Finally, the first article in nyt that doesn't attack Biden. Watch the debates and you'll see Joe Biden, the next President of the US.
5
My millenial daughter loves Biden. She says he makes her feel safe.
That's a big part of what's going on.
16
Biden is old and tired, with tired ideas. If by some miracle he is elected, he is hardly likely to survive his first term. But the real problem is that he is no more blue-collar than Trump. As senator from Delaware he was a shill for the corporations, and his collaboration with the Republican conservatives was no fluke - remember Anita Hill?
Check out Middle Class Joe's tax returns and real estate holdings....although he is not a Clinton-level buck-raker.
Of course they do. fortunately there is a growing number of us who expect more, someone who can stare down the good. Joe hasn't the stomach to do more than average.
I'm not an ardent Biden supporter, however, I do think he would do a good job as president. Our process is unfortunate in that it so heavily rewards someone who is good at campaigning and at scoring zingers and sound bites in debates. Unfortunately, these skills have little to do with being a good leader.
15
Sorry Trump Voters in Diners, you've been cast aside for Biden Voters in Diners
2
To Steve Buchmeier, who said, "“The U.S. isn’t ready for a girl."
1. Woman, not girl. Please.
2. Lest you forget, a "girl" won the popular vote in 2016.
10
Every politician is "one of you" until elected. Then we'll tell you how to live your life.
Biden is our best chance of beating Trump. He has extensive experience in Congress and the Executive Branch and understands exactly what changes are possible, what changes are a fool's errand, and how to build bipartisan coalitions that would help heal the nasty partisanship that has affected this country. We need Biden now. It's time for us coastal elites to put aside our preferences and allow the blue collar folks in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Arizona, New Mexico, and North Carolina dictate who our next candidate will be. They will be the most important voters in this historical election.
33
@JG
"It's time for us coastal elites to put aside our preferences and allow the blue collar folks in..."
It's time for you coastal elites to stop ignorantly assuming that blue collar people are overwhelmingly moderate and conservative and don't like progressive ideas. Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton in Michigan and Wisconsin in 2016, two important states she went on to lose to Donald Trump. Bernie did better in the middle of the country than he did on the ends.
Educate yourself, please.
11
@JG
Remember back in '13, during the gov. shutdown; Harry Reid asked the Whitehouse to keep Biden away from negotiations?~!
Biden, negotiating for the White House with McConnell, (after going around Reid, straight to Biden) agreed instead to a compromise that permanently froze tax rates for families earning income up to $450,000 per year while halting sequestration’s severe spending cuts for only two months.
Said one Democratic aide. “Vice President Biden negotiated it down to two months. That’s not negotiation. That’s capitulation. The entire caucus was furious.” https://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/joe-biden-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling-097969
We've already experienced Biden's savvy. He was asked to please stop. As Obama said, "Joe, you don't have to do this".
Biden would be a Dem mistake, and an easy chew toy to the Republican machinations.
3
When will Americans start voting for the person who has the best policies instead of voting for someone "they can have a beer with" or someone who "seems to be like me?" Americans are a strange breed.
25
Strange brew.
1
@Paul
When will Americans start voting for the person who is the most competent?
4
Are you any more sure of Biden beating Trump in 2020 as you were of Hillary beating Trump in 2016?
You can keep on saying it all you want as a self-limiting hope, but there are several other candidates that can beat Trump, too.
It’s still early days, so don’t let either fear or the media echo chamber decide your vote. Have the courage of your convictions.
10
@Joel H Very much. Joe would have won in 2016. I bet the farm that Hillary would lose. No one believed me.
5
I’m working class and sorry, I don’t feel any connection to Mr. Biden. He has had almost a half of a century in Congress and as a Vice President. He has had ample opportunities to make life just a little bit more fair for the working person. but has chosen not to do so. Why should I expect anything different from Biden now?
22
@Brian Moore Working people voted for Reagan, voted for right-to-work, voted against worker safety and environmental protection. Biden didn't tell them to do that.
13
Vice President Biden’s roots are in coal country in Pennsylvania. He’s always advocated for the working American seeking community support for jobs, healthcare for all, and public education. Please reconsider him as a viable candidate for working Americans.
22
@Brian Moore
Are you a Democrat or Republican?
4
Living here on the west coast I am a bit tired of all of the media focus on "battleground states" and high school educated working class voters. What does that make the rest of us, chopped liver. The rest of the nation has opinions and have votes. Personally I want someone intelligent, visionary and who offers the hope of a better future. For me Biden offers a look back, not a look forward. I am 70 years old and I think that the nation is desperately in need of a "girl" president, men have made a big mess of things and no one more than trump.
17
Everyone has a right to vote regardless of economic status. Also, not everyone wants to adopt all of the progressive viewpoints as fast as you want them too.
Sometimes, people have to be educated on why complex progressive policies are good ideas. Do the work.
15
Andd some progressive ideas are just, you know, bad ideas
5
@Steve, I’m with you - I’d love to see a ‘girl’ president! Unfortunately, I think there’s a lot of folks that are not with us on this one and I’m sorry to say, they include members of my own gender.
But I’m hoping to see it in our lifetimes!
1
Biden is the guy. Figure out who the VP will be and let's put this thing to bed. Stop trying to make a statement or try to be "woke" or whatever other nonsense you focus on besides winning. Focus on winning. This is how to win: Biden/Pete, Biden/Amy, Biden/Abrams. Don't try to make some pie in the sky statement and condemn us to another 4 years of this terror. Get the ball back and THEN focus on how far we can advance the ball once we have possession again.
81
@Scott S.
Being tied to Joe Biden at this point would both be a bad strategic and career move.
9
@cl I would think 4 more years of Trump will be a worse strategic and career move. For all of us.
18
@Scott S.
Bingo. When Biden was leading six months ago, detractors chalked it up to him being a household name. When he was winning three months ago, they said his lead would drop end once people got to know Elizabeth Warren.
Now, with just over two months until the primaries, Biden is still ahead in most polls. Even after lackluster debate performances, and a ton of press about Warren.
Biden may have been overestimated at the beginning, but he’s being underestimated now. He’ll likely be the Democratic nominee.
10
Can’t figure out why anybody would want someone “like them” for president. Whatever happened to wanting someone “better than them,” ie, smarter, more vision, more capable. Y’know: Lincoln, Kennedy...inspiring figures. Not just Average Joes.
I guess you get what you vote for, except when the Electoral College decides.
45
@James
The really incredible thing are the people who believe Trump is like them. Why, because he's ignorant and vulgar? At least Biden's had a sustained conversation with some of these voters during his career. The closest Trump has ever gotten to his diehard supporters is fenced-off at a podium in an arena, and he still has to immerse himself in a tub of Purell afterwards.
11
@stan continople
Actually I think there's a minimum hand-size requirement for purchasing Purell. But maybe he has his wife buy it for him.
2
Let's drive down the middle then vear left over time. If we swerve too far left we will oversteer and end up on a ditch for another four years. Let's build on the Obama legacy and move forward.
RBG needs to be able to retire. Let's select a candidate that is palatable to middle America and a history of getting things done. We can build from there.
We can not build on a Supreme Court with a 6-3 Conservative majority. That will lead to decades of judicial blocks to progressive values.
20
Biden is clearly the best hope for beating Trump. Like the last election, this one will come down to working class voters in a few key states. These union voters do not want to lose their healthcare. They do not want open borders. They want a moderate who will keep things more or less the same. That is Biden. It is not Sanders or Warren.
24
@Ben
Rather than catering to ignorance and risk trash-talking Trump mopping up the debate floor with fumblin' and stumblin' Joe, how about we hip your working class in a few key states to the fact that Warren doesn't advocate them losing their healthcare and their borders, at all?
3
Biden has some decent policy positions, but there are others in the race that are similar and don't have their children in the middle of a questionable employment decision. They also don't produce gaffes at the rate that he does. Those gaffes wouldn't be problematic if he decided to continue his public service in some cabinet position that took advantage of his policy and knowledge of the world's player's, but having him front and center as the nominee is going to cause a lot of people to stay home on election day. This one is too important to lose, if he bows out before they put Hunter Biden under the microscope he would be leaving as a well regarded elder statesman, but if he stays in he will be regarded as crooked as the Clintons.
18
@Kevin
Sad state of affairs that you think putting his son, Hunter under the microscope will be a defining issue. Seriously? And - apparently there is no "there - "there" in the case of Hunter Biden. And... how do you explain those ridiculous Trump kids if a presidents' children are to be a big issue to voters?
Biden's gaffs worry me - but I have no doubt with his experience he would surround himself with strong people and restore some sense of dignity and wisdom to our policies both domestically and especially internationally.
3
just shows how naive the average Joes are. The guy spend most
of his life as a Senator, and they think he is 'one of them'. No wonder they like Trump as their defender.
2
@yulia
Wrong. The fact that Trump is president shows just how "naive" the average Joes are.
1
“We sort of stopped talking to our base: high school-educated Americans.”
The corporate Democrats stopped "listening" to the working class long ago while impoverishing an entire generation of them with deals such as NAFTA. And now they are singing the same old song and dance of "incrementalism" a euphemism for the status quo, that in 2016 gave us Trump.
Nominate another centrist corporate Democrat in 2020 and cement 4 more years of Trump.
3
@mlb4ever What Nafta started, abolishing ICE and decriminalizing illegal border crossings would finish.
2
It’s apparent that the most enthusiastic supporters here of Biden and other moderates are the limousine liberals in NYC and CA who are afraid of having to pay more taxes.
4
@BK
The problem with making generalization is that all too often they miss the mark.
As for moderates, there are far more of them than those on the right or left.
1
@N. Smith
So you’re from NYC and proved my point.
It’s simple. We know Biden can beat Trump and we know the country would be safe in Biden’s hands.
9
We tend to start with our prejudice, then select only facts that support it, while ignoring anything to the contrary
So - if we like somebody, we tend to willingly overlook their failings as human foibles, while supporting them through thick and thin
attribution bias -
if somebody I like succeeds, the system is working as it should.
if somebody I dislike succeeds, there was corruption in the system.
if somebody I dislike fails, the system is working as it should.
if somebody I like fails, there was corruption in the system.
1
Let’s put it this way...if DJT is scared of Joe Biden, then I’m all for Joe Biden.
8
@Brian: DJT is scared of everyone.
4
I read the article and then said, I'll read the comments and see how Joe gets knocked around. Sure enough, that's what I found.
There must be a reason Trump is fearful of Biden. Whatever it is, it's to Biden's credit. Rather than dump on Biden, Democrats' need some criticism for coming up with just so-so candidates. No stars. No one who thrills those listening. Old Joe being the leader is a commentary on the lack of excitement found from the other candidates, unable so far to break through.
6
I am working class and so far as I can tell the working class would rather have the establishment walk themselves off a cliff than run for office. Most of us view Trump as an establishment conspiracy to endear establishment corruption.
We have not forgotten the 2016 wikileak that showed us how the democratic party had no regard for democratic sentiment. Bernie should have been the 2016 nominee but they gave it to crooked Hillary instead because she is a corporate hack, like Biden.
4
One of these days, someone will explain to me how a spoiled brat rich kid like Donald Trump passes for a ‘man of the people.’
He’s never done a hard day’s work in his life; his daddy bought his way into college and out of the military. His children are spoiled brat know it alls, show offs and bullies just like he is.
He did the lazy ‘gentleman’s C’ thing and pretended to be a playboy.
He spent his adult life grifting and grafting, losing hundreds of millions of other peoples money in ill-conceived, poorly executed and badly timed business ventures.
He ran a phony “University,” paid off ‘porn stars” to shut them up, brags about how ‘smart’ it is to dodge paying taxes rather than ‘waste his money’ supporting the common good.
Having stumbled into the White House through an Electoral College fluke, his ‘accomplishments’ include gutting regulations that protect ‘the little guy’ from financial fraud, pollution, plunder and profiteering on public lands; imposition of tariffs on the imported goods working people buy at Walmart; taking health insurance away from millions. And the crowning Trump achievement: a trillion dollar tax cut for the rich that directly resulted in a huge increase in the federal deficit, that serves as the excuse for not rebuilding rotting infrastructure or funding social programs. And then there’s that dumb wall that Mexico will buy.
How in the name of heaven is that ‘a man of the people’? What is ‘populist’ about that? Inquiring minds want to know.
22
@chambolle He said their jobs had been shipped overseas or given to cheap imported labor.
2
I wonder how many of the average joes quoted here remember that 20% credit card interest payment they sent to Delaware, or the Panama Papers revelation that there is no need to go overseas to set up a tax dodge. Delaware USA will do fine.
Joe Biden served his Delaware constituents well from 1973 to 2009. He got his son his first job at MBNA. Then Barack Obama choose him, the experienced Pol to reassure voters that he could get his agenda passed, as his Vice President.
The eight years of Obama/Biden resulted in record losses for Democrats in local, state and federal elections, resulting in fewer Democrats in office since the 1920’s.
Joe Biden has stated that President Obama encouraged Hillary Clinton to run in 2016
I’m guessing that if President Obama had paid more attention to Democratic Party politics while in office, the voters cited here would have a broader choice today.
5
This is getting scary if the best we can do is a 77 year old man who misspeaks frequently and is way beyond his sell date. I can picture millions not voting. He is about as exciting as watching paint dry!
4
@mfiori Dear mfiori: My 16 year old daughter and I recently had the privilege of meeting Joe in Vermont. It was 7 p.m., at least the 4th or 5th event he had been to that day, and he was, simply, great. He was funny, incisive, inclusive, amazingly high energy and quite compelling. A very nice lady we had been talking to pointed to my daughter and told Joe "This young lady rode 2 hours to meet you today;" he instantly turned and spoke to her for a good 5 minutes, just extremely genuine; asking her about herself, and imploring her to get involved and stay involved and even run for office some day. I hope you get the chance to meet Joe someday, because he is a good man, and he will be a great President. Joe appeals to all Americans, and he will whup the living tar out of little Donnie Dish it Out (but he can't take it) -- excuse me, I mean -- he will defeat President Trump come November 2020. Go Joe!
3
He, he, he, Joe was not able to whip Dems to accept the public option in 2008, and now he will whip Trump?
Biden gave us Clarence Thomas. I will never forget or forgive him for what he did to Anita Hill. Look who his donors are. Compare that to Bernie.
6
At a certain point you just have to call ignorance ignorance.
"Identifying" with a candidate is ridiculous as the main criterion for voting for them. Why don't people get that the persona they see in a long time politician is not the actual person? It's the public face of a politician.
Biden is not an everyman. It is disgusting when he "resonates" with low information voters by telling them they should resent others for telling them what their interests are. One, that's a false construct and two, that's exactly what he's doing in telling them they aren't listened to. Biden is a white collar big money corporatist. That is his policy position where it counts. He has been that for nearly 50 years. He abandoned his "roots" long ago.
Obviously any Democrat is far better than Trump. But there are far better Democrats who will be far stronger against Trump. This whole second guessing thing is how democrats will lose. Vote for the candidate who proposes the policies you want to see in place. Not what you think will be the choice of others. Doing that is succumbing directly to manipulation by the financial elite who own the media. If you think guaranteed health care is a sensible thing for the well being of citizens of the wealthiest nation on earth vote for that. Voting against it because you've been told others will vote against it is classic propaganda strategy. If everyone goes for what they actually want, it then has the best chance of happening.
9
@trebor Thank you.
This comment should be a NYT Pick.
3
"he has absorbed ferocious attacks from Democrats and Republicans alike — including baseless attacks on his family from Mr. Trump."
O.K.
I like Biden. If I were American I'd vote for him.
And what Trump did in withholding aide to Ukraine is criminal.
But are the attacks on Joe's son baseless?
I have yet to see the NYT address that issue directly. What exactly is Hunter Biden accused of? Is there any evidence to support Trump's claims?
Remember- Hunters guilt or innocence is irrelevant in the sense that Trump is equally guilty regardless. Even if he was guilty of corruption in the Ukraine (and most of the ruling elite are) that doesn't excuse Trump's behaviour.
Not to mention Trump's mind boggling hypocrisy.
1
Dems, please, let’s all coalesce and unify behind one person (at last, finally), and get this done.
I don’t care who the Democratic nominee is at this point. I would vote for Bozo the Clown if he was the Dems nominee (can’t, though - he’s already in the White House).
But you get my point. If we continue to circle the idealistic wagons and shoot ourselves, we’ll have four more years to lick our wounds and debate over The who, what, where, why and how if why we lost the election and allowed an ignoramus to run the country for another 1,461 days.
Do we really want that?
Unify. Convene. Come Together. Right Now!
11/3/20. VOTE.
5
Biden? A working-class ally? The jokes write themselves.
5
Even though he's not.
2
If any left-leaning person in this thread thinks it's worth having four more years of trump rather than getting their second or third choice in Joe Biden please raise your hand and then look yourself in the mirror.
11
@Haynannu The tragic answer for some of the "enlightened" is that yes they will stay home and here I fervently hope I'm wrong. Yes, the former Vice President is showing his age but old Bernie just had a cardiac event and his zealots don't mention that as disqualifying.
There is only one issue. Trump and the party of his enablers, the Republicans. It's our democracy and our republic and the rule of law all in the balance. Sen. Warren thrills the grad degree white upper-middle. They do not reside in the critical states in sufficient numbers to win this. If only she had expressed even a small interest in broadening her following and acknowledging the party isn't just academics and policy wonks. I get that she needs to blunt Sanders with left activist zeal but Ms. Warren it's a Big Tent, Senator.
3
“This Trump man has got to go,” she said.
Amen. If it takes Biden to do it, so be it. There are others I personally prefer more, but I don't get to decide. Support your favorites and maybe they'll get the nomination, but if they don't, there's nothing wrong with Biden, especially if he continues to poll the best.
18
The Democrats need someone like Joe Biden, but 20 years younger, to win the blue collar vote.
It frustrates me that they can't find someone.
1
@Lars i am okay with his age. Reagan and Trump have shown that you can surround yourself with good people and bad people but if you listen to the good people your administration will do ok. I believe joe will pick good people and listen to them.
3
@Lars Would you take 15 years younger? That's why Deval Patrick is in, and though I think it may be too late, and underfunded he could be our alternative If Joe stumbles badly. Best of all it's one of the rare but invigorating times when a black man has the advantage. I want to see Sanders and Warren attack him as a "phony" Democrat or a nibbler around the edges. Then try winning states with large African-American electorates Bernie and Lizbeth.
The impeachment process will be center stage in February. Trump and Republicans will be broadcasting Hunter Biden/Joe Biden corruption moral equivalency mud that will stick to sad Joe just like they did with Benghazi and emails to the most qualified Hillary.
Give the young people, the disaffected, ethnic identity groups and older people one thing each that will excite them to register, show-up and vote.
Joe is an old-time retail politician, but he’s carrying too much baggage to fool progressives.
Warren and Sanders will cancel each other out with evenly divided progressives.
Somebody make a deal and join forces!
2
The Trump administration was hoping Burisma would be to Biden what the private email server was to Clinton but it doesn’t matter in Iowa and Scranton, PA.
I love Sen. Warren but I just have a hard time believing America will vote for all at once:
1-Medicare for All, with no choice of private insurance.
2-Decriminalization of border crossing
3-Medicare for undocumented immigrants
4-Student loan debt forgiveness
Just to name a few. But I do think America will vote for a woman. If Warren is the nominee and loses it won’t be because she’s a woman. It will be because her ideas are way ahead of her time and someday someone will be elected with her big ideas.
12
The last quote is interesting. I didn’t know any girls were running for president, though there are a few women.
18
Oh how woke! All of this wokeness is why the voters this article focuses on will be driven away from your hoped for tent. Keep up the scolding!
3
Biden is just the personification of Chuck Schumer's fantasy that appealing to moderate Republicans will do something positive for the Democratic Party brand. Well, sure. It worked so well in 2016! Look around: The grip of the billionaire class is tightening, not loosening. From a story that appeared in this newspaper a month ago: "For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans last year paid a lower total tax rate — spanning federal, state and local taxes — than any other income group, according to newly released data." Sooner or later, this has got to stop. Joe Biden--the Senator From Mastercard--is not going to stop it. So go ahead and tell us how these blue-collar voters can't resist Joe's charming talk about Scranton. When it's time to vote their pocketbooks, they won't have to look far to see who's been picking their pockets.
13
@Bunk McNulty :
It's a shame when blue collar voters disappoint their intellectual superiors, isn't it.
2
I was fervently behind first Warren, second Bernie. I was sure that they matched my views far more than Biden. I did some research and discovered I was wrong. I am firmly in Biden's court. I'm as surprised as anyone else. I'm a working class nurse, and as much as I hate it, Biden will likely get my vote in the primary. I really wanted to vote for a woman.
14
@navybrat
It looks like you actually didn’t do that research and are uninformed of those candidates’ records.
2
As the GOP shifts further and further to the right it seems as though it is expected that the Democrats move more to center.
Why do the Democrats need to be the ones that hold the moderate line while the GOP push an ultra conservative agenda?
People say progressive like it is a bad word. Status quo is what has led us into a climate crisis, mass incarceration of minorities, the working poor, shoddy and expensive healthcare among other things.
I know it's frightening to nominate anyone that isn't an old white man but come on....we can do this...we just need to all believe that we can.
7
@Jaime well, we can nominate a far left candidate, but will we be able to convince Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida to vote for that far left candidate?
If not, then 4 more years of trumpus horribilus.
2
What are you talking about? A black man and a woman were the last Democrat nominees.
1
I am a 40 year old African American male who finds Joe Biden to be fake and dull. I will not be voting for Biden. Indeed, I don't know of many African Americans who are excited about him. For example, I was at the gym today, and had a brief conversation regarding the election with another black male - he an I both agree, the democrats are too left wing and are attempting to shame African Americans to vote for policies which are not in our best interest. I live in Atlanta, Georgia. I don't like Trump's views on the LGBT community, he is very liberal on that issue; however, I do support Trump's efforts to protect the 2nd amendment and secure the border.
3
@Jonathan have to ask what your thoughts are on health care especially coverage of pre-existing conditions? A healthy young man like yourself may not have too many needs now, but I can guarantee you that at some point in your life you will need health care, and when that time comes that will be the most important thing to you.
6
While I would vote for another candidate if the Dems had a high chance of winning regardless of whom we nominate, Im starting to think Biden may be the only sure winner who can beat Trump...when it gets down to actually voting I think most will opt for Biden because if nominated I think he will have a much higher percentage chance of winning. He won’t reflect it in the polls now but if selected for nomination, most all Dems and those who are having buyers remorse for voting for Trump last time will vote for him, whereas the others may induce a bunch of 3rd party votes. He should ask one of the more liberal candidates to run for VP with him to consolidate the party. I love the ideas of some of the more liberal candidates and this would keep those ideas alive and if Biden would promise only one term I think it would be a shoo in.
12
Headline is misleading. The candidate who has the most support for the least educated, lowest income and most racially diverse groups is Bernie Sanders. These are working class and minority cohorts. Biden has the support of black folks. Pew Research and other surveys in the last couple of months have shown this.
14
Let’s split the difference. Warren AND Biden, in that order. He was a great VP.
Seriously.
Soft support in the primarily will not translate into hard support during the election.
5
Old scrappy, Blue Collar Scranton; Joe left when he was six.
Owned and financed by the establishment political machine; of which he has been entrenched in for decades.
The candidate that pleaded with his billionaire donors, "Nothing will change!"
Business as usual, Status Quo Joe.
No.
45
@Dobbys sock
Oops, correction, Scrappy Joe left at age 10.
@Dobbys sock
Yep, he's played that card far too long. All the "moderates" are just corporate stooges. I guess Deval Patrick entered because the the plutocrats felt they were still insufficiently servile, whereas someone from Bain Capital would be more understanding of their special needs. Regrettably, the people in this article are as poorly informed as any Trump supporter.
1
That goes to show that impressions are often at odds with reality. Biden has been messing up things for working people his entire political career.
34
I have no doubt whatsoever: unless the Democratic Party manages to somehow nominate Donald Trump as their 2020 presidential candidate, I will enthusiastically support, donate to and vote for whichever person has the D next to their name. Full stop.
I think Bernie Sanders is a demagogue and would be a terrible president. But compared to Donald Trump he is 10 out of 10 in my book! I believe strongly Elizabeth Warren would be a fairly ineffective president alienating Congress, particularly the Senate. We could go on. But virtually ANYONE is a vast alternative to the ignorant, destructive danger we have now.
This upcoming election will be won or lost in 4-5 battleground states where political moderation is and has been the norm for many decades. We ignore that reality at our great peril in 2020.
22
@Will.
Yet the demagogue won the Midwest battleground states last Dem. primary; over a self declared moderate.
Bernie a terrible president (disagree)? Sure, could be. So could any of them by huh. But he would be a change in direction which the country terribly needs. It takes a good long way to turn a ship this size. We need to start NOW. Rocks ahead~!
3
@Will.
Nice but having to move to the right and being forced to vote for a republican isn’t political moderation. It literally protects republicans from the consequence of their actions.
The senate is another example. There is no moderation with republicans. A moderate may pass republican policy good for rich donors but they will it be able to pass anything with Mitch.
Joe couldn’t figure it out nor did they care enough to fight when they had eight years. It’s time to fight for liberal policy. Globalization and the consequences on society will not be mitigated by a do nothing moderate approach.
The rich are shooting themselves in the foot. But maybe they prefer a real revolution.
2
@Will. Perfectly stated
2
If anyone thinks Joe Biden works for anyone other than the 1% donor class they are not getting their news from reliable sources.
39
@ma77hew
The NYTimes is pretty good but definitely toes the line when word comes down from Billionaire's Row on 57th st
2
Biden/Abrams is unbeatable by the Republicans and will result in a landslide victory in the House and Senate for Dems. Biden will get things done for the middle class; appoint Warren to the Consumer Financial Protection Agency; Kamala as AG. Huge changes in healthcare will only scare people away. We need a landslide not a loss or a squeaked out victory with no ability to get the ideas Warren and ineffectual Bernie want.
19
@Greg I know many people who would likely forgo voting if Biden is the nominee.
8
@Greg
Biden will appoint Kamala Harris as A.G. when pigs fly.
2
To civiletti,
So they would rather have Trump again and, by extension, a 7-2 right wing packed Supreme Court. Wow, what a great progressive strategy!
19
Joe Biden/Stacy Abrams ticket is a winning strategy. He is not my first choice (Amy Klobuchar/Pete Buttigieg/Oprah?)
but, I definitely think this ticket could win more votes than any of the others.
13
His speech "fumbling" is not new and has long been with him. Other respected Presidents, such as Dwight Eisenhower and George WH Bush had similar speech patterns but it was not a measure of their intellect nor judgment.
10
All we need to beat Trump is a candidate non-Democrats feel comfortable voting for. Biden is one of those and his perceived flaws matter only to Democrats. Conversely, some of the other candidates scare non-Democrats sufficiently to override their dislike of Trump. The election (the real one) is Democrats' to lose.
8
@PJ
Good idea. Pick a republican type. I hear Bloomberg fits that role.
It won’t cost you votes and the liberals will just go along for the ride without a hitch. Makes perfect sense.
3
@PJ
Go with a candidate that non-Democrats feel comfortable voting for and a large part of the Democratic base is not going to turn out for that candidate. This could lead to a progressive 3rd party candidate -the last thing we need.
Lots of folks didn't learn anything from 2016 when the democratic candidate was a corporate favorite, Republican-light moderate. She lost.
4
@fast/furious
If every Democrat doesn't turn out for whoever is the nominee Trump will win. That's the lesson we learned from 2016.
1
Yep. I will vote for Biden if the alternative is Trump. No doubt.
13
"The U.S. isn't ready for a girl."
There you have it - the "blue collar male" voters Biden's courting w/ misogynist comments about Warren & his 'old-timey' positions like encouraging African Americans to play records for their children & opposing marijuana legalization.
20th Century Joe.
Democrats should focus on voters who helped win the 2018 election: women, people of color, young voters, urban & suburban voters.
These aren't the voters Biden's courting w/ his "blue collar white man" campaign -- Trump's base.
Trump's blue collar white men base won't abandon him for Biden.
Turning out voters under 40 won't won't happen w/ a stale old conservative white man who authored the racist 1994 crime bill, ended student loan discharge, opposes legalizing marijuana.
'We're going to win back blue collar white guys from Trump!' Stupid & risky. Convinced of her electability, HRC wondered about winning Texas - & took her eye off the ball in Wisconsin. This'll happen again w/ Biden's obsession w/ winning Trump voters. It's a fools errand & a distraction.
White blue collar men with no college aren't the democratic base anymore. They are firmly for Trump. Chasing after them is pointless.
Democrats are making a fatal mistake pushing Biden, who won't win over Trump voters & won't excite young voters who want a fresh, exciting younger candidate - or women who want someone more in line w/ their issues.
We need a candidate who excites voters under 40.
It's not Biden.
27
@fast/furious blah blah blah; we need a candidate who can win, full stop.
10
@fast/furious but blue collar voters who defected from Obama to Trump are the reason Hillary lost Wisconsin! In their own way Bernie and Biden are authentic, while Warren and Pete Buttigieg come across as overly rehearsed. Authenticity trumps ideology, something Democrats should have learned when Obama won and Hillary lost the same people.
5
@fast/furious
Hmm...one candidate (we don't mention him) is doing well with voters under 40 (beating DT 'n HRC, combined, last primary). He also draws in a fair percentage of crossover voters. Appealing to the blue collar/non college demographic.
https://www.people-press.org/2019/08/16/most-democrats-are-excited-by-several-2020-candidates-not-just-their-top-choice/pp_2019-08-16_2020-democratic-candidates_0-06/
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/09/sanders-vs-warren-who-has-more-working-class-donors/?fbclid=IwAR3h70XCtb0anrGU5KRoUWmhlucbWolPJu3QycBvaA4OntgZrmYlnGM6wNw
1
We are beyond the point of playing it safe. I don't see Joe Biden standing up to the likes of Putin and other Trump buddy types.
If you want to remain safe and comfortable, this is something you ought to consider.
2
Support for Biden is as questionable as the polling methodology used to show him with a lead. Nobody answers their phone anymore, home or cell, if they don't know the caller, except for the generally clueless among us and also more 'feeble' seniors. I am a senior myself, I am not picking on anyone, but this is the truth.
29
@Douglas Hampton .....Exactly - phone surveys are not legitimate.
2
@Douglas Hampton The only polls that should be paid attention to are state polls....Specifically those of the Midwestern states that can turn this election one way or the other.
National polls are useless given the electoral college.
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@Mary Ann Unfortunately, the methodologies used in most State polls are very bad. They typically rely exclusively on landlines. While they weight for age, the effect is only further distortion because very few young people have landlines and those who do are not politically representative of their age group.
1
Yes . . . NAFTA Joe.
Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders just surpassed 4 million donors. His number one donors are teachers and workers at Wal-Mart and low wage workers at Amazon. He has the greatest support among Latinos and young blacks.
Yet, nothing from the mainstream media about that.
85
@Jimmy Herf
Oh, the grievances of the Bernie followers. He is just always given the short stick. Always woe. Never fair. Never right.
Complain, complain. Everybody is out to get dear leader Bernie.
Ho hum, boring.
21
@Will. It's true. Bernie has the biggest rallies and the most donors but he's blacklisted by the so-called liberal media.
19
@Jimmy Herf
The NYT and other mainstream outlets have yet to do any real, deeply researched and reported stories on black Americans' wideranging support for progressive candidates and policies. Obama is loved symbolically, but most blacks know that they did worse economically during the Obama years. But there seems to be no end to the resources devoted to nonstop articles about how popular Joe Biden is, based on polls that surveyed 0.000001% of the population (literally).
7
We could do much much worse than a Joe Biden/Kamala Harris ticket.
3
@LMT
We could also do better.
Harris was the chief Biden basher in the early debates.
7
@LMT Amen! We could have a Warren/Sanders ticket. At least with Biden we'd get centrism, and with Harris we'd get a pretty face and fifty new unworkable ideas a week.
@cl. And Biden was Obama’s antagonist before he became his Veep.
However it shakes out, the ticket must be electable.
“He relates well to blue-collar voters and to non-college voters,” Jeff Link, a veteran Iowa Democratic strategist, said. “Those Scranton roots kind of come through.” I met Joe at a small fundraiser in NYC in 2008 when he ran then. I had the loveliest, warmest conversation with him about the Scranton area where my maternal grandparents hail from. We talked about a particular bakery that used to be there that my grandmother loved. He knew the place well. As much as I liked him even then, my vote in the primaries went to Obama. This time around I was hoping for a more progressive candidate but have become increasingly convinced in the last several weeks that Joe is the right choice to beat Trump for exactly the reasons this column highlights. He is so down to earth and likable. This matters to a huge chunk of the country. Everyone knows who Joe is. He's not a coastal elite. He provides a comforting, steady presence in a horribly divided time.
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@GJR
Likable and down to earth? I think he is beginning to lose his grasp on reality. I am not sure he is the leader we need to pull us through the mess Trump has made and restore order.
If I wanted comfort food, I'd go to a real good diner.
10
@cl
Sorry. But it can easily be argued that many of these theoretical progressive ideas have lost their grasp on reality.
It works both ways.
That said, getting Trump out of the White House is the only "comfort" that matters now.
8
@GJR
I won't vote for someone because they're likable.
I'll vote for the candidate determined to fix healthcare, who'll work to make college affordable & offer help on student loans, who'll legalize marijuana because too many folks have gone to prison under our current laws,
who won't be beholden to banks and credit card companies, who takes treating women with respect as a foregone conclusion instead of insisting he's just an 'old timey' affectionate guy who likes to be 'touchy.'
Biden is obviously not my candidate.
8
I am more than happy to vote for Joe Biden. I held my nose and voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016; but in 2020, I will vote for whoever is the Democratic candidate with alacrity.
I am starting to feel very optimistic that we will take the WH back whoever our nominee is.
Then as they say in corporate speak, when the CEO gets fired, Mr. Trump will be "leaving to pursue other interests", possibly in orange coveralls.
41
Joe Biden is a known figure for most Americans.
He has stood the test of time and has the best name recognition of all the Dem candidates.
It is therefore disturbing to his supporters that he is steadily slipping in the polls.
However, as he points out, he is still number one both nationally and in primary states in most cases.
What is also clear is that his supporters are centrists. They will not support fringe candidates on the far left like Bernie and his surrogate, Warren, who pretends that she is channeling him and then, as last week with healthcare, flip flops when the polls show her spiraling downward.
Pete is the logical person for these people to support when Biden further falls as he will.
Pete has come from no where to first place in Iowa and will further surprise us with his progress to the nomination.
He is the least known of the top tier candidates. The more he gets known, the better he does.
His rise is inevitable.
24
@Simon Sez
Not so sure of that. Especially after it was revealed that his campaign used a stock photo of a NIGERIAN woman in his attempt to reach out to the African-American community about his plans.
He clearly has a lot of work to do.
8
@Simon Sez
"They will not support fringe candidates on the far left like Bernie and his surrogate, Warren."
Huh, the second choice polling says completely different than you. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-supporters-used-to-say-sanders-was-their-second-choice-now-they-say-warren/
Pete...not so much. See polls above.
As for inevitable; meh. His billionaire backers might wish to project such; but kinda a nah.
3
There's no doubt that a centrist Democrat can pull millions of white, blue collar, red state voters from Trump. He's absolutely their kind of guy, more so than Trump.
What's regrettable is that it has to be Biden, an old, creepy, establishment player who has little to offer other than moderation. Thought that may be all that is needed. I don't like the guy, but I sure like him more than Sanders, Warren, or Trump.
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@Ernest Montague
And he will lose how many liberals?
1
The candidate of Trump voters is not a ringing endorsement. Trump voters are gonna vote Trump, even if there is a guy from Scranton running against him.
13
@Adam Absolutely untrue.
A good many Trump voters are in fact the crazies I suspect you're thinking of.
But more of them were the people in this piece -- largely nonideological, but alienated by what they see as the excesses of Democratic party orthodoxy.
I went to an elite college, worked in the media, and actually worked for Secty Clinton's campaign, and even I am put off by Beltway Dems' aloofness from mainstream American life, and their willingness to sacrifice fairness to internal correctness. (Google 'Dear Colleague letter'.)
Busy now. But be sure to reply if you can find one instance of Sen. Warren saying something nice, in general, about making a buck. That's what my Delta grandma and my Teamster dad took real serious. Joe Biden does too.
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@Bob T
The argument is they would vote for Trump over a progressive like a modern FDR candidate? Exactly how does this make them nonideological?
1
@Mathias
A: Because it is not ideology that motivates them to vote for Trump.
It is not policy either -- how could it be, when he cravenly flips back and forth between them and can't even explain the policies he claims to endorse?
Rather it's a cultural affinity. Wacky, yes, but they relate to the cartoon version of a rich guy with a common 'yo fella' touch that he's been cultivating ever since he was a kid on his dad's construction sites.
It's beyond that. Also some simpatico - he's just as unknowing as they are, and just as futile as they feel they are. Go with the bluster when that's all you got. This came out strong in the early Trump as Pepe the Antihero memes.
By contrast Sen Warren comes off as a deep in the Beltway figure, a dour, humorless schoolmarm, regardless of any policy positions.
Thanks for asking! Except for the Klansmen uncles, these are my people. There's up for grabs, but not for policy positions.
4
that is encouraging
especially if he choose the clincher candidate for vp and said he would be only a one term president
as the dem candidates ignore Obama's advice to move to center, it seems as usual the dem field are like wildflowers rather than a planted garden
this may be good, it may not be good, but the one goal we all agree on is that the dem candidate must be able to draw from all pockets of voters, including those that crossed over to vote for Obama in 2008. if even 5% of these voted democrat, trump base is not strong enough, not vile enough, not loud and barbaric enough, not america only enough, and not what is good for trump is good for you enough.
@miriamgreen
I am not voting for his choice of VP.
3
@miriamgreen
Biden has a huge ego and isn't going to be a one term president if elected.
Remember what Obama told Biden about him running this time: "You don't have to do this, Joe." Not a ringing endorsement. And who else knows Biden as well as Barack Obama does?
1
Who would want an average Joe to lead our country?
28
@Stephen DeMeo
Given the present situation, having an "average Joe" in the Oval Office doesn't seem like such a bad idea to many.
10
"Many working-class voters feel a kinship with the former vice president and believe he is the Democrats’ strongest general election prospect."
I did not realize that working-class voters were so forgiving? Or maybe they just have short memories? You do know that Senator Joe Biden did vote Yea on the final passage of NAFTA in 1993?
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/103-1993/s395
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@Mathias
"You moderates"...And this is exactly why Trump may win again.
But you don't get it , do you?
Democrats are moderates, progressives, liberals and independents.
And if they don't find a way to stop the identity-politics among themselves, in the end they'll just be losers.
And we'll get four more years of Trump.
3
@rls
You’re kidding right? He is riding on name recognition with Obama. He will be slaughtered in the general. His record will be destroyed by Fox News with both sides and actually have traction to use.
You moderates were worried about impeachment. You were wrong. It hasn’t hurt democrats to impeach.
You’re also wrong about running an establishment republican lite candidate again?
You moderates really need to form your own party and pound pavement instead of hanging out in the clubs with the wealthy donors.
From the tail end of this article:
___________
Steve Buchmeier, a 54-year-old farmer from Kellogg, Iowa... He was one of the Obama-Trump voters in attendance at Mr. Biden’s campaign stop in Newton.
“The U.S. isn’t ready for a girl,” he said as he reflected on the 2016 election...
____________
That's all you need to know about so-called "Democrats" who voted for Trump in 2016. Still reflexively viewing accomplished, professional women (many of them past middle age) as "girls".
No, we don't need everyone to be "woke" in 2020 to defeat Trump. But we do need voters whose thinking about gender equality (and much else as well) has incrementally evolved along with the times over the last half century.
56
@Dave sadly, they get one vote too, and we need them to win. Obama won with them, and Trump did, and whoever wins in 2020 will do so as well.
7
To Dave,
Actually, yes we do need their votes. Especially those who live in swing states. If we let Trump win again, we’ll be facing a right-wing packed judiciary and 7-2 right wing Supreme Court. And how on earth would that help progressive causes or women’s rights?
14
@Dave You would dismiss an entire voting group based on one quote?
3
I do not care which Democrat gets the nomination as long as they are a moderate. I do not want the Progressive freeloaders anywhere nearby.
9
@DENOTE MORDANT
You wouldn't have anyone nearby if the socialist government didn't take your tax dollars and build roads through your neighborhood that you can use at your convenience, or to get to your job.
All these progressives with their plans to use the collective abundance of the US to provide healthcare to everyone, feed hungry children, fix our crumbling infrastructure and clean the air/water that everyone regardless of political affiliation breathes/drinks.
Who do they think they are looking out for the collective good and not my individual bottom line?
A rising tide carries all boats. The better our country does, the better you do :)
10
@DENOTE MORDANT Yes, we all hate freeloaders. Amazon, Verizon and Walmart comes quickly to mind. And those in agribusiness like Archer Midland with their subsidies during this time of China tariff wars. But those darned disabled kids are the ones who tick me off the most,
13
@DENOTE MORDANT
Prefer a progressive policy than a socialist for the rich who constantly freeload and don’t pay their fair share.
8
It's about time the focus was put on this part of the American electorate which has largely been overlooked because they aren't at rallies or supporters of a more progressive agenda.
That said, it seems like it's finally coming to the fore that the majority of Democrats are not part of the Warren/Sanders idea of what the party should be -- and that's also something they seem to forget.
Biden nails it when he said he didn't like it when people should tell him what he should believe in the adopted style of preaching that Warren and Sanders take on when addressing supporters at their rallies.
There's still a lot of non-college educated folks out there who are wary of the theoretical progressive agenda.
They shouldn't be discounted or forgotten.
If we want to get this president out of the White House, every vote counts.
42
Agreed.
And you don’t have to be a Biden supporter to acknowledge this truth.
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@N. Smith
Biden saying he "didn't like it when people tell him what he should believe" - this is Biden going very low and aligning with Trump on "uneducated" voters are his jam and his disenchantment w/ "elites."
Biden is apparently going to run a 'grumpy old man' campaign borrowing lots of Trump's crowed pleasers like slamming female candidates, telling the uneducated he "gets them" and doubling down on the white blue collar men who are Trump's base.
Biden will lose. He won't get needed progressive votes or young people and Trump will always go lower than Biden to reach the blue collar white man vote.
This is just Biden distracting us from trying to build and turn out a new Democratic coalition.
Chasing after voters who used to be democrats 10, 20, 25, 30 years ago is a fool's mission.
6
@N. Smith
There are two sides to every coin. You can argue that progressives are too far left to win; but you can argue that moderates are not left-enough to win. Trump proved that you can win with an enthusiastic minority of voters. Progressives are a far more-enthusiastic cohort than play-it-safe moderates. If Biden or Buttigieg or Patrick or Bloomberg is the Democratic nominee, prepare to lose, because there is no enthusiasm for any of the moderates.
6