AMAZING and RIDICULOUS to hear all the Democratic commenters issuing nit-picky purity tests, when we are staring down the death of our democracy, air, water, and forests under the criminal Trump administration.
Are you all not capable of doing better than this?
Vote blue no matter who. If there are policies that scare you, remember they will have to compromise a LOT to get anything done.
Remember when Obama had to drop the public option to avoid filibuster? The ACA still managed to insure 20 million people who were previously uninsured. That was progress.
Be satisfied with progress, not perfection.
61
I disagree with Brett and find his attitude very disheartening. I feel he knows nothing about what he talks about and makes superficial judgements. His comments were not helpful or entertaining.
22
Warren backed p by Biden for Veep is a dream, I know.
So I'll buy, well, support a little, Biden for Pres. and Warren for Veep - and hope Biden takes the second term off to vacation while he still can hop a boat or plane with his wife and a few grandkids and in-laws. That way I win 2X: Biden and Warren, then Warren for 2 terms and her Veep Pete B. or Michelle O. Wow, 16 good reformative, healthy, credible terms, 1 progressive mainstream guy, 1 very progressive woman, and an absolute genius pair of backups - 1 gay, married, and a scholar, and 1 straight, brilliant, ethical, and black, too. The new America.
13
Bret is right in his assessment of Warren. I've been impressed with Warren up to now. Watching Warren vs. Klobuchar tonight, a big difference. Klobuchar is warm and likable. Could sit down at my kitchen table and talk with her and it would be fun for us both. Not so for Warren. I'd be a little intimidated at first. She knows so much and never stops showing it. Besides, as I noted earlier, she becomes melodramatic, plays on the heartstrings, she doesn't need to. It makes her sound like she's trying to manipulate us. We need to see more of Klobuchar. She can connect with ordinary folks; they would like her. Where's she been?
21
Folks...if you know what is good for you, then you will...
Therein lies the rub.
Most Americans do not know what's good for them...at least in the respect of which Party/Politicians to vote for who will work to do those things which are and will be good for them.
DON"T vote for them.
Instead, they should vote for the Party/Politicians who will work to do those things which are and will be good for those who vote them in.
Most of You...the People.
1
Do you two transcribe an actual conversation? Or are these columns back and forth email exchanges?
And Bret, America knows you’d prefer a moderate Republican-like Democrat. Zzzzzz. How about actually wanting positive change for a change, and not endless micro-tweaks to a system that only benefits the wealthy? What are you afraid of? Put me down for Warren. Let’s take on these tough problems with someone who actually understands how, and help the majority of Americans who need more help.
28
This all feels like such a futile exercise.
Moody's (yes, that disgraced bond rating firm) has correctly predicted presidential results for decades. And they have Trump winning handily.
People simply can't or won't keep up. They are uninformed.
And ... it is hard to knock out an incumbent President. The office-holder has a tremendous advantage.
Horrible as Trump is, it's no different with him. Behaviors won't change. He'll win.
So, much as I enjoy hearing smart and rational people speak thoughtfully and throw out a ton of great ideas and ideals ... it just seems futile.
2
Watching her tonight, very disappointing. Also the female moderators seem enchanted by her. She is melodramatic. Over and over, melodramatic. Klobachur more impressive by a mile! The billionaire fellow, excellent. Why do NYT moderators call on him so little. They are obsessed with Warren.
14
Brett’s point about Trump’s strong political instincts are right on. His laser focus agenda to drive Biden our of the race should tell you all you need to know about who he is most afraid of. Warren as the Democratic candidate in the election would be a unmitigated disasters. Most likely that would invite a moderate independent candidate which could hand the election to Trump, which incidentally would actually a better outcome than a Warren presidency.
3
Watching the Democratic debate tonight. Elizabeth Warren is head and shoulders above the rest. Pete B. & Amy K. don’t understand the simple fact that private health insurance is great if you are healthy and able to work, but your insurance company drops you the moment you get too sick and costly and can’t work. That’s why Medicare for All is what we need to prevent anyone going bankrupt when they get sick.
My only advice after practicing surgery for 45 years is to phase Medicare for All in over 8 years not just 4 years. That will nicely fit in with Elizabeth Warren’s 2 terms as President!
Trump and Pence’s healthcare plan is typically MIA (missing in action).
And let me preemptively point out that every civilized economically advance country has a national government healthcare system that covers every citizen cradle to grave, and costs 3 times less.
30
@Time - Space
Absolutely, a single payer system needs at MINIMUM an eight-year phase in, after scrupulous study.
It's important to be incremental, and to not crater the health care financial markets.
Ultimately a public-private system might be better. Something like France.
12
I don't get it! Why haven't the Democrats already picked a leader to be in strong opposition to Trump. In the Australian system, an opposition leader is picked soon after the federal election result is known - in our case Shorten gave way to Albanese to lead the opposition. Instead of tearing each other apart in public, the Dems should have been singing with one voice long ago. Obviously, they haven't heard the phrase: "United we stand, divided we fall."
10
@Lawrence H
Needing so many to take on Trump gives the impression that he's stronger than they are.
5
"But I’m pretty sure I speak for a lot of Americans in saying I find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything — all of which will fall apart when put to practice, as grandiose plans usually do. And she has a habit of biographical embellishment that, while trivial next to Trump’s, is still disconcerting."
Brett, you would not be saying this about a male candidate. Take the blinders off and consider how much of your analysis is gendered here. And it's bonkers that you apparently think the 37 year old mayor is more qualified.
46
Well said. Bret would rather have a young, inexperienced male, than a women who understands the way this government works now and how to get it to work for all of us in the future!
29
@Felicia
Actually, Bret said he is a huge fan of Biden, who is famous for his embellishments. Bret has an appalling double standard and his non-stop attacks on women while giving a pass to white men is typical of his non-existent principles. Bret's treatment of women in this race has shown what kind of tremendous sexist he is.
17
There is an obvious explanation for Trump's decision. I have no proof but it is part of a repeated pattern. It is just more payoff to Putin.
13
What about if Warren teams up right now with Stacey Abrams as her V.P. ? Why wait? Politics as usual won’t work. The pundits say say Biden has the African American vote as his firewall especially in the early South Carolina primary. As a team Warren and Abrams will electrify the Democratic base leaving Joe in the dust.
21
And lose the election
7
Or Andrew Gillum of Florida.
3
@Elissa Or Rep. Sharice Davids of Kansas.
1
I'm all in with Warren. I think she'll energize the democratic base, particularly the youth, and I think the rest of the democratic base is sufficiently disgusted with Trump that they won't risk staying home or abstaining from voting for her. Even if some of her ideas are ahead of their time, or might not get the support of congress, we need someone to move the meter to the left. The Republican noise machine has been great at putting the left on the defensive. It has sewn the seeds of doubt, anguish, and fear and defeatism into the democratic establishment and thus become a self fulfilling prophecy. We keep running to the politically safe center. Maybe we should try to become a party of principles and instead of playing it safe, go on offense for to take control of the narrative. Trump has given us plenty of material to work with. We just need to have faith in our message and our ideals and to keep shining the light on why our country, rich as it is, has terrible infrastructure, wage disparity, awful healthcare that is over priced, and an education system that is dysfunctional compared to other countries. Elizabeth Warren is willing to address these issues with specifics, knowledge and ideas. Unfortunately too much of our politics is the triumph of image over substance and emotion over reason. As a "reality" TV star, Trump was well positioned to take advantage of this. It's time to burst that bubble.
22
Quite disappointed that you didn't address the emoluments elephant in the room when you spoke about Trump's motivations in respect to Turkey and the Kurds.
Can't move on from that. Please stop being shy about this.
15
While I'm going to vote for the Democratic presidential nominee in 2020,I feel the same way about Warren's public personality as Bret Stephens does: it's not currently a winner.
When will the Dems learn? Bret Stephens' characterization of Warren's self-presentation (for one thing, "intensely alienating") is well deserved. Warren's campaign just reeks of the same kind of know-it-all showing-off as Hillary's in 2018.
And, as was also true of Hillary, she consequently comes off as ignorant of what American voters like: less detail, more one-liners and the kind of competence that doesn't need to be (and can't be) proven by a mountain of spoken facts or detailed positions
To win, the Democratic nominee needs to be smart enough to understand that many Americans are, for better or worse, more interested in celebrities than they are in the erudition of politicians. A truly smart candidate should understand that's how the public currently rolls.
Trump, for all his tragic faults and destructive ignorance, has always known that much. If only the Democratic nominee in 2020 could study and become as expert in that skill, I don't see how any otherwise qualified candidate like Warren could lose. If only...
6
So we need a democratic trump ? No thanks!
11
Nit-picking the Democratic candidates is almost guaranteed to give us another 4 years of Trump. I am horrified that Gail Collins would say that Elizabeth Warren is the left-wing answer to Trump! What a shallow and baseless comment--Warren is highly intelligent (which Trump isn't), she has lots of ideas for fixing the mess we're in after just two years of Trump, she's honorable (which Trump isn't) and she cares about people (which Trump doesn't).
God help us all if journalists like Collins amuse themselves in the next few month with their "great insights" into the Democratic candidates which include snide and distorted asides. Think before you speak, Ms. Collins.
27
@Elizabeth Bennett
Collins is right. Warren’s condescending answer about marriage will be this election’s Deplorables comment, and will alienate exactly the same voters in the same rural areas.
It was an oh-so- superior thing to say, insulting, and so, so Foolish. More hubris that will only help Trump.
12
It’s Tulsi Gabbard who is a little more akin to Trump than Warren. But whoever wins the nomination, it’d be nice to see Buttigieg round out the ticket.
6
Time to bring on Steve Bulloch. Let's get him on the stage with the others. If you're looking for a moderate with experience and some appeal to a wide swath of voters including independents the DNC needs to give him more exposure.
10
I'm impressed that Stephens is able to characterize his reluctant and open-eyed support of Biden as a vote for the United States. If I were Biden, I wouldn't run around boasting for another nanosecond, that he's the best candidate to defeat Trump, given the power of the President to tailor the circumstances of election day precisely to favor himself against any variety of candidate. Rather, I'd expect Biden to say, Vote for me, "Let's vote for the United States."
Although he isn't one of them, Biden is the kind of candidate who could have hung around with Democrats who COULD have held our confidence as President, and now he's in a field in which he's alone in possessing this affinity, despite the age of others. He should just let it be obvious, without boasting himself into another of his untenable corners. Rather, he should exercise his modest capabilities as a badge of empathy, and let the glitterati enjoy themselves.
1
It is completely unfair to say that Cory Booker believes in nothing except his own ambition. He's no saint, but come on-- he's lived in the inner city for over 20 years!!!! You don't do that unless you have some pretty strong beliefs about social justice.
19
Trump railed against a rigged system but offered no particulars, so rigging can be anything he likes. Warren has been documenting HOW the system is rigged in her research, for decades.
How typical of bad-faith Stephens to put the two even in the same sentence. All while hypocritically congratulating Collins on her book. Oh, and he's STILL sitting on the fence re impeachment!
Let's face it - every single one of us, including you, Bret Stephens, knows perfectly well that had Trump been a Democrat you would have beenscreaming for impeachment within a month of Trump's inauguration, when foreign representations first started renting rooms in his Washington hotel to curry favor with him. You would have been screaming for impeachment if a democrat president had installed his completely unqualified son-in-law in the White House in any capacity, never mind to 'solve the Mideast problem'. You would have been screaming for impeachment when the Stormy Daniels story broke. But your own Republica president? Hmm, let's think about this some more...
21
Love the conversation!
7
It’s The NY Times! Most intelligent and well argued debates and comments in any major newspaper on the east coast. It’s certainly better then the convo here between Brett and Susan.
3
In my opinion Trump's stance on US political issues has become increasingly self-centered, he is that typical ruler who only thinks about the good of his country, the profit of his nation, all regardless of the people. that are met so that your goals are met.
As an example we can cite a recent case that happened to the Kurdish people, which was betrayed by Trump. They lost thousands of soldiers to defeat the Islamic State, which made it possible to minimize US casualties in this fight. Even so, they did not receive the deserved return, in fact they achieved the opposite, just more indifference.
Trump loves to be seen as the tough guy, the powerful guy, the best of all, but he forgets that it won't last forever.
3
Another very misleading headline. Always interesting to read opinions, but this op-ed was not only about Warren or Trump and could have been a better descriptor. I truly wish the editors would be more thoughtful and less sensational when creating headlines.
5
Elizabeth Warren is smart, capable and has some good ideas. But why should she become the leader of the Free World? I don't see a lot of leadership skills here. To be a leader you need to be able to inspire people with your vision, and her vision seems all over the map, pie-in-the-sky. It plays great on the Bernie side of the room, but I'm a liberal Democrat, and even for me she doesn't seem realistic or even what I want. For example, I don't think the government should pay off everyone's student loans. What about all the schleps who paid their own student loans back, are they just fools? To me it's appropriate to make it difficult for private lenders to make usurious loans to students. As a Democrat I want to level the playing field, tax the rich, but not pay people to be irresponsible with their money and then expect the government to pick up the slack.
17
I don’t care if Sen Warren is a confident woman or man. Stephens is spot on when he says she is “alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything”.
13
@KJ
Stephens lacks the knowledge to make any conclusions regarding Warren’s plans.
16
@KJ a) how are they half-baked? Are other candidates' plans more realistic?
b) why is a woman who knows things called a 'know it all'? I have never heard such a characterization of a male candidate. Never, for instance, during the 2016 campaign, when Trump defined 'half-baked know it all' for me.
33
Bernie should drop out....why ?
So the rest of the wanna be's the usurpers who took Bernie's policies the DNC's placeholders put in to take support from Bernie …. their only real value ! Bernie is the only one who can beat Trump ...he is an authentic leader he has the young and the working class and the rest will follow. If you want a honorable leader to take this country through the perils ahead you have one choice the voice who has been consistently yelling for 40 years in the desert a voice in the wilderness now fighting to be heard over the chorus singing the music he wrote.
4
@Wait Still
Agreed.
Bravo~!
2
Amen, Bret! Give me Joe Biden! When I think of the people I know who shocked me by voting for Trump, the only Democratic candidate I can imagine them voting for is Joe Biden. And personally, I am ready for a president that is assuring, comforting and decent — on top of “knowing the territory,” including foreign affairs, better than all of his competition.
12
Bret, have you been eating avocado toast again ???
Sad.
4
50 years ago, when I was a teenager, I was told that boys don't like smart girls so I shouldn't show them how smart I am.
And now, in 2019, a big name columnist in the great big New York Times doesn't like a certain smart woman 'cause she doesn't go to the trouble to hide how smart she is.
Come on, Bret. Get over yourself.
38
@A. Riley I never tried to hide how smart I was and I have done all right for myself in the boys department. But while I admire smart and independent women (and have tried to help and mentor them), I will never vote for Warren. It has nothing to do with her gender; everything to do with her ideology. You do injustice to feminists like myself when you claim that every time a man disagrees with a woman, it is because she is a woman. Maybe it is because he thinks she is wrong. And maybe she is.
5
Couldn't be more wrong.
I like Harris, Klobuchar, Pelosi, and Michelle Obama. I'd be happy with any of them as President.
I don't like Warren and Hildebrand.
6
@Mor
That’s unfortunate. I’m sure that will result in her losing California.
2
It is amazing how voters talk of income inequality,the high cost of health care,education debt, the lack of environmental concerns and yet when someone brings forth proposals to deal with them,they are branded as too liberal.As Thomas Frank says “ listen liberal” if we continue to vote for people who fight for the status quo then nothing will change. The Democrats have moved to the right for too long. Their abandonment of the middle class is is a major reason for Trump. Biden would only stop the bleeding but not fight for the necessary change. Thus another Trump who will say “only I can fix it”.
12
Bret mentioned Amy Klobuchar, who is anything but bland. As a matter of record, Klobuchar had 12 bills enacted while Warren had 2. I used the time frame of Warren's in the Senate and each one's Senate.gov page.
Go Amy!
12
@Carriefaye How do you explain Klobuchar's failure to excite people? She looks like the perfect moderate candidate on paper.
2
@S North She may not be the exciting charismatic candidate which is why maybe we're giving the attention to the wrong people, personalities and promises.
3
@Carriefaye
Give it some thought.
Amy got many bills passed, (good for her, really) under Republican controlled congress.
One would need to look at those legislature and decide how conservative or progressive or not...the were.
I do understand.
Bernie was The Amendment King under heavily partisan Republican controlled gov.
But Sanders were ALL progressive in nature, advancing the cause.
While Amy is the favorite of Conservatives, go figure.
Good, bad...a deal maker? You decide.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/11/klobuchar-president-republicans-1159345
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/429391-gop-senators-offer-praise-for-klobuchar-shes-the-whole-package
3
Watching political journalism in this country I feel a bit like Neo in The Matrix. The real fight isn't democrat vs republican or right vs left or young vs old but rather entrenched, status quo corporate and wealthy interests vs change agents. Its been astonishing to watch the vitriol and anger directed at progressive Democrats advancing a platform of universal health care, support for labor, increased wages, fairer tax policies, climate change legislation, humane treatment of immigrants and refugees, and a more just and fair criminal justice system to be savaged by "liberal" outlets (see MSNBC, NYT) without a rational basis. While there certainly can be reasonable debate as to the specific policies and tactics to achieve these ends does any rational person feel that the American experiment hasn't been entirely corrupted by moneyed corporate influences ?
10
Warren has the fire and energy to run. She's certainly capable of being the first woman president of this nation and of cleaning up some of Trumps messes.
11
Elizabeth Warren is guilty as charged--a "know it all", and an intense, self-convinced one at that. She has a plan for everything and every one of them involves giving the problem to the government to solve + all the tax revenues it thinks it needs to do it. As you'll remember from your school days, this is the high school debater's solution to every problem. High-schoolers have only a very superficial understanding of the world's problems so, in every debate there comes the moment when some 16 year-old says, 'I have a plan, I'll empanel a blue-ribbon presidential commission to study the problem and make recommendations to congress'. Look out for Elizabeth Warren, that's just how she thinks. She would tax and regulate the economy till it ground to a halt then say it was everybody else's fault, that they didn't try hard enough to make her plans work--then turn and walk away.
6
@Ronald B. Duke , fwiw, Warren was the star of her high school debate team, and routinely won debate tournaments against other schools. Or did you already know that when you wrote your comment?
That’s not the only argument one can use in high school debate. I was on my debate team and often took the opposing side of the tax and spend issue. In law school, I was the female student who argued against the ERA (against another female student). A well-trained debater can argue any side of any issue. At least, they SHOULD be able to do that. A well trained lawyer definitely can.
12
@Ann : I didn't know, but I'm not surprised. When her plans fail you and I, fellow citizen, will be left holding the bag(s). In general it's best not to solve problems; let time and the market do it, they'll end up doing a better job. Look where planning got the Soviet Union.
3
@Ronald B. Duke You're absolutely right. The USA should immediately stop subsidising agriculture, fore one. Let time and the market decide how many farms go under.
10
Ah, yes. "Never-Trumper" Bret Stephens can't vote for Elizabeth Warren because ... well, let's just say that his reasons show that he's as crazy as a bedbug.
14
I will not be reading anything by Bret Stephans ever again. His misogyny, lies, and gross insults are there for all to behold.
21
The place of the USA in the world for gender equality by nations is 49 th.
France is at the 11th position.
https://time.com/5028384/gender-gap-united-states-world-economic-forum/
9
How come Bret Stephens comments always come off as written before or without regard to the event he is commenting on? This is The New York Times, not Twitter! Do better or lose my attention (and subscription).
2
Why don’t you talk about Andrew Yang?
6
Tulsi may have a point... the New York Times certainly does not like her as a candidate.
8
Bret Stephens repeating the right wing propaganda here when talking about the admirable Elizabeth Warren:
"she has a habit of biographical embellishment that, while trivial next to Trump’s, is still disconcerting."
To get a sense of how dishonest Bret Stephens is, I suggest anyone look at Biden's far more egregious "embellishments" of his biography. But Stephens falls over himself in praise of Biden.
Either the double standard is because Stephens is truly a woman-hating Republican or he is simply a dishonest purveyor of right wing propaganda who has no business having a column in the NY Times.
Why is this man allowed to throw dishonest smears at a woman? Because Stephens is a privileged white male and that gives his license to mischaracterize any women who gets in the way of a man whose plagiarism and misremembered anecdotes Bret Stephens celebrates as honorable.
Talk about a double standard. Bret Stephens is why "me too" has a long way to go. Truly appalling piece of dreck.
19
Hunter Biden's ambitions are every bit as skeevy as Ivanka and Jared and Junior and what's his name with the gums...
Nepotism is corruption. Biden may not like it, but he's in the mud with Trump now.
There is little daylight between Warren and Bernie policy wise. My thinking is that their constituencies merge, not if but when. Trump may want to face his "pocahontas" that's true, but Trump is an idiot. Think on that.
6
I think the NYTimes is doing selective blocking on comments pages. Should post this online to see if others are experiencing this.
Would be a field day.
4
@Aristotle
Yep.
2
Instead of asking which candidate is best for the job, I am now going to ask myself which candidate will cause the least damage.
6
So you don't really want much to change and, if a moderate Democrat does manage to win the presidency, it will just set us up again for another Trump or worse down the near road. Sanders and Warren are doing as well as they are for good reasons. They get it. It's a shame these columnists seem not to.
15
The discussions between these two are usually illuminating and this one is as well but I find it rather tiresome that there is NO actual discussion of Warren's plans merits/cons... But I guess just like when Clinton was running for president, even the more center and liberal media found a way to talk about the "idea of Clinton" as president rather than Clinton's ideas/substance, creating more click bait and media frenzy (Dowd did a great job telling how bad Clinton was as a concept). I guess just like Fox, ultimately the rest of the fourth estate still needs to make money first and cover the news second and tackle the substance of the issues somewhere down the line...
7
There's an observation in business that when you give people a lot of choices, they're happy until you take a lot of those choices away. Then they're mad and go elsewhere. Democrats are giving a lot of choices and inevitably will take most away. People will be mad and go elsewhere, like to a third party, fringe candidate, even the GOP, or stay home on their couch.
4
I would love to see a Biden Warren tickes. Biden does one term and hands the reins to Warren to run for President.
5
Wow, Bret has learned nothing in the last 4 years. Clinton almost=Biden, albeit less dislikeable. He too is bereft of ideas and has been waiting his turn for decades. He is less sharp than Clinton, clearly showing his age. Newredstaters took a flyer on Trump because they wanted change, they will do the same with Warren, even if the fake Dems from Wall Street turn on her.
7
What is it with the press? The NYT leads with, "she divides the room"; The WaPo leads with, "She shed a husband"; & a relatively conservative NYT columnist for the Times says dismissively that she's a know-it-all. Takes one, Bret.
I understand that online newspapers need clickbait, but please stop. The future of the country is at stake.
As an aside, I worked in Houston in the very early 80s, just a few years after Warren did. Men back then were awful. I had a client who did not (thank goodness) lunge at me. He told me that he cooked the best BBQ and I had to come to his (recent divorcé) place to taste it. It wasn't phrased as something I could turn down.
First I told him that my BF & I would both love that, so kind of him to offer! I knew what he was doing.
Two weeks later, I claimed 'immigrant privilege.' I said my (he'd been promoted) husband would not understand, that I came from a different culture where men & women didn't meet alone for BBQ. It was very hard to understand how to behave. I had no role models.
A week later, I gave up. I said, I'm not going to your singles pad for BBQ. Get over it. Invite us as a couple or don't.
Next day, he called my boss and asked for someone else to handle the account. Like Warren, I stayed silent. Speaking out in the 1980s about what is now called sexual harassment was death to the career of a female professional.
I'm voting for the know-it-all candidate.
24
@Corina
Hmm, the mother being a lifelong (or even LIFELONG) conservative switches direkt to Bernie and absolutely nobody else! Why does it fail my reality check? Who r u Corina? An environmentalist who is ready to support trump by no voting?
1
Yikes. I have never commented here before, but Bret’s comment about Warren being a “know-it-all” for actually knowing what she is doing is just offensive and disturbing. Say what you really mean: you won’t vote for a woman.
25
I voted for Hillary. And I absolutely agree that Sen Warren is “alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything”.
6
Much as Bret Stephens annoys me (very, very much,) he does do a good job of articulating the (very, very dumb) case against Senator Warren. Thankfully, Gail Collins slapped it down effectively: "Both she and the voters are aware that you have to set high goals because Congress, even under optimal circumstances, will give you only a piece of what you’re striving for." I hope Senator Warren's team - and the candidate herself - will start mentioning this. Warren's positions (and the Green New Deal,) are the starting points for a negotiation. The idea being - when you reach for the stars, you rarely come up with a handful of mud.
8
Even if we agree with the center of Warren’s comment to the guy who asked about marriage, it was still a snarky, condescending, DUMB thing to do. Just like HRC’s Deplorables comment was a dumb thing to do even if a lot of us agreed to some extent.
It is that condescension which lost the election in 2016, and which will certainly lose Warren votes in rural, working-class areas in 2020, in the primary and the general of she’s the nominee.
Klobuchar, for one, wouldn’t say such a dumb, insulting, and oh-so-superior thing.
7
Sure Trump wants Warren to be his opponent. He knows that will bring out the misogynist vote, which is a big part of his base.
6
@Nikki
The misogyny will bring out more women, similar to 2018, for Warren, regardless of her policy positions.
6
Who picked that headline? With respect, it does not appear to me to reflect the substance of the discussion
9
I disagree with Brett. Biden is just more of the same. Just another milquetoast Democrat. Very uninspired and too old. I’d wager a lot of folks agree with this.
People that are for Trump are too far in to change their tune.
Democrats need to stop nominating these weak, dull candidates. Warren is authentic and gets my vote. Anybody who is OK with their kid grafting 50k per month off a foreign company because of their status is not for me or for most of the population of the country. Trump’s corruption is overt and despicable. The corruption of the good old days of Washington was silent and that really stinks.
11
Bret Stephens divides the room.
14
He should divide the Europe from America. Relocating to Acores would do it.
Sorry Acores.
2
Elizabeth Warren will clearly get the endorsement of NYT. I sure wish someone would analyze the distribution of Warren-related comments over time within these political forums and see if the positive ones appear to be progressively front-loaded, compared to negative ones, as the democratic field winnows down. The differences between submission times and posting times for candidate-specific comments would be especially illuminating. But this data is surely guarded by the NYT editorial staff.
2
Ah, Mr. Stephens is afraid his taxes might go up, isn't he. Hence the rubbish he writes here about Warren (comparing her ideas and policy proposals to left wing versions of Trump's drooling babbles).
Mr. Stephens, I wonder if you know how transparent you are?
11
At this point, the people have three favorite democratic candidates. This paper is trying its best to give the impression that there are only two.
Why is this so tolerated among educated NYT readers? The fact that the underrepresented candidate is clearly favored among America's poor and disenfranchised doesn't seem to count for much.
4
Corina - you and your petty mother represent the narrow minded "my way or the highway" branch of the Democratic Party.
You will be the end of our democracy in your mistaken belief that not voting for someone who doesn't meet your qualifications for Democratic nominee is not automaticlly a vote for Republicans - who also do not meet your qualifications for a Democratic nominee.
I other words, Democrats lost to Trump in 2016 because too many stupid Democrats chose not to vote rather than to vote for a woman they didn't like - Hillary Clinton.
How's that worked out for you and your mother ? Are you/America benefitting from the Donald Trump kleptocracy?
13
Any of them are far superior to Trump. They all have faults so let’s ease up on the negativism and get behind whomever wins. Hence I’ll refrain from my own snarky criticism of the candidates I don’t like. Compared to Trump they’re all great.
17
If you are a progressive intelligent person, when Bret Stevens states he would vote for Biden, that should give you the big clue that Biden should be avoided like the plague. That gives solid evidence that Biden is a moderate Republican and "nothing will change," the exact words out of Bidens mouth regarding what he would do in the White House.
As the very smart analysts are seeing and stating, the two party system is a disaster for most Americans and the World and the Planet. Large scale problems are not being discussed with our current two-party system and something will be happening to all that in the next 10 to 20 years. We cannot survive in this country with the all the binary ideas, one party or the other, medicare for all-single payer or private insurance, and all the other binary choices we are usually given. It can't work that way anymore nor can it be incremental. Exponential rates of change are happening in pop growth, climate change, environmental deterioration and even in the disappearance of species (birds as a good example). No time left folks and Bret Stevens hasn't a clue.
10
I’ll never understand why conservative thought leaders like Mr. Stephens describe policy proposals like a living wage for an honest day’s work, universal healthcare, environmental policies that protect the planet for future generations and affordable education as “terrifying.” These morally correct and economically smart concepts are all “conservative” to anyone who understands the true meaning of the word.
20
@Dabney L
I think the first issue here is that you consider him to be a “thought leader.”
12
Oh snap! Well played BK. I aspire to your quick-witted, irreverent tone.
5
I am appalled that Collins and Stephens both find Joe Biden to be an acceptable candidate.
Joe Biden seems to see nothing wrong with his son obtaining a $50K per month job which was obviously offered in the hope of influencing the Vice President. This is the kind of corruption that Democrats are trying to impeach Trump for.
Have Democrats forgotten that there is a third demographic? In addition to Democrats and Republicans there are many who don't vote, sometimes because they find both choices unacceptable.
Republicans deny global warming, probably the most important issue of our age.
But Democrats seem to deny that the primary cause of global warming is too much population growth. World population has doubled since 1972, and this doubles the rate of production of greenhouse gases, other things equal.
North America is not immune. 29% of the birds here have disappeared in the last 50 years due to population growth.
When Democrats argue for open borders they are displaying an innumeracy that is just as extreme as Trump's.
We need a change in our morality. It is wrong for families to have more than two children in an overpopulated world.
And that brings me back to why I would vote for a third party before voting for Biden.
When visiting China, Biden proclaimed that China's one child policy was "repugnant."
There is NO WAY of saving planet earth without recognizing the need for smaller families around the world.
Resources are limited, there are limits to growth.
9
@Jake Wagner
You conveniently forget how much Trump's sons, daughter,and son-in-law manage to rake in now that Daddy's in the White House.
Give it a rest.
13
On the whole, all of the candidates in tonight's debate share the same goals -- address climate change, achieve universal and affordable health care coverage, achieve a fairer, less discriminatory culture. They mostly bicker over how to achieve those goals.
Both Sanders and Warren argue 1. we need to accomplish change in quick, massive restructuring and 2. only their approach is legitimate.
The problem with (1) is that enacting massive change requires a supermajority in the Senate and they probably won't get even a simple majority, even if Democrats win control of both houses. (2) is a bigger problem -- no one that rigid should be President. The time for "only I have the answer" has passed.
In all likelihood Biden will succumb to his historical tendency for self destruction, and Sanders should, if he genuinely believes in what he says, leave the race so that progressive support can coalesce around Warren, a far stronger candidate.
Maybe then the debates could become something useful, a reasoned policy debate between liberal and far-left approaches to the very real problems we face.
6
We need Independents and moderates in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, to get the minimum 270 electoral votes. But they will hold their nose and vote for Trump because they will reject Warren's agenda which will write the republican ad campaign for free:
1) Democrats will decriminalize illegal border crossings and allow illegals to invade the country.
2) Democrats will raise your taxes to pay reparations, a sure winner issue in the general election.
2) Democrats will raise your taxes to give free health care to illegals.
3) Democrats will raise your taxes to force you on government insurance and take your private insurance away.
4) Democrats will raise your taxes for free college.
And on and on... But most importantly, none of these plans will ever see the light of day with Republican control of the senate, and even with a slim Democratic majority. Warren is practicing deceptive advertising.
5
@dba
Most of Warren’s plans involve regulatory enforcement by the various executive branch agencies. No new legislation is required. You guys are so hung up on issues the media is asking about during debates. If you believe what you’ve written here, then you’ve been manipulated.
14
The only thing they can say against Pete is he is too young. Let me remind everyone that Martin Luther King was only 39 when he died. He did all his activism and made our country progress before he was Pete's age. His government experience is the important real life experience we need. How to bring jobs to cities how to bring businesses and customers to cities how to provide healthcare to employees how to improve the infrastructure. How to work with and along side Republicans in a very conservative Republican state. He's more mature and well rounded than any of the others. Between his education, his work experience and his military service he is head and shoulders above everyone else.
3
@Laurie Rizzolo
Sure, he’ll work with the right wing conservatives in Congress, who do not compromise, to enact conservative legislation. The Republicans in Congress will run over Pete.
4
You know absolutely nothing about his ability to run anything. He is a mayor of a college town and he screwed that up. His education: you know how many people graduate from Ivy League schools every year? How many with honors?
His military experience is a tour in Afghanistan to pad his resume. First, why on earth is he volunteering to serve in a war that is as justified as Iraq or Vietnam? Does he believe in the war in Afghanistan? If so he is a fool. If not, he is an opportunist and a hypocrite. Not good qualities in a president I would imagine.
4
Dear Gail and Bret, all this talk about "electability" is a red herring. You should quit it and make more realistic comments on who you back and why. If rump is able to win the Presidency the notion that there is a widely acceptable electable candidate is false.
Both of you, in my opinion are looking for a center right or GOP "lite" candidate. This would be catastrophic for the working and middle classes. We need someone who can deliver for them.
10
"But I’m pretty sure I speak for a lot of Americans in saying I find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything — all of which will fall apart when put to practice, as grandiose plans usually do. And she has a habit of biographical embellishment that, while trivial next to Trump’s, is still disconcerting."
MY thoughts exactly!!
5
Republicans and wishy-washy, scaredy cat Democrats keep insisting that Warren is too far out there and unelectable. But what I see is a smart, energetic woman who has consistently risen in the polls and drawn bigger and bigger crowds. What I see is a woman who has become more popular the more people see her and listen to her and get to know her. She's the smartest and quickest person in the race. She's the one I most trust to take on Trump without falling into his traps. I don't need to agree with every policy position she takes because I've been around long enough to know I'll never agree with every policy position of any candidate ever (if anyone ever does agree with you all the time on everything it means someone is lying).
22
For generations “know-it-all” has been a tired trope spouted by misogynists to discredit and minimize strong, intelligent women. I urge Mr. Stephens to strive for more thoughtful, nuanced commentary than this in the future. He is better than this and all women deserve better than this.
34
@Dabney L
I agree. Most of the know-it-alls with whom I’ve worked have been men. Stephens appears to be one, also, and is projecting here.
26
I dont understand why so many people seem to be comparing Elizabeth Warren to Hillary Clinton and saying she has no chance at winning the general election. She is a much stronger match up against Trump than Hillary ever was and honestly at this point the Democrats could run a ham sandwich against Trump and still win.
14
@Noah Goverman
I agree. They’re are very different in their backgrounds, demeanors, and policy focuses. They just happen to be people of the same demographic who are lawyers, with not much else in common.
11
And of course Hillary even won the general election, despite being “unelectable”
10
Mr. Stephens finds Mayor Pete’s detailed positions well thought out while Elizabeth Warren’s
clear thinking makes her a know it all. If only she were a man, her proposals would be farsighted and her willingness to change the way things are a sign of leadership. We very much deserve and need
a woman President.
35
DNC rules and media coverage of only front-runners have effectively muzzled some of the lesser Democratic candidates whose voices are much needed today. The current D crop gives an real opportunity to the Republicans if they weren't so hobbled by their current president and putative nominee, assuming he survives removal. He will also take down several GOP senators will him. C.
2
I received a call from a phone bank the other day--the caller reading haltingly from a script asked if I would consider caucusing for Tom Sawyer. My dad is a huge Mark Twain fan and so I instantly delighted in the idea that someone named Tom Sawyer was running for president and my dad would have the chance to vote for him. Then, just as quickly, I realized that Mr. Steyer may not be good at selecting a telemarketing firm. I politely sad no, I would not be caucusing for Tom Sawyer. The fella on the phone said, "Yeah, I suppose there's a lot of other people to choose from." Indeed.
7
There's only two contenders that are speaking for the American people, Warren and Sanders. So what they're too far out for most people. There's a balance to our government to hold them in check. We need a voice to move away from the corporate socialist state we have been becoming. Health care is not too complicated Clinton as described it. It's not to complicated that Warren won't at least try to figure it out. All Hillary offered was a promise of more cuts in Social Security and Medicare. Bernie is a lot of hot air and bluster. I hope he doesn't beat Warren.
At least Warren isn't hated and accounts for everything at this point.
2
@JoeG
You said it yourself. “Too far out for most people.”
That adds up to a loss next year.
6
@Franco51
FDR was considered a commie by a lot of people but of all the crazy left-wing stuff he managed to get through what was necessary. The Democrats have to sell her as they won't let her go to far but there are things that have to be done.
And yes her political correctness scares me but she is likeable, a little weird but likable.
Initially I was impressed with Kamala Harris and Beto but she lost it for me when she tried to make Biden into a racist and then backed Rep Omar and his personality just seemed to get in the way. Biden just doesn't come across as strong and Bernie and Warren are too far to the left. My only wish is that a dynamic candidate who will not just beat Trump but who will come up with some plans that workable but not far to the left comes to the rescue..
4
I think it's a pretty sad state of affairs when conservatives are supporting Biden because he's kind. that sounds pretty wounded to me.
3
I have conservative young relatives in Alabama who like Bernie's honesty and consistency and fight, although they probably wouldn't vote for him. But, they don't like the same when it comes from a woman.
8
" I find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything"
I wonder, would Bret find "him" that same way?
Sad to say, Bret unfortunately represents a key segment of the vote. I wish it weren't so.
17
If is the Left's version of Trump, I'm all in. Left is the opposite of Right, so all that is Trump, is not Warren. And all that is not Trump, which is about everything one could wish for, is Warren. Thanks, Bret, for the compliment.
4
Reading these letters makes me very sad. All sorts of people saying that while they want to vote for a Democrat, they prefer Trump over a less-than ideal Democratic candidate. (Yes, face it, if you stay home because your favored candidate isn't the D candidate, you're essentially saying you're okay with Trump.)
I'm going to need to stock up on tranquilizers to deal with the aftermath of Trump getting reelected next fall. My Trump-loving relatives, if they read the responses to this column, would be giddy with happiness.
6
Not to be disrespectful, but read today’s article on MarketWatch: “Trump in a landslide?...”
Learn that people care about their pocketbooks and jobs above all. Ukraine , impeachment, The Kurds and China is stuff for the “elites”. Even if all those issues will come bite us in a not-too-far future, how voters feel about themselves matters most.
I’d ask the Democratic contenders: how will they maintain employment numbers and a general sense of “better feeling” about themselves among voters at large? Not to mention fear of disruptions (such as in healthcare, more outsourced jobs), whether they are real or not?
2
Market Watch as in News Corp as in Rupert Murdoch as in failed to pick the 2016 winner
as in landslide?
3
What is happening to the Kurds is awful. But anyone who was an ardent support of the Iraq War, advocates for a larger nuclear arsenal, and gleefully hopes for armed confrontation with Iran really doesn’t deserve to have an opinion on the matter at my local bar, let alone the pages of the New York Times.
6
I would like to ask Bret what we would do about the following:
1. Tax receipts as a percent of GDP are at modern historical lows, under 20%.
2. Changes in tax policy over the past three decades, have shifted more and more money to the wealthy, creating a level of income inequality unseen since the Guilded Ages.
3. Lack of revenue has seriously impacted our citizens. Our infrastructure is falling apart, our schools are failing due to lack of money (if this is not true, then why do teachers have to buy supplies?), and upward mobility among most of our your people is a fading dream.
4. Despite spending more money than any industrial country on health care, many of our citizens are still uninsured and underinsured to the point where even if you have insurance you often can't afford the deductibles, coinsurance, etc. As a likely result, we are failing on key measures of health including longevity.
I would argue that Warren is, in fact, a conservative. Why? Because she wants to undo this radical taxation scheme begun by Republicans which began under the Regan administration. She also wants to unstack the deck in terms of corporate domination of our political life.
I would love to hear a conservative, like Bret, to tell us how they would address these key issues with real numbers. The fact is, if the US was running at 25 or 28% total taxes as a percent of GDP we would be a happier, healthier country. Except that is for the wealthy winners.
11
Here is something I would like to see Warren or Sanders take up as a cause and that is to withhold federal funding from all colleges that take legacy into account when determining admissions.
I think it is an unjust anachronism that should be abolished.
Of course the private colleges won't like it but they can choose not to take federal money if they don't like it.
4
All kinds of crazy things are happening with me right now....not the least of which is that I agree 100% with what Bret Stephens said in this column.
I'm a liberal (well, nowadays considered a moderate) with a fair number of Republican friends...they have one thing in common -- they very much don't want to vote for Trump. There are 3 candidates they would consider: Mayor Pete, Kloubcher, Bennett, Biden. And that's it.
(and before everyone jumps on me, I'm not telling you how they should vote, I"m telling you how they *will* vote).
11
“... It ought to scare Democrats that Trump, whose political instincts are sharp, seems to want Warren as his opponent. Again, I know I don’t speak for many of our readers on this one. But I’m pretty sure I speak for a lot of Americans in saying I find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything — all of which will fall apart when put to practice, as grandiose plans usually do. And she has a habit of biographical embellishment that, while trivial next to Trump’s, is still disconcerting...”
DITTO a hundred times over!!!
11
It would be great if Bernie were to bow out and transfer his support and campaign $$ to Warren, who has a better chance to win, is younger, and in better health. Sure, Warren proposes more than can be realistically enacted, but aiming high while making real progress is effective. Warren + Sherrod Brown (Sen., Ohio) or Warren + Michael Bennet (Sen., Colo.) could be winning tickets, & Warren can effectively counter Trump, if he's still running, in debates. She'd make mincemeat of the dimwitted evangelical so-called Christian ideologue Pence.
5
I respect your opinions for the most part, but I think you are both a little quick to judge the candidates who are facing incredible disadvantages in the "debates" where they are obliged to shine without blinding everybody, except for Biden. His unforgivable mistake was to destroy Anita Hill and to enable Clarence Thomas all those years ago. It has condemned our highest court to mediocrity, and made it impossible for it to do anything worth while for the foreseeable future. Sorry. Can't forgive him for that.
4
The left voted for Nader. We got Iraq. The left voted for Bernie. We got Trump.
For all of you who say you "won't vote" unless you get your candidate, thanks for thinking of your country.
Any candidate who is telling you we can go reverse such destabilizing factors as the impact of automation on jobs is just plain lying. Trump dangles a halcyon and fictional past. So does Warren.
9
Too far left is a republican tag line. The democrats have been weak and ineffective in helping their base with centrist policies. The wealthy, corporations and beltway bandits are running away with the country. Bret seems to be quite comfy and does not want to see the status quo upset. Most of this country has real problems, something Joe Biden is not nimble enough to address. We made a mistake last election by running a corporate democrat, if they would have run Bernie, I think he would have won. This is about rich vs. poor - not republican v. centrist democrat v. liberal democrat. Don't be afraid of change Bret, the smartest person should be president not the most docile and easily led.
10
@Leigh
Bernie didn't get the nomination because Bernie didn't get the votes. PERIOD.
And there's no way he would've beaten Trump.
8
The very best way of reelecting Trump is to vote in the Democratic primaries for Warren or Bernie, because Trump would clearly defeat either of them in the electoral college. The is no evidence at all that the electoral college would elect a candidate from the far left tail of the voter distribution curve. This my friends is precisely Trump's plan. Destroy Biden in the Democratic primaries and get reelected in 2020.
9
Interesting to see how so many people are fearful that Warren will not be able to relate to the moderate or Mid West/swing state voter. Just look at recent polls in Iowa, Minnesota, Nevada, SC, etc. She is either moving up or in one of the top 2 spots. As more people hear and see her, they appear to be 1. understanding what she is actually proposing vs what the tag lines say, 2. they decide she is a warm, compassionate person who hears what they have to say, and 3. they relate to her feelings of getting rid of the corruption in the rigged system.
8
@Linda
You want to know what I'm looking at? -- Something you and just about everyone else fails to mention, and that's her standing within the African-American community and her ability to get the Black vote; which quite frankly she hasn't been able to pull off no matter how much she rakes in with campaign donations.
Like it or not, it makes a difference -- and not only in states like South Carolina.
She'll find that out sooner or later.
8
If the black voters cannot understand what is good for them, there is not much anyone else could do for them. Bernie and Warren would be better for blacks than even Obama and Clinton.
6
@Linda Spoken by a biased constituent. When did she ever get legislation passed?
3
I give up on the USA. I am so grateful that my granddaughter has dual citizenship and will never have to worry about the cost of health care, nor will she graduate university with onerous high interest debt. She may even go to medical school, like her cousins, without accruing debt. And she will be bilingual and possibly trilingual.
6
@Zejee
I've been railing against immigrant female privilege for years!
I will not be voting this year or any other year. America lost access to my electoral voice when it foolishly spurned the prophetic campaign of one Malcolm Stevenson Forbes Jr.
1
Interesting conversation which introduces a lot of things both dems and repubs should be thinking about. While I read the whole article, I mostly agree with Gail's early comment: "Sort of looking forward to the time when these things are a little less crowded." Hopefully, tonights debate will accomplish that.
3
Bret Stephens perfectly encapsulates the terror of a Warren candidacy. As he elucidates adroitly, the readers of this paper are a loud, but very small, representation of the electorate. The vast majority of life-long Democrats I know, like myself, would not want to vote for warren.
12
Yes it would be terrible if Americans had what citizens of every other first world nation on earth have had for decades. Free health care and college education. Horrors! And we need money in politics! So Big Business can continue to rule!
10
@Jon
Amazing how we all believe that the people we know represent the majority.
5
I have my preference of nominee but will vote for whoever ends up as the nominee ; common sense folks , any of the contenders will certainly be better than Trump and the damage he will continue to do , not only to our constitution , but to the environment , our health ,our mental well being , and to the health of our country .
6
@ sm , while in theory they might all be better than Trump, they do not all have the ability to beat Trump. Choose the wrong candidate and you guarantee another 4 years of Trump. The nation cannot afford to have the Democrats screw this one up.
4
Elizabeth Warren is not pandering to the left. She is formulating policies that will respond to the crises the extreme conservatives have created since the 1980s. Just as Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Johnson and Obama did to move america forward. Go Elizabeth!!!
9
@richard brooks You know Teddy Roosevelt was a Republican, right?
3
Why is it that (particularly) Republican men can't seem to figure out that calling an intelligent, determined, articulate woman a "know it all" is just more sexism? What is wrong with Bret Stephens that he just doesn't get it. I also hesitatingly agree that his assessment will ring true viscerally with so many (especially white) men in America and could cost the Democrats the election. The vile Trump could still win though I think even suburban Republicans have likely had enough. But the problem with America is not unlike Stephens' having "intensely alienating" feelings---the power of structural sexism is yet another feature of our nation's emotional and intellectual immaturity. We know she offers policies that with a Republican Senate stand no chance but when you ask for nothing, you often get less than nothing. I feel confident that Senator Warren would govern ably under the circumstances of this truly broken America.
18
@Rover , Republican MEN don’t get it? I’m a Republican WOMAN who voted for Hillary and I absolutely cannot stand Elizabeth Warren. I’ve hated her for years, from the very first time she got written up in Vogue (12/20/10). She was a disaster running the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and yes, she is a know-it-all preachy schoolmarm who lies about her heritage and her history. Plus, she is insufferably boring. Trump will chew her up and spit her out. He will crush her. Kamala Harris has a better chance at beating Trump than Warren. I would take Harris’ prosecutorial skills any day over a Warren lecture. Snoozzzzzzz. Kamala has a nice voice, too. Warren is like nails on chalkboard.
4
This debate, like many others, underscores the reality that the skills needed for campaigning are now fully divorced from those needed to govern effectively. For example, singling out Warren as a "know-it-all" speaks to her marketing skills as a candidate and not to her formidable knowledge as an expert in bankruptcy law and as the policy expert behind the creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. She threw an evangelical under a bus? Good for her! For another example, acknowledging the intelligence and speaking abilities of Buttigieg and Klobuchar but dismissing them for, essentially, lack of charisma, ignores the critical reasoning skills both obviously command and which a commander-in-chief needs if the country is to benefit. The country needs leaders like each of them. This divorce between the campaign and the office itself condemns the country to the endlessly stupid war between elitism and populism and likely also condemns the country to a slow fade into mediocrity and obscurity in the remaining eight-tenths of the 21st century. China has bullet trains and Europe has the TGV while the US cannot get beyond Amtrak. Shouldn't we all be learning Chinese by now to prepare for what the future has in store?
5
I'm one of those conservatives looking for a democrat to vote for. There are many of us, in swing states, that want to vote for a democratic. But they are not making it easy for us. So here is what you need to do to get the swing voter.
* Drop the medicare for all position.
The largest government run health care system is the Veterans Administration.
Nuff said.
Until we can fix that system why put a one size fits all on everyone. Work on improving the current system. How about tackling tort reform as next step on improving it and better access to preventative care?
* Stop the Robin Hood talk on soaking the rich corporations / individuals.
You hit the corporations and reduce their profitability by 20%, my and everyone else's self-funded 401(k) also gets hit by 20%. Pensions are done. Retirement is fully self funded and matching funds from companies will dry up if you go after them.
Rich individuals - they didn't (most of them) get rich by being stupid. They will lawyer up, and move assets away to a friendlier tax haven.
* Drop late term abortion or immediately after birth (Think Virginia new law).
Six months is plenty of time to decide.
I wanted to vote for Joe until I heard him speak the last 4 months. (Troops love Uncle Joe when I was in Afghanistan). He doesn't have the mental stamina anymore. Liz is too far left for me. She would crush corporations, too much nanny state. Bernie is too far left. I'd rather take a chance on Mayor Pete or Tulsia.
5
@David abortion immediately after birth is not a thing...
3
And the prize goes to the authors of Republican talking points who've hypnotized everyone into calling normal liberal positions "radical" or "far left." Warren's institutional critiques are well-worn and her proposals actually to the right of many. She's also a pragmatist and, as far as I can tell, a sincere patriot. She'd be a fine president, tough and nimble. This convo basically paints her as shrill, yuck. In a one-on-one with Biden, she'd beat him like a drum, and on the substance of the issues.
10
This is analysis?
The country is on fire. Main Street has sunk. We're losing both our democracy and our economy to the plutocrats and Mr. Stephens wants a milquetoast candidate whom he won't agree with but who at least won't sell out the Kurds?
Apparently anyone who sees what's going on and tells the truth (Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg, Yang, and even Williamson, for Pete's sake) is "delusional." Anyone who responds appropriately "can't deliver." [Mr. Stephens knows this? I mean, we have to start somewhere.]
Maybe Mr. Stephens should stick to dog analysis, as in “Golden retrievers are good at all ages.”
5
I’m a moderate democrat (was a Republican in college during the 80’s) and I like Warren. Agree Biden is the safe vote if you want to restore the status quo but people want change and Biden is likely incapable of bring out the sort of change needed. If elected, her big ideas will come down to reality but without big ideas you’re just a bore.
6
Just wondering what is achieved by not voting. Aside from it being your right and a civic duty, if you don't like Trump, vote AGAINST him...anyone but Trump.
9
"[H]abit of biographical embellishment"-- Trump would never be able to put these words together in the same sentence, but something like it, maybe "lyin' Pocahantas," will be his crowd chant device should Elizabeth Warren get the Dem nomination. And now we have Bret L. Stephens, a never Trumper to the core, acting as Trumps ventriloquist. We all need to stop listening to anything conservatives who don't sweat or play golf and detest Trump's style say in any way or form about the Democrats running for president. They will vote for any Dem. They will also, and with great harm, regularly give bad "advice" to any and all Dems. And this advice will always be listened to and used by Trump and his conned crew.
5
Millions of fed-up Americans voted to upend the status quo that was failing them. Enter Trump. Yet now that Democrats have the opportunity for real change- to address rampant economic inequity and harness the energy of millions who want real action on climate change- they chicken out. It's the reason Americans still eat white bread and drink lousy coffee. Fear of change. Get behind Elizabeth Warren.
7
"I find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything — all of which will fall apart when put to practice, as grandiose plans usually do."
Wondering if that is Bret Stephen's opinion of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Grandiose? Impractical? Half-baked?
10
The well-established corruption of the 2016 democratic nomination process did not involve just the DNC and the preferred candidate, it also involved the mainstream press. NYT and CNN were highly involved in this corruption and here they are running tonight's debate together. But this criticism will surely not get posted here, at least not before the "conversation" shuts down. I'm batting 0 for 5 in this forum since 8am only, it seems, because I've expressed thoughtful and civil criticism of Elizabeth Warren's candidacy.
3
@carl bumba
Wow, just like that! Now I'm 1 for 6.... I think they gave up a hit just to prove me wrong.
2
@carl bumba
You're not alone.
We might have to resort to "she that must not be criticized" as we did last primary election. It's one way to beat the algorithms and censors it seems.
Thanks for your voice.
2
This race for the democratic nomination and the increasing support for Elizabeth Warren is reminding me of the 1972 race. I remember McGovern became the darling of the liberals -- everyone was sooo excited about him so he won the nomination. The result? He was a disaster. And we got Nixon. That is what I fear will happen with Warren. What we need is Amy Klobuchar. She may not be the loudest or the shiniest -- but she is ready to be President. Right now we need her quiet strength. Her proven experience and her gravitas. And she will beat Trump. She will make Trump look like the fool he is and he won't even realize what hit him.
6
@Johanna Dordick
She works well on both sides of the aisle, as well.
1
“Gail: Yeah, the guy who made his name firing people on TV is clearly terrified to actually tell anyone they’re canned face to face.”
Yes. The guy who likes to play the tough guy on tv is in fact so afraid of actual confrontations that he is firing his staff via text, twitter, and proxies. He is also the guy who is only brave enough to confront foreign leaders via twitter like a 12 year old girl.
6
Yea, all that sounds swell, but my cancer pills cost $1,500 a day and only one party wants my insurance company to be able to drop me so I have to pay for them myself. So mark me Party Line Vote to save our home and our savings.
6
Biden/Klobuchar or Biden/Buttigieg. Nothing else is feasible. Warren has NEVER clearly articulated how all her outlandish "plans" will work. Sharp retorts, campaign promises, rabid supporters and big crowd size do not qualify her to be president. We should all be aware of that given what we have now.
9
Have any of the other candidates clearly articulated how their plans will work? Or are they saved from this issue by not putting forth actual plans? That is actually Trump’s problem. He made statements of outcomes/goals throughout the election and never once indicated how he would achieve them.
5
Since our country is likely to go bust thanks to Trump's vanity project and manifold stupidities, along with his destructive buddy system with the world's dictators, we need someone who understands our financial system and can stand up to wealthy and powerful bullies who rule our world these days.
Our survival on this planet demands action, not good-old-boy backslapping and niceguyism.
Getting past lyin' cheatin' Republicans with their voter suppression and welcoming of Russian interference will be difficult, but Liz Warren is our best chance.
She is vastly different from Hillary Clinton, and smart as a whip. We need her.
--
But praise to Bret Stephens for making good points; an old-style Republican of sorts. He still needs to wean himself from Pielke Jr. & Lomborg with their dangerous dishonesty about the difficulties we face and their profit-based advocacy for stuff that is magic thinking at best. Let's all get rich (ignore the world's billions in poverty and climate injustice) and fix it later, or some scientist will think up sumthin' - fuhgettabahtit.
Magic thinking is not the way. Aesop's frogs who wanted a king should be a cautionary tale now. We should stop worshipping predatory wealth and power as it removes value from our economy and our polity, just because the cosmetics look OK. We live in a 3D world, and 2D doesn't cut it in a storm, flood, fire, famine, what have you.
3
Bernie for President. 25 million bucks from over a million people in one quarter agree :-)
Eat your hearts out Bret and Gail.
5
Democrats...please support & nominate your most moderate candidate. One that will collect the most swing votes. One that won't scare away those same swing votes. This is no time for ideological purity. That can come later. DT must be defeated NOW.
5
Oh, get over it. Warren is the best candidate, just as Hillary was the last time.
I suppose that means the electoral college will hand the election to the worst again.
6
If David Leonhardt is right ("The Secret to Winning in 2020, It’s the populism, stupid", NYT, Dec. 16, 2018, very informative graphs), then who would be a better candidate than either Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders.
And if Ian Haney López is right ("How to Beat Trump at His Own Game, To fight back against the president’s racist policies, we also have to talk about class", NYT, Oct. 15, 2019, 1:58 p, very interesting research), then who could better combat Republican 'dog-whistle racism' than those who already talk about both class and race in their populist approach to economic reform.
Both these columnists should comment on these two important NYT columns when asserting which candidates will or won't divide or unite the original Democratic coalition.
4
It's time to reconsider some of the lesser Democratic candidates who have fallen by the wayside including Bennet and Inslee. Heck, at this point I'd either welcome John Kasich into the Democratic tent or even encourage Andrew Cuomo to declare. Biden is floundering. Sanders is ill. Warren is Hilllary 2.0. And the rest of the field are completely unelectable.
4
Can we dispel this mythical notion that Biden, or any "moderate" Democrat for that matter, will magically be able get congress to pass legislation with a republican majority in either chamber, while a progressive would not?
Take a look at the Obama years for a clue on what you can expect from Republicans. Obama/Biden even literally put forth Republican policies, such as subsidies for the purchase of for-profit health insurance (2010), the Simpson-Bowles deficit commission plan to reduce spending (2011) by 3 trillion over 10 years, and comprehensive immigration reform (2013) which was practically a copy/paste of the Republican plan from the early 2,000's under G.W. Bush.
Also take a look at how Republicans reacted to Democrats wo supported those policies. Republicans proceeded to call any Democrat supporting these socialists, communists, and worse.
Guess what? Republicans are going to try to block anything Democrats propose, and will call Democrats socialist no matter what the Democrats propose!
12
Elizabeth Warren is, by far, running the best campaign. She has masterminded every detail of it, and with that has contributed to change others' perception of her as the commander in chief.
Let's face it, her plans are bold, and some will certainly have difficulties passing through congress, not only with Republicans but also with moderate Democrats, but she has a vision for the country, a vision for the future.
And her understanding of politics is key to make her plans a reality.
The comparison between her populism and that of Trump is simply moronic and has no merit.
7
We need to focus on Warren conquering the election than merely dividing the room.
7
@Marge Keller
What we "need" is for those who don't agree with you to also feel like their votes matter. Because they do.
Otherwise it's going to be a repeat of 2016, and a win for Trump in 2020.
3
A woman who was a brilliant high school debating student, who became, with long odds against her, an accomplished college professor, and is now a U.S. senator AND running a super competent and totally viable campaign for president, described as a "know it all" in the pages of the NYT, by an older MALE opinion columnist? I'd like to see HIS credentials!
Talk about misogyny at work! Wonder what Mr. Stephens is so afraid of. Hiding his contempt behind she can't win-isms isn't cutting it.
13
I agree with Bret. Warren comes off as a scolding nun. Humorless, preachy, self-righteous --- she's everything people already believe about liberals.
7
I will vote for an Anti Trump. Quals= Intelligence, Fire in the Belly, and an Ethical Sense. Fire in the Belly is something we all want and need as well as the others. A triple crown. I have seen her take on the Senate clowns. She has gravitas. And it is nice to see a few ideas for a change. I like ideas, don't you?
6
If Joe Biden is as savvy as I think he is, he will pick Buttigieg as VP and then step down after 18 months. That will give him all the cache of having been President, and it will give him time to restore our relations with the world with Pete at his side giving him the exposure and world stage seasoning that he needs (who better to teach a VP how to be a good VP than Biden) and then hand the reins over to the young, smart guy...which will set VP Buttigieg up to be the candidate in 2024...sigh....A girl can dream...
5
Why did Trump do what he did in the Middle East last week? Come on, he's Putin's puppet. I think Putin asked Trump for this quite some time ago, probably with some quid pro quos of his own.
3
Bernie Sanders should have set an example by bowing out with grace in the last race for the nomination, which makes me doubtful he'll do so in this race. Will he have to be carried out of the race on a stretcher?
6
@Peter Aretin
Sanders admitted that after the April 26 primaries that he was mathematically eliminated (the Democratic Party practice of allowing formally unpledged superdelegates to vote for a nominee makes such determinations inexact) endorsing Clinton two months later, a week after she clinched a majority of delegates. This is typical behavior for eliminated candidates:
In the '16 R. primary Kasich was eliminated in March and Cruz was eliminated on April 19, but both stayed in the race until after Trump clinched the nomination on May 3.
In the '12 R. primary both Ron Paul and Gingrich stayed in the race well after they were mathematically eliminated.
In the '08 Dem primary, Clinton herself was eliminated from winning a majority of pledged delegates sometime in early April. However, she stayed in the race through late June, endorsing Obama after he clinched the nomination on the last day of the primary season.
So, Sanders behaved exactly as many other eliminated primary challengers, including Clinton herself.
Blaming a loss on normal behavior is disingenuous and, in this case, hypocritical.
As for Bernie waiting until June to concede, recall that in '80, '84, '88, and '92 the top primary challengers went all the way to the convention. So compared to what’s happened historically, what Bernie did was not some kind of radical break from tradition.
As for the stretcher, isn't it better to be carried out on your shield fighting for what you love and believe than to rust?
5
Pete Buttigieg is heads above the other candidates. But because most people cannot pronounce or spell his name (I had to go to spell check...) he won't be elected. And the other shameful reason he won't be elected is he is gay. Two pitiful reasons. But I sure do wish Elizabeth Warren-Mayor Pete will be on the ticket. The winning ticket.
2
I think all the candidates should be asked, of all the plans they are putting forth, what the *one most important plan* is. Or maybe the two most important. Because most of the plans won't be carried out, at least not in one term. As a voter, I want addressing climate change to be #1, and fixing the US healthcare system to be #2. But all the candidates should be asked and not allowed to waffle on the answer.
2
As a general rule, if Brett Stephens is for it, I know that is probably something to be avoided. So, he does serve a purpose (albeit a negative one). When he says Warren would be an appalling choice and is unelectable I am pretty sure that the opposite is probably true. He is very reliable that way.
4
"I see her as the left-wing answer to Trump, minus the ethnic bigotry and sophomoric narcissism"
What is Trump without ethnic bigotry and sophomoric narcissism??
8
Let's see ... he makes a false equivilancy about comparing Warren & Trump. Then tells you why they might be different.
Pity Républicains ... so confused [& dishonest!].
9
It's a neo-liberal feel good fest! If Elizabeth Warren is too "left" for you, both of you are clueless as to what's been happening to the middle class these past five decades. Back to the status quo, that's the spirit! How clueless and obtuse can you two be? The real reason that Trump won the presidency is because the working class is being beaten to a pulp by the American Corporatocracy and the oligarchy. My God, it's this kind of thinking that will always make the Democratic party irrelevant.
9
In the last 32 years the conservatives have put up neo-cons (more like neo-fascists) that have won by a minority vote. Started never ending wars of choice, run the economy into the ditch and when not in the White House have run the most hateful racist smears against the Democratic party we have ever seen. Until now, when they have upped themselves on the racist hateful smear campaigns while they hold the White House and Supreme Court too. Their excuse is well politics is a hard ball sport and anything goes to get power, hold power and while not saying it still follow Gorden Geckos mountra Geed is Good. Then a mild ,but true reformer comes along and they are all it a tither that she is a radical socialist and act like the world will come to an end. (before they kill it off with their indifference to the climate) We are divided as we have ever been as a Nation, but it is not the doing of People like Elizabeth Warren. The division is the work of useful idiots like Ronald Reagan, even more useful idiots like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld and now even more terrifying idiots Trump and Pence. I don't see the point to appear to their base if we really want to have a future and live on this planet.
6
"strongman who ... locks up his political opponents ..., mutters anti-Semitic garbage, blackmails Europe, attempts to steal elections and builds a gigantic palace for himself" -- I'm sorry, I lost track: Who were you talking about, again?
6
Bret is undoubtedly right about Times' readers disagreeing with him about Warren, but I think he has sized her up quite astutely.
I also think he is right about Buttigieg, and wish that Klobuchar had gotten more traction. Can't find fault with his analysis of Joe Biden, either.
Unfortunately I am not surprised that the Democratic base thinks Warren walks on water, but am still deeply disappointed that the party seems to be on the road to making her its nominee. Demonizing her will be even easier than the hatchet job he did on Hillary, but educated white liberals prefer excitement over defeating Trump, unrealistic plans and promises over practical considerations.
Of course Trump wants to run against Warren. He can return to the same successful playbook he used against his last unlikable female opponent.
5
Sanders campaign is probably moribund since his heart attack.
Biden, while in the sweet spot politically is far slower, now, than he was a decade, ago, and everyone can see it. He seems to be getting too old to handle the job for four years.
Warren has the knowledge and smarts to serve but she lack the political astuteness that enables Presidents to accomplish their goals. Worse, she has a self-righteousness about her proposals than make them sound like she thinks that they are the only way to solve the problems, and anyone negatively affected better learn to suck it up. She's going to lose unless she convinces people that she is open to listening to others rather than just telling them what is good for them.
4
The French newspaper Le Monde published an article this morning about the sex parity going too slow in Europe with the place of women in France evaluated at 75 % of men's privileges, while 83 in the nordic countries. England and Germany behind with 72 and 66 respectively. Italy far below at 63 % but progressing fast and Greece and Hungary closing at 50 %.
It seems also that if women had a better place in the USA, there would be a health system and may be the general capitalist ideology and US economies would not be so inequality producing.
Crime would be lower ( it is now 8 times superior to Europe average per capita ) incarceration would be lower ( it is also 8 times superior now in the USA than in Europe, per capita ), etc...
May be a less enormous army of 750 b $ annual budget for 1 million soldiers.
Elizabeth warren could be a force to empower women and men and change politics and society in the USA towards a better life and economy . economy is not money. it is exchange.
Today the exchanges have never been so inexistant. Money does not circulate. Women have a much better ability to make the energy circulate in general.
2
Bret the same reasons you mention you could vote for Biden apply to Warren & we all have to agree with Gail that if we don't aim for the stars we're not going to get 1/2 of what we want. I don't think anyone seriously thinks private health care is going to be "yanked away" from anyone. Warren is practical and she'll find a way. Mayer Pete would be great in the Cabinet or VP maybe.. but he's definitely got a future. As far as Warren not being able to win the - I think that's a bunch of Malarkey as Joe would say. Trump is only getting weaker. Republicans will eventually pay for standing by Trump unchecked. They literally have blood on their hands to go with the mother of all deficits.
7
Here you can read the intellectual instability of Americans and the lack of causality in their political conscience.
That ineptitude has been the force for electing Trump by replacing politics by mysticism. And now it is very difficult from there to envision anything. The democrats are divided and with so disparate positions, or even rather beliefs, instead of conceptual analysis, that the election will be again a game of pawn.
1
One wonders what Bret Stephens would have thought of FDR and his grandiose plans? We would never have had Social Security, Medicare, and all the other society transforming (for the better) programs brought about by the New Deal. But it seems like Bret is too comfortable with status quo and anything that questions that in a significant way - as Warren's plans do - is too scary for him. How disappointing.
8
@Jamie The difference is that FDR knew the trouble the country was in and knew it required action -- action -- not plans and pie-in-the-sky dreams. He got it done because he understood that, and took action. Check out Amy Klobuchar's List she will get done within her first 100 days. We need that kind of leadership that will immediately put our country back on track and undo the damage done by Trump. Klobuchar has gotten more legislation passed than any other senator. And she has won every race she has entered. She will beat Trump, and she will be a strong, smart, get-it-done President.
2
If you thought 2016 was an embarrassment for the DNC, and if you thought HRC was a poor choice, wait until 2020: Trump will utterly crush Warren (or any one else in the current line up). That is, the American public will reject her roundly: she is clearly unstable, out of touch, radical and with a platform of plans that will not capture moderates, swing, right-leaning Dems or left-leaning Repubs. The DNC is a bankrupt organization, or at least captured by interests that are radically divergent from core US voters, corporations and interests.
3
@Matt Andersson
While I not only roundly disagree with your assessment, I find it hard to imagine any organization more "bankrupt" and corrupt than the G.O.P. and the president that represents it.
7
@N. Smith
And don't forget 'unstable.'
2
I want Warren because she is INTELLIGENT, gets hard topics, and WORKS with people. Yes, we all understand that many of her proposals will not fly, but she is the best choice at present.
9
@bacrofton OK, but if you don’t get Warren will you vote for whoever is the nominee and do your part to defeat trump?
1
It used to be that a politician was vulnerable based on their record while in government. How is it even conceivable that any person could give Trump their vote after these 3 years? While it might be easy to criticize the democrats on for their records (Booker for one, Butigieg for not a big one), or for their ideas, these criticisms are asymmetrical (warfare). Trump should be flattened by any one of the democrats.
Reporters should stop with the horse race talk, and actually analyze the ideas and records for what has been achieved, not for the votes they might or might not get, nor for their likely or unlikely win over Trump. Help the people learn something, and consider their alternatives. Columns like these, as fun as they are to read (agree about Golden retrievers), are dangerous, and stultifying approach to opinion writing.
3
Trump went after Biden because Trump knows that it is
Biden who can defeat him.
If Warren is the nominee, the country can expect
four more years of Trump.
If Democrats want to win the General Election , which is critical given that the country has a dangerous , evil man as President, Democrats need an electable candidate , which means a moderate Democrat such as Biden.
If Democrats want to hand the election to Trump, Democrats should choose Warren or Sanders as the nominee.
It seems that that American people have fallen right into Trump's trap, and are turning away from the most electable Democratic, which is exactly what Trump intended.
7
@DJS
Hillary was supposed to be more "electable" than Bernie. Who can predict "electable" when we have the Russians, the Electoral College, and the big money in Trumps' corner? We need someone who can generate enthusiasm, maybe it is someone who is not even running yet....
9
If Senator Warren could only find her way toward acceptance of a "public option" — to bring a limited and mostly optional public plan to the market to compete with private options— she'd have my vote in a heartbeat,
4
The problem with a public option is the same as Obama’s “if you like your plan you can keep your plan” debacle with Obamacare.
If a Medicare option becomes widely available, it will send the private market into a “death spiral” of a shrinking subscriber base and higher premiums to the point that Medicare “option” becomes the only option.
2
Trump divides the nation and the world because he looks out only for himself and his power and financial interests. Warren divides the room, as you write, because she loos out for our national interests and suggests ways to further those interests. Those who support the current regime', including former Christians turned idolators (beware of the Christian who worships Caesar), are put off by her ideas. They probably should be. FDR divided the room as well, for the same reason. As one retired Presbyterian minister, I'm glad that Warren clearly speaks the truth as she understands it. Her retort to that self righteous prig who stood up to arrogantly ask his bigoted question was right on point. It is time that all of us exposed the bigotry that hides behind so-called "Christian" beliefs.
10
Any Democratic candidate is better than Trump. Ms. Warren would win hands down. Brett and Ms. Gail miss how much contempt there out there for Trump.
5
Thanks Bret. You can go out and play now. It is nice and sunny in the park. Plenty of smaller kids to bully.
5
I still don't understand why a marvelous columnist like Gail Collins attempts to give legitimacy to climate-change denier who keeps finding every possible opportunity to sneak in repugnant extreme right-wing comments in supposedly thoughtful analysis. Last week it was a comparison of Trump's betrayal of the Kurds to President Obama's following up on George W. Bush decision to withdraw troops from Iraq. Today it's calling Elizabeth Warren "appalling" and her plans "half-baked". What's next?
Please, Ms Collins, don't confuse Bret Stephens with a George Will, or any other decent conservative. Don't legitimize the hypocritical hard right.
14
Warren is all sauce and no substance. Take off your rose colored glasses and look closer folks. Stop thinking for just a moment about what she's so energetically promised you personally. Free this and that sounds great but we need someone with serious foreign policy acumen right now to clean up DJT's mess. Democrats should realize that the people loudly and vigorously supporting Senator Warren largely live in blue states so their votes, while important, will not determine the general election. When are we going to learn how to win? I am with Joe.
7
Bernie should bow out with grace??
Bernie has AT LEAST 20% of the electorate behind him and you think he should drop out. This article was clearly written by two people who are out of touch with reality. Do you really think that Biden could win over the electorate and beat Trump? Really?? What happens when we run an establishment democratic candidate against Donald Trump? People in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Ohio, and places all across the rust belt will NOT vote for Biden because he represents everything they're against: rich democratic politicians who only care for their own wellbeing. I grew up in Pittsburgh and my family still lives there, my parents are both LIFELONG conservatives. My mother did not vote in the 2016 election because she did not like Donald Trump and all of hell would freeze over before she voted for Hillary Clinton. A few days ago she called to tell me that she switched her party affiliation from Republican to independent, and then told me that she would vote for Bernie over Trump. I asked her about Biden and Warren and the answer was no to both. To her, Bernie is the only person that represents people like her and our family. I'm about as liberal as they come, I study environmental policy in school, I love my country, and I hate Donald Trump. BUT if Joe Biden is the nominee I will not vote in the 2020 general election, and I'm not the only one.
111
@Corina If you are happy with Trump as president,if he is doing a great job than you must stay stay home if Bernie is not the candidate. Just know the welfare of the earth hangs in the balance and freedom as we know it will no longer exist.
145
Well, withholding your vote on grounds of purity will certainly show the rest of us! Especially those of us who are directly and daily affected by the trump administration.
184
@Corina A no vote is a vote for Trump. You might as well do what the rest of us will do and vote for whoever wins the nomination. Vote blue 2020.
171
What's the staff count at Mar-a-Lago? That would be the number of people that President Trump has "supervised" at any given moment, a far lower number than the 100,000 in Mayor Pete's ledger.
8
Warren's smartest and safest move would be to go ahead and cut a deal with Biden to be his V.P. -- say, right after she wins Iowa and New Hampshire but before Super Tuesday? That way she could avoid the risk of losing as a woman (and re-electing Trump) and would be in a much stronger position in 2024 to run when Biden bows out after one term.
7
Would Elizabeth Warren on the very far left of the general electorate in America actually win a majority of the electoral college in November 2020, or would she simply facilitate the existential threat of a 2nd Trump presidential term? She has almost no endorsements from elected Democrats. Why is she even running?
4
Bret Stephens doesn't have much credibility. With Warren as with climate science, he seems to have a buttered side somewhere. Could it be being born rich, he doesn't want himself or any rich friends to pay more taxes?
If he doesn't think climate change is a threat, I suggest he step on down to Battery Park and contemplate how deep the water will be when the icecaps melt.
5
Warren is a great human, and capable politician. But she will never be POTUS. The honor of first woman president will go to Nikki Haley. She's a smart right-of-center conservative that attracts the votes of independent men and women . . . and because she's a Republican, she appeals to conservative men if forced to choose between her and anyone with a "D" in front of their name.
5
And Ms. Haley is planning her 2020 announcement when exactly?
As other commenters have noted, we are more than a little tired of Republicans trying to tell Democrats whom to nominate for President.
Why don’t you Republicans try running some decent candidates of your own?
14
Haley is not “right of center.” She is a true believing ultra right wing fanatic, just like all the other republicans these days. There is no such thing as a “right of center conservative” anymore. Not sure why you haven’t figured that out. Maybe you are too far to the right to see where the center really is?
3
Based on everything I've heard, seen or read about the candidates, I believe a Warren-Buttigieg ticket could be a winning one as long as they have the strength to overcome Trump's gosh awful mouth and Fox News. I would be nice to have some sanity back in our country. I'm 80 years-old and worn out from all of the insanity of Trump and this administration.
11
Listen Up!!!! Remember I explained it here first.
Trump may get impeached but if that happens;
Pence becomes President.
Pence pardons Trump and appoints him Vice President.
Pence resigns.
Trump becomes President and appoints Pence as his Vice President.
Media has predictable meltdown and tears begin.
3
@RS
No. You didn't explain it here first.
Anyone with a cursory knowledge of succession knows the drill.
But what we don't know is what will happen if Trump doesn't go willingly if he's either impeached or not reelected.
That's when the real meltdown and tears will begin...Ours.
1
@RS
Here is what you need to know:
Trump gets Impeached by the House, Acquitted by the Senate.
Trump gets Re-Elected for another 4 years then:
We either have Pence or Haley for the next 8.
Or
Trump gets Impeached by the House. Convicted by the Senate. Pence becomes President. Incumbent Republicans who voted to Convict lose their seats if they are up for re-election in 2020 but control of the Senate remains in Republican hands. House flips and Pence has both chambers with Filibuster proof majority. Democrats never win another Presidential Election for at least the next 12 years.
Take your pick. I will be smiling either way.
You should get into the roulette betting business. Adelson needs more patsies to find his pet project :-)
1
Moody Analytics, from the financial firm Moody's, projects a runaway victory for Trump. That's based on the economy. Remember "it's the economy, stupid." A downward change wouldn't be good for him. It's a special challenge for Elizabeth Warren who has lots of ideas about the economy, some quite off the beaten track. Voters may ask, why take a chance with Warren's ideas which seem new to them when Trump's economy is good. It may all boil down to that.
3
Moody’s :-). They had an inversement grade rating on Enron as it was going under. Pick a better source for your forecasts.
6
@Blunt
Lost money on Enron?
Moody's claims their presidential analyses have been correct since 1980 except for 2016 and pinpoint a few significant counties in Pennsylvania as trendsetters.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/15/moodys-trump-on-his-way-to-an-easy-2020-win-if-economy-holds-up.html
My dream ticket would be Warren and Buttigieg as VP.
And after 8 years of that administration, Buttigieg will be ready for the big prize, aka presidency.
6
No debate on the Trumpublican side. Bought and paid for.
2
Bret's misogyny is showing clear as day and it is UGLY to behold. And disappointing. But not surprising.
15
If Warren loses, there won't be a woman president for twenty years.
Then again, that red meat chef Liz Cheney might get there first.
1
Thank you, Gail and Bret. Your conversations are the best part of a bad day. Good luck with your book tour, Gail. Bret, you are absolutely right about Warren. Trump dreams of running against her and her pie in the sky ideas. Klobachar and Mayor Pete - Right on!
5
It is 2019 and America is partnered with Saudi Arabia, Russia , China and several other autocracies to bring back colonialism and re-establish the rule of superior force to subjugate the world.
The world has serious problems to confront and China, Russia, and the USA are not countries I look to for problem solving, they are the problem not the solution. Time goes only in one direction and we have scientific solutions to all our problems.
We can feed all the world's hungry with sustainable agriculture, we can eliminate our need to burn fossil fuels, and zero population growth makes it possible for the 71 year old to see maximum population long before I hit 100.
There is something wrong with our philosophy and politics that sees us on the verge of disaster when science holds the key to an unbelievably rich and rewarding future and we are ready to snatch complete and total disaster from the jaws of victory.
When the richest country that ever was is disintegrating before our eyes maybe a look in the mirror should be number one on the agenda. Why can't the richest country that ever was educate and provide opportunity to make the lives of all its citizens the best it can be? What is wrong with the self evident truths of providing everyone the means of attaining their best possible opportunity of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
8
@Montreal Moe
Thanks for this thoughtful comment. I think it's the political philosophy and economic system of capitalism that is the problem here. It's based on and promotes self-interested human propensities, like competition, as opposed to cooperation/altruism, another fundamental, evolved human propensity that, imo, should be reinforced by our economic and political systems. Maybe this comment will actually get posted here because it does not challenge Elizabeth Warren's candidacy (like my other six that are still at large since eight this morning).
4
The right's usual, and curiously complex congenital aversion to women rears its ugly head in a number of ways, especially among the Stephens' folks. As for Liz Warren, YOIU GO, GIRL!!!
16
I don't understand why folks think a progressive can't win. The playbook went out when Trump won. Elizabeth has just as much of a shot as Trump did -- but even more so, as she actually has what it takes -- no fear and more than an idea of how this stuff works and how we can potentially pull it off. You have to aim high! And remember -- it wasn't the moderates that helped bring the Dems the House in 2018 -- it was the firing-up of the left, not placating the middle. And please don't equate Warren with Clinton -- just because they are both women, doesn't make them the same (far from it). All this being said though -- don't get me wrong -- I'll get behind whomever gets the nomination. I think my millennial cohorts would agree.
14
The big question is how does Bret manage to keep his job given how reactionary and out of touch he is? He might represent a minority of clueless old white men but his contribution, perhaps like theirs, doesn't clarify anything except the fact that they are bigoted misogynistic and it's very hard to get anything factual through their thick heads..
7
Warren, a "left-wing answer to Trump."
Wow, that might be the dumbest thing Bret Stephens has ever said or written. And that covers a lot of dumb things.
15
Very insightful column!
4
I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is, because a vote for any Republican will be a vote to flush my country further down the toilet. Only the Democrats are even THINKING about the USA yet to come and seeing it as a place that can actually be better than what we've been over the last few decades. Only the Democrats are not afraid to discuss IDEAS. Do I agree with all of them? No, I never did, but I know I do not want to hand our children and grandchildren a corrupt GOP dictatorship, and that's what we will get with another round of Republicans in charge. ANY of the Democratic nominees will be better than ANY Republican.
8
Three mentions of her book. Come on Gail. You can do better.
2
"I know we don’t often discuss foreign affairs, but I feel sick about the way in which President Trump has betrayed our Kurdish allies. They lost thousands of soldiers to defeat the Islamic State, which made it possible to keep American casualties to a minimum in that fight. And now we’ve sold them out to a Turkish strongman who takes Americans hostage, locks up his political opponents by the thousands, makes common cause with Hamas, mutters anti-Semitic garbage, blackmails Europe, attempts to steal elections and builds a gigantic palace for himself."
Bret you should thank God the NBA doesn't earn big money in Turkey. You would be banished from the Times. Mayor Pete is probably the best candidate but Gail is correct. Maybe in 12 years. If you think this country is ready to elect a man or woman that is in a same sex marriage then you need to visit the flyover states. Trumps 40%ers would be joined by another 40% of gay haters. Trump would win in a landslide.
1
Bret Bret Bret, a woman can be president. Get over it, dude.
20
@Ben
love it, Ben
2
You two in the same room when you talk???
Near start, Gail sums up Trump’s 2020 bid:
“...he goes out of his way to alienate them by doing something that’s also shocking, awful and totally not in the nation’s interest...
Near end, Bret sums up Warren’s 2020 bid:
"...find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything...
For this, you get paid – and I, once again, have to explain what’s actually going on, for nada...
Since Bloomberg not running (as of this AM), things to be settled by who’s the Greater American VP pick...
#1’s – by tomorrow morning, anyway – yesterday’s debatable news...
Question is – does Pence favor his odds running against Holder, or Cuomo...
If Eric gets the nod, figures his best shot at VP is to put up an old white guy at the top to even things out...
And – Fox polling show that 42% of Republicans with out-of-date eyeglasses would confuse Biden with Trump, and vote for him – though only 18% would mix up Sanders with T-wrecks...
More so, Shep Smith says Biden would confuse himself with Trump 51% of the time out on the stump...
Andrew, doubly burdened by being both an old white guy and a pragmatic centrist who sometimes actually gets things done – infuriating the Brooklyn-based wing of his party to no end – figures he needs someone at slate’s summit that people would confuse either with Clinton or Nixon...
Warren almost ideal, to this end...
So long as no one mistakes her for Gillibrand...
"strongman who takes immigrants hostage, wants to locks up his political opponents by the thousands, makes common cause with our enemies, mutters anti-Semitic garbage, blackmails Europe, attempts to steal elections and builds a gigantic palace for himself."
Trump?
Pretty close, with the changing of a few words I did.
How sickening is that? America, the once "Shining city on a hill being led by a thug who would do anything, sell out anyone, to get what he wants. And more sickening is that 40% of the country supports him and his actions! How far we have fallen!
Who will raise us up? Anyone? Or is every American infected with "Me-ism", concerned only with themselves and what others can do for them? Sixty years ago JFK told us; "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what YOU can do for your country". Where are the people in the streets, the open protests, the sit ins, the demonstrations that shake up the Status Quo and wrought seismic changes to America? Who, or what, are you waiting for America? If YOU don't change things, then you'll have to live with the change that gets forced upon you, and be an enabler of whatever new low we sink to.
This is not a time for anyone to sit on the sidelines and hope something changes. That is the role of victim, and victims cede their power to change their lives. Perhaps that's the greatest tragedy of all: America used to be the example of how to change the world for the better; now we just follow the path of least resistance.
2
Not a word on Hunter Biden?
3
@JCB
Hunter Biden isn't running for President.
4
Pete Buttigieg / Stacey Abrams 2020
2
You might as well have said Groucho Marx and Lucille Ball!
2
Bret Stephens still has doubts about impeachment—Dems better run for cover!
Every Democrat that raised their hand to the question "Would you give free healthcare to illegal immigrants." is toast.
5
Elizabeth Warren divides the room while Tulsi Gabbard unites it.
1
Brett Stephens can be explained by reading another opinion piece in today's NYT Opinion section:
"Why Are Democrats Jilting G.O.P. Voters Who Want to Like Them?"
In this opinion, Ericka Andersen laments that there are so many Republicans who want to like the Democrats and would gladly vote for a Democrat if only the Democrats were Pro Life. It's simple, Democrats should become what was in the distant past a thing known as a moderate Republican.
Since there aren't any moderate Republicans currently in elected offices anymore, it apparently is the Democrats' responsibility for nurturing these disaffected moderate Republicans by forsaking their Pro Choice platform just to gain their votes. In other words, regardless what Trump and the reactionary wing of the Republican Party do on a daily basis, these moderate Republicans won't consider voting for Democrats until that one condition is met. In short, to gain Ericka Andersen's vote, Democrats must become Pro Life Republicans.
Stephens has the same problem, he won't have a problem with voting for a Democrat as long as the Democrat in question is really a Republican in practice.
Must be nice to be in a position to demand total adherence to a position or you won't vote or you'll vote for Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/opinion/democrats-debate-republicans.html
6
Trump is terrified of a one on one with Warren. He will not debate her. He just wont. He will name-call her and make fun of her and be misogynistic in his ads and his tweets and his rambling lawn talks. But he will not share a stage with her. She terrifies him.
7
Time out -- Brett's critique of Warren is she's a "know it all?" Why just because she knows a lot more than him? This urge to elect the dumbest person who won't make anyone feel inferior is absurd. If it was your favorite team, would you want someone who didn't know more than you about baseball to be the manager or general manager? That said, I don't want to have to vote for her either. As a Dem, I do believe she will
7
Bret,
I admire your writing, your sharp intelligence, your knowledge. I’m liberal, but if you espouse an opinion that is different from what I would tend to believe (hate that word – I try not to believe, just conclude based on evidence, but not being an expert on much I have to rely on people like you) I almost always re-examine my position in light of your reasoning. That’s why it really disappoints me when you seem to be...unreasonable, let’s say. Why do you call Warren’s plans half-baked? Are they not probably the most elaborate, detailed, and evidence-based of any candidate’s? Doesn’t she rely on experts to conceive them? Ok, she’s not perfect, I guess, letting certain of her positions be influenced by politics (school vouchers, for instance), but isn’t she the most – by far – intellectually sound candidate? Reasonable people can probably disagree, but “half-baked”? It sounds as though you have other reasons for opposing her, ideological and perhaps more.
Of course, who knows if they could be passed into law. But why not start with ideals, and then compromise where necessary?
13
It's certainly looks like we're between a rock and a hard place when it comes to a Democratic ticket. Here's a few combinations for thought and to throw into the mix: Biden/Klobuchar; Biden/Warren (should she lose the nomination); Klobuchar/Buttigieg; Biden/Harris (she's tough enough to go up against Trump) - and, then, maybe a few unknown surprises to come along in the next year. But, remember one thing: We must get rid of the corrupt, criminal menace in the White House. The rational part of our nation - and the world - will surely applaud us for that.
3
This whole "but he's only 37 thing" is such a farce.
4
He isn’t 37?
One question I have for him: why did he volunteer to go to serve in Afghanistan? Does he think we have any business there? If so what business and if not why but for padding his resume did he bother?
There are a thousand smarty Ivy League grads (with high honors) who can do as good a job as Pete B in being slick, smooth and presentable.
3
@Blunt I think this is about the characterizations of his relative youth, not the proper concerns such as yours.
Oh, I must have missed it! Too deep for me :-)
2
Trump's win was a fluke; he won't get another four years. His fate was sealed, in my opinion, when he went full-on racist.
Vote for a Democrat you like. Don't fall for the "electability" nonsense. And enjoy the election.
4
The best man for the job of POTUS is a woman-Elizabeth Warren.
10
Regarding Trump’s motivations, he’s not an isolationist. He’s sending more troops to Saudi Arabia.
It’s not about being scared of standing up to a dictator.
He’s a crony capitalist. Every move he makes is a quid pro quo. Russia benefits from this. That’s why betrayed the Kurds.
It’s like cockroaches - if you see one, you’ve got a colony of them.
Ukraine is the one cockroach. Trump’s communications with Putin are likely the colony.
6
One thing we know about people who have a problem with an alleged "know-it-all" woman is that the are anti-intellectual and probably misogynistic too. This country is screaming for help from a new President who has a functioning brain.
14
If Mrs Warren gets to be elected the Democratic candidate and she is not elected as your next president, you are doomed and the world is doomed. Only the 'filthy rich's will survive, but they too will fall, drowned or driven into the fire. Please, vote!
1
OK, well I guess we're locking in the media narrative that will hand Repubs another stomach churning victory, eh Bret?
She's "hectoring" a "know-it-all" and gee, female. Where have we heard this before?
Progressives have had enough of the compromising democrats for the last 35 years, i.e., like Biden. That's what's going on. And the other two geezers at the top are just past their sell by date. Simple.
9
Can't help but notice that Bret only likes the white male candidates.
12
Warren would be a good choice - I thought the consumer board she set up was terrific but Trump is cutting off the money for it as well as the head of it, now his chief of staff, consumer person, the honorable Mick Mulvaney. Bernie does need to drop out. Buttigieg is too young and as Gail writes, not knowledgeable enuf in experience. Biden's a good guy to repair the fences, which will be a big job after dealing w/the gangsta Trump. I like Beto, but he's not getting to the finish line, apparently, nor will Booker, Klobuchar, nor others. Onward. Let the best person win! From the Democratic field.
6
I have never warmed up to Elizabeth Warren just like I never warmed up to Hillary Clinton.
However, that being said, if she becomes the Democratic Nominee for President, I will support her 100%.
6
There is an argument for fervently backing your favorite candidate despite his or her questionable electability: the winner does not need to get the most votes. The winning candidate's party just needs to know how to play the electoral college game. The only people who can alter this policy are the ones who are in office because of it. Why would they change it? So clamor for your favorite and don't be upset that your vote doesn't count. Protecting and guiding its own into office, Big Money plays the voting game at an entirely different level.
1
"I find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything — all of which will fall apart when put to practice, as grandiose plans usually do."
Grandiose plans that fall apart when put into practice? You mean like supply-side tax cuts?
Brett is another conservative that's intimidated by a woman that seems intelligent and has a plan.
14
Once again I think a lot of comments here illustrate the shameful conditioning of one of our country's original sins:
women can't be leaders and hence should not be entitled to the right to vote. Thus a wonky woman isn't electable or strong enough to be a Commander in Chief. Funny, Europe doesn't have that problem.
Warren knows exactly what she is doing channeling Francis Perkins and Teddy Roosevelt. That is how people need to start thinking about Warren, look to who she champions. Warren ought to start using terms like compassionate capitalism as she speaks about economic inequality. That's what Yang is pointing toward when he talks about a basic income and how AI and robotics will turn traditional capitalism and employment on its head.
All the candidates have pandered to the "far left" to some degree. But I don't think Universal healthcare is a far left. Medical bankruptcy is real, especially when it comes to diseases like Alzheimer's where care cost runs into thousands of dollars per month.Citizens in places like Canada don't have to worry about healthcare bankrupting their futures. That gives them an advantage over American workers. Pundits and press claiming Warren/Sanders want to steal your private health insurance are using classic scare tactics (the kind the Koch Brothers and Trump use all the time.) Klobuchar wants to take a stepped approached toward Universal care. Biden is stuck in the mud on the issue.
We need change! Think before you vote.
7
My mother told me that our family would have all starved if it were not for FDR. So, I suppose one could say - I was baptized a Democrat. Elizabeth Warren was a Republican until recently. Indeed, she has avoided answering whether or not she voted for Ronald Reagan (once or twice). I saw what Reagan's
shutdown of the state run mental hospitals did to Calfornia.
Mentally ill people were essentially thrown out on the streets to fend for themselves. Elizabeth Warren is no Democrat - she is a Republican.
3
@Irene Cantu
Warren's proposals for equalizing the wealth gap in this country recall FDRs New Deal, and her passion for reigning in the worse abuses of capitalism--the fat cat monopolists--recall Teddy Roosevelt, the Trust Buster. I can in no way, shape or form see how you can state that Warren is a Reagan Republican in disguise. That comment makes absolutely no sense.
6
Wall street and the big banks are terrified with the prospect of Warren winning. You can bet that they will donate heavily to Trump if Warren becomes the nominee. She has made it clear that she will do everything she can to rein them in...and she is highly motivated by the way her baby, the CPFB, has been gutted by this sorry administration. I, for one, am looking forward to it - she seems so determined to do everything she can to help the 99%. She can be just as biting as Trump, if not more so...and she wins the IQ contest with him hands down.
3
And if the impeachment process really wounds Trump, it might invite a really serious Republican primary challenge.
I keep harping on this, because it is so obvious but all you pundits forget it. The Christian Conservatives totally control the Republican Party. They may hate Trump as a person, but as long as he keeps delivering on their agenda, they won't betray him. When/if he falters delivering, then its a very quick impeachment and conviction (they know where the dirt is) and President Pence. This has been their tactic for 3 presidential rounds, they can't control the populace to nominate a candidate of their liking, so they force a VP Candidate down their throat. Sarah Palin came about because McCain couldn't stomach the concept of bending to their will, so he went out a found someone who would satisfy them. Romney and Ryan? You have got to be kidding if you think that Romney would have ever chosen that phony suit for a VP. Romney may be deeply religious and conservative, but not their brand of Religious Conservative, he comes to those places via honest commitment. Trump will survive by feeding the Religious sharks.
Agree with Gail and Bret regarding Buttigieg’s potential for a high-profile post in a new Dem Admin, he’s a star-in-the-making for many reasons. As for the top of ticket, ooh I worry!
1
A Biden Warren ticket is probably not realistic but it would bring us together.
6
@Mickey T
I agree. And if not Biden/Warren, then at least some kind of combo ticket that would assuage progressives and moderates alike -- otherwise it's four more years of Trump Republicans and we're doomed.
2
@Mickey T Biden is not that stupid.
2
How about a Warren-Biden ticket?
3
I am surprised by the number of outlandish takes from Stephens and that is saying something? Turmp having sharp political instincts? Saying someone failed as a human being? How can you dismiss Buttigieg as not having political experience then praise Trump for having great instincts? He just rode a wave of racism and continues to stoke it. What a milquetoast man.
2
The pro-biden, anti-warren commentary here (and clearly articulated by Bret) seems to forget one point. Obama was supposed to be the most radical, progressive, leftist candidate this country ever nominated. He was an over-reaction to the failures of Bush/Cheney and would never be elected. Not to mention, he was black. Disaster!
But what happened?
4
Brett Stephens.
I rarely agree with your articles, or ostensible logic (and yes, that is meant to be a slight).
But you are dead right about Elizabeth Warren. She is HRC light. Slightly less qualified, slightly less off-putting, slightly less room-dividing -- but not by much.
Have the Dems learned nothing since 2015?!?!
There is a funny bit on Philly area radio: Warren, she's like America's mother in law. And all the unpleasant, ill-advised, poor ideas such a person entails.
Please please please DNC, let's nominate a person that can have half a chance at the moderate repubs and swing voters.
And Warren ain't that person.
7
Warren made a mistake with her viral quip about same-sex marriage, although it can't really be reproduced in meme and used against her like Hillary's "deplorables" comment. Humor is very risky, especially when you're treading on people's religious beliefs, right or wrong. She will never get the evangelical vote but she needs to appeal to all other religious folks, as she does in other contexts. Older black voters will be key to her nomination and their faith is pretty conservative.
49
@abigail49
I've been married to the same woman for over 50 years...and I found Warrens take on the marriage question kind of funny.
I think that she - quite gently - put the young man in his place. My own faith teaches that a marriage is between one man and one woman..... but I don't think that it is my place to inform anyone who does not share my faith what their marriage should entail.
57
@abigail49
Why in the world should we all be so concerned about the evangelicals tender feelings. They certainly don’t have to get married to a member of their own sex. I thought Elizabeth Warren with that one comment showed how ridiculous their argument is.
And if you thought that Hilary‘s deplorable comment was unwise, how about trump’s vulgar and shocking tirades. Deplorable was harmless. Unless you believe that only republicans are allowed to behave in a disgusting manner and should be forgiven for doing so.
47
@abigail49
If only she'd left out: "if you can find one" which was gratuitous. The rest of it was right on target.
I am sick and tired of having other people's sex lives made my business.
We need free or at least affordable and readily available birth control for all. And family health care, not just worship of the unborn. That would be Planned Parenthood.
28
Hoping for a Biden/Stacy Abrams ticket.
4
Mike Bloomberg for President.
1
Warren-Rice ticket?
Rice? How about whole wheat Couscous?
2
Republican pundits, one after the other, are sounding more and more shrill about Warren lately.
And they are warning us “nominate Warren and I won’t vote Democratic!”
Oh fiddlesticks, you weren’t going to vote for a real Democrat anyway.
If Warren is the nominee and the country STILL elects Trump because he’s less scary than the universal healthcare and affordable college that the rest of the OECD enjoys, then fine. America deserves to go down the drain and it will.
And, not surprisingly, it will be small-minded, regressive Republican voters and a childlike nincompoop of a Republican president who will get the credit for putting a definitive end to the American century.
13
In case anybody doubts it, Stephens lived up to being Republican-lite. His warm words about Biden (who's a typical politician) confirm his being a Republican-lite.
As to Warren – who is whip-smart – Stephens is just plain wrong...and by the way, America isn't ready for Buttigieg as president.
2
@dbsweden
America also isn't ready for Warren as president, and precisely because she's "whip-smart".
It also doesn't help that she's probably too progressive for the majority of Democrats.
This is a big country and not everybody thinks alike.
1
Who on earth are you to tell us what America is ready for or not.
Save your categorical imperatives. You are no Kant.
1
The main reason I like Elizabeth Warren is precisely because she is "railing against a rigged system", and has the credibility to speak to it because she has been fighting that fight for some time. The system IS rigged, and in specific ways like political campaign contributions, gerrymandering, and voter suppression. Political corruption has to first be addressed or everything else is fruitless.
9
It's a nice sentiment but it never works that way. Other issues can't be put on the back burner until money in politics is figured out.
@617to416 I would amend your formulation slightly: the trumpsters would like to go back to the 1850s; maybe even the 1750s. A time when cotton was king, and what all that implies.
3
Ms. Warren should pivot to a more moderate platform after getting the nomination, which I, a neo-liberal with mixed conservative and progressive values, hope she does.
She's a HLS professor, for heaven's sakes, and a bankruptcy one at that; a champion of private enterprise, and certainly no socialist; the captains of Wall Street loathe her not for her positions, but because she offends their dignity, too much massaged by generations of candidates going hat-in-hand with ingratiating smiles and sycophantic babble. They've spent too much time reading Ayn Rand in the bathroom. No, they're not visionary creative geniuses bestowing undeserved bounty on the ignorant masses. In a capital system, they work for us, and we're going to stop them from making too quick a buck by cheating people with sharp practices and misleading fine print. There are honest ways to make a living, including in finance.
After working for six years in a Wall Street law firm and over twenty years in investment banking, I can say the culture will take every penny it can with the least effort it can. It needs regulation, like any group of competitive, acquisitive kids in a playground. It's so obvious, we shouldn't have to spell it out.
Good lawyers are better at planning than most, and HLS professors are as good as it gets. Some logistics expertise, perhaps from the military, would be good to support the planning, but Ms. Warren's plans will work, once she stop campaigning and writes them down in detail.
12
@NLG
No one, not even a trained contortionist, can pivot from the extreme left she has positioned herself to anything resembling moderate.
2
Bret Stevens:
“But I’m pretty sure I speak for a lot of Americans in saying I find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all ...”
Bret, I’d say you speak for a lot of American men who cannot abide the idea of a woman who’s stronger and more capable than themselves,
Pitiful.
23
See, this reflexive response of "if you dont agree it's because you are sexist" is exactly why I fear the liberal project. No arguments, either you agree or you are a morally pitiful person who deserves to be canceled. I think Bret has some good points, but to a liberal points dont matter, only identity politics.
6
@Jacqueline
I don't like knee jerk identity politics either, and I constantly got beat up in 2016 for supporting Bernie instead of Hillary, but in this case, I am with Carrie. On what planet is it a bad thing for someone running for president to know a lot, i.e. be a "know it all"? It's this kind of male put down that makes smart women play dumb in order to fit in and not "rock the boat."
5
"...I find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything..."
"Ben, this whole idea sounds pretty half-baked."
"No, it's not. It's completely baked." (And so are Warren's.)
1
Warren is far superior to Trump in every way. I would vote for her for POTUS in a heartbeat.
12
As the primary debate approaches, NY Times pundits focus on preferences of Democrats for various candidates, sometimes discussing briefly the opinions of Republicans.
But there may be a growing percentage of voters, like me, who are concerned that the democracy itself is failing, and that the primary system selects bad candidates for both major parties.
Joe Biden is an example. Liberal pundits like Collins and Stephens, don't seem to see that Hunter Biden's acceptance of a $50K sinecure from the Ukrainians is corrupt, the same sort of thing that should be reason for the impeachment of Trump. By selecting Biden, Democrats ensure that the election will be about corruption. But Trump will have his talking points which many will believe.
Sanders and Warren are characterizes as being "extreme." Why? Because they support universal health care and higher taxes on the wealthy?
There a many voters who are turned off to both parties precisely because Obamacare, although a step in the right direction, still leaves many poor confronting financial disaster if they should get a diagnosis of cancer. Inadequate access to cancer screenings is probably a major reason for increased death rates among middle aged white males.
Achieving universal health care should be a no-brained. Yet Collins and Stephens seem to regard the aspirations of Warren and Sanders as "pie in the sky."
Do NYTimes journalists ever talk to ordinary workers? Do they not understand the importance of this issue?
14
Liberal magazine Mother Jones analyzed Warren's plan for immigration, and called it 'open borders". Only felons deported, and no enforcement at the border. This one plan is enough to kill her chances against Trump. The other 23 plans are bound to have one or more a given voter dislikes or hates. The plans give ample fodder for the lies and attacks of "socialism", tax raising, "will ruin us and turn the country into Venezuela" from the Trump campaign and the plethora of well heeled right wing groups.
4
@Winston Smith
Mother Jones is not liberal, republican lite, maybe.
The editor, David Corn was incredibly snarky and demeaning when having to mention Sanders during the 2016 primary.
4
Warren is a threat to neocons and centrist Dems because she challenges the basic premises of the status quo.! Leonhardt's column today said that an AFL-CIO poll of undecided voters in Ohio placed jobs and inequality as their top priorities. These are the issues on which Warren is the strongest of all the candidates, along with Bernie. Her substantive economic and tax proposals will appeal to those Ohio voters and their peers. Biden is a decent person, but he IS the status quo and helped to create the current gross state of wealth inequality over his long career. While he may appeal to Stephens as an acceptable Democratic alternative to Trump, Biden has nothing substantive to offer the undecided voters whose economic lives have only diminished since 2008. And by the way, Bret, that bit about Warren "alienating" people is just another sexist way of saying she's an uppity woman. "And yet she persisted!"
7
Brett, you're just like the candidates in the debates. Gail asked, "Who do you like tonight?". You just couldn't answer the direct question, could you. In neither the first comment after her question, nor the second comment you made. Just like the candidates.
Who's gonna say it? Bret just seems partial to the male candidates. I wonder what he would say if Warren--with all the same energy, optimism, charisma, and intelligence--was a man? I believe if Warren came packaged in a male body, s/he would be absolutely unstoppable. This is the very essence of discrimination. The saddest thing for me right now is to hear from men who despise Trump who would vote for him anyway even if Warren won the primary. So sad.
5
My only hope for tonight is that the candidates focus on Trump and his family's corruption, his abandonment of the Kurds, and avoid a firing squad directed at Biden.
4
When discussing Trump’s foreign ‘policy’ how come Bret never even mentioned the possibility that Trump is (knowingly or not) doing Putin’s bidding ?
6
Why is Tom Steyer seems like the invisible candidate when he seems to have all it takes to win the election with strong support from moderates and independents of all colors? He has spend good money in South Carolina and his TV commercials are adult and well done. Plus he is not shy making sure we know what he thinks of Trump, which happens to coincide with my views. He deserves too be at the top of the list of electable candidates..
1
Bret, I’ve asked this of you before, but you declined to respond. Let me try once again.
Tell your readers what Trump would have to do to move you over to the impeachment side. Is extorting a helpless Ukraine, abandoning Kurds to a death warrant, trampling on the Constitution, lying 11,000 times, and sexually assaulting women not quite enough?
I note that you favored Clinton’s impeachment at the time. Are you just one of those tribal voters? I think NYT readers deserve more than just knee-jerk party allegiance from opinion writers.
12
Elizabeth Warren wants rich people to suffer, and as someone who's independently wealthy, I'm just not ok with that. The wealthy have rights too. Let's fight to preserve EVERYONE's rights!
4
@Tad R.
She wants people who make over 50 million dollars to pay an additional 2% tax on any additional money they make over the first 50 million. This money would be used for childcare, college, universal preK, etc. Let's get specific. Doesn't it benefit everyone to make sure future Americans have opportunities?
10
@Clarice
For starters, it doesn't benefit past Americans to provide security to future Americans. But let's set that aside for a moment, because I'm afraid that argument is a little too philosophical for our present venue.
So, let's consider your numbers and work with them for a moment: Last year I cleared $800,000 on the returns from my investments. I also got lucky and inherited $2.4 million from an uncle who, between you and me, lived like a miser. Add a base income of $400k and bonuses of nearly 90K, and you've got something just north of $3.5 million. If you tax 2% on top of what I'm already paying, you severely limit my ability to spend in sectors that employ lots of people. So, we're talking apples and oranges til the cows come home, right?
2
Conservative proposal and much needed. Thats how you pay for stuff. If I had 1,2,3, or a 100 million I would be for this plan. I don’t want trump to pick my candidate ☮️
4
If you put all the Democrats candidates together in one pile next to a boiled potato, the potato would have more charisma, that’s the Democrats biggest problem. In the age of eyeballs on screens and social media from every angle, if you don’t have star power you are not going to be President. Trump is the worst President ever, from every possible angle but he has charisma. Which doesn’t make you a good person, Hitler and Hannibal Lecter had lots of charisma. If the Democrats are going to win the nominee hasn’t arrived yet, let’s hope Oprah hears the called to duty and saves the country from this nightmare.
2
I like Warren, and agree with Gail that it's better to have high goals and deliver on some aspects, than no ambitions at all. Warren's been a tireless advocate for everyday Americans, rallying against the predatory practices of big banks, to hold them accountable. She isn't anti-business, she's for better behaved, responsible business that doesn't reward CEOs and tycoons at the expense of everyone else. Regulations keep people safe too, Mr. Stephens. As for healthcare, how many of us are only one diagnosis away from bankruptcy due to outrageous healthcare costs? How many of us pay a higher percentage in income taxes than the wealthy, who enjoy all of the current loopholes? Warren gets it.
6
The problem that progressives have is that it requires a significant amount of information to be understood by the masses. The fact that no candidate is promoting true socialism and are just trying to bring Americans into the first world with healthcare and education along with a bit of economic security, doesn’t seem to matter. Look at the Trump rallies and listen to him talk, these aren’t people that are rationally coming to well informed opinions. These are people that are being emotionally manipulated using Adolph Hitler’s formula.
8
The only candidate talking about the future is Andrew Wang. Warren is another unelectable left wing fossil. The last two Democratic Presidents were both moderate centrists. The country prospered under both of them.
The ACA with a public option and a mandatory buy in gets us to Universal coverage without giving complete control to our broken government that is operating under citizens United with or without Warren.
2
Overwhelming evidence shows that American voters have no interest in prosperity. Give them prosperity with a Clinton or an Obama, and they'll run right out and elect a Bush or a Trump. Which states are the ones with good economies?
At the moment I can’t envision voting for Trump OR any of the Democrat candidates. I have seen most of the debates. Every time I like one of them, they say something so extreme that I worry for the potential loss of freedoms if they and their supporters are given power. I cannot support someone who wants to take away tax exempt status from churches or require people to use certain pronouns or women to share open locker rooms with an intact, biological male or abortion with no restrictions. I believe in a strong social safety net and job creation but also cherish freedom of expression. Neither party seems to be giving that enough attention.
1
Considering that not a single "Democrat" candidate is proposing a single law to do a single one of those things, it seems that you are the problem.
6
Being flippant about a candidate such as Kamala Harris doesn’t carry the weight of an informed opinion, especially when stated as a fact. Discussion is more than one-liners.
2
Senator Warren achieved her own American dreams and is ready to help everyday Americans do the same. Very compelling 2020 platform.
12
I subscribe to The Times print edition and The Washington Post digital edition. Based on the comments regarding Elizabeth Warren in the news articles of the last week, she appears to be the most divisive candidate of the top five. This is not based on data other than just reading the comments- but I would prefer we have someone who is less likely to make people angrier at each other.
4
So what? Divisive is good if it us dividing between good and evil. No?
3
@Blunt I don't personally think of the other Democratic candidates as evil, but perhaps I did not make that clear.
So Gail believes "[people] become more like whatever they were at 40" as they grow older.
What was Warren doing in the '90's when she was 40?
She was a high-priced corporate attorney defending Dow Chemical during it's breast-implants settlement, that were killing women.
She worked for a large power company that wanted to liquidate the Cajun Electric cooperative, not to save it, but in order to acquire its prime asset, a large coal-powered electric plant.
She worked for Travelers Indemnity Co. and related companies in asbestos litigation.
She worked for Fairchild Aircraft Corp. (FAC) as they filed for bankruptcy. One of the planes manufactured by FAC prior to the bankruptcy crashed, and four families commenced suit against FAI and numerous other corporate defendants, which ended up consolidated in federal court in Tenn. Liz got involved and tried to convince the Texas bankruptcy court to issue an injunction preventing the families from continuing their suit in Tenn. on the ground the bankruptcy asset purchase extinguished future claims against FAI. Had she been successful, Warren would have deprived these families of any means of receiving compensation for the death of their loved ones.
30 yrs.ago, 40yr old Warren was still a Reagan Republican.
Either Gail is wrong, or Warren is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
As Liz says, she's not here to tear down the system, she's here to revive it. A system that has left 74% living paycheck to paycheck and 45000 dying ea. yr.
No thanks.
6
@Dobbys Sock
After reading you post, I did some further research. None of the things you listed is true.
3
@Carrie What were your sources? I'd also like to check them.
@Carriefaye @Carrie
I've attempted once before to supply links.
Lets see if this time the Mod's will grace us with fairness.
https://elizabethwarrenwiki.org/legal-representation-of-major-corporations/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dow-breast-implant-case-spotlights-elizabeth-warrens-work-helping-big-corporations-navigate-bankruptcies/2019/07/15/06b0d676-82fc-11e9-95a9-e2c830afe24f_story.html
https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/07/wapo-confirms-as-lawyer-elizabeth-warren-worked-to-limit-dow-chemicals-liability-to-breast-implant-victims/
So...Which isn't true?
My take on Gail's hypothesis?
Ms. Warren working for Dow, FAC, Travelers Indemnity et al...?
Warren being a Republican in the '90's?
Liz saying she wants to revive the system?
How about it Carrie. Links-proofs?
How about it Mods? What happened to the good Tues. Mod? The fair one?
1
Ponder this Bret:
In 2016, I warned people that there was NO way that I would vote for Donald Trump. Yet, for some reason, Republicans didn’t listen and nominated him anyway. And, lo and behold, he won in spite of me!
Democrats should give Republicans as much credence this time around.
Trump will lose (should he make it that far) and the only question is, which Democrat will beat him?
Personally, I suggest the Democrat who is consistently climbing in the polls, has massive rallies, excellent fundraising, and a credible message for families under economic stress.
Although I think Biden can beat Trump (anyone can, really) he’a too close to being a Clinton 2... as the campaign wears on, his approval rating will go down, down down, as it already has. Let’s make this a landslide, not a squeaker, shall we? Last time was a squeaker and it didn’t quite squeak the right way, did it?
And why should Democrats win the presidency if they will just implement Republican policies?
Warren!
7
Great conversation. This should be taught as a lesson on how to have a civil debate. I like things that both of them said, but I'm going to disagree with Bret on this one, as I support Warren. But I'd also gladly vote for Biden too.
5
I think that Democrats, and all Americans, should look at exactly what "moderate" Joe Biden voted for in his time in the Senate. I'm not charmed. Warren isn't Cherokee enough to suit the Republicans, so I guess that nullifies the facts - she was born poor, worked her way to the top, and has spent years fighting the financial crimes of the mega-banks and the wizards of Wall Street. She's the smartest, hardest working candidate, left or right. But then, she isn't Cherokee enough to suit the Republicans.
10
I think there's a reason Warren has been gaining momentum. Dealing with Trump these past years has been demoralizing. We need someone who will inspire us and reflect our values. As far as the Clinton comparison goes, it's not really a comparison other than that they are both the same gender. I'm personally sick of the sexism and racism that's been heightened under Trump. Trembling in fear of Trump hasn't been working. Right after Trump won, I too worried that a woman might not be the right choice to go against him in 2020, but I've changed my mind. I don't think gender is the main consideration; it's whether or not the candidate will inspire us. I don't think we can win with a moderate candidate who is overly careful and fearful of backlash. I think Warren is just what we need. And I'm representative of someone who's not typically active politically. But I want Trump gone in 2020, and I want someone I can rally behind. The democratic community (for donors and endorsements) should pay attention to what's happening at the grassroots level.
9
"Biden is making appearances in which he reminds me of a very friendly 15-year-old golden retriever."
Made me wonder: Which of these Democratic candidates has a dog or dogs? Obama had 2 Portuguese water dogs; GW Bush had 3 dogs, 2 terriers & a spaniel; Bill Clinton had a lab named Buddy.
Trump does not have a dog--mercifully for the dog population. He is incapable of taking care of anything or anybody but his ravenous ego. In fact, Trump is the first president in 130 years not to have a dog!
Did a little research, and here is a list of the Democratic candidates who own dogs or cats:
Warren has a golden retriever she adores named Bailey who goes on the campaign trail with her and wows crowds.
Biden has 2 German shepherds, one of which he adopted last year to be a companion to his older shepherd. Thoughtful
Buttigieg: 2 dogs
Beto: 2 dogs and a cat
Bernie does not have a dog or cat, but he is 78 years old, and maybe it is better not to get a dog when you are older and have a heart attack--perhaps the same reason not to vote of Bernie for President. Just being realistic.
More research: Lincoln had a dog named Fido (1855-1865); FDR had a beloved dog named Fala who outlasted FDR and is buried next to him.
See the pattern with presidents and whether they have pets.
Then there was Mitt Romney and his dog Sheamus who took a 12-hour trip on the car roof, so just owning a dog may not be sufficient to judge presidential character.
Do McConnell, Barr, & Guiliani have dogs?
19
@PB
Good observations. I don't think I'd want any dog subjected to McConnell, Barr, Giuliani or (especially) Trump. I think dogs would thank us.
3
Elizabeth Warren divides the room? She and Bernie Sanders focus on universal health care and higher taxes for the wealthy. These should be no-brainer issues for Democrats.
It is Joe Biden who appalls me. Democrats are trying to impeach Donald Trump because he is corrupt? Does it really make sense to nominate a candidate who as Vice President saw nothing wrong with his son accepting a sinecure in a Ukrainian company obviously designed to curry favor from the Vice President?
Although the economic issues like health care should play a central role, it is sadly the case that BOTH parties are wrong on global warming.
Trump denies the existence of global warming altogether. But Democrats tend to deny the undeniable---that the primary cause of global warming is population growth.
Population of the world has doubled since 1972. There is NO SOLUTION to global warming without first achieving zero population growth.
That's a tall order, but people should be talking about it.
It impinges on illegal immigration. The population of Guatemala has quadrupled since 1960.
We need a change in morality. We need to recognize that having more than two children in an overpopulated world is unacceptable.
The Camp Fire illustrates one of the consequences of not dealing with population growth in 1972 when Meadows et al published their book, "Limits to Growth."
Limits to growth means we cannot accept open borders as a legitimate policy. We cannot accept unlimited numbers of refugees.
5
The NY Times has gone off its rocker. What Trump haters
1
Go into any working class bar in any of the consequential rust belt swing states and ask the men sitting on their bar stools if they would vote for Warren. I don't care how many "good plans" she has. She has no chance. None.
9
@Judith Morris
That she has the most momentum among Democratic candidates right now suggests that Democrats are out of touch with a major portion of the electorate. Deja vu 2016.
2
@ Judith Morris
Thanks for that dispatch from Brooklyn.
1
@blgreenie
I'm just tired of the face of the electorate being a guy sitting on a bar stool. Call me out of touch, but I wish we could set our sites higher for ourselves.
4
Anybody who complains about Trump yet can't bring themselves to vote for Warren if she wins the nomination really does have at least one screw loose. Get over it, folks. Any candidate at all would be better than Trump, and you know it.
18
Politics is the most complicated of all sports. In football, two diametrically opposed worlds, Quarterback Sneaks are more effective than any other types of runs from the third and fourth down. Time and time again Republicans use the sneak - first down on Biden.
When the offence has the ball, they also have the main advantage of timing the snap. The sneak works because democrats aren't lined up to defend it - they are distracted elsewhere on a Mueller or Ukraine investigation.
1
Stephens says that Warren rails against a rigged system, putting the word in absurdity quotes. But in our country the rich can in effect buy laws to further enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of the country. And purchase further laws to enable themselves to keep doing it. (Hello, Citizens United.)
The only problem with the word “rigged” to describe that is that it is not strong enough.
15
Mr. Stephens is too smart to believe that our system is not rigged, but if he says so in public he gives ammunition to the other side. So he knows the system is rigged, but believes that any attempt at a major de-rigging will only make things worse. He grew up in one of the most-rigged countries in the world, and has seen it go to being rigged in the other direction rather than de-rigging itself. If he had been around in 1776, he would have supported the King.
The role of our fine ideals is not to be realized but rather to provide a facade of unity, boilerplate that we can all give lip service to while fighting attempts to make more than a tiny piece of them real. So we must address global warming without unduly harming the oil industry or reducing the value of investments in that industry, which means that the scientifically-verified consequences will arrive a bit later and south Florida will have a few more years before it submerges and produces a flood of refugees who will not be stopped by any border wall.
As far as people who shouldnt be president, this describes our last two Republican ones. A generous soul would give the Democrats a chance to have one.
5
okay, so bret stephens doesn't like warren. duly noted. now what was the point of this?
9
Why does no one mention Andrew Yang who is polling better than at least three other candidates?
7
And is uniting Dems, Reps, Independents and Libertarians.
2
Always entertaining. I agree with both of you on Trump. With each catastrophe my first thought is always, "he must be mentally ill." I don't think I'm alone. I disagree with Bret on Warren. She's the only candidate with any clear eyed ideas on how to reverse the demise of the middle class launched by Reagan and pursued in the name of moderation and globalism by every administration since. It took 40 years to hollow out the middle class and it will take some time revive it -- and the country -- but you've got to start somewhere. If Pelosi remains speaker we know we have some one with a steel spine who can count votes. The senate may or may not remain an obstacle, but if it acts as a break on wild eyed ideas it's doing its job. Still we need significant structural reform to revive the middle class, address endemic inequality, tackle climate change, and return ourselves to a position of leadership on the world stage. And it would be kind of cool to have women holding the 1 and 3 spots in running the federal government. God knows the men have held those spots long enough and look where we are. Think about that. Look where we are!
7
I didn't scroll through all the comments to see if anyone else mentioned her, but I'm happy Tulsi Gabbard is back on the stage tonight. Unfortunately, with 12 people up there, it won't be much of a debate. I admire her independence, particularly from the DNC, her military service, and her stance against endless war. She likely doesn't have a prayer of winning the nomination, although she would certainly provide a good gender/age balance on a Biden ticket. Disappointed by our two columnists that she wasn't even mentioned in their dialogue.
3
These two are like political Xanax for baby boomers. "There, there old buddy, you haven't really done anything wrong for the last 40 years. All the world's problems begin and end with that nasty man Donald Trump. Hush now, you don't need to change a thing."
4
The notion that Trump is a tough guy is laughable. You can bet your bottom dollar that he's never gone toe-to-toe with another man in his whole life. His modus operandi is to hurl insults and hide behind lawyers.
22
Oh come on, both of you are so out there in anti-Trump land that you can't think straight.
1) What Hunter Biden did was corrupt, his father knew about it, and therefore is complicit. Biden should have either made Hunter resign from those positions in China and Ukraine, or recused himself from playing point man on those countries -- or resign. Somehow it's ok for Hunter to accept positions in countries where his father is the chief American diplomat when his only qualification is the name BIden. That's corruption by definition. If he's the nominee, Trump won't leave that alone.
2) Bernie, too weird, too wired, too leftist. And to promise $16 trillion to solve a non problem -- one you don't know anything about -- is insane. Of course, being a carpenter and a "writer" (of what is of interest) doesn't really prepare you to opine on global issues.
3) Lizahantas. The dems want to ignore this, but her self identifying as a NA inher 30's was nothing but a gambit to help her career. And it did. After doing that, she went from an administrator at a 2nd tier law school to a full professorship at Harvard in about a decade. All without a decent publication record -- which is the coin of the realm in academia.
In short, the top 3 dems are too old, too slow and too corrupt to win. In your little echo chamber, bubble, whatever, you don't seem to recognize that these three should be called the 3 stooges.
4
@Ralphie
While "too old, too slow and too corrupt" can't get a Democrat elected, too old, too slow and too corrupt, especially too corrupt, wins Republican hearts in spades!
3
@Ralphie
Thank you for reporting Fox News so I do not have to watch.
4
Your points maybe valid (although I doubt it that very much) before Trump, who is natural liar, naturally corrupt, and bankrupting the country with tax cut in the middle of economic growth. Clearly, the points you mention mean nothing to American voters.
3
The real divide in this country hasn't been left or right in a long, long time. The real divide today is between the softest minds in America, now weaponized by enemy-aligned disinformation outlets (Fox News, Murdoch's WSJ, InfoWars, Russian Limbaugh), on one side, and regular Americans on the other. Elizabeth Warren will win because she is neither a traitor nor a capitulator. She is a regular American.
14
I have long favored my senator, Elizabeth Warren, years before she was the darling of the Twitterati. I believe she would make a great president. But I don’t see how she's going to win.
She has almost no support among black Americans, and almost no support among non-college whites in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, the three battleground states where the Electoral College will likely be decided.
She supports three policies vehemently opposed by a majority of American, to wit: 1) free healthcare for illegal immigrants, 2) decriminalizing illegal entry into the U.S., and 3) abolishing private health insurance. She has adopted Bernie Sanders’ five-year plan to achieve Medicare-for-All, while most experts say for political and financial reasons a public option is the only realistic means to achieve that goal.
Her support for these "poison pill" policies is part of a pattern of thumbing her nose at moderate, centrist voters, not only by over-promising, but by occasional dismissive or disparaging comments. https://tinyurl.com/y2d6qqaz
Can Warren moderate her positions for the general election? If she does she will be pummeled by the Twitter left for betrayal. If does not, she will be pummeled by Trump and the GOP as a "lefty" or socialist. Although not perfect, I believe a Biden/Warren ticket is the best the Democrats can put forward—that is, if they really want to beat Trump, and not just feel good about their candidate
4
You mischaracterized her positions. She is for free healthcare for all, and that is supported by majority of Americans.
1
@Ron Cohen I have a four year degree but I can’t support her on any of the issues you brought up. Health care in general must be made more affordable. Insurance of any type doesn’t matter if the cost is still too high. The last thing we need is open borders and benefits for illegal immigrants.
1
Re: Elizabeth Warren. Seems to me she has weaponized the facts better than the other candidates, and the facts will have to be pounded against Trump's constant irrationality. Biden always seems to be in explanation mode. Trump would demolish him.
2
I would like to hear these two answer the question, Should I vote for the primary candidate I like or the one I think could win in the general election? It's kind of like the question home buyers face. Should I buy the house I like best and want to live in, or the one that will get the best resell price when I need to move?
2
Ms. Warren’s plans to fix what’s wrong have the least appeal to those currently on the losing end of what’s wrong. They will again vote for Donald Trump. She has no chance.
Of the Dems who are running, who could we imagine attending a wrestling match, a NASCAR race, or a hunting party? Only Biden.
Liberal intellectuals can feel good about themselves preaching from the high moral ground. They belong in church, not politics.
2
Biden? He is losing steam even with Democrats, how he plan to win general election. If Reps think he should run, I guess they always can nominate him. I am pretty sure he will agree, after all it will show he can work with Reps.
Bret wouldn't impeach Trump! Perhaps he's missing something about the guy or just hasn't been paying attention. For the rest of us, Trump has been the mafia chief who has been running his syndicate from his prison cell, and for a long time. And if he was a guy released on bail, we wouldn't want to give him a GPS bracelet in the hopes that he would flee the country. He would have a dacha awaiting him in Russia, if it wasn't for the fact that Putin and his cronies are probably secretly mad at him because they had all figured they would have retirement villas in FL, and that's not going to happen, though Trump would work on it for them if he thought he could get away with it.
Has Ms Collins or Mr. Stephens noticed that Warren has a climate change plan, or for that matter that most of them have? They are both status quo pundits not noticing that this is the one thing that really matters in this election, and young people are going to vote on this. Have they heard of Parkland? This is also not a minor issue.
Whether you call it Democratic Socialism, Environmental Justice, or distributive justice (suggest you read up on this--Warren and Harris understand it), there's a lot that needs to be done. And as for the usual feel-good candidates, a lot of us have been "How dare you!!" for a long time. It's not just Trump and the Republicans. If Warren hadn't stood by in a deal allowing Hillary to cave to the bankers in 2016, she would be President now. She had all the momentum.
1
Trump wants to run against anyone who he can paint as a socialist. He wants to run against anyone he can tie to AOC and the Squad. He wants to run against someone who supports medicare-for-all, free college, student debt forgiveness and reparations.
Why?
Because he knows he can win on those issues with many Americans who either don't support them or are wary of too much change too fast. Democrats have a historic opportunity to win back the White House. Please please don't waste it with Elizabeth Warren.
2
I wouldn't put much stock on what Trump knows. He knew all about healthcare, until turned out he didn't know how complicated it is.
1
@yulia
Sorry. The only thing Trump knew about healthcare is that he had to get rid of it because of Obama.
Less humor in this post of Collins and Stevens. But that is appropriate since the US democracy is faced by an existential threat.
I can't understand why the Democrats haven't distanced themselves from Biden. Can they not see corruption in the acceptance by Hunter Biden of a $50K/month job which was intended to garner influence from his father, who was Vice-president?
This plays to the growing concern among many voters that ALL politicians are corrupt. Nominate Biden and I will vote for a third party.
The other issue that nobody in Democratic circles discusses is the voters that are lost because of extreme positions on social issues. People don't like to be told that they are "deplorable," that they are racists and bigots because they don't immediately embrace the latest change in liberal thinking on social issues.
The emphasis on Me Too will alienate many in the middle. I rejoice in the achievements of women in the sciences and the arts. But Me Too has gone too far, and has thrown due process under the bus in an effort to punish the "patriarchy."
Hillary Clinton's campaign accused Trump of harassment of women. But Bill Clinton had his accusers. Why is Bill Cosby in jail and not Bill Clinton?
An advantage to Sanders and Warren is that they focus on economic issues, like providing universal health care and taxing the wealthy.
On many of the social issues Democrats appear sanctimonious and hypocritical. Emphasizing Me Too is one way Democrats can lose.
People are surprised that some liberal voters, like myself, are repulsed by Warren. But this is only because American politics are parochial, uninformed, and driven by partisan rhetoric. Liberalism means support of free market, defense of individual rights, and reliance on the government to root out corruption and maintain the rule of law. Warren’s plans are fiscally irresponsible. Her Medicare for All has nothing in common with the actual universal healthcare that exists in most civilized countries. Her rhetoric of class warfare is despicable. Her foreign policy is...actually I don’t know what her foreign policy is and neither does she. If she is the nominee, get ready for four more years of Trump.
4
It is not surprising to me. Because liberals like you do not really care about people, they are interested in winners and losers can die in drive. They are talking about the rooting out the corruption, but in reality the system they support are the root of the corruption. Free market leads to monopolies who change the rule to benefit themselves on expanse everybody else, and corruption of the Government is just one tool in their toolbox to stay on the top of competition. We see it thousands times, and the liberals have yet to offer how to have the free market without traps of 'free market'
1
Mr. Stephens surely misspoke when he said Warren is the left wing equivalent to trump?? I certainly wouldn't trust his judgment on much, based on that weak and inaccurate false equivalency. Wow.
3
Bret and Gail aren't going to get Trump lite from the Democrats. If he really can't make a decision between Warren and Trump. He isn't serious about the problems America faces.
I have never supported a candidate who shares all of my views. In fact, I have had to make deep compromises. That is what most voters do.
Yes, the democrats might put forth a woman who is so scary she was a Republican up into the mid-1990's.
So scary that she might help bring better healthcare to those who currently don't have it, or who can't access because premiums and co-pays have made it outside their reach.
The thing is people die from lack of healthcare, and those deaths and the fear you might be next is actually scary.
But people dying have never bothered Bret Stephens or most of the staff of the NYT, when lower taxes for the 1% is what it takes for their moderation. No it hasn't trickled down. And if the elite at places like the times don't realize that. Then they deserve worse than Trump.
1
"It ought to scare Democrats that Trump, whose political instincts are sharp, ..."
Trump's political instincts were sharp as a non-incumbent candidate appealing to an aggrieved segment of the electorate.
Trump's political instincts as an incumbent president are a near-total failure. He has deepened the rejection of those who voted against him and on kitchen table issues defrauded a huge swath of his base. He's even managed by his gratuitous misconduct to drive away another share of his base.
Petr is my candidate. My response to Gail’s assessment, which is identical to that of my father’s, is that Pete’s age is far less concerning to me than Joe Biden’s, and his inexperience is far less concerning than Donald Trump’s. Remember! Mayors are managers, like Governors, and unlike Senators and fake company presidents.
2
I like the statement by Gail: "...when people age, barring health crises....". Aging always, not sometimes, but always has a health crisis. All the commentators only nibble around the edges when it comes to the age issue. Or they discount it in terms that seem rather silly.
I’m from Boston. Warren is a great Senator. She belongs there.
2
I'd rather have Elizabeth Warren who is still sharp, knowledgeable, and inspiring than Biden or Sanders.
Biden can't seem to remember anything (an old golden retriever indeed) and Sanders sold us out and let Hillary and the DNC steal the democratic nomination and now is having health issues.
Why can't a woman be president? Warren has experience, knowledge, and presence and is certainly capable. Why the double standard for a candidate that if she was a man- would have been a shoe-in already?
I'm sick of the argument that it's just not time for a female president- that a woman just can't unite the country the way a man can. What a bunch of baloney.
The rest of the democratic circus should bow out. Let's have Warren on the ticket already and quit creating a distraction of our own away from the Trump catastrophe.
1
@SR You seem to forget Elizabeth Warren had signed a pact to support Hillary. She failed to support or endorse Sanders who was a true progressive despite knowing the DNC totally rigged the primaries I think she is the one who sold us out.
1
Oh yes, Elizabeth Warren is so "divisive"-- truly scary ideas to Americans--like reigning in corporate and banking corruption, imposing regulations to address price gouging in the health care business, and marching right ahead to address climate change. Americans don't want that!
No, no, much too risky to challenge big business practices--like Teddy Roosevelt did--in our present Robber Baron era and in a form of government known as "corporatocracy."
Besides, Warren is a woman, and worse, one of the those smart, knowledgeable professional women with political experience and who knows where the bodies are buried in the banking industry; she is so radical that she wants to protect consumers not corporations.
Also Warren is not macho and strong, so I doubt she would decide to have the ultimate solution to the immigrant "problem" by putting children in cages, or leave our allies the Kurds to be slaughtered by the Turks as the Turkish solution to their long-standing animosity toward the Kurds. So weak!
And the sad thing is a lot of Democrats may well be truly frightened of Warren as president. Because as Trump and the GOP tell us, she is a socialist and much too radical. She might have us looking like one of those Scandinavian countries with a higher quality of life for most of its people compared to the U.S.
As Orwell wrote: War is peace; slavery is freedom; ignorance is strength.
Or do we have the Stockholm syndrome?https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22447726
3
I'm a late comer to Gail and Bret's weekly conversation. You know...the darn Pacific time keeps us running when it comes to putting our "two cents" in. But this week's dialog is calling me. First, congratulations, Gail, on your new book. And, Bret, congratulations to you, too! You are "wavering" relating to the Trump impeachment inquiry. Best news I've heard from any Republican in, well, years.
Now..there is one thing I would like to add regarding Mr. Trump's dangerous and foolish, foolish move in pulling out of Syria. I am not so sure how "impulsive" it was. I would go as far as to say this has been a planned move for a while now. And when we connect the dots the picture that emerges is the Evil Puppeteer Putin pulling the strings of his own lying Pinocchio, arrested development and all.
And...Elizabeth Warren. I still favor her. And although this California Leftie would like to see a single-payer health care system eventually, I fear it is not going to fly among our more moderate Dems, particularly in the Midwest. If I could ever sit down and chat with her, my strong advice would be to tone it down a bit, to make Medicare for All a long-term aspiration. Start at the beginning, Senator. Build on the ACA with a public option.
That's it for now. So much more to discuss after tonight's debate.
3
Bret Stephens -- Right On! 🙏
Right on (to disaster).
1
Stephens prefers an inexperienced young man to a knowledgeable, energetic, intelligent, woman. I suppose the unstated argument here is that women shouldn't be president till their opinions conform to those of the wise white men that brought us to this happy state.
To be clear, there is nothing radical in Elizabeth's thoughtful and well-crafted proposals. Every developed nation in the world has universal health care (a number of underdeveloped ones too--AND they pay for it.) A real plan for dealing with climate change is not only NOT radical but is essential for the survival of our world and for our children. Doing something real to stop the corrupting assault on our Republic is not radical, it is the essential thing. Mr. Stephens, our World is flooding and you advocate someone to toss a roll of paper towels.
Contrariwise--it is radical to advocate ineffectual, reactionary policies that won't work and deny the real dangers of the present--a good-ole boys' game that will likely get us all killed.
Stephens calls Trump Sophomoric. Does this lame expression account for the fact that the GOP has stood in lock step with his racism, misogyny, anti-democratic and anti-science practices?
Elizabeth will go into poor working class white districts in the swing states and give them the actual tools to improve their lives. If we nominate a mediocrity, Trump will tear us to pieces,
To face reality is the mark of maturity.
Elizabeth is the right person at the right time.
1
I just wish the Dems would concentrate on winning the Senate and maintaining the House. Really. It won't matter which Dem wins the WH if McConnell is still the King of Obstruction.
3
Beto is going to come out and propose that conservative churches which disagree with LGBT policy should lose their ax exemption. That is a liytearlly suicidal position which will cost us the Election.
Everyone who actually has a chance will have to address that issue. In short, Beto, making a desperate throw of the dice to pull LGBT support and donations away from mayor Pete is going to poison the well for everybody else.
Better he should announce his Texas senatorial bid and leave the more serious candidates to get on with it.
As ffor the"...moderate lane..." candidate?I could happily support Klobuchar if Joe falters, or for that matter maybe just if Klobuchar comes on.
2
The fact that several hundred thousand have now been abandoned, and fled, including 70,000 children, in northern Syria, etc. is beyond the pale. The fact that all Republican members of Congress aren't speaking out about all the suffering, killing, etc. on a daily basis, not just that they did it initially, shows that there obviously isn't a single Christian among them. They should all be separating totally from DT. What is wrong with them?
2
I'm a moderate Republican who didn't vote for Trump - also a big Pete Buttigieg supporter. Great leaders don't need 50+ years of experience. You can use great intellect and character to build a team, which is what ANY great leader does. My second choice (probably not a surprise) is Klobuchar, followed by Biden. I fully expect to vote for a Democrat as president in 2020 unless...
The article does a good job of honestly (key point) looking at the issue of electability. The 2020 election will be decided by a Center of about 10% of the electorate. These people narrowly put Trump in office out of frustration with Government (note capital G). I was CERTAIN that a decent Democrat would have no trouble winning in 2020 after the dumpster-fire that is Trump.
Guess what - Democratic leaders are about to do it again. You can save this election with two steps: 1) A more-practical, concise and well-defined platform and the discipline to stay on message and; 2) More discipline to stop reacting to every stupid thing Trump says or tweets - Trump largely won in 2016 by controlling the conversation and manipulating Clinton into 24/7 defense mode.
Don't assume AGAIN that Trump being horrible is enough to prevent him from winning. You must offer a better, honest, smart, realistic alternative.
2
Bret Stephens isn't much of a journalist, and is clearly a misogynist. Why does the think Warren is not electable ? Cant he look at polls like everyone else? Yes, we know polling data can be unreliable, but when you see the same results repeated over, and over, and over again, you can state with some clarity that Warren, at a minimum, isn't any less electable than Biden (neither is Sanders for that matter). This link also gives polls for individual states of Warren vs. Trump. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/
I think we have to ask ourselves why Trump wants a particular opponent. Aside from whatever his psychosexual hangups are, I suggest he wants whoever will maximize his fundraising. Not so much to pay for the campaign, but because it’s yet another revenue source to skim. In any case, nominating any candidate because Trump doesn’t want to run against them is beyond silly.
Its interesting what an echo chamber the NY Times has become for democrats. Fox News ratings triple liberal news outlets of MSNBC/CNN. Trump fills stadiums wherever he goes. Love or Hate it, he has a passionate support base and republicans toe the party line. The playbook of demonizing Trump is not the right strategy. A general election victory usually requires appealing to conservative voters. To think that the democrats will unify around a #notTrump campaign to out-energize the conservative base is wishful thinking. Does anybody see Biden filling up stadiums of enthused voters to return to the status quo? He will not turn out voters to polls and represents a by-gone era of politics. Warren is the party favorite now who seems to be popular at the moment. She's had large rallies but can she win over the Obama-Trump voters? I do not see her appeal in the swing states or with conservatives. So, her pathway to victory requires a surge of enthusiasm that Hillary couldn't quite muster. If dems really care about beating Trump, more thorough research is needed to find a candidatate that can create passion and unity.
2
I'd like to know what either of these columnists thinks about Tulsi Gabbard. She doesn't fit into any of their neat little boxes, and perhaps that's they never mention her, but I still believe that she is the one candidate who could actually destroy Trump.
2
Biden is a Republican posing as a democrat. All my R friends who hate Trump will vote for Biden, not because they respect or like him but because they know he bows to big money and will not rock the boat that works so well for the top 1 percent.
I think that the entire field of democrat candidates are smart, capable, good people. Having said that, I'm afraid that none of them will be able to beat little donald in the general election. Look at the profile of the man that was elected. A supposedly successful, outsider business man. Who fits that mold within this group? Tom Steyer ! You joke about him spending his own money. I applaud him for standing up, and calling for Trump's impeachment .... and spending his own money to do so! This guy is a for real, self made billionaire who gives tons of money to charity, and supports$ progressive candidates and causes everywhere. Yet we throw him under the bus, because he has a lot of money ? I'm sorry, but the unfortunate truth is that the U.S. is just not ready yet to elect a gay man as President. Nor are we ready to elect a Latino or Asian man. To round out the field, either too old, too far to the left, or too boring. Is that fair, is it right .... of course not !! But it is the reality. I say, give Tom Steyer a chance to be heard. He is a champion in the fight against Climate Change, which should be a top priority issue. I truly believe that if people got to know Tom Steyer, and what he stands for, that he is the most electable candidate - for the general election of the bunch.
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. I detest Trump, but I must give props to what he was, and is a genius at: creating narratives that destroy anything that gets in his way. The cherry on top to this genius is the blatant hypocrisy that most weapons he uses to destroy others he is personally guilty of 10 times over. Yes, he is presently weaving a destructive narrative for Joe Biden. But, remember how he handled each Republican contender on those Republican debate stages? One by one he picked them off. Remember, how he picked off Ted Cruz, who had the full backing of the Mercer’s and KellyAnne Conway? No mean feat. Make no mistake: this playbook worked the first time, it will work again. The Democrats will be picked off, one by one, until, and unless they change the way they handle Mr. Trump. I used to believe we could win because we were morally and ethically motivated— that the Golden Rule appealed to more people than it did not. However, in order to depose this ill-mannered, ignorant, narcissistic despot, I am afraid we need a street fighter. A person who can get down in the gutter, and drag Trump through the muck of his life, brandishing a bigger reflection mirror than Trump. In all my years I never would have thought I’d suggest such a strategy, but I very much fear that, if we engage simply and only as Democrats with a conscience, who actually understand the difference between right and wrong, we may win the morality battle, but lose the Democracy.
You can’t divide me. Whoever the Dems pick, I will work for and vote for. We’ll need forty years of Democrats to recover the loss of our country to its enemies courtesy of Republicans.
2
Joe Biden is a dead man walking. How sad that he doesn't know it and he is surrounded by people unwilling to make sure he does. He does not have any chance at the Nomination now. Warren may be able to get the Nomination on the First Ballot now that he is damaged goods. It was going to be hers by Super Delegate Fiat before Biden was knocked out. This is as much about taking Biden off that top slot as hurting Mr. Trump and Biden is oblivious to it somehow. Gloves off tonight or no holds barred doesn't matter.
The level of Bret's stated opposition to Elizabeth Warren reveals how effective he perceives she will be in improving the country in ways he disagrees with.
1
the left wing answer to Trump? Bret - i had little regard for you prior to this statement, and this seals it. Blind, blind, blind. Sorry, there is no "left wing answer" to Trump. There is no answer other than he is the natural arc of the Republican party since it went so off the rails with Nixon. Warren 2020.
I'm so disappointed with Bret Stephens. Why should we all be scared of Elizabeth Warren? Most of us know that she will never get many, if much at all, of her wish list. She is passionate about the struggling middle class and bringing everyone up versus letting us all go down in a free-for-all. She knows a lot...too bad that translates into a know-it-all. No man is EVER called a know-it-all. Only reserved for women.
Boo on you, Bret.
1
I agree with Bret about Warren's intensity. It is close to anxiety-producing. However, that's just personality. George Bush Younger also projected poorly, quite dufus-like, but people got used to that. (Or did they . . . ?)
1
Bret Stephens is one of one NYT writers that dislikes Warren. However, Bret does put out something to consider about Biden, while Joe's rhetoric is less than stellar, it will never match the absurdity of the current occupant. The Democrats do not need a home run hitter, they simply need someone to reach base with the American electorate.
1
Klobuchar could win simply by not being Biden, Sanders, or Warren. She's Midwestern, moderate, experienced, and "normal."
I like Mayor Pete, but tens of millions of voters will not vote for a gay man, no matter how sane and rational he and his political positions are. It's still party a popularity contest. The hate is real.
Same dynamics cripple socialist Sanders. Americans have been taught to fear and loathe socialism since 1917; and the brainwashing has worked very well. Deny, belittle, or overlook that fact at your peril. (And I love Bernie. Really.)
So Klobuchar/Abrams 2020?
(I don't want to take a Democratic Senator out of play. Another Democrat likely taking their place is too risky for me.)
2
Bret writes:
"Bernie Sanders should set an example by bowing out with grace."
This reminded of the recent SNL skit "Impeachment Town Hall" in which Larry David, introduced as Bernie Sanders, says "Hello everyone. I'm so excited to be back and "rune" (ruin) things a second time."
I don't think there's any chance he'll drop out but I wonder what would happen if he did. For instance, would he throw his support to Elizabeth Warren, and would his Democratic Socialist supporters vote for her? Although she's not my first choice, I could vote for her more easily than for him.
Agree with those who feel the primaries bring out the more extreme positions. Also agree with those who say the chance of ‘yuge’ reforms in the near future is slim. Incremental change is the only change American voters have supported, right or wrong.
1
This is a great article and i agree with almost everything said. I love Elizabeth Warren’s passion and wonkiness, but am near nauseous with her Medicare for All drumbeat. 100 million Americans are not going to happily give up their private health insurance.
It’s not going to happen and will hand Donald Trump a second term. May someone puncture the bubble she thinks in and get her off of this fiscal train wreck. I’ve not picked a candidate yet but am starting to lean towards Pete Buttigieg. I don’t care if he’s young. He’s smart enough to surround himself with the best and the brightest.
2
I think people need to remember that we are still in the PRIMARIES. The average primary voter is a bit more "left" or "right" of "center" than the average voter in the general election. This is a time when, historically, a candidate will play a little more to their base to get the more ideologically-motivated primary voter. The eventual nominee usually then pivots toward less controversial positions in the general election in order to broaden their appeal.
I would expect Warren, who is often portrayed as "Far Left" to make such a pivot if she's the nominee. She is so savvy with how she has positioned herself in this contest.
I respect and admire her and MY MONTHLY CONTRIBUTION WILL REFLECT THIS. JOIN ME!
2
Biden is shrinking before our eyes, making Warren, my choice for prez, the front runner.
She could consolidate that position tonight by sounding like someone ready to govern the entire American population. To do so she needs to illustrate that she not only wants to include everyone in the economy, but wants to make room for cultural minorities too, which is to say those Americans who are more conservative than an Oberlin grad student.
Bold left economic policies, thoughtful liberal cultural positions, humbly asserted. That (and Buttigieg as Veep) is how she wins the White House.
4
Yes! I would love Mayor Pete as Warren’s veep! Dream team!
1
@Sandra
Dream on. Never going to happen.
This country hasn't evolved that far yet.
It's irritating how Bret talks about Warren. His approach is basically: I'm a conservative Republican with zero interest in advancing progressive policy, but I can't tolerate a world where Trump is the Republican figurehead, so I'm going to pretend that we live in a world where I wouldn't typically push for the most conservative policy position/candidate, and shame the Democrats for getting excited about a moderately progressive candidate, because I want an easy way out of voting for Trump.
Gail's point about aiming high seems to be right on. Warren lives in a world where Republicans will admonish any legislation advanced by Democrats as the worst form of socialism. Obama tried the idea of using a Republican idea to get buy-in from Republicans and we saw how it was treated. No Republicans voted for it, and they have made many attempts to repeal it. Democrats are the party of progressive policy. It's reasonable for a Democrat to run on progressive ideas. Republicans should come to the table with Conservative alternatives, or at the very least Democrats should ignore Republican criticisms of Democratic candidates not being sufficiently... Republican.
3
I admire Warren in many ways, but she is making a classic mistake. In her eager beaver desire to show how prepared she is, she is laying out too many rigid policy positions that will be hard to walk back. There’s a good reason candidates aren’t usually so specific at this stage. She is having this golden opportunity to go around the country and listen to what voters want. If what they are saying doesn’t jibe with what she is telling them they should want, can she admit mistakes and give the public what it really wants and needs?
3
My choice is Elizabeth Warren, Berine Sanders, Joe Biden in that order.
I would vote for anybody but DJT!
Elizabeth Warren is a person with ideas and an ability to carry them out. How much she can acomplish will depend on millions of Americans and their support. Bernie Sanders has acomplished tremendous achievement in how American people think politically. Word Socialism might be meaningless but it is no longer a dirty word used for red baiting. Bernie has a passion for helping ordinary Americans and a record to prove it. I like him for those qualities.
Joe Biden is a decent American, with great political experience but he does represent American establishment that thinks there is nothing that needs change in America.
Democratic establisment that is tied to big money interests not much different than the Republicans. Democrats feel sorry about the state of the middle class but somehow are unable to come up with solutions to alleviate it.
Hence we need Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden in the reserve!
3
Collins and Stephens seem to believe that Warren is too extreme. But it is Biden who should be rejected by the Democrats.
One of the issues that Democrats should emphasize in the 2020 election is the corruption of Trump. But how does that work when the Democratic candidate is himself corrupt?
It concerns me that Democrats forced Al Franken to resign because he made an "inappropriate" joke, yet look the other way when Biden seems to have enabled his son to obtain a $50K per month sinecure in exchange for Ukrainian influence on the Vice President.
And make no mistake, this will be a major issue in the campaign if Biden is nominated.
Moreover, even if Biden wins, it will be simply replacing one corrupt politician with another. This feeds into a widespread perception that ALL politicians are corrupt, and this of course weakens the democracy.
The other way in which Democrats might lose an election they should be sure to win is to emphasize Me Too too much.
Many people find the jokes on Saturday Night Live to be "inappropriate" at times. Sometimes the comedians are cruel, but we have a tendency to criticize public figures, even if it sometimes degenerates to "poor taste."
Al Franken made his living by writing bad jokes. As Senator he slipped up and made a joke that offended a woman, then apologized. Then several accusers came out of the woodwork.
The investigation was not completed. The Me Too movement threw due process under a bus, and forced Franken to resign.
2
I’ve already shared my plans for voting next year and my friends in Michigan and elsewhere agreed - I’ve got my favorite for Democratic nominee, but I pledge to vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is in 2020 to rid us of Trump.
1
What is missing here is the extreme importance of electing a President with management and coordination skills, and not necessarily superb, but divisive, policy plans.
If any one thing is glaringly missing from Trump it is his inability to manage. He has no experience at all in any form of government. In his own businesses he had no advisers just lackeys and fixers. He flies by his gut, not by experience neither experience of his own nor that of his advisers. He deliberately instills vicious antagonism between his base and the rest of us.
By contrast, a President with global ideas of policy and an ability to pull together a team to refine those policies and then coordinate with Congress is the ideal President and Leader.
A President with great ideas an no possibility of implementing them is distinctly better than Trump but won't move the country forward. Above all we need to get a start at breaking down the bitter antagonism between Conservatives and Liberals.
The writers of our Constitution intended a union with the tools to work around antagonism and hatred. The present "leadership" wants to enhance the antagonism and subvert the Constitution.
I see Harris, Biden, and Warren as the people, in that order, who fit the bill. Harris, "Americans don't want to watch a food fight, they want to hear how we are going to put food on their tables."
2
I hope the debate tonight focuses on foreign policy and some other neglected issues, like infrastructure, not (sigh) yet one more reprise of the health care quarrel. But if the latter comes around yet one more time, I do hope that Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders explain how their ambitious plans are going to make it through the U.S. Senate, even if the Democrats win a (probably modest at best) majority of seats. After all, the Dems themselves are not united on this one.
4
If someone would get through to Joe Biden that he needs to slow down his speech, he'd be an ideal candidate. But he rushes along, trying to say every talking point in one minute, and he inevitably stumbles. It's not his mind, it's his tongue that's stumbling, but going forward that could be a big problem if he were the nominee.
1
If the Democrats want to be 100% certain Trump will lose in 2020, they should nominate Michael Bloomberg even though he's not a candidate.
My two cents.
1
@BobC
Good luck with that.
Most New Yorkers would never dream of voting for Bloomberg after he essentially elected himself to an unprecedented third term as Mayor by sidestepping a Referendum and giving the City Council a raise.
Do we really need ANOTHER Republican billionaire real-estate tycoon in the White House?
NO!!!
1
Coming from Brett’s Republican viewpoint, Warren is “radical”. Looking at the rest of the world’s industrial countries, she is just a shining example of progressive principles that Republicans find anathema.
As far as “electability” - if Trump can get elected, anyone can. Warren is by far the strongest candidate, Democrats must back her.
12
@Citizen ...and "looking at the rest of the world's industrial countries," which one remains the #1 global superpower and economy? Hmm... you can criticize the status quo, but to say that it is ineffective would be intellectually dishonest.
Elizabeth Warren is the smartest candidate running and the one with the most potential to upset the status quo. If she had a democratic House and Senate, she could enact at least some of the populist agenda that Donald Trump pretended to support (remember how everyone was going to have great healthcare), but never actually did. If she doesn't I believe she is also pragmatic and will pick her battles wisely. If Joe Biden is the nominee I will vote for him without question, but the status quo isn't working for the majority of Americans. In particular we need to lower healthcare and education costs so these essentials to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not unaffordable to millions of Americans. We need a different approach, super low taxes for the wealthy are leaving too many Americans behind.
9
Bret is right. Trump fears Biden and wants to run against Warren. He'll deploy the same misogyny he used against Clinton, and it will work with his base. I don't see how such a strategy gets him many independents, but then I don't believe there are that many of them. Maybe 1 in 20 people who identify as independent truly are. The rest are kidding themselves or just want to keep their own counsel. Of the other 19, how many are R and how many are D? In their hearts and therefore in the voting booth? That's what it comes down to.
3
@Jack
Trump's base is with him no matter what. That's 33-41%. They aren't voting for Biden or Warren or any other Democrat.
It's the 5-10% in the suburbs that are likely to decide the election. And Trump turns them off. Biden or Warren can appeal to these folks.
If I were either of them, I'd camp out in the suburbs of Detroit, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Charlotte and Atlanta in 2020.
1
I agree, the strategy of expecting voters to know the biggest things Warren proposes won't actually happen is very risky. But if Trump can give Warren a boost by moving more Americans from disgusted with Trump, to afraid of Trump, he may be able to put her over the top.
1
I stopped reading when Bret compared Elizabeth Warren to Trump. Sir, there is a world of difference between these two, and I have to wonder if this is a man-thing!? Elizabeth Warren has one quality that Americans are yearning for....authenticity. Donald Trump is the antithesis of authenticity, to say nothing of their complete and utter, polar differences in intelligence, memory, ability to think on their feet, bonafide credentials, sense of humor, integrity.........I could go on, but we would run out of time.
8
@GGram Clearly Americans weren't yearning for authenticity in 2016. Why do you expect that to change in 2020?
@Ed Did you not witness the results of the the 2018 election? Are you not aware that the Russians intervened in the 2016 election? Did you not see that more than 1/2 of Americans want president Trump impeached? Hillary is not running for President in 2020.
I like ALL of the democratic candidates. My only problem is to decide who do I like more before I vote. My only demand of all the democratic candidates is that they be nice to each other. The sure way to lose my vote, is to attack your fellow democratic candidate, all of whom are 1000 times better than Trump.
In order to win in '20, Dems have to woo over some Trump voters, engage moderates and independents, and ensure the base shows up (particularly minorities and LGBTQ voters, many of whom sat out the '16 election). Ensuring the base shows up is our job - the local and state parties, the state campaigns, ballot measures, etc.
The key Trump voters who may be swayed are middle class voters who were disappointed with the tax cut, young Christians who are disgusted by Trump, and rural white voters who feel shut out of this country. NYT had an excellent piece a few weeks back about rural Trump voters who wanted a populist president, but just got empty promises and lies. Why not engage them with healthcare (expansion of ACA), and a new CCC/TVA focused on high-tech and infrastructure? Reverse the TCJA and use that money to help revive areas and populations largely ignored for the past 40 years.
In my view, Buttigieg is interesting but too young, Harris blew it, Bernie never had a shot and now is done, leaving Biden and Warren. So let's see a Biden/Warren ticket. Big ideas, steady leadership, and moderate populism balanced with fiscal responsibility. People don't want a handout, just a hand up.
3
@Julia Scott Oh, but corporations DO want a handout and they got it from the GOP tax bill. They also get it from big government contracts, free employee training, free global marketing of their products,tariffs on their foreign competitors, and a lot more. Also, how do you give people who want medical care and higher education a "hand up" without some money in that hand? I can't really picture that.
2
If the Democrats run Elizabeth Warren I'd vote for her.
However, in my mind it would seem as though I were voting for Clara Barton or a one-room schoolhouse teacher in Kansas.
The 2020 Election reminds me of that short film - Godzilla vs. Bambi.
3
@Dry Socket
Warren, with an impressive intellect and even more impressive collection of answers to questions affecting all Americans every day, is a "one-room schoolhouse teacher in Kansas"? The only way you could possibly make that comparison is if you knew and cared nothing about actual issues.
Which, to be fair, is true of significant populations of many flyover states, and how Trump won to begin with.
1
@Dry Socket We could do with a Clara Barton right now, and if you know anything about school teachers, you know that some of them are tough as nails.
1
At least I don’t live in Las Vegas.
Issues- huh-uh - issues.
For the first time in a generation, the fabled Center cannot save us. The Center of the electorate is composed of people who do not want significant changes from above or below. Most either like what government has done for them, or are deeply suspicious of it and lean towards Trump as the destroyer.
However, for the younger voters, everything is falling apart. NYT readers exhort them to get rid of Trump, but they might be impervious to this argument. To them, the status quo we older readers yearn for is just as unsatisfying as a maniac in the Oval Office. By the many millions renters, gig workers, students, service workers, and the uninsured are giving money to Warren and Sanders. They are being forced to do so by truly untenable prospects for economic advancement or security. This movement is going to win eventually, but the White House to them is just a bump on the road. We can exhort them to vote for a Biden all we want. 2020 is just a year to them.
5
@jim guerin Right on. It is truly grim for the under-30s out there. Most of them will never live as well as their parents.
Will someone discuss age tonight? Many companies have mandatory retirement ages for board members. Our tax code itself has a retirement age with respect to distributions. Likewise, benefits kick in for folks of a certain age (around 65068). There are countless examples of the benefits of these retirement policies, including the fact that the retirees themselves get to relax and unwind with grandkids (like HRC did in October of 16).
The top three candidates, at least according to poll numbers, are in their 70s. This is not a good thing.
1
@teo Warren Buffet is 89. Would you invest with him?
Warren is all about Warren, frequently patronizing to MA residents and lacking sincerity. If she is the candidate who wins the nomination, I will struggle with who to vote for as an independent/former Democrat who feels left behind by her party.
I wish Corey Booker was ready to fly and sorry that Biden may sink in this Ukraine mess. Both can still contribute to a productive convention, and a winning candidate.
3
@Lydia Insincere? All about herself? Anybody who runs for Senate or president has to have a super-sized ego to seek the office and to take all the slings and arrows in the fight for it. As for sincerity, that's a quality that in the eye of the beholder. Trump supporters truly believe he is sincere.
I am concerned that none of the current crop of candidates can convert enough of the Trumpers to make the grade. That is the main challenge, and I don't see any of them actually addressing it in more than lip service.
Warren. Well, OK if she can unite the nation against Trump. Unfortunately, I don't think her wonky Harvard plan-laden approach will convert the mugwumps who voted for Trump last time. They are the ones with single issues leading them to hear what they wanted with Trump and to vote accordingly, listened to the Pied Piper of bee you know what. Her many complex plans reminds me of the military dictum that no plan survives first contact with the enemy. People know that. Very few campaign promises can be implemented through the sausage grinder of Congress, so I suspect that the most she can hope for is to restore decency and respect to the Office of the President. I'd settle for that. Yes I voted for the last woman; held my nose against the arrogance and entitlement and corruption, and voted against Trump. She had less corruption, more IQ points.
Buttigieg; like the guy, would vote for him too if he could unite his own people, and enough of the "base" to tip the table over.
Biden. Well he had been my candidate to restore decency and honor and stability to the Office, while collaboratively undoing the current damage to the Republic. Now with the appearance of impropriety in Ukraine, you have to ask whether he should go away. Think so. The rest? Surely not.
1
@CATango The goal is not to convert Trump voters. The goal is to energize democratic turnout. That is the winning formula. Not catering to the deplorables.
@CATango Why turn against Biden because of a GOP smear campaign and his son benefiting from his father's name, like that hasn't been done by every other political son and daughter, brother and sister, even when they don't actively trade on it. I'm not a Biden supporter but I am tempted to vote for him just to show Trump his dirty tricks didn't work!
Why exactly does Bret assert that Bernie Sanders (with a steady 15% or so of the Dems in his corner) should bow out graciously now, while Buttigieg and Klobuchar should hang on in the race with a small fraction of his support?
Why does he think that Biden, who's already lost out in two prior presidential campaigns and never got near the nomination, is the most electable? Sanders got closer in 2016, even with the DNC rigging the game against him.
If you add the two progressive candidates' polling together, you already have much more support and enthusiasm than Biden has been able to generate with his nostalgia-driven candidacy.
Don't be misled by gender. Biden's more similar to Hillary Clinton than Warren is. He's a longtime establishment hack with lots of baggage. Trump will eat him for lunch.
4
I am so tired of criticism of Elizabeth Warren on the basis of her being extreme in her policy decisions. This country has drifted so far to the right; regulating free market capitalism and adopting the same health care system as the rest of the industrialized world are seen as radical. I for one would welcome a President Warren.
7
I hope I don’t have to vote for Biden. Sleepy Joe is a good nickname for him. He is dreaming of the past, like the rest of the GOP senators. Why is it OK for them to use K Street lobbyists, big donors, and other rich contacts to enrich themselves and their families?
Trump has ripped off the masks of the political elite and made himself the benefactor of the great GOP plan to make the US a one party “democracy”. Was this move made too soon? We can only hope so.
Lastly, it is sad how easily Warren and other strong, capable women in our government seem to elevate the level of misogyny in this country. Clearly we need a change and women could certainly do no worse than men serving now, and for the last century!
4
Neither Biden nor Buttigieg have said or done enough to convince me that that they truly respect and understand the continuing, unique, challenges of being black in America, and no Democrat will (nor should anyone) win a national election without that. Sadly, Republicans have structured their party so they don't have to care about the votes of black Americans. Democrats absolutely must not go down that path.
@Steve :O Please tell me what black voters want to hear that they are not hearing?
Just like 4 years ago, I think the NYT needs to invite some progressives, or at least someone reflective of the under 35 generation, to the discussion. Progressives aren't just coming up with "grandiose plans" to scare people, they're actually expressing genuine hardships that the older generations simply don't face, and worse fail to even recognize. What you're left with here is a bunch of liberal moderates, likely pretty well off, who want "more of the same" sluggish democratic policy that Biden embodies, that Hillary embodied, and that Barak Obama originally championed when it was actually revolutionary for the country. Obama was a great president, but we don't need another president that wants to live in his shadow with "more of the same", even if that could stop Trump.
5
@MH Those older voters who are parents should know very well what the younger generation is dealing with and furthermore, they should vote for the candidates their children plan to vote for. My generation is on the way out. Theirs is the now and the future.
To Bret: If the impropriety Hunter Biden committed only deserves the tepid sorry he made today, Trump will destroy Biden as easy as he did his Republican opponents. In this sense Warren is more presidential than Biden.
3
@berale8 Yes, except that Trump's "oppo" team will find something more to smear Warren with. It doesn't have to be significant or even true. What matters is how she handles the smear. Biden didn't do very well and neither did Warren with the attack on her heritage. Hopefully, she learned from that misstep.
Listening to Elizabeth Warren and her plans for this and that, I worked many years and now "am able to enjoy retirement, thru my vast experiences in health care and justice, the one thing I have learned plans on paper mean "squat". I don't know how many CEO, directors, managers have triend to institute "I have a plan for that" well the person working the front lines say been tried before by a few "planners" at the end of the day didn't work why would yours be so special, universal health care, government is involved, so how many of your now private hospitals are going to want to be part of this, they will not want to be dictated to by the government, they do not want to lose their financial securities,the wealthy are going to ban together to challenge a tax hike probably in court, so it will take years possibly several administrations before universal health care can occur, seems like Buttigieg, Klobuchar are doing a reasonable strategic analysis, guns, nice to say buyback will resolve the "shootings" criminals very seldom do "buybacks' which is why it is easy to get guns from the US to Canada, getting stores and manufacturers to begin eliminating these weapons is probably the best way to go for now and enforce prison sentences for perpertrators again Klobuchar, Buttigieg, free education probably not achievable for years, why, tax hikes on the wealthy challenged, how many middle class have seen their wages go up dramatically or enjoyed high income from perceived tax credits,
2
While I share Bret's concerns that Warren is alienating to some and isn't electable... I do have a problem with referring to her as a "Know-it-all" while hailing Pete Buttigieg, who comes across as an egotistical know-it-all who thinks he's so great that he doesn't even have to come up with any plans, not even half-baked ones.
We do need someone who can appeal to moderates and the base, and I'm hoping someone will step up, because I'm not sure Biden is the best option.
Still, I'd be very weary of Mayor Pete... he's also someone who is far more focused on himself and his own ambitions than on actually changing the country for the better.
7
The Kurds were fighting in their own backyard, yet any sacrifices the made to keep it safe for themselves was strictly for our benefit? Give me a break.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. ISIS is the enemy and thousands of Kurds have died in the fight to eradicate their hateful, vicious, malevolent force. They are proxy fighters in America’s war on terrorism. I guess we’re over 9-11 now, after changing our complete way of life, creating new intelligence services and departments, waging a war against the wrong people, flushing a couple trillion dollars down a Mideast rabbit hole and losing the lives of thousands of Americans (and incurring the cost of caring for tens of thousands of wounded veterans). We don’t have to worry anymore and we don’t need allies. We’re 9000 miles away and we’re building big walls that will keep all the bad people out. Simple right? Or is it the delusion of a simpleton?
Sen. Warren tends to inspire those in the room with her. She will make an excellent president. She will have quite a large GOP mess to clean up, as did President Obama.
7
Impeachment and Elizabeth Warren are not disconnected topics: if Trump is impeached then the GOP will have to find another candidate, and centrists might get a decent alternative to Elizabeth Warren.
2
@David Rea That is definitely a threat to Democrats if we nominate Warren or Sanders. But is it forgone that an impeached president cannot win re-election? I'm pretty sure the Republicans would keep Trump, impeached or not, if not convicted.
As tragic as it sounds, none of these candidates, with the possible exception of Mr. Biden, has a chance at tackling the current POTUS. The far left candidates are not connecting with those middle-Americans who have traditionally felt disenfranchised. That's an enormous demographic that Mr. Trump still has sewn up. Mr. Sanders is seen as a commie crackpot, Ms. Warren's Cambridge-style snarkiness is embraced by a very select group and Mr. Buttigieg is perceived as a nice kid who got an A in high school Civics. If Mr. Biden can somehow extend some appeal to the population in the states that Hillary Clinton let slip through her hands, then he is the only one who really stands a chance.
7
@Jasper Lamar Crabbe I am afraid and disheartened that you are right. The election hangs on a few states, as it did last time.
1
@Jasper Lamar Crabbe
Can you provide evidence Sanders is seen as a commie crackpot? I've seen nothing but evidence that Sanders is the only one who will fight to get money out of politics - a bigger threat to American democracy than even Trump.
(If your comment had said the same of Biden it would have been censored for civility)
Of the 23 contests Sanders won in 2016 most were states in the mid-west that flipped to Trump in the general election so his popularity should never be underestimated.
@D W Hi. Indeed. His constant hyperbolic ranting has not served him well..."Trump's budget will KILL people,"We must and will defeat Trump. He is the most dangerous president in the history of this country."
That last one is not going to put in good standing with the middle Americans from those mid-west states that are now in Trump's back pocket.
Also, for what it's worth...
6/12/19, CNN - "People would be delighted to pay more in taxes"
4/22/19, CNN - "I believe in democratic socialism"
These types of statements have made him fodder for late night talk show host's monologues as well as ripe for spoofing on "Saturday Night Live," where he is a portrayed as...a commie crackpot.
1
Stephens does not want to admit that the GOP is the problem in our democracy, that if they retain control of the Senate, then McConnell or his ilk will block anything and everything Democrats try to do.
I also get the sense that Stephens is afraid of strong, accomplished women in power. Which does not surprise me.
16
Not sure how you got that sense about accomplished women. Stephen’s been a big supporter of Klobuchar.
Please. The nation was and is dividing itself long before Senator Warren began her campaign. She certainly recognizes the division and takes a stand.
On the other hand, I will concede that being honest about the situation and where she stands is a political liability.
So where does she stand? My reading is, on the side of working families and the middle class.
7
@Ted B she certainly does not stand on the side of taxpayers.
"I find her intensely alienating, a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything — all of which will fall apart when put to practice, as grandiose plans usually do. And she has a habit of biographical embellishment that, while trivial next to Trump’s, is still disconcerting".
The more people listen to Warren, the more they like her. That is why she has steadily climbed in the ranking. She is far from a know-it-all. She is a personable, down-to-earth scholar and, yes woman, who has real-life accomplishments to point to (notably the bureau she designed to benefit consumers after the economic crash). She is no socialist, although that is the label the right keeps trying to hang on her ( a typical right-wing media misrepresentation, sad to say).
As for what you called ' embellishments' - there is nothing there that should concern anyone who is fair minded. Nothing.
15
As a woman I am delighted that women are emerging to lead. As a democratic voter, I am unconvinced. She seems rather short sighted on some fronts. And mostly with respect to Warren and Sanders, how are they changing the better financial management of taxes already being collected? All I hear is fantastical socialist changes, many of which are intriguing. But judging by the terrible and deliberately slow manner many governmental organizations are run, I am not so sure anything she suggests will work even in the long term. Just try visiting the DMV, or even trying to get Global Entry. The latter is unable to process stuff due to the unprecedented border situation....really? The lady in SF airport made just 5 folks wait for an hour and a half, spoke on the phone and avoided taking our fingerprints till she left her shift and left us to the mercies of the next operator. How are democrats like Warren planning on executing wishful thinking with more of this kind of work force? I only see more taxes being collected, and never being put to use.
I want Pete B. over all these old coots. Bring in the younger minds. We need clarity and energy.
4
@Meena
We have spent trillions on the military and pointless wars the past 20 years.
If that money had been spent at home we could have had medicare for all and a huge infrastructure bill with money to spare.
Don't fall victim to the Republican talking point that costs are a problem with Dem plans and then ignore the massive amounts being spent on the military and tax cuts for the rich.
1
I appreciated this back and forth. I migrated toward Warren in her ability to command an audience, her answers and ideas are appealing. My children are strapped with student debt. However I have a sneaking suspicion that my own concerns do not represent a majority. To win this election we must provide a real choice from Trump. I am increasingly aware that Warren is not that choice and is as alienating as Hillary Clinton was. In this harsh Trump era the democratic party has moved left and many in the country are ready for a progressive agenda including Medicare for All. But to actually win the election we must represent the values of independents and moderates. I have liked Buttigieg. He gave a brilliant interview on CNN's State of the Union. He was extremely knowledgeable about the conflicts in the middle east drawing a stark contrast to Trump. A question regarding church tax exemption status being revoked if they didn't comply with LGTBQ rights was asked and he offered a thoughtful and moderate point of view respecting religious freedom. I have a hard time supporting Joe Biden as he loses track of the questions as he rambles on. But I understand he offers a contrast to Trump being decent and stable and has a lifetime of experience. Buttigieg is decent stable and a combat veteran with foreign policy experience. He will be the same age at election as Macron was. Added to the ticket at least would be a plus. As much as moderates need a choice, so do progressives.
6
The Democratic Party comes up with these types. Brainy, well-educated, very liberal politics, with ideas not readily shared in the coffee shops of small town America. Warren fits the type. All good people, good candidates. They all lose. My first experience was with Adlai Stevenson. Since then a succession of Democrats have struck out who were brighter and more promising than their Republican opponents. Maybe Warren is different. She seems on fire. Determined, resourceful, brimming with ideas. She makes a palpable effort to connect with ordinary Americans. Maybe that will be the difference. Right now, she is so far to the left of middle America that Democrats take a big chance with her.
5
Commenters: Please stop saying (and believing) that every criticism of Elizabeth Warren or name she is called is misogynistic. Politics is not bean bag and politicians have been accused of all sorts of terrible things and called every name in the book since the beginning of human history.
Elizabeth Warren can should be criticized -- she's running for leader of the free world -- and we should all be glad she is criticized and called names: It puts her on exactly the same footing as any and every male politician.
6
Based on their performance in previous debates and many other factors, my dream ticket would be Klobuchar/Buttigieg. Both have progressive goals but a realistic approach toward getting there and a history of working well with others. A vice-presidency for Buttigieg would set him up nicely for a future presidential run.
6
We are still in the primary stage. Just as Republicans leap-frog one another to the right (remember “build the dang wall!”, McCain?), Democratic candidates are doing the same to the left. Once a candidate is chosen she (ahem) will assume a more conciliatory tone. Why? Because she is obviously not stupid. She has a strong political acumen built by years of fending off right wing slings and arrows. I think gender plays a stronger role in the perception of diviciveness than do actual policies. Americans will embrace the energetic passion she brings to the race. Some, like Mr. Stevens, will clearly never be converts. And that is ok. He will still get to enjoy the benefits of living in country that will once again be a beacon on a hill.
4
Bret Stephens hit this one right on the head.
Warren is the alter-ego to Trump, in a bad way. She is my worst nightmare: a Harvard professor become President. Not that I'm against Harvard, but as Biden has alluded, we don't need a school-marmish pedantic lecturer with little pertinent experience in the White House. This endless theme of 'soaking the rich' is, in fact, a mainline variety of Socialism, and will end badly for all.
6
@dmckj
A reminder -- Elizabeth Warren is a United States Senator, with plenty of experience in government -- in policy roles as well as in Congress. That said, I sincerely hope that former VP Biden didn't actually use the gendered insult you ascribe to him.
5
Our favorite pundits are at it again - bad mouthing the Dems. You led the anti-Hillary band and must bear some responsibility for the Trump non- Presidency. Journalists should boycott the White House driveway until they are allowed back inside to the Press Room. Instead they hanging around outside like a pack of dogs waiting for a bone.
9
Warren is a Socialist. Neither I nor my moderate friends will vote for her. She’s a terrible candidate.
3
@Marc You don't know what socialism is.
Warren is for capitalism, small "c," where competition between firms is allowed to thrive. Breaking up big tech is a prime example of small "c" capitalism.
2
Bret Stephens is a tiresome bore.
Elizabeth Warren is not. She's a brilliant, stirring politician, with big ideas and a big heart. To call her a "left wing Trump" is obnoxious and obscene. And displays monumental ignorance, and absolutely no insight.
Really, Times, you can do better than this.
14
She is a populist with big plans to “fix” the system which will never be implemented, but function as easy promises to make to voters in the hopes that they will be swayed by free stuff.
In a lot of ways, her tactics are similar to Trump’s. I’ve been waiting for someone in the press to make this comment and think Brett nailed it.
2
@Jack Lemay You do realize she has NEVER had a piece of legislation passed, right?
2
Argue all you want about which Democratic candidate is best, they are all better than what we have in the Whitehouse today. I have faith in my fellow Americans that they see the danger our country faces with a wannabe Dictator and they will not give him another four years.
4
Why does it not occur to anyone that there was more to Trump pulling out of Syria than stupidity or politics? Maybe he was led to expect something material in return from Erdogan? I know this is pure speculation, but it's more consistent with Trump's behavior than any of the other explanations.
4
I'd love to hear a convo of you two on Andrew Yang. After listening to his spiel a few times, and following "the conversation" it seems like Yang would be a great topic for you two. Please?
3
Thanks Bret for your suggestions of who you'd like to run against, but frankly, they're too self-serving. Amy Klobuchar?? Are you only picking people who have no chance?...again, thanks but no thanks for your suggestions.
Maybe you could come up with some good primary challengers to the orange haired detritus instead of telling Dems who a good candidate would be.
5
If you needed more proof that Mr. Stephens, despite his anti Trumpism is a typical misogynistic Republican, you've got it here. As Warren has said about other critics, I welcome your hatred.
5
Middle East blowing up?
Ummm - Bush Jr sent 500K troops into Iraq for no reason, and Obama saw Libya, Syria, Iraq being over run by ISIS.
Concentrate on Trump's other failures.
1
What about Biden/Warren? Safe & Strategic... Thoughts, commenters?
2
@Neil like gasoline/fire - they would amplify, not moderate, each other's worst (confiscatory) impulses, get nothing done vs a hostile Congress (even the Democratic-controlled House), would be a bigger foreign policy disaster than even Trump, and would plunge the US into a depression as the private sector recoiled from their tax proposals and the destruction of the health care system. But other than that, they would be great.
@Neil Warren is too radioactive to the middle American center-conservative bloc. A Biden Booker ticket is a lock on the African American vote, which, as we have seen in recent elections, has been the king/queen-maker.
@Richard Ok. So what team and why. (With more than bumper sticker logic? Please. Tks.
As to Biden, maybe we don’t need a great number one right now, but a calming salve to the open wound of our current situation.
2
@ES Yes, we need four years of emotional soothing. Biden is a decent man who loves this country.
And who knows, we may even see hundreds if not thousands of people working on our infrastructure. Something ALL of us need.
I think this whole Ukraine thing with Joe and Hunter Biden, as promulgated by Trump and Guliani, may be having its intended effect, reducing confidence in Biden as a viable contender, sifting the balance towards Warren, who Trump and GOP think he can defeat. There is no predicting what Barr and Trump and the GOP have up their sleeve, with help from Putin, and possibly Erdogan?
2
Buttigieg would be a phenomenal running mate to the eventual nominee. Like Ms. Collins, I think he's too young. I also think Klobuchar would be a terrific candidate, but she seems to lack the fire. Warren is my candidate, but she has to move toward the center. Saying that immigrants should be able to get health care--really, a no-brainer for many reasons--but you cannot say it out loud and get elected.
Obama remains my lodestar for how to get elected. He seemed way to liberal (communist!!) for conservatives, but not liberal enough to liberals. If Warren can pull this off, she has a very good shot, in my opinion. She has Obama's brilliance, and his wry wit.
3
Our nation needs a leader who unifies our people (and not more of the same partisan divisiveness).
For this reason alone, I cannot in good conscience suppport Senator Warren.
And you have to wonder which of the 12 candidates on stage tonight could bring our country back together?
2
I would like to see Andrew Yang get a lot more air time. Watching him in an extended interview, he seemed far more in-depth and rational.
Biden is old and washed out and needs to go away. "Mayor Pete" and "Beto" are both lightweights that should drop out also. Neither have a chance, I supposed they are gunning for a VP slot.
Instead we should see a debate between Yang and Warren on economic issues.
2
First of all, if Bret endorses a Democrat, then be assured that I’m not interested. We’ve had Republican Lite for too long.
Secondly, there’s a piece in the Times today wondering “why are Democrats leaving behind potential Republican converts?
What?? Go get your own decent nominee Republicans!
1
@LFK a hefty dose of unity among all Americans rather than partisanship is what the nation needs and it starts with thee and me. What can join us rather than divide? I applaud Bret Stephens for saying he could vote for a Democrat. So could I but not when they’re saying they don’t want me and/or name-calling
2
You know I try to avoid conversing about foreign affairs
Sadly foreign affairs is not just a subject in a discussion.
2
Equally sadly it is very front and center with Bret who of all the Times columnists seems to have the greatest bloodlust and is the most militaristic and often extremely glib about its consequences.
1
Everybody has their own brand of magical thinking. Mine is, Warren Buffet will just say to Trump: "You're fired." And - poof! - we will be rid of this abomination...
2
Nominate her. Go ahead. I double dog dare you. Just don't come complaining when we end up with four more years of what we have now.
4
Elizabeth Warren "has an answer for everything" (except her DNA test)!!! DNA tests to determine that she is or is not of aboriginal racial descent ruffles one's feathers, and to many of us it is as racist as anyone can be. If it is not racist and opportunistic, what is it? But the whole point is to get rid of the racist opportunistic who is in the White House right now, so what would be the point of nominating Warren to replace Trump. This is known as the Warren Dilemma. But even worse for Warren is the Central Limit Theorem,
which means the next winner of the electoral college in America is surely not going to be from the far left tail of the statistical political distribution of voters. These 2 factors explains her utter failure to gain endorsements from successful elected officials in the Democratic Party. Insofar as Warren is not going to beat Trump in 2020, her nomination as the candidate of the Democratic Party is the true existential threat to America.
2
Good grief! Her belief was based on family lore! She went to the trouble of a DNA test! And made the results public!
2
Love the way you completely dodged Hunter Biden.
2
I will vote for her because she genuinely gives a fig. Won’t vote for any “moderate” fat cats who simply have their fingers in many pies outside the US and have shown a penchant just to enrich themselves by using their politician position in the US. Voting for Democratic fat cats would be a waste of time.
Re "Trump loves acting the part of the tough guy, but hates doing things that are genuinely tough, like standing up to dictators or firing his subordinates in person."
And strangely, his spittle-flecked partisans seem utterly oblivious to his actual character, which is essentially fearful, flamboyant and hypersensitive — the exact opposite of the squint-eyed tough guy he pretends to be.
A bloviating bully from afar, who spouts grim warnings and lobs threats from afar, Individual 1 has repeatedly shown himself to be a complete pushover in person when dealing with other foreign leaders.
Internally propelled by a bottomless need for adulation, he lives in terror that he is not liked, which leads him both to cowardice — never confronting or firing in person — and raging public tantrums (from afar, of course) toward anyone his fragile ego detects does not like him.
Stylewise, he's a hand-flapping, rising-voiced germophobe who seeks to soothe his intense vanity with trips to the tanning salon, dying his hair and having manicures. He's desperately obsessed with his appearance.
Now, what about any of those things spells "tough guy"? And what kind of person is fooled by his macho posturing?
2
With the NY Times to write headlines like this, who needs Fox or other right wing media. "Divide the Room" mocks Warren right off the bat. As usual trying to stir the pot, rather than concentrate on what candidates say and do. She doesn't "divide the room" when she relates really well to so many actual voters of all ages in her crowds. This opinion piece features a WSJ writer - yet you let him determine your headline. Warren will leave Bret Stephens in the dust.
6
Elizabeth is vastly more qualified than the creepy Uncle-in-Chief Biden. She has at least held a federal office unlike Mayor Pete. It is time for national health care. We need someone who believes in it to enact a better system.
4
Even slightly comparing Elizabeth Warren to Trump is unbelievable. Elizabeth Warren has spent her life dedicated to knowledge and solutions. She developed a consumer advocacy effort so successful Trump could’t wait to dismantle it. She has bothered to figure out why our country is loosing its middle class. Trump may be “politically savvy” but the list of anything he has done for the greater good is nonexistent.
Again, you throw out proclamations without any sound backup. Your gut reactions aren’t worthy of the NYT.
6
Why bother with all the horse race stuff? Let's just ask who the democratic superdelegates are voting for and save us all a lot of time and money.
To Bret Stephens: Have you ever called a male candidate a 'know it all?'
6
"...a know-it-all with a dozen half-baked plans for everyone and everything — all of which will fall apart when put to practice, as grandiose plans usually do."
Um, like, oh, I don't know - Donald Trump?
3
POTUS 46 will be either one of these Dem candidates, or 'Individual - 1' (per his own DOJ) will be re-elected.
No matter which Dem is the nominee, they'll get this voter's ballot, hopefully ending the most demented Celebrity Apprentice: White House ever pitched to Hollywood.
However, the Dem nominee cannot win the Electoral College without the voters in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania - be that nominee Elizabeth, Joe, Kamala, Bernie, Pete, Julian, or a golden retriever.
1
It’s amazing how much these two pundits sound exactly like sportscasters before the Super Bowl, glib but essentially brainless. Out of all the Dem candidates, only one is pretty much in the middle (the one with the Brooklyn accent) in terms of liberal justice. The rest of them shade to the right to varying degrees. If a real justice democrat were to suddenly appear, nobody reading the NYT, or any of its paid pundits, would even recognize them. Think MLK, John Rawls, AOC... That’s how far towards an aristocratic theocracy we’ve turned- the USA colonized from within!
1
All that I can say is, thank goodness that we have Gail and Bret writing for the NY Times and good luck with your new book, Gail!
2
Bret Stephens’ intense misogyny is poking out again. The double standard will probably continue to keep women out of the presidency until the baby boomers generation is gone. My generation, I hate to say.
5
Trump’s cowardly duplicitous act of backstabbing the Kurds turned me into a full on Democrat! I’ll never vote republican again. Also why worry about Warren when Communist China possess the biggest threat to democracy. I fear Free Market Communism more than and Democratic candidate.
1
Simplify - never, ever vote for a republican.
7
South Bend, Indiana is not a college town. It is an American city that represents the Midwest with all of its challenges.
Who would you rather have as a president, a know-it-all (she's not though) or a know-nothing (our current president)?
6
Yup - this confirms the Times ‘liberal bias’ - they are afraid of liberals. Give them some nice ‘Republican Lite’ any day.
As bad as Trump is, Stephens still can’t support impeachment - but he’s terrified of Warren? So would he support impeaching her instead?
Good for Gail Collins too. Just comes out with a book on older women titled “No Stopping Us Now” - and worries Warren is unelectable. A little cognitive dissonance there?
All this and another opinion piece in the Times worrying that Democrats aren’t working hard enough to win over disaffected Republicans and independents, and they’re scarily in agreement on so many issues? Unity is a problem?
I could almost believe the Times has been hacked by Russia at this point. The paper of record is working so hard to divide and de-energize Democrats, it’s as though the paper has developed Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to the corrupt GOP elephant in the room.
How about a conversation about whether Trump
should still face impeachment even if he resigns, or whether a 25th amendment removal from office precludes criminal prosecution? What about going after the GOP using RICO act law?
How about a statement from the Times that Trump is now so obviously unfit for office, only his immediate removal from power by resignation, impeachment, or 25th Amendment is acceptable? What more will it take?
3
Bret - wrong that Joe Bidens lack of idealism (direction, drive, zest) is made up for my his “decency”. Good god man! That’s as high as you lift the bar?! Democrats continue to ignore what actually happened in the last 3 elections - 2 Obama, 1 Trump, it was all about idealism and most certainly zest. Now we want to pick the “nice grandpa”. I saw a play just like this - Hillary 2026 - but this would be far worse! Sign on to the energy lady!!
2
Fellow voters! You didn't mention Beto!
1
Typical American politics. Biden gets smeared with a non-existent scandal, and Trump, an overt criminal, thug, and incompetent traitor, skates to victory. There is no perfect Democratic candidate. Republicans would smear George Washington if they had the chance.
3
I am with Brett on Elizabeth Warren. If elected, she will not be able to get even one of the things she proposes and as a Senator she knows that. Biden will not be able to flip undecided voters now that Trump has put doubts in the minds of the wavering. Bernie needs to step down and take care of his health and family and be a senator. I hope tonight's debate will let us hear what the other younger candidates stand for and not just attacks on Biden and the other oldies. We know exactly what Bernie, Biden, and Warren will say. Let us hear the others!
2
I am surprised every time I hear the usual criticism of Elizabeth Warren. Most of it is thinly disguised desire to keep assertive women in their place.
Even so, I wish Warren would stop characterizing America as a "rigged system" and offer her valid critique in terms of problems and solutions.
Call it re-packaging her message if you must, but there's a difference between offering policy change that genuinely helps people and tearing down a corrupt system. The country desperately needs healing and a sane, smart president at the helm.
1
The bulk of Dem voters in my neighborhood will vote for anyone with a D. The policies are not a big deal, since any legislation has to get through congress. All have more moral fiber than Trump. Any of them are more presidential, thoughtful, a better vision for America, and saner than Trump. All of them will follow the Rule of Law and Defend the Constitution. No one in the GOP is interested in supporting the Rule of Law. You never see it in any of their comments. Sen Cory Gardner 's cowardice is just so embarrassing to normal people. ("my" senator).
I like Warren's policies. But... whatever...
2
I'm leaning toward Warren (though she needs to drop the bit about abolishing private insurance). Obamacare with a public option is a position that can win in the general election (and it lets people with private insurance choose whether they want to keep it or not, rather than having Washington decide for them).
The main question Warren needs to answer tonight: can she unite the party? To win the general election she will have to excite progressives (consider that box checked) and also win the votes of everyone who voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 (jury is still out on this). Starting tonight, she needs to talk about how we win as a center-left coalition.
3
Pete Buttigieg has a problem being noticed because "his performances are so polished that too many people fail to notice how consistently and brightly he shines"? Since when is being erudite, eloquent, sane, reasoned, compassionate, kind, and many other good qualities reasons not to notice someone? Why in the world would he need to be more experienced? He's got the wisdom that would lead him to staff his administration and cabinet, not to mention judges, with excellent people. If the American public has any good sense left after the assaults of the present occupant of the WH, it will be to elect Buttigieg, give him a Democratic majority in both House and Senate, and watch him accomplish more in four years than anyone would think possible.
1
Always a pleasure to read the banter between Gail and Brett. Their insights and humor about the gravest of matters is often the only thing that gives me hope, from week to week, that humanity just might survive. The fact (or conjured illusion? -- No, I can't believe that!) of their friendship may be what's key. They are modeling sane and intelligent disagreement for us all. Brilliant!
2
Bret would vote for Biden but not for Warren. Many Republicans and independents would agree. This isn't a popularity contest; it's an election tilted rightward by the Electoral College. Warren is a far riskier bet than "Uncle Joe".
1
It is hard line conservatives like Mr. Stephens who divide the room, not Elizabeth Warren. She is a bright, progressive who will work tirelessly to improve the lives of all Americans, not just the super-rich.
5
Its more than true that Ms Collins, in her columns, has always (well almost always) had a great sense of what is happening in the social evolution of our society-especially with women's issues. But over the years I 've come to understand that because of this awareness in social trends, Gail also has a very good nose for who is up and who is down in the political realm as well.
Now regarding the ups and downs of the current crop of Democratic candidates that if (as David Frishberg sings in his wonderful song "My Attorney Bernie', "Bernie says Sell, I Sell if Bernie says Buy, I Buy") Gail says sell , I sell. So to me, how I read Ms Collins, it's sell on Warren buy on Biden, hold on Steyer. As sensible and insightful advice as I've heard during this topsy turvy political season. And Good Luck with your book, Ms Collins
2
Bret is correct that I agree with nothing he says.
6
Does Stephens have any idea how sexist he sounds? Give it some thought dude...
5
Bret Stephens comes off sounding like a real old fashioned sexist; maybe he really is? Too bad, as even I as a liberal Dem woman, find him interesting when he's on a TV news panel.
3
Wow...Bret is certainly in fear of smart women and sexist to boot when he puts Elizabeth down as alienating because she, he thinks, a know-it-all. At the same time, Bernie gets up in front of his fans and is a total know-it-all, and finger wagging to boot, and yet he is not alienating? Why is that? Answer: Because he is a man. And Joe Biden? Bret "likes" him because he is a respecter of our country's institutions? And Elizabeth, Kamala, and Amy are not? But, oh dear, they are women so they cannot possibly respect our institutions as well as a man can? Sigh. The old rhetoric carries on. I'm surprised Gail didn't call you out on your obfuscated thinking.
10
Bret, you may or may not realize you come across as sounding sexist and mysogynistic. Your opinions are not shared by millions of Warren supporters. Gail - thank you for sharing your opinions with a genuine open mindedness.
7
Name me one honest Republican who is standing up for what is right, just one. Bret Stephens still just doesn't know whether Trump's actions rise to the level of actual malfeasance and he thinks Elizabeth Warren is just a know-it-all, Democrat version of Trump? Honestly how anybody can be a Republican right now is just beyond me.
13
@ Danno. 1 Trump called out China on trade/patent rights and did something about it.
2 Trump gave Ukraine weapons previous administration would not.
There's 2.
What we really need to know is what the quid pro quo (a.k.a. threat of exposure) was from Erdogan to Trump. Follow the power... who is benefiting?
4
I'm not waiting for Rush Limbaugh to call for another "Operation Chaos". I'm going full Rambeaux this time. I will watch tonight's debate, consider the candidates reasoned responses, then register as a Democrat.
It's safe to say, there is no competition for Trump in the primaries. Therefore, I will assist my liberal brothers, sisters, in-betweensters and can't make-up-their-minders and vote for the candidate that will give a lot to the global citizens of our planet. I want to keep the world safe from man made climate change, so I want a candidate that will control our global thermostat. Not too hot, not too cold, just right.
And, when I said full Rambeaux, I didn't mean with gun. I meant I would rip off my shirt, oil myself like a Prince William Sound otter and snarl, "We must stop Trump".
Any suggestions?
Joe Biden could be the “healer in chief” by pledging that he would only serve one term. That might incentivize some R’s currently in hiding to come out and vote for their country with the thought in mind that far left policies would not be on the table, that the 2024 race would be open for strong candidates from each party and most importantly the country would have 4 years to put the current state of madness behind us.
2
Is it bad that hearing a thin-skinned, climate-denying pseudocentrist like Bret Stephens bash Elizabeth Warren just makes me want to support her that much more?
12
The Dems need to run as a team, not as individuals
1
Bret represents every thing about America that is causing us to fall behind the rest of the world. "... half baked plans.... that will fall apart"
This nation was built on half baked plans that ended up changing the world because they were executed well and in spite of the fact that we had failed at other plans...
4
And Bret Stephens was the guy who said Trump wants to be impeached ... he's goading Democrats to impeach him. And now he says Trump has good political instincts, and he wants to run against Warren because he'll beat her. If Bret Stephens thinks Trump is such a Svengali manipulator, why wouldn't he favor Trump? Oh his behavior, right. His policies are just fine, except for isolationism and tariffs.
3
Bret, Warren is a know-it-all? You are more of a know it all, and you don't have nearly her knowledge relevant achievements or credentials. You are someone who has supported Republicans for president time and again, notwithstanding your finally drawing the line at Trump. What have they gotten us? Why should decent people care about what you think.
8
Andrew Yang has momentum and grass root support. NYT should be discussing the merits of all candidates, not just your favorites. Freedom Dividend will help all Americans. Why is NYT not discussing AI / Automation?
1
I'm 70 years old. I don't want to turn back the clock with Joe Biden as much as I like the man. Back in the days when we had wind up alarm clocks if you tried to wind it backwards you messed up the spring inside. We need to move forward and Elizabeth Warren is all about our future and not the past. Yes she has grand ideas, that is what I expect from the leader of the free world. We want a leader who like Kennedy aims for the moon. We all know that grand ideas like health care for all was not easy for Obama and the Democrats but the ACA moved us much closer to that goal. Warren has lofty goals that will get us closer to equality for all Americans. Pete Buttigieg is bright, refreshing and has the stamina of youth and would make an excellent running mate for Warren.
14
Who writes the headlines for these articles? Search for the word "divide" in the article. It only appears in the headline. Search for discussion of Warren activities that divide the room. Tell me where those discussions are because I can't find them.
Warren has mainstream, slightly left of center solutions to real problems. Rather than discussing her proposals, her detractors label them "far left" and "fringe", and then attack her as being devisive and shrill.
Read the candidates proposals, criticize the proposals, but reject the ginned up problems designed to tear people, particularly women, down.
6
One thing’s for sure... it will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for another Republican.
7
Elizabeth Warren remains underrated despite her steadily rising poll numbers. Our pundit class loves to pontificate on conventional and familiar tropes more often than not missing evolving trends. Their take on Warren is no different.
She is energetic, thoughtful and forthright which are traits uncommon to most politicians especially those on the national stage.
Trump remains disliked and distrusted by a large majority of the US population and has delivered on nothing except overt racism and hateful rhetoric which will not rule on election day.
4
Liz scares all of "conservative" America. Why? Because she actually believes in what she is proposing. What is most daunting to the mind that is frozen in time(conservative) is change and uncertainty.
Liz is no more a socialist than W was - she just puts into words the plans to take back America from big money(Wall Street).
5
This conversation represents a dilemma I have as a Democratic voter. On one hand, I am firmly in the camp of "Any Functioning Adult 2020." But I also think that once the initial relief of having Trump gone wears off, people's expectations, including mine, will rise, and the new president will be expected to deliver results. At this point, it seems as though the candidates most likely to be able to wipe the floor with Donald Trump are too far left to be a consensus builder.
1
If Warren is the nominee, how long will it take before the GOP, Fox News, Trump and conservative PACs label her a « socialist »?
That’s the big problem Ms. Warren will have to adress, because one thing I know about the United States is that accusing an adversary of being a socialist works all the time.
3
@Michel Forest they’re going to label Joe Biden a socialist. They’d label Warren Buffet a socialist.
2
Wow, if a Biden had a vision and were producing well thought out plans to tackle some of our greatest issues Brett would celebrate him. But Warren does so and it’s dismissed as delusional.
From my perspective, she has one major flaw that is modifiable: universal health care. I strongly disagree that Americans should not be given the opportunity to choose private vs public coverage. For the millions who don’t qualify for Medicaid or Obamacare and those who can’t afford private insurance, Medicare or the Public Option should be available.
I hope she rethinks her position on this topic. But go Elizabeth!
7
I'll bet neither Gail Collins nor Bret Stephens considered Donald Trump electable in 2016. The Times also thought he was very unlikely to win, with daily predictions of the chances of Clinton winning at 95% or so. Now these two talking heads are assuming that the likes of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are unelectable. I'm not sure we should be listening Gail or Bret.
4
I'm a life long Democrat. But I agree very much with what Bret Stephens says here - even though I am more sympathetic to some of Elizabeth Warren's proposals than he is.
I love having Warren in the Senate. But she will alienate a whole raft of voters who would vote for Biden. A quick look at who voted for her in Massachusetts and who did not - working class areas - makes this worry more than mere speculation. Some of this results from "sexism" - not so much of a vicious sort but simply of a preference for male chief executives on the part of some male and female voters. But part of it also comes from the way that Warren comes across as genial enough, but also as an academic know it all who has a logical but clearly unrealistic "plan" for everything.
And Bret's appreciative paragraph about Biden's obvious virtues and reliability capture why he has the broader appeal required to win the general election.
My view is that Bernie Sanders won the 2016 election for Donald Trump by his trashing of Hillary. And Elizabeth Warren will re-elect him next year if she costs Biden the democratic nomination.
2
@Solon
You're deeply mistaken if you think Biden is the answer. He now has as much baggage as Hilary did in 2016.
Even if what Biden and his family has done isn't illegal it reeks of the powerful self-dealing.
Biden is doomed and will depress turnout especially among those under 35 where he is favored by 10% or less of those polled.
Bernie 2020
I'm sorry but the coordinated attempt to dismantle 2016 by media and elements within government are more chilling than anything with which Trump is accused. I'd like to see a little balance in the front page of flagship newspapers and TV stations.
I am so tired of men telling me that Elizabeth Warren can't/shouldn't win the democratic nomination. She is an intelligent, hard-working, future-thinking candidate who has a long history of sticking up for the middle and lower classes.
The wealthy class and big corporations (including conglomerate-owned media) all feel threatened by her because they will need to pay at least 2% more in taxes which will help the middle and lower classes gain back their rightful, dignified place in this country.
Warren can easily beat Trump. The writer Bret S. prefers Biden because he is a "a respecter of our institutions," as if Warren isn't. The major difference is that Warren respects when the institutions weren't taking advantage of the middle/lower classes. There have been far too many corporate and multimillionaire tax breaks and lessening of regulations that help the wealthy while hurting the rest of us.
I am voting for Warren, and if WSJ Bret & his boys feel threatened then she must be doing something right.
12
This conversation between a centrist Democrat and Bret Stephens, whatever shade of right-winger he is, is so out of touch with America on the ground its stunning the Times published this article.
There was one mention of the best candidate throughout this entire conversation and it was that Bernie Sanders "should" bow out. Biden is not in as good shape as Sanders mentally or physically, but it would be national news if anyone at the Times called for him to bow out.
This conversation promotes Klobuchar? The woman polling at 2% who uses Republican talking points to scare the elderly (her only constituency) about Medicare-for-all.
How can these Times writers suggest that the third place candidate, who polls better head to head against Trump than all others save Biden bow out? Did the Times suggest that Cheney be dismissed after his three heart attacks and transplant? Bernie is a lifelong runner who had possibly the most grueling schedule and has been fighting for the working class of this country longer than I've been alive.
If you're looking for a fighter who will excel against Trump in debates, rally the rust belt and never accept the money of the richest and powerful in this country accept no substitutes. Bernie 2020.
4
@D W "... who polls better head to head against Trump than all others save Biden ...?"
Food for thought, Andrew Yang holds the title for pealing away support from Trump's base, at 10% and rising. While mainstream media outlets—owned by 6 mega corporations—clearly fear and smear him almost much as they do Bernie (the difference being they can sideline Yang by omission, while they have to photoshop blotches, that aren't there, on Bernie's forehead).
1
I like Elizabeth Warren very much; I just do not like her as a Trump opponent. The same with Bernie, Kamala, Booker and Castro.
Mayor Pete, Klobuchar and hopefully Bloomberg are my favorites against Trump. I am left of center, but I think we need a healer, not a reformer.
4
I waited to change my residency from Massachusetts to Vermont until after I could vote for Elizabeth Warren for her first Senate run.
I’m as happy with that choice as I am with my now current Vermont Senators.
Come Primary time, I’ll be voting for Liz, and will do the same in November.
8
My best-case scenario has Trump out of office (along with Pence) by early November 2020. And a prominent position for Hillary Clinton in the new incoming Democratic administration.
From 'Bret': "...but I see her [Warren] as the left-wing answer to Trump, minus the ethnic bigotry and sophomoric narcissism: railing against a “rigged” system and making promises she can’t deliver.
Warren is perhaps the ONLY Democratic candidate who can claim to have delivered on promises. Elizabeth Warren proposed and established the CFPB. NO other candidate has an accomplishment to match. She is a Capitalist, she's very smart, and she expresses herself powerfully. Bernie will throw his support to her. Biden is no longer a viable Democratic candidate. Democratic voters don't like the smell of corruption. His son's statement that there was 'no ethical lapse' is false. There may have been no legal lapse, but there was clearly an ethical lapse. Warren is a strong candidate. 'Bret' should examine his reasons for thinking that Warren is like Trump. I think they are questionable.
9
I get that thin-skinned climate-denying conservative professional chinstrokers don't seem to like Warren very much. What blows my mind is that we're expected to believe any part of the reason why is some sort of "electability" argument. Bret Stephens doesn't *want* our society to be more equal or apparently care if the majority of the ~9 billion people on the planet in 50 years have clean air to breathe or water to drink. If he'd been alive 100 years ago, he would have been confidently claiming Medicare and Social Security would "never work" and dismissing anyone who said otherwise as unrealistic.
7
Warren and Buttigieg are the standouts. Bright, curious, knowledgeable and ethical. They would offer our sick nation a cure. However, being as things are they are not 100% accepted by folks who are afraid of significant change. Rather, good old uncle Joe, kind, sweet and goes along to get along is more comfortable. He would not be the best at quick thinking or innovation but steady and honest ,and thats what people want after the typhoon destruction of Trump.
Remember. all these talented dems with their ideas will be available to Joe to listen to and he would be agreeable to most of their ideas. Main thing is, we need a complete Dem government to turn things around.
Am I the only one who's really uncomfortable with the visceral dislike of Elizabeth Warren from Bret in this piece?
Given the fact that she is the only one candidate with actual upward momentum, it feels really off to me. How is she dividing the room when she's in fact convincing more and more people that she's worthy of support?
I have no doubt that as president Warren can make at least some of her promises a reality. Of course there will be compromise, that's par for the course, and she'll moderate some of her stances as we move forward. But she has the track record, and I think she will do better than Obama or anyone else on that stage. She is truly exceptional in being able to actually execute on her ideas. That's why I hope she is the nominee.
21
I pray that Donald Trump won't be re-elected, and I'm not a praying person.
That said, I would like to see a moderate Democrat, Republican, or Independent as president.
Rather than "Medicare for all", offer a public option with a very broad pool for underwriting. Perhaps allow anyone to opt in to traditional Medicare, provided that they understand its benefits and limitations.
Rather than a wealth tax, start by taxing capital gains at a higher rate than earned income.
Raise the cap on income that has Social Security taxes withheld.
Rather than forgiving college loan debt across the board, lead with job training programs. Help people who lost jobs due to changes in the economy, to develop new skills. Oh, and include older adults in this. Most job training programs in my county are for young workers or for those returning from incarceration.
5
@Karen Lee The private insurance companies will fight tooth and nail to destroy Medicare as an option because profits are more important to them than adequate medical care.
3
Just like Hillary, I think Warren is very bright and experienced, and is in all ways better than Trump, that being said she is very divisive to many voters. Just like Hillary you either strongly love her or hate her. She is seen as on the far end of liberals to many voters.
This love/ hate is the similarity to Hillary that is very troubling. Trump knows how to take advantage of this situation and she will lose if the democrats nominate her.
Reality hurts sometimes... hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.
5
I don't know how Gail Collins does it, when so confronted by the bias of the patriarchy yet still have such a great sense of humor. But what else is new about smart women who make their way in this life? We have to entertain these antiquated views that the male patriarchy holds, because to do otherwise threatens our jobs. Warren is a know it all, who can't win in the general election? Please, Mr. Stephens, when Democratic voters said Obama couldn't win, it is because saying that allowed them to project onto, and blame others for, their own racist views. When will you confront your own biases against women like Warren, Mr. Stephen? If you did, you might finally sense how completely disheartening it is for women readers to see the distinctly average Joe Biden exalted by you, while you project stereotypical and inaccurate narratives onto the most capable of the Democratic candidates. Had Joe Biden been a woman whose husband had tragically been killed when her sons were young, that woman, no matter how brilliant would have been hounded from any political ambitions by accusations of failings of motherhood. Yet, Joe Biden has turned this sad story into currency for his campaign. It is time for Joe Biden to his words into action, and support a woman candidate for President, most of all because the women on the stage tonight are all far more politically adept and capable than he is.
8
It's either Biden or Trump, much like it was only Hillary or Trump..The far left led by Bernie Slanders will do everyting in their power to make it Trump..Biden is up 10 points in Texas, he has sizable leads in Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina and is competive or ahead in ever other red or moderate state. He has unique support from the black communitey that no one else can touch..It's pretty simple really..
2
So Mr. Stephens says Senator Warren “shouldn’t be President”? Good grief, the base-metal standard for “shouldn’t be president” is the current occupant of the White House. Not one of the Democratic candidates comes light years close to that standard.
8
I think a lecturing, know it all woman will certainly win the hearts and minds of current Americans. It worked out well for Hillary Clinton, did it not.
We are in a critical battle with Trump who is destroying America incrementally and now is not the time for a sea change, which means now is not the time to elect a woman in this macho, paternalistic, violent, gun loving nation we call America. I personally have no issue with a woman president at all. I have a problem with Senator Warren.
Look at it this way: our top court is debating whether to give 5% of Americans - LGBT - actual civil rights. It appears they think they should have no such rights because, well, because, you know... This is a debate in 2019? We should be humiliated to be debating this issue today. And this is the same country in which you think that someone as left wing and unpalatable as Warren is to so many wavering Republicans can win? She's the next Goldwater/McGovern/Mondale/Gore.
Republicans are about winning Willie Horton-style and you ain't seen dirty ads until you see the "Commie" ads about Warren coming soon. Advertising works.
2
Bret, really? The left-wing version of Trump? Shouldn't be President? I smell a gender bias.
This is someone who already has saved consumers
millions through the CFPB before Darth Vader Mulvaney stepped in. I have questions about what her foreign policy will be, but I'd choose her in a heartbeat over Buttigieg. And I wouldn't consider him for the VP. He has zero experience at the state level, let alone the national scene.
6
The world was just as divided under President Obama only extreme left wingers with microphones were happy so it was no problem.
Trump had no thoughts about pulling US troops out at all. And he didn't turn the area over to Erdogan.
Trump was ordered by Putin (btw - it was on Putin's birthday) to remove US troops from the region. Trump obeyed his master and ordered "retreat"!
He turned the region over to Putin's control.
6
A great column by Gail and Bret, thank you. I completely agree with Bret on his main point, that Joe Biden is the kind of extremely decent moderate who can deliver the White House to the Democrats. He is the one Trump wants desperately to find dirt about. Biden has a far better chance than Warren to win the absolutely critical swing districts in the swing states, that my heroine Hillary Clinton lost, over and over again. I also so support Pete Buttigieg for VP, and I would offer Warren any domestic policy cabinet postition she wanted.
David Lindsay Jr. is the author of “The Tay Son Rebellion” and blogs at InconvenientNews.net.
3
The sense that "Warren is the left wing Trump" can only be uttered by types who are comfortable in their position in life, have a good job, (white!), can afford whatever their health care cost is, don't have to cross a border to avoid mayhem, can ignore the evening news because much of it doesn't really affect them, can hop a plane to travel the world whenever they feel like it....etc.
The rest of us are in the middle class.
Thinking Warren is an extremist in any form is obnoxious.
6
Why do neither of these columnists apply their concern for the Kurds to looking for a presidential candidate with at least some background in foreign affairs? Only Joe Biden and Amy Klobuchar come to mind.
2
Can we dispense with the 'too young', 'too old' nonsense? Healthy, smart, sharp, leadership skills and above all else; humble - that's all that matters.
For the love of mercy, choose somebody that can unite. Somebody that will be able to surround themselves with bright and honest people that wish to serve the country rather than themselves.
Buttigieg & Warren would both do admirably. Biden strikes me as being around for the sake of being around.
Oh and choosing a lessor candidate because you think s/he has the best chance of beating King trump, is weak and cowardly and very UnAmerican in my view...although perhaps it suits this new America, that has turned its back on caged children.
3
Gail and Bret managed to get past Trump today, but I can’t. What would the Greatest Generation think?
Now, it’s true that the Greatest Generation was a mixed bag. It abounded in people who, when they were not fighting the good fight against fascism or grinning and bearing the Depression, were committing benighted acts great and small. But if their moral compass often failed them, their compass of self-respect stayed pretty true.
What would they think of a President of the United States who impulsively agrees to a foreign strongman’s attacking US-backed forces — and then changes his mind (only to be ignored) — but still orders American troops to walk off and leave their comrades-in-arms?
And what would they think of Americans who approve of such a president, or of one who slaps them in the face from every angle while glibly making himself out to be their champion? In other words, what would certain farmers, laborers, small-town merchants, and other ordinary Americans of the past think of their own present-day flesh and blood? Here are people who were bequeathed a legacy of common sense and self-respect but wound up tagging along after a spoiled rich boy who had never done an honest day’s work in his life or learned to so much as fake an interest in anyone but himself.
Some members of the Greatest Generation are still among us. I suppose they’re still a mixed bag, too. But what do they make of all this?
3
Warren won’t lose to Trump if we Dems are foolish enough to nominate her because she’s female; she will lose — in a McGovern like way —because she’s not what is wanted. Stephens is dead right about her. Railing against corporations, even if they are running amuck, is not the way to win an American election. Most liberals want to rein them in, regulate them, get them out of politics. Get rid of capital gains taxes that favor rich and raise their taxes. However, the wealth tax she proposes is unenforceable and the money raised won’t cover all the promises she’s making.
Warren wants to kneecap corporate America.
Most liberals want illegal immigration controlled, want to keep our existing laws and help dreamers, not decriminalize the borders and encourage more economic migrants. That doesn’t mean weren’t horrified by Trumps brutality and vicious demeaning of Mexicans. We support Everify and deportation of criminals. We want to see the companies hiring them held responsible. Warren wants to effectively open the borders. This is not the position of the vast majority of Dems, let alone Americans.
Please, white progressives, wake up to reality.
1
I counted the "Recommends" for the top 10 "Reader Comments" on this column. I counted 4,910. The comments were all strongly pro Warren. I'm starting to get hopeful again, after almost three desperately bleak years.
3
For Europeans, it is astonishing how and why so many Americans (even some NYT readers here) equate any sensible, pragmatic, public-minded attempt at fairness, access to affordable education, housing and healthcare, public transportation, energy-saving, consumer protection, basic rights for all, lack of discrimination, environmental protection et al with SOCIALISM (Jaws music here) = hellfire, damnation, bubonic plague with a nasty rash on the elbows thrown in.
7
" Golden retrievers are good at all ages."
Bret, I was all set to write a devastatingly snarky comment about something you said, but you earned a pass with this one.
3
Saying that Elizabeth Warren is the same as Trump except for "minus the ethnic bigotry and sophomoric narcissism" is sort of like saying that a dog is like a banana except that one is an animal and one is a fruit. It's everything. To compare them in this way is meaningless, baseless, and potentially very harmful.
7
To understand Trump’s policy toward the Kurds, all you have to do is ask yourself “what would Putin want,” and that’s your answer. I’m surprised two smart commentators such as Gail and Bret don’t understand this.
3
We once thought: America will never elect a Black man
be the President.
And, it may true that without a confluence of unusual circumstances: the debacle of the Iraq War, the collapse of the real estate bubble, the deep unpopularity of Geoge Bush, and the political ineptness of John McCain, perhaps Barack Obama would not have been elected.
But he was elected. The circumstances of the 2020 election appear similar to those of 2008.
237
@Christy Vaile
My thoughts exactly. I am reminded that Hillary was the expected nominee but Obama could not be stopped. I have thought of that often now with Biden being pushed on us. Let him succeed or fall according to the voters
24
@Christy Vaile
And you forgot the great contribution of Sarah Palin. Obama created enthusiasm. True, in the end, he disappointed, but he could create enthusiasm and turnout. This election will also be about turnout. All of Trumps supporters will get out and vote even if the have to crawl to the polls. The Dems need someone who can energize that same kind of turnout.
25
@Jack Robinson I think Trump will supply most of the energy needed for Ds to turn out. We really only need that enthusiasm to get that tiny slice of PA/OH/MI/WI independents at the polls voting D. And frankly, we'd likely do just as well hoping some disappointed Rs from that region will stay home. Let them keep their, uh, conscience intact and not have to vote D (in their best interests), but at least stay home and not give that disgrace in DC another 4 years.
22
I think the headline is correct, as long as Trump unifies the country he will be re elected in 2020, and that what the country needs. Instead of placing the interests of the world ahead of his own country, the President is doing what is best for America. For far too long previous Presidents where too busy selling out the our interests in order to be deemed virtuous by other leaders who schemed how to scam the US. Mr. Trump finally put America first, with no apologies, the people get even if the elite, woke leftists have lost their seats at the table of world affairs.
1
I want Trump gone.
I like some things Warren has to say, but she panders far too much to the most radical parts of the left, culturally and economically.
I would feel much more comfortable voting for her knowing that the Senate will remain in GOP hands and that we have a conservative Supreme Court.
I prefer status quo, with slight adjustments here and there, to either of the extremes. We need checks and balances to keep things in the middle.
I find the pages of Jacobin, The Nation, and N+1 every bit as terrifying as Townhall and FoxNews.
72
@A F Alas, with the Senate in Republican hands, she would be unable to implement any of her plans to tame the extremes the Republicans are so comfortable with. What exactly is that you like about the status quo? With the Supreme Court in Republican hands we do not have any checks and balances as of now.
83
Terrifying? You’re terrified by universal healthcare?
721
@James K. Lowden
Universial health care
Less defense spending and waste
Infrastructure repair.reasonable education costs.
Reasonable tax structure and reduce income inequality
Stop the money into politics
reduce lobby influence
Start stopping global warming
So, these are "radical" far left ideas? These are things we should be afraid of? 1.5 trillion tax cut for the wealthy and 1% having 90% of the wealth and stopping environmental regs is the new "norm"?
194
Now I'll always think of Biden as an elderly Golden, so thanks for that. But I have to agree: like Ford after the cartoon villain Nixon, Biden might be just the soporific the country needs to regain its equilibrium. He can also reassure our allies (and remind our enemies) that adults are in charge again. Dad's back; no more stealing from other kids or trying to set the dog on fire.
2
Warren's strategy is to cut through the political nonsense, name-calling, and mud-slinging with real proposals. She has a lot of them, which take a while to digest, but she's leading the pack on that score. And I hope this election will be about fixing what's broken in the country, and not just about personalities.
6
The more I think about it, the more I think Warren might be very electable. The DNC won't be able to sink her campaign the way they sank Bernie Sanders'. They won't be able to come up with a catchy slur like "Bernie Bros" (Warren Sisters? Sounds good!). They can't put their trolls to work criticizing her age, as she is younger than Biden. I'm feeling hopeful.
1
To me, it is a process of elimination. First, anyone is better than Trump. So eliminate him.
Among the Democrats, the big three fall in like this:
Biden is not at the top of his game. He was never very smart but now he seems like a nice old man who is becoming senile and Trump will beat him like a drum.
Bernie just had a heart attack and is, likewise, too old for health reasons; although he has a great spirit and a good mind, his body will fail him and he won’t beat Trump.
Elizabeth Warren frightens people because she is smart. She, despite coming out of Harvard, has enough of the common touch as a self-described Okie from a not so good family (like Bill Clinton.) She speaks for the middle class and the poor, who desperately need a voice. She sometimes falls into the traps of identity politics and political correctness (Trump wins because he denounces those things), but I think she is smart enough to know when to stop.
Some of the other candidates are terrific, such as Andrew Yang, but their early poll numbers are too low. It’s early. Maybe that will change.
3
I just want the primary process to play out fairly. I have great confidence that as these candidates tour the nation, delivering stump speeches and kissing babies, the strongest general election candidate will emerge.
No pre-annointed winners. No allegations of favoritism. No leaked debate questions.
I am confident the Democratic nominee will make mincemeat of President Pence in November 2020.
3
Mr. Stephens seems terrified of leadership. Warren has some bold plans, most of them requiring good ol' American legislation enacted by Congress. It is far from certain that Dems will control the Senate, but even if they do, Warren's plans, if they are radical, will be modulated to political acceptability.
I sense a bit of chauvinism in his objections. Our nation needs to move past this ridiculous bias. Let's nominate and then elect the best and the brightest.
4
“Bret: I think there’s a fine line between setting high goals and setting delusional ones.”
I am a Democrat, and I think Brett’s analysis is spot on!
Trump’s reign is taking America straight to hades; while Warren wants us to go to Candyland.
The amount of extreme hate espoused by the Republican base clears the way for our Trumpian trip to continue.
Warren and Bernie’s magic candy wands won’t stand up to AR15s with bump-stocks.
1
B. Stephens seems to be reacting to E Warren as she's portrayed by the right, not based on what she actually says, or what her track record shows her priorities to be.
One example: her CFPB didn't set out to destroy consumer finance. All it did was add protections for regular people, which up until then had been missing.
She is not out to destroy capitalism. She's out to make it work for the people it's not working for.
Trump may want to run against that, but he is a genius at making dumb decisions.
5
Bret is really over the top in hate with our next President. Elizabeth Warren is clearly going to win the nomination, and when it comes down to the irrational hatred of progressive causes which end up being good for business versus re-electing a sociopath, America is going to elect its first female President.
I love these conversations.
4
If Warren is the candidate, Trump will refuse to debate her.
If Biden is the candidate, Trump will tear him to pieces.
Let that sink in.
2
Brett is absolutely correct about Joe Biden. He's the one that Trump is afraid of and for very good reason. As for The Donald's isolationism, it's clear that this goes hand in hand with his racism and xenophobia. He tolerates foreigners only to the extent that they're able to contribute to his bank account or to provide him with a "victory" that he can take credit for. Now that ISIS is over and done with (or so he thinks), the Kurds are no more useful than prospective immigrants from Central America.
2
The comments here prove the point: people are strongly for, or strongly against, Warren. And with the smear campaign carried out against Biden--and now repeated endlessly, thanks to the impeachment process--you do risk another four years of Trump. God help us all.
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You two rich white kids should add a third person, one who is less firmly sedimented in the Reagan-era establishment of the last forty years. It could be someone older, who remembers the period between the end of the second world war and the mid-1970s, when the middle class was growing in the U.S., college was affordable, and journalists were more serious. You know, when the country was run by people who thought, as do Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, that a marginal tax rate of 90% made sense. I mean people like Dwight Eisenhower. Or it could be someone younger, who recognizes an Italian-style capitalist fascism, in which a corporate oligarchy owns both the government and the media, when she sees it, being forced to grow up in it.
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Trump wants Warren as the candidate.
Look, I love her as a leader. You pick Warren you will guarantee Trump for the next four years. He will run circles around her.
One thing I will say about Trump: I dislike the guy but he knows exactly how ugly we can be because he lives it everyday.
@Full Name (required) re this: "He will run circles around her."
How can Trump do that, as he can barely compose a sentence? I'll grant that he is very good at repeating words and catch phrases ... often within just a few minutes. Here are are just a few: witch hunt, coup, disgraceful, perfect, best ever, your favorite president, Donald Trump, MAGA, Keep America Great.... On and on he goes.
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@Full Name (required) re this: "He will run circles around her."
How can Trump do that, as he can barely compose a sentence? I'll grant that he is very good at repeating words and catch phrases ... often within just a few minutes. Here are are just a few: witch hunt, coup, disgraceful, perfect, best ever, your favorite president....
1. The person most benefitting from the debates is Trump.
2. The Times has already silently selected Warren. Prove me wrong and throw her some high heat in the questions tonight.
Thank you to all the women defending Warren in these comments. Brett comes off misogynistic as heck, sounding like my father anf father-in-law would if they were still alive. Yes, there are still plenty of men like that around, but hopefully more like my husband and son all the time.
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What is it about strong women that scare men so much? Bret is talking about her ideologies here... but one can't help but sense his discomfort because of her sex. We saw it with Hillary, too. (And Kathleen Wynne up here in Ontario).
Like some other responders, my challenge is with the debate format itself. It forces the candidates to beat their chests and attack each other. There is no discussion of ideas. It's just a bunch of people talking over each other and trying to score "points."
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Warren really is the one. She remembers and has learned from her working class roots. Others may have the same roots, but Warren has built her philosophy on how to govern wrapped around these roots
"Simply put, we need to go back to a free market system designed in a manner to best achieve the objectives laid out in the country’s constitution as amended. While doing this we must recognize we need some control over capitalism. All societies have objectives that go beyond the maximization of wealth" and Warren recognizes this. https://lstrn.us/controlledCapitalism
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Can’t you hear us screaming out here? ANY SANE, COMPETENT ADULT WILL DO! So what if Warren swings us too far left. Let’s give the conservatives the same thrill ride that we’ve been on.
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Remember folks; Making millionaires pay the same tax rate as us is "unrealistic" and "unachievable." There is nothing wrong with the fact that Mitt Romney admitted in a presidential debate that he paid a 14% tax rate because he made money from investments instead of from actual work. He's a maker not a taker! But seriously... Exactly how crazy are Republicans and corporate Democrats in 2019? They're so crazy that they consider the longtime right-wing fantasy of a flat tax to now be "far left socialism." They actually want the rich to pay a LOWER tax rate than us! Time to swing the pendulum back, and stop these lunatics from moving the goalposts any farther.
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Trump constantly brags about a book he didn't really write and likely didn't read becoming a best seller. Over a million copies, according to educated estimates that didn't include the opinion of the 'author' himself. Imagine his ire if Gail's book leaves his in the dust. One can only hope.
It's encouraging to see a national columnist with the megaphone of the NYT giving voice to my own take on Warren, specifically "I see her as the left-wing answer to Trump, minus the ethnic bigotry and sophomoric narcissism: railing against a “rigged” system and making promises she can’t deliver."
As a Massachusett resident who has been watching Warren longer than she has been on the national stage, this is exactly as I have been characterizing her to friends who are ardent supporters of hers. Whether she is right about our problems and possible remedies, the reality is that her prescriptions go beyond the politically possible, even if there were a Democratic Congress. (Recall how hard it was for Obama to get the modest ACA through a Congress controlled by his party).
Many Warren supporters seem to feel she will motivate the Millennial generation to come out in great numbers. Perhaps. But growing the Democrats winning margins in NY, Mass, Calif. does not help with the Electoral College map. I worry that she will not win over the Trump Democrats in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania who have great union-delivered medical insurance.
I see the Warren nomination, though satisfying to the base, as McGovern 1972 redux.
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Trump has managed to use the Democrats to his advantage successfully.
Facing a real treat from Biden, he made sure his name is garbage, making him take a dip in polls and funds, opening the door for some other Democrat to take the chance of a life time, hoping it was an easier target than Biden.
He knew some one would take the bait, and Warren did.
Now Warren is eating Biden's lunch, weakening him as a Democratic candidate as she rises and he falls.
Just like he hoped it would happen.
She is Trump's Christmas gift in Halloween.
As long as she continues to erode Biden, she plays into the hands of the GOP. And she won't stop.
Can't wait for the Warren / Trump dust off.
Insane to me that Bret can describe Elizabeth Warren as a "know-it-all" while expressing preference for Pete Buttigieg. They are equally the archetype of "unrepentant teacher's pet" but only one is a woman.
I'm not the kind to claim that any critique of a female candidate (like the many good points against Hilary Clinton) is rooted in sexism, but this kind of language most certainly is.
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Sorry, I still will never get how Gail Collins endless chatty humor is funny. I'm strongly to the left politically mostly for humanistic reasons. Somehow I don't "get" her current overuse of what might be termed "NY Sarcasm." Not now.
This is not a game. We are not in your or Stephens reality show. Millions of us are suffering deeply. This kind of thing is stupid right now.
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Sorry, Gail, but when they pair you with a die-hard Republican enabler who decries Trump (but who fails to recognize that he and his party's membership are the enablers that make Trump possible), well, I'm turned off by the banter and can read no further.
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Here we go again, the intelligent female with actual policy plans is dismissed as a know it all. When will that END???
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Warren AND Biden, in that order. Or, my long time preference: Liz and Pete. But guess what: IT doesn’t matter. VOTE BLUE, or just surrender. Give up, and wallow in despair and self pity. Because THAT is what they’re counting on.
Seriously.
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Know it all?
Honest to goodness a woman can’t even be smart without there being some kind of negative way of viewing it.
Trump is a know nothing...I’d rather have a know it all.
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"She probably can’t win the presidency"
Check
"She shouldn’t be president"
Double Check
"I see her as the left-wing answer to Trump"
Triple Check
"Making promises she can’t deliver"
Check Mate
Gail, I'm sorry. I enjoy your writing, but pairing you with Bret Stephens is a travesty. I am reading the first paragraph only, and then signing off for greener pastures at the Washington Post.
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-- i would love to see jon huntsman primary trump -- he's served as governor of utah, he's been ambassador to china AND ambassador to russia ... and he's rational --
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@rls, I'd like to see anyone beat Trump in a primary.
At least that *might* prevent him from claiming that his defeat was a rigged coup by the so-called "deep state".
Glib talk about our abandonment of the Kurds is inappropriate. Do something, anything. Take a stand. The “ oh well, there he goes again “ tone is out of place. I know articles of many points of view must be written but....
really, take this situation seriously. The Turks have our nukes and Putin is virtually IN the White House. All hands are needed on deck now, now, now.
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Bret, with whom I have issues( he gets misty over Reagan) is on the money about Warren. She cannot win the national election. The RNC and all of the right-wing crackpots are drooling over the latest poles showing her leading the Democratic candidates pack. They know she's a landslide waiting to happen.
“. . . behaved despicably toward Biden at the last debate; he failed as a human being, never mind as a politician.”
And someone else’s biographical embellishments are disconcerting?
Come on, Bret, you have to do better than that.
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Everyone thought Trump couldn't win either.
Never. The. Less.
She persisted.
I hope she keeps it up. I want a fighter for me and my family, in the face of overwhelming ignorance and greed.
You go girl!! There are many of us, some who have been more moderate in the past (like me) who are sick to death with watching the middle class and the poor loose ground, while the rich get richer, and with much less effort than expended by the majority of hard working Americans just to keep their noses above water.
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Suggesting that Warren is a leftist version of Trump is profoundly erroneous and unkind.
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Gail and Bret, get out of the doorway you Old Fogies, you're blocking the door of the youth to a better future. Warren is our best bet going forward. Hush!
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@Joe
Just in case you're not aware of just how ageist this comment is, let me be the first to tell you.
Another thing.
We need EVERYONE on board to vote Trump out of office in 2020 -- or there will be no future!
Where do you start to unpack this twaddle?
Let's start by talking about a book about extraordinary older women, not mentioning Elizabeth Warren is just that.
Then proceed to to push Pete B (aka "Young Biden").
Then pushing Pete B for Veep and then systematically dismiss all minority candidate one by one.
That leaves only white people as President and Pete for Veep.
Didn't we try an all white ticket in 2016 and watch the minority vote not turn out in numbers large enough to win the Electoral College? Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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