worthless nonsense for kids to be wasting their brains away. what a shame. I destroyed my 14 year old's smart phone. If he sneaks a new one, I will destroy that one also.
When he was 6 I bought him a kindle which he used every day to read. When his idiot Mom bought him a smart phone at 9 he never picked up the kindle again.
12
Why is the Times promoting a Chinese app that censors content and may be a Chinese data mine? Try Imgur instead.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/02/opinion/will-china-export-its-illiberal-innovation.html
"...ByteDance, the Beijing-headquartered technology company that owns TikTok, is advancing Chinese foreign policy aims abroad through the app."
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing
33
My kids are TikTok famous with over four million views of their video (@kaiandshane). It was great to spend quality time having them explain the dang video to me, which took longer than the video. It was good to see them learn the lesson that being “famous” changes nothing. The next day, they still had to get up at 6:30 and go to school just like any other day. The 5000 comments were surprisingly supportive — I was worried at first when it went viral. It seems to be a very positive culture on TikTok. My only regret is that it won’t pay a dime for college. Whoever is making money on this, it’s not the kids who are creating the content. I’m not complaining, just noting that fact. (or maybe I am complaining)
12
The bull is out of the barn. Comments about privacy, Chinese involvement, and the downsides of promote yourself culture have a point but this is like arguing the dangers of electricity. It ain't goin nowhere. And that an app that is used to promote a group effort and canaderie among students is a welcome sign. Its a sign that the narcissistic veneer of Instagram and Snapchat often don't satisfy and kids are perfectly normal and no more prey to the dooms of advancing culture than we were. Heck the birth control pill. Think about that as a culture changing event.
8
Months ago a friend shared a blog post where a mother found live streaming porn on TikTok.
5
Whatever it is, you can be sure the New York Times just killed it.
4
All the world’s a stage and we are merely players. If Shakespeare only had access to TikTok.
3
Instead of "a different kind of notoriety," Taylor, I think you mean "a different kind of fame." Notoriety is being well known for something bad.
3
I know nothing about Tik Tok other than what I read in this article. And perhaps it really is a positive force. but given the tone of this article, one might suspect that it was a paid advertisement by Tik Tok.
11
And in Philadelphia, several weeks ago, a young boy hung himself and died while following a Tik Tok “Hanging Challenge”. Obviously there must have been other factors involved but a program or application can program more than computers; it can also influence and rewire human synapses. Not always to the benefit of humans.
8
What a waste of time. Why don’t these kids just go for a walk? The woods, their block, anywhere! There’s more complexity, more life in the immediate environment than in any silly app repeating an algorithm to make a silly video you can watch over and over. Maybe it’ll go viral!
Meanwhile, life in all its richness and mystery slips away, irreproducible.
20
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok
In January 2019, an investigation by the American think tank Peterson Institute for International Economics described TikTok as a "Huawei-sized problem" that poses a national security threat to the West, noting the app's popularity with Western users including armed forces personnel, and its ability to convey location, image and biometric data to its Chinese parent company, which is legally unable to refuse to share data to the Chinese government. Observers have also noted that ByteDance's founder and CEO Zhang Yiming issued a letter in 2018 stating that his company would "further deepen cooperation" with Communist Party of China authorities to promote their policies. TikTok's parent company ByteDance claims that TikTok is not available in China and its data is stored outside of China, but its privacy policy has reserved the right to share any information with Chinese authorities. In response to national security, censorship, and anti-boycott compliance concerns, in October 2019, Senator Marco Rubio asked the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States to open an investigation into TikTok and its parent company ByteDance.
15
Between stories such as this and the one in the NYT today about the success of Republican digital ads, I get more worried each day about the future. More and more I see life mirroring art, and the possibility of some type of Black Mirror future.
5
There is something strange about TikTok that makes it seem more woke would do well to avoid not embrace. Part of this is the algorithm that decides too quickly what person you are, what your interests and leanings are. One time I stopped scrolling through TikToks to watch a pro-Trump one, and a was deluged for the next three with other MAGA ones just like it. The app is overrun with bots - fake accounts - that both follow viewers in a boost to their egosand leave the most inane, fortune-cookie type comments to viewers videos. Most times they are generic and have nothing todo with the video posted. It’s easy to recognize these bots when you know what to look for. Minor animal and people abuse are rampant on TikTok. I don’t understand those who speak of it as all goodness and light. It’s anything but that. Yes, there is SOME positivity on the app – but not nearly as much as reports indicate. There is much more NEGATIVITY and manipulation going on that I think needs to be studied and brought to light.
7
I want to take my kids and run from this shallow social media world.
17
I see there are immediate concerns about the implications of Chinese ownership. Maybe that's why it's called TikTok. The clock is ticking on American hegemony.
7
The clock is ticking.
4
OMG. Have people learned nothing? How much are these kids paying to post their material? Nothing? Then they are the product.
TikTok, like FB and IG and all the rest, are accumulating the kids’ data to be sold off. And teachers and school administrators are encouraging this?
18
Interesting story. As an oldster, I try to keep up with what the younger generations are up to, so clicked on this story....what was a TikTok club? Uh, still not sure what it is, does, but looks like fun. Evidently, creating unpolished, everyday events set to music?
Trying to put it into historical perspective (read, olden days), it seems to be kind of a musical pen pal kind of sharing? Culture sharing? I’d like to see that last-mentioned skit on being in the NYTimes. Music? My Way, or How Do You Like Me Now, or...?! Kids these days....lol!
Well, I was hoping the article would talk about TikTok’s parent company, and it’s ties to the Chinese Government. Guess that isn’t newsworthy. I’m going to read the article about the Hong Kong protesters writing “last letters” to loved ones now.
13
God help us. I fear we are breeding a generation of narcissists.
12
Great to see a digital pastime for kids that seems healthy and fun. Riffing off the last sentence of the piece, may I suggest that the NYT now give a subscription to each of the kids/clubs featured in the story? The gesture might just help them become life-long “real news” consumers.
1
What is incredible is that this Chinese company in India is paying rural area young people to post porn and near porn to attract rural users. They got hammered in the Indian courts and finally were allowed after they promised to stop.
With all the fainting around tech companies being all-powerful and the "new evil" - I am shocked that individuals and regulators are happy to adopt a company and platform that don't even bother to say they are ethical or moral.
I guess this is our new reality.
4
Sadly, maybe the concerns of the Chinese government are not unfounded. The Western world turns every possible communication tool, into into a venue for pornography. Recently in an article the NYT “exposed” how pedophiles shared millions and millions of pornographic pictures of abused children. Pornographers are always looking to use, every new social media tool to propagate their aberrant material.
5
Stay away from that Chinese sourced software unless your ok with the Chinese stealing your most intimate information. They're watching!
10
We are evolving into a nation of wannabes. Every jerk can become "star." Sad.
5
Tik Tok is unfunny, brainless, and worst of all, BORING. Optimally, I would get rid of it entirely, but I don’t think that’s possible. Schools do NOT need to support this junk.
10
Has anyone else noticed that all of the kids pictured appear to be Caucasian?
The photo of the Tik Tok club founder filming her TikTok says it all...a Caucasian, very well manicured hand operating a high end smart phone.
2
a Chinese company awarding teen boys chik a fila (the famously homophobic) company gift certificates for showing feelings? I obviously don't get it. to be young again....
I don’t trust Chinese owned media companies.
6
Y.A.W.N.....just the "latest" attention-grabbing distraction....NEXT !!
3
Tik Tok—owned by Chinese company. Giving them all our youth’s faces for their intelligence database.
7
This article is not balanced at all about who TIkTok is and puts on full display how naive the NYT can be. TIkTok is an arm of the Chinese government, collects private data, and advances the foreign policy strategies of the Chinese government such as suppressing the valid claims of Hong Kong protesters. I do not support organizations such as TIkTok any more than I do the KKK.
7
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok
In January 2019, the Chinese government said that it would start to hold app developers like ByteDance responsible for user content shared via apps such as Douyin, and listed 100 types of content that the Chinese government would censor. It was reported that certain content unfavorable to the Communist Party of China has already been limited for users outside of China such as content related to the 2019 Hong Kong protests. TikTok has cracked down on videos relating to human rights in China, particularly of abuses in Xinjiang. TikTok's policies also ban content related to a specific list of foreign leaders such as Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, and Mahatma Gandhi. Its policies also ban content critical of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and content considered pro-Kurdish.
4
Sure seems mighty white-privileged, or at least the coverage was.
3
Chinese AI gets kids to record themselves...what? me worry?
6
It is interesting that one teacher said the app promotes more teamwork and less bullying/focus on individuals. But the next paragraph says a popular meme is one that bullies and demeans freshmen students.
3
If schools are using this in the classroom, this is a major FERPA violation. The app advertises to its users and reserves the right to use content for purposes other then the educational purpose for which it was provided by the student. I could go on, but given the NYT’s excellent privacy project, I expected at least a minimal discussion of privacy issues in this article.
9
It's Glee for the visual-internet age, except for the data-privacy angle.
1
Schools are embracing a new technology that feeds/promotes childhood addiction to instant entertainment, addiction to fame, self infatuation and the constant need to be broadcasting themselves. All to the detriment of actual learning. All to the detriment of real socialization. Yet we celebrate it because it’s not instagram or YouTube, and it doesn’t promote bullying (for now) - wow what a low bar.
I remember walking into history class as a high schooler and seeing my first ‘smartboard.’ Everyone gathered round and was gushing over it. I thought what’s this thing going to teach me about the Marshall plan or the Manhattan project? The answer was absolutely nothing. But it grabbed people’s attention (distracted) for half a moment so it was embraced (like tiktok).
It’s a vicious cycle that has eroded our collective attention span to almost none at all.
5
It's sad that schools are supporting this. While I'm sure some students might benefit -- like learning how to market themselves or future businesses -- for the majority, this is a time-waster and distraction from more important matters. Our teens are vying to be "popular" by doing silly dances while other countries eat our lunch in math, science, and even English reading and writing.
10
What do you want to be when you grow up? "Famous" is the answer. I trust the quantity will increase the quality and ingenuity.
You naysayers, wake up. Kids are going to have social media and learn differently than we old folks did. The entire high school experience has been highjacked by a college admission race, one that no one wins. My oldest daughter moved from a highly competitive prep school (where she excelled academically and was miserable) to our local public high school this year. Her cheer coach (yup. She does that meaningless, not resume building activity too)makes these videos with the team all the time. The kids adore and respect her because she reaches them on their level. She understands their world a little better than the generation who grew up without social media. News flash, social media is here to stay, so learn to play.
3
According to this article, one of the great things about this app is that it seems to help kids sidestep bullying. And then we get examples to prove it: of kids gleefully participating in memes that mock the freshman class "for being cringey" and ones that riff off the supposedly uproariously improbably idea that a boy might love another boy. The majority of commenters are grumping about newfangled technology taking away from real learning in school, on the basis of a profile of an *after-school club*. Meanwhile, everyone seems to be ignoring the lone commenter who rightly points out that CHINA controls this app and all the data you send to it, which ought to be of far more concern. The opportunities missed here are staggering -- to really examine what happens when eager teenagers embrace viral apps whose parent companies we ought not simply trust (remember the Russian facial recognition data-gathering?); when schools allow video technology to repackage as adorable the forms of age- or sexual-orientation-based bullying that have plagued high schools forever; when all of us allow "but it's fun!" to replace any kind of healthy skepticism about who is profiting over our online existences.
6
I’m glad school is fun for all of you students that would rather play with their phones instead of trying to learn something.
If you spend 16 hours per week on this app, then you must not be studying.
I don’t want to hear from you after you graduate that you can find a job because you didn’t learn anything in school.
7
So much emphasis is placed on reward, painless entertainment and pleasure, students tend to feel they do not need to do any work if it is "boring." Like reading a toneless textbook that weighs twelve pounds, for example. So much demand has been put on teachers to be virtual Comedy Store performers: "If you made learning Funnnnnnn."
I invite anyone to come and try invoking "rewarding intellectual involvement" in the current atmosphere of computer contracts, ID cards, bathroom visit documentation, photo order forms, action plans, accreditation reports, department goals; assembly days on bullying, sexual harassment, and domestic violence; earthquake, fire, mudslide, and gunman drills; sports road trips, field trips, endless faculty meetings, minute pedagogical tasks, LORs for seniors—all this off the clock—multitudinous "trainings,"untrainings, retrainings, creation of job training lessons for the local economy integrated into your subject, walk-throughs, observations of colleagues while they are teaching job training, standardized tests and scripts from google, Khan Academy, Pearson Ed, and The College Board; endless multi-tiered evaluations, pull-outs, department meetings attended remotely from classrooms until 5PM, workshops.
I'm sure I'm leaving much out—chronicling behavior. That takes time. Grading papers.
Yes. Thank you.
What we really need now are workshops on attention span and impulse control. Off to create and hawk one.
6
Most sophomores and juniors took the PSAT on Wednesday morning.
The test questions became major Tik Tok themes starting at noon on Wednesday and lasted until Friday.
It was a harmless and amusing way to blow off steam, and provided a rare unity among teenagers.
TikTok is a Chinese company. Should you be giving China your birthdate, phone number, and control of your photo/videos and social interests?
It’s concerning that articles about privacy discuss the control one has over sharing information with other users. While that is an issue (but is pretty well taken care of in user controls) it is the app owners we should be concerned with! China and Facebook are not benevolent entities. What will China do with your info in the future? You better not visit a Chinese controlled city and commit any misdemeanor! Your TikTok uploads will be used to determine your conviction. We don’t know yet what China will be capable of in the future but they greatly outnumber Americans and are also highly technologically advanced.
And then Facebook - they’ll sell anything for profit.
It not the users of the apps that you need the most protection from, it’s the owners of the apps, and their associates’ associates and anyone else they sell your data to!
4
The comments are interesting. It does seem that TikTok is a meretricious, dumbed-down app, but evidently it has its apologists. Kind of like our president.
At sixteen hours a week, TikTok appears to have replaced television, but TV was replaced before there was TikTok. Students are good at wasting time, no matter the generation, but it has been a battle to get them to perform socially redeeming tasks.
We could just accept TikTok as de rigueur. The "TikTok clubs" are curious; they are clubs of, uh, exactly what? They look to be drama clubs in the age of the minimal attention span required for Twitter.
I guess when wasting time becomes so visible, as it is with TikTok, and is endorsed by faculty, it raises some eyebrows. As others write here, students are bonding with their electronic culture.
But maybe it's also time to fire up that Kindle app and read a good book. Or maybe make a TikTok video of it. You'd have to read the book first.
3
"The school’s principal, Melissa Gordon, declared a winner. It was a skit by three 16-year-old boys . . . about one boy falling in love with another boy, who picks his nose. The entire classroom screamed and cheered when the winner was announced. “I feel like it might go viral,” Benjamin said."
Its thinking like this that has made my decision to retire from teaching much easier than I ever anticipated.
5
“I think you just have to engage students in whatever they’re interested in,” said Ms. Gordon, the principal.
And, of course, never try to interest them in something other than the fad of the moment.
6
These will be our future politicians and dare I say president. “Hey let’s do a meme on that issue.” That day is coming.
1
The need to get likes is a horrible way to go through life. Never doing something just to do it - always doing it to see if someone likes it. Rather sad state of affairs.
5
So we had Vines; then we had Musical.ly - somewhere in there was YouNow - now TikTok [via Musical.ly]. Each driving down the attention span to 15 seconds and a minute can seem interminable
We have a popular apps that originate in communist China.
We have Instagram 'models' and youtube 'famous' that reward the vacuous and the lottery style of career development.
What can possibly go wrong when these folks elect a president some day.
Wait - Trump is our fault.
2
At this stage, TikTok looks like the real thing, kids are having fun and its group sharing. Yet I'm afraid that the forces of greed and self interest, so amplified in the digital age are already finding their ways to subvert this. For those who complain that children aren't working hard enough and are having too much fun on TikTok: chill. Where do you think creativity is born?
1
"Ask NOT what your App can do for you;
Ask what you should be doing with Apps"
"Google yourself" is not necessarily good advice. At least, if you're going to Google yourself, do it from a public computer.
All the stuff Google learns about you is attached to the Google cookie, a sort of serial number connected with your browser. Google makes a point of assuring us that this cookie is not "personally identifying information" like your name, address, birthdate, etc.
But once you've Googled yourself from your own computer, the Google cookie /is/ associated with your name and so on. (You might reply that you Google lots of people. But you're the only one who isn't famous.) After that, Google knows exactly who made those embarrassing search queries.
Google has already done such a great job infiltrating schools across the country.
Now comes the Chinese government! The Chinese government thanks you for using Tik Tok. Another platform to surveil.
2
A generation of self-centered narcissists. “Look at me everyone! Look at me! I’m the most interesting person in the world”!
1
Born in China and being a victim of its omnipresent censorship, I can hardly understand NYTimes not emphasizing the fact that TikTok is a product of a Chinese company which is subject to 100% control of the its government.
It may worth repeating here that the Chinese government not only has easy access to all the private data gathered by the app, but also pursues a strategy of aggressive propaganda overseas. Now with a tool of such popularity among the young in the US, what could possibly be more handy?
5
I thought students went to school to be educated. Have I missed something?
4
Left alone, TikTok would have its 15 minutes of fame and fade into the background naturally. But it’s when the mainstream media feels compelled to write and televise stories about it that it blows up to something even bigger. I don’t see anything here to be especially impressed with or horrified by. Yes, it’s another trend that perpetuates the obsession with fame, but giving the app a platform in The New York Times blows that problem up even worse.
2
The opening paragraph refers to how the videos incorporate music into them. Almost none of the music on the platform is authorized or licensed. Each child, each faculty member and school official who has the ability to control the use of the unauthorized music, without realizing it, is subjecting him or herself to liability for infringing the copyrights of the composers and the record company. This is no joke.
Copyright infringement is a strict liability tort. No intent or negligence need to proven to establish liability, just proof that the defendant had the ability to control the use of the copyrighted works.
See David C. Lowery’s posts of October 18 & 19, 2019 here: https://thetrichordist.com.
And this article in Billboard: https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/digital-and-mobile/8533271/nmpa-tiktok-congress-investigate-copyright which reports on the largest music publisher group in the US requesting Congress to investigate this wholesale theft.
The other comments about data mining are equally troubling.
2
Sounds a lot like putting soft drink machines in schools ... sweet, but ...
3
Your parents said watching too much TV, and seeing Elvis gyrate his hips was destroying youth. Now that a lot of people on here have become old, they are just repeating the endless cycle. "In my day", "kids these days".... Do you remember how it was to be a kid? No the world is not heading towards a downward spiral. In fact it seems younger people tend to know how to exist better in this world, while boomers are arguing over pointless tribal politics online with vitriol that has real world negative results.
1
Chik-fil-a continues to donate to organizations that teach that being gay is unhealthy and - Gasp! - sinful. Why a high school, in Florida or anywhere else, would choose to reward people with their particular brand of anti-gay messaging is beyond me.
4
Try posting anything critical of China — Hong Kong, Uighurs, South China Sea, mass surveillance — and you’ll quickly learn that Chinese authorities and censors are watching all. This is not a benign app by any stretch. It’s the leading edge of the PRC’s attempt.to control speech in the US. Kids won’t get it, but we need to tell them to delete it. And now.
5
The “hey, look at me!” trend is really snowballing. Wonder what that says about us. Seems like a lot of insecurity and narcissism.
1
The U.S. should require Bytedance to divest itself of TikToK US so that the Chinese government can't control what our kids are watching, nor extract our personal information.
4
"Teens love the app, and now it’s getting the stamp of approval with teacher-approved clubs. Did school just get ... fun?"
That's right, kids. Don't be fooled. Chess club, a/v club, sports, debate, theater, music... none of those other clubs/groups/activities that schools have sponsored for decades were ever meant for you to have fun.
4
I wonder how many students (or parents) who use TikTok understand that it's a felony to export content from this service? Their Terms of Service agreement clearly states that TikTok has developed this service using U.S. Government funds, and as such have submitted to: "U.S. Government Restricted Rights". These rights have nothing to do with embargoed countries; it means that they've taken development money from the Federal Government, and in exchange have submitted themselves and their users to criminal enforcement of the Federal export regulations. Essentially, the TikTok software has been weaponized under these rules.
According to the TikTok Terms of Service: "Exports. You agree that you will not export or re-export, directly or indirectly the Services and/or other information or materials provided by TikTok hereunder, to any country for which the United States or any other relevant jurisdiction requires any export license or other governmental approval at the time of export without first obtaining such license or approval."
Cite:
TikTok Terms of Service (U.S. Residents)
https://www.tiktok.com/legal/terms-of-use?lang=en#terms-us
2
Chinese data-mining and Chick-fil-A gift certificates. What teacher in their right mind would consider this appropriate for a sound education? Good grief!
6
TikTok, the sound a bomb makes before exploding and those students find out the Chinese have intimate personal data about them that can be resold or used as ransom.
1
If students have found something that they are passionate about that isn't harmful, it should be encouraged. By working together and making these TikToks, students are collaborating, and creating a high school club gives them a space to do so in a safe and monitored environment. The teachers have given the students guidelines for being productive during meeting times, information about how to be safe and Internet savvy, and cautions about how to treat others with respect. It seems like there’s no going backwards; young (and old) people rely on our phones and spend significant portions of time on them. Why not take this opportunity to foster a positive outlet and community for students?
8
After teaching high school for over 26 years, the biggest change I observed was the decreasing attention span of students, accelerated by social media.
Reading a textbook, taking notes, listening to a lecture...most students cannot handle those tasks for any length of time. Instead,they want to be entertained. The necessity of hard work for learning has been diluted, swept under the rug, even scorned.
Everything has to be “fun.”
I am all for engaging students and getting them excited about learning, and employing novel methods. But I seriously doubt that any difficult endeavor can be achieved through mostly “fun” apps. I am glad I am not teaching anymore, as I most likely would’ve been pressured by my administrators to embrace this latest, greatest app at the next tech conference.
29
Clearly, these educators haven't read the clear data on psychological problems including anxiety and depression associated with social media and specifically this type of behavior. And they're glorifying it.
Myself being an educator and seeing the problems first hand developed from Elementary Schools through High Schools, this is completely counter productive. College campuses, including mine, have a huge influx of students with issues associated with social media.
Stop. I would remove my child from that unhealthy environment.
14
TikTok- clever and fun- but so are all the other social media phone apps- there's an upside and a downside as with all things. "Look at me" apps overall are not helpful in the long run IMO.
15
Making short videos as a creative endeavor certainly has value in and of itself. However, it seems that the main point of so much of the material on apps like this one and other forms of social media is the desperate need for attention and approval in the form of "likes" or views or whatever measure is used on the platform. There is something inherently unhealthy about that. As the article also mentions, the use of AI algorithms to feed the user a continuous stream of suggestions of other material to consume can be quite insidious and a massive waste of productive time.
There's obviously no putting the social media genie back in the bottle. It's here to stay in one form or another. We should always be mindful of the impact that it has, though. And in this case in particular, we should remember that TikTok is a Chinese-owned platform.
19
My god, has everything got to be FUN?
As I observe it, yes.
17
Not all videos are fun. Some dog videos of “Last day on this earth” are very sad.
1
@Ph
Fun is over rated
Really interesting. A few thoughts, I would have liked to see how the app is being used (or not used) at schools that are not so well off/inner city schools/majority minority schools. I’m not anti tiktok/new media, I just worry when I see something like this being codified by students who already have so many advantages. Also,this app is owned by the Chinese, that is also worrying.
8
@Sharon M
The Chinese connection is interesting, for sure. It is not worrisome for me but I wonder how the whole issue of censorship on social media will play out with a foreign owned app. Facebook is under intense pressure and has responded to that to forestall threats to break it up. How would a Chinese app like TikTok react to such pressure? We cannot break it up.
3
@Sharon M I read the comments that express concern about the Chinese connection. Be honest, do you trust the US government or companies like Facebook or Google more? I don't.
This is simply bringing in the commodification of celebrity culture into the schools, and giving it a seal of approval.
Students should be making plays and performing them for each other, or in school drama departments.
As if what our children need is more time on screens!
Top Silicon Valley innovators won't let their children near the internet....they know the dangers.
25
@Concerned Mother
You are absolutely right. I taught theater in that milieu as a sideline to making my living as a performing artist.
Parents insisted - hallelujah - that their kids do summer and after-school theater programs. Many a techie kid took an entire summer to wake from the physical, social and emotional numbing of a life where the dancing pixels are reality and we creatures of flesh, blood and bile the illusion.
When I was new, some kids pleaded to create a supplementary video of one production. Big mistake. The kids on the side project fled to the 'safety' of dark-room-and-laptop. 90% - if that - of the time they spent was technical video production, basically programming, nothing using right-brain imagination or skills. They failed to learn their lines, which I had to cut to almost nothing.
Theater is the opposite of whatever TikTok is. It teaches us to be wholly present. To trust our authentic self, however inadequate we may fear ourselves to be. To connect with and learn to trust our scene partners. To share with castmates, a playwright and an audience a unique moment in time. To be honest. To be vulnerable, exposed, and courageous, with no backsies.
Remedy for a dying world.
13
This IS theatre. It might not be the MacBeth you performed in junior high in 1964, but it’s the same thing. Culture is an ever-evolving organism; in 50 years, people will be lamenting the days of TicToc, before AI took over. Time keeps on ticking ticking.......
2
What a lot of people don’t seem to understand is that just because it’s on a screen doesn’t make it bad, and it’s an easy way of getting children interested. A lot of the adults seem to think that they know what’s best for the children when they didn’t grow up with this so they couldn’t possibly know. Smh
1
Stop whining. Have some faith in the kids themselves.
They're engaged and excited about something? Great. They are working together and sharing? Terrific. They are learning about presenting, communicating, reaching audiences, music, art, video, marketing, and more? Fantastic.
We're you passionate and myopic about something in high School? For me it was playing the guitar. Sports? Reading? Chemistry? Cars?
Yes, as a long-time educator, I'm well aware of the dangers of bullying, privacy, and addiction. But I'm also aware that our mass-production, factory schools offer few opportunities for self-expression, creativity, and individualization - especially for the average, non-"gifted" kids like I was.
I greatly applaud the innovative educators who use new technologies that the KIDS embrace and guide their passions in meaningful and yes, even fun ways.
Today's TicToker may be tomorrow's Walt Disney, rocket scientist, brain surgeon or even "just" a well-rounded, happy contributor to our society.
28
@Mike
Stop being naive' The kids will fall into the usual divisions of success
Have you seen any of these videos?
2
A quick thank you to the authors of this article. Have just read about the suicidal teen rescued by a compassionate coach, I couldn’t help but feel a sense of joy, knowing there is a place (yes, in an app) for creative self expression that isn’t all bound up with perfectionism and can possibly be a tool for well intended educators. With innovative technology, being mindful of the pitfalls is part of the evaluating process, and so is open mindedness. These same youths are out in the streets fighting for the well being of our planet and fearful of being shot in school. I think there’s room here for more exploration. I enjoyed peeking into the more playful side for our youth. It doesn’t have to be all one or none. Thanks.
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16 hours a week making and watching videos. I don’t know, that seems like a lot of time to be doing something that might be entertaining but is of questionnable benefit in terms of personal enrichment value. Teenagers should be learning and experiencing as much as possible in that stage in their lives. Maybe 1-2 hours a week making cute videos a week is OK, and spend the rest of the time doing a variety of other activities. Read a book for fun. Volunteer somewhere. Do a sport. Learn a new craft. Learn how to cook. The problem with these videos is aren’t they really at the end of the day just another type of mindless popularity contest? All the kids mentioned that the goal seems to make the video a vital hit. Doesn’t that prove the point?
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@Dan 16 hours a week is a lot of time. Compare it to HS athletic teams, with 2 hour practices daily and a game. Both involve learning and improving skills, working together, providing entertainment for others. However, tik-tok involves the creative process, and learning to work together to create a product. Sure it is fun, but as one kid said,"This is a lot of work."
How can it be made available for kids without smart phones? Maybe Apple and Samsung could contribute older well functioning phones they take in trade to schools for after school activities.
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@Dan Kids have always done this, either by spending hours listening to music, watching TV or getting into trouble outside. Kids be kids, but it is concerning schools are promoting entertainment via Chinese AI capturing video and audio and location and personal IDs.
I applaud the faculty for stepping into the space the students are interested in and adding structure, creativity, and critical thinking. Analyzing a video takes some thought, making a true parody takes some real skill. The teacher posting physics videos gets it. Students will watch the video repeatedly. The teacher can only do it once in class. As for data collection, that ship has sailed. Now we need to make sure out kids understand what is happening so they aren’t taken in by it. And that means we involve ourselves in their social media use.
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I was a teacher. There have been a myriad of ways for teachers to post videos (like physics videos) instead of using an app. I used to post chemistry videos all the time, but not on a platform that encouraged “likes.”
Tik Tok is just another social media platform. Imaginative teachers have been doing imaginative things for a long time......it’s just that there was no “app” driving a reporter to publicize those efforts.
TikTok is just another step forward in the project to merge humanity with its networked infrastructure, weld us to our digital devices, make self esteem inseparable from audience feedback, trade task performance for theatrical performance, substitute instant gratification for persistence and diligence, make mistakes something to delete rather than learn from, and enforce the hierarchy of reputational awareness on individual exploration.
but other than that ... hey, if teachers are too unskilled to make intellectual involvement rewarding, then just put the kids in front of interactive video, and wait for the class bell to ring.
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Another Great Leap Backward. We need to stop rationalizing that we’ve lost an entire generation or more of kids to electronics addiction. I know how seductive it is. So are chocolate lava cake, Lebanese hash, red wine, and Led Zeppelin. Particularly in combination. But deadly, too, if they consume your life.
Unlike these more corporeal temptations, electronics addiction is especially insidious in how it rewires young brains. Any addiction, and not just the opiate variety, intrudes between you and the ones you love, and your long-term goals and pleasures.
Learning to find joy and peace in clarity, in the unmoderated and unmodified moment is the skill we need to teach. Art with pen, paper, dancing feet or flowing textiles; logic, discernment and the bright world of ideas instead of hooks and impulses: this is civilization and is the gift we owe our children.
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It could be said, according to my understanding of your concept of addiction, that I was addicted to performing folk music when I was a teenager. Yes, it was the sixties. I didn’t live in a large urban centre but folk music helped educate be beyond my relative cultural isolation. I was riveted when I first heard a Bob Dylan LP. I learned from him about Woody Guthrie and the folk music tradition, of the history and politics, about Pete Seeger and McCarthyism. And I learned about the folk traditions of my own province, Newfoundland, how the history of immigration from Ireland still lives in the music and dialects of my homeland.
It was the beginning of my education about the larger world outside my family and school and church. It caused disruption in my family because I was learning different perspectives on the world and it was beyond my patients’ control. They would have said I was “addicted”. But it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
Don’t be too quick to dismiss something you don’t know and understand. It could be unlocking whole new worlds to young and seeking minds.
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You were participating face-to-face in a corporeal art form, with music richly informed by roots of many cultures, tied to deep and profound themes: That’s civilization.
Helping a Chinese company get rich and intrude on the privacy of minors while taking up residence on their most private part (their phone); feeding the hook-hungry drives of adolescents who swipe right and left without pondering, and creating art rewarded by that splinter of participations, the Like - I won’t call it an audience, more of a fleeting acknowledgement by the dopamine system as it hurries to another hit —
Nope. Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie’s heart and genius are far from this plastic pastime that is to art what Pop Rocks are to cuisine. Folk music craves authenticity. This is commerce. Question the hype.
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@Bohemian Sarah
Times change. I remember eons ago when I was being told that rock n' roll was poisoning my brain.
Why are students worrying about entertaining audiences instead of focusing on learning? I just don't get it. India supposedly has more HONOR students then the US does TOTAL students. How are they going to compete in a growing competitive world?
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@PoorRichardNYC The won't, but government will provide for your children and will provide for your "adult" children while Chinese AI is perfected over our population.
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@PoorRichardNYC
THIS!!! So absolutely true.
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So as popular Tic Tok has become, my question is who's profiting off of the success of the app? I'm a Boomer and have yet to dive into the app to see content, but what I've read, much of the content by teens is based on music.
How is Tic Tok protecting themselves from the content using copyright protected music? That will be a big issue since much of the content's success is based on that.
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@Calvin While I don't know all the legal ins and outs, since Tik Tok is a Chinese company and China is not known for its robust protection of trademarks, intellectual property, etc. it's likely the company does not care about being sued.
I write this as a Chinese-American who consistently has difficulty finding subtitled non-Chinese films (which I have enjoyed) for my parents to watch in their native language. Sometimes I wonder if the lack of availability is due to lack of property protection.
On the other side, in US law, there are rules around "derivative" art works and what that means. Some derivation is legal.
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I’m pretty sure that the artist get the profits and tik tok gets the ad revenue.
I wonder if there is a correlation between Oregon's abysmal Common Core Math Scores statewide (Oregon ranked 49th in the latest national assessment of test scores) and increased use of iphones in school and social media obsession? Not to mention the well-documented jump in teen depression, anxiety, and suicide with the rise of social media platforms.
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It's more likely the poor funding of Oregon schools with large class sizes, few librarians and other special staff, and low salaries not attracting top educators.
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@Mike Franz There may be a correlation, but correlation does not prove cause and effect.
@Mike Franz Hm, good guess. Upon further study, other states also have smart phones. Guess we have to go back to the drawing board, darn!
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Just what we needed: another popular AI-driven app honing people’s existing biases, instead of challenging them with the new.
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Unsurprisingly, most of the Comments here are critical or at least concerning. I get that.
As a retired educator, TikTok seems to be yet one more indication of how youth are looking for something, almost anything, to enliven their learning at school -- which for decades has been far less than inspiring and engaging.
I'm not endorsing TikTok or any other social media -- just noting that we continue to live with an outmoded educational system, losing the immense potential of our young people. If we in the older generation can't make learning more engaging (not fun, but engaging!), then young people will have to find a way.
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@SGK
The notion that the current generation needs these ‘tools’ to learn and socialize - when every prior generation did without - is short-sited and infantilizing. The consequences of adopting this ‘tech’ far outweigh that half-moment you engage them with the ‘chemistry aids.’ Beyond pedagogical worthlessness, it replaces the genuine human interaction (even yes bullying) that occurs in schools and is critical to childhood development.
How could a tiktok-obsessed child possibly grow into a productive member of the workforce when they’re not required to focus on anything, complete tasks (except tiktok homework) and are constantly indulged / coddled, and celebrated for self-infatuated self-expression?
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Get them on their feet and interacting while moving. Use methods like Whole Brain teaching with primary grades to get them engaged physically with subjects, including math, and working actively and in a fun way with each other.
Speaking as a retired theater professional who participated in a successful education program along the way, one of the biggest problems with electronics addiction is that it shuts us off from our bodies, which abets depression. We are social animals, primates who need touch, warmth and interaction looking into each other’s eyes. Even if we don’t know we need it.
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My 13-year-old granddaughter and her friends love making memes. They do historical and literary enactments, with costumes and dialogue. They understand satire and irony. They are beginning to understand politics. They know a lot about the world that I don’t. They are all into singing, dancing (bharanatyam, anyone?), sports and drama. They vie with each other for top marks.
They all have smart phones and they all are fabulous. Now if only we can bequeath to them a planet that can support human life, they might have a brilliant future.
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For all the endless discussions and battles over education reform, why is no leader/candidate talking about banning cell phones from classrooms? I don't mean an unenforceable rule--there ARE ways to do this that work. That and a communal (1) breakfast and (2) study lab, (and maybe a school-wide end of the day clean-up?) and I'm thinking you'd boost test scores and decrease discipline issues faster than all the in-services and professional development hours I've had to endure. And another thing [grumble, grumble, grouch, grouch, grouch].
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@Schneb As an added side-benefit, that clean-up time at the end of the day might just keep those whippersnappers off my lawn!
As with everything else these days in this age of impulsivity, starting with the President on down, the implications will emerge before those involved are even aware of them. Once that happens, it will be a bit late to fix it, if it rolls out negatively, and that's certainly possible.
I taught theatre and we did plays. It took weeks of hard work to put a great play together. The kids learned discipline, team work, ego control,delayed gratification, how nuiance in the voice creates meaning, and how all that led to a great result. TicTok takes the hard work we did and compresses it into a product that is 15seconds long. All those character building elements are in existence for a nanosecond here. Ironically it reinforces impulsivity, immediate gratification, ego, and a competitiveness that is built to potentially increase isolation of unpopular kids. Im not saying it is all negative, but it has all the 'stuff' needed to take it in that direction.
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Education and Entertainment now have the same meaning, unfortunate for America.
I implemented Data Centers and Communications Centers in China for a year. I have also been a high school teacher. While I was a teacher, I was told by an administrator, " We need to entertain them" , them meaning the students. While in China, I had dozens of young Chinese workers just out of high school and college. They were voracious learners and intense workers.
The reality for our country is that we need people just as capable as the Chinese to keep up with them. No need to go into the details but at every level our competitors in the world are leaping ahead, while we are playing.
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Playing with technology is how youth access it — at first. When it becomes work, our kids view it as another adult-imposed requirement. I remember in the early 90s people thought you were just playing if you had a computer at home. Look what has emerged from that “play.”
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@Pani Korunova However, the "play" you refer to was *in addition* to a curriculum that taught the fundamentals, not instead of one. The after-school clubs that are the subject of the article are one thing, but changing the focus of actual classes from education to entertainment (or even "edutainment") is an extremely slippery slope.
One of the things I realized as I began my career, was that I and most of my classmates were right all along: we really *weren't* going to ever use most of what they were teaching us. However, that in and of itself was, for me, the most useful thing I got out of school. At least 90% of us spend most/all of our career working for someone else, and a lot of that entails doing what we're told whether or not we see the point - and certainly whether or not we find it entertaining. *That* is the useful life skill I got from all of those classes whose actual subject matter has never come up, to be able to continue slogging through something I find boring, for no other purpose than because I'm being told to do it (going from "passing the class" to "earning a paycheck" as the end goal of such drudgery).
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@Pani Korunova However, the "play" you refer to was *in addition* to a curriculum that taught the fundamentals, not instead of one. The after-school clubs that are the subject of the article are one thing, but changing the focus of actual classes from education to entertainment (or even "edutainment") is an extremely slippery slope.
One of the things I realized as I began my career, was that I and most of my classmates were right all along: we really *weren't* going to ever use most of what they were teaching us. However, that in and of itself was, for me, the most useful thing I got out of school. At least 90% of us spend most/all of our career working for someone else, and a lot of that entails doing what we're told whether or not we see the point - and certainly whether or not we find it entertaining. *That* is the useful life skill I got from all of those classes whose actual subject matter has never come up, to be able to continue slogging through something I find boring, for no other purpose than because I'm being told to do it (going from "passing the class" to "earning a paycheck" as the end goal of such drudgery).
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I'm not sure encouraging our young people to be on social media more is a wise thing. However, being a former high school teacher, I do know teachers look for various ways to get students to engage in learning, and if that means plugging into social media/tiktok, then that is what they'll do.
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My fourth grade teacher wanted to teach us how to focus on a task so she would announce she was leaving the class room and wanted us to read a chapter of the book or do math or something else we could do on our own; nobody was to talk for the entire period and then she would leave and stand outside the class and see if we could complete the task. First it was 15 minutes, then 20, then 30, then an hour and if we behaved and completed the task she said we could be trusted. We took that training and used it for exams, college, etc. today’s 4th grade kids probably have one tenth of our ability to focus on a single topic due to Tim Tok, social media and gaming and have all but given up reading and writing.
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@James I used to teach high school and today's young people have very short attention spans. I'm teaching college-level now and very few students will read the textbook. A colleague of mine who wrote the textbook for a certain content area went through a major revision last year. She told me it was so hard as she was being told to condense, condense, condense. When I got the new edition I was amazed at how small it was compared to the previous edition. We can't complain about it though as we are enabling it.
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There will be unintended consequences that will come to light far too late for anyone to do anything about it. Facebook was lauded in this same manner when it became popular. As a culture, we have become far too naive in terms of latching onto shiny new technologies. AI and facial recognition software will turn this platform into just another way to gather digital information on people. We cannot seem to learn our lesson about the necessity to consider potential consequences when we discover and adopt new technologies.
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@tom The fact that this is an app spread around the world by a Chinese company ALONE is should be enough to be wary of it. Don’t think for a nano-second that China does not have ulterior motives here. They have, shall we say, a “reputation” when it comes to technology, phones, computers, and the internet.
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As a 73 year old creative and inclusion minded community leader of mostly Gen Z and Millenials, I see so much opportunity in clubs like this. We can fully engage with technology while remaining aware of the social media pitfalls and protect them as well with a bit of diligence. Support and encourage them!
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If schools are approving of this technology, this is just another example of their cluelessness about privacy matters and emblematic of the degradation of education, which should be their primary goal.
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This is just another variation on the theme of today's headline story about Republican appeals on the net to the grievances of senior Facebook users. This app appeals to the egos of teens who want to be famous, whose only grievance may be that they are not "popular". It's just another proof that the nation's citizens are less concerned about thoughful considerations of the nation's and their own best civic and economic interests and more on what makes them "feel" better. We'll be a third-world nation sooner than I had originally thought.
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We are a third-world nation already. We’re living lives of quiet desperation compounded with an ill that never occurred to Thoreau: instead of living mindfully we watch everything we do wondering how it will play texted out on social media.
I wouldn’t trade my flower child youth, with all its anguish about Vietnam, for immortality if it had to be lived like these agonizingly self-conscious snarks glued to a five-inch screen, or the trampled souls of the unpopular.
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@vincentgaglione Well I think it appeals to kids that just want to do something fun, fame not so much.
Young people today are on the forefront of some the biggest social movements of our time. Climate change, gun control, and LGBT equality movements are being powered by these kids. Let’s put some faith in them before turning to cynicism.
1
All companies in China are government companies (any company that refuses to cooperate with the government is taken over or disbanded), so all information on TicTok is Chinese government information. And all profits go to the Chinese government, either directly or indirectly.
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Tiktok is a Chinese company. Schools have to be very careful with personal information. China is aggressively accumulating big data from around the world. Don't want to see teachers' and students' private information ended up in China.
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While this is a way to build health relationships between students via apps, my concern is TikTok is an overseas company which means all these information about kids from all countries are recorded and chronological organized in these servers. Students may not be aware of the risk that they are getting themselves into until they became adults.
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Cross reference the NYT’s recent article about University of Washington’s AI database built using pictures downloaded from Flickr without users’ knowledge or consent. Except for Illinois’ biometric privacy law, there is no law that prevents this here if the children are over 13 making the Childrens Online Privacy Protection Act inapplicable. Schools violate the federal student privacy law (FERPA), not the app maker. What a mess the schools who encourage this app’s use are potentially contributing to.
2