What a dynamic, forceful, diplomat Mike Pence is. Now send him to Ukraine to remediate things.
2
Turkey’s policy is to use ceasefires to advance their position. Forty five years ago they invaded The Republic of Cyprus. They used a ceasefire negotiated through the UN to advance their position on the island nation. They are still there, all but annexed one third to Turkey, commited ethnic cleansing by expelling the Greek Cypriots and importing colonizers from Turkey, vandalized churches and cemeteries, changed names of towns, and in short tried to erase millennia of Greek history in the area. World beware.
5
America is getting played, big time. Not Trump, because technically you can't get played if you don't care about what happens anyway.
Suspicious fact: Once again, something Trump does redounds to Russia's favor and hurts the USA.
Ironic fact 1: ISIS unleashed. Again.
Ironic fact 2: Iran gets a boost out of this whole episode. Ironic, and perverse, if Trump is supposed to be trying to contain Iran. Way to go, POTUS: you just made any "deal" you want to make with Iran harder.
3
The Kurds don't have a country. The ideal time to give them one was immediately after the invasion of Iraq when no one knew what would happen next, and each sect was fighting the others.
Israel was created to give Jews a home after many years of wandering and persecution. Why can't the same be done for the Kurds? Protected by the UN on all borders until it becomes stable. Everyone needs a home.
4
It’s not a ceasefire. Trump surrendered.
6
Look at history.
The Syrians have been waging one kind of fight or another (political, armed) against the Kurds for years, as has Turkey. What's in Northeast Syria, the base of the Kurdish population?
Oil.
Who is Erdogan meeting with next Tuesday?
Putin.
Who does Trump work for?
Not us. And not the U.S.
5
@Catherine F. Parker i think you need some education, syria with kurds attacked Turkey during 1990s. Ocalan, pkk leader was supported and aided by syria then greece , yes greeks supported terrorists. And then italy, russia, and then ocalan was caught in kenya!! Now you understand the complexity of this problem? These countries all supported terrorists because Turks live on a strategic land which they like to control or occupy. So i suggest, read more, and think, talk less. Cheers.
1
What I find inexplicably bizarre is that so much of what Trump does, most recently the shameful abandonment of the Kurds, plays directly into Russia’s hands and is exactly what Putin would want.
Where there’s smoke there’s fire and the Trump maladministration is a Californian wildfire when it comes to consistent, highly suspicious pro-Russia acts and omissions.
There must be a reason for this. I suspect Russia has information (‘kompromat’) that would destroy the Trump empire and/or unquestionably get him locked up.
In the meantime, the fact remains that 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is essentially the Russian embassy at present.
11
Donald Trump is a traitor. His supports own this.
The USA is exposing its evilness for the world to see. We don't even pretend anymore.
9
Mission accomplished. Now the Kurds can live in peace. Thank you, Vice President Pence for promoting peace not war.
57
Where exactly are the Kurds going to live in peace? This is a joke. The Kurds weren’t even part of this “negotiation”. This is a whole new kind of gaslighting.
437
@Southern Boy The Kurds have no place to go.
79
@Southern Boy The Region is in total chaos and Trump is behind it all.
177
It lasted less than a day.
The Keystone Cops do Middle East diplomacy.
2
Our foreign policy is in disarray. Pence stood with a straight face to announce a deal w Turkey. The Kurds, our ally, have been under attack by Turkey since Trump’s “Go ahead ,Turkey” phone call ! Kurds are being forced out of an area in Syria where they helped USA defeat ISIS. The eventuality that Turkey will occupy this Kurd homeland with Trump’s okay is a stain on the USA as a trusted ally. Trump was the arsonist; Pence and Pompeo are working for the arsonist, not the fire company as they pretended yesterday. We are disgraced at home and abroad. We are less respected and less safe.
2
As this crisis moves forward, let us not forget that it did not exist until Trump stuck his thumb in the pie. There is no way it will end well with one uninformed man making the policies in order to look like a hero. Kind of like someone drilling holes in the Hoover Dam and then hiring his own contractors to "save" it. There is nothing that will undo those who have already been killed, to re-imprison ISIS fighters who have been unleashed, or to turn the rubble into the homes and towns from which hundreds of Kurds have had to flee....and to where? WE, under Trump, have stolen their lives, and our nation, under Trump, will have no more compassion for them than we have shown for the refugees from Central and South America.
Maybe with our disregard for the planet that will eventually kill millions if not annihilate our species, evolution will eventually produce a humanoid who is ingrained with common sense, compassion and creativity. These 3 Cs seem to be evading us.
2
Classic fait accompli.
You actually believe the Turks?
Please, at the very least, before football games you Americans should stop the singing about "the home of the brave". The hypocrisy is nauseating.
History will not be kind to Trump, Pence & McConnell et al
2
I cannot read this article without weeping for my country, for our allies, for our standing in the world. The world order has shifted, and the United States is not the better for it.
Pence, Trump and Pompeo did nothing for peace in this meeting - or for advancing America's standing in the world. They simply gave away the store. We are now a client of rogue states. I pray for my grandchildren that they will have resilience to withstand the future that this inept and dishonorably Trump regime has wrought.
5
What a laughable "deal". The USA has just given Turkey complete carte blanche. At the same time the USA has completely abandoned the Kurds, who were not even part of talks about this "deal". This is not a deal, this is simple and complete surrender to Turkey.
2
Another result of this foul betrayal of the Kurds is that Erdogan —- who is an enemy of democracy —- was beginning to lose his hold on power in Turkey. His success in rolling the Americans and seizing a chunk of Syria will make him stronger than ever. Turkey was not so long ago a secular democracy. Sad.
2
What doesn’t seem to be discussed here is the history of Kurds in Turkey. They have been an ethnically-repressed minority in Turkey since its reboot after WWI with Ataturk, who instituted a massacre of epic proportions in the 1930s against Kurdish men, women and children. Their language and customs are chronically repressed in Turkey, it’s not true as some commenters claim that they are fully respected in Turkey. This is the background for the PKK’s existence, tragically, because of course while it’s wrong for them to kill innocents, it is an act of desperation because of powerlessness (terrorism is born in such conditions). I emphasize that I do not justify murder of any innocents, but seek to explain its cause.
Read Wikipedia’s “Kurds in Turkey” to get a context for why all of this is unfolding now.
1
@Some Guy: Turkey got a large “safe zone” in Syria along the Turkish border, which they will settle and control. Do you think Syria will have any say in it?
Yes, Erdogan got the Land.
Turkey is a true ally of the U.S. It's not called terrorist organizations involved in the killing, drug trafficking, kidnapping, and gun smuggling. America has made the right move not to lose its best ally.
2
If you think our policy in the M.E. is bad, it would have been much worse if we had continued Obama's policy there - or any Dems leadership. Kerry? HRC? They had no solutions - just continue to kick the can down the road and let others determine outcomes for our forces.
1
Trump announces a "Deal"? This is just a Turkish announcement. You need all parties around the table have real negotiations. Shouldn't the "master of the deal" know that? It is a typical Trump scenario: create a problem, solve part of it and shout victory.
This back track with Pence (not Trump) going to Turkey on their attack of our ally, the Kurds, was not a win for Donald Trump as he portrays it. He ruined the delicate balance that existed before he entered office and even during his early tenure, and he had to go crawling back to Erdogan after this vile leader of Turkey deliberately pursued the Kurds, which has always been his intention. He now is buddy buddy with Putin & Putin now has charge of the situation in the region, not the US. All to pull back 50 troops (who were not fighting but only advisors there anyway. I have noted other writers applauding this unconscionable action on the part of Trump and can only believe that they are far from the majority of Americans, and further that they are not interested in our foreign policy, but merely in a "war free" existence which sadly with so many weapons available and rogue players armed as we are, may now more than ever not always be possible. To me they are the naïve in our population and they are both Trump supporters and he is happy to oblige them to get re-elected.
For an unusually objective NYT article on Syria:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/world/middleeast/syria-trump-kurds-interpreter.html
The reporting acknowledges the US continuing intent for regime change in Syria, using the Kurds as weaponized tools to control a third of Syria, keeping the Syrian government from benefiting from its richest agricultural land and its oil fields.
"We’re going to use a permanent occupation in the northeast to force Bashar al-Assad to cut his own head off,"
and
"While the president promised withdrawal, Pentagon and State Department officials reassured Kurdish groups with promises to stay. Last year, the State Department, bowing to Turkish objections, quietly blocked a Kurdish effort to begin reconciliation talks with Damascus."
Trump, who was elected with a promise "to bring the troops home" has been kept from this action until Turkey took the action of "invading" Syria and Trump was able to tell the US troops it was time to get out...
The Establishment, its media, the Washington Foreign Policy Establishment, and the Military Industrial Complex are in a fury.
They intend US dominance everywhere, and are being thwarted by the president, who in this situation has spoken some very needed truths.
Trump may be crude and racist, but on Syria he is right.
I hope trump's base is watching closely. This sad situation reinforces the fact that his only priority is making himself rich and he'll sell out anyone that gets in his way.
If his base still sticks with him after this travesty and somehow he gets reelected, it'll be his base's turn (and unfortunately the rest of us) to experience the real trump. Healthcare, social security and the economy will be decimated. That might be the only thing that gets him out of office. Unfortunately, there probably won't be much to salvage when he's done with us.
1
This withdrawal armed groups (PYD,PKK,..) hostile to Turkey should have taken place long time ago before such a major military operation became necessary. There have been countless acts of terrorism targeting innocent civilians in Turkey by these groups, including the most recent mortar attacks against civilians by the PYD which killed 20 people including children near the Syrian border in Turkey and these atrocities did not receive any coverage in the biased western media. Since the Syrian goverment was unable to control these hostile armed groups within its territory which became a serious security threat to Turkey, Turkish government had a legitimate reason to defend its citizens by such a military operation. Lets hope that the PYD,PKK and other terror groups take this opportunity to clear the area and stop hostilities against Turkey. Efforts must be concentrated to rebuild Syria and to create a safe environment where the refugees can return to their homes.
2
I am not particularly impressed by an agreement only to give the Kurds an opportunity to surrender their positions and retreat for reasons untold.
Pence has accomplished nothing but an agreement to force US allies to surrender. Dictated by Erdogan.
What do we think about that?
However unlawful and unjustified the military offensive against the Kurds, once Turkey has achieved its primary goal of degrading and crippling the Kurds, it's immaterial whether it suspends its military operations in North Syria or not, specially when Trump's betrayal of the Kurds has forced the latter to embrace the security arm of the Assad regime.
"...amid reports that Mr. Erdogan had launched the invasion in part as a reaction to the letter."
That makes no sense, and is also overestimating American influence. Turkey invades to obtain strategic goals, not as reactionary way to get back on Trumps weird letter.
Get rid of DJT before he does further damage to theUSA. He uses the presidency for his personal gain - I wouldn't be surprised if he made a "deal" to host Turk cronies at one of his reports and/or has a secret deal with Putin. I hope the members of the G-7 will boycott it, by refusing to stay at his resort.
6
Putting the tooth paste back in the tube? Not going to happen .
2
Did Pompeo and Pence remove the 50 nuclear weapons we have in Turkey or leave them as a gift to Erdogan to play with?
8
What utter baloney. This is but another bit of political piffle that does absolutely nothing. Turkey will not stop anything as they will cite Kurdish "violations" of the cease-fire to justify continued attacks. Never mind that the Turkish forces in Syria are loosely controlled proxies.
This is but another Punch and Judy show to try to deceive the American public into thinking that the US has some moral standing and that we actually have influence.
Every bit of gravitas the nation used to enjoy was vaporized in a phone call to Trump where Erdogan told him what was going to happen and that Trump would have to "get over it".
8
He was strategically brilliant - Erdogan, that is.
In a week, he managed to persuade the US to upend all their efforts for the past 5 years, occupy Northern Syria, and weaken their enemies (the Kurds). As a bonus, he managed to minimise Turkish casualties by having the US force the Kurds to withdraw, remove "sanctions", have us legitimise their invasion, and get a loudmouth to propagandise that there is peace in Syria now.
Brilliant.
20
So let me get this straight: now we are bowing to Turkey?!
8
Trump has given Turkey part of Syria and set the slaughter of Kurds by approving the invasion and getting out of the way. It is a sad day for Syrian people who are Arabs as well as the Kurds. Nothing will now stop taking all of the Kurd lands in Syria and possible unless it is prevented, the Kurd lands in Iraq. Only the Russians can stop them. Once again, we have allowed the taking of foreign land from those who have lived for years. We have allowed the slaughter of an ethnic group of people, AND the UN like the League of Nations in the last century to do nothing against the invader.
Woe is the world, woe is the U.S.
5
One of Trump’s campaign promises was to pull our troops out of foreign countries with endless wars to which the Republicans cheered. He kept his promise and now they condemn the action. Go figure.
3
Our soldiers weren’t actually at war there; we were funding our allies to fight our war for us and just by our presence, keeping the peace.
9
Wow, so much winning it hurts. Deal masters one and all.
2
This is bizarre. Why would the Kurds agree to give up their territory? Why would the Syrian government? Pence has no power to negotiate for them. Unless there's something going on back stage, this is an exchange between the U.S. and Turkey only, while the Kurds will keep on fighting after the give days are over.
1
This is an exchange between Russia and Turkey. We are on the sidelines, pretending we are playing the game.
3
Well, this is what you get when you send so-called "men" from Kansas and Indiana. As Trump would say, "sad."
4
This episode of American craven deference to an aggressive dictator reminds me of another October 81 years ago, when callow democratic leaders caved in to an aggressive German dictator -- carving up a small country without allowing its leaders to attend the "negotiations." Those leaders are remembered in infamy. I suspect the same fate awaits ours.
4
not a cease-fire but a surrender. and an abdication and a betrayal of our troops. for benefit of Erdogan, Assad, Putin.
from our "tough guy" big hands leader.
nauseating or as the "tough guy" says, disgraceful.
7
I am not sure of the geopolítics of this move by Trump. Certainly abandoning the Kurds does not look good nor help the reputation of the US as reliable comrade in arms. But Turkey is a member of Nato and an ally. Relations with Turkey are important. Then again, why should the Kurds hold part of Syrian Territory? I think the US should concentrate on maintaining strong ties with two of the three big players in the Middle East: Israel and S Arabia, to counteract Iran’s hegemonial pretensions.
4
Why should the Kurds hold a part of Syria? The Kurds have been there for centuries. A persecuted ethnic minority. This action by Turkey continues the ruthless oppression of the Kurds and minorities and is a form of ethnic cleansing. Now fully supported by the Trump administration. It is disgraceful.
2
This "deal" screams "appeasement" and "Neville Chamberlin".
Pence's statement that this deal "ends the violence" echoes "peace in our time".
Giving away our ally's territory without consultation or consent for a meaningless promised 5 day ceasefire (what ceasefire?) may be the most inept foreign policy action we have taken since the invasion of Iraq.
10
Does it really matter, when they control the territory and are winning ridiculous concessions from the US?
2
Why would Trump capitulate to a micro power like Turkey? Who in America gains from this shameful surrender?
4
I'm interested in where the US delegation stayed on their way to Turkey. My guess is Scotland
8
The only solution to the ISIS problem would have been speedy trials and executions since the European states have refused to take back their own citizens who fought for ISIS. We should never have kept them in large camps as that is a recipe for breakout - speedy trials followed by execution - for lengthy imprisonment turn them over to tough jailers like the Egyptians or Assad.
5
Exactly!
1
Donald Trump, the twirling moose
Imagine a bull moose, wearing roller skates for the very first time, and attempting to pirouette.
That is Trump, demonstrating his foreign diplomacy finesse.
6
We are a nation of losers. Vietnam, Afghanistan and now Turkey.
Burn the flag day October 16 th
3
The full text of today's agreement states: Turkey and the US remain committed to protecting NATO territories and NATO populations against all threats with the solid understanding of "one for all and all for one".
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/full-text-turkey-statement-northeast-syria-191017191203481.html
This is a good outcome. I hope "one for all and all for one" understanding is more than lip service. It would mean Turkey no longer buys missiles and fighter jets from Russia. It would also mean the United States no longer supports and provides weapons to terrorists with links to the PKK.
Rebranding terrorists as liberal Kurdish allies was a joke. I am glad logic prevailed in the end.
3
Trump has been an American traitor to the Kurds. Pence and Pompeo are his silly Christian flunkeys. None of these corrupt morons have any plan. They have done nothing here or there for America. Trump has just handed the last six years of American military involvement in Syria to the Turks, to the Russians, to the Iranians and to Assad. Why did he do this? He did it on a frivolous whim, because he could.
5
Donald J. Trump has yet again sold out the United States of America. Only he and his ignorant gullible red state base believe this is a victory for our country. If a Democrat POTUS had capitulated to our enemies in a similar foreign policy blunder to betray our Syrian Kurds allies, you can bet they would be screaming for blood and it would be rightfully so.
Hypocrites!
2
Once combat has started you must deal with the facts on the ground, Otherwise you must change the facts on the ground and that would involve something like the the US bombing Turkish troops until you break them.
The winning side will not want to give up the ground they have gained without some use of force, If you are unwilling to use force, then you must accept the current state of combat and make the best deal you can, cut it will be a weak one.
1
It won't be surprising if this was their plan all along. I like what Not Romney said but like the rest of Republicans too little too late.
This is more of what the world gets when the Republican Senate & supporters look the other way just to get some of their self centered interests & agenda accomplished.
These are lives along with the rest you don't seem to care about. Republicans have you no conscience?
3
It’s about the timing. Romney will replace Trump as 2020 candidate after Trump’s impeachment and conviction.
But, much more importantly for Trump, the G7 summit will be held at his Florida resort.
3
France and Germany should boycott the meeting place. As should Britain though they are useless.
2
@Alex Cody Assuming he’s still President.
1
Let's throw kerosene on a conflagration and see if we can put it out and be heroes.
1
What does Syria say?
1
trump says this “deal” his careening clown car of an administration got, hastily put together after trump pulled the rug out from everyone (except our enemies), was ten years in the making. His hand puppet, Pence, claims “We got what we wanted...”
Rational people, experts in their fields, with deep knowledge and understanding of the situation, the players in that situation, and the history of the area, are less than giddy about what trump and his clowns have wrought. All trump has is his gut feelings.
That right there ought to be of major concern to every adult. It is for me.
3
What did the Kurds have to say about this? Being treated like children is not the answer
4
Worse. They are being treated like immigrant children at our southern border.
1
The shallowest of victories for the US and a major victory for Turkey, Russia and Iran.
The Art of the Deal sure didn't work for the Kurds, America's best ally against ISIS terrorism in the Middle East. Trump folded like a cheap suit when Turkey pressed him to betray the Kurds and US democratic principles, but he's not sufficiently intelligent to grasp what he has done.
Putin plays chess. He maneuvered Turkey masterfully. Trump plays checkers. He doesn't have a clue how to play world politics. Trump is a baby who every bully leader on the earth has taken a lollipop from.
3
Turkey said ‘‘we got what we wanted.’’
Capitulation by DJT and the betrayal of the Kurds. You know, the guys who effectively took care of ISIS. You remember ISIS don't you? It was in all the papers.
Endless wars? Like the Saudis needing 2000 American troops, right?
7
He also betrayed the US. As if the cult cares or notices.
4
Bin Laden bombed the World Trade Center largely because there were US troops in Saudi territory which is regarded as holy. Now ISIS is free and our troops return.
Get ready for another catastrophic event.
4
Today’s word is, I believe, “pusillanimous.”
1
@Robert. Good call ... and I thought you were making the word up because of its beginning inference.
1
Think of it more as an appropriate overtone.
2
I'm expecting Trump or maybe Mick Mulvaney will try to walk back this deal tomorrow,
1
@Southern Boy
What?
2
The Turkish army's combat experience consists of brutalizing unarmed civilians. Erdogan probably realized if his army had to go up against battle-hardened Kurds, he would probably have to explain very embarrassing casualty figures. I think that's the reason he agreed to any cessation of hostilities.
1
It’s not that. Why keep fighting if you can get what you want from dumb America without it. Although I’m pretty sure Turks like killing Kurds.
2
Non-NATO nation disperse a riot/demonstration = UN condemnation, sanctions, regime change.
NATO members invading a sovereign nation = cease fire agreement that solidify military gains.
No wonder so many countries jumped on the NATO bandwagon. If this invasion was by Iran the 6th Fleet would have leveled half of Tehran already.
3
@AmateurHistorian hellooo we have been invading foreign countries since 200 years, cuba, honduras, mexico, puerto rico, iraq, afganistan, sudan, syria, vnezulaa, vietnam, laos, cambodia, the list goes on.... yeah you are right. Nato countiries have permits lol :)
Turkey has no problems with Kurds . They are respected citizens of Turkey and hold several government posts including high level minister positions . There is a terrorists organization called PKK, which costed to more than 50.000 lives over the last 35 years. PYD or SGD or whatever you call it is just a change cloth version of PKK , with their insignia and emblems almost the same. Many members of PYD are ex members of PKK and they communicate with each other like the right and left hemispheres of a brain. Just in the last 10 days of fighting PYD bombed civilian targets in Turkey killing 15 civilians most women and children . No democratic country including Turkey can tolerate such an vicious organization on its borders . In 2016 Turkish Armed Forces fought against ISIS/DAESH in operation Europhrates Shield losing over 100 servicemen and uprooting this terror organization from Turkish borders. Turkey also offered several times to the USA to go deep into Syrian soil to eradicate DAESH/ISIS . Instead USA choose to cooperate with YPG /SDG against ISIS /DAESH. To blame Turkey for removing SGD /PYD from its borders in baseless . Turkey stated several times in a consistent manner that it wanted a democratic unified Syria where people from all ethnic backgrounds and faiths would prosper in safety, security and dignity. Unfortunately, the calls of Turkey fell on deaf ears.
5
@Barak - the Kurds have been a repressed minority in Turkey for most of the 20th century, and are increasingly so in the 21st. Their language and customs have been chronically repressed. They are victims of cultural cleansing, and have been the target of massacres in the 1930s (which many believe are the cause of the PKK). Read the Wikipedia article “Kurds in Turkey” to get a context with reference to your whitewashing Turkish treatment of Kurds.
Why am I thinking about Neville Chamberlain's "peace in our time" when Britain sold out Czechoslovakia to Hitler?
3
so its Peace in our time....thank you neville chamber-pence
3
MAGA Make America Grovel Again
5
This is like Munich.
2
one of them is Turkey's dummy and the second one is USA's dummy, got save us, and two of them call their dummy boss Trump and they told the dummy five-day cease-fire, ASSAD alive and well, Turkey and Russia are the new land lords, ISIS is alive and ready to kill, who they are going to kill, US, than Trump will say oh we win and destroy ISIS, the whole thing is who is on the first base, Trump is first and second and third bass and running to home and hopefully will be out there for our sake
Pence gets the Neville Chamberlain award for appeasement.
4
how can they leave if it's a safe zone? pathetic journalism
This is like Trump declaring victory with Kim Jong-un. North Korea still has nuclear capability and is progressing in missiles technology, but Trump claims he gets love letters from Kim, beautiful letters, all the while Kim ignores US ineffective diplomacy.
Soon Trump will be saying he gets love letters from Erdogan and Khamenei. No need to mention Putin. Putin already blows him kisses.
2
Let's just call this "cease fire" what it is. Turkey has agreed to not fire on the Kurds for 120 hours and if the Kurds have not grabbed what few belongings they can carry and are not gone within that time frame then let the executions resume.
I thought nothing could turn my stomach more then Trump's behavior in Helsinki but his rant today from an Air Force base proclaiming that he had personally achieved something of a major peace agreement in the Middle East region, including the prevention of "millions of people from getting killed" and suggesting the Kurds were very happy...excuse me as I throw up now.
9
The Times says, "Since 2012, Kurdish forces had harnessed the chaos of the Syrian civil war to carve out an autonomous region along the border with Turkey, free of Syrian government control."
Sometimes euphemism is so obvious it undermines the goal of using it. This soft-pedaling of illegal behavior is the opposite of how the Times talked about ethnic Russian Ukrainians seeking autonomy in eastern Ukraine with Russian help, to protect themselves from the hostile revolutionaries in Kiev and anti-Russian neonazi militants in control of the armed forces.
Using the language of that time, this story should read, "The separatist Kurds took advantage of the civil war to seize Syrian territory with help from the USA, which was holding territory hostage in violation of international law for leverage in dictating when and how the war will end."
Now the Kurds have run to the Syrian "regime" (more word play) and Russia for protection, leaving the USA without any leverage. The Kurds will do what their new protectors tell them to do during the Turkish incursion; I don't know what Mr. Pence expects to extract from them to help his boss.
I know it's sacrilege to say so here, but maybe Russia will do a better job of bringing the war to an end and getting a workable deal for the Kurds, instead of feeding their delusions before abandoning them
2
Yeah, sure, Nick. Always rely on the kindness of KGB colonels out of East Berlin.
@Robert : Kindness and sentiment generally have no constructive part to play when it comes to national interests. The U.S. was always going to walk away from the Kurds eventually. It has no long-term stake in them getting their own state and in protecting them forever. Turkey just came for them before Syria did, backed by Russia, and President Trump just moved up the timetable. It was always a futile delusion.
Syria is in Russia's back yard, and Putin is highly motivated to end a dangerous and disruptive war that the USA has been deliberately prolonging for its own ends. Many foreign jihadis who have flocked to Syria cause problems in Russia as well. I think there's a better chance of peace and reconciliation coming to Syria with Putin as broker than anyone else.
Agree but Kurds must be protected.
So Turkey gets to keep all of the Syrian land it has seized, and demands that all Kurds disarm within 120 hours, and the Kurds get to live? That's a win for Pence? What was won. In four days, the Turkish Army will renew the assault and take more land. We have been driven out of Syria with our tails between our legs by a second rate military power, and given our honor and world prestige away for nothing. Trump has reduced us to a second tier power in the world. We will pay dearly for this betrayal.
2
We should pay dearly for we voted Trump and the Republicans. Karma prevails.
Is it unusual for a vice president to independently broker a deal with a foreign leader? And, why did they not figure this out before American troops were withdrawn? Are they so incompetent that they did not realize the consequences?
2
Pastor Pence, Honest Don's trusty sidekick, goes hat in hand to Turkey to beg the Turkish dictator for a few crumbs -- and the dictator graciously assents. Thanks to Trump, the Kurds still lose their land, hundreds of dead victims don't come back to life, and refugees still lose their homes. This is what the Kurds get for fighting ISIS on the ground, village by village, while our guys did the less dangerous work. Yes, Our Great President, this truly is "a great day for civilization"!
3
This is why I say release all ISIS fighters and then leave the Middle East to the Arabs, Iran, and Russia. Israel can fend for itself. They have nukes and are as protected as North Korea who have them as well. And 50
nukes are on Turkish soil.
1
“This seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors,” said Aaron Stein, author of “Turkey’s New Foreign Policy,” and director of the Middle East program at the Foreign Policy Research Institute. “It’s all based on the fictional notion that the U.S. has a say in a place where we withdrew our soldiers.”
This is a formal acceptance by the US that we have aided, abetted, trained and used a terrorist organization, PKK, to the point of providing them with a new make up (rebranding,as described by General Raymond Thomas, the commander of the United States Special Operations Command), as a "democratic experiment", pulling the wool before the already beady euro eyes.
As Mr Stein wants to prepare a cover and excuse for new terrorist attacks on Turkey, blaming independence of the terrorist PKK tools. However, the cat is out of the bag, red-listed terrorist and Trump's phone buddy, is formally admitted to be on our beckon call,we accepted that and we have to live with the consequences, hoping against hope that these thugs will not attempt to break our promise to a real ally. Otherwise, it will be October 9th all over again.
I’m so sick at heart that I can barely stand it. What we just did to the Kurds really has no precedent unless you lump it in with our crimes against American Indians during the 18th and 19th centuries.
Turkic tribes have practiced ethnic cleansing since they arrived there two thousand years ago. Turkic cruelty is legendary. Both are precisely what‘s in store for the Kurds. Having been useful pawns in our ISIS military campaigns they will now be sacrificed, discarded.
In addition to investments that renders Trump incapable of separating personal interests from national and international a psychological aspect is behind it: he is deceitful and dishonest in his dealings with others. He actually revels in it, considers it a mark of superiority. After he betrays his mark he takes it a step further and blames his victims for his treachery by claiming they, not he, are in the wrong. They transgressed against him. He slanders them, lies about their mutual history while debunking any notion that he owes them anything. They had it coming. They deserved it. He’s doing it now with the Kurds.
He does this to muddy crystal clear waters because such clarity reveals in starkest terms the breadth and depth of his inhumanity, depravity, cowardice and moral turpitude.
Alas, now he is us.because he is President of the United States. He acts in our names. We are indelibly stained.
McConnell’s Senate could remove him at a stroke. But it merely whines and complains while sitting on its hands.
2
American troops on the ground were never the main support the Kurds wanted or had. Trump could have said if the Turks go near American ground troops they will be wiped out by an air assault. Instead he wimped out. Sad.
1
He didn’t wimp. This was his plan to ally with Russia and Turkey. Russia lucky to have their ally as a NATO member.
There will soon be a shooting war between Turkey, our NATO ally, and Russian-backed Syrian government troops. It's going to be over the land Turkey just took. When Russian bombers strike Turkish troops, where will NATO be?
1
@Tim -
Turkey, although nominally and notionally part of N.A.T.O. is no ally.
It is also economically weak. That means it’s militarily weak as well, with a further complication that Erdogan recently purged his officer corps.
Erdogan’s authoritarian regime is as corrupt as Trump’s, if not more. Within Turkey itself, away from pro-government cronies both he and it are despised. Were he and it to receive a strong pushback it would be forced to leave. But, in Trump, it has both a partner in crime and willing executioner.
1
Nominally and notionally :-)
Second largest standing army in NATO.
@Steve Singer when was nato ally to turkey? For one time, wnen did france, germany supported turkey over pkk terrorists which european union declared terrorist group. ? Never. They actually supplied weapons to pkk. They used Turks against the soviets, that is all. Never once sided with Turks. So lets get over this none sense about allies.
1
Kurds Given Five Days To Leave Their Homes Or Face Death
A proper headline. And another betrayal by Trump.
3
A question for the reporters: are Kurdish civilians being required to leave under this agreement? Did we just acquiesce to ethnic cleansing?
@Christopher Hoffman no, no kurdsh civilian leaves the area, only ypg, pkk men with weapons leave the area, that is all. Dont trust me or the media here, read it and analyze it.
1
Knowing Erdogan he made the cease-fire retroactive to 5-days ago.
Let me get this straight.
Trump creates a problem. Then does something to try to deal with the consequences as the situation spins out of control.
Now we are supposed to applaud him!?
I’m tiring of this charade.
3
So, does "we got what we want" include handing the Middle East Putin, Mr Pence?
This is the Sudetenland and "Peace in our Time".
If he's still around by next summer, it might be time to restock those old fall-out shelters.
Total sell out.
Looks like this Turkey didn’t have to wait until Thanksgiving to get pardoned by Trump!
Members of the GOP, republicans, and Trump supporters in general: What Trump did to our Kurdish allies is consistent with what he has done and will do to anyone who has allied themselves with him. It is only a matter of time before he does the same to you.
3
The NYT tells us today, "the Pentagon will have to disassemble combat bases and other infrastructure that were built to stay."
That's not true.
Hesco barriers are oversize sandbags, set in place and filled with equipment to be faster and stronger. But they are just sandbagging.
"rudimentary structures and all-weather tents" inside those sandbags are not hard to leave. Just close the laptops, climb in the vehicles, and leave. There is nothing there we can't just walk away from. As we are.
The people inside our system of Forever Wars did not intend to leave. It isn't that they can't. They just wouldn't. They dragged their feet, and just wouldn't move. Once events over ran their recalcitrance, they had to bargain for a grand five days in which to move. They could move, they just did not want to move, and wouldn't even if told.
Turkey is giving a five day pause to do what could have been done before, what should have been done before.
This is fine. The US plan for Syria made no sense and had no hope.
There were ways we could have helped the Kurds. That has been true for thirty years, since we started the no-fly zones over them in Iraq to protect them from Saddam and ensure a semi-independence. We never carried through.
What we've been doing now hasn't helped them, it has dumped them in the deep end, of divisions of Syria designed to ensure long term US presence in Syria.
The US does not belong in Syria at all, much less an assured long term stay.
3
I hope Turkey and the Kurds understand that this is not an American decision, this is a Trump decision. When the reporter asks the man how he feels about the "American" decision he and all journalists need to say Trump's decision(s). Thank you.
5
@Valerie B Jennings
Too easy.
This is a democracy. So "we the people" are responsible - whether we decided to vote, or stay home.
3
Bravo; They are pround to announce that they have closed the stable door after they let the horse run away.
But of course, not that they will get the horse back!
Unless Erdogan gets exactly what he wants, there will be no real stop to this Turkish invasion.
Another Great Deal.
The World looks with awe to such fantastic accomplishment;
Indeed the US has never before looked so immensely powerfull.
Putin , Xi Jinping and Little Rocket man are trembling with fear, waiting for the next "Fire and Fury" tweet
5
Apparently, you didnt even bother to read the article. There is no cease fire at all. Want to see a funny comment? Start with your own.
Sarcasm. Just one word to Google and you will be enlightened.
Well done, Mr President! Barely a week after the media declared that the pullout couldn't help but lead to a catastrophic tinderbox of violence, there's a cease-fire.
And the president's critics are left grasping at straws - "but, our credibility, our influence!"..."it's all smoke and mirrors!".."Putin likes it!". Just check out the comments for a good laugh.
5
@Max
Please read the comments yourself, you might get an idea of the real horror of what your president just unleashed, twice in two weeks.
1
The US delegation used the term ‘cease fire,’ which the Turks later rejected. And yes, the Administration has blood on its hands
1
@Max
Uh ... how does empowering Russia, Iran and Turkey all while betraying the Kurds NOT lead to a "catastrophic tinderbox of violence", more concretely ... ?
You think the Kurds and Syria will accept that Turkey now occupies there territory?
They weren't even included in the "negotiations" here.
People are dying as we speak. This is not a time to laugh.
1
First, we gift Syria to Putin, then we try to broker a cease-fire...so that that the Russians are safe?
7
And what exactly did Turkey ‘get’?
That is more than disturbing
3
So Trump will allow Turkey to "occupy' another country, without a shot being fired. This is turning out to be like the "Munich Pact" where Chamberlain handed over Czechoslovakia to Germany in back WII and we all know there rest of the story ....What's next for Erdogan? Cyprus? Greece? Very worrisome.
8
@George
Turkey’s invasion into Syria is not up to the US, it is between Syria and Turkey. Syria is a sovereign country.
So Trump gets a "diplomatic victory" and Erdogan's "skilled leadership" gets him "what we wanted". Now we wait to see who gets killed.
2
There was no cease fire in the agreement and the Erdogan got the land! Unbelievable and outrageous! What country are we living in again, Banana Republic?
19
@brenda " Erdogan got the land"! Did you read the article?
1
‘Let’s work out a good deal!’ What a cast of fools. Turkey (and Iran) know weakness when they see it. For someone who purports to live in a transactional world, Trump is way out of his depth.
11
Who gave Trump the right to negotiate such a ceasefire?
The Kurds? Did Trump get their approval? They are our apparent allies, so they get to dictate what we can and cannot do.
The Pentagon? They are in charge of our country’s foreign policy. Did they agree?
How dare Trump pull out our troops and negotiate ceasefires without their explicit approval.
10
Oh my haven’t you noticed? The Pentagon was in charge of foreign policy along with State Dept. and others. But no longer; Putin is in charge. Unlike the former bunglers he is capable.., though obviously a security threat.
I think if we surrender he will be kind and merciful. He is less sadistic than Trump.
If You know the Turkish political scene well , Which I know, I can only say that This is a mirror image of Two incompetent president and their cabinets members self adulation but nothing else.
Trump and Erdogan knew extremely well , the only winner here Putin indirectly Assad.
Now Trump sees the reality which infuriated everybody at domestic US politics.
Now Erdogan sees , how can he steer this operation without causing major hot conflict Syrian and Russian army ( which is inevitable)
So both team is thumping their chest as if they succeed something.
You can sell this who appreciates those letter you wrote it.
1
The US is really powerless to do much in that region anymore. Russia wants Turkey in its sphere of influence and to sell them the weapons that NATO no longer will, but let's be clear. Putin is calling all the shots here.
3
Perhaps I’m missing something, but I just don’t see how this is a good deal. Where are the Kurds going to go now that we have given northern Syria to Turkey? If this was the goal, then why didn’t DJT do this in the first place?
4
@Bhb Kurds will go to southern Syria and stop threatening Turkey; so simple!
1
Trump, who needlessly caused hundreds of deaths among our staunchest allies because he was too weak to say "no" to Erdogan, is today claiming that he is saving millions of lives because of a five-day cease-fire. There is no boundary to Trump's obsenity.
As for Turkey, of course it has accepted a cease-fire: its offensive is facing furious and successful opposition by the Kurds and it is too scared and weak to fight the Russians who just showed up.
2
The current White House occupant humanely halted an Iran bombing raid because six persons of a country he considers an enemy were at risk of being killed. However, he's perfectly OK with green lighting the murder of hundreds (so far) of betrayed and abandoned allies by a dictator he admires and would love to emulate, if not for that pesky Constitution.
5
Russia and the US agree?
Or is is more accurate to say: Putin and Trump have come to a mutually beneficial arrangement?
4
There’s no story you wouldn’t spin against Trump in an attempt to make him look as bad as possible. Here a deal got done, a pretty major one, but not only is the story buried so deep few would find it, you’re also desperately trying to present it in the worst possible light.
3
@Eugene: Actually, Eugene, this story needs no help in presenting itself in the "worst possible light".
13
Mad cow disease begins with such thinking disorders.,,,, Benny Crsne
1
At this point Erdogan's word is as good as a forged Turkish lira. The only saps who believe him are Trump, Pence and Pompeo.
8
And 60 million members of Trump’s racist cult.
ALL of this was scripted and coordinated in advance by Trump and Erdogan. ALL of it. Don't be fooled.
So, ultimately, Erdogan gets what he wanted -- control of a significant chunk of territory inside Syria along the border with Turkey. And, Putin gets what he wanted -- the opportunity to bolster Assad while at the same time cozying up to Erdogan. And, Trump can pretend he brokered some kind of peace, despite having triggered everything to begin with.
The big losers are the Kurds, deserted by the United States, despite their being solid allies for the last decade plus; the people of Syria, who now will suffer even more at the hands of a strengthened Assad; and the United States, which has demonstrated that no one in the world can or should any longer trust.
November 2020 can't come soon enough. Literally.
9
trump's impact on the global balance of power is like throwing a brick through the window of the international space station.
2
Fitting justice would be for us to get our nukes out of turkey, eject turkey from Nato, and leave turkey to the fate of the Russian wolves. I, for one, wouldn't cry for turkey. I know Putin would then move on Syria and then finally stability in the region as Russia would then be the night-watchman.
3
Perfectly well stated.
2
This is great news for 10 million Syrian refugees who didn't have any thing to do with this war of expansion. now they can return back to safe zone in Syria.
3
They just picked up 3000 sq. mile of land, pushed the Kurds out, killed many, pushed the USA out and hooked up with Assad and Putin. Now they get to have economic help. Aha, the art of the deal.
2
@ Richard Head
Yes, here comes economic aid for our “ally” Turkey. Congress needs to make certain they don’t get a penny.
I am so pleased "we got what we wanted". Personally, I did not want Turkey to invade another country and kill it's people. I do not want them to be given permission to remain in that country. If they want a neutral zone, put it on their own side of the border.
3
@ExPatMX Turkey didn't "invade" a country and killed it's people. FYI, Turkey is on war against terror and kills terrorists.
2
My news feed is polling if "tone" of Trump's letter to Erdogan was appropriate, as if the content were somehow inoffensive.
The content of the letter essentially told Erdogan to do what we were telling him not to do in the same letter. If Erdogan had any doubts about what he was doing, the letter left him no choice.
There will be more like Trump in the future
To send a clear message, Trump must face the firing squad.
12
@New World
You know, I wish I thought that you were being outrageous and overreacting. I really do. But I don't.
1
So rather than take care of this situation which we caused when moronic President W toppled Saddam, citing false claims that Iraq had a hand in 9/11 and possessed WMD's, we are letting the Turks, who are allied with Iran, do it.
What could possibly go wrong?
4
The US now has zero, zero, say in what happens in Syria. Lost all leverage and all trust.
And that's even before Erdogan starts putting pressure on the personnel manning the US nuclear weapons in Turkey. I wonder what would stop him from just seizing them. The US force protecting them cannot be that large.
Sad, sad days.
3
Uh ... WHO exactly stopped firing here?
Not the Kurds, obviously, as they're fighting for their lives.
Not Syria and Russia, obviously, as they want to get Turkey out, and are happy to take over from the pro-US Kurds.
And certainly not ISIS, who strongly benefit from the chaos.
Conclusion: since when is there more fighting during a "cease-fire" than during the previous months and years of US peace-keeping on the border ... ?
2
This using of the State Department and VP as cut out for Trump's desires sure is a treacherous path for democracy and diplomacy. We know what Erdogan gets - what is Trump's prize?
The Kurds are being treated like the Russians and SYRIAN regime treated the other Syrian communities in Western Syria.
They have an option to leave their major population centers or stay and be attacked by land or air again all without the support of a foreign power.
Will the Turks also provide those same buses we saw two years ago?
I'm sorry but this sounds a lot like one hand clapping to me...
1
I have read some of popular commets at this news. And i have some questions about them. I just wondering if Indian-americans at somewhere may have population more then the other american ethnic groups and then they would claim that they have right to govern that place, would you support them? İ can't understand those people who have very serious thoughts about people who live thousands miles from them. Did you just glance at Iraq. What happend there After war? Kurds have outonomy there - and its not my bussines to says something about it but the powerful countries playing game with middle east. I saw everytime a map which Kurds have their own country including part of Turkey. I think more blood will be shed if some countries like US dont stop to give them gun and you would not carry just posting some thoughts and go to coffehouse or restourant next day after it. Some of you should ask themselves what are we doing there. Those ideas which you claim to being here have no base for people who live in middle east and those are just politics for them, not necessity.
8
@Emre Bravo!
Once again:
A crisis fully created and manufactured by Trump.
Now they can claim: amazing deal! Solved by Trump!
Look, the Kurds who tragically died are still dead. Our bases and equipment are still in enemy hands.
And the U.S. bombing our own abandoned military bases is still the most apt metaphor for the Trump presidency yet.
7
A great day for civilization?
Amazing
First - any bets on how long a cease fire will hold?
Wait. Wait. A cease fire is not actually a part of the “deal.” It’s a “pause” in operations.
The Kurds are losing everything.
The USA has lost its honor.
The USA
This is a tragedy for the USA and the Kurds.
If the USA isn’t getting something out of this, the trump must be lining his pockets in some way.
By the way- what’s going on with USA nuclear weapons at incirlik air base?
5
PKK/YPG terrorists will leave from the safe zone excluding the Kurdish civilians. About 4 million refugees (incl. Kurdish Syrians) currently living in Turkey will be sent to this zone. The Syrian Arabs were living in a large part of the zone before the Syrian war. Look at the map in this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_Syria
This map shows that PKK/YPG terrorists have occupied many places of the Northern and Eastern Syria with the help of the US-supplied arms when compared to the current map.
Meanwhile, is it so difficult to understand that PKK/YPG terrorists and Kurdish civilians are NOT same?
5
@Osmond YPG are * not * considered a terrorist organization by anyone but Turkey. They are simply not terrorists. If you want to read about terror, please read Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International Reports on the use of weapons of war by Turkey against Kurdish civilians. And remember that Turkey is the only illegally occupying power in Europe, with its occupation of Northern Cyprus. Turkey has * zero * moral ground to stand on.
3
@Osmond I’m glad you brought up the question of terrorists versus civilians. Watching news coverage of the Turkish attacks, you just see bombardments of the main towns. It doesn’t look like a targeted mission that distinguishes between civilians vs terrorists.
1
@Treetop Where did you see the "bombardments of the main towns"? This is NOT true.
2
You should not forget that the US and Turkey are 67-year NATO allies. So, this should not be compared to the temporary allies.
According to the agreement, PKK/YPG terrorists will leave from the safe zone excluding the Kurdish civilians. About 4 million refugees (incl. Kurdish Syrians) currently living in Turkey will be sent to this zone. The Syrian Arabs were living in a large part of the zone before the Syrian war. Look at the map in this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_Syria
This shows that PKK/YPG terrorists have occupied many places of the Northern and Eastern Syria with the help of the US-supplied arms. In addition, this is not a matter of the US inner politics!
Meanwhile, is it so difficult to understand that PKK/YPG terrorists and Kurdish civilians are NOT same?
6
Hope the Syrians and Russians evict the Turks from Syria using whatever means are at their disposal. Criminals should not benefit from their crimes.
1
Yeah, right. Like the hands of the Syrian and Russian governments are clean
I thought Trump was going to destroy Turkey's economy if they did anything he didn't like. When's that happening?
I thought we didn't care about Syria, and the battle over there was supposed to have nothing to do with us? How did that change?
Seriously, anyone who believes a word of what comes out of Trump and his cronies must have some weird mental deficiency that makes them unable to remember anything Trump said or did prior to today.
9
@Joe M
Spot on, thanks!
1
This administration couldn't negotiate their way out of a paper sack . What was a bad situation was made worst by Trump's withdrawal ; I'm sure the situation was so bad the Kurds capitulated to Assad and the Russians ; Erdogan is ruthless and the turks have a history of extreme brutality towards the Kurds and Armenians . Pence has accomplished nothing .
5
This is all a sham.
Erdogan is giving Trump five days "breathing room" and that piece of Syria is now Turkey's. Stay tuned for the civil war.
Way to go Donald.
Something like this was bound to happen sooner or later. And now it has.
7
@suzanne Turkey didn't "get" a piece of Syria; it will control a narrow strip of land along its border which is very important for its security.
2
@Some Guy
we'll see.
1
A bomb free highway has been opened for our allies, the Kurds to make themselves refugees from their homeland. Indeed, it's a great day for civilization.
7
@abeeaitch Turkey is an ally of US, not the Kurds!
2
@Some Guy. More Turkish government propaganda.
A total capitulation to an authoritarian and a blessing to ethnic cleansing. Pence, Trump and their ilk are a stain on our country, or what is left of that “great idea“ my ancestors fought for. Shame on them!
17
Semanticized “shame” is a luxury to be expressed,
but not experienced, as one has the freedom,
time, safe places, sated soma, psyche and soul, AND
opportunities to express.
Choices await each of US, to initiate,
ourselves and with others,
effective actions, to contribute to
making a needed difference that can
make a sustainable difference, beyond words, for
charging, indicting and adjudicating crimes
against humanity and those personally unaccountable
individuals who enable such ummenschlichkeit!
Words, whatever their impact, are shameless.
Feelings, not transmuted into helpful targeted
needed actions for equitable WELLBEING
can become seductively self-satiating.
Guilt is not enough.
Plant a little and IT can easily spread and infect,
paralyzing needed relevant DOINGS as well
NOT DOINGs.n
ANOTHER betrayal of the Kurds. This is outrageous an despicable.
It isn’t a ceasefire - it’s a deadline after whihc they will be murdered.
Trump surrendered their territory without them even having a say in it. They died for us! We promised to protect them.
Absolutely despicable
14
Five hours of deliberations. Pence makes a grand announcement and the Turks immediately contradict everything. Things seem to be going pretty much as expected after Trump unilaterally destroyed any shred of credibility the United States has in the world.
13
Hmm I wonder if Turkey was promised the F35 in spite of deploying Russian S400 radar system. Before this so-called agreement Trump pulled the promise of F35s from Erdogan. One can only wonder if he used the jets as a bargaining chip to get the cease fire?
1
So we have agreed to help carry out Turkish plans to achieve all their goals in Northern Syria?
What a brilliant piece of negotiation!
5
Russia got what they wanted too. It seems this whole chain of events needs investigating. Trump needs to be help accountable for freeing ISIS members and further ruining our standing in the world by abandoning our allies.
These maneuvers don’t benefit the US at all. But, I’m sure that was never the point for president “shake down”.
3
That was the quickest ceasefire in a region where wars last for ever. Diplomacy worked and lives saved to fight for another day. RIP those who lost in Turkey's aggression.
2
@Girish Kotwal
Except that before the "ceasefire", the Kurds weren't refugees, Russia and Iran didn't control new regions in Syria, and there was NO fighting at the border.
Why was there no fighting at the border?
Because there was a small but strategically crucial US peace-keeping force stationed there.
When did the fighting start? As soon as Trump told Erdogan that he agreed to withdraw US peacekeepers.
In the meanwhile, there is NO deal with Syria or the Kurds or ISIS or Russia or Iran AT ALL.
And the "deal" with Turkey simply consisted of allowing them to strongly hurt our and the Kurds' interests in the region.
That's not "diplomacy". That's caving after a gigantic blunder.
12
@Ana Luisa
Excellent summary of this horror. Thank you.
2
Ana Luisa, you must really like Turks :-). I wasn’t aware that they offended Belgians.
All roads lead to Putin. This one goes through Ankara on its way to Moscow.
Our country is on the ropes. These geopolitical defeats are almost impossibly to unwind.
Russia has literally displaced us in Syria and Putin and Erdogan are free to expedite travel to Europe of the ISIS all star terror squad.
Putin’s plan to jerk Europe both to the far right and out of NATO comes closer to victory as I write. If Trump can’t be removed post haste, we stand to fall hard and fast down a slippery slope of military failure , economic collapse and loss of our democratic republican form of government. Even one of those three would be worth getting him out fast for.
3
Trump's lackeys Pence and Pompeo went to Ankara and cemented Turkey's and Russia's gains in Syria, at the expense of the Kurds and the United States. What does Trump get out of this deal? Bigger 'Trump Hotels' in Moscow and Istanbul?
2
It will be a pause for 120 hours while the US oversees the withdrawal of the YPG [a Kurdish unit within the SDF] … Once that is completed, Turkey has agreed to a permanent ceasefire,” Pence said, adding that preparations were already underway.
So what Pence is saying is that the US will escort the Kurds out of their territory in Syria for the Turks!! What a victory - for Turkey that is.
2
Mr. Pence,
You got what you wanted? Hundreds of innocent Kurdish dead! Russia and Iran are now significant players in the Middle East, making the United States a weakened power broker who betrays allies, while a murderous dictator still rules Syria. And no sanctions against Turkey? Great Deal!
3
So basically the Turks will stop pushing the Kurds off of their ancestral land if the Kurds agree to leave the land. Pence really put the Turks feet to the fire!
4
Why after the Khashoggi case does the United States treat Turkey with white gloves and allow Turkey to do anything? Does the dictator Erdogan have any other compromising information about MBS? I don't know, but I've stopped believing in coincidences since a while ago.
2
@Alfredo It's a possibility. Turkey has been a thorn in Mohammad bin Salman's side and thus kept the spotlight on Trump and Kushner's close relationship with him.
So by giving our Kurd allies 5 days to surrender and evacuate Trump drops all economic sanctions?
Geez, our Great Negotiator gets totally played AGAIN!
Uncle! I am so tired of all this winning!
3
We wanted nothing, and we got what we wanted.
3
@Matt I meant with our dealings with Turkey.
@Matt. Wrong, they are not going home. They just shipped to Saudi Arabia. Plus a few more
Peace in our time, wowzers.
3
Erdoğan gets exactly what he wants: a Kurdish withdrawal from NE Syria and no US sanctions. The US just handed it to him. This in no way atones for what Trump did to the Kurds. I can't believe Pence/Trump is playing this off as a win.
Also, I'm super confused on how forcing people to flee their homeland in 120 hrs is considered is good thing. Pathetic.
7
Let me correct the your wrong comment! PKK/YPG terrorists will leave from the safe zone excluding the Kurdish civilians. About 4 million refugees (incl. Kurdish Syrians) currently living in Turkey will be sent to this zone. The Syrian Arabs were living in a large part of the zone before the Syrian war. Look at the map in this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_Syria
This map shows that PKK/YPG terrorists have occupied many places of the Northern and Eastern Syria with the help of the US-supplied arms.
Meanwhile, is it so difficult to understand that PKK/YPG terrorists and Kurdish civilians are NOT same.
2
@Osmond Yes, unfortunately it's so difficult to understand that PKK/YPG are terrorists and Kurdish civilians are nothing to do with them. Thanks for your comment.
1
Kurdish Withdrawal ? Where to VP Pence ? Cottages on the grounds of Mar a Largo paid for by U.S. taxpayers ? Welcome to Wonderland Alice.
7
During the campaign, Trump said "you're going to win so much…you're going to get tired of winning".
Who was he speaking to, Putin?
9
Kurds agreed to be our allies and have for years taken responsibility for capturing and holding our worst enemies - ISIS fighters, with what appears to be minimal American "boots on the ground". The Kurds kept ISIS terrorists at bay for years based just on our promise that we would have their back.
Now we simply step aside and let Turkish soldiers massacre the Kurds and release the ISIS terrorists? What do you think ISIS will do next?
3
The US has no right to be in Syria.
In 2012 a leaked diplomatic cable revealed that the US had been working to destabilize Syria since 2006, wanting regime change.
A worthy article on Syria, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/world/middleeast/syria-trump-kurds-interpreter.html, acknowledges the US continuing intent for regime change in Syria, using the Kurds as weaponized tools to control a third of Syria, keeping the Syrian government from benefiting from its richest agricultural land and its oil fields.
‘We’re going to use a permanent occupation in the northeast to force Bashar al-Assad to cut his own head off,’
"While the president promised withdrawal, Pentagon and State Department officials reassured Kurdish groups with promises to stay. Last year, the State Department, bowing to Turkish objections, quietly blocked a Kurdish effort to begin reconciliation talks with Damascus."
The above quote shows the deep state in action.
The elected president, who was elected with a promise "to bring the troops home" has been kept from this action until Turkey took the action of "invading" Syria and Trump was able to tell the US troops it was time to get out...
The Establishment, its media, the Washington Foreign Policy Establishment, and the Military Industrial Complex are in a fury.
Trump knows that US dominance in the world, is not possible, and does not make the American citizenry and society strong.
Trump may be crude and racist, but on this he is right!
3
So, the Chief tells the police, get out of the safe house; the bad guys come in and attack the guys we were protecting; we threaten to cut off their Netflix service, and they promise they won't rough anybody up for a few days, while they're busy moving in. And they want all the keys back.
Just getting so sick of winning.
4
@Neander
Nicely put!
1
I don’t think the Kurds are going to say, “Gee, I guess we have to leave now. Why, we can just pick up and move over there and get out of Turkey’s hair. Yessir.”
Bloodshed will increase. Maybe Trump and Pence plan to use our military against the Kurds now, as long as Turkey meets their price.
6
A 120 hour cease fire if the Kurds withdraw from their land. This was an agreement by the US with Turkey, not an agreement between Turkey and the Kurds for a ceasefire. Just another last minute, face saving and sloppy excuse for diplomacy by the Trump administration that will fail - and the second time in 10 days that the US abandoned has the Kurds.
3
This is terrible news. A real disaster.
Now we may not have a reason to keep our soldiers in Syria endlessly.
We must all speak up with one voice and insist that Congress create some new reason for our military to be there.
1
He creates the situation then brokers the peace. What a way to run a political campaign... I mean foreign policy.
3
@John
Please read the comment from sdw, Cleveland.
A week ago the Turks would not have dared to invade northern Syria. Now we have to send a high level delegation to Turkey to beg them to stop for a few days.
'So much winning...'
3
We got hosed. We gave up sanctions, gave Syrian land to Turkey and the Kurds don't agree that what Pence announced was what they agreed to. That's some "win."
3
This is not a ceasefire: it is actually a capitulation to Turkey, giving it the US go ahead to achieve its military goals. This 'ceasefire' just gives the Kurds five days to surrender all the territory that the Turks wish to occupy. Will the Syrian government, supported by their Russian allies, agree to surrender their territory to occupation by a foreign power? This agreement with one side of a conflict is just a fig leaf to try and extricate Trump from his terrible and tragic error. It is a betrayal on top of a betrayal. Nevertheless I predict that the Republicans will now fall into line in a breathtaking demonstration of hypocrisy and lack of spine.
6
The stable genius was totally played
4
I would never want to be in a foxhole with anyone from the Trump administration. No one would have my back!
2
As FDR said regarding Italy attacking France, "The neighbor stabbed the neighbor in the back." Well, not the neighbor but certainly the ally in the fight against Saddam and then ISIS. We stabbed the ally in the back. The U.S.'s promises are worthless unless Trump's can make a buck for himself.
2
The U.S. should now expedite immigration to the U.S. of Kurds and other Syrian people whom we placed in direct danger due to our abrupt withdrawal. We are responsible for giving the green light to their massacre and removal from their own lands into refugee status.
You broke it; you buy it.
3
Sure...Trump’ll move expeditiously to take some responsibility and accept refug...Sorry. I realized what I was typing and dissolved into helpless giggles.
1
Why is he there? Fearless and infallible leader said it was none of our business...
1
Wait - the deal is we give Turkey what they want and in return they agree to take it? Wow. That’s some negotiating finesse.
21
". . . raising questions about whether the agreement was a diplomatic breakthrough or a capitulation to the Turkish government."
Sounds more like a sell out across the board.
Don't think for one New York minute that this entire "cease-fire" scenario wasn't discussed and agreed upon between Trump and Erdogan during their recent Sunday phone call.
The next thing Trump will be bragging and boasting about is how he single handedly accomplished peace and a diplomatic victory, that he is a true humanitarian at heart.
Funny how none of the other international squabbles he has gotten this country into were never resolved so quickly, if at all. We are still at odds with North Korea and Iran.
This entire situation was pre-arranged and agreed upon so Russia could waltz in and take over.
6
Oh, really? Thought Trump was going to blow up the Turkish economy!
5
pence has gone and ruined Christianity for me. Thanks dude!
3
Without apparent thought or reason, Trump unleashes Erdogan. A geopolitical disaster and bloody massacre result. Trump makes yet another his great deals - losing everything and gaining nothing.
Putin visits Erdogan in a few days. Chill the vodka.
Who actually does wear leash?
5
It is about the incompetence of execution of all policy by this White House.
Such incredible incompetence.
3
The United States could not have made this deal three days ago, because Turkey had not yet achieved its military objectives. Now that it has, it is happy to offer a five-day pause, since it is done fighting for now, and would be just as happy to see whether the Kurds would leave. Soon enough, Turkey will have no reason to keep shooting, after America's Kurdish allies are wholly destroyed. At that point, the sanctions will be removed, and Turkey will have achieved its geopolitical objectives painlessly (unless it counts the loss of some of its soldiers). While the rest of the world adjusts to the astonishing fact that, under Trump, for lack of leadership, the United States is no longer a superpower, Trump will brag to his base about his great victory, and they will believe him. All bad, but this much may be good: Trump's apologists in Congress will have a hard time welcoming his strengthening Russia, Syria, and Iran, and causing all of our allies to know they can not trust us, and so may finally welcome convicting Trump after the impeachment he so richly deserves.
8
What's the chance the Kurds actually will leave, rather than regroup? What's the chance they'll forget they were betrayed by Trump (and by us through Trump)? They live in a revenge culture and have very long memories. What Trump has unleashed can't be reversed. It'll haunt us as well as Kurds for a long time now.
8
From a scientific point of view this agreement seems to be very interesting. One day ago Erdogan said we won't move back - and now - He sits on the same table as his NATO allies to create a pause of these so called unstoppable operation. Let's hope the best for Turkey and Syria.
1
Donald Trump’s surrogates – Vice President Mike Pence, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien – are meeting in Ankara with Turkish strongman, Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The purpose of the meeting is to put on a charade intended to fool the American public, Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill, and aghast observers around the word.
The charade is a highly orchestrated forgiveness of Erdogan in a ritual of faux-mercy for the Kurds whom Trump cruelly abandoned. Erdogan will be given another slap on the wrist of meaningless sanctions, after which Trump will dramatically drop all sanctions in a mission-accomplished moment.
Unmentioned are the tens of thousands of Kurdish lives already lost in assisting the United States fight ISIS and the many more thousands which will be lost in the next several weeks to Turkish bombs and artillery.
Unmentioned is the fact that Russia and Trump’s friend, Vladimir Putin, are the big winners when the Kurds are removed from the battle.
Unmentioned is the fact that Turkey has been busy replacing Kurdish families in Syria with Kurds who have identified with the Turks for generations. This ethnic cleansing is also focused on moving in people who are neither Turks nor Kurds. They are Sunni Arabs.
Trump thinks we are dumb, but he is wrong. Erdogan thinks he can blame everything on the Kurds and on President Trump. He is right about Trump, but wrong about the Kurds.
The world will not soon forget this crime.
8
An agreement that validates the Turkish invasion into Kurdish territories...
3
The only thing missing is Pence landing back in the USA and declaring that he has achieved "peace in our time".
7
As far as I'm aware, countries don't talk. Do these reporters have special ears that can hear Turkey say something?
1
This is an example of "The Art of The Deal"!
4
What a farce, Trump authorizing Erdogan to savage the Kurds...while Pence is trying to reverse that injustice...however cruelly late, like 'closing the barn after the donkey is dead'. Or, even better, 'too late to shut the barn close after the horse has bolted'.
Trump has a complete disregard for the truth. Pence is a proven liar. I don’t believe a thing he says.
6
Once again, the US got played and walked all over by another little country. Trump and the GOP are such ignoramuses. It’s a shame they no longer believe in America.
3
Buffer Zone? How about 22 miles inside Turkey’s border? Fake President, Fake Foreign policy...we are Fake Allies and fools since we are doing Turkey’s dirty work for them. Kick the Kurds out of their land and let 3 million Isis back into the buffer zone!
@Meredith PKK/YPG terrorists are located in Syria, not in Turkey.
1
@Some Guy Neither groups are terrorists...that is Turkey’s propaganda. YPG fought ISIS terrorists. PPK is in Turkey. If you want a buffer Zone you don’t invade another country. Turkey wants to dump 3 million Isis back into Syria.
Unacceptable!!!
Turkey needs to immediately withdraw from Syria. Nothing less is acceptable to the World Community.
Bomb Ankara the same way Turkey bombed the Kurds if Turkey doesn't immediately withdraw.
2
@Buzz D Is this a serious comment? Unbelievable!
1
A cease fire agreed to between an aggressor and a "country" who is not involved in the fighting? Normally, at least the two opposing forces are involved in negotiating this kind of "deal" or, at the very least, have authorized someone to speak for them, which clearly is not the case here. Is this Trump's new "Art of the Deal"? As with everything else he does, this is heavy-handed and ignores the facts on the ground. Wait, I forgot, Trump lives with alternate facts, those being the ones he wants to believe in.
1
Sure, take a breather, but don't relinquish territory you conquered. Turkey got what it wanted - Damage is done. Trump can declare an ersatz diplomatic victory to halt the crisis he himself started, one that achieved the goals of the aggressor he enabled, and deeply undermines US and world interest in the region's stability.
5
Now we move to a whole new level of absurdity and short-sighted thinking.
The Kurds cannot and will not withdraw. If they could or would it would have happened long ago.
But now Trump has removed the sanctions, and promised no more sanctions on Turkey. So if Erdogan waits his 5 days, rebuilds, refreshes and rearms his forces, and fine tunes his strategy, and then launches his attack in 5 days and 1 minute when the Kurds don't leave, he will do so with impunity.
He will have fulfilled his part of this implausible bargain, and the US will be obliged to uphold its part of the deal.
Of course, Trump will likely have a number of private and commercial reasons to make him very happy about lifting the punitive sanctions on Ankara, which is why in five days he will blame the Kurds themselves for being invaded by the Turks.
8
Two good things for Erdoan: popularity rose through the roof and he gets to limits Kurdish terrorists from establishing their foothold on Turkish Syrian border while also two things for Trump: he gets to deflect some issues of lately against him and now by 'apparently' stopping Turkey from further invasion he gets some props at home also.
2
Well this buys the US troops in Syria some time to pull some of their secret stuff and surplus weapons out instead of having to launch air strikes against it (as they've already had to do) or abandon it to the first comer. I suspect that was the primary motive to this deal, to avoiding looking any more absurd in the eyes of the world than we already look with this fiasco.
Meanwhile in 5 days the horror resumes.
3
Wow, so Turkey gets exactly what it wanted, AND we agree to no real sanctions to punish them for their actions. President Trump keeps winning. He has the respect of everyone!
3
The essence of this agreement: Pence gets Erdogan to allow the Kurds to surrender. I can't imagine any Nobel Peace Prizes will be forthcoming.
2
"But Turkey’s foreign minister, Mevlut Cavusoglu, immediately countered that the agreement was not a cease-fire at all, but merely a “pause for our operation.” He added that “as a result of our president’s skillful leadership, we got what we wanted.”
As an American, I am in the position of believing Turkey's foreign minister as opposed to the statement by Pence.
12
Jeezus, now Pence gave away sanctions as an options for, essentially, nothing. These guys are giving away America piece by piece. To stand up there and act like this is a triumph is the worst kind of lying by Pence. It seems that not one soul in this administration is honest.
13
This is an "agreement" (details to be seen) with Turkey. Not with the Russia troops on the ground, which now will, we can be sure, receive an invitation from their newest BFF Recep Erdogan to patrol through the area as they see fit and make sure everyone who needs to be evacuated or eliminated is. The Russians have just brought in their terrorist Wagner group that did some of the most despicable work in in Eastern Ukraine, and who are merciless. They are the real winners in this huge mess Trump created.
It's clearly a capitulation to the Turkish government, and Edogen certainly does “want to be responsible for slaughtering thousands of people” as long as they are Kurds.
I suspect Trump gave Erdogan the green light to invade Turkey and massacre the Kurds because Erdogan threatened to invade whether the US was there or not and Trump, instead of calling his bluff, was afraid of bad press if US troops were killed during his re-election campaign and caved. Remember that, early on, Trump said the Turkish army was so large the US army couldn't fight them? It's true that the US troops on the ground in northern Syria couldn't, but the US certainly could and, if allowed to, would if the Turks killed US military. Erdogen would know that but successfully counted on bluffing Trump. After all, he wouldn't be the first dictator to do so. Thanks another telephone call Congress needs a transcript of.
1
@Maureen Hawkins There are 8-10M Kurds living in Turkey peacefully and nobody "massacres" them.
1
Is this deal similar to buying a Rolex from a vendor on 7th Avenue for $200?
1
@Steve
How about a twofer for $500?
What Pence failed to note was that the meeting itself was necessary only because of our ignorant president' s order of withdrawal. Had he not acted in the manner he did, Erdogan would not have gone into Syria.
1
Trump seems to be subservient to the leaders he venerates like Erdogan and Putin. His foreign policy seems to be pursuing their policy objectives and diminishing American ones and tarnishing our honor.
His American First policies are reminiscent of the isolationists of the 1930s and are just as destructive and ill conceived. He has no qualifications to handle diplomacy and complex foreign relationships. He is both inept and incompetent. His administration will bear the blood of his abandonment of our brave Kurdish allies and this will be considered one of the most disgraceful and odious episodes in our diplomatic history.
Key word: temporary. Check this space 5 days from now. I trust nothing this adminstration says or claims to have done.
Notice that a joint press conference with a written statement by US and Turkey negotiators was NOT held. This is a crucial fact.
As the article points out, each side is now saying different things. So its safe to say that in effect NO agreement was reached.
3
I notice that Turkey is mimicking the US president now; each side is publicly crowing about getting what they wanted. It never looks good to boast when you get concessions; the first rule is to allow the other side to save face, thereby not setting in motion a new plot of revenge, eventually escalating a conflict.
In the business world, one can legitimately vanquish one’s opponent; in political diplomacy the other side is never going away. Trump has never understood this.
2
Funny that the Kurds' reaction isn't included. I can't imagine them being happy having to evacuate that entire area.
2
The alleged disaster of Trump withdrawing a handful of U.S. soldiers has led to a peace deal. Give peace a chance. End the Syrian civil war Washington.
1
As the bard said, much ado about nothing.
Creating heroes out of villains. here and there.
2
"Great for everybody." Doubt that the Kurds think so. Nothing says more about a country than how it treats its allies. This is an inexcusable act of treachery by a national "leader" who apparently hasn't got a clue about trust, alliance, or humanity.
4
Another day, another dollar. Trump at his best...making a problem, then supposedly "fixing" the problem...and basking in the glory. Trump has used the threat of economic sanctions to gain a 120 hour cease fire so that he can enrich his re-election bag of tricks.
1
@Meg
And just watch how Erdogan uses that time.
Suddenly the Neocons and Trump-haters are foreign policy experts. We know how well they did in getting us involved in this mess to begin with, but now they’re giving lessons on the importance of cultivating our alliances and following European norms. According to their belief our policy in Syria must revolve around the Kurds no matter how our own interests are affected. It turns out the Kurds were quick to find a new “ally” in Assad. Turkey, too, is our ally and a member of NATO. According to the NATO treaty we’re supposed to defend them if they’re attacked. Does that mean nothing but our first loyalty must now be to their enemy? Now Erdogan, after meeting with Pence, has agreed to a ceasefire. The Neocons and their allies of convenience the Neoliberals are flabbergasted. This is not how the script was supposed to go. They don’t know anything. They never did. For a change they should shut their big mouths and see how it all works out. Nothing they did ever accomplished anything but more bloodshed.
3
@Edward Nicely put Edward, thanks.
1
Only in Trumpworld is a 5 day delay in fighting considered a victory.
5
Mr. Pence and Mr. Pompeo are returning to the US with something sticking out in back.
2
Mr. Trump likes nostalgic slogans. Perhaps he will now abandon "America First" in favor of "Peace for our time."
2
This is Trump's capitulation to the Turkish government. The Turks hate the Kurds. The Kurds are an ethnic group, who have no secure homeland. They had a place to live in northeast Syria, now the Turks have essentially moved their borders into Syria to get rid of the Kurds.
2
@Jane Moody FYI, 8-10M Kurds are living in Turkey...peacefully.
1
@Some Guy The Kurdish-majority city of Diyarbakir has been blown to smitherines, is under martial law and inaccessible by the press or any aid groups. The Kurdish leader who posed a democratic challenge to Erdogan is facing 142-year prison sentence.
P.S. There are an estimated 20 million Kurds in Turkey.
So let me get this straight.
First Trump tells the Kurds to give up their positions and heaven weaponry along the Turkish border under the pretext the Turks then won’t have a reason to invade.
After the Kurds comply he betrays them big time by telling Erdohan he is free to go and invade the cleared areas.
Then the very moment Erdohan get’s into trouble achieving his goals because of intervening Syrians and Russians, Trump declares a “ceasefire” so his friend Erdohan can finish his land grab with ease and presents this “ceasefire” as a major achievement...
Wow. Nobel price for treason maybe?
6
This is really sickening. Pence brokers a deal to keep Turkey in Syria and for the US to aid the ethnic cleansing from their lands of Kurds - our allies who fought for us against ISIS and who have been trying to build a just and tolerant society that respects the rights of women and minorities. I am pretty sure that part of what has happened is explained by Trumps' hatred of the Kurds attempt to create a just progressive society. He actually wants them to fail and be wiped off the earth.
3
The Turks accomplished what they wanted. Kicked the Americans out, destroyed the Kurdish freedom and handed it to the Arabs and Russians, and most importantly they saved their brotherens the Islamic State. The Turks and Trump are one mind, one mentality, one passion.
4
But WHERE are the Kurds going to "live in peace"?!!
5
@Kitty In Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey as long as they do not involve in any terrorist activity.
1
Bewildered...Befuddled ..and certainly not Bemused ...
signed
The Rational Free World
PS ...wasn't Trump quick to remove the sanctions on Turkey...? (if they ever really existed....??
2
Come on, Trump resistors commenting here (of which I am one), you don't have to try to make EVERYTHING this administration does a negative. Of course the creation of this situation in the first place is an impetuous action by an unfit President. But this cease-fire is a good thing. It is totally reasonable for Turkey to want a buffer between their country and a known hostile militia. Now, the Kurds have five days to pull out of the buffer zone and be left alone. What better could be hoped for at this point?
3
From the Trump playbook:
• Start a fire that would benefit Putin
• Rave about the fire as being the most beautiful fire ever, even better than Honest Abe’s
• When the media points out the insanity of the fire, rant against the fire
• Blame Hillary, Obama, Biden of starting the fire
• Do nothing about the fire while waiting for Putin to give an order
• Declare the fire to be over as it rages into an uncontrollable conflagration
How trumpesque is this: create a crisis then swoop in to somehow resolve it to promote his brand and image. Shameful, shameful, shameful!
2
The US just showed the Kurds the exit door and told them don't let the door hit you on the way out.
2
"History doesn't repeat itself; but it rhymes"
Back in 1938 in Munich, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlin negotiated that the Czechs would withdraw from the Sudetenland so that Herr Hitler's troops could occupy it.
That concession (betrayal of the Czechs) was to ensure "peace in our time". It didn't quite work out that way.
3
"This is not a cease fire" from Turkish Foreign Minister
2
When Putin says, “JUMP!”, Trump asks, “how high?” On the way up. Trump enabled Russia’s geopolitical wishes in this part of the world, and sending his VP & SS is just window dressing to mask Trump’s collusion with Russian interests.
What a *Great * deal. The Kurds have 120 hours to leave their land so that the invading army can occupy it !
-This is NATO nonsense.
-Similar to what occurred with Russia at the Baltic borders in WW II.
-Stalin would be proud of " Individual # 1 "
2
@Kringletown That land that Kurds occupied and ethnically cleansed is Syrian not Kurdish; Kurds used Russian and others pummeling of ISIS t capture other people lands; but in the US due to lack of knowledge people just keep on writing that Kurds are somehow US allies.
2
@kakorako Agree.
1
This is what Donald J. Trump calls a Victory! He is a phony!
Once a con, always a con. The current Commander in Chief just threw his military and this once proud nation, he swore to protect, under the bus. Shame!
1
What we have is a back dated letter covering President Trump and a half baked effort by P & P to stop what Trump is trying to spin his way around. It's a cinch the president missed judged the consequences so he is in cover up mode. FOX News still has his back.
Why did Trump not plan an orderly withdrawal?
I personally think he just cannot think that far ahead.
3
The best the Kurds can hope for is some sort of semi-autonomous region under the government of Syria, similar to what the Iraqi Kurds have in Kurdistan. But it will require skilled negotiation.
I suggest the Kurds forget about America and start dealing with Russia. They are talking to all the key players and that is what needed for the Kurds to get a decent deal.
@Judy Weller,
The problem is that because of Trump's dumb decision,they lost all negotiating power.
Russia, Iran and Syria (and Turkey) of course entirely disagree with the idea that they would have an autonomous region inside Syria - that's one of the reasons why those governments have been fighting both against the Kurds and against ISIS.
As long as the Kurds had the US as their main ally, however, Russia and Syria were forced to take their needs into account.
Now that the US abandoned them, they're at the mercy of the Kurdish and Syrian dictators. WHY would those dictators want to help them (= empower them, as known US allies for 3 decades) ... ?
This is a REAL betrayal of the Kurds, with far-reaching consequences.
1
This is another great achievement of Trump. If Erdogan had listened to Trump, it could have been achieved without any bloodshed. So, he fooled himself as Trump wrote in his letter sent to Erdogan. Now all the parties are involved, they can talk and find a solution for all the issues, including some autonomy for Kurds without dividing Syria. But America is not going to fight for Kurds' national aspiration.
3
@Alex E
This is insane. First, at the level of "negotiation," Turkey gave up nothing, and we got nothing. Second, the Kurds have nowhere to go and Turkey isn't proposing to negotiate with them. Third, listen to DJT's language this afternoon: he's speaking a specific terminology, it's the terminology of ethnic cleansing.
This administration is corrupt and now has sunk into a moral depravity that is out in the open for all to see, and yet people refuse to see it. You can start practicing your "we didn't know; we had no idea this was going on" excuses now, because they will be needed in the future if we stand by and passively allow this administration to drag us further into the moral abyss.
1
@Alex E
FYI: before ending the US peace-keeping mission, all the parties involved could talk and find a solution too, remember?
It's just that Trump did nothing.
Now, we lost the Kurds as our main allies, whereas without them, we can't keep ISIS out of Iraq and Syria. And when ISIS thrives, anti-US terrorism thrives, which was why we went there in the first place, remember?
And of course, without America's backing the Kurds will NOT obtain any autonomy at all, as now they're at the mercy of the Russian and Syrian dictators.
Finally, WHY would we actively deny the Kurdish people their own state, and instead allow their enemy to start killing them? Any concrete ideas?
2
Who is “we” exactly that is doing the denying?
Is it the same we who denies Palestinians a state of their own?
2
Some breakthrough. Now all sides have a few days to catch their breath and prepare for the next round of combat.
3
Another Trump sell-out of our allies and alliances, just as he’s trying to do in Afghanistan.
4
Why should US continue to be involved in the area? With the Iraq War in 2003 US created a mighty mess in Middle East that will last long time. We have neither ability nor intellectual heft or the political will to solve the problem we have created. Why get into an alliance with PKK/PYD, a group that has caused 50,000 deaths in Turkey, knowing (as well as admitting in Congressional hearings) fully well that PYD is an offshoot of terror organization PKK? Didn't Washington realize in 2015 that because of the Iraq War anti-American feelings took a quantum leap in Turkey and US/PYD alliance made it worse? Both Obama and Trump played into the hands of Erdogan who was rapidly losing political support. Sanctions will punish the Turks not Erdogan. Just remember Turkey is NOT a country created by colonial powers. It is also not a tribal or a "banana republic". Let's pull ourselves together and respect the Turks while criticizing Erdogan. They were the bulwark against the Soviet Union while Western Europe licked its wounds from WW2 and recovered. Ignorance and spite will get us nowhere.
3
@LCG
Your first sentence is the answer to your question.
It's BECAUSE we created this mess that it's utterly naive to imagine that once we're tired of its consequences, we can just withdraw.
That's why a peace-keeping mission at the Syrian border had such crucially strategic importance, from a US national security point of view, remember?
And Turkey WAS created by the West after WWI, remember?
That's when the West decided to just ignore the Kurds and put them into 4 different countries.
2
No I dont remember Turkey being created by the west in 1918. I know the West wanted to destroy it (Sykes-Picot-Sazanov Pact?
Belgium on the other hand is a creation of the west. The two sides really adore each other. The late And incomparable Jacques Brel said it (and sang it) real well.
4
@Ana Luisa
Turkey fought for four years Greeks, Brits, Italians and the French. They don't owe their creation or independence to the West. They together with Kurds fought for it, they spilt their blood. Get your history right.
2
So American and Turkey agree that it would be best if the Kurds leave their disputed lands that they have fought, bled and died for?
Turkey gets 5 days to re-arm regroup and prepare for the onslaught that they will launch because the Kurds can't and won't leave. When Turkey does invade, they and the US negotiators, including Trump, will declare the renewed fighting to be the Kurd's fault for being unreasonable.
Meanwhile, even if the Kurds leave and Turkey sets up its 20 mile safe zone, it will have a new border 20 miles inside Syria, with a hostile force grouped at 20 miles and 3 feet.
Wash, rinse and repeat. Trump and Pence will find that peace is no easier to negotiate than trade wars are to win.
3
How is this great news? A cease-fire based on the Kurds evacuating their homeland. What makes Trump believe they will leave without fighting, especially when they weren't involved in this agreement?
7
There are 3.6 million Syrian refugees in Turkey. Their presence has created a lot of tension. Perhaps they can return to their homelands, as Erdogan has intended, and start rebuilding. Maybe this war can finally end. I'm not optimistic, but... maybe.
To resolve the many loose ends, all nations should take responsibility for their own citizens. Assad should take responsibility for the displaced Syrians and help rebuild their communities. Russia, Europe, the US, etc., should take back their citizens who chose to join a terrorist regime, and treat them to due process according to their respective laws. No one has the privilege of claiming this is not their problem. The conflicts in the Middle East are the result of a century of cause-and-effect, and no one is innocent.
4
I'm surprised Trump would give Pence this large of a political win considering the impeachment proceedings. No matter how horrific this deal is and how many innocent people will be brutally murdered as a result, the headline still reads that Pence negotiated peace in the middle east. And that's in the "liberal news media" too.
@Quinn
Ummm...I believe Pence reports to our President, no?
So this is yet another win for the current administration.
Appreciate you posting and letting people know about this win
1
@Quinn
He negotiated a 5-day cease fire on the part of one party to a conflict. The Kurds weren't consulted; Syria wasn't consulted. This is not peace in the Middle East.
3
So the net result is that the Kurds have to leave a corner of Syria where they had set up what appeared to be a really good living situation and Erdogan and Trump get off without any penalty. And Assad takes over territory were able to live without his interference. Justice prevails as usual.
3
So,here's what it looks like on the ground in Syria: the Turkish army gets a five day rest period; the Arab militias coming from Turkey mop up in the villages of the Kurds; Asad's forces occupy whatever the militias do not. The Syrian Kurds are left to squeeze onto the roads leading where? Wherever the Turks eventually say so.
Then, Turkey, Russia and Asad have a celebration -- where? Choose: Damascus, Ankara or Moscow? Perhaps they'll do all three.....
1
Another sellout of the Kurds and no solution to the Turkish invasion of Syria. Of course, the Kurds will not leave and as more Syrian troops arrive to strengthen and resupply the Kurdish fighters the violence will resume even stronger in five days, assuming that the Kurds will comply . Have they even been consulted? I doubt it.
1
The only thing the Trump administration has not done for Erdogan is join his side militarily in expelling the Kurds from this area. This is an enormous win for Turkey. They do not even have to fight any more to have the Kurds removed.
2
Unbelievable. That’s the same demand that Erdogan made of the Kurds when he opened the offensive. Corrupt. A public relations stunt to mask doing nothing, not even sanctions.
2
This is amazing! Trump gives Erdogan permission to attack Northern Syria without consultation with anyone. The Turks attack the Kurd's mainly using Arabs Militias. Trump gets pressure from Congress and only after Turkey secures the buffer zone they wanted in the first place, Turkey agree to a cease fire and trump takes credit for stopping the war he started.
2
This is Trump's version of "Peace in our time..."
Let's pray we don't get dragged into a major regional conflict when the whole situation collapses.
Turkey is playing the U.S. like a fiddle, just as China and N. Korea are. Mission is NOT accomplished.
1
So how is Trump going to get the Kurds to retreat from northern Syria and at the same time not be involved?
1
The "deal" is complete surrender and absolute betrayal of your ally. What a deal maker!
1
erdogans goal has been achieved thanks to the green light trump gave him... the job is done... and the russians are also happy... so is assad... now trump wants to take credit for the ceasefire of a conflict he himself is responsible for... and because erdogan agreed to the ceasefire the „complete destruction of the turkish economy“ trump threatened with is from the table and the sanctions lifted... even more, the american vice president promised erdogan to see to that the kurdish fighters retreat... so everybody is happy except for the kurdish fighters who are wounded or dead and for the families who have to leave their homes and flee... and for the american soldiers who had to leave behind their allies who had fought with them and now feel used and ashamed because of that... and for all the people who see through this ugly play and who have a minimum of empathy & humanity in them...
Well, thank you so much, Trump, Erdogan, Pence and Pompeo. How much more complicated, devastating, time consuming and costly this would have been had that phone call between Trump and Erdogan had gone this way:
Erdogan: We’re going to invade Syria on Wednesday. The Kurds are too close to our southern border.
Trump: No, you’re not. We have U.S., British and French troops in that zone.
Erdogan: The PPK continues their terrorist attacks on Turkey. We have to remove them.
Trump: The Kurds on the Syrian border are not PPK. They are our allies. They assisted in my defeat of ISIS.
Let’s talk to their leader and work out some kind of solution. We get the ISIS leaders out of Syria and into the U. S. You provide military assistance to contain the remaining ISIS supporters and watch over those refugees who fled the Syrian civil war. The Kurdish fighters return to Syria, at the invitation of Assad and with immunity. The U.S. withdraws 1400 troops and a detail of 100 NATO peacekeepers remains at the Syrian border.
Erdogan: Well — we don’t get any credit for resolving the mess we made this way.
Trump: For once, let’s try doing the right thing.
(They both laugh uproariously.)
2
And why should the Kurds leave their lands? They now have an agreement with Assad and Russia to stay and fight it off with Turkey. Why should they listen to the US Administration that sold them out?
1
Meanwhile, teTurkish Foreign Minister claims tis is not a cease-fire and there will only be one if their conditions are met.
This looks like more of a political stunt to me and it is still an act of genocide is it not? Why would the kurds leave if they have the backing of the Syrian government and Russia? This smells. Turkey and Trump can say "we tried and the Kurdish fighters are to blame for any ongoing conflict." Looks like everyone is trying to "save face."
I wonder how the Syrians feel about losing a large part of their country?
1
A cease fire for a problem Trump created. A victory for whom?
Turkey says there is NO cease fire. They will stop ONLY if their conditions are met! Who do you believe? The lying Trump administration or anybody else?
1
This is not a path to peace. These are the terms of a surrender, by Kurds to Syria and their Russian patron, and to Turkey and their U.S. patron who betrayed the Kurds in the most despicable of ways.
1
Mike Pence is now the Nigel Chamberlain of our day. He just gave Turkey the Sudenland ( Northern Syria ). Erdogan gets his safe zone. I did not read where Turkey pulls back they troops. Do they continue to occupy Northern Syria? Only now they get it for free. I am afraid now for the Ukraine. After all, as Russia is already occupying parts of Crimea..well let them have that too.
So you start a fire, and then you put out the fire. And now you want to take credit for your glorious diplomacy? Trump will probably want the Nobel prize for this. I'm sure the Kurds are not that thrilled with this "great" deal.
Don't rush bringing Pence and Pompeo back: They should stay abroad a little longer so they can negotiate some equally artful "deals" to (for example) give Estonia, Lithuania and eastern Poland back to the Russians. Why not Finland too?
Oh, and I imagine various NATO members are adjusting their plans, because they sure can't count on the good old USA to honor any mutual aid agreements.
The whole thing is sickening.
1
Sounds like Turkey got exactly what it wanted, and Trump gets to keep his Trump Tower Istanbul. What a deal!
"He noted that the United States accepted the importance of the safe zone to protect Turkey’s legitimate security interests".
-The U.S. has no right to " accept" an invasion of Syria by Turkey and not outright object to the entire operation.
-Doofus " negotiators". Negotiate and get nothing or less than what you had before.
1
America continues to betray the Kurds by agreeing, without the presence or agreement of the Kurds, to graciously permit them 120 hours to vacate land they have long held or what? They will continue to annihilate them? Terms like that were commonly offered by the Nazis in WWII.
While we can't effectively speculate long term, we can see the effects short term. In Kobani we have abandoned an air base (where most of our troops were located) that was the size of about 350 football fields and capable of handling our big C-17 transports and was built in order to fight ISIS. Now that fight will perhaps continue from far away Iraq which will make quick reaction attacks much more difficult, particularly without the former Kurdish allies who did most of the fighting.
But those bases will be not go unused. As selfies by Russian reporters have shown they are being welcomed to facilities in "move-in" condition, thanks to Trump Real Estate Associates. It's almost as if Trump and Putin coordinated all this, isn't?
1
That’s not what a cease fire is for: to ask the enemy to surrender.
What do the amateurs of the White House think the Kurds will do?
What a nonsense deal - for no sanctions.
1
Meanwhile the dead are dead and the Kurds are now on Putin’s side, and where are they gonna retreat? they live in that area, and why are just turkey and the US deciding their fate?
"...Peace is at hand"...Henry Kissinger, October 26 1972.
There is another smell of capitulation now coming from the mouths of Trump, Pence and Pompeo...the smell is still foul. Same lie, different location.
Two faces saved but Kurds still lose.
Well, I feel better. I mean, nothing like a quick cease-fire in the Mideast to solve all. Can’t wait to see the latest self-satisfied smirks on the faces of the two Mikes.
Of course the Kurds have already refused this "cease fire" that was negotiated without them. There is no changing the damage already done, and there will be no peace.
How dumb does Pence think we are.
1
It looks as though this "ceasefire" is all smoke and mirrors.
Turkey says it's not a ceasefire because you can only have one with a legitimate opponent.
The Kirds, who are being asked to give up their land and their homes so Turkey can build new settlements where they now live, have said they're not going anywhere.
So what exactly is this other than a photo op? Especially since that ridiculous letter that Erdogan threw in the trash.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50080737
@Madeleine215 you are confusing israel with turkey? New settlements? Deporting people?
North syria has Arabs, Turkmen, Kurdish, assyrians, amd several other ethnic people, arabs who left the area are coming back, so i think you should do some research before commenting. Only pkk, ypg armed groups, fighters, terrorists are asked to leave. Now you can deny that they are not terrorists. But our own state department said that they are terrrorists, treasury dept also, unless they make up fake info etc. then fine. Be that way, :))
2
@Geronimo Correct.
1
If this was an Obama/Biden/Kerry production, the entire Republican caucus would be screaming bloody murder. Complete with Neville Chamberlain and Jane Fonda references. Trump would be wailing at the cowardice and incompetence of the administration and that if he were President he would have fixed the situation beautifully and quickly.
1
Another quid pro quo???
""CNN reported this week that Erdogan had previously urged President Trump in a phone call to drop a potential DOJ indictment into the state-owned Turkish bank Halkbank. Trump told Erdogan he would have his people look into it.
The US indicted Halkbank on Tuesday on charges related to evading sanctions on Iran."""
Any chance Halbank nade loans to any Trump entity?
1
On October 6th, 2019, Donald Trump orders our soldiers "to come home", from Syria. He does this impulsively, with no forethought whatsoever, betraying the Kurds. Please know these are the same men and women who fought side by side with US Green Berets against ISIS and other Islamic rebel factions of the Taliban. This action directly causes Syrian and Russian soldiers to (A) Slaughter who knows how many Kurdish men, women and children, plus (B) The near-instantaneous loss of hard fought ground. Ground which the Kurdish people may have ultimately called "home". Then Trump does what is typical when he is on the defensive: Name calling, like a child does when he is scared: He immediately calls many of the Kurds "a terrorist threat". There are over 2,000,000 Kurdish people, and almost all have no country, much less a home. Trump did this while simultaneously continuing the longest war (9/11/2019 marked 18 years) in American history in Afghanistan. Each military service has a legacy there, (including the Coast Guard!). The deployments total over 775,000 Americans. What follows are the breakdown by service deployments. Army: over 490,000; Air Force: over 123,000; Marine Corps: over 114,000; Navy: over 46,000; Coast Guard: 103. This is something America will regret for years. Worse, other countries will view America as a country which cannot be trusted. If Trump truly worried about money, he would severely cut back all soldiers in Afghanistan. It was a cowardly, gutless thing to do.
The Kurds cannot and will not agree to this travesty of a “deal“ proposed by the Turks and endorsed by Trump as there is nothing here of any value for this valiant people.
Doesn’t Trump understand? His betrayal has already overturned the best deal America could have had in that region for this time and there’s no saying “oops!, do-over”. The blood has been spilled, ISIS is loose, Assad, Russia and Iran the winners and America looks the fool.
I am ashamed.
Keep up the insightful reporting NYT
1
Lead by retreating.
1
All right!!!
The Trump Retreat to Riyadh can proceed safely.
With supplies and resources in Syria bombed by USAF
The most powerful military in the world can now defend the ii-equipped impoverished House of Saud.
Clearly Right Reverend Pence has earned the120 Nobel Peace Prize.
Think of it this way: How far into U.S. territory do you think Trump would permit Mexican troops to proceed before "negotiating" a "deal" that gives the Mexicans Texas?
With friends like Donald Trump, who needs enemies!
This is disgusting. Where are the Kurds in this so-called agreement? Just seems like Trump/Pence/Pompeo gave Erdogan everything he wanted. Permission to invade a country, and blast anyone who is in the way after 5 days. Total sell out to a partner. So who will sign up when we need to round up ISIS next time?
he really thinks the world is a fool ? turkey still is allowed to have the entire zone they wanted from the beginning.
Did Hittite King and Ottoman Sultan wannabe Recep Tayyip Erdogan fade and fold like a clucking hen because of Donald John Trump's bombastic bloviating boyish letter?
Did Mr. Erdogan not notice nor recall that the only 'fire and fury' that 'Rocket Man' aka Kim Jong Un ever faced was a beloved obsequious blooming bromance?
Did Mr. Erdogan not notice nor recall how bowing and scraping and crawling beholden to Vladimir Putin Donald Trump has always been?
Did Mr. Erdogan not notice nor recall how the Saudis are allowed and encouraged by America to engage in ethnic sectarian cleansing terrorism against the Houthi in Yemen?
Did Mr. Erdogan not notice nor recall how the Israelis are allowed and encouraged by America to engage in ethnic sectarian cleansing terrorism against the Palestinians in Gaza, Golan Heights, East Jerusalem, Israel and West Bank?
Russia if you are listening let us see the transcripts of what happened here? China? North Korea? Iran?
1
Sounds like more capitulation to Turkey for the sake of p.r. for Trump and his flunlies
Now it is becoming more clear that this was a pre-planned set up to get the Kurds to give up on their aspiration for autonomy in Syria and move farther away from Turkish border. But it leaves the status of Syrian refugees in Turkey in limbo.
A 5-day ceasefire is not enough to work out the details and end this war once and for all. Turkey has the right to send the refugees back, but no right for carving out a buffer zone in Syria. If they want a buffer zone they should use their own land.
2
Well now, this puts a different meaning to fairness for the likes of DJT, the WH and DJT's defenders. The DJT administration lays bare its willingness to engage in talks without allowing the representation of affected parties. US VP Pence swoops in to negotiate with Turkey for the Kurds about their withdrawal from a region in a 3rd country Syria. When and how was the Kurdish and Syrian input obtained and who represented the Kurds and Syrians in the negotiations to temporarily stall Turkey's incursion into Syria?
3
There's a key group not represented at the table: The Kurds. Why should the Kurds during the cease fire decide to retreat 20 miles? That's not a given. I'm not convinced this move is particularly helpful or will do anybody any good other than the Syrians and Russians.
By the way, did you know that overall there are 30-45 million Kurds, and they'd have their own country today if it weren't for the dirty Treaty of Lausanne in 1923? Knowing the history of the region gives a deeper perspective.
15
A cease fire agreed to between an aggressor and a "country" who is not involved in the fighting? Normally, at least the two opposing forces are involved in negotiating this kind of "deal" or, at the very least, have authorized someone to speak for them, which clearly is not the case here. Is this Trump's new "Art of the Deal"? As with everything else he does, this is heavy-handed and ignores the facts on the ground. Wait, I forgot, Trump lives with alternate facts, those being the ones he wants to believe in.
1
Once again Trump and his administration cause a world problem only to pretend to be the saviors days later. Where will the Kurds live? Who will control this border area? Who will make Turkey adhere to a permanent ceasefire they already claim not to have agreed to? And why were the Kurds not involved in these negotiations?
7
A cease fire agreed to between an aggressor and a "country" who is not involved in the fighting? Normally, at least the two opposing forces are involved in negotiating this kind of "deal" or, at the very least, have authorized someone to speak for them, which clearly is not the case here. Is this Trump's new "Art of the Deal"? As with everything else he does, this is heavy-handed and ignores the facts on the ground. Wait, I forgot, Trump lives with alternate facts, those being the ones he wants to believe in.
Glad that these steps have been taken even as I wonder at the frightening Hobbesian world the US is creating with our lack of diplomacy. We don't seem to have the time or know how to do the right thing up front--we push forward. We lose track of the elements when we backtrack and declare what a great job we've done correcting the mess we willfully made. Aargh!!
The Syrians, Kurds and Russians have already blocked Turkeys advance This agreement to allow Turkey to operate within the 20 mile (30 kilometer) wide strip on the northern border is empty. The Kurds who were not consulted on this empty agreement will continue to repulse the Turkish invaders and Syria and their Russian backers will move to assert their sovereignty. On top of that the US Congress may impose greater sanctions on Turkey to stop their violence.
1
Neither the Kurds nor the government of Syria were involved in the announcement; we might imagine, though, that somewhere behind the scenes the other parties to the conflict were brought into the discussion. As someone already commented "the genie is out of the bottle"; as we've learned to our dismay, suffering will resume to people on all sides and most sadly probably as we contemplate the news of this most recent development. The photographer who snapped the shot of Pence and Erdogan deftly captured what appears to be a dunce cap on our vice-president's head; I can only hope it's not true.
1
A cease fire agreed to between an aggressor and a "country" who is not involved in the fighting? Normally, at least the two opposing forces are involved in negotiating this kind of "deal" or, at the very least, have authorized someone to speak for them, which clearly is not the case here. Is this Trump's new "Art of the Deal"? As with everything else he does, this is heavy-handed and ignores the facts on the ground. Wait, I forgot, Trump lives with alternate facts, those being the ones he wants to believe in.
Let's hope the US uses the five days to get all its forces out of Syria-where they never should have been deployed in the first place. And let's hope American forces come home from Afghanistan and Iraq too. What could be more symbolic of serial failures of US Middle East policy than having to bomb its own base in Syria?
So the US has agreed to allow Turkey to ethnically cleanse a vast swath of another country and leave it defenseless against more aggression from them in the future.
Imagine if it were the US that was invaded, and the terms for a cease fire is that our national guard abandon several states to be permanently occupied and resettled by the invading country. That's some good negotiating there, Mr. Pompeo and Mr Pence! What a victory for peace!
And NONE of this has to happen in the first place if not for a president who listens more to a few minutes of a tyrant's flattery on the phone than to briefings and advice from his own state department, military and security agencies.
4
Trump already broke this egg. Despite the self-aggrandized posturing there is no way to fix this. People are dead. The Kurds are now aligned with Russia and Assad. We have lost an important secular ally in the region - lost forever. Who will ever trust us in the future?
7
Where will the kurds go and they have not even agreed to this deal. He removed 50 soldiers that were preventing the turks from attacking the kurds who sacrificed 11000 soldiers to fight isis and now he has given up their land to the turks after they have committed war crimes having made no concessions in return. And this entire chain of events triggered by just one phone call. I somehow feel the transcript of this phone call will be even more damaging than the ukranian call transcript.
4
How generous -- Turkey is going to let the group they're fighting against retreat so they can take as much land as they want.
4
The Kurds have already rejected the so-called "peace" terms. They were negotiated over their heads, and amount to nothing more than Trump agreeing to whatever Erdogan wants.
1
There are a ton of naysaying Democrat critics with egg on their faces today as team Trump seems to have accomplished what Democrat leadership did not in Syria: US disentanglement and a cease-fire.
2
@OldEngineer
We'll see. The Turkish Foreign Minister claims there is NOT a cease-fire agreement.
@OldEngineer Not to mention (1) abandoning an ally (I bet the members of NATO are reconsidering their trust in America's promises), (2) giving an invader the green light (Russia must be looking at taking more of Ukraine), and (3) turning the Kurds from friends to another group of potential terrorists with an anti-American axe to grind. Good work!
1
@Peter No green light. Allies having nation state status are a bit more solid than stateless guerilla forces no matter how earnest. Kurds are now as for generations, hoping to carve out a homeland from the disputed territories. Explain the upside of our interjection
Great deal. Now the Kurdish population in this part of Syria will have no one to defend them. This is not a cease-fire, it is a complete surrender by the Kurdish forces negotiated by Turkey and President Trump. Now the Turks can move Syrian refugees into the area and displace the Kurds there. And ISIS can reorganize and restart its terrorist activities. Nice job, Donnie!
2
@Jeff Not really; you show lack of knowledge of topic; Kurds occupied land that doesn't belong to them during ISIS collapse from Russian and Syrian government pummeling of ISIS. Thus, those lands are Syrian lands and Turkey wants to simply return those refugees back to Syria from where they were kicked out.
2
Where exactly will the Kurds go? So, after fighting against our enemies, and counting their dead and wounded, they will just pack up?
This reminds me in so many ways of our actions in Iraq. We are clueless in our actions in this part of the world, and we have a president who doesn't understand anything, except how does this enrich him.
1
This ‘cease-fire’ gives Erdogan exactly what he wanted when our esteemed President gave him the go-ahead to invade and occupy the border region with Syria to create a buffer zone. This basically makes the current administration complicit in the Turkish machinations. I can’t imagine the Kurds will agree to this...
3
So the Kurdish fighters are going to leave and go where? Is the US looking a flood of new refugees?
What about all the Kurds who are not fighters, just families living where their ancestors have for generations? Left to the mercy of the Turkish government? That doesn't sound like a win.
This is basically putting lipstick on a pig and calling it a movie star. Typical Trump administration short term action with no long term plan.
Expect bad news within the week.
4
So basically Turkey gets everything they want for free. Sounds like a win-win!
3
Gee whiz, glad the prayers were answered, Mr. Pious Pence. How he can even mention prayer when working for this administration is beyond the pale.
Our allies are fleeing and dying while the President makes a mockery of our country when rambling about plentiful sand and rolls out the welcome mat for Erdogan, Putin and Bashar-al-Assad. He says he hates Isis more than Pelosi and discredits General Mattis and on and on. Wake me when our cherished, but imperfect democracy attempts greatness again. Please don’t let it be too late.
6
The Turks have won and the Kurds have been evicted from their homeland.
Does anyone believe Erdogan will stop at an ill defined 22 mile border, who will control this so called cease fire.
The Kurds should never have been put into this terrible position
A President with unmatched wisdom would have formulated a plan , negotiated with Turkey with the threats of comprehensive sanctions in our back pocket before with drawing any troops.
Instead we sacrificed our allies the Kurds who have already sacrificed thousands of lives to keep us safe from ISIS.
This pause does not redeem Trump and Pence this night should kneel and beg forgiveness for serving this self serving President
3
Let me get this straight. Trump pulls the troops out of Syria, stabbing our allies in the back and leaving the Kurdish people to get slaughtered by Turkey or turn into refugees. Now he is congratulating himself and his administration for temporary fixing the mess he made? How is this a success? Fine, the shooting stops but the surviving Kurds have lost their homes and are now on the run. Missing accomplished?
By the way, I didn't see anything about the nukes Turkey is holding hostage.
2
There’s no mention of the murderous Arab militias that came along with the Turkish army. Are they part of this ceasefire?
Perhaps the Russians will hold them back on Assad’s behalf...
1
There’s no mention of the murderous Arab militias that came along with the Turkish army. Are they part of this ceasefire?
Perhaps the Russians will hold them back on Assad’s behalf...
1
There’s no mention of the murderous Arab militias that came along with the Turkish army. Are they part of this ceasefire?
Perhaps the Russians will hold them back on Assad’s behalf...
This "show" like so many previous episodes before only has to be barely enough to convince his base, nothing more.
Those of us getting real news from real journalist know it changes nothing.
Starting with Pence being involved, this deal fails the smell test. Have the Kurds agreed? To where are all the Kurds in the safe zone going to move in 5 days? Is Assad on board? Does he want the Kurds occupying the northeast part of Syria forever? And neither Russia nor Iran want a say in this? And where are the ISIS fighters? Trump just took a mess and made it worse. He is already lying that he has saved millions, and meanwhile he is leaving the Middle East in the hands of four despotic regimes. This story will change before sunrise and surely will get worse. Erdogan wants the US to deliver to him the cleric that he claims orchestrated the coup. I believe nothing from the Trump White House, and I would not be surprised that Trump gave the cleric up. Trump had no other card to play.
1
I would suggest that this is just another case of Trump asking a foreign head of state to help him burnish his political image.
Shortly after his inauguration, he asked the President of Mexico, in a phone call, to lie in support of Trump's proclamation declaring Mexico would pay for his useless border wall. The Mexican president declined to perpetuate this Trump lie.
When he ordered the retaliatory missile strike in Syria, I'm all but certain he cleared and coordinated it with Putin. If you'll recall Putin said "meh" after the airstrike vowing not to hit back. He sacrificed just enough Russian soldiers to give the appearance of Trump actually getting tough with Putin and Russia.
In the debacle with Turkey, I speculate the following. Trump penned his inane missive to Erdogan threatening to blow up Turkey's economy if he didn't lighten up on the Kurds to set the stage for the Pence mission. Pence then could make a side deal with Erdogan to achieve a cease-fire that he could claim was a direct result of Trump's letter.
Erdogan gets a free hand to ethnically cleanse the Kurds from Syria/Turkey and Trump get's to look like the tough but (tiny) cool hand, decisive commander-in-chief he sees himself to be. You know, like our last real President, Barack Obama.
The Turks and their mercenaries failed to capture Ras al Ain and are experiencing a military setback from the Kurds in other towns as well, leaving Turkey in control of just uninhabited desert.
More broadly, Turkey has been check-mated by the appearance of Russian troops. Not even that megalomaniac buffoon of Erdogan will dare take on Russia.
This cease-fire shows that Erdogan realizes how weak he suddenly is, a week into his murderous, misguided Syrian adventure.
2
Plain and simple, Pence and Pompeo have lost all self-respect and continue to diminish the standing of the offices held. Negotiations are to have all parties at the table. Where were the Kurds? Who will bring the news to the Kurds? The released ISIS fighters, what about them? Only someone living in an alternate world can believe that the terrorists will ONLY return to the country of origin....and, further, this administration has absolutely no foreign policy. The devil is in the detail!
1
Trump thanks Erdogan; Alice through the looking glass.
Our country is in a deep, dark hole.
Help!
1
Wait for it. The tweet-storms are coming. Pence getting credit for the cease-firing. A storms ‘a brewing.
3
"Great news out of Turkey" would be that Turkish troops are withdrawing from Syria, not that Kurdish troops are supposed to leave this part of Kurdistan. Have the Kurds agreed to it?
This war, started by Trump and Erdogan, has resulted in Turkish aggrandizement.
It is not the Kurds or the YPG or even the PKK who are the terrorists. It is the Turkey that is a terrorist state. They have performed the Armenian genocide,Which they refused to acknowledge, and massacred and oppressed the Kurds in Turkey. Not to mention all their Turkish citizens who have been imprisoned because of the fake crime of "Gulenism."
Has Russia, Iran or Syria agreed to this? Who will protect the Kurds? Will the 300,000 civilians who have fled feel comfortable returning?
Trump made a mess with Erdogan, and this is a feeble attempt to clean up.
2
An avoidable disaster created by Trump whose "strong leadership" has supposedly allowed the Kurds who are still alive to run, who knows where, and give up their land to Turkey. In the meanwhile we had to blow up our own base. How long are we going to leave our nuclear weapons in Turkey Donald?
Sounds like Pence is getting a tryout. Can't throw the captain overboard unless the first officer is able to steady the ship.
1
Plenty of time to resupply and solidify your positions before you resume the attack... nicely done Turkey.
Hopefully we were able to destroy the rest of our own bases too...
1
A band-aid won’t stop the bleeding long-term. Trump creates a problem, then becomes the “big hero” by “solving the problem.” It’s like some odd variation of Munchausen by Proxy. We saw the writing on the wall during his inauguration speech. The man is not well, nor is he fit for office, not to mention the obvious.
1
Kurdish fighters now have 120 hours to leave a safe zone reaching about 20 miles south of Turkey’s border with Syria.
And go where?
Away from their hard-fought for homeland into unwelcome Syrian territory.
What kind of solution is that? For whom?
Where do we go to get our reputation back?
3
Wait a second. Erdogan agrees to stop bombing the Kurds if they withdraw from all their territory? In other words, "we won't bomb them if we get all we wanted in the first place." What tremendous diplomacy by Pence and Trump! Stop the bombing, the Kurds capitulate completely, and everyone is happy. These guys are geniuses.
4
Seems a lot like total and utter capitulation to Turkey. How can GOP senators be stomaching this?
2
I'm sure this is great comfort to the families of the dead Kurds, to the people who lost everything.
I expect that Trump figured none of us would pay any attention to what was happening over there when he pulled out. Just as he was surprised that American citizens didn't like taking babies from their parents and putting them in cages, he was surprised by the backlash of this decision as well.
He sent Pence over there to grovel and beg Erdogan to help him save face. If republicans in Congress hadn't turned on him, he would have left everyone over there to die and not lost a minute of sleep over it.
Trump encouraged an arsonist to torch the Kurdish homeland, forbade the intervention of firemen, then deeded the homeland to the arsonist. Shame on those who have supported and enabled the reckless, self-intrested behavior of this man.
"We got what we want ... so we'll pretend to stop for ... is 5 day's enough for him to change the subject? ... OK, lets call it a 5 day cease fire" ...
1
Pence moment a good optic of AMERICAN diplomacy.
Congrats to Turkey, Syria, Russia, sunni militias, Iran and Hezbollah. They outsmarted us.
2
Let me understand this. We accept Turkeys invasion of Syria, the death of hundreds if not thousands of our allies, their displacement. We lift all sanctions on Turkey. Only in Trump world would we consider this a Deal. Reminds me of Nevil Chamberlain’s, “ Peace in our time.” Deal with another dictator in the last century. As an American I hang my head in SHAME.
1
Right, the Kurds are being gotten out of the way. Nice going, Trump. You trumped 'em, again. Accolades!
1
Turkey is using Arab al Qaeda and ISIS militias to kill Kurds. All part of Trump’s grand plan.
1
Right, the Kurds are being gotten out of the way. Nice going, Trump. You trumped 'em, again. Accolades!
Trump's letter sent to Turkish President Erdogan was a mish-mosh of used tweets and gibberish. It is an embarrassment that the president of the United States writes at the level of a 6-year old child.
The sooner Trump is no longer president, the better off the entire world will be.
2
Sigh. Pence. Pompeo.
Says Pence; "One week ago Turkish forces crossed into Syria. earlier this week President Trump took decisive action... , to end the violence." Seems to be a missed step in there . . .
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas! ( TS Eliot)
we wouldn't have needed a cease fire to do
minimum salvage of the mess Trump created to begin with. Wake up MAGA people.
"You know that mess I created? I fixed it. Now, let's never speak of this again."
Son of a gun, that amateurish letter of Trump kind of sort of seems to have worked. Erdogan must have misread it.
Peace Mr. Pence? I have a deed to a bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn I can sell you on the cheap!
1
Sounds like a “declare victory and get out” aka surrender. Oh, but Turkey does get slap on the hand. MAGA???
Wow, what a magic trick! Trump sends his lackeys over to Turkey to negotiate with Erdogan a (temporary) halt to the very conflagration he initiated. He'll apparently sanction any manner of horrors, casualties, and deaths to earn that Noble Peace Prize.
1
Trump green-lit Turkey's invasion causing death, destruction and thousands of refugees. Now they announce a phony cease-fire without Russian or Syrian agreement to create a fig-leaf for Trump to say that he's somehow got a victory. Unending lies and corruption!
This is an accomplishment? No, this is a further pusillanimous betrayal of the Kurds and servile appeasement of the Turkish dictator. Our country is being wreathed in shame by Trump, Pence and Pompeo.
The Turkish foreign minister says this is not a cease-fire.
When Erdogan is tried for war crimes, Mike Pence and Donald Trump should be tried right alongside him.
At least the administration that created the crisis, the invasion by Turkey, came up with a solution.
(For some reason 1938 Munich keeps popping into my head)
I quite frankly do not care who controls Northern Syria.
1
When you break it and innocent people die, then claim to fix it with a phony & temporary cease fire this is no win, unless you’re cra-cra
How did it take Pence five hours to give Erdogan everything he wanted? Did he cook everyone a Beef Wellington first?
People, let’s stop these crocodile tears, more than a million civilians died since bush declared iraq war on fake intel, remember the yellow powder uranium in niger incident? Neocons created this mess, deaths etc. we got no one but ourselves to blame because we let neocons and cheney control the us foreign policy for so long, while public slept and believed the biased, propaganda machine media, yes media always was in it to help government policies, trump for once is right that media is corrupt. These wars happened. Afganistan war was correct, but iraq, no. On top of that, our government trained and armed a known terrorist group, irony in that, they were declared terrorists by our own state department! This was long before trump became president.
I know most people are simple, do not want details, or read books, believe the media but devil is in the details.
“ The President named the PKK as a significant foreign narcotics trafficker under the Kingpin Act in May 2008 for its 20-year history of using its European network to produce, transport, and traffic opiates and cannabis. On October 14, 2009 and April 20, 2011, Treasury designated a total of eight PKK leaders pursuant to the Kingpin Act. Drug trafficking is one of the PKK’s most lucrative criminal activities and it uses the illicit proceeds to obtain weapons and materials. The State Department designated the PKK as a Foreign Terrorist Organization in 1997, and as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist in 2001 “
2
As much as I enjoy being called simple by somebody with such a remarkable grasp of basic sentence mechanics, this actually is pretty simple: we ran out on an ally that lost 11, 000 killed to help us, and we ran out on the order of a dimwit greedhead who’s flailing around looking for a way out.
And in so doing, we benefitted one actual dictator, one right-wing theocracy, and two “authoritarian,” clowns who’re twisting their democracies so that they can loot their countries.
1
@Geronimo
I hope you are not Turkish. Because seeing reality very objective like this from someone else who is not Turkish is really rare . I wish everyone could see the reality as you do. Turkey is not attacking Kurds. As a matter of fact more than 20 million Kurdish people are living in Turkey peacefully. As you mentioned this is an operation against terrorist organization who have killed more than 50 K people over the years.
4
VP Pence looked downright presidential. Bring on the impeachment!
SO Trump now takes credit as a hero.
Millions of lives will be saved!
Reality? Tens of thousands of Kurdish fighters and their families will now have to abandon the homes and economies they have built ... with our aid.
But yeah, that was three weeks ago. Trump needed to snap his fingers and get that campaign promise done.
10
What has changed? The Kurdish people who have been killed are still dead. The Kurdish people who have been misplaced are on the move. The rest of the Kurds are being given a short respite from being murdered while the prepare to flea. Turkey and others (Putin’s Russia) will join Erdogan and whomever else they invite to take over in Syria. Assad is alive and well, while Erdogan and Putin want him to be. We are bombing our own military bases to get rid of them. But the largest travesty of all is that ISIS will now have everything they need to regroup and attack. Attack whom? Trump doesn’t want to be involved. We will be involved when ISIS attacks us, and anyone else in the world they can reach with the help of Turkey and Russia.
Trump is living in an alternate world.
338
@Wanda. So exactly how long do you want our nation to be at war? Where is NATO and all the money we pay? Where are other nations militaries? So it's permanently up the America to send money and young men and women to be killed with no help from anyone else?
3
@Wanda
Crude, racist Trump has good instincts relative to the Establishment's beloved Forever War.
Trump campaigned on "bringing the troops home" and he hopefully he will withstand the fury of the Establishment, its media. the Washington Foreign Policy Establishment and the Military Industrial Complex.
The "Powers-That-Be" are desperately trying to control the world, with all other countries subservient.
Trump knows the Forever War is ridiculous, with no benefit to the American people.
Cheers to Trump if he can get our troops out!
People are going to whine about ISIS regrouping, but ISIS is a US creation.
As Secretary of State, John Kerry said on a leaked audio that the US was WATCHING ISIS grow, and that it might be useful in removing Assad.
google John Kerry leaked audio and take your pick of sources
I fear that ISIS has become a tool of the US to use as an excuse to put its military wherever.
The Powers-That-Be would love nothing more than to get ISIS into Russia, so they've got to keep them alive...
US foreign policy is ridiculous, but dangerous.
The US needs to start learning to get along.
2
@Ouch So exactly how many Kurdish deaths is it ok to be responsible for this month. Our servicemen and women who were swept from Syria, it is reported, are bereft to leave the Kurds they have fought beside to die. What Trump has done is set the stage for immediate ( after however many days of cease fire) carnage. Remember he has lots of Trump real estate in Turkey. Is Assad going to be able to continue his extermination’s. Will Erdogan and Putin kill him, or let him join them. And Kim Jung Un isn’t going to sit quietly and let all of this media attention exclude him. Should we get rid of the free militarized zone and get our soldiers home so that ‘UN’ can nuke South Korea and Japan. How far to figure that is from our mainland? How do you feel about the thousands of our troops who have been recently sent by Trump to protect his friends the civilized Saudis. To answer your question, I don’t want War. But I am not an isolationist as you seem to be. That will only cause more deaths. There is no more ‘your war,’ and ‘my war.’ The Globe has shrunk. It better become “the best resolution for peace for ALL”, or no one will be left. I hear you. I bet you are just fine with the thousands of innocents we still have in cages, and subscribe to keeping all of the guns you want in your home- for when that lone intruder shows up. Etc. etc.
8
I'm certain this deal will endear the Kurds to their U.S. "allies" for the remainder of time -- not.
5
@A. Stanton, if only a dollar for every ethnic minority against the world.
Since Pence is over there cleaning up Trump's mess, is he making arrangements to secure or remove the 50 nuclear weapons? Or will they be Turkey's prize for cooperating?
7
@Debbie
They are useless to Turkey. They cannot be armed without America assist. Unless we give them the codes those 50 nukes are just hunks of metal. Of course we should get them out. But that was as true when Kashoggi was killed and no one was critical of Erdogan then. Or have you forgot how much in love many here were with him when he was the 'good guy' in that incident?
@Debbie Why would Turkey need those nukes with which they protected Europe for the last 50 years. Hmmm. Turkey can build nukes within days to weeks if need to. Thats how much west appreciates its ally NATO member Turkey and instead of continuing that support people are supporting some terror Kurdish PKK groups (who also deal heroin throughtou Europe to fund their terror campaign) disguised under different name in Syria. USA simply used those kurdish people in hope of destabilizing Syria not because of some relationship.
3
Getting a 120 hour cease-fire deal BEFORE our troops were pulled would have rightly been described as a negotiation (not a good one, mind you, but a negotiation none the less). After the fact, one has to wonder what Trump has just given away so he could save face with this too-little, too-late "deal."
2
Trump taking this as a political win, but I wonder long-term implications for the area given China’s BRI
I find it hard to believe that Trump's self-congratulation on this "victory" means that he thinks he has salvaged his own reputation.
I suspect that the essence of the victory was that he pushed Pence up to the lectern and made him look presidential so that Trump can negotiate a deal to slink back into the pit he actually prefers over the White House.
2
Classic Trump—he creates a crisis, then solves it—claiming great victory and brilliance when he gets personal net gain while our country get let loss. Whenever his policies don’t make sense, we need only ask, did the policy benefit him personally? Surprise!—the answer is yes, again...
12
“Solves” in quotes of course.
Too bad Trump was unable or unwilling to use US presidential influence on a fellow NATO member to avoid the bloodshed he unleashed and damage to our reputation and influence. I firmly believe he thought leaving this important region in the Mideast would appeal to his base as "another promise kept" as well as make Putin happy. Soon Trump will be relegated to dark chapters in history books. His big fear now - will Pence pardon him.
3
But the US Military already started destroying its infrastructure in retreat.
Such a crime.
How is Pence going to call back a nuclear strike?
That's only mildly hyperbolic when you think about it.
2
So, the US will help Turkey in removing the Kurds, their allies until just recently, from an area in the sovereign country of Syria, allowing both an unwarranted invasion and the betrayal of their allies in one move. At the same time, they’ve given Assad one-third of Syria back by forcing the Kurds to ally with him, whom they now apparently trust over Trump. And they gave Russia and Iran a stronger position in the Middle East. By whose standards is that not a mess of enormous proportions?
4
A normal, thinking president would have imposed a cease-fire and all the rest during the initial call or shortly afterwards. Then at least some of this scrambling could have been avoided. And maybe we wouldn’t have had to blow up our base in Syria to keep Assad from getting our equipment. But since our president has the mentality of a 10-year-old, here we are. Just abysmal.
1
The Trump-Turkey deal betrays the Kurds and gives Turkey what it wanted—a 20-mile Kurd-free border with Syria.
11
Oh, yeah! Really, "'Great news out of Turkey"!! Trump has now arranged to give Turkey the entire 20 mile buffer zone they wanted without firing another shot as long as the Kurds, our former ally, agree to give it up without a fight. Another great deal for Turkey; another great betrayal of the Kurds. If I were a Kurd, I would greet this "great news" with a few unprintable words. This is their homeland; they are Syrian citizens; will they and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad agree to this? I suspect as in 1938 when the leader of a western democracy agreed to hand over a similar buffer territory in a third nation to a ruthless dictator and proclaimed "Peace in our time!" that history will repeat itself.
6
Has anybody yet seen the pictures of the Kurdish children that have been killed by Turkey during these past days? It absolutely broke my heart. And there is absolutely no way tRump, Pence, et al., can every redeem themselves.
5
The Trump Administration in all matters is the proverbial dog that vomits on the carpet only to return to the scene and eat it up later.
Sure, some of the mess is gone but there’s still a stain to clean up.
4
It is a little too late for the people who already died this week as a result of Donald's and Erdogan's manufactured crisis.
4
"Mike Pence brokers deal with Turkey, signalling his fitness to Republicans scrambling for an alternative" - what this article should have said.
3
Anybody else think the Agence France-Presse photographer composed the photo of Pence and Erdogan to make it look like the VP was wearing a dunce cap? Very funny and appropriate.
1
Pence is a toady of limited intelligence and even less integrity, and Pompeo is the worst West Point graduate since the seditious Robert E. Lee. Indeed, their primary loyalty is to Trump, secondarily to the GOP, outing their oaths of office last or turning them into still another lie.
3
Geniuses of the Left, you rail about American militarism and complain when a Republican President does what the Left claimed it wanted. Remember, Obama’s position on Syria? Do you want us to kill thousands (many of you still whine about Iraqis killed) of a NATO ally? Should we just use nuclear weapons or sacrifice American soldiers?
Let me be clear, I would publicly warn each country in the Middle East about messing with the US. The first country that offended our interests would receive five tactical nukes in their five largest cities. The world would howl, but the point would be made. The World Court has no authority over the US. Until you are ready to deal with the body bags control your calls for our continued involvement in the Middle East. We should protect our interests, but we have paid too much for too long.
2
@Matthew
I saw a lot of Republicans pushing back on this. Are they "the Left" as well? The US, by Trump's idiotic and ill considered actions, has made itself look weaker - and is.
1
Turkey’s Foreign Minister just tweeted:
“This is not a ceasefire.”
2
“Millions” of lives, he says. Millions. More of his truthful hyperbole, one supposes.
1
Kurdish residents have five days to clear out of their own homes and leave the region, or they will likely die. I believe the term for that is "ethnic cleansing."
This is a diplomatic victory, indeed...for Tayyip Erdogan.
5
Then its official, the Trump Administration is a collaborator in the ethnic cleansing campaign launched by Erdogan's Turkey.
Pence is announcing that the Kurds have 120 hours to leave the area, leaving behind their villages, fields and houses.
If this is not a crime against humanity, then what is it?
1
Where will the Kurds go?
1
Too bad the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded last week.
1
Pence announces ceasefire?
I thought “the USA had nothing to with this fighting” quoting Trump
3
what a joke. this deal rewards the aggressor and his murderous thugs and makes the rightful citizens of the area move. this sounds like another horrible Trump deal selling out US values on Democracy in order to comfort another Authoritarian leader.
1
OMG!!! We are living in an alternate universe.
"He did a terrific thing. He's a leader." -- Trump on Erdogan just now
3
"United States facilitated the withdrawal of the Kurdish-led Y.P.G. militia from affected areas".
This is where Syria starts to resemble the US evacuation from Saigon with helicopters scurrying everywhere plucking people from where ever.
Does the administration have a place to put the Kurd's? Northern Iraq doesn't seem like a very good idea. It's also unlikely that Trump will want to accept them with open arms into our country.
It would be nice to know if anyone has spent even 10 minutes thinking about this.
11
@Bill, I agree! My first question was “where are the Kurds supposed to go? It looks as if there are forces hostile to them all around.
1
@Bill "Millions of lives will be saved"; Really!
If millions of lives will be saved, why would you authorize an operation that had the potential to end millions of lives?
9
Trump started this mess when, apparently, the various parties may have been willing to negotiate. He made a big deal of getting out of Turkish/Syrian/Kurdish affairs and then sent three of his people over to help clean up his mess. Besides smelling a land grab here, I am wondering how the Kurds were represented in the process. Will they just take the next train out of town? Seems unlikely.
7
I wholeheartedly endorse removing US troops from the Middle East. But, as demonstrated this week, doing so without a plan quickly ends in more bloodshed, harm to long-term objectives such as destroying ISIS, etc. Doesn't take a genius, stable or otherwise, to determine that a deal such as this, at minimum, should be negotiated BEFORE withdrawing our troops. Sorry, Pence and crew, you get no plaudits for a temporary halt to a disaster you created.
17
I never thought I would see the President of the United States sell out our country and our values to the Russians, Turks, Syrians, Saudis and Iranians.
I wish I could say I am in shock, but I am so numb to the day to day disrespect for democracy that the Trump administration enacts on beliefs of freedom and our constitution. And still the Republicans in the house and senate enable this behavior.
I’ve never felt so helpless. 
26
We won’t mention that the remaining, potentially pinned US troops can also now presumably leave unhindered, not that I think anyone was going to bother them much anyway. And the nukes that may or may not be at Incirlik can be extracted. Sshhh.
5
So is it me or shouldn't there have been others in this agreement, like Syria and Russia? Now that Kurds have died, I doubt this is a 'cease-fire,' and Turkey will likely respond to the retaliation that they deserve.
Pence and Pompeo should have clarified that the Kurds are not a terrorist organization but allies of America. “American officials also understood Turkey’s concerns about the Kurdish fighters, whom they regard as part of a terror group.” I understand how Erdogan sees the Kurds, but they are our allies. And he needs to know that.
5
Trump starts fire.
Trump claims fire is fine with him.
Trump finally feels the heat, sends someone to put out fire.
Trump demands "fireman of the year" award.
31
What a great deal! A cease fire allowing our former allies, the Kurds, who, let's be honest, are no angels, to withdraw from the territory they fought for giving a safe zone to Erdogan who should now be known as a great guy, not a tough guy for his invasion!
5
Pay no attention to the man in front of the curtain pretending that 120 hour ceasefire is an amazing, historic victory.
5
Although the cease-fire is certainly welcome, let us not forget that Pence and Pompeo were sent to Turkey to put out a fire that was ignited by the impulsive and reckless action of Donald Trump.
8
So, the Turks are giving the Kurds five days to tuck tail and run?
Am I the only who doesn't see that happening?
But of course Trump can say, "I tried, but those Kurds are not reasonable."
Shame on him.
12
Here's what I don't understand. Trump ignorantly and impulsively made decisions which led to disastrous results which were threatening to spiral out of control. His ridiculous letter and subsequent juvenile insults and taunts were only making matters worse. But apparently, Pence was able to step in and work out a diplomatic compromise. Why aren't the Republican open to letting Trump be impeached and removed from office so that Pence can step in and run the office with at least a modicum of competency? Not that I would ever want Pence to be President, but I don't understand why the Republicans are also reluctant to do so.
3
Why isn’t the “President” announcing this? Shouldn’t he be giving a play-by-play on a situation he created like he did for the Hurricane attacking Alabama?
4
A deal giving the Kurds five days to withdraw is essentially a deal giving them five days to surrender. The Turks had already given them the option of giving up the territory which they held. This is lipstick on a pig.
It's unfortunate that Fred Trump didn't withdraw.
20
Will the Kurds go gently within 5 days? As the self described omnipotent and omniscient Trump would say: we'll see what happens, mkay??
2
So our so called "president' can claim a victory by getting a 5 day cease fire. This will allow Kurdish troops to leave, but what about the Kurds stick in Syrian territory? When their protectors leave, Turkey and Syria will continue with their ethnic cleansing.
By the way, a lot of this could have been avoided if our so called "president" and "vice president" would have negotiated for the Kudrs (civilian and military) to leave, when US troops left.
By the way, what about the 50 or so nuke snow at Incirlik, when is the US going to pull those out? Or did our so called "president" give them to Erdogon?
4
Who do you negotiate a cease-fire without one of the opponent at the table? This is a complete abdication to Turkey's demands from the WH. Nothing has changed.
6
Cowardly and Means Nothing to the Kurds or Syria. A negotiation from weakness and political expedience.
2
Trump digs a deep hole that endangers everyone, shovels a handful of dirt back in and proclaims victory and expects gratitude (it is a "...great day for Kurds.")
This is the GOP. Vote for these criminals at your own risk.
1
Did Pence also get our military bases back from the Russians? Or get the Kurds to unpartner with the Russians and go back to being our partners? And round up all those ISIS fighters and put them back in prison? And bring all those Kurds back to life?
639
@kauff Good points, all. Did Pence also un-blowup the American base(s) that we destroyed to keep them from being used by Russians?
31
@kauff More than 40.000 Turkish people died by PKK/YPG attacks. We made this operation to stop this massacares once and for all. You will never understand Turkish people unless your people die by the hands of terrorists.
2
@kauff I took the liberty of copying your comment to Southern Boy who apparently thinks that all is well thanks to Mr. Pence. I could not have expressed the terrible costs of this trumpian whim any better than you have.
8
The U.S., which through its so-called prsident claimed it would never forget the Kurds, just negotiated their surrender. Some ally.
6
Great. So Turkey agreed to stop shooting at the Kurds if they agree to their terms and evacuate outside the Turkish self-declared buffer zone. Quite a diplomatic breakthrough for Pence and his team. Hopefully the Trump administration will negotiate a similar surrender in the impeachment hearings and Trump will resign.
13
So the US withdrew its peace-keeping troops, Turkey invaded and bombed the Kurds in Syria, which made the Syrian and Russian government take over part of the region, and now Turkey once again backs the pre-existing cease-fire, except that our allies the Kurds will now be gone and replaced by our enemies, the Russians/Iranians.
Can anybody explain how this is supposed to be good news?
11
The Kurds won't leave. You need two parties to negotiate. If they leave it is just a surrender.
1
@Jon They ran for safety days ago. When Turks come you better run.
1
I'm sure it was Trump's thoughtful letter that convinced Erdogan not to be a tough guy.
Or maybe Erdogan got what he wanted: American troops out of the way. Once the furor in America dies down, Turkish troops can go back on the offensive.
3
This is our Munich. The “agreement”. With Turkey is that the Kurds (and the U.S.) agree to withdraw from the Turks’ self-proclaimed “safe zone,” and the Turks will agree not to engage in any further incursions “for now.” I never thought I would see the day when the President of the United States would channel Neville Chamberlain in foreign affairs. This is not only shameful, it will have a huge cost in blood for the U.S.
11
Turkish press reported that Mr. Erdogan
dumped the letter in garbage can. Mr. Trump
should realize that persuasion produces more
desirable results than threats and disrespect.
Before every negotiation with China he threatened to raise tariff, hoping China will capitulate. Now he has done the same with Turkey. Would he ever learn from his mistakes? Seems unlikely. Why did he give green signal to
Erdogan in phone conversation to go ahead
with his invasion? Now he is issuing threats.
Four more years of Mr. Trump, USA will be in
the history book as a world power.
3
What happens to all the US nuclear weapons that are still in Syria? Does Erdogan get those? Was that the deal?
4
I clearly am getting older. I don't understand. Trump is NOW the HERO because Erdogan has agreed to a cease fire with America?
Did Syria/Assad or the Kurds agree to this as well? Were they at this diplomatic meeting? Where are the Kurds withdrawing to?
Trump is the one who started this whole mess in the first place.
The Cease-Fire is so convoluted and smells to high heaven.
What is going on really?
11
Sadly the trump era is marked by doublespeak.
1
Where do the Kurds go? That seems to be an important and missing piece of this “deal”!
8
This is a second betrayal! It is not ceasefire, the US just wants the Kurds to surrender to Turkey and leave. They have all their main cities in the border region. Why should they just surrender their homeland to an aggressive enemy? Trump-Pence will try to spin this as a victory while it is actually selling out the Kurds to Erdogan. The media and public should not buy this!
4
Erdogan did not do this out of the goodness of his heart. What did Mike Pence give him? (I doubt very much it involved sanctions)
2
There.
See how easy this was?
3
Oh no, this can't be right. This looks like a success. Change this immediately! This does not fit the narrative.
2
Fixing a problem one has caused is not a success. ESPECIALLY since the Kurds are still worse off now than before. Honestly, what made you think this was an improvement?
1
If a one sided cease-fire agreement (I’ve never heard of such a thing) is your definition of success, then yes.
The Turks got what they wanted. The Russians got what they wanted. The U.S. got dishonor.
3
Too nice of us: We dump the the Kurds and then go out of our way to negotiate their surrender. Did we ask their opinion?
I am impressed.
2
Let me guess. Now take credit for putting out the very fire you started? People - ignore this, ignore the G7 at the Trump Resort. He is acting out and trying to set diversion fires to get your eyes off of what he is doing. Keep your eye on the ball.
3
Once again, a world leader has snookered our 'brilliant' president and his minions. Does anyone really believe the Kurds are just going to walk away? The timing is militarily convenient for Turkey to consolidate gains and group for another push. Pence is sucker enough (and ignorant of military tactics) to believe this is progress towards a settlement. Good luck with that. He will be eating crow in five days time.
5
Mr Trump and his follows can call this whatever they want, but in reality it is a loss, a tragedy, and embarrassment, and a disgrace.
12
CNN is reporting that, what a coincidence, 120 hours is when a scheduled meeting occurs between Erdogan and Putin.
It is vitally important for the NYT to look deep into all the implications.
Where are the Kurds supposed to go? This handed the win to Turkey and Russia.
Meanwhile, all sanctions are off the Turks, most meaningful being the ones on specific people.
And this Christian First makes a show for his great leader. Sickening.
8
Be on the lookout for Syria making "peace" with Israel. Once the Alawites reestablish full control, they'll be willing to broker a deal. It's all part of Jared's master plan.
1
Hope kurds reject this surrender.
Trump foreign policy:
Green light, red light, forget diplomacy
While they are congratulating themselves for the best ceasefire never been seen before let’s think of the dead Kurds, the frightened children fleeing, the traumatized mothers, fathers and others who in a Trumpian second went from somewhat secure to absolute terror. The best American terror ever.
308
@Agent 99 this is not against kurds, this is about PKK, YPG. Declared by us state department as terrorist, and treasury dept also. I would suggest to point your anger towards neocons who are the real reason why middle east is in chaos now. With Fake intel, we had iraq war. Then this syria war.
“The Department of State has reviewed and maintained the Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) designation of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), pursuant to Section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), as amended (8 U.S.C. § 1189). The PKK was originally designated as an FTO in 1997.”
“The President named the PKK as a significant foreign narcotics trafficker under the Kingpin Act in May 2008 for its 20-year history of using its European network to produce, transport, and traffic opiates and cannabis. On October 14, 2009 and April 20, 2011, Treasury designated a total of eight PKK leaders pursuant to the Kingpin Act. Drug trafficking is one of the PKK’s most lucrative criminal activities and it uses the illicit proceeds to obtain weapons and materials. The State Department designated the PKK as a Foreign Terrorist Organization in 1997, and as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist in 2001 pursuant to Executive Order 13224.”
4
@Agent 99
And the contingent of US troops dodging Turkish bombardments during their unplanned escape.
2
@Agent 99 and the Kurds now having time to regroup and fully join on with Assad's forces. Assad, of course, isn't just going to sit by as Turkey annexes part of his country.
1
Did the US just concede part of the Kurds’ territory to Turkey? Have the Kurds agreed to this? They weren’t in the room. Interesting negotiating technique.
573
@Martini kurds got those cities after arabian population went to turkey, west... actually sdf forced them to leave. eh you know we gave them quiet good "armory"
4
@Martini
Just like Golan Heights and Syria which Trump also presumed to give away (to Israel).
13
Definitely a chamberlain if I ever saw one
8
A cease-fire so they can leave to go where? This sounds totally half-baked and has all the makings of a drawn-out conflict created by us.
367
Yes, this is the problem. Where do the Kurd's go? They are being told they have no homeland, no place to be. Turkey will stop massacring them, but ethnic cleansing will still continue--just in a different form. How is this an answer?
2
@Guillermo
Well, Guillermo, You and 999 of your closest friends and relatives are free to travel their and put yourself between those Kurds and the Turks anytime you want. Go tomorrow if you wish. Or do you just want others to stand in harm's way forever?
4
@GregP The Kurds put their life on the line to stop ISIS. The presence we had in the region helped prevent this from happening and cost us little. We didn't need to go out in fight or risk much. Our military was training and helping with coordination but the Kurds took the on most of the fighting. Even military members are appalled of our actions to pull out. The pros far out weighed the cons and now ISIS has a change to regroup and build capacity. We are all in harms way bc of this decision
7
Grateful that Vice President Pence has successfully negotiated a cessation, and hopefully deescalation can occur peacefully, however unlikely that seems at the moment. It also appears that as President Trump continues to spiral in his commitment to shift responsibility and blame regarding his numerous mistakes and decisions lately, it is smart to move Pence toward a leading role in foreign affairs. Might be good preparation for him.
Geo-politically, the United States and western allies have lost a significant position in Syria and openly betrayed our Kurdish allies, endangering them and costing innocent lives. Outside that immediate betrayal, I speculate that over time, and to a larger degree, this transition of influence in the region will cause additional ramifications to United States interests and national security.
11
@Brian Adkins Not sure why Pence needs more experience on a global stage to prepare for his future in local Indiana politics.
2
How does this cease-fire work? Are the Kurds agreeing to these terms? You cannot have a cease-fire agreement that excludes one side of the battle from the negotiations! I don't see the Kurds leaving Syria without a fight, especially since they are working with the assistance of the Syrian Army and Russia.
24
So Turkey is giving the Kurds 120 hours to vacate 3000 square miles of their land. Did the Kurds sign off on this? How can a peace be negotiated between two warring factions if one faction does not participate in the agreement? Even if the Kurds go along with it, we basically sold them out to Turkey. Where are these many thousands of people supposed to go?
Turkey originally stated that they wanted to move millions of Syrian Arab refugees back into this region. Are they still going to do that? Pence didn't say anything about that issue.
I hope the ceasefire holds, but I doubt it. The Kurds may very well use it as a means to regroup and stage a counter attack. Let's see what Turkey does with the refugees. This isn't over. Nothing in the Middle East can be settled with one meeting.
111
@Bruce Rozenblit "Nothing in the Middle East can be settled with one meeting" I don't know - was Jared there?
1
So it appears that Turkey is willing to negotiate about the Kurds. So why wasn't this done before Trump agreed to withdraw our troops and let Turkey enter Syria unopposed? His ad hoc method of governing still doesn't benefit the US, but it surely benefits Syria and Russia.
89
On October 6th, 2019, President Donald Trump ordered the removal of less than 100 (?) American Special Forces who had been stationed in Syria. These are the same Special Forces who fought side by side with brave Kurdish (men and women) soldiers against ISIS. This opened the door to Syrian and Russian soldiers to bombard the Kurds. He could have left a few dozen Green Berets, and in doing so, it is highly unlikely any of this would have occurred. He is a loose cannon; a loose cannon with no wheels, simply rolling on the deck ready to go off at any moment. It reminds me of a firecracker you lit the fuse on; then the fuse burns down, but it doesn't explode. You don't want to get near it, because it could go off at any moment. This is the best scenario I can think of at the moment. I should add, the best which is "printable in this publication".
1
Too little, too late. The U.S. is no longer a player in the Middle East except maybe as a supporter of Israel. The Russians and Iranians are now in charge.
74
@Mike F. Since Russia already has a naval base in Syria (for 20+ years), this is a nonstory.
The Syrians were always agents of Iran and Iran is Russia's largest proxy in the region, which is why it was strange Obama handed over $150 billion in cash knowing this was just going to make it easier for Russia to do whatever they wanted in the region.
Was Obama a Russian agent?
Evidence strongly suggests that's the case..but only if you're looking at facts.
Don’t forget Trump just sent another 2000 troops to Saudi Arabia for his and Jared’s buddy, MBS who is responsible for the dismemberment of a legal resident of the US.
2
@Mike F. ... About time America realizes it's a new world and that regional powers must be forced to take over this 'wars without end'. Trump's solution can used in Afghanistan. As long as we can apply economic sanctions we will be a major player; dominant military power; nope....close the bases and apply the savings to health care expansion, etc.
1
Trump may think he's a magician but I've never seen anyone put the Genie back in the bottle.
25
I wonder what the US had to give Turkey to whitewash this fiasco.
63
5 days cease fire?
Good! use it to get out of the region.
Trust me, it's a cease fire, is not a withdrawal, is not agreement to pull back to their border, or reparations to those they killed.
It's 5 days to fortify positions. 5 days the Syrians and Russians will use to move into front lines.
Get out of Syrian, now. We do not need to be bombarded by everyone because we were dumb enough to stay.
8
@AutumnLeaf
FYI: we weren't bombarding anyone, we were preventing the others from bombarding each other.
Why did we do that?
Because it prevented US enemies Russia, ISIS and Iran from becoming more powerful in the region.
If you want to call that a "dumb" idea, could you please explain why?
1
@AutumnLeaf And certainly dumb enough to ask for the Kurds help in countering ISIS, *which they did* and then pretend that we really cared about them after all the help they gave us.
A Trump, Pence, Pompeo pipedream.
Turkey and US agree to give Turkey a swath of Syria land w/o agreement of Syria.
Oh, by the way, forget about 11,000 lives Kurds and move out.
What deal makers.
91
@John ......perhaps you forgot Obama's vicious campaign to overthrow Assad and his family.....big fat Failure; they negotiated a deal w/Russia and this is the result. Trump pulled Obama's legacy out of the fire of ridicule. A Kurdish 'homeland' is being negotiated; so they will have a place to hang their weapons.
1
So Erdogan gets what he wants and doesn't even have to fight for it?
Can we stab the Kurds in the back on more time??
335
@OneView Exactly. I just wonder why it took five hours to "negotiate" a deal giving Erdogan everything he wanted. I'll bet Rudy could have negotiated this capitulation in five minutes.
14
@Erica Smythe @Erica Smythe Fox News is also pushing this narrative of Trump’s withdrawal being the same thing as Obama’s. You both seem to ignore the fact that, right or wrong, the withdrawals under Obama were done with advance planning, unlike the impulsive childlike act that we just saw with Trump.
2
@Erica Smythe Do I know you? How do you presume to know how I felt about Obama's withdrawal from Iraq.
The arrogance of Trump voter is outrageous.
4
President Pence is announcing a cease fire from Ankara right now.
Proof positive that the humiliated Trump is anxious to resign ... if he can be made the right offer.
15
@Sequel
Er, how do you figure that?
2
@Sequel
If trump resigns and pence becomes president, this executive branch becomes the fulfillment of the Koch "libertarian" plan.
1
The five days will be used to consolidate the area already occupied bring up munitions, other weapons, conduct reconnaissance and fix targeting of Kurd positions nothing more. Thinking otherwise well its Chamberlain at Munich you boys have been played.
33
What did we give away for this 120 hours? An aircraft carrier?
18
@Mark
50 nuclear weapons
5
@Mark, Or maybe a few of those tactical nuclear weapons we have stored at Incirlic Airbase in Turkey?
2
Trump got owned by Erdogan. That's a fact.
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This is not a ceasefire; it is a retreat.
It's incredible that Mike Pence can get in front of the world and so smugly announce completing the sell-out of the Kurds.
Disgusting.
354
@Chris shows how low the US has sunk. An international weakling.
2
@Chris Pence only has one gear: smug self-righteousness.
Just threw up in my mouth watching Pence/Pompeo press conference. Praising Trump for his "strong leadership" is ridiculous like Trump's letter to Erdogan. The US is the laughingstock of the world. When will the madness finally end?
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@B. Lassiter
Then don’t watch Trump’s tarmac talk in Texas that just happened because you will need CPR
8
@B. Lassiter When, indeed. When? Or will it never end? In which case, our democracy is doomed.
4
A few thought on the Pence, Pompeo news conference. #1. Why didn't Trump send Rudy Giuliani along with Pence and Pompeo to the negotiations? #2. Which is the most revolting to hear from Pence: His bringing up the word, "prayer" in this decision or the absolute fondling of Trump for his part in this fiasco?
16
interesting to see Syria, likely a large player in any ceasefire in Syria, absent from this deal. especially given that the negotiation makes demands of the Kurds who are now aligned militarily with Syria's government (who is aligned militarily with Russia).
it boils down to the USA negotiating a compromise for a deal it has no stake in, and likely cannot deliver on because I doubt the USA is in a position to ask for any favors from the Kurds.
should be interesting to see how this one plays out.
28
Who knew courier was faster than making the call? Don'tpeople normally call to say something will follow? This letter takes getting it backwards to a new degree. The president is getting younger and younger by the day.
4
Donald Trump's letter to Recep Tayip Erdogan may be a joke, but the situation in Syria most certainly is not.
Not only that, but it didn't take a genius to realize just how quickly the house of cards would come crashing down there once U.S. troops were no longer part of the picture, especially since Erdogan has been champing at the bit to go after the Kurds for YEARS and wasn't about to waste this chance to flex his military might.
If this president thinks economic sanctions, his favored tool of "diplomacy", is going to do the trick in stopping this cataclysm he has almost single-handedly brought about, he's in for a big surprise.
And regrettably, so is the rest of the world.
25
@N. Smith I believe what you're saying is there are no easy answers or solutions in this region of the world where the tribal instincts of native people's doesn't line up with what the UK and UN mapped post WWII?
Fact is the Kurds, Syrians and Iraqi's and Turks all have their own interests..and somehow thinking 100 of our men and women in uniform standing in the way after our NATO ally said "we're coming in...get out of the way" could prevent bloodshed is insane.
We can't send 100 troops in, let alone 100,000...though I would give Pelosi credit if she presented a bill on the floor of the House for a vote authoriziing use of Military Force in this region..along with the funding.
That would show us that she's serious.
Otherwise this is Trump's call..and she should #SitDownAndLegislate
3
@Erica Smythe
There's no doubt about the fact that there are no easy answers or solutions in this region of the world -- or in any other part of the world, for that.
But please don't mistake my comment as some kind of an endorsement to keep American troops in Syria when it's going to take more than American troops on the ground to bring about some kind of lasting peace.
That said.
I most definitely take umbrage with the way Donald Trump came to the impulsive decision to just pull out from one day to the next, without even informing the Kurds whose sacrifices made any kind of success against ISIS possible.
It's no surprise no one trusts this country anymore.
Another thing.
I'd trust Nancy Pelosi before this president in a heartbeat -- at least she knows how the U.S. Constitution works.
1
@Erica Smythe but the status quo, our 1,000 troops, was preventing Turkey from invading and preventing the slaughter in this region.
You say it was Trump's call to pull out our troops, to pull on that thread that would cause the entire fabric to unravel, but maybe he should have consulted with the generals first, to understand the military implications? He might have learned that we need time and plans to remove our men, and provide that ISIS prisoners be transferred to somewhere safe.
Maybe Trump should have consulted with our allies before making a decision that will have repercussions for them. Trump's decision to withdraw our troops has been condemned everywhere from London to Riyad (but notably not in Moscow).
If this decision is the President's to make, them maybe that President needs to be someone other than Trump.
1
The letter is a perfect letter using only the best words.
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@Atruth Ha! Well said!
2
@Atruth ....and "Millions of lives will be saved"; Really!
2
Nothing that Trump or anyone in our government can do will put a stop the events that Trump has put into play. He has tossed a Molotov cocktail into the oil pit of the middle east. And now he acts like he wants to put out the fires?
I don't buy it.
Yesterday he proudly handed out a letter he had sent to Erdogan, a letter that may as well have been written by a third grader, and proudly offered it as proof that he has been proactive in trying to stop Turkey's aggression.
Call me later and tell me how that is working for you, mister president.
The damage has been done. Probably the most serious damage to our foreign diplomacy in modern history. As long as Trump is our president we will have no credibility. We no longer have authority. What is to stop China from moving on Taiwan or Russia advancing into Europe? Trump has shown he is not a leader who has the capacity of understanding the dynamics of international politics. Worse, Vladimir Putin, Recep Erdogan, Xi Jinping and Kim Jong-un know this and are able to take advantage of Trump's vanity and stupidity.
And there are still Republicans and voters who will defend him to the end of the world. They may not have to wait too long.
It does not bode well for the future of our democracy.
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A highly unusual letter? I bet it was hard to choke out those words between peals of laughter. Is it just me who thought Pence was wearing a dunce cap, and then realized it was the top of a flag?
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@MD I did notice that!
The people of Paris are out in the streets protesting.
The people of Hong Kong are out in the streets protesting
for Democracy. America? Crickets.
Why are Americans not protesting this criminal
"president".
I fear for the western Democracies. America, we need
you to be engaged with the world. Don't retreat into
isolationism. DO something. The world is watching.
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@Greg
In a nation of 300+ million guns, the only safe place is inside. In fact, you're not even safe there.
Crowds I avoid. I even avoid Walmart and movie theaters. Shooters gotta shoot.
People depend on me. I can't just check out.
1
Why all the complaining?! Everything is working according to plan!*
-The Turks get a temporary buffer zone to coordinate the return of their Syrian refugees plus others and help control the EU and American aide money, which is way better than handing over the cash to Assad.
-The Kurds get a little piece of land to control long term; that’s actually not too bad for a group having zero military industrial complex of its own other than willing bodies. They also appear to be unconcerned about Israel’s situation — that’s good for a gold star in my book!
-The Syrians / Kurds under Assad might get to reinvent themselves into something halfway acceptable and what better partner for them to explore this newfound space than the Russians, right? Anyway, Russian submarines have to have someplace warm to go for R&R!
-Where are the Chinese here? What role do they have? The answer would appear to be zero! Best news we’ve heard all week!
So, you see, it’s not all that bad down there in the middle, since the alternative would have been way more death on all sides including American death and, in this case, it wasn’t worth it!
—
*Complaining is part of the plan.
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@William Perrigo
Yes, yes & yes, but it doesn't fit the narrative.
@William Perrigo Do the Kurds get any land under the terms of this brief cease fire? Or does it simply allow them to leave one dangerous area and enter another one, just as dangerous?
For a long time, I thought that Trump was "owned" by Putin, but I no longer think that is the case. I think Trump is simply so naive and easily led that he take the advice from anyone he looks up to and flatters him the right way. He is simply being led, like a sheep, by people he, for one reason or another, likes.
He talks a lot about strength, but there's not many weaker humans alive. He has no plan, he has no other goal than to be admired. Trump is a fool. There are no ways around that.
56
All these dictators remind Trump of his dad and his dad thought him everything he knew.
1
@Truthseeker " Trump is a fool". what
about 62 million who voted for him?
2
Word is, that “letter” ended up in a Turkish garbage pail almost as soon as it was received.
No surprise there.
That act alone speaks volumes.
It reflects how this current White House administration is now and will forever be remembered as:
A yellowish-orange stain eternally wallowing atop the trash heap of world history, albeit with tiny bloody hands.
17
USA policy in the Middle East is based on maintaining order there with Israel as an outpost. American politicians on both the right and left can spare us the groundless sympathy for the Kurds. In an age when alternative sources of energy are known, we are still eyeballing the first opportunities to seize on oil supplies wherever they are in the region. Our presence in Syria is/was rooted in this philosophy.
Apparently nothing can make American senators and representatives get along more in such a polarized era than the fear of Iran gaining an advantage over Israel, and this big stink is only about that, not the Kurds. How ironic can it be that Evangelicals are angry about this, but may not even know the word Kurd exists in the English dictionary.....
In the meantime, Trump's base is as clueless as he is. They simply hate Muslims, nothing more, nothing less....and they don't want America spending money on foreign populations/issues....
….wow! Republicans and Democrats needing campaign funding are now all of a sudden marching against Trump's stance in the Middle East, when he is a known Putin, Kim Jung Un and Erdogan sympathizer, and this should be enough to impeach him and throw him out of office, how ironic...
Shame on you America, put your money where your mouth is come next November 2020
5
Trump greenlighted Turkey’s Syrian invasion and their destruction of our former Kurdish allies. Erdogan will ignore the weak feckless Trump regime.
3
Foreign policy experts to the rescue!
It would be interesting to watch Trump play poker.
First, to begin the game, he would show all his cards to the table.
Second, as the betting began he would then try bluffing.
Third, after losing big time, he would accuse everyone else of cheating.
It would be funny, were it not for the fact that he is dealing, not only with the safety of the Middle East, but with the safety of America.
250
@Paul - you forgot only one thing: Trump would have a couple sycophants with him telling him how great he was playing, and Trump would fire one of them every time he lost.
31
@Paul McGlasson,
The safety of the Middle East and the safety of the United States are not the same thing.
The world is not our responsibility. No one in my family is prepared to die in your war.
So who is going again?
Who is the Commander-in-Chief? Trump, that's who. Why should Erdogan listen to Pence or anyone else when it's Trump who calls the military shots. Unless there's been a total breakdown in the US military chain of command, that is, in which case this is a complete and total mess.
1
@Sherry Cannot help but imagine Trump lecturing Erdogan, had they met, "Don't be a fool!" Prime diplomacy, here.
@Sherry
Excuse me -- But there is a total breakdown in the US military chain of command, and this is a complete and total mess.
3
In hindsight it was a master stroke by Erdogan to buy the S400 from Russia, at the expense of being kicked out of the F35 program (and angering the US).
Given the current situation in northern Syria, US Congress is very likely to implement an embargo on Turkey and will most likely not sell any arms, let alone the F35. And more importantly, by stiking to the deal with the Russians, Erdogan demostrated to Putin that Turkey is no longer an American lap dog but a country Russia can deal with one-on-one.
8
Wouldn't you like to be in Mike Pence's head--No? Me neither, frightening place-- but as his diplomatic mission begins amid smoking shell holes pockmarking the Syrian/Turkish border, he's got to be wondering what gas can Trump will grab for next.
I'm left with two possibilities:
(a) Trump's in league with Putin, and his weirdo letter to Erdogan is a PR attempt to paper over the green light he just gave, or
(b) Trump's a fool, throwing things to see what sticks--- but rather than throwing them at a wall, he's just chucking them in the air willy-nilly, and they're raining down on his own head. The net effect is the same as (a).
36
It’s a).
2
Let me get this straight. Trump kowtows to Erdogan and gives him the OK to slaughter our Kurdish allies. Republicans object. Trump then threatens sanctions on Turkey, which fail to stop the Turkish invasion of Syria. So he sends Erdogan a letter begging "let's make a deal." No wonder the real dictators and strongmen of this world -- Putin, Erdogan, Mohammed Bin Sultan and the Ayatollah Khomeini -- think this reality show despot is really a quivering sap.
71
Khomeini died in 1989, but the general idea is to the point.
6
@Christy , Ayatullah Khomeini has been
dead for years. It is now Ayatullah Khameini
1
Bolton is the good guy in this story and we have to agree with the Russians regarding the tone of the letter.
What a weird world!
163
Erdogan is riding a high popularity wave with his incursion into Syria that enhances his ability to stay in power. In June his representatives running for mayor in both Istanbul and Ankara were defeated, partly because the resentment of the many Syrian refugees in Turkey, as well as a deteriorating economy. His prospects for victory in next year's election were dimming. The Syrian invasion with promise of resettling the refugees in the conquered territories reversed his sliding popularity. A ceasefire would without accomplishing this resettlement would be a clear political disaster for Erdogan, whereas deep resentment over new American sanctions could be channeled away from Erdogan towards the US and EU. I bet he will take the latter route.
7
Anyone watching Trumps recent foreign affairs bumbling would think his playbook is being written by Vladimir Putin. It certainly seems to be playing into Putin’s hand like a dummy hand in a game of Bridge. In one fell swoop Trump has handed Putin Syria and, probably, Turkey as well.
141
Trump laundered Russian money using New York real estate for years after no respectable US bank would put up with his dishonest bankruptcies and business practices. Putin bought and paid for this willing puppet and it is no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention that Trump now dances to Putin’s tune like a marionette on a string.
27
@Scott Mills
Not to mention Ukraine. All part of Putin’s to do list:
1. Interference (Putin wanted to help U.S.investigate 2016 election interference);
2. Ukraine; and
3. Syria.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-j-trumps-syria-fiasco-is-part-of-vladimir-putins-to-do-list
3
And a warm water port.
1
Trump's decision was puzzling in the first place.
The letter was puzzling.
This "diplomatic" mission is puzzling.
Trying to follow Trump's decisions and behaviors is like dealing with a puzzling cryptic crossword.
Only not clever. Not at all.
61
@Econ John Not at all difficult tobread Trump.
He. Made the Turkey move to distract from the impeachment buzz.
Just like he announced an agreement with China to try and boost the market.
He's a transactional guy. He attempts to own the moment. It's not about anything else.
He sent Pence to make it appear he made an effort. He didn't expect the backlash.
Nothing will change in Syria. Turkey has the audio tapes of the killing by the Saudis.
Leaking that audio would put even more pressure on the administration.
Trump is compromised by every leader in the free world. What happened in the Ukraine is his standard modis operandi.
Every leader has dirt on Trump. They know his narcissism means getting ej2ected is all that matters to him.
Trump will do anything at this point. We're sinking deeper into the darkness that is Trump.
7
Not puzzling at all if you stop believing that trump is trying to do what’s good for the US. If instead you accept that he is acting on behalf of Putin, it all becomes very clear and consistent.
1
As much as I applaud their efforts, I just do not see how the USA can think that we can stop the bloodletting that has been going on way before we came into existence, and which will continue way after we leave the region.
Turkey has been a thorn on every one’s side. They themselves are stuck between the muslim Middle East and Europe since the first time a desert people attempted to ride north, and since before Atil and Co rode south. It has been the bridge between two cultures that do not get along, no matter how much ‘inclusivity’ is given. Lately they are NATO but bought Russian missiles and radars, they are Middle East but host US bases. One half is always trying to become more muslim, one more Europe. Talk about a schizophrenic land.
I can see the clerics demanding the president abandon the west and join Iran. And the politicos clamoring for more west and less traditionalism and tribalism.
He had the chance to keep the peace, all he had to do was hold off from invading Syria. But he did.
I fear the only way he will relent is by being beaten back by Russia, Syria and the Kurds.
4
I don’t think your history is great here. Turkey had been stable and relatively peaceful for nearly 100 years.
2
@Dave
100 years peaceful. Sure guy.
I mean, there’s WWII where they waited out to see which side the ball fell before they joined, allying with the Allies, there’s the military coups of the 60’s and 70’s, the PPK causing a head ache since the 70’s, the failed coup a few years back. And of course they are in Syria right now because of a simple issue of what they call a terrorist organization in their country based in Syria, ort what Democrats call, our allies in the region.
And then there was ISIS.
I guess my history is cloudy on the matter, they seem like such a peace loving nation, stable like Finland or Switzerland.
1
By making the American military unreliable - the greatest attribute of weakness - and by virtue of a Commander-in-Chief who is solely motivated by greed, there is no leverage left for America.
Trump's letter was laughable, that sanctions aren't already in place shows just how serious his administration is in ending what they greenlighted. The perversity of this situation is appalling.
114
You know, posing with strongmen is kind of fun--like big time wrestling-- until you realize their punches and body slams are real, like Erdogan's bodyguards pummeling American citizens in Washington DC:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/17/erdogans-bodyguards-in-violent-clash-with-protesters-in-washington-dc
When you give the green light to someone like Tayyip Erdogan, and then try to turn it into a red light with an extremely sophomoric letter that opens with "Let's work out a good deal!" don't be surprised when he balls your letter up and throws it out, and begins blowing up our longstanding allies.
205
@C. Whiting There is a pattern. The current puzzling behaviors are consistent with a sharpie map shown to the press.
Connections in the frontal temporal area of the brain allow us to understand how people think. When those connections fail to function, you show a sharpie map to the press, you give a green light, but do not know it, and you insist on sending out a letter that people will laugh at.
12
@C. Whiting But Trump used TWO exclamation marks in his letter! That should have worked. I know, he should have used CAPS!!!!
4
It's a useless and wasted trip by P&P.
This is just for show so Trump can claim he tried, and Turkey refused.. and thus he throws his hands in the air and walks away.. like he always does (except for his precious wall).
Problem is.. Trump triggered the crisis to begin with.. so he does not get to walk away and blame others.
And as usual.. under pressure.. he not only threw the Kurds under the bus literally ... he is now doing so rhetorically with his every popular go-to meme of "they are not saints either" which in this case is an Erdogan talking point and always has been. So.. did he get the talking point texted to him by Erdogan, or Putin.. that is the open question.
45
You may recall that President Trump’s former top economic adviser, Gary Cohn, twice pulled paperwork off of Trump’s desk that the president was intending to sign to withdraw the United States from trade agreements.
To paraphrase Mr. Trump, “Where is my Gary Cohn?”.
21
Its ridiculous for Turkey to accept ceasefire before accomplishing her goal and that is removing american backed terror Kurdish group PKK hiding behind a different name. Turkey plans to return millions of Syrian refugees back to Syria and they cannot go back as Kurdish terrorists have ethnically cleansed Arabs and other groups from vast piece of Syria taking advantage of Russian and Turkish annihilation of ISIS and other terror groups. Syria should be for Syrians and all refugees should go back with neighboring countries helping in its reconstruction.
6
@kakorako Indeed, what's rediculous is Trump's obvious ignorance of Turkey's intent once US troops were removed. Of course they'd want to go after the Kurd terrorists.
Yet by far the most rediculous (trumping Trump) is Foggy Bottom's utter lack of respect for the Turks--fellow NATO member, as it were.
2
@kakorako
Little early for the glorious Syrian repatriation, don't ya think?
No one knows what's going to happen, but I would put the likelihood of happy, healthy repatriated Syrians living peacefully among the shell holes at around....0.
"So let's stop talkin' falsely now, 'cause the hour is getting late."
1
@kakorako Turkey is agreeing to a cease fire to allow the Kurds to withdraw and that IS Turkey's goal. So they get what they want and don't even have to fight for it.
1
If Pence and Pompeo truly want to save the world from Trump's third-grade statecraft, first, they wouldn't be at the top of anyone's list to save anything but Trump's short-term re-election chances (which is what they're doing).
Second, they would start by taking away Trump's phone and twitter privileges, and checking him into a monastery that maintains a vow of silence. At least that would buy them a few minutes before his expulsion.
Third, they would do what any person with a shred of authentic patriotism and cognitive functioning would have considered long ago--encourage invoking the 25th Amendment.
149
@omartraore It is a relief to see that I am not the only one that sees the elephant in the middle of the room.
7