What Kramer vs. Kramer did so wonderfully is explore how complicated our lives are. It's never as simple as the male/female explanation put forward today. By the end of the film, you see each as individuals trying to make their way in a messy world while desperately needing each other.
23
@Carl
I like how he seizes and forcibly kisses the first random girl he sees just seconds after getting a desperately needed job. Today, that would result not only in the shortest career in history, but the SWAT team descending on the assailant and sending him his first step toward life imprisonment or deportation. Times have indeed changed!
8
One leeeetle weakness in the whole argument that "'Kramer vs. Kramer' is a better movie about men, women and marriage than 'Marriage Story'" is something fundamental the author neglects about 'K v. K.'
Meryl Streep's mom is presented as the villain, more or less. Once she speaks her piece and leaves, the movie is pretty much all about the struggle Dustin Hoffman's character makes to become a sensitive dad - by learning all that it (traditionally) has taken to be a mom.
Fine, great. But we don't really see what Streep's character is going through during the same period. We don't see the journey she made to decide to leave, and after she leaves, we don't really see her again at all -- until the court scene, in which she's ripped apart on the stand as an unfit mom and a woman who failed at the 'most important' relationship in her life, her marriage.
I remember seeing 'K v. K' when it was first released and hearing audience members grumble and hiss when Streep re-appears. I'd actually been completely engrossed in the film until that moment when my reaction pivoted: Oh. So we're not allowed to see HER struggle, her journey?
131
@Jerome I agree and I was left wondering if Mr Searles saw the same KvK that I saw, years ago. Hoffman's character makes a huge amount of self-reflective progress and is shown sympathetically - Streep's comes across as slightly selfish.
22
@Jerome
Yeah, it really is Kramer vs Himself.
Mrs Kramer is just a straw-woman villain. But when you are divorcing a narcissist, you will discover, they abuse with one hand and play the victim with the other.
She should have taken her child with her. Not left him with his neglectful father.
14
Haven’t seem the new film, but I thought Baumberg’s film The Squid and the Whale was brilliant in looking at divorce from the viewpoint of the children. Most films focus on the adult drama unfolding and neglect the anger, anxiety and loneliness children may experience when parents divorce. The Squid and the Whale was a notable exception. There is a body of evidence that children from divorced families do not do as well psychologically as children from “intact“ families. I find the effect of parental separation on children is rarely discussed by the media or shown in movies in a serious way, probably because writers and directors have difficulty looking at the world from a child’s perspective. Since the Kramer era, education to judges, lawyers and mediators has improved, so they should be aware of best practices to limit harm to children.
21
Excellent essay. And in the end, he finally takes the job in L.A. that maybe would have saved his marriage. But the look on her face is more than "oh, you're back." He's back encroaching on her territory. Very, very subtle but real. My message to my 22-year-old daughter (one of twins) watching with me at the IFC this weekend, that my mother used to say: It takes two. Don't lose yourself. And to her possible future partner? Do your share. My documentary, WHAT'S YOUR POINT, HONEY?, summarizes this perfectly when a 30-year+ tenured Berkeley professor, Dr. Ruth Rosen, says that after time and time again of young women approaching her with the same concern of how they were going to juggle it all (i.e. job, kids, spouse, life). -- not once did a young man ask this. That says it all. It was so poignant -- at least to me -- and rejected by the 20-somethings who didn't want to ever call themselves feminists. A lot changes and nothing changes. Onward with the fight! ;)
96
@Amy Sewell Yes, and the men don’t even take parental leave when offered! https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/11/upshot/paid-family-leave-research-surprise.html?action=click&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=Article®ion=Footer&contentCollection=The%20Upshot
6
The Dustin Hoffman article described in The Vanity Fair article is a disturbing person who probably got a pass because he was a man. Slapping a fellow worker would get you fired in most workplaces and is definitely assault. Ms Streep is an admirable woman and a true artist, not a manipulative and emoting jerk.
6
I don't know if I am saying something controversial here- I have observed marriages where the husband is completely devoted to his wife work out the best. I really think when two good people are married it is really should not difficult for a good man to be devoted! And all the men who want to achieve marital bliss always remember "To keep your marriage brimming, With love in the loving cup, Whenever you're wrong, admit it; Whenever you're right, shut up." Ogden Nash
2
Right now on TCM on demand, Tootsie is showing.
I never realized till now that it could almost be considered a remake of Kramer vs. Kramer, Hoffman reprising the same role of a man stepping into a woman's shoes to learn what it's like to be that gender, and have a perspective on men from the woman's side.
Interesting how Hoffman made a career-within-a-career at this.
4
Marriages in which at least one person practices some true selflessness are likely to work. Marriages between two selfish people who negotiate with each other are much less likely to be sustainable over the long haul.
29
Spot on Ms. Searles, it's heartening to have an insightful POV for tropes in action; wonder how many male critics would have noticed. Probably few. And I bet the men are steaming are your review! Yup, in the first two NYT Picks one guy is challenging one of your assertions and the next is simply dismissing you. @Simon, see, one can argue that not much has changed. And @Don, she isn't characterizing the wife in Squid and the Whale, she's saying the director had a hard time humanizing her. At least listen, then if you must, take exception to something she actually said.
4
The elephant in the room that no one wants to admit is the gene pool.
We are built differently, and as such, operate inside what our DNA has programmed us for, for the most part.
Sure, fathering has improved; women are out in the workforce now more than before, and for those who (are lucky enough or wealthy enough to) have nannies, 99% of them are (drum roll) women.
It is just in the constitution (fight me all you want) of an XX chromosome arrangement, and that, my dears, is how it's always going to be.
1
I had a great dad; even though mom was a housewife, dad was highly engaged. My husband is a great dad to our only child -- we were true co-parents since we both had careers. DNA doesn't solve every riddle.
6
It does give pause how this trend—women seeking a life outside the confines of a heteronormative union as morally insidious—seems to crop up everywhere, even in proto-feminist literature. Kate Chopin’s The Awakening has a similar scenario, and that work is considered an early case of something like feminist thought in English language art.
I digress. Thanks for your work, Jourdain!
2
I saw "Marriage Story" last week and I was more immediately inclined to compare it to one of the great Woody Allen relationship films (minus the perviness and sexism, or at least the obvious May-December kind of sexism): flawed, neurotic characters struggling to get along or survive, dealing with all the messiness and imperfections of life, all beautifully acted and far more perfectly pointed and stylish than real life could possibly be. But I did leave with a certain uneasiness about how (sorry) unlikable the two female leads are compared to Driver's character. Yet my ultimate takeaway was that this is a personal film for Baumbach, and he couldn't help but sympathize more with the male lead. He gives great lines to both Dern and Johanssen, but it's clear his real sympathies are with Driver, who literally opens his veins to try and keep his child. Nevertheless, I don't see that he necessarily has a responsibility to represent both sides equally, or with equal sympathy: this is a film, not a court case. Would we expect Tolstoy to be as sympathetic to Anna Karenina's husband as to her? Or criticize Shakespeare for not allowing Desdemona to defend herself successfully against Iago's charges? All art comes from a point of view, and this ultimately feels like a flimsy reason to criticize Baumbach's movie.
7
To say that little has changed for women is not true. There's too much whining. Men have stepped up enormously. You see so many men shopping now, doing childcare, cooking, etc.
There has been progress. If you're looking for a perfect world, you'll forever be disappointed.
32
What does this have to do with progressiveness? Here are some words from the famed musicians, the Perlmans, to some Princeton seniors.
https://www.princeton.edu/news/2016/02/11/string-theory-violinists-itzhak-and-toby-perlman-give-lecture-seniors
'he (Itzhak Perlman) said in a serious tone: “In your future, your spouse is the most important part of your life —” and Toby Perlman finished ” — so it’s important to pick the right one.”'
First you have to recognize that your spouse is the most important part of your life and, then, in order to pick the right one you will have to know thyself and know what you want in life.
6
Based on the comments, maybe people should never marry or have children. How depressing.
4
I've had the displeasure of seeing two Baumbach films recently, thanks to my wife's Netflix choices. Never I have I seen such a parade of whiny, underdeveloped male characters on display. Just watching these pathetic man-boys lumber through their many inadequacies killed the whole viewing experience for me. Blech.
Sounds like this movie is no different. Too bad. I think I'll pass.
10
I take exception to your characterization of the wife in Squid and Whale. It has long been suggested that this film reflected the director's childhood. As for the wife, after being discovered by her younger son cavorting in their home with her 20-something boyfriend, she leaves with him for a weekend of debauchery. She locks her child in the house telling him to be good and, as soon as the door closes he raids the liquor cabinet from which he pours a glass of whisky. The husband is an aging lecher who has suppressed his wife's talent. Ultimately, neither parent deserves much sympathy, having turned their children into victims of their self-absorbed lives.
13
I am sorry - did I miss the part of the review which talks about the responsibility of parents to the children they bring into this world, and the subordination of their own gratification.
8
Their career choices as of Day One required them to be on opposite coasts.
Why does that make it his fault?
2
I've been a divorce lawyer for 33 years and can attest that evaluators (Judges, Guardians ad Litem, etc.) STILL give men huge amounts of credit when they do what is objectively 25-35% of the parenting/household work. We continue to be uber-impressed by a dad who takes his kid to the park, grocery shops and goes to parent night at the school. And we also continue to judge harshly women who fail at any small parenting requirement. I'm not omitting myself from this bias. I think it is deeply rooted and based on comparisons to what OUR dads did or didn't do. "Compared to my father, my husband . . . ." What a terribly low standard.
My favorite part of KvK, and that of most women I think, is just watching a dad find out ALL the many things mom did and did well while he took it all for granted.
Yes, things are changing. But at glacial rates. And that is frustrating as hell for women.
26
@mbhebert
I think that you are very generous with the 25%-35%. I've seen fathers do absolutely nothing and also avoid paying child support by insisting on custody. The divorce-industrial complex is just another paternalistic institution, which keeps women in their place by threatening to take their children if they speak up against the hypocrisy.
5
I am for women's rights, the #MeToo movement, and the ability to divorce easily (one of the best things that has happened for women in the last 100 years).
However, I find the rationale of wives in movies proclaiming "My life is miserable because I let my husband steamroll me into moving to another city/having kids too early/not listening to me enough" largely ANTI-women. Did the character of Nicole not have a voice to say "No" when Charlie asked her to marry him and move to New York? I often wonder if situations like this are actually run-of-the-mill mid-life crisis disguised as a fight for women's liberation against the patriarchy.
A similar story-line recently played out on This Is Us between Beth and Randall. You felt sympathy for Beth's regret at not pursuing dance, but Randall rightly pointed out she had a choice in the matter and didn't speak up, and rightly pointed out she was revising their marriage to fit within her own mid-life regrets, unduly laying the blame on him.
8
Reality check, please. When I was a teen-age boy I learned that women - especially pretty ones - were the ones who accepted a man's plea for marriage; men were the petitioners, supplicants. On the other hand, a good-looking man could marry an older, rich widow, but would be labelled a gigolo or a fortune hunter.
NOTHING HAS CHANGED!
Dustin Hoffman, the person, was, as a young man, a short, not very handsome man, and in the film he was married to the beauteous, statuesque-by-comparison Meryl Streep. In the current movie, Scarlett Johansson is the beauty who has been appearing in movies since she was 12 or so, and Adam Driver is the guy who enlisted in the USMC and worked the usual aspiring actor gigs until he played a variety of villains, priests, etc. and he ain't no Robert Redford in the looks department.
So, until biology is no longer destiny, marriage will be what it was then and is now, a tilted playing field.
7
I think Ms. Searles has misinterpreted Marriage Story, which I recently viewed. I felt - which seems to be the opinion of many reviewers - that both Scarlett Johansson and Adam Driver's characters were depicted as both sympathetic and problematic, in other words as human beings. I also did not find Laura Dern's attorney character to be a villain, and again I think most people who have seen the movie relished her combative nature, even if she went a bit too far in her zeal to win, just as Ray Liotta did on the husband's side. It seems to me that Ms. Searles may be taking her own biases and expectations of "homo normative" and patriarchal intentions and transposing that onto this film and its director and actors. Searles I think is also (again possibly stemming from her own predetermined world view and biases) making a lot of assumptions about the marriage and Johansson that are not supported by the film - for instance that Johansson had spent 10 years of the marriage desperately trying to return to LA and communicating this to Driver - that may be the case, but an equally valid and opposing interpretation based on what we actually see in the film is that Johansson did not have those feelings (or understood them) until much later. Also, a dominant spouse in terms of personality, in my experience, can as often be the woman or the man, so I don't see this as an open and shut gendered issue.
3
Haven't seen MARRIAGE STORY, but is this a fair reading of THE SQUID AND THE WHALE? I agree the mother wasn't depicted as an entirely sympathetic person in that movie, but the father was downright awful.
9
We're supposed to identify with an actress and director?
Just once I'd like to see something like this with a plumber and teacher, carpenter and food server....
28
The fact that the husband doesn't show any emotional growth is not surprising at all. sad to say, I've seen it play out that way many times.
8
My father left my mother shortly after I was born, the fifth of five children, before coming back a year or so later. He worked on and off, not because he would be laid off but because he would quit when he felt disrespected. Then he would go months before finding another job. My mother had to work full-time at low pay to help the family make ends meet, while also doing the cooking and house cleaning. By the time I was 12 years she went back to college part-time, eventually got her degree that finally landed her a well paying job when she reached 50 years. She did not choose divorce. It was not until the last child reached adulthood that my parents finally separated, and it was good for her. With this life experience I can't help but view the female characters in both movies as selfish, refusing to make the sacrifices that are necessary in raising children.
9
@johnlo
It is not selfish to expect to be respected and seen by your spouse. See how long your sanity would survive if you lived in that kind of world.
8
If I'm honest, I'm bad to not let my husband help and to hold it against him just a little. Simply put: I'm faster, better and prioritize what needs to be done more efficiently. I can't honestly answer how I plan for my husband to learn to do things the way they need to be done without letting him fail and learn and try again. Who has time though?
6
Kramer v. Kramer would not work today, because it would not be acceptable to imagine a man who makes a journey of compassion and self discovery. Men are simply not capable, or so we are told. Through a certain lens, then, Kramer would be considered regressive, not progressive.
5
When you are married to a narcissist, or person with a different undiagnosed personality disorder--and face it MOST of them ARE undiagnosed because your average therapist outside a hospital is not qualified to diagnose personality disorders--life and parenting is a horror. Divorce is even worse. You get diagnosed with a number of things, but your spouse, who likely will not even go to therapy, does not. You're "the crazy one." You might even lose custody of your children in the ensuing divorce.
Narcissists love to use children as weapons. There's no recognition that a child is not an object to be used to hurt you. Anything that can be used to hurt the other spouse is fair game. That it is destructive to the child? The narcissistic parents don't care. There is an estimate that 80% of family court time is tied up by families where one or both of the parents have personality disorders.
The psychiatric industry says there is an explosion of narcissism in society. It's not just Donald Trump.
15
@Dejah
Going through it now. Totally agree. It's nuts and it will never end. Divorce helps, but he still wants to hurt and hurt and hurt.
5
Given the minuscle percentage of would be actors and directors who ever make a living at their "craft" this movie is about as realistic as Star Wars.
15
"heteronormative"? What is that? I am a native speaker, and have never heard that word.
11
You'll forgive me, I hope, for bringing up other films on the "battle of the spouses": "Heartburn" (also Merryl Streep of course, written/directed by Norah Ephron, based on her marriage to Bob Woodward), "Two for the Road," (Audrey Hepburn & Albert Finney, directed by Mike Nichols), and for that matter, another Nichols classic: Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf.
What all these films have in common is that marriage & relationships have many, many layers involving attraction, conflict, personal needs, and negotiation of all these needs, each partner veering between team focus and best-terms-for-self focus.
What is clear is that no relationship is truly symmetrical and 100% reciprocal. Because each has different needs, strengths, and desires, there will be imbalances in the negotiation.
At bottom, the biological basis of the "transaction" is the man's sexual needs and wants, and the woman's procreative needs and wants. Because her parenting investment as a matter of biology is bigger, and he is naturally free-er to play in the world, biologically he will focus more on bread-winning. She provides sex, he provides materially. That's the basic biology borne out in most cultures.
I agree morality (equality) should trump biology, but start with acknowledging the biological forces impelling each party. Then you can morally mold the relationship toward symmetry & true reciprocity, though often unsuccessfully.
Complicating things: women often do use sex to "ensnare," it's biology.
14
@Anon...
I haven't seen the movie, but from the available stills and clips, I'm very curious how someone so "aesthetic" at the Scarlett Johansson end could not intervene about his weird hair? Wouldn't she in real life tell him it's an embarrassment?
I don't normally think about such shallow, trivial things, but there are basically two rules of men's hair: go for attractive and/or simply neat, and more often than not the two converge when you optimize either.
The Driver character's hair looks like he's going for some effect, but whatever that may be, it just looks like a bad girl-haircut.
Obviously, some men can do long hair (particularly artist types may go for it), but if it combines zero aesthetics with appearing over-attended to, the effect is merely ridiculous. All you can think seeing it is, "needs a haircut."
Would she not have told him this in real life: "Need a haircut!"?
5
@Anon... I agree with everything but the spelling....*Meryl* Streep, *Nora* Ephron, *Carl Bernstein*, not Woodward. And Virginia *Woolf.*
2
@Anon... 'Heartburn", written/directed by Norah Ephron, based on her marriage to Carl Bernstein, NOT Bob Woodward; "Two for the Road," (Audrey Hepburn & Albert Finney) directed by Stanley Donen, NOT Mike Nichols),
3
As a mother that wants it all, this column and film reviewed makes me sad. I am really trying with my daughters. I hope they learn and negotiate with a world that send them so many conflicts messages.
5
So, do you have a husband? If so, what's his POV?
The main issue apparently still isn't being addressed, 40 years on.
Men and women both are caught in a web of "haftas' that is generated and regenerated by a system that prioritizes productivity over the life of the producer.
Men are favored, if you think "favored" means being understood by default as a doer-not-a-feeler, as primarily a functional provider-thing. Women are increasingly burdened by the same expectation.
Dreams and ambitions are essential, but even those that are artistic or purely creative are still subject to the realities of increased competition and an ethos that demands full devotion or nothing from all comers.
To what extent this is the result of global pancapitalism versus being self-imposed is a question rarely explored in the rush to frame this as an issue of gender role inflexibility.
A society that recognized that children are an end and not a means, essential and not incidental, would structure itself more appropriately around that reality, and work would not be understood in zero-sum competition with family life. The pressure on mean to be providers for their children - emotionally, experientially and by contribution of time and energy - would then be more wholly felt because it would be more coherent.
4
That we are still debating this issue between mothers and fathers shows how little has changed since Kramer v Kramer hit the nail on the head in identifying the problem. Men do much less of the physical and emotional labor of childrearing and homemaking even when both father and mother have demanding work schedules. Fathers feel put upon if asked to do more and get on the defensive. Mothers are almost always the default caregiver. For this to change we need to remove the structural barriers that caregivers encounter when trying to work while parenting, regardless of gender. Public policy currently favors primary breadwinners but not primary caregivers. Women who are doing primary caregiving and primary breadwinning will burn out (many are trying to do both, sadly). Women who forego their own aspirations in the work world in favor of caregiving eventually become resentful. Either way, it leads to divorce and harms children and mothers more than the fathers. It is pretty obvious, but men seem to be in denial since the current system favors them.
72
@MCC - Maybe you should meet some new men. In my neighborhood in Manhattan, I see countless fathers taking their kids to activities, grocery shopping, attending events at school, cleaning the house, etc.
I know a number of families (including my own) where the husband arguably does more for the family than the wife. The wife frequently prioritizes doing things "for" the children while the husband prioritizes doing things "with" the children and being their for them emotionally, which I would argue is the most important role of a parent. The wife is fixated on buying the perfect set of sheets for the child's bed while all the child wants is love and attention, which the father provides.
In many NYC families with two working parents and a nanny, the nanny usually prefers to interact with the father, as they are often the one with the child's best interest at heart. And many child therapists would argue the same thing.
I'm sorry your experiences are so different. If my experiences like yours I would also be very upset.
7
@NYC BD I find it very strange that you assume that fathers more often have the child's best interests at heart. On what are you basing this assumption? In a situation with two parents who also employ a nanny, it would seem that neither parent has the best interests of that child at heart. Neither one wants to sacrifice career or finances, and both parents are willing to delegate the raising of the child to an employee. Being a parent means being present. And yes, I stayed home with my 2 youngest children, to the detriment of my career, while my husband worked. Now, I'm back full-time and my husband freelances and takes care of our kids.
7
Kramer v. Kramer was one of the most sexist movies I have ever seen. The woman is presented as a villain. I recognized the movie as sexist when I saw it and I was shocked and disheartened, even though I was just a teen. Or maybe because I was a teen and hoped that the future would be better for me than it was for my mother.
29
My ex and I were both lawyers, and divorced when our son was 4, our daughter 1 1/2. Although we never had a "formal" custody arrangement, we worked together, and the kids spent four nights a week with me, three with him (we always lived within about a mile of each other). Being divorced and a single mom (I was the one who kept their schedules in mind, did most of the schlepping, etc.) was easier than being married - because I had only two children to worry about and pick up after - not three.
116
@RMS Same here but reversed. My ex-wife was abusive--broke my nose in front of the kids, had the cops at our house at 1pm on Saturday, caused child protective services to come interview us and our kids to determine whether they were safe in our crazed environment.
I dropped her, and now my kids and I spend our time being kids, and having fun, and being sweet. Sure, I have more work to do around the house, and scheduling can be a serious problem, but wow, our lives are happy and free of abuse!!
39
@RMS
That reminds me of the comedian who used to joke: My marriage was childless - except for my husband.
9
Been there. Nothing like years of pleading with a husband to see what is happening to you. I always wondered why the therapists we went to never held him accountable for his oblivion, his huge effort to cheat with a nurse that even failed, his lying, his crushing passive/aggression. I did find this in a pop psychology article:
"Another strike against marriage counseling is manifest in an old joke among marriage therapists: We all have skid marks at the door from husbands being drug in. Therapists tend to go out of their way to engage the man because he is 10 times more likely to drop out than his wife. In cases of normal relationship distress, this extra effort to keep the man engaged isn't usually a problem. But in verbally or emotionally abusive relationships it can be disastrous"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200905/emotional-abuse-why-your-marriage-counseling-failed
I read one line from an article in the 90s which blithely said that when a baby is born, a husband can suffer from lack of attention. A husband does. Really? Is there a third person involved here who might need attention? Puts me in mind of "The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost." Holy ghost? Where's mom again? And daughters?
Sounds as though Baumbach did capture some of the suffocating frustration. I'm twice divorced. Never finished my doctorate. And the happiest I've ever been.
11
@Naples I am a psychotherapist and marriage counseling is contraindicated in situations of abuse.
5
Is it your criticism of this film that it does not depict life the way you think life should be?
10
Almost like nature gets a say.
Got to agree with everything you say.
2
Felt that way about Sissy Spacek in "In the Bedroom". Watched it recently and thought hey, why is she stuck being the villain?
4
Gosh, this is depressing.
1
Perhaps this film is autobiography
3
From this review it sounds to me like "Marriage Story" is about two selfish people who married each other. A plague on both of their broken houses.
5
And consider this report in the NY Times Upshot column today on parental leave study in California - men do not take parenting leave even when offered. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/11/upshot/paid-family-leave-research-surprise.html?action=click&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=Article®ion=Footer&contentCollection=The%20Upshot
5
Marriage can only be a means of raising children and consolidating property. People have always known this. Sentimentality began in the later 18th century and is responsible for marriage being no longer secure because it is based on something weak: sentiment, love, whatever they are.
35
@n1789 Yeah, let's all go back to pre-modern social relations because marriage was GREAT back then.
15
@n1789,
I agree. It was almost better to have a separation of logistic vs. emotional relationships acknowledged than today's version where your spouse is supposed to be your end all, be all.
6
@James S I don't think the point is that we should go back, but that we now just ask too much of marriage. The points raised by n1789, coupled with the fact that we all now live much longer, means that we want marriage to support best friends, co-parents, economic partners, exclusive sexual partners and roommates for 50-60 years. It's just unrealistic.
5
I’m a fan of Kramer v Kramer and as I recall, the issue in the public conversation at that time - and it’s stated in the movie - is that some felt there was a prejudice against fathers in custody cases. That was the issue more than the divorce aspect. On the other hand, I’m not opposed to movies that have murky messages. Message movies risk having whole characters in delivering a message.
3
I haven't seen "Marriage Story", but did see "Kramer v Kramer". It's going to be hard to beat the latter, in which two brief moments stick in my mind: (1) Dustin Hoffman's being clueless as to how to make French toast and ultimately breaks the bread slice in half and sticks it in a cup holding the egg batter and (2) the look on Hoffman's face in the courtroom when he learns that his estranged wife is now earning more than he does.
7
So this author objects to the refusal of the director to depict himself as being better than he is -- the autobiographical aspect being hardly news by now?
Or is "progressive" supposed to mean a fairy-tale of which the author approves, as in "Kramer"?
What might have been "progressive" in this current movie is some sense of the world beyond those two hyper-privileged people, their over-praised movies, and their lawyers.
1
It is hard to say what women want when 25 million women approve of Donald Trump's behavior. Apparently things have been going downhill since Kramer vs. Kramer and who is to blame for that?
20
The movie depicts, "a bitter, emotional battle with yelling, tears and many monologues."
Yeah, maybe I'll just schedule that root canal instead.
47
@Philboyd
You know, this is the reality of divorce. It's bitter. There are tears. There are many, MANY monologues.
But you're right, I'd prefer a root canal. A dozen of them.
4
It's a shame that Jourdain Searles fails to acknowledge that "Kramer vs. Kramer," unlike "Marriage Story" was adapted from a novel. The credit for the husband's enlightenment in "Kramer vs. Kramer" goes to the author of the novel, Avery Corman.
13
@Bruce,
adaptations can be open to interpretation and the film maker can choose how to depict a character. and everyone reads characters in novels differently also.
And I thought the “point” of Kramer v. Kramer was that men had few rights to custody even though they could be the far better parent. Silly me.
4
@Richard Katz
I saw "the point" of Kramer being about expectations of one parent/partner were rigid until the other person stopped trying to pretend to agree with those expectations, and how each responded to that shift.
And there's nothing in Kramer about how good/poor a parent the mom was, but was more how the father was forced to fully participate as a parent.
7
@MCD I don't know a lot of decent mothers who would force their husbands to get more involved in child rearing by deserting their 6-year old. (I expect we would each have a different take on the message of Mamet's "Oleana" as well.)
2
Same planet, different world. When I saw the movie, the audience (me included) actually cheered after Laura Dern’s speech re: male vs. female expectations. I loved how the script surprised me by setting her up to be a villain (uh-oh, a lawyer!) and quickly subverted that through her support and advocacy of Nicole. The fact that she was human and had a little extra desire to win did not diminish her for me, but celebrated that, yes, a woman doesn’t have to be a self-effacing saint to be “good.” If tge movie had ended with Driver’s performance of “Being Alive”, I would have felt the same. But instead it ended so bittersweetly and, I think, so clearly but not ham-fistedly underlining that if Driver’s character had been able to open his eyes and compromise sooner, the marriage could have lasted. Although I like K vs. K, that movie ends with Meryl doing the “right” thing and essentially giving everything to Dustin. I’ll take Marriage Story, one of the most human, compassionate, and intelligent movies I’ve seen in a while.
3
If John Wayne had the Dustin Hoffman role, he would have kicked Meryl Streep out and sent the kid to a military school.
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@Gary P. Arsenault
Put Maureen O'Hara in the Meryl Streep role and we'll see who is being kicked out.
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@Lynn in DC Touche.
1
Men and women will never be “equal” unless and until both men and women share child-bearing (yes bearing, not rearing) responsibilities.
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@Jay Orchard - Now there's a cliffhanger, if I ever heard one.
1
Great article. In my opinion, Marriage Story fails because at the end I was sort of scratching my head saying to myself, "Hmm, I think it's supposed to be a feminist movie where the woman stands up for what she wants and gets it." But, if that was the message, it wasn't driven home or told in a way where I was "rooting" for the mother at all. I actually felt more sympathy for the father in the end, because it seems he was starting to understand why he lost his family. But yes, I had to sort of assume that.
The movie also fails because Scarlett Johansson acted more like a childish crybaby than a strong woman out to reclaim her own life. Her performance does not hold a candle to Meryl Streep's in Kramer vs Kramer. As for Laura Dern's lawyer character, I loved her performance. She was funny and entertaining, but her character also feels like a shallow missed opportunity because in the end, she seemed to only care about a "rub it in their face" win.
6
@chrisnyc "Marriage Story" was not meant to be an aspirational feminist movie. It was meant to be a realistic portrayal of the breakup of a modern marriage. Scarlett Johansson's character, Nicole, finally stood up to her husband and moved to LA to pursue her own career. If that isn't strength, I don't know what is.
6
@Art You may be right, but then drive home the message so people like me can get it. Maybe not have her have the ability to live in her nice mother's house in a nice West Hollywood neighborhood. Her loving, supportive sister lives there too.
1
Having seen Kramer v. Kramer several times, I came away with the feeling that Joanna was clearly in the wrong (and was being depicted that way) for walking out on her husband and her son and then demanding custody over her son. At the end she realizes that she was wrong and let's her son stay with Ted.
15
I have to say that when I saw Marriage Story, I also immediately thought of Kramer, and thought it was ahead of it's time thematically in many ways. On the other hand, I felt that Kramer was less "nuanced" in the sense that it was less honest in it's depiction, showing us more what men "should" be like than how they were. Marriage, for me is more "nuanced" in the sense that it's less "pat" by comparison, which is to say that, perhaps, it may be a bit regressive to the extent that we, at this moment in time, are less progressive than we think we are.
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We've had 30 years, and maybe the fantasy that Dustin Hoffman's character depicted is just no longer believable.
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I guess i grew up as "Nicole and Charlie's Child", I still see to this day that my mother abandoned her duties as a mother and wife. I saw my parent's divorce as the result of two busy parents that played a game of tag. Even though they both had busy career, I still saw there are things my mother should of done. In the end, I saw my mother as the selfish one who refused to sacrifice anything choosing her career above all else. And I was there at the end to fend for myself. To this day, I hold the bitter thought "I hope your career was worth it." My parent's relationship history has had major effect to how I see my relationship should be. I am happily married in a relationship where we lift each other up. Although I have to say my relationship with my husband are fairly equal in duties, I still feel there are things that I only I should do such as (dinner by 6, laundry and a clean home). He does things to help out because he cares for me. He knows I care that certain things have to be done or I will stress out about it. I see my family life as priority and so does my husband. My home is a representation of "us" (my husband and I). If everything isn't taken care of, it represents chaos which i am sure that's what the home felt like in "Marriage Story". I guess I see "Marriage Story"'s divorce as inevitable because Charlie didn't care for Nicole's feeling. If a husband and wife can think about how their spouse feel, it saves a lot of arguments, tears and silent treatments.
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@LD
You seem to place all the blame on your mother. Your father is not mentioned at all. I do not know the circumstances through which you lived but I do not believe all the fault is one sided. You have chosen a "traditional" marriage and have assumed the duties of that. That is a perfectly legitimate choice but it is not for everyone. Because others have different needs does not negate what they feel and do. Please consider forgiving your mother or at least see that both parties contributed to the break-up of the marriage.
21
@LD So a woman must cook and clean by virtue of what? Does a Y chromosome make someone unable to do that?
You're angry at your mother rather than your father because you've absorbed society's sexism. Why aren't you mad because your father chose his career over his home life? Your husband helps out, rather than acting as an equal partner.
13
@ExPatMX I do place the majority of blame on my mother. I should of noted that my father I referred to was my stepfather. Although legally speaking I was both their child but when argument ensued I was assumed my mother's child. I saw how my father went "insane" because no one cared how he was doing. No one cared what he wanted to do. I grew up in a household where my mother was always right and when my father "disobeyed" large fights occurred which was almost daily. When they finally divorced after I went to college, I was almost reliefed but realize i had no "home" to go to. My parents sold our home and each got a one bedroom apartment. So i guess I do still place the blame largely on my mother because she was my blood. She won the custody battle when I was young. (lived with grandparents until then ) How do you explain to a child your bed was thrown out and replaced with a pull out couch?
3
"It’s less a film about one particular divorce and more a commentary on divorce itself."
I disagree. This is a movie about the dissolution of the marriage of Nicole and Charlie due to Nicole's rebellion against Charlie's lack of sensitivity to her and her career. Charlie assumes that Nicole is happy in New York playing second fiddle to him and his career. She finally realizes that she has been living her life through him and goes to Los Angeles to pursue her own acting career. She is portrayed more sympathetically through most of the film than is Charlie. However, at the end Nicole and Charlie both reach an agreement that rejects the punitive divorce terms that both of their attorneys advocate . This movie is not an idealized vision of a marriage that Ms. Searles apparently wants it to be. Charlie doesn't have an aha moment where he suddenly realizes that he has been wrong and Nicole has been right, but he does evolve to the point where he and Nicole are able to amicably co-parent their child.
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@Art
"but he does evolve to the point where he and Nicole are able to amicably co-parent their child."
That's the fantasy part.
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@Dejah It happens in reality. This movie is not a generic story of a breakup and divorce. It's supposed to be about a particular couple and their child.
2
Searles makes an important point. What makes Kramer vs. Kramer an enduring picture over the other one is that it shows that people can change and that the force of circumstances can make that possible. Why is Kramer the better film? It comes down to the writing. A good story is one in which a complex protagonist comes to a deeper awareness of his (or her) own mistakes and changes. Good writers do this. Excellent writers bring this concept into art----think of Austen, Dostoyevski, Flaubert. It's not surprising that the current film is weaker. We don't believe that people can change anymore. And even if that is true, because that's certainly the case for many, a person who does not change does not make for an enduring story (or film).
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@Henry Dickens One of the reasons we don’t believe people can change anymore is that men have been so resistant to change in the sphere of family and work. Women have changed a lot in the last several decades after Kramer v Kramer hit the screens. Men, not so much. Women have assumed greater and greater breadwinning responsibilities, often out of necessity. Most men have not assumed greater caregiving responsibilities. Instead, men are resisting change because the current system favors them. Dustin Hoffman’s character is/was a bit of a fantasy then and especially now.
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@MCC
If you believe this, and I don't necessarily disagree with your comments, what would be the point of watching the current film? After reading Searles' article, I don't myself have any intention of doing so.
And I strongly disagree with this notion that people don't change at all. Some don't. True. But some do. And maybe that's the story we need to explore---focusing on hopelessness has never been a good story.
4
@Henry Dickens I would never take the assessment of a single writer as proof positive I shouldn't watch a film myself and form my own opinion about it. Searles raises some valid points, but I read "Marriage Story" quite differently, and thought more about Bergman's "Scenes from a Marriage" than "Kramer," since the focus in "Marriage Story" is on both sides of a couple in spectacularly painful dissolution, not one party sallying forth in single parentdom. Further, Laura Dern's monologue close to the end of the movie was cheered and applauded during the screening I attended; her take on ongoing sexist realities was triumphantly-expressed, and seemingly intended to be perceived as nothing less, though I would never presume to know Noah Baumbach's intentions. To my mind, "Marriage Story" is wonderfully complex, skillfully toggling audience sympathies back and forth. Yes, Adam Driver gets that Sondheim song at the end, but it's Scarlett Johansen's laid-bare, bruised performance that lingered with me most.
4
Laws of human nature. Desires, attachment & grasping are ultimately futile and doomed to disappointments, grief and perhaps pain. Everyone has self-interests, and one's interests rarely align with another person's interests forever. Just let it go.
9
Laws of human nature....mmmm...what sets us apart? Optimism, commitment, friendship, family, shared values? These form the essence of who we are (these and that opposable thumb thing). Divorce rates have gone down or at least stabilized because people are getting it. Good luck to you.
I have not seen this movie yet and I did not read the byline on the article before reading it, but it was clear to me halfway through that this was written by a woman. Most other reviews of the movie that I have read, written by both men and women, seem to think that it does a very good job of balancing the perspective of the man and the woman. Apparently this Ms. Searles was unwilling to put aside her preconceived notions. I am looking forward to seeing it and forming my own opinions.
Believe it or not, there are many households in America where the husband does half (or even more!) of the housework, and is the emotional rock for the children. Unfortunately, it seems like the default assumption in all divorces is that the wife did all the work while the husband was completely checked out.
We still have a long way to go before we hit gender equality, but fortunately, we have made a lot of progress. Women are increasingly more prominent in the workplace, and there are many homes where the husband has stepped up (and there are still unfortunately many where they have not). Let's acknowledge that this is the case, for the benefit of both men and women.
46
@NYC BD Thank you for saying this. The broad brush used to describe marriages long ago became very tiresome to observe.
5
@NYC BD "Believe it or not, there are many households in America where the husband does half (or even more!) of the housework . . . . " I don't think many of us question that. But as a woman going to college in the late 70s, when we were sure that OUR lives would be so different from our mothers because WE would have these great, egalitarian relationships and OUR husbands would do their share, I can only say how sad I am that we not only failed to achieve it, but how very sad I am that we are now just hoping our GRANDCHILDREN might achieve it. We didn't want "many"-- by now we expected MOST or maybe almost ALL. This change is taking too, too long.
14
Sigh. Are we still enduring men’s interpretation of marriage through these films? I wonder what this film would have been if a woman had directed it.
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@Star water Why don't you see the film for yourself before you ask that question? I am as staunch a feminist as they come, and think one of the real strengths of "Marriage Story" is how it creates a nuanced, prismatic look at the most arduous aspects of divorce, and the crises of identity that can lead to it, particularly for women.
5
@Star water
I had the EXACT same thought.
1
Yep.
1