If there are millions of Americans who are struggling to find good paying jobs, why are we still allowing millions of immigrants into this country? I think it has to do with keeping wages lower and providing future voters for a certain political party that seems more interested in the plight of foreigners over US citizens.
44
This has little to do with elections and EVERYTHING to do with employers of any political leaning who want to reap enormous profits at minimal employer costs. Please refer to the guest worker staff at Mar-A-Lago.
77
@M. Gessbergwitz On first glance this argument feels right and obvious. But the end result of immigration on surface-level supply and demand isn't the big fish here. The economic situation of jobless and the bottom HALF is driven by many factors that reduce bargaining power: mandatory non-compete job contracts, lack of single-payer national health care, complete at-will job terms with zero protection. Not to mention the ethos of greed and amorality at the very red top, along with the endemic financial abuse levied by state/local blue machines.
Legalization/amnesty for undocumented will help everybody: The number of legal visas for food service workers, gardeners, etc. is kept artificially low, while employers lobby so that they don't have to truly verify legal status. So, at the bottom end there is very little bargaining power.
Legalization--not a crackdown--would push up the wage floor for everybody.
15
@M. Gessbergwitz One has nothing to do with another. An average looking woman in her fifties who keeps a great written log could have worked as a bookkeeper or secretary through the mid 80's, let's say. Now, it's all about the computer and looking good (young and/or sexy). This woman couldn't do the jobs that immigrants do, deli, construction, sewing, cooking, cleaning, "elder care," Uber, meatpacking...
22
Although the “great” jobs reports are obviously a scam and based on assumptions that went out with tail fins and poodle skirts, one thing we can all be thankful for: the Trump administration seems to have created the greatest boom for lawyers, especially criminal attorneys, in the history of shysterdom. Every day it is reported that Trump himself, his close cronies, and employees past and present, are engaging legal teams.
14
Articles like this one absolutely make my blood boil. Companies pour out the quicksand and then blame workers when the fall prey to it. They create the very situations so many people find themselves in.
Looking askance at someone who has a resume filled with contract jobs when that’s often the only type of work offered - are you kidding me? Raising a suspicious eyebrow at someone who’s been laid off when thousands upon thousands of workers are let go year after year because executives feel their salaries aren’t bloated enough - you’re joking right? Labeling someone who is 40 as too old - what are you still in grade school?
The idiots who run these companies along with those making the hiring and firing decisions should all be sent to prison.
56
Get your applications in for a job working on the US census. Its not long term, but it's work and a paycheck.
5
It’s not you. It’s them... or rather, it’s the automated processes that most large employers now use to process resumes. The internet enabled job seekers to apply to dozens or even hundreds of jobs a day. This spurs applicants, even unqualified applicants, to clog the system by shotgunning applications to many many positions hoping that maybe something will stick.
The result is that employers can receive thousands of applications for every position- way more than any organization could ever responsibly review with human eyes. Instead, about a dozen companies provide most large employers software services called Automated Tracking Services (ATS) to filter out resumes based on key word searches and strict qualification criteria. (You’ve probably heard of LinkedIn, Oracle and Indeed as some of the biggest). These processes eliminate somewhere between 65% and 95% of all job applicants before their resume is even submitted for human review.
...and ATS can be an awfully blunt instrument, throwing off preeminently qualified candidates for irrational reasons (for example, listing a previous position as a Systems Engineer” instead of “System Engineer” or for having 12 and a quarter years of experience when the posting called for 10 to 12 years of experience).
It’s insane and unfair and can allow companies to leverage incredibly abusive power in the hiring process such as proxy agism by automatically filtering out candidates with a certain number of years of experience.
35
Pat, I think it's great that you made people aware that despite the 'record low' unemployment rates, there are still many people stuck without a steady job. While the current economy means it is less likely that you don't have a job, the sting of not working is almost worse because people will assume that you just aren't trying or must be doing something wrong. Self-doubt and discouragement takes over and taint your job-seeking efforts.
I run a website Unemploymentville.com where people share both strategies for coping with being less-than-fully employed as well as their personal journeys into and back out of unemployment. We recently produced a book, Out-of-Work to Making Money, 21 Comeback Stories Every Job Hunter Should Hear and will offer a review copy to anyone who is unemployed or underemployed, interested in reading the book and will take a few minutes to write a review on Amazon. Anyone interested in this offer, can email me at admin at unemploymentville.com - thanks!
Anne
11
The next place to look is the DOL iCert.com site to see if the positions were reported as not-fillable by a US national and an LCA was submitted to allow the company to hire an H1b.
Really, these things need solid follow up and investigation.
3
Thank the use and abuse of the H1B program by foreign outsourcing companies that allowed many corporations to replace their entire experienced IT departments with cheaper and more compliant labor. That new form of indentured servitude has left many experienced workers without a job and unable to compete for the few open jobs where one of those outsourcing/consulting foreign companies have not placed one of their "consultants" yet as the prefered labor force in the United States these days is cheap labor regardless of knowledge or experience or skill.
19
I had the opportunity the retire in 2004 at the age of 45. I took a look at the "real" economy, not the one described by government "statistics." I also talked to a lot of people about how they liked working. I decided that U.S. style capitalism had turned against the people and was only for the rich few. By that time the oligarchy had been in charge since at least Reagan. I bailed and have never looked back. My sympathies to all of you out there having to deal with this mess everyday. I wish I had hope, but I don't.
21
The key to job security is a skill that requires a license to practice. OK, not any skill, but many are in demand. Nurses, plumbers, electricians, and medical technicians, for example. Even a CDL is a ticket to employment.
Go back to school at 50 and get a masters degree in marketing and you're likely to stay unemployed. Get a degree as a radiology technician and there will probably be a signing bonus.
This in no way disputes the point of this article. Well qualified older workers do face discrimination when looking for work.
18
After two layoffs from start ups 2011, 2012, I decided to start my own business. Now my fate is in my own hands and how much effort I make on a daily basis. I make more now than I ever did and some people in my field earn 5x what I do - with little difference except time in the field and effort made.
You can too, think outside the box. Technology has created many ways for people to make money online.
5
I’ve been self-employed since age 27. Among the several services I’ve provided to small businesses has been recruiting accounting professionals for architectural firms, which I did for a couple of years. I enjoyed and was quite good at it.
I refused to poach already employed staff. If an unemployed applicant was qualified, I viewed it as an opportunity to hire an excellent candidate whom others would likely overlook. I put “Re-Entry Applicants Welcome” in the ads. I sent a follow-up email, expressing my appreciation for the submission and wishing the applicant luck in their search. People were grateful that I told them they weren’t selected! I used only Craigslist to locate applicants because recruiters shun it. One accounting manager I liked was well-qualified but had filed for what I learned was a medical bankruptcy. I hired him anyway.
I had these luxuries because I wasn’t in an HR department, and I reported to the clients directly.
If you’re over 50, try to interview with a small business owner who is also over 50. Consider working for yourself if you have a needed skill. There is nothing magical about it. You must provide your own health insurance but, sadly, you probably do that anyway. If a small business is thriving, a caring and conscientious person can often make himself indispensable to an employer.
19
spot on
us citizens, over 50, with college degrees, will not be considered for most open jobs in today's market,
too expensive
medical care required
entitlement mentality
the reasons go on and on
8
Those who got laid off and complain that most hiring happens through connections are exactly the individuals that you don't want to hire.
If you work in a field, you should have a network of peers, partners, customers, clients, adjunct disciplines, etc. If you are really good and valuable, those people will go out of their way to recommend you and help you find new opportunities if you are laid off.
If no one is making connections for you, or advocating for you, or referring you, then I don't want to hire you.
5
That’s extremely shortsighted. As someone who has been looking for full time work in my field since 2016, often times many connections aren’t in the position to hire. As time goes by, the connections you do have tend to dry up as they move in in their careers and economic circumstances prevent you from keeping pace.
Eventually, as this article suggests, you get left behind.
But rest assured, the feeling is mutual. Based on your comments I certainly wouldn’t want to work for you either as your compassion and understanding of the situation is seriously lacking.
53
Unless you had to leave your job because your family needed you and you had to put every thing career wise on hold. Too bad I did not have "a wife" who could take care of the family and deal with crisis after crisis while I continued networking, building relationships, and meeting people.
15
@Baron95 And I definitely do not want to work for you.
24
Graduated in December 2017 with a BA in Economics. At that time I had +5 years of experience in customer service and thought it would be enough to land a job that paid slightly above minimum with benefits. But since then I have had +30 interviews in the last 2 years but no offers. I have no choice but to continue my education and recently got accepted to another school where I start in January.
My understanding is that the labor market is tight for dead-end customer-service, retail, sales, temp, and contract jobs. That's the labor shortage we hear about in the news. The jobs with promise, with upward mobility, with healthcare packages, with stable hours, with decent pay are far and few.
39
Some good points but I feel you are cold and a bit unfair. Everyones history and circumstances are different
Sure, age discrimination is an issue that we need to address as a nation, but so are the people who've been out of work for a while that sit round responding to job posts, scribbling notes in a notebook, such as the notebook gal - she comes across as very passive and disorganized. To get a dream job today, it requires proactive and intentional search and networking, especially on the east coast. Hire a career coach, many of them are millennials who know how to play the game and appeal to today's decision makers - many of who are in the same age group.
10
The calculations of monthly unemployment are specious at best, and can readily be regarded as outright deception at worst. The results of the calculation methodologies used range from variable to off-the-charts wrong.
Add Eugene Scalia, head of the department of Labor, who has spent his career lawyering successfully against workers’ rights and protections, and you have the recipe for yet another Trump Falsehood. Because the unemployment rate has remained below 4 percent, extended federal aid to the unemployed does not function. So those who have been on the unemployment rolls merely roll off after 26 weeks.
In New Jersey – where I’ve had to endure unemployment without benefits for years – a letter is generated informing one that the Federal benefits do not exist due to the (arbitrarily) low unemployment rate. But not one newspaper – including the Times – asks the States how many such letters of denial are distributed each month (specious as those numbers would be).
Many, many highly educated workers “of age” and experience are struggling to make ends meet when they should be planning for a restful retirement, while performing meaningful work that benefits society, and the country as a whole (instead of tossing boxes at Amazon, visitor-greeting at Walmart, or Lyfting people around with little profit to show at the end of a work day.
The American Dream is a nightmare brought about by the very un-or-under employed who voted for the current administration.
27
Just received an email. The US postal service is paying a starting salary of $72,391 a year, plus overtime, no experience needed.
2
According to the American Postal Workers Union, clerks' salaries depended on their service grade. Level 3 employees in the lowest spot on the pay scale earned $25,657 to start. The bureau reported the nation's 65,040 postal clerks overall averaged $52,860, or $25.41 an hour.
took me literally one second to look it up.
17
Not likely. Unless you have an actual job posting email from the USPS, what you mentioned is probably a scam as the USPS is in deep financial trouble.
12
@Richard Winchester and I just received an email saying I'd get a million bucks from a Nigerian prince if I only provide my credit card number.
21
As I mention in another comment:
One dimension of this that's not been acknowledged, or not sufficiently: the lower unemployment goes, the higher the stigma of unemployment (and resume gaps).
This suggests an ironic twist which may be formulated as a kind of theorem:
"The more checkered by unemployment and resume gaps one's job history (including, especially, present) is, the more the stigma of one's unemployment will be increased by an improving job market, and that improved job market's advantages to one be offset by that stigma."
I hate if that would be my claim to fame, but call it Andrew's Theorem.
8
But, but, but the MSM keeps telling me how "great" the economy is.
Maybe, just maybe, the unemployment rate and the stock market are now incomplete and misleading metrics.
14
Yesterday I was interviewed by two people half my age. The CEO is 32. They put me though many "exercises" that had no basis in reality because they read about it in a book and saw a video on how to interview design candidates to see if they would be a good fit. It was humiliating to be watched "solving a problem to see how I thought". Like I was performing. When I told them we need requirements, data, just more information and research before starting any project they told me they didn't want to waste my time and sent me on my way (but told me I could take the lunch they bought me with me). This was after three rounds of interviews I had already gone through with them including 8 hours I spent on a presentation. I will stick with freelancing because its just too arduous and humiliating going through the hoops and time it takes to almost get a job.
155
@mgsquared
That story brings up bad memories, I know your pain!
34
@mgsquared - I had the same experience with the "exercise" (adminstered by a virtual child who gave unclear direction) and 6 weeks later had not heard a "yay", "nay", or "we haven't yet made a decision" from the young CEO who interviewed me 3x and had graduated from my same college where alumni loyalty is highly cherished. I'm a lawyer and it was a very part-time contract job paying diddly-squat. After 6 weeks of radio silence, I wrote him a strongly worded email to which, of course, I got no response. Awful people.
59
@mgsquared What actually happened to you was not a job interview, it was thousands of dollars of free consulting they tricked you into giving them in exchange for a take-out lunch. I am a 53 year-old woman and have been in this situation many times. The minute I clam up and don't offer my ideas and insight, the interview(s) stop.
83
Regarding age discrimination, I got riffed at 62 from an excellent job with benefits, and was forced to sign a document stating I was NOT age discriminated against, in order to get my severance package. Then my boss hired some half my age with a quarter of my experience in the same skill sets. And yeah, I kept those skills up to date at seminars my employer paid for. I was very lucky to get hired quickly by a nonprofit that was staffed by...other sexagenarians. A rare case indeed.
34
This is oh so typical, but try finding anyone outside of your age group and you will find no one.
3
I agree there is ageism.
There are a few universities that offer deep discounts on tuition fees to those above a certain age, usually above 60. Would like to hear from those that have pursued in-demand skill based retraining (a Masters or post graduate diploma) in areas such as machine learning, data analysis, physician assistant, coding etc.
With new credentials, how difficult is it for people to re-enter the workforce?
5
All state schools offer older people the opportunity to audit classes at low cost or free, but they’re not granted degree credits.
1
In any computer science-related field, you are not only competing with younger, cheaper permanent resident or citizen candidates but with cheaper H1B "consultant/candidates" from a foreign "consulting" company who would be the sponsor so the company doing the hiring doesn't have to deal with it.
10
Americans and especially the “leaders” here in Washington DC need to realize what most people in publishing (my field) and across the nation have been experiencing for years. Full employment— ie. a salaried staff job with benefits — is increasingly rare. Until Trump, federal government employees essentially had guaranteed employment for life. Congress provides lifelong employment for too many legislators. These jobs come with good benefits and, for some, lucrative perks. But for millions of other employable adults, jobs are temporary. Contractors, freelancers, project workers labor side by side with a shrinking core of staff employees yet receive none of the benefits or security. In fact, because companies don’t want to provide benefits or look like they’re trying to skirt employment laws, many forbid a contractor from working for more than a year. For an employer, that means always having to train and recruit new (temp) hires. For a workers, that results in being permanently unable to set down roots, buy a home, commit to a relationship, start a family. The wealthy, especially those with inherited wealth (Trump, many GOP leaders) are clueless to what’s happening to those not born into a trust fund. Those with staff positions and positions of workplace power need to stop the practices that will ultimately undermine themselves or a loved one. Government needs to capture data based on today’s variables. Not what once was. After all, garbage info in leads to garbage info out.
23
The looming costs of Social Security and Medicare have produced tactics intended to reduce the costs like raising the age of eligibility. What is not considered is how older employees are not considered valuable due to their skills and experience but very costly to continue to employ. Most institutions consider the skills and experience of older workers a luxury which they can afford to lose. Given that, the tactic of raising the age for eligibility for Social Security and Medicare are making old age impoverishment far more likely.
20
It is intentional. Republicans are discussing it behind
"closed doors." See you later!
5
Labor is a big expense which private and public institutions have been managing by keeping the full time regular staff below what they need to operate and hiring a lot of temporary workers and so called consultants both of who basically earn money only for the time actually on the job, no benefits, no vacation, no sick leave. It saves a lot of labor costs but it leaves the country with a consumer base who are too underpaid to buy more than they have to. It produces a very predictable and steady demand, but one which does not grow sufficiently to require a lot of new permanent new hires and capital expansions.
10
I woke up 24 days ago to find myself suddenly - and shockingly - unemployed.
My former firm - large, well-known, generally well-regarded by most public accounts - decided after 13 years I no longer belong. For 12 of those years I had nothing but good performance reviews. I have them all in writing. For the last year, suddenly and mysteriously, a review indicated I was incompetent. The review was riddled with easily refutable mistruths.
When I protested and presented hard evidence the firm didn't care. HR types never refuted my words. Management stared at the table when I talked. We knew I was right.
I was gone anyway.
Why? I'm in my 40s. The firm has a history of getting rid of people in the expensive part of their career (salary, benefits) and unsurprisingly just before they get MORE expensive. I didn't make 50 so there's no 'lifetime health account' I would have qualified for saving them a fortune. They no longer have to pay the medical bills for a child of mine who is a Type 1 diabetic. They no longer have an upper middle class East Coast salary to cover.
Why not sue? Meh. Even with evidence and a good case no one cares when a middle-aged guy loses his job. Any future employer may be scared off if I sue. Companies gamble knowing they'll get away with it.
I don't know what my prospects are. I read stories like this and panic. I am axious, depressed, and feel washed up 23 years into 45 years of work.
I honestly can't see the future. This wasn't supposed to be the way.
64
@GSB
A piece of totally unsolicited advice: conduct a national job search. Be prepared to move to an area of the country with more opportunity. As my grandfather told me 50 or 60 years ago, be prepared to move where others don't want to go. Competition is less and employers are less demanding because they have a smaller pool of applicants from which to choose.
23
You don’t have to actually sue. You just have to scare them into thinking you might with a letter from a lawyer. It should at least get you a larger severance.
18
Unless you got a generous severance package, you should’ve written them a strongly worded letter threatening to sue.
9
The economic expansion from 1940 to 1973 was transformative. It changed the lives of everyone and assured full time and well paying employment for nearly all. Nothing tried has been able to revive that kind of an economy.
In addition, the policies for re-training and guiding preparations to exploit opportunities has been pathetic. Anyone attempting to find new career that requires considerable education is just beyond the means of most people. They could do it but they could not support themselves and their family while they did so. The only serious efforts have been devoted to capital formation and preservation. Labor and encouragement of efforts to find the most lucrative business opportunities for the domestic economy have been neglected as if they contribute nothing to growth of the economy.
This person's training as a project manager does improve her skills but that position is a temporary one usually filled by experienced full time staff members, not outsiders brought in just to do that without a skill set closely related to the business. A lot of people talk about learning to code, meaning how to write computer programs without any background in computer science or software engineering. Those skills are fairly general and not deep enough to make people particularly sought after, unless they have already done a lot with different languages. That kind of skill is like type writing, it's relatively insignificant in relation to the skills a lot of people have.
5
Over the course of my career, I found that it was impossible to conduct a serious job search, for anything other than clerical positions, without looking nationally. The more senior the position one seeks, the less likely you will find it within some 25/35/100 mile radius of where you are living.
16
Patricia Cohen, thank you for writing this article. I hope that someone "in charge" reads this. The comments section is like a support group! It's both sad and comforting to know you are not alone.
24
REAL unemployment has been over twenty percent since 2009. I
Here in NYC burbs things are worse than they appear. I know someone who's been out of work for 5 years. A house nearby sits empty - the former resident hadn't paid his mortgage in 4 years. Another neighbor was out of work for 2 years. They just got a position at half their former salary. Publishing has had huge cuts - many of those people remain out of work. Banking has been going through layoffs. You're seeing a lot of people in their 50's being let go or taking early retirement packages - despite age discrimination statutes. An IT guy took two years to find a spot - again at half his former salary. The manager of an insurance agency was let go - it took him a year to find a spot. Retail is imploding.
We are facing an endless race to the bottom in wages. Even if you're skilled and in a well paying job, you'd better be available 24/7 and save like mad because you're going to be out of work at 50, replaced with a younger cheaper you.
40
@cynicalskeptic
New grads are not finding things easy. Many work unpaid 'internships' (illegal actually) just to get their foot in the door. One guy put in 6 months unpaid - no job. The salaries of jobs for new grads have not kept pace with inflation. They are half what they were 40 years ago.
The US has destroyed our jobs base by shipping our industrial base overseas - jobs making tangible items with real value. Creating or adding value creates wealth. Too much of the US economy now is based on playing financial games. WeWork? really? Online advertising is worth how much? Have you ever ordered something from some random pop-up ad?
What is it that prompts 'an error has occurred' messages? It seems that certain phrases prompt this message. Apparently some topics should not be mentioned - just as some articles do not allow comments.
14
as a fifty five year old who went to college, got an mba, bought into the hype, "did all the right things" and was burned by the "get an education because they can't take that away from you" mantra of my parents' generation, i feel as though i'm witnessing this country approach the final bend in a slow motion train wreck and for some reason i don't feel too bad about it
85
Now I'm retired. I worked until early this year.
I have had DOL-sponsored job coaching which specified "do Not mention the year you graduated." There are many key words which HR software will reject. Even if you have had ten jobs in the course of your life, and excellent references from all of them, you can't say so because it makes you sound Old. Essentially, the first place your resume goes is to a robot. The robot is programmed to weed out people - including older people. The HR software has been told that young workers are Better (because they are young!) whereas they're more likely to move away in a year, or not have any experience at all - even in showing up on time. Oddly, the business-owners are often over 50, but the HR robot will reject anyone over 30. Who put these robots in charge? They would reject their bosses!
I'm just glad that I dropped out during my Freshman year of college in 1964, so I never had a college debt to repay.
20
And yet Schumer D NY wants more skilled immigrant labor because he says that Facebook and Google can't find enough in this country.
Even worse, NYS filled state jobs with contractors who hired only contract workers.
13
Tell me about it: took a break from systems engineer to care for my family dealing with illness and death only to become untouchable. I have updated my skills, and yet now that I could give my career full attention, society has decided all I am good for is to help raise grandchildren, at 49, I guess. At this point, I so close to "heck with them". They do not want me, I am going to create my own opportunity where my knowledge, experience and wisdom gained thru life will be more appreciated than youth.
29
The reality is, the way most full-time jobs are filled nowadays, regardless of the successful applicant's age, is networking. Many real full-time, benefits-included jobs are never even advertised, and if they are, often the job ad is written with a specific candidate in mind (I have personal experience with this). People hire people they already know, which is why those just starting out, those starting over (especially if they are attempting to switch fields), and minorities face such hurdles. Ms. Ward and others like her need to focus on networking, not with those similarly unemployed but with those she has worked with on a contract basis at various companies. Good jobs are filled through contacts now, not job ads. Ads are just there to go through the HR motions and make it look like an open search. If you have no contacts, or you're afraid to reach out to those you have, you're sunk.
19
@Nikki
"Good jobs are filled through contacts now, not job ads."
That was my experience all during my working years in the private sector. There was a saying that went like this:
"It's not what you know, it's who you know."
18
The long term unemployed should be able to borrow against their Social Security taxes they paid in.
7
I was forced out of my job in early September after less than a year. It was never a good fit, though it serves as an exclamation mark for what I consider a lost decade in my career.
So, like many Americans, I'm going back to school - this time to become a high school English teacher. Now is the logical time for a career change that nurtures my need to truly contribute through service, something that has been lacking in my career thus far. I already have an MBA, which I thought would help to unlock riches and career growth. Turns out that wasn't the case.
It's tough out there, as employers tend to search for a unique set of skills and experience that frankly no one has at the moment. They want the skills of Gen Z coupled with the experience of a Boomer, and they don't want to pay more than they would a young Millennial who has no need for work-life balance. That's not for me.
17
Discrimination against women over 40 is counterintuitive, we usually don’t have young children and are not likely to get pregnant. What’s the beef?
15
@Maryellen Simcoe, with apologies for cynicism: potential caregivers for elderly parents, and no longer “hot”?
13
One dimension of this that's not been acknowledged, or not sufficiently: the lower unemployment goes, the higher the stigma of unemployment (and resume gaps).
16
I'm a well educated 58 year old woman with decades of experience in the med spa industry. I've been unemployed on and off for years, since I am an independent contractor (hence cannot collect unemployment). The job market in NYC is HORRIBLE unless you DO have connections. The wages are THE lowest compared to the cost of living, and the competition is ridiculous with over 1000 applicants for each job (stats who on Indeed). If it were not for a friend and one sister who have helped me survive financially, I would literally be close to homeless. I still have nightmares about this often.
27
Labor participation rates are very low, 62%, a number not captured by the unemployment rate. Indeed, low participation implies that the unemployment rate is vastly understated.
15
Because companies don't like to hire full-time employees, because of outsourcing and the gig economy and AI and ageism and jobs that won't come back, I tell my children (24 and 21) to save enough money so they can retire at 50.
18
As a Boy Scout leader I am sometimes asked by boys about what type of work to get training in. I tell them repairs are a good general field if and only if the items cost a lot and cannot be easily shipped out of the country for work to be done elsewhere at $1 an hour. Automotive electronics, heating, ventilation and air conditioning, auto body repair, and maintenance of medical diagnostic equipment come to mind. These unglamorous jobs can pay your bills and don’t require a college degree and huge debt.
27
Basically, companies seem to want people between 25 and 40. They can't be bothered to train recent grads, but they don't want to pay people with a lot of experience. But recent grads may be innovative and older workers have the experience to guide other workers and prevent errors. There is a lot to be learned from experience.
30
There is something that needs to be clearly understood in the established pattern of behavior inside companies looking to hire people into their workforce:
Many companies would prefer to pay more and poach an employee from another company, rather then hire an unemployed person. This varies by industry and location, but it is accurate to say it is a rampant behavior in the job market. In fact.. they will delay filling a job position sometimes until they find a suitably employed candidate to poach from another company.
Now.. why would a company do something like this? Because human nature drives the pattern of behavior here and it is human nature to assume:
1) an unemployed worker is unemployed because they are a substandard worker (regardless of the specific facts of any given candidate).
2) an employed worker, particularly with a company considered to be a competitor... is believed to be so desireable as to pay a premium to lure them away. Said premium is often not in salary, but in signing bonus and/or equity offerings.
3) the behavior is more driven by the line manager seeking to fill a position, rather then HR or recruiting professionals.
It a sick and pathetic practice, but it exists anyway. My wife is an HR executive in a large tech company who is responsible for compensation and benefits.. and she says the HR staff constantly faces an uphill battle with line managers over this practice. It is more common for more senior positions to be filled.
14
@Chuck
I have yet to meet an HR person who is not discriminatory against those who are unemployed, or were forced to leave their jobs because of illness and/or caring for a sick relative.
Direct line managers are far more competent and knowledgeable in subject-matter expertise required to do the job. HR is nothing but a front to protect the legal obligations of the company, i.e. clear background checks and make sure that the company doesn't get sued by workers for harassment, etc.
22
@Viv
Deliberate attempt to deflect my comments.
There are certainly bad HR organizations in corporations.... but I find your highly cynical and biased narrative to be both inaccurate and misleading.
And to reiterate... the issue of rejecting unemployed workders in favor of poaching an employed worker from another company IS A THING and it is driven by line management, not any competent HR organization. Competent HR compensation teams actually push back on the practice precisely because it can cause both legal issues as well as drives up salary compensation indexes for no actual market driven reasons. Problem is.. you cannot change a line managers corrupt choices like this... other then to refuse to approve the premium required to poach an employee.
2
@Chuck
I don't understand why you have such a problem with poaching, as it's immoral. Companies pay for experience, and rightfully reward employees who have worked for their competitors. What is wrong and unethical about that?
That's the literal definition of meritocracy in free market. Look at how great I did my job at company X, hire me and I will do the same for you at company Y.
Heaven forbid that workers get paid more or that companies should have to compete on wages to keep their workers! The horror!
What is inaccurate and misleading about my statements?
It's HR who has popularized and standardize the use of totally bogus and merit-less "personality" tests to hire people, grant promotions and pretend they're not discriminating.
It's HR who has popularized the use of automatic application tracking systems that don't work any better than the implicit biases it was supposed to replace.
That's why networking events are still the most productive and efficient way to score employees. Prospective employees want to speak to the team they'll be working with, not some HR drone who they'll never see again and most of the time has ZERO idea of what the line manager actually needs.
You're biased because of what your wife does. Undoubtedly she makes very good money doing it. But stop pretending that it actually has value to workers, and people seeking work. She's nothing but a roadblock, and a gatekeeper.
2
I moved back to New York and because of high housing costs I needed to find a job. Within one week I found 3 jobs at $25.00 an hour. I took one job, working 3 days a week 10 hours a day and I also received medical. I have no special skills I just needed a job and found one. Sadly, after decades of reading the New York Times I now wonder if what is reported is accurate.
5
@Julia, congratulations!
What is your field and job role?
10
@Julia - good for you but have you noticed all the comments here from people who have not been able to secure steady employment?
4
Julia: Your very unique experience does not mean the NYTs reporting is inaccurate. In fact, it’s both shocking that you found a part-time job with benefits and that you can afford to live in NY when earning only $25 hour.
18
Many have noted that ageism is rampant and that many unemployed or underemployed Americans 50-plus are looking at up 15 years without health insurance.
And yet, more than half our demographic has consistently voted for Republicans who are completely hostile towards protecting people with pre-existing conditions, universal access to health care, protections against discrimination (including ageism) and have been hatching plans for years to slash Medicare and Social Security. Since Ronald Reagan, the GOP has been singularly devoted to degrading our lives and yet substantial number of my generation may vote for the Republicans again?!? And for a foul mouthed, mafia-style, anti “family values” compulsive liar?
If we want to see a substantial improvement in our lives and prospects, we baby boomers and Gen-Xers need to vote straight party line Democratic in 2020. And once they are in power, loudly and aggressively push for a pro-older American agenda.
Because there is one thing do far better than Millennials and Gen-Z. We vote.
23
@Annnabelle
Totally agree regarding how foolish many of us are to vote for those who would disenfranchise us, and we need to push for a pro-everybody agenda. Universal health care would benefit everyone, whether they're young, old, or in-between.
Taking health insurance off employers' bottom line would also remove one of the major reasons they don't want to hire full-time workers. It should be paid for by a payroll tax that must apply to part time and contract workers as well. On the upside, starting a company would be easier if would-be entrepreneurs of any age didn't have to worry about how they would get health insurance, whether for a hip replacement or an unintended pregnancy. Addressing income inequality, lack of affordable housing, and climate change would benefit people of all ages too. It's not a generation gap, it's a wealth gap.
6
What is a good job, and why have so many in the middle class been deprived of an opportunity to obtain one? That is the real story that must be told. What was a typical job in the 1960's like? What legal rights did an applicant have? Part time work should not even be included as anything other than "part time work" in labor statistics. Be clear about this, poor quality jobs creates frustration which leads to the election of populists. No one should struggle to find a job. Labor statistics have been manipulated to the point where they are meaningless. The labor market is strong for employers who pay too little and ask too much. It is weak for everyone else.
13
NYTimes should look into these new screening programs that HR departments use. And ask the question if the screening programs are doing the companies a disservice by eliminating good candidates. Many people can't seem to get past these and have no other way to make their case for hire. I suspect that's why people can say: "I've applied to 500 companies." It's because an algorithm has made the decision and not a real-life hiring manager.
28
Here’s some advise for people in their 20s (even 30s) from someone approaching 60 who has had several jobs, and started a few businesses.
You need to plan out your career with the goal of being a business owner by age 50. Otherwise you can lose your job in middle age, and no one will re-hire you.
A business comes in all shapes and sizes. You can be a partner in a medical or law practice, a part owner in a small company that sells whatever, a part owner of rental properties, or an owner of a store or franchise. There are many other examples of ownership.
The key is to position yourself towards some level of ownership where you can get a share of the profits and from which no one can throw you out. It can take a decade or more to achieve that level of security; in fact you may never achieve it. But you have to try, and you have to start working towards that goal early.
Truth.
30
Agreed. The only exception to this would be for an academic to be tenured or on a tenure track (which is increasingly more difficult, but still possible for now.)
8
@Steven Roth
Not everyone is suited intellectually or temperamentally to be a business owner. You have to wear a lot of hats, work long hours, and shoulder a lot of risk to own your own business. Not everyone wants to or can do that. There's a reason half of new businesses fail within the first 5 years.
19
American employers are spoiled. They act as though they have all the cards and an applicant is some sort of fruit, half rotten or not, to be discarded as quickly as possible. Indeed, this is the likely motive behind the new vision based systems that scan the applicants face and voice to see if they might be a good employee: to eliminate as many as quickly and inexpensively as possible.
American corporations expect to spend 0 dollars on developing employees, on training or education, unless the person is deemed worthy of being hired. They want people to spend 1/3 of their lives getting ready for a job, even one that requires highly specific, narrowly defined experience and knowledge. Then, once hired, all employment is "at will", meaning you can be fired on any given day unless the person is covered by some sort of contract, which is the exception.
The practice of sending workers home from a store or restaurant if business is slow is highly abusive, yet employers get away with it because people are desperate. What is the person supposed to do with the other hours when they expected to be gainfully employed? Go panhandling?
If we had stronger laws regarding employment and dismissal, corporations might be forced to treat workers better. They might be forced to see that "human capital" is their most valuable resource, the source of all success as a business.
27
I don't think a lot of people realize how easy it is to find a job in technical fields. If you have had any exposure to programming or unix/linux systems, not only is it easy to find a job but they pay amazing salaries and bonuses. Many jobs in the IT fields are in such demand that they sponsor people from other companies because so few people have those skills in this country. You can go to Devry or any trade school and learn enough to enter those fields within a year.
3
But many people have literally zero interest in doing this, and have training in the field they’ve dedicated their lives too.
Pretty sick of the “learn to code” argument.
24
Just try it if you're over 45!
19
Looking at all the comments here, I don’t feel alone anymore. I am 58. Up until last Oct. my contract to hire position ended when company went bankrupt. With an IT/technical background I’ve managed to find work within a few months in the past. Not so this time. This last year I’ve had few actual interviews but didn’t get any offer. What I find puzzling and frustrating is the quality of recruiters has degraded significantly. Lots of unprofessional recruiters approaching, praising my experience, getting consent to represent me and then just dropping off without a follow up. I used to be able to get work thru key temp agencies in the past. Not so easy anymore. Most refer you to applying on line and then nothing. Even when I contact them in person the response would be not as if they’re really trying hard. I find it hard to accept that my skills & experience have suddenly become obsolete. I opted for seasonal work in retail while waiting for a good opportunity to keep me afloat. At $11/hr., I discovered how much the quality of those jobs have changed over 25 years in my lifetime. Automation in all aspects, from scheduling days to working 7 hr shifts staying on your feet with demanding physical activity was a shock to my body ( I work in the receiving department of a major retailer). My body is exhausted all the time sapping all the energy needed to find real work with a living wage. I’m really depressed on my prospects considering so many others are in the same predicament.
28
@Nash I am sorry. I'm a recentily retired HR person; have done tech recruiting in the past. Tech recruiting used to be a skill. Although the recruiter couldn't do the actual tech job, they understood enough of the terminology and req'ts to know what the hiring mgr. was looking for. A candidate was thoroughly screened by the recruiter and it was the candidate's job to lose if passed on to the hiring manager.
But that has changed so now tech recruiters may not have that much background so its a throw it against the wall and see if it sticks approach.
I hope things change for you and others find a job commensurate with your background. I don't know if there's much government presence in your area but local, state and federal government should be considered if available. Going from private industry to the gov't was a shock to me, everything moves at a snails pace, but it's gainful employment.
Best wishes.
8
@ Ann. Thank you!
I agree with your assessment of IT recruiters. Most that I’ve encountered these past months seems to have a general background, limiting their ability to truly assess a candidate’s potential.
I’ve thought about applying to government positions as well. Their process is for the most part dated and bureaucratic as well.
I’m going to keep on trying. Appreciate your comment :)
4
@Ann
Consideration of gainful employment in the "Public" sector, must include all those years (often near a decade) that you get no COLA at all; I know all the private sector employees are going to say, 'well, us too', BUT the public sector salary averages 20% or more Less than a private sector job. See what kind of a dent that puts in your present life, not to mention your retirement, for all the SS/pension contributions NOT made to your account.
The only way to get ahead financially in the public sector is to get a promotion, and if you actually are conscientious about doing a job right and not cutting corners to get by, you will be rewarded by having double work dumped on you (actually, promotion or not). The MTA is a great one for this so, go there if you need to only until you can find a better gig.
1
Losing a job later in life is devastating. I lost mine at 59 - just as my only child was finishing her education and I was ready to focus on growing my retirement savings.
It’s a shock - you have a lifetime of knowledge and great skills - yet you are undesirable?? And Congress keeps pushing back retirement age. Of course, the decision makers have jobs ( and health insurance ) .... so it’s easy for them to establish the rules. Something needs to change. When will our government address issues affecting real people?
25
The equation employers are looking for is 24/24/24:
24 years old
willing to work 24 hours a day
for $24,000 a year
59
I know multiple recent college grads who are struggling to find their first full-time position. Some of them have degrees that employers are touting as desirable in headlines nowadays, like a B.S. in Computer Science.
One has applied to over 600 positions since they've graduated (May 2018). One potential employer told this person they weren't moving forward in the hiring process because of this time gap.
There are people who are tired and frustrated in every age bracket.
87
Helpful hint- older people may be even more tired than young people, after having raised you all and working for the last 4 decades.
Also lost on youth- we have experience and knowledge if you care to engage with us it could be helpful to all.
16
@American
I agree that engaging with older folks is good, which I do regularly. I haven't struggled to find employment myself, which I credit to being very proactive in college where I interned and networked a lot. I gave up a lot of my free time in the process.
I'm not trying to place anyone's levels of tiredness above anyone else's. My point is people are struggling regardless of their age, years of experience, and level of education.
15
@Morgan
I have a nephew suffering from this very phenomena at this very moment in time. Actually he has been suffering for more then 18 months.
My wife, an HR professional with a background in Chemical Engineering, Project Management, and Administrative Management has tried very hard to assist him and has concluded that his issue is not the market.. but him.
What do I mean by this? Several things actually, and I implore young graduates to please listen and adapt accordingly:
1) He refused to take advantage of the seminars and other specialty programs at his well regarded university that are specifically designed to help new grads properly prepare, package themselves, and pitch themselves to prospective employers.
2) He believed that just getting good grades and a degree guaranteed him a high paying and rewarding string of offers from multiple companies. He actually believed employers would fight over him.
3) He picked a major (mechanical engineering, with a minor in robotic systems) that was his passion, yet when he graduated, rather then interview with companies where his knowledge and skills were in high demand.. he simply returned home (which is in Silicon Valley) where there are less mechanical engineering jobs, and more competition.
4) He very much has a strong ego and feels he is entitled, and it comes through in how he responds to interviews (my wife has in fact dry-run interviewed and coached him on this.. to no avail.
Smarten up young generation
9
Employment rates mean very little if people are not paid living wages.
26
Touting low unemployment as a sign of economic success, is like Matt Zuckerberg’s claim that by not taking down hate filled or clearly untrue political ads is anti democratic.
The economy is filled with perm-temp jobs that pay below market value and offer no benefits. These jobs are complemented by short-term temp jobs, both white and blue collar. Again, with no benefits. College graduates are making about $47K vs. $52K In 2000. Inflation never takes a day off and cities like NYC or SF are pricing most people out of their homes. Luxury apartments are said to contribute to about 1/3 of empty apartments in NYC - mostly owned by wealthy people who need to launder money. Real estate developers are happy to oblige, as is Zuckerberg with Russian clients who pay him Rubbles for their destructive and misleading political ads.
14
Thank you for this important reminder, which includes people and their narratives, beyond the misleading, dehumanizing numbers representing valenced trends, void of real people with names, histories, needs and aspirations.
A number of times during our lifetimes we read about, and see, the various graphics of the election of a new Pope. Selected people, leaders of the Roman Catholic Church, diverse in various characteristics and ideological positions, gather in a city-state. Are temporarily locked into a room- not Locked-Up- until they carry out their mandated human responsibility. Whatever the a-sacramental negotiations and deals. Each one manifests individual personal accountability. And the smoke signals... The implications and outcomes of this “ problem solving,” as with everything else which is reality based and influenced is influenced by interacting dimensions of uncertainties, unpredictabilities, randomness, outliers, and lack of TOTAL control, notwithstanding one’s efforts; timely or not.
Imagine, in our daily secular world if elected and selected policymakers, were made to be personally accountable, placed into a “ site- for-solutions,” their basic daily needs adequately taken care of, and they could not leave what they were mandated to do. Whatever their voiced and written problems.
Their “ congregants” were to be helped to fill part of their waking day “working-employed” in some way so as to achieve experienced, sustainable wellbeing and health. Imagine!
2
I was reasonsatisfied to be employed as a high-skill temp, getting gigs of 2 or more months at a free @50k. Until my last placement: a sleek quasi govt agency, filled with smart young people. Fine by me, but when my supervisor met me she seemed surprised. I’m over 60, overweight & walk with a cane. Her every reaction to me in person, and henceforth online, was clipped & irritable or she just ignored me. When I asked for help with an unfamiliar tracking system, she could barely contain her disgust. By days end my agency called and told me to go home.
I was there 3 days. Maybe I’m slower on the uptake with their internal procedures than my younger peers. But my core work, the skills they hired me for, are solid. We just never got that far.
Since then I’m freelancing, Uber driving and anticipating a (low income) retirement.
14
Next story -- rising dissatisfaction in the public policy community with the traditional definition of 'employment', an artifact of a day of factories, unions, and full-time jobs.
On my street, for example, there are a total of three full-time jobs with 40 hours, benefits, 1040s, etc. there are two dozen people who live gig to gig, as consultants, freelancers, temps, and at-will contractors -- of course including a lot of time not working.
But the U2 doesn't care. The U6, at least, would come closer. Anything to that, Ms. Cohen?
2
Your article touches on this towards the end, but I think the real challenge for many people seeking full-time employment is age discrimination, or as some refer to it “ageism”. Which is sometimes labeled as “over qualified” for the position.
16
I was told that I was overqualified for several positions. It was obvious that my degrees were better and more comprehensive than the ones hanging on the wall for the persons who would be my bosses. Age may have had something to do with it. I was in my early thirties and they were in their early fifties.
7
I am glad that someone is talking about the vagaries of the job market. Statistics never convey the human side of anything, but politicians bragging about the great job market hurts many.
All the people who are mentioned in the article and who fall through all sorts of cracks in the job markets are lost in the national narrative.
If the nature of work and employment is changing (my own opinion), then we have to find ways to make life possible for those on the front line. Examples--make child care easier, decoupling health insurance from a job, perhaps a universal guaranteed wage.
These may be the challenges that determine how we move forward as a country.
7
I work in tech. Sub 1% unemployment and I have better financial footing than my cardiologist wife.
The barriers are falling down in the field. Degrees are no longer required. They want self-starters who can learn to code and demonstrate competence.
I code from 5:30am to 7 or 7:30am three times a week. It isn't hard. Pick up new concepts and stay afloat. If you are unemployed, a bootcamp and projects on github can get you money than an ad agency with 20 years experience.
1
So tired of “learn to code” as a one size fits all “solution” to unemployment. Not everyone has the aptitude for it, nor the interest in staring at a computer screen all day.
Some of us actually have well developed skills in our field and are simply having trouble finding the right job.
I will not “learn to code” - I work with people, not machines.
18
@Scott, it’s ridiculous to claim that you “code” for at most six hours a week and have a decent income, let alone being on a better financial footing than your supposed cardiologist wife.
16
Is the fact that Ms. Ward is recording her job-search data in a notebook rather than in a spreadsheet a clue as to why she has not landed a full-time position? If she captured the data as data, she could analyze it, draw some conclusions about what applications were more or less successful, and retool her approach by building upon what was working better. Along the way, she’d be honing 21st-century data analysis skills.
13
@Lolo I understand what you're saying and appreciate the feedback, but the data wouldn't be complete, because there's no way of knowing what happens to my application after I hit send....is it a live person reviewing it? Is it going through ATS? So while I can say "this cover letter style got me some interviews" it's still only half the picture because I don't know how it's processed. And all the company specific applications that link to LinkedIn and don't even use your actual resume, it's the same question...
10
One idea, perhaps NYTimes can implement is a portal page on employment statistics. This portal is analogous to finance.google/yahoo. It will simply chart employment statistics that answer very simple questions.
Current unemployment rate - people can zoom in over specific time periods.
Number of people employed part-time, full-time, etc. The chart should show employment by bands (each band represents X number of hours).
Number of people who are considered employment age - versus actually working, etc
4
Sorry to say this, but I hope all those HR people that won’t pass along those “age 50 and over resumes” suffer the same fate when it’s their time!
30
I was in a similar position years ago and was forced into early retirement because most recruiters will not talk to people over 55 YO and companies will not hire most people over that age (with very limited exceptions if you have a special skill or are a member of executive management).
Ms. Ward and other can take all the courses they want and pick up whatever new skills they are interested in but doing this isn't likely change their job prospects. Age discrimination is rampant in the USA.
We need radical solutions or a lot more people are going to be in similar straits as they age out of the "acceptable" work force age range.
Maybe UBI? But it will have to be significantly greater than Yang's $1000/month. Or perhaps companies should have to pay into a fund to support people with skills who they refuse to consider? Or?
16
@Joseph yes that is all very true. And I wholeheartedly agree.
3
I can fall into blaming discrimination as easily as anyone. But the fact that needs the real attention is there are so few good jobs, and when there is one, there are so many applicants. Employers like universities have discovered they can get by with offering less--a tenured position is like a unicorn. Now "adjunct" is being applied not just to instructional but to professional staff positions as well. All to bring more money to the tippy top. Oh yeah, and I love how I have to pay property taxes that go up every year when these "non-profits" don't.
12
I lived in Norway. In Norway, our workplaces are filled with happy people and many women — and many women in their 40s, 50s and beyond. In Norway, workers have the rights (not the employer). Women and parents have rights. People get to take long vacations. The protections and benefits of workers is progressive and leaps and bounds beyond what you have here. And people have universal healthcare not tied to employment, so there is no fear of leaving one company for another.
When I returned to America I was shocked by many changes — it looks like a third world of the 1980s, people are fat and unhealthy looking, the government is dysfunctional, restaurants and doctors offices are old and dirty, public transportation is old or nonexistent, buildings and infrastructure are falling apart, so many homeless even in suburbs....
But one of the most shocking things was the condition of the office/ workplace. Terrible working conditions even in white collar jobs. Where did all of the people over the age of 40 go? I’m seeing a lot of young people who seem angry, and a lot of Chinese and Indian H1B workers. Everyone else has simply disappeared?
29
@Misplaced Modifier
As corporate politicians tell us, " This isn't Norway" -- thanks to them.
6
And pundits wonder why our life expectancies are declining and the phrase "suicide of despair" has entered the national lexicon.
11
The age discrimination is obvious and rampant, and everybody pretends that it does not exist, while we all know that it is at the apex. There is no way to find a position which requires experience and pays for it. A 'job' in US nowadays means the cheapest possible hourly pay with minimal benefits, and for all other jobs, the first idea is to outsource them if by any means possible. The so-called job market is a joke, as are the numbers although I will admit that it has always been like that.
So, while the numbers are good, the reality is not that good and it is not going to get better. The corporations and money rule this country, now probably more than ever, and are not going to loosen their grip.
20
The photo says it all. We need a mother’s pension. No one will hire a middle aged women for anything.
Just look at Hilary Clinton.
At least pension us off and juice the economy- give us some dignity if we are to have no place in public life.
13
@American
Best idea I've heard all day. While I am not a mother, I am a middle-aged woman and the thought of losing my job terrifies me because I know I'd never find another one with benefits. The eligibility age for Social Security needs to go down, not up.
9
I may vote for Trump in 2020 if only to punish all of the heartland people who think he’s so great. It will take another Democrat to clean up a Republican mess, as usual...
2
@J for the sake of preserving some semblance of a representative republic, don’t.
19
No sh-t.
I'm 64 and its been two years since I got so much as a response to a job application.
Don't tell me age discrmination isn't real, blatant and ungoing.
The unemployment rate is a farce.
171
I have successfully managed high risk multi-million dollar projects for decades. Once the recession came, the jobs disappeared. They exist according to the advertisements, but for an older woman, they are gone. My experience does not matter. The technology industry seems to believe that once you turn 50, you forget everything. We have forgotten more than many of the current "techies" know. Part of the problem is the technology that is used to screen applicants. Your application is screened by an algorithm before a person ever sees it. If the HR person that put together the key words for the position either doesn't understand the position or has a bias, all bets are off. My personal favorite was a job posting that asked for ten years of experience with a technology that had only been around for two. The entire hiring process needs revamped.
25
The "unemployment rate" is a deeply flawed measurement of the overall employment outlook. The participation rate for the employable vs the employed shows a starkly different picture. Once over 67%, it has fallen to under 63%. Less people are working. To call the unemployment rate "stunningly low" is a celebration of a heavily politicized, meaningless number that in no way embodies the real employment outlook for those people who would work if they could.
The rate of participation reflects a change in the overall employment landscape. Much like the drift away from manufacturing, the distribution of employment practices has changed dramatically. Wages are compressed, especially at the bottom end while the gig economy has dramatically shifted the demographics and validity of what being employed means.
For those that are employed the uninsured rate has risen, while overall wages have fallen. The lack of savings and home ownership, demonstrates clearly the decline in employment quality. While better than nothing, more employment has become untenable for millions of Americans who are clinging to a life fraught with so many pitfalls that one small slip and they will fall into a precipice toward homelessness, a hellish place for the untouchables of our decaying society.
9
The prevailing ethic in workforce management seems to be one of resource extraction. Young people go in to debt in order to gain skills to compete in today's labor market. Once employed, they work long hours, and endure high levels of stress and burn out, while companies invest little in the professional development. The work environment contributes to the going burden of chronic disease - the cost of which falls heavily on those workers and makes it more difficult to maintain long hours.
Once these workers have been "used up" they are discarded and replaced by newly trained workers who are basically indentured from the cost of their self-funded "training".
32
The prevailing ethic in workforce management seems to be one of resource extraction. Young people go in to debt in order to gain skills to compete in today's labor market. Once employed, they work long hours, and endure high levels of stress and burn out, while companies invest little in the professional development. The work environment contributes to the going burden of chronic disease - the cost of which falls heavily on those workers and makes it more difficult to maintain long hours.
Once these workers have been "used up" they are discarded and replaced by newly trained workers who are basically indentured from the cost of their self-funded "training".
4
There’s plenty of jobs available in my area. Merchants and companies are advertising starting pay at from $15/hour to $24/hour. Many will hire you on the spot - no resume needed. Several advertise that persons with criminal records in their past will be hired. Rent for a nice 2 bedroom apartment in a safe neighborhood with great schools is about $1250/month. Maybe people need to move away from trendy high priced areas and stop looking for an Executive position.
10
Many people, especially those of us who are in our middle years, have elderly parents we cannot just abandon and/or children whose lives we cannot casually upend.
19
@Richard Winchester If job advertising meant anything, everyone would be a millionaire day trading in their spare time.
6
@Richard Winchester So a 60-year-old should go work in a warehouse?
9
I am 60 and lucky enough to be a computer programmer. I've been the oldest person wherever I work for the past 20 years. I've been laid off and unemployed for months, twice in the last five years. I always have to sign papers that say I won't sue over age discrimination to get some severance. The last one was almost comical, listing age discrimination over 20 times. I am always the first to go. But, the company was not doing well.
But, I have a new job now. For my last two jobs, and for another during the dot-com crash, I spent hours every day applying for jobs and changing around my resume and cover letter text and learning about all the excruciatingly bad web-apps used today for job applications. In all cases, eventually, I found somewhere with the combination of a staff of older people and a good skills match.
Younger people don't want older people around, period. I'm sorry to say this, but the picture of Ms. Ward tells it all. Young women will run screaming in the other direction because she'll remind them of their mother. Women of our age need to exude avant-garde power and look cool. I'm fortunate that I look young for my age, but that's going fast.
26
To the folks who are bringing up age discrimination here are some tips:
1) Stop putting down what year you graduated from school. If an employer wants to verify your degree they'll ask you for that as part of the offer process.
2) Stop listing every single job you've ever had. If a job calls for 5 years of experience don't list jobs you did 10+ years ago. Also don't list jobs which are not directly relevant for the job you're applying for. A resume is meant to be a concise document outlining how your experience matches the job requirements. It's not meant to be a complete record of everything you've ever done.
3) Stop including statements such as "I have over 40 years of IT experience." No job requires that many years of experience and there's very little data that supports the notion that more years of experience actually makes you better at something. Also chances are whatever industry you're in as substantially changed in the past 40 years.
12
@Cyclocrosser Most online submissions require you to put in your graduation dates. And most people know to keep their resumes to the last 10 years. But if ageism is built into the screening process, it doesn't matter. You won't get an interview.
26
@cyclocrosser if you are lucky enough to get a phone call back, a few questions will immediately give you away. Companies don’t want to pay for experience. They want relatively recent college grads so they can pay entry level salaries, no matter the profession.
9
Yeah. The "low unemployment" numbers and the "jobs added" numbers are inflated hypothetical political BALONEY so that the voters can be like, hmm, he's doing well...I'll vote for him again. Remember, we're still coming out of the era where we were taught to BELIEVE WHAT WE WERE TOLD. I have been steadily employed for well over 25 years and have applied for a number of jobs during the last 10, and have only been called by a couple that I ended up turning down, whether it was for their inability to beat my current salary, or just not the right fit, but the calls that I received do not compare to the number of letters of interest and applications that I have sent out over the years. It's worrisome, really. It makes you think that if your current job were eliminated, would you find another job to cover your basic needs, pay your mortgage, feed your kids?
I find that for the experienced educated worker with a college degree, the calls just aren't coming in, because the HR department knows that they can call a young graduate with fresh skills who will work for a MUCH lower rate of pay and show the enthusiasm that a seasoned professional might challenge. However, they err in that they end up hiring someone who isn't comfortable in their own skin, because that can only come from experience.
11
"Meritocracy"'s whole premise is that life, like this comment itself, is a constant contest for favorable ratings, quantitative assessment of worth. In school grades are this assessment, on Facebook it is "likes," in this forum it is "recommends"; the holy grail status marker in the economy is of course salary.
When a person becomes unemployed, he or she within this status system becomes a true "nobody," discarded trash or offal, similar to India's "untouchables."
People in this predicament have no choice but to re-brand themselves to minimize the stigma. "freelance this, gig worker that....free-spirited artist/bohemian --- "I teach modern dance, harp.... " whatever. The coping strategies are ubiquitous & obvious. The economy divides us into "winners" & "losers" on a fairly clear continuum; this logic/process is the sum-total of its Darwinian morality.
It's a non-morality morality of course: in truth our economy is just a jungle, continually culling for demise/sacrifice to the market god between 3-10 (or higher)% of the herd.
All anyone can do is try to protect their niche at all costs, incl. forging alliances so that each time the music stops, it will be someone else disappearing.
When you watch nature videos of this process, you see a herd member happily integrated suddenly separated & surrounded by wolves as others look on, seemingly relieved it's not them. The lost one is temporarily mourned & forgotten. The "circle of life" in the jungle & our jungle-economy.
23
@Andrew we need change and radical change now.
2
One dimension of this that's not been acknowledged, or not sufficiently: the lower unemployment goes, the higher the stigma of unemployment (and resume gaps).
Although low unemployment is in nearly all respects something to be celebrated, it's effects on the unemployed can be devastating on a number of levels. While "misery loves company" speaks to the the lowest part of human nature and psychology, relatively isolated unemployment against a general backdrop of widespread prosperity, with the economy "humming" along, makes the unemployed person into a true outcast, basically a "bum," and certainly a "loser."
This week observant Jews read in the Torah the story of Sodom and Gemorrah, where normal human sympathy was outlawed and people required by law to be basically selfish.
If you can imagine anybody being president of such a place, you might think of Donald Trump. In many ways, not just the president but the whole society has a kind of resonance.
1
Ah the gig economy. An endless supply of low paying temp jobs. After 50 years of steadily moving up the ladder I am about to step off. But the last 20 years have been one job after another, and thanks to someone suing someone these jobs can’t last longer than 18 months and rarely come with health insurance let alone retirement. I couldn’t get a job with any company where they have online applications and personality tests. When the companies start doing that to SVPs and above it will end.
19
Recently, our company had all the managers take “personality” tests. Apparently, this is required of all new applicants. My boss and I were hysterical laughing when we got our results. In today’s world, neither one of us probably would have been hired! By the way, we are one of the top performing units in our district.
18
And once you finish laughing it’s terrifying. What dies it mean for you if they restructure your division out?
5
Job applications: I quit counting after 300. Result: 1 phone interview and a whole lot of crickets.
16
Skilled jobs are found through people you know - people that have enjoyed working with you in the past and are willing to recommend you. The response rate of applying for jobs online is very very low and barely worth the effort. How does one build this network of advocates? - by doing your job very well and exceeding expectations, bringing a great attitude to work to leave a lasting impression.
9
@soohumm Works great until your former coworkers are in the same boat. Plus, time equals distance. 6 months is a career lifetime and past alliances don't necessarily stay resilient.
19
I’ve lied on almost every resume I’ve ever submitted and gotten every job I’ve interviewed for. Sorry. It works. Time to get creative, friends!
15
@Olivia Until you interview for a position where they require a skills test. These tests don't lie.
13
@Olivia Or, if it comes out during a background check, they will withdraw the offer.
7
@Olivia Yup...worked for Trump!
8
20 years ago I was an engineering consultant in the semiconductor industry. $105/hour at 40 hours/week was normal for this kind of highly skilled position. My contract was directly with the firm; nothing in between me and the work. These days, contracting firms have shoehorned their way between the skilled worker and the company. I now contract through one of these contract firms becasue the main company, where I actually work, forces people to fo through the contracting firms. Today, I make $75/hour at 40 hours/week. I'm building out multi-layer neural networks in a machine learning environment. Not a lot of people can say they have that skill set. But I'm making $100k/year less today than I made 20 years ago and I feel very fortunate. I know plenty of highly skilled engineers who have effectively been priced out of the job market. Some of them work at Home Depot for $15/hour. And some of them have PhDs in mathematics, physics, electrical engineering, etc.. Just another example of the wage gap expansion.
35
@XXX
I too am a (former?) electrical engineering consultant, but I am no longer able to find work at anything over $15/hour. The middle-men that you speak of are not only taking the gravy from consulting work, they are acting as a tollgate for parties unknown. Here in the Minneapolis area, free-lance engineering consulting is a thing of the past. Employment is controlled by a small number (maybe a dozen) recruiting and temp agencies. They now control the market, and decide who works and who doesn't.
This is also why you don't see anything really new and exciting anymore in terms of products and business models. Everything has stagnated. By destroying the free-lance market, these middle men have also destroyed all hope that an entrepreneur can bring a new idea to market. Consultancy was the traditional way to germinate new ideas. And if your new technology is disruptive, these same middle men (who are utterly dependent on large companies) will squash and terminate your new idea at the behest of their cronies.
This also seems to be what's behind the political situation in Hong Kong. No longer can an entrepreneur 'do their thing'. It's all about centralized control now.
15
Great as for shuttling kids into STEM studies. It’s a scam to create oversupply and thus drive down costs.
8
My dad lost his job December 2018 and is experiencing the same exact thing. When people bring up the low unemployment rate, I have to think about whether or not this has personally affected before I form an opinion about it. My mom has chronic health conditions and lost insurance. Unemployment has created so much despair in my family despite reported unemployment low numbers.
31
@Brittney Lindstrom Ageism is real. I see it all the time. Have your dad find a contract employment firm; it pays them to place him. A 3 month contract is better than a 0 month contract.
24
Funny how these complaints about joblessness always start with somebody who is a "creative". Guess what, society has a surfeit of "creative" people thanks to the diploma mills formerly known as universities. Follow your passion, off a cliff.
On the other hand there is a massive skills gap in less glamorous jobs, where labor is scarce and wages can be high. Check out Mike Rowe ("Dirty Jobs") and his postings on social media. You don't even need a degree. And when society decides to rid itself of those clipboard-wielding parasites known as "HR" it will be found that many jobs do not require advanced education of any kind.
40
@Daedalus “Creatives” are hired by ad agencies, Apple (pays more to the best creatives than to the best technical workers), design companies, as well as by “obvious” industries such as in the entertainment and theater realms. Additionally, creatives who also have other skills make excellent analysts, journalists, sales workers - the list is long.
16
@Daedalus You wouldn't be able to post a comment or read it without a "creative" to design and publish a web page. You wouldn't be able to criticize the article if it hadn't been written, and your no doubt buy things every day based on the work of marketing creatives.
20
@Daedalus Have to agree with your final comment about HR. Can't come soon enough.
5
One morning seven years ago, I went to work as a field service technician for a major company. I was hit head on by a driver traveling much too fast for the icy road conditions. I have a permanent disability as a result. Other health problems have followed. I am unemployed despite decades of work in electronic engineering. I am a white male in my late fifties. I have been kicked to the curbside. I want to work.
Is it ageism? Health concerns? From comments I read, some of both. What is one to do when the world has written you off?
24
What is one to do?
Well, I read the entire paper now and spend a deal of time commenting here.
6
@PaPaT
Both.
2
I have many skills and much experience having worked in mental health, substance abuse, graphics, date entry, printing and as a cook. My last job was in 2008. I struggled for years to find something and did some independent bar-tending and publishing along the way.
Problems are threefold: Globalized neoliberal economics where productive work is shifted to poor countries and to the gig economy of "independent contract" work without benefits or livable wages, ageism (I'm now in my 60's) and the internet were every known attitude and everything you ever said is researched. For an active public citizen this amounts to a black list eliminating freedom of speech -- if you want a job. Every month thank FDR and the public outcry that won us Social Security which corporate politicians continue to attack.
19
I'm a career coach, specializing in working with career changers. Regardless if you're looking for a job in your current field or looking to change careers, job seekers need to focus their time on networking to find their next job. The vast majority of positions are landed that way, not through applying online.
11
That is pretty common advice, but in my experience, networking is complicated thing, in order to use it you have to know person who is actually doing hiring, or have a strong say over who gets hired. Other situation when the position is filled through networking is when the company in need of certain skill in hurry. Sometimes the company already tried to find somebody but could not, but in this case network advice comes after the screening of formal applications. In my practice, both ways are worthy to pursue, but they both could be deadends
2
I'm certainly not happy to hear these stories of challenging job searches, I feel sorry for these people, but I am happy to hear that I am not alone. Just yesterday (uncanny timing), I counted all of the automated response emails received thanking me for my job application. In 2019, I am have submitted over 150 applications, participated in 11 phone interviews with recruiters and have been invited to four on-site interviews with a hiring manager and team. ZERO offers.
I have 20 years of professional experience in my industry and career performance consistently evaluated as exceeding expectations, plus a bachelor's degree and a collection of training certifications. Yet, I am unable to land a new job. Never before have I had a problem landing a new job.
A recruiter provided me with some advice, that I am taking to heart:
1 - I am removing from my resume the year I graduated from college, as well as the first positions I held after college. This should eliminate age bias.
2 - Before submitting, I copy and paste into my resume the job description for which I am applying. This should eliminate the challenge of an applicant tracking system scanning my credentials for key words.
I refuse to give up on a career that has provided me with much joy!
9
Excellent advice. As a hiring manager I hate resumes that are more than 2 pages and I ignore experience that was over 10 years ago.
Those key word search algorithms that HR departments like to use drives me nuts because they sometimes filter in/out the wrong people and I typically end up asking HR to give me all resumes so I can review them personally. However for those seeking a job it is reality so you need to learn how those systems work and modify your resume.
A few other points of advice; an 'objectives' section is pointless and a waste of precious space. I know what you want, a job where you can put your skills to use - which happens to be what I want from the applicant. The purpose of the resume is to get to an interview and if you make it that far I will find out what your objectives are face to face. Focus on a crisp and to the point resume so I can immediately see what you have to offer.
Let's talk about gaps; Almost half of the resumes I have seen have gaps so you are not alone. Just be prepared to concisely answer what happened. My last hire had a short gap and it's looking like my next hire will also be someone who has a gap of a year but she has skills so I can care less.
Always send a brief thank you note - email is fine unless you are applying to a stationary company. If you forget to send one right away even a few days later is fine too.
11
@Brian P. WOW! Some good tips here! I would love to hear more re: copy and pasting your resume . Curious do you do this instead of uploading it into the applicant system?
1
@Kia I just started this best practice, this week. I was driving myself crazy by constantly scanning my own resume to make certain it had all the key words as the job for which I was applying - each company will have its own vocabulary for the same skill. After pasting the job description at the bottom of my resume, then I upload it into the ATS. I've already had a couple of hits, this week. :)
5
Two words: AGE DISCRIMINATION.
It's supposed to be illegal, but it's blatant, and it's rampant, especially in the advertising industry that Ms Laura Ward once worked in.
I know: I worked in advertising for 25 years, and I've seen the carnage, most of it excused by "loss of an account" or some such thing, but otherwise seemingly arbitrary, except for the age of the person.
The people cited in this story all seem to be 40 or over. That's all it takes. Why aren't policies, laws being (re)designed to EFFECTIVELY deal with this issue?
28
Just wait til unfire-able transgendered women arrive in workplaces across America- I’m afraid the middle aged ladies who are already deeply unpopular will be fired in droves.
We still haven’t worked out that equality for women thing.
4
Yep! Thousand of applications. Resume writing is the definition of insanity. Luck got me a union. A collective voice, even in stark disagreements, is preferable to the alternatives. Corporations are not people. Corporation are corporations. People don’t get corporate tax breaks.
10
Sounds like my life for the past 10 months: cobbling together freelance, part time and temporary work, worried about lack of health insurance that actually lets me see a doctor, not putting anything aside for retirement this year. Jobs posted at 30-40% less than what I was making, one was 75% less(!) that the recruiter said I should be honoured to accept. After 40+ years in health care, with advanced credentials, I am finding that if I want to work, I have to go backwards 25 years salary and job level. I know I cannot expect to receive compensation based on past employment, but SHEESH! how about some modicum of respect for what I can bring to the table? Every applicant should at the very least get an acknowledgement of a CV received. And EVERY SINGLE APPLICANT should receive a memo of whether or not they were successful (still waiting after 6 weeks for a response to a job I actually got a face-to-face interview for).
17
Recruiter here - you are seeing a multitude of factors converge and creating this situation.
Every company that has a nightmare hiring process probably has a backstory of some nightmare employee they couldn't get rid of.
If you notice most companies don't hire to train anymore. Why? If it doesn't work out and the happen to be a "protected class" - you're at risk for a lawsuit, even if the separation is warranted.
The more regulatory and legal requirements you require businesses to adhere to, the less likely they will hire full time.
Divorcing medical insurance from employment is a start.
Vastly reforming the H-1B and OPT Visa system would help, although that process itself is often a bigger cost to employers than hiring an American.
I don't know how you fix ageism, which does occur. Most of it is human nature - I often hear from managers they want someone they can train as they see fit, not someone who is already established. Younger workers command less salary, and have a lower benefits cost.
Technology is enabling companies to do less with more, they're outsourcing once critical functions overseas (HR, Finance, IT) to save costs.
Geographic mobility is at an all time low - many circumstances (child/elder care) make it impossible to move elsewhere for a new job.
I think Andrew Yang may be right, many jobs will simply be automated away in the coming years - we're going to need UBI.
18
@Brian Thank you for a persepctive from the "other side".
I am out of the workforce (retired thank God), but did work for MegaCorp where I saw firsthand what you speak of about not being able to get rid of problem employees without an act of Congress. I left in 2013, but it was already stressed to us about making sure reviews for lucky people who DID get on were accurate and truthful because once 6 months was up, they were "in".
And no manager wanted to be the one who "Approved" such a hire, or, who did a poor evaluation that allowed a temporary problem to become permanent.
I will say that it ended "networking" because if you recommended someone who didn't work out ( more times than not) you yourself were toast.
Than GOD I'm retired. 35 years with Corporate job, that I KNOW I wouldn't have a prayer with today. But, I lived WAY below my means so now I can fear spending my nest egg in case SS goes belly up or my pension provider does.
4
Brian, with all due respect, the ageism dwarfs your other complaints.
I have seen dozens of people in advertising, on both the creative and the account side though mostly on the creative, who after 15 or 20 years of often outstanding service, come to work one morning, get their cup of coffee and settle into their desks, only to be greeted by an HR person and security and told to get up and leave. They are not even allowed the dignity of gathering their personal belongings: “we will send them to you”. The security person locks the office and walks the employee to the door.
5
@unreceivedogma I think divorcing medical insurance from employment would help a lot. Older have more health care costs. Keeping a younger workforce keeps the health insurance costs lower. Companies know that their premiums will increase each year after the insurance company reviews the prior year claims data.
3
In the past few decades, business schools and MBAs have seemingly overtaken much of the world. Once, people would get a job, perhaps based on qualifications for the job, perhaps through some contact, or just fall into it. Then, they would learn what and how to do in that field, and, if they were lucky and the stars lined up, they might rise through the ranks. Now, businesses seem to be run by professional, degreed managers who probably have no experience in any particular business - they are like Hoover, their business is business, and that’s how they run things, by the math, by the spreadsheets, by the algorithms, since that is what they learned in B school. Tops in their training: labor is a cost and it must be reduced and curtailed ruthlessly because that’s easiest. Employees and their benefits are a drag on business performance and no way to earn a bonus, so getting rid of benefits comes first, then getting rid of employees. If it turns out it is absolutely impossible to run the operation without any employees, lay off a bunch of people, make sure the rest live in constant panic the same will happen to them, and make everyone do the work of 2 or 3; what a savings! Next, outsource what you can to contractors and split one (formerly 2 or 3) jobs into several parttime positions, no benefits, lower pay. Keep aiming for the ultimate in labor efficiency: serfs or actual slaves. That’s the B school model. Best of all, there’s an app for that!
20
It is really simple, folks. If you're 50 and a 30 year old can do your exact job - you are not getting hired. Too many reasons to list. A younger person is cheaper, easier to push around, healthier (=more productive), nicer to look at, more adaptable, etc. We all have to figure out what to do with that knowledge and there's no one solution that fits all. For some this could be building personal brand, for some developing passive income streams, for some cultivating their networks, for some shifting to vocational trades (can't find a plumber in this city, come on). But yeah, if you're, say, an FP&A manager approaching 45 with no differentiated skills and no network to fall back on - be concerned, be very concerned...
As for the 50-something person taking "social media marketing" classes, this is truly sad - they are being sold a bill of goods. She's not going to compete with a 25 yo who's been fluent in Snapchat since birth. In fact if you have to take a social media class, it is probably a disqualifier in and of itself.
25
Agree re 50-Something. Wonder if she’s able to think outside the box in filled not related to marketing which is challenging field. Maybe take coding classes instead? Find out what’s needed in her area and train for that.
2
@Sophie K there are a lot of factors I had to consider when choosing my courses. First, it needs to have a certain amount of hours attached to it in order for me to get my benefits extended. And it has to be labeled as “in demand.” In other words, I couldn’t take some frivolous course two times a week and get my benefits extended. I have to work for them. So right away, that eliminated a lot of courses. There was already a bundled course of social media marketing and design. Obviously it is not just about how to post on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter which I already know how to do, as do we all. It will be looking at SEO, SEM and analytics. And in fact there are many job descriptions for creative and marketing project managers that do mention social media and the associated analytics.
7
How about socialism instead?
The most blatant I ever experienced was when a hiring manager at an interview turned to me as we were walking to the lobby. I had pitched my work on neurologically-based/inspired algorithms during the interview, and he said, "You know what I'm hoping? I'm hoping that people like you will invent a chip that can be implanted in my brain so that I will still be able to think when I turn 50."
I was 52 at the time. He doesn't trust me to be able to think at my age, but he wants me to build a chip to enable him to?
Like all other forms of bigotry, age discrimination isn't logical.
26
Count me in the group of those who can’t find work. I have 2 Master degrees and had a stellar career until I became disabled and then laid off. I have applied for so many jobs and have only had a handful of interviews. My competitors are usually people 20-30 years younger. Most of the jobs are for ¼ to ½ my last salary. Many jobs require skills I don’t have - like heavy lifting, a specific computer program, licenses, frequent travel, etc.
I am only surviving because my daughter invited me to live with her.
I’ve given up. I’m hoping to die before my savings drys up.
9
It's not just in the USA.
A field note... I was at my local falafel joint the other day here in Toronto, chatting with the franchisee/owner. He was panicking that his sales are down over last year -- so much so that he's going to have to take a second job in addition to slaving over a hot donor kebab oven all day. He said all the franchisees talk, and they're all hurting. He figures because of the cost of rented and bought housing going up so much, people are eating out less and less.
Don't know how factual that is, but I do know that asking $1,500/mo for a mouldy one-bdrm basement apt with drywall like feta cheese shouldn't be legal. But my younger friends assure me it's not only legal, it's the norm.
I also know I have not been able to raise my fees as a freelance creative in 20 years -- despite my cost of living pretty much doubling since then. The market simply won't accept it.
I don't know what the practicable fix is, but I can certainly understand why so many young Americans are now taking a hard look at far-left socialism as a viable political option in the next election.
They have nothing, thus nothing to lose.
24
The government paid for me to get my PhD from Columbia University, but I’ve been unable to land a job since a decade ago, when I had a child and relocated to Oregon. I don’t consider it a measure of ‘job growth’ when we’re talking about cashier jobs at McDonald’s. That is not economic growth, it’s abject failure.
27
Apparently Portland has the highest concentration of college educated people in underemployment. Meaning too many people with multiple college degrees working minimum wage jobs.
1
Kind of obviously, we should require employers to tell applicants whether or not they were hired or are being considered further. You tell the public there's a job, you tell applicants if you're hiring them or not. But I know lots of people like Laura Ward, all of whom have in common that they're older than 20 or so and need to make a living wage with normal adult benefits.
Age discrimination, along with all the other kinds of discrimination, are massive, and having to apply for nearly all jobs online lets employers mask this. When you do find clear age discrimination online, as I recently did, most states are probably much like mine in only pretending to enforce the laws. In California you have to get permission from the state to file an age discrimination complaint; you must schedule an interview with a state employee to seek permission; and the "next appointment" for that interview is routinely two months away (literally true now, not just a figure of speech). The federal agency coordinates with the state one, so youcan't go to them for anything quicker. The job is long gone by then, and perhaps that's the point.
5
Age discrimination is indeed alive and well. The online job engine companies are seldom garnering returns from potential employers, having sent my information to possibly a hundred companies this past year. I can count on one hand replies and interviews generated from scouring them.
I’m an award winning designer who was previously employed by Major League Baseball and spearheaded the look and feel of one of the most popular sports apps on the planet but I’m 53 and that’s the first thing they see. It’s truly disheartening. I feel your pain.
23
@Kenji Takabayashi
With you, brother.
@Kenji Takabayashi same here. I am in the same situation with a stellar resume and top -c level interaction and accomplishments. If I take that off my resume, as has been recommended, you get a temp. An unskilled temp. Just that. And that’s the truth.
1
First the employment numbers are absurd.
Work an hour a week your included.
Real rate is closer to 10 %.
Does not include under employed.
And you have an absurd minimum wage.
Wage slaves with health tied to the slaver!
Crazy bad.
6
Blame President Obama, President Trump or whatever boogeyman you choose but the unfortunate reality remains the same: many of the jobs created since the recession are low-wage, often part-time jobs, that offer few (if any) benefits.
17
Thanks for keeping this issue alive! Millions of chronically unemployed/underemployed people, with faltering economics, are the big club held over the head of employees, along with the cost of health insurance--there is always someone else to hire, so wages have been suppressed and FT jobs cut, outsourced or converted to contract jobs--while stocks have been high and companies awash in cash (which they saved, by paying lousy wages to many). We also have very low levels of union jobs, and those have always helped keep wages up for other jobs, since workers had choices. Can you live on what you will earn and save by age 50, for the rest of your life? Surprise, that's the new normal. Go into any big box store, and the workers are young people, and those age 60 and up--working the only jobs they can get.
Lately, stoking the generational "blame game" has become an easy way to sucker young people into thinking that eliminating older people from the work force would solve everything. Really? This has been happening for ten years now (!) and those who aren't earning, aren't spending, either--there go more jobs for young people, too.
The real wall in the U.S. is between the financially secure and those who struggle and it's getting higher, and can only be changed through coordinated, government effort. See https://www.economicpolicyresearch.org/retirement-equity-lab for the best summary of the economic reality for too many--and hopefully we can change it in the future.
9
This has been my life for the last 4 years. When I was let go from a major tech firm with a decent severance package, I thought I'd be back at work by the end of the year.
I was not. Since then, I've networked like a boss, answered hundreds (if not thousands) of job listings, had a dozen or so interviews, some of which went quite well, then...no word from anyone.
I landed my current gig 2 weeks ago, and it's a 2-year contract. My agency has a health insurance plan, which is a little cheaper than my current marketplace plan. So that's a win, for these times.
Corporations think that hiring for the gig is great for the bottom line, but they are getting people worried about paying for health insurance, who have no history or cultural familiarity with the companies that hire them by the project, and they pay a significant fee to the agencies, rather than have to provide benefits.
As for me, I've survived on three longer-term assignments that took up about 23 of my last 48 months.
The rest of the time was stitching things together, cutting back until we could cut no more, and withdrawing from a 401(k) that was supposed to grow until I retired.
I don't see myself retiring.
This isn't a good way to live.
My wife, who receives social security and Medicare, still works a part-time job to cover our expenses.
I'm a tail-end Boomer, and when people accuse us of hogging all the money, I feel like turning out my pockets and saying #notallboomers.
28
I used to get between $35-60 per hour on average. Now I get $15.40. Masters degree, expertise and experience. My husband too. Masters. Both of us only get part time. He has 3 jobs. I have 2. Plus 2 little kids. We're 44 years old. We live within our means, no date nights or vacations or extras. No company wants to be responsible for benefits. We both work for multi million dollar companies. But we're not so sure any of our jobs will turn full time.
22
Bill Murray is the ONLY over 60 person offered a job, other than those running for president. It does not matter if you are well educated or looking for fast food jobs. How many people Murray's age do you see working anywhere? Listen to the insult commercials, "in this economy if someone is out of work it's because there's something wrong with them."
We should not vote for anyone who could not get a regular job outside politics.
10
President Trump has never had a job in his life, went to reform school upstate instead of public Jamaica High School, and has put in place a web of legal barriers designed to hide whether or not he actually went to Wharton, or graduated, as he claimed, or if he was thrown out for flunking and cheating, as seems most likely. Yet, through pluck and determination, he forged a career as an international scam artist and money launderer and went on to hoodwink the rubes into sending enough Electors from depressed and rural districts to rise to the pinnacle of the pinnacle, President of the United States. There’s a moral in there someplace, but it becomes clear only in the locker rooms of nouveau gauche country clubs.
10
Perhaps this is an example of supply and demand.
My impression is a lot of people want to go into marketing.
I see recent graduates working intern positions for little or no money.
On the other hand, software engineers are in demand and we are bringing in people on H-1B visas.
4
@Independent
PS - I am 65 and ageism is not a problem.
Technology used ten years is no longer used and I have to keep up.
But so does anyone in this field.
1
@Independent
The H-1B visas have nothing to do with demand. The immigrant engineers will work cheaper. There was an article in the Times not too long ago describing that the laid-off worker are forced to train their replacements in order to get a decent severance.
16
H1B visa holders are cheaper. They take American jobs.
16
Imagine having "gaps" in your resume because you are female, Black, disabled or LGBT, especially the T. These individuals don't find a job in their twenties because of hiring discrimination, then land a job just long enough to turn 40 or 50. Then "age" hits, then unemployment, then more "gaps". Meanwhile conservatives quote one part of the Bible in denying them food, ignoring other Bible passages. Stay at home mothers are betrayed by the same people who tell them all will work out if they quit working. Primaries matter, elections matter, boycotts matter and Black Lives Matter. All of America is getting the shaft in some form, but some are tricked into thinking it's "opportunity". It's not too late, but soon it will be. Wake up, sleepy!
8
In Ireland they only allow one civil service job per family to be sure everyone gets a fair chance and to prevent some greedy families from having two good-paying jobs with benefits and others having nothing. I know it’s not politically correct to say this, but the long-term unemployment rate, crime and homeless problem have all escalated since the late 1970’s when married women flooded the workforce and took jobs away from men with families to support and from single women who don’t have a husband or father or male relative to support them. There is a huge difference between working to survive vs working for intellectual stimulation and personal status. Maybe if we followed Ireland’s example and did something about the gluttony of some families having two six figure jobs with great benefits and others having nothing or working minimum wage jobs with no benefits we could equalize the playing field and decrease poverty, crime and unemployment.
4
@Susan Shapiro Are you really arguing that it's better for society for married women to be economically dependent on men? I haven't "taken" anyone's job away from them: I was the most qualified candidate for a hard-to-fill position, and I resent you believing that it was owed to a man.
21
@Susan Shapiro Crime is way down in the US since the '70s, as is long-term unemployment.
Your entire hypothesis is baseless.
7
@susan Shapiro the employment web sites are full of job placement ads. There are plenty of jobs, but a mismatch in location and also age discrimination due to issues related to both mentioned in many previous comments.
1
"Bottled messages dropped in the ocean." Without knowing someone who is willing to pick up your bottle how do you get noticed enough to be considered?
2
"Even in some of the hottest labor markets in the country — let alone lagging rural regions and former industrial powerhouses — workers, including skilled ones like Ms. Ward, say they cannot find jobs that provide a middle-class income and don’t come with an expiration date."
Are these NOT the people we most see yelliing and screeching approval at ALL of Trump's rallies?!?!?
I live in a rural area...and thank God I'm retired and have a pension. I also saved money over my career. BUT...now I am too scared to spend any of it. I'm afraid of the pension provider going belly up, the Government abolishing the PBGC (pension benefit guarantee corp), social security getting chopped. So, I don't spend. I conserve for my future.
Yet, I live in an area where most support this clown of a President, even though they are still working 10.00 an hour jobs with no benefits. ALL the kids in our school district get breakfeast because the parents "can't afford" to feed them that meal ( although same parents have I-phones...don't quite get that...I see them in Walmart paying with SNAP cards while clutching thier phones for dear life).
I feel for the writers below. But I also fear the fairy tales being spead by Trump will allow him to "win" again....
Rural and depressed areas where folks don't have 400.00 to fix the car. Trump voters every one.
17
The gig economy grew during the Obama presidency. It was hailed as a recovery. That economy continues to grow - with all of its nuances, benefits and features. Trump changed nothing, neither will the next president. The only thing that will change is the tone of the NYT articles which are a continuous stream of OP-ED pieces.
Our forward-thinking globalist path forward? Walmart - who'd have thought?
3
Please stop making assumptions.
No, we’re NOT all at Trump rallies. Some might be. Others, like me, are not.
You have to have a phone and access to a computer and the internet to find work these days.
4
@Patricia
My assumptions only apply to those I see voicing thier rabid support for Trump.
I KNOW people "need" phones and computers.
I just can't escape the irony of my rural poor neighbors going to rallies for Trump. Western PA carried Trump. In my small town, they are still sure a coal mine will be drilled any day now, and everyone will go back to work with a 40 year career and a gold watch. I kid you not.
IN Pennsylvania. The heart of natural gas country. Waiting for coal to return.
We barely have dial up internet here. NO company will relocate here with good jobs.
MAGA!
1
The reality in this country is that your economically viable life ends at age 50 regardless of education or skill set. After that you have to prepare yourself for self employment including contract work. Even if you are successful at it going forward you are regarded as less creditworthy and you face the high cost of individual health insurance (you know those wonderful plans the experts, pundits and politicians say that Americans don't want to give up for universal coverage). A pension, what's that? Retirement, out of the question, work until you drop. Yes we are busy making America great again for the 1%.
20
@Steve
Agree entirely.
I also recall a manager at a top news organization (CBS) who informed me recently that part of their job was knocking off anyone over the age of 50.
10
I know where those jobs are: Republicans in Congress cut unemployment benefits back when Barack Obama was President. It didn't matter how many people were out of work. they cut them back to 13 weeks. After 13 weeks which might have been good when everyone worked in manufacturing, you are no longer on the unemployment rolls. Voila, low unemployment because you aren't counting... well nearly everyone except fast food workers and convenience store clerks.
Think about that next time you vote.
11
A meme from another time that still applies: There are no jobs but there's plenty of work to be done.
4
@freyda
Yeah, that's real helpful when the rent is due.
6
Employment statistics are not good
to provide a clear picture. The methodology needs to be revised.
It will be better to categorize jobs
into full time $60k to $100k with
benefits and hourly jobs at $12/hr
or less with no benefits and less than
30 hrs/week and further breakdown
into working for Uber/Lyft. Looks
like there are many jobs at or near
minimum wage with no benefits.
These jobs are likely to disappear
at the whiff of recession.
17
According to Ms. Ward: "I don’t know what all those jobs out there are". I agree, and see the same situation here in Minnesota.
I routinely use the job search tool at MinnesotaWorks.net (the site financed by the State of Minnesota). Over the past few months they have begun to identify 'expired' job postings, and I was shocked at how many are now identified this way. I'm an electrical engineer, and I'm guessing that of the (non-construction) engineering related jobs, 80% are now identified as 'expired' on their website.
This confirms a long-held perception that most job postings do no represent actual open positions. Instead, they seem to be used for harvesting information for the purpose of creating private databases. Employers, instead of posting a position and reviewing applications, now turn to these private databases and cherry-pick applicants from there. The fact that there seems to be a large section of the economy that are now unemployeable probably means that these databases are linked with other personal information. This would include traditional discriminatory information such as age, sex, race, political views, and health of the people on the database, as well as misinformaiton and disinformation.
This would explain Ms. Ward's situation as well as my own: we have become unemployable because of information held on private (secretly maintained) dossiers that we are unable to access or manage. Once unemployable, we no longer affect Government statistics.
16
@W I think Zip Recruiter is a perfect example of this paradigm where companies are in the business of selling data not filling jobs.
6
In other words, things are still fine for prejudiced employers who'd prefer not to pay benefits and who don't mind forcing their existing employees to take on extra responsibilities without receiving extra pay. And AI makes being prejudiced with plausible deniability even easier.
11
All I see here: age/salary discrimination. Not because those of us over 40 can't do the work. We certainly can! Companies just don't want to pay us what we're worth!
Why not hire a 28 yr old for half the salary you'd have to pay me? I totally get it in our bottom line/shareholder/dividend world.
14
I'm retiring from a high-paying tech job in the next year. I've been doing the tech interviews for my replacement. Ninety-five percent of the applicants are male, non-citizens (mostly from India). Why aren't more American citizen pursuing tech careers? Not web page 'coding': but more challenging, interesting work. These jobs are out there and pay 6+ figures.
7
My observation is that many companies filled jobs with people from India, starting with visas and third parties. They could pay less, and it was very fashionable—consultant like Gardner and Accenture pushed this hard. I’ve seen a CIO challenged by the CEO for not doing this after a consultant told the CEO this was a missed opportunity. So, a lot of Americans were effectively blocked from the types of technology jobs you need to build skill and expertise. Then, as people from India achieved and rose in organizations, they preferred to hire people like themselves — Indians, creating another obstacle for Americans in technology. The solution to this issue is to fix the horribly broken visa program, and reward companies that hire Americans. Today, we do the opposite.
23
@raftriver - Well, you still have to start at the bottom, and many Americans don't want to do this.
At my former employer, I did run into one fellow who did this. He got a degree in Computer Science, and joined the bank as a Java programmer. As a new guy, he was given the most undesirable work of maintaining old, beat-up systems. He did a good job, learned a lot about working in the real world, and after 18 months resigned to take a position with Google, doing interesting work at a high salary.
2
Sadly, the profession or job category you used to have may no longer exist, or doesn't "want" you. We need more creativity and networking to help people who have been permanently displaced for whatever reason. For me, I was hired at a part-time (with benefits, fortunately) for a position after 40. But when I realized the job had no future, I started applying for jobs outside my field and fortunately, my new boss was willing to hire someone about to turn 50. Getting the new job took about 5 years, however, and I've never caught up financially. I recently had my summer of rejection when I made it to the first interview round for several jobs but wasn't chosen. The pay increase would have been substantial and in one case, someone much younger was chosen and in the other someone a few years older but whose background outclassed mine.
3
My husband has been searching in vain for an appropriate position for 1.5 years. He has two undergraduate degrees, and is an accomplished IT professional. He cannot get past the age issue (he's 40 and grey) and he knows of two positions he's lost to younger candidates. It's very frustrating. Add to that the automation of the hiring process - a new issue altogether. Now when you apply online, you don't have the opportunity to even submit a cover letter, which always went a long way to showing you can write, think, and offered a way to distinguish oneself.
12
He needs to work on getting recruiters to talk to him and submit his resume. It is much more effective than submitting resumes directly. Just a tip from being in a similar situation.
1
Ten year has moved up in last three weeks. Fed rates don’t impact mortgage rates. U sort of missed the point here in terms of economics and mortgage market procedures.
1
The best thing I ever did over 30 years ago was pursue self-employment. 3 person business, never made a fortune but never had to worry about economic downturns or being laid off. Slow and steady.
15
What I’ve been telling young people.
1
Most new businesses fail and you need capital.
7
I have a Master’s Degree, and have been at the leading edge of my field since 2004. My work history is strong, with extended periods of employment at top companies. I have been looking for work for over two years, working gig jobs to bring in funds that don’t sustain me. I send out resumes every week for jobs that are a perfect fit for my experience. Rarely are the submissions even acknowledged. I can’t survive this way. It’s destroying me.
22
@Julie
Feeling for you. Hang in there.
4
Just bad reporting not to call out age discrimination as a crucial factor in why these people--and many others--have not been able to secure jobs when they are qualified. I long ago took graduation dates for college and grad school off my resume, but this variety of prejudice is insidious and virtually impossible to prove. For those who point to higher insurance costs for older employees, consider studies that demonstrate far higher productivity in this age group--fewer "sick" days and no maternity benefits or lost time for older women. Ageism is a deeply ingrained societal prejudice, plain and simple. Employers shouldn't be able to get away with it but I see no real way of stopping it.
23
Another reason we need optional Medicare buy-in for those over 50. Difficult to find another decent job w/insurance, and many would like to leave the job market early to help with aging relatives.
24
Another cherry picked story. Just as easily another essay could have been written about getting a higher paying job due to the tight labor market.
16
What are the statistics?
3
@Jerry Davenport
Thanks for your comment. The Times writes regularly about the job market and we always make sure to give you as much context as possible and a sense of the number of people we're talking about.
In this story, for example, I point out:
"The continuing strength of the labor market has been one of the most remarkable economic achievements since the recession petered out. One hundred and eight months of consecutive job gains have coaxed discouraged and disabled Americans back into the work force and raised wages and hours, particularly for those at low end of the pay scale."
"National averages, of course, can mask distinct geographical differences. Workers may not have the specific skills a particular employer needs, or live where a job opening is."
But that:
"Many more show up in a broader measure of unemployment, which includes people who are working part time but would prefer full-time employment, and those who want to work but have given up an active job search. That rate in September was 6.9 percent, some 11 million people.
In other stories, I've written about the frustrations of employers who say they can't find good workers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/business/economy/hiring-slowdown-job-market.html?
searchResultPosition=5
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/business/economy/jobs-report.html?searchResultPosition=5
147
@Patricia Cohen Jerry must be a millennial with a good (probably tech) job. In a few years he likely will be feeling the hot breath of age discrimination himself. Once he hits 40 or 45, jobs will be a lot harder to come by. All good jobs are tech jobs and tech people don't hire old people: too slow, not willing to be on call 24/7, too set in their ways. This is coming for you, Jerry.
65
I can't wait till the Medicaid work requirements kick in. In addition to un- and underemployed, we can look forward to un- and underinsured...if we aren't already.
6
At least it's not only me. This article brought to light that there are others, thus promoting a collective sentiment. That's what it's about really: a network.
Further cold applying after already having done 700+ applications seems to be a lost cause, especially when I saw someone with a Stanford MBA jobless after 1000+. I myself have a masters from a top 3 school in its field, but having gone through this monotonous ordeal, several questions arose. Is it my skillset? Resume wording? Timing? The competition? Not having a referral?
In any case, I implemented a multi-pronged approach to address those factors. I've been on the hunt for 9 months now, learned skills representative of the roles I desired, and had resume feedback from folks at McKinsey, J.P. Morgan, and Goldman Sachs. Apart from an ideal role at a Fortune 500 company, the majority of my apps involved mid-sized and growing companies.
Enter headhunter reach-outs, Eventbrite searches, and informational interview requests. When the event occurred at a college I had no relation to or was in a foreign language, I'd attend anyway hoping my personality can get a connect. When event tickets cost $700, I developed a method of getting an in. Can't forget Googling "how to network with people". Those got me referrals which put my resume to the top of the queue, none of which progressed me to the interview phase.
In spite of it all, interview obtainment rate shot up as of late. Try new things. You'll get there.
9
@Avocado Toast
the irony is that any employer worth their salt would hire you in an instant if they knew the creative and persistent character traits you possess and which you are using to pursue your goal of getting an interview
Re: Laura Ward’s job hunting notebooks, one word: Spreadsheets. It may highlight a deeper problem that she continues to use an inefficient and horribly outdated method to manage her job search.
11
@Julie Moran Outdated, perhaps, but it works for me. I still find something deeply satisfying about putting pen to paper. Not to mention, I think the story would not have had the same down to Earth quality if it was just showing a few pictures of some spreadsheets.
I’ve learned three project management programs in the past three years, one at each temp job, and by the time I left, everyone was coming to me with questions on said programs.
16
Very good story here. There was a story on PBS last night about a teacher with a full time job and children who had to take a part time "boxing" job with a manufacturing company so she could afford to leave her parents home. Two jobs would have been my worst nightmare. This is a terrible economy for younger people. People want to work and the jobs and pay are not there!
9
AGE DISCRIMINATION. I'm 62 and trying to get back into the job market. The implicit bias against a female my age I've experienced is breathtaking. Total waste of talent.
41
I get that it is hard but now listen to the 30 year olds like myself trying to get into a position you just enjoyed for 30 years. I landed right where I need to be and when I walked in, I saw a much older crowd than expected. I said to myself when are these people going to retire. I hear constant stories of how long they have been here. Well then move over and allow your Grandaughter , Daughter, Niece, fulfill this position. You paid your dues, now collect your Social and enjoy life the best way you can. Then I hear well I will be on a budget, well NEWS FLASH we are all on a BUDGET!! I'm 30 with 2 kids and I'm on a budget thats life!! We need to get in get out and enjoy and recycle our positions to the new generation, trying just as hard as you are. Find yourself with a partime , and FYI don't be so descriptive especially about school-thats what gives your AGE!!
4
When your boss discriminates against your grandfather, ask yourself why? Perhaps he has too much experience and they want to pay you cheap or are secretly planning to outsource you the next fiscal year. Ageism exploits millennials too.
73
Why not just advocate for a Logan’s Run rule. Though in that story 30 year-olds were “old”.
7
@LadyP. Not going to happen, LadyP. You don’t get to kick people out of the workforce at your convenience - it’s illegal, for one thing, although the laws are poorly enforced.
Social Security is insufficient to support anyone through 20 years of “retirement,” a/k/a/, forced unemployment. Nor are you likely, with your two kids and a “budget that fits life,” to save enough to supplement social security throughout those 20-25 years. You won’t be “enjoying life”; that’s for certain.
Blaming older workers for not retiring, or imagining that they are somehow responsible for their predicament, will not solve your problem. People are living 20 years longer than they used to live, and need to work. Your problem is that employers are underpaying everyone, including you; understaffing; and not planning their BUDGETS) to recognize that their employees will not be retiring in their 50s and 60s, but working well into their 70s.
The prejudice and ranting of those in their 30s will come back to bite them in twenty years. I know; your parents are my clients. Rampant in the workplace as healthy baby boomers age, age discrimination costs money, causes untold, undeserved suffering, has impaired the health of millions of older workers - i.e., costs lives.
Or is your theory that, if we can’t support ourselves for 25 years without a job, we should accommodate our younger fellow citizens and just graciously, courteously - die?
35
The unemployment rate is misleading, though. It doesn't account for the unemployed who have stopped looking for work, the partially employed, and the profusion of low-wage jobs in this McDonald'sTrump economy.
9
As a 30-year member of the staffing industry, I have certainly seen and heard stories like Ms. Ward’s—and I sympathize with her frustration. There are certainly times when the cycle of temporary assignments seems endless and the search for a full-time role seems futile. However, there are also many cases where the opposite is true. After reading this article, I pulled our statistics for 2019. I found that through October, more than 150 of our temporary employees were converted to full time hires by our clients (approx. 15/month). A lot of this success depends on the open, honest communication between the staffing firm, the client, and the candidate. Realistic expectations of performance goals, compensation requirements, and likelihood of headcount/budget allowance for the full-time hire can make all the difference.
While there are no guarantees that a temp role will convert to perm, if the expectations are clear and the performance is there we do see very good results. Further, we do not see the stigma of a “choppy, temporary” resume referred to here as being the same stumbling block it might have been a decade ago. On the contrary, freelance or temporary work is often seen as an indication of being industrious, flexible and motivated.
Job hunting requires some guidance, persistence and creativity. I would be happy to help Ms. Ward or any other motivated individual navigate this difficult, but certainly not impossible process.
5
@Glenn Bernstein, The Execu|Search Group agreed. I’ve had three maternity leave jobs the last three years. One got extended for two months, and one resulted in an additional 8 months of work, long after the woman on leave had returned. Flexible? Yes I most certainly am now!
6
Then hire her today. I read NYT daily, so I will be expecting the follow up article about her new job soon. She has shown initiative and determination.
11
@Glenn Bernstein, The Execu|Search Group
"I would be happy to help Ms. Ward or any other motivated individual navigate this difficult, but certainly not impossible process."
For free?
14
The corporate world with its 21% tax break, is enjoying a big publicized Wall Street boom. Where are all the jobs Trump and the GOP promised middle Americans? They never materialized and the GOP knew they wouldnt. Corporations plowed that money into their companies and bought back their stock. It was a shameful thing Trump and the GOP did! Americans have been asked to give up Medicaid, food stamps, children's health care and lunches across this country to offset that big tax break. Let's not forget the $2T deficit we now have. Vote them out!!
27
See what happens when you worship at the shrine of the free market, adopt a laissez faire attitude toward business, and allow giant corporations to merge? You get corporate America enriching itself and creating a disposable workforce. Add in age, sexual orientation, and racial discrimination in hiring and it’s a recipe for disaster. They say the future of work is the gig economy; if so, things are going to get even worse for workers unless radical changes are made.
7
Great reporting. I've long wondered if the simplistic focus on the unemployment percentage and jobs-added numbers is masking a harsh truth that the employment market is nowhere near as robust as we're being told. Touting lots of jobs is meaningless if they're part-time, low-wage, no benefits.
I've been fortunate to survive in my current job for 20 years but am facing a pretty likely phase-out in the next year or two. The openings I see in my field pay maybe half what I make now and more and more of them are long-term contract work. Add that to the fact that I'm about to commit the cardinal employment sin of turning 50, and I fear for what the backside of my career will look like. Luckily, my wife and I have always lived frugally and the house should be paid off next year. We're luckier than most.
11
Older applicants should start heavily marketing themselves as ‘able to spell without an app’, and able to write in complete sentences, and ‘experience as a human being - not a bot’. People over 50 have a great laugh reading resumes from college graduates these days. It’s become a parlor game at most parties of talking about outrageous things we see on resumes from young people who cannot spell and have grandiose egos and expectations without a lick of experience. Good luck on your search!
10
Want an exercise is self defeat? Spend your days reading job descriptions. Not getting a single response is just the cherry on top. I have 20 years of IT experience, four undergrad degrees and a masters. I'm aging out of the tech industry at 45...
22
I was laid off at age 55 after 25 years with the same company. My reviews change almost immediately after turning 50 for no good reason. I have been laid off twice since then, and age was the reason.
I recommend to anyone who can do so to assume you will quit working at age 55, so save like that is the case. Get a skill or a business that will allow self-employment, so at least you have control over your life. Vote Democratic.
52
@Robert kennedy also save performance reviews. A radical change like you describe could be the basis for a strong age discrimination suit or, at the very least leverage for more severance.
5
Another article about the so-called strong economy and the so-called low unemployment status we are in. These stories are as phony as the proverbial flying pig. I work in the gig economy, moving from one temporary job to the next one. It is a world of uncertainty. Many of these jobs are short term. Many of these jobs end abruptly, way sooner than originally planned. When a job ends there is no guarantee that the next one starts immediately. And the first moment when the temporary employees are no longer needed they are shown the door immediately. I have been actively engaging in my job search, networking, doing all the things a job seeker is supposed to be doing. As I am over 45 years old I am delivered the distinct message that my services for a full time job are not needed. Age discrimination, a huge component of this matter, is rampant in America. Employers love to discriminate like this because they know they are rarely caught doing so and if caught, are happy to pay a settlement as a business cost. This article highlights the problems of millions of people in our country who are skilled, experienced and ready to work in a full time job on day 1. But American business and our government don’t want this story told because it upsets their narratives about how great the economy is. Keep writing about this situation and it should be front page news every day. The spin doctors must not be allowed to prevail here.
13
Many of these comments echo my situation (over 55 with a resume gap from the 2008 crash), so it wouldn't add anything to describe the specifics of my story. One anecdote:
I was at a prestigious engineering conference this spring. One of the keynotes was an EVP of a large US company - in my opinion, the clear leader in its field. In addition to her operations role, this woman is an executive sponsor of the company's Diversity and Inclusion Council. She rambled for half of her speech about the company's pro-active efforts to make their workforce diverse and inclusive -- a topic of little interest to an audience of engineers and grad students, of whom fewer than half were US residents.
There is no good reason why I should not be working for this company, with my skills, experience, knowledge, connections, reputation and enthusiasm for the company's business strategy. I sort through about a dozen jobs there per week, and apply only to ones that are near-perfect fits, and match my resume almost word-for-word. Nothing but rejections, and only one phone screening in the past five or so years.
This company's Diversity and Inclusion policy prohibits age discrimination. Yet none of the diverse workforce programs that she described address older professionals. I had an opportunity to ask her about that. I regret that I chose not to.
18
Hopefully, she gets to read your post.
3
After skimming thru the comments, I think it's safe to say a random college degree doesn't seem to guarantee a job or even a second interview.
The job market is clearly tough for young and old. But, I haven't read a comment yet from an out of work plumber, ironworker, electrician, etc. My son is a highly skilled welder. He learned his trade in prison. My husband is a pilot. He learned his trade serving in the military. My daughter and I are engineers. Absolutely no shortage of work for any of us.
There is nothing wrong with learning a marketable skill instead of learning marketing. Going forward, more people need to be able to actually do something besides sit in front of a computer screen.
21
Good point. Let’s hope AI/bots don’t eliminate those trades.
5
@Mary You are right, tradespeople do seem to be fully employed at the moment. But as soon as the economy turns down (and it seems to be softening now), those people are laid off. I live in the midwest and all the carpenters, plumbers, electricians moved away during the last devastating recession. As soon as the building boom ends, many of those jobs do, too. There are no "safe" jobs.
9
I have great skills — in the creative/communications areas. Honors English degree from prestigious public Ivy blah blah blah. While I agree that trades can lead to financial and work success, the fact is that some of us are not good at that stuff and are much better at other things. In retirement I’ve learned how to repair sewing machines, rewire lamps and repair and paint furniture, which I sell at a profit. But I could never make a living doing this at my skill level.
8
Change a few insignificant details here and there and her story is my story, too. About 15 months ago I was laid off from a job I've held for 15 years. I was part of a companywide salary dump that targeted employees 55 and older in particular.
I exhausted my six months of unemployment insurance while still looking for a new job and had to drop the COBRA coverage I had because it was much too expensive. Luckily, I have an ACA medical plan and the subsidy covers the premium.
In the meantime, I'm freelancing while looking for full or even PT steady work, but I do have some health issues that make some jobs that require long hours of standing or heavy labor prohibitive.
Unfortunately, the freelancing is not steady or enough or pays well enough to pay the bills. I've had to dip into my retirement savings – losing a good deal in taxes, penalties and fees – and now there's not much left.
During my job search, I've found it frustrating trying to navigate the various search sites and LinkedIn. I'm constantly re-writing my resume to try to second guess whatever algorithm it needs to get passed. I've pretty much stopped trying to find a job in the field I know best and excelled in – journalism – and focus instead on fields where my skills are transferable.
However, I increasingly encounter jargon and (software) programs I'm unfamiliar with. It can wear a person down more than I ever imagined.
13
I was unemployed and under-employed for 6 desperate years, and I have only compassion for the people toughing it out here. I now make $20,000/year less than my peak earning, and it continues to be a challenge. I want to point out that among these voices who are struggling for work is that none of us are adding anything to the economy. I have purchased NOTHING in 6 years. No clothing, no movie tickets, no meals out, no contributions to nonprofits. At the end of each trip to the grocery, I put two things back on the shelf. Multiply that by all the voices here and you can see even more damage done to our economy.
80
I think one way to start addressing the problem as an individual is to think about the kind of work that others won't consider. For example, there is always work for a great salesperson, but how many people aspire to that as a profession? Obviously, sales offers tremendous opportunities for personal and professional growth that is valuable across the board. But how many parents encourage their kids to pursue it? Another area of low hanging fruit is agriculture, where there is plenty of full-time work available, and loads of professional growth and potentially great careers for those who seriously pursue them. Having an education or desire doesn't provide job security. Producing value that others need and want does. And contrarianism helps -- be where others aren't.
1
Age discrimination. Automated hiring. More unpaid or low paid internships that rarely result in jobs. Applications thrown into automated black holes or into the pile the the recruiter sends to their clients that require essays, tests (!), etc. If you are a great candidate and over 45, you get sent on tons of interviews so you can be the second choice before they pick someone younger. Good times. For all the talk about single payer, what we need urgently is a public option for over 40s NOW, and a good hard look a (esp for gals) what min social security payments will be... many, many single women in the future will be very poor.
25
You are right. Though I will add that single payer may free businesses up to hire older workers if they don't have to cover their perceived so-called higher health care costs.
10
There is a lot of talk about age discrimination and how employers only need to look on the internet to find out how old you are. I don't know if they still use the I-9 form to ferret out people who are not legal to work, but that's what always did me in. You were required to write you birthdate in the upper right-hand corner and employers demanded that you fill out the form before you even have an interview.
It's amazing how they talk about areas where people are really needed, but it often turns out not to be true. They claim that more teachers are needed in STEM courses. When my sister, who was certified in every high school science, she found it impossible to find a job. She said every job she applied for had about 200 applicants.
Here in South Mississippi after Katrina there were help wanted signs everywhere. However, it took me over a year to get a part-time job.
Job hunting has been awful for a long time. We are discriminated against for anything and everything and judged for every tiny little thing. I often think that the people doing the hiring live in their own little fantasyland. They have no understanding that in real life everything isn't always neat and tidy.
12
Laid off from corporate life in my 50s, I found far less age discrimination and a more egalitarian environment in the public sector.
9
People don't understand why I feel both grateful and lucky to have landed the job of my dreams 11 months after being laid off at the age of 56. I don't, for a minute, ever take it for granted.
37
Some are lucky some of the times and never get to experience the maladies associated with being without steady income. Maybe, one day, no one will ever experience such maladies again.
3
The hateful remarks I’m reading here aimed at those struggling to find full time, decently-paid work make me sick. We are all Americans. Where has our love of country and fellow Americans gone?
17
In this individualistic society if you are unemployed it’s your fault.
1
Is there a Costco nearby?
2
I just wanted to point out that there are grants available through NJDOL. If you are still getting unemployment benefits, you should know that there is an opportunity to get them extended after the standard 26-week period is over. Get in touch with your local One Stop office, and go to the orientation session. If you can find a class that qualifies and is deemed as “in demand” there’s a good chance you can get additional benefits while you’re taking the class. But you have to put in study hours every week and can’t be working, not even part-time. I took a Project Management course at Ramapo in 2016, got my benefits extended, and then got my CAPM the following year, without paying a cent. And as mentioned in the article, I’m going to start two classes next week.
https://www.lsnjlaw.org/Jobs-Employment/Unemployment-Insurance/Claims/Pages/Additional-Benefits-Training
6
A lot of posts but not a single one mentions the cause of all this... mass immigration! With an infinite reserve army of labor existing outside of America why would American employers want to hire Americans who want decent wages when they can hire illegal immigrants and pliable H1Bs at a fraction of the cost.
While my company has hired a few Americans lately, they’ve literally filled floors of our my office with H1B visa holders who don’t speak fluent English and don’t have the skills they claim they do to do work that previously was done by Americans.
Start penalizing severely those who hire illegal immigrants, end the H1B visa farce and watch as American workers suddenly become in demand again.
16
@John
Maybe true about H1B, but illegal immigants are not taking middle-class jobs.
24
@Jules Poor people need jobs too and many formerly “Middle class jobs” like working in a meatpacking plant have been turned into low-wage jobs through union busting, outsourcing, and prioritizing the hiring of illegal immigrants over Americans.
2
@John - H-1Bs are limited. If you end H-1 bs, you will find whole companies moving overseas or outsourcing, besides all kinds of other negative effects, loss of jobs in colleges as international student enrollment will plummet.
It's so easy to point fingers at the cause of unemployment- ageism, H-1bs, immigrants- I think it's much more the whole experience of predatory capitalism.
Ms. Cohen briefly touched on our taking classes through NJDOL, and I want to expand upon that. There are grants available through NJDOL. If you’re still getting unemployment benefits, you should know that there’s an opportunity to get them extended after the standard 26-week period is over if you take a class. Get in touch with your local One Stop office, and go to the orientation session. If you can find a class that qualifies and is deemed as “in demand” there’s a chance you can get additional benefits while you’re taking the class. But you have to put in study hours every week and can’t be working, not even part-time. I took a Project Management course at Ramapo in 2016, got my benefits extended, and then got my CAPM the following year, without paying a cent. And as mentioned in the article, I’m going to start two classes next week.
https://www.lsnjlaw.org/Jobs-Employment/Unemployment-Insurance/Claims/Pages/Additional-Benefits-Training
1
@Laura Ward
During the last recession, I was able to get my unemployment benefits extended because I was taking classes at a local accredited community college. Another thing that was helpful was that the Governor of Ohio at the time was a Democrat. Once John Kaisich got into office in 2010, that (predictably) was no longer the case. (Fortunately, I was working by then.) Now, even just collecting unemployment (which is insurance and not a handout) is a nightmare, thanks to Kaisich and the Republican-controlled state legislature. People should keep that in mind when touting John Kaisich as a potential presidential candidate. He, just like most of the GOP, couldn't care less about the unemployed.
3
Laura Ward has three sins against her but she has one savior attribute. Her sins, while few, are devastating.
Sins:
1. She was let go or laid off. Everyone knows that only “valuable” employees are retained.
2. She is unemployed for longer than three months. After the three-month mark, you’re an outcast.
3. She is older than forty (I assume). Age discrimination is RAMPANT.
Saving attribute:
1. She is female.
Employment in America is aa absolute sham.
To find any type of work in America today, you MUST BE...in order of importance:
1. Young and white female. (Under forty unless you have serious skills*).
2. Young and non-white female. (ditto)
3. Young and white male.
4. Young and non-white male.
Note: the above is a “sliding scale”. The further you are from the optimum, the less chance you have.
All others need not apply, except...marginally older females who have serious skills.*
Marginally = 38 to 50 years old; and *serious skills = not using ‘their’ when ‘there’ is more appropriate, or not using any type of maternity leave.
9
I feel your analysis is pretty much spot on. Why our society can’t fix the problem is shameful. One can even go so far to say many older folks are experiencing domestic terrorism from being pretty much ignored on the job market. Someone like Bernie or Warren needs to address this epidemic of a problem. Are you listening powers that be? Or, because you’re getting paid regularly it’s no big whoop? That said, the lack of serious effort and press about the issue is shameful to the nth degree.
6
You’ve got it right except for one thing. Layoffs and staff reductions long ago weeded out the marginal employees. Especially in advertising, when you lose a client, it’s generally the people on the account who are let go, but everyone’s at risk. Women like Ms Ward (and me) are at highest risk. In one layoff, my company laid off only the people over 40 (including me) and paid us off not to sue. At least one of them, an editor, older woman, was one of the best in the business. Ms Ward’s profession may be more difficult to land a job. If she’s in print, it’s a diminishing field.
Even if you land a job, there’s no security. I’ve had some freelance jobs that lasted longer than full-time jobs. i’ve learned to recognize the signs: not signing new business, jobs from a client start to dwindle and you get weird answers for why, thenlosing a client, organizations, mergers, you get a new manager, more closed-door meetings than usual, unusual mixes of participants in these meetings. Company meetings where the C-suite will lie, especially when they say there will be no layoffs and/or there’s all this new business in the pipeline. They don’t want to lose staff before they’re ready. Dust off the resume. You don’t owe anyone your loyalty.
It’s a fact of life once you hit 40. I intend to work until I die as long as my brain and fingers work. Wish me (and Ms Ward) luck.
1
@Gabrielle Rose thanks. I was actually a print production manager at the ad agency, but I also did a lot of other things as well because we were so small. Because we were so small, when we lost the largest account we had it was a huge hit. And my position was really the only one that was able to be split up between the remaining employees, and a designer was let go also.
So my jobs the past three years have been project management, so that’s what I’m now searching for. And technically, before the ad agency I had been doing traffic and project management anyway. And while print is definitely on the decline, there is still a need for it in Pharma and healthcare. But alas, Pharma and healthcare often want people who have industry experience!
I do think I’m going to find something, eventually. Good luck to you too.
1
She should apply for a government job on USAJOBS.
3
That’s great until the next government shutdown rolls around...
1
When I first started working back in 1979, large companies were full of well-educated people with no specific skills who filled positions that were not really needed. As the world became more competitive, and the US lost its dominance, these people were gradually eliminated. People above the bottom level have to justify their salaries by bringing in revenue or selling product.
Yes, large companies still have a number of people producing reports nobody reads, and attending boring meetings. They're the first to go when they need to cut costs.
My advice to those who want to stay employed is to have a hard skill, not a general education. Employers still need workers in core production areas. The only exception is sales. If you can sell product and produce revenue, you're golden - and you're probably also working for commission, not base salary.
8
I'm a millennial. I have two degrees, my BA and MA. I also have years of work experience. So many of the job postings that are for "entry level" require 3-5 years of experience, PLUS your degrees. It's a lose lose situation for everyone.
20
@C,
I know that situation only too well. The insidious 3-5 of years of experience requirement doesn't always refer to general work experience either.
Rather, that requirement often refers to experience doing the job you are applying for or something similar.
3
I am 70 and still working part-time because I work in a field where there is a chronic shortage of skilled, experienced employees.
Get practical and get re-trained. You'll get hired.
5
Happy and gainfully employed, I had a conversation with a friend 3 years ago where they were having similar issues.
On paper, he is a prime candidate, bachelors degree in engineering, MBA from a decent school, well documented job history, he couldn’t understand why he had applied to 30 jobs over a 3 month period and only had gotten requests for a phone interview (or more) from 2 of them.
In digging deeper he disclosed that he had applied to all of them via the job search website he found them on (glass door, indeed, monster, LinkedIn) rather than the company website directly. I told him that was his issue.
As a hiring manager who has had to fill a few positions over the past few years, it’s obvious which ones come in via the “indeeds” of the world and which ones come in via our career website directly. The 3rd party ones come in with a high level profile (at best), are generic in nature and rarely if ever come with a cover letter or detailed resume.
I ran a non scientific experiment after chatting with my friend.
I applied to 10 jobs, twice. Same exact resume, different names and email addresses.
10 were direct via the companies career website and 10 via a 3rd party job aggregator.
Of the 10 via indeed/LinkedIn/ glass door, I got a call back on 1.
Via the companies websites, I got call backs from 4.
My point (and recommendation)...use the job search websites to do just that, search and find the job. Go directly to the companies own website after that to apply
20
most times indeed and other sites take you directly to website.
5
I share her pain and frustration. At 57 I experienced the very same thing in 2012, a few years after losing my house and watching the downturn in Silicon Valley remove jobs by the thousands. There was nowhere to apply for a job that would help. I ended up working at a front desk at a hotel for a year but it only paid $11.50 an hour and it wasn't full time, no benefits. When we moved to Petaluma for my wife's job, the prospects were even more bleak. And adding more stress to the situation, I discover she's cheating on me a few months later. Fast forward two years later and I finally land a contract job in 2014 with benefits for a division of HP. As you might have guessed, that too didn't last as Meg Whitman began selling off divisions of the company to please the shareholders. Living alone, I was finally pushed into retiring early since I had a chronic pain problem and couldn't afford to continue to drain my IRA account. Thank god for the ACA. Our politicians need to understand that real people are suffering because of the greed that is going on and something has to change soon. And even though they swear they don't discriminate, the high tech industry won't touch people after 50 years old. We all know it. I can't understand how the government let's them get away with it.
31
Excellent point on how the government allows “them” to get away with it. That said, we the people are the government and are the engine for change.
1
"the strongest labor market in half a century,"
I don't think so. Wages haven't kept up, high quality manufacturing jobs continue to disappear, and a huge number of people are discouraged from even seeking work and, therefore, aren't counted as unemployed. When the labor market gets truly strong companies like Uber and Lyft will be in trouble.
24
These so-called business leaders are in for a wake-up call. At some point, when everyone sits on everyone else's boards, and everyone's given everyone else raises, bonuses, and stocks... someone is still going to have to do the actual work of production and development, and consumers are going to have to have enough nickels in their pockets to buy the product or service. Squeezing your customers (your workers) too hard through low wages and benefits is, ultimately, counterproductive.
11
My story of job hunting challenges is very similar, and right in the heart of the technology world. I was laid off by a large corporation that chose to cut some costs in a new product area- one of those mega corporations that was also simultaneously doing a multi-billion dollar stock buyback at the time earlier this year. Looking for a job without a job is death. I have a Ph.D., worked my way up to the executive level by 2000, and have even successfully raised money for a startup software company in the Bay Area. Despite my skills and success, and applications and interviews to over 80 job “openings”, my age and skills are working hard against me. Millennials simply won’t hire someone 20 years older with more depth of experience. The metrics of the economy seem at odds with the sea of us roaming America, looking for a middle-class wage.
19
I suggest reading “Headhunters Hiring Secrets” by Skip Freeman it’s full of helpful modern job hunting and networking advice. Here in the SF Bay Area there are two non profits you should contact Jewish Vocational Services and wardrobe for opportunity both offer interview workshops with local companies, interview suits, and classes. I also recommend joining some exercise clubs to stay fit and active. If you show looking better than the twenty somethings you might have a chance. Another thing to consider is gaining industry specific certifications that will be flagged by resume reading software. Look into smaller employers that have a need to tech savvy staff but don’t have the budget to recruit the younger crowd.
2
The American Public (consumers) need to vote with pocket book. Stop bargain hunting. It leads to buying overseas imports. Reward companies that pay the full freight ( high wages, full benefits) over those that don’t. Think contractors etc. Buy cars produced by companies paying the highest working wages and benefits like Ford and GM over nonunion foreign cars built with nonunion. Be willing to frequent restaurants that pay $20 per hour over those that don’t.
But all this is expensive and America’s obsession with everyday low prices and bargain hunting will prevent all that.
For sure, Corporations and Business Owners could give more, but at the end of the day they are going to chase profits because their shareholders and customers demand it.
5
If you reach the age of 60 and you don't have a clear path on how you are going to pay for retirement you have failed yourself. That does not mean you have a huge savings account, but that you know how you are going to live after your working life is over. That's what you are supposed to be doing for the past 35 years on the job. Our current strong economy creates opportunities but does not insure individual success across all segments of society, that's what a dynamic capitalist society is, the process is known as creative destruction. Our economy is the envy of the world but not everyone benefits equally.
5
Yes, that is all very well and good, perhaps. But, from what I am gathering, no our economy is not at all the envy of the world. And hasn’t been for some time, I am afraid. American corporations shirked their national and social responsibilities horrifically starting with Ronald Reagan. When he clearly stated that greed is good. And the seeds of that terrible neglect has led to the sham economy we are living with now. What a nightmare!
3
Another aspect that is not mentioned here is the need to "thread the needle" of Medicaid eligibility. Even if I can get a full time job, I lose my coverage, with co-pays and deductibles an insurmountable barrier to continuation of care. Going without meds would itself make me unable to work.
(Being 58, I'm basically unemployable, anyways)
10
In my long middle-manager corporate life, companies "restructured" every 3 or 4 years to tweak expenses and profitability.
Note: when your company announces a restructure and touts the benefits of new "synergies," layoffs are coming your way.
9
I'm not seeing any news here. Folks of Ms. Ward's age always have had difficulty finding employment--that goes back decades.
I sympathize with the folks in this story. Everyone who is willing to work and has skills should be employed. That said, this could have been printed 20 years ago and would be every bit as true.
9
Meanwhile companies are enjoying great profits. The 60's through the 80's was the best time for working Americans. Even the lowest people on the wage scale had benefits. When I think back to that time period, I paid for my college education with a part time job. I also paid for my apartment and had a car note. I was in my early 20's and was totally self sufficient with only a part time job....with benefits. We are now living precariously in a world where every individual is totally responsible for themselves and their future. No more Mr. Nice guy.
13
I am 50 and live in constant fear of the next lay-off. Having been in and out of the workforce over the past 10 years due to raising kids, I wonder why employers favor younger workers who are more likely to leave for a better job/higher salary or go on maternity leave, etc. Isn’t it desirable to have an employee who wants to stick around?
20
Most employees are expendable and younger ones tend to be cheaper.
7
I hear this talk about the best job market ever and I see people driving Uber which is a low paying job. How we measure things tells us who we are.
Part of the method of the plutocracy is to gaslight the people by telling us how fortunate we are with a low unemployment rate and tepid economic growth. They push their ideas as they get massive tax cuts and develop automation that will require no people.
They speak of their love of the coal miner while employing robots that eliminates their work. But, the miners blame the liberals.
36
Those who were older and lost their job in the last economic downturn have not been able to find full-time employment. Call it what you will, but it's clearly age discrimination...everyone looks the other way when this happens; nothing is done about it.
38
Concerning age discrimination, I don't understand why people recommend striking your graduation dates, etc, from your resumes. You MIGHT land an interview, but how do you hide your age when you arrive? Are you hoping that you will "wow" and distract them?
Companies prefer young people for many reasons. Although they may have anti-discrimination policies, the actual selection is done by the individual manager. She/he is typically not comfortable managing people of their own age and experience. They don't have to rationalize their choice. That's why we invented the term "better fit."
9
@Joyboy
As an experienced hiring manager, I can tell you that nobody, I mean NOBODY cares what you did more than 10 years ago. It's a waste of resume space.
So yes I actually would suggest attempting to wow them in the interview. Color the gray, dress youthful, and emanate energy and enthusiasm.
5
@joyboy Unfortunately by taking this stance of looking at “fit” companies are missing out on the diversity the pretend to seek. People who aren’t “like” you are probably the people you most need on your team. Bubbles are responsible for advancing discrimination.
4
@Jules
ha-ha
"Color the gray, dress youthful, and emanate energy and enthusiasm"
I'm not sure many people would find much encouragement in those words. Emanate energy and enthusiasm? That might be the most ageist thing I've ever heard.
11
I’m 62. I work in a mostly-millennial company. The ageism and marginalization and disdain I experience every day from young colleagues and a young boss has me constantly on the edge of quitting. Then I read an article like this. Even if you get the job, modern corporate culture is brutal once you’ve passed 50, let alone 60.
112
You will not find a job sitting in front of your computer, applicant tracking software--a screen out not in process employers use, has made this activity futile. A lot of effort with no positive feedback. Job boards and applying online is the first step in a job search. The second is finding a champion--someone in the company who can hand your resume and talk your qualifications to the appropriate people. That champion doesn't need to be in your network. Studies have found your closest connections are the least likely to help you. Step away from your computer. Create a targeted job search plan and work the plan.
7
If the person is not in your network, why would he/she champion you? What will the job search plan include?
9
This is the reality when you give the biggest tax breaks in history to the wealthy, instead of investing in infrastructure, health and education. This is the losing results of a Trump administration.
24
In my volunteer work, I encounter the familiar scenario of a young three or four member family where both the high school degreed wife and husband work two part time low-paying jobs without any benefits and arrange for family members to watch the child. With the most recent family, the wife worked at Hobby Lobby and McDonalds and the husband worked at Home Depot and a construction crew. There’s zero prospect the family could ever afford to buy a house or take a proper vacation or contribute to an education fund under such circumstances. It’s a month to month struggle and whatever the “Business Roundtable” declares, it’s workers are treated like livestock. Such is the nature of “capitalism” in the USA.
32
This describes my college educated daughter and her two Master's Degrees husband's lives with one child. She works 3 part time jobs, no benefits. He commutes 60 miles one way working for a small district library. They are both working in their field, but education loans, medical bills, and rising costs of living all the way around make home ownership and getting ahead or saving impossible. Child care? Unemployed grandma and retired grandpa for free. Don't even get me started on why I'm unemployed or my unending job searches!
14
Mary Beth: our experience is similar, but two adults losing jobs in our late 40s/early 50s, having progressive salary cuts (to “help” the companies we worked for), followed by multiple part-time jobs that were inadequate in every way. Trained, open to change, with a lot of “niche” skills, but too old. Applied over and over again for any job. We were offered lots of part time jobs, I mainly did adjunct teaching and retail, holding down 5 simultaneous jobs at one point.
Still, full time jobs were just not there. After 13 years of multiple part time jobs, I actually found a “real” job at 62. I was hired by a 73 year old, who didn’t see me as old. I have many skills, I am a great (and grateful) employee, and I hope to make up some of the savings I was unable to tuck away during our long winter without adequately paid work, insurance or employer respect. Retiring is still a fantasy at 67, but we were able to fix the leaking roof and get a new (used) car. Still, I have an “extra” part time job. My husband has some seniority at his retail gig after 10 years (works for a store with one location, so his boss knows he is an asset).
American businesses have a lot to answer for in their drive to keep employees from reaping their fair share of a company’s profits. My 13 year search for jobs was a lesson in the multiple cruelties of vulture capitalism. It also exposed me to the toxic opinions of other people who felt that insurance was something I should not even aspire to.
10
A note to the job-desperate: there is always work on ships (I spent many years working on cruise liners, but there are other seagoing industries as well). Three hots and a cot, so you can bank all of your wages, have a bit of adventure, and perhaps grow to enjoy the unique camaraderie at sea.
5
Thanks, but if one has family who needs one I don’t think that works.
6
Companies that solicit job seekers and then ignore every response except for the few they are interested in are the worst. Penny pinching HR departments may save a bit of postage but cost their companies plenty of good will. It's common courtesy to acknowledge that someone has put time and money into a submission, but they can't be bothered. It does, however, tell you a lot about the organization - if they are that rude and inconsiderate during the application process, you know exactly how you'd have been treated as an employee. Resentment about this shoddy treatment spills over into the consumer side - why should I patronize a company that ignores me?
15
I was laid off in 2011 at age 55 and haven't found steady work since. I have been living on savings and contract work. I only hope that I can make it to 66.
20
@Kgski If you know you're not going to make much money when you're 64 getting social security at 65 is the better choice. You won't get that much more at 66.
4
@Kgski you are eligible right now for SS
4
A number of years ago, I was "downsized" by a large computer manufacturer. A couple of years after the downsizing, I noticed an employment advertisement for a position that exactly (and I mean exactly) matched the position from which I had been downsized. So, what's a fella to do? I applied for the job, included my resume, and I received a standard letter stating that they would keep my resume on file. Never heard from them again. But, I never really expected to hear from them. That's how they are. The unemployment statistics we read about, and that Trump fluffs and preens his feathers about, and the economists (those ragged bunch of soothsayers) like to point to as the best there ever was, is hardly a good measure of employment. If you dig into it and figure out how the government arrives at these numbers (one hour a week counts as being employed; a homemaker doing the books for the family business on a Saturday night counts as being employed) you will see how remarkably politically beneficial these measure are and do not reflect what is really going on in society. Our economy is very fragile, not robust as they would have you believe and the stock market (a national gambling joint rigged by the house) is hardly a good measure of economic performance. Remember, the consumer is the bread of our economic sandwich and the meat in that sandwich is getting thinner and thinner.
20
At age 61 I was laid off in May of this year - after 20 years, the position was eliminated in a round of cost cutting. Within 1 week I saw my exact position on the company's job board. I applied, and was rejected.
18
Not to mention wages which are stagnant - and minimum wage, $7.25, established in 2009! Ten years ago.
7
We need Medicare for all. Low wages, ageism, gig employment...unemployment! Healthcare is a major issue for anyone in those groups. Vote for Bernie or Warren...
22
People complain about high medical bills and high interest student debt—but Medicare for All and free college education is socialism! And that’s bad!
1
Job advertising is just so they can say they advertise and for jobs that turnover frequently. Networking is good but like Facebook they favor a bubble as I found out attempting to change careers. Slack is quickly supplanting many of LinkedIn’s original features but more clubbish. Ageism is rampant in the so call empathic career of UX. I’m using my old skills to become independently employed. The trade off is better to be honest. Relying on corporations is simply not tenable. There is opportunity to upend freelance and contract markets.
8
The unemployment rates are a myth. I’m 60 and terrified.
25
No one should live in terror, especially due to domestic causes. How about writing your local politicians and seriously tell them you feel terrorized due to the job (earnings) outlook for yourself. When I think about your feelings it angers me to no end that you, and probably others, have gotten to such a point in their lives. I don’t know what I can do for you, but if anyone reading this can, I implore you to do the right thing for this woman and others like her. Enough is enough!!!!!
5
Good luck if you’re older. Not only do you have no income your pension and social security are getting damaged every day you’re not working. And there’s no time to make it up.
20
This is what Trumps Make America great again is all about. Phony slogan and lies all around. The only ones who get ahead are the CEO’s and business owners who hire temporary people so they won’t have to pay them higher wages or health benefits. I’m tired of all the Trump lies time to lock him up.
15
@D.j.j.k.
Yeah, because times were so good under the sainted Barack Obama.
You know, plenty of green jobs and all.
@d.j.j.k. Over 11 million people now have health insurance due to the affordable care act.
https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/health-insurance-exchanges-2019-open-enrollment-report
In any event, economists always have said that the current President has little bearing on the current economy.
Walmart is always hiring, so is Amazon. Every time I read an account of a person that was in a secure, well paying job, and is now on the outs I think to myself how about manual labor? Construction is always hiring. Too good for that kind of work? Hardly. Creatively manage a shovel, or a frialator at McDonalds. Maybe it's time to listen when people complain about jobs being sent overseas and illegal workers being brought into the country.
3
@somsai The important aspect you leave out is a living professional wage and benefits. A wage that makes one unable to afford housing and transportation, and a job that includes no healthcare, is subsistence working as opposed to a living wage. Yes one can survive at minimum wage with no benefits, give up one's worldy possessions and even lose one's home and be unable to pay for a simple one-bedroom or studio apartment and unable to fully cover living and transportation expenses, but understand that important aspect: that there is no Medicare coverage until the age of 65.
27
Many older people cannot take a job that involves manual labor. I have flat feet and my brother has severe neuropathy. Neither of us could be on our feet all day/five days a week, but we both would rather work than be on disability.
18
Yeah, it will look so great on your resume that you shovels sand on a construction site, when you are appointing for manager positions. To take such jobs, it is to say goodbye to your career. And it is acceptable in time of Great Depression, but it should not be a case in times of 'Our economy is doing so great'.
18
Take that "low unemployment figure" and at least double it. I'd say it's at least 8%, probably higher. The number tRump likes to brag about is a bald-faced lie, designed to make him look like he's actually doing something. People who can't pay their bills, with their low pay, and part time jobs, are NOT really employed, and the strictest sense. Don't believe anything the tRump regime says about anything. tRump, Kudkow, and Mnuchin don't shinola about the economy. They know how to cheat.
8
ABH advises MS.WARD and all other folks her age who should be at mid career level to seek succor, full time well paid work at the MOTHER OF ALL EMPLOYERS, the Board of Education, whether in New Jersey, New York or any other state where positions are ALWAYS available, perhaps not always in top notch schools, but available nonetheless. If Ms WARD has no credits in education, necessary to obtain certification, she can take classes. Meanwhile , she could work as a teacher's aide.So, ABH, dean, teacher of bilingual social studies, French and English, and called upon also to teach special progress classes in English at a zone school moreover, Brandeis HIGH,84th & Columbus.says the B. of E. is the "porte de sortie"for ANYONE frustrated with private industry."Reflechissez:"After 3 years u r tenured, which means you cannot be let go. After 10 years u r vested. Meanwhile ur equity builds up in your stock portfolio.Not unheard of for teachers to retire with a half million dollars in stock holdings.Teachers incarnate a mission:aiding the young to become seff sufficient, knowledgeable, erudite good citizens. What's there not to like?
1
@Alexander Harrison teachers, hopefully not writing “u r”
4
@Mike: 1 writes in computer shorthand to economize space, which should be apparent.If I wrote that Monsieur X was p.n.g to the admin.,folks would understand that I meant "persona non grata!"
It’s a huge problem when you have been doing X for ever, and now you have to change.
That is also what politicos do not get when they proclaim they will make all cars green in a few years. Liberals clap like trained marionets, but the reality on the ground is what keeps auto-workers voting Republican.
Imagine you have been working an assembly line for 20+ years, or even for 10+ years. Now some 20’s something new executive comes in all happy to tell you that we are going to build new green electric cars, and all your skills are now useless. You will have to learn a new job, train on computers, learn new procedures, new skills, listen to techs that come in to explain in some language you will never get what you are doing wrong. After a few months you realize you’re as useless as the machines that made gas cars. And soon there are a whole lot of people lining up for a job you can’t do any more despite your experience. And soon you are home reading classifieds.
It’s a real issue.
We will never have full employment. But for those whose skills became obsolete we need to teach them a trade so they can land a good job.
And we need to stop encouraging kids to take useless degrees like Gender Studies, MBA as a Librarian, English Major , education that gives useless skills that no one hires for, it makes them obsolete the moment they leave school.
Trades is where it’s at. We should encourage that.
3
But you just make the case that even technical jobs can go obsolete. I don't think the workers mind training and learning new skills, but the employers do not want to provide the training and prefer to hire young whom you don't need to train and you could pay less money. I saw the article from some employer in tech sector who complained that he could not find the qualified workers but he didn't want to train them because 'we are not kindergarten for Google'
6
If elections can be rigged, how hard is it to rig employment figures, especially by an army of sychophants working for someone who loves the "best ever" label for just about everything. Oh, and who is a pathological liar on top of it.
Consider these societal issues:
Homelessness.
Opiate deaths.
Suicides.
Rents
These are numbers that are at the highest level in over a century, if not in "all of recorded history". Why doesn't the White House crowd crow non-stop about these figures. Just asking.
While we're at it, how could there be so many job -hunters cited in this sad and factual article. Especially, since a billlionaire ($1,000,000,000) has as much money as 1,000 millionaires with $1,000,000 each. How could one idividual have as much money as 1,000 millionaires, combined
And how, then, could there be nearly half the population that can't get their hands on $400 to visit the dentist for a toothache. I ask you that.
6
You also have to wonder how the "gig" economy is being recorded in these employment figures, one or two jobs? The gig worker is likely to have no benefits, no pension and is 1099'd. Also, there seems to be no accounting for those of us who were nearing retirement age who just gave up and started taking SS at 62.
8
After a lay off at age 61, I would love to take SS at 62. Unfortunately, that doesn't cover any decent health insurance.
3
I agree that age discrimination is rampant but it can depend on your location. I know where we live it’s not hard to find employment no matter your age. You will probably only receive $15 an hour but it is doable. Reagan started this downslide and greed only made it grow into a crisis.
6
Lost my full-time position 18 months ago. Since then, I've only gotten a few part-time jobs. I have lots of extensive financial-type skills, but that doesn't matter much in today's market. There are so many, many people looking! I wonder if the job postings are even real. I worry if a recession hits again. Then what?
9
Some odd advice, but consider putting on your running shoes and taking a long, daily walk. Take different routes through your city -- and carry copies of your resume. Don't be in a hurry. You're exercising but staying open to conversations and looking for signs from potential employers. See a place that looks interesting? Pop in and ask to speak with a manager -- then hand them a resume. You might get only a nibble or two but you'll see your city and get plenty of positive energy from your walks!
4
Most posted jobs are not real openings. Due to legal issues most companies post all opening even when there is already an internal candidate. This includes basic transferring of staff from one job to another. It’s a major waste of time and resources for all parties. It’s about time for someone to say, it’s OK to promote someone to a job without interviewing five other people.
24
Major companies have a policy mandating that the job be posted on the internal job website for at least 30 days before posting the job to venues available to the public. They are expected to give preference to current employees looking for advancement in the company.
3
In the last 40 years, I’ve had at least a dozen jobs as a consultant or full-time employee. The longest I’ve been unemployed is no more than two months. In general, I end and start a new job within two or three weeks. My salary expectation is in the six figures with full benefits.
Here’s what I would suggest.
1. Get over this nonsense about such illusions as age, race, and sex barriers to employment. An employer will hire you for your skills, not for your age, race, or sex. In the market place, the sooner you recognize these are illusions, the faster you will get a job.
2. Be highly self-critical when it comes to your resume and interviewing skills. Over the years, I’ve interviewed quite a number of people, and I must say I’m amazed at how otherwise qualified people sabotage themselves by their sloppy presentation. But I’m too polite to share that with them.
3. Looking for work is your work. Work at it eight hours a day until you get a job. That’s right. Eight hours a day. Unemployment isn’t a vacation but work—hard work. The world is filled with opportunities. It’s up to you to seize your opportunities. I won’t end this by saying good luck, as I don’t believe in luck—yet one more illusion. What you must believe in is yourself. And only you can do that.
12
@Philip
I endured Norman Vincent Peale bootstraps lectures during the last recession. They are not helpful and actually are condescending, insulting and clueless.
By the way - age discrimination, particularly for people over 50, is a very real thing. Just because people like you want to wear blinders to reality doesn't mean that reality isn't happening.
20
@Philip It's not what you know. It's who you know. I'm sure you know that.
14
@eheck I don't think age is a thing at all. It's all about competence and reinvention. I'm not the only one in my sixties who doesn't have a problem getting work. Are you sure you don't have the blinders?
1
This is not new news. I have been there and done that. Today with electronic job applications and software screening the applicant job hunting has become very impersonal. I basically gave up as I was endlessly filling out online applications, pages and pages of them, with never a reply or one of those email that said “we found a better applicant”
4
One approach to finding work is to get out of the house, literally. Go to meet ups, trade shows, seminars run by professional trade organizations, etc. events and places where you can meet people, make connections and hopefully find opportunities.
5
Last year my company closed and I lost my dream job at age 60. Since then, I've applied for many that would have been such good fits that the job descriptions nearly mirrored my resume. Not a nibble. Meanwhile, I've kept an eye on those jobs and seen them going to much less experienced 30- and 40-somethings. No, they're not "allowed" to discriminate, but when we submit our resumes and they see a high school graduation date in the 70s, and college in the 80s, you know they know. I can support myself by freelancing, but what's scary is that a full four years before I'm eligible for Medicare, the chances of me getting another job with medical benefits is basically infinitesimal. All I can do is cross my fingers and hope I don't get sick.
431
@Kelly Burgess One thing to do, is not put your graduation dates on your resume. Then the only way an employer can discriminate based on age is to guess. Also, don't necessarily write down all of your jobs - just go back 2o years, or so.
73
By all means take your graduation dates off your resume. And provide just the last 10 years of work history.
85
I also read once that recruiters look at double sources after periods and old-school email domains (e.g., Hotmail, AOL) as indications of age.
51
Count me among them: I have a Master's, which I obtained in my mid 50s, yet for 2 years I've struggled to find full time work, settling for part time as package handler, sorting packages and boxes going to people seemingly more prosperous than I. All for $12 an hour. Later today I have an interview for a full time job starting at $13, serving as a job coach for people even less fortunate than I.
Hope? At 61 I have little left. Perseverance? It's waning too. Behind in bills - including my Masters-derived student loan, I'm struggling to hold on. This isn't how I'd planned it. But this is my story.
566
I got a special education teacher license in my 50s. Never got a job despite it supposedly being the teaching job most in demand.
65
@Julie
I live in SoCal, I found work with”IHSS”
It’s helping low income disabled persons
Pay $12.60 , various hours , it has been good for me, I can still continue my job search
All you pay for is fingerprints
Good Luck
12
It's good to hear I'm not alone. I have a master's degree in biology. After a few years of popping around the country for temporary jobs, I decided I was sick of being a satellite and went back to school to get an associate's degree as a paralegal. I spent a bit of time volunteering the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, who then hired me to a temporary job (and kept hiring me back for 3 years), and then I was able to get a term position in the sagebrush program. Unfortunately, after 2 years the regional office decided to restructure the program, and my job was out. I have sent out tons of resumes in the last two years, and gotten some temporary work, but nothing permanent.
I am disabled, and I have no doubt that this figures into employers' decisions. When I get told, "I just don't think you'd like this job," I can't help but suspect discrimination (and that was rom the State Engineer's Office!). On the other hand, my boss at Fish and Wildlife managed to be a jerk, too. On my last day, when I was talking about taking my spinner knob off the steering wheel of the vehicle I used, he casually said, "It probably left a mark in the steering wheel," like I'm some sort of liability. I can't help being angry. Gee, I'm sorry I had the bad judgment as a 5-year-old to ride my bike into the street in front of a pickup truck when the driver wasn't looking (he was turned around yelling at his 2 kids in the back seat). But now, it's somehow my fault.
28
Unfortunately age discrimination in employment is rampant in this country. I am an employer (small business) and have 4 employees. 2 of them are under 30 and 2 of them are over 60. I actually find that older workers are more loyal and reliable than younger ones. The younger workers help the older ones with technology while the older workers pass on their decades of work wisdom to the younger workers. It’s been a win-win situation for us with 40 straight months of growth in our business. I’ll never understand why many employers look down on older more experienced workers. They are an integral part of the success of any good business.
642
@Mike L Preach it!
21
@Mike L what's your business? Any needs for remote workers?
10
@Mike L That happened to my husband. He was working for a local small company after he had retired. They loved him and depended on him for his background, he also loved his job. When he left they begged him to come back.
9
I lost my job through reorganization, downsizing, loss of business, budget cut and the like. The longest I held a job in Public Relations and Marketing was three years. I never left a job; I was tossed aside.
At my last position, I was laid off in December 2008; my employer’s main client cut its budget. At age 55, I knew there would be few who would hire me. I hung up my “single shingle” and re-opened the consulting practice I operate whenever I lose employment, which now is about 40% of my career.
One client was the Ready To Work Business Collaborative, funded by the Rockefeller Foundation, to call attention to those on the sidelines seeking work, including the long-term unemployed (often those over age 50) and people who were under-employed, veterans, the disabled and youth ages 16-25 not in school nor working. Partners included corporations with programs that actively recruited from these talent pools.
We shouted into the wind. Reporters had little interest in this issue and employers were oblivious.
Thanks New York Times for noticing the issue. But it’s too late. My client relationship with the Collaborative lasted 18 months, ending in 2017.
See also Susan Sipprelle’s interviews with folks in every state “Over 50 and Out of Work” in 2010 http://treeoflifeproductionsllc.com/work/over-50-and-out-of-work/. Sipprelle testified before Congress in 2011. Her film “Set for Life” captures the travails of three families trapped in this cohort.
14
Your in your early sixties they ship your job off to Mumbai ask for the laptop back then give you three months severance and six months unemployment. You start taking contract gigs to survive some two months if lucky six, places just want the deliverable barely recognize you as a person. Ageism is unchecked go on a three hour interview have every skill and experience required then be told your not a “fit” the catch word for Ageism? Fit what am I a hat or pair of shoes? I am lucky I have VA benefits for health care I earned it age 20 a non electric pop up target in a rice paddy. This country is a disgrace caring only for the wealthy and increasing their disgusting level of greed. All those years back should have gone to Canada.
55
While illegal, age discrimination, disability discrimination, sex discrimination, race discrimination run rampant.
Before I gave up, I applied for over 200 IT jobs, at 62. I had three interviews. One employer, the University of Colorado, follows a discriminatory process of forcing applications into one-way, video interviews before the applicant has a chnace to talk to a hiring authority. Their alternative? You get a one way interview via Skype with real people. You can't ask questions. And, of course because you "inconvenienced" several people; you do not move on in the process.
Other employers use these one-way interviews to flag older candidates and those with disabilities, and are weeded out.
I applied fro Social Security retirement. I tried fro Social Security Disability; I was told that despite having High Functioning Autism (Aspergers) , and documented evidence of difficulty of getting a job, I was denied. I do not live in Mitch McConnell's state where half the population is illegally on disability. I had to take Social Security Retirement at 63.
I have over 40 years of IT experience, a field that not only that you are dealing with age, and disabilities, but also competing with foreign nationals to get a job. This is what Trump's economy has created.
Finally, New York Times, write an article on worker participation rates; it is still below what it was in 2007. The reported unemployment r ate, like inflation, are well below what they really are.
148
@Nick Metrowsky
'I have over 40 years of IT experience, a field that not only that you are dealing with age, and disabilities, but also competing with foreign nationals to get a job. This is what Trump's economy has created. '
Trust me, that did not start in 2016.
49
@AutumnLeaf, no, it did not. But trust me, the Times' interest in it has only started now that millennials are pushing 40. The discriminators will now be discriminated against, and those who championed them, like the Times with its 'digital native' stuff and its firing its older workers too, suddenly think it is unfair.
32
@Nick Metrowsky
Thanks so much for sharing your story. Just FYI, we write about the worker participation at least once a month -- and have been doing so for years -- when the jobs report comes out.
--Patricia Cohen
34
Never too late to get technical training and work a trade job!
5
@Matt G you appear to be overlooking one of the primary themes of the article which is age discrimination. It doesn't matter how much training and/or experience one has if they are over 40. Having been in the same situation, I can vouch for the accuracy of this women's experience.
18
Apprenticeships don’t go to older people. Nice thought, though.
8
@Mary A There is no age limit for an apprenticeship. Looking at the snippet of her notebook provided it looks like she focused on mid to higher level jobs centered around her project management skill set, which is understandable. At a certain point though if that approach is not yielding results there is no shame in changing roles or fields.
The examples in this article are great demonstrations of why Universal Basic Income and/or an expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit would be helpful. the traditional social contract has shifted and workers cannot depend on full-time work with benefits.
Both UBI and the EITC could help "smooth out" gaps in employment or provide support for people experiencing periods of underemployment. The workforce dynamics have shifted. we need to shift our tactics or suffer a slow collapse. I'd prefer the former.
11
@brian
'Universal Basic Income '
you're joking right?
'Free', means some one else paid for it.
'An income guaranteed for those who refuse to work', means overtaxing those who are dumb enough to show up day after day, so that others can stay home protesting the system.
No thanks.
4
The inability to get through these barriers to find a suitable job is very frustrating, demoralizing, and in many cases financially devastating. To add salt to the wound, our health care insurance coverage and retirement funding are tied to being employed. It is still so sad that so many people are in the position of scrambling to find jobs for a living wage. The rich get richer and the rest of us hang onto whatever thread we can.
I was laid off in 2008 during the financial meltdown (lost my benefits including health ins). Great credentials and experience galore but age and gender worked against me. After about 4 years of throwing myself against the proverbial brick wall, I gave up the job search. I was incredibly fortunate that my husband had his own small company that survived the recession and I was able to utilize my financial background to successfully manage our personal money and provide for retirement. We were among the lucky ones, but my not being able to find a job really took an emotional and financial toll.
35
The ageism discussion is interesting (as someone over 50 whose been looking for all of 2019), because it feels like an excuse to set aside several real obstacles to "mature" folks being hired.
Now that millennials are running middle management, their fascination with experiences, constant feedback, and advancement opportunities biases them against anyone who might remind them of their parents. They value consensus more than leadership, and resent being told about "mistakes I made" in favor of repeating them (for the experience).
Emogi's, social media, Slack...those over 50 also struggle to exist socially with younger workers.
The other reality is that millennials have matured in a period without significant wage increases, so integrating older worker salaries often feels impossible. The middle ground basically is gone, and older workers need to just look ahead and stop looking back at their prior comp packages formed in the 90's.
In the end, consulting / working for yourself is likely the answer for more and more older workers. Companies will pay for your knowledge, they just aren't woke enough to do so at wholesale prices.
19
I tell every young person I know to consider pursuing self employment and entrepreneurship. I see some of my educated, bright and capable younger relatives stuck in dead end jobs or out of work. They look at me like I’m crazy. I am retired but I worked a mix of self employed, corporate and nonprofit jobs in my day. Self employment was the best.
9
@Julie
I agree wholeheartedly!
In fact, I am presently (and quietly) planning my departure from a dead end corporate job where I work as a director (with minimal benefits), in order to establish my own consultancy again.
Thrilling, and yet anxiety-inducing...but the advantages of self-employment far outweigh any downside. And for me, it's work that actually makes a difference - - both in my life and those I will soon advise.
2
When you're importing over 1 million new workers every single year, it's no mystery why jobs are not easy to come by. Yet immigration isn't even mentioned in the article. Immigration ensures wages are kept lower across the spectrum - from custodial and hospitality to manufacturing and high tech. It's great for shareholders and CEOs, and makes for decent net economic growth numbers, but not so good for the working class.
20
Immigrant here. My husband, also an immigrant went through a huge screening process to get the job he does. We have boxes of evidence proving his education and experience. His degree and experience were deemed equivalent to a US PHd. They also contain references from prominent people in his field and paperwork where the company tried to find an American to do his job, with no avail. His pay and benefits are no more or no less than someone with his credentials.
1
I have a college degree and extensive experience in marketing, advertising and writing for Fortune 500 companies. I lost my job in the 2008 recession. I sent out hundreds of resumes, networked, went to job fairs.
Absolutely no one will even consider a woman over 50. Her experience, references, and track record do not matter at all.
Thankfully, my husband has a job. I have been doing volunteer work since I was judged no longer employable.
There are millions of people like me, most of whom do not have the good fortune to have another source of support. We are completely invisible and completely disposable.
Losing your market value translates into loss of self-esteem, loss of financial security and isolation. There is a reason that suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the United States. And it's rising.
152
@Shar
Gen x is persona non grata.
in creative industry work, most companies are made up of either a boomer with no intentions of retiring (aka loosening their grip on power) anytime soon, or you're under 30 and floating resumes daily, while sitting on too much debt to let a better opportunity pass by.
honest advice: add graphic design and web development to your skill set, then go boutique and local.
4
When job applicants apply to a position, it’s done online electronically. Resumes are being screened by an algorithm with few of them being forwarded to a real person to read. This is a real problem. My brother in law who has a graduate degree from a prestigious university and has produced measurable results for the companies he’s worked for has been out of work for two years and is still looking.
24
@Annabelle K. The electronic processes are very badly broken.
For a job searcher, the electronic processes are only a bit better at producing results than buying a lottery ticket. Yet the electronic processes are a lot more costly in time and difficulty and nuisance.
For the potential employers, the electronic processes would result in, at best, a very nominal new employee. The 5-star candidate's credentials are quickly sorted to the electronic trash bin.
I've only gotten through by slipping paper resumes under doors. And then, "over-qualified" == over-aged. That's modern-day MBA evaluation technique.
As has been true for centuries, you've got to know somebody "on the inside".
10
The way the unemployment rate is reported is more a measure of desperation than job fulfillment .
First there is absolutely no accounting of the number of folks who are no longer in the market and still unemployed
Second because health care is an overriding concern jobs are held not because they are fulfilling but because they are means of survival
Third folks who need 2+ jobs are bundled in the same category of those whose needs are met by one paycheck.
31
@Jose Using U3 unemployment numbers rather than U6 is the first problem... U3 doesn't include discouraged workers or people who have settled for part time employment. U3 is typically 1/2 of the U6 number.
8
@Jose
The Bureau of Labor Statistics does report data on the first and third groups you mention. "[F]olks who are no longer in the market and still unemployed" is a contradiction because the definition of unemployed is not having a job but still in the market, having made some minimal effort to find work during the previous four weeks. That minimal effort can be as little as asking someone if they know of any job openings. Despite that the BLS does report the number of persons not in the labor force (the market) who currently want a job (4,637,000 in September). It also reports the number of workers who are "marginally attached to the labor force", those who have worked or looked for work sometime in the last year and want a job even though they are not currently trying to find one (1,299,000). They also report "discouraged workers" the subset of the marginally attached who are not looking for work because they believe they won't find it (321,000).
The BLS also reports the number of persons with multiple jobs (8,331,000 in September) and breaks it down into those with a full time job (35 hours or more per week) and a part time job (4,787,000), those with more than one part time job (2,050,000), those with more than one full time job (279,000), and those whose work at multiple jobs where the hours vary (1,115,000).
1
I'm 39 and work in tech. I'm very aware that this could be me since I'm already old for my industry.. if I lost my job, searching at my age would be challenging.
One of the added factors in this economy is that personal branding is also a factor. If your resume even gets received by a person (hopefully everyone knows that that process is now automated and your cv needs to be keyworded accordingly,) you do need some personal branding/presence online to back it up. If a resume landed in my inbox I'd look the person up, first thing. Who are they talking to publicly and what about? Do their posts indicate someone who's plugged in? Especially for older people, this can give a sense of energy level and engagement around relevant issues and ideas, regardless of the field. Most people associate online social media engagement with millenials and that makes sense, but for older workers I'd argue that it's equally if not more important. In lieu of meeting you outright, how one presents online is the factor here that's new and often overlooked.
23
@AB A 39 year old worrying about their age in the workforce. It has gotten that bad.
6
@AB
If you work in IT and are aging out get into government IT. Seriously. Federal, state, local or NGO. Develop client functional knowledge. You will never lack for work.
There is an implicit bias against older workers and “older” basically means anyone whose resume indicates they are 40+. Combine that with freelance work or permanent employment that doesn’t last very long, and searching for employment becomes one long slog. Oh, that there were a way to find jobs for all the folks seeking employment.....some way that bypasses all the disqualifiers that prospective employers have built into their processes that have nothing to do with someone’s ability to do a job.
15
@Vicki
When I was working (retired now), I always struggled with this cruelty of the culture. I had lots of skill and good job habits but never worked at a steady job for more than three years. Until about age 45 I made a good faith effort to effect a career in a field I loved but intense competition and lack of good positions precluded me ever having much of a career.
4
This economy has divided companies into haves and havenots and not just workers based on skills. A few companies like the Googles and Facebooks are enormously profitable and pay their workers high wages, but there are a lot of companies in retail as an example, where profits are hard to come by, hence workers can't get full time gigs, higher wages and other guarantees. How can companies promise workers much when they are barely hanging on.
9
As many have commented here, ageism is real in the job market. If you are over 50, you might as well forget about finding a decent paying job in the private sector as it won’t happen except for a very small percentage of applicants. Nothing is going to change that. The only possible solution is for the U.S. government to create a modern day WPA that will offer decent paying jobs for doing work critical to the functioning of our country.
109
I recently went to a city-wide HR conference as part of my duties at my low-paying day job. Couldn’t help but notice that the crowd of several hundred HR professionals was almost entirely comprised of white women who appeared to be ages 25 to 45. During the presentations, which mostly focused on how hard it is for these folks to find qualified candidates, more than one presenter stated that the problem is finding good candidates who already have jobs.
Let’s hear it for diversity and inclusiveness. To older job seekers everywhere: ever wonder why you rarely get responses when you send out well-crafted resumes for jobs you’re highly qualified for? Perhaps you’re not a demographic match for the HR good old girls club?
I once overheard a young female coworker who was screening applicants for an assistant job: “I’m so excited about this one. We have so many friends in common on Facebook!” Our HR manager didn’t comment when I pointed this out to her. Equal opportunity employment for all, especially if you’re in the girls’ Facebook clique.
93
Unemployed posters: Are you applying for local, county, state and federal jobs? The public sector has myriad rules regarding applicant discrimination, responding to applicants, etc. I’ve been on several hiring panels (I’m a 56 yo DoD fed with a Masters), and I can relate that none of them precluded applicants due to age; it’s ALL about having a certain hard skill set that is demonstrated in past work history. We ask questions like, “Tell us about a time you used your project management/budget analysis/server application/curriculum development skills to complete an important project.” I work in small agency with about 700 employees, and I’d say 70 percent of workers are over 50. We’re FAR more worried about the “brain drain” that will accompany the impending mass retirement of our experienced boomers.
19
Those public sector jobs can be hard to get, especially in my neck of the woods. There is usually a fee to apply and a test to take. I have gotten 100 on multiple county exams and only had one interview. That one was like speed dating, and in hindsight I think they already had their candidate picked (nepotism) and were just going through the motions.
16
@Laurie No, but thinking outside of the box certainly seems to be an issue for hiring teams. My husband chose to get a liberal arts PhD. Admittedly a poor choice but despite his background in research, management, organization and deductive reasoning all gained from his degrees, he cannot find a job. No public or private sector position has returned his call, knock or email. To help put food on the table for our family while I work 65+ hours weekly and attempt to maintain a relationship with our toddler, he works in the most challenging local schools as a substitute teacher. He receives extra pay for watching students whose behavior in class is a terrifying threat to us all. That is all he can do. Ageism isn't the only issue, in fact the very qualifications stopping him from being in many of these positions were set by Boomers and would not have been in place when Boomers were the over-educated liberal arts graduates. Being willing to think beyond the narrow scope of qualifications to someone who could do a stunning job with perhaps a few days of training is a huge problem as well. The unemployed academic elite are a haven of resource, now unable to even get jobs at Starbucks because a full background check dismisses them as educationally overqualified.
14
@Laurie Same credentials. Experience that exactly matched the job posting from a large and well known private firm. I was told by someone who knew that that particular large private firm had very strict policies prohibiting age discrimination.
Yet once I got my credentials hand delivered to the desk of the technical hiring manager, his personal bias (he was holding the position open--for months--for an insider) caused him to trash my application.
That technical manager was also was ignoring any other applications that were arriving electronically (including--I presume--mine). So discrimination is still real inside big firms.
I don't know the electronic path that job applications for public local, state, and federal positions travel over. But all the electronic paths I've sent documents through are managed by private 3rd-party recruitment processes. Beyond being badly botched in vision and interpretative skills, those providers are free to discriminate. That too is a way for hiring managers to take advantage of a discriminatory fence that potential applicants have to climb over.
3
Laid off at 60. Did contractor work for a time, and although the money was ok, the cost of health insurance was difficult.
I support Obamacare, people should have insurance and the government should subsidize for low income, but if your income is a little above the limit, the cost is unreal. I did find a full-time job and took it. It paid about 60% of what I use to make, but the health coverage was good.
We need two things from the Democratic presidential candidates. First -- and this should be the top priority -- climate change. Second, universal healthcare.
If businesses no longer have responsibility for health insurance, they may worry less about hiring older people. It will also give people more freedom. Universal health care would have made a big difference for me. I stayed in some miserable jobs for healthcare.
220
I was a "data processing" headhunter for 30 years in the 70's, 80's and 90's and I can let you in on a little secret, age discrimination was, and still is, the only form of discrimination still allowed in these litigious times. If you could code, it didn't matter if you were a minority, a woman or right off the boat, there was a job for you in the burgeoning tech market. However, no matter how skilled you were, if you were over fifty, you "didn't fit in with the culture of the company" or "couldn't grow with the company" ...etc. It was unfair, unlawful and sometimes heartbreaking but there was definitely a sell by date for tech talent. I'm guessing it is still going on because most of the freelance computer people here in Florida are older people who deliver pizza to make ends meet. What a waste of hard earned talent.
182
@Rick Gage not to mention wisdom.
16
This is why job growth data is bogus. When unemployment goes down, it's not because Americans have found employment. Unemployment checks have ceased and those working, as mentioned in the article, have two jobs to barely survive. Some have three part-time jobs. So it looks great as reported by the media. Let's be realistic when being presented with "data." Numbers can be played with as we all should know. This is obviously blatant in school districts with standardized testing. Math and reading scores that were once hopelessly dismal suddenly rise to heights beyond comprehension. I know this as a 31 year veteran educator. Wake up, America!
36
1. Untethering healthcare from a job would help.
2. Facebook’s largest growth is in the 50+ age group. How many employees in that age group are sipping lattes in the employee coffee bar this a.m.? Consumers of every age buy things, you need to be listening. (And hiring pretty 20 year olds to drive Cadillacs and Buicks on TV does not make them your demographic, it just ignores your actual demographic publicly and fuels ageism.)
3. Twenty four year olds with low salaries cannot run your all your departments better, even if they have a giant student loan to pay. You know this and you don’t care if the work is not as good, the jobs are too big (plenty of folks are still working 2-3 jobs-in-1 since the recession) and it creates a stressful workplace. You do this even though you are sitting on piles of cash (looking at you big companies).
4. As a society we don’t acknowledge how many people depend on a person with a good job and benefits. An earner pays a kid’s tuition, a home health aide for a parent, help a family member with a down payment or financial assistance, even just providing advice and connections. Esp in a lower socioeconomic tier, folks with good jobs are anchors in their systems.
4. College has become so expensive, folks at middle age cannot justify the cost/benefit.
5. We have to do better. We all get old if we are lucky, so let’s not stigmatize it.
111
This article substantiates what I have long suspected - the statistics are not an accurate picture of employment in this country. We have been in a long cycle of the destruction of fair pay for manual and service jobs, ever since the Republicans began their attack on unions. And even formerly substantial corporate jobs are now "gig" work, no benefits no job security. Until we fix the rules regarding fair pay for employees the wealth disparity in this country will only get worse.
38
The reality is the economy is doing much better than the disaster Bush left behind, but not better than the point Obama-Biden has gotten us. Trump talks a big game but has done nothing tangible that would positively effect the economy. Unemployment is indeed down to historic levels, wages have not increased for the middle class as this article confirms. Pundits who claim low unemployment rates will help get Trump re-elected perplex me. The Unemployment rate decreased 65%under Obama from 10%- 4.7% and 22 % under Trump 4.7- 3.7. Wages are stagnant and it is a lie to claim things are better under Trump. Given the fact his tariffs and Trade Wars and tax cuts have down little to spur investment and increased GDP like they promised and overall had a negative effect on growth. Trump is a failure at business as usual and delusional enough to claim success.
26
@EPMD
“it is a lie to claim things are better under Trump.”
Geezus, the psychic damage he has inflicted on the country is enormous!
3
Having been a recruiter for over twenty years in N.J. and weathered several economic downturns over those years, this article is a glaring reminder that YES, age discrimination is real, and 'ghosting' has become an accepted and tolerated process by both applicants and employers.
Some of these companies listed in your article were previous clients and even 'us recruiters' are on that same receiving end when the job opening is real, but the hiring manager and/or HR decides to either freeze the hiring or move in a different direction. Sometimes the recruiter is the last to know.
The gig economy is definitely here to stay.
38
None of this is a surprise to anyone working or looking for a decent job in the past several years. What's more shocking are the constant and unquestioned endorsements in the mainstream media and political pundit class of the supposed wondrous economy and job market we've all been enjoying in the Trump years. Nope.
64
@John C.
Yes. The New York Times and these comments are real. The belief that the job market is great is fake!
7
This idea of a tight labor market is a myth. Employer actions indicate that they can pick and choose from a substantial pool of prospective employees, and thus continue their policies of low wages, few benefits, poor working hours, and various other degradations.
A better gauge is the labor force participation rate, which is barely above 63%, lower than many other industrialized countries. Thus almost 37% of people who are eligible to participate in the labor force do not at any given time. These folks may float in and out of the labor market at will, and employers know that when such a large number of workers are potentially in play, the labor market is far from "tight."
24
@Tom Overall I agree with what you are saying about the labor participation rate. But the statistic you are citing is for those over 18 (and that includes college students and people 65 and older). Much more relevant is the participation rate of adults between 25-54, which last month was 80.1. https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12300060
1
@notkafka1 Re the upper age limit, are you ready to retire at age 55 and able to support yourself for 25 or 30 years? Not many folks are. Full social security does not kick in till your late 60’s and the republicans would like to raise it further if not eliminate It and Medicare altogether. A good job, as much as we might complain about the daily grind, is a good thing.
8
@Tom
In the U.S. the labor force participation rate is reported as a percentage of the civilian non-institutional population age 16 or older. Of the 96 million people outside the labor force, 20 million are age 75 and older. Do you really think that they are ready to float into it? How about the 11 million who are under age 20?
The OECD reports labor force participation rates based on the entire population age 15 to 64 years old. For 2018 the U.S. rate was 73.63%, a bit higher than the rate for the OECD as a whole, 72.44%, and a little bit lower than the EU rate, 73.91%.
I retired at 56 as an engineering manager, acted as Mr Mom for four years, and came out of retirement this year at 60 as an engineer.
The jobs are out there but you might have to be willing to relo.
6
@EGD
Yeah, and that's so easy to do these days, with the affordable housing crisis. Get real.
5
Where are the jobs? My brother was layed off twice in two years due to downsizing in two different places. In one place he lost his job but the employer hired younger people for less salary. In the last one, the company was sold and they had to downsize. He has been looking for a steady job for the last three years. He has applied for everything, literally everything. He, according to the prospect employers, is either overqualified or not skilled enough. He is freelancing, working part time to one of the former employers, even valet parking. He is working 7 days a week without benefits and he does not have insurance. His income has decreased dramatically in the last three years. He is 52. Where are the jobs?
65
I’ve always had the best luck finding work by building relationships, going to events, having coffee with old colleagues, etc. People like to work with people they know or at least people their friends of friends know. Statistically finding a job through ads is really tough.
Also, remove graduation years and the first few jobs off your resumes so no one knows your age during the vetting process. Age can be a hindrance but it can also be an asset—experience, polish, professionalism and a network don’t come from fresh-faced 30 year olds.
Hang in there.
15
@Brooklyn Dog Geek: And learn and use correct, academic English.
I was a "data processing" headhunter for 30 years in the 70's, 80's and 90's and I'll let you in on an open secret, age discrimination is
16
GOP nirvana remains low paying jobs, no benefits, no future, and no bathroom breaks. It even longs to return to the glory days of child labor.
38
@David Henry
These are the "facts":
Average wage growth is now $5K compared to $1100 under Obama's 8 years. Lower paid Americans have benefited the most in this economy.
1
@AACNY
"Lower paid Americans have benefited the most in this economy."
Really . . . then why are so many of my friends and acquaintances working 2-3 jobs just to be able to eat and pay rent? Being perpetually broke and exhausted in order to meet the most basic standards of living in this country doesn't seem to be much of a "benefit." The fact is that scrambling for existence is dispiriting and far from "beneficial." But considering that a lot of conservatives are a punitive, scolding, boot-straps-lecturing bunch, maybe they don't see it that way.
14
“Average” is calculated by taking highest number, lowest number, and dividing to get the middle number. So your “average” is skewed by inflated CEO pay. It is not synonymous with “typical pay for everybody” or even “most people”.
14
The sentiment that no one over 40 is employable is so true. I have applied for positions for which I am well qualified, have excellent references and a great resume but once I get to the F2F that’s it. Sorry, you did a great interview and are very qualified but .......insert any number of patronizing statements here ......
89
Your headline is true especially if you are over a certain age say age 50.
Age discrimination in hiring is today's black or female discrimination circa 1960.
It is total, accepted, institutionalized and ugly.
116
@Paul
Absolutely correct. The 'traditional' social contract between employers and employees is never coming back. Once you hit 50 it's the gig economy or nothing.
52
@Markymark Thank you for your reply. It is amazing how history repeats itself. I saw the end of discrimination against blacks and women circa 1960-1980 and now the pattern repeats itself all over again with senior workers.
It is widespread and institutionalized with just about every major corporation and just as ugly.
8
Just an FYI. The Black discrimination never went away. If you’re feeling the “perceived” age discrimination — then welcome to the club — this is what Black people have had to and still contend with. Of course, those over 50 can try making themselves look younger. Unfortunately, Blacks and other minorities over 50 can’t make themselves look whiter.
16
@Ellis Well, given your experience with fresh-faced MBAs who can afford a branding consultant and with corporate HR professionals sharing their candid views, I’d say the Times reporters got it all wrong. I can only hope that next time the paper runs one of those annoying items on homelessness, a real estate agent in Greenwich, CT will take time to comment.
18
This article clearly points out why pronouncements of economic improvement and stability should be more closely scrutinized. The unemployment rate, as presently defined, does not reflect the reality of employment in this age. It was developed for another era. While it is helpful to be able to compare unemployment rates across different years, those rates do not provide meaningful representation for an employee’s ability to earn his or her way to a life of stable and meaningful work today.
I would like to see an employment/unemployment metric that indicates something like FTE used to, that is a full-time equivalent of a meaningful wage, one that reflects living costs today and factors in non-wage elements such as regular work hours, guaranteed work weeks, costs of maintaining multiple jobs, etc. While upwardly mobile, steady traditional employment still exists, I believe the labor market is becoming increasingly fragmented and filled with stop-gap employees who run from one part-time job to another trying to make ends meet. We are currently measuring the wrong things and until we correct this fundamental problem and understand the dimension of the problem, we are going to fail. Meanwhile, I’m going to scream every time someone says the economy is healthy and employment is strong. It just isn’t so.
50
It’s now common knowledge that the unemployment rate doesn’t represent the true percentage of people who are looking for work. Having looked for jobs after 15 weeks, you are no longer part of the equation at least in the government and media eyes. Age is a huge factor on getting a job. Unfortunately, if you have 10-20 years experience puts your job chances to a low point. Let’s be honest, it’s not how experienced you are, it’s all about your expected salary. As an senior architect when I’ve been looking for work, salary is the first question the interviewer asks, which in my case, ends the conversation.
35
Employers are not allowed to ask that question in California anymore.
When I read these stories, it makes me so glad that I was born when there was a robust and growing American middle class, a good job right out of college and a feeling that, if you worked hard and performed well, the sky would be the limit. I realize that life wasn’t anywhere near the same if you were black or brown, but I am grateful for the opportunities given to me. I never thought our nation would experience such a decline in economic mobility. It’s one of the great failures of the past few decades and I feel sad that current and future generations won’t have the same positive experiences I had in working my way up the ladder.
50
Many of those sidelined workers who left the job market have returned to work. Yesterday's discussion of interest rates confirmed that this trend is expected to continue.
There is a cohort that still wants their old lives back. That's not the market's fault. They need to adapt.
2
@AACNY The “market” is fixed against the worker. The gig economy pushes out those who want a full time job with benefits and some security. The “market” is for those who choose to fill the pockets at the expense of the workers. How is your life aacny? ever lose a job, ever walk in those shoes - there are no guarantees for you either.
43
@AACNY
I think they have. They are working contract jobs and driving Ubers. It's what the American system offers: great wealth for a few, downward mobility for the rest.
60
Have they returned to work? As a seasonal hire in retail? As a home health aide or certified nursing assistant at $12.00 an hour before taxes ( no healthcare benefits, no paid vacation)?As a security guard for an agency that requires the employee to pay for a background check/fingerprint? This is employment that cannot sustain physical and mental health and probably cannot keep a roof over one’s head.
I am willing to bet YOU have a job that is both financially and professionally fulfilling. It is so easy to demean those who don’t.
93
I see there weren't any comments from the (by far) largest job networking site for professionals....Linkedin. LI is an immense influence on how people are reviewed, contacted, dialogued with (e.g. just In Messaging or emails/phone) and LI should have a separate, centralized age 50+ section with all the expertise, credentials, work e..g portfolios) so for those who realize the potentials in benefits/advantages can address more knowledgeble...its a valid thought to separate out this cohort. The U-6 number is a complete fallacy relative to gig economy jobs...my estimage is 40% to 50% higher in "underemployed" , working part time but wants full time, etc.
15
@robinhood377 RE: Linkedin. Maybe 5 years ago Linkedin was a good place to make connections, and I suppose it is useful to have a way to store contacts from high school and college. But as a place for posting and sharing information and networking, it is mostly useless. I see too many posts praising one's employer or reposting a current employer's recent press release. Personally I have found reddit 10x more useful for learning about opportunities and market information -- despite the fact that most of the members post under pseudonyms. This is another case where the true customers for Linkedin are the companies and HR firms which want to find workers with specialized skills. Finally, recently I contacted 3 strangers on Linkedin -- not about finding a job and certainly I wasn't soliciting anything. I merely wanted to convey what I thought was useful legal information about something that individual had previously published. I found it curious and interesting that none of them had replied -- had they even read my messages? This makes me wonder whether Linkedin is even relevant anymore.
8
@robinhood377: I've been on LinkedIn for years. I've had my profile professionally reworked three times. I keep everything up to date. LinkedIn is a cruel joke.
4
If you had a 50 section , no employer would go there, no person on that list would ever get a contact.
9
We live in an amazing time. The modern economy—built on technological innovation and the specialization of labour—has produced vast wealth, unprecedentedly high standards of living for hundreds of millions of people, and the ability to support a global population of more than seven billion.
And yet, the very strengths upon which our economic system is built are now driving that system toward catastrophic collapse. The problems are fourfold: environmental, economic, social, and political. Climate change and other forms of environmental degradation caused by our economic activity are threatening to destroy the basics upon which life depends. Our economy, while it produces great wealth, is increasingly failing to deliver financial security to the vast majority of working people. Instead wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few, while the mass of humanity struggles with insecure employment and the inability to maintain a steady, adequate income to meet basic expenses. Socially, the impermanence of jobs leads to constant displacement of people and therefore the weakening of communities and even family connections. Politically, growing discontent with the state of the economy is leading to xenophobic nationalism, at the very same time that the combination of globalization and economic disruption is causing huge movements of populations.
I'm not normally susceptible to apocalyptic thinking. But surveying the world today, I can't help thinking we're on the brink of disaster.
69
@617to416 And many of us really don't care that millions of people in China and India and Malaysia have been raised out of dire poverty to an existence that would not even be considered middle class in the US. I think it's criminal of the US to let US companies send all this labor and intellectual property to essentially hostile countries.
1
Labor and unemployment statistics do not reflect people who have stopped looking for a job or who, undereducated and proud of it, never bothered to get one.
9
@B.
Not quite. The "stopped looking" unemployed cohort is returning to the workforce. Ditto for non-college graduates.
1
Non-college graduates do get jobs. I refer to men both hanging out everywhere, in apartment building entranceways, and strolling country roads in mid-day. Unemployed and not looking for work -- everywhere.
1
@B.
There will always be a chronically unemployed cohort. They get great benefits in New York State.
2
If you are over 40 you are unemployable for full time work. You can get contract work but employers don’t want you full time when they know they can hire you as a contractor. If we had universal healthcare and businesses had to pay a minimum for each part time and contract worker there would be more people working full time jobs. Corporations like to keep their workers in line and so they like temp workers -
145
@Deirdre I have a masters degree and two bachelors degrees. I went back to school at age 50 for my nursing degree. At age 60 - I just landed my 3rd full time nursing job all due to my own choosing. I agree that business does not want to pay for the benefits of their employees. It is an extra expense. I agree 100% that universal healthcare would help level out this current insanity.
32
@GB
Healthcare jobs are in great demand and they generally pay pretty well. But this too is in some ways a troubling phenomenon. With an ageing and unhealthy population, healthcare is one of the few parts of our economy that is still growing strong, that is flush with money to pay higher wages, and that requires jobs to stay local. Is it sustainable?
14
@Deirdre
Employers have to control their costs just like you and I do. We choose ride shares, groceries, insurance, everything based on what we can afford. Employers do the same especially for their largest expense (labor), or they will fold. And yes when employers are expending considerable time and money to hire someone, the expectation is that person obeys orders, otherwise what exactly are they being paid for?
The unemployment rate is a total farce. It does not track people who are in gig jobs, contract jobs with no benefits and job security, those who are terribly underemployed or those who have given up hope. The real unemployment rate is closer to 15 percent IMHO. Age discrimination is rampant.
204
When employers have applicants’ email addresses in electronic form, there’s no excuse for not getting back to them. Even if HR is understaffed, it wouldn’t take much – hire an intern. Proper response would be to shame these employers publicly on a website.
As for censoring information on the internet, it's too late. Our ages, family status, and other information are all quickly available, so legal protections are a joke. Age and other discriminatory decisions by employers will likely never appear in verifiable form. There should be more detailed reporting to identify patterns of discrimination in hiring and employment, with the burden for providing information on the employer. Applicants are powerless.
Unemployment statistics are clearly inaccurate and insufficient and should be changed. Write your representatives.
The chief drivers for the gig economy are costs for health care and other benefits. So if 50% time is the threshold for eligibility for benefits, then if health care and pension costs are prorated or general through universal healthcare, not funded by employers, then the incentives go away. Yes, taxes will increase to pay for it, but the overall costs to each us should go down, and there will be less inequality and better quality of life. Where do people think widespread low pay without benefits will lead? Will a generation of impoverished seniors and young people continue to drive a consumer-driven economy?
27
@Citoyen du monde They avoid lawsuits by not getting back to applicants and that doesn't change just because they can do an email mail merge.
2
Let's not forget that in states which did not expand Medicaid, unemployed and part-time workers may not qualify for Obamacare. Texas did not expand Medicaid. In Houston (where I live), 27% of adults 18 and older have no health insurance to speak of. (Source: HHS Health of Houston Survey (218) p 10).
27
This needs to be explored further. What happens to all these job applications once people apply to them on the various job portals. Is there follow up from the posting company? Do they provide progress report on the application and follow up with the persons not selected?
1
@Farang Ghadiali: Follow-up? I’m sorry I laughed. The cold truth is that nothing happens. Those who are not hired are ignored. They never hear from any HR person, no matter the means of application. Applicants are tossed into the shredder along with the discarded résumés.
66
Last time I was on a job hunt I only ever heard from those who were interested in a phone or in-person interview. I must have applied for hundreds of jobs for 3 replies.
15
I have a two master's degrees and worked as a librarian at the Ivy League university in NYC for 14 years. I was drummed out in 2009 after the subprime mortgage swindle. I had applied for over 2,000 jobs in New York before looking at my life, packing up, and moving to Oshkosh merely because a friend of mine was from there, and she talked about how much she missed it. I never did get even one interview in librarianship. Instead, I went to a psychiatrist, got a diagnosis for generalized anxiety disorder, applied for Social Security disability, appealed the denial, and got the benefits, including rudimentary health care and SNAP benefits. I started maxing out my credit cards intentionally (car repairs, rent, my mother's medical bills, and other non-negotiables), forwarded my phone calls to a non-working number, and now live on those disability benefits and supplement up to the legal limit by substitute teaching in classes for special education and emotionally disabled children. Nobody else wants to do it, I'm excellent at working with those children. My bilingualism with Spanish is in high demand here. I found my niche at a very high mental and financial price. I have absolutely no intention of paying those credit cards off or even declaring bankruptcy. I don't care; let the big banks write off the bad debts nd have them sold from one debt company to another. My credit score went from 780 to 584 in six months. But my anxiety is controlled, I have real friends, and am at peace.
241
Wow is all I can say. Hats off to you. Nobody other than the low income paid the price for 2008
59
@Eggs & Oatmeal The game has changed and you adjusted your plays. Smart moves my friends. Better than losing to a rigged house.
27
@Eggs & Oatmeal Bravo! If the system doesn't work for you, you learn to work the system. I learned to work the system after I was aged out of the workplace at 47. Now I am comfortably retired.
26
The last line about nuisance calls is telling. No one does (or should) answer a phone that does not display a name you know. Legitimate calls will leave a message (so will many scams, of course).
Job hunters cannot afford to ignore unknown phone calls. They are prey for the worst of the worst: the telemarketer, especially one who offers a quick loan (hang up now!!).
16
Oh, I totally agree, I did not actually pick up the phone, the voicemail proved it to be a telemarketer. But yes, that’s what I go through with every single phone call I get these days....real or fake?
20
I have a lot of sympathy for the people in the article. I was unemployed for the first time in my life during the economic collapse that began in 2008. I was 55 years old and had earned a good salary. After six months, I realized my age and salary history made it very unlikely anyone would hire me even if I was well qualified or even over-qualified for the job. It was very humbling and eventually depressing. I was lucky. I landed in a good position that will enable me to retire in a few years, but I know a lot of people, older workers in particular, have not been so lucky. Many are unlikely to ever find an adequately rewarding job again. Those jobs are gone thanks to automation, globalization and the wholesale exportation of American jobs for the benefit of the investor class. For those people, we need some sort of quasi-retirement program that will allow them to work when they can, or volunteer to do useful work in their communities if they are able in exchange for an assured minimum income. Older workers who have worked a lifetime deserve no less.
189
I didn’t enter the job market until I was 45 but was then lucky enough to be steadily employed in big box garden centers with my horticulture knowledge and sales ability until I moved 15 years later. After four months of searching I’m having to draw on my social security early and retirement years earlier than expected. What I really want to do is work and be a valuable member of a team that I know will mainly consist of employees decades younger than me. I always found that age makes no difference when you’re part of a team.
23
@Jocelyn Pearl
I tried to get a seasonal position caring for plants at the big box stores which given my degrees and experience in this field should have made me a shoe-in. But alas, I was in my 50's and the interviewer expressed his concerns that I'd be "too old" to be able to do this job so he was going to hire a gal who had just finished high school instead.
15
@Jocelyn Pearl That's another workplace issue no one discusses. We all want to be a meaningful part of a team, and employers say they want team members, but they really want to set employees at each other's throats and continuously eliminate the least performing metrics (and the humans attached to those metrics). No one feels like part of a team. We're just a pack of gazelles the slowest of which each day becomes food for the next lion.
7
Only if the manager hired you for the team...
2
This feels like the mid 2000s all over again. Back then the stock market was at an all time high, and housing prices (the supposed bedrock of middle class prosperity) also were at all time highs. But the whole thing was a mirage, a doomed, debt-fueled binge. And when it all came crashing down, the people at the top could not care less. They just skated along, as if nothing happened.
Now the stock market again is at an all time high and the unemployment rate (supposedly an indicator of middle class prosperity) is at a (nearly) all time low. And again, the whole thing is a mirage, a jumble of fragile, low pay, no-benefits, no savings, "everyone's an independent contractor", "gig", scams. And the people at the top could not care less. They just keep taking more and more for themselves, while skating along, as if nothing is happening.
215
@A Nobody : So long as most of us merely sit in our seats passively, or attend services at Prosperity Gospel megachurches, or keep allowing our thoughts to be shaped by the mouthpieces of the corporate world (whether that would be the folks on Fox News, on MSNBC, or at The N.Y. Times), nothing is about to improve for the majority of Americans.
Can you imagine a million people in the streets here in the U.S., demanding an end to neoliberalism, such as we've been seeing recently in Santiago, Chile? I cannot.
24
‘.....adding that they are also suspicious of any gaps in a résumé.’
The reason that resumé gaps are suspicious is because HR can no longer call a previous employer to get honest feedback on a prospective employee. The most they can get is dates of employment; in the old days a good employee let go for reasons beyond their control could have a reasonable chance that their former employer would explain that. I know, however, that employers are simply protecting themselves from litigation. With any gap now, employers have to assume the worst.
Another contributing factor is the ease with which applicants can submit resumés. Since the advent of the internet applicants have been able to easily send out hundreds of resumés, swamping HR departments, who in response take shortcuts by looking for pre determined keywords. A qualified applicant can lose out by simply not knowing the keywords. And when they ghost applicants because of being overwhelmed, it further demoralizes those ghostees.
This is not the entire story, though, the rest being the economy, outsourcing, robotics, and other factors.
56
If the Feds passed a law that anyone 55 or older is allowed to grow and sell marijuana it would give the underemployed in my age group something to do and something to live on. Age discrimination in employment is real. This would help counteract it.
25
Because everyone out of work seems to have skills in "managing people". Managing people really isn't rocket science. Everyone can work with people, to varying degrees of effectiveness. But what skills do you have that another person on the street literally could not do if you offered them a pile of money to do? If I put a electrical board in front of someone with the tools, how many people could troubleshoot it? If I have a software program not working correctly and I sit someone in front of the code and say "make it work", how many people could do that?
General "do exactly what you are told to do" skills are shared by every person in the world. But the skill shortages businesses are talking about are more concrete than that.
14
LOL! Do you think there would be a million (I’m estimating, but the number could be more) books written about managing people if it were so simple and easy? Not saying that hard skills aren’t important - because they are- but soft skills like managing people actually make a huge difference in a company’s success.
4
@Chris Hinricher If I put you in a room with 20 six year olds could you manage that?
1
We have cut our small business workforce by 2 in the past 3 years.
That means that I have been able to raise wages for the remaining employees, retaining the best, and that they have plenty of hours, but 2 fewer people are employed.
There really are ‘invisible ‘ consequences when wages go up. I think many businesses have learned what we have - more is not necessarily better.
A leaner team of highly motivated people can often accomplish more than a larger team with less motivation.
13
@organic farmer In NYC restaurants report better report after the mandated increase in the minimum wage. May be people who earn more are motivated to be even more productive …
@organic farmer
Maybe they’re afraid of being cut.
Times, why don't you do a story on age discrimination? Apparently that's the real story here.
439
@Pat
That's the elephant in the living room. It would mean taking on so many powerful companies; how many workers age 50 plus do you suppose Google, Apple, Facebook, AirBnB etc have? It's the only sanctioned form of discrimination we have. The thing is, it's not just younger people who do this to older people but even bosses and hiring managers who reject applicants in their own age range. I've seen this happen far too often.
187
@Greenie Most hiring manager who are older and reject candidates in their age range, do so from a self preservation perspective. They most probably do not want to hire someone more qualified than them or has the potential to outshine them.
45
@Pat ProPublica does an excellent job reporting on age discrimination in the US. Here's an example: https://www.propublica.org/article/older-workers-united-states-pushed-out-of-work-forced-retirement
32
I am machine learning engineer .. I get 5 to 10 calls a day even though I am not in the job market. My biggest fear is keeping my team intact.. I don't want other companies to lure my reportees away..
4
I can confirm this based on my son's experience. He has two bachelor's degrees where he graduated Magna Cum Laude in both programs which garnered him a scholarship to an Ivy League school for graduate work where he graduated with distinction. It's a been a 2 year long job search. It seems the Ivy League degree has turned out to be an albatross around his neck rather than a leg up on the competition (be warned). You would think companies would be thrilled at such a person but they are not. We have been baffled.
52
@Sage X
What are the degrees in?
Makes all the difference in the world.
3
@Sage X
My son has an IVY engineering degree. He opted to take a lower paying job and get real hands on experience. Many of his fellow graduates sought much sexier jobs (ex., AI and SpaceX).
His Chinese boss always hires from the top schools.
4
@Sage X Mostly the Ivies exist to help the children of well placed criminals connect with the well placed parents of the other scions of privilege. All of the minority and poor students at these schools are there to provide "diversity" - some poor and socially unconnected people, the hoi polloi, for the well connected to look down on. If you're an average joe smart enough to go to one of these schools, you're still not going to get invitations to the Hamptons, Biarritz or Vale where you would make the vital connections.
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I also think it's ironic that those who want the retirement age increased to 70 years of age won't hire (or even look at the resume) of someone who is 50+.
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@BA Plus financial advisors say you're supposed to have a million dollars or more saved to live comfortably in retirement. That's hardly possible for today's workers. The business world has become unbalanced by greed at the top of organizations. It is not uncommon for CEO's and senior officers to receive 7 figure salaries and stock options. The employees support those salaries with loss of benefits and job security. Sadly, dollars are valued rather than experience and expertise.
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@BA
beyond irony
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This is the sad truth. There are plenty of jobs if you want a minimum wage job, not so much if you want a traditional job with fringe benefits. Add age discrimination into this mixture, and this exactly what happens. Age discrimination could be fixed, along with Facebook, if laws were in place to bar personal information, like age, available with one easy click on the internet. Prior to the internet, this information was simply not available, forcing employers to actually interview people. I also suspect that younger employees are more desirable because they can be paid less, further complicating the picture. All in all, it's not pretty.
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Even if a law precluded directly asking an applicant for their age, I can't see that or any law effectively blocking the practice of age discrimination. Re many applicants it's simple enough for any prospective employer to accurately estimate DOB by simply looking at the graduation date of a bachelor's degree. Or while confirming employment history by verifying dates of employment with previous employers. The final hurdle is the in-person interview, when personal appearance is on view, and there's no mistaking the general age range of an applicant. IOW, I can't see any law which can effectively block the practice of age discrimination. I'm long-retired myself, but have concerns for my kids who are in their 50's. And the major hospital/health care giant in my area has recently declined to renew employment contracts with several of my over 50, board-certified medical specialists - opting to hire fresh out of residency replacements at far lower salaries.
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@j
Yes indeed. I know how to craft my resume to eliminate dates of degrees and my oldest jobs. Obviously I'm not a kid but still, I could be anywhere in middle-age. But I'm realizing that given the ability of a company to easily ferret out my age online, that's likely what's happening. I recently applied for several positions at one company that I was eminently qualified for and didn't even get a response. Some of these positions were temporary ones too. I was puzzled but now I think you're probably correct; a couple of taps on the keyboard and up pops my age. Next! It's hopeless!
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@j Automation is eliminating many of the "traditional jobs with fringe benefits", replacing them with minimum wage jobs that can't be easily automated. The sad truth is that this trend will only continue and accelerate.
However, there is a way out but the kleptocracy will fight it to the death. The solution starts with taxing extreme profits, income and wealth. Taxing extreme profits does not increase prices or materially effect the lifestyle of the wealthy. The tax money is then used for training, education, day care, healthcare, early retirement and a host of other programs that improve quality of life and job prospects.
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I have a BA from a prestigious liberal arts college and a Masters from an Ivy League, and I can't seem to find a job in this town. I've applied to dozens of city positions which seem right for me, but I've yet to hear back. Two friends who work at city agencies recently told me to stop applying online to city jobs because that "never works" - apparently it's still who you know, not what you know, that can land you a job. It's so discouraging, especially when you come from a working-class, immigrant family, which means we don't have many of the "right" connections. What makes it worse is that applying to one job is not easy - I need to craft a cover letter and résumé each time, though they will probably never be read by anyone. The plethora of jobs listed online doesn't seem to match the harsh realities, and more needs to be done to address this on a larger scale.
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Write to companies you're interested in directly. Show your passion that way. Many don't advertise in the typical way.
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@JBee This is ridiculous advice. Do you know what companies do with unsolicited correspondence? Toss it, unread.
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Not true at all. Depends what you’re writing and who you’re sending to. Flattery will get you many things in life, including informal meetings, intro phone calls, etc.
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I'm a millennial with a professional master's degree. I'm in my mid-30s and I just--as of 2 months ago--got the first job I've ever had that pays a living wage. That opportunity came after 1.5 years of sporadic temp work (which I consider unemployment, even if the government doesn't) and countless job applications to positions across the country. The only reason I was able to finally land a good job was connections. That's how it works in the world today--all those online applications we fill out get chucked into a black hole by the Applicant Tracking System. No human ever sets eye on them. That's one of the major roadblocks to finding a decent middle class job: the hiring process has already been automated. I wish more people were talking about this.
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@Kate, excellent point. The Applicant Tracking Systems you mention enable employers to set up flexible criteria to screen applications for any opportunity. For example, for all opportunities, only consider applicants whose job history indicates that they are currently employed, or whose most recent job ended less than two months ago. For opportunity A, only consider applications with these ten keywords. For opportunity B, candidate must have a current salary between $nn,nnn and $nn,nnn.
Any career coaching program, such as the one mentioned in the article, should clearly explain this to their clients. It will save them time and effort applying for jobs online. Despite how easy it is to apply to hundreds of jobs online, my state’s unemployment service explains that this isn’t the best way to go about a job search.
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So true. when I was laid off from my job in printing my supervisor gave me a number to call. I was hired the next day. I even got my current job because I knew the accountant of my current employer. The accountant dropped my name, I called for an interview, and got the job.
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@Kate : Gen Xer here. My husband and I were in our mid-30s before automated hiring processes kicked in. We both had master's degrees in professional field. And I distinctly remember, right around the 35--37 mark, we both remarked that it was the *first time* we had had long-term living-wage jobs with benefits. (He got his at 35, me at 37).
My point? This has been going on for a long time. It's hard, and it's unfair. But it's likely not due to automation of resume reading.
(As an interesting side note, there is an interesting book called Back from the Land, about the Boomers who went "back to the land" in the 60s/70s and then decided to go back to the city. What's fascinating is how many of them were people in their mid-20s who had managed to graduate from college, get a living-wage job with bennies, buy a house, *and* have kids, all long before turning 30, because that's how the economy was. And not much of a problem from them to find a job when they came back from the land -- no one was agonizing about a "resume gap" back then either.)
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there is a thing I do not understand in the english speaking world - the term is "let go" when people are getting FIRED or layed off - why don´t you call it what it is ?
the other thing reminds of like you are being released from a prison - wake up, people get FIRED !
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@Erik Jensen, typically FIRED now means "fired with cause."
If a company downsizes rather than points out that individual specifically, it probably does not reflect on the individual's abilities.
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@Erik Jensen yes, people do get fired. In my case, though, I wasn’t. Someone else from the ad agency got laid off the same day as me. The agency lost a very large account, and had no choice but to downsize.
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Re: Age Discrimination:
One may think that age discrimination occurs only here in the U.S. No so. My sister, with a PhD works in London, UK. She, too, is paid less than her male peers. She mentioned to me of looking for an other position. She said, "Who wants an wrinkly old lady?" She's only 58.
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This is life in the oligarchy. People are disposable, cheap, interchangeable. Inessential.
I’ve passed the point of expecting America to change, to become more egalitarian, to begin to give a damn. Socialism is a naughty word for half the un- and underemployed, and many of them thought that a kleptomaniac would make a great figurehead.
Enjoy your serfdom, peasants.
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@Dan in Orlando
Right on point Dan ! Sad part is they don’t even realize their nothing but peasants !
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One day you folks will put a spotlight on the elephant in the room: ageism.
I've been a recruiter for 25 years. Ive watched clients blindly pivot to younger candidate resumes for no viable reason. Its a sad and unnecessary bias.
Personally I can report that once my former boss learned I was 50, I lost my 'most favorite status' and was pushed out of my former company after 5 years of exceptional service.
I now work for myself, which is great / daunting but I really didn't have a choice. Now, when I go visit clients, I scan the open office for people like me. Sadly, there aren't any.
When I ask if ageism is part of a company's diversity training, I get puzzled looks.
There's absolutely a problem here.
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Do I hired ten younger employees whose insurance costs $300/month, or ten in their 50s whose insurance costs $800/month? Hmmm...
It costs twice as much or more to insure older workers. Even healthy ones. The premium for a worker is not protected by HIPPA. The invoice for coverage comes detailed by employee. It wasn’t always so....
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You have nailed it. Diversity is defined as race and gender. I went 6 months without a job post start-up, in my early 60s. Thanks to LinkedIn know that jobs for which I made it through rounds of screening and in person interviews went to much younger, less experienced people, including one job where I was told I didn't have enough of X experience yet the younger person hired was almost just out of school and had NONE of said required experience.
I've kept my technical skills up to date, have multi-faceted experience working in different types of organizations, and heard how "perfect" a fit I was. Then they hired a 30-something.
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@Jane Hold that thought for a few more years. When you are let go b/c insuring someone to replace you is so much less (not to mention the salary of a new-hire is also less), let me know if you still agree.
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Anyone who's read 20th century novels by Dreiser, O'Farrell, Dos Passos, or Steinbeck knows it's always been this way in America: we're a dog eat dogwood country.
It's different in Scandinavia, Germany, Switzerland, and even in poorer countries like Poland.
It doesn't have to be that way here.
Vote for Warren. But also vote for congressional candidates who will support justice, even if it means lower corporate profits.
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I agree. (Although the saying is “dog eat dog world.” Your autocorrect has a sense of humor!)
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@Clio
Actually I wrote we're a dog eat dogfood world, but you're right that autocorrect thought it knew better.
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@Green Tea Vote for Elizabeth or Bernie, My dream is a ticket with both of them on it in either order.
I have two MIT degrees, and when I was laid off in my fifties, I became invisible as far as hiring managers were concerned.
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Instead of the focus being on GDP increasing job availability lets rather increase the leisure time of existing employees as a solution to underemployment.
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I am a 70 year old physician who was a full professor at a medical school and ran an 88 physician training program. I have a good reputation in my field. I resigned my position 2 years ago over policy differences and I have been unable to find anything but entry level positions. Is it ageism or the uncertainty prevalent in medical education or lack of star powered or lack of charisma that has kept me from a position where I can use my long experience? I feel my experience has all gone to waste.
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I'd move from S.C. They don't know what's good for them in every way. Seek employment elsewhere and move
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@JBee As a physician it's not easy to move: there's the little issue of licensure. States generally do not give license reciprocity and it requires MOUNTAINS of paperwork. I know this because I moved and it was a nightmare to get my new license, and it took eight months.
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@dr sluggo may be time to start your own business filling a need in your medical education niche. Where is there a gap in what is currently provided that you can fill. Consultant or educational biz. You have a unique expertise with your experience. May be time to leverage it and do even better doing your own way. And better meeting the needs than bureaucratic bloated institutions.
And dont do this alone enlist a powerful team to support you. Just a thought for you. Hope it helps & good luck.
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CEOs should fire HR leaders who don’t respond to EVERY candidate. “Most have none” on her tracking sheet, because no response to an application for employment is an embarrassment to our country and the Human Resources “profession“. Seriously, why in the world it’s become acceptable to not respond in one way or another to an applicant is beyond me.
SHRM is the society for Human Resources management, and I’ve recently dropped my membership because they don’t work toward this embarrassing problem for business & industry.
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@Sally HR Leader Well done. What’s the point of having HR professionals if all they do is dump resumes unread?
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@Sally HR Leader I understand why the employer does not respond to the applicant. For one thing they are out to find the "Right Candidate" not to be fair to 75 respondents. For another thing they don't want to answer any "Well, why did I not get hired?" questions. Also the process of hiring and interviewing is sooo long that by the time they find someone they have forgotten about the ones they tossed aside. Another factor is that the people doing the hiring want to leave their options open in case the person they picked backs out at the last moment (the its not over until its over factor).
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@Donna Williams that’s so frustrating though. I can only speak for myself, but if I were to get a thanks but no thanks email, and then shortly thereafter hear from them again because someone else backed out, I would certainly not let pride stand in the way of accepting the job at that point!
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"A recent survey by Gallup found that a majority of Americans do not consider themselves to be in a “good job.” - there's the rub - statistical non-fun & non-games, just the dismal reality of our mass culture - at least "Joker" and "Parasite" providing some employment possibilities
10
The official unemployment rate is a joke. There are so many people out there who have given up looking, cobble together “gig” work, are self-employed doing whatever they can find etc. And the realties of trying to find a decent job when you’re 50 plus is daunting. Employers want what we know and what we can do but they want it in the body of a cute and perky 30 year old.
Nobody really cares about us. There’s going to be a lot of seniors living in dire poverty. I’m tired of hearing that we all should have somehow saved up a million dollars in our 401-k. I know so many in my age group that got laid off after 50 and they never found a “real job” again.
Millennials think we need to hurry up and die already as they deserve these jobs. What are we all supposed to do?
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@Greenie Hear, hear. The official unemployment rate is indeed a joke. This article just begins to touch on the different groups of potential full-time workers that the Labor Department fails to take into account to come up with its incredibly rosy, result-driven unemployment number. 3.9% unemployment - LOL. If we truly had 3.9% unemployment with those employed having jobs with meaningful wages and meaningful hours, people would have money shooting out of their pockets and the economy would be booming.
Further, the official unemployment number is meaningless, even if it were accurate, because most of the jobs being created in this economy are low-wage, no-growth, dead-end jobs. "Welcome to Walmart," and "Welcome to Chile's" jobs. We no longer have industries that can employ people for decent wages across substantial swaths of the socioeconomic spectrum. And we cannot build an economy solely out of esoteric services and products for personal consumption. There is no such thing as a spa treatment, dog-walker, artisinal cupcake shop economy.
Finally, it's worth noting that the official inflation number is also a complete joke. Like the unemployment number it is equally result-driven - based on all kinds of caveats so as calculated it reflects the costs of nobody. Any US consumer knows that the costs of housing, transportation, and heathcare -- to name just a few components of a middle class life -- have skyrocketed at a pace that far exceeds the official inflation rate.
16
Our current federal tax structure does little or nothing to encourage investment in people. Companies are sitting on piles of cash but we are not seeing much in the way of wage growth. We are moving towards being a de facto oligarchy and our labor status reflects this.
127
De facto? We are already an oligarchy. Period, full stop.
38
@Clio Sadly, Clio, you might be right. Until and unless people take to the streets like happened in the 60's.
4
@Frank
Hiring is expensive. Employees get sick, get pregnant, need vacations, need to be trained, make harassment allegations, etc. There is no control on their cost, and one bad hire can sink a company. If you were a business owner, would you hire or contract out?
11
The usual “It’s Obama’s economy” (the good part) and “It’s not as good as it looks” (Trump’s economy). We then get the opinion of the Business Roundtable, which churns out propaganda for the global economy as the savior of mankind. Supposedly they believe companies should care more about workers than shareholders. But the global companies they represent still have sweatshops in Third World countries and source out American jobs. Trump has at least put the brakes on that with his tariffs but you won’t find that mentioned in this article because the Business Roundtable and the Democrats are against tariffs. To them globalism not America come first.
5
These articles, persistently written in the Times - have two significant problems. First, they're not true. As a career management consultant of many years, I've learned from clients and graduate business school students that it's not a matter of the period of unemployment self-perpetuating. The real issue is how the job seeker presents - pitching and branding their skill sets and experiences. I've almost never encountered, in several decades of advising, a client who can't get past the possible negative perceptions. Great search technique, plus consistency and discipline, will trump the fallacious perceptions that a period of unemployment is somehow stigmatizing. (It's not.)
The second, more serious, issue is that these articles reinforce the negative perception - and discourage job seekers. Times - stop it. Talk with people in my profession and learn about what invariably will work successfully. Your articles on this topic are destructive.
11
@Ellis Where do I start? Your clients have MBAs? That's not who this article is addressing. BTW I'm an MBA (Michigan even), CPA, former CFO, and I can confirm that it gets harder to find work with age.
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Do you work with folks over age 40? I see educated personable experienced friends struggle as cos don’t want to hire them. When did 50 become elderly? It’s sad and ties back to larger economical concerns. Most of us are 1 lay-off away from having no healthcare.
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@Ellis OK Ellis, if you have the answer, stop telling the Times and begin actually doing something that will help. Believe me, I know how hard it can be, was laid off from a job where my performance was consistently praised by a customer who had been a big thorn in the company's side, and found my exact job being advertised by them for a long time. I consistently applied for the job and was turned down. I considered going after them for age discrimination but spent my time building a small business which by luck has proven to be able to keep me out of the poor house.
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Over 50? Good luck with that. Companies think new hires will be there 20 years, so want someone 26 to 40, max. Of course younger workers will jump at anything that looks better and leave while older workers will stay long term.
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@Jeff : Crazy irony indeed. Most Millennial I know stay at a job for 1--3 years before moving on. My own mom, born at the end of WWII, had left a decent secretarial job in her mid 40s due to health problems. She had that awful "gap". When her medical problems were finally resolved, she temped for a long time.
Finally, pushing 50, she got a job interview for a long-term secretarial job with benefits. They asked her why they should hire her, and she said this:
"I'm good at what I do. And I'm older, so I'm done raising my family. I don't need to take time off of work to care for sick kids. I'm already immune to every cold that goes around. I'm not looking to move up the career ladder. I just want a job I can stay in for 10+ years so I can collect my own pension and not just rely on my husband's."
She got the job. And after they hired her, they told her that they had trained so many younger women at the job, only to have them leave after 1--3 years. It was also true that the younger women missed a lot of work. They got sick more often. They had sick kids at home. They had to miss work for teacher in-service days.
My mom survived many re-orgs, which is pretty amazing for a secretary in the 1990s. She finally got laid off in the early 2000s, 13 years after she started her job, because they just didn't use secretaries any more.
22
@Jeff People also don't hire people who are older (and, thus, have more experience) because that experience means they'd have to pay more. Never mind that the younger workers will quit for other jobs and leave the employer in the lurch. It's all about the money. First, last and always.
10
We are in a race to the bottom. We need to turn this ship of state around.
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