Please pray for the young people of HK. HK people love them. As of old, never has a government treated a whole generation as organized crime.
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If just listening to their beautiful words, most people would love the HK protesters. But if looking at their deeds, one couldn't help wondering how people barking democracy could commit such random and undiscriminating violent acts, including setting people on fire in public display. Not a single person from the protest movement has so far come out to condemn these heinous acts. ISIS may envy their brutality and discipline.
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@smith i think thats too harsh. There is a Korean saying; even a worm will wriggle if you step on it. No one said the protesters in HK acted perfectly. People confronted with great adversity can not be expected to act rationally. Especially when there very existence it at stake. I come from Gwangju, a city cited as the cradle of democracy in Korea. When civilians were attacked by the army they took up arms. They knew it was futile but they couldn't take it laying down.You can't blame them for that. It is the same in HK.
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The video clearly establishes the masked suspect aggressively approaching to assault the police officer and wrestle away his gun. The police officer, whilst in the midst of being assaulted by another suspect, manages to fight this off and open fire in a clear case of self-defense.
Moral of the story: Attack a cop and try to take his gun? Get shot.
And what kind of "protesters" carry around flammable liquid ready to throw upon innocent people and flames to light them on fire?
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The video also clearly show that the police officer pulled out his gun and then grabbed one of the protesters before the scuffle resulted in the shooting. He was NOT being physically attacked before he grabbed the protester, but he already had his gun drawn.
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The video clearly establishes the masked suspect aggressively approaching to assault the police officer and wrestle away his gun. The police officer, whilst in the midst of being assaulted by another suspect, manages to fight this off and open fire in a clear case of self-defense.
Moral of the story: Attack a cop and try to take his gun? Get shot.
And what kind of "protesters" carry around flammable liquid ready to throw upon innocent people and flames to light them on fire?
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Hong Kong people are fighting for their rights given by the Sino-British Joint Declaration. Among the 5 requests from HK majority, the only thing the Government has done, is the withdrawal of the Extradition Bill.
Hong Kong has become a police state now! The Government continues to support the Police to use excessive force to suppress citizens. Many protesters (students) and innocents are arrested. The live gunshots by police and recent death of a student has aroused more anger from public.
Pro-democracy legislative members were arrested on 11.9.2019. Now police attacks the universities' campus, using tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannon, wanting to clear all opposite voice. Students need help, especially foreign governments' pressure to PRC & HK government!
No one wants another Tiananmen Massacre.
More info/videos: rthk vnews (facebook), i-cable news (facebook)
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I've been closely following NYT's coverage of the Hong Kong protests, not least because it reminds me of my native South Korea's struggle for democracy under Presidents Rhee, Park and Chun -- namely the April Revolution of 1960, Busan-Masan Protests of 1979 and Gwangju Uprising of 1980. The last culminated in a bloody crackdown after days of street warfare between paratroopers and armed citizen militias. Those born around or after the '88 Seoul Olympics learn of these tumultuous times in our republic's history, but pay them little attention and take for granted our civil liberties. As is natural.
I'm not so naive as to equate the political and socioeconomic situations of Korea and Hong Kong, 40 years apart. Hong Kong's unique geography, shifting demographics and ever-skyrocketing rents no doubt fueled such an explosive response to the government's encroachment upon civil rights, real and perceived. But in the streets of Hong Kong, I see the people doing the only thing they can to wrest back power from an authoritarian regime under which they have no other recourse. My countrymen have made the same attempts, and ultimately succeeded. I am less sanguine about Hong Kong's future, as I'm sure many other observers are, but that's not the point.
Loss of life or limb, whatever the circumstances, no matter what "side," is a somber matter. But perhaps Thomas Jefferson was right: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
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They want to be free. Isn’t that worth any price?
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@Dave M Hong Kong people would like to keep their value that are almost same with the value of western value. So if they fail, it won't be good to the democratic world either. Also, the fighting for free are based on an international treaty. You guy American will face the same issue if the CCP will honor the trade agreement which will be signed soon. Please think about it. A book " The Clash of Civilizations" could give some ideas about this movement.
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@Dave M
They ARE free, in case you haven't noticed them shouting in the streets and throwing firebombs with no repercussions.
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The police shot protesters with gun, why would protesters can't use patrol bomb.
It is easy for the Western media to project noble ideals onto the "protesters". Rising up against an evil empire, blah, blah, blah. But I don't think that is quite it. I don't know that one thing can explain it but some things that come to mind:
1- A generation faces assimilation by what feels like a foreign power. HKers have a distinct identity from communist China, and evil or not, the idea of being absorbed by a different culture is terrifying. Understand that even the predominant spoken dialect is quite different.
2- Wealth disparity has left many in HK feeling that their opportunities are limited.
3- The power of the internet to reinforce tribalism and to mobilize mobs.
Think about it. What is the average HK college kid really fighting for? There are no clear leaders. No clear agenda.
Instead of fanning the flames, we need to try to understand what is going on. Otherwise, what goes around could come around. The US faces some of the same challenges albeit in a slightly different form. I am afraid that what is going on there could easily happen here. Very afraid.
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@The F.A.D. My understanding is that, ironically, the main requests are addressing circuitously the protest itself. To stop labeling it a riot, release arrested protestors, among a few. But yes, they are also protesting their fear of mainland China. I don't blame them. You get extradited to mainland you could be tortured, held without trial etc.
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@The F.A.D.
There is no great difference in culture. The dialect spoken in Hong Kong is Cantonese which is spoken with the same accent in Guangzhou (previously “Canton”) and throughout the pearl river delta.
Just 3 days ago, I was attending an art fair in Shanghai with a friend - both of us born and raised in Hong Kong - and a girl from one of the galleries approached us to promote their artists - my friend asked her if she was from Hong Kong, and she said “No, I’m from Guangzhou”. That is how similar it is, and with the younger, educated generation, it is basically not possible to tell in casual conversation without asking.
So to say that it is a different culture with a different dialect shows gross misunderstanding. China has dozens of dialects, originally from different ethnicities, and these ethnicities have formed a nation for nigh on two thousand years.
It has often been remarked that China is a civilisational state masquerading as a nation and this is basically correct. The underlying culture with a shared written language, literature, and history is what has tied disparate regions in a huge country together for two thousand years.
This new narrative of “Hong Kongers” with a separate language is both disingenuous, and for foreigners who swallow this, misinformed.
As for wealth disparity, this is, unfortunately the case in every important international city worldwide including London, Paris, New York etc.
This will not change whoever is in charge and is irrelevant.
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@Arthur I am well aware that historically most HKers speak Cantonese, as spoken in Guangzhou where many HKers came from. That said, I would argue that Mandarin(the official dialect of China) is becoming more and more common in HK since the Chinese takeover. Further, there is a vast cultural difference and it is the difference between a British colony and Communist China. If the rules are not different, if the culture is not different, what are the protests about?
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All this could have been avoided if China had kept its word and allowed Hong Kong to choose its own leaders.
And in the meantime, Taiwan is watching.
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@fred Yes. One country two systems. That's what they were promising in 1988 when I lived there.
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They tried protesting peacefully. One million people marched peacefully. Then TWO million. The government chose to ignore them.
Before you condemn the protesters, please understand WHY they are out there risking their lives everyday:
-freedom of speech
-freedom of the press
-freedom to elect their own Chief Executive
-accountability for police brutality for the past 5 months
-an independent investigation into the "suicides" and allegations of rape/sexual assault against arrested protesters
-and so much more.
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@KT I'm not so sure that the protesters are being condemned broadly speaking. Rather it's the violence.
Media coverage will always highlight violence, it's the nature of the beast. Even if 99% of the protesters are peaceful, that 1% will be where the spotlight continues to be. What compounds this is the decentralized nature, that makes it more difficult for accountability, and to change course.
If the hivemind figures it out -- whether in the interest of self-preservation or due to credible figures within the movement making a push for it -- it will be a huge relief.
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@KT The fact is: HK is the third-best on the "freedom index."
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/freest-countries/
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I love the way this article wraps up. A bill on sanctions for Hong Kong officials, review of that special trade status- that this president and Congress could get behind. With Sen McConnell sitting as gatekeeper. Never mind his family business connections with China.
Does he have a son-in-law? Maybe he could reach out to a Chinese son-in-law....and straighten all this out- you know, that, backdoor thing? Oh right- we’re going to spend a week of Republicans working the name of Hunter Biden into every possible Impeachment comment.
Meanwhile, standing for democracy, fair elections (that Hong Kong has torpedoed with candidate limitations), caving to Chinese propaganda that we are behind all this. As if we could have orchestrated the way China has mis-handled this from the start.
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Accusing the police intervening? Why don’t we look at the other side of the story. Unarmed people got beaten up, an old man was set on fire, just because they hold a different opinion than the protesters. Is that the kind of democracy you defend? It’s 21st century, I thought we were up for freedom of speech.
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Demonstrations and social unrest are happening in Spain, Chile, France, Iraq, and Honduras. Only in HK, we saw protesters go as violent as setting people on fire in public display, because of different opinions. Only in HK, no one from the protest movement has so far come out to condemn any violent actions committed by their fellow demonstrates. The HK protesters surely bark different slogans from ISIS. But how are their deeds different?
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A very sad day and I am gutted
God bless my brothers and sisters at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, and all the alumni there right now to help get the students out of the campus from the insane Militarized Police attack.
Instead of following British system, CUHK was built about 60 years as the first American styled university when the island was still a British colony. It has the strongest connection with the US academia among all colleges there and carries the highest number of US exchange students. I hope everyone is safe and sound!
Ever since I went to college there when internet was just begin to bloom, CUHK has been the hosting center for HK Internet eXchange, the network backbone where currently 99% of internet interaction in Hong Kong goes through and connect to US.
These are just two very examples, among others, to show that American interests also at stake when the university is being attacked by the local police force directed by the Beijing government. And we need to ask our own Leader McConnell--when you will bring the HK Human Rights and Democracy Bill to the Senator floor?! Are you prioritize your wife Ms Elaine Chao's family business in China over American interests and values? Republicans will be treated with contempt every where in the country if you let quid pro quo become a culture or just a label to your party!
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Never too late to have ICJ trials Hong Kong Police Force for brutality. All 30,000 members should stand trial. Nürnberg 2.0?
Is it the reality happed in The Chinese University of Hong Kong.
Colonial HKG government let Master of Chinese Culture set up college in Sha Tin decades ago but now the police of HKSAR is gong to damage the reputation of this university and arrested the students. So sad and so ridiculous
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Students are defending their own campus, but were accused of illegal assemblies and called “rioters”. What did they do wrong?
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More McConnell perfidy. Impeach him. Meanwhile, it sounds like the Hong Kong government would do better to just tell the police to stay home.
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China should respect the "one country, two systems" policy. Influencing the elections in Hong Kong, and increasing that influence, is disrespectful. End of story.
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If Carrie Lam response to their demand when the protest begins, those incidents will not be happed.
The troubles in Hong Kong facing now is the governer not listen to the teenagers, and trying to kill them all.
If the Hong Kong government wants the protest end, they need to investigate the police and stop using violence against the protesters.
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The protests in Hong Kong are very serious and it all started because there was a shooting in Hong Kong. Protesters became angry over the shooting of a young demonstrator. The protests eventually spread to a college campus where people threw gasoline bombs at police lines. This problem became to serious that police tackled demonstrators to the ground, and threw tear gas at aa group on the sports field. Who made this a problem and why is it so important.
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The protester didn't have a gun, so the force was not equal. There were military looking police all over the area, so it wasn't as of the cop was outnumbered.
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@Erica Chan where did you see or learn that they were attempting to snatch the gun from the policeman?
@Erica Chan did you know what have happened July 21, Aug 31? The HKSAR government has many chances to listen Hong Kongers but they did not. Why? Because the back big boss behind Carrie Lam is the CCP which has long history not giving people one inch quoted their wording.
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I believe that the way that the situation was handled led to a much more messy outcome. Protesters were blocking morning commutes which led to student and adults not being able to go to work or school. Tear gas is being used which is extremely dangerous. Numbers of people going to the hospital and death rates must have gone up tremendously during the week.
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China thought it could treat Hong Kong as a colony and disregard their citizens’ rights. Extraditing anyone accused (accused, not found guilty) of a crime to China before trial? Whose stupid idea was that? The police have injured far more protesters than the protestors have injured police. These protestors have been ingenious and deserve our support. China is no friend of the US.
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HK is a part of China, not Colony. HK was once colony in past. Now, they have to follow law as people in USA to follow USA law. Police has the authority to main the order as police in USA.
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@Kyle There was a promise: One country, two systems. Mainland China betrayed this promise. Frankly, having lived in both China and Hong Kong, I can say that I would be terrified to live under PRC "law".
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People have the right to revolt against a tyrannical government, no matter what laws that govt has. Laws are made up rules that members of society must all agree to follow. They aren't natural.
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The narrative around the protests is being redirected to the violence, which is a shame. Hong Kong's democracy is still under threat
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What scares me is that our country may be this in less than a decade if the present administration continues at its pace.
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The issues in Hong Kong are starting to get out of hand with students starting fires and throwing gasoline bombs at police officers. What they are protesting for does show that they have freedom of speech but they are going do end up starting what could be a Civil War. The problem has gotten to the point of harshness that the U.S Government has gotten involved in the situation. Congress and President Trump could help out by making a bill that could give the protesters a little more leverage, but Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky has not voted yet. Therefore, What I am trying to say is I am not against the protestors for what they are fighting for but the only time they should refer to violence is if a police officer attacks them for no apparent reason then they shall be allowed to stick up for themselves.
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@Pablo Problem is that the protestors are individuals, so just because some are violent, doesn't mean the whole protest is violent. I saw a video of HK Police flopping around unconscious body without supporting neck and other emergency procedures.
Tensions are escalating and as a result there will be instances of violence erupt from both sides, hopefully short lived and without triggering further aggression. But the United States and the rest of the free world should never lose sight of who the "good guys" are in this battle. It's black and white (or rather red), the people of Hong Kong are battling for their rights and liberties against oppression from Beijing. Instances of violence from them shouldn't mar the overall movement. Be Water protesters, and know the free world admires your efforts.
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