The point of this article is to state that Trump and his Administration lied when they said that the Ukrainians never knew about the funding freeze and therefore there was no quid pro quo. In fact, the Ukrainians did learn of the freeze while Trump and company were still pressuring them to investigate the Bidens. Trump’s defense claiming no quid pro quo has collapsed.
12
Watch Servant of the People, the show that got Zelensky elected. He plays an ordinary guy, trying to be honest and do what is right is a corrupt political game. That's what got him elected, the promise of a president who might not be experienced, but would simply do his honest best for his country every single day. A foreign concept to Trump.
11
Trump has been playing these games his entire adult life. Problem for the him-- process gripes will not cut thru the cement quickly setting around his feet.
He won't walk away. 2 questions--How far will he take our country down before his own weight crushes him. More importantly- when will Trump loyalists recognize he is history...president no more. Are you going down with this ship?
5
I say we open an investigation to investigate the investigators who are doing the investigating.
And Trump perjured himself in a tweet about this, it was pointed out last night by Lawrence O'Donnell. Hilarious. And no one on his staff caught it. Comedy of errors.
3
This evidence will be critical but it is somewhat unsurprising as it has come to the point where we know that Trump is lying as soon as begins to speak. (His Syria "success" comments were unconscionable.)
The GOP are acting like thugs because their core values are simple; all for me and not much for everyone else. The GOP faithful also reserve the right, as pursuant to the "pursuit of happiness", are permitted to cheat, lie, steal and bribe their way to success with the knowledge that it is not a crime if I don't get caught.
What tears me up is that the majority of evangelicals have strapped their star to Trump's wagon and Trump's helpers have been slowly promoting an ideology that brands secularists as enemies of democracy because, as the pitch goes, only religious people have the spiritual and moral credence needed to run a good government. I think ISIS had a similar idea.
4
I would feel more comfortable about this if The Times weren't so vague about the source of this information. Perhaps I am missing something, but "according to interviews and documents obtained by The New York Times" sounds vague to me. Moreover, these sources are not identified in the rest of the story. I do see this: "...it was only on the sidelines of a Sept. 1 meeting between Mr. Zelensky and Vice President Mike Pence in Warsaw that the Ukrainians were directly informed by Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, that the aid would be dependent on Mr. Zelensky giving Mr. Trump something he wanted: an investigation into Burisma, the company that had employed Mr. Biden’s younger son, Hunter Biden." Maybe because it was "only on the sidelines" that no formal document can be identified as the source, but this still feels very squishy to me. I hope Mssrs. Kramer and Vogel can identify their sources, and soon.
Giuliani reads the papers. That's encouraging, right?
I have become increasingly convinced that our president doesn't lie, he just doesn't know the difference between truth and falsehood.
Why all the outrage? It was clear decades ago that Trump is a stinker. Why would we expect better behavior from him or his corrupt toadies?
Given the problem of getting a conviction in the senate I hope every eligible voter turns out at the polls in 2020 to exercise their franchise. Trump has earned a stinging rebuke for his abysmal performance as a leader.
7
Time to subpoena Mulvaney. But please make this one public.
1
Has there ever been anyone more unsuited to be a president?
Trump simply cannot tolerate any person or law that might resist or block childish whims.
4
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
We have arrived.
5
Sondland pulled Zelensky to the side during a break in the meeting with Pence and told him what the "deliverable" was. This gave Zelensky the opportunity to offer up this deliverable to Pence without Pence having to explicitly ask for it. Apparently Zelensky never brought it up.
For now, it is still plausible that Pence was insulated from the shadow policy. Hopefully further depositions will clear up Pence's role. But it does smell rotten any way you look at it.
3
Please stop calling it a debunked conspiracy theory, it’s a concerted effort to muddy the waters about the Russian attack on our country. Simple. Calling it a conspiracy theory makes it sound random. It’s not random in any way shape or form, yeah some tiny country under attack from Russia decided to hack the election of the us and get DT elected. They were “Amit” Hillary?!?
Or is getting Russia re admitted to G7 and oligarchs back to not being sanctioned which is the whole point of it. Please stop using the false “random” conspiracy theory language. We need to keep hearing who is benefiting from this story. If I tell the cops a green monster came down, changed into my body and robbed a bank w my face, when I’ve been caught robbing a bank...it’s not a random conspiracy theory.
I thought I'd revisit the Steele Dossier. Whatever one may think of that document —you don't have to read the pee-pee section— you will be reminded of how far back Trump's relationship with Russia goes, convinced that every move he makes serves Putin's wants, including a foothold in Syria.
As for yesterday's display of Republican disobedience, they are no longer trying to protect Trump, nor do they stand for any legitimate purpose. I believe they are now 100% looking after self interest, last ditch efforts to stall the impeachment vote, that day of reckoning, when each GOPer's measure will be taken, once and for all.
Whatever and whenever Ukrainians knew about the freeze on military aid, there is the telephone call in which Zelensky mentioned wanting to purchase defensive weapons, which was followed immediately by Trump's request for the favor of investigating Biden and Ukraine's alleged role in the 2016 election. Any reasonable person would interpret that as linking the willingness to sell the weapons to the desired investigations.
8
The real question is whether it will be the Democrats on Capitol Hill, the Republicans in the Senate, or Trump himself who will pull the ultimate block causing his Jenga Administration to collapse. It's tottering now and one or two pieces later, it will be in a heap.
18
Just a reminder; this election you will have ONLY 2 choices. Trump or not-Trump. Do not let your country down and waste your vote.
31
You’re right. He very well likely will not be removed from office before the election, because even if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, Trump’s Senate minions wouldn’t vote to convict after House Impeachment.
The suggestion that Ukraine was unaware of the funds being withheld is absurd.
17
Why does all this remind me of the way djt treats his subcontractors?
21
Yes I agree, in order to regain the trust of the world Pkv Games, it is very necessary to show that the congress is carrying out its role as a branch of government
2
Even though Zelensky started his career as a comedian, I think he is pretty savvy guy.
I hope he stands firm against Trump and further pressure.
10
@Pat
What, and jeopardize further aid? We all know how vindictive trump is, he spends half his miserable existence getting even to all the evil plots against him.
The poor baby, going through the ‘terrible twos’ at 73 years of age!
Trump on twitter in the last 24 hours lied about this fact again. More evidence for his perjury and US betrayal.
30
Trump betrayed the Ukrainians just like he betrayed the Kurds, and for similarly petty reasons. A portion of Ukraine has been occupied by Russia for the past 5-and-a-half years, so the issue of military aid is of no small consequence to the people living there. They are the poorest country in Europe and he was playing selfish games with their national security because he can't tell the difference between conspiracy and reality, or between right and wrong.
30
I happen to think Trump committed an impeachable offense here (but that he'll never be impeached for it because most Americans will conclude, incorrectly but predictably, that the "Ukraine Incident" is not different from the debunked "collusion" allegations.
Even so, I'm surprised and disappointed that the NYT insults the intelligence of Americans by suggesting that this "revelation" matters. It doesn't. Clearly the Ukrainians didn't know about that aid freeze when Trump talked with the Ukrainian president on July 25. Just as clearly, the Ukrainians found out about the aid freeze some time after that July 25 call. What's the difference whether the Ukrainians learned of the aid freeze on July 26 or August 15, or whenever? All that matters is that the Ukrainians became aware of the aid freeze before it was lifted and before the Ukrainians promised to investigate Biden. Trump may well have claimed the incorrect "awareness date," but does it matter?
3
The timing of the “quo” need not coincide with the “quid” in order to be just that—a quid-pro-quo. All of these moves you see Trump making are from a page torn from any self-respecting organized crime operation’s handbook (actually, he owns the whole handbook; even wrote it himself).
9
Folks, please remember that in the end, this is simple.
1. Trump is a crook, who’s always been a crook. He also ain’t too bright.
2. Republicans who ain’t stupid support him, because a) they’re scared not to, and b) they figure they’ll get stuff.
3. Bigots support Trump, because they’re scared they lose the crumbs they’ve been thrown.
4. Putin and a too-long chain support Trump because they know when they’ve got a big one on the line.
5. Charles Sykes was right: too many Americans have fallen back on their fear, hatred, ressentiment, nihilism.
6. The fear, hatred, etc. is there because wind is changing, because big changes gonna come.
Oh, special bonus: we relax a little and stop squabbling quite so much, this fool’s toast. Because this country is a better country than the one I grew up in, and these yahoos are yahoos.
21
Treason, not as narrowly defined by our Supreme Court but as understood by our framers, was committed by our Traitor-in-chief. Bribery and Extortion, as legally defined, was clearly committed by our Liar-in-chief. And High Crimes and Misdemeanors have beyond reasonable doubt been committed by our Gaslighter-in-chief. The crimes exceed those committed by Nixon and go to the heart or what our founding fathers designed the extraordinary remedy of Impeachment for.
15
Why do Republicans always feel the need to game the system, disenfranchise others they feel are in their way to gaining power and cheat at almost every turn when it comes to winning elections?
24
Brain damaged, I suspect. They can’t help be terrible.
3
A mob of frat-boy Republican Congressional thugs storm a secure. committee meeting and violate securolity laws to disrupt witness testimony. And these are heroes? They didn't even clean up after themselves. What utter louts. They clearly have no more legitimage defense arguments for Trump's crimes, so they pull a stupid stunt like this. How mature. This is what you are paying taxes for, Republican voters. Aren't you proud?
26
Cool. So when might we expect testimony from Senators Ron Johnson and Chris Murphy?
4
This is perfect. Trump tweets a new defense line in the morning and by COB the new excuse is thoroughly debunked. After the Syria Op Ed, did we just see McConnell back the bus up and run Trump over a second time today when he denied talking to Trump about the Ukraine call?
4
The timing or Ukraine’s knowledge makes no difference: Trump held up needed aid to Ukraine for personal political gain. That is an established fact. He has admitted this fact. It is objective reality. It is like the sun rising in the East. There is no denying this fact. Why are we still talking?
20
So at the time of the call between Trump and the Ukrainian President Zelensky did NOT know the aid was frozen.
The Ukrainians learned the aid was frozen about two weeks later. They did not announce an investigation.
The aid was then unfrozen anyway.
I look forward to having this explained to me by my condescending betters.
4
@Buster Dee
Alright, I'll give it a shot.
The headline of the article that you are commenting on reads:
"Ukraine Knew of Aid Freeze by Early August, Undermining Trump Defense
Top officials were told in early August about the delay of $391 million in security assistance, undercutting a chief argument President Trump has used to deny any quid pro quo."
13
Would this be the betters who can, and do, read?
Then I agree with your male anxiety: you have no idea what you’re talking about, and are afraid to go learn.
7
@Buster Dee
You are incorrect. President Zelenskyy knows that there is issue with the aid. Quid pro quo is not the issue here. It is the “collusion” equivalent term that Trump & co wanted to advance and get around the facts. In this case, it is pure extortion, and that is the issue. If you want to argue on quid pro quo, here it is
1. President Zelenskyy asked for missiles, Trump followed up with a favor though.
2. Both the Call with Trump and white house meeting were made conditional on starting an investigation on Bidens. Read Taylor’s opening statement
3. The timing of aid freeze is already known based on whistle blowers’ accounts. Taylor didn’t know that yet until later. Giuliani already informed that to Ukraine, so did Pence. If you look at July 25th call, President Zelenskyy is asking for defense cooperation and missiles. If the aid has already been made available to them, he wouldn’t be asking Trump, Pence, Sondland et.al. over and over. So, President Zelenskyy knows about the stalemate and is willing to make a public announcement of Burisma investigation as mentioned in Taylor’s opening statement.
4. If there is no Quid Pro Quo, Trump should release the transcript of the call verbatim, rather than the sanitized version.
5. Given the claim that there is nothing to see here, Giuliani, Pence and Trump should testify in front the committees as they claim to be innocent. That way, they can clear the air and it will be a successful conclusion!
6
Looking back to 2015 we can see the beginnings of the attack on democracy in Ukraine. The republican party platform was changed to eliminate any reference to continuing support for a free and democratic government in Ukraine. Not to be forgotten is that the party convention featured two characters, Flynn and Manafort. Manafort had serious ties to the Russian friendly then leader in Ukraine and Flynn had ties to Russia and Turkey
With all this no one in the Rep. leadership acted to put a stop to it. Why might that be?
10
This is an open and shut case that cannot be more black and white. Everyone can see this, hence the desperate charade we witnessed from House Republicans today at the SCIF hearings.
The question now is not whether Trump will be impeached - this is 100% certain. The question is: at what point will Mitch McConnell make the calculation that getting rid of Trump and settling for president Pence offers a lower probability of a Republican wipeout than sticking with Trump in 2020. Because now the Senate suddenly looks in play too.
12
Trump abhors taking briefs from the American military but loves chatting with Putin. I wonder what Putin finds interesting to talk about with the president. Trump's golf scores or the Ukraine and those pesky Kurds? Russia is (was) trying to undo self-government in the Ukraine and he wanted a free hand in Syria. I see Putin's condescending attitude toward the Ukraine reflected in Trump's brainwashed mind. Trump is the greatest security risk this country has ever known. The Republican party is parenting Trump, allowing the young sociopath to go on play dates, ignoring the probability of treason.
16
It will be very satisfying to see Trump, his family and his cronies go the way of Don Gotti and Al Capone.
12
Yet more evidence of Trump’s criminal and corrupt behavior, lying to the public about his illegal actions in Ukraine
7
Extortion. Blackmail. U. S. tax dollars as the carrot. God bless America
8
Donald Trump and his Republican Party are pathological liars.
15
‘President Pelosi’ has such a nice ring to it. Too bad we’re too corrupt to go there, because it’s legally supportable at this point.
18
We’re all trying to make sense of Trump’s extortion of the Ukraine. What’s amazing to me is that after nearly getting away with stealing the presidency thanks to Russia, Trump was emboldened to commit an even more obvious crime. I find it revealing that Trump felt so insecure about winning re-election that he resorted to dishonesty. He knows he is a liar and he doesn’t trust his own ability to rig the election with bombast and calumny. I was always insecure throughout my 30-year career as a professor, but I never had to cheat. Thank God for those in government who stand up for truth.
10
@ShawGynan He went after Biden because he thought Biden could beat him. And almost got away with it until the whistleblower set things in motion. Interesting because though we think of our three equal branches of government—executive, judicial, legislative-as balancing each other out, it took the executive branch civil servants to provide evidence of wrongdoing. This illustrates why we need an impartial civil service, not the partisan civil service to which Trump believes he is entitled.
15
Once again, republicans and Trump supporters should take note: this is how Trump treats all allies. It's only a matter of time before he asks you for a favor that will undermine your integrity and/or betray you (just as he did the Kurds).
12
Dirty Donald is caught once again and he will once again pull his “Gollum” routine to squirm away.
7
"In fact, word of the aid freeze had gotten to high-level Ukrainian officials by the first week in August, according to interviews and documents obtained by The New York Times."
The Zelensky phone call was on July 25th.
Not seeing a quo here, Dems. Womp womp...
3
There doesn’t need to be a quid pro quo!!!!! If I have to hear that phrase again on Fox, MSNBC or CNN I’m going to tie my law degree around my neck and strangle myself to death!!
25
@James
Not sure what point you think you are making here:
On July 25th, as soon as Zelensky thanks Trump for the aid he thinks he will be getting, Trump says, "I want you to do me a favor, though" and urges him to work with Giuliani on the Biden investigation. A week or so later, Ukraine learns that the aid is not, after all, coming through as expected - and Giuliani and associates begin to press for a public commitment to the investigations by Zelensky. What message do you think that was meant to communicate? And don't you think the Ukranians can put two and two together?
23
Just say "squids so low" to yourself instead and magically you'll feel better. Works for me.
3
But President Obama wore a tan suit and saluted boarding Marine One with a coffee cup in one hand. #impeachobama2019
17
Kyiv not Kiev!!!
Good job on Lviv though.
3
Bear in mind thatTrump wanted a public statement in a staged interview of the Ukrainian President that they would be investigating Biden and Burisma. This was the quid pro quo needed to release the military aid.
Now cast your minds back to when Maria Butina asked Trump at an appearance whether he would support sanctions against Russia. Trump replied "I don't think we should be using sanctions against Russia".
THAT was a quid pro quo that Putin was demanding apparently.
14
The page 9 of the statement of ambassador William Taylor, available in the NYT, states
W. Taylor QUOTE:
"Just days later, on August 27, Ambassador Bolton arrived in Kyiv and met with President Zelenskyy. During their meeting, security assistance was not discussed — amazingly, news of the hold did not leak out until August 29."
W. Taylor QUOTE:
"After I learned that the security assistance was released on September 11, I personally conveyed the news to President Zelenskyy and Foreign Minister Prystaiko"
The title "Ukraine Knew of Aid Freeze by Early August, Undermining Trump Defense" is a fake news title.
The quote "During their meeting, security assistance was not discussed — amazingly, news of the hold did not leak out until August 29." PROVES that there was no quid pro quo.
You cannot have a blackmailer blackmail without telling the blackmailed that he is being blackmailed.
August 29 is the end of August, not early August. Two weeks after that Bolton meeting the military help was released.
The Democrats know that they have nothing on Trump.
Their witnesses are trounced, trounced to bits in the questions part. Which is why the Democrats stated that transcripts are not made available.
The Democrats are a bit agitated and confused at the moment, since their latest scheme is coming apart.
Voters will not like that.
Look, if that is what it takes for Democrats to lose the Presidency and the Congress, so be it. You cannot educate people into thinking...
3
Putin approves, congratulations.
10
@novoad
The “ask” is the crime.
Asking for assistance from a foreign goverment to get dirt on a political opponent for personal political gain is illegal. It is unconstitutional and against the presidential oath of office.
5
Please read the article again. It states explicitly in the first few paragraphs that Trump and company continued to pressure Ukraine to announce an investigation against the Bidens while aid was still frozen. Oh, and also, don’t ignore the fact that Trump and company lied when they said that the Ukrainians never learned of the funding freeze.
I can understand the problem of fratricide in combat, but why the heck are our guys so well camouflaged at great expense and research but still sport a bright color flag on their uniform?
1
How about that, actual facts contradict Republican claims!
There was a famous incident where a pro-slavery Southern congressman, Preston Brooks, physically beat a Northern abolitionist with a cane. Guess what? The year was 1856. Nothing that has happened under Trump's presidency has reminded me of that incident more than what happened today in the House. When Republican Gaetz and his fellow zealots broke into that secure hearing room, it told me that we may be one or two incidents away from a shooting war.
Look how self-assured these guys are. They KNOW they are right. They are so far gone in their mania that they actually perceive liberals as the manaics. Of course these are the same liberals and liberal media that have written numerous pieces about healing the divisions between left and right, about life in the South and other places, and how to find common ground, etc. You will not find articles like that in the right-wing media. They are so far gone in their thinking that they can only reactively accuse liberals of the underhanded intent and conspiracies that, in fact, only they are engaged in. Preposterously, they say that dozens of hardworking government employees have gotten together and decided to all agree on the exact same lies, while Trump, a proven liar, is telling the truth. This spells big, big trouble.
19
Ties in nicely with the time frame of Giuliani’s appearance.
7
We know that Trump strong armed Zelensky into providing comprimant.
What should frighten all of us is who else did he call and strong arm or trade away our national security for money or re-election; re-election being the only thing standing between himself and prison?
11
@Anonymous The only way we are going to find out what Trump has promised, given away etc is on the tapes stored on that extra secure server.
These recordings should be subpoenaed before they mysteriously disappeared or are deleted.
....and pigs will fly !
4
Just one "perfect" phone call. Ha.
4
Is this a game of horse shoes? Ukraine may have known aid was being delayed in August, which is closer to the July 25th call than September? Sorry! Still no quid pro quo.
3
Maybe Adam Schiff should send subpoenas to the White House cleaning staff next to cut to the chase because the rate he’s going he would be interviewing every Federal employee and contractors....
Does knowledge of the aid freeze in August 2019 explain why Ukraine agreed to the demand by Russia that Vladimir Tsemakh be included in their prisoner exchange on 7 September 2019? Tsemakh is a major witness and suspect in the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine on 17 July 2014 killing all 298 people abord (including 196 Dutch citizens) and would be able to corroborate Russian complicity.
4
Check in with Trumpublicans in the Senate, since the Donald’s fate rests with them. My guess is you can gather all the evidence you want and you might as well start a bonfire with it. They are never going to rid the nation of this utter disgrace.
Patriots impeach, Cowards acquit
10
Trump making mob deals with Ukraine, getting caught. What in the world did he give Russia.
Putin has got to be astounded for having trump kneeling before him. Cost to the Russians pennies, cost to the American people everything .
What shocks me most is he still gets support.!! Why!!
Lies, steals, cheats, belittle. Bullies, Sopranos in the White House.
Building the wall in Colorado? Does not even know his own country.
What does the world think of America
11
The little guy in the White House is nothing but a compulsive cheat.
5
Smoking 5th Ave gun.
1
Our president is a liar.
He also has little regard for the rule of law.
This is all you need to know.
Congress must impeach this corrupt man. The sooner the better!
6
I have read Taylor's statement. Trump was conditioning release of the Congressionally approved aid to Ukraine on Zelensky making a public pronouncement about Ukraine undertaking an investigation of the Bidens. That part is clear. But it sounds like extortion And, in itself is a crime.
14
As I continue to read an attempt to digest all of these articles, I find myself wondering about a few issues that I haven't really seen addressed:
1. regardless of any sort of explicit quid pro quo, isn't a sitting US president asking a foreign power to investigate their political rivals for personal gain (even if only in part) an impeachable offense? Even if not for "personal gain", it is still asking a foreign government to interfere in our election process.
2. Presuming that you must establish a quid pro quo, isn't the very nature of the power imbalance between the US president i.e. the US i.e. Goliath and the Ukrainian president i.e. David enough to establish that any request from Goliath to David establishes an inherent quid pro quo?
3. Finally, what's the deal with Giuliani? Is a private citizen legally allowed to act as an authorized representative of the US in both foreign and domestic affairs when he is neither an elected or properly appointed representative thereof?
21
@GBKC
1.) Yes
2.) Yes
3.) No
3
he asked for Russia to help while he was running. still got elected
1
Bribery is explicitly named as an impeachable offense in the Constitution. So is treason.
2
We don't know for sure what is going on. We need to wait until the hearings are over.
1
I don’t!
2
Everybody knew of the extortion.
These are not simple people.
6
I find it intriguing how NYT can get secret government documents, but take issue with investigating a swamp surrounding Biden.
Who cares about the timing; it all comes down to whether we should be investigating Biden and I believe the government should. We voted for Trump to Drain the Swamp - that does include those running for President and yes I am sorry even Dems and those that NYT supports.
2
Uh, you voted for Trump and to me, it seems that the swamp is overflowing!
11
@Dan Exactly what is the basis for investigating Biden? Just saying there is a swamp is not enough. And should politicians be able to extort Ukraine to come up with evidence that it has already said does not exist?
Someone as utterly corrupt as 45 is hardly in a position to clean anything, much less a swamp.
8
Trump did not act in the best interests of the U.S. or it’s ally, Ukraine. It is not in the best interests of the U.S. or our NATO allies for Ukraine to be weakened and subsumed by Russia. Trump has done everything that strengthens Putin’s position in areas he wants to be in, and it becomes more apparent every day that bad things will happen to countries Putin desires control over if Trump stays in power. I realize his supporters believe everything Fox News and probably Russian propaganda distributes to them, and they cannot utilize critical thinking - and that includes their elected representatives.
Republicans cannot produce valid information or reasoned arguments supporting Trump’s actions, so they intimidate witnesses, deny access and generally bully the impeachment process. When impeachment hearings head to the Senate floor, Republicans know that is their appropriate opportunity to argue Trump’s case. Actions taken now are just for disruption. The investigative process must be done carefully so people that are going to testify don’t know what others have said. There is a general lack of respect being shown by Republicans for the rule of law. Republicans, and especially Trump, must realize that if they break the law, lie or act outside of moral norms they can’t hide behind their positions in the Government. It is important these proceedings effect honesty in Government and warn those that do not have U.S. best interest not to run for elected office.
214
Question: So what did Ukraine have to do to get the aid released? Answer: Nothing. Facts are stubborn things, aren't they?
8
Congress found out and pressured the White House.
24
@Hank
What they had to do, as it turns out, was wait until this entire sordid plan was exposed and the administration turned tail and tried to cover its tracks. Unsuccessfully.
30
@Hank
Only because of Congressional pressure. That doesn't change the fact that Trump withheld the aid originally in an attempt to get something. The fact that he was foiled doesn't change the very stubborn fact the he used his power to try--which is impeachable.
30
In the closed door testimony of Taylor he actually said in the first 2 minutes they had no idea aid was going to be withheld from Ukraine. This completely contradicts all the MSM articles. And this is also why it’s being done behind closed doors. It’s a dog & pony show for the media. If concrete evidence existed a vote would have already happened and all of this would be public with due process & cross examination.
10
@JOSEPH
On the contrary, Taylor's opening statement indicated that Ukraine did know that aid was withheld. He stated that he had been contacted on 8/29 by Andrey Yermak, a Zelensky advisor. about the aid stoppage that Politico had reported.
16
@JOSEPH How do you know what was said in the first 2 minutes of Taylor’s closed-door testimony?
Who is the “they” you are referring to? Without knowing who you are talking about, it is hard to know what your point is.
There is plenty of concrete evidence of illegal conduct. For example, there is the readout of the call in which Trump clearly requests Ukraine to conduct an investigation of his political rival’s son. This clearly violates federal election law. If you disagree, on what basis do you do so?
As to the investigations being held behind closed doors. This is an investigation and like any investigation, it is held before a trial (which in this case will be conducted in the Senate). It is not a trial. If you seriously think that investigations should be open to the public, then you must be in favor of all grand jury proceedings being open to the public. You also must think it absolutely OK that witnesses can hear what other witnesses say and tailor their own testimony accordingly.
If you are thinking that other impeachment proceedings were held in public, then perhaps you are unaware that they were proceeded by years of investigation by independent prosecutors who conducted their investigations behind closed doors.
The House has a duty to impeach this lawless president and he will be impeached.
11
The precedent the Democrats in the House are setting that liberal and Democratic voters are accepting is inching ever closer to very dangerous territory for the average person since any allegation against a person is becoming the new norm to be brought up on charges without factual evidence or due process.
Ambassador Taylor's statement to Congress yesterday directly links not only Trump but also Pence to an impeachment act: "Sept. 1 meeting in Warsaw between Mr. Zelensky and Vice President Mike Pence that the Ukrainians were directly told the aid would be dependent on Mr. Zelensky giving Mr. Trump something he wanted: an investigation into Burisma, the company that had employed Hunter Biden, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s son."
If my crime boss directs me to give an message to an individual: " do the dirty deed, or we won't pay you", while knowing full well that the money is needed for protection from the bad guy (Putin), then I am a party to the crime. This is a clear act of extortion by Trump along with Pence, Giuliani, and a host of other thugs.
25
Trump’s base are smart for wanting to keep their heads buried in all these Democratic impeachment investigations for they know their sanity depends on it. When it finally ends someone will still be aware enough and able to wipe the drool from our mouths.
1
Trump put at risk the lives of the people of Ukraine and 60 years effort by the West to free Ukrainians from Soviet/Russian rule for his own personal political purpose. He MUST be impeached and removed from office!
32
Rudy learned about the freeze from the newspapers, just like the rest of us. He's just a regular guy.
Wonder how long until this lie is exposed.
24
I'm NOT sure which is worse:
1.) Lying to American citizens W/ a straight face...or
2.) Lying to American citizens, W/ a straight face, 'N, then 'doubling, down'...a colloquialism for further lying, required to reinforce the discredited (initial) lying...
As long as the allegedly, conservative 'Xian' communities continue, supporting / protecting / extolling these never, ending examples of Trumpian_morality...
Please...explain yourselves!!
...In these dark times, the rest of us are forced to seek, (much, needed), comic relief wherever we can find it!
7
If Obama did what Trump is being accused of, I’d be all in for an impeachment investigation and trial. And I like Obama!
28
No wonder why a small group of extremist Republicans were storming the SCIF to disrupt the people’s work. The tightening of the noose is becoming very uncomfortable.
31
If the telephone call in question about the “quid pro quo” between President Trump and the Ukrainian President took place on July 25, 2019 and Ukrainian officials didn’t know until August that aid was being delayed, then how could the “this for that” happen?
Pulling the cart before the horse must be common practice in journalism and on the left side of the aisle in politics...
5
Do you follow the news? The trump call on July 25 was only one of multiple requests for dirt on the Bidens, from Giuliani, Rick Perry, Sondland...
7
@MDCooks8 Sticking your head in the sand must be common practice on the right side of the aisle in politics...
5
The President spoke by phone to Zelensky ostensibly to congratulate him on his election. He stated seven times in how much he needed a favor from Zelensky. He made it absolutely clear that he needed for Biden’s son to be investigated for corruption. Zelensky didn’t at that point, know the aid was being held up.
Shortly thereafter the Trump decision to put a hold on Congressionally approved aid was made known to Mr Zelensky. The reason for the hold was Mr Trump’s desire to get a public commitment to reopen the investigation of Mr. Biden’s son. Don’t you think Mr. Zelensky understood the favor being asked of him?
So when Mr. Trump sat in the Oval Office with Mr. Zelensky and said the call was “perfect” and “there was no pressure,” doesn’t it occur to you that “the favor” was of direct benefit to Mr Trump’s campaign and release of the funds was a bribe?
Is the sequence of events becoming clearer to you? After the White House meeting Mr. Zelensky said the Burisma case was being “looked at” again. Public commitment to deliver Mr. Trump’s badly wanted favor delivered.
By the way, do you remember that the 2016 Republican platform was amended by Trump’s team to eliminate the section supporting aid to Ukraine? Do you think that’s a coincidence?
1
What Trump did is an utter disgrace. It’s clear that he thinks he can do whatever he pleases, abuse another world leader, choke a needy country dependent on that aid for survival , anything to WIN the next election . We look like a corrupt third world country.
25
News Flash: With Trump in the Oval Office and his gang of feckless sycophants running out government, we actually ARE a third world country. Welcome to post-empire, increasingly irrelevant America!
4
I'm still curious why, with all the resources being brought to bear on this issue, we don't know why Ukraine in fact didn't begin investigating 2016 and Burisma, but got the aid anyway--in other words, there was no delivery of the 'quo', but the aid was released anyway-- what's the story on that?
4
@Dennis Holland
The reason why the aid was finally released was because members of Congress , and I think McConnel kept asking why it was not being released . Under pressure , Trump finally released it .
24
The aid was released when the freeze became public and Congressmen from both parties protested the freeze.
11
We picked up a smoking gun and realized that it was just the tip of a pile of smoking guns and then we opened the door and realized there was a houseful of smoking guns, and then....
19
Are you sure it isn’t a water pistol?
1
This may be seen as nitpicking, but I keep close watch on my sources of information and try to make constructive suggestions when I feel they are straying into subjective reporting which can undermine their credibility.
First, let me state unequivocally hat this is a very well researched and informative article, which certainly strengthen's the case against Trump. So what's my problem?
About half way through the article, it states that "Days earlier he [Mr. Zeleensky] listened to Trump implore him..."
Trump certainly asked him. He made a "suggestion" which could be interpreted as a "quid pro quo", but he did not "implore" Mr. Zelensky.
The first definition of "implore" appearing on on a search says that "implore" means to "beg someone earnestly or desperately to do something".
I read the transript like everyone else. Whatever accusation may be made against Trump, he did not "implore" Mr. Zelensky. There are many who want to take his exact words and interpret them to mean Mr. Trump "implored", but that is a sublective interpretation. The words themselves do not satisfy the objective definition.
Whenever a reporter uses subjective language, it suggests that the reporter has a bias. This, in turn, calls the reporter's credibility into question.
The Times does not need to resort to such tactics. Just report the straight objective truth. That's enough.
"beg someone earnestly or desperately to do something."
5
if I am correct these are arguments are not just based off the transcript but also the testimonies. Additionally, that was not a transcript and only a summary provided by White House itself.
1
@Gene Gambale That's a good point. "Asked" would have been more neutral. But Trump did bring up the same topic several times, so I'm not sure "implore" was all that far off base.
6
The arguments coming from the Right lately have been laughable. It’s been the clearest display of grabbing at straws when you have nothing else of substance.
15
Amid this political storm, one thing stands undisputed - More Ukrainians will die as this goes on.
One of the largest cities in Ukraine (excl. Kiev) has been in a perpetual state of war over the past 5 years. Could Donetsk be part of Russian territory by 2025? Yes.
Trump may, may not get impeached but History will remember that Trump squeezed the Ukrainians during their darkest hour for self-gains. Trump's base will be undeterred. Perhaps someone should inform them that Ukrainians are white and in troubles and they got dealt a bad hand by Trump. Will this enrage his ethnocentric base?
It is easy to fool a man but it is more difficult to tell a man that he has been fooled.
12
In the post-Trump era, how will we be able to claim to the moral right to force other countries to clean up corruption in their governments? It's like the corrupt leading the corrupt.
11
For America to regain any international credibility and demonstrate that the values the country has fought for at home and abroad still matter, there must be immediate and bi-partisan action to remove this bunch of crooks from power. Anything less and all we non-Americans can assume is that the corruption has spread to the point that the system is poisoned beyond recovery.
16
Anyone exposed to trump by choice or circumstance knows that trump saw Ukraine as a win-win...for him
With just one criminal act, one impeachable series of actions trump could both make Ukraine more vulnerable to Russia and at the same time force Ukraine to clear Putin of his proven invasion in 2016 while conjuring up fake information against Joe Biden. Trump could never not do this, such a win win
Make Ukraine weak, GOOD FOR PUTIN
Help Russia take over Ukraine, GOOD FOR PUTIN
Dishonestly clear Russia of 2016 invasion as excuse to lift
Sanctions, GOOD FOR PUTIN
Mandate PUBLIC lies about Biden, GOOD FOR TRUMP
So make that win-win-win-win for
CORRUPT TRUMP AND CORRUPT PUTIN
Trump would be incapable of not doing the wrong thing
8
Ukraine should fearlessly disclose in public what they knew in private. That would truly be a favor to the US and without quid pro quo.
3
@NNI
They risk losing US aid, which is why they are keeping silent.
2
“The communications did not explicitly link the assistance freeze to the push by Mr. Trump and Mr. Giuliani for the investigations.” Until and unless you can establish that direct link you have no case.
3
@Edward
Incorrect . Sondland told Taylor that the aid would be held up unless Ukraine made a statement that they were investigating Biden and the Ukraine server ridiculousness .
8
@Edward Oh Edward, still trying. It has been established just not by this piece. This piece dealt with the question of when the Ukrainians knew about the freeze. They were told of the linkage in September.
7
I believe that President Trump is an opposite indicator. Whatever he says, the opposite is probably the truth.
This just one more example. He claims there was no quid pro quo because the Ukrainians had no knowledge of the withheld aid. Now, it is clear they were aware of it.
Just once more example of Trump being an Opposite Indicator.
7
@Tahuaya Armijo An opposite indicator! I have never heard that expression! That is great! Thanks for naming it!
3
@Morgan You are welcome.
Why is this trump idea being given any form of legitimization? Trump claims that since Ukrainians didn’t know he was blackmailing them by withholding aid then it doesn’t count. So if you kidnap someone and the ransom note gets lost in the mail than the person isn’t kidnapped? Who cares when the Ukrainians knew?
10
Why did Trump want Ukraine to investigate Biden and the Democrats server? Was it really to undercover nefarious deeds? It seems more and more unlikely that Ukraine was involved. So what was Trump doing. In my opinion, he wanted to plant the seeds of doubt and then spread untruths about Biden and the Democrats. Just what Rudy, et al are perfect for. Talk about "dirty tricks"
6
So now we wait for the rest of the witnesses and the formal impeachment proceedings, which no doubt are only weeks from happening. If my crystal ball is correct Trump will be impeached by the house and then the Senate will have to try the case. Unfortunately, there are GOP senators that will continue to support this inept excuse for a president, and vote against his removal from office. I just wish the proceedings would happen before the election, so the voters could cast ballots based on which slime ball GOP legislators refuse to follow the rule of law.
5
"n 2017, on average one Ukrainian soldier died in combat every three days, with the number of Russian and separatist troops remaining in the region estimated at 6,000 and 40,000 respectively," according to Wikipedia. Compulsive forms of argument dominate American politics when every discussion of the Ukraine fail to importantly acknowledge the Russia-Ukraine conflict that heated up significantly the day Donald Trump was inaugurated. Trump has needed an excuse within his relationship with Putin to arm the Ukraine -- a girlfriend, a hotel deal, dirt on a political opponent -- dirt on a political opponent, dirt on a political opponent will work. Sorry, Vlad, why even fight them?
2
Cui bono?
Why is it that once the trump maladministrations excuses, lies, stonewalling, and obstructions are pierced, it always seems to benefit Putin, as here?
And if you think that withholding military aid to Ukraine and gaining kompromat on Zelenskyy don’t benefit Putin, you haven’t been paying attention.
8
Yes, the closer we the look into the Trump administration the less we like. I wonder in which administration this would not be the case. Only when there is reasonable evidence of the FULL "quid pro quo" should we get this worked up, imo.
1
Whether or not the Ukrainians "knew" aid was being withheld seems like a red-herring. The Ukrainians surely knew that the much-needed aid COULD be withheld, especially in light of the content of the July 25 telephone call, where Trump's condition precedent to the aid was made quite clear.
3
When Trump let his new casinos in Atlantic City become insolvent, it was because he was uninterested in doing the work needed to be successful with building such businesses. When the big Wall Street investment banks allowed him to use his brand to pay off what he owed them, he wisely stuck to that business and did not try to be a real estate developer like that, again. He found a business that he liked and which suited his work habits.
What is actually bizarre was his becoming a President. This is one of the most challenging and burdensome jobs in history. It requires a person who is serious about doing it right because so much is at stake. The Presidents whose skills have not matched the duties have relied upon people who they can rely to guide them, and they follow the guidance. Trump does not have the willingness to do this. It seems to be just because doing so is hard work and he does not do hard work.
3
By August? I may have misread,
but doesn't this contradict the story that we've heard for weeks,-
that the call succeeded months of withheld aid?
2
There have been many times in the last three years when I have my bowed my head and given thanks that a hard working free press exists in this country....never more so than right now. Thank you so much for the hard work you do. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
10
At the root of this corruption is a President who refuses to do things the way other Presidents have, to go through diplomatic channels, to let career State Department officials handle the negotiations with the President only appearing at the end to sign the agreement that has already been worked out.
Why won't Trump do things the way other Presidents did, and handle everything with one on one discussions with other world leaders? Because Trump's way limits the number of people in the know, limits the number of witnesses, and allows criminal behavior to flourish.
Remember what Mulvaney said. "We do this all the time."
3
Both Mr. Taylor and Secretary Pompeo are West Point graduates, but the difference in their public service is breathtaking. Mr. Taylor is a living embodiment of the West Point motto: Duty, Honor, Country. Mr. Pompeo, on the other hand, obstructs Congress, makes misleading statements to the press, and seems to be loyal to no one but Mr. Trump and his impeachable actions.
8
Obviously Zelensky is still afraid that Trump will manage to cut off needed assistance, so is not discussing the exact date that he learned in August of our presidents desire for dirt on a political rival. And is saying that he felt no pressure, which he may also not want to discuss for the security of his country. The facts revealed in this article though make it clear that Zelensky did learn of the quid pro quo in early August, much earlier than previously known. Good work reporters!
3
William Taylor's opening statement is available for public download. It's a 15 page PDF that I found a very approachable read.
Reading it, it's clear that Taylor perceived that there were two US policies regarding Ukraine, the stated official one and an unofficial one that was at odds with the official one (and Taylor felt that the unofficial one was detrimental, to put it mildly). Taylor almost resigned over this, and from his record nobody can credibly think that Taylor is a lightweight.
In summary, I highly encourage reading Taylor's opening statement.
5
While the world concentrates on quid pro quo, I'd like to remind everybody that it doesn't matter.
Under our federal elections law, the act of solicitation of aid from a foreign national for an American election is a crime, regardless of any other deal.
But, if we're able to prove there was a trade, then it looks a lot like bribery. Donald promised an official government action in exchange for election assistance from Ukraine.
6
As a prosecutor, I spent a career working on challenges like this. You must be relentless.
The goal is to link the slow walking of Ukrainian aid to Trump’s desire that the Ukrainians investigate. There is no evidence that Trump ever explicitly linked the two. If he had the case would be closed. But he deferred, presumably because he knew that linking was illegal. The goal is to prove that without saying so, Trump intended that the Ukrainians get the message.
There is evidence that the Ukrainians did not get the message. And there is no evidence that they investigated. But that is not the issue. The issue is what Trump intended. Why did he slow walk the aid?
Trump, as is widely known, obstructs foreign aid everywhere. So we have to remain relentless and make the tie. Prosecutors are hard headed. And they know that when the going gets tough, the tough get going. Schiff has shown his mettle. He is relentless and he does not celebrate early. Celebrating early is the undoing of many a prosecutor. Schiff is still at it. I knew him in law school. He doesn’t make many mistakes.
4
As a former prosecutor, who is currently a criminal defense and appellate attorney, I've seen many difficult cases, but this is the worst by far because facts don't matter. Trump, the GOP, and Trump's followers are creating a Post-Truth America by destroying everything the US Constitution and the rule of law mean.
The GOP makes a specious argument in defense of Trump, and once evidence shows it's untrue, they come up with a more preposterous defense.
First the argument was that there was no proof of foreign interference in our elections. When interference was proven, the argument shifted to there's no proof assistance was solicited. As Trump solicited assistance, the defense became there's no quid pro quo. A quid pro quo was established, so the defense became that there was no extortion. Now that there's extortion...
There's no question as to Trump's guilt. Trump and Mick Mulvaney, Trump's chief of staff, confessed to it on camera.
Their defense is "get over it", meaning Trump committed the most heinous "High Crimes", knows he committed them, confesses to committing them, but it doesn't matter as he's above the law. In case there's a doubt, Trump called the US Constitution "phony".
It makes no difference how many "Smoking Guns" there are. The GOP will protect Trump no matter what he says and does. This is what it means to live in an America where one of two political parties is a true authoritarian party and controls the Executive, the Senate, and the Judiciary.
6
Now these two senators have to recuse themselves from voting on impeachment if it gets that far and EEO to testify about what they meant when they said to Zelensky as “senators responded, Mr. Taylor said, that Mr. Zelensky “should not jeopardize bipartisan support by getting drawn into U.S. domestic politics.” What did they mean by this in answer to Zelensky’s question about military aid that had already been promised. He wasn’t asking it appears about our domestic politics.
And I thought exposing Trump’s tax returns would be the meat and potatoes. That just may be the gravy at this point.
2
Trump has a consistent pattern of trying to engage foreign countries to meddle in the US election. There is little doubt that he would have colluded with Putin to interfere with the 2016 election, but obstructed justice to cover up the crime.
Escape from legal and political jeopardy is slipping away for Trump and his co-conspirators.Truth will out.
Ukraine most likely knew there was some delay in receiving the aid by early summer. This was not just pocket change someone said they would repay in a few weeks. They knew the money had been appropriated by Congress months earlier and they were in desperate need of it. While they may not have known the true hold up and the danger of losing all of the money, they knew there was a hold up at the time of the call with Trump in July and they knew Trump was the key to getting it released.
To claim they were totally unaware of any problems getting the money in July or August is ridiculous. They may not have known the exact problem, but they knew there was one and Trump was the key in resolving it. You notice weeks earlier when you had no word on $400 million you were expecting by July or August. Things like that do not just magically appear in your checking account one day, the money is preceded by several weeks of instructions and paperwork, but all they were getting was a run around.
4
It's pretty clear to me that the entire trump administration is criminally corrupt. Read Chernow's "Hamilton" and "Washington". What I don't get is why nearly all Republicans are working so hard to support him and it. Embarrassment? Fear of losing power? Supreme Court nominations by trump, when Pence would do their biding until the next election (which go either way depending on whether the Democrats insist on shooting themselves in the foot (Sanders or Warren may very well lose Independents and moderate Republicans with integrity)? For example, go Amy Klobuchar (P) / Buttigieg (VP)!
27
@tobby
The President being removed from office would affect public perceptions of the Republican Party. Better not to let that happen. While most seats in Congress are solid for the incumbents, a lot can switch from one major party to the other over such issues.
4
@Casual Observer
I was opposed to impeachment for political reasons until the Ukraine outrage. It's becoming clearer by the day Trump abused his power and committed an impeachable offense. The House is doing what they must, regardless of political fallout.
2
@tobby Amy & Pete would be a GREAT ticket!
1
DT engaged in outrageous, and chaotic thoughts at a young age, and his friends tried to methodically reign his thought pattern in. It was hopeless. Absolutely, nothing has changed in over 6 decades. Usually, this type of person ends up in prison, but it is his colleagues, or co-conspirators in crime, who are doing the time.
23
It would seem that wealth, or in this case the appearance of it, can buy people willing to throw themselves under the bus for you.
1
@MaryKayKlassen
As a kid Trump was such a handful that his parents sent him to military school (N.Y. Military Academy), where he gained the reputation as a bully. If Donald had grown up poor, he well might be in prison today.
6
@MaryKayKlassen - He had friends?
1
Just as an aside:
An impeachable offense is not necessarily a criminal offense.
The obstruction alone is enough to impeach the entire administration and Republican Party.
44
Actually, the exact meaning of the terms "high crimes and misdemeanors ” is not explicitly defined in the Constitution.
The idea that only criminal acts are grounds for impeachment doesn’t reflect the views of the authors of the Constitution, nor is it consistent with historical precedent. Alexander Hamilton wrote that “the misconduct of public men, or in other words from the abuse or violation of some public trust” could result in impeachment. He described these offenses as “political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself." This argument clearly implies that impeachable offenses can include behaviors that aren’t necessarily crimes.
In any event, this is all a moot point - the entire administration is guilty of obstruction of justice.
2
@Agustus Agustusson Bribery for sure. Treason? Not to mention the others.
No Quid Pro Quo.
So what.
If there is no victim, there is no crime.
...
I did it but I am God and hence above all.
Will this be the last argument.
Are we back to the ancient ages where delusional humans thought they were Gods!!!
6
@Ram
Obey.
He is the chosen one.
Might as well start flying the Russian flag right beside of ours...its be right in front of everyone's face since the day of firing Comey, but "you're fooling yourself, you don't believe it" is a given. Downsizing the Mueller Report (just have to look at the Laundromat there of all the Shell companies and insider trading and politician connections to know something has been thoroughly planned out for years. With partners such as Mitch McConnell, Grassley, Lindsey and others hiding their wealth in these places no doubt and cuddling up to the NRA (who was a main launder of funds for the Russians), they pretty much have this country tied up in all the corruption. With the political right being so blindsided by their need to be right, they are being flimflammed by the very person they support.
The Democrats have one decision to make and that is whether or not they believe in their oath to their office, the Constitution and this country; or they do not. Republicans have already decided that our past history of WWI and WWII and Korean and Vietnam and Iraq means nothing...its all it their bank books. Treason is an ugly word, but it fits all of them...especially Barr who should know better...but I guess Karma does come around again for those who think they are above the law.
Too bad the Senate Democrats are too busy running for President they are ignoring their duty to raise their voices for impeachment NOW from their Senate seat.
12
the arguments are not in good faith. and they will continue. and they will utilize all available propaganda techniques.
6
@Bill like selected leaks from the Democrats after having been warned of severe penalties for leaking by Shifty.
2
@Mkm. You are assuming it is Democrats leaking the info. It could very well be Republican. They are on the comity as well and as long as they are not seen criticizing Trump they feel safe. Many of them do, but only in private.
1
We have moved right past a somewhat underhanded, wing-and-a-nod negotiation into the realm of outright extortion and
protection racket/ mob tactics.
"...Nice little country you got here, Zelensky. Would be a shame if something happened to it...."
26
We may be saved by the incompetence of Trump and enablers, too stupid to remember they had communicated (through Rudy and his indicted, photogenic sidekicks?) to Ukraine the suspension of nearly $400,000,000 in military assistance, pending Ukraine's helping Trump win re-election.
This seemingly small piece of news may become the Alexander Butterfield moment in Trump's impeachment, in this case irrefutable evidence Ukraine knew they were being blackmailed early on in this saga.
Chronologies matter.
19
It's hard to believe that Bill Clinton was impeached for lying about a consensual sexual affair but Trump lies every day about things big and small, and it's okay with the Republicans and with Trump's followers.
48
Clinton was impeached because he committed perjury to deny the civil rights of a fellow citizen. Don’t follow the line to diminish the offense, just as you should not follow the line Trump’s defenders want you to. Clinton should have been removed, just as Trump should be
3
I do not diminish Clinton’s offense, except it had nothing to do with the conduct of his public duties and no impact on the American people. Therefore, should not have been considered grounds for impeachment. Any prosecution could have been delayed until the end of his term. On the other hand, Trump’s offense has everything to do with the conduct of his public duties and impacted the American people both in how their money was being spent and the integrity of their elections.
14
Your thinking on Clinton is warped and punitive. Nobody’s civil rights were abridged. It was a private sexual encounter that the Republicans broadcast to the public for purely political reasons. You can’t rewrite history. Too many of us who lived through it are still alive.
5
Whether I like it or not, Donald Trump is our President, but something I can't stand is his constant game of "Catch me if you can" and then, "Well, you caught me, get over it."
My nine-year-old son knows that his mother and I can understand how he sometimes may misbehave.
But, I can assure what he knows, even more, is that if he lies about it, then he's going to be severely punished.
Every human relationship is built on trust, he's been taught, and if we can't trust you are telling us the truth, how can we guide and protect you?
It is a sad, sad state of affairs when our President doesn't have the morals of a nine-year-old and thinks it is perfectly fine to hide, lie, and conceal his wrongdoing.
I respect someone who fesses up quickly and shows sincere remorse.
I cannot abide or stand, however, someone who cheats and steals and then lies about it.
Why is "the coverup worse than the crime?"
I just told you why and even a child knows the difference.
24
On the defense side, probably nobody in your family had an older brother that drank himself to death, at a fairly young age. Donald, for better or for worse, lived through that and watched it happen.
Many people in prison right now could cite similar defenses.
We have the White House's own transcript of the telephone call; we have Mulvaney's confession, and we have all the holes filled in by the star testimony of Yovanovitch and Taylor. My big problem is whether Trump, Barr, Pence, Pompeo and Guiliani (or any of them) are going to be prosecuted. If they aren't, we're looking at a huge miscarriage of justice. This is so much worse than Watergate crimes, but there are two key similarities that are chilling. In both cases Republicans in power were using criminal means to defeat Democrats and perpetuate their power over the nation. But Trump's case is soooo much worse because he and his accomplices were using the power of office to extort another nation. The tendrils of the crime are astounding. In both cases the intent is to make the US a one-party country by the use of crime to harm the reputations of their opponents in elections. While accusing the others of "fake media" on every hand, they are up to their eyebrows in efforts to generate fake media. An impeachment of the President will not bring justice to this. Will the wound just be left to fester while the man off the street spends time in jail for being late to jury duty?
27
Additionally what makes this worse is the situation has jeopardized our country’ National Security. Watergate was domestics politics. The whole thing is beyond astounding.
1
Thank you for you excellent, on point, intelligent comments!
It is not easy to believe that the Senate would ignore the current level of fact finding about the president’s activities including the lies and deceptions around this entire Ukrainian affair of trading guns for information about one of Trump’s electoral opponents. With that said, the GOP could choose to ignore the open facts about Trump’s egregious duplicity, an outrage beyond description. Taking bets.
6
I’m mystified. You would think they’d be jumping up and down with joy to get President Pence! Can’t figure it out. They’re being handed a “true” conservative (whatever that really means) on a silver platter and it looks like they’re balking. Why?
@Truie It's an old story (and a truism)...
"Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it."
"Undermining Trump's Defense" is a very generous turn of phrase for "Exposing How he Lied"
15
I feel so sorry for that young, inexperienced and reformist president of Ukraine. With the survival of his country at stake and the hopes of his people resting on him, he shouldn't have had to deal with a self-serving bully in the United States.
31
@abigail49 Unfortunately for him he has to deal with self-serving bullies everywhere. I'm just ashamed that ours is one of them.
1
Most Americans believe that they can do whatever they wish because the constitution gives them permission....no matter if what they do is moral or immoral, decent or indecent, or right or wrong. With this kind of total freedom the future will have no need of prisons, law enforcement agencies, nor law books. Why? Because if the law allows you to do what you want, then there is no wrong you can do.
Blessed are those who do not see yet believe. To those who believe in His name: who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1
Most Americans don’t know what is in the Constitution. What they know they got from sound bites supporting one political agenda or another.
As for God and the rest of the biblical(?) gobbledygook, polling show there is nothing trump can do that will prevent them from supporting him.
@manoflamancha Where do you get this odd notion that most Americans have no moral or ethical core? I can't think of one person that I personally know who believes what you claim. Strangely, belief in your god has nothing to do with their moral and ethical standards. Yet, we see a major political party that wraps itself in the flag and invokes Jesus endlessly while engaging in very immoral and unethical behaviors. Is that who you mean?
@aoxomoxoa
Relax. He was talking about La Mancha.
My dog ate my homework!
5
Remember when the plumbers broke into DNC HQ? I knew Nixon was behind it.
I had the same feeling when I heard that Donald withheld security assistance to Ukraine in exchange for fabrications about the Bidens.
Sometimes, things are exactly what they seem.
11
Love the photo. I always find it interesting (and kind of depressing) when I see groups of House Republicans. Bunch of mostly old white guys in dark suites. How long can they keep it going?
16
@Steven Ahlgren
"suits", not suites. But yeah, they are going over all logical, sensible, moral limits.
Wow, how shocking that Republicans have been caught lying yet again to cover up crimes.
10
Republicans in Congress, wake up!
6
If something smells rotten, something is rotten.
9
Donald I'd like to say that I will miss you but I know you don't like liars.
6
Mulvaney and Guliani are the fall guys?
Trouble is at the head of this snake. but nobody with an "R" assigned to their name will hold that person accountable. Vote them out in 2020, all of 'em.
13
Putin and his gang of oligarchs must have their claws deep into Trump's flesh....it's a shame that this country elected such a dolt who has brought the Russian mob into our government.
17
The gang that couldn’t lie straight!
20
@Welcome Canada
Here’s another one for you.
“We are not interested in annexing Canada”
What makes me so angry about all of this is that we thinks we’re stupid.
7
So Trump and his agents sought to collude with Ukraine to help Trump’s re-election effort.
It’s what we thought he did with Russia based on some pretty strong circumstantial evidence but Mueller was unable to corroborate but here we have it it the White House’s own words and multiple independent sources filling in the backstory.
21
Waiting for the next denial: “Does anyone seriously believe Trump would know what quid pro quo means?”
17
Looks like Trump didn't move the goal post far enough this time.
7
What should be most telling is Trump's parade of excuses and explanations, each one rolled out after the previous one is proved to be a lie, finally ending with "So what? Get over it." I've lost count of the times we've watched him perform this routine.
Only those bound and determined to believe, against all the evidence, stand ready and willing to swallow tomorrow's lies, never asking themselves, "Why all the previous lies?" It really is cult-like behavior.
15
Trump, it seems has never told a truth in his life. He doesn’t even bother with half truths to make himself seem credible. Yada, yada, yada. But now he is not only vulgar and despicable, his narcissism , self interests, and ego have caused the death of and untold number of Kurds. And we find that a massive number more of men woman and children may die. It is like a tsunami of diplomatic malfeasance, and a hurricane of his own selfish interests have destroyed U.S. credibility around the world. I am 71, and I never thought I would see what is happening in my lifetime.
22
To paraphrase the late GOP Senator Howard Baker, what we all want to know is: What did Trump know about when Ukraine knew about the aid freeze, and when did he know that they knew it?
4
O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!
13
This, my president trump, is what a free press does to bolster and perpetuate our country and our precious democracy.
Shedding light on when the Ukrainians knew of your extortion is what a free press can do to deflate your lies and assertions.
The press uncovers what you conceal, bringing to light what you wish to stay unseen in the darkness surrounding
your administration.
History will not be kind to you.
21
High time trump is held accountable for his crimes. He has no privilege when he breaks the law. He is corrupt to the core. He is a pathological liar. You cannot believe anything he says. This is hurting our country, republican enablers if you are listening. What are you fighting for? So trump is allowed to break the law?
10
Trump's lies continue to be exposed, as well as the lies of GiulianI, Mulvaney, and now Sondland, who has apparently committed perjury.
The White House continues their strategy of "truth by repetition,"a standard propaganda ploy, where repeating a lie incessantly will eventually convince some vacuous dolts to accept it as true. Trump has used this tactic effectively in the past, but on this Constitutional crime he must be confronted with the truth about his actions, or our entire legal system will crumble before our eyes into utter fascism.
11
One of Trump's stated reasons for freezing the aid is that he wants Europeans to provide more of it. That reason didn't require Europeans to know about the freeze. So does it matter if Ukrainians knew?
4
@Ilya Shlyakhter If Trump really wanted the Europeans to pony up before the US sent aid, then of course he'd have to tell the Europeans. If he was just doing what he usually does, and complaining about Europeans without any sense or logic or plan, just an old man spouting off, then no, he wouldn't.
5
And Trump never lies...
2
@Ilya Shlyakhter
You go to the DMW to get your plates renewed. Unnoticed by you your insurance card expired the day before. The clerk notices but says nothing about that but by DMW policy shouldn't give you new plates. The clerk takes an unusually long time carefully scrutinizing the papers, then says "My lunch break is in a minute but I forgot my wallet. Can you give me $10 for lunch?" You don't want to make a scene, stammer that you forgot your checkbook and can't pay the renewal fee and will come back later. And walk away.
Next person goes to the counter and the exact same thing happens except that person's insurance wasn't expired so there was no valid reason for not issuing the plates.
In both cases the DMV worker committed a crime. Asking for a bribe in order to perform your job is a crime, regardless of whether you had a good reason not to.
Morally the first case is actually worse as the implication is the DMV guy would give you the plates even though he shouldn't.
1
It’s happened to me. My organization was counting on getting 391 million Dollars from organization-z, and the money was held up, and we didn’t even notice for quite awhile.
Ouf, better to say it: I am being sarcastic.
7
The problem with holding on to power through any and all means is that you inevitably set frightening precedents. The republicans have to unify behind Trump because they don’t have a choice—the democrats will do terrible things to them if they don’t. Imagine a world of democratic gerrymandering, Elizabeth Warren asking North Korea to spy on her political enemies, the state-sponsored demonization of Fox News. It’s all possible now, because republicans have made it possible. They will never give up power because they fear what they have wrought.
6
Sadly, there’s no one in the inner Trump administration/circle who will step up, or has the intestinal fortitude, to advise Trump that “We have a cancer within—close to the presidency, that’s growing”.
None of his aides, close advisers, family members, none of them are willing to see, admit or speak the truth. Few in Republican leadership positions will either. Not when there are pockets to be lined and self-interest to put first. The entire country will suffer until a few good Republicans are finally willing to put country first.
17
Regardless of how many of Trump's lies and high crimes become public it's futile in the long run. Facts don't matter to Trump Supporters. They continue to believe that he is a beleaguered folk hero who is being persecuted. Similar to Gary Cooper's character in Frank Capra's Meet John Doe.
5
@Watchfulbaker
He's never polling over 42-43% support. I'm shocked at how solid that 42-43% is, but it's not enough for him to get reelected, and with those kinds of numbers at the top the rest of the party down the ticket would suffer badly.
Peeling off people from that 42-43% is not a necessary thing. What matters is ensuring no one outside that group votes for him, no matter how much they prefer their company health plan over the remote chance of Medicare for All passing Congress. What matters is no anti-Trump folks staying home on election day because they've got a headache and it doesn't matter anyway.
3
"Ukraine Knew of Aid Freeze by August"
The Trump phone call was in mid July. Thus when the Ukrainians did not know anything about the aid freeze. So there was no quid pro quo on the phone. All the story of the whistleblower, etc. now fell apart.
This must be the first blackmail in human history when the blackmailed was not told and did not know that he was blackmailed.
By the time they found out, the aid was restored within two weeks, at the beginning of September. Without any effect on the actual weapons delivery.
That is why the Democrats don't now allow even the ranking members to get a transcript of the interviews. They are THAT bad for the inquiry... As bad as Mueller's and Lewandowski's testimonies were.
It's a good recipe for losing the House, in addition to losing the Presidency.
2
@novoad
"And it means that the Ukrainian government was aware of the freeze during most of the period in August when Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, and two American diplomats were pressing President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine to make a public commitment to the investigations being sought by Mr. Trump."
I think you're going back to the Trumpian defense of the obstruction of justice charges, which is "Trump had a criminal scheme, but It didn't work, so it's okay!" Just because Congress found out about the aid holdup and forced Trump's hand doesn't mean he's not a criminal and sure as heck doen'st mean he isn't doing it again as we speak.
We don't have to wait until Trump extorts a nation with our tax dollars in a way that actually swings the election, do we?
6
@novoad
The wrongdoing is that Trump asked the Ukraine government to interfere in a domestic political matter for the purpose of advancing Trump’s personal political ambitions. The determination of wrongdoing does not require that quid pro quo was evident. The quid pro quo is just the icing on the top of the impeachable offence.
1
Ukrainian diplomats may have become aware in August that military aid was being withheld, but Ukraine President Zelensky had already agreed to President Trump’s request for investigation during the July 25 phone call. Zelensky said during an October news conference that “There was no blackmail.” He added as evidence that he “had no idea the military aid was held up.” This indicates Trump did not threatened to withhold military aid. There was no need; Zelensky readily agreed to Trump request.
Ambassador Taylor now asserts that Trump made the delivery of military aid to Ukraine contingent on Zelenskiy’s making a public announcement that he was opening an investigation into the Biden/Burisma relationship. But Taylor’s allegation is based on what other diplomats told him occurred during conversations in which Taylor was excluded. In other words, it is hearsay. Taylor said Ambassador Sondland told him that Zelensky agreed to “make a public statement in an interview with CNN.” Taylor thinks Zelensky was pressured even though he testified Sondland told him he assured Zelenskiy there was no quid pro quo.
However, the military aid money was released in September although the promised CNN interview never took place. It is likely that Zelensky agreed to make a public statement without being coerced, just as he agreed to look onto the Biden dealings in Ukraine without being coerced.
1
@William Case it is likely that you are parroting the Administration’s false process arguments and defending their crimes no matter what because that is what you consistently do, regardless of the issue.
10
@Chuck Burton
That's not true. I think the Obama administration was within its rights when it threaten to withhold aid from Ukraine unless it fired its prosector general. I think the Trump administration was right to ask Zelensky to look into allegations of corruption. However, there is no proof Trump threaten Ukraine. Vice President Joe Biden bragged about bullying Ukraine by threatening to withhold aid. Quid pro quo is a routine part of diplomacy. The United States attaches conditions to almost all foreign aid.
1
@Chuck Burton
My source are the New York Times, Washington Post and Wall Street Journal. As far as I know, the White House has not responded to Taylor's allegations.
So if I employ a hired gun to kill my husband and he doesn't know, does that mean the police could not arrest me for conspiracy to attempt murder? And then because I'm free, what happens when the hit succeeds? Does it mean it still doesn't count because my husband never saw the bullet coming?
9
@Peggy Rogers There's only one way to know, Peg. Get back to us when you find out.
3
In Mike Pompeo and William B Taylor we have two West Point grads with very different takes on the honor code.
"A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do."
14
The reason this quid pro quo issue has so much traction to date is that Trumps corruptness goes to the very heart of our system of government, the checks and balances between the branches and elections. The dems and all rational people, need to make the public argument in simpler terms. This is akin to betting on your own team in professional sports, an umpire on the take. He worked to rig the system and acted to undermine our country's most sacred democratic ideals. Our leaders and pundits and news outlets should stop framing this, confusingly, as a politically motivated quid pro quo (which many americans don't understand) but as it is: an attempt to rig the game, corrupt the entire system. This is worse than the Chicago Black Sox scandal, or Pete Rose betting on his own games, and much worse than Watergate. The only remedy for such a violation is conviction after impeachment. No punishment but the most extreme sanction could suffice to save the very integrity of the system being attacked. But, we need to dumb it down, simplify and explain why this transgression, more than all the others, is unforgivable and disqualifying in a president as a matter of law.
8
I no longer believe anything coming out of the WH, especially from Trump himself. Trump has said that he can do whatever he wishes and he's determined to assert that stance over and over again. Trump didn't drain the swamp: he polluted it.
10
@Barbara I don't actually see the "swamp" that everyone seems to be talkng about. But I do see the proud little "gotcha" grin from that guy in the WH.
That's all I need to make me doubt.
2
Trump said the Ukrainians has no knowledge aid was being withheld at the time of the July 25th phone call where the whistleblower claimed Trump asked for quid pro quo. The New York Times tells us Ukrainians may have found out about aid being held in August.
Making Trump’s claim 100% correct. There was no quid pro quo that occurred on the phone call with Zelensky because he was unaware any aid was being withheld. This seems fairly straightforward (August comes after July).
3
@XLER If your boss or someone with power over you—someone you need something from—says 'I need you to do me a favor, though,’ chances are you're going to do it. That's a quid-pro-quo and it's an abuse of power, so don't try to claim otherwise.
And if your boss or someone with power over you pressured you in such a manner and then, while sitting right next to you in front of others, asked "Did I pressure you?", of course you're going to say no.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter if there was a quid-pro-quo or not, though: Trump invited both Ukraine and China (and Russia, during the 2016 campaign) to interfere in our elections, and that right there is enough to warrant impeachment.
11
@XLER Guess you missed the part about the WH visit.
The Trump people are lying, as they have been all along.
Congress -- including Senate Republicans -- need to clean house and deal with this scandal. Pronto. There is no rationale to excuse this level of blatant corruption and criminality.
Based on Mr. Taylor's testimony, as well as solid corroborating evidence from other witnesses and the White House itself, this conspiracy included the active participation (and attempts to cover up) by:
-- President Donald J. Trump
-- US Attorney General, William Barr
-- Chief of Staff, Mick Mulvaney
-- Energy Secretary, Rick Perry
-- Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo
...and even Vice President Mike Pence.
They should all either resign, or face legal consequences.
And if congressional leaders such as Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham can't admit that this grotesque abusive of executive power is an impeachable scandal, and if they won't act to protect the republic, then maybe they should resign as well.
11
It seems leaks and selected context are being used as if it were corroborated news. One could read this story, and assume Trump was asking for proof of ending known previous corruption was what was expected, which he could legally do. The previous prosecutor signed a sworn affidavit stating he was fired for investigating Burisma. That would be a 2016 inquiry. A star chamber, without unbiased questioning are making news. Immediately after Trump released a transcript, Schiff’s description becomes a proven false defamatory summation. This comes from Schiff, who lied about contact with the witness, referring him to a biased law firm, who composed a whistleblower complaint to the IG. Really? If Schiff, or Biden, or the Clinton team goes to the Ukraine looking for truth, they are praised. If Gulliani or Barr want to find out what happened in 2016, it’s political aid from a foreign country, impeachable. You guys are kidding, right?
1
@Jay
The true believers will be very surprised when the Durham report on the origins of the "Russian Collusion" illusion comes out and the top former FBI and CIA and others in the previous administration are indited.
Then they will be 'woke'
All this nonsense might well have been avoided had AG Barr not been brazenly providing cover for trump by deliberately shirking the responsibilities of his office. He pulled the same stunt with whistle-blower reports as he did with the Mueller report with his contrived "nothing there" charades. Now it turns out there is indeed a lot there! And AG Barr has lots to answer for including:
> why he still has not released to Congress the 'real' Mueller report (ie clean of redactions) now long overdue.
> why he's surreptitiously closing down pending court cases left by the Mueller investigation without explanation.
10
And this is why I pay for a NYT and WSJ subscription -- as a thank you to their investigative journalists who have persevered against all odds to bring facts to the public.
9
If the first falsehood doesn't do it, try another, another and another.
The Trump modus operandi.
6
It is not at all surprising that multiple House Republicans interrupted further testimony today with the sham excuse of opening doors. Meanwhile, Trump proclaims that a permanent cease fire between the Kurds and Turkey has been reached, failing to mention that the he had nothing to do with it, it was his buddy Putin who is in control now.
My God, what have we done!
61
Why does it matter if Ukraine knew of the blackmail? The only thing that matters is that trump and his shadow deep state government were blackmailing an ally for trumps own political gain and in the process leaving Ukraine vulnerable to putin and put our national security at risk all for trumps fake dirt on Biden.
trump and his shadow government belong behind bars.
23
Dear Donald, have a very, very beautiful day.
And give our regards to Rudy, wherever he's hiding.
9
@Ken
Rudy is having panic attacks.
3
Ukraine knew about aid freeze but even if it did not:
"We demanded quid pro quo and withheld the military aid but because Ukraine did not know about the aid freeze, it could not have known about our corrupt intent. And if they did not know about our corruption, there was no corruption."
This administration is the world's most complete collection of stable geniuses.
21
Can we see the documents? Or at least know anything about them, other than that they are documents?
2
I’m glad that we are not rushing the impeachment inquiry. I want to see all of the dirt. Every last piece.
26
Lindsey Graham: "Nothing to see here...".
Politics aside, you gotta wonder how aging individuals made the decision, in the twilight of a successful career, to sell their souls to Donald Trump for nothing in return but guaranteed insults.
47
@Merlin
Do not tack this on age. Plenty of young folks like Ben Sasse support Trump. My friends 23 year old son and his group are Trump fans.
1
Let's not forget the Trump campaign was responsible for changing the Republican platform in July, 2016. Under Manafort's skullduggery, a pledge to provide military support for the government of Ukraine was removed.
These monkeyshines started long ago, with different players, but the same end game - easing Putin's recapture of what used to be called "Russia's breadbasket."
35
Honestly, is there anything else left for Trump to lie about regarding this Ukraine extortion deal?
[And I wouldn’t be surprised if the publicly released transcript of the call—with the multiple ellipses—didn’t purposefully leave out Trump talking about the military aid being withheld.]
7
Do we have enough time to impeach Pence before the 2020 election? He's as guilty as any of them.
24
Early August is not July 25
6
@Alex E Oh ok. That makes everything perfectly fine.
2
I, for one, am shocked.
2
What, me quid pro quo?
3
Just heard, from a Republican consultant in Austin, speaking on NPR that evidence had been given during the closed door hearing yesterday that Ukranians did not know the money had been withheld. Thank you, NYT, for making it clear that this new piece of disinformation being touted by the administration and its minions is just another desperate attempt to save this corrupt president.
28
RICO (charge is bribery).
7
And amid all of this, Barr is traveling the world trying to get to the bottom of the origin of the Mueller Report. What a waste of time and taxpayer money. The origin is right here under our noses, at home in the White House.
This president and his supporters have set a new standard of corruption, malfeasance and ineptitude. They all need to be put out to pasture. Preferably, one surrounded by tall fences and barbed wire.
18
@Larry
origin = HRC
So doesn't this find the VP with his pants down?
21
Don’t be concerned, Pence has nothing to see.
5
So the NYTimes believes a partial secret leak from the democrats impeachment story. The President of the Ukraine has said publicly that he had no knowledge of a freeze in the military gift package. Stop the hate!
4
The Ukrainian President is obviously lying too; and let's face it, he has a serious political incentive to do so.
6
@C C Daniels
Yeah and why would he lie? All he would risk is losing the money the WH was holding up and risk losing his country to the Russians.
8
@C C Daniels Of course President Zelensky would say this, he can't afford to anger Mr Trump. It's a white lie for the sake of his country. Acknowledging facts has nothing to do with hate.
9
Lock HIM Up!!!
19
Yes! This should be the Democrats new mantra.
3
@aj_LA
Already is.
History does repeat itself. Both Nixon and Trump broke the law trying to get dirt on their opponent.
16
I am suspicious that the Trump administration didn’t care whether the Ukrainians investigated the Bidens or not. While Trump may be so deluded that he believes the conspiracies about the Ukrainian theft of the DNC server, all the obsession with Zelensky making a public statement — to the point that Giuliani, Volker and Sondland were drafting the precise language of the statement — seems to indicate that this is what they really wanted. That would be enough to sink Biden’s chances in the primaries, and the longer the Ukrainians were supposedly investigating (which we have learned could take years) the result really would not matter. The point was to sink a strong competitor to Trump now, and the statement by a foreign government would do that, just like James Comey’s statement did days before the 2016 election.
18
@Ockham9
Also, what difference would the public statement make to the investigation? Making a public statement doesn't put Zelensky 'in a box' where he can't back out. Geez, if he makes a private commitment to Trump, THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE WORLD and the leader of Ukraine's most important ally, that's pretty tough to back out of. Having said you'd do it publicly doesn't materially increase the pressure to follow through.
Really, a public statement probably reduces the likelihood of following through. People in Ukraine who know better would likely react and Zelensky would get pressure at home to not be yet another player of corrupt games and not follow through. Which he might need to bow to. Just quietly doing a real investigation reduces that risk.
The public statement request was purely to benefit Trump.
Were the officials who informed the Ukrainians people who were basically pursuing their own foreign policy, and telling the Ukrainians about the potential delay when they were not instructed to communicate that?
Who are these officials? What are their motivations?
5
Their motivations appear to be defending the rule of law and the constitution of the United States, unlike the president.
3
TLDR: This is evidence the Trump administration's shadow foreign policy was working to corrupt Ukraine's anti-corruption government, in direct opposition to official foreign policy towards Ukraine.
8
Trump’s lying is reflexive and incessant—
Can’t Republican senators see that?
8
Heavens ! Are you suggesting the President told an untruth? Our President?
6
Another day, another Trump lie shot down. I can hardly wait for tommorrow's.
9
More e-ink being spilled over stuff we already know to be true. Dear god make it stop
2
Drip, drip, drip... Whoosh!
6
Those GOP congresspeople who stormed the secure conference facility to get into the committee hearing seem to think their behavior makes Mr. Trump look like an innocent victim of their House colleagues.
But it just makes him look worse. If they really think he's innocent, you'd think they'd want the inquiry to proceed to clear it all up.
Of course they don't see what's wrong in putting personal political beliefs above country, because that's what they're doing when they let Mr. Trump circumvent Constitutional spending authority; call a proceeding of their own House a 'coup'; and tolerate him describing part of the Constitution --at least ours, maybe not theirs -- as 'phony'.
18
If a criminal drains my bank account but I don’t find out about it until later does that somehow negate the crime? No. Trump illegally withheld funds that a bipartisan Congress had authorized for Ukraine. At what point they knew about the crime is immaterial.
18
And who were the officials who so informed the Ukrainians at this time?
People who were deliberately undermining Trump, and would not serve the duly elected President?
Taylor, for example?
2
@frankly0
They took an oath to be loyal to the Constitution and laws, not the president.
22
@frankly0 More likely Giuliani, a shakedown only works if the victim knows...
3
@frankly0 Taylor was appointed by trump to the Ukraine post
4
Trump and his cronies are just trying out different excuses and defenses to see if anything sticks.
The impeachment hearings are swatting these defenses down effortlessly.
Keep up the investigation. Get to the truth - however unfortunate it is.
21
This article repeats a widespread falsehood, namely that "Burisma ... employed Hunter Biden". A non-executive director is not and employee, and is paid an "honorarium" (theoretically to cover expenses), not a salary. In fact, the whole strength of the "board of directors" as an institution is that it (theoretically) provides disinterested, outside advice to a company. Words really do matter, in these overheated times when so many are ready to seize upon and distort them for crudely partisan reasons.
8
Republicans drew a thier red line at a quid pro quo. I'm wondering how they are gonna weasel out of that now that it's implicit that has happened.
5
Obviously, the evidence will mount against Trump. But, Pence may be caught up as an equal accomplice.
The result could be both impeached and thrown out of office.
Who then takes command?
Nancy Pelosi.
Delicious
12
Trump vs. Taylor....who will you believe?
This will be Trump's "Boy who cried Wolf" moment.
8
William Taylor should be commended for his bravery. If he really opposed the machinations of the Trump political machine, he needs to given all of the accolades of any military general who fights the good fight. I feel bad for many of these state officials who will now be damaged by the self-serving position Trump put them in. They will not likely serve this country again. This will be a huge loss for diplomacy.
I have been a witness before. I would have rather not been. Often times the system and policies designed to protect integrity, actually work against witnesses and whistleblowers, because of the inconvenience of truth. We Americans understand right from wrong, but the fear of losing something...a job, a friend, a career, a promotion, a raise or even prestige causes us to defend the indefensible.
It has become harder and harder in the US to be a good citizen. Money and power makes all. The pledge of allegiance is just words we say to look patriotic. We were all taught good citizenship as children. Then when we became adults we became cowled and overruled by a dishonest and unfairly weighted system.
7
Why do you think Trump has recruited so many self-serving, self-dealing chancers over the course of his administration? Because he was swamped with offers from men and women of integrity?
6
Republicans are using the defensive strategy on the western front in World War 1 - line after line of trenches, fall back after the closest-in trench is taken by the opponent. Until you run out of trenches. And then the kaiser abdicates.
11
Brick by brick, every argument from the president and his allies is falling, revealing more and more of this administration's corruption and abuse of power.
So far the truth is emerging, made harder by GOP obfuscation and stonewalling.
Just imagine what a Trumpian world would be without the power of the free press. Ponder that as you look ahead to the upcoming year.
15
The phone call took place in July. Does August come before or after July? I don’t remember.
5
@Dr. Trey Seriously! Does anyone else pay attention or is it just "bad Trump" all day long. Follow the facts people.
3
Ehrm ... you are joking, right? Do you actually think the sequence of the two events matters if Ukrainian officials were told of the reason for the military aid being held up? First of all, we have received an official, non-complete transcript of Trump's 'perfect call' which confirms that he did ask for a quid pro quo (8 pages of a call lasting half an hour also means that the transcript has been heavily sanitized). Secondly, after these two events, Ukraine started talking about reopening the investigation into Burisma. What's that whiff? Gun smoke?
5
This impeachment investigation needs to be double-timed. If it carries on through December, there’s no telling the damage Trump could do.
He’s already betrayed Kurdish allies, lifted sanctions on Turkey and ceded a portion of the Middle East to Putin. The longer this takes, the more damage he’ll do to the United States and the world in his efforts to deflect from the investigation.
What’s next? Holding up aid to Taiwan in an effort to get a better trade agreement with China? Setting fire to Yosemite? Declaring martial law? Placing animatronic tyrannosaurs at our southern border? Actually removing the U.S. from NATO — or the UN?
Please members of the House Intelligence, Oversight and Reform, and Foreign Affairs Committees, hurry this along.
7
I gather the Fox News crowd thinks this is all "no big deal" so maybe this should be framed as a misuse of tax dollars. I am sure the Trumpists would all howl in protest if it was a Democratic president who had used the government and our tax dollars to smear and investigate Republicans....I work at a public institution and if used taxpayer funds earmarked to help development to further my political agenda I would get fired...no doubt about it. Trump is ultimately a servant of the people, not a king, and he should be fired too.
11
Yet another nail in Trump's political coffin (which, evidently, no amount of nails can seal).
10
The Republican Party is synonymous with lying these days. Lies, lies and more lies...what Trump says cannot be trusted, nor Barr, as the impeachment marches on one can only hope each day brings him closer to the end.
4
Rudy: “I didn’t know about it until I read about it in the newspaper,”
How can this unelected person conduct geopolitical negotiations?
9
Trump enablers have learned well the teachings of their leader: deny, deny, and then deny again and again.
29
The next phase of Trump? He will have a late night phone call with Kim Jong Un and agree to an invasion of the South. Same justification as Syria. He was going to invade anyway. Why lose American lives. They have been fighting for 70 years. Not our problem.
Politically, it would be better for the Democrats that he survive an impeachment and renominated. But the damage he could do in so little time, is staggering.
The old Hillary ad about who do you want to be taking the 3 a.m. phone call: We now know how prescient that phone call was.
He must be removed. It isn't just about the Supreme Court. It is about the survival of the Post World War II world.
27
It is now obvious that the republicans will utter any lie or purposefully create any falsehood to defend the indefensible.
I wonder how it will ever be possible to trust them again on anything?
Apparently they are now fully engaged in an active campaign of dishonesty to the American people, and that they value power and party over country.
Anyone today that signs on to the republican party in any capacity is giving their tacit approval of this terrible travesty against the USA.
13
It to Ukraine’s credit that they didn’t bend to Trump’s extortion.
8
@Eugene Phillips
I am loving this Ukraine president so much more than our resident alien.
Mulvaney said in a press conference we do this sleazy business style all the time. This blackmail ,extortion is a felony and the Catholics and Evangelicals are an accessory . No heaven for you keep supporting this corrupt administration. You are reaping what you sow.
What countries in the future will want to deal with any corrupt Republican administration again? At least the Dems are not that desperate to win an election we always win by millions of more votes.
6
Ok, so … yiei Democrats.
You win.
Congratulations.
Swear in President Pence, and watch him win 2020 and 2024, hopefully with Nikky Haley as running mate, and have her run in 2028 and become the first lady president.
Pence knows all of Biden’s hidden skeletons, and will shred Warren to pieces.
A battle victory in deed. Too bad with that, you capitulated the war to the GOP for years to come.
Really, job well done people.
2
Pence has trouble putting a sentence together. It’s Warren that will do the shredding.
12
Cute take. Pence is the least threatening, least appealing candidate of all time. Combined with his cowardice under Trump, he makes Mitt Romney look like George Clooney.
13
So you are agreeing that Trump is corrupt and inept. I'd love to see Pence campaign on his foreign policy successes.
11
Bill Taylor may in time be regarded as the John Dean of this impeachment inquiry. The man seems to me to be the quintessential professional diplomat. Thank you, Mr. Taylor, for shedding light on what really happened in this whole scandal.
15
If Clinton or Obama had pressured a foreign leader to investigate a Republican, would the response have been an impeachment inquiry? Or would it have been a storm of faked evidence, lying so-called 'witnesses' or 'participants,' followed by threats of civil unrest and armed insurrection?
The Republicans don't want to just rule as a single-Party government. They want the United States to look and act as if the Confederacy had won the war. Insurrection and violence would be rife, and the United States would be treated by the world as a larger and more dangerous (i.e., nuclear-equipped) former Yugoslavia, tearing itself apart because they don't know any other way to rally their people than to get them to hate others. It's the Milosevic solution they want, nothing less. Do YOU want that?
16
The Republicans in the House will stoop to anything in order to preserve Trump and his zealots no matter how immoral or unethical, not to mention criminal and irresponsible. So what if one rationale after another collapses under the weight of simple facts. Given that Trump, although an unmatched egotist, in the end serves the geopolitics of Putin, the current situation is so wild that we all must be having one of George Castanza
‘S bad dreams.
3
Any Republican member of Congress who still defends Trump should have their bank records subpoenaed, because they are either on the Russian payroll, or don’t care about saving our democracy, or both.
20
@GimmeSomeTruth Where does the NRA get money for political donations. So much slime, so little time.
1
Why do the Republicans feel they have to defend Trump? He has all but destroyed the credibility of the Republican Party.
He has no legislative agenda they must pass as he simply has no agenda except for building a wall by taking money from the military, his favorite branch government, and even then it can't get it done.
He is a habitual liar. Believes the constitution can be for the most part ignored. Foreign policy is based on momentary whims.
The economy is doing good because business basically ignores him. Why would any businessman pay attention to him? Automobile industry not wanting his changes to mileage rules and now 13 states and counting agreeing with the auto industry.
Doesn't believe in climate change but now there is a non partisan senate committee looking into it as it has dawned on most that there is problem, and if not a problem a definite concern.
Republicans are defending a guy who is not even a Republican he just told them he was and they bought into the lie.
GOP must now stand for Gullible Old Party
9
@John H - Why do the Republicans feel they have to defend Trump?
They have to. They are defending themselves.
Not just their jobs but their own way of life. Trump is not anomaly. Lying, cheating, breaking/bending the rules, self-dealing, self-serving its all part of the Republican personality type.
I've known lots of people like Trump. All were Republicans. Just with less money. All were aggrieved. All were owed something. All claimed to work hard while no one else did. All lied and exaggerated.
They have to defend Trump. They're him and he's them.
4
It’s simple, they are career politicians who are bought and sold by big money and corporate interests. They’ve boxed themselves into a corner and have no where to go. They have to cling to the ship, even if it goes down.
1
One more bold, brazen, ALL-CAPS lie. Somebody is counting, but it is not Lindsay & The Republicans (worst rock band ever).
3
This is as if someone handed trump a shovel and he is vigorously digging his own grave while his Republican enablers stand by and cheer him on. The truth is always is the truth and it keeps coming back to the surface no matter how many layers of lies and fake news you try and cover it up with.
7
So the Trump "Administration" is lying. What else is new?
4
Look, Mr. Trump is a businesman and a deal maker. The presidential gig is strictly a side thing. So, feel lucky and quit whining !
3
Trump as a deal maker is plenty to whine about especially as he, Jared, and Ivanka intertwine their personal financial interests with America’s foreign policy. Worse than a barrel of snakes to unravel.
1
So now Democrats have resorted to calling the President of Ukrain a liar.
The absurd manifests itself into the insane.
Great timing D's.
Right before the 2020 election.
Show everyone how unhinged you've become.
Why not just accept the results of 2016...blame it all on the horrible campaign (and candidate) Hlllary Clinton and move on?
1
Yes, Ivan. All roads lead to Putin.
4
William Taylor, and none of the other Trump-appointee diplomats testifying that the administration has been lying are Democrats.
4
This is your defense of Trump? Sounds like you'd throw a brick to a drowning man.
6
Trump and his fellow Republicans are flailing with stupid arguments to reassure their gullible base. When this silly "no quid pro quo" thing collapses they'll go on to the next one, and the NYT and other traditional media will continue to be dragged along in their wake.
1
Mary McCarthy once said of Lillian Hellman, "every word she writes is a lie, including “and” and “the.”
I think the same can be said of every word Trump utters.
10
A permanent cease-fire has been established in Syria.
Can we please move on?
No such as “permanent”’in that part of the world!
"Move on," " Get over it, " "Period," " Full stop. " All rhetorical tools designed to end discussion. When your argument has merit, you want the discussion to continue.
2
No.
1. You only think there is a cease fire because you heard Donald Trump say so. But Trump lies with every statement he makes. One would need something plausible.
2. Even a real cease fire has zero to do with Trump’s impeachment
3
"..Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, and Kurt D. Volker, then the State Department’s special envoy to Ukraine, were working with Mr. Giuliani to draft a statement for Mr. Zelensky to deliver.."
and Rudy, the personal attorney to Donny who ordered Micky to withhold, claims he didn't know!
Everyone knew the lyrics of "Getting $391 Million Back On Track", but the songwriter?
Only the braindead hooked-up to Fox News can tolerate that fantastical stretching of imagination.
2
I’m a liberal Democrat, but I really don’t want to see this country run by only one party. I think it’s very valuable to hear points of view on many sides before making decisions that will affect a lot of people. However, when the President and other Republicans continue to lie, grandstand, and blame others for their own misdeeds, even when it’s obvious what’s really going on, it’s difficult to take anything they say seriously.
12
So, the Ukrainians knew it was being held up in August, but didn't know WHY it was being held up until September?
It seems the timing doesn't really make any difference (whether there was a clear quid pro quo in August or September), but I can still imagine a bunch of Republicans trying to spin something out of this timing.
Can't you?
3
They knew of the aid freeze by definition because the money didn't show up.
6
I am so thankful Democrats took back the House and for the incredible investigative journalists.
11
I don't understand Republicans who say that Trump blackmailing Ukraine isn't worse than Watergate. It's way worse. This scandal just doesn't have a catchy name yet--could someone please think of one?
5
@Danielle Ukrainegate.
@Danielle Read it somewhere else...Yes, Ukraine.
Trump practically flunked out of the business program at the University of Pennsylvania (he lasted 2 years before quitting and going home to daddy).
Shucks, if he had it to do again he could study law, since the degree could especially come in handy now.
(On second thought, he'd be using his law knowledge to commit even more felonies than he already has....)
4
I cannot get enough! Liars confronted with the evidence. Documents!
4
Lies on top of lies on top of more lies. This has been Trump's life style since he was a kid. And people thought he would change? Far as I'm concerned there was ample evidence that he was not concerned with the country's best interest since the day of his inauguration. He failed to adequately staff the admin, hired incompetent people, made a total disgrace of himself by stating that he believed a Russian dictator more than the US govt's intelligence agencies. Far as I was concerned, that was sufficient evidence he was incapable of carrying out presidential duties. His cabinet is a bunch of wealth toadies none of him have the fortitude to speak up against his policies.
4
Another Trump and company defense bites the dust!
Excellent investigative journalism, NYT. Thank you and keep on tracking. This goes to all the brave truth seekers in the news media.
5
Republicans are trying to cling to power for as long as they can through whatever means. They seem less and less interested in doing anything to help the citizen of this country and more and more interested in keeping Trump in power no matter the consequence. They have forgotten they are public servants not Trumps protectors. The members of Trumps team that communicated with Ukraine, covered up the phone call and are now spinning the truth of what happened are all coconspirators in this very criminal behavior. The crazy thing is they are doing all of this because Trump believes conspiracy theories and wanted to get Zelensky to publicly validate this fantasy. Even if he doesn't think there will ever be any real dirt he would have ammunition (like Hillary's emails) for sewing distrust in the opponent and firing up his base in the election against any democrat but obviously he was most worried about Biden.
3
Has Trump ever done anything inconsistent with what Putin would want?
6
@Bob Schneider -- apparently not, since Putin has yet to sign any contract for Moscow Trump Towers.
3
These details are muddying up a very clear story.
Trumps phone call summary laid out evidence all Americans could easily grasp.
Chasing down minutiae is great journalism but also makes for cluttered messaging.
Brevity and clarity will seal the deal.
I think when Congress appropriates money, we need to have some record of it being dispersed? Who was holding it and where was it at? Who is watching the checkbook? (Or does it not work that way?)
2
On one side, witnesses and whistleblowers whose stories don’t change and align pretty much perfectly with one another, on the other, an almost daily change in reasoning, excuses and stories.
9
@Gregitz - It was great seeing Mitch McConnell fail to recall the president having a conversation with him about the Ukraine call.
For all, who hear, but don't see, or see, but don't hear:
The military assistance for Ukraine post 2014 was held back and held back again under Obama and Clinton. Eventually, a small quantity of night vision goggles, etc. was delivered and a few trainers to help with the newly created National Guard were assigned as well.
Everything was deemed to remain of defensive nature; even the Javelins (a hundred maybe?) were classified, as such, on the assumption, that the Russians would roll their tanks into Ukraine.
1
President Trump is doing what be was elected to do. Those who would undo the results of the election are doing more to hurt those who elected him by taking away their votes, than Trump himself.
Trump is the hand of those who elected him doing what he promised them he would do with the levers of government.
1
Violate the Constitution?
If that's what you expected, no one has that right. NO ONE.
And he swore an OATH to defend the Constitution--that is, the country--against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
6
@John
But doesn't this argument equally apply to all the Democratic Congressional Reps who were elected to check Trump, sometimes even elected on explicit promises to impeach and remove Trump?
If we're not supposed to get excited about Trump "doing what he was elected to do," then why are Trump supporters so riled up about Congress doing what it's been elected to do?
6
@Cindy L
He has a Constitutional duty to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed". Those laws include our corruption laws relative to Biden getting the prosecutor fired and our Investigation treaty with the Ukraine.
Having the Biden matter investigated is his Constitutional duty and that does not go away because Biden is seeking the Presidential nomination. Also, all laws that Congress makes must be pursuant to the Constitution that requires the President to faithfully execute the laws.
The bottom line as I see it is that an honest admin is required to investigate Biden, and in that this is an international investigation, the President has to facilitate with with the Ukraine head of state. What am I missing?
Everyone who has republican senators and congresspeople must contact their representatives and let him/her know you want him/her to stand up for our republic and thoroughly hear all evidence. No more party over country.
3
This fine article mentions that the Trump-Zelensky phone call took half an hour. The summary of the call takes just a few minutes to read. I think that means we all need to hear the actual tape. The transcript probably omitted entire sentences which might add mightily to our understanding.
Also, no one can know for sure when the Ukrainians began to know their defense funding was being withheld. But the president's words can be known and understood by anyone to be an ostensible billionaire begging for someone to give him a dossier on his opponent for free. At first I couldn't understand why he didn't just go hire some company to do an investigation into the theories he was being presented with by Giuliani and others.
Then l thought, it was because he didn't want an actual investigation. He wanted a foreign country with opaque practices, as he was being told they operated under, to make up transcripts or testimony that could be quoted in American newspapers. To me it's clear he wanted someone to manufacture evidence. Donald Trump knows better than anyone that once something appears in a newspaper or on TV, no retraction, no subsequent reporting, will take the original "breaking news story" away from people's minds.
I voted Republican for almost 40 years until they presented us with Donald Trump as a candidate. I don't think the Republican Party realizes how many people have stopped voting for their candidates.
6
If we give aid, we have the right to attach strings. This has gone on forever, and will continue...if there was nothing at all for Biden and family to worry about then this would be a moot point. Obviously, something was there and the dems are doing everything to cover this up.
2
Some strings are legal, others are not.
Blackmailing a country for personal gain is not legal.
2
@Simon
This doesn't even make enough sense to be wrong.
If there was some dirt on Hunter that could cling to Biden, there's a baker's dozen of the most recognizable names in party, any one of which might emerge as the de facto head of the party, that would be more than happy to see something from Biden's past put his presidential run to an early end. The party could thin the field, concentrate its resources, and move on. What would be the value in going all in on a precarious defense of a dude who isn't even the sure-win for the next leadership position?
There is one party that's committed itself to a do-or-die defense of a single candidate, regardless of what they learn about him - so much so that the party has altered its own campaign rules to ensure he's their boy - but it isn't the Donkey Party.
In the NATIONAL interest, sure. But not in Trump’s personal interest, as is the case here. And actually in direct contravention of US national security interests by hurting Ukraine’s ability to defend itself against Russia. This could be considered treason, or at least do little to rebut the notion that Trump is Prut’s puppet.
2
Wow, we have a tremendous amount of diplomatic work to do in 2021, or possibly an insurmountable amount of work to do in 2025.
3
Forgotten are the recordings of phone conversations between Trump and various officials, now tucked away in double top secret computer vaults.
Get the unredacted transcripts and calls. That will settle all of this.
If Nixon had to turn over the tapes, then Trump has to turn over the "tapes".
4
Ukrainian diplomats may have become aware in August that military aid was being withheld, but Ukraine President Zelensky had already agreed to President Trump’s request for investigation during the July 25 phone call. As the article notes, in October Zelensky said during an October news conference that “There was no blackmail.” He added as evidence that he “had no idea the military aid was held up.” This indicates Trump did not threatened to withhold military aid. There was no need; Zelensky readily agreed to Trump request.
Ambassador Taylor now asserts that Trump made the delivery of military aid to Ukraine contingent on Zelenskiy’s making a public announcement that he was opening an investigation into the Biden/Burisma relationship. But Taylor’s allegation is based on what other diplomats told him occurred during conversations in which Taylor was excluded. In other words, it is hearsay. Taylor said Ambassador Sondland told him Zelensky agreed to “make a public statement in an interview with CNN.” Taylor thinks Zelensky was pressured even though he testified Sondland told him he assured Zelenskiy there was no quid pro quo. However, the military aid money was released in September although the promised CNN interview never took place.
2
Yes it’s all true that he did wrong.
But his supporters couldn’t care less.
And as it is not a crime what he did, he won’t be prosecuted.
And he won’t be impeached either as GOP do look away until November 2020.
3
I guess the lesson the GOP has taken from the Watergate hearings was not that it's bad to have a criminal president, but rather, it's important to control the messaging about the criminal president.
2
Let's not forget that the quid pro quo is a twist of the knife that Mr. Trump had already stuck into the Constitution. It's on him now to make the case - with details, not just with the usual bluster - that the investigations he asked Ukraine to undertake were in U.S. public interest. Otherwise he was using his position to solicit personal political help from a foreign country, full stop.
3
A former temporary officer of Trump's justice department stated this defense of Trump with these words on Fox. "Abuse of power is not a crime." Trump's lawyers are arguing in court that not only can't you indict a sitting President, you can't even investigate a sitting President. The justice department defends it's policy, not a law, of not indicting a sitting President by stating that Congress has the ability to impeach a corrupt President. But Trump, at the same time, is stating that he does not need to co-operate with any impeachment process that he deems "not fair."
If this is allowed to stand think what it implies. Any future President will have the ability to commit any abuse of power, any crime, and their will be no ability of Congress or the courts to do anything about it. Dictatorship 101.
4
@KJ Peters - That is what his lawyers are arguing but the last court to shoot them down basically said the DOJ memo against indicting a sitting president has no basis in law.
1
I thought the call was in July. You know, the month before August.
1
I don't think the claim here is that these revelations prove Trump laid out a quid pro quo deal in the phone call.
The claim is that the Whistleblower said the Ukraine understood that the delay of funds was conditional on looking for dirt on Biden as early as the first week in August.
The Trump administration said that the Whistleblower is unreliable. They said that nobody in the Ukraine knew what was holding up aid until September.
These revelations suggest that, once again, the Whistleblower's account was accurate and the Trump administrations claims were false.
3
The call was in July. Ukraine, you say, learned about it in August. Again, as far as the call which is at the center of this thing, no quid pro quo possible.
4
@Peter: the threat is only one side of the quid pro quo. The aide is the other. Since the aide wasn’t released until well after the call, as things were starting to get hot for Trump, I’d say the possibility of a quid pro quo remains. In fact I’d say it’s probable.
29
@Peter
Sorry no cigar for you.
It does not matter whether or not Ukraine understood they were being extorted. It only matters that Trump tried to extort them. To go further even if he never tried to hold up the aid he would still have committed an impeachable offense for asking them to investigate something that Trump and his team made up.
80
We are all learning this is deeper than one phone call.
54
Let us not lose sight of the fact that Mike Pence was directly involved in dealing with Ukraine at the time the extortion was being pursued. He was to be a beneficiary of the 2020 campaign dirt just as Mr. Trump was, and he should not be let of the hook in the impeachment process.
34
Trump is just playing with the media and the Dems - he's actually pretty good at this game of politics. Although his style is a bit unconventional. Its really too bad that the NYTs and Democrats like Schiff don't hold the same high standards for themselves as they do Trump (or anyone else they don't like for that matter).
Trump's not going anywhere but even if he did the Democrats are unlikely to gain the WH any time soon (as in 2020).
2
What Trump is good at is being a crook. If you think that makes him a good politician, then your estimation of what politics is about is pretty grim. If a Democrat had done a 10th of what Trump has obviously done, I imagine you’d be singing an entirely different tune. It’s hard to imagine how a republic can go on with a major Political party exercising this kind of blatant hypocrisy, and on such an operatic scale. Either the rules are for everybody or there for nobody. You have to choose.
5
@DED: I didn’t notice Schiff mocking disabled persons or bragging about groping women, for starters. Schiff has to dig a hole all the way to Australia to find a measure of Trump’s standards...
3
@DED: As Ronald Reagan once said to Jimmy Carter, "there you go again...!"
You continue to figure that Trump has been in the driver's seat all along. and his re-election in '20 is as good as in the bag. Right?
WRONG!
If this were a Democrat, you and your like-minded ilk would gleefully be saying how much of a corrupt, lying do-and-so HE is! You couldn't have it happen fast enough, head on a spit.
Sorry, pal! But, like an overly greedy, cocky card sharp, Trump can and will overplay his hand.
Wait for it.
1
I do enjoy this concept: Trump tweeting into the Stage 5 hurricane.
6
For Heaven's sake, what are the Dems waiting for? The more corroborating witnesses they call, the longer this drags on, and more deadened everyone becomes to their testimony. Vote to authorize impeachment already! If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well It were done quickly.
4
@Robin Friday,
the more careful and deliberate the investigation, the more airtight the case when it gets to the right-wing SCOTUS, such that even they would not be able to ignore it.
2
@Robin Friday - Every day, Trump makes things worse for himself. Claiming that McConnell told him the call was "perfect, innocent" didn't sit well with McConnell.
It’s crystal clear that not only are there solid grounds for Trump’s impeachment, but VP Pence as well. Not to mention the removal of Sec. Pompeo and jailing of Mulvaney, Kushner and what passes for “Ambassadors” , Sondland, Volker, Cornstein and many more. Further, those “major” Trump re-election donors/ bundlers like Sheldon Adelson, Stephen Ross and Ronald Lauder, to name a few, should be unmasked. What’s their angle in getting Trump re-elected anyway? Specially after the many deaths he’s caused. It really is a den of unscrupulous crooks.
9
The more Trump talks, denies and colors his "truth" about this entire ordeal, the clearer and brighter the picture becomes.
When a person waltzes through much of life based on lies, deceptions, and being a brassy bully, the assumption remains that a person can talk his or her way out of any sticky wicket.
And thus the case it appears with this guy.
He only knows how to brow beat and manufacture the truth rather than coming clean about any questionable business, personal or political practices used.
It's gotten to the point where this situation has to be shut down, once and for all.
Soon enough,the facts alone will speak for themselves and will become so overwhelming, they will drown out all other noise, excuses or denials.
7
Trump's claims of quidless quos follows his typical pattern of confessing so gradually that his supporters think he is just being honest and everyone else is mean for attacking him.
This time, however, he has not only gone too far, but the other failures of his foreign and domestic policy are just too glaring to cover up.
7
Trump didn't "bully Ukraine’s leader into carrying out investigations for Mr. Trump’s political benefit". He bullied the Ukraine to lie for Mr. Trump's political benefit --- there was nothing to investigate.
4
Arrest Trump Now.
Americans are not safe with Trump, his family and his associates in office. Their allegiance is to Russia, power, money and ego.
16
The more Trump talks, denies and colors his "truth" about this entire ordeal, the clearer and brighter the picture becomes.
I guess when a person is afforded to go through much of life that has been based on lies, deceptions, and being a brassy bully, the assumption remains that a person can talk his or her way out of any sticky wicket. And thus the case with this guy. He only knows how to brow beat and manufacture the truth rather than ever coming clean about any questionable business, personal or political practices used.
It's gotten to the point where this guy will be shut down soon, once and for all.
After awhile, the facts alone will speak for themselves and will drown out all other noise, excuses or denials.
6
They can bob and weave all they want.
It’s beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump held up the 391M and enjoyed doing it. DJT clearly gets pleasure out of other people’s pain.
Ukrainians- can’t be bothered
Kurds- who cares- not an attractive name anyway.
Who’s next?- who wants to find out ? Where is the ejection button for this “ President “.
We need to act now...now...now!
6
What, the Ukrainians weren't aware of the Congressional vote for the aid package? Not seeing it means it is held up. Just like if you mother told you she was going to give you $50 to tie you over till next month and that she gave the check to your father who is going to give it you. When you don't see the check you know dad's got it. The question is why?
3
How many members of the Trump mob have retained criminal defense attorneys and are currently cooperating with authorities, seeking to avoid the most severe of consequences.
Any with good sense, not seeking to miss the opportunity and later be irrelevant. "We already heard that tale, don't you have anything of value we don't have? Too bad. Didn't you see the tell by date".
Lying out loud or in writing at this point is suicidal for underlings. We are about to be hit with a torrent, a real horror show of deception exposed.
1
I no longer think it is enough to impeach & remove him, he, and everyone around him must face a formal investigation, like the Mueller Investigation, then indictment and a Federal Trial.
Then imprison them for the longest possible sentences, the people watching must understand you cannot use the US Government for personal purposes or campaign furtherance.
10
The aid was held up for couple of months and released without any strings attached - what's the big deal?. All those countries are full of corruption everybody knows it and Zelesky was elected to hopefully clean it up. Now if Trump Jr takes a job in North Korea without any field expertise for millions of dollars you think Adam Schiff would question it? exactly what Biden reportedly did. Now having father as the VP of course this was no corruption right?.
3
Attempted offenses are still offenses. “He lived. No murder!”
1
@Larry - Trump Jr. is already jetting around on our tax dollars and using his father's position to enrich himself. Not to mention the fact that he's been meddling in foreign affairs.
@DR They are all multi-millionaires and don't need any more. VP Biden stated that unless Ukraine removed the prosecutor investigation his son's company Ukraine would not get a 'billion' dollar loan guarantee. BTW how did Joe earn 16 million after leaving office 3 years ago? just asking about your hero.
It should be obvious, the trumpers do not want “evidence” regarding Biden, but want the Ukraine to manufacture evidence to back their ridiculous assertions.
9
the phone conversation was in July.
2
@Ralphie
Doesn’t make arms for political dirt any less wrong.
3
@Dunn Arceneaux There isn't any evidence of a quid pro quo. What we have are dems selectively leaking info, sometimes 2nd or 3rd hand. They won't let the Repubs in the meetings or see transcripts.
And the fact remains, Joe Biden has a lot of explaining to do. All Trump did was ask about Biden's activities -- it was Biden who committed the corrupt activities.
This report adds to the credibility of the administration's quid-pro-quo argument because it suggests that Mr. Zelensky had no reason to doubt that the "quid" was coming, regardless of his response to the "quo".
But it speaks only to what the Ukranians knew, not to what they might have had reason to expect.
Key questions: Had Americans at any level in any branch of government given the Ukranians a date prior to July 25th to expect transfer of the aid money?
If so, and if the Ukranians followed up when the date had passed, what were they told about the delay, and how credible would the Ukranians have regarded that response, given prior dealings with the U.S.?
1
Quid pro quo is irrelevant. It has become the “collusion” of the investigation. The crime is in seeking the assistance or a thing of value from a foreign government in a federal election. Whether there is payment is irrelevant. Don’t allow Trump to frame the issue in a manner which dilutes his guilt.
3
@Paul Gallagher
Key questions answered: The Trump administration itself notified Congress it was releasing the aid twice prior toJuly 25th.
The first time was in February. When the aid didn't materialize, everybody was told it was delayed by red-tape. A new announcement was made that the aid would be released in May. Obviously, that date was busted as well.
When Trump quietly put the freeze order on, they'd already delayed the release of funds twice. In both cases, the Ukraine and Congress were officially told that there was no shift in policy, aid was on its way, and there were no strings attached to it.
What these revelations now confirm is that, as of early August, officials in the Ukraine were aware that the official story was not true and the administration's Shadow State Department of lawyers, hustlers, and shady business types had made it clear that aid would be held up, even denied (if they had managed to hold on until the end of September without attracting the attention of Trump allies in Congress, the approval of aid would have lapsed), without the Biden investigation.
1
@MJB So if (1) the first expected transfer date was five months before the call, (2) no money was sent before the call, and (3) there were interim exchanges offering what must have sounded to the Ukranians like flimsy excuses, there is (4) undoubtedly someone in Kiev willing to say that he told the incoming Zelensky that the Americans were stalling the aid, and he should devote himself to determining the real reason why on the July 25th call.
Correct?
1
A sordid tale but likely the tip of the iceberg. Trump uses a poor country like Ukraine to get dirt on a political opponent. Imagine the amount of graft that is happening in all the rich countries he has a chance to shake down.
7
Seems like the GOP will have to find another lame excuse for the quid pro quo.
2
Zelensky and Trump can claim there was no pressure nor wrong doing until the cows come home but those pesky tangible communications speaks for itself.
The more Trump and Zelensky try to dig their way out of this hole, the deeper the hole becomes, pulling them in farther and farther down.
5
Zelensky is the victim here, and he *did not* bend to the pressure and did not ultimately do what Trump wanted.
Of course he is going to say he didn’t feel pressured, he still has to work with this administration for the time being, and he has to look strong at home. However, he really isn’t a co-conspirator in this.
1
@Marge Keller
Is Zelenskyy really a perpetrator in this? He never publicly agreed to any investigation. I think, in this case, he’s one TV personality who can actually determine right from wrong.
2
While Trump and his administration has failed in the past to learn this old maxim, they’re learning it now, in spades. “ Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!”
4
Republican Reps. are standing outside the closed doors while these interviews are occurring, trying to intimidate those appearing to testify. Their out right lies and bully tactics will not deflect the truth from coming out. Trump has clearly abused his position as president for personal gains despite his, and their many claims to the contrary! Their failure to uphold the oath to uphold the US Constitution before all else is an act of treason! Their "deep state" claims are nonsense! They are the shams, the fakes or frauds in this entire scenario.
7
". . . the president and his allies have had a simple response: There could not have been any quid pro quo because the Ukrainians did not know the assistance had been blocked."
Yeah sure, tell it to the jury pal . . .
I am utterly speechless by either the arrogance or the ignorance of this guy and his allies to claim and assume that intelligent, diligent, and sharp individuals would or could actually believe such an insipid response.
10
Look, trump ought to be removed according to the 25th Amendment, Clause 4. But this article is fuzzy. All over the place. Not clear. NYT and Dems are not making a convincing argument. I wish they could, but they're not.
1
It may be that your reading comprehension is fuzzy, Shirley.
It's pretty clear that Donald was demanding political dirt for his 2020 campaign - whether it existed or not - in exchange for American taxpayer dollars.
5
@Shirley
This may help clear a few things up:
Ukrainian leader felt Trump pressure before taking office.
"More than two months before the phone call that launched the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump..."
May 7 in Kyiv " ... the group spent most of the three-hour discussion talking about how to navigate the insistence from Trump and his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, for a probe and how to avoid becoming entangled in the American elections, according to three people familiar with the details of the meeting."
https://www.apnews.com/b048901b635f423db49a10046daaf8a8
3
That Pence delivered said and or heard the quid pro quo as stated here as Taylor's testimony means, wait for it,
Here comes the first female President, i.e., Miss Nancy "with the laughing face"
7
It would be nice if Trump could go one day without lying.
4
Of course Ukraine knew of the freeze.
Every word Trump utters is a lie.
8
Zelensky reminds me of a battered wife. Afraid to speak up because he knows he has to go back home and live next to Putin.
Anyway this does not hinge on if or when the Ukranians learned that the aid was being held up. I am very troubled about Pence's role and the prospect of him rising to the White House
23
Sondland's "Trump is a businessman" holding back until he gets something! The Harvey Weinstein School of Business.
10
Truly obscene. Poor Ukraine. They want to become a democracy. The people elected a non-politician to help them accomplish that. They want to join the EU and forever sever the malign influence of Russia. And this is how they're rewarded? Caught in a web between an uber-corrupt Russia and the most corrupt US president (and administration) in history? Shame. Shame. Shame.
23
We're about to hit "I did it. So what?" on the Trump Scandal Meter.
14
@Curious Get over it, sounds familiar?
Trump is helping Putin reconstitute the Soviet Union.
And you thought Trump didn't believe in constitution.
21
@Robert Henry Eller I agree 100%! What Ukraine is going to go through is going to be sad!
6
@Robert Henry Eller
Yes I wonder if Trump believes that Ukraine can be split up between Russia and Ukraine just as the Kurdish homeland is now being split up between Russia, Turkey and Syria. Trump thinks it's messy but oh well, they're no angels either- Get used to it!
This needs to be our mantra- because it's already theirs
All Roads Lead to Putin
4
@FerCry'nTears
Meant to say split up Ukraine between Russia and Hungary
2
Right down to the man and woman, the elected Republicans on Capitol Hill have caught themselves in a very bad place by giving, not just their unwarranted support to the Constitution-wrecking, narcissistic, novice bad judgment of Donald Trump, but also giving him their grossly sycophantic worship.
From outside the Capitol building, one can almost hear them whispering among themselves, again and again “If Trump goes down, we all go down.”
The Republicans on Capitol Hill are extremely desperate now, and they are prepared to word-spin the destruction of both the Constitution and American Democracy to save their platinum-grade health insurance and their generous lifetime pensions and their safely chauffeured rides home in those shiny black Suburbans idling outside at this very moment.
20
Lying liars and the lies they tell. This crew of 3 amigos, Trump toadies, Giuliani goons, whatever you want to call them, are unable to keep their lies clear. The more we learn, the more they lie to try and fit the latest revelation.
Bring in more witnesses. Let's get to the bottom of this scheme.
I fully expect Trump, Giuliani and Pompeo to lie if they are ever compelled to testify. That whole dance will be a show.
I do wonder if they would have the guts to lie when charges are brought to the Senate. That will be their day in court to proudly proclaim their innocence. By then the facts against them will have mounted and Pelosi will have a pretty good case I would think.
They need to stop lying and take this seriously.
8
But the adoptions! The poor Russian children affected by adoption policy! Months & years later this Administration will stop at nothing to lie through their teeth when the truth will inevitably be revealed.
Where are you weak Republicans in Congress?
6
You can tell Trump is managing his defense strategy because only a sociopath could claim that his victim didn't know he was being extorted ; therefore, No Extortion!
11
The evidence is plain and clear. This is not only an abuse of office, it is criminal. Imagine if we found out that the President instructed the FBI, without cause, to investigate his political rivals for the sole purpose of legitimizing unfounded conspiracy theories. But with Ukraine, or any other foreign entity, the implications are more damning: it means Ukraine, as a co-conspirator with the President, now has leverage over the President and can use that leverage in the future: "If you don't do this for us, we'll tell people that we only investigated Biden to get you re-elected."
And for those of you in the GOP who are shrugging in tandem with Mulvaney -- "So what? right?" -- just remember this: YOU might be the target of Trump's skullduggery next if you cross swords. You would be foolish to think Trump is somehow above this. (Would it not surprise you if he asked Ukraine to investigate Mitt Romney, too?) Don't fear the Democrats; fear the "stable genius" you have been feeding since 2016.
5
If our Republic can be saved, we owe a debt of gratitude to the people who work at the NYT.
22
No you don’t!!! They brought you Trump in the first instance! I remember during the campaigns how he was plastered all over their front pages. It gave him credibility and emboldened his hateful rhetoric. Even his base started quoting the New York Times, because if it was reported and covered in such a “liberal” bastion, then surely Trump was legitimate and right. No. In the words of Michelle Wolfe, they “created the monster” and now they profit off him!!!
3
Trump has abused power, made illegal campaign contributions, used his 501C3 illegally, paid off porn stars, appointed incompetent, self-serving criminals to his cabinet, abandoned allies, embraced dictators, scape-goated minorities, embraced racists, polluted our environment, eliminated protections for endangered species, attempted to remove health insurance from 20M people, pressured the Federal Reserve, pressured foreign governments to act on his behalf, exaggerated his wealth to obtain loans, artificially diminished his wealth to avoid taxes, kept minorities from renting his apartments, made a fortune my defying the emoluments clause, defied congressional subpoenas, engaged in blatant nepotism, and obstructed justice. Also he is probably a major money launderer. Come on already - let’s get rid of him. The courts should act swiftly as we are in the midst of a national crisis that must be rectified post haste. And the Congress should use their power to imprison individuals who defy congressional subpoenas. Every day Trump remains President horrible and, in some cases, irreversible damage is being done to our country and world.
16
The American taxpayers are paying dearly monetarily to a bunch of liars for lying to us every minutes, not to mention that their lies put us in great danger physically, governmentally and constitutionally.
6
All of this demonstrates the mendacity of trump*s “foreign policy.” But it overshadows the fact that one of the justifications the administration points to is a cockamamie debunked notion about Ukraine, rather than Russia being behind election ‘16 manipulation...AND the lunatic pursuit of a nonexistent DNC server. It is this insanity that congressional Republicans are employing every possible rhetorical contortion to defend. Fie!!!
6
Nice country you got there. Be a real shame if you didn't have enough money to keep the Russians out...
16
Trump is a disgrace to the office and to America. He's also a liar and will hopefully be thrown out come November 2020.
8
The problem with lying is that it is hard to stop and it is hard to remember the story from one day to the next.
Next we will probably hear that the money wasn't 'held up' because it had never clearly been scheduled for delivery.
3
Another example of Trump resembling the man accused of borrowing and breaking his neighbor’s jug. His defenses, asserted in the alternative: (1) I never borrowed the jug; (2) If I did borrow the jug, it was broken when I borrowed it; (3) If I did borrow the jug, it was neither broken when I borrowed it nor when I returned it.
4
I didn't vote for Trump buy he is the duly elected President. If the un-elected or even elected people in Washington want to reverse an election, the least they can do, is do it in the plain sight of the American people. This craziness congress is doing in the dark is not good for the Country at all or any future president of this great nation of ours.
So now we are working with someone who appeared in his current position in the middle of June and is now embarking on the impeachment of a President due to a call that was made 4 weeks later? Seriously?
3
You don’t seem to understand the danger that Trump presents. He’s a loose cannon. Given his withholding money from Ukraine, and then lying about it, how can we be sure what transpired in his call with Erdogan just prior to Trump’s decision to abandon the Kurds? Do you understand why the Framers included the possibility of impeachment in the Constitution?
37
@Matt: Lol. The man’s name is William Taylor. He is called a witness. Impeachment, I hope will be based on the constitution and Trump’s oath to this country. It seems that the habit is to depersonalize the situation to detach Trump from any responsibility or culpability.
36
@Matt
The purpose of impeachment isn't "to reverse an election." Its purpose is to investigate a possible abuse of power or violation of the law. The House would be derelict in its duty if it didn't investigate under these circumstances. I wasn't in favor of this investigation until so many indications of wrongdoing became public. Now, with the abandonment of the Kurds and the catering to a Hungarian strongman on the part of the Trump administration, I'm increasingly worried, indeed terrified, about the damage that can be done to the United States by an impulsive, uninformed, and narcissistic President in the next year. It should be obvious to McConnell and other Republican politicians that they can't control Trump. Why they continue to believe they need him to preserve their "brand" is beyond me. The House is not doing anything "in the dark;" Taylor's damning fifteen page statement yesterday is available for you to read in this newspaper.
808
Great reporting. Now we need testimony to corroborate it. Also, I wish that every bit of reporting on this issue would also include a sentence or two to remind the reader that the executive branch has no business holding up funding that Congress has approved. That alone is illegal!
9
Trump’s most loyal supporters in the senate have recently backed away from their usual full throated defense of Trump. The silence from the rest of the Republicans in congress is deafening. It’s no wonder Trump recently begged Republicans to fight harder. Most have all but disappeared. As the evidence continues to pile up up exposing lie after lie, it’s difficult to see how resignation or conviction in the senate can be avoided. I mean I have to believe there are 20 human beings in the Republican senate who couldn’t look their children in the eye if they voted to acquit.
4
@Richard Frank Lindsey Graham, for some reason, is still as "full throated" as usual. He even stuck up for Trump regarding his use of the word "lynching" to describe the impeachment process.
1
There certainly *has* been an increasingly conspicuous lack of noise and outrage lately from the a Republicans in Congress. I’ve noticed it getting quieter and quieter the last couple of weeks...
Hmmm!
1
@Richard Frank
From your mouth to God's ear.
1
The US deserves Trump for we should have stopped him long ago. He gets my vote come 2020 so he can finish us off.
Not that my vote counts. NY goes blue. Only about 6 states determine the winner or to rephrase the Electoral College chooses the president, the people are an afterthought. Just think how much better off the world would be if we were to become a minor player.
Bottom line is that Trump will never tell a straight, truthful story about this or anything else; it's doubtful that his mangled mind even knows what the straight story is. His ever-morphing explanations of why is innocent, while entertaining, are completely useless as evidence. I'm not sure they should even be reported as serious news, but I am completely certain that the Republicans need to stop defending his explanations or trying to make them seem rational, and instead let the chips fall where they may.
2
Trump wanted more than an investigation; he wanted the Ukrainians to declare guilt. They investigated Biden and son previously and found no wrongdoing so Trump's request to investigate had already been me. But Trump didn't like the conclusion. Implicit in this request to investigate again is that the Ukrainians would have to be dishonest as Trump if they wanted foreign aid, i.e. fabricate guilt where none existed to please/accommodate Trump.
7
So who was holding the $391 Million? Or how does that work, because there must be more?
@rebecca1048
Yesterday’s opening statement by William Taylor (Chief of Mission to Ukraine) outlined his discovery of the withholding of financial aid. An unidentified GAO employee told conference call attendees (including Taylor) the $391million was frozen at the direction of the highest level of government. The employee said the order came from Trump.
1
Great reporting to rebut Trump's claim that the Ukrainians didn't know he'd put a hold on their military aid. Of course, they had to know since it never arrived until Congress intervened last month. But, it's also clear that they were told explicitly of the "quid pro quo" by none other than Mike Pence who is now directly linked to the bribery shakedown of Ukraine. The criminal conspiracy grows every day as does the list of high-ranking Trump administration officials who also deserve to be impeached.
10
First of all, a quid quo pro is not even necessary. Making plans to hire someone to burn down a building is a crime even if the arsonist has not been hired. Trump has participated in a conspiracy to extort political favors from a foreign nation. That in and of itself is a crime.
Secondly and more to the point. The aid to Ukraine was released just two days after the whistleblower complaint was made public. If the administration had done nothing wrong, why was the aid not released much earlier? The fact that the aid was held up in the first place is evidence of a conspiracy.
This was badly needed military aid to assist combat troops in battle. The troops knew they had no weapons. How could a nation with representatives here in Washington not be aware of critical legislation that would assist their war effort?
This needs to be dug out. The Republicans, with this latest specious defense, just opened another can of worms that can be used against Trump. Now the investigation will focus on who know what when and get all that nailed down. More witnesses will be called. Keep talking Trump.
40
@Bruce Rozenblit
Who was holding the aid and who released it?
Where did this “quid pro quo” business come from?
The President has a duty to advance his nation’s interest, not his own, during official phone calls. By no stretch of the imagination would these investigations be at the top of the agenda with Ukraine, which is , after all, under military attack by Russia.
At the top of Trump’s personal agenda, maybe. But not our country’s. He was acting in his interests, not ours. That is what counts. Not this pointless quid pro quo discussion
11
You know there is something more sinister here. The Russians are masters at long range treacherous planning to achieve their objectives. Putin undoubtably soured Trump on Ukraine and I have to conclude he hinted at the possibility of leaning on Ukraine to get Biden’s son thus ensuring a delay in weapons for Ukraine to defend against Russia. In return Trump would owe Russia for this little Biden titbit. Ultimately we drop the Kurds pull out of Syria and Erdogan with his friend Putin march in and take over. So we have a quid pro quo with Ukraine but an even more heinous one between Trump and Putin.
18
The key takeaway: These findings independently corroborate the whistleblower. WB also stated the order came straight from Trump.
8
It sounds very clear that Pence was involved too. The inquiry should include Pence as well as Trump and half his cabinet. President Pelosi would be very ironic.
P.S. Indict and jail Guiliana. He will perjure himself no doubt.
20
I don't care if they did or didn't know. I don't care if they don't want to call it a quid pro quo. It was wrong. Just wrong.
We don't want or need a president that will put lives at stake for his political success. Period.
11
If Trump’s best defense is that the Ukrainians didn’t know they were being blackmailed then he is in serious trouble. It really doesn’t lessen Trump’s culpability if the Ukrainians only found out later. He will probably next argue that the Ukrainians didn’t acquiesce to his demands so it doesn’t matter.
905
@Michael H.
Your last statement will be used by the GOP base to defend Trump. It's the only defense left. Not much of a defense though, but when you have created a man-god, you believe him and not your own eyes.
Non-religious people would never fall for a Trump like figure. It truly takes the religious person to do that.
93
@Djt
Actually, they HAVE opened a "probe". The Ukrainians have kept their part of the bargain:
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/434892-senior-ukrainian-justice-official-says-hes-opened-probe-into-us-election
9
I know lots of religious people who both didn’t vote for Trump and do not like him. While I am not “religious” myself, this kind of thinking can be dangerous. Just ask the Germans of 1938!
Please keep sweeping generalizations like that out your arguments. It’s morally wrong to tar and feather any group as all the same, or all conspiring. Liberals should understand nuance and acceptance.
Thank you!
28
These are mob tactics, pure and simple. Additionally Trump and Guilliani he had help, minimally tacit support from both Pompeo and Barr. I would like to see impeachment inquiries into them as well.
If we are ever going to regain any confidence on the world stage, we need to show that Congress is fulfilling its role as a co equal branch of government.
1008
@joanne
Let's not forget Pence's involvement.
"Mr. Taylor told the impeachment investigators that it was only on the sidelines of a Sept. 1 meeting in Warsaw between Mr. Zelensky and Vice President Mike Pence that the Ukrainians were directly told the aid would be dependent on Mr. Zelensky giving Mr. Trump something he wanted: an investigation into Burisma, the company that had employed Hunter Biden, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s son."
50
@joanne
Barr's support was far more from tacit; he was an active participant. For instance, besides his mention in the call reconstruction, he also flew to Italy to pursue related conspiracy theories.
Pompeo's may yet have been only tacit, but we don't know what role he played besides knowing.
34
@db
Pompeo is not clean. Silence is not golden, in this case.
He knew quite well what Trump was up to, and did nothing, far as we know, to stop it. That makes him complicit.
Add to that his instructions to the State Department employees to not cooperate in the investigation dirties him further still.
He’s not clean. He is deep and dirty in this abuse of power mess.
How low he has fallen since graduating from West Point top of his class.
It is true that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
13
Even if Putin went on Fox News and said, "Trump owes billions to criminal oligarchs here, and we've been washing Russian Mafia money through his casinos and hotels for decades," Trump's Jim-Jones-like cultists would shrug and say, "Heck. . nobody's perfect. Four more years."
Fact-based evidence, are simply not words understood by Trumpists.
1525
@Joe you got that right buddy. 42 percent of Republicans said there is virtually nothing the president could do to lose their approval. Among Republicans who cited Fox News as their primary news source, this number was even higher, at 55 percent. Nearly two-thirds of white evangelicals said Trump has not hurt the dignity of the presidency. By contrast, majorities of all other religious groups said Trump has damaged the image of the office.
148
@Joe ~
Very true.
But I doubt that there will be much more than 63 million or so Trumpites, same as last time.
Hillary actually won with 66 million votes, and indeed if the Dems can get the right additions for 67 million votes, Trump will be trounced.
My 28 year old daughter is convinced that the dedicated Bernie supporters who sat out the election led to Trump's victory.
68
His followers would say, "everyone does it".
l am so sick of hearing that.
81
Just to be clear:
Whether or not there was quid pro quo, he asked a foreign government to find—possibly invent?—dirt on a potential political rival. That in itself is an impeachable offense. The military aid just makes it 100 times worse.
1687
@Mssr. Pleure So you are saying that if I am engaged in corrupt activities overseas, then I should immediately run for office so I can be shielded from any investigation.
Moreover on a technical note, now in 2019 former VP Biden has not won a Democratic nomination as a 2020 Presidential candidate, therefore is not a current political rival. If you replace "current" with "potential" political rival, then ANYONE running for office can be protected from investigations into any alleged crimes.
None of your clarity makes sense.
1
@John Bowman
As usual in the Trump administration. No other administration within the last 40 years has committed felonies so regularly and in the open
51
@John Bowman Perhaps you are being sarcastic, but I'm guessing not. The president is being investigated by three separate House Committees for possible impeachment because of illegal activity. You're the one who needs to "Get over it."
117
First it was there was no solicitation of foreign influence in our election.
Then it was there was no quid pro quo.
Now it's there was no extortion because the Ukraines didn't know they were being extorted.
At every step the GOP moves the goalposts and signals again that it is a lawless party, a criminal conspiracy that will shield Trump's treasonous crimes at all cost.
This not going to end well, because for justice to prevail, an entire American political party will have to be deposed.
1765
@Todd What can you do when 40% of Americans believe in “Law and Order” only when it is directed at the political opposition?
58
@Todd
This is explicitly why I emailed my congressman in the senate and told them I changed my life long affliction from the grand old party - I am embarrassed as an American - therefore I am no longer associated with the Republican Party - it's the person not the party - in my view the GOP is spineless - change is good!
67
@Todd add to that GOP talking points regarding an "unfair process". Its amazing what they will cling to in an effort to dissuade and distract and they do it all at the expense of every American.
35
I cannot imagine where the country would be were it not for the investigative journalists. Thank you.
2269
@Ruby Or without the Democrats taking back the House. Elections really, really do matter, as cliche as that is, and we must never grow complacent and think they don't.
329
@Ruby
If it were not for the investigative journalists, Hilary Clinton would be president now, instead of this nightmare.
34
@Ruby And thank goodness for the whistleblower.
128
If only Trump would read a book, he would be familiar with what one stable American genius (Twain) once said "“If you tell the truth you don’t have to remember anything,”
51
''House of Cards'', the Trump years.
11
NYT interview Rudy May 2019 he talks about goosing investigations into Biden, Crowdstrike/DNC server with contacts in Ukraine. He's all over the MSM talking about this.
Before August. Before July. In the Spring, when the slow-walk of funding was noticed by house and senate committee members and State employees.
9
The question will be asked years from now...
“Where were you when DJT was impeached and removed from office?”
We all know is coming! It’s just when.
13
I have a bottle of removal from office champagne in the fridge. I’m looking very forward to a great hangover.
2
@Is_the_audit_over_yet I remember exactly where I was when Tricky Dick resigned in disgrace.
Expecting this next go-round to be even more memorable.
3
None of this matters unless Trump's followers finally wake up and smell the coffee, then realize that the clown they've been supporting is the biggest piece of dirt that has ever been found in the white house.
I am surprised that with all the dumb things that Trump has done since becoming president, he hasn't tried to award a posthumous medal to Benedict Arnold.
10
@BTO
There's still time.
1
@BTO
Trump wouldn't award a posthumous medal to Benedict Arnold because he doesn't know who he was. Putin might suggest that Trump make an award to Stalin. Now there's a strongman!
As important as it is to have one or more articles of impeachment relating to UkraineGate, the Democrats would be derelict in their duties were they not to also present one or more articles of impeachment relating to: a) the emoluments clause, b) obstruction of justice, c) incitement of violence against his political opponeents, d) compulsive lying and d) being a disgusting, classless disgrace to the United States of America.
15
Donald Trump wouldn't know the truth even if it punched him in the face. Impeach him and hurry up.
8
In "every" instance in this case Trump and his lackeys in his administration and Congress have been proven wrong. They're now arguing process instead of the law because they can't stand up to the Constitution. They are all crooks and traitors and need to go.
11
What? Trump lied? Cant be...he's so ethical. The call was absolute perfection.
lol.
How many is this?
5
My 2-cent advice to Trump’s supporters coming to this comment section: before twisting facts and providing phony excuses explaining why Trump is innocent and why this is a conspiration from Far left/Hillary/Soros/Santa Claus... just wait for the next article which will debunk your comment. You may avoid making fools of yourselves.
11
Much of it is a disinformation campaign paid for by the Trump campaign. They are not about to change their tune. Not so long as the paychecks keep coming.
1
I think the withholding of the aid Zelensky had just mentioned was implied in the reply Trump gave; "but I need you to do me a favor..."
What is the evidence that the request for an investigation is based on?
We all know or at least should know, the Hunter Biden/VP Biden story is just a flat out lie and that the idea it was Ukraine and not Russia who interfered in our election is also a flat out lie. Then there is the conspiracy theory that the DEMs were conspiring with the Ukraine to interfere in the 2016 election and that a DEM computer server is now being hidden in Ukraine???? Is that the "but her emails" server which she gave to the FBI or is it some other imaginary server?
What exactly is the evidence for any of these theories that Presidente El Trumpo wants to have the Ukrainian authorities investigate? Well actually all he wants is for them to say they are investigating it. He'll tell them the results of their investigation or accuse them of covering up once he starts losing in the polls in a few months.
4
@magicisnotreal I think the key word in Trump's request "but I need you to do me a favor, though" is the word "though", as it implies a condition related to what the U.S. was promising to give Ukraine.
I agree that a quid pro quo is not required for impeachment, the simple fact of the request is, but if the facts indicate that the request also included a quid pro quo, which I believe "though" points to, that makes the case for impeachment that much stronger.
2
I'm shocked — SHOCKED — that the Trump administration misled the American people concerning the quid pro quo with the Ukraine president. Having the Trump crime syndicate run the United States of America's domestic and foreign policies is like allowing The Three Stooges to perform open-heart surgery on your child. What a debacle. It just never ends.
8
Nailed it, NYT! Keep fighting for us
5
Hey Trump supporters, now that lie is put to rest, what you got?
6
Mike Pence, too! President Pelosi??? That Warsaw meeting puts him right in the thick of it.
9
How many legs does Trump have? This must be the twentieth time the other shoe has dropped. Enough!
5
I'm starting agree with President Trump that there was no quid pro quo. With his increasingly ridiculous defenses, it's looking more like quid amateur quo.
39
And the next "....couldn't have happened because......" will be what?
"no quid pro quod"
Yes there was
"Ukraine didn't know"
Yes they did
Republicans can't lie their way out of a paper bag.
No they can't.
Power cedes nothing without demand.
Anti-Trust legislation 100 years ago - Democrats
New Deal - Democrats
Last Government Balanced Budget Surplus - Democrats
Republicans are responsible for nothing other misery for the everyman.
16
Gosh, it seems like everything Trump says turns out to be a bald faced lie. If only we had an inkling of this before he took office...
44
@Christopher
It seems that most of those who voted for him knew that he had very little commitment to truth and honesty. These principles did not matter to his supporters either. That is now abandantly clear. They were drawn to him because of his bigotry and hate. These qualities were missing from the other 17 candidates he beat handily in the GOP primaries in 2016. The question is, will Trump's so called "base" ever support what most of the rest of America would consider a decent Republican candidate?
3
The 15 pages of opening statement from only yesterday proves that Ukraine not only new but almost acquiesced as their only option against the life-threatening theft of trump for his evil plot.
But depressingly, we continue to put trump on the news while he rants lies like a madman. We must start to not air him live or to have big fat fact checking across the screen. What cowards they are, not answering one question today: trump, pence, and pompeo - such little, shameful ants in bloated egotistical bodies.
As a student of International Relations I am still with my mouth wide open, not believing that a president could act, speak, and cause the murder of our allies like this. I hope it is clear from the the East to the West and throughout the North and South of America, that trump has acted against the will of Americans, America, and our allies. He has colluded with terrible dictators to undermine our safety.
One day justice might be done...just seems it is coming much too slowly. Blood now covers this president and it has spilled deeply on his cronies pathetic pence and pompous pompeo. Wow, amazing that Bolton ends up being the courageous one...he should have shouted to the media but at least he did take some action.
11
That steady drip-drip of revelations eventually becomes a stream of truth. Will the Dems be able to unravel this convoluted story and create a simple enough narrative for even the most ardent Trumpista to understand? Stay tuned...
5
@Aron That's asking a bit much. People won't understand what they don't want to understand.
1
@Aron
You can lead the Trumpistas to water, but you can't make them think.
As it is said, if you cannot change your mind, how do you know you still have one?
After the inexcusable abandonment of our Kurdish allies, based upon his "gut", I thought that the Swamp King's gut only gutted American credibility. But, since he has been coming up with these hair-brained explanations, apparently without adult supervision, that means, poetically, his gut is gutting him, too. Carve on, oh craven one.
6
Trump:
Go ahead, keep battling the "fake" Media. It doesn't matter.
Because we in the Resistance are now fully entrenched against your [truly] fake assertions.
In the end:
You Lose. We Win.
Bye, bye...
6
What a roller-coaster ride this must be.
That is, the exhilaration of thinking one's gotten away with an exculpatory lie -- ''It couldn't have been extortion, the Ukrainians didn't know the money was being held up before the Trump-Zelensky call" -- regularly followed by the deflating realization that skilled investigative journalists, the betes noire of liars, have the will and the ability to explode the lies?
4
Bad at governing, bad for allies, bad for the environment and bad at lying about all the wrongdoings. Good for the rich getting richer.
8
Whether the Ukrainian Government knew about the “quo” is irrelevant and a cheap ruse.
If someone broke into your house and stole a diamond necklace, but you were not aware of the theft, doesn’t mean the theft didn’t occur.
9
So how much longer will this charade of lies continue?
May the wall of truth come crashing down on each and every lie and deceptive action.
8
Amen!
Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House, becoming the first female president after the removal from office of a corrupted President and Vice-President.
I wonder if even Tom Clancy could have imagined such a scenario.
9
Quid Pro Quo ain't just Trump's favorite seafood dish anymore...
5
An important point is that Trump, for personal reasons, held up Congressionally authorized funding, a violation of law. It is obvious there is a quid, and that Ukraine had been informed, yet even this simple act is impeachable.
11
I think it's interesting that everywhere Trump has been meddeling allows for the possability of the Russians stepping in and taking over. In one spot they has succeeded, what if the man has another agenda for holding up the aid here?
12
Now there is evidence that Pence was also directly involved in quid pro quo. Does this mean we going to see a President Pelosi?
11
@Tim I can not stand her but she would only be holding it till the next president comes in and hopefully that would be a non corporate Democrat. I will bet though that trump tries to get Pence to take the fall for him, and say everything was his plan.
3
I think this is relatively weak evidence that Ukrainian officials unambiguously knew that aid was tied to investigations. One US official telling a Ukrainian that another Ukrainian should talk to Mick Mulvaney to learn more about the situation isn't exactly incontrovertible evidence. It can easily be dismissed by Trump and GOP. I believe wholeheartedly that this all involved quid pro quo -- it's quite obvious at this point that it did -- but this NYT reporting, however sound it might be, isn't going to be what we're all looking for viz a viz a smoking gun.
1
We are witnessing the beginning of the end of Donald Trump‘s administration and his hold on power in America. At this point Republican Senators are going to be ridiculed for the rest of their natural lives if they don’t finally step up to the plate and admit that their backing of this president , who has abused power and lied to the American people on a daily basis, was a miscalculation and a mistake.
As for Donald Trump, when his approval ratings start to dip into the mid 30s which they most assuredly will within the next few months, you will start to see many more confused faces on Capitol Hill. And you will also begin to see this delusional president go even farther off the rails than he has in the past. Be prepared for this one ,it’s not going to be pretty.
7
It will be beautiful, the pleasure of a climax.
1
"No Quid Pro Quo" is a trump "Brand"....similar to "No Collusion" during the Comey investigation.
Branding works if the end result turns in your favor (or you get lucky). In the case of the Ukranian debacle, it is a chain around trumps neck as the facts keep supporting just the opposite...that there was certainly a quid pro quo.
Of course, the branding worked, to a degree, because impeachment does not require a quid pro quo but trump thought that he could change the narrative and standard of proof. That is what the press is printing despite the fact it is not relevant. Just the same, with an avalanche of proof against him, he is relegated to the ravings of a lunatic: "No Quid Pro Quo".
They will write those words on his tombstone.
7
On one of the cable news shows Rep. Ted Liu, representative from California and member of Intelligence Committee said after hearing from Taylor that there were two (or 3?) quid pro quos: 1) dig up dirt on the Bidens by investigating Burisma; 2) locate, or investigate the location of the DNC servers squirreled away somewhere in Ukraine; 3) make a public announcement that Ukraine was opening an investigation into the Burisma / Biden business.
Trump wanted the public announcement from Zelensky so he could point to the Ukrainian's "investigation" and say "see, I told you so..." as part of his obfuscation program.
Finally, Liu brought up another important point when he observed that President Trump was working against the national interest by withholding important military aid (Javelin anti-tank missles), which theoretically weakened Ukraine in light of the presence of Russian troops in the eastern part of the country.
I wonder if the the articles of impeachment will include an article for treason for assisting the Russians against the Ukrainians?
Rep. Liu said the Intelligence Committee would be working on Saturdays to collect depositions to expedite the impeachment process.
10
"Ukrainian officials were aware that U.S. aid might be in jeopardy, but I do not know how or when they learned of it".
I have a pretty good guess where they learned of it. It was when Trump told the Ukrainian president in their July 25 phone conversation. The only transcript released to the public was the White House edited version. Yet neither the Congress nor the media has pressed to have the compete word-for-word transcription released though it is publicly known to be on a secure White House server. Still the media is hesitant to claim Trump doesn't lie in any of his vitriolic protestations. Guess why Democracy dies in the darkness ... of a White House secure server.
If this was a non-taxpayer funded server with Hillary's emails the media would spend the next 15 months on the subject like they did in 20015 & 16 when they ignored years of Trump's connection with Putin.
(Look there in the darkness, it's the cold dead body of democracy)
6
@Tony Williams Why isn't Congress asking for the transcript of the phone call, especially the House, you gotta ask.
3
This pretty much fills in the picture, if it wasn’t clear enough already.
With such simple and concrete facts in public view, brace yourself; the president and his men are about to engage in gaslighting like it’s never been seen before.
Be vigilant.
5
Do the Trump supporters simply not care about national security?
Because this is where we are now: For his own selfish personal interests, Trump held funding important for American national security hostage so he could shake down a foreign power in violation of American election laws.
So even if you are so in love with Donald Trump that you somehow don't care about his self-dealing, don't care about his violations of the law, don't care about the integrity of our elections, don't care about foreign interference in our democracy, and don't care about his compulsive lying about all of this--what about American national security? Do you not care about that either?
This is getting simply ridiculous. What ever happened to patriotism?
6
@Ann
90% of them haven't left the county in which they were born. National security is something they take for granted in their isolated, secure little lives.
4
Congress..do your job and let's just get this over with. As Leonard Cohen said, "Everybody Knows".
6
Will trump resign before he's impeached? Whatever's best for his lined pockets. "What should it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul."
5
@Desiree
You’re working with the presumption that the man in question has a soul.
3
@Desiree
I doubt Trump will ever resign. He's being investigated by New York State for tax evasion, etc. He could end up in prison when he isn't President, so he'll
hang on as long as possible. When he's supposed to leave, our military will have to carry him out of the Oval Office by force. I'm surprised he hasn't tried to turn it into a rectangle.
1
I’ll take the comedian every time.
2
Now it appears we have not only a corrupt president but a Vice that willingly does Trump's bidding when asked. What did "mother" say about that, Pence? That pretty much negates Pence's claim to innocence and should disqualify him from stepping into the presidency after Trump is impeached in the Senate and removed. The measure of a coward is when to refuse to assist in nefarious actions by the boss. That would allow Pelosi to move into the oval office by default! This fiasco is truly worse than Watergate by a large margin.
11
Under Trump we have become a banana republic. It is time our currency reflected this change. I say on all currency should be a picture of a smirking Trump and a new motto:
In Lies We Trust
3
@Stefan Ackerman
Really? When did our economy devolve into a one-cash-crop economy dependent on bananas?
"Banana Republic," despite the Woody Allen film "Bananas," has nothing to do with being, proverbially, bananas.
@matty The label "banana republics" initially referred to the small countries in Central America, whose cash crop was bananas and whose governments tended towards corruption and suppression of the population.
2
@matty
The Trump and Kushner families' have turned selling out America into a one-cash-crop. That we allow this to go on turns us into being, proverbially, bananas ... and a banana republic.
What do you think the Ukrainian officials must be feeling? They did their best to begin a campaign to clean up the country and here comes Trump and his henchman Giuliani. What an unfortunate circumstance for them; brunt Russia’s attacks or concede to American corruption.
10
Ukraine’s response to the Trump administration’s request for an investigation and withholding of military aid is useful to know, but non-dispositive.
The issue is whether the president sought to influence Ukraine by demanding investigations of the Bidens and withholding aid— not whether Ukraine honored the request.
6
Let’s be clear...it DOES NOT MATTER if there was a quid-pro-quo (although there clearly was). Asking for foreign interference was/is sufficient. Keep it simple, and don’t get lost in the extraneous.
29
High crimes and misdemeanors, in spades. However, the more that can be documented the better.
At some point the Senate Republicans are going to go visit the White House and tell Trump his time is over. We are not at the tipping point yet.
Towards that goal, another few weeks of this phase of investigation will be very productive. No reason to rush toward the public hearings. It is clear that a lot of people are now feeling more emboldened to disclose what they know. Each new example of a documented impeachable act being covered up or lied about just brings that fateful meeting a bit closer.
13
The GOP needs to stop looking at this issue through the lens of politics and view the facts through the lens of democracy and recognized their responsibility to our country.
21
"The communications did not explicitly link the assistance freeze to the push by Mr. Trump and Mr. Giuliani for the investigations. "
Why do we immediately assume investigating the politically privileged is a crime?
Biden bragged about having a prosecutor fired in exchange for restoring aide, the prosecutors scope could include investigation of his Son's company, the Prosecutor has a afivdavid linking his firing to Biden, we have an investigation treaty with the Ukraine.
What President with an interest in "taking care that the laws be faithfully executed" would not take care of the head of state communications needed for both Justice departments work together.
Are the politically privileged immune from prosecution.
We have the State department. Our State Department us not intended to be the Deep State Department. They are to support the President's execution of foreign policy, and not to define such policy.
@John
yes. we've heard the FOX Narrative. it's wrong. but it is oft repeated.
2
As a logical matter, why wouldn't the Trump administration communicate to Ukraine the aid was being withheld? It would diminish Trump's leverage to extract the "favor" he desired if Ukraine did not know their aid was at stake.
It seems that the factual defenses that the administration's defenders have rather lamely advanced have crumbled one by one, in part due to a lack of a coordinated strategy on their part. Trying to coordinate with an impulsive and infantile ruler is a fool's errand to begin with.
The remaining defenses seem to be to attack process, to launch ad hominem assaults, or to retreat into denial or fantastic conspiracy theories. The true believers will buy anything, but it doesn't alter the fact that on the substance, on the facts and the law, there seems now to be precious little, if anything, left for Trump.
5
Let the party begin. I believe any prosecutor would conclude there's enough evidence to go to trial. The hapless Dems should move boldly within a few days or forever go back to the business of mediocre and ineffective law-making.
There is not a single statesman/woman in the House or Senate on either side.
American politics is no place for the best and brightest. Who would want to cast their lot in what passes as government?
I'm disgusted and depressed. I hear our politicians start sentences with "The American People" and it's more than I can take.
7
@Ralph Braseth It would be nice to not have the weak Dems in charge of the investigation. What wimps they are and they actually are hurting the presidential hopefuls by their timid reluctance to stand up for what is right and legal and outlined carefully in the constitution what their duty is.
1
Pretty amazing to see the hardline House Republicans turn out in force to try to distract the public from the Taylor testimony. The evidence is getting so clear that they have little left to do but try to argue that the process is unfair. Seeing them so easily mobilized to break the law in the secure room may be a small foretaste of what is coming. Rule of law seems to be little respected.
88
@WHM I don't see any evidence. I see another example of second-hand information being structured to fit a narrative. Add in the lack of cross-examination, the calling of other witnesses to refute/expand the picture, then you have one persons opinion on the activities around him.
It would be like me hearing from several people that @WHM robbed a bank. I guess you are guilty and should be punished for your actions. Unless, of course, you would like a chance to defend yourself. But since the President is not being given this chance of due process, you should not be granted that either.
Whether the President or @WHM is guilty or not is almost irrelevant. The lack of constitutional process should be disconcerting to every American citizen. Illegal immigrants get more protection than this.
You clearly don't understand either constitutional process or standard investigative technique. Republicans on the investigating committees are present and able to ask any questions they want. Once the investigation ends, whatever defense Republicans want to mount can be made. Good luck with that btw.
2
@WHM that’s why today the republicans on the House Intel Committee staged a protest that stopped the hearings. The truth hurts!
Thank you NYT. Outstanding reporting like this provides an invaluable service to our democracy.
192
@Lindsey On May 1, Jonathan Chait/NYMag 9/23: " the New York Times published a story that contained the most important facets of the Ukraine story. The Times reported that President Trump, through his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, was pressing Ukraine’s government to investigate Joe Biden. And yet, having uncovered a massive scandal, the Times buried its own scoop. The revelation, which many people now see an an impeachable offense, was buried in the middle of a story that was primarily devoted to carrying Trump’s water."
2
Trump's argument, that there cannot be a quid-pro-quo if the Ukraine did not know their support was blocked - is nonsense. They we're waiting for help from the US and had to assume that they would need to fulfill the demand Trump kept insisting upon. This would have been crystal clear to any skilled negotiator.
99
@S
Also immediately after Zelensky had thanked him for the aid Congress had already appropriated for Ukraine and he believed to be forthcoming Trump interjects with "but I need you to do me a favor..."
3
@S
And also begs the question:
Regardless of IF "They" didn't know, WHY was the support blocked?
We know now it WAS.
Der Trumpf is not the type of individual who does something for nothing, EVER. And I mean EVER. No trifle too small, he's got to get something. "What's in it for me" is the philosophy of the cutthroats.
3
@S
And also begs the question:
Regardless of IF "They" didn't know, WHY was the support blocked?
We know now it WAS.
There is adequate proof that Trump is deeply involved in using taxpayer money to bribe another country to investigate his political opponents.
His normal response to being besieged is to sue everyone. This is how the president has often responded over the decades. The pressure of the impeachment inquiry is intensifying so he is now thinking of retaliating against news outlets such as CNN, WaPo and MSNBC. .
The media is responsible for telling the truth, not doctoring it up to please a president who is ignorant but wishes to be worshiped.
Nobody is above the law!!
175
@Carol Ring Bill Maher had a field day when Trump sued him (Trump lost) so you can imagine the glee at MSNBC, etc. -- just thinking about the depositions they'd demand from Trump. Trump is way out of his league with these people and they're going to continue to thump on his head. All of the MSM are going to sharpen their focus and their language in describing Trump's mental deterioration under Pelosi's lash. Imagine the great Donald Trump being maneuvered out of office by a woman! How great it is.
4
@Carol Ring
Carol, Trump doesn't merely 'often' use lawsuits to intimidate ans harass- this is his go to- his modus operandi:
'An analysis by USA Today published in June 2016 found that over the previous three decades, Donald Trump and his businesses have been involved in 3,500 legal cases in U.S. federal courts and state court, an unprecedented number for a U.S. presidential candidate.'
And he's fast closing in on 14,000 lies
7
Trump is above the laws as is evident so far.
"But in fact, word of the aid freeze had gotten to high-level Ukrainian officials by the first week in August, according to interviews and documents obtained by The New York Times."
The wall propping up Trump is being taken down brick by brick, and eventually this Humpty Dumpty President will have all his lies and all his deceits scattered about... and irretrievable.
74
So long Mike Pence.
Hello President Pelosi.
142
@Blue in Green
And take a hike Mike Pompeo.
6
@Elle
All cabinet members would be gone. Thank God.
5
@Byter
Yeah, but the sooner the better. It will be very interesting to see who deserts the ship as the water rises and stuff floats. As if they can have a life after the Con Don is gone gone.
Will there be a point EVER when this White House stops lying?
102
@lz - Will there ever be a point when the base gets sick of being lied to?
5
@lz When we vote Trump and the Republicans out of office.
4
@lz
no, nope, nyet, nada, non, never, fuggeddabodit—his headstone will say "Here he lies"
13
The story here is simple at its core. Trump solicited a BRIBE. If the president of Ukraine says in public "We have opened an investigation into Biden," that damages Biden. That's the payoff.
It's simple. Do this for me and I will release the aid.
The president's people are doing everything they can to obfuscate this very simple story, which has been laid out for all to see by people with sterling reputations for honesty.
240
@Steve
Pitting Trump's record against Taylor's, the result is not likely to come out in Trump's favor.
Yes, this will become Trump's "the boy who cried wolf" moment. Who will believe him.
3
@Steve
He didn't solicit a bribe, he tried to extort a bribe.
6
Nothing has been accomplished in the last three years. We have all been busy pointing out the lies, or defending the lies with more lies. The world's educated are aghast at the American Truth.... that we are much more than the American tourist they personally meet.
12
@Ed I am sure Sicilians are envious of us. We are overshadowing them in the mafia world.
@Ed - Correction. Nothing good has been accomplished. Trump and company have managed to inflict plenty of damage.
By holding back this military aid - thus signalling the Russians that US support was weakening, Trump risked encouraging a further Russian invasion. What would the US and the EU have done then? Possibly defend the Ukraine. So - to be clear - Trump was willing to risk war to get dirt on someone he supposedly thought he could beat easily. It is hard to think of something more traitorous than this. Impeachment isn’t enough.
235
@T
The Kurds were next on the Trump Endangerment for Political Gain List.
That's "two strikes"....when will Trump be called (or hauled) "out"?
3
@T
This is a very good point. And Russia retains a massive nuclear arsenal.
It's easy to succumb to hyperbole about this, but it's important to remember that Trump was playing games in the middle of a very serious situation.
3
Never ending lies. The entire Republican party must be disbanded if we have any hope of restoring something representing a republic.
47
After watching Matt Getz storm the investigative hearings this morning, I am sure the GOP is in a panic mode. Breaching protocol for meetings sends a clear message: Panic. These congressmen are not on these committees. I think the GOP leadership knows not to put these mediocre representatives on those committees for good reason. Trump tweets, witnesses contradict. Trump claims. Ukraine says no. Next thing you know, he will hand over Syria with a big ribbon to Turkey and Russia. Oops, to late. He's already withdrawing sanctions. The GOP.....looking the other way ....or storming the doors with meltdowns.
62
The damage coming from corruption in the Trump White House far exceeds the destruction from corruption in Ukraine. At this point having the US advise Ukraine is a clear case of the fox recommending changes to the henhouse. Do realize that McConnell, Graham and McCarthy are trashing the Constitution in hopes of being re-elected to continue tearing our system apart. Even farmers know planting in poor soil is a waste of time & money. Vote for somebody different this election.
39
Trump and Giuliani would happily extort 100 different nations for all manner of manufactured dirt on their political opponents.
Incompetence feeds insecurity, which in turn inspires treason.
Impeach at once.
57
@David Adams ...and, remove. Let the senators know they have the last word in getting rid of the trump mess and if they don't they will pay at the polls.
4
Ok, all this damning evidence is coming fast and furiously for Donald.
Trump is at this moment throwing up another smokescreen and diversionary tactic...
releasing all sanctions against Turkey.
Trump's hoping this is headline news instead of more damning testimony and supporting evidence about his impeachable Ukraine crimes.
28
The Ukrainian problem for the White House is that the activity involved a lot of people acting in a coordinated fashion. To coordinate, there will be communications, and thus evidence of the alleged abuse of power will be found in such communications and testimony. So far, nothing has come up from the investigations to help Mr. Trump.
So the Congressional impeachment inquiry should continue to seek evidence and testimony, so that more and more denials can be defeated with facts.
64
This is all very compelling and convincing if you take the time to read and understand the entire narrative. But most people -- especially the remaining Independents who might be in play -- won't do this on their own. The story needs to be straightforward and bulletproof at the same time.
As the pieces fall into place, I think it would be most useful for the NYT to publish a timeline of who (in US and Ukraine) knew what, at what time, based on the best available evidence. This might be a relatively straightforward way for the average reader to digest all of these important pieces as they emerge, and ultimately for Congress to issue a straightforward message to the American people that leaves little room for interpretation.
74
@JLR
Read Taylor's opening statement to Congress. The timeline is there. Also, Taylor's concern and worry are clear.
6
So Republicans, I assume you'd vote for a bill clarifying that it's perfectly legal to request foreign support in an election and that federal foreign aid can buy opposition research.
61
Nearly four hundred million was appropriated by Congress to protect Ukraine and by extension America's national security interests, and Trump blocked it to shake down Ukraine for an investigation that would help Trump get re-elected.
This is every manner of wrong. It is illegal to solicit foreign aid in an election. It is a misuse of taxpayer money for his own personal gain. It put Ukraine in jeopardy from Russia. It was part of a shadow foreign policy run by Giuliani for Trump's personal interest.
How can the Republicans in the Senate seriously defend this?
166
@Ann
My only difference from you is that I'd say he didn't solicit aid from Ukraine, he tried to extort it.
4
@Ann I just finished reading Mr. Taylor's opening statement. That aid was going to expire on Sept. 30th, so there's a time crunch that hasn't been clearly reported. Trump wanted Zelensky to be interviewed on CNN and state that they were opening an investigation. It's still not a guarantee that they would have received that aid money as Taylor also states Trump didn't want them to get anything. It got released on Sept. 11th after it was made public that the Trump administration was withholding the aid.
1
Trying to commit a crime and failing doesn't seem to trouble the GOP base. He didn't actually get away with it, right? So no harm done, right?
Note to GOP base: this is one time we have discovered this type of activity. What if he succeeds the next time? You do know there will be a next time unless he is removed from office, yes? He has violated the trust of the country so many times he simply can't be trusted to act on our behalf in any sphere of presidential activity.
And that is why he needs to be removed.
54
@Djt Exactly. And, for that matter, what has he gotten away with that we DON'T know about? More to come. Film at eleven...
1
You know the funds were not held up for the reasons allegedly related to our President’s inquiry into the Biden family’s largesse. Yet you continue to try to connect dots that do not exist. Funds to other nations are routinely held up or advanced for a variety of logical and legal internationally recognized as perfectly legit. Trying to nail the impeachment farce to this is an act of utter desperation.
2
@JBC
Or maybe it us just sadly true.
21
@JBC The evidence clearly speaks otherwise. No desperation, not a farce. Just facts.
5
@JBC
Or perhaps your attempt to spin the details, raise “alternative facts” and deny the truth is the real act of “utter desperation.”
6
Am I missing something about the timeline? The "QPQ" call was July 25th. Ukraine learned about possible aid holdup in August. That means on July 25th there was no reason for them to think that any request by the President was a quid pro quo.
So if this timeline is correct, this story seems overblown.
3
@Paul Yes you are. The timeline clearly reveals that the aid was put on hold before the call. Releasing the aid was contingent upon a public announcement of the investigations being launched. There is your quid pro quo.
Not that it matters, it is impeachable that trump even Asked for the investigations; the quid pro quo only adds more crimes.
2
Silly... the efforts to get Ukraine to provide political dirt began BEFORE that call, and continued after the call, through intermediaries of Trumps administration. The call was simply one facet of the total coordinated effort.
READ people! Sheesh...
5
@Paul Yes, you are missing something. We, the people, do not know what was 'exactly' stated, word for word, in the call you mentioned. We only know of a summary that the WH released. And of course, there is a private lawyer pursuing his and others very shady trips for photo ops and to push for the Biden's and others to be investigated.
Still no 'smoking gun' here.... But close only counts in horseshoes, hand-grenades, and PR campaigns. A statement that it was 'not a bureaucratic glitch' isn't enough for that elusive quid-pro-quo. If the explanation for the hold-up is that it's due to something that Ukraine needs to do, i.e. it's contingent, THEN you've got something.
4
@carl bumba You haven't read the publically released evidence, have you. We're way past smoking gun. We have the victim, the bullet, the fingerprints and the DNA evidence.
5
@Carl Bumba
And if you asked your boss for a raise and your boss said I need you to do me a favor and fire Josephine Schmo, you wouldn’t understand that your raise was contingent on whether you lowered the boom on Josephine?
The gun is smoking — and Trump apologists are having trouble washing the discharge residue from Trump’s hands.
6
All of it? That's hard to say. Did you? I'm just referring to the false Quid Pro Quo accusation. The Quo is still missing.
1
First the GOP defense of Trump was there was no Quid, Pro, Quo. When this was shown to be false they said that maybe there was but Ukraine was unaware. Now that we know Ukraine was aware they are protesting the process. Will they ever just admit to the fact that Trump acted illegally and with corrupt intent?
37
@Dave
There is no Quid Pro Quo if BOTH sides are not aware of the terms... by definition.
1
@carl bumba Everything we have seen so far shows that Ukraine was aware of the quid pro quo - the President's phone call on July 25 made that clear, even if Zelensky was not yet aware that the aid had actually been held up at that point - the "we need a favor though" is clear - and by the way, just asking Zelensky to get dirt on his political opponent is an impeachable offense.
We all need to understand that this wasn't actually a search for "dirt" on Biden or the DNC. Just the CNN interview itself would have been enough. Imagine how such an interview would have been weaponized by Republicans, Fox and the rest of the right-wing media. The tactics they honed during the Clinton email saga would have been deployed again, this time to tar Biden. Even if the Ukrainian "investigations" did not yield anything, a CNN interview would have been enough to sink Biden. Credit to Zelensky for holding out.
38
@MattC Thanks for your post. I'm surprised this very important point has not been discussed more in all parts of the media. The GOP, trump, and right wing media have an extensive history of cherry picking events to suit their needs. This is worthy of an entire article.
12
Also credit to the two US Sentators Johnson (R) and Murphy (D) who met with Zelensky and Ambassador Taylor in Kyiv on September 5th. In that meeting, Zelensky’s first question was about the security assistance being withheld (and likely what he was being pressured to do), to which both senators explained that bipartisan congressional support was Ukraine’s most strategic asset and that President Zelensky shouldn’t jeopardize that support by “getting drawn into U.S. domestic politics.
I’m sure it would be interesting to hear more about that meeting from both Senators Johnson and Murphy, it may shed more light on how Ukraine was perceiving the withholding of security assistance funding!
1
Stop reporting on the quid pro quo! It doesn't matter!
The President of the United States of America asked a foreign country to investigate his political rival for his own personal gain.
That is enough for impeachment!
We are in a banana republic. This is the stuff we see in small dictatorships.
69
@M. Exactly!
Well, of course, Mulvaney does this "all the time". Wouldn't Ukrainian 'bank accounts?' show a deposit increase when the money came in? They would have been looking for it.
8
Quid pro quo isn't spoken out loud between a mobster org and the one being asked for the favor. It's expected you'll get the picture. Mr. Mulvaney explained that Mr. Trump is a businessman and used to having what he wants before making payment. Mr. Trump's "businessman" perspective for this administration is of a mobster. His only objective is to win the next election and remain in power. Then what? God forbid.
26
As far as the question of a quid pro quo, I think that was adequately answered by Mulvaney last week when he blurted out explicitly there was one. He can try to deny it now if he wants, but then why'd he say that? And why does every other piece of testimony point to an explicit requirement that the Ukrainians give Trump (fabricated) political dirt on Biden?
24
Keep it simple, Dems. You have the goods here. As the old lawyer adage goes, "Tell them what you're going to say. Then say it. Then tell them what you said."
34
I think we may eventually find out that Trump's hold on people like the once sane Lindsey Graham has to due with compromat on him received from Putin by DJT. Cravenly fearing getting primaried doesn't usually make you lose all sense of self. He's clearly facing some sort of existential crisis that he can tell no one about.
21
Trump has one last shred of a defense left: claiming he didn’t know or personally direct Giuliani to extort Ukraine. A rogue lawyer, if you will. Expect the coming subpoenas to explicitly tie political extortion to Trump personally.
Then Senate Republicans face a choice: this Republic or this Administration can stand, but not both.
20
@Delicious Wolf The already publically released evidence shows/proves trump was the ring leader and personally directed the entire operation.
3
Trump himself made the quid pro quo explicit in his July 25 phone call with Zelensky. Zelensky said he was ready to move to the “next steps” of U.S. military support, and Trump immediately responded that he needed Zelensky to do him a favor, launching into his requests for help finding the made up DNC server and for help investigating the Biden’s. Zelensky’s responses make clear that he understood that Trump was making requests, and Zelensky tried to give assurances on both.
24
If you're a supporter of President Trump, what's more likely: a massive deep state cabal of left-wing socialists intent on staging a coup, or a President with a long history of corruption, who constantly surrounds himself with shady enablers (from Roy Cohn to Paul Manafort), withholding taxpayer approved funds earmarked for our national security interests all to create a smear campaign against a political rival?
The cognitive dissonance necessary to maintain Mr. Trump's lie is deafening.
87
@jrinsc - The only explanation I can think of is that this is the psychological trappings of a cult. Trump's supporters are cult members. They eschew any truths that contradict their belief system, that Trump is their savior & can do no wrong. Trouble is... when Trump is out, he'll take those people with them & foment his own little "social war" on the sidelines, constantly injecting himself into the political narratives of the day. He won't stop, until social media platforms collectively censure him.
1
Just assume that everything that comes out of the White House is a lie.
Especially if it come out of Trump's mouth.
.
52
Everything that comes out of the Whitehouse during this administration *IS* a lie! We’re at ~14,000 proven FALSE or MISLEADING statements since 2016 and COUNTING.
How Trump supporters can just IGNORE this fact is beyond me.
Compared to Obama’s entire 8 years in office, with approximately 2500 false or misleading statements. So, yes, while in politics it’s common to bend or distort truth sometimes, the level of dishonesty from the current administration is nearly 5 TIMES worse than the previous one!!
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Donald Trump, his staff and his Gaslighting Over People party want Americans to know that that they didn't say what they said and that they didn't do what they did.....never mind the facts, the evidence and objective reality.
If Trumpers think gaslighting 24 hours a day by the President and his sycophantic staff will lead this country anywhere else but the sewer, they better wake up before they're up to their eyeballs in Up-Is-Down-Down-Is-Up sewage of the first order.
Impeach the entire Trump Administration.
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@Socrates
And the Tatar pony they rode in on.
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@Socrates , eloquently plain and simple truth.
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@Socrates Trumpers aren't going anywhere. Trumpers will sacrifice themselves on the pyre of their demagogue. And they'll try to take the rest of us along with them.
That's how Making American Great Again looks to the Pro-AfterLifers.
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Surprise, our President and his enablers lies to us! AGAIN!
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This story is too confusing. You should prepare a clear graphic timeline showing what happened when. That is the best way to get people to understand clearly. If people don't understand then Trump can confuse us.
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Mr. Taylor’s opening statement provides a very clear and thorough timeline of events. It’s been published in full by the NYTimes.
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@danarlington "This story is too confusing. You should prepare a clear graphic timeline showing what happened when. "
Well, that's part of the problem. Too many participants are being cagey, or are just uninformed, about what happened when. That's part of what the continuing investigation is trying to get straight.
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@danarlington I completely agree. I would even encourage the NYT and other top outlets to cooperate in producing a similar visual (even if stylistically different across outlets) that can be updated as new important events arise. The information needs to be as simple as possible, crystal clear, and disseminated widely -- as does the reason these events matter.
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I greatly enjoy watching the NYT pick up rocks to see what crawls out from under them. Keep up the good work.
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How many lies before his supporters finally understand they’ve been duped by a con-artist?
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As long as Trump doesn't turn black, Muslim, or Latino, they won't figure it out.
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There is no limit.
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@Geez Louise At an average of 13 per day, it will take another 15,000 lies for them to realize it (i.e. until January 20th, 2025).
Ugh.
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We all know he froze the money for political purposes. The question is whether the republicans care.
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@Raidersfan I don't think the question is whether or not "Republicans care," Raidersfan. The question is whether the legislative committee can retrieve the document or record of the communication between the administration and the office of management and budget which ordered the hold to release the funds. That's where the evidence for having done so will be found, if it's to be "found" at all.
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@Raidersfan
Oh, we would witness an explosion and how very passionately Republicans "care" if this was a Democrat, not Trump.
But right now GOPers care FAR MORE about retaining their seat in Congress amid threats against them if they waiver one bit on their blind loyalty to their repugnant leader, Trump.
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@Daniel K. Statnekov
It is very easy to see that you making up the existence of a "smoking gun" document in order to defend the President's action when one isn't found. Unfortunately for you and Trump, that is not how investigations work. You don't investigate a murder by saying we have to find a person with blood on his hands or else we can't prosecute.
I believe you're creating a false argument here, Daniel, easily thwarted. There is not and will not ever be a document from the White House to the OMB that says "hold up this money until Ukraine does what our President wants". There is simply a request from the White House to delay the money. You will say "see, no evidence of a quid pro quo" and then hope this all blows over.
That is why the Democrats have called a steady stream of witnesses to go under oath and all say that they were aware release of the money was contingent on investigations being started. Very difficult to argue against multiple, credible, career diplomats that have worked in both Republican and Democratic administrations.
Keep trying to move the goalposts. It isn't going to work this time.
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I am just SO surprised to see this latest revelation. Have no fear, there is plenty more to come. Drip, drip, drip ....
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@Alan Guyes I'm sick of drip drip drip- this has to stop.
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Jimmy Breslin must surely be guffawing in heaven.
Trump & Co. are truly "The Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight."
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The corrupt Trump house of cards is quickly falling . Thank god.
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Didn’t I hear that two years ago?
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It was just a matter of time. Even they have lost track of their dealings and shady characters in “unofficial” administrative positions.
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@Brett B
No it isn't. We've been here before. Talk to a fox news viewer. You'll find that for them none of this is even real and if it were real it wouldn't matter. Trump isn't going anywhere
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Our (or any) government lies - its just a matter ofr how often. So what else is new?
Its not just Trumph he just lies more often.
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@ez can you get over using false equivalence as justification? It's tired trope.
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@ez ...and Trump's lies jeopardize US national security.
Just sayin'.
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@ez
Crimes in office is another level completely.
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If Republicans in the Senate have any shred of patriotism, they will vote to remove trump.
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Don't hold your breath.
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@say what Well, there's the rub.
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@say what
Good luck with that! A shred of RINO patriotism has no chance against the fear of losing a sinecure to which you have come to believe you are entitled as a matter of right.
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It’s almost as if someone is lying.
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Awaiting Trump’s presser right now well aware that we can trust nothing he says. Sad.
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I wouldn't believe Trump if he reported on the weather.
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@Tom - You shouldn't Trump has lied about the weather more than once.
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He did, and he lied about it. Do you remember Sharpiegate?
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What more is left to prove?
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@Liberal I want every single one of Trump's crimes to be exposed. Americans must know the full extent of the corruption, graft, and evil of this administration. Otherwise, too many people will claim that what Trump and his enablers did was just "business as usual" and he was railroaded for something that would otherwise have been overlooked. Nixon's associates received significant prison sentences after Watergate; that has to happen here as well.
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Well that one didn't last long. I wonder what's next in Wonderland?
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More lies from Trump.
Why is he still in office? Oh right, Congressional corruption.
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BTW, the extremist Russian Republican House members who interrupted the deposition this am should be arrested and jailed. Looking a lot desperate.
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Yes, breaking in on a secret meeting among Russian agents is very serious. What would happen if, forbid the thought, truth leaked for once?
@John Bowman
Wait?
Did the democrats break into the president's cabinet meeting?
Lock em up!
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@John Bowman Cute, but I think you know that the hearing was not "secret", just behind closed doors - and Republicans on the committee have access and have been participating in the depositions, in fact the leader of the "protest", Rep. Gaetz is one of those, so the claim that Republicans are being excluded is bogus. Unless the Russian agents you referred to are the Republicans on the committee.
Extortion. Isn’t that a common Mafia trick ? Who could have guessed.
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And this assumes that the Ukrainians are both stupid and do not have access to the internet. And that they were unaware of Trump’s hack emissary “The Mayor” palling around Kiev with the oligarchs stooges (collectively, “the Three Stooges”) and meeting with the ex-prosecutor with a giant axe to grind and conspiracy theories to peddle.
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“ . . . communications show that Ukraine was aware the White House was holding up the funds weeks earlier than United States and Ukrainian officials had acknowledged and was aware of the freeze during most of the period in August when Giuliani two American diplomats were pressing Zelensky to make a public commitment to the investigations being sought by Trump”
Zelensky and Trump can claim there was no pressure or wrong doing until the cows come home but the tangible evidence, the communications, indicates otherwise and speaks for itself.
The more Trump and Zelensky try to dig their way out of this hole, the hole only gets deeper and deeper, pulling them in farther and farther down.
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@Marge Keller
Zelensky is stuck.
He won't come clean til he is sure Trump is gone...even then he still has Pence to deal with.
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Thank heavens one more time for a free press, and thanks especially to the reporters and editors of the Times and the WashPost.
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@Mike Weston: And thanks also to the dedicated civil servants who have recognized that their overriding duty is to the United States of America.
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Nothing else really needs to be said at this point. Trump is guilty. He is guilty of many other things too. We are witnessing one of the most corrupt administrations in American history.
Once he is out of office, whether by impeachment or the 2020 election, he better be prosecuted. Nixon got pardoned in the name of the nation "needing to heal" and almost no one faced any serious repercussions. This is worse and blatant government corruption. It's time the powerful are held accountable for destroying our democracy. Prosecute them all.
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@BReed More than 40 people were sentenced to significant time in prison during Watergate.
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@Susan Dean Mainly the fall guys. And they served terms people get for being caught with marijuana.
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Of course Ukraine knew why the aid was being held up. First, the aid was so important to Ukraine that it would have noticed the slightest delay. Second, what’s the point of withholding in the admitted quid pro quo if you don’t tell Ukraine? Third, what else would Giuliani be doing in all these off the books contacts he made, and with Trump telling Zelensky to contact Giuliani about investigations?
Most importantly, these people aren’t idiots. Trump mentioning “a favor though” in the same conversation as the aid is implicitly making it a quid pro quo. You’d have to be dense to not figure it out.
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One by one, the stones are getting overturned, exposing the grime beneath. Republicans are going to have a tougher time defending their President.
GOP, this is on your hands now. The justice wheels are picking up speed.
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Another Trump lie, another brick in the wall.
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@Deutschmann More like another nail in the coffin, hopefully
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Please stop suggesting that this pathological liar is a liar - it upsets him and the GOP senators.
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Do we really need any more poof that Trump is corrupt and a liar and unethical?
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To paraphrase the novelist Mary McCarthy, “Every word that comes out of the White House, including “the” and “a,” is a lie.”
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“Liars have to have good memories” my mom used to say, as a warning in the midst of growing up.
Obviously Donald Trump either does not have a good memory, never grew up, or he just thinks all other people are dumb.
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All of the above.
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@MIMA MIMA overlooks a fourth possibility: That our so-called president simply does not care. So long as his name is in every newspaper every day, he's having fun. This thought, of course, may just be a refinement of MIMA's "never grew up."
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The Ukrainians were in danger of constant attack from Russia in the east. US policy sides with the Ukrainians, against the Russians. The Trump Administration withheld congressionally approved military munitions from the Ukrainians, leaving them vulnerable lethal attack by the Russians.
How is this not giving aid and comfort to the enemy?
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@Paul McGlasson
Trump doesn't think Russia is his enemy. That's all he needs to know.
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@Mike
Fair point: the President will say to the Senate impeachment prosecution: "the Russians aren't my enemy...they were Hillary's."
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It’s called treason.
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How long before we hear :
"I couldn't have committed a crime if I didn't know what I was doing was a crime. "
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@Tom Q
Somewhere around the age of five, maybe six, my parents taught me that ignorance of a crime is no excuse.
Has the rule changed? I don't recall getting the memo.
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@Tom Q Mulvaney is likely to take the fall for holding up the funds. And, of course, he'll receive a pardon from Trump for having done so.
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@Ken K This is assuming that any norm applies to our so-called president
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It has reached the point where the liars simply cannot keep their lies straight, and they cannot keep the lid on lies that are scrambled. "When first you practice to deceive..."
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And the dominoes are toppling...
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@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18
I agree Red!!
I keep thinking of that tune, "The Party's Over"
"The party's over
It's time to call it a day
They've burst your pretty balloon
And taken the moon away
It's time to wind up the masquerade
Just make your mind up the piper must be paid"
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Anything Trump says, the opposite is true.
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@Mr. Mark And the corrollary is that anything Trump accuses others of, he is guilty of himself.
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@Mr. Mark True so true
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@Mr. Mark
He's the perfect reverse barometer.
The half-life of Trump lies is getting shorter and shorter.
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Does anyone believe anything the trump officials say any more?
Enough is enough. Impeach!
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@Mark
Trump's base backs him all the way, and continues to defend him against radical left-wing extremists... They are unbothered by facts.
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@Mark And, hopefully, after the House impeaches, the repubs in the Senate are fed up enough with how trump is ruining their party that they will vote to remove.
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Don't rush it. There's a declining number of sane individuals who support the president, but for those still allied with him, the wool over their eyes has grown thick. A few more weeks with more cuts like this one should help a few more regain their vision.
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