 in an emergency. The stock market is up but the top 12% own 84% of all stock. From 1978 to 2018, CEO compensation rose 940% compared with just 12% for the average American worker. If you’re a 28 hour per week gig hustler, with poor benefits and no security, you’re employed, but living on the edge. Can living like that lead to a solid retirement? The median household led by someone 65 or older had liquid savings of $60,600 in 2016, according to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, whereas the bottom 25 percent of households had saved at most $3,260. Employment is one thing; a decent life and future security is another.
5
Zip: brilliant slogan to run by: a decent life and future security. I’ll drink to that dream at happy hour. Cheers
2
@Zip
Hey, if you enjoy working multiple dead-end, go-nowhere, no-future, short-term low-wage jobs at the same time, Vote Trump!
3
@Zip How many low paying jobs are multiple jobs that are held by single individuals e.g., working 2-3 jobs?
2
Middle income jobs with steady hours, a living wage, and benefits, are still in short supply, especially for those over 50. The lead is buried; is it an effort not to seem unfair to the Administration?
Bernie Sanders is largely responsible for pushing Amazon to pay $15/hr, but as the Center for Investigative Reporting has shown, their jobs are not humane for many. And in many cities, $15/hr is not close to a living wage. And as others have noted, homelessness is at record levels, because of income inequality's consequences. GDP and jobs reports are inadequate for our times.
3
How many of these jobs represent temporary full and part time seasonal, holiday seasonal, jobs ?
1
@Lenny
The numbers are seasonally adjusted which corrects for seasonal fluctuations.
7
@Meg
Thank you .
Most of the comments I have read so far border on self parody.
The employment numbers are unambiguously good. Real wages are rising, and rising fastest for those at the bottom.
The unemployment rate is the lowest it has been in 50 years.
Yet the left can neither acknowledge nor abide this. It seems to genuinely hope the economy tanks, and many people suffer, so as to help defeat Trump next year.
These comments are mostly wrong and genuinely shameful.
14
@Meg The far better analysis of jobs numbers is gained when you zoom out to longer periods for your analysis. When you go out 8 years, you find that there are always good and not so good months. But the general trend has been in the range of 180,000 to 250,000 per month. Trump's monthly growth statistics are in the range we have experienced since 2011.
Trump was dismissive of the same numbers that he crows about now. When he ran the very same trend that we see now was phony. The second he was sworn in, they showed his genius. Well, neither Trump proposition was ever true.
We all expect a downturn. I am amazed by conservatives that expect never-ending growth. Capitalism is known for being cyclic. And Republican's have never been shy of criticism either.
6
@Meg
What is genuinely shameful is the ignorance of the American right. Fact: historically (since 1939), the pace of job creation has been 80% better under Democratic administrations. Fact: historically (since 1930), GDP growth has been 138% better under Democratic administrations.
The unemployment rate may be the lowest in 50 years, but that's because the unemployment rate has increased 6.2% over the last 50 years under Republican administrations and decreased 6.2% under Democratic administrations.
3
@Meg I had to laugh at this piece of propaganda.
2
The pace of job creation has increased when Democratic administrations have followed Republican ones and decreased when Republican administrations have followed Democratic ones. This has happened 9 times in a row. The odds of this happening by chance are more than 500 to 1. Perhaps Trump will break this string, but then it would just be 9 out of the last 10 times.
2
Another month goes by, and more voodoo jobs numbers from the Trump Administration. Considering the lack of credibility, from Trump and his cabinet, again these numbers seem too good to be true.
You have layoffs, a trade war, construction slowdown, plant shutdowns, bad weather, Thanksgiving, etc., but you have a sterling jobs reports, and say unemployment is at the lowest level, it has ever been, since they have been keeping records. Especially, when people are working multiple part time jobs, living pay check to pay check, and struggling to keep pace with under reported inflation.
Inflation, the other voodoo number. Social Security benefits wen up 1.6% Most wer3e wiped out by raising Medicare Part B by about $17. My city just raised water rates 9%, electric rates 5%. My HOA just fees 7%. My property tax went up 20%. My grocery bill has gone up about 10% from last year. But, inflation is 1.6%.
Even during the great times of the Clinton, Kennedy and Eisenhower Administration, has the US seen such low unemployment.
At this point, one has to conclude that anything coming from the Trump Administration is a fabrication, to make things look better than they actually are. The Fed thinks so, that is why they are now reducing interest rates, and may continue to do so.
11
The Bureau of Labor Statistics Nov 13 report indicates a real average hourly earnings DECREASE from September to October 2019 when the inflation rate is considered, though there is a seasonally adjusted increase of 1.9 % year to year. After decades of wage stagnation this is it? Apparently immense deficits from the tax give back to rich folks, deductibles that make health insurance unusable ( and just for those fortunate enough not to have hourly no benefit jobs,) growing issues with climate related infrastructure tax costs, men permanently out of the work force and not counted are the costs of this grand improvement. And while we are at it let's take 500,000 children off school lunch ( see proposed SNAP cuts) so they are hungry enough to look for work? As one women said, "So many jobs are great. I have three of them and still can't pay my rent!"
5
The money quote and really the only line worth reading in this report:
"Still, despite the low unemployment rate, stable, secure jobs that pay a middle-income wage can be hard to find across a range of skills."
Who cares how "full" employment is if those jobs don't pay a living wage with good benefits and job security?
Please stop helping Donald Trump get reelected.
8
Americans know these economkc indicators don't capture what's going on for most of us. Housing prices are up 89% since 2000. Automobile and college prices are astronomical. Meanwhile, median income is up 4% in the last 19 years. Total. Yes, that's not a typo. That's 0.1% per year.
I'm surprised Democrats aren't dwelling on this fact more. The phrase "Trump bump" should be repurposed and used to describe the inflation we all feel, not the stock market that the top 30% feel.
4
I love to read about the doom and gloom following outstanding economic reports. Very entertaining.
7
It's actually helpful, well-supported context in most cases, but no one expects Trump supporters to understand it.
10
@Shamrock
I love to read comments from conservatives who disregarded outstanding economic reports under Obama and think that the economy just suddenly became great under Trump. If 266,000 jobs created is outstanding, then Obama had 17 "outstanding" months.
8
We don’t need more jobs, we need more jobs which are life sustaining, and more people to fill the jobs. It takes forever to get an appointment with a primary care doctor, or someone to finish your new home, or fix your leaking refrigerator or washing machine or fixing our bridges or roads. Let the immigrants in!
12
@Time - Space
Participation in the work force is still low. As people are moved off of food stamps and other means of living without working they will internally migrate from the sofa to the workplace. We have plenty of labor. We just need to stop supporting laziness. Trump is working on that with reductions in SNAP.
6
@Time - Space
It takes forever for you to see a doctor?
What's going to happen if any of the democrat candidates win the WH?
5
@KBronson
Brilliant. So all we have to do is remove the lifeline and people will magically rise up and find a paying job. And all the while manufacturers, plus corporations like Walmart, are striving to reduce the number of workers needed. Of course, as the rich get richer, the numbers of servants they can afford goes up too. And servants get fed. Is that what you mean by 'moved off food stamps'?
7
This is bad news for Warren and Sanders. You can’t convince people of a revolution when they are doing okay. Anybody who’s policy proposals make people nervous that things could get worse can’t win. We don’t know if a massive overall in medical care and milking the rich will improve the economy in the long run, but there is a good chance it would cause short term damage to the health of the economy. I know that these socialist policies make we wary of voting for them, especially while I feel the economy is solid.
7
These numbers never seem to go into detail as to exactly what type of jobs are added(full time/part-time/contract etc.), the hours worked and the rate of pay. For eg. someone may have secured a job at Walmart, however, considering the majority of those jobs are part-time, without benefits, they are still under the poverty line.
If all of this is so positive, why is that wages are still relatively stagnant for most and why is that at any given moment, half the population of America could not come up with an unforeseen expense of $500 and fewer people than the year before have health insurance coverage?
The statistics may look good, however, in the real world of working people in America and their desire to get ahead, the stats are meaningless.
277
@Deus
None of the numbers take inflation or CPI into account. Inflation itself is deceiving in how it's calculated. E.g. things like rent, gasoline, water, and electricity increases are not included. It's one reason I prefer the CPI numbers. Inflation over the past 3 years has averaged 2.5%, making the 3.1% growth over the past year seem only to be 0.6%. Worse however is CPI growth over the same period is about 4.5% making the presumed wage growth -1.4% or actually a wage loss. And this is based off just the averages. Averages are skewable in environments where benefits (in this case wages) are distributed outside the normal bell curve.
E.g. consider the following distribution of 10 people:
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 - total 50, average 5
Now we adjust:
1 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 10 15 - total 55, average 5.5
We just had a 10% increase in wages; Woohoo! - right? However, it's obvious that half the population did worse.
This is what we're seeing today. The rich are gaining nearly all the increased benefits from the economy, but because only averages and non-detailed totals are reported, the conclusion is skewed because most Americans really don't understand statistics.
55
@Deus I'm confused. You lament the lack of detail and then state "wages are still relatively stagnant for most.." What does relatively mean? How do you classify most? If wages rise by 3% per year in a 2% inflation environment, is that good or bad? Also, there is a lot of detail in the report. They do breakdown by sectors and professions. You want to know about Fast Food Worker's, it's in the report. Just read the report. You post is just wrong.
20
@Deus - Hit the nail on the head. I recall being hired by a temp agency in San Francisco back in 1984 and being paid $12/hour before landing a permanent position. Now, most of the temp agencies are paying around $11 per hour 35 years later. Chalk it up to crony capitalism which has succeeded in keeping wages suppressed for decades. Besides overseeing an immigration system that allows minors to die cruelly while in custody, the next goal beside cutting food stamps will be to ensure that national health programs like Medicare & Medicaid are nixed. And, no way should the government allow homeless people to clutter up the wealthy's playground and shopping centers. Cruel and heartless disguised as Christianity.
50
I know this may sound like a conspiracy theory: But how do we know we can trust labor numbers from this administration that is prone to lying and inflating and "alternative facts"? I can't help wondering, when these numbers exceed expectations again and again and defy economists' predictions, if they are in fact good numbers.
Remember, the president as a candidate accused the Obama administration of making up the low unemployment numbers. Given this president's propensity to project, perhaps he has had his people do just that -- manufacture numbers to make himself look good.
284
@L. Kadaba THIS! My thoughts exactly.
38
@L. Kadaba
I wouldn't put anything past this cesspool in a WH.
https://www.salon.com/2019/10/22/donald-trumps-big-short-is-the-president-profiting-off-the-market-chaos-he-creates/
Donald Trump's big short: Is the president profiting off the market chaos he creates?
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/09/04/is-the-president-engaging-in-market-manipulation/
33
@Mike Clarke
Seriously - there IS no 'Deep State', and every time Trump and his enablers bring that up, they're insulting highly competent, extremely professional people doing their jobs. If doing your job well means you're somehow part of a deep conspiracy to undermine a president, it's the president who has the problem, not the employees. All these same employees (about half of who are conservatives BTW) were there for Clinton, Bush II, and Obama (in fact some where there for Reagan and Bush I too), and you'd expect everyone to believe that just because Trump is president, they'd suddenly change their demeanor and behave completely out of context to their previous 10, 20, 30 years? That's the question anyone who brings this up has to answer.
30
Any other modern era president. Democrat or Republican. Fine. I would have given them at least some of the credit for a solid economy. Can't do that now. The present economy is solid in spite of not because of the sheer inanity of most of what Trump has done. There is no credible narrative link between the actions of the present administration and a solid short term or long term economy. The present economy is solid because of the solid Obama presidency. It is still the Obama economy. And Obama accomplished that in spite of the Congressional Republican efforts to undermine him at every opportunity.
7
@Robert
That was not the logic the Times used in 1983. Nobody said it was Carter’s economy. Nobody. Go check the Times archives.
@Shamrock
Thanks for your reply. I don't understand the significance. Can you enlighten me?
1. It’s a very good jobs report. It is very unlikely that Trump had the numbers fudged, though he certainly would if he could.
2. The wage growth looks real if modest, and no, these are not just part-time temp jobs.
3. If this continues, it’ll problably help Hizzoner at election time.
4. Despite the yelling, no, these are not better numbers than under Clinton or Obama. They are better than under Bush.
5. There is no real evidence that these numbers come from those loony tax cuts, or dumping essential regulation, or any such thing. I guess you can go with the “animal spirits,” hocus-pocus if you want.
6. The real question is: what does this particular type of prosperity—because it is a TYPE of prosperity, not Prosperity Itself—rest on?
7. Ever just keep blowing up a balloon?
4
Here’s what I see: There are more homeless people than ever living in droves in tent camps under freeways, in broken down campers on little trafficked streets in industrial areas, in their cars with their families. The idea that all homeless people ended up there due to mental illness or laziness, which many people believe, is not true. Some have jobs that provide just enough to keep them fed and keep their car going to get around; some had jobs and are trying desperately to get back to normality. Where are these people in the job statistics? I see them as a warning, hidden under the surface of these glowing job reports, of a impending impact that we don’t yet understand.
239
There are plenty of jobs in the Midwest that pay a starting wage of over $16/hr, no experience needed. A nice one bedroom apartment rents for about $1000/month. Two adults should be able to handle that and in fact, many do. Of course, there’s no earthquake or forest fire problems and the chance of a tornado is about as great as the Cubs winning the World Series again.
30
@John Bowman Well thanks for the word of optimism, but the reality is not all of us to move to Iowa and live in a cornfield. I'm not really sure what the $16 an hour job is you are talking about.... maybe digging ditches? There's a reason why everything is so cheap in the midwest, because most people just don't want to live there!
35
@Ginny S. You live in the most comically expensive urban area in Country, maybe the world. The Bay Area does not represent national conditions. And that homelessness is caused not by a poor economy, but by a booming economy that has outstripped the Bay Area's housing supply.
27
This is also known as part-time, low pay Christmas employment, in retail and on-line sales and delivery.
As a former project director for large city built projects, (not construction, but design, architecture, materials and best environmental practices), part of the process was to calculate demographics of residents around the site.
Our team always built in a 5% unemployment rate in any neighborhood, to account for invalids, drugs addicts, alcoholics, handicapped, those with mental health problems--essentially, those who could not work).
This 5% unemployment number hasn't changed, and is still used in project planning. Every time I read these too low unemployment statistics, I shudder.
Look at the BLS glossary. It defines "employed" as working 1 hour for pay during the week the BLS does its monthly survey.
This means, following the BLS glossary, that 266,000 people worked for 1 hour during this month's BLS survey.
This is unemployment (or a very short babysitting gig) -- not employment.
221
@Lilou Why then are companies unable to find workers?
6
@Lilou Except that it's not. The figures are seasonally adjusted.
10
@T Smith .. Because the American education system hasn't turned out skilled labor in decades.
9
Trump used to deride President Obama's job reports as being misleading. In fact, the Washington Post reported that Trump claimed that the US jobs numbers were made up over 19 separate times prior to the 2016 election. This was right about as many times that Trump claimed that President Obama had been born in Kenya and had a fake birth certificate. Here's one of Trump's tweets about fake job reports from 2012:
"Unemployment rate only dropped because more people are out of labor force & have stopped looking for work.Not a real recovery, phony numbers".
Apparently Trump has undergone a religious conversion when it comes to emphasizing the correlation between the government's job reports and the health of the economy. Now he has reversed his position and claims these statistics are a genuine indicator of his "perfect" economy while the press is "fake news."
2
As a volunteer who is trying to help people get a job, I do not see any of this. What I see are many part-time jobs, working less than 28 hours a week, with no benefits and minimum wage. requently now with split shifts even. How do you think you can live on that little amount of money? Now many of the people I try to help just want to pay rent and get some food, and gas money. They are not looking to make green fees for a Trump golf club. They want a bed and food. And those types of jobs are not avaliable. So frankly, I think the figures being fed us are bogus. Not believable at all.
355
@Gordon Agreed. Many of these jobs are second and third jobs for people trying to make ends meet. The article even says that middle-income jobs are hard to find. This is a bogus number. It's like saying people are well fed because McDonald's sells a hamburger every 10 seconds. There is much more nuance to these reports and the headline grabbing number is very misleading.
54
@Gordon
I, too, have trouble believing the analysis that this report shows a strong economy. The way they define economy is so narrow it includes essentially two things: the stock market and the unemployment number. They ignore things like the cost of living, wage stagnation, employment turnover, benefit reductions, etc.
I myself am STILL trying to find a teaching job five years after I got my master's degree from a respected teacher education university. I have five years' experience, an advanced degree, stellar recommendations, no disciplinary actions against me, no criminal record, hundreds of student testimonials, and still nothing. Well, I guess I do have an exploitative position as an "intern", a second job driving for Lyft, and a third job driving for Avis/Budget.
And if I didn't have my student loans in income-based repayment, they'd be over $700 a month. I have four medications I have to take every month, along with regular trips to two doctors (in addition to regular checkups and dentistry and vision etc.). St. Louis has only one electrical company which can essentially set whatever price they please, my apartment only allows one internet service provider, my credit card has a 26% interest rate they refuse to renegotiate (even with a <25% balance), and everything else.
Even with three jobs in one of the cheapest (and most awesome) cities in the US, I can't sustain my lifestyle longer than another year. And they keep telling me the economy is stellar.
57
@Andrew You might have to move. Some cities have drastic teacher shortages.
12
Can we trust those glowing numbers?
In OCTOBER
ADP showed a growth of 121,000 private jobs
compared with the Labor Department’s tally of 131,000
(close numbers)
In NOVEMBER
private payrolls increased by just 67,000, according to an estimate Wednesday from ADP
Labor department tally 266,000
Remember when Trump was running for President and claimed government was creating "fake jobs reports?"
1
I wish reports like this gave a fuller picture. Sure, the US economy has historically low unemployment...but what about pay. The Express Employment agency mentioned looking to fill light manufacturing positions at $14-$15 per hour in Massachusetts. That's just over $31,000 per year before taxes for full-time work in a state that is well above the US average in cost of living. Nothing about that is middle income; its survival wage at best, especially if you are supporting a family. How many more jobs fall into this category? It isn't just about the jobs, it's about the security and stability those jobs create.
344
@Garry
I live in Massachusetts, and right now there are two firms in Western Mass. that are advertising on the radio for skilled CAD machinists at a starting pay of $50-$60/hr with full benefits. If you have the right in-demand manufacturing skills you can support a family very well, even in Massachusetts.
But, I agree, if you do not have the right skills (manufacturing or otherwise) supporting a family is out of reach, and that's a big problem for us all. I just do not know how to solve this problem as I see so many companies in Massachusetts that have jobs that pay incredibly well, but they cannot find the applicants, and at the other end are tons of workers that have skills which are either in low demand or employers can too easily find to fill.
12
Is the implication here that Democrats being in power would somehow provide light manufacturing workers with secure and stable high wage jobs? Please, tell us how any of their policies would lead to that. Genuine question.
8
@Garry
" It isn't just about the jobs, it's about the security and stability those jobs create."
Yes, Virginia, it is.
Stability and security in capitalist society must be earned by out-competing thy neighbor.
Guaranteed stability and security along with stagnation are socialist features. Everyone (well, almost) is stable and secure in N. Korea, as was everyone in pre-capitalist China and Russia.
Market economy carries an inherent risk, where some win some lose. Jobs growth guarantees nothing while giving people more OPPORTUNITY to cross over to the winner side.
Will everyone succeed in using this opportunity? I hope not. Without losers there will be no winners, and without winners there will be no America the greatest, and America not the greatest ain't no America at all.
4
It's getting so every month I feel like the "jobs report police."
So, let's look underneath the hood of this jobs report...
The 266,000 jobs added in November include some 40,000 UAW folks who went back to work after being on strike. It also includes plenty of holiday hiring.
So...it's really not so great.
Also, wage increases were less than in previous months. In other words, wage increases were even smaller than the very incremental wage increases...of the last 9 years.
Anyone who believes our economy is healthy is fooling themselves. It may be healthy for the upper middle class and upper class and the infamous 1%...
...but not for the real folks who make up the vast majority of this country.
There are are still millions of Americans in low paying jobs, or trying to hold down multiple jobs, who had better jobs some 10 years ago. There are millions of Americans working the the inappropriately named "gig economy," who are one or two steps away from financial insolvency.
("Gig economy" is a hip, marketing and branding term to make you think it is cool to not have steady work with benefits.)
There are millions of Americans who's standard of living is significantly less than pre-great recession, who will likely never recover that standard of living...ever.
This is the reality. It would be helpful if we recognized, accepted, and embraced it...so we could get on with the business of working on productive measures to mitigate it.
549
@Kelly Grace Smith if Congress gets working on USMCA, instead of partisan political stuff, things could improve. They expect it will be very good for farmers, and directly contribute to the creation of 200,000 manufacturing sector jobs with good wages.
18
@Kelly Grace Smith
Excellent analysis.
A report such as this, with all its market-moving and political potential, is of course supposed to be strictly non-partisan and not influenced by an Administration. But by now would any of us put it past the Trump Administration to figure some way to massage or falsify data?
Not saying it happened, but wouldn't rule anything out by now either.
60
@Kelly Grace Smith I couldn't agree with you more. Why does the media focus on added jobs as the (almost) sole barometer of economic health in headlines...I'm happy to live in a capitalist society, don't get me wrong. But why is growth only focused on for this barometer so heavily? Why don't real wage decreases make the financial front pages?
82
This admin has a history of lying. Cant wait to see what the "revised" job numbers are in a few months. If memory serves me correct the Bureau of Labor revised DOWN 500,000 jobs created (revised in August 2019)from their 2018 - early 2019 reports. Yet, some people gobble these figures up. SMH, some never learn.
1
The Trump economy just blows away the Obama economy by every measure. Hopefully, this will mean that liberal economic policies will never again see the light of day.
4
so how many gig jobs are now being counted, but never truly generate much income by the ons signing up...for these jobs...?
once again the jobs report lacks details.
1
It doesn't tell you about all the workers who lost their jobs because of the trade war. There are two sides to that story. Common sense tells me that with Christmas approaching there is a demand for more school kids working during their holiday break as shop assistants, part time, until after Christmas holiday period. Governments can get very sneaky when it comes to employment statistics. Maybe they just denied the unemployed benefits so those people are not officially looking for work because they are not on the government books and are relying on friends and family to support them.
Also, you need to look at whether border control is creating the demand and illegals are not available for the jobs so all the employers employing slave labour illegals, now have to become legal taxpaying employers, and employ USA legal citizens.
Lots of different scenarios could have caused this. All I know is that the rest of the world is expecting a crash soon, from what I've read in NZ online media. And these people are experts in their predictions as well. Have a merry Christmas anyway! And don't worry about stuff you have no control over!
1
Until the bulk of newly-created jobs are full-time positions with benefits, these numbers are misleading and meaningless. Same as it ever was.
6
That 266,000 dishonestly includes 41,000 already existing jobs the the dishonest Trump administration did not deduct from a previous month’s report. Jus another example of why no report from the Trump administration is to be believed.
5
Wondering if there is some amount of creative accounting going on? Given significant decline in workers from overseas coming to the US, who is taking these new jobs? The reason I ask is that if you add up all the stated job growth, it runs into the millions over the past couple of years.
2
The real swing voters are folks with stocks, not a bunch of obscure voters in rural Michigan or Iowa.
Barring moral outrage, these are people whose lives are completely unaffected by Trump but many of whom are ashamed to even say out loud they voted for him.
If this keeps going, Trump will be re-elected.
2
Ah yes, 266,000 minimum wage jobs. Fantastic.
3
This is a devastating bodyblow to Democrats and the media.
And to add insult to injury, the stock market is again going through the roof.
6
@JQGALT
'And to add insult to injury, the stock market is again going through the roof.'
Today. Gets us back to almost even for the week.
2
@sheikyerbouti
Silver linings, right?
1
The problem with wealth concentration continues. As people move into jobs which that don't raise them out of living form hand to mouth.
3
Funny, left wingers were claiming a recession was just around the corner, just like there's Russians underneath everyone's bed.
6
Judging employment by how many jobs increased without discussing the quality of those jobs is like judging the economy by how well Wall Street is doing. More low paying jobs don’t raise anyone except the rich people under paying employees to assist their profit margin.
5
Our economy continues to perform well in spite of Donald Trump. There isn't one thing we can point to that he's done that's been good for the economy. Tariffs and a lack of business investment still can't slow Obama's incredible legacy. We can look at Obama and see exactly what he did, how he brought us back from a 10% unemployment rate, banks that weren't lending and a stalled economy. In 2016 economists griped that Obama's economy wasn't growing fast enough on an annual basis. Naturally, as is the luck of Democrats, the biggest liar in America came along, won the 2016 election and now takes credit for the great economy left to him by Obama. That was bad luck for America, as Republicans passed the most disgusting tax cuts in our history, all under the pretext of stimulating the economy (it didn't) and, of course, it would pay for itself (it hasn't). Is America unlucky enough to reelect Trump? I don't know, but we will pay dearly if we do. The income equality gap is only getting wider. A vote for a Republican is a vote against yourself, unless you're in the top 1% of income in America.
122
@Aurora
A very, very old song. Bush - bad economy, Obama - good (because Bush's was bad); Clinton - good economy, because... well, he's a Democrat, which makes everything not only right but also good. There's a term for it in psychiatry.
Pro-business policies help business. What a blasphemous idea!
Here's the hard truth. If liberals were honest (impossible, i know), they would have admitted that:
they would rather see America's power decline than the President and GOP succeed.
8
@Aurora
This jobs report is really good news.
I wonder, @Aurora: Am I the only one out there beginning to contemplate for the first time simply voting, through all the partisan haze and din, my proverbial "pocketbook" in the 2020 election?
We're told Trump is only riding an economy set up by Obama and stealing unearned credit for it.
But it is not true. I remember Obama saying we must get used to at best 1% growth as the new norm in the modern world. That talk of fixing an economy is just "magic wand" demagoguery.
My generally quite well-off and comfortable progressive friends are at best ambivalent about economic growth. Indeed, most are against it.
I watch them clasp to their bosoms with a bewildering emotional force that is almost frightening in intensity the rage of the self-professed dream-berobbed young economist Greta Thunberg:
"We are in the beginning of a mass extinction, and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth. How dare you!"
This, while I remember Obama discouraging and flat-out shutting down various economic sectors that are now opened and flourishing under Trump policies, bringing happiness prosperity and meaning to countless blighted lives and regions.
Trump/Pence 2020? I dunno. Maybe best.
2
@Aurora I wish that you would see through your hatred of good news during the time of Trump. I am a registered, lifelong Democrat but in no way is this booming economy the product of Obama’s policies.
3
There are many people who have given up on finding work. Time for a GREEN NEW DEAL!
1
Facts:
Lowest unemployment in history for Blacks and Hispanics. With two recent polls showing 34% support of Blacks for Trump.
7
@Dr. John
https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000006
A trend that started in the second year of Obama's term. How do you attribute that to anything Trump has done.
1
Boy, you guys sure like saying “blacks,” and citing Rasmussen, don’t ya?
By the way, there’s a reason Nate Silver rates Raz as “C ” polling, you know.
1
After 3 years of lies upon lies and manipulation of government agencies by the WH, is it possible to believe any report by this administration? I certainly do not.
It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
1
"At every level of employment, it’s been super tight,” said Yvonne Rockwell, owner of an Express Employment Professionals agency in Santa Clarita, Calif. “I truly believe that anybody who wants to work is working.”
False.
1
266,000 Americans get to raise their carbon footprint Jane and Greta.
2
"It's the economy, stupid."
So people should only vote for Democrats for president? After all, GDP growth and job creation have historically been 138% better and 80% better, respectively, under Democratic administrations. And that's not cherry-picked data. That's the full series to date since the inception of official data for each (1930 and 1939, respectively).
The comments here are a mirror image of those made in the WSJ during the Obama years.
1. Don’t trust the data. The numbers are cooked to help the administration.
2. The economy only added low paying jobs.
3. It’s a seasonal bump.
Guess what this is a good jobs report. For the time being the economy is doing well. I absolutely despise Trump and will vote for anyone running against him. But what exactly is the Democrats economic message?
2
Economic and job growth were already improving BEFORE Trump got into office. NOTHING to do with Trump. He just got lucky.
Trump hasn't done anything to improve the economy. Ask the farmers who are going bankrupt in record numbers due to the trade war with China.
3
Sick of the reliance on mere job headcounts. It's a pretty worthless metric for real, deep growth. Of little use without a deep dive into the where - geographically, job type, and the demographics most effected.
No president should be taking much credit for these upticks.
And that wages remain flat at best, while the costs of living across the boards keeping climbing and climbing, the under $1K, someone making $30K might have seen, is not truly being felt as meaningful.
The facts on the ground for most Americans continue to be ignored by not only this WH and Congress, but more importantly employers. sooner or later its gonna catch up to them. I'm guessing sooner...
7
NYT just ran an article about the old GM plant that now houses an Amazon distribution facility. It notes that a generation ago, wages at the plant under GM were upwards of $35 to $40 an hour by today's standards, with unionized workers taking home the equivalent of which would be up to 6-figure salaries. Currently, in that same warehouse, a non-unionized workforce is making $15 an hour and their employment is monitored by an Amazon AI that can fire them at any time. Heralding low unemployment numbers without wage growth is a Trojan Horse PR strategy inside of which are record low wages (adjusted for inflation and housing costs) and corporate CEO's taking home a larger slice of their company's wealth than ever before. But we shoulda knew it was a fake-out when Trump bragged about it as an accomplishment. Remember, this growth is coming from the GOP tax bill scam. Such profligate liars could never help anyone but themselves except by accident. Unionize these workers and raise their wages which haven't seen a meaningful increase since the 1970s. You can't juice the economy by lining the pockets of CEOs without raising wages for the middle class and call our economy a success. You can't gaslight the people forever—they are catching on and coming for what they're owed.
5
@Jordan So now that GM and the other auto suppliers are paying 6 figure incomes to laborers anymore, have those savings gone into the pockets of the consumers in the form of lower car prices?
So what is better for the country, one business owner making 10 million per year or one making 8 million and 20 more workers making 6 figures? I know it isn't that simple, but all of that saved money in labor hasn't helped the average American.
1
@Rob that why the GM plant isn’t there anymore....labor was too expensive
The tax cuts worked.
Voters vote with their pocketbooks
Trump will be Re-elected
6
@Paul Ha ha ha ha. You're kidding, right? We are heading for an epic collapse because of those cuts.
4
@Paul hilarious!
The tax cuts worked for billionaires. That’s about it. Facts matter
3
@Paul nice tax cuts for corporations and wealthy people, a lot of cheap labor receiving few benefits a good economy does not make! What it does make is a third world country with a few rich people at the very top and numerous servants at the bottom who can't afford an education and healthcare and increasingly, housing. If Americans re-elect Trump believing all the lies, this country is definitely doomed and those members of the working class and small farmers that voted for him will suffer the most!
"Still, despite the low unemployment rate, stable, secure jobs that pay a middle-income wage can be hard to find across a range of skills."
The above comment is the fly in Mr. Trump's ointment of, "It's the economy stupid," which it is and ours is racing to the bottom with less and less jobs that helped to make this country great. Not Mr. Trump's fault by any stretch but he is continuing the redistribution of wealth from the majority to the capital class. Some business owners banner year notwithstanding, the vast majority of our lots have not changed. Companies racing to keep up with Amazon's $15 an hour rate? $15 and hour is not a living wage, it is a barely surviving wage that would most likely qualify you for food stamps and Medicaid. This is not making us great again.
3
Medicare For All, free college, free healthcare for undocumented immigrants, and stopping fracking for oil and gas would all really help our economy.
5
What is especially interesting here?
What is noteworthy?
The relative large number of NYT readers now making very positive comments about our tremendous economy and expressing support for President Trump.
On the NYT of all places.
Something has changed - a spreading sentiment that reflects very well for the future of our country.
Amazing.
4
All these jobs, and yet unemployed Trump supporters still spend all day posting on the internet. How can this be?
3
@Dr John
I thinks it's the Russians infiltrating our readership.
@Cousin
You make Trump’s re-election so very easy.
As others have said, seasonal jobs that will end when the new year rolls in. How many of these jobs are held by people working several jobs. Trump did not bring this about. Impeach now!
1
It's good that there are plenty of jobs. You will need at least two of them to make a living.
11
How many? 266K? Why not 366? Or a million? These are more alternate facts from Trump's regime which have zero credibility.
3
I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but can we trust these numbers coming from DOL Secretary Scalia or DOC secretary Ross?
4
Wait for the adjusted numbers to come in later, on page 37.
When highly educated professionals can only find temporary jobs, the Dept of Labor is deceiving this country regarding employment statistics.
What is never counted--and, I admit, is impossible to gauge-- is the volume of resumes being sent by desperate people who are about to lose their temporary jobs. And we all know it's easier to find a new position while continuing to work at the job that is about to end.
Too bad we cannot know the statistics. Maybe human resources directors need to report the several thousand resumes they receive weekly from desperate working and non-working people at every level and in every occupation.
The real statistics would make us sick and sad.
18
All I can say is "wow". It such a pleasure that 96.5% of our fellow Americans of all races, national origins, religions and sexual orientations looking for jobs have jobs and the dignity of labor. I am sure that many may not be having their dream jobs but life with some job is better than no job. Americans are truly fortunate considering the rest of the world does not have a healthy economy that is conducive to a business friendly environment for job creation. One can only hope that this state of our union for the sake of our nation continues for a long time even if some of us may be going through difficult times.
6
I like your sarcasm
1
Just trying to square this glowing jobs report with my actual experiences. I have been shopping in mid-level stores and have found no (zero) clerks on the floor. Check-out stands are few and far between. Some have no one behind the counter. Some have one or two people working with customer lines as long as 15 persons. Then let's turn to "customer support" lines for questions about anything from a utility bill to insurance information, to making airline reservations. Wait times are up to 30 minutes, the person you reach is frequently off-shore and reads from a script. Businesses are not spending on hiring anyone that I can see.
8
@Practical Realities Or maybe the labor market is so tight that retailers are struggling to hire people at minimum wage.
5
@Will
Unless we are at 100% employment with jobs that are not part-time, I don't think so. And certainly the off-shore phone centers are doing nothing for US employment.
Jobs are good. Not sure POTUS from either party makes a difference but voters will reward GOP.
2
What happens to those numbers if we don’t count jobs that pay so low that employees still rely on government assistance or work 3 jobs at a time? Adding 10 jobs is not significant if they collectively only pay 3 living salaries.
12
Wow, great; the country's working even harder to barely survive while a small percentage become absurdly wealthy through the exploitation of low wages.
19
@Al And stock buy backs and tax cuts.
I continue to suspect that one reason the unemployment rate seems so low is that some and indeed maybe many immigrants (legal as well as illegal) are simply not being counted -- by their own choice. They are scared of being thrown out of the country if they even admit they are looking for work, so when the person from the Bureau of Labor Statistics comes calling, they don't answer the door or the phone or else they lie and say they have a job but are staying home because they have a cold. Maybe this is just paranoid of me but it certainly helps to explain why wage growth is so sluggish -- employers always know they can find workers who will work without offering increased pay.
2
More than half the work-force is working three jobs with few benefits. This is nothing to celebrate.
17
@steveconn Over 50% of the workforce is working 3 jobs? Might be the most absurd and fact-free post in history...
1
Thank you President Obama for your incredible engine of the economy still chugging along DESPITE the efforts of this current administration to gut the working people. And thank you, President Obama for having the class and grace to keep above the fray. The dog and pony show will end, and we will see what the truth really is. Sadly the next term will be tough for whomever occupies the WH.
17
The quality of the jobs matters. Right now if 2 McJobs in Queens are added and 1 secretary job in Manhattan is removed, the number is still +1. But the secretary job earns more than the 2 McJobs combined (sorry if my use of "McJob" dates me. Should I use "ubering" instead?)
The top 3 categories are education/health at 74,000, manufacturing at 54,000, and leisure/hospitality at 45,000. Of that education/health and leisure/hospitality are generally low-paying. And manufacture is skewed by the GM numbers.
Of the next 5 categories, transportation/warehousing at 15,500 is generally low-paying. The other 4 are wider ranging with professional service at 38,000, finance at 13,000, information at 13,000, and government at 12,000.
So of the 266,000 jobs, 17% don't count, 50% are generally low-paying, and only 28% actually pay decent wages or higher.
Also if the payroll number of 266,000 jobs really were a "blockbuster", then why are stock prices rallying just 1%? I mean, +1% is good, but not blockbuster. So either the numbers aren't that great or share prices are richly valued and thus not representative of the economy.
18
@William Fang
In the lingo of your era, your info above is “modern math”.
266,000 more people get a pay check and earn their respect and self esteem in their world.
A President cannot give a better Christmas gift to his people.
Thank you Mr. President for making good on the trust of 63 million who voted for you.
18
@Bhaskar The gift the Republicans and Trump have given you is a trillion dollar deficit. So every man, woman and child in the country just took on another $3000 in debt, and a large percentage of those can't ever afford to pay that back, much less the $60 K that they already owe in government debt.
Can you imagine if the deficit was that high and the economy wasn't growing? Do you think that we can go on like this forever?
25
News flash, Bhaskar: Trump ain’t my daddy and Americans have never been, and let’s hope will never be, a President’s “people.”
Thanks for the monarchist fantasy, though.
7
Well, he could stop defending and mainstreaming white supremacists, especially his supporters who massacre Americans in their churches, synagogues and Walmart’s, but clearly he doesn’t want to alienate the vast majority of his supporters.
6
I’m an Independent (my vote will matter a lot in 2020) and look at the economic numbers quite approvingly. Then I look at the left and see them wishing for a recession and furiously working to impeach Trump!
Hmm, the Democrats are really out of touch!
20
Ever occur to you to wonder what this “prosperity,” is actually based on, or what happens after it fades, or whether we’re preparing in any way at all for the future, or what this particular type of prosperity is doing to the people in this country?
No? Thought not.
21
@George If you judge everything on economic growth and fail to consider the damage done to our country in most other matters - deregulation, tree cutting, drilling, etc. as well as slowly damaging our democracy, then you should be happy. I am not.
5
@George If there is a great recession you can thank Trump for messing up the world's economy. As the Us goes down, most of the other countries will go down with us. Our $22 trillion federal debt was financed partially by other countries. Who do you think will want to do business with someone who cannot pay off their debt. Yes, there may be a recession just like in past years when we had a Republican president. Guess who had to put us back on track, a Democrat. Facts hurt, don't they.
8
I cannot stand Donald Trump as our President, but these are the best economic numbers I have seen in my 60 plus years. The economy even with a microscopic 3.5% unemployment rate is still producing a ton of new jobs, and inflation is less than 2% with a annual wage growth rate of 3.0% over the past two years.
Seriously, what is going on? I learned in business school that a nonexistent unemployment rate combined with solid job and wage growth and low inflation is not remotely possible. It's like saying that 2+2+2=222, not 6. Yet, here we are. Don't anyone ever try and tell me that we are not living in a new normal.
8
Basically, we’re on several spending sprees: we’re financing all this not just on an expanded national debt, and not just on eating what we should be setting aside for the rainy days, and not just on chewing through anything for retirements, and not just on total failure to even think about the $4 trillion we need to spend on infrastructure, and not just on the backs of our poor and drug addicted and insane, and not just with the fragmentation of communities and the declines in public health and the rise of mass shootings, but on ignoring the simplest things about the way we’re eating the planet like an apple.
Or to advert to Hizzoner, we’re spending like drunken sailors on leave, and figuring we’ll be way down the road when the bills come due.
15
@SparkyTheWonderPup I just have to ask about inflation--I know the process of calculating it doesn't bear much relationship to everyday consumer experience, but where I live a lot of basic expenses have increased a great deal. Talking about utilities (not cost per therm, but customer cost, not variable); housing; clothing; and food (the turkey was the same, everything else was up). As the economy "heats up" this happens. If your pay didn't "heat up" accordingly, you are behind.
1
In New York City, and probably a lot of other places,inflation is unchecked. Income insufficiency and homelessness is growing.
8
I do not understand why unemployment is low yet it feels that there are record number of homeless and displaced families in shelters. San Jose, San Diego, Seattle, Los Angeles, New York, San Fransisco all in crisis—and while I know not all homeless are unemployed and while not all unemployed are homeless (and let's not even touch upon the cost of housing outpacing wages, addiction, and untreated mental illness)—the numbers just do not square.
I can only surmise that people without a permanent residence or who are not actively seeking work are invisible to the Bureau of Labor.
A fairer accounting of unemployment would be to count all people against the numbers. Include the homeless and transient, as well those collecting SSI—all of which are interconnected and affect the health of our working economy.
9
None of those new jobs pay a living wage. If you’re working 25 hours a week for $8/hour, you’re legally “employed”, but can’t afford rent anywhere in the country.
5
There are 1.2 MILLION people who are probably wondering where all these jobs are. That's the number of people who have been unemployed for 27 weeks or more, according to the report. And there are at least 325,000 people who don't believe there are any jobs for them.
8
It would be great if the media would actually analyze the data, not just the top sheet summaries.
The jobs report has always been a funny marker about the health of the nation. But, these pass few years has been even more suspect. In previous administrations the labor participation rates, unemployment rate and jobs usually fluctuate it's normal.
Under the Trump administration unemployment has been pegged at 3.5% the same as the tail end of the Obama administration. The participation rate hovers at 63%. Here's where things get weird. We know from independent reporting of large factory closures in manufacturing. Layoffs in mining have been steadily rising despite subsidies, farming bankruptcies are on the rise (not in the report).
The report itself indicated 100,000+ job losses last month. But, the participation rate didn't change, with 266.000 were added. In typical cycles you'll see participation fluctuate with older workers leaving the workforce, people dropping out of looking for work and "gig" workers. None of this appears in these reports.
266,000 jobs in warehousing, transportation, healthcare and finance, means manufacturing isn't coming back. The average wage increase was 7 cents hardly a middle class economic boom.
Meanwhile the 1% and large corporations paid little to no taxes last year. Meaning that $1 trillion added borrowing is shouldered by the average worker (with a 7 cent wage increase)
It would be great if journalist would provide better analysis.
14
Its called seasonal hiring into temporary, low wage jobs! And the 3.5% unemployment rate is misleading at best, we all know this @nyt! Wake up! This is the last thing you needed to lead with. Stop enabling please.
28
@Simon K Tetlow
So only report positive news if it helps the Democrats ?
That's an insane position to take and a complete violation of the notion of a free press.
5
@Norville T. Johnstone Not at all, qualify the 'positive' news, scrutinize it, make more relevant comparisons to same time last year, not last month. And I, as many of the comments I read through seem to indicate of others, do not for a minute trust the 'numbers' offered by this administration....And are you referencing the 'enemy of the people' free press?
2
I am waiting for the part when he calls the Labor department the deep state.
1
Continuation of expansion begun under Obama. You called the numbers fake in 2015. Cant have it both ways.
11
@scott dude, we are three years into trump. This is not Obama, its because of Trump. He owns it. give credit where credit is due.
3
Yes, and a teacher somewhere is working three of them.
18
To claim that job numbers in a gig economy equate with prosperity for alway is as spurious as equating GDP and “ growth” with a nation ascending: quite the contrary our nation may be “ booming” but our standard of living has gone down for fifty years. The German approach is so much better, they equate a good economy with a happy citizenry and high standard of living. Additionally your opinion that low interest rates are good is equally idiotic, low interest rates do nothing but push people into bad investments seeking yield and will surely come back to bite us at some point. Thirdly your suggestion the rate of inflation is low is absurd when you take into consideration asset inflation at all levels and the ridiculous way inflation is measured by the so called beige book metrics which is so easily scammed as to be useless, they can do anything they want with those numbers.
7
The bottom line is this president has delivered the best economy imaginable. And democrats want to impeach him!
17
@M - you do have a very vivid imagination. He's delivered nothing. This is grasping at straws on your part, as retail usually hires more during the holiday season.
7
@M Obama delivered is what history says, Trump is doing his best to reverse that.
And you DON'T want to impeach an abusive, dishonest, irresponsible man who has repeatedly abused his authority for his own personal and political gain? Isn't that what our founding fathers created the impeachment process for?
2
Thanks, Trump and team.
17
Yeah, he is doing well, this president of yours. Sadly enough many of you will get drowned in the coming times. Many will be blown away by the storms from the new normal. And my country is easy below sea level. Get him impeached. Thanks from me...
5
@Loudspeaker
So now climate change is Trump’s fault? How convenient.
2
May I hope for a piece from the Editorial board of The Times to comment on this? The relationship, or lack thereof, of these results to the tax regime, presence or absence of billionaires and ultimately the economic program of this terrible Trump Administration. Comments from Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Professor Krugman would also help to understand the real drivers of our economy.
3
These job numbers are very strong, although wage growth has been much higher in the late stages on previous economic cycles. There are two factors present that have boosted economic growth for so long: 1) The budget deficit for the past 12 months was $1.018T, significantly greater than the growth of the economy; 2) There are negative real interest rates across the yield curve except at the longest maturity. Under such fiscal and monetary stimulus, why wouldn't the economy continue to grow and create jobs? The worldwide lack of inflation has enabled the Fed and other central banks to keep interest rates extraordinarily low. Also, there are no political constraints to the growth in the budget deficit as long as there is a Republican president. Interestingly, the tax cuts have not stimulated business investment (as predicted) and tariffs and de-regulation have not stimulated manufacturing, as evidenced by the fourth consecutive month of contraction (reported on Monday).
4
These are seasonal jobs and compared to last year it looks like there are fewer than same period last year.
6
RECORD SETTING NUMBERS! Boom the economy. RECORD WAGE GAINS for the middle class. My god, the hatred and intellectually dishonesty of the left is staggering. How about saying, wow, great numbers instead of lying about other nonsense. HEY, for the record, Adam shcitt lied https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doubts-raised-after-schiff-claims-phone-records-prove-giulianis-white-house-budget-office-calls
15
@Alan
He didn’t lie. He was just pitching ideas for a novel about a fictitious president who actually took some time out of his busy day running the country to give two figs about Hunter Biden and Ukraine...
Have a look at this link: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/private-sector-job-growth-slows-down-in-november---adp-2019-12-04
When compared to the government's employment numbers (266,000), ADP's figures (67,000) show a wide discrepancy in new jobs added.
What gives?
1
Imagine how well we would be doing if everyone in Washington was pulling on the same end of the rope.
14
I know, right? It’s astonishing, really, how many people don’t want to associate with the white power mob who supports this president. Trump supporters do, of course, but decent people don’t.
1
Must be hard waking up and knowing the American economy is the best in the world. And it is at its strongest point.
Trump is a buffoon but business knows he won't touch them.
9
Why do you even report these bogus preliminary numbers? They are ALWAYS revised dramatically downwards next quarter. You know that.
And then you barely cover the revision with the real numbers.
Your coverage is opposite what it should be.
This should be treated as an UNCONFIRMED preliminary estimate.
Then report the REAL, Revised numbers as the real thing, with the big headline.
You are being played, NYT. By every administration, not just this one.
It’s stupid.
6
As long as the ending remains strong Trump will win in a landslide. The Dems know this and that's why they are moving on impeachment despite knowing that Trump will certainly be acquited by the Senate. Not one Dem frontrunner can win in the swing states in the general election. Everyone knows this. Unfortunately for the Dems, impeachment w8ll only motivate Trump's base to stand against the Dem led coup.
12
@MJG You're all talk. More Americans are in favor of impeachment than against, and the anti-Trump people are even more motivated to get out and vote than the pro-Trump people. It will be a landslide, that part I agree on. Just with a Democratic victor.
2
@Michael Huge: Parts of the country won't even consider a prochoice, pro gun control candidate. Throw in Dem socialism vs capitalism and a roaring economy, and you get an Electoral College landslide. I honestly don't understand how anyone could see it any other way. People care about their 401Ks, not shenanigans in Ukraine.
1
So what's Trump's plan for when the economy inevitably does begin drifting south? Blame the Fed? The Democrats? Obama? The press? Or just deny that it's happening? He can't keep on borrowing against the national debt. He can't keep giving billionaires more tax cuts. He's run out of ways to lift restrictions on business that will pump more toxins into our air and water. So what's the plan?
12
When we guarantee healthcare for our citizens like the rest of the civilized world, I'll get my pom poms out when retail and warehouse job numbers come in better than expected.
8
@SteveH
You will never allow the taxes on everyone - even the poor - these other countries levy on their citizens for healthcare.
For example no country provides free Medicaid for 20% of their populations.
Everyone pays.
7
@Dr. John thank you so much for pointing this out. 22% VAT in Europe (on average) 21% in Canada. EVERYONE pays. here, not so much.
5
I'll take that bet. My wife is Danish, I've seen their country and we speak to friends there. We're discussing taking a 4 year vacation if the cult of Trump wins again.
1
It is ironic that the guy who is still trying to meet his career goal of finding more permanent employment is working as a career coach.
1
@Kim
Thought the same thing.
I wonder how many of these jobs are like the one I acquired this past month. I picked up a second job as a nanny. After my 8 hour office job, I now watch two children for four hours. I should have enough now to pay rent and eat without having to call a family member for help.
18
Look at the BLS' Table B-1a. "Employees on nonfarm payrolls by industry sector and selected industry detail, seasonally adjusted"
Year over year we added 75,000 jobs in manufacturing. an increase of 0.6%
Year over year we lost 10,000 jobs in mining, because coal ain't back.
And year over year, we added 567,000 jobs (an increase of 3%) in health care and social assistance, because America is getting older and sicker.
Over 1 in 4 new jobs are health care jobs. That isn't sustainable. And it's only possible because a one trillion dollar deficit pays for it.
And the 3.1% increase in wages? Well, if 21 states increase the minimum wage every year by about 5%, that's going to happen. Especially since so many of the new jobs are minimum wage paying wheelchair pushers and nursing home kitchen aides.
11
@Paul’52
You are absolutely correct about where most of our wage gains are coming from: minimum wage increases.
5
With all this great economic news, no wonder the Democrats would prefer to focus the public;s attention on impeachment.
I heard on CNBC this morning that Trump's approval rating among Afro-American males is in the mid 30% range. I am sure the employment situation has something to do with that.
Absent a unified pro-Democratic Afro-American electorate next year, the Democrats will have a rough election.
11
@RM
I thought that you were being facetious at first, so you think the hollowing out of stable, good paying jobs in exchange for many more part time minimum jobs is good thing? As for pro Trump African Americans, they have their right to be just as wrong as white Americans.
Something smells here. Wouldn't be surprised if Trump has his flunkies doing some creative accounting to make the jobs report look better. I'm not seeing this jobs boom at all except for the guys bagging groceries. Fake news from the King of Fake News
7
You mean because the government has had to repeatedly be revised to correct that there were fewer jobs added than had been initially reported M like the articles back in August saying there were 501,000 fewer jobs created between April 2018 and March 2019? This administration lies about everything and the labor market and economy are no exceptions.
1
"Strong November Jobs Report Counters Anxieties Over Weakening Economy"
.....and liberals wishing for a recession.
8
@Free Markets
Wishing for more stable middle class jobs expansion of low wage jobs is not "winning." BTW, if you think that any one person, even the POTUS, is directly responsible for the economy, well I would just say to reconsider that thought.
2
The most favored “Readers Picks” are all desperate contortions to put a negative spin on this good news.
Little wonder that conservatives are happier than liberals.
13
It's just hysterical, all the comments from Trump fudging the books to these aren't real jobs to it was due to Obama.
Trump came in slashed taxes, companies gave raises and bonuses (the next day), eliminated growth killing regulations and this is the result.
The democrats will need to double down and fabricate a new conspiracy quickly because impeachment isn't going to work.
It's about the economy stupid.
12
Yeah, quick lets impeach the best job producing President the United States ever had, right after he straightens out those European wimps. Yeah, that will fix US (pun intended) .
BTW, while we are at it, lets wait for the wall to be completed too.
7
I am happy to see this news. we (the US economy) seems to be on a good trajectory over the last 10 years. My hope is that our shaky international trade relations don't disrupt that.
4
Yes - and what kind of jobs are they? Does it reflect people who are taking low paying 2nd and 3rd jobs just to feed their kids?
Even a good-paying job does not account for the deterioration in the standard of living. Higher health care, rising student debt . . .
. you know the rest. When are we going to get some realistic numbers?
9
@Elaine Winters low paying 2nd and 3rd jobs were the norm under the Obama administration. With the Trump administration, the Sky's the limit.
4
@Elaine Winters
Drive over to booming Hillsboro Oregon.
Look at the new construction, expansion of existing firms, the state of new businesses.
Jobs across all levels of quals and salary levels.
It’s simply incredible.
1
@Brasto During the Obama administration the county was recovering from a massive recession - not really a good comparison.
But this number includes the autoworkers who were previously employed and, therefore, do not constitute new jobs.
5
The numbers speak for themselves. No hearsay. No innuendo or presumption here:
November jobs report is
✅
266K jobs created
✅
54K new manufacturing jobs
✅
50-year low unemployment: 3.5%
✅
Wages up 3.1% over the last year
Now over 7 MILLION new jobs since Trump was elected!
19
@P&L
Job creation slowed under Trump. Obama created 7.7 million jobs in his last 34 months vs. 6.1 million in Trump’s first 34.
Unemployment rate improving since 2010, with Obama taking it down from 10.0% to 4.7% before Trump took office.
Real wages grew 1.7% in 2015-2016 under Obama, vs. 0.5% in 2017-2018 under Trump. Trump is having a good 2019, with real wage growth of 1.4%. The nominal figures have little relevance.
Manufacturing employment is up only 56k for all of 2019. It was up only 2k as of last month. It grew nearly 250k last year.
Please analyze the figures before you post propaganda.
8
@David Doney Did you miss the 80% of this article that was discussing the capacity constraints on employment growth?
The reason why the continued job gains are so astounding is that they have drawn more people who have been disenfranchised back into the labour force - an unequivocally good thing. Comparing this to the post-recession Obama recovery (which was great, by the way) is disingenuous.
2
@David Doney
That's great.
Obama did a good job and so did Trump aren't we so lucky. Thank you for the input. Keep up the good work.
Jobs are always added this time of year due to the holidays, most part-time or temporary, without benefits. Many will be gone after the holidays unfortunately.
There is a definite increase on prices for goods, everywhere, especially the grocery stores, while wages are stagnant. A part-time job does not assure financial security for the long term.
Trump and the Republicans have no reason to celebrate.
6
I wonder if the gig economy did not exist, if the unemployment rate would be the same.
At my end, with a good paying job, i still can’t afford college for my kids without breaking the bank, i am paying a lot more out of pocket health care costs than ever before (same employer, same insurance for the last 6 years), changing my 11 year old car because any regular middle class car is a lot more expensive than three years ago, and forget about my retirement, which according to financial advisors, i would have to wait until age 109 to retire. But sure, we are well and prosper according to the metrics.
9
Total unemployed is slightly below 6M. Total on SS disability is wee over 12M. In 1970 total on SS disability was 2M.
Numerous reports have confirmed those pushed out of manufacturing or construction end up on SS disability not because they are unable to do any type of work but that they are not trained for anything else.
Unemployment rate is not representative of reality and should include a portion of the SS disability total.
5
These jobs reports seem inexplicable to me. I’m not sure they truly reflect the average workers’ experience, quality of life or feeling of prosperity or security. What about rising health costs, rising housing/food/education/consumer goods, quality of work for everyone at every level, availability of other benefits such as reasonable vacation and paid leave for new parents, taking care of older parents, etc.? I know you need to publish the findings of the report, but can you do a follow up with some analysis if there is indeed a significant disconnect between what experts trumpet that this report means and what the average U.S. worker is truly experiencing?
7
@DeeDee Schroeder
"These jobs reports seem inexplicable to me. "
Why does America being great disturb you?
4
Great news. Now that businesses are doing so wonderfully and hiring thereby demonstrating that the economy is in such great shape, the nation can begin rebuilding the woeful infrastructure of the country, shore up Social Security, improve education and healthcare, and pay down the debt.
8
While the jobs report may ease fears of a recession, it raises fears of Trump getting reelected.
8
So someone explain to me how these numbers have nothing to do with the President’s policies of deregulation and economic nationalism
...and are really a result of the Democratic candidates’ promises of higher taxes, socialism, open borders, and banning fossil fuels....
12
@Greg Brilliant observation
3
It’s not really “economic nationalism,” it’s white nationalism, and that’s the reason Trump supporters love him. At least be honest about that.
2
You know how its easy not to feel god about this report? Because its the holiday, and that means seasonal work. Which means no benefits, and lay-offs in January.
But really, its just more of this under-employment conversation. Combined with employer responsibility for insurance, and its no wonder that no one gets hired at 40 hours a week. And surely this impacts wage growth--all of these junk 18 hour a week jobs. Because the are hourly.
These reports are for portfolio holders. Not working types.
15
According to recent polls, the top priorities for voters in the next election are healthcare, immigration and the economy. In the 3 years Trump has been president, neither he nor the Democrats have done much for healthcare other than lip service. As for immigration, the majority of voters want not only a wall but stricter immigration laws. There, Trump wins handily over the Democrats. And, no, Obama did not lay the groundwork for the current economy. Trump did with tax cuts and elimination of anti-business regulations. At least that's the consensus of most reputable economists. The greatest accomplishment of the Democrats is impeachment, which is not high in importance for most Democrats and obviously low for Republicans. And, most swing state voters on both sides are against it. The net-net? Trump will be re-elected and the House will reverse course with a substantial House gain.
5
The Obama Boom continues, with higher debt levels used to maintain the expansion:
1. Obama created 7.7 million jobs in his last 34 months, vs. 6.1 million for Trump. Monthly job creation was 227,000 on average for Obama in that time, vs. 178,000 for Trump.
2. Total number of persons with jobs has been setting records since May 2014.
3. Obama was reducing the budget deficit in his second term, while Trump has increased the deficits in 2018 and 2019 by about 60% relative to continuation of Obama policy. This has helped hide damage due to pointless trade wars, while increasing the national debt relative to better policy.
4. Stock market up 44% at this point in Obama Presidency vs. 38% for Trump.
5. The unemployment rate has been improving since 2010, falling from 10% peak under Obama to 4.7% when Trump took office. It has since fallen to 3.5%. Using a football analogy, Obama moved the ball 53 yards vs. Trump’s 12 yards.
6. Real GDP growth averaged 2.6% in Trump’s first 11 quarters...the same as Obama’s last 11.
Debt for expansion continuation...let’s hope we can sustain it.
13
@David Doney
I knew someone would try to credit Obama.
Here's the question to obliterate that claim:
What policy of Obama's is most responsible for the economic boom?
Hint: It's a trick question, there is no honest answer.
7
@George Orwell
No trick required. The boom was underway years before Trump took office. We had 5%+ GDP growth in Q2 and Q3 of 2014; Trump’s best quarter so far is 3.5%.
Obama did stimulus when we needed it and brought the deficit down thereafter, expanded healthcare for 20 million people, raised taxes on the rich, reduced the share of income going to the top 1%, avoided mistakes like trade wars while cooperating with our allies, and was scandal-free.
Competence means a lot. Trump has simply added to the debt enough to offset the damage from his other policies.
5
@David Doney it takes a fish to swim back up to the water line (where it was before the crash) but it takes an eagle to do what Trump's done in the last three years
3
I'm curious about these numbers. I have been looking for work for nearly four months, have applied for dozens of positions in my field and have had very good feedback. Yet, no job offers. Perhaps being in my late 50s may have something to do with it, perhaps not. I haven't filed for unemployment benefits so I don't show up on any radar that counts joblessness. I can assure you there are many of us actively looking for work and not finding it. So while these labor numbers appear to be good news, I'm convinced that there's an entire class of unemployed people not being counted.
40
Anybody can tell how many jobs were lost in the same time?
4
@Peter
The number measures net gain...always has...
Just last December, the Democrats and the MSM promised us Trump was leading us into a recession - one that was just around the corner.
What happened?
17
@Dr. John Still heading for recession, in spite of the end of the GM strike and Christmas season hiring, manufacturing is currently in recession. So much for his razor thin win in the Midwest. GDP will be 2 or lower for 2019. Trump will brag but an explosion of Santa jobs won’t save him a year from now.
7
@Dr. John democrats prayed to God for a recession to hurt trump. Sometimes God says NO for the greater good
3
I got one of these so called “jobs” for the holidays.
Since I don’t get paid as a substitute teacher during the holidays I have to scramble with my status as a veteran who speaks four languages and has a BA in the great land of nepotism run amok.
So I am one of those “privileged to toil”who were given one of these so called “jobs” which pays me the thrilling amount of 14.00 an hour. It will maybe keep me from starvation - but little else.
I stopped “celebrating” the capitalist bonanza of so called “Christmas”. I don’t bother anymore. The tree, the decorations, the cards, the bromides... Merry? Far from it.
My entire life’s worth amounts to less than five thousand dollars after years of endless toil. It’s all just pay pay pay to just “get by” and having the thrill of watching white collar criminals who are the “job creators” (see salve creators like Bezos) waltz around with more obscene excess than they know what to do with. Don’t count me among those receiving “prime” deliveries at my door.
Fake news.
Jobs? They stopped making those in the 1950’s when America had this group called a middle class. My dad was one of those lucky men. He worked forty hours. Could afford a house, a new car every two years, and a solid vacation every summer for my mother, my brother and I. We had beautiful Christmas trees and lovely wrapped presents under it for all our friends and family.
He’s dead. So is my mother. And so is the middle class. God bless our billionaires one and all.
54
I suggest the department of labor take a walk through any supermarket in the country. Speak to the people in there shopping as well as the employees. YES, why don't you speak to the actual workforce the foot soldiers the people on the ground renting and sweating and striving when the only thing available is minimum wage jobs. Inflation is totally out of control have you seen the price of a gallon of milk, for the price of a bottle of laundry detergent? Without exception everyone I speak to in the 30 to 40 year age range, bwhen doing my weekly shopping , tells me the same thing. They lament over the fact that, they, and all their friends have 2 or 3 jobs just to be able to afford the basics. Yet you never hear a thing about inflation, about the gross lack of industry and opportunities in good paying jobs with benefits. As sure as I'm sitting here the whole employment seen out there in the real world is obscene. Is the current administration even aware of this at all? Yes, and they don't care as long as media keeps spinning this nonsense about a great economy. Really pathetic and this paper is included in that!
11
Thank You Mr. President for Winning!..and bringing Jobs back to America!
8
@BO Krause HAHA, low wage, no benefit jobs. Yeah, that's winning alright...not.
We really need to bash Trump for the current and recent job gains, the lowest-ever unemployment rate for Blacks, etc.
Shouldn't we Democrats be worried that the economy is one of several factors likely to get Trump re-elected?
5
We really need to bash Trump for the current and recent job gains, the lowest-ever unemployment rate for Blacks, etc.
Shouldn't we Democrats be worried that the economy is one of several factors likely to get Trump re-elected?
2
According to the chart, Obama’s bars are still longer than Trump’s bars.
2
@Eric The chart, at least on my copy, only goes back to 2017, but I would like to see the data as far back as the end of the 2008 recession.
1
I must have missed the part where Trump gave me a reason to believe anything that comes from his administration. He lies about everything. His toady administration has lied about everything. So why should I believe anything they say now?
7
All CNN and MSNBC could talk about is articles of impeachment, on a day when we have a blowout jobs number, signaling no recession for the foreseeable future.
the contrast is striking.
Especially with the bottom of their screen showing the DOW up 300, making another record, right below the "impeachment" headline.
8
I've never been a conspiracy type person.
But, with our current government made up of so many Trump loyalists who more resemble Soviet zombies than what we used to call Americans…
I just have to stop and ponder anything they feed me.
For the sake of my beloved country. I hope I'm wrong.
7
Please put your NYT flashlight on how unemployment figures may be affected by monthly retirements as Baby Boomers age out.
What effect is there on our unemployment rate when Baby Boomers (roughly 200k/month?) leave jobs that either get backfilled or re-engineered into cheaper, lower benefits jobs?
Also, all jobs are not created equally. Sure would be informative if we knew what percentage of our employed are straight hourly workers with no benefits versus salaried with benefits. That's a big change in total compensation for the 21st Century.
4
@AHB
The unemployment rate is affected every year with holiday hiring. And counting 'the end of the GM strike' as lowering unemployment? That's what makes these figures so silly. They count the same jobs multiple times.
The jobs report has become just another smoke-and-mirrors con job of the Trump administration.
Every Christmas, there is a spike in jobs, as we all know. These are part time temporary retail positions that disappear before New Year.
If you check out the graph, you will see that this spike is lower for 2019 than in the previous years cited.
Nate Silver’s site, FiveThirtyEight, does an excellent breakdown on what these numbers actually mean.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/jobs-report-growth-unemployment/
Also worth noting is the “Average Wage Growth.” In charting the average (as opposed to the mean), the data are skewed higher by increasing disparities in income. The average is not representative of most employees, and the graph only indicates variations between a range of about two percentage points.
Pew Research has done a nice job of breaking out the data for wages into numbers that better reflect our real life experience since 2000, with growth applying to the top wage earners and purchase power remaining stagnant.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/
9
Interesting that there is so much divergence between BLS and ADP private payroll reports. But then both are statistical surveys trying to measure monthly changes that are about 0.1% of total employment.
"Employment" in the Gig Economy is a squishy concept in any case. If I make a few package deliveries for Amazon or a few Uber pickups a week, to supplement my retirement income, am I "employed"?
5
@Look Ahead
You only count as 'unemployed' if you apply for benefits.
We need to be asking for the median salary to determine real wage growth. Averages can be skewed upward if the right end tail (i.e. the super rich) is significantly better off than than the rest of the sample population. (and is proportionally doing better than their percentage of the population would otherwise indicate) The median splits the population into 2 equal halves and is usually a better indicator of progress when a statistical population is displayed as a non-normal distribution.
The problem with reporting only the average (as we've done since the Reagan years) is that most people think of a statistical distribution as the classic high school Normal (actually Gaussian) bell curve.
We should also be careful with this report because much of the numbers are the result of GM workers returning to work. Officially, those count as new jobs, but effectively they're just people returning to jobs which were on hold.
8
This is great news if you have a trust fund or an inheritance and can afford to buy a house, health insurance and the rest on $15/hour. If you expect to do those things solely relying on your salary you are out of luck.
9
@Jonahh
I don't have a trust fund or inheritance and I was able to purchase my education, house, and healthcare through hard work. I didn't have a choice because my parents were never in a position to help me in any way. This was THEIR fault because even though they both worked full time and had good jobs, they mismanaged their money.
5
@Lyn Robins you were the exception not the rule. Congrats!
First, there have always been jobs with low pay, few benefits and little room for advancement. (I know. I had many.) The idea that their existence somehow diminishes economic progress is misguided.
Second, it has always been the case that every worker has an obligation to match his/her skills to what is being demanded in the workplace. If automation is all the rage, then every skill set required from repair to programming should be acquired.
There seems to be an unfortunate mindset that people are somehow owed a job based on their past experience, current skill set and a notion of "fairness." This has never been the case and will never be the case.
9
@AACNY But is the past the ideal, what we want to strive for? Obviously no one is owed a nice job, but shouldn’t we as a community and nation work together to decrease the amount of suffering that the lower quartiles of society experience by helping increase their economic freedom?
2
Before we get too giddy about these numbers, we need to remember that 54,000 of the 266,000 jobs were returning GM strikers. Additionally, when this adjustment is made, the manufacturing sector continues to look weak. Was this not where Trump was going to make America great again?
5
I don't believe anything that comes out of this administration. And until wages go higher for all people, we will never get ahead.
9
So when will the numbers be revised? I’ve never seen the jobs numbers stay static let alone not be revised down
1
@JD Adding to the picture of strength for the labor market, previous jobs numbers were revised up. September’s figure was revised up by 13,000 to 193,000. October was revised up by 28,000 to 156,000. Together, that adds 41,000 more jobs than previously reported. Winning!
1
Is anybody looking at budget deficits? Based on Trump's budget projections, he will rack up a $6.2 trillion in deficits during his first term. Obama, who had to clean up after George W. Bush's mess in 2008, left us with a deficit of $6,785 trillion deficit after two terms. Clinton left a surplus deficit of $230 billion; the best economy of the 20th century. He taxed the rich, lowered welfare dependency, employment was high and people had a smile on their face. Other than the rich, I don't see many people smiling on the streets.
28
Exactly. I just read the editorial by Neil Irwin and nary a mention of the fact that we are putting ourselves in the hole to do it.
4
Add the 48k to October and subtract the 48k from November. (48k is the number of GM workers that were on strike.) The difference between the two months becomes 42k, much more reasonable. Remember the margin of error of these numbers is generally considered to be about 100k.
10
Our economy, and certainly our labor markets, are more and more reflective of our overall culture which can be distilled (pun intended) to a beer slogan:
Tastes great. Less filling.
We're No. 1.
God bless America.
7
Does anyone believe that a president that would stop to seeking foreign intervention in an election would not also juice economic numbers for his political benefit? Not me, for one.
43
"Still, despite the low unemployment rate, stable, secure jobs that pay a middle-income wage can be hard to find across a range of skills."
This is the key sentence in this article, which appears nearly at the end. The majority of "new" jobs are considered low-value jobs, in the sense that they are low-paid, offer little to no benefits, have little opportunity for growth, and are part-time or have erratic schedules. That's the part of our economy that's "growing" and that Trump and his minions are gloating about. The middle class is still foundering and dying, as finding quality jobs which are well compensated, stable, and provide solid benefits are increasingly difficult to find.
77
@Dominic
Add to that the increasingly common usage of people as 'Independent Contractors' (i.e. no benefits, no PTO, no insurance, no anything except being expected to labor), and it gets worse. Typically, we're taught that if you're negotiating a contract job, you add 27% to the wage you'd actually want. E.g. if you had a job for $50,000 annually (the median wage), you'd have to expect an income of at least $63,500 in order to obtain the same quality of life after you've paid for your own benefits. However, if the employer can convince you that $60,000 is a good wage, they get to pocket the extra $3,500 as additional profit. Oddly enough the lower the salary, the more profit relatively the company makes off the independent because insurance has roughly the same costs across the board. E.g. it costs a typical company between $8000-10,000 per year to pay for benefits. If they can convince you that an extra $5000 per year is beneficial to you (you just have to pay for your own benefits), they get to pocket that remaining $3000-5000 for free.
So the growth in the service sector and the trend towards using independent contractors is actually hurting half the population.
4
The disconnect between the health of the economy and the dull misery of our politics is pretty funny. Best economy since the late 60s trumps, as it were, the impeachment playacting.
15
These reports don't mean much in a strong economy anyway. But I see lot of comments about how great Trump is. I puzzled as to how a president who has bankrupted 4 of his companies has any idea on how to run a national economy, unless hot air is a economic driver.
19
Well, he does tweet a mean storm at The Fed, so there's that.
1
It's breathtaking to think of how this economy would soar if Trump didn't sabotage it regularly. He's no doubt contemplating right now how to gum it up again
11
A single data point that is relevant but not conclusive: Every store I regularly visit has replaced most cashier jobs with scanning terminals, resulting in long lines and less employees. There may be more jobs because of GM employees returning and seasonal hiring, but it is not the bonanza that the Trump administration will claim they created. Honestly, it is nearly impossible to either blame or credit any President with macro-economic cycles, any more than it makes sense to credit or blame a President for stock market movements. There are many factors that are key to who should lead our nation, but this is is not a reasonable basis for voter choice.
10
One thing the Great Recession should have confirmed for the giddy economists was, the disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street. And during the banking committee hearing with Wall Street CEO's taking questions from members of the House and Senate, we learned that "profits were 'privatized' (sent to investors), while the losses where 'socialized'", (taxpayers bailed out the banks for their losses).
Now, setting aside the jobs numbers for a moment, there has been a counter-balance effect in the realm of consumer confidence from those jobs. It has been consumer credit card debt.
In the run-up to 2008, we had the subprime mortgage crisis where, as Michael Lewis explained in his book, "The Big Short," those mortgages were bundled into collateralized debt obligations (CDO's) and stuffed into bonds sold to unwitting investors around the world. A few investors saw the crash coming and insured their bonds with credit default swaps (CDS's) from AIG. The market collapsed and they made billions from the CDS's sending AIG into a death spiral.
Today, the bond market is loaded with subprime credit card debt, dangerously bloated by over-confident consumers carrying several maxed-out credit cards in their wallets, those same subprime credit card offers that came in the mail from obscure, as well as big banks.
Thus, too many consumers who used all that available credit are looking at six figures in personal debt they can't pay off. Thus, another recession from unsecured debt.
12
11 straight years of economic expansion. Test assured Trump and FOX will ignore 8 of them and give all the credit to Trump. Trump will happily take it.
9
@GUANNA
Know how much the S&P rose during Obama's last 2 years?
1.4%
Who gets the credit for that?
S&P has rose 50% since the day after Trump was elected.
Youre going to tell me after 2 years of the stock market going nowhere, Trump doesnt deserve some credit?
1
I don’t know why Trump doesn’t focus more on this. Maybe present the results as part of a plan for the US economy. Right now, he seems as surprised when the unemployment reports are issued as we are; almost as if he’s a bystander.
He could take it a step further by weaving in plans for infrastructure improvements and healthcare – both of which play a big part in the economy.
Such an approach would help him gain solid traction among the independents and undecided. But – you can take a horse to water……
3
trump only cares about himself and keeping his base by conning them he know nothing about policy and governing and does not care about them either, to him this is just a 24 hour reality show
1
@Mike Edwards
Trump tweets about the economy almost every morning.
Seriously, practically every morning since he was elected.
Get hs tweets as a notification on your phone, and youll see.
The only reason it seems like he doesnt make a big deal is because the media ignores all of it. They wont produce a single headline thats positive for Trump.
ADP jobs report for November is radically different - increase of 67,000, not 266,000. Something fishy here. ADP adjusts for seasons - is it the holiday season hiring bumping up the numbers to the 266k? That's a lot of temporary workers. And why are returning strikers being counted as job increases?
65
I find it interesting that Amazon is getting hammered by politicians, the press and organized labor, when they have done what these folks have been clammoring for -- raising their minimum wage to $15 per hour.
14
@Prodigal Son For the coveted "Blue Badge;" $15 an hour doesn't negate 10-16 hour days and working conditions designed by robots (except for the temporary pain medication dispensers, which the company generously provides for free). Temporary jobs are just that.
4
@Prodigal Son "D'acc," but Amazon destroys communities, drives many small businesses out of business, so perhaps AOC was right,They pay $15.00 an hour but employees have fewer rights, can be fired with little hope of successfully appealing their dismissal.Once Amazon comes in, community feeling, esprit de corps among folks is gone.
6
They will never be satisfied, just look at France if you want to see what appeasing them all the time looks like. Endless strikes and new demands but their economy is totally stagnant and not growing. The French economy is riddled with nepotism just like old unions in the US would only hire friends and family, excluding black and brown workers not from the same working class neighborhoods.
Not to mention it goes way beyond wages and they scare companies aware from America by making it impossible to fire bad workers or even do any sort of punishment for bad behaviour without jumping through a thousand hoops.
It’s a good thing that has grown into a self destructive monster. There’s a reason it went away.
4
"The competition for workers has helped push up wages, particularly at the lower end of the scale." The Fed Chair also said lower wage workers were benefiting the most from this economy.
This what progress looks like. One economic statistic at a time. So many positive statistics are a good thing.
24
@AACNY Wages are going up now for the first time in 30 years? I should tell my employers! Maybe I won't need two jobs to barely scrape by!
3
I am missing something. How should strikers returning to work be adding to the jobs increase? If strikers strike, do those jobs get counted as a reduction in jobs, and why? Also, it's that time of year when hiring goes up because of the holiday shopping season. If there was anything in there about this, I missed it too.
51
Looks great--on the surface. How many of these jobs pay real living wage, and how many include affordable health benefits and retirement benefits beyond Social Security? Answer these questions, and then I could decide whether this is a truly great number or just another statistic.
33
@Wiltontraveler
If these numbers were posted 6 years ago, you would have called for the canonization of Obama.
I must be the King of the Contradictory Trend...I'm always making money during a recession and right now I'm finding the job hunt almost impossible. Many of my friends and acquaintances feel the same way. Where are all of these jobs coming from? I don't see them anywhere near my current reality.
38
@Dr. John Who's in Hillsboro? I'm in Portland...if you had any depth of knowledge whatsoever before you spewed out an arbitrary comment, you would know the difference.
2
What the U.S. are you talking about the' U.S. adding jobs' ?
America isn't a business.
America is a government nation state.
The President of the United States isn't a businessman.
The President of the United States is the head of government and state.
7
@Blackmamba
Thankfully, this president is focused on creating jobs. This is a big part of why he was elected. Americans tired of bigger government being promoted as the source of their income. They would prefer a job to disability, food stamps, welfare and unemployment, which are what democrats keep pushing as "solutions".
12
@Blackmamba
Why so negative?
This is great news for all America.
1
@AACNY He has crated no more jobs than Obama. Aother bigly Trump Lie. If you don't believe me look ant the actual numbers. Trump has only blown up our declining deficit. His single contribution to our economy.
Look at the numbers over the last 11 years instead roof listening tho Trump and FOX NOISE.
Look at the numbers.
2
Democrats better wrap this impeachment thing quickly and think of a an economic plan. Today's job's report was arguably the best in a decade. If this continues, Trump wins(even though he has really nothing to do with the economy). The Chinese will roll over now too and if that happens, Rocket Man won't be far behind. Democrats can still win but they need a capitalist economic plan. If no plan, it will be 4 more years of the same 2500 of us lamenting about having Trump as President on the New York Times comment section.
I wonder too if Europe is suffering the same fate as Russia. Essentially passing into oblivion. I guess I would be laughing too better than crying.
4
@Dante Not even close. Trumps yearly job numbers match Obama's. Stop swallowing FOX NOISE and look at the data, The Data speaks for itself whereas Trump and FOX lie.
Employment is also buoyed by record numbers pf retirement which will continue for the next 10-15 years. Are you going to give Trump credit for the baby boom generation.
4
@Dante
Go to the House website and look up the 400+ bills they've passed this year (many of which involve the economy and quality of life for people, as well as infrastructure and bills dealing with the opioid crisis) that are still sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk, who has no intention of bringing them up before the Senate, nor even bringing them before the various Senate committees for discussion.
Go ask him.
@Dante, You wouldn't want all our identity groups to lose their political home. Jobs are at stake.
Most Americans work harder and longer than before but they get poorer. When over 40% of working Americans cannot, CANNOT put together $ 400 for an emergency, we know that Americans are not employed but are slaving, slaving for a moneyed aristocracy that keeps buying political power and legislation that results in lesser taxes for them but a heavier yoke for the working man.
This is a sham system, it is a rigged system. We must expand socialist programs and tax the rich. If we don't, such employment number are nothing but misleading; and the truth a tragic, inhuman outcome: Americans are overworked, stressed, sicker, with shorter life expectancy.
That is Trump's economy, the jungle capitalism and madness of Ayn Rand all rolled in one miserable fix. The rich get richer and poor poorer!
15
@KBronson Thank you for saying that. But need we say that Americans are buying low quality products that are thrown away, poor quality food at convenience store which is expensive but bad for health, that the quality of life of poor Americans is awful, lack of health care is horrible, such that no civilized nation suffers.
Try to discern between facts and opinions.
3
The actual employment number is based (mostly) on a Labor Department phone poll of 60,000 random homes in which the questions “did you work this month, were you paid, what did you do” are asked. Little else.
If you drive a rideshare part time, make robo-calls, toss boxes at fulfillment centers, or make harassing debt collection calls, and were paid, you qualify for being employed. Corporations insure actual productive careers remain minimized to satisfy CEO pocketbooks and shareholder value.
Unemployment Insurance (UI) numbers report those ON unemployment rolls. They do not count those no longer receiving UI but still job-seeking. After the initial half year of state-supported UI runs out, Federal UI kicks in, but only if the unemployment rate is above 4.0. The only way to calculate those who have gone off the rolls is to query each state on how many letters of Federal UI denial have been sent out each month… a question never asked.
Eugene Scalia, Trump appointee and son of Antonin Scalia, an anti-labor lawyer who helped strike down benefits for employees, and was a highly-paid Chamber of Commerce lobbyist, runs the Labor Department.
So much for reporting “real” numbers that help deny benefits to the longer-term unemployed and make the President appear to be working for the American Worker. We will only know the damage done to the US workforce when Trump is gone.
And the media continues to shirk its duties and, by default, promote the lies of this administration.
11
Fact: The days of the home with the white picket fence with 2.4 kids to raise and still live comfortably with only one of the spouses working are long gone.
Especially people trying to live in major urban areas. In the suburbs if you consider mopping the floor at a junk food franchise for minimum wage or less a good life then have at it.
This is an economy for the top 1%.
36
@Hal I have 2 kids, a dog and a white picket fence. I don't mop floors....sometimes my wife makes me sweep it though. :)
1
@Hal
Perhaps college students should stop majoring in "gender studies" and "feminist poetry" and major in STEM.
4
I'm sure employment is strong, especially in the gig economy, but in my heart of hearts, I just don't believe any data like this being presented under the Trump administration. No one knows how to cook the books like this character and his underlings, and they will unquestioningly do his bidding.
7
@Christopher
The deep state is trying to stop True at every corner. If they could have, they would have posted a 16% unemployment rate.
3
Baby Boomers are once again saving the economy and Trump's job.
300,000 baby boomers are retiring every month. Those jobs are filled with new workers. The retired baby boomers start spending retirement dollars and the newly hired workers spend their wages. This consumer driven economy will only last until the Baby Boomers are dead and no longer spending their pensions. Future retirees don't have pensions, only their social security, if Republicans don't take that away from them.
7
Tell that to Trump and the fanboys ad they will screech Fake News,
The only real thing turmp produced was a strong stock market. Then again it is a very volatile indicator of the economy's overall health. Look at the several mini crashes that Trumps tariff mutterings caused. Oh I forgot their is the trillions in new debt. Some of Trump's economic growth is cause by massive government overspending, Something the GOP use to care about.
1
This is impressive...especially since unemployment is already low. Thank you, President Trump for a job well done! I will gladly take more of the same!
26
It's about time US citizens got off their behinds and worked hard regardless of the wages and benifits.
Thank you President Trump for gutting the social safety net, environmental protections and allowing planes to fall out of the sky. Thank you for giving a huge tax cut to the wealthy. Thank you for separating children from their parents at the border. It worked the jobs numbers are almost as good as they were under President Obama.
11
Clearly, this is all a result of the glorious Obama administration...,
3
Actually it is, and not the work of a bankrupted billionaire.
2
@Greg
Since Democrats give credit to Obama for the current rosy economic numbers, I wonder if they would also have blamed Obama if the economy had tanked under Trump.
After all, if Obama is still responsible for the current economy, it only makes sense that he would also take the blame if the current economy was a disaster.
I’ll never forget my economics professor telling us, almost 30 years ago, that without fail the United States president has always gotten re-elected when the economy is strong. Absolutely nothing else matters. People vote with their wallets. It really is the economy, stupid.
12
@mci There are low paying jobs with no benefits, and there are good paying, permanent jobs with benefits. You can tout these numbers all you want, but people are still struggling in this gig economy, and these numbers won't automatically make them believe their situation is stable. That's what they'll be thinking come November 2020.
3
There is today's weather and there is climate, we live in a climate of mostly stagnating wages and massive wealth inequality, this is hardly changing. Do pacific islanders who are watching their country dissappear under the waves care that it's been a really sunny month?
8
Boom, anyway you slice it.
The president's policies have added millions of American jobs ,increased wages and provided opportunity for all
To my liberal friends, what part of these policies are you against?
26
As long as republicans don’t beg for bailouts for too big to fail companies, hey, a good economy is better than a slow one
if history is any indication, Republican presidents at the end of their terms left behind a mess (housing crash under bush and recessions ending earlier bush’s term) and democrats were left picking up the pieces - wish that won’t happen again here
A moment of instant gratification can be a decade of pain - so yes, enjoy this while it lasts and conveniently blame others when it ends -
And then there is a part about man not living by bread alone - oh well, that seems too difficult to understand
5
The part about a living wage and healthcare for our citizens like the rest of the civilized world.
9
@Obummer
While I would debate the premise that the President has as much to do with job creation as you seem to think, let's be fair: If you are giving Trump credit for creating these jobs, I guess you will have to blame Bush for losing so many, and give even greater credit for Mr. Obama, who created even more jobs during his term than Trump has to date.
6
ADP reported adding 66,000 jobs in November.
Let's not forget who represents this government.
3
I am sure this has to be retail hiring Christmas help. Let's see what Jan brings when they are all let go!
15
The details if the report do not conform to your pessimistic hypothesis
7
@Ron Easy enough to look at previous years, pretty sure the market would not get excited about that. But lets say it is an unusually large spike vs previous years but all attributable to ‘hiring Christmas help’. That would simply indicate the an economy that feels good and people want to go out and spend some money. All good Ron, can take this one away from Trump, try as you might.
2
@Ron The stats are seasonally adjusted for this.
Who is lying? I do not believe these numbers. Health services? People are losing insurance so how is it that health services are growing? Auto sales are down and still falling and will suffer more when the tariffs take place. Farm production is down and farm bankruptcy is high. The only area I know that is growing is the jobs related to recovery from natural disasters. Corporate bonds are at their highest but the bonds are not related to corporate expansion or growth. I recommend the Times take a longer look at these numbers and provide some clarity into the estimates. People are now describing growth between 2 and 3% for the next five years. Our tax revenues are the lowest in many years and the lowest of any developed nation for this year. Our deficit was $986B this year and will be more next year. If this is success, we must have moved to the twilight zone.
26
@Ray you can keep telling yourself all that while the Democrats help Trump win his second term. And the health services sector is growing in leaps and bounds, there is especially a demand for nurses and other service and tech workers. Insurance companies are not losing business. I don't know where you got that idea. They should be put out of business though. At least out of the healthcare business. And the the only candidate who will see to that is Bernie Sanders. The only one who can beat Trump. But the Dem establishment is doing their level best to keep him from getting that nomination.
7
I am starting to feel sorry for my liberal friends who are so cut off from reality that when news comes out that contradicts their democratic talking points they are confused and lost. The reality is the healthcare sector is very healthy and growing very strongly. There are people who are underinsured but this does not mean the sector is contracting. I would suggest that you start broadening your reading to the Wall Street Journal and the economist so that you can understand what’s really happening in the world.
2
Yet after tax adjusted corporate profits are down 0.5%, and unadjusted corporate profits are down 6% through Q3, while stocks are up ~15% in the same span vs last year. Moreover stock valuations, price over earnings, have been this high only two other times, 1929 and 2000.
Record high valuations at a time of unprecedented record high stock buybacks (much of it bought with debt) while profits are down, and at a time when both consumer and government debt is rising.
Doesn't add up. Can you say speculative bubble anyone?
4
The stock market being at a record level is not the same thing as record high valuations
7
@Robt Little Go look up the valuations. Last time they were this high was 1929 and 2000.
1
Unfortunately, the gains are more than offset by the additional $2 trillion budget deficit. And who's going to pay that back...not Trump, not large corporations...you guessed it, middle-class families. Enjoy that extra $50 in your paychecks while it lasts.
7
If the economy keeps humming along in Nov. 2020 Trump will waltz into a second term. No saying that is a good thing just stating a fact.
15
In a follow up, I’d like a harder look at the percentage of jobs that pay decent wages and benefits. It’s nice to have jobs, but the bigger question is are people making it?
8
@Harry wage gains are at record highs for middle and lower class.
7
This is really terrible news, as it increases the chance that Trump is re-elected next November if he is still in office. The Democrats need to double down on impeachment/conviction. The risk of Trump re-election is too serious to leave uncovered. It's like dying before you are 40 (or maybe 80 this year).
@james lowe
James, the situation actually out in the real world is that people in their forties are dying at an alarming rate. Inflation is out of control, there are no jobs available with good benefits and a decent living wage. In the 30 to 40 age range the desperation is palatable. Most of them are clinging on for Life, and if they do have healthcare is abysmaly inadequate. This country has a real crisis on their hands. The angst, depression, frustration and desperation is everywhere you turn with individuals in this age group. We're heading towards a brick wall and everybody knows it.
2
@james lowe Much gratitude for your painful honesty. It is so refreshing to hear the quiet part out loud.
@Becca Helen
Please accept my apologies for all the typos in my above post. I was using the microphone, just went ahead and click submit without proofreading. Going to have to give it the old Rick Perry oops!
I think this happens every year just before the holiday season. Pretty sophomoric without against last year's trends.
8
@Darrel Lauren Yes, Trump consistently matching 50-year unemployment lows would only beget sophmoric interest.
Makes one appreciate the good old days of the O'the consoler-in-chief, making Dems feel good in spite of the economic malaise and lower optimism.
11
@David H.
Are you kidding me? My neighbor's son committed suicide in 2008 he was a financial advisor. The great BU$H recession lost his mother and his clients more than half of all their savings. NEVER FORGET, people.
3
Only true if “sophomoric” means seasonally adjusted, same as they always have been
1
Thank you, Barack Obama.
(Whenever I feel kind of down I come to the NYTimes comment section and all I have to do is throw his name out and the immediate recommends suddenly make me feel like the most happy fella. It’s like catnip.)
13
Macron, Johnson, Trudeau, and others were observed laughing at President Trump during the recent NATO conference.
Who's laughing now?
17
The same dudes. Still laughing.
I’m old enough to remember when a 200K jobs report was bemoaned as terribly low.
Facts don’t lie:
Obama: created 12 Miliom jobs.
Trump created 5 Million jobs.
10
@Dave
Well, for starters the big agribusiness that Trump gave 60 billion of our tax dollars to this year. My guess is they're laughing very hard, right along with Boris Johnson, and the world.
5
I wonder how much of the earnings increase comes from the new UAW contract.
1
Regardless of the reality of job growth with its gig economy and uncertainty of major labour disputes, this is the type of data that will get Trump re-elected, impeached or not. As someone once said, “It’s all about the economy, stupid!”. It’s irrelevant to the average voter that Trump is simply perpetuating Obama era economic policies, notwithstanding the trade wars that he appears to be winning that will serve to bolster his popularity to his base and beyond who care little about Ukraine or even Russia over survival.
Back to the reality, however. These job figures emerge from a trickle down, more like a slow drip, effect from super wealthy to working poor. Trump will vaunt these figures as a demonstrable effect of tax cut legislation resulting in largesse being dispensed from a benevolent elite to the serfdom. In a way, it’s perversely true: the employers can afford to hire more people because of tax breaks, but those jobs are of low quality, low prospects, and low pay. Most of the high paying jobs are still offshore where they are contrived to be low paid to a local population. Making America great again is really an exercise in exalting poor people to work to make rich men richer, whomever and wherever each demographic resides.
The Democrats are as much to blame with their milk pudding politics. They abandoned the working class long ago, leaving a beleaguered generation of accidental conservatives desperate and angry enough to vote against their own best interests.
4
Remember ancient history, like four years ago, when Obama Labor Department's monthly job's figures were released and then-candidate Trump repeatedly called them lies? Completely made up? Remember when he claimed that unemployment was really 40 or 45%?
If you've observed Trump at all over the last four years and you understand the psychiatric term "projection", you know where i'm going with this. Every bad emotion... hate, envy, greed; every bad act... self-dealing, fraud, outright theft; every corrupt adult child riding his coattails to riches... all these things that Trump accuses others of, he is in fact guilty of.
Do we really believe these numbers from the DOL? From Elaine Chou?
27
@Julian Fernandez
Do we really believe these numbers from the DOL? From Elaine Chou? Yes do.
2
@John
My thoughts exactly.
3
@Julian Fernandez
Thank you for this "PERFECT" comment, Julian.
3
And now Trump, a repeatedly failed businessman who has reportedly lost over a billion dollars (squandering the 400 million he inherited), a con-man who bankrupted 6 businesses, will try to take credit for the economy.
Only a Fox cultist would think that Trump has anything to do with the economy.
Trump does threaten to drive our economy into chaos as a result of his numerous ignorant and petulant actions, but that is by no means leadership and he by no means deserves any credit for where we are right now.
7
@Conservative Catastrophe
The S&P rose 50% starting the day after Trump was elected.
Guess how much the S&P rose during Obama's last 2 years?
1.4%
So this latest 50% move, beginning the day after Trump won the election, has nothing to do with Trump?
I dont think so.
5
It's beginning to look a lot like....
5 more years of Trump.
22
Great news. Thank you
19
I wonder if any of these 266,000 jobs are part of Ivanka's "14 million new jobs" she created according to her father, the president?
7
@Marge Keller I am guessing the jobs were created by Melania since Ivanka is too busy pocketing patents in China to worry about American jobs.
3
The economy always adds seasonal jobs in November and December. Let's not give Trump credit for that.
5
Despite all the madness surrounding Trump record low unemployment ( which benefits all races and minorities ) and an all time high in the Dow Jones will probably get him re-elected. Incumbents do not lose when the economy booms.
6
@Milton Lewis
Funny how it's Trump's 'record low unemployment' now. The rates have been falling since the second year of Obama's term. If anything, that rate has flattened out during Trump's term. So the Dow's at an 'all-time high', is it. Was under Bush II as well. Two years later ? Lost almost half its value. So much for the numbers. That's what deficit spending buys you. And for all of Trump's yammering about the deficit under Obama, he's managed to make Obama look alike a spendthrift.
Me ? Yeah, watching my 403B grow is great. And I have to admit, at my age ? Probably won't live to see the results of Trump's gutting the programs and laws put in place to protect our environment. I never had kids, so should I even care ?
Anyway. Back to your 'booming economy'. Booming for who ? The rich ? Big business ? Certainly not for what's left of the 'middle class'. Even more certainly, not for the 'poor'. So enjoy the ride while it lasts. Don't expect it to last forever.
1
@Milton Lewis
Your post sounds like the fool's argument that there is a 'Highest Number N' when any mathematician would snicker and say "N + 1."
Every time the market goes up, it's the highest in history ... for the last 100+ years. It's all relative.
Seriously, you people need new arguments.
1
So let's put all this into perspective, it's right before Christmas and everybody's hiring part-time seasonal workers. Jobs that pay just over minimum wage. These are not really jobs people can afford to live on or feed their family with, unless you have six of them. I live in Phoenix and we have the highest levels of people getting evicted from rentals, because they can't afford the rent. The homeless problem in the US is at a all time high. These numbers look great for the investors and people on Wall Street who are saying everything is so wonderful, but the average person is struggling and personal debt, credit cards and student loans are out of control. Let's not forget about the national debt which is at the highest levels in history. I guess working at Walmart or Target part time is the Labor Departments idea of a great economy.
34
I’m technically employed, as a contractor, but at times can only bill a handful of hours a week. No benefits. Not getting any traction with a better paying, full time, permanent position. But woohoo, best economy ever.
10
@Therese You are counted in the U6 unemployment rate , now 6.9%, the lowest it has ever been since the government started measuring it in 1993. It includes anyone looking for work AND part time workers theat want full time work.
8
@Enough Humans
Guess what? That's the normal behavior of an economy. Should we start thanking Trump for the fact that I can breathe, and the Earth continues to rotate the Sun?
2
Can someone please explain why workers on strike are considered unemployed?
5
@Andrew
They do not count as unemployed since they are not looking for a job. So it does not impact that rate. However, their not working does impact the jobs figure, since they are not working. So when the UAW went on strike, the number of net new jobs was lower since they subtracted from the figure, and then when they went back to work, it goosed the figure. Over the two months, no impact.
3
The U.S. national debt is over 22 trillion dollars, an all time record high. The Treasury department data comes as tax revenue has fallen and federal spending continues to rise.
The current job numbers make as much sense as the words out of Donald Trump's mouth .
11
We should all be pleased that Trump has sustained the Obama recovery. Now, about those deficits....
2
How about numbers on jobs lost or individuals who have fallen off unemployment,?
2
But Trump's phone calls are more important, aren't they?
8
The labor force participation rate is increasing and the U6 unemployment rate is the lowest since the government started measuring it. This includes anyone looking for a job AND part time workers that want full time work. If you can breath, you can find a job. If you have any skill whatsoever, you can find a decent paying job. Hey people, learn any skill and live the American Dream.
9
This monthly number has become a joke. These are garbage jobs and they have no benefits, job security or hope. Most of the new jobs in this country won't even allow someone to afford housing. We need to look at what kind of jobs are being created. The income inequity is rising at a staggering rate. The rich are getting richer and everybody else, including the disappearing middle class, is getting poorer. Most people are struggling. We are becoming a modern slave state, where underpaid and overworked people are serving a tiny minority of the rich.
8
@Sam
Sam, do you have data to support these claims, or just repeating the same tired far left trope?
7
@Jonny Yes, I do have data, but it's pointless wasting it on you and your tired old far right tropes. See how easy it is to engage in meaningful dialogue?
1
"Mr. Kirschner is now a career coach — a business that he controls, but that offers no steady income or benefits."
The guy who can't find a solid career after his job was eliminated after "restructuring", is now a career coach? That's like being cut from the JV squad only to return and coach the Varsity team. Insanity.
3
I don't believe these numbers for a moment from the Labor Department. I do not trust the trump administration to tell the truth about anything
10
Yeah, broadening trade tensions. I mean, it's just impossible for some people to believe that the trade theory that was the driver of the centrist policy move towards "free" markets (and the corresponding decimation of middle class jobs) has turned out to be so utterly, gobsmackingly wrong. Trump is an abomination. But his instincts that main street disgust with clueless elites could drive an election victory was totally correct. Can a centrist beat him? Hard to imagine.
1
If anyone wants to equate these numbers to the narrative we need to keep this crime boss running his crime syndicate in the oval office to get these results, have at it. Read the BLS glossary of the definition of a job. Bottom line most American's are not making it during this "robust" economy.
2
Some facts based on the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS.gov):
Jobs created in past 34 months since Trump has been in office through November 2019: 6,557,000
Jobs created in Obama's last 34 months in office ending January 2017: 7,710,000
The labor force participation rate in November 2019 was 63.2% an increase in only 0.3% since January 2017, 62.9% though the U.S. population has grown from 324 million in 2016 to 331 million today.
Given those numbers the Trump economic policies should have created far more jobs in his 34 months in office.
Another factor that is ignored by this administration is the skyrocketing annual budget deficit which is expected to reach $1 trillion at the end of 2019 while the national debt soars above $22 trillion.
Now, here is the legerdemain: In addition to temporary cash injections, the Federal Reserve vowed to buy $60 billion worth of Treasury bills per month to juice the stock market through the spring of 2020. This manipulative sleight-of-hand is a virtual piggy bank for day trader hucksters and Wall Street casino operators who are buying back their own company shares and larding out whopping salaries and bonuses to themselves.
The Potemkin Village Trump economy is enjoying the sugar high in the short term. But, at some point "fiscally conservative" minions bowing at the feet of the Chosen One will have to go after the social safety nets that they vowed to slash had they won the 2018 midterm election.
The red ink keeps piling up.
3
For context:
1—how many trillions of dollars were
added to the deficit so far?
2—how many trillions of dollars in tax breaks were enjoyed by the 1 percent to date?
17
None of those in Puerto Rico. We are still in economic depression!
8
It's the same corrective phrase after every strong jobs report, contrary to predictions of a slowing economy. While the way unemployment is measured is not reflective of the types of jobs being counted (do they pay a living wage? Are they permanent or temp/contract?) or the true rate of un and under-employed, the stats as they are presented will play well for Trump in this election year. Isn't it time the Democrats stop focusing on wokeness and culture war posturing and start throwing their support behind someone who can trump Trump on economic and social reform? Someone like Bernie Sanders. The only candidate who can beat Trump and offer workers and the poor real hope and security for the future.
2
The economy might be booming according to the Labor Department but when you can't even get overtime pay when you work at Walmart, it shows American workers are still having problems with low wages. Walmart is making workers work overtime during the holidays and then not paying them but giving the a 10% discount in the store to be used in 24 hours.
People are still working 2 jobs and many unable to afford a $400.00 emergency. Unemployment is low but so are wages.
16
A) They overstated the jobs by 1/2 million from 2018-early 2019. Gee, what else was happening in late 2018? I’m sure the Trump regime’s Labor Department had nothing to do with padding numbers to try to make the job market look better than it was for an election... ;-)
B) What is the average real wage of these new jobs? Real wages. Which means after inflation is accounted for. Economy reporters never like to talk about REAL wages. Because it completely destroys the narrative of an economy that is working for average Americans. So they exclude all conversations about real wages and real earnings on purpose.
6
If one person is making min wage and has 3 jobs to stay afloat does that count as 3 jobs? Everyone can have a job but does not mean things are working for them or the economy.
41
@B great question
3
@B
Sadly, yes - it does count as 3 jobs. It's also a reason why the labor participation rate is low.
2
The Economy: President Donald Trump made the economy a centerpiece of his 2016 campaign. Three years into his presidency, Trump relentlessly touts job growth under his administration. But it is important to note that 1.1 million fewer jobs were created during Trump’s first 33 months in office compared to Obama’s last 33. Trump also promisedto bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States. But manufacturing is now the smallest share of the American economy in 72 years. Meanwhile, median household income, an important economic measure, has remained largely stagnant over Trump’s first three years in office. Trump administration spin aside, increases in household income trail those under Obama, which grew steadily toward the end of his administration.
Moreover, in selling a massive tax cut to the public, Trump promised “4, 5, even 6 percent” annual economic growth. With dismal growth expected this quarter, Trump will finish his first term with a high-water mark of 2.9 percent annual economic growth (in 2018) — matching Obama’s economic record. Apparently, Trump’s much-touted rollbacks of regulations protecting American workers and the environment had very little effect on economic growth.
9
@lisa thank you for the reality check.
1
Hi, Everybody, Skepticism here: How do we know that these "good economy" Labor Department reports are reliable?
Remember when Trump drew on and then proffered on TV an *official* weather map showing that Alabama would be affected by a hurricane--all to prove that his previous erroneous, alarming statement about Alabama being in the path of the hurricane was right?
Remember when Michael Cohen testified that he helped Trump disseminate FALSE NATIONAL polls in Trump's favor before the 2016 election?
Well, Trump has taught me well: How do we know that these reports from the Labor Department are accurate? Cooking the books would be especially important if, as many predict, a good economy is Trump's one sure ticket to reelection.
15
@CBK I guess the next general election can answer your question?
1
@Ou
Actually, no. Certainly Trump may win, because enough people believe his lies. Can you really believe that makes the lies true??
4
40K from GM strike.
How many of these jobs are seasonal? It would appear from the graph to always have a fall upswing then a slump after NYears.
6
Are these living-wage jobs?
Does a person nee 2 or 3 of them to get by?
Health benefits?
Can we get more complete data before celebrating the raw numbers?
69
What does "helped in part by the end of the GM strike" mean? Isn't it a little deceptive to count returning workers from a strike to the "new" jobs tally? What exactly does the Labor Department's report actually cover? More meaningless numbers that can be used to boost anyone's agenda.
12
@Eyes Wide Open
I wasn't talking about the economy in general, just the way the numbers are calculated. New jobs should be NEW jobs. Especially when someone like Trump lies about factory openings, etc. in order to point to the strength of said economy.
4
@chrismosca
Agree. Are returning teachers after summer break calculated as new jobs?
And, we almost always see a downward revisal a couple weeks later. Is it calculated since the revisal will not be mentioned by most or buried in the business section of the paper?
trump and his administration lie like the rest of us breathe. Why should we trust him on this?
Retail businesses are closing at astronomical rates. Farm bankruptcies are skyrocketing but it's Morning in America, all sunshine and lollipops, in the alternate reality world of trump and his diehard supporters.
4
Top-line job numbers do not indicate whether workers are paid a wage that allows them to move out of poverty, and policymakers who focus on jobs instead of wages, income, and wealth ignore how most workers and families experience the economy.
Since 2001 wages have increased $2.77 per hour for production and nonsupervisory workers. Why do the laws of supply and demand not apply to workers? Why do recent tax cuts to business not correlate into higher wages?
It seems that policy changes are the only way to compensate workers for their fair share of economic growth and profit sharing. If this is not forthcoming workers need to form a stronger coalition against management to leverage higher compensation.
3
Wow, stats like this will cement trump’s reelection. Time though for more wage growth and spreading the wealth.
11
Should I believe this report, this President lies all the time....does the Labor Department have some autonomy, do they tell the truth.
Does this take into account that some people need more than 1 job to exist?
Does it take into account part-time jobs?
Does this include Christmas only retail job?
18
@JackietThe Economy: President Donald Trump made the economy a centerpiece of his 2016 campaign. Three years into his presidency, Trump relentlessly touts job growth under his administration. But it is important to note that 1.1 million fewer jobs were created during Trump’s first 33 months in office compared to Obama’s last 33. Trump also promisedto bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States. But manufacturing is now the smallest share of the American economy in 72 years. Meanwhile, median household income, an important economic measure, has remained largely stagnant over Trump’s first three years in office. Trump administration spin aside, increases in household income trail those under Obama, which grew steadily toward the end of his administration.
Moreover, in selling a massive tax cut to the public, Trump promised “4, 5, even 6 percent” annual economic growth. With dismal growth expected this quarter, Trump will finish his first term with a high-water mark of 2.9 percent annual economic growth (in 2018) — matching Obama’s economic record. Apparently, Trump’s much-touted rollbacks of regulations protecting American workers and the environment had very little effect on economic growth.
3
I’ve read this cut and paste response multiple times on this comment site. You have good points, but please make your point once on your own and then leave it.
This is what full employment looks like. Time for some wage growth..
7
So the 54,000 jobs listed in manufacturing were actually GM ending it's strike. 48,000 GM and the last 6,000 were almost certain to be in related business such parts and truck drivers who deliver the cars to dealers. Losses and gains due to striking workers should not included in this report until or when they actually loose their jobs permanently. So we are at 212,000
created. Are we certain that the labor dept actually counted them as lost jobs in Oct ? The scary thing is that the government is the biggest cheerleader for Americans bad habit of spend spend spend. 78% live paycheck to paycheck and cant afford a major car repair bill. Raise the minimum wage and start telling people to SAVE, SAVE. SAVE!
21
As a federal department controlled by Trump, can we trust the labor department's reported "great" numbers ? Is there any number reflective of the state of the economy, other than jobs, that Trump would want to influence to assist in his re-election ?
Trump pressed the National Weather Service to alter its opinion regarding the course of Hurricane Dorian in September. There are multiple examples of the Trump administration's attempt to influence Federal Departments' reported numbers and opinions.
142
@AW I agree that we should never trust any data that comes from the Trump White House. I do not believe much of it. I would rather believe a phone call with a Psychic.
15
@AW
This is exactly the point I was going to make, AW.
Trump and his ilk always accused Dem's of manipulating the numbers whether with voting results or jobs.
If any administration was every capable and willing to do whatever it takes to make them look good, this is the one.
No way I trust anything this administration says or does.
19
@AW
After the ADP numbers came out very low this week,these were a surprise. Next month should be interesting.
5
Good report.
Now Trump is only around 900,000 jobs behind what Obama created in same time frame of Presidency.
Special thanks to the *union* workers at GM.
108
Obama also had the benefit of helping the country come out of one of the worst economic conditions in history. There wasn’t really any other direction to go than up.
Trump (with the help and direction of Obama’s presidency, of course), has admittedly maintained and resided over a strong economy.
15
Democrats need to step up their efforts to drag down the economy before the next election. They should not wait until a Democrat is elected to replace Trump.
10
@Martin Basic math suggests it's easier to create jobs when unemployment is high vs low.
What Trump has been able to do with an already low unemployment rate is pretty stunning.
10
I think the nature of work, together with income levels, has changed. Many of the new "jobs" are in the gig economy. Uber and Lyft drivers are not treated as "employees," although that legal status is being challenged. Gig workers have no company provided benefits, they have to arrange their own tax payments and healthcare coverage. I suspect this work is considered "jobs," but few people treat this as regular employment. In a recent article on how jobs are counted, it mentioned that if you work one day a week you are considered employed. The numbers, coming from the Trump controlled government, to me are very suspect.
101
@Eero I have never in my 67 years seen the number of help wanted signs that have been around for the past two years. Further, employers are often finding it impossible to find qualified, or any, workers. So I suspect the numbers are correct.
2
@Eero The numbers are actually extrapolated from the number who have applied for jobs through Dept of Labor employment/unemployment local bureaus, vs. working age adults in the total population.
The numbers give us no indication of the number of frustrated people who have stopped looking for work through fed and state agencies of the DoL.
We are not being told the truth.
@T Smith Those employers are neither providing living wages, nor the hours required to work for a living wage.
If the job doesn't pay for rent/mortgage, food, and transportation, no one will want to work there.
If the owner/CEO earns more than 6 times what he/she is offering line employees, who would want to work there?
1
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have seen the types of jobs being added in our community. Go to the grocery store, and you will now see dozens of people running around the place filling carts with food to deliver in their cars to those who have placed orders. Dozens of these shoppers, all making very sad salaries with no benefits of any kind, using their own cars for delivery. That and the growing cadre of Uber drivers. You can't live here on those wages. But they are the lucky ones -- they have cars, unlike many other low-wage earners here who can't afford even a battered up old car and must ride a combination of buses to work, taking several hours. Just who is this economy helping?
242
"Just who is this economy helping?"
The fossil burners! Combine the worldwide flood of Uber-Lyfts with jailable bolsonaro's concurrent wars in Brazil on the Amazon and sanity, and the climate's future looks utterly bleak unless you're a lethal-fuel executive.
But even then, Nature will come for you too. Watch.
10
@Locavore
Same here. I've been doing some scouting because of a potential job phase-out in the next year or two. All I'm seeing in my field is either contract work or positions that pay half of what I make now. Luckily, my wife and I have always lived frugally and have time to prepare for a potential downgrade in pay.
An increase in jobs looks good on the surface, but that's smoke and mirrors if most of those jobs are low-pay, part-time, no benefits -- or in this case seasonal temp work and a statistical blip of auto workers ending their strike. I suspect the only folks coming out ahead in this "booming" economy are the ones who were already leading the rest of us by a mile.
9
@Locavore And let's include all those retirees who want meaningful part-time jobs so they can go places on days they don't work. And we use trikes and bikes, because cars are not affordable on social security. Part-time job needs to be near home.....it already takes me 40 min to get to the doctor, 45 min to get to church, 20 min to the grocery where I can only buy what fits into my trike basket....... Those are one way trip times.
Retail shed almost 18,000 jobs. Again, someone needs to remind Mr. Trump that one in four US jobs is tied to retail.
Examples of some of the sectors involved:
Delivery services: Fedex, UPS, DHL, USPS
Paper
Printing
Computers / software: Apple, IBM, ADP, Dayforce, etc.
Supplies: Staples, WBMason, DDS
Ports & Airports
Real estate - Macerich, Simon, Developers, Westfield, Diversified Realty,etc.
Democratic Party - you need to do a better job of reaching out to the retail sector.
19
@JCAZ , Democratic candidates have been calling for raising the minimum hourly wage to 15 dollars.
At the same time, these are the headlines from the NY Times opinion / editorial section:
"Buttigieg’s Untenable Vow of Silence"
"The Climate Emergency Is a Political Emergency"
"Why the ‘Wokest’ Candidates Are the Weakest"
"Why Is Trump a Tariff Man?"
"I Was Once a Socialist. Then I Saw How It Worked."
"Please, Democrats, Don’t Make the Impeachment Articles Too Narrow"
"Watching NATO Crumble"
"Don’t Look Away"
"America the Hot Mess"
"Trump Is a Clear and Present Danger to the 2020 Election"
"The President’s Pardon Power May Be Weaker Than It Seems"
Unless the economy really changes (negatively) in the next 6-months, expect to see many changes in the Democrats' proposals - more than the expected walkbacks from the early season promises.
8
The retail sector where I live has been offering starting jobs at over $14/hour for several years. I’ve spoken with several people like those you mentioned and they say their work is
only 4 or 5 hours a day, while their children are in school and only when they want to work.
4
@John Bowman That won't change, with or without Mr Trump. Automation will replace them, as sad as it may be.
1
Education or training can not be over stated, it's vital in today's world. My wife has a three year degree, as an RN she just started a new job at $50.00/hr 40 hours a week. The good paying jobs are available for people willing to put some work up front.
20
@Jimd Honestly good for your wife, nurses are amazing people in my experience and deserve the compensation they recieve. But it's important to remember many people who took a similar track to her, STEM degree, worked hard, are not in a position of making $50/hr. Many I know are actually contributing to this job report, by supplementing their inadequate incomes in biotech with part time positions at Starbucks, or working as a bartender.
6
@Jimd , that's good news for you and your wife. But, everyone does not the acumen for nursing.
3
@Mike my point is, education and training is vital, preferably in a field that will reward the individual. Every kid really needs to have that instilled, that edjuation is critical for long term success. There’s no ther way
1
Let’s take a moment to appreciate President Obama for rescuing the economy from the crash at the end of the President Bush era.
386
@Bob Maher @Bob Maher you're a riot! Give MAGA some credit, too. Also, Obama inherited a broken economy - there was no where to go but UP.
13
@Bob Maher
Right. We really need to bash Trump for the current and recent job gains, the lowest-ever unemployment rate for Blacks, etc.
Shouldn't we Democrats be worried that the economy is one of several factors likely to get Trump re-elected?
19
@tbs
When a Republican wrecks the economy he is really doing Democrats a favor because there's nowhere to go but up? That's an interesting theory of political economics.
34
It took app. 10 yrs.of partying for the great depression of 1929 and the Great Recession of 2008 to happen.
With record corporate, private, gov't, student debt, the end will come, the only question is when and how bad.
54
It will be interesting to watch the January jobs market, when workers hired for the Christmas season will no longer be needed in retail stores. Maybe temporary jobs should be assessed differently from permanent ones
8
@DMH The government already corrects for that through seasonal adjustment.
11
@Will
Instead wait for the February numbers after all these retail stores go belly up. In the last three months within ten miles of my home a Family Dollar has closed, a K-Mart will be closing, a Sears will be closing and a Dress Barn will be closing. Payless closed earlier this year. Pier One and Old Navy closed a couple years ago. And these are just the ones I know about. Will trump and company be crowing then? I doubt it.
2
Demographics, to some extent, are destiny. In the 90s, the baby boomers were between 30 and 50 years old, their prime working years. The millenials are just entering that period; right now they're between 20 and 38. While they have some educational and socialization weaknesses compared to the baby boomers, there's nothing like working a real job for a few years to turn you into a responsible adult.
Yeah, things have changed, the soft corporate jobs for middle-of-the-pack workers with no particular skills are gone. But if the economy keeps growing, everybody will have some sort of chance.
5
@Jonathan: I would like to add that when
comparing demographics across G7 countries, a lot of today's relative economic strength is also fueled by the number of young and energetic immigrants to the US, as well as the children of earlier immigrants.
Both legal and illegal immigrants drive demand for goods and services as well as provide supply for the US labor force and tax base. Immigrants to the US help flatten and skew the US demographics curves more to the younger side as compared to many other Western democracies. Coupled with pro-business economic policies, and a welcoming and open-minded American culture, the vast majority of immigrants and their children thrive. In turn, the US economy and US society thrives.
It is a shame that immigrants routinely become a scapegoat for the social and economic stagnation many people born in the US are experiencing. I am hopeful that they too will find opportunity in this predominantly "trickle-down" economic regime. But this multi-decade status quo has not worked out well for them so far. So we can expect anti-immigrant fervor to continue to dominate our political discourse and threaten the economic vitality of the US in the future.
2
@Garry Mills - We could do much better if we had a system like Canada. We could require all immigrants to have a college degree or graduate degree, speak English, and pass a background check. We already have enough unskilled workers to fill the blue-collar jobs we have.
3
This job report is impressive. The US economy is cooking right now, especially compared to its counterparts in other developed countries. Even average hourly earnings rose more than expected.
I suppose we should all take a few moments to appreciate the stability.
68
@ConnerThe Economy: President Donald Trump made the economy a centerpiece of his 2016 campaign. Three years into his presidency, Trump relentlessly touts job growth under his administration. But it is important to note that 1.1 million fewer jobs were created during Trump’s first 33 months in office compared to Obama’s last 33. Trump also promisedto bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States. But manufacturing is now the smallest share of the American economy in 72 years. Meanwhile, median household income, an important economic measure, has remained largely stagnant over Trump’s first three years in office. Trump administration spin aside, increases in household income trail those under Obama, which grew steadily toward the end of his administration.
Moreover, in selling a massive tax cut to the public, Trump promised “4, 5, even 6 percent” annual economic growth. With dismal growth expected this quarter, Trump will finish his first term with a high-water mark of 2.9 percent annual economic growth (in 2018) — matching Obama’s economic record. Apparently, Trump’s much-touted rollbacks of regulations protecting American workers and the environment had very little effect on economic growth. Moreover, the massive Trump tax cut,
17
I'm not so sure. Books are cooking, maybe, and no I *don't* mean Bezos ebook sales figures, not that I would put such cooking past him.
Somewhere in Hollywood, accountants are blushing and jealous.
10
@Conner
Said the same thing just the other day.
Last year to stay at Walt Disney World Four Seasons was an already lofty 1100$ nightly. The same room for the same dates is 300$/ night more this year.
That type of rise wouldn’t happen with a struggling economy, or if there was widespread lack of confidence.
1
Your "Middle-Income Jobs Are Hard to Find" assertion gives one example. I'm sorry for Mr. Kirshner, but he's only 1 out of 140 million workers in this country and you can't extrapolate from that.
12
@Will Also, Budget Analysts make $76,000 according to the BLS, that is really stretching the definition of "middle income".