Mr President, let the investigation proceed... ... and the truth will(?) set you free....
11
Nancy will do just fine
She’ll make a Wonderful President
and WOW
NO more lying
What a change
21
Trump claims to be going after corruption, so how did he overlook long term pervert Jeffrey Epstein? Why hire “soft on corruption” attorney Acosta? Why didn’t Trump go after them the moment he took office?
These would be great questions for Trump. Imagine how many young girls he could have saved down if Florida?
16
You can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time!
11
We won't rest until we see the full verbatim Trump-Zelensky transcript. Out of the vault!
6
This important story is knocking the whistle blower suit accusing the Treasury of interfering with the IRS on trump's behalf ... Big story coming there !
10
"Trump Denies Quid Pro Quo"
I don't think he know what's the meaning of it....
14
I think it's wonderful that our president wants to fight corruption on an international basis, but find it confusing why out of all the corruption in the world, he has asked foreign countries to investigate the several years-old alleged corruption of only one specific person: Joe Biden, who 'coincidentally' is a political opponent.
I wouldn't be surprised to see an action like this take place in Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, the Philippines, or any other country with a leader admired by Trump - but for him to emulate his dictatorial idols' actions in the U.S. is not acceptable.
21
Representatives Jim Jordan of Ohio and Devin Nunes of California, the ranking Republican members on two of the committees, wrote in a letter. “We hope the American people get to read the transcript of today’s testimony and see the truth.”
One can only hope Jordan and Nunes realize the consequences of debasing the rule of law.
All that will remain in its absence is pitchforks.
14
Trump is very good at dodging bullets however, I have always thought that there will be one bullet that he won't be able to dodge. I don't know if he will dodge this bullet but it seems to me that he is gaming the Dems. He's inviting them to impeach him because he calculates most likely that the Senate will not convict him.Too bad! I hope that I am wrong but it seems to me that there must be very powerful forces and people behind the scenes that are keeping him in office, no matter what. What other explanation could there be? Any ideas?
10
Hmmm, another non-revelation and conflation of two unrelated topics. You cannot read much into these text messages unless you overlay it with alot of bias and contorted assumptions. Basically, no unbiased assessment would conclude these text messages, even in conjunction with the dubious "whistleblower" account, demonstrates anything more than a quite straightforward request to help investigate the 2016 breach of the DNC computers, which was subsequently used as the basis for a two year wild goose chase that not only wasted tens of millions of dollars, but needlessly divided the American public and Congress, for naught. This is a dead hand for the Dems. They're playing an 8/2 off suit like pocket aces. Americans have to speak up and end this divisive and wasteful charade of politicking in place of governing. Get back to working on the Nation's problems, instead of fabricating political ones.
3
The Biden camp might not like what comes out in an impeachment investigation.
Why aren’t Democrats outraged by Joe Biden, while he was VP, trying to get the Ukrainian prosecutor general dismissed, Victor Shoki, who was investigating the Ukrainian gas company, Burisma, on whose board Hunter Biden sits.
I don't know what he's making now, but Hunter was making as much as $50,000/month, not to mention that $1.8 billion in US aid to the company disappeared during Hunter's tenure on the board (which he joined in 2014), while his father was VP.
Sounds like this NEEDS some investigating. It sounds worse than what people are so upset about with the President.
Perhaps, the President was correct to talk to the Ukrainian officials to get a real investigation started.
4
By focusing on the red-herring crux of the many false denials — the question of whether or not there was a "quid pro quo" — this article adds more confusion than clarification to the situation.
3
In this case according to the excerpts released and known by the press the diplomats and envoys don't have doubts... they have certitudes.
2
Isn't it time we begin to examine the Constitution's definition of Treason, "giving aid and comfort to the enemy?"
6
There are three kinds of Republicans:
(1) Those who read and understand what's really going on but don't care to raise their voices, or dissemble if they speak up.
(2) Those who attempt to read but for various reasons don't understand the situation at all.
(3) Those who will never read or listen to anything other than the right-wing media and are willfully ignorant.
You cannot help but despise the first group and feel sorry for the second. Trump counts on the third to perpetuate his myths and alternative facts. There has to be a way to break through their wall of ignorance, but then maybe that's a hopeless proposition.
12
Quid pro quo is not needed. The crime is in the ask.
21
Bottom line America. There is no way in heck that there will a free and fair election in 2020 if Trump is in office.
17
And what kind of gullible fool would believe Donald Trump??? Of course that's what he attempted to do.
7
Trump's pleas for help from Ukraine and China are a tacit acknowledgement that, just like in 2016, he cannot win an election on his own.
14
I THINK this commenter knows what he's talking about, but I'm not sure:
"Congress has no choice but to impeach."
The House "impeaches," and then the Senate holds a "trial." It's a two-step process. The first step -- impeachment by the House -- appears likely. But a conviction in the Senate? Won't happen.
I've long thought the Democrats should impeach Trump and then ask Senators to justify their predictable "no" votes. If I were a Senator, I'd have a hard time doing that, frankly. But the Republicans are handling this more astutely than I'd predicted: it doesn't look at all difficult for them to simply "mush" these qualitatively different allegations into the same "Russia collusion" mold we've been hearing for several years now. Maybe they shouldn't do that, but voters ARE very tired of this, and Senators know that.
This predictably will go nowhere. Trump will still be President next November (unless he dies by then, of course, in which case Mike Pence will be President). The Democratic Party should focus on voting him out. An unfinished impeachment proceeding will weaken him, but not enough. The Democratic Party needs more than that. What that "more" might be is unclear, but it's very clear that "more than impeachment" will be necessary.
5
I don't accept, at all, the arguments that there was "no quid pro quo."
But so what?
The Democratic Party has overplayed its hand. I used to think "Why not?" when I considered the many allegations about "Russian collusion" that have been bandied about for several years now, without a shred of supporting evidence (as Mueller reported). Now, though, I realize there IS a "Why not?" Trump is guilty as sin on this one, but voters (and Senators) look at this as just more of the same, in effect punishing Democrats for years of Russian-collusion claims. Though this allegation strikes me as qualitatively different -- much worse for Trump -- most voters consider this to be just "more of the same," the same refusal to accept the 2016 election results that we've been seeing for about three years now. In other words, though this one should go further than the "Russia collusion" allegations, it won't.
1
The Mueller report was full of shreds. Trump made the mistake of believing his own bogus 'total exoneration' claim about Mueller and then, the VERY next day, reasoning that now he could get away with anything, put the arm on Ukraine. And when you ask for an obviously corrupt favor at a time when you've suspended vital military aid for no apparent reason, you have defined a quid pro quo.
11
Trump's defense is that, as president, he is duty bound to ask foreign powers to investigate all corruption internationally.
The question a reporter needs to ask him, in the name of this crusade, is "Can you give us any examples, with supporting transcripts, of your asking for any investigation into other corruption, not relating to your political enemies, over the last few months?"
11
The list of crimes and misdemeanors is very long. Trump should be happy the focus is narrow.
10
"When the President ... is a conspirator with a foreign government, impeachment is an open and shut case."
And Trump almost certainly will be impeached by the House. But NOT convicted by the Senate. I think Trump is guilty as sin here, but voters remember very well the allegations of "Russian collusion" and tend to think this is just more of the same -- the same "sour grapes" over the 2016 election that we've been seeing ever since then. This situation is qualitatively different, but voters are too weary to draw fine distinctions, and the Republican Senators know that.
Remember: it takes a 2/3 Senate vote to remove a President from office. Even if that happens (unlikely), it will mean simply that Mike Pence is President. The Democrats should focus on the 2020 election. An unfinished impeachment proceeding against Trump may improve their election odds, but the election should be their focus in any case.
5
Is there anyone in America naive enough to think Trump was going, to tell the truth about this? The Trump who has told thousands of lies is going to turn over a new leaf? Trump is not the problem. the problem is no one on the Right seems to care. The problem for the country is that when the party out of power gets the power. What goes around comes around.
13
The framers of the Constitution when citing "high crimes and misdemeanors" meant in today's language, Big stuff and Small stuff. Congress doesn't need Big Stuff to impeach. Trump has met the threshold many times over.
9
And this is why Trump is not fit for the office: it does not even register that (1) pressuring any country to do 'Some X' could be considered problematic, and (2) were he to comprehend it, he still would not care.
Because he's President, and that means he's Above the Law.
Time to pop that ego and vacate the 'throne'.
10
Can we "get real" for just a moment here?
"Trump doesn't seem to have been too concerned with "Corruption" until Biden became a front-running competitor ... "
Biden was NEVER really a serious competitor (and he sure won't be going forward, even if he WAS). Sanders' heart attack establishes the same thing about him. The nomination was ALWAYS going to Warren, who will pick up nearly all of Sanders' supporters and many of Biden's as well (all of them, after the Democratic convention next summer). For better or worse, Warren is the horse the Democrats will ride. Whether that horse can beat the Trump horse or the Pence horse remains to be seen, but in any event the Warren horse is the one that the Democrats will ride.
3
All one has to do is read the texts. It’s clear from these that Trump was soliciting foreign interference in a US election, and doing so in exchange for favors like military aid. He was even warned by his aides! This isn’t just improper and illegal, it seriously undermines the national security of the US and imperils our constitutional democracy. Congress has no choice but to impeach. Otherwise the US government will be open for the highest international bidder
9
You see? There’s no clear evidence of quid pro quo. The current Man in Office knows what he’s doing.
There’s no line connecting the dots. Mr. Sondland was also careful about this.
And the thing is just too nebulous. The Man is going to get away with saying he has a right and a duty to investigate corruption in any country receiving US aid.
This is why no Republicans are budging. It’s not dangerous to them either way. There’s no danger of appearing to support a President in violating the constitution, and I f it starts to look really bad, they can claim they were convinced it was a legitimate corruption investigation.
Meanwhile, the drumbeat of populist support for the Man in Office gets louder as the hysteria of the Dems builds steam.
He wins again. Very few grasp the proportion of this Man’s genius for self-promotion. This whole thing has made him the most riveting figure in the Oval Office since Nixon. But he’s smarter than Nixon. Not as well educated, but smarter. He won’t get caught. Not this time.
He never will, probably. Eventually, folks will just get tired and bored of it all, as they realize none of it actually helps them, and that will be the end.
He will make his final exit from the stage of history, one of that pageant’s most garish, vulgar figures, and will be the face on the covers of books chronicling the decline of America.
6
Quid Pro Quo from Trump’s lips.
The July-25th phone transcripts plainly show that Trump made a "this for that" offer or quid pro quo to President Selenskyy of Ukraine. On that phone call President Zelenskyy states "I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense".
Trump's responds..."I would like you to do us a favor though", especially the word "though", means Trump wants something in exchange for providing U.S. military aid in defense of Ukraine and Trump goes on to say he wants investigations into the origin of the Mueller Report and Bidens.
Trump clearly made a "this for that" statement, which is a quid pro quo. Trump's request is to undermine the U.S. Intelligence Agencies finding that Russia interfered with the 2016 Presidential Election and to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Democratic front runner, Joe Biden, prior to the 2020 Presidential Election.
Trump's own words justify impeachment.
8
In Helsinki last year, Trump openly considered Putin's "incredible offer" to interrogate American citizens for him. Now he's on video asking Ukraine and China to do his dirty work, again violating our national sovereignty and national security.
Who needs a quid pro quo when you have a President committing crimes against Americans in plain view?
14
Being the president of the USA, is quid pro, from the get go.
3
Why would anyone expect Trump to realize that he has done anything wrong. Trump doesn’t understand the Constitution. He doesn’t seem to understand the position he occupies. He doesn’t understand the Country is not one of his failed businesses. And he doesn’t understand this is turning into a Bad Reality show. Although he is getting everyone to tune in. In his own mind he really doesn’t understand or believe he has done anything wrong...because he does not have the ability to understand . Again....the definition of his DSM4 diagnosis entails a break with reality. I repeat ....the merely obvious should suffice....the absurdly obvious should not be necessary. Next steps ?
11
The claim that there was, in reality, no quid pro quo is believable for four reasons:
1- Trump hates Ukraine because he believes in crazy conspiracy theories that Ukraine interfered in the election in favour of Clinton.
2- He loves Putin and would be quite happy to have Russia annex Ukraine, which will make Putin a winner.
3- Defending Ukraine from Russia was OBAMA’S policy. Whatever Obama did, Trump must destroy.
4- Consequently, Trump never had any intention of giving Ukraine any military aid or selling it weapons. He was just *pretending* there was a quid pro quo until Ukraine delivered the goods on Biden. Then he would have withheld the weapons anyway under the justification that “they tried to take me down”.
4
I have my doubts that "doubts" are the same as proof.
4
Trump should start an investigation into exactly who instructed him to publicly perform an overt act of obstruction on international news by soliciting China to join him in a conspiracy to collect opposition information on Trump's political opponent.
Finding this person would create a perfect opportunity for Trump to use his ancestors' Nuremberg defense of "merely following orders" by making those statements.
Unfortunately it didn't work very well for those Germans commanders back in 1945 and 1946, but maybe it could work a little better for this German Commander in Chief in 2019... the one who claims that his Bronx-born father was born in a 'wonderful part of Germany.'
10
Trump doesn't seem to have been too concerned with "Corruption" until Biden became a front-running competitor for his job
10
Democrats still grasping for anything against Trump while Trump is gaining more momentum for a repeat in 2020
5
@NYC Dwel...Democrats are not grasping. An occasional apple or two has become a fruit basket of high crimes and many misdemeanors (no offense to apples intended).
2
The President of the United States doesn’t appear to know what is a conflict of interest. Any honorable person would recuse themselves from an investigation of a political opponent.
A party that got the courts to declare monetary contributions speech, and who got corporations declared as people, can not connect the dots on quid pro quo on campaign violations or extortion based on the withholding of aid to the Ukrainians and additionally refusing to even meet with them without announcing an investigation.
3
Let's imagine for a moment that Charlie Manson's attorneys had employed the trump defense strategy. What might that case have looked like?
Well, first Charlie would have denied he had anything to do with those murders. After that wasn't working, he would have accused the prosecutor of being a murderer. And, when that didn't seem to be working, he would have argued that, sure he had a hand in the murders, but he had every right to do so and, further, it's not really a crime.
15
Trump can deny all he wants. He may gaslight to his heart's content. He can hold his racist hate-filled rallies.
But, nothing will erase the fact he is a serial liar, a known con-artist and grifter and we, well most of us, would never accept any utterance from Trump as truthful.
So, he can protest all he wants there was no quid pro quo. His past actions say otherwise-along with most of what we are hearing from the "corrupt press" reporting on a very corrupt individual called Mr. President.
26
"I was going after Corruption "
Like most readers , I Imagine Trump did not have to far ...
Like a full length mirror for starters ...!
Funny thing , if Trump was aware of Biden and the hear say tales ,for a number of years ..why did he not go straight for an inquiry after coming to power rather then waiting nearly 2 and 3/4 years to announce his so called Crusade against corruption ??
17
Remember when Trimp was sworn in and refused the ethics training given to every prior president? I remember he said he did not need the briefing because he had attended very good colleges as all of his family and staff had gone to excellent schools. Implying that he and his posse always knew right from wrong.
So why didn't he say to leaders from China and Ukraine...."I'm so concerned with corruption in your country that I urge sweping investigations and reform. Why don't you start with looking into what I know best-...all the interntional hotel owners or those entertaining buiding hotels in your country?
Ha!
12
First Trump extorts an investigation. Then he'll demand that it leads to "conviction"? ..... that any nation on the globe MUST lie for him, just like Fox News, Hannity and Republicans do?
The emails include the comment from Mr. Taylor, what if the investigation is announced by Ukraine, but the US weapons are still not delivered? What if Trump trickles them out? Trump thinks he is King if the world, and that he can corrupt the entire globe to serve him.
2
So this is what diplomats do? And Kurt Volker represents the US diplomatic corps for the John McCain Institute? Why is Volker so willing to act immorally, so readily? It's disgusting.
11
@Maureen,
Which is exactly why Volker abruptly resigned, he didn’t want to be the one Trump throws under the bus. Volker is just the start of the tsunami of incriminating facts, and the people that will tell all. And like Nixon’s people, those that stood to spend the most time in federal lock up, were the ones that told all, in an attempt to diminish the length of time they would have to spend in prison. Just like those who were caught up in Trumps campaign accepting help from the Russians, (wait, I’m sorry, that meeting with the Russians was about the Trumps concern about children being adopted) and if you believe that, I have an international orange bridge to sell you. Manafort thought that he wouldn’t be going to prison so he decided to hang his hat on his buddy Trump to “Pardon” him. He’s now found out that holding out for a pardon just got him more time.
5
trump doesn't think it's a quid pro quo because it's clearly from a language he doesn't understand.
7
@Jamila Kisses
Trump has a hard time with English, qid pro quo is Latin, and Trump probably think it’s cool to say. His supporters have discovered a new phrase, even though they have zero idea what it means.
Everybody’s seen The Godfather. We know the Don never really “asks”, he just infers what he expects and the doers do.
It’s called “quid pro quo”.
5
Timing is everything. Why is Mr Trump, the day after Republican Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller told the world he (DJT)was not subject to criminal prosecution despite the laundry list of crimes, taking time to focus on protecting the US and the world from corrupt efforts of the children of prominent politicians - think Ivanka, Jared, and Jr. who were not qualified for their respective positions.
Just after Republican Bill Barr read from the Trump playbook, his comical (in the tragic sense) take on the Mueller Report, DJT dials up anyone who will answer the phone to try to throw dirt on the Bidens.
As a life-long Republican, if a Dem had done what DJT had proudly done, break US election law so the leading Republican could be falsely accused of nothing - my fellow Republicans would be apoplectic
Had DJT really wanted to do anything but get foreign governments involved in our election to help him win, he would have started this in 2017. A credible president would try to win over voters in the US and not cheat. Not sure DJT is capable of winning without cheating, again.
7
Why are Trump supporters screaming? Wasn’t it just last week they were telling us all this is just going to guarantee Trump’s reelection?
14
We are supposed to believe that dangling US taxpayer money in front of a weak government desperate for US support in exchange for dirt on Trump's political opponents is just normal " oppo research ". We are also asked to accept that tactic as a permanent part of our political culture, because if it is o.k. for Trump, it is also o.k. for all of his successors. Are we ready for that ?
14
@Helmut Wallenfels
Not to mention, we have an internationally recognized law enforcement arm, that does the investigating, we call them the FBI. But now that Trump has effectively diminished our intelligence arm, and our law enforcement arm in the eyes of his cult. So why would they believe anything the FBI produces, since according to Trump, they are corrupt. But then again everyone is corrupt except for Trump, at least in his mind. But then again, Trumps a legend in his own small mind.
I do have to give Trump some credit for the funniest lie a president ever told. And that is, that he was secretly working to end the democrats corruption. Except, there’s an old saying about that, “Clean your own doorstep before you clean mine”. Or “He who lives in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”.
2
I realize this is jumping ahead a bit, but it does seem likely that the articles of Impeachment that will surely be drawn up after this investigation will be quite convincing, though likely not to Trump's base. However, it's the Independents and those on the fence Republicans worry about when it comes to swing states and the growing body of "official" evidence against Trump.
Given Republican support for Trump in the face of clear facts that push others the opposite direction, I have to wonder if Mitch M. will actually do the opposite of what people expect him to do here (have a trial but make it very fast / vote not to impeach) and simply draw this out until the election?
So far as I know, there is no prescribed timeline within which a trial must be held. Agreeing to hold a trial, but refusing to do so "so close to an election" (ah, memories) might be to Republicans advantage if they believe they are at risk of the voting to impeach. If Republicans loose their majority in the election they can try to save face with American for the next election by impeaching before they leave office; if the do not, they can save face with Trump supporters by voting not to impeach in the "speedy" trial we expected them to have to begin with.
2
@txpacotaco
Unfortunately we are worrying about amoral people to become moral. Our society should work such that there is enough ethical morality and concern for each others well being that the Republicans would have to do the right thing even though their voters want otherwise against their own well being.
It is their job to go to their constituents and explain this is why must impeach the president for actions that put all of us at risk. That is called moral leadership and it is the hard choice that could cost you your job. But that is what they should do if they had any ethical morality.
Unfortunately they instead go to the white house to get their marching orders to say and do like a robot. And many of these orders are driven by Fox News which has deep reach into this administration. There is nearly no separation between Fox News and this administration. This is the corruption that has poisoned our society and set us against each other.
It is their moral duty to do the right thing in spite of politics. When Newt went onto Fox news and said to start substituting the word coop for impeachment nearly every right winger network started doing so. Everyone of the networks that did so is a propaganda network by listening to a politician in broad daylight promote destroying the rule of law. They didn't report the truth they instead reported a way to attack it directly from Newt Gingrich without even critiquing it and mock such a concept of being told what to say.
4
Trump is such a liar that he wouldn't know 5 minutes later whether or not there was a quid pro quo. In fact he probably is too uneducated to know the meaning of quid pro quo. How anyone, even Republicans, can continue to believe that he is good for them or for the country is totally incomprehensible. How can anyone still supporting Trump ever look at himself in a mirror. There is no limit to the shamelessness of the Republicans in Congress still trying to explain away Trump's behavior as acceptable for anyone, and especially not for the president of the United States.
10
That Trump denies quid pro quo is par for the course. He denies that he said what he has just said. He denies sexual harassment or relations while he is paying hush money for same. He denies what is in everybody's eyes and ears. His denial should not be news,but only evidence of his total absence of shame.
5
It’s time for the trump administration to rel aww ALL the requested documents and come clean with the American peoples..ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!
3
Trump has the GOP in his hands. He has weapons like Fox News and MCConnell to keep him safe. He is also very good with the twisted word which makes it great for hiding treason in plain sight. Quid pro quo? Come on Trump say “ Feci eum”.
Translation...I did it. And “ que curat”...who cares! because many Americans think exactly that way. What a tragedy for our once great country.
4
When the President of the United States is a conspirator with a foreign government, impeachment is an open and shut case.
7
"... In an interview, Sen. Ron Johnson (R., Wis.) said he learned of a potential quid pro quo from the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, who told him that aid to Ukraine was tied to the desire by Mr. Trump and his allies to have Kyiv undertake investigations that the president has sought. ..."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-administration-used-potential-meeting-to-pressure-ukraine-on-biden-texts-indicate-11570205661
3
I've learned to read NYT's stories from the bottom up because that's often where the important facts are buried. The fact that Ambassador Sondland emphatically stated "The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo’s of any kind." should have been in first paragraph not one of the last.
3
@James Massey
Right, if Sondland had any credibility.
Republican Senator Ron Johnson told the WSJ on Friday that Sondland had already admitted the quid pro quo to him. Also, from the texts between Ambassador Taylor and Sondland on Sep 1 and Sep 9 we can clearly infer that the quid pro quo existed; Sondland just didn't want it in writing.
4
@James Massey,
It seems you found the one fact you were looking for to fit the narrative. Funny thing about Trumps assertion of no qid pro quo, it’s a statement similar to what an attorney says, before he walks into court only to find out he was sadly mistaken. It’s not up to Trump to determine what is or isn’t qid pro quo.
3
@James Massey Of course he denies it. He lies about everything! But the facts speak for themselves
3
Headline might read: "Trump Caught Secretly Colluding with Ukraine and Then Seeks Openly to Collude with China; Ukraine Aides Were Worried Beforehand. Who cares what a liar denies?
4
The democrats' plan to come to a conclusion as quickly as possible is so wrong. This Trump's call to Zelensky is not nearly enough to topple him, which will give the Senate an easy excuse to hand him a victory...right before the election. We must use these investigations to gather the thousands of ways he has betrayed his country and his office. If the Senate were to clear him, despite such a mountain of evidence, they will reveal themselves to be the greedy, selfish craven cowards that they are. Not likely. They'll be jumping ship as fast as their tiny legs can scurry.
2
An accused criminal cannot ask their lawful accusers how to proceed their investigation. Mr. President, unlike you and your GOP enablers who believe that government is for and by your puppeteers, the GOP plutocrats, we are a nation of laws with a successful Jeffersonian democracy. Maybe you forgot!
2
After reading numerous articles from various outlets, I pray the NYT does not allow itself to be used to muddy the proverbial waters by using phrasing like "Envoys had their doubts..." Donald Trump et. al are already framing the quid pro quo as a "nothing-burger" because he didn't explicitly say "You have to get dirt on Biden before I give you the money..."
But. He. Did. Trump stated explicitly: "I would like you to do us a favor [though],..." That "though" that is,-
"however...in exchange for..." is as explicitly quid pro quo as one can get.
I hope Democrats keep their eyes on the prize and not play into the word salad. Or get bogged down in narrowly defining this as a violation of campaign contributions: This is treason.
3
What do you think Trump told Putin after the Zelensky call?
We need to get a transcript (not a summary) of Trump's call to Putin just after he spoke with Zelensky.
3
When one reads the NYTimes provided email chain between U.S. and Ukrainian Officials, any arguments about "the quid pro quo" are quite "moat".
5
Interesting that two people can watch the same incident but come away with two different conclusions.
It happens all the time and it's the reason we have so many disputes, legal battles and wealthy attorneys.
Trump's extended "press conference" before he parted on his helicopter today is a "perfect" example.
I see him in control of the crowd. peppering away with his simple points over and over. He's not interested in the truth .
Trump tells the "people" the same thing over and over. Continue that long enough and eventually they start to believe him.
This is the old "Hitler maneuver" and it works if you have the stamina to continue with it for a prolonged period and if you gain and hold the interest of average people.
Trump is the "perfect" example of this method.
Because of senate rules, it's very doubtful that Trump will be removed from office even if he is impeached in the house of representatives.
Trump knows how to win. The truth means nothing to him and if the economy holds up well and jobs continue to pay a little more, there is a pretty good chance that Trump can win again
I was on to his ugly dirty tricks ever since he started his "birther stories" about Obama way back in 2011 as he was considering a run for the presidency against Obama.
Trump is bad news. Unfortunately, he remains strong, unafraid and a possible winner in our still young, untested society built on money.
Don't underestimate Donald Trump. These are dangerous times.
2
Talking about quid pro quo, is there a reason why he is being so 'easy' about the North Koreans?
5
Mafia boss knows well the quid pro quo. No need to utter it. Speak softly like Don Corleone, be reasonable and it will be done. Giuliani is the consiglieri and foot soldier of Donald. Barr and Pompeo are expendable and collateral damage by Donald's and Don Corleone's standard.
2
Denial is not a river in Egypt.
3
So far we have four Pinnochios for Adam Schiff's completely fabricated account of the President's telephone conversation. This sort of performance is revolting to anyone who values the truth and due process. This may blow back badly on desperate Democrats.
2
“No quid pro quo” has about as much legal relevance as “no collusion.” It's the Republicans' fog machine.
5
“Heard from White House – assuming President Z convinces trump he will investigate / ‘get to the bottom of what happened’ in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington,” Mr. Volker wrote to Andrey Yermak, a top Ukrainian presidential adviser at 8:36 a.m. the morning of the phone call.
First, the violation of the law (52 USC 30121) happened when Trump said to Zelensky "I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it." Requesting "dirt" from a foreign national for use in an election is a black letter violation of the law. Under 52 USC §30121(a)(2), “(a) It shall be unlawful for- (2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.”
Second, even if a person representing the principal makes the request with the knowledge and at the direction of the principal, fault (and a violation of he law) would also attach, both to the representative and to the principal.
The quote given in the article makes 100% clear that Volker (Trump's representative) requested the "dirt' from Yermak (Zelensky's representative) as consideration for agreeing to a meeting between Trump and Zelensky.
That is classic contract law - I offer you X (a meeting you seek) in return for Y (the political "dirt" I seek), and you accept the offer.
When two people agree to a deal, each is giving the other "something if value."
4
Please stop covering trump’s lies, distractions and denials. Of course he is going to deny and deny and try to shift the narrative in his favor. Stop giving him the forum to spout lies.
5
Sounding reminiscent. "No quid pro!" ..."No collusion!"
5
So Trump's argument is he only going after corruption. A person whose whole life is based on corruption. It makes one head explode !
12
I could write about Trump's children and their use of their Daddy's position for personal gain. And I could write about the stupidity of Hunter Biden to abuse his father's position for financial gain. I would rather write that our government is now in a state of anarchy and that respect for the law has left the room. I cannot believe that the GOP line is that there is no proof of anything illegal that Trump has done. Well if the Justice Department is of the mind set that Trump cannot be indicted while he's President, then he can shoot someone on Fifth Avenue without being charged by law enforcement. And they know conviction in the Senate will be based on politics and not evidence.
I wish that someone would publish in this paper and elsewhere all the potential crimes Trump has committed starting with treason, sedition, lying to the FBI, campaign violations,extortion, tax fraud, money laundering etc.
11
The Times did publish a long list. That list should always be highly visible with additions always added with as much supported documentation in links such as links to relevant videos of him
2
@FrankG
Link, please?
And Times, make it a permalink on the front page of the web edition.
2
This is clear corruption at highest level. Trump and his cohorts are selling access to US Presidency to highest bidder or highest (personally) favorable actions.
It's pure evil corruption.
11
Trump has lost, talked himself out of being believed by his most ardent supporters.
Too many lies; too much video with clear audio. No one is misinterpreting his statements and very few are being fooled by his nonsense.
He wants dirt? Let's see his tax returns and his business financials? Let him cease and desist with the lawsuits against the House committees? There may be some very interesting dirt there.
He wants to "Make America Great Again"? Let him obey the rule of law.
The Chinese aren't afraid of Trump; neither are the North Koreans; nor the Saudis. The only folks who are afraid of Trump are the Republican national politicians.
The Democrats and the Independents are not afraid of Trump.
9
You know our country is in a mess when the FEC chair has to keep tweeting the law to all of the law makers regarding elections.
As for investigating corruption - ask Republicans the following question. When did you first hear of Joe Biden and his son Hunter involved in the Ukraine and what did you do at that very moment to investigate corruption?
Ask every single Republican member the question. People like Lindsay Graham were senators during the Obama years and why didn't Lindsay do something years ago?
When did Trump first hear of Biden's in the Ukraine and what did he do at that very moment to investigate corruption?
It sure seems like the concern came right around the time FOX News published their poll stating that the top three Democratic candidates could all easily beat Trump. It was ONLY after this point that we suddenly hear about corruption.
Start asking Lindsay to his face - When did you first hear of Hunter Biden working for a Ukrainian oil company and what did you do?
11
I, for one, am sick and tired of the chaos trump creates and the fiasco his presidency has turned into. Watching him in front of Finland's President was the final straw. He just needs to go. I have to believe the majority of Americans feel the same way. Enough is enough. Trump will try to cheat and use all kinds of foreign interference to get elected in 2020. That is why the 3 stooges are where they are at..... Barr, Guiliani and Pompeo
14
Proving a quid pro quo is not necessary for this to be abuse of power, corrupt, and an attempt to subvert the electoral process, all impeachable offenses. Please don't play into the idea that if quid pro quo is not proven, Trump is off the hook. Quid pro quo is simply icing on the impeachment cake.
8
Your headline does a disservice. “Quid pro quo” is not necessary for an impeachable offense. Putting it in the headline elevates it to “collusion” status. I happen to believe there was collusion and a quid pro quo, but headlines should not elevate the straw men that this administration keeps fielding
8
Trump is too ignorant to use a Latin phrase like “quid pro quo.” But he knows the word “favor,” which is a handy translation.
1
If it were in my power, I would sentence Trump to life at hard labor with no probation for the destruction of our country. I utterly despise him. He doesn't possess a single atom of decency.
9
@JSK
Thank you.
I feel the same way. I cannot find words strong enough to adequately describe my revulsion for him and his minnions.
He said what he did and did what he said.
Shakedown
Extortion
Coverup
Repeat
He is a Russian puppet.
He is compromised.
He is a threat to our democracy and our national security.
5
@JSK
He might not like you either. :)
It's not necessary to like the President, he can't please everybody.
The Democrats have nothing apparently tp offer the American voting public. This latest ridiculousness around impeachment is a reflection of a bankruptcy of any viable policy on their part.
2
There doesn't need to be a quid pro quo. The "high crime" (according to the Constitution and George Washington) was soliciting political assistance from a foreign entity. Even if Trump had been down on his knees with nothing to offer in return, it would have been wrong. The quid-pro-quo is a red herring supplied by his supporters to muddy the water.
214
@JimBob
Washington? You mean the politician who was famous for padding his expense reports to the Continental Congress? The slave owner who moved his slaves back and forth so he would not fall under rule that would have freed any? If you think he was not at the top of the 1 pc please take a look at that little place in Mt. Vernon. Foreign help? What percent of his troops were hired foreigners? 80 or 90 pc? Wasn't Ben Franklin tbe envoy sent to get help from the French for funds, troops and blockade? Speaking of personal conduct- Franklin's conduct with women in France makes Trump look like a cloistered monk.
3
@JimBob An optimist, could perceive Trump was seeking to exonerate a possible opposition candidate, a noble action. Seeking an honest investigation, all Trump was asking for, would surely remove any doubt about Biden bragging he demanded a prosecutor to be fired was connected to his sons profiteering was unethical or illegal. Trump still tends to think Democrats are honest people, at heart.
1
One day in my freshman year at Brooklyn Technical H.S. (1962-'63), while in the lunchroom during the period assigned 'therefor,' I asked James McNiff if I could see his copy of Vance Packard's "The Waste Makers" -- since, in our next class (English), a pre-scheduled book report was to test our reading of it.
I read the 'jacket.'
Then, seizing on the term "planned obsolescence," and the brief 'descriptive references' of it provided in 'jacket speak,' I filled the 56 minutes of English class and 'a good' 4 or 5 test-book pages with as many adjectives as I could 'muster' to the handful of nouns 'with jacket relevance' that I had just identified (while eating the bologna sandwich on white bread … with butter! ... that my much-more-Irish-than-I step-mother had bagged for me.
My 'work' earned (?) an 85. (James, having read the book, was very much annoyed at the lesser grade his report received.)
Is there a point coming? YES. (Sort of.)
trump has gotten away with rather more, on rather grander 'scales' his whole life. I pulled this one 'trick' -- and 'still' got thrown out of 'Tech' in the middle of my sophomore year.
When is trump gonna have to pay any price ... beyond the disgust he anywise and apparently suppresses when he looks in a mirror?
7
The scary part about Trump pressing Ukraine for non-existent dirt on the Bidens, as well as for other conspiracy-driven "intelligence," is that Ukraine just might "find" it to get what they need. Then what?
Truth isn't what it used to be...
4
What would you do if you were talking to the arms dealer who cut off your supply during your war with a superior power?
One of the most significant comments Mr. Zelensky made during his press meeting with Trump at the UN has not been noticed. Asked directly if he felt any pressure from Trump to investigate Biden, Zelensky said. “I — I’m sorry, I don’t want to be involved in Democratic, open, elections — elections of U.S.A.” It sounds like a candid expression of his true feeling which is remarkable because he was sitting next to Trump.
But Ukraine announced the investigation that Trump extorted.
Mr. Zelensky and Ukraine have my sympathy. I hope they will receive the support they deserve.
I also hope enough members of Congress are willing to do their duty to uphold the Constitution and convict Trump of high crimes.
5
Donald Trump is a criminal. He has solicited election aid from a foreign government, and it is out in the open for all to see.
Every single member of the House and Senate needs to go on record. Either we are a nation of laws, or we are a third-rate banana republic.
Impeachment in inherently a political process. Mr. Trump has never had, or sought, majority approval by the American people.
That said, if enough Americans represented by constituents in certain states and certain congressional districts approve of America becoming an authoritarian banana republic, then so be it. We had a nice run for 232 years as a Constitutional Republic. Welcome to the New Age.
===
My family has been here since before the American Revolution. My direct ancestor, Thomas Stone of Maryland, signed the Declaration of Independence.
I, for one, would like to know which one it is. Who are we, as We the People of the United States of America? Depending on the outcome, I will act accordingly.
6
In the end if comes down to whether you want the President of the United States to be in it for himself or for the nation.
7
If corruption in the Ukraine was truly a concern of Trump, the name Manafort would certainly have preceded any mention of the Bidens.
9
Gordon Sondland. He may have a lot of money, influence, and be an ambassador, but he discussed POTUS wanting the “deliverable”. Texting Bill Taylor back later, he declined to negate (with a simple “no”) that the aid was contingent upon the investigation (the “deliverable”) instead replying “call me”. That is where the intent becomes a question only Sondland can answer — why he declined to offer a simple “no” when asked about the quid pro quo. In later texts, it was clear he was made aware of the conflict of interest (election interference and political dirt) and stated his *opinion* that POTUS had been crystal clear. Why not a simple “no”? What isn’t crystal clear? “The plot thickens, frankly” that would be my response to Jim Jordan based on the argument I offered. His explanation would be welcome! America marches on...
6
Trump needs a translator at his Q and A's. Someone who will say things like - yeah, this is a bald-faced lie, or, this is something illegal he's doing and blaming on someone else, or, yeah this has no factual basis in reality, or, this is nonsense he got from a conspiracy website, or, he's just trying to sound coherent while his inner world is desperate, or, this is one of his old lies he's repeating over and over to try to make it sound believable, or, he's just trying to smear someone else to deflect attention from his corruption - etc etc etc.
5
@ Jim Sande
I would love to see a chyron run below all of his televised appearances pointing out lies, distractions, debunked conspiracies etc. It would save everyone a lot of time.
3
I hate to say - and I hope I’m wrong - in that no matter what Dems try to do or what Trump has done .... he’s not going to loose his job.
We should hope he doesn’t get re-elected as it will cause any ounce of credibility we have in the world will disappear ....
Ukraine President is as dirty as his predecessor that he took his seat over by promising his own people he will drain the swamp. He’s a movie actor of sort.
I can’t even imagine how Saudis have bought him .... the Russians had already before the elections.
I think we should just move on.
I am actually going to chuckle the day that China has no more use for the Trumps and they release all their dirt on Jared and Ivanka.
7
In the beginning of this fiasco I thought they said there were 8 phone calls to Ukraine. What happened to the other 7 or 70?
3
Where are the two senior advisors to the president in this matter, Jared and Ivanka?
Ever notice when the noise gets loud they disappear, running away like cockroaches when the kitchen light is turned on?
11
Al Pacino's stunning performance as Roy Cohn in Mike Nichol's fantastic film of Tony Kushner's "Angels in America" is basically all one needs to know about Trump's character and approach to life. Vile, self serving and deranged is basically it. Trump needs to go now!
6
It's no wonder that Trump couldn't accept that the conspiracy theories about the Bidens had been "completely debunked". He's utterly convinced that everyone is as corrupt as he is. Considering the sycophants who surround him, that's understandable.
9
Why should anyone believe that Trump is telling the truth?
6
Mr. Baker and his colleagues need to stop referring to the slime peddled by the president and his enablers as "conspiracy theories." They are conspiracy fictions/conspiracy fantasies. A theory has the possibility of being shown, now or at some later time as other facts become known or as other technology comes into being to allow us to explore something previously unable to be explored, to be true. There long were theories that said there were more planets in our solar system than we knew about, and lo and behold more sophisticated telescopy and other instrumentation allowed us to discover that to be true. But no matter how hard we look, or what new technoogy comes to be, we will never discover that biblical characters rode dinosaurs. Nor will we discover Hillary Clinton or the DNC's computer server in Ukraine. Nor will we find that Joseph Mifsud was spirited away from Italy by the CIA after "setting up George Papodopoulos" and shipping to a black site in Thailand. Let's stick to the facts, The president and his adherents traffic in these and other fantasies.
3
Naturally Trump & Pence deny "quid pro quo". Both share the belief that "quid pro quo" is an appetizer of deep fried calamari served with hot sauce.
Ignorance of the law remains NO excuse. Lock them up!
7
@Jim
Funny, funny.
Thanks for explaining!
1
This is absolutely disgusting. This is not America. We've made plenty of stupid mistakes, but the sheer vileness of this operation is literally sickening. This so-called president infects everyone he comes in contract with. Previously decent civil servants become extortionist henchnen. Even the Ukranian victims are turned into supplicating cowards. May God protect the whistleblower. Is he the only person with integrity and courage?
5
Anyone who gives credence to denials from a demonstrated pathological liar needs her or his head examined.
6
He has no credibility. It doesn't matter what he says, he is a pathological liar.
6
How stupid does he think people are?
I mean a big powerful country withholds military aid to a country at the mercy of Russia...and then asks for a favour of the Ukrainian president immediately after talking the aid. I mean come on...this isin't even code it's brazen.
5
Why are we even asking whether it was a quid pro quo? The law says that even SOLICITING (i.e. asking for) campaign assistance from a foreign power is illegal.
7
@Lord Melonhead
It's a way to obfuscate the central theme of the charge.
I think the last impeachment hearing we had in this country,they spent an enormous amount of time on what
was meant by "is".
1
@Lord Melonhead Because it was not necessarily campaign assistance Trump was asking for. That is the Republican sentiment.
There is ALWAYS a quid pro quo when a small country is dealing with a large ally, which has all the nukes - especially the US.
The relationship itself s the quid pro quo.
Corruption is in part due to an improper dependence.
But the trouble is the improper dependence in most cases cannot be avoidable.
6
@EC
It is one thing to ask for a favor, and to have it reciprocated. If it isn't, you curtail whatever relationship you have with them.
But it is entirely another thing to take away something critically important, that was duly and legally approved and promised, to be used as potential leverage, days before pressing repeatedly for an illegal action to be performed.
Extortion is extortion---and a crime.
3
Three questions: Why is it so difficult to determine if the President has the right to investigate any member of the House or Senate? If Joe Biden was suspected of any wrong doing, who should, or did, investigate? Was Trump really interested finding corruption, or is the truth that simply weaponizing an investigation of his opponents was the true end game? In Trumps world, the truth of any investigation is secondary... Simply making a plausible accusation of wrong doing by his opponents to his base, and for Fox News cable subscriber consumption.... That will do.
3
Quid pro quo is not necessary. The use of Giuliani, his personal, non governmental employee, makes trump’s request of Ukrainian involvement in investigating a US national who happens to be a direct political rival a clear abuse of power. Plain and simple, the quid pro quo will simply be the cherry on the cake, but it isn’t necessary to demonstrate that an impeachable offense has been committed. The dems cannot fall for the same kind of semantic tricks that allowed Bill Clinton to stall. Impeach and in the discovery of additional evidence-incontrovertible evidence that the public will see, that republican senators will not be able to dodge, convict in the senate.
4
if rudy was there representing the USA he is violating bribery rules & goes to jail.
if rudy represented don the con then they both go to jail.
win win
1
It seems increasingly clear that given Trump's (and the Republican Party's) contempt for the rule of law and basic human decency, that the current Constitutional crisis will not be solved within the bounds of normal legal or legislative processes. Trump and his acolytes will take any and every step within the reach of his audacious and nihlistic thought processes to continue his Presidency. As his public rhetoric makes obvious, he is not constrained by our democratic values averse to the violent exercise of political power. He is acutely aware that the unprecedented prerogatives he has declared for his Presidency provides his only chance to avoid prosecution and the disgrace of a prison term extending beyond his probable longevity. His ever growing circle of co-conspirators are similarly invested in maintaining their stranglehold on our society. Please, anyone that can project a resolution that preserves our accustomed comfort & security and simultaneously a passable democracy, show us the way.
8
I did not donate to Trump's campaign when I filed my tax returns, I have not donated to Trump's campaign by paying my taxes. How dare he use taxpayer's money to advance his political campaign. How about Biden open an investigation into 45's kids and son-in-law. Or tell the Russians and the Chinese that when he (Biden) wins he'll lift the tarrifs and sanctions. Has the FEC filed a complaint against the Trump Campaign?
7
Trump keeps saying what he did was normal. If it was so normal, why did they hide the transcript in a super-secret server location? How many other "normal" conversations are stashed in that server?
10
In the real world, a "deliverable" is the product produced in an agreement. If this isn't quid pro quo, then nothing is. I believe it should be hammered home daily.
8
Soon Donald will collect protection insurance from his base, the Republicans and the so called red states. I foresee Jared collecting the security fees.
2
Trump likes to assert that he possesses "absolute rights" because he wants to be an absolute monarch.
5
First, the transcript released by trump officials, of the July 25th call is an edited version. It is not the original transcript. The original transcript, and any possible recordings, were put under "Code Word" protection by trump himself, as a national secret. This alone informs us that the actual transcript had seriously incriminating information, that it was protected to such an extent (it will remain "hidden" for 25 years). Since the released (edited) transcript does not show the eight (8) times that trump requested the Ukranian president, we know it is an unreliable and unrealistic replica.
Second, a "Quid pro quo" request does not require a formal statement of the "arrangement" between the parties. In most such incidents, the expectations are subtle and implied, and both parties know very well that one expects the other to do their bidding, in return for favors.
The Ukrainian president knew his government was relying on critically needed military funding from the U.S., to help stave advances from Russian forces. The Ukranian president knew that trump had the power to halt or deny that funding. The Ukranian president knew that trump was forcefully suggesting (eight times!) for him to do something untoward - and possibly illegal -- interfere in the U.S. elections and to manufacture "dirt" on the Bidens.
There's something very rotten in trump-world.
6
@IN
The original transcript was filed under "Code Word," right next to his income tax returns.
1
He repeats "no collusion" over and over, like Rain Man, and then almost immediately invites collusion with Ukraine. It's beyond bizarre.
8
@Delta
Yeah, but it's only a favor--you know, like borrowing a cup of sugar from your neighbor...
Quid pro quo or not, Giuliani is Trump’s PERSONAL attorney, not a representative of the US government. His involvement makes clear that these efforts were intended to benefit Trump’s personal agenda and political gain.
He’s put considerably more effort into investigating a widely debunked theory about Biden than he has about the blatant murder of Kashoggi and the involvement of MBS.
27
@EBD The quid pro quo goes far beyond Guiliani
3
I agree with the comment made by Rep. Gerry Connolly (D Virginia) on Chris Hayes’ MSNBC “All In” broadcast, “I think we should call this what it is, if the Republicans don’t want to call it ‘quid pro quo’, no problem, it’s extortion. And extortion is not only morally wrong and an abuse of office, it’s illegal.”
6
Having just read the texts and explanations, I just want to say one thing: Bill Taylor is a hero.
21
We should be asking whether Trump and his cronies engaged in coercion, not quid pro quo. This is a crucial nuance, since - in both Congress and in the court of public opinion - it may be challenging for the Democrats to unequivocally prove that the Ukrainian government agreed to dig up dirt on the Bidens in exchange for a favor with Trump. On the other hand, if coercion were the specific accusation, then the burden would effectively fall on Trump to disprove that he had not intentionally and conditionally withheld money and access from the Ukrainians. If Trump weasels out of this mess and escapes impeachment, and is eventually re-elected, it will not be the first time his team has used a semantic loophole to score an enormous victory. Trump's opponents should not have allowed themselves to fall into this "quid pro quo" trap, but alas, this is exactly what they are doing.
7
Quid pro quo doesn’t matter. What we now know is that whomever the democratic nominee may be he will request that foreign governments aid his campaign by manufacturing illegality on his behalf. If you don’t stop him there is guaranteed to be foreign interference in the election, arranged for by the president.
10
Quid pro quo, or no quid pro quo? That is the question:
Whether 'tis more convincing in the Republicans’ mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous solicitation,
Or to take arms against a sea of extortion
And by opposing end them. To accept — to impeach,
Evermore; and by a conviction to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That that cause our suffering: tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To impeach, to convict;
To convict, perchance to dream—
(with sincere apologies to Shakespeare and Hamlet)
8
Imagine what would happen if every American gave one dollar to the democratic campaign to support the Presidential candidate chosen to run against him. Is it worth a dollar to get him out? This would raise millions from regular patriotic Americans
1
The power of the U.S. presidency over matters of grave importance to other nations is sufficient to constitute threat and extortion when deployed the U.S. President abuses this power in service to his own greed and ego. This is the impeachable abuse of power in question.
10
House committee chairmen,
Work swift and sure—
That Trump be exposed and removed—
And democracy endure.
12
Biden is not even a reasonable potential candidate for the Democratic Nomination - Probably never was - He is not yet a political opponent and he and his son's roll in Ukraine should not be swept under the rug --
The US should not put money into the hands of a corrupt, abusive government then have it swept under the rug; even if it involves an old, tired, failed politician and his son..
Please do your homework. Everything Biden did as VP in regards to Ukraine was part of official US policy -open for all to see - and with international alignment. Again open for all to see. Not shady secret conversations that have nothing to do with official policy. Have we already forgotten how an open democratic society works?
10
@Samuel Tyuluman
Delusion, from deplorables. Can it be passed of as just mental illness, or is it more sinister?
1
The title of this piece should have been, "Trump Denies Quid Pro Quo for Ukraine but also Confessed to it on Live Television."
There is no longer any doubt here.
12
Sondland's reply from 9/9 "The President made crystal clear etc. etc."might have been phrased by a lawyer who knew that this message could be dangerous.
This was written by somebody who sought to blur the evidence knowing that the President never makes things like that crystal clear.
5
Everybody with a brain and conscience knows that Trump tied American aid to Ukraine to Ukraine helping Trump get dirt on Biden.
It's way past time for the House to subpoena all original transcripts and recordings of Trump's calls with Putin, Ukraine, Kim Jong Un, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and bin Salman.
It's way past time for the House to start holding Pompeo and others who refuse to cooperate with investigations in contempt of Congress, and throw them in jail for it.
If any of us regular folks (or "the peasants" as our ruling elite call us) refused to appear in court or comply with subpoenas, we'd be jailed immediately.
Chelsea Manning is still in jail, and being fined so much money that she'll never financially recover, for refusing to testify falsely against Assange.
11
There was obviously quid pro quo. Of course Trump denies it but we can all see it in our own eyes in his telephone call to Zelinsky. But you don't need to prove a quid pro quo to impeach him. It is illegal just to ask another country for dirt on a political rival. And to withhold military aid while Russia is literally taking their land and killing their people, is just beyond the pale. Trump is abusing this country and our allies to stay in power and he must be stopped.
7
Completely agree that a quid pro quo is not necessary for Trump’s actions to be worthy of impeachment, but really, is there a scintilla of doubt that there was one here? The entire pre July 25th diplomatic efforts, both on the books through Volker, Sondland and Taylor, and off the books with Giuliani et al, was to ensure that the Ukrainians understood perfectly what was at stake: both “security assistance” and the legitimization of Zelensky with a White House visit. It is crystal clear and it is treason. Trump and his henchmen made no bones about the fact that the national interest of the United States, ie financially and militarily supporting the Ukraine against Russian aggression, would be subverted for Trump’s personal and very political gain. They should all be in jail.
6
"Trump Denies Quid Pro Quo for Ukraine"
That's because Trump thinks it's his "absolute right" to decide what the truth is, never mind the facts. He is the president after all.
5
The Trump quid pro quo is flashing warning signals so bright that our entire hemisphere can clearly see it. Just saying there is none despite real evidence to the contrary only works with the fools who are not bright enough to see the reality. His base of course, but I have to imagine that at least a few of the smarter ones are at the very least doubting him.
5
@Zed18
But his supporters, not bright or bright don't care what he does wrong, they will still support him
2
After a lifetime of shady dealings, Trump's instincts for speaking ambivalently but conveying his meaning clearly are well-honed. What's the old mob code for soliciting a murder? "Do you paint houses?" Sounds harmless unless you understand the context and track what happens after such questions are asked. Remember some of the dialogue used in the Godfather films? "I made him an offer he couldn't refuse." So and so "sleeps with the fishes." Mario Puzo was a better writer than Trump has at his disposal, but the point remains that even as ham-fisted as Trump is, he knows how to talk like the phone is tapped.
That's how Trump communicates, and rather than the art of the deal, it's more like the art of not saying anything that could get you indicted. Trump's been crooked so long this kind of evasive rhetoric and not-so-subtle-arm-twisting is second nature to him. This way, if laws are broken and someone has to take the fall for the boss, Trump can claim his minions misinterpreted his crystal clear but vaguely worded intentions. I don't have any respect at all for the man, but for a dumb guy he's pretty clever - and he has shown excellent survival instincts - so far. Good luck Congress!
8
I feel sick to my stomach reading this. It’s his duty to investigate corruption and withhold hundreds of millions when it involves his chief rival in the election. Since when do presidents start and lead investigations in foreign countries. Bizarre.
4
i am tired of all this constant commotion in DC
let get rid of it all by any means possible
so as a member of the USA public-at-large
i don't have to endure
this interminable upset, confusion, and outrage
5
Dear Trump supporters,
You elected Mr. Trump to shake up the system. To "drain the swamp." For "deconstruction of the administrative state." The rest of us get that. You are frustrated with the status quo of both parties and the Washington establishment.
That said, Mr. Trump needs to color between the lines. In fact, he took an oath of office as president to do just that, to uphold the U.S. Constitution. It is possible to be a disruptor and still play by the rules.
The problem is that Mr. Trump refuses to play by the rules. Those rules include the Constitution and the Rule of Law, the very foundations of the American system of government and jurisprudence that every prior president (on any point of the spectrum from conservative to liberal) agreed to respect and uphold. Those basic tenets are the glue that hold us together as a nation.
If you abandon that, then you are -- by definition -- an Anarchist.
If you are an Anarchist who wishes to defy the Constitution and overthrow the American government, you are a Traitor, who is guilty of Treason.
Look in the mirror. Think long and hard about what you believe in.
8
Trump will never be impeached. He knows he has the Senate and the Supreme Court behind him. He will laugh at the people's face and refuse to go, to concede in 2020 or whatever the law would force him to do. There is no law anymore just his will and the republican's cowardice and greed.
It's over. Goodby America.
2
He keeps repeating 'I did nothing wrong!' then proceeds to tell us exactly what he did wrong, and what he maybe plans to do wrong (illegal, unethical, treasonous, immoral, etc.) in the future!! How is this not nonsensical?? Why does no one successfully call him out on this? I have not heard any journalist or politician ask this specific question. But he wouldn't answer it, of course.
3
It’s simple and the media & dems are not making the point well: if general corruption was the issue, why keep specifically naming only Biden & son?
4
To people who argue Trump's conversation to leverage an investigation against a political rival and a past VP is no big deal, I say beware. If this becomes approved culture in the White House today, it will only get worse for future generations. We need to draw a clear line right now, for our kids.
10
Trump's continuing public statements are enough for me. If our country is to remain free, we must clearly resist any efforts to use foreign countries to influence our elections.. That means impeachment as soon as possible and removal from office. I would hope there might be criminal indictments as well.
7
Frankly, let's encourage more investigation. Stop worrying that just because Trump has already committed multiple crimes and self-impeached, that there is some downside to exposing even more incriminating evidence. Frankly, the goal is not to get an impeachment vote in the House (that is all but guaranteed) but to put pressure on the Senate. At some point, Senate Republicans will tire of denying what they know is true. Let's hope that doesn't take too long.
6
The thing that this process has taught me is that the law and the truth are at best perpendicular. If one of them had to do with the other, the senate would already be preparing to remove Trump from office because he is clearly guilty. Republicans who continue to stand behind this president risk more than their political careers, they risk the inevitable judgment of history, which will not be kind.
10
At this point, it is not even necessary for Trump to solicit help from foreign countries against his Democratic adversaries.
Any country looking to curry favor with Trump will by now have realized that all they need to do is dig up/manufacture something to get in his good graces. (That, or book a sufficient number of rooms at his hotels and golf courses, or flatter him about how great and wonderful he is.)
He has totally corrupted the American government. Any honest successor will have a tremendous task ahead of him or her in order to repair the damage.
13
Does it seem odd to anyone else that the minute the notion of holding back aid is raised, the response is "let's stop texting" by one of the participants?
13
No collusion. No Obstruction.
Now....
No Quid Pro Quo.
If you scream it loud enough and often enough the message seeps through and eventually connects.
He will skate unscathed once again.
That said, the process must proceed forward.
4
Richard Nixon famously said, "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."
Donald Trump and the Trump Republicans have updated that sentiment. "Well, when a Republican does it, that means that it is not illegal. But if a Democrat does it, that means it is high treason."
My, how far we've fallen.
11
@MidtownATL
It’s not the America we used to know and were proud of
2
Whenever someone with power over another asks for a favor in the same conversation as a discussion on what the more powerful party can do for the lesser party (in this case aid in the fight against Russia) it is clearly coercion and well beyond a quid-pro-quo.
Whenever someone says - let's not discuss this further via txt, you can presume they know what they are saying is bad
Most laughable is the claim via text that the President specifically ruled out a quid-pro-quo - its more than obvious that the texter realized that someday these texts would get read in public, and beyond doubt that Pres Trump would never urge such caution
7
From Zelensky's aide, Andre Yermak:
"Once we have a date, will call for a press briefing, announcing upcoming visit and outlining vision for the reboot of US- UKRAINE relationship, including among other things Burisma and election meddling in investigations
[8/10/19, 5:42:30 PM] Kurt Volker: Sounds great!"
If this doesn't document the quid pro quo I don't know what does. Zelensky thought he was trading a meeting with Trump for a promise to investigate Biden and 2016 election interference (to blame the Ukrainians instead of Russia). When he learned, though, that the promised military funding had been held up, he did not go forward with the scheduled and drafted announcement. Imagine how he felt when he learned he had been played for a fool. And see the real evil here, that Trump was orchestrating the use of the Ukraine to both relieve Russia from evidence of election tampering, to help Trump get reelected, and even worse, help Russia against Ukraine by withholding military aid promised to Ukraine. Truly impeachment should only be the first step.
6
Asking for an investigation of his potential political rival and for a foreign government to interfere with the election are both impeachable offenses many times over. The quid pro quo if it happened (it happened) is just icing on the cake.
6
Of course he denies quid pro quo, but just look at what he does, not what he says. State Dept. people in Ukraine knew what he wanted, and were trying to provide it. It's all in text messages.
4
Quid pro quo is a benign agreement. Something for something. It is neither positive nor negative. This was different. There was an explicit threat of negative action against one party if it did not agree to the demands of the other party. Sounds more like extortion or bribery. And that is a crime.
4
@Mickey T
Quid pro quo is always negative when one party has more power than the other—it used to be the very basis of sexual harassment cases. But yeah, this sounds like extortion to me as well.
1
I find it very interesting that when Mr Taylor was getting to a specific point, i.e. (from the article): "Mr. Taylor, the diplomat in Kiev, saw a connection. “Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?” he asked Mr. Sondland in a text message on Sept. 1. Call me, Mr Sondland replied." If there's no quid pro quo then why can't they write about it in the email? Something is a foot.
2
Dragging Pence under the bus with him is a work of genius. Republicans may have been convinced, perhaps, to find Trump guilty in the Senate, safe in the knowledge that Pence, who has already shown that he is a reliable marionette, would move into the Oval Office. But, if impeaching Trump now means impeaching Pence, the cost will be too high.
4
Richard Nixon famously said, "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."
Donald Trump and the Trump Republicans have updated that sentiment. "Well, when a Republican does it, that means that it is not illegal. But if a Democrat does it, that means it is high treason."
1
There is no threat to Trump’s presidency. With the groundswell of support from his base the Republican majority in the Senate will never find him guilty. And it takes a 2/3 vote to do so. This impeachment fiasco is a waste of time and money. The House should get back to the real business they were elected to perform.
"Political enemies" is so misleading. VP Biden cannot objectively be considered an opponent of President Trump because he has not yet won the Democratic Party primary.
At this time, they are literally not running against one another.
Secondly, after reading today's newly released emails and text messages, I don't see any information related to Biden. I see communications related to the 2016 election and Ukraine's possible role in supplying opposition content against Trump.
To this day journalists cannot help themselves but lie, lie and lie.
Without the quid pro quo, it's still a federal campaign violation. But with the quid pro quo, you have both a campaign violation AND extortion, a much more serious crime. The quid pro quo is obvious to anyone not oblivious to reality.
I was afraid this might happen ...
"the Moscow Tower (where the profits make the Biden son's $50.000 a month a mere piddling)"
Such comments seem to assume that the (Trump) Moscow Tower actually exists. For the record, it doesn't. Never did.
Trump says it's only about corruption. But the only corruption he discusses is the so called Biden corruption. when he talks to foreign governments it's only about Biden. The only corruption Rudy investigates is Biden. The only information he asks for is about Biden. So any foreign government knows that Trump doesn't care a bit about corruption that he just wants dirt on Biden, true or manufactured. Just as they know that when they visit America they stay at Trump properties so they can funnel the Trump family cash as a bribe they now know they can get concessions out of Trump on trade deals or sanctions by giving Trump anything, true or false, to help his campaign.
1
Anybody watching, or familiar with the antics of Donald Trump must surely know by now that 'Quid Pro Quo' is the only kind of deal he makes.
3
Why is everyone so concerned about "quid pro quo". Request to the Ukrainian President itself is unconstitutional and grounds for impeachment. Don't let him off the hook by requiring a quid pro quo linkage.
1
I don't suppose Trump has given any thought to his legacy. Even if he survives impeachment, he will be disgraced. And even if he wins reelection, none of his executive actions, changes in regulations, ill-advised tariffs, and ruinous tax cuts will survive. The next Democrat in office -- perhaps even the next Republican, if that's how it goes -- will dismantle the obnoxious edifice of hatred, vulgarity, xenophobia, and just plain meanness that he is building. Ultimately, the history books about this period will leave his name in tatters and mark his presidency as a reactionary blot on American progress.
Not much to keep fighting for, is there?
3
Trump’s Art of the Deal is all about quid pro quo as Trump practices it. You give Trump what he wants and you get what he will give you. Doing business with him is a sucker’s game.
4
Stop falling into Trump's trap and talking about quid pro quo. There is no need for a quid pro quo. Asking a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political rival in anticipation of it helping Trump's election chances is enough.
1
Why carry Trump's water with these headlines?
Why not, "Text messages confirm attempt to trade investigation for political access and funding"?
1
I was in Kiev when this story first broke. Ukrainians were amused, bemused, and finally infuriated when the implications of how Trump had humiliated and embarrassed Zelensky. To them, this is a life and death situation: they need western help to curb Russian aggression. Many feel that Trump is more closely aligned with Putin than Zelensky, and they trust neither, banking on their man to do the right thing but not knowing what the right thing is.
This is truly a character test for Zelensky; he is trapped between two mad dictators.
8
Here is the fundamental problem w/the claim that there was no quid-pro-quo: unless you are actually discussing an exchange of goods and/or services for money, good, or services, there is never an explicitly stated quid-pro-quo. That's not how it works. In a situation w/a built in power imbalance, the person w/more power doesn't have to ask or demand anything. All they have to do is make it clear that there are things (goods or services) that they would enjoy receiving. The implication is clear to all - the power imbalance has already created a situation in which the person w/less power is beholden to the person with more.
43
@Greg
"Nice little convenience store you've got there. It would be a shame if something happened to it. But there's a favor you could do for me, though..."
Mafia kingpins have gone to prison on less evidence than that.
1
"The Democratic chairmen of the committees said in a letter to colleagues late Thursday night that the texts were “only a subset of the full body of materials” that Mr. Volker turned over and that others would be released in time."
America , YOU STINK from the Trump-Kushner crime family and their abettors. It is way past time to flush the stink.
FYI , the ONLY nation in the world that has a positive rating of Trump is Israel. The world is NOT wrong.
47
@Duncan Lennox - and Israel only has a positive rating of trump so they can continue to get what they want from him.
He is done when mid-western farmers say enough.
Bought by their own money.
12
It's a short hop from "Investigate my rival" to "shoot my rival" or "jail my rival" or "nationalize my rival's business" when it comes to foreign entanglements. Do you think someone like Mohammad Bin Salman Al Saud wouldn't have an American 'disappeared' in his country if it meant billion in aide or weapons or lucrative oil contracts? If Congress lets anyone in our government get away with this, they are complicit in making the US just another banana republic, corrupt to the core, with liberty and justice for none (except the President's cronies).
33
In the 1970’s it was “the tapes”. Today it’s “the server”.
15
Trump publicly called on China -- as well as Ukraine -- to investigate the Bidens. This is illegal, not to mention a "high crime and misdemeanor!" Treason, to put it simply.
Why has he not been shackled and marched off to jail?
This administration would like the public to think that the DOJ created a rule of law that says a sitting president can't be indicted. But it is not a rule. It is merely an advisory memo.
Trump and his lying minions -- Barr, Pompeo, Guiliani, Jordan, Graham, Mnuchin and the rest who violate their oaths to the Constitution and ignore subpoenas -- must be held to account and jailed immediately.
34
Trumps strategy is to make attempts at normalizing his criminal behavior.
he says he has an obligation to investigate corruption....
ignorant voters believe him. that’s why hi is in the white house.
One has to keep in mind that this isn't about right or wrong, legal or illegal from Trump supporters. It's about winning and losing. They've chained every last ounce of their self worth to Trump and they won't be convinced it was a mistake. Ever.
35
@Joe Arena
Understood.
But for the rest of us, this about right vs. wrong. As it should be.
===
The only saving grace is that the adherents to the Trump doomsday cult are a minority of Americans.
Congress, do the right thing!
1
Typical Trump. He accuses others of what he himself knows he is absolutely guilty of: corruption and abuse of power.
These are debunked and baseless accusations against Biden and his son. I agree that this represented an appearance of impropriety and Hunter’s position on the board should have been avoided. But no one has ever shown anything illegal occurred despite much haranguing on the right.
Sorry Mr Trump. Your fate now lies with the House Intelligence committee, the application of law, precedent and I predict subsequent votes on articles of impeachment by 435 members.
Your twitter blathering ain’t going to influence that.
10
This man does everything by implied threats. But I will say he is getting more direct as in threatening Nancy Pelosi that he will not turn over any documents unless she holds an impeachment vote. Isn't that in itself a quid pro quo. Stick with the Executive Branch Mr. President and leave the Legislative to do their jobs. That is the Constitution so try reading it instead of tweeting and you might learn something.
16
I hate to tell you, people are saying the last time shoes were dropping this fast in DC was when the TJ Maxx on 13th Street tossed Ivanka's unsold "fashion forward footwear" into the dumpster. SAD!
21
I don't think he really knows what that term means, much less the subtleties of it. Not that it matters now - he's publicly asked foreign powers to do him a political favor. That's impeachable. However, apparently the GOP in Congress wouldn't impeach him even if he actually did shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue. He's insane, but they're despicable.
14
We are past the “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” stage. Trump, Pence and Pompeo need to go. Giuliani should be thrown in jail.
19
Agreed. DC is on fire!
What the left see as Election Tampering the Right sees as exposing corruption.
The impeachment will fail in the Senate but the election will determine where people come down on this.
9
Every time I watch Law and Order every defense attorney admonishes the client "don't say another word." Donald Trump is a defense attorney's nightmare.
12
@nzierler - Rudy is a client's nightmare. Could a client claim in court that his attorney was not mentally fit for trial?
1
@nzierler
— but he’s a prosecutor’s dream.
@nzierler yeah but his lawyer never shuts up either. Watch trump sue him.
What Trump and the Republicans fail to acknowledge the facts.
A- The Obama administration used the threat of holding back money to get them to get rid of their own officials who was corrupt and wasn't doing enough to weed out corruption in the Ukraine government. He wasn't investigating either Joe Biden or the company whose board his son sat on. Before the US was going to give them money, they we wanted to make sure it was going to go where it was supposed to go.
B- Trump, on the other hand, asked the president of the Ukraine to investigate a US citizen and his son. No just any US citizen, but a former VP and potential presidential opponent. It doesn't really matter if there was any quid pro quo, he was intimidating a foreign sovereignty to investigate a US citizen in order to influence the outcome of the next election.
If Trump and the Republican party is Okay with that, than our democracy is on a collision course with disaster. If they are allowed to get away with all that they have done and continue to do in plain sight, than we are witnessing the end of our Democracy as we know it and as the Founding Fathers designed it.
We had a nice run there, for a while.
7
@Larry absolutely agree. We are at the end. The US is no longer a democracy and it will take at least 50 years, if not more to recover, even if he is gone tomorrow.
1
“. . . indicated that his own representatives saw it differently”
All this story shows is the “representatives” did not know Trump’s intention. Their texting was speculative discussion about a diplomatic matter. Was there a proffered quid pro quo? One guy says maybe. The other says no way.
“. . . the impeachment inquiry now threatening the future of Mr. Trump’s presidency”
What threat? The lemming-like Democratic House majority will vote to impeach. Unless there is a groundswell of bipartisan support for conviction the Senate will acquit.
Knowing any tyrannical committee chairman can subpoena their conversations, notes and other work products, I do wonder what effect this inquisition by the Democratic Party will have on the way future administrations and foreign governments interact. Seems to me this “investigation” by the Democratic Party will push our government’s representatives to find new and more clever ways to shield themselves from political manipulation or reprisal by the party in power.
Maybe if Trump really wants dirt on Biden et al, he ought to take a lesson from the Democrats. Hire a Christopher Steele.
1
He requested a foreign head of state conduct an investigation of an American citizen and a political rival. Even though there was no evidence of corruption on the part of either of the Bidens. No quid pro quo needed...
But on top of that he is asking China to do the same! Why?
1
Having just lisend to this morning's diatribe: Trump is plowing ahead with his accusations and insults, and clearly this is what we are going to get, day after day: plaints of being persecuted by Democrats and the press, snarled accusations against opponents made of thin air, interlaced with lies about what he has said or done.
Just because he has decided to use his denial of a quid pro quo as a repeating line, we do not have to pick it up. He has asked other nations' governments to interfere in the US election. S He specifically targeted a US citizen. OUT.
5
So, one Trump stooge manages to squeeze in one text messages out of many that says "there is no quid pro quo..."
So what?
That is like robbing a bank and on the way out the door looking at the security camera and saying "this was not a robbery."
10
Russia,
We can lift the sanctions, set you back up with your deals with Tillerson and overlook Crimea if you can give us what we need to get trump ejected.
7
Painful. Truly painful to watch the President squirming while he dishes up lies on the White House lawn. Yesterday he invited investigation of his political opponent both from Ukraine and then solicited China to investigate as well. Today we are supposed to forget those statements. Biden isn't even considered his opponent at all! He only cares about corruption which he is "allowed to do". Clearly advised to shut up about "political" and to call it "corruption". What we know is foreign policy in the Trump White House is carried out by Giuliani not a sworn official in the Government. Texts clearly are showing the President leveraging military aid (tax payer money approved by Congress) for Ukraine conditional to help him with his election. Now we know China, Italy and Australia have been consulted regarding Biden and that AG Barr is involved. All looking like a conspiracy orchestrated from the top. These are all very serious departures from American foreign policy. Iran and North Korea becoming more and more bellicose, no accident each are in the news this week. Do any of us feel secure with Trump at the helm? I have a growing sense of urgency that the House's impeachment inquiry needs to be expedient. I have a gut feeling that the Mueller report which uncovered so many ties and meetings to Russia will suddenly become more relevant.
5
Unfortunately for the country, impeachment does not/will not threaten Donald Trump's presidency. Moreover, if removal were possible, the specter of Mike Pence in the oval office is bone-chilling. Splitting hairs over whether or not quid pro quo occurred is nothing more than a smoke and mirrors distraction. Seeking foreign interference with a U.S. election is illegal. Period. Full stop.
Too many people in power, including Republican members of the U.S. Senate and those who fund them, benefit from Trump's lunacy and the chicanery of his appointees. Can we please just move on to March and November 2020?
4
This has become utterly ridiculous. According the the White House and its enablers the standard of proof has become, the President of the United States “literally” saying to a foreign government, If you don’t investigate my political rival you will not get Military Assistance. What happened to we don’t involve foreign governments in our democratic process. It is not enough that when asked for Assistance, the very next thing said by Trump is he needs a favor. And that the aid has been halted by the person requesting said favor. A three year old knows that that if a treat is withheld, the way to obtain said treat it is to do whatever the treat provider has requested.
6
Trump is showing the world how he has been able to escape justice all of his life.
It’s time to show him that we aren’t falling for it anymore.
12
There is irony in President Trump essentially blackmailing a foreign government to coerce them into an investigation of corruption. His demands are inherently corrupt. If it weren't tragic and dangerous, it would be comical: Mr. Trump's condemnation of corruption is akin to Hannibal Lecter advocating a vegetarian diet.
7
Odds on Rudy leaving current post (whatever that is asserted to be) are changing by the minute - as they say in Kiev, money on the wood, makes the bet good.
1
Fox News doesn't report facts. Maybe mainstream media should not report on lies and simply not allow it on their platforms. Ignore Trumps tweets when they are lies, quit giving him the spotlight to spew his eyes. Simply ignore it. Congress has enough evidence already. He needs attention and the mainstream media constantly gives it to him. Sad!
2
We went from no t enough evidence to support criminal conspiracy between Team Trump and Moscow to influence the 2016election , to Trump telling George Stephenapoulos in June that he'd "listen" to dirt about a rival were he approached by a foreign government to his actively soliciting it. So with this as evidence, would Mueller conclude that Trump is conspiring criminally?
4
The quid pro quo is already in plain sight...in the transcript.
In superior/subordinate relationships quid pro quos often happen without a threat ever being specifically verbalized.
Imagine a boss informing his attractive young secretary about an upcoming promotion, saying that she has a shot at it. He then asks her to dinner at his home discuss it. When she seems to be balking at his advances, he makes a comment like "it is going to be tough getting that promotion, you are going to need all the friends you can get."
The requirement for a fulfillment of the offer a promotion has been made.
Without a single threat.
In this scandal, Ukraine is subordinate to the US; they were asking for millions in goods directly to the person responsible for making this decision.
In the transcript Ukranian president Zelensky says:
"We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins [anti-tank missiles] from the United States for defense purposes."
To which trump responded: "I would like you to do us a favor though because''.
And then proceeded to ask Zelensky in find dirt of a political rival, Mr. Biden.
There it is.
The quid pro quo.
In broad daylight, for everyone to see.
What am I missing?
Is this not totally obvious?
5
"Mr. Trump has asserted he did nothing wrong ... "
"President Trump has made 12,019 false or misleading claims over 928 days" (Washington Post, Aug. 2019) So the man is an inveterate liar, maybe we should ask someone else. And in any case, the amount of time Mr. Trump, Mr. Giuliani, and other Trump minions have spent on attempting to smear Mr. Biden is way, way beyond any normal anti-corruption effort. I vote guilty.
6
Soliciting foreign nationals for campaign aid violates the Constitution (the Emoluments Clause specifically prohibits receiving such aid), and FEC statutes, and is a felony.
Shaking down a foreign leader by running a protection racket - see Nick Kristof's article "It would be too bad if something happened to your nice country..." - is gangsterism, per se.
Focusing on rebutting the lame Trump defense that there was "No Quid Pro Quo" contributes to the phenomena most recently seen in Barr's treatment of the Mueller Report. It's a reprise of odious "No Collusion," which confused most of the country.
Mr. Baker's fine reporting would be better served by a more unequivocal headline like "Diplomats saw Trump linking release of military aid to Ukraine's aid for Trump in the 2020 Campaign."
This is odious behavior by any objective measure for a businessman never mind the president of the United States - we are better served if the Times does not mince words.
4
No need for a quid pro quo. Soliciting campaign help from a foreign government is an abuse of power all by itself. The fact (right there in black and white) that Trump was also trying to exchange weapons for dirtying Biden is just frosting.
3
The Republicans coming out of this meeting are pursuing a "night is day" line, and if they repeat it enough, perhaps enough of the American people will believe it. I saw yesterday that only 40% of Republican voters believe the President asked Ukraine to investigate the Bidens, even though we have it from his own mouth!
2
Trumps should start with transparency at home if he wants to preach it to the World. Release his tax returns, release the full Mueller report and underlying evidence, release transcripts of his conversations with Putin, Mohammad bin Salmon, Netanyahu..., allow government officials to testify before Congress, testify himself as he never did with Mueller, release documents requested by Congress, release an accounting of the "donations" to his inauguration, release the sources of payments to his properties.
Even without all that there is plenty of evidence with which to impeach him by Thanksgiving.
4
The Ukraine has a "normal policy" of corruption in business. This is from primary sources. WHY are we giving the Ukraine $250 million per year?? That is what the public needs to know. Is it because BUSH promised them to keep our base in Poland (in exchange for Ukraine's Nuclear concessions), and then OBAMA pulled out of Poland, which caused Russia to attack the Ukraine. Is that why we are giving them the $250 million? Why doesn't anyone care about this money and why we are giving it to President Zelensky, who also was artificially elected by FB bots (primary source). We need to understand where our hard earned tax dollars are going. Our hatred of Trump overshadows so much of the bigger evil in the world.
Pro tip: saying that you’re using a “primary source,” doesn’t actually prove that you’re using a primary source.
Gordon Sondland: Bill, I never said I was “right”. I said we are where we are and believe we have identified the best pathway forward. Lets hope it works.
I hope Mr Sondland gets to testify to the Congress about the wrongness in this affair. There is so much. These career diplomats who care were trying so hard to help Ukraine, in a good way, and they had to deal with Trump and Guliani and all their shady weirdnesses. (Talk about having to be diplomatic, sheesh) Good Lord, what a show!
3
Quid pro quo?
A bank robber fails in his attempt. His defense? I'm innocent your Honor, I never got the cash.
To Pompeo's "It may be despicable, but it's no crime", no, the attempt is in fact a crime.
6
Trump's early pronouncements about the conversation are the tell; the proof of quid pro quo. He said repeatedly, and perhaps still does, that the conversation was "perfect" as if that word would clearly describe a conversation between two heads of state. It doesn't. It describes a state of being. In Trump's mind, I believe, is that he did not say "If you don't get the goods on Biden and his son, I will withhold your military aide." Some one must have told him after the call was over that he did a "perfect" job of making his demands and the consequences clear. Obviously, to any person reading the text delivered to the press, House, and public, Trump was blackmailing the Ukraine government into doing hs campaign work. Trump is a crook.
5
You know how we know there was a quid pro quo? Trump keeps saying there wasn't.
8
Wait! Didn’t Jim Jordan say Volker said nothing new and the hearing was a waste of time?
Was Jordan not at the hearing?
6
@PaulB67
Jordan heard what he wanted to hear at the hearing.
Republican citizens are also wondering why our Senators are silent.
We don't want any elected officials to ask foreign countries to interfere in American elections.
We all know it is illegal.
Mitch, wake up buddy. Let's take the party back, dump this clown, and get on with the business of running our country.
9
Trump will take Biden down as he falls himself. Hunter Biden's lucrative Ukrainian job smells to high Heaven. Trump's attempt to shake down the Ukrainian government for personal political gain by withholding Congressionally approved aid is as impeachable an offence as any in our history.
3
"Do us a favor" sounds like the definition of a quid pro quo. Look it up.
1
To anyone who can't see the quid pro quo, I'd like to offer another Latin phrase: res ipsa loquitur.
Sometimes the thing really does speak for itself.
5
@andyo123
Rem acu tetigisti
you have touched the matter with a needle.
"Mr. Trump has asserted he did nothing wrong and was only trying to uncover corruption by Democrats". And, when he began his quest for Obama's birth certificate it had nothing to do with Obama personally.
Trump was only trying to root out corrupt Democrats who were smuggling babies from Africa to Hawaii, forging their American birth certificates so 35 years later they could qualify to run for president, win the Democratic nomination, defeat the GOP candidate and go on to win the presidency.
See, it wasn't about the Obama or the Bidens, it was about rooting out corruption.
3
Of course Trump is lying again. It happens every time his lips move.
4
The text msgs are NOT about Biden, but about a lawful DOJ investigation headed by John Durham.
Read Mr. Volker's text msg re: Zelensky: "he will investigate / ‘get to the bottom of what happened’ in 2016".
2
'Will no one rid me of this meddling priest?"
2
October 4, 2019
A deal is a deal and that is the truth for how our president Trump lives and sort of thinks by his own rules - it not about politics it is just Trumpian ruler-ship - all for the of being 'chosen,' by his self omniscience - this is about a great american nightmare for especially readers of the New York Times and that's fit to print for the historic record to explore destiny.
1
And thus begins another "Bridgegate". The administration did the dirty work, but the guy in charge was completely ignorant? Really?
1
FEC should be given this issue as a civil matter and see what happens.
Looks so familiar, Trump gets everyone else to do his dirty work while he sits back and lies. Corruption, looking into it what a joke.
This is so pathetic for his supporters to think he is working for them.
5
These text messages, along with the Trump Ukraine Call Memorandum and words out Mr. Trump's mouth and the mouth of his Secretary of Shadows, Rudy Giuliani these past several days are, in a word, damning.
I can read and hear words and am able to read between lines. What I have heard and read so far stinks to high heaven. Even if every Democrat loses his or her seat in 2020 for exercising their mandated constitutional duty to investigate Mr. Trump, I don't care. At least they will have not have gone down in ignominy.
7
From the rally stage in 2016: "Russia, if you're listening" perhaps you can find those missing e-mails. Days later WikiLeaks uploads its cashe to the public. Sec. Clinton is duly harmed.
From the telephone call in July 2019: "Can you do us a favor though" that thing with the Bidens now made public through transcripts.
From the back yard at the White House this week: "China should investigate the Bidens."
VP Biden is now clearly harmed by this, bigly. The deed is already done, mission accomplished.
3
When is Roger Stone’s trial set to begin? We may hear the truth about Wikileaks before the impeachment vote....
The GOP is channelling Sgt. Schultz, "I see nothing, NOTHING!"
5
Implausible deniability.
7
opinions are a dime a dozen i.e. may others including the ambassador disagree it's a QPQ
This is Roy Cohn's mentoring of the Donald at work. His fingerprints are all over Trumps strategy both when he handled the quid pro quo with Ukraine's president without actually saying it and in how he's handling the aftermath. Its kind of amazing actually, Cohn died of AIDS complications back in 1986 yet his legacy continues to corrupt American governance. As the power behind Senator Joseph McCarthy's communist hysteria in the 1950's Cohn not only survived McCarthy's train wreck, he thrived. Donald Trump didn't become the cancer on the body politic he is all on his own. There are many players invested in Trumps drama and not all of them are dead like Cohn. You take Giuliani and Miller's masterful manipulation of the Trumpster and you see Cohn's legacy playing out in real time. The evil men do far outlive their lives. In Cohn's case its living in President Trump.
4
Hey, what is the big deal here - no Ukranian has voted in the 2020 election, right!!! Or an Australian or Chinese for that matter. Perhaps a russian did, but they voted in 2016 also, so not new. Nothing burger folks.
@SM
If this is a nothing burger, then I suggest you change your diet; most see a sandwich is loaded with fat.
1
Watching the Trump presidency is like watching Faust. So many underlings selling their souls to the devil.
6
Asking for help during an election is what matters-even if there were no quid pro quo. It does not even matter if there was pressure put on Zelensky-the request is all that matters. As for the Bidens, it's been proven that nothing untoward occurred-don't let Trump divert our attention.
4
The popular term "gaslighting" seems to apply to Trump as he views his role and any events surrounding him.
From the Urban Dictionary: "The classic example of gaslighting is to switch something around on someone that you know they're sure to notice, but then deny knowing anything about it, and to explain that they "must be imagining things" when they challenge these changes."
Apparently a form of psychological abuse he's subjecting us all to:"false information is presented to the victim, making them doubt their own memory, perception and quite often, their sanity"
Sound familiar?
2
Times should note that "no quid pro quo" is not a relevant defense but a red herring. Quid pro quo is NOT the legal standard.
8
We don't need quid pro quo. We have a crime. We have the evidence for the crime. We have the votes in the House to impeach him. We now need to get the required votes in the Senate. That is where the efforts need to be focused. Target the senators, educate the public and drive the public sentiment to influence the targeted senators. Period.
5
One thing I’m sure of is that if trump learns that he’s walked right up to the line but not crossed it yet, just wait.....he’s gonna walk a little closer. Or even just barge over it.
Republicans accuse Democrats of being too permissive, while they’ve handed their darling 4yo the car keys and are standing idly by while he careens the car toward the expressway at 90mph. They have no clue he plans to push it to 120.
2
The loud and very much whirling sideshow of international requests by senior officials to "investigate" is playing out, now, to, not throw mud, but to throw legitimacy, back on to Mr. Trump hoping some of it will stick.
1
I agree with many of the commentators here that it is not necessary to have a quid pro quo to demonstrate abuse of power in an impeachment. But in reading this article, don't we see a pretty blatant quid pro quo? I can't begin to understand how Republican lawmakers honestly see this testimony as helping the man in the Oval Office (but then again, I'm sure they actually do and are just praying they can spin lies into a narrative some Americans will choose to believe).
2
He can lie/deny all he wants, but it won’t make any difference. His words speak clearly and plainly for themselves: he broke the law.
3
Completely quid pro quo but this also illustrates the fraud about Trump’s self proclaimed negotiating skills benefitting the country. Using them to shake down a foreign government to help his re-election is hardly a benefit to the country. The man’s tantamount to a mob boss and only does things which benefit himself.
1
Do you agree or disagree: If you have no problem with a republican president using the office to investigate political rivals, then it must follow that you have no problem with a democratic president using the office to investigate political rivals.
1
Even if Trump did not get any "dirt" from the Ukraine, it is still an impeachable crime to ask a foreign government for aid against an US politician. This is as clear as it gets based on the Constitution. Now we have not only the impeachable offense with Ukraine but also with China and in 2016 with Russia. It is time indict and convict.
If the President was holding back $391M because of concerns over corruption in the Ukraine, wouldn't the concern be that the funds would be mis-used and mis-appropriated by government officials? Isn't that what would be of interest to America and taxpayers?
Instead, the President's concern was whether it was Ukrainians, not the Russians, that interfered in the 2016 election (the Mueller investigation already demonstrated overwhelmingly that it was Russians), and whether the Bidens were corrupt. Why was there no effort to investigate whether the Zelensky administration and the Ukrainian government institutions had been cleaned up and prepared to spend the money properly?
The answer is obvious. Trump didn't care about corruption in the Ukraine. His concern was clearing the Russians and assist his 2020 campaign by exposing his opponent as corrupt. Of course all of this was based on conspiracy theories being pursued by Rudy and which were too tantalizing for Trump to ignore.
1
We have reached the point of republicans and trump proclaiming “if the president does it, it’s not against the law.” But Trump is so much worse than Nixon. Trump is not a real public servant so he thinks nothing of tossing down the tubes the institutions that preserve our freedom. Republicans go along with that. Trump serves only his ego, republicans serve only the wealthy. A lot of the time, this interests align, to the detriment of the United States.
1
Quid pro quo is a slippery thing, but here's a way we can prove it. Ask Trump why he appointed Sondland as an ambassador to the EU. He'll say something like he is loyal and smart. Maybe there is a letter to back it up his qualifications. But in reality he has that position because he donated to Trump. That is a perfect example of a quid pro quo that is not in writing, but was hard and fast, and unequivocal. Just like the one demanding Biden's son being investigated.
1
As Rachel Maddow said, the asking is the crime. It doesn’t matter if he got anything in return. The democrats are unable to convey even this simple response.
3
Ignorance is no excuse. Ignorance is no defense. Ignorance is pathetic.
2
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it's a duck. You can call it a giraffe if you like, (and you would be wrong) but it's a duck.
3
China, if you can come up with some dirt on Trump,
we’re buyers.
3
It’s been 13 months since the anonymous NYT Op-Ed by the Resistance writer. How about an update on the current situation?
4
There's a whole lot of Republicans speaking pig latin nowadays..but do they even realize what they're accusing Biden of, they're actively doing!?
5
Here’s a headline: Trump Schemes to Extort Foreign Governments to Participate in Smear Campaign Using Public Funds
7
"the impeachment inquiry that is threatening Mr. Trump's presidency" =
the impeachment inquiry which is helping Mr. Trump's reelection
His campaign received $8 million in the 48 hours following the impeachment inquiry announcement, mostly from small donors...
People don't see the downside of rooting out corruption around the world where we provide help.
@otroad
It is amazing that people who are so knotted up about Trump asking the president of Ukraine don't see a problem with Biden's son making $600 grand a year for a no-show job.
I am simply amazed that so many small donors see this man who has bankrupted no fewer than six times and is so obviously funnelling state resources towards his private concerns as a man who is draining a swamp. The swamp is his natural habitat.
7
@otroad
Rooting out corruption begins at home.
1
The point that most people seem to be missing is that it is a crime to request help from a foreign government in an election campaign, even if help is refused. Barr's people put too much emphasis on the phrase "thing of value" which has long been interpreted to include intangibles as well as tangible property and to include items of value to the candidate even if they are without any commercial value at all. This interpretation is shared by both the federal courts and the US Attorney Generals including Barr.
The withholding of foreign aid and the existence of a "quid pro quo" is just icing on the cake for a prosecutor to add additional counts to an indictment.
7
Having just read articles in the WSJ that mildly support Trump and question the Bidens and then what Mitt Romney is tweeting, it makes me question if Mitt Romney is the only Republican with a sense of right and wrong, justice and integrity. Or maybe he's the last standing honest Republican who doesn't need Trump and refuses to sell his soul.
314
@Julie I feel like a bold move by Marco Rubio or another "respected" republican senator to question / condemn Trump's unlawful behavior would start the flood. It's not too late. Yet.
26
@Julie Oh, definitely not. Romney doesn't have any ethics either; if he did he wouldn't be a Republicans. He's just aware enough to figure out that this is going to be bad for Republicans and he's trying to make himself look better.
28
@Julie He’s saving his soul for the Senate vote on removal. Then he will name his price.
26
#1: As I understand the rules a quid-pro-quo is not necessary for a "ask" to be improper if it mixes the valid interests of the United States with the private (political) interests of the official doing the asking.
#2: If you are the President of the United States _everything_ you ask someone automatically has an implicit quid-pro-quo attached to it, even if it's just that the other leader can tell people "...imagine, the U.S. President asked me for a favor, and I said...". The U.S. is the last remaining superpower, having a good relationship is _vital_ to a lot of countries.
So, in conclusion: he's guilty as heck and "All the President's Men" won't get him out of this bind. Question is: what will happens if the Senate actually convicts him? He's already tweeting about a civil war. And if the Senate acquits him, and he then loses the election, will he go peacefully? Will he do so at the end of his second term? I doubt all three.
You are in trouble, America, and you better come up with a quick fix to the problem of handing ONE man the total power over the military without any checks and balances. Good idea in 1776, bad idea these days, with all these nukes laying around, just saying...
26
In this area the standard is "appearance of wrong-doing" for public officials. It is obvious there was quid pro quo, but it is unnecessary for impeachment. Trump keeps defining-down the standards of behavior. Trump is the model, i.e. the exact idea the founders had in mind when they invented impeachment.
10
Since Ukraine now knows, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Trump purposely withheld funds needed to combat Russian occupation of their country, and China sees that Trump's bootlicking strengths Putin - What's stopping Z and Xi from joining forces to choose our next President? Trump has literally handed them the winning hand and there's no pit boss controlling the game...
7
Who is going to be the John Dean hero ? My money is on Marie Yovanovitch, the recently fired Ukraine Ambassador who was reportedly let go because she resisted the devious plan and bad mouthed Trump. Her testimony, especially detailing her conversations with Guiliani, will surely be explosive.
30
“Trump Denies Quid Pro Quo for Ukraine, but Envoys Had Their Doubts”
Your headline says it all. This will boil down to one person‘s interpretation against another’s. There will be no smoking gun here, because the issue at hand is political in nature, not criminal and not based on the compromise of any intelligence information.
If I can come to this conclusion, certainly Nancy Pelosi can as well.
5
What are you even talking about? Do you honestly believe that if these guys TEXTED about it, more aides didn’t memorialize their conversations with Trump, and that as pressure builds, they won’t reveal their recordings and notes?
3
@David H We already have 5 or 6 smoking guns. But, you do you.
1
@David H - It doesn't have to be a crime to warrant impeachment.
How did you not know this?
2
"Some day, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me..."
20
So assuming he’s elected, Joe Biden should be immediately impeached upon taking office? On screen no less making a Quid Pro Quo for a Billion Dillard worth of Aid. He should at least be investigated! The standard is being set!
3
Sure! What Biden said was that either the Ukraine find a prosecutor who is willing to investigate corruption or it does not get $1B in aid.
3
@Hjb
Joe Biden broke no laws and can behave himself.
There's nothing to impeach there.
2
@Rocking Hammer -Hogwash. As VP Biden had no authority to do anything of the kind.
2
The rationalization or better known as an outright lie, that it was used to uncover corruption doesn't even hold up merit if it was found. The precedent would be that any President can have other foreign governments investigate if they so wish. In other words, it would have been perfectly acceptable for Obama to ask Russia to investigate Trump's business dealings when he was President and even get his taxes under the guise of looking for corruption. Ridiculous.
9
@Glen I'd love to hear a reporter ask him about this discrepancy in logic.
@Glen
When Obama was President, Trump wasn’t an elected public official carrying out what was supposed to be the nations business with an appearance of personal enrichment. He was a private citizen pursuing his own business.
I have come to surmise that Trump has become even more brazen and defiant about his malfeasance and trampling of the Constitution because he has received assurance from McConnell that no matter what impeachment evidence is presented to the Senate, its Republicans will exonerate Trump. And if that's the case, those Republican senators up for reelection in 2020 deserve to lose their seats. Willfully protecting a president deserving removal should be a criminal act.
18
I think it will come to a head when Barr goes to jail for contempt. The Republican Senate and the voters have strayed so far from the constitution over the course of years that the US is not operational now. Nancy I trust but they will not go down easily. They are enemies of the USA.
11
I heard Trump on the lawn explaining that his only interest in pursuing Biden and son is because of his intense hatred of corruption. He is unable to stomach corruption anyplace in the world. No corruption (just like no collusion) . He is so clean.
Talk of the pot calling the kettle black. Wow!
Not only had he assembled an undrained swamp in his Oval Office, but he himself is not averse to taking quids for quos. In spite of his denials it is apparent that he "threatened" to withhold arms from Ukraine or a trade deal from China unless they coughed up dirt on Biden.
We should not forget the 2016 campaign where he had sent Cohen and Sater to Moscow to build the Moscow Tower (where the profits make the Biden son's $50.000 a month a mere piddling). Of course as expected the "What Me???" president denied everything, but the Washington Post (one of Trump's fake news outlets, which means it's more reputable than Hannity) quoted the Cohen -Sater team as saying that they were authorized to give Putin a 50 million dollar penthouse if he would allow the Tower to be built.
Trump is not to be believed when he dons the garb of the honest businessman who abhors corruption (unless practiced by himself or family.) I recall he called the 1977 Foreign Corrupt Practices Act a "horrible law", saying why should the USA be concerned with what happens in "India". We have a leader who never tells the truth. To get at Biden he becomes an "honest man", an anti-corruption vigilante.
9
@shimr
But in 2016 Trump was a private citizen, not the Vice President.
@KBronson
During the campaign he said that he had no business interests in Russia---none at all. And during this time Cohen was trying to set up the Trump Tower in Moscow.
@shimr
"I heard Trump on the lawn explaining that his only interest in pursuing Biden and son is because of his intense hatred of corruption."
It's not his job to pursue anyone, corruption or not. That is the job of the FBI.
The way Trump flip flops on issues and contradicts himself regularly is Stalinesque: "In with the out! Out with the In! Destroy the Right, when there's no Right left, I then become the Right to destroy everyone else and then they'll all have to obey ME!!!!"
1
He absolutely should be charged with quid pro quo. He chose the 2 countries that he will withhold something if they don’t comply with his *ahem* “request.” He cancelled the military help to the Ukranian government, then “asked” for a favor. He said if China doesn’t do it, he will show “our tremendous power.” Coincidence that he’s got a trade meeting with President Xi next week? I doubt that it is. He will attempt to bargain his tariffs by either lowering it or raising it (again) if President Xi doesn’t comply. If he really wanted to have the Biden’s investigated, he should’ve gone through the proper channels, but first, he doesn’t care about “proper channels,” secondly, he’s doing this publicly, because it is absolutely politically motivated. Even I, as a citizen that doesn’t understand all there is about politics, can see through him. He’s absolutely doing to the Biden’s what he did with HRC! Intimidating a political opponent. Why else is it necessary for him to have them investigated a second time, under public scrutiny, other than to rile up his base? If he actually had concern that they really did something wrong, I believe the proper channels I spoke of, would be for him to have OUR intelligence agencies investigate, especially since the Biden’s were already cleared!
7
This is the second time this president has used our military aid to Ukraine to get them to do his personal bidding. Meanwhile Ukrainians die in battle with Russian back separatists. This president and all that support him need to go.
15
So sorry. There's nothing but problems with Mr. Trump.
7
One of the most important things the New York Times can do (for humanity, really) is to stop focusing on "quid pro quo". Trump has effectively moved the goal posts, and this lede and headline proves that. Quid pro quo is irrelevant to the impeachable offense in the Ukraine crisis. For Trump, saying "no quid pro quo!" is the same thing as him saying "no collusion, no obstruction!" These are artful legal terms that the public doesn't understand. By repeating them over and over, he enjoins the media in the obfuscation and he's able to crow vindication.
11
@Chris H : Thank you for your comment. I think I am seeing, now, with having Barr ask Australia to investigate, asking China to investigate, turning around and asking Ukraine, to investigate, an attempt to very much muddy the waters, in tandem, with a defiantly combative public "example" of similar behavior, and asks, designed to demonstrate, that this kind of communication is normal, "perfect," something done by everyone.
Yes, Mr Trump still did what he did. And will need to be reminded of that.
The loud and very much whirling sideshow is playing out, now, to, not throw mud, but to throw legitimacy, back on to Mr. Trump, hoping some of it will stick. Thanks again..
2
@Chris H
How about printing in bold faced italic underlined type:
Trump Denies Quid Pro Quo, But This Is NOT The Issue.
1
Trump is doing his usual “I didn’t steal the cookies” with chocolate all over his face. The blister and his efforts to recruit foreign governments is pathetic. Unfortunately Ukraine submitted to his ploy. His diatribes deflect from a sinking economy, low jobs growth, and a falling stock market. The Feds action will not help credit card holders and consumers will start tightening their wallets. It took eight years to return from the Great Recession but only 2.5 years for Trump and his band of pseudo economists to destroy it! Thanks
7
Either this corrupt Trump, his cowardly Republican party, his pundits who by the way many are profiting by association, wouldn't it be great to be a fly on the wall and see and hear exactly what these pundits really think when there are no cameras how about getting their texts, that would be a feat on its own as well as a revelation into this corrupt enterprise. I, however, trust few people but have listened to Will Hurd, his experience in investigations as a former CIA operative is invaluable so yes we are getting drabs and dribbles of information, everyone, trying to justify their position, many not being successful be they the Republicans, Democrats, Media, Analysts, the one thing that I can say, there is so much ill-advised, misleading statements coming from wherever, cable news, youtube The front lawn of the White House, that is the one that is totally disturbing, Trump is not trying to alleviate the concerns of the Americans, every day its like he forgets the statements made a few hours minutes before screaming like a rabid dog is saying see how guilty I am, for God Sakes will someone harness and muzzle him, he talks about the Constitution yet every time he opens his mouth, he destroys it because he has never read it, it is not a comic book, he does not have the mental capacity to compartamentalize, basically he needs an intervention badly, if he were to let the full process happen maybe he could be vindicated doubtful but there is a tiny chance
1
Trumps word is worthless, his denials undoubtedly falsehoods.
6
Mr. Sondland obviously very careful about leaving a paper trail of Trump's true intentions. Sure sounds innocent to me. ; -)
9
Does everyone now understand that our elections are now for sale to the highest bidder and our democracy has been trampled on by the Republican party. This is nothing less than high treason and this man needs to be indicted and removed before China takes up an offer they cannot refuse.
12
The current furor over Trump’s admitted abuse of office and criminal conduct only reinforces what any sane person has known. The Russians assisted Trump in contaminating the 2016 election even if Mueller unaccountably refused to go for the jugular. Now Trump wants to do it again. Substitute Ukraine and now China or rather add them to Russia and the plan is clear and admitted.
Fool me once. . . .
Go for it Dems and quickly. Either you will prevail in running this criminal out of the office he has befouled or the Republicans will be faced with defending the indefensible next November. As Thom Paine said the times have found us.
We have no choice but to proceed. Nancy, Adam, Jerry, sail on—and Godspeed.
7
Donald Trump plays his last card and asks for impeachment voting, in the house of representatives, putting the future of political representatives at political risk, but crimes cannot be put to the vote🤔
1
There haven’t been this many smoking guns since the civil war. Speaking of which, the outcome of this travesty better be a good one .
6
Do Republicans understand there’s no coming back from this?
13
Can anybody please explain to me how Rudy Giuliani's conduct is not a violation of the Logan Act?
The $5000 fine he could handle, I guess, but felons can't be lawyers, right? Which is how he could be forced away from Donald.
Then, maybe, if he stops poisoning Trump's mind the President might come back to his senses and do the right thing: RESIGN!
11
Sondland's texts remind me of the old joke (still used by many) after the Nixon tapes came out: While on a phone call, one party asserts s/he wishes something bad or illegal would occur. The other party responds, "but that would be wrong."
7
I think we all understand that a quid pro quo is unnecessary to conclude that Trump acted contrary to law. It seems that nearly all the commenters here think that even investigating a QPQ is a huge mistake and falls into some sort of trap set by Trump and mindlessly bought into by NYT. In so arguing, it seems to me that commenters are guilty of essentially the same thing of which they accuse Trump -- using the impeachment inquiry not to find out all that happened, but solely for the political purpose of trying to remove Trump as president.
Commenters argue that asking Ukraine for assistance in the 2020 campaign ought to be enough, but for one thing isn't it already clear that Republicans will take the position that that's not what happened? And isn't it clear that based on the record as it stands that Trump will not be removed by a Republican-controlled Senate?
I think Democrats have no choice but to pursue QPQ as part of a comprehensive inquiry to all facts and circumstances relating to this event. That's what a constitutional impeachment inquiry demands, and let the chips fall where they may. Trump will never prove that there wasn't a QPQ, but I suspect Democrats will make a lot of headway in uncovering evidence that there was. There already is evidence from the telephone call itself of a QPQ: When Ukraine asked to buy more Javelins, Trump did not say he would sell them but immediately conditioned it with use of the word "though". There will be more, I'm sure.
6
The shifting Republican defense:
Before: There was no asking foreign power to intervene, no collusion therefore no crime.
Today: Yes there was asking a foreign power to intervene, yes there was collusion but there was no quid pro quo therefore no crime.
12
Quid pro quo is the standard practice conducted in international diplomacy only for the nation's interest and not for personal gain. Trump thinks his personal interest such as making money for his personal business such as real estate, Ivanka's brands, investigating political foes are the nation's interests which most people disagree with. We have a president who fails to understand the purpose of public service is for Public Good and not personal gain. God helps us all.
6
If a signed, notarized contract stating the terms of a quid pro quo is the only proof that one exists, then corruption will thrive, unfettered. That is not how corrupt parties operate.
How can anyone argue, with a straight face, that there was no quid pro quo? The many records are clear.
8
GOP Senators: Trump clearly broke the law and claims his right to do so. What are you going to do about it?
8
If Trump is not impeached and the Senate does not convict, Trump will indeed have unleashed American Carnage. The format will be "If the president can do it, so can I." Lying and cheating will be the norm. The tax base will collapse. The country is only strong because ordinary people do the right thing. Then Trump comes along and destroys everything he touches. The trail leads out of the oval office.
5
Our president has spent his entire professional career working the legal system to his advantage. He can spin a "yes" into a "no." He has no moral compass and will destroy anyone who gets in his way. He finds resources where those with scruples would never go. The longer that he gets away with unethical behavior, the stronger he appears to his supporters. Our culture has created a monster: a master marketer in brand loyalty.
4
Why not focus on the text that refuted any quid pro quo where it is stated that President Trump and the administration is only trying to ensure that Ukraine is in fact trying to root out corruption.
1
@John Gilday - The article includes that text message, but it clearly is not in line with what everyone else was thinking. Also, if you do a little research on Sondland, you'll find that he's not exactly a neutral party. He's a republican megadonor, and he received his current position after donating,via his companies, over $1 million to the trump inauguration.
1
@John Gilday Because it's unbelievable.
1
Like any seasoned crook, Trump is smart enough to maintain some thin level of deniability -- which will be good enough for his uninformed and unpatriotic base. His ambassador to Ukraine realized the exposure the text messages were creating. After taking to Trump, he stopped the exchange of text messages. That does not mean that one-on-one conversations stopped, but these are impossible to track and prove in court. That was the dilemma Mueller faced.
The bottom line is that we have a crook as President and that his base will stand by him, no matter what. That leaves the rest of America to fight for our democracy. Stop standing at the sidelines and support Democrats wherever possible. That is the only hope left.
1
The idea that the leader of the most corrupt administration in American history is concerned about general corruption in Ukraine is beyond ludicrous. There can be no question in anyone’s mind that Trump was seeking dirt on Joe Biden and his son. In order to get this dirt he was withholding vital military assistance to Ukraine to pressure Ukraine’s president to comply with his demand. No other interpretation of the available facts is possible. The potential collateral damage from this shakedown of the Ukrainian president is extremely serious. The effect could very well be the weakening of the new Ukrainian leader to the benefit of Putin, who, by the way, is one of the worlds most corrupt leaders about whom Trump has never said a disparaging word. While I’m sure a prolonged investigation will lead to the discovery of many equally or more serious violations by Trump, Democrats need to move quickly because they have everything they need for an airtight impeachment case and public opinion is rapidly shifting in their favor. A too slow process will cause a scandal weary public to lose interest.
1
It's clear that Bill Taylor, Charge d' Affaires at the US Embassy in Ukraine, was convinced of the quid pro quo - investigate the Bidens or else. Here's a guy that's intimately involved with the situation and clearly sees it for what it is. The fired Ambassador, Marie Yovanovitch, should be able to further bolster Taylor's view. Can't wait for her testimony.
3
During the Russia interference hearings it was made out as though everybody else was to be blamed except trump. Nothing he said or did could be used against him cuz he didn’t say it or do it, someone else did it for him.
How long will trump evade responsibility. His parents never held him responsible they bailed him out each time he was in trouble. Now papa is not here nor is mummy.
1
Only a complete amateur would put the squeeze on somebody in such a way that you could easily connect them to an illegal "quid pro quo." Give credit where it is due: Trump has always been reasonably competent at running scams, intimidating people, and blaming others. (Although these current troubles make me think he might be losing it.)
2
Anyone out there still believe Trump didnt know about the July, 2016 meeting with the Russians Junior set up at Trump Tower? Clearly he perjured himself during his written testimony to Mueller. Get Kushner and Junior to testify under oath before Congress about this and nail this down. Another impeachable offense.
3
Trump stopped the flow of money for arms to the Ukraine that had already been approved by Congress in a bipartisan way. Then he asked for a favor. This is so obviously an abuse of power. It demands impeachment.
3
Why is everyone concentrating on Quid Pro Quo? It doesn't matter. Just him asking is the crime.
7
I would like to know how Trump got away with colluding with the Russians in the last election. Seems to me that is what convinced him he could do it again. He is a quick learner when it comes to deception.
2
Many U.S. citizens at some time in their life, usually for work-related reasons, have submitted to some form of psychological testing.
As a young man, on a few occasions, I worked in nuclear power plants. Each time, I was required to take a lengthy test to determine if I had mental problems which might make me a danger to the safe operation of the facility.
I’m a certified secondary school teacher. In order to gain the necessary security clearance I was psychologically tested.
I have no problems with these practices. They seem to me to be reasonable and warranted.
Over the chaotic course of Donald Trump’s term of office, on hundreds of occasions, the question has occurred to me, “How can a man so erratic, so illogical, so childish and vengeful be the POTUS?”
If an individual needs to be psychologically cleared to work at a daycare center, shouldn’t someone be checked for mental illness, personality disorders, etc. when they announce they’re seeking their party’s nomination for the presidency?!?
Mr. Trump has, over the past 35 months, displayed a behavioral psychology textbookfull of problems that should have prevented him from ever throwing his hat in the ring. The announcements, speeches and tweets he produces are clear evidence that he is psychologically unwell.
How he will cope with the Ukraine/Biden business is just one more episode of his lying, blaming, self-contradiction, excuses, irrationality, self-pity...
What should we do to insure our presidents are sane?
5
If asking for foreign assistance in GOP election campaigns is OK with mc connell & the GOP, at least they need to declare our $50 billion foreign aid budget/taxes as a political campaign donaton.
3
"So far, the House committees have interviewed just a single witness, Mr. Volker, and already uncovered information damaging to the president’s case"
Just wait until many others testify under oath as to what is going on in this administration.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
9
The Trump administration can claim from now until Doomsday that their interest is solely "transparency and reforms," but the facts before us belie that claim.
Battling corruption is about more than launching a specific investigation. It would involve changes in policy and creating and authorizing a government body to look into corruption and impose penalties.
But that's not what Trump is holding out for. He wants only specific investigations that just so happen to benefit him politically.
Surprise, surprise.
5
Quid pro quo ("something for something" in Latin) is a Latin phrase used in English to mean an exchange of goods or services, in which one transfer is contingent upon the other; "a favour for a favour". Phrases with similar meanings include: "give and take", "tit for tat", and "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours" and "one hand washes the other".
If proof exists supporting the above action, prosecute.
2
@dog lover
What he did was illegal even absent quid pro quo.
1
The meeting was contingent on a very specific statement by Zelensky (drafted by Volker). That is "quid pro quo." There is not evidence categorically demonstrating that withholding the aid was explicitly contingent on Zelensky coming through with the request (or the Ukrainian folks would have known before they did), but it is clear it was to get something from Zelensky. Mr. Taylor is probably correct about the "something"--but we do not know for certain. I tend to agree with those who don't see the impeachment reasons derailed even if the withheld aid was not explicitly tied to the request to investigate Burisma (the meeting was tied--and the meeting was valuable to Zelensky).
1
Welcome to the latest installment of Dark Energy. In today’s episode our antihero continues his quest to expand his universe of delusion and contempt.
8
Trump did not spend years in the NYC property hothouse without learning how to cover his tracks. The quid pro quo, implicit or not, is not the issue. Stop trying to make it the point.
I am reminded of the Mueller investigation. The focus should have been, in this order: did the Russians attempt to interfere in the election; if yes can the extent of that interference be estimated; if yes was there evidence of collusion or condonement or acceptance by anyone; and was there any attempt to obstruct this investigation. The Republicans made it about collusion because they knew that would be harder to prove; and as a result we have (a) the narrative that Trump was exonerated (!) and (b) the real scandal, the real interference, has been swept under the table.
Democrats in Congress: do not fall into that same trap again.
4
This news story now gets onto the front of the line, pushing back all other news we have been reading and learning. Each morning, there is something new that is coming up. We are now getting used to this routine.
More appalling is with the president, in broad day light, now asking China too to investigate on the Bidens. As far as China is concerned, Mr. Trump is only thinking of 'Tariffs". Mr. Trump forgets how else we view and perceive China. Mr. Trump, himself has said China is a threat to our country. The list is long. But, all that seems to be old story and has no validity.
1
Impeachment is a fantasy, a distraction, and a way to sell web clicks.
If American media outlets really wanted to do unbiased political reporting, would they be selling their web advertising inventory to political campaigns?
2
George Washington said it first and best in his farewell address, which I’m sure trump never read and now violates:
Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government. But that jealousy to be useful must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.
3
I read the texts. The evidence is there for all to see. Trump and his people were coercing the leader of Ukraine to help Trump interfere in our elections. From the tone of some of the texts, a few people had serious qualms, but they did nothing to stop it. I look forward to today's spin from Republicans on how these texts mean nothing, and Trump is the victim here.
3
While I agree Trump should go, I am concerned that I have seen very little on Biden’s son. What here his qualifications to be on the board and receive such a high salary? Democrats cannot take the high ground without being consistent. Otherwise, they are just being Trump.
1
Most people who sit on boards do so because they have money, connections, possibly some relevant work experience but usually the first two.
It’s a prestige appointment to be on a board, very much something for say, a child of a prominent politician who would otherwise already be in a privileged position anyway and achieving/attaining things whether they worked hard for these things...or not.
It stands to reason the difference comes down to choices made. Most board positions do pay very well to people who already have a lot of money. Just facts. Are all these board positions corrupt? No. Are a few? Possibly.
You don’t run for high office, or even think about it, unless everything has been vetted. Well...ideally. This president cheated. I doubt President Obama or VP Biden could afford to risk their legacies being tarnished w/o extreme vetting, after all the hideous things the opposition and 45 has done to them.
But there is nothing nefarious in and of itself, for the kid of a prominent American to be doing well; if anything, that’s the drill here! Sitting on boards and collecting the fees goes with that life. It is what it is. It’s just not what most ordinary people do. It is what they do.
When you talk about Quid Pro Quo, you are falling into the Republican's trap. You are making the proving of that act the standard for removal of the president from office.
The only thing we need to focus on, the only thing we need to prove, is his pressing a foreign government for political assistance.
3
The part that most of media and even common public does not seem to grasp is that Donal Trump and rest of republican party does not care about truth, quid pro quo or even integrity of election process. The only thing the republican party cares about is staying in power by any means necessary. So stop trying to appeal to republicans to do the right thing, because they wont.
3
We are not limited to one impeachment. We need to keep in mind that an impeachment is just an indictment.
If this impeachment fails to get a conviction in the Senate, another impeachment process can be started for obstruction of justice, and another for money laundering, self dealing, and bank fraud.
No need to let Trump spin the Senate vote as an exoneration.
3
Sondland tells Taylor: "The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo’s of any kind."
Does this mean the President *directed* Sondland never to make it explicit that the President wanted a Biden investigation in exchange for military aid? If so, it conveys an admission of guilt on the part of the President by suggesting he knew an explicit quid pro quo in this situation would be illegal (or, at the very least, wrong) and should be avoided.
It would also explain the chorus of unsolicited "NO QUID PRO QUO!" coming from the President and his supporters.
directing Sondland to avoid an explicit quid pro quo would provide a defense should the cover up become exposed in the media. The president could then simply repeat over and over again: "No quid pro quo!"
1
Even if there were otherwise legitimate reasons for initiating an investigation of the sort that Trump, Giuliani, etc., seem to want, what we have here is an example of what in the military justice system is known as improper command influence, and thus irretrievably tainted. If they really wanted a good-faith investigation, they would turn it over to career professionals at Justice, State, etc. and recuse themselves. Their failure to do so is all the evidence of bad faith anyone needs.
2
Trump made a federal case that it was a Perfect Call, no QPQ. But he knew at the time that he had an ongoing and illegal program to solicit dirt from Ukraine, in whole or in part with the cooperation of the State Department, his former campaign manager, and Rogue Rudy. The president would have had us believe the call was a one off thing, but in fact it was an ongoing program. So . . He Lied and he engaged in a Coverup. Plan and simple. His own words.
1
The 'quid pro quo' is that the President of the United States wants you to help him get re-elected. If you help him, you'll please him.
That's it.
And what's enough to impeach any American President is evidence that he was working to involve foreign countries to influence an American election...
Period.
2
So, a president has no right to request another country’s authorities to cooperate with US authorities to investigate crimes/corruption involving its citizens? (False, it happens all the time.) And, also, a person gets a complete pass from any and all scrutiny for their actions simply because they declare themselves a candidate for elected office? (Also false.)
Democrats, in their primary process, should be the ones looking into Biden’s abuse of office/undue influence (quid pro quo in his own characterization) instead of leaving this for Trump to have to raise. But obviously that won’t happen when it’s their team in question.
@Lex Mundi
No, a president does not have the right to request another's country's assistance when that assistance is predicated upon military aid.
Get it? Even Fox News is turning on the president. Suggest you find another source.
1
So what happens if the President of Ukraine says here is the evidence that Biden helped his son and got the prosecutor dismissed? We take out the top 2 people in the 2020 election cycle? Everyone does this... Why is everyone shocked that this goes on?
@Mark
No, they don't.
1
To reiterate: Talk of a QUID PRO QUO IS A DISTRACTION. It's THE ASKING that matters.
3
Why even pursue this line? A quid pro quo doesn't matter.
Asking for foreign assistance in your election campaign is illegal, whether it's in exchange for something or merely a polite request.
765
@ Diego @ R Johnson
Indeed. The media should take note these pleas to stop are to them about the coverage of the irrelevant.
21
@Diego
The NY Times editorial today says the same thing:
It is illegal for the president to take assistance from a foreign government in our elections.
But, in the entire editorial they never called illegal behavior by the president a High Crime.
Basically Trump has spent his entire presidency attacking the Constitution and breaking the law, while Democrats and corporate media (including the NY Times) wait for each other to accuse Trump of High Crimes.
This is not Trump's only High Crime. Trump attacks the Constitution all the time. Trump violates the Constitution all the time.
When the president:
Puts his interests above the interests of We the People.
Governs based on his whim by edict, like a king, instead of faithfully executing the law as written by Congress.
Demands personal loyalty from public servants who swore to protect the Constitution, not Trump.
Accuses his critics of being "treasonous," with no evidence.
Asks foreign governments to interfere in our elections.
Attacks U.S. Intelligence Agencies and praises the Hostile Intelligence Agency attacking our elections, INSTEAD of coordinating a defense.
Questions the citizenship of his critics.
Says he can take away birthright citizenship.
Etc.
Its a High Crime.
If every patriot does not spend the next year explaining that Trump is engaged in a blatant PATTERN of attacking EVERY principle of the Constitution so he can undo every limit on his power, the Constitution will be dead, and so will millions.
35
@Diego
"No quid pro quo" is the Ukrainian equivalent of "no collusion". Both are red herrings intended to distract from the logic of your assertion.
32
Here is the issue: “Envoys representing Mr. Trump sought to leverage the power of his office to prod Ukraine into opening investigations that would damage his Democratic opponents at home.”
Full Stop. No quid pro quo required. Trump used the office for personal gain and benefit.
The only issue congress needs to resolve is: “Can future presidents use the office for personal gain?”.
If the answer is no; then impeach.
If the answer is yes; then woe to the future of America. These actions and Citizens United ensures that the US has become an plutocracy.
54
"Folks, I heard people say if Donald Trump were to win and become President, there is another Donald Trump waiting to come out. Folks, I disagree. What you see now is what you get. If anything, he will get worse." – Barack Obama, 2016.
70
@London Calling
An excellent informative comment.
To understand what happened in 2016, an understanding of the boundries of credibility embraced by average American voters is essential.
During the primaries, the Republican convention and the general election campaign Mr. Trump’s behavior was so bizarre, so distinctly unpresidential, that millions of us believed it had to be an act.
“He’s doing this to appeal to an angry, disenfranchised segment of the electorate. If the unthinkable happens, if Trump wins, his behavior WILL change.”
Then Trump won.
And (shudder) he did not become presidential.
He continued being an obnoxious lying nutcase.
If anything, he got crazier.
I was one of the lifelong Democrats who subscribed to the naive assumptions outlined above.
I will never again make such a disasterous political error. And I have been steadfastly working against Trump’s dictatorial presidency, in my small private-citizen way, since he claimed the “largest inaugural address crowd ever assembled.”
Live and learn.
5
Please stop the quid pro quo false argument. The White House is trying to change the standard. Proof of a quid pro quo is NOT a necessary hurdle for impeachment or removal. If the President used his official office to simply ask Ukraine to investigate a political rival THATS ALL THATS NEEDED.
53
Russia is a belligerent adversary. In addition to proven interference in US elections, Great Britain’s Brexit, Hungarian elections, and other mischief, Russia invaded the Crimean portion of the Ukraine using military force, and Russia now continues a hot war in which Ukrainians are dying on their eastern front.
The Ukraine and the three Balkan states stand as a bulwark against Russian aggression.
So to see a U.S. president suspend military aid to the Ukraine for cheap political tricks is not just mind boggling it is treasonous and threatens European security.
42
If we’re going to argue the semantics, then let’s do it at Trump’s level. Ask him “Did you know it was wrong to ask a Foreign Government to interfere in our elections?”
15
No crime or unconstitutional act is simple enough or clear enough for the Trump base.
23
I suspect they know it’s illegal, and/or un-Constitutional. They simply don’t care; they think there’s a war to be won, against their fellow Americans, and all means are Just Fine. Bullying around the world? Excellent; shoulda done it before, and there are no consequences. Well, none they’ll pay any attention to.
Threats, lying, smearing, whatevs: as Charles Sykes pointed out, it’s basically nihilists who just want everybody else burned down. Oh, they’ll SAY this or that about truth, justice and the American Way, but it’s all just a clever, clever tactic.
Or, guys like Baudrillard are right, and it’s just simulations of anything real. In any case I agree: to swipe from Stephen King, this particular well has no bottom.
2
Willful ignorance, a diet of "alternative facts", and (for many) dogmatic religion are a powerful combination.
2
Doubts? Heck Trump is already getting his payoff. Ukraine announced today they are investigating the Biden thing. Ukraine needs the missiles and the money to battle Russia. So Trump’s extortion scheme worked. Even if Ukraine finds nothing in their investigation, Trump still broke the law.
17
@GCAustin
And even if Ukraine finds *something* in their investigation, Trump still broke the law. Further, any "something" they might claim to find would be suspect under the circumstances.
2
There’s your quo.
1
@GCAustin
Ukrainians soldiers are dying to protect their country against Russia. GOP does not care.
3
So what's happened to the AXIS of EVIL? They now are invited by Trump to investigate our Presidential candidates? And from the biggest crime family ever. you got to appreciate the irony. Republicans need to get rid of that ball and chain once and for all.
13
Stop focusing on quid pro quo. That is the GOP’s criteria, not the Constitution’s. It’s a good move on their part, because it makes it easier to defend Trump. Very dumb move to agree to play by that standard.
23
If Rudy was hired as a spy for Trump, then who paid Rudy and all his expenses? Did WE?
13
@karen
Interestingly, Trump is in a difficult position, regardless of whether the answer to your question is affirmative or negative; it is just the difference between a rock and a hard place. If Trump paid, as he should have, it is an admission that Giuliani's efforts have been for the personal benefit of his client, as opposed to any legitimate government purpose. If the taxpayer paid, it raises the question of why Trump's personal attorney is conducting government business.
2
Fox or Weasel in the hen house? Quisling? Demagog or demon?
Incompetent or clever?
Publicity-
2
“During the call that followed, Mr. Trump did press Mr. Zelensky to “do us a favor” and investigate supposed Ukrainian efforts to help Democrats in the 2016 presidential election...”
This is nice for a change. The Times provided the actual quote here: “do us a favor”
In all other articles, the Times mischaracterizes it as doing HIM “a favor”
3
A distinction without a difference.
2
I can’t stop thinking about how many Ukrainian soldiers died because Trump held up military aid for that country. They are real casualties in Trump’s quid pro quo political deal making. I also wonder whether Trump ever intended to send military aid to Ukraine in the first place. After all Ukraine was fighting Russia. Everyone knows how Trump feels about Russia.
11
As this is actually a fight for public opinion when it is clear quid pro quo is not necessary for impeachment but makes it more palatable, let's call it what it really is, extortion, plain and simple.
13
Most interesting are the parts of the exchange where Sondland suggests switching from texting to speaking on the phone. Clearly he was concerned about the text thread being made public and, understanding that it is far easier to cover up wrongdoing, suggested a phone call instead.
That he late in the exchange insists no "quid pro quo" contradicts his earlier statement that "I think potus really wants the deliverable" or the goods on Biden's son.
No one wins with Trump. It's interesting that given the evidence so many people are willing to debase themselves.
The only close to stand up person in this whole fiasco is the acting ambassador or the only non political appointee, Bill Taylor, who knows exactly what's up and says so. At least he willing to quit.
9
According to my reading of Willifred Bion's group psychology, Trump is no longer the emotional leader. The democrats are emotional leader and they have become work leaders.
That is why Trump is so flustered. He has lost control.
Let us hope this trend continues
7
This is as close to a slam-dunk as possible. President Trump has shared the transcript of his conversation with a foreign leader and, to avoid any misunderstanding, repeated his request for election interference on camera. His personal attorney has done the same on television. No deep throats or fancy sleuthing by Woodward and Bernstein required here.
I am not sure what more the poor man can do to incriminate himself. Holding hearings, unearthing text messages and so forth seems like overkill when he has basically confessed to the act.
6
"Trump Denies Quid Pro Quo for Ukraine, but Envoys Had Their Doubts"
I don't read anywhere in the text message that either Taylor or Volker "had their doubts" about this.
Rather, it's clear they were convinced it was a quid pro quo.
7
Mr Trump appears to not being forthright.
There was Quid Pro Quo for Ukraine.
But, the exchange was apparently not what Mr Trump asked for.
Mr Trump did not want to hear his fabrications are pure fantasy.
1
The author is falling into the White House pit. Quid Pro Quo is a legal term. It is not necessary for impeachment. Foreign interference into elections is the impeachable offense, among many. Stop the confusion. Treat these as separate issues.
12
Trump the anti-globalist says that nations should put their own interests first.
So why doesn't he understand that any "favor" he receives form a foreign government will be designed to produce whatever outcome that government wants, not what the United States or Donald Trump wants?
5
It would be really appreciated if "Sleepy Joe" awakened to the fact that Donald Trump is running away with the messaging here. Every day that Biden remains silent is another day that Trump has to solidify the premise that the Bidens were involved in some corrupt act.
He should check with his Democratic colleagues to see how they handled their response to the Mueller report and ask if they felt that was effective. The GOP ran hard and strong on their own narrative while the Democrats stood by. And the result was the death of a very incriminating report.
Apparently the results of that were not a learning experience for Joe and his son. In fact, all of the Democratic leadership should be involved in the development and execution of a strong, fact-based and sustained rebuttal here. Otherwise the result of this is a foregone conclusion.
2
@TomQ
Trump blusters, fumes, rants and attacks those he sees as opponents. On the other hand, Biden has calmly denied any nepotism or guilt in his dealings with Ukraine. To me, Biden is, by far, the more believable of the two.
2
@Tom Q
Anything Joe and/or Hunter might say could be discounted as self-serving. Someone else should be doing the talking for them. The other Democrats in the primary race can be especially effective, as defending Biden runs counter to their self-interest in the normal course of things.
1
Perhaps the House needs to take a clue from our cable service and consider a bundled impeachment. House members might gain a lot more "customers" if they combined articles of impeachment against trump, pompeo, barr and pence. Package deals sell these days.
6
Trump doesn’t understand what quid pro quo means. He’s honestly confused what he did wrong. Of course, maybe he should have read the Constitution he swore to defend. Or had it read it to him.
5
Manipulation/Exploitation.
Jordan, Nunez, Graham, Giuliani use Trump’s ignorance of the U.S. Constitution and his hunger for more power and convey to him that as President he has the right to do anything, and deliberately and maliciously support his ignorance, feed him praise, conspiracy theories and narratives of false evidence. Those that manipulate and exploit his ignorance and help him find justifications for his lack of ethical behavior surround him. He in turn uses his powerful presidential office to navigate envoys, receivers of US support, and the fearful toward behavior that will actually benefit Jordan, Nunez, Graham, Giuliani, and God knows who else. Now when his behavior is challenged he claims he sees nothing wrong with “suggesting” to the fledgling democracy of Ukraine and “suggesting” to the much more powerful China, that they will get support and/or considerations if they investigate a political enemy for corruption. He believes that unethical manipulation is OK to use because a crime of corruption is greater than his unethical behavior. After all his “best people” tell him so.
Should we feel sorry for him, forgive him, live with him? No, we should not. The U.S. Constitution, our democracy and we the citizens are so much more important.
4
Schiff is brilliant. Pelosi is a skilled and effective politician. But the American electorate is not sophisticated enough to understand how nefariously Trump has acted. Every incoherent word out of Trump's mouth muddies the impeachable offenses he's committed. The Dems need to focus more on the hashtag war and simplify their message while continuing the excellent work they are doing in the House.
11
When history is written, describing the Trump administration, it may very well conclude that President Donald J. Trump, the 45th POTUS, was working to advance the Russian President’s, at the time, Vladimir Putin, agenda. Such agenda was clearly detrimental to the US interest and took several presidents to restore the US’s standing, domestically and on the international stage.
8
Truth is there is no way to impeach Trump.
Republicans wont do it.
So the only thing this leads to is more wasting of time and bashing of Trump.
I am a democrat and I see my party is way way off.
This will help Trump. It wont hurt him.
Democrats should be focused on winning the election not bashing Trump.
1
@Paul Schejtman --
You mean the election he will rig, with the "help" of the foreign governments he strong-armed?
1
@Paul Schejtman
Congratulations. I have been reading NYT comments daily since 2016. I think the one to which I’m now responding is as enigmatic and melodramatic as any I’ve ever read. If you’d taken the time to reveal the identity of Kaisur Sose, you could have scored an unprecedented solid 10.0.
Your claims are presented with remarkable assurance, however they are not substantiated.
You appear certain of things which are not actually knowable.
—Trump is unimpeachable. (Every president is.)
—The Republicans will/won’t... (There are 55 million registered Republicans. You must have a huge crystal ball to keep track of them all.)
—Taking action on Trump’s impeachable offenses is a waste of time. (Wow!)
—Revealing Trump’s treachery, his crimes, his deceit and his lack of character - only makes him stronger. It’s a mistake and waste of time to consider these things.
I am a lifelong Democrat, the son and grandson of lifelong Pennsylvania Democrats.
As I’m ignoring the president’s actions, refraining from “bashing” Trump, and fearing the monomaniacally predictable Republicans, what in the world should I do to focus on “winning the election?” Blow up balloons? Apologize as I offer people Democrat bumper stickers? (Don’t want to rile the Republicans!)
For a democrat, you give very Republican advice.
1
For Trump and his cronies to accuse anyone else of corruption in the international arena would be funny if it wasn't so incredibly strange that about 40% of Americans appear to continue to buy into his narrative, which is itself incoherent. This a president who is SO concerned with border security that he wants poor migrants shot if they try to cross the Southern border, but has invited other states to investigate his political opponents. How's that for securing borders? He stuff his own pockets by requiring international visitors to stay at his hotels and his own VP to stay at one when abroad....and has a fit when he finds out that Democrats might serve on foreign corporate boards? Corruption is the man's middle name: Donald (C) Trump.
4
Repeat after me: A quid pro quo is not necessary for this to be impeachable. Solicitation is enough.
It will be classic Dem ineptitude and GOP obfuscation if the litmus test for impeachment becomes whether there was a quid pro quo - because it will always be at least a little fuzzy. View the quid pro quo as essentially a bonus round, not a requirement.
A quid pro quo is not necessary for this to be impeachable. Solicitation is enough.
9
trump is using 'no quid pro quo' in the same way he used 'no collusion.' It's a smokescreen. The fact that he was saying 'no quid pro quo' as this negotiation was going down makes it obvious he had been advised about the legal ramifications. So he worded things the way a mafia don might to keep himself in the clear... but let's hope the American justice system holds a president more accountable. The definition of high crimes and misdemeanors is a violation of public trust, which clearly trump cares not one whit about in this and almost every dealing he's involved in.
4
May I suggest "Trump Lies Again About Latest Scandal" as the title for this article?
It can be re-used as often as necessary.
6
I see we're at the "it happened, but wasn't illegal" phase, next up is the "it was illegal, but I'm president so what" phase.
5
Of course POTUS made demands, subtly or not so— however you interpret.
Do people really think he is unique? Do people REALLY think previous POTUSes had no play in that kind of game, nuanced or otherwise? Good lord.
I’m not a fan, but it’s naive to think he will not fight dirty in a game thats, well, pretty dirty.
Just vote and change the players.
@In the middle -- Nope, irrelevant.
No more "what abouts."
And how do we feel confident voting in an election that he's rigging, with the help of foreign governments he is threatening or bribing?
Trump’s whole response to this debacle is what a long-ago boss of mine would have called the “I shot the sheriff, but I didn’t shoot the deputy” defense.
5
Trump doesn't know how to even spell: culpability, responsibility, buck, ethics, guilt, or any term that describes moral development.
7
Apparently, most of the commenters herein have not actually read the texts. In the very last exchange Ambassador Sondland writes, "The president has been crystal clear no quid pro quo's of any kind." It is a contemporaneous and candid expression of the president's intention. Case closed.
2
@Charles Oh yeah, because he will say so explicitly , right ?! Give me a break!
5
@Charles Apparently, you neglected to actually read anything else in the story.
" “Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?” he asked Mr. Sondland in a text message on Sept. 1.
“Call me,” Mr. Sondland replied."
Valiant effort, though. You get a "C" for trying.
5
@Charles --
Huh, so I guess Wilson was in full charge through his entire presidency, FDR wasn't in a wheelchair, JFK never had an affair, Nixon wasn't a crook, Clinton really didn't know the definition of "is" ...
However, I'll agree that the case is closed at this point -- just not the way you believe it to be.
4
Mr. Taylor, the top American diplomat, thinks "it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign”.
It's not crazy at all. It's deliberate and it's treason.
12
That what appears to be the most corrupt, 'crooked' person to ever occupy the oval is on a mission to investigate and root out corruption and 'terrible people' in our country by seeking assistance from another country, is both galling and hilarious. According to trump's logic, we should ask Russia to help us with the impeachment inquiry.
7
Ukraine should be indicting Trump for extortion.
There's evidence of Trump's criminality everywhere you look.
Do you REALLY think Trump will turn over ANYTHING to the House of Representatives if they take that vote that Trump says they must take?
How gullible do you think we are?
Trump has committed HUNDREDS of impeachable offenses.
The House of Representatives should pass an article of impeachment of each and every offense.
Hundreds of articles of impeachment.
The list grows longer every day.
3
is it possible that djt is so menatlly ill at this moment in time, that he is INCAPABLE of even considering that his words and actions are inappropriate?
7
@bob lesch -- Yes. Yes it is.
Not just possible, but probable, from the look of things.
2
Can we also have a review of donations from the Ukraine to Schiff? Suddenly he was in favor of funding to the Ulraine.
@Jackson
Maybe we should have Hillary investigate Trumps family positions and China trade special privileges? I think it’s a good idea to get the corruption and we know she will get to the bottom of it.
2
@Jackson The vote to send military aid to Ukraine was bipartisan and took place well before the phone call and contacts by US officials to pressure Zelensky. Trump-stopped- the transfers- an unusual move.
5
@Jackson -- Irrelevant.
What the president has done is the issue. What others may or may not have done is not meaningful in determining his guilt. We're not going to be distracted by your "what-abouts" anymore.
1
"President Trump has repeatedly denied that there was any quid pro quo attached to his pressure on Ukraine..."
Which is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT!
Acting under official cover he dangled the threat of withholding hundreds of millions of dollars in vital military aid unless Ukraine helped dig up dirt on Biden & Son.
Aside from the fact that's extortion, soliciting a "thing of value" from a foreign national is a Federal crime.
The letter of the law is quite clear: "It shall be unlawful for a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national." - 52 U.S. Code § 30121
As soon as he uttered the infamous words, "I'd like you to do us a favor though...", he broke the law.
And the GOP's response?
Crickets...
6
No—Not clear at all. Can you please point us to the bank account where the alleged ‘contribution or donation’ was deposited? The statue was clearly intended to cover financial benefit — it does not to apply to a request of official cooperation between two countries via their law enforcement agencies to investigate alleged criminal behavior.
I give it, oh, 48-72 hours before Trump says, out loud
(probably at another press conference) something along these lines: "There's no problem asking for help or rewarding our allies for doing it! That's my job as President, to drain the swamp in DC! Corrupt Democrats brought this on themselves."
Normalizing that abnormal, the inappropriate, and the just plain wrong (while lying like rugs) is what this guy and his administration do. And they do it better than anyone else has ever done it, from what I can tell.
Meanwhile, our democracy lies like so much roadkill on the highway to this next election.
2
Of course trump denies it but we know he's lying and he's marketing his defense.
Full speed ahead Democrats.
6
I pity the next occupant of the White House. The stink will linger for some time once Trump is gone. The air freshener bill will need to be a budget line item.
Dear Democrats please nominate a reasonable candidate on a sensible platform with no radical planks. If you do this the voters will do the rest.
4
"Fair and Balanced" has degenerated into repeating one side's KNOWN lies and falsehoods on TV, internet and in print
4
"Do us a favor." Really? Mario Puzo could have written the playbook for the Trump Administration.
I’m sure, in Pinocchio’s mind, because he never uttered the words “quid pro quo” there is no problem. This is normal behavior for him.
What is more appalling is the behavior of his supporters. Let’s just say, for the sake of argument, that Joe Biden is guilty of......whatever and that Adam Schiff knew about all of this 4 weeks ago. What!? Does that somehow nullify our President asking for foreign assistance in our elections??
Where are the politicians that can stand on principal without resorting to a toddlers debating tactics? God help us all!
3
The Republicans' "quid pro quo" argument is irrelevent & a smoke screen! Here's what Lindsey Graham himself had to say about impeachment, back when he was a Congressman during the Clinton impeachment:
“You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime in this constitutional republic if this body determines your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.” – Jan. 16, 1999
5
Trump is a master "Gaslighter".
Gaslighting is a common autocratic leadership style practiced by abusers, dictators, narcissists, & cult leaders. The term comes from the movie “Gaslight” (1944).
Trump constantly tells blatant lies, so we are unsure if anything he says is true. Then he denies he said something, even when video proof is shown.
Trump appeals to his supporters' fears. He wears us down over time. His actions never match his words. Deflection is his forte. His uses words as meaningless diversions. He uses positive reinforcement to confuse us, to keep us with a sense of uneasiness. He sows confusion, to weaken us.
Trump uproots & make us constantly question everything. He projects his faults on us, believing this distracts from his own wretched behavior. He is a master manipulator & pathological liar, who enjoys mob rule.
He is dismissive. He is purposely abusive & out-of-control. He cries “fake news”. By screaming that everyone else is a liar, it again makes us question our reality.
The more we are aware of Trump’s techniques, the quicker we can identify them & avoid falling into his trap.
Thin of it. Trump has told over 12,000 lies since assuming office. By all measure, Trump is a failure in all meaningful roles of a US President. He is America's embarrassment.
17
Trump must think "quid pro quo" means "eating squid."
9
“Trump distraction syndrome” at it’s very best.
Trump: “We are going over to Walter Reed to give out Purple Hearts, please respect the process and don’t ask any questions”.....
Unbelievable!
4
When you read the text messages, also in todays NYT, this an not a smoking gun — this is TRUMP SELLING AMERICA for personal gain.
Republicans — Is this not miscue of the Office of the President for Turmp’s personal gain??? !!!
Do your duty to our America.
7
Pull back the lens: Putin has Trump right where he wants him. Putin has this country right where it wants it as well. He's a clever & cunning man. Europe has never underestimated him. We have.
11
Republicans, you are seriously abusing your relationship with voters! You are either unbelievably disassociated from the concerns of western, INDEPENDENTS and moderates or you are unbelievably BOUGHT.
We are not stupid, but we are threatened and fatigued with Donald J. Trump's profound mental illness.
Get with it GOP or it will be we Independents and moderates who lead the charge to rid this nation of Republicans, bottom to top-vote'em out!
9
For such a brilliant, stable minded individual, Trump sure is stupid. The reason he uses Giuliani is because the man licks Trumps boots, which is a necessary element to be included in Trump's posse of thieves, liars and cheats.
And what has happened to Jared, Ivanka and Donnie Jr.? Why aren't they standing up for dear old dad? Quiet oddly, it's very silent on the nepotism train these days. Have all the kiddos jumped ship?
11
The Democrats need to be careful. Joe Biden has plenty of proverbial 'skeletons in his closet'. Following regime change in 2014, Joe’s son, Hunter Biden joined the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian natural gas company. Although Hunter had no apparent qualifications or relevant experience in the energy field, he was paid $50K/month.
From Moon of Alabama- ‘There are some serious questions around the Biden family involvement in the Ukraine…… The first regards the ownership of the company, which hired Joe Biden's son Hunter for an exorbitant amount of money while Joe Biden ran the U.S. Ukraine policy. The second question is about the firing of the Viktor Shokin, the former Prosecutor General of the Ukraine. Trump accuses Joe Biden of having intervened in favor of his son's sponsor to get Shokin fired. The timeline below supports that assertion.’
Notes
1. Hunter Biden, the black sheep who might accidentally bring down Trump, explained. A troubled guy at the center of the fake scandal that became a real scandal. By Matthew Yglesias Vox Oct 1, 2019; Link: www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/1/20891510/hunter-biden-burisma-ukraine-shokin
2. When Ukraine's Prosecutor Came After His Son's Sponsor Joe Biden Sprang Into Action Oct 03, 2019; Link: www.moonofalabama.org/2019/10/biden-timeline.html#more
@Paul --
Irrelevant. No more "what-aboutism" will be tolerated or responded to.
What the president did by withholding military aid and a meeting until there was some commitment on the part of the Ukrainian government to comply with his demands for an "investigation" of the family member of a political rival is treasonous. Simple as that.
Hunter may have acted improperly. Seems strange to bring this up years and years later. But Trump HAS broken the law and provided evidence of his own wrongdoing.
1
There were crystal clear quid pro quo deals involved: 1) military aid which had been halted, and 2) the release of a statement about investigations being opened in return for phone calls and a meeting with Trump.
A rose is a rose is a rose. This was a quid pro quo, and Trump was attempting to extort a foreign government through the reward or withholding of favors (that were not his to authorize) in return for corrupt election help. It is illegal to obtain help in an election from a foreign government. You cannot redefine corruption to make it disappear from reality.
7
I took a quick look at text messages between Diplomat Taylor, special envoy Volker and businessman Sondland.
Though the stream of text messages concludes with Sondland stating POTUS does not want an appearance of quid pro quo between White House demands and Ukrainian investigation, the fact is that the whole conversation positions Volker as a member of a team endeavoring to get the Ukrainians to state a position about investigating Burisima.
Mr. Trump believes that if he says something then it is true even though on its face it is not true.
The stream of texts does not exonerate Volker; the only guy looking reasonable in all of this is Diplomat Taylor who says "it's crazy" to attach military aid to a political investigation into Burisima, the company Hunter Biden worked for.
2
This headline should read:
"Trump Denies Quid Pro Quo But This Is Not The Issue"
Trump, as under-educated and behaviorally-challenged as he seems, is a master of blowing semantic smoke.
This is a word that all Americans should ponder: SEMANTIC.
Like "nihilist" and moral nihilist, Americans need to know the meaning of these concepts in order to see through his proverbial smoke screen. Being inquisitive, skeptical, questioning his motives is not negative. It's to be expected. It's also necessary.
9
Fox News is pushing the Biden story hard, and that's the story that a lot of Middle America is getting. We need to find a way of countering Trump's slander, too.
Or perhaps simply nominate Elizabeth Warren...
6
I cringe every time I see Giuliani mentioned. He was conducting our foreign policy on behalf of Trump as a private citizen?
He will ide behind the state department's commucations to him, but I hope he pays a very dear price, along with many others for his conduct.
3
In a truly unbiased process, Hunter Biden and Jared Kushner would be investigated side-by-side. But only an Independent can see that.
3
@BlackJack
Oh now they wouldn't.
Biden did nothing wrong.
Jared? Not sure about that.
3
@BlackJack -- In a truly unbiased process, what other people might have done would not be seen as justifying or excusing the president's illegal behavior.
No more what-aboutism.
President Trump's view of what constitutes a quid pro quo is irrelevant.
1. This is not a criminal trial, where intention might be mitigating; it's an initial impeachment process
2. DJT subscribes to the theory that if the President does it, it cannot be wrong.
3. DJT lacks the intellectual tual and moral capacity to judge his own actions.
4. The crime "speaks for itself": the document released by the President's own WH, yesterday's urging that China investigate the Bidens, and now the text trail from the envoy are perfectly clear evidence.
He will be impeached and I think the chances of a Senate conviction are growing.
Conviction or not his goose is cooked.
3
Had their doubts? They treated as a baseline condition!
1
It should not be allowed that a US elected President has their unelected private lawyer directly lobbying foreign governments. This seems like an inappropriate mixing of public and private business. Does anybody else think that Guliani meeting with foreign leaders is wrong? Maybe it should be illegal? Congress?
3
If the GOP has to choose between remaining in power and maintaining a democracy, they will choose power. Our country is in grave danger. If Trump remains in office and is allowed to use the powers of the presidency to warp the next election, we will have lost our grip on democracy and fallen in line with Putins kleptocracy.
4
“Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump’s intentions,” Mr. Sondland replied. “The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo’s of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign.”
And there you have it; the definitive denial by the Trump representative. Not only is there not a quid pro quo (more smokescreen like "no collusion), but we have Sondland asserting that the effort to shakedown the Ukrainians for "a favor...though..." is only about getting the Ukrainians to end corruption (not really).
However, all the information in this article represents Volker as a sincere advocate for Ukraine, and the rest of the reporting on the text message stream clearly shows the "shakedown," pure and simple. (What's the legal term of art for 'shakedown?')
Forget trying to think like a prosecutor and prove a 'quid pro quo' and instead keep your eye on the 'shakedown.'
No matter what, it is all very un-presidential, which is enough to impeach on. But the point coming from the GOP and Barr, Jordan et al, if it ain't a bald-faced legal violation, then there is no problem there / here...over there.
2
It is ILLEGAL to ask a foreign entity to intervene in a political election.
Donald says, "Wouldn't it be great if we got along better with Russia?" Yes, it would, Donald, but it would also be great if you quit begging our adversaries for election help.
3
The Dems..as they found out with the Mueller report, the Kavanaugh debacle and their other so-called "outrages", somehow still do not understand that while it is easy to have "fake outrage" and make claims about alleged "illegal" dealings...it is infinitely much harder to prove any of their outrageous claims (which, we all know, don't really have any bearing on reality)
But this really isn't the point.
The point is, the Left needs to continue its unfounded attacks on the Right and on this President because
All of this impeachment noise, "abuse of power" etc is not what they care about.
They only care about winning in 2020 -at all costs. That's it - nothing else matters.
But they are too scarred, embarrassed and enraged to say this out loud.
Very sad course they're on...and they know it.
2
@DB
Yes, we do care about winning in 2020. And the reason we care is the well being of our country. Is it necessary for me to enumerate the evils perpetrated by trump, his administration, and his supporters? If you are really unaware of these things, respond in any way you can and I will provide you with guidance.
1
The are following the GOP Benghazi playbook. One that worked well for Trump. How can you blame them?
If Republicans are so concerned about Biden's alleged impropriety, why did they not open an investigation in 2016 when they had full control of the government? If the corruption was so bad, why did they wait 3 years to pressure Ukraine to investigate? Why is Rudy Giuliani involved at all?
5
Stop talking about a Quid pro Quo. It’s a Trump deflection talking point that is not required for a wrongdoing in this matter.
5
@Phil
The quid pro quo is obvious. It is right there. Trump was holding up arms support to Ukraine, which they sorely needed, until they "did him a favor", which was a public statement saying they were investigating the Bidens and the origins of the 2016 investigation of Russia.
If "quid pro quo" is too confusing, just call it a shakedown.
The search for a "quid pro quo" in this affair is largely irrelevant. Our popular vote losing president (by behavior not design) has become a master of defining deviance down, to use a phrase coined by the late Patrick Moynihan. Although the clear evidence already known pretty obviously shows that the president was demanding a quid pro quo, the need to find one is unnecessary and largely being used by his reflexive supporters as a distraction and an attempt to move the goalposts. Merely using the foreign policy of the United States as an instrument of his personal political campaign is not only a clear abuse of office, lickspittles like Lindsey Graham to the contrary, and, although largely ignored by the media, simply illegal. US law prohibits the acceptance or solicitation of anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a US election. The president has violated this law repeatedly in public. (Yes, the Barr DOJ recently declined to pursue this crime based on its determination that the Ukrainian affair did not involve anything of value. This determination is, frankly, ludicrous.)
"Envoys had their doubts"??? No, envoys explicitly spelled out the quid pro quo. It's right there, in the texts. Zelensky doesn't get a meeting unless he commits to do X, Y, Z.
The coverage lately has been so soft. We have the call transcript where Trump is asking for an investigation of his political rival. We have the texts confirming Trump was withholding foreign aid until Ukraine agreed to investigate Trump's political rival. So there ya go. Corruption of the highest order.
5
Donald Trump will deny everything- even if he is thrown in jail , he will still deny, even if he is actually impeached, he will continue to deny all his wrongdoings because it is the only thing that he knows how to do under these circumstances. Stop paying so much attention to the reactions of this Narcissist in Chief who has done already extraordinary damage to our country. Start paying attention to the impeachment process and the logical sequence of events which will eventually be his undoing.
A person who cannot tell right from wrong , a person who shows no remorse or responsibility for his actions is commonly referred to in our society as a sociopath.
Pay attention to the people who are in their right mind and want to get this country right in the face of all the wrongs that have been committed.
1
Meanwhile, if you can keep up (I can't), the most recent reporting is that Ukraine has, in fact, agreed to open (reopen) investigations into the 2016 election and Joe and Hunter Biden. And, the DOJ is investigating the same as possible corruption.
At this point, I have to detox from reading about this Ukraine story, and move on to having anxiety about the 2020 election.
13 months until the election. That's like a century with these news cycles.
Trump World is already, and somewhat successfully, harming Biden's chances, and Trump World will use every dirty trick in the book to wreck the reputation of every Dem candidate who gets more than 5% in the polls. And, anyone who might be the VP candidate will get the same treatment.
It will be the ugliest 13 months in election history.
Only solution: Try not to worry about the ups and downs. Just vow to vote Blue, up and down the ballot. No excuses for not voting. If you can't early vote, or absentee vote, call in sick on Election Day, or use a vacation day. Yes, I know, that could mean lost pay, but do you want Trump for a second term? Start calling your local DNC officials now, to make sure you will be registered to vote. Or, you can check it out online.
And, take deep breaths; we're going to need a lot of self-calming.
2
I firmly believe that now is the right time for Impeachment Marches across the country.
Let's organize!
NYT, are you able to help research and publish who our local contacts are, and help organize and coordinate? I'm not finding anything on my own. Thanks in advance.
3
Giuliani will be thrown under the bus. Trump will claim he was mislead and will knife Giuliani in the back. He'll go back to claiming he's not a politician and was duped by his personal attorney and "America's mayor." It's interesting that much of this seems like New York politics.
3
Trump says "he did nothing wrong". This is meaningless. He doesn't appear to know the difference between right and wrong!
4
Why would anyone believe Trump's denials?
Or, for that matter, why would anyone believe anything that Trump says?
Or, for that matter, why would anyone believe anything that anyone in Trump's administration says?
27
It's pretty simple. Asking the question, this supposed "favor," clearly shows something was asked to be done to get something else. It isn't about trump's intentions at all or if there was a quid pro quo.
The question was asked. And investigation by another country was desired into a publicly declared candidate of another party. Don't let Republicans get on this other track about, aw, he didn't mean nothing by it. Don't ever forget the central problem, the impeachable act, is asking the question at all.
7
Explicit.
trump orders his envoys to "make Ukraine an offer they can't refuse." The texts prove they Envoys clearly understood it was a QPQ (quid pro quo). (That's why Marie Yovanovitch was recalled-she wasn't 'on board' as it were.)
The Envoys were unable to convince Ukraine to sign a QPQ agreement, the one that the Envoys knew was a QPQ.
Implicit.
That's when the stable genius negotiator who chooses his words very carefully had to step, do the Envoy's job for them by delivering his message personally in his special code talk; already primed by his Envoy's and Giuliani's failed attempts.
Explicit.
It is illegal, against the law, wrong, to hold back foreign aid in exchange for foreign interference.
It is illegal, against the law, wrong, for a U.S. president to seek foreign assistance in a U.S. election.
Cue Pelosi.
15
@LivingWithInterest
The request was illegal, regardless of QPQ, implicit or otherwise.
1
@CB . Agreed. trump is abusing his role and power.
Come to think of it, McConnell, Graham, Jordan, Nunes and Ratcliffe are also abusing trump's role and power, aka, being complicit!
It's difficult even calling *45 a LIAR when he really has no internal foundation of what truth is.
He will say what he needs to say to get what he wants whenever he needs to win an argument. Period. He lives a zero sum life. We all must lose for him to win. It doesn't matter if he contradicts himself from one minute to the next.
If the Republicans say nothing and give tacit approval to Trump asking foreign countries (or our own law enforcement services) to investigate and harass his political opponents, then that's game over. We no longer have a democracy, in any shape or form. Putin wins.
In a take on what Super-commentator "Socrates" says:
R for Reverse, D for Democracy.
14
What is clear to me is this. Prior to becoming president, Mr. Trump had developed a way of operating in the world to run his real estate empire that may have been okay in the business world, although quite a bit on the shady side, but is not appropriate for a public servant or politician. And yet it is a slippery line between the two -- in order to get things done, people have to work together and collaborate and that means reciprocation. But Trump really doesn't understand the nuances or subtleties of the difference between public service and self-dealing. I think its why he thinks the conversation was 'perfect'. He really can't tell the difference.
15
We have Trump's own words as evidence, we have documents, we now have text messages, and there is more to come. The timeline and picture is much clearer than what went on with Russia in 2016. My fear is that if the Dems wait too long to impeach it will give Trump time to muddy things up enough that the Republicans will feel justified in not getting on board. Trump is good at one thing - survival. He knows how to turn damaging stories around, he blames others for his own wrongdoing, he makes confusion, he keeps an arms length distance most of the time. For him it's one big reality show that keeps him in the limelight. The Dems need to move quickly, present the facts we know, and 'cancel' his 'show'.
542
@mak
All true, but his techniques of obfuscation only work on those who want to be misled. The rest of us see right through them. He probably knows that, and is hoping there are enough of the former.
42
@mak
Republican's know this. Why do you think McCarthy is pleading with Pelosi to delay, delay, delay and hold an (unmandated) vote to start the proceedings. He made the same request the White House made.
36
@mak, what makes this situation maddeningly frustrating, is that, as Michael Cohen explained, Trump communicates in code such that there is no directive, per se and instead we have to infer the direction. That give Trump and his supporters latitude to claim, however implausibly, "he never said that" which is all the wiggle room they need to provide Trump with political cover. Sad!
28
“The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign, I suggest we stop the back and forth by text...”
When two individuals are discussing something, and one of them hints to the other that the conversation shouldn’t continue via documentable, text message, it’s not generally a sign that there’s no, “there there.”
It is something that amateur criminals tend to do when they forget to speak in code, however.
31
A reminder to federal officials:
There is no limit on the number of individuals who can use the whistleblower statute.
If you think you were involved in unlawful activity as a result of a directive from Mr. Obama or Mr. Brennan, now is the time to report it.
4
Sure, but let’s remember, Mr. Obama isn’t the guy in office currently. Let’s try not to lose focus.
3
@JQGALT
Yeah. That silence is deafening. Can you hear it?
3
@JQGALT
Another Republican wanting to re-litigate the 2008 and 2012 elections.
4
Trump is relying on the old saying: Where there is smoke; there is fire. But he is the one blowing the smoke to create the impression. For every accusation of wrongdoing on his part, he holds up a carnival of mirrors to reflect the accusations onto his accusers and anyone else he wants to destroy as a threat or a rival.
Trump is well aware of the power of suggestion when it comes to suspicion and innuendo. The more he fans the smoke around the Bidens, the less attention is paid to his very efficient consumption of the nation's political, economic and spiritual energies.
Trump is a master of this strategy. He knows what he is doing by exploiting the weaknesses of human nature to believe the worst about people he wants to smear and debilitate. The media have a duty to stop being the machine that is pumping his smoke for him. They need to do a better job of filtering and scrubbing to keep the smoke out of the eyes of the public.
9
Mr. Zelensky clearly has Trump figured out. He likely sees the broader political landscape. It isn't in Ukraine's best interest to alienate either the Democrats in Congress, who appropriate the military aid on which Ukraine depends, or the possible future U.S. president, who will be a better ally against Russia.
5
This is all fun and games until Adam Schiff releases the full transcript of yesterday's session. Enjoy.
2
The problem with the current occupant of the White House is that he believes whatever he says to be true.
"The President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo's of any kind" is totally irrelevant. Everyone else involved in the discussions understood that there were clear things being offered in exchange for other things.
He and his team were shaking down the Ukrainians to get help in defeating a political rival. How much plainer does it need to be?
12
I am enjoying watching Trump squirm. He rants daily and has actually had to work a bit to get his dissembling message to the level where the press and many other apologists have at least a shred of sanity to point at.
He lies and commits crimes (openly some times) and he has never ever been held accountable and it is because we are not a country of laws. We never have been and Trump exposes that daily. Look how easily our so called institutions bowed to the dictator. It is because none of them believe in laws. They believe in power and money.
6
Why would a Putin ally want to give aid to the Ukraine?
10
@Carole
There are two Ukraines - one Russia-aligned and one EU/West aligned. And the US has been involved in a struggle between them since 2014. It gets messier by the day.
4
@Carole: Precisely. That's why Trump held up the $391 million in aid that Congress had appropriated, without ever providing an explanation.
It's enough that he asking, multiple times, for foreign governments to find dirt to sabotage his election opponent.
9
Ambassador Sondland is known for causing mischief for Trump and Pompeo. Other than his work on getting Ukraine to come up with false stories about the Bidens, in return for US military aid, Trump donor Sondland is also Trump & Pompeo's US lead, in talks with EU member countries regarding the U.S.'s decertification & withdrawal from the Iran Nuclear Deal. Sondland has repeatedly criticized EU member countries’ creation of a “special purpose vehicle” (SVP) to bypass Trump's U.S. sanctions on Iran. Sondland, because of his heritage, is committed to Pompeo & Netanyahu's plan for creating a US war with Iran.
6
@Joe...A war whose likelihood is in direct proportion to Trump's impeachment woes.
May we conclude that the reason why Trump was not aggressive in protecting our future elections is because he likes asking other countries to mess with our elections so he can be reelected? Because he realizes he is too weak to win on his own merits. Because he thinks the world loves him or at least respects him because he can extort their behavior in exchange for a tariff deal or worse-- so he can dangle the possibility that a nation like Ukraine will be conquered by the Russians if the Ukrainians wont do what he wants.
What Trump wants is information to smear Joe Biden. There is no requirement that it be true. Manufactured trash is perfectly fine for Trump and for Republicans too.
15
Into the 'sand box' we go again. Trump is clearly guilty and clearly lying, once again.
11
Trump doesn’t care about the corruption within his own administration. Why would he care about Ukraine’s?
20
Trump, Barr, Pompeo, and other complicit Republicans are trying out a new strategy they call “implausible deniability”.
They are creating a complete fantasy world and trying to sell it to the American People.
It is certainly a case of “are you going to believe me, or your lying eyes?”.
It is easy to see why Trump’s cons have worked for him for so long.
The time has come to put and end to it.
The rule of law must prevail.
15
It is indeed, crazy to believe Zelensky didn't know that Congress had voted the aid package, that Trump had held it up, and that Trump knew Zelensky knew. Quid pro quos don't always have to be explicit.
9
@Dr CC. They seldom are according to prosecutors.
1
If OUR envoys interpreted Trump as possibly asking for a quid pro quo, why wouldn't Ukraine draw the same conclusion?
10
Has anyone noticed that there hasn't been a peep of rebuttal or pushback about this newest revelation from the White House, the Republicans in Congress, or the Rightwing Media Cabal?
That's because this evidence is irrefutable!
8
Republicans: Is this how you want all foreign policy to be waged in YOUR future?
Do you not think your voters are beginning to find out that Trump is BUYING VOTES from foreign governments???
Act or be voted out yourselves.
8
Dear reporters,
Since Trump has been going around asking Ukraine and China to investigate Biden, and he even said, "if it were me, I would investigate Biden," my question is: when are going to ask Trump whether he has suggested, intimated, hinted, directed or encouraged his own DOJ to investigate Joe & Hunter Biden?
3
@Chris We don't have to ask. HE TOLD US!
3
Intriguing that Taylor expresses that it's "crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign" at a second call AFTER the call raising the question, and being told "Call me" by Sonderland. What Sonderland told him backstage is clearly what Taylor thought crazy. The plot thickens. (I do think financial markets are going to settle down knowing that trade wars can all be settled if China and the EU will agree to investigate the Biden family.)
3
The only thing that will remove Trump is the ballot box....
1
Preamble for Congressional Republicans: Fellas, we're looking for something. It was around here somewhere. Old piece of paper with squirrelly writing all over it, and the word "constitution" somewhere in the title. Did somebody put it somewhere? You remember. Y'all put your a hand on a heavy book and promised out loud to all and sundry to defend and protect and be loyal to it? Or have you, in your own befuddled minds, already completely debunked that witch-hunting hoax of a document?
Nothing could be clearer. Trump, Pence, Barr, et al. have used public assets for private gain which is a violation of the Constitution. A White House invitation would not be granted and $400 million in military aid would not be delivered unless Ukraine did what Trump demanded and carried out a politically motivated investigation based on a completely debunked lie.
Context is everything. An independent, free and democratic Ukraine depends on that aid. Russia is presently attempting to invade Ukraine. Russia, one might recall, killed ten million Ukrainians when they confiscated their food in a house-by-house effort. Trump's appalling threats hint at that appalling genocide. Zelensky, a novice politician, is not to be faulted for his desperation and his demeanor which was clearly calculated to please the narcissistic inept ignorant Trump.
What are we supposed to do? Let Trump extort Ukraine and god knows who else into sabotaging our elections? How is that letting the people decided in 2020?
4
What America and the world just witnessed on the White House lawn is a bald face liar as our President of the United States. Willing to spew a new lie thought out overnight to try to match their current narrative and hopefully the evidence will again catch him in his tracks.
It’s a sad state of affairs when the governments of Ukraine, Finland, and others are dis-playing more leadership than the United States of America.
4
Meanwhile, Pence says the American people have a right to know of the Vice President or his family profited from his position in the last administration. How hypocritical can a person be? Did his position as VP in the current administration not help his wife secure a cushy job? And what of Trump - his daughter and son-in-law are actually on the White House payroll! Is that not profiting from their connection to the current administration? And then there are the emoluments that he and his family get from their hotels, resorts and other businesses. Hypocrites all! C’mon republicans - open your eyes to graft and corruption that’s in plain view.
8
The amended subsection of the federal campaign election statute states : ”Subsec . (a). Pub. L. 107–155, §303(2), added subsec. (a) and struck out former subsec. (a) which read as follows: "It shall be UNLAWFUL for a foreign national directly or through any other person to make any contribution of money or other thing of value, or to promise EXPRESSLY OR IMPLIED to make any such contribution, in connection with an election to any political office or in connection with any primary election, convention, or caucus held to select candidates for any political office; or for any person to solicit, accept, or receive any such contribution from a foreign national."
Subsec. (b)(2). Pub. L. 107–155, §317, inserted "or a national of the United States (as defined in section 1101(a)(22) of title 8)" after "United States".
Effective Date of 2002 Amendment
Amendment by Pub. L. 107–155 effective Nov. 6, 2002, see section 402 of Pub. L. 107–155, set out as an Effective Date of 2002 Amendment; Regulations note under section 30101 of this title.“
While Trump’s allies may spin Shondland’s text statement response to Ambassador Taylor’s concern as “....no quid pro quo”as exculpatory, an expressly or overt one is not needed. Taylor’s wariness, concern and doubt of the issue reflects the implicit connotation of the transaction which is conditional. In Trump’s words “I would like you to do us a favor THOUGH....”
Ambassador Taylor’s testimony is absolutely critical.
3
Trump's denial and every other of his words mean nothing. He's a proven pathological liar.
7
Number of mafia bosses who definitely knew where the bodies were buried: All of them
Number of mafia bosses who also DENIED knowing where the bodies were buried: All of them.
10
Trump is going to win again in 2020. The senate won’t impeach him but beyond that, in this age of twitter and 24 hour breaking news, the more we hear about what he does the more it seems normal. It will never happen but if the dems go quiet for a few weeks that would drive him crazy and maybe he does something that’s truly indefensible. It won’t happen - the treadmill isn’t stoping and Trump is going to win again.
Of course he denies... add to the growing list of lies.
3
Closing in on Trump, it seems.
2
Let's get on with this.
5
I'm exhausted. May I be put in a medically induced coma to be awakened only after Trump is out of office?
9
@Last Frontier
Good thought, but then you would not be able to vote Blue.
1
One more time: It DOESN'T MATTER, if there was a quid pro quo. The traitor committed a CRIME by asking a foreign government to help his personal political agenda in the 2020 election. We know he asked Ukraine, from the memo/"transcript" provided by the WH, and we heard the traitor, in another of his "driveways", ask China for help, as well.
He's digging a hole, getting in, and pulling the dirt over him.
10
According to Trumps (false) logic, no crime is committed when an armed robber asks a bank teller for a little favor: “please fill this bag with your voluntary contribution to the Trump 2020 Re-election Campaign. Oh, and let’s pretend I wasn’t here, okay”
6
Meanwhile, over on the Fox News website, all of the headlines are about Biden and Ukraine. The editors there should be ashamed of themselves.
6
It's infuriating to keep finding Trump's felonies filed under "Politics."
This is a straight news story. Why, NYT, do you insist in allowing the Republican playbook define how you cover the news?
Ditto on referring to, "Do me a favor," as not a quid pro quo?
Trump is never going to be caught on video in a Washington parking garage at 2:00 AM accepting a bag of cash. . not that this would trouble his cult/
4
Yeah, this one is pretty much played out. When Congress comes back next week there will be a bit of head shaking and those great patriots of the GOP will explain, as they did with Comey, that Donald Trump isn’t a Washington insider and kind of maybe just didn’t know that you’re not supposed to do this sort of thing. And besides, Democrats started it. You know how the argument goes: guys at my high school used to prioritize the consolidation of their power at the expense of the nation’s foreign policy all the time, it was no big deal.
Plus, Hillary’s emails.
As a matter of self preservation I’m just not going to care anymore.
5
I hear you. It’s tough as you watch your country slide inextricably into autocracy. Slow-mo car wreck while the gutless suits who could do something about it sit idly by.
5
The July-25th phone transcripts plainly show that Trump made a "this for that" offer or quid pro quo to President Selenskyy of Ukraine.
On that phone call President Zelenskyy states "I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense".
Trump's responds..."I would like you to do us a favor though", especially the word "though", means Trump wants something in exchange for providing U.S. military aid in defense of Ukraine and Trump goes on to say he wants investigations into the origin of the Mueller Report and Bidens.
Trump clearly made a "this for that" statement, which is a quid pro quo. Trump's request is to undermine the U.S. Intelligence Agencies finding that Russia interfered with the 2016 Presidential Election and to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Democratic front runner, Joe Biden, prior to the 2020 Presidential Election.
Trump's own words justify impeachment.
15
@Pat Kilroy
Agreed.
“Trump’s own words justify impeachment.”
On close examination, they also indicate that they may well justify commitment.
One-party control of both houses of congress combined with an unfit, unbalanced chief executive of the same party resulted in a nightmarish situation that should never again be repeated in our nation.
The UNBALANCED president is a threat to our democracy we should never again risk.
4
@Tom W
Trump crazy?
Tump's fantasy and obsession about the California company, Crowdstrike, and the DNC server being controlled by a wealthy Ukrainian is nuts!
The 25th amendment to remove a President that is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office might be applicable, but hard to prove 'cause many crazy people only reveal their mental instability on a periodic basis.
1
To all those shouting there is no quid pro quo, that may or may not be true, but there will certainly be an et tu brutus moment.
2
What is it that "Republicans" find so difficult to understand here?
If a candidate gets a foreign power to weigh in on an American election, the election outcome is no longer determined by American voters. It is tainted.
American taxpayers no longer control our government's actions, our budget nor our nuclear arsenal. There is no certainty that our government's actions are in the interests of our citizens.
What is so hard to understand about why this is wrong?
20
Ask Trump first to define "quid pro quo" before you ask him if there was any. No point in using terms he would have to look up.
13
@mo I've said since back in the campaign debates - don't ask his opinion, ask him straight questions with certain answers, like: how does the Federal Reserve work; what is the job of the Interior Department; how do you spell "Jerusalem"; where do babies come from?
Jim Jordan needs to be aware he is in jeopardy over his own candles and should perhaps think more about his own ethics defense.
He continues to show he is a supporter of illegal and unethical behavior in himself and others.
12
@Rolf People of Ohio: Get rid of Jordan.
2
Sondland saying there was no "quid pro quo" AFTER it had already been communicated means nothing. It's as if a blackmailer collected and then says to the victim, thanks for the cash, but I was never connecting my threats to this payment.
11
More smoking blunderbusses. The only people who can doubt that the Oath of Office has been violated are those people who are so completely in thrall to its resident that they have descended into his insane (literally) world.
11
Trump is digging a hole so deep, he’s going to hit the molten lava in the earth’s mantle. Rudy Giuliani is supplying shovels and the Republican legislators are carrying away the buckets of dirt.
Do I believe Nunes and Jordan, or do I think Schiff is traveling the right path?
Devin Nunes was a dairy farmer prior to his career in politics. While Jim Jordan has a J.D., he earned it in 2000, after he entered the political arena. On the other hand, Adam Schiff has a J.D. and was a practicing prosecutor before he sought a career in politics.
Frankly, why would I believe either Jordan or Nunes, both of whom have no practical experience in the law, over someone who successfully prosecuted a rogue FBI agent?
As far as facts go, Gordon Sondland, who is a Trump supporter and hotelier, knew he was operating on the wrong side of the law. “Call me,” in response to a texted question implies it. Additionally, why was Sondland even involved in the U.S./Ukraine relationship? He is the Ambassador to the European Union. Ukraine is not an EU member.
The swamp gas emanating from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is about to catch fire.
13
“There is no quid pro quo. (Wink wink, nudge nudge.”
“You want to buy anti-tank weapons? I need you to do me a favor.”
Trump needs to do his own oppo research. If he’s that concerned about corruption, talk to the FBI.
5
So We all understand this clearly ..Mr Volker only resigned when these attempts by trump's administration became public ... He did not seem to have a problem with using the power of the Govt. to make false accusations against trump's political foes .. He did want to assist the Ukraine to resist Russia ..I suppose his dedication to a higher goal is laudable .
12
All the tax payer dollars down the drain from the helicopter engine running for twenty minutes while the president tells lies or campaigns next to it on camera on WH lawn let alone all the unecessary carbon going into the atmosphere.
31
Aint it funny how birds of a feather flock together?
The solution to anyone who cares, is to turn on the sunlight as soon as you have some one say something even vaguely obtuse or manipulative with the implied nudge nudge wink wink. You also make sure there are plenty of people to see & hear you turn the light on.
7
@magicisnotreal
the second half of my solution is to be sure it is very clear what is going on if there is retribution.
1
@magicisnotreal
Yes..true.
And we're waiting for that "sunlight" to be focused on the Dems..
1
Pelosi, Schiff, Nadler, Schumer et al cannot be this obtuse or naive, can they? I’m beginning to think that these old corporate Democrats are in on the fix. It reminds me of the way Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Jeff Flake put on their little dog-and-pony shows, knitting their brows in feigned concern, pretending to carefully consider the issues... It was all an act, not as obvious as the performance Lindsay Graham and Brett Kavanaugh gave us, but an act nonetheless. Et tu, Pelosi?
1
There is something very broken in this country. Our government, our media, our culture...I don't know what exactly, but the criminal behavior of this President is beyond the pale. Yet, all I see is milquetoast analysis instead of decisive action. Trump has broken the law in a multitude of ways...from using the office for personal financial gain to soliciting foreign interference in our elections. Is this the end result of truthiness and alternative facts? Republicans shamelessly played the biggest role in bringing us to this new low, but they're not alone. The press is constantly invoking euphemisms for outright lies. You see it every time they trot out some climate change denier in the name of "impartiality." It's all a joke.
What in God's name has happened to the rule of law?
28
@Mia
What in God's name has happened to the rule of law?
It no longer exists in America.
7
Kudos to Volker and Taylor, who it seems were intent on leaving a paper trail, unlike "call me" Sondland.
15
If asking a foreign government for a 'favor' to help defeat a political rival is not an impeachable offense, then please, someone tell me what is an impeachable offense?
26
@Canada has faith - do the right thing It is.
2
Of course there was quid pro quo. Anyone with a functioning brain can see what was going on.
19
The quid pro quo is immaterial!!
Stop playing to this trope and batting the denials back & forth!
He asked a foreign government (two now, and a hostile one to boot!) to render aid to him, to investigate on his behalf, against a domestic political opponent. FULL STOP! HE's DONE!
23
Whether this egregious behavior of the president, and those who did his bidding, is an impeachable offense is no longer a question or a matter of opinion. Taken together, the transcript of the phone call and the emails and texts are all we need to know that Mr. Trump violated the Constitution. I can't say this more plainly: the inquiry has already uncovered damning evidence.
The Republicans will certainly double down, spin this in a multitude of deceptive ways, but anyone who can read knows the truth. Mr. Trump has zero credibility. And that there isn't a bipartisan outcry for his immediate removal is disgraceful.
12
No quid pro quo? That is not a critical factor here. Trump asked a foreign government to help him investigate a potential opposition candidate to essentially get “ dirt” or should I say do Oppo Research???
What was Alexander Hamilton and the other farmers of the Constitution thinking about when they drafted the document?
As Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Tribe has said we have the ultimate case for impeachment!!!with the facts in plain sight for the world to see and that includes 60 gutless , morally bankrupt Republican Senators-
7
Let's say China offered President Trump yet another Biden or Warren conspiracy theory in exchange to stay silent on the Hong Kong protests. Have him work on his golf game.
I imagine he took the bait.
I need an NIH grant for a pet project. Where do I send my bogus Biden story?
4
Trump is a proven liar of a volume none of us have ever seen, so we cannot believe a word of what he says here about no quid pro quo.
7
This wild corrupt trumpian saga enfolds before our eyes every day of the week, every hour of the day...
He is dangling invitation to the WH to
Mr. Zelensky contingent on Zelensky appearing on TV, publicly reading the fabricated trumpian statement.
There's now a second whistleblower complaint circulating on Capitol Hill...
Tax Returns...
I can only imagine this brawl...
And finally "China are you Listening"
5
I don't know why so many comments don't care about the quid pro quo. It's critical to the investigation, implicit and apparent at least in my mind and apparently many aids minds. This is the most damning evidence to get Trump removed from office. We're talking about impeachment, not a criminal trial, where the evidence needs to be beyond reasonable doubt. He was withholding congressionally approved money back, with no reason to, except the obvious one.
1
Trump keeps saying but, but if we only read the transcript of his call with President Zelensky, we would know the truth, DUH. We did read it and it proves his guilt THOUGH!
5
Impeachment is always hatred and contempt for the voter, which is why impeachment is talked about almost as casually as war.
Make no mistake, Trump's impeachment is political theater, aimed at sucking all the political air out of the proverbial room so that real, substantive issues are drowned out in the din.
Remember, Nancy Pelosi's job isn't to defeat Republicans, it's to defeat progressives.
3
@Max
Huh? Impeachment has nothing to do with "the voters." Rather, it has to do with whether or not an elected official has behaved in an illegal or unethical manner.
Trump has done both; thus, he should be impeached.
13
Impeachment is the only way the voters are PROTECTED from a leader who violates his/her obligation to protect our country and the constitution. Time is up.
6
@AACNY
I think you're referring to the Republicans' hearings about Benghazi, not about this situation.
4
Donald Trump is running a criminal enterprise. He and his family are swindling and grifting in plain site, out of the White House Oval Office. He is managing his crime syndicate at taxpayer expense.
27
You know that story on CNN of the lady who jumped the fence at the Bronx zoo, then taunting the lion. Well this is an exact analogy of what Trump is doing with the congress. Although, I'm not sure who is who. Is Trump the lady or the lion? If the lady, he will jump back over the fence soon enough and life will go on, damaging the reputation of the US enforcing its fences (laws). If he is the lion, then congress will see soon enough that they have violated some law of nature with regards to the rules that govern Trump and will go back to finding more chinks (taxes) in his armor that will bring him down to being a mere mortal like the rest of the presidents. One day however, the laws that govern us all will catch up with him and like Icarus he will fall back to earth.
2
Trump has no idea about how the world -especially our government - works, and doesn't care to learn. He's like a schoolboy, maybe a third grader, whose social studies class hasn't yet gotten around to studying the three branches of government.
5
Isolationist Donald Trump suddenly asking numerous foreign countries for assistance in obtaining any info that may help him defeat Biden, also withholding 361m in aid to Ukraine until they complied?! This is unprecedented. Why not investigate Jared and Ivanka as well? Giuliani needs to stay out of conversations with other countries. He is Trump's personal lawyer, after all.
7
Any reasonable person knows Trump is guilty. The crime is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s a question of whether some people care about the rule of law or not, period!!
Anybody who claims he didn’t is simply being unreasonable! Don’t waste time arguing with them. Simply ask them whether there’s to be the rule of law or not. If the latter, then, we can proceed as if nothing happened. But if it’s the former, then the criminal should be held accountable and the country should move on from him, period.
6
The quid pro quo defense is irrelevant and a ruse. The President developed a broad program of diplomatic pressure to solicit a foreign government to provide an investigation into a domestic political rival. That's a crime.
But obviously, in the course of diplomacy there are negotiations ongoing that imply the risk of declining to cooperate could result in offending the most powerful nation in the negotiations. If this doesn't qualify as "Treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors", then nothing does and the Constitution is moot.
9
@James Ferguson
They are so enmeshed in criminal activity they totally missed that the specially edited transcript they gave us contained the proof of the crimes the whistle blower is alleging and indicates others.
3
"Donald - the great denier" strikes again.
"Mr. Trump had ordered his aides to hold up the $391 million in congressionally approved aid to Ukraine, with no explanation provided to the agencies involved. Then he got on the phone with Mr. Zelensky to ask for “a favor.”
I'm like Harry Bosch at heart - we don't believe in coincidences.
7
What else is new? Trump will deny this accusation loudly and continue to throw dirt at Biden. He has even enlisted the Chinese now to help him win the election. Trump has tainted the 2020 election. He has done the same thing he did to H. Clinton. Democrats need a better candidate that Trump cannot smear with his accusations of corruption. Biden has a chance of winning if Trump is removed from the White House. But otherwise, Biden is unlikely to win the 2020 race due to the smear Trump has thrown. The Senate will not do its job and remove Trump. They will support Trump no matter what. Power seems to be more important than the nation. I really hope I am wrong, but this seems to be going the same direction the 2016 election went with H. Clinton.
2
Donald Trump apparently thinks he’s a king or a god when he groans on about his absolute rights as POTUS to solicit help from foreign governments to investigate political rivals. His Republican friends see nothing wrong with that, but they would have crucified Obama for using similar language.
3
Advice to Democrats: If you are serious about impeaching Trump, make the strongest case you can, and take your time doing it. No one on our (Republican) side is going to vote to impeach him based on this conversation. No one. It simply isn't going to happen.
2
Thankfully, no Republican is needed to vote to impeach Trump over his request for a personal benefit from a foreign government.
2
We held our breaths for two years for Mueller, who stubbornly refused to state that anyone other than the president would be indictable for obstruction of justice. And we wrung our hands in dejection. Now, in the space of a couple of weeks, we can actually imagine, with solid evidentiary backing, the end of Trump and the most corrupt president and administration in the history of the United States.
3
I am sorry but I don't see any impeachable offense here. Biden is a private citizen, not the official nominee of Democratic Party. NYT and WAPO are tying themselves in knots by calling Biden a " political rival ", a meaningless term. Biden is not anyone's rival, not even Warren's.
Asking Ukraine to investigate "corrupt" activities of a private citizen is perfectly acceptable and is done all the times, though through diplomatic or law enforcement channels.
1
@A Common Man
Wow, that's a stretch. You really don't believe Trump's motive for singling Biden out was because he is running for president? It's just a coincidence, I guess. But aside from that, he undermined an ally that we were supporting, just to advance something that would benefit him personally. This isn't just a trade deal, this is military aid to an ally fighting a war against Russian aggression.
Not only that, the other thing he wanted investigated was the origins of the 2016 Russia investigation. He is trying to exonerate Russia, trying to pretend they weren't involved - so that he can lift the sanctions on them.
He is Russia's ally.
3
If you are unable to see why citizen Biden is a political rival to Trump, then you definitely won't believe Trump when he says he was not asking for a personal favor in cooperation with his personal attorney.
2
Only problem is a trump removal means Pres pence which is awful. Further now Biden is tainted and pence just might defeat the progressives.
Dear Mr. Vice President,
As a liberal, I think you scare me even more than our President does. But I have to put my fear aside and say this:
If you and the Cabinet don’t 25th this lunatic out of the White House, shame on all of you.
Surely, a man of your morals and integrity can see that our President is becoming _completely_ unhinged.
Your duty is to the Constitution. It’s time for you to grow into the fullness of the Vice Presidency you were elected to.
1
That we haven't collectively acknowledged the plain fact of a quid pro quo--actually, quids pro quos, as Ukraine wanted aid, and a visit, and Trump wanted dirt on Biden, and exoneration for Russia--feels to me, at this point, like a kind of collective madness. Everyone seems to be playing by Trump's rules.
"You don't have videotape of me offering a quid pro quo."
"I never said quid pro quo."
"When I said quid prop quo, you don't know what I was thinking. I was thinking about draining the swamp in Ukraine."
Trump is repeatedly confessing to high crimes and misdemeanors, boasting of them actually, and committing them on live TV. And we're still reporting that "Trump denies quid pro quo for Ukraine." Madness.
3
I don't doubt Trump will get away with his crimes. But America won't. I wonder if my grandchildren will ever forgive my generation.
2
Ha!
Trump thinks it's the president's job to uncover corruption?
Why? Because he knows more about corruption than anyone of course!
3
Gotta love Sondland's comment about no quid pro quo--just like all those scenes where the mob boss realizes the other guy is probably "wired."
7
Quid pro quo is a red herring. The New York Times is falling into the same pro-Trump trap it did when it repeated the fallacy that “collusion” was the all-important standard for the Russia investigation. This article is misleading because it fails to provide the context that on the Ukraine call itself, Trump discussed military weaponry and exerted pressure on Ukraine.
7
First: “Take Trump seriously, not literally.” Then: “No literal quid pro quo!” Seriously?
2
This one is easy. Who are you going to believe?
A president who has repeatedly shown himself to be a pathological liar capable of bending the truth and facts to suit his own purpose and reality -- or the hard copy that proves otherwise.
Wake-up and THINK, America.
4
Seems pretty clear to me: career statespeople in the field were doing the dirty work of our pathetic president who thinks buying off people is a legitimate method of diplomacy. They were kept in the dark so that they wouldn't ask too many questions before carrying out orders. Trump, Pompeo and those of the ilk of Sondland don't like people who question them as it exposes their true motivations. (Footnote: this is why Trump hates the press - simply for the fact that they ask questions.)
4
This headline is really annoying.
How do you know what Trump “saw”? He denies a quid pro quo but it’s kind of editorializing and biased in favor of Trump to just claim he didn’t perceive it as such. You can’t possibly know that. Just say he denies his actions were a quid pro quo.
3
Trump very definitely solicited for a quid pro quo.. so it does not matter if Ukraine carried through or not.
Ukraine petitions for it's military aid promised to it, and Trump says... "I need you to do me a favor"
I need you to do me a favor, in the context of a request by the Ukraine for what was lawfully given to them by Congress.... IS a quid pro quo solicitation by Trump. He simply used the common mob vernacilar of "favor"
1
As a multinational investor with hidden tax returns Trump imagines he can call on any one in the world to do his political bidding. He has been caught in the act. As an autocrat he believes if he just yells through his bull horn loud enough he can drown out the truth. It is time to stuff his bull horn with the truth that he is acting like a multinational corporate ruler, from his tax breaks, to his de-regulations, and now to his use of the international order to interfere in the governance of America. His protectors are a sad case of lost minds who have given themselves into unhinged authoritarianism.
5
Why does the Times continually cast this inquiry as "the Democrats against Trump," as if it is all just a political squabble between opposing parties?
Language like: "... three Democratic-led House committees ..." "...investigation by House Democrats." "the House Democratic impeachment inquiry ..." "The Democratic chairmen of the committees ..." colors your reporting, undermines the seriousness of the situation, and ultimately plays into Trump's attempts to delegitimize the investigation.
Why not refer to these groups and individuals by their formal titles? Anyone paying any attention knows who's in which party.
3
The House has to impeach Trump. If for no other reason, to allow the 3 branches of government - Chief Justice Roberts, Trump, Dem House and Rep Senate to say their piece. Sure, the jury (Senate) will have the ultimate say, but surely the CJ will have an opportunity to shed some light on existential questions that have kept the body politic pre-occupied these last few years. Is a President truly above the law? Can prosecutors ignore the OLC memo in future proceedings? What are the limits of executive privilege? George Conway published an article about Trump's fitness for office. If Trump were a lay person and Conway his defense attorney, he just made an excellent case that Trump is not fit to stand trial.
Beyond the spectacle of such a showdown, this is the catharsis we need to finally move forward one way or another.
1
The president and his associates in and out of government are involved in an international criminal conspiracy against American citizens, and against the rule of law. They are now openly soliciting corrupt foreign powers to launch retaliatory investigations against Americans.
Congress needs to immediately investigate all financial connections between oppositional foreign powers (and their agents) and Americans working on their behalf - in the government, in the private sector, in social media, and in the mainstream and alternative media. It must follow these financial trails wherever they lead, and it must report the ENTIRE findings to the American people.
Nothing less than a war is being levied against the United States; it's time for Congress to expose those waging it before it is too late. Our democracy, our financial future, and our freedom are being sold out from under us.
4
Trump cannot change laws or create laws or nullify laws simply by saying the law is now what he wants it to be. He may want that power, but he doesn't have it.
6
@lynchburglady
Before the Trump administration I would have heartily agreed with every word of your comment.
However, the great lesson with which we have been confronted over the past three years, is that an unethical, unprincipled president IS the law, if no court or legislative body has the courage and the will to stand up and stop him.
In a one-party America of spineless jurors and legislators, the president’s unchallenged executive orders make him a de facto dictator. He is the law. He took the power.
You are right. In theory, “he doesn’t have the power.”
But, in practice, he can take the power and do what he pleases if the other elected and appointed officials in power do not stop him.
5
This isn't just about a single phone call, anymore. That one awful phone call was bad enough, but this scandal is quickly being revealed as a coordinated campaign for the inappropriate use of US power, involving multiple actors over a period of months. Some of the actors are US government diplomats, but there's also Giuliani (the President's personal lawyer) who had no proper business being involved in this mess at all.
While Quid Pro Quo is not necessary for impeachment (soliciting foreign help to interfere in US elections should be bad enough by itself) it seems obvious there really was a strongly implied Quid Pro Quo as well. Military aid and face-to-face meetings are apparently withheld on the basis of the wording of the proposed public statement--Giuliani insists that Zelensky must mention Burisma by name or there would be no deal.
The more I hear about this, the angrier I get--and the more fearful I am for the future of our country.
9
Quiz pro quo doesn’t matter. It’s still inappropriate and impeachable even without a quid pro quo. The headline should be “Trump appointed envoys we’re concerned about improper directives”.
3
Trump is challenging the rule of law and defying the American People to hold him accountable.
His argument is to validate his endless and indisputable power to “do anything that he wants” without oversight.
This may be the moment of truth for our democracy.
5
The Trump scandal cycle:
1) I never heard about it.
2) I didn't do it.
3) Ok, I did it but it isn't wrong.
4) I did it and it's wrong but it was necessary.
5) I did it, it's wrong, it wasn't necessary, but I have pardoning power so you can't stop me.
6) I did it again publicly because no one held me accountable last time.
9
@CB
You missed the latest to add to your list:
7) I did it because I am obligated to do it.
(Yup, he really said that)
3
The question should be if a quid pro quo is even necessary for impeachment. I don't think so.
The focus needs to be that Trump was asking for something of value to him from a foreign government, something to help him get reelected. And that is unconstitutional.
3