"Walked 5 minutes and made an order" ????
What, on earth is wrong with people? I purposely try to stay uninvolved with every pop culture flash. So I recently talked to my daughter who filled me in on this latest aberration: food delivery in the new millennium. She has been doing Door Dash & Uber Eats while waiting for her new (real) job to start. The so-called "Gig" economy. What an absolute joke.
Yes, she told me about the melted $18 milk shake she delivered 10 miles away (because some -I'll be kind -person wanted a certain brand shake). They weren't disappointed by the price, or the fact it was melted. They just got what they wanted - at any price. Wow. That's all I can say -Wow.
Learning that people will actually order food & force yet another car on the road just because they don't want to walk 5 minutes ? Gee, I guess I am old. Big deal. And they think i'm a has been ? What about the never will be's ?
All I can see is: there are awfully tough times coming & how will they eat if they can't even boil a hot dog or make Top Ramen.
This is the best laugh I have had in days !
8
Greedhub: why is it that every lovely "makes-life-easier" app learns quickly -- after seducing businesses and customers -- how oppress the business owners (and, eventually the customers) who provided its initial profitability? Greed.
2
I don't think these services are that useful in NYC. I just walk to the place where I to to get my food from and get it.
4
Legislation? Why aren't restaurant owners just dropping GrubHub? If it isn't profitable or it does not otherwise grow the business, just don't use it. Duh. The same goes for Groupon and offering deals that just bring in one-time customers who want to pay below cost for items. No one is forcing business to use these apps. As for consumers, you can choose to stay away from apps that exploit workers, or you can tip better.
13
In this article they discuss how restaurants in New York City are actually losing profits from using the delivery service Grubhub. I learned from reading this article that Grubhub actually charges the business to use their services. I never thought about that that way, I thought they just made their profits by charging high delivery charges. I also learned that Grubhub charges restaurants more for higher exposer on their website and does not use a flat fee like Uber eats does. And lastly I learned that some restaurants in New York are losing up to 5% of profits just by using the delivery service which is crazy to me.
8
I keep reading these articles in the Times, not really understanding them, and asking the same question: why would anyone use an app to order food? I've been ordering by phone for decades. It works fine. I don't understand how these apps have gained such power. This is not like, say, using the Staples website and saving myself a trip to the store. Restaurants were delivering long before the apps.
6
Restaurants (and their customers) thought they could bring in a third party (delivery apps), and that the third party would put the restaurant/customer's interest before its own ? That level of naivete is certain to kill any small business.
When you lay down with the dogs, you'll get fleas. And if you want to run with the wolves, don't trip. And if you want to make a small fortune, take a large one and start a restaurant.
9
Grubhub's practice of intercepting phone calls that do not result in orders is shameful. The transition from going out restaurant eating to staying home is underway. If capitalism worked effectively, no laws or regulations would be needed. But in the absence of that, laws/regulations are needed.
Imagine a day when there are no malls to go to, or restaurants to visit, as stay at home existence becomes the norm.
4
I just ate breakfast at a restaurant about two miles from my house. Nice, inviting ambiance, with good food and service. I feel like a real pioneer, actually driving to a restaurant, sitting down there to eat their food.
11
@h king I feel the same way when I go to an actual movie theatre!
2
No doubt, these delivery services are yet another public stage on which the restaurant cannot fail to perform, or risk losing popularity (see Yelp). A good restaurant is already so much like a stage act with multiple plates balanced and spinning. If they gets involved with these services, it's yet another spinning dish they're obligated to keep balanced and spinning. Restaurants likely are best served by hiring someone just to manage online delivery facilitation. What happens if they put too many eggs into the online delivery basket, where their margins are ever so thin, and they forsake the in-house dining experience? Are they essentially encouraging the conversion of their in-house customers to online orderers?
BTW, every artist I know is very familiar with the losing strategy of exchanging "improved exposure" for an extreme discount, or giving their work away. This is rarely a beneficial deal.
9
All these companies want us lonely, one on one with our phones, using apps to consume as much as possible and to finally forget about using our own abilities to truly have fun, enjoying life cooking for each other and getting together. I am amazed that so many of us go with the flow and finally destroy valuable culture, resources etc. It is just not rewarding to receive food like a dependent elderly person. Please let ourselves not turn into eating robots.
11
Online ordering is much better than calling a restaurant. 9/10 you call a restaurant and the person answering the phone is standing in the loudest part of the restaurant.
6
Actually, the customer is being exploited as much as the restaurant. Last week we ordered ramen from our local noodle place. Their website immediately took us to Seamless, the Grubhub affiliate. We were puzzled that the price was $17.95, 20% higher than we remembered, so we walked the five minutes to the restaurant and found that the in-house price was still $14.95. We ordered takeout and came home. We saved money and got a little exercise too. From inspection since, quite a few restaurants are marking up their Seamless/Grubhub prices to recover the cost of these applications. Moral of the story: keep paper menus and phone in your order the old-fashioned way.
17
So what? This is a waste of time by the New York City council.
On further review, almost everything the New York City council does is a waste of time.
5
I used Seamless occasionally when I lived in New York. It was usually when I was multi-tasking and it was more convenient to have food delivered. It was and efficient service and I was okay with it back then. Now I'm in Baltimore and it's not the same with Grub Hub - it's a terrible service. Long wait times, cold food, missing items, drivers that can't find your townhouse. Plus, I have come to better understand how these services are changing the local restaurants in my neighborhood (and not always for the better). So I'm done with food delivery services. I prefer the old-fashioned approach of actually eating at the restaurant or picking up food myself and having (gasp) a direct social interaction with the restaurant staff.
19
I don't want anyone, let alone a stranger, touching my food- other than the people preparing it-and I'm not crazy about that either.
6
Is this some sort of paranoid remark about delivery people? Waiters? Aside from the topic of food, it has nothing to do with the article. All in all, it does sound nuts.
9
Uhhhh...most NY'ers I know have the menus from their local restaurants and call them direct. Generally, they're usually places I will go to as well as order takeout. I like to keep on top of how well a restaurant is doing - cleanliness, turnover, etc. - before ordering.
That being said, I had no idea that going through an app such as Yelp might result in a charge to the restaurant. In the future, I'll be sure to call the restaurant direct.
13
@Common Sense And I bet you use Uber all the time, which pays drivers little as it skims off money to go to the same Silicon Valley techies that run the apps you have promised to not use again.
1
Up here in the sticks, most restaurants do not offer home delivery except for a few pizza joints that will deliver locally (like within a mile or two of the shop). If we want takeout sushi or Chinese, we order it and go get it ourselves. No extra charge plus the food is hot (if that is what we ordered) when we get it home. I wouldn’t pay extra for the convenience, such as it is, and I doubt the local merchants would eat the cost.
6
@David DiRoma
I don't know why its so backwards up by Syracuse, but I've got family across the Hudson River from Albany, up near the Berkshires, and they can get delivery from places +5 miles away. All through GrubHub and Uber Eats.
I gave up restaurant delivery with the rise of these apps. Unless the restaurant offers their own delivery service I won't place an order or I'll pick it up myself.
9
"Unless the restaurant offers their own delivery service"? What are you talking about? Every restaurant on Seamless/GrubHub DOES offer their own delivery service, because Seamless/GrubHub does not do any deliveries themselves. Seamless/GrubHub just provides the online platform for ordering. I have yet to encounter a restaurant that's on Seamless/GrubHub but wouldn't take an order through their own regular phone number.
2
Online trading left brokers on the street, online travel agencies resulted in shuddered agencies, smart phones eradicated phone operators, Amazon resulted in ghost malls, Uber is killing off taxis, some day drones and autonomous cars will put delivery drivers out on the street. The future is bright for those lucky enough to attend MIT or Stanford... another way to look at it; the movie Idiocracy is coming true!
16
Grubhub's employees are overworked and underpaid.
3
Get off the couch and go pick up your dinner. Geesh!
26
I've often wondered why NYC hasn't found a way to impose a delivery tax or surcharge for Seamless. It can't continue to shake down the billionaires forever, maybe it's time to make those who are privileged enough to order take out to pay a bit more for city services (like the upkeep of the sidewalks that the delivery drivers recklessly drive their scooters and ebikes down).
10
@c
And the added garbage from all the takeout
7
We solve this problem by never ever ordering takeout, delivery or otherwise.
13
The government at every level should stay out of this and let the market itself sort things out. If Grubhub's service charges are too high, a competitor will step in and offer a better service at a more competitive price.
11
@inhk
Certainly the comment about a federal investigation is absurd. Sic the FBI on them? If they are committing some fraud in NYC, that would be local. As you said, if the commissions are too high, that is between the vendor and the restaurants. Not my problem or the city's.
2
@inhk Yeah, that thinking worked real well with the airlines. Enjoy your baggage fees? Tiny cramped seats? Higher prices? Thank the 'free market'. Sorry, but history shows what happens if new technologies/business models are allowed to run amok - and it's not positive.
8
@Jonahh
"Enjoy your baggage fees? "
If the baggage fees the airline charges seem high, send your suitcase via Fed Ex or UPS and you'll realize what a bargain baggage fees are. I was in awe that the airlines waited so long to impose these reasonable fees. (caveat, former airline employee here)
4
An important fact that a lot of naysayers seem to gloss over or discount, is that these apps bring restaurants to the people...in other words, advertising! I'm lucky to live and work in areas that offer an overabundance of restaurant choices and cuisine options. If it weren't for these apps that open up my eyes to this larger selection of choices, I would never order from probably 80% of them. I distinctly remember my food-delivery-ordering-life before and after Seamless and I can tell you I order from a lot more and varied places. Sorry to be incendiary but sometimes I feel these restaurants owe a lot to Seamless. What was that old saying about biting the hand that feeds you? Barring the unscrupulous practices of stealing domains and charging for orderless phone calls, I don't see what the crime is in charging these rates to the restaurant. You think it's too high? Fine, there's plenty of competition and Seamless will learn in time. But I don't think it's fair to stifle them when they're what's promoting a restaurant's business.
3
Free enterprise. This restaurant owners gets it:
"But given the popularity of online delivery, Mr. Kai said he believed that number should be even higher. He now offers a 10 percent discount to customers who bypass Grubhub and order through his ChowNow app instead."
Competition will impact fees. Don't restaurants save by not needed waitstaff to handle the order? Customer have a big say in this as well. They could also pressure Grubhub.
Legislation? Seriously?
8
@David You're seriously saying traditional delivery people took 30% of a given restaurant's profits? Proof please. That is what GrubHub is doing.
3
Where I live, I've found that many restaurants, even if you order through their direct websites (websites they've had for years, not the fake ones from Grubhub), the delivery is done by third parties like Grubhub, I assume because it's expensive to maintain your own delivery staff. So, even if you try to avoid them (which I do), there's no guarantee that you will.
But for me, I've stopped using these services because in my area, I found that often the drivers would not get out of their car and bring the food to the door. They call when they arrive and expect you to come out and collect it. That may make sense if you're in the middle of a crowded downtown area with no available street parking, but I live in a quiet neighborhood where parking is always available within a reasonable distance from my front door. If I'm paying jacked-up prices to cover their fees, delivery charges that go as high as $10 per order, and am expected to tip on top of that, I expect delivery to my door.
In the end, if I really want it, I go out myself, which actually takes less time than delivery. I've also just started eating less takeout and making sure that I keep frozen options and good pantry staples on-hand for those nights I just don't want to cook, which, let's be honest, is actually a good thing. My arteries, my waistline, and my checkbook are thanking me.
19
@Josie I know what you mean about the delivery guys wanting you to come downstairs to the front door to pick up your delivered food. However, I've learned to "force" them to come to my apartment door. I didn't pay them a tip so I would have to descend 3 flights to pick up my food. I live in a densely populated neighborhood where there is no parking. I tell them no one is going to tow you. People in my 'hood double park all of the time. Look at the Ubers and Lyfts! They are always double parked.
@Josie and @Wanglu60
Excuse me, but this is about the services in NYC!
I don't really think you can equate what is happening in SF to here!
4
The new American work ethic seems to be "those who do most of the work (GrubHub restaurants; Uber drivers) should make the least. What a disgusting, unethical model.
The solution is find the fairest app: ChowNow here I come.
17
The Mostest Most New York app would probably call itself SnubHub.
3
Owning a restaurant in NYC, I have dropped all of these online delivery services. Still, once a day we get an email or call asking us to join. Complete parasites.
46
Grubhub uses overworked illegal immigrants to deliver food in my area; food is always cold and the pathetically under paid workers who deliver the food is a definite turn off to enjoying any meal.
10
Shut them down. Another pathetic farce from would-be "disruptors" eager to bankrupt existing businesses in order to line their own pockets.
Disgusting.
29
Why don’t restaurants just set up online ordering through their own websites? How complicated can that be? I certainly would use such an option if available. Seamless comes in handy when I don’t have cash at home; I’d be happy to order online directly from my fave restaurants if it saved them money.
8
@Carolyn
“How complicated can than be?” Maybe talk to a restaurant owner or an online retailer before passing judgement on the ease of this. Our world is full of hidden and under appreciated infrastructure that makes lives so complacently convenient for consumers.
11
@Carolyn Creating an ordering website that can also manage deliveries is a complex software development problem. No restaurant has the skills to do that, and paying a competent contractor would cost more than paying GrubHub.
1
@Thy Tran I've *been* an online retailer. It wasn't complicated at all, hence my question. Still no answer here....
1
I decided to stop using these apps after my first experience with Uber Eats. Why?
First, the food delivery was smaller. I queried this and the restaurant told me that because Uber charges THEM as well as me, they can't make enough profit and so they downsize the meal.
Secondly, the food was not what I expected. I was told that instead of my meal coming from the kitchen I'd visited in person, it came from some "Dark Kitchen" as they call them, a central location.
23
maybe the restaurants should stop using grubhub? seems like an easy fix for them.
15
15-30% fee is highway robbery.
I urge consumers to bypass Seamless and Grubhub and call the restaurant on their direct line.
44
@FH NYC -- yes this is just like UBER stealing from the taxicabs. For non-hail service we used to call the friendly neighborhood car service company, which is the same idea as you say. Unfortunately, nobody does that anymore either. Money-suckers, all of them in both businesses. I totally agree with you.
7
With all the recent deaths related to cyclists, I've wondered how GrubHub is contributing to this problem around NYC. Are they providing any financial support to advocate for safer streets that all these delivery guys are navigating in all sorts of weather on their bikes?
20
There are definitely issues here in terms of mis-charging, etc.
But the restaurant business is and always has been a tough business, and owners need to look at their own business management and practices too - especially Regarding the point that now customers that used to dine in the restaurant will use the delivery service instead.
1. if you are not providing table service, the restaurant saves $$ from labor, dishwashing, etc. so even though you get paid less for the delivered food, it costs you less.
2. Probably more important - I will tell you why i now use delivery instead of dining in-restaurants, even those that i used to frequent. The experience in restaurants is not all that great these days, except at very high-end restaurants. Service is mediocre, seats are uncomfortable, and if you want to actually have a conversation with the people you are dining with, it's really hard to do in a popular place - the noise levels are ridiculous. I actually now order more often than i used to eat in at the same places.
15
@Red angel "... if you are not providing table service, the restaurant saves $$ from labor, dishwashing, etc. so even though you get paid less for the delivered food, it costs you less."
1. No it doesn't. The food has to be packed instead of served. All that single use packaging has to be paid for.
2. Don't you feel guilty for being part of the throw-away economy? I'd like to know how many styrofoam packages and cups you've polluted the planet with, through your food ordering habit.
12
@Laughingdog you might not understand what dine-in restaurant service is supposed to be if you think that it costs the same to handle a takeout order vs in-person table service. The arithmetic is clear: look at how many people work a takeout-only restaurant vs one that has table service.
All of the takeout i get comes in recyclable containers, so no guilt here, thanks for asking!
5
@Red angel
Recycling still consumes energy. Are you sure that all the "recyclable" containers actually get recycled?
5
grub hub and other delivery services are *not* new york friendly. most of their ads push the fact that you never have to go out of your home or interact with real people. additionally, they cheat their delivery people out of real tips... i never use these so called services. if i do need delivery, i call the restaurants directly, establishing a connection with the people who work there, and i get to know the delivery people, who work so hard in all kinds of weather to service the tired, the weary and the lazy new yorkers.
39
@bronxbee
And I hope you tip more than the standard $1-$2 that I believe so many NY'ers think is fair for a delivery person's effort.
I generally give a minimum of $5 and somewhat more if an order is $40 or more. Delivery people work as hard as wait staff.
3
Grub Hub, Uber Eats, Door Dash and its ilk are guilty of the biggest transgression which is WASTE. The plastic, packaging, throw-away silverware, all eventually find their way into the stomachs of birds and sea life, seeping microplastics into our water and soil, thus negatively affecting our ecosystem irreparably. I used Door Dash a few times then realized I was part of the problem. Nowadays I never get takeaway, and that includes no coffee to go. Folks, if we're serious about making environmentally-conscious choices, say NO to food delivery.
95
@Left Coast
The same goes for Whole Foods delivery. They use foam inside plastic to (poorly) insulate cold foods, as well as silver colored bubble wrap envelopes. Neither of these is recyclable.
8
@Left Coast - the waste problem lies with the people ordering delivery just as much as the ones delivering.
5
I quit using GrubHub/Seamless after they promised me $20 off my next order from a certain restaurant if I would order from it and post a review. I ordered, posted, got no discount. I tried again. I wrote the restaurant. They said it was up to Seamless to send me a coupon. I wrote Seamless. Nothing. I wrote again.
They said they were "elevating" my complaint. I never heard from them again.
24
@J. D. Crutchfield Interesting and illegal on GrubHub's part. Hello FTC?
4
@J. D. Crutchfield "They said they were "elevating" my complaint." The trash bin must have been up on a shelf.
6
I used to use Menupages constantly, which provided a consistent format for all restaurants, and from which I could easily call the restaurant for delivery. Now, grubhub has taken over and tries to force you to order through their site. And that causes problems, as there may be discrepancies between their site and the actual menu. People need to stop relying on apps and such things.
13
The answer here is obvious: either raise your prices to offset the commission or don't use seamless/grubhub. I love using seamless and would be happy to pay additional for the convenience. It's a far superior experience to calling in your order.
17
Yeah, absolutely no mention of the customer experience in the article. I think the author would recommend the NYC government run delivery.gov with 2 hour wait times and bloated pensions.
2
Last I checked, "cutting into my profit margins" is not a crime that warrants still more regulation.
Why should commission rates be regulated? If we're talking about "protecting" restaurateurs by regulating commission rates, why not talk about "protecting" consumers by regulating prices? It's basically the same thing, but the second one makes it obvious how ridiculous the concept is. If the service doesn't offer them terms they think are favorable, they're free to not use it.
42
They should also regulate how much a restaurant charges on Seamless vs. in their traditional menu.
Many restaurants actually have higher prices on Seamless (not to mention often deliver worse food).
Isn't that misleading?
5
@Mmm
Why should this be regulated when the customer can make the choice to either order through the Seamless app or pick up the phone and order directly from the restaurant? The customer even has the choice to walk down to the restaurant and eat-in or pick-up the order (crazy idea, I know!). Convenience has a price and Seamless is convenience itself (no messy conversations with humans or interacting with delivery persons when giving them the tip). If Seamless is cutting into the restaurant's slim margins, how else can a small business survive? My favorite local place actually offers 10% off their menu when you call them directly.
11
@janette
Here-in lies the problem! These services have taken over the PHONE orders.
I do not like paying to have things delivered especially if I can easily walk around the corner and pick up the order. But my favorite take-out places no longer allow you to call-in orders, you must order on GrubHub (or similar)! This is because these delivery services charge to make the order even if the customer does not want a delivery!
9
Grub Hub is being dishonest by not informing the businesses of the extra charges . They are charges businesses for phone calls that aren't even translated into a sales and stealing business domain names to have customers redirected to their site to place the order. Grub Hub have to be careful because if none of this listed in the fine print they may possibly face legal actions.
16
I owned a food delivery company in DC in the 90's. Great idea but no money in it.
We discounted the menu prices by 25 to 30% and charged delivery and still, money was very tight.
Uber hemorrhages money, Grubhub, DoorDash all of them. They are snakeoil vendors making their money off investors. The drivers use their personal vehicles without commercial insurance.
Just not a solid business model.
73
This is exactly the same business model that credit cards use. Charge the merchant, not the customer. The customer thinks they're getting something for free, and the merchant has to eat the fees because customers are demanding their "free" services. This business owner refuses to use these services, but regretfully has to accept credit cards (which cost us 3% of our gross).
20
@Frank -- Untrue. I use Grubhub 2x daily for over 4 years and on the "checkout" screen I often see a "delivery fee" added to my bill by the restaurant. The restaurant is in fact passing along their Grubhub surcharge to me, the consumer. And then I go and add a TIP for my driver ON TOP OF the "delivery fee." It is my choice to order using Grubhub or not, to order from restaurants who charge a delivery fee vs those that deliver for "free," etc. Bad food means I never re-order from that restaurant again. Ditto for small portions. The CUSTOMER IS KING. I order from the restaurants that arrive the fastest, w/ the best food and are priced at the best value. Competition is good for the consumer.
6
But credit cards are at least convenient for consumers. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how typing an order on an app is easier than calling a restaurant.
2