I find the need to pander to these fragile souls nauseating. If after 4 years(providing he isn't impeached) voters are stupid enough to vote for trump nothing the dems can do will change their minds.Pander to me and make me feel special or else I'll vote for trump doesn't seem like much of a political philosophy to me.
159
Honestly...being called 'libruhl' a lefty, a socialist, a feminazi, a sinner, a welfare user, snowflake or a b_tch by conservatives has pretty much steeled me against being nice to people with ugly mouths and less the nimble minds.
119
Reaction against political correctness is, indeed, the reason Trump won in 2016. But those who are in a rage because they have lost the cultural war should think twice before they vote for an amoral sociopath like Trump. The GOP has been seized by extremist Christians, which is the main reason it has become fascist (radical Christians also brought Hitler to power). And Trump not only doesn't believe in God, he has publicly ridiculed Jesus in the past. A Christian voting with passion for someone who has only disdain for Christ and what He stands for is the definition of madness.
I, the son of a truck driver/janitor in Michigan, was working class all my life. I, too, am pained by the "insufferably woke" among us. But that doesn't mean I have to vote for a demagogue whose mission is to carry out Vladimir Putin's goal of deconstructing the U.S. government. Mean-spirited revenge voting will only bring America down.
I have no sympathy for white, working class voters who want revenge. I listened to too many of them at the lunch table in my working days in Detroit factories. Democrats should focus on getting out the suburban vote in 2020. Trying to change the minds of those who passionately vote against their own self interests is a losing cause. Trump and his thuggish cronies have a slogan for 2020 that rubs in their fascist grip on America as a minority party: Get Over It. Democrats need to get over rageful, uninformed voters who only want revenge.
128
Amen, brother Tim.
32
This column infuriated me!
Multi-millionaire Barack Obama now telling us that we’re wrong? (Yes that’s him as a youngster in my avatar)
I’m currently living in a dilapidated mobile home in rural white Georgia working as an MD for VISTA at $1700/month because I believe in helping the underserved.
Yet I get Trump 2020 and Trump 2024 (yes) banners flown in my face from Ram 3500 pickup trucks that nearly blow me and my 2006 Prius off I-20. Confederate flags and truck nuts adorn these trucks too.
I work the food banks using most of my paycheck to stock the shelves. I drive folks to the dentist or to specialists. I had ONE Obama/Biden 2012 sticker on my Prius and when I came out of my daily radiation for breast cancer (What a wonderful 3 years I’ve had after becoming a widow) I saw two guys w MAGA caps taking bats to my Prius in broad daylight. The Police Chief whose mother I cared for at her home when she died of cancer, told me it was MY fault for having that “N......’s” sticker on my car.
All day, every day I hear the worst racism. Right now the GA governor is trying to make work necessary for getting Medicaid. I’m working AGAINST that as I see folks who can’t work yet need health care coverage. Yet I am blasted by these white people for “giving our tax dollars to THOSE people.” If I try to explain that it’s THEM that’s being hurt, they get tight-lipped and angry at ME!
So Timothy? Tell your story walking! I’m sick of being the villain just because I’m a Democrat!
182
It’s hard for me to believe that Trump voters stick by him because “liberals are annoying.” My guess is that many of those voters are actually quietly racist and xenophobic.
104
Translation: everyone hates self-righteous prudes who want to ram their agendas down our throats.
47
Obama was born in Kenya...he's a Muslim...
And what about the "Death Panels?" Benghazi? Pizza Gate? The "War on Christmas?" That Hillary Clinton is a murderer....That the "main stream media", especially the "failing New York Times" is "fake news"
Until Progressives learn to treat me with dignity, to respect my beliefs as legitimate differences of opinion..... I'm with Trump.
18
A sixty-something white male author penning this column in the NY Times is pretty much peak privilege.
35
My brother is woke. He's woke to Alex Jones and the idea that Michelle Obama is actually a man. He's woke to the idea that climate change is a hoax. He's woke to Holocaust denial and the fact that we landed on the moon.
What makes him and those like him less insufferably woke than liberals?
82
Let's keep it simple. Trumper's are stupid, and as Ron White so memorably reminds us, "You can't fix stupid."
Herewith endith the lesson.
70
Yes. Thank you. I am 27 and I work in academia, and I have heard so many of my peers write off all Trump voters, even all Republicans--heck, even all people who marginally disagree with them--as dumb, racist idiots.
Democrats need to consider that there is more behind Trump's popularity than a bunch of dumb idiots. There are real people who are struggling, who are poor, and who are so sick of being told to "check their privilege" by those of us who are actually privileged enough to have higher degrees. My fellow millennials, especially, need to calm down.
63
@Steve Dumford
The Republican base has been voting against its own best financial interests for decades, believing that their real “best interest” concerns heaven and their salvation, and that the anti-labor, anti-We The People, pro-monarchist Republican Party is the Party of God. Now, propagandized for decades by FOX & Limbaugh etc., to see liberals as the devil’s spawn, they’re complaining that their life’s plight is the fault of “Demorats” and “Libtards,” and they inexplicably see the ever-raging juvenile 73 year old ever-victimized, ever-whining, defrauding, cheating, grifting, pathologically-lying, mob-taught dictator wannabe as their savior. Meanwhile, Trump’s evangelical warriors inflict their Bronze Age religious beliefs on We The People through the courts being stacked by McConnell and Trump with their own regressive kind, and we’re being told it’s our job to fix the problem? Seriously?
47
The Republican base has been voting against its own best financial interests for decades, believing that their real “best interest” concerns heaven and their salvation, and that the anti-labor, anti-We The People, pro-monarchist Republican Party is the Party of God. Now, propagandized for decades by FOX & Limbaugh etc., to see liberals as the devil’s spawn, they’re complaining that their life’s plight is the fault of “Demorats” and “Libtards,” and they inexplicably see the ever-raging juvenile 73 year old ever-victimized, ever-whining, defrauding, cheating, grifting, pathologically-lying, mob-taught dictator wannabe as their savior. Meanwhile, Trump’s evangelical warriors inflict their Bronze Age religious beliefs on We The People through the courts being stacked by McConnell and Trump with their own regressive kind, and we’re being told it’s our job to fix the problem? Seriously?
10
Like Ben Shapiro's speech last night at Stanford.
While Shapiro was literally shredding the AltRight Nazi's in his speech...the woke AltLeft in the audience determined they had had enough and started chanting "Hey Hey..Ho Ho..Ben Shapiro has got to go."
You can't make this stuff up.
27
You can't fix stupid.
17
I'm a conservative who generally votes Democratic because I'm not racist, uneducated, or a billionaire.
One needn't be "woke" to recongize racism and ignorance.
After decades of hearing Republicans screeching about how non-Christian will go to hell, blacks will rob our houses and ruin us with their welfare demands, and women belong in the kitchen, I have no interest in coddling them.
I have yet to hear a kind person -- of any political and socioeconomic background -- complain about how liberals are mean to them. The projection and utter lack of self-awareness is fascinating and sad.
No wonder they love Trump so much.
44
I'd really like to agree with you, Mr. Egan, but Republicans have made a pretty good political living getting much of the white working class to vote against its own best economic, educational, employment, etc. self-interest since Nixon first played the race card in 1968.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” Senator Lyndon B. Johnson, 1960, as quoted by Bill D. Moyers, November 13, 1988 Washington “Post”. Today, LBJ could add Hispanic and immigrant to "colored man".
Those That Have have always sought to keep Those That Don't Have fractious and at each other's throat. The idea of a united Those That Don't Have is a nightmare for Those That Have.
35
I am a while female in my early 70's -- I do not "look" Jewish or have an identifiably "Jewish" name, but I am. I have too often heard people I have been around (many are/were professionals) make anti-semetic comments, thinking I am one of them ...I am to others, a "feminazi" and/or a "libtard."
I will vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is...and I have very little sympathy for those who seem to want to be applauded for their smallness but who also too often have no room in their lives or their hearts for others not exactly like them.
38
So the swing voters are people who will shoot themselves in the foot, undermine democracy, and make a coarse lying crook President just to spite those from whom they sense a condescending attitude? It's kinda hard not regard those who would do that with some condescension. Vicious cycle.
43
There is a wing of my family that believes we should respect the President, regardless of what is happening now. Some were upset that POTUS was booed at a baseball game.
Unfortunately, because of their respect for the President, they remain blind to ANY attack on him, regardless of the facts. They will never be convinced. IMHO they key is GOTV of those who don't want a criminal in the WH.
9
Finally done wisdom! Democrats care only about the "poor and downtrodden", and forget that it's hard-working Americans and our Lord Jesus Christ who've made this country great. Taking our hard earned money and giving it to the mob will make us all poor.
6
Please let’s stop talking about these people. They are hopeless. Let’s move on.
34
I agree with the content of your article, however I wonder if your sister agreed to be identified. The article would have had the same impact without knowing she was your “sibling”.
9
I’m always amazed when ignorant, self-righteous people accuse others of being ignorant and self-righteous. The lack of any sort of awareness — of self, of the world, of the place of politics in your life, or of the obvious irony at work here — is appalling.
And no matter who you are, it all will always come back to hurt you.
15
I'm an independent voter or swing voter or whatever you call it. I went to my tennis club this morning, and the sign by the bathroom door instead of "Women" said "Self-Identified Women". What is that? Am I going to run into a naked man who claims to be a woman in the locker room? Thank you but I'd prefer to live in Trumpworld - and I can't stand Trump - than in that woke world of 50 different genders, or whatever you call it.
25
I travel frequently to San Francisco and some of the woke virtue signalers react to my home state of Arizona as some sort of racist backwater tainted with some kind of red state cooties.
In response to their self-satisfied arrogance, I point out that the president of their vaunted University of California system is Janet Napolitano, a former governor of Arizona. And that three state-wide positions, superintendent of schools, the Secretary of State (AZ’s equivalent of a Lt. Governor) and the US Senate all went Democratic in 2018. Also, Senator, Kyrsten Sinema is openly bi-sexual and that the current Democratic senatorial candidate, Mark Kelly, is ahead of the polls against the appointed GOP Senator. (None of whom won or will win with a “woke” agenda).
I also point out that Arizona is a swing state that could prove decisive in 2020. So, if they want to win the election, maybe they could stop patting themselves on the back about living in the Bay Area and, instead, figure out a less obnoxious way to help us all out so that we can win this.
28
I'm a middle-class teacher. Hardly "elite." But I admit to having no patience for Trump voters at this point.
I can sympathize to some degree with people who feel that "woke" and "cancel" culture has gone overboard, that's there's too much virtue-signaling and bellowing out there on the web.
But when I look at Trump's incompetence, his narcissism, his hucksterism, his obvious pathologies and raving stupidity, I cannot understand how any sane person could vote for him, never mind continue to support him. I admit it: it's become virtually impossible for me to find a shred of commonality with those of my fellow American who voted for this maniac. And I can no longer find the psychic space to contemplate what might have motivated them or whether there is some shred of legitimacy behind what seems to me like a gleefully destructive and vindictive impulse on their part to cheer on a racist and misogynist troll.
50
How about the insufferably unwoke?
Namecalling doesn't help, nor does blaming victims.
What you perceive as insult and condescension is subjective and possibly simplistic. In the main, the more compassionate are more ready to listen, and I sure as heck don't see much compassion coming from Republicans. Their Christianity looks more like golden calf worship and telling other people what to do with their bodies, demonizing poverty, and blindness to the planet and human equality in the eyes of what ought to be their notion of god.
Yeah, condescending. I am not just worried, I'm afraid of people who regard high-powered weaponry as a god-given right, and are collecting armories to defend their opinions if they don't win. And vote cheating? The list goes on and on ...
19
Please point to any condescending “woke” thing Warren or Sanders have said about those mythical swing voters. You can’t. Because they haven’t. Because when those Iowa Trump voters say “political correctness is out of control I can’t vote for Warren” what they really mean is “no thanks I won’t vote for a woman”. Let’s stop making excuses. Staying home, or voting for some obscure third party candidate - those can be acts of protest against an establishment. Voting for Donald Trump is not. It is impossible to do so and not be a racist, because you are voting for racist politics. It is impossible to do so and not be sexist, because you’re literally voting for putting rapists on the Supreme Court. You can tell that to your Trump voting friends who surely will feel incredibly insulted - sorry not sorry.
38
Articles like this make me pace the room for a while. They too perpetuate an idiotic trope with headlines that all liberals are bad, are woke, are snotty whatever. So we have supercilious judgement on one side, and vindictive baseness on the other.
To top it off an entire party has decided that the rules which govern the land don't apply to them and their propaganda has been very carefully and skillfully crafted. While I respect all jobs and hard work - I cannot have respect for people who will abandon everything to worship such a venal and ignorant god. Trump and his cronies are laughing all the way to the bank and stomping on the backs of people who love him the most.
29
Why is it easy for people to understand why black conservatives vote Democratic while finding it impossible to understand modest white voters vote R?
The Democratic party has kicked white working class out with it's gotcha political correctness and slurs like Deplorable.
People won't vote for a party they think despises them.
21
No one who has two brain cells left to rub together could look at Trump and Hillary and conclude Trump was the way to go.
This is true on any subject, issue, level.
Further, by Election Day '16 everyone knew the character of the man, that being a mobbed up sociopathic liar who would sell his mother to a Texas brothel if the price was right.
There is no excuse for voting for Trump in 16.
The only path to reconciliation on the matter is to vote for anyone but Trump in 20.
20
Do they vote for Trump because they support his policies?
Or because it's the only way to get back at those who the right wing media tells them hates them and thinks they're deplorable? As revenge on those who they're told want to take away their guns, outlaw their religion, welcome illegals who take their jobs and promote abortion etc.?
I doubt for the majority it's the policies.
15
Mr. Egan: Mike Bloomberg obviously read your piece :)
2
This piece dishonestly conflates certain kinds of social media/comment section discourse with the platform and campaigns of the Democratic presidential contenders. In making these unsupported generalizations about Democratic politicians, the author seems to be repackaging the narrative of Steven Bannon, Fox News and the campaign of Donald Trump, but for a worrying Democratic readership.
The paragraph about political correctness goes right into how supposedly sneer-y Elizabeth Warren is. If you're so certain of her offenses to the sensitivities of "real Americans," give examples! Are her policies harmful to struggling white workers? Has she belittled their precious beliefs or "canceled" these people? When? How?
Or are you saying Elizabeth Warren and the Democratic Party are somehow responsible for the mean things lefties say in comment section battles?
The cliched language of this lament is revealing... It's always "political correctness," "woke culture," "sneering," and "looking down their noses."
Have you ever noticed how vague such language is? That's because it's easier to make Democrats seem bad if you don't give specific examples of the kinds of things they supposedly look down on.
If you said, this Walmart worker would vote for Democrats and stands to benefit from their policies, but she thinks gay marriage is Satanic and black people get too many handouts, and will therefore be forced to vote for Trump, then we'd know what we were dealing with.
34
There’s not one sentence in this piece that identifies which Democrats exactly - which Democrats *running for office* - are being so insufferably woke. The closest it comes is mentioning Elizabeth Warren, who makes a point of her very real homespun credentials every chance she gets.
I’m so tired of Republicans screaming that Democrats are far-out lefty elitist loons, while Dems throw up their hands and wax neurotic about “acceptable” positions. The reality is that no Dem’s policy or folksy bona fides are ever going to be enough, because it’s not really about any of that anymore, it’s about the GOP weaponising whatever it can.
Republicans can be as insulting, dismissive and threatening about liberal ideas as they want - they are literally out there calling liberals traitors and threatening civil war if minimal gun control gets enacted - but heaven forbid a Democrat even makes an argument to rural communities that they can improve rural healthcare, but hey we should also accept that other people’s bodies or their choice of partners are their own business, because that’s somehow being “insufferably woke” or contemptuous of conservatives. The double standard is sickening.
37
The arrogance condescension of the ultra's (they are not "elites") is unbounded.
Anyone who doesn't believe as they do is stupid, or being manipulated by Fox news.
It is incomprehensible to them that there are people with values and morals that are different than theirs, that might be just as valid.
13
The arrogance condescension of the ultra's (they are not "elites") is unbounded.
Anyone who doesn't believe as they do is stupid, or being manipulated by Fox news.
It is incomprehensible to them that there are people with values and morals that are different than theirs, that might be just as valid.
3
The arrogance and condescension of the ultra's (they are not "elites") are unbounded.
Anyone who doesn't believe as they do is stupid, or being manipulated by Fox news.
It is incomprehensible to them that there are people with values and morals that are different than theirs, that might be just as valid.
3
Methinks thou dost protest too much, Tim. I don't see any evidence in your article for any of the current Democratic candidates being "insufferably woke." Is evidence free argument being adopted by a columnist who generally presents arguments that are well-supported and based on facts. Are you "woke" to the other side's way of arguing? I'm disappointed; I think I'll have to go take a nap....
4
I do think that the "woke" movement is just about the stupidest thing that anybody has come up with in the last 50 years (and that's saying a lot). But I also think that people who can't see or think beyond their own condition or passed their own resentment are also stupid. They hate the way things are but do nothing to change them? Seriously, they will vote against their interests and well being because somebody didn't tell them they were the greatest people on Earth in the greatest nation on Earth? As my mother use to say "don't cut off your nose to spite your face"
9
More right-wing tripe invented by Fox and fed incessentently to 40% of the public whose interests aren't at all advanced by the disgrace who sits in the oval office. I notice the picture targets Warren. The right-wing, fascist coalition, along with their billionaire funders, are terrifed of this woman. And there's a good reason why. She's got their number big time. That's what this Op-Ed is all about - scaring more with a non-existant fiction about someone who, for a change, is fed up with the fraud and the massive wealth gap that'll destroy this country.
14
Interesting how carefully vetted the comments section is. Can't let anyone actually criticize the Democratic Party I guess...would interfere with the us v. them dynamic. Divide and Conquer.
10
For every person put off by over-wokeness, there's at least one person put off by neo-Nazis. The rest of us look at the actual candidates, not their would-be proxies, and make our decisions accordingly.
7
The lord helps those who help themselves. You have to be active in your own rescue. Pick a cliche, but I'm thoroughly tired of being lectured about how I have to be nicer to these people who are too stupid to grab the lifeline. Vote GOP, lose your health insurance, suffer. What exactly am I supposed to do about it? Pretend you're not too stupid or stubborn to help yourself? I'm already willing to vote for someone who is going to raise my taxes and not spend a NY minute worrying about whether I'm OK. Smarten up hypothetical voter.
10
This column has sat wrong me with all day.
You know what's insufferable? Racists. Homophobes. Sexists. Cheaters.
Liars.
Denialists. Haters.
Tribalists.
Children in cages, that is insufferable.
Unkindness at our borders.
Open warfare on minorities.
People not having health benefits.
Women having to fight for basic health care.
College being out of reach.
Trashing the Constitution.
Aligning ourselves with despots.
Turning our back to our allies.
Using the White House to get rich.
Putting our family members in positions they don't deserve.
Using the power of the government for your personal gain.
Conspiring with another government to destabilize our elections.
Using power to be cruel to others.
Laughing at people in pain and calling it strength.
Excluding others.
Being unkind.
Being selfish.
Prioritizing money over values.
Aligning your moral code with what best benefits you.
Dividing a country, states, friendships and families.
Creating chaos and confusion for sport.
Hijacking an entire news-channel for propaganda and calling it news.
Purposely misinforming the people you are supposed to serve.
Sorry if that makes me an angry woke voter. Color me guilty.
48
And by "insufferably woke," you mean people who are sick of excusing racism, homophobia, and xenophobia, and flat out greed. Make no mistake, anyone who voted for Trump falls into one of those categories, whether they identify that way or not. If you vote for someone who rages against brown and black people, you are a racist. If you vote for someone who turns back rights for LGBTQ people, you are homophobic. If you vote for someone because you agree with their draconian stance on immigration, you are xenophobic. If you voted to throw those who are less fortunate than you under the bus to get a tax break, you are greedy. You may not like it, but it's true. And can I just say how incredibly obnoxious it is for you, a white guy, to use the term "woke" as a pejorative? Do you not realize you are co-opting that from people of colour who are trying (and obviously not succeeding) to get white people to start acknowledging historic wrongs? Stop excusing people who voted for Trump. Why is it up to us to woo them? I don't see republicans trying to mollify progressives by becoming more caring.
21
It's exhausting being told that because I'm white, working class, and Midwestern, I can't possibly be progressive. Guess what, NYT? There are plenty of progressives even in red states. Stop telling us we can't catch up to the rest of the planet because we're stupid. We know it's because the only color that matters in this country is cash green.
13
A distinctly different view presented by Bill Maher when Trump was just a prospect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqVCvbtfkho
3
Wouldn't be an issue if more voters supported Michael Bennet or Steve Bullock. The safest bet is to run a sane middle aged white guy against the 75 year old unhinged bananas white guy.
6
"Woke" is ungrammatical. The second I heard it my first thought was this: we have an English language. Why abuse it?
7
Mr. Egan's very apt article brings to mind Eric Hofer's The True Believers. Certain narrow groups of ideologues (left and right, political and religious) hold that anyone who disagrees with them is either ignorant, stupid, evil, or some combination thereof. Too many woke folks are true believers.
13
Democrats.... wake up... this means you. You will lose the next election if you continue defending this snobbishness. Timothy Egan is trying to tell you the truth. Stop blaming the independent voters and look in the mirror at your own image; the one with the laugh, the attitude of superiority and condensation. Even people who despise Trump love to hear him give it back to you.
16
I see it. In a(n online) conversation, I was called a “worthless, self-aggrandizing, misogynistic” so-and-so for suggesting that the Democratic Party needs to bring back working folks. Which they of course concluded was code for ‘white men’. The “self-aggrandizing” part was funny, because the woman stating it cited her “graduate and post graduate degrees” as proof somehow of her ability in knowing things that mere ‘working folk’ are clearly too dense to get.
I resisted the urge to ask her if working in a lab in a “prestigious institution” (her words) for 20 years leaves her as some kind of expert on the thoughts/hopes/worries of your average American. I knew what the answer would be.
I don’t know who first said “It’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game!” ......but he or she should come back and tell the Democrats “I may have misspoken”
8
And those swing state voters aren't exactly standing doffed cap in hand, tracing little circles in the dust with their big-toes now, are they? This is not spoken in defence of the 'insufferably woke' who most definitely can be a pain in one's backside, but isn't about time everyone walked a mile or two in someone else's shoes?
1
Another reminder that politics is often the art of convincing the stupid.
That said, Egan makes an excellent point.
I think that makes me condescending and open minded in a single post.
5
Get real. The "problem" with Elizabeth Warren is that she's a woman.
9
Empathy and compassion are something that people earn by virtue of who they are and their circumstances.
If you ever come across someone who demands those things, rather then earning them, you know you are dealing with a Republican.
Trump supporters talk about coastal elites. Well, have you ever seen a bigger example of self-righteous condescension and condemnation then the people at a Donald Trump rally?
Those people make coastal elites seem like Mother Teresa. I've never seen so much vile, unbridled hatred in one room. But they're the "victims" right? What hogwash.
11
Well, GEE WHIZ, Mr. Egan, I'm so sorry that Democrats are making thin-skinned Trump fans feel bad. I mean the nerve, to insult someone who applauds treating migrant children worse than animals in a zoo. How dare those Democrats.
And what right do they have for their patience to run out after Republicans write articles about how uppity those Democrats while the Kurds are getting slaughtered.
What right.
They're even talking about universal healthcare in the presence of Republicans -- again, HOW DARE THEY and what right do they have.
Perhaps if Trump fans weren't so disgusting that they scream about how minorities need to go back where they came from, promote torture, and are spitting on my father's grave, I might be kinder to your poor dear thin-skinned Trump fans.
But let's face fact, Mr. Egan. Winston Churchill, as a conservative, advocated healthcare reform. Most democracies do. And so did my father, who fought in WWII and was given the Silver Star.
Perhaps you and yours in the Republican party of Trump are actually the ones who are insufferable. Take a good look in the mirror. And it might even be that it's not just Democrats that annoy you.
It's democracy.
15
My sister is college educated, Christian, and married to a dental surgeon. She has raised a lovely family. Like your sister, she voted for Trump and will again. What’s amazing about our sisters is how they can ignore the constant lies, utter chaos, destruction of long-built relationships with our allies, and the total erosion of morals and decency this creepy man is perpetuating. All in the name of what? Simple, hateful language? I don’t get it, ladies.
12
I respect Tim Egan and enjoy his writing, but I’m going to continue to force the nightmare of decent health care down
How is not possible to talk over a person who votes for Trump? How?
3
Many Democrats, she says, are dismissive of her religious beliefs
What does your sister mean by that?
10
All the mumbo jumbo about "woke," condescension, hurt feelings, etc. should make very little difference. What are the relevant facts? Lowest unemployment in several generations if not ever; lowest black unemployment ever; lowest hispanic unemployment ever; wages rising faster than at any time in over a decade; stock market at all time highs; challenging China on their global cheating in trade; etc., etc., etc. Compare this record of achievement to Ms. Warren's impossible dreams or Bernie's ranting. Makes you wonder who is "woke" and who is not.
4
Tim, tell us. What can someone like Elizabeth Warren tell your sister? Is there anything? Anything that will convince her?
Tell us.
You have obviously not convinced her.
If you cannot convince her, how can politicians?
13
I’ve always called it “the (sanctimonious) lefter than though crowd”, but I have to confess that “insufferably woke” is even more accurate for today.
Ralph Nader and the self professed, self absorbed puritanically pure, lefter than though crowd, went ahead and ushered in W’s shock and awe with “Bush v. Gore”, all made possible by Democrats looking for something more than the less than exciting Al. And we’re about to do it all over again. Plain and simple, you get to government you deserve, and the “woke” will sleep through it all.
6
I hope your colleague Bret Stephens reads your column. He seems to be leading the charge to further disenfranchise the working poor and middle class from the Democratic Party. Texas and other southern and Midwestern states used to be blue. The Democratic “elites” are causing many in the heart of the country to see red, again. Wake up all you “woke” experts.
4
If someone calls another person a "virtue signaling know-it-all" then I don't think there's any reaching them in the first place. Fox News and talk radio has done their thinking for them. If you point out that any number of absurd talking points about "unlimited illegal immigration" or "socialistic" this-or-that is demonstrably false, you get called an elitist snob for having the insufferable prissiness to call the truth the truth. How dare we!
If you get off ranting about gun violence in Chicago or Baltimore, then don't throw a hissyfit about urban supremacy when we point out the presence of the opioid epidemic or widespread poverty in rural America. Me not sharing your religious beliefs and not wanting you to shove them down my throat via codifying them in law is not the same as me disrespecting your religion. Saying that your religious freedom is under attack by me not living my life the way you dictate that I should is beyond absurd.
For once, I'd like all of these insulted and condescended-to voters to describe what they actually want from us. So far as I see it, all they really want us for is to serve as boogeymen for the purpose of maintaining their blanket of victimhood identity that they've wrapped themselves in.
15
Trump has never disparaged the electorate as did Hillary re: "irredeemable deplorable, racist, xenophobic, etc." Say what you will, Trump really likes and cares about the American people. He's a builder. He wants to make things happen.
4
This is very, very unintentionally funny. Haven't you heard? The "woke" are in fact snowflakes whose feelings nobody should care about all. Yesterday we all watched Donald Trump Jr. on The View, endlessly repeating variations of 'I know you are but what am I?' Progressives on twitter and other platforms face endless racist, antisemitic, homophobic, misogynist attacks from right wing trolls like Tomi Lahren that very few conservative seem inclined to condemn.
I think what your sister meant to say is that progressives aren't willing to do what she wants them to do, when she wants them to do it. If she wants to blow everything up because progressives supposedly hurt her feelings, then I am certainly entitled to question her intelligence and good faith.
By the way, the next time you talk to her about her hurt feelings, you might ask her out there in Prineville or Ontario or wherever she lives why other Oregonians should be required to foot the bill for her bad decisions. Why is personal responsibility only for people of color? Why not for white ladies in the sticks who make bad choices and then blame other people for their problems?
14
I still you're criticising the wrong people here. Some people may be insufferable virtual signallers but going for a view where we try to be better, etc. isn't wrong. Criticising trying to be a non-racist, non-sexist, etc. is wrong.
I really don't want to look at this as a tribal war and I don't in practice but just go to Fox News and read all the comments there. Now read the comments here.
I would say that the NY Times (which is not really left in my view but let's say it represents the "leftist" view) and Fox News (which let's say represents the "rightist" view) comparison is very illuminating and would indeed put your sibling in the wrong.
But go ahead, vote for Trump. Get what you deserve. Winning isn't everything. I don't think people should sacrifice their principles to win.
1
I agree. But the Democrats are working very hard to elect Trump.
Think about it; to about half the people in this country Hillary Clinton was a more odious person than Trump. The Democrats were blissfully unaware of this fact. Even now people try to convince me Hillary was a great candidate and cheated of a victory. That thought process is going to give Warren the nomination and Trump the Presidency which Democrats will blame the stupid voters.
We have to stop all this talk of free healthcare for immigrants and open borders. Instead talk about jobs or anything that white working class voters. Warren is going to get huge numbers among the woke but lose the election.
I'll vote for devil over Donald J. Trump but there are not enough of my kind to win an election.
11
I would suggest the Wokest of the Woke contact the ghost of George McGovern and ask him how his 1972 version of Woke worked.
5
The thing is, most of what constitutes wokeness is superficial, ill-informed, and dumb, and the woke are closed to differing ideas. That's what makes wokeness insufferable.
8
Curious how people can be so sensitive to perceived condescension, yet oblivious to the constant hate spewing from the mouths of Trump, Hannity, Limbaugh, many more in the "conservative" propaganda machine.
13
I am genuinely baffled, Mr. Egan, by your drumbeat of dismissiveness and condescension. What are you talking about? You provide no examples. What candidate has been dismissive of your sister's religion? I haven't heard any of the candidates say anything disrespectful about people's religious beliefs. What has been said by Democrats that has made your sister feel like she's not good enough, smart enough, "woke" enough? I'd really like to know, because what candidate with a brain would actually say that stuff and expect to get elected? I'm mystified, yet neither you nor she provide evidence to justify her grievances. Please enlighten me. I'm all ears.
12
Quoting Obama sounding as cynically flexible as Mulroney ("'get over ithat quickly'") risks turning everybody into a nihilist.
Something doesn't add up here. Who, exactly, is insulting your sister? Where and when? A few snobs on Twitter aren't driving people to vote for Trump. It's Fox Newz, et al, telling them that the "elites" are insulting them. They are being played for fools. Just not by Elizabeth Warren.
14
Who are these insufferable, condescending and elitist leftists? Please, do name some names, and quote what they have actually said. What major Democrats have said elitist things? Or are we going to keep citing Clinton's "deplorables" comment because no other examples exist? I am so tired of anecdotal accounts of Democratic elitism. Republicans are always throwing the "elitism" card at Dems as a way of defecting attention from the insufferably elitism way their own policies.
To be "woke" is not elitist. On campuses, the most "woke" students are working class, racially minoritized students lost in a sea of upper class, elitist, white aggression. They're "woke" when they finally read Malcolm X, who was very woke, and hardly elitist.
Obama has now thrown this small if loud group of young, impassioned leftish Democrats under the bus by scolding them for being "woke." But let's not forget that he was *constantly* accused by Republicans of elitism because...he spoke in complete sentences? Did his homework? Dared be a black man in the white House?
7
I find it amusing that a twenty something could be woke. I’m 60 and woke is still a work in progress. If they’re honest, when they grow up, these wokies will laugh at themselves.
6
OH STOP. All day long we take abuse, supposedly for being "smug coastal elite globalists" etc and getting religion crammed down our throats.
If people are willing to vote for Trump they're never going to support a civil, democratic, pluralistic America.
11
The so-called liberals, Egan, the New York Times, and the rest of you good intentioned liberals seem to have been taken by the Stockholm sycamore. While I agree with part of what Egan is selling he has a lot backwards. And it is his and too many Democrats attitude that bending over backwards is going to improve relations and at the same time our future when Republican bullies play them six ways to Sunday. What a nightmare, Republican bullies and Democrat moderates dance around the obvious in equal denial and refusal to recognize facts and truth.
And the truth is while the planet is at the precipice we have people like Egan lobbying for love and understanding for those the NYTs has never had the courage to accurately describe, or call out.
Time Egan and company stand up and be counted. Of course this would require they quit playing the fool and turn around and confront themselves and their apologetic stance in the face of insanity.
Where is the moderates explanation and rationalization for why we should work with the GOP when its policies basically spell the end of the American experiment? Literally bodies in the street. Those of us paying attention are forced from the conversation by those ostensibly on our side trapped in political correctness.
2
I see you make no mention of Bernies Sanders who is from and for the white working class. What's the problem?
4
What Democrats are you talking about? Who is she listening to? I am insulted that those in your sister's economic and working situation say that I do not respect their religion, living conditions etc.
I know she wouldn't respect mine. I lean to the Eastern and Buddhist philosophies. She'd probably think I'm nuts. But I don't think she is 'nuts'.
Is it Warren, and Pete, and Sanders she's talking about??? She's been bamboozled. That's what the Republicans want. That's what Trump wants.
I wish your sister would take a look at the facts!
7
"virtue-signaling know-it-alls."
That says it all. This hubris is really insufferable.
5
The New York Times has done its fair share promoting an "insulting & condescending" perception of a certain demographic. The media in general has divided the voting public into "coastal elites" or "poor, white and uneducated". By that criteria, I guess I'm not supposed to support my progressive candidate of choice.
4
Here is a twist. Let's try this one on for size using the presidents own words.
I find the highly uneducated voters Trump loves so much repugnant. I find their willingness to look at a set of facts and an then decide they are "fake" when overwhelmingly they are not, disgusting.
I find their cries of being looked down upon for their religious beliefs disingenuous. We are one of the most religious countries in the industrialized world. There aren't atheist community centers popping up next to churches all over the country.
Remaining proud of being willfully ignorant when we have the world at our fingertips...the internet...is foolish and at some point laughable.
When you decide to remain uninformed, uneducated, ignorant, blind, inattentive and then become outraged when others point out your decision to remain this way I can't help but to think less of you.
I don't think less of these people because I believe they are somehow mentally challenged and incapable of thinking or behaving any other way. I think less of them because of excuse making for their lot in life and then as the world changes around them they expect it to remain unchanged.
I'm a college dropout and I barely graduated high school. Ever since those days decades ago I have tried to grow, study, learn and remain curious about the world around me and the world at large.
I know I'm not inherently smarter than many of these people Mr. Egan feels are being trod upon. The only difference is I chose to remain curious.
9
This piece should be required reading for every Democrat, liberal, and progressive who wants to help usher Trump out of office. Nobody likes an arrogant scold.
5
These Americans, ridiculed by the Left as unintelligent rubes, are smart enough to know when they are being insulted. Those who insist on alienating them seem to have a political IQ in the single digits.
8
As the adage goes, "You can be right or you can be effective. But rarely can you be both."
It really doesn't matter if we think the author's sister is behaving irrationally or whether we think she and other swing voters should "meet us halfway" or whether they live in a Fox News bubble or whether they vote against their own interests. The fact of the matter is that this is how they behave and this is how they feel (and even as a gay man I've been on the receiving end of some sit-down-and-shut-up-because-you-are-not-oppressed-enough-top-have-an-opinion wokeness so I can definitely relate to the way many people feel about political correctness being weaponized).
Until the electoral college system changes (unlikely anytime soon) and urban centers can afford to completely ignore voters like this is the reality we have to work with. So again, do we want to be right or do we want to be effective?
4
I know a few people who, as Mr. Egan puts it, are "insufferably woke" — condescending, hyperbolic and always ready to call someone a bigot for minor, unintentional transgressions. I see many more of them on Twitter.
The interesting thing is how they treat certain groups so differently. A woman caught stealing power tools from someone's back yard to feed her drug habit is just a victim of her abusive upbringing and her addictions, in need of mercy and rehabilitation. But if a woman raised the exact same way became a hard-working, law-abiding citizen who volunteers frequently in her children's classrooms but also happened to vote for Trump ... well then, that's all on her, not her upbringing, and she's an irredeemable piece of racist trash who deserves to be shunned.
That kind of hypocrisy and closed-mindedness is a major turnoff for many people.
9
I can't understand the level of tone-deafness in this article. You say that call-out culture is toxic and then liken it to the exact types of behavior that are subject to call-out culture: senseless, racist drivel. Because Obama is black, he was subject to people questioning his nationality, suggesting that he should be lynched, and endlessly spouting slurs in his direction. But yes, the people with the gall to call out that behavior are the problem. The people who have been most affected by the behavior we seek to eradicate should be quiet and shake hands with those who hate them.
5
This article and many others from NYT wants us to believe that the American working class feels the same way about ALL left-leaning candidates. This is false. Bernie Sanders is far more popular to these folks in the rust belt, rural areas and everywhere else than are Warren, Buttigieg, Harris, Beto, etc... Tulsi Gabbard has great potential to appeal to non-professional Americans, common Americans, as well.
2
As far as I can see Mr. Egan's sister and those "woke" folks have both selfishly put their feelings ahead of the welfare of the country and their fellow Americans. trump is a clear and present danger to our country and our democracy, to Americans of color, LGBTQ, and non-Christians. While they are both part of the problem, at least the "woke" understand what a threat trump actually is unlike Mr. Egan's sister. To those of us who are not, white and Christian there is much more at stake than just dignity in another four years of trump. It is an issue of safety.
7
Let's be clear. Many Republicans knew Obama was not born in Kenya but it was convenient to keep their base believing that - and other falsehoods. Many people who happen to claim the GOP as their own do not understand, or want to believe, how they are manipulated.
8
Democrats should focus on the young--it's a much bigger demographic than dyed-in-the-wool Trump voters, and they are predominantly liberal.
Nothing liberals say or do is going to make a difference with this group of people. We need to cut them loose.
11
This is honestly another example of how social media has created complete toxicity in our public discourse. I would be willing to bet that most people who feel resentful towards "woke," inflexible liberal types have rarely encountered those types in their own lives, and particularly not in conversation. They are a minority of Democrats or liberals, and rarely as vehement in person as online, but their stark, holier-than-thou proclamations keep getting amplified by social media, and then by the media trying to make a story out of social media (a kind of "news" story I detest). Certainly, it would helpful if they would cut it out, but they won't, and hardly anyone passes their purity tests, which they use most stringently on other Democrats or liberals, in fact. I have a Trump supporter relative who attributes the most insane ideas and positions to liberals - and then when I ask her if she's ever heard anyone say those things, she says no. But it doesn't matter, because she wants to believe it because it gives something to be against and to be better than. It's a narrative people want to believe, frankly, like when they believed "deplorables" referred to all Trump voters or all conservatives.
5
Why is it that Democrats are constantly told that "extremism" will not work for their party when it's worked so very well for the other party?
Trump's as extreme as you can get and he's inspired the most fanatic loyalty of any Republican ever. Even with all his crimes and flaws exposed, people outright say they don't care what he does, they're sticking by him. And he's brought all Republican elected officials and the entire party apparatus under his control to the point of debasement and criminality.
Can you blame Democrats for thinking that middle-of-the-road has become a losing strategy these days? Hillary tried it and failed (and her failure was blamed in part on that choice). Trump was the classic extreme disrupter and he's been winning ever since he appeared.
7
Calling oneself "woke" makes a sweeping yet ill-defined moral claim that practically begs to be challenged. Other "woke" people will evaluate whether you're really "woke" or "woke enough." Call yourself an "ally," and sooner or later a person of color will find your claim naive, presumptuous, or false, and question it. At election time, centrists unhappy with your progressive politics may even challenge whether you're a "real Democrat."
I could get into a long, fiery argument with another White liberal right now about whether or not it's O.K. to critique the concept of "White privilege" in any way as a White person, only to compare notes afterwards and discover that - surprise! - we're actually in complete agreement concerning racial injustice in this country. Debating conservatives can be infuriating, but there's nothing as obnoxious as arguing with other White liberals about academic terminology.
I'm well to the left of the Democratic party on social, racial, and economic issues, but you'll never hear me call myself "woke," an "ally," or even a "Democrat." If you observe what I say and do and how I vote, you won't find much that contradicts those terms. But I won't pre-package my views with trendy, problematic labels that spark pointless debates with like-minded people.
6
First, let me object to the way you framed this: liberal folks treat all those conservative working class folk just terribly, and we don't value their political views, and don't value their votes.
Now, let me get this straight:
A person who has been hurt the most by Trump and his policies is going to vote for him AGAIN! And she's going to do that because "the other side" is condescending?
And we're bullies for questioning this person's judgement, why?
10
No Second Place in a Two Horse Race!
I'm 66 years old and have $75,000 in student loan debt. Oh, I'd love it to be forgiven.
But my relatives in North Dakota don't care about that sort of thing. And they will also say that if you borrow money, you must pay it back. Pretty sure lots of voters in Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania feel the same way.
So I'm paying it back myself. You, reader in Ohio, don't have to concern yourself with me.
Geez, Get smart Democrates! Nominate someone that can win. Moderates like Governor Steve Bullock or Senator Michael Bennet are your nominees.
4
Global warming's social media stars are a perfect example of the Left's hypocrisy in policy versus reality. Last week's widespread image of actor Leonardo DiCaprio seated with Swedish activist Greta Thunberg in California is a perfect example. DiCaprio, ever the electric car evangelist, is better known for constantly flying worldwide in a private jet, and then flying in models not much older than Thunberg with more private jet trips. Thunberg makes a mockery of her own values as well, traveling "green" nonstop. Never mind that her own travels necessitate every kinds of ecological compromise that she rails against. A transcontinental Tesla tour involved electricity made with coal, excess water usage in deserts, and shipped foods at every stop in her tour. Thunberg does not seem to understand that her lifestyle cannot be shared. If a billion people decided to take a "no fuel" sail across the Atlantic Ocean, the production of fiberglass, plastic, aluminum, synthetic fibers, etc. would cripple the environment. Such is the Democratic "woke" movement, whereby those at the top lecture us clueless rabble into how to live responsibly while they eat farmed salmon cruising at 41,000 feet in a Gulfstream on the way to the next important conference.
3
Yo, Mr. Egan: Trump is talking to the nation in abusive, confrontational and vile language including more than 13,000 outright lies or untrue statements in his 3-year term.
Question: Does your sister really appreciate the way Trump talks to people or is it all about the evangelical Republican anti-abortion, anti-LBGTQ, anti-immigrant language that she favors? Fortunately, we Democrats don't speak any of those languages. Tim, you can't even convince your own sister that she's voting against her own best interests, so why do you expect that we Democrats can talk the Trump/Republican talk that people of her religious-right persuasion want to hear? We are Democrats, Tim.
6
So, you took all my comments about what's wrong with the Democrats and how they are going to lose again.
Your article is better than mine only because I believe in the quote attributed to Mark Twain "I am sorry this letter is so long, I didn't have time to write a short one"
You also got a lot more than 1,500 characters, I might have beat you had it been a fair contest.
Nevertheless, your article is better than my letter and I congratulate you for bringing the problems that the Democrats have and helping to steer the ship a little toward the middle.
1
The Framers of the Constitution used to speak of the genius of the American people. Would be nice if elites of every stripe paid some respect to the people who have made them successful by voting for them, buying their stuff, watching their shows, reading their opinions and paying for the government they run to operate.
With friends that voted and believe in Trump, I decided some time ago that trying to convince them that Trump doesn't describe a road that is to their benefit was a fools errand. Disparaging Trump doesn't accomplish anything except getting them more entrenched. However, what can work is to do what a good salesperson does. Ask them questions about issues that are important to them and see how they feel about the government's response. By questioning what they see, you can find openings to change opinions.
1
Chris Arnade suggested this first, before Egan, before David Brooks--quite some time ago, in fact. Everyone should read his book, "Dignity: Seeking Respect In Back-Row America." Rather than talking about "empathy," walk the talk.
Maybe Mr. Egan could convince his sister to stop watching Fox News or listening to talk radio where she is hearing: "Many Democrats, she says, are dismissive of her religious beliefs and condescending of her lot in life. She’s turned off by the virtue-signaling know-it-alls." She sure isn't meeting anyone in real life that corresponds to this evergreen stereotype.
8
Dear Mr. Egan,
After reading this, I was still left wondering: Who are the "insufferably woke?" I kept waiting for an explanation but didn't find it. You use your sister as an example of a larger group of people-- namely, members of the white working class-- who feel dismissed and insulted, but how so? I'm genuinely interested.
One point I definitely got from your article was that a group of persuadable voters, like your sister, are apparently incredibly turned off by virtue-signaling and political correctness and, thus, for some reason, they see Trump as their only choice. You use Obama’s words to solidify your point that wokedness is basically wrong; yet you dismiss that Obama was discouraging FAKE virtue-signaling, particularly in social media platforms.
I don’t understand why you and so many others place so much emphasis on the wrongness of virtue-signaling and political correctness but not on the wrongness of certain racist or unjust actions, or on the wrongness of willful ignorance. I find the whole thing hypocritical: do you also ask conservatives and the disenfranchised voters you speak of to talk to people who they disagree with and truly listen to them?
6
Absolutely agree, but I fear Trump will only lose when that core base turn against him. Bad Governments and dictators ironically fall when they try to reform. If Trump can be softened up to do something that the Democrats can agree with, that will be the moment his base will destroy him.
1
"Basket of deplorables"
The Democrats bear far more responsibility for Trump's rise than most of us admit. But if we don't admit it, and very soon, his arc will soar ever higher.
2
I was born and raised in a Cambridge project during the late 1960s and early 1970s. I could not have been more liberal in my upbringing and environment. I lived through the dire hardships that are mere abstracts for most liberals.
Yet slowly over time I became more conservative, a lot of which had to do with seeing the darkness that exists outside the sunlight of American shores. The aircraft carrier I was stationed on pulled 600 Vietnamese boat people out of the South China Sea in 1982, and visited both the Philippines and South Korea when both countries were under martial law.
I am an egalitarian in every way. I am also an accomplished engineering technician who recently spent a year working on space flight equipment that was destined to go into space aboard the NASA Orion, Delta IV and Atlas missions. I am also an optioned screenwriter and hold two electronic patents.
Yet for the past twenty years, because I disagree with left-wing Democrat policies and now support President Trump I am a white supremacist racist misogynist homophobic Islamophobic deplorable. Today I support the President more than ever, because I look at the other side and see nothing but hatred directed toward me.
A poll came out today showing that voter enthusiasm for the next election is bucking the historical trend of being soft for the incumbent when it is actually higher now than it was in 2016. Ask yourselves why that is when Trump wins again next year.
3
There are so many tropes in this piece, it's hard to keep track.
First, none of the presidential candidates is acting "woke," and Mr. Egan doesn't make a case that any of them are. He's fighting a battle against an unknown foe. I think he's referring to the kind of disgusting anti-white male people who get a lot of column space to spout their hate here in the NY Times, but none of them are running for office.
Second, why do moderates keep crying about "purity" when all it really means is that we don't want to vote for another do-nothing moderate Democrat? If that's too "pure" for you, you either haven't been paying attention or you've been benefiting from the status quo that is making life hard for the rest of us. Or maybe you've already forgotten what happened in the last presidential election? The rest of us haven't, and we don't want to go down that road again.
Third, is there a literal blackout of Bernie Sanders in the NY Times? Folks, you can't ignore him forever. He's going to be in this until the end. Get used to it.
Fourth, good luck to your relative. I'm not changing my vote to make her happy, and she's clearly not going to vote for a Democrat anyway. I'm voting for what I believe in, not to assuage some Republican or conservative Democrat who doesn't like Trump.
1
For insulting and condescending you can't do better than Fox News and the men who watch it. They've been laughing at and shouting down Democratic guests for years, and now men who watch it laughs at and shouts down their Democratic wives and children. Enough of the scolding of Democrats. Since the mid-90s when Fox News went on the air Republicans have treated us with scorn; we watched Republicans refuse even to shake Obama's hand for eight long years and heard them call him the worst President ever still; and Tim Egan has the gall to blame us for being insufferable? If anything we have an insufferable urge to punish ourselves for somehow not reaching out to Republicans and being respectful while they haven't shown an ounce of respect for us or our values for years. Enough.
7
It may be too late. Warren has come out in favor of increased immigration, especially family reunification. Not popular. Nor is decriminalizing illegal immigration. Even though this has been misunderstood, it was the wrong issue to push. Why are Dems favoring people who aren't citizens or even residents over those who are? The Democratic Party, including Barack Obama, have also relentlessly pushed a bizarre campaign to allow men and boys to compete in women's and girls' sports and share locker rooms and restrooms with them. To say that's unpopular would be a gigantic understatement. To ordinary people the Democratic Party seems out of touch not only with ordinary people but with reality. Men aren't women, and boys aren't girls. The five times removed descendants of slaves don't deserve reparations. It's not just cancel culture. It's a culture that seems to be residing on another planet on which logic, reason, and biological reality don't apply.
2
Great article. In 2016, the Bros, Susan Sarandon, Rosario Dawson were all insufferable holier than thou bullies. No respect for Hillary Clinton or "boomers' who have been fighting for change for a lifetime. It wasn't worth it. I gave up Facebook and Twitter, weary of being ambushed by virtue signalers who, honestly, have done no heavy lifting, ever. They are good at demanding ideological purity. This is why Sanders or Warren can't possibly win. I would never ever vote for Trump, but I won't vote for them either.
2
"Many Democrats, she says, are dismissive of her religious beliefs and condescending of her lot in life."
This may well be true. Also likely true is that "many" non-Democrats are thus. And "many" people of all stripes are just insensitive and condescending to others.
Just wondering though: when she made this claim did she also state specific examples? The word "many" covers, well, many. Surely she could have shared one or two anecdotes with you.
Or did she just learn this on FOX news and right-wing hate radio?
You are a journalist; why take a broad sweeping condemnation like that at face value?
For the record, I also find the insufferably woke to be insufferable.
1
The future of this country depends upon the acceptable of the insight contained in this article by those at whom it is directed. That’s all.
2
As someone from the Midwest now living in Los Angeles I would like to remind everyone the flyover states are generally a decade behind the hip urban coastal cities. Right now if we want a dem to win in 2020 we need to shoot for the middle. We can be progressive in 2030.
1
So let me get this straight: because "moderates democrats" or "non-progressives who hate Trump" don't like how progressives "talk" to and about them they are going to vote for Trump to remain President?
I just don't buy it. If you are disgusted with Trump and fear that he is straining the institutions of our democracy "buck up" and vote him out.
Or, maybe, just maybe, its not how progressives talk that scares you, it's the fact they might raise your taxes and make it harder for white kids to continue to have the step up they have enjoined for hundreds of years. Or, that they dare to suggest you have privilege and that maybe, just maybe are not as amazing, ethical, and humble as you fancy yourself.
4
I respect Tim Eagan and enjoy his writing, but I’m going to continue to force the nightmare or decent health care, jobs and governance down the throats of my fellow Americans as if I know better than they do. Sorry!
6
Thanks for a very well-put piece.
2
Egan is wrong. More than 75,000 Motown Obama voters did not bother to vote for Clinton. They did not become Trump voters – Trump received only 10,000 votes more than Romney did in this county... in a state that Trump won by 10,000 votes and we are supposed to worry about risking bringing those voters back to appease Egan's sister who is inured to reason from years of Fox propaganda? Sorry, I'll pass.
4
The people you are trying to reach, the insufferable, supercilious, smug, pompous ones, have no idea what you're talking about, and you'll never get through to them. They are so sure of themselves. Can't make a dent. This is why I'm a moderate.
3
We are back to voting for someone because we can imagine having a beer with them. Though, incidentally, I can’t think of anyone I would less want to have a beer with than Donald Trump. There is a real man of the people.
None of this makes any sense. Egan and his sister are both spouting incoherent nonsense. The idea of “ wokeness” has nothing to do with, for example, single payer health care. Nothing at all. But if you want to distract people, you tell them that private insurance companies have something to do with freedom or respecting your religion or some such gibberish.
I don’t pick my insurance company. My employer does. If I lose my job, I don’t get to keep my insurance. And none of this has anything at all to do with my religion, and, btw, I go to church regularly. Yet I am supposed to think that I should oppose Medicare for All because as a churchgoer I am being insulted by liberal secularists?
I can’t help but think that pundits and politicians both go well out of their way to obfuscate and confuse people. It is patronizing and wrong to assume that our politics has to be conducted on this level of idiocy. Yet somehow, during every campaign season, we are told we have to think this way by pundits like Egan.
4
The democrats don't have to agree with, or accommodate, those who hold sincere (but "non-progressive") beliefs on issues such as abortion, same-sex marriage, and immigration, but they'd better learn to show some degree of respect for these people. We could well lose another election to condescension and complacency (the "deplorables" syndrome).
2
100% agree.
I had breakfast at a local diner here in upstate NY - the place was full of the kind of folks like your relative.
A fellow I know sat at the next table. He had just returned from a Veteran’s Day thing. We exchanged hello’s and this is what he said about his morning, “Liberals want to stop me but I started my talk with ‘Ladies and Gentlemen’.”
“Really,” I asked? “Well, I’m a Liberal and I give you permission to say ‘Ladies and Gentlemen’ as much as you want.”
He’s a Trumpster so he’s not voting for anyone else but he’s spreading that stuff to others who might be brought over to ‘the light’.
2
I am a classical European liberal, who grew up in the USSR. I will definitely vote for Trump. I am not his fan, I don’t like how he speaks, but there is no way I will vote for the party of socialism. And yes, I know what socialism is. I read Marx and Lenin, I read the NYT and the Washington post, I read left-wing websites, so don’t assume I am ignorant of history and economic ideas of the left.
The left-wing in America is amazingly smug, and yet it is them who are ignorant and illogical, and frankly, not terribly bright. They have no idea what their vision would do to this country.
5
Most of these people every day for years have been fed propaganda from Fox and talk radio. That is what they believe. Constantly being conditioned with fear and hate.
1
It is a Republican line that Democrats condescend and demand political correctness. They will say that, no matter what Democrats do -- and they will be believed, no matter what Democrats do.
18
I am struck by a petulant, whining quality among many of these comments that one might associate with people who are not yet grown-ups. I've often joked that I'm closer to a Communist than anything else--I want singler-payer, liberal immigration, and any number of policies that might be too much for even many of my fellow die-hard "bleeding-heart liberals."
But how about we look at what is, and what's possible in today's environment, rather than what we wish were true? Yes, as one commenter noted, "the onus should be" on Trump supporters to to come around. But so what? "Should' doesn't count. Do we want to remove the current president from office? Do we want our best shot at bringing in all these people we do, frankly, look down on, by trying to understand what is going to reach them? Or do we want to pout and say it's their fault and just leave the country in the grasp of the man and cult that are the greatest danger to our democracy in our lifetimes? Warren and Sanders are my kindred spirits; I pray that neither becomes our candidate in 2020.
9
@RG
I agree with most of what you say, except your comment about "the greatest danger to our democracy in our lifetimes".
Not getting your way does not constitute a danger to democracy.
7
We need to keep reminding each other of the Democratic divergence that researchers have alerted us to: the divergence between those opinions and attitudes that predominate where Democrats congregate on the Internet (in-your-face progressive) and those of the majority of Democrats (more centrist).
This condition endangers Democrats' electoral chances in two ways. First, it's liable to make the woke set believe that they're riding an irresistible wave of sociopolitical change when they're not. Second, it gives Fox News and other Trumpist organs a ready-made bogeyperson who needs only to be quoted in their own words (am I safe so far?) as speaking for the Democratic Party.
Coping with the danger of woke politics is made difficult not only by the individual's intoxicating sense of being part of a movement, but also by a truly ideological element in that movement. The conservative cry of "Socialism!" is not entirely misplaced.
It's not that the programs being offered by Sanders or Warren are downright socialist, but that they and other initiatives are being demanded by the far left in a spirit of revolution that is indeed Marxist-Leninist. For example, a Times Op-Ed on differences of opinion among feminists a few months ago quoted a matter-of-fact reference to the requirements of "socialist feminism".
For some American progressives, hard-core socialism lives. It sees its main chance in the elections of 2020, and it will wreck democracy rather than pull back now.
4
Democrats (I am one) are looking for a way to lose to Trump. The ideological purity that encouraged people to vote for Jill Stein or to stay home because Bernie didn't get the nomination is raising it's head again. If you like the way things are going, keep pushing for what the GOP will call "Open borders" or push for tax cuts to fund the fanciful Medicare for All. The man or woman sitting at the local bar in the industrial midwest isn't going to be pulling the level for Elizabeth Warren (even though they probably should). Beating Trump is job 1 and nothing else matters.
10
American writer and humorist Roy Blount Jr. once quipped;
“Even intellectuals should have learned by now that objective rationality is not the default position of the human mind, much less the bedrock of human affairs.”
When I watch Trump rallies and scratch my head in total disbelief as to how anyone could vote for him I'm reminded to take heed of Mr. Blount's observation.
My fellow democrats should recall that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes in 2016 yet how is she not President?
The Electoral College system will not be eliminated prior to 2020. I guarantee the last thing that swing state voters want is for the next president to rule by the progressive flip side of Trump's isolationist my way or the highway form of governance.
9
My workplace has been convulsed repeatedly over the past years by woke crusaders. There have been moments of real toxicity. There was an older white woman who one of our younger staff was friends with on Facebook. The younger staff member saw some posts by this woman praising Trump. Well, before you knew it the word was out that this woman voted Trump. Within a few months she was pushed out of the office.
I feel like t here is a McCarthy-ite strain in the Democratic Party these days. Rage over Trump’s win in ‘16 put it into overdrive, but it was there before. I am a Democrat, but I am profoundly depressed by our role in stoking the forces that are tearing our country apart.
Let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone...
14
Elizabeth Warren is not connecting with the very people her policies are supposed to help.
it's could be a communication problem as the article suggest , Warren, try to get some help on that front , can't hurt.
2
I sometimes think that the acceptance and legalization of gay marriage is what's doing the Dems in. It took decades and a concerted hearts-&-minds campaign to accomplish, but progressives think that all their other idealistic dominoes will fall into place now, that they have momentum and a mandate. That is, mostly, a fallacy among the general electorate, and progressives would do well to take a step back, marshal their education efforts, and treat each ideal/domino as a new campaign rather than the fait accompli of the last one. It will take time, which in our instant gratification culture is difficult to countenance, but acting too quickly, or threatening legislation/court-packing that will severely sanction people who haven't been won over to your point yet, is a sure ticket to a backlash. As 2016 proved.
4
Elizabeth Warren isn't condescending. If people see her that way, that's their problem not hers.
9
Responding very late in the game; others may have raised the same points. That said, condescension is only part of the problem. The other problem is how the far left obsesses on the imperfections of the 200+ year old "American experiment". Yes there are enough bigotries, etc., some bad enough so "imperfection" may certainly be too mild a descriptor. But which "western" nation has done better? There are plenty of Americans who are mindful of our historical imperfections, but feel that our history is overwhelmingly a positive and bitterly resent leftist attacks on their patriotic feelings.
11
Remember the movie "Norma Rae"? The educated union organizer could not reach the southern factory worker. They spoke different languages. The candidates of the Democratic field have much life experience in common with the people they need to talk to, except their education and cultural adulthood. Trump, who has almost zero life experience in common with his voters, has figured out how to talk and yes con them.
6
I have never heard Democrats be dismissive of religion. I have heard them give pushback to those who claim we are a Christian nation, that our laws should bend to the Bible, that other religions and non affiliated should be required to hew to to Christian rules. That is then called “being dismissive and condescending”. A while back I gave up- I agree with Pete Buttegieg- whatever you do or say will never be enough. Those who are old, white, rural, Christian demand obeisance and if not given they claim they are being disrespected.
19
It is not just working-class voters who are put off by the “woke” culture. Doctrinaire radicalism, inability to listen, and sheer self-satisfied ignorance are combined to create a toxic brew that will ensure the re-election of Trump simply because the alternative is so unappealing. Forget about the substance of Warren/Sanders policies which are economically unsustainable and socially ruinous. How about the tone? I can no longer listen to Warren’s screeching demagoguery- and I am a voter who donated to Clinton and was heartbroken when she lost. Sanders sounds like Trotsky lite, while Biden is lost in subordinate clauses. Come on, Democrats, can you find somebody who can speak in complete sentences and yet connect with ordinary people without sounding condescending or radical? Somebody like...Obama?
12
@Mor I'm with you until you started talking about Warren and Bernie and then said "Somebody like... Obama?" Um. You mean the guy who ran on hope and change and 8 years later we were wondering when change was going to happen?
We are going to eventually have to find someone who can not only win election but is smart enough to solve our problems and will propose "radical" solutions like raising taxes so that we can solve our problems. You are likely talking about someone with a college degree and a progressive. And that doesn't connect with "ordinary people". I am sure we can find someone to make a compelling case to the American people. And we can find someone much younger. But at some point we do need to decide: do we want an ordinary person in the White House or do we want a real leader with real solutions in the White House? You can't have both.
1
@James For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, clear and wrong. These are the solutions proposed by the Sanders/Warren wing of the party. Real change is always incremental because we are dealing with complex systems that are easy to break but hard to fix. I am an immigrant and I lived in both Europe and Asia. Sanders and Warren are peddling a discredited and outdated ideology that failed every time it was tried. We need new, science- and technology-based solutions to issues like climate change and healthcare. “Democratic socialism” is not going to cut it. And voters are not stupid. They know it.
2
Or Pete.
1
I have no problem with anyone’s religious beliefs. I have a big problem paying for them. It’s long past time to end tax exemption for religion.
30
Hypocrisy comes in all colors and is nothing new. Whether you bristle at people who support the death penalty and claim to be "pro-life", or gag at those who want to "save the redwoods" but build an expansive redwood deck in their own backyard, inconsistencies in thoughts and beliefs are undeniable manifestations of human imperfection. Ivory tower academics need to understand that claiming the intellectual high ground may seem like "winning" but all too often there is a very slippery slope just beyond the finish line.
2
I'm an atheist. Every election I've ever voted in, I've had to vote for a Christian. Sometimes those Christians have said very negative things about atheists - buying into ideas like that we can't be moral, that we're mass murderers, that we're just all round terrible people.
Atheists like me have had to do this in the US on both sides of the aisle. It was a Democrat that used his power as Rhode Island State Representative to brand Jessica Ahlquist an "evil little thing" for standing up for the US constitution. It was startlingly unsurprising when he was later found to have been embezzling campaign funds.
Hillary Clinton when she ran had a long history of being at odds with the atheist community, and rather than follow in Obama's footsteps by reaching out to non-believers, worked hard to secure the Mormon vote.
In real terms it was fairly well publicised at the time that Donald Trump was in fact the less religious candidate between the two.
According to Pew Clinton won 68% of the religiously unaffiliated vote, and only 25% of the Mormon vote.
Pardon me if I do not sympathise with your sister, for her inability to do what we the godless have always had to - and vote not for the sake of her own good ego, but for the candidate she feels has the best policies to help the country.
Because that is what her sense of offense boils down to - putting respect for her beliefs before the good of the nation.
15
@Bruce Gorton
Maybe his sister thinks President Trump DOES promote the best policies for this country.
1
What exactly is this mythical "center" that Egan and everyone talks about here. Where a little racism is okay, but not too much? That Jewish persecution and attacks on synagogues are abhorrent and that's equal to trying to revoke abused tax-free status of evangelical megachurches? That healthcare should cover most American's is okay so long as I have mine? That the richest Americans should pay less in taxes than the poorest because you know they already pay a lot? That it's okay if public schools are falling apart and teacher have to buy their own supplies because I send my kids to private or parochial school - or my school district has enough revenue from property taxes to actually educate.
I don't get it - I have yet to have a moderate tell me what they stand for - other than the status quo - or maybe back to the way things were under Obama (as if that actually wasn't part of the problem). What about the above is going to convince Mr. Egan's sister to vote for someone other than Trump?
15
The Dems don't actually need those people. I don't think they should pander to them. They are not rational and believe in crazy stuff, so how do you communicate with them? The only thing you can do is sacrifice some of your own convictions because they will never change theirs.
Anyway, in fact, those people need the democrats, not the other way around. If they do not support the Dems, they will continue to be abused by the GOP. Something I think they like.
The democrats would be better served in the long run if they stop trying to include right wingers in the party. It seems rather confusing. You know, that they pander to right wingers and scold the leftists. Not a smart move if you ask me. Or maybe I am wrong, maybe the DFL is just a big right wing machine that is in place only to be the last defense of the status quo and our wealthy overlords.
6
I saw a farmer in the Mid-West tell a reporter that impeachment is all a scam and so on.
But he said one more thing that stayed with me: He said he really appreciates President Trump because he can understand what Trump says.
Could folks like him feel bad when the Democrats talk about subjects he can't understand, like the details of healthcare, immigration, etc.? Could that be part of what they mean when they say liberals talk down to them?
It is so painful to watch an amazing country getting dragged down into mediocrity and steep decline by a small minority who has oversized voting power.
17
@InTheKnow
These people are just as smart as you are. He means that President Trump actually makes sense.
Have you ever considered the cost of free college tuition if everyone went? (...and why wouldn't they, if it were free?) Right now, about 65% enroll and about 33% get a degree.
How about reparations to descendants of slaves? Not all blacks are descended form slaves. Some immigrated here well after slavery was over. Some people might only be 10% black, but 90% white...are they eligible? There are no more slaves.
How about paying off people's college loans? These people signed a deal (I'm sure they can read, if they were going to college), and now they want to renege and get someone else to pay?
Medicare for all is going to be paid for just by taxing the rich? Give me a break. EVERYONE will pay for that.
2
I find there is something condescending even in the term "progressive."
The majority of Americans don't consider the self-anointed "progressives" to be doing anything that will lead to progress.
10
@Daniel Metz
Hear, hear!
2
Every other wealthy democratic nation has outpaced America in every category other than Defense Spending and numbers of incarcerated, including our heath care where we pay the most and get the least for it in most of the critical areas of health and wellbeing measurement.
Nationalized healthcare is NOT socialism anymore than clean air and highways to drive on aren’t socialism (as it is defined by Trump, the Reps and Faux “news.”) Warren and Sanders are not advocating communism, but rightly challenging the perverse and growing gap in income equality and lack of social justice.
As for ignoring the cultural and religious belief systems of Middle America, we have waiting for them to get on board with basic human decency since the 60’s civil rights and women’s rights movements. Yet we had White het male sitting members of congress suggesting that Obama wasn’t an American citizen, and a media who talked incessantly about Hilary’s appearance and lack of likability.
1/3 of America doesn’t want to change, advance, or evolve from marginalizing and discriminating against women, People of Color, non-Christians and LGBTQ and thinks their ideas that this is a right, true and good way to believe and behave should be respected and honored.
And so, we have articles like this one that say progressive Dems should start to listen to what these “good people” have to say, respect their beliefs and behavior, perhaps even endorse it?!
I’m going to suggest that we aren’t the problem….
11
"Warren... could be more effective with these folks if she showed more of her daughter-of-a-janitor side."
During my many years in the work force, I worked both as a union-represented employee and a management employee in an industry that had to collectively bargain with a militant union, one that was quick to engage in wildcat strikes. Labor peace was maintained when management treated union-represented workers with respect and listened to their grievances. When management failed to be respectful and listen, conflict and animosity prevailed.
It takes more than good ideas and lofty plans to win both the minds and hearts of people.
7
But isn't it condescension of another stripe to assume that voters in these areas are "incapable" of self-informing? I think this issue has a feedback problem; either way you cut it, you are taling about a large (and apparently powerful) segment of the American population as if they aren't in the room. Shouldn't we instead focus on improving access to information if we feel there is a deficit? I really believe the way forward here is to make the conversation about info-access, and not just assume "they" aren't reading this paper, and we should all talk about what "they" think of this or that message. When politics becomes more about selling a talking point, I think that's where we get Donald Trumps showing up in our elected offices. We need an informed electorate, rather more than a curated set of ideas; though our founders were not working with the demography we are today, I think the spirit of what they intended can still work. A truly free citizen is one who can see through to the long term progress, and play the long game towards a free society.
2
@James The people we are talking about here have no interest in facts or logic. They want someone who will whisper sweet nothings to them while they vote for their own impoverishment.
I am centrist and a feminist who was very active in the women's movement in the 70s. What killed the movement was its takeover by doctrinaire radicals. Despite them, many victories for women were won and now, in the GOP War on Women, we may lose them. The right, particularly fundamentalist Protestants, took over state legislatures in the South and Midwest, passing anti-choice and anti-LGBT laws, suppressing voters and displaying their vast ignorance of science, politics, the constitution etc. They are elected by people who supported a right wing agenda long before Trump. Thanks to states like Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi, at the bottom of lists rating education, health, and economics, we are now in danger of being ruled by the most reactionary elements of our society. Do I look down on these folks? Yes. I do. I despise their self-righteous religious views and the hypocrisy that often accompanies it. I'm appalled by their ignorance of the world beyond their county borders. I try to have rational discussions in various social media forums or personal conversations but they always end up with disagreements, personal attacks and name calling. Their ignorance is invincible. I do understand and share their distrust of Warren and Sanders and The Squad. But don't ask me to have sympathy for these people or to stop calling them out. They are dangerous Fascists, attacking our rights. They won't be swayed by a change in attitude from the Dems.
8
Here’s a modest proposal: why doesn’t the media report less on identity politics and more on the egalitarian economic proposals of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren? I’m not talking about the Times, which is a newspaper for the college-educated.
Also if one of those two is nominated, the people of eastern Oregon will finally start hearing about the economic proposals timothy Egan is writing about. I do not buy the premise of this article. Woke progressivism is not the issue; lack of attention to economic issues is.
4
@jim guerin Because they are not egalitarian economic proposals. Bernie wants to change the whole system. Warren wants punitive measures against the wealthy. I sympathize with punitive measures against the wealthy, but I will not go there, that is a very bad place.
4
@athena Thanks. By egalitarian I meant to the 99%.
I could not agree more. If you want four more years of Trump,support the nomination of Elizabeth Warren. In addition to her ideas such as Medicare for all,her attitude will be a very hard sell in the battleground states. In addition,she could easily inspire Republicans who otherwise might stay home on election day to come out and vote for Trump. Her scariness and attitude could more than offset all of the awfulness of Trump in the minds of those in these swing states who have yet to decide how they will vote. A candidate who shows a willingness to listen and is respectful of those who do not agree with her on all of the important issues(including abortion) stands the best chance of winning and successfully governing as President. it seems obvious to me that Senator Amy Klobachar is the way to go.
3
Timothy Egan should investigate two theories that can help explain the people he's talking about and sympathizing with: Dunning-Kruger and the Chaos Metric in advanced democracies. The people he's sympathizing with fit into at least one and possibly both.
What we learn from each is that it is impossible to discuss with them facts and reason. Their fierce beliefs do not give access to empathy or rationality.
4
Excellent column. I'd also vote for a tree trunk instead of Trump, but as a center-left Democrat I feel like I have no party these days. Forget the woke stuff people, just get this disaster out of office.
13
@Don Davide "The Woke stuff" includes gay rights, police reform, immigration reform and abortion rights. So, tell us, which Americans are you ready to throw to the wolves for the sake of winning the "undecided" voter?
I'm a self-professed "progressive" who understands that not all change is progress born, raised, and residing in rural America. And I know that a lot of people who live in places like where I do feel as if the rest of the world is out of touch with them. But that's really the same exact thing as them being out of touch with the rest of the world.
And it's a world of over 7.7 billion people, each every bit as real as you who is reading this is. Each with the same 24 hours in a day. Each with the same basic wants and needs. Each with their own problems. Each with the same capacity for kindness and love we like to pretend only exists in whoever we count as an "us". And each with the same capacity for fear, anger, and hate we like to pretend only exists in whoever we count as a "them". Because everyone - "us" and "them" alike - hates who and what we fear is a threat to who and what we love. Love and hate are literally the same neurological phenomenon; two sides to the same coin.
That's also part of why I've met people from all over the world too mired in making the problems of others they happen to count as an "us" about themselves through empathy to instead learn universal compassion. Or too busy pointing fingers and casting blame for the world's problems to instead learn how to devise and implement practicable, effective solutions to them. Which is precisely what our democratic political apparatus is designed to allow us to work together to do.
4
I'm a self-professed "progressive" who understands that not all change is progress born, raised, and residing in rural America. And I know that a lot of people who live in places like where I do feel as if the rest of the world is out of touch with them. But that's really the same exact thing as them being out of touch with the rest of the world.
And it's a world of over 7.7 billion people, each every bit as real as you who is reading this is. Each with the same 24 hours in a day. Each with the same basic wants and needs. Each with their own problems. Each with the same capacity for kindness and love we like to pretend only exists in whoever we count as an "us". And each with the same capacity for fear, anger, and hate we like to pretend only exists in whoever we count as a "them". Because everyone - "us" and "them" alike - hates who and what we fear is a threat to who and what we love. Love and hate are literally the same neurological phenomenon; two sides to the same coin.
That's also part of why I've met people from all over the world too mired in making the problems of others they happen to count as an "us" about themselves through empathy to instead learn universal compassion. Or too busy pointing fingers and casting blame for the world's problems to instead learn how to devise and implement practicable, effective solutions to them. Which is precisely what our democratic political apparatus is designed to allow us to work together to do.
1
Simple math. Democrats need these voters, and so a gentler touch and a bit of ego stroking is in order. Is it fair? Absolutely not. But the broken electoral system demands that the needs of suburban and rural white voters be addressed before almost all others. We aren't going to fix that system before 2020, and without them it could be many generations before we get the chance.
Democrats are focused on 2020, but I wonder how many have stopped to consider 2024 or 2028. The pendulum swing is accelerating, and a Warren presidency would do nothing to quell the unrest that grew within the Republican base through the Obama administration. We all thought Trump was bad. I shudder to imagine what they'll elect after her. Great ideas like universal healthcare are in many ways completely irrelevant as long as middle America is being poisoned by the GOP. You can lead a horse to water, as they say. We need these voters to drink.
5
@Brandon Please demonstrate why "Democrats need these voters" before we start selling out our values in order to pander to them.
1
Timothy, you seem to be conflating progressive, Democratic policies that aim to provide decent opportunities for the many, not just the wealthy few, with a small, albeit overly-represented minority that you refer to as the “insufferably woke.” That’s a broad brush, and hardly a fair portrayal of how most Democrats I know think. This is a time to identify our common values—of which I believe there are many more than you suggest--not deal in divisive stereotypes.
9
@saxonsax "Timothy, you seem to be conflating progressive, Democratic policies that aim to provide decent opportunities... with... 'insufferably woke.' "
Agreed, but Mr. Egan is not alone in that. In fact, few if any commentators are making that distinction.
Example: There's a big difference between advocating for immigrants' rights on one hand, and being condescending and sarcastic when someone says "Latino" instead of "Latinx" on the other. But the failure of so many commentators to recognize the distinction is frustrating.
Of course, many progressives aren't helping their own cause, but that doesn't excuse the commentators, who should know better.
10
@Joe Please specify which Democratic candidate has been "condescending and sarcastic when someone says 'Latino' instead of 'Latinx' on the other."
1
@saxonsax , I don't think he's referring to all those you say he is. Maybe we should give this another read.
1
Timothy’s sister apparently has never heard the president say anything troubling, while her Oregon neighbors, friends and people she hears from make her feel bad. But the problem may not be them - it may be her.
If you want to demonize Senator Warren to almost any skeptics, note that she was a professor, let alone that she taught for a time at Harvard.
If you want to extol her to almost anyone with even a partially open mind, say that she is the daughter of a janitor.
Warren herself may not demonize anyone, but those who work in media or on campaigns will choose one of those two weapons.
Is it too much to ask voters - any of them - to see things for themselves?
If it is, sensible candidates are doomed, and candidates whose histrionics apparently don’t get the same scrutiny get a pass.
9
@Barry Yes. Mr. Egan is extremely vague about these "feelings" of his sister. It might help if we knew where she gets her news, for instance. If she's on Breitbart 24/7, I don't think you can blame that on Democrats.
2
It's also going to take, Mr. Egan, talented and informed communicators like you to lift out and share the key points from Ms. Warren's plans. And not simply site tidbits like what percent of voters have four year degrees. Within five years we forgot what we were taught in the first place. You're right to site Obama, but more importantly because he picked other really smart people to help implement his plans. They're too young to vote, but the children of swing voters deserve a more level playing field than simply a nice connection with their parents.
4
In my place of work, I hear upper level administrators speak with contempt about staff members and adjuncts all the time - you know, the people who make the university run and who do all the work that pays their bloated salaries. The further up the chain you go, the more Yale and Stanford and Harvard grads you get, and the deeper the contempt. It's about class.
Today I had a really delightful encounter with a construction worker - we were giving way to each other at the counter as we were leaving a coffee shop -- I let him go first and he held the door for me--he SAW me. And I thought, not one of those admin hot dogs would have been as polite to me as he is. Some republicans and democrats alike look at a man like him as if he is less than, and he knows it, just as the support staff know that the admins view them with contempt as well. It's all about class.
When people say universities are liberal, I practically choke. Look at their labor practices - they have their offices of "inclusion and diversity" but it's just empty rhetoric in terms of their labor policies. In other words, big deal if they respect your pronouns if they won't pay a fair wage or treat you, the full human being, with respect and dignity.
24
Pretending to put an end to the Democratic Party establishment's PC mania run amok, as a temporary electoral ploy only, would be unwise. The next Republican in the White House could be much worse than Trump. It could be someone actually wanting the presidency, and able to skillfully use its power, for more dangerous and destructive reasons than building a tower in Moscow, covering up adultery, hiding dirty money or evading jail time.
6
I'm having many conversations with fellow liberals coming to the same conclusion as Egan. The Woke Ones -- most especially my fellow white liberal "allies" exorcising their own guilt through virtue signaling -- ignore the basic fact that the votes of those they sneer at have the same weight as their own, more when you factor in the Electoral College. It's madness.
13
@CF
Yep. And one does not gain the votes of people whom they openly demean and despise. That’s it.
3
This piece is terrible.
I wonder what it would actually take to bring the author's sister into the Democratic fold. I doubt she would come. Voters like her have internalized victimhood much more than the people she decries (the "woke"). What if she is contemptuous of gay marriage, or expects that her religious beliefs will find expression in our politics? Is a Democrat supposed to cater to those views, at the expense of defending or protecting the marginalized or minority groups? Often these voters simply seem to be upset that other people now (rightly) demand the same rights and respect they've always had.
This piece is curious for other reasons. First, the article linked to states explicitly that there is "little evidence that any Democrat...has made substantial progress toward winning back the white working class voters who defected to the president in 2016." Well, that may include Mr. Egan's sister. So, are all the Democratic candidates condescending elitists? Second, the results of the poll suggest one of the biggest factors affecting these voters' impression of Warren is that she's a woman. What is she to do about that? Now, it is true that she taught at Harvard, but then didn't Buttigeg go there as an undergraduate? What's more, nowhere in the entire piece does Egan offer evidence that Warren has ever condescended to another voter, or treated them with disrespect. If someone believes that oysters sing, must I automatically accord that belief respect?
25
Totally Agree. There are so many gaps in Mr. Egan’s reasoning.
5
This is what is so frustrating. There’s an automatic assumption here that to be woke (i.e. aware of/working against systemic discrimination) is to be contemptuous of “regular people,” and that Dem candidates in general and Warren in particular are just virtue signaling and are dismissive of centrist or conservative voters - all without a single piece of actual supporting evidence.
This piece wouldn’t be accepted as a college essay. Why is this acceptable for publication in the New York Times? It’s just uncritically parroting (and reinforcing) the narrative that the GOP wants to push as part of its grab for more power.
1
I don't have much use for the "woke" mentality. I've got far less for what Egan is selling here.
Tell me, Mr. Egan, how does one insult a person or people who knowingly vote for a racist?
To me, this is pretty much a show-stopper.
20
So how does one talk to someone who believes the earth is flat (or that Trump is a good kind man with everyone's best interest at heart) and is offended that others think they are stupid for believing it? How to talk to this person so they retain their "dignity"? Smile, nod and say they're very smart when they spout patently provably false "facts"? Praise them for the sheer genius and perversity of their argument? Allow them to continue to believe inaccurate information with a pat on the head? Respect their beliefs even though that belief may put them and/or others at risk? Somebody EXPLAIN. With EXAMPLES. Because I'm not too proud to admit I DO NOT KNOW how to preserves someone else's dignity when they are WRONG except to assume they are intelligent enough to listen to reason when evidence is presented. But if they feel demeaned when others think they are wrong, how to get around that?
13
@ Hanns
Get out of NYC, set aside any overt evidence of snobbery and contempt, and encounter people as individuals. The goal of doing so is not so much to get them to change their votes immediately as to make them and their friends less angry at you. In this way, they are less likely in the future to vote against our common interests. and we become better people ourselves. Hate the sin but love the sinner. Hard to do, but the only answer to your question.
1
We aren't here to make our fellow citizens feel comfy anymore than they are here to make us feel good. Does the NRA ask its members to tone down their rhetoric in order to calm progressives' sensitive feelings? Does Ted Cruz ask his constituents to walk a mile in a liberal's Uggs?
This idea that political correctness is a weapon that is somehow akin to the bigotry, hatred, ignorance and misogyny that gave rise to it, is yet another way that the Times uses to neuter the Left, treating them like unruly children instead of the engaged and enraged voters they have every right to be.
What's next? Don't take to the streets - it'll hurt their commute?
16
"Talk to them. Don’t talk over them. Save the piety, the circular firing squad, the shaming on social media for after the election."
You are absolutely right. But you have to admit, it's hard.
Your average Democrat is a Democrat because of ideology, not clan affiliation. This means you are talking to people who have had the means, yes, but really the INTEREST in getting informed and whose view is global. You don't need an education these days to get information. You need Internet access.....and you need a heart. You need an ideology about fairness and concern for people outside your own home. Some of it is information, some of it is moral code.
So who, exactly, is voting for Trump at the moment?
- The willful ignorants
- The disinterested ignorants
- The racists
- The sexists
- The tribalists
Hardly an appealing bunch. So understand that you are asking the people who did their homework to take the time to talk to the ones who sit in the back of the room. Whether they are ignorant bullies, or mean bullies, or kids who can't bother opening a book--but all of whom are asking for the megaphone anyway. No wonder Dems are enraged.
In 2019, strict adherence to religion is akin to intellectual laziness. That's why some of us are struggling.
....but having family members like you describe, I will slow down my heart rate and try and speak kindly and gently, must as an adult must with a child.
.....and if that makes me "uppity" so be it.
6
Having read how children of immigrants frequently do better than children of native born makes me wonder, do the native born fear that their children will slide further down the socio economic ladder.
3
If it were just religion, why wouldn’t she embrace Buttgieg? Or is there maybe some other reason? Jeez, I wonder what THAT could be. We need to get rid of the Electoral College so we aren’t being held hostage by people who simply hate others for being who they are.
9
Exactly why Bernie Sanders should be our nominee. He absolutely speaks to every single American regardless of what state they live in, what god they pray to, or what candidates they voted for in the past.
3
Sanders doesn’t speak to or for me. He isn’t even a Democrat.
I’m a Democrat, but one that also supports and votes for sane moderate Republicans.
1
@Ronn Robinson Where exactly are you finding all these "sane moderate Republicans?"
Absolutely? Democrats, female New Yorker.....doesn’t appeal to me at all.
I'm skeptical. Sure, there are no doubt condescendingly "woke" types out there. I have some friends whose kids fall into that category. I also have liberal friends who cannot seem to grasp that other people see the world differently. But, among this latter crowd, nearly all would settle for Biden or another moderate. The reality is that the PC element is quite small, but conservative media discovered years ago that denouncing them was quite profitable. The fact that Timothy Egan's sister feels condescended to by "elites" tells us more about her than it does about Democratic voters.
13
My 31, 28 and 24 year old kids tell me they aren't woke, they're tired.
They have battles going on all sides just trying to get by.
My son, sporting graying hair at 31, got an OK boomer retort when he tried to tell his friend's 23 year old brother it'd be a bad move to keep posting partying Instagram of himself if he was thinking of using his degree to do more than wait tables down the road because employers look at that sort of stuff. OK boomer at age 31!
My older daughter told me she knows a woman she went to university with who is keeping track of all the perceived micro aggressions against her, which include, apparently, people who chew crunchy food near her because it sounds disgusting. My daughter knows this because she was eating a raw carrot at a lunch where this person was in the group. She told my daughter her eating habits were disgusting. Because she crunched into a carrot.
Not making this up.
When everyone is done beating up on each other's flaws in the woke world, Trump will be reelected.
Count on it because he is.
19
You're never, ever going to find those "moderate Republicans" that so many centrist Democrats believe in.
Tooth Fairy stuff.
Only way to win is to get a big chunk of the 46% who don't vote.
12
OK. I admit to wearing tasteful native American-style clothing to a Halloween costume party here in Missouri about 15 years ago. (In my defense, those are my real clothes. But - whatev.) Believe you me, I learned very quickly and in no uncertain terms - that's not appropriate. So, I'm woke - okay? Agree with the author. Democrats - get a grip. Swing back toward the center, where most of us live. We're boomers, but we can change.
3
If Egan's sister and her folks are anything like my father's rural/small town family they have been bitter and resentful of big city folks, non-whites, "scientists" and the like forever.
They were Trump voters back when Trump was just some rich guy's son.
The only thing that's changed is they now have a conduit of Fox News, talk radio, Facebook, etc convincing them the rest of the country hates them right back, when really, the rest of the country doesn't even know they exist.
Another lame think piece blaming the Democrats for not catering ENOUGH to people who are cheered to see the rest of the country burning is particularly unhelpful at this time.
19
@Jeffro
I wonder about the distinction between indifference and disdain. At some point, it seems to me that being oblivious to the plight of others amounts to enmity. Your remarks are so stereotypical, condescending and dismissive that you undermine your own central assertion. And though I would never vote for Trump, I know decent and intelligent people who do support him. I don't understand their motives, but neither do I dismiss them. No one I know is cheered by the misfortunes of others. But many on the right are cheered by the impractical idealism, paired with grating sanctimony, that seems increasingly central to the Democratic party, a combination that may well burn down any chances we have of defeating Trump next year.
1
I'll say it flat out. The "Egan's sister" type of voter is going to vote for whichever candidate want to ban 1) gay marriage, b) abortion, c) Muslims, d) immigration, or e) whatever their pet one-issue bugbear may be.
That voter cannot and should not be "persuaded" by any Democrat, because the only way to appeal to that voter is to promise to curtail someone else's human rights.
I'm not saying Egan's sister herself feels this way, because Egan has deliberately been so vague in describing her beliefs that it's impossible to know what she thinks. But in the broad sense he is describing a single-issue voter and there is no way to win over a single-issue voter except by pandering.
Human rights are basic, rock-bottom values in the Democratic party, and it's not worth abandoning all our values in order to pick up a few votes from bigots in swing states.
14
Agreed. But, we should begin by defining who those pesky “know-it-all” Democrats are. They are not the rank and file Democrats, not millennials, not women, not so-called minorities. This group of, people are on par economically and socially with the insufferables; indeed, they are the “radical insufferables” who’re trying to radicalize the system and jeopardize the “establishment’s” way of life - looting the patrimony.
We must announce publicly that the “establishment Democrats” are responsible for the canard against working families. The latter are mainly NYC-based and have little use for anyone not supportive of their “special interested” agenda that supports war with Iran, as if the Iraqi invasion had been a good choice for the nation, or the offshoring of jobs and industry that made them wealthy. The establishment is busy peddling the idea that only “centrism” can overtake Trump - all nonsense and proof that these people are only self interested, not thinking of the country’s future.
Please stop with the "woke" already particularly when you are misusing the term. Study after sociological study has shown that the working poor will not turn in their "affiliation" card with the powers that be not even if it costs them their lives. Living without health care is more than problematic. I also think what many are missing is that in addition to both the poor and the working poor there is emerging another group. They also feel disenfranchised and want things to change. These are the people who see income inequality, not from the east or west coasts or the C-Suites but from the level of crushing student debt, potentially never being able to afford to purchase a home or even rent one, working without healthcare and looking at the possibility of no children and not by choice. They are standing at the gates. Yet, who is listening to them? My communications professor would always say if your message is not understood by your "stupid audience" (meaning do not place the blame on them) it is you who have failed to communicate your message. So, if you are wondering why Elizabeth Warren and why Trump? Please do not blame your audience.
1
xEveryone here mocking those of us who are "woke," instead why don't you ask those who refuse to awake to the history of our country to leave their slumbers? How about they start with The Lost Cause that Built Jim Crow.
It very carefully lays out what white conservatives in the US did to deny black and brown people equal access, opportunity and protection under the law.
It's just so INSUFFERABLE of people who know and understand our history to demand that we all know our histories and show up better in order to live up to the words in our founding documents.
6
Who are these Democrats your sister is referring to?
Is it anyone she has actually met?
It's certainly not any of the presidential candidates.
Or is it a caricature she has seen/heard on right wing media?
10
I agree. Living in upstate NY brings me into contact with many hard working, down to earth people. They are not stupid, cruel or dishonest. They are not racist or xenophobic. They are concerned about making ends meet. For the most part these are good people. But they have trouble identifying with the radical progressive policies championed by Elizabeth Warren. They are aware of our president's glaring flaws but will vote for him if not given an acceptable choice. Many are confused and concerned about the deep divisions in our country and want to see healing take place. That will not happen with a Trump or a Warren. If the Democrats are unable to nominate someone who will appeal to the people of upstate NY, Trump will most assuredly be with us for a second term. So wake up people. Get out of your ideological cocoon. We need to win this election.
421
@Bill This is so bizarre. Warren's policies, such as universal healthcare, are proven, mainstream policies
- everywhere except America. It's the status quo in America that's radical and extremist.
103
@Bill It's interesting to those of us not living in the US that you'd consider someone like Warren a "radical progressive." Che Guevara was a radical progressive. Elizabeth Warren is a moderate whose believes in universal health care just like every other leader of every other developed nation. Do you think Angela Merkel or Boris Johnson are radical progressives, too?
114
@Bill
It’s true. Living in Upstate NY too - mostly Trump country. I think a portion of them ARE racists and xenophobes. The rest are ‘gettable’ and many (in both groups) would actually benefit from Warren policies. Certainly none got any benefit from the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy and are having to pay more for the things they buy at Walmart because of his tariffs.
The bottom line is Single Payer isn’t going to happen in a Warren 1st term. So why lose because of it. Promise to make Obamacare better - that’s actually improved in their eyes since Obama left.
I’ll vote for a stump against Trump but the best that can said for most of my neighbors is that they stay home if the Democratic candidate is too ‘left’. We may not need these upstaters - the downstate Democrats was much more populous and will carry NYS. BUT I bet they are not that different from the voters in Michigan and Illinois that we DO need.
59
Whoever invented the term "woke" should be severly punished. The word is like fingernails on a blackboard and we already had plenty of words in the language to describe the concept.
17
@arusso You are so right. Therein lies one of the problems attempting to trivialize the concerns of others as well as their positions on the issues. People have differing opinions and positions. It has nothing to do with being ( won't use that term) self-aware.
1
@arusso Such as?
Both Mr. Egan's article and many of the comments that it elicits are very thoughtful, even the ones that offer some degree of contradictory opinion. Ironically, in my opinion, the strongest Democratic candidate, was Mr. Egan's governor, Jay Inslee. But he was not rhetorically excessive. He was not bombastic. He conveyed thoughtfulness and sincerity and a record of seven terms in Congress and two meaningful terms as governor of a fairly large state. And he got nowhere in the polls. That should wake up all Democrats and all people who realize the danger of a second Trump term.
7
@rocky vermont
I agree with you, Rocky, about Governor Inslee. His age is good, he's highly intelligent, well educated, and has more administrative experience than any of the other candidates. And his focus was on the most urgent issue of our time--climate catastrophe--which will make all the other issues moot if we don't address it NLT January 21st, 2021. The one thing Jay Inslee didn't have was name recognition; the two or three at the top and some of the others have had their names out there for years. A sizeable proportion of our populace can't name the governor of their own state, much less a state they couldn't find on a map.
2
@R Nelson
"Mayor Pete" had even less name recognition and hardly any resume at all compared to Inslee's. Yet he's still a viable candidate, polling ahead of more experienced politicos in the centrist lane. Not sure how he garnered such a huge fan club, but I do wish Inslee was still in the running.
If you can't engage your sister in productive dialogue, why do you think any candidate can? Write them off and focus on turnout in your base. Depressing, but it's worked for Republicans and it'll work for democrats. 2016 was a failure of turnout driven by a lack of enthusiasm. Might as well try the other tack in 2020.
8
This problem is more than merely aggravated by the rise of social media. Most of us stay faithfully in our own little echo chambers, trading views on Facebook with like-minded, similarly educated strangers whose expressed views closely resemble our own.
It's easy to get the impression that all the "right thinking" people are on the same side -- "our" side.
1
You say: "I would vote for a tree stump if it could beat Trump."
If a Democrat wins, that's probably what you'll get.
A stump inside the politicians' bubble, mired in arguments about Medicare and everything else.
Outside that bubble is reality: We are in a spiral toward collapse of our civilization and our species' extinction.
From processes of climate change and shattering of biodiversity. Processes that we have begun and are still driving. Processes that have momentum to continue until we are gone.
But hey! -- It will be our grandchildren and final generations that follow who will suffer the horror of what we have done, and are still doing. Let's continue to argue about Medicare and elect a stump, inside the bubble.
3
@Dick Purcell So...exactly who do you think should be elected?
Re- talking to them, trying to find common ground. My sister asked me where I got my information. I told her. (A bunch of newspapers, primarily, and spending some time trying to dig deeper into stories on my own.)
It turned out I misinterpreted her question, as a friend pointed out to me when I recalled the conversation. He said her question was pure sarcasm, and that she was telling me I'm an elite snob [ because I don't think that any single news source will give anything close to the full story ]. This sister has told me -- more than once -- that she gets all her news from Fox.
I don't think it's possible to find common ground with someone calls everything she doesn't like "fake news". (I wonder where she learned that term.) Some people are unreachable. (I guess the reason this bugs me so much is that she's my own flesh-and-blood. It's somehow a lot easier to brush off non-relatives who stake out this position.)
10
I agree. As an immigrant, I've long been fascinated with Americans' oddly unwavering belief in being 'self-made' ... Trump may be the least self-made President in U.S. history [George W being a close second] but he knows the rhetoric and he uses it to his advantage. Every time I hear Elizabeth Warren go on about "billionaires" and Bernie Sanders yell about Wall Street, I cringe. They seem to forget that hating Trump and all that he represents doesn't mean we want to swing wildly to the left. Sigh. Thanks for the Faustian choice.
8
Their swing left is not a result of 'hating Trump', it is their views to which they arrived through experience and observation. They express these views and seems their views are supported by a lot of people. We already tried the centrism that brought us stagnated salaries, unaffordable healthcare, unaffordable education for our children and Trump. I think we should try other approaches, such as Bernie's and Warren's
1
Left my East Coast liberal bubble (college town in Maine) to see relatives who live north of Pittsburgh - Butler, Kittanning. Good people, proud, but beaten down now for years, Democratic and Republic administrations. Nothing seems to change for the better. The work is in healthcare (UPMC) and, outside of Pittsburgh, supported by the tax base: public education and local government. Sen. Warren might as well be Queen of the Moon as far as what these folks have seen so far (to the extent they even know who she is). I see trouble ahead for our party in this up-for-grabs state.
6
As a resident of the red, red side of my (and your) blue, blue state, I know that you are right.
Much as I'd like Medicare for all, that idea must come more slowly and carefully than some candidates would like if it is to accepted by a majority of voters. Much as we complain about our health care (and the only people I know who are satisfied with theirs are my Canadian relatives), any radical change is frightening for many.
I personally love Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren; they are outstanding senators. But Trump and his ilk are so good at stoking fears, especially among voters who feel less socially or financially secure.
2
It is hard not to be condescending towards those who vote against their own best interests. It is not "elite", it is just common sense. I assume your sister is not one of Trump supporters who would stay loyal after he shot someone, but she is not far removed from those who would. I suggest, for starters, that the Democrats would have to no longer support abortion and LGBT rights to win the hearts of those like your sister. Additionally, it is Trump's feeding on and into many Americans sense of victimization that has deepened the divisions among us.
5
Trump supporters demand what they refuse to give - which is respect for others. I"m sorry, but it doesn't work that way. And it never will.
17
The premise of this piece is entirely wrong. Next year's election doesn't depend on a relatively small number of wishy washy voters in swing states, it depends on getting Democrats excited about the potential for real change that will improve the financial security of a large swath of the nation. What we don't need right now is a ho hum middle of the road embrace the status quo president.
5
A significant slice of the voting population is militantly anti-intellectual and will vote against any candidate who is obviously very intelligent, even if, perhaps especially if the intelligent candidate is proposing policies that will improve the life of the anti-intellectual.
Clearly the Republicans have figured this out. Indeed they have managed to create an unlikely election-winning coalition between the anti-intellectuals and the very wealthy. And they have America's foremost anti-intellectual as their leader.
Elizabeth Warren's policies are a long overdue prescription to arrest America's 40 years of experimenting with 19th century capitalism. Warren has the capacity to be the female FDR and to rouse America to a new golden era. But to do that she will need to be much more open, inclusive, and welcoming.
I didn't know she was the daughter of a janitor.
If Warren's going to win, Tim's sister in Oregon will need to see the janitor roots.
6
Okay, we are condescending, we don't pay them enough respect, we treat them like Neanderthals: so what?! Why, do they respect us, our ethos, our knowledge, our aspiration for emancipation of all categories of people, regardless of the birth circumstances? For hundred of years they not only showed no respect for, but actually actively persecuted, millions of human beings whom they felt racially, biologically or morally superior of. Now they feel the sting of our contempt, of feeling marginalized in a rapidly-changing world because we can't afford to continue to do as our fathers did and put all the faith in God to take care of the melting planet. Boo- ooh! At least, thanks to those like us, they get to keep their voting rights, their Social Security and Medicare.
I respect their views and their right to hold them. What I can't find a shred of respect for in me is that they are so peeved of how we regard their belief system that they'd rather burn the whole house down, dismantle our Nation's leadership that took decades, lives and treasure to assert and maintain, empower a dissolute, egomaniac grifter to redefine morality and discourse in politics for the next generations of Americans, than to take a bit of scorn, move on and try to find the middle ground between us. They'd rather drown in their misfortune and misery and drag the whole rest down with them than endure the stench of compromise, step up to the plate, and send their own to Washington to work it out.
18
Sounds great, the gist of the article. Be kind to the humblest minded for, like The Meek, they shall inherit the Earth. They might yet come around to your point of view. Problem with that thesis is, you can’t reach them no matter what. I know, because I’ve tried. It’s tribal, of a clan/social caste sort. Their minds aren’t just made up but set in cement. Nothing you or I can say, or do, can breach their fortifications — reach them, let alone change them.
They simply aren’t listening or prepared to listen. My late mother would have voted for Trump in a heartbeat had senile dementia not beached her first — and for all I know she did at the assisted living facility where her age-ruined body was confined. While still semi-sentient she liked to tell anyone and everyone trying to tell her something, or persuade her to do something — and it could have been anything, really — “don’t confuse me with facts”, proving, I suppose, that Kellyanne Conway made her now infamous “alternative facts” remark she was on to something.
People such as my late mother do not seek enlightenment, nor do they wish to be intellectually stimulated or challenged, to expand their horizons. Rather, they wish to graze in familiar paddocks without reflection. They look for affirmation, confirmation, because their thinking is rooted in the past. Root-bound, actually.
Which is why “Woke” would not be my first choice to describe it, or them. Closer to “dead head”, intellectually somnolent.
7
There is no dignity in this country for hardworking poor people. The modern American ethic of the ownership society, i.e., you own your problems, so work harder, don't look to the government to help you. If you are poor, it's your own fault. Blame the Republicans for this extremist view, not the left. Democrats want to SOLVE problems, Republicans want to keep more of what's theirs from the "takers". It's hard for me to respect people who are victims of extreme rightist ideology and still vote for Trump and the Republicans.
3
@Repat
Take a look at some of the comments on this piece--it's clear that more than a few Democrats and progressives also harbor the "ownership society" view.
2
How about instead of saving the insufferable wokedness and social media shaming for after the election, we just get rid of it altogether? Elections don't stop in 2020.
4
What about respect for democracy? Majority vote? 40 million Californians vs 600k Wyomingers?
5
To Timothy Egan:
Let me apologize for the comments that have criticized your sibling who you love, for being a no-good, lazy, and stupid person. You took a big risk to put a member of your family out there as an example of a trumpet.
Some people who have responded seem to have forgotten that we are talking about a real human being with feelings and motivations who embodies the heart of every other human being who walks the planet.
In the age of social media and instant gratification, we humans have forgotten there is (usually, unless it is a bot) a PERSON out there, a living, air breathing, working, loving, embracing their beloveds, getting a headache, feeling hungry, lonely, joyous PERSON.
Your sibling exists as a real human being. And if more people could understand that all the people who are at the rallies, all the devoted followers of the current occupant of the WH who rave and chant and laugh and have a good time are REAL LIVE human beings with feelings, aspirations and joys no different than our own, well, then, maybe we could have a conversation.
I'm so sorry your sibling has, even indirectly, been treated this way.
It was brave of you, but knowing other humans, I beg you, don't do it again.
7
I am with you--with you--with you--one hundred percent, Mr. Egan.
Thank you for your piece.
I am mystified (sometimes) by Democrats--to whom I would say, "This is your election to LOSE. All you have to do is not BLOW it."
'Cause Democrats (at least in time past) have this unprecedented ability to shoot themselves in the foot.
I am considering, of course--or rather recollecting--that enormous swarm of presidential candidates that flew out of the woodwork when the whole election cycle got started.
What was it--twenty five? Are you KIDDING me? The White House only admits of ONE occupant?
But enough of that. The solutions propounded by some of these guys--worthy people and there's not one of them I would not vote for rather than cast a ballot for Mr. Donald J. Trump--
--but those solutions? Come on, guys! Not everybody is like YOU. Not everybody resembles YOU. Dear me, no.
Your advice to Ms. Warren--oh yes.
A dauntless public servant that really has fought the good fight for the financially unschooled--for the poor people--for the disenfranchised people--
--only she doesn't always SOUND that way.
So much gold lurking under that professorial exterior.
And Mr. Donald J. Trump?
Well gosh, Mr. Egan. He SOUNDS crass and illiterate and uneducated--
--'cause he IS all those things.
But enough of that.
Thanks for your piece.
You--uh--LISTENING?
You Democrats?
1
This quite obviously goes both ways: not everyone thinks that abortion is murder, not everyone thinks that x, y, and z are sins against God etc. So what if Elizabeth Warren perhaps isn't someone you'd like to go and grab a few beers with? (As opposed to say George Bush jr.) So, she's a bit of a schoolmistress, but hey she's only running for the most powerful office in the world! It's not exactly going swimmingly with the ludicrously unerudite spraytan poster boy in charge right now, is it? Sometimes it's good to remember that learning isn't just a fancy bit of paper that you can frame and hang up on the wall. Learning - so often despised by those who swear by the school of hard knocks - makes you better equipped to analyze and solve problems.
Yes, the insufferably woke don't seem to get along with the insufferably unwoke, which in turn is insufferable for the rest of us that constitute the majority of taxpayers and voters that want to see our communities thrive.
10
Yep, but there is no stopping the whipsaw. This is what the populists want and it is a sure loser.
2
I just read the Wikipedia article on the term "woke". Being an old somewhat isolated coastal definitely non-elite I still cannot connect the dots between the origins of the term and .....
Who are these supposed "woke" elites anyway?
Woke (/ˈwoʊk/) as a political term of African American origin refers to a perceived awareness of issues concerning social justice and racial justice.[1] It is derived from the African-American Vernacular English expression "stay woke", whose grammatical aspect refers to a continuing awareness of these issues. Thanks Wikipedia.
If a person is aware of social injustice, racial injustice, and by extension economic injustice and is attempting to remedy the same is that "woke"? And that is bad? How does that relate to Mr Egan's sister feeling disrespected? Does she recognize the difference between disagreement and disrespect?
Mr Egan what can the assembly of Democratic candidates say to your sister that will capture her attention and possibly her vote? What are they saying now that so offends her?
4
@AnEconomicCynic I wager 10 to 1 that what offends her so is "women have the right to safe, legal abortion."
1
I'm confused as to why "the woke" are causing so much consternation. Didn't the "non-judgmental" generation of the 70s or the "greed is good" young right of the 80s also go overboard? Doesn't youth always go overboard, in every era (save possibly in the immediate aftermath of bloody conflict or revolution)? Of course, if it's your lecture that is being picketed, you will be rightly upset.
The adults in the room should be trying, not so much to take sides, but to bear witness to a more nuanced view of history.
The question is how to defeat Donald Trump. The simple answer is to get more votes in more states than he has. To do that we have to turn out our base. Our base is not going to turn out for politicians who want to go back to 2016. They want change. That's why they voted for Obama and then changed to Trump. Hilary proved that. We need a change candidate not a let's have the same old thing candidate.
The New York Times is viscerally afraid of change. It is a center-right organization and Timothy is it's exemplar. Center-right isn't going to turn out the base. The far-right are mostly races who are not going to vote for the Democrats anyway because they think the Democrats aren't racist enough. If you want to win, you have to pick the candidate that energizes your voters the most. That's not going to be Bloomberg or Biden. It's gonna be a more progressive candidate. I like Mayor Pete and he might be able to fill that role, but Elizabeth will do fine to.
So let us quit pretending that a center candidate will turn out the base. It's counterfactual. We tried that with Hillary. It didn't work.
This is your best. I wish you were on location in North Carolina for about 10 years. I am baffled by the allegiance of Tarheels to Trump. Your insight and counsel appears to fit the Northwest perfectly but there appears to be another factor at work in the polls of the North Carolina voters.
1
"Many Democrats dismissive of her religious beliefs and condescending of her lot in life. "
I too have relatives who are very conservative Catholics. As a liberal agnostic, I am of the opinion that everyone has the right to practice their religion freely, but not force their beliefs on the rest of us. That said, it puzzles me that I have to consistently dodge conversational curve balls aimed at my head at most family gatherings because I left the tribe. What strikes me as odd is that Catholics and Evangelicals act as though they are "spiritually enlightened" yet diminish those who don't share their beliefs. Fox News has convinced them that the rest of us are threatening their religious rights. Ron Reagan Jr. has the right idea with his "Freedom From Religion" Foundation. As far as your sibling's lot in life, if she was my sister I would do what I had to do to improve it. As a Democrat I understand that religious conservatives prefer to be ruled by autocrats. They have been forever. We can't change that.
12
In the last year, I've gone from not believing this article's thesis to believing it firmly, I'm sorry to say. And I'm a liberal for Warren. It's heart-breaking, and may not only offend potential center or right voters but could split the Democratic Party itself. A disaster.
6
Every voter needs to be honored for their contribution to our society no matter how they cast their vote. Perhaps they will not vote as I believe, but honoring their right to say their opinions is valuable in itself and the only way to start a dialogue.
Our partisans on both sides have lost any sense of tolerance and in the heat of the moment I too have fallen into the trap of not listening. Compromise seems to be a dirty word these days and that attitude begins with a basic lack of respect for each other.
Am I ignoring the contribution of Trump and his supporters to this vitriolic equation? No I am not. I am only saying that if we are ever to get beyond this quagmire we need to start with respect for each other even in our deep disagreements.
2
I think Mr. Egan makes some decent points but like many wagging their own fingers at the “woke” what advice does he have for those that have been insulted and dismissed for centuries but are now being asked to be very, very careful to make sure that lower income rural voters perceive even a bit of the same?
3
@Jim Racheff , most "woke" people I know are rather young, educated or becoming so, fairly well off, and not especially minorities nor oppressed. And low-income voters and rural people are quite capable of being democrats and progressives, too. The stereotyping and contempt from some of the "woke" (not all) is at issue here. It's the attitude that the words and concepts they hold are pure and perfect, and that no one ever fought for justice and righteousness before. When literally millions (yes, even Boomers) have, or the world would be an even worse hell than it is. Tolerance of difference has been key to the very possibility of democracy. Tolerance is a value in itself. So the angry woke seem a kind of almost blind Puritanism, a hurry to blame and slur, even people of good will. Learning to have allies, to accept some disagreement, is crucial to our coming together to defeat those of ill will--that's paramount.
1
I went to a very liberal college as a deeply religious youth. I discovered that the liberals thought they were open-minded but were often hostile to people who didn't think like they did. Meanwhile, the Christians thought they were Christ-like, but saw the world as full of evil and classified others based on their various sins.
If both groups actually lived the virtues that they so loudly claimed, we'd all get along just fine.
8
How about we get rid of the electoral college and then nobody will have to cozy up to anybody? I'm sick to death of being told that I have to embrace somebody who despises me, where I live and how I live. The fact is I really don't care about people in the Midwest just like they don't care about people on the West Coast except to hate us. You act as if they're all just hanging out minding their own business instead of actively trying to take away a woman's right to make decisions about her own body or refusing to make somebody a cake or issue them a marriage license because of their "personal" beliefs. I really don't care where you live I just care whether you're a nice person or not. People who vote for trump are not nice people. Sister or not Mr. Egan. Let's just let the majority rule. That's what a Democracy is.
5
@Jenifer
And your going to get 38 states to agree with this how? And to get rid of Electoral college? You must have the votes of 38 States, there is NO other way to do so!
2
Nailed it. Excellent read.
2
Like this tweet from Liz Warren, for instance?
Thank you,
@BlackWomxnFor! Black trans and cis women, gender-nonconforming, and nonbinary people are the backbone of our democracy and I don’t take this endorsement lightly. I'm committed to fighting alongside you for the big, structural change our country needs.
I think it's safe to say that many voters, including many tolerant people who don't want to see any minority group deprived of the rights afforded to the majority, don't see this particular very, very minority group as the "backbone of our democracy."
There is woke and then there is woke, but this kind of insane pandering from Warren and the progressives in the Democratic Party will go a long way to getting Trump re-elected.
18
@Patricia
Exactly this!
This over the top pandering just makes an eye roll even among many (most?) Democrats, and makes it look like all she will do is play silly word games as a President.
1
To be fair, it was minorities who had to fight for democracy in this country, as their rights were always ignored in most shameful ways, including depriving them liberty, that the white folks have enjoyed always in this country. It is difficult to see the white people who went along with slavery and racial discrimination as a 'backbone of democracy'.
1
There's at least as much "virtue signaling" coming from the right. The difference is that the left doesn't have an identity crisis about it. It seems like conservatives can't get enough of playing the victim, which of course is the opposite of classic conservative values but totally on-brand, on-personality for the thin-skinned baby in chief. One of the strongest tools in the Fox propaganda arsenal is the tribe-bonding narrative of victimhood.
5
You sort of almost had me until you started in on the "bullying fringe" of the democratic Party, and its presumed equivalence to the bullying fringe of the GOP right wing.
Mr. Egan, your bullying fringe comes with semiautomatic weapons, mail bombs, torchlight parades and lots of shouting.Ours comes with an unfortunate "attitude," according to you. And you know, I'm not so sure about that attitude and the accuracy of your reporting. To me, this sounds a lot like the "spitting hippie" myth you probably believed in back when you were just a reactionary baby.
I've read through the first few responses and they're pretty much the same mythology you threw in as bait; like crying out to like. I don't mind arguing with someone's ideology; there's a structure and at least parts of it can be questioned. But your little myths and your claims of siblings, friends, army buddies, all with the wounds of primary source pain on imaginary display, are unarguable.
You are, in that respect, exactly like Trump. Little as you may claim to like him, without him you wouldn't have this cushy platform. You'd be fighting for bandwidth in the real world of the declining right wing. Your job is to explain Trump to us, not to sneer at us just so you'll look good to the kind of people who don't need to have Trump explained, now that they're selling him short.
3
@Tim "Mr. Egan, your bullying fringe comes with semiautomatic weapons, mail bombs, torchlight parades and lots of shouting.Ours comes with an unfortunate "attitude," according to you."
Lest we forget what ‘wokeness’ signifies to the opposing tribe …
The Southern Poverty Law Center has listed Maajid Nawaz—a reformed jihadist militant and still practicing Muslim—as an Islamophobe hate-monger. Lesbians, Gays and Bisexuals have been lately demonized—by Trans activists—simply for acknowledging (via the preference of involuntary arousal) a biological basis for sexual difference. At Evergreen State College, Dr. King’s vision of racial reconciliation was commemorated by barring white people from campus for the day; the president of the college was held hostage by campus activists and there was debate about whether or not he should be allowed to use the restroom—and he was craven enough to cave in to their demands. The list goes on ...
That's what "Insufferably Woke" really means. Maybe you turn a blind eye to these excesses. Admittedly, the excesses of right-wing militants make it all harder to see. But the dog-whistling to the decisively illiberal cry-bullys of the left's militant wing is, in large part, what propelled Trump into office in 2016. Ignore it at the peril of liberal democracy in America.
Anyone who would willingly choose to vote for someone because they "feel insulted and dismissed" by the other candidate is not someone who can be persuaded. They're someone who is choosing to be a lifelong victim because of their fragile egos. I think Democrats would be wiser to go for the moderate voters who can still be reasoned with.
7
Dear Tim - your sibling feeling that progressives have nothing but disdain for her and that's the reason she's going to vote again for Trump has NOTHING to do with intelligent, mature and rational thought. She "feels" disrespected - whether she really has been or not is another discussion - and therefore, like a petulant child, she's going to lash out at those she thinks done her wrong. You can quote facts and logic at her all day long but they will never change her mind. Quite frankly, I think she - like millions of diehard Trump supporters - will never change their minds. The ONLY thing we on the left can do is offer them genuine compassion and demonstrate that we are responsible, respectful adults willing to help them out no matter how much they hate us. We might reach a few, but a few is better than none. This is the only way back from the brink of all of this hatred and tribalism.
4
This article does a brilliant job revealing how sophisticated the trump propaganda machine really is. Again, we are forced to play his game because that’s just how brilliant he is. He dictates the game, the rules, and who the players are. He uses Fox News, lies, allies, and even his favorite, the NYT. This article is yet another trump move on the board game he created.
That we have to prove that it’s our party that actually supports working people is mind boggling madness. We may not have done such a good job representing working families but it’s surely better than the alternative, which works against working families. Trump and his party actually represent the wealthy. They want to give them the power or freedom to do whatever it is they want. Which is what trump has been doing anyhow.
3
@Bill,
There is no question that Trump only represents that wealthy.
However, if you are unsure about why the Democrats need to prove they represent working take a look at the comments on this piece. There are a number comments, including from self-proclaimed progressives, that look down on Egan's sisters because she is cleans toilets.
You cannot claim to represent working people if you look down on anyone who isn't a degreed, middle to upper-middle class professional.
1
Attitudes like this don't help
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/high-turnout-of-smart-voters-in-kentucky-terrifies-rand-paul
Trump voters may not be highly educated, but that does not make them dumb. They are responding to an unmet need in Trump's message - that the center and left have drifted too far away from the reality of their world, fretting over LGBT rights, college costs, etc far more than the fact that in large swaths of the country it is impossible to put food on the table.
4
@Groovygeek This is nonsense. The 'unmet need in Trump's message" is primarily to identify scapegoats to blame for the Trump voter's dissatisfaction. Instead of correctly identifying the problem as their own insistence on voting against their own interests, "Trump's message" is "it's all the fault of immigrants, gays and coastal elites."
The Democratic platform since 2007 has been clearly focused on improving all Americans' access to health care. Lack of this access is a primary reason why it is impossible to put food on the table. But Trump voters have perversely rejected this boon in favor of voting to bash other human beings.
The "unmet need" Trump recognized in the Heartland was a vindictive desire to tear down others.
@Groovygeek No, the proof that they are dumb is that they are Trump voters.
No side has the moral victory here. BOTH would rather bring the country crashing down around us rather than give an inch. Ultimately, we get the leaders we deserve.
I’m a lifelong Democrat. And I’ve never, ever been rich. I’ve had to work since I was 14, and I would never look down on or be condescending to anyone just because they work hard for a living. I have two college degrees, but I worked for many years with people with disabilities, and I know that a person’s education and IQ don’t determine their worth. I’m not a big fan of organized religion, but my parents made me go to church every Sunday, I still have spiritual and moral beliefs, and I would never disparage someone else’s beliefs.
I would just like someone to explain to me why, why on earth do so many people support this President who seems to have no moral code, who lies, cheats, steals, commits adultery, and breaks most of the other Commandments I was taught to follow? A person that my parents would have warned me not to go near? And the government leaders that follow along with him: why? What kind of country do you want this to be? I never wanted to live in a place like Russia, or North Korea. Why do you seem to want our country to be like that? My ancestors came here to get away from people telling them how to live, what church to attend, who to hate. I certainly don’t want to live that way.
I am afraid all the time now.
7
@Kristen Rigney I accept the challenge in the first sentence of your second paragraph. I am Black and grew up hard and fast in Newark, NJ. I watched paternalistic social programs destroy portions of my family. I got through college and law school on grants and student loans that I repaid in full. Ultimately, I worked at the highest levels of government, private law practice and Fortune 10 senior management. AND, I was able to retire at 50, able to donate my time to helping others. I have a gay daughter whose liberties I support. I would support abortion as a matter of state law, but do not believe it is a properly interpreted Constitutional right. I voted for Trump and plan to do so again. Why?
I oppose a federal takeover of healthcare. I oppose an open border policy on immigration. I oppose political correctness and identity politics. I oppose confiscatory taxation to enforce economic equality. I support limited government, the free enterprise system and appropriate punishment for crimes against persons and property. I oppose the agendas of most of the Democratic candidates and find the views of candidates Sanders and Warren to be antithetical to our founding principles.
And no one tells me what church to attend, how to live or who to hate! Not Donald Trump and certainly not Elizabeth Warren.
1
These comments are filled with the very comments Egan warns Democrats not to make else they alienate potential allies. If making people feel bad for beliefs consistent with their experience is more important than winning the White House, keep it up and see what you get. Ultimately, how liberals treat the people in the middle will win or lose the election. If you're truly woke, you are capable of being the bigger person in this situation.
3
Large numbers of us have siblings that will definitely vote for Trump. Timothy tries to attribute this puzzling behavior to well founded annoyance at the higly superior woke progressives they bump into. This clearly resonates with some people but is absurd. If Timothys sister were open to being reasoned with, we might expect her bother to be the ideal person. However, she, like most of our far out siblings, really likes the nasty brutish Trump supporters she associates with. My brother rails against liberals and brags about runnning them off the road with his pickup truck, knowing full well that I ride a bicycle everywhere. Does he hate me along with the "libs" he spends most of this time trashing, Not really. He comes to all the family gatherings with his many lib siblings and regales them with statements designed to offend them. Could he ever be convinced to vote for Warren? No way. He would lose his uniqueness.
3
Since when has someone who supports a single payer health system- the norm for countries such as the US- who supports making sure people get fairly for the work they do, who believes even the rich should pay taxes- been considered an over-the-top extremist? You're criticizing Warren's style for who she is, her personality and professional background. Has she ever badmouthed religion? Does she say that some types of labor are less worthy than others? I agree that there are ideological purists whose intolerance and snobbery are highly problematic. But I don't see that in any of the Democrats running for president. Rather, it is Trump and his Republican zealots who have brainwashed much of this nation into believing that those advocating for basic human rights are extremists.They will say the same thing about any one of the candidates. I am not sure what we as a nation can do to address this, and I am terrified about what will happen should Trump be reelected. But don't simplify the problem or the solution by suggesting it's pure elitism that has gotten us into to this mess.
2
For starters, may I suggest that the disciples strike the following sanctimonious, mendacious, and patronizing terms and phrases from their lexicon? As follows, in no particular order:
Speaking truth to power
Progressive
Intersectionality
Undocumented
People of color
White privilege
Binary, Non-binary
Safe space
Diversity, Inclusion
Social justice
Cultural appropriation
Trumpsters
Etc....You get the drift.
13
Yes, strike those words. Too big. Can’t understand big words.
@Susanna
Add to this: cisgender, Mx., Xie, Xem, Xer, etc.
If the Dems win in 2016 and return to shaming in the afterglow of their victory they will only prove the extent of their arrogance.
4
I can't quite see what's condescending or overly "Harvard" about Elizabeth Warren. Here's the most recent video I can find: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U_ggpSZqAg" I think people think she's an elitist because journalists and other politicians call her an elitist, not because of how she talks or what she says. If you listen to Republicans a lot you really could thing that Democrats call themselves the elite or something, but that's not true. Everyone know it's not true, right?
1
If you want to reach someone who isn't particularly listening, insulting them is not a good place to start. By calling anyone who favors restrictive immigration a "bigot" or those who refuse to accept the reality of climate change "ignorant", the converstion is over before it begins. If you want to reach someone who isn't particularly listening, insulting them is not a good place to start. By calling anyone who favors restrictive immigration a "bigot" or those who refuse to accept the reality of climate change "ignorant", the conversation is over before it begins.
2
I'm registered Democrat but Egan is completely correct in his assessment.
Earlier generations of Democrats such as Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson genuinely did seem to care about the working class but I'm not sure the same as true today.
The party cares a lot about people who are educated and middle to upper-middle class but what about people like the columnist's sister?
Do their lives have value or are they just losers who didn't try hard enough in life or get an education?
I think people like the columnists sister have value--your job does not determine your moral worth.
Unfortunately, if the comments are guide, a lot of people (including self-professed progressives) think otherwise in a mentality is really not all that different from the Republicans insidious "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality.
As far as being "woke" goes issues like sexism and racism are real but labeling everyone who disagrees you as sexist or racist is unfair and counterproductive.
5
You write "Many Democrats, she says, are dismissive of her religious beliefs and condescending of her lot in life."
And then you say "Pete Buttigieg, looking to pick up the moderate left vote if Biden falters, has already taken Obama’s lesson to heart."
Wouldn't your sister dislike Buttigieg because he thinks (as do I) that it's fine for a person to have a gay partner? Wouldn't she think that he is "dismissive of her religious beliefs"? Seems to be a bit of a contradiction in what you're saying...
5
This article is a classic double bind. If I point out the sexism* inherent in our culture's perceptions about whose tone is condescending, and the impossible position that puts female candidates in, the author can just accuse me of being "insufferably woke."
*For example:
1. Warren and Sanders are both firm advocates of Medicare For All, but Warren is the one being accused of a “my way or the highway” approach that is "condescending" and "elitist."
2. Suggesting that "Biden, Obama and Nancy Pelosi...all show that the best way to rid this country of Trump is for Democrats to dial back the condescension," ignores the fact that Pelosi's job approval rating is less than 40%. She, too, has been called "elitist" over and over again.
3. The author highlights Warren's previous position as a Harvard professor as an example of her elite status, but compliments Harvard graduate and Rhodes Scholar Pete Buttigieg on being down-to-earth.
3
Yeah, this. Thank you Timothy.
Actually I'm becoming far more outraged and disgusted by the oh-so-self-certain but actually dubious self-loving political innocents also on the left with me but to my left. They have no doubt contributed to the election of right-wing populists both here and elsewhere. Both in the US and my country we are not into the murder of the severely intellectually handicapped. Go figure. We respect their common humanity with us despite their disability. Thus, all the "woke" should obviously similarly respect those of roughly average intelligence, who actually manage to hold down a job in menial labour or customer service, for instance, despite whatever despicable opinions they may hold, for goodness sake. Evidently this requires some forbearance even I who know better fail to demonstrate sometimes - I mean, forgive my imagining of egg running down oh-so-many smug nuevo extreme left identity-politics-loving faces at this point. Obscured by their carefully cultivated supposed morally perfect self-image, there's dim awareness of their own and other's human finitude and fallibility I'm sure. I wonder how they feel when the boot's on the other foot? Perhaps I shouldn't care? Maybe their only sub-human? Oh the irony.
In contrast to what others may think, let be known that politics is inherently a dispute and contest regarding the appropriate size of governments, allocating social goods to all regardless of sex, ethnicity, creed (etcetera) - and opinion. Duh.
1
Did you ever hear the one about the Republican who had his healthcare taken away by the person he voted for? Yeah, me too. And I'm told he's going to vote for him again next year!
3
The Democrats are supposed to disavow the most strident defenders of the party's core beliefs because such people hurt the feelings of the voters who would benefit most from Democratic policies. (What could be more condescending than thinking white working class voters need to have their feelings coddled so they'll start being rational and voting their interests!)
Meanwhile, Republicans gleefully court the racist vote with coded language, the xenophobe vote with explicit language, the anti-gay vote with fake religious language, the anti-woman vote with... well, you get the picture. All that, while they stick it to their voters with their unpopular policies.
Doesn't really seem fair, does it?
4
The 'far-left' has been co-opted by conservatives, and I just assume they are getting paid by the Republican National Committee
Google "Sean Spicer Feel The Bern" and you'll understand just how long this ruse has been going on for ( 2015 )
Unadulterated hate trumps logical conversation everytime. Don't even bother. Go to your local cafe, community college or mall and volunteer to get more people to registered to vote.
1
Well, of course this article is correct. Do the self-proclaimed woke care more about winning than they do about virtue signaling? Time will tell.
4
In the beginning...of the TV age, our predecessors recognized the potential problems associated with this new technology. For one, mass media being used as a propaganda tool.
So remind me, why did we do away with the "Fairness Doctrine!"
Reinstate it. Then let's see what happens......
1
Totally agree with this article. I'm a millennial and some of my friends are in over their heads. I'm totally for social equality, cheaper healthcare, and the like, but some people, especially people around my age (I'm 24) seem to think that free education and free healthcare and free this and free that are no-brainers, but can't really formulate how we would be able to implement this.
The other thing is, PC culture has completely eliminated any rational debate. I cannot even count the number of arguments I've been in or watched from the sidelines where all people do is shout and cry because they feel offended by an opinion that they don't share, and feel that the only way to deal with this situation is to scream in their face and tell them they are "toxic to society".
Frankly, I consider myself a progressive and on the left, but lately I've become more annoyed with what I think is aptly called "alt-left" behaviour than with the "alt-right". It's so frustrating to see people who technically have the moral upper ground (I mean who can argue against equality for all? Better healthcare?) behaving so irrationally, taking things so personally like everything is about them. We could be making way more progress at a faster pace if we learned once again to accept opinions we don't agree with and learned to have rational conversations instead of losing our heads.
9
So she is willing to kill the country to save her feelings.
4
Oregon boy here. Sorry, after 40 years of blaming myself for "elitism," I'm no longer buying this narrative. Nobody was more down-to-earth than guys like George McGovern and Fritz Mondale, and the rural heartland voted against them in droves. And who are these insufferably "woke" candidates? Warren talks about her working-class roots all the time. If your sister isn't hearing that, it's not on Warren.
5
Ok I want the democrat to win the next election. That is how I will vote.
But there is one delicious thing about a Trump victory that I can not honestly deny: the bullying 'woke fringe' on the left is REALLY annoying in it's 'holier than thou' attitude and seeing them disappointed is VERY satisfying. Seeing them constantly triggered is something the right just loves and I get that totally.
So that will be the fun thing if Trump is re-elected. The pleasure will not last for me, but that flavor will be there.
The pleasure will not last because I want an end to the general headache where all this tension and anger is painful and exhausting.
But if it happens, there will be that one funny side of it. Call me a bad person or a nihilist or whatever, but that's the truth.
7
There is a lot of stereotyping going on with resulting animosity on both sides - Trump supporters feeling they are looked down on and resentful of "liberals" they have been primed to hate and Dems beyond frustrated with people whose views they abhor. Neither can identify with the other side. No wonder the Trump supporters love him - he makes them feel validated and appreciated and some of his luster (in their minds) rubs off on them. No wonder the Dems are driven crazy by the Trump voters whose views they abhor and whom they believe can ruin the country with their political clout, despite being in the minority.
I wish I knew how to stop the polarization and wish the leaders on both sides would stop feeding it and instead work toward some reconciliation. The Dems have a history of looking out for the less powerful and perhaps it is now time to prove it by engaging in dialogue and presenting policies which are clear and meaningful to people like Egan's sister. It will be hard to get those like her to listen when they are fed a steady diet of Fox news but they need to start now.
It's so interesting to me that we are still playing this game of "how to pander to the 2% of the electorate in three or four states that will probably determine this election." No matter that a substantial majority will probably vote for Warren if she is the nominee, as a substantial majority voted for Clinton. No, we must only worry about middle class white people in the suburbs of Pittsburgh and Milwaukee, because we are evidently permanently stuck in an absurd electoral quagmire that encourages game playing of all kinds.
1
My brother is woke. He's woke to Alex Jones and the idea that Michelle Obama is actually a man. He's woke to the idea that climate change is a hoax. He's woke to Holocaust denial and the fact that we landed on the moon.
What makes him and those like him less insufferably woke than liberals?
12
Absolutely one of my favorite quotes of late: "I would vote for a tree stump if it could beat Trump." Love this essay, and support the outlook. We are going to have Trump again if our progressive friends can't figure out a way to meet everyone in the middle. I hate to say that they are acting like the Republicans. Different issues and outlooks, but same playbook. Most American's really just want an effective government, looking to do the best they can for most people, without corruption or greed. Maybe have the ultra rich pay a little more to help the less fortunate. I think that sounds like "moderate".
5
The simple fact that Trump was elected President because many Democrats and Republicans do not believe their party represents them has yet to be acknowledged. There are political currents in our society that are shunned by elites in both major parties.
6
Sadly I agree. Many Trump voters seem to suffer from social status anxiety, and while we on the left pour salt into their wounds, Trump knows just what lies will sooth them. So yes Democratic leadership appears to many as an insular Ivy League PC purity club - focused on the latest acronym laden policy pronouncement or snowflake issue and seemingly unconcerned about practical problems facing the working and middle classes - while that could not be further from the truth! And yes they also come off as dismissive and disrespectful to the very voters they need to attract. This is why so many Trump voters still support him, why they bask in his lies, and why they vote against their own interests. Does Trump really respect them - of course not. Given his undisciplined public persona I'm shocked that we have yet to hear Trump's lonesome Rhodes, live mic moment.
Neither Warren nor Sanders can beat Trump. It is that clear and that simple, and has been for a long time. I pray that neither gets the nomination.
2
I get the major thrust of the argument here that elites are unable to understand why someone might vote for Trump, and its clear that from the comments that this is a widely held view. But its not a fair extrapolation to dismiss Elizabeth Warren because of this view. It is clear that she is more than aware of her roots and that her policies, however wonky, are constructive, right-minded and certainly not condescending. Its ironic that multi-billionaire Bloomberg may enter the race to overcome the perceived shortcomings of Warren, whose brothers are former Marines and who dropped out of college in Oklahoma at age 19 because she was pregnant.
1
I'm sorry, but these people are not mostly bitter because of condescending attitudes from others, they're mostly bitter because their lives are a mess and they're looking for someone else to blame.
No matter how much you try and be understanding with people like these, you're not going to change many minds without changing the mess that they face every day. And that, my friends, is not going to happen in a year or two...it'll take a generation.
Republicans are in charge where these people live, have been for many years, and have been taking advantage of them for every one of them. But they don't see the connection between that fact and the challenges they face everyday because of it.
They're too lazy to do anything positive for themselves and would rather not be reminded of it and go on attaching themselves to demagogues who preach to their anger.
I am not going to made to feel guilty about them feeling bullied. It's not in my job description.
The only thing to do about these people is to VOTE Democratic and hope future Democratic administrations somehow gradually give them hope for better lives.
7
I have balked at articles like this one so many times I've lost count. But against the backdrop of this particular 2020 primary and the unparalleled stakes we face, Mr. Egan's piece rings true.
We of the far left -- who have so often railed against the need to triangulate our votes with those of some imaginary, less-educated, less-tolerance Red State Other out there -- risk throwing the baby out with bathwater on this one.
My ultra-liberal values teach me, above all else, about compassion and compromise. This doesn't have to mean toning down my defense of immigrants, of poor people, of the health of this planet. But it does mean opening my arms with humility to those who could help us get those things done.
I've long supported Elizabeth Warren. She's whip smart, dedicated, and reflects my views. But lately, her overuse of the word FIGHT is starting to grate on me. I'm tired. We're all tired, and the last thing I want now is a fight -- especially with this much at stake!
I urge Senator Warren to tone down the vitriol and reach out a hand to the other side. Her recent Medicare for All plan was a (missed) opportunity to shift to the center, and to assuage the very real fears of most Americans. There may be other chances, but not many.
Please, Senator Warren -- don't abandon the Realist Left to vote for a soggy piece of Wonderbread like Joe Biden!
2
Among the Democratic candidates, Bernie has the most support from white working class voters because he talks about nothing except how his policies will help everyone, and never insults anyone. He appears to be exactly the kind of candidate you want, Mr. Egan. So why do you see only a contest between "moderates" and Warren?
One must work to cultivate grievances, in order to take seriously the insults attributed to so-called "woke" people. Where are the left-leaning types who denigrate conservative Americans, and in what number? Certainly, there are not enough to keep a left version of Fox News afloat, or support a constellation of similar talking heads. Why does Mr Egan's sister think that people with views similar to mine, as a general practice spend time running down people like her?
Everyone is important to themselves; but that doesn't make their opinions or beliefs important to others. Mr Egan's sister probably has politics very different than mine. Common decency requires that I respect her right to her views. I have no obligation to find them congenial, or even pretend to do so. What is she upset about?
6
Someone may believe that "many Democrats ... are dismissive of her religious beliefs and condescending of her lot in life" but that is no excuse for voting for Trump. If that's your perspective then vote for some other conservative and/or Republican. If there isn't one on the ballot then write one in as a statement of principle. But there is no principled reason to vote for Trump not matter who is on the ballot opposite him.
3
The real tragedy Timothy is that great majority of hard core Trump are imbued with racism and willful ignorance. I come from a working class background and have worked as a laborer in a
foundry and the trades.
They have been fed Fox News and willingly sop it up. They embrace the notion that their problems and the problems of
America come from below. And they are happy to rage on about
immigrants, minorities, and the underclass.
They stubbornly cling to these notions despite being hit with the
truth right in their faces.
A few will finally abandon Trump. But most have been consolidated in what might be called an incipient Fascist base.
The Uber woke can be insufferable at times but they are not the
root cause of Trump’s support among sections of the working class, rural poor, and small and medium businesses.
M
10
@Michael I come from a working class background as well, and I still currently work in a blue collar field.
This author is woefully naive for not seeing these "salt of the earth" people for what they actually are: budding fascists. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard people advocating for essentially a dictatorship, throwing addicts out of airplanes, murdering Muslim people, calling people the n-word, saying black people are like monkeys, and so on. I dated a black guy briefly and I was called a race traitor and disgusting. Fox News has happily fed what is, in essence, the miserable cultural legacy of the Confederacy.
This is exactly what Mr.Eagan is referring too.I work with hard core Trump supporters and fortunately your dead wrong.These are men and woman in relationships with people of color!They work in an extremely diverse culture of Latinos,African Americans,Transgenders and Jews!I should know I work with these people. I’m proud to work with them!Their not racist!I guarantee you that they have more contact and relationships than most of the progressives in NYC!I voted for Hillary,I’ll vote for the Democrats again.This progressive self righteousness has to stop.Boxing people into groups and condemning them is wrong and will only deepen the divide!
Communication is a two-way street... no one can be expected to clear a traffic jam on someone else's end of it. And no one can be expected to prevent anyone else from feeling condescended to, either. I also believe you'll find that the more a person wishes to feel superior to others, the more easily they're made to feel condescended to.
Each of us must do our best to understand others and what they mean to communicate, however they communicate it. And do our best to communicate with others in a way that they'll best understand. But collectively we've grown selfish, self-centered, and thus far more interested in feeling understood ourselves than in learning to better understand anyone else, anything, or even ourselves.
1
Bullseye Mr. Egan. In the mid 1960's, satirist Tom Lehrer prophetically captured the woke generation's zeitgeist in the age of Trump when he sang "He may have won all the battles, but we had all the good songs."
3
What do you call it when someone lights themselves on fire and then blames everyone else? A Trump supporter.
Trump supporters want the majority of us to see them, not as who they are - which are enablers of their own destruction - but as how they would like to be seen - which is as a bunch of victims of the "coastal elites".
Well, I've got some news for them - It's not going to happen.
The reason they're suffering isn't due to "coastal elites", it's because they continue to vote against their own interests, again, and again, and again. Them. They do. Not Democrats. Not other people. Not immigrants. Not intellectuals. Not the rich.
They do it to themselves.
Now, with this in mind, where should the majority put their empathy and compassion? With the enablers? Or with those who didn't vote for it in the first place?
12
Mr. Egan's sister doubtless voted for the Second District's Rep. Greg Walden whose so-called health plan would have immediately stripped 300,000 of his own constituents of heath insurance.
She may well be unreachable. By her brother's own account, she sounds less like she's been listening to actual Democrats, and more like she's glued herself to the distortions and lies of FOX and Limbaugh about "woke" culture. In fact, one more often hears "woke" from Putin's trolls than from any Democratic candidate. If 30 years of Reaganomics haven't convinced her that the 1 percent are getting away with grand theft of the middle class, one has to ask what would?
As Tom Jefferson pointed out two centuries ago. "In a Democracy, the people [like Egan's sister] get the government that they deserve." Regrettably, that includes the rest of us Second District residents picking up the tab for these benighted Republican policies.
13
@Solar Power
Walden is retiring! But his replacement will surely be another right-winger.
1
All this talk about "wokeness" would be more productive if the term was placed in some sort of political and social context. "Wokeness" can be explained as the long gestating reaction to the real racist slights and sufferings of minority groups in this country. None of this is out of the blue. Since the 1970s the Republican party has used race as a straw man in presidential elections. They have conditioned a significant percentage of the electorate to view the "others"- be they poor, immigrants, black and brown, LGBTQ, etc. - as troublemakers, "takers," and not real Americans. Now, these same beleaguered groups are demanding a voice, respect and a seat at the table, on their own terms. I'm not surprised by the anger and resentment by some on the right. When you've always had a seat at the table being asked to make room for another chair can feel like a come down.
6
Two things that concern me about Warren's and Sander's campaigns is one, the continued use of the word "fight" or images thereof that suggest that their proposals will envolve combat and conflict. The other number, two, is their insistence that whatever ails the lower classes it is the fault of the plutocrats, the rich and their greed are to blame: for poor highways, bad schools, poor health or inadequate housing. I do not think such a strategy will win many votes or beat the republicans next year.
1
You do have to break some eggs to make an omelet. In Crawford county, Bernie would surely do better than Warren (who seems too uptight and vindictive). Bernie has a common sense way about him that was actually well received in 2016. Tulsi Gabbard, who can really bring people together, would be very popular here if her own party doesn't shut her down.
What I heard from Democrats in 2016 was that everything was mostly going right and if things weren't going well for you it was your fault. People in the middle of the country didn't have the skills or knowledge to be a part of a 21st century economy. The Democrats were going to retrain them and give them the basic skills to get an entry level job that wouldn't support their family.
Doesn't seem surprising that those voters turned away from Hillary and the Democratic party.
Sanders and Warren make a totally different point and, I believe, a more accurate one. The system is rigged against the middle class. And they want to do something about it.
But we can not just retreat to feel good statements . The country and the world is facing a crisis. We have contributed to that. We, as a country and as individuals, need to fix things. We won't get started if we just tell people what they want to hear.
4
This article points out what is desperately wrong with our electoral system--that a handful of white working class men in a few states will determine the next president. These "victims" may feel ignored, but it is the great majority of people who are not white working class men who are in fact being ignored. After all, Clinton won the popular vote by an historic margin.
12
I think Mr. Egan is not understanding the power of propaganda.
Fox News has such a strong hold on people like his sister in Oregon no matter what sense coming out of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren's mouth. Nothing they say will register with her apparently.
I know people who ARE ALIVE TODAY because of Obamacare and yet they will probably not vote for the Democrat. How does that make sense? If we pursued Egan's approach, we never would have had Obamacare in the first place - we would all still be suffering under our previous medical monstrosity.
I don't agree with Egan - we, the ones with sense, have to keep pushing the correct message and not try to explain things to people like Egan's sister. If Mr. Egan, an eminent NY Times columnist cannot knock sense into his own sister for heaven's sake, how is a Democrat candidate supposed to?
9
@Sirlar
The point Mr. Egan appears to be making is for the Democrats to stop insulting anyone who doesn't toe their line. How hard is that to understand?
As for the "Wokeness" well, the Democrats are pushing that with all they have. If you do not agree with "Medicare for All" or "Free everything" College, et.al then you are "one of them" and to be derided.
Political Correctness has truly run amok and I believe that it will destroy our Country. Empathy is what is needed. Stop insulting people by saying that they are "blinded by Fox News." You might as well tell them that they are stupid, useless human beings and we have no use for you. Considering that the majority of these people are not on the East or West Coast could spell doom for the Democrats next year.
A little empathy can go a long way. Stop the insults.
5
@Rozie Now if you could include even one example of how "Democrats" are "deriding" anyone with their "Political Correctness" "run amok."
2
@Sirlar
“We, the ones with sense....”
‘Free’ health insurance and sanctuary for millions of illegal aliens and their offspring (aka de facto open borders)...$Billions in student loan debt transferred onto the backs of taxpayers...Slavery Reparations...‘Medicare for All’ and the end to private healthcare at $30+trillion...
The “ones with sense”....LOL.
One might wonder how much of the sense of disrespect Mr. Egan's sister feels comes from within. She has to know that many folks would think to themselves, Thank God I didn't end up cleaning toilets at Walmart. Perhaps she assumes others will disrespect her work, especially if she doesn't respect it herself. We all need to feel that our work is meaningful, and that we are respected. Those seemingly lowly jobs are essential to the well-being of all of us, and they should be respected and paid accordingly.
Turnip has slyly played on the uncertainty and fear of loss that many people feel when they are ill prepared for change because of lack of education or contemporary skills, loss of work, illness, or money troubles. It's easier to blame their situation on others than to accept that they themselves may not have the flexibility to succeed as they had dreamed.
Voters for Turnip see the "woke" as more sympathetic to immigrants and the non-white minorities than to struggling rural whites, and they may be right, but perhaps they should consider that the "woke" are unsympathetic to what they see as racism and bigotry.
5
" . . . a word to Democrats: Talk to them. Don’t talk over them. Save the piety, the circular firing squad, the shaming on social media for after the election. Otherwise, the woke will wake next Nov. 3 to a tragedy."
My tradesman husband has to work with a Trump supporter who blathers on throughout the workday, repeating the same lies and Fox News talking points over and over, ad nauseum. My husband has also be threatened by Trump-supporting co-workers while at work because he refuses to rise to their bait. That's not only "insulting and dismissive"; it's dangerous. Does Mr. Egan have any pat answer for that?
I'll "talk to them" when they stop cheering when Trump threatens to jail or harm or kill people who disagree with him. The idea that Democrats and progressives "dismiss" and "look down" on people like Mr. Egan's sister is a product of Fox News propaganda. It's also a lie. That she chooses to believe lies says more about her than about Democrats or progressives; that Mr. Egan appears believes this as well is disappointing.
For once, I would ike to see an article telling Republicans and conservatives to "reach out" to people outside of their bubble. Since 2016, I have yet to see one. I'm sick of being told that I'm the bad guy because I have no interest in confirming the willful ignorance, bigotry and mean-spiritedness that seems to be part of the defining characteristics of many Trump supporters. They're the ones with the problem.
11
So, in other words, trick conservative Americans into thinking Democrats won’t totally destroy them for their traditional views on religion, sexuality, and the family until after the election? No thanks. I’ll stick with Trump.
8
I have had more than my fill of stories detailing the plight of economically challenged and marginalized white folks who need to be courted so they will stop hating smart and successful people.
If they want to vote for an abominable human being who could care less for them, so be it. It could be they are just not smart enough to do what's truly best for them.
I don't speak for Latinos, just for myself. I can't seem to recall white progressives worrying themselves sick about how we were going to vote. BTW, we have always lived at the margins of mainstream America. Forever we have been regarded with racist disdain or crippling patronization.
I for one, and many fellow Latinos I know, have had to accept this grotesque reality as just part of living in the promised land.
We have actually normalized the utterly abnormal. So many of us are citizens, but we are of the second-class variety. No matter if we have college and post-grad degrees, we will not be just regular Americans.
And it's become okay. Not great or desirable, but okay enough to get on with our lives.
4
Just a thought given all this political divisiveness: Perhaps, instead of two opposing investigations, Trump and Biden could duel in an over 70 tennis competition. The site could be a tennis court at Atlanta’s federal penitentiary. The venue would give each side in Washington their wish, as, both candidates would be seen confined to jail, if only momentarily.
2
Spot on!
I'm reading the comments here and some Dems just don't want to believe Mr. Egan. I think it's hard to be confronted with your own blind spot and realize that you may be part of the problem.
No matter how much one might believe that he/she is right, each person is responsible for approaching people with humility and respect if we want to be able to persuade them, influence them, and ultimately win elections. Don't like it? Too bad. That's reality.
Yes, it's hard. Obama said "Change is hard and change is slow." But it is doable, as he did!
6
@Independent still Some Dems (including myself) don't want to believe Mr. Egan because what he says is unbelievable. He offers not even a single instance of a representative of the Democratic party "insulting and condescending to" the working class, instead evoking some vague bogeyman called "the Woke."
Perhaps instead of asking moderates why they might vote against their best interests, we might just ask them why they oppose the liberals and/or support Trump. Perhaps we should listen and learn instead of patronizingly assume that we know their best interests.
4
Sheeesh. Did people read the article?
Egan isn't defending a trump-loving point of view. He is simply stating that politicians running for office (specifically) need to tone down the ultra-woke language or risk alienating parts of the electorate that could put a Democrat in the whitehouse and actually begin to make meaningful policy change.
Who, exactly, has a problem with that opinion? Are you TRYING to lose... again?
18
@David Fine, now give me specific examples of politicians running for office who are indulging in "ultra-woke" language.
The core of Egan's argument is that the "Insufferably Woke" are turning off swing voters, but he never get around to demonstrating there is such a thing as the "Insufferably Woke."
1
Egan associates Warren and Sanders with "wokeness" but I think his analysis is off.
I associate "wokeness" with identity politics. But Warren and Sanders are historical materialists who believe that the infrastructure (economy) determines the superstructure (ideology, culture, family, etc).
I guess I just figured out that identity issues are "superstructural" while the economy is "infrastructural." That is not to say that discrimination doesn't affect one's economic status.
2
The issue of being "insufferably woke" (which I happen to think is a real problem, mostly on social media) is one thing. But why does this article seem to point a finger at Elizabeth Warren as being in that category? I only see her hammering home her points about money and what it means for most Americans. How is that insufferably woke? Are you saying she is criticizing people for being politically incorrect? I just don't see or hear that. And what does it mean to speak more like the daughter-of-a-janitor? She talks plenty about how her upbringing has brought her to fight for the common man. If she IS the daughter of a janitor but doesn't sound uneducated enough, she's somehow elitist? I don't get it. What do you want from her? Even if Warren cleaned toilets herself, I don't think your sister would care. Tim, your sister has decided based on tribalism, not respect, yet expects some kind of unending effort to speak to her dignity.
6
What I find most interesting about this piece is the absence of concrete examples of "arrogant" Democrats 'talking down" to voters. Only a vague reference to Elizabeth Warren who, I can only recall "taking down" to more moderate Democrats, bankers, and billionaires.
3
Nope, not buying it, Mr. Egan. Far too many of those Trump fanatics I have encountered find his coarseness, vulgarity and lies refreshingly unfiltered, politically incorrect, genuine, sincere and honest--all of which makes my head spin in both disbelief and disgust. Far more Democrats are moderate and do not condescend to working class Americans because of their employment or incomes or religion. Many of us have tried to understand how Trump supporters could even remotely believe he has their best interests at heart or is a role model for their children. Trump has spent his entire life cutting corners, flouting laws and regulations, essentially making a career out of trying to maximize his own personal wealth and power with as little to no effort as possible and destroying others in the process. Donald Trump is not someone who should be admired. He should be reviled and imprisoned.
6
While this W Washington homeboy with Spokane roots in the Irish working class is often sympathetic to Timothy Eagan writing here and generally love his books I fear he has drifting towards the muddled middle.
The night after the election in 16 I caught a ride to downtown Seattle with an Eritrean cabbie fresh off the plane who put the matter succinctly, "You Americans shouldn't feel sorry for yourselves, you got exactly what you deserve."
On second avenue downtown, marching hordes held their I phones like torches ata the Commune ramparts in shock that the seriously ,muddled campaign of HRC did not prevail. Inside Nordstrom hall, the great trumpeter Wadada Leo Smith reminded the audience that if we keep doing this binary two step with the parties then we will continue to suffer decline.
Both the cab driver and Mr. Smith were dead on. There is no middle to return to, no normal, only forward.
Sorry, Timothy,, there is no purity test, no wonkiness, there is only Capitalism.
Deal with what is doing us harm and forget the vituperation of the imaginary.
2
The problem with this op-ed is that the writer does not question his biases. His sibling says X so he automatically believes that his/her viewpoint has wider import (while throwing in loosely argued examples from Democratic politicians to back up his case).
Isn't it possible that it's easier for the sibling to say this is why she/her supports Trump, knowing that the person is against Trump/writes for the NYT, rather than saying something explicitly xenophobic, or racist, which is more likely?
Moreover, the journalist avoids looking at Trump himself and what he focuses on. It's plain to see, the connection many white voters feel with Trump - across all income brackets - is linked to his populism and bigotry, or white-people-first rhetoric that might be described as racism, or xenophobia.
They like the fact that he says what he thinks, and positions himself as an agent of change. Just like all populist politicians from the world over. France's Jean-Marie Le Pen said much the same for decades, while also pushing the whites first racist rhetoric.
Question to editors and the journalist himself. Considering the above, which is documented in exit polls and vox pops and focus groups etc etc.
What is the point of running this the elites talk down to the white working class thus they vote for Trump line?
Warren would never cut through with these voters, it's got nothing to do with her academic credentials. They're looking for something/someone else.
2
Connect the dots. Egan is a lapsed Catholic from a Catholic family. That means almost certainly that his sister is Catholic.
So what are these "religious beliefs" the Woke are supposedly so "dismissive" of? Transubstantiation? The Immaculate Conception? Papal Infallibility?
No. Almost certainly the issue is abortion, and the sister's complaint about the Democratic party is that they refuse to impose Catholic dogma as civil law in the United States.
8
… Democrats belong with the other party, could be more effective with these folks if she showed more of her daughter-of-a-janitor side. …"
I can't make any sense of this article.
Warren, who actually grew up in the daughter-of-a-janitor demographic needs to show her modest beginnings.
Trump who was a multimillionaire by the age of 5 (Fred's approach to tax cheating), and who never displays absolutely anything that even remotely connects with the daughter-of-a-janitor demographic gets a pass? The poster child for excessive violations of each and every one of the seven deadly sins is just A-OK with the FOX demographic.
2
Well put, but I would add that Democrats lack FOCUS.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Democrats ramble on and one about complicated issues.
How can the average voter understand this or remember it?
1) I suggest a FOCUS on DEMOCRACY, itself.
Trump is destroying DEMOCRACY, day by day.
The threat is real and it will spread globally, by example.
I suggest the use of simple things, like the DEMOCRACY song:
"Democracy is coming to the USA" (Leonard Cohen, 1992)
-------------------------------------------
(The NY Times could discuss this song)
2) I suggest the use of repeated GESTURES and signs.
Democrats could use Trump's OK sign, to poke fun at him.
Sen.Warren might use V-victory signs, together, for W-women.
Einstein said, "everything should be made as simple as possible,
but not simpler" Why can't Democrats get SIMPLE, like Trump?
"Democracy is coming to the USA"
------------------------------------------
Yes, let's have a new DEMOCRACY wave in 2020
What the writer asks for is impossible to achieve so long as Fox News exists.
Mr Egan gets to talk to his sibling, what? A couple times a month maybe? She has Fox News at her fingertips 24 hours a day, every day. She listens to Fox News. And if not Fox, any one of a thousand other lying hucksters telling her what she wants to hear.
Try to fight that Mr Egan. All of us who have lost family members and friends to Fox over the last 25 years have tried. And we have all failed. So long as Fox exists, there is no hope to persuade your sister, or any other Fox-believing American, that they are being used, and conned.
4
But you don't get it, Timothy. Many of the very woke, the most progressive--who are overwhelmingly white and well educated--would rather have Trump to attack for four more years than to concede to the middle. This is the tea party (maybe the latte party) on the left.
8
Why don't Democrats show more compassion and understanding for people who intentionally set their own house on fire? Is that the question?
7
Anytime any pundit (or really any person) speaks of "Democrats" or "Republicans" we immediately lose valuable precision about the diversity of opinions represented under those broad headings.
Are there insufferably work and intolerant Democrats?
You betcha.
Are there hateful, homophobic, and racist Republican?
Absolutely.
I find Egan's advice to the masses—drawn from evidence reflective of a minority of viewpoints—to be relatively unhelpful and condescending in its own way. I'd suggest it might be somewhat due to his privileged position, but I'd hate to give him fodder for another column.
1
When I read some of smugger “woke,” comments here, I can’t help but think of a great Sam Elliott moment in a bad movie:
“We will CHARGE valiantly. And be SLAUGHTERED, valiantly. And afterwards, men in tall hats will THUMP their chests and say what a brave charge it was.”
4
@Robert
Yes, instead of the Light Brigade we have the Woke Brigade. Leading the Charge to Ever More Wokeness.
My sister is in that Brigade. She thinks I am Obtuse.
I find her Condescending. We are at an Impasse. The thing is, after six decades, I have finally realized that she has always thought I was Obtuse, while I didn't find her condescending until recently. I think that dynamic might explain some of what is driving the divisiveness in this country. In their own way, the Obtuse are becoming Woke. Just not in the way the Woke want.
1
Virtue-signalling know-it-alls? In my world, these are Christian evangelicals who are in the bag for Trump. THEY'RE virtuous, so their president doesn't have to be. They have elaborate lists of ways that I have failed as a person and (most particularly) as a woman: the yoga pants; the uncovered hair; the working for a living; the lack of deference to men, especially men whom I do not know but who have heard from God about God's plan for me; my lack of credulity in a 6,000-year-old earth where dinosaurs walked with "men." A vote for Trump is a vote for a hateful, woman-hating scofflaw who has stiffed contractors and gone bankrupt in every business to which he has turned his hand. It is not about me and my personal struggle; it's about THEM.
4
Very nice opinion piece about an important issue. The hard left of the Democratic party is EVERY BIT as authoritarian and absolutists as the most die hard Trumpers. They literally think that all compromise is bad, all people with different views are enemies and people they don't like need to be "canceled". Although I am not in the same class as your sister I fully feel and share her emotion.
4
"Excessive wokeness" and "political correctness" are just the devices the right wing created to deflect attention away from policies. Dems like Egan that allow these concepts to frame his their thinking/writing are part of the problem.
T
5
Fascinatingly, there are no actual *examples* of that type of "insulting and condescending" language purportedly put forth by Democrats in this article. The reason is that the idea that Democrats are elitists who are insulting voters is a right-wing fabrication.
This article is very clearly simply concern trolling. If you wish to be taken seriously, I would recommend putting some actual examples of the type of language you are talking about in your article. Otherwise, you're just promoting the lie.
7
ok boomer.
3
Seeing the “woke” as offensive for imperiously claiming their correctness, and the “unwoke” as simply and blindly defensive of that, it’s clear who has to blink. Because it’s not about right and wrong, it’s about human understanding. The Democrats need to show some love and caring. Tell your fellow Americans you love them, give them a hug. Be inclusive.
1
Oh, give me a break. Exactly where is this sister of yours getting her information? Slate? Salon.com? Or perhaps, as I suspect, Fox News, which specializes in trafficking this false caricature of contemptuous, PC-obsessed, leftist culture warriors?
Name one policy proposal of Elizabeth Warren that condescends to blue collar voters. Just one. I’ll wait. Or does an Ivy League pedigree immediately disqualify candidates from connecting with said voters (who elected Ivy Leaguer George W. Bush twice)?
5
@oldehamme I would say equal parts Fox News and the parish priest.
The passionate promotion of ideas that address real problems is not condescension, in fact it assumes the audience can grasp the arguments. Pounding the table and lying about everything under the sun is true condescension; it assumes the audience is too dumb to know the difference.
4
I am a educated, liberal democrat from a working class family, who lived and worked in a severely depressed, rural area. I know many Trump voters. Many - though not all - are uneducated and avid Fox watchers. We sometimes talk politics, but we don't fight. I try hard to listen more than I talk, not to take the bait when offered, and offer my ideas politely. Sometimes we find points of agreement; often we agree to disagree.
For many of these folks, Timothy Egan described the problem exactly. If you work for minimum wage at MacDonald's, and are glad to have the have job, the last thing you need is to have some "outsider" intimate that you are stupid, ignorant, and racist. You might be one or more of those things - we liberals can be too - but one of the few things you have left in that environment is your pride. The minute you feel demeaned, you stop listening.
8
@Jane I, too, come from a working class family and I, too, work around a lot of people who are uneducated and love Fox News. You say the minute one feels demeaned, they stop listening. Well, what am I supposed to do when they tell me that I'm a race traitor, "the gays are disgusting," etc.?
I rise above but, oh, I loathe them inside. We get what we deserve with Trump if this is what the true "salt of the earth" thinks and feels.
Just last week I got to hear about how we should "take addicts and put them in a helicopter and drown them in the ocean" and we should "ship their useless kids off to another country."
What is there to agree with there? When people walk in and go on rants about black people, using the ugliest language one can imagine? What do I say? I politely say "let's not say that here please" and "that's not very nice" and I'm told I'm a naive tree hugger who doesn't understand the way the world works. It's everywhere. I say I don't like the n-word, and I'm told that every man I've met in this field calls people the n-word.
Pretending that liberals are the problem ignores the real issue that is at hand, which is that a major segment of our population wouldn't have any kind of problem with lynching people.
2
My concern is not the insufferably woke, the insufficiently woke.
4
I am old enough to remember when the insufferably rigid woke on the left managed to get Richard Nixon elected president in 1968, because Hubert Humphrey (Lyndon Johnson's VP) was not left or woke enough for them--although as a senator Humphrey was a very strong liberal with socialist inclinations from Minnesota.
See: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/vietnam-hubert-humphrey.html
The problem was Humphrey was Johnson's VP and tainted by the Vietnam war. Unfortunately, the left did not bother to imagine that: (a) Humphrey could be his own man as president and act differently than Johnson (the 2 men had little in common); and (b) Humphrey, though tainted, would have been a much better and less corrupt president than Nixon.
So in its determination and wisdom, the left disrupted the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago, resulting in a police crackdown that turn off lots of Americans to "woke" leftist politics.
I was a young wife of a grad student who worked as a secretary at a large state university in 1968 (plus 2-3 other part time jobs to help support us and our first baby). I heard liberal professors and grad students loudly proclaim they were not going to vote for Humphrey and would sit out the election. And so we got Tricky Dicky.
You don't always get what you want in a candidate, but consider the character and politics of the alternative candidate before refusing to vote.
3
There was probably a time when I would be sympathetic to this view, but the insufferably woke aren't nearly that common in real life (as opposed to on facebook). Let's also not forget where this came from... As far back as the 1980's conservatives like Rush Limbaugh were on the radio complaining about "Feminazis" and TV preachers like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson routinely harassed all sorts of people outside their so-called "Moral Majority".
Frankly, I'm surprised it took this long for left leaning folks and democrats to finally fight back. It didn't have to happen... the well of patience, good will, and tolerance was deep, but it has been drained over the last 30-40 years and is now empty.
I don't want your vote. Divorce
3
Tim Egan’s sister, who has the temerity of thinking-for-herself-while-cleaning-toilets-at-Walmart-in-flyover-country, may have something to teach all of us. Her brother has the frame of reference of someone who knows better by virtue of his one-eyed wokeness. Open both eyes, heart and mind while your at it.
3
I would seriously consider complains of these people if they say 'I will not vote', but because they are going to vote for Trump I see them nothing but hypocrites. Who demands respect for their beliefs, but support the guy who spit on everybody else. Apparently, insult of others citizens does not bother these people.
3
Well, how should Democrats approach people who think like Trump? "You're just like us . . . but wrong." (?)
2
I'm sorry, but the real "know-it-all" in all this is your sibling.
Despite all the evidence, and all the facts in the world, she insists that SHE is the one being denigrated. When the reality is that it's her obdurate willful ignorance that is inflicting all the damage on her and everyone else.
She feels people are dismissive of her and her lot in life. I feel for her lot in life, but as far as being dismissive of her views - Why shouldn't we be?
She supports an ignorant, loudmouthed, lying racist, who is systematically destroying this country. It's her support for people like Trump that has put this country in the garbage dump it currently occupies.
Perhaps when her water becomes so polluted, due to GOP deregulation, that she gets terminally ill from it, she might wake up to the fact that it wasn't "coastal elites" that made it happen. It was her own steadfast ignorance, and her dismissiveness towards everyone who doesn't agree with her asinine embrace of the ridiculous.
Frankly, I am sick to death of hearing about how "put out" Trump supporters feel. I utterly despise the term "victim-hood". But, if there was ever a group of people for whom that designation applies it's Trump supporters.
Watch a Trump rally and you will realize that there has never been a bigger group of whining, self-righteous, condescending, know-nothing-know-it-all's in this country's history. No wonder the racist, draft-dodging coward Donald Trump fits right in. He's a perfect leader for them.
9
I could not agree more with Mr. Egan and I've posted comments here with the Times in the past saying so. As much as I don't want four more years of the current POTUS, it's a no-win election for anyone who continues to aggressively dismiss the beliefs, needs, and feelings (yes feelings) of a large segment of the population while continually telling them what they need and how they need to be more giving with their hard earned and, in many cases, meager dollars. That huge segment of the population is not only uninterested in far left, pie-in-the-sky proposals views that socialist capitalists like Bernie Sanders & Elizabeth Warren continue to espouse. Many people view Mr. Sanders and Ms. Warren as disingenuous. They are seen as very wealthy academics who are not only out of touch with middle Americans, but seem clueless that extending some sort of outreach to them. For many true middle Americans, it is very difficult to take Ms. Warren seriously as she continually reminds everyone that she's just a simple middle-class "okie" from her $3,000,000 Brattle Street, Cambridge home.
3
Good advice, hard to act on it, but it's what we all need to do. And I quickly would say that the same advice goes for everyone, whether inclined to the Democrats or the Republicans, to "liberal" or "conservative" thinking, etc. It's called civility. Respect for other viewpoints. Honest conversations. No condescending or dismissing of anyone else whose viewpoint is not the same as ours. I try to practice it, often not successfully. But it is what we all need to try harder to do.
My sibling and best friend are the quintessential “woke” ones. One lives in Chicago and works at a bias consulting company (e.g., “Dear White Male C-Level Execs, you offend XYZ because of your unconscious bias…”) and the other lives in D.C. (via Brooklyn) and is an attorney at a federal agency Trump surely wants to disband.
I work on the executive floor of a corporate conglomerate with dual HQs – one in the Blue Bubble and the other in Deep Red Mid-West.
I am uniquely positioned to interact with three types of people on a daily basis: my Fox News loving, pro-Trump mid-western colleagues; my would-be Republican, Trump-hating executive team who still think they are “socially liberal and fiscally conservative”; and my “woke” personal community of millennial “coastal elites.” Please note that, we (the “elites”) are very middle class for the COL in our areas and will not likely benefit from any policies proposed by either side. Being “upper-middle” class in a high COL area means you are very much on your own, but happily pay to help others.
Why does this matter? Because my sister and best friend are thoroughly convinced that any Dem can win – they are so deep in their blue bubble that they do not realize how alienating the extreme upheaval proposed by and attitudes championed by Sanders/Warren are to those who might be willing to vote Dem to get Trump out. This article is spot on. To my woke loved ones: wake up.
633
@JKS Plenty of perfectly capable, reasonable nations have universal health care AND don't beggar young people trying to get an education AND are making big investments in greening their economies. It's easy to see why:
1. Real health care is vastly cheaper than dramatic ER interventions at the last gasp. This saves YOU money.
2. Education promotes greater innovation and prosperity. This also saves YOU money.
3. Competitve, subsidy-free solar energy is already a reality in China. And wind and solar power are actually much cheaper everywhere than dirty energy when all costs are included. This can also save YOU money. (Solar cells now provide more than 80 percent of the electricity for our home and car.) Or it cost ALL OF US hugely if we don't put the brakes on climate change.
You and your sister decide. If you'd both vote your REAL self-interest, I'd be happy!
42
@Solar Power , you're preaching to the choir. That said, we have to get Trump out. If that means a centrist, then that's what it means. Incremental change is how most lasting changes come, and people who disagree with us have voices and choices too. All the "rightness" in the world won't suffice if we fail to bend every effort to attain the power to stop the destruction now on us.
56
@JKS OK, call me out for not knowing all of today's vernacular: Is "COL" = cost of living? Thanks.
As to your comments, there is a certain, visible elitism among the more prominent Democrats that leaves many turned off. When Hillary referred to Trump's followers as "deplorable", I winced. While some are in fact "deplorable", there are equally as many in the Democratic camp.
The Democrats need to reach out to and to "touch" those folks in the rust belt, the corn belt, the wheat belt. In many ways, those folk are the core of who actually built America; at least, their ancestors did.
As toxic as Trump is, he has found the nub of these folks' reality. Admittedly, he lies to them bald-faced. But, they like what they hear. Period. That commercial, "Reach out an touch someone" comes to mind. There is a LOT of space between Left Coast and Right Coast.
28
If Warren is the nominee then Trump gets his second term. No way a majority of Americans will go with her hard-left pushover. Many center Democrats and independents will stay home with sadness and hope for a more evenly balanced Democratic candidate in 2020. If by then, as Ben Franklin had warned, America will still keep its Republic.
3
"But for others, those like my sister, a word to Democrats: Talk to them. Don’t talk over them. Save the piety, the circular firing squad, the shaming on social media for after the election"
I would rather wake up every morning for the next five years praying theheadlines scream "Trump is dead!"
Than to continue placating the ignorant sheep like your sister who have destroyed so many innocent lives over the course of our history.
Enough!
Their stifled mentalities have wrecked havoc on enough innocent children and marginilized enough liberty and equality.
Enough!
And now it's the whole planet's destruction they abet.
Enough enabling!
6
Maybe instead of shaming people, we shame actions such as supporting a corrupt and racist president? it is when the fingerprinting gets personal that people polarize, because it is not about the opinion or action, but othering of the person, regardless of which side of the divide you lie.
1
I'm not too worried about feelings of racist snowflakes whose live on resentment and fear. They'll never change and their vote is not worth courting.
2
It's pretty insufferable to spend valuable column inches in the Times to castigate the folks who are actually working to get Mr. Egan's sister a better deal. Maybe better a column about the insufferable lies and brainwashing his sister and other Trump voters are suffering at the hands of Fox "news"?
5
So, she's bitter that people are "dismissive of her religious beliefs." I wonder what exactly are the tenets of the faith she feels is being so denigrated that it results in her repeatedly, actively supporting a demon who by all indications is evil incarnate. Is she a Satanist?
3
I know I should read further before commenting but this was a flat out astonishing line that derailed me entirely:
"Progressives promise free college, free health care, free child care, and scream in bafflement, What’s wrong with you people?"
This notion that its just all free stuff, and everyone who doesn't agree is an idiot....its not just the insufferably woke who drive us nuts. Its the overall vast self-righteousness of the left these days, reminscent of the 90s religious right, that is driving people away in hordes.
I think the dynamic is very similar too - an immoral, creep president who is nonetheless supported by his party because he gets the job done. An opposition party who hates the guy passionately and moves on to questioning the ethics of people who do support him. War ensues.
@Patrick: nailed it.
1
Everyone knows that Trump considers someone of little means “a loser”.
He himself had to repay folks that he actively cheated in his phoney “University” where he told customers like your sister to max out their credit cards buying distressed properties.
He got rich, they went broke. By the way- that is also making fun of religion. A person with an actual conscience used the US Law to help get their $$$ back.
From whom, what and where is this all this condescension coming from? What I see is an endless stream of articles trying to understand the people who put this amoral coward in the White House. And time and again their views simply do not match reality. They demonstrate, time and again they believe provable nonsense and bizarre conspiracies yet Democrats are supposed to bend over backwards to woo them. They're not going to vote for Democrats because that's what their preachers and Fox News tell them. They think the "woke" disrespect them and condescend to them because that's what Fox News and their preachers tell them.
I keep reading about how far left the Dems have gone but nobody, and I mean nobody, says much about how extreme the GOP is. When this political party is shown to be farther right than almost every other right-wing party except the actual Nazis of Alternative for Germany, then it's time to recognize them and everyone who supports them as a threat to the Constitution and democracy in America.
If this is condescension then I say, "Condescension in the defense of liberty is no vice."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/26/opinion/sunday/republican-platform-far-right.html
5
If you still support Trump and the Republicans after all they have done — denying climate change, caging children, defending nazis, subverting the rule of law and undermining the institutions that make us a free society, to name just a few — then sorry, I don’t respect you. Why should I? I don’t need to understand you better. I understand you just fine. What I need is to utterly defeat you and your party at the polls. It’s not condescending to call out willful ignorance and stubborn allegiance to demagogues and liars. It’s reasonable.
6
"Barack Obama, still the smartest politician in the land" I am not sure if this piece was supposed to be satire but you did a pretty beat-up job highlighting the essence of the title. You are that condescending voice your relative spoke about.
1
If by “smart” you mean “totally ineffectual”.
1
The author writes; "It’s no mystery why so many Democrats can no longer connect to the white working class."
It's also no mystery why so many Democrats can no longer connect to the black working class. That group doesn't vote for Republicans. Too often they simply don't vote. Why?
In part because the same things that have happened to the "white working class" through globalism have happened to them. They too lost jobs. But too many Progressives act as if the primary things affecting black people are things Progressives cannot change or control. Racism for example. Biden isn't a favorite of mine but at least he understands. There is an old school, call it "Boomer" term for it. Pocketbook issues.
It's worth remembering that the 1963 March on Washington was called the March for Jobs and Freedom. Progressives can offer us jobs. Since those jobs will also go to the white working class too why not offer both groups something they both need and can unite on?
As for freedom? The work continues. But the work cannot be done through virtue signaling. It cannot be done by gasping in dismay when I talk about my father the factory worker or my mother the maid. They weren't slaves. That was their grandparents.
5
It's hard to say how prevalent this condescending attitude is. There are people, perhaps 15% of progressive voters, who vocalize it. Republican strategists have taken advantage of the insensitive remarks of a minority who express their condemnation, convincing many voters in the rust belt states that "elites" from the Democratic Party have contempt for them. This propaganda carrying the elite label has been very effective for a long time. Remember Spiro Agnew's assailing the "effete intellectuals" when campaigning for Richard Nixon. Spiro Agnew's comments clearly implied that these out of touch liberals had contempt for the working man.
2
@Jim Benson
The problem is, while these privileged and educated, self-righteous liberals represent a minority of democratic voters, they occupy positions of power and influence in society (like the professional positions of mainstream media.) They probably represent the majority of NYT commenters here. Working class and rural people are NOT getting their senses of low social status from conservatives who are manipulating them. (This is actually a little insulting.) They experience it through their daily lives within a society dominated by professional class social norms.
5
@carl bumba
Thank you for your reply Carl. What I failed to explain was in the Nixon-Agnew Era this was part of the dirty tricks Southern strategy to aggregate political power by turning people against one another, and this strategy has been very effective. Maybe you don't remember the Nixon "Moral Majority. " I live in New Jersey and I can vouch from my relatives who are farm people from Virginia and Indiana that regional bias and misunderstanding are not the dominant, prevalent characteristic of liberals or people who live on our coasts. Prejudice and bias are not confined to one region or area; this poison is well distributed throughout our country.
Are these the same people who have been listening to Rush Limbaugh on talk radio. He was calling people "feminazis" and basically demonizing "liberals" 20 years or more ago.
344
@Doug McKenna
Yes, in many cases. So are you going to say "fine, vote for Trump you ignorami"? That only helps Trump, which was Egan's whole point. Dems who want to win, as opposed to Dems who want to broadcast a pure ideology, look past Limbaugh-driven insults to find common ground with skeptical voters. See 2018 House contests in red districts.
33
@Doug McKenna
Well put, but I would add that Democrats lack FOCUS.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Democrats ramble on and one about complicated issues.
How can the average voter understand this or remember it?
1) I suggest a FOCUS on DEMOCRACY, itself.
Trump is destroying DEMOCRACY, day by day.
The threat is real and it will spread globally, by example.
I suggest the use of things, like the DEMOCRACY song:
"Democracy is coming to the USA" (Leonard Cohen, 1992)
-------------------------------------------
(The NY Times could discuss this song)
2) I suggest the use of repeated GESTURES and signs.
Democrats could use Trump's OK sign, to poke fun at him.
Sen.Warren might use V-victory signs, together, for W-women.
Einstein said, "everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" Why can't Democrats get SIMPLE, like Trump?
"Democracy is coming to the USA"
------------------------------------------
Yes, let's have a new DEMOCRACY wave in 2020
17
@Doug McKenna No. These are the people who don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, disliked Hilary Clinton enough to hold their noses and vote for Trump, and think instituting too many of the current Democrat ideas will bankrupt our country. You don't have to like Trump to disagree with progressive ideas.
7
"...all show that the best way to rid this country of Trump is for Democrats to dial back the condescension of their natural allies and dig into the gritty concerns of daily life."
In 2018, Nancy Pelosi and the freshmen House Democrats did just that. Now, it's all impeachment, all of the time.
Trump is probably going to win again. By a lot more than 2016. Are we looking at another 4 years of accusations and investigations?
Liberals are their own worst enemy.
3
Yeah, Warren has, of late, been a acting like a "my way or the highway" Sanders minion. Big mistake. I like her precisely because of her long and mixed record which the Sanders bros are now pillorying her for. All the same, proper studies tell us (as reported on NPR's news program a day or two ago) that a significant fraction of the folks who are presently indicating a preference for Biden or Sanders are motivated as strongly by gender as they are by policies. That's a big deal. All indications are that Warren would in the lead in some if not many of these states if were that not the case. Harris and Klobuchar would also be doing much better. Is misogyny just one of those things that the rest of us should overlook? Is commenting on it being insufferably woke? I was not willing to let our party be sucked down into that dark pit of misogyny in 2016 when a plague of it swept through the Sanders base and campaign, and I'm not willing to let our party do that in 2020. I am not in the pocket for Warren. She is one of my 4 or 5 favorites. It goes without saying that I will vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who it is.
2
@Robert
Absolutely do not overlook misogyny, but don't assume it.
If you see someone saying "a woman can't be the president" call them out on it. Abso-can't say it in this section-lutely call it out.
But don't go around telling people they are misogynists because they vote a different way than you.
And don't get into the "unconscious bias". You don't know what's in anyone's mind and chances are you haven't observed anyone closely enough to make a rational informed judgment about it.
1
@Robert
Why don't you check how Bernie supporters feel about Tulsi Gabbard before suggesting that they're misogynists? Warren's issues are her integrity - and the fact that she's unappealing to the working class, the very people her platform is designed to help.
1
@carl bumba
I'm not suggesting folks are motivated by misogyny. Credible studies cited by NPR are telling us that. Good grief. Are you really telling us that Warren has a problem with integrity? Have you Sanders folks completely lost your minds, too? As you ought to know, the misogyny dynamic often goes like this: I would vote for a woman just not that one. Which is usually said depending on whether or not that woman is beating St. Bernie.
1
Is it possible that many people don't like and some even hate the 'elites' and the educated class and vote to punish them? Regardless that their vote hurts everybody, themselves included?
2
When I was in my 20s I was a liberal social agitator. I had no qualms voting for Nader in Ohio in 2000 (gasp). I had a bumpersticker that said 'If you are not outraged you are not paying attention'. People all thought I was crazy. Now my views are becoming mainstream and I love it. Thank you to all the progressive movers and shakers out there. Yes it is important be polite, but keep moving us left. And by the way I am not sure it is OK for Egan to use 'woke' in this way. It's a black word and I don't care if he is offended that I am offended.
@Elizabeth
So in other words your vanity caused you to effectively support Bush over Gore. A few hundred thousand dead and a couple of trillion dollars later you wouldn't do it any differently. You are a Trump ally, plain and simple.
2
I have family members like your sister. I'm not convinced that they are reachable. If you don't have anything to lose and especially if you aren't currently sick, health care isn't much of an issue. Medicine is socialized here and always has been, once you lose everything. Many, if not most people never worry about tomorrow let alone retirement and I'm sure she assumes Social Security is not threatened by her vote. At least that's what my family members tell me when I try to tell them that the Republicans will cut Social Security if they possibly can.
The Democrats' support of abortion rights and gay rights eliminate any possibility of getting the vote of evangelical Christians, especially if they're poor.
This is very well written and I agree with Egan's comments. As a more centrist non-Republican, I have not been a fan Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders because they are too far left. They honestly cannot believe that their policies and plans that cost trillions of dollars (for free this and free that) have a ghost of a chance of becoming reality.
Now is not the time for extremist policies...it's about getting rid of "a corrupt and unstable president" and his enablers. Period. We can work on these items via the course of debate (if that's still possible) and legislation when the right time comes.
If the Democrats want to regain the White House and the Senate, the name-calling, shaming, yelling, and condescension must stop. Yes, I've done my share, but the cost is detrimental: divisions in our society that we can not afford. Comments and actions by the Trumpists are, indeed, anger-inducing, frustrating, and illogical. I honestly struggle to figure out how this has come to be. Yet here we are.
If we cannot produce more civil society and discourse, then ultimately, the "best and ugliest" set of bullies will win indefinitely. I, for one, do not want any part of bullying or shaming others to get them to agree with me. Not any longer.
2
For the people that feel the woke crowd is talking down to them, makes them feel insulted, inferior, etc - that's on them. They are giving their power away to the woke crowd. Voting for Trump against doesn't give them their power back, much less dignity. Since when does voting connect with dignity?
3
Wokeness in the Democrat party is not unlike the Libertarian section of Conservatives. They are members of a cult that requires purity over all. Dissent is vilified or laughed at depending on its source as they prefer to be without sin than successful. Both sides believe they own the "Truth" and will go after members of their own party just as hard(maybe even harder) than the opponent party because in that they can further prove their righteousness.
3
People certainly have the right to vote against their own self interest. But I'm frankly tired of having them blame Democrats for their doing so.
The message Mr. Egan seems to be sending is "You made us vote against our own interests by being so self righteous." People like your sister will suffer more than I will from a second Trump administration. I cannot save them from themselves.
3
To all those that are denying the prevalence of progressive condescension, please got watch David Foster Wallace's "This is Water" speech. It's a great one, and it really breaks down the problem here.
Many of you live socially in more academic and urban social circles. In that world, being intersectional is the air you breathe. It's the norm. It's all there is. And that's not just because of your friend group; the media, Hollywood, and school all agree with your views in lockstep. So when you meet someone who isn't woke, someone who doesn't agree that everything is racist/sexist/homophobic, it's easy to see them as unenlightened, as blind to the Truth that is self evident to you, and complicit in those -isms merely by their ignorance of the Truth.
But that's not true for anti-woke people, or conservatives. They hear your views every day from politicians, from celebrities, from journalists, from activists, and academics. Many of them in fact held the viewpoints you do when they were younger. As Jonathon Haidt has scientifically documented, conservatives understand you better than the other way around.
You may come off as insufferably condescending purely because of this difference. To alleviate this problem, as David Foster Wallace noted, you could try getting out of your own head a little and see things from someone else's perspective more. You might learn something!
2
So in other words, 40% of Americans prefer a leader who is obviously a con man and traitor, because he doesn't talk down to them or criticize what they say they want. They prefer that to a leader who is decent, cares about people, and acts appropriately in public and private. It seems to me that getting talked down to or criticized is something folks should be willing to put up with in order to have a leader who is a decent person, at least.
Too many limousine liberals feel they have all the answers. They are unwilling to talk to actual poor people and listen to what they have to say, respond to their needs and wants. The limousine liberal's solution to most social and economic problems is that poor people wouldn't be poor if they only went to Harvard. Failing that they should take a handout. It's the modern equivalent of "If there is not enough bread for the poor, then let them eat cake."
Poor people, for the most part, don't want handouts. They want a job that pays well where they are treated with respect. They want to be useful members of society, and wonder why they work so hard but are not considered worthy of respect and reasonable sustenance. That is harder to deliver than free this or free that, but it is what the country needs.
3
@Tom Meadowcroft Anyone who uses the meaningless term "limousine liberals" has already forfeited any claim to making a logical argument. You're just repeating cant.
4
When I was growing up we had a word for the awoke types, that word is "conceited."
Into themselves a lot. The awoke are the self described enlightened ones. The rest of us are deplorable. Their attitude is Trump's greatest political asset. I can't figure out how AOC and her "awoke" crowd have much less experience with life and less education than the rest of us working stiffs?
3
I live in Oregon and am pretty liberal. Where is this uber leftist woke purity test coming from? Who is it coming from? Is it the words of particular politicians or is facebook?
I honestly don't know what this article is really talking about? I read and listen to the news regularly (NPR and NYT). Who is shaming whom and where? I don't deny that it may happen, but why am I not hearing about it. Could someone provide some links or context on this topic.
Is it the university professor who told students to use good judgement instead of promoting a list of banned Halloween costumes a few years ago? Universities are always weird places, and are called ivory towers for a reason.
2
@D. Renner
Read National Review or listed to right wing radio or TV. They spend all day, every day, pointing out examples of leftist extremism in order to cultivate hostility to Democrats.
1
I think we would all do so much better as a country if we stopped believing the extremist memes and messages that tell us that the other political side is the worst version of themselves.
It's almost as if we're buying into a propaganda effort that seeks to tear our national fabric and de-legitimize our political processes.
hmmmmmm
2
She called them "deplorable". They were the votes she needed.
Tip O'Neill is still rolling in his grave over that one.
The Big Tent? No one even mentions that.
It was a pride of the Democrats, but half the voters today wouldn't understand the concept.
1
Chasing these voters is a fool’s errand. They have a welcoming home in what could be described accurately as a White Identity Party and gladly will forego a government that serves their economic interests if they have one that serves their many white nationalist grievances. Further, the deadly combination of their near-exclusive reliance on Fox News and the cognitive dissonance that inevitably results in their dismissal of objective fact, making outreach efforts as useful as talking to the wall.
Few remember that Obama did not win either of his terms with a majority of white votes. Rather than chase people who live in an alternate universe in which it’s disparaged as the “Democrat” Party, Democrats should spend their time inspiring minorities to turn out as they did for Obama and combatting the barriers to their voting that Republican states implement. Add to these minorities the educated, the increasing number of women with a visceral loathing of Comrade Trump, millennials who reject the Republican evangelical-pandering platform, and the leftists who learned from their 2016 mistakes in supporting Stein, writing in Bernie Sanders, or being too cool to vote for the “lesser of two evils,” and the Democrats almost certainly win the popular vote with a greater margin than in 2016. Whether that overcomes being handicapped in the fundamentally anti-democratic Electoral College is anyone’s guess, but we won’t win there if we don’t get our natural coalition out to the polls.
1
@Mike
No need to speculate about this. Look at the kind of politicians that were successful in taking House seats from Republicans. Hint, it was not liberal extremists.
2
I'm so relieved this issue is finally being addressed. As a strong liberal Democrat who may not be a progressive but with some progressive ideas, I've been on the receiving end of hyper-woke vitriol before. Apparently being insufficiently pure of wokeness or progressive spirit is a disgusting atrocity.
I could never vote for Trump, anyone like him or really any Republican at all for that matter, but there have been times when I've wearied of the purity police enough to consider simply checking out of the process altogether. And that's essentially 1/2 a vote for Trumpism.
9
I hear what you’re saying.
I also find it “baffling” that folks like your sibling and the GOP in general exercise a constant unsubstantiated belief that no people in any other part of the political spectrum have spiritual beliefs.
That is simply offensive and false.
4
Wow! How hard is it to understand that the 2020 election will be decided in the Electoral College by a handful of persuadable voters. Many of them voted for Trump and have buyer's remorse. As they venture into the no-man's land between the wokels and the yokels they should be welcomed into the tent of Democrats, not subjected to the "yes-but..." judgement of the self-righteous.
3
Have you told your sister that the Walmart shareholders are among the richest people in the world? That while she was cleaning bathrooms one Walmart heir built a crystal palace museum to avoid paying taxes?
1
"Save the piety, the circular firing squad, the shaming on social media for after the election."
Or how about never.
I'm liberal, but the whole piety, more woke than thou, social media shaming, and acting like people who have done nothing wrong but use a few wrong words and personally not believe in a radical new set of theories that didn't exist a few years ago are suddenly evil bigoted monsters is not EVER a good thing.
Don't save it until after the election, drop it. Realize that some things you are so sure of today will turn out to be wrong later, show some grace, some compassion, stop trying to show off how educated you are and listen and learn to become even more educated.
8
These pieces that criticize "wokeness" are the same as the decades of lectures we heard about "political correctness." The term immediately becomes a meaningless stand-in for whatever random stuff the author disapproves of.
Are some ordinary people on the left very bad at politics? Sure. As are many activists on the right. If you read any comments section you get an eyefull of truly thoughtless, hostile commentary that doesn't even begin to engage reality.
The solution is to be specific. Talk about real things, not generalizations. Flesh them out, make them seem authentic and urgent. Generalizations about "piety, circular firing squads, and shaming on social media" are the same sort of lazy put-downs Egan decries. As Obama said in this recent speech "That’s easy to do."
1
"Woke" is this years most trendy overused word.
5
As a long-lived boomer with a PhD and plenty of wokeness, let me beg readers to heed Mr. Egan’s warning. Condescension is insufferably rude and generally immoral, to boot. I’m accustomed to being insulted since I live in Alabama and am a good Democrat. We will not win in 2020, however, by insulting other voters. Sneer with your peers if you must, but restrain yourselves in public if you can. Please!
7
The problem is the propaganda from Fox and their ilk. Diminish/eliminate that, and Egan’s sister will vote for a tree stump
over Trump. And Trump will be removed from office in 2 months. Fix Fox and you will go a very long way towards fixing the US. If we don’t fix Fox, we might be kissing goodbye to the US we thought we knew. It is that simple.
2
"Save the piety, the circular firing squad, the shaming on social media for after the election."
Why shame someone? At anytime? Can't you just debate and maybe agree to disagree?
2
The ultras, the “woke,” form a mere fringe of Democrats. They are loud, they are persistent, they are far-out in some of their ideas, many are attractive, intelligent, articulate people, some are abrasive and obnoxious. None should be dismissed or disdained. There is a place for them at the table.
All the while, most Democrats are pragmatic. For them, indeed, “Politics is the art of the possible.”
In a time when we are flooded with contradictory voices, with a driving rain of information and disinformation, too many of us take shelter, sit down and zone out. Stop paying attention. Settle for whichever voice confirms our prejudices and soothes our fears.
Listening carefully and reading widely, weighing and analyzing, confronting our prejudices and admitting our ignorance, well, now — that’s hard work! That’s really challenging! It hurts a little!
So up pops the shameless fraud, the gross liar, the crowing demagogue. He makes everything seem simple and easy and painless.
This, Mr. Egan, is the problem facing us, not the woke progressives. Please, tell us what can we do about that.
2
I always have the same question, these days...who shall wake up the woke?
"Save the piety, the circular firing squad, the shaming on social media for after the election."
Maybe it is not such a good idea to be so explicit about your tactics.
A Trump supporting, distant relative of mine shared a divisive post on Facebook claiming that Democrats believe that all Republicans are racists. I commented that neither my Republican nor Democratic friends are racists. While the purpose of her message might be to cement resentment and support among among those who are likely to vote for Trump; but even worse, it foments division between decent American citizens.
2
This says it all: "I would vote for a tree stump if it could beat Trump." That dumb statement could very well see the Democratic party's version of Trump (a candidate who scampered through the hole left by establishment, mutually-cancelling wanna-be's) elected without anything close to a real mandate. If it's one of the progressives on offer, this fact will not prevent that President--Bernie? Warren? Mayor Pete? Billionaire Bloomberg?--from running massive social experiments cloaked in moral virtue.
That's why Trump is seen as a firebreak against truly radical elements that have learned nothing from the collectivist failures of the bloody 20th century. Often, the devil you know is preferable to the devil you don't. This will be the main message of the Trump campaign. Sounds like a winner.
1
It's hard for me to respect Trump supporters when the very qualities that sicken me to Trump, are the qualities that Trump supporters like about him.
1
The politically liberal people I know are respectful of all people, open to new ideas, generous, and intelligent.
Why not write an editorial to the Trump supporters, letting them know they are being brainwashed by propaganda from FOX News, labeling liberals as people who do not respect them, and lying about Trump?
Enough liberal-bashing, concentrate on the people being conned.
There is a difference between hardcore Trump supporters/cultists on the one hand and undecided independents and moderates on the other. Some comments in this forum confuse those two categories. It should be obvious by now that there is no point in trying to reason with the first group. It should be equally obvious that if the Dems alienate the second group (which, BTW, includes many African-American voters), the risk of re-electing Trump is very real. Shaming potential Dem voters for insufficient wokeness is not going to save our democracy, and at this juncture could very well help bring about its fall.
2
The NYT poll mentioned by Mr. Egan was contradicted the next day by a Washington Post poll that showed the any Democrat, including Warrren, would beat Trump decisively. Other polls have shown the same thing. I suspect the NYT poll is an outlier.
Almost all my relatives are Trumpistas. They live in a small town that is declining in population and which has almost no meaningful job opportunities. They have been totally brain-washed by Fox News. Believe me, nothing will change their minds, not me, not Biden or Buttigieg, not the Pope. The Democrat does not exist who could get their vote. It is a waste of time and effort to try to reach these people; such an effort will only result is moral compromises that perhaps should not be made.
BTW, I suspect a lot of the criticism of Warren is because she is a woman. Nothing irritates certain people more than a smart and assertive woman.
6
I'm not sure that "wokeness" isn't a red herring given to us by the "Wrong) Right. Not long ago it was awareness that got theflack. There are many things about which I am asleep or unaware. I make it a personal challenge in both cases-to wake up and become aware. It is my duty as a responsible human being. If I can also maintain a caring and courteous attitude, so much the better. But I confess to a certain pride in the act of waking up.
I was a Democrat until about 18 years ago, when I worked in a creative field filled with insufferable elitists. The cruelty and condescension with which they spoke about the working class (and this was way before Trump, so there was no excuse) horrified me and made me think, Well, if that's a Democrat, I want no part of it. Since then, I've often thought about giving up my NYT subscription when I read one too many smug or superior or snarky comments; but I actually have found that sharing these comments with people who think the Democrats are the party of compassion has been remarkably effective in exposing the ugliness and Reign-of-Terror tactics on the left.
6
@Anonymous Whereas you enjoy the Reign-of-Terror tactics on the right and think it's amusing when Republicans print crosshairs on Democrats' heads and you have not problem with white supremacist murders.
@roseberry
I shouldn't even dignify your ridiculous comment with a response, but I will say that I actively condemn a lack of compassion wherever I find it. It's just that in my own experience, I most often found it among liberal elitists.
I've encountered from SJWs the attitude that, "If your priorities are not my priorities, you're part of that problem."
Their logic is, I think, "If your priorities are not my priorities it's because of your privilege gives you the luxury and/or myopia of ignoring this and your refusal to understand the proper priorities makes you part of the problem."
It's a different logic than, "The world is complex and full of problems. Even if you don't prioritize the way I do, I can respect that there may be a lot of validity to the way you choose to channel your energy and resources."
Historically speaking, when leadership holds the attitude, 'if you are not part of my solution, you are part of the problem' the consequences can be horrific.
5
"The persuadable voters in these states, many of them working class, say political correctness has gotten out of control, and they prefer someone seeking common ground over someone with a militantly progressive agenda."
This is just another way of saying that the "persuadable voters," when asked, rattle off Fox News talking points they have heard day in and day out for years. They are not expressing actual values, but rather parroting back slogans.
People who speak in slogans are not "persuadable" through logic or even through an emotional appeal. The only thing that will work with them is more deviously devised slogan.
2
The right wing media have been able to accomplish what, as hard as they tried, the Soviet Union was never able to do during the cold war.
Split America apart. Denigrate our institutions, dismiss our free press as fake news. Convince Americans the enemy is their fellow citizen.
At least the Russians did it based on competing ideologies.
We're doing it to each other because of profit.
To me, that's even worse.
2
"For the record, I’m agnostic on the Democratic field. I would vote for a tree stump if it could beat Trump." If that's the case then I think Sanders and Warren should not be getting your primary vote. Why is "medicare for all" their rallying cry when "healthcare for all" is just fine and work out the complicated details over time as they will be regardless of that campaign "promises" are made. It is recklessly irresponsible and colossally poor judgement to be hijacking the debates with endless discussion when we know that millions of Americans are not sold on "medicare for all" as the right "healthcare for all" solution.
I voted Democratic for the first time in 1960 and have never even considered a waiver -was so proud of Shirley Chisholm and respected Jimmy Carter. But I never felt the need to be woke and have come to the conclusion that what has been termed 'woke' is in fact more a missing awareness of the world in which most of us live, work and survive.
Our world is build of reality, not theory nor idylls. We know that while all those 'isms' are wrong and hurtful, they are present and need to be whittled away at, not just hated. If you live in a community that looks, works, plays and thinks much as you do, you may have ideas on how others should live, but your vision is blurred.
To my eyes, all life is a continuum rather than disparate parts i.e. gender is not male/female but a line and we each fall somewhere on that line--most on male/female but not all. And so it is with most everything else. Woke may be a tad sleepy still.
We all want a better government, only our definition varies. But to get that better government we need to be willing to move a smidge or two along that line rather than planing our flag and hoisting our petard.
For those of us who want a rational president, how about giving up memes and tags and above all -attitude and get the job done. Then. we can name a committee on Woke.
3
Lot of comments about impossibility of changing minds of or meeting halfway to Trump supporters are correct. However, the major problem is with the solutions proposed by liberal Democratic presidential candidates. Much of what Warren and Sanders advocate and propose don't pass common sense, feasibility, or even economic theory tests. Progressives are so emotional and angry about having immediate social justice through governmental policies that they have become irrational at best and like Trump supporters at worst.
We need to make our proposals less extreme in order to not loose independents and moderates. Forget about those deplorable Trump voters, we need to win. Without winning there would be much more to lose. Even if we have a progressive in the White House very few of the radical ideas would become reality.
Obama asked for much less when Democrats controlled the House and the Senate, and still couldn't get what he wanted.
I have blogged about this issue before. Candidates like Sanders and Warren want to break the wheel and while in theory I agree with them, it won't win back the Presidency. My progressive friends don't like me for this but I believe it to be true. This is America, and short of dividing the country up, there is a large portion of the country that do not agree with the policy ideas of Warren or Sanders. You can't win a national election this way. A moderate democrat however can, and this has been illustrated by the wins in Kentucky and Virginia. The most important factor in the 2020 election is to evict Trump from the White House. If he is reelected he will reshape the supreme court for generations and be unfettered in his attacks on our democratic norms. We cannot let this happen. This is the single most important factor for 2020. We need a moderate candidate, who talks about the issues, strengthening the ACA, jobs and make working class people feel like they matter and have a voice. I agree with Mr. Egan in that if we dismiss these voters, we lose and we lose big. Their vote actually means more then our vote in Washington or for example, California. These voters will decide the fate of our nation. We can discuss the inequity of this another time. We have 12 months until November of 2020 to convince voters that the Democrats can make their lives better. If we fail, we lose more then the Presidency, we stand to lose our democracy as we know it.
3
As a nearly radical progressive I completely agree with the criticism of "woke"ness. I intensely dislike the term and the associated behavior. It suggests a binary condition of aware or not aware. But it means actually accepting the exact specifics of trivial dogma that a random few have deemed important and (mis)labeled progressive. A lot of wokeness has to do with styles and conventions of speech. And on this it approaches the opposite of progressive, Totalitarian. Free speech has to be central to genuine progressive policy. Tolerance does as well.
Giving up the demands of woke speech does not mean capitulating on any important aspect of progressive policy. It actually means implementing it better, and with some sense of humility and empathy.
5
Egan speaks approvingly of Biden, as if Biden were a friend to working-class Americans and understands their concerns in ways that progressives can't. Never mind that Biden's signature policies--support for NAFTA, banking deregulation, the Iraq war, and the bankruptcy bill-- have generated widespread dislocation and suffering among the middle and working classes. Nor does he cite Bernie Sanders's success in connecting with working-class voters, e.g., towns halls in West Virginia and on Fox News. And he offers no actual examples of "insulting and condescending" behavior on the part of progressive Democratic candidates, to which he has devoted this entire column. If any Democrats mistreat the working classes, it is the so-called "moderate" wing of the party, the supporters of outsourcing deals, profit-driven health care, deregulation, and tax cuts for the wealthy.
2
Here are a few easy ways for a candidate to avoid being tagged as elitist/condescending/patronizing. Start by asking questions. "Are you better off now than you were in 2016?" If the answer is yes, ask, "What's better?" If the answer is no, ask, "What has gotten worse?"
Then ask more questions, such as, "What do you want from government?"
A few questions and genuinely listening to answers should tell any candidate whether that voter is open to giving her/him a vote.
I am astounded that what we hear most on radio and television are candidates offering ideas, but we don't often hear a candidate start a meeting by asking questions of his audience (and actually listening to the answers and asking a thoughtful follow-up).
Good professors use the Socratic method. Most of the Democratic candidates are well-educated and should have been subjected to the Socratic method. It should not be hard for them to ask anyone easy-to-understand questions relevant to the presidency.
5
Maybe you should say "I am a Democrat" because my sister has been working for a profitable multi billion dollar corporation for 25 years and has little or nothing to show for it.
I am a Democrat" because thanks to her employers policies of profits above people, without Social Security and Medicare my "sister" might very well be spending her retirement years living on the street. Without access to medical care.
"I am a Democrat" because they fight for policies that can lift her up. The GOP is on the side of the haves...
"I am a Democrat" because I don't want to be a rich man in a country filled with poor people.
And keep going from there.
2
Some of it, I’m sure, is insufferable wokeness.
But I’m thinking that most of it is simply a reluctance on the extreme left to admit the inevitability of statistical data. I’m talking about the bell-shaped curve, here, that indisputable statistical reality that given any set of data, most of the data points will be grouped in the middle between the extremes.
This means that the further your ideas are to the left of the middle, the less likely it is that your fellow citizens will agree with you. By the way, this fact also holds true for the extreme right. I’m guessing here that one of the factors that feeds into this disconnect is distortion caused by Twitter. This can cause you to mistakenly believe more people agree with you than actually do. The bottom line is that the intensity of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party should be ignored. Not dismissed, not made fun of: politely listened to then ignored.
By the way, this is how democracy is supposed to work. If you are unable to persuade a majority of your fellow citizens to agree with you, your views don’t win. Democracy means you don’t get to decide, you are only allowed to express your view as persuasively as you can and then vote it.
If the woke continue agitating too aggressively against this reality, we may get four more years of Trump. The world is as it is, not as some might wish it to be. To pretend otherwise is a recipe for defeat in the 2020 election.
5
"Warren, the Harvard professor who recently suggested that moderate Democrats belong with the other party, could be more effective with these folks if she showed more of her daughter-of-a-janitor side."
A leopard doesn't change its spots. Warren is seen as part of the "Woke" and that is her biggest issue.
2
this is a toughie for me....first of all, I don't consider Trump to be a Republican or a conservative...I see him as an opportunist who judged that he could talk one party into voting for him more than the other party so it went with that party I'm the perhaps rare liberal that has conservative friends (and tie between them being that they are all anti-Trump).
Then within my own family, I have a fair number of Trump supporters and pretty much their main goal is not so much to support him but to own the Libs. I really don't think there's any way to pull them away from Trump other than simply not playing along with the triggers. Mayor Pete (and possibly now Bloomberg) are the top 2 who might achieve that.
14
This brings up another reason why I think Hilary Clinton lost. She was not behind the 15.00 minimum wage which would have helped Timothy Egan's sister. I also experience the holier than thou attitude of the progressive and affluent left as well as the affluent right. It seems to be wealthy people in general are looking down on those who aren't in their tribe. It is not a particular political party.
3
Could we be nicer at times? Yeah, maybe. But as Mr. Egan says, his sister sticks with Trump. Sorry, it's not the fault of progressives she does so. And she does not sound persuadable. Not at all. For my money, we need to energize young people, who are not much interested in more of the same middle of the road junk that got us the pre-Trump status quo.
2
I would characterize myself as to the right of center politically. But the fact that there are many people who base their Presidential vote on whether they feel personally insulted by one side or the other, as opposed to what they believe is best for the country, is yet another reason why we need to seriously consider requiring that voters demonstrate at least a rudimentary understanding of the issues and the candidates (e.g. by watching an approved online presentation of the candidates' views and past record) before being permitted to vote. And if anyone is insulted by this suggestion, tough.
4
Who are these people that supposedly "look down" on the working class? I'm an example of your classic coastal liberal, but I don't look down on the white working class, and I don't believe that anyone I know does either. We are confused as to why they continue to support Trump, but that's not the same thing. I want to preserve the right to choose, but that's not the same as looking down on someone's religion.
I suspect that this so-called elitist snobbery is just another invention of Fox News et al. If anything, it seems that the animosity is flowing the other way. Who are the ones getting called "snowflakes"?
7
@TM
I never watch Fox News and I read the NY Times - and comments.
You must notread many of the comments in these articles in the New York Times, a good portion drip with contempt. There is no engagement with valid concerns re illegal immigration because, to the woke, there are no valid concerns hence anyone who voices concerns is a racist.
I guess you also forgot Obama's "bitter clingers", Clinton's "basket of deplorables".
1
Obama was right. Guns and God are a thing. Clinton was too. Have you seen a Trump rally?
I think this article misses the point.
The thing that some people don't like about "wokeness" is the focus on everybody's rights but theirs -- as they see it.
So, for example, somebody might not like the focus on the right of transgender prisoners to get reassignment surgery for free. Even if they thought that was good policy, it affects fewer than 500 people nationwide, so they wonder, why are we spending this much time on it?
Democrats don't support illegal immigration, but, to read the press, they're very concerned with the rights of illegal immigrants. The Republicans portray the Democrats as in favor of open borders and the Democrats barely deny it (or, at least, it doesn't get much coverage, since it's more light than heat).
Religion? Lots of Democrats are religious. But some Democrats disparage religion in ways that some people find offensive. Personally, I think the religionists have earned the criticism, but I also understand how religious people feel about it.
Similar arguments apply to other wedge issues. Perhaps the biggest one of all is race. I think there's a strong argument that the right wing is bound together by only one principle, and that's "I don't want those people to get my money".
This article glosses over most of this.
8
Instead of wasting time and resources trying to convince hard core supporters of Trump, money and energies would better spent stimulating minorities to register to vote, and offering continued health and prosperity to independents and those on the fence.
5
I think we should spend more time increasing voter turnout than trying to reason with people who get mad that we, like, read.
6
There have been a number of Times columns on this this week.
My evolving conclusions, based on my guiding premise on most issues: look for the partial truths on issues which are more complex than they seem, are: Yes, Timothy certainly makes some sense here; but acknowledge that some motives to showing our lesser selves are more understandable than others (i.e. extreme futility about seeing our society retreat from the climate change challenge versus the fun of being snarky).
Seek to divide Trump voters by those with (and some will not like this word) “legitimate” reasons (i.e. even if you strongly disagree, are understandable and not racist) such as desire for some shake-up (and got more than they wanted), or truly couldn’t fathom the alternative, from the other, ugly variety. If you don’t know, assume the former, don’t give up on them, treat them with respect, and aim for quality conversations.
The moderate versus progressive framing we keep seeing is inadequate if we really need bold solutions to solve our problems, which doesn’t mean smaller, more comfortable changes don’t have a place along the way. A duality does not express this.
Winning elections is obviously vital, but re-building society to make those changes even more so. An overarching challenge is how to re-discover that oneness if we’re going to have a fighting chance. We’ll need to scale down generalizations, identity wars, and certainties; and scale up empathy, creativity, lifelong learning, and kindness.
Not mentioned in this important analysis is the explicitly racist declarations by self-labeled social justice warriors and progressives.
All white men are racists and misogynists according to the self-proclaimed “woke”. There’s no distinction, apparently, between Adam Schiff and Mitch McConnell.
As long as Democrats focus on identity politics and cultural issues, Trump and his ilk are “winning”.
It’s the economic inequality and the plutocracy in which we live the needs to be the focus of discourse and campaign communication to appeal to Mr. Egan’s sister and other Americans suffering in our modern day banana republic.
3
My political views haven't changed much since college. Now my 'woke' relatives consider me borderline supremacist and worse.
Democrats have turned hard left, the party of Hubert Humphrey is long gone. Discussions of political issues with Democrats always devolve into name calling or overt condescension... I'm a smelly Walmart shopping, gun and Bible clinging deplorable now.
226
@Lane I'm a moderate, right-of-center libertarian (small "l") who would love to see an Independent come to fruition (I'm not holding my breath). Currently, my left-wing friends consider me a conservative and my right-wing friends think of me as liberal (and I am, actually, although that's the opposite of "progressive"). I see the future of the Democrats as folks like Hawaii's Gabbard and Arizona's Sinema while the Republicans future I see as Texas's Crenshaw and South Carolina's Haley. I would be happy to see any of these folks on a Presidential ballot someday, but I fear that we're in a time of "extremists need only apply" politics. They're the ones who seem to garner the most press, anyway, which often translates to political success. Pity.
50
@Lane So the best way to teach a lesson to those mean old woke relatives of yours if to vote for Trump purely out of spite.
59
@Independent Observer . . . and I agree with what I think you are saying in that liberal and progressive are not always found in the same person. My view is mostly "live and let live" and stop trying to be right all the time about everything. Someone doesn't agree about say oh, whether the earth is round or not, well, let them believe it is flat if they want as long as they don't MAKE me say it is flat and don't insist I teach my children that it is.
39
This should be the most widely discussed issue of the 2020 election. Attitude will win or lose the election - not ideology. Unfortunately that's where we are right now with American voters. It would be prudent to take note of that.
2
Sorry but this is the same set of folks who have gone for the republican sham time after time, voting against their own interests. Railing about death taxes when, at that time, the vast majority of Americans had too few assets to be taxed at inheritance. Buying into tax cuts as spurring growth and innovation - never worked. Voting for a party that lets the wealthy run away with all the growth in assets over 30 years while wages stagnate for the rest. Vilifying teachers and education. Allowing Congress to become a nest of millionaires who could give a wit about public service (except a few). They are never going to change. We need to get women to vote and run for office. We need minorities to vote, run for office. It’s the only way to overcome ignorance.
2
The social bullies are everywhere. I wonder why we only focus on those that are identifying as democrats? The tactic of social shaming as punishment has a long and sordid past throughout human history. The evangelicals are the worst offenders in this realm rather than "woke" people. Can we discuss the behavior of social shaming and how it marginalizes and isolates people/communities as a general problem within American culture? When we ascribe these behaviors to groups and label them, embed them into political parties, we only serve to perpetuate the culture of shame and blame. And we keep talking about the white working class. NOBODY is talking about the black vote. Why isn't the NYT trolling through black or latino communities and delving into how we can get the black or latino community to vote, how they have been systemically shamed, blamed, and marginalized? How THEY can be the key to flipping the election?
5
I once commented on an opinion piece in the NYT that the far left’s insistence on multiple genders was as ignorant of scientific evidence as the far right’s denial of climate change. I was soundly criticized and rebuked. One response accused me, in very sarcastic and churlish language, of being a misogynistic, privileged white bro.
The extremes are becoming intolerant, and that intolerance is fueled by the echo chambers of the internet, the brand marketing of the two dominating political parties, and the slow but relentless demise of critical thinking. It has led to an absence of civility that is reflected in and represented by the person who is called President of the United States.
2
I am an old FDR Democrat, politically still in the 1960's, when liberals respected other points of view and welcomed intelligent discussion of different ideas. I am reasonably coherent, respectful and articulate, but whenever I try to talk politics with my progressive friends and relatives, I am met with a sneering laugh, openly derisive and dismissive of anyone so stupid that they do not see the virtue of unlimited illegal immigration, refuses to ask forgiveness for being white, male and heterosexual, questions the recent orthodoxy that there is no such thing as male and female, or tries to explain that condescending contempt is a poor way to garner votes.
These are highly educate people: one of these is a senior professor of sociology, another a Pulitzer winning author, another a distinguished lawyer. The laugh is always the same, as if they practice it together - a nearly hysterical giggle of embarrassment that anyone could be so stupid. I am made to feel as if I am mentally deficient, and they can't wait to change the subject to end the embarrassment of being in the presence of a knuckle dragging Neanderthal. Just imagine how a conservative reacts to this treatment.
580
@Someone else
I have a relative like you who visited us. He was a Neanderthal raving about political correctness.
It did not occur to him that homophobia is wrong morally not politically. Being disturbed about children separated from their parents was not about political correctness but moral rectitude.
I hope you find in your heart the comparison to to see immigrants for what they are, human beings no different that the pilgrims who risked all to come to America.
58
@Someone else
Right on, brother - man can you write.
Yep, with friends like these.... The establishment has flipped to the other side and pushes social justice warfare to avoid economic justice, which would make things worse for them. This way they don't risk their nest eggs and can feel morally superior at the same time!
57
@Someone else Your description of your progressive friends and relatives is the typical conservative trope and caricature of liberals. NO ONE wants “unlimited illegal” immigration nor your apology for being white, male and straight. You sound aggrieved. All progressives want is humane, intelligent immigration reform and that people who are neither white nor straight receive equal treatment, protections and opportunities.
151
I think EVERY pol in the world thinks he or she is talking to the people and not over them. Some succeed; some fail; all try. What is condescending is a columnist telling the pols that this is the correct strategy.
1
I've heard Elizabeth Warren speak in person, and she does not come across as a wonky, condescending person. It doesn't matter what she chooses to project -- Fox News and even the NYT are going to seize on whatever suits their purposes. Fox obviously wants to condemn her (and will find ways to condemn any Democratic candidate). The NYT -- I'm not so sure of your motives -- but that presenting Elizabeth Warren as a controversial candidate is more likely to drive clicks than the whole person.
I do believe it is a problem that we've become so insulated from each others' realities. I'm not sure what it will take to bridge that -- maybe national service? Nonetheless, if your sister knows you and still votes for a President who condemns journalists, what on earth would change her mind?
6
If Timothy Eagan’s religious sibling in rural Oregon does not feel that the Democrats speak directly to her and her values and she had no issue voting for a hateful, sexist, cheater then she is either “insufferably asleep” or Incredibly selfish.
Every citizen in this country is gifted with a free basic education. Ambition, opportunity, and privilege are the primary means to get ahead. If someone fails or did not fully leverage what they were given then that is on them and I would expect them to then seek to make it better for their children.
While candidates could temper their message to broaden it’s appeal, their primary goal during the primary season is to cement their base to gain the party nomination it is not to sway other party members to jump on the bus. Everyone is welcome aboard but you will need to do so based on how the candidate speaks to you based on their values and not expect them to change their values to speak directly to you
2
@Wendy Bartlett The public education system is not of equal quality since it relies on property taxes. So, the higher value neighborhoods tend to have better public schools.
Can you tell me how I am to talk to and respect folks that I advocate policies for that will help them make a livable wage, get health care and an education? Yet, in doing so, I am at fault? And, they can continue to rant on with racist, sexist language and want to take up guns against me if their candidate losses. You can’t even convince your sister. Help us all.
3
“The persuadable voters...say political correctness has gotten out of control”... The problem is that when conservatives say “political correctness”, they really mean “the expectation that we respect others”. So should we liberals stop pointing out that it’s wrong to demean those who are different than you? How ironic, considering that this column is demanding that liberals stop demeaning Trump voters. So... Trump voters want everyone else to be politically correct (i.e. have respect) toward them, but they don’t want to be told that they should respect anyone else. Sorry, nope.
2
The term "woke" (in the modern parlance , as it is used here) has its roots in the African American struggle for social justice. For you as a white writer to turn the phrase "insufferably woke" is, if I may be trite, insufferably not-woke. The argument that progressives need to tone down their egalitarian ideology to appease America's incessantly propaganda'd-to working class is a boring one; one that serves the interests of Obama's friends on Wall Street, and not a democracy of, by, and for the people.
Instead of hacking together a piece about how rabble-rousing progressives should shut up and accept an underwhelming status-quo patriarch like Biden, why don't you do the work of encouraging the disenfranchised working class and progressives to coalesce into a movement that actually address the root problems of climate change, wealth inequality, sexism, and racism. Rather than tearing down well-meaning people in the service of the hegemonic elites of the Democratic party, Timothy Egan, I encourage you to help us build a political vehicle that can make our society safe and just for generations to come.
1
Sorry, Tim. While I'll vote for a tree stump over Trump too, I'm also not going to dial down condemnations of willful ignorance and bigotry or stop pushing for what's right.
5
Tim Egan’s point can be put this way: nobody asked you to. They just asked you to stop bellowing, much like Trump bellows, at folks who might just be on your side after all.
I read under the illustration accompanying the article.
"People gathered to hear Senator Elizabeth Warren at a campaign event in Vinton, Iowa.
Credit Jordan Gale for The New York Times"
I see bodies but I do not see their heads.
On the upper left I see a photo that I presume is Timothy Egan's head but I do not see the body.
Hmm some may take the visual message as insulting and condescending to the Vinton, Iowa voters who gathered to hear Senator Elizabeth Warren.
1
Mr. Egan, no disrespect to you or your sister, but if she understands that she'll most likely have a better life under just about any Democrat, and yet is genuinely considering re-electing trump because she thinks the Dems don't respect her religion enough...then she deserves what she gets. It's just a tragedy that she'll drag the rest of us with her.
3
It is the rank-and-file democrats that need to hear this.
If we're spending time insulting the voters, instead of convincing them that locking children into cages is not decent behavior, we have already lost.
1
To someone like me who understands that we need to win before anything else, I'm terrified of people who say, "well, we lost but we stuck to our principles." Yet that's what I see in the far left wing of the Democratic Party. Trump is a total loser except in one way. He knows how to talk to resentful voters and how to stoke their rage and need for revenge against those they saw as looking down on them. And that's all he's needed to win in the current Electoral College system. We need to throw off the academic robes, grab a beer and sit down and talk to people who shower after work, not before. Joe Biden knows how to do this, despite his lack of rhetorical greatness on the debate stage. That, plus his experience and humanity is why I support him. And why you should too.
1
My family share many of your sister's values. We still have a good relationship; nevertheless, when one of my brothers defends the naked racism of this profligate president, I don't worry if he finds my response elitist or dismissive.
5
Talk about being intimidated by the bully and codependency. You cannot ignore the elephant in the room - the crazy factor. After impeachment, talk of the mental incapacity of Trump to be in office and the 25th Amendment begins. It is time to address this gilded age of extreme imbalances and a planet in peril.
1
We should be awake to the hazards of being woke. Living life as a minority or a self-appointed representative, with a hypersensitivity to every injustice, while pretending NOT to be concerned with what "white people" think, is a problem. Charles Blow asked Michelle Obama not to be concerned with racists' opinions. I don't, in truth, think she is. I think it's the other way around.
"Well, comrade Mostovskoy," said Sofya, "so much for your twentieth century. So much for its humanity and culture. ... Technology may be progressing, but what about ethics? What about morality and humanity? They're in some kind of Stone Age. [We've gone] back 50,000 years." --Grossman, "Stalingrad"
Note the way in which we now take the word "progressive" to mean good, and "reactionary" to mean bad; as if good is whatever comes next, and bad was whatever came before; as if moral and ethical and spiritual life advance unilinearly, in the way that science and technology do. And leftists who are concerned with imposing their moral views on everyone are hardly different from inquisitors and Maoists. Only now their view is that cultural relativism is the greatest good, that the particular is the enemy.
"The paradox is, that the very goodness of the goal defines us, its builders and defenders, as good, and hence opens the way to our grounding our self-integrity on a contrast case who must be as evil as we are virtuous. The higher the morality, the more vicious the hatred." --Taylor, "A Secular Age"
2
I don’t know what the answer is but, as someone who reads Fox News almost daily, I can tell you that the main culprit of why Mr. Eagan’s sister and her ilk feel so condescended to is the astounding misinformation and distortion disseminated by conservative media. Anyone living in that bubble sees progressives as arrogant lunatics bent on destroying this country and Trump as the knight in shining armor saving the country while also driving the elites crazy and putting them in their place. They love it and him.
2
I wonder if your sister enjoys seeing Trump at his rallies when he screams out racism and sexism and lies about anyone who doesn't support him or his uncivil behavior.
If so, then I'm not worried about her having her feelings hurt that some progressives look down on her.
If she can't take it, she shouldn't support dishing it out.
3
You can call them deplorable, as was done three years ago; or you can take the high road and simply discuss the wrongs that need righting, as was done nearly forty years ago by McGovern: it makes no difference to the deplorable or the low roaders, and it is only made worse by Democratic cannibalism.
1
Here's my question. Why is it ok for a third of republicans to make racist remarks about Obama's origins, but when when progressive culture calls that racist, they are somehow "Insufferably woke"?
What a ridiculous double standard.
But beyond that, how many "Woke" progressives do you actually communicate with. How many "Woke" progressives does your sister communicate with. The answer, probably not a lot. Yet, somehow, she knows that we all judge her? She knows that we look down on her? For the majority of progressives, thats just not true. It's a lie being fed to her by people who profit from her disillusionment.
And your suggested remedy is to accommodate those profiteers by blaming those who stand against them?
Do better.
4
Who are the insufferably woke?
So many on the left are so busy chastising others on the left for being too far left... nobody wants to come out and say it? Political correctness?
Your sister is a janitor. And the same intelligence that got her there has kept her in Trump's camp. How's that for politically correct? Too gentle?
The toxic nostalgia of rural America is regressive and reactionary. They will gladly buy into the pipe dream of "again" because they are ignorant. Clueless to the real imperfections of yesteryear, and unaffected by the positive progress made since.
The toxicity of faith in general is corrosive to modern America. She will vote for Trump because someone disrespected her sky fairy story? Grow up.
The reality is that we will not win by appealing with reason and decency to people who have neither. And make no mistake: anybody still supporting Trump in light of all he has done has no decency. And no integrity, for that matter. Their incoherent justification for continuing to support him is a thin cover for the fact that they enjoy having a bully pretend to be in their corner, because as lifelong losers, they have no power in the real world, and it feels good for them to think they are finally winning.
Too PC still? I'll go further.
It will never change. These people will watch family farms disappear and see their children perish in despair. They will lose their health and they will be lifelong wage slaves. They aren't capable of better.
Woke enough?
1
Woke is a joke. And it'll be on us Dems next November 4th when we wake up on the wrong side of the EC.
How do you treat an elderly relative who is a bit senile and falls for telemarketing schemes constantly? It is a tough balance, trying to help them maintain their dignity and try not to sound condescending while pointing out that, yes, the guy on the phone was a scammer and you should not do business with him.
It is a bit like that when dealing with the Trump cult.
3
I would just point out that Fox News and similar media tell it’s viewers and listeners constantly that liberals and Democrats are like this - that they hate religion and favor intellectual elitism and are being ridiculously “correct” at Oberlin College, and so forth. I wonder if liberal folks in Oregon are actually treating your sister this way, Mr. Egan, or that’s just what she is being told by a propaganda machine that has a strong vested interest in splitting her away from the party that has her best interests at heart.
3
Look, your sister “feels” versus critically thinks. That’s why Fox News works for those voters.
And lots of viewers vote using “feelings”-it’s easier, gives a sense of being right (who can argue feelings?), and requires no critical thinking.
Blaming Progressives with the old hat arguments the GOP uses is just plain lazy.
Your sister, and her peers, will always vote against their own self interest because they get all their “feelings” validated by their TV choices and probably religious affiliations.
So please stop telling Progressives to lower our standards to meet the rural minority.
Instead use your bully pulpit to get rid of the Electoral College and political corruption.
1
Those who cast their vote for President of the United States not based on what is best for the country, but instead based on the negative perception that they believe one side has about their intelligence or gullibility, should not be permitted to vote at all.
/s
2
The trouble with the 'common people' is that they are so common.
3
It’s a shame all this virtue-shaming...
"No doubt, some of those people are racist and xenophobic. But many others simply feel insulted and dismissed."
I beg to differ.
It's the the way around. And I personally can attest to it as I experienced first hand.
Two white men in their 50's working for VZ came to my house to fix phone line problems. I have TV running MSNBC and they asked if I watched FIX News.
I answered I have it blocked.
I asked why they so die-hard Trump followers?
Without hesitation and in one voice: because he hates and attack non-Whites. Then added: we want our country back.
I asked if they agree with Trump telling three American-born Congresswomen to go back to where they came from, and I got a resounding YES. One said" Blacks are not Americans"
It's never about lost/outsourced jobs, or stagnant wages.
It's all about preserving the White ethnicity.
4
So what's the path forward, exactly?
Who are these folks who do not like, what they are quick to label, the "condescending" others.
Where does that attitude come from? Sounds to me like they are liking their own attitude better than someone they simply do not agree with. Does narrow minded fit.?
Oh yeah....
My question to Mr. Egan's sister: why not vote for Amy Klobuchar or Mayor Pete? Are they too condescending?
2
Trump supporters are not looking to be understood or pandered to. They are bomb throwers and are quite certain their own Guy Fawkes is hard at work on their mission. Do you think Trump and his supporters are trying to reach out to Democrats, to hear their concerns, to respond to them? Laughable, right? And yet you're telling me my country's survival depends on bending over backwards to please the very forces working to tear it apart.
1
As a gay liberal, who's middle aged, for my whole life the Republican Party has been the party of economic elites (the wealthy), moral elites (fundamentalist Christians), patriotic elites (veterans), and legals elites (strict constructionists). Republican complaints about coastal and liberal elites is quite telling. They can dish it out, but they can't take it.
3
I won't blame myself for somebody else's vote. Your right wing neighbor doesn't want a conversation with you or your respect or to legally win an election. They will point a gun at you and get what they want.
Part of this problem is that people often pay more attention to social media that has little power and impact than they do to actually reading up on those who are in power and directly effect them. I don't know what the answer is to people caring more about being aggrieved and offended over sometime some random college student with a tumblr account or random retiree on facebook said than they are about the actual real government that runs their lives, but it is a big problem. Maybe schools should teach mindfulness? That would help in a lot of other aspects of life as well.
The opening line of Lao Tzu is "The path that can be named is not the unchanging path". He recognised this exact problem.
A person who was truly woke would never act like they thought themselves woke. This condescension is like Christianity without compassion or humility which we also see too much of.
3
Egan devotes an entire column to the premise that "Democrats are insulting and condescending" toward working class voters, without citing a single example of such behavior from an actual Democratic candidate. The closest he comes is a comment from Elizabeth Warren regarding moderates, without providing any context for the remark. And Warren does speak often of her modest background and her family's struggles, contrary to Egan's glib assertion. Furthermore, Egan fails to mention that Sanders enjoys widespread support among working- and middle-class voters; indeed, he fails to mention Sanders at all, as doing so would challenge with his facile thesis.
2
Kudos to Mr. Egan for penning a note with familial disclosures. It brings the argument closer to home for many of us. At the end of the day I think both ends of the spectrum, the hyper ‘woke’ crowd and the recalcitrant ‘MAGA’ folks have more in common than they think. Both display an alarming righteousness and certitude in their opinions and positioning. This ‘everybody else is wrong and I am right’ mentality is born out of trauma and disapppointment and it is selfish and not constructive to moving the majority forward. How there is even a ‘Women for Trump’ crew is beyond me and picking fights with folks with whom you agree on most issues only because the used the wrong pronoun seems, well just childish. Call me old-fashioned but both ends of the spectrum need to get over themselves so the rest of us, center-right and center-left can move forward.
5
Amen. Being talked to is better than being talked down to. It's that simple. The latter invalidates the other person. Offering others solutions, which address their concerns, or simply telling them you will fight for their needs goes a very, very long way. Hate Trump all you want, but that message is the clearest of his to them: you matter and I will represent you. When Warren, or Sanders says they'll fight the big banks, or the pharma companies, or the rich, it's not the same: they're tilting at windmills to them. Their fight is to be respected, to make a better wage, and to stay healthy.
Obama's middle path took us all further to the right. After Clinton had already moved the democratic party to the right. As most Times readers know, the democratic party is now to the right of Eisenhower and Nixon. The last thing we need is another guy selling us the middle.
2
After Trump won I was told that my party looked down on rural voters, that we treated them with disdain and laughed at them behind their backs. I tried imagining Democratic candidates in Iowa and Nebraska saying "Look you dumb hicks, I am here to save you so vote for me." I don't think so.
This is not about what the majority of Liberals feel, but about the Conservative Narrative that has fabricated this animosity based on cherry-picked moments. Yes, there are some "woke" individuals that believe an enlightened, comprehensive, radical realignment is needed to make this country great again but the vast majority would be fine with an Obama style administration. Sadly the Conservative Narrative turned even his moderate approach into something wild and socialist and out of control. And people believed it because they have been told the same thing for over 40 years.
The simply reality is most people think about themselves and their concerns. If a liberal were asked what they think about farmers they would probably say it was hard work that they couldn't imagine doing because it would be too difficult. That is not disdain or condescension. That due respect isn't shown is not out of malice but simple self-absorption in the same way I doubt farmers are thinking about law clerks. It's just there is a "news" source that spreads division and animosity for profit and an ideology which actually favors the wealthy. You needn't look further than income inequality to prove that.
1
Mr. Egan's sister's life is hard and she doesn't see her situation changing anytime soon. She is offended by any Democrat she believes is being dismissive and condescending toward her.
At the same time, she does not see Trump as dismissive and condescending.
I'm afraid there isn't much chance of winning her over.
The whole "rampage of the Democratic elite" jeremiad seems to have become a genre in its own right, but I always find these pieces short on reasonable advice on just what Democrat candidates are meant to say to people like your sister.
If your sister is fine with people pickpocketing her pay and trashing her health care, just why would hammering away on kitchen sink issues bring her into the Democratic fold?
This has come up again and again on the Times Oped page, and again and again.
Warren shouldn't say Latinx because it'll upset people comfortable with locking up immigrant children.
We shouldn't dismiss religious concerns because it might alienate people who think companies and government agencies should be able to discriminate against LGBTQ folks.
We shouldn't present ambitious health care plans because it will upset people seemingly willing to commit slow-motion suicide to make a point about . . . something something elites something.
Unless we want a candidate that promises to do pretty much nothing about anything - but they will feel that poor white's pain, feel it so very much - what can we honestly do?
I get the idea that a drowning person sometimes, in a panic, drags down swimmers who try to help them. But we're talking about drowning people who deliberately plan to take the lifeguard with them 'cause they think her tower chair is too showy. And the best advice we're getting is, "Let them drag you down, just until they get to know you."
Love this. I've been saying this for years.
I'm a moderate who has been pushed to the right by an ever left leaning Democratic Party. I've always voted for Democratic Presidential candidates and almost always for Democrats in general. I supported McCain until he saddled himself with that woman from Alaska.
I've seen the Democrats angrily, avidly, loudly and hysterically trumpet ever more "progressive" ideas and seen the same behavior from the other side. In both cases, it's partisan politics at its worst, and if you engage in it, you're the problem.
3
I know what you mean.
When I take moderate positions here and point out the failings of the liberal gods we are all supposed to bough to, I am also experiencing that undiluted condescension you are pointing out here. But the worst thing is that some part of me glees with the thought that that condescension may be rewarded by 4 more years of Trump.
Then I need to gag.
I sincerely hope Warren is not going to be the Democratic candidate. I would rather vote for a tree stump but for her.
3
The whole "rampage of the Democratic elite" jeremiad seems to have become a genre in its own right, but I always find these pieces short on reasonable advice on just what Democrat candidates are meant to say to people like your sister.
If your sister is fine with people pickpocketing her pay and trashing her health care, just why would hammering away on kitchen sink issues bring her into the Democratic fold?
This has come up again and again on the Times Oped page, and again and again.
Warren shouldn't say Latinx because it'll upset people comfortable with locking up immigrant children.
We shouldn't dismiss religious concerns because it might alienate people who think companies and government agencies should be able to discriminate against LGBTQ folks.
We shouldn't present ambitious health care plans because it will upset people seemingly willing to commit slow-motion suicide to make a point about . . . something something elites something.
Unless we want a candidate that promises to do pretty much nothing about anything - but they will feel that poor white's pain, feel it so very much - what can we honestly do?
I get the idea that a drowning person sometimes, in a panic, drags down swimmers who try to help them. But we're talking about drowning people who deliberately plan to take the lifeguard with them 'cause they think her tower chair is too showy. And the best advice we're getting is, "Let them drag you down, just until they get to know you."
The fetishization of rural white voters and their supposed hurt feelings over the alleged "condescension" of Democrats is a recipe for electoral disaster. Is anyone more arrogant or condescending than Donald Trump. He brags of his ivy league education as well as the ivy league credentials of his appointees. He lives in the world of wealth, private jets and private clubs--and puts it all on display as a symbol of his superior status and stable genius. So what's his appeal to rural white voters? He is certainly not one of them. His policies don't help them. But his long winded rants do something more important. He affirms and validates them--their cultural biases, their social prejudices and their racial attitudes--and, like a carnival barker, he brings into the side show. The Democrats will never win this group of voters. Democrats can win with significantly improved turnout among African Americans, Latinos, unmarried women, young people and that sliver--20 to 30%--of white voters who vote Democratic. What Democrats lack is a coherent vision, and integrated and easily understood program proposals (instead of a smorgasbord of think tank policy papers) that can excite its coalition.
The most amazing part of your article is my discovery that two-thirds of the population of the self described greatest country in the world doesn’t have a 4 year college degree. What has 200+ years of democracy industriousness achieved for the common folk?
The problem is that white coastal progressives despise white flyover-country moderates and conservatives. They prefer to virtue-signal their way into a second Trump term.
People mainly care how others in their immediate social group see them and the best way to seem to have certain beliefs is to actually have them.
Expect Trump's reelection.
2
I don't know how to talk to people like Mr. Egan's sister, and having read a number of the comments here, none offer anything approaching a coherent strategy for accomplishing this goal.
But some readers offer ignorant tropes or are just plain sexist.
The greatest number of migrants at our southern border are seeking asylum.
Asylum is a universal human right, codified by treaties written and agreed to in the wake of WWII. The United States has signed and ratified these treaties and the Constitution is quite clear that treaties are the law of the land.
These treaties include the right of requesting asylum in the first country the person feels safe, not its embassy in the originating country or some third, allegedly safe country, which in the case of Central Americans, doesn't exist.
Mr. Trump, the Republican Party and even some Democrats may believe these folks are doing something illegal, but they are not. They may call the asylum process "open borders," but it is not. This is well defined in international and domestic law.
Any politician labeling illegal what the vast, vast majority of this current wave of humanity washing up at our borders is doing is lying.
Using "schoolmarmish" to describe Sen. Warren's style is simply sexist. Professorial, while inaccurate in my view, would at least have some grounding in reality and not serve as a dog whistle about gender.
1
So wrong. It's not the good, honest working class people who lean to the right. I understand being scared of a socialist society (even though the largest socialist group in the world works just fine -- the US Military). I get that they still believe the Republican tropes -- more international security, fiscal restraint, upward mobility -- even if the GOP moved away from all that long ago and certainly under Trump. It's the old racist white men and women still screaming Lock Her Up for no reason about a former First Lady, Secretary of State and Senator, who has served her country well. Did she profit? Not as much as Trump and Moscow Mitch, that's for sure. Not as much as Giuliani's grab for Ukraine's Natural Gas. It's the MAGA hat wearers who want to go back to 1950, when they had a leg up by virtue of being white, or men. The ugliness they display towards blacks, Hispanics, women, gays is often shameful. Give respect and you get respect. That's a simple thing to ask and do but it's out the window with Trump. As long as they follow his crude cues, they probably should expect derision -- the same dish they dole out so boisterously.
2
I agree with this article almost to the letter but have to observe that the first thing that jumped into my mind when I read the phrase “virtue-signaling know-it-all’s” was the trio on FOX and Friends, or Rush, or Hannity. And who has a more condescending persona than that weasel, Tucker Carlson, unless it’s Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham?
My point is that the very nature of right-wing media is to present an arrogant, self-righteous, moralizing personality to less educated (or fundamentally immoral) people and stoke everlong anger and resentment with the goal of getting the viewer to agree with the host on just about anything, or to hold political views that may be completely contrary to policies that would improve the lives of the viewer. I would suggest that the reason your sister is tired of being condescended to is because the vast network of conservative media has convinced her she should be.
So yes, it would be better for everyone to tone down the arrogant knee-jerk Twitteratizi who might also happen to be on the left politically, but the real problem is the cancer of right-wing media that has tens of millions of Americans who have been conditioned to embrace the toxic arrogance of right-wing media as a cure for their socioeconomic ills. I’m sorry to say I see no remedy for that.
1
You are right that some people vote based on how politicians make them feel rather on than the outcomes politicians aim to achieve. You are wrong to blame others for them doing this.
1
I'm not so sure I agree with the premise of this article which I think is exagerated. I would have to include myself with the so-called "woke" crowd referenced here and I do have serious problems with Trumpsters of all stripes but I hardly walk around radiating a virtue-signaling, dismissive attitude toward them.
Resentment can have a life of its own - thank you very much - and needs very little help from its target.
My workplace is in a rural area and includes a wide mix of people - many with advanced college degrees and many earning minimum wage in various support roles. The latter group I have no doubt includes Trumpsters. And yet there is a harmonious, friendly professionalism that pervades the workplace. The working class staff has no reason to feel that the professional staff is condescending towards them.
Again: RESENTMENT CAN HAVE A LIFE OF ITS OWN - AND NEEDS NO HELP FROM ITS TARGET. When it does get help from hate radio and stupid television the combination leads to our current situation.
@COMMENTOR
Some further thoughts about this subject: This article seems to ignore the fact that long before Trump and the so-called "woke" liberals and their alleged condescending attitudes, there was a deep and bitter resentment and hatred of liberals and democrats coming from the right rank and and file - seeded and watered daily by conservative elites, politicians, and hate media for decades. That being said, the contentions laid out in this article seem bogus, overstated, and guilt-ridden. The idea that if only democrats would be more tolerant and better listeners, they could win over hardcore Trumpsters is ludicrous.
The “woke” wing of the party wants to abolish ICE, sees crossing border without authorization as just a minor infraction, and wants to offer free health insurance to all unauthorized immigrants. Yet, it does not want these unauthorized immigrants (who for the most part are poorly educated, speak little English, and have many children) to live in their own communities. The ‘woke” will not let affordable housing to be built near them. They say their roads cannot handle the extra traffic, their schools do not have enough classrooms, and so on.
The “woke” are more than happy with hiring unauthorized immigrants to do their yard work just as long as the unauthorized immigrants leave their communities at the end of the day. The “woke” expect these workers, whom they can underpay and pay "off the books", to live in poor and working class communities. The “woke” do not concern themselves with what Americans in poor and working class communities think about unauthorized immigrants overcrowding of their roads and schools.
The “woke” do not seem to care that their hiring of unauthorized migrants means that citizens will not get the jobs or that this is helping to keep wages low.
The “woke” have to wake up and see what it is like for the working class and poor to live in communities with large numbers of unauthorized immigrants. They, themselves, do not want to do this. Why should others be required to do so?
4
Don’t save it until after the election. Lose it. Period.
Egan's main claim here is that people like his sister stay with Trump because of the dismissiveness and elitism they hear from the other side, especially people like Elizabeth Warren. This is nonsense because people like his sister don't actually hear this from the other side, they hear it from their favorite (only) fabricator and aggregator of fake news, Fox News. It is also fascinating because on this very same day in the very same editorial section of the NYT there is a lead editorial about rich people decrying Elizabeth Warren for being out to soak the rich at a great cost to all of us 99%ers. Apparently, rather than being a polarizing elitist, Warren has the amazing ability to unite rich and poor against her campaign to tax the rich and aid the poor. Hopefully the great middle can unite behind her.
2
Rather than worrying about the "insufferably woke" who are surely a very small percentage of the population and the Democratic party, how about pushing back on the bogus attacks by the right-wing media and politicians that the entire left is nothing but these people? I am liberal and know literally no one who claims this moniker. It's a lie, like pretty much everything else the right puts out there. Stop telling us to be something we aren't in the first place, and start calling out the lies of the right!
Saying “political correctness has gone too far” today is like saying racism hasn’t gone far enough. The president is not making mistakes with they/them pronouns. He is providing cover for white supremacy.
This moment requires us to call out the difficult aspects of our culture that led us to this presidency. Calling out these issues is not sufficient but it is necessary.
"More than a third of Republicans tried to delegitimize [Obama], believing in the monstrous falsity that he was born in Kenya."
It's hard not to be condescending toward that, but Egan is right.
I don't need swing state voters. What I need is to move to a country that values people like me as much as it does the ignorant and uneducated. My Dad had an 8th grade education. You know how I became a member of the "Democratic Elite?" By going to a big public high school, staying awake in Algebra, and actually reading the book in English class. In most countries besides the United States, that's not a high bar to cross over. In this country, its equivalent to asking someone to fly to the Moon.
1
So from what I gather, being "woke" is yet another label that is being used as a cudgel against people who are anti-racist, anti-sexist, and believe that everyone has worth and the same rights as a full human being as everyone else.
While I do believe that some of the condescension of these "woke" people is counterproductive, I'd rather be called woke than whatever the opposite of that is.
1
Actually - taking the position that you should be "more understanding" is also being condescending and talking down to people. The discussion needs to be between equals, neither side can be "correct"
I hate pieces like these which uses terms like the "insufferably" woke" to compound a false narrative. To vote for Trump because of the belief that the "many" Democrats are "virtue-signalling know-it-all" and "dismissive of her religious beliefs and condescending of her lot in life" makes me realize that she has not met the huge majority of liberals and Democrats who are not that way and that she's being influenced by what she hears and sees in the media.
And people on the progressive left are not trying to tell others what is best for them. They're engaging in the field of ideas just like anyone else and hope that others may find those ideas persuasive. To blame progressives for being "condescending" is a malicious and subtle tool to cut off the conversation.
Egan makes the huge point that Elizabeth Warren is unappealing to the very people her platform is meant to help. For this ALONE she is is no-go for president (the cabinet is another story).
This made me wonder if the reason that NYT unofficially endorses her is NOT because she indicated to the democratic party establishment (two and a half months ago) that she would play ball with them. But rather that they KNOW she doesn't have much chance to win (and/or threaten their positions of power), but does have much chance of creating division... and revenue for them. Social distress may be the goal of both Russia and our mainstream media!
2
"She’s likely to vote, again, for President Trump ... Why? One reason is what she hears from the other side. Many Democrats, she says, are dismissive of her religious beliefs and condescending of her lot in life. She's turned off by the virtue-signaling know-it-alls."
I am sick to death of this line of thinking. You sister has agency, Mr. Egan. She is an adult and as one is supposed to take responsibility for her choices - that is what conservatives have been telling us for decades. I am no more responsible, no matter what condescending views of her religion I may or may not have, for her choice to vote for a man as vile as Donald Trump as I am for the lack of oxygen in Mars's atmosphere.
Donald Trump is everything Republicans said they were against. The party of a strong foreign policy, free trade, and family values has shown that they never really believed those things. The only thing they believed in was power - and once having gained it, retaining it at all costs. Trump's supporters remain his supporters despite all the incompetence and corruption not because of how the are treated by liberals but because they share a fundamental trait with Donald Trump - they hate the same people he hates.
It's that simple.
1
I get it but why is it Democrats who are considered rude and arrogant? Most Dems want what's best for everyone - schools, roads, healthcare that doesn't bankrupt a family, free to make choices for one's own body and free to worship a plant if one so chooses. I don't hear than from the other side. As for your sister, seems she's bought the rhetoric about who she is not from herself or Dems but from what Fox et al says the Dems are saying about her.
While I normally love Mr. Egan's columns, one quibble with this one. What, exactly, are Trump supporters who claim "political correctness has gotten out of hand" saying? To my ears, at least, that's code for a throwback to my youth (and I'm not THAT old) when kids in my high school referred to black kids as "spear chuckers," when my boss at the small shopper paper I worked for thought it was fine to leer at and pat on the bottom the sales staff, when disrespect and outright racism, not to mention mocking accents was the norm for Native Americans. Mind you, this was in Alaska, not exactly the deep south.
So before we pile on to those of us who are sick of this sort of behavior, let's dig into what, exactly, these people are so upset about. And if it's that they can no longer publicly express things that, quite honestly, they shouldn't be doing anyway, well, good riddance.
1
Egan skirts around the problem even while using it to bolster a false narrative of condescension. His own sister cannot be reasoned with. Why? Because there is an entire network of newspapers, TV stations and radio she can hook up to on a minute by minute basis to keep her addiction current and on track. White people are addicted to centuries old racism, misogyny, and power and these rurals voting for Trump are most assuredly white. For the rich, the ends always justify the means, even if that means is utter criminality. Rurals are being used by the rich through the miracle of propaganda. Propaganda which re enforces their racist and misogynist addictions plus the added 2nd amendment infantile need for weapons of war in the home. They've been whipped into a "Cival war" frenzy by their fears, amplified by the rich media owners megaphones of hate. Scolding me for being woke? Really? You're never going to get through to your sister Timothy. As long as she can so easily feed her addiction, you're going to get nowhere.
1
On the one hand, I see the author's point regarding his sister who feels talked down to by us "elite coastal liberals". But on the other hand, I wonder if that's really the case, or if these folks just listen to the never-ending drumbeat from Fox and Rush about how we "elite coastal liberals" hold regular folks in contempt.
Why do I wonder? I wonder because if there is one common characteristic I see on the right, it is an unwillingness to think for oneself and a tangible desire to be told how to think and how to feel. I think it's a shame, but I don't see it as my fault.
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With you on the insufferably woke, Tim, but I think you're not seeing Warren accurately. You see a Harvard professor. The people in her town halls, including in Iowa, Kentucky and Indiana, see the janitor's daughter. She's been where they are, totally hears them and champions them. She doesn't wonk them with her Plans, she listens and responds with respectful, clear offers to make their lives better. As she contacts with more such voters, they'll want the janitor's daughter to win.
1
The irony of this op-ed is that creates doubt about Warren, the emerging front runner, gives momentum to Biden, who has sort of lost his mojo, and tees up Trump to capitalize on the lack of "moderation" in the Democratic party. Now, if you stand up for equality in education, efficient border reform, world class health care, you are "woke." I am not so sure Obama's stance is the best. The inequality is gross, and it should be confronted. Equivocating about it seeds doubt, and fuels further oligarchy.
2
Great essay! Political Correctness has become imperious and insulting. It is the ideology of the elite--and the "regular folks" know it.
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@FrederickRLynch
Insisting that every single NFL player stand for the National Anthem or be run out of the league is its own form of Political Correctness, Frederick. It's just one you happen to agree with.
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Peasants in rural parts of the Third World resist getting inoculated against polio etc. Health workers on Ebola get stoned to death because locals identify them as agents of the disease. Religious fundamentalists propagandize about how public schools spread Christian ideology and seek to convert locals away from Hinduism, Islam, etc. My guess is that the author's sister fits into this global world of the "poorly educated" (to use Trump's term). Because they make up the majority of the world, they must be pandered to if elections are to be won. At the same time, it is not fair to criticize the educated for expressing occasional irritation and impatience--most of them are not 'woke', just better informed. The author does not want to address the fact that ignorance is a problem for democracy. I heard a Trump voter say on TV that she 'didn't understand' why military aid was being sent to Ukraine when we have homeless people who need help in this country. I think this is part of the tension of all modern democracies, an expression of class divisions, educational imbalances.
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I used to think as this writer does. But if you look closely at what people say and do you will notice that the fringes of both parties are alike: they condemn utterly the other side for the same things. Who is more died in the wool than an evangelical? The writer's sister, voting again for Trump who will give her nothing and take away what little she has, is incapable of changing her mind. Someone convinced her a long time ago that Democrats are snobs, and she is stuck. True, a large group of Democrats are indeed snobs. But so are a vast majority of Republicans. Tax cuts for the rich is about as snobby as you can get. Much has been made of the discovery that facts will not change people's minds. And it is certainly true to an extent. Facts are meaningless to uneducated people. They have never lived in a community where thinking, debate, exchange of ideas have any meaning. They want and need simplicity, easy answers, reassurance. A woman who has cleaned toilets for 25 years and is still stuck on Trump is beyond hope. A woman who has cleaned toilets for 25 years and reads and looks about is not.
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Author Timothy Egan's sibling says she's going to vote for Trump because she feels that Democrats are "dismissive of her religious beliefs and condescending of her lot in life" as a Walmart janitor.
Pathetically, she and too many like her (i.e., Trump's "base") have given their souls to Trump just as those who are frozen in apathy and low self-esteem "sell out to the devil."
It is absolutely Stunning how many Americans continue to look up to Trump as a fix-all, despite the very fact that it is he -- not Democratic leaders -- who mocks religious beliefs and condescends: en masse.
I've prayed that these ignorant people open their eyes against their blindness, and dismiss Trump.
After 3 years, my prayers still are not answered.
1
Well said, Timothy. But respectfully, you're the Democrat your sister knows the best. And might you be the one who's opinion matters the most to her? So if she's still planning on voting for Trump, perhaps it's worth examining what she's feeling from you -- while conveniently blaming all those others. Perhaps.
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i keep hearing about how patronizing Democrats are, but I have yet to meet one. The ones I know are deeply concerned about our country, and genuinely perplexed by what appears to be a reflexive choice of racism over solutions to our country's problems by a large swath of white Americans. I have tried a couple of times to engage in thoughtful conversations about values with Trump supporters, but a) was startled by how adamant they deny what I take as real, and b) their instant viciousness has been eye opening. my wife was in the airport on the day of the first Woman's March. She overheard a mom and her child talking about the news on the screen: the mother told her own child that it was all a ruse. To my mind, at this point Democrats' usual empathy and concern is beginning to appear as a weakness, when the opposite side is willing to trash every norm, break laws and risk lives of people who don't agree with them.
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As one of the unfortunate people in this country with a college degree, I'm not as bothered by the condescension. I do find myself asking why people of limited means are so opposed to gaining or using avenues that could lead to self-improvement. I needed school loans and Pell grants to get through college while working at gas stations (remember "full serve"). Fortunately I had my health but what I would have given for any sort of health care help back in the 80's. And I'm just an average white boy! But I never thought for a minute I wouldn't need to work hard to better myself and I certainly never expected the government to help me out more than it did. I'm one of those "ask what you can do for your country" type of people. Not "what can the country do for me" type. Which leads me to my real fear: I am a devoted and passionate "NEVER TRUMPER!". But if I had to pick between him and Socialism (aka Warren), he just might get my vote.
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I cringed at Elizabeth Warren's response to the question "What would tell folks who believe that marriage is between a man and a woman?" that was posed to her at a town hall. Her response - "I'm assuming a guy asked that question"..."I'm cool with that"..."marry a woman, if you can find one" - was presumably "woke," but was bitingly sarcastic and condescending. I don't want a sarcastic and condescending president. I don't want a president who shames people for not adhering to"woke" ideology. I want a president who demonstrates open, thoughtful, measured, empathic dialogue, where differences in beliefs are truly respected, where people actually listen to each other, where everyone can have a seat at the table and not be judged or shamed. Connection is everything.
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@Mary That was a huge mistake. We can’t just rely on voters who think just like we already do to win elections. A lot of people in the country are behind the curve on gay rights. We don’t get them there by insulting them.
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@Mary
Partisanship takes a terrible toll on "mixed" marriages. More women vote for Democrats than men. In the Obama/Romney election the gender divide was larger than ever -- 20 percent. This divide exists regardless of age or nationality. Women tend to favor Democratic policies such as education, safety nets, and healthcare for the working class. Women married to Republican men who watch Fox News, whose anchors laugh at and shout down Democratic guests, have to endure the same behavior from their husbands at home. Women have an extremely hard time voicing their values with Republican men when their children are teenagers. Most women don't, to avoid conflict. And woe to the teenage girl who thinks abortion should be legal, or gays should be able to marry, or who liked Obama. Republican fathers will drive her to tears.
It's not Warren who is intolerant. It's Republican men. That's what Warren meant, and I agree with her. Men have become insufferable even with their own wives and children under the influence of Fox News.
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@Mary Fascinating that you find marriage equality to be "woke" ideology and not a human rights issue that has already been answered by our court system. She answered the exact question he asked, and he didn't ask the question to be open, or thoughtful, or empathetic to LGBT people. He asked the question to trap her, and she didn't fall for it.
1
Neuroscience shows that emotions play a very important role in elections, most people dislikes professorial righteoussnes. The Democratic Party needs a centrist candidate respectful of our differences.
4
"But... but... I'm so right and they're so wrong! It's not my fault!" - every Insufferably Woke-ster, ever.
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@Alonzo Mosley
Everybody thinks they're right, and those who disagree with them are wrong. It's only when a liberal expresses strong opinions with confidence that it's some terrible crime of "insufferable wokeness"
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And please stop having Senator Schumer be a spokesperson. His manner of speaking and looking over his glasses is off-putting.
The description of looking down your nose at someone applies to him perfectly.
P.S. And I like him
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@Independent Thinking Yes, a thousand times. Is he so vain he won't wear bifocals or progressives, and has to keep putting on those reading glasses in press conferences. Does any other leading politician do that? With all due respect, he looks like an old stereotype of a grandma from the last century. Given his leadership position, it's been shocking how poorly he has done as a communicator and spokesman for the Democratic Party. Sorry, but appearances matter in politics. Does no one on his staff have the courage to tell him he looks ridiculous.
That nasal rich guy twang, is so condescending in tone: he sounds like he is lecturing unruly grade school children.
Don’t we have anyone on the Democratic side who sounds articulate and passionate?
It's not only the politically thing to do to connect with these people; it's also the morally correct thing. These are our fellow citizens in trouble. Their being less educated is not the same as their being stupid.
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"No doubt, some of those people are racist and xenophobic." Was writing this really necessary? The woke never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Well done!
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Good article , Thank you.
1
Lies trump truth. Lies are naughty, rebellious, sexy, secretly admired, and would probably poll higher than truth if people didn’t lie. Truth is politically correct, essential, scientific, boring, democratic. The current president is a verb,i.e., trumps truth, always acting, reacting, lying, exciting, media gorilla. The democrats are adjectives, not even adverbs, boring, media wannabes, virtuous. Personally, i'll take boring truth, better for people and the planet, and i’m not lying!
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How can Timothy Egan write this piece without realizing how astonishingly condescending he is to white working class people? "No matter how much . . ." he mansplains the state of politics to his sister, she still doesn't get it?? What? This whole article drips with the very condescension he so derides. Working class women - both white and those of colour - care about free college, free health care and free child care. It sounds like Mr. Egan has spent too many years surrounded by privilege and literary accolades. I'd be more interested in hearing from his sister.
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So, she's your sister, you talk to her, and you can't change her mind. How do you imagine that a Democratic candidate for office might do so?
Writing in the NYT that she cleans toilets at night and can't save for retirement seems a little patronizing, no?
Doctor heal thyself.
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Totally agree.
Yep. Job 1 is winning the Midwest. Not ideological purity
3
I only know what l've seen, but I haven't seen Ms Warren act in the way you describe. Ms Clinton certainly did (God how stupid do you have to be "the deplorables."). On the debate stage Ms Warren inevitably tells a story of her own white lower middle class struggles. If she said "moderate democrats should go to the other party," then that would be a truly stupid thing to say, but I haven't heard that and you gave no link.
3
This essay left me remembering things. As a child of the 70s, I can remember the disgust with which we viewed both the hippies AND the Nixonians of the late 60s. We thought they were, both sides, reckless, selfish and repugnant. I suppose nothing has changed—the “woke” crowd wants a kind of ultra liberal fascism of the mind, and the Trumpers just want fascism.
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Tim, what if the “insufferably woke” actually weren’t, but Fox News kept telling your sister they were? What if the NYT did it in Fox’s place?
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Depressing when the highly educated liberals like Egan with an influential bully pulpit engage in criticism without justification. They apply labels “elitist”, “woke” “political correctness” or “electability”. Words that criticize without doing the real work of explanation. What of Warren”s or any other Democrat’s policy doesn’t address his sisters - and perhaps use some examples that his sister would understand.
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I've been a liberal Democrat for over fifty years, and I must admit that the cult of "wokeness" horrifies me. It reminds me of the perpetrators of the Terror of the French Revolution, who, having killed all the aristocrats they could find, began to kill each other. God forbid the perfectly woke get real power.
On the other hand, Republicans/conservatives have been not only condescending to liberals for decades, but smearing them with the foulest insults they can think up. We've been called fools, idiots, elitist, un-American, ad infinitum. My favorite is "treasonous weasels". They believe Obama was born in Kenya because it's the only way they can de-legitimize the election of a black President.
Mr. Egan's sister is a lost cause. People forget that Oregon was once a bastion of racism, even turning black immigrants away at the state line.
3
Shorter useless left: "Warren is scary and she is a girl."
The right LOVES a far right fascist like Trump, but the Left cannot stomach someone who has truly progressive ideas? Yep. Everything proves that America is a mediocre place.
Obama did not have one progressive bone in his body. He is a Republican like Clinton was...just not a far right fascist Republican.
2
talk about irony...
Your the one lecturing about not being dismissive of Trump supporters and moderate Democrats and yet couldn't resist writing
"No doubt, some of those people are racist and xenophobic"
I guess it's hard to fully suppress your abhorrence for us "deplorables." It's just in the DNA of our supposed "elites."
4
Oh Hey Tim Egan, you "forgot" to mention Bernie Sanders. You can't even say his name, I take it. I remember in 2016 when he was holding massive rallies in "your region" every few days at the height of the campaign—an undeniable political phenomenon—and you could not in your writing bring yourself to acknowledge the obvious import for the party. I've followed you for years as a reliable reporter on the Pacific Northwest, but when I saw how you handled that Northwest story...I didn't exactly "cancel" you, but your lack of fairness did send up a red flag for all your future writing.
And I see you are doing it again. You don't have to like or agree with the guy to list his name with Biden and Warren as one of the top contenders. If your candidate HRC had chosen Bernie for her VP at the convention, who do you think would be sitting in the White House now? But no, you talk about "my way or the highway"! And aren't you "canceling" Bernie? The New York Times has been canceling people for decades. One of the reasons Trump's "fake news" gets traction.
1
"What, then, does Egan want?"
This really is the point!
Do "woke" progressives need to dumb down their policies for ignorant white people? Speak baby talk so they won't sound condescending? Or tell some racists jokes, and agree that there were "good people" carrying swastikas in Charlottesville?
Should black/brown/LBGT people move to the back of the bus? Or wait a few more unspecified decades for ignorant white people to agree they are full fledged Americans!
I feel that Egan, and the rest of the comfortable white centrists simply want "woke" progressives to sit down and shut up, and vote for their weak centrist candidate who will immediately morph into Republican-light, nothingness.
More years of watching a Democrat grovel for compromise from the GOP who wants nothing to do with them. More groveling to Wall Street who simply want to fleece the few FDR gains the middle class has left. More groveling to fossil fuel companies who simply want to watch the world burn for their 30 pieces of silver. More groveling to religious theocrats, who want to put women to death for a miscarriage!
This is now a polarized country, you either have power or you don't, and when you have power you better use it. Because the Republicans don't care what an inner city resident wants, they don't want to understand or seek consensus on tax cuts, they don't really care if they win because they have enough centrists Democrat sellouts who will always vote for the GOP when it counts.
2
I don't see liberals condescending or talking down to Middle America. I DO see them, and myself, deploring the stupidity of people, not who voted for Trump, but who after three years of blatant corruption, lies, demagogy, and incompetence, still love him. If that's not stupid, then it's worse: it's putting a literally religious faith in an obvious fraud, grifter, and shameless narcissist. Stupidity can be enlightened. Irrational faith isn't available to that.
Nothing short of cult deprogramming is going to enable Egan's sister to see that she's backing someone who wouldn't give her the time of day and is only in it for the money and the ego. The Dems have their work cut out for them reaching a certain segment of voters, but trying to win back Trump cultists by not being "condescending" is a waste of time.
1
I just don’t see Warren as particularly “woke”, as in the virtue signaling elitist who looks down on the rest of us.
I would be more careful applying the label of moderate to candidates. That has come to mean sympathy to Wall Street, banks, developers and the military industrial complex to many voters. I will not vote for any of those candidates.
1
The voting in national elections is not the problem, the problem lies in primaries. The "woke" and hyperactive liberals, and now the hyper nationalists, modified Reagan republicans and condescending conservatives, force candidates to be the more "left" or "right" to get the nomination.
Those of us in the middle, the "silent" demoblicans and republicrats, provide most of the votes in these elections. But many more would vote in the general election if the primaries were blown up and done differently.
First, all primaries should be open, so that you don't have to declare any affiliation. Second, primaries should all be held at the same time. Winner take all. Held at least 4 months prior to the general and then running mates chosen.
Third, electoral college voting is proportional in each state based on the popular vote, not winner take all. That way we can keep the process as an official institution without it voiding the votes of millions of Americans.
Primaries have tiny turnouts, and small states tend to determine who is even running when other states have their primaries and the conventions become useless formalities.
Get the stakes up in primaries, the middle of America will drown out the core, closed-minded, robotic voters that give us worst of two evil options every 4 years.
1
The woke, call-out, cancel culture that has reached parodic levels on college campuses—and has begun to seriously infiltrate the real world—will re-elect Trump in 2020. It's almost as if this culture was created by the right as an easy way to stay in power, keeping all of those policies in place that progressives so loath. By breathlessly denouncing Barack Obama for being a paternalistic boomer they are basically reelecting Trump. Many voters—not just the rural, less well educated—are sick of the bashing of reasonable, well-meaning people by a bunch of entitled, coddled know-it-alls who love calling out the less sophisticated for whatever intersectional offense is in vogue this month. This has got to stop.
3
Is it really too “extreme to bear” (the definition of “insufferable”) that those of us who have been denied equal access, opportunities and protection under the law would like to have our concerns and voices addressed in the public policies that are promulgated?
That we are every bit as much “real Americans” and deserve to be honored and respected as those who live in rural areas?
Why are there NEVER calls for these people who vote for someone who boasts about casually sexually women and believes he is above the law to attempt to understand us? Why are we the ones always called to compromise, listen, have empathy and to understand their concerns but there is no demand for understanding or reciprocity.
Have YOU ever been denied access to a bathroom? Had your papers checked? Assumed to be a “taker” instead of a “contributor?” Had a president come to YOUR city and informed the public that you don’t want “those people” in your community?
Every day there is a another op-ed about how we are supposed to speaking with dulcet tones to people who vote for policies that actively harm us. I have NEVER seen an op-ed that suggests that the diverse, economic engines of the country might be doing something correctly.
When are you going to print that op-ed?
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