A Second Referendum Gains Traction Among Brexit Foes

Oct 15, 2019 · 48 comments
Frank (Chula Vista, CA)
While other countries colonized and oppressed developing countries throughout history, England/Great Britain has a dark past, particularly regarding Ireland. Great Britan''s participation in the European Union seemed to open a new chapter of belonging and cooperation, as well as mutual economic benefit, only to to jeoproized by the Brexit vote. If no Brexit deal is achieved or a second referendum taken, seems this progress and cooperation will be decreased and the people of Great Britain will be the real losers. Also, the fragile political progress between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland will be in jeopardy.
Voter (Chicago)
Remember that Putin and Cambridge Analytica had their thumbs on the scale in the first Brexit referendum, as they did in the 2016 American election. Putin has celebrated both. The only lasting solution to the Irish Difficulties has been the existence of the European Union. The new referendum must be conducted, since the first one was tainted. Boris Johnson and Donald Trump are both traitors to their respective nations.
Carsafrica (California)
Democracy is dynamic , for sure the British people have to have the last say in a final referendum. My guess is it will be a vote to stay and hopefully this whole dismal exercise will result in reforms to make the E.U. more efficient and effective on the World Stage. A strong Europe is necessary to offset the inevitable expansion of Chinese influence possibly in conjunction with Russia. Sadly the USA has abdicated this role
D (Btown)
@Carsafrica Democracy doesn't have do overs. The people of Brittan have already spoken. If the English Parliament cant get the will of the people done get a new Parliament, not a new vote
Ladybug (Heartland)
People change their minds, especially when they are more informed. We have a "do over" here for president every four years. All studies indicate that Brexit will have a negative impact on the British economy. To deny the British people another vote on this, now that they know the truth, is the opposite of democracy. The only reason the Brexiteers are so adamantly against another referendum is because they know they will lose.
Peter Hunt (Philadelphia)
Another referendum at this time, seem only fair. The people will be more informed about the options than they were originally. With so much disarray within the political parties, the people will have a real say about the future direction of their country.
GregP (27405)
@Peter Hunt And if the vote is to remain, would a Third Referendum, to 'break the tie'' seem fair? What if there is a second vote but it is to leave? After, reports appear that say there was a misinformation campaign directed by Putin? A third vote then to 'make sure'? NO Do Overs in Elections. That is a Rule of any Democracy. Do Overs equal the death of democracy. There will not be another referendum. No matter what Labor wants.
serious searcher (westchester,ny)
@GregP Where does it say no "do-overs" in any democracy? If an election is evidently corrupted and it results in a corrupted conclusion, then the need for a "do-over" would be self evident. On the other hand, where an election is only "moderately" corrupt, the need for a do-over is less clear. As democratic elections become more and more manipulable due to technological development and the ease of social engineering, the need for "do-overs" in democratic states or countries may become more common.
gus (nyc)
@GregP elections are in fact sometimes repeated if there are issues in voting -- this happened in the 2018 midterms in the United States for example. In any case this is not a "do-over" - people voted to leave (but without being asked how), everyone argued for 3 years on HOW to leave, and people now get to decide whether to leave in this way (the only agreement that was even feasible) or stay after all. It seems pretty fair. To say that this undermines the will of the people is absurd, considering that the people are being asked to weigh in once more.
Sequel (Boston)
A second referendum has no purpose at all. It cannot cut through the logjam in Parliament which is created entirely by those Remainers who reject any deal because they want to end the entire debate, and those Leavers who want a clean break and a negotiated new relationship after EU membership has ended. And no one wants to stand for Parliament during an election that takes place during an extension of the current deadline. At this precise moment, it is in the UK, Irish and EU governments' mutual interest to resolve the problem of the consent mechanism for ending the temporary and indefinite Irish border solution. Parliament seems unlikely to pass it at this moment, but since it doesn't take effect until 2021, it is hard to predict whether popular disgust with paralysis will simply begin to look like a yearlong extension that will permit achievement of lesser goals.
Josue Azul (Texas)
The EU has massive incentives to make an example out of the UK for leaving. Even if the UK decides on a re-do the EU should emphatically reject it unless the UK is willing to switch over the the Euro. It’s unbelievable how horrendously the UK overplayed their hand in all this. Did they really think the rest of the EU would miss their meat pies and Jaguars?
realist (new york)
It's the only sane thing for them to do.
Dwight Cramer (Santa Fe, NM)
How much longer will the Europeans remain patient with all this floundering?
G Rayns (London)
The British are Europeans.
terry brady (new jersey)
This poor country, England, needs to realize the modest empire cannot stand. If the Prime Minister gets out the logic of Scotland, Whales and North Ireland sticking with England disappears. Brexit fatigue overwhelmed everyone and nothing will stand again. The European Union is fed up with Boris and his band of ragamuffin advisors. Maybe Boris will make a quick dash to America and bring back the US diplomatic wife accused of vehicular homicide.
G Rayns (London)
Very thoughtful. But which 'Whales' were you referring to? Or do you mean Wales, which is the correct spelling, or Cymru, in Welsh?Small details like this matter to Welsh people.
Lizzy (Brussels)
I am a European traumatised by Brexit! I can‘t stand to hear any more about a second referendum or an extension. I want the Brits to leave the EU on 31.10.19 with or without a deal. I don‘t actually care anymore which way it goes as long as they leave. They‘ve had their cake. It‘s time to eat it!
Philip (London)
@Lizzy Much more of this sentiment and we will have a second referendum and vote to remain.
Paul (london)
@Lizzy As a Brit who voted remain and still desperately wants to remain, I thank you for putting up with everything the past three years has thrown up, however I politely remind you that only half the country voted for this and frankly, we're not going to put up and shut up. Sorry about that.
CP (NYC)
The original vote was hijacked by Russia and is thus null and void. Let the people vote again free from foreign interference, and aware of the actual consequences of this continent-shaking event. Anything else is anti-democratic.
D (Btown)
@CP Like Trump right? These people are like little kids. I didn't get my way now give me my ball back I want to go home
Otavio Zabaleta (London)
@CP Sure... Blame the Russians for people's vote... Here in UK the government tries, but it's not as easy to blame their blunders on Russia.
Mark F (Ottawa)
The year is 2161, and Earth is preparing with the Tellarites, Andorians, and the Vulcans to create the United Federation of Planets. Except for the United Kingdom, which is having another Referendum on whether to leave the European Union.
Friendly (Earth)
@Mark F This is pathetically hilarious.
BP (Alameda, CA)
Putin must be loving life right now, watching the UK and the US immolate themselves. He is watching lifelong goals being realized in his own time.
gf (Ireland)
If each of the four countries in the UK were counted separately only England would vote to leave, as Scotland and Northern Ireland would vote again for remaining and Wales has switched to remain- according to recent polls. As the UK has devolved government now, this all UK as one referendum has undermined democratic reforms over recent decades and stirred old resentment about English dominance. May had a plan to stay in the customs union to minimise the damage from Brexit. Johnson won’t get through this unless he faces this reality. It will ultimately break up the UK if English voters push it through.
Koret (United Kingdom)
The real issue about the referendum in the UK, was that after 6 years of extreme Tory austerity, which was an all out assault on the welfare state and a war on poor people, the victims of this assault struggling with their very existence, where subject to false propaganda (as was the whole of the population). This was to blame the EU and EU immigrants for the appalling austerity being reigned down on them by the Tory government. The people who voted in their millions to leave the EU are the very people who will be the victims of a no deal Brexit or any deal to leave which will be infinitely worse than membership of the EU. The only way to break this appalling scenario is by allowing a further referendum, where the electorate are properly informed of all the benefits of being an EU member and to contrast this with the negative effects of no deal, or a negotiated deal.
D (Btown)
@Koret If the people of England cant get there own polls to do their bidding why would they trust some bureaucrat in Brussels? Brexit now and forever!!!
Ted (California)
If there is another referendum, I hope voters and election officials are better prepared to defend it against Russian meddling than they were in 2016.
Joseph G. Anthony (Lexington, KY)
Britain post second referendum with a decided remain vote will be a prelude to us post repudiating Trump election. Both of our countries will have revealed to us a third of our countries deeply alienated from the prevailing norms. The challenge then will be to reconcile this alienated populace back into the fold. Not to our opinions, but away from xenophobic nationalism, away from racism, away from distrust of anything not completely familiar. And for us, to listen to real grievances. That will be the real challenge.
Otavio Zabaleta (London)
@Joseph G. Anthony Agreed, there's a big problem facing democracies, which is the fact that, nowadays, the alienated part of their societies is very large. It will be specially challenging to bring them back to society, as those poor and alienated people tend to be the easiest target for radical ideologies.
Jon (Washington, DC)
All other considerations aside, I don't see how MPs can be expected, this Saturday, to cast the most consequential vote they will cast in their whole careers, when what they'll be voting on isn't even known yet.
Jerry (New York)
It is generally agreed that Russia influenced the first referendum. Therefore, there should be a second referendum to right that wrong!
GregP (27405)
No way there is a second Referendum. Period. There may or may not be another delay. If there is, it will result in a General Election, not a Second Referendum. A General Election that either the Tories or the Brexit party wins with a large majority. Put on your big boy pants and just leave on 10/31. Or don't and leave after the General Election. But a Do Over? That is not on the table.
G Rayns (London)
Really, that is up to the British!
M. de Valois (DC, USA)
Will the pro EU elites promise to accept the outcome of a second referendum? Why should voters believe them? The elites have refused to accept the validity of the first referendum, after all!
Nina (H)
At least this time (another referendum) people will know what they are voting for.
ss (Boston)
That would signify the death of democracy and the victory of the MPs over the voters. And, the best way to kill any possibly ordered Brexit since I believe BoJo will never seriously consider this. Of course, this refers to the common-sense people, not for the Remainers. Their hatred for Brexit, for those who voted for Brexit, and their disrespect for democracy knows no limits. I have to admit I am somewhat shocked by this sudden turn of the so-called Labour from their multi-year slumber and impotence on this matter.
G Rayns (London)
The UK is a parliamentary democracy, and being so a referendum is by its nature purely advisory. The Tory party have not accepted referenda outcomes in the past (ie formation of Scottish parliament.)
Dorothy (Emerald City)
I think they should hold a 2nd referendum. They made the first decision on fake news and false data. They made a mistake. It’s simple. And Boris should go to jail for misleading them.
Dan Kravitz (Harpswell, ME)
It is not wise to take momentous decisions in a single vote. Matters such as Brexit or Scottish independence should as a matter of course be subjected to multiple votes. To make such a change, a generation should agree. Nations last for centuries, if not millenia. The germ of the European Union (The Treaty of Paris) is already almost 70 years old. Once such a vote is proposed, it should be agreed in advance that if it passes, it will be subject to two more votes, each ten years apart. If all three votes agree, the matter is decided. Scotland has been part of the UK for over 300 years. Taking 20 years to decide on separation does not seem to be too long. It should be the same for Brexit. Dan Kravitz
C.L.S. (MA)
I am not a Brit, but the answer to Britain's agony seems to be a new and definitive vote on Brexit. Hopefully it will be resoundingly rejected and the U.K. will remain in the European Union. As another commentator summed up the situation, Brexit means “Farewell Great Britain, hello little England.” Give British citizens a second opportunity to vote. "Remain" will likely win, and there will be no Brexit after all. Then push for reform within the E.U. on internal migration rules. Pass new rules to slow in-migration from countries inside the E.U, thereby preserving national identities—articulated as a primary British national priority. Similarly, work from within to rework contentious E.U. regulations. Finally, reviewing history from the Napoleonic era through the two 20th Century wars and onward to the Cold War and NATO, fully embrace the obvious national security (and economic prosperity) imperatives for Britain to be inside Europe and not outside it.
Arturo Eff (Buenos A)
The current government has no majority. Therefore there should be a dissolution of parliament. Both leaders of the two major political parties should be forced to stand down and new leaders elected either from within their ranks or bringing in a newcomer to tackle the onerous task. And then elections should be held. During which time in the hiatus of parliament, they should ask the Queen to decide whether to stay or go. Her decision thus becomes law. Like it or lump it.
Sally (Switzerland)
@Arturo Eff Or Labour and the Liberal Democrats should appoint their own PM and get rid of BoJo. Corbyn should step down for the good of the nation, he is the main reason why the two parties cannot get together.
Floyd Bourne (Seattle)
These type of decisions should require a super-majority so that the will of the people is more clear. A 51% to 49% result is essentially a draw.
Ed C (Canada)
@Floyd Bourne Absolutely agree. Would suggest at least a 2/3 majority.
BobsYourUncle (California)
@Floyd Bourne Why? 52% of the voters don’t want to be in the European Union. 2/3rds majority required would mean 52% of the population would be ruled by the 48%. And if the people vote leave again? Maybe try for third time? The vote was pretty clear - to leave the European Union.
Sally (Switzerland)
@BobsYourUncle Was it clear? The fact that Russia sabotaged the plebiscite is clear - based alone on that fact, the vote should be redone. In 2016, Cameron asked the voters to buy "the cat in the bag". Once the details of the exit agreement are known, the voters should be consulted again.