Our host this year had already decided on what to serve when this article came out. But he still went to New Yee Li and got orders of this turkey, which he presented to us guests to take home as "leftovers." That's what I call a supremely considerate host!
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Where is the concern for the abuse imposed upon turkeys?
Humans are so disconnected from the pain and suffering they impose upon other beings. For the health of Earth and all its inhabitants it is time to evolve away from eating animals and animal products.
sorry, but there's a huge difference between roasting a duck or goose Cantonese style and applying the same technique to turkey.
roast duck and goose Cantonese style is brilliant and takes into account the fat to meat ratio, hence the delicious crispy skin and succulent meat.
turkey is inherently lean and IMHO if you apply this cooking technique to turkey then, to my mind, you will get a dry turkey.
I refer a brined turkey, slow-roasted and basted the old fashion way but to each their own.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
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sorry, but there's a huge difference between roasting a duck or goose Cantonese style and applying the same technique to turkey.
roast duck and goose Cantonese style is brilliant and takes into account the fat to meat ratio, hence the delicious crispy skin and succulent meat.
turkey is inherently lean and IMHO if you apply this cooking technique to turkey then, to my mind, you will get a dry turkey.
I refer a brined turkey, slow-roasted and basted the old fashion way but to each their own.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
1
7-8 years ago, I gave myself permission to let go of the tradition of turkey and have made Peking roast duck for Thanksgiving every year since! Growing up Taiwanese, it was also a way to pay homage to my parents and include them in a new mixed tradition. The moistness and flavor are incomparable. Happy to see this mixed approach- I'll stick with duck myself but love the recognition for this Chinese style of cooking.
7
This article is an example of why our melting pot of cultures and flavors makes our country stronger. Thank you for highlighting a different and delicious approach to cooking a turkey.
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Thank you for this wonderful article, it is the quintessential story of America, how we have adapted from our 'old' country to create that which is unique, American.
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I'll take a spatchcocked turkey of any size, dry rub it with salt and herbs in the fridge for a day. Then use a multiblend of herbs and butter under the skin and all over and roast it to a slightly underdone and let it rest for the rest.
Who says dry and tasteless? I'll match my bird against any upside down air dried, limp hanging bird carcass any which way.
Take out bird is for.......the birds.
My family actually had a turkey prepared this way by one of the restaurants in Manhattan's Chinatown (Big Wong) a few years ago. You call a few days ahead and they will prepare the bird this way. It was delicious! Obviously stuffings was not possible.
1
This is a lovely article. But it leaves me wondering: how do Mr Li's Italian neighbors prepare their turkey?
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Thank you NYT for showing my hometown some love and writing about Kau Kau. I had no idea they even did turkeys for the holidays. Great article đź‘Ťđź‘Ť
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This is an interesting article to read, East meets West for Thanksgiving, a time to reflect on our origins and our new life in plentiful America. Even the chickens/turkeys are bigger than others in the world, i.e. everything is bigger in America. As a Chinese immigrant myself, this is our impression when we first arrived in U.S. And so, we experiment with everything, especially in cooking.
My recipe, use turkey weighing less than 10lbs. First brine the inner cavity and skin with salt and garlic and brush with white wine for additional flavor, stuff with a bit of onion, celery, grapes and chopped apple. Next, close the cavity, tie thighs and wings together across the breast and back for support. Then steam the turkey for about 20-30 minutes in a big pot depending on weight of turkey. Remove turkey by lifting it through the tight strings and put in oven @ 350 degrees. check for doneness after an hour. When turkey is close to doneness, brush skin with butter, return turkey to oven and roast at 375 temperature until skin is golden brown. Next, brush turkey with honey to crisp the skin as final step. (Total cooking time will be much shorter with steaming first, and meat will be moist also.) Slow boil gizzard and neck with onion and carrots to make gravy.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
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@Agnes This!
Why did we Americans go through the torture of trying to make juicy turkey when we could have a naturally juicy and flavorful duck or chicken?
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Once you read about how badly chickens, turkeys and other animals are treated in the factory farm system it’s hard to rationalize eating these poor creatures. I wish the New York Times and other publications would mention how poorly these animals are treated every time they publish an article about animals as products - e.g., whether one should eat chickens or turkeys.
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@Esme Keane
Humans eat animals. Get over it.
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@Esme Keane That would not be possible because the topics are incongruous. Highlighting this issue in a different article makes sense. No one should be told what to eat however. To each his own.
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This is a great idea! I hope it gives these restaurants an excellent cash boost. Incredible that going all out this one restaurant can only produce 80 roasted birds in 3 days. The process sounds quite time consuming.
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It's traditional with Peking Duck (anachronism I know but Beijing Duck sounds like a variation of Cold Duck) to eat the skin (now it's skin and meat) in the first round and in the second round have soup made from the bones and everything not served in the first course.
It's as easy as duck soup.
For Christmas, try Chinese Hot Pot -- a cauldron of cooking broth at the table with everyone dipping sliced lamb, seafood, Chinese veggies, etc. served with a variety of sauces, with a very rich and flavorful broth consumed at the end.
PS. Chinese roast duck and Peking Duck aren't the same. The process described in the article is for Peking Duck.
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@Yuri Asian Bay Area
"... Peking Duck (anachronism I know ..." -- The French press still uses PĂ©kin for the capital of the Middle Kingdom, and "damne the Maoist censors".
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@Tuvw Xyz
Maybe the French use a different transliteration of Mandarin than either the British Wade-Giles or the Princeton Chinese system. Wade-Giles -- Peking (or Peiping) -- is easier than Princeton, which has a more accurate but unfamiliar juxtapositioning of English characters -- thus Beijing, for example, is more phonetically accurate than Peking. "Ch" in Wade-Giles is "J" in Princeton..."Sh" in Wade-Giles becomes "X" under Princeton.
Thanks for noting how the French approach Mandarin...I hadn't given much thought to how other languages treat Mandarin. Maybe after Brexit the French will adopt Princeton (!).
Appreciate your reply and noting my post.
@Yuri Asian what a fabulous idea!! I love hotpot.
Here is a bird, supposed to be raised running around but instead was fed and caged in a farm, is not meant to be roasted and served on a table in a festival of "thanks and giving".
Not a happy time for turkey...
How about light a candle on Thanksgiving Day, pray for another year without human suffering, spare the turkey, and have a vegi dinner...
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I respect anyones choice to not eat meat but don’t try to make me feel bad for eating it (I’ll never feel bad for eating meat ever anyway). And How do you know that plants don’t have feelings? Maybe they do subconsciously. Maybe veggies feel sadness too when they’re being cut or plucked from the ground? Just sayin..! 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
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@Jack Au Seattle
Plants' feelings? This is going deep into the philosophy of the Jains. Even if one could eat only mineral matter, nothing organic, how would one know whether the chemical compounds and elements feel no pain when they are ground by the teeth, swallowed, and digested?
@paul For you it was not meant to be roasted. For others, maybe not. Let’s remember we still have freedom of choice in the US.
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Could the Times promote a Thanksgiving tradition that skips the Salmonella and antibiotic hazard that is the mass-produced turkey?
There's so much great food by way of stews and roasts (some even vegetarian, egads!) that it seems time we get past this weird preoccupation. I mean, there's no Christmas dinner animal.
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@PtTaken There is at MY house!
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@PtTaken Just a note, Christmas hams are very common!
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@PtTaken
Xmas = standing rib roast
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Love this piece. However, I don't know where the writer got the idea that "American-style" turkey is dry brined, because that's not true.
Liquid brining is a well-established practice throughout the United States. But it's a pure pleasure to read about this addition to the American Thanksgiving food canon.
I'm going to have to try this!
5
Traditional or not, I’d recommend the dry bone over liquid any day to anyone reading this. Much better results.
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Great write up and images on the Chinese take on American turkey. My Chinese-Canadian Dad cooks his turkey very well and the whole roasted bird is a beautiful sight. We usually fight over the gravy and discourage each other from taking more than their fair share!
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I live in Guangdong province and will definitely be having roast duck for Thanksgiving. It's one of my favorite things here.
I wouldn't mind trying that turkey, though. I always thought that if the Chinese gave it a try, they might enjoy turkey a lot.
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The author had to go to Seattle Chinatown? Was Manhattan Chinatown or Downtown Flushing Chinatown not good enough? Seriously? And does the NYT wonder why its credibility is becoming an issue, even among staunch dem readers?
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@bored critic He actually spoke to people in Seattle, San Francisco and Manhattan. You skimmed through :)
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@Cy
He was bored.
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I'm waiting for instrux on how to make Chinese-style turducken (turkey-duck-chicken.) Jon Madden, meet Martin Yan.
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I will choose roast duck any day over turkey. I made it an habit to have roast duck in NYC Chinatown and also in San Francisco when I lived there for a while. The turkey is nice but at times very dry. The Chinese are the boss when it comes to roast duck.
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The described technique seems to run afoul of every food safety tip I've ever read about cooking turkeys, particular the "don't stuff a turkey until right before you pop it in the oven. so a few questions for the author:
1) Is the onion/garlic/ginger "internal brine" sauteed/cooked before being put in the bird?
2) Is the internal brine put in the main cavity or only the neck cavity?
3) Is the bird hung in a refrigerator? If so, is the internal brine cooled before putting it in the bird?
1
While there are many things right with it, on the long list of what is wrong with US cuisine, turkey -- and the Thanksgiving meal -- are on top of it.
@Turkey is not food
Maybe it's because you can't cook. Turkey is not that hard to keep moist - if you know what you're doing.
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@Turkey is not food your opinion is noted, welcome, and appreciated, but I disagree with your opinion.
Talk about an eclectic cuisine, only in America.
If this takes off with the Chinese diaspora globally, and Sino-Americans are classic foodists, American bird farms would be exporting their turkeys globally.
4
Turkeys and the people that make them bring tears to roll down my homesick cheeks once again. Thank you again NYTimes and thank you for the Cooking articles and recipes these past few weeks. Experimented with potatoes and rice dishes for the upcoming Holiday and will add that five spice powder to my cranberry sauce. Next is cookie baking for a swap.
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I am issuing here a call to all co-readers of Food Section, to abandon turkeys, ducks, geese, chicken, and similar birds for Thanksgiving. In the 17th century, the first settlers from Europe or their early desecendants were likely to be exposed to the Atlantic or Maine lobster and scallops.
Elevate lobster and scallops to Thanksgiving food! This should also mollify a part of the whining crowd of vegans, if they thought
about the diet of the original vegetarians of the Middle Ages, the Manicheans and Cathars, who ate fish and seafood.
Happy Thanksgiving!
3
@Tuvw Xyz - or in California: dungeness crab, which is in season, as opposed to turkey, which is in the freezer.
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@Tuvw Xyz
All I can do is roll my eyes.
3
The writer Calvin Trillin advocated for spaghetti carbonara for Thanksgiving, both on the grounds of taste and his claim that the Native Americans’ ancestors learned how to make it from “that big Italian fellow” who showed up long before the pilgrims.
1
This is also very common at Chinese “chifa” restaurants in Lima and other cities in Peru at Christmas, which draw long lines waiting to pick up very yummy roast turkeys. I recommend La Union in Barranco for the same.
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It's always interesting to see how different cultures absorb and adjust to different ingredients and eating traditions of other cultures. It's one of the more positive consequences of globalization.
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@ BP Alameda, CA
Agree with you and think this is also a proof that liking or disliking of some foods is not a genetically heritable, but an acquired characteristic.
5
In Chicago, around the corner from Sun Wah is Hon Kee Restaurant which also has an excellent BBQ. If dinner as well as BBQ is what you want, go to Hon Kee, because unfortunately, food other than BBQ is an after thought at Sun Wah.
4
Like the Peiking duck recipe... which requires scalding... then soaking in sherry... for flavor. One could use a fruit filling-- apples onions, maybe celery with the various spice combos would work -- coriander is a nice addition to nutmeg and cinnamon, I would add walnuts and probably bread crumbs. The skin crisps because of the drying-- 12-plus hours... I would prob. be sure to put spice combos under the skin. I prefer unbrined turkey -- always start cooking with the breast face down -- so the juices from the stuffing fun into it. and flip it after a couple of hours.. Turkey is a dry bird.. some people use bacon.. probably duck fat (from the leg of duck you gently braised for dinner a couple of weeks ago) or unsalted butter. (One can always add salt.)
It is really sad that so many people believe the hogwash about brining - just makes the whole thing too salty... BTW an economical cook would bone the whole thing.. and use the bones in the stock pot-- so much better than the left over carcass for making soup. Why not a turkey Ballantine?.. it would cook more quickly... and you could do whatever with the stuffing.
So many possibilities.. and remember if it's cold or not quite cooked-- that's what the microwave is for.
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@Auntie Mame
You do know that you're supposed to *rinse* the bird after it's been brined, right? Also, if you have to fat (bacon, butter or the nasty duck fat) to keep your bird moist, you don't know how to cook.
Deep Fried Turkey for this second-generation Chinese American. After being Defrosted. 0.5 hour Prep-time. 45min to 1hr 15min Frying Time. Buying a prepared Turkey is the only thing easier than Frying your own. TS [Time Stamp]=18NOV19.
I have already done One DFTurkey . Will do 2 or 3 more during the Holiday Season. Happy Holidays
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Anywhere in Flushing area do Turkeys this way?
2
Ask your local Chinese BBQ, or look them up on google maps and call!
Did I miss the link to a recipe?
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@JF You have to pay extra if you want recipe links or buy the Weds. paper . It's a basic Peiking duck recipe... with a wet filling. which one could make with apple, onion, celery, spices... possibly bread crumbs and walnuts... if desired.. and if you want to eat the filling.. Otherwise, an apple or twol celery, one onion.. I would cut these into quarters .. there are many ways to skin the cat. I mean cook the turkey.. but brining IMO is a waste of time and adds ways too much salt. I like the taste of turkey just some salt and butter under the skin.. altho parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme (Simon and Garunk ) makes ale wonderful combo esp. if you frequently base (butter base0 for either roast chicken or turkey... and I would add some tarragon. Heaven.
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@JF
Do yourself a favor and ignore Auntie Mame. Brine the turkey and bon apetit. :)
All I have to say is yum!
6
It is important to note that this is Catonese-style roasting not Beijing-style.
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@Grace That's right! Thank you for pointing this out. It's a critical distinction.
8
MMmmmm
Always looking for new turkey ideas!
3
I want one
8
Kosher turkeys are already brined, which may be why mine are generally not dry. But this year,after reading this article and the comments, I'm trying the 5-spice powder on the skin. I don't think anyone loves turkey; maybe this will change their minds.
I loved this article, about Americans-in-the-making and new American traditions, also in the making. We cannot be allowed to forget that our immigrants make us great. Every new generation allows us to re-imagine what America can be.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, and may we all have much to be thankful for.
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@Ellen Tabor although I just started wondering, since I will be making regular turkey, if I put 5-spice powder on the skin, what will that do to my gravy? No gravy is not an option.
2
@Ellen Tabor pretty sure it will just be delicious. Can always balance out the 5 spice with the rest of the gravy ingredients.
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@ Ellen Tabor New York City
Kosher or, more correctly, kasher turkey?
To satisfy the adherents of the militanr religion of Veganism, are there vegetarian turkeys?
1
Well, if I had to eat turkey (not a fan) this is the prep I'd try. Our tradition dictates a fine Peking Duck on the Thanksgiving table.
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@Jay Amberg I'm doing capon for Thanksgiving and Peking duck for Christmas. Looking forward to both. I'll think of you on Thanksgiving.
4
Somehow the use of the word "moist" to describe the meat disturbed me. Wouldn't "juicy" be more appetizing?
6
I hate eating turkey on Thanksgiving or any other time. This article is inspiring in offering an alternative to the old dull boring Thanksgiving turkey.
Let's hope it catches on. I certainly plan to try it this Thanksgiving.
Maybe everyone will really enjoy the meal instead of just tolerating the food.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
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@ RomeoT new york, new york
"I hate eating turkey on Thanksgiving or any other time".
So do I, as long as turkey tastes like turkey. The characteristic turkey taste can be driven by very thorough baking, but my alternative is a pheasant. It has to be farm raised, as in this area no shot wild pheasants are commercially available.
I want one in Northern Virginia! Gaithersburg is too far to schlep.
4
I lived in Kaohsiung, Taiwan in the late 1970s and still remember an unusual Thanksgiving dinner there. I was teaching ESL and some of my American friends taught at the YMCA. Turkeys were almost unobtainable at that time, but somehow the Y managed to find a turkey for us. The next challenge was how to cook it - most homes did not have ovens. Somehow, the Y managed to find a bakery to roast the turkey for us. It was delivered to our dinner table - roasted Chinese style with the head and feet attached. No stuffing of course, but someone found a new product called Stove Top stuffing mix in a store that sold food items that were leftover after container ships finished their voyage. Not exactly like the traditional Thanksgivings back home, but we gathered together and were thankful all the same.
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@Betsy J What a lovely story, thank you for sharing.
2
Back in the early Seventies when I was in LA, I would get invited to my best friend's house for Thanksgiving. Instead of cooking their own turkey, they pick one up from Chinatown. They also serve sushi for Hanukkah/ Xmas party.
7
I grew up in an east coast Chinatown and this practice was quite common. Many immigrant families did not know how to cook a turkey "American-style" nor did many homes have ovens big enough for a big bird, so the restaurants stepped in. In my memory, these were best tasting turkeys ever! This article also brings back wonderful memories of family members long gone.
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What a wonderful story about it all coming together. Fantastic photos, fine storytelling ... As Yakov Smirnoff used to say, "What a country!"
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@East Side Toad My thoughts exactly - what a great read this was.
9
My stomach growled while reading this. Growing up a first generation boomer my mom always made roast turkey with all of the trimmings every Thanksgiving. Mashed potatoes with gravy, stuffing, and the sweet potatoes the only dish with a Chinese flair, sweetened with brown sugar bars instead of marshmallows. She never put out cranberries though, even canned.
10
I've read the article twice, and after hearing about the interior brining, scalding the bird, washing with vinegar before hanging to dry and season from the interior, the next step is seemingly absent.
How is the bird coated to give that wonderful skin? We hear they are roasted in ovens, but what prep? What time? Is there any additional attention while roasting?
The tale seems to end before the good and important discussion starts.
24
Hanging it to dry for 12 hours is how. Per Samin Nosrat’s coworkers accidentally discovery, I leave my chicken in the fridge overnight with no cover on it to dry the skin out. Comes out perfectly brown and crispy with no other changes to the cooking method. I assume the scalding and vinegar dousing describes also helps.
22
@Nathan
I do the same after salting the skin which gets wiped off with a kitchen towel before prep for roasting.
4
@reid
There are different spice mixtures that you can buy in Asian grocery stores for poultry and duck that you can use. I use either the Hoisin or barbecue sauce with Garlic and Ginger to season overnight, and I stuff it with sweetrice/chestnuet/dry pork sausage mixture (already cooked) into the cavity after the Turkey is 75-80% cook)
As for the skin, you can always get the desired color and krispy skin by brushing the skin with a soy sauce/ honey/oil mixture couple of minutes before you take it out from the oven.
6
Just buy the roast ducks; more flavor, less hassle.
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@kj I always got roast ducks at Sam Woo BBQ in the San Gabriel Valley in California. Moved away many years ago. Went back to visit recently, and had to wait in line out the door to get 2 ducks. I couldn't wait to get to my son's house and eat the duck I'd missed so much. Wish we had a place like that in Ithaca!
9
@kj For some of us duck is a problem. The few times I have had it I really like the taste but my body has told me this foodstuff is on the reject list. Turkey may be too lean for some but the more flavorful duck - it's the fattiness that never sits well with me.
3
@kj Right?! Duck > Turkey.
3
Thank you for this article. Looking at Kau Kau's Web Site, I was pleasantly impressed by their prices and the use of Chinese traditional ideograms in the bilingual text.
19