I do not believe that US can come out triumphant vis-à-vis. China in the ongoing trade tussle.
China appears to have been able to largely separate the political institutions of a Leninist State with single party dominance from its economic of state ownership of all means of production. With this unique feat, China one stroke managed to achieve best of Capitalistic economy within a Leninist State. This is an extremely significant event enabling Chinese leadership extremely nimble as against American system.
According to Toynbee society develops into a civilisation when it is confronted with a challenge which it successfully meets in such a way as to lead it on to further challenges. Toynbee believes that the ideas and methods for meeting the challenges for a society come from a creative minority. The ideas and methods developed by the creative minority are copied by the majority. Thus there are two essential and separate steps in meeting a challenge: the generation of ideas and the imitation/adoption of those ideas by the majority. This is exactly what China trying to accomplish.
On the contrary present day America by every indication of a failed society where the creative minority do not command the respect of the majority through the brilliance and rightness of their solutions to the political problems and challenges.
5
The NYT is much too optimistic. Dictators always put their survival as Job #1. And the Chinese Communist Party is the dictator of China. If the U.S. pushes them to the point where they have to choose between total control and flexibility with Hong Kong, I'm taking the CCP and giving the points. I am not worried about an all-out Trade war; I'm worried about an all-out Shooting war.
2
Notwithstanding some Hong Kongers giving misguided thanks to Donald Trump, I do not trust him to abide by the act based on the man’s innate character and affinity to autocrats. Nevertheless, this bipartisan gesture presents a united front, a rarity these days, reflecting not only of the will of the lawmakers, be they Republican or Democrat, but also of the American people and the Chinese diaspora overseas. I am proud of the brave youth of Hong Kong who are on the right side of history, taking the lead against the totalitarian leadership which should have no place in an enlightened world.
3
Which economy do you think will get hurt more by the canceling of the special tariff treatment of Hong Kong? It is Hong Kong economy that will bear the brunt of the damage. In the past, China has given HK special treatment by allowing RMB to be traded in HK, stock issues and trading and purchase of domestic and foreign stocks etc. to help shore up HK economy. What one would watch for is whether there would be essentially a slow down or an end of any special treatment HK had been enjoying so far and how that accelerate the decline in HK importance in the World and Chinese economy.
US producers are already "assembling" final products in Vietnam, Thailand, and other countries, and Chinese capital already have a huge global presence, which is the cause of US consternation over China's economic and financial clout.
3
Yes, there are extreme violations of human rights in Hong Kong. We are right to condemn them. But why are we silent about the violations of human rights in India ? Its citizens are starving in poverty and drowning in sewage because of the corrupt practices of their government officials. When will we loudly condemn these outrages conditions on the poor of India ? When will we impose sanctions on the corrupt politicians of India as we have on Iran ?
5
@James Nowak Oh India is friendly to America and therefore can do no wrong for her people. That's the double standards and hypocrisy lending to America's lack of credibilty.
3
Hong Kong, like it or not, is Chinese territory. America believes that it has the right to impose sanctions on Chinese officials for human rights abuses in Hong Kong. That means China and other countries have the right to impose sanctions on American officials for human rights abuses in the US. I seem to recall one American official protecting war criminals from justice. If that is not abuse of human rights, I don't know what is.
4
@A Cynic And what about the human rights of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqs that died? And what of the human rights of the million Syrian refugees?
2
Despite showing apparent annoyance with the Trump signed democracy legislation for Hong Kong China knows well it can outplay Trump as usual even on the trade front, as the US business and consumers have no alternative, at least for now, than to depend on the Chinese goods and other trade supplies.
3
I celebrate the success tonight in Hong Kong. Patriots everywhere can be happy democracy has won in Hong Kong.
This is something to celebrate.
5
@K.M What exactly have the people in HK won with this declaration? Nada. The people in HK forget that China can do without HK, but HK cannot do without China. If you believe otherwise, you are a dreamer.
1
@K.M What happiness? Hk is going to lose its favored status soon and guess who will suffer? China? No, it's the HKers that will suffer.
2
The only way China can retaliate, and it will bear a cost to do it, is to put a stall on the phase 1 trade deal.
That would likely cause stock markets to decline at least temporary.
2
The matter is microcosmic of a biological process. The CCP is among civil society's healthy elements, antibodies to infectious social ills, e.g. hooliganism. Take all the meds until you're sure the infection is gone.
I think Trump was wrong to sign this. We can do nothing about the protests ,thus it was nothing but an empty gesture. China is important for trade and we don't want to spoil the negotiations. The U.S. has a bad habit of making empty gestures when we can do nothing to help protesters.
Remember how our words caused many deaths in the Hungarian uprising when people believed we would come to their aid. We need to stop with empty words!
4
@Judy Weller,
I agree. Hong Kong people are cheering for the bill. But in all reality what US can actually do to help them if it comes to it?
3
Wrong. The U.S. needs to speak up for freedom around the world, especially with the Chinese government, which is evil and must reform. We can’t (and should not) always intervene but every great American President has spoken up against communism and for the ideals we hold dear. Not signing this bill because of concerns over trade would be cowardice and a failure of American leadership. Thank goodness our government has more sense and courage than what you suggest.
6
@Judy Weller,
This law can helps Hong Kong protestors because most of the Hong Kong and Chinese government officials (or their families) have assets in US. They also like to obtain visa to travel to America. These officials need to balance their acts to please both the Chinese Communist Party and the US government.
2
Remarkable. Something equivalent to "mission creep" is being attempted in the Hong Kong initiative. A hijacking of the rationale for a trade war. But, most likely, it will fail. Hong Kong has never been a democratic bastion. Its purpose, from inception (cerca 1842), has been international finance and commerce. (It has always remained unaligned in any previous Western Pacific Rim regional controversies, post WWII.) Arguably, Hong Kong, in its past, has assisted China in the severe trade imbalance America now endures. The issue in the US-Trade War will continue (and should continue) to be solely the unequivocal protection of American markets, manufacturing, intellectual property and its citizens. Any deviation from that course is a distraction, and will result in stunning defeat at the polls.
2
Trade with China is slow suicide. And dollars China gets from USA are then used by China
to destroy democracy.
11
@ABC Comparative advantage lies in China's courts in manufacturing. Even Trump knows that which why it's a tariff he's imposing not an embargo.
But a tariff will only end up with American consumers paying higher prices. If you are serious about being used by China, then stop all trade period. Then over time America might , might just gain back its manufacturing capability but it will only be selling to patriotic Americans because the prices will be much higher.
Communist China -which is how we should all refer to it - represents an existential threat to subsequent generations of Americans.
We all know what they are stealing, manipulating, building, exploiting, and repressing around the planet. Of which their exploitation of mineral resources in the continent of Africa is particularly insidious because they are using corrupt governments to steal the people’s resources while adding an extra layer of repression on those populations.
And as hideous as Donald Trump is, he is the only American President to take China on at their level. And that just needs to be part of the conversation.
And I also want to hear all our candidates drilled on how they will deal with Communist China in detail.
10
@Salvatore That is so 60s thinking. Communism is not the beast that has been portrayed. In the case of China, communist party has lifted over 700 million out of poverty. Is that bad thing?
The ideological war was geopolitical based. It's Russia , China the main communists against America and her allies.
But the ideology itself is not wrong. It might be for America but not for them. Different history and circumstances dictate their evolution. One might even argue that America does not have a democracy but a plutocracy. It's an illusion pulled over citizens that they have a choice.
6
@Salvatore
You are going to have a difficult time with the 21st C. The PRC has passed the USA in PPP count and with its emphasis on leading technology will some pass in GNP as well. Its population is stable, NYT’s articles aside, and so likelihood of regime change slight. And it is nuclearly armed so foreign intervention unlikely. Maybe the US will learn to live in second place, for the benefit of all.
Trump likely knows all that.
1
@Salvatore Wait a moment: what did the West do with the colonies, and the US with the oil in the Middle East? Did we not plunder these countries of their resources? How was that different from what China is doing today?
2
America should stop this charade of trying to support HK in her quest for democracy. It's plainly transparent that it's all about cutting China to size. America has a track record that supports democracy when it suits her. Look at the undemocratic countries which America are big supporters of and democratic countries that America has issues with.
It's clear that as long as a country is friendly with America , she does little to no wrong . But when not, everything she does is under a microscope and given a negative spin. It's all about self interest, America's.
Democracy to a population of 7 million WILL destabilize the mainland of 1.4 BILLION. That is not something to make light of. Read up on China's history especially the 20th century , what will be apparent is the turmoil and instability she experienced and the attendant millions of deaths .
China now enjoys success only for the last 30 years and is stable at last. She is not going to risk another era of instability if HK is given democacy. The risk is too high.
HK has always belonged to China. She was taken under an illegal opium war "agreement". It's time she returned to China.
6
@FrazierCrane
HK belongs to its people and China will prove to be an enemy of the US. You will have to chose sides, when it comes down to it.
@FrazierCrane
As Thomas Friedman said "... the great mistake that autocrats regularly make is thinking that they can thrive indefinitely..."
1
@Pat HK was, is and will always be part of China. She was taken illegally because she lost a war that she couldn't defend against a stronger military force. It was the Opium war that caused her to lose HK and suffer the humiliation for a century. China was trying to prevent a pernicious drug trade harming her people but couldnt . Might was right and China learnt a very bitter lesson which explains part of her behavviour today.
So Trump does the exact same thing that Obama or Clinton, or Bush would have done. He signed human rights legislation. I wonder when the commentators here will thank him.
BTW, the present administration also signed legislation condemning the Chinese government's behavior of oppressing journalists in the Tibetan zone. Don't think there is much chance of the left recognizing either positive development. Can anyone say 'negative filtering', a common human error bias in which we find reasons to condemn others for behaviors we would otherwise find acceptable, appropriate, or even laudable.
10
The legislation was passed through Congress with no real opposition. You know, everything doesn’t have to be political. Democratic nations tend to support other democracies from being destroyed. That said, I was not taught to worship the US President when I was growing up, so why should I be thanking any President for doing their job? Presidents should be supporting US interests. So I don’t quite understand this collective freak-out by so many US citizens when President Trump isn’t worshipped by all; any insight on your thought process would be nice.
1
It was hardly mentioned when he signed the bill. Plenty of impeachment innuendos but not much on the signing of the Hong Kong Legislation. If Trump
Makes progress in China, gets completely out of Afghanistan and maybe even gets deeper on North Korea. He wins easy in 2020. I hate saying that but with the economy strong and wins on things no one could
Move before, hard to see any other result.
5
@boji3
Congress did this to support democracy and denounce oppression.
Trump did this to court votes in a unanimous support issue and to make Xi think he’s a tough guy.
He’s right about being the most transparent president - we see right through him.
When will Trump consider similar legislation to support the demonstrators in Chile, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq? This is bluster, nothing else and he believes that it will help him in the trade negotiations with China, except he does not know how to deal with the Chinese.
4
The reality is that anything signed by the President without the Congress approval is worth very little. Americans will have to work together to solve the most dangerous issues but there is zero evidence of that in daily affairs. The most dangerous challenges come in the forth year of a presidency. Soon we will see the mettle of the current administration.
Communist countries and dictators turning language upside down, lying, using doublespeak to sow confusion and denying reality... it’s what they do. How does a situation like this, with Hong Kong, resolve itself when we have an administration and a president who “governs” using those very same techniques? Hey China, chew on the statement below from (written for) Donald Trump. This is a man of honesty, clarity, and the best of intentions? He cares about HK protestors? Or.... are we supposed to somehow think Trump is a straight shooter internationally but limits his lying to domestic issues and in service to his reelection? Nope. No way.
“I signed these bills out of respect for President Xi, China, and the people of Hong Kong. They are being enacted in the hope that Leaders and Representatives of China and Hong Kong will be able to amicably settle their differences leading to long term peace and prosperity for all." None of those key words are in his vocabulary. “enacted... amicably”... new words for Don!
gone.
““The central government will even more urgently consider its methods and systems to control Hong Kong,” Mr. Tian said.”
Hong Kong authorities can do well on this if played wisely. Recognize the call for investigation of police activity (will gain Int’l approval), bag a few cops seen on-line striking unmask hongkongers, release arrested protester with no chance of prosecution, and hold tight recognized ‘vicious thugs’ as threat to civic order.
All that shifts the fight to those who have provoked many by vandalism; but are unlikely to be perceived as ‘champions of democracy’ in renewed protest – a long story.
It's all a bit weird as Trump started this trade war with China in the most undiplomatic way and all China could do is save face by retaliating. Honestly! Our politicians in NZ would leave your big fat overpaid government for dead when it comes to negotiating and diplomacy skills. Waving a big stick at china is never going to get results. And what results are those? Probably back to where you were before Trump started this trade war and you'll never get back the export orders that China banned as there is always another nation ready to jump in and export to China.
3
what the agriculture industries in USA produce can be substituted by other suppliers such as farm/agro products from Argentine and New Zealander.
1
@CK Who said it was diplomatic ? It's plain bullying. Might dictates .
1
That’s funny. Whomever China condemns over HK wins, automatically
1. Congress has changed the Constitution by taking over the power to set foreign policy from the President. This is wrong and threatens America as constituted.
2. Hong Kong is part of China and will always be so and no other country has the right nor the actual ability to interfere in the domestic affairs of China.
3. That complaints about the Hong Kong government have been repeatedly expressed with wanton violence shows that the Hong Kong police have responded as necessary but with restraint.
4. Problems in Hong Kong will be settled according to domestic law.
13
@Nancy - Congress doesn't have the ability to change the Constitution. In fact, the Constitution's main aim was to enshrine a system of checks and balances so that the USA wouldn't undergo monarchical tyranny Britain’s King George III. Congress must approve all declarations of war so that (ideally) the people are represented in the decision. Article 1 of the Constitution specifically delineates the power of the legislative branch to regulate commerce with foreign nations,, declare war, raise and support armies, provide and maintain a navy and make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces. The Constitution also makes two of the president’s foreign affairs powers—making treaties & appointing diplomats—dependent on Senate approval.
Also, UK agreed to hand over Hong Kong in exchange for China's agreement of a formulation of a “one country, two systems." This meant that Hong Kong was guaranteed the right to a political democracy in exchange for the transfer of power. This is an international treaty which China appears to be violating. This is why Hong Kong demonstrators are vigorously protesting for their rights under the treaty of 1984.
20
@Nancy Every country has the right and the duty to speak up when peoples basic rights are being taken away and when a country is sending its citizens to concentration camps. The government of China is violating basic human rights, and we all have a duty to speak up.
6
@Nancy
1. This is just plain wrong, the constitution wasn't changed.
2. China is in violation of the treaty it signed. By definition that means it's no longer a domestic affair. Besides, nobody is interfering. Creating policy that represents the democratic beliefs of the US isn't interfering just because it conflicts with China's desires of oppressing its people.
3. The violence is a reaction to the violence enforced by the CCP (via the police and substituted PLA).
4. Why should anyone trust in this if the police has been ignoring its own laws with violations like not wearing ID badges or using batons and boots on heads?
8
What probably happened was some low-level staffer, someone with a conscience, placed the "legislation" before the president who, not bothering to read it (and not understanding it if he could), scrawled his DJT on it and dismissed the employee with a wave of his imperial hand. By now, he's recognized that he was played and that poor staffer is out of a job on Thanksgiving Day.
What, pray, has changed?
4
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18
Really? That, or since it was a Unanimous Bill Trump really had no choice but to sign it or allow it to pass into law without his signature. He had no Veto Option as you should know so why the snark?
6
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18 your comment on Thanksgiving Day gives no hope.
No, Mr Trump has no intention of ever ending the trade war. The tax revenues from his tariffs are equivalent to a Federal sales tax, which will over time force low income people to pay for his tax breaks for the rich. This signature on the HK bill is all part of the on again off again stringing everyone along until the election. The risk is that the Chinese figure out that they are being played and that Trump will never make a meaningful deal with them. Then they will turn truly hostile. Hong Kong, Taiwan, Philippines, and Vietnam - beware!
2
We need to stand up to our own autocrat in November 2020.
33
Is having citizens of the US go without medical, prescription drug, and dental coverage a human rights violation?
188
Yes it is, but they weren't teargassed and rubber bulleted on campus. I was there.
I empathise with your comment very much, but I hope you do too with our predicament. Please, I wish more of you can kindly think of how to help other people around the world instead of jumping back to 'what about America' instantly.
81
@T Hong Kong just had a democratic election without Russian interference. People won. We did not have it in America.
19
@Gary Cohen Virtually no one in the US cannot get healthcare.
9
Trump's signature on a piece of paper means nothing. We know it, the Chinese know it, the Russians know it, our NATO allies know it, and anyone who's ever dealt with him knows it.
58
On Thanksgiving Day, tens of thousands of people gathered in Central business district of Hong Kong to give thanks to the U.S. for passing this legislation. Some waved the American flag. It means a lot to those who are fighting for democracy. And it means a lot that we in this country can support such legislation.
6
USA needs to bring itself into this century and sign free trade agreements. NZ was the first country in the world to sign a free trade agreement with China. We are leaders - not followers.
2
This isn't being politically correct but NZ is getting more export orders to China since Trump started the trade war. China is now the main country we export to, so that is good for our economy and government paying down government debt.
1
You are appalled when the US seems to interfere in Ukraine, but applaud interference in Hong Kong? Can you imagine the outrage in the US if another country took action against US citizens because they didn't like US policy on e.g. refugees? Do not fool yourselves into thinking that all the protesters are upstanding - the destruction and attacks on innocent citizens is appalling. China has not taken over yet.
4
Mike in NYC condemns China over Hong Kong. Down with Xi!
8
Striking a deal w so mercurial an imposter as trump is an almost impossibility
He’ll demand something anything after an accord is reached and torpedo the whole deal
That is his ‘ style’
1
@Adam S Urban Warrior
Pres. Trump is the best Prez we've had in decades. He stands for the things that all Americans agree on while proving he never cared about practicing his 'polished' look or insulting the country's history or culture.
There are some who should take advantage of the upcoming holidays to tour other countries in hopes of emigrating to a place that agrees with them.
Why force yourself & those close to you to live in a high-pressure situation of anger and frustration when other options exist?
Life is too short already.
The whole US political system is psychotic. It is utterly repulsive to all people of a cosmopolitan nature.
Do you think that the US congress will be drafting a similar act for Saudi Arabia, who is a known human rights violator, and is responsible for the horrible murder of the journalist Kashoggi. The hypocrisy and the lack of historical knowledge of the US government is beyond words.
7
Beijing is facing a real people's revolution. Free speech and free elections are bummers for authoritarian control freaks. Go ahead, President-for-life Xi. Send in the tanks and shoot yourself in your economic foot.
4
Chinese killed their 1st Nobel laureate in peace recently so HI has no chance
2
Hi Mr “Bosanovitch”
It is nice to see the wumao have migrated to the nytimes comment section. It is even nicer to see you are working on thanksgiving, as am I at a hospital in the states. Allow me to be clear. America, Taiwan and all freedom loving democratic nations will never succumb to chinese communist influences. You are free to write what you wish- this is a free country; enjoy it, know that we will never stop fighting your bullies, your subjugation; in the name of freedom and democracy in US and Taiwan. Happy thanksgiving to you and your family,
11
It is the hight of sheer chutzpah that the dear Fuehrer of the US, the one who separates babies and underage children from their parents and puts them in cages, dares to lecture China of human rights.
Xi’s army, heard from
China should condemn China over China. Now that would be out-Trumping Trump.
7
Hmmm, where’s Great Britain all this? It is their agreement with China after handing over Hong Kong when the lease of the land was over which has been successively broken by the communists aka socialists. We don’t hear anything from them, nor Europe. It would appear that Europe, in this case, is more social than noble.
1
@William Perrigo
Google is your friend.
The British parliament, the European Parliament and the European Commssion have roundly condemned human rights abuses by the Beijing government as well as the violence occurring, The European parliament has further passed a resolution for economic sanctions against China.
At the moment, Europe is applying political pressure -to which China has reacted furiously calling it 'an attack on Chinese sovereignty. Beijing has reminded London (correctly) that Great Britain has no legal or adminstrative jurisdiction over HK.
I'm surprised you 'heard nothing'. Be aware that America's traditional modus operandi - bullying, sanctions, threats - is not the way most of the world does diplomacy.
7
Yeah - and what impact did all that EU hot air have?
2
@nolongeradoc
"Most of the world", when they wield power, act even worse. This applies to China too - the Johnny Come lately "imperialist".
A mystery haunted China-watchers: Why does a regime which merrily mowed down under tanks hundreds of unarmed, non-violent youth in the full view of the word in Tiananmen Square, now serenely puts up for months with Molotov Cocktails and mayhem in Hongkong? It is clear now that China is a “wounded tiger,” a victim of “Trade War”! When Trump said that “China wants a ‘Deal’ more than he”, it was not the usual brag but the truth!
Impeachment proceedings and 2020-Elections compel the POTUS to call a temporary truce. China too needs ‘internal peace’ to heal the wounds and rearrange her economy to meet the new realities.
But make no mistake. This is not "peace in our time"! The combatants are not retreating for good. Tigers lurk to leap!
1
If China is angry, you know you’ve done the right thing.
10
The bigger hypocrisy in the world from both parties; the abuse to children and the separation of families and the treatment of human being in the border is appalling; but the sad part that people support the ignorant conmam
6
so when the next mass school shooting, police shooting of an unarmed black woman playing a video game with her child in her own home THROUGH A CLOSED WINDOW, deployment of a Koch Industries armed militia carrying out the latest installment of the American Indian's genocide occurs China should by all means sanction the US economically and politically for our manifest and historic disregard of human rights and violations of our own Constitution and Bill of Rights.
3
What a sarcastic joke; the US condemning another country for human rights abuses. Again we interfere in another country's affairs. That sure turned out swell in Central America.
57
@Snide Piper I think you can rest easy since this is very little and very late, coming after the HKongers themselves protested for six months and then voted their own response. It is hard to call this ditsy bill “interference.”
3
I think we need to pay attention to Trump's own human rights violations--Family separations, lost children in the hundreds, refugees and asylum seekers sent to a "jungle area" in Guatemala, refugees and asylum seekers held indefinitely in detention and in ice cold rooms. I pray for justice and common sense, and help and welcome for all of these people.
159
@Ann Carman we certainly do. But we should at least be happy that we are supporting oppressed people somewhere. We must end this administration’s brutal immigration policies, but we should still be happy this bill passed.
26
@Ann Carman Once again we see a bad case of TDS. There is nothing we are doing in this country to compare with what goes on in China everyday.
9
@Ann Carman Your argument, in Essex, is that the rest of the world needs to take a back seat because we have to attend to America’s problems. Trump makes that argument, too. He calls it America First. Didn’t know that you and Trump had so much in common, did you?
10
trump will trade away human rights for dollars.
18
Everyone knows Trump and China have everything pre planned so they can delay an agreement until the next election comes so huge gets more popular. I would say next summer he conveniently reaches an agreement with China. Only one thing would speed it up if he feels he needs to resign.
1
Whatever China decides to do, everyone knows that the decision will be a strategic calculation aimed to strengthen the police state, They can't do to HK what they are doing in Tibet and Xinjiang, and what they'd love to do in Taiwan. But they will try to derail HKs democracy in millions of ways, probably by bribing their influence into the middle class just as they've done with the oligarchs. Beating up the kids is not the way to do it, however.
2
What issues did our ambassador raise in Beijing when he was summoned by CCP authorities? Hong Kong does fine w/o mainland interference which should be a big plus for China, i.e. they benefit from a booming HK economy. The CCP leaders should look at themselves in the mirror--they have been caught believing their own propaganda, and to their detriment.
So what are the issues? Obviously N. Korea stands out as a place for cooperation between the U.S. and China. Both parties benefit from strict adherence to the non-Proliferation Treaty, and more broadly benefit solving an issue to further cooperation between the two countries. Cooperation in itself is important, not only in avoiding military confrontations, but also in order that other issues may be resolved.
The most important of which is global warming/climate change. Nothing positive will happen here until both countries agree on a drastic program to reduce carbon emissions. Switching to renewable energy sources will also boost the economies of both countries, and allow for cheaper energy costs long term. Plus Clean Air. And if a carbon tax, both countries could stipulate 80% domestic manufacture, with initially no trade barriers to the cheapest solar panels to get this going. Early momentum is most important; new science tells us that emissions will have to be cut twice as fast as a decade ago to be effective (see Nov. Nature TCRE), and this because nothing done in the last 10 years has reduced CO2 emissions.
2
@loveman0 The CCP hasn't care for the people and this planet. They only focus on power. Mao Zedong once said endless joy in fighting with the Sky ( for him, might refer to any challenge his power either in the party or the state ). For
this, he caused Great Chinese Famine.
1
Taken in historical context, China has progressed towards individual freedom and human rights at a pace that far exceeds that of any other nation. Seventy years ago America and its allies under the UN were fighting hand to hand with Chinese troops in Korea. China supported and fought against the US in Vietnam, killing thousands of US soldiers. Tiananmen Square was a celebration of human rights recognition regardless of the brutality when compared to what would have happened a generation earlier. China in Hong Kong will set the stage for China as a whole. China's response to Islamic extremism is extreme, however, in the context of China's geographical and geopolitical structure, coupled with its short history of experiences in the demands for human rights, it is nothing compared to what it did in Tibet. China will continue to grow powerful both economically and militarily. China's evolution socially is the greatest argument for supporting Hong Kong. The next move is a two part action of recognizing Taiwan as an autonomous nation and supporting the rights of the surrounding nations regarding their offshore islands, that are within their International recognized boundaries. Left until later Taiwan will become another Hong Kong and the South China Sea will be a private lake. Regardless of Trump's intentions, signing the bill was the right thing to do. If he has a spine he will advance to the Taiwan and islands issues. But, no spine there.
2
Hollow threats as USA is the biggest importer of Chinese made goods. And China has too many borders to patrol and problems it needs to keep under control. For example, North Korean border, Hong Kong etc.
3
@CK Looks like word hasn't got to NZ that US farmers are going broke in record numbers, and Trump begging China to commit to buying huge quantities. He's also begging for much more purchases of US LNG, that China has cut to almost zero, with many US drillers, like Chesapeake on the edge of bankrupcy. Wonder why?
1
The grifter president stumbles through life playing both sides until he slithers away undetected. After Ukraine, Syria, and numerous dictator affirmations, I find it hard to believe that any group receives his support without a Thanksgiving-sized grain of salt, but we have a forty year paper trail to show otherwise. Hong Kong would be wise not to take the bait.
5
@DF Trees
This law helps Hong Kong protestors because most of the Hong Kong and Chinese government officials (or their families) have assets in US. They also like to obtain visa to travel to America. These officials need to balance their acts to please both the Chinese Communist Party and the US government.
It also allows the US President to cancel the United States–Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992, which gives Hong Kong a special status separate from the rest of mainland China with regard to tariffs and visa restrictions. https://www.businessinsider.com/mitch-mcconnell-china-review-1992-hong-kong-policy-act-2019-8
HK is indispensable to the continuing economic growth of the Communist China, especially with the downturn of economy in mainland now. According to economist ”Aug 8, 2019 - About 70% of the capital raised on it is for Chinese firms, but strikingly ... Most Chinese foreign direct investment flows through Hong Kong." This law will put a lot of pressure to these officials, which is why the Chinese communist party so strongly opposes it. Money is the only thing they understand.
5
Hong Kong and Xinjiang are major human rights violations. History book stuff. If you don’t want to get involved, go back to making widgets.
2
"China has few options to retaliate." Like refusing to buy US farm products and shale oil, where it is by far the largest international buyer?????
4
China is just mirroring Trump. Both play the game of mirage. Nothing is what it seems. Everything is fake news.
China will not sign an interim deal this year. Maybe by February/March 2020 when she have better idea what to do next.
1
The reporters of this article betray a lack of understanding of how Chinese politics work. There will not be any official Chinese govt that provide clarity of action until there is a consensus have been made. So no Twitter response there.
If anything, what the Chinese govt would likely do is to do nothing and essentially ignore what happened in HK and let the protesters have a taste of their own medicine. It is easy to protest, but it is more difficult to legislate and govern.
The HK economy is fundamentally dependent on the Chinese economy in every way: any sustained reduction of Chinese tourists or Chinese business interests given the negative press about how visitors get beat up will keep HK economy in the doldrums.
4
@Elizabeth
"...The HK economy is fundamentally dependent on the Chinese economy in every way..."
Nope. Hong Kong is the most important financial center to the Communist China. HK is the paradise for mainland Chinese and the CCP to get their money out from mainland China to HK and then to America, Canada, Australia and Europe...etc. There are restrictions to exchange from Renminbi to USD. But we can exchange from HKD to USD without restrictions. Google about the history between HKD and USD.
If you want to know why Shenzhen and Shanghai can't replace HK, please read about the United States–Hong Kong Policy Act of1992.
The CCP's debt is going up to the roof. HK is indispensable to the continuing economic growth of the Communist China, especially with the downturn of economy in mainland now. "Aug 8, 2019 - About 70% of the capital raised on it is for Chinese firms, but strikingly ... Most Chinese foreign direct investment flows through Hong Kong" from economist. Look at what Alibaba is doing in HK, $13 billion HK stock sale this week. Lastly, HK has US$433 billion of foreign reserves. So if the CCP has complete control of HK, their money’s problem might not be solved, but that’ll buy them sometime to make more money, especially USD. Who want Renminbi?
BTW, the housing bubble crisis in mainland China is coming soon.
2
@summer
In other words, HK is the centre for laundering money out of China.
I see that the USA hypocrisy again in supporting such a move to preserve money laundering.
@Quentin Hack
You're misleading. This bill is adding on to the United States–Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992, which gives Hong Kong a special status separate from the rest of mainland China with regard to tariffs and visa restrictions. If the Chinese Communist Party wants to treat Hong Kong just like other cities in China then the US-HK policy act should be cancelled.
The CCP entered into an international treaty arrangement with the U.K. in 1985 that commits that nation to respect the liberal democratic self-governance of Hong Kong. The promises of a “high degree of autonomy” and “one person one vote” election of our Chief Executive are denied by Beijing. The CCP is not honoring the "One Country, Two Systems." The U.S. and every other country has a stake in the honoring of such treaties.
2
China did retaliate against Canada - by detaining Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig. Neither have been formally charged or have had access to counsel; both live under distressing circumstances, such as having the lights on in their cells 24/7 and zero access to reading material.
5
Let's be honest here. This bill was going to pass regardless of Trump's signing, of which he publicly fretted over and hesitated over.
Trump is strictly trans-actual: human rights are hardly his thing in our country or anywhere else on the planet.
5
I like to see someone poses the following question to Mr. Trump: What is the difference between China and Saudi Arabia, when it come to violating their people's human rights? Both have important commercial relations with the US, worth many billions of dollars, and both are authoritarian regimes that have no respect for democracy and no tolerance for masses who want to freely express their grievances in the streets.
It is not difficult to see some significant differences between these two countries in their relationships to the US. The trade between US and China is many times larger than that with Saudi Arabia, making China more important to the US economy. And China is not only militarily independent of the US - while Saudi Arabia totally depends on the US - but rivals the US in some defensive areas.
These differences may suggest that the US should be less hostile toward China and more forceful toward Saudi Arabia. But, for some reasons, what is happening in Washington is clearly at odd with that. So, once again, the question is why?
3
@Eddie B.
China, with its rapidly expanding economy, military and technology, is seeking to replace the US as global hegemon, Saudi Arabia is a backwards nation that poses no threat.
China's drive towards global hegemon was a major concern of candidate Trump and those who advised him. Tariffs were supposed to be a tool that would bring China to heel. Hasn't happened. Now all Trump can do is strike a trade deal that would allow him to save face and allow China to restore the status quo. Either way, China continues its march towards global hegemon.
Moreover, Trump has been helping China in its march. As the US disengages the rest of the world in economic, environmental, and military matters, hard and soft power of the US has been diminished, and China has been filling certain voids.
2
@Eddie B.
As bad as the Saudis are, they aren't committing genocide. The Chinese are worse.
The Divided States of Hypocrisy.
6
Anyone who knew anything at China’s communist system when the British finally turned over control, knew that China’s promise to preserve “democracy” in Hong Kong was a cynical lie.
Sooner or later force majeure from Beijing will end the illusion.
4
Where are the Democrats? Why are they silent?
6
@na Congress voted 99.9% for the bill; meaning Democrats voted for it. Trump only signed it because Congress would smash his veto. Trump wants a trade deal with China; to give him a "win" and make him look good. If China smashes Hong Kong; Trump will do nothing. Ray Sipe
4
Nancy Pelosi and Democrats are also big supporters for this. https://www.facebook.com/hkdc.us/?ref=py_c
Btw, the House Passes Bill Supporting Hong Kong Protesters on Oct 15, 2019.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/house-passes-bill-supporting-hong-kong-protesters-11574288433
Yes, we want to thank you all US politicians, both Democrats and Republicans, for supporting the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, especially Marco Rubio and Mitch McConnell.
This law can helps Hong Kong protestors because most of the Hong Kong and Chinese government officials (or their families) have assets in US. They also like to obtain visa to travel to America. These officials need to balance their acts to please both the Chinese Communist Party and the US government. Money is the only thing they understand.
1
@na /Well M.S. just gave you a response
The toothless bills which Trump qualified by saying he wouldn't really enforce them are a show conflict to mollify the masses. Trump and his family are so deeply mired in financial conflicts of interest in China that he doesn't want to upset the Chinese Communist Party leaders too much.
The GOP members of Congress can continue to assert that Trump is doing something when he is really doing nothing. Fascism has another day of folly on the world stage as the forces of democracy seek to undo the cabal.
6
@Moonwood
No, it is not toothless. This law can helps Hong Kong protestors because most of the Hong Kong and Chinese government officials (or their families) have assets in US. They also like to obtain visa to travel to America. These officials need to balance their acts to please both the Chinese Communist Party and the US government.
It also allows the US President to cancel the United States–Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992, which gives Hong Kong a special status separate from the rest of mainland China with regard to tariffs and visa restrictions. https://www.businessinsider.com/mitch-mcconnell-china-review-1992-hong-kong-policy-act-2019-8
HK is indispensable to the continuing economic growth of the Communist China, especially with the downturn of economy in mainland now. According to economist ”Aug 8, 2019 - About 70% of the capital raised on it is for Chinese firms, but strikingly ... Most Chinese foreign direct investment flows through Hong Kong." This law will put a lot of pressure to these officials, which is why the Chinese communist party so strongly opposes it. Money is the only thing they understand.
2
Democrats who signed on to this legislation opposed Trump every step of the way on trade. They were afraid of rocking the boat. Now they are pretending that the worthless legislation they voted for will make any difference. They’re just hopping on the bandwagon started by Trump.
2
Trump signed the new human rights legislation only because the senate would of overruled any veto order he signed because he wants their support in the impeachment trial. Trump could care a less about these people in Hong Kong fighting for human rights. The only thing Trump cares about is himself. Trump doesn't even know where Hong Kong is or Ukraine or Syria but he is a stable genius.
8
George Orwell's "1984" is becoming a frightening reality in places like China where they censor communications, imprison millions for having different religions or holding different opinions, they monitor nearly everyone through facial recognition, and tolerate no dissent. Then there's Russia, where journalists are killed. Scary times.
10
Please keep in mind that Trump had no choice but to sign the bill. His veto would have been overridden by Congress, which would make him look weak.
You know how he feels about looking weak.
9
US-China relations under Trump have been an absolute disaster. Did we need to take a second look at our trade relationship? Yes. Did we need to address the possibility of genocide in Xinjiang? Yes. Did we need to address China's encroachment in the SCS? Yes. But, did we need to attack China through our domestic political channels? I would argue no. Trump has brought back a lot of China's national shame, when foreigners challenged their sovereignty, dictated their domestic politics, and made them swallow their words. Instead of the CCP trying to build bridges and cope with this trauma they have used it as a rallying cry to inspire a nationalistic fervor the likes of which hasn't been seen since the Cultural Revolution. Xi has weaponized the image of Trump to make his "level two" political negotiation with the public inescapable, effectively destroying the possibility of a good deal or transparency as he can turn around and say, "my people will never accept this". Xi has loaded the propaganda machine up and it's just begun it's course. America should have taken action through the ICJ, HRC, UN, and developed a coalition of muslim states behind it to deal when XinJiang and a European coalition to address Hong Kong and trade. Without the global community behind it America can't negotiate.
2
@Bilal it
I don't think the West should forever cower before Russia and China or Trump for that matter.
1
@Bilal
"...Without the global community behind it America can't negotiate."
I see it differently. If America don't do it first, other countries won't follow. BTW, this bill is adding on to the United States–Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992, which gives Hong Kong a special status separate from the rest of mainland China with regard to tariffs and visa restrictions. It's not about challenging the CCP's sovereignty. If the Communist China wants to treat Hong Kong just like other cities in China then the US-HK policy act should be cancelled.
Additionally, the CCP entered into an international treaty arrangement with the U.K. in 1985 that commits that nation to respect the liberal democratic self-governance of Hong Kong. The promises of a “high degree of autonomy” and “one person one vote” election of our Chief Executive are denied by Beijing. The CCP is not honoring the "One Country, Two Systems." The U.S. and every other country has a stake in the honoring of such treaties.
Colossal mistake on part of Trump to sign those 2 bills. China's history of the last 2 centuries is replete with attempts of western colonization and interference. China sees those bills as pattern of that interference. They'll be no trade bill as relations with China enter a chilly winter of discontent for years to come.
3
I dislike meddling in another country's internal affairs.
But settling this by honoring the pledge to not bring Hong Kong under the strict policies of "mainland" for fifty years would not only be superb for Hong Kong's citizens, but be a positive game-changer for China as well!
I am guessing that President Xi Jinping and his ruling single party are terrified that the freedoms will "spread" and spoil their iron grip. That presumes that Xi Jinping hasn't accomplished miracles in improving the lives of many (but not all) of their citizens -- but he has!
If there were ten political parties and opposing candidates China would be nuts to leave anyone else in control because of his emphasis on technology and manufacturing that has fueled their dramatic rise.
Leaving Hong Kong's "colonial" traditions would demonstrate a supreme confidence to the world and to her people in the mainland's government direction. Just as dramatic would be the central party's bending over backwards to show the world that they do not need special treatment or bending of the rules of trade for her citizens to compete fairly on an even playing field.
You disliked it but you didn’t and couldn’t stop it. What matters in the end by calling it out is nothing. Just sad.
@Kai
China is psychologically torturing millions of Uyghurs. That is sad. This is not sad.
1
@Tom Mariner - It's too bad we didn't interfered in Nazi Germany's murder of the Jews or would you have opposed that too?
Regardless of trump'$ attempt to manipulate a trade deal with china via exploiting the situation in Hong Kong, we, the taxpayers will never recover the 80+Billion he gave away to big Agra farmers earlier this year. As if this administration cares at all about the brave Hong Kong protesters.
4
This all means little in the overall situation. Yes, nice of Trump to sign, but there certainly are bigger fish to fry.
Hey, trade wars are easy to win! Yep, that’s what the stable genius says. US farmers have already lost huge chunks of their Asian markets and won’t get them back soon, if ever. And it certainly looks like we're in for another imminent dose of trump style ‘socialism’ with yet another (this will be #3 and counting) $16 billion bailout for farmers!!! Alas the Blue States are having to put out for Red States for the decisions of a president elected by the Red States.
7
Those NBA appeasers look rather foolish right now. Sneaker profits more important than the freedoms of the sneaker buyers.
6
China - Why don’t you try freedom of speech, assembly, and religion for starters. Then we will buy your stuff.
9
@Time - Space
Well, freedom of religion is supposedly threatened by all them librul lefties in the US according the the popier-than- the-Pope AG Barr.
I wonder if Barr told Perry to declare that Trump was the one chosen by the Almighty to ail this country and the planet from all that ails it.
2
We need the Democrats running for President to take a stand on Trump’s action. They can’t be for it or they agree with Trump and of course, that would be terrible. So they need to voice their opposition loudly and often.
4
@John Bowman
All of the Democrats running, who are currently in Congress, supported the bill. Warren, Harris, Klobuchar, and Booker were cosponsors.
1
I have not heard any of them say that Trump did the right thing by signing the bill.
What with a crumbling infrastructure, the unchecked Russian infiltration of the electoral system, the cancellation of TPP in Asia and instead a foolhardy escalating trade war with China, North Korea’s unfettered nuclearization efforts, deficits going through the roof, weekly mass shootings and a president unabashedly toying with weird notions of nuking hurricanes and buying greenland. Another 4 years of this nonsense? If McConnell and his ilk prevail, it could well be.
6
too bad there is no competent contender from Dem
3
@caonidayeah any functioning adult would be better
4
@John Townsend
Calling the past few years of the Drumpf administration 'nonsense' is the understatement du jour.
1
Trump administration has very little standing in the world, especially to the Chinese government. Sure he can bully, but all this posturing is based on total ignorance of history and devoid of clear strategy. Unfortunately he and his cohorts can do a lot of damage, that’s about all. This is the darkest time yet in the history of this country, mainly the loss of dignity and credibility. Sinking and sinking some more, each day.
3
Leverage needed to be used to get the Chinese to come to the table and hopefully resolve the long standing trade issues between powers. While this article actually puts the Trump Administration in good light for once, telling the real story for the past year likely would have come to a result earlier and without all the fireworks. In the past, the press coverage would have informed the public as to the why and how, not the case in today's world, where victories cannot be scored by the current administration.
1
Meanwhile in my neighbors yard, Spanish speaking construction crew members are working hard, when they should (be able to afford to, and be allowed by their employers to) be home enjoying a long Thanksgiving weekend as God intended.
We are to spend tomorrow shopping, as trained by the money- (vs. God-) worshipping corporate owners who have taken over our government.
I still have faith:
May we make time to gather the factual information and moral guidance we will need as citizens to vote responsibly for positive change in each upcoming election.
On Thansgiving Day and beyond, may we have respectful and open-hearted conversations with fellow Americans of all walks of life, as we make our way to common and higher ground.
I don't mean weed.
Even the devout athiest could crack a Bible once in a while and see what Jesus had to say about loving our neighbors as ourselves.
Psalms and Proverbs are full of excellent commentary on the universal human condition and should not conflict too dramatically with anyone's views on religion or spirituality or faith.
At my politically diverse West End United Methodist Church here in Nashville, we are trying to learn via our splendid female senior pastor that everyone is our neighbor.
Everyone on the Earth, all of the Earth's creatures, the Earth itself, and all of the Earth's resources, which we are meant to care well for and to share with our neighbors: Everyone.
So: it is simple while not easy, and possible if we choose: Amen.
5
If history has shown us anything, it is that China plays the board for the long game. It is a different nation than it was during the time of Tiananmen Square and sophisticated enough after millennia as a nation to deftly balance and prioritize its national interests using all its tools of governance, both brutal and sublime.
At this moment, it would not serve its long-term interests to crack down on Hong Kong in the same way it is cracking down in Xinjiang; the geopolitics and geo-history suggest two different approaches. After all, this is the country of "one government: two systems." But no one should presume Hong Kong's recent elections as a portent of long-term democratic assurance for the former British colony and certainly not as some harbinger for eventual democratic reforms on the mainland.
China appears to have learned well from the last major contest with the West around who would call the shots in global trade. They lost that one badly, resulting in the ceding of Hong Kong to Great Britain, the carving up of other major markets to later-arriving European powers and Japan, and the social destabilization of their society in large part due to opium being pushed at an unprecedented scale by the British to offset their trade deficit with China.
China was the largest economy in the world until the British forced that adjustment. Hong Kong serves as both an actual and symbolic reminder. China's long game is now stepping up to reclaim that title.
5
This is all about adjusting our future relationship with China. In case many haven't noticed, China cannot do much damage to us more than they already have. We, however, can. (not that we should, but we do hold the power in the relationship when you boil it all down). So we have the luxury of deciding how to proceed. China has the largest manufacturing sector in the world and is integrated in the global supply chain. Very clear. Our decisions on tariffs and resultant corporate uneasiness has had a significant effect on lessening our dependency on China, as our imports from them continue to slip and they fall behind Canada and Mexico in the rankings of our primary trade partners. I'd like to see the necessary trade relations and political communications continue with China as we need to in our best interests, with agreements tied to lowering our trade gap with them; almost an automated formula of sorts. There will always be a trade gap with China ( at least as far as I can see) so it is a matter of narrowing and nothing more. Although draconian and un-American, I would also like to see Chinese student presence in the US curtailed. Educating our own takes priority, and however well meaning, Chinese students can become a non-willing or planted source of IP theft. Our social contract with our own people of all colors takes priority. Foreign tuition dollars are less important.
8
@Mark...great analysis. thanks.
2
@Mark
Try analyzing the damage China can cause using actual facts, like the amount of US debt it owns, or the amount of debt the US will continue to accrue spending billions annually to buy Trump votes from his fans in agriculture?
3
@Mark Too bad we don't have the TPP.
1
Any time that the United States calls out China on their human rights violations, the Chinese in return accuse the United States of similar violations as well. However, what the Chinese fail to realize is that here in the United States, we have the freedom to critique our own government and its actions, and if necessary, vote for a new party to take charge of our country. In China, critiquing the government is political suicide. The people of Hong Kong are beginning to realize the ramifications of reuniting with the Mainland and are fighting to hold onto their democratic institutions for as long as possible.
I believe passing the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act is a step in the right direction.
105
@Charlie
"In China, critiquing the government is political suicide. "
Not just political suicide, it can land you in prison and lead to your death (most recent case that we know about would be Wang Meiyu).
Not to mention that simply holding the wrong beliefs results in visits to "education centers" which, based on the recent leaks, seem scarily similar to concentration camps.
25
@Josh You are absolutely correct. My wife happens to be from Mainland China, and she refuses to give any opinion on the current political crisis in China for fear of potential retribution from the government if she were to travel back home.
It is disheartening to say the least.
19
@Charlie
Regarding freedom and voting: IF the United States of America had had an honest presidential election in 2016 trump would not be in office. The USA has slipped to being just a ring above most third world countries. There's no room for jingoistic chatter in this Orwellian climate. Happy Thanksgiving.
11
There is a bigger issue than this sanctions law. Some factions inside the Chinese government have said they believe the US is involved in the unrest in Hong Kong, along the lines of its regime change efforts elsewhere.
If Xi himself became convinced of that, it would be a really big deal. That would be an act of war, one that he could not back away from, especially given Chinese history of Western intervention and Hong Kong's role in that.
That allegation is the explosion sizzling near the trade deal concerns. Not only would there be no trade deal, there might well be open confrontation somewhere else, like say Taiwan or North Korea or the South China Sea.
Of course wild talk about events in Hong Kong is common and need not be linked to much reality. But the danger here is that Xi comes to believe it, or sees a political need to act as if he believes it.
That problem shades this law, and the elections, and much else.
This is when we need well considered diplomacy to head of an untoward event. What do we have instead?
2
Since Hong Kong's return to China's sovereignty in 1997, China has long begun their extensive efforts to subtly control the city's government and the local economy. They funded large infrastructural projects connecting Hong Kong to rest of China and ensued the city'e reliance on the supplies from the mainland, they hoped to reinforce the city's dependence on China. With more immigrants from China enouraging economic activities and inter-marriages between the border of China and Hong Kong, and daily broadcasting Chinese national anthem on TV channels, China hopes to change the city's cultural identity. The weeping election result last Sunday for the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong, sent a very very clear message to Beijing and the China Communist Party that these efforts in the past 25 years to dampen the territory's semi-autonomy and to re-model the city to another Chinese city were complete failing. The younger generation is rising against these changes, even descendants born of mainland Chinese immigrants but raised in Hong Kong, also resisted the CCP's encroachment of the city's freedom. Hong Kong people should continue to take advantage of the US bills and this positive public opinion to create more pro-democracy changes in the city's government, hopefully one day that can change the rest of China, which is what China is currently scrambling to contain.
37
@JW
Convergence is an old dream and always a surprise when it goes the other way. Authoritarianism seems to be what is on the rise – local scene included. Change if it comes will be from battles within the CCP, as they were occurring in the 1980’s, but Singapore not D.C. will be the model.
My greatest fear about this move is that it encourages the people of Hong Kong to believe that we have their backs, should things really hit the fan. We don't. Just ask the Kurds.
252
@Bob H
It's not just the Kurds.
It's the Syrian rebels.
It's the South Vietnamese.
It's multiple democratic efforts in South and Central America.
19
@Bob H
How exactly would you suggest the U.S. "have the backs" of Hong Kong protesters?
Military intervention?
Sever all trade ties with China?
Naval blockade?
Something else?
Do you see any downsides to "having the backs" of every separatist/democratic movement around the world?
11
@John My point exactly. This is an easy feel-good vote for us that may be setting them up for slaughter.
5
China's response will be determined by its assessment of only one thing - is it likely that Trump will be reelected.
If the answer is yes, then they will strike a trade deal, any deal, right now.
If the answer is no, then they will stand firm, perhaps signing a small deal for agricultural products, and wait to negotiate in January 2021.
Remember that China thinks in terms of decades, not quarters.
1
Trump's signing, done out of sight, will need being watched to see that the implication is followed; we need not another episode like the one in Ukraine that is showing an ugly side of the office of the Presidency.
26
The notions that China will change, become democratic, start participating as a responsible adult in the global community, are not supported by facts but by academics dreaming about roses and merlot. Evidence over 30 years suggests China plays spoiler, makes for a lousy partner what with stealing what you've got, engaged in every criminal activity, trying to expand geographically, and suppressing freedoms.
So the American intellectuals who are favoring an embracing posture toward China are advocating for what exactly, and for what reason? Of course China will be upset if we get in their way of brutality, suppression, geographic expansion, predatory lending, financing Maoist insurgencies, blue water navy development and control over South China sea.
Why are intelligent minds afraid of upsetting China? Do you worry about how upset every criminal is, when he is arrested and put away?
Kindly get a life, you apologists for communist China. The future you are imagining with China becoming another partner with us, as are Canada or UK - is a pipe dream.
8
@Kalidan China didn't attack Iraq we did, China didn't attack Libya we did, China didn't attack Yugoslavia we did, China didn't attack Syria we did, China didn't declare Israeli settlements in Palestine legal we did, China didn't deny climate change we did, China isn't starving Venezuela, Cuba, Iran with sanctions we are.
3
@Kalidan Who are the apologists? I don't see that, just various predictions of the future. Some will be wrong, no subplot at work here.
@Larry
"...China didn't deny climate change we did,..."
Are you dreaming? This is a lie. The people in China can't even breathe. Have you ever live in the mainland China?
Let's talk about the Chinese Communist Party's history of violence to the Chinese people since 1949 (btw, the CCP is only 70 years old): over four millions killed in the Land Reform, 1950. Forty millions died in the Great Leap Forward, 1959. More than seven millions killed during the Cultural Revolution between 1967 and 1977. We don't know exactly how many died in the Tiananmen Massacre in 1989. How about Falun Gong? The CCP is harvesting organs from Falun Gong members...
Do you remember Tibet? Jangling Li wrote a good book; she has articles on NY Times.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/world/asia/china-tibet-lhasa-jianglin-li.html
As for camps/jails, I suggest you read the "‘Absolutely No Mercy." It will give you an idea of what Xi Jinping's China like. The article is really good.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html
2
I come from a newspaper family. When my father came home after work, he brought all the Boston papers with him. And by age 4, I was honing my reading skills with the papers.
Later, I learned from my bother what was done by the reporter, the copywriter, and the editor.
This article turns on the second word. And despite the multiple reporters, it likely was inserted by the editor, who decides the slant of the piece. When I read the word ‘vented’, I knew the message was that everything China said was hot air. And so there was no need to read the rest of the story because everything that followed was Chinese hot air.
When you’re four years old and you’ve got a pile of newspapers in front of you, this is the sort of stuff you learn.
2
China resorts to human rights abuses. Treating Muslims in that country indifferently, and as third class citizens. Setting up their own rules in the South China and East China Seas, and claiming the whole area to be their own. China's behavior in Hong Kong is very despicable. It is China's own doing, by wilfully ignoring the 'One country, two Systems' agreement.
While China continues to resort to their bullying tactics, they expect the world to watch and stay tight lipped. China should understand the world does not operate that way. If China wants to be a part of the world community, they have to first place their own house in order. There is much at stake for Chins.
4
The so-called "tough" legislation signed by this Administration is toothless piece of diplomatic PR...and I suspect will not be implemented. It's also breathtakingly hypocritical since this Administration has not twitched a facial muscle in disapproval for India’s Hindu nationalist government's stripping Kashmir of its semi-autonomous status (guaranteed by the Indian constitution) and putting the region under a crippling military lockdown....but of course, Modi is a "pal".
It also supports Saudi Arabia's hideous monarchial regime in its multi-year military campaign in Yemen which causes untold atrocities...but of course, Mohamed Bin Salman is a "pal".
And last but not least, this Administration encourages Israel to turn illegal Jewish settlements into outright annexation of Palestinian lands...but of course, Netanyahu is a pal (so far).
5
Another day and another validation of President Trump's China policies.
"The trade war has contributed to an economic slowdown that has sent growth to its most sluggish pace in nearly three decades."
Will he receive any credit from the media? From the haters? From the nattering nabobs of negativism? Of course not. They are all too consumed with impeachment insanity which is moving public opinion...not at all.
I did not vote for Trump and will not vote for Trump. But the democrats are doing their level best to guarantee a second Trump term. God help us all.
4
China is a communist country. Period. We should support anybody who's against their rule, and we should limit China's economic power and influence. Like we did successfully with USSR.
8
The most obvious interpretation of events is that both houses of U.S. Congressed passed the resolution with veto-proof majorities and so Trump’s veto would not have mattered. Before signing the law, Tump used his infamous back channel to reassure the Chinese that he is still very much the transactional president who has a price for everything and that U.S.-China trade talks are way more important than human rights in Hong Kong. With all this, U.S. members of Congress can look tough and appear to be “doing something” about China and Hong Kong as they campaign in 2020, the Chinese government can also file protests and declare condemnation for their Domestic audience, and Trump can still have his Chinese trade deal and gin up the stock market so he can claim “the best and the greatest economy ever!” The only people who lose are people in Hong Kong where American laws will be meaningless in protecting their rights, American credibility in the world that can clearly see through this charade, and the American people whose president throws anyone under the bus who doesn’t further his personal interests and ambitions.
@UC Graduate
“…American laws will be meaningless in protecting their rights,…”
No, this law can helps Hong Kong protestors because most of the Hong Kong and Chinese government officials (or their families) have assets in US. They also like to obtain visa to travel to America. These officials need to balance their acts to please both the Chinese Communist Party and the US government.
It also allows the US President to cancel the United States–Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992, which gives Hong Kong a special status separate from the rest of mainland China with regard to tariffs and visa restrictions. If the Chinese Communist Party wants to treat Hong Kong just like other cities in China then the US-HK policy act should be cancelled.
Additionally, the CCP entered into an international treaty arrangement with the U.K. in 1985 that commits that nation to respect the liberal democratic self-governance of Hong Kong. The U.S. and every other country has a stake in the honoring of such treaties.
Finally, HK is indispensable to the continuing economic growth of the Communist China, especially with the downturn of economy in mainland now. According to economist ”Aug 8, 2019 - About 70% of the capital raised on it is for Chinese firms, but strikingly ... Most Chinese foreign direct investment flows through Hong Kong." This law will put a lot of pressure to these officials, which is why the Chinese Communist Party so strongly opposes it. Money is the only thing they understand.
The savings rate of the average household in China is much higher than that in the U.S.
2
@Putinski
Why would anyone trust the Chinese's data? It sounds like trusting Xi Jinping to hold up the rule of law.
2
I believe that the impeachment hearings are forcing Trump to become a better president. He has started to do some pretty ok things, this included. In addition, he signed a bill to prevent cruelty to animals, he reversed on the betrayal of the Kurds, and we might see a few other good things coming.
Regardless of the outcome or the political ramifications, doing the right thing often has unexpected and positive consequences. This is why I always would advice congress to do the right thing rather than the things that poll well or political science deems correct.
I was disappointed to hear that Obama thinks he could have stopped the nomination of Sanders by speaking up. Not only would this have been totally improper, it is arrogant to think he would have prevented it just by speaking out. If he tries to pull anything, or if the elites in the party try to pull a fast one on the people, they can expect a low voter turnout. I'll hold out my vote again if they do any such thing.
Do the right thing. This move, with regard to Hong Kong, was the right thing. Let's see more of it.
1
Trump getting better, probably not, Trump had no other option on this bill, he threatened a veto, but to veto a bill that passes the senate unanimously and has only one no vote in the house risks an embarrassing override.
3
@Dave Trump only did the right thing because he was forced.99.9% of Congress voted for it; Trump would have lost the veto vote. Trump is a coward who backs down if faced head on with a sure loss. Do the right thing and vote GOP out. Ray Sipe
1
@Greg Hanson - I agree. Trump isn't losing any political capital on this rare bill. In fact, it probably only serves to help his negotiating team in China as they know they're in the wrong by violating the 1984 treaty with UK regarding transfer of Hong Kong. There are plenty other rubber bullet manufacturers in the world for China to choose from including UK who invented them to take down the IRA during the "Troubles."
China probably isn't too worried about sanctions against specifics individuals involved in the Hong Kong spectacle nor the threat of denying China the USA market of rubber bullets. Rather, they want to focus on ending the trade war which has slowed their dynamo economic engine from a gallop to a slow trot.
Trump and China will agree prior to Dec. 15th to a "phase one" trade agreement which will only consist of Trump agreeing not to impose the tariffs (or significantly reduce the percentage) on consumer goods schedule for 12/15/19. The difference between the negotiating power of China vs. the USA is that Trump is worried about re-election in 2020. Nothing will turn off Trump supporters more than having to pay 25% more for stuff at WalMart, BestBuy, Home Depot, Target or Kohl's. China, on the other hand, doesn't have to worry about politics or optics related to the trade war.
Also, China has healthy relationships with the global community including both Saudi Arabia & Iran as well as Israel, Russia, North Korea, South America, Africa & Europe. In fact, North Korea acts as its military proxy against the USA & Japan. Not to mention their economy is 6.2% in 2019 versus the anemic USA growth of 2.0% which Trump boasts as "huge".
Trump's main focus, besides himself, is his political base. He cannot afford any drags on their support which would if he continues this tug of war as a test of power. He will declare a huge win when the political risk it too great to continue.
4
Congress has been unable to pass meaningful legislation for immigration or infrastructure, and yet they find the time to pass a law sanctioning China for wanting Chinese national laws to be enforced in all provinces of China. This is meddling in the internal affairs of another country, pure and simple. In the US, state to state extradition is mandated by the Constitution for felonies. Why would we insist that a single province of China be exempt from extradition laws? Sure, the Chinese judicial system is opaque, but that would be a reason to press for reforms, not a reason to say that one province be exempt from national extradition laws.
US involvement in the Hong Kong protests is not helpful (although I certainly understand the impulse to support democratic movements). We are cheerleading for the Hong Kongers to make a stand for freedom, BUT if the Hong Kongers do stand up and fight, there is zero chance that the US will help them. This is EXACTLY what happened when the west supported the 1956 Hungarian revolt. When the fighting started, all the cheerleaders disappeared, and the Hungarians found themselves alone in a bloodbath.
Congress has better things to do.
6
@ShenBowen - President Trump is perpetuating in his campaign of lies via tweets about the Democratic Congress's inaction on important issues. Instead, the reality is that over 75 passed bills are gathering dust in Senator McConnell's in-box. What is the Senate GOP and leader McConnell, in particular, doing every day besides obstructing justice. The GOP Senators only seem to get riled up about foreign affairs. The legislation against China's heavy hand in Hong Kong is largely symbolic as the USA is supposed to be the world's symbol of democracy.
The UK should be the country to step up and take this breach of the 1984 Margaret Thatcher agreement with Communist China to the World Court in the Hague, Netherlands for global condemnation of China's wavering from their initial agreement of the "one country, two system" agreement. It's puzzling why the UN's judicial court or the International Court of Justice hasn't made a public condemnation to this date.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/nov/14/what-congress-doing-besides-impeachment/
2
Well said!
@Dunca: Yes, it's true that house democrats have passed many bills sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk, but my point is that this particular bill regarding China was passed by both House and Senate. So, we can get bipartisan agreement on meddling in China's internal affairs, but we can't get bipartisan agreement on important domestic needs.
And, you are absolutely correct that it's Britain that should be complaining about China violating the 1984 Agreement. They should be standing up for the rights of Hong Kongers. Why aren't they? Because this treaty was ALWAYS a sham. When the Hong Kong lease period was over and Britain had to return the colony, this Treaty allowed Britain to save face. They could say that they were 'preserving the Hong Kong system' without having to take a stand for Hong Kong's freedom. The Treaty was never meant to be enforced. It was just a way for Britain to avoid embarrassment when handing a colony over to a Communist regime.
1
Thank you to the president, and I looking forward to the big demonstrations this weekend led by America's large Asian-American community, in favor of human rights and democracy in the Asia that they fled. College campuses and our big Chinese-American enclaves of Flushing NY and the San Gabriel Valley of Los Angeles would be great places to start. Also demonstrations by Chinese visiting students who know they can be safe and anonymous here.
1
@Snowball: So, if Chinese visiting students are reported to be in, or photographed in, pro-democracy demonstrations in the US, you think they will be "safe and anonymous here"? You think they will be granted asylum in the US when China discovers their activities? You think they will be aided by the US?
I don't think so.
And, while such demonstrations show support for democracy, what happens when Hong Kongers are encouraged to launch a full-scale revolt. Will Chinese-Americans stand beside the Hong Kongers and fight? I don't think so. When the fighting starts, the cheerleaders won't be there to help. They will be safe in the US.
1
@ShenBowen , they can put on masks, like the demonstrators in Hong Kong. We don't jail people for that. And you are nitpicking, and I think you know it. The main point is, where are the demonstrations?
1
@Snowball: I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were publicizing demonstrations that were planned to occur; now I see that you're chiding the Chinese-American community for not having demonstrations. My view is that such demonstrations are not helpful as they will further encourage the protests. The power differential between Hong Kong and the rest of China is simply too great for Hong Kongers to gain their freedom right now. To encourage this from afar is to invite a bloodbath. When the fighting starts, American protesters will not come to the aid of Hong Kongers.
Was I nitpicking? It's possible, I'm not sure. But I would not like to be in the shoes of a visiting Chinese student who gets arrested in the US during an anti-China protest (ski mask or not). People do get arrested at protests in the US (ask Jane Fonda). They would certainly be at risk of losing their visa from the US, and of reprisals from Beijing.
...And what about China's continuous theft and demand of US technology of US entities, both in China and the US;
...Ditto for our US universities of China's students here in the US;
...The building of China's artificial islands on and in international waters, and precluding its neighbors from their claims for those areas;
...The constant monitoring by the Chinese of US Cultural Centers in China, which has forced the closing of all of them in China;
...And the continuous expansion of China's Confucius centers throughout the US, and these should be monitored, disciplined and closed to the same extent that the Chinese conversely did to the US in China...
...so, how is the US condemnation of the right of the Chinese in Hon Kong to be free in is wrong?
So, what gives China their rights, while it continuously seeks the diminution of our rights and the rights of its neighbors...
...and what is China afraid of...reasonable freedom to live and to speak!
4
Even as our own political system and social norms collapse under the weight of fatal internal contradictions, with an ever more likely catastrophe of a second Trump term looming in 2020, Americans can't help themselves, they just have to meddle in the affairs of others, driven by a self-righteousness that smothers what little humility about their own factual ignorance of history or context they might otherwise manage to muster. In the modern era there has been no distinction between establishment Reps and Dems on this, they have been in a race to outdo one another, causing global havoc and instability in the process.
There is insufficient space here for a comprehensive criticism, but in broad strokes, the West, then led by Britain, stole Hong Kong from China as part of a century-long domination most Chinese still remember, and are determined never to allow to happen again. While the Chinese Communist Party was busy fighting to expel the foreigners, including Japan, the corrupt nationalist regime of Chiang Kai-shek was instead fighting the Communists. So Chinese patriots flocked to the communists and the overwhelmed nationalists fled to Taiwan. Naturally, the US sided with Chiang Kai-shek, until Nixon acknowledged reality.
As the legitimate successor government, the PRC rightfully reclaimed Hong Kong in 1997. So here are Americans once again, siding with colonial hooligans attempting to duplicate the original theft. They are deluded. The PRC will never allow that to happen.
7
@Jackson
Cascading collapse is a process, not a discrete event. In the US it has been underway since 1945. I have lived through most of it, including getting my hands bloody in the disgrace of Vietnam.
Oswald Spengler wrote the epic "The Decline of the West" before WW I, predicting that the vanguard of human development would gradually shift to the East. How does that look now, a century later?
As a historian, I do not subscribe to the inevitability of events. It is actually the inevitability of human folly that is easy to predict.
With your glib sarcasm, you fit right in.
3
@Migrateurrice
"...While the Chinese Communist Party was busy fighting to expel the foreigners, including Japan, the corrupt nationalist regime of Chiang Kai-shek was instead fighting the Communists. So Chinese patriots flocked to the communists and the overwhelmed nationalists fled to Taiwan..."
You're misleading. Both the CCP and KMT stopped the civil war and fought the Japanese together. Chiang Kai-shek’s lost a great deal of his army during the WWII. Sun Yat-sen is the father of China. Mao Zedong is the father of killing millions of Chinese people. The Chinese Communist Party is only 70 years old since 1949: over four millions killed in the Land Reform, 1950. Forty millions died in the Great Leap Forward, 1959. More than seven millions killed during the Cultural Revolution between 1967 and 1977. Do you deny the Tiananmen Massacre? How about Falun Gong? Do you still remember Tibet? Camps/jails?
Anyway, the CCP entered into an international treaty arrangement with the U.K. in 1985 that commits that nation to respect the liberal democratic self-governance of Hong Kong. The U.S. and every other country has a stake in the honoring of such treaties.
This bill is adding on to the United States–Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992, which gives Hong Kong a special status separate from the rest of mainland China. If the CCP wants to treat HK just like other cities in China then the US-HK policy act should be cancelled. The US has every rights to do so.
1
illuminating, in the era of facial recognition software and silicon based conceptions of "innovation," the stereotype that china is all about high tech and new tech for the global economy, to read that the core chinese government trade anxiety has to do with porcine protein and the supply of soy.
Trump does not care about human rights. He is playing with China.
4
The environment’s “health” is decreasing daily;
populism’s toxic shorter and longer term processes and
outcomes abound;policymakers, elected and selected, at
all levels and ideologies are enabled to operate with
personal unaccountability;conflicts are everywhere; a
WE-THEY culture is empowered and ever-present,
harming by words and deeds created, selected and
targeted “the other(s);” generalizable FACTs, and their
derived created TRUTHS, fundamentals for menschlich,
civil societies, and their mutual trust, respect, gratitude
are being ravaged by people’s choices to BE complacent
about... or complicit in...and power games continue.
Played by flawed human beings whose life expectancies
are less certain than the CERTITUDEs of their promises.
“The center will not hold...” Another Thanksgiving.
In America. In China. In Mexico. Etc. Etc.
Another article to be read. Transmitted information!
Understood? Another page to turn. Another mantra to...
Let’s be clear: Trump signed those bills because he had no other choice. Congress made sure they could not be vetoed. It is reassuring that this legislative branch still has a semblance of a conscience, shown in its push to aid Ukraine and now against human rights’ violations perpetrated by China. But here is the bizarre twist. Trump can care less about victims of suppression and oppression. We had a front seat view of egregious actions against our neighbors south of our borders. And this trade war was initiated by Trump himself. Yes, China needed to be reined in, no question or doubt there. Yet there are other avenues, diplomatic efforts being first. However, both the word “diplomacy” and what it represents are anathema to this administration.
10
The resolution is just a useless piece of paper which everyone is getting in on after the fact though they had nothing to do with the events that prompted it. This is all we can expect from the phony hawks in Congress who prefer useless regime change to true democratic reform. The revolution on the streets of Hong Kong is written in blood not ink.
2
The US and China appear to be on a worrying collision course. US influence and power (catalyzed by the nationalistic approach of the Trump maladministration and abandonment by the US of its allies) is waning as Chinese influence and power is growing. It's the old power vs the new.
2
Just Like in a playground, bullies can act, and people can react. Critics of this law cannot stop how others around them react, it is within our democratic and sovereign right too!
Re Amazon and buying more stuff from China, I detest how Amazon does not state the country of origin of both seller and manufactured items. I refuse to support such practices.
Make a choice not to spend more on useless stuff. Donate in your loved one’s name to a charity of their choice. Enough of grasping useless, environmentally devastating. STUFF.
9
@pensour.
the US is a representative republic, not a pure democracy. Do you think it's a good idea to have the east and west coasts determine what folks in the 3000 miles between must do?
2
@Lane
If it means dumping Trump, yes.
2
I wonder how the 850 million Chinese lifted out of extreme poverty, according to the World Bank, feel about their government. That's 2.5 times the entire U.S. population. My guess is they are more worried about starving to death then human rights.
"Conversely In 2011 extreme poverty in the United States, meaning households living on less than $2 per day before government benefits, was double 1996 levels at 1.5 million households, including 2.8 million children."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
6
I'm not sure how he did it; but I am sure he did do it.
Trump sent a signal to China - a wink, perhaps - that effectively said: I have no choice. I don't want to sign this thing, but my hands are tied.
I propose this theory in case anyone wanted to attach something honorable to Trump's reluctant signature.
5
That lead picture looks like one out of a graphic novel. Drawn, not "snapped". Very unreal...very other worldly...
Which is how the whole of the current historical moment we're all living thru feels and too often looks. Out of this world. Not the world I was living in...but one out of some apocalyptic, dystopian graphic novel.
I too often feel Rip Van Winkle-ish these days...
3
Hong Kong is the internal affairs of China but also a human rights issue of the world. Legislation signed by Trump does not pose a direct challenge to Beijing rule but lets China know that the world is watching and hoping that China resolves the protest peacefully and without excessive violent lethal force.
It is not in the mutual interest of the world that the Trade talks be stalled or ended.
4
The only reason Trump signed the bill was because he knew Congress had the votes to override it. As with everything he does, it was based on how it would affect him personally and he could not bear the humiliation of having his veto nullified.
9
Please people, this is not about Trump. It's about our country's support of the people of Hong Kong. My personal contribution, small as it is, is to double down on my efforts to not buy Made in China.
28
The de-industrialization of the West led directly to the industrialization of China. In the US, we see shorter life expectancy from diseases of despondency; i.e. rust belt, robotics, trade and finance policies that globalizes wealth at workers' expense.
Opioid use, suicide increase, obesity, all illnesses of despair have increased, especially in former US manufacturing centers. End and reverse the trade practices of the last forty years and we will Make America Well Again. And put China (and a few American oligarchs) in their place.
6
While I applaud signing this Bill that had a bipartisan veto proof majority support, (let’s not get ahead of ourselves by giving credit to Trump because it was veto proof so if he didn’t sign it, it would be law anyways, his signing is just a stunt to not make him look weak to China), it’s still a travesty and an impeachable offense that he undermined Ukrainian Democracy in a shake down because Putin asked him to.
6
No fan of Trump, but pleased he signed this.
Canada has its own strong Hong Kong connection. Nevertheless, expectations seem low that our PM, who may not even be in office in two years time, would ever sign anything that would support the Hong Kong freedom fighters.
Always find it tough to give Trump credit for anything, but this time feels different. Even if it is mostly for show.
6
Knowing the history of China's human rights policy, the situation in Hong Kong is not going to go well. The absolute power Mr. Xi controls will force him to show no weakness. A trade deal may help the wealthy in Chine but not ensure iron-fisted control of the masses. Trump is in way over his head with this one. His arrogance regarding trade and foreign policy will result in gross injustice for the people of China and the USA.
2
I love all the Americans on here so convinced that China will huddle into a ball and cry and do what we tell her, It's 2019 folks, an while China is guilty of most of what the world accuses her of, she is too big and too integrated into world trade to push around,
Not a fan of the communist crackdown, but China will for now choose its own path on Hong Kong, trade and relations with the US,
No, not gonna be a big victory grin for Don, as he knows this is still a two way street, Meanwhile China under Xi is developing new markets and turning to domestic sales to cover itself in the conflict,
Trump will try to say US won big time with this signing of the statement on Hong Kong, but he'll fold when the time comes,
5
@Ira Cohen ... Mr Cohen, perhaps read the article more carefully. Trump signed the resolution in quiet and unpublicized circumstances, rather than making a big deal out of it.
2
The rest of the planet needs to join the trade war and reign China in once and for all before it's too late. Trump is right on this one regardless of his motivations.
11
@Sparky lol
If it was signed by Trump it has the same commitment as any other contract he ever signed, none.
6
This painterly photograph by Lam Yik Fei is outstanding !
5
The reality is that the Chinese Communist system of government is more suitable for a closed society that shuts itself off from the world than for a leading global economic power that depends on trade relations with other countries for its success. There has to be an internal realignment of power that recognizes this reality. Retreat to the rigid Communist doctrine of the past is unthinkable. Trump must be given his due for forcing the issue and hastening things. He is doing the same to Iran. The only ones refusing to recognize his success are the Democrats who much prefer impeachment. Well, sour grapes to them. The world is passing them by.
10
@Edward I agree. It proves that even a blind squirrel finds acorns now and then.
We also should recognize that we can walk and chew gum at the same time. The scary thing about Trump is he is way over his head without being able to manage a relationship with China. Economically the two countries need each other.
AS China gains economic strength, the less influence the United States will have over them. The next was will be a cyber war. GEAR-UP!
2
@Edward China is not a closed society as you understood. Every year there are few millions of Chinese visitors travelling the world including us either in sight seeing, stuff buying, learning, and/or cultural exchanges. They all go back to China by elevating their society and government for the better. I bet you haven't travelled to China lately. May be you should go there for once that will change your paradigm and your perspective of China.
3
The legislation is largely symbolic of not much enforcement. But China is going to use it to turn down the trade deal since they have supplanted the loss of export deal with a trade deal with other countries. In addition, the start and stop stalling negotiation over 2years had given China time to find replacement vendor for their high tech needs and Huawei is no longer needs Chips nor Google for their phone by decoupling from the US. Selling your tech stocks for Christmas and wish the best luck for all the fly-over Trump supporters.
1
The US needs to take a stand against Beijing’s attacks on individual liberty. While that is unlikely under a president who hates individuals liberty, this is a start.
10
Unfortunately, the United States has very little credibility on human rights. Any US criticisms of China’s actions (which are abysmal) appropriately call into question the US’s treatment of immigrants (separating and losing children) and minorities (deep history of racism), reversal on environmental efforts and non-proliferation, civilian drone bombings (Afghanistan) and supporting foreign dictators in immoral wars (Saudi Arabia in Yemen). Any American condemnation of foreign governments at this point is for ill-informed domestic constituent consumption, because anyone paying attention to the broader landscape will only be disgusted by the hypocrisy.
2
@Anthony I probably think as much of Sean Hannity as you do, but your remark only solidifies his theory that Trump could cure cancer and continue to be roundly despised by the elite. Please continue this peevishness through the first week of November.
5
Everything is TRANSACTIONAL with this president. "That is a person who is transactionally oriented. They'll only respond to your request if you act in return. That's what we call a cold, business mindset.True relationships are about being unconditional, and transactions create distance in them. Transactions also mean we carry no weight."
The human rights legislation is well meaning for some but not when it is signed by a person who has completely burned up his street "cred" as a well meaning person.
2
Just a small point on the legislation that bans sale of US manufactured tear gas.
I’ve been a consumer of tear gas in my days in Army training and thereafter during anti-war protests. I suspect whatever came my way was manufactured in the United States.
So, if the Chinese buy elsewhere, where would they get it, what quality standards would apply? Would there be a greater risk to protesters, if the non-US manufacturer messed with the formula?
Just a reminder that sometimes, acts for salutary purposes have bad consequences.
7
Donald Trump - the great human rights champion of fantasists nationwide !
Elected by a minority of citizens on a firm foundation of right-wing widespread voter suppression laws, voter file purges and Republican dirty tricks, he champions 0.1% and corporate welfare and record income inequality, healthcare unaffordability, Grand Old Pollution, environmental destruction, religious pablum, evisceration of all of America's governmental institutions, eradication of facts, and fear and loathing for the teeming masses.
He is 'a man of the people' ..... always fighting for the little guy.
68
@Socrates
Serious question - would you rather he didn't sign the bill?
47
@West Coaster He signed it because it actually makes very little difference to his real interactions with China. Hit them with a feather again and again! So tough.
5
@B. Rothman
Hong Kong and the psychological torture of the Uyghurs are the same problem in the end.
2
The public rhetoric from Beijing is always the same. "Resolutely" this, "bully hegemon" that, "stop interfering in our sovereign affairs" the other thing.
.
When they're talking at private meetings, they have admirals who laugh when suggesting blowing up one of our fleet and killing "3,000 American sailors." They have a foreign minister who makes the ugliest threats about what he calls the "black hand" of the US, stirring up trouble in HK. They run TV shows of militaristic propaganda in which we're the enemy, which is what their children learn from kindergarten and have been since 1949, with a few years hiatus, after normalization and before Tiananmen.
.
They have state sponsored hacking efforts that have stolen trillions of dollars of our IP. They've built and militarized fake islands in their neighbors' Exclusive Economic Zones in the South China Sea. They regularly use economic extortion against our businesses that don't do as told or say something that "offends the Chinese people." Look what they're doing to the NBA. And they have more than a million of their own citizens incarcerated in concentration camps because they're Muslims.
.
Breaking their legally binding, international treaty on Hong Kong is just the latest.
.
How did we ever think it was OK to start trading with a country ruled by that government?
49
Because they can earn A LOT of money due to the large volume of consumers in China. Look at the difference in earnings of movies in US vs Internationally you’ll get the picture. That’s why every American company want a piece of China.
3
@West Coaster
The short answer is expanded trade ties was beneficial to US big business and the economic modernization goals of the CCP. US big business could offshore manufacturing to a country with low cost labor where the "labor unions" are controlled by the CCP. The US side could also avoid the environmental costs associated with manufacturing. US politicians and big business deluded themselves into thinking expanded trade would foster greater democracy in China and lead to greater market access to a billion plus Chinese consumers.
4
The CCP bit off more than it could comfortably ingest when it annexed Hong Kong back into the evolving post-Mao "Peoples' Republic". But now the whole world is watching as the CCP tries to figure out how to deal with the recalcitrant foster child. Despite the bumbling incompetent leadership in America, China cannot blame the U.S. for its own mistakes. The CCP is in the process of killing the goose that was laying golden eggs as the East Asian banking and commerce capital. If the CCP squeezes too hard to rein in Hong Kong it will strangle its economy and force business elsewhere in East Asia.
11
@RLW By destroying their own city, Hong Kong rioters/protesters are making Hong Kong irrelevant to China and to the world. The 'goose that was laying golden eggs' has been surpassed by mainland cities like Shenzhen -- according to some sources, Hong Kong contributes less than 5% of China's overall GDP at this point in time. I find it interesting that some of the most pressing issues facing these protesters, like income/wealth inequality and lack of affordable housing (problems of western industrialized countries), have much more to do with the capitalistic economic system (enshrined in the one-country, two systems principle), than the communist political system of mainland China. Yet, not one of these protesters has been seen railing against capitalism.
@Charles D.
You're missing the point if you only look at the GDP. Hong Kong is the paradise for mainland Chinese and the CCP to get their money out from mainland China to HK and then to America, Canada, Australia and Europe...etc. There are restrictions to exchange from Renminbi to USD. But we can exchange from HKD to USD without restrictions. Google about the history between HKD and USD.
If you want to know why Shenzhen and Shanghai can't replace HK, please also read about the United States–Hong Kong Policy Act of1992.
The CCP's debt is going up to the roof. HK is indispensable to the continuing economic growth of the Communist China, especially with the downturn of economy in mainland now. "Aug 8, 2019 - About 70% of the capital raised on it is for Chinese firms, but strikingly ... Most Chinese foreign direct investment flows through Hong Kong" from economist. Look at what Alibaba is doing in HK, $13 billion HK stock sale this week. Who want Renminbi?
Lastly, this is the main reason to protest: genuine universal suffrage, which is written in the Hong Kong Basic Law. HKers should have it before 2007, but the Chinese Communist Party took it away from us. The CCP is not honoring the "One Country, Two Systems." The CCP entered into an international treaty arrangement with the U.K. in 1985 that commits that nation to respect the liberal democratic self-governance of Hong Kong. The U.S. and every other country has a stake in the honoring of such treaties.
2
While this aggressive stance may appeal to Trump's chest thumping supporters, Trump has a history of making quick, unilateral decisions, and then looking for data to support those decisions. His behavior is better described as "guessing" and "knee jerk", subservient to whoever speaks to him last. You'd hardly appreciate your doctor or airline pilot exercising his/her duties in this manner.
An alternative to Trump's "gut feel" decision making is a reasoned approach that seeks input from various branches of government before a plan of action is enacted. But if Donald were a doctor, it would not surprise me to hear him advocate "bleeding" as a means of curing disease because he saw it on FOX and then asking for ancient history books to support his decision.
As evidenced by his mishandling of the Ukraine extortion gambit, Trump is not a very good criminal so allowing him to manage America's world affairs w/o oversight and input is the equivalent of suicide.
The most appalling, mind numbing example of gross mismanagement is Trump's handling of Climate Change. The evidence is overwhelming, agreed to by every scientist, but seven billion people are held hostage by one buffoon who gets campaign contributions from corporations which sell coal & help him rent hotel rooms.
13
@Option Trader
This was passed by both Houses of Congress first.
In other words the president's policies have tamed the Chinese communists bite.
Imagine what the Chinese dictator would be doing if he wasn't fearful of tariff retaliation.
An unforeseen but another win for America and the world.
6
Why is the US the only country taking action on this? As usual Europe talks a big game but is silent when it most counts.
36
@ the midst of Babylon- and where was the US to condemned the murder by Saudies
2
Hong Kong was created in the first place as an isolated port where Chinese and Western business people could trade with each other, while keeping the round-eyes out of China proper.
It still serves that purpose and exists for that reason.
Who is kidding whom? Like Macao, etc., it exists for the benefit of the mandarins as a playground and shield for behind-the-scenes money deals.
It exists at the sufferance and for the pleasure of whoever rules Beijing -- always has, always will. All show of independence is pretense.
10
I have to say I'm impressed that Trump would let human rights jeopardize the sale of tear gas and bullets.
But let's not kid ourselves. The bill would have become law anyway. It was an easy point for Trump.
Today I am thankful that there are people in the world who understand that democracy and dignity have always been on the defensive, who are not corrupted by cynicism and nihilism, who can imagine a better world and who are willing to sacrifice and struggle for it. Sounds like America.
8
This arrangement between the global elites and the CCP created fantastical cities in China and ruined cities in the West with no democratic systems in sight.
It will be a painful reset for many a US CEO as this disengagement leads to a new Cold War.
10
But we should always argue for those pro-democracy people in all cases, in all situations. It should be what we do.
7
To those of you who believe this is feel-good diplomacy: you are right, it is. Yet, the people on the ground are so desperate about the impending authoritarian backslide that they will take anything from anyone. This means we need more, not less, stands against autocrats: revoking Hong Kong's special status punishes the wrong people, why not sanction China directly?
To those who say you can't: you can, if you are willing to pay your personal cost in standing up for the Uyghurs, Tibetians, Hong Kongers and everybody else brutally surpressed within China's sphere of influence.
Please, I understand your frustrations with Mr. Trump, but flooding the comments with 'I wish we... [insert Trump related fiasco]' appropriates and distracts attention away from our struggles.
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@T Yes. Our own autocrat is that proverbial stopped clock. So let us agree with this signing, which was easy for him, and work to get leaders who truly take a stand for human rights.
If we do not do this and work towards it our time will come to be out in the streets.
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Sending you heartfelt support and solidarity in your struggle. I am glad that Trump signed this bill, though it may have been with fingers crossed. What matters is the bill and it’s demonstration of American belief in democracy and freedom.
You are setting an example for us Americans who feel the oncoming threat of totalitarianism. Courage to you in your struggle and sacrifice as you stand against this oppression for so long and in such great numbers. May a better day come for us all, and speedily.
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@T Agree completely. But the best thing that Americans can do to help Hong Kong is to elect another American President who will truly support Hong Kong. While it's a tremendous relief that the GOP forced Trump to sign, he can easily do nothing else - at all - and even make things worse for Hong Kong in various ways. America is forced to concentrate on discerning the propaganda from reality, fully grasping Trump's flaws and crimes. Because this effort to clarify, for anyone willing to listen, can (and must) translate into voting him out in 2020. Which will better for the entire world.
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Any analysis of this trade deal must be balanced against the deals that Hillary would have made; Same gains, less pain.
5
@EEE
Obama was forced to exit from the rear of the plane when he visited China. No Red Carpet, no fanfare, just exit from the rear of the plane or stay on it. China does not respect weakness and there is no reason to believe they would have seen strength in Hillary when they failed to perceive it in Obama. That means she would have never gotten anything close to a concession in a trade deal with China.
Threatening to retaliate against Hong Kong drafters of US legislation standing with the protestors, but not against US for passing the legislation. Seems like China is again proving to be a typical bully, lashing out at weaker foes, but merely bluster towards bigger ones. Maybe it really is a paper tiger!!!
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As long as DJT is in office and part of this negotiation the US will be at a major disadvantage.
Global economic policy deliberations require intelligence, insight and attention to detail- all are things that elude DJT.
I do not support the Chinese and there regime against individual liberty but given that DJT has no interest in listening to advisers, changes course without notice and thinks he is always the smartest one in the room is a recipe for disaster for the US.
Vote 2020!
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@Is_the_audit_over_yet
"As long as DJT is in office and part of this negotiation the US will be at a major disadvantage."
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Sorry, he may not have it all figured out, but there was no negotiation before Trump. Clinton helped them into the WTO on wildly incorrect assumptions, and Bush and Obama did nothing while they ran roughshod over international agreements of all sorts.
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I don't care for the guy, but he's done more than anyone to alert the world to the huge problem that "New China" has become under the CCP.
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@West Coaster
"but there was no negotiation before Trump"
Well, that's demonstrably not true.
Obama negotiated the Trans Pacific Partnership, which arrayed 12 countries as a bloc against China. Strength in numbers in other words. Trump thinks, since he is smarter than the generals, the diplomats, and the security experts, that only He can "win".
2
It WAS my understanding that the US Constitution provided certain separate roles and powers the the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of government and that foreign policy was an exclusive role of the Executive Branch (with the exception of funding).
Now it seems everything has changed. Not only has the Executive Branch been divided and conflicted between the White House and the State Department, but now we witness the Legislative Branch initiating US foreign policy in both the far east and the middle east.
Where is the United States of America headed in the absence of a meaningful Constitution?
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@Greg
Not only has the Executive Branch been divided and conflicted between the White House and the State Department, but now we witness the Legislative Branch initiating US foreign policy in both the far east and the middle east.
Where is the United States of America headed in the absence of a meaningful Constitution?
[ Brilliant and tragic. ]
4
@Greg: The US has something called an Electoral College that appoints our Chief Executive. As proven in 2016 that has little to do with the will of the electorate or the popular vote. Our law-making process can be blocked by a separate legislative body called The Senate. That allows only two votes per state, regardless of population, which can vary between states by a ratio of as much of 73:1.
Do not confuse this system with a democracy.
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@Greg
Actually, this is quite legal under the Jackson Vanik amendment to the Trade Act of 1974, which gave Congress the authority to, at the time, deny most favored nation trading status to countries with poor human rights records. It was initially aimed at the USSR over their refusal to let Jews emigrate to Israel. Later we applied it to China, after Tiananmen.
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Clinton talked Congress into passing a law giving China permanent normal trade relations in 2000, primarily with GOP support.
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This is a cousin to all of that.
3