I left California right when they got rid of their governor for being the power company's boy. Apparently California is owned outright by the power company and those in power have taken way too many bribes for way too long.
@joe Hall Good comment. I want to add that it wouldn't hurt California officials to stand in front of a mirror and do a chant: "Gray Davis..." It might help them understand the coming backlash.
Earthquakes, wild fires, droughts, floods, crazy expensive and now power outages. Why does any still live in California?
6
I note the winds every day here in Fairfax CA where it has been an extremely windy summer. It has been notably calm for the past 2 days -less windy than it has been for many weeks. Yet PG&E has chosen this period to cut power?
4
There are too many people from outside of California (and the PG&E monopoly we live under) posting opinions here. And Imsee far too many people who have never experienced a wildfire firsthand standing top their soap boxes, preaching.
I have had to run from wildfire, and I have been dealing with PG&E power line management on my property for decades. I can tell you from first-hand experience that what PG&E did today was not for the benefit of the public. They are a mendacious organization.
5
@Passion for Peaches: Lots of us with current addresses elsewhere may have lived in California at one time. I spent my thirties in Sonoma County, and the house where I used to live was evacuated during the October 2017 wildfire outbreak. I never in a million years would have imagined the breadth of destruction those wildfires caused, and I look back with shame that I did not recognize the danger and take precautions. We were very, very lucky.
2
It will be interesting to see the economic impact after power is restored. I canceled a trip to the Bay Area today after my 85 year old friend informed me I may have trouble getting back home. My first clue something was amiss was when I tried to book a room for tonight and the price was $350.00 for one person in Fremont. I’m guessing now that hotels were either filling up midweek for locals hoping to get into a place with a generator. I was also hearing that shelves were empty in local stores . It’s unfortunate that there wasn’t more of a notice , especially for the elderly like my friend who is wondering how to keep her meds. refrigerated and if she’ll have water to drink. I truly feel for my California neighbors and hope this situation will not turn out to be deadly for anyone.
4
PG&E needs to be taken into receivership by the state and management brought in from utilities such as those in southern California who have maintained their equipment and never had things approach much less reach this point. As we learned when PG&E's gas line exploded in San Bruno, the management culture at PG&E is toxic. You cannot expect it to change; they are, quite simply, a failed company.
5
@Hal Bogner - don't forget erin brockovich and the sleepy little superfund town of hinkley.
i think running an infrastructure that large, that exposed to the elements, that costly to service, that expensive to bill and collect for, the sunk costs and massive depreciation and payroll, means that you develop a "mission critical" mentality. these guys are all engineers, after all. they just hope the chewing gum keeps the wings on.
i agree with you, though. separate from all i've said are the decisions made with utter impudence. PG&E encouraged local businesses to put up "Thank You PG&E" posters within two weeks after the big fire came through north Santa Rosa. of course, the thanks were intended for all the *great* things PG&E was doing to help, or fix it, or something vague and markety sounding. but when i first saw the sign i was utterly incredulous. this sign, by the way, was in the window of a restaurant owned by a local chef whose house was among the ones completely destroyed.
so there's really three schools of thought about the universe about why bad things happen: either there are evil ones among us -- or we're suckers every time and some take advantage of that -- or it's just a cruel world.
i go with cruel world every time, because it requires no further thinking. with the other two, your skin is crawling trying to figure out who's to blame or who to throw in jail. i go with cruel world. it's the only thing that explains how the conduct of PG&E goes unpunished.
3
PG&E equipment isn't the only thing that can spark a major fire. So now we have tens of thousands of people using candles and generators and in the event of a fire, with the power put for many days, they may not even have a charged phone to call 911. Capitalism plus climate change is a deadly combo.
11
@R. Volpe capitalism is part of a deadly combo???
How absurd.
3
@J V yes it is. Money that should be spent on vegetation mgmt, equipment repairs and upgrades, etc., instead went to bonuses for the few at the top and for share price. Unfettered capitalism is destroying our country from utilities to health care, transportation, energy, etc.
5
San Jose: Weather report from my back yard. Temp 70F. 40% humidity. 2-4 mph gusts. I sure hope this isn’t enough to warrant a power outage...
3
As of 6:55 this evening there has been very little wind. Ended up working with a generator all day long. Not too happy with pg&e.
5
@William Thomas, Same thing here. We still have power, though. Supposed to lose it at 8pm. Generator ready to go, but what is PG&E thinking?
2
@Passion for Peaches
I just read on SFGate that they are giving affected areas MORE TIME as there is no wind yet. I am high (on the hill, not lliterally) in the Oakland Hills. Nothing.
However, as seemingly corrupt/mismanaged as PG&E is, I am all for them doing this--minor inconvenience altho I work from home F/T so I had to make alternate arrangements for the rest of the week.
I'll tell you what a BIG inconvenience is: losing everythuing--a beautiful historic home w/all of its' contents in the '91 Oakland/Berkeley firestorm. This happened to my husband and his family.
Please consider the "other scenario" if PG&E did not put these plans in place.
5
@Julie Renalds, don’t you dare pull the superior, guilt thing on me! I live in a fire prone area. I have driven away from my home twice, with nothing in my car but my dogs and their supplies, in full knowledge that my house might not be there when I returned. Have you experienced that, Julie? No? Then just stop.
One wildfire I ran from — with mere minutes to spare — was stopped on my neighbor’s property.
I have relatives who lost their home to fire, and other relatives who came close. Friends of mine lost their home in the Oakland fire, and I know half a dozen more families who lost homes to wildfires. So just stop, Julie. You have no idea who you are talking to. And if you haven’t ever run from a fire, you should not opine on the subject. Ever.
4
It should be noted that PGE is a convicted felon. https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/26/pge-gets-maximum-sentence-for-san-bruno-crimes/
4
On the one hand, if I was being sued out of existence for billions of dollars in damages, I'd be a tad overcautious with my equipment also. But on the other hand, is this what the beginning of societal breakdown looks like? Rationed electricity and bare shelves in stores? How long before serial climate catastrophes make this seem normal?
10
I am a California resident, PG&E ratepayer, and voted in every general election since 1980.
I do not support the continued existence of PG&E in any form. I also do not support the continued compensation of any PG&E executive.
It is obvious that such a concentration of power is not in the best interest of ratepayers, and the ability to use a widespread shutdown to take the state hostage for more lenient liability terms is, to repeat, a concentration of power not in the best interest of the ratepayers.
It is clear we need a collection of micro grids, based primarily on renewables and storage, which are local enough to be clearly accountable to local customers/ratepayers, and which are joined together to share power back and forth through CAL ISO. The longer lines to which CAL ISO assigns this movement of power need to have an ownership structure which neither has a PG&E like concentration of power (and therefore ability to take hostages), nor the ability to "game the system" which Calfornia's deregulated power system experienced 20 years ago. This is quite doable with local ownership.
Designing utilities for scale simply doesn't make sense any more.
I would like to thank PG&E for the decades of responsible service it provided, before the wall-street-first types took over, cut corners on safety, and killed a bunch of ratepayers in order to put a little more money in investors' pockets. Killing ratepayers is bad for business.
22
@Steve Chalmers
Bingo==a very astute and well-reasoned comment.
3
@Steve Chalmers Relying on renewables and storage? Storage? Yes, well currently there is a little problem with battery storage called PHYSICS. Every renewable power source will have to be backed up by fossil fuels due their intermittency. That's one way to proliferate fossil fuels very few consider.
2
WELL, Here's how Electric power (& phone- landlines too!)
Can be made Weather-storm (and also all- EMP attacks on electric wires too!) is;
1. Bury-in-ground; Power (& Phone Land-Lines! in plastic tubes Storms of course)
--Great economic stimulus too!!!
2. Put Fuel-Cells as an-electric wire terminus at all buildings/ as their nearest-Power/Batteries.
3. Solar panel site -by ea. house-site/
Installs -can be started latter this winter!
Doing these things this Winter, for Starters, will not only stimulate Economy; but makes USA economical Giant on Earth.
Do start before Christmas!
--HBfE
4
This private utility electricity market has been a disaster for nearly two decades. After the power market debacle of deregulating electricity generation and delivery, the historic utilities’ mission of generating and delivery was shifted to delivery only. Virtually all electricity is generated by generating companies. So these private utilities’s sole mission has been to build and maintain the power lines to deliver power. While enjoying automatic rate increases quadrupling the retail price of electricity over twenty years, the companies’ utterly failed to maintain the equipment unless and until it failed - most recently with catastrophic consequences. So where have all those rate increases gone? To the executive suite - to the hundred million dollar compensation packages and to campaign contributions to enable this criminally negligent behavior. In our own neighborhood serviced by PGE, power poles routinely spontaneously combust, without heat and dry winds. These executives belong in prison for manslaughter, along with members of the public utilities commission as accomplices to manslaughter. But no. They file bankruptcy, continue sucking up their multimillion dollar salaries, and turn off the power like a third world country while blaming climate change. Again, in my heavily forested area the transmission lines pass directly through trees and overgrown shrubbery PGE is supposedly mandated (but not enforced) to maintain by trimming.
12
@Dennis spot on...the WSJ has been doing an expose of PGE for the last year.
3
@Dennis, the PG&E contracted tree guys who were on my property this morning — doing the job they should have done back in February, when they were supposed to show up, or in April, when they finally showed up and performed a partial tree trim and removal job — showed me a young ponderosa pine that had a burned top. It had whipped in the wind and touched the electric line, and gotten zapped. That had to have happened between April and today. During the dry season, in other words. We did have some rain in May, but it was just dumb luck that kept us from having a fire here, I think.
3
@Dennis Enron did a bang-up job, let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater...
1
Utilities should be nationalized. That would include your internet connection. A truly autonomous government agency that the CIA, NSA or politicians couldn’t touch without court orders.
9
I live n the Bay Area, and this is another argument for the break-up of P G &E. It is run by greedy, incompetent old men, who are motivated by big benefit /pay packages, and shirking responsibility. The PIC is complicit, and a toothless watchdog. BTW, zero wind 2day. :(
10
@crankyaccountant the CPUC is corrupt. That much has been clear since the San Bruno gas explosions.
2
Mayor Pete is the most capable candidate running. Our fervent hope is for a Pete and Elizabeth ticket, or an Elizabeth and Pete ticket. Either way would be a dream come true for America.
7
If an infrastructure company causes an accident, people blame the company. Then the company responses with this type of retaliation for "safety reasons" that appears to be hard to protest. This is a standard equation, although this particular one may be a bit unusual.
2
What are people with life-preserving machines, e.g., like CPAPs, going to do? You can die from untreated obstructive sleep apnea. Would PG&E be responsible?
3
@Dalgliesh Untreated, sleep apnea over the long term can be associated with increased cardiovascular risk - mostly high blood pressure. Missing a CPAP treatment and dying suddenly from it ?? As a doctor in practice for 25 years, I've never heard of such a thing happening. Of course it's not a trivial thing to go without CPAP (or BiPAP) for an extended period, but dying suddenly due to a black out is very, very, very unlikely to happen.
People, this is all very serious stuff here, please keep things in perspective.
I'm more worried about the people in hospitals or nursing homes on mechanical ventilators, whose lives truly hang in the balance; or the patients with kidney failure performing home peritoneal dialysis overnight with a cycling machine (which requires electricity). Several consecutive days without dialysis can certainly cause risk of death.
5
@Dalgliesh, It’s a real problem. I saw on the news that one Bay Area city had set up centers where people can go and plug in any equipment like that, and stay as long as they wish (and they had lots of power strips for charging devices, because...priorities). But people still have to get there, you know? It’s a mess.
3
@Dalgliesh my 98 year old mom was on 24 hour oxygen for 7 years and whenever there was a power outage I would stay up all night to change her concentrater battery. We are in one of the zones scheduled to shut off in a few hours. As much as she’s missed, at least she didn’t have to deal with PG&Es new normal.
4
This is just a version of PGE privatizing the profits and socializing the losses. Customers get penalized so PGE can protect its profit margins.
14
Back in July New York city’s gas and electric utility, Con Edison, had to have a planned outage for about 20,000 customers in order to prevent cascading area outages. It lasted about two days and was effective in preventing more problems and all customers were restored. That wasn’t good enough for the two incompetents, cuomo and deblasio, governor of NYS and mayor of NYC respectively. Both called for the revocation of Con Ed’s utility franchise and for a state takeover. If something like this ever actually happens NYC consumers can count on massive area outages every two weeks.
2
As someone who lives in California, THANK GOD they are shutting off power to prevent these fires. Yes, this isn't a long term solution and something more will need to happen to address this danger we now live with. I know it's inconvenient but ANYTHING is better than the state burning down every summer. Besides people with medical conditions, we can all deal with a couple of days without power if it spares lives, nature and people's homes.
8
@Kira Mead Could not disagree more with this. First of all, it is not just "a couple of days." Some estimates have it at 5 days or longer. This represents total negligence on the part of the Governor and everyone in government. There were warnings, but there was no preparation. Why would you do this to 1,000,000 people in such an ad hoc manner? Kids had to miss school because of fire smoke for the last two years, now they must miss school for high winds? It is ludicrous.
4
@Kira Mead Yeah, but YOUR power wasn't turned off.
3
@Kira Mead agree - but this is THEIR bad planning and ineptitude. And in SF, you are definitely not dealing with it, whereas 30 miles south, where I am, we will be in about 2 hours.
1
Still waiting to see whether my power will be cut. Still not a whisper of wind here, and the built-in barometer that is my migraine prone brain does not sense any coming on. The actual barometer reading has dropped from 29.86 to 29.82. We are due to get wind, according to the weather guy, in half an hour or so. We’ll see.
2
Why is the Governor-and people-allowing a "public" utility to just turn off the power? This is criminal in my opinion. PG&E is run by rich fat cats who think they can do whatever they want to protect their profits and the peasants can sit in the dark.
9
@Bill Agree. This represents total negligence on the part of the Governor and everyone in government. There were warnings, but there was no preparation. Why would you do this to 1,000,000 people in such an ad hoc manner? Kids had to miss days and days of school because of fire smoke for the last two years, now they must miss school for high winds? It is ludicrous. There are solutions, such as solar and wind microgrids for schools and municipalities. Why have they not been explored by the Governor and PG&E?
3
The governor happens to be one of those fat cats. We recently had a governor, Jerry Brown, who got a lot of good things done like starting to rebuild our road system and taking us from the verge of bankruptcy to an incredible surplus and financial solvency. But to his everlasting disgrace, he enabled malfeasance by the private utilities and sold public water rights to giant farming corporations who use migrant cheap labor and then ship their all their produce abroad (ie Wonderful Corporation). What do we the people get out of it? Water shortages and high food prices. Now we have a governor who thus far has done nothing but get his hair done and make speeches about raising taxes after Gov. Brown left him with somewhere between $30 and 40 million in surplus. The city where the current governor came from, San Francisco, has streets and roads and other infrastructure in worse condition than most third world countries, while enjoying the highest taxes in the state. This is all to say we’ve been sold down the river by the fat cats like our governor.
1
Terrible idea. This just creates more fire related problems. So you’re at home and your power is shut off and eventually your food is going to go bad. So you go outside and have a barbecue on your grill or over a fire pit.
4
‘Smithers, have you notified our customers that we’ve cut off their power for safety reasons?’ ‘Yes sir, I sent them an email!’
9
@ThePB Exactly. Total negligence.
3
This is an Enron end run. Putting 10,000 volt wires up in the air through trees is nothing but creating a huge igniter system for lighting nature on fire. There is only one solution, underground all utilities. Of course this is expensive, but less expensive than the cost of the fires. It will never happen, why? Because it will curtail immediate profits to the CEO and shareholders, a no-no in our world of greed and immediate gratification. I think Enron, sorry PGE is doing this to annoy people so that the state comes in and funds the short term fix, or alleviates their liability. There is no wind today and yet people are suffering without power. Nonsense.
Shame on you PGE
23
@leftcoast it may happen but PGE will quadruple power rates to pay for it.
1
Once again, the consumer is penalized for the sake of exorbitant profit. The US is the only industrialized country where electricity is delivered on one-hundred+ year-old wooden poles. When it's put underground, as in Europe, it doesn't catch fire. Doh! But of course that would cut into the profit if the utilities had to invest in upgrading. Talk to me again about how profit/capitalism is so good for humanity.
32
Here's another case of follow the money. PG&E is owned by stockholders, and many of the largest stockholders are either LLCs (which means hiding real ownership) or mutual funds (which are how America runs its retirement systems and formerly funded its pension structure).
If this were 1942, this sort of cut-off of power would be considered sabotage to the war effort. As it is, it deeply wounds California's economy--an economy whose GDP outstrips that of many nations?
Wouldn't this sort of thing be in line with Putin's long-term revenge scheme against the Western Alliance? Especially considering Trump's (and his collaborating GOP's) grudge against California?
11
After paying its debts, PG&E should protect Northern California by undergrounding its transmission lines. This would be a massive public work, provide thousands of jobs, and would be an investment in safeguarding its own infrastructure and the people in our region.
23
@Karin Payson get ready for a quadrupling of power rates to pay for it.
1
because it is the largest, PG&E gets all the press. What few people seem to realize is the fact that they arenot the only utility doing this.
"The move is part of a strategy by utilities across California to reduce the risk of wildfires sparked by utility lines that break during extreme winds.
Other utilities including San Diego Gas & Electric have shut off power during extreme winds in local areas,
4
After reading most comments It seems many blame the utilities, but 30 years ago nobody lived where all these people are. Then, where there were fires it burned off naturally, today its another story. We can't go back, but nature will. It will burn, flood, tornado, all these people out until it will be impossible to live in those areas. One of the biggest worries will come when huge amounts of people will be forced to relocate. Where will all these poor souls go. Our world is changing faster and faster hope, we can catch up!
2
@jack I’m pretty sure people lived in Paradise, CA a lot more than 30years ago. It’s a small NorCal town from pioneer days! Come on - what should they do? Fire up the oil lamps?
2
Santa Rosa has been around a lot longer than 30 years. As has Santa Barbara and San Diego. The facts are the private utilities have not maintained the lines but have taken the money from rates and paid themselves.
3
I’m not crazy about PG&E. All day we’ve been getting messages and it looks like we have an 8:00 pm shut off. Inconvenient? Yes. But I think losing my home to a fire would be more inconvenient. The Santa Rosa fire taught all of us about how easy it is for an entire suburban neighborhood to burn to the ground. Given that - I’m going to give PG&E a pass on this outage. But I also think they need to upgrade their equipment so fire caused by their lines are a thing of the past,
10
@Gwhizrd This is not a binary situation. There are plenty of solutions to this, including solar and wind microgrids for schools, medical institutions, municipalities, etc...
3
Where's the part about how PG&E diverted funds for upgrades and maintenance to stockholder and C-suite compensation? This is not a story of natural disaster but one of reckless corporate disregard for the public good. I'm lucky enough to be in a part of California with no power disruption, but that doesn't mean I miss the point: return public utilities to public control!
18
@Joan well documented in a series of articles over the past year in the Wall Street Journal.
1
So many of the comments here are so mis-informed, full of falsehoods or hyperbole, and just plain silly.
Personally, as a resident of California.. I do not want to see another large loss of life due to fire from downed power lines such as we saw with the Camp fire, which literally destroyed the city of Paradise.
If that means power interuptions for me personally, so be it. I am simply not selfish enough to make this all about me, and any inconvenience to me.
11
@Chuck Disagree. This is not a binary situation. If PG&E hadn't wasted billions of dollars, it could be invested in putting the transmission lines underground and also in solar and wind microgrids for schools and municipalities.
It does not have to be "fires or no power." That is the construct of governmental negligence.
6
@Chuck you’re misinformed.
1
except it's all across the west, not just pge
Maybe Santa Rosa should install solar powered traffic lights!
5
The preventative power shutoffs are a bad idea. They'll greatly reduce the risk of additional catastrophes like in Santa Rosa/Wine Country and Paradise, but it shifts costs from utilities to communities in highly inequitable way. PG&E should update their infrastructure and power lines so they don't fail.
16
Our local power company in Utah is also developing a plan to cut power in vulnerable areas when the weather conditions create fire risk. Yes, that could be inconvenient, but vastly less inconvenient than actually having my house burn down. So I support the plan. My house backs onto National Forest, so this is not a trivial concern.
for those saying that the power company should be burying power lines, that would absolutely be better, reduce fire risk, be much more aesthetically pleasing, but it would be unbelievably expensive. And the ratepayers would pay. For many people that's a huge and impossible trade-off, and that expense should probably only be born, or mostly born, by people who are at risk for fires.
Should this have been anticipated? Should the lines have been buried originally? Maybe, but to some extent you have to assume the risk is astronomically higher now than it was when the lines were first put in. 50 or 60 years ago, partly because the rate of development is so much higher than would have been guessed originally, and partly because the vulnerable areas are drier now
2
Today we’re in the foothills in an area known as El Dorado County. There’s been virtually no wind all day long. Yet, PGE cut our power last night. Why? It’s nonsensical in my eyes for the state to have structured its regulatory framework in this way. And, I believe PGE and the regulators are equally responsible for this mess. Have friends traveling from the East Coast tomorrow for a Wine Country vacation which is now being routed South towards Monterrey. Why? No power in Napa. This shutoff makes no sense and frankly puts CA in an extremely negative light from a business and tourism perspective to say nothing of what we residents are going through. I’m still stunned the state did little to inform people with serious medical needs of the trouble ahead here. Heck, PGE told the world in ads it would cut power like this and what did the state do? Nothing. Seriously, nothing. All need to get their act together and fast and respond to this as though it’s a natural disaster affecting 1 million because that’s precisely what it is.
14
@Tom B. Why is it the state's responsibility? PG&E caused this mess and should bear full responsibility. As one person in the article said, "I don't think PG&E did a great job." Understatement of the decade.
4
@Tom B. Agree - total negligence on the Governor's, our elected officials' and PG&E's part.
@Tom B. Visit our beautiful Santa Barbara County wineries! Power's on here...great restaurants, inns & lots of delicious wine...
Frankly, this seems more like a a tactic by PG&E to retaliate for being held responsible for the wildfires they've caused in the past. - sort of like a form of "Blue Flu" where cops call in sick and otherwise do everything exactly by the book which causes massive slowdowns and loss of productivity.
And how are 20-30 mile and hour winds, even with gusts to 35, so hard for them to handle? Winds like that are not anywhere hurricane force winds, and their equipment should be built to handle this.
I'm very glad I don't live in the PG&E service area.
12
I live in Santa Rosa. Two years ago, I fled A fire storm with four horses, two dogs and a cat at 3am. It was the most terrifying experience I’ve ever been through. I didn’t lose my house, my heart breaks for those who did, but we all lost something that night. Never again will we feel safe in fire weather.
But what PG&E is doing now is another assault on the victims of the 2017 fires. How long does it take to power down a grid? Ten minutes? Why was my power shut off at 4a in the still, dark hours? Why was I given so little lead time to prepare? Why FIVE days to power us back up? Why no help or credit to install the necessary generator (I’m on a well) given they are clearly incapable of providing a public service.
Shame on you, PG&E. Hope those giant salaries your executives get help you all sleep at night. The rest of us? We aren’t sleeping. 2017 taught us that.
26
Power in this area was cut at midnight. Nine hours later some modest breezes have come through. No word when it will be restored. Businesses and individuals taking a hit from the hundreds to the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Meanwhile, PGE execs collect their bonuses. This is PGE flexing its muscles in a power play - no pun intended - to threaten the state. They managed to keep the power on in seats of political muscle.
24
Another bullet point for here is what you need to know:
Unbelievably, PG&E has failed to build a robust power distribution that can reliably deliver electricity regardless of the weather.
19
@chris Exactly. Is this 1880 or 2020?
1
Announced on the very same day the Nobel Prize is awarded to scientists who have made headway with Lithium Ion batteries. Very telling.
7
First the shut offs were supposed to happen at midnight, and then at noon today, then around 2, it was imminent only to be cancelled and followed by a projected 8 pm shut off. Shut offs based upon information provided by the notoriously unreliable weatherman is becoming a yawner. This has more to do with PG&Es bankruptcy than fire danger.
15
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/opinion/census-question-trump.html
W in the Middle
NY State
July 11
“...Businesses use census data to make $4 trillion in annual private investment decisions. And the information helps them decide where to build, invest in other businesses and what to sell to whom...
“...Utility companies use it to influence where they add infrastructure and invest in new technology...
Yeah, right...
PG&E just an absolute paragon of 21st century grid infrastructure...
CAHSR just rolling out track to where all the people are...
Perhaps I have the numbers wrong, but it seems to me that it would have been less costly to put the wires underground than paying out billions of dollars to fire victims and rebuild homes over and over again. But then, THAT cost would've had to be borne by the utility company, while all of us taxpayers ultimately pay to recover from the fires. And, yes, people also should be prohibited from building near tinder, right up to the wild edge.
14
@Anne Hajduk, where power lines cross private property, undergrounding the lines is not that straightforward. I have a PG&E easement on my acreage. Where the easement stops, the power going to my home continues underground. That work was paid for by the previous property owner. When I had a break in one of the two underground cables many years ago (so that I had only 110 power in my home) PG&E came out and dug it up and fixed it. But they advised that I have some other work done to it that I would have to pay for. It seems that responsibility for maintenance of those underground lines is a bit fuzzy. If PG&E ever decided to bury the easement section of power lines, they would need to either remove about 100 conifer and oak trees, or dig up my asphalt road — the only egress for several households — and and run the lines there. Then they would have to repave the road. This would be massively expensive on a state wide scale, and a mess to manage.
If you are watching the national news tonight, and they show any footage from the Oakland Hills (where there was a massive firestorm many years ago), notice the tree entwined power lines snaking along tiny, one-lane roads, surrounded by homes built out to the property lines. It’s a fire trap. I can’t see them ever putting those lines underground.
Of course, PG&E is bankrupt. So line maintenance has comedown to duct tape and prayer.
3
One thing I learned in engineering school was that the steady-state operation of a power plant is very simple. It's when you have to start one up that you really earn your salary. That is not simple at all. I wish the engineers good fortune in that endeavour.
9
The largest fire in California history was started by a man trying to kill wasps in his backyard. What happened to those who lost their homes in that fire? Who paid? We will still have catastrophic fires despite PG&Es action. Until we address the fact that homes are being allowed to be built, burned, and re-built in tinderbox forests or surrounded by brush, this cycle will continue. It's extremely easy to point the finger of blame at PG&E, but who will make the harder decision to force insurance agencies to issue honest policies for those who chose to build in wildfire hazard zones?
10
@Bryan look no further - AAA is on a roll in San Mateo county cancelling policies left and right.
1
PG&E is a criminal organization, as evidenced by the fact that it has in the past engaged in actions that were prosecutable as murder, or, at best, manslaughter (if you have doubts - google it). Their malfeasance has led to explosions, fires and severe, sustained outages, to name a few. Yet, CA's legislature continues to allow PG&E to exist - this is the true outrage, as is the utter lack of anti-monopoly measures in the public utilities context. When there's a lack of competition, this is what you get.
20
Holding a utility liable for any damages due to wildfires while not restricting where people can build or own homes will only result in more of this type of power outage behavior. There is no logical way to contain the risk of catastrophic liability to the utility if they are providing service in these dry areas. California has made their utilities be fire insurance for all property owners.
Worse, people will likely use less safe power sources that probably increase the fire risk if their utility power is unavailable. Generators, kerosene lighting, candles, and the like will at some point cause the very fires they are trying to avoid by denying utility power.
17
Two million Californians are being held hostage by PG&E. Decades of Govt. rubber-stamped rate increases, and this is what we get. Record shareholder profits and enormous executive bonuses for years and years. Meanwhile, 2 million+ rate payers- customers- are in the dark, trying to feed their families, trying to care for their elderly. SHAME on you PG&E, your corporate greed is disgusting. It is time to break up this monopoly, it is time to hold the California Public Utilities Commission criminally responsible for their actions, it is time to put PG&E executives in jail, it is time to vote the enabling politicians out of office.
27
@Ron power rates in Northern California are higher than in much of Europe.
PG&E sure doesn't want more lawsuits. Also, all this is sure to make people think twice about moving to California.
11
@Mark Browning yes - please - tell them to do that! We’ve had it with everyone moving here.
Gavin Newsom needs to seize control of PG&E and begin the work of off-griding electricity with a solar panel on every roof. Carpe diem.
10
@Jeff the CPUC is in PGE’s pocket. That’s been clear since the San Bruno gas explosions.
@Chris Gray Galling Nuisance has publicly kowtowed to PG&E, saying that they are doing their best. He is in their pocket - do not expect him to do anything positive about this issue.
4
and these are the geniuses that are running the two atomic reactors at diablo canyon.
what will they do when the next earthquake turns them to rubble and sends an apocalyptic radioactive cloud into los angeles?
3
@harvey wasserman DC is closing
1
@harvey wasserman
Obviously they'll just declare bankruptcy again and shut off their customer's power.
CA is a joke - even developing countries do a better job than CA
- By PG&E wind standards, Chicago and lot of mid-west will not have power for the whole year. Never heard of a utility cutting power because of 30- 40 mphs winds
-CA talks about climate change the most, but runs diesel engine driven CAL trains!
-Worst homelessness is SF.
-House prices/ rents thru the roof because of no supply!
- Over regulation and no basic economics is crippling the state
NY is a liberal state as well and has issues, but at least pragmatism work
7
@SD
In Kansas there is a constant 20 mph wind out of the south. It is drier than California. And they play golf in all weather.
But Kansas functions quite well.
3
@Mick F
20 mile per hour winds do not cause shut down of Californias power grids.
60+ mile per hour winds do however, and that is what is currently forecast by the US weather service over the next few days... primarily in foothill and mountain regions (which is where the power grid is being shut down).
1
@Mick F Kansas does not function well. And it's not only the mph of the winds that is at issue, but their nature and direction, which is unusual.
3
PG&E customers: PG&E is attempting to make the problems that arose due to it's negligence, incompetence and mismanagement your problems. Make sure you make them your state legislator's problems.
27
Welcome California to the third world.
9
PGE has shown to be irresponsible. Now, after disastrous loss of lives and property are they being cautious---not by improving their infrastructure, but shutting down power like a developing country. It's time to oust the entire corporate board ( again) and get some intelligence and accountability to the public that this monopoly is supposed to serve.
15
Why do we still have above ground power lines? Many countries in Europe have underground wiring and it seems ridiculous that we don’t, especially in California. Yes, it’s costly but in the long run much better for us
8
@Marilyn
Earthquakes.
1
@Jay
Is that really such a huge risk? I’d be interested in stats on that. And how about other states? I have driven through several and they all seem to have above ground utility poles. Just saying.
4
@ Jay
There are plenty of other underground utilities in Northern California: gas, water, sewer. Los Angeles even has an underground subway. The real reason power lines are not underground is more likely to be that it’s an enormous and expensive endeavor to bury the lines.
Worth the cost in the long run, Governor!
4
Hello from Northern California (Bay Area) again.
One of the calmest wind days for us this year. And in the Sierra foothills where some of the major power lines come through, wind is currently gusting up to 4 mph.
4 mph? We can almost walk that fast.
Yet 500,000 are now without electricity -- some cut off at midnight last night -- and potentially not back on for five days.
That's tough.
Sure hope PG&E is not relying on Donald "Hurricane Dorian is going to wallop Alabama!" Trump for its weather advice.
14
Unreal to leave a State without Electricity to avoid legal peril...over 100 years PGE has created revenue stream beyond the wildest imagination from the 5th largest economy in the world, yet they never upgraded the entire system? That is MALFEASANCE AKIN TO MOSCOW ATTACKS ON UKRAINE, USURPING THE PEOPLES NEED FOR THE FEW.
12
I would love to get solar panels. Why are the tax credits being reduced or eliminated?? Big oil, perhaps?
9
@Astrid
Solar panels are a good idea. The tax credit goes from 30% to 26% in 2020. Still a great tax credit.
If you want to use solar when the grid is down you need a battery based grid tie inverter.
NABCEP is the certifying agency for solar installers. Go to NABCEP.org for a list of local installers. Ask for references from customers that have had battery-based systems installed if you’re going that way.
If you don’t want batteries but you want solar you can get a generator with a transfer switch Installed for times when your utility power will be shut down.
If you’re serious about solar and or a power back up system find a pro, licensed bonded and insured, and get references.
Personally I would argue that considering the tax credit and the high cost of electricity, a well designed and installed solar electric system is a very good investment. Raises the value of your home and will generate clean power for decades.
Greta Thunberg would approve!
1
PG&E has done a terrible job managing this. Their website crashed. The maps and information that are accessible are not up to date. They have kept many of us guessing. Personally, I think that the executives at PG&E are handling this poorly on purpose, as revenge for the bankruptcy court not allowing them their multi-million dollar bonuses. Or maybe it's just still the same incompetent utility company.
This is the same company that killed eight people in 2010 when a gas line exploded in San Bruno, California. It took PG&E nearly one hour before it figured out what happened.
16
I read stories like this and I wonder if we see really living in 21st century America. How has it come to this?
11
PG&E along with the California state government seem to be creating their own interpretation of the weather. I think they are sharing the same sharpie used just a short while ago. Where we are, the weather is gorgeous and the winds are more a gentle breeze. Wonder what the real reasons for the shut offs and impending shut offs really are.
6
PG&E and Governor Newsom are criminals. Newsom has done absolutely nothing to rein in the customer abuse meted out by PGE. The consistent power outages are not sustainable. With the weather changing for the worse, this will be a common occurrence. California has turned into a third-world state as electricity is no longer reliable. Guess what will happen to property values in areas that rely on PGE for electricity.
9
Thank goodness there is no such thing as climate change. Thank goodness President Trump exposed that silly myth for what it is - a plot by the Deep State to make us give up our Hummers. If it gets a little warmer than usual, well, that's why the Deity created air conditioners. Those so-called "firestorms" shown on lamestream media last year? Not buying it. Give you 10-to-1 those were FX outtakes from Only the Brave.
1
PG&E keeps changing the time for our shut off. Now it is 8 pm tonight. Their shutoff could prove more damaging than fires.....there was an earthquake in the Bay Area this morning, people using candles in apartments instead of flashlights and the list goes on. There could be catastrophic events without the power on....but Gov Newsom and state legislators are like sheep standing behind this crooked company as they line their pockets.
7
I recall the president saying we needed to sweep or rake the forests or something. Nothing to do with electric lines!
3
Given the number of fines and suits PG&E has gotten over past fires, this is a very logical, nay obvious, step to take. If the lines are not carrying power, they cannot cause or exacerbate fires, can they?
All those who complained about PG&E's actions in past fires should be praising them for this.
3
Nothing to do with climate change of course, as according to your president it does not exist. just a little inconvenience.
1
Grow up, people, and stay prepared. Mother Nature has done the disruptions for years. In 1943, a sleet storm in Virginia put my community (10 miles southeast of Richmond, Virginia, out of power for five days. As the REA (that’s Rural Electrification for those who haven’t studied FDR’s gifts to the countryside) was only 11 years old in the vicinity, my parents had kept their pre-electrification oil stove in the basement of their new house. The basement of the new house also had a fireplace and a ping-pong table.
You get it. We had hot food, fun, and games.
Water: a CLEAN spring a mile away.
With climate change now a fact of life, time to store useful items for emergent “occasions” and imagine talking instead of texting. And for us in tall buildings: stay in shape to climb stairs when the elevators are out. If you get a warning, fill your bathtub. Practice as your children practice shooter drills and prepare for massive change. It may save yours and your loved ones lives.
4
I live in California wine country. I am in favor of preventing fires with targeted outages when the weather creates risk. But the highest winds forecasted for the next 24 hrs are 6 mph and after that it is supposed to remain calm. Our electricity has been off since soon after midnight and may well stay that way for days. This does not feel like preventing fires. It feels like PG+E is punishing customers for its failure to perform preventive maintenance on its equipment and I can only imagine the crazy outages when our storm season actually hits in the coming weeks...
15
No wind here, and I live in the heart of the outage.
6
Yes, I've lived in California since 1974 - Santa Cruz County since 1989 in a semi-rural area. I am amazed at some of the comments of other residents complaining about the inconvenience, questioning the logic, suggesting someone finds the money (and access) to bury rural power lines, and other general whining and complaining.
Give it a rest! 80 some people were killed in Paradise because of a wind blown spark (likely from a PG&E power line) and as a result of that and other lethal disasters wound up declaring bankruptcy. Of course they are trying to limit their liability now, and who would blame them?
Further, if my losing a few days of TV watching to avoid myself or neighbors becoming a fatality, I'm inconvenienced yes, but happy to do it. Other capable folks who complain don't have a case.
I have a small generator to keep my refrigerator and a few lights on, keep 25 gallons of water stored, clear my house perimeter of brush, maintain a "bug out" bag, have my foundation bolted down and maintain good fire insurance and consider earthquake insurance. It just doesn't make sense not to.
Welcome to California. Climate Change is here - it is not optional - and we will pay the price whether you believe in it or not. In the 70's these disasters did not happen, or were of much smaller magnitude. And in spite of you reluctance to accept it, it will likely get worse.
I love living in California, but there is a new price to pay. Ignore it at your peril.
7
California solidly on the path to third word status. Meanwhile, Japan and Western Europe have all their electricity lines safely in the ground. But, of course we are axiomatically #1!
6
I'm curious about what PGE equipment issues are causing fire hazards. I have never read about these issues occurring anywhere but California.
3
Bury utility lines. As the man said: You can pay now or you can pay later. They paid with fire losses (life & property) earlier and pay with massive inconvenience (at the best) now.
6
Uncertainty is omni-present, despite the illusion that life is predictable and controllable. Any of us could be without power, water, or infrastructure at any time, for any of a number of both natural and manmade reasons.
Every person should be as resourceful and self-reliant as possible by their circumstances and physical abilities. (And yes government and community organizations should be stepping up too, especially for more vulnerable folks.)
In addition to always having about 5 days’ worth of potable water and non-perishable food on hand, one should be: paying attention to weather and the news (battery powered radio); knowing one’s neighbors and being able and willing to help one another in times of crisis and need (and share critical resources); having backup infrastructure such as portable solar chargers.
We can debate the relative risks and handling of this particular power crisis, but one should always be prepared for the unexpected, and look out for each other as well.
3
Please don't forget that California's Public Utilities Commission, which is supposed to regulate privately owned public utilities in the state of California, including electric power, telecommunications, natural gas and water companies, with commissioners appointed by the governor and approved by the legislature, has been in bed with Pacific Gas & Electric for years. Had the Public Utilities Commission done their job and actually regulated PG&E, instead of rolling over for every requested rate increase without any improvement of safety or infrastructure, we wouldn't be in the current mess. Thanks for nothing, PUC.
10
"Climate change, years of drought and the construction of houses and communities in wildland areas have all contributed to the spate of intense and deadly fires in California...."
Climate change and housing construction are both fed by population increase. What will induce us to include population into the climate and immigration discussions?
2
Oh but the private sector always does a much better job than the public sector. Trust us!
Time (long overdue) to rethink that worn-down business and conservative myth.
5
Surely a company as large and resource rich as PG&E could invest the time and money to create infrastructure that would mitigate the risk of creating fires arising from errant sparks and other issues arising from its operations.
We are talking about PG&E, California and the 21st century are we not? Incredible what does and does not pass for corporate social responsibility.
15
@BCG
21st Century Corporate America: Disinvestment and huge shareholder returns. Unconscionable paradigm. I live in a state that is beginning to feel like a 3rd World country---there are the very rich, lots of homelessness, and the infrastructure is shockingly BAD!
3
@BCG
Every engineer's least favorite word, "Surely".
Things often are not that easy, and are far more expensive than people think - and everyone wants a lower price, but then wants the premium experience.
I don't work for any electric company, but I've heard so many of these "Surely" statements and they are useless. What needs to happen is that the regulators need to not take the company's word for it, and it would be a far better idea if they were public industries rather than private. A corporation is in business to make as much profit as they can - a very bad model for a utility or any other inherent monopoly.
4
From the center of the outage, exactly two years after the firestorm.... Winds are calm, and have been since our power went out in the middle of the night. The outage areas seem to be random — areas of Fountaingrove, where some of the worst damage was, have power. We still cannot access the PG&E website.
PG&E spent years avoiding maintenance of its system and equipment. This move is an effort to avoid liability. Yes, we need to make sure these firestorms don’t happen again, but should a private corporation be able to cause this sort of disruption without oversight or input from local authorities?
53
Actually the regulating agency—the CPUC— was heavily involved in setting the rules under which power should be cut. They were also involved in approving or denying funding for maintenance and upgrade activities.
PG&E certainly has blame, but so do the regulators and politicians.
3
@Fran Gast
They've a choice - power off and angry customers, or power on and a potential second Paradise. Which should they choose?
Yep, there should be oversight - but that's hindsight - decades of neglect can't be waved away.
@Fran Gast waiting for our 8pm shut off here on the SF peninsula. NOT EVEN A BREEZE!
1
This is what I do not understand and correct me if I'm wrong. I've always felt the best use of solar power is to take household power off the grid. But apparently people generating electricity with solar power must sell it back to their local utility by law. This is why I have never installed solar panels as the cost is very high and the amortization very long. And the failure rate of solar cells as they age may not mitigate the original cost.
We do not have PG&E for electricity; we have a city utility. Nevertheless, we've experienced many prolonged outages over the years, the last due to a heavy snowstorm. I am not interested in using a generator: one more piece of equipment to learn how to use and maintain.
1
@Old Hominid The solar cells that I purchased from Solar City have a warranty to produce at least 80% of the original output after 25 years. The panels were made in the USA in George by BP Solar. I have them at my office and at my house. Solar City did a return on investment analysis, and the break even point was about 12 years. Because of shading of the properties, it was not cost effective to install enough solar panels to cover 100% of the need, only about 70%. You can calculate how many panels to install if you wish to just meet your capacity. That way you don't have to sell any power to the utility. If you don't want to purchase the solar system, you can lease it. Solar panels might offer significant tax depreciation benefits if purchased for a business property (check with your accountant).
I committed to buying solar panels after we had rolling blackouts courtesy of the Enron and Reliant Energy in 2000-2001. That's when President George W. Bush refused to step in and help California, stating (falsely) that it was the environmentalists' fault, and not the energy traders. I am VERY happy that I bought those solar systems.
8
@Old Hominid You don't have to sell the power back to grid, but for your solar power to last 24 hours you need a battery energy storage systems, which will cost additional thousands. But you will off grid. Needs to be permitted but not against the law.
4
I was recently speaking with a longtime PG&E employee (retired) about managing the fire risk. I asked why powerlines in high risk fire zones weren’t buried. He said the cost and complexity of the land ownership issues made this very difficult. At what point do we just say to landowners in the relevant areas “this work is going to happen on your land for the greater good” - including their own - and just get on with it? Or maybe landowners can dig in their heels until their properties become uninsurable?
11
@Elbeejay
Private property cannot be "taken" by the government without just compensation. PG&E is not the government. Thus, PG&E lacks the authority to "take" private property.
2
@Elbeejay: As a former real estate agent in New Mexico, I understood that power lines that provide public utility service have an "easement right of way" across any privately-held lands. I'm wondering if California is similar in that respect?
4
I am at home in Portola Valley in the hills above Palo Alto CA. The best information was that our power was going to be cut off at noon. It is now almost 2 pm and the power is still on.
It is 68 degrees outside and only a slight breeze blowing.
9
If tens of thousands of people turn to gasoline generators due to this planned power outage, won't the risk of fire actually be greater?
34
And candles, barbecue grills.
3
@Nick probably! Especially when being used by thousands of people who have never used generators before.
5
Many, many people have no earthly idea of the effort it takes to make sure the lights come on when the switch is flipped.
People on this grid in CA are learning quickly, as have many in the Gulf Coast during hurricanes
The more that learn this, the less we will hear about profits and corporate greed and we will hear more about sustainable, responsible mountain living.
8
@George
Not all areas affected are in mountainous areas.
1
@George and who makes this great, misunderstood effort that you're referring to? PG&E?
Are we supposed to sympathize with this highly ineffective, inept, and overall monopolistic utility?
You seem delighted that Californians are "learning" like how you "learned" in Gulf Coast.
These massive utilities just don't get enough credit from their ignorant masses, er I mean customers, do they?
2
So we have hundreds of military bases overseas and been spending trillions of dollars in national defense. But is a country that cannot provide electricity safely to its citizens a country worth spending this much money to defend?
19
@David
I blame PG&E for not proactively maintaining their power lines, even as their own rules mandated. And this has been going on for decades, in the face of climate change. And I blame the rest of us for not holding them accountable for that.
2
Bay area people: you live in earthquake country. I can’t understand people without water, food and portable lights at the ready (unless you really do not have the money). Also do not understand people saying they had little warning. Sign up for emergency alerts, people! PG&e have been sending me texts since early yesterday morning. I moved from the foothills after the Paradise fire because I couldn't handle the wildfire threat. I’d rather deal with earthquakes. Both emergencies require people planning for lack of power and shut down of government services for 5 days or more. Get ready because it is going to happen.
18
@Sky PG&E's website has been a disaster. As a business owner (medical office), it has been impossible to plan our schedule and keep our patients updated. PG&E could have handled this a lot better. On the other hand, in my experience over more than thirty years, PG&E has mostly done a poor job, with two exceptions.
3
Exactly. I suspect most people aren’t prepared for even a minor emergency.
1
Is it just me, or does this planned power outage seem to be something that should be legally questionable?
How can a public utility, which has a legal obligation to serve in the interests of those who rely on its operation for health, safety and even maintenance of life, be allowed by California's Public Utility Commission to cut off power like this?
Seems to me that because of revenue losses, huge expensive law suits, and bankruptcy that PG& E is acting totally irresponsibly in relation to the public welfare of customers in northern California--this should be a legal issue about the role of providers of electric power, which, perhaps it is.
Also, the sloppiness in the way this planned outage has been handled, e.g., short time span for notification and webpage glitches seems highly suspect, and possibly illegal as well.
This just doesn't seem right at all regardless of claims of prevention of wildfires. Does that mean that the power will be cut off in every place where the wind is blowing at a certain level? How realistic is that?
Sounds pretty nuts to me.
25
I disagree. I’m very much in favor of this. The alternative is chaotic deadly fires and health endangering smoke for 1 weeks. Whatever it takes to increase our chances of getting through fire season unscathed.
2
@Cate
High wind with dry air and no recent rain - very explosive conditions. And public commissions will see human lives (see the town of Paradise) as worth more than inconvenience.
2
Blame the pol heads i.e. Newsom keeps bragging about a surplus created by ..... tax increases
3
@james alan Ludicrous. PG&E is a private company that has done next to nothing to make improvements to its lines. This has nothing to do with our governor. He doesn't run PG&E,
27
@Julie but the CPUC bears a lot of blame. And who appoints the members?
Corrupt PG&E should be put out of its misery once and for all. Holding hundreds of thousands of Californians hostage to their racketeering is beyond unconscionable.
Where are our legislators???
22
Solar anyone?
8
Revoke Prop 13. Use the additional tax income to fund a state takeover of PG&E.
13
Honestly no better people for this to happen to...this is the California Contract that you signed by loving there.
3
@Simon some of us are 5th generation natives with no intention of living anywhere else
1
Our power is generated by hydroelectric facilities on the Colorado River and by fossil fuel plants in the mountain states, and then must be conducted to coastal population centers through hundreds of miles of mountains via cables strung on enormous towers. Burying these is a pipe dream. Clearing all trees beneath these routes still leaves tinder dry brush capable of igniting fires. Smaller distribution lines require an army of tree services, and these are hard to come by now that they also are liable for damages if trees they have worked on are found to have been responsible for fires. Electrical malfunctions cause sparking and fires; the threat may be reducible, but not eliminated. Given the conditions Of high winds and low humidity over the area of the network, temporary outages may be the best among unhappy options.
13
So much for electric cars.
11
While this story is relatively well reported, it should have talked more about corruption and mismanagement at PG&E. The company’s negligence, especially with clearing trees and brush, over many years, while at the same time giving large bonuses ($11 million this year), deserves more attention. Once again, as with sweetheart deals with the CPUC, it’s customers who bear the burden.
38
@voter not to mention fat stockholder dividends in the past
2
@voter Until now, I never considered that.
Shouldn't a responsible energy company have carefully trimmed and pruned the vegetation beneath their power lines and structures? Instead, we have a corporation all too willing to have the consumers bear the brunt of its own malfeasance by periodically having to forego electricity. https://nyti.ms/2LZtEow
15
I'm in Sacramento, which is in northern California and NOT serviced by PG&E. Instead, we have a community-owned utility (Sacramento Municipal Utility District or SMUD for short). If you look at the PG&E outage maps, Sacramento is like an island on the map. No planned outages. Meanwhile, 9,000 of our brethren in West Sacramento, immediately across the river, but a different city and different county, which are serviced by PG&E, have power cut.
Hopefully, more voters in the area will vote for SMUD annexation in the future so they don't have to deal with PG&E's shenanigans!
32
I am so cranky with PGE. This is the best solution to shut off the power to 800,000 people.
It's causing chaos and confusion for all who are impacted. Governor Newsom please do something!
12
The California Legislature, in their wisdom, has seen fit to make PG&E liable for all damages caused by wildfires. At the same time they don't allow proper land management of wildfire susceptible forests, in the name of environmentalism. This liability includes the right of fire insurance companies to recoup their losses by suing PG&E. Further, the State controls what this utility can charge, how much profit it can make, and therefore what projects it can undertake. PG&E is now in bankruptcy as a result.
Liberals always want to blame, blame, blame. They make absurd rules based on political idealism, and when they don't work they blame those who are ruled by their rules. California is the bell weather of what happens when Socialist Libs run wild with no balancing force of common sense to oppose them.
PG&E is now left with little choice but to shut off power anytime they feel that any of their facilities might be blamed should there be a wildfire. So nearly a million people now arbitrarily have no electric power. Congratulations California; just when you couldn't make it any worse for your citizens, you managed to find a way.
9
@Rocky I would suggest that the problem isn't really a liberal one as you suggest but rather one of mostly legacy infrastructure. A look at the history of CA's political majorities throughout the last century, when most of this infrastructure was built, shows that parties have their fingerprints all over this problem and should share equally if one is intent on assigning blame
We here in Missouri, a red state, have had many of the same electrical infrastructure problems that have resulted in extended outages, albeit not fires as we are not prone to them here. How could this be if this was a "socialist libs" running unchecked problem?
Not really sure what would motivate a FL resident to come up with such a passionate narrative but I suspect it may have nothing to with power outages.
3
@Rocky
Actually, it’s greed, mismanagement and corruption that have caused this problem, exacerbated by climate change and global warming. It’s not really a “liberal” or “conservative” issue, although the failure to take bold action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is arguably a tragic failure on the part of republicans. Florida has its share of these problems too. Real solutions require us all to work together.
2
customers = households so multiply on average by 2 or 3 or 4x......PGE run by a tech CFO for years like a .com and not a utility - paying the price now, though out here it appears the outage may be overblown (but too early to tell). PGE making a point that if the consumer doesn't want catastrophic fires they have to take this instead......there will be injuries and prob. deaths associated with this too.
2
The state needs to take over PG&E.
This is ridiculous.
We have lived through a number of fires, including the 2003 and 2007 fire storms.
Turning of the electricity in the cities is ridiculous.
Turning off the power in the wild lands makes sense and that is what is done down in So Cal.
The problem are the fires that start in rural areas with sparse fire suppression resources. The wind drives them to the cities.
Turn off the power only where necessary.
My daughter is stuck in a high rise dorm in Berkeley with no cell service, no electricity, no hot water, no food.
How many people will die from traffic accidents due to no traffic lights. How many medically fragile individuals will die in this heat with no AC.
How many crimes will be committed by criminals who take advantage of the black-out.
PG&E should be taken over today!
11
And some will scream that public utilities will lead us down the road toward “ socialism,” while tolerating this mess.
6
This is nothing but a shakedown. California is being held hostage by PG&E.
Want uninterrupted power? Then reduce our liability for fire exposure and increase our rates so we have the money to build better infrastructure. Never mind the many billions of dollars we squandered over the years.
10
My mama is 85, legally blind, and living alone in her home in Placerville, CA - a small city in the Sierra Foothills that is situated almost exactly like Paradise. It, too, has only one road leading in and out. The hilly terrain, vegetation, and elevation are nearly identical. So I feel the urgency to prevent a repeat of the Camp Fire.
Yet, I know my mother is only one of many seniors who are stranded in their homes. My sister lives within driving distance and she got my mom a cell phone yesterday - but with blackouts anticipated to last five days, how is she to charge it? She can't drive! Her food will go bad! I thank my stars that my sister is near enough to help, but I'm still worried. Then I think of all the seniors and disabled folks who rely on electricity to sustain health and even life.
PG&E, you have got to do better. The present failure is the culmination of many years of neglect, running back to at least the era of the Diablo Canyon cost overruns that resulted from placing a nuclear reactor on a fault line! Somehow your shareholders and execs are thriving. Your customers, not so much. You're making the case for a public takeover of your assets.
30
@Patty I appreciate your concerns about your mother, but Placerville is hardly a one road in town. It is situated at the intersection of US 50 and CA 49. US 50 is an arterial road between Sacramento and South Lake Tahoe. Not at all like Paradise.
4
@DWes I know Placerville well as I've lived there myself.
The prospect of people trying to evacuate via CA 49 is terrifying. It's a narrow, twisty, road - a wonderful scenic byway very poorly positioned to serve as an escape route. Moreover, for most residents, reaching Hwy 49 would require traversing a stretch of US 50. This would be the case for residents of smaller towns further uphill such as Pollock Pines.
The Placerville City Council has heard testimony that the city could suffer the same fate as Paradise in 15 minutes, given similar wind and fire conditions. Paradise was engulfed in just 36 minutes. (Source is the Placerville Mountain-Democrat - I'm not linking because I don't think the NYT allows URLs, but the article is easily found if you google "Placerville Paradise fire."
I appreciate your post, and I'm well aware that apocalyptic thinking is not our friend. I wish the threat were illusory!
Here's hoping you get your power back in Berkeley soon!
2
California could be a leader in innovative power sourcing and distribution. Massive power grids and above-ground transmission wires are the opposite of what we need. There's really no one in state government spearheading a movement to substantive next-wave solutions for either electricity or water security, not to mentioning hardening the grid against more than PG&E's attacks on their hapless customers. Gavin Newsom and his ilk are empty suits spouting PC bromides. We need to reprioritize to effect real progress. Except for those whose extreme wealth insulates them from almost all vicissitudes, Californians are getting an increasingly raw deal.
10
Looking forward to Gavin Newsom becoming President and hopefully managing to reallocate some of the trillions we spent on a bloated military on some much needed infrastructure for all states, but especially one that supports 10 under-performing states.
7
@Cheryl Tunt Is California underperforming state? California is the 8th largest economy. When an energy company operates in California shut off half of the states. Any politician in California shouldn't run to lead the country. They will shut off half of the country's energy.
We have an incredibly benighted Public Utilities Commission - political appointees- and two para- and quasi- govermental agencies, TURN and ORA, who have fought against utilities' requests for more funding for repair and maintenance, for DECADES.
That said, PG&E elites are gutless and have year after year failed to be effective against these agencies, who essentially have created conditions for disaster then pass the buck.
Really a tragedy that in a state as rich as california the priority has been on low rates rather than safety. People have paid for this with their lives and PG&E, PUC, TURN and ORA should share equal blame but of course the utility is the first in line of fire.
7
Hum,maybe PG&E could use some of their $1.66 billion in profit for maintenance and improvements?
8
This is the direct result of a private company's (PG&E) willful failure to upgrade its infrastructure. Now that it's being held to account for its gross negligence in the Paradise fire, it's trying to mitigate its exposure to any further liability for its still-faulty infrastructure by simply turning the power off when it's windy. The obvious solution here is to force PG&E to upgrade its systems, as it should have been doing all along. People should not be forced to go without power because PG&E is too greedy to make the necessary repairs. Maybe we shouldn't have utility companies that are allowed to put the interests of the shareholders above those of their customers?
24
Californians are being hit twice: by PG&E's failure to maintain it's equipment and by the President's retaliation against the state. Pres Trump kept the nation's most powerful fire-fighting plane in a hanger in Southern Calif during our terrible fires but offered it recently to Putin to help him with fires in Russia. We are also on Trump's naughty list for fighting his effort to roll back clean air and water regulations, among other things. We will get little federal help but suggestions to rake our forests.
10
Yet another reason for every homeowner to install solar panels on their roof: not only to cut carbon emissions, but also to reduce fire risk and provide greater power independence.
12
@Anna
Just as long as they also install battery storage in their home as well. Any system connected to the grid (necessary to get reimbursed for surplus energy created) will shut down when the grid does.
9
I see people looking at making this a public utility - i think this will require a buy out, which will cost billions. It may be better to use those billions to upgrade equipment instead of paying off the stock holders (with political connections...)
Better to use regulations (safety) and consumer rights (keep fees low).
Of course -this could have been done in the first place - why wasn't it?
5
It's time for all electric utilities to be owned by municipalities. That's how it is in LA and it should be that way all over California. Take the profit out of it.
15
As a Florida resident that has gone through my share of power outages post hurricanes, I say welcome back to the 1800’s. what this should do is accelerate the adoption of solar and micro grids.
11
I hope people in the blackout zone registered their cell phones with reverse 911 and charged up a handful of external batteries to get them through the next few days. It’s not just power lines that spark fast-spreading wildfires in these conditions, and now is not the time to chew up your phone battery surfing the internet.
2
This is our second planned outage. No wind ever occurred during the last three day outage. So far we have been 12 hours without power and there is barely a breeze blowing. How long does it take to turn off power if the predicted weather actually materializes, rather than cutting it a day prior to even the predicted winds? Thousands of people losing food to spoilage, unable to work or go to school, medical needs unmet. Power lines need to go underground in California. No one wants a repeat of the Paradise Fire, and believe me, we are paying for it in higher power rates and astronomical fire insurance rates. Utilities should be public, not private for-profit corporations.
13
solar panels along with battery storage will go a long way to break dependence on utility companies when weather forces power outages - it is not going to get better, adverse impacts from climate change are real and the reason for shuttong off power is just one example of it.
4
I lived in Northern California from 1975-1993. Except for six years in San Francisco (which was windy), I Iived in Chico (next to Paradise). In the 70’s and 80’s there were a few big fires, but nothing like we are seeing now. What seems very different now, is the high winds. I have no memory of high winds in Chico, Paradise, or Redding. (Or if there were some, they were rare enough that I don’t remember.). Something has drastically changed, and I think we know what it is.
14
Incidents like this are why people in many regions should be very hesitant to have only an all-electric car for personal transportation.
Having all of one's eggs in one basket is rarely wise, especially when all of the neighbors are crowding into the same basket.
6
@Alan Solar panels and storage batteries are common among those who choose all electric. These would be unaffected.
10
@Alan Have some solar panels and grid tied battery backed inverter. No worries. Way better than visiting a pump.
7
@Ltron
Excellent point.
That would be ideal. But it seems a lot of people think we should be racing to adopt electric cars before our power sources and systems are properly tailored for them.
3
Is there a reason we haven't placed power lines underground?
Wouldn't that avoid tree branches, sparks that could start fires, etc., and make this whole mass power outage process unnecessary?
32
@Dr J
If the power grid was being built today.. it would largely be underground. Just like if a phone utility was being built from scratch today, it would not be land lines, but rather wireless distribution. History is a powerful influence over things like public utilities.
But you have to keep in mind... the powergrid in California is long established, and is something that being an installed base.. the most effective method to maintain it is by incremental maintenance and upgrades. Same goes for gas lines.. which are largely underground.. and are a real pain to replace when they are tested and found to be out of safety spec.
9
at something close to $8/mile, very few qualifed contractors to perform the work and no real ability to underground utility lines that run through rough rural terrain, undergrounding has it's place in keeping citizens safe but will not stop the fires.
2
@Dr J
The same reason they are not made from platinum.
1
The real story here is the manufactured nature of the "crisis" that PG&E insists it is averting. However, the weather in northern California today is mild (mid-70s) and mostly windless, just another normal fall day, probably cooler and calmer than most. We had far hotter and windier weather last week. PG&E's actions are intended to do one thing: cover them from further legal liability -- and ironically puts many Californians in actual danger, especially customers who rely on power for life-maintaining equipment.
39
If NOAA issues a severe wildfire threat warning even before its Red Flag Day warning, then I think the weather you experienced this morning is likely not going to be the weather tonight.
5
@Bob Egerton
Check the national weather service reports for California. There are high winds expected for the next 2 to 3 days in the foothills and low lying mountains.. where powergrids are in abundance as they route power to large urban centers. We are talking projected winds of up to 60 miles per hour.. and VERY dry conditions.. which means one live power line dropping due to wind damage onto dry foliage an we have a potential repeat of Paradise.
6
So they say. We’re still waiting. Alameda county shutoff now delayed until 8pm. Want to bet they call it off after their panic inducing warnings? PG&E needs to be far more nimble and far more granular in terms of turning power off. Global shutdowns impacting millions of people is not an acceptable answer to some dry winds in the Central Valley. That is the norm this time of year. Still cool and calm around the entire bay....
3
You crash the company into bankruptcy because of the wild fires, they pull the plug so as not to do that again. Seems like a reasonable response by the electric company.
29
How does a a state like California end up with a third world level power utility?
PG&E fails to maintain power lines which then cause fires so the solution is to turn off power to prevent fires?
The officers of PG&E should be out there pruning tree's back and replacing lines
42
Many hundreds (or thousands) of miles of wires through places that are nearly impossible to access with the machines and people needed.
2
@cynicalskeptic Power companies should not be allowed to be publicly traded. PGE's first responsibility is to shareholders, not customers.
10
@cynicalskeptic
3rd world power grids are something that literally is down for all or part of the day.... EVERY SINGLE DAY of the year. When they are up... they typically are subject to rolling brown outs at random times as well.
The power grid in California certainly needs regular maintenance and repair.. but calling it a 3rd world grid.. is just mindless nonsense.
4
We are ready. IF nothing else this will show that the fires of last were NOT caused by a PGE errant spark, but by climate change. Bring it on .
3
It's way past time to put power lines underground. PEPCO, in DC at least, has started that process. Less profit, more infrastructure.
18
@OnlyinAmerica You have no idea what sort of terrain or conditions this is talking about. The lines are underground in the city. That is not the problem. Take a look at California on a map - it is roughly 700 miles by 200 miles in size, and some of that is isolated and rugged.
15
@OnlyinAmerica
The issue isn't distribution lines in cities; it's high voltage transmission lines outside of cities. Those are never buried for several reasons, one being cost. By the way, the transmission lines leading to DC are above ground. (I work in the electricity/power sector)
11
@Multimodalmama A. Lines are not underground in cities - at least not in much of SF. PG&E has a long history of poor management and lax maintenance - often in the places most dangerous to residents. They should be required to underground all of their local distribution lines - regardless of terrain - and their shareholder - not ratepayers should pay for that.
3
I feel like I’m bracing for The Purge: Power Outage.
We’re in the Bay Area and still have power, but I'm holding my breath. Despite checking PG&E's website, I'm still not sure if our neighborhood will be impacted. Information has been rather scattershot. And I only got word of the impending outage on Monday - not much time to plan for it.
14
Plan and stay alert and planned. You will need it. Different world these days. It’s part of “interesting times.”
PG & E and SCE announced their intention to do power shutdowns during wind events right after the State refused to grant them complete immunity from liability when their poorly maintained equipment caused fires. Coincidence? Ha, ha!
They are putting pressure on the State to give them immunity by making customers angry.
It's corporations wielding their power, folks.
80
Yep, clearly an act not for safety but attention. It is not yet windy and yet power is out.
5
@The Poet McTeagle You got it exactly right. This is a cynical ploy to force the hand of the governor (who is not doing himself any favors by playing into this PG&E manufactured farce).
3
@The Poet McTeagle It sure does feel a bit retaliatory.
2
It's simple extortion. PG&E says that if they will be held liable for their incompetence, they just won't supply any services at all. It is almost certain that the economic losses caused by this shutdown will far, far exceed damage caused by limiting the power outages to really high risk areas when the winds actually start to blow.
42
Maybe we need Trump to impose Federal regulations to prevent these types of problems.
Yeah, right.
7
This has got to be the most idiotic thing I have heard of.
Because of years of misuse of funds and no attention to moving wires underground, or proper maintenance of the poles, and surrounding natural environment, they are now pulling power traffic lights etc from the public.
I know that the infrastructure in the United States is bad across the board. But this is just unbelievable.
I guess the only thing the public in these areas can do is get generators, as the politicians appear to be not at all concerned.
25
@marie
I wonder how much air and noise pollution will be coming from all those generators?
How many fires will occur when gas cans are knocked over or gas spilled?
4
@marie This what extractive capitalism looks like.
5
@marie Yes you are right. And those gas-powered generators are -- wait for it -- huge fire hazards. The irony. PG&E is a shameful excuse for a utility.
3
Are they still charging for them?
3
I suspect that over the years those in charge of the utility's maintenance have had their bonuses determined on how much they came in under budget.
23
This totally feels punitive, like "you're going to hold us responsible for the fires? well we're going shut off your power!" PG&E couldn't do maintenance, because it might have cut into their shareholder returns! So, they have to just stop providing power whenever they feel like it. This is why utilities and infrastructure shouldn't be privately held. Deregulation was a terrible mistake, and "public-private partnerships" are a complete scam. Thanks a bunch Ronald Reagan!
64
Are santa clara and san fransisco really in danger from fires due to poorly maintained transmission lines? Those areas are densely populated and have major roads. This is some of the most expensive real estate in the world...
This locations shutdown sure sounds political.
21
@The Ed - Santa Clara County has hilly and heavily forested areas, mostly affluent neighborhoods and nature preserves. They make up the eastern flank of the Santa Cruz mountains. I believe San Francisco is not affected by the outages.
2
wildfires now easily jump eight lane freeway, even jump lakes. I wouldn't ever suggest anywhere surrounded by wildfire risk is safe just because it is urban. By the way, houses burn faster and spew far more more toxins in the air than forest fires.
3
Marin County is absolutely at major risk for fires. The City of SF is not losing power.
2
What I don’t understand though is why everyone seems to need to rush to the store and buy out all the flashlights, batteries, water etc every time a weather disaster is forecast or, in this instance, a planned power outage? Why not maintain an emergency kit that contains flashlights, batteries, battery operated radio, solar charger for phones, water, food etc? One could assemble something like this for a reasonable cost and just keep the contents up to date. This would eliminate the big run on stores and the resultant bare shelves and frayed nerves. Just sayin......
16
@Greenie CA doesn't get weather disasters like New England. A go bag for fires and earthquakes but not the 'shelter in place' storms we see here
3
I wish the report would have included details or links to information about PG&E's many failures to maintain equipment and respond to outages and breakdowns. It's an outrage that their new CEO has a compensation package that is twice that of his predecessor, and that despite being in 'bankruptcy', the company plans to pay out millions in bonuses this year.
30
How will hospitals be dealing with this for five days? What about people who rely on oxygen machines in their own homes? Scrambling for fuel and generators sounds like a disaster in the making.
8
@Liza Hospitals have generators so they can deal with power outages. People who need power for oxygen machines or to keep medications refrigerated were warned months ago to get a backup generator. Keeping fuel around for this sort of event is more hazardous than the event itself. There were lines at gas stations yesterday as people filled their cars and storage containers for fueling generators but it certainly wasn't a disaster, more like an inconvenience - waiting 5 minutes for a pump instead of just driving right up.
“Avoid driving if at all possible,”
That advise works in Chicago and New York where public transit is everywhere but I didn't think it was as prominent in areas of central and northern CA.
I worry for folks who are on respirators and other medical equipment which requires power.
Somehow turning off power which effects 500,000 of the 800,000 customers to help prevent fires creates different and other problems for people.
If "more than half of all counties in California — 34 out of 58 — are expected to be affected by the power cut" it sounds like a major set of disasters on a different scale.
The very best of luck to all CA residents who will be effected by this power cut. May you and your loved ones be safe.
14
The state is requesting that drivers stay off the roads to reduce the risk of accidents because traffic signals and railroad crossing gates will not be operational during the outage.
3
@Marge Keller I would think that PG&E should supply, free of charge, genertors for anyone requesting one. How does one stock up on food, have warm water for bathing, and as you pointed out, run necessary medical equipment in homes?
@Marge Keller I agree this is an outrage. I'd also point out that PG&E's actions impacts 500K to 800K *accounts* -- this equates to millions of actual people, I believe on the order of 2.5 million.
2
It's really cool that the couple that work for a dot.com (even if it is Walmart) live on the coast and can take the time off and surf -- but is that a good representation of the impact of this? Honestly?
14
We are definitely going solar ASAP! Too bad the Trump administration has cut funding to alternative power research and increased tariffs on solar panels made in China. We need to decentralize the power grid and make it more local using alternative power sources.
W
20
So what happens now if a fire sparks in one of these areas without power? How will word get out about it and where to go? Can't turn to the local TV news, that's for sure. I can just imagine the disorderliness of traffic signals are also down. And more chaos at night with no street lights.
14
@AJ
believe the old school solution is a hand-crank, battery-powered or car radio.
There are also hand-cranked cell phone chargers to stay online (likely sold out in the short term). I think mine was about forty bucks.
1
I just moved from California, having lived there all my life, and I can tell you that this is a smoke screen by PG&E who has refused to cut a path around their power lines through the trees, which used to be a never ending job that was taken seriously. Now the policy is to shut off power to large swaths of the population while making up stories about how relatively moderate wind can blow down power lines, rather than swinging branches and falling trees.
If PG&E is unwilling to provide reliable electrical service aerially then they should be required to place it underground, and please don't respond with myths about constant earthquakes, which are very rare, mostly localized, and a minor consideration compared to electrical contact with trees.
I know many PG&E linemen who are disheartened by the profit-above-all-else attitude of their employer, who deserve all the negative press they get.
There is no substitution for preventive maintenance, regardless of how much it costs. If PG&E refuses to provide service to their paying customers they should be put up on the auction block or taken over by the State.
74
Hedy ... what did PG & E do with their tax cuts from Trump?
18
This is the cream of American Business today? The guys who know all the answers, take all the risks, get all the money...
Now, like their fellow-failed and fraudulent corporation Enron, they have shut down California.
Like Enron, there's a better than fair chance they will be killing off a customer or two as they laugh about the excellence of their strategy.
This badly managed monster can't manage to bury cables. Can't manage to trim trees. Can't manage to live in the state it dominates economically and politically so, of course, they turn it into rural India, to out back Ecuador, ravaged Puerto Rico. Except, of course, they still want California money.
If ever there was reason to crush a corporation, to kill it, take its money and its assets and hand them to some reasonably competent other set of managers, this is the one.
Or maybe keep it for the state and its long suffering, undeserved people.
Time to remind all their investors, every single one, of brokers run that "past performance is no..." boilerplate every chance they get.
You made your choice. You took your investment shot. You lost. Everything. This company should be so gone by now. Its not as if there's nobody else desperate to take over the business, and far better qualified.
55
@oogada And the shut down will pressure the PUC to allow PG&E to raise consumer rates to pay for the suits against them. But the consumers are not to blame for the past and future fires. You are correct, while the owners of PG&E stock hope for a positive return of their stock investment, it is they who bear the risk of poor performance by the company. And in this case, PG&E’s maintenance has been extraordinarily poor over the years.
The PUC should not allow consumer rate increases. Instead, they should force PG&E to issue addition stock shares sufficient to cover their losses in court, thereby diluting the value of the outstanding stock passing the losses on to those who should bear the risk.
4
Weather here cool with no wind & high humidity & yet PGE ignores that fact & shuts down large areas where there are no safety issues. Lots of angry people here. But no alternative other than unethical PGE.
27
@Elizabeth
The California Report did a good job of explaining why shutdowns are necessary in places like Berkeley. https://www.kqed.org/news/11778926/planned-blackout-during-wildfire-weather-causes-upheaval
The power system is a grid. If portions of the grid east of Berkeley have to be shut down because of whether conditions, then there is no way to deliver power to Berkeley because the power cannot "surgically" be shut off. Check it out.
3
@Elizabeth Answer: Solar + batteries. If you live in a house, stop relying on PG&E for power.
3
@Abby The hazardous weather conditions predicted by PG&E statewide have not (yet) come to pass. They keep pushing back the time frame - apparently it will get windy later today ... maybe. I'm skeptical.
2
PG&E has postponed maintance for years, or they just don't ever do any. Just look at any electrical pole. It is a tangle of live wires amoung a tangle of abandoned ones. I have a rotted pole on my block that they cut away from the ground, braced and bolted it to a new pole and they are both a huge mess of wires. All of the insulation is long gone. If this was in your house the city, mortgage company, etc. would never give a permit or approval.
36
Rather than innovate and update, PG&E would rather cut the power to nearly a million customers. This is a glaring example of the vulnerability of our nation's - outdated - power grid.
44
PG&E has failed over many decades to properly maintain their easements and encroaching vegetation so now, their only solution is to disrupt the lives of more than a million people so they avoid further liability for their negligence.
Worse, they can't even be specific. I got an email that says the power is out at my address, or it soon will be. (It's not. Not yet.) And it may be out for 48 hours. Or it may be out for several days.
Of course, after the windy conditions abate, they won't restore power. They'll still have to go around the service area to inspect the power lines for damage.
I live in the flat lands, in a residential neighborhood with well-spaced trees lining the street. I don't see where the danger is.
It would help a great deal if we knew what to expect.
22
@Occupy Government ~
Your neighborhood is part of a huge and complicated network.
6
For years, utility companies have been allowed to get away with charging customers for capital improvements -- things like maintaining wiring, relocating equipment underground, updating technology -- all while rewarding shareholders with large dividends. Ratepayers have been left holding the bag for interest on debt for money that was borrowed not to improve infrastructure, but to buyback shares.
Enough is enough. Rate increases to pay for necessary capital improvements should be suspended and these companies forced to modernize. Had management maintained the infrastructure as needed, we would never have gotten to this point. Utility board members who've allowed this to happen should be removed from their positions.
These companies are granted a monopoly to provide service. In exchange for guaranteed customers, they should be required to fulfill their obligation to provide safe and reliable service. Cutting off power for a week because the wind might blow hard is ludicrous.
36
My sister lives in N Ca in one of the areas blacked out so she had to recently buy a gas powered generator for these events in order to power the pump for her well as well as freezer and fridge. How much emissions are now coming from all those generators running round the clock while the power is out? It’s not like electricity is a luxury anymore, not to mention how many of those might catch fire as well especially since most us use them are not electricians themselves. PG&E is just punishing the public for their bankruptcy.
21
@John Doe
Your last sentence ABSOLUTELY hits the nail on the head. PG&E, SoCalEdison and San Diego Gas/Elec are using these "preventative power outages" to retaliate against customers for the fact that they (the companies) are not being allowed to force the rate payers to pay for the companies' negligence or malfeasance.
Just this week, SDG&E lost its last appeal to stick rate-payers with a $390+ million bill in penalties it still owes for the devastating 2007 fire storms that were sparked by the companies' equipment.
The attitude of all three companies is: We'll make you so miserable, you'll be willing to pay anything, no matter how corrupt our behavior.
15
@John Doe Um, solar?
1
Rebecca, because maybe my sister up in Georgetown still might need running water after the sun goes down? People on their own well water don’t use hand pumps anymore like grandma used to but now they need electricity all the time for the pump motor to give the house water pressure.
2
Since this is the New York Times, here's a message for New Yorkers: Pay attention to the Ghost of Christmas future.
From what I've read, the Indian Point nuclear power plant north of NYC supplies about 25%% of the city's electricity. In April, 2020, about half a year from now, one of the two nuclear reactors at Indian Point will shut down forever. One year later, in April 2021, the second reactor will shut down.
The decision to close Indian Point was made by Gov. Cuomo; a nuclear facility close to NYC poses risks, and the decision may have been correct. If there's a source of replacement power.
The lost power was supposed to be replaced by natural gas generation. But natural gas is a fossil fuel. The city and state politicians and environmentalist have repeatedly blocked the construction of new natural gas pipelines. Solar power and renewable energy can only go so far, particularly since there's presently no easy means of storing energy for when the sun isn't shining. The proposed Storm King Mountain pumped storage facility was blocked by environmentalists during the 1970's.
Today, there is a shortage of natural gas in the New York area; I believe Consolidated Edison is not allowing new natural gas connections in many areas because of the shortage.
Until recently, Mayor De Blasio was busy running for President. Now that he's back, he badly needs to do the math and be sure the lights (and elevators) don't go out in NYC in a year or so.
14
@Alex I know of at least one gas-powered plant north of NY City being built to make up for this coming shortage. Smartly, it is being built right next to an existing long-distance gas main, and close to existing transmission lines. The Con Ed gas issue affects new residential usage in the city and immediate Westchester suburbs.
1
As that Danish legislator pointed out after the president lashed out at Denmark, there are fewer hours of lost power per year per customer in Denmark than in the USA. Infrastructure, anyone? Climate change, anyone? Bloated defense, unable to protect the nation from foreign attacks on its democracy (or on 9/11 for that matter), bloated corporations, and dysfunctional day to day life for millions of citizens, day after day, somewhere or another in the nation. Priorities would seem to require reordering, but, along with the president, who is required to communicate with the Congress only once a year but spends all day tweeting about it, the Senate, in particular, would rather be in recess and then disappear, only resurfacing when they feel like appearing on TV again, as if giving interviews to the media were what they were paid $174,000 + all those perks for. I never got to hire staff to help me with my job. They do. Why? If they have time to go on TV or hobnob with lobbyists, they have time to manage with less staff and work in their offices fulfilling their duties instead, spending less time opining and catering to donors, a task the American taxpayers do not ask them to carry out or pay them for.
16
Everyone involved in the management of PG&E's maintenance and safety areas, as well as the top-level management, should be in jail by the end of next year.
The chances of PG&E suddenly being the cause of all these fires are slim. I'd bet that further research would expose a pattern of such incidents going back 20 years.
I lived in the Tahoe/Sierra area for 15 years and a lot of fires had some pretty suspicious explanations.
Next up? A government bailout for PG&E while their management lives high on the hog with the money they "saved" by not keeping their system, and their customers, safe.
21
Anti-trust legislation would have prevented this. $11 billion was spent on settlements when they could have addressed the decrepit infrastructure for far less. This was likely a calculated move. Skip the upkeep, pay the fine, play the victim, and then force rate increases to do the maintenance that should have been part of the service in the first place (possibility of State bailout money too?) The rate payer loses coming and going.
27
The cost of hardening the system to tolerate seasonal winds would probably have been less than the economic losses caused by the shutdown.
8
@Don This is orders of magnitude less economic cost than hardening all the transmission and distribution lines through wildfire prone areas, which would cost 10s of billions.
3
@Don In some places, the benefits of hardening outweigh the shutdown, but not all. And yes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but the reality is that hardening the system will take years. Should hardening the system be done? Absolutely. But given the conditions right this minute in California, the power should be shut down in high risk areas. The costs of the fires last year were massive as well. Hopefully this pain will get all the parties to focus on solutions that we can begin to implement.
2
Will this be the moment when Californians beg for rate increases that PG&E wanted all along so that the transmissions lines can be buried underground (as they probably should have been in the first place)?
3
@Marie
Californians who have informed themselves about PG&E's deplorable practices over the years, will beg to have the company's board and upper level management dismissed and the 'utility' taken over.
6
Cut power to hundreds of thousands and incite public rage? Or keep power and be liable to billions of dollars in damage should the equipment start a fire?
Tough decision. Also, that's why top management has to be paid top dollars, otherwise no one wants to make that decision.
This is like playing an erroneously designed sudoku, where there's no way to make the numbers work. The only solution is to fix the whole system.
6
@William Fang
It obviously doesn’t matter what they do. The humidity is near zero and we have winds on the peaks above 30 mph and down swells as it crests the mountains. The territory is covered in trees several hundred feet tall, dry grasses and there is fall leaves on the ground.
We have a red flag warning. To not shut off the power would be a liability. They have no real alternative. We are having longer dryer summers with zero humidity winds.
Stop complaining. There is no answer or solution. It isn’t that infrastructure fails. It’s that in dry wind and overhead lines can create sparks as debris fall across them or push the into each other. What used to be a wet climate is now heading towards desertification.
A longtime California resident who's seen these wildfires up close, I'm writing this from an area currently affected by the power outage:
California needs a massive infrastructure project to underground existing electrical lines. However, it would cost tens of billions. Who will pay? Small-scale undergrounding in areas I've lived in has been a split cost between homeowners and the city but cities are reluctant to take this significant expense on. It needs to be a statewide initiative that has the full support of the state gov't and taxpayers.
Meanwhile, I am seeing massive complaining on social media and neighborhood sites about this power outage, including from many people who actually think PG&E should wait until the minute the "bad wind" starts right by their home. God forbid they should be inconvenienced for a few extra hours to be sure things are safe.
I can only assume they did not live through any of the previous devastating fires as I and many other Californians have. If they had, they would understand that as massively inconvenient as this outage is, a huge conflagration is far more inconvenient. Not to mention lethal. And these are the same people who would be the first to complain AFTER such a fire that PG&E and others didn't do enough to prevent it.
And this is the kind of mentality that the state is up against in trying to deal with this enormous problem.
19
@Nelle Engoron Kill the useless high speed train program and invest those dollars in improving the safety of the state’s electric grid.
5
I'm guessing this massive shutdown is driven mostly by PGE's lawyers, wanting to avoid any more liability for fires attributable to their outside plant -- cable, wires, transformers.
For this, they cause millions of dollars of damage in delays, closed schools and public services, dangerous intersections.
I hope they get sued by some of the businesses and jurisdictions disrupted by their overly zealous preemptive shutdowns.
26
90% of wildfires are caused by human carelessness or stupidity--live cigarette butt6s, out-of-control campfires, etc. 10% are caused by downed power lines. Utilities are held liable for the fires caused by their lines. Those liabilities are particularly high when people die. Because dozens of deaths have been caused by downed power lines, PG&E is teetering and is effectively passing on the costs to hundreds of thousands of its customers.
Most of the victims of power line wildfires have been elderly and/or disabled and unable to get out of harms way. It seems obvious to me that evacuating several hundred vulnerable elderly and disabled makes a lot more sense than cutting power to hundreds of thousands.
4
The wind speed is at present 12 mph for most of Sonoma County and Contra Costa County and 10 mph in Santa Clara County. It is 25 mph in Solano County.
By any standard, this is no way to run a utility.
22
People laughing at Tesla owners who have no electricity should contemplate gas stations can’t pump gas without electricity. The only people who are sitting pretty are those with solar panels on their roofs.
9
@Lisa
Many solar installations shut down when utility power is off; the reason, they would be putting power into lines that utility workers may be repairing. Only solar and wind installations with no connection to the grid at all, can operate when power is out.
Standby generators normally have an automatic transfer switch, so the generator is not used until there is no utility power, and turns off when it is detected again.
Since solar installations often provide more power than is needed for the house, there needs to be a way to either store the excess capacity or "dump" it. One would think solar installers would provide for this contingency, but most seem not to.
9
@Lisa Hi
People should realize that solar panels equipment will be necessary in the next future, if not now, and do'nt rely on power grid.
1
O.K. folks - there are a lot of people who are saying PG&E needs to upgrade and more to prevent fires and and and.
See, here's the thing - rates are set by the PUC. It is going to cost money to do all of the improvements but who is going to pay for it? It is not at all clear that public vs private utilities differ greatly in cost.
Nobody wants any rate increases but that is up to your PUC to decide. No money - no large scale restructuring. Perhaps in their zeal to protect the customer from the evil corporation, they have low balled the rates.
4
@uwteacher -- but we've ALREADY BEEN PAYING for these upgrades. The utilities just find ways to divert funds. Every time there's an emergency like this, it's back to the well to ask for more rate increases.
Here's an idea: cut dividends and use the money to make capital improvements. Why are you paying your capital providers dividends when you haven't properly budgeted for infrastructure improvements?
Here's another idea: have the PUC actually hold the utilities accountable for using proceeds of bond sales to pay for infrastructure improvements.
1
@uwteacher Hold the rates; issue more stock to pay for the essential upgrades. Thus passing the cost to the company’s owners and not to the consumers who are in no way responsible for PG&E’s poor maintenance and lack of technology upgrades.
All utilities must be run by 'the people'. Electricity is part of 'the commons', meaning, since every one needs it and a homeowner cannot 'shop' for an electric company (because only one set of wires enter ones home). Company executives and stockholders have no right to profit from a required service.
Other utilities include natural gas, garbage pickup, water, healthcare, and others. They all must be run by public municipalities.
16
@Mark
Agreed!
Our family has had good service over 50 years with the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. Even with an occasional scandal that all institutions seem to have with over a century of service, all profits have gone back into the department and to customers. We get conservation freebies and hefty rebates for solar, electric cars, low-water landscaping, low-flow toilets/washers and more.
With PG&E declaring bankruptcy, it’s a perfect opportunity for the state to take it over, kick out the capitalistic leaches, and remodel the company more toward the model of LADWP. I really wish the legislature was even more progressive in its policy solutions than it currently is. Still too many poorer red counties to the east and far north along with the increasingly greedy billionaires of Silicon Valley for that too happen.
3
@Mark
And are those "the people" willing to pay the tax rate that will make all of this "the people" ownership available?
If they complain about their tax rate now, just wait until they own everything.
Not so long ago, I thought that such power outages happened only in countries like Venezuela. It now looks like the US is increasingly joining the ranks of the third world, at least when it comes to the quality and reliability of its infrastructure. In turn this affects everything from the ability to conduct business in a predictable fashion, to the daily lives of ordinary citizens. If things do not change for the better, drastically and very soon, our country is going to sink very fast.
15
Here we have another, horrible, example of a corporate action causing more and more angst to say the least to the citizens of a state, over at least 1 million and going up with both large electric utilities. It was PE&E in the north and in some cases Edison in the south for the fires but customers are punished, not the CORPORATIONS. This is what a Corporate State is like. Tragic to say the least. Horrible is most.
8
Cutting power to this many homes creates its own hazards. It remains to be seen how many deaths will result among the elderly and disabled, who need electricity for their own safety.
In addition, most wildfires are not caused by power lines; it's campfires, cigarettes, lightning strikes, etc. All are now officially the fault of PG&E.
8
It's absolutely ridiculous that it should have come to this in what's now the world's 5th largest economy. The state Public Utilities Commission and our legislators have completely failed in their oversight of PG&E. Shareholder profit and executive bonuses have taken precedence over infrastructure maintenance and public safety for years—far too long.
57
@MJ You don't understand the utility business model. PG&E would have loved to put a whole bunch of capital into their rate base to collect a return, but typically these requests are cut by the PUC. It's true that management did an abominable job making the case for big investment in maintenance and upgrades, but people also didn't want to pay for it in rates, so here we are.
1
As of this writing (11AM on 10/9), PG&E's website is down. It's been down all morning.
6
Anything to avoid wild fires should be welcomed. The golden state seems more and more a state to move out off and fast
4
@Girish Kotwal
Says a McConnell supporter I presume?
2
Great time to go offgrid!
Don't forget to build properly in your risk area. Concrete is still nice!
3
@Cleareye
I saw glass melted after the fires that blew through last time. It had to be near 4000 degrees and moving at 30mph. Nothing will survive it unless you have a massive defensive space.
2
People should have liberty to reside where they want to but they should be cognizant of dangers, and not hold their government or utility responsible for underwriting those risks. People build houses in flood zones year after year, and then they want FEMA to cover the cost year after year. Same is happening for the localities close to highly wooded, fire prone areas. Many are also the same people who fight paying taxes or high cost of getting electric power to their homes. Many people, especially in the South Central US seaboard, also deny global warming. They cannot have it both ways. If you choose to live in danger prone areas, you have to take some risk on and not perpetually blame the government or utility. If PG&E does not shut off the power and homes catch fire these people will be the first one to sue their local utility. Putting electric wires underground cost $3 million per mile compared to $500,000 per mile for overhead wires that can fall down during a storm. But underground wires are expensive to fix in case of floods or earthquake. Life is calculated risk. (I do not work for utility or government).
22
I left the Bay Area (San Francisco/Berkeley) in 2002 and only go back for family reunions and visiting friends, but all my family and friends still live in the Bay Area: San Francisco, Daly City, Oakland, Richmond, Castro Valley, Danville, Vacaville, Alameda, Concord, Fremont, Modesto, Sacramento, Sausalito, literally, all over Northern California. According to my sister, shutoffs were from 12am to 4 am, and are again scheduled to happen from 12 pm to 5 pm. Still trying to figure out what's happening. PG&E was never a problem for me, but ConEd in Westchester county? Don't get me started.
1
Can't have a thriving tech based economy with no power.
6
I doubt they turned off the power in Palo Alto.
5
In case you don’t yet get it, Californians are being punished by PG&E. The current power outages are that company's retaliation for being found responsible for recent deadly firestorms. Now they will have more blood on their hands.
Electric power is not just another commodity, subject to the whims and machinations of the market. Time and again, PG&E have placed their stockholders’ interests ahead of California residents, who have no recourse. With climate change looming, now is the time for the people of California to take back control of electric power generation and distribution.
150
@John Techwriter I agree. I have 40 acres that burned during the Thomas fire due to Con Edison working with a live line on the ground (if local reports are to be believed). Now they want us to pay for their sloppy practices. Hoping by turning off the lights in Silicon Valley, this will expedite the advancement for off-the-grid solar, leaving them in even deeper financial trouble.
13
@John Techwriter I agree. I have 40 acres that burned during the Thomas fire due to SoCal Edison working with a live line on the ground (if local reports are to be believed). Now they want us to pay for their sloppy practices. Hoping by turning off the lights in Silicon Valley, this will expedite the advancement for off-the-grid solar, leaving them in even deeper financial trouble.
1
@John Techwriter I agree. I have 40 acres that burned during the Thomas fire due to SoCal Edison working with a live line on the ground (if local reports are to be believed). Now they want us to pay for their sloppy practices as they are also threatening to turn off power in high wind. Hoping by turning off the lights in Silicon Valley, this will expedite the advancement for off-the-grid solar, leaving them in even deeper financial trouble.
1
in a clinical fashion this is quite interesting - an overt admission that the acceptable level-of-risk for the normal distribution of electricity is now is now vying for the 1-in-a-1000-year: forest fire hurricane flood etc etc & etc
1
A hard decision made because of the hard reality of climate change.
Such extraordinary measures will become more frequent and will spread to locations across the United States and the world as climate change alters the landscape of our country and the world.
Prepare yourselves as best you can and be aware that what you thought couldn't possibly happen can, and in many cases will happen to you no matter where you live in America.
8
So glad this is finally happening. My aunt and uncle lost their house in a wildfire, one of my close neighbors lost everything in one and simply left, half of our street burned down, my parents were evacuated for a week and lived on pins and needles waiting to hear whether their home was gone, smoke thick and unhealthy for days every time this happens, one friend in Lake County evacuated 3 times in 3 years, that feeling when you see plumes and a line of fire coming up and over the mountain at you... Shut off the power if it saves a single house, a single life.
8
So in one of the wealthiest states in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, this is what we are faced with: shut off the power or risk having your house burn down.
PG&E is a corrupt, inefficient and horribly run bureaucratic mess. It needs to be broken up and the power grid taken over and maintained by regional power authorities.
Imagine if Bell Telephone had not been broken up in 1982. I wonder what (or even if) kind of cell service we would have today and at what prices?
119
@lb
best post.
6
@calleefornia Thanks!
Batteries such as the one that today won the Nobel Prize for chemistry can come to rescue along with the solar phototoxic cells which are now common in California and cheap enough. Married to the batteries such as the one used in electric cars, these batteries provide an excellent back up for few hours. For longer duration if you use it only for critical appliances such as refrigerators, medical devices, phone charging etc. Both solar cells and batteries are subsidized by California government to the tune of several hundred million dollars. Money has been directed to bring community level backups at fire stations, schools and other critical infrastructures. Batteries get charged when sun rises the next day. One can also sue small wind mills that produce more power on windy days. Today’s Nobel Prize in chemistry is well deserved as it provides a low price, cheaper solution for overcoming challenges presented by the mass scale blackout PG&E is planning to avoid fire danger. People can now be their own mini utility that is self-sufficient for a few days when PG&E power shuts off.
6
This is crazy. Large condo apartment buildings with elderly residents are cutting off power (to their elevators! to their water pumps for residents on 6th floor up). These are apartment buildings in dense residential areas. Gov. Newsome should be impeached for allowing this to happen. Cutting off water and electricity to the eldery because of something that *might* happen is senseless.
15
@JoJoCity Gov. Gray Davis was recalled from office because of Enron's blackouts in the early 2000's. The law that allowed Enron to churn California's electric utilities was promoted and signed into law by his predecessor, Gov. Pete Wilson. He was forgotten and nothing happened to him. Gov. Davis was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
4
Maybe they should think about upgrading their power system and install underground power cables. There are no power lines above the ground in the street I live in, in New Zealand.
I also have a 'Smart Metre' that is on the side of the house and beams my power use to the power company. No need for metre men to read the power monthly. I live in a working class suburb and a cheap side of Christchurch home.
Also, there are lots of solar power lanterns and lights you can buy at hardware shops and shops that sell camping equipment. Stock up - there are also solar power battery rechargers you can buy for cell phones. This is a great time for the media to write articles on where to buy all your solar power appliances.
30
If you don’t live here you have no idea how incompetent PG&E is! They are sending out robo calls providing a code that customers can — ostensibly — enter on a PG&E web page, to find out whether they will lose power, and when. Every time I try to access the page, I either get what seems to be a hijacked page (my browser advises that I close it because my personal information might be stolen), or I get a “cannot connect to server,” or I get a PG&E page that has no place for the code and no link to a page that might have one. I am stumped. I am on the list of regions to be affected, though, so I expect my power to go out. I have a generator, and can pump my well water. I am staying home until the chaos stops. I have a box of chocolate chip cookies, so I’m good.
Adding to this circus of desperation on PG&E’s part, the company (Davey Tree) that does their tree maintenance around power lines turned up this morning to finish some tree clearing on my property (I have a PG&E easement). They started that job and abandoned it back in late Spring. The guys have a checklist of unfinished jobs in my neighborhood. And they are doing this at the very last second?
The world is falling into anarchy. I am starting to feel frightened.
76
The country is falling into something worse than anarchy—all our commons (water, air, health care, roads, education, electricity, etc) have fall into the hands of capitalists who monopolize the services and hold us hostage. Profit is their raison d’être, not provision of services.
10
@Passion for Peaches I’m in the Bay Area, too. I feel like I’m bracing for The Purge: Power Outage.
2
Would like to add that the work PG&E’s tree guys are catching up on, at the last minute, is work I had to beg PG&E to do in the first place. The tree crews missed my property this year! In January of February I received the usual notice that PG&E would be maintaining trees under the owner lines on my property. They never showed up, so a few months later I contacted PG&E to get someone up here. They sent a crew, and those guys did some of the work, but then they disappeared for some reason. And here they are today, finishing the job. And PG&E blames property owners for keeping them from maintaining clearance around the lines!
2
Here in the Calaveras and Amador counties in the Sierra foothills where PG&E began shutting off power at midnight more and more people have been going off grid with full solar for power and propane for cooking and heating.
Am sure this situation of power being shut off to near one MILLION people will make even more people cut ties with PG&E!
The question remains, will more cities create yjeir own power companies, and/or will the state succumb to what I call economic blackmail and bail PG&E out of their multi billion dollar mess? I pray not!!
16
Finally something proactive.
3
PG&E is liable for starting the terrible fires last summer, but they should not be liable for the fact that the fires consumed entire towns. These areas were tinderboxes and absolutely anything could have set them off.
Now, the rest of us in CA are paying the price for poor fire prevention in these communities.
What if the fires last summer had been started by lightning or by some other entity that did not have deep pockets? The fires would have been just as severe, but there would not be a faceless corporation to blame.
1) PG&E should work to prevent ignition.
2) Communities in high fire danger areas need to greatly improve their ability to contain fires and preserve property.
22
PG&E should stop punishing customers and upgrade their equipment to ensure none of it explodes and sparks wildfires. The onus should be on them, however, and they’ve shifted it onto the consumers. We’re all a bit uncertain about power over the next few days, with mixed-messages, incomprehensible maps, and lack of clear explanations on when these outages may occur. PG&E continues to fall upwards.
26
@Dan
Inverse condemnation says that they are liable even if their facilities are within or beyond code. Meaning they can update but it doesn’t matter as they are still liable not matter how new the facilities are.
"The East Bay Municipal Utility District, a water utility, said its pumping capacity would be affected by the shut-off and urged its customers to minimize water use and turn off their irrigation systems."
You have to wonder why California still blatantly wastes water with irrigation systems when they have had extreme droughts and will continue to in the future. I lived in Marin County in 1977 during a drought that lasted 10 months with severe water rationing. They should be learning to ration water now.
8
@Jacquie
It is a fictional show but the latest season of Goliath with Billy Bob Thorton shows an area where the almond farmers and ranchers have formed their own illegal cooperative for the local water and basically anyone else living there has no water at all.
With the amount of almond products now available for vegans and those just off dairy, there is a good chance that water wars will occur in CA earlier rather than later.
And why does no one talk about the environmental implications of this almond production like they do cows and red meat.
1
@Jacquie 80% of available water in CA is used by industrial ag. Much of what's grown, almonds, alfalfa, is shipped not just out of state, but out of the country. CA is exporting water in the form of ag products. Additionally big ag is a huge if not the biggest polluter of water in the state. The ground in the central valley is sinking because big ag is pulling water out of the aquifer to the point that the aquifer is collapsed and cannot be restored.
Households area a relatively small part of water use. And asking people to conserve as individuals is ineffective. Only policy will make the needed change.
Most of the world experiences high winds and low humidity in areas with heavy vegetation. The difference here, especially in California, is that we build houses out of lumber and formaldehyde laced plywood/OSB. Many who did not die from fire are ill from formaldehyde poisoning, which is 100x worse when inhaled. Our media never reports these facts, and devastated towns usually rebuild with wood. It’s cheaper.
17
@Mike Roddy
And, in California, fire departments are not a government responsibility, like police and schools are. Look it up!
2
I am all for the shutdown. Property loss aside, the air quality caused by wildfires is intolerable and poses a serious health risk. The utilities need to be undergrounded. PG&E needs to be broken up. Electricity should not be controlled by a privately held company. Our electric rates are so high, and for what?
19
Ask the former people of Paradise if a few days without power would have been preferable to what they experienced, or the 5000 who lost their homes in Santa Rosa in 2007. Maybe a false choice presented by PG&E but while they work on their infrastructure, this seems like a reasonable thing to do.
11
@Perfect Commenter writes "while they work on their infrastructure, this seems like a reasonable thing to do."
Ummm, do you have any idea how many years they estimate it will take to "work on their infrastructure" ??? And how many years they have already had to do it. The company needs to be replaced by something better.
6
Perhaps, but the scale of destruction and loss of human life in both Santa Rosa and Paradise was unprecedented. It’s easy to Monday morning Qb them now, but if they had proposed billions in wildfire prevention infrastructure upgrades in 2005, customers would have been outraged about footing the bill for some backwoods cabins.
@Perfect Commenter: People have been complaining about PG&E's lack of tree trimming, for example, for as long as I can remember (and I've lived in California all of my life, 60+ years), whether it was because of winter storms downing lines or now the "Diablo" winds.
Instead they've focused on shareholder returns and corporate bonuses rather than infrastructure improvements, all with the blessing of the state Public Utilities Commission and other government officials, elected and appointed.
1
A few years ago, there was a specific rate increase for infrastructure maintenance and upgrades. PG&E management instead spent the ratepayer dollars on shareholder dividends and management bonuses. Yet no one went to jail for this criminal diversion.
72
This rapacious private company, thoroughly protected by both political parties, is only part of the problem. There is a larger elephant in the room, and a much more frightening one. Climate catastrophe is well underway. The effects of heedless development in wild areas, the astounding automobile traffic, the drought and air pollution that result...what do we expect? A new normal is here. I share Greta's sense of panic, and I can't understand why anyone wouldn't.
23
As a resident of northern California... I see this as very much a double edged sword and a no win for PG&E
Reason: their power distribution system is virtually all above ground high voltage power lines which are vulnerable to damage due to wind. Such damage often results in live wires falling into combustible brush and trees... hence.... you get fires sometimes like the giant tragedies in the last couple of years. As such.. the only recourse they have in high wind conditions is to monitor their lines and begin shutting them down if they exceed safe stress limits.... BEFORE a fire starts. Once a fire is started in high wind conditions during dry high risk fire conditions...... it is impossible to contain.. and people die.. sometimes lots of people die.
Of course those of us in urban centers... far from the distribution lines have little sympathy and feel indignant at being forced to be without power. Simply put... self centered people do not care about the larger need for safety during high fire hazard and wind conditions.
Impact: Residents in northern California are powerless (no punn intended) to do anything about this... they simply have to sit and take it.
Solution? There is none. Taking over PG&E by the state cannot change the fire safety equation... and may even make it worse. It is cost prohibitive to move all the power distribution in outlying areas where there is fire hazard to undergound lines. That would literally cost many 10s of billions.
7
PG&E is a monopoly, and they have been playing (and winning) a long game. Any coverage of this story needs to reference the huge salaries + bonuses their executives pull in, as well as the very blurry line between the CPUC/PUC (supposed oversight) and the company. Many former oversight folks go on to make big bucks at PG&E.
We need to have one grid for all, and we need public utilities that are not beholden to well-to-do shareholders and run by millionaires.
48
And, a lot more than that are without power as a result of the last election!
2
We need to invest a massive amount of money to bury the power lines underground, all across the at-risk areas. We cannot use this approach year after year to avoid wildfires by chance. California needs to come up with a better solution, and it might take serious funding from us taxpayers to do this. Hopefully the wealthy residents of the Berkeley hills, Orinda, Piedmont, Woodside, Los Altos Hills, Tiburon, and Marin County will not mind chipping in.
7
Interesting...
4 of the 17 national DoE laboratories sited in CA...
https://www.energy.gov/science/science-innovation/office-science-national-laboratories
If any one of them had been doing what they should have been doing to advance the cause of SMR’s (inherently-safe small modular reactors) over the past two decades, CA’s 50 GW peak draw would be getting satisfied by about 500 100 MWe SMRs...
(yes, I know that's not SLAC's day-job)
And, because of the locality, most of the HV distribution grid wouldn’t even be needed...
6
At 8 this morning there was no wind, and the high temps this week are 10-20 degrees below recent heat waves. Bankrupt PGE is trying to throw its weight around to get ratepayer concessions. "Nice big economy you have here. Sure would be a shame if the capital of electronics had no electricity for a week." This extortion should redouble our efforts to find alternatives to this irresponsible corporate monster. Go off-grid? Jail the directors and management?
35
The de-regulation of the 90s plays a huge part in this. PG&E stopped removing tree, brush from power lines, causing the problem.
10
@kgj
So they should clear cut 200’ trees that can fall into lines through redwood and pine forests?
Gavin Newsom has to go...we can’t take him much longer!
3
@Charlie Did he order PG&E to turn off the power?
7
@Charlie He said we should all be infuriated, guess you missed it.
1
I am one of those 500,000 without power. In one way, and although it is an inconvenience, it is a sacrifice well worth it. I witnessed entire neighborhoods devastated two years’ ago during the Tubb’s fire. We still grieve the lives lost. That being said, I remain suspicious of both the CA PUC and PG&E. They exercise too much control over our pocketbooks. Mark my word, we consumers will pay for PG&E’s neglect. And let there be no doubt that there is something to be said for solar and wind energy.
18
@Kathy Lollock, it is more than a little inconvenience. In the brief moment that I was able to access a PG&E web page on the outages, I saw how many “medical baseline” customers were being affected in each country and region. There are thousands. That group can include people on breathing support, and other critically important equipment. There are elderly who have no one to help them. People are freaking out over the lack of traffic lights, so there will be accidents. Businesses are losing revenue because they have to close up shop. All of this because PG&E let their infrastructure decline to the point that it is a danger to the populace. Shame on them.
18
So, when it gets windy, the state with the worlds fifth largest economy and who that claims they will be getting most of their energy from renewable sources... is going to turn off the electricity?
California, claims that they already gets a large percentage of their electricity from renewable sources, yet they pay some of the highest rates in the country?
Despite paying high rates (19.9 C per Kwh average) their infrastructure hasn't been maintained - and which a large percentage of blame can be placed at the feet of environmentalists?
California is going to be a leader in the energy field for the rest of the country and world?
(Hmm, Hawaii, which has a lot of renewable energy is paying 32.76 C per Kwh... sounds like the claims that renewable energy is SO CHEAP.... is a bit exaggerated!)
California wants renewable energy? They want to sue the electric company's that supply their energy? They want to tell the rest of us how to run our lives?
1
@The Critic
The source of the electricity isn't what causes fires. Electricity is electricity. You still need wires to get it where it needs to go. So, what is your point?
6
@The Critic you obviously don't know a) we are a state with 30+ million people, and b) it will take years before people will have access to 100% renewable energy.
NOwhere does California claim to get a large percentage of our electricity from renewable sources. You also don't seem to grasp the fact that PG&E (Pacific Gas and Electric) is NOT a state owned company, And more like a monopoly which even the Federal government has allowed.
As to Hawaii a state with a total population of around 1 million (like San Francisco) is generating about 22 percent of their electricity from wind, solar, geothermal and other renewable energy and still makes it hard for individuals to be off grid!
2
@The Critic
I read your comment and had my doubts, so I did some checking and found out that you are correct!
Currently, California gets over 33% of the energy from renewable sources and are mandated that it be 50% by 2030.
Yet, they can't keep their lights on and have some of the highest rates in the nation!
Not once did you mention anything about fires, yet the guy from Shreveport implied that you did.
As far as what BGD said, not sure where she is getting her numbers because it is obvious she doesn't have a clue!
Keep up the good work - at least you know what you're talking about!
1
Climate Change. Coming to a city near you.
13
@PC - Good. I'm already tired of the rain and we are just getting started for our winter rainy season (not to be confused with our summer rainy season).
The Friedman Doctrine at work... Customers be damned and neglected.
Remember, PG&E had 2 years to remediate risks after the Santa Rosa fire but didnt...
The Friedman Doctrine, or Shareholder Theory, is a normative theory of business ethics advanced by economist Milton Friedman which holds that a firm's main responsibility is to its shareholders.
28
@The Scarcity of Park Slope Parking Spots thank you so much for explaining the Friedman Theory....PG&E has so much blood on its hands. Hopefully this will push people to purchase solar generators.
4
@The Scarcity of Park Slope Parking Spots
The best way to remediate is to underground the equipment. That's cost prohibitive. Utilities should be operated as public agencies, not private companies. Look at the bonuses PG&E has paid to its current and past officials. That money should have gone into infrastucture.
10
This is an outrage.
For decades, Pacific Gas and Electric Company failed to invest in its aging infrastructure. 30% of their high transmission lines were built between 1900 and 1910 (!) and the other 60% were constructed between 1920 and 1950. According to a July 2019 Wall Street Journal article, "PG&E has known for years that hundreds of miles of high-voltage power lines could fail and spark fires, yet it repeatedly failed to perform the necessary upgrades.”
These PG&E so-called public safety shutoffs are creating incalculable hardship, especially for the elderly. Schools and businesses have had to close while literally tons of unrefrigerated food is rotting away.
While PG&E is legally liable for damage from fires caused by transmission lines, it is not liable for costs incurred by businesses and customers when power is shut off. If PG&E were required to pay for losses occurred during these power shut-offs, they most likely would not be doing them.
How can this (bankrupt) utility's actions be acceptable?
340
@Cassandra G. I totally agree wirh you...but they have to green light these outages to protect us and the environment. BUT if they were held accountable for the loss of revenue businesses will incur during shutoffs they would be way more proactive in resolving the issue of the outdated and hazardous lines. Incredulous abuse of power & privilege...it is an outrage. At the least they should have supplied mini generators for its customers...some people are using ventilators, dialysis machines, nebulizers, nicu equipment, etc to survive.
19
@Cassandra G. And I am rather surprised the author doesn't mention the lack of investment in infrastructure while handing profits over to shareholders.
48
@D I assume you are pointing a finger at our Democratic governor and majority Democratic legislative branch. But that is a recent development. We have had more evenly divided state government in the past and several Republican governors (Reagan, Deukmajian, Schwarznegger) and none of them ever did anything proactive with PG&E either. Not to mention Gray Davis (D) who was recalled and replaced by Schwarznegger due almost entirely to illegal energy market manipulation by the criminal enterprise known as Enron.
21
The cost of providing power to rural parts of the state should include putting the power lines underground and out of harm's way. Some may want to use this as an excuse to disrespect the state with the most powerful economy, greatest public university system, and absolute stunning scenery from mountains, deserts, farm valleys and the ocean. They are just wrong. California with the lights out is even better.
11
No comments yet about people choosing to live in areas of wild fire danger. San Francisco and other dense cities have largely paved over the vegetation, so wildfire risk is minimal.
Suburbs have some risk, as grasslands and tree stands still exist and can be fuel.
But the sparsely populated areas, whether around Lake Tahoe or within the forests, have the highest risk and are not prepared. Building roads, power lines, and other utilities to serve these communities is much more expensive. And FEMA or the State paying to rebuild the houses after a fire makes the loss socialized.
Its fine to want to live on the beach or in the forest, but one should assume the risks of that choice.
10
@James These are metropolitan areas, so maybe you shouldn't judge if you don't know what you are talking about. PG&E sends all of it's profit to it's parent company out of state and then declares bankruptcy to avoid paying for their lack of investment. They are trying to raise rates 4X what they are now to cover their costs from the fire. Why should the customers have to pay for their mistakes?
11
@James
Ever heard of the Oakland Hills fires? Oakland is an urban area that is surrounded by hillsides covered in vegetation. So is Berkeley and the rest of the East Bay. This effects people living in urban areas, not just rural and wilderness areas.
5
PG&E is a publicly-traded company. There's your problem. Increased profits are more important than the needs of a captive customer pool.
The state regulators prevent market-based power fees, so increased "efficiency" is achieved through evermore inadequate maintenance. (Regulators are supposed to be on top of that, too. But I don't doubt some cozy relationships in Sacramento have led to lax oversight.) Looks great on the balance sheets, year after year.
But then the chickens came home to roost in Santa Rosa and Paradise. Now, the company is exposed to endless lawsuits, wiping out the company's business model.
Late capitalism, California-style.
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@Len Arends Exactly. I live in California for 25 years before moving. They are extremely crooked and should have been forced into receivership years ago when their gas lines blew up in San Bruno and killed many people.
44
This is the result of years of neglect by PGE. Instead of maintaining lines and removing vegetation they chose profit. I was in the Camp Fire and lost everything. I understand why power is going off in high wind areas. Had this company done what was prudent this mess would not be happening. The lobbying money PGE used to bend politicos could have been put into maintenance.
I now live in a Northern California county that has a public utility that actively maintains their lines. There is no shut off here.
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@Llewis
Private companies are owned by shareholders and demand huge profits. This is expensive for their customers.
Public companies do not need profits, but they have public workers who work less hard, have huge benefits, and cannot be fired for anything less than child abuse. They cannot be fired for mediocre productivity. This is expensive for their customers.
5
@Llewis
Amen. Glad you are safe today.
5
@Will Hogan I am truly curious to know if indeed public workers work less hard than workers in the private sector or if that is simply a leftover notion from the Reagan propaganda machine.
23
It is way past time for the state to take over PG&E and make it a true public utility rather than a for profit business that is beholden to its shareholders rather than their captive customers.
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@David White
We need to push that thought to CA state legislators and Governor Newsom.
8
@David White. Government Bureaucrats taking over utilities. Hmmm, that sounds like Venezuela taking over its oil and gas industry and we know how that turned out! I don’t follow CA local politics, but I bet PG&E has a very different view and that it may be documented by years of CA regulators prohibiting rate increases needed to pay for upgrades.
2
This! I can’t understand why our feckless politicians allow us to be cast into the dark like we live in some third world wasteland. I remember what happened to the last governor who allowed blackouts to torment the state. He was recalled. Be careful Gavin.
2
Wow...
Thought that for energy production, distribution, and efficiency - CA going to show the rest of the country how it's done...
2
The electric grid infrastructure needs to be underground.
22
welcome to our future.
2
@teoc2
Yes. You can now add another to California's future. They already have earthquakes, landslides, wildfires and water shortages. Now you can power outages.
@Don Wiss
tornadoes, too.
So instead of fixing the problem PG&E will just put everybody in the dark, glad I don't work for them any more.
25
@BTO
They are held liable if it is fixed, updated and even if they followed all safety rules and procedures.
Welcome to the Third World! Goodbye California, it ain’t my fault!
5
This could all be avoided if the government would let lumber companies clear 100 meters of trees every 5 miles so you could contain the fires in 5 square mile blocks, and we could benefit from low cost wood and we could save the forests at the same time.. but common sense is too much to ask... any tree cut down is one too much for eco extremists whose policies end up hurting the very thing they are trying to protect
2
It’s not trees, but brush; companies do not want those trees; and some of the fires start in urban areas or near highways; but by all means blame your pet bete noire. Everyone else is.
18
@noel "Eco-extremists" - if they were so extreme their policies would not be adopted and implemented by governments. Protecting growing things at all costs after decades of clear cut selling of those things to for profits is a policy the people of CA agree to.
CA has worked hard to protect forests and wilderness areas which allow people the world over to see some form of "untouched" wildlife.
4
@noel
for some one living in No.California, it's surprising that Noel appears to be unaware that 100 meter firebreaks would be largely ineffective in stopping the spread of such wind-driven fires as ravaged the region ( as well as Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia ) in recent years.
4
I still don't understand how cutting off power to 1/2 million people reduces the risk of wildfires?
3
@RPM If power lines are not 'live' then when winds knocks down those lines into super dry grasslands/scrubby underbrush, sparks ignite tiny flames. Given the abundance of dried materials and the wind energy, a few tiny flickers can grow into a conflagration that covers miles of land in several hours. Poor maintenance means that PG&E has no idea of the condition of their power lines, has not been scrupulous about removal of trees/brushes, and that transformers and other equipment are not necessarily in good condition. Once power surges in the system, weaker links give way.
9
@RPM....Winds can down limbs, which can fall on powerlines, which if live, will cause sparking. Given dry windy conditions and the build up of dry fuel in these forests...
3
@RPM power is generated many miles away, often by hydroelectric dams. The power lines for transmitting the electricity to urban areas crosses dried up forests and grasslands. As previous posters have mentioned, if the lines are downed or cross each other by the wind, fires are likely to start.
1
This is nothing more than blackmail and punishment for utilities being held accountable for their malpractice. They have had 3/4 of a century to work out making their transmission lines safe. There is no justifiable reason for these companies not to have made their equipment safe in all weathers.
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@Douglas Oliver,
Unless you take account the legal fiduciary responsibility of corporations to shareholders. The crisis is unregulated capitalism. But you are still on point and we don't believe shareholders would have objected to the extra cost of safety and reliability.
14
This is what happens when you transfer public infrastructure to a profit motivated corporation. There should have been a 30 bond to sink the lines decades ago.
104
Northern Californian here.
PG&E electric rates are high. Maybe if they spent more of our consumer rate-paying dollars on keeping their equipment updated and safe, and vegetation safely away from power lines -- instead of $$$ into investor profits and generous bonuses for executives -- we could avoid these power cuts affecting hundreds of thousands of people.
And -- right now -- there is not even one breath of wind. Total calm. But 500,000 are without electricity. Go figure.
133
@The Alamo Kid - Interesting. I can't help but notice from a distance that PG&E seems to be going bankrupt due to fire claims so I have to wonder if the shutdown is really due to fire threat or a sinking ship? People are saying the website is down? Never a good sign when a company can't keep a website up.
5
@tom harrison
Web site is simply over loaded with traffic... not "down". Not unlike federal websites when something of interest to millions suddenly starts getting inundated with traffic.
I am able to get to it fine.. it just may take more then a minute to clear through the busy loading on the site at the moment.
2
@The Alamo Kid
People like you need a reality check.
The issue is high winds in the foothills and lower mountain areas of California... where there are in fact a lot of power utility lines. Just because it is not windy at your personal residence does not mean the power grid that feeds it is also not in a "category red" wind hazard area (as reported by the weather services).
3
Here's a great arguement for building net-zero buildings with islanding capacity.
In California, many of these homes wouldn't even need to be tied to the electrical grid if designed properly.
10
As Americans complain of taxation and federal governance, they have slipped into a dangerous misunderstanding of what keeps our lives civilized. The quality of life in our modern democractic society utterly depends on public oversight, infrastructure investment and sound regulation.
Turing off power, reducing a part of California to a third world country...for days...is a pragmatic short term solution to the risk of wild fires. But putting power lines under ground could have been a better public investment years ago. Climate change and foolish development into wooded areas have also contributed to fire risk.
It is time for long term public policy.
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@Sara
Nice someone mentions the great American Taxation Allergy. ATA, I could coin it now :)
2
@Daniel -- why should people be taxed for this?
We're already PAYING the power companies to provide power and to maintain/upgrade their infrastructure. And yet every time there's a disaster, they use it as a excuse to push rate hikes through for funding for capital improvements that somehow never seem to happen.
We've allowed these for-profit companies, which have been given monopolies in part to offset the cost of keeping the infrastructure up to date, to rip us off for years.
Every time there's going to be a storm, we get a call from our power company: "You're listed as a well water customer and your power might go out and we can't guarantee how quickly we can restore it. So stock up on water."
Here's an idea First Energy: update your infrastructure. Don't provide power using wooden poles that you replace only when they are torn down. When roads are torn up for other projects, bury the power lines.
This shouldn't be rocket science.
4
You cannot expect to live within the trees in California, have electrical power, and then make PG+E liable for fires.
It is not rational. Since fires caused by PG+E lines are still uncommon, maybe the California government should assume the liability. And then, the government can act like a typcial insurer and have specific requirements of the insured in order to be covered. In this case it would be to prohibit automatic restart of tripped lines, etc. Calif made a big mistake when they made PG+E liable for the fires. Californians love living in the forest with electricity. But the two are basically incompatible.
4
@Will Hogan The vast majority of us who have or will lose power don't live in the forest or even lightly wooded areas. PG&E is doing this solely because they can and to reduce their future liability.
It's really hard to know how to evaluate PG&E's action without having a full understanding of its income and expenses. Are higher electric rates necessary to pay for removing vegetation and taking other steps necessary to reduce wildfire? Or did PG&E have the money to spend but chose to spend it on lower priority items, including paying shareholders and keeping higher than necessary retained earnings? Without this type of analysis, it's hard to know where the blame should lie.
19
As extreme as this action is, it is the right choice for right now. No question PG&E (or a future public utility that will hopefully take over for them) needs to redesign the infrastructure to better fit with today's climate.
I was a Bay Area resident for over a decade. It easy being in the Bay Area and not seeing fires or getting smoky air all that often during fire season and it feels overblown sometimes. But for the last three summers I have lived due east on the other side of the Sierra. The first two summers we were sealed up inside due to unhealthy smoke in the air coming over from California and settling in the Great Basin. Californians need to remember that its a worthy sacrifice to spare carcinogens for a massive population throughout the West. Not to mention the environment...
10
I'm fortunate enough to not be affected - this time.
It's time to start implementing public management of power. It's a core utility, necessary for safety and ultimately survival in our modern cities. In much of California it's managed by a private company that is dangerously cheap even when it's not outright negligent.
I'm sure there are ways we could improve or fortify this infrastructure to cut down the fire risk without shutting off power for nearly a week to hundreds of thousands of people but I have no faith in PG&E to pursue this expensive and unprofitable process. A public utility in contrast could operate without having to generate a profit and could use things like taxes and bonds to deal with expansion and infrastructure needs. A private for profit utility will always weigh safety against shareholder value and the results are bad for us all.
156
@Eric The Sacramento Municipal Utility District is top-notch. A few years ago, a ballot measure would have allowed SMUD expansion into a neighboring county. PG&E spent MILLIONS on scare-tactic ads that seemed plastered everywhere, including 24/7 on tv. Result? The measure was defeated, those voters stayed with the higher rates and poorer customer service. PG&E shareholders and over-paid execs were ecstatic. One more example of people voting against their self-interest due to airwaves saturated with Big Corporate propaganda.
13
@PeteNorCal.
I'm also on SMUD! Sacramento is like an island of power in the sea of PG&E outages.
3
@Eric
IMO, in all the talk lately -- including reader comments in the Times, SF Chronicle, etc. -- urging the municipalization of PG&E, it seems appropriate to give a shout-out to Bruce Brugmann, longtime editor of the now-defunct alternative weekly SF Bay Guardian. Bruggman was shouting to the high heavens 50 years ago that PG&E should be municipalized, a stance he relentlessly promoted until retiring a few years ago and for which he was ignored when not ridiculed by the powers that be.
2
After having lived through the fires and emotional trauma of watching those flee, die, and relocate AND the severe disruption from heavy heavy smoke in air and health threats from dangerous pollutants, forcing us to relocate our family for a week to Southern CA, I’m totally comfortable with the inconvenience of no energy for a few days.
21
I understand why they are doing this, but doesn’t thousands of people turning to gasoline-powered home generators present a fire risk that is exponentially higher than the threat posed by standardized public infrastructure?
154
@Jeff
Yes, but the liability for any fire damage is on the homeowner who uses the generator and not PG&E.
38
@Schneiderman Talking about liability after the fact is meaningless to the thousands of people left homeless by a catastrophic event such as the paradise fire!
2
@Jeff
No.. modern power generators are in fact quite safe to use. Their only real risk is setting them up indoors and not venting exhaust to the outside... but since there are temporary setups.. they are easy to setup on a patio and then run a properly rated extension cord indoors to appliances as required.
They do represent more air pollution.. but not on a scale that would be measurable in the context of air pollution from motor vehicles.
1
I live in an area that is going to lose power, but we have none of the extreme weather discussed in this article. PG&E tells me that they will shut the power anyway, forcing us to leave home. I don’t understand why. It seems like there should be some way to cut off power more selectively. PG&E must be using antiquated technology. But its 2019.
12
@MsB
Californians complain when PG+E utility bills get high, so PG+E is probably limited in the expensive upgrades to modern state of the art equipment. Those expenisve equipment costs will be reflected in the power bills of the customers.
2
@Will Hogan writes: "Those expenisve equipment costs will be reflected in the power bills of the customers."
Capital improvements on infrastructure could also come out of shareholder profits, which PG&E has prioritized over public safety for years.
4
So what about all that food in refrigerators and freezers, not to mention people dependent on electricity for necessary medical devices? Not to mention drugs that need refrigeration to remain effective. Does PG&E intend to pay for spoiled food? And what about liability for any deaths not only from failed medical devices but traffic fatalities from lack of traffic and street lights ? Does bankruptcy protect them from that? And will this be a yearly occurrence? Clearly a radical solution is needed, such as a State or Federal takeover of PG&E which could bring greater resources to deal with what is and will be a catastrophic problem.
131
@Amos M When PG&E had to shut off power a couple months ago to Irvine, friends of mine sent claims in to cover the cost of what was lost during the outage, which lasted 3-4 days. The only thing PG&E did was to give them $500 for spoiled groceries, even though the fish tank they lost was well into the thousands. And these folks lived in an apartment complex that wouldn't allow generators. I'm wondering if they're going to do the same here, but even if that's the case, I doubt you'd get much. I think this is insane, that one company has so much power to do this, but still can't upgrade/update its system to make it less vulnerable to fires.
15
PGE is not the power provider to SO cal, where Irvine is located.
5
@Lindsay $500 from PG&E was pretty generous since Irvine is in SCE's service territory.
5
"The deliberate power cuts have been described by PG&E as a way to lower the risk of fire while the company proceeds with its vegetation-trimming program." PG&E already did vegetation trimming in my neighborhood, yet we are still within the power shutoff area. That does not make sense to me.
11
@Gunhild Johnson That's because your power isn't locally generated. It's many of the transmission lines that they're concerned with.
This is a good reason why more power should be decentralized solar, on rooftops, covering warehouses and shopping malls and all their associated parking lots (which would provide the additional benefit of keeping parked cars cool, because they'd be in the shade!)
4
We are entering a new era of climate change.
Instead of making smaller changes over a longer period of time to adjust our lives to adjust to climate change and slow/stop it, we have continued business as usual – driving cars everywhere, having pointless items loaded onto airplanes so we could get them in 2 days, etc.
Now, instead of adjustments like using less electricity, nearly a million people in California are going without electricity at all. This is only the start.
The worst part is that the wealthiest among us (globally speaking), who did the most to cause these problems, will likely suffer the least.
92
@S It isn't the wealthy among us who are flooding the oceans with plastic, for example. For that you can thank grossly overpopulated countries, i,e. India and China. It is also third world countries burning down their rain forests who are damning the planet.
2
@KarenAnne not that simple. Never is. A lot of their plastic pollution is our recycling
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2019-4-july-august/feature/us-recycling-system-garbage%3famp
2
Good on PG&E to take proactive measures I guess, but it's amazing to me that in this day and age the best solution is to just turn off the power entirely. Maybe it's time in investing in modernizing and maintaining our power grid to make it safer and less likely to start fires so that hundreds of thousands of PG&E customers don't have to shut down their lives for days?
24
Why is full power or no power the only choice. The company filed for bankruptcy, which is ludicrous.
What is every power company doing to explore alternative power sources AND support consumers in their efforts to do the same? We know power companies, PUBLIC UTILITIES, which operate as monopolies in most cities and communities create barriers to those who would pursue generating their own power and even circulating it back to the grid. The other ridiculous thing about this is to act as if climate change and new building developments were not things that could have been foreseen, accommodated and planned for.
Here in the 21st century, how is it possible that the best strategy a power company has is to turn off the power to all it's customers?
28
@Lostin24
Because California chose to hold all utilities liable under inverse condemnation. It means that if they have followed al safety rules and have the best equipment that if anything happens no matter what they are liable.
1
To take such a drastic action, it must deserve more forethought. Surely there must be other ways to achieve the desired outcome. However, there is another (very important) side to this story: We cannot predict Mother Nature.
1
So Northern California is going back to the 18th Century?
Wouldn't a 21st Century alternative be installation of rooftop solar panels?
97
@DSL That's now mandatory for new construction. Unfortunately, they don't work well everywhere in CA.
2
@DH Except that the solar is all tied to the grid with that new construction, so it wouldn't make a difference if they turn the power off.
9
@DSL Small rooftop installations are a very inefficient way to generate solar power; they make/made sense in California only because the state's PUC allowed our three main electrical providers to charge very high rates. But small solar "farms" scattered about the state have attractive economics; we don't need 2000 panels in a single location, but 200 or 500 definitely has installation and maintenance efficiencies over 16 or 20.
The big problem with all solar: time-shifting the energy from mid-day, when there's peak-production, to dinnertime, when there's peak-consumption.
Rooftop solar doesn't solve this, and battery storage systems are still too expensive.
1
The good news is PG&E is being pro-active.
The down side is that all those thousands of generators puttering away are themselves potential fire hazards-- relatively few people have solar panels and battery storage, a safer but very expensive alternative.
Fighting vegetation is hard, the cost is high and if successful it looks like a waste of money.
10
But they did pay big management bonuses and continue to do so.
PG&E is efficient at increasing the profits of its shareholders and padding the pockets of its management. Even in bankruptcy it continues to ask for outrageous bonuses and to try to offload its liabilities on California through increased taxes and increased power rates.
The State needs to take over PG&E. Cue a chorus of Libertarians laking about the inefficiency of government.
260
@Chris Martin
Proving again that like healthcare there are some things too important to be left to for-profit enterprises.
9
@Chris Martin
If you want this readership to understand how PG&E padded the pockets of its management, then spell out what those bonuses were. And the current salaries of the top CEO's.
2
Texas utilities have a very aggressive tree cutting program. State law allows the firms to cut down anything that remotely might be near a line. Police need a warrant, but ONCOR’s guys with chain saws go anywhere they want. We do get more than a few stories about people chaining themselves to their trees to protect them. Seeing what is happening in CA, maybe tree aggression is a good idea. They do grow back.
2
@Michael Blazin this is also true in California. They just don't. And when they do cut, they just leave the lumber on the ground.
5
I know PG&E's website has been down, but it would have been helpful for the article to include links to sites that show where the power is being cut.
31
@KC This map covers the Bay Area potential outages and some northern and central outages. If you are concerned about a particular address, you can type it in and find out if it is in one of the outage zones: https://projects.sfchronicle.com/trackers/power-outages/
3
@KC I tried to access PG&E's web site multiple times yesterday and could not find out whether my neighborhood's power would be shut off, because the web site was not working and/or crashing because of the volume of web-site traffic. Finally, I e-mailed my city councilperson, and she told me that my address would not have an outage. Chaotic communications here!
2
This is a total sham! PG&E is trying to look proactive after the last two years of wildfires. But, they have not explained why almost half of California should be considered high risk. And, five days to restore power!? Best thing would be to get rid of the whole company!
140
@giorgio sorani
half of the state is under a red flag warning today
https://www.weather.gov/
6
@giorgio sorani ~
Although this covers a lot of area, I don't think 500,000 -1,000,000 people are "half of California".
1
this is dumb i dont think we need to turn off the power because high wind conditions shouldnt make us turn off all the powers for countys and citys and if there was a fire then theres a fire u can blame what nature does u lose some u win some.
1
Declaring bankruptcy and cutting power are solutions? And I complain about our electric company here in France. If they tried either one of these, there would be new management, and I'm being polite.
197
@Jean louis LONNE That's a fair point (particularly about the bankruptcy), but France isn't a desert as is this area of California (I live in Los Altos where this is happening). We haven't had rain in 6 months; we won't for another 2. The forests, of which there are many, are kindling and boarder neighborhoods -- really wealthy ones actually. People will die in the inevitable wildfires, regardless. I'm okay with an energy company being a bit cautious to save lives, even if it means i go without electricity for half a day.
11
@Jean louis LONNE, and I used to complain about Con Ed when I lived in NYC. This PG&E strategy is absolutely ridiculous - over the years, they have never hesitated to weasel out of accountability, and then stick it to the consumer, when their negligence has resulted in disaster. Now, in a ludicrous attempt to escape liability, we have this shutdown. Evidently they have not thought through the liability of litigation of the unfortunate results of such a shutdown. I suppose they've weighed the potential costs of fires caused and/or abetted by a failed infrastructure, vs the potential costs of financial losses, injuries, and deaths that a days-long shutdown would result in - and decided that the latter was of less risk to them.
34
@Jason Kelly we live in the Sierra foothills, and our power was cut. We have had big rains and are not a desert. It just poor infrastructure maintenance.
21