trump tweeted this, literally seven years ago--to the DAY:
"Has Barack Obama been caught red handed laundering money into his campaign from illegal online foreign donations? Media?" 10.10.12 djt
11
Ethical lawyers in Washington DC and Cipollone's home state should immediately bring action to have him disbarred. No competent lawyer could have written that letter in good faith. Every lawyer is an officer of the Court, and no lawyer has a right to deliberately misrepresent the law in representing any client.
9
Trump's understanding of rules are they are to be gamed by being broken.
That the house sets its own rules is critical to this entire episode in US history.
If it would result in his removal from office, I'd be willing to write rules that established that a house vote of no confidence could, if confirmed by a two-thirds vote of the Senate at a joint session of Congress (with the Chief Justice in attendance). All the votes take place on that day... that day being the State of the Union.
Since the whole SOTU takes place in the house chambers, I think the majority there have every right to write whatever rules they need to assert the will of the people.
The point is not the rules mentioned above, but rather the authority of the house to do what it needs to stop this madness.
The point being that in this battle over reality, we really don't know the future. Will Trump resist if he loses or more likely, have foreign countries hack the election in his favor.
Who knows what shenanigans may be justified in fight with a man who thinks all winners cheat. It used to be in the old days if some one was caught cheating at poker they would be run out of town on a rail if not summarily shot.
Wake up, we're dealing with a cheater and it is this notion that cheaters always win that is behind this Russian thing, this Ukranian thing and most everything else except the white nationalism. That form of racism is what is behind his abandoning the Kurds.
2
The only way to make the Senate pay for enabling Trump is to show the evidence to the people. If the House were to follow the NY Times' advice, then the people might never see the evidence or understand what a terrible thing the Senate has done.
2
My vote:
Hold a full vote for an inquiry first thing Monday. Show the President - and the public - just how many of our representatives are willing to stand up and do their job of being the "check" to the Executive Branch's "balance." An investigation absolutely needs to happen, sure. But more to the point, the House needs to remind the President that he doesn't get to make the rules. And we need to know that our Congress - ALL of our Congress - is willing to do its part in our system.
If your representative isn't willing to uphold the Constitutional system of checks and balances, vote 'em out.
And if the vote fails, we have bigger problems than Donald Trump being President. May as well know the truth.
36
@htg
Question: how come the house of representatives has NOT voted on an official impeachment inquiry?
Answer: they are scared to because they know it's all a sham, and they know that the American people know it is a sham.
4
Indeed, Mr. Misogynist doesn't stand a chance against Ms. Pelosi.
5
Once again the Times Editorial Board is under the assumption that both sides should play by Marquis of Queensbury rules here. Trump is not. Pelosi is pursuing impeachment entirely legally and fairly. Hell, even Nixon had more respect for the office and the Constitution than any elected Republican official in Washington today. Trump and his enablers will get their days in court during the Senate trial. And their sweating and squirming will be worth the price of admission.
13
The Speaker may "hit back" with affective, disordered rigor and resolution but by doing so, and in her already demonstrated abnormal behavior and procedures, she merely underscores the political deviancy, rather than per se legal nature, of this DNC program. That is, the Speaker has already violated procedure, process, protocol and especially, rules, such that the normal machinery of an impeachment hearing (even) has been emasculated. The President is right to reject the not only farcical but corrupted House. In fact he is legally, constitutionally obligated to do so. This is all otherwise rather apparently dramatic, but will come to nothing except a serious diminution of DNC credibility and authority. It is otherwise somewhat unfortunate the Editors undertake an effective public suasion role in such a special interest legislative abuse. Regards.
11
Your comments are diametrically opposed to those expressed in this column. The editors have laid out the view that the house has wide latitude in establishing the parameters of an impeachment proceeding because specific rules are not defined in the constitution. On what basis do you claim the opposite?
175
@Matt Andersson
Everything you state here is false.
The Speaker hasn't done anything "abnormal" and she hasn't "violated procedure, process, protocol...or rules."
"The Constitution prescribes no specific process, nor does federal law." The Speaker is well within her rights to open an impeachment inquiry the way she has. There is no "normal machinery of an impeachment hearing." It's whatever Congress deems it to be.
But set aside the questions about the process for a moment. If the president has nothing to hide, why is he blocking testimony and refusing to provide documents that will prove his innocence?
50
@Matt Andersson
The role of the DNC as the bogeyman avatar of the anti-Trumpist factions is getting bizarre, as illustrated here. And it is adopted at the highest levels of the GOP. In last night's interview of Secretary Pompeo by PBS's Judy Woodruff, she asked him about the source of Trump's claim of unconfirmed criminal activity the Bidens had committed in their dealings with Ukraine, yet multiple inquiries had disproven. Pompeo looked sternly at Woodruff and asked in return: do you work for the DNC? I admired her composure upon such insulting and irreverent question, as she replied: I am an independent journalist working for PBS. The very little bit of decency I still hoped Pompeo possessed as the head of our diplomatic corps was rudely dashed. There is absolutely no decency in this administration, by none, just political perversion, indecency, corruption and self dealing.
34
People like Trump and the current Republican party only understand power. The days when Republicans cared about norms, rules, even laws are past. Now it's all about winning, no matter the cost.
The precedent Trump sets, if unchallenged forcefully and immediately, will be the undoing of the American project. Not because of Trump himself, but because of the message it sends - that the president is above the law, and Congress, the SUPREME branch of government, let him get away with it. The next Trump may not be an incompetent petty demagogue who is uninterested in the job of governing. The next Trump could be like the ever growing list of authoritarians in developed countries, who shrewdly maneuver their way past laws and institutions to cement their power. That is terrifying.
55
"Democrats need to show basic fairness." Why?
6
Trump is out of control and begging to be stopped, and Nancy is the Sherif of Constitution and Pennsylvania Avenues
5
Your editorial misses a couple key points:
1. The House has not yet voted on anything related to impeachment: no vote for an "inquiry" much less a vote to impeach. The democrats are afraid to vote for the inquiry, and until they do so, all of their requests ring hollow and partisan, as does media support.
2. The Trump/Zelensky phone call transcript is available to the public, so there is no need to refer to the so-called "whistleblower" (who had no direct involvement), nor the second party who alleges direct involvement, because what they say does not matter: the transcript says it all. And the transcript does not unequivocally identify quid pro quo - some say it does, some say it does not, but it is certainly not an absolute that there was quid pro quo (and the key witness, President Zelensky, asserts there was NO quid pro quo).
3. Vice President Joe Biden boasted about forcing the firing of Victor Shokin, the Ukraine prosecutor who was investigating Burisma Holdings, the Ukraine gas company that paid $600,000/year to Hunter Biden to be on its board of directors. Specifically, Biden boasted that he withheld $1 BILLION unless Shokin was fired! (listen to him here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCF9My1vBP4)
4. Victor Shokin released his sworn affidavit (read it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/427618359/Shokin-Statement). New York Times refuses to acknowledge its existence and content.
2
I have just three words for Trump and his fevered apologists in Congress, as they weave their tangled web of anti impeachment efforts; Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi.
9
I think the point that needs to be made - over and over - the Democrats are not the “bad guys” in all this. DEMOCRATS ARE NOT THE BAD GUYS! They are patriots!
The WH occupant and his GOP henchmen (and women) are working hard to make Americans think that they are the so-called victims of Speaker Pelosi and the Democrats. The GOP has been given the fantasy scripts and talking points and they are repeating them ad nauseum!
I repeat: Democrats are not the bad guys!
9
It appears that Joe Biden is yet not official opponents of President as Primary election of Dems not yet done. He is a mere citizen of USA. Can the President of the USA not investigate corruption of a citizen and not ask for cooperation from foreign governments like Swiss government? It seems bizzar to prevent elected President from investigating a citizen for corruption.
8
@Anil There is a difference between cooperation and investigation. Cooperation is allowing the FBI to investigate this in their country not allowing a foreign county do it.
8
@Anil
1) Joe Biden is not just a 'citizen,' but a former vice-president, a leader of the opposition party and a candidate for president. You can't just wish away this obvious political dimension to any investigation or prosecution by the party in power.
2) If the presidente believes a criminal investigation is warranted, the process should take place within the U.S. Department of Justice, with assistance from foreign agencies as needed. The DOJ has undertaken no such investigation, perhaps because the known facts point to no criminal behavior, and such an unfounded process would have obvious political motives (see above) and constitute an abuse of power.
3) The president's call to President Zelensky clearly leveraged U..S. diplomatic and military power against a dependent and quite needy government in order to pursue a political attack on a political rival, placing U.S. security interests as secondary to that political purpose. This violates U.S. law and long-established protocols.
So no, your attempt to reframe this as a normal investigation of corruption by a president exercising his normal duties is simply wrong on all counts.
10
@Anil Joe Biden has officially announced to enter the Democratic Presidential Race and he is not a mere citizen. If you are in corrupted, then DOJ can investigate and ask proof from other countries' offices to convict you. Here, the case is so open and clear, your favourite president is trying to find dirt of the official political rival who is leading the race who might be able to defeat him in 2020, by using a military aid to pressure another head of the country. It is clearly an impeachable act based on US constitution. He clearly went against his own oath taken in 2016. He committed the treason by asking other countries to meddle in USA election race. It seems bizarre to support this kind of president.
1
Yes, she can 'fight back' except that she has always been on offense and it is DT who fights back. In fact, all the Dems are doing is fighting Trump although he does not fight them, trying to overthrow him for three years now, currently embracing this silly story which, by the way, is almost an obvious primer of corruption of the beloved Biden rather than anything else.
But, NP will not get what she and all Dems wants - Trump's head. It is sad that we have to witness this spectacular circus massively fueled by the complicit media, NYT being the champion of this shamelessness. Whatever, got used to it, 'there will be blood' if you recall the movie and figuratively speaking, but Trump will stay where he is and will have better chances to win next year.
4
The Mueller investigation was commenced by Trump's Deputy AG and Trump's appointed Inspector General referred the Ukrainian whistleblower complaint. These inquiries were started by Republicans not Demo6.
6
Would you make me a copy of the White House talking points? If the Democrats have been fighting Trump for three years, it is largely because of Trump's conservative, radical, irresponsible, self-serving, corrupt policies, actions and words. E.g., trillion dollar deficits in the "greatest economic recovery ever," repeal of with no replacement for Obamacare, destruction of Western Alliance, withdrawal from Syria, attacks on private citizens. List is endless.
8
No matter how much we compare Nixon or Clinton behaviors to the current proceedings we have to realize that Donald Trump cares not about the rule of law and would have no problem Figuratively or Literally burning down the White House if not the country to be reelected. The absurdity of allowing access to the presidents lawyers during the fact finding portion of the upcoming proceedings would be tantamount to letting John Gotti's legal team unfettered access to the detectives and grand jury prior to any trial and that absurdity should not be lost on anyone who cares about the constitution.
The reality is Trump can not allow access to any documents because that would create a slippery slope that would end with the secret server where inconvenient conversations with world leaders including Putin are stored. Trump and his legal team will engage in any legal maneuver no matter how absurd as a simple matter of survival and to stay outside the statute of limitations with another term.
9
trump’s minions keep trotting this ‘Executive Privilege’ poppycock, harking back to the Divine Right of Kings, which went out with the American Revolution. Congress needs to get tough with executive office officials who are ignoring Congressional subpoenas and having them arrested by the Senate Sergeant at Arms and hauled before the docket. The Constitution isn’t worth the paper it was written on if the likes of Pompeo can thumb their noses at it with impunity.
9
The House should not hold a floor vote and thereby allow trump to set or even suggest rules for the impeachment inquiry. The magnitude of his delusions and level of ignorance should be grounds for automatic removal from office under the 25th Amendment, Section 4.
5
I think a lot of people are sick of Trump, even his supporters but I can't find any democratic candidate worth voting for and I don't share the notion of (anyone but Trump). I am truly confused. Ideas I believe strongly in include
a) healthcare for all (I don't believe anybody should go bankrupt if they fall sick OR not have insurance if they don't have a job)
b) Environmental issues
c) Improved infrastructure spending.
However, the democratic candidates I find are so interested in identity politics that they all turn me off. Their stand (or non-stand) on immigration alone is enough for me to vote Trump. I would vote for Bill Clinton in a heart-beat if he ran again.
4
the only way the house will get Trump to to cooperate is with court order from supreme court. Other wise they could use there time better pounding sand.
2
If the Democrats limit articles of impeachment to abuses of power in plain sight (request to China to investigate Biden) and abuses established by documentary evidence, what witnesses would Trump call? Or Democrats, for that matter?
1
"They are engaged in an asymmetrical struggle with a White House that has shown itself willing to set fire to the Constitution to protect Mr. Trump from the consequences of his own misbehavior. "
Unfortunately, the asymmetry is worse than that. The Congressional Republican caucus is in full support of the White House. There can be no doubt that they will grossly abuse subpoena power.
4
You can't argue or deal with a head of a criminal organization, which Trump and the Republican Party have become. Call the Sergeant at Arms of the House, tell him to find Guiliani, slap the cuffs on him and bring him back. The House has that power. Time works for Trump, allowing him to muddy the waters and convince the "less educated" amongst us that impeachment is wrong. If we're going to have a Constitutional Crisis then lets have one. Get the Supreme Court involved right now and see if the Supremes are for the Constitution or their political backers. You don't take off a band-aid slowly. You rip it off and let the healing begin. Let's get this party started.
6
The premise that this administration conducts an investigation of our own government in a joint effort with foreign governments who want to accommodate the current American administration is an exercise in absurdity. During the Sunday morning news shows, Rep Jim Jordan asked how can anyone take the president seriously when he says China should help with investigating Hunter Biden's business dealings. Exactly! How can anyone take anything the president says seriously? How can any sane, self-respecting person ask the public such a question? It is beyond absurd. The president has proven to be entirely biased, unreliable, dishonest, and self-serving. Democrats should not give in to Republican stalling tactics. The country has learned through hard lessons during the last three years that the president and Republicans do not negotiate in good faith. Facts and due process are nonexistent in Trumpland. It is 100% media campaign aimed at Americans' worst impulses.
6
I hope the Democrat House members play it smart and hire a real lawyer to do all their questioning .. Generally, House hearings are all about members who use their limited time to market themselves to their constituents and take cheap shots at the opposition. This is serious, this is an impeachment hearing- I don't care to listen to any house members make cutesy, snide remarks or watch them eat a bucket of chicken.
6
Watkins v. United States, 354 U.S. 178 (1957)
(a) The power of Congress to conduct investigations, inherent in the legislative process, is broad, but it is not unlimited. P. 354 U. S. 187.
(d) The Bill of Rights is applicable to congressional investigations, as it is to all forms of governmental action. P. 354 U. S. 188.
the supreme court will have weigh in on the matter since neither the executive or congress can force the other to act unless the court sides with them.
2
@plainleaf No, Trump (or whoever is next) could decide that as they are co-equal, but not superior, branches of government, what they say doesn't matter to him or his administration and they can 'stick it' as far as he's concerned. If the House wants to play hardball, they must begin by freezing or stopping current funding for White House operations, the White House counsel and not allow for the issuance of any future funds to pay for them until the Chief Executive, his office and officials submit to and recognize the Congressional prerogative to investigate, impeach and hold accountable the Executive Branch for what it has, is and is about to do. Additionally, the Executive must answer all queries either house of the Congress may pose and submit truthful information, documents and additional material they may so detail. But the House leadership is so weak, frail, faltering, cowardly and spineless that they won't do that.
The people the Democrats need to convince are not Trump and Cipollone, or even the Republicans in the House and Senate. A majority of American voters need to be convinced the hearing and any subsequent trial are fair and reasonably impartial if the Democrats want a chance at victory in 2020.
This is an uphill climb for sure, because some 40% of the electorate watches nothing but Fox News and will never believe the hearings are fair any more than Trump will. Probably another 30-40% are committed Democrats who don't care whether it's fair or not. But the other 20-30% must be convinced impeachment is not partisan and is being done in a fair and open manner. Failing to convince them risks handing Trump victory in 2020. So let the minority Republicans issue their own subpoenas - what are we trying to hide? Let Trump's lawyer see the evidence -- in all likelihood, he's seen a lot worse. Let the truth come out, because the more that comes out, the worse Trump will look.
3
@Nikki Here are the actual words Trump said on that ohne call. His haters will want to decide exactly what is so bad here that he must not ONLY be ousted but denied all legal rights that even criminal suspects receive. Ready?
(They'd been talking about European leaders.)
''The other thing, there's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.
Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.''
That's it.
From NPR
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764052120/read-transcript-of-president-trumps-call-with-ukraine-s-leader
1
The congress should establish a formal, ad hoc agency if professional investigators to assist with the impeachment inquiry. This agency could include experienced, former FBI and CIA members, and state investigators.
2
The Democrats have always had the rules. What they've been sorely lacking in is rigor and resolution.
6
The subpoenas from congressional democrats to multitude of people in past and current WH administration have been routinely ignored. The Dems have failed to call the peons of the emperor the carpet and punish them for ignoring their constitutionally given powers.
The momentum and public opinion is tilting in Dems' favor. If they fail to act in riling up public opinion and prevail over republican Supreme Court in their efforts to get rid of the Shame on Humanity in WH, then the country is doomed.
Just as Roman empire did centuries ago.
@Assay the country is not doomed but the democrats are if they fail to impeach.
2
YES
1
I know this much. Nancy Pelosi knows the Trump playbook of non-compliance, delays, and negotiating in bad faith while lying through the media. She is progressing step by step in a well thought out plan that fully anticipates this behavior because it is so predictable.
She also knows this will go to the courts before any useful documents will be shared. She's building a case for clear transgressions, reasonable requests for documents and testimony, and unlawful obstruction. Only then will she go before the courts.
The obstruction becomes a well documented additional article of impeachment. She may do as this editorial suggests on defining the impeachment process but it won't be for Trump. All this is for the judges and for the American people. Without a doubt this is going to court!
9
Trump will not do anything unless compelled. His entire life is one of bluster, bluff, and bullying. The House is capable of using every tool to bring Trump and his minions to account, and must do so.
And, lest anyone think that all of that "bringing people to account" will distract Congress from doing lots of other work for the people, the House is capable of also advancing legislation to improve heath care, the environment, infrastructure, education, and justice. In short, the Speaker can walk and chew gum at the same time.
The House should be able to keep McConnell's Senate and Executive branch plenty busy.
5
"...it is right for the president of the United States to use his immense power to solicit a foreign government’s interference on his behalf in an election — even, possibly, by way of extortion. At the same time, the letter argued, it is illegitimate for Congress, a coequal branch of government, to undertake any investigation into the president or members of his administration (or diplomats, personal lawyers and hangers-on) regarding this behavior."
3rd graders could see the wrongness in this...
4
When the president commits a crime that falls within the purview of high crimes and misdemeanors, the House of Representatives has a constitutional responsibility to impeach him. It's a shame that the WH counsel should characterize the impeachment inquiry the House has undertaken as “baseless, unconstitutional efforts to overturn the democratic process.” There is no other reason for him to do it than “to confuse the public and delay any final judgment by Congress,” as said in the editorial.
The letter he sent is being pretentious when it tells Congress how to conduct its business. It’s a shame that WH lawyers, counsel Pat Cipollone counted first, don’t know that there is no constitutional or legal requirement that an impeachment inquiry should be first approved though a full-House vote.
As stated in the editorial, if it is put to vote, the Democratic-majority House will approve it. Then, as Speaker Pelosi said, Trump will be disparaging the inquiry “as a partisan hit job.”
The appropriate thing for the House to do at this stage is to complete the impeachment inquiry without further delay. It has the backing of a majority in the country, as the results of all polls so far taken show. Once the articles of impeachment is approved through a full-House vote, it will go to the Senate. We will then have a chance to see how many Republican senators are willing to sacrifice the interests of the country to protect a president who has clearly committed an impeachable crime.
3
The Editorial Board succinctly diagnosed Cipollone’s Complaint.
Patient thinks he's fit as a fiddle. Patient thinks he runs the hospital. Patient claims that he'll cooperate, once he's supervising the surgery. Patient promises satisfaction with fair operation, but lawsuits over legitimacy are being prepared.
Oops, based on past business ventures, this is a pre-existing condition. Sorry to inform, Donald Trump's policy will not be renewed.
7
The Defense Lawyer Credo
for Pat Cipollone
If the facts are against you, attack the process.
If the process is against you, attack the facts.
If the facts and the process are against you, wave your arms maniacally and scream that the trial is a set up.
14
@RD in LA. The tax returns are in Moscow. Astonishing that the Deutsche Bank are now claiming they don't have them after agreeing to fully cooperate.
10
The other side cheats while insisting that our side play fair. I think we've had enough of THAT.
And who were the largest vampire profiteers in the 2008 housing crisis? Well, some of them are now in the Crooked Cabinet.
13
WH lawyers scrambling to hide this evidence of the president committing a crime: these are taxpayer funded lawyers working to protect the OFFICE of President? Not Trump’s personal lawyers.
Doesn’t that make them ineligible for any protected privilege? And isn’t it also grounds for disbarment?
House, go for it.
8
Trump and his defenders just make up stuff. fling it against the wall, and hope one of their bogus arguments sticks to that wall and that the public is too ignorant to notice all the spurious nonsense they spew.
This entire Trump regime has been all about trying to normalize the abnormal and to make corruption ethical.
This "letter" is so ridiculous, it is laughable. But the Republicans and Fox News know all they need to do is come up with a few talking points and soundbites that can provide the fallacious rationale for Trump supporters to remain loyal to and cheer every damaging Trump statement and destructive Trump action.
I will give it to the Republicans. They know how to lie and advertise their way to power. But when are Trump supporters going to ask "Power for what and for whom?"
And I will give it to Nancy Pelosi, who knows exactly what kind of lying, double-dealing, Machiavellians she is dealing with in Trumpworld, and she knows exactly what she is doing. Timing is everything, and the momentum for impeachment is only starting to build. Trump is desperately spinning out of control, and I don't think the Republicans know what to do.
One party and its president are clearly on the wrong side of history. The rest of the world seems to know which party. Will American voters and the Electoral College?
11
Is a coup a realistic possibility in a democracy or is this another inflammatory delusion?
3
Do not give in to the WH demands to confuse and delay the process. They lied and obstructed through the entire Mueller process, including the results as reported by crooked Barr. The Constitution has been ignored by this WH and the House has the impeachment authority. Period. Get on with the facts.
10
Trump's actions are clearly treasonous --even he finally appears to be grasping this, which is why he is lashing out hysterically like a cornered animal. No innocent man would act this way.
He and his Republican stooges have abandoned the Constitution, the country and the American people. They might as well remove the phony American flags from their lapels and replace them with Russian flags.
10
Mind boggling double standards! Ken Starr ran the longest partisan witch hunt in history and would have kept going on and on until he found something, anything. Why did they get to put the president under oath and ask him about private matters and this guy doesn't even have to testify about critical matters of public corruption, self dealing, abuse of power, obstruction. He gets to send written private statements crafted by his lawyers to keep him out of trouble? He has also lied and covered up an affair. Nobody wants to get a statement on that? Is this behavior not impeachable if done by a Republican? What about Benghazi trials? Multiple lengthy televised interviews trying to crack or at least damage a reputation. Why don't we give that level of respect to Trump for the crimes he has already admitted to? I'd like to see him go through a 12 hour televised trial. We would get such a wealth of information that is damning to our country and democracy. Come on Dems....put him under oath!
15
Dems need to play real hard ball, Treasonous Trump needs to be looking at prison when exiting the WH, similar to how all his associates have to date. This will focus his mind to play real hardball, but Pelosi will no doubt be aware. She was born to save our US Constitution.
7
I thought Congress controlled the national budget.
Is there no such thing in the US as a line item in a budget to reduce the compensation of a person or a department to $1 a year?
That symbolic measure has a long history in Parliamentary democracies. Back in 1985, the head of the Canadian post office proposed eliminating house to house mail delivery - even to homes which had long had that service. Members met with him privately and told him, if he proceeded, they would amend the budget to cut his salary to a dollar.
He insisted that the Prime Minister would restore his salary. We agreed that he might; but asked if he wished the publicity that a House Committee was prepared to cut his pay to a dollar?
He withdrew his unpopular policy proposal.
4
Trump is using guerrilla warfare strategies: Dirty fighting, shock tactics, and making a complete mockery of conventional rules. The Dems really have no idea who the enemy is here, and this delicate constitutional dance they're practicing is creating plenty of hoots of glee in the Monkey House.
3
Pelosi needs to really step up and ferociously fight against Trump's flagrant defiance of Congressional subpoena's.
The vast majority of America demand "jail time" for these arrogant Trumpeteers who are in repeated contempt of Congress.
Otherwise Congress sets a precedent forever...no one will ever comply with a subpoena again or, for that matter, any laws passed by Congress.
Trump can then just shred the Constitution and eliminate the entire, no longer co-equal, legislative branch... (one way to get more wall money)
Trump can't do that, you say?
Ha... just watch him.
6
The Democratic leadership is just using the Gowdy, Chaffetz, Nunes protocols, namely, just ignore the minority, What goes around comes around. Your turn to be mere spectators.
2
I recommend the following edit to provide adequate context: “subsequent changes to House rules[, which were made by Republicans—including Trump’s new personal attorney for the impeachment proceedings—to grant themselves unilateral subpoena authority to investigate the Obama administration,] make that step unnecessary.” Republicans cry foul that Speaker Pelosi is not playing by the rules, when she’s applying rules made by Republicans. Their argument is like saying a team playing in the Super Bowl should not be able to use the forward pass because that was the rule back in the day. But that’s not how the world works: you operate according the rules of today.
And if you think Republicans, who changed rules and precedent to withhold Obama’s nominee to the Supreme Court, wouldn’t do the exact same thing, then you’re daft and deluded.
5
@Stephen
The forward pass is all right, I guess -- but the designated hitter needs to go, right?
Obama would back down and write another autobiography (forget results, it’s all about Hope!) We’ll see if Nancy avoids being pushed around as easily.
1
POTUS the Trumpet
Reigned with his strumpet
Watching the Kurds fade away
Along came Pelosi
Impeached him morosely
And frightened the Trumpet away.
4
The White House is showing its toxicity to the max; it is not a matter of a "president is vested by Americans through legitimate elections", Trump won because he rigged them. Just look at his policy of reversing legitimate accusations about his appalling dictatorship; the moment someone accuses him of wrongdoing he counterattacks accusing the accuser back with the same, thereby essentially killing any dispute. And just look at what is happening in Turkey: the old horrible adage that when a dictator is experiencing extreme socio-political difficulties the only choice to distract attention away from his failed polity is a war, is taking shape before our eyes. That is the playbook of any autocrat: Hitler did it. Mussolini did it. Trump is doing it by withdrawing boots on the ground in that Middle East mess - indirectly. He is showing clear signs of total incoherence. Question is: what next? Never ever give a bully the chance to "steal the ball away from the match"; you give him an inch he grabs a mile.
3
I read your editorials and shake my head. I know if this were Hillary Clinton behaving this way, The New York Times would have called on her to resign.
Why have you not called on Trump to resign?
8
Dear Editorial Board;
We are through the looking glass!!
The Republican Party does not believe in Democratic government.
In dealing with President Obama they undertook a strategy of total opposition regardless of the merits.
In pursuing investigations the Republicans have taken a strategy of righteous indignation and conspiracy theories regardless of the merits.
The Democrats should follow the requirements set in the Constitution. There is no requirement for a House vote, no requirement for subpoena power for the minority, and no requirement for due process during the investigatory phase.
We must not waste time arguing over utopianist concepts of fairness.
The country must be saved from a President and a political party hellbent on the exercise of power at any cost. Investigate and impeach.
10
Dear Editorial Board;
We are through the looking glass!!
The Republican Party does not believe in Democratic government.
In dealing with President Obama they undertook a strategy of total opposition regardless of the merits.
In pursuing investigations the Republicans have taken a strategy of righteous indignation and conspiracy theories regardless of the merits.
The Democrats should follow the requirements set in the Constitution. There is no requirement for a House vote, no requirement for subpoena power for the minority, and no requirement for due process during the investigatory phase.
We must not waste time arguing over utopianist concepts of fairness.
The country must be saved from a President and a political party hellbent on the exercise of power at any cost.
2
The Republican Party is a criminal organization and should be charged with RICO laws with the Criminal Trump as its Godfather.
5
What a stinking pile of False Equivalence! On the one hand, the administration's demands are risible. But, on the other hand, the House should give in to them anyway.
2
Democrats should be transparent. Democrats do not have to play by any rules, regulations or wishes of the White House. Ignore the White House; proceed forthwith with the inquiry. America is not as stupid as the Trump administration and the GOP believe; we are watching, listening, and waiting.
12
@Frugalista how will they do that when they are being denied documents and witness.
Get Donald Trump‘s tax returns. When you have that the ball game will be over .
And no amount of moping by Donald Trump or his pathetic lawyer Rudy Giuliani, will be able to save the day. Get his tax returns and you’ll finally be rid of Donald Trump .
6
@RD they can not get Trump tax returns since the head of IRS said they do not have right see them.
1
What a mealy-mouthed, self-contradictory, have-it-both-ways line of reasoning! The editorial board seems to be half-stepping back its support for the House impeachment inquiry offered only a week or so ago. This is the sort of political temporizing that gives ‘balance” a bad name. Trump deserves no concessions from the House Democrats leading the impeachment inquiry and the House Democrats shouldn’t allow themselves to get hamstrung by bad advice from “friends” like these at the NYT.
3
Oh jeez. Supposedly clear minded Editorial Board is advocating "addressing the complaints of the White House." That kind of useless anti-logic is the same as trying to answer the republican "desire for an investigation into the Bidens' corruption in Ukraine."
You guys just don't get it. Responding to a what amounts to a lie with logic is not logical, it plays into their game and is a waste of time. How about just addressing truth and reality and ignore the lies, deflections, and obstruction. That would shorten your article considerably: "We recommend House leadership take that letter and add it to the evidence file under the Article of Impeachment titled, "Contempt of Congress."
I'd think smart people would have figured this stuff out by now. NYT Editorial Board sure hasn't.
4
The desperation and fear that the Stain, his supporters, enablers and co-conspirators are feeling right now is palpable.
They are clearly scared, backed in the corner porcupines. While they are dumb to think they can get away with treason and other high crimes, they’re not stupid. They see this is a Sun Tzu Ar of War moment.
“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”
“In the midst of chaos, there is also opportunity”
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
They are also attacking the public narrative which, u fortunately, plays a role these days in shifting perceptions (think, the town idiot running the banks and real estate). This small minority are mostly loud mouthed microcosms of the Human Stain. The middle piece needs to be influenced and motivated to reach out to their congress people and Senators to urge them to “uncover the facts” to see who is right and who is Trump. Public support for a full inquiry is the first stage to uncovering the dirty truths. That process needs to be accomplished in a squeaky clean way.
Know the opponents, know your weaknesses and DO NOT RELENT. Constant pressure the distractions will come (Turkey/Syria, Trade War, the Wall, calls for civil war) no blinking!
1
"set fire to the Constitution." Never in my life did I expect to think about how destructive this could be for my country. We have always made some attempt to use power under the auspices of rules and regulations set forth about 200 years ago. Now it seems that one branch of our Government is throwing those ideas down the toilet one by one. This is really heartbreaking to see and hear on a daily basis. The hatred of both sides grows on a daily basis and I see the country slipping into a darkness I thought never to see again. I was very young in the last epochal threat to the country and felt sure things could change. Now -------- I am not so sure.
1
NYT Please Advise: Given the trajectory our country is on, at what point does the NYT call for Trump’s resignation?
5
From my experience, no matter how long and loud a belligerent brat screams, in the end, a disciplined master always rules.
Go, Nancy.
5
As this 3 Ring circus enters unimpeded in its political driving coup for power inquistion there is only one Word to sum up the people being subjected to this onslaught of abuse of authority by the misguided actions of the congress=Desenssitized!
2
The White House Counsel’s letter represents yet another example of the president’s “throw it against the wall to see if it sticks” approach. Only the most virulent Trump supporter would have had no argument with the content. To quote a passage: “Many Democrats now apparently view impeachment not only as a means to undo the democratic results of the last election, but as a strategy to influence the next election, which is barely more than a year away”. Firstly, the truly democratic results of the 2016 election showed that Clinton defeated Trump in the popular vote. Secondly, and lest we forget, the impeachment inquiry began because of Mr. Trump’s attempt to influence the next election; by soliciting help from a foreign government no less. The House should not accede to any of the demands in this letter. Trump would never reciprocate and in fact, would only find a way to take advantage.
5
Fox News and talk radio are hard at work, convincing people that all the president did was give the leader of a small country a friendly jingle. The sooner the truth emerges, the more likely people will understand this isn't a fantasy deep state; it's called law enforcement.
2
No concessions.
Unlike Nixon and Clinton, this is an ongoing criminal conspiracy, not a single past event or events and then an ensuing cover-up. Trump went right ahead and committed the exact same crime that he incorrectly believed the Mueller report exonerated him of. With seeming impunity.
Additionally, it appears that there is at least one GOP House member referenced in today's indictments. Will that person or persons be allowed to issue subpoenas and cross examine witnesses?
The fish rots from the head down, except in this case it's an elephant that goes by the name 'the Republican party'.
6
However, if public opinion keeps going in the direction it's moving, that would remove the political liability reason for a full vote on an authorization resolution. Heck, you might even get 1 or 2 Republicans to vote yes.
Furthermore, it would be a great chance to lay down more rules. Like for instance that all subpoenas must be obeyed or else the subject will be arrested and detained while they formally fight the subpoena in the federal courts.
2
Impeachment is not the trial, which happens in the Senate. There Trump should be allowed all the benefits of a trial.
Impeachment is more like an indictment.It is charges being brought.
I have never heard of a defense attorney being able to address witnesses as they talk to police. I have never heard of them being part of the Grand Jury Process.
Once the House does its job, the Senate can go through all the motions of a Trial. As that is its constitutional responsibility. As part of that. Trump should be able to depose witnesses before hand, and mount a defense. But not before.
Any attempt to keep the House from collecting evidence is obstruction.
I know the Times loves its bothsiderism. But Trump isn't elected to the House and trying to claim the ability to control those proceedings in an abuse of power itself and a deep violation of the separations of power.
The House is following its rules as it sees fit. Trump has no standing when it comes to the rules of the House. As long as the house goes about its business as defined by the Constitution. Even the courts would be overreaching.
Now if they have a constitutional argument... but that is not the case.
6
Why is Nancy Pelosi not holding a formal House vote on impeachment? Legitimize the process. These delays of the inevitable only result in giving Trump more time to hide and come up with more schemes to avoid impeachment. The majority of Americans now want this rogue President gone.
The House Speaker needs to do her job.
2
@JLR she is afraid she might lose the vote and put all the democrats record.
1
We have a president who refuses orders from the congress and a whole political party who allows for this. There is a lot of talk trying to explain all this but the situation seems pretty clear to me...a president is trying to make himself a dictator and our government is having a lot of difficulty trying to prevent it.
1
Trump's brazen defiance of the law and contemptuous disregard for the impeachment proceedings only shows that even the best of the constitutions and the widely respected rule of law could be subjected to insignificance if the upholders of law themselves turn to be the enemies of law by placing themselves above it.
Impeach first, clean up the rule book later.
This is a time for hardball !
If the tables were turned, how would the Republicans be acting ?
I was curious about FOX News’ defense of Trump, so I turned on the channel.
It was bizarre display of cartoon-like characters spewing lies , conspiracy theories and nonsense, more like a grade-school production. These people are really clutching at straws trying to somehow defend trump’s criminal acts. And, there are bitter divisions there, a few reporters cannot go along with the propaganda.
1
Trump said he would reveal his tax returns.
Trump said he would answer questions in person with Mueller.
Trump said he would do something about the Khashoggi murder once he knew all of the facts.
Trump has no goal posts. The GOP has removed them entirely.
He just keeps crossing the red lines set in our Constitution and looks up to see if the GOP will actually do something about it.
And they don't, so Trump takes another few giants steps into his own corrupt thuggery and he commits more abuses of power.
Right now, Lindsey and Liz Cheney are REALLY mad about the abandonment of the Kurds. Lindsey's face is PURPLE -again.
The GOP is riding its high horses and shouting that they are going to DO something before they return to Trump's sheepfold.
2
We cannot back down from this despot. We MUST use every tool and apply the full force of the legal system to bring this mob boss to justice. The fate of our country depends upon it.
3
The current news gives me migraines. But, as I spin between the NYT and Fox News craziness it's hard not to be thankful for Nancy Pelosi. What a lesson she offers in the importance of political acumen.
3
New York Times Editorial Board, Please stop muddying the waters and shooting Democrats in the feet. There comes a time when you have to fight fire with fire, especially when it is legal to do so. The future of the American republic as a constitutional democracy is at stake. House Democrats owe Trump no more than the constitution and law require. They must pursue a legal scorched-earth strategy to rid the nation of this existential threat to our democratic heritage. I hope the New York Times critically understands its role in this historic political struggle.
2
The Editorial Board taketh away, and giveth -- reversing the usual order of things. This is a weird editorial in which the Editorial Board makes excellent, seriatim arguments for why the House can legally ignore the President's despotic demands, and then reverses itself in the following paragraphs and says "but you should give the President some of these bon mots anyways." Precedent is a dangerous thing, Editorial Board -- be careful what you wish for.
The Democrats should use the Republican playbook and simply impeach Mr. Trump the way they passed that tax bill in December of ‘16. In the middle of the night without anyone having read it.
The Republican party’s hypocrisy and cynicism over the last 25 years has been contemptuous.
1
Mr. Trump has treated the House like the janitorial staff at one of his hotels since it changed hands in 2018....People have refused to testify on matters involving immigration, care of immigrants in custody, what money is being used for that manhood challenged wall he wants and almost any other thing the House needs to do their jobs.
He has behaved like a low IQ Putin and I think the absolute letter of the law is all he deserves..When the impeachment reaches the Senate, and it will, he has plenty of weak people down on their knees proving their loyalty to again, a rather slow and unstable old man.
For somebody who claims "witch hunt" "coup", he sure does not seem able to prove that with more than campaign phrases and generating more hate, anger and divisiveness.
Here is the deal Mr. Trump.....Put up or shut up. The diversions may postpone but reality requires you to behave according to OUR rule of law. Which is the Constitution you apparently neither understand or respect.
This reality show has ceased to be anything but a sad journey to places most Americans will not let you take their country.
3
Trump will never cooperate, no matter what. These are just the tactics he typically has used over his entire lifetime. He has NEVER had to "pay the piper". Ms. Pelosi and the Democrats can show how serious they are by enforcing the subpoena's they have issued - which means having those thumbing their noses at them arrested. It's time to get down into the mud with this criminal.
3
I am shocked by this editorial.
Can the New York Times editors be so completely ignorant of current events as to believe that Trump and his Republican party have any intention of doing anything but stonewalling and running smear campaigns against anything the Democrats do or say?
There is absolutely no reason for the House of Representatives to concede to any of the demands of Trump and his enablers. There are plenty of lawyers among the House Democrats, and if they don't know the law, they can consult the nation's most respected attorneys. They are perfectly capable of making sure the impeachment procedure follows the law.
Conceding to any of the Trump gang's demands will not only lead to further and more extortionate demands; it will undercut the constitutional principle of a government consisting of three coequal branches, one of our nation's most important strengths.
Editors, please resist this toxic plague of both-sides-ism and go back to the constitution. If its writers had meant that a president suspected of high crimes and misdemeanors could dictate the rules for his own impeachment they would have said so.
Am I missing something? It seems that the only way the Board sees that Pelosi can “hit back” is by partially acquiescing to the White House’s specious demand for a floor vote on impeachment and authorizing Trump lackeys to chase conspiracy theories with the full force and backing of Congressional subpoena power. With advice like that, why not just suggest we hold our collective breaths until we turn blue unless Trump decides to behave like a law abiding president!?
Get it together NYT.
2
Though I agree with the overall thrust of this op-ed, the NYT ends the piece with "Trump's misbehavior." Is the NYT short on words to describe Trump's actions? He has committed treason. He has violated his oath of office from his first day in that office. He is a criminal, a grifter, and a traitor in service to another government. Little boys misbehave. Do your work NYT. Use the correct words to describe what's going on. Labeling Trump's crimes "misbehavior" let's him continue the wink and a nod to his base that nothing is really wrong, no crimes here, just me being a bit of a bad boy.
1
Talk about a political hack that does not know the law.
Cipollone's letter is ridiculous ! Trump and these people are desperate to hide and lie and ignore the rule of law. If Don the Con is innocent why does he not reveal, the phone call, his tax returns, his Sat scores, his college transcripts, his medical records, his donations to charity, etc...He is ashamed and guilty of who he is and does not want his cult members to know the real truth! All the other presidents have been forthcoming.
Thomas More: ...And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned around on you--where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast--man's laws, not God's--and if you cut them down...d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.
Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
The issues discussed demonstrate why this impeachment or “coup” attempt is ill timed, wasteful and destructive. Wait for the next election and defeat the man. Otherwise, the country will be put thru the wringer to no apparent purpose. Except, possibly to insulate Nancy Pelosi from the neo Marxists and Muslims in her own party.
1
Trump is no longer capable of presidential conduct or duties as evidenced by statements such as he read a very powerful article today stating that the Kurds never fought in WWII or helped in Normandy, blurting out that he had driven on the wrong side of the road also to defend the diplomatic immunity of driver who killed a young man, he has concocted an array of conspiracy theories beginning with the Birther lie that Obama was born in Kenya which catapulted his name within the GOP base, to claiming that Obama lied about his education, to saying that Mexico sent their worst people to the US including rapists, to bragging that he would build a big, beautiful wall that Mexico was going to pay for, claimed that he had a beautiful health plan which was a big lie although he did his best to overturn Obamacare, cut Medicaid & now less people have health insurance, he criticized John McCain for not being a war hero because he was captured while never enlisted in the military (bone spurs issues), in Oct., 2016, he reiterated that the "Central Park Five" were guilty even though DNA had exonerated them, on Inauguration Day Melania Trump's jewelry line was advertised on Whitehouse.gov, lied about the size of the crowd at his Inauguration, refused to divest from his businesses, his Foundation was ordered to dissolve based on "shocking pattern of illegality", has paid off a stripper & ex-Playboy bunny, claimed there were "good people on both sides" and watched TV instead of doing his job.
3
The third rate tv talk show guy is no match for Speaker Pelosi .
2
The madness of Trump gets worse by the day. He will burn down the house if he has to. The world is agog at American political dysfunctionalism.
1
It should be easy enough for Judge Howell to rule on House demands for documents and testimony WITHOUT a formal House vote. As this piece has noted, the crack White House legal team is sorely lacking in the "rational legal arguments" column. For example, Judge Howell should not need any action from the House to rule that the White House claim of "absolute immunity" has no legal merit.
2
Trump argues that it is fine that he withheld aid to a US ally unless they investigate Trump's political rival. Clearly he used his presidential office to damaged, or threaten to damage a US ally, which would be damaging to US.
I really don't understand why this is not treason.
4
@ANNE IN MAINE
Um, maybe because its not true? Trump never claimed that it was "fine", or that it even happened.
Bit difficult to say he blackmailed the President of Ukraine when the President of Ukraine himself says there was no blackmail or quid pro quo.
Hard to charge someone with abuse of power when the person that was allegedly abused says there was no abuse.
1
The only significant way Pelosi can “hit back” is the budget. Impeachment is only a PR exercise as long as the GOP controls the Senate.
If Pelosi forces a shutdown to curtail Trump, 2020 will elect Trump for four more years. So unless 2020 ousts Trump, America will be a dictatorship indefinitely, run in the background by the Oligarchy of billionaires now in charge.
1
@John✅Brews
Perhaps I am more optimistic about the Senate voting for impeachment than you are. Maybe they just need a good push from their constituents?
How can a G.O.P.-Led Senate panel affirms that Russia attacked the 2016 Election, urge action -- and then sit with their thumbs in their mouths while Trump solicits help from the Ukraine and China?
Isn't one subverted presidential election enough?
1
Unfortunately, the GOP senators aren’t a thinking bunch. They depend upon Trump’s core voters and the unimaginably successful brainwashing apparatus controlling Republicans. So the GOP senators will do what the propagandists ask of them.
2
My daily readings and sometimes comments about the current constitutional crisis always refers back to the Nixon Presidency, not Clinton... For those who don't remember today is the 46th anniversary of the Agnew resignation January 20, 1969 – October 10, 1973. For those who don't remember Agnew's resignation led to the placement of Gerald Ford as Vice President, a more palatable choice to succeed Nixon. How this relates to now is that the current Vice President Mike Pence is surely not in a bubble in the West Wing. I'm not a soothsayer, however, if Pence is also impeached, the next in line for the presidency would be Nancy Pelosi.
4
The WH has declared preemptive obstruction. The House should not bother with letters requesting information - WH has already said it will not comply. The House should go directly to subpoenas, and if the House cannot enforce them through its inherent powers, it should ask the courts to expedite the process, order fines, and compel appearance.
Schiff and other House reps 'threaten' to add another article to the impeachment if the WH does not comply. The prez or the WH lawyers will NOT CARE one bit if another article is added. They WILL care, however, if former staff, State Dept and other agency officials start complying - to provide documents, appear, and testify.
If there is any chance of getting republ votes, the House needs to make the case as strong and complete as possible. A law enforcement agency would not send an incomplete investigation to a prosecutor, and neither should the House.
The House needs to make it impossible to vote 'no'.
7
How ironic that the Democrats are required to rigorously uphold the law. While Trump hides behind it when it is convenient and breaks it when it is not, justifying his contempt for the law by saying that he does have to obey it.
12
There is no good faith effort that anyone (in this world or the next) can extend to these thieves and charlatans that would induce them to behave like decent human beings.
10
The Times is asking all of us to completely ignore what Biden did with regards to that Ukrainian prosecutor. If Biden had just made some trips to Ukraine, and he had no other personal connections there, then the notion that Trump was just "digging up dirt" would be justified. Biden could very well be the Democrat nominee for POTUS. He admitted on national TV that he strong armed the Ukrainian govt, holding back 1 billion, to have that prosecutor fired - which would just so happen to protect his son. Hunter was being paid 50k per month for a position he was totally unqualified to hold, never mind he was just kicked out of the Naval Reserves for cocaine use just weeks before. That is not a conspiracy theory, nor has it been debunked. Those are the facts. So, were not allowed to ask? How could that be investigated? The FBI cant just waltz into a foreign country and conduct an investigation. Democrats and their media friends are asking us to ignore the obvious elephant in the room. This is just as bad as asking us to not believe Hillary didnt put that server in her house to keep her email conversations from govt scrutiny. In other words, they are asking us to not believe our own eyes and ears. That will end badly, just as it did in 2016, with deer in the headlights look on the face of every Democrat pundit on TV.
4
@Sports Medicine
You're conveniently ignoring the fact that Biden was acting as one of a group of multiple nations (all NATO BTW) making the same demands.
There is a false equivalency between what Biden legally did and what Trump illegally did.
16
Even if your version of the actions of Hunter Biden in Ukraine were correct (and there is no evidence at this point supporting you) the President of the United States of America has at his disposal several of the most powerful and skilled investigative agencies on the planet fully capable of investigating Biden. It is unlawful for Trump to bypass domestic law enforcement and instead assign to foreign investigators or foreign governments the task of investigating an American citizen. Americans have rights when they are under investigation, and there are standards regarding things like chain of evidence, Miranda rights, interrogation methods, etc., which foreign investigators are not bound by. Would you be happy if the government decided to have the KGB investigate you instead of the FBI?
3
@Sports Medicine
Perhaps you need some new sources of information? https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/oct/02/donald-trumps-accusations-about-hunter-biden-and-c/
1
I'm looking forward to Madame Speaker availing herself of the power of Inherent Contempt. I hope she's already booked enough jail space in DC for all of tRump's henchmen.
9
Trump by himself is bad enough. He would be a has-been, or on his way to jail, instead of wreaking worldwide havoc, were it not for the utter complicity of the Republican Party and the inability of many organs of influence (ahem) to make this clear.
8
WW III seems to be starting -- and on top of that, there's the Bloomberg Bombshell! Impeach TOMORROW at 9am. Please don't wait for the weekend!
4
This isn't a coup, it's regicide. Just ask Ingraham and Rudy's pal Joe. That revealing piece of theatre clearly demonstrates the GOP's hopes for the Country and Fox News' dreams for Trump.
6
Between all of this plus his eating habits and weight, I am surprised Trump hasn’t had a coronary.
( He certainly has heart problems—§even if not yet healthcare health problems!)
2
What is Trump but a mob boss? A line from the Untouchables comes up to mind:
"He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue!"
Organize a vote but a vote on a formal censure of the President for obstructing Congress and move the inquiry forward.
6
Trump is demanding a vote on impeachment in the House. Any fool can see why. Republicans will naturally toe the line against it. Then Trump can say "See, it's t's just another Democrat witch hunt!". But Nancy is a pro. He'll have to get up a bit earlier in the morning to try that one on her.
6
I'm so tired of conversations about process. Why aren't you calling for his resignation?
6
As long as the criminal Trump is obstructing the impeachment investigation, NO concessions should be given him or his legal team, period. It’s fine laying out all the “what if’s “, but giving him any leeway is playing by HIS playbook, and one criminal a rogue branch of government is quite enough at a time, ladies and gentlemen. He’s a bully, kicking and screaming on the playground. He won’t stop till he’s knocked down. KNOCK HIM DOWN, Ms. Pelosi!
8
Pelosi et al look weak. Where are the Dem pit bulls from the past? trump is bullying them. Again. Pelosi should have retired. We need some young blood.
2
These procedural arguments are just a lot of dust Trump's lawyers are kicking up to deflect attention from his criminal behavior. This is a favorite Trump tactic: never defend, always counterattack. However, the use of such strategies inevitably fails, because if you leave yourself open to attack enough, eventually, you will blow yourself up.
5
You cannot prove a negative.
1
To conform the headline with the editorial, change it to something like, Trrump Wants a Fight. Pelosi Should Compromise.
The Sargent-At-Arms needs to be told to go arrest those that refuse subponeas. It's time.
7
There go the Dems again bringing a tote bag to the knife fight.
With all due respect: you are faced with a dictator in waiting and his court of minions.
Don’t for a second believe they will follow any rules.
Call out in no uncertain terms to the American people that Trump, Fox and the Reps are overthrowing the same Constitution they claim to love.
6
It is amazing that we have Trump dictating to the congress but their has always been this form of procedure.
It has happened many times before that's why Trump and his lackeys are pursuing this position.
It's time to make our laws and behavior more concrete in the rule of law. Follow procedures to insured that nobody can get away with their indiscretions.
Everything about Trump is to manipulate the law. Even his lackeys don't care.
When you are a egoist and a narcissistic person you try to circumvent all of the law for your personnel gains.
Impeach this man he is not our elected president.
4
An intelligent man could have avoided Pelosi's well-tempered wrath. But Trump is too ignorant to know the Rubicon is a narrow stream.
3
Pelosi should ask herself What would Mitch do? and do that. And perhaps make a nice blue rubber bracelet with WWMD? on it. She could send them to the GOP members of the House and Senate and a small one to the White House.
1
As a Trump supporter (and prior Obama voter), I think this whole impeachment thing is great.
It means Biden is going to lose the primary. If not corrupt, his family certainly engaged in self dealing. How else do you explain his clueless son earning millions leading a Ukrainian gas company? When he knows nothing about Ukraine. And nothing about energy. Biden is already tanking in the polls after Trump’s attacks.
That leaves Warren. And we all know the Rust Belt will not vote for a uber liberal, geeky ex-Harvard female professor. Especially when she has racially misappropriated Native American identity for decades and only apologies after Trump forced her into a DNA test. She has been defined and we can expect to hear “Pocahontas” relentlessly.
4
Playing "fair" with this guy, only opens the door to a stab in the back or a kick in the teeth. There is no "fair' with this guy. - C
4
A very well written article, but I strong disagree with your recommendation that the Democrats afford Mr. Trump the vote or procedural precautions afforded to Nixon and Clinton. Trump's crimes rise to the level of treason--he is actively colluding with hostile foreign powers right now as we speak. He is running an ongoing criminal conspiracy that seemingly involves multiple high-ranking officials across our federal government.
The House should not be affording this criminal any concessions. Instead, it should be utilizing every authority it has to drag him and his cronies, and their texts, and their documents, into the light of day so that Americans can fully see the malfeasance being perpetrated. This is serious. We need action immediately.
1230
@Todd if they don't give Trump a vote the senate can claim impeach claim is not valid and out order because of a lack a proper procedure and biased rules.
10
@plainleaf there would be no basis, however, for such a claim. Even with a vote, the GOP senate is likely to claim it is invalid. Don't cede an inch.
139
@Todd
It is preferable to preserve procedural evenhandedness, and it may have the bonus of letting Trump's defense condemn itself.
25
No vote, no more concessions. The White House and this administration is in contempt of the House. It is not up for debate. The Constitution is very clear on the matter. So arrest and impeach this President if he refuses to comply. Period.
2
"Democrats need to honor basic fairness..." Does Trump? A Senate trial presided over by the Chief Justice is where fairness is afforded.
1
Trump's entire universe only exists in the quid-pro-quo galaxy. If Pelosi gives him a floor vote, he'll cooperate. “We would if they give us our rights.” But there's no quid pro quo on Planet Putin, Planet GOP or Planet Giuliani.
3
That Trump committed bribery and obstruction of justice, is now, for all intent and purpose, a fact already admitted by the vulgar bully in the Oval Office. By not impeaching him, democrats would be committing political malpractice...and a disservice to the people electing them. As to why Trump's 'base' remains mute and deaf, defending his 'crime', is unbelievable.
4
This is a public street fight and the side that conveys better messages will prevail.
The letter is propaganda designed to sway a largely uninformed population with simple to understand messages. It's legal or constitutional merit are irrelevant. It's an attempt to turn a bad tide of public opinion which has warmed to impeachment.
Easily countered by Democrats if they get on the same page with clear, easy to understand messages like these:
"Innocent people with nothing to hide don't fear an open, public investigation. Only a person who knows he us guilty would fear that."
"If the president is innocent, why is he blocking an open, public investigation that is part of our Constitution? Is he guilty?"
"What is Donald Trump hiding from the American people? Only guilty people hide."
Repeat the word "guilty" endlessly and drive him crazy.
The public can't stand him anyway.
Give them fuel for their suspicion and disgust.
6
Remember when Congressional Republicans called President Obama "king". Maybe if Republicans could be honest they would re-name the party "The Cruel and Hypocritical Party".
3
NYT Editors simply don't want to admit that sometimes the police really do have to use their guns. Not every criminal drops their weapon and puts their hands up.
So, this is an easy one--the criminal is not cooperating and needs to be subdued. The House can go ahead and do what they want, on their own terms, unless and until the Supreme Court tells them otherwise. If the House wants to appropriately respond to the idiotic letter and its silly demands, they should just up the ante with a direct accusation of federal crimes committed by the President and his staff, detailing examples and pointing out the lack of indictments by the DOJ, point to a coverup and corruption. Put them in contempt and start the fines and jailing. Raise the bar, don't capitulate.
2
I've been reading the letter that the Trump administration has written to the House , while eating a sandwich in downtown. It is hard to believe that such document comes out of the White House and that it is supposed to be president Trump's central defense piece during the impeachment inquiry.
President Trump seems to be ignorant about what it means to be the president of the United States and still, millions of Americans continue to adore him. It is incredibly sad, because it proves that even when you are a thief and agangster, you're coming away with it from the moment that you're occupying a high position.
4
I just hope that by House Dems now demanding testimony from Fiona Hill , the NSA specialist on Russia that Democrats will hit Trump with impeachment for treason. No president would want to go down as being impeached for treason. Not even Trump. It would force his GOP enablers to public state they do not put country first. Time for Nancy P. and crew to take the gloves off.
3
Why the hard time saying that the Executive is in a state of rebellion?
This fight / hit back title is the exact language that Trump wants to hear: a TV show instead of an outright rebellion, a childish title for a serious problem.
And by the way, the more time it goes on, the more acceptable it becomes. Trump has been winning not inch by inch but mile by mile by these acts of delay. Not another Muller essay please. Impeach hard and impeach fast.
Trump is incompetent, but is an incompetent tyrant that is strong enough to have the country against the wall (or the precipice really). Do not help him with this silly language.
1
Tonight there are reports that Trump asked Rex Tillerson to pressure the Justice Department to free a billion dollar money launderer supported by Turkey who was aiding Iran in obtaining billions of dollars- defeating the US sanctions. This is another act of treason- illegal and impeachable. Couple this with the abandonment of the Kurds- strengthening ISIS in Syria- and again treason comes to mind.
So yes, Congress can fight back- but will the country stand up???
2
If indeed, We the People, fail our attempt to remove this version of King George..then we must NOW pledge..."Our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor....."
3
Just to clarify: Trump was not really asking Zelensky to investigate Biden. Rather, he wanted someone in the Ukraine government to read a prepared statement written by the White House accusing Biden of being a crook.
1
I wonder: Did the highly-paid lawyer who wrote this letter excuse the bogus arguments it contained by the creed that any lie is acceptable in the service of one’s criminal client? Did this highly-paid lawyer give a second’s thought to his or her own contribution to the degradation of truth, justice, and the American Way (no sarcasm intended)? What kind of people use their professional expertise to contribute to the downfall of their own country? In another sphere, society would call them prostitutes. But that is to unfairly impugn prostitutes, whose harm, if it exists, is infinitesimal compared to that of the brilliant, amoral, abettors of the president.
3
"Mr. Cipollone raised three main challenges to the inquiry: It was not authorized by a vote of the full House of Representatives; the Democratic leadership has not provided Mr. Trump with any due-process protections; and House Republicans have not been given the power to issue subpoenas of their own.
It’s worth addressing each of these challenges in turn"
EDITORS - I cannot find your explanation of #3, about giving Republicans power to issue subpoenas. I do not understand what this concept is about, and I am disappointed that you did not address it. Please update this article.
@Brooks
I think you missed it. In the third paragraph from the end they talk about those rights being afforded in the Senate because that's where the trial occurs. The House's role is more akin to a grand jury where those rights are not afforded to the defendant.
2
Trump’s conduct is an immediate danger. His presence in the White House places America and the free world at much higher risk of irreversible authoritarian rule.
Trump and his traitorous Republican cohort are an extreme danger who dream of a world where they can steal freely from public coffers and imprison their critics. The Truth is their enemy.
3
Dear Democrats,
Not only is this the time for profiles in courage, but also an opportunity to teach America how our system of government, Rule of Law and democracy work.
Many Americans have no clue about the Constitutional responsibility of the House of Representatives. Zip! Now is the time to be VERY specific, taking impeachment, the procedures of impeachment, the evidence of guilt straight to We, the People.
Finally, you must get the message out that the impeachment inquiry and eventual vote to impeach is not about “over turning” the 2016 election but the Rule of Law, our Constitution and safeguarding our democracy!
Godspeed! Impeach the criminal, hold Donald J Trump accountable for:
Obstruction of justice, emoluments clause violations, extortion of a foreign leader, etc., etc.,etc.!
5
@Mari "...to teach America how our system of government, Rule of Law and democracy work. "
"...Impeach the criminal,..."
Don't forget the whole "innocent, until proven guilty".
Current state of affairs:
“Impeachment is political not legal; Impeachable offenses are whatever the House says.”
WH: “This impeachment process is political, we’re not playing.”
“WH is being political, no one is above the law. Obstructing our political process is impeachable offense.”
Also:
“Impeachment is like an indictment not a trial so no due process is fine.”
WH: “Administration will remain silent by not providing information/testimony.”
“Remaining silent is evidence of guilt and also an additional crime.”
1
And now the battle begins. What we will learn over the coming months is just how extreme the GOP has become because at the end of the day they are what stands between this president from being impeached and convicted and becoming the worlds most powerful dictator.
And by GOP i mean not only currently serving but also the party elders. This is America's moment of truth and we will soon learn just how corrupted the party of the Koch brothers has become.....
4
Yes, it strains all credulity to hear Trump talking about how he wanted to address corruption in Ukraine and how impeachment is illegal and unfair.
When even Fox News polling has more than 50% of Americans wanting you impeached and removed from office, you know that these flimsy excuses aren't going to hold water with anyone except for your diminishing hard core.
3
Pelosi wants a fight, Trump can hit back, and he is. Trump 2020.
Anyone who cooperates with Trump becomes complicit in his crimes.
4
Trump is sure sounding like a king. I thought we went to war to fight against this back in the 1700’s.
4
Thanks and maybe the writer of this piece can Tweet 24/7 and go on Fox and consult with the House.
1
Put aside the "niceties"...the White House has done that repeatedly. Subpoena and use "contempt of Congress" to the fullest extent possible...up to, and including, arrest and suspension of funding. Bullies see attempts at "fairness" and " "reasonableness" as weakness and will only push the bar higher. Also, please stop with the false equivalences. This is not Democrats vs Republicans. It is the Constitution and "Checks and Balances" against an increasingly lawless Executive branch.
2
Arrest those who ignore subpoenas. Plain and simple. Send the sergeants-at-arms and put them in jail.
Democrats, please: Time for Hardball. No retreats, no surrender.
2
To the Members of the House of Representatives. Since the POTUS wants to challenge the rule of law concerning his conduct and representation of OUR country please consider adding a small coveat to the impeachment penalties by stripping the POTUS of all monetary, medical and pension benefits, security details and extraneous renumerations if found guilty.
1
If Trump wins in his game of chicken government is changed forever in America. What is amazing to me is that the Republicans never heard of the saying What Goes Around Comes Around. Are they so delusional in their quest to stay in lockstep with Trump that one day the power won't go back to the Dems? The Right is betting on if power ever changes The Dems will be their old spineless selves. I sense the anger is such with Trump that the Dems are bloodthirsty. Pelosi is going to have to pull out all of the stops to stop the Bully, Trump. She can't keep expecting Trump to play nice.
2
You cannot defy reality for long Mr. President, you cannot hold an entire nation’s imagination in coup to your flawed thoughts and actions.
2
Load of cobblers: there is only one issue and it is this -
Why is Pelosi afraid to hold a House vote on impeachment?
Trump is directly calling her bluff and nothing anybody writes here or elsewhere means anything until the vote is scheduled. The rest is sophistry, evasion or distraction. Like the entire content of this Editorial. How many people spent how long circuitously discussing what to write here, but avoid THE issue, the elephant in the room: the VOTE. Pathetic. Grow up, all of you. Earn your salaries and tell Pelosi in another Editorial to schedule a VOTE. Nothing else matters.
Until there is a VOTE, this publication, Pelosi, Schiff, the Democrats and never Trumpers can all go pound sand.
3
There is no such thing.
You know that, right?
The Constitution says nothing about any requirement for a “vote” to start impeachment proceedings. The vote on articles of impeachment comes at the end of the investigative hearings.
This editorial explains that the things voted upon early in the Nixon and Clinton proceedings regarded procedural things that were later on incorporated into House Rules, so are no longer anything that need to be haggled over or voted on.
But hey, here’s an idea:
If Mitch McConell will call a vote on Merrick Garland, then Pelosi will call a vote on impeachment!
1
The best way to determine whether the Democratic House majority should subject the impeachment question to a vote of the full House is to ask: What would the Republicans do if they were in the majority? The answer is clear and self-evident. They would ignore any considerations of due process and never allow such a vote. Indeed, their fascist of a president wouldn't permit them to. So let the Republicans whine. The Democrats should follow the example of Mitch McConnell in breaking precedent and not allowing a vote on Judge Garland. The Democrats should not permit this optional vote that is not required by the Constitution.
4
The only headline I want to see from the EB is the call for the resignation of the president, followed by the call to separate what’s left of this country from the rump state of the Confederacy. No violence would be necessary and I say to the Trump followers in the Blue States: vote with your feet, you all know how the Red States view borders, so act now.
3
I find it interesting that Trump and the GOP should be making the argument that Trump deserves his 'rights' in an impeachment inquiry. The problem is that impeachment is not an indictment and there is certainly no adjudication in a court, so constitutional rights don't apply.
Basically, Trump and the Republicans need to make a choice: 1) Trump has conducted criminal acts and therefore should be in court in front of a jury and thus be entitled to his constitutional rights, or 2) Admit that this is an impeachment inquiry (with none of the associated rights for criminal trials) and stop talking.
2
"Each time, the House has set its own ground rules. The Constitution prescribes no specific process, nor does federal law."
"This requires Congress to be rigorous in setting out the rules for conducting an inquiry."
It sounds like the House can make up the rules as they go. Not a good idea. Because every new rule will be met with a challenge from the President, as a "separation of powers" issue". That sends it to the SCOTUS. If the House opts for previous iterations, the Republicans will be able to participate at a greater level.
Just a thought, when was the last time the Democrats, by their own powers, beat or won convincingly, in any matter with the President? The Democrats do best when they have a willing judge in their corner. But, when the Democrats lost, they always looked outclassed. My money is on the President.
MAGA 2020. And, beyond.
The barrage of absurd demands and hysterical rhetoric coming from the White House and Republicans indicates the desperation of an administration with a lot to cover up, a lot more than the Ukraine affair.
5
Agree with the Editorial Board.
And now, Trump's shiny new object is withdrawing troops from northern Syria and giving Turkey the okay to go after the Kurds
This is a big deal. Our allies are going to get killed. Trump and the Republicans own this.
6
No kowtowing to the king of fraud: to give in to his demands would be like giving up our country to mad king George 3rd, “the man who lost America.” The revolutionaries would not tolerate a government without representation nor should we.
For this pyrite unprincipled philanderer to think he is above the law is an anathema to the values on which this country was founded. Enough of his dissembling, enough of his dithering, enough of his destruction of our country.
Democrats do your duty and stand up yo your Constitutional oath to protect and defend our nation against enemies both foreign and domestic. Trump has betrayed our allies, our values, and his constitutional oath of office. He must be held to account because he has shown himself to be guilty of high crimes. Time for a reckoning.
3
As long as Trump is talking about precedent during the Clinton impeachment, consider this:
The Republicans set the precedent that a president can be impeached for lying under oath, even if the lie has nothing to do with presidential action ( in Clinton's case, it was about his sex life). Trump lies all the time. The House should search the records and see whether he was under oath on any of those occasions. If so, impeachment should be perfectly legitimate.
As far "overturning Trump's election", this is ridiculous. Hillary Clinton won the election, and it was overturned by the Electoral College. Impeachment as just as Constitutional as the College.
3
Long as she does it legally and with a trusted team, Miss Nancy will prevail.
2
For two years I have been listening to Nancy Pelosi talk [almost to the point of boasting] about her "Power" as Speaker. Not an interview passes without her mentioning this- ad nauseam.
Well Nancy, the time has come.. We know you can talk the talk.. but can you walk the walk?
1
The House should ignore any requests by a clearly corrupt and criminal president. To do so would be to acknowledge that Trump has any degree of legitimacy in his brazen attempts at judicial distraction.
2
It's time for congress to cut to the chase. Mr. Trump's disdain for congress is unnerving; absolutely astonishing: if not addressed in a timely, resolute and dignified (all the character that Donald trump lacks) manner forebodes ill for the future of democratic government for our country. His actions in domestic and foreign affairs do not serve us well. He can not focus on global warming, an issue that brings dire consequences for us all if not addressed presently. Instead Trump engages in thuggery, the intimidation of foreign officials and the U. S. congress itself. No longer is it wise to allow him to be our Chief executive. This is a crisis of the here and now which extends into the future well being of our country and the even the planet. Donald Trump has nether the moral character nor the imagination for the job. He has been in the job long enough that his crass brand of interaction is demeaning and often so narrowly self serving that it stupid . He needs to be gone and this IS rocket science.
1
Pelosi has said she will not challenge the Trumps administration in court over Adam Schiff little legal letters he sends to people telling them to testify but they are not allowed to bring their own legal counsel.
Oh well... Pelosi isn't about to bring a vote to the house floor either. Smells just like political shenanigans by the Democrats again. Hows that Russia Collusion going? Adam Schiff still has all the evidence he claims.
3
Many pundits note that a House vote might imperil freshmen Representatives from purple districts. No one seems to consider impact of a vote on vulnerable Republicans from districts where people are sick and tired of a corrupt would be autocrat.
3
It is important for democratic leadership to understand they are in a street fight. Yes, they are operating under the guidelines of the US Constitution. But in the meme wars, they must fight without restraint. Their republican enemies are traitors, actual and documented traitors. They must be tagged as such repeatedly until the words 'republican party' and 'traitor' become interchangeable in the American mind.
3
Shakedown Don it's just doing business as he understands it.
2
Any comment on Trump strong-arming Ukraine for dirt on a private citizen? You must not have been around for the absurdities surrounding Clinton's impeachment. Lindsey Graham was explicit in saying that by defying legal Congressional oversight that he impeached himself. The same logic no longer applies. As a resident of Chicago, you seem to relish in Mob like behavior.
Do not give Trump or Republicans an inch. These are dishonest people working to help each other.
3
I got an education as why Pellosi wants to ask for info without a formal impeachment vote.
1) an informal inquiry does not require POTUS to cooperate
2) POTUS has no rights in an informal procedure
3) an official impeachment gives POTUS rights that can't be violated.
The Dems are trying to play both sides of the fence and Trump ain't buying it. Dems, impeach him if you want and look like the fools you continue to be.
1
These are the sorts of meek suggestions that will result in nothing. Democrats have the power to jail people who defy subpoenas and cut off funding to departments as needed to secure cooperation. When will Pelosi et al do this? When will the Times editorial board get behind it? When will the news department even present this dimension of the story with strength and clarity?
1
In all fairness, Cipollone didn't have much with which to work. As the old saying goes, "If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the facts are against you, argue the law. If both the law and the facts are against you, pound the table."
His fists must be mighty sore; it'll be a wonder if he didn't break any bones.
3
Why is she afraid to call a vote ?
Will she OK an investigation of Biden’s som as well ?
Let’s hope partisan politics wanes and they really go after corruption on. It’s sides
2
This is just a thought, but were Trumps actions in relation to Ukraine more than seeking “dirt” on Joe Biden? If the Biden’s really were blameless and this conspiracy theory unfounded, was Trump actually blackmailing the Ukrainian President to “find” evidence of wrongdoing by the Biden’s regardless of whether any existed? That is, to invent or make up false evidence - the kind of evidence that may not be able to be “found” through normal opposition research?
Do you remember, during his campaign in 2015-2016, Trump proclaiming “I love the uneducated!” ?
This letter from the White House is a hot mess of falsehood, errors and deliberate contortions of the constitutional reality Trump is facing. Why would they produce such an atrocious document which constitutional scholars and legal experts across the land are shredding to pieces?
They are counting on their “base” to know nothing about the truth of the actual impeachment process.
They are counting on their “base” to form an opinion based on what they hear on Fox News.
They are counting on their “base” to believe every word they wrote, just because.
They are counting on their “base” to not care that they are flat wrong in what they demand, since right or wrong no longer matter, just winning.
They are counting on their “base” not to even bother doing the slightest bit of personal research on impeachment to find out the truth about the procedure for themselves. Heck- even Wikipedia would work in this case!
So the American public must hope and pray that this time they have overplayed their hand. This time, as the recent impeachment poll numbers are showing, some folks in their “base” will demonstrate an ability to put country before party. Some folks will say “not so fast wise guy” and back the necessary inquiry to determine if the President of the United States is using the power of his office towards personal objectives. Some folks will say “I know better.”
4
You don't negotiate with a nihilist like Trump. As correctly noted in the article, even if Pelosi granted every demand in the White House letter, Trump will respond to requests from the House just like he has been doing all along. To trust Trump on any transaction is to fool yourself.
5
Fairness? Don't make me laugh, what fairness?
This whole mess is about Trump getting into survival mode, ready to do a lot of damage to all of us and the world, to save his skin.
Pelosi knows it, and she also knows that a bottom feeder like Trump will throw everyone under the bus to save himself. She is counting on it. I would.
4
Let’s face it- trump believes he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and get away Scott free- before he was president. Now??
Nancy should hold him in contempt and arrest him - that would be something.
( And prepare yourself- even if he was filmed shooting someone on 5th Avenue- most of the GOP would not vote against him. )
1
Speaker Pelosi, no need for tug-of-war. Go ahead and ignore WH letter. It is a delay tactic. Proceed against this person who is breaking the law and destroying our democracy, and his crafty enablers. I believe the American people don't want to be fooled any longer and our national security is increasingly jeopardized and compromised by these unworthy buffoons.
1
Heaven help us if the Republic depends on the ability of the editorial board of the Times get to the point.
The House has the power of impeachment.
It is none of the President’s business. Or the senate’s. Or the supreme court’s.
Here is how I know:
“The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.”
I read the Constitution. Aren’t I smart.
The president’s extraconstitutiinal claim that he can ignore the House because he has given himself a share of the impeachment power is grounds for swift impeachment on its own as a knowing and premeditated refusal to follow the constitution and also because the claim is not sane and also because his officers are so corrupt in their scorning constitional duties that the republic is in immediate danger.
No Ukraine. No obstructuon of justice so successful Mueller was unable to find if Trump conspired with Russia. Bring those counts later.
Andyet the Times goes and running and immediately finds a Harvard Professor to tell us this is too “meta” to matter. Thanks Harvard. Where would we be with out you? Better to be sure.
It would be wise of the House—not that I expect wisdom from the leadership as they have shown none yet—to play fair as on trial the senate of republicans will turn the rules into their excuse not to convict aided by Justice Roberts. But they are gonna do that anyway. That is all allowed by the constitution.
Trump has basically said. I am God, do not question me. Americans have to wake up and realize that they have legal means to remove a complete nut case from the presidency.
We all know this is NOTHING but political theater, Trump is going nowhere and that is not in dispute--this is ALL about the 2020 election--weaponizing impeachment for political gains with the hope/fantasy it will help the Dems in 2020. It will not, this is going to backfire on the Dems, but when you know that you currently don't have a candidate that can beat Trump, how pathetic is that, you go desperate--desperate times call for desperate measures. Obvious question, if "the trust of the American people in their government at stake" why in the world would the Dems not simply take the vote!?? With sooo much high drama (nonsense) at stake just take the vote, I mean, what is more important some Dems showing their hand and possibly losing in their next election in areas with Trump supporters or our "government being at stake?" Golly gee Dems, the refusal to vote seems to be more about losing a few elections compared to the stake of our government!? The horror! Something is not adding up here? Just like it didn't add up in the profoundly important "collusion" nonsense, something is awfully fishy in the swamp--AGAIN.
4
I force myself to switch to Fox "news" on occasion to ensure I grog what Trump's base is hearing. Recently, I held my nose to watch Laura Ingraham and guests discuss the Cipollone letter. They treated it as if it's a shocking court decision that came down solidly in favor of Trump.
Much of Trump's base may believe that Cipollone's odd defense of unquestioned executive authority is the antidote to the Mueller report and the current Ukranian impeachment debacle.
Pelosi's privilege, as the only adult in the room. (a.k.a the "Marilyn Munster" strategy -- the only normal one).
1
The only "protection" deserved by any member of the administration is in the Constitution, the Fifth Amendment. The rest is all nonsense.
1
All it takes for authoritarianism to replace a democracy is for good men to do nothing. This voter sees Nancy Pelosi speaking up for America while too many men hold their tongues.
An even more damning call is the one Trump made apparently from the safety of his residence with Turkish President Erdogan that green-lighted his invasion of northern Syria, his betrayal of our most loyal ally and "boots on the ground" that defeated ISIS--the Kurds, and now threatens their very survival. This seems a monstrous criminal abuse of power that flies in the face of our national security interests and could lead to a massacre akin to ethnic cleansing that would rise to the level of a "crime against humanity." It is so outrageous that even Republicans led by Trump loyalist Sen. Lindsey Graham are alarmed and outspoken in their strong opposition. Speaker Pelosi would be well advised to expand the current impeachment inquiry to include the phone conversation with Erdogan and the even graver implications it has for the Kurds and our national interests. This demands such action and would, if it becomes an article of impeachment, force Senate Republicans to confront their own rhetoric or else appear as hypocrites complicit in Trump's criminal actions.
And with a petition to the United States Supreme Court.
It is time the House bundled all the refused subpoenas with the White House letter into a petition to the SCOTUS to hear directly a consolidated case seeking to direct the president to comply with the constitution forthwith.
Enough dillying and dallying.
Take it o the court and let's see whether the strict constitutionalists are justices or procurers for Trump.
There is now ample basis for a direct petition to the high court.
2
A few observations:
1) Nothing Trump or the Republicans say should be treated as legitimate or credible until proven. They are far past the point where they should get the benefit of any doubt.
2) Trump and the GOP have demonstrated that they do not feel bound by the rule of law. The Department of Justice under Barr has been thoroughly compromised. The Supreme Court? If not, it isn't for lack of GOP efforts.
3) GOP leadership has demonstrated that they will do nothing to rein Trump in - they will instead try to justify his actions, even double down on every outrage. Shameless barely begins to cover it.
4) This is not going to be pretty. Trump knows no limits when he feels threatened. He is morally incompetent - he has no sense of right or wrong. His lies and insults will only get worse; he will become increasingly unhinged.
5) Any attempts by Democrats at compromise or 'reasonable' accommodation will be seized on as a sign of weakness and taken as far as they can be stretched.
6) This is going to be all Calvinball from the Trump side; rules, rigor, and resolution from the Democrats will be rendered irrelevant if at all possible. Previous impeachment proceedings offer no guide this time around.
(https://calvinandhobbes.fandom.com/wiki/Calvinball )
7) There's a fair chance the 25th Amendment might yet come into play - or would if there was any integrity left on the GOP side.
All bets are off at this point. Fasten your seatbelts. Pedal to the metal, Democrats. It's war.
2
Madame Speaker might throw them a very small, insignificant bone, but otherwise it's time to play hardball. It's her world now, and republicans are just living in it.
3
Just do SOMETHING and not just talk or write about it. We need our elected officials to do what we elected them to do-protect us. This is an outrage. Do something for real today! America needs you now!!
1
Pelosi now admits she will not challenge the Trump administration over refusing to comply with Adam Schiff invitation to testify letters.
Ukraine President just blew her and Schiffs claim about quid pro quo and pressuring him to investigate Biden. Ukrainian President says this is not so. Maybe Pelosi and Schiff better subpoena the Ukrainian President.
1
Pelosi set us up for Trump when she signaled her intent early in the asylum crisis to put the interests of central American teenagers ahead of the interests of the American people. Her view was to take them for their (coached) word and give them bus tickets to wherever. The country has been torn apart by this issue. That is not much of a legacy for a Speaker of the House.
Her salvation is that her opponent in this national calamity, Trump, is a bigger threat to us than she is. By the way, the Jalisco Boys, who imported copious quantities of Mexican heroin that destroyed so many young Americans, are being supplanted by Chinese fentanyl importers. Now they are unemployed and need a champion. Someone like Nancy Pelosi.
1
@The Ghost of G. Washington - Looks like your hate goes a long way - to the point of intentional distraction.
Let's stay on the subject: A process is in place and being pursued, and Trump can't stand it. In the words of a long-ago writer, Trump is kicking his heels, his neck encircled by a rope.
1
Trump has been psychotic for years. His illness has escalated as the pressures of his office increased. The signs are clear. He must be ousted from the Presidency now. The Republican party's leadership surely has at least a glimmer of his illness. When will they put the country before party?
3
Why doesn't Pelosi call for a vote on impeachment? Seems like the democratic thing to do.
1
The tables have turned. Now the Democrats are able to use Trump's signature phrase LOCK Him Up. Please get a vote on the impeachment inquiry Madame Speaker. Let's begin the process.
2
The Bloomberg News story yesterday about Trump leaning on Tillerson to free the gold trader friend of Erdogan accused of laundering billions for Iran indicates an administration rotten to the core.
Where are all the WH staffers and State Dept staffers in this? They've been turning a blind eye, or worse, enabling, this behavior for almost three years.
Where are the patriots?
2
If democrats given in to any republican demands, the administration will just come up with more demands. They will NEVER cooperate. Democrats should hit back now with a blizzard of accusations to the effect that WH strategy is "99% based on lunatic gibberish,."
1
Bring it. Let the circus begin. Fun to watch the Dems start their own version of a Dumpster Fire just before the 2020 campaigns. Gonna be great to watch the candidates have to deal with this. I couldn't be happier.
3
The president's refusal to engage with a coequal branch of government isn't just an affront to the Constitution. It isn't just another example of Trump's petulant, childish tantrums (Pelosi, Schiff and Romney should all be impeached!). It isn't just another example of Trump fighting any effort to hold him accountable (tax returns, Mueller inquiry, school marks, failure to divest).
While the process goes on, this president continues to act in bizarre, unpredictable and potentially damaging ways. The snap decision, at Erdogan's request, to abandon the Kurds. The maze of conflicting signals on trade talks with China. The North Korea farce. U.N. dues. The up is down, black is white fight with California and automakers on lessening emission standards. The big, beautiful, rapidly progressing (though apparently invisible) border wall.
Donald Trump has largely avoided accountability for his cons and failures throughout his life. He manages this by being utterly shameless, by using lawyers to delay endlessly, and by steadfastly promoting a completely false narrative to counteract the truth. It's a simplistic, transparent strategy. So far, it has worked even at the highest levels of American governance. The longer it continues, the greater the chance Trump's bone stupid running of the country and the free world will lead to catastrophe.
4
"a resolution in support of the inquiry could also lay out specific ground rules, which could enhance the legitimacy of the inquiry in the minds of Americans."
Give it up. NOTHING will affect "the minds" of trump's zombie followers--they have no brains left. They have given them over to trump to fill with his lies and egotistical nonsense. They will never be persuaded of his villainy. There is no way to get through to them. So don't waste time on it--time is what he wants--so he can hope to be re-elected before the impeachment is finished and he is swept into the trash heap of history. trump zombies will never be able to see legitimacy of the process or his corruption.
2
Since when is the US Constitution like a buffet table?
The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
— Article I, Section 2, Clause 5
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
- 2nd Amendment
2
What matters most here is how the American public view the process. For that reason only, not a matter of constitutional law which favors the House doing what it danged well pleases procedurally, it makes sense to give the minority party a right to subpoena and call witnesses. The charade will heighten in the Senate, but it's best to get all the Trumpians' lame arguments in front of the public before taking an impeachment vote. Once the public sees how ridiculous the counterclaims really are, and see through the smokescreen, public support will pass 60%
1
I realize there are limitations of space—
But this editorial often sounds like a split personality:
"And yet it may be a mistake for the Democrats to . . ."
"Still, there are good reasons to grant Mr. Trump . . ."
Stop hedging in such a lopsided and dire situation.
2
@srwdm The editorial board clearly recognizes the political risk in having the impeachment process appear to be a partisan attempt to overturn Mr. Trump’s election. Calling a vote and giving the Republicans subpoena rights will help to deflect that criticism, even (especially?) if Mr. Trump then moves the goalposts and throws additional obstructions up. Right now, the Democrats are in defensive mode on this point, and Mr. Trump is winning the battle for public opinion (which is the only battle that counts in this instance).
It’s becoming clear that the Democrats have mishandled the process and underestimated Mr. Trump’s political instincts and will to fight and win. Mr. Schiff gave the administration an opening with his unnecessary theatrics embellishing the transcript of Mr. Trump’s Ukraine call. Ms. Pelosi played obvious politics by refusing to conduct a vote. These missteps have now knocked Mr. Biden - the Democrats’ best choice to defeat Mr. Trump - out of the race. As the editorial board clearly recognizes, public opinion will shift increasingly to Mr. Trump. Hence the exhortation to (belatedly) call a vote and try and do damage control.
Nice own goal by Ms. Pelosi and the Democrats.
The White House keeps referring to the past impeachment proceedings as the basis for their desire to have the same protections, etc. But, what is happening right now is unprecedented. This administration lacks any decency or respect for the Constitution and the democratic institutions that make our country a republic.
Congress needs to ignore the White House and proceed to gather the necessary evidence to bring this administration to task. There should be no acknowledgement of the ridiculous letter other than to proceed with the process to remove these criminals from the White House.
The new allegations of sexual assault by the President only to serve to illustrate the innate criminality of his administration.
1
Americans have to fully wrap their heads around the fact that President Trump asked a foreign government to manufacture false information about a political opponent and to discredit all available evidence from Mueller the US intelligence agencies, FBI and the Senate that Russia intervened in the election of 2016 on his behalf.
All while withholding military assistance duly authorised by the US Congress, but we are supposed to believe the man of tens of thousands of lies that these two things were not related.
Good God America not doing anything about this is admitting we are a banana republic
2
Many Democrats and the NYT Editorial Board committed themselves to the Trump Resistance from the day of President Trump's election.
The ill fated "Russian Collusion" tactic was utilized for several years and after its disintegration, the "impeachment inquiry" has replaced it.
The tactic has been to paralyze the Federal Government and President Trump with a barrage of investigations, charges, and subpoenas.
This has been political theatrics lacking substance and accomplishing nothing.
4
@jck The Kavanaugh hearings were a good example of "she said he did", "he said he didn't" and she couldn't remember. A 6 week magic show, to delay a congressional hearing, hoping some new allegation against Kavanaugh would surface.
If Trump and his judicial nominations are criminals and miscreants, how is it Mueller and the Democrats can't get the "goods" on him? Maybe the Democrats are just incompetent.
1
Captain Chaos versus Mrs. Organization. Spontaneous nonsense versus rigorous structure. Lies vs. substance. Bedlam vs. harmony. Bring it on!
2
The Editorial Board has finally, at long last, begun to call a spade a spade when it comes to our President's grossly unethical, illegal, disloyal, and unconstitutional behavior. I hope that the Editorial Board will also acknowledge, with equal directness and vigor, that the shameful complicity of the GOP in the House and the Senate make them equally guilty of the attempted desecration of our Constitution, and that they, along with Trump and his henchmen in the Executive like Barr, have therefore literally become Domestic Enemies of our republic. That is the sad reality of what is happening in our country today. It is not "partisan" to see it and say it, but patriotic.
2
I agree. It continually frustrates me that the far right has claimed patriotism when all citizens can love their country and still cite its flaws.
To want justice and decency in our country is not affiliated with any political party
2
“The bottom line is that Democrats need to honor basic fairness and conduct a thorough inquiry”? - I thought this was the Onion for a moment rather than the NYT? Fairness would have been allowing Pres Obama his Supreme Justice pick. I’ll stop at that one example. There are a hundred such examples under this administration of the most unfair and oppressive measures against the Democratic Party. So your suggestion that this President is entitled to fairness when he’s not even capable of the most basic human decency is absurd.
1
Of course Democrats don't care about due process.
They let Obama get by with murdering American citizens without due process, including a 16-year old boy. What could be a more egregious case of not following due process than that?
This is what happens when you don't hold people, who are supposedly on "your team", accountable for heinous crimes.
In any halfway decent society you should be able to impeach Trump for aiding and abetting the continued genocide in Yemen at the hands of Saudi Arabia, but not here. This would drag saintly Obama down the same drain as loathed Trump. Can't have that!
So instead we're trying to impeach Trump for what some would, correctly, call "business as usual".
The entire attack against Trump is centered around foreign policy, but they are not fighting to end the military interventions, but are instead squabbling over the most effective ways to pursue them.
The existing nexus of Democratic party, intelligence community and the media are convinced more than ever that Trump has become incapable to advance US imperial interests on the international level after a series of foreign policy debacles (Iran, NK, Venezuela...).
The collaboration between the intelligence agencies, the Democratic Party and the state-run mainstream media news represents one faction of the ruling class determined to pursue the regime change war in Syria even if it leads to a direct confrontation with Russia.
The fact that some Americans are fooled, yet again, is disheartening.
1
@Chris Lets try and stay focused on the topic at hand:
1) Trump withheld yours and my tax paying dollars ($400M) appropriated by congress for aid to Ukraine until
Volodymyr Zelenskiy mounted an investigation into Trumps' potential rival, Joe Biden, for the 2020 election. This falls under the article of impeachment: "High crimes and misdemeanors”, Section 4 of Article Two of the United States Constitution: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. Mr. Trump used U.S. foreign-policy powers to benefit himself politically. You cannot shakedown (bribe) a foreign leader and personally ask them to supply dirt on your upcoming opponent in an upcoming national election. We still live in a democracy and not a autocracy. Congress was formed back in Jefferson's day to have sole constitutional authority to impeach as a deterrent and a check-and-balance to tyranny just in case the Executive Branch over reached and abused it's Executive power.
2) By their own admission - Trump and his administration is already Obstructing Justice by not cooperating with the congressional inquiry and issued subpoenas [A Congressional inquiry – is a request for information made on your behalf – You cannot ignore a court ordered subpoena as it is an order to come to court. If you ignore the order, the court will hold you in contempt.]
1
"The bottom line is that Democrats need to honor basic fairness and conduct a thorough inquiry, but they also need to set hard limits on how much time they are willing to spend on any given negotiation or debate or vote. They are engaged in an asymmetrical struggle with a White House that has shown itself willing to set fire to the Constitution to protect Mr. Trump from the consequences of his own misbehavior."
Are you nuts? You want the Democrats to act like they are at a mean girl Soiree, while they are actually engaged in a knife fight. Thousands of Kurds are dying, while the NYTimes worries about doting the i's and crossing the t's.
2
As Trump has demonstrated over and over he has no respect for the Congressional right and responsibility to check his executive power. He threatens anyone who is connected with even a simple investigation of his questionable activities. He defies legal precedent repeatedly. He essentially acts with impunity, since there isn’t a single republican who will side with the constitution and our country against this man who has never really answered for anything.
Looking at his history before and during his tenure as President one can only come to the conclusion that he will fight every whiff of an attempt to hold him accountable for his actions. The man is a narcissist- every cell in his body tells him “I’m right, they’re wrong”, “I’m righteous, they’re corrupt”, “I am king and I will do what I want”. This mindset makes him unable to act with a conscience, seemingly, he doesn’t have one.
Lets not be fooled by his toying with the Democrats (and the citizens) ..... he has no interest or willingness to cooperate.
Impeach Now!!
2
More Kabuki dancing. With a Senate firmly in the grip of McConnelll, impeachment—merited though it may be—will never lead to its intended result, this President ‘s removal from office. To Democrats and the NYT editorial board , the “wacky” letter confirms Trump’s skewed view of his Presidential power. To his base, it merely represents, once again, his status as a “fighter”. Nothing but an election will show its effect on the “independent” voters of the five or six states that have come to matter.
My concern remains, what kind of wacky letter do we see if the Electoral College says Trump must leave the White House?
2
Johnnie Cochran strategy is being used by the Republican party get the jury to hate the prosecutor more than the prosecuted
If Trump wants to represent himself in his own defense, he has only to appear before the Senate which will try his violations, legally criminal or "just" immoral, unethical and totally outside the spirit and the letter of his Oath of Office and the clear wording of the Constitution. That is, after the House as expected, refers the Articles of Impeachment.
How he can stomach his betrayal of our allies, comrades in combat…the Kurds…who are bravely standing against the Russian backed assaults of Johnny Turk, is beyond comprehension. Certainly our friends and allies the world over see his hypocrisy.
2
I keep reading about Nancy Pelosi the fighter, but I cannot imagine why. Subpoenas are ignored, Lewandowski abuses Congress in a hearing. Lawful demands for tax returns are ignored, demands for questioning are ignored. A seemingly endless investigation is preempted by a fictional summary. In every way, this common criminal of a president has had his way with a co-equal branch of government. If the orange charlatan didn’t self-indict with that ridiculous “transcript”, we’d be nowhere. Where’s the fight? Where’s the fighter?
1
Congress is as close as most of us will get to having a voice in our government. So to defy Congress should be taken as a slap in the face by all of us.
1
We waited while Pelosi dithered away time and again opportunities to impeach Trump. Over and over she blocked the way. The Democratic conservative wing, currently referred to as centrists, also stood in the way.
No wonder Trump declared himself king. Why not? The Democratic Old Guard cower and take anything he dishes out.
Democrats should start acting like Americans.
Stop caring about what the Republicans will do. Go after this guy with everything they can think of.
Hand the process over to the real Americans - the Freshman class of 2018.
Don't just aim for impeachment. Go for a long jail sentence.
The big problem for the Democrats is that the Trumpists will clearly cheat. This is a political move so public sentiment is what is at stake. Trump somehow owns the Republican party since 2016, and has further distorted it's principles. He has no support in the other 53% of the nation, but since Republicans have controlled the congress for a while their power continues. If the Impeachment inquiry brings to light the aberrations of this administration, perhaps a spell will be broken in significant number of voters, and T can be removed. If the Trumpists get to define the process they will giuliani it into a circus, distracting the process like they did with the Mueller report.
In the Play/Movie Chicago there is a song called Razzle Dazzle:
Give 'em the old razzle dazzle
"Razzle Dazzle 'em
Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it
And the reaction will be passionate
Give 'em the old hocus pocus
Bead and feather 'em
How can they see with sequins in their eyes?
What if your hinges all are rusting?
What if, in fact, you're just disgusting?
Razzle dazzle 'em
And they'll never catch wise!
Let's roll the whole "House impeachment process is like a grand jury proceeding" back a bit.
Where we are now is that the prosecutors are gathering evidence. We haven't even reached the grand jury stage yet.
Under no circumstances that I'm aware of do attorneys for defendants have any participation during the investigative phase of a case, other than to participate in any questioning to provide advice to their clients on whether, when and how to respond to specific questions. That's it.
Once a decision is made to actual bring charges (i.e., once the house has voted on whether to impeach), THEN the defense gets to question witnesses, present evidence, etc.
Please stop comparing the investigation to the grand jury presentation.
Full steam ahead Speaker Pelosi.
Don't fall for any distractions from Trump, or from the media that still doesn't seem to understand false equivalencies and still gives the benefit of the doubt to a total fraud.
Our Constitution, democracy, and international standing is at stake, proceed swiftly Speaker Pelosi and keep the momentum moving forward with all your power.
4
The Democrats should not vote to start an impeachment investigation for the reasons the Editorial Board asserts. The Democrats should not provide any "evidence" to the Executive Branch because as the Editorial Board asserts, an Impeachment Investigation is to a Grand Jury Investigation what a jury trial is to a Senate Trial.
Finally, their is nothing in the constitution about fairness when it comes to impeachment. What is called for is objectivity and due diligence. As long as the House does those two things the American public will be well served.
2
Regarding Trump's desire to have counsel participate in the hearings, isn't that really the role of the GOP members and their staffs?
3
Trump's claims to certain rights during the House impeachment inquiry are laughable. At this stage the House is essentially acting as a grand jury. A criminal defendant typically does not even have the right to know a grand jury is investigating him or her -- let alone know who the witnesses are, confront the witnesses or review the evidence. Trump at least knows he is being investigated and the charges he may be facing. He even knows who the House has interviewed or wants to interview and his minions are present at the interviews.
Of moment is what he does not have a right to do: Obstruct the investigation process by ordering witnesses to not appear for House interviews or to produce documents. Republicans whine that there is no evidence and then when the House lawfully seeks evidence Trump does everything to hide it.
Enough. Hammer him and his minions.
4
The impeachment clause of the Constitution is a cornerstone of the protections from tyranny that the Founders, who had just come from under the iron hand of the British king, considered necessary. Now we have a tyrant who runs the Executive Branch, and who is being investigated for abuse of power, obstruction of justice, and possibly other impeachable offenses. This same tyrant would undermine Congress's constitutional impeachment right and further obstruct justice by exerting the power he has persistently abused to block Congress's investigation into his own bad acts, including by directing his compliant subordinates not to cooperate. The reasons for non-cooperation asserted by White House Counsel are ridiculous. In short, Trump seeks absolute power. Beyond whatever steps Congress has the authority to take, one additional course of action seems necessary: for persons under Trump's control with any sense of patriotic duty to defy him and cooperate fully in the investigation, including by providing any relevant information. Otherwise we are acquiescing in the disintegration of our democracy and living under a dictator.
4
Where was basic fairness when the Republicans rammed through the tax cut with minimal debate and shoddy penciled in comments in the margins?
Where was basic fairness with Merrick Garland?
Where was basic fairness in ignoring the Democrats when the replacement health care bill was being written?
It's not just they move goal posts. They pull up the football, too. Time to stop playing this game.
5
@Mike S. Thank you! Exactly!
The Speaker should put Mitch McConnell in the hot seat by pointing out that most of the process demands coming from the White House could be accommodated more appropriately by the Senate trial, not the House impeachment.
3
By all means "hit back" where it really hurts by having the House Foreign Affairs Committee add another phone call--this one in the secret sanctuary of the residence with Turkish President Erdogan where he "green-lighted" the betrayal of our ally in the region, the Kurds, by the Turks. Even the Republicans are up in arms about this led by hyper-loyalist Sen. Lindsey Graham. And, this dwarfs Benghazi by orders of magnitude where Republicans spent countless hours and millions of taxpayer dollars futilely trying to pin a crime on Hillary Clinton. As with Ukraine this is a very transparent issue--betrayal, abuse of power, potential "crimes against humanity," violation of our national security, and a massive conflict of interest given the huge investments Trump has in Turkey--that everyone can understand. And, it puts his Senate Republican defenders in a very tight spot of either backing up their words or backing up Trump and being seen a total hypocrites.
2
Let the House take their time gathering information. There is no clock ticking that requires them to take a vote until they are ready. Once voted they can get their supercharged subpoenas.
In the meantime, they can gather information to better know the questions to ask. They are also controlling the conversation as the more facts come to light, not helpful for Trump spin machine which cannot bring in their own bought and paid for witnesses until a vote is had.
Pelosi is taking a page out of the Bill Barr - Mueller playbook, except she has facts on her side, not alternative facts that Barr used to deflat Mueller's findings of obstruction!
The more truths found the more of the White House staff will jump ship as it is sinking. Let patience be the guide in this discovery for the truth.
2
@Barney Feinberg the democrats have to learn all the lessons from the lengthy mueller saga. All the loop holes all the catches all the tail chasing acts. Get smart. Use smarts to outsmart the conniving republicans. Bill Barr does not have executive privilege. He is not above law either. How much did he obstruct justice? Find out!
2
Americans think they are Emperors of the world. They can export their version of democracy anywhere on earth whether that country wants or not, they can change governments in any country which wants it or not, but when other countries want to change government in US or investigate their politicians for wrongdoing Americans suddenly develop patriotism and oppose it.
Hypocrisy of the first order.
I fail to see where any of the demands in the Trump letter comport with existing law. Take for example their complaint that Trump is not being afforded due process in the impeachment inquiry. Impeachment by the House is the equivalent of a criminal indictment in regular legal proceedings. In regular proceedings a grand jury brings indictments in secret meetings and no notice to the subject defendant is required. They are also apparently arguing that the impeachment inquiry is somehow unconstitutional which is basically insane. The only way the letter makes any sense is if Trump is considered a king.
3
Forget rules. Trump has no rule book and Pelosi and her crew of committee chairmen have been far too generous with their time, their warnings, their threats, their subpoenas, their exchanges of letters and their obsession with Congressional niceties. The time to call Trump's bluff was long ago without any concessions to his delaying tactics. Giuliani, Lewandowski, McGann, Pompeo, Mulvaney, Sondland and anyone else ignoring subpoenas should already be in jail and Trump should have been impeached as soon as he confessed to his crimes on national TV.
5
The Bars of the States in which Cipollone is a member should take up disbarment for his specious arguments designed to enable the president to ignore the Constitution. His behavior is a clear violation of legal ethics.
3
Clearly, the only way to get to the bottom of all the nefarious doings in the Oval Office is via the Whistle Blower Act. Hopefully there are still a few good eggs left there who are willing to do the right thing.
3
A charismatic person who is popular with swing voters needs to take a 6th grade primer version of this article to all the major news networks, especially Fox News, and jazz it up a bit. The idea is to capture the attention of those who may be confused or even bored by the ongoing controversy and machinations surrounding the impeachment inquiry. I’m not kidding. Trump puts his distractions out there in a manner intended to appeal to (yet confuse) the lowest-level IQs in the audience. They eat it up and remember it. The good guys need to do the same, without the vulgarity and mean-spiritedness that Trump employs.
I forgot social media, the scourge of the modern world. Since we can’t rid the world of this curse, we should use it in equal measure as a counterbalance to the bad guys' use of it. Put the 6th grade primer on Facebook, Twitter, all of them. Anywhere it will be seen.
Trump seems to sincerely believe that being elected president means that he owns the country and can do as he pleases. As the owner of privately held businesses, the only checks on his power were the banks. He routinely and repeatedly stiffed them. He treats Congress the same way.
He is clearly only comfortable in front of fawning crowds or fawning autocrats. In either situation, his ego is stroked and his impulses are unmoored. No wonder foreign leaders lavish praise in private to get what they seek. The problem is that it’s the autocrats who do a better job in getting what they want. In Russia, in North Korea, and now in Turkey.
He believes that he can take unilateral actions without external checks or consequence to himself. He clearly does not understand, or care to understand, democracy.
Therefore, Trump is an infection in the body of our Republic. The sooner removed, the better.
3
If the,situation were reversed and Trump lead the House, witnesses would already be in jail. And the Trump voters would be cheering.
3
If Trump wants a real jury trial in court, we can do that for him, after impeachment and removal from office.
2
I rarely disagree this strongly with the editorial board. It reminded me of the old quote that the Constitution is not a suicide pact. I notice that lots of news outlets are trying to promote this food-fight. You are not unique, there are many other fools.
The Democrats are in an unenviable position. Trump and his allies have laid bare weaknesses in our Constitution. The critical functions of the executive branch (WH, Justice, and State) are corrupted. The default Democratic position, as exemplified by Nadler, is to be weak and foolish. Asking court intervention would be risky as the level of fascism at the Supreme Court is uncertain. The elected members of the Republican Party are a 5th column working with Trump to undermine the Constitution. It is critical that Democrats be strong and appear strong.
One way to do this would be to stop asking Republicans to be nice (or loyal). There should be no invitations to testify, only subpoenas. These subpoenas should have a 3 day response time. These should be followed by citations for criminal contempt and arrest warrants. Not all arrest warrants should offer bounties, but when offered they should be substantial. Two initial targets should be Barr and Pompei. Their 3 days should start now. Their arrest warrants should offer win-the-lotto level bounties.
Surely the Republicans should never get close to knowing the identity of the whistleblower. I doubt they would try to assassinate him/her. They have Putin to do that for them.
2
I'm now 70, so law school was a loooong time ago. Vistages remain, like the White House counsel was the counsel to the Office of the President and the Attorney General was the Government's lawyer. I must have missed the class where they said it was OK for the occupants of these august places were really the personal counsel of Individual 1. So what are 'personal counsels' Rudy Giulani and Jay Sekulow, chopped liver?
Jees, these guys managed to give bad lawyers everywhere a good name. That's quite a feat.
1
Nice sleight of hand in writing; this editorial is peppered with the the word “bipartisanship”, which for Republicans is a chance for sabotage of the whole process. Yeah, give them “limited” subpoena power. They’ll find a way to drag this out until the heat death of the universe.
1
Pelosi is speaker of the House for good reason - shes pretty darn smart, and has lots of experience. Her detractors, on the other hand, are not as smart as her, and do not have anywhere near the same experience.
I believe Pelosi was sold a bill of goods by Schiff. He must've convinced her that he had the goods on Trump. We all know Schiff was talking with the whistle blower before he/she was made public. That was why she announced this inquiry before seeing the phone call transcript. As it turns out, WB was dead wrong in some key details of that phone call. Now Democrats are caught with their pants down, searching for proof there was a quid pro quo. It wasnt supposed to go this way. The phone call was supposed to be the smoking gun. It isnt. Even the Ukranian President has said multiple times, including this morning, that he wasnt pressured or blackmailed.
The media will fight till their last breath, but this is going quite badly, and this descent down hill started the second Trump released that phone transcript.
1
And yet another astute, bang-on assessment by the NYT Editorial Board as to the issues at play in these impeachment proceedings.
Nancy Pelosi and her compatriots know exactly what they're up against re: this tormented Trump individual and his scheming machinations, and they will carefully, wisely, judge their actions accordingly as these proceedings unfold.
2
Am I the only person who has a problem, also, with White a house lawyers scrambling to hide the misdeeds of the President?
White House lawyers are there to keep things legal—avoid wrong doing. They are employees of the entire American public, serving the entire public while they work in “the people’s” executive house.
They are NOT there to serve the personal interests, nor aid in coverup, for the President.
4
Trump does not want a fight, he just wants everybody to bow down before him.
This man has shown no respect for the constitution and the people of this nation.
If it wasn't for the 1%'s support, he would already be gone.
3
The ones who really need to fight back here are the Senate Republicans. They facing a LOT of problems right now and they could get rid of almost all of them in one, simple vote. Remove Trump and all your problems go away. Pence will gladly sign any legislation you put in front of him. He'll nominate the most conservative judges around, which you can happily confirm. And he might even try to make friends with some of our former allies again. Imagine that! One vote and poof! He's no longer the leader of the free world, he's just a disgraced former president, with no power to do anything at all, especially from behind bars.
So much focus on the Dems when the solution to this mess is in the Republicans own hands. Too bad they're blinded by fear, cynicism and personal power--all the things that will bring them down.
1
Trump is an untrustworthy negotiator so expecting him to be honest doesn't make sense. So if republicans want certain things to happen in the impeachment inquiry, the first thing which needs to happen is that they must acknowledge the fact that Joe Biden did nothing corrupt in his dealings with Ukraine as regarding prosecutor general Victor Shokin.
All evidence shows Shokin was not doing an investigation of Ukraine gas company Burisma, which is what we wanted to see happen, when Biden forced his ouster.
In a letter dated February 12, 2016, Republican Senators Rob Portman, Ron Johnson, and Mark Kirk, along with several Democratic senators, called for Ukraine’s then-president to “press ahead with urgent reforms to the Prosecutor General’s office and judiciary.”
https://www.vox.com/2019/10/3/20896869/trump-biden-ukraine-2016-letter-portman-johnson
Britain also wanted Shokin removed because Burisma's owner, Mykola Zlochevsky, had over $20 million in British banks which were thought to be ill-gotten gains. Britain had frozen those funds and was demanding an investigation, which Shokin was not doing.
The IMF, which was lending money to Ukraine, also wanted Shokin removed.
Once and for all, the final nail must be put into the coffin of this completely debunked conspiracy theory.
1
The headline, “Trump wants a fight, Pelosi can hit back” conceals the apparent nature of the article, which is to play devil’s advocate on Trump’s behalf. The only real operative is the last sentence “..... are engaged in an asymmetrical struggle with a White House that has shown itself willing to set fire to the Constitution to protect Mr. Trump from the consequences of his own misbehavior.”
Pelosi needs to start playing hardball and not further engage or give weight to Trump’s nonsensical claims that he is above the law & not subject to congressional oversight.
1
A Resolution of Condemnation of the presidents perfidious behavior towards the Kurds who were our brothers in arms before we betrayed them needs to be introduced in both the Senate and House.
1
The mind-numbing, asinine White House letter attempting to de-legitimize the House impeachment inquiry is just the latest installment in Republican intellectual dishonesty and rejection of the U.S. Constitution when it suits their purposes.
Since at least the 2000 election, and the installation of George W. Bush in the White House, Republicans have been all about doing or saying anything, as long as they get their way. Winning at any and all costs is what they represent.
In an obscene way, Donald Trump is the appropriate face of today's Republican party.
1
We already know that Jim Jordan and Kevin McCarthy are operating in bad faith. There’s no reason to allow them to gum up the works in the House. They’ll scream “coup” no matter what. And the WH will stonewall, no matter what. The Democrats should set their own terms. And they should use all the tools available, including inherent contempt.
3
Why would Democrats even listen to an administration that is obstructing justice?
Allow it to call witnesses and such when the administration gags federal employees?
Build a Trump Wing at Leavenworth and hand them all very heavy sledgehammers. And that is just for ignoring subpoenas.
2
Of course the letter was sent for the digestion of the base. The perverse nature of it is obvious to any person caring to know the facts. Making himself out to be a victim, of dear. Another example of trump being a television, non-serious person. A non-serious President in any event.
1
We are at great risk. American democracy is being rigorously tested. Trump is a would be dictator. If the House falters, and SCOTUS is likely not to help, we are likely doomed.
1
Pelosi must move the impeachment process along and not waiver or concede anything to Trump and his consigliere. Trump and his enablers will obfuscate, distract, divide and stall. Most people I know are discusted with Trump and his antics and want the House to play hard and fast. The Senate will not convict this monster but the people will vote him and the Republicans out of office.
1
Trump wants a fight? It is clearly the other way around. It is the Democrats and their allies in the media that are relishing a fight. A fight they will have. And if their noses are bloodied in the process, they will have no one to blame but themselves.
"Take the first claim first, that there is nothing wrong with Mr. Trump shaking down a foreign leader for his own political benefit."
So is the President of the United States supposed to ignore a case of high-level corruption signaled in the media because it will benefit him politically? This is what it comes down to, and there is no argument in favor of this.
Should have Obama stopped pursuing Osama Bin Laden because killing him it benefited him politically in his re-election campaign?
"The administration’s own written summary of the conversation reveals that Mr. Trump PRESSURED Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president,"”
There was no pressure in the transcript.
"One White House official who listened to the call described it as “crazy” and “frightening,” according to a memo by a C.I.A."
Yes, it was frightening but only for Biden and his supporters. And why was it frightening? If here were clean there would have been no worries.
The call was frightening precisely because Biden was corrupt and running for president, and the whistle-blower was a registered Democrat who worked for CIA and previously worked for one of the candidates, most likely Biden (which is why he or she does not come forward).
The idea of granting basic fairness is great in theory. The problem is today’s Republican Party doesn’t believe in fairness or truth or engaging in a discussion. When presented with facts, they ignore them and echo the daily talking points they were sent by the White House. They rely on Democrats embracing fairness, facts and laws which are easy targets for the continuous loop of Trump conspiracy theory.
2
Agreed! The Democratic-controlled House needs to do what it needs to do to prevent the Trump administration from setting fire to the Constitution. The Democrats regained control of the House in the last election because the voters realized that the Republican-controlled House and Senate were not fulfilling the constitutional role to maintain checks and balances on the administration. The Republican-controlled Senate has generally continued failing in that regard and the Trump administration is circumventing the will of the people by preventing the House from performing the role the people wanted it to perform.
1
I am really disappointed in this editorial. It tries to stay balanced and see both sides when clearly one side is bananas. The conclusion of the editorial should not be that Democrats should be fair, but that the executive branch should comply with law. Stop treating this like both sides are equal. This is a constitutional crisis.
6
I believe an impeachment vote would only allow another excuse for the GOP to call this a political attack. The MSM should not refer to this process as DEM vs REP. This is a legitimate and proper use by the House to conduct their business as stated in the Constitution. The misdeeds speak for themselves. The arrest of Giuliani's associates are a step in the right direction. Cipollone's letter is just another distraction and an exhibit to be used in the obstruction case. It is about time that Trump and his enablers learn that they are not above the law.
5
When you're afraid of the truth, everything is a political attack.
2
Ignoring Trump's letter entirely may be the best option. Issue some subpoenas and, when the White House refuses to honor them, get that case fast tracked to the Supreme Court - and make sure it happens before we get too close to the 2020 election. Trump losing a large court case to Pelosi and being forced by court order to turn over all the documents and testimony requested would be a huge blow to his 'no one can touch me' image. Of course, he might refuse to comply with a court order too, but then there'd be wholesale rebellion in his administration when two branches of government tell them to do one thing and one branch tells them the opposite. That would also destroy Trump's image as the 'ultimate boss'. He could fire all the federal employees who disobey his orders, but that would just make him look desperate and grasping for control over a degenerating situation - very similar to Nixon's 'Saturday Night Massacre'. Then, Congress (having exhausted every alternative) could vote to impeach him with a very strong case he was obstructing both Congressional oversight and rulings by the Judiciary. Trump would be left with a skeleton administration, no major accomplishments, a reputation for disobeying the Supreme Court, and a pending impeachment vote from Congress hanging over his head right before the election.
2
Giuliani is not protected by executive immunity. He should be “exposed” and congress should go after him. He may have deep connections within the law and justice but he is also accountable to the truth. He is not a public servant anymore, he is a private civilian and he is not above the law.
8
Speaker Pelosi should not get sucked into any of the process arguments put forward by Trump or the Republicans. In the short term it will just add more noise, distracting from the clear evidence of his crimes, and in the long run it will all be forgotten until next time, and there will be a next time.
They must realize that they are dealing with an administration and a Republican party that has absolutely no integrity and act accordingly - move quickly and decisively. They should move forward with their investigation as quickly as possible, going to court when they meet obstruction (which will be in every case). They should ignore the protestations of Trump and the Republicans, give the courts a an opportunity to respond, but keep them on a very short leash.
If the courts do not move quickly, they should vote out articles of impeachment and put it in the hands of Mitch McConnell and the Republicans. They will probably leave Trump in office and we will have an election, the results being either the death knell of the Republican party or our republic.
In the history of civilizations, common people having freedom and dignity are rare and precious occurrences, not something to be taken for granted.
2
Basically, I think that the Republicans are Faust making a deal with Mephistopheles. They understood that their power is on the wane and so although they initially detested Trump and all that he stood for, they also understood that he was the vehicle necessary to preserve their influence by radicalizing their base. As members of Trump's base, my former friends and coreligionists have taken the bait and there is no talking to them.
I remember early in Trump's presidency the pundits said that the democratic institutions could withstand four years of the Trump presidency. What they seemed to dismiss out of hand is that our democracy is based upon a shared belief and in this respect our democracy is an act of faith and faith is dependent on expected outcomes. Faith be damned, we're in uncharted waters, folks.
9
The bottom line at this point is that congress must deep control of the impeachment procedure. Granting certain rights to the president is done by congress, and not because the president demands them. Since the president has declared his intention not to cooperate, why should Congress grant him any rights at all? The constitution says the power to issue an impeachment of the president resides in the house of representatives and that is it. If this issue should go to the SC that body that declares itself to follow a strict interpretation of the constitution must find for congress though due to its partisan nature the president is probably relying on the SC as a rubber stamp.
4
Under Art. I, the house has "sole power" in an impeachment. If Trump is allowed to have power over the House's conduct of his impeachment, then, we no longer have a President under the Constitution but rather an elected dictator.
8
@Bob Ok, so Trump is asking that the House vote on proceeding with an impeachment inquiry( as opposed to an arbitrary, one-sided fiat by a few members) before he'll cooperate.
That seems to be consistent with not only the words of Article One but also with how the Nixon/Clinton impeachments were conducted. Who knows? Maybe when this is put to a vote, it will turn out Pelosi, Schiff et al are acting in a way that is contrary to the wishes of the majority. The American public has a right to know where the House officially stands.
1
@pete
"asking" "before he'll cooperate"
First - Trump isn't asking, he is demanding.
Second - This would require that we trust his words and intentions that in fact he would cooperate. He also said it would have to be fair - according to him. Given his past behavior, obstruction and lies, why should we trust him?
Third - According to the constitution, it is Pelosi's prerogative to have a House vote on impeachment or not. Trump is convincing more people everyday that he is worthy of impeachment. Trump is not above our laws or our constitution.
Trump is in no position to dictate to us, the people. We demanded this impeachment because of concrete evidence. Pelosi is doing this for the people because this is what we want.
2
@Bob: Under the Electoral College, states vote, not people.
1
Can't we just put Trump under House arrest and take away his cell phone? Can't the CIA, or the FBI get into that "secret server" where the actual call and others are hidden.
Seriously, it is time to this craziness and just go forward and have the full Inquiry and put anyone who obstructs that held in Contempt and arrested, as would happen if any American citizen did not comply with a subpoena.
These people are not above the Law, despite what the lawyers say.
By the way, I hope we are not paying for Trump's lawyers.
Can anyone find that out?
7
As the Republicans like to point out, this is the result of losing an election; they don't get to make the rules when they are in the minority. The democrats do, and the rules that pertain to a co-equal branch of government are not subject to the president's approval. This is a watershed moment for this country, whether or not democracy and rule of law will prevail. The stakes are too high and the republican president too devious and desperate for the democrats to do anything other than play hardball. Trust is not an option. Forge ahead, you have my vote.
15
I’m confused. What are the ‘Ways for Pelosi to hit back’, that NYT advocates?
As far as I can tell, the article advises:
First, do not hold a full floor vote authorizing an impeachment inquiry. This cedes how impeachment is conducted, and protects Democratic members in conservative districts from taking a difficult vote.
Second, hold a full floor vote authorizing an impeachment inquiry. This will grant Mr. Trump certain procedural protections at this stage, and enhance the legitimacy of the inquiry in the minds of Americans.
???
I see no mention of locking up witnesses who ignore subpoenas, or putting political pressure on Republicans to do the right thing.
9
The White House demand for "due process" is dishonest, as Cipollone surely knows. The Supreme Court long ago established that due process comes into play when a person faces loss of life, liberty, or property. Trump faces none. The House has full authority under the Constitution to conduct an impeachment inquiry in any way it sees fit. (And let's not forget that all House committees are well-stuffed -- sorry, I mean staffed -- with pliant Republicans like Jim Jordan who will grill witness and hold press conferences full of disinformation, all no doubt in coordination with the White House. Let's also not forget courageous Nunes running across a soggy White House lawn at midnight to fawn before the president.) Cipollone gives the game away -- it seems Trump's sycophants can't help but betray themselves, just like their Great Leader -- at the end of the letter when he claims basically that Trump can't be impeached because he's doing such a great job. There's no point to all this other than to take some more sledge-hammer whacks at the foundations of the republic, in hope the whole edifice collapses on top of the Democrats in time to declare the national emergency by which the 2020 elections are canceled and the Constitution suspended.
9
The current occupant of the White House would do well to remember what the first, and greatest, Republican President once said, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." The GOP base consists of the aforementioned people fooled all of the time, but the rest of the country is no longer fooled even some of the time. And that "rest of the country" is about to correct the biggest political mistake our nation has ever faced. One of two things will happen- removal by the Senate (at this point, unlikely), or removal by the people on November 3, 2020. We, the voting public, made this mess, so it is fitting that we will likely be the ones that will clean it up.
11
Removing the American forces and giving a green light for Turkey to attack the Kurds in Syria is Trump's usual technique of trying to solve a problem by creating another problem to divert the attention of the public.
With all his unrelenting bravado and the unwillingness to unfold his hands from twitter, he is deeply worried about the impending impeachment. He will do anything in his arsenal to avoid impeaching or at least delay the process. Founding fathers of the nation who wrote the constitution included all sorts of checks and balances to protect people from the government by giving equal power to the house to override the president. Trump is trying to exert his executive power without any concern to the co-equal power of the house according to the constitution.
Future presidential debates should involve probing questions about the constitution. This will make the candidates to read about it to avoid making a fool of themselves on the stage. The excuse that the vastly experienced executives who run the government offices will advice the president doesn't work all the time - certainly not with somebody like Trump. He doesn't have the patience to read the constitution or the willingness to listen to people who are familiar with it.
5
There is no point in concessions, as the Board say themselves, he'll just move the goal posts -- half the point of this is to try to delay any action.
Additionally, the comparison to Nixon or Clinton isn't relevant here -- both of those accepted the rule of law (even if unwillingly in Nixon's case. To use the same standard for Trump is apples and giraffes.
We are also dealing with a Republican party that doesn't concede that the Democrats, regardless of election outcome, have any right to govern. You cannot deal with them, and Pelosi knows far too much to waste her (and our) time trying.
574
@1DCAce
Why bother with impeachment over a relatively minor offense when compared with Trump's green-lighting Turkey's invasion of Syria.
Even Trump pal Lindsey Graham called it the worst decision of presidency, and I would be tempted to add the worst of any presidency ... but then there's GWB's invasion of Iraq in 2003 and LBJ's and Nixon's war against Vietnam, so I cannot.
However, Trump's abandonment of the Kurds into the malicious hands of the Turks is plenty bad enough.
By running down the list of Trump's lawyer's objections to impeachment, the NYT Editorial Board only serves to create a smoke screen shrouding Trump's worst blunder and the Democrat's most promising line of attack in the 2020 elections.
Instead, the NYT and so many others have "strained out the gnat but swallowed the camel." MT: 23, 24
4
@Gluscabi
You go with the case you have the best chance of proving. Capone was put away for tax evasion, which could be proved unambiguosly. It is known that he was guilty of much more, and much worse than that but the charges would have been more difficult to prove.
Trump is arguably guilty of nearly uncountable acts that would be sufficient grounds for impeachment, and/or criminal indictment. Most of it is difficult to prove, too complicated for the average american to understand, or both. The Ukraine issue is relatively simple and the evidence is not ambiguous.
Trump only needs to be nailed on one count to be removed from office so it would be a waste of resources, and possibly risky, to try and proove multiple more complex transgressions.
19
No, the House of Representatives owes no quarter to Trump. Quid Pro Quo. This president has used his Executive Power with no ethical consideration or nod to constitutional norms. Why should the House give any ground to demands that are outside the constitution simply because it would fit with some sort of norm that was dismantled anyway. The demands being made are not based on any constitutional requirement. Stop being so considerate. It will only come back in the form of mud in the face. That is the history of this administration. It's time for Trump to face democracy and deal with the consequences both from the Congress and ultimately the American people. If he prevails then the country I was raised in (a democratic republic) no longer exists. It's time to bring this all before the American people so we can see the facts. I don't care about his base. This is the duty of the House to bring this forward and let the process work.
639
@Laura
It's not about what the House owes Trump. It's about having a successful impeachment, which includes assuring the American people that a president has not been unfairly railroaded, that requires these procedures rules, and so forth.
13
@Livonian Sorry, but the president has railroaded himself.
15
@Livonian
Wait! What? The American people, based on concrete evidence that this "President" has committed treason, high crimes and misdemeanors, has asked the Congress to impeach according to the Constitution. We do not need to be assured that Trump is not "unfairly railroaded". We need to be assured that Trump is held fully accountable for his crimes toward our country and democracy. Trump is defying the constitution. He isn't claiming innocence, he is claiming total immunity and absolute power. That doesn't concern you?
26
I wish the national media would stop portraying the impeachment inquiry as a Democrats vs. Republicans battle, which skews public perceptions. The majority of representatives in the people's house are there because they were put there by the electorate in the mid-term elections. The impeachment probe is being advanced by representatives who just happen to be Democrats, by the people's choice. And, according to the latest polls, many Republicans now support impeachment. When the press frames impeachment as a fight solely between Democrats and Republicans, it is inflaming divisions among Americans.
735
@Whole Grains That's how it is though. Hold a whole House vote on the inquiry to find out more.
3
@Percy41: No. It may be "how it is, though"...but it doesn't have to be and nor should it be. Enough is enough.
12
@Whole Grains
The press is incapable of passing up any opportunity to play boxing match MC. When faced with the choice of confronting political posturing it again cannot resist the false tone of equivalency no matter how unhinged the Republicans become. So even as we confront a mind boggling political crises where the GOP is asserting its corrupt leverage anywhere it can our press staggers forward deeply wounded as it chooses to pretend the country is okay.
21
Trump will have plenty of time to call witnesses and defend himself in the Senate. Let the House do their job of getting the real truth first. If they have enough evidence to vote to impeach, then let McConnell deal with how to be fair to the man whose idea of fairness is tied up with loyalty to himself alone.
687
@Honey
McConnell will probably bring the case to a vote in the Senate prematurely and dismiss the impeachment.
23
@Honey -
Note: per the Constitution, in Article I, the trial generated by an impeachment of the president occurs in the Senate, but is presided over by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, not the President of the Senate (VP Pence), nor the President pro tempore (currently Sen. Grassley, from Iowa). To get to the trial, there has to be some set up by the Senate, where there are established rules for this, but that is controlled by McConnell.
So the question comes down to whether McConnell would rather deal with Trump or Pence as president.
8
@Honey McConnell will use a Senate trial (assuming there is one, notwithstanding his earlier words that there would be [politicians renege]) to instead try Joe Biden - if the trial is televised. It might not be televised ... but even so, expect McConnell to rig it somehow).
13
So that was our tax dollars that were pledged by Congress to support Ukraine. OUR tax dollars. I am a small business person who has sometimes struggled to pay business taxes, while at the same time keeping the business running and taking care of my family obligations. But up to this point I’ve believed in the importance of paying my share, confident that Congress would exercise the power of the purse in the best interest of our country. How dare Trump- that draft dodging, bankruptcy filing, tax scofflaw- dare to use our tax dollars to his personal political advantage. Time’s up: he used his office for his personal advantage and he deserves impeachment.
930
@Maryall Carmel Kaczmarek , I am with you. all one needs today are good tax lawyers and a bunch of rich people. Trump said it back in 2016 and 2015. He is smart to not pay taxes.. Trump does not care about small business owners. Trump cares about himself and his family.
72
@Mary Carmel Kaczmarek
I'll one up that... We are giving our tax dollars to Ukraine who turn around and give it back to U.S. defense contractors [private companies] to purchase weapons.
So here is the viscious and corrupt cycle:
1. The US Military [DOD] requests a US defense contractor to "make a missile" to their specifications.
2. The US defense contractor [i.e. Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon, BAE Systems, Northrop Grumman
General Dynamics] says, "No problem, we will need $100 million to start R&D ...
3. The DOD cuts them a check funded by the U.S. Taxpayer
4. 10 years later the missile is made and ready for the field.
5. Ukraine [and many other countries] who receive U.S. Taxpayer aid and use that money to buy weapons from U.S. DOD contractors.
6. The cycle rinses and spins.
DOD Contractors make $billions in profit without spending 1 cent of their money! This "socialism" and "large scale corruption" on an enormous scale.
26
@Mary Carmel Kaczmarek
Remember that Trump tried to extort $5 billion in taxpayers money in January by threatening to shut down the country. By the way, that wasn't his full demand, that was the DOWN PAYMENT, something most of the news stories glossed over.
25
The argument about a formal vote to initiate an impeachment inquiry is nonsense. The House, in this nation's first impeachment in 1868, impeached President Andrew Johnson without even initiating an inquiry.
Politically it is nonsense, as well. The WH counsel letter was a declaration of war. Wars are not won by adhering to the rules of the enemy.
982
@James Ricciardi —so well-stated, thank you. The NYT’s insistence on bothsiderism and
false equivalence borders on journalistic malpractice (and to those who claim this is hyperbole, I point to Maggie’s writing of Clinton and emails and/or Benghazi over 100 times—with zero mentions of Individual-1’s notorious and longstanding mob ties; Vogel, and Gullible Mikey, always taking Rudy’s word at face value). Heretofore this was mostly confined to their political (as opposed to investigative) reporter, but now has seeped onto the opinion pages as well. Playing by Trump’s rules—news flash, he has none. To what end, so he can move the goal posts again? So Fox News and the WSJ will credit Pelosi? Give me a break, Sorry, the prosecution is not obligated to show the defendant every piece of evidence against them, before deciding whether to indict—that’s what the grand jury is for. Which is exactly what this is. Mitch will set the rules in the Senate—I look forward to this page holding him to the same standard.
13
appears that Joe Biden is yet not official opponents of President as Primary election of Dems not yet done. He is a mere citizen of USA. Can the President of the USA not investigate corruption of a citizen and not ask for cooperation from foreign governments like Swiss government? It seems bizzar to prevent elected President from investigating a citizen for corruption.
3
Why would the President of the United States with all of the issues he is facing want to spend his time investigating the alleged corruption of one ordinary citizen? Furthermore why would he not seek help from his own governmental agencies first such as the FBI or the CIA if he had a legitimate concern about corruption of a citizen.
@Anil It is acceptable for a president to suggest an investigation of criminal wrongdoing, but how he does it is important. We have this notion in the US of due process, taking all of the appropriate steps.
If the Trump administration had been interested in taking the appropriate steps to investigate Joe Biden, they would have given the concern to the appropriate government agencies, let them investigate and listened to their conclusions. Instead, Mr. Trump bypassed his formal subordinates.
If he felt he could not ask government agencies due to corruption, he should have pushed to have the corruption rooted out in a formal manner. He has declined to do so despite many public calls of "deep state".
If he had a personal concern about it and felt he could not use government officials because it was a personal matter, he could have hired his own investigators and done it all privately. While he has hired a private person to work on the issue, One Rudy Giuliani, he also used the direct power of his professional office to request help from foreign governments on a personal request.
In the face of the demands from Trump that Congress accord him all the due process he demands, even beyond those of previous impeachment efforts, his own routine shredding of due process makes his claims to care about the process quite laughable.
@Jacob Sommer
The right thing for democrats will be to allow investigation of Biden and prove his innocence. As far President action is concerned if he has done illigal things then the legality or otherwise should be settled in courts. But impeachment is political action which is meant to be used in case of treacherous act or grave action jeopardize nation. Instead of impeachment the right battle ground for political issues is election of 2020
Since democrats has realised that none of their candidate s from primary are capable of defeating Trump , so this impeachment.
The Democrats' reasons for refusing to hold a full floor vote are weak and self-serving. Trying to protect wobbly House Democrats from the wrath of their own constituents is an ignoble motive, and the other reasons are merely tactical. Such reasons do not warrant the confidence of the American people, and are unlikely to recruit the support of the judiciary. The Editorial Board seems to realize this. I urge the Editorial Board to reconsider this matter, particularly in view of the fact that History is watching.
6
@James Ribe The judiciary has no part in this. The House has sole power of impeachment.
This article pretty well nails all the pros and cons of holding a vote on an impeachment inquiry, save for one pro: Republicans would have to stand up and be counted as saying "we don't want an inquiry, nothing to see here". Note that the Democrats in Trump land would not be voting for impeachment, only for an inquiry. Republicans sitting on the fence are saying they want more information before committing. An inquiry is a chance to get it.
4
I wish everyone would stop calling Congress "coequal." It isn't. The three branches of government "check and balance" one another, but Congress is clearly meant to be preeminent among them.
Congress has power over the other branches that they do not have over it. The fact that the institution's current inhabitants are so comfortable leaving their power unused, or giving it away, doesn't change that.
13
@Jim D.
You may be correct in the abstract, but oversight of that "power" to which you allude will always have domestic political repercussions. And fear of those consequences will always come before honor; that is why Nancy Pelosi does not want to jeopardize the political standing of 31 moderate democrats by bringing this matter to a floor vote.
4
@David H All true, and all outside the scope of my point. I'm addressing the semantics. Congress may have an array of good and bad reasons to hobble itself. The rest of us ought not to use the language to help cement that status in the popular imagination.
@Jim D. And yet the Congress has only 11 percent approval rate while Trump has 45 approval rating according to Gallup. It is a partisan shop full of scoundrels, who are no posturing to steal the 2016 elections and the 2020 election with this clown show.
Does anyone remember when Attorney General Eric Holder ignored a subpoena from Congress and was held in contempt? Nothing happened to him then and I think that sets a precedent that the Executive Branch can ignore subpoenas and Congress's only recourse is impeachment. I think Trump wants to force a vote on impeachment which, so far, Pelosi has tried to avoid.
7
@J. Waddell
Correct. Nancy Pelosi has far more to lose than Mr. Trump in such a contest, even without Senate inaction on impeachment.
4
@J. Waddell - Seqseuently it was ruled that Holder was in error, that he did NOT have the right to ignore a Congressional subpoena.
THUS THERE IS NOW A PRECEDENT.
Quite a difference!
10
@J. Waddell There's more, of course. Read https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34097.pdf .
The Constitution does not contain a procedural roadmap for impeachment of a President. And, there’s very little precedent. However, one thing is clear: the trial of the President takes place in the Senate, not the House. I am not a Constitutional scholar by any means, but common sense would indicate that if there are any due process protections the President can avail himself of, they exist in the trial portion of the process, not the fact gathering portion which is conducted by the House.
Yes, the executive branch and the legislative branch are co-equal, and some deference is due, but each branch balances the other and when the executive branch commits a crime, it is the job of Congress and the federal courts to push back and restore the balance of power. The executive branch has too much power. The balance has to be restored or we will end up a dictatorship.
14
@Bathsheba Robie
Yet by your own admission the balance cannot be restored as long as the Senate is controlled by the Republican party. To my mind, that fact illustrates perfectly that our system is operating as it was intended.
3
"Senate Republicans may well be privately concerned about Trump’s behavior. But there is no indication that even one would vote in favor of removal. While Trump is nowhere near as popular as Clinton was, he retains the loyalty of his base, who dominate the Republican primaries, and, unlike Clinton, he enjoys majority support in the Senate." and
"impeachment has its own narrative logic: once the Democrats initiate it, they either win or lose. If they lose, they will be seen as losers who wasted public resources for a futile goal."
This from Project Syndicate's "The Impeachment Trap" by Eric Posner.
I feel this tragically prescient, added to the fact that the empeachment will dominate the whole campaign, impeding the Democrats to present and defend a strong position in fields that really count for the Americans.
3
@Jacques 5646 - I completely disagree. The Mueller inquiry proved that the president is entirely above the law and immune from prosecution. Trump, thus emboldened, will take every advantage of that immunity. The sole remedy to curtail his lawlessness is impeachment. To not wield that tool is to fully prostrate the American political system to a shameless, foolish, dangerous buffoon.
The Senate will have to vote on any articles of impeachment. Those senators will have to face the public after their votes. Democrats will not suffer politically for doing the obvious right thing.
Important to remember that Pelosi is simply giving Trump and the Republicans a dose of their own medicine. She is operating under the rules that the Ryan/Boehner House adopted when pursuing the Benghazi inquisition and other specious attacks on Obama and Clinton.
Shed no tears for Trump, he is the ungrateful recipient of the ruination of the House the Republicans wrought.
28
@Peter "Shed no tears for Trump" Word. - C
I spent fifty years, a full half century, working with adult felons. Trump is, beyond any doubt, a major criminal based on crimes of omission and commission, all in violation of his formal oath of office and conduct as an American citizen.
He cannot be allowed to hide behind the benefits of the presidential office as a shield against laws which apply to any and every person in this country.
33
@forgetaboutit
Can you name the exact laws Trump has broken, and provide proof to back up those accusations?
1
@forgetaboutit
"He cannot be allowed to hide..."
Yet is IS "allowed to hide." And the reason, I suspect, is that not everyone shares your assessment that he is "beyond a doubt a major criminal." Such language is, quite frankly, hyperbole of the worst kind and will do nothing / nothing to improve Nancy Pelosi's chances of success in attempting to destroy Mr. Trump politically without beinging her impeachment "inquiry" to a form vote on the house floor -- a ruse that is completely and utterly transparent to all who are paying attention.
1
It appears that Joe Biden is yet not official opponents of President as Primary election of Dems not yet done. He is a mere citizen of USA. Can the President of the USA not investigate corruption of a citizen and not ask for cooperation from foreign governments like Swiss government? It seems bizzar to prevent elected President from investigating a citizen for corruption.
2
@Anil
Anil, it's just a little too convenient that, at the time of the illegal request of Ukraine to investigate Mr. Biden as a political favor whilst withholding critical military aid to fend off Russian aggression, Mr Biden was leading in the Democratic primary polls. And even if Mr. Biden weren't leading, he's a political enemy of the President. That behavior is not democracy; that's authoritarianism.
22
@Pence Biden was leading the polls by a hair and his performance was so weak, many wondered if his polls were 'hillaried'. Even if Biden had won the primaries, if he was corrupt and someone had proof of it, nationally and internationally, the President has a duty to reveal it.
Trump is a tough and sucessful street fighter, up against an opposition that is polite and respectful. I hope the Democrats have the street smarts hidden away somewhere for when they really need them.
12
If Trump thinks he is not getting due process the Dems should invite him to come and testify before the committees.
5
@Luke That would call his bluff. He would never show up.
Symmetry has an appeal in historic times. So how about this:
In 1972, D.C. police officers stopped a burglary in process at the Watergate office building. Burlgary was prohibited under the criminal code of D.C.
In 2019, extortion and obstruction or justice are also prohibited under the D.C. Code. There is probable cause to believe they are going on at the White House and other executive branch locations. So come on, D.C. police, when are you going to appear with search warrants?
7
"With rules, rigor & resolution." Posing & posturing by the Dem leadership/establishment (Including this newspaper.) to enable its base to feel better about its party & forget for a while that Trump owns, not only his RE assets & his base, but his administration (Including the myth of the "deep state" which was custom created for him.), his party (Including the Senate.) & his courts (Including the SC.).
Congress is aware of Trump's record regarding lawsuits and litigation. It's time to reiterate an article from Newsweek in 2016...
..."Over the course of decades, Donald Trump's companies have systematically destroyed or hidden thousands of emails, digital records and paper documents demanded in official proceedings, often in defiance of court orders.... In each instance, Trump and entities he controlled also erected numerous hurdles that made lawsuits drag on for years, forcing courtroom opponents to spend huge sums of money in legal fees as they struggled—sometimes in vain—to obtain records. "
— Kurt Eichenwald, Donald Trump's Companies Destroyed Emails in Defiance of Court Orders Newsweek, October 31, 2016
Same M.O. now. Let's learn from history.
16
This is a text-book example of "reverse civil disobedience". Morals can justify not following laws like slavery, wars, killing people..... It is the people standing up to a government or law because, in their beliefs, it is the right thing to do.
But here, it is the executive branch of the government fighting not only the law but the very foundation of the Republic: the separation of powers which guarantees the system of checks and balances.
This WH not only jeopardizes our national security but intends to rewrite the constitution "by decrees" and "legal" letters. All for Trump's personal gain. There is no higher motive. "The right thing to do" does not exist.
We are lucky to have Pelosi fighting for the Republic.
9
@Aurace Rengifo People who committed civil disobedience in the past, like the Berrigan brothers, MLK Jr., or Gandhi, were prepared to face the civil penalties for their actions or inactions. Trump is acting specifically to avoid penalties. So in that sense too it is "reverse".
Go ahead an impeach him with any evidence. Then, when Republicans squawk "you can't do that without evidence," tell them fine, then give us some. The transcript of the call is all the evidence we need after all, and the president's admission of what he did. What we are impeaching for remember is The Ask for help to win an election. Whether Ukraine complied or felt pressure isn't the point. Don't get distracted. The Ask is the high crime and misdemeanor here.
8
Common man goes to jail for petty crimes where as if you have executive power you can circumvent any of your crimes.
Is this American Democracy?
7
The Constitution prescribes no specific process, nor does federal law. Interesting that Trump is attacking this while Mcconnell rewrote the rules for nominating judges to the supreme court. Trump breaks laws all the time, gets lawyers to skirt laws, even lie about laws, but if someone else finds ways to expose his corruption, oh dear, the mental breakdown is on public display.
6
Indeed, the letter from Trump's team is bananas and takes the US to a whole new level of banana republic. I wonder how the men defending Trump move on with their days. How do you wake up and think you are doing the right thing? I often wonder that about Fox News hosts as well. How do you live with yourself when your job is to chip away at the Constitution and the rule of law?
9
Guess what, tomorrow morning, expect another distracting destructive absurdity from the Trump Distraction Machine. It's like a clockwork and the only think predictable about Captain Chaos is his calculated production of chaff.
He's been putting on the world's greatest entertainment for two years. It ain't going close whether or not Trump gets booted out of office.
Trump and the Republicans are using the same tactic they did with the Mueller report, turning it into 'the Democrats are mad about the 2016 election and it's all political'.
Let's be VERY clear the impeachment proceedings are a response to Trump asking another country to participate in finding information damaging to Trump's main opponent. It is requesting foreign interference in the US elections - THAT IS THE ISSUE.
The Republicans also blindsided the Mueller report. The main focus was to review Russian interference in the 2016 election. While it did not implicate Trump, it did validate that the Russians were seriously impacting the election and resulted in multiple convictions. Trump made it all about Trump & I didn't do anything.
Please, please, please can all of us (yes, including you, NYT) stop giving the Republican viewpoint a validity it does not deserve and get back to the point that the US President is essentially granting foreign countries the right to damage & invalidate our elections.
7
Trump always defends his cruelty to immigrants by saying that ‘we are a nation of laws’ - well, at long last, he’s going to see what that really means.
5
Only the guilty stonewall! Trump and his minions continue to stonewall legitimate Congressional investigations.
4
The president was not provided any due process protections? That is a defense claim? Seeking the truth IS the constitutional due process and all he and the public need and deserve. Did Trump give the Kurds due process before he threw their lives to the tank treads of Turkey? Did Trump think that soliciting foreign country involvement in "getting dirt" on political opponents is due process? Trump should get his due and Congress is following the constitutional process for a man who shreds due process for all who have any reason to depend on him or his office.
3
“Mr. Cipollone has demanded, for starters, ‘the right to see all evidence, to present evidence, to call witnesses, to have counsel present at all hearings, to cross-examine all witnesses, to make objections relating to the examination of witnesses or the admissibility of testimony and evidence, and to respond to evidence and testimony.’ “
These are what the Senate Trial is for.
Also, what about Joe Biden — Trump is already using his power to smear Biden’s reputation.
Where is the “court” where Biden gets to defend himself and his reputation? Can Biden sue Trump, Giuliani and Fox for libel?
2
The Democrats and Nancy Pelosi need to move formally and quickly to formalize this inquiry and use subpoena power and the court system to compel witnesses to testify under penalty of federal prison for contempt of Congress.
America and its Constitution is up against Gaslighters Over People who will weave spectacular fiction, fantasy and fakery out of thin air every waking second until they are exposed, impeached, convicted and incarcerated.
The Republican contempt for the United States Constitution and the rule of law is impressive.
I really wish the Republicans and Trump and Pence would remove those phony little American flags from their lapels and replace them with little Ukrainian and Russian flags.
Make Lawlessness Great Again: Trump-GOP 2019
6
If he does not get thrown out of office by the Republican senate, who’s souls have been bought, sold and bundled up with other low-grade souls to be purchased on the open market, then Trump will refuse to leave office in 2020. We are sliding deeper every day, and what seems far fetched now will be totally normal in a year or two. This is how a dictator takes power.
3
Trump's stonewalling is really an all or nothing stand. While it is his style this one has more ramifications. If he loses those who helped him defy Congress by refusing to testify or release documents could be in legal jeopardy for ignoring subpoenas. Once again Michael Cohen's statement comes to mind. "If you stay loyal to Trump you will end up like me." Perhaps Orange will be the new Republican power suit for people like Barr, and Pompeo. Bar in particular should understand that his use of the Justice Department to go after Trump's enemies puts him in legal jeopardy unless he believes Trump will be President for life.
3
I am somewhat hesitant to bring up this idea in the context of a formal constitutional battle, and don't necessarily suggest that Ms Pelosi should use it in a Congress or committee meetings: where Trump is concerned, the best weapon is ridicule!
4
“They won’t abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy.”
1
So...why isn’t she hitting back?
This doesn’t require a political genius, just a little less spinelessness.
“...an asymmetrical struggle...” That’s mincing and parsing words, conduct in which gentlefolk might indulge had there been anything like civility and courtesy on the part of Pat Cipollone. He’s using a fire department hose to spray foam on the House Democrats’ lawful and Constitutional duty to learn about possible presidential misconduct.
But Cipollone’s letter is a desperate panicked ploy and he can only be successful if Nancy Pelosi takes the bait. The White House has neither legal nor political grounds on which to defy the House. The extraordinary missive is a screeching declaration of incoherence that cannot possibly be taken seriously.
I have no doubt that they think that finding loops and holes and gaps and open-ended interpretations of this impeachment article or that clause or this hidden sentence in the subsection may become the magic lifeline that will pull the president out of the quicksand into which he blithely and arrogantly strolled.
Speaker Pelosi, obviously long disgusted with this aberrant president and reluctant to open impeachment inquiries earlier in this administration’s tenure, now holds all the face cards in the deck. Also on her side is the wild card in the deck: public opinion.
Mr. Cipollone may be of the opinion that his voluminous letter holds many exits for the president from scrutiny and accountability for his actions and words, which are now part of a sordid record of Donald Trump’s creation.
The hounds of justice are baying at his heels.
2
Pelosi and the dems have perhaps waited too long, but there was a rationale: Make sure you have overwhelming evidence.
Trump's recent behavior makes the dems look smart. They should stress the fact that they are taking every step seriously and are not presenting questionable facts. Based on recent polls, this tactic appears to be working.
State the obvious: 98% of what comes out of the president's mouth or in his tweets is not worthy of a response. Let him fester alone, stewing in his own words.
The letter from Cippoline is surreal. Absurd claims and accusations couched in a scholarly legalistic style.
Keep digging, keep working.
Clarify. Explain. Indict.
Prosecuete.
Trump-Pence-Barr: "the 3 .... " You fill in the correct label.
2
Trump wants to fight about everything and with anyone who disagrees with him...and some who agree. This is what he does.
True, this is asymmetrical warfare with our own president, but with some luck we will get through this and on to the next president, where some repairs can begin. If we cannot, and Trump persists for four more years, then that is the fault of far too many US citizens who will go along for whatever benefits they see. Citizens who will go along with the most mendacious and narcissistic and belligerent president in modern history.
It is hard to see sustaining much good without some bipartisan trends towards tolerance.
I believe that it’s time to stop the parsing of myriad strategies that only serve the Orange Monster’s goal of running out the clock.
It is time for a March on Washington. We are in the non-shooting phase of Civil War 2 and the people who believe in the separation of powers and the guilt of this President need to rally in a dramatic and highly visible way. A Ten Million Patriot March is overdue—shut down DC because it’s already effectively shut down.
Let the GOP know that their place in American history will be somewhere near that of Benedict Arnold and John Wilkes Booth if they don’t act to end this Presidency.
Civil disobedience is just around the corner. Perhaps a mighty show of conviction will lead to...conviction. And removal.
1
When are democrats going to actually call a vote on impeachment. All talk and bluster and now show.
Either call a vote or drop the pretense of an impeachment inquiry. You Democrats have been investigating Trump since he announced he was running for office. The Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign, then we had the so called Russia Collusion delusion that Adam Schiff still claims he has the evidence of.
Get busy impeaching or get busy losing the house and more senate seats in 2020.
1
Repubs will use their subpoena power to create a circus. The House can vote to allow committees to investigate and call any witness that is part of the current administration or anyone the majority agrees has acted in consort with or has relevant information about the actions of administration officials. Joe Biden would not be on that list.
Trump only understands "blood sport". Pelosi has to "go for the jugular" as reasoned and strategic as possible. But with utter resolve to bring down her opponent who threatens the very essence of our democracy. This is no time for timidity!
1
Tonight I realized one good thing about trump: Americans are seeing mental illness whether they want to or not and how important it is to be treated.Imagine if Trump was treated as a child for Narcissistic Personality Disorder? If he was on meds all his life and had done "talk-it-out' therapy.
He represents the reason why it is so important to include mental health in our nation healthcare packages.
2
@Dolly Patterson True, but it doesn't explaining the creepy deference shown by the GOP. That's not mental illness, that's gluttony and self-interest, McConnell being the worst of the lot. He's the real threat to the country, because he's perfectly sane and knows exactly what he's doing.
1
The President may be impeached because he allegedly blackmailed the President of the Ukraine. Something that both Presidents vehemently deny.
It would seem to me that the President is entitled to the most fundamental due process rights in this process. If this matter were in a criminal court of law, and the victim denied that he had ever been victimized, the matter would be thrown out, and the prosecutors possibly disciplined for their overzealous behavior.
Our country has so many problems that sorely need the attention of Congress, but partisan political antics rule the day.
2
Trump and his team on the one hand claim the entire inquiry is illegitimate and politically motivated, and on the other, they are demanding procedural protections normally afforded to criminal defendants. Bananas, indeed.
1
That last sentence needs explaining: Congress is engaged in an asymmetrical struggle with a White House that appears willing to burn the Constitution (paraphrased).
Where is the asymmetry; are not Congress and the Executive co-equal branches of government? Why, how have we allowed this bully to overpower our democratic form of government. I acknowledge that the GOP is corrupt and cowardly to the core, that the Democrats lack the will or ability to fight and that the public is uninformed. Still, I just can not accept that this so called president is more powerful than Congress simply because he's willing to burn the Constitution.
Any caving in by Congress to Trump&Co demands should be on condition the president releases his tax returns, entirely refrains from further incendiary attacks on public servants and the press, and more generally speaking, begins conducting himself less like a vicious bully and more like a well behaved little boy deserving of a piece of chocolate cake - Moreover, if the president wishes to enter into this quid pro quo arrangement with Congress he must act fast, say within forty eight hours, or the chocolate cake will go to another, as will his presidency - very shortly thereafter.
Without its Constitution, America is not America. Our Constitution trumps Trump. We must protect our Constitution.
1
This article misconstrues the term “due process” as it applies to grand jury proceedings.
As Sandra Day O’Connor famously said, “The issue is just how much process is due.”
Trump’s lawyers seem to be demanding the process due a criminal defendant.
However, the Constitution and indeed the rules of the House do not require nearly that much deference. Trump is just a corrupt Chief Executive, accused of abuses of office that warrant impeachment and removal from office. He’ll get his due process.
And after his return to civilian life, he may yet get the process due a criminal defendant.
1
The Board here has provided clarity that appears to say that the point of transition from an Investigation to an Impeachment has been reached. The whiny demand for "rights" letter Tuesday is that point. The House needs to make 3 actions at this time. The First is to remind America of the legislation that it has passed in the 216th Congress and that the Senate has neglected to even discuss or try to vote on most of the measures. Speaker Pelosi should also share other legislation in the works. The Second item will be to again clearly show the abuses of power that Trump has involved himself in and how he has damaged the Presidency, divided the Nation, and harmed our standing in the World as a leader for Democratic processes, Human Rights, and the looming Climate disaster. The Third action is to show how the Constitution protects America, focusing in on the sytem of Checks and Balances, and why the Investigation had to be undertaken due to the President - that it is Trump who would reject the Constitution by his efforts and actions that forces the House to go to that next step: an Impeachment. The Speaker ought to reveal the political nature of Impeachment for both sides, and that by not acting what may likely take place by the ever emboldened Trump. In trying to be fair to the GOP and Trump in the Impeachment, the adage "Hope for the best, expect the worst" should be the mantra for the Speaker, Committees, and Members.
10
Zelensky says there was "no blackmail." How does this affect impeachment, especially if it is narrowly focussed on this one incident?
With hindsight we should have started impeachment when Trump fired Comey, on the premise of obstruction of justice. Mueller said as much. Now we should include the Comey firing and stonewalling of witnesses and documents in an obstruction of justice article.
And his siding with Putin at every turn amounts to treason.
Let's draw up the articles and get on with it.
5
@betty durso Zelensky cannot afford to be in the bad graces of the White House so of course, he will say no blackmail. Liest to the transcript, which has likely been doctored to make it "perfect" and read the texts. It is obvious Trump was presenting a veiled threat to support Ukraine, pay to play.
1
The Times says "Democrats need to honor basic fairness", but the Republicans, especially Mitch McConnell, have taught us that, as Leo Durocher said "Nice guys finish last".
20
The problem with this strategy is that Republican congressmen have demonstrated willingness to collude with the administration. If given subpoena power, they'll create a circus of whataboutism and half-baked conspiracy theories--and Fox News will echo it all with characteristic aplomb.
Better to let John Roberts put his country above politics.
23
@Pence
I'm inclined to agree. I've zero hope/belief the Republican party will put country and constitution above fealty to Trump. I have **some** hope that John Roberts and a few others might do the right thing. My Republican congressman has already written me back indicating he will not support impeachment of the president.
1
If the House cannot investigate, they have no capacity for oversight.
Trump's strategy (delay and force court battle) will likely result in him remaining as POTUS through his term.
Has the House no leverage that will allow them to effect the provisions of the Constitution?
11
@Satter
Good question. During Nixon's lawless reign, there were Senate Republicans like Goldwater, willing to talk straight with him. There was also no Fox News propaganda machine spinning lies and misinformation, 24/7.
Some suggestions, since this is clearly a political fight, since there is already sufficient evidence for impeachment including a confession by Trump, and since the Democrats clearly already have the votes for impeachment. So move quickly:
- Instead of broad subpoenas issue very narrow ones, one at a time; start with a subpoena for the full transcript of the telephone call hidden in that secret White House server; make it public, make the response public, don't litigate the White House refusal, make it an article of impeachment instead.
- Finish up a very narrow investigation, then let Republicans on the committee call any witnesses they wish, give them a week of hearing time on their own.
- Then go ahead and vote on impeachment, do it quickly, before Thanksgiving.
- Explain to the public that impeachment is similar to an indictment, that indictments are typically based entirely upon hearsay, that they only require probably cause, that Trump gets a trial in the Senate, with full procedural rights, that he can call witnesses, that Chief Justice Roberts can be expected to conduct a fair trial.
And so, leave things clear and simple so that the Republican senators who vote against impeachment can be judged by the public at the ballot box and judged by history.
31
@PNBlanco The full transcript of the call was already released. Even Adam Schiff and Pelosi accept this.
The Ukrainian President again today came out and said their was no quid pro quo or pressure on him to do anything. Are the Democrats going to cask him to testify? Biden will be forced to testify as will his son.
Every legal aspect of this process will likely end up in front of the Supreme Court.
It is unlikely that the Trump administration will cooperate with the impeachment inquiry without a specific ruling of the Supreme Court that they must do so. It is not even clear that such a ruling would be effective in forcing the Executive Branch to acquiesce to the rulings of the Supreme Court - after all, the position of the Trump administration is that the powers of the Executive Branch "trump" all other branches - including the Judiciary.
It is therefore, in my opinion necessary that the Democrats ask that these legal matters be heard directly by the Supreme Court. That is the only way that there might be any resolution of these matters. There is plenty of P
There is no guarantee that the current Supreme Court will uphold the Democrat's position, but that would happen whether these matters were dealt with expeditiously, or not.
5
A full House vote may not ensure cooperation but it gives the inquiry increased legitimacy because now the full legislative body has spoken and indicated that they are exercising an expressly enumerated Article One power rather than just conducting general oversight, a power that while essential and well established is only implied in our system. If Democrats want to be taken seriously they are going to have to vote on the matter and establish clear and fair procedures.
7
The House is using the committee rules that the GOP house put in place in previous congressional sessions. During the Obama administration the GOP took away almost all the rights of the minority in investigations, why should the Democrats give that up now?
44
@CM Because they are the ones who want to destroy a president. Obviously Nancy doesn’t have the votes.
Congress has broad impeachment powers but not a carte blanche. The government cannot deny anyone the right to due process
2
@fjbaggins This is not a legal proceeding. As much as I would like to see it, they cannot put him in prison, they can only fire him.
If due process is applicable anywhere, it's at the trial in the senate.
27
@fjbaggins
"The government cannot deny anyone the right to due process."
No. Read the editorial again. The right to due process is only required at criminal trials. This protection is not constitutionally required prior to an impeachment trial. The House of Representatice's investigation of Donald Trump is not a trial. It's an investigation. Once House committes finish their investigations & vote to impeach, it is up to the Senate to hold a trial & vote.
28
@downeast60 both replies misapprehend the due process clause and what it does — which potentially forbids any government process which impinges on life, liberty or property interests without an adequate process. Although court processes are good examples, it is not limited to judicial actions. Remember that the SCOTUS held the Florida vote recount violated W’s due process rights.
1
If there is one thing Trump is, it's adept as using legal process to delay and defeat actual application of the law. Pelosi is not violating any legal requirement or process in pursuing an impeachment investigation without holding a vote. There is no reason for her to enable Trump and Republican obstruction of this important investigation by holding vote now, the vote will be on the actual impeachment.
27
As trump’s past behaviour makes crystal clear, there is absolutely zero chance that he will cooperate with this investigation no matter what accommodations the Dems make. They should therefore make absolutely no concessions to trump. The rules of the investigation should adhere to the Constitution, of course; beyond that, the Dems should adjust in whatever way they see fit to strengthen their case and to win over the public.
41
Let's say the House votes to impreach the president. Then it moves to the Senate. Does anybody here think Mitch McConnell is going to play fair?
The House (and therefore Dems) control the impeachment process. The Senate (Republicans) will control what happens next. You know darn well McConnell isn't going to play by the same rules Trump wants the House to play by.
20
@Thomas And what rules are those?
This lengthy and detailed editorial ends up nowhere. It’s like someone musing without reaching anything but a vague “stay the course” sort of conclusion. This has been mainstream media’s approach from the beginning. I now imagine MSM as a philosopher standing in the ashes of a once-great pondering the implications of something that has already happened.
11
Dems will soon be back on defense...
Let’s see if they are prepared to succinctly address why they have chosen to go against already established impeachment “precedents”.
Team trump will capitalize on this beginning tonight in Minneapolis.
For starters, Dems need to continue to show that team trump has never FULLY cooperated in any investigation, and has consistently ignored the fact that congress is a co-equal branch. Are the Dems ready?
6
So the Democrats need to literally bring a copy of the constitution to a press conference and highlight the section for impeachment and explain precisely what they are doing. A road map. After they do this issue subpoenas and if said subpoenas are ignored go to supreme court for relief. Plain and simple. If they still do not release documents or let people testify, then you have a vote for impeachment that would also include obstruction. Then when the senate lead by republicans acquit the president. All will see how corrupt the senate is and the dems will take control of the government come November 2020.
25
The first three or four paragraphs of this editorial read like a parody , similar to Adam schiff’s. If democrats want to impeach the president, then all hearings must be made open and both parties should be allowed to subpoena and question witnesses...and that includes WBs #1 and 2. That is due process for the president and the American people. It is up to US to decide whether or not to impeach the president, and that should be determined on Election Day in 2020.
3
What you are describing is more like what would happen in the Senate. The House functions more like the “Grand Jury” part of the Justice process. This distinction is crucial. In order to bring charges a grand jury has prerogatives different from what would take place during a trial. They will look at the available evidence and the information available from the ongoing investigation and figure out whether it is reasonable to draw up charges. In this case, the charges are called Articles of Impeachment.
29
@Joanna Stasia
Unfortunately, the House is too partisan and does not speak for ALL Americans. I absolutely do not trust the democrats to be fair and honest in their findings to pursue articles of impeachment. It’s a one-sided gambit.
1
@Pvbeachbum The House Intelligence Committee's ranking member, Devin Nunes, has already been caught running to the White House with confidential information discovered and developed by the Committee. Republican members of the committee routinely advance insane conspiracy theories, such as the idea that the Russian Election Meddling scandal was an inside job prompted by agents of the FBI and CIA to help Hillary Clinton.
The point of this entire exercise is to find out the facts, something the Republicans have shown little interest in doing. The are people who slavishly support someone who's made nearly 12,000 false or misleading claims while in office. Political power is their priority, not the truth.
The Democrats are duty-bound to prevent the GOP and Trump from obstructing this inquiry. They should do whatever they can, within the rules, to ensure that all the relevant evidence comes to light.
7
"The bottom line is the Democrats need to honor basic fairness..." That would work if they were dealing with an honorable Administration. Unfortunately, as we all have witnessed time and again, that is not the case. However to show good faith on both parties and to start afresh I propose a quid pro quo: the Speaker will hold a vote on the inquiry in the House in exchange for 8 years of the Trump's federal taxes. All in favor...
44
Our elected representatives must keep the pressure on the White House.
The trump administration needs to be reminded daily that they are being watched and will be held accountable.
12
Nice to see the accolades pouring in for Nancy Pelosi. Wasn't that long ago that she was criticized by many Dems as being too old and needing to be replaced for the good of the party.
Similar brickbats came her way as she thought long and hard about starting impeachment proceedings.
Now she has a very hard road ahead. Hopefully, her once detractors are fully behind her.
22
@Mike Edwards
Pelosi is speaker of the House for good reason - shes pretty darn smart, and has lots of experience. Her detractors, on the other hand, are not as smart as her, and do not have anywhere near the same experience.
I believe Pelosi was sold a bill of goods by Schiff. He must've convinced her that he had the goods on Trump. We all know Schiff was talking with the whistelblower before he/she was made public. That was ehy she announced this inquiry before seeing the phone call transcript. As it turns out, WB was dead wrong in some key details of that phone call. Now Democrats are caught with their pants down, searching for proof there was a quid pro quo. It wasnt supposed to go this way. The phone call was supposed to be the smoking gun. It isnt. Even the Ukranian President has said multiple times, including this morning, that he wasnt pressured or blackmailed.
The media will fight till their last breath, but this is going quite badly, and this descent down hill started the second Trump released that phone transcript.
The House need not fight the entire administration as one entity. Keep issuing subpoenas to the involved individuals. I am patiently waiting for the House to find anyone whom ignores a rightful, legitimate subpoena to be held in Contempt of Congress and duly fined. Fines being levied daily and accumulating, until the person agrees to the terms of the subpoena.
16
Ms. Pelosi and company need to make it clear that this is an investigation, not a negotiation. trump and company have rights, but do not set the terms of engagement. That will give the needed structure to the process and everything then emanating from the trump camp will become self-incriminating evidence, instead of weapons and diversion-tactics.
27
The House needs to take a formal vote in impeachment and the whistleblowers need to be interviewed by Congress.
Why isn’t that happening- thus far everything is conjecture.
No one is providing the public with facts - the American people deserve to see all the evidence so we can make an educated decision.
Until that happens, all the calls for impeachment will not be taken seriously.
The latest Quinnipiac poll reflects less people this week believe the President should be impeached than they did last week. That number will continue decreasing until someone discloses exactas what happened and what was said.
3
So far Trump's mantra of "I don't wanna and YOU can't make me" has proven to be true. Congress has shown itself to be essentially powerless in the face of a President like Trump. Right now, a human rights catastrophe is unfolding in Syria that is entirely the fault of one man and Congress seemingly can do nothing except wring its hands and clutch its pearls. While Congress may well impeach, the Senate will obstruct and delay and sabotage the process to the extent where there will be no real trial, just more theater and at the end of the day Trump's reign will continue unabated.
14
There needs to be something beyond an announcement at a press conference by the House majority that an impeachment inquiry has begun.
Basic, transparent rules need to be in place.
2
The House of Representatives is a corporate body that works through the will of its members, not through the will of one member or a minority of members.
The ONLY legitimate process is a process authorized by a majority of members. This is expressed by a vote.
The rules for an impeachment inquiry do not have provide for a trial like process in the House, the constitution provides that a trial occurs in the Senate. Nonetheless, if there is to be any legitimacy at all to the process adopted by the House it must be a process adopted by a vote of its members.
If the President's actions are worthy of impeachment, as known from the "transcript" of the phone call as adopted by the President as being accurate, what is the purposed of an impeachment inquiry? Vote out an article of impeachment on that without further adieu.
In the end, any trial of an impeachment will either be marred by the Senate shortchanging the trial process in the Senate OR by an actual trial where Joseph Biden, Jr.'s actions and those of his son will be offered as a defense in justification of the President's actions. No matter what, this is going to be ugly.
2
Just to be clear, impeachment is ALWAYS and attempt to remove a “duly” elected or appointed official from the office they hold. What is important is the reason or reasons why such a removal is warranted. Trump has obviously made his own bed and now must lay in it.
29
If it’s so obvious, then why has not speaker Pelosi brought this matter to a floor vote and made it a more official process?
Sorry, but Trump being elected with the help of Russian propaganda and Cyber attack is NOT duly elected.
This is the first New York Times editorial board editorial that I have agreed with in a very long time, and although I would quibble with some of the statements made herein, I congratulate the board for providing what I regard as a very evenhanded analysis of the issue at hand — something that has been missing up until now. So far, this impeachment inquiry, and the administration response to it, both constitute public relations efforts to influence public opinion and shape the American political landscape in the run-up to the 2020 elections. Personally, I do not believe that speaker Pelosi has any intention of filing formal articles of impeachment. And that, I suspect, is why Mr. Trump is engaging in hardball tactics. Whatever the case, I would welcome more commentary like this editorial. Thank you.
3
Speaker Pelosi is disciplined and she is not only smart, she is intelligent. She has the political instincts and influence to push this through.
In these dangerous and anxious times I welcome her calm leadership.
25
The Republicans could get subpoena power but who could they call that would be able to defend his conduct.
10
@ndbza No one of course however they would certainly try to have the whistleblowers on any list.
House Democrats, likewise, could add some teeth to their subpoena power, should speaker Pelosi bring this to a floor vote, but why hasn’t she done so?
The Democrats must move forward quickly, and apprise Mr. Trump and the rest of the Republicans that the Constitution has written the rules on how this goes forward, not them.
10
Speaking as a strong supporter of the impeachment inquiry, I think it is extremely important that congressional Democrats approach the inquiry in way as sober, even-handed and bipartisan as can possibly be done. The acts that Trump committed are not just an excuse to rile up the home team of Democrats. They are a threat to the democratic system as a whole, including all of the voters in the country. Any Republican who voices support for the inquiry is going to be immediately thrown under the bus by Donald Trump, putting conscientious individuals on this side in a difficult position. This is the time for the most vigorous possible outreach to Republicans and, in an environment where the chief executive thinks no rules or laws of the United States or laws of general decency apply to him, it is crucial that Pelosi and Schiff are transparent about the rules and procedures governing this process, cribbing from the time it happened with Nixon and Clinton if necessary. We need to build trust in institutions in this period of time where the president is doing his best to destroy institutions and due process.
It's not tit for tat. Just because he flouts the law and his own self-respect in every tweet doesn't mean the democratic side needs to join in with him in tearing down institutional norms. Dr. Seuss wrote a whole book about why this doesn't play out well.
8
It is time for the Dems to be ruthless and diligent in applying the extreme sanction of impeachment. Trump and those in his orbit will fight tooth and nail, as we would expect. But Pelosi and the Dems needs to be ruthless in getting to where we need to be: Trump needs to go. The Senate and its "trial" will result in Trump staying in power. But the Dems and America, with polls now solidly in favor of impeachment, will arrive at the 2020 election with the clear idea established that Trump is not fit for office. That's the best we can expect. It is then up to the American people to vote this con man out. That is not a guarantee. These are perilous times.
16
@SageRiver I concur; inflict as much damage as possible. Give him something to think from now until then. How will he respond to his minions dropping like flies around him because of their efforts in this scandal?
1
I suggest you send your comment directly to speaker Pelosi, who has the power to authorize a floor vote and transform this “inquiry“ from a public relations stunt into a constitutional process.
When would impeachment not be an attempt to reverse the results of the election?
11
Yes. That’s the whole point. If proven, his crimes render him unfit for the office he was elected to. Further, do you believe in a win by someone who lied and cheated in the competition? This is so basic to Americans way of life. Win yes, but do so with integrity.
13
When the Senate determines the accused is not guilty of the crimes the individual is accused of. Otherwise it is the process provided by The Constitution to remove crooks from office.
1
@Charles Shafer
If Trump is impeached, Hillary won't replace him. Thus, it is illogical to claim that impeachment is somehow an attempt at reserving the election.
2
Until the people’s representatives vote in the majority there is no legitimate impeachment process in place. That is the US Constitution. Furthermore due process under the 4th Amendment cannot be suspended for political gain, or to reverse a free and open election
This action will wind up in the courts, and it won’t end well for the Progressives
2
@hawk
You are almost entirely wrong.
1. A vote by the entire house is NOT required to begin an impeachment investigation. Point to where you think it says that in the Constitution.
2. Due process is addressed in the 5th amendment, not the 4th.
3. The 5th amendment is in reference to a legal proceeding, not an impeachment proceeding.
4. Trump IS getting due process, he doesn't want that, he wants to be able to ignore the entire proceeding.
5. I can't say for sure whether the last election was legitimate, but when he is figuring how to throw the NEXT election, then we have to step in.
However, you are right, we will get killed in the courts. But nevertheless, it's the right thing to do. When in doubt, do the right thing.
5
That a lawyer drafted and signed a letter to Congress like that should be grounds for disbarment.
42
Congress should be very, very careful not to mirror Mueller's extreme caution. No more weakness. No more appeasement. No more gumming up the works. No full vote of Congress until it is necessary to clear a specific legal roadblock. No pretending that Trump has the right to fanciful legal protections that a grand jury or precedent would not require. Just a faithful, straightforward execution of Congressional powers. The American people have suffered enough.
54
@Worried but hopeful The legislative branch has overstepped its powers, which means the third branch will step in and execute a stay until it can be sorted out.
This is about Right vs Might. The Democrats need to get this right, so in the future people will say the Republicans were the ones that couldn't care less about the Republic.
Besides, the Democrats will have all the evidence on Ukraine they need to impeach Trump AND the Mueller Report on top. There is no rush. Take your time Nancy.
The bigger they come the harder they fall.
25
We, meaning those of us who live in the "fact based community", know all this. As has been said several times of late by several different observers, the fate of our democracy comes down to two things - first, on the Democrats making a compelling case on impeachment to the American people, which they have already essentially done even in the face of unconstitutional stonewalling on the part of the administration. Secondly, it will come down to Fox News deciding that the fate of our nation is more important than ratings and money. When, if, Fox so decides the tide will turn, the "base" will begin to erode, and the spineless pols who are reading the tea leaves of public opinion will begin to defend the constitution. If Fox does not so decide, and soon, it's time to march on Washington by the millions to save our country. But, one way or the other, it must be saved. We cannot wait until November 2020, not now.
49
@Michael - why give them the choice between the fate of the nation and money? Boycott their advertisers now.
1
And, if we can, let’s save our allies too! Disgraceful what this administration has done.
@Michael
Fox (which is in effect Rupert Murdoch) will wait until it can see which way the tide is flowing. Murdoch is an old hand at the art of "wait until you see the whites of their eyes". He has successfully changed sides and outcomes on many previous occasions in the UK and Australia.
Give Trump subpoena power, and the first thing he will do with it is subpoena the whistle blower. He will do that whether or not the House specifically excludes it. Then he will take it to the Supreme Court, claiming lack of due process, and denial of his subpoena power. The threat of the full impeachment power the Constitution decrees for the House will be behind him, lost in a welter of howling from the Trump base, and suspended in the first of an endless series of such delays.
This time, he Editorial Board is unwise.
16
@S.P. I concur, continue to tell them that the impeachment train is comming and prepare to get onboard like it or not
People keep saying that Congress is "a co-equal branch of government". The truth is that Congress is "first among equals": Congress writes all laws, confirms appointments, and, most importantly, Congress has the power to remove from office any Executive officer for any reason whatsoever, without appeal or recourse.
27
@Michael Congress does not confirm appointments.
That is done in the Senate. This is why Democrats have been unable to stop the judicial appointments and other appointments.
3
@Mr Chang Shih Congress is the combination of The House of Representatives and the Senate. While it is true that the Senate handles most confirmations, it doesn't handle them all solely. Vice President is also confirmed by the House.
13
@Michael Until the people’s representatives in The House votes in the majority, there is no legitimate impeachment process. And no, the House has no right to suspend due process with the goal of reversing a Democratically elected President. Progressives typically pick and choose parts of the Constitution that suit their needs
The Courts will see this differently. Pelosi can change all that by putting a vote on the floor, that too will fail as it has three times, and exposes dozens of seats up for election
1
"The letter is a formal assertion of executive power and impunity without precedent in American history."
Cipollone could have shortened his letter to, "President Trump is a king," so leave him alone. That said, I was surprised the Board supports a few rules to make this battle less one sided.
By its nature, impeachment is one sided: the will of the people against a runaway administration. It's not an attempt to "undo" an election out of hatred, but out of national need.
It 's clear any submission to the president's "procedural demands would weaken Pelosi's hand. She already has the constitution on her side, as well as precedent. The only reason I would support making some rules is to help the House obtain more documents.
In the end, the president's battle is as much to render Congress obsolete as it is to clear his name. Pelosi needs no advice from me to fight for the sanctity and power of her House majority.
60
We’d all be wise to start calling Trump “Dictator Trump”. If it walks, talks, acts like a dictator it must be a dictator. It is true he is treated like a king by his minions and lawyers, but I think an accurate word is dictator. He makes unilateral decisions without conferring with any wise, competent advisors because they are all gone. He cannot tolerate his authority to be questioned or challenged and he defies the rule of law. A president would obey our constitution but a dictator would do whatever they please and try to get away with it as long as possible. Right before our very eyes, Trump has morphed into a dictator like the one he most admires.
4
High crimes and misdemeanors are whatever the House decides they are. Appointing people to head agencies who sabotage the goals of the agencies they head could be construed as an impeachable offense, since the basic direction of agency policies should not be changed without consulting Congress.
If the House decides badly, the Senate can fail to convict. If both decide badly, voters can remove the congressmen at the next election.
The ultimate test is whether what is done can be sold to the electorate as making sense, being fair, and being deserved.
16
@sdavidc9 . Ford’s dictum as cited in your first sentence is completely wrong. It has to be “high crimes and misdemeanors “. Our framers were worried about what Pelosi is doing today.
1
As a Trump supporter I agree with this editorial. As things now stand Pelosi is making the impeachment case in the court of public opinion because, among other things, she knows Trump will never be impeached.
Better for the Democrats to dirty up Trump politically and let the voters reject him. Given the weakness of the Democrat candidates this is a smart move.
Having the House vote on impeachment will cost her nothing and but only add legitimacy to what is seen now as a purely political process. Then let the chips fall where they may.
2
Purely political? A man lies and cheats his way into power once, and now publicly caught a second time, and his accusers are being political?
Apparently neither the press nor the Congressional committees have the full recorded or transcribed Ukraine phone call, and there is no indication of anyone trying to get ahold of it. This is a key piece of missing evidence. Trump is getting away with his obviously slanted "transcript" being an accurate reflection of what happened.
21
They have subpoenaed it and the administration has refused to comply.
The core view of the Board is that the telephone conversation proves the case. But if that were true, the House should impeach now and dispense with all the drama. The fact is that the House needs more and cannot realistically get what it needs — evidence confirming the whistleblower’s complaint
and a statement from the alleged victim, the Ukrainian President.
The fact of the matter is that there is no reasonable likelihood that the House can prove its case without an eyewitness and without a victim. And absent a reasonable likelihood of success, further investigation is in bad. faith.
7
@michjas
If the House cannot get eyewitness testimony because the President blocks it, that is an impeachable offense. If it isnt, then the President can order his people to do anything and stymie any investigation of it, which is absurd. The victim is not primarily the Ukrainian president but rather Joe Biden, our election process, and the American electorate. Our statement is being written by our representatives in the House.
@michjas
I doubt that 'the core view of the Board is that the telephone conversation proves the case.' Impeachment could not possibly be based solely on the contents one telephone conversation however damning. The Democrats need to prove the intent behind the conversation - that military aid and a White House meeting would be withheld unless the President of Ukraine complied with the requested 'favor'. I do not think the strict legal rules governing criminal prosecutions apply.
@michjas " evidence confirming the whistleblower’s complaint and a statement from the alleged victim, the Ukrainian President. "
The Ukrainian President already made a statement saying there was no pressure or quid pro quo and the phone call was a normal call between two leaders.
Nancy Pelosi is not a wise choice to lead the impeachment effort. Her career is notable mainly as that of a loyal follower of the Democratic Party establishment. Aged 79, she is 3 months away from being the oldest House speaker ever, and her age hampers her ability.
There is no tradition of House speaker leading presidential impeachment inquiries and proceedings. In the only prior presidential impeachment deliberation not overwhelmingly dominated by narrow partisan or ideological considerations (Nixon's), Peter Rodino, House Judiciary Committee chair, was the key actor. Rodino then 64, was born to immigrant parents, worked for 2 decades in various jobs, earned a law degree, and a bronze star for service in World War II, before joining Congress.
In contrast, Pelosi was born into Democratic Party politics (her father was a Democratic Congressman). After college in DC, she worked for 25 years as a Democratic staffer and campaign manager, before being elected to succeed the Congressman she worked for in San Francisco. Her public career is overwhelmingly dominated by being a Democratic party loyalist from a safe district.
There is no good reason for Congressional Democrats not impeaching Trump many months ago. It was pure timidity, and subservience to Pelosi's narrow-minded "judgment." To see this simply imagine Trump having been a Democrat, and Republicans winning the House: Think impeachment within the first months, gigantic rallies with signs reading "Jail the traitor," etc.
2
@Sage
An interesting and informative comment with an astute assessment of Pelosi and her ability to lead an impeachment inquiry. However I think that Pelosi's reputation as an elder stateswoman and her long experience of the Washington politic arena are distinct advantages in this case.
17
Donald Trump has no intention of cooperating with the impeachment inquiry by the House of Representatives, just as he never intended to cooperate with the investigation by special counsel Robert Mueller.
The letter to Congress from Pat Cipollone, the White House counsel, is an expected laundry list of demands, designed only to give Mr. Trump the ability to play the role of a victim of partisan persecution and to allow specious arguments to be advanced in court to block or delay compliance with subpoenas for documents or for witnesses.
Speaker Nancy Pelosi already has the appropriate House committees involved in the impeachment inquiry, and the Republicans see every document received and have the opportunity to interrogate every witness who appears.
The great irony of this particular impeachment is that the required Constitutional misdemeanor or misbehavior of Donald Trump in the Ukraine calls has already has been admitted by Mr. Trump and by his personal adviser/attorney, Rudy Giuliani. The president is being impeached on his own words.
As far as the crime of the cover-up, that has been found credible by the inspector general and urgent. The duty of Congress is to move quickly, not to slow down in order to make President Trump happy.
51
After three years of practice Trump's has built an impressive PR machine as witnessed by the speed with which the alternative narrative of an illegal and unprecedented assault on the President by the Democratic Party has been launched.
Trump has the support in this of a large section of the news media and a majority of the Senate. The argument that this is an attempt to overturn the 2016 election and thus thwart the will of the people will be a persuasive one with many who view the President as the champion of the discontented masses.
Pelosi will have to be careful how she proceeds. Any serious tactical error could result in the opposite of what is needed-
a sympathy shift in undecided voters towards the underdog fighting the 'elitist, east coast city dwellers'.
8
Actually, it’s Trump who’s running scared. And he should be.
26
Mr. Trump is waging war, not on the Democrats in the House, but on Congress itself.
His "acting" administration is just as surely circumventing the Senate as his games with appropriations is negating the House's role in government spending.
One hundred-some Republican attorneys in congress and not one of them seems to place the U.S. constitution above Mr. Trump.
But it's just a matter of time before Mr. Trump treats the GOP senators as he has every other ally.
31
@Grennan - I guessed that those remaining acting were never to be fully confirmed to circumvent any attempts to institute a move to remove via the 25th A.
3
They say KGB has a rule: When caught red-handed, deny everything.
Trump probably learned this rule from the former head of KGB and his buddy Putin, so he's been using it since the beginning and denying everything. His behavior will not change regardless of what concessions Pelosi offers him.
So yes, "rules, rigor and resolution," but keep in mind that we're dealing with someone who knows no rules or lower bounds. You can't take the fight down to his level, but winning against him with rules and rigor will be difficult, if the courts don't step in and help.
15
The problem is time. There are only 12 months until the election. With prodding from the Kochs, Mercers and other right wing kingmakers, Trump only cared about two things--tax cuts for rich Republican donors (done) and appointing right wing judges (done and ongoing). So he could not care less about legislative accomplishments in his next 12 months. So to Trump and his lawyers, fighting with Congress until the election over every single aspect of the impeachment investigation is just fine with him. It will exhaust the Congress, the media and the voters. And he won't be impeached anyway by a Republican controlled Senate.
This is not to say that this process is not appropriate or, in fact, duty-driven given what Trump appears to have done. But even with this investigation ongoing, Donald Trump will certainly be the GOP nominee in 2020.
Sp the ultimate vote on impeachment will be by the voters.
8
“Rules, rigor and resolution”. That’s good.
But first, Mrs Pelosi, ask Siri if it makes sense to have an electoral system that allows the candidate who takes the fewest votes to win.
26
Yeah, because we really need lessons on how to run elections from Italy.
There's a quicker option than impeachment, and the time has come for Trump Cabinet members to act in the interests of the nation rather than in the interests of Donald Trump.
25th Amendment to the Constitution
"Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."
22
@AnotherCitizen - My point exactly - are Acting principal officers of the executive departments considered equal in this regard, as those fully confirmed and sworn in ?
1
@AnotherCitizen Trump is increasingly erratic in his decisions; this impeachment process may do one of two things to him, I suspect.
1. Trump's abysmal health catches up with him, and he has a massive heart attack or stroke that leave him severely weakened and near death for the foreseeable future. For obvious health reasons, he can't continue and is removed from office via the 25th Amendment.
2. Trump finally has a full-blown psychological meltdown. He attacks friends, family members, and advisors physically, and is deemed mentally incapable of carrying out his duties. He is removed from office via the 25th Amendment.
I won't be surprised when it happens. More than likely, Moscow Mitch will realize he's got a ticking Trump bomb on his hands that will blow up in his own face. He'll go to Nancy and say "I've spoken with the Republican senators, and we have enough votes to convict him. Send us the articles as soon as you can." As much as I despise McConnell, the man's smart enough to know when he should cut his ties to someone.
With Fox misrepresenting this as a coup and Republicans saying the Democrats want to "steal the election", Pelosi and Schiff and the Democratic leadership must be emphatic and clear and constant that this inquiry is instead a matter of the Constitution and the law versus an anarchic administration.
45
While it may be wise to grant the White House certain procedural protections, this can happen if, and only if, the White House cooperates to at least some degree. Otherwise the House is simply allowing the White House to prepare its distortions of the truth ahead of the Senate trial. But the suggestion that the minority party should be given subpoena power could only be made by someone who hasn’t been paying any attention to politics in the past decade. Republicans would use this power to turn the proceedings into a complete circus, allowing them to float conspiracy theories as if they were equally deserving of attention. In short, it would transform what should be a solemn undertaking into live Twitter.
26
Gentlemen:
Where have all the rules, rigor and resolution been to date?
The Democratic leadership has seemed more pusillanimous than determined over the first 992 days of Mr. Trump's presidency.
6
First of all, the Democrats took control of the House of Representatives in mid-January. Up until then the Republicans controlled both House and Senate! So Democrats did not lack courage nor determination! They lacked power! Republicans blocked every single attempt to hold the Criminal Republican president accountable!
This just in: Nancy Pelosi, not precisely a gentleman.
@Jack Magan - oh so the Dems show a lack of courage?
How about having to navigate a playbook with no teeth?
$20. 00 for another big word!
As I read all these stories and editorials about rules, procedures and votes that Democrats plan to follow, I wonder if these things matter any more in the lawless environment Trump has created. It’s time that those who ignore subpoenas and our other rules of law be hauled from their offices and thrown in jail. If there are no penalties for breaking the law, then there are no laws.
97
@LIChef
how did Trump create any environment when he probaby hasn't brought 300 people of his choosing into a city with tens of thousands of people who worked under Pres. Obama?
Oh - I know how: he tells CNN-Fake News, msNBC, and the old network news departments what to say every morning.
Why didn't I think of that first?
Ask future presidential candidate Eric Holder about ignoring subpoenas.
While a judge may be more comfortable granting subpoenas if the House as a whole were to vote on impeachment articles, it hardly matters. There would never be absolute agreement. Whatever the vote was, Trump would say it wasn’t enough. That would be his stalling tactic. There is ample proof, some supplied by Trump, of his demand for a quid pro quo before approved funds were released to Ukraine. I expect, before the week is out, or at least I hope, that another whistle blower will come forward with the reason Trump rolled over for Turkey to decimate the Kurds. If they don’t, they’re going to hate themselves for the rest of their lives.
Any Judge will have adequate reason to issue subpoenas without a certain number or type of Congressmen voting for impeachment articles. As far as Republicans having their investigations, they have already started several investigations into Mueller’s report, nothing prevents them from starting more into Ukraine or whatever. There wasn’t a full House vote or Dem approval for Republicans to do that investigation. Pompeo seems to be getting Federal monies to run after the imagined Biden witch-hunt or lost Clinton emails, another fine use of taxpayer’s monies.
16
@Barbara Snider You are correct, responding to subpoenas is not an option, vote or no vote. trump has participated in well over 4,000 lawsuits in his career--he's a master at using the courts as a delaying tactic.
At this point, the Dems don't need the courts, they have enough already.
The Democrats should invite Mr. Trump to come testify before their committees. Under oath. What could provide him better due process than that?
35
@Pam trump wouldn't go. This is what we're dealing with. Our greatest hope might be that enough of his supporters begin to realize what and who trump is.
10
@Urban.Warrior
They should request nonetheless.
1
Every attempt by Trump et al to set fire to the Constitution should be reported on, both by the press and by the television and radio media. This showdown between Congress and the President should be turned into a lesson, among others, in Constitutional Law and the importance of the Constitution and the faithful adherence to it as the most important element in holding our union together. Especially important would be the lesson on the wisdom of three coequal branches of government and the wisdom of the founders in acknowledging that it was especially important that the Congress be first among equals. I leave it to the ingenuity of the press to make these lessons clear and their importance to our way of life and past success of our Republic clear. A Constitution is not worth the paper it is printed on if the officials who swear to defend it are not ethical and adhere to their oaths in support of it. We, the citizens, have only one real tool to prevent a President from harming the country, that is the impeachment process granted to us in the US Constitution, the oldest Constitution in the world, and the instrument which has guaranteed our success.
23
@Harold Johnson - I wish someone would buy ad time on Fox and run all of the above as a series of (your civic moments) educational ads.
@Harold Johnson
Fox is barely covering Trump’s betrayal of our national security interests and our allies. Our allies are people who saved us from more foreign terrorists attacks on our soil, and tonight they are dying directly because of Trump’s treason.
Democrats have already wasted two years, expecting Trump to "pivot" into his job, for the Republicans to grow a spine, for Barr to uphold the law, for Mueller to hit the big red alarm button for the public, and on and on - all because they insist on playing by the 'rules', while the President simply makes things up.
Isn't it time for Dems play that game? What would be lost if they took the offensive, and held witnesses who didn't testify in immediate contempt, with financial and other penalties accruing from day one? What would be so wrong if Committees took preemptive steps in the courts to head off the obstruction they know is coming, in advance? Why not offer some reward to whistle blowers to come forward, keep them anonymous, and streamline the entire process? All we want is evidence. So why not get those hidden phone calls, by any means necessary?
The Democrats are still assuming they can reverse the lawless chaos Mr. Trump is unleashing by maintaining civility, logic, and meticulous rules. That's like trying to solve the homeless problem in our major cities by offering them workshops on home mortgages.
If there was ever any chance of rescuing our democracy with conventional means, that ship has sailed. Time for Dems to treat this like the mob conspiracy it really is, and crack down hard, so that there is a real and immediate cost to those who aid the corruption and coverup.
36
This editorial in an attempt to be balanced is instead double- minded. Trump and his cohorts in the Congress seek no fairness in their beyond-the-pale and unprecedented obstruction. Some of the accommodations to Trump suggested in this column might be reasonable if the White House were acting in good faith which they clearly are not. I think the public, especially democrats would take heart in seeing democrats playing hardball for a change and not acting like the patsy. The republicans thought nothing about fairness or the appearance thereof in the Merrick Garland fiasco, among their many other hardball moves. Democrats need to message what they are doing and keep the focus on the issue here. Trump has said that anyone invoking the Fifth Amendment must be guilty. His "reasoning" applies as well to one hiding behind various claimed privileges or specious arguments. Full speed ahead democrats.
22
@Henry Watkins
Not only did they not care about the Garland fiasco, they actually thought it was great! Same thing with Kegger Kavanaugh. The Reds rejoice at liberal tears, they think this whole mess is funny. Meanwhile the Dems look like the smart kid being beaten up for his lunch money. Time to get tough, the future of the country is at stake.
@Henry Watkins
TIME FOR THE DEMS TO PLAY HARDBALL.
After this last gambit of the republicans for more conditions to continue the impeachment inquiry, there is no longer any doubt that they will try to subvert the process in any way they can.
I'd like to see every dem write to their congressmen/women to express support for the impeachment inquiry to hurry on and to punish anyone who refuses requests for information. Everyday day that passes Trump does something else that is more rotten than the day before. We need to get this impeachment ball rolling before he causes the world more damage.
The idea that the Democrats need to display fairness is absurd. What they need to display is cold-blooded Machiavellianism, and impeach Trump however their rules allow. That is clearly the only thing that Trump and his base respect.
Perceptions are irrelevant. The constitution defines “fairness” in terms of structural checks and balances, and Article I says the House can do whatever it wants.
35
@Uncle Jetski Cold-blooded Machiavellianism?
That's a fine thing to say, until we remember that Machiavelli truly meant for rulers "to gain power, and then to hold power, by any means necessary".
By any means necessary.
This would include executions and assassinations of Trump, Trump's family, and Trump's cabinet secretaries and advisors.
Are you certain that this is what you want to advocate for?
1
@Ethan Henderson A reasonable interpretation of my statement would presume that I do not advocate for violence, but if it needs to be said, consider it done. (The same, of course, can't be said of Trump, who calls for the execution of whistleblowers and death to the press.) The important point is that the past few administrations have stripped Congress of its power, and given too much to the Executive branch. This needs to be corrected - although not with extreme prejudice, as you might wrongly infer me to mean.
6
It should be illegal for any politician to use tax dollars to accomplish anything to benefit him or her personally - like re-election.
19
“The Democrats are on a collision course with basic truth: The World of Politics (does not)=The World of the Courts.
Up to now, the Impeachment Inquiry has existed in the World of Politics. And, the Democrats have enjoyed the backing of an unwritten consensus: that the intention behind Trump’s requests to foreign Gov.’s for corruption investigations was clearly to politically strengthen his 2020 campaign by undermining his adversaries.
Because it is unwritten, the consensus of Trumps intention is held by Republicans and Democrats Alike. Both know the truth even though only one will admit it vocally.
The collision will come when Democrats attempt to carry the support of the unwritten consensus enjoyed in the World of Politics into the World of the Courts. For the Democrats’, the The World of the Courts will demands conclusive, written evidence of Trumps intention that they simply cannot provide. The unwritten will not hold up for a minute, while the forces behind Trump will look for, and inevitably find, the smallest thing that shows Trumps intention has room for alternate interpretation, and in doing so will demonstrate the bare minimum of Reasonable Doubt needed to prevail in the Courts.
In short, the Democrats are doomed from the minute they enter the World of the Courts, because intention is almost impossible to prove beyond all reasonable doubt. The Republicans, by spinning even one single word or deffintion, will prevail."
3
Sorry Dude, you are mistaken in your comment about reasonable doubt. When Congress goes to court to force Donald J. Chaos & Co. to back off and release more evidence, reasonable doubt will not be a criteria for the judges. They will be making a judgement on whether the Congressional subpoena should be confirmed and evidence must be handed over. The House will be making a judgement on whether Trump is guilty of corruption and that a recommendation for a trial of Trump by the Senate should be passed and forwarded to the Senate.
5
@αληθής στοχαστής This isn't going to the courts. Impeachment is a 100% political process. You wasted a lot of print for nothing.
Yes, and the most important rule that Pelosi can follow is allowing her committee chairs to begin enfrocing the subpoenas by arresting and jailing anyone who openly defies a subpoena by failing to appear at a hearing or provide documents when requested. In fact, it might only take a single instance of this - say, arresting Mike Pompeo or Don McGahn - to freak everyone else out enough to prevent any further open obstruction of justice during the inquiry.
36
@Maani Rantel
I agree, fines will mean nothing to these jerks. The humiliation of being stuffed into cage is a horse of a different color. They will fold like a house of cards.
Contrary to popular belief, Trump did not get rolled by the President of Turkey on Sunday by agreeing that Turkish troops can move into Kurd occupied Syria. Turkey got rolled. Trump wants a big distraction from the impeachment fiasco and there is nothing like a war to distract everyone, particularly if it is a war he did not start. Does is matter that thousand of Kurds will be killed and more will have to move to safer locations? Obviously it is a small price to pay to preserve his ego.
23
trump’s letter to Pelosi is just more of the same: obstruct, obstruct and cover-up. The Dems were wrong to elect Pelosi as speaker and are way too late to the impeachment process. The country needed a war-time Speaker of the House that would have raised impeachment a year ago and these battles would be behind us. Of course hind sight is 20-20. Now what is needed is for the Dems to wise up and grow up and attack trump and his cronies in the House, in the courts, in the press and convince the weak-kneed Republican senators that the safety of our nation and the world is at stake. This is our modern day 9/11, our Pearl Harbor, and D-day all wrapped in the guise of one man that needs to be impeached and removed from office.
22
Politics in America has forever been altered by the Trump administration and his Republican co-conspirators who have total disregard for the unspoken rules of our government, contempt for the US Constitution and have blatantly ignored objective truth, science and reality.
Democrats who play by the old rules are going to get run over.
It’s unfortunate that this has happened to America, but we cannot return to the old rules as long as half of our political representatives have contempt for the old system.
I too am not happy about the situation; however we must acknowledge the new reality and write new rules so as to ensure that the Democratic Party can undo the homophobic, misogynistic, anti-intellectual, nativist reactionary policies of Trump administration and his Republican co-conspirators.
24
You guys need to study literary criticism. A text can be read a number of ways (look at all the literary analyses of famous authors for examples of the multitudinous ways to interpret a text). Here you have an utterance, as well as text, specifically a conversation. The listener is the one to appropriately interpret the ‘text,’ and he has said it was a pleasant convo w no pressure. The speaker also has a central place in assigning motives and intent for their utterance. This impeachment is not only a political farce but a failure to understand both an utterance and a text of same.
2
@aldebaran Your statement presupposes that the "listener" in this case, the Ukrainian president, feels that he can speak truthfully to how he felt about that conversation. He has every reason to say exactly what he said, even if it is not true. He has every incentive to try to remain in the graces of a man who unilaterally decided to withhold many millions of dollars of desperately needed military aid. An important part of textual analysis is context.
16
@aldebaran Members of Trump's own diplomatic corps interpreted his actions over a period of weeks in exactly the same way the House is, and they were horrified. At the time the Ukrainians understood it to be a shakedown - they discussed it with US diplomats. The White House staff hid the transcript of the call because they knew it would hang Trump. And, remember, we've only seen a two page 'summary' of an eight page call.
Trump's problem isn't just a line in a sanitized transcript he released: it's the entire chain of evidence, witnesses and behavior.
16
@aldebaran
You need to understand that the pressure is irrelevant, Trump's intention is irrelevant and the quid pro quo is irrelevant. THE ASK is the heart of the matter. THE ASK is illegal and an impeachable offense. The president cannot ask a foreign leader to interfere with a US election. If Trump wanted to know what Hunter and Joe Biden were doing in Ukraine he would have contacted the state dept. FBI or the CIA.
It's time for the Democrats to bring a gun to a gun fight. When the enemy is in disarray and defending poor ground, you must go on the attack. It is Trump and the Republicans versus the Democrats and the Constitution.
17
Thank you for this excellent commentary on the Trumped-up letter. It seems to have been written by the kind of skilled professional liar that despots always have on whatever their era's version of speed-dial may be. I especially hope that even the rightest-wing of Republicans can see the outrageousness of labelling as "unconstitutional" the actions of a legally-elected-and-duly-sworn-in House of Representatives. If that label sticks, we are on a fast ride down the low road to a dictatorship.
12
Lets follow the Constitution to the letter. It gives the House full authority to begin and conduct impeachment. The very act that we have come to this should provide no further courtesies to this reckless unlawful President.
16
The letter is an obstruction. These delaying tactics undermined the Mueller investigation. Speaker Pelosi’s job is to investigate, enforce subpoenas, hold witnesses in contempt. and defend the Constitution. Lectures on fairness while our Kurd allies are dying in Turkey due to a deranged president are insulting to Democrats and Times readers.
18
I disagree with your recommendation of procedural fairness. For a normal President ? Sure! But a President who has redefined what it means to be a President - follow no mores, no rules, no code of conduct, no boundaries, and prize personal loyalty and what's in it for him above all, fairness is wasted!
The best thing Pelosi can do is to be unpredictable and disruptive - essentially, beat him at his game.
17
This entirely fails to convince me.
The Editorial Board wanted impeachment on Election Night 2016. It has never stopped looking for any excuse. It made up its mind before any of these events even happened.
We know you hate Trump and never wanted him to have the office. That may even be right. That does not make "any excuse" persuasive.
8
@Mark Thomason So you don't think clearly illegal acts by Trump warrant him being held accountable.
Please show us the letter about impeachment from the editorial board in 2016.
Why didn’t Nancy Pelosi bring up impeachment proceedings against George W Bush for his war crimes and lying us into a war that resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands? At that time Pelosi said it wasn’t worth her effort. Is it because she was aware of the torture program and said nothing? Is Pelosi now being saying that what Trump did rises above that of Bush?
4
@steve
Maybe she is thinking about the death of hundreds of thousands of Union Soldiers who thought that the Stars and Stripes stood for something worth fighting for: Fair and free elections that "this country, of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from this earth".
@steve
We aren't talking about Bush, we are talking about Trump.
Up until this very moment, Trump has taken the initiative and put the Democrats back on their heels, from the very first request for documents and testimony during the Mueller investigation and the Congressional committee hearings, all the way to today. When will the Democrats draw a line in the sand and enforce it? Why not issue fines to those who refuse to testify or provide documents? Failing that, jail a few. Let's see how deep their loyalty to Trump is when they actually have to pay a personal price.
Until the Democrats fight back, they're going to look weak and ineffectual. And relying on the courts to fight their battles is a certain path to defeat. Ultimately, any court decision will be appealed to the SCOTUS, and with the Republican's successful stacking of the court with conservatives, we can predict how those verdicts will turn out.
Trump is acting like a dictator, and will only understand what all tyrants do: power. Quit dissembling and fighting with one hand tied behind your back! Use the power vested in you by the Constitution to levy consequences for failure to cooperate with your legitimate investigations and inquiries.
16
Speaking of fights.
Barack Obama channeled nationalism into a victory over Osama bin Laden.
Trump is attempting to twist nationalism into a wreckage of the work of Barack Obama.
His enduring traits are unprincipled legal assaults, contempt, and waste of resources. A recent article noted that he is incapable of ethical awareness: asking for an ethical response would be like "asking your microwave what is on Netflix."
5
The president and his vituperative lawyer, Pat Cipollone, ought to be ashamed of themselves. They would be, if blushing shame would deign to visit them.
This aberrancy cannot be allowed to define our country for all time. What the 45th president is attempting to do is deconstruct history and precedent and good order and the impetus for him to do that is his asymmetrical personality and his awkward, clumsy history of coercion and deceit and deception. These negatives worked for him in private industry but they cannot be allowed to prevail in government.
He has hired on lawyers who have overturned the Constitution so that they may find a loop here or a hole there or some sentence or clause or wording in the Articles of Impeachment in which they may extract something of a justification for denying the Congress its Constitutional and lawful engine to examine and report out bills that would find him in violation of his solemn and sworn oath.
Speaker Nancy Pelosi, in her wisdom, held back the baying hounds in her House to clamored to the skies for a start to impeachment long ago. Wisely, she understood that Donald Trump would, of his own rash accords, plunge into the mire and find himself unable to make sense of most of what he has said and done while in office.
The president's own recorded words have brought about these inquiries. He was not trapped or baited or tricked or used or fooled; he willingly, because he knows no better, committed a crime because it's what he does.
24
Can’t anyone see that, in addition to reasons provided above by the Editorial Broad, a primary reason the Speaker isn’t willing to give in to the Trumpists re: their demand for an Inquiry vote is that Trump and the RNC are lying in wait to dump millions into a false ad campaign against each of the Dems from swing districts BEFORE ANY FINAL VOTE ON ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT? The Trumpists are unwillingly but utterly transparent in their save-Trump machinations.
9
@Larry
I see and agree. They have been yapping about it all day on FOX.
1
I know the GOP Senate will give Trump his Get Out of Jail Free card, but I am happy someone is standing up for the Constitution and the Rule of Law. I see now, as many have noted, how dictators take over a country with a minority.
15
@gratis That may be true, however it will be done in the shadow of public knowledge of evidence proving Trumps illegal activities
1
Article goes back and forth like an old seesaw. My guess is House Democrats will not look efficient or effective in the days to come. Sad, but true.
1
After this is all over and we are free of this sick man, Congress needs to reel in the power of the presidency so that this terrible situation can not happen again
They can start with his power to involve our military in any military action whatsoever without the explicit approval of Congress and make it clear that the military can only be activated if the actual territory of the U S is in immediate danger of being physically attacked. Period.
Then they need to explicitly limit his power to withhold information pertaining to an ongoing investigation of his actions. If it takes an amendment to our Constitution, then so be it.
If there is a silver lining to this incredible disaster let it be that he has forced us to look at the very foundation of our Democracy. There are things that absolutely need to be fixed in order to strengthen it.
13
This, like supposed questions about the credibility of the original whistleblower, is irrelevant.
Trump’s method, when confronted with his own malfeasance, is to delay, distract and attack the investigators. These are not serious objections brought by people who respect democracy.
It is already patently obvious from the call transcript, which is public, testimony that has already taken place and Trump’s own public admissions that he is guilty of both abuse of his office and obstruction of justice. This particular dispute is merely window dressing.
9
The Democrats FEAR discovery. They refuse to let citizens know anything about what is being sain in their four meetings so far.
The hearings are part of an effort to remove this American President from office. There could not be a matter of more pressing public concern than these, surely!
There could not be a matter in which the American people have a greater stake. And yet the public has no idea what is being discovered.
WHAT information do the Dems fear? That the everyday citizen would learn that they have NOTHING?
We have to assume that either they have nothing to go on or else that the Dems discussing things are the most untrustworthy people on the planet.
1
All these procedural niceties are completely wasted on Trump's core, who have exactly zero knowledge or interest in the charges against him and they are equally wasted on the majority of Americans (Fox poll!) who now want to see him impeached. Sure, Speaker Pelosi, go through the motions, but it will not affect the situation in any way.
1
Trump is playing the stall game. He is trying to run out the clock in hopes of minimizing damage to his reelection campaign. Time for another jiu jitsu maneuver. Call his bluff.
He wants a trial? Give him one. Hold vote to begin a formal impeachment. Let the House serve the function of a grand jury and turn their indictments over to the Senate. Then, let's have that trial!
Let the Republicans cross examine and subpoena all they want. If they do, then they are forced to participate in the impeachment process which is exactly what they are trying to avoid. When there is a mountain of evidence to convict, they can spin it all they want, but the 64% who are not members of the Trump can do no wrong club will see the truth and vote against him.
If Pelosi is worried about losing a few seats, that is an acceptable loss to rid the nation of a demagog. More importantly, exposing Trump in public with a real trial could very well put the Senate in play. That is the real prize.
The way I see it, a formal, public and intense impeachment trial in the Senate would be the best way to flip it to the Democrats. If Moscow Mitch derails the trial, then that will be even more motivation for the public to vote for Democratic Senators.
Trump cannot win with 36%. The trial can whittle down his support to that level. Go all in and do it now. Then watch Trump squirm.
9
This should be Trump's "A Few good Men" moment. "Yes! I did order the code red!"". Asserting the right to use the power of government to extort help from a foreign country to investigate a campaign rival should have ended his presidency already. But, of course, this isn't a movie.
6
Trump loves being triumphant and once again Pelosi is staring at a checkmate and power struggle between the 2 branches of government are moving away from doing the people's work. The editorial board of NY Times is once again taking sides. How does the hitting back that they propose going to help solve the pressing problems facing the country.
A sovereign nation , Syria has been attacked by powerful army of Turkey, a NATO ally. Whats the UN going to do?
2
Way past time to be throwing cream pies at Trump. The House response needs to be firm and resolute.
6
I’ll invoke the well worn bit of folk wisdom: you don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. The Republicans have been conducting mass shootings of the Constitution, precedent and fairness for years. It’s time for the Democrats to come well-prepared and well-armed to the impeachment fight. Give no quarter to Trump and his misguided allies; they certainly won’t be taking prisoners.
10
The Republicans want this inquiry to be "fair?" Just like they handled the nomination of Merrick Garland fairly?
16
The editorial board has helpful advice for House Democrats but where is its advice for House Republicans and the Trump administration? How about this. Comply with House subpoenas or else make a specific claim of executive privilege for specific documents and specific subjects witnesses may be asked to testify about. Stop calling the constitutional authority of the House to impeach "illegitimate" and the legitimate impeachment inquiry a "coup." Both are lies that dishonor and undermine our constitutional government. Prove to the American people that you are not engaged in a purely partisan power struggle to defend your president's wrongdoing and that you take your duties to uphold the Constitution seriously. Prove you put country above party.
9
For the House to put the Impeachment Inquiry up to a full vote at the demand of the WH would, in my opinion, be a huge tactical and strategic mistake. Give no ground to the WH. Give no ground to Trump. The President, WH Counsel, and the AG have no influence or authority over the procedures and processes of the House in regard to Impeachment. The subject of the Inquiry does not set the rules of the inquiry any more than a subject of a criminal investigation gets to control law enforcement’s investigation of the crime. There is no trial or verdict in the course of an Congressional inquiry, there is only the gathering and assessment of information. The WH defense will have their time after the results of the Inquiry when Impeachment passes to the Senate for trial. For now, Trump and the WH need simply comply with the rule of law, the Constitution, and decent public comportment. If nothing else, they need to refrain from further embarrassing themselves, our Government, our Constitution, and our citizens. Keep quiet, you’re wounding everyone with your lies, twisted logic, and commentary. When all the dust settles on this uproariously disgraceful episode, I sincerely hope that there will be legal consequences to all those who have defiled our country, our language, our institutions, our good faith, and our hard-earned well being. May they live in humiliation, ignominy, deprivation, and never see the light of day as free persons. May the name Trump be synonymous with outcast.
13
@Schimsa You seem to forget that in the United States, the subject of an inquiry has a set of due process rights that are enshrined in none other than the constitution.
@Arthur Taylor impeachment does not require due process. The house has the right to conduct their inquiry any way they want. Constitution says so. After all this over, I too hope that Trump & co. get some much needed due process.
6
Ms Pelosi the country and our true allies are counting on you to keep America a shining beacon to the world showing human values ,justice and a quest to perfect our country albeit mistakes in judgement as part of the Human Condition.
4
Sure, Trump cannot be jailed but a lot of the low level operatives can be - why doesn't Congress go after these Republicans? The more of them that are out of the picture, the better.
I actually don't think Congress should do the above - I wish Republicans would come to their senses but I don't understand the reluctance.
OTOH I honestly think these are all power politics games - Trump and Pelosi are just actors. No one is really interested in the truth - just using our tax money to become rich themselves and acquire power.
So if the D campaign now starts using foreign agents to do their dirty work...
Extend to the president every courtesy he extended to Kurds. Negotiate impeachment preliminaries with him in the same way he negotiated with Democrats on a bipartisan immigration reform bill. Explain the rules to him with the same clarity he explained his decision to believe Putin over his intelligence agencies. Allow him to provide as many witnesses as he provided to the House investigation committees.
What works for him can also work for the House.
12
The role of the House is to indict. The Articles of Impeachment that may result from such an investigation are the indictment. The indictment is then followed by a trial in the Senate. At that point, evidence would be presented and witnesses questioned by the prosecution and the defense. It is then and there that the President will have his due process.
13
I just realized something very important. I am sure others have as well, but it’s VERY important the Democrats understand this.
Donald Trump is very consistent in his patterns.
Throughout his career in real estate, he often did things which many people thought was illegal (refuse to pay people, etc.) and they brought him to court. He would hire an expensive team of lawyers. This would dissuade some people from suing him, because he had deeper pockets than them to spend on lawyers. When they did take him on in court, he would offer to settle out of court and then declare himself free of any wrongdoing.
This is what he’s doing now- except it is with the US Congress this time. He is hoping to just fight it in court, escape legal charges of wrongdoing (in this case impeachment and removal from office) and “settle” it. If he gets away with it, and my guess is he probably will, he will just continue to do this again and again as he always has. 
If the Democrats realize this, they can come up with a suitable counter strategy.
11
For this particular point in time, given the current situation, all that has come before and which path we will travel down now, there is a not so secret weapon. The House of Representatives and their Speaker have the responsibility to perform their constitutional duty on our behalf. This President has given them no choice.
16
the inquiry is to find the facts, is not an accusation, why does it need to be authorized by the full House vote ?
to block the Congress to witnesses and documents wth fake rules and different excuses , is to stop the inquiry from getting the facts, isn't that objection of justice ?
plain and simple.
11
I suppose the part about laying out clear rules makes sense, if they haven't done that already.
At this point it would be better not to do the vote thing, just to avoid the appearance of caving in to White House demands. If they could get some elder statesman to suggest it as a good idea, they could go ahead with it. Jimmy Carter? But it's important to remind people in every way that the legislative branch is co-equal.
4
You write that arguing for the propriety of misusing national security authorities to "shakedown" a foreign governmet for campaign dirt is "the only position the White House can take, because the facts of the July 25 call are not in dispute."
Only if you concede from the start that this is appropriately an adversarial exercise in which the White House must zealously pursue its sole interests in order to reach a fair conclusion.
But this is wrong. The White House's position attacks the foundations of national identity that constitute the arena for any legitimate contest of ideas.
With this letter, White House -- its lawyers and functionaries no less than the President -- has written itself out of the American story; it has otherized itself.
This is not a position it has taken in a debate; it is a performative commitment, like a declaration of war.
15
@David
Perhaps. But, listening to the right wing, it is a war they have been spoiling for. Many literally, if one is to believe what they say. They love Trump for his ability to hurt the left, and they do not respect the rule of law because they feel the Dems get away with things they cannot. And they are 40% and committed to this support.
9
@David
Your description of the Executive's attempt to subordinate Congress is fair enough, but that does not mean the White House would not also argue for that propriety.
4
@David True, the White House is taking a relentlessly adversarial position form the start. But I think what the editors are referring to here is where the White House claims that Trump has done nothing wrong, and that the Democrats know it. Granted that the contents of the call aren't in question, this can only mean that there was nothing wrong with the call and the shakedown, and that this is obvious on the face of it, not a matter of interpretation.
(I'm afraid there is another interpretation that the White House may throw up in defense: they may claim that "I want to ask a favor, though." doesn't suggest a shakedown, doesn't imply any pressure, isn't intended to be a reminder of how much Ukraine needs US assistance, as they were talking about earlier. This is ridiculous of course, the pressure is obvious. But even if we were to accept it by a wild stretch of the imagination, it makes no difference. The whole "quid pro quo" issue is irrelevant. The crime is in asking the favor, plain and simple. You aren't supposed to solicit assistance from foreign governments, even if your solicitation was in the form of begging and pleading, or of just asking for a friendly favor. Well, this will all probably be discussed at length by experts.)
13
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell stacked the Senate rules and manipulated Republican refusal to even consider President Obama’s nominee to the US Supreme Court. Republicans now have become so far right and so extreme that giving them a voice in the House risks Republican leaders diverting attention away from Trump to bogus conspiracy theories. I trust Speaker Pelosi to
make the best call for the timing of the whole House vote.
52
Since Congress holds the power of the purse (and if Donald Trump understands anything, it is money), let me make three suggestions for Congressional action that can be taken rather quickly: First, freeze all funds for Air Force One until every single subpoena and request for documents by the investigating committees has been satisfied. Second, freeze all funds for the Secret Service's protection of members of the Trump family for the exact same reasons. Third, pass a bill that would require the re-election campaign of any sitting president who is planning to hold a political rally in an American city to pay *in full and in advance* an estimate of the costs of renting municipal facilities, staffing up security, and overtime pay for local police. Trump may be very free with spending taxpayer dollars, but if he has to spend his own?
63
@George Heymont
Trump will divert funds from the defense budget. Or he will just spend the frozen money, ignoring Congress.
1
I have faith in Pelosi. Not so much her colleagues. If the rest of the Dems just let Pelosi do her job she will get the job done.
26
The White House has already set fire to the Constitution and the congressional republicans are now throwing on the gasoline.
27
@Hub Harrington
And the GOP base support does not waver one tiny bit.
1
Dear House Democrats: you are in the right for calling for an impeachment investigation. Do not allow the man and administration to dictate terms of the investigation and impeachment proceedings. It is akin to negotiating with a terrorist. By constitutional decree, the House sets the terms and conducts an investigation as it sees fit. There is zero justification for Trump & Co to withhold anything. Do not capitulate in the slightest. Laws have been changed since previous investigations. Trump must follow said laws, not to mention our Constitution and hundreds of years of precedent.
77
Cipollone and the White House lawyers are in trouble. The witnesses to the call who were disturbed by its tenor are informed and credible international relations and intelligence professionals. As lawyers, hiding the transcript while knowing, from credible accounts, their client's likely culpability is itself a crime.
Any discussion between White House lawyers and career intelligence professionals who will have said that they were disturbed by Trump's call and his possible criminality *should not* have led them to sequester the transcript of the call in an inappropriate, limited access system. That's concealment of evidence.
59
Call Trump's bluff. Mobilize the States' Volunteer Militias to arrest and jail without benefit of bond those who impede the investigation by failing to testify or to produce all required documents on time. This action I believe is what the Founders meant when they added the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
12
@Indy1
No need to go to any extra-legal stuff. The second amendment was a crazy way to provide military protection to the new country after the American revolution and really nothing more than a militia amendment. The third amendment was a companion amendment, which addresses the need to privately quarter troops -- except in time of war.
5
Why should the House do anything else but insist that the White House answer the requests and subpoenas before making one concession? trump wants to be a horse trader, bargaining for advantage. The House should trade back by upping the penalties for the continued obstruction.
trump only understands power, and the House needs to understand that as well.
39
When the impeachment inquiry was announced, there was widespread talk that it would be completed by Novemeber and submitted to the Senate. It was dubious then and even more so now that this would be of benefit inasmuch as it might all be forgotten well before the 2020 election. In a way the White House's stonewalling will prolong the inquiry so that it will remain fresh in the minds of voters up to and including November of next year.
13
Good editorial! Bravo....
Setting the rules on its own terms also gives the American people a chance to see how the House conducts this important task of impeachment which is removing the president and voiding the election results.
Finally, by the action of the Democrats controlled House we now see our representatives are doing their duty to uphold our constitution and protect our democracy.
Republicans are still out there taking the paychecks and drinking coffee, what a bunch of scavengers...
16
Dear Speaker Pelosi,
Impeach Trump Now.
Trump is trying to slow the process down.The transcript of the phone call and the whistle-blower complaint are evidence of violations of oath of office and abuse of power. Add obstruction of Congress and you have three "high crimes and misdemeanors" Three articles of impeachment. Don't delay. Get all members on record to impeach, then push it over to the Senate for the trial. While they delay, the House can go back to talking about health care and infrastructure and gun control and climate change and national security and good paying jobs. The presidential candidates can go back to talking about their plans for our nation. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT hold a vote on an "impeachment inquiry". You're only playing into Trump's hands. Hold one vote, one up and down vote,"do you want to impeach" Yes or No. Then while the Senate conducts the trial you can articulate the reasons for impeachment day after day, over and over again. "We impeached Trump because he endangered our national security for his own personal gain." If this drags on in the House, it looks partisan. Get it into the Senate, by Thanksgiving. Before Thanksgiving. Let them have to deal with it. Also, to strengthen your case but not waste time, call witnesses that you can actually get. Let the members have them repeat the phone call over and over, and repeat the whistle-blower complaint over and over. And do it now. Literally, do it now.
Thank you.
40
During the Nixon impeachment proceedings, the House Judiciary Committee began its inquiry without a full House vote, but instead a vote of the committee, which was a party-line 21-17 decision. Also on October 30, 1973, the committee rejected a Republican amendment that would have allowed a minority veto in issuing subpoenas. Only on February 6,1974 — 3 months later — was a full House vote on authorizing the inquiry taken, and it passed 410-4, indicating that the information and evidence acquired by the committee during those 3 months had resulted in a bipartisan understanding of the need to continue this investigation.
I am under no illusion that Republicans in 2019 will follow the lead of their 1974 forebears and wait to see where the evidence leads them, then place country over party to vote responsibly. But this should at least show that the White House contention that the current House is not following precedent is duplicitous and specious blathering.
36
When the Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee stop calling the impeachment investigation a "kangaroo court" -- and stop disrupting Committee hearings at every opportunity -- the Democratic majority might consider Republican demands for rules changes. That will be the day.
19
I said it on Tuesday, October 8, and I will say it again:
Enough.
It is time for the House to invoke inherent contempt and use its power, described in the Supreme Court ruling in McGrain v Daugherty, 273 US 135 (1927), to arrest and hold any person subpoenaed for testimony or for document production who ignores the subpoena until such time as the person responds to the subpoena, or the Congressional term ends, whichever happens first.
That opinion states that inherent contempt was recognized in the early 1800s as a power of Congress. If the conservatives on the present SCOTUS try to overturn 200 years of settled Constitutional law, they are political hacks.
Congress can also fine a person for ignoring a subpoena.
There is no reason to treat people who thumb their noses at the law with kid gloves.
If you want to disrespect the law, be prepared to pay the associated price.
No person is above the law.
---
Let's go, Representatives. Make the people who thumb their noses at enforcement of valid subpoenas feel the full force of the law. Send them to sit and cool their heels in the DC Jail, general population.
A kid (private citizen) made a dumb mistake, overslept for jury duty, and got a week in the pokey.
These folks are PUBLIC SERVANTS, answerable to the people.
These people are DELIBERATELY disrespecting the rule of law.
If the kid went to jail, these folks need to go to jail for an even longer stretch, and get fined daily at a high dollar amount.
215
@Jose Pieste
Bipartisan support is coming but All the evidence is not in yet. Pelosi trying to get the facts out in the open so there will be bi-partisan support. She is blocked at every turn by the White House that doesn’t seem to want the truth to be known.
42
@Jose Pieste
The 2018 Mid Terms was a HUGE referendum. Please don't talk Mandates or the Will of the People. The Electoral College Won Again... Big Deal.
We are 400M citizens. Only 160M might vote.
This is not a business he is not the founder of this Capital. Our Forefather's internal compass will always keep us protected by people who do not espouse their values. They were not always enforced but the foundation was set in 1776 and in the adoption of our Constitution. We should all be proud to protect those dates and those values put down on paper to protect those pivotal moments in our establishment.
13
@Jose Pieste If so, it will show that Republicans will defend this president no matter what he does, do not uphold the Constitution explicitly giving their own legislative body, the House, clear authority to impeach when a president commits serious wrongdoing, and will sell out their country to keep their jobs.
11
I agree with the Editorial save one salient point. The op-ed errs when it says there is NO due process protection.
The Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination is a due process right which can be asserted before a Congressional inquiry.
That said, Trump and his minions can assert the Fifth Amendment. The invocation of such right may not be admissible in a criminal proceeding; however, it can be used by the Congress as an inference that there is proof of wrongdoing.
6
@Ben
With all due respect, the Fifth Amendment covers only criminal offenses. Impeachment is not a criminal matter. It is only to determine if a person is fit to continue in office. Of course if the person is forced out then they are free to sue to get there job back.
9
@Indy1 Ben's point is that witnesses before Congress can invoke the Fifth Amendment to avoid giving testimony that would indicate that they committed a crime. You are correct that impeachment (and removal) is not a criminal matter, but the 5th Amendment still applies in Congressional hearings.
1
What has Trump done since elected that gives you the impression that he might play by the rules? In fact since he's most unlikely to be removed by the Senate, what the House Democrats are doing is just so much huffing and puffing. They have two choices, impeach now or go to court and try to force Trump to turn over the requested documents. Trump can likely drag the court route out until well into the campaign and then claim it is the Democrats, not the people, who are trying to decide the election results. I'm surprised a wily leader like Ms. Pelosi let them get into this mess. If the Ukraine evidence is as strong as they claim, surely they could have used it instead to defeat Trump in the election. Not every battle has to be won immediately if the cost is too high. A Trump victory in the Senate may mean an election win for him and a loss for some House Democrats.
3
Dear Democrats,
Just in case you have any doubts, know that the rest of the Free World would be absolutely delighted if your Impeachment procedure ends up reasounding success.
And tough luck for the scarlet States!
The gentleman Trump, like it or not, is totally unfit for the job. Totally unfit. Thank you.
A shame for the USA.
154
@Ray Chalifoux
This article was posted four hours ago and there’s been rapid breaking news on all fronts tonight that seem ominous (emphasis on “seem” as I once again temper hope) for Trump’s political survival. It’s evening here with end of day chores waiting, so I can’t even begin to list them all.
Suffice it to say that two things are happening that may lead to the Founders’ Constitutional emergency plan finally kicking into gear: a Fox News poll that has just come out showing majority support for not only impeachment but also removal from office (notably up among Trump’s key constituencies with white evangelical Christians at +5 points, +8 among white men without a college degree, and +10 among rural whites) and cracks in support across Trump’s coalition (white-hot anger over Syria among senators and the national security establishment, growing dissenting views at Fox News, and now Matt Drudge, lionized in conservative media, appearing to break with Trump).
There’s also news of Romney moving behind the scenes among key senators. I know, ugh for us progressives but as I quoted early in this administration a bumper sticker I’d seen on an LA freeway: “I MISS NIXON”. I commented at the time, “Nixon would have never sold America out to the then USSR. He may have been a crook but he was OUR crook.” I may profoundly disagree with Romney but, compared to Trump, he’s a fellow American who acts like it and whom I’ve been startled to realize I now trust.
16
@Ray Chalifoux the gentleman of the world are shrieking in sheer pain!
2
I hope Canadians don’t mind if I continue telling people when I’m abroad that I’m Canadien.
1
Anyone who takes the statements issued by the White House seriously is a fool, a coward or a sycophant, or perhaps all three at once. Our country has been seized by the extremist right. We are now teetering on the edge of losing our democracy. The House democrats must fight back with all the intelligence, power and perseverance they can muster.
And, we the people of the United States, must not stand for this.
96
I can't understand how you would be so kind to an extremely dangerous administration very intent on proceeding with a military coup, as they have been preparing for since the campaign. Trump is trying to spark Democrats into action to justify an armed reprisal. You just don't comprehend the danger before us and I've been trying to tell you for years. This is yet another attempt by Republicans to initiate their 1994 "Republican Revolution" by getting you to swing first.
I have a question; if a foreign President can be privy to a phone conversation with the White House, but Congress is excluded, doesn't that appear to be espionage? And what about Trump witholding the millions intended to help Ukraine defend itself against Russian aggression? And what about all the Television industry connections? Don't you think this is a multi-faceted espionage case involving a President and his Republican colleagues? It does to me, and because he hasn't been arrested and charged tells me once again that I was right in stating that Trump was appointed, not elected.
Democrats need to look at the big picture because obviously everyone is straining to understand all the finer details as you miss the forest for the trees. Trump is conducting psychological warfare against you democrats, and it's working just as it has every day for three years. You are facing much more than Trump et al. You are confronting a foreign foe in the military and C.I.A. Flynn/Putin?
Trump controls your televisions.
5
@PATRICK
I have feared for some time that you might be right - not as long as you have feared it apparently but feared it nonetheless. It is easy just to write off Mr. Trump as inept, stupid, immoral or whatever negative adjective one likes - but I think it is frighteningly possible that he is part of a plan with enemies of the USA, either by his own consent or because he can be so readily manipulated (while narcissists are difficult to deal with, some know how to play them by stroking their egos in just the right way). BTW, I am not a conspiracy theory sort of person in the least and I hope I am wrong but there are too many signs in too many places to ignore the possibility.
The fact that we got a horror such as Trump in the first place tells much about what the elite will allow as they maintain their positions of wealth and power.
Notice that Trump's payment to and harassment of a former liaison didn't do it. His torture of immigrant children didn't do it. His incitement to riot at campaign rallies didn't do it. His support of those "very fine" people didn't do it, and these issues are but tip of his iceberg of wrongdoing. Broken nuclear arms treaties and environmental destruction also come to mind.
Only if a president threatens the legitimacy of the two-party system, such as Nixon did, will the opposing party bring articles of impeachment against a president. Clinton was an exception in contemporary politics and he self-destructed on his own without Republican help.
11
The Editors can't have it both ways.
On tone hand, we're told that a House authorization vote is not legally necessary and would unwisely concede power over the procedure to the White House, undermining Congress' coequal status, all to no avail because "Mr. Trump has no intention of cooperating with an impeachment inquiry".
On the other hand, we're nevertheless told that it "may be a mistake for the Democrats to proceed much further without an authorization by the House" and "there are good reasons to grant Mr. Trump certain procedural protections at this stage".
The compelling arguments made on the first hand totally outweigh the wishy-washy sentiments of the other hand.
In fact, per the Editors, it "would be naïve to believe for a second that, if the House addresses every one of the White House’s stated objections, then the president’s team will endorse this inquiry as legitimate. This administration’s record of contempt toward congressional oversight speaks for itself."
If an effective investigation results in impeachment and a trial in the Senate, the Republican Senate majority assures Trump of due process, and also means the jury is heavily stacked in his favor.
What is really going on here is that Trump is determined to maintain the extraordinary level of secrecy that has characterized his time in Washington. His motivation is not due process, but the cowardly self-concealment of an insecure and dishonest man.
76
@Elliot
Well put, and I agree completely. To comply with Trumps requests for "fair treatment" is giving an inch when he wants a yard. And "fair" in his interpretation is dangerous to contemplate. Any investigation of his words or actions will never be fair in his eyes - months will be spent wrangling with him, and it's not worth it. The house should set parameters and stick with them. And no hand-wringing and any anxiety should accompany these motions.
After almost four years, he is predictable in his behavior, especially when he's in tight corners and can only lash out. He has tamed the senate to comply with his wishes even though they are part of an equal branch of the government.
The house must not lose control of their part in this spectacle, and carry out their impeachment plans fairly and efficiently, according to the laws set out by the constitution.
These are extraordinary times for our country; we are also dealing with an extraordinary chief executive. A thankless job to be handled with great care.
12
This is what happens when one of the two major political parties - the Republican Party - abandons any pretense about honoring and defending our country's democratic principles and the rule of law, and embraces fascism instead.
The Republican Party has been traveling down this path as far back as FDR, whom they have never, ever, gotten over.
24
In other words “the law is what we say it is” a “kangaroo court” definition is there ever was one. The Democrats alway talk about democracy but why trust the people when we can do it ourselves.
3
@Fred C. Dobbs
The people do want impeachment and our elected leaders are pursuing it according to the Constitution. That is not a kangaroo court.
There is ample evidence of guilt Trump has provided by his own admission and the rest he is hiding by not complying with legal subpoenas. If he has nothing to hide, why not let people speak; or something simple, like see his tax returns? We’d like to know the truth and if he is innocent it should be clear from the evidence.
Isn’t that fair?
30
@Fred C. Dobbs
How about the last election, the mid term? Most voter turnout in a mid term in a generation! Actual and on a percentage of voters. Popular vote Democrats over Republicans was 5M plus.
6
Simply stated, if the House were to give an inch, Trump will take a mile. To fight fire with fire, House Democrats should be Trumpian in refusing even the slightest consession or good faith accommodation. Rather, they should play a strong hand, issue appropriate subpoenas with related contempt citations for noncompliance, and prosecute the case against this President with all due speed. Put the heat on Republicans to vote on Trump's removal at his Senate trial and risk even more of his unpredictability, near-treasonous behavior and outright insanity should they fail to do so. One can only imagine if Speaker Pelosi were to publicly state: "China, if you're listening, please provide me with Trump's tax return."
30
One of the basic things this president and his G.O.P. cohorts have failed to recognize is the U.S. Constitution, while they continue to hold themselves above it.
And no matter how they try to spin the story or the facts, they're running out of time.
Donald Trump wanted a wall.
Well he's got one, and her name is Nancy Pelosi.
79
@N. Smith
I think her end game is to get the facts to light that will force Trump to resign. It would be the best thing for the country as then his supporters would know it was the truth that won out and not a political power play.
Godspeed to her.
20
@Matt
Spot on. She's playing the long-game.
And NOBODY knows the Constitution like Nancy Pelosi -- something that Trump and his associates have greatly underestimated...which will be to their chagrin
3
"For one thing, a vote would strengthen Congress’s hand in any litigation arising out of the inquiry."
Why is that help needed? Congress has its own standing which doesn't need the courts to certify. Congress should conduct its business as it sees fit according to the rules in place, as they appear to be doing. If it ends in Corrupt Donnie losing his job and others in jail, or paying heavy fines, so be it.
32
There are 3 elements justifying impeachment:
1) trump places a hold on military aid allocated by congress
2) trump waits a little time, then uses this hold in an attempt to extort a personal favor from the leader of a foreign country
3) the favor is a request for a foreign government to interfere with a US election.
Each of these 3 events in and of themselves is an impeachable offense.
How is this hard to get?
97
@oldBassGuy
actually
3) the favor is a request for a foreign government to interfere with a US election
is in itself a violation of law.
See 52 USC §30121(a)(2) below:
52 USC §30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.
A POTUS who violates the law also violates his oath of office to "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Time to impeach, try, convict and remove Donald John Trump from office, as soon as possible.
3
@oldBassGuy plus the 10 impeachable offenses in the Mueller report
2
The White House is stonewalling. It effectively claims privilege and prevents anyone currently working for the executive branch to respond to subpoena or give testimony to the House.
The record shows impeachable behavior. It seems reasonable to follow up on that malfeasance by interviewing or deposing those no longer working at the WHite House.
My understanding is that privilege cannot be invoked to hide illegal acts. Perhaps questions simply asking if illegal, impeachable or unethical behavior was witnessed by Tillerson, Mattis, the multiple chiefs of staff, Sec of Homeland Security and others might be helpful to Pelosi and Schiff in their oversight role.
28
It is quite apparent that this is a rogue republican administration. It has declared so in it's letter to the Congress. The republicans will not negotiate to come before any investigative body.
It is time for Speaker Pelosi to get an affirmation from the House for an impeachment inquiry. Rather than have an actual vote that allows an impeachment inquiry, I think it best to have a vote that supports the present committees doing the investigating using all of their powers, including suing to have their subpoenas enforced, using inherent contempt as well as a letter directed to the SCOTUS outlining the danger to the country of the aberrant decisions that have already been made as well as the potential to greater harm if a constitutionally required investigation is delayed. That letter would request court guaranteed expedient hearings during this time of crisis.
Such a vote should take place immediately upon the House coming back into session after the recess and those individuals who have refused to testify should be jailed the day after.
27
Without distraction, the House should continue with the impeachment investigation, always within the parameters of the law. As for “courtesies “ that are suggested be extended to Trump, NO! By morning, the wires will probably be reporting on casualties among civilian Kurds as the result of the Trump- approved Turkish military assault of the Kurd-Syrian territory. Turkey has the second largest army in NATO. Trump is also responsible for the deaths of children in the southern border, he deserves no courtesy of any kind. Keep it serious, clear, fair and above all, follow the letter and spirit of the law. Trump is, sui generis, unique among impeached presidents in his detached criminality, corruption and disregard for the office he represents, not to mention the constitution or human life itself.
33
Trump is demanding that Pelosi ask for a vote on an official impeachment inquiry. If Pelosi wants to retain the upper hand she should jump shift Trump and his demand for an impeachment inquiry and bid a grand slam. Give him full on articles of impeachment. He is is in no way ready for this and will flounder... She already has everything she needs for a small slam and a grand slam is well within her reach..............but she must control how the cards fall. Time to start controlling the game
29
@j. g. to clarify...if pelosi bids a grand slam(impeachment and conviction) but only achieves a small slam(impeachment) history will count her as a winner. Trump will be forever defined as a loser. GO NANCY
1
Pelosi has no power. "trump" knows it.
It's too late.
The decision for the American people is: are we done? Are we over? Are we willing to fight now to save the republic? I mean literally fight. It's past the designs of separations of powers. We will need to take it back or submit to his tyranny. So what's it gonna be? Look your kids in the eye and answer what's in your heart.
8
No.
No to any gratuitous procedural protections for Trump.
No to giving House Republicans any input bar the bare minimums required by the Constitution, Federal law, and House rules.
No to anything that weakens the House in its impeachment investigation.
No to handing likely traitors an escape.
76
You have robbed a bank. The police suspect you but they have no definite proof.
They interview some of your family, friends, and associates.
Do they need a warrant to ask these questions? Do they need to clear these questions with your lawyer?
Members of the House of Representatives suspect the President of misfeasance, malfeasance, and other misdeeds. Do they have to clear all these questions with the President before asking them?
As so many so-called conservatives say, if you have nothing to hide, what are you afraid of?
27
What a disappointing call for unilateral disarmament to serve the intransigent interests of the most corrupt administration in our history. The White House letter arrogantly challenged the very legitimacy and even the constitutionality of the impeachment process. Would Mitch McConnell and the Senate provide similar accommodation to the interests of Democrats during the impeachment trial? Has Bill Barr shown any interest in fairness or the rule of law? Of course not.
The Constitution gives the power of impeachment solely to the House. Let’s stop the hand-wringing and get on with the investigation.
74
Hoe come the internal revenue service has not charged Biden an examination of his returns show that nowhere has he declared the $160.000 a month being paid to his bagman son.
2
@peter Your connection to conspiracy theory central is broken.
1
45th KO'd by 25th by 15th
- or -
525,600 seconds
5
One-way fairness is weakness.
7
If we learned anything from the Mueller episode, it should be that having all the finely reasoned legal arguments on your side in the impeachment scrum isn't enough to move the ball forward. Impeachment is politics -- and political strategy -- from beginning to end. High-minded moralizing on the basis of legal arcana may dazzle in Beltway seminars but falls flat in the neighborhood tavern.
So it ultimately doesn't matter that Cipollone's letter stonewalling the investigation is full of legal hogwash if it plays well on Main Street. Team Trump is making an appeal to basic notions of fairness, that an accused is entitled to see the evidence against him and to cross examination of hostile witnesses. If Trump can make that fairness argument stick with his political base and a few of the uncommitted, that should be good enough to keep Congressional Republicans in line. That political outcome is all he cares about.
If the Democrats were smart, they would consider offering Trump a package deal rationalized by the public interest in completing the process expeditiously:
Mr. Trump, we will pass a House bill authorizing the investigation, give you any documents we have, and allow your witnesses to be represented by counsel. But first, in exchange, by a date certain you will commit to allowing the witnesses we requested to testify and provide us the documents subpoenaed.
If Trump agrees, the process moves forward swiftly. If, as expected, he balks, his bluff is publicly exposed.
7
@woofer Since when has Trump kept a promise?
1
@abigail49
"Commit first" means at least that Congress gets its documents before anything else happens.
To quote Hillary Clinton “what difference does it make?” There is nothing Pelosi can do that will placate Trump or his House allies, so why bother? Trump was caught shaking down a foreign leader to weaken a political opponent, which by the way has happened. This is the very definition of an impeachable offense. He has also announced that he is above the law and therefore has the absolute right to obstruct justice. Strikes two and three. The next House vote should be to impeach. There is no much left to inquire about.
32
@Jose Pieste It will be split upon partisan lines because the Republicans think it's OK to shake down a foreign leader for political gain, and the Democrats don't. At least, the Republicans are acting as if they think it's OK; not too many of them can bring themselves to actually say it outright. It's hilarious watching them dodge the question and refuse to answer.
The Republican party has lost all credibility.
4
Fairness?
It is the height of naiveté to believe that 45 will accede to anything the House grants him as 'fair'. He already thinks it unfair that anyone thinks he did anything wrong!
He will always, always come up with reasons to obfuscate, distract, deny and obstruct.
It may take marching in the streets to remove him, despite his losing the next election.
I for one have my marching shoes ready.
88
@Irmalinda Belle
hoping that marching would help is perhaps the height of naivete (Trump fund raises off of marches)'. this is going much darker than that if the Dems to not seize the reigns.
Could this editorial have contradicted itself more? There is no need for fairness or due process in an impeachment inquiry. And it’s not like the testimonies the house committees are collecting isn’t subject to questioning from both sides.
Pelosi should a new precedent if need be.
11
@Andrew: The US Government is a special kind of corporation with coercive powers. The Congress is its board of directors, and the president is its CEO. The Congress, with concurrence of the Senate, may fire an insubordinate president at will.
6
@Steve Bolger
That is our Nations conundrum, run like a business where a CEO could be in charge for 30 years or respect our Constitution and understand it is there to help Capital and Protections from Unfair Business Practices. The two are most definitely Mutually Exclusive. Our Constitution did its best to address the dynamics that it would create. We are Americans and we know what is right because of the documents that were adopted by our Founding Fathers. We can debate all we want about our current behaviours but we know the intent and the courage set out when setting up this Republic. It was for always moving further and further in a fairness of Game. Referees , Umpires are in Sports for a Reason, so many levels and edges in this Conversation. I do know Trump is not right. He wasn't raised right nor was he taught how to share. Empathy be damned.
How many divisions does the speaker of the house have? This is starting to get scary, and to the point where where the military decides who’s going to take office in January 2021.
9
At the moment of an impeachment storm Trump finds a way to escalate a foreign war that might otherwise have been winding down, needlessly sacrificing the lives of thousands of former allies to make this distracting new conflict happen. As the whole world spirals out of control thanks to his well-timed push, it will be no surprise when he finds that only his incomparable wisdom can save us from the results, and declares himself president in perpetuity, an action as constitutional and lawful as everything else he does.
38
So, according to the DOJ counsel's memo, a president cannot be indicted, being subject only to impeachment. According to Trump's counsel's letter, Trump cannot be impeached because impeachment is unconstitutional, unfair and partisan.
A neat trick, yes, but the finale is the best of all: It's late 2020 and Trump's defeat is ineffective because the election was rigged and not valid, and therefore he cannot vacate the office voluntarily until fair elections can be scheduled -- and he has mobilized forces to prevent succession. You think that's crazy? Watch this space.
52
From the moment this individual and his henchmen gained power, my deepest fear has been that they would find an excuse to impose martial law and seize complete dictatorial powers. With every day of stonewalling with impunity, my nightmares appear to be more plausible.
1
@Tim C His followers are crazy, and have almost all the privately held firearms in the country. It’s a scary thought, because one side is completely disarmed and against guns and the other has shown itself more than capable of violence when it can’t win at the ballot box.
Impeachment is a political rather than a criminal or legal proceeding with no clear-cut rules provided in the Constitution. Since we have arrived at the constitutional crisis we have been dreading, it is best for the House to proceed in the most logical and rational manner, especially because Trump believes Congress has no constitutional right to oversee the executive branch. The House must first pass a formal resolution to authorize an inquiry which Trump will ignore.
The only recourse left to Congress is to take the case to the Supreme Court, a court that once ordered Nixon to turn over the tapes after he refused to comply with a federal court subpoena.
We can only hope that the present politicized court will honor the rule of law and precedent over loyalty to a man who desecrates and degrades the US Constitution.
Trump will never back down. It will be incumbent on the judicial branch to put a stop to the war between Congress and Trump.
We have been building to this point since Trump announced his candidacy. I have to believe we will withstand this constitutional crisis. Congress must be fastidious and meticulous in its approach as a precedent is being set by a president who believes he is not accountable. We are at a dangerous crossroads and the House must function as a unit whose goal is to assert its constitutional right to oversee the executive branch, especially one determined to defy the rule of law.
20
@Patricia Caiozzo
The same SCOTUS that gave an election to Bush?
3
@Patricia Caiozzo
Yep, I’m nervous about it but I think you’re calling it right. They will never comply without a Supreme Court ruling to make them. Trump is arrogant enough to think getting the Supreme Court involved will be favorable to him, but I don’t think it will be. But what happens if the court gets involved and they still don’t comply? These GOP enablers will surely back down then, won’t they? I can’t believe everyone in America isn’t as freaked out about this as I am!
2
@Kally
I believe there are many of us who are frightened about this unprecedented test of our democracy and our Constitution. My hope is that Roberts respects historical precedent and becomes the swing vote in favor of respect of rule of law over party loyalty.
This is what I have dreaded and I have to believe our democracy can withstand the tyranny of an inept and dangerous president, but I am very worried.
1
Mr. Trump's waffling today when asked if he'd cooperate with an impeachment inquiry if a vote were held makes it plain he will indeed move the goal posts. He insisted the rules had to be "fair," and we already know that he - ever casting himself as the victim - will appoint himself sole arbiter of what constitutes fair.
Yes, the House needs to be rigorous, but let's not hold our breath that Trump will comply. He's shown us who he is - over and over. And cooperation is not in his repertoire.
39
I disagree with the expressed need for fairness : since when have Republicans in control of either house played fair ? If Democrats give an inch, the Republicans will take a mile. The Republicans eliminated subpoena powers for the minority when they had the House. Why should they have that power now ? No, House Democrats should only abide by the Constitution and House rules. What's good for the goose is good for the gander - that's fairness.
210
@Gioia Tauro fairness? What is that? Rules? The game in play values neither rules nor fairness. Democrats need to start playing the game in play.. and stop wishing for the game they hope to play
9
See the NYTs points. There are two sides of the argument and despite all of our legal cautions and caveats - we as observers and citizens know darn well Trump has broken laws and demolished age-old traditions of the legal, constitutional checks and balances powers of each branch of government. In this case we have to exclude Barr from any discussion at all as he has violated his oath of office. So where does that leave us? - Well, I have every faith that there is a wealth of legal talent available both inside and outside of government - working with the constitution and current laws and regs that Democrats can get what they need to to exercise their oversight to collect documents and testimony to make their case. If polls are any indication of how people feel here - most want impeachment and removal from office. Imagine what will happen when a whole lot more data, information is unearthed. The Democrats have enough now to impeach and they really should listen to Speaker Pelosi and the various House committee chairs who are organizing the case(s) against Trump. It really would be a Profile in Courage - just like Speaker Pelosi.
19
Everything in this editorial makes sense to me. But of course the GOP don’t care whether or not it makes sense. We must allow the House to make an inquiry regarding impeachment.
9
Republicans are the ones who changed the rules to allow the speaker of the house to initiate an impeachment inquiry without a house vote. Now they are complaining about the rules they created - didn't they realize that the rules apply no matter who are in power?
Due process for everybody else is that the investigation (inquiry) collects evidence of what happened and decide if any specific person should be charged for their actions. Only after that process is done will the material be handed over to the defense. At trial the defense has the right to all kinds of things. To suggest that the defense lawyers should have a right to participate in the grand jury process is absurd. There should be no special treatment for Trump compared to any other suspects.
111
@MidtownATL I disagree. It is reasonable to ask for a vote in the House, as was done w Clinton and Nixon, rather than start the impeachment from Chairs of committees. Not only is impeachment a serious political and national event, it is not something that belongs to a committee chair. What are the Dems afraid of? Hold the vote in the House! The Speaker only represents the majority party. There is no reason not to make this legitimate by holding a vote of the House. Not holding a House wide vote is anti-democratic, even if it is ‘Democrat’ led.
3
@aldebaran except that committee chairs now have subpoena authority they lacked previously without a full house vote. The R's changed those rules. I suggest they live with them.
18
Let it be known that every official, every lawyer, every functionary, associate or appointee that aids Trump in the commission and concealing of a crime, or obstructing any investigation thereof undertaken by any lawful authority - will in due course be held responsible in the eyes of the law.
Not more.
Not less.
47
the supreme court will be forced to step in and given precedent of previous required vote and require unbiased subpoena powers. That will be limit the the supreme actions on this matter. the supreme court has had to set rules before on matters of government procedures to prevent political bias.
The court as they say set limits both the executive and legislatures power and other over reach.
2
It seems that nobody has figured out how to deal with Trump. The Supreme Court, while theoretically a brake on his outlandish behavior, is more likely than not to protect him. Don’t count on them to come to the rescue. The only thing is to vote him out of office, although even that will not stop him.
5
@plainleaf The Supreme Court has nothing to do with the Congresses authority to follow their own rules and procedures to Impeach the President. According to the constitution it is the Congress who ¨Shall follow it´s own procedures and rules to impeach an official of the Federal Government.¨ Congress is a co-equal branch of Government. Congress can invoke fines of up to $25,000 per day and put individuals in jail who are obstructing it´s inquiry.
4
@plainleaf rule of law must be upheld—even people accused get to have due process. Committee investigations and testimony in the House are often shambolic (as we have seen multiple times), an exercise in stifling the witness, who has to just sit there and be insulted and be asked stupid gotcha questions.
Any impeachment initiative can be described as an attempt to overturn the last election. If one adheres to that logic, no impeachment is justified, regardless of the actions of the executive. But they wrote it into the constitution anyway. And it looks like they wanted the branch of government closest to the people to start it off and gave them wide latitude to do so.
32
@Doug, forget 2016. Trump won. Focus on his attempt to corrupt election 2020. He has confessed to it in writing. That is why he should be removed from office.
33
When many suggested Pelosi needed to move on and a fresh new speaker would be best, I thought about how tough she has been. As my representative, I've always been amazed at her tough skin, Her own family says it themselves, don't mess with her determination, So no, she's the right woman for the time. Yeah, the GOP will call her all kinds of names (tough old broad comes to mind) but that won't change her or history,
She won't give up this fight and Trump better be ready to recognize he has probably met his match,
209
@Ira Cohen - Stormy McDaniel or unspecified Russian sex workers were Trump's match. He is totally outclassed by Ms. Pelosi.
3
@Ira Cohen He hasn’t met his match...he’s met his ‘better’.
3
Trump and his lawyers work under the “whataboutism” method by questioning everything, all the time, to delay and hopefully halt the wheels of justice. Congress, a co-equal branch of government, would do best to act as a co-equal branch of government. Congress must focus on the specific issues and not about any person.
23
The president must be held in check. He has demonstrated contempt for the power of the Congress and for the separation of powers. There is no longer any option.
65
I'm just not quite sure what needs to be investigated. The defendant has already confessed!
86
@Rob That "confession" is likely a smokescreen for much worse. Why else would he offer up such incriminating documentary evidence so early in the game? The call notes (not the complete conversation) he volunteered are only about Ukraine. Given his close relationship with Vladimir Putin and Russia's occupation and designs on Ukraine, it is not too much of a stretch to assume there's a Russia story behind the smokescreen.
9
PELOSI IS GIVING TRUMP THE ROPE TO HANG HIMSELF
She is just buying time, as Trump shows an active willingness to do himself in without any outside help.
A Fox (!) poll just showed 51% of interviewed registered voters support Trump's impeachment and removal from office.
Give Trump a little more time to alienate Republicans, as by his throwing allied Kurds under the bus, and he will complete the job with minimal effort by Pelosi.
226
@Randallbird I absolutely agree. He will do himself in with little interference.
5
Does anyone else see the contradictions in this final paragraph:
"The bottom line is that Democrats need to honor basic fairness ... They are engaged in an asymmetrical struggle with a White House that has shown itself willing to set fire to the Constitution to protect Mr. Trump from the consequences of his own misbehavior."
Basic fairness is what Democrats have been doing for 20 years. Republicans and Trump are counting on this.
171
In a comic book battle, the evil villain always seems to have a new weapon to replace one that is destroyed or lost. The heroes must play by their wits.
No matter how many weapons the trump team loses, they believe there will be a new weapon at hand. They have the rich imaginations to continue.
The heroes must keep believing that good will defeat evil in the final match.
My money is on Pelosi and Schiff.
129
If Trump/GOP/DOJ chooses to object on the basis of some procedural niceties, beyond what is legally required (i.e. nothing), then to avoid endless litigation there must be a quid pro quo, so to speak, for a formal House resolution authorizing an impeachment inquiry: to wit, a clear waiver, signed by Trump, of all procedural challenges, based on privilege or otherwise (except others’ personal 5th Amendment privilege) to the House’s demands (whether by subpoena or otherwise) for testimony or records from any person or entity.
I suspect Trump would prefer endless litigation, as would anyone with a Supreme Court that leans toward him.
13
The bottom line is that Democrats need to honor basic fairness and conduct a thorough inquiry with mutual rights as was given to Nixon and Clinton in the past. As American's this is what we need and demand. Drop the DEM Or REP label and let's proceed. If not we do a grave disservice to future generations. This is the time that leaders step forward.....not partisan politicians. The world is watching.
8
@Just 4 Play Perhaps the Trump Administration can also provide a path to mutual rights? So far, none have been apparent. Stonewalling is not a sign of mutual respect or respect for the law.
Please put that in your pipe and smoke it!
6
What the house needs to do is to issue the subpoenas and to start punishing those who do not comply. No more of this "requesting" testimony: we know such will be ignored. Arrest those who violate the subpoena and lock them in a Congressional cupboard if necessary until they testify - fully.
290
@Gerard the house has to refer punishment to DOJ
and then courts to enforce subpoenas. The person subpoena can go to court and have it quashed. Congress might have someone show up and just say "i do not recall"
3
@plainleaf
The House has inherent power to punish contempt of Congress without the courts or the DoJ.
13