I watched this video and in it heard the man called "Johnny". I said to myself, OMG, is that Johnny Kest? Reading the article I saw that it was. I am a long time Yoga student living in northern MI, but have visited his classes several times, the last being maybe 14 years ago, as I was appalled at his teaching and never went back. I see him as the type of yoga teacher who really wants to be a Guru and have students adore and almost worship him; he wants to be a social worker/therapist in addition to being a Yoga teacher and thus, fails at both. Personally I couldn't wait to get out of his class and will definitely never go back! So interesting that the idea of asking consent has never really even occurred to him - what does that say??
2
Trauma, no trauma. Would he use these yoga adjustments on his 15 year old daughter?
1
This seems like a no brainer. As one woman suggested, have a system that allows people to opt in to adjustments for each class.
As a student of yoga for years, I appreciate the occasional correction. It’s always been in the form of a light repositioning of a pose. However, all of my teachers have been female. I would be very uncomfortable if a man went as far as Mr. Kest did. I feel that it was a power play. In my experience, yoga is all about melding mind/body into oneness. Overt touching seems to be an interference with that.
Perhaps an introductory class to explain what to expect during a practice would be beneficial. Participants could be encouraged to speak with their instructors prior to class to let them know they prefer not to be touched. No explanation needed, just the heads up.
The best instructor I’ve ever had offers a shoulder adjustment during shavasana to aid in the relaxation experience. She asks those who do not wish to have this done to place their towel on the floor above their head.
PART 1- A reporters dream come true.. bashing others to make a story to enhance their career while trying to ruin the lives of others in the process. As a certified yoga instructor I am appalled by this article.
Yoga was created to link breath and movement to calm the mind during meditation. Yoga is an exercise that moves your body into various postures. If you’re not ready or open to accept that practicing yoga comes with moving your body in was you never thought you could then DON’T attend class and DON’T attend yoga events that will in some way harm, threaten, or effect your feelings. Practice yoga at home. Listening &practicing with a live yoga teacher is not meant for you at this time.
I wish I could have attended that event in Asheville, unfortunately I could not because I was occupied with learning Jonny Kest’s method on how to teach yoga. As a yoga instructor, you should be opened to learning new adjustments whether or not they are in your teaching practice. Does that mean you have to use them in your practice? Of course not. I have never seen Jonny perform the adjustment shown in the video on anyone, but I have received this adjustment while learning it, and instantly, my extreme back pain was relieved. I had never felt better after an adjustment.
He did not say go to a student and do this to them. He demonstrated one or two OUT OF MANY adjustments. If I knew my student, I would perform the adjustment and help them with their back problems because it helped me.
3
@Michelle: I just wanted to thank you for this robust, reasoned response. I am also a yoga teacher and am extremely uncomfortable about the current moral panic about the place of touch in teaching and I am grateful for you articulating it all so clearly! Touch is part of human experience and yoga is a physical art. So touching and physical adjustement is an entirely natural part of yoga transmission and not inherently predatory or sexual. Some teachers have abused this, most have not, nor would dream of doing so.
PART-2 Instead of closing yourself off to the idea just be opened to receive it and what you do with the information is all on you. Yes, it’s uncomfortable, but so is yoga. It is really uncomfortable. So be prepared to get uncomfortable or STAY HOME. Also, it is the STUDENTS responsibility to approach the teacher before class and let them know they do not want to be touched. As a STUDENT you entered the class room and have taken full responsibility knowing that practicing yoga comes with hands-on adjustments. Don’t assume people know what and how you’re feeling, so speak up.
Jonny is an advanced yoga teacher with many hours of training. He has a strong following base for a reason. To put shame on his name for something you obviously don’t understand is repulsive. Practice yoga at home if you can’t handle the full practice.
And as for those who have been assaulted and attend yoga class or events- a huge apology to what happened to you and how you respond to life now. Rebuilding your trust for others is hard, but to look at every man who touches or adjust another women in yoga class as predator is cruel and unfair. Sending prayers your way that you learn to trust others without any judgment or assumption. If touching others is sensitive to you then speak up to your teacher before class or practice at home.
2
@Michelle
I disagree with your statement that students entering a class should know that practicing yoga comes with adjustments.
Just as you say students should notify a teacher before a class on their preference, I believe its even more the obligation of teachers to let students know at the start of a practice session know whether or not they perform adjustments (not all adjust in my experience) and ways to signal if they prefer to opt out.
@Michelle
Agreed.
Jonny’s workshop was intended for professional yoga teachers, and the teachings therein ought to have been interpreted through a professional lens.
Yoga has the potential to dramatically transform the experience, attitudes and beliefs of practitioners by providing a safe space to confront triggers. True yoga is about getting uncomfortable, being fully present during challenging experiences, and finally finding equanimity. This is how neural plasticity happens. It is “the how” of finally changing or break free from that which does not serve us.
Lets appreciate and celebrate the humanness and vulnerability of all beings. And remember, even the greatest teachers are still learning. Be kind.
1
I don’t know this teacher so I’m basing my comment on this video. He asks what’s the real answer and says there isn’t one. Well, yes there is. The person who might be bothered should be prioritized over the one that isn’t. Simple! As a mom of seven I’ve had to teach consent, privacy, and personal boundaries for the past 22 years and still going. How do I teach my kids they can’t just touch someone’s body without permission but I can, because I’m a yoga teacher so it’s ok. ??? Consent is consent. You either have it, or don’t. It’s not a hard to figure out, and if it is for you... STOP TOUCHING.
4
There's a lot to unpack here and I'm not taking sides -- not that I don't have a side to take, rather I'm choosing not to take one -- but the setting where this happened in a workshop. Workshops are very different than classes and workshop participants are usually either teachers or advanced practitioners who, most likely, know what the workshop is about. IOW expect much more hands-on adjusting in a workshop if that's what the workshop is about. That said his mansplaining is a big problem.
4
@DFinMA hi DFinMA! I didn't find it to be "mansplaining" at all. Simply because he was a man, doesn't mean anything you disagree with is also mansplaining. Try to take the gender out of it and listen to what Jonny is saying. He's giving the workshop and the others are there to learn from him. I saw it more as guiding a conversation. And he was brave enough to say what he really thinks instead of just agreeing and cowtowing to the current toxic feminist agenda. Please have an open mind when viewing material like this. I think that helps to better understand it, and to come away with fresh view points!
1
@James His explanations were illogical. There's a reason that so many of the other people in the class, who were also instructors, were confused by his reasoning. It's because he didn't have any.
There are dozens of ways to ask the class beforehand who doesn't want adjustments without singling people out. Most instructors will start with some kind of meditation or sivasana where everyone's eyes are closed and just ask those who don't want adjustments to flip a palm (or similar). Other instructors do this all the time. It's actually a huge anomaly for Kest to not do this, so lending any credence whatsoever to his excuses is just silly.
2
Dumb luck and an expectation that you are confirming.
There is a much bigger, and frankly more interesting story here that you are missing completely.
You seem intent on making Kest (and make yoga teachers in general?) look bad. And you’ve done that.
But in your biased zeal you’ve missed something bigger. It isn’t just men abusing and it isn’t just physical touch. (And come on, I have been adjusted very intimately by women in adjustment workshops and had similar conversations around appropriateness and what we actually bring to class, it is easy to take that out of context.)
Here is the thing: 8 limbed yoga gets to the core of the person and when you combine that with corporate interests the problem is much larger.
3
I have taken many Jonny Kest classes I have also taken 300 training and a workshop. I never saw any adjustments or touching in this manner. Actually he teaches to not invade space use heal of hand never fingers in making an adjustment and points out poses a male should never approach a female when in those poses. Adjustments like the one shown in the video (never seen this as I said) I am sure are for students you know extremely well and will be happy to have received it. There is now way Mr. Kest is saying, do this to a woman who is a first timer in your class or new to yoga.
I thought he did not run from the question in fact he opened it up for debate and asked for thoughts. It is so much easier to hate then find out more. There're many who welcome Jonny's adjustments. Should they be denied.
I can count three times when female teachers have crossed a line performing adjustments on me and made me very uncomfortable. Additionally, teachers have modeled a pose directly in front of me like a primate in heat while other female student(s) seem to think they are on stage in a cabaret, making my wife (also a teacher) furious that a teacher would do that and in front me of her and I. Among other things there are 10's of 1000's females teachers and students who have never felt violated by Jonny nor his teachers.
The article really sounds like a man hating story. The story is written in the usual hate the Times is known for. It's funny since yoga was invented by men for men.
1
That's astonishing to see, this is not what people expect in yoga classes at all. There is a world of difference between a subtle adjustment like straightening of the bag by gentle pressure toward the top of the spine and a profoundly intrusive adjustment like putting yourself between someone's legs, against their pelvis and handling their abdomen.
This adjustment exists within the practise of shiatsu. Like massage, shiatsu uses physical techniques for health. A patient/client will attend shiatsu and even though they are there for physical contact and pressure, there is a constant sense of what is potentially intrusive as well as ongoing confirmation that non-intrusive technique is being practised in a manner consistent with the client's comfort levels.
They are asked whether pressure is ok. They are asked to signal if anything in any way feels uncomfortable. They are told in advance about techniques that work inside the legs, around the hips or abdomen or front and sides of the ribs and genuinely asked whether they are comfortable with the idea of a technique and then for permission to do the technique itself. And this is in a setting where the client has come to be handled.
To diminish the questioner by comparing an intrusive technique with touching of a shoulder is completely disingenuous. There's a massive difference. Not asking permission, whether someone is attending their first or fiftieth class, is arrogance at best. This is what a Guru Complex looks like.
5
@Roger with few exceptions people welcome hands on this exercise was not intended to show teachers how to approach a newcomer to yoga or your class. I am sure he would not do that to a new student with or without permission.
1
@Tommy Please stop making excuses and go back and watch the video again. Derrow politely asks him later if he asks for consent **for this particular adjustment** and he says no, that he never does.
I've been practicing for many years, I would still want consent before something like this -- which he specifically says he does not do. Nobody, whether an advanced practitioner or a newcomer, comes expecting an adjustment that intrusive (and would never even know to tell the instructor in advance about it, like some people have suggested above). People who are generally fine with adjustments would not be okay with this. And he expressly says, about this adjustment, that he never asks consent.
So it seems to me that we actually agree. It's an intrusive adjustment that should only be done after the person agrees to it. The only disagreement seems to stem from the fact that you don't accurately remember what he said.
1
@Kendall
The classes Jonny teaches are attended by extremely well-practiced vinyasa and ashtanga yogis teachers that show up with an understanding that yoga is a practice meant to build equanimity and non reactivity.
Jonny intentionally creates sacred space and an environment that allows students to introspect and transform beyond their limits. He does not touch or adjust anyone that he does not personally know.
This content has been taken way of out context and presented in a fashion that is aimed to manipulate and propagate those who don’t have access the reality of Jonnys actual yoga “classes.”
This guy is so out of hand. It doesn't work to ask whether someone wants to be touched or adjusted? They won't say they don't want to be touched if they feel uncomfortable with it, so why bother asking? How outrageous, egotistical, and disempowering. I am a yoga teacher and have trained with a number of teachers who offer very "hands on" adjustments. They ALWAYS ask permission and tell the student what they're going to do... and it never looks like something out of the karma sutra like this ridiculous "diaper change" adjustment. You can get just as much space into that student's lower back and pressure on the piriformis by using a strap around her back and gently pulling. No hands-on touch required, and definitely no legs in the air or around your waist. It's frightening to see the lengths he goes just in this 2 minute video to discredit asking for consent or that anyone would be uncomfortable being in such an intimate position with a yoga teacher in a public space.
9
The method of "open conversation" in this group is a gaslighting technique at it's finest. When Kest asked the first student to repeat what she felt about the assist which he demonstrated he sounded very lighthearted yet mocking her at the same time. It was meant to be a confusing tone for her and the room. He then chose her language for her, using the (now) controversial term "offended" rather than the more emotionally intelligent language of upset and surprised which she used. Next when he posed a question to the group he answered it himself right away. Again confusing the group - I want you to tell me, but instead I'll tell you. When the first student began describing her view in more detail he spoke over her in order to control the narrative. She continued to use her voice and described his assist for what it really is - "I'm gonna sit down between your legs and open your legs..." yet he creatively redirected the narrative and simplified it as "touch" repeating that subtle quality of mocking. Again confusing in a room filled mostly with admirers. With this behavior, I wouldn't be surprised to hear he did not seek consent or listen many more times than this, as well as other non-public different contexts.
One more point I'd like to make is that in this video there is a room full of intelligent and obviously experienced Yoga teachers studying with this man, yet he is the least mature and skilled person in the room. Perhaps the most important mirror for us women.
28
I am a sexual assault victim advocate by training and I have been practicing yoga for 19 years. Receiving adjustments is a huge benefit to me. I appreciate this story and all discussions about bringing consent culture to yoga spaces.
5
He was refusing to listen because he doesn’t want to make any changes to his behavior. He also controlled the discussion so that it appeared there was no solutions. It’s very easy as the one student said - just ask who wants to be adjusted.
15
His covering of her seventh chakra diminishes her power in many ways.
8
The fact that he terms this so-called yoga adjustment "diaper change" speaks to how he either fetishizes or infantilizes his students. He's gross.
12
This guy Kest is scared; he knows he's out of integrity, and he has been for a long time, and he's afraid the chickens are coming home to roost.
6
EEEEK!!! This man is not hearing these women. His ego has dulled his senses and he is completely incapable of hearing what they are telling him. He lacks empathy. He is not a yogi. He is the very antithesis of a yogi. This is a fairly common occurrence with yoga celebrities.
22
I really took a lot away from this report; thank you. I find hands on adjustments to be very helpful and a beautiful part of yoga; it is hard to put into words but slight pressure in the "right" direction can really provide almost immediate insight into where you should be going; verbal instruction gets you there too but it's a longer journey. But I'm male and things are just so much easier for men in so many ways. When I think about the fact that so many of the woman in class with me suffer from their traumas rooted in sexual assault, then it is absolutely 100% clear that our community will have to evolve so that all physical adjustments in yoga are done only after prior consent. I really have a hard time believing that we cannot find creative, respectful way to ask for consent. The negative side-effects suggested by Kest are in my opinion absurd. If K Rosman attends one workshop and uncovers this story serendipitously, with high probability there are many similar cases remaining out there.
15
thank you for this comment. after comments from men describing this as toxic feminism and implying that yoga belongs to men, it's heartening to hear a man getting it
1
No touching ever - that’s how I feel about it. I’m sure many people who also come from a background of childhood abuse (when we couldn’t protect ourselves) feel the same way.
7
That is a very intimate way to touch someone and without asking for any sort of consent, while wearing extremely form fitting clothes is just wrong. I have only been to 3 or 4 yoga classes in my whole life and I always found it weird and creepy with all the touching without asking. I had to explicitly tell a yoga teacher not to touch me cause I saw him fixing other women's positions and he was not very happy and told me that I needed to relax, yup no I don't think so. You don't touch people without their consent.
10
I am glad that the NYT is hosting this conversation. Last fall I was at a favorite yoga retreat center that I thought would be a safe place for me to heal as a survivor. They had a new male teacher on staff who started to adjust me without asking. It was hard to ask him to take his hands off me when I was already triggered that way. Luckily I had several supportive friends, including other staff members, who helped afterward. I hope that the conversations that were started there that weekend make it a safer place for survivors to heal.
16
@June N As a teacher and fellow survivor, I am so sorry you went through this. Yoga can be so healing, but triggers are inherent. We carry this trauma in our very DNA. So moving into the body will unveil layers of difficulty anyway; having someone re-trigger you is awful. I hope you continue to practice. And use your voice as a method of healing ;)
3
@Rachel
Thank you for this thoughtful response. I appreciate your reminder about of the body’s wisdom. I feel optimistic about the journey I am on & grateful that I was able to speak out of the mindfulness my practice has helped me develop.
3
"Sometimes I even rock a little..." etc. Wow! I personally might have laughed out loud-- not because it's funny per se-- but due to the incongurity between an outrageous violation of personal space and vulnerable and clearly sexual positioning under the guise of a serious adjustment. Or maybe I just wanted to laugh out of incredulty being on the outside watching this, but I can certainly imagine feeling completely violated and disgusted in the situation myself.
I can't beleive her feels there's "no answer" to the question of how to approach touching and consent. That's his opinion but clearly asking for consent is an option and if it's not, he doesn't have respect for boundaries. But he already demonstrated that.
I must say, when seeking treatment from male PTs doing adjustments, releases, and hands-on work, I have had them place their hands in questionable places, such as right above my breast or by my tailbone, and I had difficulty knowing what was legitimate or not and felt I had to trust the provider.
16
Yikes! This should be a huge wake up call for both yoga teachers and students as to how power dynamics and consent can work their ways into even the most innocuous of spaces. This is 2019 - always starting with consent should be an obvious choice. Mainstream yoga has to start doing better and keep leaders accountable.
I think mainstream yoga has a lot to learn from the practice of Trauma Sensitive Yoga (TSY), a complementary treatment approach that provides healing for people suffering from PTSD. It’s groundbreaking as a treatment option and most importantly, works to honor, respect, and empower yoga students to take charge of their own body and focus on the internal work rather than the external appearance of adjustments and validation. I can see how many of these principles could be incorporated into the training and certification of all yoga instructors, not just those teaching TSY.
We all benefit by operating in a way that is safer, more inclusive, and designed to protect the most vulnerable among us.
10
I'm not shocked or surprised by the teaching and adjustments, but way more by the paper and reactions. As professionnal dancer, BMC practicionner, and yoga teacher, I met several times close contact; usually we are supposed to let a the door culture and social language to learn practice/new materials. However I believe it is important that if the student is uncomfortable with something he/she should say so, but the others saying that the student is felling and doing the wrong way is a kind of abuse. Hence I condemn rather the "puritanic-ish" comments rather than the teaching way. I believe it's all about culture. I believe that's also good to talk about it and share thoughts.
@Mathieu I don't know if you're understanding the context here. It is not "puritanic-ish" to not want to be touched without consent. Everyone deserves a say in whether and when they are touched or not touched. Many, many women, and some men, have been subject to sexual assault at some time in their lives. In every yoga class there will be those who don't want to be touched for many reasons. I have great respect for those teachers who are figuring out ways to put consent at the forefront of their teaching. As for the teacher in this clip? He points out that he can do the same adjustment on two different people and one will feel violated and one won't. He doesn't seem to know what to do about that. The answer seems simple and vitally important--you ask.
6
@Mathieu your comments demonstrate that you don't understand what trauma does; which is disempowers the traumatised person from taking appropriate action to re-instate safety. And also that you do not understand the position of power up position that you, as a male in this culture, inherently hold. Women are only just learning to speak up, after milennia of being silenced, whereas men have always had the right to do so. I hope the meanings of this are no longer invisible to you.
Your suggestion that the student "should" say something if they are uncomfortable is a good thing to aim for in the future, but it is not accessible to someone with, for example, a sexual trauma history.
It also involves a person calling attention to themselves in a group, and making a boundary, which is not always easy for various reasons from being traumatised, being shy, to fearing ostracism from the group.
In an ideal world we "should" all be able to stand up for ourselves at the time of the incident, but given that many victimised people have been trained since childhood not to do this, teachers need to ask for consent.
Also, dance is not yoga. Dancers are trained in a very different way from yoga students, who often only go to one class a week, often for relaxation or fitness. Yoga students are not necessarily there to push boundaries and discover new creative forms, but to retreat from the busyness of the world and restore themselves. I say, let's make that as easy as possible for them.
7
Vote with your feet. Don’t go to classes where the instructor does not ask for consent and prefers to stay that way. (One of the major reasons I do not go to yoga in the US)
6
I've been a student at CFY for several years now. Out of all the yoga teachers, Jonny is certainly the most 'hands on', and when you go to a Jonny class, that's just kind of how it is. I think there are valid concerns in this article about when its not okay to touch a student without their consent, however the issue was the nature of the pose, not that yoga teachers touch/get close to their students. At CFY, the best moments in class are when you hold hands with someone next to you in boat pose, or when you hold each other up in airplane. The most spiritual and sacred moments are when you are sweating, near breaking, and a teacher comes by and touches your back or adjusts you and gives you that push you thought you didn't have in you, or merely adjusts you in some way that solidifies a teacher - student connection and intensifies the experience in a spiritual way. So I think being hypersensitive about yoga teachers touching in all cases is an annoying defect of our current culture. However, the specific concerns brought up in this article over adjusting a student into a pose of such obvious sexual nature is very legitimate.
8
@Bella Those are the best moments for YOU, perhaps, not everyone. I also enjoy gentle hands-on adjustment, but it is a simple thing for an instructor to use various methods of obtaining consent before contact. Why not make this a best practice for the yoga industry? And if anyone ever tried putting me in that "diaper change" pose, I would be extremely upset.
2
Thank you so much for reporting on this. The video absolutely made me sick. That guy deserves to be called out. I feel really proud of the woman who spoke up, and so disturbed by his answer. Thank god this article will make him think twice about his actions.
17
Another man who isn't sure that explicit consent is the answer when wondering whether or not to touch or put his body against a stranger in a public setting, most likely of the opposite sex.
13
@Meghan actually, I'm quite aware of what explicit consent is, apparently more so than you are. First, it doesn't matter whether it's in a public setting or not. It also doesn't matter what gender the person is. Many of the accusations of sexual assault and harassment in yoga studios are leveled against female instructors--by both female and male students. Fortunately, your misathropic attitude is becoming passe. Many of us are trying to have an intelligent conversation here about an important topic. Your obnoxiousness does nothing to further the conversation or bring solutions.
2
@James The fact that you took this comment as a personal insult against you is a fascinating insight into exactly what the poster was referencing.
2
Once you get past the "gasp, that's so horrible, he's a misogynist etc", which is what the majority of the comments here are saying and what this article seems to be trying to convey, it's important to come back to the question of "consent". Here, I think Jonny has a point...
I heard a yoga teacher say that consent in yoga is the same as consent for a doctor. It isn't. And this is where the confusion comes in. With a doctor or dentist, you consent to a specific procedure and nothing more. Broadly phrased consents by healthcare professionals are routinely ruled as invalid by the courts. So, my question for the advocates of "consent cards" is what, specifically are you consenting to? What kind of touch are you allowing.
There is no analogy of blanket consent in healthcare. Physicians know this and spell out very specifically what you are consenting to. THAT is informed consent.
Since an "x" on a consent card basically says to the instructor "you can touch me" and don't specify how, where or when, doesn't that open practitioners up to even more abuse? How would the "consent card" Catherine seems to be advocating prevent Jonny from sitting down in front of you, spreading your legs and wrapping them around himself.
I heard an interview with Donna Farhi (who heavily pushes the consent cards). The interview pointed out how cumbersome they were. And I agree. I also think they actually accomplish the opposite of what was intended. That is what Jonny seems to be saying here.
5
@James How exactly are consent cards "cumbersome"? They seem to me to be a simple solution to what is clearly a complicated problem.
7
@1F "cumbersome" was the word used by an interviewer of Donna Farhi on this subject. I believe it was a New Zealand or Australian radio show. You can find it on her website.
My point is that "consent cards" are not a simple solution at all. Advocates of them, including Donna Farhi, do not seem to understand the concept of informed consent. That kind of consent is very specific. In fact, there is no such thing as "non-informed consent"--anywhere.
For example, if you put your consent card on the "touch ok" side, what are you actually consenting to? Can someone touch you however they want? How can they touch you?
Aren't you a little concerned that someone puts "touch ok" and an unscrupulous instructor sees that as an invitation to something more? Aren't you concerned that giving that kind of blanket consent opens you up to abuse?
Unless both you and the instructor have a clear and explicit understanding of what touch you are consenting to, then it is not informed consent (which is the only kind that matters).
Moreover, in the scenario of your consent cards, each student in each class would have to have a specific understanding with the teacher as to what type of touch the student was consenting to. So yeah...that kinda cumbersome.
The only way the consent cards even conceivably work is the scenario where everyone says "no touch". In which case, you don't need consent cards. Just make all of the classes "no touch". Then everyone will miss out on the benefits of touch.
3
@James There's a huge difference between a doctor and a yoga teacher in terms of touching! Doctors, nurses, PTs, and other medical professionals all have what was referred to informally in my yoga teaching training as a "license to touch". And granted, while we've seen extreme inappropriate touching, there is an expectation when you see a medical professional, there will be some necessary physical contact. Not so with yoga teachers! First, you don't know what training the yoga teacher had. Consent is critical, for all the emotional reasons others here have outlined.
But one reason I haven't seen clearly described is the danger of hurting someone -- something I personally saw with an overly aggressive female yoga teacher who thought she knew how far/how much you "should" be doing. The student I saw manipulated was pushed beyond her physical limits to the point of "bad" pain she confided in my afterwards. She never came back to class.
My experience with this teacher when she tried to come to adjust me was to tell her no, I was working within my limits. She berated me and told me how do I expect to improve if I don't push myself. I never went back -- and probably should have reported her. At the time, I was in the first year of recovery after knee surgery -- which the teacher was aware of. At 50, with 40+ years of dance and 20+ years of yoga, I know my body.
We need to recognize and call out the bad, poorly trained and inappropriate yoga teachers.
3
Geez. I guess this is what happens if we think of yoga as a means to display showy contortions of the body - if that's what you want, honestly, get into acrobatics, not yoga.
All of this is quite unsettling -- manufactured yoga meant for business -- studios, yoga pants, and instagram.
Yoga means union. Union of what, one might ask.. Union of the mind and body, of the individual soul with a larger being - god, spirit, universe, call it whatever you'd like. It is a journey into the self. You could write an essay on this and it still wouldn't suffice.
People are at different levels of awareness, and if someone's struggling with an asana, it means they are not yet at the level required. It's about mind over body. In this case, verbal instructions are enough. There is NO need for touch. I repeat, there is NO need for touch.
There will be a need for adjustments if you want to master a complicated asana in a jiffy. But if you believe that yoga is a journey into the self, you'd know that that journey will take time. Time that only you can decide. And that is why here we start with pranayams; connecting with the breath, to understand where you are. Only then can you build on that. anything else is just hogwash.
As an ardent practitioner of yoga, i know people who have taken 4 months just to get their breathing right.
If you think that's a waste of time, then -- and i say this with all humility -- you are not ready to take up yoga.
28
Totally agree. This is posturing and not yoga! Breath and asanas go together, and if you touch a person you interfere in their breathing rhythm which arguably interferes with the practice itself. All the instruction one has encountered over the years of intermittent yoga practice has been verbal, and gently delivered so as to not interfere in the concentration it takes to keep breath and asana in harmony.
The video made me cringe!
7
@dsi I agree with the essence of your statement completely. I also would submit that it takes many lifetimes to master one breath ;) The West treats yoga like one big workout factory - for the most part.
There are tremendous exceptions though, and within those exceptions lies my disagreement. In both Ashtanga and Iyengar Yoga adjustments are used, and if they are used by an intelligent teacher, not an automaton, then the touch moves with the breath, with the progress of the student.
I had one Ashtanga teacher tell me my body was "wrong" in a pose. I never went back; it was violating. My primary teachers adjust me all the time to my profound gratitude, trust and benefit. And I say this with all humility: I don't think I've met anyone ready "to take up yoga;" we just begin where we are... Cheers.
1
I’m speechless ....
9
Mr. Kest appears to me as the kind of personality that is into his performance and control, without a basic genuine respect that would make adjustments acceptable.
37
The fact that he repeatedly put his hand on the woman's head, as he was responding to her comment about asking students first if they want to be touched is so beyond the beyond. This guy is on an enormous power-trip. Stay very far away from his class.
signed- a 20 year Veteran Yoga Teacher
80
So right. To use her as an example by touching her head; he was trying to diminish her.
I’ve been teaching Yoga since the late seventies. This guy is clueless. And.....he’s got gobs of women following him. Sickening.
22
@MaryTheresa I noticed that, too. So condescending. I wonder how this guy became so popular/successful when he treats students this way.
14
I’m trying to imagine Jonny Kest “manipulating” a male student in the same ways as depicted in the video, and I’m having a hard time. I also wonder if Mr. Kest would ask before laying a hand on such a male student.
I’m sure that I’m not alone in thinking that his behavior, and attitude, are sexist, male privileged, entitled.
75
I started yoga in the 80s with Iyengar yoga, probably the most hands-on type around. Back then the kind of touch administered by Iyengar's most senior teachers were harsh: abrupt slaps between the shoulder blades, a rough wrench of the ribcage or a shove of the medial side of the foot to widen your stance. Male teachers were less common and most of were mindful when adjusting.
It wasn't until years later after I left California that I fully realized the cultish and abusive nature of this style of hatha yoga.
Now every teacher does adjustments and my how complex and creative they've gotten. No wonder students think twice about them and object. The answer I think is better teaching training and less of the hands-on stuff.
15
How do women yoga instructors handle the issues of posture adjustment and consent? Women make up the majority of yoga instructors. How do they run their classes in what is almost exclusively a female space with women making up 75% or more of all yoga practitioners as well? Are some of them as obnoxious and egotistical, as full of themselves as Jonny Kest here? Are they handsy? I do know a few from years of taking yoga class and can tell you that some of them are. Perhaps they have internalized some of the harmful, boundary violating philosophies of the male gurus who founded the various branches of yoga - the men who are who are getting their deserved comeuppance.
Ms. Rosman has I feel, taken the easy journalistic play and fit her piece into the larger culture critique of “the patriarchy”. Maybe a more interesting angle would have been to explore how women are creating a new athletic space for themselves in yoga studios, negotiating what is most comfortable and right for them. Maybe this could have been a piece on a new culture form – the invention of a new yoga culture by women. Also of interest is how female instructors and students now deal with the few men who actually enter that space (and men have been actively marketed to by the various and sometimes quite nefarious yoga business interests). Yoga, we are told, is a necessary corrective to our more regressive tendencies, to our physical and spiritual rigidities…hmm. Sounds like a bit of chauvinism. But I digress.
1
@brooklyn rider Unfortunately women are driving this narrative as well, I’ve been told by female teachers that I need to “get over it” , “do the work to allow it”, and that “touch is a beautiful gift that they refuse to stop giving”.
It’s all coming from the same place, the same toxic, cult-driven madness that just isn’t yoga at all. I refuse to go to two other local studios because they adjust, shove, shame, and more, and there isn’t one male teacher at either of them. At my own studios, my teachers would never do this, and we learn trauma-informed methods in my training program. There’s so many on the wrong path though.
10
Yoga is a journey into awareness of what’s going on in your body and mind. When you ask beginners where they are feeling a particular posture they will often say ‘everywhere ‘. As the months and years of practice go by, they gradually begin to get in touch with their bodies and minds. I think the teacher’s job is to observe, suggest adjustments and wait for the student to respond. Hands on adjustments like those shown are all about the teacher, and in the process of getting in touch with the mind we are also trying to eliminate the ego. Mr Kest could make that his intention.
13
Male teacher. Female students. Power differential. Male teacher proposing Q in a way that takes ZERO responsibility for that reality. Makes me sick to watch it.
35
@Janice Gates I SO agree. And all those women seated on the floor with Kest hovering over them. It was grotesque. When I began watching the segment, I was kind of rooting for Kest to be a good guy, but was appalled by how condescending and dismissive of the women's concerns he was. And his wife defending him like that. It was all so nauseating.
22
@LK Perfectly said. Thank you. It has been really difficult for me to read some of the comments on here. The simple truth of yours is wonderful.
1
Yes Jonny, there is a "real answer"- let the student make the call. Because you're right, some will feel bubbles of joy and some will be uncomfortable with the adjustments. There's no way you can know. But it's gonna mean changing the your own behavior and "culture" to one that's more flexible and open. What's happened since you started 30 years ago is #metoo. Evolve.
35
Religion manipulates people in ways that play on their outsider status. We know better Just have faith.
I see the same thing in the yoga cult. A cult is a cult.
11
@Drew While I agree that yoga can–in certain circumstances–be cult–like, placing a blanket generalization on a practice that I, and many others, have found to be profoundly beneficial to our well-being comes across as profoundly uninformed.
2
Does Kest perform the “Diaper Change” with men? If so, how many of them punch him?
37
Sounds like yoga needs a Pelaton moment. Practice at home and stay away from the touchy teachers. Big business opportunity for SoftBank! Seriously, just call the teachers out, leave a detailed bad review online, and go to another class. There are tens of thousands of teachers out there to choose from, and the majority are not perverts with 200-hour teaching certificates.
5
What is this touching business? Yoga is done individually without the need of another person touching you. This whole thing of touch-assistance in a yoga class has gotten far too creepy. ...Do your yoga at home--it's just you and the mat.
Yoga Dave
8
I guess you didn't get your journalism degree from Northwestern!
1
Yet another manifestation of narcissistic abuse. I think the simple answer is for women to take yoga classes from women and to actively boycott teachers like Kest. He embodies white male privilege: the assumption that his perspective is higher and wiser; he does not fully listen to the women in this class who objected to his approach; and there is a passive-aggressive denial of the women’s experience. Gaslighting in yoga clothes. I have taken yoga classes from men on a few occasions, and honestly I find their motives to be questionable. I would not take a yoga class from a man any more than I would go to a male gynecologist. There is an inherent imbalance of power and there is the bottom-line fact that men are dogs. I don’t care how enlightened someone claims to be. I’ve been in a kundalini yoga class with a male teacher who very visibly paid more attention to the most attractive women in the class. And the vast majority of people who attend yoga classes are women. You do the math.
15
He’s got Narcissistic Abuser written all over him.
22
Here's a clearer answer:
I began yoga in Aspen, Summer of 1969. I traveled to India over the next 11 years learning yoga, which means "union" in spirit and mind by balancing the glandular systems in the body, creating a space to connect with a larger energy, the spiritual internet of knowledged.
Back in the USA, I taught the teachers.
At no time, as in never, zero, a time that did not exist, did I need to touch a student. Verbal suggestions, if phrased correctly, achieved the results needed to teach correct alignment.
Touching is way out of alignment, ethically and a complete abuse of power on any teacher's part.
There is no other way to put this boundary crossing, mostly sexual in nature.
Even having these discussions only serves to semi-normalize the ugly thought that touching is ok.
May I rape you? Yes. (Asking first in an uneven power student-teacher environmont doesn't create equality).
Just don't.
25
@Cliff Cowles I have been raped.
This is not accurate, and serves, again to take power away from women and men who are trying to heal.
Some victims of rape cannot be touched.
Some can.
And proper adjustments do not lead one out of alignment, this is simply a basic falsehood.
That's great you spent a lot of time in India.
So have lots of other senior teachers. And the good ones have come away with vastly different ideas about adjustments, props, and touch in general.
I teach. When I ask a student about an adjustment, which I do know how to do because I am competent as a teacher, I am not asking to rape someone.
As a rape victim and teacher your comparison is truly unnecessary, wrong, and actually pretty violating.
1
Thank you Rachel. For those of us teaching people with balance issues, injuries, or a dissociative relationship with their bodies, well-intentioned, properly executed physical adjustments are extremely valuable for those that have given affirmative consent to receive them.
1
Watching the video was watching a mysogynist in action. His domineering stance, the docile women seated at his feet, the submissiveness of a person being "adjusted" genitals to genitals with this guy. He is creepy, and I'm glad the author spoke up. Women should br more vocal in establishing boundaries. As a man, if he put my rear on his lap as he did this woman, I'd break the pose immediately.
37
I’d feel like more than the pose, in this case.
I had a chiropractic adjustment from a “dr” like Kest when I moved to NY. Once and done!
3
Yes, Johnny, there is a "real answer"! You ask before you touch! It is simple, easy, straightforward, and, most of all, respectful of the person you are about to touch. You have no idea what that person might have experienced at some time in their life and asking them if you could touch them shows that you respect and will honor their wishes for what has happened to them in their life. No explanation is needed from them. In yoga, we are often told to honor and respect our own body so do not forget to honor and respect your student's body by asking you if you can touch them prior to touching them. In your class, you stated that that is a great point of discussion. Discussions are meant to learn from them by presenting new material to everyone. With so much research and information on PTSD, how can you not understand the importance of asking before touching? Is it so hard for you to change your practice, based upon this research and the discussion in your class, by asking privately and quietly when you approach someone "May I touch you"? Is your ego that big that you are so unwilling to make such a small change that can have such a huge impact on someone's life and emotional well-being?
38
@Karen I'm not sure how someone asking, "may I touch you?" helps. If you say, "yes", what are you consenting to? Don't you have to also specify where and how you are consenting to being touched? By saying "yes" are you consenting to the diaper change adjustment? Do you see how saying "yes, I want to be touched could be misconstrued by someone who was unscrupulous?
In fact, although the diaper change adjustment shown at the beginning of this video seems quite intimate, at no point is anything he does illegal or sexual assault. It is actually an adjustment similar to Thai yoga massage. I understand that some would feel uncomfortable and I respect that (so please spare me the accusations of being a misogynist). I also understand that are others who would enjoy being in that kind of on the edge position where there was a strong sense of trust that the edge would not be violated--much as one can feel in a massage. Those kinds of sensations can be marvelous.
I don't know Jonny Kest from Johnny Quest, but my impression was that he was staying on the trust side of that edge. Since we only have a snapshot of this adjustment, presented in its most salacious light for maximum shock effect, we really don't know the context or, importantly, the effect of the adjustment on the woman receiving it.
2
I am a 60 year old male who is a casual yoga participant (once a week). Watching the video made me very uncomfortable. I have NEVER witnessed an adjustment that was any where close to that invasive or intimate. I have to wonder if Mr. Kest has ever done such an adjustment to a fellow male.
I have been in classes where participants were asked to place a hand on ones stomach if they didn't want to be touched.
Consent, consent, consent
48
Analogy - "hey teacher, we know that some people, actually a whole lot of people, are at risk of injuring their body when they receive that adjustment. Can you tell us a reason why you continue?" Teacher - "whatever, I've done it for a long time and some people like it. Sure one or two were injured, but that's not going to stop me from continuing."
My guess is that when faced with a discussion about risk of injury to what we call the physical body, there would be a different response than we saw here, but sadly I have witnessed the same from teachers ignoring risk to physical body.
24
The person most in need of sensitive, constructive teaching in that room seems to be Mr. Kest. For years he's behaved a certain way without guidance to understand the ramifications. So now the confusion seems to be buried so deeply that he says "there's not a real answer" as if with certainty. Some might say, the answer should be obvious - but there's no such thing as universal obviousness. Hence "education." As the voices of the harmed are finally emerging, we're learning that on this issue there's plenty of room for education among people - overwhelmingly men, as we know - who assume positions of power. Publicized lawsuits definitely have an important role in curbing unacceptable behavior generally. They don't address the core confusion, though.
13
I have been touched during yoga a couple of times by man and woman instructors. The touches were a slight reminder to align properly during a pose and weren't considered sexual by me. However, I have witnessed some very questionable body pressing and other caressing that made me feel uncomfortable just watching. My intuition knew better of this. You could sense the woman becoming tense as she was being "adjusted" by the male instructor. That being said, it is mostly male instructors that I observed performing the more aggressive adjustments. In my opinion, a good instructor can make the class feel relaxed and safe by utilizing voice instructions to a struggling student. By the way, Ashtanga yoga studios is where I witnessed the most unusual touching of women. I practice at home these days. Yoga studios are strange places to me.
14
I’m sorry to hear that. You should seek out a Yogafit trained instructor. We are trained to be inclusive and sensitive.
As a straight male who has trained with professionals across a variety of activities (boxing, golf, skiing, personal training, physical therapy, stretching and yoga) I am very comfortable with the level of "touching" I've experienced with professional trainers-- be they male or female. Out of necessity, the touching can be relatively intimate at times; e.g., golf swings, close-in boxing, stretching.
That said, I have had the misfortune of having one male instructor "correct" (perhaps "probe" is a better word) my form and (worse) require his class to participate in the groin-to-groin stretching described in this piece. Despite occurring over a decade ago, I clearly remember how offensive the whole experience was.
There are boundaries that should never be crossed. And, the unwanted, inappropriate touching (i.e., civil battery) can and does occur across gender lines.
21
Observing a person exerting power over others -
Stand over a person you want to control
Touch the person right after they have brought up the idea that touch might not be appropriate (think about the audacity or the mindlessness of this!)
Put your hand on that person's head while you talk to the others in the room
Then switch the conversation away from your behaviour to a related hot-topic
Then (pretend to)act as a facilitator
Then tell everyone that you are just going to continue doing what you do, regardless of their conversation.
72
This is an annoying article for a few reasons. Yes, he was inappropriate. It however, was not because of his use of his body, it was the lack of consent. The way the wrote it came off like he was actively being indecent due to places his adjustments were and I'd disagree. From the descriptions how he aligned them makes sense. The issue here is that he never asked. He went right into others space, didn't offer any room for rebuttal. The narrative shouldn't become "don't let a yoga instructor touch you bc they will do so inappropriately" moreso I wish it read towards what it looks like to have trauma informed courses, consent cards, a voice in a space on a mat there to serve you. Most frustrating though, is that the article makes point that in attempting to find a story, they stopped being a journalist and simply engaged and reported what they experienced in one space at one time. I wish they highlighted the work being done to combat this practice. Or did any research to studios or teachers making a point to avoid this & offer more to the yoga community. If I read this before experiencing yoga for myself, as a rape survivor, I probably would never try it. But in the same breathe, yoga has helped me heal. As an instructor I take it upon myself to make it a safe space and I know I'm not the only one. I just wish she offered contrast to the negative here. So that those reading could benefit from such a sad reality in this community. There are people doing the work. The right way.
3
@Rose Watch the documentary.
1
As a journalist, I appreciate this 'story behind the story'. As an occasional yoga practitioner (and a man) I've never been bothered by adjustments, or even the little 'encouragement touches' that some teachers provide -- I've certainly never felt any sense of invasion.
That said, I've seen male teachers lavish extra attention on attractive female students countless times, to the point that it's a running joke amongst students and many teachers.
The response of the teacher you describe, basically, Oh I never ask for consent, betrays the prevailing culture in classes.
That culture might be a holdover or echo of earlier times when teachers like Pattabhi Jois (or more recently, Bikram?) imposed a strict master-student relationship that extended as far as a sort of 'droit du seigneur' especially where devoted female students were concerned.
12
Kest is inappropriate and patronizing to the point of misogyny. Maybe we can take a quick poll. Who believes Kest frequently gives this adjustment to men?
As a former yoga instructor, I had the good sense to infer that if an adjustment made one student uncomfortable, it might make others feel that way and those students might not feel they could tell me. So, I found other ways to teach and slowly began to rely on verbal cues and description.
30
Yoga is in need of regulation, but first we'd need to agree on what 'yoga' is. That one small word refers to all manner of spirituality, physical exercises and yes, manipulation and control. Add to that teachers that we put on pedestals and alleged spiritual gurus, and you get fertile ground for psychological and physical abuse. Although I owned a yoga studio for years, I have since ditched the glamour of 'yoga' for the simplicity of stretching.
2
I have been teaching Mysore style Ashtanga (the method of Pattabhi Jois) style for 18 years-
I always ask first, and again, through the years- often with a gesture of touch and the words "is this ok". People change or are not inclined to be handled. I offer them a regular chance to say no. Even with my longest and most familiar students. It's not simply about me and what I think is right for them.
Humans don't always want or need to be touched. Or even talked to. We build up a trust between us over time. Success in yoga is not hinging on my "adjustment". Physically support is predetermined by a general respect for our individual domaines.
The idea that a teacher (a dubious title when considering yoga as a whole) is capable of physically or otherwise, bringing a person out of their personal limits and into some revelation is in conflict with the understanding that the physical is a temporal illusion and the result comes from long established actions germane to the individual (as a soul) . The teacher is there to offer support while this process takes place. We don't cause anything.
An issue with yoga teachers is the unchecked precedent of the need to continually establish their role. This is mainly due to the commodification of yoga, eg. the job of a yoga teacher, the work for which they are being compensated. This leads to all the outlandish poses being taught, the acquisition of postures, injuries, celebrity, clothes, workshops etc.
26
Derrow was spot on. But many of the women appeared apologetic, laughing from nervousness (?)....Kest kept repeating the question: How do you deal with this? Yet, he didn't appear to want to accept the answer he was given more than once. BEFORE you touch someone you ask. Period. Or you allow people to have a sign on the mat, which precludes them from being touched. He clearly ignore the response and pretended there was NO answer - maybe because he didn't like the answer he was given. Women - STAND UP for yourselves! For heaven's sakes!
53
"There's not a real answer" ???
I beg to differ, Jonny.
If one woman told you she felt "bubbly" and another told you she felt "violated", there seems to be a clear answer: You touched a woman without her clear consent and she felt violated.
Also, because you are the class leader, and evidently have some fame and clout as a Yoga guy, there is a clear power imbalance ... And it shows in discussion with the women. They were all working hard to be deferential to your (supposed) expertise, and yet all of them still were making clear objections to the lack of consent in your style.
If you are such a great teacher, you should be able to put some of that skill to finding a "real answer" to deal with the issues your students are raising.
60
@Celeste actually he touched two women without their consent... one did not feel violated... the other did. The tort is on him either way as consent should not be a post event agreement. I still dont get why its so hard to just ask...
2
A few things beg the question about about the Ashtanga school yoga:
Do the male instructors also practice these "adjustments" with male students?
Do female instructors also practice these touches with male students?
In the case of the male Ashtanga instructors, I can see how they might convince themselves that they are meeting a need of younger women for semi-erotic touch in a safe and trusting envrionment...
...and that the thought that an intimate touch could occur randomly or without prior consent in front of others might be perceived as titillating.
None of that excuses the sexualization of yoga, which this clearly seems to be.
13
@A The adjustments that Kest does are complicated. Most yoga teachers would not be capable of doing them. I've gotten adjustments from both male and female teachers. His style of flow (vinyasa) is unique. Clearly, those adjustments can be quite intimate and consent should be given.
1
I understand that you were at the right place at the right time. Were there any senior Asthanga or Vinyasa Flow Female teachers available to interview about this topic? Most of the students are female, so I'd think some of them must have made it to what you coined as "yogalebrities"? Their opinions were a glaring absence.
15
Well yes...you were the right person at the right time in the right place. I guess that equals luck. But it's not dumb; just the opposite. Hard work meeting opportunity. A great result!
15
Reporting is always about being very good and being lucky. And you have to go where the luck can strike.
5
I read the original article and was firmly on the side of, yeah, no touching please, at all, ever. But now after seeing this video, I actually feel differently. I used to take a yoga class with a big manly man yogi. His class was a class of women, almost entirely. He was very hands on. I remember him flipping me on his back, with my arms pinned down--no warning. I screamed repeatedly until he put me down. You know what? Maybe I needed that. We're pretty uptight in the West and many of us are so disconnected from our bodies or have all sorts of hangups about them because we live in a society that is weirdly puritanical and wanton about sex and bodies, particularly women's bodies. You know, a body is just that in the end. A body. Maybe we need to loosen up a bit and walk the edge and feel all the things a body can feel, including pleasure, ecstasy, arousing. We consider those things so dangerous and it's clearly not helping us as a society. My yogi was a happily married man and had no designs on anybody. If you're someone with a history of trauma or sexual abuse them maybe go to a yoga class specifically designed for such people. The rest of us can use some shaking up and loosening up. It's probably why we needed yoga in the first place. All that repression and violence against the body leads to emotional and physical sickness.
7
@kim
So having boundaries and wanting people to respect them is now "puritanical."
I thought we'd moved past this.
18
@kim "The rest of us can use some shaking up and loosening up." - maybe that is for each person to decide for themselves, not for you to do so. And I DO NOT look to my yoga class or teacher as a way to get aroused! Telling people not to have "hangups" about their bodies is precisely how sexual abuse can occur - making people uncomfortable not only about what is happening, but also about speaking up about their discomfort.
Although is can be helpful to have someone making sure you are in a correct yoga position, asking before putting your hands on them is the only way to handle this.
28
@kim While I understand your intent, as a long-time yoga instructor with experience in the Astanga tradition, all that you wrote above is clearly NOT the way yoga teachers should behave with their students. The abuse perpetrated by Mr. Jois and countless other (mostly) male yoga teachers MUST stop.
13
It's also worth noting that, in addition to inappropriate touching, Krishna Pattabhi Jois injured a number of students over the years, and some are still suffering from Bell's Palsy, back, hip and shoulder pain, and other adversities resulting from his adjustments.
I can't thank you enough for bringing these issues into the light.
It's just amazing how an entire room of supposedly intelligent people will tolerate inappropriate behavior of the sort described in this article. Dare to speak the truth, even when it is unwelcome.
53
@C Moore Intelligence has nothing to do with it. It is about giving up your power to a supposed guru who knows all. It's a dynamic that's older than the hills.
I was shocked when I read the original article, but seeing the video is incredible. It’s all there. What a story you stumbled upon! Very good work. The guy practically gift wrapped it.
Another case of someone behaving outrageously in plain sight and therefore believing he was doing nothing wrong.
He even said that a student once reported feeling violated by an “adjustment.” And this footage was not from a hidden camera. Unbelievable.
34
I am an RYT200 and former yoga studio owner, and I find this a bit shocking.
As a male instructor, consent before doing adjustments in a class is automatic for me. Early in a class, while people are in child's pose and cannot see around the room, I ask for a show of hands of "anyone who would prefer to not receive an adjustment in their practice today. If your practice and your energy are calling you to not have other people in your space, as your instructor, I wish to honor that."
It's that simple. There is typically one, maybe two in about half of the classes I teach.
Students come to class with their life history. It could be physical challenges, old injuries, emotional trauma, addiction, or a combination of issues.
It is my job, to SERVE the students. It is my goal to meet them where they are, and help them have a practice that meets their needs.
72
Also, for newer people in my class that have “opted-in”, my adjustments are going to be much more oriented to neutral places, e.g., Pressing their extended hand into mine to find stability in tree pose. This builds trust, as does demonstrating an adjustment on one of my regular students ahead of time so others know what to expect. Properly stabilizing someone often requires I stand behind them. Explaining that and showing I what it looks like avoids retraumatizing people.
3
The Kest brothers have become "rockstars" of branded Yoga. It is no surprise that they are following in the footsteps of Patabi jois; wrapping ones body around another person to "teach" them the proper pose is one of the hall marks of PJ's Asthanga Yoga. What is surprising is that in this day and age when the discussion of permission and consent did come up in Mr. Kest's workshop, that he asserted that he does NOT do either. As a trained yoga teacher, it is clear to me that Mr. Kest's yoga is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I understand that this was a workshop for teachers to learn specifically how to give adjustments, but without prefacing it with a discussion of permission and consent, Mr. Kest is setting the stage for his followers to get in to big trouble. I am still astounded.
33
@Cat Never known a male yoga "rockstar" not to get in trouble with power plays on female students. John Friend, who created his own style of yoga based on Iyenger's method, comes to mind. The clues always seem to be there.
3
Let's do the math: the instructor is widely popular, he apparently makes no secret of his use of his "hands-on" adjustments -- it's even all over his websites and reviews. People sign-up, pay(!) and attend, doing so with full knowledge of his approach (or should have done their own due diligence). This therefore constitutes consent. The attitude being pushed here is akin to being shocked and offended after signing up for a sky-diving class only to find the instructor has the utter gall to ask you to jump out of an airplane.
16
@Celso Martins Your comments are a gross oversimplification of consent, issues around appropriate touching, and the power dynamics of teacher-student relationships. You - in writing - are basing your argument on what the instructor "apparently" does - your word. Teachers need to understand that all people have varying comfort levels with touching and be respectful of that. Clarifying and asking for permission before touching are an easy and respectful solution.
13
@Celso Martins RE: "The attitude being pushed here is akin to being shocked and offended after signing up for a sky-diving class only to find the instructor has the utter gall to ask you to jump out of an airplane."
It appears to be more like signing up for skydiving and then finding out it's a tandem jump in spandex, with the instructor behind you, and him having to grope to find the ripcord.
10
@Celso Martins i don't agree with your comparison. People can sign on for a class in which the instructor gives adjustments to you - I have many times myself - easily assuming that the range of adjustments given will fall within that which is usual in a yoga studio. The woman challenging Mr. Kest didn't say, "I would be upset if you ever touched any part of me during an adjustment." She said that she would be upset if someone touched her in that manner particularly without telling her that he was going to touch her in that manner. I have taken a lot of yoga classes and intensives over the years and I haven't been touched in the described manner. REgistering for a course doesn't mean you agree in advance to anything an instructor does. Registration does not equal blanket consent courts have found in hockey, a highly physical sport: you may be agreeing to body checks but you aren't agreeing to being punched in the face. Some things fall outside of the realm of reasonably anticipated physical interaction.
10
How can a yoga teacher NEVER think about nor communicate about any student's needs re touching?
Teacher training needs to teach this most vital fact: students should be asked and told about any touching.
Teachers also need to be not egotistical if or when a student objects to how they are being touched.
Sadly, students often say nothing because they don't want the teacher to regard them negatively. So they stay quiet, embarrassed, timid and maybe even frightened. Some won't return. I speak from experience.
Students need to be made comfortable discussing issues with the owner of the studio, as well as the teacher. Teachers often teach at various events and locations, so merely talking to owner won't stop questionable behavior.
I am never surprised reading about certain highly publicized and revered teachers being outed for their alleged activities (John Friend, Bikram, etc) because men will be men. Women will idolize and protect them.
At what point do women say, hands off? And stop idolizing these men who are hurting them and other women?
Part of the problem is our society doesn't value people who set limits. We tell each other to do so, but in reality, there's little validation and often shame and intimidation for those of us who do speak out.
NOW it's getting worse. The kind of behavior described here would definitely scare me away from yoga. Is this the message the yoga community wants to communicate?
Namaste sadly becomes meaningless in this environment.
14
I read your piece I watch the weekly and then I read this piece this morning I’ve been thinking about this all day. While you were struck by what just happened directly in front of you what I think is more interesting is that the conversation was opened. There were no definitive answers and Mr. Kest did not appear to require people to treat him deferentially. As a yoga teacher for more than 20 years I know that this conversation is not new. It has gone on for all those years, whether you were aware of it or not I cannot say. I encourage you to seek you some of these teachers to explore this conversation and it’s continuing evolution: Lilias Folan, Judith Hansen Lassiter, and Rodney Yee. I have studied with each of them as well as Jonny and would like to see the full range of teachers represented in this conversation.
12
@Lostin24 Mr. Kest did not "require" people to treat him deferentially, but the teacher-student dynamic has a built in power imbalance. Yes this is just one look at this important issue. But you can't criticize Ms. Rosman for not talking to every teacher YOU would like her to talk to - this is her investigative reporting. Most stories that are not book-length investigations are just snapshots of larger issues. Ms. Rosman is reporting on an issue. Other reporters and members of the yoga community are welcome to continue this conversation in their own stories and group discussions.
9
Thanks for writing this article. And I hope the students that have been assaulted or inappropriately touched will receive healing, and the perps punished.
FWIW, such behavior and actions is NOT common in traditional yoga. I've learned yoga with my parents in indian communities (in the US) and there was rarely any touching.
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As a long time yoga practicioner in various countries and various schools of yoga, a couple things come to mind. Boundaries, projections, intentions. In yoga the practice is focused on intentions. The intent of the student as all practicioners are lifelong students (yes the teachers too). Projections - of our own (ie the writers) perception of physical contact. From this can arise an assumption that all contact is of a sexual, or potentially sexual nature. Whether between instructors of same or different genders. Boundaries - of touch in general. Why is the focus of the article solely on mixed gender contact? In all of my years teachers have had varying degrees of contact with me, either with explicit consent or without. Male teachers as well as female teachers. At no time, not ever I have felt this contact to be of a sexual nature regardless of where or how hard/soft the contact was. If I've ever felt uncomfortable, it has provoked me to challenge my own thoughts on boundaries and question why I have them in the first place. How I might grow as an individual from better understanding this. And this now boils down to intent. IF the intent was for sexual stimulation, that would be evident in all sorts of behaviours by student and teacher. And clearly cannot ever be condoned. I do not deny that there is such a thing as sexual intended contact, obviously as abuse occurs in all walks of our lives.
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I have years of experience teaching 16-19 year olds (but not teaching yoga) in the UK. I was always aware, for my own protection as well as the pupils' comfort, what was permissible in physical contact with students.
The sincerity of his intentions is not the point here. From their point of view, pupils have every right to accuse him of crossing a boundary. He is complacent in dealing with the female student feedback -"I don't do that". If he thinks the spell would be broken by interrupting the adjustment to ask permission of an individual pupil just before he does it, why can't he announce and be specific about certain adjustments he intends to do before the lesson even begins? If this hasn't occurred to him, then after 30 years teaching it really ought to!
Most professionals will be aware of sexual abuses within their field of expertise. I taught piano for several years, which can be physical (you adjust pupil posture, hand position, and often the lesson takes place one-to-one in a sound-proofed room). I was very aware of the reports in the media of cases, some ending up in court, some leading to suicide, of music lessons where the boundaries had been ignored. Many of these incidents featured music teachers very highly regarded in their field.
The teacher would have known that the class was filmed. Does his failure to check himself show that his intentions were innocent? Maybe. I still think he crossed a boundary. It's not enough to intend no harm in what he does.
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As a practicing yogi and a long time fan of Ms. Rosman’s writing, all I can say is WOW - this is an incredible back story and both amazing and sad how it all unfolded on camera.
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