Impeach, indict and imprison the traitor Trump. Further , seek out and punish those GOP Senators who are willing to betray us by supporting this Russian asset.
5
Sadly we've seen this 'movie' before. Erdogan with superior weapons purchased from America will decimate the Syrian Kurds forcing hundreds of thousand of people to flee the region. After much hand-wringing by world leaders, eventually the United Nations will intervene and call for a 'cease fire'. Turkey will comply once they know they have largely achieved their mission of removing if not exterminating the Syrian Kurds from the so called 'buffer area'. At the end, the Kurds will have been largely wiped out and another avoidable human tragedy will be added to the history books. Donald Trump who green-lighted this tragedy will of course blame, Obama, Hillary Clinton and the Socialist Democrats. The world however will know the truth as Trump's blue suit and white shirt will forever be stained with the blood of the thousands of Kurds who will perish.
6
Turkey shows no fear of Trump’s public threats, which are doubtless quite different from his private conversations with Erdogan. He has been invited for a meeting at the White House next month as Trump’s “guest” and praised as a “great trading partner.” Who coincidentally has facilitated hotel deals with Trump.
Turkish troops have begun their offensive against America’s main allies in the region, the Kurds. This accomplishes two goals: to crush the Kurds, whom Erdogan sees as “terrorists,” and to clear the area for relocation of at least 1 million Syrian refugees he wants to expel. Turkey hosts the world’s largest refugee population of nearly 4 million, and has struggled for years to support them, with large but inadequate aid from other countries.
Trump, in his “infinite wisdom” is helping to set the scene for future conflict on the Turkish-Syrian border, weakening or destroying the main bulwark against ISIS in Syria, and benefiting Syria’s Assad, Iran – and Putin’s Russia. Not to mention betraying allies who have lost more than 10,000 lives. All in a day’s work for a stable genius.
4
I hate to go the Fox News or Rush Limbaugh way but what if ::: Donald Trump gave permission to Turkey to go ahead in Syria with the offensive against the Kurds just because it was a quid pro quo for the Turkish intelligence not to release the tapes of the Kashoggi killing because the Saudis requested Donald Trump to allow the Turkish President to ahead what he wants to do in Syria : why else will one make a unilateral decision to make things worse against the advice of many ?
23
The Kurds are fighting for an independent KURDISTAN and they have fought Saddam, they have fought the Ayatollahs of Iran, they have fought Syrias Assad, they have fought ISIS side by side with the USA and they will fight Erdo's Turkey. Fighting is what they have done all their lives and I am confident they fight the Turks bravely and with full force. Officially they may not receive support from the American defense forces but unofficially and covertly they will recieve support. Like the Afghans, KURDS are brave fighter. The Afghans brought Alexander the great to his knees and then brought the British to their knees and later brought the mighty Soviet to their knees and are now seeking peace with dignity with the USA. Hopefully the Kurds will prevail even after the withdrawal of all US troops and the safe return of US troops. Thanks to Trump the US has done enough and does not need to be persistent and prolonged policemen of the world. The Turks will be taught a lesson that they will never forget. This will unite KURDS from Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey and finally enable the realization of thei dream of an independent KURDISTAN. This your time and this is a moment in history that will realize your dreams. Bring the young Turks to their knees not in prayer but in surrender. Trump is not playing God and even if he was he would be helping the Kurds to help themselves. If Turks commit any human rights violation or crimes against humanity they should be expelled from NATO and UN.
15
@Girish Kotwal
Turkey's expulsion from NATO and further rifts in the UN are part of Putin's plan, it drives them and the most powerful military in Europe, on the border with the Middle East, further into his embrace.
Don't you see Russia and Syria are pressuring the Kurds from the south as Turkey presses down from the north?
And Kurds in Iran, if they rise up don't you think it bolsters Iran cracking down on them if they see the U.S. backing off to let Turkey, Russia and Syria do this as well?
We WERE helping the Kurds to help themselves, by helping them defeat the ISIS Caliphate and leaving a small force there as both continued intel and targeting against ISIS and as a statement that we have the Kurds' backs. We had no significant casualties. This was no hot-button issue politically.
Trump just sent troops into Saudi Arabia, and for what? A $90,000 drone attack on the state-owned oil infrastructure.
Trump is in love with money. The last couple years tacked on to the Obama recovery from Bush's Great Recession have been the longest period of economic expansion in our history. It's not like the U.S. is in desperate need. But Trump has always been personally ravenous for money and constant reinforcement of peer approval, and Trump sees his peers as dictators rather than democratic leaders or the American people.
8
@Girish Kotwal Frankly, they should be expelled from the UN, along with Russia and China.
@Girish Kotwal the Syrian Kurds of the YPG, associated with the PYD party, don't fight for any independence contrarily to the Iraqi Barzani/KDP ones. They actual oppose the Barzani/KDP political branch in Syria.
So instead of copy/pasting counter-truths you should rather get a clue about their actual aspirations... Start over their wikipedia entry...
Turkey was pretending to be the upholder of Muslim rights at the UN recently, and now they are being brutal to Kurds. Hypocrites.
16
Trump is going against the military and diplomatic advisers to abandon allies. He's invited Erdogan to the White House and is assisting him in ethnic cleansing. The interests of the American people are not what he has as his primary focus.
34
How utterly sad for Trump to be abandoning our staunchest allies. What a thoughtless, heartless president is he to be ostensibly allowing our close allies and collaborators, who have shed gallons of blood in the fight against ISIS, to be massacred by Erdogan's blood-thirsty Turks. Who will be next? The Israelis? How can anyone trust such a president and by extension the US?
57
Treaties, agreements, alliances, mutual defense pacts, with the USA are without worth or value.
8
Trump has a known habit of stiffing contractors on his way out; this pretty much the same thing, only it's our country's allies and reputation he's trashing, not his own.
So much winning...
12
As always no mention that the USA and Turkey, both NATO members, have been illegally -without any UN SC mandate- occupying the sovereign territory of Syria against its government will, for years. International law must be a detail to omit for our Western so-called journalists.
3
"Promises Made, Promises Kept."
There ya go, America. Bringing the troops out of the Middle East.
So much winning.
1
When we get our government back under some kind of sane civilian control it might be worse than Cheney and Dubya- at war with the world and an economy about to tank.
Republicans simply have chosen a subset of America to support.
The Kurds were lending bravery and hope when ISIS was rampant. This is as if we had abandoned Australian fighters after WWII when they had performed heroically.
For anyone wondering why Trump is letting Turkey massacre the Kurds that were our allies, this bit of information may help you understand...
In December 2015, Trump stated in a radio interview that he had a "conflict of interest" in dealing with Turkey because of his property, saying "I have a little conflict of interest, because I have a major, major building in Istanbul ... It’s called Trump Towers. Two towers, instead of one. Not the usual one, it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well."
-"Russia, Turkey expand military operations in Syria during Trump's transition to power". LA Times. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 21 November 2016.
Trump is allowing America's allies to be butchered in order to protect his personal business interests.
12
Turkey has now invaded the Kurdish-held territory in Syria. It is heartbreaking. The Kurds are the bravest soldiers anywhere. They have done more to help American armed forces than any other group. They well-desrve our loyalty.
6
Does being under the US “nuclear umbrella” mean anything? Does anyone really believe Trump would go to war to protect Seoul, Tokyo or Berlin? Procession of nuclear weapons is the only guarantee of a country’s survival, so the spread of those dreadful weapons is inevitable.
Thanks Donald.
5
Raise your hand if you re willing to give YOUR LIFE for a free and independent Kurdistan. Higher, I still can't see them.
The tragic truth is this: if we do not remove troops and we defend the Kurds (who have internal divisions of their own) we run the risk of war with Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran and Russia. Should we go down this ruinous path and prevail, there may not be a single Kurd left alive in Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey.
Tragically, the Kurds are between a rock and hard place, and irony or irony, the same Mr. Erdogan who, int he name of Islam sent a flotilla to Gaza to help oppressed Palestinians, is now, once again placing his ethnic Turkish identity above his professed love for Islam and is preparing to slaughter his fellow Muslims simply because they are Kurdish and not Turk.
I love the Kurds and have empathy for their plight. But a conflagration in Kurdistan of regional and global powers will NOT help the Kurds.
2
@Phil Downey
Most important is Turkey supports Trump hotels, but the Kurds couldn't care less. I'd like to know the details of the conversation between Erdogan and Trump... got to wonder if it got buried in the classified server. Maybe Turkey promised to provide dirt on Biden.
8
I'm pulling for the Kurds all the way, but discretion is the better part of valor, give room for the "safe zone". Wait and see what happens. Maybe Turkey will whittle down a few of your enemies trying to keep the safe zone safe.
2
@Backwater Sage
No. Turkey wants to kill. They will kill the Kurds as they did before, many times.
It's called kill zone, not safety zone.
The American public knows next to nothing about this area.
I do.
I have spent May and June there.
The Turks want blood.
Blood.
Death.
2
Turkey is intervening to stop the creation of a terrorist state at its borders.
US has sided to ally with an organisation PKK who is officially acknowledged as a terrorist organisation by the US, as opposed to fight with Isis with the support of Turkey, the second most powerful army in Nato. PKK has caused the death of more than 60,000 people during the last 3 decades, and now with the support of US has taken over one third of Syria under some aliases such as YPG, SDF, etc. Imagine El Kaide had captured entire Mexican border.
Those terrorist do not represent the Kurds.
They forcefully abduct children to fight for their cause and kill whoever opposes their request to support them.
Turkey's intervention is not against Kurds. Turkey plans to make that area safe heaven for the 4M refugees it harbors in its borders. Among those refugees, at least 200K are Kurds that had to flee from these terrorists. Most of the refugees who are in Turkey and elsewhere have fled from these oppressive terrorists, not necessarily form the Syrian regime itself.
2
Congress needs to subpoena the transcript of Trump's call with Erdogan.
12
@Chuck Congress needs to go back to business and stay out of the tabloids.
1
@Chuck My thought exactly! This erratic, in the middle of the night, secretive, foreign policy decision-making by the executive alone leaves us open to catastrophic effects of his ignorance and self-interest.
1
Question: is it legal to contribute to the brave Kurds, and where can I do that?
4
@MFinn Imagine El Kaide had captured entire Mexican border. Turks are intervening the creation of a terrorist state at its borders. Those terrorist do not represent the Kurds.
If you support them financially, you will only contribute to a lost cause where they will do whatever means necessary to force children they abduct to be part of their so called "army". Turkey's intervention is not against Kurds. Turkey plans to make that area safe heaven for the 4M refrugees it harbors in its borders. Among those refrugees, at least 200K are Kurds that had to flee from these terrorists.
2
@MFinn Of course it is, but I do not know where in the United States. Google "support to Rojava" and you should get the necessary information. Bravo and thanks, they will need all the help they can get.
What an absolute betrayal if trust towards the brave men and women of the Kurdish forces. Donald Trump is creating a diversion from the impeachment probe but I think we have seen these tactics for a while now and unlike his Republican toadies the rest of the world can see through most of this tactics
7
Once again I draw on an analysis made by Swedish-Israeli journalist Nathan Schachar of the high-risk decision to remove US troops from one or more pockets within the Kurdish area of Syria. Schachar provides analyses in my Swedish newspaper DN that so far are unmatched by this Times article or any other as concerns certain critical elements of the situation.
DN 2019-10-09 p. A3
US troops have been stationed in small enclaves. So far only 100 or so have been moved south from the buffer zone.
Few Americans have lost their lives in Kurdish Syria, the Kurdish military has given up 10,000 lives. (Schachar observes,"Somebody had to die if ISIS was to be put down, here it was Kurds.")
"The American troops are too few to engage in any fighting themselves, but their presence has been a rare success. Their support has been essential. And neither Turkey nor any other national force will bomb an enclave where Americans are present."
If the Kurdish led militia must fight Turks in the so-called buffer zone, the Kurds can no longer maintain the al Hol prison camp with 73,000 ISIS inhabitants. Trump fantasized that the war on ISIS had been won; wrong. ISIS people are all over the place. Releasing all the imprisoned ISIS will be a step toward their revival.
Any true war by Turks against Kurds will cost countless Kurdish civilian lives. The US let Saddam Hussein kill civilian Kurds in Iraqi Kurdistan, will we never learn?
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
15
So, they will not drop their weapons and run this time, as they did in Afrin? We'll see.
2
@Ozy What a shame ! The SDF fought for weeks in Afrin, defending civilians.
I personally spoke with refugees from Afrin who lost everything , EVERYTHING.
We are used to Turkish denial : Turkey still does not admit its horrendous genocide of Armenians in 1915.
Turkey is now poised to commit a second genocide.
1
As long as we're conceding this is no longer Syria's territory to control, why not let the native Kurds transition to authority over this region with the aid of international peacekeeping forces?
Putin doesn't want the U.S. allied with the Kurds.
Putin doesn't want Turkey to have NATO protection assurances. As stealing our arms contract with Turkey showed, Russia's eager to pull its neighbors into a Soviet Union-lite.
Who orchestrated this scheme by which Trump agreed not to protect our allies the Kurds from Turkish attack, and also not to protect NATO state Turkey from Kurdish counterattack?
This diminishes the U.S. both by showing us willing to abandon an ally right after a fierce war like the one the Kurds bravely fought to end the ISIS Caliphate, as well as diminish NATO.
Who benefits? Turkey—where two "Trump Towers" stand in Istanbul—and Russia, one of Trump's largest tenants and where Trump planned a Trump Tower Moscow throughout his campaign.
This is "Charlie Wilson's War" on steroids. That abandonment of the Mujahideen—and American troops stationed in Saudi Arabia—led to the 9/11 attacks.
Oh, and Trump just sent troops into Saudi Arabia in response to a small drone attack on their pipelines.
We're on the verge of a new "Berlin Wall," something like the DMZ between the Koreas, except here it would run through Kurdish communities.
If the goal is to peacefully relocate refugees and this isn't Putin puppetry, Turkey should welcome fellow NATO allies' troops, no?
7
The Trump administration is avoiding wars in any way and in any front before the 2020 presidential election.
Turkey, Iran and other proceeds like Houthi fighters in Yemen knows that very well, and they are ready to strike and can strike any time.
But this indeed post weaknesses in the White House ability to protect its Allies, except there is a drastic change in policy, it will only get worse in coming days.
1
With all these Senate Republicans coming out against Donald Trump on this, they should come back to Washington to have a televised debate on the issue in the Capitol and vote on a resolution to not abandon our allies the Kurds.
It would be a rare opportunity for bipartisanship, a moral and ethical moment of unity where they stand up for America's values and which might inspire them to acknowledge other areas where they can find agreement.
13
This is, plainly, a wake up call for all American allies, especially in this age of American first.
Many countries, like Australia, depend on the US alliance for protection against major powers (like China). This is a reminder that alliances exist, until suddenly they don't.
As has always been said, State don't have permanent allies, only permanent interests. And sometimes domestic concerns trump (pun fully intended) even those interests.
Those of us calling for Australia to join the nuclear club start to sound a little more convincing...
Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
2
@Jeff
Except there is no domestic interest in America abandoning our allies.
As I write this, the news is discussing a White House official who acknowledged they had witnessed a criminal act by Donald Trump in his call to the president of Ukraine.
This is an aberration. If we can get through the next several months and the Republican party does a deep soul searching, we will go forward as a balanced nation more deserving than ever of the trust and respect of ourselves and the rest of the world.
3
And Australia is not alone with those thoughts. Does anyone believe that Donald Trump would go to war, to protect Seoul, Tokyo or Berlin? There is no longer a US nuclear umbrella, so the rapid spread of those weapons is inevitable.
2
@J T "The Republican party does a deep soul searching" Don't' bet your like on it.
1
I can’t even express how disturbed I am about this turn of events. The Kurds deserve our support, not abandonment. They are the ones who really put their lives on the line when others ran away from the ISIS incursion. This is utterly insane. ISIS has not been dealt a death blow. They are only contained, at least for the moment. They will resurge. The Kurds can’t fight alone on two fronts. This puts us at risk, along with all of our allies.
76
@VWalters
What is the risk to the USA? Please expand on your thesis...
None of factions have ever attacked the USA. It is the USA who goes in and sticks its nose in others business and when some US solders get killed, US folks ask why did they kill us? Well, when you go and stick your hand in fire, it is quite likely that it will get burned.
@VWalters That's ok, the area has the heroic Iraqi Army to fight the Turks--if they can be stopped from running all the way to Baghdad!
1
@ANM ... wow, how quickly and easily you can forget the images and video of ISIS beheading any Americans they could find, even volunteers at hospitals! And you say "none of those factions have ever attacked the USA." When innocent Americans are slaughtered overseas, they have attacked the USA as surely as if it were in NYC. Those images and their expression of vile hatred of everything America all over the internet is why went went in, but it was the Kurds who won the conflict for us (and are still fighting), sacrificing over 11,000 lives in the process. Turning the Turks loose on the Kurds is the most reprehensible act to be carried out by America (via Trump) since the Cherokee's Trail of Tears. The blood of the Kurds will be on the hands of all Trump supporters.
21
The world should thank them for their battle against isis...not abandon them and instead help them grow democracy.
111
Why Should Kurd Suffer Yet Again?
What Turkey has to gain by crushing the ISIS defeating Kurds in Syria other than a false hope that this will crush any hope for greater Kurdish autonomy for Turkish Kurds?
Kurds in Syria have done a great job of getting the world rid of this evil called ISIS. Is this a good way to "reward" them for their sacrifices with their precious blood of their young men and women?
103
Not to be trite, but they do seem to have a penchant for being thrown under the bus by us. I’m not sure they’ll forget about that this time around, but we do have a “leader” with great and unmatched wisdom making the call on this one. What could possibly go wrong?
8
The Kurds have been honorable allies fighting for the future of their people. We have just turned on our back on them.Where are our military leadership and Congress? We need to ask just what personal interest is this decision serving for President Trump?
8
It appears that Trump will have accomplished one more of the Kremlin's missions once Turkey or Syria or Iran or Iraq take out the Kurds. Trump has methodically (with the help of the GOP) destroyed our relationships with our allies. They have trashed our relationship with NATO. The UN will most likely move to another country, our influence has been muted because our Allies can no longer trust us. The downfall of the USA is depressing to watch. Our one chance is to secure our elections and I have little faith that will happen.
10
This is what happens when you have a "president" who considers himself smarter than anyone else, when in reality he is the least with respect to IQ. Without consulting real professionals in foreign affairs, he made this disastrous decision to please his friend Erdogan, after one of those admirable phone calls he has with leaders, especially friendly ones with dictators. Just like a little boy playing a board game, he moves our military and betrays our friends.
5
I fear Turkey is about to launch another genocidal campaign. As the Ottoman Empire was collapsed, its government systematically exterminated between 700,000 and 1,500,000 Armenians. At about the same time the Ottoman government instigated a Greek genocide seeking driving out hundreds of thousands of Greek-speaking Orthodox Christians from what is now Turkey into Greece, massacring thousands in the process. In recent years the Turkish government has tried to suppress the use of the Kurdish language in the parts of country where many ethnic Kurds live. Sometimes resistance is violent, so the Turkish government calls all resistance "supporting terrorism." The Syrian Kurdish areas are just over the border from the Turkish Kurdish areas. The Syrian Kurds have had a high degree of autonomy in organizing local government and schools because they have been trusted allies of the United States in the fight against ISIS. The Turkish Kurds have a local government and school system closely watched by their national government to make sure the policy of having Turkish national culture prevail over Kurdish culture is followed. The Turkish government claims it can not tolerate Kurdish terrorists across the border. The truth is it can not tolerate Kurdish freedom across the border.
5
How many times have our tax dollars engaged in such terrible tactics? I am disgusted that we arm and train and then ABANDON factions then leave to let them figure and fight it out.
1
I am exhausted by having this mad man in office. Despite thinking that he is delusional, I am still flabbergasted that he has decided to pull the plug on our allies and partners in pushing back and defeating the bulk of ISIS - both in Syria and Iraq. Clearly a mother with children fleeing gun violence in Honduras is more of a threat - than a terrorist organization like ISIS. How else to explain his policy choices? Meanwhile, as we all know too well, when the Turks start slaughtering our Kurdish allies and partners - who helped our military -they will be denied safe quarter in the US - because they are Muslim. We are so doomed.
9
I understand our desire to disengage from conflicts but I do not think I would start in Syria. I'd start in Afghanistan where the dispute is wholly internal and not really our business.
In the case of Syria, we started the problem there because our dumbest president ever decided to invade Iraq based upon the false allegations that Iraq possesed WMD's and took part in 9/11 and thereby created ISIS, Islamic State In Iraq and Syria.
As such, since we caused this mess we should stick it out until the mess is taken case of. Plus I don't trust Turkey as they are allied with the fake, so-called islamic republic of Iran with its unelected, illegitimate, Twelver dictators and who, even if we haven't noticed, have taken over Iraq and installed their Shia religious cohorts.
5
Some people are going to find this offensive. Too bad.
I am a Vietnam veteran who literally fought alongside Vietnamese forces in the Mekong Delta. I am deeply shamed to this day by our abandonment of those men and their families on the tarmac at Tan Son Nhut.
The ignorance of Americans about world history is simply astounding. The very term "genocide" grew out of the Turkish massacre of Christian Armenians, who were fellow citizens of th Ottoman Empire, starting in 1915. The devices were guns and forced marches without food or water across the Syrian deserts. The estimated death toll was 50% of the entire Armenian population of over two million.
Now our bone-headed accidental president is going to expose the Kurds to an unrepentant Turkish government? We're going to abandon them like we did our South Vietnamese allies, the Montagnards, the Hmong, the Cambodians and the Mujahideen who whipped the Soviets...and then whipped us?
Besides the stain on our souls...it didn't work out so well when the Mujahideen morphed into al Qaeda. Now we're going to do it again with the Kurds?
Remind me again of the definition of insanity?
21
@Patrick Borunda insanity.... the people supporting a blatantly corrupt liar by the name Trump. I will never understand the blindness of “if it’s my party they can not be doing anything illegal “ when if this was Obama doing 1% of Trumps insanity The Republicans would be apoplectic.
3
His Holiness, The Chosen, Emperor Trump views the Kurds as a headache. They’re not good for doing him favors or fattening his wallet. So, no matter the reasons to not abandon the Kurds, and no matter the consequences for America and the World for doing so, the Emperor picked up the phone and did it. Ask him if he cares.
The Kurds truly are great people that have suffered persecution and denied their homeland for centuries.
We have abandoned the Kurdish people again to be slaughtered, just like we did when Saddam Hussein shot, bombed and gassed them to death.
How can a supposed Democracy like the U.S. allow the president to do something so terrible for America and the world without buy-in from Congress, The Defense Department, and our allies (not to mention the Kurds)?
What is our Constitution, Congress, and Democracy worth if a self-styled Emperor can just pick up the phone and create a global catastrophe?
The GOP is a casket of corruption, remain largely loyal to the twisted demands of their mega-donors. The DOJ, State Department, FDA, FCC, DOD, and Federal Courts are just some of the institutions that trump has corrupted and co-opted for his own benefit.
We call ourselves Americans, but at this time, we are no longer in the Founder's America. I hope we can dig our way out of this, but murdered Kurds and victims of terrorism can't. Ask trump he cares.
7
It is time to confront Turkey. It is not an ally. It has just purchased Russian missiles designed to shoot down NATO jets.
For years, ISIS had their black flags on Turkey's border, beheading westerners, massacring countless civilians, and Turkey not only did nothing it supported them. allowed free passage of militants, weapons, cheered ISIS when they attacked Kobani.
That was not enough Erdogan threathened the West saying on the record "No westerners will be allowed to walk safely anywhere in the world safely"
Now that Kurds defeated ISIS and can have peace, Turkey and Erdogan are up in arms.
Turkey feels they got away with genocide after genocide Armenian Greeks and Assyrians and now they thing they can do the same to Kurds. Just look at what they did in Afrin rape, torture, mass execution of civilians. Displacing more than 200K Kurds from their homes and populating the city with their Jihadists.
The west shoudl realize they can never placate this genocidal regime. The blackmail will continue. Unleashing migrants (read Jihadists) in Europe, leaving NATO etc.
It is time to stop the appeasement and start to confront this genocidal regime. Only then a real change in the region and Turkey can be achieved.
3
This is what you get for trusting the Americans. They have never backed their allies in times of hardship!
2
@John Velotto Never huh? Take a good look around over there in London, because the city would still be smoldering if America hadn't entered WWII.
3
@John Velotto
If what you said were true, you would be speaking German in London.
We have made many, many mistakes in recent years but the American people will never abandon our allies in times of trouble.
1
Is this Trump’s attempt to distract us from the impeachment? It won’t work; the Kurds must be protected. The Turkish army is said to be hours from the Kurdish-Syrian border. The Kurds have to be saved!!!!
Two things come to mind:
a) The Kurds were incredibly foolish not to seek a reasonable deal with Assad one year ago. Instead they held the oil fields while the rest of Syria has had fuel shortages. Now they want a deal.
b) Where were the cries of horror when the Houti's were being starved in Yemen? Where was the sympathy when ISIS almost overran Damascus, which would have probably resulted in a massacre as bad as Nanking?
1
The most effective loyal and motivated foes of the Sunni Muslim Wahhabi extremist ethnic Arab terrorist likes of al Qaeda, ISIS. the Saudi royals and the Gulf Arab States are the Sunni Muslim ethnic Kurds.
The Kurds are reviled and feared by ethnic Arabs, ethnic Turks and ethnic Persians aka Iranians. The Kurds don't have a nation state where they are a majority.
1
When thousands of ISIS soldiers and their family break free, and an inevitable attack claims American (I would add "ally" but I guess they don't matter anymore) lives, that blood will be on Trump's head.
And Republicans...it will be on yours as well. It is all on your party. You know it, and the Democrats know it. And the voters will know it, as well.
1
I would assume that the source of all of Trump’s actions begin solely with Putin wishes.
Was the latest action in Syria a favor for Erdoğan from Putin via Trump?
3
This is the chaos that occurs when a criminal takes his place behind the desk in the Oval Office. Whatever recompense we will become subjected to in this country as a consequence of having allowed the election of a charlatan and criminal to the country’s highest office (and the world’s most powerful), we will deserve.
2
Trump gave ISIS the gift that never stops giving. He surrendered.
In His "Great and Unmatched Wisdom," Trump benched US forces and surrendered the field to ISIS, Syria, Iran, Turkey -- oh right, and Russia.
But if ISIS regroups it's all on Obama?
1
The Republicans are cowards not standing by the Kurds after all the fighting they did against Isis. You can’t trust any Republican running your country or a war. Look how Trump and the GOP angered NATO. Never happened under Mr Obama. They all liked him.
3
The simplest solution would be to give Kurds their own country -- they will definitely keep ISIS out of that.
2
I do not get it. The Kurds will be under pressure from Turkey, Russia, Iran and Syria. They have no airfare, as far as I can see. What if Turkey rolls in, Kurds attack them, and then are strafed by Turkish air power? Sounds like a bloodbath. Why does Trump thin this is a good thing? As long as the Americans are there, Turkey will not enter. It seems to me that we should give Kurds jets and hells, and then let them defend themselves. I think they would do very well against almost any army in the mideast. Also, if we leave, what is to prevent the Kurds from killing all their Isis prisoners, just to get rid of the responsibility of guarding them? maybe that is what we want.
1
Good. And they should
Trump's "Syria Policy' is to betray and abandon our Kurdish allies, letting them be killed by Trump's buddies Putin and Erdogan. Trump is the most treacherous American President in our history.
3
Trump is giving "aide and comfort" by abandoning our friends.
We have a traitor in the white house. Pure a simple.
4
Read #KurdsSideWithTurkey and stop calling YPG as Kurds. They don’t represent Kurds. Giving them cute names (Syrian Democratic Forces) does not hide who these terrorists are. PKK is a terrorist organization. And it is declared so by US and EU for a very ling time. Just because you were late to the party in Syria should not have made you embrace terrorists as your peons. Good that trump is pulling the plug finally.
1
Sure, Trump can meet with President Erdogan in DC, all the while looking out the window of the Oval Office as Erdogans tugs beat up on the press...
1
Great way to treat your allies.
This will seriously undermine any attempts the U.S. may make in the future to coordinate actions with other countries. Why would anyone ever work with us again?
3
Without US weapons, and cash, and close air support, and special forces to call it in, just what is he going to use to fight the mechanized forces of NATO's largest army?
They are not Assad in the midst of a civil war with his army in rebellion.
Even against Assad and ISIS, mere rebels, they have needed all that US support they got. They've screamed loudly when threatened with loss of it. The "only way" to keep down ISIS is to provide that support to the Kurds.
So now, without it, just how much of a fight does anyone expect they can give Turkey? When they fire their antitank missiles at Turkish tanks, will the US resupply them? Who would?
This is an understandable reaction, but it is bluster all the same.
The US is not willing to fight Turkey, and said so. Period.
6
Gee idk, I remember hearing the same argument about a bunch of impoverished goat herders in Afghanistan and here we are 20 years later with a president surrendering to the Taliban because we can't beat them.
4
@Mark Thomason Yeah, but they can still cause significant damage to Turkey until they have to resupply. You seem to think they've been on a tight leash but everything I've read suggests they have stockpiles of various sorts and could indeed make it painful for Turkey for several years.
It's a matter of will - I don't think Turkey has the ability to pacify the kurds and furthermore, if the US steps out, someone else will step in. Look at the various proxy wars in the region.
Now, if the US is going to step out of all those wars, I'm happy for the soliders. Perhaps we can then reduce the money we budget to the military or at least redirect more of it to science, etc. but nonetheless, the world is going to end up in a worse place and this is what in the end led to things like WWI and WW2 - the US acting as a policeman is something I strongly dislike so I'm okay with this "experiment" to teach the world a lesson but my guess is that done this way, there's going to be a nasty blowback.
1
@Mark Thomason - Mark, I assume "he" in that first sentence refers to Mazlum Kobani.
I point to that because I am puzzled by your focusing on the Kurds ("they") and on Kurdish "bluster" rather than on the Trump decision to remove US troops.
Clearly, the US is not going to use US troops in a war against Turkey. I point here, briefly to important facts about the role and situation of US troops in Kurdish Syria that I get from an analysis by Swedish-Israeli Dagens Nyheter journalist Nathan Schachar in an essential article today under the headline: A High Risk Gamble That Can Open The Door for IS.
Very few Americans there to help the Kurds have lost their lives and none are losing their lives now. More than 10,000 Kurds have lost their lives there while driving out Daesh (ISIS).
Turkey cannot bomb an area where US troops are present. Remove those troops and Turkey can kill not only Kurdish military but Kurdish civilians.
Now I will try to compose a main comment.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
2
Personally, I'm rooting for the Kurds.
83
The Kurds deserve our respect, admiration and loyalty.
6
Amazing how everyone has an opinion on what should happen to whom—who’s willing to give up their land for the Kurds? But this is what the US and Europeans have always done in the 20th century, invent new countries and draw borders in the Middle East and wonder why they can’t get along
9
@Bbp .. right it's the US and Europe's fault the Kurds are being oppressed by Muslim majorities in that region... Not the fault of the *actual people oppressing them*
3
A statesman would broker an agreement between two allies, not just avoid the situation. I thought Trump was versed in the art of deal making?
15
@Biz Griz Nah, he's versed in corruption, power, and most obviously, anti-Democracy.
3
@Biz Griz
Precisely. If Donald Trump had really not been a compromised charlatan during all his playing up to Putin and Erdogan, if Donald Trump had really been the master of the art of the deal whose business prowess translated into presidential political skill, then he would have taken this moment of success, Obama's and Trump's support of the Kurds to dismantle the ISIS Caliphate, as an opportunity to bring the interested parties together at the UN, or fly them up to Turnberry or down to Doral, and broker a deal between them to turn control of the region over to the Kurds with international support and an eye toward gradually relocating Syrian refugees who would be welcome there and respect Kurdish authority as we continued aiding them (as we do with other nations) in their fight against ISIS terrorists.
2
I commented on another article related to this subject that President Trump is correct in getting the US out of these unnecessary wars.
President Erdogan is also correct in setting up a buffer zone against the Kurds. These Kurds have been a thorn in the side of Turkey (Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc.) for many decades. What the Kurds do not understand is that they are scattered around in a region that belongs to many countries and must live with that. It is the same with Pushtun who live both in Pakistan and Afghanistan, or the Baluch who live in Pakistan and Iran, or the Pubjabis who live in Pakistan and India. Not every ethnic group is supposed to have their own little country. The simple administrative overhead of such things is nonsensical.
The Kurds have been committing terrorist attacks within Turkey for a long time, and President Erdogan is correct to do something to ensure that these Syrian Turks do not align themselves with the Turkish Kurds to start creating further havoc inside Turkey.
My recommendation would be for the Turks to demand these Syrian Kurds to start living peacefully within Syria under Syrian rule, now that we have the ISIS (ISIL) hoodlums under control. If these Kurds want to fight, I think the Turks will flatten them, and correctly so. I see the ultimate goal of these Kurds to carve out their own country and in the process destroy 4 or 5 others. This cannot be allowed.
5
@NA
According to the BBC, there are 25 to 35 million Kurds living in a mountainous region straddling Iran, Armenia, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey - about three or more times the current size of Israel. The Jewish population of Israel was much smaller when it was created as a homeland for Jews. Yet, incredibly, you blame the Kurds for wanting their own nation-state and defending themselves, but say nothing about the brutal injustices perpetrated on them in Iraq and Turkey. These include Saddam's chemical attack against the Kurds in 1988 that killed between 3000 and 5000 people in Halabja and the thousands killed by Turkey in multiple massacres during the 20th C. Note that Iraqi Kurdistan is the only well-functioning part of Iraq and might function even better if it was independent of Baghdad. Perhaps a future Kurdish nation will prove to be a friend to the USA like Israel. As a post-Holocaust Jew, I understand the need and strongly support Kurdish aspirations for a homeland. Unlike the Saudis, the Kurds will neither promote a culture that is hostile to American values nor give support Jihadist movements.
4
@NA from someone from the region, the example you give of Punjabis and pasthuns are totally wrong. Punjabis were at the frontfront of movement to Partition India based on religion. Worst atrocities of Partition were commited in Punjab. Out of 10 million who died due to Partition of India, 5 million were Punjabis who killed each other.
Pashtun example is wrong again, because Pashtuns living in British India too were supporter of Pakistan. They could have demanded of merging their territory with Afghanistan with India, but they did not.Add to Bengalis, Tamils all who are spread across 2 countries.
These are accepted, because they are dominant in atleast 1 country(Punjabis are dominant in both India and Pakistan).
Kinda like the fact, how native speakers of French and German are spread across countries, yet they are not one.
The problem with Kurds is they were never consulted before their homeland was split among 4 countries, nor did they get to choose afterwards. They were a minority in all 4 countries and discriminated and subjected to massacres. They form a contagious region and speak a common language. They see themselves as "Kurds". If this isn't the basis of a nation, I don't think anything else that is.
2
That this situation has occurred is so sad and troubling as it is the US which has brought this about, with a rogue President who has no moral imperative and would throw anyone under the bus as he proved with his early Administration. Even in the case of Manafort he was going to pardon him and that has not happened. This man cares nothing about our Country, our people, the rule of law -- but is guided by what he can get away with, and so far his absolute neglect of decency has shocked any opponent into silence and inaction, such as Mueller. So not surprising at all that he has created this situation over 50 American military personnel, just making policy on the telephone and by tweet when the mood strikes. Using the Constitution (the misconstrued version he has made up) to justify his actions.
6
They are bluffing. They will just pull out of the border areas before the Turks get in. Then they will have to negotiate some accommodation with Assad which will come short of their current insistence on broad autonomy for Kurdish area, as it is completely unacceptable to Turkey. And Americans get to go home. Everyone is happy. Except for the Kurds that is, but they will get over it. Sounds like a good plan. The only plan that makes any sense and have a chance of working out, in fact.
2
The Kurds have 50 people providing security for 70,000 refugees, plus they are holding over 1,000 ISIS members. When Turkey attacks, it will take all their forces to defend themselves and ISIS starts anew. Is the U.S. going to send troops in again when ISIS reestablishes itself? The Kurds certainly won't be fighting alongside the U.S. next time.
23
@No recall There is not one single fact in what you said.
1
Who benefits from this decision? Turkey for sure and Russia. America’s influence in the area is reduced and if the Kurds are defeated, ISIS has a safe state in which to rise again. Common Sense reveals the truth here. Trump is not supporting American interests.
37
Another poke in the eye of an ally, this time with deadly consequences. Only someone who has never served would decide to pull back troops without thorough planning and communication. And to think that trump may have made this decision just to get Erdogan to stop yelling at him.
Shameful, cowardly, dangerous, afflicted with worsening dementia. I hope the Republicans are proud of what they've built.
27
@Carruthers Check out @ChuckPfarrer on twitter, Ex original seal team 6, and author, puts it all in perspective.
2
Hmm, what’s best about Trump’s great and unmatched wisdom?
Is it the corruption of allowing Erdogan to attack our ally in exchange for the personal enrichment of a Turkish Trump Tower?
Or simply the mind-boggling incompetence of no clear policy in a war zone?
Everything Donald Trump touches gets ruined. Everything.
15
Surely Trump told them they need a wall... and that Turkey will pay for it. I’d laugh but this is a deadly situation sure to result in a bloodbath... thousands of lives lost... another Trump failure.
5
I’m sure that the two Trump towers in Istanbul has nothing to do with his “policy”. But the GOP has never been shy about their business interests featuring prominently in Middle East bloodshed.
11
Trump makes "Clear and Present Danger " become a reality.
9
Whether it's the SDF or Turkey, it's all a violation of Syrian sovereignty. By propping up the Free Syrian Army, other jihadists and the Kurds, we've helped commit atrocities that have culminated in the destruction of the Syrian state. But I guess that was always the point.
1
Better to save two Trump Towers in Istanbul, Turkey than 60,000 Kurdish fighters, so thinks Trump.
Money talks, blood can be washed away
10
What did Erdogan offer Trump to sell out our allies?
8
Kurdistan should become an American protectorate, not an ally abandoned to face potential genocide!
11
This decision is one more glaring example showing how ignorant Donald Trump is of the real world in which we live. It is a shame to submit to Turkey, which clearly is not truly our ally. It is inexcusably shameful to abandon our Kurdish allies, who for years have put their lives on the line to help stabilize Iraq and Syria in partnership with the US. If we do not stand by our friends, what good are we?
13
The NYT "zone of control" is completely misleading. The area shown as SDF control included Raqqa. Most if the area indicated is Arab not Kurdish. It is precisely the 20 Mike's "buffer" sought by the murderous Erdogan that is where the Kurds live. It is a plan for ethnic cleansing if the Kurds.
4
The US is staying and acting illegally in Syria, like the praised western liberal states, France, United Kingdom, .....
Russia and Iran not.
But when does the US think about legality.
There was no democratic uprising in Syria.
Like there was no democratic uprising in Libya.
These states did not like to bow to the western liberal states.
Remember the immediate support from Turkey, Saudi-Arabia, US ea.
Remember the unfolding of supported groups as even untolerable for the US.
A kurdish terrorist is and will be a terrorist for ever.
May be he will take a democratic camouflage , if ievitable.
I expect from the NYT to cover geopolitical aspects.
May be I am wrong, but I expect the NYT and its readers of to be a bit more intellctual flexible.
3
@Marcus Aurelius
Turkey has 14 million Ethnic Kurds living within its borders. In fact, Turkey had a Kurdish president served from 1989-1993. So this naive perspective of Americans about Turks taking offensive position against Kurds is baseless. In fact, Turkey has chosen to defend itself against radical Kurds who believe that terrorizing Turkish towns, killing soldiers, kidnapping children to groom them as terrorists will allow them to have their own country. Suppose Californians wanted to create their own state by attacking other US citizens, army. Turks and Kurds have lived peacefully . It weren’t for the oil in the region, nobody would have cared about Kurds or their rights in the region. There are so many countries going through lot of atrocities, we mostly see US intervening when there’s oil concerns.
Does Erdoğan have something on Trump? So many bad guys have influence with Trump you gotta wonder. As his crony with the National Inquirer would say “inquiring minds want to know” especially if its useful & dirty, like Trump is for his authoritarian buddies.
3
If and when Kurdish genocide occurs... blood will be on Crazy Trump and his GOP Enablers hands... and the GOP will pay a very heavy price with Christian evangelicals and at the 2020 voting booth.
Trump only cares about himself.... not millions of Christian Kurdish allies.
8
The Kurds’ blood will be on the hands of any American foolish enough to see that Trump seeks to destroy America. Continued support for Trump can only lead to civil war and a very happy Putin.
1
@JohnE
Trump's mentor, Roy Cohen, after being droped by Trump, said "Trump pees ice water". That is exactly what we see here. Trump finds it inconvenient to support long time allies of the US. So he drops them. Why would any other country support the US?
1
I guess we add Erdogan to the list of BFF despots our “unmatched” wise leader wants to hang with
5
I was opposed to the Obama Adm. sending troops to Syria. It's easy to poke your fist in the proverbial 'tar baby,' but not so easy to pull it out. We've invested far too much blood and treasure in endless Middle East wars.
1
To trump everybody is a Kurd.
2
If this leads to a slaughter it will be the fault of our coward in chief, aka president bone spur.
7
Too bad the president was so distracted by a kangaroo court congress that he lost focus on his his astute and comprehensive plan to bring peace to Syria. At least ISIS is "100%" defeated, so he must have concluded that we no longer need Kurdish assistance. I guess the Kurds are not able to investigate democratic rivals. Erdogan must have some valuable information to share. I hope he enjoys his White House visit. Curiouser and curiouser.
32
@TB Johnson Not curious. It all comes from the Putin source. Trump is incapable of actual thought — he said so himself— operating from his gut.
2
Trump is brilliantly right. A conflict between 2 allies isn’t something we should take a side in. This is not our fight!
5
@Qcell:
Although, it is, and has been our fight for the last four decades plus.
Our decisions will determine the ramifications regarding our future, and the decisions will, simultaneously, promote even more negativity towards us; they have in the past. Remember the Afghan mujahideen, the organization we embraced against the then USSR only to abandon them? What became of them? It's complex but simple at the same time. If I remember correctly, Al Qaeda attacked us because of their perceived reasons we occupied the Middle East; they could have been defending oil, as well.
2
@Qcell .. a statesman would broker an agreement between the two allies, not just dump the situation completely
@Qcell it’s something we should try to avert. Our allies fighting Each other weakens us. We want our enemies to fight each other, not our allies.
1
Turkey allowed ISIS fighters to trickle if not flood into Syria while our allies the Kurds stood up and fought. Turkey's troops stood pat at their border while war waged on for years. Now Turkey intends to contest and invade a relatively safe territory secured by our military and the Kurds? And Trump rolls over like a dog??
42
@Noah turkey allowed? Cia, neocons, pentagon created isis and trained them first. Civil war idea was pentagon’s and cias first. ( google general wesley clark book, 7 wars in 5 years) it was part of the plan to create this chaos. Before blaming others, read. Yes erdogan was stupid enough to follow cia, pentagon intosupporting these killers so esad is gone. But follow the money, real masters are here in usa. They are against democracy, constitution of the usa.
2
Trump did these people wrong. Very, very wrong! What did Putin and Turkey give him for this betrayal? Everyone knows Trump and his Republican mob are out trolling the globe for dirt on political opponents! The poor Kurds have nothing like that offer, so they're expendable to them.
16
A direct attack is probably not a good idea. Let their enemies feel their pain. Unconventional warfare by the Kurds will put the Turks into a Vietnam of their own.
7
@Indy1 That is exactly what I said!
The Kurds are hardened fighters with US weapons. The Turks will be slaughtered if they invade, just like our soldiers were slaughtered in Vietnam.
2
The SDF is dominated by a secular, left-wing, and strongly pro-women's rights Kurdish political party and its militia, the YPG. That alone, regardless of any ideological or organizational affinity to the PKK, is enough to make them a formidable enemy of ISIS, but also a threat to Erdogan--and, ultimately, to the various hues of petro-theocrats throughout the region.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/dark-victory-in-raqqa
28
A lesson to the world: don’t partner or support the US while trump is in the WH
16
Trump has not convinced Erdogan to not attack the Kurds. That means that Erdogan believes that if he does, the U.S. will do nothing of significance in response.
I hope that Graham, McConnell et al learn that letting Trump act the fool is a serious problem, more serious that upsetting their base by criticizing the stable genius when he acts stupidly.
11
Trump has economic interests in Turkey and now that the Kurds have died fighting ISIS he feels he doesn't need them any more.
Plus, as opposed to his self image as "strong", he always gives into the last person he speaks to, which was Erdogan this time.
In the past, he has changed his mind on his decisions when he has heard criticism from Fox or anyone on the right. That is already happening.
However, trying to find even a semi rational explanation is hopeless. I'm sure if Trump was asked to describe the Kurd's national aspirations he would have no idea how to do so. He operates in complete ignorance in life or death situations.
Note morality is not part of his world view. He threatens Turkey with unspecified economic reprisals, as he understands money so much better than he understands military realities.
9
Support Rojava! The Kurds are absolutely critical in keeping the Middle East stable at this point. Not Turkey, not Saudi Arabia, not Iran, and not even Israel. Only the Kurds have shown as of late that they are a true liberal democracy willing to work for peace. Every other major power in the area is stoking violence just to keep hold on their power.
50
Why is there any question of what Khobani will do if Turkey invades his area in Syria? The Kurds no longer have the support of the US, and they know what would await them from the Turks, who have been at war with Kurds for generations. Of course the Kurds will defend themselves from Erdogan’s forces.
3
The Kurds will have to make a deal with the Assad/Russian regime or the Iranians. In the interim ISIS will see a resurgence. Trump's foreign policy makes no sense.
6
@Carol Avrin It is a failure from the time he has taken office, like his endeavors with North Korea.
Iraq is hanging on by a thread. Lebanon is armed to the teeth with Iranian missiles. Saudi Arabia is in a pitch battle in Yemen which is supported by Iran. Russia is blowing up what's left of Syria. Everyone in the region has it in for Israel.
I mean you couldn't design a more volatile situation if you tried. Top it off with Trump abdicating any positive influence and the place is about to blow. Now this. A new hot war between the Kurds and Turkey. ISIS will rise from the grave.
All of the actors are now taking sides and sizing up their opponents. They are all targeting the spoils they can reap when the place goes up , again.
Well, Trump got one thing right. He wants to get all of our troops out of the way. At least he understands that the region will become a death trap when the war he just started gets going. I'm sure Putin will provide him all the guidance necessary for maximum Iranian gain.
7
Our troops will only stay out until trump needs a distraction. He'll be holding this card in his pocket while congratulating himself on what a master manipulator he is.
1
So, let's imagine Turkey goes for it and moves against the Kurds. Trump is making a lot of promises now about how we are still going to support the Kurds, and all the ways we will punish Turkey if they follow through with their plans. But how can we?
1) Once the Turkish army is engaged, those 1000 American troops won't be enough to handle it. We'd have to make a significantly larger military commitment.
2) Turkey is a NATO ally. We're going to go war against a member of NATO?
It isn't going to happen. Once we allow Turkey to move in, the Kurds are on their own. Even Trump's talk about "destroying the Turkish economy" is hollow. All the promises Trump is making now will prove empty very soon, and seriously damage American credibility. Meanwhile, we will have started a war in the Middle East, and destabilized NATO. All of this was being prevented by 1000 troops, which Trump pulled out with a tweet.
This guy is a national security threat now. And he's destabilizing the entire world. He must go. Now.
50
Things will likely only get worse (for us and the world) the more Trump feels trapped and attacked by the impeachment process.
You somehow managed to leave out the important third option that is on the table for the Kurds. Accept the Assad government's victory over the entirety of Syria, including their carved out redoubt, pledge their allegiance to him and fall under his protection. Assad will then reestablish his territorial borders and protect his subjects from a Turkish invasion.
Erdogan will be happy because he will know he is safe from incursion from a separatist Kurdish State.
Of course, God forbid, we leave it to the locals to solve their own problems, hence this glaring omission from the article.
8
@Dino Reno ~
The reality is that for most of the past 2000 years, most of the "Mid east" and Africa, for that matter, were "tribal" states, in a historical, not insulting, sense.
It wasn't until the West, Europe at first and then the US a bit later, started to come in and decided what their borders should be and who should be in charge and THEN ... who owned the oil.
SO in less that a century we destroyed 2000 years of their society.
And best as I read, that IS something God seems to want to forbid.
1
Like many Americans, I would like to disengage from the quagmire in this part of the world. Trusting this administration, with the all wise all knowing Oz in charge to do so in a manner that would protect our interests and those who have supported us in the region is the height of folly.
3
America betrayed the Kurds in Iraq when Sadam was in power, leaving them to be slaughtered, and it is betraying them again in Syria, leaving them to be slaughtered ....
This is the largest ethnic group in the world at some 20 million in number who do not have a homeland, having been divided up among several “countries” whose borders were drawn up by the British to intentionally promote weakness, discord and instability in the Middle East. America has repeatedly blocked any chance of self-determination and nationhood among the Kurds while implying friendship.
At some point, the Kurds will finally realise that the US is the most untrustworthy and contemptible partner they can have. That is if they survive, with every country they inhabit trying to annihilate them ....
23
America betrayed the Kurds in Iraq when Sadam was in power, leaving them to be slaughtered, and it is betraying them again in Syria, leaving them to be slaughtered ....
This is the largest ethnic group in the world at some 20 million in number who do not have a homeland, having been divided up among several “countries” whose borders were drawn up by the British to intentionally promote weakness, discord and instability in the Middle East. America has repeatedly blocked any chance of self-determination and nationhood among the Kurds while implying friendship.
At some point, the Kurds will finally realise that the US is the most untrustworthy and contemptible partner they can have. That is if they survive, with every country they inhabit trying to annihilate them ....
2
The US has a bad reputation of abandoning locals who assisted them in foreign wars. Remember the South Vietnamese translators, drivers, spies and aides left to their own resources after the American bailout. The same thing happened to those in Afghanistan and Iraq. Use them and abuse them, then leave their allies behind to fend for themselves.
20
Actually tens of thousands of South Vietnamese were successfully relocated to the states as the "conflict" came to a sudden conclusion, unlike our Iraqi allies and partners that were left to be slaughtered during the American withdrawal because whooodaaa thought invading the Middle East would be a political quagmire....
2
@Noah ~ Good point.
A lot of the Vietnamese came through our well-vetted international refugee program, which historically under the leadership of the President has directed help to 60,000 - 120,000 of people annually from countries that "deserved" this support, especially ones that we had ravaged.
Want to know what Trump has done with THIS effort?
1
So devastating the Turkish economy the same way we sanctioned North Korea for those short range missiles which violate UN sanctions. Or sanctions against Russia for bothering our 2016 election. My only question is how many Kurdish lives are worth the tax rebates Trump gets in Istanbul for his towers ?
6
Trump should be impeached for this decision as well. He's an ally of Russia and Syria.
23
@Andrew Macdonald ~
He should be impeached solely on the threats he made to Turkey.
Looks like we have the Kurdish “Chalabi” in Kobani.
Any lessons learned by US media, policy makers, etc. from Iraq?
I’m holding my breath. Ok, I passed out.
2
If a Kurdish country were to take place with the help of the US, that would become the staunchest ally ever in the region, even more so than Israel.
12
Trump's attempt to betray the Kurds may be just enough for Republicans in the Senate to agree to Trump's removal if the House impeaches, now looking like a very real possibility. It is a wonder that Trump does not understand he needs allies in the Senate but he does little to show he does. Does he consult no one before he announces that Turkey has the green light to go into Syria and that means kill the Kurds. Maybe he is backtracking on this (too) or maybe not.
2
What prevented the Turkish incursion into Syria before now? ISIS? Why is the U.S. leaving when they know that Turkey plans to invade Syria? Just tell me what makes Osmanlı any better than ISIS? Turkey is invading Syria? How is THIS ok? How did the quid pro quo go on this one? You can have your Trump Towers II complex in Istanbul keep the name Trump up on there but we get our own 21st genocide. Deal?
4
Another gift to Putie. The comprimat he must have on Trump!
4
Such ugly images : Turkish troops poised to slaughter Kurds; Trump abandoning Kurds at the behest of Erdoğan; the latter invited to our White House with Kurdish blood on his hands to be feted by Trump.
9
It’s time for Kurdistan to become a reality. That much seems very clear to us now.
91
Only one little mention of Assad, I presume still the President of Syria?
When Erdogan literally pushes the 1 million Syrian refugees back into this new 'buffer zone', who will take care of them? Even if only tents and latrines, who will provide the water, food, medical supplies? Assad? Will he welcome these Syrians back into the fold or would he rather just bomb them? Turkey just 'returned' 1 million "problems" back to Assad. What's clear is nobody wants them.
Now I'm hearing Turkey wants the international community to help build housing for these refugees? Oh, and Turkey may help too. Profit motive here?
And of course none of these refugee considerations answer what is to happen to the Kurds? Will Turkey obliterate them in his quest to eradicate this enemy? What will Assad's forces do?
And why would Erdogan come to the WH to visit Trump while his armies are in active war? More aid? Is this an open part of Trump's plan? Does Trump have a plan?
Looks like the beginning of another huge mess with severe human consequences in the Middle East. Our isolationist Trump plans to watch from the sidelines what he set into motion?
22
@Elizabeth
"Oh, and Turkey may help too. Profit motive here?"
Without a doubt. Erdogan is, in Turkey anyway, an obvious Mafioso. His family, political party, henchmen all stand to gain BIGTIME.
6
@Elizabeth
The Syrians can stay at Trump's twin towers in Istanbul. Best solution I can come up with, hope it helps.
@Elizabeth Erdogan did poorly in an election this spring. Like lots of other autocrats he figures a war will help him win back the public.
Trump has already walked back on his demand for an American withdrawal in Syria while leaving the Kurds hung out to dry. Now the Turks are questioning Trump’s reliability. Hmm. I wonder why? Trump is not an honorable operator as we all know. Now, the rest of the world has a bird’s eye view of our president and his lack of respect to government functionality and protocols.
54
Wouldn't it be interesting if all of those Daesh prisoners of war were released into western Turkey as a result of the U.S. deserting the Kurds? You never know. Maybe Daesh will start its new Caliphate in western Turkey.
15
@Hap Hapner
You're assuming they don't regard Erdogan as an ally. Given Turkey's role as a conduit for fighters to the Daesh "caliphate" and oil purchases from them, Erdogan may effectively be a sponsor.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/12/turkeys-double-isis-standard/
5
Trump would not be able to discuss the situation in Syria if someone asked him. His decision was made either for money or because of what Putin told him to do. The thought of an American president behaving in this way makes me sick.
98
Is this reckless decision another:
1) Quid pro quo;
2) Attempt to distract people from his big troubles;
3) Sign of his deep incompetence (I know better than generals);
4) Order from the Kremlin.
57
@ArmandoI
All of the above.
7
@ArmandoI All of the above. If he had a plan.
4
Concisely put.
3
Russia's position is that Putin and Erodgan didn't discuss any Turkish military incursion but it is probably certain that the two intelligence agencies are communicating. Russia stated firmly that it is against any compromise of the territorial integrity of Syria.
https://tass.com/politics/1081797
6
Hopefully this won’t be the incursion that somehow sets off a broader regional conflict (akin to India and Pakistan) that quickly escalates into a full-scale superpower proxy war, or worse. There was something to be said for keeping forces in Syria and just maintaining stability and the status quo.
15
There’s only one true superpower remaining, and the authoritarians know what will happen if they fall under American bombardment. Russia and China are weak, and afraid of their own respective citizenry.
Unfortunately, Turkey holds a lot of the cards here.
Its recent pivot Russia (buying S-400 missiles in violation of US sanctions) has gotten Washington concerned. Trump just threatened to "obliterate" Turkey's economy - perhaps a sign a sign of desperation.
The decision to withdraw American ground advisors and give free reign to the Turkish in northern Syria could thus be seen as an olive branch to Ankara - a bid to repair relations and draw it closer. Maybe it even fulfils a backdoor demand by Erdogan.
Washington is thus hoping to keep a disgruntled ally satisfied rather than have it pivot further away. Already, Turkey has good relations with Iran (in addition to Russia). Erdogan has also moderated his once strong criticism of China's treatment of Uyghurs (a Turkic people) and has endorsed Beijing's "Belt and Road" which aims to create a trade mega-corridor from China to Europe. This could diminish US influence in the Eurasian landmass. Ankara is also interested in buying Russian Su-57 next-generation fighters following its expulsion from the F-35 program.
From the US viewpoint, Turkey is too important geostrategically to alienate as it sits at the crossroads of Eurasia, connecting Europe Europe to the Middle East and the Caucuses. The Trump administration does not want it to pivot further away and join another axis.
18
@Jack So Jack this sounds like a good theory except for one thing when we did not let them into f-35 program they were already gone. This is all about money and hotels. This is why a president can not be allowed to own property. Look at were dignitaries stay when they visit trump, at trump hotels of course. Do you not remember when he asked a visitor how his accommodations were and if he liked them. That was at the beginning of his term. We here last week about military going two hundred miles out of there way to stay at a trump hotel in Ireland. All about money. In fact Erdogan is visiting the whit house next month, it was just reported.To personally pay the president for his cooperation no doubt. That has been trumps MO when anything has been agreed to people visit him.
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@Jack
Don't forget the millions the Trump Organization gets in licensing fees for an Istanbul RE complex. That counts more than any trivial concerns about US national interests.
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@Jack
You appear to ascribe a huge amount of pre-meditation, analysis and planning to Trump’s rather haphazard and self-serving actions .... I think the real explanation is that he promised his base he would get out of foreign involvement and now that there are impeachment enquiries and imminent elections, he is going about fulfilling those promises in the most abrupt way imaginable, regardless of consequences, so that he can please that “base” and increase his chances of re-election, and to hell with the Kurds.
1
So it appears that Trump's attempt to remove troops from what he calls a never ending war in Syria could ignite another war in Syria between Turkey and the Kurds.
Trumps seems unable to grasp why we have standing troops in South Korea, Germany and other places in the world to try and prevent new wars by nipping conflicts before they turn into wars. In addition he doesn't seem to care or possibly it's been part of a plan before he was elected that he is empowering Putin to be more aggressive in increases the Russian presence throughout the world. I still believe that Putin has something on Trump and that's why every major decision Trumps seems to benefits Putin at the expense of our country.
130
Plus never a better pairing of the words useful and idiot.
2
For anyone wondering why Trump is letting Turkey massacre the Kurds that were our allies, this bit of information may help you understand...
In December 2015, Trump stated in a radio interview that he had a "conflict of interest" in dealing with Turkey because of his property, saying "I have a little conflict of interest, because I have a major, major building in Istanbul ... It’s called Trump Towers. Two towers, instead of one. Not the usual one, it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well."
-"Russia, Turkey expand military operations in Syria during Trump's transition to power". LA Times. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 21 November 2016.
Trump is allowing America's allies to be butchered in order to protect his personal business interests.
3
For anyone wondering why Trump is letting Turkey massacre the Kurds that were our allies, this bit of information may help you understand...
In December 2015, Trump stated in a radio interview that he had a "conflict of interest" in dealing with Turkey because of his property, saying "I have a little conflict of interest, because I have a major, major building in Istanbul ... It’s called Trump Towers. Two towers, instead of one. Not the usual one, it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well."
-"Russia, Turkey expand military operations in Syria during Trump's transition to power". LA Times. Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 21 November 2016.
Trump is allowing America's allies to be butchered in order to protect his personal business interests.
1