"When satire is aimed at the powerless, it is not only cruel - it's vulgar." (Molly Ivins)
Shane Gillis doesn't get this. His "apology" was evidence of it:
“I’m a comedian who pushes boundaries. I sometimes miss. If you go through my 10 years of comedy, most of it bad, you’re going to find a lot of bad misses. I’m happy to apologize to anyone who’s actually offended by anything I’ve said. My intention is never to hurt anyone but I am trying to be the best comedian I can and sometimes that requires risks.”
Let's see: jokes where you use epithets at groups of people for their immutable traits instead of their conduct and character... wow, never seen that before. /s
7
I'd LOVE to know what the bit about the Civil Rights movement was about that Roy Wood Jrs time on stage made people "rock back with laughter" ....
because if audiences are getting so sensitive causing a comic to get fired for words, how does one make a turbulent, violent time funny without being dismissive?
5
I'm a white male, so this will (and probably should) be taken with a grain of salt.
I think that in some ways, PC "culture" goes too far. I've said things in the past, completely without malice, that today I would never dream of saying because I've learned from my discussions with people of color, that however innocent my intent, certain microaggressions do tremendous harm. Where I think PC culture goes too far is in the immediate rush to judgment and pillory, rather than educate, those that don't yet realize the consequences and hurt those words can cause.
I think in the world in comedy, there may be a little more leeway/gray area when it comes to the use of what in the "real world" would be considered microaggressions. Personally, it felt a little uncomfortable to watch two white guys make fun of Chinese food and buildings so gleefully and arrogantly; that may have been crossing the line (also, I just didn't think it was very funny).
But what is clearly not okay in 2019, and has not been okay for as long as I remember, is the use of racial slurs. What did Gillis's use of the word "ch***" add to his joke? What compelled him to say it?
Avoiding the use of slurs isn't being "PC", it's being a decent human being.
And if you can't be funny without racial slurs rolling off your tongue, I don't think you're an SNL-caliber comedian.
13
Part of me wonders if SNL knew perfectly what it was doing when it hired him.
After Trump's election, a lot of cultural institutions indulged in navel-gazing explorations of their supposed out-of-touch-ness. Remember the sentiment?
"Are we so out of touch that we didn't see how this could win? Are we the problem?"
Various news outlets sent reporters to Appalachia to write empathetic pieces about long-ignored tribes of "Real Americans." Liberals devoured books about hillbillies. Journalistic outlets hired columnists who would give voice to the spirit of Trumpism. Roseanne came back.
Maybe SNL was operating in that tradition when they hired Gillis, after several seasons of (clumsy and blunt) Trump satire.
Of course, all these knee-jerk attempts to accommodate Trumpism have come to naught, because whether or not Trump the man is a fascist, Trumpism the phenomenon surely has fascism in its DNA. (Sorry, "economic anxiety.")
And so the cultural institutions are starting to regret their flirtations with Trumpism as the various chosen avatars of its spirit have spoken their "truths" and revealed the racism and fascism at their core. How they could have expected otherwise is a mystery.
2
I am thankful that Seinfeld was on the air long before the current wave of ridiculous PC silencing. Rewatch old Seinfeld episodes. Think those would be permitted now? Some of the funniest television ever because they made fun of EVERYONE! Every episode was offensive in some way, whether towards, women, a particular ethnic group, older people, whatever. It's comedy, and it's funny!
9
I heard an interesting reading today by an Indian woman who grew up in Mechanicsburg, PA, where Shane Gillis is from. She said the only people of color in her school were an adopted black kid and herself and her sister. A teacher mistook the mehndi on her sister's hands as marker drawings and tried to make her wash it off. When confronted about it, the teacher realized her mistake and apologized to the sister in front of the class.
This story seemed particularly apropos considering recent events. It totally makes sense to me that Gillis might feel entitled to make racial slurs if he had grown up in a town that was almost completely devoid of people of color. I wonder if the same is true for a lot of these straight white comics.
36
The Gillis, Dice Clay, Barr, and Kinison style isn’t really humor, and these people aren’t really comics. It’s a tired, antiquated trope of hate disguised as comedy and free speech. Speech is free insofar as you can say anything you want, but words have consequences. Society didn't need these kind of performers first time around and we need them even less today. It’s a small sign of progress that this type of performer is well on the way to irrelevance. We already have Gillis, Dice Clay, Barr, and Kinison rolled into one in the White house. I trust that he, too, is well on the way to obsolescence.
14
How exactly are marginalized groups "silenced" in the comedy world by straight white men?
Its not self-evident that is true when some of the most famous comedians of all time have been people of color. And its rather absurd to think that someone can be silenced today when literally anyone can have a personal youtube page or podcast or twitter account. If someone is legitimately funny or has something to say that people want to hear, they will become successful - it happens all the time.
No one realizes this today but assertions like this are very serious accusations. It should require some sort of evidence especially when it's the basis for the whole article.
8
Blazing Saddles is the funniest movie ever made, but it was written by Richard Pryor, Mel Brooks, and Buck Henry. Sometimes it's just a matter of talent.
8
Yesterday, Shane Gillis had the right to say anything he wanted to say without fear of the government locking him up for saying it.
Today, Shane Gillis has the right to say anything he wants to say without fear of the government locking him up for saying it.
That's it, folks. That is the extent of what the first amendment guarantees. There's no hidden, embedded right to appear on SNL when society rejects Shane Gillis who seems to have confused comedy with the public abuse of minority communities.
24
Please let Shane know that things change. And, it is important for artists to change their work. What he defines as a risk is not a risk. Work harder and find some new risks.
I am reminded of a line by Jackie Mason (who was Jewish) who said something like, "No one is afraid to walk alone at night through a Jewish neighborhood." That is much funnier than a stereotypical racial slur.
7
I like offensive humor. I like shocking jokes that make me laugh. The world could use more humor. SNL has had some very funny controversial people over the years and whether or not they keep the guy or get rid of them doesn't matter to me. I am just tired of everyone's utterance has to be completely PC or you could lose your job or your livlehood. If you don't like a performer don't pay to see him or change channels. The sterilized sanitized virtue signalling police are watching and that is not funny to me.
14
@Robert
What so many folks don't get is the therapeutic nature of offensive humor. Saying what is taboo makes us laugh because it gets the demons off our chest and releases tension. When you ban offensive humor, you should expect much bigger problems when that darker side of human nature has no relief valve.
9
Maeve, I absolutely love you on Wait Wait Don't Tell me. It brightens my whole week when you are a panelist. Thank you for doing what you do, and for sharing yourself with the world.
2
The writer undermined her argument with the following: "I’m not saying comics need to get into fistfights. We’re too out of shape and anxiety-ridden for that." This she did while criticizing her peers for laziness: "I’ve seen countless versions of Shane Gillis and his material truly spread all over the world, and I’m not about to wrestle the mic from them. I have no problem with anybody speaking their piece, even when it’s lazy and xenophobic." Beware the blanket statement.
3
Edward Sheehy's comment is right on target. Racists jokes do not belong on public airwaves. SNL has made the right decision and I hope, HOPE, that they take this opportunity to continue moving in the direction of more sophisticated, even if slapstick, comedy and stop its decline into the juvenile comedy that it has focused on for the last few years.
4
Several times a week I watch re-runs of "All In The Family" which, by today's standards, has at least two racist remarks in each episode. Should the series be cancelled?
2
No. There’s a big difference between making fun of racism and expressing racism.
11
Why did it take SNL so long to can this untalented guy?
3
I kept reading to see when Ms. Higgins was going to mention Dave Chapelle, a person of color whose current Netflix special is a clinic in punching down. If that same routine was performed verbatim by a white, straight male, not only would he be cancelled, he'd be obliterated! And I have to question who these would-be comics - from various marginalized groups - are that Ms. Higgins refers to being silenced. Say what? I could easily list twenty of the top of my head, but really - if you can make an audience laugh, that's the only criteria that 98% of people care about. And we all have different senses of humor - if Shane doesn't float your boat (as he doesn't mine), go listen to someone else. It's called diversity, and it's a beautiful thing.
10
I agree with nearly everything in this opinion except one glaringly inaccurate statement. Ms. Higgins says, "Comedy, like so many of our cultural institutions, remains dominated by men, usually straight and white men."
I would remind her that many of modern comedy's most revered and popular comedians have been African American men. Redd Foxx, Bill Cosby, Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, Bernie Mac, Jamie Foxx, Steve Harvey, Tracy Morgan, Kevin Hart, etc. etc. have been not only popular but several levels above their contemporaries in fame and success.
Yes, the bullying standard in comedy is old and played out and it's time for a change. But, fortunately it seems that comedy is one of the last cultural institutions where comedians of any race or gender are accepted - as long as they're funny.
5
I have this feeling that SNL dumped Shane Gillis for the oldest of reasons in television -- potential loss of advertising revenue from sponsors, who were, in turn, worried about loss of sales from customers.
I don't see anything courageous or exemplary or responsive in SNL's decision. Like everything in our country, it was about money.
5
" ... his care for the craft made the craft disappear."
What a lovely expression about the commitment to craft, one that is relevant to any profession or practice.
5
As you stated, Shane Gillis chose the lazy, xenophobic path to win applause by attacking people with less power than himself. Comedians can still be funny without resorting to attacking minorities. It just takes a little more effort than Mr. Gillis was capable of.
11
Am I the only one who thinks these public cancellations have very little to do with the individuals themselves? I think they're a symptom of something much larger. The world is a very messy, very scary place at the moment. Many people are fearful of Trump, Ergodan, Putin, and they long for a sense of control over the relentless news cycle. Public cancellations like this allow us to experience some small sense of normality and control, even if just for a moment. In our rage, we are temporarily empowered.
I see these events as our society letting off steam; we can't remove Trump, but we can remove other 'problematic' men from the public conversation. Society is buckling under the pressure of 4 years of Trumpism, globalism and the multitude of dangers posed by a warming planet. Events like these are a natural response.
Shane Gillis may be a bad person, and he may be a good person. I think that information is inconsequential at this late stage. In the moment we inhabit, he has become an avatar for all of society's ills, and he has borne the brunt of our anger for that reason. I truly believe that if the global political and environmental situation were less fraught, we would see far fewer events like this occur.
4
Lovely piece, thank you for writing!
And I too am laughing --- at SG's statement: "I'm a comedian who was funny enough to get on SNL. That can't be taken away."
Except --- BOOM! It can. Ha! Now THAT was funny.
9
I always find it unsettling when people like Ms. Higgins engage in the kind of crass stereotyping they claim to abhor.
I have no idea if Shane Gillis is funny or not. But are all white, male comedians interchangeable as Ms. Higgins seems to suggest? Is Jerry Seinfeld's humor identical to George Carlins's since they are both straight white males. And New Yorkers?
Or are their sensibilities wildly different, and thus their humor (and I am fans of both) at the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Sadly, people like Ms. Higgins want to put us all into gender, racial and sexual orientation boxes rather than understand that people are far more complicated than the sum of their labels.
13
Used to be everybody wanted to be a rock star. Now it's a comedian everyone wants to be.
Jack Paar did a special once on what makes stuff funny. The show began with him in an old fashioned night gown and a bonnet, sitting in a wheel chair plummeting down a hillside.
It was funny because someone might get hurt; it was OK because we all knew it was him and not some real old lady.
Steve Allen began his show once by inviting the TV audience into his house for a tour, wearing a tux. The scene quickly devolved into a shootout with one of his neighbors.
Absurd. Yep, that's comedy.
There is just too much real good comedy out there for the folks are who just too lazy to avoid the cheap laughs.
And as Wavy Gravy said: "If you don't have a sense of humor, it just isn't funny."
3
Some days it feels like we are careening towards a world in which we will be expected to act and talk like automatons. That way no ones feelings will be hurt and no one can lord their "privilege" over others. In this world the Shane Gillis's will be expunged, as their crude and distasteful humor cannot be allowed to persist, lest we fall back into the very harmful paradigm of not taking ourselves and everything we do or say so seriously.
Of course, perhaps there's still hope that we can come up with a rationale way to deal with these issues, including simply choosing to ignore or not listen to comedy and other forms of expression that we find distasteful.
7
@John Triple yes!!!
The thing I’m not seeing in these comments is much about how comedy and the jokes we tell teach and normalize attitudes about the subjects being joked about. It’s a powerful weapon for use against minorities in particular. Children, as well as adults learn to bully by using jokes about other people’s appearance, race, clothing, language, or other differences. They learn FROM jokes as well. It’s now the norm for people from all parts of the political spectrum to mock and attack the idea of what is called “political correctness.” My definition of PC is civility, fairness, kindness and empathy. I think it’s possible to try to keep these ideals in mind even for comedy routines.
14
@Nancy " It’s a powerful weapon for use against minorities in particular."
Have you seen the recent Dave Chappelle comedy special? I assure you that he's a smart and sophisticated man who happens to be a minority. Just suggesting that there might be a different way to view, as you put it, "the subjects being joked about."
Also, it's nice that you have your own definition of "PC" but for many of us, it appears to be a way to silence any criticism and stifle debate.
6
There are consequences to speech & action, both driven by intention. Good intention, good karma. Bad intention, bad karma. Karma works. And a lot faster with the internet.
Exhibit [1] Two best pals, both 2-years old, one black & one white, run to each other for a big loving hug. The video gone viral. The two families were on the Ellen show today. Ellen gave each toddler a mini-jeep.
Exhibit [2] SNL fired Shane Gillis before the season begin.
5
It's pretty ironic when people claim that sexist or racist language is "pushing the boundaries" of comedy, since that's the sort of stuff that was commonplace several decades ago.
8
People have freedom of speech but they do not have freedom from consequences.
I don't really find the humor in making fun of groups, any group, particularly funny. Honestly I find it low hanging fruit. If that, as a comedian is the best material you have...you really aren't talented.
13
What I don't know about the Gillis affront relates to whether it or they were examples of predatory humor and or whether he "used" a prohibited word harmfully or just "mentioned" it in an abstract manner without judgment.
Studying mathematical logic, I learned the distinction between the concepts of "use" and "mention." We do this daily whether we realize it or not. Take the word "fat." Fat is a substance. Fat can refer to someone who has too much of that substance, too high a body mass index.
"Hey fat person" is a "use" of the word and is an offensive use. "Mention" would be something along the lines of "fat is undesirable."
Add the element of judgmental attribution and you have the potential for insult, which is particularly unpopular today. "You sure are fat."
Humor has a subset known as predatory humor, which introduces an element of zero sum game to the interchanges, such as "gee you're fat" which suggests the line is delivered by someone who sees himself as not fat and wants to indicate his superior status by reducing that of the other person. We see predatory humor all the time in comedy, but it seems to be gradually going away. When "making fun" becomes predatory, it's time to stop.
4
glad to hear a comic confirm what I have been experiencing..... white male comics that are not funny doing one Netflix special after another... all of them unfunny. I decided it was just me. the wrong demographic. not the target audience. but now I know it's true..... they aren't funny.
4
Hear! Hear! Totally agree with Ms. Higgins. And I'll even go further and say Shane Gillis and his ilk are lazy comedians and we are getting very tired of them. Yawn. So glad he had to leave the stage before he started.
2
I am worried that we are slowly becoming a society that can't take a joke. Does everything have to be run through a filter and be analyzed before consumption.
8
@George Marley If one did "run it through a filter," only to find large chunks left behind, one can still use those chunks. George Carlin and Richard Pryor didn't have guarantees that they wouldn't be 'canceled' but they said it anyway. They had the courage of their convictions. My impression of what you call cancel culture is that of little boys caught picking on a toddler. They knew it was wrong when they did it, and they definitely deserve a time out. We're all just hoping they'll grow out of it.
4
@A Brown I am big fans of both Carlin and Pryor and they were both brave man. But there was no social media when they were performing. A crucial difference.
2
Ms. Higgins writes about comedy: "The thing I find hardest is the bullying nature, the punching down." That isn't comedy. It's picking on people in public so the mob (a paying mob) can chuckle without feeling too guilty.
402
@Hugh MacDonald Is "punching up" just fine? And who defines what group is "up" and which is "down"? Obviously, the author's reference to straight white males speaks volume on this point, and is consistent with far left dogma on this point. Don't get me wrong. I'm not shedding any tears for straight white males based on their race or sexual identity. But the far-left belief system which dictates that straight white men are the oppressors is one reason we have Trump
17
@Hugh MacDonald- Excellent thought.
6
@David
It is hardly "far left" to think that white men are, generally, privileged in this nation. That does not mean white men lack for trials and worries or that all are faring well. So, 'humor' that punches down at poor white men, or white men with disabilities, or white men who are in some way suffering would also be repulsive.
29
What's funny is it's the very same people who are so vocal about defending books from being banned that support the censorship (or at least de-platforming) of voices they find offensive.
7
@Jon Censorship?? Please. Shane has platforms to express his own views and brand of comedy -- his own podcast from which the original clip came, for one. It's within SNL's right to determine which voices appear on the platform *they* happen to be providing, just as it is within Fox News's.
Just wondering - did you defend Kathy Griffin holding up a mock-severed head of Trump? Did you similarly express chagrin at how she was blacklisted afterwards?
12
With all due respect, this is just dumb. It's comedy people. Everyday the climate is warming, our society is struggling with income inequality, firearm violence, access to health care, etc. just to name a few.
All the people who are outraged about something a comic says, doesn't have enough to worry about or is focused on the lesser of many evils. This obsession with political correctness is why we (Dems) lose elections --because we are focused on the wrong things. if you don't find it funny, don't laugh, don't watch. Put your righteous fury to better use.
13
@Ted Manger You have a point. But what really are the 'rules?' Are black slurs OK in comedy? Gay, hispanic ones? No comedian dare call Cory Booker a racial slur. It's a very complex issue that Dems own, GOP can fortunately stand from afar and say, "now that is a bit overboard" and get approval, but not have to provide any real solutions or ways to tackle this issue.
1
Ted, I think you answered your own critique. If you don’t like what someone says, don’t watch. In SNL’s case, they decided not to hire Shane. You could call that an editorial decision - something done every day across all media. Free speech has consequences. Many comics have learned this. Few have been elevated to the ranks of SNL - that’s why we don’t hear about the blowback they’ve received. I agree with you - there are many more important things to worry about - like an impending war with Iran, for one.
2
I watched the clip in of Shane Gillis at the center of this issue. It didn't come off as a comedic observation meant in good humor (such as one might hear from Canadian comic Russell Peters). Gillis sounded more like nasty jerk making mean-spirited racist comments and boasting about condescension towards his servers in a Chinese restaurant. It sounded very much like the type of comments Trump would make.
13
Growing up it was ‘polack’ jokes, sleazy black, gay and women jokes, but thank god we’ve grown up some. I watched a couple of his acts to see what the fuss was and didn’t laugh once. He wasn’t funny with his frat-boy mindset and limited view of the world. Maybe the fact that SNL even hired him reflects their limited oversight, and reminds me that having not watched the show in years, I don’t miss it in the least.
6
I hear plenty of Black comics mocking White people. Is that OK Ms. Higgins?
11
So many channels, so many shows. How to capture an audience. SNL used to have more cultural significance because there wasn’t a vast ocean of competition for viewers. Now they need to work harder for the viewers. There was much on TV when SNL first aired that ignored the POV of people who weren’t male and white and a certain flavor of mainstream. But it’s harder to impose your product/brand/culture on others when options are available. Is it cultural censorship if many of us are tired of the privileged white man schtick? To be jeered at and told it’s only a joke? No. We don’t think it is funny and we aren’t watching. Is long stretches of boredom punctuated by spite. Ick. SNL needs viewers. Show has persisted for decades. They’ve done the math. We aren’t required to watch Gillis. SNL isn’t required to employ him. Maybe he could get a gig over at Fox.
4
Shane Gillis may or may not be “funny”. I have no idea and, actually, I don’t care. His name would have remained among the “lesser knowns” to comedy fanboys and whatnot, until SNL decided to not fully vet him and hire him for the show. Some “comic” spent a couple hours and unearthed enough to make Comcast/NBC/Lorne Michaels change their mind. If SNL would have have never brought this guy to my attention, I’’d have never known who he was. He’s no George Carlin — as he claimed.
This isn’t progressive cancel culture. He wasn’t banned from the stage at Stanford or heckled out of Davos. He didn’t get a part on a show. Happens all the time. How many actors and actresses are fired once rehearsals start? That doesn’t seem to warrant this overreaction.
3
Ms. Higgins shows originality with her creation of 'Aliens of Extraordinary Ability', while bringing to mind that behind the greatest of comics, looms the shadow of an invisible weeping willow-tree.
Having attended only one 'Halloween' party for grown-ups in a long lifetime, a dinner reunion of former and new spouses in New York, I have only myself to blame for accepting this dubious invitation. With the organizers of the above, a pair of sharp Siamese cats at work, only the late film-director, Bergman would have been able to pull it together, with dry wit and irony.
Worse. We all received a message of congratulations for good behavior, fine grub and not ending up on the floor, tossing our cookies.
Never having heard of Shane Gillis, it is kindness to remind him that it takes a formidable talent to make an audience laugh, and that 'cultural' jokes have long seen their day. We are living these cultural wars now.
When my brother, Seymour, wrote that after all, we share the same humor, he received a 'No'. Much treasured for his wit and knowledge of vernacular American, he believes that I am a prankster at best, with hidden little fox teeth.
An economist I worked for, on occasion, would choose the dullest line from The WSJ, and make it laughable. When apologizing for salty language overhead on the phone, he indulged in a smile when I ventured he was a 'gifted vulgarian'.
Thanking Ms. Higgins for some beauty, spiced with joy, to the fore of needed comic-relief.
2
Great article. Absolutely dead-on. Thanks, Maeve.
4
Sexism and racism are the tools of a very lazy and uninspired comic. This kind of "humor" panders to the laughs of the lowest common denominator - whose laughter actually epitomizes privilege. At the same time, not everyone who has said or done something offensive deserves to be exiled. One of the reasons so many privileged people refuse to acknowledge their own privilege is that it's currently a zero sum game. The concept of privilege is viewed as the enemy and people hang onto it even more tenaciously. It IS possible, and in fact quite necessary, for people to transform and to change their understanding and beliefs about privilege. This may be optimistic, but SOME people, if given the space and opportunity to develop, can not only change their own understanding of privilege but inspire others to do the same by sharing their stories of transformation.
54
@Meghan
I like your comment except I’m leery of the term “privilege.” As used nowadays the term seems broad and undefined and many people who use the term in its modern sense seem to feel, well, privileged to apply the term as they see fit.
That’s a recipe for trouble. And I don’t see where it’s necessary.
We could talk about equality and discrimination, using those terms in their ordinary sense and in well understood ways, and everyone could weigh in and say what they think from their own perspectives.
We could talk about the consequences of wealth and poverty, using those terms in their ordinary sense, and, in discussions open to all, address how cultural norms that we may take for granted, merit, hard work, and unjust discrimination (also using those terms in their ordinary sense) affect who is wealthy and who is poor.
What do we gain by using the term privilege in its modern sense?
6
@Jack I see you point, and I look at the term privilege a little differently. Privilege is what allows a white person to walk through life with greater ease than a person of color. Things that people of color often have to put up with are not a part of my conscious or subconscious thoughts. Some examples of privilege: Not having to think about putting your wallet on the dashboard every time you get into your car in case you're pulled over because you don't want to be perceived as a threat. You don't get followed around by security when shopping. You're not told to go back to your own country. You're not told how articulate you are as though to be articulate is an anomaly. These are just a few of the many many MANY things people of color have to deal with and think about on a daily basis. If I were a white male, I wouldn't have to worry about drinking too much at a frat party, walking home alone at night, etc... These are examples of the things that privilege affords us.
10
@Meghan
I happily take all your points, except I’m pretty sure we white males have to worry about the various dangers of daily life more than you may imagine.
But mainly I’m making an intellectual point that I think has great practical consequences.
In analytic philosophy school 45 years ago we talked about set theory and logic and “generating” true and false statements.
Using that language, I think we can generate pretty much the same true statements (like the statements you made about problems people of color face that I don’t) both using terms like privilege and using terms like equality or discrimination. But I think we’ll generate many more false statements, or at least many more false statements that are hard to correct in open discussions, when we talk about privilege as compared to when we use terms like equality or discrimination.
And that will lead to the sorts of problems we’re having with modern usage of the term. So help me Bertrand Russell.
3
Get real. This was not a principled decision just a purely economic and business decision by SNL and NBC. And an easy one at that. I’ll start to be impressed by principled stands when they stop booking and showcasing musical talent whose lyrics, and curated public lifestyle and persona glorify and commercially exploit violence, misogyny and racism.
4
Simple question. If this was so gross, how is it so profitable? Simple answer: demand and supply, there are enough buyers (mainly white) of this kind of humor and happy to pay for it.
With respect I disagree. All of this fear of not being politically correct, of not saying anything "offensive," is a disservice to comedy and the historical role it comes from. The jester was the only person who could speak anything to the king and still have his head where it's usually attached to the body the next morning. Yes, comedy can be a crucible, no doubt, but really, we should let the marketplace decide whom they want to listen to. If anything we have forgotten how to laugh, we're so afraid anymore. "All in the Family" wouldn't stand a chance of production now, and that show was genius because it skewered everyone equally and made us realize our own shortcomings as well. Still, I do sympathize with your point of not hearing other voices, we do miss Asian ethnic slurs of white people and the stereotyped view of the West in Islamic comedy. Hearing those may just make us realize people are the same all over.
3
You’re working really hard to elevate racist comedy to a place of political importance. This isn’t Shane Gillis fighting “the man” and getting shouted down for it - he is mocking disenfranchised members of our society. This isn’t “All in the Family”, this is the kind of person that show was calling out for racist behavior.
9
@Patrick but the Jester was punching up at the King or the duke or the pope or whomever, the jester wasn't punching down at those below him.
If we literally hit someone smaller, weaker than us, we are viewed as a bully and/or abusive or violent. But comedy that mocks those in a lesser position is "edgy" and "politically incorrect" or that those offended are "snowflakes".
2
Well put, well written, and right. Thank you.
4
Late to comment here, but I have some thoughts. Everything Gillis said was easily available on line by just searching his name. So nobody at SNL/NBC did that? Not believable. This was manufactured PR, as is this opinion piece, however lovely. Also to note that the SNL talent coordinator Lindsay Snookus suddenly reappeared in tabloid land having apparently shared a dinner table or something more with a couple of famous handsome actors. Show biz.
4
SNL executives had to be asleep at the switch when they invited Gillis into the family. Being funny is not the only requisite to join the ensemble. It's possible to be hilariously funny without being mean-spirited.
2
There are plenty of offensive conservatives. But no funny ones. Forget trying to find a conservative comedian.
1
@Robert F
As a life long liberal I can say with some certainty that conservatives do not have a monopoly on offensiveness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=Ax1U04c4gaw
3
If only he had made fun of Christians, hunters or white people everything would be ok and he'd be welcome with open arms
All comedy is equal, but some comedy is more equal than others.
9
Shane can say whatever he wants on his own podcast, however dumb or mundane. Like the author, I have absolutely no problem with that.
What I have a big problem with is the fact that SNL doesn’t appear to have so much as scratched the surface while vetting this job candidate. Due diligence? Questionable rhetoric and schtick were coming out of this man’s mouth less than a year ago! How could SNL not know about it before hiring him?
SNL is a kingmaker in the comedy world, and thus bears great responsibility in who they choose to elevate. Their gross negligence in this case has handed right wing and libertarian trolls ready-made talking point ammunition at a time when we desperately need to keep the powder dry for bigger and more consequential fights.
And I’m sorry that this self-dealt tempest in a teapot has overshadowed the positive step that SNL has taken in adding Bowen Yang, their first Chinese American comic, to the cast. That kind of inclusive representation matters so much more than what Shane has to say about Chinese people. More of this, please, SNL.
5
What was funny in an era when Lenny Bruce became a martyr and Bob Dylan had to teach Americans that "not much is really sacred" isn't funny in an era where a far meaner and more powerful Don Rickles leads screaming mobs as President of the United States.
It's no surprise that when right-wing racists can't escape accountability with "There isn't a racist bone in my body," they immediately jump to "Sheesh! Nobody has a sense of humor anymore!"
5
Honestly I miss Seinfeld. i miss comedy that has nothing to do with race, sex, gender. I'm not even one of those people yelling at progressives to stop talking about 'identity politics' - I consider myself as progressive as they come. At some point, all the jokes about race etc. just become boring. They are no longer edgy and have not been for a while. They're dull, eye-roll-y, and no longer funny.
Have Kramer stumble into a room. Have Jerry make some joke about, I dunno, a jacket. Turn back to the everyday. That would feel edgy and be a huge relief. And funny!
There was a ton of racial, gender, religious, etc. humor in Seinfeld, and it got criticized by many for its ethnic stereotypes played for laughs. IMO, though, L David and Seinfeld were equal opportunity misanthropes, and since everyone was lampooned mercilessly it avoided these punching up/punching down problems.
2
Remember the episode when Kramer burned the Puerto Rican flag? Or the one where the gang thought that Elaine was dating a black guy? Or the episode in which they repeatedly referenced being gay by saying "not that there's anything wrong with it"? Or the Festivus/Kwanzaa episode? It would take a willful denial of reality to ignore the satirical content of the Seinfeld show. Watch it again and see for yourself.
2
It's interesting to see all the "what about Richard Pryor/Eddie Murphy" comments. Shane Gillis isn't those guys. For a start, he's not funny. Additionally, he's not black. If you think neither of those things matter then you're not defending comedy: you're defending white supremacy.
5
@dan
They are obviously responding to the idea, repeated in the article, that comedy is dominated by straight white men and the sort of comedy that offends originates with them. To dispute that point of the article is hardly "white supremacy."
3
Since when does anybody have a “right” to be cast on Saturday Night Live? Yes, if you work on a show for years and some minor controversy emerges your tenure might help you skate. But when you are hired and haven’t even started working yet? Come on.
1
Gillis getting fired is simply the marketplace at work. All's fair and he's not entitled to a job.
The author here complains that she is at a disadvantage because of her gender. I guess she doesn't believe in equality.
2
Simply an excellent column ... and nothing funny about it.
Of course all of the talk of "punching up" goes out the door when you realize how arbitrary the notion of who is "up" and who is "down".
E.g., poor white people, a popular target of comedians for years. In fact, Jon Stewart et al's favorite target.
Poor rural white males have the highest suicide rate in the country; while poor rural whites (male and female) are dealing with epidemic drug addition, poverty, and marginalization.
But it's OK for rich boys like Jon Stewart to mock them.
I'm sorry, I just can't get around the flagrant hypocrisy and selectivity of the cancel culture, which was, after all, birthed in elite colleges and among the children of the wealthy.
4
I’d love to hear *one* example of John Stewart making fun of “poor white people” as a group. (I’m not talking about making fun of some poor white people who are sexist, racist, ignorant, etc, since they don’t represent all poor white people.) so please, share with us an example of Stewart mocking people because they are poor and white.
Signed,
former poor white person
2
@John Lawrence "I’m not talking about making fun of some poor white people who are sexist, racist, ignorant, etc,"
Nice qualifier. These are exactly the stereotypes of poor white people. Give me an example!... just not one of the actual examples.
2
You are confused. There is a difference between mocking a category of people vs mocking a specific person exhibiting specific, mockable traits. The later is acceptable, the former is bigotry. Eg, “Chinese people talk funny” has no specific satirical target.
If Stewart mocks a person who happens to be poor and white for saying something racist, that says nothing about poor white people in general—ironically it is you, in your supposed defense of “poor white people” who is making the connection to the stereotype.
Unlike an individual standup routine in a comedy club, SNL is a business, a hierarchical team effort with writers, lawyers, actors, supported by a fully functioning nationwide network with sponsors, shareholders all worried about national ratings and keeping eyes on their product.
The individual comedian worries about their set, whether they will bomb, and if there is any negative fallout from their routine it's very much contained to that person. SNL does not have that luxury.
Being a business, SNL ran the numbers, reviewed the risks, balanced the pros and cons and decided the risk of keeping Gillis was not worth it.
2
The first and main point is Shane Gillis isn't funny. It's just too easy and lazy to rehash old jokes with slurs from the early 20th century about the Chinese and Chinatown; Gay people and Jewish people. His routines have nothing new and original.
The second point is why would Gillis and his comic defenders argue for freedom of speech when it comes to slurs about Chinese Americans / Asian Americans but they stand down when it's racist slurs about other ethnic groups? Asian Americans don't count, don't matter?
8
How is it possible that in 2019 public platforms such as SNL and The Emmys don't spend an ounce of energy to vet their prospective employees? The information they need in order to make a hiring decision is right there online for everyone to view, yet they don't bother. Perhaps they should invest in an HR department, like every other company in the world. They'd experience fewer bad decisions blowing up in their faces, making them look like complete morons when they back-pedal, over and over again. On the other hand, maybe they actually do have a procedure in place, except they've hired the same people who advised Dior to feature Native Americans next to the title "Sauvage," and were responsible for Gucci's blackface sweater, and Prada's blackface fiasco, and Dolce & Gabbana's "slave sandal." These insults were referred to by the companies as "learning moments," but the moments are piling up, and no learning has been done. If only there were some form of action that customers could take to express their disgust with these "gaffs." Brings to mind tales of a historical figure, one Captain Charles Boycott...
1
Let's be honest: SNL is not exactly bereft of insulting comedy or punching down. Kristin Wiig became famous in part by mocking people with birth defects and lower class wage earners stuck in retail jobs. We laughed when Buck Henry played a perv who snapped polaroids of Gilda Radner and Lorraine Newman playing grade school girls who are tricked into pulling up their dresses, or when Alec Baldwin was a perv scout leader trying to temp a boy scout played by Adam Sandler. Not exactly punching up, is that?
Ms. Higgins seems to suggest that such humor is the exclusive birthright of white males. She may be right, I don't know. I do know, however, that mocking "rednecks" is still OK on most stages, and not just from white comedians. Will sauce for the goose be sauce for the gander? We shall see...
3
Aristophanes weeps for you, Meave.
1
It's about consistency. No white comedian would dare call Cory Booker or Kamala Harris racial slurs and call it comedy. Or poke fun of African Americans in the Bronx and call them racial slurs and call it comedy.
So what is the basis that Asians should just be quiet and stop being crybabies, in the name of comedy? There is none. And if you try, you will get caught up in even more hypocrisies.
4
Thanks. Yes.
Comedy that relies on putting others down, from a position of power/privilege, is lazy. Don’t confuse this laughs based on insults from the satirical and piercing social commentary from the likes of Pryor, Murphy, Chappell, Rock, etc. Their origin and purpose is different.
Perhaps a joke about Christ being a gay pedophile may bring things into focus for some of the first amendments and art folks. It’s just art, right?
1
I'm sick of cheesey comics anyway. Too many of them and they're all looking for their own godawful NBC series. I really laugh when their careers blow up like Louis CK and this twerp. That's funny.
1
Honestly? This whole thing isn't funny anymore.
Saying racist/sexist/whatever-ist was never really funny and most of the stuff that isn't either goes on for about a minute too long or is just stupid.
Maybe I'm too old or too traumatized or too something else but I don't see anything in the world that is really funny anymore.
1
I understand your anger with this guy but why turn everything into white guy bashing.
Have you never heard of Lucy, Phyllis Diller, Carol Burnett, Cher, Redd Fox, Richard Prior, Chris Rock and All of the fabulous Jewish comedians.
7
I am hoping that Bowen Yang will make his debut on SNL by opening the show on this season's first episode. The writers and producers have a spectacular moment on their hands if they can make the most of it. As Paul Reubens said when he returned to his Pee Wee Herman character after that "hiatus", "Heard any good jokes lately?"
Some comics are too lazy to take the time to use their intellect.
Tracy Morgan's penultimate show on HBO was terrible. The entire hour was peppered with sweats, curses and sexual references. The same for Amy Schumer. She gave her fans an hour in Netflix that was about her vagina and sex. But both comics redeemed themselves at their last shows, especially Tracy Morgan. He was so funny that I gained a new level of respect for him.
I am not a prude and I am not against comics being R rated, but gratuitous profanity and offensive barbs are never funny. I enjoyed Dave Chappelle's new Netflix show even if it was controversial.
But what I have heard of Shane Gillis comedy it sounded like he was being lazy and offensive... just because. If a junior high school student said that about another student he would be accused of being a bully. Gillis needs to up his game and stop taking cheap shots. He does not deserve to be on SNL.
1
Taking a cue from the Dalai Lama, "when we come across problems, when we suffer.. we learn these virtues. Once we internalize them, compassion flows naturally.” Shane Gillis has certainly suffered. His persona should not be defined by a regrettable moment of indecency. I bristled heavily at it, yet hope that SNL's decision to fire was based on some broader revelations of poor character, and not just the media storm. Compassion and a chance to move forward and grow is my hope for Shane, and I look forward to an opportunity to witness his strong talent put to great ends.
Reading this opinion piece makes me grateful for two things:
- Mel Brooks lived in a time when he was able to produce his body of work, for which I believe the world is a better place; and
- I can vote with my viewership and freely choose Dave over Maeve. Chappelle’s recent Netflix special predates the Gillis controversy but stands as a compelling, self-contained counterpoint nonetheless.
7
SNL isn't funny. It's what Ivy League-writers room-sketch comedy actors think is funny. The lineups at the Comedy Store in L.A. or The Comedy Cellar in NYC on any night of the week are a million times funnier than SNL. Leave if you don't like it. Just like changing the radio station.
5
I find myself sharing Ms. Higgins's sense of disgust at the forms of humor Gillis and other comics purvey but also wondering exactly what the solution is. Should people only laugh at the jokes Ms. Higgins finds acceptable? Is that how this works? She is correct that this is not censorship. This is a marketplace story, and NBC has the right to hire or not hire comics based on whether they think it is good for their bottom line. That is partly what led the network to diversify SNL in the first place, not some vague notion of political correctness. The one thing I would dispute is that the firing of Gillis was not part of the broader phenomena called "cancel culture." On the point I would demur.
2
While I don’t care if Shane Gillis was fired from his SNL gig enough to listen to his podcast or get worked up about the freedom of speech implications, some of the author’s statements about white male privilege in comedy ring hollow. I have no knowledge about what machinations/barriers may accompany an attempt to break into the world of stand up, but I do know that if you’re funny once you get there, and draw audiences, and make money for whomever promotes comedic appearances, then you’ll find work and possibly fame. While it may be the case that there are proportionately fewer women and people of color in comedy, it is also the case that comedy was one of the early color barrier breakers. Bill Cosby (yes, he was a pioneer), Richard Prior, Bernie Mac, and more recently Chris Rock and Kevin Hart, among many others, including Hispanic comics and women, have shown that it matters less what color or gender you are than that you can tell jokes that a diverse audience find to be funny. If you don’t make people laugh, you won’t be successful. Edgy isn’t just making people cringe, it’s making people think, at least people unlike yourself, in a new way that puts a spotlight on issues such as racial privilege. When Chris Rock pointed out that there wasn’t a white person in the audience that would trade places with him, and he’s rich, it framed the issue in a way that was inescapable, and we are all better off for it.
6
SNL’s choice of stand up comedians is interesting. Only the host does stand up. The best performers like Kate McKinnon are great actors.
1
Freedom of speech is not dead, privacy is. We live in an age of self-sensor because everything we say, outside of our own heads, can be recorded and sent all over the world. Access to the bits and pieces destroys context. We judge a person we don't know and never met based on seconds or a few minutes and determine their character. I don't know the comic who is the subject of this column but he is a cautionary note to think hard before you go before a camera, microphone or keyboard.
The irony is that our president has given us unprecedented access to his head, holds nothing back, is obviously not fit for the job but we can't seem to fire him.
4
I always find the most successful comedy to be when comedians talk about themselves or a group they belong to.
It's something most white men don't do. To me at least, their comedy seems to be more mean spirited and designed to put others down.
I'm not a huge fan of comedy for this very reason.
5
When Pete Davidson belittled Dan Crenshaw, in a tasteless cheap shot on SNL, they had Crenshaw the following week with Davidson in a very funny exchange. I thought it was the perfect way in which to handle Davidson's mindless jabs at Crenshaw's eye patch. Everyone walked away a little more knowledge about who Crenshaw is beyond his politics. Whether Shane Gillis is funny or not, I have no idea. What I do know is that SNL missed an opportunity to open a dialogue through comedy about racism, marginalizing, and what is or is not funny.
6
Missed an opportunity? Here we are talking about it! SNL did the right thing
I'm sorry, but the arts need to be completely free, even if there is always the risk they might offend someone. Something that both left-wing and right-wing tyrannies do is clamp down on artistic freedom. We see this happening throughout the arts today, with painters, poets, comedians, and others, being told what they can and cannot do. Stop the censorship and stop the virtue signaling. Art must be unconditionally free.
11
Everyone in the USA has the right to tell their favorite jokes and express their opinions.
There is NO Constitutionally guaranteed right to headline a major network television show.
See the difference?
Executive Producers, sponsors and viewers have rights, too.
15
Yeah, but art should be artful. Did you watch the routine? What a dumb act.
1
Well I am not laughing. Did I miss something, or were Higgins's sneers at straight white men supposed to be funny? Really, Higgins should find some new material.
There is nothing in the world quite as unfunny as a woke joke. So enjoy real comedy while you can -- that is until woke is all that is permitted any longer.
13
Oh, please. Another male fragile ego hurt? She is right on point. Most white male humor these days is about their penises and its adventures and bodily functions, something most people outgrow but some comics never do.
4
How do you feel about Chappelle's recent Netflix special, Ms. Higgins? Just curious.
7
In the old days, Christian conservatives railed against the obscenity in what comedians like Richard Pryor said. Today, it is our woke progressives who can't take a joke. Amazing how things have gone 180 on speech.
14
Comedians: fighters of the powerful.
2
This is a total non-event. A man was able to say exactly what was on his mind and was at zero risk of being arrested or censored by the government. That man was fired from a non-government job because what he said wasn't funny, and they wanted funny people.
A total non-event. You aren't entitled to your job. Grow up.
33
If this piece is satirical victimology, then it is brilliant.
If sincere, it is mediocre at best.
5
Don't tell Maeve about Richard Prior or Eddie Murphy...
6
I enjoy cutting edge humor (Lenny Bruce, Eddie Murphy, etc.), but Gillis obviously has nothing special.
Honestly, the funniest thing was seeing him getting whacked so quickly. It would be great material for another comic to do a routine about that- Gillis should be able to handle the irony, right?
7
I don’t know what’s worse in a comedian: mockery or moralism. It’s really a toss up. The former doesn’t take himself seriously enough; he plays for the cheap laughs of frat house neanderthals. The latter takes herself too seriously, mistaking standup for Aristophanes.
3
Too many “stand ups “ . Not enough “funny”.
3
Some jokes aren't funny. Some comedians aren't funny. If you don't like the joke or the comedian don't listen. But denying a person a career because 'bullying ' or 'not enough diversity' is wrong.
3
Look at his comments. Just hurtful. That is why he was fired.
He denied himself his good career for saying stupid stuff!
I'm still trying to understand how The Simpsons caricature of Scottish Groundskeeper Willie is a howling success while at the same time the caricature of Indian Apu is a shameful stereotype that everyone should apologize for laughing at.
14
I lasted 9 years in comedy. Did the festivals. Did TV. Did the travel thing. Everything I was able to accomplish was largely due to having a lone female club manager who believed in my talent & work ethic, because the old white men running clubs largely did not. The last 3 years I did comedy was spent trying to justify all the awfulness in the profession as being the price of the amazing feeling of connection onstage. Female comics have to be cleaner, nicer, funnier, & have the thickest skin imaginable to make it in comedy. If women want more female voices in comedy, then women have to show up to support those voices, because white male audiences love what?- white male comics with lazily relatable material that does, indeed, often punch down. Often, the smartest comedy I see comes from black male comics, because they, too, have to work 4x as hard to be heard. If a white male on the same level punched down like Chappelle did in his latest special, no one would have said a word. Comedy is a small world, & it's very white & very male. I'm glad someone held this one accountable, but he'll be milking his mistakes for a receptive audience like C.K. in no time, because notoriety trumps decency, (& often talent), in our culture these days.
I'm in school now to teach. A captive audience, health benefits, & a steady paycheck, (all without a 2-drink minimum), sounds pretty good these days!
11
Is the piety of political correctness now going too far in comedy?
3
Well said, Ms. Higgins, Well said.
4
Whenever I hear a comedian or one of his (because it’s almost always a man) supporters say that it’s just a joke, I hear every bully I’ve known say “Why can’t you take a joke?” We all know the difference between a joke and that which is meant to hurt, demean and humiliate. Cruelty is often the hidden motive of this type of humor. It’s not funny if it’s cruel, plain and simple.
11
It's good to know that the standup comedy world is as much of a fetid identity swamp as many other subcultures.
1
Brilliant. Thank you for speaking up. I totally agree!
3
Humorous is absolutely relative:
9. Young Einstein was a dashing a play boy.
8. Elder Einstein with stereotypical white hair wore a hearing aid,
7. Elvis Aaron Presley’s mother was rumored of Jewish descent, which is kind of ironic considering such as
Andy Kaufman’s mockery
6. Timeless: meanwhile back at the oasis Arabs were
eating their dates
Lenny Bruce - George Carlin - Andrew Dice Clay - Kevin Hart - Dave Chappelle - Shane Gillis. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I agree with Ms Higgins. Here’s the thing as well: you can be funny without being misogynistic, racist or anti Semitic. Hate is lazy. Bullies are are boring. Creativity is exciting even when it’s a work in progress.
It’s also ironic that SNL actually took a stand. Nora Dunn took a huge hit to her career for standing up against Andrew Dice Clay hosting. He had no business being there, he’s not in the same category as Tom Hanks or Steve Martin. It was an insult to the women in the cast and the audience.
7
Thank you, Ms. Higgins. Well said.
2
Shane is one of those 65% American who don't have passport and probably never been out of continental USA. And is 100% sure he does not which part of Europe is granddaddy is from or how did he crossed Atlantic and for what. i am sure he is not of native American descent. need to educate these kind person.
2
@Trevor Diaz - Keep in mind that many U.S. citizens don't travel internationally simply because it's financially impossible for them to do so, not to mention that they may not be able to take time from their jobs.
I tend to think of the ability to travel, internationally or domestically, as an opportunity, rather than an accomplishment, which you appear to see it as.
Do you really think it's fair to generalize about 65% of U.S. citizens simply to make a point about one man?
This article raised some good points for me as I do struggle with the line of how far comics should go. I remember a show by Jimmy Car when he made fun of people with ginger hair. The joke was based around stereotypes, and was well crafted and funny... but being someone of that "colouring" I was really offended by the nasty point of his joke and feared it would re-iterate perhaps a view people had of myself and people who look like me (prefer not repeat the joke here).
That being said I do watch other standup from guys like Dave Chapelle and Bill Burr make fun of other groups and do get a good chuckle out of how risque and accurate their observations are of other types of people who I have had the same thoughts about.
As we get more politically correct and censored with what we are allowed to say in the real world, it seems we are giving comics a free pass to help us vent some of the things we observe but never dare say ourselves. I think its okay for comics to push the line, so long as they are not marginalising a group of people, especially if they are already repressed and easy targets, there is nothing clever about that sort of humour.
There is a giant straw man at the center of this op-ed:
"if the most absorbing and insightful thing Mr. Gillis and his buddies have to sound off on is that they find Chinatown to be ugly, then by all means, go right on ahead."
"The problem is when Mr. Gillis — and the others like him — frame their words as bold and boundary pushing and brave."
Who really believes that Gillis thought his jokes were absorbing and insightful? A joke is a joke. It's not Ulysses.
And when and where did he - or anyone defending him - frame the jokes as bold and boundary pushing and brave?
1
@Chris Here's where: https://www.thewrap.com/new-snl-cast-member-shane-gillis-responds-to-outcry-over-racist-jokes-im-a-comedian-who-pushes-boundaries/
In essence,"I push boundaries and sometimes I miss."
All that matters for a comedian is: is it funny or not?
Not the philosophical questions the material might or might not answer and certainly not the probing of people who "go around just looking for insults" to quote Barack Obama.
George Carlin would be having a filed day with all this pc nonsense now.
2
Brilliant. Thanks Maeve.
1
Apologies are good. Insight is better. He can make fun of his own whiteness long before it's OK to use racial slurs. They just aren't necessary, unless he's struggling for material, in which case he can't really be very funny, can he?
2
The only real loser here is comedy. Comedians must fail, a lot, to eventually reach some level of success. Once we start taking away their ability to make fun of themselves and others, they lose the space they need to take risks. I don't care that Mr. Gillis made crude jokes and neither should anyone else. The list of comedians, black, white, asian, latino, etc., who have made crude jokes is long and distinguished. This is yet another example of PC culture run amok. Honestly, SNL isn't funny, so perhaps Mr. Gillis is the lucky one.
4
This seems silly to me. Maybe it’s just as simple as this: the comedians that become popular are the ones more people want to listen to. I certainly have no interest in listening to woke political-activist comedy. I’m going to use an offensive word now: give me normal, please.
4
Is it really funny to call people names? Shouldn’t some complexity of thought be involved? But then, I haven’t found anyone funny since Richard Pryor and George Carlin. Well, maybe John Oliver.
Maeve's belief that comedy has been historically dominated by straight, white men illustrates her extreme ignorance of the history of the craft and the group she claims she is a part of. She is discrediting and disregarding the great contributions of African Americans and Jewish people in stand up comedy. Comedy is not about bullying or keeping the little man down, it's about speaking truth to power. Maeve Higgins is a very good storyteller but not a stand up comedian.
5
Ms Higgins writes: "The problem is when Mr. Gillis — and the others like him — frame their words as bold and boundary pushing and brave."
Fair enough. But here's how Comedy Central defended Trevor Noah when they decided to take no action over his racially charged tweets about white women's bodies and rich Jewish people:
“Like many comedians, Trevor Noah pushes boundaries;
he is provocative and spares no one, himself included. To judge him or his comedy based on a handful of jokes is unfair. Trevor is a talented comedian with a bright future at Comedy Central.”
Double standards?
13
Dave Chappell didn't like being censored on one network, so he took his product elsewhere. Now that is freedom.
2
What a lovely article. Thank you.
How soon we forget Foster Brooks.
He was funny, once. But the society soured on alcoholism as a thing to laugh at and that sort of thing faded away. Society moves on and maybe that's whats happening now.
There's a new Sheriff in town, and SHE'S funny!
2
Shane Gillis has learned a lesson here, and so can many others.
Earlier this week, I re-read Flowers for Algernon, the short story by Daniel Keyes that in 1968 was made into the film Charly, which earned Cliff Robertson an Academy Award for Best Actor.
In the film, the protagonist, Charlie Gordon, goes from a state of mental retardation to a state of awareness, in which he realizes that his “just for laffs” buddies are actually tormenting and abusing him for their own entertainment. By the end of the story, when Charlie’s intelligence has faded to its original level, the buddies seem to have learned something, and they stop a newly-arrived bully from tormenting Charlie again.
It won’t hurt Mr. Gillis to brush up his sense of common humanity, and in time he should qualify for a second chance. But he was rightly called out for obnoxious behavior, and whining just makes it worse.
5
Far beyond standup comedy, throughout entertainment and the arts, the trick of framing one’s work as “bold and boundary pushing and brave” has for decades served to advance mediocre careers while trashing culture high and low.
From urinal-centric art objects to movies that are the first to use some noxious word or image, daringness has been a ticket to public notice and even critical recognition. It’s a reliable device for setting one piece of hackwork apart from the rest; and critics, or at least reviewers, must find it easier to hail newness and anger than to discern excellence.
Today the fashion is rebellion against political correctness. Once it was rebellion against middle-class morality. Perhaps because the harm has been apparent to different people at different times, we as a society have failed to reject such “trick art” in principle.
If we’d really like to stop the corrosion, the first thing to do is to rehabilitate the concept of taste. The second is to form the habit of listening for things that are better than echoes of our own voices; at least, not worse.
3
This whole thing about "punching down" is not something stand up comedy pioneers such as Lenny Bruce, Carlin, prior or Joan Rivers came up with but rather a nonsensical "woke" coda popular among progressive college crowd that has seeped in to the mainstream.
The basis for "woke" argument that comedy shouldn't be about "punching down" is closely related to "woke" ideas about specific groups and their unique oppression , (always at the hand of straight white male) and thus their "protected class" status afforded to them among progressives.
This is all nonsense.
There is a reason why legendary comics such as Seinfeld and Chris Rock won't tour colleges nowadays.
"wokeness" runs counter to the ethos of good stand up comedy.
24
Truly the most inane, clueless explanation of comedy I’ve ever ever heard. Pioneers of comedy challenge authority, status quo, cultural norms, ideas, beliefs; all those woke ideas you seem to believe are antithetical to great art.
7
"So many would-be comics — women, people of color, other marginalized groups — are silenced from the beginnings of their careers. Despite their talent and work ethic, they leave the industry and take their brilliance elsewhere, or perhaps nowhere."
Perhaps these half-baked rookies aren't as funny as you wish they were. Audiences aren't connecting to them the way they do do to Dave Chappelle, Kevin Hart or Jerry Seinfeld.
20
The insight that comedy often involves ridicule, humiliation, and belittlement is no news flash, and the truth of the matter is that some targets are social no-go zones, and some are ok. The president, for example, is mercilessly ridiculed - and whether it's justified or not (it often is, but is it ok to make fat jokes if somebody really IS fat?), that's how stand-up comedy works. I usually find that sort of 'comedy' clumsily and discomfortably unfunny - and observe that nowadays, it's more a way to release aggression against socially-acceptable targets in a group setting than ha ha funny. On the other hand, there's endlessly inventive and clever comedy that avoids this late-night-style 'humor', but if your comedy involves making fun of people in today's culture, better make sure it's one of the groups it's ok to ridicule, bully and humiliate. Or else.
6
"I host a show every Monday in Brooklyn with two of my friends. Our producer makes sure the lineup isn't just straight white people, and that makes the show a lot better than most of the ones I've been part of for the past 14 years. I don't mean that any one type of person is funnier or more insightful than another. What I mean is that when just one voice is heard, that voice quickly becomes boring."
Brooklyn thanks you for your moral superiority, and for understanding the fundamental truth that all "straight white people", whether women or men, young or old, from Albuquerque or Albania, who are Baha'i, Buddhist, Christian, Confucian, Hindu, Jain, Jewish, Muslim, Shinto, Sikh, Taoist, or Zoroastrianist, or none of the above, such as atheists, all speak with "just one voice". For further clarifying that all such "straight white people" are exactly the same by virtue of their skin color alone, which is why they can only speak with only one singular "voice (which) quickly becomes boring."
Glad it's been made clear by the author that she has nothing whatsoever to do with cancel culture, bigotry, or stereotyping people in any way.
“A little real bravery wouldn’t hurt.” Well said. Too bad it isn't applied here. The piece has nothing to do with Shane Gillis's incredibly offensive humor, and everything to do with all the tiny "cancel culture" boxes the author rams various people into by virtue of their skin color alone, even if they've little to nothing in common with each other.
56
I think comics deserve a lot of lattitude and bad jokes should be taken with a grain of salt. We would have found out pretty shortly if Gillis was funny or not. Now we won't. It seems a shame given he was obviously good enough to land the job. Anyway, sketch comedy is different than standup and SNL also relies a lot on doing impressions. He might have been very good at it. Now we won't know. What we do know is that comics will start holding back. One cautionary tale is the newspaper business, which I worked in for many years. As newspapers became stockholder-driven single-city monopolies, newspaper managers sent in from corporate HQ began to deaden coverage by carefully paring away any reporting that might be deemed controversial. Controversy was deemed bad for business, which they defined as generating ad revenue. The Onion carefully chronicled what came next as local coverage slowly lost its credibility and descended into earnest farce. So I wonder what's going to happen when comedians stop testing boundaries and start holding back. My guess is the bar will be lowered and comedians won't be very funny anymore.
6
The only thing honest about Gillis's 'apology' is that most of his comedy over the last ten years has been bad. How he got serious consideration at SNL, much less selection, seems mind boggling until you stop and think about how tired and complacent the people in charge of it have become. (This wasn't even a Trump Transition Team level of vetting,) He remains quite able to continue punching down and saying whatever lazy and tiresome stuff he wants and likely will be coining money henceforward from his sad target audience.
12
At least in the near future, Shane Gillis will probably be more famous for SNL's decision to revoke its offer than for his comedic talent and professional experience. A progressive liberal, I most likely will not like Gillis' jokes.
But I really do not like that SNL apparently did not vet this performer properly before hiring him and announcing that hiring decision. Gillis was good enough to pass rigorous audition process.
Why didn't SNL take additional measures to insure that potential cast members' recent (within the last 5 years) actions or statements are not a threat to the show's reputation?
4
To Maeve,
Well done! Especially this well-stated analysis:
The problem is when Mr. Gillis — and the others like him — frame their words as bold and boundary pushing and brave.
24
When we as a society start being seriously concerned about gun violence, versus poor comedy, politically correct comedy, etc., then maybe there is hope for this country, and its inner cities. Why does Sean Diddy Combs get to fire a gun in a vehicle, and Jay Z get to kill someone, yet they get to appear numerous times on Saturday Night Live? That is the problem, in that looking for the speck, (inappropriate comedy) when we should be dealing with logs(major issues like gun violence) is what is wrong with this country in the current climate, etc. Maybe, the fact that I am 71, like Seinfeld reruns, when that show wouldn't even make it out of the gate today in this climate, makes me wonder, if we are going backwards.
17
I can't care about this stuff anymore. The Twitter mobs have worn me out with ceaseless bellyaching. I don't even explore what a person is accused of anymore because it's virtually never worth the frothing rage people work themselves into.
Separately, I see comedy as an especially sacred part of free speech. How many world powers in human history have allowed citizens -- anyone -- to freely exercise the right to ridicule? The fact that a peon on a stage with a microphone and spotlight can say just about anything about anyone -- from himself all the way up to the most powerful man on Earth (the President) -- really means something about how truly free we all are. It's easy to look flippantly at something as seemingly trivial as comedy, but the way I see it, comedy is a distillation of our free speech rights, presented as light entertainment. Even the bad comedy. Threats to its free exercise ought to be taken very seriously.
38
Comics have the right of free speech. They can say whatever they want, talk dirty, bully, offend. SNL has the right to hire or fire them. In this context, a comic’s speech is commercial - no one has a right to be on SNL. The government can’t “cancel” the comic but a commercial enterprise can make its decisions about an employee’s speech affects it.
5
Comedy runs a fine line between funny and bullying. To be relevant boundaries have to be pushed away. Lines get crossed, sometimes on purpose, sometimes a thread that goes bad. The best humor holds up a mirror and catches a unique twist of the familiar.
Derogatory remarks may gain attention but few comedians can pull it off and still be funny. Otherwise, making fun of someone or a group is what bullies do and only other bullies find that funny.
8
Roy Wood Jr, everybody!
- Trevor Noah
I’m a big fan of his, and I’m happy to hear this slice of insight into his artistry. Thank you for your writing; I’ll have to try to catch your show the next time I’m in town.
3
Should professional boxers be penalized for punching one another in the ring?Didn't the audience pay and come to expect violence in that dedicated venue?They can express offense at that violence but would they have the right to ban the boxers from earning their livelyhood?Entering voluntarily the controlled and dedicated comedic environment implies acceptance of the "risky" terms and conditions.If it's too hot get out of the kitchen.If pornography bothers you don't watch.
8
Exactly. SNL decided it wanted to be watched not turned off.
@John
Actually boxers get penalized all the time when what they do within the ring falls outside of certain perimeters. And if the promoters decide that a boxer is more trouble than he's worth he won't get a chance to fight at all. If you decide to make a living telling racist and homophobic jokes you should know that your chances of a career on network tv are going to be very limited. He can tell any kind of joke he wants and if you like that sort of thing you are welcome to go hear him. It just won't be on SNL.
1
Comedy is reflexive. It’s involuntary. It’s funny or it’s not. Comedians should push boundaries and limits just as other artists do. I don’t see color or gender in comedy. Comedians make us laugh or they don’t. If a comedian offends us - treat it like a song or a painting we don’t like. Turn it off. Just move on and find what you do like.
9
"What I mean is that when just one voice is heard, that voice quickly becomes boring." The idea that all voices from one hastily assembled class are in effect one voice is a truly demented, not to mention boring and alienating, position to take up. Using a blithely dehumanising quip as part of a piece of writing trying to argue against dehumanising comedy is so absurd that it becomes actually funny. "Sometimes, the funniest thing about comedy is how seriously people take it." Yeah, you're right.
11
@Nicholas Point taken. However, while the writer exaggerates to make her point, you simplify to make yours. There are differences between, and within, groups. Diverse representation is important.
4
I would hate to live in a world without edgy stand-up comedy; especially the kind of brilliant comedy Netflix currently isn't afraid to touch. They show comedians who dare to explore sensitive, touchy, controversial subjects like race and gender - in a way that challenges people to think more deeply about the subject matter more deeply. That's the whole point. Muzzling such material - the M.O of this article - is akin to the old tradition of burning books that zealots felt offended their religious or personal sensitivities. I want no part of that world.
16
No. Maeve draws a clear distinction between comedy that draws fresh insight and dumb racist humor, which does not. She also specifically says that comics can go around saying anything they want; she just may not need to hear it. What “muzzling”? Talk to us when you’ve read the article.
There is no real comedy anymore. Back in the 1950s we had Sid Caesar, Imogene Coca, Red Skelton, Jackie Gleason, etc. They knew how to be really funny without offending anyone but themselves. I was recently on a cruise where they had a lady comedienne performing. Every joke was either about sex or body functions. She starting complaining that she was getting no response from the audience. Someone forgot to tell her that the average age of the audience was in the 70s and people that age expect quality comedy.
8
@Aaron Adams Comedians who complain about a lack of positive audience response need to complain as they're exiting the stage. It's the comedic equivalent of "Please clap."
4
Love Maeve Higgins!!! Read her book "Maeve in America: Essays by a Girl from Somewhere Else". She's funny, woke and so human. Absolutely on target with this as usual. Rock on Maeve.
8
Comcast, owner of NBC, has no desire to tick off too many people. Because that hurts the bottom line. This is why Saturday Night Live lost its edginess years ago. Instead, we get caricatures of politicians. It's okay to make fun of them, especially if they're Republicans.
6
Comedy and Drama have never been completely separate as they shift from one to the next according to the times and perceptions of writers and viewers. Shakespearean comedies have always had elements of the serious built into them whether intentional or not. Al Franken lost his position in the Senate for things that were thought harmless or funny at the time. Bill Cosby a very funny man and revered for it now sits in prison for abusive acts against women. In the age of Trump we alternately laugh at portrayals of him, Alex Baldwin style, or rage at his perversions. Our very perceptions of the world is shifting and comedy reflects that deep shift.
1
Bravo. This is spot on. Thank you. In the comments, the mens are at it again! Defending the past. Time to move on, boys, and make way for the rest of us.
30
This culture is even more addicted to labels than any one preceding it; the difference is that the labels are ones that people happily apply to themselves. Everyone has a checklist of identity groups to which they belong, without ever questioning whether such labels are accurate or appropriate;. now that would be ripe fodder for a humorous investigation! It's mindless allegiance to categories set up by someone, somewhere, sometime, and having much to do with marketing, that has paralyzed almost all discourse in this society.
14
"Despite their talent and work ethic, they leave the industry and take their brilliance elsewhere, or perhaps nowhere." Who are you to judge comedic "brilliance"? Only audiences and the marketplace can do this.
26
"Comedy, like so many of our cultural institutions, remains dominated by men, usually straight and white men."
That's true, white men certainly play a major role in contemporary comedy, but it's a bit simplistic to say this without some context--and I think it also misses the point of this incident. In the list of the top ten highest grossing comedians over the past five years, four are black males - Kevin Hart, Dave Chapelle, Chris Rock, and Trevor Noah - two are Indian men - Aziz Ansari and Russell Peters - and one is a Latin American male - Gabriel Iglesias. Actually, Kevin Hart has either been number 1 or 2 on the list of the higest grossing comedian over the past five years. All males, sure, and apparently all straight. But not white.
I think you pretty much summarized the situation best when you said his act was, in a word, lazy. Was it another example of white privilege? Maybe. But I'm not really convince. One thing that puzzles me about your column, however, is that you dismiss "cancell culture". Even Dave Chapelle doesn't allow cell phones in his show for a reason.
20
Sorry but, mocking and cracking jokes about others including one's self is at the heart of stand up comedy. Most comics are equally opportunity offenders. It's the audience who has changed, no one gives the performer the benefit of a doubt anymore that it's all in good fun. Relax people.
31
@Jeff Remember the Michael Richards meltdown? Understand why that wasn't OK? Apply that lesson here.
7
The thing is, comedy that mocks people within the boundaries of their racial or other identity is almost never funny. It’s puerile and boring. Read some great American humorists, the Dorothy Parkers and James Thurbers of the world. Their wit cast a wide net and they never found it necessary mock people based on stereotypes. Their mocking had a much higher bar.
8
SNL has become painful to watch. So I don't. Maybe, when I hear that they are funny again, after a yearlong drought, I will give it a try again.
13
I feel like the biggest flaw in Shane Gillis' mindset that directly pertains to his qualifications for being on SNL, is that his comedy seems to be made only with a straight white audience in mind. It's a part of the larger cultural view that straight white men are what's normal, and everyone else (women, gays, racial minorities, etc) are some sort of specialty groups who don't really count. When you write and perform comedy for a national audience, you need to be aware as well as actually care how the Asians and other minorities are going to react to your humor- not just the straight white guys.
56
If comedians (Who can variously, and serially or simultaneously, be word/idea comics, physical comics; also called jesters or clowns.) by definition and self-identification, should be granted the right to make bigoted statements and to freely explore bigoted ideas, does that mean that all bigots are comedians (or jesters or clowns)?
If we, the audience, willing or un-willing, of comedians (or jesters or clowns) , must accept the rights or privileges of comedians to make bigoted statements and to freely explore bigoted ideas, does that mean we, the audience, willing or un-willing, must accept the rights of bigots to assert the rights of comedians (or jesters or clowns)?
Conversely, since comedians (or jesters or clowns) are self-defined as such (regardless of if anyone actually finds them funny), aren't we, the audience, also entitled to call ourselves comedians? And as such, aren't we, the audience, also entitled to make bigoted statements, and explore bigoted ideas, about comedians and bigots?
Therefore, can't we, the audience, demand that comedians and bigots either laugh, when we make bigoted statements and explore bigoted ideas about them, or just shut up and take it?
Can you guess who my audience is, at the moment?
1
@Robert Henry Eller All dogs are mammals; therefore, all mammals are dogs?
5
the sanctimonious, like the poor, will always be with us.
while it's true gillis can't claim a fundamental right not to be fired for offensive speech made outside the workplace, he did earn his job fairly over other less gifted performers. he was and is qualified to work on SNL, just as the author seems eminently qualified for a writing gig passing judgement on fellow comedians far more accomplished than her.
33
There is nothing “fairly” done in an industry where connections proceed actual talent. Her point was that his lazy schtick overshadowed actual talent.
She straight up says he can do what he wants and rarely passes judgment. Did we even read the same article?
3
I do worry about hypersensitivity on the left, but this case seems to be more the product of shifting demographics. The mainstream American audience is a lot less white than it used to be, so it makes sense that humor that revolves around the idea that whiteness is normal and everything else is weird is no longer going to make it onto a mainstream platform like SNL.
14
Comedy is about the absurd, and comics highlight cases where our well-meaning ideas have gone awry. Or when our bad ideas have gone too far. Comedians play an important role in helping us see the absurdity of life and society by stepping on norms and expectations. Silencing comedy is as repugnant as silencing the press, or our laws, or our political will. Perhaps comedy is our sixth estate?
I am liberal, progressive (white, male, entitled, etc.) and see these comics as people who say horrible but often funny things as a way to mediate our tendencies toward absolutism. That is, until some moderating (yes, moderating!) voice states the extreme view, we incrementally accept each new logical step towards purity as rational and appropriate.
Our friends and countrymen and countrywomen (but not, perhaps, country people) on the right are now calling out our enthusiasm for progress as excessive. They see what our comedians see -- absurdity in the relentless correction of our woefully ignorant past.
We can tolerate. We can accept. We can moderate. This is what our comedians do, with an intent to enlighten on a way that is not moralistic and superior, but in a way that forces each of us to ask ourselves, "is what I think what I believe?"
Under an authoritarian rule our press, and our legal system, and our political systems are threatened. If you need evidence, please re-read today's front page. If we condemn comedians we indirectly condemn ourselves.
5
Yes, comics and jesters function by pointing out the absurdities and contradictions in society by punching up at authority. This comic did not do that. Instead, he aimed for easy targets below him and punched down. But no one silenced this man. Purely and simply, the market spoke and it rejected him because, in part, he violated the very way that comics should function.
10
Are white folks the last group that it is okay to stereotype and make fun of? I watched Lily Singh debut last night and she did a bit with Rainn Wilson about a white noise machine which spouted noise that white folks supposedly make. If a white comic had done something similar with any racial or ethnic group, he or she would have been pilloried as insensitive at best or racist at worst. Are white people fair game? And I must admit I would have found it less offensive had Lily been white.
44
White people are a traditional source of power, and not even a decade ago the balance of representation on television was superbly skewed white. If one can’t poke fun at oneself (or the power that comes from privilege) what’s the point?
8
Gillis justifies/rationalizes his racist, homophobic and xenophobic slurs as "edgy." This type of comedy is anything but edgy. It's trite, tired and old.
33
Lost me with “punching down.” People need to stop using that phrase. It’s stupid and annoying.
22
I'm a Jew and appreciate all of the Jewish jokes I have heard over the years. Well, most of them.
9
sirrah! Maeve, sirrah!
Cancel culture is a very one-way thing. Homophobia gets a pass when you are Joy Ann Reid. Sexual assault gets a pass when you are Justin Fairfax or Don Lemon. Assault gets a pass when it is Antifa. Misleading the public gets a pass when it's done by the NY Times. Racially charged jokes get a pass if you are a minority. A white, male comedian is meat for the PC, liberal wolves. I know some people believe the country will be better when white men are out of the picture. Fortunately not all Americans are Democrats.
45
There is a "comedy world"? Never heard of it. People tell jokes. I wouldn't pay money to hear them, though occasionally they make me laugh.
There are some hilarious jokes that Churchill and Lincoln supposedly told (but probably did not). Funny, whoever originated them. Find them in books.
1
Seems there is a lot of concern about "cancel culture", a new thing that might be replacing the old thing.
What was the "old thing"? Just that white, privileged men got to decide everything, all the time, and usually behind closed doors (or maybe to your face, with zero fear of reprisal).
Has cancel culture gone too far? Is it going too far now? WILL it go too far?
All good questions, but my answer to each of them is: not nearly as far as the current culture has gone, with it's lynching, murder, sexual assault, and killing of dreams of those not fortunate enough to be born white, and male like them.
Don't cry for me Argentina, you know what I mean?
11
SNL is a comedy show?
I never saw a funny skit there so it's news to me that they fired a comedian.
You want a comedy show? Watch SCTV reruns. Watch Joe Flaherty as Sammy Maudlin, Eugene Levy as Perry Como (still alive tour), and Catherine O'hara as Brooke Shields - you'll die laughing.
3
One day, people with peanut allergies will rise up in our cancel culture...
8
short of being an accountant or perhaps editor of The White Pages -remember those- there seem to be few jobs left that white men can do with impunity.
I have been mocked as German, a default Nazi, a man, as overweight, or not manly enough, an immigrant, because of my language, or my support for Hillary Clinton. but I understand that more often than not the comedian is expressing the conscious or unconscious prejudice of the audience rather then his or her own believes.
2
Most humor appears to have a fairly short shelf life, largely, I suspect, because the comedian's jokes exploit issues and anxieties linked to a particular time period. Even Seinfeld, in my opinion, seems less relevant than it did in the 90s.
Attacks on vulnerable people, however, always seem in style, although the identity of the victims may change over time. But humor which pokes fun at people for what they do rather than for who they are never loses its capacity to amuse and provoke. Mark Twain's brand of satire attracts audiences today as reliably as it did in his lifetime because he targeted the misbehavior of the powerful rather than the imperfections of the poor and the marginalized.
Acid-tongued comedians who, in the age of Trump, get cheap laughs by ridiculing religious minorities or members of the LGBTQ community may enjoy a measure of temporary success, but no one will ever mistake them for Mark Twain, and their popularity will probably expire before they do.
12
"So many would-be comics — women, people of color, other marginalized groups — are silenced from the beginnings of their careers. Despite their talent and work ethic, they leave the industry and take their brilliance elsewhere, or perhaps nowhere. Reaching a level in their career where they could even get canceled remains a dream for most. Comedy, like so many of our cultural institutions, remains dominated by men, usually straight and white men."
Sorry, but you can't just say this and thereby make it true. The biggest comedians in the world right now - Kevin Hart and Dave Chappelle - are people of color. The biggest comedy special of last year - Nanette - was by a lesbian. In fact, a brief look-up of the top 10 highest paid comedians in 2019 shows four people of color, and two woman. And that doesn't even include Chappelle (because he was paid for his specials a few years ago).
I don't doubt that people of color or women sometimes feel intimidated or "silenced" in their comedy careers - but how does that make comedy unique from any other profession? It seems to me that the top echelon of the comedy world is at least reasonably diverse. So please, don't take Gillis, who is a nobody, and hold him up as representative of the best of comedy. He's not at all. And that's the whole point.
38
So because two (male) comics of color and one lesbian happened to be the biggest comedy acts of last year (in your opinion, BTW), that means that decades of intimidation of women and minorities in the comedy world are suddenly over? To quote John Oliver: Cool.
Fact is, for every woman or POC on the comedy circuit there are dozens of cis white boys thinking they’re the next Adam Sandler or John Belushi, spouting racist, regressive nonsense and acting like they’re some modern day Sophocles who the world expects to swallow hemlock just for pointing out some uncomfortable “truth.”
23
Yet he got a job on the biggest comedy staple of the last 40 years! Her point is that a nobody rose in a system that is flawed. Those comedians are big because the demographics are changing and comedy consumers want something better. The industry is the one lagging behind, which was her point. Electing Barack Obama doesn’t negate the presence of systemic problems regarding race, nor would electing Hillary have negated sexism.
2
Maeve Higgins is a star! I first heard her on Startalk radio (my favourite co-host) and have followed her avidly since then. Her writing on various issues is as intelligent as any of the experts on the matter and she manages to be funny too, she deserves way more accolades than she currently has. Plus she is one of those people who you just KNOW have a beautiful heart, we need many more people like her. I can't wait to see what she produces next.
12
Seriously? Now we have rules of comedy? Good thing Lenny Bruce isn’t starting today.
32
No individual, group, or identity should be "protected" from comedy. NONE. The problem is not with comedians but with a percentage of the population which has become so humorless and fragile that they can not even see that they are the joke.
50
This column comes across as almost a parody of bland millennial virture signaling. Referencing "marginalized communities"? Check. "People of Color"? Check. Running down straight white men? Check.
The great irony, of course, is that people of color have thrived in comedy for generations: Richard Pryor, Bill Cosby (yes, I am including him), Dave Chappelle, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, Redd Foxx, Chris Tucker, Kevin Hart, et. al.
But yes, let's outright lie that comedy has kept people of color back to make a disingenuous point about how we should now be geo-fencing comedy so as to not "hurt" anyone.
Very few people - except those that are so caught up in their sense of self-satisfied virtue that they can't see beyond their own limited horizon-line - believe we are heading in the right direction as a culture.
Comedy - like life - is not meant to be "safe." The moment you bottle it, put a warning label on it, or hide it away, is the moment you destroy human creativity in all its messy - and yes, often ugly - glory.
It's all too telling that this writer is "laughing" at those who dared to contravene the resurgent thought-police by making some lame, poorly-worded, racist jokes. Most Americans, by contrast, are starting to realize that the vicious, censorious behavior of the "regressive left" is no laughing manner.
111
@Ziko This should be a NYT Pick. Agree with it or not, it's staked out a well-articulated position.
11
@Ziko Ironically, Richard Pryor, Bill Cosby, Dave Chappelle, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, Redd Foxx, Chris Tucker, Kevin Hart, et. al., have faced or will face the equivalent pillory of the "culture cancel" movement in their own times.
6
@Ziko. Beautifully stated!
2
Hear hear! More power to you for eloquence and slapping the nonsense out of the ever growing culture of entitlement and inability to introspect.
4
Canceling culture one doesn't like is a slippery slope -- it depends on the mores of the moment. Lenny Bruce -- for my tastes the greatest -- was hounded and repeatedly arrested for hurting people's feelings. (It was called "offending.") The "spaces" he performed in were so "unsafe," walk-outs were common. ("There goes a deuce in the balcony.") When Lenny fatally overdosed, the cops who were photographed investigating the scene were shown smiling. So keep laughing Maeve -- every time you contribute to destroying a career because you're offended, you're affecting lives as sure as this guy Gillis did with his routines. And when the culture changes and people find you so offensive that you get canceled, I'll be interested to see if you're still laughing.
12
isn't it easy and so PC to dance on some one's
grave?especially if it is a white male! comedy
is about crossing boundaries of gender and
sexual orientation and even religion. Chris
Rock does it all the time and I don't hear
any criticism of his work. the reason could
not be because he is a black comedian,
could it?God forbid....I have one rule when
it comes to comedians:if I don't like their
routines,I turn the channel. I don't demand
that they be fired from their gigues.
24
The point isn’t “freedom of speech” vs. “freedom from consequences”. The point is, if you don’t like something, even if you think it’s actively bad to consume it, don’t consume it or support it. But don’t go ruining everyone’s fun who does enjoy it, just mind your own business.
It’s like the PMRC going after heavy metal in the 80s, or critics of gangsta rap in the 90’s. If you don’t like it or find it offensive, don’t listen to it.
13
Just some quick random thoughts on “comedy” :
Dick Gregory
Lenny Bruce
George Carlin
Richard Pryor
No comic, today, can perform their level of satire and insight. They changed the course.
Btw: SNL is Not, nor (except for few opening skits over the years) ever been funny. Ask Jane Curtain.
6
I had hoped SNL would retain him, and create skits that would put his comedy persona in the boxing ring with other comedians and guests performing on the show. In this way, the concerns raised by Maeve Higgins would be played out on the live stage. An opportunity has been lost. Shane Gillis tripped hard, deliberately or not, in public, but the SNL firing "saves his face," so the speak. I would say, let him fall time and time again, on SNL, and see how he and other cast members and the audience tackle distressing and stressful representations of life through the medium of comedy. This might sharpen our minds and open our ability to engage with each other as we go into the 2020 elections and make decisions about the performers running for public office.
1
@NDW No one tunes into SNL to watch one of its cast members be educated, or tested out, or try and fail. It's very late on Saturday night and people just want to relax and laugh. Gillis in one guy, one comic in a sea of comics just as or more talented and who want to get on SNL. He seems over it (he was "always a Mad TV guy anyway") and everyone should be too.
4
I want comedy to remain an exasperated exclamation point on all the ironies of life, the Universe, and everything. Comedy was meant to satirize the real world, not mirror it. The real world is messy. So is good stand-up comedy. Good art should be provocative, always. I personally think stand up died with Bill Hicks and yet I guffaw at Sarah Silverman.
I am a straight white dude though. I can see the point you're making about the white dude's skewed perspective. I don't necessarily see it as "punching down" though. They're simply working the room. If the room laughs at the racist slurs, well then it's a win for the comic and the audience. If they don't, either the comic has something else up their sleeve for just such a situation, or they crash and burn. Or, as was the case with Mr. Hicks, they simply turn on the audience who had no business being in a dark, smokey night club to begin with. Lighten up, folks.
4
My child has a life-threatening peanut allergy, so I'm particularly sensitive to the jokes made about that subject, such as, "I mean...if a peanut can kill you... maybe that's just natural selection." (ha ha ha)
When a comedian starts joking about that subject, I turn it off. Doesn't matter who. And I'm sure that Roy Wood Jr.'s joke about peanut allergies wouldn't meet my standard for sensitive treatment of the subject, since joking about something that could kill my kid is NOT FUNNY.
But, you know what? Enjoy it, Maeve. Unless you have it in your life, you couldn't be expected to understand why I feel the way I feel. Kids with food allergies far outnumber transgender people, but whatever. I'll refrain from calling for you to be "cancelled."
13
@Patrick the good news is that the pharmaceutical company seems to have solved the issue of fatal peanut allergies. When the FDA approves the new immunotherapy, most children with fatal allergies will end up with an allergy that does not kill. You can’t however change your race or orientation
1
@Stefan
Wrong. This is something I know a lot about; the peanut allergy pill is vastly overpriced, needs to be taken forever, and doesn't cure the allergy or prevent anaphylaxis.
It's also worth noting that people with serious food allergies are a protected by the ADA, so making fun of someone with a food allergy is literally mocking a disabled person. Do you think that's funny?
Shane Gillis should not have lost his job. Podcasts are not scripted material, but instead free flowing. Comics strive to be funny in the moment. (so does SNL, much of its stuff is very unfunny, ) It was a swing and a miss for him going to racial material that he shouldn't have gone for. It doesn't mean he is racist, although for all I know he might be. An uneducated racist hacky attempt for a laugh? Sure. But for him to lose his job on this mistake out of his whole body of work is wrong. Instead let it be a teachable moment for Gillis.
3
@toronto joe He lost his job in comedy for not being funny. I hope he learned his lesson.
8
Somebody alert the comedy police! The only comedy we accept is the ones we approve of. Let's make the most transgressive form of art into a captive of political correctness. I don't care if my comedy hurts your feelings, your feelings are not important. Despite what you learned in your years as a participation trophy winner. I am so tired of these crybabies. I have lived for 67 years on this planet. I have been subjected to sexual harassment, bad jokes, frat parties, and other forms of male aggression.
While men need to conform their behavior to contemporary, women also need to lighten up. If we are going to continually litigate the past, we will never achieve a just society.
Everybody needs to get over themselves, and to stop demanding reparations, or some form of apology. Apologies are meaningless and reparations are useless.
13
Like the them from that old TV show advised, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
3
I know how she feels. I took the courageous stand of defending the Hockey Puck Community when Don Rickles was alive. Nobody cared. They just wanted to laugh.
9
Spot on! This needs to be sent to all those misguided comedians whingeing about free speech. It seems that they cannot understand how to be funny without making others feel less than human. What an untalented lot.
8
What would really be funny if somehow - magic! - all of everyone's past mistakes, blunders, words said in anger/stupidity/etc., and more, was suddenly known to everyone else.
Guess we'd all be out of a job.
More likely, we'd just give a collective nod and, one hopes, try to do better, be a bit more tolerant, and perhaps understand that we're all human, which means we're all pretty stupid some (often) of the time.
3
Old Jackie Mason joke: "I've got a friend who is a Polish Jew. He's a janitor, but he owns the building." To understand the joke, you have to remember that Poles were supposed to be stupid and Jews were supposed to be money-grubbing capitalists. Nobody can say where racial stereotypes cross the threshold from humorous to cruel. But somebody has to judge. This joke was said on the Ed Sullivan show.
6
I'm glad your laughing, could it be because your not a white male? As its only White males who do not adhere to the woke crowd who are being cancelled, The male Comics of Color (I can't believe I typed that but I want this to appear so there it is) Who stray from the Woke Plantation don't get cancelled but they do get their Minority privilege card suspended for a bit, ( Kevin Hart, Dave Chapelle etc), Maeve Higgins, the Paper your writing this in as we speak has 2 editors who have past words and deeds that are comparable to whatever Shane Gillis said, but since their targets were White Men, Jews & straight ppl they got to keep their Jobs, Being a comic is about taking chances it's about being bold you Maeve are neither, The best comedy I've seen since the Office(U.K) and Curb was Fleabag and Pheobe was and is brilliant, The audience gets to decide to laugh or not, but you don't get to decide if I hear it, I'm really afraid that the goal of this woke intersectionality culture is simply the total destruction of the White male prototype in this country, And while many on this thread might welcome it it will have devastating consequences down the road, because if this continues this and not climate change or income equality will be the root cause of the next wave of terror from disaffected nihilistic young men
5
So why was the picture associated with this amazing piece of Shane Gillis and not one of the deserving comics mentioned in the article?
The whining about women and "people of color" being excluded is risible. And if one is bothered by vicious bullying and racial stereotypes, few black comedians would be employed, and emasculating jokes by female so-called comedians would create a lot of comedy clubs having to play old videos of real comedians.
"Cancel culture" is a good phrase for the current McCarthyist obsession with moral purity. Most modern comedians are more nasty than funny, so yes, he should not have been fired.
71
Maeve. I love how you feel comfortable talking negatively about men. Since we are ALL the same. It’s such a double standard and you don’t even see it exists.
41
@bk2, I’m pretty sure she was talking about the power of men in comedy. That’s just true. I don’t think she said all men or all male comedians are the same.
I think you can read the author more generously and less defensively than you did. Your response dodges her broader point and makes this article all about you and your hurt feelings. And as a white guy, I hate to say that “making everything about yourself” is pretty much the signature move of white dudes.
34
@Bk2 - She's not talking about ALL men. Re-read the article.
16
@Nels Watt. Nels. You’ve bought in hook, line and sinker. The only people allowed to be bashed as a group are white men. We don’t generalize other groups, so keep rolling with the self hate, it’s just become white noise to most of us.
9
So Chappelle is still right. Got it. Cancel culture is alive and well in comedy.
Funny we are told people are 'silenced' in Comedy when, for example, Def Jam comedy club is 95% black ( minus Gary Owens). And that is insanely great comedy that mocks white people a lot - which is OK by this author since it isn't punching down.
The oppression olympics are alive in Comedy. Gallis forgot in woke world, he has the bronze as a white male.
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@Scott I know that five minutes into Chappelle's latest set, this victim of childhood sexual abuse was livid and furious.
I'm ready to cancel Netflix.
This is me punching with my wallet.
12
@Scott yep similar statements generate no consequences not just from black comedians but from black politicians and civil rights leaders ironically enough.
2
@Edward Allen I didn’t like that bit about childhood sexual abuse either. But it was a bit. It was one bad song on a hit album. My goodness do you know what comedy is? It’s an art form. It sometimes hits and sometimes misses. It sometimes hurts or offends. But you don’t have to take your ball and go home because of a bit.
1
Call me crazy but isn’t the whole point of stand up comedians to say stuff that would get us fired at work? That’s the shock value that’s the entertainment. If we start reading transcripts out of context then every comedienne might as well be David Duke. If he said something offensive in an arena where people are going to hear someone say something offensive why are we acting like their words are their dogma and they are preaching it as truth in the real world? If we start making comedians, traditionally and historically the truth tellers of society, then we are one step closer to an orewellian dystopia where everyone is afraid to express themselves in any medium.
10
Isn’t the act of mocking an entire racial or religious group an attempt to cancel them? To make them feel shame for they way they look and speak so that some (usually white, but not always) guy can score some cheap laughs?
For every person laughing, because they have the privilege to be “in” on the joke, there are many more who feel they need to change or hide themselves so that they aren’t publicly humiliated simply for being themselves.
4
Sure, SNL doesn't have to hire Shane Gillis. But they are making a big mistake.
Contrary to Ms. Higgins assertion, insult comedy is not the sole domain of men anymore. Lisa Lamponelli, Nikki Glazer, Sarah Silverman and Chelsea Handler come to mind, among others. They are all very funny women. And, yes, they say offensive things sometimes, including racial and anti-gay jokes. (Try watching them on some of those Comedy Central Roasts.) Should they also be treated like Gillis was by SNL? Or not, because they are women and he is a white man?
I guess SNL now has to provide a "safe space" for those who might find offense in comedy. I can only imagine Lorne Michaels patrolling the SNL writers' room, on the lookout for "comedy triggers" in their work that might offend the sensitive.
7
While it may be true that most comedians are straight white men, it’s also true that most comedians aren’t successful. I think if you would select from the most successful comedians, I doubt straight white men would be as dominant. Are most straight white male comedians wealthy, well connected people. No. They’re mostly at the bottom too.
6
I prefer clean comedy, and don't personally like comedy that denigrates races. Jim Gaffigan is my current favorite.
That said, our PC culture is a recruiting tool for Trump. I had a discussion with a philosophy student about why the movie Sixteen Candles shouldn't be watched because of its caricature of an asian man (Long Duck Dong). Sure, she's was right....it was a stereotype. But so was Eddie Griffin's caricature of a white guy in Undercover Brother. Both were hilarious. Or take the Wayan's brothers portrayal of white girls in White Chicks. Was it stereotyping? Yes. Was it funny. Yes.
8
Yes indeed. Our discomfort with offensive content is indeed a lever for Trumpism. In the 1980s the conservative right was the force of prudishness. Somehow today's left has embraced this mantle.
4
@Stephen The jokes were horrible. AND - I think we need to make room for redemption. I can't imagine that after watching Christians get slaughtered in the colosseum the line for the "Learn about Christianity!" booth was very long.
Thank you for writing this thoughtful piece. The Shane Gillis story isn't about cancel culture, or first amendment rights, or whether white men are targeted unfairly for cultural punishment. It's about one guy who got caught with tapes of his stupid, unfunny, and bigoted conversation with his even more stupid, unfunny and bigoted buddy. Comedy about cultural differences, even if it relies on stereotypes, can be hilarious. Angry comedy can be funny too. Nothing that Gillis said on those tapes was funny. Now that the tapes were circulated, he couldn't survive on SNL since no one who's Asian, gay, struggling with depression (yes, he made fun of that too), or a thinking person, could watch him and laugh.
5
Yes, it's about the one guy who got caught. As a guy, not caught yet, I would ask you to look to the guys you know and be sure they aren't also a guy like that.
I look at Brett Kavanaugh and see a man I saw over, and over, and over during my college years in the same era. At the time, as now, I see him and his many cohorts as despicable.
If I am honest, these impulses are endogenous in our makeup as humans, makes humans especially but not exclusively.
I worry that in an effort to purify the world, we may perhaps be failing to understand our sinful and venal humanity. Are we not able to hear and see our failings without the need to expunge them?
1
Punch up, punch down, punch every which way. If comedians are not allowed to punch in any direction we have created a class of untouchables, which is unhealthy for any society. I side with Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, Dave Chapelle, Bill Burr, South Park and Family Guy. No one, NO ONE is immune from being made fun of. Lastly, BE ABLE TO LAUGH AT YOURSELF.
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While sometimes the only way to poke life in the eye when dealt a rough hand is to laugh at it, if in 2019 as a comic your material is just plain foolishness, as we say here in the South - “you is just plain lazy”
1
Man, woman, black, white, straight, gay - just don't be a Republican - you will never get work in the entertainment field.
3
Ah, freedom of speech. That wonderful right that's so basic, yet somehow licenses everyone to be as much of a jerk as they please with no repercussion.
I think Randall Munroe of xkcd put it best (loosely paraphrased): people condemning you doesn't mean your freedom of speech has been violated. It means they think you're a jerk, and they're showing you the door.
3
First they came for Dave Chapelle.....
6
Thank you! No one has the right to use racist slurs - not even in the imagined sanctity of your stand-up. There was zero sarcasm or "hidden social justice" meaning in his "schtick". It was purely gratuitous, an obnoxious white boy "comedian" hiding in his privileged cocoon of "freedom of speech" baloney. Ugh. Shudder. Go away.
3
I think the American left is well on the way to create an Orwellin thought police
14
Did you watch the recent Dave Chappelle Netflix special ..
very funny very anti everything .... from making fun of the LGBTQ community to whites, blacks and Latinos .and Asian Americans ... oh and against the Michael Jackson documentary...
3
I thought the same thing as the author about the slavery play. Talk about low hanging fruit. Slavery was terrible? This is ground breaking? Where do you live? NYC?
1
I hope the author knows the stand up comedians were often Jewish men, not white men.
4
More sanctimonious, cancel culture. Let me know when a comic of color get cancelled for mocking rural white Trump voters.
19
If you were funnier I might have taken your word for it
2
@Andrew Rayment I don't understand why people are attacking the author. I don't think she was trying to be funny with this piece - it is a reflective one.
2
@K Sorry, I listened to hear on YouTube once I saw the article and I'm with Andrew Rayment. Maeve Higgins is too nice to be funny. She's bland. Her entire argument is nothing more than she doesn't like "edgy"-comedy and she's politically left-wing. If she were funnier I'd take her seriously.
Another fragile male ego bruised "by proxy". How dare a woman talk like that about my "bro".
Comedy in the "Woke" age; I can barely contain my excitement. Imagine all of the gender-neutral, non-culturally appropriated material just waiting to be explored. It'll be just like Robin Williams' replacement in "Good Morning Vietnam!" Let the fun begin.
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Privileged/problematic are two words that have been weaponized these days. Can these discussions get deeper than "I felt oppressed so I am okay with canceling other people?" What happened to Liberal pluralism?
6
The roll of comics is not to ridicule the weak in society. We listen to what comics say when they make sarcastic remarks about the strong such as politicians and businesspeople with humorous and clever expressions.
1
I don't see it the same way, but I appreciate your perspective. I first learned of Shane Gillis a few months ago and immediately thought he was among the funniest of the up and coming comics. His set at JFL was genuinely pee-your-pants funny in a way that was still sharp and forward thinking. It's obvious why SNL wanted him. He figured out how to poke fun at Trump country without the lame, tired, self-righteous "cheato-man" jokes that I think we've all heard enough of. His style is new. And if you've seen his act, you know that 90% of the time, he is the butt of his own jokes.
The main point I take issue with is the idea of this being a "free-speech" crusade. It's not. We just want to laugh. When I put on SNL, I want to laugh. I want to see funny people tell jokes. I don't like the idea of a twitter mob telling a risk analyst at NBC telling the producers of a show what's funny.
14
@QQQQQQQ If you're Asian, gay, or in any other group he brutally dehumanized on that podcast, you wouldn't and couldn't watch him on SNL and laugh, no matter how good the skit.
@Mary Mamma
Then, people would tune out and Gillis would have eventually been cut out.
The way this was done was anti-freedom of speech, anti-American, and extremely disappointing.
1
Maeve Higgins lives in an alternate reality where comedy today is dominated by straight white males who crassly "punch down" with jokes that target "marginalized" groups. That hasn't been the case for many, many years, as evidenced by anyone who's watched SNL or visited a comedy club in the past decade or so. But Ms. Higgins nevertheless constructs this alternate reality in a supreme act of virtue signaling so she may condemn someone who apparently doesn't conform his act with the current social norms. How brave.
35
Once again, the PC police are out for scalps. Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, Robin Williams and George Carlin are laughing in their graves at this absurdity, but likely using language our thought police would find offensive and unacceptable. How humorless we have become as a society.
13
Miss Higgins treads politely and lightly. George Carlin or Richard Pryor would not be hired, by NBC in current race-sensitive environment, whether they were well known or not. If done well, color has always had a place in comedy.
4
Funny is what makes people laugh. period.
Gifted comedians can find gold in old things, new things, the politically correct, or the politically incorrect. Whining about the "subject matter" of jokes is really beside the point.
Also, the implication that "bias" stops women and minorities from succeeding in comedy, which surely has the lowest barrier to entry of almost any profession, is a little bit absurd as well.
7
A wonderful piece, thank you!
Freedom of speech has never meant freedom from the consequences of your speech.
9
@Roy
Sure. Ask Lenny Bruce about them consequences.
I hope Maeve's comedy is better than the opinion piece I just read. She should have mentioned that he got the job based on his merits and was only fired after the fact because of concerns about potential backlash.
8
@Eduardo He got the job because Lorne Michaels was impressed by his audition. Then the horrible tapes came out that showed who he truly is. Too bad he decided to record his racist ramblings for all to hear, that would make it hard for him to ever work on TV with a much broader audience that includes Asians, LGBTQ's, women, thinking people, etc.
1
@Mama Mary "who he truly is". You do realize comedians tell jokes, and often act as personas? They are not espousing ideologies, they are entertaining.
3
It is incorrect to equate the context of Shane Gillis' comments with misunderstood "comedy" just because he was historically a comic. He didn't seem to be trying to be funny at the time. Most participants in this debate have not actually heard the recordings. His comments were not some humorous albeit coarse comedic bit that some sensitive-type folks couldn't handle - it wasn't a comedic bit at all. Shane Gillis sounded nothing like Eddie Murphy or Bob Saget delivering blue punchlines to a shocked audience. He sounded like he was bored on a boring podcast. It wasn't the fact that he he used racial slurs that was offensive. He wasn't trying to be funny, he was trying to make his boring ideas sound normal. He was just telling a racist story and the point of the story was not to get a laugh - it was that having racist attitudes is ok.
12
I used to watch SNL - when it was funny. Since Trump got elected it has turned into a pathetic pity party. I miss Akroyd, Murphy, Curtin and everyone who made that show a classic.
Here’s a crazy idea. When you don’t like something on TV, change the channel. Don’t impose your Puritan views on the rest of us.
2
The author imagines lots of women and minorities locked out of comedy because of white male privilege. I think it might actually be funny people privilege.
7
The author goes to great lengths to talk about how most comedians are white. Most are straight. Most are male. This set up gives her license to bash all she wants. It’s so transparent. She can’t make her point without it?
2
There is no comedic value in simply shocking people, but if you shock them to drive home the point of, say, your social commentary, for example, that’s something else all together.
1
Don Rickles would be fired quickly today.
2
Yet another issue reduced to the "problem" of straight white males. Obviously no one had a VCR to record the countless black comics who mercilessly and openly mocked Koreans and Asians in general in the exact same way during the 1990s, an era of toxic black-Asian relations (that came to a head during the LA riots and several high-profile killings of black customers by Asian shopkeepers.) Decades later, the boldness of Kevin Hart's brutally homophobic tweets clearly illustrate a double standard - a lack of media interest in non-white comedians crossing lines of hatred.
And should we weigh in on gay, female Rosie O'Donnell's notorious "ching chong" routine on "The View"? Was she fired? Of course not. She's not a straight white male (just as we got to laugh off Ellen De Generes' ride of Usain Bolt as nothing to do with hidden prejudice.)
The only actual "privilege" today is the freedom to endlessly single out the only race, gender and sexual orientation demographic that is safe to smear: straight white males. The idea that they are the sole problem in the hate stakes.
Even if the truth shows they are far from alone in the crime, they do the time. Over and over and over. But no, NYT, let's keep that indignant "people of color" vs "white males" or "gender diverse" vs "white males" narrative, and maybe one-up the Washington Post with a new motto: "Democracy Dies in Whiteness."
18
@David Entertainers who aren't white males have suffered the same fate. Kathy Griffin is the prime example, and it was driven by the right who were outraged by a mock photo of her holding Trump's decapitated head. White men can avoid the cancel culture easily. Stop making racist or misogynistic comments. Newsflash - the majority of people will not accept it anymore.
2
@Mama MaryUm, Um, you mean Kathy Griffin who held up a pretty gruesomely realistic ("mock"?) severed head of the President of the United States, done in the same time frame as gruesome ISIS beheadings showing identical imagery?
And her being fired was "driven by the right"? What a genuinely disturbing point of view.
And we wonder how this so-called "cancel culture" got going. What a day it will be when social media's power wanes along with that of the deranged zealots who drive its one-sided narratives.
I think there is a difference between thought provoking comedy that may in some ways group people together in order to show minor truth or trait or characteristic in some sub-group of people and what this guy did.
This guy was just being boreish and juvenile. There was nothing thought provoking or deep in what he was doing. It was pure shock humor. Low grade and really offensive for offensives sake. Being shocking can be funny when u add some other element and the conclusion or logic leads to something surprising, but just saying racial epithets for Chinese people or whoever really doesn’t deserve to be called comedy nor deserve to be defended.
Louis ck deserves to be defended. He was pushing boundaries and at least you could see more sophisticated logic in what he was doing. This guy was just saying offensive things without any logic and doesn’t deserve to be used as a proxy for a politically correct defense, because it was pure bone-headwxness and what you would expect to be funny from some edgy 3rd grader.
He should be roundly condemned in my view
1
It's hard for me to square the racist language a comic uses in a routine with all the racists we tuned in to see on so many sitcoms. Archie Bunker was a racist. George Jefferson calling Tom and Louise Zebras was racist. Fred Sanford was racist to Julio his Puerto Rican neighbor. However hurtful the language was, we all laughed at these ignorant people. I truly believe Shane Gillis is a good person who would've fit perfectly into many of SNL's questionably racist skits - See Ching Chang In Love!
@A. Gorgolis Society has evolved since Archie Bunker and George Jefferson. We're no longer accepting racism, misogyny, sexual harassment, "Ching Chang," etc. as the norm anymore. What was tolerated 30, 20, or even 10 years ago will no longer be tolerated. Gillis and everyone else defending him need to get with the times.
Btw, Archie and George were caricatures and their characters used for social commentary. Gillis, on those tapes, was just being himself.
"When just one voice is heard, that voice quickly becomes boring."
Wait a second...so all straight white guys have the identical voice? Wow. Talk about stereotyping!
4
What’s a “mic”? Short for Mickey Mouse?
2
I’m just waiting for a married lesbian comic to utter the immortal words : “Take my wife...please.”
1
Were you a poplar comic? Probably not from your apparent inability to appreciate a good satiric set. I do not agree nor endorse Gills racial comments, but your first paragraph had me completely unconvinced that you can relate to any, let alone great, comedians in 2019. I'm a cis, straight, blonde woman...and I love a good blonde/sexist joke! If anyone can push the boundaries, its people who make their entire livings off of doing so. Get off your high horse...
3
I like this piece a lot. There's a connection to the Brett Kavanaugh here, and it has to do with the kind of cruel, excluding laughter that certain kinds of white guys think they can indulge in over and over. There's a great piece in THE ATLANTIC that addresses this by Megan Garber, and it's also part of what Corey Lewandowski did in Congress today. There's nothing "subversive" or "edgy" about any of it. It's another form of aggression meant to keep people in their place.
18
Shane Gillis makes fun of everyone including himself and his white background. He is funny. The things he said on the podcast were dumb and offensive. He apologized. Like music or movies, everyone has their preferences in comedian types. SNL hasn’t been funny in years...they could’ve used him...
129
@CHoued
It hasn't been funny, but has it been profitable?
Yes, it has.
13
@CHoued He technically apologized, but the tone of it seemed quite unapologetic and quite passive aggressive. Reminiscent of the of the kid scolded in class and forced to say sorry to another student but not really meaning it.
106
@CHoued
Why do so many people think it's "funny" to belittle, denigrate, and attempt to silence anyone who doesn't look like "one of us"?
84
When it’s funny, we laugh. In fact, we have no choice. I haven’t seen that kind of comedy since Charley Chaplin’s Gold Rush. Today’s comedy is merely amusing unless it’s abusive, which it too often is.
2
This is a beautifully written piece. Isn’t it nice to read words that praise the wonderful possibilities of our comedic language, that there are people who can be funny without being rude, or vulgar, or sexist, or racist, or homophobic?
There are comedians whining about the “cancel culture,” which is a bogus complaint. It’s not the “cancel culture,” it’s the grow up culture. For too long, the crude, barnyard animals of the comedy world have ruled the roost. The “bro” culture is boring. It’s also no longer funny. For some people, it never was funny.
Shane Gillis, who isn’t funny or groundbreaking in any sense of either word, can still try his pathetic attempts at humor. He just can’t do it live on national television.
And always remember, SNL is aired live. And Gillis can’t be trusted to not go where he shouldn’t, and where no one who watches SNL wants him to go.
449
@Magnus Johansson Gillis was apparently sufficiently funny and unboring to be hired by SNL. He wasn't fired because he isn't funny. He was fired because he said the wrong things--as you put it, he "can't be trusted" to obey the rules set by the people who get to decide what we see and hear today.
18
@Tom
And who are the people who get to decide?
The people who watch SNL.
Unless of course you're suggesting that NBC has a poor grasp of how to secure positive press, increased viewership, and how to maximize advertising revenue (its ultimate goal).
Don't worry. They get it. It's their job.
The market algorithms have spoken.
NBC has listened. End of story.
Bring out the next juggler or pie-eating-champion or whomever the masses wildly enjoy nowadays.
15
@Tom
As with all stand-up comedians, Mr. Gillis has the potential to be funny, but as stated, being racist, sexist, and homophobic is not funny. And he knew it, which is why he withheld that side of his portfolio from SNL. The podcast videos I saw were embarrassing, lazy, and crude. He didn’t show those to SNL for good reason.
54
I think it's possible to make a joke about just about anything, however, that doesn't mean that anyone can tell any joke or that any joke is funny or acceptable. I'm a 68 year old gay man who has been living with HIV for over 30 years so I know a few things about being on the receiving end of those jokes. I know a few things about the very real damage those jokes do. I know how demeaning those jokes can be. I know the difference between someone laughing with me and someone laughing at me. The days are over when you can verbally punch people in the face and expect them to just accept it as though they deserve it. If you want to dish it out you better be prepared for the blowback. Gillis dished it out and now he's getting the blowback. I'll save my sympathies for someone who deserves them.
689
@Emmet G
This is sarcasm, isn’t it? It seems pretty funny if it is, but I have a suspicion it just might not be.
7
@Emmet G You apparently feel that your own preferences and predilections take precedence over those of a fellow commenter, who has written eloquently about the brickbats he has had to endure. You might want to think twice before expressing yourself without a scintilla of empathy or compassion for others.
30
@jim Just because you don't like a joke, it doesn't mean that others also don't like it. There is no universal "funny." You can always walk out of a show or turn off the TV is something offends you.
4
Comedy should be funny. So much of what passes for comedy is not. It just goes for the nervous laughter that is prompted by four letter words, racism, misogyny, Holocaust references, personal insults, and the like. It is possible to be genuinely funny and shocking at the same time. George Carlin, Lenny Bruce and others taught us that. But you have to be very, very clever to make it something more than cruelty. And most who go for this brand of faux humor just are not very clever.
394
@Victor James
If Carlin did his routine today, he would not last ten minutes before the tsunami of liberal criticism would cancel his act on any current media platform.
9
@SteveRR Not buying it, it wasn't the liberals who didn't like Carlin, or tried to silence him, it was the conservatives.
34
@SteveRR Carlin went on Larry King and spoke about how he thought Andrew Dice Clay fans were angry white guys who were threatened that their dominance over women, gays, and immigrants was ending, and so they gathered together to celebrate their anger (please note: he wasn't praising this).
If you think Carlin would be impressed by Gillis and his use of slurs, you're wrong.
47
Comedians can usually tackle risqué or controversial topics in their stand-up because we understand that what they’re talking about is either exaggerated or made-up. We may think a joke in a stand-up routine is distasteful or not funny but ultimately, we don’t personally hold those jokes against the comedian because we think it’s just a “shtick.”
What happened with Gillis is different. The podcast in question wasn't part of a carefully written stand up material--it was essentially Gillis and another guy just spewing racist comments and observations feeling smug about their perceived superiority over Chinese people. It wasn't a comedy sketch. And this wasn't some old video from his ignorant youth buried in dusty archives. This was from last year.
Gillis spouting off and egging on racist and mean-spirited nonsense in the podcast comes off as a tete-a-tete between two unapologetic racists that happened to have been also recorded. In this instance, people held what Gillis said against him because all signs point to him actually believing what he’s saying—that his racism is genuine and not just a joke. That’s why people were outraged. Gillis then went in defensive mode (as most racists are wont to do) and issued a non-apology along the lines of “it’s your problem if you’re offended” and mischaracterized his racist comments and behavior as simply “pushing boundaries” instead of showing contrition. That’s why he was fired by SNL.
592
@EM
Exactly !
25
@EM thank you...I was reading these comments and hoping someone would say just this.
15
This column is evidence of the real problem, which the author doesn't discuss (and likely doesn't understand).
The real problem is the growing gap between Americans. For some of us, "punching down" is out of line. For others, "if people laugh at it, it's funny". It's really that simple: whatever consensus existed around what is funny and what isn't has evaporated, and so events like this will continue to occur.
Witness Dave Chappelle's latest special. It has a 99% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes, but 31% critic score. Coastal elites who write reviews think one way and ordinary Americans think another way. Who is right? Neither of them is right; comedy is subjective.
But I suppose I side with the "free speech" crowd. If you are offended by something, don't watch it. Put please don't deny other people the opportunity to watch it. If something is unanimously not funny, it will die without your angry tweets.
15
@ted
Not that I want to see anyone fired but if critics aren't in touch with their readers how did they get their jobs? Most of the successful comedians do better than 31%.
Not all of them get paid: some of them just publish reviews on this or that website.
As far as those who do get paid: it remains to be seen whether they will keep their jobs. Journalism as a business model is far from stable. It's being disrupted, and it's not clear what (or who) is going to be left standing.
1
@JoeG Chapelle It would have been hard for them to praise Sticks and Stones given the fact that he spent the whole special excoriating them (cancel culture critics).
1
Looking at the bigger picture....
Cancel culture can be used as a ruse to take down those who are talented and hard working, under the guise of a high minded principle. Something objectionable can be found about every artist throughout history.
Now, if anyone feels slighted, they feel entitled to snuff out a performer’s career. An accusation is all that’s necessary.
Progressive leaning folks are just as susceptible to hysteria, purity tests, and witch hunts as any other group. In some cases, it’s a way to remove competition.
Not every complainant’s lack of success is due to systemic bias.
105
@joel dibkin If artists are really talented, their work will find its audience.
22
@joel dibkin
It was not just a mere accusation. He actually did it. The wonder is that SNL was so sloppy in their vetting. Two clubs in Philadelphia have already refuse to work with him before this, so there is definitely some history to his behavior.
73
@joel dibkin Who are all these talented, hardworking truth tellers and artists who’ve been snuffed out by the cancel culture?
49
We can find humor in our differences. It is the basis of a lot of comedy. However, Gillis is not wry or clever. Just coarse, clumsy, boorish, and lacking craft.
219
@Kim
Honest question. Have you ever seen his act, outside of a short clip going around on twitter?
7
@Kim
Apparently, Lorne Michaels - hardly coarse, clumsy, or boorish - thought he was plenty funny.
2
@Chris Lorne has jumped the shark years ago. When was the last time all of the SNL cast was legitimately funny?
SNL has a few rare gems here and there with a lot of *meh* surrounding them.
I've seen Gillis's act in person. He's no Bill Hicks or Carlin. It's brohs before heuxs, frat boy giggling humor. It belongs on Twitch, a podcast, or open mike night. I got free tickets, and no way in hell would I have paid cash to see him.
Pale white guys snickering about "minorities" are a dime a dozen at open mic night. Why Gillis? Who's nephew is he that Lorne owes a favor to? Gillis is lame.
Lorne is crazy like a fox. This is the most press SNL has gotten in months. So a win in his book.
12
Brilliant Maeve, just brilliant. Thank you for your perspective. Now I'll be looking for your work!
8
Humor changes with time. That's why old people say things that were hilarious when they were 40 but which now are offensive. Jokes do not age well. It has ever been so.
Most of us will get old and complacent and find that what we thought was funny no longer is. It happens to everyone who is fortunate enough to get old, and some people age faster than others.
8
Bravo- thank you. This is a super concise and relatable way to explain the phenomenon to those who still bristle at the idea of being told "no". If you really believe you're clever and talented, then a few constraints should be seen as a welcome vertical challenge, a way to push yourself towards fresher material and more insight.
13
Isn't the court Jester supposed to say the things that other people can't. Sometimes those things may be true and need to be said, other times they are offensive and pointless. The audience can't always tell the difference. Comedy should maybe be the only place you can say the outright offensive and not be fired (or sent to the tower for beheading).
7
@matt weems Comedy wins or loses in the marketplace. You can make jokes about whatever you want - people don't have to like it. If they don't like it, you won't get much work. There's really nothing edgy about making racist jokes. The audience has moved on. You get fired because people don't like that stuff as much anymore.
1
SNL like any business, gets to decide who they employ. Viewers then get to watch other shows if this action offends them. Somehow I don't think SNL's rates are going to tank.
12
Comedy? Punching down? Punching up isn't funny either Real comedy assumes everyone is equal ,rich and poor laugh the same if the joke is good. Some may 'feel' a joke strikes close to home at times..big deal.
It rather patronizing to promulgate and accept the concept of 'punching down' when the bigger concept is that we're all equals. The two concepts can't coexist.
We have slipped down a slippery slope too far since it became taboo to joke of one particular mid eastern prophet but not the other. In a free society no should be spared from a good joke...and that does not include malicious stuff which is never funny.
6
@Lane I believe you are misrepresenting the concept of punching down. While we all may be "equal" under the law and according to our ideals, inequality exists. People have different social status, different incomes, different vulnerabilities, different opportunities and the like. Sometimes that difference comes from a history of violence and exclusion, and along with this a history of consistent ridicule. So if we are equal in concept, it does not mean we are equal in society. So some jokes rub an open wound, mimic a standing prejudice, and come off as violent. Others, well they are just funny. And if a comedian can't be funny without being stereotypical, perhaps some better writing is in order.
8
@Lane
And who will be the judge of what counts as “malicious”?
@Michael Stern Fair enough, Getting into the minutiae where to draw the lines is the problem, who gets fired for what and who decides these outcomes? Currently it seems media/mob driven getting some sort of satisfaction and pleasure in getting someone fired or careers ruined. A mob is a mob.These trends easily get ever more restrictive not the other way around. See how how the Chinese people can't mock their flag,anthem, leaders, party. Can you guarantee it won't lead to that?.. with a Progressive socialist virtue signaling democrat mob leading it.. its worrisome.
One problem is that the nature of comedy has changed. Put-down humor is the most popular form out there. Comedians adopt an air of superiority and take the audience along with them.
This form of comedy works if the put-down is of an individual (a-la-Groucho) rather than of a group.
When a person is ridiculed for being pompous or foolish, everyone can share in the humor.
Even so, there's no rule that says that comedy has to be based on making fun of others. Laurel and Hardy spent their career making fun of themselves. That's something you don't see too often now.
Fortunately, people are rejecting comedy that stigmatizes groups. It may force comedians to be more original with their material.
3
Isn't "Cancel Culture" just a new term used by people of privilege who don't want to face "consequences"?
25
@Christopher
The problem is that the social justice warriors appoint themselves to be the arbiters of who has "privilege" and what "consequences" they deserve as a result. When the shoe is on the other foot, the same SJW's squeal and call it "fascism."
6
Emily Post has already written a book on how to behave.
The Left should just read it and then suggest it to those who don't follow it. We don't need a new set of rules.
1
This article reeks with resentment. Yes, women can be just as funny as men. Yes, it's not fair that straight white men continue to dominate our institutions. We should do things that empower these disadvantaged individuals, not things that vindictively destroy the careers of white men.
Mr. Gillis didn't make these jokes on SNL. They were on his podcast, which has a markedly different audience. You can't say he disregarded his audience because he was fired before he was able to take the stage. You must know that different sets are performed for different events and audiences. Millions of Americans think offensive statements can be funny. Those individuals were his audience, and evidently they thought he was great at his job.
As a parallel example, black comedians like Eddie Griffin often make jokes at the expense of white people. Yet, you are not calling for his head because he made racist jokes on a BET comedy special.
This modern outrage machine has no consistency other than its dogged hatred of anyone white, straight, and male who has not perfectly toed the ever changing line of political correctness. Mr. Gillis was fired because SNL didn't want to deal with the deluge of Internet-fueled hatred-- not because his audience was sick of his jokes.
You don't get to prescribe what is or isn't good comedy. Go and be "brave," or go listen to Mr. Woods's set. But stop pretending that you're doing more than reveling in a white man's disgrace simply because he's a white man.
41
"Comedy, like so many of our cultural institutions, remains dominated by men, usually straight and white men."
Who aren't funny.
At some point, comedy went from comics making clever jokes to comics whining about their lives. It may be cheap but at least it's lazy.
3
@Diego
Somebody obviously thinks they are funny or they wouldn't be "dominating" the comedy market. It could be that you just don't have the same sense of humor.
2
When did we all become so fragile?
12
@ms6709 You could take any volunteer for the poor, social worker, nun, priest, monk et. al. and dig through their past and they would all be fired.
1
I think Maeve is just referring to clean comedy? She wants to go back to the 1950s where it was squeaky clean one liners about the mailman. If there is an audience for that in 2019, I say go for it, but please don't ruin the raunchy, shocking, and offensive humor that some of us enjoy! At the end of the day they are just words, and it is patently crazy to think that a comedian with any of the "identities" Maeve listed would quit comedy because they heard a joke about their identity. That is the soft bigotry of lowered expectations. I can't think of a culture that has taken more "racist" jokes than the Irish, and yet half of the world's comedians seem to be Irish (including Maeve herself!). If you can't take a joke, how can you expect to make it in comedy?
4
@WIllis but is it a joke? Or is it an insult and the laughter a way of egging on the racial slur?
1
Maybe if comedy was a bit less coarse and confronting no one would ever need to make disgusting comments about people. The problem would solve itself. But slurs, profanity, and drug references are easy laugh lines these days and take no creativity. Take a stand for decency and this problem will take care of itself.
1
I'm a woman, and an ethnic minority. Now in my 60's, I've lived through all sorts of entertainment that has been called "humor". I've seen the high points (Newhart, Pryor, Carlin), and the low points.
What I find sickening about male comics (mostly white) is that they think denigrating people of color, or joking about sexual assault, is funny. It isn't. It's disgusting.
But worse, it sends a message to people like me. It says we're fair game to be mocked and harassed. That we're lesser humans. After all, if this famous guy gets on a stage and does this, then it's fine if everybody else mistreats "those people". And taking this idea to its logical yet sickening conclusion is what gave us Trump.
And this "humor" gets translated into people's behavior. The Republican Senate brushed off serious, corroborated allegations of sexual harassment and assault against Bret Kavanaugh. The disgusting incidents were all a joke to them. But recall what Dr. Ford said, when she was asked about what she remembered most clearly about the assault. She said, "The laughter." The disgusting, mocking smirks of Kavanaugh and his buddy.
Think making racial slurs is funny? Think sexual assault is a joke? One would need only live in my body for 24 hours to understand how sickening this is.
142
His humor is not funny-it’s mean. Glad SNL let him go.
9
You know what. Maeve's right. If we're going to talk social morality and injustice, comedy is indeed in the stone age when it comes to diversity ...i.e. the hands of mostly white guys... and OMG a comedian said something offensive and the iconic SNL determined the tone and tenor of his podcast was not something they wanted associated with their Brand. Well, the entertainment industry is described with two words: show... and business. And both can be unrelenting when stakes are high. The issue was not being edgy, or insulting. The issue was that it wasn't funny and came off mean. Like it or not, SNL is middle of the road American TV...not a Richard Pryor special...no, it's Network broadcasting.
It has its own unspoken boundaries and rules... which aren't written out. It's like Sondheim once said... ordinary people aren't professional lyricists but they recognize a fresh rhyme when they hear one. Same for comedy, and comedians. It's too easy to make an ethnic slur and then ask to be recognized as a genius. People have been doing that for centuries but the thing is, if you borrow that technique.... you gotta pay back with interest. Or suffer the consequences.
4
Why do you want to censor and where do you stop?
Singling out certain groups for protection is a paternalistic and condescending thing, especially when applied to comedy. It's supposed to make you uncomfortable. you are saying the groups that you want to protect don't understand or can't handle this fact.
Which groups are fair game for ridicule and by whom. can an Asian make fun of an Asian. What about a Japanese person do they have privilege compared to a Vietnamese. What if one of them is gay or disabled? Is there a literal calculus to help us determine what's kosher. Can I use the word Kosher, I'm not Jewish?
Is it actually OK to make fun of people with peanut allergies as your friend was intending? Can he make fun of situations around peanut allergies without emotionally triggering peanut allergy sufferers?
These questions seem ridiculous but they could cost you your livelihood if you're a comic and answer wrong.
3
I don’t feel too bad for Gillis. He will be ok.
He’ll probably be offered a job in the Trump Administration. He’ll be a folk hero on 4chan. And the Rush Limbaugh crowd will make him their new Jeff Foxworthy.
And since he’s a bigot he’ll finally be with his people, who will agree that he’s not a racist but an “edgy boundary-pusher,” bravely pushing the boundaries between now and 1950.
5
Dave Chappelle, Bill Burr and Kevin Hart, three of the funniest comedians today, don't meet your standards. Amy Schumer, Whitney Cummings and Wand Sykes do but they are not as funny. Not even close. Before you say "spoken like a misogynist" none of them are even close to Joan Rivers. Rivers could be as sick as any of the younger comedians, and they were all younger when she was alive. She knew how to keep up with the times and still be funny.
Comedians sometimes go to far even for me but if all they're doing is giving political lectures no matter how much its punched up with the performers personality it still remains a political lecture.
Jack Benny, if you ever heard of him, was one the greatest comedians who ever lived. He went back to the day when radio was the I phone. He wasn't dirty or sick but by todays standards, even tough he was Jewish, told many Jewish jokes. Jews found funny at least back then. His biggest running gag was how cheap he was but there was a lot more to him than stereotypical humor. Would he be fired by whoever elected themselves as guardians of our character if he was around today.
7
Is comedy "dominated by men, usually straight and white men"? Maybe if you only take a superficial glance at it. Minus the Bill Burr special that just released the last few stand up specials I've viewed have all been black or Indian or gay or etc. Out of the last 5 comics I've seen on tour in my town only one was a "straight and white" and he was Jewish (a minority religion whose % of victim's of hate crimes has gone way up during this administration).
Of course there's room for more voices, I want to hear them all, from all walks of life and perspectives, but who is "silencing" these people? I want to know so I can stop giving them my business, is it local comedy clubs or Network execs or Streaming services? It's not hard to support comics you like in the era of Patreon and Youtube, maybe the voices you think are being silenced just aren't funny. Most good comics are offensive, punching up well always makes for better jokes, but comics should have the freedom to fail at their craft and not be punished for it forever.
4
The self-righteous glee of this piece certainly won't hurt the forces now threatening liberal culture in the US, and everywhere else. This kind of "laughter" goes around and comes around. People identified as a group don't like to be told their rights are somehow less important--however persuasive the reasons given. Sympathize all you want with the "politics" of this piece, it's more of the same poison that's been circulating through the West's media system for the past twenty years, and surely has contributed to the rise of the Reaction that's threatening to sink all our bosts--color, gender, sexual orientation, whatever.
7
Dave Chappelle's Sticks and Stones got a score of zero when it was reviewed by established critics because it was deemed too offensive. When the review was opened to the public, however, it quickly earned a score of 99. This "cancel culture" phenomenon sure feels like a social media social-engineering campaign. I side with free speech.
6
Thank you for writing this.
3
SNL: hire this woman comedian asap! She is brilliant!
3
Maybe a service dog could help Ms. Higgins see the irony in her absolute condemnation.
5
My own personal standard -- not that it should be anyone else's -- is that a comedian can be tasteless, as long as he/she delivers the laughs. (I also find that tasteless usually ISN'T funny, and only someone especially talented can navigate that fine line to good effect.)
What I've seen of Shane Gillis's work just isn't funny. And his language isn't shocking or edgy, it's just lowest-common-denominator cheap-and-easy.
The SNL cast has been too large for many seasons. Remember the first five years? There were only seven original Not Ready For Prime Time Players (plus semi-regulars George Coe and Franken & Davis)! SNL will be just fine without Shane Gillis, whether or not they replace his empty slot on the roster.
As for the people who are comparing Shane Gillis to George Carlin and Lenny Bruce, the latter pair fused comedy with social commentary. Gillis's work seems to be lacking all profundity that would elevate him to a level on par with those legends.
25
@D Price Why do you think that your particular tastes in what's funny or not should determine what others laugh at or joke about? Some people don't like female comedians talking non-stop about their private parts. Do you think they shouldn't be allowed either?
1
@Jim
Reread my post, Jim.
Did I not start by saying:
"My own personal standard -- not that it should be anyone else's..."?
3
"Your words have consequences. Imagine! " That's really all that needed to be said. There was a time when humor made the people targeted part of the joke and people laughed with them and not at them. When humor becomes cruel, it says a great deal about the humorist and the people who are laughing.
9
I’m reading the comments. Gosh, it’s hard to be a straight white man! Especially when people don’t laugh at my “jokes”. And by jokes I mean racist slurs with no insights or twists or commentary or pushing of real boundaries, just calling people names.
26
@Alex B but it’s not just white men who do that. Dave Chappelle? George Lopez?
2
Oh puh-lease. So basically you're saying, it's ok to squelch Gillis because he's a white man, and a crude one? That he's some sort of sacrificial lamb, an offering to the Diversity Gods who have been so outraged over the comedy industry's white male patriarchal oppression -- bullying! -- of oppressed minorities?
GOOD. GRIEF.
32
@Harry Mylar Yes, that's exactly it. Soft totalitarianism is coming to America, and people who look like Gillis will be the kulaks.
5
@Harry Mylar Thank you for this textbook example of projection.
6
@Harry Mylar My sentiments exactly.
2
At the exact same time this hoopla is going on Trenton New Jersey City council people proclaimed that saying "Jew" as a pejorative is perfectly acceptable. You had similar and actually worse anti-Semitism going on in the city council in DC less than 2 years ago. I find it hard to take the hoopla over this man's rhetoric seriously giving that anti-asian and anti-jewish slurs and sentiment have been routinely expressed by black Democrats from the 70s to this very day without any fanfare. And much of it is as bad as what this man said. And most of it does not get an apology or any consequences. And nobody is willing to say what is obvious which is that there's an enormous amount of violence that is incited by this rhetoric. And everybody is too much of a coward to say anything.
3
@Lisa R whataboutism at its finest
1
@Ken nope. We shouldn't be holding comedians to higher standards than powerful
especially with these are the same Democrats who constantly call Republicans racist l
Thanks for womansplaining this to us.
13
SNL has come a long way...
From "I'm going to get me a shotgun and kill all the whiteys I see..."
To this.
I haven't heard the joke that got this guy cancelled, but just because it got him fired, I won't rule out it being funny...
People need to get over themselves. If you don't like something, don't watch. But don't cancel it for the rest of us... let us make up our own minds.
3
But if this Shane Gillis guy had already been making money for CBS, they’d be playing a different tune.
1
And people still wonder how Trump got elected. The politically correct policing of free speech is one of many reasons. You don’t like a comedian’s humor, don’t watch his show. It’s that simple.
19
@Olivia if the producers don't like his humor, then they don't have to hire him. Also that simple.
24
@April
Clearly, they liked his humor... They hired him. What they don't like is negative feedback harming their brand. He was going to do his lame Asian podcast bits on SNL. Could you imagine?
1
@April They just help to get Trump re-elected.
2
The hand-wringing about so-called comedic censorship is risible.
Seinfeld doesn't do standup any more because he's concerned about offending people? Well, maybe that's the right decision for us as well as him.
What would we make of Don Rickles today? I don't know because it's doubtful he would be the Don Rickles we know: Polish jokes have gone out of style. A time-displaced Al Jolson wouldn't gain fame (at least, not the good kind) doing blackface, either.
The world changes. Tastes change. Life goes on.
If you find the so-called boundary-pushing Gillis engages in funny, fine, be part of his audience. To me he denigrates cultures and people simply for not being like him, and I won't pay to watch an adult version of the eight-year-old bullies I knew.
25
The problem here, is that this is not just a singular instance where SNL fired a guy because they didn't vet his comedic history thoroughly enough. It's that it's indicative of a larger trend in society where being "offended" now gives one license to end someone else's career. It's also indicative of a society that, due to the ubiquitous nature of permanently stored digital information, has complete transcripts of everything you've ever said or written, and as a result, a single instance of bad judgement can end you career.
The effect is, and will continue to be, an ever increasing sense of self-censorship due to the potential fallout if your thoughts or actions ever come under the radar.
And that is a truly chilling, Orwellian, state of mind and society to be living in.
39
@Chicago Guy Orwellian? Reframe it as incentive to be a little more clever, and to rethink the racial epithets and other cheap shots that may have previously been part of your repertoire.
8
@Chicago Guy is that really what is happening here? Not getting a job on SNL is not ending someones career. Also tired old racist jokes are not opinions and if they correspond with your opinions then they don't serve your choice of career. Lastly, straight white males could all do well to practice some self censorship. Not every thought to cross our minds is worthy of entering the public conversation.
9
@Chicago Guy
"The effect is, and will continue to be, an ever increasing sense of self-censorship due to the potential fallout if your thoughts or actions ever come under the radar."
Or maybe it will eventually result in more kindness and understanding, when people stop regurgitating racial tropes without thinking about about the deeper implications behind their words?
Shane Gillis' quotes weren't just offensive, they were racist. As an Asian American, I might be offended by a joke about Asians being nerdy or driving badly. But Shane Gillis took obvious delight in saying deeply cutting, totally not funny things, on a podcast that would be broadcast nationally. I'm surprised/not surprised that so many people, mainly white and male, refuse to consider that his comments were meant to be cruel and hurtful. Why do you think you're the one that gets to decide what is offensive or racist? I'm Asian and I and every other Asian person I know, was offended. Why won't you accept that?
14
The problem is if your shtick requires you to say things on stage that make people in the audience cringe, then what you're saying isn't funny and people go to stand-up shows to be amused, not to be offended or put off. The most successful stand-up comics know how to draw the line as to when hilarity stops and vulgarity begins. One example of "comedy" that stepped way over the line was when Gilbert Gottfried, during a roast of Hugh Hefner, told a joke about 9/11 barely a week after the horrific incident in which he said something to the effect of "fly American, we hit the trade towers before United." There was no grey area there, that was completely inappropriate. Another example was when Seth MacFarlane hosted the Oscars, he mistakingly thought it was OK to make a joke about the Lincoln assassination because it happened 150 years ago. Those are clear examples of things you just don't make jokes about. Finally with regards to the so-called "cancel culture," I think shaming people who take offense to jokes that are not funny is just as bad as shaming comedians over every joke they tell.
17
@Orange County What do Abraham Lincoln and an '80s sitcom have in common?
Both were shot before a live audience. :)
3
Who decides what’s funny. You? If you are easily offended don’t go to comedy shows.
1
@Mario Quadracci @Garrick My! Aren't you both sensitive! Sounds like it's the both of you that are not enlightened.
2
Thank you, Maeve! Well done!
25
Asians and fat people are among the last "acceptable" targets of bullies who masquerade as comedians. Intelligent comedians who truly know their craft can find the funny in other cultures without resorting to racial slurs. As far as comedians generating laughs at the expense of overweight people, just stop.
41
Don’t forget Germans and cheerleaders.
1
@Robin Except this has nothing to do with who's "clever" enough to do jokes without resorting to certain topics. It's the fact that people are demanding that everyone only joke about the things they find funny and acceptable, or not be allowed to have a job.
Somehow I don't find calling 'Chinese people "chinks" cutting edge humor. Seems it always white male comics who think it's really funny to ridicule ethnic groups, women, gays, or anyone not like them. I don't think it censorship, he can tell those jokes in clubs, but I don't want him on SNL.
162
@Jerry S
Au contraire Jer... In fact, comics of all genders, colors, persuasions make fun of other genders, colors, and persuasions. It's all in how it's done. Next time you're singling out white males, check yerself. I do agree, however, the cutting edge humor argument is bogus.
10
"Firstly, I don’t know where this idea of being edgy for the sake of edgy came from. Comedy’s about making people laugh. By thinking it’s all about “pushing boundaries”, you’re cutting yourself off from so many of the great tools of comedy - absurdism, surrealism, wordplay, physical comedy, non-sequiturs - and instead just being a great tool of comedy all on your own.
Secondly, what boundary is being pushed by using old racist Asian jokes where you swap your Ls and Rs? The only boundary pushed past there is a use-by date, and by about 5 or 6 decades.
Thirdly, there’s no “risk” to edgy or offensive comedy. Either people laugh, and you get to defend yourself with “see, it’s funny!” or they don’t laugh, and you defend yourself with “it’s meant to be offensive, that’s the point”. What are you risking, really, when you’re likely months away from a Netflix special (probably called Cancelled or Triggered) where you somehow say all the things you supposedly can’t say?" - Anna Piper Scott
21
Lets face the facts, if Shane Gillis had the skills of and rep of a young Eddie Murphy and they found old video of him crossing the lines of what cancel culture says can be said, they would have stayed with the guy and waited the storm out. He doesn't have those skills or reputation as far as the general public is concerned, hence the decision was relatively easy for SNL to cave in. I would worry more about the precedent in this incident and the narrowing of freedom of speech. With first rate standup comedians like Bill Maher, Bill Burr, Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle that all jump back and forth across the line (sometimes to find out where not they think, but the public thinks it is), the rise of cancel culture and wokeness is a lot more dangerous than a few comics crossing the line on occasion. If the offense is really big enough and they are that verbally unskilled that they keep doing it, their career is going to implode anyway without the current requisite I am offended from the other side of the planet outcry. Maher has warned more than once that part of what elected Trump and has the potential to re-elect him is the combination of PC and cancel culture, and if George Carlin was still walking the planet he would have said the same thing. The average individual isn't some sort of hothouse flower that needs to be protected from hearing something that could be perceived as offensive, if the cost is that comedian's acts and social commentary from anyone is diminished.
20
@Kevin Oy, way to ignore everything the essay writer said.
"I would worry more about the precedent in this incident and the narrowing of freedom of speech."
Ms. Higgins argues that the point of view in the comedy club already tends to be narrow. Do you agree? Did you read what she wrote or did you rush to make your comment.
"With first rate standup comedians like [a bunch of middle-aged men, many of whom are really kind of jerks]..."
Yeeaaaah, did you read the essay at all? There's more to life than Bill Maher. Anyway, this is the point where I stopped reading your comment.
4
@Kevin
I’ve noticed the only people that refer to folks that may be just a bit tired of racism for laughs in the guise of boldness, or, on the other end of the spectrum (and unrelated, to be sure), people that desire sane gun control, or toning down the misogyny, etc., use words like “woke”, or the new “cancel culture”, are people defending their own odd issues.
Do we have to create new buzzwords every focking (hat-tip Art Kumbalek) time people are just tired of hateful references to people we live, work, love, and even, yes, get irritated by every day? Just a thought.
4
@Kevin
In what way would you consider that Shane Gillis podcast about Chinese people to be social commentary?
7
Isn't there still room for all types of humor? And is it a requirement that a comic has to mean what he or she says? How long ago was Lenny Bruce and later, Andrew Dice Clay around? Turn the channel.
7
"his care for the craft made the craft disappear"
beautifully written.
35
This is one of the best opinion pieces I've ever had the pleasure to read. My only question is: why don't I know you better? My answer: I will.
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@syfredrick I heard Ms. Higgins interviewed on NPR some months ago and she was a treat.
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catch her when she's part of the panel on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. She has a unique, delightful comedic sensibility. (wow! Describing comedy is painfully unfunny)
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@syfredrick
Ms. Higgins has been one of Neil Degrasse Tyson's rotating guest comedians on StarTalk, on the Nat Geo channel, in the past. I don't know whether she will be in the future.
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I guess making sure there are people of different ages represented would be tough, since most comedy clubs are probably filled with those below 35 years of age? They might find them too irrelevant right now.
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What a beautiful, down-to-earth, sane opinion piece.
Thank you.
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"The problem is when Mr. Gillis — and the others like him — frame their words as bold and boundary pushing and brave."
No, they're just vulgar and offensive.
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@View from the street
That's the thing though. When did he or anyone else say it was brave?
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I wonder what would happen to a guy like Don Rickles today? A man who ruthlessly excoriated everyone and everything.
I think Don Imus is a good case in point here. The big difference between Don Imus and someone like Howard Stern, is that Imus could dish it out, but he couldn't take it, whereas Stern could. Stern was endlessly self-deprecating.
The other thing to keep in mind here, and I cannot overstate it's importance in this discussion of propriety, is intention.
I, for one, feel fairly capable of telling when someone is telling a joke using stereotypes, and one that is meant to truly denigrate. Mean-spirited-ness is never funny. Bitter condescension is never funny. And this all goes towards a judgment of the comics intent.
It seems to me that some people would like to sideline that aspect of the comedic experience. And I don't think that's a very good idea.
If we are going to simply say, "Well, if anyone is offended, then that comic needs to be put out of business", we are going down a very dark road. Because no matter what the joke is, or how tame it may be, there will always be someone who can find "offense" in it. And that would mean the end of comedy as we know it.
Comedy is ultimately about taste. And taste is, and should remain, a subjective thing. Once you make taste objective, then 1984 and the thought police will have arrived.
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@Chicago Guy
Don Rickles didn't rely on racism to get a laugh.
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@Chicago Guy
"I, for one, feel fairly capable of telling when someone is telling a joke using stereotypes, and one that is meant to truly denigrate. Mean-spirited-ness is never funny. Bitter condescension is never funny. And this all goes towards a judgment of the comics intent."
Umm... And you really think Shane Gillis' jokes did not have the intention to denigrate or bitterly condescend? I don't think you are as capable as you think you are in this area.
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@Chicago Guy. I never found Don Rickles funny. He was the mean spirited, school yard bully.
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I know a man who is helping Judy Gold write a book on how comics are being stifled, etc. I wish they would both read this thoughtful piece instead.
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Some people need to be told what is funny and what's not?
Some people need to be told not to smoke.
Some people need to be told what to read.
Some people need to be told not to Vape.
Some people need to be told who to vote for and what to think.
This list is endless.
The good news is the Left loves to tell everyone what to do and what to think.
We're so lucky.
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@P&L "The good news is the Left loves to tell everyone what to do and what to think."
You mean the Extreme Left. And the Extreme Right tells us that Trump is the King of Israel and the Son of God (and, of course, our self-designated Chosen One agrees). Extreme Rightists tell us what to think and do, also. They are heavily imbued with religious fanaticism, something the Founders warned against.
I'm on the Left and I hate PC. I even have some conservative beliefs. And the only thing I would tell you to do is be more precise in your political characterizations.
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@P&L
With that particular attitude, we’d still have Amos and Andy, blackface, etc., that was hilarious at one time. A lot of this is simply moving forward and finding our balance.
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@P&L. Sorry, pal...the right is micromanaging everything now.
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He is just not funny at all. Not a talented guy. You wonder why on earth they were hiring him to begin with. Look at his sets. Not funny at all.
I actually like it when comics push boundaries, but this guy is neither pushing boundaries nor funny.
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@Rax
Yup, you hit the nail on the head. Nothing about the guy or his act seems even remotely funny.
No loss here. Buh-bye.
Billy on.
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@Rax I'm sorry, but having been to one of his sets, he had just about everyone--black, white, etc--in tears. It seems your sense of humor is one that doesn't favor standup. That's okay, but your conclusions are purely subjective. Go on YouTube and check out his material. His set with 500k+ views now has people in hysterics. That's how it was when I saw him too.
You clearly do not like when comics push boundaries.
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Isn't it a fundamental aspect of comedy that there is always someone that is being made fun of? Can someone please give an example of a joke, where there is no brunt? Even if it's self-deprecating, there is still a brunt.
To me, the whole concept of humor is that there is an "us" and "them". The "us" is those that "get it". And the "them" are the subject of it.
Certainly, some jokes are mean spirited. But, they're usually not very funny. But this idea that we can have comedians go onstage and not offend anyone, to me, sounds completely absurd.
If Shane Gillis' humor is too harsh, or makes people uncomfortable, so be it. He's lost his spot on SNL. And perhaps that was appropriate, as that is a main stream comedic outlet.
But, I would say that if we start to apply what is now becoming a more and more draconian metric in judging humor, it's a fairly safe bet that the original SNL broadcasts from the 70's would be banned all together.
Yes, comedy changes. Just as social mores do. But what is most disturbing here, to me, is that people are trying to fundamentally change the nature of humor. And, I'm sorry, but that simply cannot be done. Because the very nature of comedy is making jokes. And jokes are always and invariably "about" someone.
Lastly, I would like to point out the incredibly chilling effect of a society that has the ability to go back and look at everything you've ever said or written, and then make broad judgments about who and what you are.
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@Chicago Guy , you're right about the SNL episodes from the '70's (which, personally, I believe were exponentially funnier and better-written, and were made up of a much more talented cast who weren't so obviously reading from cue cards). I do, however, remember that the "It's Pat" routines troubled me, even as a clueless, straight teen. And "Mr. Bill" could give me nightmares, but it was so darkly hilarious and subversive.
So it's hard to know where to draw the line. "Cancel culture" angers and frightens me, but I do believe that care must be taken not to truly hurt people. I wish Trump had been cancelled when, for example, he mocked a disabled person (and a host of other reasons, of course). Yet to have speech and behavior so easily controlled by some Twitter squad seems just wrong. I'm a big girl now; if I find something offensive or hurtful in entertainment I have all the skills necessary to make the decision to turn it off (and possibly make my feelings known by directly contacting the network, etc.).
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Your last point is so prescient. Thoughtcrimes are right around the corner.
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@Chicago Guy: There's a big difference between making fun of what people do (lots of people do dumb stuff!) and making fun of what people are. How is it funny to criticize someone's skin color or ethnicity?
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The politically correct left is all about de-platforming -- whether you're talking about 8chan and Alex Jones, or Shane Gillis and Michael Kramer, or Charles Murray at Middleburry. Justice Brandeis once said that sunlight was the best disinfectant, but the urge to deplatform offensive speech shows that the real goal is to create thought crimes. Trump's rise is in large part a reaction to political correctness.
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@Derek
Alex Jones? Really? You're trying to conflate Alex Jones' conduct with that of Shane Gillis? You're out of depth.
Trump's rise isn't a reaction to political correctness it's about taking pride in the abolishment of it.
And "political correctness" is largely: understanding, compassion, empathy, comportment, fairness, good manners, and basic human decency - by another name.
If being an overt, condescending, self-serving, loud-mouthed, moronic racist is what it means to be non-PC, then I hope to remain PC until the day I die.
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@Derek
This author is not "deplatforming" anyone; she is just describing why she lost her appetite for a certain kind of comedy. As she writes in the 5th paragraph: "I’ve seen countless versions of Shane Gillis and his material truly spread all over the world, and I’m not about to wrestle the mic from them. I have no problem with anybody speaking their piece, even when it’s lazy and xenophobic. I’m not going to listen, but please, get that off your chest, son! If the most absorbing and insightful thing Mr. Gillis and his buddies have to sound off on is that they find Chinatown to be ugly, then by all means, go right on ahead."
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@Derek
yeah, it's terrible that Charles Murray didn't get to talk at Middlebury (he did) or that Alex Jones has been silenced (he has a very popular show) or that Shane Gillis is unemployed (he's not). *There is no cancel culture*. You can say the phrase as many times as you want, but this world wherein these people are somehow prevented from saying what they think, spreading their nonsense, and even profiting from it...it just doesn't exist. Own your persecution fantasy, my guy.
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Just lovely, Maeve. Humane, elegant, funny, sophisticated, insightful. Thank you for advocating that comedy can be beautiful, can lighten our burdens and enlighten us. It can be creative not bullying or cheaply mocking. Comedy requiring thought, careful craft and attention to feelings, our own and those of the others.
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@Madeleine Forest
Should this definition apply to all comedy? And that's the point. Should we only allow the Shakespeare's and Goethe's of the world a stage? While all other, "lesser" writers should be put out of business?
Brilliant comedy is a great and wonderful thing to behold. But it is not the alpha and the omega of it.
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@Madeleine Forest ABSOLUTELY!
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@Madeleine Forest
Ugh. I don't know what you're describing, but it ain't comedy.
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I wonder what Lenny Bruce or George Carlin would say? Both skewered the Judeo-Christian mythologies and is that too much different than using stereotypes in comedy. It needs to be good comedy to not be offensive. Jerry Seinfeld doesn't swear in his routines but has also given up much of the comedy circuit because someone will always be offended. I rarely watch SNL now as the comedy doesn't work for me, so maybe the answer is that if you don't like it, turn it off.
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@Christopher Szala
As near as I can remember, the closest that Carlin came to racial humor was his bit about the Indian staff sergeant. It was an hilarious and humanizing bit that made fun of the formulaic and stereotypical Indian war scenes in the Westerns of his day. He was way too intelligent and clever to stoop to Gillis' level.
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@Christopher Szala
Yea, I tuned out SNL when their entire comedy platform was simply "trump".
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@Christopher Szala The difference is in the "punching down" distinction that comics often make. You can punch up -- you can skewer a group that has entrenched power (and Judeo-Christian views certainly qualify.) It's a lot lazier to punch down -- to kick groups that are already out of power and struggling, especially by relying on stereotypes against them. That just feels like bullying.
Repeating stereotypes and pretending you're bold, just because you're offensive, is lazy comedy.
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Everyone has skeletons in their closet. Living in a world where ALL past actions are judged with current morals would be horrible. And I think that’s the point a lot of people who are against ‘cancel culture’ are trying to make. It’s a slippery slope once we start policing speech too aggressively.
This type of humour is not worth rallying behind though. It’s crass and very basic. I’m not sure how anyone could argue that these jokes are anything but that. However, there’s a lot of grey area once you move past simple stereotype-driven low hanging fruit type jokes. There are some groups that think comedians shouldn’t even mention or talk about certain things in jokes. Even if the joke is not aimed AT a marginalized/oppressed group, people get upset. Often even when the joke is making fun of the bigotry itself.
There’s nuance to both sides of this discussion, and I feel that was lacking in this article.
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SNL came from a specific tradition of Harvard Lampoon in the 60s, Second City, the Groundlings, and Upright Citizen's Brigade. Let's also not forget that Lorne Michaels is Canadian. The tradition is generous, inclusive, self-critical, joyous, and affirming. Mr. Gillis isn't being canceled, he just doesn't fit the tradition. There are other forums such as Comedy Central roasts where he might fit but his release from SNL was not only judicious but necessary.
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Exactly. This is just SNL making a decision. Not someone being ‘cancelled’.
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@Peter Quince
While I agree, there is something more going on here than just SNL firing a guy because they didn't vet his comedic history thoroughly enough.
This is indicative of a larger trend in society where being "offended" now gives one license to end someones career.
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@Kyle Tallon Thank you, Kyle. Glad you see it the same way.
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To me his jokes simply showed a lack of finesse and understanding. I don't believe that a comedian should only make jokes about their own race. Stand up is one of those rare places in society where people can speak candidly. But if an unskilled comedian makes an ill-timed or poorly-phrased joke about race, it will become offensive rather than funny and clever. You can speak and joke about stereotypes and still respect the culture and the people.
I'm Asian - I know full well what the stereotypes are and I can laugh at them. I'm curious to know, did he workshop his content with different audiences? It's one thing to perform for an audience you know well and another to perform for a national one. The last paragraph talked about the care that Wood put into his routine. I don't think Gillis' work was done with the same care. It just seemed ignorant. The one about Asian people learning to speak English being more annoying than people playing loud music on their phones admittedly struck a nerve. I don't think Gillis has ever had to struggle a day in his life as an immigrant or with the powerlessness that comes with learning a new language. I see it daily in my community and my family. And you know, I think if he put in a little more effort in I might have been able to laugh with him.
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Gillis is from a generation that is fully versed in the pitfalls of social media. So, I can't feel too sorry for him, especially when making an attempt to apologise when it's actually condensing. Yet I do feel some compassion for his loss of making it to SNL, not an easy feat.
Those who whine about not being able to mock others in their routines IMO are lacking the confidence to actually do the work. They want the fame, glory but none of responsibility of the power their jokes carry.
Gillis and his ilk should welcome this as an opportunity for personal growth. Some of the best stand up (Richard Pryor on his crack addiction comes to mind) comes from that.
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@Teresa It sounds like you should probably be aware that none of the greats, CERTAINLY Richard Pryor, wouldn't survive modern day made-of-glass culture. Pryor, Chase, Martin, Carlin...go watch some stand-up from the 80's.
The god-parents of comedy wouldn't have existed if this mindset existed then.
Do we gain, yes. But be aware of what we lose and weigh the scales.
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@Will..... not sure if you are old enough to have been there when these fine comics were performing standup? but they were using a scalpel and they tweaked the audience's intellect. the likes of Gillis are using a rusty axe and rely on beating the laughs out of their audience. Richard Pryor in particular was outrageous in his social commentary but he was not laughing at others with cheap shots. if anything he was exposing his own raw feelings of doubt and fear. by the way, if you can find it? the most outrageous routine he did was at a gay sponsored civil rights gathering in LA back in the 80s..... his commentary was vicious and unexpected by those that hired him..... but he remained true to himself as a man and a comedian. his star was never dimmed. they'd have him on SNL in a heartbeat if he was still around..... he was brilliant. gillis? not really.
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The new cancel culture though will just water down comedy bits further, making the industry more boring than it currently is in our PC-obsessed world. Sad.
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@Prof Emeritus NYC Actually, I think we're witnessing the effects of evolution, where the strongest -- and funniest -- will survive. Clearly, Gillis is a piker. He's the guy everyone at Frat Parties thought was funny. Hardy har har har. Stand-up is shedding its white, straight, privileged male skin. I look forward to experiencing the fresher, newer comedy yet to be revealed.
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@Prof Emeritus NYC
That situation can and does happen, and while I wouldn't quote the big gas bag, it is, as you note, not a happy thing.
But in this case, any comedy from this guy was already fairly diluted to begin with. Nothing funny to see or hear here, move along, move along.
The guy's racial "jokes" (if that is what they were) were not funny, and didn't seem at all like jokes.
Save your sadness for situations where your point is actually applicable.
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@Prof Emeritus NYC
I know. Think of what we're missing.
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