I watch the serious testimony of Greta - followed by a commercial to spend more on a credit card, to book flights, to get a dog sitter - in short: to continue our self-indulgence and over-consumption.
NYT, can you choose your advertizers more carefully (just in case you actually mean what you report).
13
The commenters who have the audacity to critique her ought to find something productive to do with the few minutes of time spent writing their opinion. If they did, that would be a tiny fraction of the time that Greta has spent trying to help the planet and in turn improve the lives of everyone living on it including her critics.
14
I cannot ignore the grotesque cynicism of egregiously exploiting a clearly troubled and vulnerable child to advance an eco-totalitarian political agenda, and the incongruity that few of us can whistle up a $4million, 18-metre (60ft) yacht from Prince Albert of Monaco to cross the Atlantic to assuage our enviro-guilt.
Carbon dioxide (CO2) is an invisible, colourless, odourless 0.04 per cent trace gas essential to all plant life on Earth – though that, apparently, has not stopped Greta’s mother, a well-known Left-‘Liberal’ activist called Marlena Ernman, from saying her daughter can see it. Truly have the righteous bestowed upon this girl gifts denied to the rest of us?
8
@Al M Just to clarify, you're saying that because CO2 is invisible, it is not capable of effecting any change? Like gravity? And all the climate scientists across the world who disagree with your view, they are all part of the same eco-totalitarian political agenda - is that right?
17
Wow. I suppose nothing should shock me after what's happened these past few years. Nonetheless, I'm shocked--and angry--at the commenters coming down on this intelligent, honest, and courageous young activist (imagine! visiting our crazy country!), who obviously believes in this cause with all of her heart.
First, as far as I know, the U.S. is still the number 2 carbon polluter, with a president who is actively trying to return us to number 1 and a good segment of the population still in climate denial or apathy, so please, Greta and Co., feel free to criticize and draw attention to this crisis. Thank goodness we're still a free democracy (for now) where people can do that.
It also burns me when people nitpick through the lifestyle and/or actions of those of us who are deeply concerned about the climate crisis, finger-pointing at hypocrisies. It simply distracts us (and perhaps it's meant to distract us) from this immense, complex problem we're facing--this crisis that will impact young people like Greta the most. Of course they don't have all the solutions--they're kids. We're the adults in the room; it's on us to fix this and protect them--not vilify them.
Greta, you're awesome. Keep at it!
25
Does anyone else see the personality cult being developed here? Greta is a marketing creation and our president is but another. Look how much power we give her already. And how much more Big Money has...
5
@Tournachonadar Not sure what you mean by marketing creation? And do you have any feelings or opinion on her message?
6
This entitled child who are up in Sweden doesn't understand why AC is a must in some climates. Of course she can take the high road. She gets to go back to a nice chilly country that never experiences the humid mugginess or heat of most of the world below her latitude. As for people talking loudly, she's clearly never seen her drunken, rowdy countrymen when they're on vacation in our warmer climes. Next!
6
She fails to understand that we are not doing anything to the climate. The Climate goes up or down no matter if we Humans are around. We have at best 2 decades of valid scientific information and that is not enough to tell us anything. This is a power grab by Socialist/ Democrats. I would like to know how much it cost her to take a 2-week boat ride to America and find out how she paid for it......
4
@David G Hi David, Greta is saying listen to the scientists, not her. Are you saying that the scientists do not understand? Just want to make sure you're targeting the right people with ignorance.
13
So this modern-day de Tocqueville tours the United States of America and concludes that Americans stink, debate climate change science and use too much air conditioning. Deep thinker.
6
Children aren't allowed to vote for a reason. They don't really know or understand anything.
I couldn't care less what Greta Thunberg thinks about America.
7
@Raz
By comparison Mr. Trump and his base know everything, know how to do everything, know global warming is a hoax. Actually, Ms. Thunberg sounds kinda brilliant to me. Trump and his base have no excuse for not knowing or understanding anything.
19
@Robert
She's a front.
7
I also find NYC repulsive so I don’t go there
2
BRAVE.
6
Children aren't allowed to vote for a reason. They don't know or understand anything, except superficially.
I couldn't care less what Greta Thunberg thinks about America.
4
No, don't say this young woman is marvelous. Washington State and the Pacific NW is all in behind the ideas and actions that Ms. Thunberg and Governor Inslee demand. What a loss it was to the Democratic nominating process when the arbitrary rules of the debates (circuses) forced him to drop out. His climate change proposals were game changing, and he had more legislative and executive experience than any other candidate. Save the praise, Congress. Save the praise, America. Do something. Vote like the world depends on it. Vote against the Trump McConnell climate disaster. Vote the living heck out of those feckless, destructive, ill-intentioned little darlings.
Re:
"On Tuesday, speaking to members of a Senate task force, she spoke directly to earnest lawmakers who had commended youth climate activists like her for their courage. 'Please save us your praise. We don’t want it,' she said. 'Don’t invite us here to tell us how inspiring we are without doing anything about it.' "
9
Greta is a great young adult and I support her activities. Unfortunately, the time is late and unless there's a miracle, humans are doomed--which is wonderful for planet earth.
7
If we are serious about climate issues we should put attention on scientists and other experts and have a proper debate. Glorifying a self important teenager who is clearly incapable of understanding all the issues helps noone.
3
@Toby Isn't that what Greta is saying? Like - word for word?
10
@Toby
"Self-important"? Greta Thunberg is anything but that. Either you're not paying attention, or you're off on another planet.
7
“Don’t invite us here to tell us how inspiring we are without doing anything about it” Greta Thunberg said to our lawmakers. But our lawmakers seem to want to SAY the right things while doing NOTHING.
This is THE issue of our day! And the Corporate Dems running the DNC not only won't sanction a Climate Crisis Debate, but they took the indefensible position to FORBID any Candidate from taking part in a 3rd party debate. And you must ask yourself this question: Who, exactly, does that decision serve?
The time for inaction is over. Thunberg gets this, why doesn’t the DNC?
10
This might have an inverse effect on a lot of people. She's quite annoying. The most human of flaws...As a staunch advocate for sustainability and environmental cause, I might just crank up the A/C a bit this weekend.
4
@Taylor Taylor do you mean her message is wrong because you find her annoying? And do you think you are representative of a lot of people?
9
Invitation to a dangerous, mental breakdown. I've seen it in animal rescue, too. Not healthy, or realistic.
“You will constantly feel like you are not doing enough,” she said last week. “That is a very dangerous feeling to feel especially when you are actually doing everything you can.”
2
Air conditioning is where U.S. climate policy hits the fan. Funny she should pick up on that right away. I've "weathered" a few decades of life and the contrast between my youth and today RE air conditioning is stark. Children in school, workers in offices, shoppers in stores, worshippers in churches 'back in the day' somehow managed to do what they came to do in hot months without closed windows and a thermostat on 68. If they sweated, it was just what the body does to cool itself. Now we have the "healthy elite" running outdoors in 90 degrees and paying gyms to "work up a sweat." Funny, isn't it. Not so funny when those air conditioners are pumping green house gases into the atmosphere and making the planet hotter still.
8
Pure theater, of course. Does anyone really think that a lecture from righteous 16 year old will change anyone's mind? I'd much rather hear from well-respected climatologists. This is fundamentally unserious.
4
@Joshua, Good grief! Did you not hear what she said to Congress? She said the IPCC report would be her testimony. That report was written by "well-respected climatologists" many of whom have been speaking about climate change for years. Climate change denying politicians in the U S. (mainly Republicans) and around the world aren't listening. How do you suggest we get them to pay attention and do something? At least Ms. Thunberg is trying.
26
Thank you for giving me a chance to think, the kids are all right.
6
Yes, what if climate change is a hoax, and we clean up our air, water, and environment for nothing?
11
There's a depressing number of people in these comments attacking her character. Anyone who is attacking her person instead of her argument, clearly has nothing to contribute to the conversation.
32
It reminds me of those scenes in the movie "The Killing Fields" that depict the Khmer Rouge using children to decide who is included in their plan and who gets led off into the paddies to be shot.
2
Make no mistake, Greta Thunberg is a hero. She is smart, articulate, passionate, inspirational, and absolutely fearless. How many 16 year olds can calmly appear before Congress (and cleverly rebut that dumb comment from a Republican Congressman)?
She is a powerful voice for the world to address climate change now. I would not be surprised if she wins the Nobel Peace prize one day.
It's been said that the next generation - her generation - will face the worst effects of climate change. She knows we can't wait.
I wonder how many Congressmen and women will read the IPCC report.
15
People what are you
Personally doing to lower your carbon usage. Don’t blame the messenger she’s just delivering Again the message.
3
Let's all run our air-conditioners and cool the planet!
1
Sad. . . very sad to see so much 'hating' on a 16-year old girl.
She is simply trying to make a positive impact on the world.
Sounds like she's much wiser than many presumed well educated NYT readers
19
I hear a lot of "how to tackle climate change" interesting discussions between drivers while they wait in drive-thru lanes, especially on beautiful days.
There is a tremendous amount of business air travel that could be eliminated. If a factory needs to be inspected by someone from across the country, maybe that is reasonable for now, but traveling to another city by air for a meeting that could be conducted virtually is no longer tenable. In-person sales meetings are the norm, but are they worth a year's worth of auto emissions? Just because we have always done it that way is no reason to continue. It's all a matter of cost vs benefit. If the true environmental costs of air travel were included in the ticket price, companies would find other ways of getting business done. We will all have to make significant sacrifices and changes of our way of life for there to be any hope of mitigating climate change, and even them it may not make a difference. Decreasing air travel may prove to be the least of them.
Good for Greta for, at least symbolically, setting an example.
8
There is a lovely photo of several teenage girls in Holland holding a large hand-made sign reading “Make the world GRETA again.” They we’re attending a climate strike that featured Greta Thunberg as a speaker. Greta’s actions and words are having world-wide positive impact.
8
I have a climate science question for readers. Burning fossil fuels follows the equation more or less: CH4 + 2O2 = CO2 + 2H20 (burning methane in this case) and through this mechanism C02 increases in the atmosphere. But equivalently oxygen should decrease in the atomosphere at an almost 2:1 ratio. Has there been an observed drop in oxygen levels?
If not, why not? Where is the O2 to feed the conversation to C02 coming from?
2
@OneView
The atmosphere is 21% oxygen. That's 210,000 ppm.
CO2 has increased from 300 (approx) to 400 (approx) or 100 ppm.
You are correct, the oxidation of methane consumes oxygen, but the 200 ppm decrease in oxygen from 200,000 is simply not measurable or significant.
@OneView
I'll refer you to Ms. Thunberg's remarks: Don't listen to me, listen to the scientists.
4
@Allen Wright Thanks, Allen!
I'm already watching people throw praise on her for being so brave. I think that's utterly ridiculous. Don't give her praise. Do something about it. It's not normal for a child to speak to a group of representatives from outside her own country. We have an obligation as adults to do right and insure the next generation is raised in a safe and sound environment. That she is going to such dire lengths to explain that is proof that we're not doing all that we can do. Fact of the matter is that we are failing her and her generation as adults.
What she did made perfect, logical, sense in her situation. The worst aspects of climate change isn't going to hit us. They're gonna hit her and her generation and their offspring. We need to do better to protect them. What this child is doing isn't praise worthy. It's a simple matter of fact. We should be listening to scientists. That's common sense. That we aren't is an embarrassment.
90
@Edgar
Children aren't allowed to vote for a reason. They don't know or understand anything, except superficially.
I couldn't care less what Greta Thunberg thinks about America.
9
You shouldn’t care what she thinks about America - you should care about the state of the world being left for your descendants.
(I think this is my 1st SFW “that’s what she said”.)
14
@Raz Now, that's a big reason the world is in the state it's in. Greta seems quite mature in her worldview, you're the one who needs to grow up.
26
A lot of people criticizing a kid here.
The entire point is that the brunt of the damage we’re doing to the environment is going to fall on her generation and those to come.
The kids demanding action aren’t claiming to be experts — they are putting a face on the victims-to-be and telling the adults to get moving.
74
I’m a bit surprised about the negative comments. Who could be offended by a simple request to pollute less, to consume less, be better stewards of our planet? It’s pretty easy to use less plastic, turn off the air conditioner part of the day or at least turn up the thermostat. Solar power and battery storage is dramatically improving. No one needs to use coffee pods or have so many disposable Starbucks cups. We can do better. Why the offense? She’s quite right.
82
@Qui
Let me know when you give up your car and airplane travel.
4
@M show me where the big mean hybrid car and the vicious re-useable water bottle hurt you.
23
If a sixteen-year-old girl is capable of setting off a global movement, what would responsible adults be able to accomplish, if they were to take on the responsibilities resulting from their past way of life?
120
@Sophie...Don't give the adults in the US too much credit...remember...a lot of us were foolish enough to elect the worst President in US History. Too many still support him and his anti climate policies! Sad Yes...But True !! The youth around the world will pay the price for todays adults making poor decisions regarding climate issues !
45
@Sophie the problem is that adults have far more competing priorities - particularly in the US where student loan debt is onerous.
3
This 16 year old girl is, by herself, trying to do something to make adults do something to save the planet.
Good for her and good for all the people of her generation who will, hopefully, be able to salvage what little we, the Boomer generation, leave for them.
Go Greta.
6
I'm usually not shocked by trolling, but the number of negative comments here IS shocking. This young gal is trying to raise awareness about a current, critical, global issue - that affects everyone. In my experience, the business sector is already building this information into operational models, as are municipalities. So, not sure how it becomes political or personal to so many, but their vanity, jealousy, and angry inertia are on full display. Proud ignorance isn't pretty, and it's not "can do."
16
The time is running out to do something to reverse climate change. Once we reach the tipping point (less than 8 years) of CO2 in the atmosphere, there is no amount of mitigation that will reverse the process, and potentially our extinction. Based upon the acceleration rate of the changes to date, my guess is it will be shorter than 8 years.
Continuing on as if nothing is wrong is to be part of the problem rather than the solution. Sea levels are rising, the ice caps and glaciers are melting, the permafrost is melting, releasing 3X the CO2 than any other source. The oceans are becoming more acid, where oysters and other shelled creatures can no longer create their shells as larvae. A disaster is brewing. If the crustaceous krill populations collapse, so will the ocean food chain and the oceans. Reefs are already collapsing.
I'm 66, I won't be around for the worst of it, but I restrict my trips, don't fly, recycle-reuse, ride my bicycle, walk, conserve energy, but what good is it if no one else does, or other countries don't join in?
10
It's great that there are teenagers who can think of something bigger than themselves, but, they are still teenagers. They haven't yet had to make their way in the world alone, having to make the sometimes necessary compromises to eat, and to keep a shelter over their heads. The fact that she take the UN climate report seriously is reflective of that in that she shows no political wisdom about the body politic in the U.S. On this subject, I would rather hear the adults.
11
@David Godinez you would rather listen to the adults?? do you not see that trump and the republicans are taking this country backwards whereas the rest of the world is moving forward? are these the adults you place your trust in for yourself and your progeny?
3
@David Godinez Hey David, I'm curious as to your comment - Greta said don't listen to me, listen to the scientists - who are adults. Is that who you mean? Or do you mean the adults that you feel she should listen too, who do not listen to the adult scientists?
3
It's interesting to read the criticisms about Ms. Thunberg in the comments. She is at least doing something. She's trying, while for some of us, the best we can do is put her down in the comments section of a newspaper. Imagine yourself being a 16-year-old girl terrified of the future the elders of this world are leaving for you, your family your friends and potential future family. What would you be doing? Her passion has brought her into the public consciousness despite the odds against her. No, her efforts and ideas are not perfect but like everything else they will evolve. And most importantly, maybe she will become an inspiration for other young people who feel they are helpless to influence the assault against our beloved planet, and ultimately ourselves. We are fortunate to have people like Ms. Thunberg in our world. It gives me hope.
16
@IJW: Do you think she did this all by herself? Did her parents help her at all to make this happen? Or did she just spring, full-blown, from the head of the gods?
And if she were poor or if she were a black teenager from Africa, would she have this level of attention - even if she was saying the exact same thing? I doubt it.
She is a nice Swedish girl who's surrounded by a lot of adults who made her trip to our 'smelly' city a reality. BTW, in Sweden is it considered good manners to insult the city you've just arrived in?
She has a ton of people whose job it is to keep her in the public eye.
And she is as self-serious as any 16-year-old can be: she and her generation are going to change the world. It was ever thus!
I wonder what she'll be doing 20 years from now.
4
@L, tackling a problem this large could never be done by one's self, sixteen years old or eighty, rich or poor, Sweedish or Chinese. We'll need everyone's help with this one and it's not actually a negative but a necessity.
2
It's too little, too late. And the vast majority of humans don't even want to do that. It's pretty much hopeless.
2
I think Greta has a very smart way of going about this. People keep demanding from young activists that they should give them all the details. That they should give them all the solutions, but these is not need to ask the activists.
All we need to do is to actually start to listen to the science, and start enacting proven policies. None of this is a mystery to be solved. All that is needed is political will to do something.
13
While I applaud what the young woman is doing, I condemn her stunt with the sailboat. Considering over a dozen people had to fly to facilitate that trip (taking the boat back, for example), she is in fact setting a bad example with her PR stunt.
How about next time she hitch a ride with a ship from a line that is actively trying to cut emissions, highlighting that and perhaps educating the captain and crew on how to be greener-yet during the trip? The ship is going to sail anyway - she can offset trivially, and not be a hypocrite in the process.
7
@Mtnman1963
Flying the crew seems to have been something they had to do due to short deadline.
These things will always be a tradeoff. I don't think Greta flying would have been a good alternative. Given how vocal she had been about herself not flying, she couldn't possibly fly over.
We will never achieve a green shift, if we let to opponents play by any rules they like while we drown ourselves in purity tests.
As the world currently works, there is no way reduce CO2 emissions without increasing CO2 emissions.
Imagine a world where all energy comes from coal plants, and you want to cut CO2 emissions. So you start building windmills and solar panels. All of those things will cause increase in CO2 emissions in the short term.
We cannot obsess about short term effects. We must see the big picture.
8
@Erik E. People only buy the big picture when the messenger is credible. Her whole trip is shot full of holes with her carbon math. It could have been done better AND add up.
4
Hey, Greta, thanks for encouraging students to take a day off from school to, well, mostly hang out. Very clever of you.
Unless she cures cancer or Alzheimer's, I'm not taking advice from a self-important teenager. (And yeah, she is self-important. The more faux-humble she sounds, the more self-important she comes across as being.)
Also, let me know when she lives through an entire Manhattan summer without air conditioning - preferably on the top floor of a walk-up building - then maybe we can talk.
11
@L
> Unless she cures cancer or Alzheimer's, I'm not taking advice from a self-important teenager.
Ah such silly advice from a teenager: "listen to the science," who in their right mind does that? A grown man listen to his guts first of course!!
> And yeah, she is self-important.
And how do think you come across? A condescending arrogant cynical adult? Ironically you don't have a very grownup response to her. The grown up thing would be to avoid ad-hominem attacks and focus on the issues.
> The more faux-humble she sounds
Don't be so quick to judge people with different cultural background than yourself. Maybe this seems fake to you as an American because it is uncommon to be humble in America. However it is a much valued trait in Scandinavia.
> Also, let me know when she lives through an entire Manhattan summer without air conditioning
Hmmm I don't believe she EVER said you should not use air conditioning. This is your interpretation from an American cultural context. You guys speak a lot between the lines. Nordics are more direct and plain spoken. Unless she says it explicitly don't assume she is saying it.
I know this has bitten me multiple times in the US. People thinking I am saying things I am not saying.
Finally it is not impossible to live without air conditioning. People have done that for centuries. You build houses accordingly. Lookup earth ships.
4
Sure, I'll listen to a foreign teenager tell me how to fix the US problems. Give me a break. If the USA can't resolve it's own issues without foreign "advice" (criticism) then we deserve to suffer the consequences.
6
@Donald
If we don't suffer the consequences our children will
2
@Donald Does it matter where she is from? Doesn't global climate change impact the whole planet? Can nations solve climate change by themselves, or is collective action better?
5
Except the rest of the world suffers if the US cannot reduce its CO2 emissions
4
Hate to dip a little fly in Greta's ointment, but Swedish beliefs regarding climate change are only slightly different that those in the US.
More people in Sweden believe climate change is caused by humans (64% vs 49%) but more people in the US believe climate change is a threat (63% vs 56%). (Data ten years old, but still)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_opinion_by_country
On the other hand, a more recent limited poll found the US to have less belief in man-mad climate change, but still ahead of Sweden's fossil fuel producing neighbor: https://www.statista.com/chart/19380/yougov-survey-humans-responsible-for-climate-change/
But yes, air conditioner responsibility is something we should all observe. It's really not the worst thing to open a window or to be hot once in a while!
5
@Clotario
I have no idea how those guys do statistics, but those results are not credible at all. Only 35% of Norwegian believing in man made climate change is complete bogus.
It goes against all previous measures of this in Norway in the past. Latest Norwegian study of this says on 1 out of 10 Norwegian think climate change isn't man made. 70% are sure it is man made. 17% are not sure.
https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/norge/2019/07/20/195594618/ny-meningsmaling-7-av-10-nordmenn-tror-mennesker-star-bak-klimaendringer
If you actually live in Norway, you would know that is the most sensible result. It fits with the experience I think most Norwegians have. Essentially all Norwegian political parties accept man made climate change.
Publicly denying climate change as is popular among American conservatives is unheard of in Norway. You only find a few people on the fringe of right wing populist parties who do that. You got to be on the fringe of the fringe.
I have spent most of my professional life in the oil industry in Norway. If climate denial was a common thing in Norway I am pretty sure I would have heard about it. It is quite a rare thing even in the oil industry.
Anyway this makes me question all the rest of the statistics. You can just watch the whole news environment in the US and compare to Norther Europe. I think Greta has a pretty good characterization of the different attitude in the US. It is very much about "belief" in the US.
7
@Erik E
Living my whole life in the US --and dealing with Americans on a daily basis-- I would make the same generalization about Americans. Unfortunately those pesky statistics that say otherwise.
Facts have an annoying way of disrupting beliefs!
Regardless, however offended you might be about a less than heroic portrayal of Norwegians, the comment wasn't a bash on Norway. It was stating that GT's comment might be a nice summary of conventional wisdom as she perceives it but ignores a real debate about these issues which goes on in every country, and that it is far from "accepted as fact" in her country.
2
@Clotario
As someone who grew up on Sweden and has lived in NYC for 21 years, I can confidently say that Americans are much less interested in doing something about the climate change than Swedes. To be honest, the millennials here in NYC would rather use 10 plastic cups a day than rinse a reusable cup because they're afraid of germs. It's appalling. The older generations are even worse.
In Sweden, and I assume it's the same in Norway, the great majority is very aware and there's even such a thing as travel-shaming (if you do fly anywhere, don't tell anyone.)
Americans (in general) hate to be criticized, but sometimes you just have to listen and take responsibility for your own actions. We can all do better.
Here's a more recent source of statistics, although Norway is not singled out, but part out Europe:
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2015/11/05/global-concern-about-climate-change-broad-support-for-limiting-emissions/
3
Imagine a Swedish teen addressing congress. How many American teens can speak fluently English.
6
I'd just like the president to speak good english. He should be embarrassed when a foreign teenager is so much more fluent in english than he is.
2
Boutique activism is worthless. I recall how 45 years ago I met a lovely girl from France at University in New England, thinking she must be happy to be here I asked her, "What do you think of America?" expecting to play off of her compliments to make some headway with her toward a relationship. She answered me, "You waste so much." That was the end of that. Today of course France has it's own problems including a government run by the Davos Investor Class, Neoliberal toadying, endless nuclear power production. But you can still get a nice cheese.
7
It’s simply absurd that we should listen to scientists. After all, what do they know?
4
The demographic reality clock is ticking and relatively soon all the greedy and scientifically ignorant American Baby Boomers of the .001% who run this country through their control of the Republican Party will have died-off and the U.S. will then be able to join the modern world to help move the human race forward on climate and other issues important to the survival of humankind.
3
@Cowboy Marine; You seem unfamiliar with actuarial statistics. I can assure you that the Baby Boomers are not planning to all die off so quickly!
Given that the youngest Boomers are only 55, you're going to be waiting a long, long time to be rid of them all! And by then it will be clear that GenX and the Millennials couldn't 'save the planet' either.
BTW, in terms of people being 'scientifically ignorant' take a look at which generations are the rabid anti-vaxxers! Hint: it's not the Boomers.
7
...my hero...
2
I find her insufferable. She has little experience in this world that applies to billions of people.
10
@Andrew
> I find her insufferable. She has little experience in this world that applies to billions of people.
That is why she says "don't listen to me! Listen to the scientists!"
How often does she have to repeat that? It is stunning how dense people are. I mean are you listening to her on mute, while working yourself up to a frenzy?
7
Lol. "Her remarks lasted barely a minute. “And then I want you to take real action.” Great road map.
5
You will have to pry my A/C out of my cold dead hands.
8
@William And that is exactly why this girl's generation will suffer massively.
4
A lot of commenters here seem quite offended by her delivery style more than what she's saying (which is the truth.)
Perhaps we would all do better of we spent more time with people on the autistic spectrum. She's able to deliver her message in a straightforward way without worrying about how she's perceived. Wish I could say the same for all the others we listen to all day!
16
@AB That's the appeal to many of DJT. Remember? He "tells it like it is." He "says the things I think but can't say."
1
While I respect Ms. Thunberg's crusade, she may want to check what her beloved Sweden's number one export is: refined petroleum.
6
@JS
> she may want to check what her beloved Sweden's number one export is: refined petroleum.
No it isn't. That is number one commodity export. Number one export is actually cars.
And even if it was, so what? Greta began her crusade in Sweden, trying to get Swedish politicians to listen to her.
It seems you are somehow implying that Greta is absolving Sweden of any need to engage in a green shift.
4
@JS Where on earth did you get that statistic?
1
This is ludicrous. Who Are the PR people behind this kid?
If she built the boat or bought boat she came on I would be impressed. But who is fronting the money for this charade.
I am tired of Congress and the media Kowtowing to made up celebrities like her and telling us what they think.
Climate change is a problem but I have no idea why I listen to this kid.
9
Nice idealism from this young woman. And a great feat to have crossed the Atlantic in that manner.
However, the energy used to build the high-tech sailboat probably has the equal impact as an average lifetime of airline flights. Sails are made of carbon-based materials, as likely is the hull of her boat (or some variant thereof), not to mention all of the rigging, etc, etc.
Probably nothing more than an equal sum.
Meanwhile, the biggest culprit of climate change -- too many people on the planet -- goes undiscussed.
Zero population growth should be the goal. It was nearly 50 years ago, and now, owing to the politically-correct far-left, it is not considered a topic of polite conversation.
Why not?
5
One reason, those people are already born. We have to fix climate change with 8 billion people whether we like it or not.
3
@dmckj "owing to the politcally-correct far-left"? You mean the anti-abortion, anti-birth control, anti-Planned Parenthood "far-left"?
2
For all the anti-science trolls here, someone born in the first half of the 20th Century said it best:
These children that you spit on as they try to change their world ...
Are immune to your consultations - they're quite aware of what they're going through.
14
I'm curious to know how what the carbon footprint of building a solar yacht iswithout purchasing offsets. Somehow, I think it did more environmental damage than 1/500th of a trip by an already-existing jumbo jet. Climate change is an existential problem, but these kinds of gimmicks don't make me take her seriously.
7
@Jon Nice try but she didn't purchase that boat. The Malizia sailing team offered to transport her because they support her cause as any sane person would. The boat already existed before she sailed on it so her using it did not add any climate impact.
18
@Leah: Yet *somebody* built the boat, and it definitely has a climate impact just from that.
@Jon. So true. I also want to know how she squares the circle when it comes to owning her horse and the environmental damage that it entails. I can appreciate the science behind climate change but the "holier than thou" attitude expressed by some (as represented by Greta and her ilk) is hard to swallow for the rest of us.
1
When you are young and don't have to work for a living mummy or daddy will ferry you about and buy the iphone to summon your driver.
Greta is too principled to fly and her voyage on a one of a kind solar powered million dollar yacht is noteworthy. But it goes unmentioned that people flew on non solar powered aircraft to retrieve it.
What alternatives exist for adults who have to drive to work to support a family and can't afford a Tesla let alone a Tesla buyer's old trade-in?
3
Educated Northern Europeans talk softly, accept science, and clearly, sharply express views because...they're not Americans. So her experience over here should first be considered as an ethnographic account.
Yet it should also be noted that many US citizens possess Northern European culture, too. Their own semantic error, therefore, is to call themselves 'american'; it's a behavioral designation that they've ostensibly rejected.
One can also understand the photo as a dire warning of sorts: as much as the S of L can stand for the positive freedoms of new opportunities, it can also represent the rejection of all that is European.
Ultimately, then, the Lady in the Harbor can represent an attitude of refusing to listen and going one's own way. It's sort of like a wayward teenager who refuses to learn enough to grow up.
1
@bill harris So I assume you are one of those possessing superior "Northern European culture?" Too bad I cannot join your special club, being of Eastern European and Middle Eastern extraction. Thanks for telling mere where I don't belong. Jeez!
We don't get a do-over on climate change.
We have a closing window of time in which to act.
Why can't people understand this?
It's now or never folks.
And half measures are worthless.
Greta gets it.
102
@Redpath The window closed at least 30 years ago.
2
@Redpath Lots of young people "get it." It isn't easy turning a whole international economic system that is based on burning fossil fuels, around. It means entities that are huge profit winners will become entities that are huge profit losers. That is why nothing changes.
7
Maybe if she wants to pay off my house and student debt so I can afford to move somewhere cooler I'll give up my A/C. I mostly keep the heat down in the winter, though.
7
Very inspirational and very promising
For the world to see and possibly to breath in.
4
Let's use cheaper, job creating, sustainable energy and KEEP our air conditioning. It can be done, and it's already being done.
5
She's right. She's brave. She's worth listening to. Let's all go out and take action tomorrow. Find a high school to stand with the students who walk out and bring a sign. TAKE ACTION!
9
@RCJCHC: Some of us have to go to work to earn money to pay our bills. We don't get to play hooky on a whim the way school kids do.
3
When we have ruined this planet, all those so seemingly important matters will become rather obsolete...
1
@Alcheya: Do let me know when putting food on the table and having a roof over our heads will "become rather obsolete"!
2
I watched the Noah interview, I can’t understand for the life of me why the audience and host kept laughing, she wasn’t funny she was talking about the 6th mass extinction and the climate crisis. Nothing to laugh about there. She said NYC smells bad from pollution and everyone thought it was hilarious. Somehow the US media figures out a way to turn someone who is dead serious into light entertainment so we can just dismiss what she says and go on as usual. Total fail on Noah’s part.
21
@DJM Clapping seals.
I don’t understand why people are demeaning Greta Thunberg because she comes from means. That is irrelevant. I believe she began her “crusade” by protesting alone, each day in Sweden, with her sign in front of the Parliament. Her persistence was rewarded by others joining her. She has proved the power of the individual. Her opinions are informed by the science not by money. What should scare politicians is the example she sets.
16
@B.L. I do not wish to demean Ms Thunberg, only to point out the "bad optics" of trotting out a teenager in what comes off as a managed publicity stunt, what with appearances with Trevor Noah etc. Even if this young lady is a genuine policy expert in her own right, it doesn't come off that way, given the superficiality of her media quotes.
4
@B.L.: I don't know much about the culture of Sweden, but I *do* know that if I'd told my parents I was starting a 'crusade' and would be skipping school to go protest, they'd have brought a very quick end to my 'crusade'!
1
Brava, Ms. Thunberg!
And thanks for reminding us all that one is either part of the solution or part of the problem.
4
Democrats say they want to slow climate change but not one Democrat Presidential candidate has said that they turned off the air conditioning in their homes and offices this summer and walked or took public transportation other than cabs or Uber, to work and other activities. I guess only the common people should do something for the environment.
6
Having seen some of her testimony, it was apparent rather quickly that she was smarter than a lot of the questioners. She appeared to be more of adult than many on the panel.
16
I'll turn off my AC when she turns off her home heating.
Don't get me wrong, as a scientist I believe climate change is man-made (and woman-made), but even when the "little things" help, we should think bigger. It is not about being uncomfortable, it's about doing things right.
7
@Numas I'm sitting in my office swathed in wool. It is colder in my office in the summer than it is in the winter. Concerns about AC use are less about private use and more that businesses don't regulate their energy use as they should.
5
@Numas Could it be that she only means we turn it down? If we all sacrifice a little, we can reduce the impact. We don't need to give it up - just conserve.
2
@Cami, I know what you mean, but that is more a problem with current technology than anything else. My office is cold because there are only a few control zones in the building. But if my office is OK, I can't work in the laboratory, because it gets too hot because of all the instrumentation and it is in the same AC zone. We need to do things smarter, not harder.
1
This piece left out an exchange that I thought was most remarkable. Thunberg was asked by Graves (R) (paraphrasing), what would you say to an American who asks why we should take strong action on climate change when China, the world's largest emitter, does little. Thunberg replied, “I am from Sweden, a small country, and it’s the same argument: ‘Why should we do something? Look at the U.S.’ It’s being used against you as well.”
16
Like a parent scolding a child, Ms Thunberg is calling out undisciplined and selfish adults. What she knows that we adults throwing a tantrump ignore is that she has no choice - she'll experience the start of the worst as the rest of us evade the consequences of our sub-infantile immature behavior. Leaders on both side of the aisle offer the same ole solution - thoughts and prayers for future generations.
The symbolism of taking a day off school is poignant - what's the point learning from adults while they leave them a decimated world.
Most adults, myself included, need the forceful prodding to do better and consider the future we leave to our descendants. Hopefully Ms Thunberg does not outgrow her forceful and compellingly urgent stance as we have ultra-greedy, ultra-selfish and ultra-maliciously vindictive leaders intentionally accelerating the trashing of the only world we have before they die evading all consequences.
"Xiuhtezcatl" what a cool name! I learned a bit of the Nahuatl language as a kid in, of all places, the American School in Mexico City, learning a truly amazing pre-Christian history. The adults of the era were playing with Mutually Assured Destruction. Will we have a future after trump's environmental version of MAD?
The "children’s climate lawsuit" should seek monetary damages - Restitution Now - from the adults since the profits from inflicting long term damage to their future is being pocketed now. Make it an economic choice for the adult polluters.
4
@PAN: Speak for yourself, please. As a fully functioning and well-educated, well-informed adult, I do not need 'forceful prodding' to do what is right.
BTW, I want my restitution NOW for everything that was done 'wrong' by the generations before me. Where do
I go to pick up my share of that money?
1
This precious youngster has been overexposed photographically in the pop media for months. By U.S. standards, she's still a child. Adults calling her their savior? Has every ethical standard of responsible child protection finally been breached? Shame on Green Peace for starting the ball rolling on this.
5
Global climate change is here; there's little that can be done to stop it. As a former governor of Texas once said, just relax and enjoy it.
Less air-conditioning? Why I never! This is America! Greta you have gone too far! How can we cool the planet without air-conditioning! Like, isn't that obvious?
4
Has this little girl lectured the Obamas?
The Wall Street Journal recently reported the Obamas' purchase of a 15 Million dollar home on Martha's Vineyard. Greta needs to remind them about the crisis of eroding shoreline and how we all need to minimize our carbon footprints.
2
@Upper West Side
i believe her remarks are addressing all american citizens obama included.
7
Stand on a Lexington Avenue express during rush hour, and then tell me whether AC is a good thing.
5
Why wasn't this the lead article? Why isn't climate the lead article every day? That and nuclear weapons issues, also critical?
I know: because we don't want to read about them. So you say.
2
Like Greta, I demand truths are told and the truth as it stands is this: The United States and the whole world will only be saved when climate catastrophes start taking out whole infrastructures and swaths of (white) humans. By then these youth will have moved up the ladder. THEY will save the earth and I pray they do before it is too late.
2
@canoe: Yeah, yeah, every generation is going to 'save' the world. The last group that actually did that was the generation that won World War II.
1
@L Try to cheer up. Then, re-read my post more slowly. Mouth the words and squint if you have to.
Here are 4 great lessons for all combatants in the political arena, delivered by the example of a 16-year-old. And after yesterday's self-serving circus act by both Republicans and Democrats, at the Lewandowski hearing, there is much to be learned on both sides of the aisle:
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!
Elected officials are elected to SERVE THE PEOPLE!!!
Elected officials are not elected to ADVANCE THEIR OWN INTERESTS!!!!
TRUTH MATTERS.
STOP POSTURING AND DO SOMETHING!!!!
3
She should go to China and India. We are no longer the biggest threat
5
@Scott There's some truth to this. Especially when India's billionaire Ananda has just bought the biggest coal field's in Australia and will be importing that coal to India and Bangla Desh. Shame on India and Modi (its leader) and the rest of the developed world, natch.
1
We’re still the biggest. Both China and India are investing billions in renewable energy
2
@Scott
Only the second biggest threat. Whoppeee!
(India, by the way is far behind the US in terms of being a threat. Sorry.)
1
She comes here how? And Germany still uses lots of coal. Maybe she should start in her own backyard before lecturing America.
4
@M except she's Swedish.
6
@M
Except she did. See Wikipedia for a list of her speeches (includes Berline, btw.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg
2
"American lawmakers would do well to read the latest science on the threats posed by climate change."
Well, yeah. Duh. Oh, except for the fact that lawmakers don't read and, since they have never taken science classes they wouldn't grasp a word of what they are reading.
I cringe every time I hear the expression, "believe in science change." The science is undeniable. Climate change is a fact not subject to whims of one's beliefs. No one ever discusses the question of whether a dropped rock will fall to the ground. No on relies on their "gut" feelings about gravity. The proof of greenhouse gasses causing climate change is just as compelling, but understanding it requires just a tad of science education.
But Americans have contempt for "elitist" subjects like science and feel that their independence is being removed by suggesting that the laws of nature are not subject to opinion.
And, if lawmakers, including Trump, insist on shunning science because they might have to think then they must accept the word of true experts, the consensus of 10.000 scientists.
The Trump solution, accepted by our Republican Senate, is to make climate change reports and discussions administratively unacceptable. Cute, but not a alternative to facts.
(A PhD in Physics.)
10
What a strong, able young woman Greta Thunberg is! I think she is quite admirable with her ideas and idealism and her representation of something perhaps quite different from teens in this country. Thank you, Greta. And your parents, too.
5
Is global warming happening; of course it is. The results will produce catastrophic conditions causing death and mass population movement. Parking your car and turning off your air conditioning will have zero impact on what nature dictates. It is the effects of the coming changes that humans will be dealing with as millions of refugees try to flee to more temperate parts of the world. That is the issue. Not trying to stop what is inevitable. Greta is unknowingly part of a political movement not a climatic one.
1
I admire and love Greta Thunberg, but to the question "What do you think people can do about climate change?", she could have answered:
"Tread lightly.
Understand and accept that everyone is personally, directly responsible. Every single action and decision we make has consequences outside our own mind and body. Each one of us must constantly monitor her/his behavior in order to minimize impact on the environment. Don't buy that. Turn off the light. Easy on the pedal. Stop flying. After a while, it becomes second nature, and enjoyable."
10
Bravo to Greta.
We do have young people in this country who have spoken out. After all, the future is their world. Older generations are leaving them a terrible challenge, dealing with our failures.
How dare a Swedish sixteen year old presume to advise a foreign nation?
A better question might be how has she been given wide notice in our press when there are numerous groups of citizens here, including respected scientists and educators, who have been speaking loudly for many years, with valid evidence, about the same subject.
If Greta shames us, the deniers are the first to find ways to discredit or laugh at her.
7
" ... and a little child shall lead them"
In the biblical account it doesn't mean that a child will lead adults; it refers to a time of judgement when wild creatures will be able to be led by a child, regardless I feel the adage is appropriate use when referring to this child, for she is still a child, wise way beyond her years.
Humanity should listen, and hear her message.
14
Greta speaks for so many who agree with scientists about global warming and climate change. Amazing that a 16-year-old girl knows more about the world, science and climate than our current President. Kudos to Greta for standing up for what is right; there is hope that things will change with youth like Greta speaking for the planet.
19
@Michele506a: I'm not so impressed b/c it doesn't take a lot in order to know more than Trump on any topic!
1
@L that is a good point!
We are decades late in responding to this crisis. Here in the Pacific Northwest the western red cedars are dying en masse. Summers are too dry and long for them to survive. The changes in the climate here in just the last fifteen years are so dramatic I shudder at what the next fifteen years will bring. Future generations will never forgive us for what we have done to our beautiful, blue earth.
31
This young Swedish girl wants us to listen to the scientists. That is a mistake. We should review the science and not put our faith in the scientists. And if we look at the science and consider the facts and history, there is reason to conclude that global warming hysteria is s consequence of anecdotes and not actual science. Science and the historical record indicates that it is no warmer today in the US than it was in the 1930s and 1950s—when CO2 levels were significantly lower. And it is a fact that there is very little historic (or even current) data about the temperature of large parts of the world, including much of Africa and Asia or the oceans, meaning that the temperatures are modeled, not actual. So contrary to the advice of this young girl, we should trust the science and not the scientists.
4
@ehillesum
Accurate temperature records for many places around the world have existed for about 130 years. The first accurate ocean temperature measurements were made by Amundsen on his way to Antarctica. Atmospheric CO2 has been measured directly and very accurately for over 50 years, and can be measured indirectly, but very accurately from ice cores going back thousands of years. As you mention, CO2 levels were lower 70 years ago. What you don't mention is that atmospheric and ocean temperatures must rise as CO2 increases. This is completely predictable and irrefutable. By the way, there is one laboratory and test site that can't be shut down: the planet Venus. Atmosphere 96.5% CO2; surface temperature, about 864 Fahrenheit.
14
@PJTramdack. With all due respect, there are huge gaps in the quality and quantity of temperature measurements around the world. And how one can read the history of the world for the past hundred years with its wars and genocide and disruption and conclude that the historical temp data we have is accurate and comprehensive enough to support today’s hysteria is a mystery to me and others who care about the earth and scientific and historical truth.
@PJTramdack you are citing research and modeling, not science. Science requires a testable hypothesis and reproducible initial conditions for experiments that confirm others’ results.
1
The historical figure Greta most reminds me of is Joan of Arc. Her inspiration is in her blunt, direct message, but also in her almost uncanny manner of expression. Watching Greta I can understand how a young woman could lead a great army.
28
Greta Thunberg was on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah the other night. She talked about climate change and the thing she said that stood out was that "Europeans believe climate change is real. It appears that a lot of Americans do not."
26
@susan 69 percent of Swedes believe in climate change.
59 precent of Americans believe in climate change.
-Pew research survey 2019
1
The US is a very wasteful society just look at the three best selling vehicle every year, 3 full size trucks. And it seems like everyone has a lead foot. NYC at least has a mass transit system that must use less energy than personal cars for everyone. And large apartment buildings and condos use less energy.
13
@John_ConEdison still owns and operates a steam grid downtown! NOT efficient.
Thank you Greta for what you are doing.
Renewable energy
Re-join the climate control movement
Be better people
These are some of the things that will make America a better place and a leader of nations.
I doubt the USA will be up to the task.
10
What a humiliating situation for the US Congress where a 16 year old Swedish teenager must sail across the Atlantic to set them straight on climate change and remind them of science.
The children of this world will have to suffer with our consequences. Maybe we should listen to them.
95
@JeffB Yes, the children will have to stop getting a new smart phone once a year.
@JeffB
No maybe about it.
I’m tickled by all these comments. Here in CA, we have actually had a mild summer. Last year we had 45 days over 100 degrees. I just heard an NPR report yesterday about Arizona having 100 days over 100 and now its having days over 110, topping out at 122 recently. Clearly, climate change is wreaking havoc on us all. I am thankful for
A/C when we need it (frankly it’s too expensive to use everyday, costing us about $20/day, which really adds up), but we keep it set at 77, so it’s not exactly cold. We have ceiling fans, and the most efficient regular fans, close windows, follow the sun, outdoor shades. It certainly helps, but it’s not perfect.
It’s always struck me as crazy that every building in the Southwest isn’t outfitted with solar panels, mandated by the energy companies, who can do practically anything they want with the governments ok. What a waste.
I fear activists like Ms Thunberg would probably shrug and say “you shouldn’t live in a desert”. Uh, yeah, that’s true. But we are here and need to figure out what we can do to make living easier on us, and the planet.
9
@Suzanne public health advocates are at odds with the sneering European view of AC. The problem is that the US has areas where AC is necessary but heat is often optional. If you wouldn't advocate that a cold climate like Sweden do without any heating, don't demand that people in the US do without AC. That said, there is absolutely NO REASON that every store and public building be so cold in the summer that a sweater or jacket is necessary, and every home be kept at 68F - just as it is unnecessary to heat homes to 75F in the winter. Cooling to 80F and heating to 65F are adequate to protect health. Furthermore, we need extensive campaigns in our southern areas to install solar to offset AC use and to insulate homes to increase efficiency - just like we see weatherization campaigns in northern states. Europeans often do not understand our climate variations - they need to be educated on the health impacts of their mantras, but we need to up our game when it comes to efficiency.
13
@Multimodalmama
too true. I'm currently sitting in my New England office with a sweater on, a space heater, and a scarf on because the A/C is still on, despite a morning temp of 50.
2
@Suzanne I don't think you understand Ms. Thunberg's message. She's not advocating leaving the planet and breathing stardust. You're fine in the desert.
1
One thing many of us who need to drive cars can do is to buy an electric or plug-in hybrid vehicle. There are federal and sometimes state incentives available to subsidize the cost. Increased sales of such vehicles will send a market message to manufacturers and politicians that this is what consumers want across the nation, not just in California. I have a plug-in hybrid and I love it. I’m able to do most of my city driving on battery alone and only have to fill up the gas tank for the occasional out of town trip.
7
Do you know how electricity is generated?
I'm not saying that electric and hybrid cars aren't better than full size SUV's and trucks, but people also need to realize how electricity is generated.
4
@Artemis. Where I live, 50% of the electricity supply is renewable (and growing fast), and I have an option to buy 100% renewable for just a little more.
Even if you drive an electric car driven by fossil fuels, the carbon cost is only about half that of driving a gas-driven car due to the inefficiency of the internal combustion engine.
1
@Artemis
Our local power generation source mix is approx. 30% renewable, 45% nat gas, 25% coal. Even when using fossil fuel power generation, electric vehicles produce fewer greenhouse gas emissions than conventional vehicles because power plants are more efficient than small internal combustion engines.
Also, plug-in vehicles produce less or no CO, NOx or particulates that are harmful to public health.
Since the transportation sector is the source of about 30% of global greenhouse gas emissions, but vital to our economies, we must make use of low-emitting technologies in order to mitigate climate disruption.
GRETA ROCKS!
America is a nation of both great excess (Trump and his megalomaniacal oligarchs) and great deprivation (our huge poor population which is ignored and marginalized by the former).
We waste far too much of our resources - we drive inefficient, polluting cars (e.g. HUGE SUVs with one passenger); throw out enough food to feed another country; pollute our air; drill for oil everywhere we can make a penny; throw REPAIRABLE things away rather than fix then; and so on. ALL OF THIS CONTRIBUTES TO OUR DYSTOPIAN FUTURE and that four children and our planet.
Greta is correct, and I am so proud of her. She sees what so many of US refuse to in our arrogance and entitlement. She certainly does not remember WW II or its aftermath - I do. America worked together with what little we had. We darned socks, fixed our cars, rode bicycles, etc. We COULD do much now, but will we?
I doubt it. The news cycle and "convenient memory" is very short. Listen to your kids, especially about gun control!
16
Excuse me, but this is precisely the wrong way to win friends for the environmental movement. Putting up a European teenager backed by wealthy show-biz parents (and no-doubt a team of well-paid publicists) as an "expert" wagging her finger at ignorant Americans, smells a lot worse than does New York City.
23
@Peter Blau wealthy show biz parents? Wow. You need a good reading session, dear.
2
Why on earth do we care what a 16-year-old thinks?
12
@JoanP
because they inherit our mess. We, if we were decent people, would care what all people think. We need to keep learning and we can learn from young and old alike. Wow. I can't believe someone would even ask why we should care! Saddest comment I've read.
9
@JoanP because what she says is right
5
@JoanP. Because its her future and her right to clean air and water and animals and trees that we are destroying. Geez.
7
And a child shall lead them? It takes a 16 year old kid to tell Americans what a wasteful, smelly, unsustainable civilization we created, reminding us that the average Joe (or Donald) does NOT know more than climate scientists.
Meanwhile the bogus POTUS wants to lower auto emission standards so we use MORE oil and the fatcat fossil fuel industry gets even richer.
Welcome to insane MAGA Trump World.
21
If the NYT commenters were in charge, we'd not only be fighting global warming but negotiating our way to peace with our "enemies." And working to end inequality all over the world.
Thanks, commenters.
5
@betty durso What's your plan Betty?
1
@Doug
Identify those who are contributing most to global warming worldwide. Fossil fuel companies, rainforest destroyers, and the investors who are reaping profits while the people suffer must pay a penalty sufficient to make them stop. Movements like the Green New Deal and the green parties in Europe are gathering strength as the word gets out. Greta Thunberg is rallying the youth around the world.
As for the problems of endless war and inequality, I refer you to Bernie Sanders.
2
Another self-proclaimed expert castigating everyone about the latest cause du jour.
I wonder how she stays warm in winter.
12
Here are some easy things you can do: get rid of your giant SUV (liberals) and drive an efficient or electric car. Eat less meat. Air conditioning to 78, or skip it for fans. Insulate your house. Fly a little less. Believe scientists when they tell you that climate change causes climate instability, and the size of fires, hurricanes and floods are because of human-caused climate change. Understand that the economics of disasters and human migration will crush the momentary highs of the current economy. And once you believe scientists, try to figure how our businesses can create products that mitigate climate change, or even better, help remove carbon from the air. These are simple things that everyone can do, and should fit every political calculation.
14
@francine lamb. Pretty sure you have that backwards about the large SUVs… It’s pretty much liberals that are driving the electric cars already. Didnt see too many prius when i was in montana recently but there are TONS of them in LA...
2
@francine lamb Why do you assume that all liberals drive large SUVs and they are the only ones who do? Do you know that 38% of hybrid owners are self proclaimed Democrats while only 14% are Republicans? (Scarborough Research).
4
@francine lamb
Um....How do you know that every owner of a giant SUV is a liberal ?
I don't own one, but I gather that giant SUV's usually cost more to run than smaller cars. Their owners are more likely to be richer...and, judging from traditional political info, more likely to be politically conservative.
Just wondering. (FYI - our local Liberal M.P. drives an electric car).
3
Ms. Thunberg hitched a ride on a sailboat with solar panels and auxiliary engine only used for emergency.. She is very aware of her carbon footprint. However, most of us are not as informed and meticulous. Voluntary efforts will only slightly reduce greenhouse pollution. Public policy is essential and the single most effective and efficient policy is putting a price on pollution. Then, by returning all the proceeds of pollution fees to the people (everyone getting the same proportion of the collected fees), there is no net cost to most families- in fact, most families would come out financially ahead (a few wealthy, high-polluting folks would pay more than is returned). This is the "carbon fee and dividend" approach championed by free-market economists. It may be contrasted to the current subsidy that the less well off pay (in the form of the consequences of greenhouse pollution) to the wealthy who produce the most pollution.
19
@Doug "Voluntary efforts will only slightly reduce greenhouse pollution." That's Elizabeth Warren's line; it seems to get the average person off the hook which isn't correct or helpful. A couple things would have a big effect. Not having children is the most impactful thing most young people can do; going vegan is something we can all do. And with enough of us cutting back on the purchase of news goods and energy consumption, we can make a difference.
1
@Rick Bogle It's Warren's line because it is correct. I applaud your move to go vegan, but most people are not going to eat less beef (which produces a lot of pollution) until it costs more. Experience shows that greenhouse pollution does not go down substantially without good public policy Charging for the damage done is the most efficient way to incentivize polluting less.
@Concerned Citizen
Think about it. The price of fossil fuel energy goes up. Ouch, I'll drive less, buy a car instead of an SUV, open the window and turn off the A/C, etc. You (and everyone else) sees that extra money in your account every quarter- do you turn the A/C back on? No, you use like any other money, except now, high-polluting choices cost more and you limit them, and you use the money for whatever. It's economics 101.
So in my office, the AC is currently blasting- blasting so much that all summer long, we wear sweaters and run space heaters.
We waste so much as a nation - the plastic water bottle are what kills me. No one is recycling those anymore. Something like 7% get recycled and they could be eliminated if we all just got a reusable bottle and drank tap water. Also, some of the water companies are damaging springs.
I think this girls message and anger and fed up is 100% appropriate. We seem unwilling to even make small changes. How hard is it to carry cloth shopping bags and a reusable water bottle? How hard is it to calibrate AC correctly so staff isn't in layers and running heaters mid summer?
Also, to add another layer- over-cooled offices are a very sexist issue. Men like cooler offices as they wear suits (hello, take off your jacket). I have spoken out against how cold it is and I was ignored until a man in our office complained about the cold. He wears polos and khakis. They finally figured out it was 62 degrees where I sit, after telling me it was set to 77 and that I was the problem (along with the 4 of my female coworkers with spaceheaters). But it took a man complaining.
148
@MC
THANK YOU!
I keep sweatshirts and a scarf in my office FOR SUMMER.
I've gotten tired of asking the building management to increase the temperature.
14
@MC Sexist? Like your statement that "men... wear suits"? I've worked for three Fortune 100 companies and haven't worn a suit since 1998 (and no, I'm not in IT). I'm also greatly outnumbered by women, who hold most of the management positions in my company. This ain't the 60's, MC.
4
@Alex. Please don't give up in pushing your building management. You and your company and your building are part of the problem - this is your chance to become part of the solution, not just for yourself but for all of your colleagues. When the world goes to pot in 20 years time, will you really look back and say "yeah, I made the right choice not to bother any further, I had more import things to worry about"?
Sorry to be so stringent, but we are all causing this problem, and it will take a lot of effort for each of us to tackle it. But isn't it worth it?
2
It is so great for the children of wealthy nations to try and influence policies which will inevitably effect already impoverished humans. And when they are proven wrong they will just shrug whilst those who they have condemned to suffering remain silent. Climate change is real but CO2 is not the source of it. Human activity is but these children of the wealthy are far from willing to accept they it is their lifestyles which are the cause this calamity.
6
@ST I'm sorry, but I think you misunderstand them. They point to their lifestyles precisely, which are the lifestyles of the rest of us. They are taking all the action they can in the broken western society that adults have given them. There is no one standing up for the marginalized communities better than they are. I would re-check your facts.
40
@ST
So basically what you're saying is, "It's not me, it's you!"
3
@Fern
In this instance all that is being sought is a profile so that they can profit from this environmental crisis. When you sail across the Atlantic to send a message it is not urgency that you seek but a publicity stunt.
As you can see from my location, I'm in upper Westchester County. I live in a rural part of the town, on a large swath of land, in an area where we are all surrounded by trees. When I moved her 30 years ago, the temperature difference between NYC where I commuted to daily for work, and home was as much as ten degrees -- cooler here, than in town. This summer, it was often if not exactly the same, only a degree or two off. I did not even once turn on my A/C. Not during the heatwaves, or at any other time. I have ceiling fans in the bedrooms and living room, and they made a huge difference. Was I uncomfortable at times? Yes. But not so much that I *just had to indulge.* I did my part not only for the environment, but also kept my ripoff Con Ed bill at a new low.
Ms. Thunberg is dead on correct, and I applaud her.
47
@Euphemia Thompson: I believe the current word for your comment would be that you're engaging in a 'humble-brag.'
2
@Euphemia Thompson Moralizing about AC use or non-use is not going to help anything. Being efficient about what ever climate control you need is. That should be the message, whether you use heat, AC, or both to maintain your comfort and health.
1
Big up to you for showing us the way and thanks for taking onto your frail shoulders what far too many of us today now think impossible to even contemplate.
This sets quite an example, especially at such a young age. Given the high-stakes, such a declaration should, in all fairness, send ripples across the Globe, with masses of concerned citizens rallying to the cause when finally getting their act together at last. Hope this isn't another "flash in the pan", that somewhere from your actions real action will be undertaken at the highest level even if it may be already well too late into the game to turn the situation around.
Anyway, it's now or never.
10
fame begets fame.
but fame doesn't beget wisdom or knowledge
10
@Joe Yoh
Innocence combined with the courage to speak truth to power, is one of the classic—and very powerful— archetypal forms of 'wisdom'.
You should be 'knowledgeable' to that...
8
The yacht is wind-powered--not solar-powered.
4
@rwood1313 And the wind is actually solar-powered, so the naming here doesn't make much difference.
6
@Bo Forsberg
Oh come on Bo!
Using that logic I can say that fossil fuels are also solar power because they originate from photosynthetic plants from millions of years ago. Matter of fact every thing on this earth comes from dead stars so by your logic all energy sources are "solar" powered.
If Democratic leaders believe that wheeling out a 16-year old girl from Sweden who speaks with "blunt, often biting remarks" about climate change is going to help us win in 2020, we might as well concede the election to Trump now.
18
@Paul
Perhaps there is more to this endeavor than Democratic prospects in 2020. Many of us are more concerned with the survival of the planet than with who wins next year. (As one of my friends is fond of saying: "No planet, no party!") I'm hopeful that the weight of scientific opinion, combined with the increasing evidence of climate-driven storms, will spur people to action, no matter who is president.
39
@Midwest Moderate
If you really are concerned with the survival of the planet then you have to be very concerned with who wins next year.
9
@Paul
Right, because every single thing that happens in the government revolves around the presidency.
?????
4
Climate change is not threatening 'Earth'. Climate change is threatening homo sapiens and other creatures. Humans are the first species capable of altering the global climate. We do so with gusto and a refusal to see that we're responsible for this mess we're all in. Should humans go extinct, the earth would still exist, life on earth would still exist - it just wouldn't be dominated by one species that fouled its own nest again and again.
54
@Vic Climate change threatens the survival of many other species, not just our own. It's not an exaggeration to say it threatens life as we know it, since it disrupts seasonal cycles, rainfall and drought, breeding patterns, food availability, migration timing, growth patterns and even the nutritional content of the plants that do adapt to the changing conditions, and these disruptions affect whole ecosystems. It's not the same kind of threat as nuclear annihilation, which does have the potential to wipe out life on earth entirely; but it's still very much an existential threat, and you are pointing out a distinction without much difference.
7
@Andrea Vic didn't say "only humans", you ought to re-read his post before you chastise him.
1
@Andrea Yes, it is an exaggeration. Life will persist long after humans have gone (who, now laments the dinosaurs) and extinction is a very natural process. Should human population suffer from climate change, guess what, human carbon emissions will go down and the climate will shift again, maybe favorably this time!
Nature will find it's equilibrium.
If the delicate sensibilities of the young Ms. Thunberg were disturbed in NYC, she'll have a complete meltdown if she walks the streets in San Francisco.
14
Let’s see where she’s at in 20 or 30 years. Bet she won’t be anywhere as carbon neutral as she would ask everyone to be now. It’s like all the ideas in the Green New Deal, do you really think AOC or Bernie Sanders are using a heat pump, nope they are using oil & natural gas. What’s good for everyone else isn’t good for them. How does Greta’s parents heat their home? Bet she is toasty warm in the Winter without even giving it thought.
6
@nwsnowboarder
Let us not disparage this teen by smearing her!
Instead let us focus on the message(s)
1) Individual responsibility to minimize our carbon foot print.
2) Collective action to push our business and political leaders to work with the scientific community to mitigate and prevent further climate change.
3
@Concerned Citizen
"She probably thinks our summers are 70 degrees and no humidity, just like in Sweden."
OK, I gather you seem to think Greta Thunberg is rather stupid, don't you? Meanwhile, the average US building standard can be described as such: poorly insulated, oversized and free standing "cardboard" constructions, where you have to put in unnecessary large amounts of energy for cooling or heating purposes, because the temperated air will leak out indiscriminately through windows and doors that won't close properly. The houses are layed out in huge, sprawling rows of suburbian wasteland with little to no access to any public transport or communal services, so you basically cannot live there without several cars per family (of course the cars are unnecessary BIG, b'cause you like 'em so and energy is cheap, isn'tit).
That alone goes a long way to explain why average Europeans use half as much energy as average Americans do, for a roughly comparable (some will say superiour) quality of live.
1
@Concerned Citizen You confidently describe Sweden's climate, then from your perception of that you conclude that a Swede can't know anything about US temperatures, since we all believe the weather everywhere is the same as in Sweden ?
Americans (proudly) act for themselves, not each other. We’ll also deal with the consequences as individuals.
Would John Wayne drive an electric vehicle or set the a/c to 78?
4
@Andy Deckman you must have a lot of time, an land. Are you planning on growing all your own food? Having cows for milk and corn for fuel?anyone who thinks they are going to deal with climate change as an individual is living in a very strange bubble. Like it or not you are part of a community that supports your way of life and we need to start makng it clearer to each other, and politcians, that careless, wasteful use of resources cant go on. Water shortages are already proving it
5
@Thatch individuals will transact with other individuals to get the things they need - as they have always done. You are out of touch. Consult the polls (wapo last week): vast majority (4/5) accept climate change as human caused but only a tiny fraction (1/4) would pay even $10/month to act. My point stands.
1
The Times should heed her warning and look carefully at the advertising it runs.
14
@Rick Bogle Yes, and nix the travel section. Air travel is a luxury our species can no longer afford if we want to leave an inhabitable planet to our children.
6
People do not wish to pay for what they get. That is fundamental to this issue.
Carbon is a waste product like your garbage--would you just throw your garbage out the window into the street? No, you arrange AND PAY FOR it to be picked up and disposed of.
Same here. We must agree that paying for what you get: carbon waste disposal is something the individuals creating the waste ought to pay for.
Good and decent people pay for what they get because they know that if they do not pay for what they get, someone else is paying for them. That's called stealing.
27
@J c
How much exactly did she pay for her yacht transportation and ow does he earn her money, exactly ?'
And I wrote "earn" her money- not "receive funding"- you know, the way so people have to work for a living.
1
@JaneK So, what's your point, Jane? Are you saying that because Greta's trip is paid for by others, that her comments are not valid?
2
We don't need all this air conditioning. Ceiling fans work well. Opening windows at night (if the temps drop at night) also works well to cool off a house. And trees keep a house cool if planted in the right locations to shade the low eastern and western sun. Besides being better for the earth, all these solutions are also less expensive and less noisy than air conditioning.
Simplify, simplify, simplify.
33
@the quiet one True, though some of us can't open windows at night due to allergies or safety concerns. Certainly we should all do what we can, but government policy and regulations are needed, because we can't do enough on our own. That is why we have governments.
7
@the quiet one moralize, moralize,moralize and watch elderly people die. Sorry, but this "AC isn't necessary" is moralizing nonsense that kills. How about "efficiency" and "insulation" and "solar/wind/heat pumps"? That's realistic, humane, and cognizant of the varying environments in which people in the US live.
1
@Concerned Citizen Many of the NYTimes readers do live in houses with yards and are not sick and elderly and do have the resources to plant a few trees. This is who I am encouraged to use smart and low tech design instead of resource-hungry and expensive air conditioning. There are fast-growing trees that reach good-sized height in 10 years.
It is good that Greta's earnest pleas for action to alleviate global warming have captured the attention of the media and, therefore, the world. Al Gore captured the media's attention for awhile several years ago. It is important to keep talking about it. We also need to be demanding that our government do more. We need to elect leadership in Washington that will support the transition to green energy. This transition is happening anyway but it can happen much more quickly if we elect the right people.
13
@Carolyn - well, he definitely captured the attention of the media when he claimed he invented the internet!!
@stevevelo He didn't claim he invented the internet. He sponsored legislation that made it possible, because it was developed by government research.
6
@Entera I'm amazed every time I see people trotting out that old, debunked right-wing myth about Al Gore. Those who do that seem to think they're being clever.
1
Since probably the biggest climate impact item we can control is the way we eat and what we eat, I am glad we choose to highlight a 16 year old who refused to fly to the US and instead came to the US in a boat, with full crew, that undoubtedly had a much greater environmental impact.
5
@DickH I disagree. The biggest climate impact item we can control is to limit our reproduction to no more than one child per couple.
20
Undoubtedly. Because, as we all know, if you’re not crewing a boat for a teenage activist, you don’t have to eat.
3
@DickH What about big jet planes? Don't they also require an onboard crew and support facilities and support personnel on the ground?
I especially agree with the air conditioning comments. I am always amazed at how my colleagues that are always so mindful of what they eat, recycling, cycling to work, etc., come to the office and immediately crank up the a/c. Any office where people are wearing sweaters and jackets in the middle of summer is obviously much to warm. 78F should be a national standard for summer.
Likewise, the number I have seen people wearing shorts and and t-shirts in the middle of winter. Temperatures should be set according to season, lower in winter, warmer in summer. That way you can wear the same types of clothes whether inside or out, not to mention saving on energy.
34
@Brian
And far worse are restaurants. I always bring a sweatshirt since it is far too cold. Winter, summer, it doesn't matter, you're always cold.
Of course if our energy came from solar, wind or hydro our air conditioning would have no impact on the environment.
Massachusetts has recently mandated solar on any new construction, following California. What would help tremendously and is of little extra cost is to mandate 6 inch exterior walls instead 4 inch. We had our home built in 1985 this way and use far less fuel than our friends to heat our home. Such a simple thing yet no one does it.
23
@MEDIASAPIENS
Even my husband thinks the restaurants are cold. Since you live in Belgium you probably have no idea how cold these places are. We keep our house at 68 degrees in winter, hardly reptile warm.
I believe carbon emissions are increasing the global mean temperature. I have spent most of my career engineering more efficient vehicles. I have little patients for climate deniers, but...
Just reading the comments here, the perspective of the "we must stop fossil emissions" crowd are EQUALLY unscientific:
"obliterating life on earth"
"biggest threat to planet Earth"
"results in utter destruction"
(Try) to read the IPCC report. Start with chapter 3 - Impacts of 1.5°C of Global Warming on Natural and Human Systems[1]. The word extinction occurs 16 times, typically referring to "local extinction", and concluding "There is no literature that directly estimates the proportion of species at increased risk of global (as opposed to local) commitment to extinction as a result of climate change..."
When the NYTimes runs an article about climate change, and uses a picture of a skull laying in a dry, cracked desert, or Bill Nye lights a globe on fire, it implies as many of my friends believe that we are all dead if we do nothing. The problem is this existential perspective is just as unscientifically justified as carrying a snow-ball into congress to say the climate isn't changing.
So what should we do? What is the cost of stopping climate change? There is a cost of reducing energy consumption and there is a cost to losing coast line, but there is an overall cost benefit we need to find.
[1] https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2019/06/SR15_Chapter3_Low_Res.pdf
11
@Tom Stoltz Chapter 3 of the IPCC report is about what we may expect if we maintain no more than 1.5 degrees C GMST increase vs 2 C. It provides a risk assessment for both global and regional areas of the planet.
Furthermore, within that 1.5-2 C increase (now at .87 give or take .1 C) there will be large variations in different regions and they try to specify those. They also point out the differences in risk between 1.5 and 2 increase in GMST and the associated risk. The risk increases significantly as the GMST goes up that additional .5 C. "There are statistically significant differences in temperature means and extremes at 1.5°C versus 2°C of global warming, both in the global average (Schleussner et al., 2016b; Dosio et al., 2018; Kharin et al., 2018), as well as in most land regions (high confidence) (Wartenburger et al., 2017; Seneviratne et al., 2018c; Wehner et al., 2018b)." pg. 16 of chapter three
And if we go beyond 2 C? Well, both the geological and biological evidence points to another mass extinction event. And most biologists are already convinced that we're in such an extinction event.
So how do you assess cost/benefit regarding our life support system? The earth is our only home and we're now corrupting that home in a way that, if not mitigated, could be catastrophic for life as we know it. And that's an extremely high cost just to keep living the way we have for the last 50-100 years.
1
I thought about American energy consumption during Sunday Night Football. As Al Michaels did his intro he said that it was a steamy 80 degrees outside, and that the roof had been retracted, but that the heat wasn't felt because the air conditioning was on.
Google has been no help on this. Does Atlanta air condition this enormous building pre-game, then turn it off and open the roof? Or, does it continue air conditioning through the game with the roof open?
Either way, I think it's an example of an incredibly wasteful use of energy that would happen only in America.
20
@MEDIASAPIENS
My God, how often does it get to be 35 in Switzerland? That's a normal July and August daytime air temperature in Alabama!
3
@Jeff It's happening more and more. In Germany the past couple of years have seen record high temperatures - last year the south of the country was engulfed in a drought that we still have not fully recovered from. 35 isn't unusual at all anymore. This past summer saw several days at 38-40 degrees - north of the Alps. Northern Italy, just south of the Alps saw temperatures as high as 45-47 this past summer. Hamburg, way in the north, had many days this year over 30 and lots of dry streaks. The "joke" is that instead of buying red wine from Italy in the future, we'll be buying it from Finland. Not very funny, I know.
I watched the interview with Trevor Noah, then read Bill Mckibbon's piece in the New Yorker, Money is the Oxygen on Which the Fire of Global Warming Burns.
I have investments in oil and gas, some that I have made, some inherited. I will sell these, and it will cost me.
The time is now.
36
Forget it! American adults will do nothing abut climate change. They do nothing about anything. Just look at who is President, the great genius of the 21st century. What more could we ask for?
27
Somebody said that she's just repeating what others have told her. That's correct, they are called "scientists". Please listen to them!
Being Swedish, I am very proud of Greta and what she has started. I belong to another generation, but my children and future grand-children will live many years on this only planet we have.
166
@Raymond Bergmark Agreed. Sweden is 30 years ahead of the US in taking care of its environment. It does the small REAL things like recycling more than 60% of its waste. Things Americans are (and will be) too lazy and short-sighted to ever do.
15
@Farqel Recycling started in the 60s in the US.
An average of approximately 258 million tons of trash is generated by the United States in 2018
34.6% was recycled
12.8% was combusted for energy recovery
52.6% was landfilled
4.4 pounds (2.0 kg) of trash is generated per capita per day in the United States
64.7% of Paper
33.0% of Steel
26.0% of Glass
19.8% of Aluminum
9.5% of Plastics
3
@Raymond Bergmark Could we please stop pretending that the actions taken in your lightly populated frigid Nordic utopia can be scaled & applied to the entire planet? It's great that you don't have A/C, but I wonder how many people in in the equatorial zone will die when we force them to abandon their A/C so they can be just like you.
3
"New York City smells"
I grew up in NJ in the days when Secaucus smelled. That was a smell.
I spent a good part of the first 22 years in my life in NYC, back and forth from New Jersey. I still visit. I have many relatives there.
There is much to agree with with Ms. Thunberg, but the smell of NYC?
Never bothered me; it is the smell of life, not some sterile Nordic odor d'boredom.
Different neighborhoods have their own smells. They evolve over time, different foods and peoples and cultures (and I mean this in the most positive sense).
The NYC area has not been my home for a very long time, but I find nothing bad about the smell (well maybe a subway restroom, but I am told that these are being cleaned up).
Bit then I am sitting in my study with the air-conditioner on. It is 31 centigrade. God bless the air conditioner.
11
@Joshua Schwartz I routinely live without airconditioning and it gets to be over 90 degrees F often during summer in American Southwest. The answer? Plant trees around your house. God bless the trees. And put up outdoor shades. Even if you can't plant trees if you're in an apartment, one can usually put up outdoor shades. The inside temps stay in the low 70's F. But then we're fortunate in that the nighttime temps drop to the 60's F because we are high altitude. We open the windows and cool down the house. Not everyone is fortunate to have cool nights I know.
7
@Joshua Schwartz - One can become accustomed to anything; increased pollution each year goes virtually unnoticed by people who grew up with it.
6
@Joshua Schwartz People always used to say to me oh you should see New York in the fall, or Spring in New York is just lovely, never Summer. I found myself volunteering at the NGO Sprout one summer, and it immediately hit me. The incredible number of garbage bags left to rot in the summer sun, even in Greenwich village (that would never happen in a posh neighborhood of Paris). And everybody drinks their ice coffee in giant plastic cups pretending not to notice it reeks. Or maybe like you they are so used to it they don't notice ? And then the bags are taken on the subway to some landfill somewhere nearby. Climate deniers are just big corporations disguised as humans.
5
How much of a carbon footprint was required to build that oceangoing yacht?
9
@Reggie She sailed on a 60 foot sailboat with no functional toilet. Hardly a yacht.
5
@Reggie The yacht already existed before it was volunteered for the mission. This is part of the environmental triad of "Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle".
8
"...I want you to take real action.”
So here's one thing everyone can do: layer. If you're too warm in the summer you can remove clothing down to your t-shirt and light pants. In the winter you can put on your wool sweater.
Sounds trivial, I know, but this is America, where people wear long-sleeved hoodies in the summer while cranking the AC, and wear t-shirts in winter while blasting the heat.
37
@TMJ if I'm wearing a sweater in the summer, it isn't because I'm cranking the AC - it is because the office or store that I am in is too cold and I have no control over that. The problem is not individual - and devolving the problem to individual actions is futile when transportation and industry are the problem.
Dear Ms. Thunberg,
Please stop by my town and tell the locals to stop having so many children, stop busing them, stop driving SUVs, and stop building centrally air-conditioned McMansions. I've been begging them to stop for years; maybe they will listen to you.
Thank you.
56
@Stephanie Wood
As you may have heard, White couples are having fewer children. So much fewer, in fact, that they are not even meeting replacement-level birthrates. Other races, though, have managed to make up the slack, which is why White Americans will become a minority within 20-25 years, it is believed. The scare of overpopulation is definitely putting the fear of apocalypse in certain groups, anyway. But just how would you enforce a 'fewer children' ban, if you had your druthers? Not only would you be tampering with one of humanity's most basic of understood prerogatives, but your 'solution' might have unexpected negative consequences (please see China).
I do agree with you, though, on McMansions. From a purely aesthetic viewpoint, I hate 'em. I would much rather see a revival of classic architecture, i.e. Colonial, Tudor, Victorian revivals, but based on smaller floorplans.
As for SUV's, owners are already meeting federal mileage and emissions guidelines, or pay a large penalty fee if they don't. So they are paying for their sins. While you might ban them outright, I would prefer to let natural market forces do the work. People by the millions are already switching to small cars---heck, you should have seen America circa 1970. We have come a long way. And when the kids are grown and gone, your suburban neighbor will likely trade in the SUV.
Hey, maybe then you could visit together over coffee and find out they're not such bad people after all?
13
@David Bartlett Immigrants with brown, black and yellow skins usually have old fashioned, larger families in their first generation here. After that, their kids generally reduce the sizes and by the third generation, are down to one or two kids. I've observed this phenomenon for seventy years now.
5
I can’t understand why all these older men feel so threatend by Greta. She is a young girl focusing on what she and so many others feel is the biggest threat to planet Earth - the climate change.
She does not say she has the solution.
She and her peers ask us to listen, take action and to leave her and all youth a future on our planet.
This modest, intelligent and articulated girl should have our support and not be bullied by bitter, middleaged men.
201
Old men tend to be insecure and fear change... now we know why we are in this mess.
23
@Kia
Perhaps we are "threatened", as you say, because we are old enough to know that it is not a child's place to scold adults. Particularly a child whom possesses only a myopic view of the complexities of life.
5
@David Bartlett
So whose place is it to scold adults? We've more than earned that scolding.
25
I admire this kid and those from Marjore Stoneman Douglas High School who railed against the gun culture but until they can vote, until they have financial support, until they have true clout their efforts will just be background noise and the rapacious, predatory, bought-off politicians and their rich patrons will ignore them. But every little bit helps when it comes to educating some Americans.
22
Greta Thunberg, the girl so appalled to learn in school about the scope of climate change and the ways our worldwide fossil-fuel-based economy is obliterating life on earth that she fell into a deep depression and stopped eating, did what every one of us must do now — which is everything we possibly can. She felt the promise of her education was a lie: what future was it preparing her for? So she took up her solitary vigil in front of the Swedish Parliament building once a week. Her parents were not thrilled, but at least she seemed to be throwing off her terrible depression.
Then a reporter noticed her. And then Greta began to speak, in her blunt, clear-eyed way.
She has many powers: innocence, intelligence, clarity, unpretentiousness, moral reproach, commitment, and science. They have helped her to be heard where so many with the same message have been ignored.
She’s an extraordinary messenger, and we’re lucky to have her. Now we need to change our lives.
304
@Portia Someone please be sure to shield Greta from listening to the scientists about coronal mass ejections, gamma ray bursts, asteroids, volcanoes, earthquakes...
all much scarier than global warming.
1
Greta is quite an inspiration, not just for her words and deeds, but for her inclusive, unselfish approach to the topic and her newfound fame.
But insofar as this country's fate is concerned, I harbor no illusions about our emissions profile turning around anytime soon. After all, look at how quickly guns kill people, and yet our (Trumpian-lapdog) Senate still does nothing. And feeds us nonsense of how guns make us safer. The toll of climate change takes a much slower path to destruction than guns, so I can't possibly see how we'll solve it in time, here.
But Greta does bring us one hope for change: that when she and her peers become old enough to vote, they will remove all of these old, closed-minded, financially-privileged and NRA-financed, white men from office. God knows what will be left of the planet and country by then, but we'll have to pick up the pieces and start over.
61
@Lou S. Greta has continually made the point that it’s the current adults who must make radical changes now. By the time Greta and her peers become adults, it will be too late.
70
@Portia Uh, it was too late already 30 years ago, according to the NYT.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/01/magazine/climate-change-losing-earth.html
3
As someone who is neurodiverse, I am so thankful for Greta speaking the truth. The same thinking that has created the problem cannot solve the problem. We need the neurodiverse more now than ever. We also need to unite behind the science. I'm going to be at the climate strike tomorrow. Will you join us?
24
I hope that the climate protests on Friday generate some news media attention beyond those outlets that already preach to the choir. Unfortunately, cable news and the networks haven't shown a great interest in discussing the climate crisis except in the most superficial terms. Worse, some still frame it as a "debate."
Greta Thunberg is perhaps just what is needed to get the issue on the front-burner: a girl who is a bit unusual, but earnest, informed and deeply committed to the cause. Let's hope the news media gives this and the UN Climate Summit the attention it deserves.
41
@Brian. ABC spent more time last year reporting on the royal baby than reporting on the climate emergency.
8
Go, Greta (and team), Go. Off- site meeting mantras come to mind for America today. There is no “I” in team and the last four letters of American spell “I can.”
8
I totally agree with Mike. This is her "15 minutes of fame" and don't understand why the media is going along. Also, most of these climate change protesters go from one country to another by plane because it's faster. Really? Prettty hypocritical.
6
In this case she spent 2 weeks sailing to NYC in a solar powered sailing boat. Next time try reading the article, before dismissing it. Perhaps then you can make a difference too.
29
@Chris Bennett
To clarify, she arrived on a sailboat with solar panels. This is not exactly a fossil fuel less venture. The crew needs transportation (planes, cars and trucks for provisioning) and that multimillion dollar craft wasn't a hollowed out piece of deadwood she paddled ashore.
When she calls for a press conference, and twenty two news organizations show up, they don't take mass transit to get there.
And when those UN delegates are finished listening to her protest a motorcade of the biggest SUVs made are idling outside waiting to chauffeur them to their hotel two blocks away.
9
@Benni
Perhaps I can put this into a context that a fellow New Yorker can understand:
Do you cancel a date with a super-model because she (or he) shows up with a little dirt on her shoes?
1
she is shockingly unpretentious - I really hope US media can handle that
97
People are stooges that think a 16 year old has got the answers. Understanding the intersection of science and politics is difficult for adults to understand who have lived 2 or 3 or 5 lives a 16 year old has.
It is a disservice to float out the musings of the naïveté who simplify our problems. That is the lesson of age and wisdom: nothing is as simple as it seems. People who think they have the answer, whether it be in politics, religion, or business usually don’t. Knowledge is grasping the complexity. The fool knows nothing, the wise one knows she knows nothings.
I advise this teenager go home, read, learn, listen and experience life. When she’s accomplished that task she can come back and teach us something.
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@Jack
Do not dismiss the concerns of youth simply because they do not understand everything there is to understand. Many adults know no more than she does.
Have YOU read the scientific reports she has read and recommends to our politicians? Even if she does not understand it all, why is it ok for a young person who gets enough to know that climate change is a problem to be on a mission to get adults to DO something?
Youth are often the ones to stir the pot and push for change. Yes, they are idealistic and some of that often tempers with time and clashes with reality. That said, we need idealism from successive generations of youth so that we don't get bogged down in the fears and hesitancy that too much 'realism' can create as we get over.
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Read the story and you'll see that she is not asking you to accept her view, she's asking you to read the science, produced by "older wiser people" and take action on what you learn. Clearly you are more interested in cutting her down than understanding the reality of the science and what it says.@Jack
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@Jack,
We’d still be in the dark ages if not for the youth. She doesn’t say she has answers. She’s pointing us directly at the people who do have answers. She just wants you to listen to them.
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Dear NYT - thank you for this article about an inspiring young woman, who is spearheading real social change with more courage and determination than many politicians in this country. What stands out in this article is that even someone this exceptional cannot shake the "she doesn't smile enough" comment (c.f., "She still speaks very quietly and slowly. But she smiles much more than when she first began gaining media attention a year ago."). And to make matters worse, this sexist and belittling commentary is coming from a woman journalist - Somini Sengupta . Did we not learn anything during the Hillary Clinton campaign?
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@Stefanie B — As a female who regularly speaks in public and has taken classes and read many books in order to improve speaking skills, I can tell you that the comment about smiling has nothing to do with sexism. It’s simply part of what is taught for speakers who want to gain some measure of rapport with the audience. No one is interested in listening to an unpleasant scold, but people respond to the kindness of a smile and are more likely to not turn off a difficult message. A smile projects the idea that the speaker does not see the audience as an enemy or does not consider him/herself to be better than or in authority over the people in the audience. A speaker who smiles is wise. A journalist who notices the difference is observing an improvement in technique. Attributing this to sexism is simply an overreach.
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Who could have imagined that Greta Thunberg, a 16-year-old high school student would magically rise to become an international spokesperson for the environmental movement?
Is she the green Joan of Arc? I don’t think so.
Is she, as an earlier NYT article suggested, “a world political leader?” Hardly.
Consider the fact that her father, an actor, and her mother, an opera and cabaret singer, have co-authored a book dealing with environmentalism and sustainability. In making her speeches Ms. Thunberg reads from scripts undoubtedly prepared by her parents and perhaps others, in tones and with dramatic pauses and emphases undoubtedly coached by her parents. (Lots of her speeches are on YouTube so you can check this out for yourselves.)
How can I believe that Ms. Thunberg is not an enviro savant? When I was in high school, a year older than Ms. Thunberg, I was on the school’s debate/speech team, which competed successfully throughout Southern California. We were endlessly coached on language and presentation; the only time I scored poorly is when I ran up against a brilliant speaker/performer who was coached by—guess who—a prominent Hollywood acting coach.
Someone is paying for her travels, public relations and related services; it would be of interest to know who.
Perhaps someone believes the words of a child will be somehow more persuasive than science, since scientists are still far from being able to predict, much less control, weather and climate phenomena.
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@Mon Ray
Aren't we all products of our upbringing adopting or rejecting the values of our earliest influences? And "coached" by parents, teachers and the world in every interaction to behave in a certain way?
I understand from your words that you don't believe the science.
The rest of us will focus on what matters: Her message.
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@Mon Ray Ernman’s book, Scenes from the Heart, is autobiographical and describes her family’s struggle with her two daughters’ special needs: both Greta and her younger sister, Beata, have been diagnosed with autism, A.D.H.D., and other conditions.
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Yet scientists have reached a consensus. Climate change is real and threatening.
But hey, many the trillion dollar fossil fuel industry is right and we can continue to ignore and make fun of scientists
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The young people have the most to loose, as they will be here in 60 years when oceans have risen several meters and storm routinely lash norther countries. Out society is selfish and insensitive to the extreme.
We push growth when we know that 1% growth results in, perhaps, 1 meter rise in sea level and 100 new species in danger. We are ignorant of the mathematics that tells us the facts about it. That 1 or 2 or 3 % per year results in utter destruction over 100 or 1000 years.
We push new toxic products into the environment without the slighted regard for their effects to every form of biology, including out own. Prove that its harmful after its there. DDT in 1950? Micro plastics in 2020 - same deal.
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@H Smith Yes, but I suggest you bone up on the pollution from the Industrial Revolution as well.
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@H Smith The focus on carbon is important, but its far from the only problem. That's like a focus on Plutonium in nuclear weapons which ignores Uranium 235, a bomb explosive just as powerful.
The real problem is so called “economic growth” which really means “nature decline”. Every year we pave over more of nature by 2 to 3%, cut down more trees by 2 to 3%, take more fish by 2 to 3%, extract more minerals by 2 to 3%, and put out more toxins by 2 to 3%.
@Harry Studies show lead pollution in Roman times!
If a 16 year old American appeared before Swedish parliament and asked Swedes to turn off their heat in the winter time, they would never stop laughing.
Great that she's engaged in the climate issue, but I'd rather read and listen to the scientists.
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@Harry “I don’t want you to listen to me,” she said. “I want you to listen to the scientists.” [It's in the article]/.
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@Harry
That is her very clear point - we need to read and listen to the scientists. And act on it.
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It will be interesting to see what may happen with students in the US tomorrow, if they really start to get involved and join in the Fridays for The Future walk outs
For decades we Americans have consumed up to 50% of the world's resources just to exist, and now the rest of the world wants to live like that was as well. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. We can all clearly have a sustainable and good quality of life making while the necessary changes that help protect the planet and conserve our resources.
Sadly our current President is on a killing spree when it comes to the environment and in his one term he will undo 20 years of efforts.
It is criminal in my opinion and not needed as American prefer cars, devices and such that are more energy efficient and save them money in the long run.
Americans need to realize we must lead on these issues and no allow Trump, Wall Street, misguided corporations, polluters, and oil companies to continue to dump truck load after truck load of dirt on the Earth's coffin pretending this is not " real."
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@shiningstars122 my niece's school is doing nothing. They can do a "walk out" during lunch. That's it.
The kids were told they any all day walk/missing class would an unexcused absence. The teachers are under no obligation to catch them up or cut a break.
When you have 5 AP classes and getting 4 hours of sleep per night, worrying about polar bears is secondary. The high school beyond competitive.
The kid in remedial math might be protesting, but the kid in AP statistics isn't.
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@Ford313
Worrying about polar bears--and the underlying set of conditions that created those problems for polar bears--is what intelligent people should do. Students in high-achieving programs ought to have a concomitantly high standard of moral capabilities. Who wants doctors or engineers who don't care?
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Greta is our seed-corn. She is our future. Yet we seem to condescend while professing to admire. We understand what she is saying but not from her perspective.
She is the future knocking on our door. The adult who will inherit all that we do, and have done. She, and all those her age and younger, will be on the receiving end of all the domino's our actions have set up to fall.
The price of wisdom is to fall from grace and by which learn from the experience. By the actions of our own hands, in blithely destroying and rapaciously consuming all that this Paradise Earth provides us, we have done just that, fallen. We continue to fall.
But by Greta's cautionary insistence it's clear that now is the time to right ourselves, and by restorative actions set in motion all the things necessary for the eventually adult Greta to see that we, too, can grasp the reality of our errors and learn how to become wise.
John~
American Net'Zen
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To visitors from Europe, the U.S. has always seemed dominated by the overwhelming force of the mighty dollar and the desire of its citizens to achieve wealth.
This is the force that has held back any true action against the energy industry in this country. As soon as serious action is taken to lower the use of petro, billions of dollars in asset values will evaporate as quickly as gasoline in the sun.
But what is Europe's excuse? France's leadership attempted to raise the price of gasoline, which disproportionately hurt the middle class and below. Near rioting was the result- so what's been done since?
While U.S. consumerism and our huge per-capita carbon footprint deserves to be shamed by the world, humanity as a whole isn't exactly behaving heroically to address this unfolding disaster. Unfortunately, our DNA doesn't contain the required instincts to take the long view needed to save our future.
I honestly doubt that people will be prepared to make material sacrifices adequate to address the problem before the coastal cities require walls to hold back the sea.
Our scientists continue to update this probability to the nearer and nearer future.
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@alan haigh - While few individuals and/or countries are doing nearly enough to reduce their carbon footprint, fact is that Europe's actions still put US to shame.
Since '90, the EU, as a group, has reduced their GHG creation by nearly 30%. The EU, with 513 million peeps creates about 2/3 the GHG that 330 million Americans do. The average German creates nearly 1/2 the GHG that Americans and the average French person about 1/3.
That said, you are obviously correct that people are unwilling to make even simple, easy lifestyle changes that could slow the existential, rapidly increasing disaster. It's all about What I Want Right Now. Our hubris and self-absorption will kill us off. Sayonara, homo sapiens.
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Thank goodness for youth that aren’t hampered by being correct and thinking the adult world will take care of them. There is too much apathy and self serving rationalizing that is going on. To employ new Cleantech, provide the funding needed to take a chance on new science pales in comparison to other government programs and ultimately the devastation to our society that is climate change. Unfortunately the government system isn’t about a cohesive long term vision given the popularity contest that is democracy. Cleantech, climate change should not be a bargaining chip, an option to debate, an optional policy change. Until this attitude changes, we will continue to drive this car into oblivion. At least the kids in the back of the car see where we are headed. Thanks Greta for keeping it real.
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From both sides now, regardless of how you view this presentation by Greta, she has obviously captured everyone's attention, and that has caused a change already, for the better. There is no denial of this.
As Deepak Chopra would say, this moment is as it should be.
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@Mark Seibold Greta's right, 100%. ...Now let's ease off a bit on the A/C. I'm freezing...and that's at the supermarket.
“Don’t invite us here to tell us how inspiring we are without doing anything about it.”
The aforementioned quote is not lecturing or condescending; it is plain speech. The US knows dollars and believes they're the most--nay, the only-- important thing in the world. Greta knows what the world's scientists know. Only when she can identify the profit to be had by addressing human-caused climate change will the world's biggest consumer country collectively care. Until then she'll get only insincere thanks for the inspiration.
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@P You're confusing the government with the people, a dangerous mistake.
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I know she rightly rejects our praise, but I'm just so grateful for Greta and her peers. I'll try to show my gratitude through action, as she insists.
For all her Swedish outsiderness, there is something quintessentially American about her appearance in congress, and her outspokenness to lawmakers, that one can only hope will resonate with, and inspire, a great majority of Americans. A real life version of a Frank Capra picture, of the innocent speaking truth to power, and cutting through the noise: "Ms. Thunberg Goes to Washington".
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It is almost unfathomable for a European, descending towards a major U.S. airport for the very first time, to comprehend the amount of petroleum guzzling vehicles that swarm around you on the ground.
I remember my first time vividly when I landed at Newark (EWR). I couldn’t help but stare out of the window with my mouth open. For Americans, it’s just how the world is supposed to work.
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@Thomas - yes, everyone here drives huge guzzlers as though they had never heard of climate change, they fly where others would take the train, and they like to freeze in summer. They also make a lot of noise and smell, but it takes an outsider like Ms Thunberg to notice the appalling obvious.
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@Thomas
As for the sheer number of cars, I can think of a number of European locations (not all in huge cities) where there are way too many cars.
But there are a number of things that are different:
- Very inefficient cars. When I rent a car in the US as a Hertz Gold customer, there is a section where I can just choose the car, they are all the standard rate. 80% are SUVs. I always pick one of the regular cars. I have not been impressed with the actual mileage compared to the 10 year old van I drive at home (at higher speed).
- Poor insulation of residential and business buildings.
- Inefficient lighting (T12 fluorescent tubes - come on!)
- Electric heating.
I believe the science and think it imperative that we take solid action now to begin reversing the effects of climate change. But I will NOT be lectured and condescended to by a 16 year old child.
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@Mike
So what are you doing to decrease your carbon footprint? Do you "walk the talk"?
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@Mike "“I don’t want you to listen to me,” she said. “I want you to listen to the scientists.”
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@Mike Greta spoke for barely a minute according to the article. Hardly a lecture.
If you find the truth condescending that is on you.
What is ridiculous is that it takes a child sailing across the ocean to tell Congress something that climate scientist have been saying for almost 50 years, we need to do something.
For all the hoopla though, nothing will happen, same as when children go to Congress to ask them to do something about the gun violence that threatens them in their schools and for the same reason, powerful lobbyists who pay for their reelection.
Until the system changes, the problems will remain unsolved.
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