Sorry, Times article - pretty weak -- childlike in its simplicity. Trump is being manipulated by Putin in the Ukraine. The Russians engineered an opportunity to advance Trump's political agenda by getting dirt on the Bidens. The bigger and more dangerous story is that Putin wants Ukraine to be subservient to Russia as the first step in his desire to rebuild the Soviet Union and eliminate the threat of NATO. Ukraine, a fledgling democracy, is struggling to rid itself of the influence, and corruption fostered by Russia. Putin also wants sanctions removed which were put in place by Congress to deter him from his incursions into Ukraine. He needs outside tech to explore oil and gas in North Pole worth billions available because of global warming. Realizing that Trump has no interest in protecting Ukraine, they have been forced into a treaty with Putin (just like the Kurds). Ukraine gives up sovereignty of large areas of the Ukraine and sanctions no longer are necessary. Also, our eastern European NATO allies see what happened to Ukraine and now realize that given Trump's public lack of support for NATO, they need to fear that Putin and Trump are somehow allied against them. We know that Trump thinks Putin is great leader and friend. Pelosi is right, with Trump, all roads lead to Putin. For our allies in eastern Europe, it demonstrates the questionable level of commitment to NATO by Trump and promotes fear that Putin may indeed see his plan to rebuild the Soviet Union succeed.
7
Seriously? People area asking why it's a problem? They've never heard of blackmail? conflict of interest?
4
It is a failure of our democracy that people have to ask whether foreign interference in our elections should not be allowed, and whether our government should extort foreign governments to do so. How far have we fallen?
7
Ond of the greatest risks faced in any scheme of this kind is that of the subsequent threat of blackmail. Trump, in this case, has put himself in the position of requesting a “favor” of a foreign government...a favor that both knew would not stand the legal test of our Constitution, nor any of dozens of other ethical and moral considerations. And yet, he put us all at risk when he himself tried to (illegally) coerce, by threat, the actions of a foreign leader.
Trump is a danger to this country in every way imaginable. Those who know this, yet enable him for their own selfish gain are no better.
2
I agree that it is bad for the American public if a candidate or a party asks another nation or any foreigner for assistance of any kind in an election. It is potentially harmful because of the influence that foreign nation or person obtains by assisting in the election.
However, I disagree that a foreign nation that communicates directly to the American public should be prevented from doing so....even if the communications are lies. The public receives the same benefits from knowing information regardless whether the source of that information is domestic or foreign. Would you rather people be ignorant of important facts that affect the suitability of a candidate because American media either withheld it or failed to discover it?
Informed decisions are much more likely to be better decisions. Information is just as valuable whether it comes from a domestic or foreign source. The public's right to know is the most important consideration.
As for protecting lies as well as truth, that is simply the same issue always presented by freedom of speech. As soon as you allow censorship of untruth, you give those acting as censors the power to substitute their judgement of what is true for yours. That alone is sufficient reason to oppose censorship. But worse also results when censorship is practiced since censorship gives the censor the power to conceal truth that they do not want you to know.
If you are answering the questions, why didn't you put: "Is it illegal?" up at the top. Before talking of values and norms and any other word to describe the situation, the most important is "It's illegal." Talk about the laws he's breaking and broken. It's illegal.
1
Just a couple of things: It is astonishing, and speaks volume to the dire state of education in the US, that people don’t seem to get either the illegality of the action nor the glaring fact of the quid pro quo. (Let me paraphrase: “Oh, but you’ve got to do us a favor.” Then add context.) And this, purportedly, among NYT readers.
Second, while I appreciate the candor, you lost me with your claim that all US interference in foreign countries has been benign and animated by the loftiest of motives. Chile? Dominican Republic? Iraq? Iran? Central America? Even the conquest and genocide of the indigenous peoples of this continents document your contention’s inherent demagoguery.
Please don’t add to the ignorance while pretending to cure it.
5
To attempt to contrast American meddling in overseas affairs from Russia-gate, Ukraine-gate, etc., is akin to attempting to put lipstick on a pig. We have fought brutal wars with horrendous loss of life - Americans and others - to prop up one dictator over another simply because one said "we like you Yankee." This hypocrisy continues to this date so as we fight foreign meddling in our elections, at least spare us the indignation.
4
Why in heck hasn’t Trump been impeached for trying to block all investigations? There’s not an American alive who hasn’t seen that! And it doesn’t need explaining. Duh!
Are really Americans that stupid?
Sometimes is hard to understand how moral rectitude in the world was appropriated by the USA since end of the end of WWII.
Sad state of affairs when Americans have to ask WHY it's a problem for other countries to be involved in our elections. One thing is for sure, schools need to step up and take the responsibility of teaching history and civics, as well as current events much more seriously. I remember my high school classes in civics were scant, and stupendously boring. If we can't fix this, we will keep electing Trumps who can't or won't follow the Constitution.
1
"But experts have argued that modern American efforts are not morally equivalent to those in Russia. In recent decades, American efforts have been geared toward promoting candidates who challenge authoritarian leaders. Russian efforts, on the other hand, are meant to sow discord." Right, we're the "good guys." This is pure propaganda.
2
At least as large an issue is the fact that Trump appeared willing to withhold or deny aid that Congress had deemed important to Ukrainian military resistance against Russia. Withholding it therefore was contrary to United States interests, as evaluated by Congress. It was also (coincidentally?) beneficial to Putin and Russia.
8
Thank you TYT for educating the people that for whatever reasons they do not fully understand the Constitution.
5
Doesn't the US meddle in other countries? You forgot Australia in 1975.
As the investigation into impeachable offenses continue, Trump will add more confusion by more outrageous acts. It is how he operates. While I think keeping the investigation to one core complaint, that Trump was abusing his power, more abuses will emerge. I would like to drag into the fray his immorality, as the Republicans did with Clinton, but that would mean the case would be gigantic. Trump is already lying to the American people and shrugging off the importance of his actions, but he dare not testify before Congress. He knows full well that will mean the end of his Presidency. Consequently, he is fighting the whole impeachment process.
I submit Trump’s distancing from our allies is an abuse of his power. Our country needs our allies and for our treaties to be honored. An incoming President swears to uphold the laws, not change them to suit his private purposes. I submit his deregulating and gutting clean air, water and food regulations to enrich large industries is an abuse of power. Our citizens need clean air, water and food to survive and he is not promoting the general welfare. I would also question who is paying for the campaign rallies Trump holds almost weekly, and they are campaign rallies. Taxpayer monies should not be paying for them and if they are, that’s an abuse of power.
Most importantly, being made to pay attention to his inane ramblings, incoherent lies and illiterate tweets is the most abusive use of power.
6
And yet, will his use of tweets, be Viewed the same importance for future presidents in communication with the public, as JFK’s use of TV, and FDR’s use of the radio. If the brain using the tweets would it be viewed as a good thing?
1
President Obama warned the Supreme Court and Congress that the Citizens United decision would lead to greater influence of foreign dark money on our elections.
Remember the Russian money funneled through the NRA to help Republicans win the Senate. It was just one avenue (among many) of foreign influence. Once compromised, it is very difficult for corrupt actors to protest that it’s gone too far.
Who among the Republicans will have the courage to admit that our current troubles are of an even higher order of magnitude?
12
We...Will...Not Get Over It
6
Because other nations might expect in something in return for such a favor?
4
Unless of course the country in question is Israel.
4
The allegations on Donald J. Trump being investigated mount to abuse of presidential powers and numerous possible emolument clause violations.
We have videotaped comments today by POTUS complaining that the emoluments clause in our Constitution prohibiting any individual profiting from their high office is PHONY. He has violated our Constitution on almost a daily basis by profiting off his Trump Hotel down the street from the White House. That’s just one instance out in the open. It’s phony to Trump because he can’t make money. Shameful coming from a duly elected President of the United States who won’t obey the law!
6
Do readers of the Times actually ask these questions? We are more educated than this, are we not?
3
@Randy Buist Apparently the NYT has been reading the comments on the articles they print and found them shockingly ignorant so they have decided to give classes on how things are supposed to work.
@Randy Buist
I thought of that also. Maybe those who asked those questions only watch Faux no new, or other trump stations.
Only listen to Hate radio.
American interference in other nations affairs is par for the course... Yet Americans lose their minds when Russia interferes in America.
Most recently, it wasn't proper decorum for former President Obama to publicly endorse Trudeau in Canada... Nor was it proper for American money to fund a long visit to Canada by Greta Thunberg the week prior to Canada's federal election.
1
I submit that it would be more cost effective to send Rudy five blocks down to the Trump International Hotel to root out corruption. My spies report that a drink @ the bar is ONLY $25!
3
@Peter Close
Rudy plants corruption, he can't root it out. After 2 $25.00 dirty martinis he can't root out where he left his umbrella.
Whatever is problematic about the efforts of Trump and his delegates to enlist the aid of Ukraine, it is *not* the evil of foreign powers trying to bend our elections towards their own selfish ends. Ukraine is a pawn, not a player.
2
well it's the same as asking another country to lock up some ones loved one. Trump could have every journalist and Democrat locked up if he gets away with this.
“But experts have argued that modern American efforts are not morally equivalent to those in Russia.”
I do believe that the US has also messed with other country’s elections in a morally wrong way in modern days as well, but even so, two wrongs don’t make a right.
2
I expect there will be other impeachment trials on other subjects as this gets going. The Entertainer in Chief is doing an excellent job but now Washington is essentially useless. The states now need to step in.
1
Given our media culture, Republicans would need to see video of Trump done up like Joker or Voldemort cackling insanely as fires burned and bats flew, pulling the heart out of some poor guy like in that Indiana Jones film. Or at a minimum, one of the Bond super-villains. For them, that is evil. A guy walking around in a suit talking to reporters can't be evil. If Marlon Brando's Don Corleone was real, they wouldn't believe he ordered all those horrifying killings and horsehead-in-the-bed things either.
2
Why are some Americans blinded by their ignorance of spying and war and politics? Anyone that thinks it’s ok to engage foreign governments to spy on AMERICANS is living in a fantasy world. Imagine criminal gangs around the world stalking American tourists in order to get political information to sell to the highest bidder.
2
To start with, Trump's win in 2016 should be treated with suspicion, Russian influence was an unresolved issue; besides
FBI chief Mr. Comey's untimely disclosure of Clinton emails might also affected that outcome. In other words, Trump's presidency has been based on shaky ground.
6
Trump recently described the Emoluments Clause as phoney. Now even parts of the Constitution are fake news.
10
@Mary M Trump has just added another reason for impeachment, failure to uphold the constitution of the United States.
1
>Unlike Joe Biden's trip to Ukraine, Mr. Trump wasn't asking for a corrupt prosector to be removed in exchange for investments and loan guarantees worked out by the State Department, Justice Department, White House, IMF, and 38 countries of the E.U. No, Mr. Trump was asking for personal help to cast doubt on the Mueller report and get dirt on his leading political opponent. That's flat out illegal.
In addition to the sliminess and the illegality of this president's attempt to leverage Ukraine for personal and political gain, consider this. By freezing aid that had already been approved by Congress without providing that same body an explanation (we now know exactly why an explanation would not have been forthcoming despite repeated inquiries), the WH usurped our second branch of goverment's power of the purse. No legislator should stand for that. And this is at least the second time this administration has dismissed the budgetary decisions made by Congress, which is supposed to represent the people; please remember the "emergency" declared at our southern border in order to score political points.
12
Don’t we all wish that our children are children all had the same advantage and getting jobs as our elected officials children do. Such is life.
Trump never has, and never will, understand the difference between working for himself and working for the country. It's ONLY FOR HIMSELF, the narcissist.
10
This piece baffles me.
The “educational” tone of the news in NYT makes it almost impossible to find descriptions, and only that, of facts and events.
This particular post does mention “readers asked” but that in itself only reinforces the sense that the opinion and judgment we should expect in a news outlet has left the Opinion and Editorial Pieces.
The common “what you should know” news title is another example that leaves me even more concerned. More times than not, I end up feeling reading a “what you should think about what you should know”.
And by the way, if the average NYTimes reader does not understand the damage done by the actions described in the article, it comes to show that US citizens are completely oblivious and uninformed about corruption.
13
Correct...the average US citizen can't point out Washington DC on a map..Syria may as well be in outer space...Education is seriously lacking in our country. Don't ever over estimate the school systems ...they stink.
Trump's Ukraine quid pro quo and “get over it” spin, explicitly sends a public message that the constitution is irrelevant. If we accept that, and if he is not impeached, it allows him to trample on the constitution whenever he wants in the future.
14
"Asking a foreigner for aid in an American political campaign is illegal" -- not it isn't: Steele, a foreigner, was hired to find dirt on Trump. Asking a foreign _government_ (not simply a foreigner) is illegal, which is what the F.E.C. head quoted in your article says. Using official powers to pressure foreign governments for help is especially bad, since this creates an uneven playing field -- opponents not in power can't do it.
6
When I just knew that Democrats wanted to impeach President Trump for asking the Ukrainians to investigate Joe Biden's son for doing business in the former USSR, and for conflict of interest, I saw nothing wrong with it, and, as importantly, nothing the Democrats have any business going after Trump for.
Democrats have been pursuing Trump hard for years, for doing business in the former USSR with conflict of interest.
Either that behavior is illegal or it is not. What is more, it was the Democrats' reaction that called attention to Biden's engaging in behavior that the Democrats have successfully convinced most people in this country is illegal, and necessarily corrupt. He just lost the primary, if he can ever admit to being wrong or not.
The growing evidence that Trump and his cronies mixed extortion into what would otherwise have been legitimate requests changed everything. So did the fact that most people around him in the White House believed he was doing something egregiously wrong.
3
It's not doing business in Russia, etc, that is the problem, it's that Trump denied doing business; any business, at any time; in Russia, and that was exposed as yet another lie in the endless, tawdry cavalcade of lies from His Excellency, Donald J Trump, President of the United States.
9
Every Latin American military dictatorship in post war history pretty much owed their existence to American coordination and weapons. Soo... People love to say "both are wrong" but clearly have so little sense of proportion that it's laughable. A few million bucks for FB ads. What about Turkey and the KSA versus Qatari influence and competition?
Did the Founders value diplomacy at the highest levels? While Gen. Washington kept the army in the field, John Adams was ambassador to the Dutch, while Franklin courted the French, to be succeeded by Jefferson. Madison and Monroe were both Secretary of State before their presidencies and the Monroe Doctrine. JQ Adams was the most accomplished diplomat of the early Republic. And so on. If there were an origin to the diplomatic 'Deep State', those 5 presidents would be it.
Trump and Friends have only disdain for merely being highly qualified for the job. That is because they really do not understand what the job is. Trump's checkered experiences in real estate do not qualify him for being a surgeon or a doctor or astronaut, or even a general. Yet he and his fanboys continue to insist it proves he is id just super-duper for being president. And they tell me that I'm the one who just doesn't get it???
14
The history elaborated here clearly indicates the Republicans disrespect for the US Constitution. The irony is that Republican Conservative Judges claim to be originalists. They must have a unique definition of that term that allows its violation when committed by fellow travellers.
8
@Kevinlarson
"The irony is that Republican Conservative Judges claim to be originalists. They must have a unique definition of that term that allows its violation when committed by fellow travellers."
Correct ... they seek originality in arriving at perverse interpretations of the Constitution to fit the outcome they seek.
2
The unapologetic ignorance of the American people is proof enough to show how an entertainer/real estate thug like Donald Trump could be elected president in 2016.
That the New York Times has to explain to its readers that quid pro quo in this circumstance is criminal, unethical and impeachable is hard to believe .
It goes to show that tyranny and fascism can only thrive in environments which are laced with ignorance and fear. We are proving that theory true once again....
32
We are a sovereign nation. We are not "citizens of the world," but subjects of our own Constitution and the various laws and treaties.
Any incursion upon our sovereignty, by any nation for any reason, should be met with a swift, severe and decisive response. It is even more the case when that incursion is prompted and further promoted by the commander in chief, who should no doubt then be held to account for treason.
Everyone living in the United States, and expats living abroad, should consider the president's daily threats against our sovereignty a grave and moral wrong. Donald Trump dismissively undermines this great nation, inviting foreign interference and using the office of the president for his own gain.
For that he should face imprisonment (or worse, possibly unprintable, consequences).
It is indeed time to stand up and take to the streets in protest as we did for the Women's March.
13
Substitute China (or Russia) for Ukraine in such foreign dealings with a candidate and this becomes a path for installing a puppet president in the United States, beholden to China (or Russia).
9
@Dr. George
Are you so sure there is not one already?
2
Think about it. Why would Trump want to help any country that’s threatened by his best buddy Vladimir Putin? Whatever he agreed to do for Ukraine was probably totally ineffective against Russian aggression but just enough to sell the Ukrainians on the illusion that Trump wants to “help” them. One thing is true, if there’s a nation that can put up a heck of a fight against conventional Russian forces- it’s Ukraine. If Putin attempts to annex any additional Ukrainian territory it will be confronted with the second largest military that borders Russia, second only to China. Plus, if Putin thinks about busting out some nukes- the fallout will rain down on all of Russia’s major population centers. So? What’s a dictator to do?
2
For those who don’t understand the seriousness of Trump seeking foreign assistance in his re-election, perhaps you should ask yourselves what it might mean if this became the new norm? If you let this pass you should first extrapolate the implications outwards. For instance if it’s okay for president’s to seek foreign assistance, then your very lengthy election campaigns won’t just be directed at Americans. Both sides of politics would campaign to get the support of foreign governments, seeing how many other countries they can get on side. You can imagine candidates competing with each other to get billions from say the Chinese government. You could imagine them saying “you want the South China Sea, you want Taiwan, you want a better trade deal if I’m President, sure but I’ll need a favour though with my election campaign...”. A foreign country could effectively take over the US without a drop of blood being spilled. The framers of your Constitution made accepting foreign help a “high crime and misdemeanour” for good reason. At the time, they probably feared that Britain would try to hijack the political process and effectively undo the loss of the American war of independence, but the principle behind it is just as relevant today and is very applicable to Russia and China. So you really shouldn’t just “get over it.”
21
Foreign policy is the red herring. Can we PLEASE STOP helping him advance his coverup by talking about foreign policy. Does any one expect us to believe his interest in Biden was about foreign policy???
6
Thank you for this succinct analysis.
The fact that you had to explain why this Quid Pro Quo was criminal, especially for those college educated men and women who voted for Trump, is a bit horrifying.
26
The Presidents opponent can't blackmail foreign governments for help to win the election, so Trump supporters, how about the simple fact of Trump is cheating in order to win.
7
Did anyone think that asking the NYT this question, if it is even true that anyone actually asked the Times this question, they would get an honest answer?
4
@John Gilday
Is there anything about the answers given that appears untrue? Please tell us what is untrue in this article.
9
What about their answer are you attempting to say was incorrect?
@Timothy Samara
For starters there's nary a mention of Steele.
What exactly is the difference between Giuliani and Steele? Beside the fact that only one is an American citizen and can legally contribute material help to a campaign?
1
The Biden’s blatant cronyism and foreign influence is getting on my last good nerve.
6
Hey Charlie but Trumps violation of the Constitution and fundamental democratic norms doesn’t get on that nerve.
7
Ari Melber Points out the crime of bribery is well defined in the Constitution and it applies:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/10/19/bribery-is-right-there-constitution-trump-could-be-impeached-that/
6
My view of a foreign country exercising influence over an election in the United States comes down to a very simple and basic concept: Our leaders are elected by votes from eligible US citizens. No foreign power should be permitted to manipulate a voter in the United States in any form or fashion.
Anyone who asks a foreign power to influence a US voter has betrayed the sanctity of the the vote and loyalty to this country.
17
Sooooo , that hill that Reagan`s Shining City is sitting on is actually a garbage dump ? The Trump-Kushner crime family doesn't seem to mind or notice.
6
It is also quite possible that the Ukrainian governement would interpret Trump/Guiliani's request to reinvestigate a closed investigation as a request to find guilt (even if they need to invent something). By operating outside of normal diplomatic channels, this is implied.
13
Just to clarify something Republicans continually push and the press repeatedly fails to correct - Quid Pro Quio is NOT a legal standard required for impeachment. Though how anyone who has read the summary of Mr. Trump's call would not conclude it was indeed a Quid Pro Quio is beyond me.
15
@Susan
The only reason the quid pro quo is important is because it means the President unilaterally defied Congress's appropriation of arms funds and its implementation—that is the illegal part. The President can not lawfully interfere with Congress's power of the purse.
3
@Timothy, no, he clearly held back funds that were assigned by Congress without any point of National interest. Defying Congress in the use of its powers - impeachable. No qpq required.
2
This article is quite clear about Trump's illegal misdoings, but it persists in extending the canard that Trump, Mulvaney and the other regime lackeys try to foist off on the public every day: that there was no quid pro quo. What they apparently are trying to argue is that unless those three Latin words are uttered, there was no wrongdoing.
Which, of course, is ludicrous. Quid pro quo does not appear in the Constitution; it is a term that describes a suggested trade of a benefit for some kind of responsive action. I'll give you two tickets to the World Series if you drive my car to Houston is a harmless example.
But when Trump suggests to Ukranian President Zelensky, just after discussing the release of Congressionally authorized military funds, that "there's something that I want you to do though and it involves looking into Joe Biden and his son" is an illegal act by the President -- an impeachable offense -- even if the words "quid pro quo" are never uttered. What he said in the phone transcript is a workable definition of a quid pro quo, and does not need the imprimatur of those words to be unlawful.
Geez!
18
I’m over it because I’m thrilled that the Liar in Chief and his lying minions are getting caught in their lies.
Thanks Mulvaney for moving us once step closer to impeachment!
11
“Quid pro quo” - it sounds so terribly sinister. Shady and illegal.
In reality, it is how humans operate.
We are transactional beings to the core. “I’ll give you that iPhone IF you give me $1,000”.
Politicals in general, and foreign policy specifically, is also transactional.
Had Trump tied the aid to “digging up dirt” on a rival - that would be one thing. But it appears he was asking for an investigation into the former actions of a sitting VP.
1
It sounds illegal because, in this case, it is illegal.
10
@Brando Flex
the former VP, however, is NOW a declared candidate for the President's job, making him a rival. if Trump was so concerned about 2016 Biden corruption, why did he wait until the fall of 2019 to investigate it? why not start the investigation in January 2017?
6
Why is this so hard to understand? You agree that he was asking for dirt on Biden, “former actions of a sitting VP.” Biden is a front runner to run against him in 2020. C’mon man.
1
Doesn't the fact that Trump directed civil servants to participate in activities to benefit his reelection campaign mean those CSs violated the Hatch Act? The Pres & VP and a few others are exempt, but that they directed other government employees to do so seems like another problem that I've not heard any reporting on.
7
Agreed. The President used his public office for personal gain. He used his power as the chief foreign policy official to request another country to attempt to dig up political dirt on his opponent. The President then used the apparatus of government to further that plan. We can’t permit the use of the state to investigate political or personal rivals. We can’t permit the occupier of the Oval Office to order the FBI or the CIA to investigate the incumbent’s primary or general election rivals. Political ends should not dictate criminal prosecutions. Neither should they influence foreign policy.
4
@Sigma0
It is a nuanced difference but political appointees are not civil service. The Hatch act is less restrictive on political appointees than on members of the civil service (whether it should be is a discussion for the next Congress).
2
It is more and more obvious, as this impeachment process goes on, that America’s teaching of civics and American history is deplorable. Not that teachers haven’t tried. Even our elected representatives are ignorant. So here we have the NYT trying to offer a quickie history lesson.
I am now 81 years old and am more and more appalled at the ignorance and even more, the stupidity, of Americans, and especially of our representatives. That we have such a dumb President is bad enough; that we also have such ignorance in our electorate will be deadly.
I have news for the NYT: Trump’s base doesn’t read your paper. Most Americans don’t. I suggest that you take this column and post it on Facebook and Twitter and other such damaging social media. Maybe you’ll reach some people.
23
@ASW It's not the teaching, it's the learning. Or even managing to be interested enough in anything but flipping thru FB to like stuff.
5
@ASW I am also in my 80's and I read a lot of papers ( all on the internet) from all different states. If more people would read and not just newspapers, but non fiction books about government and be partisan in their thinking, we would get along better. However, most people just read the headlines. They do not have the attention span that older people have. The youngest just want things NOW and digitally. We just started getting an actual newspaper but 90% is out of state from other newspapers. Has information gone the way of only social media??
3
Trump’s campaign manager asked Russia for 2020 election assistance.
Lee Stranahan works for Sputnik, which is a registered agent of the Russian Federation and part of Putin’s disinformation warfare machine targeted at the U.S.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexandraChalup/status/1182054908905832448
6
This isn't the first republican president running for reelection that has done this, or at least wanted to. During President GW Bush's reelection campaign, in "October 1992, four Republican congressmen showed up in the Oval Office with an audacious recommendation. Bush was losing his re-election race, and they told him the only way to win was to hammer his challenger Bill Clinton’s patriotism for protesting the Vietnam War while in London and visiting Moscow as a young man"
"They wanted us to contact the Russians or the British to seek information on Bill Clinton’s trip to Moscow,” James A. Baker III, Mr. Bush’s White House chief of staff, wrote in a memo later that day. “I said we absolutely could not do that.”
So it seems that the republican party has a long history of doing tawdry things to stay in power. Nixon wanted to stall the peace negotiations until AFTER the election. Reagan wanted the Iranians to hold the hostages until AFTER the election (which happened). Then you have Bush, and company considering violating the law. Just considering violating the law, tells you all you need to to know about the Republican party.
It's also worth noting, that during that time the republicans actually did investigate the GOPs conspiracy theory that Clinton has renounced his citizenship. The AG at the time appointed a special
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/us/politics/
3
These grifters -- trump and his gang -- find the Constitution a real hindrance to their ascension to the throne. First that silly idea of the rule of law, then the establishment of a free press, obstruction, the emollients clause -- it all has to go.
Obviously the adults have left the white house.
The republicans want a dictatorship, it appears, that that's where it's going.
Impeach and imprison.
11
Dear Everyone who is arguing that Trump should be off the hook,
1. Export this article to MS Word
2. Do a find/replace of the word Trump, and replace with the word Obama.
3. Reconsider your opinion.
4. Look in mirror and say, “I’m a hypocrite just like my Republican Senators.”
Oh, and since you, like your Republican Senators are completely shameless, I have no expectations step 4 gets executed.
Signed,
Are you kidding me that any newspaper had to actually write this article.
24
Who could possibly not understand it to be wrong to use ones office, any office, to extort another for personal gain?
The only way the lies trump et al are telling about the "perfect" phone call can work is if we ignore the facts.
1. They twisted the truth about VP Biden asking for Shockin to be fired. Shockin was not investigating Burisma and several other entities that he should have been investigating. That is why Biden asked for him to be removed, and it was at the behest of our State Department and President Obama not on his own initiative.
2. They are also trying to make one of the lies told to undermine the fact of Russians helping Trump in our election come true by innuendo. The lie is that the "server" (I am not sure which one but does it matter??) that is supposedly missing is in Ukraine and proves that HRC/DNC conspired with Ukraine to upset our election. I guess we are supposed to ignore the part where everything illicit that happened hurt HRC/DNC and helped Trump. Thus if they get the Ukrainian government to say they have opened an investigation into the matter they have what they want for the 2020 election which is all they wanted all along.
1
Seriously? How may candidates don't look for 'dirt' on their competition. If there was a definite quid pro quo then that does require investigation as well as the Bidens role in Ukraine.
What I also find intriguing is why no-one is asking why Hilary Clinton received $10m from Ukraine.
3
@Gary
You miss the whole point. Yes They look for dirt, but do so domestically, not in asking foreign countries for help which is illegal.
Hillary didn't get the money, her foundation got the money.
But talking about money, Flynn, Manafort and others did get money from foreign countries w/o disclosing the fact they were working for Ukraine and turkey, which is illegal.
13
@Gary
To add to Skip's reply, the things they were trying to get Ukraine to investigate were known lies. The VP was enacting national policy by asking for Shockin to be removed/ Shockin was not investigating Burisma which is one of the problems that caused our government to ask for his removal. Also in the intervening years the Ukraine did look into this and found no wrongdoing on Hunter Biden's part. The shady Prosecutor with no legal training Lutsenko who was conspiring with Ghouliani to invent a new accusation said so himself no less than 3 times in front of a camera after this thing blew up. He also absconded and moved to London t5o improve his English. Lutsenko the prosecutor with no legal experience was apparently hoping to hook Ghouliani and Trump with this favor as a way to keep his job or maybe even get help tp move up.
6
@Gary
In this country it is against the law to solicit campaign help from a foreign power.
Did Hillary Clinton hold up military aid approved by Congress in order to get the other country to manufacture dirt on her opponent?
Seriously.
10
Attaching conditions to foreign aid is neither unusual or nor illegal.
The investigation into the Biden/Burisma connection began in 2016. It was discontinued after the Obama administration threaten to withhold billions in U.S. aid from Ukraine unless it fired its prosecutor general and cracked down on corruption.
In March 2019, Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yuri Lutsenko reopened the investigation into Burisma and its ties to the Biden family.
During the July 2019 phone call. President Trump asked Ukrainian President Zelensky as a “favor” to “look into” the investigation. Zelensky enthusiastically agreed. He said, “The investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore honesty, so we will taker care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. On top of that, I would kindly asked if you have any additional information you can provide to us.”
Afterward, Zelensky told reporters that “There was no pressure or blackmail from the U.S.” He also said he was unaware that the United States ever considered withholding military aid.
The Treaty With Ukrainian on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters requires the United States and Ukraine to assist each other in the conduct of criminal investigations. The Senate will not convict Trump for asking Ukraine to comply with its treaty obligations as a favor
2
It doesn’t matter what Zelensky said, it matters what the facts are.
9
Except, well, the President was holding up Congressionally approved aid to get Ukraine's leadership to help him perpetuate a sham investigation to damsge a political rival. That sort of thing has been called a High Crime since the Constitution.
3
@William Case
Wow!
A serious misstatement of facts that suggests bad faith.
Biden joined with the IMF, EU, World Bank, and Republicans and Democrats from this country in seeking the dismissal of Prosecutor General Shokin, because Shokin was impeding corruption investigations.
Lutsenko was dismissed by the new President because of his own corruption.
3
The premise of this article is no one in D.C uses quid-pro-quo or bargaining chips.
Congress uses earmarks in bills all the time, but those are not quid-pro-quo?
Oh I get it, the real premise is .. because Trump.
2
@Bhaskar
"The premise of this article is no one in D.C uses quid-pro-quo or bargaining chips."
Um, no. Not in the slightest. Try again.
8
@Bhaskar
No. Completely incorrect. And no, it's not because "trump".
Quid pro quos as bargaining in legislative processes is perfectly fine. The problem here is that a president—who represents ALL of the US People, not just himself as a politician—used the power of his office to enlist FOREIGN AID against his personal political rival. Any president who does that should be impeached. it just happens to be that THIS ONE is Trump. If it were a Democrat, I would have the same opinion.
6
Isn’t this business as usual ? The Times answers NO, but ask a lot of the public, especially Republican voters and they would answer YES. Part of their YES response would be that everyone does it but we just don't know about it most of the time. The failure to be shocked is why half the country is now deciding its a bunch of hoopla over nothing. Even Republican legislators might say to themselves "Yeah not good, but also not so unexpected that we should kick the guy out of office". When you assume that NOBODY has integrity anymore, and that is considered normal, this is what you get. And when you have your own party looking at their feet and staying silent, all it does is validate that integrity is in short supply compared to longing for job security. Protecting a democracy is tough because it might involve falling on your own sword in the process. I unfortunately find few willing to do so. The most disappointing aspect here is that nobody sees a cause really worth fighting for. Let me be clear Democratic legislators don't get a pass or a high five... supporting impeachment was easy for them as it aligned with their personal interests. But Republican legislators ... wow, just leaves one disappointed doesn't it, you expect some kind of ethical maturity. Principles only matter when they are challenged and there is personal cost in defending them. On that test, using the "whats in it for me ?" metric it's a sad and sorry state where we find ourselves now.
10
How much money, taxpayers hard earned dollars does Mulvaney steal from us and then lie for Trump. Then he tells us in essence - shut up and don’t question us ! We do whatever we need to in order to get our way. We will cheat and lie. And you can just take it. Does that sound like our America? Our USA? I resent every penny he steals in being part of this corrupt group.
7
@Elly
Well put!
2
"Thing of value," eh???? What, precisely, has NO value??? God I truly hate lawyers. They get paid to say what their clients tell them to say, then they have the gall to charge Trump with being dishonest when he's actually the most honest of all, except for being a blowhard. If the Republicans cave to this impeachment pressure, it's only because they are all lawyers, too. As lawyers and politicians, they respond to bullies like the Democrats. And make no mistake. The Democrats are bullies, and pretty good ones, at that.
Thing of value here means an Act of State which Trump perceived to materially aid his political prospects. It's really not so hard to understand, and it is quite forbidden for any politician to so solicit a foreign power.
3
@ben Actually, no. That's not what the law says. It's what others say it means. Big difference.
Hmm. I don't recall the NYT criticizing Obama for heartily endorsing Trudeau this week. Isn't that 'foreign influence' of an election??
4
@Chuck Greenberg
Wow, the false equivalences some people will try are amazing.
9
What Obama did was out in the open, public, recorded etc. and he is no longer a public servant.... What Trump did was secret and self-serving, had nothing to do with advancing the interests of the US, and he is a public servant.
11
@Chuck Greenberg
A public endorsement is not foreign influence.
Obama is a private citizen.
Your example is a false equivalence.
6
Oh my word! So he wants, no demands dirt on his opponents to give them the funds already allocated. They need that money. What do you think that leader would do to satisfy our leader? Have false evidence made up? You betcha! Then we get false accusations verified. Right now we need to stop this nonsense. Grow up America! This administration will and have sold you a bill of goods from the day he started saying President Obama was not born here. How many lies do you swallow before it chokes you?
9
Who is asking this question? Would you not think our Intelligence agencies have all you need to know versus a country like Ukraine? No offense but last I checked they desperately need our help, not vice versa. Another reason he needs to be impeached, he is an idiot.
6
Trump had the notion of being an imperial president years in advance when asked as a young man about a possible political career. He knew his ideas would be unpopular and also that a president -- the right president -- could restore the nation's past glory. He even gave a rationale. Respect. Which meant other nations emulating us after we had established our supremacy. Anyone who does not think this all existed in the open was paying no attention.
3
Having the president of the United States owe you a favor is probably the most valuable possession another country or president can have. We don't know exactly what favor Erdogan did or promised to do for Trump, but it was enough for him to sellout not only the Kurds, but the United States as well.
In one of those many secret telephone calls with China, Trump could offer a trade deal worth billions if not trillions of dollars in exchange for a phony indictment of Biden
9
@bmz
Unfortunately, he has already damaged Biden; he'll be going on to Elizabeth Warren next if we don't get him impeached and removed.
1
Like may other commentators I'm stunned that the blatant disenfranchisement of the voting community that this represents is somehow acceptable. Whataboutism has normalized corruption. It will be a long climb back from the bottom of this well.
23
Oh yes, we’ll get over it when we get Trump out of the White House.
7
President Obama is publicly supporting Justin Trudeau in the Canadian election. President Trump has campaigned for Bibi Netenyahu on Twitter.
"But experts have argued that modern American efforts are not morally equivalent to those in Russia"
Those experts are right. What the US has done in other countries is far, far worse than what Russia is doing to the US. Remember that little country known as Iraq that you invaded under false pretenses for the express purpose of overthrowing their government?
The US has no leg to stand on when complaining about foreign attempts to influence American politics. As always with the US, it's "do as I say, not as I do".
3
Nobody is complaining about that. What we can’t have is our president asking other countries for help. Ukraine will say anything to get the money they desperately need.
11
One of many differences is that it is “former” President Obama...
10
Here's what bugs me:
1. Trump continues to insist his call with President Zelensky was "perfect".
2. The White House released an official summary of that call where Zelensky says, "I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes." Trump responds with, "I would like you to do us a favor though....."
3. Trump rants about the exaggerated/satirical summary of the call that Schiff gave (AFTER the transcript had been published.)
I want to see someone (journalist? Republican congressperson with guts?) say to Trump, "It doesn't matter WHAT Schiff said; no one cares what he said. The transcript of the call is plenty bad enough. THAT is what is considered impeachable. Do you understand that?"
Similarly, I'd argue that Trump's continued claim that, "Doral in Miami would have been the best place to hold the G-7", even after backing off of that plan due to political pressure shows that he does NOT understand what a huge conflict of interest that would be. I would love to see an interview where he is asked, "Do you really not understand that?"
I'm honestly not sure whether he does or not.
12
He’s in the hospitality business.
2
@Val
That's fine but he cannot also simultaneously be in the "head of government" business.
1
Soliciting help from a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political rival, as pointed out, is illegal. It's a crime, and the House Of Representatives would be derelict if they were not pursuing impeachment against this scofflaw President.
15
@Mark McIntyre
And oddly, this isn't the first republican president running for reelection that has done this, or at least wanted to. During President GW Bush's reelection campaign, in "October 1992, four Republican congressmen showed up in the Oval Office with an audacious recommendation. Bush was losing his re-election race, and they told him the only way to win was to hammer his challenger Bill Clinton’s patriotism for protesting the Vietnam War while in London and visiting Moscow as a young man"
"They wanted us to contact the Russians or the British to seek information on Bill Clinton’s trip to Moscow,” James A. Baker III, Mr. Bush’s White House chief of staff, wrote in a memo later that day. “I said we absolutely could not do that.”
So it seems that the republican party has a long history of doing tawdry things to stay in power. Nixon wanted to stall the peace negotiations until AFTER the election. Reagan wanted the Iranians to hold the hostages until AFTER the election (which happened). Then you have Bush, and company considering violating the law. Just considering violating the law, tells you all you need to to know about the Republican party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/us/politics/trump-foreign-influence.html
2
Another way to explain this: even the possibility of an ulterior motive taints any kind of human transaction, from social, family and business relationships to presidential actions.
It's why people who buy beach cottages learn to be skeptical of old "friends" and distant relatives renewing connections.
It's propelled a number of articles and other written pieces about disillusionment when social media becomes a vehicle for acquaintances to pitch their products.
It's what was implied by much of the vicious anti-Obama smear campaigns.
It's why government employment applications require full disclosure of group membership and was behind blackmail concerns.
Some of Mr. Trump's defenders say that his motives aren't ulterior because they're displayed openly and publicly. But that doesn't necessarily make them acceptable.
5
Trump and his enablers have trashed our Constitution in so many ways , a Constitution he swore to protect.
They are proud of this even selling tee shirts with ‘ Get over it” emblazoned on them.
This is disrespectful of the majority of Americans who do value our Constitution.
Maybe the Democrats need to sell a tee shirt with “ We are better than this” Not only is it true but it honors the memory of the Great Elijah Cummings .
All proceeds to a charity supported by his family
I will proudly wear such a tee shirt every day of the week
12
Don’t worry about a conventional war, open your eyes to the real threat of a global nuclear holocaust and the end of 7.7 billion humans on earth.
On Sept. 24, 1996, the United States and the world's other major nuclear powers signed a treaty to end all testing and development of nuclear weapons. Do you believe all nations having nuclear capabilities are being good boys and girls?
Man will self destruct whether by global warming climate or a global nuclear holocaust. May God protect us from our selves.
I've heard of the ultimate "doomsday bomb". Humans use most of their resources for their preoccupation with destruction, and that has impeded man's ability to cure diseases such as Alzheimer's, Ebola, Polio, Lupus Erythematosus, Influenza, Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, Diabetes, HIV/AIDS, Asthma, Cancer, and the common cold.
4
That the Times would need to answer this question explicitly to their readers (?) plunges this retired school teacher into utter despair!
13
But is OK when the US interferes in other countries elections.
Like when the Obama State Dept. paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxpayers grants to an Israeli group that used the money to build a campaign to oust Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/12/obama-admin-sent-taxpayer-money-oust-netanyahu/
4
Yes, that’s okay.
1
@KR: The Washington Times? Instead of using another factually suspect conservative news source like this, why not use something more credible to back up your point.
You'll look smarter, too.
6
We don't want foreign countries interfering in our elections, but we have no problem in interfering in the elections of other countries. I think America needs to stop interfering in other countries internal affairs.
4
Elect a shady lying cheating businessman to the Presidency then you can expect him to use the same shady business practices that he used in business (that he learned from his father and Roy Cohen). No surprise here. This kinda behavior is common in business where the goal is flat out to make as much money as fast as possible regardless of ethics or laws.
10
Isn’t this a wall which the government is supposed to build, akin to illegal immigration?
1
The NYT can explain why asking a foreign government to assist in an internal election is illegal until Mar A Lago is washed out to sea. The person who most needs to read it never will.
9
If people are really asking these questions, we really are a doomed nation.
5
What’s really frightening is if you read today’s article about the FL voters (especially the women voters) and then ask your question.
These voters are die hard trump supporters who believe their healthcare and welfare will be taken away from them if trump is out of office. It’s possible that they may never understand or want to understand a different point of view, but now I understand why they hold fast to trump.
The Dems need to be very coherent, honest and clear explaining healthcare plans.
Thankfully these are not the only voters in FL.
7
Judy, the old axiom applies, “You can’t help, ‘stupid’”
But if you’re a Republican politician, you sure can take advantage of it! (I think Karl Rove coined this phrase.)
4
Well, it's a bad thing that we have to have a newspaper column devoted to, "Is this a bad thing?"
But, in days like these, it's a darn tootin' good thing we have a newspaper column devoted to, "Is this a bad thing?"
7
trump claims to be a builder. (Even if true, physically speaking, I doubt he ever put hammer to nail.)
In his new turn as reality-star politician, the only thing he has built is a division in this country. Some may argue it wasn’t he who built it, and/or he simply unveiled it... regardless, he has put his own stamp on this divide and made it in his own image.
No less a person than President Abraham Lincoln stated that a house divided against itself shall not stand. trump has divided this country, continues to work that division daily in word and deed, and will therefore leave quite a legacy.
The only ones who can undo this onslaught against the once proud United States of America are the voters of this country. We shall either vote him and his backers out to start the long process of healing, or give trump et al more tools of destruction and time to wield them to complete his end goal.
2
The people asking these questions must be very young indeed. The answers are so elementary!
Why don't we want foreign countries involved in our elections? Because foreign countries have different interests than we do.
Are protections against this kind of thing in place? Yes, since at least 1787.
What was the quid pro quo on the Ukraine call? It was when he implied that unfreezing aid would only happen after Ukraine did an investigation.
So what's the problem? Everything.
Is this illegal? Yes.
Isn't this business as usual? No.
Doesn't the US meddle in other countries? Yes, but it's as irrelevant to this discussion as "water tastes good".
Has this happened in previous US elections? No, not really.
If you're uncertain on these points, should you really be… you know… living independently without court-ordered assistance?
23
"Readers have asked The New York Times to explain why, exactly, another nation’s interference in the democratic process is such a serious issue."
Seriously? What "readers" need this explained to them?
6
"But experts have argued that modern American efforts are not morally equivalent to those in Russia."
Oh please. What a pathetic cop-out. The fact that America has no just business thwarting the political process in other countries is patently plain. This does not exonerate Trump, but stop being so weaselly, NYT.
7
Has anyone ever heard someone use the phrase "Get over it" that wasn't guilty as sin?
The manner and tone in which Mulvaney said "Get over it" sounded like something a rapist would say to his victim after the fact.
I have a feeling we'll all get over it, as soon as Donald Trump and his bool-licking toadies like Muvlaney are gone. Either impeached, removed from office, or in jail - Preferably all three, so as to send a clear message to any future con-artists to stay out of public office.
9
I see Ivanka is there with her two lobbyists.
3
It would appear to me that Mulvaney's get over it remark was directed at the American public as well as the media and I, for one, resent his rudeness. Of course, Trump couldn't care less what we think.
6
Get over it,” Mr. Mulvaney told reporters at the White House. “There’s going to be political influence in foreign policy.”
Which is sort of like defending a bank robbery with "Get over it, there's going to be money changing hands in banks."
6
Get over it. Indeed! This is the language of an abuser. An abuser of the rule of law and an insult to the idea of moral integrity. I only hope to live long enough to see this entire gang of thugs thrust from Washington and paraphrasing the worst of them, Mr. Trump, locked up. Ugh.
I want my America back, please.
8
So when the U.S. agreed to support a corrupt S Vietnamese government as long as they blocked the advancement of Communist sympathizers that wasn’t a quid pro quo arrangement? When we supported Osama Bin Laden as long as he supported our interest in the Middle East that wasn’t a quid pro quo arrangement? And how does an ex-drug-abusing American get to sit on a foreign company’s board and rake in a monthly $50k income. Why is it that so many of our elected officials are involved with shady deals? No wonder we spend so much time pointing our fingers at each other vs solving the real problems of this country. Frustrating!!!
3
"Fear god and the stupidity of the populace..." Ezra Pound, from the "Pisan Cantos." The poet was charged with treason for broadcasting for Mussolini's Italy but deemed mentally unfit to stand trial.
Speaking of education, by the way, the President's Men may be (superficially) well-educated, as per their alma maters. But that doesn't clear them of ethical, moral, and even common-sense stupidity. As for the populace that supports but doesn't actually "do" all this stuff, well, let's just call them "enablers" who harm themselves as well as others.
Also, as a semi-retired Oakland teacher, I can say that indeed US history is taught, including the Constitution, in California. I suspect that it is taught also in Trump-supporting states. But just consider the Trump-supporting comments on this article. You can bring a horse to water....
3
Times readers who require an explainer why foreign control of local politics is bad, don't deserve to live in a free country.
3
If it is so bad why do we do it all the time in other countries? There is nothing so special about America that we can ignore international law!
2
@Judy Weller,
So, you're saying it's okay when we do it to others?
Hint - no, it's not. And that has nothing to do with the question at hand.
2
What elections has the US interfered in? Please be specific. I’ll wait....
1
Trump can deny all he wants, truth will out. He hasn't uttered a word of truth since he first opened his mouth as a crying, powerless infant. Nothing has changed.
5
Robert K. Dornan, Duncan Hunter and Duke Cunningham of California and Sam Johnson of Texas. These are the four congressmen.
The earliest four known Republican traitors.
Yes, yes, I know we can't convict them in a court of law of the crime of treason which is the only crime whose definition is spelled out in the Constitution.
I still call a congressman who solicits political help from Russia a traitor. It's colloquial. It's old school. It's true.
5
From the Q&A:
------
Doesn’t the U.S. meddle in other countries?
Yes.
------
Why does the Times feel a "But..." and long-winded rationalization is needed? US episodes of interference in other countries have been far more numerous, far more violent, far more deadly, and far more disastrous than anything the Trumps, Russians, and Ukranians combined could dream of.
Iran: CIA/MI6 coup during the Eisenhower presidency replaces Mossadeq with the Shah
Chile: Nixon/Kissinger/CIA "aid and abet" the overthrow of the Allende government by the military Junta led by Pinochet
Iraq: Bush. Cheney. 'Nuff said.
Libya: NATO "coalition" spearheaded by Obama removes Qaddafi but leaves Islamist extremists in control, and creates refugee and slavery crises.
Honduras: Hillary Clinton may have a fingerprint on the Libya operation, but her hands were on the wheel as the coup leading to corruption, drug wars, and a caravan of refugees headed towards the US unfolded.
Venezuela: Trump mumbles, bumbles and stumbles in half-hearted support of the clueless opposition "leader" while the Venezuelan people starve.
5
I don’t think any of those scenarios describe an electoral process, regime change yes, election, no.
Mark, are you suggesting that regime change is fine? Look, I get that you don't want to lose any momentum on the impeachment argument front, but it's not helpful to try to say only "election meddling" matters. They are both wrong, period. Being honest about the fact that the US has done plenty of immoral foreign meddling does not detract from the charges against Trump.
1
New York Times, several times now, I have requested you guys do a series of articles educating Americans on Constitutional law and basic Civics. Please, consider this, Americans are sorely in need of learning about our Constitution and Rule of Law.
7
Indeed. We have a president who took an oath to uphold a document he's never had enough interest in to read, let alone uphold. Trump never intended to do the work of being president; his only purpose in running for the job was to make money as a result of the power it gave him.
All candidates who run for president should have to take and pass a Constitution test before they're allowed to put their name on the ballot. They should also have served the public in some legitimate, recognized manner, for example: the military, public office, healthcare—doing something for the greater good. I don’t expect them to sleep on nails or walk on hot coals, but I do want them to have proven themselves to have a couple of altruistic cells in their body to rub together.
5
The very fact that the Times has to publish an explanation of "Why don’t we want foreign countries involved in our elections?" says volumes about the state of our society.
5
US interference is NOT the moral equivalent of Russian interference? Seriously? The international system is one of anarchy ( See, for example, Hedley Bull's work among many others) in which the strongest dominate and the thwarting of another state's will is predominanetly based on force or the threat thereof.This is all the more reason to vociefoursly protect our democratic institutions from foreign interference. Having said that, our democratic institutions pale in comparison to more vibrant ones in Europe: multi-party systems, limited influence of money, and, need I say it, a more educated demos. Jimmy Carter summed it up when he said that the US would not qualify for election monitoring by the Carter Center as it doesnt mert the baseline requirements for free and fair elections.
2
I wondered at first how any American, let alone an elected politician, could not understand why a foreign government should not be allowed to interfere in our elections. Then I heard Trump claim that the emoluments clause, an actual part of our Constitution, is “phoney” and now I’m not wondering any longer.
12
All media (but for dreck like 4chan) are beginning to turn against Trump.
As marvelous as that sounds it doesn't mean that his supporters (those who voted for him in 2016 and will again in 2020) will follow suit.
In fact, it seems as if the more the legal tide turns against Trump, the more his supporters dig in. If he can survive an impeachment trial, even if the finding is very close (e.g., 19 GOP and all DEMs/Independents vote to convict) he may well win re-election.
The madness of the election cycle next year will grow exponentially with the threats of impeachment. This will be a war for survival and it is the people of the US who will pay the price.
3
I would add to why what Trump did on that phone call with the Ukrainian leader was so wrong:
1. (A) Congress had approved aid to Ukraine. Trump held up Congressionally approved aid without telling Congress why. And some in his Administration were told not to be honest about it if asked.
(B). Trump wasn’t asking Ukraine to address corruption . He was targeting only two subjects: his political rival and
2. Our stated foreign policy is to support Ukraine with military aid because it is in our national security interest. Trump was advancing his own interests at the expense of Ukraine and our national security interest.
3. The facts about the Bidens in Ukraine have been known for a long time. What Giuliani was doing in Ukraine was looking for people who would corroborate a false narrative. By telling the Ukrainian leader to work with Giuliani, Trump, in effect. was telling The Ukrainian leader to support Giuliani’s false narrative.
4. Trump also wanted the Ukrainians to boost the conspiracy theory about the DNC server being hidden in Ukraine. This is not only crazy but our professionals in the FBI and the Intelligence Community have debunked this theory. Why Trump is pursuing this is because he wants to show that Russia didn’t interfere in the 2016 elections. This is directly beneficial to Russia and harmful to our institutions.
5. Asking a foreign power for help in his political fortunes makes Trump beholden to that foreign power.
8
@Rita Giuliani and his gang had other 'business' in Ukraine: they were 'involved' with the former government including the prosecutor and wanted our ambassador to be removed so she would not interfere in their deals. They were not in Ukraine because of Hunter Biden.
There is a case to be made that by tying Ukraine’s help to a monetary reward is a breach of the emoluments clause. Trump would have received an item of value in return for a payment to the Ukrainian government.
5
If you're hired to work a cash register, you understand the money isn't yours; it belongs to the company. If you're hired to be president, you understand the powers aren't yours; they belong to the country. You're not supposed to use them for your own personal enrichment or political fortunes.
I can't understand how anyone has trouble understanding this, frankly. It's central to every position of trust, from cashier on up.
16
We criticize how wealthy donors have too much influence on our elections. A foreign country commands resources of money, expertise, and personnel that would put an individual donor to shame. Don't let a wolf through the door when it comes to our elections. I say this as Russian flags now wave over former American military bases in Syria.
2
On one hand Trump creates a phony bologna commission to investigate all the fraudulent voting by non-citizens. This is supported by his followers. Then in the next breath he is requesting assistance in the election from foreign citizens. Not sure why Trump's followers don't see why there might be a problem here.
6
Why not ask foreign nations for "help" with elections?
1. Their own priorities have NOTHING to do with American interests. Who they help, why they help, how they help, and how they feel about it are going to be based on their own needs, not ours--and the results will be tailored to meet their needs, not ours. It's like asking strangers to hold your wallet...can you count on them not to steal cash, or run off with it entirely? Yeah. Right.
2. We have far less ability to track the honesty of their efforts abroad than domestically. At least we are onsite here, and have legal rights to deal with someone who, for example, outright lies. Look at the letter to the Ukraine: Trump as good as places an order for a very specific kind of outcome: he EXPECTS to be told about bad people doing horrible things. There is no question he's not asking for another finding of no-fault. So--if the Ukraine realizes they are only going to get more hassle and hold-up on aide if they give Trump a story he doesn't want, they're going to fabricate a report he does want, and we're in very bad positions to identify and disprove any lies they offer up.
3. Because when our foreign policy becomes a matter of pay offs, bribes, and quid-pro-quo under the table, we are no longer actually engaging in foreign policy than the Mob is participating in community development. It's crime...and in time we will be treated like and greeted like the criminals we have become.
And that's just for starters.
3
So are we to understand that VP Biden's quid-pro-quo was Statesmanship? As opposed to a kinder gentler form of "neo-liberal", or rather "globalist", kind of economic hit man sort-of-a-thing?
2
@Newsbuoy
I like the way you compare rotting fruit to organic gardening.
1
Dear Katie:
Thank you for compiling a very thoughtful set of FAQs. I especially commend the portions where it is made clear that a quid-pro-quo is not necessary for a request made to a foreign power to aid in a US election to be illegal. A “quid” is sufficient, as it were.
I find this focus on the existence of a quid-pro-quo somewhat worrisome — sort of like the inane distinction made between collusion and conspiracy during the Muller investigation.
RK
8
What I don't get is anyone saying they fail to see a problem with Trump's behavior. Yes, duh, of course it's not A-OK to ask a foreign government for help with your political campaign and threaten to withhold military aid if they don't.
Call a spade a spade. If you like Trump enough to forgive him for this latest and most serious transgression, just say so. It'd be more honest than the convoluted arguments I hear to try to justify his actions. No one of these commentators would extend the same forgiveness to a Democratic president who did the same thing, meaning the only reason they forgive Trump is because they like Trump.
5
Mulvaney and Giuliani will soon explain that what is outlined here cannot be true for Donald Trump. With some credit to George Orwell and a touch of Lewis Carroll, they will explain that while others receiving a favor from a foreign government would then be indebted to that foreign country, Donald - based on his long history of bankruptcies and lawsuits where he simply refused to pay money he owed - could not have any such feeling or obligation of debt...... because he never pays. (They might conveniently forget Putin.)
I can foresee a day where Donald Trump actually does shoot someone on Fifth Avenue. Lou Dobbs and Sean Hannity will be quick to attack anyone disturbed by this. Those Democrats, they will say, are upset when a politician actually keeps his promises.
Sadly, I'm not attempting humor here. Just accuracy.
3
@DLNYC
Are you sure Hannity and Dobbs won’t blame the victim? Who by the way, regardless of political affiliation will undoubtedly be called a “crazy” Democrat.
4
@Dunn Arceneaux
Thanks. You're right. Just when I think I've figured it out, those clever Fox folks should be counted on to go one more step through the looking glass.
3
You polled the jackals what they wanted for dinner, and they voted the sheep as the main course. Is that assumed a surprise? Has there ever been even a post office built in state that did not take into consideration some politicians benefiting? Never mind in dealing with foreign nations. Its call politics....and it is often not very pretty or enobling. However, it is how the world works.
Citizens are expected to show patriotism to our flag, our military and those who have given their lives to maintain our freedoms and way of life. Trump is clearly throwing our democracy away as he cozies up to dictators, communist leaders while he kissed and wrapped himself in our flag. He tells his followers what they want to hear while too often he quietly does just the opposite. How was infrastructure week? How are all those manufacturing jobs returning to this nation working out? How has those tax cuts paid for themselves? How much more ignorance can this nation tolerate as people feast daily of trumps lies and the echo chamber over at Fox News? Trump is clearly self dealing, he is clearly hiding much about his finances in his hidden taxes. Congress must get this impeachment as even another year of trumps term, can real so much more damage on this nation much less another term!
1
It's really very simple I think.
He cheats. And if he is still in the White House next year, he will cheat again. You can count on it.
Although Mueller wasn't able to prove that Trump "colluded" or "conspired" with Russia, he certainly did ask for their help and he benefited it from that help. We can only guess at how much foreign influence (and Comey's antics) skewed the results. So why would we expect Trump not to repeat his earlier conduct? More likely than not he will double down and stop at virtually nothing to insure he remains in office another four years. Especially since he may well face criminal charges once he vacates the White House.
It simply boggles the mind to think that Trump might be given the chance to win a second term in office. Will we spend the next four years after that investigating how the 2020 presidential election was corrupted? Mueller 2.0?
It would laughable if it weren't so shameful...
3
oh, we can expel someone? What if we expel Trump from the country rather than impeach him? Can we just take away his citizenship and call it even? I mean he's trying to destroy every recognizably defining characteristic: social, political, and natural-so why don't we just help him with the final step his subconscious is so CLEARLY calling for. Forget impeachment- EXILE TRUMP
1
@Bellingham
"Forget impeachment- EXILE TRUMP"
The French used to exile folks to Devil's Island; perhaps Rikers Island could be our equivalent.
I think we are in the periphery away from the true territory! Very much missing the fundamental! What's the moot point? We're driven frantic enemies are interfering with our democracy! Ah! So chase and maul their heads over heals! Haven't we red, "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." Russia is alleged to have interfered with our last Presidential election so much so that, critics put finger on, they pick and placed the candidate of their choice in the oval office! Shame on us! 'It takes two to tango." If we are so vulnerable then treat ourselves, invigorate and take to out ride them in the race! "Knowledge is power". Empty threat is a disgrace also proven sign of weakness. Well! We must bear in mind success of democratic system of Government depends mainly on the caliber of the electorate. One of the greatest trios, man has ever seen, Greek philosopher, Plato considered the democratic system is the rule of majority upon a small enlightened minority! When votes are on sale democracy gets sold! Privilege overrides principal!
Until our moral values rekindled to good, grace and so patriotism over pettiness, we're bound to remain engaged in chivalry of Don Quixote, a war of attrition under watch of the mocking mass world over!
S. A. Samad, USA.
2
More explanatory pieces such as this, please. Explain explain explain. In simple terms.
5
Well for one thing, foreign governments are under no compulsion to give factual information, and may just give false information to promote their own agenda. They will manipulate the influence they pedal to suit themselves. If they are under pressure to come up with a prescribed story, they can make one up to suit those pressuring them to dig up that dirt.
2
Don't all politicians all the time in all situations act for their political advantage? Are some recent trips abroad, for example, by some politicians not for their political advantage?
1
@areader, Lugar & Nunn were a good example of not being too political all the time.
It is so very sad that there is a need for this article, that US citizens can't discern right from wrong, or understand the basic tenets of the Constitution.
54
Yes, very sad that Americans are not taught about our Constitution and how our government works!
3
The words "Get over it!" Chilled me the same way they did when I heard Antonin Scalia say them when someone asked him about Bush v. Gore during a post-speech Q & A. In both instances a power-grab undermined democracy. Bush v. Gore led to the war in Iraq and thousands of deaths. Who knows where allowing foreign policy to be driven by political campaigns will lead us and the rest of the world
33
Unfortunately I agree with you. Scalia’s “Get over it” was a blunt and conniving admission on “that they (SCOTUS et al.)” were in on it”. 2020 is a done deal. #45, Putin, McConnell “ Moscow Mitch”, Facebook and SCOTUS are in lock step to maintain #45 in power. You can short the US democracy. My condolences.
1
Really?
3
Our collective amnesia is astonishing. Have we forgotten how the Iran hostage crisis miraculously resolved after the 1980 presidential election. The Iran Contra affair? October surprise? Look it up, people!
7
If you have to ask this question you are a big part of what is wrong with America in 2019.
16
A simple syllogism: The Republican Party is full of angry fools,
the Republican Party from the street to the Senate to Fox to the Supreme Court will do anything to steal an election: therefore the man in the White House is a fraud and a fool making America a Banana Republic, which it never was, once in its history, never like this
10
I don't understand how people can be so stupid. Did they not pay attention in their high school civics class?
15
@Birdygirl There are very few 'high school civics classes'. Little history either. Maybe today teachers of 'American Culture' classes will include a day on this subject-depending on whether they have time-or whether the Supt. is observing that day. Ask a kid.
2
That is right!!
Can you believe that doofus Trump gave concession to the Turks in order to negotiate a ceasefire? What an evil man!! Can you believe he offered quid pro quos to stop the violence? What a terrible human being, absolutely unfit for office.
Impeach now.
5
@Silly Trump gave the ' concession' of removing US armed forces from the region of Syria because Erdogan said he was 'coming in'. The 'ceasefire' or 5 day halt has not actually prevented the Turks from moving in on the Kurds-.
1
As if this needed explaining.
But apparently, it does. It says so much about the woeful state of our public education system: one of the primary acts of pedagogy should be to make sure every citizen understands The Constitution, full stop.
13
"Doesn't the US meddle in other countries?"
That is not the issue here since doing so does not violate Trump's oath of office. Meddling in other countries may well be part of his duty to protect and defend our Constitution. However allowing foreign powers to meddle in our country definitely goes against his oath to protect the US and our Constitution.
10
If the members of the GOP try to say, "Let the voters decide" when it comes to impeachment, the focus of the push back has to be on the inability to conduct a fair election with Trump courting foreign interference.
10
Thank you for the high school civics lesson. It's an important story for the wrong reasons. The lack of understanding of the American political process and the functioning of our government are serious issues. A newspaper should not have to explain to Americans the grave nature of Mr. Trump's crimes.
16
@Jim McGrath Actually helping Americans/the world to grasp the nature of Trump's crimes is-exactly-what newspapers are for.
1
Getting help from another country, in secret, definitely opens up the president to blackmail.
In this case, the situation is even worse. Ukrainian prosecutors already determined that Hunter Biden committed no crime, so when Trump asked Zelenskyy to reopen the investigation, there was a strong implication that Trump was asking him to not just investigate Biden, but to fabricate evidence against Biden.
The transcript clearly shows that Zelensky understood that, as well. First Zelensky talks about the new prosecutor being "100% my man," indicating that he'll return the requested charges, rather than following any evidence. And then Zelensky asks Trump to provide some guidance on what evidence is required, and Trump suggests that Giuliani (!) will provide it.
11
But it might even have been enough for Trump for there to be an announcement of an investigation. No need to even bother with conducting an investigation.
The question as to “why does it matter if there is foreign influence over the direction of our nation?” reveals how much people see America as an imperial power in the world. Only now under Trump it speaks to the direct use of other nations for one’s own political gain. It makes the slogan “Make America Great Again” into a complete sham, as Trump feels he must supersede the nation in order to stay in office. It also speaks to the multinational corporate power that he represents, that uses this nation, and any other nation, for its’ global economic aspirations to the detriment of both other nations and citizens here. Meanwhile, Americans are left out of improvement of wages, health care, public gun safety, infrastructure improvements and care for the environment. And this president and too many members of the GOP use the narrative that big government is evil, while they are the multinational corporate representatives draining the wealth (the largest tax break to them in history), and now what moral capital may be left in the “nation.” If we are going to restore this nation, we the people must take the grass roots common ground issues and movements seriously, such as overturning unlimited corporate money from elections and the lobbyists, or succumb to the fatalistic mindset that has given up and says “get over it.”
4
They didn't jus "ask for help": they said, unless you do as we say, you will not get $400,000,000. We have a term for that: extortion.
15
I agree that Trump should not have directly asked the president of Ukraine for assistance in getting information which would assist his re-election. Whether it was a quid pro quo, I leave to legal scholars. I am a lawyer and I certainly don't have enough information to make that determination. Any reader who really believes that they know the answer simply doesn't understand the complexity of the issue.
(Hint : it's not just what your cable news network of choice says it is. ).
But please spare me the self righteous indignation. Does anyone doubt that either party would gleefully seek and accept dirt on the opposition candidate from any possible source whatsoever. For example, suppose a Russian source offers to provide evidence that Trump offered to bribe Russian officials to get approval for a hotel in Moscow ? Does anybody seriously believe that the Democrats wouldn't jump at the chance ? Of course. And they should, right ? Come on, be honest !
But -the " correct" way to do it is behind the scenes. Have some subordinate on the campaign team communicate with the Russian counterpart. Then use it-against Trump if it you can gain an advantage. Would any democrat stand up and say : "oh no, we can't accept information from Russia to destroy Trump !" Give me a break.
So what Trump did was wrong and foolish. Not because it is horrifyingly wrong to get dirt on his potential from a foreign source, but simply because of the way he did it.
Otherwise -any dirt is fair game.
Didn’t the story just explain cases where politicians walked away from foreign help?
2
There is so much wrong about this comment that I honestly don’t even know where to start.
4
@Gene Gambale Don't 'lawyers' have to take some kind of 'oath of office' to adhere to our -laws- in order to pass the bar exam or become lawyers? Aren't there ethics classes you were supposed to attend?
5
We have one word for this where I come from (New York)...Oy!
3
Reason this is going nowhere.
Trump asked another nation whether the former
Vice President had been taking bribes.
Only the Times readers think there is something wrong with that.
But Trump was already told the answer by US intelligence and by members of his own administration. He wasn’t asking as part of a search truth. He was not even necessarily looking for dirt. As long as he has an announcement that Ukraine was conducting an investigation, he would have something.
1
Except he wasn’t just a former vice-president, was he - at the time he was the front runner for nomination as the Democratic presidential candidate, Trump’s likely rival in the next election.
2
No. He conditioned foreign aid on their help to supply potentially damaging information on a political opponent. It’s illegal.
5
I guess when Trump said he was going to drain the swamp, he intended to build a bigger more corrupt swamp.
7
The Trump hotel in DC has 90% bookings,, and 45% ocupancy. The phantom rooms are rented to foreign persons and governments that never show to use the room they paid for.
One large Chinese businessman paid 30 million for a New York Trump condo. Has he ever been here? Similar sales to Russians. Mar-a-Lago doubled its fees and memberships. Scotland just approved a second Trump golf course. The first one loses just over 1 million dollars every year,,,every year the same amount,, (Yeah, right.) and pays no taxes,,, and is so profitable that Trump wants to build another golf course. That will lose almost exactly one million a year as well.
Giuliani,, of course no reflection on Trump,, has clients (arrested and in US custody) that if you put them together want to export Iranian oil (against Trump's sanctions) to the Ukraine. Quid Pro Quo ?
And Trump's own statement today, That the United States Constitution is, and I quote, "Phony."
We are being sold to whoever has the money to pay Trump. This IS exactly what George Mason, and Alexander Hamilton warned against.
And just one more tiny bay step away,,, just another 'quid pro quo'. There are 60 nuclear bombs on a Turkish air base today, right this minute,, and Erdogan wants them. And all he has to do is slip some money into Trump's pocket. A new hotel? Buy the Aberdeenshire golf course?
Phony ?
"Quid Pro Quo"
8
@Deanalfred Tell us where you read that. Thanks.
2
@pat All from various NYT's articles. Just this source. Trump called the US Constitution "phony", today. Our nukes at an airbase in Turkey, fact. The last supposition is mine. But there is nothing that has been done by Trump already that exceeds what Erdogan may want. Trump trades and Ergodan knows it. So as terrifying as the possibility is,, even as unlikely as the possibility might be,,, it is a real possibility.
As to inconsistencies,, Giuliani is Trump's lawyer and also Resa Zerrab's attorney. Zerrab is also a friend of Erdogan. Zerrab was arrested for laundering Iranian moneys and supplying Iran with as much as 5 billion in gold. This is so vastly 'in your face' as to Trump's sanctions on Iran,, and yet,,, Giuliani tried to get him freed,, in a meeting with Tillerson. Tillerson said "No. Illegal and improper." Two recent arrests Parnas and Fruman (sp?), setting up an oil company,, bribing US Senators,,, again Giuliani's clients,, at the same time Giuliani is a citizen ambassador?
The fish are beginning to stink. Absolutely no proof. But who is going to profit by oil sold at Filene's Bargain Basement prices from Iran,, across a northern border controlled by Turkey to the Ukraine? A Russian 'businessman'? Erdogan? Trump? A Ukraine attorney general? There is 20 billion dollars there. Someone is going to make a lot of money.
Zerrab's gold was traded for something.
1
Thank you, thank you, for addressing this. I think it's important to make it easy for everyone to understand why this type of influence is so damaging.
In addition to your points about foreign interests not being aligned with ours and the indebtedness this could create with our president, I would add one more.
Bargaining US foreign policy for political influence fundamentally damages our ability to have free and fair elections. The president has tremendous power. If he is allowed to use that power to broker deals with foreign countries which target his political rivals it puts him on grossly equal footing with his rivals. He can attack his opponents in a way they cannot and that is very hard for them to defend against. As such, it directly weakens one of the core principles of our democracy.
5
Thank you, thank you, for addressing this. I think it's important to make it easy for everyone to understand why this type of influence is so damaging.
In addition to your points about foreign interests not being aligned with ours and the indebtedness this could create with our president, I would add one more.
Bargaining US foreign policy for political influence fundamentally damages our ability to have free and fair elections. The president has tremendous power. If he is allowed to use that power to broker deals with foreign countries which target his political rivals it puts him on grossly equal footing with his rivals. He can attack his opponents in a way they cannot and that is very hard for them to defend against. As such, it directly weakens one of the core principles of our democracy.
3
When did we stop teaching the Constitution and the organizing and running of our government? When did we stop teaching history? Government is NOT a business. It is the care of and creation of a society for all its members. Put down the machines and look at one another. This is very disturbing. I will not "Get over it."
17
Interference in our political elections by another country is a violation of U.S. sovereignty. Some countries have gone to war over lesser violations.
7
Readers have really asked that? What readers have asked that? I’d love to see stats on that. Disturbing.
6
Readers have asked what the brouhaha is all about! This is a symptom of how poor public education has become in the past 50 years. Back in the day, Civics Class was mandatory and the Constitution was drummed into students so that they knew the answer to what the big deal is!
3
Bob Dylan wrote a long litany of incredible lyrics over these decades. The last lines of "Positively 4th Street" certainly fall into that category, where he says,
"I wish that for just one time, you can stand inside my shoes,
You'd know what a drag it is to see you!"
That certainly rings true for Trump and his merry band of grifters.
And there's also Dylan's classic "Everything Is Broken," with this chorus:
Broken hands on broken ploughs,
Broken treaties, broken vows,
Broken pipes, broken tools,
People bending broken rules
Hound dog howlin, bull frog croakin,
Everything is broken.
But most appropriately Dylan writes that,
"It might be the Devil, It might be the Lord,
But you gotta serve somebody."
We want the President of the United States, and every other elected official in our nation, to serve the people of the United States. Not the leader of Russia or Turkey or Israel or anyone else. Period.
It's not that hard.
8
@Kevin Brock: Thank you, Kevin!
I find the Mueller report strikingly important, for example. Let Trump and his ilk believe there is no connection to wrong-doing. They simply double down.
Mulvaney is telling the American people to "get over it" regarding legitimate concerns about the President's conduct.
Imagine telling your boss to "get over it" when you screw up a business relationship.
11
We will never Get Over It. The corruption and self serving policies of the Trump administration will be a festering wound that for many decades will plague conscientious thinking Americans who care about what kind of country they want their children to be raised in. We will get over it when Trump is removed from office and the next president and next Congress reverse all of the evil that has been done to our country since Trump was sworn into office. No amount of Chlorox could ever wash away all the sewage and moral filth that has infested our government since Jan 2016.
8
Donald Trump you are about to be impeached.
My advise? "Get Over It".
15
No President, or his feckless, lying toady, should ever say "Get Over It".
That says clearly that WE do not matter. This is OUR country an d a REAL President would understand, all, the way down to his soul, that that is not in his wheel house.
Get rid of Trump and hold him accountable for all of his crimes. We deserve SO MUCH BETTER than that narcissistic sociopath.
11
When Mulvaney finds himself on the outside looking in wishing he hadn’t been so utterly incompetent and obtuse, those of us who don’t need the Times to explain the obvious to us can all dismissively say, “Mike, just get over it.”
6
Is it 100% assured that Russia didn’t negate the results of the 1960 Presidential election? Is it true that Lee Harvey Oswald met with KGB agents in Mexico one week prior to murdering President Kennedy in Dallas? Have all documents pertaining to the murder of Kennedy been made public?
Nope, I don’t think I will “get over it.” It’s called treason.
8
The White House strategy at this point is not to deny their crimes, but to deny that crimes are actual crimes. We are beyond Orwell. One has to read what Mein Kampf says about the "big lie" to understand what's going on here.
7
"The only thing that ever consoles a man for the stupid things he does is the praise he always gives himself for doing them."--Oscar Wilde
7
Sorry, Trump is a symptom; the GOP getting foreign assistance to win elections is business as usual in our lifetimes: Nixon and South Vietnam to extend the war, Bush Sr. and Iran, Saudi, and Emirati assistance (and family patronage), Bush Jr. Saudi and Emirati help. Iraeli help too?
In fact, GOP corruption vis-a-vis foreign influence may have allowed the Russians to succeed in influencing the current administration, NRA, McConnell PAC, etc. Bush family state-sponsorship, nepotism, and corruption predate Russian oligarchy after all.
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/26/us/bush-to-limit-testimony-before-9-11-panel.html
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/vice-vs-the-real-dick-cheney
3
Hmmmm. Once again we get “All the News Analysis That’s Fit to Print”. This appears on website without any header indicating other than straight reporting. When one clicks through to the article, the Politics header shows up.
This piece is larded with “analysis” and opinion — all fine if on op-ed or opinion pages. Not here masquerading as objective journalism.
2
That this article had to be written and published in the NYT blows my mind.
6
This story and the comments are missing an important fact.
Trump support dose not care. They are staying with Trump and will be there in 2020.
And ,,,da da dot da da daaa….new voters are liking him.
This site and all the new media can try 24-7 to make that change. It will not.
That is the real story.
2
@Joe Paper
"This story and the comments are missing an important fact. Trump support dose not care. "
You're right, this is the tragic part. Trump supporters couldn't care less about this country or integrity or the Constitution. They just want to worship their leader.
Prior to going through channels, the whistleblower brought his or her complaint to the lawyer at Intelligence, who passed it on to both the White House and Justice. Barr opined that opposition research was of no monetary value and therefore the "favor" Trump asked was not a violation of campaign finance law. He then filed the matter away. Any political consultant would testify that such opposition materials cost campaigns money and can be useful in an election. Barr was covering up for Trump, as was Mulvaney. Those two should join the ranks of John Mitchell, a previous AG, John Haldeman, a previous chief of staff, along with the other Nixon henchmen, in going to prison for obstruction of justice in covering-up the misdeeds of their respective presidents. Trump's co-conspirators won't escape prosecution, any more than Nixon's did. The question is whether Trump will walk free, leaving his loyal advisers (and "personal attorney") to take the fall for him by cutting a deal with his successor.
5
The fact that Americans are asking what is wrong with asking foreign countries for help in U.S. elections, just shows why President Trump is President.
People in this country are stupid.
12
Foreign countries periodically attempt to influence American elections through the good old fashioned method of illicit campaign donations. The People's Republic of China made a number of donations through intermediaries during the mid 1990's, with most money going to Bill Clinton's 1996 reelection campaign (and some to his defense fund), the Democratic National Committee and some to the Republican National Committee. Fortunately, the government caught most of these transgressions, money was returned and some of the perpetrators were convicted and sentenced.
2
Very large multinational corporate conglomerates governed by Boards compromised of a diverse international spectrum of citizens...and at times lead by CEO’s and Board Chairs who may or may not be US citizens are going to conduct business operations in the US....and other countries.
On one level having intertwined economic relations between nations is conducive to diplomatic and economic resolution of issues as opposed to armed conflict. I believe that has been a thesis espoused by Henry Kissinger amongst other Foreign Policy experts.
It is naive to believe these corporations are not at some level involved in the political process of every nation in which they conduct business.
2
One more point is apparently overlooked or not understood by too many of our citizens. It is perfectly acceptable in foreign policy for our government to offer aid -- money, military gear, technology -- in exchange for something of value to the United States -- support on a U.N. matter, a military base, a trade agreement. But that is not what Trump has done here. He wasn't conditioning aid on something of value to the United States. He was conditioning aid on something of value to HIMSELF, his own reelection. That isn't merely unseemly. It is illegal.
11
To call what Trump did “Political Influence in Foreign Policy” does not do justice to the seriousness of this conduct. Pelosi's description of “shakedown” or perhaps extortion seems more appropriate.
3
I appreciate the valuable information and history contained in this article/opinion piece. One thing is missing, "though." While it's true that what Trump did was illegal, it is also worth realizing that his actions could only have been undertaken by someone with great political power. Trump's rivals cannot (usually) speak with presidents of foreign countries in order to ask for "favors."
Thus, when President Trump spoke to President Zelensky about a quid pro quo, he was engaged in an activity that no other person in our nation could--simply because he held presidential power.
To say that Trump misused that power is a gross understatement. And his misuse is completely worthy of impeachment.
8
I agree with the vast majority of points made in this article and agree with other commenters that it is disconcerting that we even need to explain why comments made by Trump to Ukraine’s president were inappropriate.
I do, however, disagree with the answer to “doesn’t the US meddle in other countries?” It is not entirely accurate to say that “American efforts have been geared toward promoting candidates who challenge authoritarian leaders.” American efforts are geared toward promoting candidates who support American interests, be they authoritarian leaders or not. See Saudi Arabia and US support for the royal family. See Panama and US support for the dictator Manuel Noriega. See Nicaragua and US support for the Contras. See Cuba and US backed military dictator Fulgencio Batista.
It is disingenuous and self-serving to say that “experts have argued that modern American efforts are not morally equivalent to those in Russia.” Who are these “experts”? Russia acts in its interests just like the US acts in its interests. Russian meddling in US elections is no different than America’s bloody involvement in other countries’ politics. Again, see for example, US support for the Contras in Nicaragua.
6
@Vera Russia does 'act in its own interests'-as when they meddled in our 2016 election by targeting voters with anti-Hillary material in order to help Trump. Putin hated Sec. Clinton because she tried to influence opponents to his reelection by supporting democratic political speech. Putin already knew Trump from his beauty contest days-maybe he thought he could 'work with Trump'? Some might think that there's something to that.
Should the foreign policy of the US reflect the needs and desires of the US population or should it be affected by foreign nations making private deals with US politicians to benefit the politician and the foreign country at the expense of the rest of the US population?
Russia wants to take the lands of other countries and it wants the US to allow that. The US population believes that Russia should not be allowed to do that. When the US refuses to allow that confiscation and imposes sanctions on Russia, Russia reacts by making a deal with an individual in the US to cause him to be elected although he is not the majority candidate, and by offering enticements in terms of his investments around the world, those actions go against the interests of the US population. When a US political candidate acts in the interests of a foreign nation rather than the interests of the US population, that is not a good thing. As such, the Constitution forbids it.
Foreign interference is only one of several troubling aspects of this phone call. Here are a few more:
1) Strongmen around the globe have used political prosecutions of "corruption" to gain and maintain power. Xi, MBS, Putin and Duterte have all done this. Presidents should leave the prosecution of crimes to the Justice Department.
2) President Trump asked foreign governments to prosecute an American citizen under foreign law. If one of the Bidens is alleged to have broken a law, the American justice system should investigate, not Ukraine or China. U.S. law is sufficient for this.
3) The president used his office to benefit himself personally, not to benefit the Americans he serves. This is literally the definition of corruption, and a breach of the president's fiduciary duty to voters.
4
I fail to see how the DNC’s hiring of Fusion and Steel doesn’t satisfy these interpretations of foreign influence in elections.
Also, a glaring omission of US meddling in foreign elections: Russia since the 1990s. We were so proud of our influence in getting Yeltsin elected Hollywood made a movie about it, starring Liev Schreiber, and the real life meddlers were celebrated on the cover of Time magazine.
4
Wait, isn't one of the concerns that the "other nation" would feel compelled to deliver the results the president (in this case) wants to hear? That is, the effort by the Trump campaign isn't necessarily to get to the truth; it's to get that foreign power to provide a story that helps his political campaign. It's immoral on a hundred different levels--it's bad for the other nation, it corrupts our own system, it's bad for the truth to name but a few. I'm flabbergasted the president's supporters don't see it that way.
Who're the patriots now?
3
Imagine if three-ish years ago, President Obama had said at a press conference "The President of the United States would consider it a personal favor if any country where Mr Trump, any of his children, or sibling or business associates would open a corruption investigation into their business dealing. Please have the results available before the election." Do you think that Mr Trump or the Republican party might have taken that as business as usual
4
@Rich
The articles below relate how President Obama called Alie Saleh, the leader of Yemen, to convince him to keep a journalist in prison. The journalist had revealed that a bombing that killed dozens of women and children was done by the U.S., not by Yemen as its leader had claimed. "Saleh has been known to exploit the threat of terrorism to leverage counterterrorism dollars from the United States ..."
Doesn't that sound like a quid pro quo, but involving the slaughter of women and children (and likely innocent men)?
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-president-obama-keeping-journalist-prison-yemen/
https://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/yemeni_reporter_who_exposed_us_drone
1
Digital forensics performed by a team of highly-trained ex-NSA personnel concluded that the DNC emails were leaked, not hacked.
1
Supply your source.
4
"It plotted assassinations and supported brutal anti-Communist governments in Latin America, Africa and Asia. The C.I.A. has planted misinformation and, at times, used cash as a way to achieve foreign policy aims."
And then it goes on to say that "experts"have said this behaviour is, in effect, ok! I'm not sure if NYT readers think that this degree of hypocrisy (including, note, murder) is fine, but I don't. Strange that the NYT thinks - or at least reports - that it is.
As someone who lived through the US invasion and mass bombing (and CIA managed murders) in Indo China during the 1950s and 60s (I'm that old) which resulted approaching 4 million dead- I've long been alert to such nose holding levels of moral stinkiness.
Why is there such uproar over other countries doing something to the US which is many times less than this (ie no murders, no bombs)?
In the current picture of course Trump is a Russian Kompromat. Isn't that completely obvious? But he was voted in by people who were oblivious to this fact; and indeed are cheering him on. I think a moral health check is on order.
As much as I like the NYT over more than a half century of readership I am baffled by the degree and the lengths to which supporters of US foreign will go to imbue them with a moral purpose.
2
So... let me get this straight... an adult person, who is competent enough to at least maintain internet service, needs to have it explained why foreign interference in domestic politics is bad?
That fact alone blows my mind. Now it all makes sense how criminals manage to earn billions of dollars every year in scams. It’s amazing!
3
I am a liberal and I despise Trump and what he is doing to our country. However, asking foreign governments for a quid pro quo on anything related to our *national interest* is wholly appropriate and commonplace. "I'll give you X if you in turn help me or support me with Y" is simply negotiating for the benefit of the country. What isn't appropriate is any type of quid pro quo where a federal employee is withholding or offering something in exchange for *personal* benefit. There is evidence that Trump did this on the July 25 call, and for this and a million other reasons, he should be impeached. But I think the NY Times is regularly and intentionally blurring the lines between the quid pro quos related to national interest and personal interest. If you read Mulvaney's interview, it's pretty clear that his "Get over it" comment refers principally to national interest quid pro quos, and his 'retraction' simply tries to make that explicitly clear. But your publication has big headlines inferring that Mulvaney is admitting a quid pro quo to Trump's personal interest. Please don't let your biases, which I also share, keep you from reporting the news as it is. As we've learned over the last three years, integrity matters.
1
@Brian "Supporting 'me' with information harmful to my political opponent and helpful to 'me'-is illegal and is not to the 'benefit of the country'.
5
I find it odd that none of these reasons, however useful they may be, gets to the nub of the issue.
Forcing policy to comport with the political concerns of a powerful figure in government employ, such as a president, is fascism.
1
"Has this happened in previous elections?"
The Times neglects to mention 2016, where Trump publicly asked for help from Russia in attacking Clinton. All of the U.S. national security agencies have agreed that Russia provided that help. Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller cited abundant evidence that Trump and his aides obstructed his investigation into whether Trump criminally conspired with Russia, but was unable to indict the President because of DOJ policy. Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort, who not coincidentally got rich previously working for Russia-backed Ukrainian oligarchs, went to jail for lying about the possibility of conspiracy. I could go on.
Give the Times credit for reaching out to an audience that doesn't understand why bribing a foreign government to manufacture dirt on your American political opponent is wrong. But I strongly suspect that audience is precisely the group least likely to be aware of the relevant facts the Times omits. I struggle to recognize what journalistic standard led the Times to such omission.
3
The 1797 impeachment of Senator William Blount give hope that Senator McConnell will be impeached for malfeasance in office regards denying President Obama his right to have a Supreme Court nominee reviewed by the full Senate, per the Constitution. Perhaps we will be lucky and have this be part of the Trump impeachment.
The denial of the nominee was purely partisan, had no basis in law, and could only be accomplished by mis-applying Senate Rules that gives the Senate Majority Leader the privilege of selecting which bills can reach the floor of the Senate.
This same Republican Loyalist now supports avoidance of Impeachment of his "Useful Idiot" Donald Trump unless the "Donald" will cost himself and other Republicans votes in 2020. McConnell's dictator role made Trump inevitable. His role eliminated democracy, and replaced it with "One Man" rule over our law making system.
The Senate Rules are controlled by the Senatoroal majority (Party usually) and give Senator McConnell dictatorial powers in the Senate. This is at odds with the Constitution that intended the Senate to be the level playing field for small and large states on matters of laws and appointments.
3
Does anyone else find the phrase "get over it," fundamentally offensive? it seems to insist that somehow you're being childish when you, in fact, are pointing out something very important. I found it annoying when my kids were teenagers and used it on me (not very often), and find it ludicrous that a grown man who has access to this kind of power would use it. What next? Will he double-dog dare us?
7
ok, am listening to CNN and this monotonous voice of Trump, me, me, poor me, everybody is against me, I'm so great, I have made the US Better,does he not get it, he has weakened the Republic of the United States, I could have done everything for free, people wake up, he gives a portion of his salary to whichever organization, but with his golfing and detailing he has cost you ten times his value, he is a con artist he sees himself caught on this hook, if you are fisherman, especially a deep sea fisherman you know he is getting ready to be realed in, for God Sakes, People need to get themselves a bigger, better, even those feeling not heard or appreciated, Trump is not it, Pence, Pompeo, Graham, McConnell they are not it, but somewhere in the Americas, there is someone and not necessarily the Democrats, someone new, someone probably already listening probably waiting to just see if the Mess with Syria, and your economy it is strong only for the extremely rich and the major corporations, but there is hope, there is better guidance, less turmoil, just find the right person, regain your greatness, remain a Democracy that you can be proud of, the one thing that remains is "This to shall pass," Do you need a President who is considered not an entertainer but an entertainment, a joke, a Big Baby Air Balloon, are you as people strong and free, not deserving better than me, me, me, oh just I, even my base can't do it, there less sophisticated than the major city people, really? Why?
2
People asking what is wrong with a president asking a foreigner (government or not) for help in an election campaign are Trump supporters or are trolling, perhaps both. Your explanation will fall on deaf ears.
1
The real issue is that Trump, in his role as president, is using the full power of the United States of America to advance his own personal interests. He can withhold foreign aid from countries like Ukraine, he can influence diplomats to stay at his hotels, he can give cushy jobs to his children. In all these cases, and more, the power comes from his role as president of the nation, and the benefit goes to him as a private citizen.
This is clear conflict of interest, and signs of it are everywhere: withdrawing support from the Kurds, destabilizing our trade and diplomatic alliances, supporting Brexit, supporting right-wing organizations at home and right-wing governments abroad, etc., etc. have inflicted significant harm to the United States, harm from which we will never recover. In all of these cases, he is clearly not acting in the interest of the nation, and we must suspect that he is acting in his own self-interest.
So this is the real issue: Our nation has been hijacked.
327
@Sandy T I think it important to also remember that all of this greatly benefits Russia.
34
@Sandy T
His entire administration is built on conflicts of interest and regulatory capture.
His tally so far:
Total number of conflicts of interest to date: 2310
-Political events held at trump properties: 63
-Visits by trump to trump businesses at taxpayer expense: 362
-Events held by special interest groups at trump properties: 82
-Foreign trademarks granted to trump businesses while in office: 59
- Members of Congress that visited trump properties: 90
- Foreign officials that stayed at trump properties: 111
-Number of executive branch officials that stayed at trump properties: 250
-Number of times aforementioned officials stayed at aforementioned properties: 630
-Number of countries whose officials have stayed at trump properties: 57...
That’s just a few of the easy to find ones... but the list goes on.
43
By the GOP.
4
I find it disconcerting that New York Times readers have questions as to whether the Trump conversation with Zelensky was inappropriate!!!
38
@Daniel
They should have asked - what was not perfect about it?
Doesn't matter one bit to me. It's a canard Dems have used to excuse losing in '16. Did the Russians prevent Hillary from visiting Wisconsin at least once? Her husband warned her about losing the white working class badly but she went with Brooklyn advisers. Russia had nothing to do with any of it.
11
There’s a big difference between advice and influence that is domestic and advice and influence that is overseas for a political campaign.
6
This is about 2020, not 2016. But it is nice to see you are so devoted to ensuring foreign nations can interfere in the US government.
3
@Ed , Trump's violation of the law doesn't matter to you? Why not?
3
Not that many years ago trump was a registered democrat, donatong lots of money to campagins, now he tries to trash them. Its almost to funny, because he trashes anyone who speaks against him, to include those in his own GOP party. I dont believe thst trump is really a true Republican. I think instead a R or D letter next to his name, its just a big T, itd all about him.
7
@Ricky Donald Trump has no party. He has no loyalty to any association, group, organization-he has shown no loyalty to the beliefs, traditions, values of the United States. He has demonstrated his contempt for his supporters repeatedly since before his election. It is "all about him".
Yeah but laws don't apply to Trump right?
4
It is all in the delivery. Obama knew how to do it. He knew how to use the drones. He knew how to assassinate enemies of the state. He knew how to put children in cages. He knew how deport. It is all in the implementation. Trump is the most transparent President the US has ever had. Consequently a large part of the US population is very uncomfortable with this. Looking in the mirror and having to see all your imperfections is not always pleasant.
8
Transparent people do not require and enforce NDAs.
2
@P&L
Treating the press well and courting their favor matters above all else.
You think Nixon would have been brought down over a burglary if he hadn't enacted legislation to ban tobacco advertising? Tobacco advertising was the largest media sponsor of the day, for both tv and print newspapers.
2
Be careful on how you judge Trump’s transparency. Trump is transparently in love with his gut or how he wings it and transparent in his anguish at all others who see it otherwise. Yeah, reasons are cheap. Still the instincts of a man who is plain weird for the job are just as inexplicable for a man cut from the traditional cloth of the office who if asked why he made a decision would say something like, “I gave it some thought and I based the decision on my good judgement.”
Reasons are a form of communication that allow the individual listening to see, hear, read, and in context arrive at feeling in their own gut that what’s said makes sense. And I’ll ignore the confusion of near non sequiturs such as Normandy or secured Oil.
1
Anyone who doesn't see how criminal and worthy of impeachment and removal this is, just doesn't want to admit obvious facts.
-- "The sky is blue and the grass is green."
-- "Nope. The grass is blue and the sky is green. You're confused. You think I'm lying? Get over it. That's what we do in politics, we lie and you let us lie."
13
@JLT
What is the crime?
@Jim What isn't?
1
One of the high crimes the framers had in mind was accepting money from a foreign power, or what Alexander Hamilton said was giving in to “the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.”
A constitutional test awaits all those Republican Senators who have claimed a “strict constructionist” interpretation of the US Constitution.
313
@Garry. It would be nice to have a list of those senators and representatives for whom this is true. Thanks
12
Hamilton said a lot in that paper including “No senator, representative, or other person holding a place of trust or profit under the United States, can be of the numbers of the electors” which largely is in the Constitution. I’ve wondered if profiting in the past is apparent in current profits even if by consideration of compound interest.
1
@Garry. - It would if 'strict constructionist' hadn't always been a convenient fig leaf for Scalia and his ilk to say the Constitution meant what they would like it to mean.
11
When Mr. Mulvaney says get over it, he, Donald Trump and the President's administration are really shoving their actions and positions down America's throats and saying the President can do whatever he wants, period. Those are the actions and positions of a dictator, not a United States President. Sorry to dampen your enthusiasm, Mr. Mulvaney, but President Trump is not a dictator and he is fully accountable to the American people for all of his actions. America is a country of laws, not whims. And if you can't get over that, resign your office. That would be one less enemy America has to be concerned about.
18
It matters because so many of Trump's actions are in direct conflict with the constitution. Alexander Hamilton, James Monroe and John Jay spelled all of their concerns and remedies with respect to presidential corruption, self dealing and the use of foreign influence in the Federalist Papers. These were written in defense of our constitution. Trump can't even read these documents much less understand them.
3
It’s not just that Trump blatantly pressured the President of Ukraine to give him something negative about his political opponents, even if he had to make it up, but he withheld military aid until the President agreed. Trump also sent in Giuliani and a couple of thugs to get this done outside of any official channels because he knew that what he was doing was illegal.
But not only was he doing that, but he was putting our safety, and the safety of Ukraine and Europe at risk but weakening the military of Ukraine that was battling to keep Russia from taking their territory.
It is the same thing Trump did when he decided to just pull our forces out of Syria. He put our forces, and the lives of the people who were our allies for years, at great risk. He did this with no warning and no time to prepare for it. This, obviously, to everyone but Lindsey Graham, now, has had disastrous results.
Trump should be impeached both for using mob tactics in Ukraine, but also for being a huge security risk for our country and the world. He should be impeached and removed quickly, before thousands more innocent people die as the result of his impulsive and callous actions.
15
Mulvaney's ethics were clear when he was a congressman: Pay to Play. The Times reported on this last year, noting that Mulvaney told a group of bankers at a conference: “We had a hierarchy in my office in Congress. If you’re a lobbyist who never gave us money, I didn’t talk to you. If you’re a lobbyist who gave us money, I might talk to you.” (Mulvaney, Watchdog Bureau’s Leader, Advises Bankers on Ways to Curtail Agency, Apr. 24, 2018.) Mind you, Trump never needed a tutorial on how to shake down potential customers.
21
US foreign policy should be "Made in the USA'; not in Saudi Arabia, not in Israel, not in Russia, not any other country.
3
Stunning really, that US citizens, readers of the NYTimes could be so utterly unfamiliar with our US Constitution that such questions are even asked at all. It is THE forbidden "High Crime and Misdemeanor" spelled out in the Constitution. It looks like a lot of US citizens haven't read the Constitution any more than they've read "The Bible" they keep yapping about. What are we going to do about this massive inability to actually read and comprehend? Even the old saw "Horse Sense" would make the foreign interference issues obvious but apparently those "horses" cannot find the barn. 6 decades of cutting public education has got us to a place where horses can look right down into the water and simply will not drink. Thank a Republican. Now those mentally emaciated horses are herded around by the nose. Thank Fox News. Education is important says the guy with 20/20 hindsight.
17
@Joseph Of course, 'most' of us understand that it is very wrong for foreign nations to influence our elections. It's a good thing for the NYT to spell it out in clear language so readers have that knowledge/basis for their understanding. They may need to be able to shore up their arguments in case of emergency with the holidays coming up.
2
@Joseph
Accepting or soliciting foreign assistance in a campaign is not identified in the Constitution as a high crime or misdemeanor.
1
@Jim You are 'correct'? but then the Framers did not feel it necessary to spell out in explicit detail every action that should have been a 'high crime or misdemeanor'. Maybe they thought that criminal acts might vary with the times? And that future citizens/government officials would 'know one when they saw it'?
The NYT is missing the forest for the trees by saying it's politically helpful to Mr. Trump to accuse Ukraine of hacking Democratic Party emails "because it would show he was elected president without...Russian help." No, no, no. Trump is floating this theory to exonerate Russia so economic sanctions can be lifted. Which directly benefits Putin and his Russian mafia. Nancy Pelosi wasn't kidding when she told the President that "all roads with you lead to Putin." The evidence for her assertion is overwhelming, and reducing Trump's potentially treasonous behavior to political hi jinks plays right into his hands.
18
@Emma Ess I believe you attribute a level of cunning to Mr Trump which he simply does not posses.
@ROC He has 'people'.
"Get over it!"
This from the (mal)administration that campaigned on "draining the swamp".
Swamp creatures have never had it so good! Almost every current cabinet secretary qualifies, and the President is the worst of them all.
7
Imagining myself a U.S. soldier today somewhere in the Middle East or a young person in this country who is now contemplating military service, I have a hard time imagining any of them being heartened by the prospect of being shuffled around like a pawn on a chessboard by a know-nothing ignoramus like Trump.
6
Mulvaney's "Get over it!" comment is the height of arrogance. It screams 'Autocratic regime in control here, and if you don't like it, leave!' This is ostensibly what all criminals do: When confronted with irrefutable facts, first they deny, then they obfuscate, then they capitulate, then they blame the accuser, the media for reporting the truth, and the electorate. Anyone who thrived under Mussolini or Franco would feel perfectly comfortable with the autocratic belligerence of Mulvaney and the rest of the Trump crime syndicate.
6
The best way to get over it, is to remove Trump.
12
When Trump fires the "interim" Mulvaney, the "interim" will easily find a job with the internationall detective agency of Groucho, Chico, Harpo, and Giuliani.
6
I am really amazed that ANY US Citizen doesn’t understand why one political party should not ask a foreign country to interfere with our elections—especially NYT readers.
6
Oh Mr. Tea Party Fraud extremist, we are so over it. CNN reports that our “Did I Just Confess” genius got a standing ovation from “senior White House Staffers” at a meeting this AM. Is that Jared and Ivanka? BTW, can someone do a wellness check on Rick Perry. Thanks
4
@Joe B. Expected behavior for this administration- recall while Reince Priebus was still Chief of Staff the nauseating statements of all the Cabinet level sycophants except one seated around the table.
I remain confused about the Steele dossier. That included involvement from the UK, Australia, and Russia.
2
@Talbot, the Steele Dossier was compiled by a private citizen. You're free to do any research you want, including by talking to your contacts in foreign governments. Do you see how your research project differs from a Presidential request to a foreign spy agency or government, especially an adversarial one like China or Russia?
1
@Dubious But the information was supplied to the FBI and was one of the bases for the Russia investigation.
2
I can’t believe we are at a place in human (American) intelligence where we must explain why foreign interference in our elections is unacceptable and impeachable. The apathy and deficit of critical thinking skills in the collective American mind is alarming.
5
That picture is so offensive with Ivanka Trump in the background, clearly participating in the meeting. Remember the complete and utter GOP uproar and outrage with Hillary Clinton trying to participate in her husband’s presidency?
11
@cm And for those of us old enough to remember, a great hue and cry from Repubicans when JFK appointed Bobby Kennedy Attorney General. Nepotism! they screamed. I was 16, raised a liberal, and I was horrified that the president would appoint his brother to a significant government position. How silly that seems today with Ivanka and Jared in "advisory" positions, drawing a government paycheck and an opportunity to burnish their "brands."
3
@cm It's such a great gig for Ivanka she gets to travel the word using her daddy's job to gain trademarks and business deals and only has to show up when she feels like it.
2
@lhc And now Don Jr. can bring his elephant parts into the US.
I agree with Ms. Weintraub...I'm surprised she had to explain this. Moreover, I'm surprised the NYT needed to print an article with statements such as "other countries have their own interests," or Mr. Trump "could find himself indebted to other countries." Isn't that axiomatic.
2
Yes, Alexander Hamilton and others in those days full of fear of interference from France and England spoke about foreign influence. What does that matter to young people today? I understand that US history is not taught as a compulsory subject in public schools nowadays. Ditto for civics. Young people are schooled in universal human themes, we are all brothers and sisters no matter where we live. Online communication and jet travel have broken down the ominousness behind foreign borders and influence that existed in times long past. I fear that "get over it" is a sensible brush-off in the minds of young people who feel no connection to the historical perspectives at the foundation of our Constitution and the prescient wisdom of our Founders.
1
I’m not at all sure this attitude is rooted in how long ago people were born. Currently my septuagenarian grandmother is the only person I know who is clamoring for me and my kind to ‘get over it’. Observe the age of the overwhelming majority of Congresspeople and you will realize that generationally speaking, people under thirty-five don’t hold a lot of seats. The people who can actually vote in Congress to move this process forward are one or two generations removed from mine. Maybe see this political tire fire for what it is: a slew of confused people taken in by a huckster. I think if we focus on reducing the number of confused people parroting party talking points (rather than focusing on the particular cohort of fools that bears the most responsibility for foisting this festering boil of a human being on us all) we can all get along much better.
I think what Mulvaney was really trying to say when he admitted it all was, "I'm taking this up to a higher level of boldness".
He didn't think it would backfire.
8
The readers are right; it is a very minor matter and will not about to anything.
The Man in office will emerge stronger than ever, and his detractors will seem like rabid hounds.
He will undo himself eventually, probably, but not yet.
The conspiracy of Giuliani, Barr, Pompeo, Mulvaney, and Pence to participate in Trump's efforts to extort made-up dirt on a potential presidential foe is illegal, an abuse of power, and so patently corrupt that immediate removal is necessary for all named here.
The offense is basic to what the framers were thinking when the impeachment clause was written. Putin is benefiting from all of Trump's decisions and Russian news has pronounced Putin the winner, with one Russian writer even suggesting that Trump may indeed be a Russian agent.
10
@Newman1979 The men listed above received 'excellent' educations (probably). Many commenters today are blaming our current state of affairs on the lack of education in civics/history/ethics.... It is not our children who are carrying out president's policies. Pompeo and Pence are known to be 'strong' believers. How do their beliefs inform their actions?
1
@pat Basically anybody that works for Trump gets corrupted, either in the underlying action or the coverup. Also Trump rarely acts alone.
I’m surprised by one omission: Nixon’s spoiling of Vietnamese peace talks in 1968 to help his campaign.
20
You are correctly reminding us of the underhanded use Nixon made of stalling the peace talks to his strategic advantage. Another lesson we need a refresher about.
7
@Ludwig Van What about Reagan and the prisoners?
3
@Talbot
Right! (Assuming you mean hostages.) And subsequently sending Iran arms.
It is frightening that Americans need to have the danger of seeking foreign assistance in our elections explained. Three simple facts. Our founding document (The Constitution) states that it is illegal in plain english. Follow this or our democracy is at risk. We believe in 'government by the people and for the people' should always be a guiding principal. The people are not from Russia, China, Iran or Ukraine. The values we stand for (human rights, democracy, peace, equality, compassion) are not shared by all countries. Do we really want them helping to chose our leaders?
9
Trump’s apologists are hopeless. He does not consider what he’s doing as well as he might so he makes obvious mistakes. No reasonable person can justify that.
3
Had Trump asked for a " favor " about a general line of corruption;we might be able to get over it .
-Instead he targeted an individual who is likely to become a political opponent.
-How many times can one man shoot himself in the same foot ?
3
@Kringletown, that would once by himself, plus once by each of the 3 amigos, then once by Mulvaney himself, then add Giuliani, Pompeo, Barr et al ... no foot to stand on really, until he recharges himself at his rallies and the cycle repeats itself. Nome sane?
1
Starve K - 12 education long enough and you end up with the awareness level of much of our population. Many districts no longer require civics. Do they even teach the Constitution?
Where do our people learn about government and citizenship?
We are left with a large chunk of the country devoted to the fabrications of social media and con men. No wonder they think Trump does nothing wrong.
14
Zelensky was and is in a lose lose situation.
It wasn’t surprising he stated he felt no pressure from trump and his cabal which has become a Republican talking point.
6
While reading comments about this and other issues over the past week, I have been — at turns — shocked, amazed, and saddened at how little most people apparently know about their government and its foundations and workings. That explains for the most part just how we got here. It shows just how devalued basic civics classes have become over the years.
Maybe the Times should consider doing explanatory pieces like this as Government 101 during election season, to help readers understand why our proper response to “Get over it” is, “No, we won’t.” An uninformed electorate is just as bad as an apathetic one.
12
As a nation we are in more trouble then I thought when you have to write on essay on why foreign interference is a problem.
13
I recall that it was widely reported after Reagan’s election over Carter that his representatives had approached the Iranian government about not making a deal with Carter for release of the hostages, proposing that they wait until after the election in return for a better deal. And that’s the way it played out.
11
When an official in the federal government tells/directs citizens to get over it, it is tantamount to giving an order. In this instance, the official is telling us that the executive branch will do what it wants, when it wants and how it wants and we are to simply accept.
There is a two-word response I would like to deliver to Mulvaney, but I respect this newspaper's request for civility. Therefore, I will state my father and his brothers did not fight in this nation's wars for a government that tells people how to think and feel.
509
@Tom Q — That was one of the most shocking things I’ve ever heard said from behind a White House podium. Sean Spicer was comic relief compared to Mick Mulvaney.
The utter contempt in which this administration holds the media — and by extension the public — is a huge threat to our domestic security.
The fact that some people don’t recognize authoritarian language and inclinations, and how they are bring manipulated into feeding into it, troubles me greatly. Trump, Mulvaney, et.al., are banking on the fact that we’ll all just shrug our shoulders and move on.
As they say, “Democracy isn’t free. You have to pay attention.” Never more true than now.
421
@Tom Q
Well said. Your comment brings into clear focus the fact that Trump's Chief of Staff told the American public that they have no right to information and input on how this government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" is operated by the Trump administration. It appears that we are to be sheep, meekly taking anything Trump chooses to do. Our parents and grandparents sacrificed for our democratic rights, but now we are to accept the pronouncements, made in secret, by this authoritarian.
42
Tom,
You said it all!
13
My guess is that most Americans, regardless of their party affiliation, want our elections to reflect the will of the people, not the will of Ukraine, Russia, China or other foreign governments. To me, it really is as simple as that.
While most of us are willing to begrudgingly accept a political outcome that does not align with our personal wishes, I'm assuming that very few (with a few Trump supporters excepted) would want a foreign government stepping in to alter that outcome.
One person, one vote with no voter suppression, no foreign interference or attack on our voting machines, and no exceptions should be what governs all of our elections, contrary to what Mr. Trump clearly believes.
29
The handful of Republicans who are still loyal to the country were with you until you brought up voter suppression and associated gerrymandering depriving their fellow citizens of the most important right. These crimes are American as apple pie for them. Get over it.
3
Three important points.
1. Asking for foreign assistance in an election is a crime and a High Crime even if you give nothing in return. No quid pro quo is necessary.
2. When the U.S. interferes in the politics of another nation, it is up to that government to defend against our attacks. If the president of that government accepts our help, he is betraying his country to help ours.
Likewise with another country tries to interfere in or elections, the president is supposed to defend our elections (not make moral equivalency arguments like "all governments do it.) When the president asksa foreign country to interfere in our elections (as Trump has done at least three times) or refuses to defend our elections and obstructs the investigation into those attacks, that is a betrayal of We the People.
3. These are Constitutional principles. It takes an amendment to the Constitution to overturn them, not a campaign promise and 48% of the vote. Just because Trump's bad likes when he sells us out doesn't mean that it its legal or Constitutional.
4. Information is a thing of value. The Emoluments Clause prohibits the president Grimm taking things if value from a foreign nation. Trump said he would accept information and use it in elections before telling the FBI. That is another reason why this is a High Crime.
25
@McGloin, point no. 2 is a good one that is not adequately addressed in this article. People who say "the U.S. meddles all the time" seem to have no sense of this country's national security interests. If you oppose what you see as U.S. meddling, then support policies to curtail it, but don't let down our own defenses out of some sort of self-flagellating Trumpian antiamericanism.
1
"Though" is the important word. It implies that there is something antecedent to the "next steps" that the Ukranian President was seeking to gain military assistance (he specifically mentioned Javelin anti-tank missiles-Russia has the largest tank force in the world, on his boarder). Mulvaney stated that there was no quid pro quo because the money flowed. If the money was restrained, there was attempted quid pro quo-the administration was simply caught in the middle of a bad act, so the money flowed. Being caught does not change the nature of the endeavor.
10
To paraphrase the short-staffed FEC Chair Ellen Weintraub, "I wouldn't have thought this needed explanation."
This country needs an overhaul of the way US history, civics, and constitutional foundations of democracy are taught. There is such woeful ignorance, which gets exploited by a political party that should know better.
Decreased funding for education, lack of uniform standards, and not helping students know how to think critically, and question what they read, have led us to this terrible place where too many are too susceptible to believing lies from political leaders.
35
@ChristineMcM — My son has degree in education. His goal was to teach history —U.S. and world — as well as geography at the high school level. He has not been able to find a job because most districts make it a prerequisite that such teachers have to also be able to coach a sport.
He has always had a passion for history and would have made a fine teacher, but he’s now looking at career paths outside education as he works a retail job to pay off his loans.
I get the emphasis on STEM — but not at the expense of learning the basics of how this country should function. Without that, nothing else really matters.
Sometimes I find it extremely difficult to tolerate the ignorance I see. Is it by institutional design or our own actions? I really don’t know anymore.
9
I’m disappointed in this article.
I want Trump gone as much as anyone else, but I think the impeachment reasons laid out in the article are too abstract. Trump’s behavior is portrayed as technically incorrect, but, from Trump’s point of view, conducted with the Ukraine, a minor country that really has little capacity to harm the U.S. (substitute Gabon or Paraguay) and which could be bullied into silence should future questions be raised.
Trump’s wrongs, as explained here, are very problematic to me, but from the neck up only. They don’t shake me to my bones, as they need to for the President of the United States to be removed from office.
To be clear, I’m not minimizing Trump’s offense. I want better, more visceral explanations of the threat his actions pose to the American public as a whole.
3
I’d ask you to imagine a “hit and run” incident on the road. Does the value of the vehicle hit determine the severity of the offense. If Bernie Sanders crossed over to Quebec and asked the Canadians for some “dirt” on Trump, would that be serious enough for you?
3
@Derf Trump put national security at risk by withholding military funds to Ukraine. A country that is currently on edge with Russia. To look back, we can see Russia setting up it's pieces with it's annexation of Crimea only a short while ago. Right now it is expanding operations in Syria, Iran, and even in parts of Africa.
Russia seems to be favoring government officials around western countries who have an isolationist or disruptive agendas to drive away not only military operations but also strategic and decades built diplomatic relations. Once ties are damaged or severed, there's a vacuum that can be and has been filled by Russia. Looking at this as individual events might appear flat, but looking it as a chess board is when things become troubling.
America's standing in the world and our national security is at risk when parts of the globe fall away from us. It is outrageous that Trump has put a country's existence on the line in order to acquire personal political favors. It's impossible to predict cause and effect but we should not be so brazen when it comes to foreign relations.
5
The people asking these questions are from where?
People really need it explained to them why a foreign government's influence on a political candidate, or an elected member of our government is bad?
Maybe the real question is (as explained by Alexander below) how can it be illegal when a republican does it. It's only illegal when done by a democrat.
6
Trump supporters do not see a difference between someone running for office, doing "opposition research" versus someone who has been elected President of the United States, who is (supposedly) serving the taxpaying, non-partisan interests of all Americans doing anything he can get away with to get re-elected. He's just a different kind of president. Re-election is job #1 and everything else is a distraction. Get over it.
This also explains why Trump hosting an official function at his golf course--and letting us have it at cost, with 2-for-1 drink coupons--is not something the president should be doing.
7
US hasn’t just meddled in other countries’ affairs in the past, it is still meddling and will continue to meddle in other countries’ affairs for its own interests, except there is always the same cover story that the American public is willing to buy, that America is on the side of freedom and democracy when it interferes overseas.
6
Perhaps, but it is up to those countries to defend against foreign influence according to their own laws.
Also, in this case our dear leader solicited interference and worse asked for something of value to his political campaign as part of a conversation on our aid policy toward that country.
3
It’s hard to defend against a superpower that also dominates the narrative. The hope, slight as it is, is that American public may reflect a bit more on how their own Govt interferes in other countries’ affairs now they have seen how sinister it is, and it’s even more sinister when it is coated in a language that says it’s all for the good of the recipient countries.
1
We should be skeptical of our own intelligence agencies. But by design our agencies are subject to oversight by the all 3 independent branches of government. Call it credibility tinged with skepticism, or call it the reverse. By contrast, the skepticism due
Intelligence from a country like Ukraine or China should approach infinite. One would have to be acting from purely partisan motives to not acknowledge the problems with asking a foreign country to investigate a US citizen.
6
History will regard this presidency as one of collaboration with America’s adversaries. This is not necessarily because the president feels that your system of governance is lacking, but because he sees autocracies as more favorable to his financial advantage.
31
Trump didn't ASK for election help from a foreign country. He tried to extort it by withholding taxpayer money that was appropriated by Congress to achieve American foreign policy aims. He not only solicited interference in our elections, he subverted our security interests to gain a benefit for himself. And he did it using our money.
If you think big-donor money and dark money fed into PACs that don't have to report their funding sources distort our elections, imagine what unfettered foreign money buying favors from candidates that go against the interests of the American people would be like.
Remember, in the Citizens United ruling the Supreme Court equated money with speech. Allowing foreign countries to contribute things of value -- be it money, ads, contributions-in-kind or opposition research -- is giving them a say in our government. Self determination, the bedrock of our democracy, is diluted or lost when foreign entities further their own interests by influencing who gets elected.
I'm surprised The New York Times has to explain this.
307
@Former NBS student: I agree. Putting the matter in a very basic terms that any employer or employee would under stand, what Trump did was misuse his employer provided telephone privileges and company assets to conduct and further his private interests. For such an act an employee may be discharged and denied unemployment benefits.
24
@Former NBS student I thank the New York Times for this piece. But it is horrific that you even had to do it. People should know this in their gut.
If the Patriots Football team asked the South Carolina Panthers for help in winning the game... well you would just know that something was wrong in Denmark.
And “Yes” great point about about Citizens United equating money with speech, in kind contributions of research.
Stop this nightmare!
20
@Former NBS student
The proper role of the press is to inform readers and hold all political leaders accountable. The press does this by revealing the truth and facts of politicians words and actions. Only an informed electorate’s vote will preserve our republic.
19
So the Clinton campaign’s sourcing of damaging “intel” on Trump and his associates from foreign sources goes completely unmentioned in this article because it’s completely different. Sorry, but there are tens of millions of Americans that think otherwise. Clinton used a former government agent in Britain, and other foreign sources with ties to other foreign governments to compile a widely discredited “report” that was widely disseminated to the media by then US government “anonymous sources”
Impeach Obama,
Trump has been consistently open and honest about his intent to investigate allegations of wrongdoing by Democrats during the 2016 election.
All the News Thats Fit to Print
Oops, that’s supposed to be your tag line!
5
@Alexander Even if this were true, this kind of whataboutism is not helpful to any argument. Even if we stipulate that the Clinton campaign didwhat you claim, that doesn't absolve the Trump administration. It may even strengthen the Democrats' argument. By your own admission, asking for dirt on a political rival from a foreign government is wrong and should not be allowed. If you're upset by the idea of the Clinton campaign engaging in this kind of behavior, why does the Trump administration get a pass?
18
@Alexander You cite 'the Clinton campaign'. Do you understand the difference between a political campaigns opposition research and a President using the power of his office and the threat of withholding already appropriated national security funds to force another country to do his political dirty work? What campaigns do they do with their own money. What trump has done is use office and taxpayer dollars to further his own personal agenda.
19
@Alexander Clinton did not ask a foreign country to investigate Trump. That is the issue here--a foreign country being used to interfere in an election and thereby gaining influence as a result or being penalized for not helping achieve a result.
12
I would not have thought this needed saying either but thank you for spelling out clearly that inviting foreign meddling in our electoral process is unacceptable, to put it mildly.
Now, please prepare a version formatted in "Dick and Jane" primary reader style for those people who refuse to grasp that this constitutional crisis has not been invented by democrats but has been brought on by trump himself.
Be sure to include the fact that impeachment is a process allowed by the constitution, it is not an attempted "coup".
153
@Bailey - Better yet, buy ad space on Fox News and run it there. It boggles the mind that any of this needs to be said but the bigger problem is that the people who need to read this, won't.
8
@Jennifer Or if they even bothered to read it would just ignore the facts and stick with the "alternative" facts spun out by Fox.
@Jennifer Excellent idea.
If only we regarded corporate and billionaire interference (unions too, if you insist, though the scale is tiny by comparison) as similarly fatal to democracy.
And, even if corporations are people, why would the law regard a multi-national which manages its taxes in Ireland or the Caymans as a U.S. person?
34
@jrd
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility.
No. Never. Corporations are not people. They are legal entities. People are legal entities. But they are not the same.
Maybe it’s unpatriotic or even treasonous...
4
If the situation were reversed, Democrat President, Republican House, would we be having this conversation? What if a Democrat were saying, for the President, "get over it?"
I know memories are short, and it's hard to think straight these days, but is there any question that a Republican House would have impeached a Democrat President ten times by now? The only difference is where a Democrat may have sinned quietly, Trump sins in plain sight. Even where his administration tries to cover up, they cover up badly, and then brazenly condemn any call to be held accountable.
The whispered message, that all Trump's fans hear loud and clear, is that a Republican president is above the law.
With Trump it will be only a matter of time before he lets it slip openly: I am above the law, get over it.
And his fans will love it, because they think he's their President. If he was someone else's President, lock him on up!
459
More than that he’s their President, to them he’s a god-like figure who can do no wrong.
28
@White Plains Drifter - just a note: the adjective is "democratic," not "democrat." Even those who would least like to denigrate in linguistic ways our political speech get pulled in to the patterns set on the right with their lockstep communication. I don't know how the republicans have had such success in literally setting the terms of discourse, but they have made a real science of it for quite some time. Scurrilous, really.
21
@Murray Suid His followers are displaying cult-like behaviors.
15
Dear Readers,
Are we really so naive and childlike as to believe that administrations don’t use foreign aide for political gain? Anything that a President does will in some way always have political outcomes in mind. Do we really believe that we give BILLIONS of dollars away with no strings attached? While coarse and ugly, the President has revealed what we hate to admit about our world. Mulvanyey was inarticulate, but don’t get too excited and in fact be happy that we know the truth.
6
@Paul The issue is an American election in which one of the candidates asks a foreign country to come to his aid in order to win. This is not about whether the US has tried to influence the outcome of elections. The guilty party is not the foreign country, but the candidate who seeks its influence on his/her behalf.
59
@Paul This is why the waters are muddy and why this article spelling things out is so useful. Strictly speaking, there has always been a quid pro quo when it comes to foreign aid. The difference between every other case and what the Trump administration has been trying to do is what other administrations have tried to get in return for foreign aid has been to benefit our country, or perhaps to try and benefit the country we are giving the aid to. Ukraine is rife with corruption. One only has to look at several alumni of the Trump administration - who are either in jail or awaiting sentencing - for corruption relating to Ukraine (and Turkey). But Trump wasn't withholding military aid contingent on Ukraine fighting corruption because good governance is good for Ukraine. He was - through Rudy Giuliani - looking for very specific information that was not significant for Ukraine but was potentially beneficial for his reelection campaign.
4
Our system says the President is the highest law enforcement officer in the land. The President asks a foreign country to help with a law enforcement investigation that he believes is merited. People can disagree on whether it’s merited, but not that it’s illegal to do so.
1
I got over it...this is the new world order...this is the way things will be from now on. We can thank social media.
2
Trump attempted to leverage U.S taxpayer funds to buy a Presidential election by trashing an opponent with a spurious investigation. The very fact that there has to be an article explaining why this is wrong demonstrates the gross ignorance and Constitutional illiteracy of large segments of the electorate.
158
And Republican office-holders.
@J.M. I agree. However, in the case of most trump supporters I believe it is a willful ignorance. They honestly do not care, as long as trump "sticks it to" the "others" they deem not worthy of the civil rights of American citizenship (i.e., people of color, non-"Christian", or of a sexual orientation other than their own).
1
The pot calling the kettle black. Though I think what Pres Trump did is impeachable to act holier than though is hipocritical.
2
Such high-mindedness and all anti-Trump. Just a coincidence, of course.
2
Yes, you’ve got that right! Plus a person who is pro-trump is never ‘high-minded’.
2
There are two things I'd like to add. First, to the argument that the United States has meddled in other countries's affairs in the past, that is inarguably true. However, if I rob someone's house, that doesn't give that person the right to rob someone else. America should hold itself accountable and learn from its past misdeeds in order to show the strength of our democracy, not erode our rule of law by dismissing all illegal activity as "everyone does it." That's exactly the argument Putin wants to make: the United States is no better than Russia, and democracy is a hypocritical lie.
Second, although it is also true that politics is always part of foreign policy, the glaring difference here is that President Trump wasn't asking for some kind of concession from Ukraine on behalf of United States's policy interests. Unlike Joe Biden's trip to Ukraine, Mr. Trump wasn't asking for a corrupt prosector to be removed in exchange for investments and loan guarantees worked out by the State Department, Justice Department, White House, IMF, and 38 countries of the E.U. No, Mr. Trump was asking for personal help to cast doubt on the Mueller report and get dirt on his leading political opponent. That's flat out illegal.
So, no, Mr. Mulvaney, we will not "get over it," because doing so would mean trashing what has made America so special: our Constitution, democracy, and the rule of law.
666
@jrinsc I agree. Even if Biden Jr. did something wrong, it should be dealt with. To use it as an excuse to commit crimes is absurd.
33
Stephen, and just how are we supposed to “do something” if Biden’s actions were wrong. Oh, that’s right, investigate. Oh, that’s right, if the misdeeds involved foreign nationals in a foreign country, we may need to ask that foreign country’s cooperation into said investigation. Okay, got that straight.
2
@jrinsc "However, if I rob someone's house, that doesn't give that person the right to rob someone else"
Indeed. I too would like to know what the son of a vice-president does to earn $50,000 a month (in a country with an average income less than $500 per month), other than being the son of a vice-president, but even if there were impropriety there to be found, that in no way excuses the corrupt nepotism of the current regime.
That makes it more than ironic to see Don Jr. hypocritically railing against nepotism and favoritism in American government and politics, as he has done multiple times now. Does anybody think for one second that Jr. could pull down $50,000 for a 25-minute speech, as he did last week in Florida, if he weren't the President's son? Any Trump supporter should be very careful about throwing stones in that glass house.
48
When elections are bought by big money it is not surprising to see foreign interests getting in on the act, notably Saudi Arabia and Israel.
23
Readers ask a reasonable question and get a propaganda piece in respnse.
There is - zero - evidence that Trump intended to influence the 202 election, and - mountains - of evidence showing that he wants answers about Ukrainian government involvement in the 2016 election cycle Russia Collusion scam.
Trump doesn't need to do anything to reduce Biden's chances, and he knows that. Biden will do that all by himself, by opening his mouth and saying dumb things.
6
@Objectivist
Ok, he did not try to influence the "202 election" but there is no question that he is spending almost every waking minute trying to influence the "2020 election"
6
@Objectivist Did you also buy that bridge? Wake up!
1
@Objectivist, Trump has been running a re-election campaign, trying to influence the 2020 election through presumably legal means, since his inauguration.
1
We the resistance must thank Mulvaney for our ultimate slogan. "Get Over It!" This ultimate declaration of arrogance fits nicely on a T-shirt or picket sign, and it has many meanings, and can morph nicely into a beautiful headline for November 4, 2020.
"Over It!"
39
Trump has always been, is now, and will always be, interested in only one thing - himself.
Integrity, honesty, legality, truth, are all irrelevant in his pursuit of whatever he desires.
As others have said, he is a malignant narcissist.
62
@Richard Phelps
Yes Trump is only interested in himself, and that is exactly why his supporters love him. They are only interested in themselves.
The President is supposed to put We the People, the Constitution, and the law above his personal interests.
Trump is unwilling and unable to put We the People above his personal interests, which means that every official decision that he makes is a High Crime or Misdemeanor, because the INTENT behind the decision is unconstitutional.
For example, the president has the right to fire any of his appointees of the intent is Constitutional, but when the intent is to further his personal interests, it becomes unconstitutional.
INTENT is critical in the law. It is the difference between Manslaughter and First Degree Murder. Intent can have the difference between going home and life in prison.
How many times can someone kill people by accident, before you realize the intent was murder?
How many times can the president accidentally violate the Constitution, before we say his intent is to violate the Constitution?
Trump announces his intent to violate the Constitution regularly, and often follows through on his threat. These are High Crimes.
7
In their minds they are above the law. You’ll never change that as it’s rooted in willful ignorance.
8
@VIKTOR not "willful ignorance," malign intent
Really, there are people who have to ask,
".......why, exactly, another nation’s interference in the democratic process is such a serious issue."??
Glad you included fears/concerns expressed during Constitutional convention by Hamilton, Mason. Sure you could have gone on: Madison, Washington, .....etc.
21
“Get over it”.
We’re not going to fight corruption. We accept it, and we revel in it. We will use it to thwart you. We are strong and might makes right. Now be quiet, and hand over any shreds of democracy you have left.
24
If indeed there were improprieties in Biden & sons affairs, I would expect the FBI to be asked to pursue the issues.
Trump’s method of sending personal emissaries like Giuliani is doubly toxic - it not only casts the FBI in a negative light, and enables individuals like Giuliani to structure deals for their own self-enrichment.
Put American law enforcement in control again, enough of the “deep state” nonsense.
77
Shouldn't this question be asked more precisely? It is
not merely the asking for interference, it is the insistence
that such interference occur lest bipartisan legislatively approved financial/military support not be transferred to the foreign government.
Isn't this the much more egregious offense?
12
@bl
Why?
@Jim
A lesson in federalism perhaps is in order. The
legislative branch decides how and whether
the executive branch spends tax payer money.
The decision, once made, it is then incumbent upon the executive branch to see to it that the
taxpayers dollars are spent according to
Congress' intent. This is what the law dictates
should occur.
Refusing to do so or adding supplementary
conditions not approved by Congress is not consistent with executing the intent of Congress, as is clearly the case with the Ukraine arm purchases.
As such, it's a usurpation of the constitutional role of Congress in spending your money, my
money, and everyone else's.
Don't you think that is particularly offensive?
If not, why not?
The posit that Trump sought "another nation’s interference in the democratic process is such a serious issue," is patently dishonest. Words matter. The phrase "interference in the democratic process" connotes a devious scheme to control or subvert the vote or to compromise the system under which elections are implemented. The President asked for information that may support a theory he has. Whether that theory has been 'debunked' or not, asking for information is not akin to asking "another nation’s interference in the democratic process."
5
Under your theory, if one accepts it, would you care to try to explain Rudy's constant barrage on our electoral process with constantly putting forth his "fact" that the Biden's are corrupt? To the point of actually damaging Biden, witness his shrinking popularity and shrinking dollars raised? Also, if it's nothing why is right wing media focused on it 24-7?
Trump fed John Solomon, through Bannon & Schweitzer a "theory" that has been driven home remorselessly for well over a month now. Purely and simply election interference from a foreign source and an impeachable offense and I submit a violation of law requiring imprisonment. Now if you go off on the foreign aspect of it, how do you condone the constant attacks on the Steele Dossier?
He used the threat of denying tax payer money to ‘investigate’ this ‘corruption’! Trump is a con artist now GET OVER IT!
2
@johnlo, I don't think the connotations that arise in your mind are shared by U.S. law, including campaign finance law.
A nice and extreme historical example of how damaging external influence can be is the Partitions of Poland in the 18th century. Russia, Prussia and Austria bought off political leaders in Poland to the point of weakening the country so that it could be divided among them out of existence for more than a century.
8
People who vote in our federal elections but who are not citizens go to prison. Our democracy is meant to be for only American citizens to vote, and efforts to allow all of us to be able to vote are a critical part of our history. We want Americans to decide who we want as our leaders. For that reason we have laws that forbid foreign political contributions or direct foreign involvement in our elections. The 2016 election clearly indicated problems in that regard, and provided clear warnings of the danger to the fairness of our election processes.
Despite that background, what Trump offered was to “trade” his powerful support for foreign involvement in our next election, specifically to get dirt (real or fake) against his prime potential opponent for the 2020 election. That “trade” has been pretty well confirmed by the abridged White House call transcript and more recently by Trump’s Chief of Staff. By openly welcoming foreign involvement in our election (also including from Russia and even China), Trump has committed exactly the type of “high crime” our founding fathers referenced as grounds for impeachment. If the House impeaches Trump, the Senate will have a strict constitutional duty, and each Senator’s oath of office will require them to put country above party.
To do less at any stage of this mess will be a failure to support our future as an American democracy.
50
@Ron Adam I agree with most of your statement but would like to point out that what Trump offered to trade was not his. It was Congress-approved military aid, which presumably came from federal tax dollars. What he offered to trade was ours, actually.
7
It is not difficult to understand why Americans want no foreign interference in elections.If one is fortunate to read Chernow”s excellent books on Washington and Grant , it is easy to realize that the United States started as a fragile democracy and later during the Civil War nearly broke into two countries.During both times foreign countries were eager to support opposing factions in order to gain territory or influence over the young country.The founders of the country who wrote the Constitution were extremely fearful that foreign influence would destroy the American democracy.George Washington in his farewell address said that one of the greatest dangers to the United States were the “insidious wiles” of foreign powers.We can never get over it-our democracy was formed to insulate us from foreign influence then and now.
25
Remember when the policy was that politics stopped at the border and that America spoke with one voice with both our allies and our enemies? Those days are gone. Now, other counties know they can't trust us because the next President can totally change the agenda. Sad, so sad.
7
“At its most basic level, asking another government for help — whether a quid pro quo existed or not — means that Mr. Trump would find himself indebted to another country.”
Well, that spells out the nothingburgerness of the whole thing right there: Trump never pays his debts.
16
Another way to put it is that kompromat can have no effect on an utterly shameless man.
1
Mr. Trump's obsession with the debunked Ukraine server story smacks of desperation in the light of falling polls (even Rasmussen!) and administration officials willing to testify against him: " ... Trump has viewed the world as a dark, dangerous place teeming with enemies out to get him ... Any capacity Trump ever had to think clearly or calmly has evaporated ... like a drowning man, all that matters to him is survival, no matter how much collateral damage his behaviors cause ... " (Tony Schwartz, Washington Post, 18Oct2019) Shakespeare knew this kind of person, e.g. Richard III: "The increasingly paranoid Richard loses what popularity he had. He soon faces rebellions led first by Buckingham and subsequently by the invading Richmond ... Richard is visited by the ghosts of his victims, all of whom tell him to 'Despair and die!' after which they wish victory upon Richmond. He awakes screaming for 'Jesus' to help him, slowly realizing that he is all alone in the world ... " (Wikipedia)
34
Mulvaney telling us to 'get over it' is obscene. His own remarks to the House prove Trump's actions are impeachable. It is not business as usual -- except perhaps for the thugs and cronies that populate the Trump administration.
I will not get over it.
429
@ClayB
Agreed. This article sums it up very well.
But can we get anyone to read it aloud on Fox News or Rush radio?
The people in this country who most need to understand these basic concepts are not hearing it - in fact hearing a lot of propaganda instead.
Can someone tweet this article to the president's followers?
10
@Election Inspector -- The people "who most need to understand" are not going to change - Trump's base is relatively static and unmoved. What astounds me are those that are still ignorant of what's going on in the White House, ignorant of The Constitution, and disinterested learning in the truth -- or only learning part of it. Those with, 'no opinion', or 'don't know', or 'don't care' - are willfully blind -- and many of them will be voting in 2020. Scary thought.
7
@LSW No they'll be some of the 100,000,000 who don't vote.
Extremely helpful and answers questions that stumped me. That said, I believed at the outset that what President Trump did in the phone call was wrong. Is it cause for impeachment? I don't know. But he has done so much bad stuff and has so sullied our reputation and duped so many citizens that he needs to go. Sooner the better.
Still, I much prefer we do so in the 2020 election. Frankly, I am weary of the whole mess yet I devour it each day as if I were starved. Go figure.
19
@Ed Hutchison
It needs to be done in the "court of law" that is available; and that is the congress. Whether or not the senate votes to find him guilty his crimes need a full public airing.
If for no other reason than as a warning to future wanna be dictators.
And as a warning to US to be wary of anyone who says "Only I can fix it."
3
Thank you for this NY Times. It seems like the problems should be obvious, but it's really nice to have it all laid out, with historical context.
89
Asking a foreign country to interfere in an election by rigging ballot machines, or manipulating voting mechanisms and other acts that are illegal. Asking for a foreign country to look into the corruption of a presidential candidate is not.
5
It sure is if you’re running against that candidate.
33
@Tes Says you. Can you be certain that the request was for "looking into" or was the request to manufacture evidence against a candidate? There's the flaw in your reasoning.
26
This took my breath away. Hard to believe one could read the article and respond with such a deeply troubling and frightening perspective.
This issue goes beyond the current administration and impacts our country’s future stability. Allowing another government to interfere in our elections process is wrong. We may have differences of opinion politically, but there are simply certain things in the political world that are unequivocally wrong. Abusing the office of the president for personal gain should never be acceptable under any circumstances.
I’m struggling to engage in civil discourse with people who have different points of view. But I don’t believe this particular issue allows for much shaded of gray.
68
Yes America often dangles foreign assistance for political support. All countries do, No President except for Trump demanded dirt on a political opponent in return for foreign assistance. There is a very big difference. What is shocking is the GOP's enabling of this President's corrupt behavior. That is the real tragedy to our political system. Trump is a toxic president poisoning our political system and the GOP is is nurse.
184
@GUANNA You need to more clearly state that we often dangle foreign assistance for support for our National agenda NOT for the Presidents personal agenda. Of course we want others to support our National goals. BUT Trump wants everyone to support his PERSONAL needs and desires. Trump doesn't care about our Nation's health. Just listen to his words.
10
There is proof of quid pro quo in Trumps words to the Ukrainian President Zelensky. He uses the conjunction "though" (although) which by definition connects trumps request for a favor to Zelensky's prior request for help. Grammatically the request is incumbent on the favor. The definition of a quid pro quo
126
@John MD
As if Donald Trump had any appreciation for the finer points of grammar.
5