Why are so many countries so incapable of providing people with a decent life? It isn't a lack of technology- that is everywhere. It isn't a lack of education- anyone can learn. Colonialism? Can't be that because it ended generations ago.
It seems like the people of these countries seem incapable of doing what is necessary, smaller families and pluralism/tolerance, to make their societies work.
Why on Earth would Western countries want to emulate these failed nations? Yet that is exactly what taking endless 'refugees' does.
Countries can be ruined because of over population. Once a nation reaches some saturation point of hopeless people it becomes impossible to fix things. Too many new people are born too quickly. These failed nations must deal with their problems on their own- instead of exporting their unneeded and unwanted surplus population.
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@Willt26
So easy to criticize when we are far away in our comfortable lives. We forget the foundation that this country was built on, people looking for better lives.
We used to commend those with the independent and adventurous spirit to go and seek new opportunities. From the countless admirable stories we have heard of the Irish, English, Germans, Italians and others who had fled the old world (for them, they left their "failed nations") to try to find a better life in America. They left everything they had and their safety was not guaranteed. Same applies to those Americans who went westward in the search for a better life. They were just people trying to improve their lot in life.
We can talk about the problems at the government and society level, but please lets not forget the individuals who lost their lives by simply doing what is human nature, trying to improve their lives. These people who lost their lives knew they would likely be outcasts in the societies they emigrated to. But what was their alternative? Go back to farming earning a pittance of wages and see the cycle repeated with the next generation? Or take the risk and hope for the best? For those of us in the U.S., we descended from those who chose the latter option. I truly sympathize with those who tried the same and lost their lives.
159
Poor countries may not be able to keep up with more advanced nations. For example, the Germans among few other countries rule the car industry - any atempt by other poor countries to outpace Germany in this field is hopeless. Thus the money keeps flowing to Germany. Same as the investment capital flows into Switzerland. Same as the IPhone revenues flow to US, more precisely California. What do you want to build in Afgahnistan if theres not even that much arable land?
The number of jobs needed is limited. However, resources may be enough for everyone to have a pretty house or at least appartment given that they are used more efficiently and financial gains are fairly shared among the world population. Think of all the money "destroyed" by war. That money could have been used to create infrastructure anywhere ib the world.
15
I agree, I come from Vietnam but live in the West now and my family was even poorer than some of these but doing it illegally defying all regulations was never in question for me, and in order to have built a life here in the West, I had to work sooooooo hard, also at home in Vietnam not only in Europe, and learn so much (which cost a lot of energy), and not jumping on a truck with a fake passport.
30
Between 1950 and 2016, despite losses in wars with France and the US, Vietnam's population increased from 24.8 MM to 94.6 MM.
OF COURSE things are bad there.
I know it sounds heartless, and even Trumpian, but they created this problem themselves, and it isn't fair for them to try to stick the rest of us with the bill.
22
@Green Tea ,
These people did not go there to ask for handouts, they went there to work!
47
@PHL,
And by doing so they undercut the wages of citizens. And they take vital resources (housing, a job, etc). I am continually amazed that the far left, which claims it cares about the working class, sits there and values foreigners more than the most needy and desperate citizens.
They want cheap slave labor- and poor and working class citizens won't be slaves.
6
@Green Tea can you honestly say that if you and your family were desperate, you wouldn’t do this?
10
I thought only the Chinese people is willing to take a big chance to escape from the communist dictatorship. People in Vietnam after so many years of war with America and why they are still wanted to leave their own country? Poor living condition shouldn't be the only reason for anyone to leave their motherland. They should work hard and trying to build a better life for everybody. Sorry to read this tragic news.
6
@Tysons2019 well 100 million Chinese leave the country every year, and 100 million Chinese come back every year too. That was 2015 stats. I don't know where your "big chance" is coming from.
6
@Tysons2019
You do not understand poverty but look around you in D.C. and see how desperate people live. If you need ideological comfort Vietnam is a Communist country, but Central America is not – why are they lining up at the boarder?
9
Developing nations use illegal immigration as a safety valve in a sense. They also receive benefits when immigrants send home remittances. In some countries this can total billions of dollars over time. Therefore, in some perverse sense they have an incentive to look the other way. It's also telling that these poor people passed through several nations in most cases, working and overstaying visas. The entire immigration system appears to be broken. The desire to migrate is only going to increase as climate change accelerates. If we think it is ugly now, I suspect in 5-10 years it could cause global conflict.
6
I can't help but think that the home that is show in the article looks magnificent with beautiful expensive furniture. It seems good enough for a nice life to me. Are these young Vietnamese looking for a rich lifestyle where they think life is more modern and not so rural. Do they have a dream of becoming rich. The migrants that come to the US from Mexico and South America usually look extremely poor in every way imaginable. They wouldn't leave their countries if they felt safe and they had enough food and a home.
6
@Ann, it's an altar, not ordinary furniture.
11
@Daisy Many people have altars, that are just a counter with a nice embroidered cloth and some candles and pictures of holy people. They don't have this kind of furniture, and they certainly don't have royal chairs to go with the altar. I read one girl paid $40,000 to get smuggled. Why can't she buy a home in Vietnam for 40,000. You could live in Mexico I think for 30 years on $40,000. Things don't add up to me for these young people paying these fortunes to leave Vietnam.
4
This is all just starting. Too many people being born, too much misgovernment. the deteriorating climate, and what's by now chronic compassion fatigue.
15
I would like to ask the governments of many developing nations from which people emigrate illegally, what exactly they are doing to prevent what is criminal behaviour by their own citizens and which too often ends in tragedy. Are they widely and thoroughly informed by their governments of the foolishness and criminal illegality of paying human traffickers a king’s ransom thus impoverishing themselves even further? Or are these governments themselves dabbling in human trafficking, exporting surplus uncontrollable young populations and enjoying the increase in GDP when their emigrating populations start transferring money back home? We in the western countries on the receiving end of this ghastly human trafficking chain, have access to all the media and information, but what sort of information reaches the villagers in these countries?
8
Politicians in America should pay close attention. Poverty drives people to take risks and to migrate to perceived opportunities. In the U.S. poverty drives people across the nation to leave homes in search of a better future. It also drives people from South America to the U.S. border. The stock market says our economy is booming but the migration of Americans says we have pockets of poverty and despair. Florida is a prime example of great poverty and unemployment adjacent to untold wealth. From Appalachia to the tent cities of California people are leaving. The Trump administration is supposed to be negotiating a better trade agreement with China and other nations. Yet poverty remains while jobs keep leaving. In the Mideast tens of thousands if not millions also live in refugee camps without access to any of the norms of a civilized society. There may be a brighter future for Vietnamese in Britain. Communism and corruption by officials does not end the misery of futures lost to poverty and unemployment. But as more and more peoples around the world migrate to escape the poverty and corruption more and more will die on their way. The way to end these migration deaths countries of these escaping nationals need to look deep inside at their economic and political policies. Those are the real cause of these tragedies.
7
@Jack Frost I was recently downtown noticing a gigantic abandoned factory, probably one mile long, with thousands of vacant parking spaces. It was formerly Combustion Engineering, then Alsthom where thousands of workers had long careers. Investors are likely to tear this down, put up some buildings for purposes that are already in surplus, that is, if they can get the right subsidies from our government. One would think a factory of this size could be put to use to displace factory work in China. Its markets that govern, which means whatever, where maybe 50% earn around $12/hr.
2
This article is a vivid reminder of why people leave their families and their countries...,always for a better life. My heart cries when I hear or read the nastiness if anyone who fails to understand this.
24
Everyone understands what these people want. Some people disagree with the idea that it is their problem. You think anyone in Vietnam cares about you?
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@Angeli
plenty of nastiness flying around because of ignorance to the fact that this country built itself with immigrants. some people just don't get it, 45 included.
11
I am very sad for the 39 victims and their families. I hope something good would come out of this tragedy, such as crackdown on human trafficking. I think the core of the problem is the indifference of the VN government to the poor Vietnamese people. That point is clearly shown by this sad event.
So far, there are no responses from the VN government except saying the investigation is going on:
• No offer of condelences to the families of the victims
• No condemnation of the bad guys
• No promise of trying to find and punish the bads guys
• Most importantly, no promise to make life of the poor people better, so that nobody has to risk his/her life like that
31
@Viet - Good point. It seems similar to the governments of Central America and Mexico which seem indifferent to their own impoverished citizens who migrate illegally to the United States, often in dangerous conditions like this.
5
Just because a country is doing economically well does not mean the population is getting any of that prosperity, usually the vast majority of the money is in the pockets of a few politicians and CEOs. Eat the rich, they are the cancer of any country.
23
I wonder why these people do not remain in France and apply for Asylum in France. In a few years they will be eligible for European Nationality and be free to move legally to the UK.
According to international law they should apply for Asylum in the first safe country they enter.
Of course unless they are economic immigrants . UK only sends back 46% of the people caught entering the UK.
6
To stay and work in France legally, the job centre will first oblige you to a gruelling 400-600 hours of French language tuition, unless you already speak it (mostly, illegal migrants do not). Once you find an entry-level job at minimal salary, you stay there, working your way up a figurative ladder is rarely an option as there are more qualified people to do those jobs. In France you also require a valid ID or passport to open a bank account, or put your child in school, or see a doctor, use the health service etc. Impossible to rent a tiny studio without a valid ID.
7
@Eric That's not so simple. Just because you apply for asylum in France, it doesn't mean that your application will be accepted.
And even if it is accepted, you have to legally live and work in France for many years (in be fluent in French of course) before you can apply for the French citizenship.
And even if you become a French citizen, your ability to move to the UK will be seriously reduced by the upcoming Brexit.
And by the way, there is no such thing as a "European Nationality", that simply doesn't exist. Europe is not a country.
3
The West, mainly the U.S., facilitated this end. We need a lot of highly motivated immigrants, who do not have to risk their lives, or break the law. Let them come. Let the immigrants in--deport the tRump and Republicans.
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Human trafficking is a tragedy and a crime. They were breaking the law.
9
@Yellow Bird Hi, yes, legality and morality don't necessarily correlate.
11
“How can a warm man understand how a cold man feels”
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My heart is breaking for these families.
13
The best way to prevent this from happening again is to stop those people from getting on the truck in the first place. In order to do that, they must be sure that there is no better future waiting for them in the developed world. Rich countries must enforce their labor and immigration laws with vigor, no matter the cost to oligarchs. This will also expand opportunities and raise wages for the first-world's poor, who cannot compete with illegal immigrants.
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@KM -- Lovely. I wish I had you for a neighbor.
7
@ChesBay You should, I'm an excellent neighbor. I also like my policies to be made on rational grounds, not empty rhetoric about empathy and compassion that ignores your actual neighbors in favor of people from the other side of the world.
8
I am very sad for the people losing their lives. I can't help but wonder what Vietnam would be like if the war had turned out differently. Would Vietnam be more similar to Japan or Thailand?
11
So terribly sad and a never ending story of people hoping for better "on the other side of the fence/border", so they are willing to take the ultimate gamble.
I wonder how many people died in ships crossing to the US, South America, Australia and New Zealand when they were the overflow destinations for Europeans. How many of them, once arrived, then died of poverty, exploitation or illness in the "Eldorado" they had dreamed of.
The quest for better doesn't come with guarantees and that is a sad reality.
Many hear the sirens calling (dangerous creatures, who lured with enchanting music to shipwreck on the rocky coast), few really succeed.
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@Si Seulement Voltaire
Tons of people succeed. Practically everyone in America is a descendant of them. People from poor countries aren’t stupid or irrational. They know the risks of immigration, and decide that they are better off taking the risks rather than staying at home.
14
If the richer countries enforced better their laws against working illegally, which it doubtless must be for an illegal immigrant, would far fewer of these dangerous and tragic voyages occur?
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@Alex Marshall
Correct.
Since Australia made their strict immigration laws and policies known across Asia, there have been extremely few "boat people" who have died at sea. Before there were hundreds.
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@Alex Marshall
The tragedy is that so many people are poor and desperate enough to voluntarily undertake these voyages, not the voyages themselves.
8
@HO They reach France which is a good country to live in and work in but they move on as they think the grass is greener in the UK.
Some even take employment in France fail to register for Asylum. If they did in a few years they would gain French nationality and be free to move to the UK.
6
A few years ago while on a overnight boat trip in scenic Ha Long Bay in Hanoi, our well spoken and handsome tour guide at one point whipped out his phone and showed pictures of his cute daughter accompanied by the gut wrenching story of the difficulties to survive within such a corrupt system. And how he wished someone could help bring her to America or Europe.The captivated audience was a small group of western and sympathetic tourists who no doubt did the least they could to alleviate their guilt by leaving him with a substantial tip. Until then the experience was perfect in every way, the staff was professional and cordial, and the spirit was one of generosity.
Maybe he did us a favor by piercing the tourist bubble and offered a glimpse of the reality on the ground? Or could this be a scheme to get more tips and the girl in the picture wasn't even his daughter?
No matter. A country that took away its citizen's pride and dignity is a country in trouble. Vietnamese people is known for their hardworking and resilience yet it's impossible to cross the street in Hanoi because no one obeys the traffic light. A sea of on going traffic of motorcycles and cars is a scene of chaotic order, a legal lawlessness.
A reflection of a corrupt and incompetent government? Seems that way.
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@Anxious it is a scam. That man (and perhaps many more like him) pulled that same trick to get sympathy from Western tourists who have cash in hands. My friend felt so sorry for that man he begged to go to his house so he could give the poor girl some money. When we got to his house to give the girl some money. We met an older teenage girl he said now she grew up. Then we were both stunt by the home theater system he had. We knew something about sound systems so we could tell that it's the high end system. Not many could afford that in the US, let alone in a country like Vietnam. We both looked at each other feeling like a pair of fools.
6
This is the great tragedy of the advances in global communication and the ease of global travel. People who would have once lived their lives in poverty now can risk it and chase higher incomes by entering the underground economies of more advanced countries. These are usually the ones who have little to lose: young men who would otherwise end working the family plot or doing menial work in the city for very little income.
Those of us who live in advanced economies will feel guilty and ashamed to see this tragedy. But there's nothing we can do about it.
5
Over population is a big problem that appears to be an easy fix in Vietnam since there's a working form of government. Education is another key to improving a country and people's lives. That, too, doesn't appear to be an insurmountable issue. People can learn in outside classrooms or classroom tents. It would be interesting to know why the VN government ignores certain populations of their people.
17
The problem is that this world was not made for billions of us to live on this tiny planet.
75 percent of the insects are gone. Almost all large animals, including elephants and rhinos, are on the verge of extinction from human impacts. Whales are starving because they have nothing to eat because of mass overfishing. The Japanese slaughter high sentient and intelligent dolphins by the thousands every year to stop them from eating fish. We've killed off a large percentage of the sharks because Asians want shark fin soup. The world is filled with agricultural fields as we burn down the Amazon, turn Asia into a giant rice paddy interspersed with factory towns. Colonizers eradicated the Great Plains and turned it into a corporate farm and killed off most of its Native Peoples. Russian produces nothing but oil and bombs. America produces nothing but worker drones, tech bros and oligarchs. Three billions birds have disappeared from North America. Giant cyclones and hurricanes are wiping people off the coasts of the world. California catches on fire every year. The Middle East and North Africa has dried up, provoking fear, war and terrorism. Everyone wants a car, TV, and a fridge. And people are flooding from all over the world to Europe and North America away from the catastrophe of our own making in shipping containers, leaky boats or by foot.
Humans did all of this because of greed, hubris, stupidity, short-sightedness and a lack of respect for all living things.
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... if you think the world is an exact copy of your daily newspaper.
As a species, no doubt, we are at a very early (savage) stage of our evolution.
7
Why do we as a human race allow our world to be so corrupt ? Why do we allow and accept human suffering ?, we should be exploring the universe by now , not fighting each other and let a few enjoy all.
@Bill Lombard
Dear Mr. Lombard,
My simple comment is this: why do governments who say they are truly socialist in reality are just governed by elite corrupt people who are not democratic and do not give their people freedoms. They seem to enjoy poser so much they will do anything to keep it. At least Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland have got democratic socialism right.
5
This is sad beyond words. I hope we could say this is rare. Not only is it not rare but it will become more common as the effects of climate change become more obvious. With income inequality and the destruction of the planet, poor people around the world have nowhere to go. Desperate people do desperate things.
32
I went on a trip to Vietnam about 10 years ago. An author I had read, about the economic investment in Vietnam, was very worried about the environmental degradation sure to come along with the arrival of companies like Intel. Clearly, the government has not been able or willing to spread the improvements to rural areas. I took a photograph of a trinkets vendor sitting on the curb in what used to be known as Saigon. His head was down, clearly exhausted at the end of the darkening day while the hustle and bustle of the street crowded with motorcycles whizzing by reflected the stark contrast between him and the city people.
The tragedy of becoming mired in debt and having to trust people who are essentially criminals will not end unless countries took it upon themselves to allow work permits for jobs that seem to be waiting for the migrants.
4
So incredibly sad -- kudos to the Times to following up on this story. I have worked with immigrants at my hotel job. Its hard to think of something like this occurring to them.
23
And where are the oligarchs now? What will the American billionaires be doing today? Will they read stories like this and do something?
17
What are they supposed to do? There are over 95 million people in Vietnam. We could give them $100 billion a year and it would be less than $3 per day per person.
If you make more than $3 per day what are you doing to help? Because you are rich compared to these people. What are you going to do?
15