Sorry, on this issue, homophobia is much larger than a black issue.
A large swath of America including large numbers of whites are homophobic. A few number of whites have even killed gay me. It is not just a black issue.
A large number of liberal whites cannot understand the religious right and see them as primitive thinking and certainly lacking in enlightenment and read the Bible only to prove their point. Have no understanding for example of the Judgement Gospel.
I think on this issue you are trying to make it a racial incident (racism) when it isn't.
8
I don't think Mr. Buttigieg has a problem with black homophobia specifically, but it's delusional to think that he doesn't have a problem with homophobia generally. The older generation of Americans is still rather homophobic, across all ethnicities, and homophobic people are going to have a problem with supporting a gay person for president.
I would think homophobia by black people is actually the least of Mr. Buttigieg's problems, because not many black people are going to vote for Trump instead. But there are definitely homophobic white people who, given the choice between Mr. Buttigieg and Trump, would go over to Trump, believing that while Trump is a lying, cowardly, adulterous, incompetent, treasonous jerk, at least he isn't gay.
In any case, the overwhelming problem for Mr. Buttigieg is not homophobia, but that he is merely a mayor of a small city, very young and inexperienced. I think he's a great man, highly intelligent and competent, but I wouldn't support him for president until he's done a term or two as governor or senator.
16
"The tribal nature of gay culture." I don't know that using phrases like that helps make your point.
31
Charles,
Why was there such a low turnout of African American voters in Mississippi last Tuesday ? You are focusing on a speck ( alleged homophobia) but you’ve got a bigger problem that you are ignoring !
15
I’m guessing that Charles doesn’t like that his own homophobia is being called out.
18
hold up. I’m part black and there is clearly deeply ingrained homophobia in the black community. just see the response to lil nas coming out as a wide spread example.
24
"They are those who see black people as a blight on our big cities, pathologically prone to violence and in need of pity and crumbs they cast about and call philanthropy."
statistically, is any of this true?
12
Wait...you’re attacking JAMES CLYBURN for saying what he knows?
FYI, fella: our hope is in confronting our mistakes and foolishnesses openly, not in wishing them into the cornfield. It’s foolish to pretend that we’re not all people, warts and all.
Sorry, but really lousy column. No, it’s NOT always somebody else’s fault.
28
Identity politics in America is something I may never understand nor appreciate.
One example is the most excellent Mr Obama who is always called America's first black president. Is he not mixed race? If his mother was white, well, perhaps she was a ghastly, abusive person who was not kind to him growing up, so he self identifies as only being black.
Most likely there are bigots of every flavour in America's bubbling melting pot. America is not unique in either its homophobia nor its race-baiting.
Off to listen to 'Everyday People' by Sly and the Family Stone. I find there is a respectful and joyful sanity in the lyrics.
6
Thank you!
"I have never been blind to this — the people who see black religiosity as an indicator of primitive thinking and lack of enlightenment."
Eh...dunno who these "people" are in the U.S....with its large demographic of White "religiosity," and where a tiny 3% identify as "atheist"...
...Kindly provide evidence that such an anti-black-religious bias - a bias specifically making African Americans, and not whites, the object of irreligionist disrespect - is prevalent?
11
Ummm, how can we excuse lack of support for Mayor Pete from the black community, I got it, blame homophobia! ( Never mind his record as mayor and any semblance of a policy geared to the specific needs of blacks.)
8
This is a very strange column. I guess it is horribly racist to state the mere fact that blacks tend to be significantly more homophobic than whites (which is actually supported by evidence), but it is perfectly OK to accuse white gay men of racism and "black fetishism." I realize that when a group gets oppressed and marginalized for centuries, their members can have a difficult time acknowledging that not all problems plaguing their community can be explained by their victimhood. So it is with homophobia and black on black violence. Blacks constitute 12% of the US population and commit more than 50% of homicides. That does not make my lovely black neighbors a blight, but it does point at a problem that cannot be explained away with racism.
26
"Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is." Then condemn it before you offer context. Otherwise, it sounds like you are defending prejudice.
28
Mr. Blow, I relish every word you write and absolutely look to you for your thoughtful expression of my own disgust of this president and his sycophants. But, for the life of me, I can’t understand why you felt it necessary to underscore your article with an explanation of your sexuality and religious status. So, instead of reading your article with complete objectivity it was hard to separate your opinions from your biases. Where’s the mystery these days and why does everyone feel they have to live with a defining label? I was shocked you felt your admission was necessary to validate your heartfelt insight.
12
Confusing read. Blow admits homophobia in the black community is higher than others, but then he calls it a trope. I don't see how it can be insulting to suggest the homophobia Blow admits exists may play a role in why Pete gets less support among blacks when there are a lot of alternative hetero candidates to choose from.
21
Church going black folk may have unconscious bias toward homosexuality. Get real. Almost everybody does. Is it worse than misogyny, anti-semitism or disrespect for very short men when the Undecideds and iffy turn out voters imagine a president?
Maybe you can calls these tropes, but don’t we have to accept that a crucial motive for voting isn’t policy.
10
Love Charles and I certainly hate to argue with him over this topic, but...
I think the problem is not that "Black people hate homosexuals". Some do. Some white people do, too. I don't know how the numbers skew but anecdotally, the loudest homophobic comments of the last few years have been from black men. But that might be just a few bad apples.
I think the real problem, something I've been harping on for a bit and I think Mr Blow would agree with, is the "Black vote" is viewed far too monolithically. I never see the black vote broken down by education, income, religion, etc. Its just "the black vote".
Maybe we can do better?
13
Charles Blow's column is a useful contribution to the dialogue about race. If I understand correctly, he believes that the "black homophobia" trope, is one of the ways that Americans and the American media hide racist attitudes and views about black people under the cover of otherwise progressive opinions. I think he's correct.
As a life-long black person, I can personally vouch that I am tired of the white fantasy of the black monolith, and America's continuing penchant for lynching blacks -- figurative or otherwise. Even if every black person in America were a dyed in the wool homophobe, there is not a single state in the US where the black population is a majority of the voting populace -- so Pete's problems lie elsewhere, and with white folks. Successful candidates need to court all the voters, not just the fair-skinned, like-minded, and deep-pocketed ones.
5
Pete B. speaks very well and that's a lot in this race. He sounds sensible and fair. His history at South Bend, Ind. proves otherwise. He fired the African American chief of police for conducting an operation to expose racist conduct within the police dept. He caved under political pressure. This is all too familiar in our American history. I am a "white" woman and it is clear to me if you don't use your power to defend and have the backs of those people who have been abused and stop their abusers you are not ready to lead or be trusted. Have things changed in South Bend? What happened to the chief of police that was fired? What are the living conditions like for African Americans in South Bend?
9
It ain't Buttigieg's problem. Re-elect President Trump and you'll know whose problem it is.
3
Good points, Mr. Blow. Now someone should call out PB’s offensive age discrimination against people older than he, barely cloaked in his “generational change” message. He’s not getting much traction with African Americans because they see through his slick and smug presentation of himself.
6
So Mr Blow starts this article by saying that perceived African-American homophobia is:
"secretly nursed and insidiously whispered by white liberals with contempt for the very black people they court and need."
What possible evidence is there to pin such stereotyping on white people as a whole? Buttigieg himself said he doesn't think it's true that African-Americans are more homophobic than other groups. The only politician who has given that idea support is an African-American congressman! And yet Mr Blow somehow feels the need to make the white race as a whole to blame.
This is an article about commentary on Mr Buttigieg's campaign, and Mr Blow didn't even include Buttigieg's own remarks. Why? Because they provide nuance and complexity that would undermine this self-serving and biased article.
13
The Gay Revolution notched up some great victories and it has ushered in the ear of 'to be gay is to be normal as heterosexual'. Everyone wants to move on except of course the Corporate Democrats who keep pushing people like Buttigeg's sexuality into our faces rather than his resume or what he is going to do and how he is going to do it. The Times continues this trend by holding the hats of coats of its pundits who mount the stage to keep singing this 'gay gay gay' tune. The reason Buttigeg will never amount to anything is because he is a Corporate Democrat which is evinced by his mounting corporate dollars coming from Wall Street in particular. It is time to leave behind the victorious gay revolution and start a new income inequality revolution. Buttigeg obviously cares not a whit about that since he comes from Wall Street himself.
4
"Black people in general are more religious than other racial groups." The Christian Bible, in Leviticus, imposes the death penalty on homosexuals. If I were black and gay, I think I would choose another more tolerant religion.
3
Not so fast Mr. Blow. You have been the head cheerleader for the "We got him THIS TIME" bandwagon that is opposed to Trump. The jeering mob (not that many, actually) that was jubilantly trotting behind you are now drifting and nonplussed. The word "Trump" does not even appear in your column. Why have you, without explanation, suddenly ceased your "Impeach Trump" drumbeat and picked up a new cause?
Methinks that you have examined the evidence, realized its tenuous nature, and have moved on to matters you now find more interesting.
4
you really can't have it both ways: at once you ask "is there homophobia in the black community? yes there is"
and then end with "let's stop this trope once and for all"
but not once do you mention that the prevelance of HIV in the black community is way higher than others. why? well, homophobia, of course. this is well known, especially by you.
why, exactly, can't blacks be homophobic? and for the record, this possibility is completely independent of how white democrats feel about black voters in general, or specifically; they are not related in the first instance.
how about we stop the trope that anything that can be perceived as based on racism must, and absolutely is, racist in origin.
perhaps blacks, by the numbers, are more homophobic than whites. how about we just call this a fact since it's both well-known and proven?
4
Blaming Mayor Pete's problems on black homophobia is insidious and shameful. He has lost black votes because of his equivocations in the heat of all too familiar police murder of a black person, Eric Logan.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/27/pete-buttigieg-police-shooting-south-bend-indiana
That said, he has admitted his glaring mistakes, and vows to do better. Still black voters have every right to doubt Mayor Pete, and it has nothing to do with homophobia. Simply put, he has to earn trust going forward.
6
It seems to me, that Buttigieg’s real problem is not homophobia among the African American voters, but rather that, while he is by any definition, a moderate , he is not Joe Biden i.e. Nancy Pelosi and the party leadership’s anointed “moderate”. Is Charles Blow not reminded of how the “has problems attracting votes in the Black community” slur was applied to Bernie Sander’s in the 2016 primary, backed up by sainted Black Caucus leaders like James Clyburn and John Lewis? Does Blow not notice that the same misguided slander has already been against Sanders again and also Elizabeth Warren in the current campaign?
4
I'd say his somewhat weak support from black folks is primarily caused by a lack of familiarity. He can fix that as the campaign moves on.
Black people understand what Trump represents. They know all too well the threat white supremacy poses to anyone darker than a piece of manilla paper. No way they would stay home and let Trump get reelected.
But black homophobia does exist. Due to centuries of oppression, hyper masculinity is a component of black culture. For example.
According to the word police, it is improper to refer to a seven year old black male as a "boy". He is a "young man". The excuse given is that the word "boy" is a derogatory slavery word. But calling a seven year old a young man robs him of his childhood. That is an example of hyper masculinity. He is a little boy and should be treated as such.
Now I shouldn't have to tell you, Mr.Blow, about the pressures to be tough in tough inner city neighborhoods. I grew up in one. I felt the fear. Not like in today's Chicago as I only knew three people that got shot dead. This is more hyper masculinity.
Being gay is often associated with femininity. That can get one beat up really fast. Being a black trans woman can get you killed.
Your argument is based upon a rejection of primitive religiosity. You may be correct. But you have not addressed hyper masculinity which is where the bulk of any black homophobia lies.
6
This is what identity politics leads to--homophobia is fine when people of one skin color are the homphobes because they vote for Democrats. This is sickening.
8
It's a ridiculous and destructive trope that demeans those who say it. I read comments from people here who toss this drivel out as if it were true. Those folks sound like Fox news, all know-it-all gossip and assumptions. Hey from the #PittsburghHillDistrict
Here is why. The real reason.
Documents: Police Used Buttigieg Donors to Get Him to Fire Black Chief - By: Jonathan LarsenSep 16, 2019
Buttigieg's Police Issues Go Beyond Secret Tapes - By: Jonathan LarsenApr 21, 2019
Secret Tapes Reportedly Suggest Pete Buttigieg Fired South Bend’s Black Police Chief Due To Donor Pressure
Secret Tapes Reportedly Suggest Pete Buttigieg Fired South Bend’s Black Police Chief Due To Donor Pressure
Pete Buttigieg Fired South Bend’s Black Police Chief. It Still Stings. - By Trip Gabriel and Alexander Burns
4
Mr. Blow: Your columns on race swing between highs and lows. This is a low. You sound like Rick Mulvaney. The headline is "Stop Blaming Black Homophobia for Buttigieg’s Problems". Then you say "Is [homophobia] higher in the black community than in other communities? It is. " Then you make a tortured argument that the two statements are somehow consistent.
Stop seeing everything through a race lens! As you say, Black Americans are disproportionately poor, religious and uneducated. They therefore exhibit disproportionately characteristics of poor, religious and uneducated people, some of which are admirable (hardworking, decent) and others of which aren't (homophobic). However, unlike other such groups, Black Americans vote overwhelming Democratic, leading to Buttigieg's problem. He badly needs the support of a cohort that is disproportionately homophobic, through no fault of the cohort's ethnicity nor anyone else.
The only thing 'Black' here is the near-unanimous Democratic voting pattern and its critical role in any successful Democratic presidential bid.
Start there and your column will make a lot more sense.
7
"It is in the tribal nature of gay culture that white men still center their white maleness as privileged..."
What does this even mean? Probably that there are segments of population that fear and loathe heterosexual white men simply for being white. heterosexual. males. The fear is, mostly in the eyes of the beholder, and unfortunately it is obvious that these beholders colonized the Op-Ed pages at the NYT.
6
More homophobia from a black man who writes that he’s bisexual, as if his being bisexual allows him license to trash a very bright, very talented, very promising young man.
The truth of the matter is that many black religious leaders are homophobic. That’s not a racist trope, that’s an absolute fact.
Ask any gay black man what being gay and black is like for them in a Jesus-based society. True, not all blacks are homophobic, but most strongly religious blacks are.
Furthermore, what problem does Pete Buttigieg have? Is being #4 in a ten person race really a problem? When the time comes, if Buttigieg is on the ballot, I will vote for him, his prejudiced opposition not withstanding.
7
Many religious bodies, including my own Catholic Church, have homophobic elements that continue to retard full understanding and acceptance of sexual minorities. This "failure" crosses all color and ethnic lines and cannot be attributed solely or even partially to any one particular racial or ethnic group.
This is the claim under discussion: Black homophobia is hurting Buttigieg's chances for the nomination. Charles Blow's outrage that anyone would make that claim, given the prevalence of racism in America, does nothing to discredit the possible truth of that claim.
7
What a bunch of nonsense this issue has become. I would not be surprised if the orange guy's repubs are creating this non-issue.
2
It's an issue of religion. Religion is constantly used as a tool of oppression. It was used to support slavery, it's used to keep women oppressed, it's used to keep queer folk oppressed. A larger percentage of African-Americans call themselves Christian than white folk call themselves Christian. Therein lies the rub.
8
“It is tiresome and disappointing to constantly have to defend yourself... from those who feign friendship but are secretly hostile to you.”
Speaking as a white liberal, Mr. Blow. I agree with you. Your condescending comments about white liberals whispering insidiously are ugly, based on negative stereotypes, and don’t describe accurately anyone I know.
The “white liberals” I know are sincere people who do not have the attitudes you describe. It is indeed tiresome and disappointing to have to defend ourselves from attacks like this one.
9
It would be nice of ALL oppressed people found common ground, rather than fighting each other and criticizing each other. Because when that happens the oppressors, racists and bigots win!
Other than that, I'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole!
1
It isn’t black homophobia. It’s the “innerrant” interpretation of scripture of the the evangelicals. A solid voting block who can be counted on to get to the polls. It is unlikely that they will countenance a married gay couple in the White House.
N. Gauster
2
Sorry Charles, but just because you think something should not be true does not mean that it isn't. Blacks will not be showing up in force anytime soon to support a homosexual candidate. Accept it and move on.
4
This feels like an anti black, racist article. Sure there are some African Americans who are religious and relatively conservative. Many are not. Some are homophobic. Others are not. That’s true of whites and Asians and South Americans and men and women and gays and straights. Why does Mr Blow racialize it?
Democrats know they are going to lose some votes of conservative or religious voters based on their stance on gay rights and abortion. This has nothing to do with race
My African American friends can hold more than one thought in their minds when they decide how to vote. They can be deeply religious and support the Constitution. They can support a child who has an abortion after race. No different from my white or Asian friends. Many are deeply conservative on fiscal issues but vote democrat Because they see the policies of the Republican Party as deeply racist. I agree with them
If Butte... wants more centrist and conservative voters to vote for him he needs to promise them policies that appeal to their views. Take race out of it. He has no more right to “black votes” than white votes, whatever that means anyway. Earn them. Or lose them and face the fate of Clinton and Kerry and Gore.
Come on Mr Blow!
During the struggle for marriage equality the top black religious leaders, Jackson, Sharpton, etc, were leading the charge against it. That's what sticks in my craw. Actions speak louder than words.
4
It is offensive to stereotype old African Americans as homophobic, and also “gay culture” is clearly “tribal” and privileged.
Ok Boomer.
2
Love Blow’s commentary in general, but the use of the term “curious history” completely undermines any argument of racist tropes by being one itself.
1
Thank you Mr. Blow for making me question my assumptions and changing my mind.
Not since Henry VIII has there been a greater conversion than what happened when African Americans became pro gay to support Obama when he turned pro gay to get the gay vote.
Now that Obama is off the stage, they are back to their rosaries.
2
You need to lookup the definitions of trope and racist. They don't mean what you think they mean.
7
Take a look at the failure of Prop. 8 (legalizing gay marriage) in California during the election of Obama. It was theorized that the election brought out more black voters that were opposed to gay marriage and that's how it was defeated. I don't see how that's racist.
2
Maybe "Mayor Pete's" problem is that no one really knows what he stands for, and that's just the way he and his Wall Street backers like it. He is operating from the Obama playbook where you impress people with your youth and eloquence, yet say nothing of substance, allowing them to project their hopes and dreams upon you. You owe the voters nothing, because you've promised them nothing. So now, we're being asked to feel all warm and fuzzy about ourselves by electing a gay man, who'll give away the store to Wall Street, instead of a black man who gave away the store to Wall Street. Now that's progress!
6
I read this column twice, trying to learn from it as I did from Mr. Blow’s previous column about Michelle Obama. But I could not get past his rage—it overwhelmed me. I know, my problem not his.
2
Are you running out of topics, Charles?
The information that X group does not like Y candidate comes from many polls, so it is factual.
The word "blame" comes from you, because the headline "Buttigieg is polling low among black voters" won't get as many readers.
2
"a majority of black people (51 percent) now approve of gay marriage, just seven percentage points fewer than Hispanics and 11 fewer than whites"
Why does the author not realize that he should be comparing white Democrats to black Democrats, instead of all black voters to all white voters? Homophobic white voters mainly vote Republican, homophobic black voters don't.
6
Buttugieg's real problem is that no one knows how to pronounce his name.
3
With all due respect Mr. Blow, I think you commentary is in need of a more detailed and substantiated follow-up article. You come out the door, guns blazing, with these statement:
"it is a disgusting, racist trope, secretly nursed and insidiously whispered by white liberals...."
And, as I read through your commentary, I didn't really see any measurable amount of fact-based comments to truly support such a blisteringly strong statement. And then later in your discussion you include this statement:
"Acceptance and rejection of gayness is highly correlated to religiosity. Black people in general are more religious than other racial groups. But, while black Protestants are more opposed to same-sex marriage than white Mainline Protestants (more moderate), they are more supportive of it than white evangelical Protestants (more conservative),"
It would have been very helpful for you to include just how many "white evangelical Protestants" fall into the category of the liberals you have just tarred with your brush. If one were to look at statistics showing political affiliation of the aforementioned white, evangelical Protestants, one might reasonably believe that there is probably an 85/15 spilt between Republicans and Democrats.
I think the real challenge here is that you decided to bring forth this accusation in a very "word-limited" Op-Ed commentary. Finish your homework, flip to the newsroom and tell this story in a format where 10,000 words will fit, and substantiate this.
2
Mr Blow concludes by asking "why do you want--need!-- this trope (black homophobia) to stay alive? Even by his standards, I think he may be getting a little carried away.
3
I am glad that Charles Blow confirms the homophobia of the black community. It exists, especially with the elders. I don’t know why on one hand he agrees with it, and then spends the rest of the column denying it.
6
Calm down please Mr. Blow! That older black voters in the south are not as supportive of Buttigieg —May or may not be due to homophobia. I personally look at that fact and say, ok, they are not comfortable with pda’s with gay husband, etc. that their youngers are. I don’t think of them or the “ narrative,” as racist or homophobic. For goodness sake, not too long ago, our beloved middle- aged black president found himself just so uncomfortable!
1
This time the reasoning is a little stretched, 51% is majority? and how big is the statistical error?
Furthermore Mr Blow seems like he is trying to see who is worse, black protestant white protestant etc. But who cares, the main question in my view is why there is so much bigotry, black or white it does not matter.
The only people from whom I have heard this trope is African American talking heads.
2
In Buttigieg's world, which is the world of the elite few and oligarchy (despite his using the New app, 'Design-a-Prez'+), freedom means freedom to be sick, without access to health care, and hence to not be free. Pete's running in the wrong primary.
A thin resume with an Ivy League education, military service, comfort in front of the camera, smart-sounding, and underrepresented minority, then click SUBMIT to the billionaires and Wall st. The mainstream media has elevated him to a status he doesn't deserve. It's basically the Obama recipe, with the modification that this guy is gay instead of (half) black.
He's like one of those guys born middle-aged whom you can't imagine in anything but a business suit or casual Dockers. Corporate America's great white hope as Old Joe keeps fading.
if I have to listen to this self-important frat boy pontificate for four years, please just shoot me now!
6
Methinks the man protests too much.
3
How much longer are you going to allow yours of to be taken for granted? Maybe yes time you spread your support a little. In the words of Donald Trump, “what the he’ll have you got to lose?”
1
Leaving Buttigieg aside for a moment, where there is anti-LGBT prejudice in black American communities, the most direct victims of it are black American LGBTers.
Let's not pretend that Louis Farrakhan isn't an anti-gay bigot or that he isn't championed by Women's March leaders or received with open arms by some Democrats in Congress.
That a shameless anti-LGBT bigot still is accepted and in some cases even championed by "liberals" is shameful. And again, the people most hurt by anti-LGBT prejudice being spread and/or overlooked in those ways are black LGBTers.
4
Mr. Blow...
I wish you would change the title of this column.
1. Nobody is blaming black homophobia, but homophobia IS more prevalent among black Democrats (as you note), and Buttigieg IS running as an openly gay man, and he IS struggling to gain black support. There is nothing racist about acknowledging these facts.
2. You rightly note that the relative incidence of black homophobia is not a matter of lacking sophistication; it is incidental to many other disparities with (frankly) sad origins. Higher rates of poverty, higher degrees of religiosity... these can be traced back to an ugly American history, but that merely mitigates culpability; it does not obfuscate or alter the facts.
3. And you should know this... the indignant tone you take in response to something that really should not offend you delegitimizes any future (valid) complaint you might make. There are many fights to fight for black people, for LGBT people... for so many people. And you are wasting your credibility picking a fight with other Democrats over what is (at worst) a clumsily stated observation that did not adequately convey the nuance and complexity of the problem.
This is how you spend your energy and daring? Fueling in-fighting on the left over an issue you acknowledge is real? This is exactly why Republicans say Democrats engage in identity politics (which is projection; we are not the ones saying Jesus and Santa are white). Your thin skin gives them cover. You should know better.
1
Buttegieg's problems go beyond his sexuality. He appears like a corporate chore man...who is in the politically convenient center, but not the well thought through or well negotiated sometines-necessary middle. There are people who like him and admire him...they just don't trust him.
1
Buttegieg's problems go beyond his sexuality. He appears like a corporate chore man...who is in the politically convenient center, but not the well thought through or well negotiated sometines-necessary middle. There are people who like him and admire him...they just don't trust him.
Why does Blow call attributing Buttigieg's lack of Black support to homophobia "a disgusting racist trope," and then go on to provide anecdotal evidence from Jim Clyburn & a CUNY study about homophobia among Black people?
If the point here was to argue his lack of support was for some other reason, Blow has failed on two levels.
First, he's failed to explain or evince what those other reasons might be; and second, I'm flummoxed by the characterization of the obvious impact of homophobia on how Black voters view him as "racist." How the heck is this racist if it's true -- or even if it's not completely true, but supported by a wealth of common experience? Try again Charles, because this piece was a fail.
5
Buttegieg's problems go beyond his sexuality. He appears like a corporate chore man...who is in the politically convenient center, but not the well thought through or well negotiated sometines-necessary middle. There are people who like and admire him...they just don't trust him with his too-many corporate connections.
Oh please. If the press (and polling) had said, that white Christian Conservatives have a problem with a gay candidate, would we be running around yelling racism.
1
@redneck. You call mayor Pete humorless, rehearsed, and mechanical. I find no humor in the repulsive Trump presidency. Rehearsed is what I consider prepared. Mechanical is what I call deliberate. I truly am astounded at how Trump’s Republicans are a vicious clown act without any principles. What happened to their holier than thou values? How did they fall so low?
2
Thank you Mr Blow as always for your pinpoint deployment of restrained rage. As a white woman of a certain age, I appreciate the way you call Mayor Pete out for the ease with which he wears the mantle of male privilege. It is galling to hear the chorus fawn over how unflappable he is - "such gravitas!" despite his shocking lack of experience, utter failure with issues of policing in the black community of South Bend, and coziness with corporate interests. Never mind - he is white, male, young, has a deep voice and speaks in complete sentences. In short, the very archetype of leadership in this country. Women have to fight ahainst this archetype every day of their lives. I want a leader with bold ideas, a track record of achievement, and a high squeaky voice.
2
Take a deep breath, Charles. Your defensiveness is unseemly. You're better than this. You don't know better than James Clyburn what people of his generation think. I know a brilliant professional black man who told his son that his attraction to another man was unacceptable in their family because it was against God's Word. Yes, Mayor Pete has other problems with the black community. But don't pretend that he starts on level ground despite his sexuality. It's demonstrably false. Religion is the only reliable source of homophobia I know, and it runs deep.
3
It’s a fair argument, despite this Blow-hard’s protests otherwise. African Americans - and particularly African American churches - have long held anti-gay sentiments. Is it a generalization? Yes. Is it grounded in reality? Absolutely, yes.
7
As a rule of thumb, I try to check myself when I start to say “all of group x believes...” It’s never all and I’d be amazed of Pete went with this narrative. He’s such a bright guy (always something surprising and negative on our political scene) and he admits that he has not succeeded yet in changing the racial problems in South Bend (omg he was honest and took responsibility). I’m old but I believe it is time to pass on leadership to someone who has many decades ahead of him/herself. And I believe the solution for all of us (and Pete) is Stacy Abraham’s as his VP. He has said that a woman has to be on the ticket either as pres of vo.
4
Right, so, It's perfectly OK to paint whites and white males and now, white gay males with broad strokes but It's not OK to characterize blacks as the same way? The reality is not anecdotal, Mr. Blow, blacks were instrumental in the passage of anti-legislation in the South. Deal with it.
3
Stop denying that Black homophobia is a SERIOUS problem that affects detrimentally Black gay men worse than any other group. The stigma of HIV/Aids, for example, and being on "the down low" prevents more Black men from getting tested and developing AIDS than any other group in the country, and why? During the process of fighting for Black equality (which any decent person would admit has been lacking in this country and should be addressed), they've forgotten that in order to be treated equally they too must relinquish their stereotypes about homosexuals being "weak" and "unworthy". I don't care what the roots are to this homophobia but it has ALWAYS existed within the Black community, and IS the main reason that Buttigieg does badly with Black Democrats, to the detriment of the Democratic Party I hasten to add.
6
Black voters are voters; to perceive them otherwise is insulting.
2
Not Buttigieg who is saying this, it's Clyburn.
3
Pete's history with the black community is limited, not curious. Black misogyny & homophobia is real and destructive, and gave us "prop 8". White racism and anger gave us Trump. It's not a contest. There are no winners. But to suggest they don't exist, is intellectually dishonest.
6
Stop denying that Black homophobia is a SERIOUS problem that affects detrimentally Black gay men worse than any other group. The stigma of HIV/Aids, for example, and being on "the down low" prevents more Black men from getting tested and developing AIDS than any other group in the country, and why? During the process of fighting for Black equality (which any decent person would admit has been lacking in this country and should be addressed), they've forgotten that in order to be treated equally they too must relinquish their stereotypes about homosexuals being "weak" and "unworthy". I don't care what the roots are to this homophobia but it has ALWAYS existed within the Black community, and IS the main reason that Buttigieg does badly with Black Democrats, to the detriment of the Democratic Party I hasten to add.
1
Nowadays any disapproval of homosexuality is termed "homophobia". Many minds are closed to the idea that such disapproval could be rational. It remains the case that a man and a woman reproduce, not two men or two women.
“Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is.”
So what exactly is the problem? That somebody white said it, and that makes Charles Blow angry? Because this column seems to acknowledge the existence of black homophobia, but angrily denounce this problem being so much as mentioned by white people. At least, that’s my takeaway from reading this, and I read all of Charles Blow’s columns.
Let’s get back to loving each other, while acknowledging that all our communities have flaws - especially when one category of oppressed people is taught to look down on another.
2
Stop denying that Black homophobia is a SERIOUS problem that affects detrimentally Black gay men worse than any other group. The stigma of HIV/Aids, for example, and being on "the down low" prevents more Black men from getting tested and developing AIDS than any other group in the country, and why? During the process of fighting for Black equality (which any decent person would admit has been lacking in this country and should be addressed), they've forgotten that in order to be treated equally they too must relinquish their stereotypes about homosexuals being "weak" and "unworthy". I don't care what the roots are to this homophobia but it has ALWAYS existed within the Black community, and IS the main reason that Buttigieg does badly with Black Democrats, to the detriment of the Democratic Party I hasten to add.
You claim when black homophobia happens is predominantly religious. Yet one can find endless examples of public disdain for gays in black music. These artists sidestep the issue with shaky statements about "no disrespect to gays but I don't roll that way" and then use the slurs anyway. True many have dialed it down in recent years but the many still shouting it are enough to wreck your argument. Nicki Minaj, J.Cole, Migos, T.I., Dr. Dre, Chris Brown, Busta Rhymes, XXXTentacion, Lil Wayne, Beenie Man, Iggy Azalea to name a few.
You could say some people are doing it for religious reasons, or that Buttigeig is not experienced, or trying so hard to be centrist he sounds Republican. Fine, but you can't pretend the homophobia embedded in hip-hop culture isn't enough to eliminate a candidate.
4
This young South Bender is more..yes MORE than ready to take up the daunting tasks that confront our nation.
3
Why does it have to be about sexual choice? Could it just be black voters prefer Biden more than the others? Me I like Mayor Pete but I like Biden more.
Mr.Blow has written once again one of his
predictable, politically correct columns.
anyone who has ever worked with black
people,or working class white people
for that matter, knows the extent of
homophobia in these groups. it is both
naive and dangerous to suggest for a
moment that black homophobia is a
racist trope.all races of people ,whatever
their ethnicity,need to be given space
to evolve or at least put their prejudices
out of mind when they vote.as for myself,
as I have written before,I don't understand
transgenders and probably never will.
however, if a transgender candidate had
the best political positions as far as I was
concerned, I would vote for him or her.
each of us must ,if not rise above our
prejudices, put them aside for
whatever we consider the common good.
4
The proper refutation of a 24 person focus group is not an opinion piece, even by a bisexual black man, it is a 2400 person focus group or poll.
1
I disagree that white liberals look down specifically on religious blacks; Feeling they are misinformed, uneducated, and need to be led. It’s not true.
White liberals look down on everyone!
3
Here there is the question: is it black homophobia or is it religious homophobia ? I have already commented that ascribing beliefs to a whole class of people is nothing but racism; I'll stick with that pronouncement.
According to polls, it's not racist.
It's facts.
2
Oh, I see.
blame conservatives. blame religion.
but don't blame those that actually are registered Democrats?
got it. Mr.Blow, your logic amuses me greatly.
3
Buttigieg is outperforming every expectation, so there's nothing to blame black homophobia for or about. I won't vote for him, because I want a president with more experience than being the mayor of a big college town, and I want a president who has had children. Experience and parenthood matter in a person's wisdom. But with that said....if you hang out with African-American gay folks, and they're intimate with you, they'll tell you that it's real problem in their lives.
1
You're saying white support for gay marriage, at 62%, isn't "an overwhelming difference" to the black community's 51%. Um, really? Nearly 2/3s versus barely half. The black community, as you admit reluctantly, is homophobic. Try convincing your community rather than blaming white progressives for lamenting it.
5
Okay, so firstly the statistics in this article are bad. Homophobia is substantially more prevalent among blacks in the USA. In 2008, 72% of American blacks thought homosexuality is "always wrong", compared to 52% of whites. Furthermore to interpret these numbers with respect to the democratic primaries, one ought to consider how they are distributed across the partisan divide. In the 2018 midterms, 90% of blacks voted for a democratic candidate, compared to 46% of whites. Because homophobia is more common among conservatives, one expects that most homophobic whites vote republican; but this cannot be the case for homophobic blacks, since barely any blacks vote republican. Therefore one would expect that the difference in the prevalence of homophobia among *black democrats* compared to *white democrats* is much, much larger than between blacks and whites in general.
So it is plausible that different rates of homophobia are at least partly to blame for Buttigieg's "lackluster black support". There may of course be many additional reasons.
But what's really surprising here is the double standard. If this had been about conservatives males having a problem with a gay candidate, there would be no outrage in these columns, regardless of the evidence or lack thereof. Yet we are told here that a measurable phenomenon is a "a trope", a "narrative", and it is heavily suggested that the people who point it out are racists. Post-truth much?
5
“Is America ready for a President Pete? Influential Atlanta pastor says no"
"Bishop Paul S. Morton Sr., founder of the Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship International and senior pastor of Changing a Generation Full Gospel Baptist Church in Atlanta, said he thinks the stakes are too high for Democrats to select an openly-gay can…..Dems I pray U will use wisdom in voting. Being too liberal will not win. I am not Homophobic."
Headline news in today’s Atlanta Journal Constitution. Bishop Morton is Black.
1
This column does not meet NYT's civility standards, so I reject it from my future reading list.
2
It is not a trope that many southern black churches are not welcoming to the LGBTQ community, any more than it is a trope to say that Evangelical churches hold similar views. Both are true statements. Stop trying to make any categorization into a racist trope.
4
Charles: I'm not exactly sure what it is you're trying to say here. You write, "Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is. But even that needs context."
Huh? Can you imagine ever being able to substitute the word "racist" for "homophobia" in any "context"? Of course not. Your attempt at somehow explaining away homophobia in the black community as a racist "trope" is absurd on its face when prominent members of the African-American community are so openly homophobic. You seem to suggest that religious beliefs have something to do with the stronger homophobic attitudes in the black community -- maybe so, maybe not. Does Mayor Pete's lack of support in the black community stem from homophobia or from issues relating to his record as mayor of South Bend? Maybe, maybe not. In any event, a really useful column on the subject of black homophobia would be one that explains why blacks are in fact more homophobic than other racial groups, because the homophobia in the black community obviously comes from a place far more ingrained than can be explained away by religion.
3
It’s not black homophobia it’s Southern Baptist homophobia. I have lived in South Bend and spent a great deal of time in Calhoun, Georgia. As Christopher Hitchens so famously said, “religion poisons everything” and you can just cast a glance towards Mike Pence and his belief in conversion therapy for confirmation.
I am not black and I am an atheist. I don’t believe it is the ridiculous racist trope that people are erroneously using regarding support for Mayor Buttigieg rather religious zealots. Mayor Buttigieg is not only gay he is Episcopalian. Puritans murdered Quakers though both groups were Christians.
Perhaps everyone should let things play out as some cultures are cautious about coming to an absolute conclusion too early. We all should be. I really hoped this administration would be ok and I was wrong.
Charles Blow expresses dismay that white gay men are fomenting some narrative about African-America voters being more anti-gay than some other unnamed group.
His evidence comes from McClatchy, CUNY, and Jim Clyburn, an African-American and heterosexual member of Congress. To my knowledge, white gay men don't control the media or even just McClatchy, CUNY, or Jim Clyburn. If Blow knows better, I'm sure all of us would be interested in seeing his proof that white gay men possess these magical powers.
Blow should argue with the people who are actually advancing this nonsense.
1
2 comments irritated me.....the data on evangelicals, who aren't a significant democratic demographic, and minimizing the generational aspect. BUT....digging into the data supports Mr. Blows thesis further.....liberal dems poll at 88% support for same sex marriage.....mods and conservative dems 64%. All women, 66% men 57%. Silent generation 45% Millennials 74% Silent generation in2005, 21%. With these other differences, why the focus on blackness?
Mr. Blow is using indignation to get away from the obvious. Of course there are plenty of black people who do not want a gay president and plenty of white ones too. To use this indignation defense means Mr. Blow is unwilling to look black racism and prejudice square in the face.
There is bad religion all across America. The white evangelicals who keep Trump in power are the worse group of religious people in America today. In the black community, especially among the old, there is prejudice about gays and Muslims and a need to bark at the things conservative white America does not approve of. It is wrong for Mr. Blow to use his bisexuality and non religious positions as if they are magic talismans that make him right as he pronounces black innocence from on high.
Black people are people. We have our group weaknesses and foibles just like everyone else. Homophobia exists. Islamophobia exists. As we enter this brave new world, a lot of us Archie Bunkers are scratching our heads and wondering what happened to the good old days.....that never were.
A quick anecdote: at a critical stage in my life, I lived with my grandmother and another cousin who she loved dearly, but he was badly damaged and doing nothing with his life. I wanted to go to college and was told no....it would make her look bad, because the other grandchild, who she loved more, was thoroughly on his way to bum and low wage for the rest of his life. Saint mom and dad and Saint black community are both lies.
there is no history or real connection to black America with mayor Pete. the mayor is young and as mayor he failed his African American citizens. his problem is white America. that claims evangelical beliefs and embraced Trump. but homosexuality to them us a hidden threat
Charles - you miss the point. The argument is not that blacks as a whole are more homophobic than whites. Rather, it is that black Democrats are more homophobic than white Democrats. As you point out, white evangelicals tend towards the homophobic, but unlike black voters, they do not vote Democrat.
2
Buttigieg's problem with black voters is ultimately not that he's gay. Trump is so contemptible that, should he win the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination, Buttigieg is assured of overwhelming African-American support.
Buttigieg's hurdle with blacks is the usual one. Race. He has explained satisfactorily neither his handling, as mayor of South Bend, Ind., of police brutality, nor his firing of the city's (black) police chief. Regardless of his sexuality, he will not garner significant pre-general election black support until he does. To have a chance at black votes, a candidate must convincingly demonstrate that s/he understands their needs, wishes, and aspirations. Inexplicably, black people are somehow just like everyone else.
1
A long-time Bernie supporter, I listened to what Buttigieg had to say when he first started running and was impressed. Mayor Pete is indeed brilliant and eloquent and seems like quite a good person. I felt his being gay must also have shaped his view and developed empathy towards others.
Yet in early September, some environmental groups rated the climate plans of the Democratic candidates. Buttigieg got a B rating.
Perhaps it was the only time Mayor Pete - Rhodes scholar, Harvard grad that he is - has gotten a B.
Who got the only A of all the candidates? Bernie.
I'm sticking with the one who brought me to the dance. That's Bernie.
60
It's a cop-out to blame religiosity for black homophobia as if the other explanation is what, the amount of melanin in the skin? Either they are statistically more likely to be homophobic or they are not. According to the author, they are. That is the bottom line the Buttigieg campaign needs to work with.
5
Republican Classic: Divide and Conquer.
4
It's not "black homophobia". It's just homophobia. Just like it's not white homophobia often directed at Buttigieg but just plain old bigoted homophobia. I've always been amazed at people who have themselves suffered from discrimination, oppression, and bigotry, who them impose the same on another group, in this case black people being bigoted toward gay people. Still, if black people want to give Donald Trump another four years, this is one way to do it. This country needs to grow up.
11
Yes. Indeed.
Preach it to the media that seems on a mission to do this.
Saw an African American female reporter on CNN do this just a couple days ago. Referring to Mayor Pete vis a vis "gay" as an "issue" for older black voters. As if she would EVER tolerate ANYONE referring to her being black as an "issue".
8
In 1991 my scientific advisor was department chair. He had a full-time administrative assistant working in a mini-office that had been set up for her inside our lab. During the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, I expressed the opinion that Thomas lacked relevant experience, that he would be a better nominee "after serving as a lower Federal court judge for several years." The administrative assistant, an African-American woman perhaps in her forties, stared at me with icy laser eyes & asked me, "How long must a black man wait?"
To the commentators who disparage Buttigieg as too young, too inexperienced, who patronizingly suggest he'd be ready _twenty years_ from now (he'd be only 58), I ask "How long must a gay man wait?"
In 2016 the American people — due to the "wisdom" of the Founders' design for the Electoral College — missed out on electing a woman to the presidency. Hillary Clinton was valedictorian at Wellesley in 1968; graduated Yale Law School; served as an attorney for the Judiciary Committee during Watergate; was First Lady of Arkansas; served two terms as First Lady of the US, eight years as a Senator from New York, and four years as Secretary of State. In her nearly 50-year career, Hillary Clinton accumulated lots of experience — arguably the most-experienced presidential candidate in US history — and also lots of enemies. And that's why we got Trump.
So I ask again, "How long must a gay man wait?" if gaining experience means gaining enemies as well.
6
Mr. Blow don't forget it was black church goers who (along with Mormons) who defeated Prop 8, the ballot initiative to allow same sex marriage in California. The CA Supreme Court stuck it down as unconstitutional. The measure won the second time it was on the ballot. Make no mistake about it. Homophobia is alive and well in the black community.
11
Wow! This is such a defensive and ultimately week opinion piece. After paragraphs of hum and drum defensiveness and actual generalizing against those whom Mr. Blow strawmans as generalizing against the entire black population, there’s this: “Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is. But even that needs context.” Well, no duh. People who see Mayor Pete’s struggle with black primary voters as largely based on homophobia are not saying all black people are homophobic. Still, who votes in these primaries, especially in southern bastions like North Carolina? Exactly the type of older, small town, religious black voters that would provide Mr. Blow’s context. No one should say that Mayor Pete’s early struggle with black voters weren’t in part of his own making. But to deny that (or to insist on “contextualizing” how) homophobia is not an essential factor in a married gay candidate’s struggles with black primary voters smacks of the kind of denialism one hears in certain white sectors about racism. Get a grip.
13
What about the disparity between black men and black females. What did the studies show, Are more black women finishing college than their make counter part, what is the opportunities for higher paying jobs for black women than black males. You vote to some degree because you have hope for your future. Black men along with Hispanic make up the largest group in prison populations, black men are targeted by police, and have a harder time finding meaningful employment. If these statements bear a measure of truth, then the black make is possibly less likely to vote because there is no demonstration of real meaningful change. If I an wrong then point it out.
2
sorry y'all but Pete Buttigieg ain't it... let him run for the Senate and show that he can win something in a red state, then come back later with some experience, and we'll take him a bit more seriously.
6
Thought black people might not trust Buttigieg or support him as a candidate because from what I've read he's done a lousy job of supporting his own diverse community of constituents in South Bend (at least the brown ones). Oh, the white "liberals" are saying it's because he's gay? That's funny. I thought it was probably because his record showed he was a pretty typical white male politician. Thanks for your column.
3
I’m imagining your reaction if statistics showed that white people were much more homophobic than the general population. I have a feeling you would not be defending it.
7
Opposition to a gay candidate has to do with social preferences. Buttigeig polls only a fraction of the black votes that’s Donald Trump gets for reasons of Buttigeig’s homosexuality, and that is a fact of life shared by all races and groups. Given a choice, most heterosexual families, if given a choice, do not choose to have homosexual children, although they usually love all their kids, gay or straight. Most of both Millennials and past generations, no matter how tolerant and socially comfortable they are with homosexuals, transsexuals, bisexuals and others, see anything other than heterosexuality as a limit on their romantic interests. They also see homosexuality behavior as something not to encourage.
2
It appears to me that Mr. Blow is making mountains from molehills as an excuse for this rant.
Unless I'm missing something from this column and the embedded links, the Buttigieg campaign isn't claiming that it's focus group was a scientific survey, but simply reported observations from the group (which subsequently leaked). That is the purpose of focus groups--to provide (nonscientific) data buffeted with the anecdotal narrative/context the individuals in the group can elucidate. Additionally, the generalized conclusions seem to roughy jive with broader, more scientific data that Mr. Blow himself cites.
Maybe I missed something. This just seems like a straw man argument at best and shallow pretext for a rant at worst.
7
People, take the smoke out of your eyes. Buttigieg's problem is that he is a mayor of a small city. He' s almost as unqualified as our glorious leader. Let's get someone in there who knows how to get things done and has experience.
4
Mr. Blow, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
Presidential candidates are like used cars. Mileage, dings, color, accident history, options, price, and other factors may be desired, overlooked, or dealbreakers.
Many of us (regardless of race) are excited by a pre-owned Corvette like Mike McRaven or a recycled Rolls Royce like Mike Bloomberg. We are less than thrilled by the Prius from South Bend.
1
Good column, although I think attributing White reaction to some Blacks’ problems with the LGBTQ community as a “racist trope” can, itself, be a racist trope. Many Whites are painfully ignorant of Black culture, but not intentionally racist. I wonder how many have been influenced by the schisms in various religions over gay participation that seem to be overly influenced by Black/African member churches?
3
Wow, Charles. How many white liberals are the same philanthropists who toss out pity and crumbs in equal measure? Talk about a lazy oversimplification. Most liberals I know--of various ethnicities--are working people, not members of the donor class. Apart from the fact that experienced pols like Rep. Clyburn acknowledge the issue of religiosity-tinged homophobia within the black community (a segment of the larger whole), the election season is currently in its primary phase, with only Democratic voters of concern. To compare the rate of black homophobia to that of white evangelicals, almost of none of whom identify as Democrats, is to render your point moot. A bigot currently occupies the White House. Any kind of bigotry within our own house will likely keep him there for another term.
6
The difference is measurable and real but is a racist trope. I get it. Wait- I don't.
The whole white privilege trope wasn't based on science either- just the musings of a social 'scientist' undergrad who made a list of, supposed, privileges like 'being around people that look like you.'
4
Okay, I won't blame Black homophobia for Pete's problems, and I'll agree that Pete isn't doing well speaking to the Black community as a whole. And I don't even think Pete is qualified to be POTUS, just in case someone comes for me from his Bernie-like cult (America LOVES themselves some mediocre white guys).
However, let's not just "stop" the racist trope altogether. Black voters have a terrible record on LGBTQ issues. Let's put it out there and be honest. Proof? How about CA in 2008...hmmm...remember? Black voters showed up in droves to vote for Obama. Great, fantastic. And then they pulled the proverbial lever for Prop 8 at a 70% clip. Not 50%; not 58%. Way more Blacks voted to ban same-sex marriage than Hispanic voters; way more than whites.
So just own it, and Black church leaders...DO BETTER.
7
Mr. Blow,
Please don't waste anymore time on this subject. I'm an older black woman and have voted for white men my entire life. President Obama was the first time I had an option to vote for someone else. I refuse to listen to any white man challenge who I vote for now that I have options to vote for someone other than a white man. I don't care whether he's married to another man, a woman, single, or anything else. You lose my vote if your go-to is that black people won't vote for you.
5
The one thing that the mayor's gayness has distracted from is his lack of experience in national politics and foreign affairs. He needs to come back after he has proven he can win a statewide or national office.
5
An uncomfortable truth does not make it a trope.
21
Ah, Mr. Blow points out the inevitable result of identity politics. If every so-called "marginalized" group has to blame someone else for their troubles, then it's inevitable that even the marginalized will be at war with each other. I do sympathize with Mr. Blow about white gays blaming black people for homophobia, but there, there is Mr. Blow himself playing the blame game by casting aspersion on Buttigieg's "curious history on race relations in South Bend, Ind." This charge holds even less water than the one about blacks being homophobic.
11
As I understand it, in Africa, Homosexuality is deeply scorned by the general public, as documented by the following information from Amnesty International:
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/lgbti-lgbt-gay-human-rights-law-africa-uganda-kenya-nigeria-cameroon
I note that in Mauritania, Sudan, Northern Nigeria, Southern Somalia, being a homosexual, officially gets you the death penalty.
If American blacks are not Homophobic, as Charles M. Blow is claiming, they have certainly dropped one aspect of African culture.
9
Mr. Blow, There is a strong, widespread hatered for homosexualty withing the black religious community. It is a well documented element of the very conservative christianity that most blacks believe in. Stating that truth is not racist. Claiming that it is racist is in itself racist.
19
Why does columnist Blow bring his own sexuality into this discussion. His sexuality has nothing to do with anything of interest here.
Some hard to accept truths.
South Bend Indiana has been a hard city to run for an extended period of time and far before Buttigieg became the mayor.
Buttigieg fired the first black chief of police which caused an uproar among the clack citizens of that community.
That incident caused a number of black citizens of our country to become anti Buttigieg and it grew.
Sadly, most races have the tendency to side with their own in our society , i assume the blacks have that same tendency.
The trial of O.J. Simpson points to that fact. The races separated when it came to the punishment phase.
The races (or religions ) often separate when it gets down to the nitty gritty.
Buttigieg's unpopularity is caused as much because he fired the first black police chief of South Bend as the homosexual beliefs by our nation's black community.
That's the way it is and there is no need to put a different spin on it.
They continue to have mostly black gatherings against Mayor Buttigieg because of his decision to fire the first black police chief.
That would be a pretty stupid thing to do if it were not justified. The mayor is known to be a smart person so pretty stupid if that police chief did not deserve that separation from the police force.
Columnist Blow is making this much too personal.
2
Is your next column going to tell us to stop labeling Louis Farrakhan as antisemitic? If you’re unable or unwilling to see the faults in your own community, how is the public supposed to take your oftentimes over the top rhetoric when criticizing others?
Facts are facts and you want us to ignore them because it doesn’t fit with your worldview?
Black people can be bigots just like white people. These kind of arguments should be on the Twitterverse not the pages of the NYT.
26
Please Mr. Blow. Are you teaching part-time in a black studies dept. of a university with a militant black power orientation? (these days that question answers itself I'm afraid).
This piece and your last one on Mrs. Obama (Abe Lincoln as racist white dude--really?) inflame rather than inform. It is neither racist nor "a trope" for white Dems like me to take note of Mayor Pete's struggles to attract votes of African-Americans or to note their religiosity. That's neutral observation and analysis of facts which even you ruefully admit is true.
It is then necessary for you to play the schoolyard finger pointing at a bully harsher than black voters, namely white evangelicals. True but irrelevant because the won't vote for any Dem, period. Instead of sober analysis which could have permeated this piece we find, as with your last column, a need to lash out and blame white Democrats, neutral professors or journalists in liberal papers. Yes, it appears even Jim Clyburn gets your disdain, and for speaking of his life experience and hand on the pulse of his southern black constituents.
9
Black people understand white people well enough to know that white male voters and white female voters--who voted for misogynist Trump over a white woman, are not going to vote for an openly homosexual Buttigieg! Black voters one priority is beating Trump and not being politically correct and allowing Trump to be reelected. Black voters are not supporting Booker or Harris and leaning towards Biden--because we believe he can beat Trump--peroid.
1
I am a black man in a same sex marriage. Let's not kid ourselves. Black people have a big problem with homosexuality. Let's be more honest: all the other races have the same issue. They deny the "ick" factor they feel toward gays. So many people are publicly tolerant but privately turned off. Things are changing but we have a long road ahead of us.
236
Speaking of tropes, Blow unfortunately repeats one of the most egregious: "It is in the tribal nature of gay culture that white men still center their white maleness as privileged." He goes on to claim that gay people of color are "fetishized" and "thing-ified." This may be his opinion, but it also represents a racialized perception of the LGBTQ population. Many of us are concerned about Buttigieg's standing among African-Americans, but it has to do with his own troubling history with the black community in South Bend and not because we fear some perceived homophobia among black men and women.
4
Mr. Blow concedes: "Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is. But even that needs context." This concession takes all the wind out of this oped.
The context, according to Blow, is that (1) acceptance / rejection of gayness is highly correlated to religiosity, and blacks, in general, are more religious than other racial groups; and (2) that a slight majority of blacks apparently approve of gay marriage. So what?
These observations do not dispel the "black homophobia narrative." And it renders almost nonsensical Blow's parting words: "Why do you want--need!--this trope to stay alive?"
It is not a trope when true, at rock bottom, as a matter of observable fact: Both objective and subjective data (Clyburn's comments just the latest) support the observation. What observation? The observation that blacks -- as well as many other racial group -- need to get with the Program and realize and accept that homosexuality is not a sin and that gays and lesbians should be protected classes, just like racial and gender (m/f) groups, and treated with dignity and respect. Blow would hardly disagree. Why get angry with a true trope?
10
Today's column gets off to a bad start: "Reducing Pete Buttigieg’s struggle to attract black support solely to black homophobia is...."
But readers of The New York Times, at least, are not seeing it reduced solely to that. The attitudinal pattern that you refer to is being reported as part of the problem, which it undoubtedly is.
Please take another run at this subject in the coming weeks.
4
Blow should read 538's latest column on this: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-some-democratic-voters-reluctant-to-support-a-gay-candidate/
The data seem to refute him pretty clearly. While a majority of democratic voting whites with a high school education or less accept gay relationships without caveats, less than 25% of similarly situated blacks do. When LESS THAN 1/4th of high school education or less black democrats think sexual relations between people of the same sex are "not wrong at all," then yes, there is a significant presence of black homophobia.
Whether that's why Buttigieg isn't attracting the black vote is a separate question. But it's far from a "racist trope" to observe that there is persistent homophobia among black democratic voters, and that it's more significant than among white democratic voters.
11
I'll be mad at black Dems if they stay home because of Pete's gay identity, just like I am still mad at black Dems that stayed home in 2016 (in greater numbers than white Dems). The Democrats are my family, and just like with my siblings, if we Dems are afraid of talking with each other because we'll get falsely accused of racism, then that is not good. Writer Blow's accusation is absolutely disgusting -- that those of us who worry that Mayor Pete's gayness will turn off some black voters also believe black Americans are a blight on our cities. Mr. Blow, that accusation relies on the same sweeping projection to an entire group for which you fault the small-sample study! It's really getting to the point where none of us on the left can discuss anything that has the parameters of demographics or race associated with it. We're all in this anti-Trump effort together, and if there are sharp elbows flying around maybe it's because we want to make sure that Trump is gone in 2020.
6
So, let's simply cater to 13% of the population, who really just want to vote for someone with the same skin color. Have I got it?
4
Perhaps the author has forgotten about California's checkered past with Prop 22 and later Prop 8 in 2008. The back lash against the Mormon and Black churches was swift, as the majority of those against Prop 8 saw black homophobia as the main reason why it didn't pass, with the Mormon church coming in as a close second. Don't believe me, here's an article from NPR which of course no one can say has a right lean to it https://www.npr.org/2011/03/04/134257733/the-root-the-misjudged-black-vote-on-gay-marriage.
6
Whoa. This is the most bizarre rant I've read in a while.
You start out making viciously bitter generalizations about white liberals (but, of course, in a nonracist manner) for which you provide zero support. Then you switch to providing evidence that an objective observer might conclude actually support the views that you had just finished blistering. (Though you do make the case that blacks tend to be less anti-gay than white evangelical Protestants.)
While I usually agree with you on most issues. This really comes off as unhinged. It might have helped if you started out by referring to the offenses that set you off, but I guess that would be difficult because they are so secretly nursed. Those of us who aren't in on the insidious whispers must have missed them.
8
Here we go again Charles. This time the argument is that blacks won’t support Pete Buttigieg because he is gay. Are you kidding me?
That’s like saying if you’re black your vision is limited, a replay of many other beliefs of how limited blacks are intellectually. What a joke.
We have hit a point in time where many, blacks included, look at ideas versus whether someone is gay.
I’m a fan of Pete Buttigieg because I have listened to his ideas. I’m a fan of Pete Buttigieg because he is the only candidate who is saying “let’s argue ideas versus Trump.” By the way, I’m black and, oh yes, I am not gay.
I have friends who are gay but that’s not an issue.
People? As the song says; “Wake up everybody no more sleeping in bed; no more backward thinking; time for thinking ahead.”
We are at a point where it’s ridiculous to see people still believing it’s the 1950.
Ideas. That is what many, who also happen to be black, focused on.
By the way Charles, hats off to you for opening the eyes of many who feel you argue race and you won’t challenge others who, also, just happen to be black.
It’s about ideas people. Blacks don’t just argue race as many might believe.
Get out more often. You’ll be surprised to see how it can change your perception, you know, like how many of us believe Pete Buttigieg is a better candidate.
5
Reading the comments, the best ones from gay and lesbian blacks and whites with real life experiences demonstrates that this is not a Black and White issue, pun intended. Two truths we know for certain is that Mayor Pete is lesser know among the black community and all communities and that Blacks vote overwhelmingly for Democrats.
2
Pete is #2 on my sheet as of now, and has #1 potential.
One reason he's not #1 is...I don't know if white homophobia in those 6 swing states keeps enough from voting for him to push them to Trump.
For the record - anyone but Williamson or Gabbard are still in play for me.
1
I see nothing in this article to challenge the view that homophobia among African-Americans is hurting Buttigieg. The argument seems to boil down to that even though the facts confirm that African-Americans are less accepting of homosexuality, I don't like that you are saying those facts,
2
Wow, Mr. Blow, I don’t think I’ve read a column of yours which is angrier. Given all your pent up anger simmering at the surface and clearly influencing how you perceive others, I wonder how you and I could ever have a reasoned conversation. As a middle aged, white, educated, left-leaning centrist woman, you have me prejudged and branded as the enemy.
You yourself admit there is homophobia among African Americans. Numerous analyses of various elections and issues have noted the effect of this on outcomes. Prop. 8 in California is a profound case study in this. And yet, if I dare to contemplate whether or not that might be a factor in play regarding Pete Buttigieg, you will unleash a tirade against me.
How are we ever to have reasonable conversations if conscientious, well-meaning, people like me are always going to have 400 years of anger slammed at us? Of course I need to work consciously at understanding how white privilege frames my thinking and assumptions, but please, give me a chance!
12
Blow does not offer much in the way of solutions for increasing Black support for Buttigieg or any other LGBTQ candidate. He complains and defends long held anti-gay positions in the Black community. He seems to want us to believe that Black churches are just as exempt from supporting Gay candidates as they are from paying taxes. Should we say stop blaming White people for Rosa Parks' problem?
2
I think this has it all backwards. Does anyone think we’d be speaking in presidential terms about the 37 year old mayor of our 399th largest city if he WASN’T gay? Perhaps black voters see through this better than other groups.
3
White Liberals really love Black Folks when it is voting time.In off years they put people of color on the self until needed again.Most Black folks I know dislike Trump so much they would vote for any Dem with a heartbeat.Folks think Pete talks a good game but really has no track record to back up what comes out of his mouth. Black folks are accustomed to good talking polls coming to the community at election time and not seeing them again until the next election. Pete's record in his city of 100000 people is not a magnet for Black support. Most people I talk to think prior to Pete needing us we were invisible to him. There also many people in the community who think Pete needs some more seasoning before they can really look at him.But what the heck! Why not blame Black Folks for The Homophobia that permeates our country as a whole.
2
I am thoroughly confused on the meaning of racist these days. Apparently it's not racist for Charles Blow to state that there's more homophobia in black communities than in others. It's not racist for Rep. Clyburn to say that many in his community, especially in his generation, would be hesitant to support a gay candidate. But if other pundits report on a focus group's coming to these same conclusions-- then they are trafficking in a racist trope.
So, is there a trope you're defining as racist, or is the idea that it becomes racist when the wrong person repeats it?
(and coming on a day when the Times published a food review that repeated two anecdotes about whites only being able to cook bland, gag-inducing approximations of southern dishes, I'm more confused than ever on which tropes are racist and which are benign)
4
The Hon. Rep. Clyburn said older African Americans would not vote for a gay man. Personally I am sick of Dems who aspire to bring us together. Remember Obama? The GOP fought him tooth and nail. Get a grip Dems - go for big things. Let’s elect a new FDR!!!
3
Maybe black people are that much more opposed to same-sex marriage than other ethnic groups, but black democratic voters probably are way more opposed to it than other democratic voters. It would have been nice to include that statistic.
Now I believe the reason black people still vote for Democrats knowing that they support same-sex marriage is because it is a secondary issue for most of them. However, voting for a gay presidential candidate puts the issue very much more in your face.
2
Mayor Pete and his supporters need to face the fact that Black voters might want
more than an inexperienced, republican-lite candidate. Also, Pete has a pretty bad record of race relations in his small town. Why should anyone vote for a 37 year old with so little experience. He’s not the only smart candidate who can speak fluently. Frankly, I find him glib and arrogant.
2
As a black person who is part of the LGBTQ community, I want to testify that the white LGBTQ community has a history of being unwelcoming to the African American community. White LGBTQ people bring their racism with them. I remember coming of age in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s and how racist the gay bars—and many other LGBTQ venues were for black people. Some of the pushback (real and/or perceived) by certain blacks is not strictly homophobia but an underlying anger about how some in the white gay community (particularly white men) want to compare and equalize black oppression and oppression of all gays. A gay white man has access to opportunities that blacks are just now accessing. It is insulting to some black people for a privileged white gay man to compare his experience with homophobia to blacks experience with racism. Gay white males have opportunities that even the most qualified black people (regardless of sexual preference) do not have. Both communities have faced struggle, but the white male gay community has never faced the terrors and exclusion from educational, economic, and housing opportunities that blacks have faced. I drilled down to the white gay male community because white lesbians still suffered some exclusion based on gender; however, they too still retained white privilege. However, both communities must VOTE BLUE in 2020 to save our republic!
3
I believe the data show that, on average, Blacks in the US score higher on homophobia than Whites, but the highest scoring group is White evangelicals.
1
All of this is, all of it, from both sides, is, to use a an ugly word, stupid. This is just the kind of Democratic infighting that has cost our party so dear over the years. Let’s have a march again, a huge march this spring, with black white gray straight trans...everyone. With one theme only, and no grandstanding by groups grinding axes— save the Republican now, now, now!Argue the fine points later.
Finally, someone knowledgeable and credible to knock down this
“ known fact “. You know who really benefits from this ? The GOP, of course. Using the excuse of Religion to foment division and decrease Voter participation. It’s what they DO.
Thank you, Sir.
This is anecdotal for sure, but this deeply religious African American mayor of a bay area city had a lot of nasty things to say about gay men. His opinion is representative of many men in town.
Reported by the NYT:
Faith and Tolerance Collide in Vallejo https://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/us/20sfmetro.html
Dispute Over Vallejo Mayor’s Comments https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/us/04sfbriefs.html
1
it matters. it's not the only reason, but it's not a non factor. you can say my perspective is proof I'm a faux progressive with secretly distasteful views about blacks. But as someone who lived in Nola for 6 years, working alongside people of all races, I can tell you southern conservative men hold negative views on homosexuality. unfortunately, and why this may seem as just an extension of racism instead of genuine inquiry is that southern black conservatives are the only socially conservative group that makes up a large block of democratic votes. you might wonder why there's not the same article about white homophobia? it's probably because they vote republican. your right it's not just a black homophobia thing. it's an American homophobia thing. no one should read that headline and think it means black people hate gays. no one believes Pete's only problem with black voters is his sexuality. but to write a whole article labeling anyone who thinks it's a factor an ignorant racist is out of touch with reality.
2
Buttigieg has two challenges with respect to African Americans, neither of which he caused.
First, contrary to the protestations in this opinion, Blacks do, in fact, show substantially more antipathy toward gays than other racial groups. This is not based on a 24-person focus group, but ample evidence including, for example, this Pew study on attitudes toward gay marriage:
https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/
Secondly, unlike candidates hailing from the Congress who can speak platitudes about race while making no tough decisions in the public glare, executives like Buttigieg have to make difficult decisions touching on racial issues every day, as Buttigieg did when he justifiably demoted his Black police chief who had become a subject of a federal criminal investigation. Or more recently when a white cop shot a black citizen, and Buttigieg correctly chose to seek an investigation to get the facts while Black activists demanded the officer’s head on a platter.
Buttigieg is not immunized against unfair and opportunistic charges of racism by his skin color as Harris or Booker is. These factors combine to create a challenge for his campaign that he has handled with impressive poise, in my opinion.
5
In an article published last week I addressed this issue first hand as the second gay person in history to run for the US Senate (North Carolina / 2008). Like Buttigieg I am a privileged white male. My experience contradicts the racist trope his campaign has been trafficking.
https://publicseminar.org/2019/10/mayor-pete-quit-scapegoating-african-american-voters/
2
Even one person practicing homophobia is too many.
"Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is."
Haven't you significantly undermined your essay's central thesis, Charles?
Buttigieg's problems might have less to do with black homophobia than his relative inexperience and youth, but by your own admission, Mayor Pete will have a hurdle to climb that other candidates will not.
The rest of your essay makes good sense when explaining the other obstacles Buttigieg must address, and as you point out he's doing it and his support among blacks has been growing.
The sad thing is that when speaking before an LGBTQ group earlier in the year, Buttigieg strongly condemned the entire notion of identity politics. Yet, try as he might, his gayness has been put under the microscope as well as the way other identity groups have been reacting to it.
If I did not know better, I'd guess that it was someone from the far right or Trump himself that rolled this apple of discord into the mix.
However, given some Democrat's hypersensitivity to identity issues, I'm fairly certain they did it to themselves.
Obama did not run as a black man -- which led some blacks to say he wasn't black enough. Currently, some who identify as LGBTQ say Buttigieg is not gay enough because he came out so late in life.
If Buttigieg runs against Trump, the choice will be stark and clear for blacks, gays and everyone else who does not want the next president to be a Russian agent.
When it comes to African American primary voters, Pete's sexuality is just one part of a complex story - a story which also includes bad decisions concerning minority neighborhoods and policing in South Bend. It serves the campaign's purposes to emphasize the sexuality and de-emphasize the racism.
In the article itself:
"Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is."
Even Al Sharpton advised Pete that black homophobia would be an issue for him (it's on tape.) So what's the gripe exactly?
No one WANTS this to be true, least of all Pete. Based on first-hand experience in South Bend Pete knows how critical it is to move beyond racism (and obviously, homophobia) in America. He's put together the most comprehensive plan to eliminate structural racism of any candidate in this race or frankly any past race.
So what's your real problem with Pete?
43
The author appears to be angry with facts, many of which he lays out himself.
47
Who cares what motivates the black voter as long as they vote Democratic.
1
Misguided religion is the common denominator among most gay-hating human beings. Not that there's anything wrong with that, apparently.
13
How do we Democrats reach out to black voters with a prejudice against gays? What's your advice, Charles?
192
I remember when Obama won California (the first time) AND a gay-rights ballot initiative was defeated in a close race. Black voters were consequential in both those decisions. Yes, Black homophobia exists. It should be called out just as White homophobia should be.
35
Simmer down, Charles. You could be one column short of rambling about how "white liberals" are just as bad as racists. They're not, and Rep. Clyburn is right -- and honest -- to acknowledge that this could well be an issue facing Buttegieg. The only thing I would add is that there are quite a few white, as well as Black, voters out there who might be less than enthusiastic about going out to vote for the 30-something gay married white guy. Facing reality is what political parties and candidates must do. Every characteristic of a candidate is important: age, gender, race, ethnicity, religion, marital status and yes, sexual orientation -- plus party, ideology, policy positions, experience and of course, personality and character. You can't get all up in arms because someone says being gay is an issue in a national election. It is -- and it's up to Buttegieg to handle it.
19
Mr. Blow correctly points out that homophobia exists in the black community, and I can attest to that. I can also agree with him that in the gay community black men are a fetish and are not treated equally. I can attest to this as well. My conservative opinions are often dismissed by my white counterparts, but I am fetishized by those same white men. Here is Pete Buttigieg's problem, no one knows who he is. Frankly, no one cares that you are gay. While homophobia exists in the black community, the black community has become more progressive on this issue as well. Buttigieg simply doesn't resonate with the black community. Bernie Sanders has a bigger name recognition.
4
I read Mr. Blow's column regularly, and I truly admire his passion and courage to speak truth to power. I also read his powerful and evocative memoir "The Fire Shut Up In My Bones". What I remember from those pages (among other things) is Mr. Blow's coming-out as a "bisexual" and the contexts and history behind his claiming that identity. What I remember even more is something more subtle, and because of that, more troubling. In his memoir, Mr. Blow describes his (sexual) relationships with women in tender, poignant and "fulfilling" ways. On the other hand, his descriptions of his (sexual) liaisons with men were done in a sad, negative and judgmental way (particularly the qualifiers / adjectives used to describe the latter).
I get a feeling that Mr. Blow is still in denial (or uncomfortable ) about the homosexual aspect of his bisexual identity. It maybe an internalized form of homophobia. It maybe also be a conscious, perhaps necessary, choice to privilege his heterosexual bona fides so as not to be seen as "other" by his African-American community.
This column uses the "trope" of racism to further that denial.
15
Charles, it’s not Buttigieg’s only problem, but it is one of them. And saying it isn’t racist. You, of all people, should know that. Among liberals and moderates, there is more homophobia in the black and Latino community than among white liberals. Every study shows it.
That said, Buttigieg’s bigger problem is his unwillingness up to now to reach out to the black and Latino communities to build bridges and support.
5
I have always felt that Charles has thoughtful things to say in his columns. I believe that he is stating that it is not correct to blame all of Buttigieg's problems on homophobia in the Black community. Charles is not saying that homophobia does not exist; he is just stating that there are other more relevant issues that Buttigieg needs to address if he wants to get more support from the Black community. In that, I am in total agreement with him.
9
Polls show Buttigieg has the same problem with Latino voters. Try a focus group with blue collar white males and ask what they think about the possibility of a gay President. On second thought, you can probably save your time and energy.
Beating Donald Trump is the singular issue on the ballot for me, and I don't believe it's Mayor Pete's time...yet.
2
"Reducing Pete Buttigieg’s struggle to attract black support solely to black homophobia is not only erroneous, it is a disgusting, racist trope..."
This article grossly mischaracterizes the discussion regarding Mayor Pete's appeal to Black voters. No one from Mayor's team has said anything sort of Homophobia being the "sole" reason for his lack of appeal, and neither of the people mentioned in this article or articles about the findings of the stated focus group argued that being he "sole" reason.
This is one of the reason why news organization shouldn't be a platform for opinion pieces. Opinion writers seem to have too much power to sway voters with their mischaracterization of the actual situation.
8
Pete will be fine; he runs on an inclusive message for all, race, sexual orientation, age. That's why people love him. His problem is people still just don't know him. I saw him on Colbert in February, knowing nothing about him; had planned on voting for Kamala... until I heard him speak for the first time. Sold. My vote for next POTUS is Pete Buttigieg.
7
Readers must remember that a few years ago, Mr. Blow wrote a column saying that the issues of fatherhood in the black community were also not real, that black fathers in general were more devoted to their kids than white dads, and cherrypicked a few statistics to support his case, while looking past overwhelming evidence about the collapse of the African-American community's families. When it comes to issues that put African-Americans in an unpleasant light, I don't trust him.
24
"It is tiresome and disappointing to constantly have to defend yourself not only from people who are openly hostile to you, but also from those who feign friendship but are secretly hostile to you."
Liberals are just as bigoted as Conservatives. That is a well known fact. Why is microaggression on the rise in millennials the post racial society.
3
I find out difficult to believe that Mr. Blow hasn't met enough black homophobes to verify this "racist trope". Because I certainly have. I grew up in the rural South, and attended predominately black churches. Were they more homophobic than the exclusively white churches down the road? Of course not. They do, however, represent a much larger segment of the black community.
Obviously, the black community is not a monolith, and individuals have different perspectives.
Which is why it would behove Mr. Blow to perhaps expand his circle of black friends beyond the local chapter of the NAACP.
He might find a lot of people that don't have graduate degrees, or politically correct attitudes towards the LGBT community, Muslims, or Hispanics. He would meet black Trump supporters and other living "tropes".
African Americans that, perhaps, don't know the racially-charged history of hyper-masculinity and homophobia in the black community, but have needed to survive in that world.
In a way that, if he ever has, was so long ago that Mr. Blow has forgotten what it's like.
10
The problem for Democrats is that “plenty” of black turnout and support is not enough. Even a mild suppression in black support can make the difference in a close election. Case in point: Hillary Clinton got 89 percent of the black vote in 2016. Still, it wasn’t enough; she still lost.
Why? Because black support for Hillary was lower than what Obama got in 2012 (93 percent).
And, more importantly, only 60 percent of blacks turned out to vote in 2016—a marked drop from 2012, when 65 percent turned out. (In fact, black turnout in 2016 was lower than in 2004, when John Kerry was the losing Democratic candidate.)
So, if Pete Buttigieg were the nominee, even a mild suppression of both black turnout and support — as a result of his homosexuality — would be enough to make a difference in a close election against Trump. Charles Blow’s attempt to diminish the significance of this hard fact is a classic “head in the sand” response.
7
I see a correlation:
"They see these black voters as needing to be led, directed and better informed rather than as sophisticated voters fully capable of making informed decisions that they believe are best for their lives and communities."
The NYT sees Trump voters as needing to be led, directed and better informed rather than as sophisticated voters fully capable of making informed decisions that they believe are best for their lives and communities.
6
Here's the actual problem.
As Charles Blow correctly points out, the percentage of black people who are uncomfortable with Pete's homosexuality isn't too different from those same percentages for white groups.
I assume that THE DIFFERENCE is that the vast majority of white voters who are uncomfortable with Pete's homosexuality vote Republican, whereas the vast majority of black voters who are uncomfortable with Pete's homosexuality vote Democrat.
In other words, Pete will have more of a problem with black Democrats than with white Democrats, but that isn't because black people are that much more uncomfortable with Pete's homosexuality than white people are.
10
Buttigieg can't win the election against trump. The reason is because he can't attract much more than white liberal democrats who don't care if they nominate someone who is totally unqualified for the job.. A sizable percentage of blacks, Latinos, older folks of all ethnicities, and white people who want to be sure we nominate someone who can attract enough voters to beat trump, don't like him, but it is not just the fact that he's gay. He is also completely unqualified. He is the most unqualified candidate running with the possible exception of Maryanne the new age nut. Small town mayor doesn't cut it. There is no comparison. He also has never won a single statewide, much less countrywide election.
If Buttgieg is nominated the democrats will be making the same mistake we made in 2016. We nominated a candidate even a lot of democrats didn't like. Voters felt like they had two bad choices so they picked one and trump won.
This election is too important for democrats to nominate a candidate as flawed as Buttigieg is.
5
Black voters in the state of Michigan went for Obama in two presidential elections, and then failed to turn out in the same numbers for Hillary Clinton in 2016, even though politically Clinton was nearly identical to Obama.
If black Americans failed to turn out for Buttigieg in the presidential election of 2020 in the same fashion they ignored Hillary in Michigan, they couldn’t necessarily be considered to be anti-gay.
Just willfully ignorant.
Like, say, white voters in Kentucky who voted in 2016 for the guy who promised to destroy the only health care protection they ever had.
7
I need a player's guide to follow this column. Lots of strawmen strewn about real villains in Charles Blow's version of "Have you stopped beating your partner?"
Who is "blaming Black homophobia for Buttigieg's problem? White liberals? Rep. James Clyburn? Campaign focus groups? Buttigieg? Trump? The Republican National Committee? Putin? All of the above?
I have no doubt that Blow's characterization of what he sees is accurate and in good faith but is it the most critical issue to air days before public impeachment hearings start?
I do recall that "Democrats take Blacks for granted" has been a key GOP (and later Trump) campaign message over the past couple elections. It is in aggregate a lie, though with a very long shelf-life as a go-to hot button.
We hope with every election that as a people we're good enough and wise enough to move us forward on America's promise of equality and justice.
But this election is different. We need to stop a freefall to a tyranny that dooms our democracy and damns the future.
Let's keep our eyes on the prize. Or we risk being blind from being shortsighted.
4
Jeez, lighten up Charles. What, you just figured out that white liberals sort of look down on their urban black voting buddies? And please, please recognize that Clyburn is right - out of curiosity last month I asked three of my over 50 black lunch friends about Pete and the gay issue and I got back the roughly the same answer - "I don't know about that" or "I'm not down with that". It may be true that Mayor Pete's lack of experience with the black community weighs heavy as well, but the gay issue in a very broad sense obviously affects his black support. It is what it is.
7
You spend the whole piece talking about what you don’t want us to focus on, and when you get to what Buttigieg’s problem with black voters might actually be, you just call it ‘curious’ and you provide a link. Curious, indeed.
6
Stop preaching so much. Others have a right to think and speak as they want to without your sermons.
9
Blacks voted overwhelmingly against same sex marriage in California in 2008, and as Mr. Blow notes, even today Pew Research shows black support for gay marriage at 51% vs. 62% for whites.
Is black homophobia responsible for Buttigieg's problems? Perhaps not, but the fact that the black community is less supportive of gays than the white community is a fact, not a racist trope.
12
Here’s a fact: in Christianity, homosexuality is a sin. Buttigieg is openly homosexual, and has no intent of changing his ways. Christians in general will not be keen on electing someone who openly sins. So, blacks are a natural extension of that, as many blacks in this country are also Christian. You can call their beliefs homophobia, but they are the beliefs nonetheless.
Also, try advancing an argument that being gay is like being black in this country and see how angry a black persons gets.
3
I love this writer and always get something valuable reading him.
2
Blow is right, this isn't a specific African-American problem. But he's wrong, if he thinks that African-American men, like white and Latino men, don't include many Democrats who won't vote for Buttigieg. Some people respond to sex and gender at a gut level.
In 2016 small but significant numbers of ethnic minority men, as well as white progressive men, voted for 3rd parties instead of Clinton. Because women didn't join this at all, it seems to be linked to gender. This isn't popular to express, and may prevent this comment from getting posted. But facts aren't opinions.
Since gender played such a role for a group of these men, it's possible that being gay will as well. This includes some African-American men, but it isn't specific to them.
The pundits who label Buttigieg's gender orientation a black issue make a mistake. There are quite a few white Sanders supporters who respond likewise. There will be Latino blow-back, too.
The question is whether Buttigieg's other strengths overcome this, or if his candidacy becomes a tipping point for gay acceptance, or whether it will be an incredibly ugly affair that pushes the country backwards. It may be all three.
But because a Buttigieg nomination will galvanize hateful memes, which will affect men like Mr. Blow a lot, perhaps he should be cautious in trying to excuse this or that group.
1
People can be repulsed by homosexuality and still support equal rights and the freedom for all no matter what their sexual orientation is. Are you advocating that everyone should be attracted to homosexuality, all should be gay? There’s nothing wrong with heterosexual males not liking gayness for themselves. Not accepting that just gives the anti-gay movement more power.
4
"Acceptance and rejection of gayness is highly correlated to religiosity."
Is this statement it supposed to excuse homophobia, or is it supposed to be a criticism of religion?
3
Interesting piece however since I have a simple mind I am not sure why Mayor Pete sexual behavior is any of my business. My issue with Mayor Pete is his relationship with Wall Street and corporate America. I get tired of listening to talking heads telling me that I am stupid if I support Mr. Biden or its a generational issue. No one knows what is in anyone's head except that person. The talking heads better address why Bernie, Warren take small dollars vs, Mayor Pete, Ms Harris, Mr. Booker who take money from Wall Street the issue of trust comes up with these candidates. Do they care about regular Americans or not.
No one is stupid and decisions are not made on the statements of a media talking head.
Religion is a personal experience and it is not found in a building but in your heart. Everyone needs to be honest to themselves on what qualities they look for in a candidate. However we all need to understand the stakes are very high for democracy and that Trump is the enemy of the people not Mayor Pete's sexual persuasion
2
Bernie Sanders is heterosexual and he has very little support among African-Americans. So maybe this is a bit more complex than stereotypes about homophobia.
4
It bothers me that when black homophobia is brought up, it’s never connected to white evangelical homophobia. Historian Wayne Flynt wrote the history of the Southern Baptists in Alabama, arguably the most influential evangelical group in the states of the old confederacy, and in it, he describes the way slaves and whites worshipped in the same churches before the Civil War, no doubt so that the whites could keep an eye out to make sure they didn’t get any rebellious ideas of (gasp) freedom.
Eventually, they allowed black men to preach a separate service, but a white man would always be present. My point in saying this is to illustrate that religiosity among the majority of African Americans evolved from an evangelical tradition. Of course they share the same conservative beliefs about Old Testament stories such as Adam and Eve, and of course homosexuality contradicts that.
After the Civil War, the Baptist churches were split by race, the white Southern Baptist Convention growing even more powerful, eventually becoming a political machine (it may as well be the state religion of Alabama because 1 in 4 Alabamians attend a Southern Baptist church), becoming a force for continued segregation, while the black Baptist churches influenced, even sparked, the Civil Rights Movement. While they diverged politically, the evangelical roots remain in tact for both. So when someone blames black homophobia, ask them why they don’t connect it to white evangelical homophobia.
1
I believe that Mr Blow doth protest too much. A "racist trope" - Mr Blow should really be ashamed of himself for saying that. He is trying to shut down a conversation that is worth having, i.e., you are a racist if you don't agree with him.
This strikes me as another one of those situations where woke/SJW types on the Left try to create a taboo over a particular subject, and demand that we all pretend to not see something that is in the open right in front of us. Older black people, particularly in the South (a key constituency), tend to be more religious and less accepting of gay people. (The same goes for older, Southern, white religious people as well. The difference is that the older, Southern, white religious people are not a key constituency of the Democratic Party.)
This is one data point among many. Hispanics often have more conservative views (compared to party orthodoxy) on abortion rights. And so on...
Let's not make more or less of it than what it is - and what it is can certainly be debated.
Frankly, I don't think that this is the entire reason that many black Americans have not warmed to Mayor Pete. But its still early days. In 2008, it took black Americans a while to warm to Mr Obama.
8
Buttigieg’s “black problem” is becoming as tiresome and overblown a non-issue as Hillary’s emails. If we’re going to start analyzing mayoral records on deceasing poverty in black and brown communities as well as community- police relations, by all means, let’s critically analyze Booker’s time as mayor of Newark. Honestly, this is the left-wing media trying to fashion a snappy narrative out of nowhere. Is Pete’s low black support a result of homophobia, or a perceived poor record on black issues? Most likely—neither. It’s probably just lack of name recognition.
2
Calling something a "racist trope" doesn't change the obvious fact that to win the Democratic nomination a candidate needs to be at least reasonably popular with core Democrats - and there is nothing more core to the Democratic Party than black people past age 40. Blow failed to convince me that it is somehow a "racist trope" to use data to make reasonable inferences about likely outcomes.
4
Just as many Fox News devotees spout whatever they hear there, so too do liberals spout comfortable lines of thinking - like this one. Most of us are a bit lazy in coming to our own well-considered conclusions.
2
the data require this trope to stay alive;
Our aggregated 2014 polling has found that about four-in-ten black Americans (42 %) support same-sex marriage, 11 percentage points below the comparable figure among whites (53%). Meanwhile, seven-in-ten African Americans (70%) say that homosexual behavior is a sin, compared with 47% of whites who say this, according to our new survey.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/07/blacks-are-lukewarm-to-gay-marriage-but-most-say-businesses-must-provide-wedding-services-to-gay-couples/
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/07399863900124007
The proportion of African Americans who indicated that homosexuality was “always wrong” was 72.3% in 2008, largely unchanged since the 1970s. In contrast, among white respondents, this figure declined from 70.8% in 1973 to 51.6% in 2008, with most change occurring since the early 1990s.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2974805/
Results showed that African American, relative to White, women endorsed more negative attitudes toward lesbians and gay men.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-009-9679-4
4
Mayor Pete is your ordinary run of the mill neo-liberal. Leaving that aside, I’ve observed that white people, and some upper class blacks, including the felonious Bill Cosby, blame lower class blacks for their problems. If they would just hitch up their trousers all would be well. It is within their ability to overcome discrimination without systemic interventions. Blackness needs fixing by blacks. Gayness, especially among whites, is normalized - no fixing required. I don’t think it escapes the notice, and irritation, of black people, especially when the gay man we’re talking about seems mystified by the displeasure of the black citizens of his city.
1
Bias is bias even though it may be the result of religiosity. But what do I know, I am just a privileged white man who is gay, a veteran, single parent of an adopted mix race child and living in Montana. I know nothing of bias though. My whiteness elevates me above all the struggles that may befall someone not so pale.
5
Thank you Charles. It makes me so angry when white people accuses black people of homophobia like there are no white people who are homophobia. The problem with LGBQT community is they want to be respected but won't respect people who don't believe in same sex marriage. And it definitely doesn't mean they hate or dislike the gay person jbut just have different moral values when it come to same sex relationships.
A black male classmate told me that homosexuality in black communities "does not exist". Sadly, he's not alone in this opinion.
7
Whites, pollsters and politico party writers need to look at themselves and their phobias before they point and call out other groups. No one is above this.
The referendum legalizing gay marriage was passed by voters in Maryland 10 years ago, a state with an African-American population of 30%. Without the 49% of African-Americans voting for it, it would never have passed. (55% of white voted for it) I agree, enough with the tropes that African-Americans will not vote for gay people because of their sexual orientation , it is just not factual.
Charles, I usually agree with you. On this question you are in denial about reality.
8
Try being a gay guy here in Philadelphia and *not* running into black homophobia from time to time.
In all its microaggressive and casual varieties. Not long ago, I was at an Earth, Wind & Fire concert, and found myself dancing with a circle of black ladies of a certain age. When I excused myself and said I needed to go find my husband, the dancing soon subsided, the smiles faded, and what had felt to me a lot like bonding turned suddenly chilly indeed.
So it’s out there – and Charles, I wonder whether you’re reading these comments and maybe beginning to rethink things. And don’t get me wrong, ostensibly I think I get where you’re coming from.
But the bisexual qualifier doesn’t cut it for me. Truth be told, we are all bisexual to some degree.
And I can’t help wondering whether the columnist doth protest too much.
281
The only candidate who is really strong among both whites and non whites is VP Joe Biden, because he is the most highly qualified and credible presidential candidate. Mayor Pete is extremely young and unvetted to be running for president. I find this column overwrought.
5
Mr. Blow states that "it's tiresome and disappointing to constantly have to defend yourself not only from people who are openly hostile to you, but also from those who feign friendship but are secretly hostile to you."
At least black folks are "openly hostile in their homophobia as expressed by Representative Clyburn. Mayor Pete should also be concerned about all those liberal white men "in the closet" who hide their homophobia under feigned acceptance of a gay candidate in public but would never admit it nor ever consider voting for him. There are many more of them out there than focus groups can unveil. They just don't speak out openly as many do in the black community.
2
I don't think it's "racist" to note that blacks do not comprise the most progressive wing of the Democratic Party. I think I've read in many places that it is young whites who make up the main component of very progressive Democrats. So in that sense, young white Democrats are probably less homophobic than other Democrats. That said, there is no doubt both black and white homophobia but I seriously doubt that race is the determining factor here- rather it is culture and education.
5
Once again, men are privileged over women. Absolutely no mention of lesbians as part of the Gay community. Women make up slightly more than 59% of the population and are completed ignored!
2
Maybe he’s just a mediocre candidate with no real chance of winning anything and people chose accordingly?
1
“I am..... and not a religious man.”
Mr. Blow, some religious doctrines or as understood by their adherents as ‘Sacred’ texts and are thereby affirmative in their literal declarations.
Expressions such as bisexual, homosexuality or gayness are foreign or not religious terms to my limited understanding of Sacred text; although I do consider myself a religious man. The accurate religious term is sodomy, which is an unlawful act not a mere temptation, attitude or disposition.
Religion as an idea or practice is not racial in its intent. Even though it has been used to buttress racial superiority i.e. slavery for profit. As opposed to slavery for humaneness i.e old world wars when the conqueror had a choice kill the prisoners and their families to prevent reprisals or have them pledge fealty and be a slave warrior and or support the conquering Kingdom.
I think Clyburn’s comments were fair, Church’s of the south and scripture recognition among people there is high regardless of racial identity. But for Black’s those church’s remain the strongest organization by far for community action. Buttigieg’s blunt public honesty was a direct and active rebuke of God’s Word. Unlike hypocrisy or thievery which is more speculative and fleeting in portent. Kind of Analogous to Republicans vs, Democrats in terms of our secular Constitution!
3
Pete is looking more viable every day. I hope he knows he can't win as a gay president, or a white president, or a male president, or an Indiana president.
1
It’s funny that only when we are truly indignant with the results do we get into the weeds of the modality and research methodology of a study. Focus groups make for poor heuristics but it seems to have given this writer the perfect proxy for the racism experienced in the LGBTQ community. But there is the long standing reality of discomfort with homosexuality by the African American community even if it isn’t the foil of Pete’s campaign
1
I (white) am not someone who "...sees black people as a blight on our big cities, pathologically prone to violence and in need of pity and crumbs they cast about and call philanthropy."
However, I do feel there is something about 'black churches' as a whole...in general...vs white churches as a whole. My experience has been that black churches/religious folk are as a whole, indeed more conservative, esp when it comes to sexuality. I think this also explains why, when it comes to young gay men who are essentially living the bulk of their lives out on the streets, I see more black men living this way than I do white. Likely because their (religious) families and communities won't accept their lifestyles, and make their home lives inhospitable to them.
3
I am no fan of Mayor Pete and I agree with Charles Blow that black Americans' reticence towards him entails more than just homophobia, but it's ridiculous to deny said homophobia. It's not just a black issue but one among whites and other non-black minorities, too, but it will hurt Buttigieg in the Democratic primaries where the black vote is crucial.
We never really had a national discussion about all the implications of gay marriage. But what the heck, we live in a cancel culture where a rebuttal to your views is no longer sufficient; you must be destroyed as an enemy to the people. In a way, Trump is just a crude variant of this theme.
4
Yes but homophobia is certainly not limited to blacks or any one group. I think the most people of our country can accept a thoughtful, honorable person as President, we did pretty well with our last President. I think Mayor Pete should be aware, I am certain he is, that a lot folks need to adjust to the feeling uncomfortable with his sexual preferences. The best way I have seen this dealt with by a public figure is when the public figure just doesn't make a big deal about it. You don't have to hide but you don't have to in-your-face about issues that are hard for some folks to deal with personally. BTW, I am not gay or a member of any special group, if that makes any difference which it should not. . . .start there!
There is no doubt that Buttigieg's problems with African-American voters go beyond sexual orientation. He has had well documented issues with his South Bend police force but to deny the problem of "homophobia" (and that word is far too extreme for what is being discussed here and argues for a point of view by its very selection) among religious people is foolish. And that is the issue- "religious people". Fundamentalist whites are essentially republican- few would vote for Buttigieg if he were Christ incarnate regardless of his sexuality. African-Americans vote far and away for Democratic candidates so even if religious black people are no more off put by homosexuality than religious white people it still makes a huge difference in Buttigieg's chances in either the primaries in the south or in the general election. To deny the problem suggests to me the author is not in touch with reality. I'm sure Buttigieg's campaign is clear eyed enough to recognize it and will do all they can to overcome it.
3
I find it's less about religion, more about needing to be the man.
1
Sophisticated would be showing up for Hilary in the numbers that showed up for Obama if only to stop Trump.
5
I like Mayor Pete, he is observant, thinks before he opens his mouth but is far too moderate for me. Like some other Democrats I am looking for bold change even if only a fraction of a progressive candidate like Warrens or Sanders agenda can be accomplished realistically. I don't want to settle for more of what we have experienced from the Democratic Party these last thirty years which has seen a continued rise in poverty and an erosion of the middle class while they stood by and watched the GOP and the rich plutocrats destroy us.
My personal experience is that blacks, especially older blacks are often homophobic. You site an 11% spread with whites, that is significant. Rather than attack those "liberals" that raise this as an issue wouldn't your time be better spent speaking to that segment of the black community. Homophobia is bigotry. You are well educated, well spoken and have a great pulpit with the NYT.
6
absurd that a small town small state Mayor seeks to run the Country. Run for Congress! Seek a Senate job! Get appointed to a role in the fed administration! Get some experience at the fed level. and give us a chance to meet you and yours.
2
Here are the reasons why I do not want him and it has NOTHING to do with him being gay: 1. He is too young 2. We need someone with more experience than being a mayor to become our Commander and Chief 3. He failed to solve the racial problems of his town so what makes you think he can heal the racial wounds of a nation!
1
Mr. Blow
I think you have over-thought and over-worked this a bit. And, you contradict yourself in the article.
Homophobia is a factor in whether Buttigieg can gain traction among black voters. Nonetheless, most black voters who normally vote democratic will vote for the Democratic nominee, whoever it is. Conservative white homophobic voters will not vote the Democrat, no matter who it is.
3
Wait! You mean somebody, somewhere has said some black voters follow their prejudices, potentially to the point of voting against their own interests?
How could anyone say such a thing about ANY racial group?
3
Is it such a stretch to say that many religious people (REGARDLESS OF THEIR COLOR) have a tendency to practice intolerance towards those who they view as violating one of their religious taboos? This does mean that black men are necessarily more homophobic than white men. It means that religious men of all stripes, from devout catholics to fundamentalist muslims, from orthodox jews to southern baptists, are more prone to intolerance of gays than non-religious people. Religion has always been a great divider, the cause of untold wars, persecutions and abominations like the Spanish Inquisition. If Mayor Pete has a problem, it is with the religiously intolerant. And they come in every color.
7
I don't want a candidate's "sexuality to be front and center" either. Am I phobic? No, I just don't care what a candidate or anyone does in bed behind closed doors. What's wrong with that?
1
Charles Blow is absolutely correct about how progressives think that black voters need to be led by more sophisticated white voters. Just the other day, a Bernie Supporter, a white 40-something woman, told me that blacks were uneducated voters. When I told her that she had made a racist remark, she explained that she did not mean that blacks were , and I quote, “...uneducated people. They’re just uneducated on the issues...”
Pete B is the 36 year old Mayor of a 5 stop light town where life is dominated by the University of Norte Dame. The ONLY reason that he has gotten any more attention than did any of the other young white guys is BECAUSE he is gay. That is also why he has had the funding to stay in the race.
4
That's it, Dems. Form up the circular firing squad, argue over who's the most righteous, the most aggrieved, and let President Id get another term.
It's why I'm an Independent.
5
Referring to any reference to black homophobia as a "racist trope" unnecessarily shuts down important political dialogue. It is possible (although seemingly unlikely) that Buttigieg will become the Democratic nominee. For those of us who feel it is critical to defeat Trump in the upcoming Presidential election, it is important to know how many registered black voters will avoid voting for Buttigieg because he is gay.
4
Buttigieg’s problem i. The African Americanbloc is name recognition, race issues in a real it sly small city, and giving the African American community a reason to support him.
Is it really a racist trope or is the situation more complex that Blow proposes? In 2008, 70% of black voters in California voter for Prop 8, which defined marriage to be only between a man and a woman.*
If a similarity may be drawn between black voters in CA then and black voters nationwide now, this suggests that some black voters, perhaps even a majority, might have a problem with a candidate who represents the very issue a large majority of black voters in California voted to prohibit a dozen years ago?
*Marisa Abrajano, Political Research Quarterly Vol. 63, No. 4 (DECEMBER 2010), pp. 922-932
5
This article shows exactly why identity politics, which Democrats are determined to practice, leads to bad results. Someone in another group is always offended.
The Democrats should pursue the votes of the poor, the working and the middle classes, regardless of race, national origins, sex, or sexual preferences. Every time the Democrats want to make a special case out of being some special (racial, etc) subset of the poor, working and middle class, someone outside that subset wonders why their problems aren't as important.
If Democrats want to appeal to the broadest spectrum of voters, they'll discard identify politics and look for solutions to all who are poor, working and middle class, without additional qualifiers for those classes.
601
@Steve C Not all problems are economic. Even in the workplace. If you build a society in which not only property but also physical safety is distributed, in part, according to identity, then you can’t provide the solutions you seek without addressing identity.
37
@Steve C ...Congratulations. This is the most cogent and compelling comment that I've seen on this issue. Identity politics does have some utility and validity, but it is waaaaay overused by Democrats, many of whom are completely obsessed by it. It's time to get real. Unjustified income disparities and the pathetic American health-insurance system are the real problems that most people face. Let's keep the spotlight on them!
74
@Steve C
I still confused why Democrats are individually and consistently stereotyped as playing identity politics. Is a Muslim Ban not identity politics? Is a Border Wall not identity politics? Is Mike Pence not the walking embodiment of identity politics? I agree with the universal appeal idea but coalitions of the unwilling are not a uniquely Democratic phenomenon.
164
Here's the deal -- there's nothing wrong with Pete Buttigieg that a couple of decades of experience beyond a small city mayorship won't heal.
291
@A.K.G.
People say he lacks experience. Fine. But what do you think he would be able to do less well than other candidates as president? I have not seen anyone seriously answer this question.
41
@EL I think his lack of experience would make it difficult to deal with Congress. As much as I liked Obama, I don't think he had the experience to deal effectively with Congress, Republican intransigence not withstanding.
14
@EL I think his lack of experience would make it difficult to deal with Congress. As much as I liked Obama, I don't think he had the experience to deal effectively with Congress, Republican intransigence not withstanding.
2
I don't think Mayor Pete is ultimately aiming for the presidency. He's in Indiana, rough going for a gay Democrat. To progress, he needs to get out of the state and to DC. He can be VP, Cabinet member, etc. and gain experience. He will have achieved his goal even without gaining the presidency.
2
How about this explanation for Mayor Pete's lack of support among blacks?
He is a typical meritocratic elitist who does not possess a comprehensive conception of the economic fallout of neoliberalism. He scoops up cash from Wall Street at every opportunity (he and Trump are the biggest recipients of Wall Street donations), he's the only Dem candidate to accept contributions from federal lobbyists, and his primary economic initiative as mayor was a failed attempt to bring Silicon Valley to town to save the day.
It's time for the Democrats to address the obscene concentration of power and wealth that got Trump elected; they can't just keep trying to make the fundamentally broken system work a little bit better for this or that identity group.
4
Interesting. While objecting to the broad brush that paints blacks as homophobic and thus anti-Pete, Mr. Blow offers this gross generalization about the gay community in general:
"It is in the tribal nature of gay culture that white men still center their white maleness as privileged, if one step removed from that enjoyed by their heterosexual brothers, where racial minorities are too often fetishized and thing-ified, seen more as an opportunity than an equal." Let's put those broad brushes back in their box and acknowledge the everyone--regardless of race, sexual orientation, or other demographic--deserves to be seen and respected.
8
Not your best Charles-- I agree with all the top, most recommended, criticisms. I found the piece incredible, so I had to skim it. I didn't uncover a single statement that Pete Buttigieg ever bought into this argument, which so many of the top commentors suggest is for their bitter experience true.
To the commentator who wrote Pete has no foreign policy experience, I humbly disagree. Serving in the military for about two years in the middle east is foreign experience, and learning the hardest way possible, about the costs and benefits of American foreign policy.
David Lindsay Jr. is the author of “The Tay Son Rebellion” on 18th century Vietnam, and blogs at InconvenientNews.net.
7
Color, gender, age, disposition, party - favorite color - these pale in importance of the issues facing us. No candidate will be perfect. All will face daunting problems. I like your premise and argument for it puts issues, challenges and problems ahead of less important individual characteristics. We need character, integrity, intelligence, drive, and a strong ability to lead in those we select. We will never get the total package. But let us please judge our candidates on those qualities that truly count when it comes to leading this county out of the Trumpian Pit we find ourselves. Is it Mayor Pete? He's white, he is young, he is gay. How does that compare with integrity, intelligence, drive and ability to lead? I pick that latter.
1
trump is POTUS because 100,000 "progressives" in Wi, MI, and PA voted for Jill Stein. Those 100,000 gave the electoral college to trump. It's those people who Dems have to watch out for. Those people for whom ideological purity is more important than America's future.
4
For him to blame his lack of support on homophobia is one way to distract from his failure to address the issues that affect the African American community in South Bend.
The mayor's record speaks for itself.
1
I'm a white gay guy of 74 middle of the road Liberal, you know me....I am glad that our black voters respect Joe's experience and I think their reticence about Pete is understandable. Not everything comes down to homophobia or racism, there is value in experience and stature...each man is a good man.
I'm for Joe and I'm for Pete, can't I be for both? I am so bored by the Democrats making every issue about prejudice, the left is just a big turn-off as the right. The Republicans love to listen to the Democrats trashing themselves. They did it Hillary, remember.
4
the problem, as usual, is lumping all persons of a designated race/ethnicity/gender/sexual orientation into a pre-determined category of voting behavior, as in "straight black men simply don't want to vote for a gay person" . . . but it's also true that there's ample evidence that a gay candidate will likely encounter resistance among many straight african-american voters, both males and females . . . so, notwithstanding mr. blow's towering indignation [is it really necessary to attack white liberals as "feigning" alliance with african-americans on racial issues?], i tend to place some degree of credence not just in the mcclatchy focus group (which mr. blow rightly points out is limited in size & weight) but also in congressman clyburn's observations, which -- given his history, position, perspective, experience & knowledge -- are entitled to more weight than being dismissed by mr. blow's self-righteous fury . . .
The relatively small differences between Black and White approval of gay marriage can be largely eliminated by normalizing for class. Persons with less education are generally less approving of gay marriage by a considerable margin. In a country where about 2/3 of Whites have some college while only 1/3 of Blacks do, OF COURSE, the overall approval of gay marriage is somewhat less among Black people. It’s not about race...it’s about educational levels.
1
Is Congressman Clyburn "trying to keep a racist trope alive"? Of course not. It is not racist to acknowledge that the black community as a whole is uncomfortable with acceptance of homosexuality. My black friends have repeatedly informed me about this phenomenon. My children's experience in a diverse public school system reflected it. Somehow it's racist to deny cultural differences between blacks and whites (claiming "color blindness" as an ideal) and also to acknowledge them. Obviously, there is generational, regional, income and other kinds of diversity within groups, but that doesn't invalidate observations like Rep. Clyburn's. And it doesn't mean Pete can't win the presidency of the United States, either.
1
Fact: same-sex marriage was originally projected to be passed by the Illinois state legislature in Spring of 2013. Gay couples were sitting in the gallery--eager to watch history be made.
It fell short and was not brought to a vote in the House because the bill's sponsor realized it would fail. Who were the hold-outs? Black Democratic legislators.
It's not a trope, Charles. It's not racism. It's fact. The commenters recalling Prop 8 in California recount the same concerns. Let's call a spade a spade and deal with the issue.
9
Mr. Blow's recurring theme seems to be that a discussion isn't worth having unless it can be cast in the most inflammatory terms. His column begins by "establishing" that racist views of white liberals insidiously propagate the view that homophobia in the black community could represent a barrier for Buttigieg's candidacy. He proceeds to admit that the view is, well, also promulgated by influential black politicians, and that polls show that acceptance of gay marriage lacks significantly in the black community (51% versus 62% among whites). Blow also fails to point out that this result has outsized implications for the beliefs of Democratic voters, as most black Americans vote Democratic and most of the 38% of whites not supportive of gay marriage are Republicans. Does any of this mean that Buttigieg faces an uphill battle from black attitudes toward gay marriage? That certainly isn't a forgone conclusion, and, as Blow points out, isn't materially supported by a focus group study of only 24 people. But it also suggests that one might reasonably wonder whether this issue might present a hurdle for a candidate in winning over the broadest coalition of Democratic voters possible. I understand that rhetorical 'yelling' can feel good when angry, but too often it can interfere with reasonable discourse.
2
Amen! Those are the same "Liberals" in name only who fight FOR school segregation in NYC for example. I have oft repeated on these pages that one ignores black voters at their own peril. The gall of white voters who want to impose their candidates-- Warren, Sanders, and most egregiously Buttigieg - candidates that mean next to nothing to black folks (with Buttigieg peaking at 1% with black voters) when the black voting block is THE most important and faithful voting block for a Democratic president. Black voters saved y'all from Roy Moore in Alabama, and they'll come through again to save you from Trump with the most likely candidate to defeat him, Joe Biden, though white voters are doing everything to sabotage that with pie-in-the-sky and everything-but-a-straight-white-man candidates that will get nowhere fast. Black voters won't let it happen. They're pragmatic and know who can unseat Trump.
Admittedly anecdotal, but my Black friends and colleagues relate that they are uncomfortable with homosexuality—especially recalling it being denounced from the pulpit.
3
So, white people are racists for calling out homophobia in the black community! Does the charge become valid if black people make it?
This perfectly illustrates how liberal identity politics cripples the ability of individuals within a diverse society to honestly debate and interact with one another. Or for that matter, to build a durable political coalition which can get things done.
Yes, conservatives have their own form of identity politics, but for the most part it's a reaction to the liberal form which dominates, where everyone is assigned a role of victim or victimizer, and to avoid being "proven" the latter, one must aggressively acquiesce to every charge by the former.
7
I think a lot of commenters are missing the main point of the column - black voters are not more likely than white voters to not support Pete Buttigieg because of his gayness. The trope of black voters being extremely anti-gay IS racist, and ignores strong anti-gay opinions in older whites, white Christian groups, etc. The Pete Buttigieg campaign needs to figure out how to attract black voters, in the same way any candidate needs to figure out how to attract voters to their campaign.
1
Me thinks thou dost protest too much. Whereas you often hit the nail on the head with your outrage, in this case you've hit a straw man - and your thumb.
First, polls and focus groups are what they are. They are art as much as science. The fact that one author states “Focus groups are not a scientific and quantitative method of gathering knowledge” does not mean the results they provide are always mistaken. Many prove to be accurate and many fail miserably. The most they can offer are general "truths." by identifying general beliefs, attitudes, etc. from the specific responses to the questions they pose. They cut, slice and dice data, most often employing many various demographic distinctions, in order to gain insight and predict and shape outcomes based on generalizations. They produce both stereotypes and distinctions.
In this case, not only has a prominent black political leader endorsed the generalization (for his generational and racial demographic), but you yourself concede that the generalization holds some water. And while the distinctions you provide may be useful in offering insight, they offer nothing to support your implied assertion that there is some significant portion of white liberals engaged in the discussion of this issue who actually believe homophobia is the SOLE reason for Buttigieg's lackluster support in the black community. But it clearly is one significant reason.
2
Great read. Thank you.
I’m white and independent and tossed out Buttigieg after the exchange with Swalwell in the first debate.
You're joking, right? I am an African-American gay woman who comes from a family rife with southern preachers and wanna-be preachers.
From personal experience, I can tell you that Black people tend to be more religious than whites. As a result, they tend to be less accepting of the queer community.
Even some of my non-religious Black friends claim they would have a problem accepting their sons if they turned out gay.
They claim that Black men already have a hard enough time surviving in this country and don't need to become part of another scorned minority. They are not wild about having gay daughters but are not as freaked out by the possibility.
Suffice it to say; I have experienced homophobia in my own family. So although I'd like to agree that Black homophobia is a trope, I can't, because it isn't.
364
If being religious predisposes one to believe that homosexuality is evil (and my experience with religious people would support that notion), and if black people are more religious, it is not unreasonable to believe there might be a connection between those issues that reduces support for Mr. Butttieg. The question would then be whether there is polling data that supports this connection.
I don’t see how it is biased to posit this connection. After all this would be like suggesting that there is widespread bias against religion. I have seen lots of polling showing diminishing religiosity in Americans but not that there is bias against the religious. Perhaps that question hasn’t been asked.
Clearly, a part of any sort of bias involves ignorance. It is much easier to dislike or mistrust that which we know little about. In any case, organized religion has a well-known tendency to rail against sexual activity of just about any kind, so for religions to preach against homosexuality isn’t surprising. It is also not surprising that citizens of faith would allow that faith to at least to some degree influence their political choices.
11
The real problem with Pete is no experience. He comes across as a gifted speaker, well educated, etc. etc., but president? He's made a great introduction and impression, but as mayor of a small city, no thanks Pete.
4
Yeah and trump had lots of experience ? Mayor Pete has more knowledge and experience than this crook and his henchmen in the WH in his left toe tip. The only experience this prez we are stuck with is in cheating and ripping people off. Not saying anything about his non stop lying. Bah Humbug!!
1
Any vast generalization usually devolves into something hateful, whether we are speaking about gays, women, or religious, ethnic and gender minorities.
But is there a place to admit that some black people might have more opposition to homosexuality, both in themselves and others, because being gay is an additional burden to a person struggling to fight against color prejudice?
In racially segregated communities, places where church identity provides a safe harbor, might there be a reluctance both taught and learned, about gayness or bisexuality or anything that marginalizes people who are non-white?
I think the answer, cautiously, empirically, logically, is yes.
9
Well, Jumaane Williams cites his religious upbringing as contributing to his reluctance to countenance marriage equality until fairly recently, in the last year or two.
Are we not to believe him?
2
My take is that homophobia is largely socio-economic. The less affluent and less educated a group the less supportive of LGBT rights.
15
@Tom Hayden
And there speaks the unadulterated voice of
"...Look-down-my-nose/ Blacks-are-simple-folks who- need-our-guidance..." Progressiveism.
It is amazing that such de facto racist views are always coupled with protestations of absolute innocence and "...Weii, I certainly did not mean to offend anybody...." apologies.
As I said to a Bernie supporter who had called blacks "...Uneducated voters..."
"...Take that approach down to 21st and Diamond and see how it works..."
This is an important article to read. Mr. Blow digs deeper than most reports. Homophobia is a serious concern in our country. Separating it from race and ethnicity and more closely looking at religious affiliation is a valid approach. Mr. Buttigieg has to appeal to a vast group who have certain levels of “objection” to a gay lifestyle. His appeal should not focus primarily on African-Americans. He must address the actual concerns of people which may vary between groups, concerns like jobs, wages, healthcare, etc. His being gay is a given so, Pete, tell us what you want to achieve.
6
Unfortunately, and I will be criticized, the African- Americans are their own enemy. In Mississippi the Dem lost by 6% points and few A-A's voted. The same in Georgia, South Carolina, and many other places. Often less then 25% of those eligible vote. If they were to even turn out 40% they could take over many areas and be able to change their lives.
The "mayor" is a great candidate and has so much to offer all of us.
33
You site a Pew report ( I could not find the size of the sampling but I will assume it is larger than a 24 person focus group) that you summarize as saying that approval of gay marriage with black voters surveyed were "just seven percentage points fewer than Hispanics and 11 fewer than whites." You comment that "That spread isn’t inconsequential, but it’s also not an overwhelming difference."
Come on. This is political head-counting, not philosophy. Pollsters politicians and pundits go crazy over numbers far smaller than an 11 point spread.
Good for Mayor Pete for wanting to do better. And hooray for black women for a turnout that made the winning difference in many recent Democratic victories. The statistics I saw show that the turnout of black women exceeded black men by 9% and that became a major congratulating topic of the punditry last year. There were many factors that contributed to that but I do not think it was meant as an insult to white and Hispanic women, or to black, white or Hispanic men.
Identifying trends is essential to modern politics and a spread that you write "isn't inconsequential" is worthy of exploration.
A staple of modern political coverage is to generalize a 52% to 48% statistic as "women voted for candidate 'x'" when it should read "a majority of women voted for candidate 'x.'" The imprecision is annoying. I hope you use your personal pique at this one to critique the wider issue of simplistic political coverage.
11
I agree with nearly everything Mr Blow wrote. However I do believe it was the case that black voters—and Mormons- helped greatly in passing Prop 8 in California some years ago to make same sex marriage illegal. Also, some years later a dear friend’s AfroAmerican partner committed suicide and our Greek American friend was not acknowledged in the services or allowed at the family gatherings.
Nonetheless I believe things are improving, but we need to be aware of the history.
13
There are reasons far more salient than black homophobia to explain why black people are not rushing to support Buttigieg. Eight years of the South Bend mayor's economic policies that have left the city's black population behind, the police brutality and subsequent cover-ups which plague that city, Buttigieg's firing of South Bend's first black police chief have naturally contributed greatly to distrust of Mayor Pete. Certainly, racism in South Bend mirrors the racism that infects America. Buttigieg has presented himself as the great gay white hope, and is hardly ignorant of the virulence of homophobia regardless of race or ethnicity. His immaculate bourgeois presentation of near perfection masks so much that is wrong about a President Buttigieg. To focus on black homophobia is misguided and a mere detail in a much larger picture that shows many problems with race and racism that he has done little to ameliorate during his mayoralty.
7
Thought provoking as always Charles. Sure is complicated. One thing that should surely hearten all of is that Buttigieg’s campaign is being taken seriously. Whatever happens in the next election we should all expect that a candidate's sexual preference to become far less of an issue than whether that candidate can satisfactorily diagnose society's maladies and articulate reasonable and attainable remedies for them. Pete is a pioneer of sorts and he is paving a way forward for so many more to follow.
6
Okay, Pete Buttigieg aside, what about Bernie? Why does the Black community not see how consistently Bernie has stood up for Black and non-Black Americans of the oppressed classes. Already in college, many, many years ago, before he even decided on becoming a politician, he demonstrated publicly and got arrested for fighting bias and discrimination against the Black community, notably his fellow Black students.
Now that racism has finally been outed by Mr. Trump and his followers, it is good that we are having this open discussion. It is a time for us to join hands and speak - not talk - with - not to - each other and figure out what we have in common.
I voted for a Black heterosexual man twice. I stomped the streets and knocked on doors for him. And I still admire him and his whole family for all that they have done for our country. And even though he was still "evolving" back then, at a time when my husband and I had already married in his native country Brazil, we held out hope for his change of heart in the USA. It came.
So if Black voters have a problem with Pete, speak with him! Ask him point blank what he will do for the Black community. And then think about whether his sexual orientation is really what is in your hearts or whether there is some other issue.
I hope that he will sincerely address your questions because there really are many, many non-Black Americans who feel your pain at the injustice done to the African diaspora here and who work to see that change.
6
I think it needs to be pointed out that Jim Clyburn is a longtime friend and supporter of Joe Biden. His "concern" about older black voters not supporting Pete Buttigieg appears designed to help Biden.
4
Buttigieg will not win the black vote because he’s gay.
If Buttigieg does not win the black vote he will not win.
Therefore Buttigieg will not win.
I am not interested in ANY candidate that cannot beat Trump.
I simply don’t care whether Buttigieg moves any needed forward on LGBTQ issues.
Being POTUS is not a right.
He should do that on his own time.
4
@Lisa...
So he has no right to run for President because he is Gay?
Blow doesn’t look at his own published data to reach his headline conclusion. A difference of 11 points in black-vs-white acceptance of gay marriage is seen as meaningless, but national elections are won and lost by a single percentage point difference in the popular vote. Whether you argue that the cause of black homophobia is religiosity or blackness, the two variables correlate so tightly that the true “cause” does not matter. Black homophobia WILL hurt a gay candidate among black voters.
10
"Reducing Pete Buttigieg’s struggle to attract black support solely to black homophobia is not only erroneous . . . " Question: who, exactly, is saying his struggle to attract black support is due SOLELY to homophobia? This is a straw man argument. Every discussion I've seen of this issue almost immediately pivots to Buttigieg's history with the black community in South Bend, most specifically issues surrounding police and housing in black neighborhoods.
7
Remember 2008, when the media were obsessed with finding white people who just couldn't bring themselves to vote for a black president of the United States? This is that same obsession all over again, but with a new and fresh target. In 2008, enough people of all backgrounds voted for Obama to render that obsession moot, and if Buttigieg wins next year, it will have been the same result at work.
Our media aren't fake as much as lazy, given to making simplistic assumptions because they just don't have the time to do their homework.
4
“These people” is the age old tell. It has been used from time immemorial to pursue the worst aggressions of the human race. Who exactly are “These people?”
1
To the contrary, it's time for the Black community to take responsibility for high levels of homophobia within its ranks. I encourage Mr. Blow to visit the discussion pages of Black-centric Blogs like the Root to see the comments there whenever an issue related to the LGBTQ community is posted. There is a lot of hypocrisy. It's a problem. And pretending it is not one will not serve the African American community well when it then wants to bring attention to its own continued struggles with injustice.
15
And during the AIDS crisis, weren't black attitudes towards homosexuality cited as contributing to the reluctance of young black men to admit to their illness and seek treatment?
3
My hope is that Buttigieg's lack of support stems from the recognition that he is a corporatist. And that by being beholden to big money donations he is supporting the power structure that foments discrimination as a tool to divide and conquer Average Americans.
I find his demeanor and eloquence very attractive. His liberal talking points are well spoken. He is an incrementalist. Which is another way of saying he supports the status quo. Which is another way of saying he supports what amounts to oligarchic rule by the financial elite. Thus he undermines his own credibility as a liberal. That is my problem with Buttigieg. I hope it is everyone else's as well.
Mr. Blow points out that there is a major generational divide in the black community over approval of homosexuality. And that seems to be true of a general conservative/progressive divide as well along with valuing policy vs valuing personality.
So back to my first point, I'm hopeful that Mr. Buttigieg's corporatist problem is the main reason for his lack of support. From anywhere.
3
Nate Silver just had a report on ABC that said there was polling that indicated black voters were not supporting Mayor Pete because he's gay. If that's the case, then it should not be dismissed as a "racist trope."
Let's imagine a future where it's Mayor Pete versus Trump in the general. Will black voters sit out and let an avowed racist win because they can't get 100% enthusiastic about the Democrat?
We know the answer. That happened with Hillary.
People get the government they deserve.
20
@limn Since you want to call Trump a racist, give some examples.
I have zero problems with gay people. But I have some very real problems with Pete Buttigieg.
For starters, Mark Zuckerberg is one of his close advisors.
Let that sink in.
The man who provided the means for Donald Trump to become president is advising Buttigieg in his campaign. And lest anyone imagine that Zuck has had a change of heart, remember that -- according to this paper -- this time around his platform "isn't just allowing lies, it's prioritizing them."
How can any thinking person imagine that Mayor Pete is possibly capable of assembling a credible leadership team if Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg is part of his brain trust?
And don't forget that it is Mayor Pete (NOT former vice president Biden) who is the darling of Wall Street for 2020.
References:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-21/zuckerberg-offered-advice-in-hiring-to-buttigieg-in-rare-move
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/facebook-political-ads.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/elizabeth-warren.html
7
I can remember going to lobby days on behalf of Equality Maryland to lobby for racial justice because racial justice groups were in our coalition. When it came time for us to have our lobby day for LGBTQ justice, those same black activists would come to our events — on the other side, saying we were sinners, LGBTQ people are not a civil rights issue, and that they shouldn’t vote for our agenda.
No group is a monolith, of course, but I can tell you that whatever harm the black community is experiencing at the hands of white racism doesn’t give them a pass for their incredibly deep seated knee jerk homophobia.
And just like in the past, they aren’t making any friend for their cause by both being homophobic and then demanding everyone shut up with the critiques because anyone critiquing them is just racism against their African / African American cultural values.
I’m sorry, Charles; your true friends will confront you when you’re wrong. And while white communities need to be confronted for their misogyny and racism, I’m sorry, but black communities need to deal with their misogyny and homophobia.
11
What does this sentence even mean: "It is in the tribal nature of gay culture that white men still center their white maleness as privileged, if one step removed from that enjoyed by their heterosexual brothers, where racial minorities are too often fetishized and thing-ified, seen more as an opportunity than an equal." This seems homophobic both because it characterizes all gay men as "tribal" and excludes lesbians entirely.
Yes, religiosity is related to homophobia and that is not confined to blacks. Unfortunately, that point is hard to get to in this column which seems to be a hit job on Pete Buttigieg who never, not once, blamed homophobia on his support among blacks.
14
Unfortunately there have always been a heavy dose of both racism and sexism among the gay community just as there has been sexism in the black community. the only way to combat this is being forced to individuate others in your community and not as an amorphous and separate group. Reach out to people in your community who are different from you in other ways. You will find that you have a lot in common.
3
Pete's problems with black voters is not his gayness but his milquetoast, Clinton-like centrism and pro-establishment policies. That is why a majority of the black community back Bernie Sanders, a brother by another mother who has been out in the streets protesting with, and for, them since the Civil Right movement started and talking about economic issues that directly affect the black community. They know who really has their backs and won't sell them down the river as so many other Democrats have continually done, after getting their vote. Bernie Sanders policies of Medicare for all, a living wage, publicly supported college education and trade schools, and a jobs program to rebuild our infrastructure and ending our insane wars will directly benefit not just the black community, but every working person in America.
3
@FXQ The majority don’t back Bernie - they back quid pro Joe.
In 2008 70 percent of Californian black voters supported proposition 8 which banned gay marriage in arguably the most liberal state in the land.
12 years later will perception change?
11
In an op-ed pleading for nuance, you make a crass generalization about 'gay culture' (accurate enough for some scenes, but hardly all). Why not follow the standards of discourse you advocate?
11
Dear Mr. Blow, I have always read your columns avidly & share most of your beliefs. I am appalled at the bigotry that is directed towards African Americans at every turn with utter impunity. Having said that, I find this column of yours missing a key acknowledgment- there is rampant antagonism towards homosexual community by the religious folks. Religious African-Americans are no less bigoted than white evangelicals (or religious Hindus or Muslims or whatever for that matter). It would be a true shame if people who have been at the receiving end of bigotry allow their personal bigotry from supporting Mr. Buttigieg
8
Frankly, any one of the Democrats currently running would do a better job than the current occupant of the Oval Office.
4
I had an AA woman tell me that "Black men won't vote for a woman", not sure about the gay part. I have not heard anything one way or the other about that in my world but when I was working for Clinton, that gave me pause. I have asked other AA friends and they deny it's true. I am not sure how these rumors get started.
1
Vote blue no matter who. If the Dems nominate a bucket of rocks I will vote for the bucket of rocks. Getting rid of Trump is not THE most important thing, it is the ONLY thing!
5
I don’t really hear people “blaming” homophobia for Buttigieg’s “troubles,” and, in fact, I think he’s polling much better than anyone could have expected. As we discuss candidates, is it wrong to point out characteristics that may make a candidate less attractive to some voters? There are several factors that make Mayor Pete unappealing to black voters, and I think it’s fair to say his “gayness” is one such factor among religious blacks. But, if what you are saying is that it’s wrong to suggest that homophobia would keep religious blacks from the polls in the general election, I found one thing in this piece to be true: black voters are loyal Democrats. That, of course, would be a reason not to be afraid of a Buttigieg nomination. (For the record, Buttigieg is not my first-choice or even second-choice candidate, but I too will vote for whoever we nominate, even if I have to hold my nose and vote for Joe.)
2
Mr. Blow himself explains the gap -- not so large -- between white and black acceptance of homosexuality citing that African Americans are statistically more religious, and therefore a greater percentage of them are put off by homosexuals.
So there need not be some rascist explanation for the concern among Democrats that Buttigieg may have some problem in attracting votes from African Americans, the largest and most dependable constituency that votes Democratic. Of course it is worrying to those who want to defeat Trump that even a sliver of this vital constituency might stay home on election day.
5
The key point here is that Democrats haven't had a majority of White voters in decades, but a majority of Black voters since... forever.
Being gay will not stop Black voters from voting democrat.
As Bakari Sellers explained on CNN this morning, the base of the democrat party is Black Americans. Democrats who don't realize this, enter politics at their peril.
1
@newyorkerva If black people will vote democrat no matter what, that means they can be ignored, and dem candidates can move their positions to capture people in the middle.
Thank you, Charles, for writing this. I agree 100%.
I appreciate Mr. Blow's column, though I am curious about why he did not mention what is perhaps the most salient fact. Mr Buttigieg's record on issues regarding racial disparities is extremely weak. He fired his African American police chief shortly after becoming Mayor. His police force woefully underrepresents African Americans based on population. A questionable police shooting received a tepid response from him. If he was a leader/innovator in addressing issues of race and policing, he would garner support--he's had the opportunity. As a Mayor, he should be a leader. I cannot help but feel that the whole reason he has gotten attention is that he is openly gay, though he is very late in coming out and it has been a boost for his candidacy, not a source of discrimination and violent oppression and terrible pain and loss such as that experienced by those of us in an older generation of gay men. And it would not be untoward to note the racism that exists within the gay community. This column is a needed reminder that there are tensions in the coalitions that constitute the Democratic Party and we should treat each other with respect notwithstanding our differences.
2
The distinction Mr. Blow draws between attitude and willingness to discriminate is important. It explains much about African-American voting patterns.
We know from the rocky history of civil rights enforcement that it has always been in principle and in practice possible for bigots to treat POC and women fairly. A white employer may follow the law while racism lurks in his heart. Conversely, it has always been possible for non-racists mindlessly to carry out inherited discriminatory policies in employment and public accommodations. Many did so well after passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act; it took years of marching and federal court lawsuits to teach the law, to win enforcement, such as it is (still incomplete) now.
Homophobia in passion and in practice is more prevalent among white evangelicals than other religious groups. That and disparate understandings of political goals and politically relevant character traits explain why statisticians do not lump all Christian evangelicals into one group. Members of the two groups, white and POC, would not always respond similarly to the question "Would you refuse to vote for a LGBTQ candidate for office?" even when they share homophobic attitudes.
There is a limit to what law can do. It can prescribe and enforce just treatment of others, but cannot instill love of justice in the human heart. Who knows that better than victims of discrimination?
I appreciate Mr. Blow's challenge to white liberals and especially to white, gay, liberal men to examine themselves and their assumptions. However, I take strong issue with Mr. Blow's statement, as if it is fact, that white, gay men "festishize" and "thing-ify" black, gay men. Where does that opinion come from? Perhaps from his own misguided assumptions about white, gay men. As a white, gay man, I admit I am far from "woke" and I struggle with my own implicit biases. But what I see is a mostly unified LGBTQ community that supports and loves one another in its common challenge to be fully accepted. I also see countless mixed-race gay and lesbian couples, many friendships that transcend race and ethnicity, an overall empathy for any of us who deal with homophobic religious families, and a lot of understanding for the double dose of prejudice black, gay men face. The challenge in our nation is to end bigotry and discrimination of any and all kinds. It is to see every person's innate dignity and value. Mr. Blow undoubtedly knows this, but his distress at the attacks on black, older Christians has led him to unjustly attack white, gay men. He's better than that and I hope he reconsiders his statements.
3
One point here. Black Democrats often poll more conservative than White Democrats. But that doesn't necessarily mean Blacks are more conservative than Whites. All it may mean is that Whites become Republicans if they lean conservative, while Blacks who lean conservative most often stay Democrats.
151
I’ve never thought of people of color as being more homophobic than whites. But it’s quite clear that the portion of the black community that would normally vote Democrat (which is the majority it seems) are more homophobic than white Democrats. That is the issue.
7
I don’t think this is a fair statement “it is a disgusting, racist trope, secretly nursed and insidiously whispered by white liberals with contempt for the very black people they court and need.”
White liberals secretly having contempt for black people? Come on Mr Blow, you can do better.
12
I often agree with Charles Blow, but here he's dead wrong. Black homophobia is no racist trope, and most gay Black men know this.
The term DL, or "down low" has significant meaning in the gay Black and Latino community. If Charles would like this practice to end, the members of minority communities need to better understand the origins of homosexuality and learn to love its gay brothers, sisters, and children unconditionally.
11
“Black voters needing to be led directed and better informed” that rings true as to the opinion of many white liberals and not only concerning Blacks ,but of most all people who don’t see life like them
1
Dear NYT:
For Charles, almost everything he does not like is a result of a racist trope.
So it is racist to tell the truth, i.e., that (1) Buttigieg is struggling with black support, and that (2) his own focus group found traditional black Americans are uncomfortable with his being gay?
You admit that homophobia is "higher in the black community," yet are attacking Congressman Jim Clyburn as a racist for responding honestly to this question?
Are journalists and politicians supposed to pretend it just isn't so? To lie about their findings?
Why keep attacking well-meaning liberals as racist? Can't you simply provide an explanatory context, instead of going for their throats every time?
10
51 percent of black people now approve of gay marriage, seven percentage points fewer than Hispanics and 11 fewer than whites.
Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is.
Psssst... Charles .... stop typing!
7
Charles: don't blame black homophobia for much of anything, altho' it created pain during the early AIDS plague, mainly for young black men. That's in my lifetime and yours as well.
My own father, white WWII vet, working class, and a decent man, never "accepted" that his loved youngest brother was gay. My mother knew, so this wan;t a secret to everyone. His age, and his Catholic up-bringing contributed to his denial and discomfort. He could vote for a gay man if he didn't have to "recognize" it. Before he died, he never even knew that his granddaughter had emerged as a lesbian, because my mother feared it would create a rift. So that's another cohort who may carry some homophobia, enough to cause them extreme discomfort: older, conservative, catholic, with rigid moral systems.
A long time ago, a guy I know WAS uncomfortable with the idea of being around gay men. I think that WAS true of a lot of straight me of a certain age. Many years and experiences later, he supported an openly gay man for a political position, and found himself distressed by the open homophobia that emerged against someone who he knew had been an excellent public servant.
There are those deeply uncomfortable with accepting homosexuality (maybe even occasionally ALL sexuality) because they were taught it was sinful, or because it presents an overwhelming change to their world.
Recognizing that a strain of denial, and fear, if not overt homophobia, remains in many communities is facing reality.
3
Your point is ridiculous.
You attack while agreeing with the premise.
- Blacks tend to have higher religiosity.
- Religious people tend to be more homophobic.
- Buttigieg is gay.
Ergo, homophobia in the black community is a problem for Buttigieg.
The same can be said of other highly religious people.
How this is racist is beyond me.
14
I doubt that this candidate can win the general election because I don't believe the country is ready for a First Man in the White House. That ain't gonna happen no matter how appealing Buttigieg is, in my opinion. There are so many ways the Democrats can blow this presidential election.. Buttigieg is one of them; Warren and Sanders are two and three. I think this election cycle is one of the most disturbing and frightening I've ever seen., because the stakes are so very high.
3
I'm also reminded of gay black icons; of Ma Rainey, Bessie Smith, James Baldwin, Richard Wright, Billy Strayhorn, Bayard Rustin, Barbara Jordan, Lorraine Hansberry and others too numerous to mention.
There may be a lot of black people--just as there are a lot of white people--that are uncomfortable with their gay brothers and sisters, but gay people have always been part of black culture.
1
Chicago overwhelming elected a homosexual mayor. Charles is right to say blacks look at what the candidates are doing for them. It is religious that feeds on discrimination of gays.
2
Talk about looking for something to be offended by. It’s not a secret that black Democrats tend to be more religious and socially conservative than white Democrats. Buttigieg will likely do well in Iowa and NH, but his unpopularity with Southern black voters will like stop him in his tracks.
You can’t win a Democratic primary without black support. Of course white Southerners are also more conservative, but black Southerners wield tremendous power in those primaries, and hence, the fate of the Democratic nominee. Their preferences matter. Nor did those people in the focus group say they definitely wouldn’t vote for Buttigieg.
Everyone has asked if Buttigieg’s sexuality might doom his bid. Winning an election is not about right and wrong. It’s about winning.
6
It seems to me that the objections seems to be based on religious fervor, just as it is with white evangelicals who oppose same sex marriage, are against pro choice , etc.
I'm an openly gay man who came out back in 1977 California. I have basically zero use for Buttigieg as a presidential candidate. I am well aware of the homophobia that exists in some quarters of the Black Community.
Pete does not offer solutions except to the technocratic elite. Sorry, it's nice that he can run as an openly gay guy--next?
He never stood a chance to win. He's a total careerist with a great education and is probably a very good mayor.
Sure, there is a lot of homophobia out there and it's an equal opportunity vice. Black, Latino, some religious community, LOTS of southern whites, Mormons, oil derrick workers..
Have I made my point. Moving right along....
3
Thank you so much for writing this! I was disgusted by the "it's the homophobic blacks fault" trope that too many white progressives immediately embraced, but I wasn't surprised. There's a reason why NYC is one of the most segregated school systems in the country. Mayor Pete has to prove himself to black voters, something that he has acknowledged repeatedly, and with sincerity.
Full disclosure. I donated to Mayor Pete's campaign back when his national media interviews were conducted with the kind of condescension and amusement one gives a precocious child. Why did I donate, because I listened to what he was saying.
2
Well... I live in Oakland where black people support LGBTQ rights.
But I've been in South Carolina where even Democrats are further to the right than California Republicans.
If Pete gets the nod, and joins with Stacey Abrams, Cory Booker or Kamala Harris, he may overcome.
2
@Occupy Government
Join with Cory Booker, okay; he may make the ticket now or in the future.
Kamala Harris will go no further.
As soon as there are in-depth examinations of Stacey Abrams' history, she will be or should be dropped. She formed not-for-profit companies and using government grant dollars, paid herself high salaries.
She had income from working as a tax attorney plus her small salary as a legislator (about $20K but paid about $30+ in expenses), and added between $50K and $80K per year from the not-for-profit companies.
Not for profit except for Stacy's profit that is.
Her history of playing with The People's Money to enrich herself should eliminate her from any office higher than the one she held in the Georgia Legislature.
3
"African-Americans consistently vote for Democratic candidates with progressive views on gay rights. "
No, Charles, they don't. Your own publication drilled down on four individuals who decided to stay home in 2016 because HRC was not Barack Obama. That was not a "consistent vote for a Democrat". A mere 80,000 (or 0.2% of national vote) spread across three states who felt that way lost the election.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/many-in-milwaukee-neighborhood-didnt-vote-and-dont-regret-it.html
Here in New Orleans, the turnout for a special runoff for Mary Landrieu garnered a 19% turnout. Four out of five stayed home! She lost, badly, and now Louisiana is represented by conservatives who don't have the best interests of black New Orleanians (to put it mildly).
In future columns, please, please focus on the importance of turnout. "ALL TURNOUT MATTERS", one might say. Yes, Mayor Pete's campaign should not use homophobia as an excuse or deflection, that's true. But low turnout is what ruined 2016, and threatens again in 2020.
8
Nice try Charles. Unfortunately, within the progressive orthodoxy, it's a bit knit picky to excuse Black homophobia on religious grounds while castigating evangelicals for the same thing. But that's a small point.
The larger point you are trying to explain is why Blacks tend to vote for middle-of-the-road moderate Democrats and are not naturally inclined toward the activist progressives. The answer is two-fold.
First and foremost, Black people are not, by natural inclination, very progressive. We don't want to live in a carbon-free world of enforced equality, forced genderlessness, mandatory political correctness, open borders and confiscatory taxation. In reality, Blacks vote for democrats because Republicans are portrayed as being antagonistic to Black advancement and prosperity.
Second, Blacks understand how the progressives play the game. When it's voting time, Black issues are front and center. When it is governing time, we find that environmental issues and the interests of white women and homosexuals are at the forefront of the agenda. Look, for example, at how the issue of affirmative action as redress for demonstrable past discrimination has been homogenized into an issue of diversity and inclusion primarily benefitting whites.
Democrats greatest fear is that an ascending Black middle class will one day begin to consider issues beyond race and start voting their broader policy inclinations and economic interests.
3
C. Blow, I hope to God your analysis is correct and Blacks will overall come to give Buttigieg a fighting chance to make his case. (For yes, despite his age, his calm intelligence and balanced approach makes him the "adult in the room" when it comes to the Democratic candidates.) But even the recent 6% black support you report is low for his overall polling among eligible Democratic voters. I DO think African-American traditional religious antipathy against gays has to explain a large part of that gap in polling. As you essentially suggested in your own words from this article, "Acceptance and rejection of gayness is highly correlated to religiosity. Black people in general are more religious than other racial groups." Ergo...
1
I appreciate your candor, Mr. Blow. That candor makes this editorial "curious" (to borrow your term): both internally conflicted and worth reading.
I was with you at first, when you talked about White liberals were stereotyping and scapegoating the Black community for Buttigieg's failure to catch on.
But as you brought in facts to support your argument, they complicated it instead. You began by stating that the originator of this controversy was Buttigieg's own campaign. They themselves commissioned the focus group study that determined that Buttigieg's homosexuality was hurting his support from "Black voters" in general.
Then you discussed how White pundits were running with the leaked results of that study, but instead of citing them, you quoted Clyburn. If "a raft of articles was published," as you say, then quoting those White pundits should have been easy enough. Why didn't you?
Next you provide some context for the homophobia some religious African-Americans express. You acknowledge it is a problem in the community, but minimize its influence on voting patterns.
Finally, you gloss Buttigieg's own history of engagement with the Black community and issues of racial justice as "curious."
I thank you for your honesty; it takes rare integrity to include data that doesn't buttress your argument. I hope you understand, though, why I find your essay to be at odds with its own thesis.
2
As a strong supporter of Buttigieg, I am hoping he will be nominated and that the voters will prove Mr. Blow to be correct. Should he get the nomination, there is no excuse for any Democrat African-American (or any Democrat at all for that matter) to not show up and vote for Buttigieg. I like some of the Democrat candidates a lot better than others, but I will vote for whoever is nominated.
There is no excuse for not voting this evil man out of office in 2020.
The same people tearing Buttigieg down now are the same folks who labeled Kamala Harris “anti-black” for her work as a prosecutor. Those careless tweets emphasizing that former idea (and thought pieces like this hot take - who I still can’t quite figure out who the audience is for it?) are then amplified and retweeted out to America by malign foreign actors further dividing and splitting an already weary Democratic base.
We’re going to vote for whatever nominee Democrats put forward - but if y’all can decide on one that’s under 80 years old it’d be appreciated.
1
You are grasping at straws, Charles. The evidence you yourself cite makes clear that black voters are less comfortable with a gay candidate than other groups. That isn’t the _only_ reason they may have for not supporting Mayor Pete, but your argument here is torturous and tortured.
5
Arguments about whether black folks are "more" homophobic are needlessly numerous and complicated.
A far simpler root cause of homophobia exists: religiosity, and more specifically, Bible-based religiousity.
Take the Bible out of the picture and homophobia largely goes away.
1
On October 27th, the Times published an article ("As Pete Buttigieg Courts Black Voters, His Sexuality Is a Hurdle for Some") in which Black voters were interviewed and named, and they made flat-out homophobic comments to the reporter. One example:“You say he’s married to a man?” he said. “He lost my vote. I believe in Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.’’ Despite the considerable merits of Charles Blow's argument, I think we should take care to NOT give anyone the impression that we're willing to give such homophobes a pass. After all, would White voters who said so cavalierly that they weren't voting for a Black candidate because of her race get such a pass? Of course not. Nor should they.
7
Black people don't want to support Pete Buttigieg because he seems like an untrustworthy candidate with respect to looking out for Black people's issues.
His speeches and PR efforts have seemed to have made that pretty clear.
It's crazy that no one is talking about how homophobic much at the Country still is. The president of the United States as a married gay men? He doesn't have a prayer of winning now. I'm sorry he didn't wait 15 more years to also garner more experience.
2
Charles is absolutely correct. Black voters like all voters will make informed decisions based upon the relative merits and defects of all candidates. The sexual activity and preference of each candidate will not drive the voter preference of all Americans independent of their race or colour.Merit or perceived merit will determine the next President. Gay or straight. All that counts is beating Trump.That is what really matters. Everything else is simply noise.
Thanks Charles for stating the obvious, I can only quote Epicharmus:" Don't trust people too easily." Buttigieg is no exception like all politicians, you have to earn the trust of people you need to win.
1
It is exhausting when each victim group competes for attention and priority. I worked in a school with only minorities. And it was awful. Every group: African American, Latino American, Jewish American, Gay American...wanted to shout, be heard and be in the front. It got tiring. Nobody wanted to listen, cooperate or follow. Being gay and being Black should not be a competition. And homophobia and racism need not compete.
We need more caring listeners, thinkers, team workers and follow the right leader people. We also need good intelligent caring honest leaders.
So far all Democratic candidates are excellent to very good. Full stop.
2
One thing I've noticed in left-wing political activism is precisely that venom towards those who fail to hold the socio-political beliefs as they do. Back when I was on Facebook, one friend without irony asked "don't they know to vote in their self interest" after weeks labelling the group in question (it was class-based in this instance) bigots, homophobes, xenophobes, and any other -phobe they could think of. They were taking for granted a group of voters purely on (perceived) economic considerations without considering how other aspects of their socio-political belief set may influence their ballot decision.
At a point where expressing extreme and unequivocal disapproval, shaming, ostracism, and even getting people fired are considered the tools for social activism, it's not surprising that these can't be turned off so easily when would-be allies don't toe the line on *all* issues. Politics is far too messy for that. Articles like this hopefully shine a light on how it can backfire and look plain foolish!
2
Mr. Blow’s column sounds to me like ego-preservation. He desperately scrambles to defend his race against bias against his self-stated non-heterosexuality. Higher disapproval rates of homosexuality among African-Americans isn’t a "racist trope," it’s an attitude difference supported by ample survey data. The recent trend of brushing aside unwanted but demonstrable statistical regularities by labeling them as "tropes" is bogus and should be rejected.
6
I like liberal pundits. If one doesn't agree with a political reality, they just declare it not to exist. Another version of Trump's fake news.
5
If the Dems want to commit political suicide and in the process give America four more years of corruption and chaos, then nominate a gay man.
The Dems could also consider a woman, or a transgender, or a Muslim. Or how about a minority woman who dresses like an Arab?
My point is simple. America is not an open-minded progressive country, and this fact cannot be wished away. Fantasy doesn't win elections.
2
I am a white person who's all on board the Pete train. I belong to several FaceBook groups in support of Buttigieg, and think Mr. Blow misrepresents what I, personally, have heard and read in this discussion. Yes, our FaceBook groups DO discuss Pete's need to attract African American voters, and that one issue of concern is him being gay. But nowhere have I seen or heard the word "homophobe" used. Nowhere. Instead, the discussions, at least in groups I belong to, are about how we can get Pete's message out to black voters, so that they see for themselves what a fantastic candidate he is for all Americans. No one, in my personal experience in this campaign so far, has expressed any disrespect for African Americans or for the values of any segment of the African American population. No one, in my experience supporting Pete Buttigieg's candidacy, has implied that we should try to change the values of anyone, white, black, or any other color or race.
You lead off with false assertion: "Reducing Pete Buttigieg’s struggle to attract black support SOLELY to black homophobia...." That is not something that any credible person or organization is doing.
And don't blame the campaign for the results of a focus group they commissioned. After all, if they had not conducted such a focus group, wouldn't you be among the voices shouting that he doesn't care about black voices?
Unfortunately, Charles, one doesn't have to look very hard to find survey after credible survey that provides significant evidence for relatively high levels of homophobia in the black community. Calling it a racist trope doesn't make that evidence go away.
7
I'm a civil rights and criminal defense attorney with over 25 years of experience. While homophobia certainly does not define black people, pretending it does not exist in the black community is ridiculous. Further, the best way to perpetuate a problem is to pretend it doesn't exist, or that it's just a racist trope.
Early in my career I was shocked to hear some of the things that came out of my clients' mouths. People who suffered greatly from racism, and had actionable claims, would nonetheless say the most disturbing things while discussing how to proceed with their cases, most specifically about gays. I heard every homophobic canard I'd ever heard, and many I'd never heard before.
If you do this work you come to a fundamental understanding that the idea that suffering builds character, or teaches people anything, let alone compassion, is inherently false. Lionizing individuals who suffer and then come to understand other types of suffering is incredibly important, but they truly worked to achieve that.
Unfortunately, those who suffer bigotry are often incredibly bigoted. They're interested in protecting what they perceive to be their own grievances, and the grievances of those like them.
Finally, suffering often damages people in ways not easily recognizable. It can easily make a person brittle, intolerant, and paranoid. These are the very sorts of things that feed bigotry and conspiracy theories.
It would be nice if all who suffer became saints, but most don't.
11
It is exhausting when each victim group competes for attention and priority. I worked in a school with only minorities. And it was awful. Every group: African American, Latino American, Jewish American, Gay American...wanted to shout, be heard and be in the front. It got tiring. Nobody wanted to listen, cooperate or follow. Being gay and being Black should not be a competition. And homophobia and racism need not compete.
We need more caring listeners, thinkers, team workers and follow the right leader people. We also need good intelligent caring honest leaders.
So far all Democratic candidates are excellent to very good. Full stop.
2
Another way Blow could have framed the issue is simply to say that many liberals are uncomfortable with religiosity and many of the attitudes that go along with it. Framed that way, yes, the relationship between agnostic? often atheistic? secular? white liberals and one of the most religious factions of the Democrats' big tent seems a lot less nefarious. Or, too put it another way, does Blow believe that most white liberals are entirely comfortable with those uber-conservative white evangelicals to which he compares the black community?
Charles contradicted (with statistics) the main point he tried to make. Surely he as a non religious bisexual man does not speak for what blacks feel in this matter. Charles, it is what it is and you're saying it's not doesn't help at all.
6
Third person politics. Always tricky. "I don't have a problem with Pete Buttigieg being gay but they do -- those people over there. And I can't change their minds. So Mayor Pete will have to go without their support, even though it's them, over there, who have the problem with his being gay, not me."
Congressman Clyburn, do you, personally, have a problem with a gay president? If so, say so. And explain your misgivings. Yours. Not somebody else's.
If not, say so, and guide those folks over there to your more open-minded position. That would be an act of leadership.
We decry sycophantic Republicans for enabling the appalling Trump. But we display a parallel cowardice when we decline to give Mayor Pete a fair hearing. If you, Congressman Clyburn, have integrity, so could Mayor Pete. Why not support giving him a chance to demonstrate it?
This stuff about black voters and Buttigieg reminds me of the silly comments made about black support for Bernie in 2016. At the beginning of the campaign, when Bernie was relatively unknown in the black community, particularly in the south, there was a lot of dumb commentary about him not appealing to black voters. The current Buttigieg story strikes me as equally silly.
That being said, Mayor Pete has been giving off some really stanky corporatist vibes that don't sit well at all.
1
Amen....... Black, Gay, Deeply religious with roots from the Southern Bible belt, and Republican, but ABSOLUTELY no affinity or appeal for Trump, Buttigieg, Harris, Sanders, Booker, Yang, or any of the other light weight Democratic pretenders. At present, Biden or Warren or I'll stay home in 2020.
Its surprising there is so much black support for Joe Biden, who although he stood next to Barack Obama for 8 years as his VP, and although Joe is not a racist in any sense of the word, 3 things stand out: (1) he is the architect of the 90's criminal justice reform bill that resulted in mass incarceration of black men mostly for drug-related offenses which imposed higher penalties for the form of the same drugs used more extensively in the black community; (2) he made a deal with racist members of Congress to end forced busing, the one effective tool available to compensate for the segregated housing patterns that resulted in school segregation; (3) he made the first move to recognize marriage equality pushing Barack Obama to move on it publicly. (1) and (2) should be disqualifying for black people; and if older blacks for religious or other reasons are not supportive of LGBTQ rights, (3) should be the straw that breaks any backs still stiffened for Biden. Yet, here we are. I think Mayor Buttigieg will eventually appeal to the black community, especially after he wins Iowa and New Hampshire. The real question is whether he can make the case that gets them off the couch on election day.
It would be more productive to take responsibility in dealing with the homophobia in the Black community, whether it is religiously motivated or otherwise.
This opinion piece is simply deflects blame, and steers it toward "cis white gay men(TM)" who are somehow responsible for everyone's problems.
5
I don't understand why Blow is so bent out of shape on this issue. Is he saying that homophobia in the black community isn't a real issue that should be addressed? Or is he offended by the tendency to frame black people as uniquely homophobic? I think we as a society are getting a lot of mixed messages on this subject. This piece only muddies the water more. A few years ago Lee Daniels, Oscar-nominated director & creator of FOX’s hit series Empire said that he wanted to address homophobia in the black community on his hit show. Daniels (who's gay) said that he feels that anti-gay sentiments are particularly common amongst black people. He said, “Homophobia is rampant in the African American community & men are on the DL,”... So I wanted to blow the lid off more on homophobia in my community.” Is he exaggerating or telling the truth? He certainly felt it was important enough to make it a main storyline in his TV show. Scandal star Kerry Washington seems to echo Daniel's sentiments when she received The Vanguard award at the GLAAD Media Awards. In a long speech, she addressed the hypocrisy she sees in people in her own community who don’t support marriage equality. You could certainly draw the same conclusion if you listen to rap music on the radio. Many of the artists are defiantly even aggressively homophobic. I have yet to see Blow take these people to task with the same sense of outrage. This is a very nuanced subject. Blow's hyper-sensitivity doesn't help clarify it.
5
"It is tiresome and disappointing to constantly have to defend yourself not only from people who are openly hostile to you, but also from those who feign friendship but are secretly hostile to you."
This is what PC has wrought.
2
Yes Charles homophobia is Pete’s problem, not just black homophobia. We can’t blame Pete’s continued problems being elected on black voters. That would belong to phobic black and white voters with a gay bias. As a candidate he’s doing well on most every point but this. He’s fundraising well. Is articulate and erudite. Is calm and very collected. Has tons of appeal with young voters. So if Pete were to become nominee this would be the major obstacle in his way. It’s not fair for white voters and even lots of gay white voters to point the finger at black folks if he doesn’t ascend and easily. Pete’s ascension is entirely up to him
A little more heat than light in this piece which detracts from the author's arguments.
1
I am a 70 year-old openly gay black man. I have known I was gay all of my life, and my biggest challenges have not been coming out of any closet, but looking in vain for any closet to hide in that would keep me safe and serene. I am no fan of Pete Buttigieg. My tepid reaction to him is consistent with the reception he receives among large numbers of black voters -- and it is not principally about homophobia. Buttigieg has never demonstrated any fluency whatsoever in addressing issues that matter to black people -- made all the more curious given his customary golden-tongued and eloquent delivery and clear thinking on all other matters. This tin-ear and flat footed comprehension is on embarrassing display in South Bend, where he struggles to understand black rage at overly agressive law enforcement against black people, and he's failed to hire the people who can best help him. Perhaps he can overcome this by at least getting the endoresement of some black people from South Bend. I've yet to see anyone step up. Something's not right...
1
excellent rebuttal to white privilege, Charles. And listen to them howl in these comments!
1
Obama ran on Hope and Change in the primaries and as a president was a neoliberal. This article from this paper best describes how the Democratic Leadership has lost voters. Mayor Pete is also running as a corporate friendly candidate.
* Nov. 20, 2016 “Many in Milwaukee Neighborhood Didn’t Vote — and Don’t Regret It”
“MILWAUKEE — Four barbers and a firefighter were pondering their future under a Trump presidency at the Upper Cutz barbershop last week.”
“They admitted that they could not complain too much: Only two of them had voted. But there were no regrets.
“I don’t feel bad,” Mr. Fleming said, trimming a mustache. “Milwaukee is tired. Both of them were terrible. They never do anything for us anyway.”
“As Democrats pick through the wreckage of the campaign, one lesson is clear: The election was notable as much for the people who did not show up, as for those who did. Nationally, about half of eligible voters did not cast ballots.”
“Barack Obama. Mr. Obama’s elections infused many here with a feeling of connection to national politics they had never before experienced. But their lives have not gotten appreciably better, and sourness has set in.”
““We went to the beach,” said Maanaan Sabir, 38, owner of the Juice Kitchen, a brightly painted shop a few blocks down West North Avenue, using a metaphor to describe the emotion after Mr. Obama’s election. “And then eight years happened.”
1
Maybe the Black community is focusing on more pressing issues that are directly affecting their lives every minute of every day as opposed to dissecting the nuances of the multitude of current Democratic Presidential candidates.
Count me in on that.
Remember Gwen Ifel's moderation of the Vice Presidential debate with Dick Cheney, where she asked VP candidate Cheney about the high rate of HIV infection among women in the Black community and he professed not to know? This sad fact can partially be attributed to men in the Black community leading a double life, on the "down low." So there may, indeed, be some ground to attribute Mayor Pete's lack of support among Blacks, if not to homophobia, then to an unwillingness to acknowledge a part of the community, itself, for what it is.
2
One of the refreshing things about Pete Buttigieg is that he is trying to build a coalition. He is tamping down the partisanship and asking us to work together. In that way, he sounds like Obama telling us we’re not red states and blue states.
Some of our best presidents have been governors. Why not a mayor? There’s something about working at the local level that makes you think practically and cooperatively. We need someone who knows what the heartland issues are.
I will say this about the South—including the Black community—you have got to show up here and let us get to know you. Black people are excellent judges of character. If you are fake it will come out. You have to show you care. I like what Mayor Pete has said about religion. He comes across as sincere to me.
Why is Buttigieg even an issue? He's not a leader among middle-class voters of any racial group. His "lead" is only among those whose vast money is backing him and his centrist, corporate values. Stop giving him any kind of platform in these columns.
So what? Many black people have always been and continue to be hostile to anything LGBT mainly because of their affiliations with black, homophobic churches. They conveniently forget about the racist firestorms that Southern Baptist churches fomented and stoked against them and now turn their condemnation, the very cancer that they fought, against another vulnerable minority.
5
Ignoring homophobia in the black community is a tragic misstep. We should be working to eliminate bigotry everywhere that it exist and not whitewashing our discrimination.
I’d challenge Charles to spend a bit of time outside of his liberal NY bubble to get a better understanding of how people live in this country.
8
"They are those who see black people as a blight on our big cities, pathologically prone to violence and in need of pity and crumbs they cast about and call philanthropy."
so you are against more entitlements, welfare and support?
3
So what is it Charles ? Reading this ..its clear you want it both ways.
And then you take a swipe at white males who happen to be gay ?
Sorry .. there is more resistance in the black community. Call it prejudice ? Sure .... it's there. This is nothing new ... will it change ..sure again.
Let's be honest and not skirt the truth .... it's helps everybody
5
What a hilarious and solipsistic column. With so many self-identifying aspects, it must be exhausting to chase down each outrage every day. Though here, it seems you protest a bit too much, or perhaps you do not speak for everyone you think you do.
3
Amen, Charles. You want to get black votes? Spend time with black voters.
1
This black vet thinks Pete Buttigieg is doing great and he has my support.
5
The poison dogma religion has put in the minds of people everywhere is the problem. Those who cite the Bible as the word of a god are the deluted ones. Wake up and listen to what Mayor Pete is saying. Stop being blinded by the dribble of some outdated men who lived in caves thousands of years ago.
1
It's interesting that the comments have largely replicated the debate the article is condemning. The reality is that, given Buttigieg's record as mayor, there is no reason anyone should expect the black community to support him. Period.
And, yes, to ignore that record and blame blacks for the lack of support is racist.
2
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
1
Blow rationalizes bigotry. A gay man of any color is denied federal and constitutional rights and protections that black heterosexuals take for granted. White gays indeed need to acknowledge white privilege. But black heterosexuals also should acknowledge their heterosexual privilege and confront homophobia in their own communities. Blaming this on “religion” is a dishonest excuse, Blow has made a cottage industry of condemning the Trump base, much of which is fueled by right wing religion. A better headline would be “Stop Blaming Buttigieg for Black Homophobia.” Hate should be confronted wherever it resides.
3
We get it. Black people have a problem with gay people.
It's not your fault.
They jumped the Intersectional Line in front of you and like any good NY'er..you can't let that go.
Think of the gays getting line jumped by the transsexuals? They're not happy either.
As for the black and brown Christians who still believe in the intact family structure?
In 2020..they'll be voting for Mr. Trump.
He may be a crazy, but at least he's not Intersectional crazy and even though these hardworking families know that America hasn' t always been fair, they also know it's a just nation..you just have to keep looking forward instead of wallowing in self-pity about how hard your 'tribe' has it.
5
Maybe Buttigieg's problem with black voters is that he's basically a Republican.
1
Mr Blow.
you categorize all white men with the same broad strokes that you are railing about in your article. "It is in the tribal nature of gay culture that white men still center their white maleness as privileged"
i for one am getting really tired of "that" trope. Not all white men are racist (or old or angry which seem to be the other generalizations people these day like to make), but you certainly wouldn't know that from reading articles like yours.
6
Well, well ... apparently ok to accuse whites of inherent and irredeemable racism; but to accuse blacks of homophobia, apparently out of bounds.
7
"Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is."
There's clearly a problem, but just don't point it out because that's erroneous, disgusting, racist etc. etc. etc. How convenient.
5
And this just in from the Atlanta Journal Constitution....
https://www.ajc.com/news/religion/america-ready-for-president-pete-influential-atlanta-pastor-says/c5QLyjLGLK9rjUZxv7ewsM/
1
The black people who know the Mayor of Indiana's 4th largest city best aka the citizens of South Bend like him the least.
And they formed their dislike based upon his mistreatment of them while he was still cowering and hiding in powerful privileged white European American Judeo-Christian macho male closet.
And so what if the separate equal black African American Christian Church teaches that being LGTBQ is a choice and a sin?
Black men, women and children shed their blood sweat and tears for the benefit of all Americans during their Civil Rights Movement aka 3rd American Revolution aka 2nd Reconstruction.
Indeed it was black LGTBQ who led and rose up at the Stonewall Rebellion. But they are little noted nor long remembered. Tarana Burke founded # MeToo while black and female.
Being black in America subjects you to condescending paternalistic white pity and condescending paternalistic conservative white contempt.
Black people are expected to be grateful, invisible and silent. White liberals want to be forgiven. White conservatives want black folks to get over it.
2
@Blackmamba
Now that you're done haranguing us white folks about our paternalistic and condescending attitudes toward blacks, how about you harangue black voters to show up at the voting booths in greater numbers than they are now?
The line:
"Reducing Pete Buttigieg’s struggle to attract black support solely to black homophobia is not only erroneous, it is a disgusting, racist trope"
is precisely why many conservatives refuse to consider voting for democrats. This is an ignorant statement. As most commenters have already noted, the homophobic sentiment has nothing to do with race, rather religiousness. Even Blow comes to state this later in his opinion. What race baiting. I now cannot respect Charles Blow.
1
If Charles Blow is denying any religious involvement among church going Southern Blacks that disavows homosexuality, I suggest he attend a Sunday morning session to see if his opinion remains valid. And to suggest that Mayor Pete has a “curious” record as Mayor just because he had the audacity to fire a Police Chief who happened to be Black is an insult to those who support equality for all. I suggest Mr, Blow reread his own column to see if he really supports his conclusions.
5
There’s no doubt but that Charles Blow is seriously punting this one; my guess is that at bottom, it’s because he takes class and race a lot more seriously than he takes gender, whatever his sexual identifications may be.
I think it’s a whale of a lot better to look at problems openly and try to figure out how they got to be problems, rather than shoving them under the chair, sofa or church pew.
Oh, and let’s not forget that white working-class guys have a few little elephant skeletons in their various closets when it comes to gay folks.
This article does not address two important points:
First, as Blow says himself, there is almost no data on the topic. Nevertheless he expresses strong opinions about the effect that Buttigieg's homosexuality would have black support.
Second, it is true that blacks vote strongly Democratic. The issue for 2020 is whether that support will soften at all if Buttigieg is the D nominee. Clinton received 89% of the Black vote in 2016. A drop to 85%, could swing the election, but Blow does not begin to address this possibility.
2
I fear Buttigieg will suffer more from his height — or lack thereof. Unfortunately, this is not a joke. I foresee him and trump on the debate stage, trump hulking behind him as he did to Hillary, and many people’s subconscious deciding that Buttigieg is not “strong” enough to be commander in chief.
I doubt that most people will listen to that internal voice, but in a close race (and, as hard as it is to believe, polls tell us this will be a close race in key states) it can make a difference.
This does not mean we shouldn’t nominate him. After all, if they can “swift boat” Kerry’s Vietnam service, they can use anything against a candidate with some success. But it does provide perspective on all types of “prejudices” each of us might fall victim to. Admittedly, some are more talked about (e.g., homosexuality, gender, age) than others, but we can’t prejudge a candidate because of them or we’ll keep ending up with candidates looking exactly the same.
I like Charles Blow, but this op-ed is a bit odd. On the one hand he rightly tries to refute homophobia as a primary driver for Buttigieg's weak support among Blacks- on the other hand he offers what amounts to supporting evidence.
I agree that the primary driver for Black support is not probably impacted significantly by homophobia. I do not support Buttigieg and I am gay. I do not like his corporate fund raising, I find his centrist positions weak- and his best displays of passion are when he is leveling attacks against his Democratic opponents.
If I were looking at the candidates that best support the needs of Black Americans- in fact all Americans- I would choose Sanders and Warren.
A warning to Democrats- Buttigieg as well: to the extent they level unfair attacks against their Democratic opponents- they make themselves more vulnerable to a demagogue like Trump. Furthermore- given this- to the extent they engage in these attacks it undermines their claim of sincerity and looking out for their constituents interests. This was every evident in 2016- as Clinton was pilloried unreasonably- and with the resulting election of Trump- undermining every liberal cause for the next 20 years.
Just wanted to add this to the discussion. During and after this year's celebration of the 50th anniversary of Stonewall, the streets of the Village were filled with tens of thousands of people, a huge, a very huge percentage of whom were people of color. I think that reality is somehow lost in how this is being discussed.
2
I am happy to read in Mr. Blow's opinion piece that 51% of black voters now approve of gay marriage. That is encouraging. We all have to be more tolerant of our sister and brother human beings. There is too much divisiveness in the country as it is.
But honestly, every segment of the American electorate has to take a cold hard look at the current administration, and what the Democrats are offering in its stead.
For this Democrat, I do not care what the sexual orientation is of Pete Buttigieg. We have to listen to his words, grasp his ideas, reason with his logic about how to turn this ship of state around to get it back on course.
No candidate is perfect. He has made some mistakes within the black community in the city he governs. But the blacks who swallowed hook, line and sinker Trump's rant about what have they got to lose by voting for him need to come to a reckoning within themselves and decide: which candidate is the Anti-Trump? Which candidate has a moral backbone? Which candidate is bright enough to actually deliver a better deal for the people of this country?
1
A candidate who identifies as gay is placed at a disadvantage in most elections. They may have to choose between staying in the closet, or trying to get ahead of the matter by self declaring up front. It is unfortunate that sexual preference has to enter into an examination of candidate qualifications. It is entirely possible that, if elected, Buttigieg would not be the first gay president, just the first that voters would know about up front.
This is a complex issue in some ways, but there is no doubt that using whatever homophobia does exist in the black community to explain why Buttegeig is not polling well there is reductive. This is especially true when there is a much simpler explanation: Buttegeig has no national presence among black people, no demonstrated track record on national issues important to them, and not a great record within South Bend. Other candidates have been showing up in black communities in different parts of this country for years and have a record going back decades. You can't build that overnight, or even over the course of a single presidential campaign. Most people who get to know the guy seem to like him, but there's only so many people he can meet and so much time he can spend, and until he needed black voters, he didn't seem to think it was that important to meet with them. Trust takes time.
1
This is a good and well reasoned article, but it begins with the wild ideological PC rage that smothers discussions these days. We should be able to discuss social issues without people being called racist at every turn. You convince no one if you begin by yelling.
6
I don’t know, Charles. In this one case I do not buy your argument. The African-American religiosity is not a trope and even MLK was a homophobe before he was not.
No matter what, though. The electoral college will not elect Mayor Pete, even if he has the popular vote. I’d like to see him on a ticket as VP.
1
Considering the shameful treatment of all minorities by this administration, I should think that anyone would see the importance of moving away from hateful comments and attitudes. Imagine suggesting a judge could not be impartial because he was of Mexican descent. Imagine singling out a black man in a crowd and saying "There's my African American". The fact is that some of the democratic candidates are just too old to serve four years. Buttigieg is smart and young and better prepared on day one than Trump will be when he is removed or rejected.
Mayor Pete is the second place moderate behind Biden and ahead of Klobuchar. However, it is not a time for moderates. Trump has riled up the real left and the moderates, bless their hearts, are kind of a bunch of pearl clutchers. Oh, they don't dare try to do to much.
The moderates think we should be respectful of the GOP politicians. Which, sounds kind of dumb given that they are the people protecting the criminal president. So, it is a bad timing to be a moderate in this cycle. However, the media, corporate entities, will and are trying hard again to get a Clinton clone as the DFL candidate.
Last time I was cognizant of black voters preferences they were pretty strongly behind Biden. Buttigieg may be able to steal some of Joe's supporters, but he won't get the progressives, so it really doesn't matter if he gets black voter support or not. It's largely only an issue in SC, and only because it is an early primary.
There really isn't much difference between a moderate democrat and the GOP politicians who defend Trump. Both groups think his criminality is okay.
First of all, no focus group can yield scientifically valid information as long as we don’t attempt to make generalizations from it. A focus group is not representative of the entire population. Secondly, the focus group study merely identified that some African Americans are hesitating to vote for a gay man, something that the author does not deny. So homophobia is one of many factors affecting his standing among African Americans, not the only factor.
Thus, I am not sure that people are not “blaming” all Mayor Pete’s “issues” with African Americans to homophobia. The author twisted the meaning of the study and tried to argue against a position that he invented in the first place.
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Did the Buttigieg campaign actually say that theirstruggle to engage the black electorate is due to homophobia, or was there a finding that there is some religious based resistance on the part of older religious based African Americans? That is a point you yourself corroborate. And yes, I believe we find that true within many religions.
To begin with if any campaign were to share all of the input from focus groups regarding their resonance, I firmly believe you would find startling, frightening as well as amusing comments and viewpoints. Most campaigns evaluated responses as to demographics, sampling size, etc. and understand that at best a focus group may advance a point of interest that could deserve further investigation.
You have cherry picked media statements and edited campaign responses to denigrate a campaign and a candidate.
Your need to declare your faith and sexuality tn order to allay any suggestion of prejudice or bias seemed curious, as was your failure to mention the candidate's Douglas Plan, or perhaps you consider that less relevant than the leaked response of non-campaign persons at a focus group.
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Once again, Charles Blow delivers a clear and necessary message. I'm so grateful for this voice at this time.
I mostly agree with this editorial. However, I think Blow missed probably the most significant nuanced factor for Black opposition to Buttigieg. As an African American myself, I really hate Donald Trump. I don't want to see him serve another term. I would vote for just about anyone who could beat Trump, regardless of policies, sex, sexuality, age, haircut, whatever. However, Buttigieg, in my opinion, is less electable than Joe Biden. That's all there is to it. Buttigieg is a remarkably impressive guy, yet he has close to no experience relevant to win the Presidency; and yes, being gay is a factor... since it may turn off some voters who might otherwise join the coalition... or energize some conservatives to vote for Trump who might otherwise stay home. Personally, I don't have a single thing in the world against his being gay, if he wins the nomination, I'll vote for him, just as virtually every other black man and woman who still has the right to vote will do as well.
I think what Blow should have highlighted more is that black voters are remarkably unselfish with their votes, unlike white progressives. Sure, I've got policies I favor... but I'm not putting my preferences ahead of the clear danger that lies before us. I hope they don't vote Elizabeth Warren. Why? Frankly, I think she's unelectable. Personally, I would love to vote for Cory Booker, but I probably won't because he has less chance of beating Trump, and that's all that matters.
Amy Klobuchar is the only choice; Biden sometimes gets confused and Trump will trounce on his mental slowdown.
Klobuchar with either Butiggieg or even Booker would be a better duo.
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By making so many qualifications, Mr. Blow seems to make the case for the argument with which he disagrees.
And I do not support Mr. Buttigieg. I think he's a calculating phony. If he were the nominee, I would vote for him, and once in office, he would be as competent as President Obama -- a neocon apologist for the pre-Trump status quo.
But I still think he's a hypocrite, afraid to speak out aggressively about the gay struggle. Not unlike Mr. Obama's unwillingness to confront racism in any substantial manner.
We could do worse, much worse.
But that's not saying a whole lot.
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Although it is true that blacks are the most reliable Democratic voters, it is also true that any Democratic candidate who for whatever reason falls below the baseline of black support -- not just votes, but turnout -- is almost certainly doomed. It is a legitimate concern, not a blame game. Your article cites numbers that are concerning for that reason. While I agree we need to stop the echoing, calling white Democrats secret racists is a bit much, no? A calm, reasoned article would have been much more effective.
Charles, I agree with you 95+% of the time, but not on this one. It isn't racism to point it out, either.
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If the black church is responsible for much of this "homophobia", why not hold it accountable, along with other extreme religious orders, like evangelicals, southern baptists, pentecostals, etc.? The praise mainstream culture heaps on gospel churches, but not parallel white ones (thankfully), gets pretty tiresome.
Also, referring to black voting behavior as "loyalty" is also a little skewed. African Americans would vote, percentage-wise, in the 90's for anything in human form if it was a Democrat (turnout would drop though). Finally, isn't the low number of participants in the report pretty much a mute point if it's accurate and in line with common opinion?
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As hard as I try to find a difference between myself and other people, I just cannot.
So I decided to stop worrying and love life.
Thanks, Charles. You changed my thinking about this--mainly in your pointing to the greater importance of "discrimination" vs. "homophobia" for religious blacks as voters.
Sadly, i do hold groups (whether racial, ethic, gay, etc.) that have experienced discrimination to a higher standard. I expect that they learn from it and do not do it onto others even if they feel their God wants that.
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Black or white, if a person does not support gay marriage, that does not make that person homophobic. It makes him or her a person who does not support gay marriage, which many Christian faiths do not. And it may make that person someone who does not want a gay couple representing their nation in the White House.
I'm a white, heterosexual woman, but I hope I can have a say in this issue being neither African-American nor gay. (And I am older, in my 70's.) I had the opportunity and good luck to be born and raised in San Francisco where diversity in gender identity, race, and ethnicity were the norm. I am sorry that even so called progressives and/or liberals blame the Black community as being "more" homophobic. But from what I have seen in my personal life, perhaps the most homophobic are the evangelical "Christians" who are very white, and very bigoted. Their righteous tentacles reach to and beyond the gay...to the Black, the Brown, the immigrant, the Muslim, and even the woman. Right now within the extended family of my in-laws - of European ancestry - I am book-ended by a fanatical Christian family unfortunately on one side and our favorite nephew who is married to a wonderful man on the other side. Guess whom we like to spend more time with, and guess whom we try to avoid.
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Will 'homophobia' replace the 'misogyny' cudgel used by corporate Dems in 2016 to silence dissent?
Both certainly exist and are *wrong*, but the transparently cynical way identity politics are used by these shills is not merely wrong but also a proven tactical failure.
I recently had dinner with a group of black attorneys and a judge. I was told Pete’s problem is specific to the south, where politics are frequently organized around the church. Southern black churches, I was told, disapprove of homosexuality.
This is anecdotal but suggests Pete may have tough sledding in key primaries.
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From my own personal experience as a lesbian, the more religious a person is, the more likely it is they will vilify and hate a gay person. And, yes, race is a factor.
Pete Buttigieg is a decent and honorable gay man. Will he be elected? It's doubtful. As a nation, we aren't there yet.
My hope is we will one day accept that a person's sexuality is inherent in their DNA and let them live as fully functioning members of society. We're not quite there yet, but we're on our way.
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Are the commenters here listening to Black people talk about this? (Some are, to be sure.) Get on Black Twitter if you don't have Black family and friends you can talk to about this, but make sure you seek out and listen to Black people on this issue. You'll hear them state *policy* reasons about why they're supporting one candidate or have concerns about another. They're looking at their records, not their skin color.
Pete Buttigieg is, in my opinion, the most promising Democratic candidate to defeat Trump. He is very smartly building his campaign as a marathon run in which one does not want to peak too early, As Mr. Blow pointed out, Pete is addressing his relations with the Black community. So let's be calm and not play the race card immediately on all sides of the issue.
As a progressive, black woman, I do not have a problem with Buttigieg's gayness, but I do believe that fact will hinder him within the black community and across many communities. For the sake of tradition, I highly doubt that a majority of voters are ready to put a gay man in the White House, even if they support LGBTQ rights and gay marriage. I recently came across a commenter who speculated that we are 10 years away from that possibility. Who really knows the time frame but I doubt this is the moment. I would not support Buttigieg due to his moderate politics, corporate financing, age (under 50), and lack of experience. I am committed to putting an older, experienced, bona fide progressive in the White House: Elizabeth Warren or secondarily, Bernie Sanders. As Ayanna S. Pressley said in her endorsement of Elizabeth Warren: “We find ourselves in a fight for the soul of our nation, and I know Elizabeth can win it.” Amen to that!
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Mr. Blow seeks to minimize the difference in attitudes between Blacks and Whites among Democrats by citing the 11% difference in approval rates for gay marriage between Blacks and Whites. According to the Pew survey, 51% of Blacks approve of gay marriage. We know from other sources that the vast majority of Blacks are Democrats. However, the Pew poll also reports that 71% of Democrats approve of gay marriage. This would suggest that support for gay marriage is at or above 80% among White Democrats, which means there is a very substantial difference in attitude toward gay marriage among White and Black Democrats. While this is certainly not the only reason why support is low for Buttigieg among Blacks, and Mr. Blow discusses what some of these other reasons are, it is also appears true that there is a significantly higher percentage of Black Democrats than White Democrats who would be uncomfortable voting for Buttigieg because he is gay.
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With all respect to Mr. Blow, this article is not really about anything. The posited straw man is not even effectively torn down. For me, a 63 years old veteran, Mr. Buttigieg is a very attractive candidate—his being a veteran gives him a leg up, his being a Democratic veteran is even better, and his apparent moderation makes him almost unique in what seems to me to be a weak field of democratic candidates. His policy proposals do not scare me. His gayness is irrelevant. But he apparently, at least as the media tells it, he would not win re-election among black South Bend citizens (who, lest we forget, voted for a gay mayor). I agree with Mr. Blow that we should stop fetishizing our racial differences, and I do not rule out that black Americans may have good reason to question Mr. Buttigieg irrespective of his being gay.
I have lost respect for Mr. Blow. The balanced argument that he could have made: African American attitudes toward homosexuality are a factor in their attitudes toward Mayor Pete - but are being overestimated and can be overcome. But this piece is hysterical and defensive. It’s intellectually dishonest, leading with the weak focus group data and then acknowledging the 11 point gap in African American attitudes toward gay marriage - that’s quantitative data no? What other quantitative data on the subject is he not telling us about? Instead of exploring the issue he attacks White liberals for having the temerity to point out this - apparent fact - yes, African Americans are less positive to gay rights than the American norm. It’s rich coming from someone so ready to point to white racism as a cause for Trumpism. I think he’s right about that. But I’m infuriated by his inability to also address bigotry in his own community in an honest, balanced way and by the defensive tone of the piece. I respect him less.
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Not your best piece, Charles, though I usually appreciate your great work. You point out that black Americans are only 7 to 11 percentage points less approving of gay marriage, but this is incorrect comparison! As you pointed out separately, the majority of white people do not vote Democratic, but the overwhelming majority of black people do.
The correct comparison is therefore support for gay marriage (or rates or candidates) for black Democratic voters (~51%?) versus white Democratic voters (much higher, 80%+).
Your characterization of concern with black homophobia as some sort of patronizing, racist hostility is also very unfair. It makes no sense to try to hide this ball, confuse the statistics, reject the value of focus groups, when black homophobia is just the fact that needs to be grappled with and addressed.
Do note, this is not all defense of Buttigieg, his prospects, etc. Why Democrats and/or black Democrats like Buttigieg or not is an empirical question. But minimizing black homophobia or bashing people concerned with it as racist is not part of the answer.
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As usual, Mr. Blow's column is right on point. My favorite NYT columnist, the best of the best.
There's ample objective attitudinal data regarding homophobia among African-Americans, especially among those living in the south. Same for antisemitism among African-Americans, again, especially among those living in the south.
It's difficult to bring this data up, but it's the reality.
So, does this affect Buttigieg's prospects in the Democratic primary in 2020? Yes. most certainly. And, does this affect Sanders's prospects in the Democratic primary in 2020? Yes, most certainly. Just as it did in 2016.
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Thank you, Mr. Blow. It's time for white people to admit that if black people don't love them, maybe the white people should look in the mirror. Pete Buttigieg's positions suggest strongly that his natural inclination is to be a George H.W. Bush Republican, but today's Republican Party won't have him, so he has to be a Democrat. He not only has a "what have you ever done for people like me" problem, he has a "what will you ever do for people like me" problem. If he really believes, deep down inside, that people of color are as good as he is, let him show it clearly. And, in general, let him campaign on the basis of something other than his affluent white male wonderfulness. The real hurt that he has suffered as a gay man doesn't give him a pass from being a substantial candidate with a platform that will help most Americans.
It's not a race thing it's a church thing. Religious conservatives, whether they be southern Black Methodist pastors or mid-western White Evangelical preachers, tend to not vocally support gay marriage.
But Charles, although the black religious folks might in all probability come around and vote for Buttigieg if he becomes the DEM nominee, the fact is that blacks do have a homophobia problem, just as many whites have a black and minority and homophobia problem.
The reason?
That stuff is taught in the church.
In Chicago, Lorie Lightfoot was confronted with that problem.
In the end, she won every Ward in Chicago, but the issue of her gayness and being married to a woman did manifest itself.
Willie Wilson, who was one of her opponents and who is also a minister expressed opposition to her sexual status until in the end when it became apparent he himself would not become a participant in the run-off, but carried a nice following, endorsed her.
So yes, being gay to some, if not many is a thing.
Are things changing?
Yes.
But it is still there even as more folks realize the 'gay factor' in their own households.
Gayness is not evil nor wrong nor sinful, but it does take time for people to come to terms with the Books of Genesis and Leviticus.
Mr. Blow, this is another great column. And not once did you put an unnecessary comma after an opening "and" or "but," for which I had recently criticized you. Congratulations and many thanks! Keep up your perfection!
This column would have more merit it Mr Blow offered some proof of his premise: that Buttigieg's trouble are solely based on an apparently universal meme that African-Americans dislike gay men. Unsubstantiated by Mr Blow, it's just ranting. Over my adult life (I'm 64), I've known lots of African-Americans who supported LGBT rights and others who opposed them. One of the most fascinating things I've experienced is how some of the opponents could parse opposing discrimination by defining the LGBT community of. I've had black superior court judges in liberal Seattle upbraid me for daring to compare gay rights to civil rights. In North Carolina, ten of the eleven Democratic state senators who crossed the aisle to support HB2 were black, and virtually all cited pressure from congregations for their votes. Mr Blow's column is unworthy of his readers and insulting to LGBT voters like me whose views are nothing like what he gets worked up over.
Mr. Blow, I'm a white, 72-year-old male who resents your characterizing me as a racist because I dare think that religiosity among black voters might turn them off to a gay candidate. In fact, I believe religiosity among all voters could be a detriment to Buttigieg.
But while you're chastising white voters for not understanding black voters, it would add helpful context if you also chastised black voters for their relatively low turnout at the voting booths since Obama left the White House.
Black voters, like any constituency, can have an impact on how others perceive them - by showing up to vote.
Honestly I always thought the whole idea that African Americans didn't like gay people was something that was made up by Law and Order SVU in the episode Low Down and just repeated as fact by viewers until it became part of our culture.
I mean I just did a quick google search for that episode and found 2 blogs, within 3 minutes, about the show saying essentially "I never knew about this until Ice T explained it..."
The premise of this piece is off base. There simply haven’t been a big group of Pete’s supporters blaming black homophobia for Pete’s issues. Over the past months, I have seen Black voters say that Black voters will not support the Mayor. I have seen voters explaining that this is why Mayor Pete supposedly won’t be electable. But you can tell from the context that these are people who are not interested in supporting the Mayor. Never going to say that in a nation of 300+ million that there are zero examples of what Charles Blow says but among the people who have been supporting the Mayor, this is not “a thing.”
I love you Charles. I'm one of your biggest fans. But you're wrong here. You are blinded by something that tweaks a nerve for you, but is real.
This is a religion thing, partially. But I have huge faith in black women. I think they are smart and practical and will choose what's best for them.
That said, does Mr. Buttigieg has problems with black people otherwise? Yes. Absolutely.
But your outrage is misplaced. Throughout the south this will matter because, religion.
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The correct question is how does he appeal to religious people regardless of race. The African Americans that he does not appeal to are the same as the white people he doesn't appeal to.
Stop denying that Black homophobia is a SERIOUS problem which, alas, detrimentally impacts Black gay men with serious consequences. The stigma of HIV/Aids, for example, and being on "the down low" prevents most Black men from getting tested regularly, this account for the largest number of new AIDS cases in the country, and why? During the process of fighting for Black equality (which any decent person would admit has been lacking in this country and must be addressed), many have forgotten that in order to be treated equally one must relinquish preconceived stereotypes about homosexuals being "weak" and "unworthy", feelings prevalent in Black America. I don't care what the roots are to this homophobia but it has ALWAYS existed within the Black community, and IS the main reason that Buttigieg does badly with Black Democrats, to the detriment of the Democratic Party I hasten to add. I’ve had many tens of Black gay men confirm this to me during my regular interactions with them so don’t deflect by hiding behind a specious argument about racism!
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I await the day when human beings aren't pre-occupied with wondering and judging about how, and with whom, other consenting adults are achieving their orgasms.
And, of course, that weird creepy pre-occupation is justified among some of all races by "Christianity" and never mind that, at least in my reading of the New Testament gospels, homosexuality isn't mentioned, but love, mercy and forbearance are, three things white Evangelicals eagerly extend to Trump.
There is now a President of the United States, who is bigoted, ignorant, lazy and dangerously full of fear of his fellow Americans.
He signed a tax law that made the rich richer and stuck the poor with the bill. He's gutting health care. He paid-off a sex worker just after his third wife gave birth to his fifth child. He's mocked the disabled and salved his personal and political insecurities before a group of children, the Boy Scouts of America.
We are in the midst of a national, existential, emergency. The last thing I'm thinking of is whether the next US President is straight, gay, bi, furry, animal, mineral, or vegetable.
ANY of the Dem candidates would be a vast, significant improvement over Trump.
Finally, an interesting column, Charles. I take what you say to be true. Many religious people have problems with gayness. Until recently such behavior was considered sinful. It is still hard to square gayness with many religious teachings. On the other hand, I think two things are true. Black people vote in their own interest. As they should, given the history of blacks in America. If they believe Pete will be an ally, they will vote for him, if not, not. Second, in my experience, Black people, generally, will judge you based on your actions, not your color, background, Or beliefs. That’s my white privileged, two cents. 😉
Pete’s in the four-way tie for the lead (within the standard error of measurement) in IA in the latest Quinnipiac poll. He’s doing well in NH too. Be open to surprises.
Sorry, Charlie, but the black church has many overlaps with the primitive christianity of whites in the Bible Belt. If we cannot admit that, then we cannot share ideas. There are other elements to be sure - but the primitive christianity in some parts of the black church cannot be ignored. It is not racist to examine something carefully.
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Mr. Blow,
While I agree that no group is more hostile to gays than white evangelicals, I’ve lived long enough to agree with Rep. Clyburn. Why is it hard for you to admit it is a generational issue?
Don’t worry, we will pass. Now ask yourself why is the African American community failing to support Sen. Harris? Is it because she was a prosecutor and therefore seen as in league with the police or is she not black enough? Is this a racist myth too? And Sen. Booker?
I’m 66 and white. I like Joe Biden but have serious doubts he can win. My next choice is Harris but I also have doubts she can win. Could she with the support of minority groups? I can’t say for certain but she wouldn’t be closing offices if she did. I’m pretty sure of that.
Charles,
If this person is our nominee, I will again, like in 2016, sit out next election.
You doth protest too much, Charles.
I'm not sure homophobia will be the operative reason if Buttigieg is not the candidate but one thing is for sure, the black vote is absolutely critical to Democrats.
Any excuse not to vote for a Democratic candidate will be completely irresponsible if it means Trump is reelected.
It is said that the Democratic candidate might have had a chance in the gubernatorial race in Mississippi if blacks had turned out.
That vote may have swayed the 2016 election, as well.
Let's not worry about the few people who might make such a momentous decision based on narrow minded reasons.
The black vote has been so compromised by the GOP but we need every single one so if you want to rail about something, just get the vote out!
first of all, you can't pit your personal opinion against a carefully conducted focus group. and 24 is, by the way, a large sample for a focus group (likely groups).
second: "Is there homophobia in the black community? Of course. Is it higher in the black community than in other communities? It is."
so there's homophobia in black communities that is higher than it is in other communities. the focus group and you, after all, agree.
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Pete Buttigieg, as mayor of South Bend, has struggled to deal with issues of importance to the black community of South Bend. To quote a New York Times article covering a police shooting of a black man this past June:
Policing problems in South Bend came to national attention on June 16, when a white sergeant fatally shot a 54-year-old black resident, Eric Logan. The officer’s body camera was not turned on, which was widely seen as a sign of lax standards in the department. Mr. Buttigieg found himself flying home again, regularly, to face the fury of some black citizens and the frustrations of many others.
Full article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/30/us/politics/pete-buttigieg-south-bend-police.html
I think this kind of thing matters more than sexuality, frankly.
I feel Mr Blow's commentary comes across as overly defensive. One can find examples of the 24 hour news programs' talking heads saying something stupid about anything one wishes to find. The reality as I see it is that yes, the black vote is very important in the Democrat primaries and sure, he does not have a long history of working on issues specific to African Americans, per se. But it is also true, as I've seen in talking with my circle of AA friends, that he is dismissed unelectable because of his sexual orientation. Not that THEY would hold it against him of course, but that black folks just won't vote for him, because of that fact. I truly believe if he can get the opportunity to address these issues in a fair and open minded exchange, he will be shown to be the best option to run against the disgrace we currently have occupying the highest office in the land.
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I have enjoyed Mr. Blow's columns which typically make me think about an issue. This and hyper link to the Advocate article made me think about the author.
I think Mr. Blow ought to remember that no subset of the human race is immune from the faults that other subsets demonstrate. He should recall that (wish I could vote for him a third time) President Obama wasn't exactly out in front on issues of LGBTQ rights when he started his term in office, but he got there. And Mr. Obama, I believe, disappointed many in the black community by suggesting that not all of the issues facing the black community could be pinned on exogenous factors, like racism.
So it isn't a trope to suggest that black evangelicals might hold the very same homophobic views as white evangelicals. It is the opposite because it equates whites and blacks on an issue, both of which groups are connected by similar underlying religious views DESPITE racial differences.
It was sad to read how Mr. Blow seems to cope with life: "It is tiresome and disappointing to constantly have to defend yourself not only from people who are openly hostile to you, but also from those who feign friendship but are secretly hostile to you." Really? Do you believe that those who are your friends, but disagree with you on an issue like this are feigning friendship and are in fact secretly hostile? Do you believe you are so important that some people need to feign friendship? I doubt it.
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This whole episode has been so tiresome.
The major drivers of homophobia are religiosity and age, not race. Are Blacks generally more religious than Whites? Yes. But does that speak to greater intrinsic homophobia among Blacks? No.
Has Black antipathy toward LGBTQ issues seen a rapid and significant decline? Yes.
And folks need to catch up on the Prop 8 nonsense: initial exit polling indicated a whopping 70% of Blacks voted for the initiative (after an anti-Prop 8 campaign that every postmortem agreed all but ignored Black communities), later data showed that number to be around 58% or 6% more than the 52% of ALL who voted for Prop 8 (59% for Latino voters). Also, Black voters were only 7% of the vote, yet they were assigned an outsized blame for Prop 8's passage. Fold religion back in: this is where we see the danger of complicated things being over-simplified: "Among those who attended church weekly, African-Americans support for Prop 8 was LOWER than amongst any other ethnic group."
Most importantly, are Blacks funding and actively pursuing anti-LGBTQ policy efforts here and abroad? No, that would be Whites (Evangelicals, Mormons). Are Black legislators generally the most reliable votes on pro-LGBTQ legislation? Yes. Do Black people primarily vote for them? Yes.
Fret about "Black Homophobia" all you want; I submit that if Pete has 99 problems, Black Homophobia ain't really one, 'cuz when it comes down to it, we get it done (see: Annise Parker, Lori Lightfoot).
Whenever I hear the word "trope," I reach for my ESC key.
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This column expresses a clear and bold point through Blow’s usual straightforwardness, which, at the same time, unfolds quite complicated political and social constellations of today to explain.
The major focus is on a white gay man (Buttigieg, D candidate), police officers‘ reaction against black people to justify why officers tend to act as such according to Buttigieg’s intellect, and a narrative followed as seemingly politically motivated.
Added on were details on homophobia, directed both to white and black men, in which Blow, however, implied there should be no causal nexus as simple as focus groups may want to prove via their surveys from a small number of respondents. I found this is the hidden strength in the column as the most.
My adding is that she or he is scared by black people for this and that reasons is a very convenient and expedient narrative which can be made everywhere for whatever purposes. It is empirical on my part to say this. Those “this and that reasons” could be used as initial steps for further fictions to be deployed. Here, basically I went back to Blow’s point.
I like Buttigieg, in fact believe him the all around finest candidate in a field of fine candidates.
I am not sure what Charles is angry at. The unreliability of focus groups? Black influencers who thing a gay candidate has a problem with some blacks? Whites who think the same thing? He seems angry with Democrats, not the Republicans who will come after a LGBTQ nominee with torches, pitchforks, and ancient revilings.
Or is he angry at the "Meme," the blabbings of talking heads on all-news shows, the meanderings of pundits looking for something to write about? I think this last is really the source of his upset. If so, believe me, every aspect of Buttigieg's challenged and challenging campaign will be dissected, not least the need for the Democratic candidate to attract the black vote in huge numbers, which I see as an acknowledgement of the value of this critical voting bloc, not a slam against it.
Pete needs to do work among traditional Democratic constituencies, working class folks, women, and, yes, African Americans. His sexuality will be an issue because he is gay and because bias against gays exists, not because a focus group invented it.
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This is an interesting and thoughtful analysis, which is exactly what is not needed right now. Nuance and subtlety are irrelevant. Here's what's relevant: people of conscience want to see Trump removed through impeachment, but that process is DOA in the Senate. There is only one chance to remove Trump from office. That chance comes in November 2020.
The 2020 Presidential election will be *very* close. the turnout of Black voters will be, as it was in 2016, the difference between electing and rejecting Trump. In a close election, many factors will more than account for the difference.
But: if Black voters come out in large numbers, then the Democrat will win Florida, North Carolina, Michigan, Nevada, Ohio, and Wisconsin -- as Barack Obama did in 2008 -- and Trump will be gone.
Trump is an inveterate racist and White supremacist. Black people have the power to remove him. Do we really care if the Democrat is gay?
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Vote blue, does not matter who. Use this mantra to rally people of all stripes everywhere. There’s no such thing as red and blue states, everywhere there are people of all stripes
Shapes colors genders....Get out the vote. It does not matter who two are on the Democratic Party ticket, they are all really awesome and the democrats will collectively do the country massive GOOD. Please media folks, please urge people to vote blue. Don’t divide anyone anymore.
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I do not blame black homophobia for Mayor Pete’s lack of support from the African American community. I grew up in South Bend, where my Dad was a Notre Dame professor. ND was progressive in the ‘70’s when I was an undergrad. South Bend was/is a segregated, financially depressed city. Pete has had challenges—the first black police chief neglected to inform him that there was an FBI investigation due to potentially illegal taping. This is still being litigated, but no doubt there are racist comments on those tapes. An unarmed black man was killed by police. The cops body cam was turned off—and Pete mentions this every time it is discussed. Again, there is an ongoing investigation. Pete instituted bias training and neighborhood groups. From what I can see he is trying very hard to do the right things. He has actual proposals to attack systemic racism. Does he have a long track record? No, he’s too young. But I give him the benefit of the doubt. The stakes are high for black Americans. I understand wanting “tried and true.” I think everyone should at least listen to Pete. I for one, am a fan.
Not sure whom Blow is talking about. He repeatedly berates 'white liberals' while mostly quoting Black people. Mayor Pete is not the "liberal" in the race (those would be Sanders and Warren, Sanders being very popular with younger Black folks). He is, however, an empty suit who has next to nothing to offer Black people of any sexual orientation.
"Pretending those hurdles don’t exist, and instead assigning the blame to black homophobia, hurts Buttigieg’s campaign more than helps it."
The people quoted do seem to be those who would in any case seek to hurt Buttigieg's campaign.
Perhaps that is why they are doing it, to hurt him.
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As a white, northern liberal Democrat, I would never vote for Buttigieg because of his abysmal record in South Bend with regard to race relations and his police force. Eloquence does not count over experience. We need a president who, regardless of identity, will openly advocate for progressive measures to address injustices perpetrated against minorities: restoring voting rights, addressing public school inequality, restructuring financial systems to stimulate upward mobility, addressing (and removing) white supremacy in police forces. Pete is not this person.
Pete's the Biden insurance policy, as the NYT was nice enough to inform us about months ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-party.html
He's a centrist Democrat hoping that his non-straight-white-maleness will paper over that fact. In that respect, very much like Obama. And Hillary, for that matter. It's the usual corporate-Dem move, and we've all seen it since forever.
That's all that's going on here. That's why you see helpful advice given out to Pete (and others with the sole exception of Sanders, but no longer Warren, whose usefulness in Stopping Sanders was overplayed) by the NYT every chance it gets.
The people who run the NYT literally think that all they need to do is better market a Hillary type and you'll all fall for it. They have history on their side; not a dumb move on their part, but one I think may not work this time.
Sanders, for sure, and Warren, mostly, are existential threats to one class only: those who've run the Democratic Party since the late 70s-ish; certainly since Bill Clinton. That's it. Their policies will help the vast majority, and the rich, et al, won't even feel much of a bite....cuz they're RICH! My wife and I can easily pay more taxes so that, like, other Americans can, like, eat well and have healthcare.
No one wants to come out in public and say, "Yeah, I know, but I don't care: I'm a vicious, selfish monster." Hard to admit in private to oneself. So, the lies are welcomed with open arms.
Sorry, Charlie. I think Clyburn is right.
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I will support whichever Democratic candidate runs against Donald Trump. But my vote in the primaries is going to Pete Buttigieg.
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So why do you think Buttigieg hasn't found success at appealing to black voters?
I'd much rather see a counterargument than a denial. I won't pretend to understand your culture as an outsider looking in, so I would appreciate your insight.
oh please. Black evangelical voters have been very similar to white evangelical voters on a host of issues, including LGBTQ rights. This isn't a trope, its' reality. I campaigned against Prop 8. I remember.
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I’m a white, cisgender, non religious woman and I don’t want his sexuality to be front and center either. I don’t want anyone’s sexuality to be front and center. Maybe the members of the focus group agree.
I respect your opinion on this Charles, but black homophobia exists. More in the elder generations. We are coming together more in the younger generations. But to say that it is a trope that is racist? It is not racist. It is a fact. Let's admit it and understand that for many in the black community -- especially the black religious communities, this exists. Mayor Pete is trying to look past this, no matter what. I truly believe that he is trying to make inroads to community. He has a lot of work to do. But many elder black voters will see his sexuality as an impact to their vote.
The "Gay agenda" is in some places seen as a threat to the family.
I think we are getting beyond that, but remember that the family is the core institution of society. The privileged could have their flings with drugs, sex, and rock & roll and still find their way in our society. For the institutionally disenfranchised minorities, especially blacks, the family may be their only safety net. So fears here are not totally misplaced.
Methinks that Daniel Patrick Moynihan was onto something in 1965.
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I have two words for you Mr. Blow: Prop 8. Enough said.
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Facing reality head-on is not a racist trope. Just remember California election day November 2008. Record numbers of black voters came to the polls to support the first African American major party Presidential Candidate and also voted to overturn the California Supreme Court's marriage equality decision. That unholy alliance with the Mormon and Catholic churches, along with other anti-gay hate groups, put my own marriage to my partner of 17 years into legal limbo until the Supreme Court finally - barely! - cleaned up the mess.
I understand your defensiveness about this, but I really don't think it's fair to lump me and gay people like me into one bundle and declare we are promoting a racist trope. It's more complicated than that.
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@Chi Gordy What you fail to recall or perhaps don’t realize is that CNN reported that blacks in California supported Prop 8 (repeal of marriage equality) by an overwhelming margin and that blacks single-handedly helped it pass. Months later, CNN corrected themselves and admitted that blacks voted for/against prop 8 at the same rates as Asian and whites. There were 2 or 3 percentage points of difference. A prominent gay spokesperson who had publicly blamed black people for passage of prop 8 had the courage to publicly apologize to black people for his mistake.
Let me offer you an anecdote of how homophobia really works within the black community. My 90yo very religious mom believes homosexuality is a sin, but she has never disparaged a gay person and she did in fact support gay marriage. It is a lot more complex than whites are willing to acknowledge.
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well said @Chi Gordy!
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@Chi Gordy Amen.
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The most serious issue with identity politics is that it leads to voters asking the wrong question when deciding which candidates they prefer. A vital democracy ought not to be asking its citizens "Who do you like?" but rather should be asking each of them, "What do you want?"
We might like Mayo Pete's sharp young man who can articulate his thoughts in a compelling way personality but Do We Want his corporate consultancy at McKinsey, an elite outfit where GOP types advise the wealthy on matters of tax and regulation avoidance, background?
Paraphrasing Dr. Freud "What do we (he said women) want??
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Well argued, Mr. Blow.
The "black homophobia narrative," as you name it, distracts us from focusing more carefully on the critical importance of African-American turnout. Much ink has been spilled about disaffected older white male voters. Far too little has been said about what will draw voters in the most loyal Democratic constituency, African-Americans, to the polls.
According to a 2017 Pew Research Center article, black voter turnout declined from 66.6% in 2012 to 59.6% in 2016. Reverse that, and all the MAGA hats will just be a bad dream.
Is now the time to abandon identity politics? That has intellectual appeal to some, but it doesn't recognize our current social reality in America. A 2020 Democratic campaign that focuses solely on economic issues might just leave us scratching our heads again, wondering why so many people voted "against their interests." Again.
Democratic candidates would be better advised to spend whatever time it takes to understand the issues that matter to African-Americans, and to stand in solidarity with them.
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The Democratic primary voter is going to have to choose between the way things should be and the way thing are, and in many dimensions including race, sexuality, healthcare, taxation. I would like to see either Mayor Pete and Elizabeth Warren as President, and I will vote for Joe Biden.
The excessively defensive tone of this piece is striking. While it would be a mistake to ascribe all of Buttigieg's challenges with gaining African-American support to homophobia, religiously-based anti-gay bias and compensatory hyper-masculinity stemming from centuries of humiliating oppression are elements that clearly exist in the African-American community.
Bias is a human foible to which all of us are prone, regardless of whether we've been a victim of it ourselves. The cause of justice isn't advanced by willful blindness.
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I haven’t encountered this narrative myself (and I am fairly described as a politically active white male liberal), but I am somewhat disengaged from the weird fantasy shadow play world of social media. That said, the narrative seems to me to indulge in reasoning fallacies common to that medium:
1. Pete Buttigieg’s candidacy hasn’t inspired widespread African-American support.
2. Support for Pete Buttigieg is hampered by homophobia.
3. Ergo, (2j is the cause of (1).
Rubbish. There are a myriad of reasons African-Americans haven’t yet warmed to Buttigieg. Like any candidate regardless of sexual orientation, ideology, program, record, style and demeanor, familiarity, etc. are all in the mix. Homophobia no doubt plays a role here as it does across racial and demographic categories; that is not unique to African-Americans. Buttigieg’s sexual orientation is unique among Presidential candidates, but every candidate brings a unique self that presents different advantages and challenges in gaining a majority. That is what happens in a democracy of individuals; each candidate’s task is to make their unique jagged profile work for them.
Charles,
I tend to see any religiosity as a problem - not just black religiosity. And while I like Mayor Pete, I don't necessarily think he's ready for prime time.
Black voters - religious or not - tend to be Democrats - which is probably what being the underdog for 400 years or so will do to you. I just hope that they and other Dems (esp. young people of all colors and persuasions) come out and vote this time.
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And your point is?
When I listen to Pete Buttigieg speak, I hear clarity and vision. He does not ramble or spew. He is an electable individual. He has a sense of what our nation needs and that at least to me, has absolutely nothing to do with his way of life. Instead, it is most likely well formed by his way of life and yet, does not interfere with his promise.
It is clear that you do not prefer Mr. Buttigieg as the next Democratic nominee. That would be a pity. He alone among others could potentially heal us, as a nation so to say.
If the African American Community wishes to demonize him, my big question is, who is missing the point?
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Buttigieg, to remain a viable candidate, must begin to attract younger voters -- 18 to 24 -- and black voters. To date, he has failed to do so. Younger voters support Warren and Sanders. Black voters support Biden because of his well-known support of President Obama. I see no polls correlating being gay with Buttigieg's lack of support among black voters. To claim such a connection,including among Evangelical blacks, is mistaken,imho, but not racist. Though I lean toward Warren, I am becoming more persuaded that she has gone to far on the spectrum to defeat Trump in November, 2020. I also believe Biden would be a mediocre opponent to Donald Trump -- contrary to Buttigieg. I deeply hope that Buttigieg can begin to motivate those young and black voters who did not vote in 2016 to vote in 2020 and to vote for him.
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I truly think this entire conversation is going in the wrong direction. I have no doubt that some people of every stripe are bothered by Buttigieg's sexual preference. But,that fact certainly is not affecting the choice of an entire people. The groups that Pete is not reeling in are those that typically represent the most pragmatic voters. They want to win and get things done, not just make a point. The doubt I see when he is speaking with these groups centers around age and experience, not who he wakes up with in the morning. I think he would be getting much more traction with all of these groups if he were running for governor of Indiana, rather than top post.
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If I were African-American, I would focus on Pete Buttigieg's treatment of his African-American constituents during his eight years as mayor (he is currently still mayor of South Bend, Indiana; his term ends in January 2020). He has already admitted to failure to diversify his police force.
Expansive campaign policy proposals are fine, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
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If black voters stay home again like in 2016 and Trump is re-elected, you'll see a new version of the democratic party emerge. One that places less emphasis on criminal justice reform, affirmative action, and other issues that benefit voters who can't be bothered to support our national slate of candidates.
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I support and lean towards Buttigieg as a presidential candidate, not because he is openly gay (I also believe we have already had at least one gay president), but because of his centrist views, his experience serving his country in the military, and his experience as a mayor and fulfilling the executive role (something the current president does not have). He is also undeniably talented in terms of his aptitude for speaking and language skills (a far improvement over the current incumbent and a few of the other candidates), his educational background, and yes his youth is a plus (remember JFK?). The issues we face over the next decade or two are extremely complex and are best resolved by talented, young leaders that can bridge the generational gaps that currently prevent their resolution.
Why is he not polling well with the black electorate? Face time. He needs to spend more time with non-White citizens and learn what their concerns and issues are and how he can best address them and begin to articulate real plans to meet their needs and to put an end to the growing tide of white supremacy and racism afflicting this country under the trump administration. Good luck Pete, we need you now.
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I have some friends who are really taken with Mayor Pete. Some are older people who, I think, see Buttigieg as the charming and intelligent son they never had, Others like his non-right-wing religious sentiments.
HOWEVER, I have two objections.
One is that the presidency is no job for an amateur. I'd like a presidential candidate to have some experience in Washington, whether in the House, the Senate, or someone's Cabinet, before tackling the most important job in the country. In the popular imagination, not being a "Washington insider" is a good thing, but in real life, it means arriving with no clue about how things really work.
The other is his support from wealthy donors and Wall Street PACs, precisely the socially liberal and fiscally conservative contingent whose timidity or heel-dragging on needed economic and social reforms has harmed the Democratic Party's credibility among middle-class and working-class voters.
I think he would make a great Secretary of Veterans' Affairs, or perhaps a Senator from Indiana, but not president, at least not this time around.
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I strongly agree with Charles Blow's excellent discussion on this point. But in the face of this incontrovertible argument, why are black leaders appearing in the media and expressing their concern about Mayor Pete's sexual orientation? I have seen a dozen interviews and writings where these leaders--political, religious, and civic, say that older black citizens are uncomfortable with him. And then there are the polls that seem to support this view. Cory Booker, for example, equivocates and tap dances whenever this question is brought up (of course he is a potential rival for the Democratic nomination). Charles Blow is the first full-throated questioning about this trope from a prominent black intellectual leader that I have seen. I hope that others will now be courageous enough to follow.
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There is some sloppy thinking in the article about religion and culture. White evangelicals oppose marriage equality at a much higher rate that main-stream white Christians. I think the strong cultural/political opposition of Evangelicals shapes their faith, rather than the other way. That there is a higher number of black evangelicals in the black community than white evangelicals does not, in itself, explain higher percentages of homophobia in the black community. Black evangelicals are much more likely to support increased support for public education than white evangelicals. Simply being "evangelical" does not alone explain political positions. Cultural values, fears, prejudices are reproduced from generation to generation - religion is not the sole vehicle for sustaining culture. That being said, I'm sure some investigation will correlate age with homophobia, in all demographics. Thank you Mr. Blow for this thought-provoking (though a bit sloppy and broadly painted) article. I'd suggest that your paragraph on "the tribal nature of gay culture" be unpacked a bit.. it's so full of easy conclusions and straw man villains. It's beneath your usual sharp critique.
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For myself, as well as many others, electability is the key issue. Getting rid of Trump s paramount. While I have interest & opinions on other issues, policy positions by the candidates are a distant 2nd consideration for the 2020 election.
That being said, we are very much aware of the crucial importance of the black vote in electing a Democratic president. While I don't suspect that black voter will lock to Trump over the issue of homosexuality, there is concern that they may not turn out in the numbers that'll be needed.
I don't consider this as an attack on black homophobia. I think of it as highlighting the importance of the black vote in removing 45 from office.
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This is what I think--I think someday we all should get over a long list that singles people out LGBTQ. Maybe "S" should be put into this category. Straight? People are people. We now know that there are great differences among people who call themselves male or female. So when will we get over and just base are feelings about people in terms of not their sexual proclivities,but who and how they are as human beings.
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Buttigieg appeals most to white, upper class, educated voters and their donors. It may be his class (Harvard graduate) and white male privilege that is the stumbling block. Does he look like he understands the struggles of single young mothers of any race who work for minimum wage?
He is a darling of the Wall Street crowd and gets lots of money from that quarter. (He referred to individual donations as "pocket change". If all you can send him is pocket change, keep it. He doesn't need it as much as you do.) They can count on him to leave their privilege alone. He doesn't threaten them like Bernie or Warren with a raise in their taxes. He doesn't ask them to shoulder their fair share of the burden for the common good. He wants to be them.
That is the bigger reason Buttigieg struggles with the working class and probably the reason he struggles with minorities.
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@nora m - or maybe he's struggling with the working class and minorities because he hasn't promised free healthcare, college, monthly stipend, etc..
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@nora m
Buttigieg will not get the college educated women's vote that was the swing vote in 2018 and will be again in 2020.
Pete Buttigieg’s sexual orientation was newsworthy when he was elected mayor and when he first announced his candidacy for president. I don't understand why so many articles, both opinion and news, still bring up the fact that he is gay. We don't see continuing observations of the other candidates marital status, children, etc. in reports on their campaign activities and policies. It seems to me that it is the media, including the NYT, that keeps his private life to the forefront.
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This is a bit of a straw man.
There is no blame to be assigned to the Buttigieg campaign for conducting focus groups. All campaigns do it. And whether they are "scientific" or not, or whether they cover controvercial topics or not, are irrelevant. It is upntpnthe campaigns to decide how they are used.
I don't think anyone in his campaign is making an argument that black South Carolinians are more or less likely than others to be resistant to voting for a gay man. That the campaign may be seeking ways to reach black voters and address lgbtq issues ahoukd be lauded, not condemned.
In my experience, people of color are actually more open to discussion of the topic than white evangelicals. This is why religious black folks should be listened to.
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Normally I find studies, stats, and rational perspectives useful and somewhat enlightening.
But when race, religion, and sexuality enter the picture, especially when stirred together in a political pot with everyone using their own individual spoon --- well, there's not much of an objective truth emerging.
As I told my kids when all these topics emerged day after day at the dinner table, year after year -- I believe each and every one of you, respect all of you, and hope none of you think you possess the whole truth. So, talk on but don't leave a mess.
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@SGK So you like stats until they challenge your existing views or make you uncomfortable? The whole point of gathering stats is to challenge your current knowledge and ensure it's accurate. If Black voters are homophobic then they're homophobic, whether or not it's PC to point that out. Don't be like Charles Blow, subject your opinions to the crucible of science.
@SGK Now that's parenting! Congrats.
Using statistical and anecdotal methods, it is political strategists' and pollsters' job to provide candidates with the data that will give that candidate the best chance of victory in the election. The bottom line should not be if a particular demographic or social group "likes" the candidate, but when in the voting booth which candidate will the voter choose - or will they stay away. Pete Buttigieg knows his sexuality and questionable record with the South Bend African American community are his chief vulnerabilities. It looks to me that he is looking to decouple those issues even if the data suggests they have morphed together.
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Buttigieg has a problem winning African American votes in the primaries, but if nominated he will overwhelmingly carry the African American vote in the general. Similar breakdowns can be found by reviewing how Obama did not win the gay vote until he was nominated and then swept it in the general election.
Obama did not see the gay marriage issue clearly at first. Buttigieg recently suffered a setback in a police officer-related shooting of a black man. The body camera was not turned on, and the review was clouded, but like Obama and gays, the ship will right itself eventually.
The context of a persecuted minority that African Americans share with the LGBTQ community makes reconciliation inevitable.
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@Tom Ditto
The white LBGTQ community has not been persecuted and shares nothing with the black community. Please stop the false equivalence.
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Clinton overwhelmingly carried the Black vote in the general election in 2016. The problem is that without Obama on the ballot, Black turnout plummeted.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/12/black-voter-turnout-fell-in-2016-even-as-a-record-number-of-americans-cast-ballots/
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@Tom Ditto You will find that most people of color with roots in this country going back prior to 1964 find the comparison of the LGBTQ experience with our own to be very inaccurate, and many will actually find it quite offensive. Argue with that all you want, but it's simply reality.
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I'm neither black nor gay, but I am extremely concerned with defeating Trump in the next election. We need to stop talking about nationwide statistics and recognize that the only electability that matters is electability in the 5 or 6 conservative swing states. The entire election lies in the hands of a few identifiable groups in those states: e.g. conservative independent voters in Wisconsin, urban black voters in Pennsylvania, etc. Mr Blow acknowledges that black homophobia is real, but then claims that anyone who considers that fact in their election analysis must also "see black people as a blight on our big cities, pathologically prone to violence." That is a non sequitur intended to shut down further discussion.
Nominating a candidate who will win the popular vote but lose the election should not be an option for anyone who cares about civil rights, women's rights or climate change. However much I want to vote for a gay candidate, a candidate of color or a female candidate I have decided to postpone that goal in deference to the existential goal of defeating Trump. That is not racism or homophobia, it is realism.
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@ML Thank you very much! I hope the Democrats wake up and listen....
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Homophobia, or any other type of phobia, is a consistent, irrational and extreme fear about virtually everyone or every object that causes anger, hatred and violence. Defusing it mandates more than a lifetime of work by all people on earth.
Yet that still won't be enough. Sad, but true. The solution begins with understanding and the courage to channel outrage into positive action forever.
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I am a heterosexual white male.
I do not support Mayor Pete for president because i do not think being mayor of a city of 100K gives him sufficient experience to be president of a country of over 300 m.
Mayor Pete's sexual orientation is irrelevant.
A president to be effective must have excellent ideas AND the ability to get his program enacted.
Carter had good ideas but failed as a leader.
I do not think anyone should vote for Mayor Pete because of his homosexuality.
I do not think anyone should vote against Mayor Pete because of his homosexuality.
Similarly no one should vote for or against a female candidate
[whether heterosexual or homosexual] just because she is female.
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But beyond this, Buttigieg apparently did very little, in six years, to improve police violence against African Americans in his own town. People are naturally suspicious that his sudden concern about the situation seems pretty opportunistic. I'm not saying that Mayor Pete is totally unsympathetic, but he seems quite ambivalent about the black community. There is a shallowness to his professed concern, that's hard to hide, and probably more troubling to a lot of people than anything else.
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I read and re-read this opinion piece and I see nothing to suggest that Clyburn is mistaken. I know that many black leaders don't like that black Democrats are characterized as more homophobic than their white counterparts because the term "homophobia" is rightly seen as a pejorative. And in a race between a Republican with multiple marriages and a history of adultery, and a Democrat in a single same-sex monogamous marriage, the importance of the Democrat's sexuality might fade. But that is not the current situation.
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@syfredrick The thing is... if Buttigieg speaks to the issues that concern us, black people won't vote against their own interests -- unlike how many in the supposedly more accepting mainstream would.
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@syfredrick James Clyburn can only speak on behalf of blacks he know who are homophobic. To generally state that elderly blacks are is simply inaccurate and negligent. I grew up in Mississippi where the government controlled by white Republican so-called Christians are openly hostile toward gays and have passed legislation to deny their human rights. Blacks are lining up behind Elizabeth Warren, who is a white heterosexual. They have chosen to support Biden over Harris and Booker. Go figure.
So, the focus shouldn't be on elderly blacks because at the end of the day, they will always support the Democratic candidate.
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@Liz But will they vote for one who is Gay or will they simply stay at home and not vote?
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At last, an article with a realistic orientation and one in which the stereotyping is NOT front and center. If Buttigieg is the kind of live wire which Barack Obama turned out to be, and if he continues to push his plans for the black communities, then I have no doubt that black voters would turn out for him if he ends up being the nominee of the Democratic Party. I hope he is recruiting African Americans in his election committee. In fact I would like to see some reporting on this aspect of his campaign.
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formernewyorker, generally agree with your assessment; Butigieg would be a great Vice President but there is deep, deep disdain for gay people by older people in the black community.
I am black, I have seen it all my life; there is a slow evolution due to many, but not all young, black folks.
Yes, I love Bernie, supported him in 2015-16 but he has now followed the super liberal Warren model for open borders and free everything.
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Mr. Blow's outrage is exactly what gives Trump his backers. Stereotypes exist for a reason. You can address them only after they are identified. And you can't identify them if you can't speak them. But Trump's supporters sure can. And this is an old, old stereotype that does seem to have validity, at least in my decades of observation (although less and les!). Different education levels and therefore classes seem to have a balancing influence. Does Mr. Blow also deny homophobia in the NFL and NBA and MLB? It is IMPROVING, but it's there.
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@Andy Well said.
Do you remember Proposition 8 in California? It was a ballot initiative in 2008 supporting the “defense of marriage”. I believe the African-American community was one of the highest demographic groups in favor of Prop 8. That wasn’t a focus group. That was the reality of the voting booth. Whatever your personal beliefs, Mr. Blow, evidence suggests the contrary.
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I have a real problem with the media and political parties trying to split and divide the population by race, class, sexual orientation, where they live, etc. the concept that these groups (and combinations of them) vote in blocs is absurd and impossible to prove and unnecessarily divisive.
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His lack of support has little to do with his orientation, except maybe among a bigoted few. Rather, he lacks genuine experience at the national level -- or really, any level -- that qualifies him for the Presidency. He'd be best served to run for Congress, or Senate, or even Governor of Indiana before aiming for the Presidency. He has a nice resume -- Harvard, Army (for a while), small-town town mayor -- but not even nearly enough to get my vote. Would he be better than Trump? Oh, absolutely. But that is such a low bar as to be laughable. He needs practical national or State-level experience. That's why he isn't getting more than boutique support from a niche.
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My preference for Warren is for her overcoming adversity. Pete was born privileged and was willing to be part of the killing machine, albeit not in infantry.
1