Chicago has not “embraced scooters”. Chicago had a time-limited, geography-limited trial, which has now ended.
Scooters are currently being used in Charlotte. They don't belong in cities because there's no dedicated lanes for them. They're too slow to be ridden with cars on streets and too fast to be ridden on sidewalks with pedestrians, but nevertheless riders use both. I've come close to being hit several times on sidewalks by scooter riders because they aren't used to the speed and the handling limitations of scooters.
A question no one seems to have an answer for: who is liable when a 150 lb rider going at 10 mph runs into your 40 lb granddaughter? Your little girl will be seriously hurt, but the rider may not have insurance and I doubt scooter companies will pay up if they're charging 15 cents per mile. We can ask the same question of cyclists, but cyclists ride on bike lanes and most riders actually know how to ride a bike so there is less likelihood of this type of accident happening.
I also nearly hit a couple of scooter riders once. I was coming out of a parking lot. As I saw a break in pedestrian traffic, I started to pull out onto the road. At the same time, two scooter came from the pack of pedestrians and sped in front of my car. Pedestrians walk at 2 to 3 mph. Scooters travel three times as fast. Am I liable if I hit the scooter riders?
71
Having just returned from Paris, I can say the scooters are a nightmare for both cars and pedestrians. Riders just barrel through both and when finished just drop the scooter wherever. It will be the same in NYC.
86
I’ve seen exactly the same thing in Paris, and couldn’t agree more.
19
@LB
Exactly correct. I noticed the same thing in Paris -- piles of scooters laying around on street corners. Surprised that Parisians don't dump these nuisances straight into the Seine.
6
Funny. Yesterday, while I was trying to walk 10 blocks to my bus stop on San Francisco's downtown streets in a lot of sciatic pain, I wondered if my trip would be a lot less painful if I rented a scooter. Once on the bus I had to admit it probably would have been a lot less painful than pounding the pavement. Had I not spent most of my walk avoiding bicycles and scooters on the sidewalk, which made my walk even longer and more painful however, I'd be all for it!
1
Here's the latest example of new technology being put to use for all the wrong reasons and in all the wrong ways...
Is there something wrong with bicycles? Or walking? What is the problem with the various forms of mass transit that already exist? This new toy is just another example of the selfish, me-first mindset that seems to infect society at all levels these days--
leading to the predictable end that we all know is coming--
In the meantime, you pedestrians had better have eyes in the back of your head!
6
Scooters are a step to an auto-feee NYC. Drunken drivers of automobile & trucks are responsible for thousands of pedestrians & bicyclists. Scooters are new and that scares people. But you won't get killed by a scooter. No more free parking for private autos on public streets in NYC.
2
@Herbert Witzen
Please search:
"people killed by scooters”
Many have been killed.
What we really need is truly safe, four season, rain or shine public transportation: the return of STREETCARS.
1
In Lexington, KY, two days ago, a man on a Lime scooter was killed because he lost his balance. No word on whether he was DUI. People can operate these things without helmets, without training, etc. Seems risky to me if you're not used to driving one. Do what you want, but they're not for me.
3
I'm a native New Yorker living in Downtown Los Angeles, where we've embraced, and fought about and against, scooters for about a year. I lived in Hell's Kitchen, the UWS and the UES, and I cannot imagine seeing (and dodging) in Manhattan the number of scooters we see on our much wider, somewhat less congested streets and sidewalks. And here's something I rarely hear discussed (but see on our walkways daily, especially on the streets near Skid Row): the dismantling of scooters–not in protest, but by street denizens, who remove and sell the batteries, leaving useless carcasses of scooters to block pedestrians' passage. One more thing we've seen in DTLA more often than you'd imagine: the use of scooters by mentally ill or drug-addled humans as weapons, flung into the streets at cars, and tossed at passers-by. Yeah, that'd go over well in Manhattan.
5
News articles tend to put the happy spin on these menaces but pedestrians have a very different story to tell. Scooters themselves are not irresponsible and might be an alternative for the final leg of a commute but the vast majority of the riders are irresponsible and reckless. They tend to be drunk, don’t observe rules of the road, and leave discarded scooters in the middle of the sidewalk, creating hazards for anyone with impaired mobility. They are so irresponsible that they scream from behind me to get out of the way as they ride 18 mph on the sidewalk. Pedestrians have the right of way and scooters are not permitted on sidewalks but what do they care. Furthermore, it is ridiculous to say that these menaces are environmentally friendly. They are charged by electricity and they don’t last long, clogging landfills with these ruined messes. Municipalities do not have the resources to fund the perpetrators so the scooters should not be permitted.
4
Why is it that there is no enforcement of basic traffic regulations for bikes and scooters? As a Pedestrian I need to always watch if either one is about to run me down!
That this is allowed is just another example of our progressive politicians.
2
Scooters, bikes, skateboards should all be banned. A bicyclist clipped me peddling blithely toward the Hudson River. You take your life into your own hands with every street crossing. Terrifying.
3
“Some riders have even been scootering while drunk” you don’t say!
If it weren't for the quick thinking of a total stranger, I would be dead.
The other day, he and I and a few other pedestrians were waiting for the crosswalk light to change at a very busy and congested intersection. As the light changed, a motorized scooter ran through the red light and came barreling towards me. A complete stranger who was standing behind me pulled the hood of my jacket and me out of this irresponsible motor's path just in the nick of time. If this stranger had not been so observant and quick to act, I would have been run over by this driver of the motorized scooter, not to mention the oncoming traffic.
Worse yet, the knucklehead kept riding away, either completely obliviously to the situation or didn't care that he could have killed me.
A consistent problem I witness time and time again is that bicyclists and scooter operators don't seem to care or realize that pedestrians, that's correct, pedestrians have the right away, NOT THEM. They do not see us.
These irresponsible jerks ride on the sidewalks & in crosswalks, regardless if people are present or not.
I know in my heart that one day, a tragedy will occur involving a pedestrian at the intersection I was present at the other day.
I wish cops would ticket those goofs as they do with automobile motorists. In theory, there are no two different sets of safety rules and regulations, however, in practice, there appears to be.
Once again, a sincere thank you to the pedestrian who saved my life.
8
These things are an absolute menace. I work and live near a major college campus and see students either on these stupid things or else see them littering sidewalks near intersections. I routinely see people riding them but they never wear any safety equipment and seem to think nothing on tooling along the middle of a busy street in rush hour traffic, oblivious to cars and trucks with frustrated drivers zooming around them.
2
Replace the word "scooter" with "car" and see how ridiculous article is. Every argument against scooters is true even more so for cars, but God forbid anything is ever done about cars. Drunk drivers? Check. Left on sidewalks? Check. Driven recklessly? Check. Not all drivers obey the rules? Check. All options to deal with them on the table? Never mind.
3
Someone else's junk littered everywhere, no consideration of the urban landscape, constant danger either in the street or sidewalk, just so some tech guys can make millions.
3
Pedestrian Fatalities in New York City From 2014-2018, NYCDOT, NYPD Traffic Fatality Database , As of 10/2019.
Three-quarters (78%) were struck and killed by cars, 12% by trucks (excluding pick-up trucks), and 9% by buses.
Pedestrians killed in collisions with a bicycle were rare (4), accounting for 1% of pedestrian fatalities.
According to the NYPD, there were 228,047 car accidents in 2018 citywide. ... 19,000 Car Accidents per month. 4,750 Car Accidents per week. 678 Car Accidents per day.
All the anger and negativity seems misdirected.
2
@Hal Kennedy Using stats quantitatively misleads. How about all of the near misses?
@Hal Kennedy
You seem to be saying that since cars cause more damage than bikes and/or scooters, that it does not matter what riders of bikes and/or scooters do. It is irrelevant, because cars are worse.
This is, at best, flawed logic.
2
The manner in which so many of these scooter drivers operate their vehicle so erratically and irresponsibly, it's a toss up if they are drunk, impaired or simply reckless and thoughtless.
3
I ride a bike for transportation and am fascinated by all the different electric powered things I see in New York City. Electric skateboards are very popular. E-bikes first adopted by Asian delivery cyclists are becoming common for commuters and shoppers. The mono-wheels are amazing.
Two questions for which I hope someone can answer.
1) How is $1 plus 15 cents a minute competitive with a subway fare except for the shortest of trips?
2) Why wouldn't any regular scooter rider not just buy their own scooter (or skateboard or other e-micro transport device)?
@Mark
If privately owned, theft is too real a possibility. If corp owned-meh...
@Mark They might not have the ability to store it in their home.
As usual whenever something is new, there is a moral panic. Some people ride scooters while drunk, oh the horror! And we absurdly throw the book at them ("face the same penalties as if they were operating a car"), even though they largely don't endanger anyone but themselves, unlike drunk people driving cars and trucks.
The laws need to adapt and recognize that a tiny electric motor with maybe 0.1 HP on a vehicle which, including the rider, weighs at most 200 lbs, is nowhere comparable to an SUV with a 200 HP motor and weighing 4000 lbs. What's that thing Spider-Man said? "With great power comes great responsibility". Here the difference in "power" is literal.
7
@Bob
A rider abruptly steers his scooter directly into my lane, while my SUV is moving straight ahead at legal speed. I swerve to avoid him. So far, I’ve averted a collision each of the three times this has happened, but it’s been close. I don’t want to kill anyone, or maim them, or run into someone else while avoiding the scooter. What do you suggest we do about riders who fail to obey traffic laws, endangering themselves and others?
9
@Bob -- you DO want to penalize drunk vehicle operators no matter what the vehicle is, because driving while drunk leads to dead people and people with lifelong injury. Who cares if a scooter isn't an SUV. Why not compare it to a tractor trailer?
Operating a vehicle while drunk means you might hit anyone, and scooters are aimed at use in densely populated areas, so your drunk scooter user is endangering pedestrians, cyclists, other scooter users, car drivers as well as themselves.
So suppose your friend the 200-pound scooter drunk is riding down a sidewalk and hits a kid in a stroller? Will you rush to tell the parent to be thankful it wasn't a car?
Ditto if same drunk driver is on their scooter on a busy street, doesn't see the obvious pothole, and a driver swerves to avoid them - but hits someone in the bike lane or another car?
Drunk is drunk. Same penalties apply. That's why we have cabs and rideshare and things.
4
@MPN ET Build proper infrastructure to support sustainable modes of transportation. What should we do about people who drive SUVs which are unnecessarily dangerous for anyone not in an SUV of their own?
2
What about cars?
https://patch.com/new-jersey/hoboken/serious-injuries-fiery-hoboken-car-crash-police-say
https://patch.com/new-jersey/hoboken/driver-hoboken-crash-charged-dwi-pedestrian-hospitalized
11
Our experience here in Santa Monica has been so very positive: scooters strewn across sidewalks, making wheel chair and walker access impossible; riders ignoring helmet laws; death; sidewalk riding and collisions with elderly walkers; collisions with strollers; drunk "scooties" zooming in bike paths...going the wrong way against traffic....
Yes, scooters have a place in the large transport picture, but unless the rules are adhered to, they are a menace, not a cure for the traffic problems....
12
@William Fordes Wasn't Santa Monica the first city - where people started documenting the destruction of these scooters? Dropped off balconies, tossed into dumpsters, tossed into the ocean - and this wasn't only the work of teen vandals - this was people making what they considered a political protest.
1
@William Fordes, but don’t you find the ones frustrated residents and pedestrians have buried in beach sand lending a certain sculptural quality to an otherwise uninteresting seascape?
1
You can’t get a DUI on a non motorized vehicle, including e bikes and scooters, in NY state. This should be fun.....smh.
2
@Matt If it's electric, it's motorized.
Look folks, the world is already so overpopulated that it is causing problems everywhere. So lettem ride! Where ever, when ever and what ever the conditions of the rider, traffic, weather, etc. We'll breed-up a new replacement every few seconds, so no worries.
2
I have witnessed the scooter explosion on both cost and, in particular, Hoboken.
My three cents:
If you have working feet and legs, please walk; it's better for your health and it's better for the environment.
Anyone on a scooter over the age of 10 looks like an idiot.
Please do a follow-up on the number of injuries riders sustain on these things.
10
Urban cancer.
5
Electric scooters, e-bikes, e-skateboards, whatever... if it's powered by anything other than human muscle, it needs to be regulated and licensed. And there needs to be some sort of effort by the police to ticket all the idiots speeding the wrong way, not paying any attention to the laws of the road and generally just being dangerous to pedestrians and weaving in and out of traffic.
4
Scooters are awful! Riders somehow feel empowered to ignore pedestrians, cars, and bike riders. They clog the sidewalks and when the city mandates they use the roads, they cause accidents; we've had deaths in ATL as a result. Think about it - your'e walking along the sidewalk enjoying the day and a scooter comes up behind you traveling 15 miles an hour saying 'get out of the way.' You don't know if you should go right or left or just freeze. Times 1000.
10
Indeed, we have these "scooter problems" here in the Phoenix metro area, and to illustrate the danger to, say, disabled persons--particularly, the visually disabled--you may want to check out Marieke Davis' cartoon feature in LivAbility Magazine: http://ability360.org/livability/art-livability/life-is-blurry-comic-strip-number-25/ Marieke is a "visually impaired visual artist" with half her field of vision in both eyes (hemi-anopsia), a consequence of three surgeries for recurrent brain tumors since age ten. And--oh, yeah--she just happens to be my daughter. :)
3
Soon there’ll be issues of texting while scootering, too. Public safety should outweigh transportation novelty.
1
Chicago just finished its pilot program and everyone who walks, bikes, or drives can finally breath a sigh of relief. They are a nightmare. Currently public comment has been overwhelming against them .
5
Just a bad idea to allow these scooters in every city that was no design to handle them.
These are rented by young kids and adults who don't care how they ride them and this is the cities FAULT, for not setting and enforcing them.
So now any business can just drop off a product to sell on the street with no Business license or any insurance ( who pays when their is an accident?
These things needed to be Banned in every city as un-safe
Really are we telling a kid who rides a bike he has to wear a helmet or get a ticket, but NO safety gear required to ride these, just more stupidity from big tech and our govt who only see how to make a dollar, no common sense with rules and safety first always behind the game.
4
Hoboken is famously "The Mile Square City." Couldn't young people just walk to and from their destinations?
This is tribalism on steroids. The level of social insecurity is astonishing. They're sheep to the slaughter while venture caps are laughing all the way to the bank.
5
@Taz Depending on where you live in Hoboken, getting to public transportation (PATH, ferry) could be a 20 minute walk. A scooter can take 5-7 mins.
There's absolutely nothing tribalist about it. I see young people, I see adult men in suits, I see middle-aged ladies like myself all on the scooters.
All the hand-wringing is really over-the-top. Very white (upper-middle class) people's problem.
3
Drunk scootering vs drunk driving. Which is worse?
What we desperately need: more protected bicycle lanes and enforcement of traffic laws (speeding and red lights).
2
I’ve visited Dallas Texas recently. They have the electric scooters there and people I spoke to were not happy with them, that they’re scattered everywhere. People use them & just drop them in the middle of the sidewalks, business
doorways & street corners. They would be a hazard in NYC.
3
"But not all of the riders obey the rules."
I am shocked, shocked.
4
Have these people not heard about bikes?
1
I imagine that business is good for the orthopedic surgeons in Hoboken.
5
Convenient for the riders, inconvenient for everyone else. As Lana Del Rey put it, it’s so-what culture. I’m conveniencing myself and inconveniencing you. So what?
4
Austin -- my nearby city -- is a very person-friendly place. And the scooters are increasing. But dusk and later in the evening -- as a rare driver at that time, as an older guy I go nuts watching for them as they can be all over the place! All cities are different -- but the few I've visited seem to be ripe for increasing problems.
If the bike lanes were their lane, great, but that's typically not the case. Even apart from loaded scooterers -- I fear we're going to see more and more accidents.
The problem ultimately is systemic -- we've burdened cities with autos, not effective city and suburban transit. Shame of us -- and woe are the human beings to be sacrificed in accidents.
5
I would love to see the same tone, the same article, but instead of scooters, about automobiles.
1
Wait until you hear about cars...
2
Wow, where to begin? I do live in Hoboken and I do use the scooters, mostly when I'm in a rush or too tired to walk.
But first the question of whether the scooters are inexpensive is relative. One day my ride to the PATH terminal might be $3 the next it's $4.50. The bus is $2.85 and the city's shuttles are free.
Also the by the minute pricing discourages safe riding: If I have to stop at every stop sign and and wait one minute at every red light I've just adding $1 to my ride.
Then there is the stupidity factor. Adults running red lights at rush hour. Teens riding three to a scooter. The city government that believes two enforcement officers can control it. And of course the weekend day drinking football fans that take the scooters for victory laps.
Then there are the pedestrians, the headphones, the distracted drivers, the inconvenient one way streets and the limited amount of pavement.
Everyone loves riding the scooters. Including idiots. And this is why we can't have anything nice.
13
@JB Great point that the per minute pricing encourages unsafe riding.
2
LOL - good luck with that!
Good luck keeping riders off the sidewalks, keeping empty scooters upright, policing it at alllllll.
how these companies have been allowed to set up camp on public sidewalks, red zones and impacted private property is just crazy.
these scooters are for people 18-45, just as the bike lanes are. Maybe work on getting strollers into the subways first? San Diego is being sued - and people are also getting quite injured.
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/04/698768297/disability-rights-group-sues-san-diego-over-scooters-on-sidewalks
1
A portion of any population of any domicile are going to be clods, drunks, those who care for themselves and no one else. Why should scooters be any different?
That said -
I just returned from 2 weeks in Germany, staying at an Air Bnb. I got around Berlin by Vespa. My host said, "That's great! Now you can drink because being drunk on a Vespa is nossing!"
You're fighting an uphill battle, my friends.
Drunk scooter riders! Where are my pearls; I must clutch them!
now do cars
2
@Joe At least people who drive cars are given instruction and tested before they are allowed to get behind the wheel.
Drunk, probably texting and going 18 mph! What could happen?
1
We live a mile from Ohio State. We love Columbus and the university area. But as high school teachers and those who've raised our own young folk, the scooter tribe really needs to learn that multitasking is really just doing several things badly, often several very dumb things made even dumber by doing several at once, often on two wheels, motorized, while drinking, texting, frequently in tandem with a friend, going the wrong way on city streets, and being young. It's entertaining to see, but also dangerous as heck.
6
None of the people riding the scooters is wearing a helmet. Unbelievable.
3
These scooters are already on NYC streets along with every type of two wheeled and one wheel contraption that makes crossing the street a game of chicken. Bikes going every which way, rental mopeds and these things. There has to be a coverup of how many people are seriously injured from riding all these ridiculous things and hit from them.
1
There’s so many privately owned scooters in Manhattan already. I think these things are ultimately good, but I have zero faith in the NYPDs willingness to police their usage, seeing how blasé they are towards traffic laws in general.
1
These scooters are aggressive bikes on steroids.
The high injury rate to passersby and riders mandates their
control. The only ones winning are the trauma surgeons.
1
Here in Denver these things are a plague. Careless and clueless riders ride wherever they please, sidewalks, walking trails, traffic lanes, without a thought to pedestrians or anyone else. They are banned from sidewalks here, but there is no enforcement. And as noted in the article, they are left everywhere, with no regard for anyone else. Whoever thought two-wheeled vehicles capable of 15 - 20 miles an hour with no apparent governance was a good idea wasn't thinking very clearly. Then again, once revenue is introduced into the equation, rational thought tends to go out the window.
6
Scooters are all over the downtown area of my big city (I'm no longer in PA).
Several times I have almost been run over as a pedestrian on the sidewalk, tripped over them as they lay scattered on the sidewalk, almost hit one with my car when he darted into traffic.
Let's get rid of these scooters and start walking again, shall we.
It worked in the recent past, and we need the exercise.
Or am I missing something here?
1
I just came back from Lisbon, where there are maybe a dozen scooter operators that have scooters in the city. While Lisbon is amazing, the scooters were such a blight. Unused scooters were strewn haphazardly all over the sidewalks. It made the sidewalks look and feel very messy, and you constantly had to walk around them. NYC sidewalks are already crowded with pedestrians, bikes, parking kiosks and piles of garbage—these large, cumbersome scooters that can be left anywhere will only make it worse. I would really only be in favor of their arrival if they were required to be docked in designated areas like CitiBikes.
4
As a resident of Hoboken, I absolutely detest these scooters. They're left haphazardly on sidewalks (I can't imagine how disruptive this is for people with limited mobility), are frequently ridden on sidewalks and the wrong way down one way streets, and late at night when people are leaving the bars, are frequently and loudly chirping when drunks can't find the scooters they're trying to ride.
3
At least a drunk on a scooter is less dangerous than a drunk in a car.
But they don't belong on sidewalks with pedestrians, and they don't really belong on the busier streets with cars and trucks, either. It is precisely the same as with bicycles. All city dwellers should want more biking and scooting instead of more driving (drunk or not), but it needs proper dedicated lanes keeping the different speeds and masses apart.
4
@Erik Rensberger
"But they don't belong on sidewalks with pedestrians, and they don't really belong on the busier streets with cars and trucks"
Then they don't belong in New York City, do they?
And your comment about being safer as a drunk on a scooter than as in a car is like saying you're safer using a chain saw than swinging an ax while drunk.
1
I own an eScooter in Manhattan and ride it daily. I've also commuted by bike, often. As long as it is ridden in the bike lane (as it always should be), the scooter is unequivocally less dangerous to pedestrians and riders than a bike. They can't go as a fast as a bike, they impact with less force (they're lighter), and for riders are only a couple of inches from the ground, instead of being a couple of feet.
The fear mongering that continues to surround the discussion of eScooters is incredible. 500k trips have been taken in Hoboken, improving quality of life for 30k+ people. The quips in this article are minimal at best. How many people were injured by bikes in this same 5 month period?
4
@btcarelli Do you not worry about potholes? I worry about such road imperfections and the tiny wheels on e-scooters, even if I don't ride one. While on my bike I take care to avoid potholes, but once in a great while I will fail to notice one and get jolted. In those instances I am specifically grateful for the large diameter wheels I am riding on. Then again, I see people riding skateboards around the city, trusting their lives to these luggage-sized wheels, not a care in the world. So what do I know.
1
@Golfhard
Hoboken's chewed up streets, especially the side streets, are a problem. The thing to do is fix those streets. Not punish those who use scooters - a type of low-impact transportation that is perfect for Hoboken.
So commuters get on 73 scooters and take them to dispersed end points. Then Lime sends vans combing all over town to pick up those scooters and bring them back to the station. How is that efficient transportation? It's not that different from having the van just shuttle people where they want to go.
In any case, the idea that trips on short-term scooters would self-network is not panning out. Very few places in the world might be able to do that without relying on fleets of vans to redeliver and redistribute the scooters.
7
A conventional pedal bicycle is superior in almost every way to a battery-powered kick scooter. Yes, the e-scooter supplies motor power so you don't have to use your legs. However we are talking about such a modest amount of power needed to pedal a bicycle at city speeds. Does every single instance of human effort need easing?
Everytime I see someone riding an e-scooter, I think of that kids' movie "Wall-E", which imagines the future human race as fat invalid blobs completely dependent on motorized wheelchairs.
6
There is little evidence that scooters reduce traffic or are an environmental benefit. It mostly appears they replace walking trips or are for lots of joy rides. The scooters don’t last very long and do become hazards for others. Like most things in cities they need regulations and enforcement, including a requirement that companies report data so that trips claims can be measured and impacts verifiable.
5
My son used to use a scooter to get home from work in the evening in Atlanta until they banned the use after 10pm.
I'm kind of surprised at the negative reaction. They are used all the time in DC. I don't like it when they are left in the middle of the sidewalk or other inconvenient places but on the whole it seems to be working and I see whole families of tourists using them. Did NYT talk to DC officials?
1
@OnlyinAmerica
Consider pedestrian-, traffic-density and other differences between New York and DC.
“Whole families of tourists using them” isn’t exactly a selling point to this New Yorker.
5
@NA I understand that difference but they used Hoboken and the comments seem to be from all over, mostly negative.
1
Scooters endanger pedestrians (and vehicles).
Escooters are not environmentally friendly.
Scooters also impact on bus transportation - a decline in bus ridership results in bus service cuts and is a serious problem for people who depend on buses.
7
@SLM This same safety argument could be made for bikes.
If people start using scooters as opposed to busses, that is a win for those riders. They are CHOOSING scooters. This is a luddite view to say the least.
I live in Hoboken and have never used the scooters, but don't mind them. There's absolutely no reason to have a car in Hoboken and I would much rather encourage bikes, scooters and walking. Hoboken has actually done a lot in recent years to improve pedestrian safety, but I do worry for the safety of those on scooters and bikes. We have narrow 19th century streets here and it seems very dangerous to me. I would like to see protected bike lanes or expanded sidewalks so that people can ride safely. Hoboken made a huge mistake in not including protected bike lanes in the recent Washington Street redesign.
5
@Anon - I live in Hoboken too and disagree that “there’s absolutely no reason to have a car”. Who are you to tell people who rely on cars for their business, who commute long distance or to transport their families to give up their cars? What about those who don’t have the physical ability to ride scooters or bikes? We do live in NJ and cars are needed outside of Hoboken. Too many scooter & bike riders ride recklessly and use sidewalks which endangers pedestrian safety. If we can’t have better enforcement the scooters should be reduced or banned. I’d rather see electronic trolley cars than hoards of free wheeling scooters clogging the streets and sidewalks. I’ve lived here for decades and think we’ve survived just fine without them and it’s just creating chaos in the streets now.
3
Years ago, before documents were sent digitally, bike messengers flooded Manhattan delivering documents back and forth from midtown to/from Wall Street. The bikes were like bees buzzing and weaving through traffic (if you stood on a corner during any workday, 5-6 bikes would pass you in a few minutes). They frequently hit pedestrians and caused injury and death (as heads hit the pavement). Not because they existed, but because they often ran lights and did not follow the pedestrian-car model of sharing the streets (ie lights, expectations of behavior etc.)
To compare scooters to bikes now is comparing apples to oranges. Compare scooters potential impact to pedestrians with statistics of when bike messengers flooded Manhattan. It’s not that the messengers were bad, they were essential (we called several every single day), but to understand and properly oversee scooters, it can helpful to look at a time when bikes were numerous and part of the traffic flow.
2
When you use a community asset, such as a shared scooter or bicycle, you tend to care less if it gets damaged, than if it were your own scooter or bike. As a result, they are used more carelessly, if not actually recklessly.
This is an unfortunate fact of human behavior. If you don't actually own it, and cannot be made responsible for it, you will abuse it.
3
Are scooters dangerous to pedestrians? We are presented with what is supposed to be a harrowing tale of a mother and child in a stroller struck by a scooter, but we soon learn that neither was seriously injured. They would likely be dead or have suffered devastating injuries had a car plowed into them. Shouldn’t cars be banned before we ban scooters?
Scooters are probably about as dangerous to pedestrians as bicycles, which is not very. In NYC a driver kills a pedestrian every couple of days, while a cyclist will kill a pedestrian every couple of years. Cars are massively more dangerous than bicycles (and likely scooters). Charging drunk car drivers and drunk cyclists/scooter drivers under the same law is not just wrong, it is cruel and unusual punishment.
Disturbed by the site of scooter being littered about? They take up a fraction of the outdoor space that we devoted to free or heavily subsidized private vehicle storage (i.e. parking).
11
@Michael G. Kaplan
Cars do not drive on sidewalks. Scooters can be and are often ridden on sidewalks, overtaking pedestrians before there’s time to react. A scooter moving at 18 miles an hour can and has caused serious bodily harm, even death, to its rider and whoever it hits in a collision.
1
@Michael G. Kaplan
So what you're arguing is that scooters are less awful than cars. A little less harmful to our environment, not as ugly in our outdoor spaces, and maybe half as deadly as automobiles, trucks, tanks and so on. Drunks can't kill you as easily with them. And, as an added benefit, they're not as disturbing to our "site." Thanks.
1
Electric scooters and bikes are already on the streets -- and sidewalks -- of Manhattan, unregulated and unpoliced, and a serious danger to pedestrians.
6
Lane splitting by motorcycle riders is perfectly legal here in California, I see no reason why it shouldn’t be for electric scooters as well. I’m all for them covering every square inch of the planet, all in the name of saving it.
2
As a Hoboken resident I do not mind the scooters since Hoboken is a nightmare city for cars whether driving or looking for parking. If you had to go from Hoboken Terminal to 10th street and had to choose between a scooter and car the scooter would take half the time and you would not have to worry about parking. The scooter companies and riders do need to follow city and state regulations though.
1
These scooters have been used in Baltimore city for over one year.They area danger to pedestrians , and the riders themselves. I have had one thrown over a wall into my patio. Riders typically don't wear helmets.I have witnessed children riding with parents on the same scooters. The riding while drunk is serious problem. they really don't help to ameliorate traffic congestion . They are a dangerous for those who ride them ,pedestrians and automobiles. It may be interesting to look at emergency room visits related to scooter accidents
9
I travel a lot for work and have ridden these scooters in Santa Monica, San Diego, Indianapolis, Kansas City, etc. They are a great way to get around and not unsafe if ridden sensibly. They also do a nice job of supplanting public transportation in areas where that infrastructure has been left to crumble. The NYC subways come to mind here.
What I find amusing is that rather than being concerned about the wild, out of control alcoholism that is evident on the public streets of Hoboken on any given weekend night, the focus is on how unsafe the scooters are. I guess the booze taxes make the further regulation of bars and liquor stores an untenable proposition. By all means, let's protect the drunks from hurting themselves by banning scooters, never mind how useful they might be for commuters.
6
My sister in San Jose was crossing the street when she was run into by one of these things. The collision was strong enough to knock her out of her WHEELCHAIR.
14
So...people are like shocked that drunks are on scooters? We accept drunk drivers(and about 10,000 drunk driving deaths a year) as normal life in America. Scooters, on their very face, are suicide machines with zero protection against behemoth cars and trucks.
However, it's all about freedom I guess. People accept the risks, just like with motorcycles - which I want no part of either. Regulation will evolve for sure. Is this a first where green technology is seen as a threat? Many people, my self included, see more of the quick finance, high tech scam involved as a turnoff.
3
In any case, these are all money-losing, venture capital unicorns. This will all be over in a year or two. (Not to dismiss all the valid concerns and annoyance we’ll have to deal with before their eventual failure.)
6
If you are interested in discouraging senior citizens from walking the streets, electric scooters are a good way of doing it.
27
Currently visiting San Francisco where the scooter craze is all in. These people scooter without helmets, which is great for those awaiting organ donation. Unfortunately, they also ride, at great speed, on the sidewalks. I’ve been nearly run down at least three times.
It’s bad enough trying to avoid delivery people barreling down the sidewalk with their eBikes. Now we’ll have to contend with the scooters. Walking in New York City should be a death defying feat. Seriously regulation needs to be in place and enforced before we allow companies to make mayhem of our walkways.
15
It would be nice to see data about lowered air pollution from cars, decreases in the use of Uber, Lyft, and cabs, and increased levels of unfit persons when electric scooters replace walking and other ways of transportation.
7
I've lived in a city at war, been held up at knife point and gun point and been mugged on the street twice, but I've never felt as unsafe as I do now living in a city with scooters everywhere. Bike riders tend to be experienced and skateboarders tend to be highly skilled, but I've watched people (mostly but not always young men) get on scooters for the first time in twenty years, high on weed, and immediately slam into someone. If your city doesn't have them yet - ban them! They are evil. Dangerous. Unnecessary. And if you city has them, do all you can to get them regulated.
39
This is an easy problem to fix.
These scooters are motorized vehicles, no different from a small motorcycle and should be controlled and regulated in exactly the same way.
Inspected, operator’s license, lights and the requirement to obey all traffic laws.
I’ve ridden motorcycles for over 30 years and would be first in line to support this. The fact that you can drive these things around close to 30 miles an hour without any restrictions is outrageous.
28
This is the reason to not allow these scooters: For a temporary 6 month rollout, Hoboken has already hired two full-time, union scooter violations-seeking policemen, and will hire a consultant to assess the viability of scooter use in Hoboken. That short term cost, including salary, benefits, fees and expenses, is at least $350,000. For a 6 month experiment.
I live part time in a small city with two universities, lots of restaurants, small streets and lots of cars. The risk to parents, children, the elderly, any pedestrians, and any drivers is very high. Crashes can be deadly, and the trauma caused by any misses or near misses can last a lifetime.
Besides the physical and human emotional cost, add health care costs, court costs, emergency services burdens and drunk scootering court costs to process the lawbreakers and accident victims. The scooters are a financial and safety burden on a small city. They cannot possibly be effectively policed with two officers. The scooters should be removed. Do the math.
20
Scooters haven't been as destructive as I first expected. The initial nuisance settled down into a fairly healthy rhythm. I do wish there were more enforcement though. The commuter paths in particular need dedicated scooter/bike lanes and the cops need to ticket anyone not using them. That's just common sense. It hasn't happened yet.
I'm also amazed by how reckless some riders seem. Riding an electric scooter is something like riding a skinny snowboard with no bindings down a concrete hill in various states of decay. What could go wrong? Yet you find people like the guy in this picture all the time. No helmet, office clothing, messenger bag on one shoulder just to throw everything off balance. What are these people thinking?
Although, I will admit, it's always funny to see someone face plant a scooter. "Are you okay? Yes? Okay, great. Because that was hilarious." I suspect most incidents involve alcohol on some level but I don't know. These accidents sometimes happen mighty early in the day.
7
I am so sorry NYC. Here in Nashville, one recent Mayoral Candidate's entire platform was banning scooters. The don't have lights and are impossible to see at night, they frequently are on the side walk - forcing pedestrians to make way, users don't follow the rules of the rd - and the one fatality we had here was a drunk person running a red light - but my greatest pet peeve - is that with great frequency- they block handicap accessible sidewalk ramps, esp. near hospitals. They are an unwelcome addition here to our already congested streets.
34
Please refer to the picture showing three riders. Are any of them wearing helmets? Nope...and that's the case everywhere. If you are required to to wear head protection when you ride a motorcycle, why not a scooter? They are certainly no less dangerous and, perhaps, more so.
I live close to Portland, Oregon, a city famous (or for its bicycle culture. Scooters are a recent arrival. Every day you see twenty somethings riding about town not only without helmets, but wearing ear pods so they can listen to their favorite music as they go about their business. They also ride anywhere they please. Interestingly enough, in a recent clean-up effort more than 50 scooters were found on the bottom of the Willamette River where they had been thrown when their riders were finished using them. Just one more downside of an emerging culture that cries out for additional regulation.
12
@TyroneShoelaces I would think that the scooters were tossed in the river by citizens that were fed up by all the scooters abandoned on the sidewalk. I have noticed that walking in cities with scooters is like walking through a minefield.
11
Big difference in riding skills/ care level of owner operators vs newbies who jump on rentals with $1 and an app.
As a user, I consciously act as an ambassador for PEV's: always completely respectful of traffic laws and pedestrians, who will ultimately rule on the fate of clean PEV's. I would welcome more traffic enforcement in NYC, especially of the one way street rule.
NYC's possible approach, to ban the littering of sidewalks with rentals while condoning personal ownership and use by responsible individuals is, for once, reasonable.
My fear is that corporate greed may induce problems the cause unfamiliar people to throw the baby out with the bath water.
1
Cleveland may be the only city in which e-scooters make sense, for two reasons.
First, downtown Cleveland is basically devoid of car traffic, so the risk of death-by-car is greatly reduced.
And second, the bikes stop working at 7pm, so drunk post-bar joy riding is largely avoided.
4
@RDA huh? There is certainly downtown traffic here, especially weekday rush hour. Not like NYC, of course. But not “devoid.”
How about the motorized food delivery bicycles speeding along on sidewalks, going the wrong way on one way streets and one way bicycle lanes, and running red lights?
8
Those are my favorite....silent marauders. Looking both ways before crossing a one way is the new norm.
5
I know of two accidents involving these scooters in which the rider was severely hurt. One, a healthy young man in his thirties, is still recovering three months later and will feel the injuries the rest of his life. The other wiped out in rush hour traffic in downtown Seattle, coming down a very steep hill. He was taken away in an ambulance.
4
Allowing electric scooters in NYC is an absolutely terrible idea (even worse than allowing unregistered ebikes). Scooters may reduce vehicle density in other cities, but they won’t have any effect in New York. (I’m trying to imagine the profile of the New Yorker who would opt for an e-scooter over his or her car or truck). The city should figure out the reasons for the spike in bicycle-related deaths in 2019 and come up with a plan to address that problem. Until that’s done, it makes no sense to put these things on the road ... and sidewalks, and in the parks.
19
I was in Indianapolis last August and they were ridden everywhere. Crosswalks, sidewalks, never yielding, never rode on in the street, only the sidewalks. You need to WALK in a crosswalk. Not run, jog or ride a scooter at 20 MPH. It was the first time I'd seen them. Even slow turning cars can't react in time. And newsflash: Turning cars do not have to stop for people who are still on the sidewalk.
I spoke to three IPD officers who said riding on the sidewalk was a "$20 fine, but not a high priority, kind of like a bike running a red light in NYC."
NYC DOT Section 1151:
"No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impractical for the driver to yield."
Anything that's motorized must be licensed, registered and insured. They must have big numbers on them so we can report reckless operators and so cameras can catch them. They must wear helmets, which NPR reported this morning may actually reduce the number of these operators, which is just fine with me.
15
I've been to Hoboken on weekend nights, and Hoboken might have more of a drinking and public drunkenness problem than a scooter problem. I've seen what happens there during St Patrick's Day celebrations, it's a strong indication of the root of the problem is here.
7
Simply put, they cannot introduce new items like this without proper enforcement.
People don't follow the rules. They run through lights, skip up on sidewalks, scoot while drunk and leave the units wherever they feel like it.
And then the NON-users just pick them up and throw them in various places.
You can't just bring in something that changes the flow this much without making sure you have the means in place to control it. Sure as anything, the people won't do it.
34
@Ninjahedge Better enforcement (which is often just more) is usually the answer and one every one agrees on- but the money required to fund more people or additional time to do the enforcing, is rarely available.
This is going to turn out to be the same kind of nightmare as early-days Uber. The companies will make mouth noises about responsibility, but basically they only care about selling rides; they don't care if the user is drunk, underage, irresponsible, riding double, whatever. (I see all these behaviors regularly in my own neighborhood.) Also, people (including reporters) tend to overlook this, but scooters don't magically disappear, recharge, and reappear. They have to be collected, and in the case of Lime that's largely done by “independent contractors” driving wheezy old minivans or SUVs and paid on a piecework basis — so they're incentivized for trespassing, property damage, etc. (Spin, the other scooter company in my town, uses actual employees driving company-owned vehicles, which seems better to me.) The appeal to users is responsibility-free transportation, so basically there's no accountability built anywhere into the system — unless governments step up and insist on it.
18
If virtually all the Hoboken commuters live within 1.5 miles of the terminal why don’t they walk home?
82
@ach
A person can walk between the most distant points in Hoboken within 25 minutes. There are 3 NJ Transit bus lines with frequent service for $1.50 and a few free jitneys that Hoboken runs. Also, there is a bike-sharing system in place. I hope the scooters are taken away.
16
@ach I used to walk two miles to work which, at a fairly speedy pace, took me about forty minutes. It was great exercise but if I was going to do something like that again I'd love to have an e-scooter. I could easily shave half of that time off my commute.
Given the choice between a 25 minute walk or a five minute scooter ride the choice should be obvious.
4
@ach I agree. The majority of people using scooters are under the age of 40. You have the strength and agility to walk, so do it! It comes down to laziness. Millennials want instant/fast everything. I'm in my 40's and have been walking as my commute for 20 years and have no complaints. Putting other lives at risk (including your own) to save yourself 10 minutes is indicative of this fast and easy millennial culture.
3
After watching an extensive e-scooter share system in operation here in Santa Monica CA for more than a year, I've concluded that the system can work safely and conveniently for all -- but only if scooter-riders are careful, and obey all the rules and regulations. The question is whether adequate resources exist to ENFORCE those rules and regulations. Because without enforcement, chaos reigns. City of Santa Monica and its police department, and the scooter companies, have made good faith efforts to enforce the rules and educate the scooter-riding public. But the jury is still out as to whether it's enough, or will ever be enough.
7
@Gary E As a fellow Santa Monican, I see the "scooties" as a bit more dangerous and intimidating than you do, although I believe scooters could serve a public purpose if, as you say, the rules were enforced....
Before introducing a dangerous form of transportation to NYC, there needs to be enforcement of existing, but flouted, traffic rules for bicycles and scooters. And NO electrified scooter, or scooter ridden by an adult (which often travel, silently from behind, at significant speed) should be permitted to be on the sidewalk. It's ironic that these scooter riders on the sidewalk usually have a helmet on, yet the pedestrians, whom they put at significant risk, are without any protection - or warning of their approach from behind. So if they collide with me, they're okay, but I'm toast.
39
Electric bike (especially for deliveries) are already a problem, with many used on sidewalks or ridden against the traffic on streets. On one-way streets I know by habit what direction to expect cars & trucks, but now bikes speed from the opposite way! Now add electric scooters! And who will tell them sideways are for pedestrians, not wheeled vehicles! Police never seem to bother bike riders and I can't imagine they will chase scooters.
30
I commute daily on a bike in Arizona, but also did so for many years in NYC. I’m used to being on the fringe with motorists and prefer alternative methods of transportation. The scooters are a mess in arizona. They are discarded all over the place. I often see them covered in mud after being dredged from a canal. People discard them in the middle of multi use paths, in streets, in bike lanes, pretty much everywhere. I had to warn my father visiting recently to watch out for discarded scooters on our rides as he has never been around them. Then there are the riders themselves violating more rules than the typical cyclist...
51
@Mister Bee in Paris, rental bikes and scooters need to be dredged from the Seine regularly. Sad.
2
@Hope
Better in the Seine than en scene.
Skateboards are a major problem in the streets of New York. Motorized scooters are going to be a nightmare and cause many injuries. Darting in and out of traffic is going to be a nightmare for drivers.
25
@Steven McCain - Cars are THE major problem in the streets of NY.
2
Scooters and Bicycles should have to follow the exact same rules as motorists. I would doubt they reduce traffic, since they are used mostly by young folks who would either walk or take public transport as an alternative. Here in Boston, the City allows Scooters and Bicycles free reign to ride on sidewalks, parks, ignore traffic lights and pedestrians. We are supposed to thank them for "saving the planet". City Governments should be tough on both Scooter and Cycle riders.
42
I am all for safe vehicle use, no matter what the vehicle, but expecting any vehicle other than a car to follow the same rules of the road as cars while they have the inability to maintain the same speeds or withstand the same impacts as a car is ridiculous. Even something as simple as hitting a pothole or making a left turn can have greater chance of a deadly outcome on a bicycle or a scooter than in an automobile. Sometimes breaking the rules of the road on a bicycle can be the advantage that a cyclist needs to avoid a dangerous situation.
9
@Block Doubt Where to start? Bicycles in NYC? There are bike lanes but they don't inhibit those utilizing them from running red lights, thereby threatening pedestrians legally crossing the street. They also ride the wrong way on our numerous one way streets. Central Park has signs everywhere that bicyclists are to dismount on footpaths. Ha!
Electric scooters in NYC? Maybe those for rent are banned. But what about those privately owned? One recently wizzed past me on the sidewalk and zipped into the open doorway of the Trader Joe's on Third Ave. At the entry angle he could not see if who was just inside the doorway.
As a pedestrian, I feel, at least in my neighborhood, safest with my fellow walkers and (gasp!) motorized vehicles.
15
@Block Doubt
There is nothing ridiculous about expecting bicyclists, scooter riders and skateboarders to obey red lights, stop signs, and traffic signs.
Time after time one will see one of these riders come to an intersection and blow right through. Usually they are decked out in full safety gear, but ignore everything else about being safe in traffic.
Every vehicle on the road needs to follow the same rules. And in a collision with a car, the bicycle, scooter or skateboard will always fare the worse. The auto outweighs them.
23