Leader’s Death Will Damage ISIS, but Not Destroy It

Sometime very soon an American will be kidnapped and killed in retaliation for Baghdadi's death. Has Trump's preening made things worse? His need to describe this death in lurid terms can only provoke more and worse actions.

The killing of al-Baghdadi, while operationally impressive, is useless politically, undercuts the "logic" of Trump's shameful abandonment of the Kurds, and treasonously cedes "great power" prerogatives in the region, immediately to Russia and Turkey, and secondarily to Iran and Syria -- not to mention paving the way for resurgence of a crippled ISIS as a territorial power Trump and the RPBs continue to promote the blatantly false view that ISIS or al-Qaeda etc are "organizations" -- whose primary aim is carrying out terrorist actions and / or establishing right-wing religious polities They are not They are MOVEMENTS, concerned first and foremost with the spread of specific IDEAS As part of that propagation, they MAY engage in terrorist acts or establishing territorial states But those activities are NOT the crucial part of their being or mission What's essential is the establishment of communities built around very specific IDEOLOGICAL and POLITICAL goals These communities MAY engage in what some call "terror", or attempt to establish land-based strongholds, but these are only MEANS of furthering those IDEOLOGICAL and POLITICAL goals Given this, the killing of Baghdadi, like Osama in 2011, WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO STOP THE CONTINUATION OR PROLIFERATION of these IDEAS Indeed, it is more likely to STRENGTHEN them Given the mistaken assumptions of US leadership, it is no surprise Islamist groups continue to thrive and expand beyond their wildest dreams

This is a battle of ideologies. You can't fight ideologies only with weapons. You need to use convincing ideologies to win them over.

We thank the Kurds who provided the intelligence to rid us of this scourge on humanity. Given Trump's betrayal of the Kurds we cannot expect this intelligence again.

Luckily for ISIS Trump's kowtow to Erdogan created a chaotic situation in NE Syria and at least 750 ISIS prisoners have escaped from SDF prison camps. It doesn't matter who the leader is if you don't have troops. Thanks to the President, the new leader has 750 more warriors to create chaos with. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/13/kurds-say-785-isis-affiliates-have-escaped-camp-after-turkish-shelling

This Baghdadi killing illustrates the necessity of impeaching and removing this man. Even in victory, he shames this nation. In fact, he shames this nation on both major and minor actions. This means that the inevitable result is a black eye each and every time for the U.S. That should be unacceptable to every American.

Baghdadi was blown into oblivion. So there is no proof to confirm he died. Why do I get the nagging feeling that Trump's announcement was a diversion from the impeachment proceedings Even if it Baghdadi died, the horse has left the barn. Closing the barn doors after the fact is futile.

What does the President have against dogs? One got hurt, as Trump pointed out, in the operation and yet the President, in his continuing effort to take America to the dogs, says Al Bagdadi died like a dog. No, he died like the mass murderer he was, taking three children with him. I would dissent from the common wisdom that ISIS isn't really hurt by his death, because ISIS decentralized. The same thing was said about Bin Laden but in fact Bin Laden's death deprived Al Qaeda of its myth of invincibility, a potent recruiting tool. The same thing will happen to ISIS. What is most troubling is that the President, knowing we were intending to stage a raid, jeopardized the raid and the soldiers carrying it out by betraying the Kurds. The fact Trump downplayed Kurdish help in favor of Russia and, lord help us, the ethnic cleansing Turks was meant to minimize his betrayal.

How many millions were spent on killing this bearded guy?

IS and it's followers fervently believe they are the chosen ones who will fulfill Islamic prophesy from the Qur'an. It foretells a Caliphate in what is now northern Syria that will defeat the infidels at the great battle of Dabiq, bring on the second coming of the Mahdi and Armageddon. Ok, it sounds cockamamie, but if you want the full story behind the ideology, read this piece: "What ISIS Really Wants" from the Atlantic... https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

I'm pretty sure the popular press was gushing over Obama when Bin Laden was killed, but not sensing anything positive about the Trump administration here.

Trump's childish and outrageous joking about taking Al Baghdadi out (while implying it was all Obama's fault) at the police chief event begs ISIS to hit back, And mocking him "he cried and whimpered and was scared to death" editorial is like a barker at a side show, And Trump might realize this operation was long in the making and was not the result of HIS skills or awareness,\ Fool as president,

Is it OK if I don't take delight in the death of al-Baghdadi? I understand completely that ISIS is horrible, that he was a terrorist and terrible human being and that the world is a much better place without him. I sympathize completely with his victims and their families, but must I celebrate the killing of another human being? Reading and hearing the news, I feel a little guilty that I don't and feel my energy would be best directed elsewhere. Just asking.

Trump is far more damaging to American life than Al Baghdadi could ever had hoped to be.

Turkey won't be happy with their Man in Syria bring killed.

ISIS prospers because it offers a certain response to the pain of Muslims everywhere, who feel that the West sponsors dictatorships to rule over them, sanctions to impoverish them, and bombs to kill them. On top of all that, the West silences their voice. My suggestion is that, while remaining militarily vigilant, we as a culture should open our lines of communication so as to hear and discuss the Muslim point of view.

Alas it is all a big show folks... Trump needed something to change the news cycle and he got it. He's going to use it like there is no tomorrow... I just wonder if Kim & the Turkish strongman will suffer the same fate... To me, this was low hanging fruit. If it was the ISIS leader at all...

If Trump knew about the operation why was he playing golf that day? Didn't leave the country club until the operation was under way. Obama watched the bin Laden operation in real time with his Secretary of State in attendance!

The Isis leader de hour was killed. Blather rinse repeat.

The death of the most barbaric religious zealot is good. The deep State deserves the credit and the President, the glory. But ‘war victories’ have a short half-life. Churchill, Indira Gandhi and George Herbert Walker Bush learnt it the hard way. Islamic Middle East is an island of medieval theocracy amidst the neo-mercantile 'transactional' capitalist world order. Its highest goals are the ideologies and jurisprudence of Seventh Century C.E.! When they fail, they go forever ‘purer’ religion and shockingly insane violence! Failure of Wahabism to solve 20th century problems led to Al Qaeda --- whose failure led to ISIS! Its demise would be avenged by a more radical theology! U.S., Europe, China, Russia, Israel (?India too!) would criticize each other for ‘excessive reaction’ by the others and quietly cooperate with each other to scotch the new terrorist offshoots!

I thought ISIS was defeated. That's what they keep telling us in Washington until they have to hunt down another guy just in time for elections.

ISIS is a JV team.

If we could end our addiction to oil we wouldn’t have any economic reason to be there, and we could use our strength for humanitarian causes. And if we drive an alternate to oil - we would become economically more powerful. It’s sad that politicians don’t see that. We should massively invest in alternatives, solar, wind, battery, smart grid, storage, fusion etc.

"Despite repeated American-led offensives and the dropping of the United States’ largest conventional bomb in 2017, the group has attracted more than 2,000 recruits." If we are unable to acknowledge cause/effect relationship between military action and recruitment for terrorist/radical organizations, we have truly learned nothing in almost two decades. Or the previous quarter-century, via the Soviets. Or the decade before that, via American action in Vietnam.

If ISIS learned anything after Bin Laden was killed, it was to have a plethora of individuals in the wings, ready and able to pick up the reins and continue with their reign of terror without skipping a beat. Such will be the case with the death of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. The fact that this monster used three of his own children for potential shields against members of the Delta Force and in the end, decided to blow himself up AND those children, that merely signifies to the world that his life and the lives of his children are expendable and meaningless. The mindset of this destructive Islamic State has always been different than other enemies the U.S. has engaged in previously. They will never retreat nor surrender. All they know is violence and hatred of the West. If Trump assumes that by withdrawing the U.S. military presence in the Middle East will spare or save us from harm or danger, then he is more misguided and delusional than previously imagined. The fact that the Delta Force were able to penetrate and accomplish their mission, especially without losing a member of their team, only goes to show how vital and crucial their presence was and is the Middle East. The Islamic State may incur setbacks, but when they rebound, they will rebound with a vengeance. The last place our troops need to be is at home.

Now that the internet has allowed all sorts of extremist groups and their warped ideology to immediately interact and communicate with each other, the days of relying on someone like Osama Bin Laden and al-Baghdadi as some sort of spiritual leader to guide and encourage them is a ship that has long sailed. All of these groups are individual small cells that operate and act pretty much on their own done intentionally to minimize the opportunity to monitor them. They don't need encouragement. The real damage has been done in Syria whereby captured ISIS soldiers will be running free and be able to indulge in considerably more mayhem, all thanks to "The Tweetster"!

If the U.S. (not just Trump but politicians of both parties) were truly serious about eliminating ISIS, it would embrace Iran which gave it such invaluable assistance to defeat the Taleban in November/December 2003, and whose troops joined Kurdish ground troops to defeat the so called Caliphate in Syria earlier this year. But no, a conspiracy of Neocons, Zionists and Saudi-Wahhabi supporters are doing everything within their power to stymie a U.S.-Iran rapprochement, as they successfully did in 2003. A bit of history: 1. Iran's entire consulate In Mazar-e-Sharif was executed by the Taleban in 1998. (Bush claimed 3 years later that Iran was sheltering Al Qaeda). 2. Iran, India and Russia were the only countries to support the Northern Alliance that was fighting the Taleban throughout the Nineties. 3. Acc. to Special U.S. Envoy to Afghanistan, James Dobbins, the U.S.-backed Northern Alliance could never have defeated the Taleban in late 2003 without Iran's diplomatic and logistical assistance. 4. Iran's ground troops became invaluable, in 2018, in pushing ISIS back from their positions just 20 kilometres outside Baghdad. The Kurds were not involved. It was solely the Revolutionary Guards who put a spine in the back of the Iraqi army and saved Baghdad (including the Green Zone) from being overrun. So what are you waiting for? Hopefully some common sense. Peace!

Al Qaeda and ISIS were both fueled by Wahhabist Islamic fundamentalism and Middle Eastern oil. The Western world should transition to green energy and deprive this medieval brand of Islamism of its oil money. Of course, America's Gas Oil Petroleum party does the opposite and steps on the fossil fuel accelerator which helps sustain petro-dictatorships, petro-Islamism and environmental collapse. Solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, hydro and alternative energy development will help put these terrorists out of business. D to go forward; R to go backward over a fossil-fueled cliff.

Former President George W. Bush, never a great thinker, when asked what his chief mistakes as President had been, couldn't think of any offhand; but, upon reflection, realized his challenge to Al Quieda -- to "Bring It ON" -- after we invaded the Middle East, had, in fact been his biggest boneheaded move. One of which we're still realizing the horrific, still-snowballing affects, more than a decade later. Current president trump, with his telling the world ISIS's leader had died like a sniveling, whimpering terrified dog, has made, essentially, the same major mistake. Too bad our reality teevee president hadn't learned lots more from his teevee set. We'll likely be paying for his horrific mistakes for decades, too.

We killed the main tumor, but the metastases are all over the world. Interesting that the tumor's formation, or radicalization, occurred during the Iraq war. I wonder how many other "primaries" are out there as a result.

POTUS just put all of our troops and citizens in a real bad situation. Not the raid and death of Al Baghdadi but the language he used to describe the killing. He is not fit to be President of anything.

I'm confused. I thought the guy was already dead. I remember reading about it a couple years ago. From 2017: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4685292/ISIS-admits-leader-Abu-Bakr-al-Baghdadi-dead.html

The ture chaos theory of random political thugs doesn't produce but one every ten thousands years so -let's sit back and enjoy the good times

How does anyone celebrate Death. Obama was wrong in how bin Laden was killed and Trump is wrong here. Death Begets Death. America has Damaged, Destroyed, Annihilated. https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881 It's not ISIS more like IS US

Clearly the ISIS group of fighters hasn't realized Mr. Trump, dressed in his Red Cape, is coming to personally "utterly destroy them (believe me)"......with his unrealistic hyperbolic exaggeration, of course.

Asking the linear, unidimensional question about whether ridding a particular tagged “terrorist” group, whatever its actual or faux ideological underpinning will limit or even prevent its range of violent acts is both seductive as well as misleading. “Yes.” “No.” “ Maybe.” Seductive because these potential 3 types of answers transmit certitude when ever-present realities’ measurable and unmeasurable dimensions pose interacting uncertainties. Unpredictabilities. Randomness. Outliers as well as lack of total control notwithstanding one’s efforts. Timely or not. “Terrorism,” however defined and delineated, as process and outcomes, we are informed is (1) caused by, ( 2) associated with, and/OR, occurs/ doesn’t occur, and we know not WHY. Three semantic-choices, once again garbed in certitude. Based upon (relevant) data collection, (appropriately) analyzed from which useful, and usable, valid information is derived which is transmuted into types, levels and qualities of necessary understanding from which needed decisions, and their plans, are made. Phases of certitude. And while this secular-scientific belief system of “ evidence-informed” is enabled, a range of ongoing terrorisms can and do exist with their consequences to life, limb, psyches, etc. Along with another certitudenous reality. There is the known. The currently unknown because of gaps in needed technology, information and understandings. And there is/maybe the unknowable. Will ISIS continue in our enabled WE-THEY...?

Exactly. Unfortunately, ISIS will have another leader by today. They have been emboldened by their prisoners being out of prison, thanks to Donald J Trump!

Well, yeah. Until people stop literally believing in any backwards texts and thinking that blowing themselves and killing others in the process in the name of anything is rational, this will never stop.

If Trump cant resist bragging about it this will become a massive ISUS recruiting event similar to the prisoner torture photos in the Iraq war.

Does anyone think that there is a reasonable likelihood that Putin stage managed this for his puppet?

Trump doesn’t really know what those brave soldiers had to overcome to complete the operation given the fact that he withdrew the US troops even before the operation was concluded. Then in his absurdly long speech he thanked Russia, Turkey, Syria and, of course, his own geniality. The bone spur cadet knows no limits to his narcissism and ridiculousness.

It is scary to realize that the world's biggest military super power thinks of obliterating a guy and his children and rejoice about it with strange and vulgar delectation but is unable to analyze the political reasons that are in the causality .

well since trump has been in office isis hasn’t been as big of a factor as it once was. so not saying this won’t help but isis is pretty much done

Likewise, killing Osama Bin Laden did not end Al Qaeda. It was largely a symbolic killing, likewise, Al Baghdadi’s killing. Kudos to the Pentagon for proving that they can hunt down and kill bad guys, but seriously, what if anything can the Pentagon do to end terrorism, preferably before it even starts? If the last 18 years have proved anything, it Is that any military is incapable of preventing terrorism, or even defeating terrorism in the long run. Even if ISIS were completely defeated, the Middle East is awash in terrorism. While we are killing lots of terrorists, terrorism flourishes, And, yet, we still believe that doing the same thing over and over again will work. It won’t. Our military cannot defeat terrorism.

ISIS may not be completely destroyed, but no longer will its caliphate occupy half of Syria, and its #1 and alleged #2 have been killed. Success in the war with ISIS will never be an-all-or nothing thing. It comes one battle at a time, and Trump certainly has several battle wins when it comes to ISIS. He said he would destroy ISIS and he is delivering.

Islamic State is rooted in Iraqi politics, created as a response to the illegal US invasion of Iraq and the subsequent US supported Shia-led government of Iraq. Its purpose was to create an anti Shia, Sunni Islam, State that could act as an alternative to a Shia Iraq. Al Qaeda challenged the state through chaos and destruction but never built anything. IS set out to correct that. Most of the IS leaders were former Baathists who wanted back control of Iraq.. .. secular Baathists who were kicked out of their jobs by the US consul Bremmer under Bush’s reign. Al Baghdadi was an academic when he was arrested by US military and placed in detention in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison where the US guards were sexually abusing, humiliating and torturing detainees. He was moved to Camp Bucca a few months before he was released without charge. Now we read that the US is bombing IS in Afghanistan to no real effect. What is it with this insane war on terror that causes the US to make things worse wherever it goes? The military approach has been an abject failure and still it receives craven unexamined support from most Americans. Wake up! It’s not working! It never has and never will. There is only one question worth asking in relation to countering terrorist organisations: What is the best way to prevent recruitment to them without damaging ourselves?... a question the US has still to ask, let alone answer. Spoiler. Today it’s brands that do the work of recruiting, not ideologies..

"Leader’s Death Will Damage ISIS, but Not Destroy It" Of course it won't. But that doesn't mean it isn't a pretty big deal.

Shouldn’t this be obvious by now? ISIS is an ideology. It is not a physical nation, state, or territory that can be conquered, nor is it a physical army that can be defeated or subjugated. This is a temporary setback for ISIS. We must now use this lull in the terrorism to consider other means of attack and defense rather than just storming bunkers and creating new martyrs to fuel the cause. If nothing else, this underlines the importance of cultivating new, strong allies, reinforcing and supporting the allies that we do have, and, in the process, not undermining our own intelligence agencies by word or action. We will be fighting this new kind of war until the end of days. Kill one leader, and 1,000 rise to take his place all over the globe.

Last night on the program “60 Minutes”, without irony, VP Biden called Trump an “idiot”, based on Trump’s performance and pronouncements. Also in last night’s press conference,Trump’s demeanor and announcement of al-Baghdadi’s death proved the point. Describing the raid as watching a TV movie and referring to Baghdadi as a “dog”, certainly diminished the bravery and skill of our military, not mention the CIA’s intelligence work that helped pinpoint ground zero. Trump also said that by throwing the Kurds under Turkish tanks was good for the Kurds since it motivated them to help the US Finally, he thanked the Russians, Turks, but completely ignored Congress. This man has to go, as does Lindsey Graham.

As long as the Saudis spread Wahabbi fundamentalism unchecked, there will be no end to the Al Qaedas, Islamic States and other groups to come.

The original Al Quida was organized like a traditional corporation with top-down command. It then morphed into a franchise type of organization. Isis however is based on the “gig” economy, the Uber of terrorist activities. Cutting its head off isn’t going to end it.

Seriously? Trump or anyone thinks no one else is already well groomed to lead ISIS and terrorism after Baghdadi’s death? Shows what a lack of understanding Trump has and his obvious lack of listening to any of his counsel. History lessons are something Donald Trump detests. Trump makes up his own history to his liking. No one with any credibility believes him, though.

I overheard my son yesterday talking with a classmate about the death of the leader of Isis. "It won't matter that they killed al-Baghdadi," he said, " Isis is an idea, and you can't kill ideas." My son is sixteen, and I think he better understands this moment than the president.

"its leaders may come and go, but the movement remains" The U.S. and other Western countries invent characters like al Baghdadi, Saddam Hussein, Moammar Qadaffi, etc. etc. to perpetuate the idea that these characters explain the problems in the world. No one, except a few journalists, buys this. We all know that the inability to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the Syrian civil war is what drives ISIS and other radical movements. So, keep telling us it's this bad guy or that bad guy, fine. Only the naive believe this. Please look deeper.

Tens of millions of Salafists and Wahabbis believe in the greater worth of Muslim men relative to everyone else. Other than generally avoiding violence they believe, like ISIS, in sharia and the primacy of Sunni Islam. The degree to which Muslims depart from Western values was made clear in 1990 when representatives from 45 Muslim nations signed the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam. This was a repudiation of the U.N.'s Universial Declaration of Human Rights that Eleanor Roosevelt worked so hard to create after WWII. There are major differences in Western and Islamic concepts of the Individual that provide fertile ground for terrorism against infidels, apostates, women, homosexuals, and everyone else not rigidly aligned with the terrorist's ideology. Al-Baghdadi's death will be inconsequential against this background and history. If anything, the West is losing this war. Countries such as Indonesia and Pakistan are becoming more fundamentalist and accommodating of jihadis.

Donald Trump does not have a clue. Not that that is any news. The next time I accompany my military veteran husband, a Vietnam vet, to the V.A. hospital I’ll think about Donald Trump pulling the troops out of Syria. It’s a big slap in the face to those who have served there. It’s a big slap in the face to all soldiers - they are now being led by a Commander in Chief who calls for retreat, who has washed away a relationship with our allies whose soldiers have been side-by-side with our soldiers. It’s a dishonor to our wounded warriors and to all who support them, families and healthcare workers who try to heal. Now, Donald Trump partners with Russia instead. Putin’s got Trump right where he wants him. But why oh why do the rest of us, especially those who serve everyday and beyond, have to be dragged into that dark hole of Donald Trump’s fancy?