Trump wants to undo the Obama's victory over ISIS... just as he has done with every other achievement of the Obama Administration.
13
Sort of makes it easy for ISIS to recruit worldwide.
9
a thought from abroad:
this decision is completely flabbergasting; although the Ukraine misbehaviour looks like a puzzling operation to obtain electoral gains using foreign leveraging, this is small wonder compared to giving up on an allied people in the midst of a moral defining struggle against absolute evil (ISIS).
you don't abandon your allies in such a way.
12
So far the media, including the Times, seem to be missing an important point. Was Turkey already preparing their invasion before the infamous Erdogan-Trump phone call? (This could be easily answered by reviewing satellite photos along the Turkish/Syrian border in the days before Trump’s announcement.) If so, how did they know Trump was going to withdraw American forces? My bet is that this was a done deal well before Trump publicly declared “victory” and that would be even further evidence of his perfidy.
10
As expected, our so called "president" will not inflict damage on the Us, but the rest of the world as well. Between his trade wars, tax cuts, scandals, and incompetence he has made the wold less secure, and far more dangerous. Now, we add the escape of ISIS fighters who have vowed to destroy the west.
What happens next is blood on Trump's hands. and he is responsible for any genocide that happens. In addition to him possibly getting impeached, and drummed from office, not only does he face criminal charges, in the US, but with the World Court,as well. He will have company, Erdogon sitting right next to him being tried for crimes against humanity.
10
How's the "great and unmatched wisdom" looking now, Donald? Disgraceful betrayal of an ally, with horrendous consequences: loss of Kurdish lives, massive displacement of traumatised civilians, and now the US will also bear responsibility for the resurgence of Daish. All to appease an authoritan president in Turkey. As if this outcome wasn't so horribly predictable. Trump enablers in Republican party, you should be deeply ashamed.
10
So, if this action reflects that you know more than the generals, Mr. President, what was it that the generals were proposing?
So, if this action reflects that you are an extremely stable genius, Mr. President, why has your action resulted in even greater instability now in the Middle East?
So, Mr President, on December 20, 2018 you tweeted that ISIS had been defeated. How is it that they are now setting off bombs?
While I know that you are focused on your enemies (Nancy Pelosi and the Biden family), can you tell us who in your administration is focused on enemies of America?
9
First #45 tells the Turks to go ahead and attack the Kurds.
Then he says that he will destroy the Turkish economy if they go too far. Whatever that meant.
This incompetent man and his incompetent SecState, Pompeo, are threatening a NATO ally after throwing another long-time ally, the Kurds under the bus.
Note to other nations. Don't trust these men.
Things will change for the better after the 2020 election when sanity will return to the USA.
7
'The state-run media authority warned that it would “silence” any outlet deemed to have published material damaging to the offensive.'
I assume this means there will be no coverage of the Turkish army's casualties.
3
More to come. Thank trump for back stabbing our allies of many years, the Kurds
7
Who in their right mind would ever side with America again in a war. We dumped the Hmong people in Vietnam and left them to be slaughtered by the Communists and they are still hunted to this day in Laos. Should the Kurds expect any less? Typical of our policy, use someone and then throw them away when we are done. Shameful! I don't know why other countries still look up to us but they certainly don't have the same esteem as before.
8
Turkey's invasion of Syria is opening new opportunities for ISIS and its offspring organizations to threaten not only Syria but also Iraq and other states in the region. The area that is being invaded was stable with the capacity to manage the prisons and facilities holding ISIS captives and their families. Turkey faced no immediate threat from the Kurds that controlled the territory. While the Syrian Democratic Forces have ties to YPG, which is considered a terror threat within Turkey the invasion of Syria does not address Turkey's relations with YPG. The invasion is a mistake that damages prospects for political resolution in Syria and which may result in ISIS exploiting the unnecessary chaos that is being created to commit serious terrorist acts in countries in the region.
The UN could act to avert catastrophe by the Security Council demanding Turkish withdrawal and the emplacement of a peacekeeping force in the region charged with assuring stability with a particular role to keep control of ISIS captives and their families. A UN peacekeeping force could prevent a massacre and keep the problem from escalating beyond the conflict zone in northern Syria while enabling the Kurds to negotiate with Damascus from a safe position guaranteed by the Security Council.
6
Turkey was wilfully broken the unwritten commitment of not endangering US troops in it's goal of freeing the ISIS prisoners held by the Kurds - causing even Putin to raise his concern.
The US Congress needs to now respond by immediately sanctioning Turkey and calling on the European allies to also follow through with punitive sanctions on Turkey.
4
I would be interested to hear from the troops if disobedience of an immoral command was considered. In addition to fighting ISIS they had to know they were also protecting the Kurds from the Turks, if only by their presence in the area.
5
According to reports Trump made the decision to leave and abandon the allied Kurds without any consultation with the military, congress or key Administration officials. Under siege by the impeachment inquiry, probably thought it was a good idea and one he could spin into a "win".
Trump is a great example of why we should reform our democracy to conform to the European model where you vote for a Party and their political platform and not the individual candidate. If the chosen Prime Minister doesn't work out, he can be removed and a new one appointed. If the situation is chaotic, as with Brexit in the UK, a new election is a possibility.
Somebody as unfit and incompetent as Trump would have never had a chance to become Prime Minister.
3
The Ukraine call was bad. Favoring Russia at the UN was bad. Unilaterally releasing ISIS fighters upon the world after a Turkish phone call seems, I don’t know, much worse?
This is sickening. Skip the impeachment and go straight for 25. (I’m a self-declared moderate with a sense of humor who has mocked the press and popular outrage at Trump’s indiscretions previously.This is serious now).
6
The Kurds are one more victim of the insanity of Donald Trump. How many will die because Trump gave the green light to Turkey to begin their slaughter. Erdogan is not an ally of the United States and certainly not a welcome partner any longer within NATO. Erdogan slapped the United States across the face when he decided to buy Russian missiles and deliberately reject American warnings. That cost Turkey its new F 35 aircraft which included contracts to build parts of those planes. It also weakened defense against Russia and Iran. So, for doing that Turkey was rewarded with the go-ahead from Trump to invade Syria and slaughter Kurds.
Mr. Trump is severely mentally ill. His view of the world and the defense of Europe, NATO, the Mideast and Israel and our allies is warped and not part of the military threats and realties. At some point ISIS, Iran, Assad, Hezbollah and other forces that oppose America and the Western Democracies are going to see opportunities for strikes against the West. We will pay a dear price for the incompetence and shortsightedness of Mr. Trump.
9
A few weeks ago, Erdogan, Putin and Rouhani held a private meeting about Syria that focused on the area now being attacked by Turkey. Trump has been played by his friends Erdogan and Putin. Once again, he has advanced their interests, not ours. He has seriously damaged our national security and jeopardized the lives of thousands of people. Where is the limit, Republicans?
9
We don't know if this horrible betrayal of the Kurds (and corresponding revival of ISIS) was Trump's decision alone or that of the U.S. foreign policy establishment. We just don't know at this point. It certainly fits in well with the blunders our country has committed in the Middle East since 9/11. What we do know is that Trump has forfeited every credit of his presidency and made the word of the United States worthless. In particular, Jews and Israelis who have been so sure that Trump is their friend must beware. He has no loyalty and would do the same thing to them in a heartbeat if he deemed the circumstances right.
3
The Syrian invasion will go down in history as Putin’s most successful tactic yet orchestrated with his partner, Trump, as he restores Russia as one of the world’s most influential nations. Leading up to the invasion, Putin successfully sold Russian fighters to Erdogan thereby weakening the NATO alliance, then he nearly eliminated any remaining international trust in the United States by having Trump turn his back on a major ally, the Kurds, and, finally, has now re-released the ISIS killing machine into the world after it had been neutralized. It isn’t clear how or if the U.S. can ever recover from this blow.
9
The Kurds were allies of convenience for the US, already self-motivated to rid their territory of ISIS. Since we had the same objective, we supported their effort. They remain anti-Turkey, seeking to carve out land for their own country and use terror attacks against Turkey to achieve their objective. This occurred before Americans were in the region and will continue long after we leave. Why should American troops be put in harms way to separate two ethnic Muslim populations?
2
Erdogan's statement that "This struggle of ours is not against the Kurds" proves once again that in war the first victim is truth.
5
This was a colossal blunder on the part of Trump. We will be paying for this years from now.
6
Does Trump have any experience with war? Does he have any history of listening to the expertise of others? No. He scoffs at experience and expertise.
His base thinks this is great. They love Trump for this.
When you give Trump power, this is what you get, unstudied, off the cuff decisions that get people, old people, young mothers, children, allies... killed.
Trump could not care less. He'll still be rich at the end of the day. As long as he's rich all is fine. That's what he tells himself when he takes his sleeping pills at night.
7
Trump is a coward. He has no stomach for a fight. Economic sanctions, please. Military action is needed here. Get your military together and get a plan. Send a strongly worded message to Erdogen to cease and desist or suffer the consequences, and i don't mean sanctions. I would start by clearing Syrian airspace.
4
With his mischievous and disastrous policy shift on Syria Trump has not only pushed the Kuds on the firing line of Turkey but also inflamed all the explosive faultlines in the region with giving a new lifeline to the already weakened ISIS, and thereby obliterating the very raison de’tre of the US presence in the Middle East.
6
Unfortunately it might just be that for the foreseeable future strong men are needed in the middle east. Saddam Hussein, for all his faults, did keep a kind of horrible peace in Iraq, same with Egypt, Syria, and really Jordan too, Saudi Arabia, etc.. You could say that all of these autocrats are evil, but at some point you have to see that they are necessary: there are just too many combos of ancient blood feuds involved in these regions. Shiites and Sunnis animus is built into Islam, for example.
So, given that Kurds are not numerous enough and the US is not colonial enough to cause a takeover of Iraq with democratic loving Kurds, it defaults back to a need for a strong man autocrat in Iraq. But then the Kurds are left in a no-man's land and the Syrian refugees in Turkey -- another no man's land. In a way it isn't fair for Syria and Iraq to have to tolerate a Kurdish state and house refugees forever. This given the combos of ancient hatreds prevalent in a desert situation -- defend your oasis with your lives, forever!
The only hope was for an outside power like the US to keep a kind of tenuous peace for a decade or two until all parties can see the utility of democratic rule and respect of all minorities -- a grand kumbaya where the regions wake up and see that the rules for an ancient desert no longer apply because it is a modern world now. Religious controls have to go!
Trump zapped this plan but maybe Erdogan will resolve it inclusive of Isis. Its only way.
I am a journalist named David Vognar. As I reported for the Huffington Post in 2014, American oil companies benefit from chaos in the Middle East. American oil companies are seen as more stable, which depresses oil output from places in the Middle East not named Saudi Arabia. It was reported in the 2014 Atlantic article "Thank God for the Saudis" that ISIS was funded by the royal Saudis in order to fight various groups the Saudis didn't like.
5
I cannot help but wonder if Mr. Trump — who is widely reported to not like to read — was presented with a highly abbreviated, fourth grade level intelligence community “analysis” of the situation in northern Syria, in which several alternative scenarios and likely outcomes were described.
Quite possibly he did not fully understand the material in front of him.
And ultimately he chose the scenario he did not because he fully understood its implications for the US and our allies, but rather because it would create the most chaos and thereby draw attention away from his domestic political troubles.
It seems to me that the administration’s efforts to play catch-up in the aftermath of this horrible miscalculation validates my thesis.
6
What Turkey is doing is right!
Based on internationally recognized borders, there is no room for new nation creating aspirants. USA is carrying on with the simplistic "my enemy's enemy is my friend" approach, neglecting a major NATO member, Turkey's, security concerns.
1
Trump agreed to the genocide of Kurds because of his Trump Towers in Istanbul. Ever the one to care about only himself and his earnings, he has reported earnings in the millions of dollars from these towers.
In a rare moment, he even admitted to having a conflict of interest when it came to Turkey.
He has not only earned hotel revenue in Istanbul since his term began, he's earned revenue from Turkish stays at his properties in the U.S., where Turkey has visited more frequently than any other country.
While Trump's favors those who give him hotel revenue, the Kurds, American allies in the war against ISIS, are being slaughtered and dislocated by Turkish troops and escaped terrorists.
Without the Kurd's vigilance, ISIS terrorists and their families, jailed in Turkey, are escaping and doing what they do best -- terrorizing.
Kurds do not support the dictatorial Erdogan regime; neither does the E.U. The Kurds fight for democracy in Turkey. Erdogan calls them terrorists.
Trump's love of emoluments from Turkey, and his lack of concern for genocide (Turkey v. Kurds is a Saudi v. Houthi redux) drives him to choose personal revenue over mayhem in the Middle East.
Impeach him.
7
To the NY Times:
Amid the impeachment headlines and the seemingly endless headlines about what is happening in the US generated each day... Amid all of that, please continue to cover this burgeoning humanitarian disaster which - paired with the US's non-reaction to the bombing episode in Saudi Arabia - will lead to the irrevocable weakening of the US in the Middle East, the immediate strengthening of Iran as a regional power and of Russia's influence, the weakening of the Sunni/Iran balance of power, the resurgence of IS (which Turkey was enabling since the outset), the radically increased vulnerability and isolation of Israel and, foremost, the unnecessary deaths of innocent Kurdish civilians.
Please keep the spotlight on this. Don't let the world forget what is happening, and that it is happening because of the whim of an unstable narcissist who, somehow, in still in power. Completely avoidable, this move that undermines the US's own national security, one would think this is an urgent cause for impeachment on its own.
And to my Israeli compatriots, hopefully now it will be abundantly clear to all that Trump is no real friend of Israel, and never has been. At least this should enable us all to see that it was all a delusion.
6
Turkey allowed thousands of ISIS fighters to enter Syria in the past, it's ludicrous to think that Turkey will now contain ISIS. All this bloodshed is on Trump's little hands.
6
The Kurdish PPK Workers Party receives shelter and support from Kurds in the boarder area and is not only considered a terrorist organization by Turkey for attacks on civilians but is also listed as a terrorist organization by the US.
And least we forget or maybe many of us don't know Iranians also fought with us in Iraq against ISIS forces and look how we're treating them now.
2
Our brilliant, thoughtful President can only connect turkey with Thanksgiving. Perhaps he believes that by catering to Turkey, he will have a better Thanksgiving.
4
the blood of the kurds is on Trumps hands and no one else .
5
Turkish, Saudi and Russian oligarchs invest in Trump-Kushner properties.
The poor, brave Kurds have not.
It may really be that simple, and that vile.
7
Trump gave the “green light” to Turkey for them to bomb northern Syria where American troops were still stationed. If a U.S. military commander had green-lighted this attack, that officer would have been court martialed.
4
Trump is a treacherous disgrace. With not a thought, in an impulse, he throws our loyal allies away to be slaughtered by the Turks. He is incompetent, dysfunctional, and insane. He destroys everything within his power. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence or capable of critical thought recognizes the seriousness of the dysfunction observing his Campaign Rallies. They are chilling, hate filled, vicious and inflammatory personal attacks, directed at the worst instincts of the most disturbed.
4
When these escaped Isis prisoners kill others, it is all on Donald Trump. He simply does not care about the effects of his decisions on others. It is all about Donald and his personal interests.
5
That Trump gave Turkey the “green light” to start bombing northern Syria while U.S. forces still in the targeted area is incredibly stupid. Trump recklessly endangered the lives American military personnel.
4
Turkey under Erdogans islamic AKP regmie has openly supported IS. They supplied weapons.Wounded IS members where taken care of in hospitals near the border and then sent back to fight.
The Pro-Turkish Syrian fighters are pretty much the same fundamental sharia followers as Daesh including their brutal methods.
Trump made it possible that those who fought DAESH / ISIS are now fighting the the supporters of the Islamic State.
Only this time all alone after having handed over their fortified positions at the border to the american troups. It was planed that american and turkish troups would patrol the border together.
The americans now left for good. The Kurds are getting under fire from the positions they sacrificed to show their trust in an american plan.
Little did they know that it would only take a phone call from Erdogan telling Trump what a great and wise leader he was and a tweet from Trump to change all the planing and trusting.
Who on earth will trust american troups anymore after this betrayal?
3
Trump said that it was time to withdraw U.S, forces from Syria and stop " endless" wars. I wonder why he just dispatched more than 2,000 U.S. troops to Saudi Arabia. You mean he lied? Perish the thought.
4
But Leader Trump already took credit for the total defeat of ISIS. So confusing.
2
But the Kurds didn't help Harry in the Battle of Hogwarts or fight at the Alamo!
2
The sense of honor, mission, etc. of remaining US forces is also being trashed as they are forced to watch the destruction of the only honest and competent allies the US has ever had in the mideast region, courtesy of their commander-in-chief. This vile act, as well as the other numerous malicious policies of this self-serving, would-be autocrat and his seedy minions and cowardly Republican enablers, shames all Americans. MAGA indeed.
2
Trump has been threatening human and animal life on Earth from the git-go— with, among other acts, his endless rollbacks of environmental protections, fueled by a desire to please his moneyed cronies and a bone-deep hatred of the infinitely superior Barack Obama. This is more immediate and dramatic.
Betraying our allies is an unspeakable sin.Giving these ISIS fighters a chance to escape in the process is unspeakably stupid. So he doesn't care if they carry out atrocities in Europe? Doesn't think they'll have the wherewithal to carry them out in the U.S.? Tony Schwartz said it: The guy is a clear and present danger to our planet.
4
What Trump has done--sacrificing our allies for personal gain, permitting their slaughter, enabling ISIS to escape, & sewing chaos, hatred and war--is the handiwork of an evil man. And anyone enabling, supporting or protecting this evil man are evil by association.
5
Two thirds of America is better than this.
5
Whoever would have expected this to happen... well practically everybody except for Mr Trump apparently?
4
When the Romans wanted to understand an action, they always asked themselves a question: cui prodest? Who does it benefit? Trump's decision on Syria seems senseless. But what we do know for sure is that: (i) the Turkish invasion will cause (because it is already happening) a new wave of Kurdish immigration towards Europe; (ii) the new wave of immigration will favour the ultra-right political parties; (iii) the strengthening of these political parties will determine a further weakening of the European Union; (iv) the weakening of the European Union will determine a growth of Russian influence in many regions. So, cui prodest?
12
@Alfredo
You are exactly right. We all need to understand this.
Trump and all authoritarian, populist (far right) leaders will benefit from the chaos as refugees run for help. It will help them get re-elected because many citizens tend to vote for leaders who inflame fear and make their platforms about "orchestrated" border crisis.
Trump has orchestrated disruption. It benefits people like him.
Please don't vote for people like Trump. He will continue to manipulate fear to get what he wants.
All countries need leaders with integrity, who have seek democratic allies and have robust, innovative policy and a very steadying style of leadership.
3
You nailed it.
3
The media seems to be largely ignoring the role of Russia in this invasion, although reporting Russia's sale of arms to Turkey and noting that Russian troops are fighting along side Turkish troops. One theory is that the Russia is involved because it is interested in seizing an important oil pipeline. Or perhaps it is just looking to destabilize and invade another country. But it seems clear Russia is involved, which once again raises questions about Trump's love of Russia and who is really driving his actions.
20
Turkey risks being expelled from NATO which also benefits Russia.
1
Some commenters, including me, have seen Putin’s invisible hand in this whole affair, especially in Trump’s out-of-the-blue decision to pull US troops out of northern Syria.
There is no doubt in my mind that Trump is Putin’s hand puppet.
3
I wonder how many Americans (of all political persuasions) would support the official creation of a Kurdish nation in Northern Iraq?
The U.S. has, or had (and maybe when Trump is gone it will return), the political muscle with the Iraqi government to do so.
And all the U.S. would have to do is give official recconition in the UN, and some military aid in the form of equipment… Mainly air defence systems to protect against air strikes (not man portable systems that could be smuggled into another country to down a airliner - a integrated vehicle and/or fixed air defence network). And mobile artillery to stop a Tank advance (that could be used to shell Turkish mountainous regions, but it's not going to be used to led a spearhead into Turkey or Central Iraq).
And the usual stuff - reliable working guns (seriously an issue for the Kurds) and general small arms and vehicles (American police get suitable vehicles for the Kurds).
America has got to look towards the day that Erdogan is no longer in power, and considering he's leaving to visit America next month, there's always the chance of a coup.
At the very least it should be interesting to see if Trump once again let's Turkish security beat up demonstrators on American soil.
5
I know something about the Kurdish people. They will not forgive and not forget betrayal. Even after trump has been defeated, that animus will remain. He will really need to watch his back forever.
25
This development is troubling particularly since the connection between this administration action, the Turkish connection with Putin and Russia's push to control the Kurdish oil fields points all arrows towards, again Russia and a kompromat President.
No good will come of this and bodies ill of yet another regional and global war yet to come.
21
Americans are known worldwide for supporting their military by thanking them for their service. While travelling on a train in the US I saw everyone in the carriage get up shake hands with a young soldier. As I walked past him to get a coffee I said to him " I am an Australian so I will wish you safe travels". He responded in kind. I feel deeply for the servicemen and women ordered to leave Syria leave their friends behind please make sure they have your support they were following orders. A man who has never served in the military would not be able to understand how they may feel. Turkey would not have gone in while the Americans were there providing assistance. Trump says he will place sanctions on Turkey my guess is if the Europeans don't support Turkey their President will release the millions of refugees into Europe. There is always a big picture to be viewed and it has hardly started. The innocents caught up in the politics will pay the price and Trump will hold a rally and his faithful will surround him clapping and cheering.
13
The Kurds in Turkey were making peace with the government and gaining some reasonable rights, like being allowed to read and write and broadcast in Kurdish, when Erdogan decided to resume war. The "terrorism" is on him.
23
I hope the House will open a process leading to an article of impeachment for this act, simultaneously betraying a staunch ally and enabling a terrorist organization (ISIS) to regroup and regain capability to strike against us and other democracies and other allies. Republicans should be willing to join in drafting this article and voting for it.
12
Trump rescued ISIS from assured destruction by the Kurd and US military collaboration. But, using the Trump standard for reciprocity, ISIS didn’t help us in WW II, so why did they merit a reprieve?
13
I see nothing in the future of Syria and Isis except disaster now that the only stabilizing force in the region, the Kurds and their army, have been so suddenly betrayed by Trump in a telephone call with Erdogan. Foreign policy by impulse and whim and love of strongmen is the order of the day for the USA with Trump at the helm. Now Europe could be flooded with dangerous elements of ISIS formerly held by the Kurds. These same dangerous men can also cross oceans. I keep asking myself, Can we survive another year of Trump?
11
The hubris of politicians (and their enablers) never ceases to amaze me. Only through a rose-tinted lens was this war - any war - ever to be a quick and neat operation. Another quagmire in the making . . .
4
A close friend betrayed me, forgave him. But still have the scar questioning him why he did that even after 15 years.This was just one soul. Looking at this this is a million souls standing by a side against an enemy, and a betrayal.God, i have no words.Let there be peace in the world, let there be no human life lost because of decisions they did not have to take.
4
One wonder if the European Union still thinks of letting Turkey be a member of their Club.
7
@Siegfried I wonder if any other country in NATO will trust the United States after this grand sell-out.
1
After day one, Republicans in the government seem mute as regards abandoning our former ally.
7
Reports are U.S. forces actually came under fire from Turkish forces. Trump has actually placed, not only our allies, but our own forces at risk. Call a spade a spade. Trump is actively working in tandem with our adversaries against our own country. He praises N. Korea, Putin's Russia, Erdogan a ruthless strongman, other authoritarians. He is an asset of our adversaries. A traitor. He must be stopped now.
14
Thanks to Trump, no allies will trust America for a generation to come.
12
Several generations in some countries where memories are passed down for generations to come. Didn't the English occupy Ireland for the last 700 years, and take the land from the native Irish to give to Scottish
protestants, and on and on. They will never forget betrayal.
1
The Art of the Deal, on full display.
Sorry Kurds, looks like Trump traded you for some shiny baubles from Saudi Arabia. Here, enjoy these Trump ties and diplomas from Trump University as a consolation. Shipping and handling not included.
8
Hardly surprising and certainly expected. Trump is such a stable genius.
4
And yet no comments on the inconsistency of this President. More troops to Saudi Arabia, but pulling them out in Syria. Oil buys everything except any values. Saudi Arabia sent the killers who attached the US on 9/11. The Kurds supported us in the fight against ISIS. Who do we support? Obviously the killers.
12
The bottom line is, of course, what's the deal on the Trump Anikara hotel? Isn't that the only thing that matters to Trump?
7
To the highly decorated generals and other military personnel whom I have seen in photos sitting next to Putin's puppet, shame on you! What did you learn in all those years of training, what did you learn about strategy? Why are you not screaming loud to this opponent of true democracy who calls himself the wizard of oz? No other president has undermined your intelligence and participation as DJT has. Where are our military leaders? You don't have my respect generals.
8
Endless war.
Perfect for the military-industrial complex.
That Trump unknowingly - or knowingly? supports ....
Sell them more arms ....
To Both sides
3
Does anyone criticize or interfere with Israel’s right and actions to a buffer zone across its borders?
And Turkey was expected to outsource the task of securing its borders to the US and a bunch of Kurdish fighters? Yeah, good luck with that!
3
3.6 millons of refugees are in Turkey now thanks to the US intervention. If people here are so concerned then they should be able to accept those refugees in the US or in Europe but troubling enough nobody wants to take responsibility. Now Turkey wants to bring refugees back to their home and everybody is against it. Whoever doesn't like it should take responsibility then of 3.6 refugees or just shut up.
2
A random part of your former country, razed to the ground, and forced on you, is not home!
Is this really a surprise to anyone?
4
Aside from his profound ignorance and arrogance, no president - no one person- should ever have the ability to single-handedly make economic and military decisions of this magnitude.
Our system is profoundly broken when one ignorant and arrogant individual can rule like a medieval king over the earth.
The checks and balances were a mirage, and the emperor rules unchecked, creating misery and bloodshed with every decision he makes.
11
The comments section illustrates how little knowledge most of the writers have about events in this part of the world.
6
@Judy Weller, Trump has even less knowledge about events in this part of the world.
1
This is difficult to fathom. At the moment that guns were pointed at them, just after they had dismantled most forward defenses, the President of the US smiled, said good luck, laughed in their face and walked away? This doesn't even attain Bush-Iraq. This is street crime. He's like a no-good thug from an old movie. Now, many are dead and tens of thousands are fleeing, scared and hungry. Is he secretly (or not so secretly) enjoying it?
6
The Dealmaker gets lost in the Grand Bazaar.
3
So we abandoned the poor Kurds, Isis will be back worse than ever, and Trump tells all the refugees to go to Europe. And we wonder why they hate us. Looks like we may just be on our own. Terrorists? What terrorists?
4
I knew from the beginning that when the U.S. felt that the Kurds had served their purpose the U.S. would abandon them. As a disabled combat veteran of the Vietnam war I am ashamed for America. Utterly ashamed! This country has no soul.
9
Trump knows nothing. He reveals this truth everyday. Now, he is an accomplice to mass murder. Betrayal, murder, and greed. That will be his legacy.
8
So much winning. Ironic that ‘pubs called Obama feckless. Trump is the very definition of it.
6
Reading about all the competing factions and governments, their motives and goals, and the history that brought them to this point should convince any president and member of Congress that our military cannot solve their problems and that our presence in the region is probably even making matters worse. Sounds like a job for a UN peacekeeping force, if anything. As for ISIS, it is a hydra with many heads. Cut one off in northern Syria and another one will grow somewhere else. Maybe if we had let them keep their territorial "caliphate." they wouldn't be on the run, setting up somewhere else and plotting to attack us at home out of revenge. For the life of me, I can't understand why it is our job or in our interests to get involved anywhere in the Middle East. If oil is the interest, all the more reason for us to get on with our green energy transformation.
1
The Turks and the Kurds are claimants to the same territory. They have been fighting for 40 years. And the atrocities on both sides have been outrageous. The US’s first interest in the area came recently when ISIS showed up. We have pressured everyone to fight ISIS and put their own battles aside. The Kurds have responded to our pressure. The Turks not so much.
It was in our interests to keep the pressure on ISIS. By pulling out early we set the Turks against the Kurds before ISIS was defeated. But be assured that whenever we pulled out, the 40 years of atrocities were sure to resume. We are not responsible for Kurd-Turkish violence. But it would have been nice if ISIS had been wiped out before the 40 year war resumed.
7
We promised Turkey we would not include PKK members among the Kurds fighting with us. It appears we do have PKK members among the Kurds fighting for us.
5
@michjas Any "atrocities" perpetrated by the Kurds pale in comparison with what has been done by Turkey, presently, and historically. Armenian Genocide anyone? And the Kurds at Gallipoli? Only those who were conscripted. And consider Erdogan's bodyguards attacking protesters on American soil in Washington, DC. Hardly an act perpetrated by Kurdish people. "Atrocities" are not of equal force or number, my friend.
6
@andrea olmanson. The Turkish army has inflicted more casualties. But targeting civilians violates the Geneva Convention and is what I mean by atrocities. Collectively, Kurdish PKK attacks on Turkish civilians have purposely killed well over 1,000, not unlike 9/11. The PKK are among the world’s worst terrorists.
This is far more complex than it appears. Kurds want their own nation and hold on to a part of Northeastern Syria. Assad destroys Syria and sends 3.6 M refugees into Turkey which it cannot handle. So Erdogan wants to create a buffer zone along its border on the Syria side to push some and block future refugees. That was not possible unless US pulls out completely. Erdogan threatens to send a million refugees to Europe if he is not allowed to create such a zone. The western allies and the USA don’t have an objection to his plans because who wants the refugees? Remember, As per MR. Trump, 27,000 Mexican soldiers are guarding the border with Central America to stop refugees coming to the USA. We cannot stop Turkey.
The Turkey buffer zone will interfere with the land held by Kurds. So Turkey has to send forces to clear the resistance.
From partition of Middle East in various nation states in till today, the western countries have always been part of every conflict. It is not over yet. If ISIS rears it’s head, we will have to go back in again.
13
@JustWatching
I have never seen a commentary as good as yours. Your analysis is so much better than the reporter. NYT wants us to fele that US has done so wrong to Kurds that so we should go crazy and take to streets to change the policy.
3
@justwatching
Do you seriously think it’s ok for the US to back and support the Kurds dying and fighting on the frontline of Northern Syria in order to put the ISIS Caliphate to rest for the US ( and the world ) , then after 5 years of their blood sweat and tears including over 10,000 dead Kurds , just say — ok Kurds , bye , we’re out of here, basically throwing them directly to the Turkish lions to DIE ? . You think that’s ok ??
If the US thinks the Turks are Just defending themselves , then make it a fair fight — include US troops against them . Whether or not Turkey is truly a NATO ally is questionable as they just broke ranks by buying Russian arms , no doubt to help them in this mission. Which of course goes back to Trump . Is this all about Trump doing Putin’s bidding ?
However you want to twist things , it does not make sense but just smells of sheer corruption , which is part and parcel of everything Trump does .
2
@JustWatching
"Clearing the resistance" meaning killing them. You mean US had to get out because the folks who Turkey were okay with killing were Kurdish.
That's ethnic cleansing.
They were allies to the USA. That is betrayal by the USA.
2
Trump just lost the military vote and many of his allies in the GOP over this. It must have been a very lucrative move on his part to take that risk.
20
trump just sent 3,000 more troops to Saudi Arabia.
So much for bringing troops home from endless wars.
And why not send the troops to help the Kurds?
21
because send troops to rich distress country is more profitable and favors. kurd dont have money to pay for US troops or any given favor to Trump. its all about favor and money
7
I can’t help wondering what our men and women in uniform really think of their commander in chief? Especially those who have fought in that region side by side with the Kurds, who did the brunt of the fighting and suffered the majority of casualties. The spineless congressional Republicans who are up for re-election will stay silent, but where is General Mattis, and General Kelly men who fought on the battle field and are now watching as our allies get stabbed in the back
11
Fighting terrorism, the term used by the powerful to demonize any group that forcefully resist oppression. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. The meaning of the word terrorist is so abused that it no longer is nothing but a slander. It’s a convenient way for powerful governments to avoid meaningful changes by addressing the grievances of these groups.
12
I’m guessing the Kurds, like the Afghanis, like the NVA and Vietnam Kong, wont go quietly. This may turn into Turkey’s quagmire. Pretty sure, Putin and Assad will be there to try to pick up the pieces.
8
So to add to Trump's accomplishments, he had thrown our allies the Kurds to the wolves, and as a bonus is helping to revive ISIS, which has been bragging about having persoanly defeated.
All, one must conclude, because it was what our enemy, Putin, wanted him to do.
9
President Backstab has not only betrayed the Kurds, he has betrayed the American people by making us less safe. Trump is only loyal to two things: money and himself.
8
Children who were alive three days ago are now dead. Even during the Bush/Cheney years, I refrained from accusing presidents of capital crimes. This is so much different from that. The blood of all the civilians is on Trump's hands. Whoever could have imagined this?
9
“We hope we don’t have to use them,” said Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary. “But we can shut down the Turkish economy if we need to.”
Mnuchin is a weather vane too close to the non-stop hot air emanating from Trump. Nothing meaningful will be done. Same for Senate Republicans. At most they'll pass something without a veto proof margin. But they'll sure huff and puff about Trump's latest foreign policy blunder, conveniently ignoring Trump's Ukrainian extortion to get fake political dirt.
Meanwhile, Turkish backed Arab militias will stream into former Kurdish areas to ethnically cleanse them. Then they'll take up permanent residence for mutual benefit. No doubt Erdogan will insist on a cut of the 'liberated' oil and gas revenues. Can't be a true autocrat without billions in the bank.
8
The next Dem president will have to send US troops in to help contain this mess, and Trump (from the comfort of Mar a Lago) will Tweet daily criticizing it.
8
Give Trump another four years and he will be making this statement " “We will never tolerate broadcasts that will negatively affect our beloved nation and glorious soldiers’ morale and motivation, that serves the aim of terror, and might mislead our citizens with faulty, wrong and biased information,” the media authority said in a statement." this quote is from the article. God help the world. We are one banana peal away thanks to lily livered weak kneed republican apologist in congress.
7
Do we realize the seriousness of what is occurring?
USA just finished spending a trillion tax payer dollars on defeating ISIS.
And now Trump has decided its time to dismantle the whole effort and let ISIS be born again.
12
Next up Russia allowed to encroach on the Canadian Arctic.
Seward's purchase is declared illegal and Alaska returned to Russia, along with reparations.
Russian claims on pacific west coast declared valid.
5
Did Trump order the pullout to save his two hotels in Turkey from being confiscated if he did NOT do the pullout?
10
ISIS is bad news for everyone except ISIS.
So when are the Arab nations, the U.N., NATO, Russia ... going to have that conversation and agree on a plan to guard the camps and secure them? This is a nightmare in the making.
6
Time to correct Trumps stumbles. Air support for the Kurds, drive the Useless Turks back across their border, start again without the useless Turks. Sometimes civilian control of our military is frustrating.
1
We Americans are now experiencing the sort of horror and bafflement that Russians must have gone through in the era of the inept last Tsar and his adviser, the Mad Monk Rasputin - illustrating the huge risks of inherited leadership. What's our excuse?
3
Here are reports from Coalition troops still in Syria. Erdogan is firing on them.
Coalition official tells me after Turkish bombing near US base Mashtenour hill: “They know we are there, we told them our position. There’s no other target in the area. They’re trying to drive us out. If Turkey can get us to leave so they can seige Kobane, it’s all over.”
https://twitter.com/Josiensor/status/1182751126195712000
6
Get ready folks, it’s another repeat of 1915 when the Ottoman Empire attempted to wipe out Assyrian, Armenian, and Greeks. Turkey has been waiting to pounce on the stateless Kurds for years. And Donald Trump just gave them an opening to do so.
8
Trump - sower of chaos, while the innocent reap the whirlwind.
4
ISIS making a comeback means another trillion American tax payer dollars.
What on earth is the The Idiod (courtesy Stephen Colbert) thinking?
7
The problem with ISIS is to a large extent a problem with the Europeans. A large number of those ISIS fighters are Europeans. We have asked the Europeans to take them back. They have refused. I do believe it is time to squeeze the Europeans and force them to take responsibility for their citizens!
3
Another self-inflicted policy wound from Donald Trump, whose vast incompetence is rivaled only by his monumental corruption.
4
The elephant in the room is the PKK and its relationship to the SDF. The SDF is the de facto present government of the Kurds in this region. "The PKK is the Turkish branch of the KCK. The PYD/YPG is the Syrian branch of the KCK. The PYD is the political party and the YPG military wing. The YPG is the largest militia in the SDF." Basic algebra discloses that the SDK = PKK.
So what has the PKK been up to lately in Turkey? 2016: PKK terrorists attack the traffic-filled, central Kizilay square using a bomb-laden car. 36 people are killed and 125 others injured. That's why to this day the US and the EU identify the PKK as a terrorist organization. Question to all here bemoaning the Turkish Army operation: What would America do if Al Queda controlled 32 km of Mexican territory at our border? Invite them for tea?
7
Are there not violent Mexican cartels controlling much more land? Yes! Your comparison is baseless.
2
Anyone know a public comment line to the GOP? I need to vent or I may explode.
5
Yeah Donald! Years of fighting ISIS, thousands killed, millions of refugees, billions of dollars all to get them under control. Our best allies the Kurds never let us down. Then in one impulsive irresponsible moment, in the dark of the night , a lonely self disilusioned man , without any warning, no consultation destroyed all of this.
Now we have refugees fleeing, towns n bombed, civilians killed , Kurds fighting for their lives, ISIS reorganizing and Syria and Russia very happy.
7
So rather than take care of this situation which we caused when moronic President W toppled Saddam citing false claims that Iraq and a hand in 9/11 and possessed WMD's, we let the Turks, who are allied with Iran, do it.
What could possibly go wrong?
7
Just another dt blunder.
And Obama was in over his head?
The utter incompetence of the deplorable dt still amazes me.
6
This tragedy is devastating...
But since nature works perfectly, we are proud of our Kurdish identity.
6
Turkey obviously sees this area of Syria as the foundation of an independent Kurdish state, which they are determined to prevent. Whatever incentives offered Trump by Erdogan, that would be the motive. As for Trump, if it is not the promise of lots of good will for his private business interests in Turkey, I see no motivation to have this happen. It certainly will not help improve the image of the United States as a great state, since it's clearly letting people who trusted in our country to go to war as allies be killed, unnecessarily. Funny how Trump's policies are weakening this country internationally while claiming to be following a doctrine of America First.
5
I have read that Turkey only wants a 10 mile buffer zone. Way too small to be a state. They really want the zone in the North near the Iraq border. But that is a non-starter for Assad and the Russians.
1
I remember well the brave Saudi fighters who fought and died at Normandy. I’m sure that’s why we withdrew support for the Kurds and sent it to MBS, a true friend.
18
@avatar. Just like when brave Trump went to help his fellow Americans in Vietnam.
2
Lindsey Graham’s public criticism and private support for this slaughter has not received enough attention. He said he was going to rally the Senate to impose sanctions on Turkey. Where does that vote stand?
6
And now Trump has turned the United States into as unpredictable, self-seeking and disloyal an ally as Trump himself is to anyone who knows him.
8
It is crystal clear that the GOP enablers will not touch the live wire that is this president without risking political suicide. They have opted for personal gain over country, defying their oath to protect the institutions they embody. The president stands in front of his magic hall of mirror sand sees an infallible genius his reflection multiplied in his sycophantic senators and congresspersons who believe they cannot survive defying him. I don’t know if there is anyone in that group able to see the peril in this reckless act- reviving ISIS to rally the Kurds against a faithless and betraying US- this will come back to haunt us sooner than later and the blame is squarely on those who kept this president unchecked.
5
Trump’s malevolent foreign policy incoherency: to withdraw 200 U.S. troops that allowed the Kurds to continue to keep ISIS fighters imprisoned “so we can bring the troops home,” and, at the same time, as reported, send 3000 more U.S. troops to guard Saudi oil fields from attack. Oil over combatting terrorism.
10
Remember, Bernie Bros and other Democrats that couldn't be troubled to vote: This is your fault, too!
3
No worries about ISIS making a comeback. The Kurds will have our back, just like Trump had theirs.
Oh . . .
6
Once again trump takes an action that benefits Putin and damages America.
8
The Kurds should not be blamed, when ISIS fighters escape. The ad hoc Prison Camps were only ever a temporary solution to a permanent problem The West lacks the will to deal with fanatics like ISIS. The Western countries should have taken the ISIS militants and given them Life Imprisonment. Well, they set an example, alright: commit genocide, rape, torture, maiming, and you will hrld in captivity for just one year.
2
The Republican party betrayal of the Kurds has lead to the resurgence of ISIS. The entire party needs to be disbanded for allowing this slaughter of our allies and the unleashing of evil on the world.
5
Haiku
Have I missed something?
Syrian Kurds fought ISIS...
Trump abandons Kurds.
7
As an American I am ashamed of how we have treated our allies.... now and in the past. We will never have the full trust of future allies if we ever get countries to follow us. Trump has sold out the office of the president for his family’s gain. Can’t wait to retire from government service so I can write a book about the idiotic leadership and policies we have to follow and enforce... it would make your head spin.
5
I thought Trump had eliminated ISIS. Now he has revived them. Thank you Mr. President. It will be interesting to see how he decimates the Turkish economy which will create havoc in Europe when the 3.5 million refugees are released.
26
Does anyone remember the US invasion of Iraq? The problem today is that we have entire populations who live in the moment and have no inkling of what happened just recently for they are lost to google to tell them everything; non can do a first order analysis, forget about any higher orders.
Just prior to the 1991 invasion of Iraq, Iraq had been given the green light by the USA to invade Kuwait. Soon after that Iraq became the aggressor, Saddam Hussein was a horrible person whilst he had kept Iraq together albeit by the barrel of a gun, and of course, the USA created this scenario and obliterated Iraq.
Now, it seems the USA is planning a similar fate for Turkey. First giving them the green light to invade Syria, and then talking about obliterating their economy.
I will just tell the USA to beware that your sins don't find you out. Going on this path will eventually bring you down. Turkey was not Iraq and do not talk nonsense of obliterating their economy or shutting it down. Turkey has been dealing with these Kurdish terrorists for a long long time and understand them at many degrees higher than the amateurish US President and his ignorant men sitting in that White House. US would be well advised to not mess with Turkey, and I am sure why Turkey purchased the S400 systems just for these scenarios to bring down F35s or others. Beware and start talking sense.
8
Please tell me if the most recent terrorist act the Kurds committed.
1
Oh, but I thought they were all wiped out?
TRUMP NEEDS TO GO....NOW!
19
I just don't understand the logic of the Turkish government when it refers to Kurdish fighters as terrorists. The Kurds were primarily responsible for destroying ISIS.
If a country wages war, it ought to have a pretty good reason. Smokescreen is not one of them.
7
A highly alarming footnote to this action: just last month, Putin, Erdogan, and Rouhani had a "trilateral summit" in Turkey where they announced a "settlement in Syria" in which they "condemned the US Administration," and "agreed to coordinate their efforts" to achieve "security and stability in this region" (this is all straight from the Kremlin's English language website, by the way).
So, just a couple of weeks after this summit, Trump takes a call from Erdogan and immediately defies the wishes of his political party, his State department, and his military advisers to give an alliance of Turkey/Russia/Iran the carte blanche power to to destroy one of our Allies, and that's not suspicious? And not only does he abandon an official US ally because "he campaigned on ending war" but he then sent troops into Saudi Arabia -- a non-US ally who has given him and his family emoluments, and that's not suspicious?
He's not just the Manchurian candidate, he's the Manchurian-Russian-Turkish-Saudi-Ukrainian candidate. He oozes treason from every pore of his body and we can't even seem to bust him for cheating on his taxes, which also seems obvious. It's simply incredible.
37
@Brannon Perkison
The term "Allies" needs to be used with caution. Defining terrorist groups such as the PKK and extensions of PKK (such as YPG) is also a Manchurian perspective. Those tribal militants kill babies, sell drugs, and rape women. They are not cute allies to rely on, and they cannot be generalized as the Kurds.
If you have a good grasp of the Middle Eastern affairs to know about meetings between Turkey, Russia, and Iran, you should also know more Kurds live in Istanbul than any other city in the world.
I am not a Trump fan, but let's be clear, the Democrats did more harm to the stability of Middle East than Trump. It was the Obama administration that acted without any morality or principles, and filled the Middle East with drones and spies, and provided weapons and financial aid to terrorists. Why? It was cheaper to do so. The party is over now. And we need leadership to make sure Turkey does not shift towards the dark side.
2
The Republican Party and its energetic supporters AND their communities own the outcome of this Turkish/Kurdish disaster.
They own it and should be held morally accountable for any resurgence in a terrorist group.
11
Attempting to intervene and rationalize disputes in the Middle East is like trying to referee a fencing match in an asylum for the criminally insane.
1
Why everyone says kurds,including nyt. Who controls the north syria now? Who is in charge? Ypg, pkk. Who is fighting? Pkk, ypg . They are known terrorist, declared by us state department, eu, rest some 20 years ago. The reason they avoid using these names, they all know they are dealing with known terrorists, only “our useful friend terrorists” hence using the kurd nAme instead. Propaganda, marketing 101. Change names, distract people.
Simple search, of course people are gullible and ignorant, they believe propaganda and simple things. Ohh our friends who helped us fight isis, lets help them. Simple human emotions to foul people is effective, if you do not follow the region closely, neocons and cheney types will foul you into another yellow uranium cake fake story again. And they are successful. Look at media, they are part of this fake story before and part of iraq war, they are at it again. Part of establishment. No wonder epstein got away for so long, newspaper reporters are part of the system that is corrupt to the core.
report published by HRW, stated that the PKK was believed to have been responsible for more than 768 executions. The organization had also reportedly committed 25 massacres, killing more than 300 people. More than hundred victims were children and women.[44][44][45][46][47]
5
Copied straight from wikipedia. The body count of the Turkish goverment is much higher, Whether it be the brutal and Authoritarian goverment in the late 20th century or the Amernian Genocide. Pick a few
2
Congratulations, President Trump: In one short phone call with your friend Turkish President Erdogan you have disrupted the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, given your permission for thousands to die, and increased our chances of having to live through more 9/11s in the future! Did Erdogan dupe you into thinking this was just a little tiny troop pull out or didn't you think or know enough to tell him you were going to leave the limited number of troops we had in place? These troops were keeping the peace and making progress on a safe zone. Now, all hell is breaking loose. I know its hard -- but once in a while you might think (or consult your advisors) before you speak or tweet.
15
I cannot believe how far down the page this story is.
Tens of thousands of civilians are fleeing their homes...
350 Kurd fighters dead...
Iran oil tanker attacked...
3,000 US soldiers sent to SA to protect —- oil...
Turkey has detained 121 people for their social media posts condemning the attacks...
and shockingly enough, ISIL is attacking again.
It’s day 3.
Buckle up Buttercup.
27
Trump, Mnuchin and Pompeo are cowards who are not only serving up the Kurds toTurkey for slaughter, but are bowing to Erdogan and his agenda to eliminate them, as in genocide.They fought bravely with us to eliminate the threat of Isis and their attempt to establish a caliphate.We are safer thanks to the Kurds-we are now in danger thanks to Trump and his weak advisors.They not only betrayed the Kurds, they have betrayed Americans.
14
Why not send in Hen Team 13 aka Don, Jr., Ivanka, Eric and Tiffany Trump to settle this matter and show some Trump love and power willingness to sacrifice blood?
While Jared ' Hidden Genius ' Kushner uses his legendary diplomatic skills ably asissted by Mike ' Pompous' Pompeo and Rudy ' Goofy' Giuliani .
No collusion! MAGA!
11
Worth watching. Report from the BBC last night. See how 5 year Kurdish girl had her lower leg blown off and her 12 year old brother killed. The Trump regime have enabled this carnage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lauXEUg5cjI
16
Mattis and Kelly, ex-marines, have no spines and wouldn't protect their own children from this egomaniacal kleptocrat.
7
The Kurds have been and will continue to be betrayed by everyone. The Arabs, the Turks, the Iranians, the British, Europe, the Americans. The largest clearly defined nation on Earth - 25 million people - without their own sovereign state.
All they ever wanted was independence. They never questioned any other country's right to exist or vowed to annihilate any neighbor. And they don't celebrate people who machine gun school busses as heroes or martyrs.
If they were fighting the Jews... uh, I mean Israel, there'd be paroxysms of outrage, endless UN Security Council emergency meeting, calls for boycott and divestment, countries and the UN declare they recognize a Kurdish state even though symbolically rather than in reality ad nauseum. But they're not fighting Israel. And so there is no fig leaf to hide all that Israel and Jew hate behind semi-convincingly. So like Tibet, the world makes some easy noise and then moves on to something else.
And Israel is reminded that ultimately no country is ever to be fully trusted, and keep your powder dry, and your nukes in a safe space no matter how lofty the rhetoric, as if the last 2000 years, especially the 1940s, isn't reminder enough.
5
This appals me. 100,000 estimated to have fled the their homes already. Triggered by Trump playing to his base. What a miserable, deranged bar steward of a president you have.
15
This is as near as we have come yet to going into a war we can't win out of spite of Trump. The cheering demanding the Americans fight to create a Kurdistan out of 1/3 of Syria can only lead to defeat, and only because those cheering hate Trump so much they'd rather do something obviously foolish.
6
@Mark Thomason: Everybody insulted, stiffed, lied to, and betrayed by Trump has good reasons to hate him. Trump has made a lot of enemies, many of whom can keep their heads cool and that will be his undoing. He who stabs others in the back, better watch his own. Trump will be done in by someone close to him.
Trump loves autocrats and dictators. He'd love to be able to jail, torture, and kill his opponents at home as the likes of Kim Jong Un, MBS, Putin, el-Sisi, Duterte, and Erdogan do.
Unpatriotic to an extreme.
8
And the outraged republicans who decry this moronic move are still fully engaged in defending the rest of the deplorable dt’s actions.
My head stopped spinning a while back.
Impeach. Now.
8
Erdogan, Trump, his White House Middle East advisors and immoral enablers should be brought to trial in The Hague for this atrocity.
4
Erdogan is a dictator, a killer with no conscious about bombing the Kurd children and neither does Trump and, apparently, most of the coward, republicans in Congress.
Trump and his enabling republicans now have blood on their hands and ISSIS will now re-reformulate to now attack and kill more civilians and more of our soldiers. Then, they’ll slip back into America ... Trump’s presidency.
3
This is Syria not a Kurdistan!! The terrorist Kurd drove 100k of Syrians out of there villages . All this land is a Syrian land since 3000 years (Assyria) Why USA didn’t help the Syrian army fighting ISIS .lets take care of our own people with opioid crisis and homelessness.
3
Trump is a contemptible disgrace and should be impeached for aiding and abetting Turkish terrorism and slaughter of the Kurds.
8
Thanks for giving the green light to Turkey Donald . You are an absolutely incompetent President. This is a reckless , costly and extremely dangerous blunder.
353
@Ollie It's not just stupid. Erdogan, Putin, and Rouhani (the Iranian leader) met last month and planned this all out in a "trilateral" summit where they agreed to coordinate this -- this is straight from a Kremlin press release. Then Erdogan called Trump and (it seems) told him to clear out. Simple as that. Trump bent to the wishes of a Russian-Turkish-Iranian alliance and let them have Syria, its oil, and a round of ethnic cleansing against our former allies, the Kurds. It was all planned out. Trump just rolled with it, like a good little compromised asset of the Russian Government.
46
Trump's puppet defense secretary Esper has declared that US hasn't abandoned the Kurds and that Turkey should withdraw. This may be news to the Kurds who are fleeing the Turks. It's a lie designed to confuse and provide cover for Trump's stupidity in handling this situation.
248
@blgreenie
Interesting how he claims he took the troops out to fulfil a promise...and yet he’s sending 1500+ to Saudi Arabia.
Go figure.
9
Beyond the Turkish obsession with destroying the Kurds who won't submit to their quest for regional dominance, the very idea that ISIS fighters would escape and as DJT says "go back to Europe" is beyond insane,
Turkey never took the fight against ISIS seriously enough, conveniently letting others like the Kurds do the major work along with Russian and US airstrikes, Now they will be part in resurrecting the movement,
Yet, the US could have stopped this by simply keeptng its small forces in the area so that a final way to deal with the ISIS captives could be determined,
Trump owns this and needs to be held accountable,
3
"But we can shut down the Turkish economy if we need to." So paper-tiger talk. It does not sound like from a world-power, leading nation.
2
Just slice off the eastern third of Anatolia and divide it between the Kurds and Armenians.
Kinda like what Wilson wanted to do.
The original Treaty of Sèvres map was brilliant.
1
I understand well the desire of the Kurds for an independent state. But this does not mean that all they are doing is right and acceptable. Turkey has a legitimate right to stop the terrorist activity of the Kurds from Iraq and Syria which killed scores of Turkish civilians in the soil of Turkey. When terrorists hit it is necessary sometimes to go to the country where they came from to fight against them. This is exactly what we did against Al-Qaeda by invading Afghanistan.
5
@Turgut Dincer
Yeah, those darn terrorist acts from many decades, ago, mean that the Kurdish region will prey on Turkey. It's just Erdogan using war to distract his people from his crass and brutal efforts to rule over Turkey with no opposition. The Turks hate the Kurds and that's the only motivation for this, not Turkish national security. The U.S. screen kept allies who mistrust each other from being in striking distance of each other. Erdogan asked Trump to remove the U.S. troops so that he could invade.
3
What carrot or stick did Mr. Erdogan entice Mr. Trump with in that phone call? Just guessing that the decision was based on the personal interests of Donald J. Trump, not the USA.
2
For centuries the Sunni Muslim ethnic Kurds have believed in gender ethnic sectarian equality of opportunity and tolerance, education, commerce and military excellience.
They are among the most effective and motivated foes of the Sunni Muslim Wahhabi extremist terrorist likes of al Qaeda, ISIS, the Saudi royals and the Gulf Arab States
What the Kurds lack is a nation state where they are a majority.
What the Kurda lack is a new age leader of the caliber of Saladin.
What the Kurds lack are honorable moral allies and friends.
7
Turkey under Erdogan is much more the enemy of our country - consistently blaming his nations self-inflicted ills on imaginary US subterfuge. Now Trump has betrayed our Kurdish brothers in arms who for years fought alongside our own soldiers. All it took was a Sunday phone call and no notice to the Kurds that we had agreed to let Erdogan invade with tanks and ground troops after shelling their villages where their families were now located. We should have held a joint parade with Kurdish and American soldiers walking side by side once they contained ISIS. Instead we threw away our chances of ever having a formidable Muslin ally left in the region. Maybe Trump was disgusted that the Kurd's treated women better than any other Islamic sect? That they protected other religious minorities against Islamic extremism? Even now Erdogan keeps ten's of thousands of teachers, lawyers, journalists and others who dared question his authority locked up in jails without due process. Trump, Erdogan, Putin, Xi Jinping, Poland's Duda, the Philippines Duterte et al are the ilk that will bring on WWIII.
5
This is Turkey’s mess.
They invaded Syria.
I know it will be trumpeted as ‘the USA messed up again’, but reminder, we are not the ones doing the aggression.
I say let Turkey handle the mess they are making. No point in getting involved in every tussle in the Middle East, who has been a cauldron of passions and wars since there is a written record of human history.
That the US was able to defer for a was for a few, maybe years? Months? It’s already almost a miracle.
Too bad they need us baby sitting them all the time before they start killing each other the moment we look away.
Donald, do you really think displaced, injured, killed Kurds will be impressed by after the fact economic sanctions? Threatening an economy is utterly meaningless in light of the real life tragedy that has been inflicted on so many.
3
Could someone in Washington explain why we withdrew a small group of soldiers from Syria and allow a slaughter of our allies at the same moment we send 1800-2000 troops to Saudi Arabia? The country that produced the 9/11 disaster in the USA?
8
This is bad in every which way.
With 100,000 already refuged, we are creating another (totally avoidable) humanitarian crisis, letting our ally Kurds be slaughtered, and probably letting go free of thousands of ISIS prisoners.
2
To date, we have only the slightest hint of the catastrophe wreaked by a mentally challenged, impulsive president with the moral compass of a cinder block and the judgment of a garden slug.
The president is getting ever more grotesquely and dysfunctionally pathological. He justifies his gratuitous abandonment of the Kurds to their grisly death, dismemberment and dispossession by blaming them for failing to join us in storming the beaches of Normandy. Say what?
What's the response to such profound obtuseness? Seth Meyers and Stephen Colbert, our tired souls and broken hearts turn to you.
If the president were not the very antithesis of mirth, he'd be the world's most celebrated stand-up comedian.
But there's nothing funny about him.
2
Is anyone here surprised?
Heck, they were 101% defeated.
1
In 2016 Turkey implemented operation Europhrates shield against ISIS/DAESH, destroying several thousands of terrorists and itself loosing 71 military serviceman and dozens of civilians.
References:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Euphrates_Shield
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey%E2%80%93ISIL_conflict
As a matter of fact in 2016 Turkey suggested several times to take the responsibility all of the anti ISIS anti DAESH operations upon itself. This suggestion fell upon deaf ears in western countries.
Instead, the USA choose to implement the rest of the anti ISIS anti DAESH operation with YPG/SDG, which they armed to the teeth in the last couple years.
Today, ISIS/DAESH terrorist organization is fully defeated.
However, In just the last 2 days the PYD/YPG/SDG forces fired several mortar rounds against Turkish cities killing more than 15 civilians (many of them women and children) so far, justifying why Turkey does not want these Militants (Terrorists) along its border within firing rage.
This is exactly, why Turkey has been crying out the last 2 years for the need of a safe zone along its Syrian borders.
No democratic country in the world would willingly allow any other force along its border striking civilian targets or sending terrorists into its jurisdiction.
7
@Burak
True with one exception. Turkey is not a democratic country. If Turkey were a democratic country, Selahattin Demirtas, the democratically elected leader of the Kurdish people in Turkey would be released from jail, and Erdogan's party would lose its majority in the parliament. If democratic forces prevailed, Turks and Kurds would stop fighting and develop a strong partnership that would only contribute to the stability and prosperity of the region.
2
let's hope someone shows this to the guy in the WH. He has no idea how bad this is going to be .....and he made the decision on a whim without the benefit of council.....
Very very poor behavior
One question, was the phone call with Erdogan as perfect as the call was with Zelensky?
3
Only 138 comments so far --mine makes 139 -- about the withdrawal of American troops from the Turkish - Syrian border.
Why so few? Why such muted outrage?
Trump's reckless decision is a knife in the back to our Kurdish partners and a get-out of jail free card to ISIS fiends. Trump's decision to bow to Ergodan's wishes has the potential to destabilize even further an already trip-wired Middle East tinderbox but it garners only 139 comments in seven hours.
Whereas the article about Trump's removal of the US ambassador to Ukraine and its relevancy to the impeachment process attracts 1548 comments in the same amount of time.
The liberal bloc is all in a lather about impeachment even though it has little chance of ending in a Senate conviction because the vast majority of Republican are opposed to it and even though Trump will be already running for a second term by the time the process works its way to a conclusion.
The enormity of Trump's decision to abandon the Kurds is a life and death matter many times over and Trump has earned his harshest criticism from leading members of his own party. However, the Democrats and their ilk are so myopically focused on Impeachment that they're missing the real crime.
Trump's impeachment has become a smokescreen for his many other indiscretions and out-right stupidity.
Why are NYT readers being so easily misled?
1
Trump will inflame and still maintain that he keeps his word by crippling the economy of Turkey. He will rewrite history with his distorted view and abandon allies.
As Presidents in the past talked about bully pulpit, we have a bully in the pit that will drag down everyone. Shameful, deplorable and insanity at full display.
1
Threats to “shut down” another country’s economy are arrogant, bellicose and never work out the way they plan. People are creative and especially when they are threatened. They will find other ways to survive and work with those much closer to them than we are. Then what? Trump unleashed the dogs of war while claiming we should withdraw from the region; a few days later it’s more taxpayer funding for the Saudis! Lies and more lies and where does he get the money without Congress appropriating it?
2
Definition of Treason in the U.S. Constitution:
“Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”
Trump green lighted Turkey's attack on the Kurds by saying he would remove US troops from Syria. We could not have defeated ISIS without the assistance of the Kurds. Many Kurds will now die and thousands of ISIS combatants will probably be freed to attack the US again. This aids ISIS and Islamic extremism, Putin, Assad and Erdoğan and endangers US security. A rational case can now be made that Trump has committed treason according to the constitutional definition.
2
Another catastrophe of Trump's Creation. Is this the point in his Presidency where he becomes more Presidential? Or possibly the point he spoke about during the Primaries where he said...you're going to be so sick of Winning you'll beg me to stop? If this is another example of Trump and his supporters idea of MAGA...I'd like to know...just what are they supporting? What a MESS !!!!
1
Throw Turkey OUT of NATO! Because we are obliged to support them in a war, it is conceivable that we might be called upon to go to war against the Kurds if requested. This Mad President needs to go.
1
@JerryV
Yep. Mr Trump has really been cosying up with the rest of NATO, hasn't he? He'll need all that goodwill - NATO is a Treaty organisation not a department of the White House.
Double oops! Turkey is one of those NATO countries that actually pays more than its way. No leverage there..
2
The big winner in all this is Putin, Trump’s handler. We throw allies under the bus, allow terrorists to escape, and pander to an autocrat who pursues ethnic cleansing. This is pure Trump. Then he turns around and sends 1800 troops to protect the murderer, MBS, who just happens to be Kushner’s buddy. The misuse and abuse of American foreign policy in the service of Trump, Inc. is beyond disgusting, immoral and corrupt. And don’t get me started about Giuliani, Pence and Pompeo in Ukraine. This evil is beyond belief and our GOP does NOTHING. They own all this.
2
Standard Operating Procedure in the Trump White House:
1. Trump, unprepared, is on the phone..."Sure..go ahead. We are pulling out" No consultation with the State or Defense Departments necessary.
2. Backlash ensues as the consequences of Trump's stupid, thoughtless, knee jerk statements become clear.
3. In an attempt to clean up his mess, Trump threatens Turkey with sanctions if they attack the Kurds.
4. Turkey attacks.
5. Days go by.
6. The Donald dismisses the value of the Kurds by saying they didn't "help us win WWII",as if that has anything to do with this, thereby washing his hands of the situation.
7. Kurdish men, women and children die.
When will Republicans finally say enough is enough? When will they finally acknowledge that Trump doesn't "know more than the generals"? When will they finally admit that we are being led by an uniformed, vulgar dunce who can't be bothered to read briefing papers? (That would cut into his TV and Twitter time.) When will our country mean more to Republicans than their party and their elected office?
414
@Jeff
Looking like it's the 12th of never, and that's a long long time.
15
8. Sometime in the near future, American lives will be lost at the hands of a reconstituted ISIS or betrayed Kurds.
16
@Jeff
Sadly, Republicans do know all this and choose to be silent. I have no expectation that this will change, as the RP is so far gone that the only remedy is to vote all them out of power.
17
Moscow Mitch, like his idol, Donald Trump, will betray anyone for power and that includes our allies, like the heroic Kurdish people. In betraying the Kurds he has also betrayed the American people.
11
@DSD -- Don't imagine that 1/3 of Syria can be taken from Syria and turned into a new state, many of whose people who are moved there from elsewhere.
That is the sort of thing that created the long running problem with Israel/Palestine. Don't try to do it again.
Even if you imagine doing it again is wise, Russia and Iran and Turkey and the remaining rump of the Syrian state won't let it happen. This isn't a helpless colonial holding, it is a state with an army, surrounded by like-minded allies with armies.
3
Trump is not smart enough to figure out which side he is on...first, he removes American troops who hold the line in northern Syria - because they are American...not because of their numbers. They are in Syria to protect our allies the Kurds and secure the ISIS prisoners. Next, he gives Turkey the go-ahead to attack our allies, the Kurds, because they "did not help in WW11"...(nothing about ISIS). Then this morning, he attacks Turkey for attacking the Kurds, threatening sanctions. Turkey claims the Kurds are terrorists...America does not. Where can he possibly go from here? I guess he is waiting for a call from Putin.
7
The Kurds should go to the World Court and sue Erdogan and Trump for crimes against humanity. The reported deaths didn’t have to happen.
8
The Syrian Kurds are not terrorists - the Kutrds are. People looking to regain a homeland lost after WW II - thanks to the West. Syria like Yemen is a pawn of foreign interests / the bottom line oil. The Turks, like Egypt have imprisoned tens of thousands people. Trump on his supreme ignorance is responsible for genocide in the Middle East. He and Pompeo should be charged with crimes against humanity. To those cheering his crude lies, falsehoods, and disparaging of American democracy/ shame on you. It’s no wonder the hardworking coastal inhabitants are angry with people supported by their taxes through subsidies. Thanks
3
The big story is right before our eyes.
“By capturing land previously held by the Islamic State, Kurdish fighters were then able to create an autonomous statelet that now spans roughly a quarter of all Syrian territory and is effectively independent of the central Syrian government in Damascus.”
A Kurdish nation state has been created. It is called Rojava. (Read about it in Wikipedia.)
It consists of the eastern third of what was previously Syria. It has a constitution and assembly of sorts, and a military. It controls all major road access into Syria from Iran. (This is why the U.S. helped the Kurds create Rojava.) It also controls the Al Assad dam, which controls the flow of the Euphrates down river.
The current action by Turkey will take maybe 10% of Rojava, along the northern border, with specific focus on road crossings. It will be the last major fighting to occur and will establish Rojava’s formal borders.
Within 10 years, Rojava will be formal nation state with international recognition. And perhaps several U.S. military bases.
This is the big picture. Anyone who isn’t blinded by Trump hatred is able to see it.
4
@John
Sure - the universal condemnation from military, diplomatic and both sides of the political aisle is driven by Trump hatred.
No one, even an actual stable genius, should implement decisions in a vacuum.
2
So. let's see -- Trump went 5000 additional troops to Iraq and now will send about 3,000 more to Saudi Arabia and yet his Kool-aid drinkers believe him when he says that withdral of about 500 troops from Syria means that the US has won the war and we are getting out.
No wonder we are in deep trouble.
4
This is the most horrendous act of self interest and cowardice that we have ever beheld from Trump.
Let me get this straight. The House can pronounce on war, yet it is powerless to the whims of a maniac on dictating terms of withdrawal? Clearly it is not right that unilateral decisions, by one flawed and compromised man can be allowed to danger thousands of lives?
Turkey will do mission creep, as well he knows. Yes, ISIS fighters will attempt European returns. Refugees likewise will flee, perhaps to Europe but unlikely given their access to the Med with his forces in the way. Shirking Turkey's responsibilities concerning existing Syrian refugees lands him in economic and political trouble. Much of what Erdogan threatens is hot air.
The international community can do much. Will it?
More than words are needed but Trump's green light is heinous and needs investigating. Do not let this criminal get a 2nd term please!!
3
I want to know if the US gave the coordinates of our Kurdish allies to help kill them in the bombing campaign.
2
@Sherry
a) Why on earth do you suspect that Mr Trump would have done that? Turkey has a modern, very large, well equipped military. They'll have been scoping out Kurdish positions for weeks, if not months. If they lack things like satellite photo-recon (which I doubt), there are any number of private organisations willing to sell them those services. Why do so many Americans believe that the rest of the world lives in mud huts? Is that on the school curriculum?
b) You might WANT to know but, on something like that, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting to be told.
1
Trump's despicable act of betrayal of the Kurds will result in the resurrection of ISIS and the strengthening of autocrats like Assad and Erdogan - all bad for the USA.
What does Turkey and Russia have on Trump that makes him so malleable?? Or is he simply anti-US interests due to his bromance with Putin??
Trump is a Traitor to American interests. He deserves impeachment and jail for financial crimes.
4
The inability and/or the lack of thinking and/or the failure of a backbone of the nations of the UN are a 21st Century of the failure of the League of Nations in the late 1920's and the early 1930's. Trump's move to pull troops out of Syria and letting Turkey wipe out the Kurds is so similar of Chamberlain and Hitler in Munich and "Peace in our Time" spoken by Chamberlain in 1938. Woe to the people of the world. Woe to the people of the United States. We are leaderless.
3
American carnage. This illegitimate president trump has shown in brutal acts, ordered my him and him alone, what American carnage means.
Russia is running America to make it worse. Moscow Mitch - maybe even Melania - all say nothing.
We now make decisions to cause the slaughter of the Kurds, including many innocent women/children - many who fought for us - while more carnage will follow with Isis terrorists sealed to the world.
The trumps treat humanity with cold, immoral apathy - as djt jr. treats precious wild animals in Africa. They don't care about slaughter of fellow mankind - its theirAmerican carnage - as long as it does not affect their dirty money and lifestyles.
Immigrants die at our borders b/c trumps soldiers in his immigrant war just don't care. Even when children, this is not American's way.
I grew up and today thought our military was so tough and fought for liberty and justice. Where are they? A rising up from all ranks, including the serpents in the white house, could end all of this. But, no, our govt is filled with feckless cowards.
American citizens can do nothing, we have no power with an illegitimate autocrat now running our country.
Meanwhile, the hundreds of thousands trump's cronies spend for elaborate parties and events at the trump properties could feed all our poor children.
When will someone act - it must be someone in power? Who will it be? Is there no person in power with any courage.
The decline of America has come.
3
And here we are.
The Kurdish people are going to die because Trump is the US president.
Thanks to all who voted for him! Your vote helped to cause this.
The Kurds will die because tens of millions of my fellow Americans thought it was appropriate to put this sick, monstrous, dangerous man in office - and they knew who he was when they voted for him.
I'm sickened by what has been wrought on the world because of our willfully uneducated, racist voters and a raving man named Trump
Trump let go of the leash of the Turkish Madman and the Kurds are now on the run for their lives, carrying their children as they're bombed and shot at. We have betrayed the Kurdish people who have been fighting and imprisoning Islamic terrorist fighters for years. They helped us fight, now we abandon them.
And you know what?
TRUMP DOESN'T CARE.
Not at all. Innocent people are dying, and it is irrelevant to him. He's a narcissist. He may well be sociopathic - look up the definition. It fits him.
The man has no conscience. It's all about him, his Brand, and his boyfriend, Vladimir Putin.
Trump should be impeached for being a threat to us and a threat to our allies, a threat to the world. He should be impeached for allowing the Kurds to be slaughtered.
It really is that simple.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg was right: This is an aberration. Trump is an aberration.
And the voters who voted for him should be ashamed.
7
The press coverage of this is incredibility biased, black or white, lacking historical context. But let's put things in perspective, refresher our memory:
- US invades Iraq, Turkey doesn't participate and raises concerns (wise! wouldn't you say, looking back?)
- The region gets forever destabilized, hundreds of thousands die, regional civil wars start, including Syrian
- Bc of vacuum in the region, radical factions emerge, furthering destabilization
- Syrian civil war escalates
- Neighbor countries start getting an continuous flow of Syrian refugees, Turkey by far the largest recipient with whopping 3,614,108 out of 5,625,871 total REGISTERED refugees according to wikipedia, some estimate the numbers to be 50% higher with unregistered refugees
- With millions of Syrians forced to leave, the terrorist organization PKK (labeled as such by US, UN and Turkey) rebrands itself as YPG and starts taking control of the abandoned towns, mostly in the northern Syria, bordering Turkey
- Turkey kicks off a campaign to get 3.6 million registered Syrian refugees back to her homes if they are willing
- While Kurdish PKK/YPG has no intention or plan to do so, just concerned about starting their own state
So how about we say to Turkey:
1- Sorry for creating all this trouble on your doorsteps
2- Thank you for taking care of these refugees and sacrificing the lives of your troops in this mission, just like you did by helping us in Korea, Afghanistan and dozens of other NATO backed missions
36
@Em
The coverage of this is biased, but you are presenting a few facts "in perspective, to refresh our memory?" You must be joking.
-Your "refresher" ignores any role played by Asad in this.
-If the US, UN, and Turkey says the PKK are terrorists, then they must be right, I presume? I'm sure the US and UN take on this is completely independent of any attempt to appease Turkey on the matter and would have nothing to do with maintaining bases there. Just a factual assessment?
-The US invasion of Iraq was (and remains) an unmitigated disaster. That does not excuse Erdogan's egregious behavior; it has enabled Erdogan's egregious behavior.
In fact, nothing you say justifies Turkey's actions. US hypocrisy doesn't justify this. This one is on you...
60
@Em
It's a lot easier than that.
Our idiotic president that knows zero and has no interest in knowing anything about the complexities regarding this situation unilaterally made a decision that was roundly condemned by both sides of political aisle and by our own military and diplomatic leaders. There apparently was no planning, coordination or fore thought to prepare for what is currently happening. What more needs to be said? Our country is led by someone that is mentally ill and those that cover for him are complicit. No one knows the reason he made this decision but there was nothing resembling sound decision making involved here.
That's the history that's important. Nuanced discussions about foreign policy have no place where this country is now.
37
@Em
The memory must indeed be refreshed :
The present Turkish state has never admitted Turkey committed the 1915 Armenian genocide.
The present Turkish state continues Ataturk's long standing policy of oppressing the Kurds (together with all Turkey's minorities).
The PKK was created in self-defense.
The PKK, the SFD, the YPG, etc. do not, repeat do not, kill or torture captured Daesh prisoners. Repeat, do not.
As a Frenchman, if I had lived in 1944 and had had an SS in front of me and a gun, I would have shot. Kudos for the Kurds for being amazingly, bis, humane.
The PKK, the SFD, the YPG, the democratic federation of North East Syria have all announced, and repeat constantly their aim is not, repeat not, to create one more nation state.
I know, I spent May and June there, and I spoke to many people, incidentally many of them being hostile to, for example, the PKK.
So, any attempts to defend the actual ethnic cleansing and coming genocide are to be taken as complicity.
72
The Kurds of Iraq were the only functioning economy with a peaceful and tolerant culture. We seem to prefer the warlords all around them who only know violence and destruction. The long history of democracy should support rather than condemn the Kurds, who are attacked on all sides.
5
@Susan Anderson
Of course the "we" who prefer warlords in this case is Trump. It is perplexing otherwise to understand why we are removing troops from Syria, and putting troops into Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are killing women & children in Yemen with our help. The Kurds were keeping ISIS out of control in Syria. Now ISIS will likely come back.
2
Regardless of the back-stabbing of our allies in fighting ISIS, since when it is legal for Turkey to invade Syria and bombard Syrian Turks because they have "connections" to a Kurdish nationalists in Turkey? Also, Syrian Kurds have always had some autonomy within Syria; why does their autonomy within Syria justify Turkey's military bombardment? Yes Turkey has restive Kurds within its borders, but it seems it will only make everything worse to bombard Kurds in another country. All these questions about Turks on the border of Syria and Turkey are delicate diplomatic matters. They should have been settled diplomatically. They will not be settled by bombardment, by settling refugees among them, or by what is in essence, ethnic cleansing. That is why the answer is not, "Hope it ends quickly", it's this should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.
6
The BBC has reported that 100,000 people have fled their homes in northern Syria over the last few days. The number of refugees may greatly increase if the fighting intensifies. There is concern over the security of the prison camps which hold thousands of dangerous Islamic State prisoners. Turkey is an major NATO member and its armed forces are well capable of preventing more refugees and terrorists from reaching nearby countries and Europe. No country, including Turkey, needs more Syrian refugees.
4
Nobody really knows what will result from this military engagement. Eisenhower, who was an adept and experienced military planner, stated that plans come apart as soon as the engagement begins. In war, while many things can be anticipated, there are always unexpected consequences and often not intended ones. Allowing this to happen was just mindlessness on the part of Trump. Nobody knows how this will conclude and who will benefit and who not. That is why the policy of U.S. has been to avoid war by using other means of diplomacy until all the options have run out. While war may seem to be a simple solution, it usually is not.
What is likely, is that the Kurds will suffer huge casualties because Turkey has genocide in mind but Turkey may find that the Kurds do not go easily and perhaps may suffer a lot worse losses than they think. In the end, I think that the United States will be the loser, the party that let a very ugly crisis happen.
4
“The operation is against a terror group,” Mevlut Cavusoglu, Turkey’s foreign minister,
This claim is absurd. Turkey is trying to free thousands of ISIS terrorists. Intentionally or unintentionally really doesn’t matter. Turkey is completely intolerant of Christians and every other non-Muslim religious minority. They are the same sect of Islam as the ISIS terrorists and share many of their beliefs. Those religious minorities in Syria are facing extreme danger from the presence of Turkish troops. In the process it has already killed 60 innocent civilians. In addition, the Turks have spent the last 500 years killing and oppressing Kurds. Why? Because the Kurds are the majority population in nearly a third of Turkey’s official boundaries and they have never accepted Turkish control or Turkey’s attempts to force them to assimilate into Turkish society by giving up their language, their culture and their traditions. Since when is the random killing of innocent civilians anything but terrorism. The Turkish state itself is the terrorist.
5
Presumably, he says it is time to "bring the troops" home from the middle east because they "should work it out" . Yet, the Pentagon just moved 1800 troops into Saudi Arabia.
4
Now we are sending troops to Saudi Arabia because the Saudis, who buy our weapons, apparently don't know how to use them. How is this action getting us out of the "unnecessary wars in the Middle East?" Did the Saudis help us in Wold War II and were they at Normandy" unlike the Kurds? The Saudis should enlist the Kurds to show them how to fight. I suppose the Saudis will blame Israel for lobbing the missiles at the Iranian tanker. Our recent actions of abandoning the Kurds are disgraceful.
5
Turkey has become a dictatorship, privy to NATO secrets while it cozies up to Russia and conducts a campaign of genocide.
Turkey demonstrably holds no loyalty to NATO, so why is this rogue state still a member nation?
4
Nice to see Turkey bringing some stability to the region!
When an imperialist power comes to middle east for the purpose of exploitation, slaughter, etc. (which you will read in media as bringing democracy, freedom etc.) it will look for local groups ready to betrayal to their nation. Kurdish groups tend to be this puppet in every such incidence.
What “nation” are you referring to? Syria which has historically oppressed Kurds?
1
Ah, this explains it:
"In Turkey Vs. Kurds Dispute, Trump Chooses The Side Where He Has A Condo Complex"
4
@Susan Anderson, Don't laugh, Susan. He also has or is planning to develop interests in Russia and China.
1
So, what happened to the unmatched wisdom from Dear Leader and his promise to destroy the economy of Turkey.
It would appear the Trump supporters have been hoodwinked, again.
Me, I never believe or have believed anything that Trump utters.
2
Let me get this straight. Trump pulls back U.S. troops, giving Turkey the green light to do what it has wanted to do in Syria for quite some time. Then, the administration acts outraged at a crisis that it created, and now threatens sanctions against Turkey. What? You mean to tell me that nobody saw this invasion coming? Please.
Just another day in the morally bankrupt world of Trump. These threats of economic reprisal aren’t fooling anyone; Trump et. al. should just stop with the pretense. Trump did Erdogan a favor — period, full stop. Another quid pro quo? Time will tell.
Abandoning an ally, and condemning thousands of innocent men, women, and children to a possibly deadly future, are both unforgivable and shameful.
This ill-considered action will have consequences that will extend far beyond Syria’s borders. We, and the rest of the world, will have to deal with this for years to come, all thanks to one man‘s short-sightedness and impetuousness.
193
@MDB Looks like Turkey as a nato member is not an ally to you but a terrorist organization which is recognized by the US as a terror organization??
1
So, let me understand.
We withdraw a few hundred troops that essentially protected our ally, the Kurds, in Syria so that they could be annihilated by the Turks, but will now send 1800 troops to Saudi Arabia to protect that country from Iran? Weren't most of the terrorists responsible for 9/11 from Saudi Arabia?
There is no "policy" in the Middle East - it's about money for a few people.
630
@paul MBS, the Saudi Arabian butcher, must have some deep pockets that Trump and Prince Jared need to tap for their storied real estate businesses.
67
@paul Kurds don't have any natural resources we could use... the Arabs do, that, basically, is the policy..
42
@paul Let me make you understand this issue.
PYD is essentially the Syrian branch of PKK (both Trump and Obama administrations admits that). PKK is an organization responsible for thousands of civilian deaths in Turkey in the last 35 years, and recognized as a terrorist organization by both the USA and European Union.
Yes, US is allying with a group in its terror list.
Turkey has been warning US since the Obama administration about this issue, and US was always saying that their relation with PYD is tactical, and their help to PYD is only limited to the war against ISIS.
Obviously US was lying to Turkey. (The main reason the ISIS is created in Iraq, which was under US occupation, was to open a land for the Kurds south of Turkey that spans from Kirkuk to mediterranean.)
Once the so-called war with ISIS is over, Turkey asked US to keep its promises. But US did not. US offered Turkey endless nogotiations.
Last week, Turkey told US that the time is up. Turkey is going to start the operation against these terrorists no matter what. And then US had to move its soldiers to the south.
In short, Turkey did not start operation because US soldiers left. US soldiers left because Turkey was determined to make the operations at any cot no matter what.
9
Green lighting the Turksih invasion of Kurdish occupied Syria is the worst betrayal of an ally in US history. I spoke with US Special Forces whom the Kurds, sheltered, protected and fought with in Syria. Special Forces praised the Kurds as incredibly brave and unwaveringly loyal allies Together the US and the Kurds defeated the Islamic state. Now, not only did the US betray the Kurds, whom they lived with only hours before, but according to news reports, providing bombing targets for the Turks. Look only at the body of a 7 year old killed by the Turkish invasion to ask yourself how the US could justify this. Sure the Turks deserve the right to protect their border and to move refugees to safe havens in Syria if that is possible. But why not negotiate that? The west has betrayed the Kurds since world war 1. However today the US has reached a new low in its diplomatic history. How can anyone trust us again?
379
@Bob Arnot MD
Not correct.
In the big picture, the U.S. didn't turn its back on the Kurds. The U.S. actually helped the Kurds create their own nation state, Rojava, out of the eastern third of Syria.
The current fighting is minor and will only determine the final northern Rojava border.
The U.S. and Kurds, with tacit agreement of Israel, Russia, and Turkey, have redrawn the national boundaries established about one hundred years ago. And this is good.
The creation of Rojava is in the strategic interest of the U.S. and Israel. It provides not only a future home for U.S. bases to control the northern part of the Middle East, but more importantly, cuts off all land supply routes from Iran to its Damascus and its proxies in Lebanon.
3
Troop manoeuvres are heading for Saudi. Trump has not forgotten his tiff with Iran. The world might be appalled, but so far all it is doing is watching in paralysed.
3
@John
You should post more often.
3
As a Turk, I must share my support for the Kurdish people, the disgraceful act, which Turkey is performing with perverted profoundness, is ethnic cleansing, simply refusing to cooperate, co-exist, or pursue diplomatic relations with the Kurdish people based solely on the fact that the other party belongs to a particular race.
At a time of such frenzy state of racial hatred, yours truly is much scared of raising an opposed voice in the light of being prosecuted, labeled much undesirable certain words and the particulars of the sort to a degree where I find it most appropriate to post this anonymously.
Nevertheless, I shall declare my sincere apologies for the vicious, unethical, unlawful acts of my country for which I am most ashamed of.
555
@Utku Kaan dear sir, thank you for your desire for peace. I do not understand why Kurds are considered a separate race.
43
@Utku Kaan
As a college student In the 1970's I had Iranian friends that actually asked me if I was a spy for the Shah. I thought they were joking. They weren't. I do understand your fear.
We are ashamed of Trump letting this happen.
All humans bleed red. Trump is not human.
81
@Utku Kaan
I also worry for any citizen of Turkey, Turkish or Kurdish, for what can be done to them because of not agreeing with the current dictator and this supporters. God be with you.
70
"Kurdish fighters were then able to create an autonomous statelet that now spans roughly a quarter of all Syrian territory and is effectively independent of the central Syrian government in Damascus."
It also controls key economic assets, and controls key transportation junctions. The specific areas now involved in fighting are not among the key economic assets nor transportation junctions, but the large Kurdish statelet comes into question if this part so important to Kurdish ambitions is lost. The Kurds and Turks both see that as about the Kurds on the Turkish side of the border, and the Kurdish ability to control and cross that border.
Meanwhile, Americans and Israelis are far more focused on the distant connects to Iran and Iraq, and the economic assets that could fund a long term Kurdish statelet. They want a new ally, lodged in the throat of current enemies, yet costing them as little as possible to maintain.
3
@Mark Thomason
Mostly agree.
But I do think that the "statelet", Rojava, is here to stay, regardless of what border area Turkey takes. While Turkey will indeed control the road access between Rojava and Turkey, but I think that the most important point is that Rojava will control all but one point of access into Syria.
(The U.S. will continue to control the other major access point from Iraq into Syria, near the Jordanian border.)
I think Rojava will be a formal, internationally recognized nation state within ten years, current fighting notwithstanding.
3
@John - really John "current fighting notwithstanding"? You could have said "current betrayal, and slaughter of allies notwithstanding."
@John -- Perhaps it is here to stay.
There are similar and related projects underway, subject to the same speculations about permanence. Is the West Bank and Gaza about to be extinguished? Is the Arab state of Jordan about to be gifted to the Palestinians in place of what Israel takes?
There is much impermanence in built into the designs of many actors, and many of them are mid-way in those projects now.
It is hard to see now which of those projects will have real permanence.
They do tend to reinforce each other. It is all connected.
A very large Rojava would cripple the enemies of Israel and give it an advanced base from which to protect its projected expansions. Israeli expansions would provide valuable allies and cover for an otherwise-isolated Rojava.
2
I don't see anyone talking about indiscriminate bombing of civilians by YPG which claimed civilian lives, wake up people there are no good guys or bad in a war.
10
@Berg
"Kurdish revolutionaries helped the U.S. expel the Islamic State from its capital city. Will we soon abandon them?" (2017): https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/dark-victory-in-raqqa
2
@Berg That doesn't make betraying your allies any more savory, does it?
1
Provide a source to back up this claim please
Being the villain doesn’t feel nearly as good as the movies make it seem.
I do know how to define the word ‘complicit’ now, though.
10
The pictures are great, but for these stories that are so geographically complex, a map would be very helpful.
2
Trump’s Ukraine call could get him impeached – but his Syria betrayal is worse
They can’t both defend themselves from the Turks and act as jailers for a group of 70.000 Isis fighters. When asked if all these Isis men might now escape and pose a threat elsewhere, Trump’s response was telling. “Well, they’re going to be escaping to Europe. That’s where they want to go.” Meaning if, thanks to me, Isis terrorists are now free to shoot people in Paris or blow up buses in London, that’s not my problem. And. Who benefits from a Ukraine deprived of cash and military equipment? Its the same person who benefits from a US pullback from Syria: Trump’s friend, Vladimir Putin.
27
@Désirée Bix
Agree. Occam's razor. It's all about the promotion of chaos in Western governments. Everywhere one looks you see DT's actions benefitting Russia, the wealthy who purchased his election and then were paid back with interest, and his own bottom line. Follow the money, as always.
Manafort got caught and now Rudi, his successor. Ukraine, if Congress is careful and consistent could prove to be his Watergate. And yet they have been and will continue to all be acquiring enormous new wealth as a result of these activities no matter what else happens. He realized this shortly after being elected and he is working it.
10
That's right, Désirée. The full content of this excellent article can be found here :
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/11/trump-deal-erdogan-lethal-consequences-ukraine-syria
@Désirée Bix -- When you make this all about Trump, you are blind to what matters and to the power plays that will decide what matters. It is navel gazing, domestic politics rather than foreign policy.
2
Chaos in Syria, what a shock to read. The more we try to fix something the more it breaks.
7
Since he green-lighted this catastrophe, has Trump muttered even a word of regret? Has he done anything to stop the Turks?
9
@proffexpert the Kurds didn't fight in D-Day so this is what they deserve.
@proffexpert Trump doesn't know the meaning of regret. He lacks the maturity to embrace it.
Trump put out the welcome mat when he withdrew US troops and gave Turkey his blessing.
9
Kurds don't have any natural resources, that, basically, is the U.S. policy.. "America First"
Now that we don't need allies, why waste our money and risk our lives on anyone else??? We are a nation of Narcissists - why is our foreign policy a surprise to anyone??
5
Such horror. I’m speechless.
8
At the United Nations, the United States and Russia vetoed a European-proposed motion to condemn Turkey’s assault against the Kurds.
The United States and Russia...Trump and Putin. There’s the link to so much this corrupt, self-dealing administration and its enablers do.
10
Trump abandons over 1,000 US troops in Syria.
Tells rally crowd that US has no troops in Syria.
Tell that to the families.
10
Be real “the group has sleeper cells in the region that could use the turmoil to retake the land they controlled in the early years of the Syrian civil war” there is not many isis fighters left, which region they control? Zero. Where are they? Ohh right, sleeper cells, :) so we are asked to believe some ghost might come back and capture north syria. This is another propaganda to continue this war another 20 years so military industrial complex and neocons continue their client state creation. Pkk and ypg declared terrorist and narco groups by europe, usa and rest and now they are good lads? :) come on. I got a bridge to sell in nyc.
6
When Recep Tayyip Erdoğan comes to Washington, we need to fill the streets.
13
Has Turkey ever said how big a buffer zone they want? I know this buffer zone was in the past only supposed to be 10 miles wide.
I know in the past Turkey has complained about PKK members coming over the border and causing trouble in parts of Turkey where the Turkish Kurds live. There have been miliary action within Turkey due to the PKK.
2
@Judy Weller,
18 miles.
But it is unlikely that Turkey can take and hold that much land across the entire border.
My guess is that they will secure about 18 miles at key road crossing points, and then maybe only a couple of miles in other border areas.
2
@Judy Weller, They want 20 miles. And maybe this information be useful to you, from 1980's to this day PKK killed over 35.000 people in Turkey.
1
@Judy Weller, 20miles.
Erdogan claims that he is carrying out this operation so he can secure a "safe zone" in which to resettle refugees from the Syrian war. But as we can plainly see, Turkey's incursion is creating MORE refugees.
I'm sure this suits Putin and Trump just fine. The immigration crisis brought on by the Syrian war has helped to make their far-right political allies MUCH more popular in Europe. You can see how they might be in favor of military actions that create more refugees, which in turn produce more anti-immigrant sentiment, which in turn makes their political allies more popular.
Human suffering is good politics for them.
12
Exactly Htb!
Why are people blaming Trump?
This is actually the 3rd time the US has let the Kurds down,
The first time was in the 1970s when it supported a Kurdish rebellion against the Iraqi state. When the rebellion failed, Kurds were hunted down and killed in the tens of thousands by Iraqi security forces. Kissinger consequently said that the US wasn't acting as "missionary" in the Middle East and that the Kurds ought to have understood this.
The second time was during the Gulf War. Coalition leaders gave vague promises of helping Kurds in their struggle for autonomy in exchange for them standing up to Saddam Hussein. Yet, after liberating Kuwait, they US changed its mind and decided not to push on towards Bahghdad. The ensuing ceasefire agreement then enabled Saddam to focus his attention on quelling the Kurdish uprising. Again, tens of thousands were killed.
Trump may be in power now, but it isn't hard to recognise that that America is just repeating the same old policies of yesterday. The Kurds never mattered sadly, and perhaps never will. They are perceived as collateral at best, a useful asset in taming ISIS.
So after abandoning the Kurds to Saddam Hussein's Iraq, the US now abets Erdogan's Turkey in yet another ethnic cleansing campaign. This is the price of aligning with the US.
17
@Jack
When Trump's remaining vassals learn that he's no less prone to stabbing them in the back as he has done to the Kurd's, it'll be too late. His "word" is worth less than a Zimbabwe dollar. Kurds (who, by the way, did not support the Colonists in 1776, for shame) who actually risked their lives to protect Americans, are learning that the Americans are not to be trusted. And that lesson will be not lost on millions of foreigners on whom the US depends. Trump is much more a traitor than those he falsely accuses of treason.
11
@Jack It's the abruptness of this decision. No transition planning. No plan to deal with ISIS captives. Outright abandonment of an allied group that fought well along side our special forces to contain and defeat ISIS. For that, Trump deserves scorn.
11
@Jack
"Why are people blaming Trump?"
Because he is responsible for it, and more over he did it against all expert advice to the contrary and with no planning whatsoever. He's had 10 months to make plans, listen to expertise, involve the military and partners, but nada, zero, zilch, just his usual irresponsible decree by tweet.
Just because it's a pattern, it doesn't absolve him.
13
The issue of abandonment of the Kurds, our Middle East ally for decades, is beyond criminal BUT this was done two days before the president announced that he will be pulling out of the Open Sky Treaty. This allows the Russians to develop and test their advanced weaponry without the US having the ability to check it out. Why? Is Trump continuing to provide Putin with wins? Basically inviting Turkey to ethnically cleanse an area of Syria is beyond horrible but this was a deflection from the even more frightening story of the abrogation of the Open Sky Treaty.
30
Instead of condemning Turkey for its attacks, why not seek to provide help caring for the refugees in Turkey and help reducing Kurd violence against Turkey?
The article states 3.6 million Syrian refugees are in Turkey. If true, Turkey is apparently caring for more refugees than any other nation on Earth.
The U.S. and European countries don't want these refugees. Furthermore, Kurds seeking their own land of Kurdistan have committed violence against Turkey as well as displacing persons in Syria themselves. The Kurds are likely directly responsible for causing some of the refugees in Turkey to flee there from Syria.
I abhor all violence and feel that ideally all conflicts could be resolved fairly and peacefully. But that's easier written than attained. Kurds have been fighting various groups for thousands of years, seeking their own homeland, including Saladin who led Muslims against European Crusaders during the Crusades.
17
The refugees in Turkey and Syria do not speak Spanish and although they are really in fear for their lives, they do not have a huge base that is already in the US.
1
@James E. Gibson
The European Union has been paying Turkey about $7bn annually to care for literally millions of refugees fleeing towards Europe away - from the American initiated Syrian civil war.
Remind me, how much has the USA paid to Turkey for this?
1
@nolongeradoc All Europe paid is 3bn Euros so far.
1
After I read the comments I should clarify some things.
- So far Turkish army didn't kill any civilians but kurdish military forces focuses on civilian populated areas in Turkey border so kurdish forces have been killed 9 civilians including 4 children and one them them was just a 9 month old baby.
- kurdish forces are not real allies of the US. US trained them and give weapons to fight Assad for them in Syria. So they were just a tool.
- Turkey is the real ally of US by NATO. US can not send there military and fight against Turkey with kurdish forces. This is impossible. Also Turkey was expecting joint military operation with US on this case they even do recon missions together weeks before this assault in that zone and Turkey got detailed info about the area.
- there are 3,6 million refugees in Turkey and these people can not stay in Turkey forever since there is an economic crisis going on in Turkey.
- about the prisons, Erdogan said we will not free the prisoners, if any country wants their people back we can give them back.( No europian countries wants them back by the way.)
-there is no ethnic cleansing in the zone. This wasn't the goal of this. The fight isn't against Kurdish people its against terorists. YPG is a branch of PKK which is knowned as a terorist organization by EU and US.
If you have any questions I can answer. Thanks for reading and don't hesitate to reply.
14
@Onur
- kurdish forces are not real allies of the US. US trained them and give weapons to fight Assad for them in Syria. So they were just a tool.
nice- just a tool
How can you tell me 50 soldiers have kept Turkey at bay? And by pulling them out, Turkey can now invade? Preposterous! It is more than that.
- Did Tump give Turkey the green light? Why would he do this?
- Is there something going on in the background we are unaware of?
3
The Kurds biggest mistake was in not learning from the past.Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shahanshah (King of Kings) of Iran and staunch US ally double crossed the US and the Kurds in 1975.
Until then, the Shah had carried out American policy to weaken the Iraq regime of Saddam Hussein by arming and supplying the Kurds in northern Iraq to wage war against Iraq. Shah reached agreement with Saddam that benefited Iran concerns regarding the Shatt-al-Arab and suddenly cut off all supplies to Kurds in the winter. Saddam's forces then proceeded to ruthlessly exterminate the Kurds. Many more Kurds died and starved to death than in Syria.
What was the American response to our CIA armed and supported ally? Crickets. No sanctions on the Shah.
My advice to the Kurds is to find a acceptable deal with Assad and the Russians for both sides are opposed to ISIS.
In the intractable conflict that raged in SE Asia back in the day, we sold out many indigenous groups that fought with US forces. Hmong,Bru, Meo, Rhade,Nung composed various Lao and Cambodian forces that were recruited and made various sundry promises by various US personnel ( official and unofficial).
To sum up the following paraphrase of testimony by US ambassador to Laos in Senate hearing is quite revealing.
Senator: Do we have any formal agreement with Vang Pao and his men?
Ambassador: Formal Agreement? No, there is no FORMAL agreement with Vang Pao.
4
Let's review here...Trump says he defeated ISIS but has basically run away and farmed it out to the [extremely competent] Turks to: a) kill our allies; and b) guard ISIS captives. Trump has now agreed to re-deploy forces to defend the people who support ISIS (Saudi Arabia). Trump basically supports ISIS. Also, he wants to be friends with the Taliban, thinks baby Kim is a nice guy and wants to do his very best to please Russia.
Trump hates America.
11
re: Kurds during WW2
By 1942, the Iraq Levies consisted of a Headquarters, a Depot, Specialist Assyrian companies, 40 service companies and the 1st Parachute Company, which consisted of 75% Assyrian and 25% Kurd. The new Iraq Levies disciplinary code was based largely on the Indian Army Act. The Levies had 22 Assyrian companies, 5 Mixed Assyrian/Yizidi companies, 10 Kurdish companies, 4 Gulf Arab companies and 3 Baluchi companies. Eleven Assyrian companies served in World War II-era Palestine and another four served in Cyprus. The Parachute Company was attached to the Royal Marine Commando and were active in both Albania and Greece.
2
As for the few Evangelicals who are standing up NOW and saying Shame on You Trump, nope. Too little too late. You used Trump as a pawn full well KNOWING he lacked empathy and conscience, from his horrendous tweets, to his admission that he assaulted women, to his track record of racism. No. I will never forget what you did for 2 issues only: so you could demonizing women and so you could force your will and man-made beliefs on the LBGTQ citizens of the USA.
9
While Obama was President, Evangelicals brought thousands of refugees from Somalia to Michigan and Minnesota. It is time for them to do the same with these refugees from the Mideast.
4
In 1999, when Serbia acted against rebels in its own territory, the West rightly chastised "ethnic cleansing" and the New York Times' own Thomas Friedman called for bombing Serbian people back to the middle ages, which NATO did by bombing a European capital. Turkey's Edrogan has openly called for a change in the 'demographics' of the border area, can we use "ethnic cleansing" once again as the appropriate descriptor?
4
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/11/trump-deal-erdogan-lethal-consequences-ukraine-syria
Indeed, "There’s a last connection, too. For who benefits from a Ukraine deprived of cash and military equipment? Why, it’s the same person who benefits from a US pullback from Syria: Trump’s old friend, Vladimir Putin."
It is despicable, it is shameful, downright disgusting, what these monstrous types (I prefer not name them, they are too inhumane) inflict on the Kurds and, by extension (ISIS, refugees to destabilize the west,... ), on all Western countries. Shame on them ! The world will not forget their dirty agreements !
1
32 km buffer zone not more.
Turkey try to safe border.
Terörist which weapons using
USA weapons.
For example saudi arabia how many children killed and killing in yemen.
Guess what weopans.
By Usa weapons.
5
Our cowardly president who understands nothing about valor or loyalty ( for the right reasons, not his narcissistic ones ), who ignores advice and cautions from our experienced military and intelligence leaders...... he and his Republican enablers are criminal in their allowing Turkey to murder our Kurdish Allies. When the tables are turned and old Allies abandon us and Americans die, which will happen, the blood will be on the hands of these despicable people. By then, I’m sure that trump will be living in exile in one of his Turkish, Saudi or Russian properties.
2
The continuing wars in the Near East are largely due to overpopulation and a scarcity of water. Parents have many children so populations have grown. There is not enough fresh water for everyone.
Turkey was able to modernize its economy except in its southeastern area where many Kurds live. To help this area develop, Turkey has built hydroelectric dams over the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Syria and Iraq asked that the dams not be built out of fear that they would decrease the amount of water flowing to their countries. Turkish environmentalists asked Erdogan to reduce the size of the projects, but he refused. Apparently, Erdogan sees the dams as a way to play politics. Iraq has oil. Erdogan wanted Turkey to control the water.
Iraq claims that Turkey’s dams have decreased water flow by 80%. Syria says its water has decreased by 40%. The dams have also submerged fields in Turkey's southeast - the area it wanted to modernize. The Turkish government has been accused of not offering the Kurds enough compensation for having their homes and fields destroyed. This has led to support of the PKK.
Even though the Near East is largely arid, parents have many children. Populations have increased exponentially. Turkey’s dams and a 2006 drought kept Syria's many farmers from being able to irrigate their crops. They took their large families to the cities to look for work, where many ended up joining the fight against Assad.
Fresh water is a limited resource.
7
@ann
Years ago, when Turkey first thought of building 19 dams on the Tigris and Euphrates, it was meant to provide electricity and to help the economy in Turkey's southeast where many Kurds live. But before the last of the dams were built, environmentalists were seeing the damage wrought by dams, and great strides had been made in both solar and wind energy. Turkey’s southeast is very sunny and parts of it have strong winds. Kurds asked Erdogan to build solar and wind farms there instead of adding yet another dam. He ignored them. He wanted to be able to control the water flow to neighboring countries.
Erdogan sees himself as a political manipulator over the entire Near Eastern region. He turned a blind eye to foreigners who entered Turkey and crossed it to get into Syria where they could join ISIS. He also let Turks buy oil from ISIS. Thus, Erdogan allowed ISIS to swell its ranks with foreign fighters and with the foreign women who were willing to marry the fighters, and he helped the ISIS economy.
When Erdogan now says he will not let ISIS fighters escape from their Kurdish jails, he is not to be believed. He wants to be in the position where he is in control in the Near Eastern region and perhaps beyond.
@ann
"Iraq claims that Turkey’s dams have decreased water flow by 80%. Syria says its water has decreased by 40%. The dams have also submerged fields in Turkey's southeast - the area it wanted to modernize. The Turkish government has been accused of not offering the Kurds enough compensation for having their homes and fields destroyed. This has led to support of the PKK."
First let's get our facts right. In the 1960s when Turkey planned these dams it asked Iraq to do it as a joint project (like Tennessee Valley Project), ie a joint project administered jointly. Iraq balked. Syria showed no interest-it also had no money. So Turkeystarted on its own without Iraq and Syria. Even if they had joined the project at a later stage they would not have suffered decrease in their water supply. So why blame Turkey?
Second, PKK started getting active in the 70s long before the dams became operational.
Third, a great majority of Kurdish population has moved away from South Western Anatolia to Western and Northern Anatolia and Thrace. They remain peaceful and very hard working citizens and neighbors. They are not PKK supporters. They are not going back to where they came from peace is established.
2
WaPo has just announced that the US will send 2000 troops to Saudi Arabia. And so now what do all those who applauded the move to remove the troops from the northern Syrian border say. They sneer that it was easy for liberals and never Trumpers who had no loved ones serving in the military to cry about the Kurds. What do they have to say now that 2000 more Americans will be going to the Middle East?
Trump not only can’t read, he can’t do arithmetic too well either. Probably why he went bankrupt so many times. Taking 50 troops from the Syrian border, then sending 2000 to Saudi Arabia is not a reduction of troops. But the defense and excuses for this move are probably already out there.
12
The "betrayal of our allies" rhetoric is comical propaganda by special interest groups.
The United Stated should not have provided weapons and financial aid to Kurdish tribal fighters to begin with. That was a betrayal of the U.S. allegiance with Turkey and a blatant violation of the U.S. obligations as a NATO member.
It is time for active leadership and diplomacy to negotiate a deal between the Turks and the Kurds. That would also benefit Israel. My advice to the "you-know-who" lobby is to shut down the silly propaganda machine and demonstrate leadership for a solution to bring peace and stability to the Middle East.
11
@Dulcinea "The United Stated should not have provided weapons and financial aid to Kurdish tribal fighters to begin with."
11,000 Kurds dying to protect American interests in the region is considered preferable to 11,000 Americans dying to protect American interests in the area. Optics for voters.
It's not, by far, the first time.
2
@Dulcinea -- And besides the Kurds didn't help us in Normandy Invasion -- all they did was to assis the U.S. to bring down ISIS and it was well established that they were U.S. allies, no matter if you like it or not.
1
@angel98
Reconsider American interests. If the U.S. did not take a hostile position against Assad, we would not have had an ISIS problem to deal with. The U.S. was unsuccessful in bringing Assad down. Thousands of Syrians including Kurds were killed, and the Turks ended up with 3.6 million refugees. Somehow, whomever partners with the U.S. ends up being a loser. That is not a strong message to send to the world.
1
The article captures the complexity of the situation very well. While fighting the Islamic State, YPG occupied Arab-majority areas, and a sizeable Kurdish population moved in and took over the homes left by Syrian Arabs who had fled to Turkey. Now those Kurdish civilians are largely leaving these homes for fear of reprisal. Unfortunately, some Kurds who has lived in those Arab-majority regions as minorities for centuries are leaving these areas as well.
Despite the fact that Trump made a rush decision here, the real culprit, the turning point which lighted the fuse is Obama’s decision to ally with YPG in the first place, with the full-knowledge that YPG in Syria has a strong relationship with the terrorist organization PKK in Turkey. Syria is probably one of the biggest foreign policy mistake Obama made along with Libya. His inaction when his redline of attacks on civilians was crossed by the Syrian government, and then his decision to ally the US with YPG brought the US to the current situation, which Trump made it worse.
9
@ZTS No other significant fighting force was able to take the fight to ISIS than the YPG and the PKK. After the Seige of Kobani, they teamed up with Iraqi Peshmerga and began to repel ISIS back to their strongholds eventually disbanding them. The US stepped up their aid and support of the Kurdish forces in 2014 and the defeat of ISIS was well underway when Trump took office. The other fighting groups taking up arms against the Assad regime had competing agendas and were not nearly as cohesive as the Kurdish forces who proved to be an excellent fighting force. While you may quibble with what Obama achieved in the fight against ISIS, there were few better options at the time.
2
@Marlon S. yes sure, except for Turks that took control of many isis held towns in the west of Syria. Here is the thing, you cannot use your help with fight against isis as bargaining chip to steal Syrian refugees' land. That just won't fly morally, or realistically. Eventually those 5.7MM registered Syrian refugees will come back to their homes.
1
@ZTS I am just impressed with your understanding of this complex situation my friend. The lack of complete picture from press is pretty frustrating. This whole conversations around "betraying an ally" is ironic if you are informed enough to know that US armed YPG which is just the rebranded version of PKK that Turkey and US consider a terrorist organization. Turkey is one of the few countries in the region that has somewhat functioning democracy and rule of law, is also part of NATO, so I would be more concerned about upsetting her than PKK/YPG.
6
The Great betrayal of the century
Lucian Michael
By abandoning the Kurds the United States has made a irreparable damage to its foreign policy, that would shape the future US’s relations with its allies and foes together. After a five years fight to defeat the Islamic State, the Kurds sacrificed a huge number of its men and women, now left helpless on the onslaught of the Turkish military and its allied militia-the Syrian national front.
The US has shown to the world that it will go after some economic benefit, by abandoning its loyal allies, means there is no loyalty when it comes to business.
Never in the recent world history, a responsible power has abandoned its loyal friend, for economic gains. China protected North Korea, Russia stood by the side of Assad, and Maduro even when there were military threat from Europe and the United States.
Do the Americans think they will have any reliable military partner anywhere in the world? Indians knew about this long before.
Trump and his republicans are going to sanction Turkey, so what, its like stabbing someone and taking to hospital. The world is watching starting from Africa, Asia, Europe, America, it’s a lost trust over America and its leadership.
About me:
I am Lucian Michael, Indian national, now based at Maldives, freelancer, and international analyst.
Phone:+919830246
3
Kurdish blood is on Trump's hands and those who support and enable them.
10
Evangelical Leaders, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham and every Republican who has enabled Trump have blood on their hands and are directly responsible for this tragedy.
10
I would like to point out that there may have been Kurds among the Free French on the beaches of Normandy. Anyone care to check?
8
Trump’s abandonment of the Kurds to their fate under the Turks, is bad news for Israel. Israel didn’t send any troops to fight with us at Normandy either.
5
@ldc And did the Saudi's?
@ldc Israel didn't exist in 1944.
1
Let's be honest, if President Obama had withdrawn from this war, the same critics would be singing his praises, he would get another nobel peace prize, MSNBC and CNN would release doves into the sky with tears in their little eyes.
6
Amazing how with each additional failure on Trump’s part someone tries to bring up Obama. Yet, Obama’s successes , despite outrageous GOP attacks and lies, are not acknowledged. Hold Trump accountable for his failures. The survival of our Democracy is at stake.
1
Our Armed Forces were betrayed, as were our Kurdish partners, for what? A Turkish offensive that should have taken place years ago when the ISIS black flag flew over these towns, but no, the Turks wait until someone else does the dirty work, then goes in and starts systematically killing and displacing the very people who won that hard war, a war the Turks, by the way, profited very handsomely from, what with all the ISIS oil that flowed through Turkey, along with thousands of ISIS troops going back and forth, from Syria through Turkey, to Europe, to kill and kill again. What a disgrace.
9
@Sombrero yes when your honorable PKK/YPG friends were taking over towns that are abandoned by Syrian refugees, Turkey was busy taking care of 3,600,000 registered Syrian refugees. By far, Turkey is the largest recipient of Syrian refugees. YPG/PKK is only concerned about starting their own state in someone else's land. Now these people are coming back home, so it's time for thieves to get their dirty hand off of someone else's property and move on. If they left what is not theirs, no one would get hurt anyways.
3
@Sombrero
Turks wanted to fight ISIS. However, Kurds were against Turkish involvement. Washington chose Kurds over Turkey.
2
Perhaps you could interview former service people who have served with the Kurds and illuminate how deeply we are in their debt.
How many have died, been wounded.
It could of been Americans in those graves, not that Trump would gave a fig either way.
You could interview line service people and ask how this might impact their survival rates in coming hostile actions.
Find a positive future outcome by having abandoned these brothers in arms.
I fully expect the Trump administration to prosecute persons who have served with the Kurdish forces and Peshmerga
10
The Turkish forces and their allies were able to take the Kurdish Canton of Afrin, without too much difficulty. Clearly, Erdogan has drawn the inference that attacking Rojava will yield similar successes, and be neither costly in blood or in treasure. Clearly, the Turkish Armed Forces can go in, and take a swath of territory. But holding it and occupying such a large abound of Kurdish territory be is going to be a much more difficult undertaking. None of the major Stakeholders in Syria want Turkey to achieve the full scope of its operation: The United States (well, aside from Donald Trump), want Turkey to leave the Kurds alone. The Assad regime wants to keep its nominal territorial integrity intact, and does not want to submit to more humiliations from Turkey, a historical Nemesis. Finally, Russia wants cordial relations with Turkey, but Putin is happy to clip Erdogan's wings, especially as Turkey risks encroaching on Russia's "Sphere of Influence", by further fragmenting the territory of Syria, its client state. In such a scenario, there are many actors who might find it both expedient and politic to furnish the Kurdish forces with a limited amount of sophisticated weapons....and see what kind of price Erdogan is willing to pay (in terms of downed warplanes and destroyed armor). Ironically, this Turkish incursion may achieve some short-term tactical gains, but at the cost of weakening Turkey's strategic position, diminishing its regional influence, etc.
7
Id like to thank Times for this well written factual piece that underlines the basic facts that most seem to overlook ;
- The 2 towns surrounded are "Kurdish-held" not Kurdish owned.
These were Arab dominated and or mixed towns that the Kurds took over and pushed locals out to create a zone for themselves.
Fighting ISIS was the best excuse not to forget that they backstabbed the original rebel uprising against Assad in doing so.
- YPG Kurds are lobbing mortars into city centers not military targets, hence more civilian deaths then troops. Sadly half of them are Syrian refugees.
- While some of the 3.6million refugees come from elsewhere considerable amounts (600-800k) are from the regions currently held by Kurds. Interestingly among these are actual civilian Kurds who have sheltered in Turkey.
- While Turkey has welcomed the largest refugee count in the world since WW2 it is not all roses as it still has considerable pressure on its media and individual reporting/ideas that go against the grain.
One funny side note is that Fox TV in Turkey unlike its cousin in the US is the most liberal one...
17
Guess What?
The US and western interests have been served by the constant emphasis on separatism and discord. The Kurds who advocated for an independent state in IRAQ now find themselves at risk of losing the only Autonomous Kurdish region recognized in the Middle East. We coaxed them into fighting and now they are in danger of being homeless once again.
The western and US emphasis should be on PEACE.
http://www.atour.com/education/20030919a.html
Assyrian Christians in the Middle East are justifiably convinced that their survival as a community in their ancestral homeland depends on the creation of an Assyrian Region under the constitution of the Republic of Iraq. It is their intention that the Assyrian Region should be governed and administered by Assyrian Christians, not Kurds, and secured by Assyrian Defense Forces, not the Kurdish Army.”
4
If we get the government we deserve we are truly despicable and deserve the blowback that will surely one day arrive.
7
Turkey let ISIS use safe-houses in Turkey and kept border crossings open so ISIS could be supplied from Turkey and so blackmarket oil could move from Syria thru Turkey. Turkey's FSA units in Afrin are openly Salafist. In sum, Turkish guards over ISIS prison camps would result in mass ISIS "escapes."
18
@Jo-Anne Turkey won't let them escape, especially erdogan, because not so long ago isis called erdogan infidel and wanted to capture him also. Here's the link.
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/ISIS-Threat/WATCH-ISIS-calls-Erdogan-traitor-urges-followers-to-conquer-Istanbul-412460
2
Trump sides with ISIS rather than our Kurdish allies.
20
The slaughter, is continuing.
Erdogan is going to massacre every single Kurdish man, woman, and child.
Trump gave Erdogan the Green Light, and allowed him to begin his Crimes Against Humanity.
It is Genocide.
It is Ethnic Cleansing.
It is simply, Murder.
Trump "claims" that he's doing this because he is fulfilling a campaign promise, but that is just another Trump Lie.
Those crowd chants at his rallies, were only intended to keep the people entertained.
They were never political promises.
No, the real reason Trump has betrayed the Kurds, is because he has substantial property in Turkey, and he wants to have more.
Whatever happens to the Kurds is of no concern to Trump whatsoever, just so long as he can continue to line his own pockets.
The world will not forget Trump's betrayal of the Kurds.
If America is ever in a crisis and needs allies to come to our side, no one will bother to show up.
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@John Doe
Speak on it. right now Trump and his military enablers who did not stand up and oppose this insanity all have blood on there hands.
When we are attacked and we will be, we will look around and there will be no one standing with us. This traitor needs to be removed from office s quickly as possible. We have to save ourselves from this chronic liar and the GOP. For everyone who said we democrats needed new leadership , well Nancy is our savior at this moment in time to stop this Russian loving president. None of the GOP would stand up, not the military not anyone, people are dying and unlike the movies they are going to stay dead
We can't get into who did what when, where, what year etc. Right now we are living a scenario that didnt need to happen. We could of had a plan but that would mean thinking and this administration doesnt do that. We put kids in cages, tax cuts for the rich, we attempt do away with health care and so many white GOP men listen to a coward, a draft dodger and think they are listening to a king. He is a king, king of hate.
@John Doe
So true and so sad....
@Kati
Sad? Yes. But I don't think that the word "sad", truly encompasses the scope of these Crimes Against Humanity.
This is a monstrous abomination, on a scale that has not been seen in decades.
The wholesale slaughter of tens of thousands of human beings by a brutal dictator, has occurred in history before.
But it has never before had the blessing and encouragement, of the President of the United States of America.
1
where ever Trump's perfidious and diabolical schemes appear—chaos and turmoil breaks out.
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Just think of it, if the Crusades had been successful, that whole region would be Catholic today.
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@CJ
Some Kurds are Christians and there are/were always plenty of Christians in the area, as well as a number of other religions....
The Crusades tragically were successful in wrecking havoc.
Read history: the first place the Crusaders looted and murdered inhabitants were Christians in Christian areas.
The eight Crusade was aimed at what is now Southern France which was a Cathar area where women were equal to men. The French kind got the pope to declare a crusade against them as a "return favor" for something (I cant remember but hey you can look it up!). The ""Crusaders"" carried out mass burning....
The Crusades happened way way before the Reformation. The Catholic Church didnt exist as a distinct entity. Actually there was a time when there were 2 popes in different locations and in conflict......
History is so much more interesting than the fiction you are inventing.
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-aramco-attacks-exclusive/u-s-to-deploy-large-number-of-forces-to-saudi-arabia-idUSKBN1WQ21Z
So Trump pulls out AMERICAN troops from Syria protecting our ALLY the Kurds because Trump says we are spending too much money and need to get out of the "mess" of the Middle East. BUT HE SENDS AMERICAN TROOPS to Saudi Arabia to help against IRAN. Makes senses? Only to one person. TRUMP.
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@Dick Diamond
the worst is that folks in the rest of the world do not think of this as Trump's doing. They think of the US being a treacherous ally that allows what is going to be, at best, ethnic cleansing and, at worst, genocide of its ally that conveniently defeated ISIS for the US at the cost of thousands of Kurdish soldiers casualties but only 6 or so US ones (of course each are mourned individually and their family's pain as is beyond
measure each time)
Also this follows the breaking of the treaty with Iran that Iran was following (lots of outside inspectors to prove it) and that took 3 years of negotiation including our European allies... (when Trump broke the treaty, I've read --dont remember where-- that the Iranian Right wing immediately claimed "we told you so". The chief Iranian negotiator lost his job (hopefully he's not in prison but.....)
Again we know it's Trump and we sure hope to defeat him in next elections but people abroad think of his evil deeds (including separating children and babies from their parents) as being done by the US.... Trump is tainting all of us and, even worse, I'm afraid he has a plan to discard voting and somehow become dictator which he seems to believe he already is..... so frightening.....
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@Kati
Obama allied US with YPD/PKK knowing fully well that they were terrorists. Turkey did not hide its discomfort and disapproval with this "alliance". So it is OK that PKK kills 30-40,000 Turkish citizens from many ethnic backgrounds and they become beloved allies of the US. So I assume that you think It is OK that weapons provided to YPD to fight ISIS also ends up in the hands of PKK to kill Turkish citizens. Again is it your opinion that Turks are expandable but not Kurds.
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@Dick Diamond The presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia is the reason why Osama bin Laden attacked the World Trade Center Twin Towers in NY City on 9/11/2001. So we've come full circle, and the whole debacle of the last 18 years will probably repeat itself because of the bumbling fool who lives in the White House.
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Fall of Saigon, 2019
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As our dear leader has said before, he’s smarter than any general he’s ever met.
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I can laud Trump's desire to leave foreign conflicts, but Trump being Trump, he is doing so in a rash and reckless manner that may spur further conflict by destabilizing the region, hurt our allies and reputation, and impair our ability to deal with issues in the future--not to mention the death and humanitarian nightmare left in the immediate wake of his policies.
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In 2016 Trump said: "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn't lose any voters, okay?" The audience laughed. "It's, like, incredible."
Now, he's shot America's military and Special Forces in the back. Still support him? Still laughing? Incredible.
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@Better4All ,,, Trump tries repeatedly to take away the health care of millions of Americans. He has traumatized thousands of children at the border, some of whom have died. He is encouraging the increased poisoning of our air and water. He is leaving the Kurds to slaughter and might even let ISIS on the loose again, to kill Westerners. Shoot somebody on 5th avenue? That’s small potatoes!
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Look around, someone will be paying for betraying our allies and it’s not Trump. It’s going to be you!
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At all his campaign rallies, Trump will be explains his treachery to the Kurds, right?
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This chaos rests at the feet of Donald Trump as crimes against humanity. Trump gave the green light for Turkey to kill innocent Kurds - people who have historically supported the United States - in an attempt to divert attention from his own impeachment inquiry. Despicable on every level! And an absolute outrage!
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If there were an anti-peace prize, Trump would win it hands down.
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This is how the USA creates refugees.
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The BBC news had a report last night on a 5 year old Kurdish girl who had her leg blown off, and whose 12 year old brother was killed in the same attack. I don't know how Trump can sleep at night, other than the Kurds are of no material value to him !! Shame on him !! For sure this is not the person that should be running this country !!
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@Tim dear Tim, I have searched through internet about this 5 year old kurdish girl who her leg blown off, but I couldn't find any news about it. By the way I am checking global news and I haven't seen any civilians that are killed by Turkish soldiers. At the moment only turkish civilians have been killed by the YPG. It is because they were bombing turkish towns which had civilian population. If you find any article I would gladly read it if you put the link. Also everyone forgets that Turkey is the ally of the US. We are a member in NATO. Also YPG is a terrorist organisation(those so called kurdish militants). PKK is a known terorist organisation that US and EU excepts and this YPG is one of its branches. America just used a terorist organisation to defeat another terorist organization in the middle east. It is that simple. It was just a strategy. Also don't forget almost 4 million syrian refugees are in Turkey right now and these people wants and also needs to go back home to their country.
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@Onur Thank you for sharing. Unfortunately most American neocons and liberals will not listen to the innocent Turkish, Syrian, or Kurdish civilians who have been brutalized by PKK and YPG or who have seen their territories de-stabilized by Obama funding and arming Islamist rebels which then caused the Kurds to have to take up arms against them. Just as the US never sent troops to the ground to fight with Israelis, we should not do so for the Kurds to try to take territory from Syria, Turkey, or Iraq. Seems many don't care about the Syrian civilians who were forcibly expelled from Kurdish held territories and are living as refugees in Turkey now.
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@Onur
Those civilians refugees are in Turkey right now because they fled ISIS which the Kurds managed to defeat at the cost of thousands of casualties of their own. They fled from a number of other areas besides Syria and besides the territory the Kurds won back from ISIS.
You are trying to justify the ethnic cleansing and perhaps even the genocide that might be coming....
It's not that Turkey and its people are evil, on the contrary, but you now have a dictator and, in history, just about all dictators have proven to be evil. As they say, " power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"...
Ergodan and Trump (the later wishing to be a total dictator while he is managing to be just the beginning of being one, a beginning that is pretty awful already) are the evil ones and they are tainting their compatriots.
Onur, have you not noticed that Trump is doing his best/worst to disband NATO which he is maligning just about every day?
Wake up!
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The United States will pay for Trump's "great and unmatched wisdom." Tragically, the Kurds are paying now.
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Trump says he doubts that Americans want him to send back troops. Instead he blathers about sanctions. I am an American. I want the Kurds protected. They fought and died for me. Can Trump ever acknowledge a mistake? It turns out that the brilliant Mike Pompeo agrees with mass murder by Turkey. What is it with this catering to Turkey?
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@Emory
It's pretty simple. He let Erdogan have his way with the Kurds to send a message to Zelensky. Keep quiet or Ukraine is next.
The Kurds don't frequent Trump Tower in Istanbul. He doesn't need them.
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@Les
I'm not sure. Trump has his name on two Trump towers in Ankara and quite a number of business interests in Turkey.... (he doesnt own the towers just his name he was paid for them to use)
Trump didn't need to let the Kurds be massacred... He has already sent a message to Ukraine. I dont believe that he finally let the money allocated by Congress to Ukraine to buy weapons (from US corporations, that's how much of foreign aid works). Putin already took a portion of the Ukraine and he is aiming at the rest. He wants to make Russia "great again" as it was during the Soviet Union time. Incidentally he has began the process of rehabilitating his former boss Stalin.
If you actually listened to the conversation between Trump and Zelinsky that ended with "make peace with Trump" and the rough transcript of the phone conversation in which he asked Zelensky for a "favor" and since everyone knows that Trump worships Putin, his statement telling Zelensky to make peace with Putin is the equivalent of a mafia don telling the victim "make peace with our hit man"
Please read some history or at least look up Wikipedia....
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I think of Trump's claim that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and his fans would still support him. Well, he hasn't pulled the trigger but he has granted permission for someone else to pull the trigger.
To all of his fans, what's the difference?
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So far Times' reporters cover this atrocity only from the Turkish side. As a consequence all I get to read in the Times are the lies of Turkish government officials and those sympathetic to the Turks. Are there no Times' reporters who can cover the Kurdish side of this atrocity? How about interviews with Kurds and Arabs displaced in Syria by the invasion? This reminds me of American Main Stream Media coverage of the Gulf and Iraq Wars in which no coverage was permitted by the Pentagon or done by the MSM of the impacts of those invasions by US forces on the Iraqis. I can understand that limited coverage since we were the ones at war and the MSM did not want to inadvertently gin up sympathy for our enemy by showing the results of "shock and awe". But we are now merely a neutral third party here after we shamefully abandoned our former Kurdish allies. I just hope we don't see a Times' reporter embedded with Turkish forces!
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@Jamie Nichols
We have abandoned the Kurds twice, once after the Iraqi war and now.
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@Jamie Nichols dear jamie, actually so far global media is against Turkey. All of the pictures of civilians killed in the area are Turkish citizens. If you read in details and check the locations of the pictures the civilians that are bombed are in Turkey. This means YPG(kurdish forces) bomb civilian turkish cities. So far 9 civilian killed by those kurdish forces and 4 of them are child also 1 of them is a 9 month old baby. You are forgetting that Turkey has 3,6 million Syrian refugees and these people want to go back home. So Turkey is trying to solve this problem at the moment. There is an economic crisis in Turkey at the moment and they can not care 3,6 million refugees for the europe forever.
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Turkish army military courts will hang all those ISIS terrorists on the rope. Kurdish SDF was holding those terrorists as prisoners as a chess piece so that they keep getting paid by USA. But Turkish Army doesn't take prisoners. ISIS is done for sure! That will help sway the American opinion.. Remember USA and Turkey are bound to each other by NATO Treaty. I doubt USA can apply any meaningful sanctions against Turkey while Iran is hitting the oil fields in Saudi Arabia. Which one is more important for American public: Gas Price or the Kurds????
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@Carlos Imagine these people who are so ignorant that they don't understand that the only party we are treaty obligated to support is Turkey. PKK and YPG Kurdish terrorists are hiding in territory in Syria (from which they displaced many Sunni and Kurdish civilians now living as refugees in Turkey) and attacking Turkey. We have zero obligation to help them in their separatist cause fighting a NATO ally. I'd say it's unbelievable, but it isn't. First Iraq, then Obama sides with Islamist terrorist "rebels" identical to Isis.. now we're in a mess that we should extricate ourselves from immediately. Not a single US soldier should die fighting for a Kurdish state that will never come and would further sink that region into utter chaos.
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@Carlos
Read a report where the USA is taking the most serious ISIS members, a couple of dozen last reported. What the heck are we going to do with them? With their lawyers they will eventually be out so they can continue their campaign of terror. `
And who was attacking Turkey? Their problem is the within their own country. No other country attacked them. Do we now go and help France with the "yellow vest" protesters or other serious protest anyplace in Europe because we are part of NATO?
The problem stems from France and England dividing up the middle east with the Arab leaders years ago and not giving the Kurds their own homeland. They want autonomy.
And would Americans' opinion be changed when they start hanging people because that would include the Kurds too. And wasn't Turkey a bit "heavy handed" when they took care of Armenia. They did a lot more than hanging there.
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@Vail
"And would Americans' opinion be changed when they start hanging people because that would include the Kurds too. And wasn't Turkey a bit "heavy handed" when they took care of Armenia. They did a lot more than hanging there." Wake up that was over 100 years ago. And US was innocent in its own lands then eh? Jim Crow didn't exist, Indians were an independent lot? Should I continue...?
The United States has never had a problem with deserting their non-european allies or the "collateral" damage of civilians being killed or their infrastructure being bombed.
Madline Albright when asked by Lesly Stahl if 1/2 million children in Iraq killed on her watch due to sanctions was worth said
"It was a hard choice, but yes it was"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iFYaeoE3n4 -- 20 seconds into the video.
So spare me the breast beating and shock at this action. The US has never been an ally who is concerned about the collateral damage -- ask Iran (1953), Guatemala (1953 & 1993)), Chile (1973), El Salvador (1979), Honduras (2009), Libya (2010) to name just a few. Some countries we managed to overthrow their civilian government two or three times.
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The headliner news every single day should be that the GOP supports Trump's sudden unilateral decision to "serve up" our Kurdish allies for slaughter to this murdering Turkish dictator Erdogan.
Tens of thousands of our Kurdish allies..innocent men, women and children... are fleeing their homes and trapped with absolutely nowhere to go. And McConnell and his GOP Congress do nothing.
Backstabbing Trump gave the green light to Turkey's Erdogan to slaughter the very people who. for five long years, fought tirelessly with our U.S. troops to help defeat our enemy, ISIS. Yet McConnell and his GOP Congress do nothing.
Trump's sudden outright betrayal of our battlefield allies must surely be what finally turn the American people against this treacherous cretin who is pretends to be "Leader of the Free World". Because McConnell and his GOP Congress are doing absolutely nothing.
What say McConnell and his GOPers?
"Well, I don't like what the President is doing, but I still support him." So Mitch McConnell and his GOP will do nothing.
November 2020 cannot come soon enough for the entire rest of the world...because America will do something.
2020. Mitch McConnell and his do-nothing spineless GOPers will rue the day they ever aligned themselves with this truly evil man they call their president.
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@JM May it be so
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Who is the real beneficiary of these deplorable actions by Trump? Turkey is an ally, yes, but Erdogan has been moving in his own fundamental and authoritarian manner to exert control and now his ally is the foolish Trump. The Kurds who have fought beside the US since Korean days were left in the lurch. No diplomacy, no understanding of the turmoil in this area of the world continues to rule our missteps in the region. Is Assad our ally? Tents of refugees everywhere. Who cares?
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@Katalina Please note that it was the Turks, not the Kurds who fought beside in Korea.
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@Voice
Turkey was part of the United Nations force that fought in Korea, not helping the USA. It was multi national force.
Did they help at Normandy too?
Thousands of people are fleeing Central America because they supposedly are being persecuted in their own countries. But it turns out that most are really seeking better paying jobs in the US. By contrast, the Kurds and ISIS families are really in fear for their homes and lives. Democrats have supported hundreds of thousands of persons who enter the US illegally and obstructed their arrest by ICE in Sanctuary cities and states. It is time for Democrats, especially those running for President, to support the relocation of the Kurds and the ISIS families to the US. California is a Sanctuary State, it has a similar climate to Syria, a huge budget surplus, and is a natural place to move these families to. Democrats need to announce their support for the relocation of these refugees.
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So you’re reading this devastatingly emotional article which contains images of orphaned children, and you default to minimizing another tragic occurrence involving children, and taking a jab at your rival political ideology..
thanks for serving as the barometer of the lack of empathy this country has succumbed to. would our grandparents who sacrificed so much in WWII be proud of what’s become of this nation? minimizing world tragedy as a means to insult something as trivial in the face of death and tragedy as a political preference?
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@Richard Wright Are you sure the Kurds want to be relocated? Wouldn't they rather stay in their homes, in their cities, with the support of their allies in the war against ISIS? I absolutely support Western countries taking responsibility for detaining their citizens who joined ISIS. However the idea that ISIS would be more desirable than central americans fleeing violence, is ludicrous. I think you're trying to make an anti-immigration point, but it doesn't sound very smart.
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@Richard Wright
I suspect there will be a disconnect between their money and their mouths on this issue. It's one thing to advocate for millions of poor, uneducated, unskilled Hispanics of which we have millions already and who will likely vote democratic than to invite in real refugees who may not be so docile.
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This decision by President Trump will test American ideals in a very decisive fashion. Despite the long history of self-serving foreign policy desicions (many times, self-serving only for the particular economic interests of the oil industry or the military industrial complex), all administrations have had an absolute need to adorn its military and foreign policy desicions with a rightious justifications (many times tremendously ellaborate and adorned), this time, we just pulled out in line with the President's isolationist rhetoric from his 2016 campaign. Nothing else?
Can American exceptionalism as a respected moral player in the world be restored? My guess, that will depend on the people, we should not forget that despite the particular nature of the US electoral system, elected politicians tend to be a reflection of the people they represent.
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@Antonio "...despite the particular nature of the US electoral system, elected politicians tend to be a reflection of the people they represent."
Having lived in Spain under Franco, I feel that the US, with "help" from abroad, is becoming closer to a dictatorship than a democracy. But yes, perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 of our citizens do seem to support the guy with self-proclaimed "great and unmatched wisdom." (Words of a dictator, whatever nation we speak of.)
The average life span in Spain is significantly longer than that in the US. That in itself shows where the US is going.
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@Antonio How can anyone speak of "American Exceptionalism" when Donald Trump id POTUS?
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@Antonio
What morals and ideals? No one sees the United States as a moral player, and why would they?
1
I'm heartbroken for the people in the region. I've read a lot about the Kurdish fight against ISIS, especially the Women's Defence Units (YPJ). I'm so angry that this has been allowed to happen. There are now thousands more refugees, access to hospitals and clean water is gone, and the thousands of ISIS fighters are likely to escape. The number of dead civilians, directly from fighting, or indirectly from disease, is going to skyrocket before any kind of sanction stops Turkey or the pro-turkish militia.
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Trump always makes the wrong decision, this time with shocking consequences.
Because Trump wanted a political "talking point" for the upcoming elections, he withdrew a small number of U.S. troops that were deterring Turkey from their pre-announced intent to slaughter the Kurds in Syria, our allies in the fight against ISIS.
With this move, ISIS fighters be able to reconstitute their "caliphate," which has taken years, money and lives for the U.S. to contain with the assistance of the Kurds. And now the Kurds will become America's enemy as well. And who could blame them?
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Another Trump "policy" that takes a tenuous but stable situation and turns it into a full-blown disaster. Children in cages on the border, and what is soon to be a horrific ethnic cleansing campaign against America's loyal allies, not to mention the destruction of any effort to mitigate climate change: the entire world has to bear the costs of this deranged administration who seem intent only on pleasing the Russians. It has gone from farce into deepest tragedy.
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@Susan — We appear to have collected too many allies in the region, each with their own agenda.
Regarding “Climate Change” I think people would appreciate it if the left would come up with a ppm* CO2 number. Is it 200, 300 or 400 ppm we should strive for? Currently we have appropriately 411ppm.
*parts per million
@Susan
A stable situation? You've got to be kidding me.
@William Perrigo So, you think "people' (the "left" aren't "people"?) would like it if the millions of folks who you consider "the left" would provide a specific number for CO2 percentage in the atmosphere? Well, they'll just get right on that.
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This is how Trump treats the heroic efforts of the Kurds to defeat ISIS. He claims victory and stabbed them in the back.
So tired of winning.
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@John common US history - after the Afghan mujahideen evicted the USSR, with US weapons, the US bailed. Result: taliban rose to bring law and order to the country. Al Qaeda was similarly succeeded by ISIS. The US has been losing moral ground for a few decades. Nothing new here.
1
The photo of the men carrying the infant coffin should be enough evidence of trump's bloody hands in this atrocity.
Wash off the blood, mr. trump and republicans.
If you can.
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The US is in Syria illegally against their wishes. Around 2013 the second largest CIA operation in history called Timber Sycamore trained Sunni “rebels” and supplied weapons to fight against Assad. It was ended in 2017 at a cost of $1 billion. ISIS was created from the Iraq war when the army was disbanded comprising of Sunni muslims-they needed a job and soon many joined ISIS
In Syria the CIA gave weapons to the Kurds in the north to fight Assad and control the oil fields located there. The Kurds enemies of ISIS also fought ISIS that came into this area. Assad, Iran and Russia were responsible for winning the fight back against ISIS and Al Qaeda, who would have controlled Syria turning it into a Wahhabi terrorist state. The Saudis also fund ISIS and Al Qaeda, while the Turks allowed a highway of jihadis and weapons into Syria.
The US does not have a right to say that the Kurds can set up their own state in Northern Syria - since Syria is a sovereign state. Currently the US is preventing Assad from controlling its northern border. The best deal that the Kurds can hope for is to make a deal with Assad, so they can live in an area of Syria below the northern border. They found themselves on the losing side trying to overthrow Assad - they would have found themselves with their hands full if they succeeded and ISIS/ Al Qaeda were to be in control.
The US needs to get out of the Middle East - no more wars for oil.
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@steve
The US needs to get out of the Middle East - no more wars for oil. Or perhaps you would be ok with another country deciding that the Kurds should be resettled and take over the northern US. Did I mention some of the Kurds are considered terrorists by the US?
Turkey should not be allowed to invade Syria. The US is preventing the Assad government from protecting their northern border. The US created this mess in Syria.
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@steve
The largest CIA operation was in Afghanistan training what would become Al Qaeda to fight the Soviets.
7
@steve
The US needs to continue its role in genocide prevention, whether it be Bosnia, Rwanda, or Syria. Let the world know that where there is pure evil to be prevented, we will prevent it. Enough of this selfish nationalism.
1
Trump greenlighted a slaughter of our allies for what? To appease an authoritarian or for personal gain. Erdogan played Trump mightily. Those still propping up Trump are the most shameful bunch DC has ever seen. This is an unparalleled disgrace.
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@Suzanne Moniz ~
But see, now he can place sanctions and make threats and claim he is a great peacekeeper.
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@Suzanne Moniz He has financial interests in Turkey, and he doesn’t have any Trump Tower in the Kurdish area of Syria. Also, and probably even more significantly, Putin is Assad’s ally and they both want the Kurds crushed. That’s for what.
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@Suzanne Moniz You do know that US and Turkey are actually the real allies by NATO right? You weren't real allies with those kurdish forces. US just trained and gave weapons to them so they could fight ISIS for them. Thousands of them died to fight ISIS, this number could be US soldiers but it isn't because US just used them, they are not your real allies. It is simple strategy. Every country knows that US have always given military equipment to some fighters somewhere. Otherwise how could a man in a mountain village can find a RPG or night vision googles? Some people need to do the dirty work for some other people.
6