Hi everyone,
I am actually from Srinagar Kashmir.These sugar coated words can no longer make kashmiris to trust India who feel betrayed by unilateral decision of government of India without consulting the leadership of Kashmir.The three serving chief ministers of Kashmir are under arrests,no public transport on roads, educational institutions closed, presence of forces everywhere,no communication possible to reach to anyone except few BSNL land lines available in kashmir.At places restrictions have lifted on movement but forces presence is same and people are not accepting this development and demanding right to self determinationas promised by first prime minister of India Mr Jawahar Lal Nehru.
21
This comment section is a beautiful example of how much a narrative can override the principles that people claim to espouse. When the people of a country called the United States self-determined their own political future and elected President Trump, most of these NYTimes commenters were outraged; yet, suddenly self-determination is a sacred right being denied from Kashmiri Indians. (Yes, Trump was elected by a large minority, but if you value majoritarianism why are you so opposed to what the "Hindu nationalist" majority in India has chosen for themselves in their own country?) Trump was #notmypresident because, among other reasons, he attacks women's rights, LGBTQ rights, and minority rights. Meanwhile, the elected Kashmiri government denied women the right to inherit property unless they married who they were supposed to, criminalized homosexuality, and has already overseen widespread ethnic cleansing of religious minorities; an independent Kashmir would almost surely do the same. Self determination may be a human right, but clearly it's not the only one; simplisitically shouting one tenant of morality while grandiosly ignoring your others should invoke some self reflection. Particularly, where did you get your narrative, and who is pushing it? If you believe Trump is so bad, but Kasmiris don't require a second glance, take a minute to go deeper than headlines and try to understand the reality of the situation.
17
The people of Kashmir are suffering the 45th days of a complete lockdown during which they are held incommunicado. While the core issue is the desire of the Kashmiris to exercise their God given right to self determination, India is trying to use brazen propaganda to stem the tide of international condemnation. In reality Kashmiris have lost almost 20 to 25% of their annual income for this year due to the lockdown ( Kashmir has a short tourist season & a growing season). The harsh occupation will ensure that the Kashmir valley remains a highly unstable place where investors are loath to invest. Modi & his extremist advisers (all of them with ideological roots in the RSS India for Hindus only movement) need to face the reality on the ground in Kashmir: The overwhelming majority of Kashmiris want to throw off the yoke of Indian Occupation. No amount of spreading propaganda about how India is spreading peace, prosperity & love for minorities in Kashmir & the rest of India will change this reality. If this is not the case why does India need almost one million security personnel in Kashmir? Why the total communication blackout? Why the curfew? Why are Indian opposition members of parliament prevented from traveling to Kashmir? Why not allow a referendum with international observers on the question of what Kashmiris want their future status to be?
Inquiring minds want to know.
7
Let’s completely ignore for a minute that both sides have completely valid talking points and just compare this article with that from Prime Minister Imran Khan.
One article promises nuclear war unless “the world” intervened and the other promises hope.
How is waging a nuclear war going to solve this problem, Prime Minister Khan?
As an avid times reader, and someone who’s been watching this unfold on the sideline, it was absolutely baffling for me to see an op-ed that read less like an opinion and more like a blackmail letter.
16
India has second largest population of Muslims in the world and it is growing.
The very fact of radicalization of Muslims is far less in india than Pakistan, gulf countries and even in West , this itself speaks about how Muslims in India are part of this nation and it's nationalism. So India won't need certificate from West or Pakistan how it treats to it's people and specially minorities.
Restrictions in Kashmir after removal of 370, are mostly limited to 2-3 districts which are bordering Pakistan and terrorist infiltration is on higher side there.
Other Part of Kashmir, Jammu and laddakh are enjoying new changes and on the way to prosperity.
12
1) The Ambassador would do well to understand that his government's move in Kashmir isn't a thrashing of Pakistan, but of his own fellow citizens who happen to be Muslim Indians.
2) Your argument is that you are doing this for Kashmir's own good. I learned in childhood that when somebody did something for my own good, it was actually for his. Especially for his power trip.
3) But, then, you'll probably get the trains running on time.
4
The narrative that some vested interests are trying to portray that India is supressing muslims in Kashmir, is ridiculous at best as seen from the following facts: India had a Muslim president. Cricket is a big sport in India and their captain was a Muslim, and there are so many muslim players in the Indian team. One of India's richest men and founder of Wipro, Mr. Premji, is a Muslim. Most Bollywood super stars are Muslims (Amir Khan, Salman Khan etc).
Doesn't this narrative seem illogical then; that Muslims prosper in rest of India, while India is suppressing those in Kashmir?
12
The British were building a more prosperous India.
5
The state of J&K is part of independent India, is a fact. So no outsider has a right to comment upon it, unless they have evidence to show that it is causing human rights violations. Apart from doctored and fake videos and pictures, Pakistani state has nothing to show for this.
What India has done by repealing Art. 370 of the INDIAN Constitution, would unclog development of an Indian state. It is open secret that successive J&K govts. indulged in massive corruption largely because of Art. 370. Now these govt functionaries would be accountable like other govts. in India. A huge plus.
Baring a small minority, most people are happy with the real. E.g. ask any Ladakhi or Jammu resident or a common Kashmiri. They will tell you how their region was held hostage by a small group of vested interests.
As far as negative comments on this articles, we all know where most of them are coming from. To such people I would say - Concentrate on development of your people. Don't continue to breed snakes and poisonous ideologies. They are as bad for you as they are for the entire world.
God Bless.
11
Good theory but complete non sense. For the sake of argument if this theory is right, who are you to tell 8 million people what is good for them and what is not. Whether Kashmiris make a good choice or bad choice, it is for them to decide . So tell these lies to your own people as you have been telling for decades but no one in the west will buy this nonsense.
4
This is a slam dunk of an article from the Indian Ambassador (in rebuttal to the Pak PM). India is showing Pak its place by not even engaging the Foreign Minister with the Pak PM.
There's a lot more that can be said but for one article this is really good enough.
That point about anti-semitism and not recognizing Israel was a new one for me.
Is anyone taking Pakistan seriously? Doesn't look that way. Now all their hopes are set on creating a ruckus. A nation state reduced to terror and hooliganism as their ultimate weapon. Smh.
10
Sorry, Mr. Shringla. The picture says it all, doesn't it: The fence, shuttered shops, desolate streets, the soldier with his weapons.
3
It is important to ask why only Muslims in the Kashmir valley are asking for independence.
Since 1947 when Maharaja of Kashmir signed article of accession to India, Indian army has been present in the valley. Yet from 1947 to 1989, there was no violence in the valley. Muslims had political power in the state with every chief minister and most ministers in the govt. being Muslims from Kashmir valley. Muslims had preference in professional colleges in the valley, primarily engineering and medical college. Muslims got most of the jobs in state govt. and controlled most of the businesses. Even though there was discrimination against Kashmiri non muslims, by and large Muslims and non Muslims lived together peacefully. Muslims generally practiced a moderate version of Islam. There was no religious persecution of Muslims and for that matter nonmuslims.
In 1980s wahabbism spread to Kashmir and some Kashmiri Muslim youth crossed over to Pakistan and started a terrorist movement to separate from India. They killed a lot of innocent people and in 1990 Kashmiri Pandits, the original inhabitants of the valley were forced out of the valley. Indian govt. responded forcefully to this and rest is history.
The only reason Muslims want to separate is because they are under the influence of wahabbis who believe that wherever Muslims are in majority, they have to separate and impose Shariah. After starting a terrorist movement, it is ironic that valley Muslims are upset at the current situation
11
Siri, show me some Propaganda.
As a Kashmiri, who traces his well-documented lineage to Kashmir as far back as the early 1400s, let me first say that the ambassador seriously underestimates the deep sense of identity that permeates the very soul of every Kashmiri. They have withstood several centuries of cruelty from wave after wave of conquerors but remained steadfast to their true identity. Visions of so-called prosperity will hardly change that. And exactly what prosperity is he talking about? India has done very well in projecting a facade of prosperity - after all, when the world thinks of India, they see Priyanka Chopra, Bollywood dancing, Satya Nadela, Sundar Pichai and of course, the so-called Technology hub of the world - but scratch the surface and drive a few miles away from the big 'showcase' cities and you'll see a country of unimaginable poverty, systemic oppression, gross injustices, rampant corruption, blatant child labor and child abuse, cruelties inflicted upon women under the guise of 'Indian values', a medieval educational and healthcare system, an absolute indifference to the environment and of course, deep seated religious bigotry and hatred, where people are mob-lynched for the simple act of eating beef! And please don't take my word for it - do some google searches and visit India for a week and decide for yourself. Prosperity, indeed!
6
@Dave Rubin
Why should Kashmiria be consulted when they offer no solution at all? They make it all about them. It's not. There are Hindus from Jammu. We can't allow Kashmir to become another Pakistan where Hindus have been reduced to 2 percent.How many times nation has to be partitioned on stupid ideas like- right to decide ones future? It's not as if India is doing isn't giving them equal status as Hindus.
You blame India as if it hasn't tried peaceful solutions. It did. It indulged in dialogue with Kashmiris, Pakistan govt . It seems Pakistan is more interested in promoting virulent Islam, gun worship, killing scope for dialogue,peace by brutally murdering any moderate Kashmiri, esp when they are influential. Same with extremist Kashmiris. They have destroyed whatever moderation that existed. If gun toting extremists dictate how peace is achieved, India has right to use force and amend laws to achieve conditions where peace can be accrued.
7
Interesting that the ambassador uses similar argument used by colonialists suppressing minorities such as Netanyahu in Israel . We are imprisoning scores of people, preventing them from freely practicing their religion and depriving them of basic rights in order for them to prosper. Mr Netanyahu just lost his bid as prime minister and Mr Modi will likely face the same fate as Fascism disguised as Nationalism is receding in many corners of the world. The great nation of India with its long democratic tradition will eventually rise and vote out Mr Modi and his party and get rid of their extremist agenda.
2
Just a quick fact, Kashmir is the one of the most militarized land in the world. it has ratio of 1:10 for civiliains:army.
Now you can image, how people are living.
Also not to forget that 100,000 civilians died i Kashmir in last 30 years by Indian Army. they want independence from India same as Indians 74 years ago want independence from Britishers.
Still you believe, all of them are terrorists?
3
Author is disingenuous.
From the comments, it is clear that India's actions are counterproductive, and they are losing the propaganda war as well as hearts and minds.
2
Is this article a bad joke? Kashmiris are under house arrest and India wants to call this progress? Please, for those Modi supporters out there..look beyond religion, Kashmiris are people who have their own culture. Modi has legitimized lynching of Christians, Dalits and Muslims in India. When will Christians in the west wake up to this terrible tragedy?
4
A more propserous what, Kashmir Occupation? And put it in Opposition to CPEC . Your FO statesman has Already come out open about hurdling the CPEC project. Unions are not a Reflection of any Prosperity inflicted by an infiltration on The Rights and Freedom. Indian Imposition of Superficial political democratic(k)s in the Garb of Hindutva Hedonism. What india actually builds is a monolithic class superficiality based on Religious profundity of a Fascist immorality and a Lowbrow political justification for a boorish, inelegant, stigmatized creed of densely oafish and uncouth republic of spurned masses. Point the finger and bring out a justification on The masses of Population Living below Humanity and under religious oppression. A grim reminder on the real index of Indian Hedonism.
4
What strikes me is the statistic that minorities in Pakistan have gone from 23% to 3% in 60 years.
Why?
Because they gave free-rein to religious fundamentalists and communalists, such as...BJP and RSS in India now.
Give Modi and Amit Shah another 50 years, and India's numbers will be 3%.
Here was Nehru's warning in 1953:
The danger to India, mark you, is not Communism. It is Hindu right-wing communalism
What the ambassador (representing extreme right wing government) is bragging about is the legacy of deliberate if imperfect secularism that Nehru and the founding parents of India have followed for 60 years.
The same Nehru they badmouth on every other occasion.
2
What's with NYT being a debating platform for the two most populous and belligerent neighbours? Aren't you making monetary hay out of the whole issue?
2
Just watch in next 5 years, Modi Indian government will create a flood of development in state of Jammu & Kashmir and the export of J & K will be higher than that of Pakistan.
Educated Kashmiri Muslim know its can prosper under india, They look BanglaDesh which has higher GDP & exports than Pakistan and their economy is growing much faster than Pakistan with India help.
Pakistan is doomed to failure because of terrorist activity, they should change the course or it will cease to exist, it will dis-integrate to Balochistan & Sind.
9
As my dad would say, "this is what putting lipstick on pig looks like."
3
A pox on both their houses.
You cannot build a vibrant economy with the citizens locked down and children unable (or rather scared) to go to school. Get Real.
Kashmir is locked down for the last SIX weeks and the local administration is afraid to open it up. Leaders are under house arrest. Mobile telephones are shut down and land lines partially opened up.
Here is how journalists are treated (from an Indian Newspaper):
https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/day-of-hell-for-journalist-in-srinagar/cid/1703539
2
Mr Ambassador! How about simply asking the people of Kashmir if they are OK with the so called development that Modi administration so desperately desires for them? Do you think Kashmiris as human beings have a birth right to decide whether they want independence, affiliation with India or with Pakistan?
As you know, most Kashmiris want Autonomy that was promised to them under Article 370. The plebiscite that was promised over and over again to the Kashmiris never took place, for the simple fear of the already known outcome that Kashmiris will vow for Independence from India as well as from Pakistan. Who are we to decide the course of development on an 8 million people without asking their consent? How do you know the development you are seeking is the right course of action without their consent?
There are 150 million Muslims in India who willingly call India their Mother Land, and still get 2nd class citizen treatment. When given the choice at the time of Partition, they chose to stay in India. But Kashmiri Muslims did not. They have a right to determine for themselves, and We the People of India must respect that right. Nepal and Bhutan are both autonomous countries but live in perfect harmony with India. So can Kashmir. Think about it. 800,000 soldiers needed to shut the Kashmiris and shoot them at will. Why? When will India stop hating Muslims? When will Modi administration stop hating Muslims? We have so many other problems, poverty, corruption, pollution, illetracy!
2
Prosperous for whom? All the Hindu real estate developers that are salivating at this point and waiting to swoop in? And for a soon-to-be Hindu majority Kashmir? Be under no illlusion - the ambassador is a mouthpiece for the RSS-run Hindu Nationalist party masquerading as the BJP.
Mark my words - Kashmir will become a Muslim minority state in the next 10 years.
3
Any time a country takes the rights away from some of its citizens, it is wrong. Full stop. Very few of us in the States believe your propaganda campaign.
2
total propaganda that glosses over the factthat millions of Kashmiris are still under communication and travel blockades.
1
700,000 soldiers, complete blockade and thousands of innocent civilians killed in the name of progress and prosperity. Nice try Ambassador!
1
It’s sickening to read Indian officials lie through their teeth when commenting on Kashmir, while innocent Kashmiris suffer under a brutal Indian military clampdown. For 72 years India has continued to mute Kashmiri voices by labeling any act of Kashmiri resistance against Indian occupation as “instigated by Pakistan.” It’s no surprise to see the Indian ambassador use similar tactics. India’s policy in Kashmir closely resembles that of the Hindu Maharaja who forced the accession of the State of J & K to India in 1947, craftily robbing his people, the majority of whom were Muslims, of their right to accede to Pakistan, India, or remain Independent. Any political leadership in Kashmir that challenged this accession was gagged through imprisonment or forced immigration to Pakistan. The same tactics of gagging political dissent is used by Modi in Kashmir since August 5. Today, a few Kashmiri politicians were allowed to buy their freedom in exchange for turning completely mute.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/mirwaiz-umar-farooq-four-other-kashmiri-leaders-sign-bonds-to-secure-release/article29462227.ece
If removal of articles 370 and 35A, was the best thing to happen to the yet underdeveloped Kashmir and to —what one would believe from the Ambassador’s islamophobia inspired description of — the Kashmiri Muslims, than shouldn’t his country allow all foreign media to openly observe and report on this benevolent Indian miracle unfolding in Kashmir since August 5.
2
It was high time India presented its perspective after prime minister of Pakistan (PAK) Imran Khan's op ed in NY Times and several baseless opinions maligning India in a number of media outlets. There were also highly biased and deceptive opinions in the NY Times without an opportunity to correct falsehoods. The most appalling article was one that had showed ignorance of history about the origin of the so called stateless Muslims in the state of Assam in India.
As secular independent country for 72 years, India has one the largest Muslim population 2nd only to Indonesia in 2010 and by 2050, India will have the highest Muslims in the world according to Pew.
The inter faith harmony in India and equal rights and opportunities for people of all faiths is just astounding and I have seen this every time I visit India. Yes there are sporadic and sparse cases of injustice to minorities by unsocial elements but in a country of 1.2 + billion diverse people this would be expected though not condoned. The per capita income of the Muslims in India is possibly higher than that of PAK. Muslims millionaires in India are quite numerous and it would be fair to say overall the thriving Muslims in India are free to practice their faith unhindered and the BJP govt of Modi has been fair to the minorities although the representation of Muslims in his cabinet and parliament is thin.
Recent anti-India reports may seem like Kashmir is paradise lost. In reality Kashmir's future looks bright.
4
It was high time India presented its perspective after prime minister of Pakistan (PAK) Imran Khan's op ed in NY Times and several baseless opinions maligning India in a number of media outlets. There were also highly biased and deceptive opinions in the NY Times without an opportunity to correct falsehoods. The most appalling article was one that had showed ignorance of history about the origin of the so called stateless Muslims in the state of Assam in India.
As secular independent country for 72 years, India has one the largest Muslim population 2nd only to Indonesia in 2010 and by 2050, India will have the highest Muslims in the world according to Pew.
The inter faith harmony in India and equal rights and opportunities for people of all faiths is just astounding and I have seen this every time I visit India. Yes there are sporadic and sparse cases of injustice to minorities by unsocial elements but in a country of 1.2 + billion diverse people this would be expected though not condoned. The per capita income of the Muslims in India is possibly higher than that of PAK. Muslims millionaires in India are quite numerous and it would be fair to say overall the thriving Muslims in India are free to practice their faith unhindered and the BJP govt of Modi has been fair to the minorities although the representation of Muslims in his cabinet and parliament is thin.
Recent anti-India reports may seem like Kashmir is paradise lost. In reality Kashmir's future looks bright.
3
At its founding in 1947 , Pakistan had 14% Non-Muslims i.e. Christians, Hindus & Sikhs. They have been reduced to 2% now by ethnic cleansing & forced conversion to Islam. In 1947, India had 5% Muslims, India now has 15% Muslims. Over 200 Millions live in India happily. They are free to go to Pakistan or 45 + other Muslim countries, but they don't.
Article 370 was temporary provision introduced in 1954, six years after UN Resolution on Kashmir in 1948 & has been removed by India's Parliament. Eight Million Kashmir Muslims now have the same rights which 190+ Million Indian Muslims & rest of Indians have. Why it is a problem? India is a secular country like USA . It has another Muslim majority State & a few Christian majority States too. Finally if 83% Hindu Bali can be part of a Muslim Indonesia, why it is a problem that 60%+ Muslim Kashmir is part of Secular India? All the hypocrites badmouthing India need to do some soul searching
5
What Modi is doing here is defensible, what he is doing in Assam is less so.
This is the first time ever (as far I know) NYT wrote a balance article on India. NYT, Welcome to India, and get rid of your Left liberal journalist. Kashmir is one of the "big unjust" done on India by Nehru.
It is classically undone by our twin Chanakyas, Modi & Shah. People of India stand by them.
7
I’ll never understand why the Times runs these kinds of articles. In the face of horrible repression and military occupation of a people clearly opposed, with their right to self determination and human rights being trampled upon by a clearly anti-Muslim government: oh no, it’s actually about economic development! What kind of rubes do you think we are
2
What a touching article from Modi's mouthpiece. I've always wanted to hear how a propagandist for Modi's brand of nationalism speaks. Funny how there's no mention of the fact that Kashmir is supposed to get an independence referendum that India has avoided over the decades because of the demographics of Kashmir. I guess someone is afraid of losing a vote.
So, when are we going to get an opinion piece from a Kashmiri Muslim on this matter while we're at it?
Oh wait, I guess we won't since none of them have any access to the outside world after India decided to march in with its army, start shooting them, and lock down the entire region with its army.
3
Finally an honest look at the situation, rather than Pakistani propaganda. Kashmir is part of India, has always been part of India, and will always be part of India. Article 370 was a misogynist, theocratic abomination that attempted to appease terrorism by imposing sharia. The only result was a fostered sense of Muslim superiority that resulted in the ethnic cleansing of non-Muslims.
The Kashmiris have blood on their hands. They need to be dragged in to the 21st century, by force if necessary, and shown that they are equal citizens of a secular state, nothing more, nothing less. The influence of terrorist theocracy Pakistan must be eliminated. This is the only way forward.
Jai Hind!
PS: Those of you suggesting that Kashmir should be independent are very naive, if Kashmir ever became independent Pakistan would invade the next day.
3
I m from Kashmir (srinagar) , Indian politicians and media have no ethics shame or humanity. We want freedom from India and Pakistan, let us live in peace.
All non resident Indians who support Modi, if India was such a great country why you guys live in west why dont go back to prosperous India of Modi .
We dont need your prosperity you better help millions of poor and helpless in India
2
What is exactly Pakistan?
Pakistan More or less a normal country until Butto hanged by Ziya ul Haq in 1970's.
If you look how the evil is created , you are going to find that particular time in history is very certain. late 1970's
These were the years , Communist USSR was rampant and USA kicked out from Vietnam.
CIA manufactured in its political Laboratory perfect anti-communist tool. Islamic extremism as a counter measure to 1979 Afghanistan Invasion by USSR.
Following 4 decade proved CIA tool was the perfect annihilator of the communism and socialism.
Pakistan's then leader , Ziya Ul Haq was the front man for CIA and he implemented this Islamic extremism tool in Pakistan with the money flowing from Saudi-Gulf Emirates.
Pakistan today is not that much different from the Afghanistan , teetering at the edge of the falling in to the abyss of Total Islamic extremist regime.
Pakistan and India , even though they may have serious poverty and human right issues, cannot be comparable. Pakistan is a lost country with no hope.
Therefore Kashmir will be better if isolated from Pakistan.
4
I was born and grew up through the Indian occupation of Kashmir. We know everything you do there, NYT op-ed belies that. It is all politics for you. Just that Imran khan wrote an op-ed you wanted to get even. Kashmiris don’t trust you and your gimmicks.
2
India had very good reason for restricting internet and phone. It learned from the past. In 2017 when Indian security forces killed the terrorist leader a urban Wani the terrorists with Pakistan backing incited the population to resort to stone pelting ans other forms of violence and security force firing in rerun. This resulted in the death of 37 or so people in Kashmir valley. This time there was no civilian death since the abrogation of art 370. Pakistan would want nothing better than to have civilian deaths as evidence of its ‘genocide’ rhetoric. Oth, terrorists have killed an apple trader for opening his shop and also wounded four of a family including a 6 yr old girl because her father dared to conduct trading. Neither Pakistan nor the terrorists want the normalcy to return in the valley. India has removed most of the restrictions to communication and people movement in the valley (there were no such restrictions in Ladakh or Jammu).
India is determined to defeat the terrorists and Islamist who want to make Kashmir Muslim only enclave ( they drove away the Hindu minority Pandits by threats and violence.
Those mentioning plebiscite should know hat independence was not an option, it was either join Pakistan or remain with India. As another NYT article mentioned, Pakistan is hell bent on quashing any demand of independence in its part of Kashmir so much so that any elected official has to take oath of sticking with Pakistan and no talk of independence
7
What a shame ,you have literally caged 8 million people.deprived them of the basic human rights. You refuse to let them even speak a word.you have put the leaders,business people and influential folks behind bars. And have the audacity to say its for the sake of development. Shame india,we now can see the true colors of this anti human government.
3
Ambassador Shringla, I can only hope that it benefits not only Hindu Kashmiris but also Muslim Kashmiris. I would hope this is not a BJP-Modi ploy.
2
PM Imran khan is saber rattling to keep domestic constituency busy somewhere else ? Pakistan economy in doldrums and common man has to suffer unbearable inflation. Imagine tomatoes selling at Rs 300 !!!
Both India and Pakistan excel in IT. India produces world class IT (Information Technology )professionals where as Pakistan exports world class International Terrorists(IT). All 9/11 terrorists were trained in AFPAK region. Osama Bin Laden was killed in Pakistani Garrison city of Rawalpindi.
Some time, I wonder, What American Think tanks are smoking ? America spent $ 1 Trillion in Afghanistan. Thousands of American Soldiers and innocent civilians killed, yet no end to terrorism. Taliban still surviving(Rocking), Why ? Taliban is provided sanctuary in Pakistan ... All the money is going into the pockets of Pakistani Army/ISI .... America should pursue following policy to uproot international terrorism in AFPAK region.
1) Roots of Global terrorism is in Pakistan. Western Money is used to water/fertilize these roots. There is no point fighting in dust bowls/mountains of Afghanistan
2) Stop all financial aid to Pakistan until it stops providing financial support /military training/ sanctuary to terrorists organisation on its soil.
3) Stop drug trade which fuels terror
4) Its time we call spade a spade. We should blacklist Pakistan in FATF
Terrorism tree will die its own death if stop watering its roots.
3
Pure and simple propaganda for the right wing, Hindu fundamentalist Modi government.
1
Prosperous? Sure. But at what human cost? Or don't Muslim lives count anymore in Modi's India?
1
Why are either of these politicians allowed access to this page. Neither cares about Kashmir, although of course it is currently the Hindutva fascism displayed here by the ambassador that has turned Kashmir into a prison for its population, abrogated all civil and political rights for the people of Kashmir, and violated guarantees given by India after partition.
1
Ambassador Harsh,
First of all, that is a really good name for your government's policies. You are depriving millions of their citizenship based on religion -- the last time a regime undertook this "modernization" it yielded the Holocaust.
Lets face facts, India is a dark ages country behind a thin veneer of IT modernity. What else can one say about a nation where millions are held on bondage as "untouchables," and widows are pushed into the funeral pyres of their husbands.
2
Good writeup. Makes sense as well. Some relief from pro terrorism propaganda
2
What a load of rubbish... Who, exactly, will prosper? The people of Kashmir or the Indian businesses who are given free reign.
No people have ever prospered when it is imposed at end of a gun-barrel
1
and the chinese are building a more prosperous Tibet,
but i cant find it on the map anymore.....
kashmir zindabad!
1
The first words of any conquerer is that we're here to make your lives better. Except its probably not true and the speaker/writer knows this.
1
An article with a racial ,hate language .You prime minister Modi is very bad .
Narendra Modi is building multimillion-dollar monuments while India's poorest citizens die of hunger and preventable diseases. Modi’s crackdown on civil society in India ,
Modi Killed the Gandhi Dynasty , he
managed to overthrow its founding family – but replaced it with a new form of personality cult. He does not deserve to be in his post , as long as he hates other religions , including Muslims.
1
Let the Jammu and Kashmir people decide their own fate it was the instrumental acccesion between India and Jammu and Kashmir legal principle of colourable legislation “What cannot be done directly. Can’t be done indirectly”
So the India’s has murdered our own constitution.
Rest we know what is preamble again India murdered preamble.
In 21 century People want to reach moon we are in back 1980’s were we have to sent parrot for message kashmir is a country without post office!
Now came into the atrocities were one year kids are blind due to pellet gun, let’s take an example of wamiq farooq he was 7 years old kid whom Security forces killed let’s go for kunan poshpora rape cases its only Indian security forces who did but these news you will never publish.
Today we are fighting for basic Human rights and Fundamental rights people are not able to acces hospitals, schools, emergency services kids are dying without milk, cancer patient are not able to acces hospitals, kidney failure are not able to go for dialysis. So India is doing good as per your report.
Apples are getting rotten in orchard fields Jammu Kashmir economy is dying.
2
Shame on you Mr Ambassador. While your job description may require you to mouth whatever lies the fascist Indian regime requires, your moral compass should tell you otherwise. This is very simple - the 45 day, unprecedented siege of the Kashmiris must end now. You have caged them like animals and expect the world to turn the other way. We shall not. Your Prime Minister has run your economy to the ground himself - he is now wagging the dog to pick up more Hindutva supporters. This is a black mark on India, one that you cannot merely sweep under the rug.
1
Let Ambassador Cui Tiankai write about China wanting to build a Prosperous future for Hong Kong.
1
Another Indian who thinks gold is god.
This racist mindset of Hindutva India is the reason Kashmiris want out.
Kashmiri muslims don't want to be lower caste hindus living by their leave.
This is exactly why Pakistan parted from Hindu dominated India
2
Prime Minister Narendra Modi was a mass murderer in Gujarat, and is now a tyrant in Kashmir. He belongs in jail.
2
Why in the world the NYT have to publish a biased article by a representative of a governments that is attacking democratic institutions and spreading dangerous nationalistic populism? The government that is openly leading an anti-muslim movement? This is highly unprofessional and disturbing.
1
Really Mr Ambassador, India is building a new and prosperous Kashmir ? And how is it doing that. By locking down Kashmiris with no internet and phones available. An armed soldier at the door of every house. Complete curfew and shoot at sight orders. No vehicular traffic including ambulances allowed on roads. Hospitals without medicine and grocery stores shut down. This is how you are making Kashmir prosperous. By using shot guns on school going children, by jailing kids as little as 11 years old; by raping women in front of their husbands, brothers and children. I'm a Kashmiri, born and raised in Srinagar and I know the facts there. Your white lies and propaganda cannot alter the facts or deceive the world. Looks like you and your government have taken a page directly out of Orwell's " 1984 " where truths are lies and lies are truths. Shame on you!
2
For the first time I have seen such an opinion piece written by Indian Ambassador and published in the New York Times. Hearty Congratulations New York Times for publishing the version of India for once.
He has completely demolished the false claim of Imran Khan and the so called liberals.
3
a good thoughtful article..obsession of Pakistan of being compared to India has destroyed Pakistani & will b fatal to Pakistan very soon. Hope better sense prevail and Pakistan also gets on to path of progress and prosperity & move away from creating terror factories & jihads.
3
India has a right to progress without the fear of terrorism .
The naysayers who hide behind the phrase “ human rights” ignore or are ignorant about the impact of fundamentalism against non- Muslims.
The west chooses to protest with no cultural knowledge of India or ground realities .
3
This article isn't about Kashmir - it's about beef with Pakistan. Furthermore, we want to hear from Kashmiris about how they are doing! This is like asking a lion how the gazelle feels as it's being hunted - surely, the lion would say, 'ah, the chase is all in good fun, and, in the end, everyone benefits'.
1
The only benefit to Article 370 (the provision that granted Kashmir autonomy) was that it was making a couple families rich and powerful.
These families, had, for three generations, used Article 370 to blackmail the federal government by encouraging secession and even terrorism.
I am surprised India let this blackmailing happen for this long.
3
A very true and timely article. Most of the lack of development and progress has been instigated by Islamic groups who have threatened and killed business owners (hotels were told not to have guests, so were restaurants and other places), schools and colleges were banned and so were any offices/cultural places. This is nothing new, Taliban and other Islamic groups have undertaken such barbaric and medieval measures to stem any growth all over the Muslim world. Also, interesting to see Muslims talk about human rights-Hindus were thrown out of Kashmir by them en masse (many Hindu refugees are found in Delhi and Mumbai). Islam has held Kashmir hostage for a very long time, it is now free to assert itself and to build a better life for its people. You don't hear voices because those terrorist voices have now been silent by India.
4
Clear, hard-hitting and well written. This piece exposes the hypocrisy of Imran Khan and the Pakistani Generals who need conflict to remain relevant. Ladhak and Jammu have been vocal in their support of and in their long-standing demand for the abrogation of Article 370, as have most Kashmiris. Certainly, some Kashmiris, mainly the Jihadis, brainwashed or paid off youth or trained and influenced terrorists from Pakistan's terror factories will try and bring violence and bloodshed in the coming weeks.
But, peace and progress will prevail.
Reading the letters of some of my Pakistani brothers, one can see that they only seem to be talking about Kashmiris who may be Muslim and shedding tears for the loss of freedom there. Yes, the situation is far from ideal, but this is mainly due to 74 years of article 370 and the Pakistani establishment's meddling and export of terror.
The is no mention about the area of the state handed over by Pakistan to China or of the systemic torture and devastation inflicted by their corrupt and spoilt military within their own country. Please shed a tear for Balochistan, for the Pashtuns, for Waziristan, for Sindh, for POK, and for the millions of hardworking and large-hearted Pakistani common people you have crushed and beggared. Fat generals in their palaces sending young soldiers and jihadis to slaughter others need a reality check.
5
You cannot justify human rights abuses, by hiding blaming other countries or news organizations. Please ask Kashmiris, what they want.
2
A population bent upon self determination and independence will ultimately accomplish it by approaching the UN or some other means. Kashmir is heading that way. My hope is that the solution to Kashmir lies in the way a solution was found in Northern Ireland.
1
Lets talk about the blatant lies put forward by the ambassador:
1. "One provision prevented Kashmiri women who married non-Kashmiris from passing on their inheritance to their children or having property rights."
Truth: Kashmiri women are well within their right to marry whoever they want. There is no such law in the article 370 which prevents them and their children from having property rights.
2. "it was an obstacle to progressive legislation prevalent in the rest of India, such as affirmative action, equal rights for women, juvenile protection and safeguards against domestic violence. Laws that protect the right to education and information under the Indian Constitution did not apply in Jammu and Kashmir."
The State law in its current form is far better than all the above stated legislation. For example the Article 370 gives right to every state subject a right to free education till University( graduate) level, while as the Indian constitution gives right to free education only till High School.
With regards to setting up industries, any Indian firm can easily get a 90 year lease which should be a sufficient period to do business.
The fact that the Kashmiri people have been put under severe lock down since 2 months, with their autonomy unilaterally removed is a travesty of justice. And looking back at Indians long history of human rights violation it doesn't come as a surprise.
2
As an Indo-American, I’m ashamed of this piece of propaganda. Many Pakistanis and Indians were excited when Imran Khan, the playboy cricketer, became Pakistan’s leader. They saw in him a peacemaker resolving the Kashmir dispute and the subcontinent’s perpetual conflict—a legacy of India’s partition when British left.
Modi’s election, with his Party’s anti-minority record, deeply concerned India’s Muslims, Christians, Dalits and Sikhs. They, however, saw a glimpse of hope that he’ll use his strong electorate mandate to pursue harmony, peace, and prosperity in the region.
There’s also much at stake for our own interfaith family—a Hindu-Muslim union. I dread the prospect of any war—surely to affect already tenuous communal relations in the mainland because Kashmiris are majority Muslim wanting independence.
As Indo-Americans, we’re also appalled that India’s nonviolent Gandhian image is dying under an ever aggressive India. Modi government chooses conflict with an extremist Hindutva agenda. Both nations armed with the ultimate weapon, our world risks a nuclear winter.
2
Sir, just because the US was stupid in 2016 doesn’t mean the hell India has inflicted on Kashmir will get by us all, too. Don’t blame you for trying, but we’re not all that stupid. What do you think, Pakistan will just let this go. More war, more killing of innocent people. Never ends.
1
"...and terrorism will fail." Surely you can't dismiss the voice of 8 million Kashmiris as a case of terrorism. Surely it is not Imran Khan who has instilled in the minds of the Kashmiri people that they should be free. Surely Pakistan hasn't conned the Kashmiri people into thinking that they are under Indian occupation. Give them their due credit; they just want to be free from India. Seventy two years of Kashmiris saying no to India should have meant something to India.
Of course, many thanks for voicing your opinion in NYT, for it stands as clear proof that living in an exceptionally free nation, the United States, does not per se confer freedom of thought and expression on a diplomat. Hence he must simply act as a toady of his Government.
2
Thank you ambassador for pointing out why this move was so necessary! This article was TEMPORARY and created a safe haven for terrorists. Its removal was LONG OVERDUE!
4
As a lawyer, I find these "interests" in the Government of India's recent decision to scrap Article 370 and 35 A concerning Jammu and Kashmir rather amusing! To begin with both these Articles were incorporated as a favor to a person of the time, but both these Articles are labelled in clear terms as "Transient" and "Temporary". India is a sovereign nation, its Parliament, representing the Nation through its regular periodic national Elections based on Universal Suffrage, can, and did, indeed abrogate these two transient Articles, deeming it as both timely and warranted. Now, the artificial limitations imposed on mobility and transferrability, adversely impacting the region's economic and political movement ahead, are rightly removed. Onward, India Moves Ahead!
1
It's not shocking to me that the Indian official would paint everything is normal in Kashmir, blame Pakistan for terrorism, and not talk about illegal actions against their constitution.
It's been 44days since the invasion of Kashmir by the "Occupation Forces." I don't call them security forces because they never gave security to ppl of Kashmir. Instead, they terrorized them, beat them on the way back from school/playground. They raped Kashmiri women, blinded young boys by pallet guns, used men as a human shield, killed over 100K in 72 years and still India is trying to tell that, "We are good guys."
You cannot undo what you have done in 72yrs w the ppl of Kashmir. You turned an innocent civilian into a militant because he got tired of your torture. Then you told the world that this militant that Ind created, came from Pak. The world can buy your lies, but Kashmiri people will not. The reality on the ground will always contradict with what any current Indian officia has to say.
The signs at Indian shops read as, "Dogs are allowed but not Kashmiris." Another slogan chanted by some RSS supporters in the US is saying that "Kashmir will be dead." Your one minister said, "We will buy Kashmiri land and also enslave women." You are being nice and saying "married" but your ideology is enslaving people and thinking of them as second class citizens.
In a democracy, people have rights and are being heard. You cut all the communication and imposed an inhuman curfew to suppress voices
10
@Usman
The signs at Indian shops read as, "Dogs are allowed but not Kashmiris." Another slogan chanted by some RSS supporters in the US is saying that "Kashmir will be dead." Your one minister said, "We will buy Kashmiri land and also enslave women." You are being nice and saying "married" but your ideology is enslaving people and thinking of them as second class citizens.
---any references to the above? The first one especially is so ridiculously laughable, that it negates everything you are trying to say here
This is a great example of verbal aggression against both Pakistan (blaming the prime minister instead of the principal villains, the Pakistani military rulers) and the people of Kashmir (disguised as "helping" Kashmir by eliminating their own culture). Not that I hold any brief for Pakistan, but India used to be better; now it seems to be competing to be a miltaristic, religious, undemocratic state. Viva Modi?
4
India can’t build basic sanitation infrastructure, but they are going to help Kashmir? That’s rich. Watch out for a bunch of Indian H1Bs coming to defend the motherland in the comments section, while enjoying the freedom in the US that their government is now denying others.
6
It's funny how the people and what they want barely get a mention here. Nor the reason a massive troop buildup, curfews imposed, political prisoners taken, roadblocks setup, phone lines and internet cut off. All of the great things you mentioned would have been possible to do without any of this.
I'm sure the British invaders 200 years ago also liked to talk about how they were doing great things for the development of this backwards land.
283
@Vinay Pai who will provide security and how to rid the place of violent terrorists?
British had no claim to the land while India has a legitimate claim on Kashmir.
Are you aware of the atrocities committed by the violent terrorists in the region since the 80s?
25
@Vinay Pai 70 years of the approach you mentioned didn't get India anywhere. Time to try something different to get different results, whatever they are.
16
@Vinay Pai
Well, Mr Pai (or in the garb of Mr. Pai), let me say this, it makes no logical sense to push Kashmir to Pakistan, now or ever. Pakistan is a melting pot and global couldron for 44 different terrorist organizations. Please visit South Asian Terrorist Portal for objective data.
20
Two convenient facts the ambassador forgot to mention.
1) The "province" has been under a virtual communication blackout and a curfew for more than a month. Sounds an odd way to bring prosperity and development.
2) Kashmir is considered the most militarized region on the planet with close to 700,000 troops deployed for 30+ years. That's more than odd and needs to be discussed.
70
@Basit: The Ambassador did not forget anything that has not already been covered in the news. As much as you'd like people to believe but what you are pointing out is a stale narrative that pakistan and its sympathizers do every time.
I will try to respond to your two points below:
1) Yes, the province is under communication blackout to deny gossip mongering from spreading. It's a standard operating procedure across the world. I remember several years ago (2009?), when the protests were planned against WTO in Oakland, California, the first thing authorities did was blocked the BART stations and disrupted cell phone communication to deny protestors the opportunity to coordinate their move. This happened in a country that calls itself "the Land of the Free". With that said, communication black out is not in all of the "province". Majority of Jammu and Ladakh has the phone line restored. Except 4 or 5 districts in the Kashmir Valley, the phone communications has also been restored.
2) "Kashmir" region is most militarized because this part of India is sandwiched between two very hostile neighboring countries. Military is stationed near the border to guard the frontiers. You don't expect a country to leave the borders unattended, do you? Let's discuss the number of Pakistani troops in areas adjoining India. Those areas do not have any issues, right? Then why the Pakistani army has troop presence so close to the Indian border? J&K Police handles Law & Order issues.
8
@Rahul, In your comparative examples, I would like to ask as to how many days/hours was Oakland under a blackout. Was the whole of Oakland blocked out. Were all means of communication blocked out ( cellular/internet services/landlines). You say comms in majority of J&K is now restored. On what basis? Population/ geographic size?Do you the stats? Even then, only landlines are restored. Cellular and internet services are still blocked. Imagine living in such a blackout for even a week, lest more than a month. Imagine going thru the basic need of contacting your loved ones in such a situation.
Militarization of Kashmir has been resisted but the Indian Army was and is capable of winning over popular support. But popular support does not come when you abolish a constitutional provision without dialogue with the people concerned. Agreed, they may have never agreed if you took their opinion them. But consensus building was the whole point. Instead what is being done is that democratically elected leaders are being imprisoned.
The way the situation is panning out, we may have just began the journey of complete distrust with the people of J&K. Very unfortunate indeed.
1
@Basit: The Ambassador did not forget anything that has not already been covered in the news. As much as you'd like people to believe but what you are pointing out is a stale narrative that pakistan and its sympathizers do every time.
I will try to respond to your two points below:
1) Yes, the province is under communication blackout to deny gossip mongering from spreading. It's a standard operating procedure across the world. I remember several years ago (2009?), when the protests were planned against WTO in Oakland, California, the first thing authorities did was blocked the BART stations and disrupted cell phone communication to deny protestors the opportunity to coordinate their move. This happened in a country that calls itself "the Land of the Free". With that said, communication black out is not in all of the "province". Majority of Jammu and Ladakh has the phone line restored. Except 4 or 5 districts in the Kashmir Valley, the phone communications has also been restored.
contd....
1
Let's listen to all the voices coming out of Kashmir.
Wait, there are no voices coming out of Kashmir!
108
@Raza
Sufficient noises in the grab of proxies of a particular country has been heard for more than 7 decades.
So any change is welcome..
25
@Raza plenty of voices from Ladakh and Jammu have been jubliant to be freed from the yoke of Kashmir and Article 370.. But then they never counted in your schemeof things.
11
@Raza
Yes. But first let the hundreds of Kashmiri Pundit families that were ethnic-cleansed, murdered and hounded out of the valley speak of their plight.
12
When the first step of your plan requires a complete, extended, media blackout of the affected people, perhaps its not really about their well being.
What is India's revitalization plan? How will it ensure that the Kashmiri minorities are given equal voice? How much money is India willing to invest?
The stories that make it past the media blackout portray India and its military in a very negative light.
56
@Umar
it has been only 6 weeks since Article 360 was removed. this is only the first step. Allow time for normalization!
And revitalization will follow. Modi is scheduled to be in Kashmir in October for talks about the economy.
10
@Umar
Anil Nadella
India1m ago
Some context for the Americans regarding the Kashmiri Internet blackout. In 2016, after the death of a popular militant, violent protests broke out in Kashmir valley resulting in death of 37 people in first week. Over 300 Whatsapp groups were used to organize stone pelters and inflammatory videos originating from Pakistan were shared widely in social media to incite the public. If there were no temporary internet restrictions, people will die. Its a choice between definite loss of lives and temporary internet restrictions. These restrictions are being phased out gradually by local Kashmiri administration under the Governor.
9
@jack Since you are repeating this comment everywhere, I will also post the same response.
With restriction or not, people are and still are gonna die. There is only one thing Kashmiris want and this freedom from India. You cant suppress (some would even say oppress) a group of people for decades. India claims to be the largest democracy in the world but they don't respect the human rights of the Kashmiris. There has been unjust in Kashmir, mass rapes, mass massacres, enforced disappearances. None that would ever be reported in the Indian media. You can't revoke someone's autonomy without consulting their parliament. That's an attack. Kashmiris were never consulted. The Kashmiris were never considered. You cannot justify this no matter what.
2
"Mr. Khan has criticized India for its treatment of Muslims and other non-Hindu minorities. This would be laughable if the reality was not so tragic."
Note that the ambassador does not bother to dispute this claim at any point.
256
@Alex
Pakistan ceded Aksai Chin from J&K to China, and has been silent about persecution of Uighur Muslims in China. Pakistani PM Khan recently said he " didn't know much about the issue" when asked about the Chinese mass detention centers.
64
@Alex
Claims not supported by fact do not need refuting, by definition.
The Ambassador point out the hypocrisy of the person making these allegations. Who then goes on to paint a dire picture and threaten nuclear apocalypse. Laughable, is apt.
53
@Alex The claim by PM Khan is absurd and intentionally misleading. No person knowing India well and is her well-wisher will even bother to respond to that.
Amb. Shringla made a valid point that in Pakistan, the minorities have reduced from 23% (1947) to 2% (2019). Hope you read that as well. On the contrary, the population of Indian Muslims (both in Kashmir and elsewhere in the country) has only steadily grown ( https://twitter.com/samirsaran/status/1168211418346221568?s=20 ).
India has had Muslims at the highest positions in public life, politics, entertainment, business, sports and every other field. On the other hand, Pakistan is a declared Islamic nation where non-Muslims (including certain sects of Muslims) are systemically discriminated as per it's constitution.
I've spent all my life in the sub-continent and have been a student of South Asia to know too much and fall for Pakistani state-sponsored propoganda
113
It's rich to claim that stripping Kashmiris of their rights and freedoms will somehow bring them prosperity and rejuvenate their state's economy while at the very same time India's own economy is visibly spiraling into crisis due to incompetence and mismanagement.
103
@Kaushik
Let's keep in mind that economic growth happens in waves of ups and downs. Nowhere would you find continuous upward numbers for decades at a stretch, that is nature the of economics. Today the growth rate in India is at 5.6%, down from 8%. The current 5.6% is still way higher than most countries around the world; they would salivate to have their economies grow at even 5%! So let's not get carried away by media sensationalism.
19
@Kaushik Kashmir has bled India for a long time. It was time to close the door and take care of business.
12
@Kaushik
What are you talking about? India has made enormous strides in every sphere. If it is one country, there should be one rule. No special status to anyone.
18
Whataboutery at its finest. This article whitewashes the human rights violations that are occurring in Kashmir against women, children, and innocent civilians as we speak. It whitewashes the hateful, virulent ethnonationalism, fascism, Islamophobia, and settler colonialism that drives the repeal of Article 370 and the communication blackout (which by the way still exists). This is not how a democracy behaves. This is the kind of dehumanization and systematic oppression that precedes genocide. If India is a democracy with nothing to hide, why won’t it let international media and observers into Kashmir and let the Kashmir people speak and determine their own future?
297
@Alisa
You seem to be conveniently forgetting the atrocities of the Islamic terrorists perpetuated on Kashmiris, including the religiously minority Hindus.
If you want to find out what is happening on the ground today in Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh all you have to do is to read correspondent's reports in news outlets like theprint.in--the local press in India is by and large independent, so not all reports favor the government's position.
The vast majority of Jammu and Kashmir, in terms of area, is peaceful. People in both Jammu and Ladakh have by and large welcomed the government's measures. Nobody is being stifled. Free communication has been used in the past by terrorists to perpetuate their crimes. Therefore, some restrictions have been placed. Even now terrorists are intimidating locals from sending their children to school or from opening their businesses. So who is fooling whom and for how long?
72
There cannot be functioning civil society ,democracy or exercise of human rights unless there is peace and stability .Can you allow democracy to function when a segment of population is attracted to a virulent violent ideology?Can democracy allow exercise of free will to disturb peace between
communities?
The wind of nihilistic violent repressive ideology of Taliban in Afghanistan is blowing across the borders of Khyber Paktunkwa province of Pakistan into Indian Kashmir.Indians are following the examples of Americans in Afghanistan and Pakistan in North Waziristan
21
@Alisa
Alisa, I agree, we can't justify bystander effect and collateral damage.
However, we are taking a snapshot of the events, not a panoramic view wherein, Pakistani complicity and atrocities need to be viewed. Operation Topac is still an active concern and has caused more morbidity and mortality. Please visit South Asian Terrorist Portal to see the civilian and terrorist deaths inside Kashmir. Let us do a head to head comparison between the atrocities in Kashmir versus Pakistan for any particular year. The truth will be evident.
27
Well, the article is a lot of truth. i dont agree with the way the abrogation has been done. However, lets say that all the restrictions are removed. Dealing with kashmiris is fine. Dealing with pakistan fueled violence. Therein lies the problem. Someone writes why dont they allow independent observers into kashmir. Why should they. Would pakistan allow independent observers into balochistan, america into guantanomo bay. Where were the human rights violations when 190 civilians were killed in mumbai
Some simple comments.
1) The repeal of Article 370 was not the elimination or reduction of Democracy. It simply gave Kashmir the same rights and democratic duties enjoyed by the rest of India. There was no reduction in rights, and in practices, what was changed was a reduction in discriminations that had been enshrined in Kashmir laws. And frankly, while India may not have the best democracy in the world, it has a substantially better one than the US, what with the US’s electoral college elected minority supported President, it’s highly undemocratic Senate, and the highly gerrymandered House. The idea that US elections are not even nominally run by a neutral party, leads to ridiculous situations such as a candidate’s brother determining the results of the electoral college votes in Florida in 2000, supported by the politically and partisan elected judges in the Supreme Court.
2) The Indian government’s poor planning, which has now led to over a month of restrictions in Kashmir reeks not just of incompetence, but an indifference to the pain of Kashmiri people which is ridiculous. Much like in other endeavors it has undertaken, such as demonetization, the government is repeating a pattern of following big ideas, but being woefully underprepared, which leads to their objectives being completely lost. Modi needs to get off the streets of Houston and into the streets of Srinagar and urgently normalize the situation.
4
India is culturally the most diverse country and has the second largest Muslim population in the world. From Presidents to Chief Justices of Supreme Court to famous Bollywood actors and successful entrepreneurs, Muslims in India have achieved everything. India is an island of democracy surrounded by failed states and dictatorial regimes. It is a shame that the media of the western world has largely painted a negative view of a totally legitimate move by the Indian government, and toed the line of a terrorist state. By publishing this article at least some sanity has been restored.
5
Woah ! Surrounded by failed states! Not sure who would qualify as a "failed states" if one takes Pakistan out the equation.
Tell you what, forget Article 370 for a second. If the BJP continues it tactic fomenting of troubles along religious and communal lines, it wont be long before India joins your imagined lost of failed states.
signed
ex Indian :-x
Mistakes have been committed in the past by Indian government, but an undisputed fact remains that Kashmir was and remains the raison d'etre of Pakistan since its creation. Keeping the Kashmir pot boiling gives legitimacy to the its Army since its establishment can always project Kashmir as an Islamic cause and an existential threat. Why else would any sane person, let aside the PM of a nation, issue nuclear threats on what isn't even part of its own territory? Everyone who's championing human rights of Kashmiris should at least recognize that the root cause of all problems is the Pakistani state sponsorship of terrorism. Despite all criticism directed towards India, while some of it is justified, history paints a completely different picture. India has never been the aggressor in any of the 4 wars with Pakistan since 1947-48. Each time it was Pakistan's overt or covert attempt to finish the "unfinished business" of partition. How can one forget Pakistan's genocide of its own Bengali brethren in 1971 and the 10 million refugees pouring into India. What can be a more compelling evidence of European fascism post WW-II than Pakistan's treatment of its own (Muslim) citizens? So while India attempts to turn the page on what has been a dark chapter in its otherwise promising story, Pakistan turns out to be worst spoilsport because it can't reimagine a peaceful South Asia.
4
Extending prosperity of the rest of India to the state of Kashmir is a strong justification for getting rid of laws that held it back. Not sure of necessity to list Pakistan's wrongdoings.
3
Abrogation of article 370 is headed in the right direction. Kashmir desperately needs real economy,education and social infrastructure which it lacks utterly. Its the only place in mainland India whose capital, Srinagar still lacks railway connectivity while India is touted as the largest railway network in the world.
6
If restraining the movement temporarily and house arresting the extremists is human right violation then I would prefer this human right violation any day rather than the violations which were happening in Kashmir for last few decades.
8
Let's accept the author's thesis -- that greater prosperity will follow from India's annexation of Kashmir, and even that the risk of terrorism from the area will be reduced. Good!
Now, let's say that both of these benefits could be expanded if Britain were to re-annex India. How does that sound, Mr. Shringla?
3
@Joel Sanders Except, India did not annex Kashmir. Kashmir is an Indian State.
So, to Amb. Shringla, your argument sounds meaningless.
2
Let Britain first figure out how to get out from ANYWHERE without creating a mess.
1
@Joel Sanders
Yes British gave us voting rights !
What the author conveniently forgot to mention is the utterly undemocratic way in which Article 370 was repealed, without any debate, discussion, and, crucially, sans any inputs from the most important stakeholders, the people of Jammu and Kashmir themselves. Also, since this article did not prevent the Indian state from establishing a draconian law that grants armed forces complete immunity from their actions in Kashmir it is difficult to envisage it preventing the well-meaning state from ushering in "development" in the region. The long and complicated history of Kashmir and the special significance of Article 370 is also very conveniently not touched upon this piece.
@Ambar Haidry What you fail to mention is the utterly undemocratic way in which Article 370 was inserted into the constitution in the first place.
If India is actually building a more prosperous Kashmir then why were the Indian opposition parties not allowed to see the ground realities? Why were they stopped at the Kashmir airport? Is this a democracy?
2
@Sehrish They were stopped at the airport because your country trains terrorists and sends them into Kashmir.
1
Building a more prosperous Kashmir? There is no prosperity unless it be of the soul, the spirit. Only freedom can bring true prosperity to Kashmir. You do understand that word, Mr. Shringla - freedom. Once again, FREEDOM.
3
Your indignation is understandable, but misguided.
Blame Pakistan, who has been sending in terrorists to Kashmir.
If a part of the country is infested by terrorists, the government imposes a curfew to ease the situation.
1
Yes, there is no implications of abrogation of article 370 of Indian Constitution outside Kashmir. Mr Harsha Vardhan is right when he says so. Nothing has changed externally. No change in Line of Control. No change in boundary lines . But the major change that occurred outside is the attitude of Pakistan. No body has seen Pakistan so disappointed, so disturbed and so devilish after the internal changes in Kashmir. Because the pipeline of its terror industry has been blocked. It can tolerate Kashmir in a path of progress and prosperity. God save Pakistan.
9
The unrest and radicalization of Kashmir started in 1989, the year when USA pulled out of Afghanistan and Pakistan was able to push the jihadis that were active in Afghanistan into J&K.
The circumstances are repeating themselves. So, I think India government is being prudent.
The steps taken are to ensure there is no bloodshed.
I think the best part of this article is that India’s envoy to US is responding to Pakistan’s PM. Best to show him his place.
8
Mr. Vardhan has been away from India , perhaps, too long. Indian economy is in tail spin.All major sectors: auto, textile, agriculture, retail, banks are
experiencing trouble. The only boom
occuring is in coal mining and government spending. Due to big
black hole in data from the informal
sector, which employ 80% to 85% workforce, an erroneous assumption
is made that informal sector is growing
at the same rate as the formal organized sector.This inflates real GDP. Unemployment wouldn't be
50 year high if it was true. How can
Kashmir develop if rest of India is
sliding. Go to any market, merchants
are waiting for the customers who are
awol. Kashmiris are not even allowed
to open their shops, day laborers are locked up in their homes, banks are closed,IT companies can't work because
internet has been cut off. Whatever
income people used to earn has
dissipated. Is this development,
Mr. Vardhan you are touting. It
seems pie in the sky to rationalize
the draconian action Modi government
has taken. Truth is very different
from this concocted narrative.
3
@s.khan India's economic growth is currently slowing down; it will pick up again.
Restrictions on Kashmir will ease as the situation eases. It has taken longer because Pakistan does not stop supporting terrorism.
3
Kashmir is going to be prosperous. Good joke Mr. Ambassador. What was preventing India from developing Kashmir thus far? Why is the current government not allowing opposition party leaders to visit Kashmir? How about Amnesty International or Red Cross?
Since August 5, there have been no working phones, no internet, no local newspapers. There are 800,000 soldiers for 7 million civilians, 4000 plus civilians including kids have been put in jails in last 6 weeks including 3 former chief ministers. All educational institutions are closed. I haven’t been able to talk to my sick sister who lives in Kashmir since August 5th.
Let us suck last drop of blood from Kashmiris and then we will resuscitate them and make them prosperous!
For anybody having doubts about how Kashmiris have been treated by India, please google AFSPA and pellet gun injuries.
10
In the disagreements between politicians and countries it is always the innocent that suffer. Kashmiris have seen Indian troops ever since 1947 and I cannot imagine that they have any warm feelings left for India. Because Kashmir had been a Hindu kingdom ,most of the bureaucracy was Hindu. The minority Hindus had to flee in the 80's because of the very hostile majority. Will they welcome Indians now ?
Why has the Indian govt chosen to pour salt on the wounds of Kashmir? There are other huge issues that should concern this govt , the environmental destruction, agricultural issues, poverty , law and order.....
And why is Mr Modi promoting Hindutv?. Can anyone give an example of a theocratic state that has been successful?
Mr Shringla rightly points out blemishes in the "Pure" state of Pakistan . Look at the other dictatorships in the Middle east. We will only prosper as a secular , inclusive country.
5
Well said Mr Rastogi. Since when are Pakistan ,Saudi.A or any other dictatorship/autocratic country been the benchmark by which a secular,democratic India is measured against ? To tell those critical of this govts actions to instead worry about their own track record is disingenuous to say the least .
PM Imran Khan seems similar to Cersei of GOT - ever covetous of Kashmir (Winterfell), never to have it, having taken own countrymen (Pakistanis) through deprivation, poverty, and always harboring terrorism as the ultimate weapon to use.
Similarity may not end there. The same weapon that was meant to be used for personal ambition, ended up killing the monarch.But only after the own countrymen (read Pakistanis) were put through hell.
Can we hear the voice from Pakistan that is different than its dictators, military rulers, and their puppets such as Mr. Khan?
May be we can't because there is no free media in the country.
4
Jingoism at its best - the irony of espousing Rudyard Kipling‘s hubristic paternalism is too much.
4
Interesting that the Indian ambassador from Trump's subcontinent outpost criticizes Pakistan's treatment of minorities and doesn't even bother to respond to the Pakistanis' accusation of how India treats its Muslims and Sikhs. There is no defense, apparently. So telling.
4
@Tom Jessor Neither Sikhs nor Muslims are complaining. Why are you?
@Tom Jessor
There have been three Muslim and one Sikh Presidents of India so far
One Sikh Prime Minister of India, for two terms
The most popular Bollywood actors are all Muslims.
History is littered with examples of larger countries, region or entities that decide to run things into another (and weaker) country, region or entity, while justifying it by enhancing the local standards of living.
This paternalistic approach sometimes worked, but often did not. It can easily breed resentment, which is definitely not conducive to economic development.
Mr. Ambassador, your own country was colonized. Britain also justified it by wanting to bring you, poor people, out of your misery. None of my Indian friends consider this to be a particularly bright spot on Indian history.
So, how is having less autonomy will cause Kashmir to become the new Eldorado of India? Aren't you simply stating that the local population cannot be trusted with autonomy to ensure their own development and that they need the central government, which like Dad knows best, to save them from themselves? Forget Pakistan: are you aware how this looks like for the local folks?
5
Steve:
You are very incisive in your analysis. Thanks for sharing.
The ambassador’s responses are largely focused on Pakistan. While definitely required, I would like to present a few details that have been lacking in any media reports I’ve seen in the West.
The Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir which was accorded special status through article 370 of the Indian constitution is made of 3 distinct regions: Ladakh, Kashmir Valley, and Jammu. Article 370 itself was meant to be “temporary and transitional”. This, the act of scrapping it is long overdue. It doesn’t deprive the Kashmiris of any representation. Rather, it opens it up for economic development that the rest of the country enjoys.
Ladakh which is the largest of the three regions is majority Buddhist and has long pleaded for scrapping Article 370. Those pleas were drowned out by the shrill rhetoric focused only on the Kashmir Valley. Jammu has a majority Hindu population that has also welcomed the news. That leaves only the Kashmir valley. A place that has gone through multiple rounds of ethnic cleansing that has driven out the 170000 or so Hindu Kashmiri Pandit population that has lived there for millennia. The region has endured Pakistan funded terrorism since 1989. Kashmir valley is now thoroughly radicalized and anti India. I’m sure nobody wants this region to become a breeding ground for terrorism. The only chance at redemption is to improve literacy and economic development - exactly what is intended by scrapping Article 370.
8
The India-Pakistan disputes have their roots in British duplicity when retreating in 1947. Despite high education levels, Indian and Pakistani elites keep hostilities alive due to their narrow mindedness and prejudices. In addition, Pakistan’s military will lose its clout if peace were to break out. The rest of the debates between politicians are essentially claptrap.
2
Kashmir did have autonomy for over 70 years. That resulted in majoritarian, misogynistic, closed society. Hindus were ethnically cleansed.
Outsiders were treated more harshly than Trump's farthest right proposals. People who were brought in as sweepers, didnt receive residency after generations.
Women were discriminated in the matters of inheritance. Triple talaq was not banned. Decriminalization of homosexuality was not applied.
All that the critics accuse to be India's intent and worse, was actually carried out. And none of these critics said a word.
We cannot allow that cruel and punishing rule.
Afghanistan, Pakistan and Kashmir are burning in jihadism. They cannot be left fending for themselves.
7
Three points:
1. In India, percent muslim population was 9.8% in the 1951 census and today it is 14.6%. This speaks for itself given the significant decrease in minority population in Pakistan.
2. The myth that religion can be the basis of nationhood was exploded when Bangladesh separated from Pakistan in 1971 after genocide was committed in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh).
3. Pakistan continues to provide sanctuary to Taliban and its leaders even as they continue to kill Afghans and American soldiers. This speaks to Pakistan's commitment to peace and democracy in the region.
16
Classic tactic of distraction. While Modi’s Hindu Nationalists deploy the Indian army to make Kashmir into a prison for its people, just talk about Imran Khan! Who is fooled by the ambassador’s feeble attempt here? The Kashmiri’s were never offered the vote they were promised 70 years ago. And now their state is about to be overrun by the greed of the corrupt business houses of India. And that is what the good ambassador calls ‘prosperity’ in some indefinite future.
4
Give basic human rights to Kashmiris and lift the curfew. Please don't subject fellow humans to such cruelty. It is not about India or Pakistan, but humans who are house arrested for so many days.
3
Thank you Mr. Shringla.
This has been a terrible 2 months for Indian Diaspora. We have had to hear constant barrage coming from Articles in NY Times and Washinton Post claiming that there is a genocide ongoing in Kashmir. Finally we get the picture from the Indian side. Thank you NY Times for finally sharing the Indian voice.
7
@Baiju Raval
Which article in the NYT and Washington Post said there is genocide happening in Kashmir?
The Pakistani Army committed genocide on its own East Wing- which had the majority- forcing it to break away and become Bangladesh. How is it India had good relations with Bangladesh- which supports this move- while Pakistan has poisoned its border with both Afghanistan and India?
China is waking up to the reality that unless Pakistani sponsored psuedo-Islamic fanaticism is curbed, then the 'Belt and Road' will bring terrorism within its borders. Thus China will force Pakistan to behave better in future. Furthermore, Pakistan needs to service its debts to China. Thus it will have to put its own house in order. Till the Chinese get the Pakistanis to behave, India is right to take a tough line.
3
But more prosperous for whom?
3
I am curious. What is India's position on the reality that the Palestinians in Israel are much better off than those outside?
1
It is not only Pakistan who does not tolerate minorities.Every Sunni Moslem nation have done that in the past.Contrast this to Iran which is Shia and minorities there have not been touched but thrive since the ancient times.But of course America needs to cater to the house of Saud so everyone else suffers
4
@george Are you serious? Iran has lost almost all of its Christian and Jewish population.
At long lost the Times decides to hear the other side after having painted the largest democracy as one made of right wing bigots. With a billion plus supporting this move,no amount of India bashing will undo the reality that Kashmir is and will always remain an integral part of India.
6
Ha ha yes, we are doing this for your own good. India is advancing Kashmir just as the British Raj advanced India, through violence and coercion. It never works, and this is now the 21st century.
The fact of the matter is that (like Palestine) the pesky natives want freedom while the colonizers want the land without the natives. The best time to act is when the global order is in disarray, which happens to be now. Good luck!
5
Pakistan's Niazi #1 earlier lost Bangladesh. Pakistan's Niazi #2 now lost Kashmir. What is Nia ('New' in Hindi) is that the epicentre of International Terrorism and the proliferator of nuclear weapons' technology to virulent dictatorships now claims to be the 'epitome' of human virtue, the 'savior' that'll save us all from Armageddon! A fox claiming to be a Guardian Angel for the chickens.
Poor Imran Khan Niazi. With his own Army's gun to his head and their rants in his script, and with his country rapidly descending into a bottomless pit of fanaticism & destitution, INDIA is the last of his worries. Clutching Kashmir cannot save PM Khan - any more than straws can save a drowning man. But that's the only thing left for Khan to clutch before the inevitable Coup de Grace by Pakistan's deep state puts another puppet in place.
As for the 'exterminator of minorities' referring to India & its prime minister with the most undiplomatic terms possible. Well, crude language speaks mostly of one's own upbringing, not of the target. And Khan's rantings are simply a case of the *pit* calling the kettle black...
Indians and Pakistanis are brothers kept in conflict by vested interests in Pakistan's army... who benefit from calibrating conflict between their enslaved state and a provoked neighbour. One day, the peoples of Pakistan will rise up against a regime that sacrifices their lives, their livelihoods & their legacy for the welfare of a few officers. That day does not seem too far...
5
Pakistan seeks to drive a wedge in Indian polity with leaders, media and PM Khan himself demonizing Indian RIght as communal. This politics of secular-communal divide along with demonizing RSS and Sangh Parivaar has been staple diet of Indian Left since Gandhi was assassinated. PM Khan bowling in this block-hole is fair game. So is his bowling Yorker.
Prosperity angle matters, but it is a weak argument. If this argument held sway Vietnam and Afghanistan would have had different history. The primary requirement is to take political polarization from corrosive communal-secular divide to constructive Hindustaniyat-Bharatiyata polarization.
Opposition leader Sharad Pawar has made the first bold move for Hindustaniyat with his Pakistanis are happy in their country line. Freedom movement was fought per Hindustaniyat ethos, but sadly it could not contain Islamiyat and partition became inevitable.
Think, it is with such a change in the internal-polity of India, Liberals in developed world shall begin to trust Indian RIght, and smear campaign on PM Khan be thwarted. More critical, this basic trust within Indian polity shall enable true discernment to win hearts and minds of those Kashmiris who have not been won over yet.
Per rules of this strange game, only Indian leaders are allowed to bat on the pitch where PM Imran bowls. An Ambassador can carry water to players in the field!
1
Quote from an article from a member of the European Parliament, referring to the abrogation of article 370 .
"The removal, temporarily or permanently of these articles should be seen as a global stance against terrorist activities, where today terrorists exploit the principles of democracy, freedom of speech and human rights practiced by the majority, whilst at the same time imposing fear, violence and killings as justification for their causes. "
Full article available at below link -
https://eptoday.com/justification-for-removing-kashmirs-article-370/
3
Pakistan’s claim of mistreatment of Muslims anywhere in the world rings hollow and hypocritical. It is Pakistan who killed millions of its own Muslims in East Pakistan, now Bangladesh. Terror unleashed by Pakistan and its support of terrorist organizations has killed hundreds of thousands Muslims in Afghanistan and Kashmir. Muslims who do not follow Sunni branch of Islam are harassed and some are killed.
So what right Pakistan has to speak about Muslims and their treatment in other countries? Pakistan has forfeited this right several decades ago
3
It will be very difficult, if not impossible to get a neutral point of view from the readers of south Asian origin; Muslims will sing Pakistani narrates; Indians [both Muslims and others] will sing Indian narratives. I am not her to deny Indian Army's heavy handed tactics of the Kashmirs; however it is Pakistan who started the problem by its attempt to illegally invade Kashmir. I must say with the loudest of my voice that "if Indian's are bad; Pakistanis are no better". I have seen Pakistan army in my my lifetime in then east Pakistan:they killed our people; they burnt our houses; they raped our women in the name of Islam. BTW, I am not a pro Indian secular person; I am a practicing Muslim; so it will be better for someone disagreeing with me giving me religious [Islamic] knowledge.
3
Orwellian. Next he'll be citing the happy, smiling Uighurs of Xinjiang as a template.
3
A false and bais analysis of the Kashmir solution. Unfortunately when it comes to killings of Muslims.
Issue is Kashmir, and status was undone by Mr. Modi not Mr. Khan, therefore trouble maker is Modi not Khan. Modi can take his country back to stone ages, Throughot history India has been ruled bu the outsiders. Inhumane treatment of lowercast people and minorities resulted in people accepting outsiders as their messiah's. Mr Modi a hatemonger and butcher of Gujrat responsible for killing 3000 innocents. Thanks to General Musharraf of Pakistan, he was blocked to enter USA and most European nations before he became the prime minister.
Majority of Indians hate his economical policies. Kashmir is a disputed territory and Kashmiris has the right to self determination. India has failed to suppress them in 72 years and will eventually result in Kashmir to break away and join Pakistan. Pakistan might have a weak economy but when it comes to war with India nation is united and put India at back foot in case of War. Kashmir will breakaway, then Khalistan followed by Assam, can India afford this........ I don't think so. Human rights of Kashmiris should be respected. After 800 years of foreign ruler in last 72 years India is again on a brink of break up. Let peace prevail and if there is war it's India's on darn fault.
5
I think this article in the TImes says it all-
Gulalai Ismail, Feminist Hunted by Pakistan’s Authorities, Escapes to U.S.
1
The appalling "whataboutery" in this article really puts into question the credentials of the esteemed diplomat H.E. Mr. Harsh. What one expected was a roadmap on how Kashmir would see the progress or development that India wishes to bring upon its only muslim majority state. This is obviously a ruse, a 20th century annexation tactic brought to the fore. If winning the people of the valley was ever a priority , the region would never have been militarized as heavily as it was and is. Autonomy would have remained been the tool used to build a larger base of nationalists and loyalists, but the design is much more sinister this time around. It is territory and land that India is after, not the people. Muslim riddance is in the DNA of the RSS/BJP fascism , as we've seen in Assam. That is precisely what Article 370 was preventing Modi led India from doing. The clutches are free now, and as Modi's deputy Amit Shah has said: it is the final solution.
5
"India’s actions regarding Article 370 have no implications outside of India." A move that disrupted the relationship between two nuclear powers has already had implications outside of India. The dueling letters to the NYT are proof of that. It might not be a violation of international law or a treaty, but you can't pretend that what is happening in Kashmir is purely an internal matter as much as you might want to.
44
@Pete Mitchell - this is same thing as other countries claiming that electing Trump has conequences for rest of the world. It does but that does not mean US should elect a president that rest of the world likes. Same way India needs to do what she likes within its borders and what rest of the world thinks does not matter.
34
@sk Pete, the issue has nothing to do with Pakistan.
Pakistan, the country that hid bin Laden, prosecuted the doctor who disclosed his whereabouts to the CIA, funded the terrorists who committed the Mumbai terrorist attacks, and who have backed Kashmiri terrorists (please, look this up) are not good faith actors whose opinions matters.
Imran Khan knows that his economy is doing poorly, and because he has nothing else to point to, is using India as a mechanism to prop up his presidency. Pakistan is preoccupied with the downfall of India; India, on the other hand, is preoccupied with its own betterment. That's why India does not rile up the issue in Balochistan in the same way that Pakistan does with Kashmir.
8
@Pete Mitchell - Do you about India? we have 29 states like Kashmir none have any problem and we all live together since our independence including Muslims (more than Pakistan) in peace & harmony with various diversities in terms of language, religion, traditions, caste, culture. Have you seen any such problem from any of our 29 states ever?
Kashmir situation kept special only because Pakistan wants this as its own territory and indulged in proxy war with india by sending terrorists or provoking Kashmiries (Muslims) against india in the name of Jehad like all muslims all in ill treated in India which is false from real. i would suggest to read more about india's secular nature and democratic system to change your opinion . God bless you!!
3
People would generally prefer to be ruled by their own than by an outside. This holds true even when a regime is unjust.
2
Mr. Ambassador, what stopped Indian Government, current and past, from making Kashmir prosperous in the last 70+ years ? Kashmir can be made prosperous only if a legal provision should be revoked without following due course of law and using backdoor entries ?
So, wudnt that set precedent for Kashmiris too to break their "relation" with India ?
3
@Sam Swaminathan
What stopped making Kashmir prosperous? The same Article 370, that prohibited non-Kashmiris from owning property in Kashmir. Why would an industry, or any company, ever open an office in Kashmir if they couldnt own their properties, or profit from it? Why would teachers and other professionals ever move to Kashmir to teach, if they could never buy homes there? Read about the menial workers, who were brought in as sweepers, plumbers etc who are essential, but can never be citizens of Kashmir even though they support critical functions. What incentive was there for anyone to invest in Kashmir?
Removal of Article 370 actually opens the door to more investment, more opportunities. Look up the plans by the Maharashtra Tourism Development Corp to build resorts and environment friendly accommodations to help revive the stagnant tourism industry, the biggest revenue earner for Kashmiris - all because they can now actually own their resorts.
3
Pakistan's Niazi #1 earlier lost Bangladesh. Pakistan's Niazi #2 now lost Kashmir. What is Nia ('New' in Hindi) is that the epicentre of International Terrorism and the proliferator of nuclear weapons' technology to virulent dictatorships now claims to be the 'epitome' of human virtue, the 'savior' that'll save us all from Armageddon! A fox claiming to be a Guardian Angel for the chickens.
Poor Imran Khan Niazi. With his own Army's gun to his head and their rants in his script, and with his country rapidly descending into a bottomless pit of fanaticism & destitution, INDIA is the last of his worries. Clutching Kashmir cannot save PM Khan - any more than straws can save a drowning man. But that's the only thing left for Khan to clutch before the inevitable Coup de Grace by Pakistan's deep state puts another puppet in place.
As for the 'exterminator of minorities' referring to India & its prime minister with the most undiplomatic terms possible. Well, crude language speaks mostly of one's own upbringing, not of the target. And Khan's rantings are simply a case of the *pit* calling the kettle black...
Indians and Pakistanis are brothers kept in conflict by vested interests in Pakistan's army... who benefit from calibrating conflict between their enslaved state and a provoked neighbour. One day, the peoples of Pakistan will rise up against a regime that sacrifices their lives, their livelihoods & their legacy for the welfare of a few officers. That day does not seem too far.
2
Very happy to see New York Times present an opinion that runs counter to the world view it promotes. Muslims are not just victims. They have actively worked to destroy the fabric of the countries where they dominate. Karachi and Lahore were once Hindu majority cities where now minorities can hardly be found. When Pakistan started promoting the Kashmir insurgency, one of the first victims were the Kashmiri pundits who were driven out in a bout of ethnic cleansing. Kashmir is a multiracial, multireligious, multilingual land where Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Sikh all have history and a claim. Pakistan has shown no history of managing a land that has more than one religion, more than one race and more than one language without indulging in cultural elimination and ethnic cleansing. The Pakistani state is in tatters with a moribund economy and the media and state captured by the Sunni Punjabi military. The few minorities that remain are persecuted with unfair laws and institutionalized discrimination. India has finally shown some resolve to counter the narrative of hate promoted by Pakistan. New York Times should stand with the democracies and promote human rights instead of a fake narrative which seeks to redraw national borders through a manufactured sense of injustice which is without reality.
4
@Rahul
"New York Times should stand with the democracies and promote human rights ..." It did, by putting the picture at the top of the Ambassador's opinion piece.
I am from Laddak and we welcome this step taken by Indian government. Because of Kashmir we people were suffering since long. whole world focus on kashmir but no one cares about Laddak. This is the bravest step taken so far on J&K and will be very effective to fight terrorism, enhance development in this region.
7
I do not know why the Indian ambassador had to write this article. India is a secular democracy and a free country. What India does internally for its states is an internal matter? It does not need to defend its policies against the accusations of a neighboring failed state that is the epicenter of global terrorism. Revocation of article 370 has been widely shrugged off by the international community and rightfully so. India should move on.
5
@Sam
Oppression and subjugation are never anyone's internal matters. Forcibly occupying a land and keeping its people pegged is not any nation's internal matter. We all must oppose such things. Kashmiri people don't want to be a part of India. India should let them go.
@ICitizen India did not forcibly occupy Kashmir.
Kashmir is an Indian state.
The "development" rhetoric falls apart when you consider the reality that economic progress in J&K, along the lines indicated by Mr. Shringla, had surpassed that in Gujarat. This right-wing, anti-democracy government - and its emissaries - are doing a huge disservice to the democratic fabric of India by peddling these lies. India does not need any help from Mr. Imran Khan to run its economy into the ground: it's doing that on its own. Or have you not kept abreast of youth unemployment rates (the worst in 45 years), the devaluation of the stock market, and massive ongoing and planned layoffs which are ripping apart the lives of millions?
2
An Ambassador is expected to build bridges, diplomacy has got to be the ever lasting option to avoid escalation of tensions. While Pakistan has been immature and irresponsible, there is no need to be defensive and reciprocal in Indian response.
In soccer-speak, after all Swami Vivekananda exhorted young Indians to forget Yoga and play football! Indian diplomatic response has to be not defensive tackle but score goals. Goals of India in the Pakistan context are deter terror, next change the perception about India in Pakistan by extending reach of enormous soft-power of India.
Extending the reach of Indian soft-power to people in Pakistan requires a diplomacy of different kind. Diplomacy is about being a listening messenger. It is about being not controversial, it is about not crossing the political line and keep all channels open for discussions and negotiations.
India think tank must have deliberated and with some consternation chosen to take an attacking personal play on Pakistan PM. Such an approach is not dignified, and is counterproductive. Indian stance has to be mature and open to talks, even though the talks are years away.
A forward never attacks defenders, he is set on scoring goals; too busy in lookout for scoring opportunities. Indian diplomacy has to be about such forward play and leave the defending, including the info-components to security establishment.
5
Orwellian.
If Kashmir issue was just one of a political territorial issue, it'd have been solved a long time ago.
The local political power interests and Pakistan made it a religious issue - to be specific one where the Muslim majority Kashmir valley isn't willing to live under India, perceived as a Hindu state.
Here are some of the verifiable facts:
- Muslim majority Kashmir Valley is only about 7% of the entire area of the state
- The Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs do not want to be part of Pakistan and at this point they prefer India (public opinion polls)
- Kashmir Valley's Muslim population went from 68% in 1961 (first census after partition) to 97% today through direct threat of violence or coercion
- India has 180 million Muslims living with Hindus
- Representing about 1% of total population, Kashmir receives about 10% of federal tax dollars
- Gilgit-Baltistan (Pakistan occupied Kashmir) has seen majority Shia population decline with Pakistan resettling Sunnis from elsewhere. Sunnis are generally more sympathetic toward Pakistan
4
Thanks to NYT Editorial board for publishing this long due opinion from the other side that explains well the logic behind deactivation of Article 370. India is a country where the second-largest Muslim population of the world resides. India enjoyed Presidents and other major political, military, business, academic, etc. positions coming from the Muslim community. Even as of today, the Father of Pakistan, Mohammad Ali Jinnah's the only grandson Nusali Wadia continued to be a successful Indian businessman.
NYT and alike media rightly express concerns about minorities and human rights in the US and elsewhere. However, unfortunately, in the case of Kashmir, intellectuals and media experts for past 30 years since 1989, continuously ignored the plight of minority Kashmiri Hindus refugees (commonly called as Kashmiri Pandits) and the brutal violence they faced. Jammu and Kashmir, became a terrorist occupied State when it lost its minority population in 1989. There was no discussion in the media about the lower caste Hindu population of Kashmir who unlike the rest of the country, is still lacking opportunities to develop due to lack of equity and the suppressed human rights. There was a continuous portrayal of a false narrative that the majority of Kashmir getting oppressed. There is a need for an ethical stand by the media. I hope this article will prove the beginning of such an ethical stand that will help a dialogue to attain peace and to denounce terrorism.
5
Thanks to NYT Editorial board for publishing this long due opinion from the other side that explains well the logic behind deactivation of Article 370. India is a country where the second-largest Muslim population of the world resides. India enjoyed Presidents and other major political, military, business, academic, etc. positions coming from the Muslim community. Even as of today, the Father of Pakistan, Mohammad Ali Jinnah's the only grandson Nusali Wadia continued to be a successful Indian businessman.
NYT and alike media rightly express concerns about minorities and human rights in the US and elsewhere. However, unfortunately, in the case of Kashmir, intellectuals and media experts for past 30 years since 1989, continuously ignored the plight of minority Kashmiri Hindus refugees (commonly called as Kashmiri Pandits) and the brutal violence they faced. Jammu and Kashmir, became a terrorist occupied State when it lost its minority population in 1989. There was no discussion in the media about the lower caste Hindu population of Kashmir who unlike the rest of the country, is still lacking opportunities to develop due to lack of equity and the suppressed human rights. There was a continuous portrayal of a false narrative that the majority of Kashmir getting oppressed. There is a need for an ethical stand by the media. I hope this article will prove the beginning of such an ethical stand that will help a dialogue to attain peace and to denounce terrorism.
2
As an Indian I am ashamed of my government. The issue Mr. Shringla does not understand is that Indian government is committing human rights atrocities in Kashmir. It has nothing to do with economic "benefits" for the people of Kashmir.
If India holds a plebiscite in Kashmir today, it will lose that vote. Indian government has kept Kashmiris in a virtual open-air prison for most of the past 72 years. I agree with prime minister of Pakistan when he says India is violating the rights of Kashmiri people.
When Mr. Shringla talks about the economic "progress" of Kashmir it sounds insulting to Kashmiris. Think about it: Would you want to live under military occupation of a brutal army if the pay is good and you're promised that you will earn a "lot" of money?
10
@KM
What Pakistan is offering for Kashmir ?
More Misery , Misery in India , more misery in Pakistan.
May be the truth is Kashmir should become independent state , but we all know how Pakistan reacted to Bangladesh independence.
Sincerity in India and Pakistan towards Kashmir is being mercy of Slave master at best.
1
This is a great summary of the rationale behind the revocation of article 370 in the J&K region of India. Thank you Ambassador Shringla for taking the time to write this in to The NY Times.
176
@Krishnan Narayan Was detaining a whole populace of (apparently) 8 million Indian citizens also part of the rationale for a more 'economically prosperous' J&K? India isn't fooling anyone - it wants Kashmir without the Kashmiri's.
7
@Krishnan Narayan
A very well written post, Pakistan should focus on their atrocities and let India deal with its internal problems.
More civilians and terrorists have died in Pakistan than in Kashmir. It is a blatant attempt to redirect the attention from a flailing economy, where milk is costlier than Petrol. Where, it is insecure for people of any faith (including Islam) if they do not confirm to the radical sect of Wahhabism. If you are a Shia, Ahmadia, Deobandi, Sikh, Christian, Hindu or any faith, you never know if you will return home when you leave for work.
10
@Krishnan Narayan
The only problem with this is that it doesn’t mention current condition of millions of Kashmiris. Bashing Pakistan doesn’t help me. I haven’t talked to my sick sister in over 6 weeks because the phones are down. I wish the Ambassador had also mentioned use of pellet guns and arrest of thousands of civilians by AFSPA protected soldiers.
8
According to this person’s logic, India should go back to be a British colony.
3
Absolutely brilliant and brutally honest op-ed.
Nice to see an Indian official actually showing some much-needed backbone against the relentlessly, depressingly one-sided, anti-India, anti-Modi narrative of the NYT.
Hope this is a sign of things to come.
7
Thanks to NYT Editorial board for publishing this long due opinion from the other side that explains well the logic behind deactivation of Article 370. India is a country where the second-largest Muslim population of the world resides. India enjoyed Presidents and other major political, military, business, academic, etc. positions coming from the Muslim community. Even as of today, the Father of Pakistan, Mohammad Ali Jinnah's the only grandson Nusali Wadia continued to be a successful Indian businessman.
NYT and alike media rightly express concerns about minorities and human rights in the US and elsewhere. However, unfortunately, in the case of Kashmir, intellectuals and media experts for past 30 years since 1989, continuously ignored the plight of minority Kashmiri Hindus refugees (commonly called as Kashmiri Pandits) and the brutal violence they faced. Jammu and Kashmir, became a terrorist occupied State when it lost its minority population in 1989. There was no discussion in the media about the lower caste Hindu population of Kashmir who unlike the rest of the country, is still lacking opportunities to develop due to lack of equity and the suppressed human rights. There was a continuous portrayal of a false narrative that the majority of Kashmir getting oppressed. There is a need for an ethical stand by the media. I hope this article will prove the beginning of such an ethical stand that will help a dialogue to attain peace and to denounce terrorism.
7
India is building a more prosperous Kashmir? Such empty rhetoric will have a semblance of truth if only India cared about the territories it manages already. The indian government has mismanaged its economy, growth is coming to a grind, health indices are doing poorly, malnutrition (nearly half of our children), the Indian capital is a tandoori kitchen of pollutants on steroids, communalism is on the rise, vigilantism is on the rise ...
And in the middle of all this, Indians want to build a more prosperous Kashmir? What a joke. This is a land grab, done against the wishes of the people of the land.
The only word the Indian government needs to know - Karma.
2
Hindu Nationalism is not going to fly peacefully in Kashmir and the US should not support India practicing it.
Americans know just about nothing about the state of mind of all the various people in India, and on the other hand they are given to swallowing any bull that comes across the front page of this paper. Then they entrench themselves within what little they know especially if their favorite cable news plays the same limited out of tune melody.
We had this happen with the Russia election interference hoax; it's backstory of the Steele report and FISA warrants has been completely demonstrated to be junk. The so-called interference has been shown to be below trivial, the conclusions of the ODNI report and the Mueller investigation are like sieves. The Russians did not effect the election or even try. The whole hoax was a soft coup attempt by Neoliberals and the intelligence community.
Yet the insistent misrepresentations by this paper along with a coordinated clamor out of entities like MSNBC has fixed in much of the public mind a completely false narrative that most people do not have the energy to overcome via research even though that research has been done by good journalists.* Don't repeat this with India!
*See Matt Taibi, Michael Tracey, Glenn Greenwald, Noam Chomsky, Aaron Mate', Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Victor David Hanson, &/or Chris Hedges on Youtube for expert intellectual debunking of the totality of the Russia election hoax/mess/confabulation.
3
One of the greatest thing about the US is that we have the means to sort out propaganda from facts. So Mr. Ambassador, we will be watching for a prosperous democratic Kashmir.
3
The only alternative Kashmir should be independent nation.
I believe Pakistan will be opposed that idea more than India.
1
@su Pakistan will invade Kashmir. Unable to defend itself, Kashmir will seek Indian help. India will say we will send in our troops if you accede to India. Kashmir will agree, and duly accede to India. Pakistan will then start sending in terrorists.
If you don't believe me, this is exactly what happened.
So our ambassador is ok with the Indian government just waiving a constitutional provision? Sounds par for the course from this administration
1
A constitutional provision that was included as temporary. Yes - there is a section for temporary provisions in the Indian Constitution.
A Constitution can be amended, as was done in the case of this Article 370.
Also, Article 1 of the Indian Constitution lists Jammu & Kashmir as an integral state in the Union of India.
Whatever can be said about Article 370, it did NOT supersede Article 1.
Just FYI - since you chose to comment on the Indian Constitution.
1
This isn't about "prosperity", it's about rounding up intellectuals and other leaders of certain ethnicity without charge, usually in the dark.
It's not just happening in Kashmir either. The world has seen this before. It starts like this in Iraqi Kurdistan, and Bosnia, and Armenia...and it ends in unspeakable evil.
2
Mr. Ambassador, I'd like to take all of your civil right away. You will end up being more prosperous. How much are your civil rights worth?
5
Most of the comments in NYT and other newspapers after India's recent action to reorganize its J&K region were highly misleading. Pakistan's actions in sponsoring terrorism, that was the root cause of unrest in Kashmir, were not given sufficient attention. Ambassador Shringla is correct that Pakistan had a vested interest in keeping Kashmir economically backward. When young people have no jobs, it was easy for them to be recruited as mujahids. I am not a great supporter of Mr. Modi for other reasons, but on this one he has done the right thing. It is not only in the interest of Kashmiris, it reduces Pakistan's ability to spread terrorrism, thereby ensuring more peace and prosperity in the region.
1
It is laughable that Pakistan is arguing for human rights and freedom of people of Kashmir when none so exist in Pakistan. Kashmir cannot be separated from India without the consent of the people of India and we will treat our brothers in Kashmir as any other people of India without any regard of their religion or ethnicity. If Pakistan thinks that it can create problem in Kashmir through terrorist, it is going to work. Let's work together to create an atmosphere to bring peace and prosperity to our people.
9
This will be a good thing for Kashmir people. Pakistan better fix itself before thinking about others. Sadly however, history shows that they rather drag their neighbor to ground than lift themselves to neighbor's level.
9
Blame Britain. After WW2 they (rightly) got out of a lot of places, but (wrongly) left fuzzy borders in their wake. The Iraq war? Caused by a fuzzy border between Kuwait and Iraq that the British left. The problems in Israel/Palestine? Same. Kashmir/Pakistan/India - same, same. When they left Hong Kong they did a bit better -- but still there are problems.
2
Yet another conflict on the world stage where differences in religion are used to separate people and pit them against one another. All for the purpose of consolidating "power" over others.
When will we ever learn that differences in religion, gender (and sexual orientation), skin color, language, hair color, height, weight, eye color, left-handed, right-handed, etc. mean nothing when we can see each other as equal human beings; that the imposition of our will on others is no part of the way to peace and happiness. We must celebrate our differences - not condemn them - if we are to survive as a species.
3
Finally an article on Kashmir published by the NY Times that provides us with the reality of the situation at the ground level! Mr. Shringla has done a great service to the international community by writing about the historical background and current problems in Kashmir with regard to India's neighbor Pakistan. Thank you!
8
It is absolutely indefensible that your government has turned Kashmir into an open air prison by stationing 1 million troops there and cutting off all communications. For 45 days now I have no news of my friends, only rumors of midnight raids where children as young as thirteen are forcibly ripped from their homes and tortured. In one village it is said that their screams are broadcast on loudspeakers to install fear in the population. Your article does not state why Kashmir's status was revoked without any consultation with Kashmiris? Why is the 84 year old former Chief Minister jailed as a threat to public safety? Why has your government arbitrarily arrested all political leaders? Why are you refusing access to independent media outlets? Its a huge irony that you talk about right to information and women's right and juvenile rights when your government itself is the biggest violated of those rights under the Armed Forces Special Powers Act which shields the Indian army from any legal prosecution for tis actions.
9
It is high time the Indian Ambassador corrected the propaganda being pursued by Pakistan and counter some of the rhetoric and narrative being peddled by it.
10
No, Mr Ambassador, you are not building a prosperous Kashmir. What you are doing is muzzling people’s voice and committing a blatant violation of human rights. I say this with sadness because I have had lot of respect for India’s commitment to democracy in the past. Sadly those democratic principles and the institutions that uphold them have been under attack ever since Modi came to power. With this latest step, he has brought India brazenly close to fascism. There is no difference between what China is doing in Xinjiang and Modi’s police state tactics in Kashmir. Time the World woke up to the threat posed by Modi’s fascist policies.
11
So Mr. Ambassador:
Is it also in India's constitution that civil and political leaders in Kashmir can be rounded up and detained without cause? (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/world/asia/kashmir-arrests-india.html)
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@gene99
Yes, Public Safety Act (PSA) was enacted by Farooq Abdullah when he was Chief Minister of Kashmir. He and others have been detained under this law.
It appears that he was for it before he was against it?
19
@gene99 The Preventive Detention Act was passed by the Jammu & Kashmir Legislature when Sheikh Abdullah was the Chief Minister. This is a Kashmiri law, not an Indian law. Due to Pakistan's relentless hostility, mainstream politicians are at extreme risk of assassination. They may want to be near their people and have the courage to do so. But, the Governor is correct to ensure their safety till the Pakistani threat is contained.
8
Public safety act is not a constitutional provision. It’s an act
4
Just like the Arab-Israeli conflicts, the India Pakistani conflicts can go all the way back to partition after World War II. And just like the Arab-Israeli conflicts there are no amount of facts and grievances that each side can bring to the table that is going to influence the other side and just confuse outside observers. And just like the Israeli Palestinian conflicts, outside people who are well-intentioned (frequently not well intentioned) use it to justify their own ideological views of; current global power, colonial past, racial and religious conflicts. The only way out of these issues is to negotiate on current situation and conditions. Relitigating past grievances is just going down a rabbit hole.
4
It is Pakistan who KILLED AND OUSTED Hindus out of Pakistan when it was created. It is Pakistan who ATTACKED INDIA 3 TIMES. It is Pakistan who is HARBORING AND PROTECTING UN designated TERRORISTS on its soil. Kashmir has been part of India since its formation. Article 370 was passed and dissolved by India to bring Kashmiris at par with the rest of the nation. 90% People criticizing Article 370 don't know what it is - it was discriminating against the rest of Indians and not helping Kashmiris either, as it blocked outside investment.
12
@Ghanshyam Matreja
Kashmiris want human rights not outside investment Mr. Matreja. We would rather eat one meal a day and not have our kids blinded by pellet guns.
8
@Proud Kashmiri Texan Then don't throw stones and bombs at security forces.
@Proud Kashmiri Texan Maybe you should have applied those same wants and desires to the millions of Kashmiri Pundits you drove out of their homeland under the threat of death. We might have shown some sympathy for your position then.
It's such a brilliant new morning for Kashmiris that you still have the place locked down.
Next you'll tell use being stateless and likely to be pushed into Bangladesh is also doing exactly what those people want and need. I mean, why hasn't any other Indian government acceded to this overwhelming demand to be made stateless and thus ripe for expulsion?
Where was India when Kashmir begged to be made into a largescale Gaza? Why couldn't anyone but Modi just give these people what they wanted?
1
@Doug Tarnopol
You are spot on.
Responding to criticism that minorities are being mistreated in Kashmir (or other parts of India) by comparing it the treatment of minorities in Pakistan doesn’t make it any less deplorable in India. It remains a fact that minorities feel significantly more insecure in India today as compared with ten years ago. The blackout in Kashmir and the muted response of the international community only adds to the fear and trepidation felt by minorities throughout India.
7
@VN Did you go and talk to the minorities to feel their fear and trepidation? Minorities are as free as they are in hte US outside of few unfortunate events that seems to happen anywhere in the world. Look at the population growth of either muslims or christians in India - that doesn't seem to be a sign of a community that is under the gun.
This is smooth-talking PR for a extremist Indian government driven by Hindu nationalism and hatred of Muslims, and flouting not only India's own constitution but international treaties as well.
Readers should take a look at this illuminating report in the NY Times recently about the larger picture here: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/world/asia/india-muslims-narendra-modi.html.
12
India is not fooling anyone. The Indian induced humanitarian disaster in Kashmir will forever tarnish India’s reputation.
11
Kashmir has about 10 million Muslims, out of a total of about 200 million Muslims in India. The remaining 190 million Muslims are not complaining about living in India, with a majority Hindu population, under the regime of the so-called Hindu-nationalist party. They are not asking for going to Pakistan. What is India going to do to the 10 million Muslims in Kashmir that it isn’t doing to the other 190 million Muslims in the rest of India?
This Muslim card is a bogeyman, designed to excite people with little knowledge or understanding of the situation.
30
@Dick are you sure they are not complaining about living in India? they may have no desire to go to Pakistan, but that doesn't mean they are happy under the BJP. There have been numerous protests against the lynchings of innocent Muslims, Where do you get your news?
India Is Building a More Prosperous Kashmir by killing a bunch of them. And not letting democracy get in their way. The fewer and more suppressed the Kashmiris are, the better the whole economics of it all. That makes so much sense. Just brilliant. Thank you Mr. Shringla.
8
An entire country has suffered long enough being held hostage to the whims and fancies of the Kashmiris and their grand delusions of secession. Indians are tired of having spent so much political, social and economic capital on this issue. Something had to be done and now it’s done, it is now prepared to face the consequences for better or for worse.
15
Pakistan has lost international credibility. Like a cat with nine lives, the final act is with China, that may not end well. China needs Pakistan to prevent flareups in Xinjiang and also to needle India.
13
For those who frequently ask about plebiscite. Let us go through history of why the plebiscite was not held. This was because after Pakistan was created, The kingdom of Jammu and Kashmir had to decide upon being a part of India or Pakistan OR to remain an independent country. As the king of Jammu and Kashmir was mulling on his options, Pakistan decided it can no longer wait for the kings to decide. They wanted to usurp the entire region of Jammu and Kashmir (including Ladalkh). Pakistan invaded Kashmir and capture a large part of Kashmir. This forced the kings hand and he asked for India to help him. The king decided that Kashmir will join India on the understanding that India will help him resist Pakistan. India send its army to defend the rest of Kashmir that Pakistan had not captured.
India took the matter to the UNO, as it was Pakistan that had invaded Kashmir. A cease fire was declared. The UN resolution asked Pakistan to vacate the area occupied by it (as it was the aggressor).It did not ask India to vacate any part of Kashmir as India only responded to Pakistan aggression after the King of Kashmir had agreed to a union with India. The resolution called for a plebiscite once Pakistan met the pre conditions set by the UNO, viz. vacate areas occupied by it.
Pakistan refused to vacate area occupied by it. As the precondition set by UN was not met by Pakistan, the plebiscite was never held.
18
If the the plebiscite been held in 1947. Kashmiris would have decided hands down to form a union with India. This conclusion can be drawn due to two reasons. 1) Hindu and Buddhists would have voted to join India. 2) Sheik Abdullah was very popular among all Kashmiris. He was very popular among Muslims. Moreover Muslim Shia population favored union with India. So most Muslims too would have voted for a union with India. Pakistan knowing this fact did not want the plebiscite to be held. So they never vacated the land they had occupied. As a result the plebiscite was not held.
Meanwhile in the intervening years. Pakistan started to infiltrate terrorists to cause violent attacks in Kashmir. They sent radical Wahabi Muslims to instigate and provoke local muslims against India. They killed Kashmiri pandits and Sikhs and forced them to leave Kashmir valley. So the demography of Kashmir valley changed and the local people have become heavily radicalized.
So why should Plebiscite be held now that the demography has changed due to action of Pakistan? The result would have definitely been India’s favor if the plebiscite had been held at the correct time. Moreover Pakistan got rid of the minorities in the part of Kashmir occupied by it. They also got rid of the special status given to part of Kashmir occupied by it. And I am sure Pakistani will not vacate the areas occupied by it .So Pakistan has to quit whining and look in the mirror.
11
@Suresh
This is the best comment. Sad, many don't know the nature of Pakistan and gameplan. Pak bought time to implement it's ideas. Meanwhile it successfully radicalised Kashmiris.
India won't follow UNSC and Plebiscite argument because it didn't happen when it was supposed to happen.
Nehru promised it then. The same promise can't live for eternity,as the underlying conditions have changed .
I am not ignoring the problems Pakistan has created, and its tolerance of terrorism, but I never heard of having a state of siege and curfew necessary to build "a more prosperous state", nor of imposing it through military means.
They may or may not have had progressive legislation regarding inheritance, or other issues, but that should be for the Kashmiris to decide and change , not for India to impose militarily.
Kashmir was promised and had its own constitution and laws, and no one has asked them if they want to be part of India.
This is just a populist leader's military grab, and to paint it as some benevolent and altruistic event is fake news.
3
@Michael Did Lincoln ask what the southern states wanted?
@Michael
Article 370 - which gave Kashmir the right to have its own constitution and flag - was supposed to be a temporary addition to the India constitution, and was added by Presidential Order. It was supposed to be abrogated by the Kashmir Constituent Assembly, to decide which articles of the Indian constitution would be followed and then to abrogate A370. However the assembly was dissolved without the abrogation, leading to a temporary article lasting longer than ever intended. Kashmir was never promised its own constitution or its own laws. The Instrument of Accession (by which Kashmir joined India) was the same for every province that became part of India, and never intended for any province to have their own laws.
For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_370_of_the_Constitution_of_India
@Michael, Curfew and communication Blackout imposed in Kashmir Only to Prevent terrorattacks inspired by Pakistani terroroutfits across the border. The handlers in Pakistan are eagerly waiting to cause chaos in Kashmir.
Thank you Mr Shringla, and thank you to the Times Opinion Editors for finally providing us with a rational and comprehensive argument on Kashmir from an Indian perspective. It was much needed.
I hope that the development-based approach to turning around the current mess in Kashmir that the Ambassador outlines is a huge success. And I hope that in time, Kashmiris will enjoy progress and prosperity and most of all, freedom and human rights. In a strange way all of these conditions are somewhat interrelated.
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@ANNI
But will they be a majority in their own land any more?
@ANNI I'm sorry, but anytime a government takes the rights away of some, it's wrong. Why no internet or cell service? Why Marshall Law? I won't claim to know the inner workings of India and Pakistan, but I do know human rights violations when I see them.
7
@Sue Salvesen
Martial law. "Marshall Law" is a person.
Nevertheless, you are absolutely right.
"They make a desolation and call it peace."
59
@SParker Very dramatic. Whatever was tried for the past 70 years didn't work. Time for some tough love. Those who don't want to be part of India can leave and go to wherever they want to.
10
@Venkat, so India can have Kashmir without those inconvenient Kashmiris? Could you not as well argue that those who want to be an integral part of India can leave and go there??
4
@Dave Rubin Kashmir Valley where the majority Muslims are threatened into separatist movement by terrorists represents just 7% of the state by area. So you can see who should move where.
6
How do the Kashmiri feel. How would they vote, if they were allowed to.
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@David Lindsay Jr. How does that matter? Kashmir is part of India and should be treated like any other state. Your question is analogous to me asking how the citizens of California feel about being part of the U.S. under Trump and whether they would vote to secede. Do you think such a vote should be allowed? What is the majority of Californians voted yes?
24
@PK Until their special status was recently, and without their consent revoked, Kashmir wasn't "just a part of India," a state like California is to the US. The more fitting analogy would be Navaho Nation (or other tribal territory) to US. But even that analogy does not capture the spirit of the autonomous relationship Kashmir was/had with India. Perhaps Hong Kong:China is more apt? And like Hong Kong, if the Kashmiris had a chance, they would massively protest. India knows this; hence a complete military state lockdown and internet/phone blackout with out free movement, free communication.
5
@David Lindsay Jr.
The Kashmiris do have the right to vote, and did vote, in the recently concluded elections in India, in the first half of 2019. And 46% of the votes went to the BJP, the party that is in power in India. They essentially voted in favor of the current Indian Prime minister. The election results are public and easily available - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Indian_general_election_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir
6
They got a Temple to sell you like any other annexation Crimea, Austria, Czechoslovakia its all got a good reason for doing so. India has always refused outside mediation. Perhaps the Kashmirian's would welcome independence as a sovereign nation maintaining good relationships with both Pakistan and India never know till there is a free UN observed referendum.
The good news finally a world hot spot with no American interest we have no dog in this fight. Pakistan is no ally nor is India both are divided and likely to remain so. Two nations with over blown Nationalism and a shortage of flush toilets.
7
@James mCowan
It is interesting that you criticize two nations which are in the state they are in because of colonialism.The last thing India wants is another foreign entity meddling in its business even if it's the UN. If anything Pakistan should want the same. The reality of a situation is much more complicated than you realize and comparing them to other disputes in the world is not fair.
16
@Chinmay Only people wo do not want the Kashmiris to have their own voice keep calling it complicated. its prety simple, Nehru and Gandhi saw it that way, and promised the world a solution. That was not implemented,and it should be.
1
@James mCowan nice sentiment but would you feel the same way about Texas independence when the US annexed it? Texas is now so much better off as part of the USA - but I’m sure some may disagree still.
6
"India Is Building a More Prosperous Kashmir", by turning the whole state into a prison, denying the Kashmiris their fundamental human rights , and torturing and killing as many Kashmiris as the Indian occupation army can manage to do.
It seem the Modi government's message to the Kashmiris is : "The beating will continue until the morale improves".
16
@S. Zafar Iqbal
What is a fundamental human right? Right to Life? Or a right to broadband internet and telephone service?
1
I do development work in Ladakh. For the Ladakhis, the repeal of article 370 is largely positive, as they are no longer yoked to the Kashmiris and can determine their own fate. As for the Kashmiris, the last time I visited in 2016, our hotel manager was so desperate, he begged us to help him find a job outside Kashmir so he could support his family. Historically a key stop on the Silk Road, many Kashmiris are talented businessmen and traders. These people just want to get on with their lives. Sure the Indian government has messed up in the past. So has the elected state government. Independence is not a realistic option. Since everything else has failed, why not give this new regime a chance? If they can bring normalcy back to the valley, that will be huge. It's not right that the moderate majority should be beholden to the ideology of an extremist minority.
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@Indianabroad
Why not, then, have an election and find out what the "moderate majority" actually want? That will never happen since Modi knows the answer.
18
@Indianabroad If it's about protecting the majority from a minority, why not simply allow them a referendum then? Why this violent change?
14
@G You should read history. Kashmir was independent until attacked by invaders from Pakistan. An independent Kashmir is not possible in the neighborhood. Referendum's don't solve any problems...the overwhelming majority in India don't want any redrawing of borders. Pakistan happened because the county was in its infancy. By the same logic there shouldn't have been a violent civil war in the US and the south should have been allowed to secede. India has as many muslims as Pakistan, there goes the logic of a muslim majority country which has been the breeding ground for terrorism and extremism.
36
The problem with Kashmir has festered for 70+ years with no solution in sight and Pakistan creating mischief via infiltration of terrorists in the valley and seeding them throughout India. The internet has been ably used by these elements to radicalize what used to a peaceful Sufi Muslim population with fanatical Saudi Wahhabi propaganda.
Article 370 that gave Kashmir a semi autonomous patina was misused by its greedy politicians holding back any development that would benefit the population. It was time for this anachronism to be righted by abolishing it. Such change in a radicalized environment requires prudence and restrictions put in place serve a purpose. They have to be relaxed over time. There may be some human rights violations but these are perhaps to weed out the miscreants.
Pakistan fears the development in Kashmir as it has kept its own occupied part undeveloped and is encountering unrest. It has reason to demonize India with unfounded propaganda.
6
Agreed, anyway, there is no point in indulging in other country's internal developments. Most of us know Pakistan is definitely not the lesser of the 2 evils, and harbor all the and guys. I have not heard India attacking other countries, but Pakistan always seem to attack India and get kicked by them. The biggest scare for Pakistan is this development will mean they will find it difficult to send the extremists across the border and the Pakistan state which is fragile as such will self implode.
14
Finally, a corrective to the steady drip-drip narrative of anti-Hindu and anti-India bias that has blanketed Western media. If Hindus are oppressed, it does not appear that the world cares much ... presumably, because we don't whine and complain like other groups. This is what I call the anti-Hindic bias in the social, cultural and political discourse in the West.
17
@Murali Pasupulati
It's not anti-Hindu, it's being anti-crimes-or-war. This is the same false "antisemitic" cries that erupt when Netanyahu is criticized.
@Murali Pasupulati
Sorry, didn't realize the vast majority of Indians who are in control of every branch of Indian government were being made into victims for their religious beliefs. Hopefully someone in power can help them soon! /sarcasm
Religious crybabies the world over need to take note that their cries will fall on empty ears as long as they make them from the stance of religious intolerance.
1
Congratulations to NY times for publishing great article and true story. People living in Western countries should know the true face of Pakistan the way they support terrorist groups to carry out proxy war with India. Pakistan is a failed state with no scope of improvement. It is time for the people of the world to stop all communications and trade with them, male them isolate till they come to senses.
12
Wherever in the world a nation or people move towards women's equal rights - we cheer them on. India must now adhere strictly to this story-line. No anti-Muslim laws or programs designed to evict Muslims. The danger is if Pakistan promotes chronic Muslim terrorism to incite India's conservative Hindi-hand to drive out Muslims. India might consider enticing some of those listed Muslim minorities to settle in these regions, for if as the author implies they experienced genocide at the hands of other Muslims - they would be allies to India by providing a corrective to Pakistani propaganda.
4
Of course India Is building a more prosperous Kashmir.
It is doing so by kidnapping all prominent peaceful Kashmiri political leaders and holding them captive without any cause or justification, indefinitely. This includes those who have served as Chief Minister of that state after having won democratic elections.
It is doing so by cutting off the ability of Kashmiris, who are theoretically speaking Indian citizens, to communicate and move freely in their own neighborhoods, violating all the rights they are supposed to have under the Indian constitution.
It is doing so by flooding Kashmir with tens of thousands of soldiers, all of them non-Kashmiris, several of whom have been credibly accused of various human rights abuses over the years, including rape, murder and torture. The primary purpose of this military presence is to terrorize the native population into submission.
It is doing so by permanently blinding hundreds, if not thousands, of Kashmiri youth, with the use of rubber bullets.
India is building a more prosperous Kashmir, just like the Britishers were building a more prosperous India back in the days of the British Raj. The only thing missing is the Indian army's patriotic reenactment of the Jallianwala bagh massacre. I have no doubt that too will happen soon, cheered on by the Indian media and public.
I feel envious of these fortunate Kashmiris. All this prosperity being built just for them!
17
I realize that this is a ridiculous thought, but when I read this kind of guff, I just can’t help briefly wondering if it was REALLY such a good thing that the Brits gave up India.
@Robert
Perhaps you are not aware. The British are having a really hard time holding on to Britain itself. Given such circumstances, it is preposterous to suggest that they should not have given up India.
2
@Robert
It may be worth looking up what the Brits were doing in Northern Ireland, up to the 1990s.
3
@Robert
It might be worth looking up exactly what the Brits did in Northern Ireland, up to the 1990s
This is an astonishingly myopic op-ed -- entirely focused on Pakistan. Completely ignoring the Kashmiri people themselves. It's very simple Mr. Ambassador: if it takes a complete and violent shutdown of life such as India has imposed in Jammu and Kashmir since early August to implement the "reorganization" of Kashmir's status, then the Indian government is forcing it down the throats of completely unwilling Kashmiris. How long can you keep Kashmiris locked down and still claim to be improving things in the region? Rather than the road to "progress and prosperity," this is the road to long term extreme repression and/or a long term civil war within Kashmir. You are making bitter enemies even of Kashmiris who supported the Indian government.
Democracies do stupid and anti-democratic things sometimes (witness several US foreign policy moves), but India will come to very seriously regret and pay a high price for this anti-democratic and thuggish action.
11
The sooner that Pakistan realizes that they have no locus standi on something which is purely India's internal matter, the better off they'll be.
India has changed the way a particular part of India -- in this case Jammu and Kashmir -- is administered and governed. It doesn't have repercussions for India’s external boundaries. Changes such as these are made by governments in all countries.
Pakistan is ticked off because after initiating and losing 4 wars against India to forcibly annex the region, the abrogation of article 370, in Jammu & Kashmir has come as a jolt to the long held Pakistani myth of racial superiority and martial prowess.
The psychological shock to Pakistan in a sense was even greater than the trauma of the 1971 defeat. The separation of Bangladesh was rationalized as inevitable due to geography and there was not much love lost for the local Bengali populace. Kashmir, on the other hand, was seen as a legitimate part of Pakistan and without which Pakistan was incomplete. In Pakistani minds, Kashmir's annexation was part of the unfinished business of Partition. Given Indian military superiority, Pakistan knows it cannot succeed using military means. It has painful memories of the past failed attempts and hence Pakistan has placed all its hope on international intervention to roll back Indian measures.
We're going to hear the usual shill from the PM & Pakistani establishment at the upcoming UNGA. Nothing new here, nothing to see.
14
Its surprising that why this piece was required from an ambassador with complete focus on problems of its neighboring country? Then a hush-hush plan to make kings out of slaves brushing away from severe human right violations by hundreds and thousands of military personnel inside cities who are just to keep terrorists in check who surely drop from moon after crossing the most guarded border with three-tier fences.
2
@Najmussaqib
It is the same as the Pakistan Prime Minister authoring an op-ed in this newspaper about a political incident in a neighboring country. The neighboring country gets a chance to respond, and the kettle gets to tell the pot what it thinks about being called black.
1
Mr. Shringla:
If India is building a more prosperous Kashmir, it is building it over the dead and oppressed bodies of the Kashmiri people.
Your article is absurd as well as extremely offensive, both to common sense and to humankind.
Can you confirm that China is building a more prosperous Xinjiang, and that the Uighur people are getting the benefit?
Can you confirm that Burma is building a more prosperous Rakhine, and that the Rohingya people are getting the benefit?
The parallels I draw are not precise, but generally and unarguably correct.
Dan Kravitz
11
@Dan Kravitz
You need to consider only two statistics to understand the situation.
Pakistan had 23% minority population in 1947 which has plummeted to 3% now.
Kashmir valley had a quarter million hindus in 1990 when Pakistan sponsored terrorism began and now it has less than 10,000. Rest of them living as refugees in their own country as they watched their homes burnt and their families threatened with sexual violence.
1
@Dan Kravitz
The parallels you have tried to draw are completely false and unarguably out of whack.
China does not give any democratic rights to Uighers and wants them to renounce their faith. Myanmar does not consider Rohingiya to be citizens.
The only thing India denies Kashmiri muslims (Other than muslims no one in earstwhile Jammu and Kashmir has any problem with what ever Indian government has done) is the right to divide Indian land in name of religion once more. Kashmiri muslims have all the rights a democracy can give its citizens. They have right to elect their representatives in the government, to practice their faith, freedom of movement, freedom of speech exactly in same way as other Indian citizens. The supposed champion of kashmiri Muslims Pakistan can not say the same about minorities in its own jurisdiction, where discrimination of minorities is codified in the constitution and where you can be legaly put to death for saying something deemed insulting to the majority religion.
Yes, India will not let Kashmir become another Pakistan where minority hindus and buddhists will be treated as second class citizens, living perpetually in fear for their life, fearing the day when their minor daughters will be abducted, forcibly converted to Islam and married off to highest bidder to be third or fourth wife of some reach old man.
2
@Dan Kravitz Nonsense Parallels, There are as many Muslims in India as there are in Pakistan. And they are more prosperous and have many more freedoms. You don't see the people of Kashmir moving to Pakistan. They are much better off in India and now they will be voting in Indian elections.
Denying people free access to the internet should be seen as a human rights violation. India does it freely, but only to peoples it sees as subjects and not participants in its democracy. It is a sham. Any government that prioritizes people based on ethnicity, language, faith, and denies people access to information, to speech, and to freedom, needs to be taken to task.
3
@Rob
What is a fundamental human right? The Right to Life? Or the Right to Internet access?
Interesting that the Ambassador did not suffer the inconvenient and troublesome details of the revocation of constitutionally protected Kashmiri land rights, the house arrests and forced detentions of Kashmiri legislators, and the loss of the rights and privileges of statehood with Jammu and Kashmir now subsumed as a Union territory. Also conveniently absent in this diatribe, the BJP's platform denouncing a secular India, i.e. a religiously diverse nation, so to ensconce Hinduism as India's state religion.
3
Clearly there are two issues here, the revocation of 370 for Kashmir and Pakistan shooting its mouth about it, especially Imran Khan. Pakistan's moral bankruptcy gives it very shaky footing to complain and one could see this as a Machiavellian move by Modi and company. The world is not going to be so shaken up when the pot calls the kettle black as Pakistan is doing and additionally, it is for the Indian side of Kashmir, so this further makes it hard for outside parties to be involved. Pakistan has almost wiped out their minorities and some even have to move around with cards (Ahmadiyas). But that said, Kashmir will be won by winning the hearts and minds of the people there and not by such authoritarian fait accompli.
7
@Dhaulagiri
The way India is killing the people of Kashmir, there will be no one left to win over their hearts and minds.
Modi is a modern day Hitler.
2
@AIM
Any data to back that up? anything?
2
@Dhaulagiri
This should be about Kashmir, not Pakistan. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Mr. Srinagar, stop lying on behalf of your government. We get enough lying from our own government.
India is building a more prosperous Kashmir? Really? Sounds like "Americans for Prosperity" of the Kochs! Hindu subjugation of Kashmir is for the profit and entrenched benefit of Hindus - like the subjugation of Palestinians for the exclusive benefit of non-Arab Israelis. Yes, Abbas like Khan can run their economies into the ground; how does that excuse outsiders coming in to militarily reorganize (ie subjugate) an entire population. Indeed, in what civilized country is the military used to "reorganize" society?
"While the rest of India['s wealthy elite] experienced strong social and economic development", the rest of the Indian population still lives in poverty, corruption, pollution, and other problems you've intentionally ignored to demonize a population that live a good if imperfect lives in a beautiful area India envies and wants to dominate, exploit and pollute on behalf of their vested entrenched elites. Filthy coal powered plants destroying the Kashmir environment is progress? Prosperity? Wake up and smell the coal soot!
Hindus "will deliver social and economic justice" to a Muslim majority population? You jest, Sir. Existing corruption replaced with outside corruption is not progress. Subjugation will only exacerbate the terrorism problem you have and is not excused by Muslim on Muslim violence in other areas of the world.
4
@Alex
India has 170 million Muslims. If things were so bad, there would be civil unrest which would make the war in Syria look like a walk in the park.
India's highest representative at the UN is none other than Mr. Syed Akbaruddin. He is a Muslim. But first and foremost, he is Indian. 2 days ago at a UNSC meet, he rebutted Pakistani attempts to issue a formal statement on Kashmir. Why doesn't NYT interview the numerous Indian Muslims who are content with Modi?
India has had 3 Muslim Presidents, one as early as the 1960s. It has had a Sikh Prime Minister. The leader of the previous ruling party was a Roman Catholic. Recently in Pakistan, a member of Imran Khan's cabinet was dismissed for being an Ahmedi (a minority sect) following an outcry from mullahs. In India, the Supreme Court ruled long ago that both Shias and Ahmedis are Muslims. In Pakistan, the legal status is ambiguous as both are viewed as heretics. There you have it. India is a far better country for minorities, Muslims included. It is no utopia, but it holds itself to a high moral standard.
Do a few beef killings define a country of over 1 billion? It's like saying a few hate crimes define 330 million Americans. That would be a sweeping generalisation. India has had equality enshrined in its secular constitution since it became a republic in 1950. Pakistan still persecutes Shias, Christians, Hindus and Ahmedis under blasphemy laws in its very constitution.
43
The Indian ambassador's claims are a ridiculous charade. I read the Pakistani ambassador's Op-Ed piece recently published in the New York Times and found it to be a responsible and sober statement of the problem which left open some doors to conciliation. Here I find hysteria and vilification against the Pakistan government. But leaving aside the conflict between India and Pakistan, the claim that India's actions "have no implications outside of India" is simply foolish. India's military occupation of Kashmir, under the current conditions that resemble those of a massive prison camp, is an affront to humanity and morally contemptible, at least as much as the terrorism that Ambassador Shringla ascribes to Pakistan. The potential for armed conflict that could escalate to a nuclear confrontation is certainly a matter for concern in international diplomacy. The Ambassador will need to do better if he would persuade world opinion to bless India's Hindu chauvinist aggression in Kashmir.
7
@sd
The only hysteria in the region emanates from the SELECTED PM of Pakistan, Imran Khan. He even suggested that the recent abduction and murders of Hindu girls in Pakistan was a plot against him in his upcoming UNGA speech. Give me a break.
1
Just a step on the road to annexation. Putin used the same arguments regarding Crimea and Netanyahu on the West Bank.
2
Oh. That must explain the ethnic cleansing. Not to mention the religious bigotry.
Having read Orwell’s great essay on political euphemisms, I must say that I am in awe. That “are in transition,” is simply, simply magnificent.
Bravo, sir. It’s unfortunate that I recognize the vintage...Austria, 1934, yes?
2
@Robert
Not sure what ethnic cleansing you are referring to. THe only one that happened in Kashmir was when 700,000 Kashmiri pundits (hundus) were driven out by the extremists in the 1990 under cries of "Kashmir me rehna hai to allah hu akbar kehna hai". "If you want to live in Kashmir, you have to say Allah hu akbar".
The events of 19 January 1990 were particularly vicious. On that day, mosques issued declarations that the Kashmiri Pandits were Kafirs and that the males had to leave Kashmir, convert to Islam or be killed. Those who chose to the first of these were told to leave their women behind. The Kashmiri Muslims were instructed to identify Pandit homes so they could be systematically targeted for conversion or killing.I am sure it is THAT ethnic cleansing that you referring to, right?
Sounds like the hollow apologia or the hollow Han subjugation of Tibet. 'Never mind the horrific repression, we bring you prosperity.' Prosperity for the occupiers, and in Kashmir, a very tenuous prosperity at that.
2
1. I am an Indian.
2. I like to think of myself as very liberal, and yet very Hindu (it's not a contradiction). I don't like BJP since I believe they are distorting the basic tents and meaning of Hinduism (or whatever other name you want to call it by).
So I would be the prime candidate to support human rights in Kashmir - right?
This is where it gets complicated!!
Whose human rights? The Hindu's who were driven out by the terrorists? Or the muslims (many of who support or feed the same terrorists) who are now oppressed by the government?
You see, some of my relatives ancestors were one of the 23% of the minorities in Pakistan who were either killed or driven out. If you include East Pakistan, the % figure is significantly higher. Those many tens of millions had only one option - leave everything or be killed!!
The same option is extended to the Hindu's in Kashmir's most terrorism prone areas!
At least the Kashmiri muslims have the option to stay where they are, albeit under oppression. So aren't they better off than my relatives ancestors who did not have that option?
So I humbly submit that the word "justice" and "fairness" has lost all meanings in this complicated context. There *is* no just solution any more.
That is what religious bigotry does to you!!!
14
Prosperous India is an oxymoron - India has the highest number of poor people in the world. Hindu nationalism under Modi is tearing the country apart, while little progress is being made on the economic front. Muslim Kashmiris and Pakistan will not stand by and allow this blatant show of jingoism. Get ready for years of strife, and the loss of thousands of innocent lives.
1
@mr isaac
Not the highest number of poor people in the world - yes, still a very large number, but trending down. From 125 million poor in 2016, to a projected number of 12 million in 2022 - that is a sizable reduction in the number of poor people. Give credit where it is due.
http://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Global_06-19_global-poverty-clock.png
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2018/06/19/the-start-of-a-new-poverty-narrative/
2
@mr isaac
I know! India is so poor, and you see everyone going to the bathroom in the fields and the poorest, dirtiest beggars any where in the world (and I have traveled all over the world.) The Indians are so focused on Pakistan -- well, Pakistan is SO much more developed than India! Everyone, even the poor have toilets and running water! There are beggars, but (part of the Islamic faith) people give often to them, and they're making ~$10/hr. I traveled through Pakistan and then into India - it was so NOT the India I'd been sold in travel guides. The huge houses and fancy cars of Pakistan were so few and far between. We saw about 5 Mercedes Benz cars the whole time --in wealthy neighborhoods, too -- in India - and 2 of them belonged to our hotel. Compare that to Pakistan, where, in wealthier neighborhoods, you'll see that many on a short side street or even in one front yard.
Excellent. India needs to enforce rule of law and secularism is Kashmir valley. While Hindus/Sikhs make up about 40% of the population of Jammu and Kashmir province, Muslim Kashmiris make up about 98% of population of the valley, which is the center of violence. Hindu Kashmiris have been driven out of the valley by islamic extremists supported by Pakistan, that cannot be allowed to stand. Additionally only 3 percent of Indian muslims live in Kashmir, so obviously it's not a issue of Indian muslims.
13
Lets be quite clear this is an "opinion" of the Indian Envoy. He is not hired to be critical of his own government.
The recent action in Kashmir is not a democratic one. This is a troubled region with a raging population fighting against the government. While it makes absolutely no sense for India to hold on to Kashmir, for any economic reasons. It is a psychological one. No government wants to be responsible to just give up land to another country especially an "enemy" with which they have fought 3 wars. Most of India's development and economic success is in the bottom half of the country where most Indians would care less about Kashmir. However it would be a psychological blow to the nation if Modi just folded and gave Kashmir to Pakistan. This has not happened anywhere, not even in Israel which "occupies" a large amount of land. China in Tibet and the list goes on and on.
The solutions are not simple and not easy and perhaps the stalemate was the best option. However by stirring the pot Modi has created a whole bunch of issues which may come home to bite him in the next elections. Only time will tell.
1
Very rich coming from Modi's government complaining about Pakistan's meddling. Where were you Mr. Ambassador when Modi was interfering with Nepalese political situation and decided to blockade the country when it was just recovering from the horrendous earthquake.
2
India is making Kashmir so prosperous that they cut off virtually all contact from Kashmir, so that the people of Kashmir can't tell anyone else in the outside world how prosperous they're becoming, lest the good news provoke a run on Kashmir and spoil all that prosperity for everyone there!
2
A very excellent article. Pakistan is a country which export only one thing i.e. terrorism. It is also a failed state in terms of economy, Human Rights, Democracy etc. It is a country where even Muslims are not safe what to talk about minorities. Look at recent murder of a professor which is a live example and also covered by NYT. Also Malala which advocate for girl education cannot get education in Pakistan.
6
This article would make a great teaching tool for instructing students how to react to political exaggeration in the era of Mike Pompeo. The average student will not have personal experience with all the events taking place in either Pakistan or Kashmir, yet needs to place this article in context. I guess the first question is what is the purpose of this article. Perhaps it should be taken at face value, a well placed Indian diplomat is concerned about the poor people of Pakistan and wants to give Prime Minister Khan some tips on how to improve their lot. Actually, it is a bit short on helpful suggestions for Pakistan, focusing almost entirely on India's shocking intervention in Kashmir and whether we should all view that with less concern. According to this note Kashmir has been saddled with a very hostile rule because "Pakistan has a vested interest in preventing prosperity in Jammu and Kashmir, and in the Ladakh area of Kashmir, because a weak economy fuels separatist sentiments in some quarters." Fortunately, India has come to Kashmirs rescue "Kashmir region is now back on the road to progress and prosperity because the Indian government has repealed an anachronistic and temporary law ." This is very upbeat, allaying concern about such issues as Hindu nationalism, violent treatment of Muslims in the province, etc. Should the student be worried that this Pollyanish view is too good to be true? Probably not, the Modi government is much more honest that Pompeo.
1
Dear Mr Ambassador why did Indian National Congress's then president Rahul Gandhi and his delegation was disbarred by military boots from entering into Kashmir? If Jammu and Kashmir is now part of India then by Indian constitution Kashmiri politicians can not be jailed for their political affiliations and views! You did not shed light on these aspects. You mention of our neighbour's dismal human rights conditions for the minorities is totally misplaced as millions of people in Jammu and Kashmir could even celebrate their religious festivities for the first time in 70+ years of our independence due to military lock down. You have also not justified in your piece, why there seems to be no end in sight of flagrant use of our military forces to impose media blackouts, continuous curfew in the whole of Jammu and Kashmir valley, and cessation of local economic activities. What relevance our neighbour's hiding of OBL episode has with our human rights violations in the Jammu and Kashmir valley? India is the biggest democracy in the world and to become one of the greatest democracy, we need to continuously protect and serve human rights across across the board and ensure absolute free media. Unfortunately Jammu and Kashmir valley has been put to dictatorial rule which can only be attributed to western fascism that led to second world war. Our foreign service officers should know better how to project and defend democratic norms of our democracy in the world.
2
@Tahir I also read the current PM of Pakistan admitted to funding terrorists against India. Former PM Gen Parvez Musharaff also clearly said during a live interview that Pakistan's state policy is to support terrorists.
Now, whether India wants to allow their opposition leaders into J&K is an internal matter for India and should not concern anyone else. Meanwhile, what should concern you is the state Pakistan is in, bankrupt, oppressive etc.
7
@Alex Balmer
Gen was a prez not a PM, get your facts right first.
Rahul Gandhi had and has every right to assess human rights violations in Jammu and Kashmir as the opposition leader and former president of Congress I.
If it is for the development of Kashmiris then why oppress them with a million military boots?Why millions of muslims were not allowed to celebrate their religious festivities? Human right is everyone's business in democracy. Again get your facts right.
I work in Japan and we Indians and Kashmiris get along very well in this country
A lot of Kashmiri- Muslim Indians who work with us Hindu Indians here in the banking Industry heaved a huge sigh of relief
They only know too well what the Pakistani Jihadists and terrorists have done to Kashmir’s economy as well as Kashmir’s minorities
Pakistan has been spreading terror and hate in Kashmir since the 1980s
Last Autumn and winter we all did a backpacking trip to the city of Kyoto and also visited the villages of Shirakawa-Go, Gokayama and Takayama in the Japanese Alps
Our Kashmiri compatriots has a great idea after seeing the Gassho-Zukuri houses in these villages which were also used for sericulture and manufacturing silk hand looms
All of us enthusiastically agreed that we could reconstruct these kind of houses in Kashmir and start a thriving Silk Industry in the state
There were other ideas like starting a World acclaimed glass blowing and manufacturing Industry in the state
We were all so refreshed happy and smiling after this trip
It was a binding and bonding backpacking vacation we can never forget and we snapped several awesome photographs together!
14
No sane business in the world would like to operate in a place with no internet and phones not guaranteed to be available.
Over the past several years Kashmir had internet cut off multiple times, and that was done by the center, not the state government. If indeed development was the intent, how can you succeed with the approach you have taken ?
The Ambassador's write up is part of a PR job planned a few weeks ago in haste by the government
1
Wasn't Malala Khan, a Nobel Peace laureate, shot and wounded in Pakistan for raising her voice? I think she has left Pakistan since then (she cannot return back to her own country for she may be killed).
Mr. Imran Khan may be the most unabashedly hypocritical of world leaders out there. His approach seems to be: "complain about fascism in outer countries, even threaten a nuclear war, while ignoring TERRORISM within Pakistan, and severe 'soft-elimination' of minorities in Pakistan."
Well, if the war that Mr. Khan so aspires for is fought, the good thing is that his persona may receive a Game of Thrones like culmination of it.
8
Martial law in Kashmir is not prosperity for the people in Kashmir or the other Indian states. This is Modi’s self-made non-secular mess and trying to point fingers just makes him look more and more like mini-Trump.
1
Let the Kashmiris vote. Let them self govern. With representation they can decide their own fate.
87
@NKM
Kashmir has a Sunni majority like Pakistan. A good way to see how an independent Kashmir might turn out, would be to look at Pakistan today.
Whereas India has had equality and freedom of worship enshrined in its secular constitution since it became a republic (1950), such rights have not been afforded to Pakistani citizens. Till this day, Christians and Ahmadis are persecuted under blasphemy laws. There is a town in Pakistan near the border with India, the country's only Hindu-majority town. It used to have 300 over temples. Now, only a dozen remain.
Kashmir cannot be allowed to become independent for the sake of Hindus in Jammu and Buddhists in Leh. They will be the first targets. Hindus have already been targeted since 1989 in the Kashmir Valley. Hence, the Indian Army presence.
Do you really think the Sunni Muslim majority in Kashmir will naturally gravitate towards secularism and religious tolerance? Please answer honestly.
You may not know this but there is no violence among Shia and Ahmedis in Kashmir. They are very content with Kashmir remaining part of India. And they know they are considered heretics in Pakistan. Shia mosques are frequently the target of bomb attacks in Pakistan. Recently, Imran Khan bowed down to pressure from mullahs to remove an Ahmedi from his cabinet.
Do you want this playing out in Kashmir too?
70
@NKM
The Kashmiris indeed did get the right to vote, and di vote, in the recently concluded elections in India, in the first half of 2019. And 46% of the votes went to the BJP, the party that is in power in India. The election results are public and easily available - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Indian_general_election_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir
18
@NKM Kashmir is an integral part of India. They do vote, just like the residents of any other state of India.
19
It is kind of short sighted to see everything happening in Kashmir from the prism of Pakistan. At independence, the British arbitrarily divided up India just like what they did in Africa and ME. Then India charted its path to progress after nearly a thousand years of foreign minority rule. Some 500 big and small prices and their fiefdoms had to be assimilated in a cohesive union. Laws were enacted for the uplift of women and disadvantaged classes. Meanwhile Kashmir stayed frozen in time because of its “special” status. It is high time to address this imbalance by canceling the “special” status of Kashmir. Pakistan, on the other hand, chose entirely a different path of Islamic radicalism and military rules. In addition to ruining its own economy, Pakistan started exporting terrorism to its neighboring countries of India and Afghanistan. Some of the top financiers and organizers of 9/11, including OBL, were caught in Pakistan. So, it is high time that the civilized world support India and condemn Pakistan.
48
Nobody seems to be asking the Kashmiris how they feel about this occupation of a Muslim majority region by a Hindu nationalist regime. The fact that communications and internet have been shut down or severely limited doesn't allow their voices to be heard. They don't get the chance to express their happiness at their newly found progress and economic abundance, so we'll just have to take the ambassador at his word.
10
@Jorge Kashmiris overwhelmingly supported indian unification in the recent past. Then the original inhabitants of Kashmir, the Hindus, were genocided and driven out by the millions. Sound familiar? We’ve seen this played out across the world in so many places.
7
@Jorge your comments above shows your communal angle and lack of knowledge of Kashmir region. India has more Muslims living and thriving than in Pakistan. India is a multi ethnic, multi cultural , multi lingual secular country with law and justice. Any self respecting country cannot allow a small region to seek independence based on just local population and how it wants to treat the minority in that region.
1
Partition of Indian subcontinent in 1947 was a disaster to both the countries It left an aftermath of Kashmir problem ,mutually antagonist countries who spend money on building armies at the expense of poor people.
Kashmir problem is not solvable until Hindus in India forget the legacy of oppressive Islamic rule in its past Muslims in turn have to learn ,accommodate and live with non Muslims . Strong arm methods by India,stone pelting by Kashmiris,unconventional war of thousand cuts by Pakistani terrorist proxies is not going to change status quo.
Pakistan by exclusively focusing on Kashmir issue with neglect of its economy is affecting its own internal security situation by encouraging Islamic extremists and damaging its democracy by encouraging ascendency of its dysfunctional extractive military
Pakistan can learn from its ally China as to how it dealt with its disputes with India. Keep the Kashmir disputes in deep freeze and concentrate on its economy.
Unfortunately letting the Kashmiri Muslims have self determination will not solve problems It will result in illiberal non viable Islamist state which is another Afghanistan .Kashmiri Muslims have already demonstrated their tendency in pogrom by displacing half million Kashmiri Hindus in their midst .Kashmir as an Independent country or absorbed into Pakistan will result in unraveling of multi ethnic state resulting in displacement of its Buddhist,Hindu,Sikh population and grave repercussions to peaceful Indian Muslims
27
Why all the obfuscation and confusion about how 'Kashmir is a very complicated issue'? Why do we have to be subjected to claims and counter claims from what the Kashmiris would call the 'occupying party'? From a human & democratic perspective the issue is quite simple - let the Kashmiris vote in a UN led plebiscite, as called for in the UNSC Resolutions that both India & Pakistan agreed to, and decide their future.
Is that not what the Canadians allowed the people of Quebec to do? Is that not what the UK has allowed the people of Scotland to do? If the Indians are so certain of the loyalties and prosperity of Kashmiris, why not let them decide via plebiscite and put an end to decades of violence & occupation of the people of Kashmir, and an end to the hostility between 2 nuclear powers that have fought multiple wars and could use the money spent on defence budgets on much more important issues.
26
There is a limit to self determination in world especially if it results in dysfunctional state which disturbs peace in neighborhood . India is a multi religious state with some Christian and Buddhist majority states in India who are living in peaceful coexistence under the umbrella of Indian constitutional protections Kashmiri Muslims also need to learn how to coexist with other people who have different religious or ethnic background
13
sure
but as per the un resolution the plebiscite can only happen after the unconditional withdrawal of the Pakistan army and other forces from all of Kashmir including gilgit balistan
after this withdrawal Indian troops will move in and
then the plebiscite takes place
let's get it on
10
@AgNoStIc MuSliM the conditions for a plebiscite need to first be met. that involves pakistan and china leaving the parts of the state they now administer / occupy. Can that happen?
14
Bold and assertive statement from the Ambassador, just about sufficient equivalence for a cricket-playing Prime Minister managed by the military. Article 370 was an instrument for terrorism, and prevented affirmative action and protection of women's rights. Article 370 also gave other powers (UK, US, China etc) to use it conveniently for their benefits on the international stage.
38
At the point of a gun and a revocation of local autonomy and self governance. The state sanctioned slavery embedded deep within many nations promoted prosperity - for those picked by the state. Genocide and occupations promote prosperity - for those picked by the state.
A prosperous world for some is rarely the same as a prosperous world for all.
9
@Tyler yes but what about the genocide perpetrated by the Muslims against their peaceful Kashmiri Hindus, while under this Article 370 regime in the 1990s? Should the world pretend that this didnt happen? Indias answer is to bring that area back from medieval times to the 21st century. This move is not dissimilar to the US move to annex Texas back in the 18th century.
1
More prosperous for whom, exactly?
8
@Melisande Smith
For all of India and Indians, Kashmir included.
1
Was excited to see an opinion post from Ambassador but quite disappointed upon reading it.
Where do I start? Mr. Harsh conveniently avoids talking about the 800k additional troops positioned in Kashmir, the complete blackout of media, closing of most schools and many hospitals, phone and TV access being cut off. Neither the fact that local governor and key officials were put under house arrest. And all of this happening overnight under a complete blackout! Is this how Kashmir is made prosperous or made to feel welcome? Nice try, though.
Of course, showing Pakistan's economy in a bad light and reminding of Pakistan's other problems -- that has nothing to do with the siege in Kashmir -- avoids having a substantive discussion. All countries have issues, some more than others. Modi had problems in Gujrat too to name a few.
Anyone with time for objective analysis, please refer to BBC and Washington Post reports or maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_conflict
23
@TM
Changing the status quo is always complicated..."800k additional troops positioned in Kashmir, the complete blackout of media, closing of most schools and many hospitals, phone and TV access being cut off. Neither the fact that local governor and key officials were put under house arrest."...there may be many more you did not list...but these are related to the longer term objective of bringing back the 'normal' rights that the author highlights and we know all Indians enjoy.
I am not sure I saw this piece as being about 'showing Pakistan's economy in a bad light'.. it frames the vitriol coming from Pakistan on the action by India as being driven by their vision for Kashmir being different from India's vision to treat Kashmir as a state on par with all other states in India.
I hope this positive vision comes to be and in a decade, and we see Kashmiris be coequal citizens with those in all other Indian states and contribute to the diverse and vibrant democracy that India is. Democracy on the scale of India's population is an untested concept.. I hope, for the sake of the world, that India proves that democracy, with all its potential flaws, is a workable model that can deliver peace and prosperity to 1.xBillion people!
20
If you act undemocratically to attain democracy it is not "normal". It is oppression.
1
@TM
"Anyone with time for objective analysis, please refer to BBC and Washington Post reports ..."
You mean just follow Fox News for all accurate amounts of the Trump administration?
1
Still does not address the one thing India has kept the Kashmiris from addressing. Their right of self-determination. Mr. Ambassador, stop lying, stop trying to make it a Indo-Pak issue, and face your conscience and what a democracy should behave as. I need to feel proud of being of Indian heritage again. The BJP/RSS and their puppies such as yourself, have stripped that pride away.
14
@Zahir Adil Kashmiris will get their freedom for self-determination. But that cannot mean Independence from India for the simple reason that a country of 7 million (that Kashmiris are dreaming about) will not be able to stop the Pakistan army from marching in the very next day. India cannot and will not allow that. Self determination for Kashmiris will have to be within the Indian Constitution and in the same way that 29 states of India have. India has sacrificed too many lives and wealth to keep Pakistan away, to one day hand over Kashmir to Pakistan on a platter.
3
@Zahir Adil,
Kashmiris will never have the right of self determination. You know why? Pakistan will make sure of it. Let us assume for a moment that Kashmiris decide to be independent and declare their own country. That will will not exist for more than one minute. Pakistan will gobble up that entire territory the moment Indian troops leave that area. The troops are present to protect the part of Kashmir that is currently a full fledged state. The terrorists and misguided youth function at the command of Pakistan army. That is the reality that will make any plebiscite completely meaningless.
Finally, a balanced & reasoned piece on India from NYT.
76
@Mandela - enlighten us as to how an editorial on Kashmir from the Indian ambassador to the United States can possibly be "balanced."
That's kind of an embarrassing acknowledgement. This is an op Ed. It is supposed to be biased, or pointed. This is not news and you'll be disappointed if you expect news to read like am opinion piece.
@Mandela Seriously, I was getting tired of news articles only criticizing India and the readers here basing their views on them.
Kashmir has always been a part of India.It has been for thousands of years , it is the place where thousands of years ago Hinduism and Yoga flourished and you still find many Hindu temples and sadhus in Kashmir. India does not owe Pakistan anything. Look at India and you will find muslims prospering in the rest of the country. There have been people of minority who have held highest post in India. And look at the Irony when Pakistan which is a fundamentalist islamic country which does not even recognise Israel talks of minorities in India. India should now work for development of Kashmir and make it at par with the rest of the country.
77
All of this talk sounds great but is unbelievable to anyone outside of India. Occupying Kashmir through the military and communication blackout undermines any noble reasons.
10
@Arun
I believe the assertion that there has been an "Indian" state that has existed, whole and continuously, for several thousands of years, is a myth propagated by the BJP and Modi. The myth also asserts the primacy of India as a Hindu state and is coupled of a regrettable trend over at least 20-3 years of reducing the rights of minority religions, increasing violence towards Muslims in india, etc. etc. And --ultimately what matters most of all is not who lived where a thousand years ago, but what modern-day residents of Kashmir want.
10
@Faith Herndon
Will those modern day residents include the Kashmiri Pandits who were driven out of their homeland by the Kashmiri muslim militants in 1989-90 with acts of rape and murder? Will they get a say? Will they be allowed to return? Why would they want to return to live among the people who drove them out? Where is their justice? If I were them, I would want a separate territory in Kashmir protected from their oppressors.
3
What's next? An op-ed declaring that barbed wire, disappearances, and tens of thousands of troops are making Kashmir more "free"?
18
@Frank O Yes. Just like civil war and million casualties created the shining city on the hill for the rest of the world to see - USA.
Glad to see at least one article (in liberal NYT) setting the facts straight after a barrage of pieces describing the "sky is falling down in Kashmir" scenario.
Bottom line: Kashmir is in such a strategic geographic location, there is no way it can be independent. China, Pakistan and India all have a piece of it. The only solution that is practical is status quo. India will never let Kashmir secede, after all it is named after the sage Kashyap.
50
What a lame excuse! Since when do you cancel constitutional rights and occupy a state with military who hurt and jail people to force them to develop economically and socially?
Oh, and its just a coincidence that these people are Muslim and the government (BJP) is Hindu nationalist? And the same government is taking away the citizenship of many Muslims in Assam with citizenship criteria few nations (except Myanmar) would allow.
India has gone backwards under BJP.
15
Ashutosh Varshney, the head of Brown University’s South Asia program, said that India “in all probability and unless checked is headed toward a Hindu nationalist, majoritarian state.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/world/asia/india-muslims-narendra-modi.html
Citizens in India whose families have lived in India for generations are now being forced to prove their citizenship. Most, of course, are Muslims. So what do we think is happening in Kashmir?
One need not take sides between Pakistan and India, nor between Hinduism and Islam to agree that Muslims in India under Modi are being horribly treated.
The ambassador writes that "This would be laughable if the reality was not so tragic." No criticism of what Modi is doing in India is "laughable," no matter the source. Tragic is the word.
15
@sing75
Similar to the US, are not immigrants without papers considered Illegal in the US (and a good portion are hispanic) . So only the US is allowed to enforce its laws but other countries are not? Can you go to any country in the Middle East or Step into Europe without proper papers? Why doesnt the US open its borders for all the people form india who are "persecuted"?
3
@sing75
What's wrong with Hindu Majoritarian state ? Why should checkmate it ? Aren't all western nations white Christian majoritarian states? China is a Han state. All Muslim nations are Islamic Majoritarianism states. World has better things to do.
@sing75 India is treating its Muslims so bad, that's why more and more Muslims (Rohingyas, Bangladeshis, and yes, even Pakistanis) are trying to illegally enter India, right? lol
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/pakistani-national-illegally-staying-in-agra-deported-1524119-2019-05-13
By development he means, unjustifiably detaining over 4,000 Kashmiri boys as young as 11 under the public safety act which allows people to be jailed for 2 years without charge or trial. All of the jails are full so some are even sent out of Kashmir and locked up. Mind you, this act is only applicable to Kashmir. By development, he means cutting out communication and inputting curfew till this day (its been a month )so now no one can go outside, resume labor, people who need medicine cant get it, women who are in labor have to find some other means to get help. By development, he means increasing troops to 1 million, Kashmir is already the most militarized place in the world, this is totally gonna help reduce tension. By development he means, allowing the soldiers employed in Kashmir to get away with murder as they are all protected under the Armed Forces Special Power Act which allows them to displace a group of 5 people, and even allow open fire if deemed as "dangerous" which is a human right violation right there, and a sad excuse to cover it up. By development, he means not consulting the Kashmir Parliament before removing its autonomy and constitution. Nobody realizes that Kashmir was supposed to have a plebiscite back in 1948 to determine who would control Kashmir. Pakistan, India or Kashmiris themselves. Indian supposedly the largest democracy in the world should have allowed that to happen. No one cares about the Kashmiris only their land. This is oppression. Say it.
9
@Haiqa
There were pre-conditions for the plebiscite to happen in 1948 - were they met? Or are you conveniently ignoring the facts that are inconvenient for your narrative?
India sure is making Kashmir a graveyard, 100,000 killed , tens of thousands in jails without trial, hundreds of children killed and blinded by pellets, hundreds of women molested and do you need to know more of your glory in Kashmir. Why don’t you Indians get it, we Kashmiris do not want to live with you. Leave us alone and go help poor people in Bihar and UP. Don’t lie , let international observers in and let them see how much blood you have on your hands in Kashmir. Shame on fascists so called democracy.
12
“We Kashmiris”?! What neighborhood in Boston is that again? Never heard of it...
@Rashi If you do want to live with India you are free to go to Pakistan. Kashmir is as much a land of every indian as it is yours
If this is such a boon to Jammu and Kashmir then why were communications with the outside world (no phone or internet access) blocked? Why was the province put under direct rule that prohibited gatherings of more than three people?
8
India always remained very defensive while dealing with Kashmir and Pakistan. The Kashmir issue basically created by first Indian Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru. Gradually it got mixed up with vote bank politics and then Pakistan's deliberate decision to use Islamic extremism as state foreign policy. It's high time to change the dynamics.
No one can never satisfy a mad dog by trying by throwing meat or imposing self-defeating options on itself. No sensible country would fight any war, directly or via proxy, in its own soil.
The problem of Kashmir is not any different than any other part of India & that include atrocities by Police & security forces.
The only issues that made Kashmir so special are-
1) Muslim majority population, mainly after severe ethnic cleansing of Hindus there.
2) Its geographical proximity to Pakistan.
Muslims in Kashmir, rest of India, & anywhere in the world need to understand that human/minority rights must not depend on percentage of Muslims (or any religion) in any city/state/country. Just check any conditions of minorities in ANY Muslim majority state/country, including Pakistan. On the other hand, % of Muslims always increased in any secular democracy, including India/USA/UK.
Almost all major democracies, including EU, USA, Australia etc. supporting India's narrative on revoking article 370. This news came just yesterday, published in many news media. "Terrorists Didn't Land From The Moon": European Lawmakers Slam Pak" (Source- NDTV)
38
Kashmiri self-determination is needed here. Why can't a proper referendum be held under UN auspices as was done in East Timor?
7
@Liz
Because the other (major chunk) part of kashmir is occupied by Pakistan (in fact the whole problem was created by the invasion of pakistani troops into the then independent Kashmir state ) and the UN resolution on a plebiscite was under the condition that Pakistan FIRST withdraw from its part of Kashmir which the great Imran Khan (first class cricketer and I was a great admirer of his crickiting ablities, but a dud as a PM) kinda "FORGOT" to mention.
3
This is the perfect example of a foreign matter that is none of our (American) concern or business. Let India and Pakistan fight it out themselves and leave us out.
13
Since when do media blackouts equal "progress and prosperity"?
14
This is the exact same rhetoric that is spread by the trump administration. Same style, same denigration, same self elevation, same broad generalization, same insulting tone ad hubris. This is what has been unleashed with the elevation of trump to the presidency; An open invitation to behave badly. As trump would say, "Very extremely badly".
3
"[T]he decision of the Indian Parliament to reorganize the province...corrects a historic wrong. It opens the door to rejuvenate a moribund economy..."
I believe that all internet and cell-phone communications were shut off. And this was really necessary to correct a historic wrong?
3
India has the world's third largest muslim population (~195 million), nearly equaing Pakistan. Unlike Pakistan, Indian muslims indulge in almost no sectarian violence or terrorism. Sure, hindu-muslim tensions exist. This is very similar to black-white tensions in the US. But it does not generally produce the scale of violence and terrorism seen in Pakistan and other muslim countries.
The reason we talk about treatment of muslims in India is the same reason we talk about treatment of blacks in America. There is a desire to improve treatment of minorities.
Guess why we don't talk about the hindus of Kashmir and Pakistan? Because they are killed or driven away. As the ambassador says:
"When Pakistan was created, its population was 23 percent minorities. This is now down to 3 percent, a figure that speaks for itself.
He did not mention that nearly all Kashmiri Hindus are either dead or gone.
106
@findOut
"Guess why we don't talk about the hindus of Kashmir and Pakistan? Because they are killed or driven away. As the ambassador says:"
The ambassador did not say anything. He implied that they left or were killed or whatever. For the figures that he reported there is a very simple explanation (if you look for it). Most of those minorities were part of East Pakistan which is now Bangladesh, that's why today's numbers are low for Pakistan. I don't know specifically about Kashmiri Hindus but the ambassador did not explain anything with his misleading statement. He just put out some numbers and gave no explanation.
6
@AN
"He implied that they left or were killed or whatever."
Which is absolutely what happened in the past and is happening to this day. Many Hindus each year (5,000 according to one member of Pakistan's National Assembly) migrate to India every year due to persecution, kidnappings, murder, and forced conversions. Anti-Hindu hatred is fanned by extremist clerics like Mian Mithu who have been patronized by Imran Khan and Pakistan's army chief. The migrants live in squalid refugee camps on the outskirts of Delhi, without clean water or electricity. Yet these terrible conditions are evidently preferable to life as a minority in Pakistan.
Conversely, the flow of Indian Muslims migrating to Pakistan to escape persecution is non-existent.
11
@AN, it's not misleading. He's not saying how many were killed and how many were driven away. It's most accurate not to say anything because nobody knows. I only know that both my parental grandparents were driven away.
3
An Indian Ambassador talking about how prosperous Kashmir is going to be is equivalent to the Tobacco company telling consumers how Smoking regrows your Hairline and doesn't give you cancer.
The ambassadors opening remark is a classic case of straw-man & scapegoating. Direct attention away from Kashmir by pointing out the flaws in the people that voice concern.
Reality is, PM Imran Khan of Pakistan, clearly said, "those in Pakistan who feel they need to fight for Kashmiris by infiltrating Indian Occupied Kashmir, are actual against the plight of Kashmiris" -- Clearly voicing against sponsoring terrorism.
India currently has 250 active militants/separatists i n Indian Occupied Kashmir, while it stations 1 million troops in the region. At the same time, Kashmir is on its 46th day of complete Lockdown.
And you are blaming Pakistan for the lack of obedience from your "Subjects" who you have been actively oppressing for the last 40 years? That is laughable to say the least.
Pakistan, may have a bad reputation, but readers and activists rent as gullible as the Indian citizens who live in a bubble under the Pseudo-Secular and fake democracy known as India.
9
The ambassador comes off a bit tone deaf in my opinion. It doesn’t seem right for India to just sweep human rights violations under the rug, because they are somehow justifiable for the greater good. Seems a bit authoritarian to me.
4
What we need to hear is the Kashmiri Voice. That voice has been quashed since the people of Kashmir have been under Curfew for the past 45 plus days
10
1. People talking about UN resolution should know that its first condition was Pakistan demilitarizing its occupied part of Kashmir then India will be allowed to deploy a minimum military force. Pakistan never agreed to do that. This is called Hypocrisy.
2. Internet and communication is blocked only in 10% areas of Kashmir today. Indian government is doing so to save Kashmiris' lives. A large number of Terrorists have been trying to to enter Kashmir valley through PoK terror lauchpads. Many terrorists have been captured with weapons and granades, and some have been neutralized.
3. Kashmir's special status(Article 370 ) was given by Indian constitution, which has been taken back. So how it is not India's Internal matter?
4. Kashmir's king (Hari singh) wanted to Kashmir to be a part of India, not Pakistan, but Pakistan forcefully occupied a part of Kashmir in 1948 Indo-Pak war. So in legal terms not only Kashmir, but also PoK is a part of India.
5. Compare the condition of the people living in Indian kashmir and the people living in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. An honest person will see who is the perpetrator.
6. Why people don't talk about ongoing protests for freedom in Pakistan occupied kashmir, Human rights violations in Baluchistan and many other parts of Pakistan?
7. Compare the population growth of Indian Minorities and Pakistani minorites after 1947. You will see who is the perpetrator. Which country is doing ethnic cleansing.
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@Farhan akhtar Resolution 80 of 1950 calls for both countries to withdraw at the same time.
2
@Farhan akhtar
Religious cleansing ....
Pakistan has done religious cleansing and not ethnic cleansing
Ethnically Kashmiri Muslims and Hindus are the SAME
Ethnically Pakistanis are also same as North Indians
Pakistan. Want to make itself a 100% Sunni country with no non-Muslim minorities, no Shias, Ahmadiyyas, Bohras or Baha’i
1
@Shuaib It also requires Pakistan to be out of Gilgit-Baltistan.
1
this should have been written up and presented to the world community on the day of the repeal. better late than never.
14
I hope no one tries to bring prosperity to me and the community where I live in the manner in which it is being brought to the people of Kashmir.
9
@PH: Living half a world away, you are perfectly entitled to make uninformed comments on the actions of a foreign country in its own territory.
I suppose you think restrictions on access to internet & mobile services are violations of human rights. Not having access to WhatsApp & Facebook is like stripping a person of his/her human dignity, correct?
I also suppose you will be happier if restoring these services enables instigators to organize mobs that attack security personnel, and then someone is killed in the response.
Understand the importance of this one sentence the ambassador wrote: "Preventing loss of life is the highest priority."
You have Canada & Mexico as neighbors. India has Pakistan & China. Geography does make a difference, whether you like it, or not.
4
How about India making itself prosperous first, including its lower-caste/religion citizens, before trying to bring prosperity to Kashmir?
3
@Dalitdan Kashmir is also part of India. Prosperity needs to be brought to all parts of the country at the same time. Pls read the article carefully, the Indian ambassador has mentioned that the Art. 370 was a hindrance to development of Kashmir, hence repealed
14
Indians are movie buffs. If you go back and look at movies shot in the 70s and 80s, almost every one of them, irrespective of which region they are catering to, had to have some scenes from J & K. That was the beauty and the allure of Kashmir.
Every winter as I drive my kids up to Lake Tahoe for skiing I just can't stop thinking about the lost business opportunity and the prosperity of the region. With this change, I am really hopeful for the people of the region and for anybody who wants to visit Kashmir. One of the most beautiful places on the planet!
17
Some context for the Americans regarding the Kashmiri Internet blackout. In 2016, after the death of a popular militant, violent protests broke out in Kashmir valley resulting in death of 37 people in first week. Over 300 Whatsapp groups were used to organize stone pelters and inflammatory videos originating from Pakistan were shared widely in social media to incite the public. If there were no temporary internet restrictions, people will die. Its a choice between definite loss of lives and temporary internet restrictions. These restrictions are being phased out gradually by local Kashmiri administration under the Governor.
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@Anil Nadella the real question is why do they come out pelting stones when they know they will be met with bullet? What was it about this militant that made them come out in droves. Basically they believe that India is an occupier and this is their act of defiance. With this act & silencing of all Kashmiris voices, India has sealed that deal. They may not die today but they will never forget the dehumanizing. Unfortunately, the loss of trust is monumental & will undo any development India offers.
1
@Anil Nadella
Mr. Nadella, you have given a good excuse for internet blockade. Can you please also explain why 3 former Chief ministers are in Jail? And why are the local newspapers not being allowed to print? And why were Rajiv Gandhi and Ghulam Nabi Azad ( the opposition leaders)turned back for Srinagar airport? And why is Amnesty International not allowed to go to Kashmir? And what is AFSPA?
Thank you ,
1
Kashmir had a special status in India's Constitution out of respect for it being the only state with a Muslim majority. In other states Muslim numbers are larger than in Kashmir but they are not a majority. Nehru and Gandhi were sympathetic to the Muslim history and culture of India and did not want religion-based partition, but as the partition came nevertheless, they retained those Muslim sympathies and some additional guilt resulting from failure in keeping the country united. This is why Sharia based Muslim personal law was allowed and other considerations were granted, which turned the Muslim minority into a vote bank for the party of Nehru and Gandhi, the Congress party.
This background for Kashmir's status led to the progress of events in two directions. One is the Pakistani interest in affairs of Kashmir which Kashmir's weak link status with India let happen because India could not bring about structural changes there, as the ambassador states. The other is the socioeconomic stagnation in Kashmir vs rest of India for which its special status is a big contributor.
Over the years, stake holders arose in Kashmir who benefited from the special status- the Sheikh Abdullas, the Muftis, and various liberation groups arose who got money from Pakistan and abroad and lined their pockets. In a situation like this, India had no option but to set things straight. Let us be mindful that ending this status was part of the agenda for which the people elected Modi this year.
31
Indian governments action in J and K will help the people suffering for many years and deprived of the opportunities by its misguided hand picked leaders. Some of these leaders have kept the local people in dark while enjoying at their expense ;even sending their children etc to foreign lands for education and settlement.Local now will start seeing the benefits soon.
39
@Rishi
Locals will see the benefits soon, if they survive this crackdown.
1
India is a wonderful nation, but this push for control of Kashmir is dangerous and destabilizing. Salman Rushdie once said that “From the beginning men used God to justify the unjustifiable." As money is our modern God, it is not surprising to see it used as justification for these dangerous actions in Kashmir.
10
@Ben P India is not using religion to control Kashmir, the state had lawfully acceded to India in 1947 post Indian independence and partition between India and Pak. It is Pakistan and separatists in Kashmir that are using religion (Kashmir is muslim majority, unlike rest of India) to stoke separatism.
4
The Indian Ambassador being a complete pliant mouthpiece of the increasingly authoritarian and bigotted government. Kashmir's statistics on many indicators are well above the PM's home state of Gujarat. If the Ambassador has any self-respect he would stop representing such a government and such diplomats should be shunned by the larger diplomatic community.
26
@RM
Can you talk about these indicators? Levels of literacy, poverty, industrial growth rates, ease of doing business, higher education, infrastructure, access to clean water, power, prosperity, health etc. etc. Let's see a comparison between J&K and Gujarat. Thanks in advance.
12
The Modi administration is correcting a wrong that was long due.
Kashmir was part of India, both sides, the real territory that is in dispute in the city of Lahore.
It is the spiritual capital of the Sikh people which was stolen from them during the partition.
While Pakistan is aware of this, they refuse to negotiate and transfer the property.
The other duplicity of Pakistan is their complete silence on the Uygurs from China, who are treated worse, yet ignored when Pakistan talks to China.
87
Let's for a minute stop heeding claims and counter-claims of the two sides, India and Pakistan. Let's consult Google that has now become a widely accepted encyclopedia of the world.
Check what it says about the growth in the population of Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan and of Muslims in India. While Hindus and Sikhs are almost decimated in Pakistan and grwoing at one of the lowest rates in the world, Muslims in India are growing at the highest rate of any other community in the country - indeed at one of the highest rates in the whole world.
What does it tell other than that while Muslims feel secure in India, Hindus, Sikhs and the rest of the minorities, including even those that belong to smaller Muslim factions, feel threatened and endangered?
It is astounding to hear Pak supporters talk of freedom. How much freedom their country has had in the last 70 years? For a number of years, Pak has been under direct military rule, while other times the civilian leadership operates under the thumb of its army chiefs. Supporters of the largest terrorist-making factory in the world talk of human rights? Doesn't that take your mind to the old Laurel and Hardy cartoons that entertain and make you laugh every step of the way?
185
@IWaverly
This is a complete strawman argument. Yes, Pakistan has been oppressive of minorities, and yes, India hasn't in general. But that is not what is being debated here. This is about Kashmir, its status, and its future. And over here, India's hands are not so clean.
Yes, Pakistan has no legs to stand on to make claims of freedom and oppression, but that doesn't excuse India's actions in Kashmir.
6
@Santa Dear Santa if were to ask a gift from you, it would be this: "Dear Santa please don't let Pakistan send terrorists to Kashmir in the early '90s and thereby save so many lives, money and time"
I don't know if you are a Pakistani, but I agree that it's hard on Kashmiris. I feel bad that they don't have cell phone and internet connectivity among other inconveniences. I also feel bad that their statehood was removed without their consent.
Despite all this, if Pakistani establishment let Kashmir be in the 1980s and never interfered, all this suffering could have been avoided.
If you are a Pakistani, I understand your pain of losing Bangladesh. But Pakistan brought it on themselves. In India, there's nothing stopping a Kashmiri to be Prime minister of the country.
7
@Karthik Kambam
No, I'm not Pakistani, have no connection to that country whatsoever.
But the whole argument presented here by the Indian ambassador to Pakistan can be roughly simplified to this: get your own house in order before lecturing us. I am in complete agreement that Pakistan has no legs to stand on when it starts talking about freedom or human rights. But that is completely besides the point here and hence the finger pointing here by the Indian ambassador toward Pakistan is nothing more than a diversionary tactic.
The point being discussed is the oppressive tactics of the India in Kashmir, culminating in the unilateral change of status by the government without regards to what Kashmiris want. That truth stands by itself, irrespective of whatever Pakistan says.
India has longed maintained that Kashmir is an internal issue. I would say, deal with it as such, and do it in a way that a proud and tolerant democracy would. Don't follow the thuggish means of autocratic states.
2
The big question no one asks is why does not the part of Kashmir in Pakistan called "Azad Kashmir" (Free Kashmir) by Pakistan itself have its own Prime Minister and Government which is independent along with its own defence and foreign policy?
Before PM Khan cast allegations on others he should demonstrate through actions and words the part of Kashmir which is under Pakistan is a true beacon of freedom, democracy, human rights, social equality and justice and economic development.
With that comparison not only would the world but all Indians would have to listen.
63
@Adiba Azad Kashmir does have a Prime Minister. It has autonomy in all departments except foreign policy and defence.
1
@Shuaib
What you conveniently omit/conceal is that no party which doesn't believe in Kashmir banega Pakistan can contest in elections! Punjabi settlers in POK and Gilgit-Baltistan have altered the demography! Plebiscite train has been derailed by Pakistan!
All India has accomplished is take J&K off the table for discussion with Pakistan. Whether that works well remains to be seen. None of their interests are being represented by either India or Pakistan. Whatever benefit accrues to them from either government will be purely accidental, the issue really is about water and access to it.
4
As an empathetic Indian I feel for my Kashmiri brothers and sisters. However, we must all ask ourselves what got us here? Hundreds of princely states smoothly integrated themselves with secular India. 370 was NOT a part of the accession agreement when King Hari Singh agreed to joined the union. This is a problem of hate that has been continuously fanned for 70 years from across the border, and is the very reason for existence of many terror outfits in Pakistan, and much of its hugely bloated army.
The state’s residents have been blinded by this hate (it was peaceful for long till 1989) and taught to drive out their neighbours (Kashmiri Pandits) from their centuries old motherland. We have protests in many parts of the country, but where else do we need to deploy the army this way? It is not because of the desire to subjugate but because of it is a British MP put it this week - terrorists haven’t dropped on earth from the moon!
The Pakistani PM speaks in two voices by issuing nuclear threats and talking peace in the same speeches. He acknowledges how Tens of thousands of terrorists roam on his side of fhe Indian border, as if they were Gardners! India won its freedom by non violent methods and this fight has been fostered onto it by a terror spewing neighbour and not by its own people. It is battle requiring some firmness in approach to fight an enemy deploying a stated strategy of death by thousand cuts. The world needs to see that clearly.
121
"When Pakistan was created, its population was 23 percent minorities. This is now down to 3 percent, a figure that speaks for itself. "
The numbers are true and horribly misleading at the same time (by omission). I have seen it often quoted in the comments section and now I see it quoted by a representative of the India government.
Dig in to it and you will find that about the time of the partition, there were about 22% Hindus in Pakistan: <2% from West Pakistan and the rest in East Pakistan. Now that East Pakistan is Bangladesh, they are not counted and Pakistan is left with <2% today (still). The quote makes it sound like something happened to all these minorities.
I'm sure the ambassador is aware of this. He says, "a figure that speaks for itself" and that is where he is lying. The limited information clearly does not speak for itself. It has to be explained that those people are/were in Bangladesh.
54
@AN
Regarding 'digging in', I suggest you get hold of the 1941 census and do your homework before stating that there was only 2% Hindu population in West Pakistan at the time of the partition. The next census was in 1951 after the partition.
In any case, we should all look forward and not backward. Islamic states throughout the world are strife-torn and lagging behind because of religion. Note, I did not say their religion, simply religion. The US will suffer the same fate as Pakistan if it becomes a Christian Republic. Same goes for India if Mr. Modi's party wants a Hindu Republic.
14
@SV
I believe the numbers that the ambassador quoted are from the 1951 census vs recent. A lot of people moved around on both sides because of the partition, so I don't know how much we can gain from the 1941 census.
My only point was that the ambassador's statement was implying something very negative (people moved or were killed) when that was just not the case as far as the numbers go. There is a clear reason for those numbers and he chose to stop short of that explanation and let people think the worst. That is deceptive.
5
@AN Both your numbers and the ambassador's numbers are incorrect, but his are much closer than yours. According to the 1941 census, the last conducted in British India, Hindus made up 14% of the population in West Pakistan and 28% of East Pakistan/Bangladesh. Today, the percent of Hindus is 2% in Pakistan and 10% in Bangladesh. The ambassador's overall point is absolutely correct, however. The residents of once-cosmopolitan Lahore, now 97% Muslim, can go there entire lives without meeting a Hindu or Sikh, which would have been unthinkable before 1947.
14
It would all come to a happy conclusion if India agrees to hold a referendum in Kashmir and ask the people of Kashmir what they think. They won't need nearly a million security personnel, including half a million regular soldiers to enforce their goodwill on Kashmir. I am sure that being the worlds largest democracy they would know how to hold a referendum as demanded by UN resolutions.
29
@Raza please do read the original resolution of the referendum. It called for the complete withdrawal of all Pakistani forces from all parts of Kashmir and for India to then hold it. Pakistan never left. Referendum never happened. Years later demographics and ground realities make it not impossible.
44
@Raza
Plebiscite was conditional. Pakistan had to first withdraw their forces from Kashmir. That never happened.
9
@Raza Before India can referendum Pakistan needs to vacate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Also return the part that was ceded to China. This is the according to UN resolution that Pakistanis keep on harping around
7
If the benefits of India's actions are so obvious, why impose them unilaterally and through military/police occupation, media and telecommunications blackout, and arbitrary detention? "Social justice," indeed.
72
@Zachary Sometimes, you have do that in order to secure peace.
7
@jack With restriction or not, people are and still are gonna die. There is only one thing Kashmiris want and this freedom from India. You cant suppress (some would even say oppress) a group of people for decades. India claims to be the largest democracy in the world but they don't respect the human rights of the Kashmiris. There has been unjust in Kashmir, mass rapes, mass massacres, enforced disappearances. None that would ever be reported in the Indian media. You can't revoke someone's autonomy without consulting their parliament. That's an attack. Kashmiris were never consulted. The Kashmiris were never considered. You cannot justify this no matter what.
2
@Zachary
Military is there to stop Pakistani terrorist from Pakistan sending in to disrupt any progress that is India is trying to do- and which Pakistan army actively doing as you read this. The police is there like police in any community to keep local law and order. What part is that you do not understand? A military's presence in own country is not called occupation.
4
I am wondering if prosperity is possible without human rights and if it is, the question is whether it is worthwhile to pursue this goal at the costing of restricting freedoms and curbing basic human rights such as the right to communicate and debate. Ask Indian born Nobel Laureate, Amartya Sen..
16
@Sadia
I see the thrust of your charge. However, if you have not done it yet, I suggest that you go on a Hajj to Saudi Arabia and on the way make stops on the neighboring Sheikhdoms.
You would see prosperity and lack of freedom exist side by side without the locals clamoring for the
Arab Spring or Pak style democracy. Indeed, a known Pak TV personality was thrown into a Saudi prison during a visit to Saudi Arabia for badmouthing the royal family in a small, private gathering.
See, those regimes have found a way to extend and give a taste of their freedoms to casual visitors also. Try it. It will do you good. Spiritually you would feel rejuvenated and mentally mended.
11
@Sadia the problem is the BJP gives no respect to intellect. Amartya Sen, one of the world's smartest and most thoughtful economists, is ridiculed by the Modi-run BJP and its supporters.
2
@Sadia Yes, you are right. But, How do you prevent communication between the stone pelters and armed Jihadis and their ISI handlers in Pakistan?
8
Kashmir seems complex mainly because Pakistan supports separatists and terrorists to ensure Kashmiris cannot prosper.
Look at Indian Muslims in every part of India. Like others, they have progressed and prospered. The more secular they are, the better their advancement over the past 50 years. The same is true for Hindus and Sikhs as well.
The reason is simple: education, particularly in STEM fields, has enabled graduates to get good jobs in new fields that pay well. Opportunities for better jobs are available in India, Middle East and a few even in US/Europe. New businesses are also a great option in India.
Pakistan however is in the grip of religious fanatics and the military. Any rational leader of Pakistan will seek to match India's progress by focusing on education and development; at the expense of Islamic conservatives and the military. Kashmir offers these two Pakistani groups - the religious extremists and the military - a great way to cling to power.
Trump should abandon all support to Pakistan until they renounce terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism. We do not owe Pakistan anything. The people of Pakistan would benefit from tough love - the more their government focuses on education and development the more support we give them.
221
@Rudran
I don't know why you brought Trump or the USA at the end of your comment, but since you did...
You don't understand the relationship, yes USA does not owe anything to Pakistan, it is the opposite. USA is *using* Pakistan. Pakistan is USA's ally from decades ago to balance out India's friendliness with Russia, and also with China being nearby. USA used Pakistan as a conduit for its proxy war with Russia in Afghanistan. Pakistan gets a significant amount of weapons from USA (who is benefitting here?). USA wants Pakistan in its corner so that it has presence in the region. USA used airbases located within Pakistan. USA will not drop Pakistan (regardless of what Trump says) because it wants to maintain that presence. USA throws a bone to Pakistan now and then (e.g. aid) to keep the leadership satisfied and maintain its not-so-invisible influence on the government.
3
@Rudran
No Pakistan is not in the grip of religious fanatics. If anything India is currently ruled by a fanatical clique of extremist Hindus that are on a mission to make India into an intolerant and hate filled country--hate against religious minorities and even lower caste Hindus.
The sad part is that India is so much more than the BJP government and its ilk what with its outstanding international public intellectuals and its past great leaders like Mahatma Gandhi who set an example for later world leaders like Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela.
I live in an apartment complex in an upper middle income neighborhood of Karachi where around 25% of the apartments are owned by Hindu families who live in complete peace and friendship with their Muslim neighbors. Everyone has an attitude that we're all in this together facing the daily struggles of living as best we can regardless of our religion which is a matter of each person's conscience. Could the same type of apartment building exist in Mumbai or one of India's other major cities where it's difficult for even well to do Muslims to rent, let alone buy, an apartment?
Truly as Adam Smith said "There is a great deal of ruin in a nation".
5
@Ashraf https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/pakistan-news/riots-in-paks-sindh-over-alleged-blasphemy-by-hindu-school-principal
This is not a one of thing. Forcible conversions....
What was the %age of minorities at independence and now?
2
I think China stated the exact same for Tibet!
That being said , its ok to wait and see if it really works out for the good of the Kashmiri people in say 6 months time.
If not , its now mirroring the agressor only instead of that India stood by for the people of Tibet and East Pakistan.
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@weary traveller Every oppressor sapeaks of how they will bring prosperity, and as you mentioned, China said the same about Tibet. China now oppresses and culturally-cleanses the Uighur in what are the largest concentration camps since Nazi Germany. No, its NOT OK to wait and see. How does prosperity come with lock-downs, pellet guns, and one soldier for every 10 civilians? We, you and I, need to make it clear that solutions and restorations of dignity and rights has to be now!
I think the point is that the world has lower standards for Pakistan as it is known to be a country supporting and exporting terrorism and slowly extinguishing its minorities.
However India as secular country has to be held to and live up to a higher standard. I get it that that the sentiments of some Kashmiris that muslim majority regions can only be governed by muslim countries is a rooted in its own form of ignorance and that ending this kind of thought is not easy.
On balance I don't blame India for its actions in Kashmir and the problem so far seems to be appearance and messaging so far.
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@John True. Those who opine otherwise should ask themselves if they were ok with Lincoln allowing south to secede instead of waging a bloody war to save the union.
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@John You just hit the bull's eye.
@John "higher standards" is a synonym of double standards. Thanks but no
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We know that Kashmir has become a militarized state with dissidents being sent around the country to jails.
The US losing moral ground allows actions like this to happen without consequences.
Elections matter.
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@Gustavo How in your opinion should Kashmir and terrorism promulgated by Pakistan be addressed? What has previous administrations done to curtail pakistan's role in promoting terror?
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@Gustavo, please read some history about this very complicated region before issuing blanket statements. Kashmir has been “militarized” by terrorist attacks for decades by Pakistani ISI sponsored terrorists and Indian military sent in response to “protect Kashmir” and committing their own excesses. Kashmir is in such a geopolitically strategic and vital area that letting it go would be like the US letting Texas and California secede while knowing that their neighbor will send drugs and cartel gangs freely across the border to their doorstep. Except in the case if India and Pakistan, it would be terrorists and nuclear bombs at India’s door step. So letting Kashmir “just go” is not an option. Legally, Kashmir belongs to India. It’s residents have had to endure a conflict created mostly by Pakistani insecurity for the last 70 years while getting more and more cut off from the rest of India which is on an upward economic trajectory. Yes, I believe the current Hindutva govt is the wrong agent to carry out much needed change in the Kashmir valley but no other National or provincial government had the guts to change anything for the better before that. For the sake of the Kashmiris, I hope they choose India despite their resentment towards the Indian military because Pakistan is a sinking ship that will take others down with it. There are no easy answer when it comes to Kashmir.
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We have seen a lot of negative press in the Times against India in recent weeks since the Article 370 changes in Jammu & Kashmir. As someone of Indian extraction, I know from childhood that the reality on the ground is much more complex. Yes the military forces violated human rights in the valley - otherwise so many incidents would not have been reported if there wasn't a historical pattern of abuse. Yet the cross-border terrorism from Pakistan (likely nothing to do with ordinary Pakistani people most of whom are trying to make a living and get on with life) and corruption at the root of such a dire situation in the valley cannot be ignored. The Ambassador shows a different perspective (many facts that are hard to argue against) and we can only hope the tall claims he makes about economic development actually happen. That will be the only true test. Everyone should want that to take place and replace the cynicism that paints each side in extreme ways ends. Truth is always somewhere in the middle. Good luck to that region and the people of J&K
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@Harry M the root of human rights abuse reported in the West is the impossible situation Indian army is put in. The terrorists hire locals to throw rocks and use women and children as human shields. Indian army doesn't do this elsewhere in India and definitely not to Muslims elsewhere in India. So there must be a reason as to why this happens in Kashmir.
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@Harry M. There was nothing stopping India from implementing the development narrative. Nothing stopped India from investing in kashmir as land was available on 99 yr lease. For many years at a time it was under governors rule, which would take away their excuse of state based corruption. Most health/ poverty indicators in J/K are better than national avg. This isn’t about development. I see no reason to believe this hoax. In any case, development without dignity is a sham.
@GV. The last count the govt said there were 250 terrorists in the valley. That’s it. People are throwing stones because they feel intimidated/ by constant military presence in their lives for last 30 yrs and they vent whenever they can. I am not defending stone pelting. Just telling you the reason for it.
Sure, plenty of blame on both sides in this epic struggle, and Kashmir has suffered plenty,
But one has to try to objectively look at it and the kernel of truth is that India is advancing and making itself a better country for its people overall, while Pakistan seems mired more in the past with less to show for its population,
From the US perspective, Pakistan is a far more troublesome player, ally is now much harder to ascribe to it.
And many would say Pakistan has been a major hiding ground for our enemies be it Bin Ladn or Taliban, and tribal Mujahadeen,
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@Ira Cohen
Whether Kashmiris want to be a part of this 'rising, prosperous India' is not a decision that Indians get to force upon the Kashmiris. It is the Kashmiris that should have the choice, as enshrined in the UNSC Resolutions, to decide which country they wish to be a part of through a UN led plebiscite.
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Yes, for sure. But there are pre-conditions to this that Pakistan has never fulfilled so far. Read up on the resolution first. They have to vacate Gilgit-Baltistan first, among other requirements.
Jammu and Kashmir also have minority Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs. It is only fair that their wishes to be very much part of 'rising, prosperous India' be taken into account? You will agree that a majority cannot oppress a minority, especially in a democracy. As to Islamic countries that support terrorism, that would be a different matter--to be conveniently ignored.
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@Ira Cohen what do your statements about Pakistan have anything to do with broad daylight oppression by massive Indian military in a small area like Kashmir?
What do you know about Mujahideen? The ones supported by US to fight Soviet Union?
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