No need to choose. What a great idea for a trip to France--Lyon and Marseille (though I suspect the majority of my heart would be left in Marseille!)
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Re security in Marseille. On a sunny weekend morning we set out from the Vieux Port on foot and were about half an hour into Le Panier when I realized I had left my backpack full of professional camera gear behind on a public bench. A mad, hopeless rush back, and voila, it was right where I had left it, untouched. I'm always vigilant, if a bit absentminded, and it made my day to have something like this end well for a change.
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My husband and I visited Marseilles in 2018. We were rescued our first night there by the owner of Nour. Wandering around looking for a restaurant late in the evening, my high school french failed and we were unable to get directions to the address. Agnes came along and helped us out. We didn't make it to the restaurant we were looking for that night. Instead we accepted her invitation to try out here nearby restaurant. We had a wonderful meal and returned for Sunday brunch before we left. Thanks for the reminder of a lovely trip and experience.
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My French slang may be out of date, but the last I heard (while living outside Paris), the word "bouchon" referred to a traffic jam, not a small restaurant the way Modak seems to have used it in his column in today's NYTimes. (Is that a south of France usage?)
@Paula Eisenstein Baker , according to wikipedia, a bouchon is a type of restaurant found in Lyon, that serves traditional Lyonnaise cuisine, such as sausages, “salade lyonnnaise”, duck pâté or roast pork. The specialty is “Quenelles de Brochet” (pike quenelles) with Nantua Sauce. Like you, my first thought was “that’s not what my french dictionary says”, but good old wikipedia set me straight.
And you’re right, everywhere else in France a bouchon is either a stopper for a wine bottle or a traffic jam.
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@Paula Eisenstein Baker : " According to the dictionary Le petit Robert, this name derives from the 16th century expression for a bunch of twisted straw. A representation of such bundles began to appear on signs to designate the restaurants and, by metonymy, the restaurants themselves became known as bouchons. The more common use of "bouchons" as a stopper or cork at the mouth of a bottle, and its derivatives, have the same etymology. "
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My partner and I regularly visit Lyon.
Do your research first. Plenty of great restaurants. We ate at Bouchon Tupin last Saturday lunch. Excellent. Croix Rousse is always a favourite neighbourhood. The Halles de Paul Bocuse is worth a visit.
We always get a three day pass for the public transport.
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That certain type of tourist just sounds insecure. It's the same type of tourist that prefers a fast food outlet so as to avoid the waiter at table service and stays in an Airbnb so they don't have to face a receptionist.
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Thank you NYT for opening up the comment section. When I’ve gotten Sebastian’s column on Saturday mornings the comment section was already closed. I look forward to his travel experiences. His writing about Marseille reminded me of the short time I lived in Naples. As one writer put it, “it’s in your face,” so be prepared for it. I’m sure I would find Marseille an unforgettable city just as I did Naples. I was hoping he would give a “shout out” to the famous Chateau d’if a short distance across the waters. Not all readers of The Count of Monte Cristo (me being one) knew this fortress actually existed. But, I’ll forgive you Sebastian, yours is a travel column not a readers blog.
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Doesn't seem like much of a tough decision at all, according to the author... having spent time in both, its like choosing between Boston and Buffalo
"Lyon, a major destination for lovers of arts and culture, during which I barely stepped foot in a major museum..... Lyon looks like the history picture books I’d pore over as a child. The city’s greatest appeal is its beauty, as if its founders knew that they struck gold with its location"
or
"Marseille isn’t pretty like Lyon or Paris,” Mr. Thomazeau said. “But because it’s not pretty, there’s a certain type of tourist who loves it.”avoid walking at night. While some of that is informed by statistics — there are neighborhoods in Marseille, like in any major city, that are best avoided if you don’t know where you’re going"
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Dear visitors to France, please do not patronize Airbnb or other similar businesses.
These parasites are ruining our neighborhoods and replacing our neighbors with transient tourist populations who have no connection to our community. They are the direct cause of increased rents and the displacement of families who need a place to live close to their work. There is nothing romantic about it and you are not "living as a native" when you stay in one of these places. You are contributing to a menace.
There are plenty of reasonably priced hotels, real bed and breakfasts and gîtes d'étape available in France. Please use them.
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@CL
The solution to what you deem a menace is local regulation, not asking tourists to stay elsewhere.
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@KT Marseilles should indeed regulate Airbnb, as should every other city taking a dim view tax fraud and violating zoning and business regulations.
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@CL , totally agree. AirBnB is ruining New Orleans now and causing the same sort of problems. This past August, the Nola City Council voted 7-0 to heavily restrict AirBnB and other short term rentals throughout the city.
80% of airbnb listings in Japan have been purged and they have been completely banned in Palma Mallorca. Every other community should do the same.
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Bresse chicken, served in manyLyon locations, is considered the best in France.
The archaeology museum in Lyon is not to be missed.
The city is just south of Burgundy and just north of the Hermitage wine district, so those are easy one day outings.
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We just returned from France last Sunday. We visited Lyon, Aix-en-Provence, Hyeres, Nimes, and Toulouse. Nimes was a standout destination. It is super clean, safe, and has a scenic and walkable old town. It has a wonderful Roman Temple and the best preserved Roman Coliseum anywhere. Best of all, there were few other American tourists.
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@Les Bois
Thanks for the recs, Nimes sounds like a great destination.
I grew up in an Asian port city, in a district full of warehouses. When I visited Marseille it reminded me of my hometown. Unfortunately, when we went to Notre Dame de La Garde to see the views at sunset from the top of the hill, we were robbed by two Maghrebis who had scouted us on their scooter as we drove up the hill in our rental van. I was taking pictures and the robbers grabbed my wife’s handbag. She was sitting inside a parked car, unlocked. We lost a whole day trying to replace our passports and visas across two consulate generals. We had to find an open police station at 9pm. However we ended up having a funny conversation with the tall and bald policeman with a curly mustache. And while borrowing the hotel computer to dig up copies of our old passports I had store online, I had a long conversation about political Islam with an Egyptian young man who was studying economics while working the night shift as a receptionist at the small hotel we were staying at.
Just take precautions. Always lock your car even if you’re parked. Carry your handbag or backpack in front of you in public areas. And never leave your luggage out of your sight on trains. I saw a Hongkong tourist being befriended by a guy, and went to nap while his “friend” took his luggage and got off at the next station. I still remember his panicked face as he woke up and yelled: “That guy took my luggage and my passport!”
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@Wesley Go , so why didn’t you try to stop the guy from stealing the luggage? You could have yelled and screamed at least!
You have to watch out for thieves everywhere. I had friends whose passports were stolen in Nice and they had to extend their vacation a week to go to Marseille for the replacements. Their passports were stolen in the Nice train station. I always leave mine locked up in the hotel safe.
Fwiw, I have always thought of Marseille as the New Orleans of France. My french friends who are familiar with New Orleans agree. A beautiful, old, charming port city with a distinctly unsavory side that requires vigilance and some knowledge of the bad neighborhoods to avoid trouble.
All tourists need to avoid looking like tourists, keep your car doors locked, wear a cross-body purse, bag in the front of you, and not just BE but APPEAR aware of your surroundings at all times. Distracted tourists absorbed in the view and their cameras are easy targets.
That said, I’m glad you guys weren’t hurt, and you had some cool exchanges with other locals in the process.
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Thanks for making me want to go back to Lyon, and see some things I missed 15 years ago!
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love your writing !! pls keep
traveling and writing for
the NYT !!
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@A Eaton , agreed. This guy is much much better than the woman they had do this last year. They should just keep this guy and not bother looking for anyone else.
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@Ann --that is a terrible idea. Different travelers, different perspectives. This series has a very large audience.
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Having lived in Marseille 2010-2012, I fell in love with it for all the reasons mentioned here. It’s a dirty city and doesn’t pretend to be something it’s not. The people are tough on the outside yet kind and funny on the inside. I prefer to keep it to myself and don’t mind wren typical “I want a perfect-Instagram” American tourists say they don’t like it.
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I'm not as thrilled with Mr. Modak's reporting as other respondents, though it's not entirely his fault. Unlike him I'm not a foodie, and indeed, his approving reference to meat that"drips with fat" made me want to gag, not eat. But I also gag at the tired, over-used cliches he seems fond of, like "surf and turf " (from another article).
But I was gratified to see, if only briefly, that he is able to grasp why people like me travel -- his reference to Marseille as a place where "tourists aren't the focus "; a city where you "feel like you're somewhere with its own sense of purpose." Exactly what I travel for! My number one criterion in choosing a destination. As long as Mr. Modak remains sensitive to this quality, I suppose I can tolerate the food and the cliches.
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@Larry Fish I'm surprised to read your negative comment about Sebastian's writing and I couldn't disagree more. I find him one of the very best I have ever come across, and that after a lifetime of solo travel and reading travelogues. The Times has lucked out with Sebastian in my view. But I suppose someone who's "not a foodie" (note the cliche) might well have a sour attitude to someone who takes joy in eating and discovering new things.
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@Liz Technically, "foodie" is slang, not cliché.
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@Larry Fish Yes--I am particularly upset at his recommending veal--which in France is still produced in cruel conditions--calves crated in the dark for the entire wretched too short lives. Shame on you for recommending veal, Mr. Modak.
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I'm not quite as thrilled with Mr. Modak's reporting as most other respondents seem to be, but it's not all his fault--I'm not a foodie, and indeed his approving reference to "meat dripping with fat" made me want to gag, not eat. But, his fondness for tired, over-used cliches like "surf and turf" (from another article) also make me gag at times.
But I was gratified to see, at least in one paragraph, that he is able to grasp why people like me travel--it is where he observes that Marseille is a city where "tourists are not the focus "; where you can "feel like you're somewhere with its own sense of purpose." Exactly what I travel for! My number one criterion in selecting a destination. As long as Mr. Modak remains sensitive to that quality, I suppose I can put up with the food and the cliches.
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I just left Lyon, my first time visiting the city, and the Museum of Cinema and Miniatures was a favorite find. Also, the food!
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Loved this piece! You have brought back many recollections of my trip to Marseille when I lived in Europe two years ago. It is such a beautiful city, not too touristy either. The tourist that are there are other French nationals from Paris, per se, there to enjoy some beach scenery. You have no choice but to become immersed in the culture, as it’s very seldom to find someone that speaks English. I actually fell in love with an ice cream stand woman while I was there, haha. Great article, thanks.
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Mr. Modak, you have captured the beauty of these two wonderful cities! Glad to read excellent travel reporting that is about the travels and the places visited, not so much about the author. You mentioned a number of places I have not visited or experienced in both Marseille and Lyon, thanks for the suggestions, I will be sure to check them out next time. Safe and happy travels!
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A few years ago, after attending a conference in Lyon, I lingered three more days in the city. Each morning I struck out on foot in a different direction within the old quarter. You can visit the Baroque, the medieval, the Roman, just by changing your compass heading. I'd walk until noon, have a hearty lunch in outstanding restaurants, and return by 4pm where my hotel would have a bourbon (hey, I'm from "the Ville" after all) waiting for me. Wonderful memories of a beautiful city.
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A river cruise up the Rhone from Arles and Avignon to Lyon had been on my wish list for years. But our experience with bouchon cuisine at highly-rated Cafe Comptoir Abel in September, 2017, made me long for the food and service we have experienced many dozens of times in Paris. My mother was an interested but terrible cook of Canadian heritage who served us kidney stew as an occasional treat, so when I saw that on the menu, I had to find out what what that dish should really have tasted like when done well. My mother's was better. Our fellow travelers were similarly disappointed with their dishes, and we avoided the vaunted bouchon cuisine for the rest of our three-day stay. Staff treated French customers much better than us, too, in spite of our best efforts in French and upbeat, respectful attitudes sometimes lacking among American visitors to France. But we did love Lyon -- especially the delightful Musee des Confluences.
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We spent 2 days in Lyon last month and wish we had stayed 5. The museums the writer skipped are excellent. Remarkably, we encountered almost no English speaking tourists, which added to the atmosphere.
Lyon City greeters offers free (not even tipping allowed) individual tours tailored to your interests--our guide was terrific.
Those who do not like tripe, etc, will still find excellent restaurants.
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I did the same Lyon/Marseille trip last year and fell in love with Marseille as well. I can't wait to get back there.
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My wife and I moved to Lyon a couple of years ago after spending nearly 3 years looking for our next home. Lyon is all the things in this article and more - bu I highly recommend that you visit Marseilles! or Paris, or Nimes, or Bordeaux!
We want Lyon to stay off the beaten tourist track!
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Having spent 30 years in Lyon and 30 years in Marseilles, I know both cities fairly well....
Lyon is classical, beautiful, discrete and efficient. France's Geneve (Switzerland).
Marseilles poorly managed, remains behind in every domain. France's Naples (Italy).
To me, none of them even exists when compared with Paris....
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@Jean Roudier To compare to those who have never been to France,
Paris is NY, cosmopolitan, the capital of Industry, Fashion, culture, artsightseeing etc.
Lyon is Boston, smaller in scale than Paris but full of History, Beauty, Great restaurants and Universities, a young art obsessed beautiful city.
Marseilles is Detroit, Once Glorious, now chaotic, crime ridden and aside from a few highlights better left unseen. There is a reason why to tourists avoid it.
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There are far more beautiful and interesting places to visit in France than the graffiti and crime-laced Marseille.
Marseille has always been a diverse, immigrant trade and port city with Greek, Roman, Middle Eastern and French roots. It is mostly known now for seafood and pastis.
Languedoc, Aix-de Provence, Nice, Carcasonne--so many beautiful places to visit in the region. Marseille would be my last recommendation; other than enjoy a nice meal on your way some where else. Sorry.
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@Hope
Or maybe Marseille can sustain more tourism and the beautiful places somewhat less. More Naples, less Venice.
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@Hope I agree!! Marseille is a cesspool. I would add to your fine list of great visits, Avignon, Nimes, Arles and Bordeax
Very interesting article. If you like a chaotic city, though, I'd recommend Naples - absolutely fascinating!
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Having been to both I would in a heartbeat choose Lyon. Your article was very good at describing the city. It is a JOY.
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My biased response is that you were so hypnotized by the beauty of Vieux Lyon that you missed some neighborhoods that would give Marseille a run for its money. Marseille has Le Panier, but Lyon has the Guillotière: one great Vietnamese restaurant after another, a whole cluster of African restaurants (mainly Guinean and Senegalese) and night clubs, and fun neighborhood night spots where you can sit outside and hear local music. Oh yes, and there's even an eco-friendly youth hostel right in the middle of it all. Add to that the fact that there are more very good local bakeries and cheese shops in any single neighborhood in Lyon than there are in all of Marseille, and you have a pretty traveler-friendly destination. Oh and by the way, you can get a fantastic bowl of bouillabaisse at Les Halles Paul Bocuse in Lyon for a lot less than $70. Take that, Marseille!
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Just got back from France, and went to Lyon. Couldn't wait to leave. Went there for the "food reputation," and didn't seem to get anything to write home about.
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@JJA I visit Lyon occasionally and would say that if you don't know where to go, it can be baffling why it has such a gastronomic reputation. You might try consulting a Michelin guide on your next trip.
Tripadvisor is unfortunately filled with either fakes, or reviews of restaurants right off the main tourist spots. Look at the reviews of restaurants in Versailles for proof of this. The number 1 restaurant is 100m from the palace and the 2nd a Greek delicatessen.
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Lyon is an absolute joy. The food. The wine. The people. It’s too bad you weren’t able to experience it. It, like so many places in France, only gets better with subsequent visits.
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@JJA , when we were in Lyon awhile back, it happened to be a day when Les Halles de Lyon Paul Bocuse was mostly closed, save for a few tiny bistros. One of them was Chez les Gones, and that’s where we ate. Oh my, was it wonderful. The meat! The sauce! The potatoes! The wine! All absolutely to die for.
There were only two tables with customers that day. Ours and another with some businessmen taking a late lunch. The owner and his staff took care of us like we were special guests in his kitchen at home. He helped us with the menu and suggested the wine. He even treated us to a glass each of a special dessert wine. I don’t think we paid even 50 euro for the two of us, all included.
I’m sorry you spent time in Lyon and missed the experience. Maybe you should go back and start over.
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Um... Love Rennes. ;-)
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Love your tortured definition of "quenelle de brochet," but wouldn't it be easier to say warm "gefilte fish"?
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