Now we know what Zuckerberg and Trump talked about. FB does not want to pay taxes in Europe and has agreed to misinformation campaigns by Trump and Russia - you know - quid pro quo - we allow misinformation you help us with a little tax problem we have.
Tariffs on French wine - a thinly veiled attempt to help Trump’s struggling Virginia winery!
Unintentionally, he is doing a great thing, for Washington State Wines, my very favorite.
Cheers.
"the French tax, which hits companies like Facebook and Google even though they have little physical presence in France."
WRONG - Facebook and Google have a big physical presence in France because France's 67 million residents generate revenue for these tax dodgers every single day by using the internet; Facebook/Google just don't have corporate offices or employees there because they conduct their organ-harvesting of the French economy by remote control from Silicon Valley and then use accounting shell games to 'arrange' their net income to land in Ireland.
In 2010, Facebook transferred the rights to its online platform and marketing intangibles to Ireland, a known tax haven used by other tech giants like Apple and Google. Transferring its intellectual property into Ireland allows the company to avoid paying billions in taxes by shifting royalties from across the world into a country where it is only required to pay trivial net income taxes. The initial success of this strategy was demonstrated by the fact that it reported $12.6 billion in revenue in Ireland on which it paid just $30 million in taxes in 2016.
https://itep.org/facebook-facing-shareholder-scrutiny-for-its-offshore-tax-avoidance/
Captain Chaos can penalize French wine all he wants in his supreme xenophobic ignorance, but the reality is that America's Oval Office Tax-Dodger is merely standing up for America's destructive corporate tax dodgers who have been fleecing the USA and the world for quite some time.
6
“The tech companies you’re talking about are not my favorite people because they aren’t exactly for me, but that’s O.K.,”
Yeah, like Zuckerberg doesn't spend an awful lot of time talking to "It" and Facebook isn't a lap-dog for him.
"It recommended tariffs as high as 100 percent on certain French imports, including cheese, wine and handbags."
Uh oh; there goes the suburban votes for Trump! ;-)
1
More reason for me to buy French wine.
3
Good for France, I am personally support this, bc we don’t have any leadership here in the US that will take on this Greed.
2
A 100% tariff on French Wine. A good move for Trump's winery in Virginia. Purely coincidence I'm sure.
3
Who are impacted? Drinkers of French wine, not Trump supporters.
4
Progressives are hypocrites. They are angrily against tariffs, yet support high corporate taxes. There is no difference. Corporations, as any business owner knows, don't pay the tax. Its another expense to be accounted for. No different than a tariff. So it results in higher prices.
You, pay the tax. Not Amazon, not Apple, not Google.
It wasn't bad enough they are destroying the planet. Now my white Burgundy will be twice as expensive. In big and small ways, this administration ruins everything.
19
This only affects the rich. Who cares?
1
Ludicrous that Trump in this instance - like virtually all instances - somehow puts himself, personally, front and center. Tech companies "aren't exactly for me"! Even though this may not influence his view, that it gets injected into the discussion at all is totally ridiculous.
Trump is a guy who would intentionally hurt states like NY, CA, and MA (tax-wise) to help other more-dependent states. Clearly, then, he would also be happy to slap a high tariff on French wines when (a) he owns a U.S. winery, (b) he is annoyed, personally, at Pres. Macron, and (c) he doesn't drink alcoholic beverages himself. Plus, I guess the "French cheese tariff" makes his whiny, angry, anti-"elite" supporters happy.
Win-win for Trump and his base. Loss for everyone else. He lives in a strictly binary world.
4
No! Now I’ll never be able to afford my favorite: DRC Domaine de la Romanée-Conti Grand Cru, Cote de Nuits. I guess I’ll have to settle for that wretched Italian swill Romano Dal Forno Amarone della Valpolicella. Darn you Trump!
1
Once again, Trump reacts like a spoiled child, stomping his feet and pandering to whoever will offer him, personally, the best deal.
3
I hate to be shallow, but come on! First it was parmigiano reggiano. Now it is Cotes du rhone. Does he have to ruin every last pleasure while he is also destroying our democracy? I am quite sure he will not be slapping any extra tariffs on fast food or tanning beds.
2
Maybe the economy will come crashing down next year. That's the ONLY thing that could get Trumpies to stop supporting this lunatic.
Then again, they'd probably just blame it on the Democrats.
2
I'm stocking up on Cotes du Rhone now.
2
Looks like Ambassador to the EU (Sondland) has his worked cut out for him. He best start taking notes.
So our fair-haired POTUs doesn't actually hate Google and FB now?
2
Just when you thought things couldn’t get any more ridiculous, it’s Freedom Fries Part Deux: deux and dumber.
3
Another chaotic swirl 45 started and then will calm the swirl and claim victory. He sucks at his job and he knows it. This is his one and only magic trick.
1
The playground bully is at it again, "Play my way or I'm taking my marbles and going home."
The odd thing though, trump has long lost all his marbles.
1
This seems like a great deal for France. Tech companies have shorted them billions in taxes by laundering their EU revenue streams through Ireland. French wines ($2.4B U.S. sales/year) are a Veblen good. If I were Macron, I'd take this deal and use it to bolster my domestic support.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good
1
“They’re American companies. We want to tax American companies. That’s important. We want to tax them, not somebody else.”
I can understand him in principle, but the reality is, as usual, more complex. What about the European companies that big investments and production in the USA? BMW, Mercedes?
They pay tax in the USA. Would Trump agree that, if he can take all the taxes from American companies, Germany take all of "theirs"? What about Luis Vuitton? Trump certainly seemed happy to be with them, cutting the ribbon.
But it would be typical Trump to not see, or simply ignore, booth balance and consequences. He just kicks all the hornet nests he can see and leave the world busy trying to handle the consequences.
Don't get me wrong, there are certainly many structures of power that would need to be altered, but without a strategy, the rebuilt power structures will not favor the one doing the kicking.
1
Trump owns a wine company, if I recall correctly. A 100% tariff on French wines directly helps Trump's bottom line. The only good thing about this proposed tariff is that for once, it affects luxury goods rather than everyday needs.
However, Trump continues to tax Americans through tariffs when he is displeased with other countries. He is doing the same with Brazil and Argentina right now. Does he really believe that Americans don't know they are the ones being hurt?
1
@Barbara:
Quote: "Does he really believe that Americans don't know they are the ones being hurt?"
But his base don't care that they're the ones being hurt (if they even recognize that fact). They don't care. They're only too happy to cut off their noses to spite their faces. It's an abiding feature of Trump supporters.
1
The digital taxes being enacted by many countries are a response to the existing international tax system not being appropriate for the digital economy. The existing system bases the right to tax on a physical presence in a country, since in the old economy it wasn't possible to conduct business without factories, warehouses or employees there. But the digital economy doesn't require any of those things to generate sales and profits in a country. So countries are starting go to a more sales based approach. This is similar to how states divide up the right to tax corporate profits in the US. The OECD initiative is very important, since it can result in a reasonably consistent system around the world for assigning the right to tax.
1
Note to the French: keep your tax on tech. Many of us will pay double for champagne. Taxing tech is long overdue in the U.S., and maybe your example will open our eyes to the evils of a system wherein rich corporations pay little or nothing, not even income tax, while Americans die from a lack of basic support systems, especially in health care.
3
From the Gayle King interview with Zuckerberg when she asked him about the private dinner he attended with Trump.
"Sure. I mean... we talked about a number of things that were — that were on his mind. And — and some of the topics that you'd read about in the news around — around our work."
King tells Zuck that the "optics weren't good" for the undisclosed meeting, and asks if Trump lobbied him in any way on the political ad issue, or any other issue.
"No. I mean, I don't think that that's... I think some of the stuff that people talk about or think gets discussed and these discussions are not really... how that works," Zuckerberg said, completely red in the face. "I also want to respect that it was a private dinner and... private discussion."
And there you have it. Not too complex.
1
It is high time that all the developed and developing countries come together, possibly through the UN, and end the tax arbitrage that corporations use to rip nations off or worse pit them against each other.
I find it abhorrent that poor cities and counties in the United states bend over backwards to give tax breaks/holidays to corporations - who use them and move on when the goodies expire. Leaches- each and every one of them
6
Could be the ' Archduke Franz Ferdinand' moment of economics?
1
France's digital tax sounds a lot like Paul Ryan's border adjustment tax, which he had pushed for years. Instead of multinational companies hiding in tax-friendly domiciles, they would be taxed on their actual profits in each country. We should be following suit. Disclosure: I don't own Facebook or Google stock.
37
@Judy
Paul Ryan's tax was stupid, and so is Macron's tax.
Corporations don't pay taxes - they pass them on to their customers. In the case of the "free" services like Facebook, they raise their advertising rates, and the companies that advertise charge more for their products and services. In any case, YOU pay the taxes.
1
I think the grander scheme here is to bring misery for a few months and then lift all the tariffs claim the recovery was Trump's doing. Same strategy all over again: create a crisis where none exists and claim to have solved it.
94
@Comeflywithme
...create a crisis where none exists and claim to have solved it.
Exactly right. Trump is like the Grinch -- he rips off Whoville (USA) with his dumb tariffs and other policy gaffes, then he 'fixes' the mess he created.
1
If France is going to tax our industries it makes sense for us to tax theirs.
12
@MIKEinNYC France is not taxing "your industries". It is (moderately) taxing footloose companies who are claiming to be industries of some Carribean islands, of Ireland, of the Netherlands, and of other territories where their most valuable assets (intellectual property) are phony-officially domiciled.
148
@MIKEinNYC
Facebook and Google are not "American" companies. They are monolithic giants, vying for world domination without paying a dime. They should be taxed appropriately in every country where they operate. And every country should be encouraging their populations to use their own servers.
You want political and economic isolation? You got it.
78
@Ricardo if you resent the success of American companies don't use their products. No one is forcing you to use Google, Microsoft, Apple, Intel and our other tech companies. Stick with your wine, upon which your own country levies taxes.
6
Through clever tax avoidance schemes these companies pay very little taxes in France. They generate revenue from French consumers, have dedicated staff, sell advertising, etc. I consider that to be an unfair competitive advantage over French firms who cannot escape taxation in France. It also represents a total disregard for the very principle of taxation. Americans may find it acceptable for corporations to pay zero taxes in the USA but I prefer the policy of everyone paying their “fair share” in each of the countries where they do business.
254
@j'ai deux amours Maybe now France has their head above the parapet, other countries could follow their lead, by copying their tax exactly. I believe it's not specific to American countries, but defined to attract taxes from large global players.
There has been "progress" reported on the OECD approach to the effective taxation of multinationals for years, but nothing ever actually happens as at some crucial stage corporate lobbying results in some kind of veto - normally from a tax haven country - and the progress is set back a decade or so.
Just adopting the same tax as France would avoid the need to get unanimous agreement and finally get passed the corporate defenders. As each new country adopts the tax, they become harder to intimidate. (I am Sparticus and I have a new corporate tax.)
11
@j'ai deux amours
I also believe that these tech companies should be taxed and pay their fair share. This is why America is in a downward spiral - big business basically owns our government.
13
@j'ai deux amours
Well as a French citizen if I subscribe to the online edition of New York times, should NY Times pay French taxes? How about someone who watches youtube videos, should google pay a tax amount commensurate with the advertising revenue generated from that user?
If NY Times pays a French tax and German tax etc, that would mean that those countries are benefiting even though the Times uses US infrastructure for its reporting costs etc for providing that service to other countries.
Taxation shows up when NY Times delivers a physical paper as it uses French tax payer resources such as roads etc. Not the same when it uses no tax payer resources. Internet service or wireless services is paid for by the individual user.
7
Many comments are knee-jerk criticism of US tech firms, ignoring the facts that the French crafted their new taxes to primarily impact US firms, and not French/EU firms. Also, they ignore the article's mention of WTO rulings against the French/EU, and the fact those rulings have been flouted! Further impacting relations (not directly tax related) are the facts that the EU nations have not fulfilled their commitments regarding spending for our common defense.
5
A perfect example of the amount of resources the US government spends to protect corporations like Google and Facebook. We will pay double for french wine because Google and Facebook don’t want to pay a French tax, however nominal it is, to save their bottom line. So this is also a perfect example of exactly why Google and Facebook should not only pay their taxes but pay a lot more. They exist because of us.
220
@JYoung Euro tariff on American autos is twice what US hits Euro auto imports with. Explain why out of work auto workers in Lordstown, Ohio, should worry about what your’e paying for wine in Park Slope.
13
@JPE simply because the US cars are of low quality... Lower taxes would only help them marginally.
50
@JPE Live in your disinformation bubble if you prefer, but you don't get to tell lies without rebuttal. US tariffs are twice as high as OECD countries, and EU contains most of the OECD countries.
70% of US profits from auto sales are generated by the sale of SUVs. US tariffs on European "light trucks" is 25% and has been for decades.
So reality is US auto companies are global parasites, while US autoworkers are welfare queens pimped out by US presidents.
60
Trump has driven me to drink and now he will make it more expensive for me when I am in the U.S.
5
Buy California wines. They’re much better than the French wines.
1
STAY AWAY FROM WINE TARIFFS!!! I need my French wine during these very difficult times.
5
@atb Do what I just did. Stock up on French wine now.
Let’s be clear: the retaliation is not on French wine. It’s on Macron.
Everything for Trump is personal. Has nothing to do with patriotism or benefit to America.
Macron outstaged him earlier. Trump needs to put him in place for his massive ego.
5
If US monopolistic 'technology' firms, like Google and Facebook, derive income from ads and other sources from French businesses and citizens, then France has every right to tax those activities.
Trump's policies smack of extortion. Not surprising since his 'mentor, Roy Cohn, was a mob lawyer, and his other partners Russian mobsters.
4
“And did I mention that Trump Vineyards has a very nice 2016 vintage Chardonnay? Only $18.99. Perfect complement to Christmas dinner.”
2
And, remember, now, follow me here, part of Trump’s tariff “logic” is informed by his teetotaler preference for American wines because of, yes, “the way they look”. In his deep state of perversion, 45 has transformed tasting notes into eyeballing notes. Brain death, anyone?
1
But California wine it’s better....
2
Good grief. Enough with the trade wars, Mr. Potus
1
This will help California and Trump hates California.
3
French wines can handle the tax. Chin drinks more French wines then the US currently. Technology will be taxed in Europe . It’s really not an unfair tax given that Microsoft, Apple, Facebook , and Google worth over $5 to $6 trillion. Apple hardly pays any taxes .
3
@Ralph Petrillo A 100% tariff on French wines will destroy many French wineries, not to say many small US businesses. Yes, China takes quite a bit of high-end French wine, but the smaller wineries are a different story. There are many small to medium-sized French wineries that sell a very high percentage of their wines in the US. Those wineries will be crushed by a high tariff.
@Bob R
No it won’t they will sell to the rest of the world. The French can make billions off of US tech companies and subsidize their wine industry.
2
It seems to me that a tariff on French wines could only serve to help California wine companies. He is also coming to the defense of California based social media companies.
So, in order to punish the irritating, effete country if France, Trump must help his nemesis, the deeply loathed dark blue state of California. Such a dilemma for Trump and the GOP!
4
The Rolling Stones are a Dutch company based in Amsterdam.
3
@Simon van Dijk
Yes the drug addicted band didn’t want to pay their fair shsre if taxes to help the people of England.
1
Why doesn't Congress, and specifically House Democrats, re-assert their constitutional authority to regulate tariffs?
10
I wish more countries would increase tariffs on the USA, at least until Trump is gone.
5
Heard US companies make Billions in foreign countries and using fuzzy accounting loopholes pay almost no tax in those countries. Read these US companies have shell companies offshore allowing them to skip normal EU taxes. Finally Macron is this issue and demanding these US companies pay their fair tax share to France. If any US company makes money in France they should pay taxes on it and should US raise taxes on EU products in retaliation then EU should do the same. Bear in mind those EU products already are taxed by the US government. Maybe the reason these US giant companies are so rich is because using accounting loopholes they don't pay their fair taxes to the EU.
8
They don't pay US taxes either. See FedEx paying zero in taxes for 2018 after the Trump tax bill went into effect. Nice. Seems only those of us not millionaires are the ones paying taxes.
7
@VB Huh? FedEx is a American company. Last time I bought French wine there seemed to be plenty of tax on it. If Google or any other foreign company makes money in France the French say they should pay fair tax on it don't you agree?. The same absolutely with foreign companies making money here.
2
I didn't see that anybody but the author noticed that the WTO is involved in this exchange. It is not famously pro-American.
1
@Bruce Williams
The majority of Americans see Trump as the least pro-American thing about America and Trumpers in general as discards on the losing side of history. Not much to be pro-American about at this time is there?...except for a quick and decisive impeachment.
5
Why would you expect the WORLD Trade Organization to preferentially benefit one specific country?
1
I wonder if the French wine tax will reduce DUIs; a potential unexpected benefit.
3
@PaulN More likely it will drive more people to drink, and to drink cheap, high-alcohol stuff.
1
Amusing how Liberal the Silicon Valley is on every issue except unfettered capitalism. Confiscate the profits of trillion dollar companies. Certainly not. Tax million dollar homes to house the homeless. No. Tax six figure salaries to provide for those with four figure incomes. Again no. But the Silicon Valley is strong on LGBT rights so being arch conservatives on taxation is balanced out.
1
Silicon Valley has always been conservative. Ask any woman or person of color who has worked there. Not exactly equal opportunity companies. And you may want to check out what Elizabeth Warren says about the tech companies. Believe it or not, you may agree with her.
3
@Rick: Who said that the people at the top and the shareholder of Silicon Valley firms are liberals? They are mostly wealthy politically conservative people.
2
"Trade wars are easy to win."
I'm not sure if this counts as one of Trump's lies, or just illustrates his ignorance. Or both.
5
How canny. Red states aren’t going to care about the cost of French wine and cheese because they’re not buying it anyway- you can bet Trump would be hands-off if they did.
2
@Concordata and I believe it's just the Sparkling Wines (e.g., Champagne) that are under this tariff. So even less concern by such groups.
1
Trump is determined to raise our cost of living, not our living standards.
13
It takes a lot of nerve for President Trump to threaten tariffs and taxes while at the same time fighting tooth and nail to keep his own tax evasion history secret.
22
Just when stocks were starting to rise again, Trump announces more tariffs. Trump seems dead set on causing as much economic damage as possible. Can we impeach him for insane decision making?
1
@Mr. Adams
You already are trying to impeach him for having won 2016, what do you want more ??
1
@Mr. Adams He is manipulating the market for his selfish gain.
1
Does that mean Americans will be restricted to Sonoma County vintages?
1
@G. Stoya; The horror, the horror! Don't worry there are more and more French vintners opening vineyards in Sonoma Country.
Are there any friends and allies who we haven't offended?
Are there any enemies not encouraged by Trump?
10
Please, please no. My wife and I have been relying heavily on French wine to get us through this nightmare. Can President Philistine just chill out on the tariffs? It’s like he only knows how to do two things; lie and tariff.
11
@Dudesworth: You are saved! We Californians have got your back. There are several very good French Wine companies now in the Napa Valley. Since their wine is not "French" Trump can't put tariffs on their wines!
@Jeff Indeed! California has much to be proud of. I’m saving a bottle of 2007 Dominus Estate for election night 2020 (if Trump loses). If he wins it’ll be whiskey mixed with hemlock.
A stiff tariff on French wine? That would benefit California, so that ain't gonna to happen
7
@bmesc So true, We already have several French owned vineyards and wineries here in CA. We'd be glad to see you real "French" style wine make here.
I am hoping that Trump's tariffs on such French goods as cheese, sparkling wine, handbags and makeup will finally--finally!--push the high-roller Republicans against him.
4
Trump couldn't care less about French wine. French fries would be a much different story.
7
@Mpc Funny you should mention, as there may be a french fry shortage due to a poor potato crop. "Cold and wet weather this year has stunted the growth of potatoes. U.S. potato producers are having to turn to foreign producers to help make up for the loss and the U.S. Department of Agriculture forecasts that potato production will drop a little over 6% for the year, the lowest drop since 2010."
trump has done a lot of awful things, but now he's coming for my bordeaux and camembert??? that's cold.
10
So I guess we know what the "secret meeting" between Trump and Zuckerberg was about. Wonder what the quid pro quo was?
7
"Wine Could Face 100% Tariffs"
Let us know when they do. They could also be 50% or 25% or at the moment of Trump's new tariffs to begin, he could realize what a great people the French are and change his mind or he could forget about the tariff, or any of a million things could happen that pop into his twitter tweets that the NYT's is following with baited breath
1
Trump is right to go to bat for American companies, especially in this situation. Why should Americans company be hit but not French?
Those cheering on Macron don't care what happens to Americans as long as they get their daily fix for their Trump animus.
5
This liberal agrees with you. I think the tech companies should pay American taxes as well as French taxes. Because right now under that latest tax bill passed, they are paying nothing to the US treasury.
2
Facebook and Google, or any other “Multinational Corporation” should not have it both ways.
They claim to be “U.S., or American companies” when they use U.S. lobbyists and presidents to help them.......but when ( and where ) they pay taxes is decided its Bermuda, Ireland,or the Netherlands ( or all 3) Or some island off Europe. I think most of this latest “France tax issue” discussion is that a U.S. President is deciding that taxing a multinational company doing business in France is unfair, while those that understand U.S. corporate tax benefits/loopholes know we should be taxing them much more here!
Wherever these taxes go, they’re never coming back to the U.S, and our debt grows daily.
2
@PM: Why is it unfair to tax a US country that operates in Europe. Would it be unfair to tax an european company doing business in the US? Oh, I forget, the last 3 Republican governments created a loophole that does not tax US companies on their operations in other countries. Now they rage about those other countries taxing American businesses operating in those countries.
France is right to tax these tech giants. Here, thanks to Trump, they pay no taxes and help destroy our elections and violate our privacy. Macron is better to us than Trump is.
10
If you look into the details, the French law , regardless of its merits - violates EU regulations. It is been tailored to tax American Internet companies but NOT French internet companies
"The law imposes a 3% tax on companies with digital revenue of at least 750 million euros ($836 million) worldwide and 25 million euros in France."
Pay attention to the numbers - it is very clearly a law that shields EVERY French internet company from the tax, but subjects Google and Facebook. to it
Illegal under EU law, and as will become apparent , illegal under WTO regulations as well
I am personally in favour of taxing internet companies, but you can not pick and choses whom to tax or not.
Not under the rules of free trade of services
9
@Woof your puppy looks smart
@Woof How can it be breaking EU rules since the USA is not a member of the EU?
Why cry over one hundred percent added to French wine when everyone knows California wines beat French in most blind tests.
8
@Jerry Davenport - Perhaps because most Cali wines spike their products with a higher alcohol content...
8
Maybe with sparkling water
1
@Jerry Davenport Give me a nice French Sancerre or white Bordeaux over a California wine any day!
2
FaceBook and Google are American companies? They produce a product? They make billions of dollars profit, and do they pay any taxes in the United States? Aren't they like Amazon and many other "American" companies?
That Trump and members of his Administration equate those Tech companies with real world important products such as French wine and cheese is outrageous!
10
@James Barth Data is the most valuable commodity on earth and those companies control it.
1
Not to worry. I'm sure that Trump will tell us that the French government is paying the tax and our Treasury Dept. is being enriched by it. Since we are making so money off of the Chinese tariffs, we should just impose a 100% tariff tax on all imports from everywhere. Then we could reduce income taxes and have our nation funded by foreign governments. That is, if Trump is telling the truth about who pays these tariff taxes.
11
A 100% tariff on French wines?? OK now I'll take to the streets.
28
A digital tax is incomprehensible.
It's not as if France or the EU is using government services to facilitate digital commerce
It makes about as much sense as taxing someone for reading NYTimes articles or talking to someone
7
@James
Companies should pay taxes on their profits: this is true for digital as well as physical products.
We can reasonably talk about how or where they should be taxed, but not whether they should be taxed.
As to your example, clearly the profits of the NYTimes are taxed, and so should google, twitter etc.
8
@James I'm afraid you are missing the point. Digital business (applications, streaming, advertisement revenues) of the named companies is done in Europe/France but taxes are paid somewhere else or not paid at all.
9
@James These technology companies are sucking revenue out of France (and other countries) and not giving a thing back. They are pulling much advertising revenue for local products and services away from French media.
Is it any of the U.S. government's concern that Google or Facebook pay a tax? Can anyone guess who Trump will say pays the tariff?
12
Once again, the Trump family is tied up in the businesses impacted by his presidency. American wineries, including the one owned by Eric Trump, will benefit from this tariff.
23
@Just Me — Until some of us wake up to the fact that the First Family is nothing more than a clan of grifters, this “We’re fighting for YOU, America!” nonsense will continue. Being President is the best gig Trump could ever hope for — no personal risk, much personal reward.
The only interest the Trump family has is itself. Isn’t that crystal clear by now?
1
Our states have similar taxes. I don't see the difference. This is bullying behavior we have come to expect. And the next president will be stunned at how few allies the U.S. she has when an international problem occurs, or we want help in a war.
15
@Karen
Unless they see us holding each one of these Putin assets accountable and severely punish them. That is the only way to regain their trust. It is also the only way for Americans to trust government again.
I would assume that responding to France's tech tax was on the agenda (among many other things that we'll apparently never know about) when Trump and Zuckerberg had their "secret" meeting back in October. Just sayin'.
13
Hmmmmmm, the happened last year. Trump is manipulating the markets for personal gain.
19
I don't like to buy myself things during the holiday season, but I'll be restocking my favorite makeup items, all from French companies, as makeup is going to be included in this round of tariffs.
It is almost as if Trump is targeting LVMH with these tariffs.
10
So if the tariffs affect Airbus, does that mean we are forced to fly in death trap aircraft built by Boeing? Great logic bone spurs.
17
Under this administration does anyone believe that the analysis done by the US trade office was based on fact? They are part of the group that denies climate change and claims to not be able to see bribery when incontrovertible evidence is placed before them.
Nowhere do I see that the French tax is on anything but transactions that take place in France. If I own a magazine and I create a French edition which no doubt has offices in France, would it be unfair to tax my ad sales in France? Of course not. Just because the product only exists in cyberspace doesn't change the fundamentals.
18
One of the issues is that the EU needs to get its act together. Companies can book their profits in low tax countries advantageous such as Ireland and Netherlands while selling in other high tax countries EU countries such as France. This would fix some of the issues with taxing the profits of companies such as Facebook etc in Europe. However, this is not easy to fix because those countries eg Ireland want it this way!
5
@A. Raymond
"The EU needs to get its act together."
Pot, meet kettle.
1
Since the Internet via the World Wide Web is virtually everywhere, I can't see how a country can tax Internet companies that do not have a physical presence there. Is a virtual presence (on a French computer screen) enough to tax an entity whose server is in another country? How do you compute the tax? I must be missing something.
4
@THOMAS WILLIAMS
It's a tax on profits made from French consumers.
11
@THOMAS WILLIAMS This is advertising to French residents for French products and services in lieu of local advertising.
1
@THOMAS WILLIAMS
There are French advertising dollars to be taxed.
Sticking tariffs on French wines? Wow, in Europe delicious French wines sell for 6 dollars in the store and already cost $20-$30 in the wine store up the block in Chicago. Who is going to pay for these tariffs except those of us who drink wine? What is Trump talking about?
King Trump has the "magic" touch. Whatever he touches, then there is chaos. Isn't a bit of chaos in wine pricing desirable? I doubt it. And chaos in international relationships, to say nothing about our America, is doubtlessly not desirable.
19
I only drink French wines because their wines have less preservatives. I am allergic to the preservatives used in American wines. And in my experience French wines taste better. I will take a French Pinot Noir over any American wine.
23
France is not alone is seeking to tax Facebook and Google for their activities. South Korea has been considering just such a tax as well while they have been taking an absolute beating from the US/PRC tariff war (exports down by 14.3% from a year earlier in November for a sixth straight double-digit decline).
Yeah, I would say it's past time to tax American tech companies and spread some of that tax dodge around.
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The French have for years been very clever with keeping US products out of their country. Now that America is retaliating, are they calling foul. The door swings both ways.
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@Pepperman
If you walk through any French town, American products and companies are everywhere.
The issue here is that companies selling products in France to French consumers should pay taxes in France, just like what us ordinary US citizens are required to do when we work in France!
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@Pepperman
Exactly. Trump is taking on their protectionist measures. Hard not to support this.
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@Pepperman
Any shred of evidence?
American citizens should have at least the same rights as corporations. We should be able to live in any country that accepts us and pay the tax of the country we live in and if outside the USA we would not have to pay US taxes.
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@Robert John you still have to pay us taxes.
We should be trading more with high wage countries and less with ones that primarily just take our manufacturing. We could benefit from a TTIP without the awful arbitration court-not-court and one that offsets costs of clean energy use and production as the US is now a rogue climate change country.
Trump did a good thing confronting China but now he’s just a loose cannon shooting in all directions.
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@Liz Confronting China is all well and good, but the Trump Administration appears to have done little to none in counteracting one of one of China’s most egregious set of behaviors- the theft of our intellectual property.
I was wondering if the Tax that Macron wants to put on the techs. is analogous to the taxes that US states want to impose on online purchases.
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As if the US government never subsidized Boeing. Or our farmers. Or are petroleum industry. Or allow major corporations to set up head offices offshore to escape taxes. This is disingenuous. Its Trump appeasing his base and throwing up tariffs against everyone because he said he would in his campaign. His base doesn't understand the contradiction, as I doubt he does either.
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What will take its place? Why, the fine wines produced in the tRump vineyards, in California. Delicious, basically unsaleable (urp) tRump Wine! Yum! Just one more violation of the emoluments clause. How much evidence do you need?
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@ChesBay We have French companies produce very good wine here in California.
Not only President Trump is whining about the French but now he wants to tax the french wine. The Americans could be whining over the cost of french wine.
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@Wilbray Thiffault I like what you did there.
Do you think the rest of the world isn't taking steps to reduce their dependence on an increasingly unreliable and untrustworthy United States? Trump is engineering the slow death of American dominance in world affairs, economically, and in influence. When the world's most powerful country turns all the reins over to an uneducated, unbriefable, incurious, expert-phobic fool, bad things are going to happen. Trump can do his best to snow people with bravado and scapegoats, but reality cannot be denied forever. When it does finally intrude, it's going to get very, very ugly.
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@Rob I sometimes wonder if those "tapes" do exist and Putin reminds every so often of their release. Trump's engineering of the slow death of America is straight out of the KGB handbook. This is not normal.
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@Rob
Well said.
I will continue to buy French products as they seem to be the only country in the world that will stand up to Trump's lies. The real distressing part is that I am paying more taxes to my country's coffers, Google, Amazon, Facebook etc pay none. Truly a disgrace.
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@John Edelmann Trump pays none, either.
Another ham-fisted intervention into a U.S. market. If President "Mr. Trade Wars Are Easy" forces up the prices on French wines, he'll have created a large opening for the better California wines (among others)---and there are quite a few. They'll no doubt be very happy to step in and will likely increase prices as well (while still coming in under the French wines).
But---hey---the orange menace doesn't drink, and his friends are rich, and this helps him look like a tough guy again, so why would he care?
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My understanding is that in the US it is the states that give the huge subsidies and sweetheart deals. So a huge corporation can threaten to move to another state and essentially auction their presence. I know this doesn’t fully explain the digital tax loophole, where the tax should be paid where the transactor resides, but it still means the US hide many of their uncompetitive subsidies at the state level. This Trump character is killing the world of the joy of trade by making it about himself and not the greater citizenry. What a sad fellow.
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Trump is running this country like he ran his businesses - into the ground. Everything is transactional, everything is "unfair," and so Americans pay, literally, for this unfairness in tariffs. I find it very hard to believe that France's tech taxes would harm such tech giants as Google; clearly, there's another reason for this antagonism, even if it's nothing more than Trump showing off for his fans in order to look like impeachment is the furthest thing from his mind.
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But no quid pro quo, right?
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Doesn't it seem a little coincidental that France has become Trump's latest tariff target right around the same time that Macron pushed Trump's narcissistic defensive button with Macron's comments about NATO not being able to count on America...Me thinks this new round of tariffs on the French has more to do with Trump being faithful to his narcissistic nature by punishing those that don't worship at his altar.
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@GBrown Exactly so in the same way he tries to bankrupt California for not rolling over for him...
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@GBrown: Macron knows the truth about Trump. If you know the character of a person by the company he keeps then think about Trump's "Friends" like Putin, Kim Jong Un and Duatre and his "unfriends" like Merlke, Macron and other democratically elected leaders.
we all know there is a trump winery in virginia, right? coincidence?
the wines aren't any good (plus, the labels are atrocious), so they need all the help they can get..
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@kran r.
He hasn't tanked that business yet?
I see there are people commenting on this who have never had the misfortune of drinking American wine.
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@Saverino I guess you've never heard of the Judgment of Paris? American wines are excellent, and have been for decades.
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I see there’s people here who clearly don’t know much about American wine...
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@Name
Consider the absurd price differential between the two countries. Hard to get a decent CA wine for less than $50. Many, many good French one from the South for $20 or less. Even with 100% tariff, they will still be cheaper (and better). If the criteria are alcohol content and fruitiness our CA wines win hands down.
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But the children, think the children
I already have a wine cellar brimming with 2000 Bordeaux's so this isn't about me, it is about the wineos or the future.
Little children facing a 100% tax on future vintages, or confronted with a life of, dare I say it: California wine.
Now there is grounds for impeachment.
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@Good John Fagin I am a Francophile but you ought to try some California wines. Open your mind. They are pretty darn good, dare I say it, greta. I am from the East Coast so I know best.
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@one percenter
This isn't about wine! This about Trump and turmoil.
9
It will be interesting to learn post-Black Friday/Cyber Monday how much dough was spent on imports compared to US manufacturing. DJT and Wilbur Ross expects a swift flow of dollars to American companies when foreign goods are too pricey. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Meanwhile, Americans pony up for everything x 2.
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@ABaron If a foreign product is better than an American at comparable price, I'll go for the better product in a heartbeat.
As usual he forgets that French companies like Criteo will also pay the digital tax while plundering our privacy.
2
Don't worry.
The collapse of our economy due to tariffs - really taxes on Americans - will be like nothing you've ever seen.
It will be huge.
A blockbuster.
And as nobody will have any money, who cares what French wines cost?
Donnie Jr.and Eric are rushing more Trump wines to market.
It's all good.
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So what national security issue allows trump to levy tariffs on French wine? Is a threat to a monopoly's excess profits something that trump needs to concern himself with?
If he or his team had our interests in mind, he would be taxing Facebook and Amazon as well. The companies make billions slipping between the cracks of local tax laws. They can afford it.
Expect retaliation and another trade war trump won't win.
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@Zeke27: I just love it! France hates all things Californian but by taxing French wine he is giving us an economic boost. If Trump keeps us up we will move from the 5th largest economy in the world to the 4th largest. Who knew that in his "heart" Trump loves us Californians! We still will not vote for him.
In announcing the proposed tariffs on French imports Trump boasted of the “massive amounts of money” that would flow into the US Treasury. He still will not acknowledge, or genuinely does not believe that US importers pay the tariffs, not the French or the Chinese. He thinks, or at least says, that the tariffs are a net gain to the US economy. Is he deliberately lying, or do his minders have no control over him at all? Why does he say these things? How is any progress possible if he’s playing Calvinball (look it up) and the rest of the world is acknowledging certain facts to be true and playing by an agreed set of rules? What can we do, apart from wait until November 2020? This is ruinous.
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I’m all for taxes on Facebook and Google in countries in which they profit as a matter of fact they should’ve paying much greater taxes period considering the disruptive nature of their business model, with respect to decimating the newspaper industry, along with good reporting; or is google now sending their own reporters into harms way to get important world news, nope didn’t think so they like so much of the tech business rely on the labor or free information given up by others for their profit as they pass along second hand news: as for Facebook I don’t actually know anyone who engages in their drivel, personally I’m not interested in reading about the minutiae of everyone’s life nor am I interested in sharing mine. As for the French Wine and cheese or for that matter anything produced by countries with similar wage scales and standards of living, why have tariffs period, as for China, Mexico and the other developing countries used by our “ entrepreneurs to line their own pockets while stiffing American and European labor, sock it to them, in many cases 100% isn't enough unless we want our own workers to compete with Chinese slave labor living in chicken wire bunk beds or actual prisons where for instance much of the Chinese garlic is peeled before shipment. The Chinese want to own us and the world, we have unleashed a monster, I’m not sure anything can be done about it beside tariffs ruthlessly enforced, and cutting off educating their masses to take away our jobs.
11
Honestly it seems like every time Trump takes an international trip, he then starts a kerfuffle with an ally when he returns. Trump has never found a trade negotiation that he couldn’t escalate into a crisis and he has no respect for things such as holidays. So, the season of angst has begun.
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@Covert ….Speaking of a Kerfuffle....since the China Trade War has not been easily won...aren't we American Taxpayers due to subsidize our farmers again? After all...we are heading into Christmas...we need to get our checkbooks ready and remember those among us who are less fortunate!!
12
@Dave re Farmers most are huge corporations not the "little farmer" that the pols like to wheel out for the photo op.
1
We should try to avoid jeopardizing international efforts again in this case on digital taxes. The challenge is trying to hold together what we can until November 2020 when yes we’re hoping for & working toward a miracle here in America that is that the people wake up and elect representatives who actually represent them.
20
While Trump is acting like the village idiot with his daily on-off tariffs across the globe, he is at least raising the issue of the need for some international agreement on taxes on global businesses. As the world's wealth moves increasingly toward electrons and away from material things that can be held in a hand, it is absolutely necessary. With that said, good luck taking money away from the global oligarchs.
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@Mister Ed
Coincidentally the sanctions Trump imposed in Venezuela helped Rusal, and this helps Putin’s negotiations with France.
What Trump does, is consistently helpful to Russia. Meanwhile high profile Republicans are spreading conspiracy theories that originated in the Russian security services.
The Red Party sure seems to support Russia more than America.
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Trump will make Russia great again.
I mean what to expect from a guy (called president by some) who only drinks Diet Coke even at a first-class dinner?
And like always with taxes: it’s not the country of origin that pays for the taxes - it’s the American consumer.
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@Oliver ….Is it possible that Trump's bizarre behavior could be explained by his excess consumption of caffeine from his diet Cokes? Wouldn't it be something if he switched to the Caffeine free Coke and his moods stabilized? After all.... he has claimed for some time now ..to be a....stable genius ! Somebody get the man a Doctor !!
2
Trump is a protectionist in the tradition of the 1920s.
Being a profound student of history, Trump is undoubtedly unaware of the economic consequences of this love of tariffs in a global economy. Would the year 1929 ring a bell in his stable genius brain?
I doubt it. Who are his economic advisors? Do any ever dissent from his abuse of his tariff powers? Do they calculate the cost to American consumers?
Does Trump knows who pays tariffs? Does he care?
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Zuckerberg’s decision not to limit mendacious advertising explained. He has purchased himself a President. Bravo.
But no quid pro quo here, either.
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@Jo Lynne Lockley
Well, he did have a private meeting with Trump. There is a symbiotic relationship between FB and Trump who was helped in the 2016 election by FB’s policy of allowing lots of “fake news” favorable to Trump pollute their space.
19
Understatement of the year award : "While past administrations have treated European leaders as close economic allies, the Trump administration has taken a more adversarial approach." No, ya think?...
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