For once I agree with the President.
Fifth International is based on Solidarity.
When Kushner Companies and/or Trump Organization need financial support whom can they rely on? Not on Times readers, not on Air Force paying lodging fees in money losing golf courses. No. No. You rely on real Friends with cash.
Trump made it clear this is Saudi's problem not the US'. We don't need the oil so the Europeans and Chinese better figure out how to solve the Iran problem.
I would call it the American problem, but sure, we have to figure out something.
1
As a failed real estate developer, with his family's financial ties to Saudi Arabia, Trump's deference to the Saudis is not surprising.
5
Trump makes it clear that the US is "willing to be a mercenary force" for Saudi Arabia.
“The fact is the Saudis are going to have a lot of involvement in this if we decide to do something,” he said. “They’ll be very much involved. And that includes payment. And they understand that fully.”
Under such circumstances the Saudis would never win a war against Iran, because they would rely heavily on the US to do the heavy lifting for them, as long as they foot the bill.
Has the US not learnt its lessons from the Vietcong and the Taliban? It's not military hardware that counts in winning a war.
2
Just imagine the uproar among Republicans if this were a Democratic president.
10
Remember the handshake between Putin and MBS at the G-20? So affectionate, so familiar. We wondered what they were laughing about. Now we’re all about to learn the punchline.
11
It is a smart move. By inviting Saudi Arabia, Trump is asking them to bear the ensuing financial and collateral costs plus shoulder all long term strategic cost of action. I don't think the Kingdom will go for it. He appears to be forcing a Saudi-Iran Detente.
3
Thank you for this comment. I think your appraisal is right on. In this Americans should back Trump. After two tours in Afghanistan and one in Iraq and one in Saudi Arabia and Iraq I have to say that in this part of the world the negotiators and glad handers welcome American participation because they worship the dollar more than they worship Allah. Even the Taliban probably see an American withdrawal is a very damaging event because they will lose the opportunity to earn a lot of payola. What struck me in Afghanistan was it I never once saw a fuel delivery truck hit...... an easy target and immune from getting hit because the businessmen take the money that the United States pays and take a portion and pay off the Taliban or other warlord who live well on the proceeds buying houses in the gulf and Europe and even in Irvine and Santa Barbara.
3
Why does Trump defer to the Saudis? It is doubtful you will find a reasonable answer if you assume he has the best interests of the US as his focus.
However, if one assumes that the interests which drive the deference are those of Trump Inc, it makes perfect sense.
We have no idea about the financial condition of the various Trump companies. Trump has resisted the release of any information which might shed light on this. If his companies were in great shape, why would he feel the need to use his office to generate income? Also, he has clearly had considerable difficulty getting financing from legitimate lenders. Since he is the self-styled “King of Debt”, it seems unlikely that his businesses have been thriving.
The only rational conclusion from the above is that Trump is driven by the same motivation which has characterized his whole life: personal greed.
That same conclusion can easily explain his kowtowing to authoritarian leaders such as Putin and Kim. They are probably seen as source of salvation for Trump Inc.
One thing which is certain: Trump is not motivated by concern for anyone except himself and his family. The man has no compassion, no integrity. In a word, he has no soul.
8
It doesn't "look that way" at all, Mr. Trump.
IF the drones came from Iran, they would have had to fly over 200 miles of Persian Gulf where the USAF flies criss-cross patterns and every USN boat has radar.
Did our radar and visuals fail to detect those drones? Trouble. Did those drones come from other than Iraq? More trouble.
We need irrefutable proof of origin of the drones.
NONE of the parties involved are trustworthy.
10
" Deference" is a very polite way to put it. Boot licking obedience to his primary lending bank is more accurate.
12
The Saudis have more money than God. Despite handholding and lifelong family ties between the Bush family and the Saudis, the fact remains that nearly all the 9/11 attackers were Saudis which inexplicably led the US to invade Iraq. I have an idea: why not let the Saudis defend themselves? That goes double for the rest of the middle east.
14
President Clinton is waiting on the Saudi government to tell us under what terms we should proceed...and the Republican response would be? Precisely!
8
Whatever the Saudis or indeed the Israelis want from the US and its “fearsome military”, the brutal fact of the matter is that there is no response to asymmetric warfare, and especially in Iran’s back yard. Without direct attacks either upon US installations in the Gulf, or within Israel itself, Iran and its allies and assets have shown repeatedly and definitively that there are huge costs to bear by those countries seeking to either severely limit or degrade Iranian national and regional security issues. The US, since its blatantly illegal invasion of Iraq, has inserted itself willingly into the Sunni v. Shi’ite dispute, and wrapping its arms around the reactionary KSA and UAE governments is leading the Americans deep into a conflict for which there are no winners, only catastrophic regional wars and global blowback.
3
So Trump waits for directions from Saudi Arabia, after which he'll probably need to double check with Putin. Then he can ask Xi Jinping, and Kim Jung-un if they're okay with it. When all that's cleared, the NRA will weigh in. Netanyahu will then provide strategy, which Trump will need to confirm with Saudi Arabia. It's just another day on the White House merry-go-round.
13
After the Iran hostage crises in 1979, I saw a TV panel of experts on the region discussing their ideas about the reasons for the coup and the rise of Iran's religious extremists. What I heard from these experts was that, for over a century, the Middle East was alternately used by invading forces from the East, then from the West, then the East, and then the West, back and fourth, back and fourth. That the countries of the Middle East, and their people, were repeatedly abused and condescended to by one Imperial force after another. And, as a result, they felt they were never really taken seriously as a sovereign global entity. And this was upsetting to them because, at one point, 1400 years earlier, they were the most advanced cultures on the planet.
It's my understanding that, during the Dark Ages, they were in fact the holders of all the great knowledge that would eventually re-emerge in the Middle Ages. Knowledge that would largely define what is now considered the Western Tradition. i.e. The Greek and Roman traditions and customs that largely define much of Europe and certainly the vast majority of American identity.
So, in our abuse of the countries of the Middle East, we were in fact defiling those who were directly responsible for maintaining the intellectual essence of our culture from the darkness that fell after the fall of the Roman Empire. We were using and abusing those who had preserved and cared for what would eventually become The West, as it's known today.
26
On the other hand Iran is now a repressive theocracy that is actively fomenting instability in the region and has made no secret of their desire to destroy Israel. So there’s that.
3
Part 3
So, where does this leave us? And what does it say about how we should move forward in our relationship to countries like Iran and Iraq today?
What it says, is that the best way to move forward is to recognize that, first and foremost, we need to have and show respect for these people and their culture. We need to acknowledge the absolutely pivotal part they played in the evolution of our own history and culture. We need to stop the usury and condescension. We need to stop belittling these people.
We need to stop making ridiculous demands, and treating these people like children, because they aren't. Their traditions are a heck of a lot older then ours. They possessed, at one point, a greatness we can hardly imagine now.
So what should we do? Well, first off, we need to start treating them in a manner indicative of their place in history and the world. Instead of issuing endless demands, we should offer them our hand in friendship.
We should offer them, what we should have offered them a long time ago. Something that could have prevented a lot of the troubles we have experienced in that region for so long. Something which they not only deserve, but have a right to.
And that is a full and equal seat at the table.
As long as we continue to see the world as a zero-sum game - as Donald Trump does - we will continue to find ourselves in increasingly complex, dangerous, and inextricable conflicts around the globe.
The only way out is to change the paradigm.
5
Part 2
What these experts were saying, was that the Middle East was tired of playing second fiddle to a bunch of people who's cultures wouldn't even exist if it weren't for their protection of it when the lights went out. Where would the West be today without Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, etc, etc, etc? Without logic, reason, aesthetics, epistemology, the scientific method, etc, etc, etc? Because it's a fact that without the Middle East's preservation of the texts and knowledge of these ancient civilizations we would have none of that now. Certainly, not in the forms that we recognize them today.
What happened, these experts contend, was that the religious leaders in Iran at the time, and elsewhere, combined this palpable sense of betrayal with the notion that they could return their respective countries, and their peoples, to a long lost greatness as long as the people returned to the traditions and customs of those times. Thus, the re-embrace of extreme religious orthodoxy took hold.
While this created a mass of problems for the West, the hostage crises being a particularly notable flash-point, the opinion of the experts was essentially this - Because the West had never recognized these countries for their contribution to their own existence, because we had never offered them a place at the table as EQUALS, but, instead, had used, abused, and mistreated them, they got fed up and decided to re-embrace the past, in a particularly militant fashion.
Part 2
What these experts were saying, was that the Middle East was tired of playing second fiddle to a bunch of people who's cultures wouldn't even exist if it weren't for their protection of it when the lights went out. Where would the West be today without Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, etc, etc, etc? Without logic, reason, aesthetics, epistemology, the scientific method, etc, etc, etc? Because it's a fact that without the Middle East's preservation of the texts and knowledge of these ancient civilizations we would have none of that now. Certainly, not in the forms that we recognize them today.
What happened, these experts contend, was that the religious leaders in Iran at the time, and elsewhere, combined this palpable sense of betrayal with the notion that they could return their respective countries, and their peoples, to a long lost greatness as long as the people returned to the traditions and customs of those times. Thus, the re-embrace of extreme religious orthodoxy took hold.
While this created a mass of problems for the West, the hostage crises being a particularly notable flash-point, the opinion of the experts was essentially this - Because the West had never recognized these countries for their contribution to their own existence, because we had never offered them a place at the table as EQUALS, but, instead, had used, abused, and mistreated them, they got fed up and decided to re-embrace the past, in a particularly militant fashion.
2
the president doesn’t seem to be aware of how submissive it makes him look to say that
we are...waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!”
“Obviously, it’s difficult to know for sure what’s going through the president’s mind,”
he said, then the Saudis would play a part themselves — if nothing else, by financing it.
Which, of course, made it sound as if the United States was willing to be, in effect, a mercenary force for the Saudis.
And people are concerned about Biden's mental acuity?
Unlike Trump, what Biden does not lack is knowledge of the region. Some experts in the area believe that when MBS initiated the blockade of Qatar, Trump wasn't even aware of the huge US base there and that Qatar was paying for it.
6
It is a moment like this that truly amplifies the challenge of a President who has lied so frequently and is so blatantly self serving that anything he shares will be questioned by foreign leaders, Congress and the public. His word means nothing. He has become a global cartoon tragedy in charge of the largest military in the world.
9
I hate President Trump as much as almost anyone in the United States, and he is probably responsible for the dreadful weather we have had this summer all over the world, but he is not responsible for our crazy relationship with the Saudis.
We began with them in 1933 when FDR recognized their country and opened diplomatic relations with them. Our modern relationship began in 1945 and since then if we sneeze they give us a box of tissues. We have done for them and they have done for us, despite the obvious disparity in a relationship between an ultra religious Muslim nation and an ultra diversified Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Daoist, Hindu, etc., civil nation. Every presidents since FDR has been close to the Saudi's with the exception of President Obama who had some problems with them; Donald Trump is just following the American line of behavior from long before he was in the imagination of his mother and father.
Lets see what happens.
"[The Saudis will] be very much involved. And that includes payment." What's the rate for the lives of US soldiers these days? Is there a volume discount?
9
Are we a fiefdom of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Trump appears to be considering the best interests of the kingdom rather than the best interest of our country and military personnel. The evidence seems to be anything but conclusive, however the public is always the last to know what the extent of that evidence is. We should not be willing to go to war for a murderous, misogynistic dictatorship. We’ve been suckered into two wars over flimsy evidence and for the benefit of the Saudi’s already. Why should we consider this our battle? Why should American lives and treasure hang in the balance? The Saudi’s are purportedly filthy rich, let them fight there own battles. Mr MAGA is again contradicting himself. How is this putting America first? No blood for Oil should be spilled for this cause!
10
You want him to be a good ally and then when he consults with the ally you deem him a toady. You folks really have perfected the art of hypocrisy.
I am from NYC and was three blocks away when the towers fell on 9/11.
15 of the 19 terrorists who planned and carried out the attacks were citizens of Saudi Arabia.
And now, Trump waits for SA direction as to what the Us military will do.
To Trump: Listen, we do not care if they make "payment" to us for an attach on Iran. The US military should not be for sale!
Disgusting.
10
@David Don't you find it odd that nothing happened to Saudi Arabia after 9/11? It's almost as if our establishment was not surprised by the turn of events. But any suggestion that it was a false flag attack is shut down and you are called a conspiracy theorist.
5
Remember? He told Obama that the Saudis should fight their own wars. He misspoke?
7
....with this president, it's all about the money!! He has no moral compass. Lest we forget that all involved in the 9/11 attack were Saudis except for one, let's put the brakes on regarding retaliation. One would think that we would, at a minimum, have buy-in from our allies. We don't need or want another war. Also, the bully-in-chief's modus operandi is to do just that: bully until they "want to make a deal"!
5
The Saudi's brought the 9/11 attack on the U.S. Now we take marching orders from them on whom to attack in the Middle East? This can only get worse.
5
The Saudis are weak and corrupt but not positively evil. Tehran IS evil and has a plan to drive the West out of the Middle East. This is the long game, perhaps with oil losing its primacy it would not matter who the boss is over there but we are not there yet. Obama's weakness emboldened the West's enemies and we are now paying the price.
If we are going to war in the Middle East over an attack by a terrorist country against another sovereign nation then we should declare war against Saudi Arabia for sponsoring the 9/11 attacks
4
Every single day I grow more and more embarrassed by this administration. Vote this ego driven narcissist out of the WH!
5
Unlike Bush, Trump needs a permission slip.
1
trump seems to have divided loyalties. Is trump beholden to mbs, putin or kim jong-un?
4
Trump is unfit for office in every possible way- mentally, intellectually, emotionally and ethically.
He must be removed from office before he blunders into an insane war.
He scrapes and bows to the Saudi prince because he has money. Money is Trump’s god.
He will do anything for money- including sending other people’s kids to war.
9
The Saudis want the U.S. to fight a war with Iran for them.
Unless we can see the proof otherwise, I suspect this is what Trump promised them for Saudi funding to prop up his sinking Trump Organization.
I am beyond livid.
6
I don't even know what to say about the man sitting in the White House anymore. He is dragging our country's reputation and influence lower each day. He refuses to study or listen to advice on any matter. He is clearly enamored of the Saudi's money, while caring nothing about their murderous behavior. He makes pronouncements and then changes his mind, and any position he takes never seem based in factual evidence nor on what is good for this country. He has proved over and over that he is untrustworthy. Meanwhile, the country moves lower and lower and...
9
Who else may have perpetrated this attack? Unfortunately we cannot trust any information coming from this administration. So who stands to gain from an attack on SA? At this time immediately before Israeli elections and heading into a US election year. Hawks such as Bibi benefit. trump benefits. Without Bolton rattling his saber in trump's ear those who benefit the most may have orchestrated behind the scenes for this attack.
1
Secret meetings with Putin.
Deference to King Salman of Saudi Arabia, the same who is involved in the killing of an American journalist and the country involved in a way or another in the 9/11 terrorist attack causing 3,000 American casualties.
Trump has NO respect for this country.
Russia and Saudi Arabia own this country and it's not an exaggeration.
So, what's next?
7
I wonder how much money the Saudis promised to pay Trump. Seems pretty obvious, no? If he wasn't a real billionaire before, he sure as shucks will be after services rendered.
3
In Trump’s own words “The Saudi’s pay cash” to him. Translation - Trump accepts bribes. He admitted it, it’s that simple.
7
It is now clear from intelligence reports (satellite et al) that Iran put cruise missiles down on Abqaiq.
From all his tweets and news comments, it is also clear that Trump has no idea what he is going to do about it.
Our current, profoundly ignorant, US president does not have the clarity of thought nor the discipline to work with our military and our congress to deal with this crisis in a unified fashion. So expect any US reply that he makes to be a wild, spare of the moment exercise. This US president is gravely unprepared for this crises that he, Bolton, Pompeo and Netanyahu have manufactured.
5
The US should not even be thinking of getting involved in this. Saudi Arabia can protect itself & if not ask NATO for help. The US should not be at the beck & call of the people who assisted in the 9/11 attacks or the killing of a journalist or the killing with US weapons of thousands of Yemeni citizens & children. Saudi Arabia & Israel are using the US to do their attacking of their enemies so they don't have the stigma of attacking Iran.
Once again the US is becoming a puppet for the autocrats & dictators of the world. Next will come with trump offering a defense treaty with North Korea & Duerte of the Phillipines.
34
One thing over the past three years is undeniable. The American system of checks and balances, of accountability, of access to information, has failed. Most plainly, you all have no idea how vested the Trumps and Kushners are in Saudi Arabia. You are all, like Trump, flying blind, without any idea what is happening or going to happen. Congress has thrown up its hands, and retreated; even the FBI, the intelligence communities, each department of administration like Commerce, Transportation, Justice, Immigration, the Treasury, are all complicit. You are doomed, and therefore, doom us all.
34
Have we really cleared the Saudis from all complicity in the 9/11 attacks? Is trump satisfied with the Saudi claims of no involvement with the gruesome murder of a U.S. journalist. Will trump once again believe Saudi intelligence regarding the recent destruction of Saudi oil wells?...........Will trump. once again, keep the American people in suspense with a "We'll see." what the Saudi's find.........Our foreign policy is based on the stroking of trumps ego and bluster.
3
Would someone explain the difference between the U.S. Selling weapons to Saudi Arabia to bomb Yemen and Iran selling/giving weapons to Yemen to bomb Saudi Arabia. Please.
4
Use of "the Kingdom" shows deference carte blanche.
4
What did we think would happen when Congress passed laws limiting Saudi weapons sales that Trump vetoed?
We are sending mixed signals across the middle east, with something other than American national security and economic interests as the driving force.
Who knows what Donald wants? And he doesn't take advice.
3
What business deals do the Trump family have going with the Saudis? I'll bet they have a lot. Trump talks like the country is making a lot of money there, more likely it's his family.
Right now in in Iran, as previously in Iraq under Saddam, people named Bush and Trump can't make any money.
It really is as simple as that.
8
Its not the Saudis' economic interest in the US that makes Trump deferential, it is the Saudis' economic interest in Trump that makes Trump deferential, including of course, their hold on Jared the Dauphin.
8
Our men and women in the armed forces on the whole are incredible people. Our political system requires them to obey the orders of our President, and the apolitical nature of our military system is a gem in our system. The politicians have ordered them into foreign wars, sometimes for good, sometimes for foul purposes, but never for monetary reasons. President Trump's repeated statements that somehow the lives our men and women are up for hire is truly without precedent and is totally immoral. Our people in the military are not mercenaries for the President to buy and sell. Their lives are to precious to be sold to Saudi despots.
9
I can’t understand how supporters of Trump would find his deference to the Saudis as acceptable. Especially members of Congress. I’d like to hear from Lindsey, Kennedy from Louisiana, Jim Jordan, the grim reaper of Kentucky. I’d like to see a reporter continue to ask and not be deterred with some ambiguous answer. The Saudi government, the same ones no are being sued by the families of 9-11, are leading us to war, on behalf of them. Just when you think it can’t get any worse.
7
Trump's deference for autocrats and rich people mirrors the condescension he shows toward the majority of Americans.
7
The kleptocracy keeps on giving. We may not have a monarchy,but we do have an Arabian prince to decide whether we go to war. Who benefits from allowing this murdering thug that power I want to see the complete tax returns including the sources of all income;then we will have a better understanding to whom our president is beholding.
31
Another reason to get off the fossil fuels
18
@Dunning Kruger We are already free of any dependency on Saudi fuels. However, if oil supply down ,anywhere, then the overall price of oil increases since it is a world market.
1
@Dunning Kruger
Think Tesla stock just became a better investment.
@RichardHead Yes, the US is, but not Europe or China, That's where the global relevancy of this hits, Trump's USA first with no understanding of the total complex relationship makes us the patsy for all the woes that will be born overseas stemming from that good ol' petroleum flow and industry
So here we are in bed with Saudi Arabia, a not so nice marriage, Please remember the 70's and how they stuck it to us,
2
Loved the quote by Robert Gates.
“To the last American.”
And don’t forget that it was the Saudis who attacked us on 9-11
27
Trump suggests U.S. soldiers could shoot illegal migrants at the border, including women and children, but at the possibility of a real military conflict with an adversary that could fight back ,his bone spurs start throbbing and his knees go wobbly.
23
Trump was a big part of the Saudi attack when he unilaterally cancelled the Iran Treaty over objections of his own experts and allies.
His arrogance and ignorance are coming back to haunt him.
Let Saudi's handle their own battles since we sell them billions in warfare gear. This "closeness" to MBA is telling.
36
"And that includes payment." So Saudi royalty can just pay us off to have American soldiers die for them in Iran? Totally despicable that an American president would auction off American lives.
50
@Fester: Probably includes private payments to Trump and family, too.
6
@Fester. To Donald Trump, EVERYTHING is transactional. That includes American autonomy and lives.
5
Notice how "strategy" and "Trump" are never in the same sentence when it comes to foreign policy...but "money" and "Trump" seems to always hang about.
34
"Obviously, it’s difficult to know for sure what’s going through the president’s mind," declared John P. Hannah. It's not difficult at all. Nothing but reflexive, mendacious bile tumble-dries inside the president's skull. There is no "mind" there.
32
@John LeBaron
Just picture a "Magic Eight Ball" with various words and phrases floating up to the top every time you shake it.
2
The Saudis are responsible for much of the terrorism in this world, they either directly support it or pay off terrorists to leave them alone.
The Saudis are the reason 911 happened.
We have a fool full of avarice in the White House doing their bidding, and a political party that has no problem with this as long as they can dictate what women do with their bodies and/or get paid.
The founding fathers are all spinning in their graves.
29
"Saudi violations of human rights" but also the Saudi support for the religious fanatics and murders who attacked this country killing 3000 people September 11, 2001 are good reasons to brand this regime as a pariah. But Trump likes the gold and glitz and rich men with their harems.
25
Perhaps the Saudis blew up their own refinery to help Trump in a coming election year.
They were able to murder a American journalist in their embassy without repercussions, because they were purchasing billions in arms from the USA.
Why is this not plausible ?
22
@Fausto Alarcón
Good idea...no one else is suggesting this but it could be a theory worth pursuing.
1
I wonder if Trump will be a good little president and retaliate if told to do so by Saudi Arabia?
Did the Saudi’s join NATO when we were all sleeping? Why the heck should we go to war for them. I guess they are too rich to fight their own wars. They can just pay Trump to send our sons to Iran to fight and die.
The whole Trump re-election economic boom fizzled. Now it looks like he is going to GOP plan B start a middle Eastern war. It worked the reelect our famous war time president George W Bush.
Putin is winning!
23
This is not our war. Oil is deadly and toxic to our environment so i don’t care if all the oil fields are destroyed. We need to go back to solar ,wind and i see hydrogen now is available which will be a cleaner fuel. Trumps supporters should pay 5.00 a gallon for his whole Presidency since he caused this with Iran. Personally i think the GOP paid someone to blow those refineries up just to get us in another fake war. Investigate please.
10
So our President is now taking orders from MbS as well as Putin, Kim, and Netanyahu? How does he keep it all straight? Oops, my bad: he remembers only the last thing anyone said to him, so no challenge in that.
19
Another day, another situation in which we find our alleged "commander in chief" completely in over his head and totally incompetent to deal with the demands of global leadership.
And it's not even 8 a.m. yet. Lord help us.
20
Erik Prince, Blackwater, Halliburton... these were just the most obvious indications of where we’ve been headed as a nation since at least the first Gulf War: locked, loaded, and for sale to the worst nations in the world, including the one that attacked us on 9/11. Forget all that stuff about democracy and the city on the hill; we’ve got death squads for hire, prices (and values and human rights and all else) negotiable.
17
Did his deference to Saudis ever go away?! How can something return if it’s always there? They own him. They say jump, Trump says how high?
14
Another day that “will live in infamy.” The attack on Saudi oil installations? No- Trump’s comments about the attack.
13
Trump is known to admire and perhaps envy absolute rulers. To defer to the Saudi regime, which at this moment is enacting a spike in crucifixions and other public obscenities rightly causes shame and anger among Americans and contempt from other nations.
14
If Trump said he would not respond to the attack on Saudi oil fields, he would be condemned for not supporting an ally. If Trump shows support, he is condemned for being a puppet. How in the world can this guy win will all the hypocritical responses thrown his way? I ask, if it were Obama, would the media make the same claims given the same circumstances? Answer honestly and you may be surprised...
2
@G G: Since when is Saudi Arabia an ally? Last time I looked they were not a NATO member!
2
@G G
Why do we continue to go back and ask what would Obama do or say? Can we stay current and hold whomever is holding that office accountable period? Exactly what is gained by looking back . It seems is much easier to point to yesterday than to deal with today. Comparing the two is cowardly, although seeing that we keep doing it, how many times was Obama held accountable for Bush...
2
@G G
But then he promised to wait for Saudi Arabia to tell him “under what terms we would proceed.”
This is not just pledging support for Saudi Arabia but giving them the authority over the terms of our support. If Obama had done that you would be apoplectic.
3
Money talks.
And when money talks, Trump doesn't walk, he grovels and crawls toward the money. Can't risk any of those lucrative hotel and real estate deals of son-in-law Jarrod, which the Saudis are propping up...
19
"[We] are waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!”
Can you imagine the reaction if Obama had written that? The fury from the Rs (IMO rightful, just this once) would have been off the scale.
15
The nice thing about Trump is that he makes all the open secrets plain as day.
Saudi Arabia and Israel have been dictating US policy in the region forever, and we are, somehow, the junior partner in the relationship.
The total lack of consequences for KSA for 9-11 and plenty of other Wahabbist inspire attacks on the US and US interests makes that quite clear with regards to Saudi.
And the curious silence of most of the media about Israel planting espionage devices in DC over the past two years, along with our shoveling cash at them no matter what they do, makes our subordinate relationship with Israel clear as well.
So thanks Don, for being dumb enough to pull back the curtain.
Unfortunately, as usual, any positive service you provide is usually due to ineptitude or ignorance.
18
@Objectively Subjective Rep Omar was right
Trump's personal and business tax returns would shed light on many policy matters. Is there no one as patriotic as Edward Snowden who is in a position to act?
9
It is frightening to think that this incompetent is Commander-In-Chief at a time of international conflict. May our better angels guide us.
14
Gee... I guess this is why we don't want a president doing business with other counties while he's in office. The best way for other countries to deal with our America now is let the Trump Organization open a golf course on their property. It's a win win.
14
Once again!!! No matter who attacked the Saudi oil installations the United States should not and can not be the world's police force. This is a job for the United Nations, no matter how inadequate that organization may be.
10
Sure we can trust Saudi Arabia to tell us "under what terms we would proceed" with acts of war. That's the government that told us Khasshogi had left their embassy in good health. Actually they had sent an assassination team (members of the Crown Prince's bodyguard) with a professional torturer to ambush him in the embassy and had dismembered him while he was still alive.
14
Isn't it interesting how quiet things were with Iran when President Obama was President and had made a deal. In comes Trump, he tears up an international agreement, starts his fawning behavior with the Saudis and Netanyahu and the next thing you know we're about to go to war. This isn't what Trump promised. He promised to negotiate a better deal. He promised to get us out of wars in the Mideast. Instead, the opposite has happened. The Mideast is spinning out of control. Our President is becoming subservient to Saudi Arabia and Israel and the world is on the brink of another war. Oh, and the 25% tariffs kick in in December. Look for the price hikes in WalMart. Our farmers are still without markets. Guess we'll need another round of socialist subsidies. This is what incompetence looks like. Meanwhile, enjoy the contaminated drinking water America. Mr. Trump is in charge and your sons and daughters in the military can stay in his Scotland hotel.
24
This is what we have been reduced to. A U.S. president saying out loud that we are waiting for a foreign dictatorship for instructions on how to proceed to war. I guess one could applaud Trump for stating out loud how we don't have control of our armed forces like the army for hire tactics of the Hessians of the 17th and 18th century but how humbling is that . This is disgusting.
65
The president says he's "locked and loaded" but it's Jared Kushner who will decide if Iran is to be punished. Remember, Kushner has very high stakes in the Saudi economy. He has the final word.
7
Gee, he is sort of doing what we might want him to so - we should be "locked and loaded" to respond to anything, then instead of rushing into anything, he is being patient, instead of going alone, he is waiting on Saudi and maybe other input, he is appearing reluctant to dive into an armed conflict - that sort of sounds like how we would want a President to act. But, that is not how we choose to look at President Trump. His actions look more consistent than his words - actions should be what counts. Criticism for deferring to the Saudis - didn't President Obama go over and bow to their leaders ?
@Jim Baugh: What is wrong with you? There is sooo much wrong with what you had to say, which has been commented on multiple times! I'll just deal with the last statement. President Obama showed the required respect to the king, just as he (and trump) did to the Queen of England!
1
One thing Trump does not lack is ambition. Impeachable offenses are not enough, it seems, I guess he is shooting for war crimes and actual treason (think of the oath of office).
I love my car, but the ONLY battle we should be fighting is the one against our dependence on fossil fuels.
If we had the courage to make this a priority, I am sure it is achievable and ultimately, likely to create a better, more equitable society. Instead, thousands of idle words stating the obvious, illuminating millions of faces, powered by the very thing we need to escape.
There is little reality in this show.
8
The war between Sunni and Shia has been going on for 1300 years. It is a conflict in which the U.S. has no National Security interest and one in which there will be no resolution. It is none of our business and the farther we stay away the better.
8
@W.A. Spitzer
It is about the world economy....middle east oil is needed to keep the economic engines going...otherwise no one would care.
1
War is Trump's sleeve card. When his political position becomes dire enough that even he sees election defeat coming, it will suddenly appear, and be played without hesitation. Has there ever been a president that lost his re-election bid during a hot war?
4
Drone warfare is leveling the playing field. The American airbase in Qatar is not only within striking distance of Iranian missile batteries, but of drone attack. War against Iran will set off a regional conflagration that will affect every country in the middle east ( including Israel) the likes of which have not been seen since WWII. And it will send the world economy into a recession that will make 2008-2010 look like a picnic at the beach. Trump’s inability and unwillingness to understand diplomacy and geopolitics could lead the world one step closer to its destruction given all the other major problems we face ( which we also mostly ignore).
6
"It was hard to imagine him allowing NATO, or a European ally, such latitude to determine how the United States should respond. But for Mr. Trump, the Saudis have always been a special case, their economic import having often overwhelmed other considerations in his mind."
Next thing to happen will be Trump claiming it was Iranians who were responsible for 9/11.
10
The Saudis have dragged the United States into three wars:
The 1991 Gulf War (fought to stop the Iraqis from getting Kuwaiti oil reserves and threatening the kingdom itself).
The second Iraq War (where, again, control of oil reserves was the cause).
The Afghan War after its initial stage when, in December 2001, the George W. Bush administration gave up on its purported purpose of getting Bin Ladin and plunged U.S. forces into an endless and pointless conflict against the Taliban).
Now the Saudis are pushing for a fourth, far more potentially destructive U.S. war against Iran, apparently based on little if any evidence that Iran actually launched the drones against oil targets. This is so reminiscent of the non-existent "weapons of mass that justified the launching of the disastrous Second Iraq War.
We are the Saudis' servants (probably too polite a term), not their allies.
8
Maybe a naive thought: but I wonder how it can be that an attack on Iran seems like just Trumps moody decision? Aren’t there any checks and balances in the US left? Is entering or starting a war not a decision wich should need approval in Congress and or Senate? And what about the US as member of the NATO? Aren’t there also certain rules?
I am German and just considering that Angela Merkel would act without approval by the Parlament is unthinkable.
7
Do we really have to keep reading analyses of this president's foreign policy strategy? Even conservative "think" tanks are forced to spin his remarks because obviously no one knows what he really means. Why try to understand it anyway since it will change tomorrow, and he'll lie about it ("we will meet with Iran with no preconditions", ad nauseum)?
We have a president who doesn't read or learn or understand history, world affairs, or governance; listens to the last person he talked to; prefers optics over substance; favors murderous dictators; and sees himself as more competent than all the experts (still) around him. It's a mystery why his supporters aren't as scared as the rest of us.
9
Obviously we should not start a war, but what is interesting is the number of people advocating Saudi Arabia attack Iran. At one time we at least considered or pretended to use American power to reduce conflict around the world, and now we are encouraging it. Any action Saudi Arabia takes, the United States is complicit, due to our military defense contracts. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer.
3
@Eric Not sure those folks are actually advocating for a Saudi attack, rather they're asking why should it be us?
The chances of the Saudis attacking Iran without us are right about absolute zero.
1
Any previous president who acted like this one with the SAs, Russians, N Koreans, etc would be accused of being an agent of theirs.
This one, I believe, relates to the power of dictators and is laying the groundwork for his post presidential era of money making.
In any case, the U.S. best interest is never his goal.
4
Venezuela and Iran are prevented from selling their oil by the USA or there would be no shortage of oil. These sanctions hurt the citizens of both countries and allow the Saudis to control oil prices.
8
I wonder why no Republican or Democrat states the obvious that less oil from Saudi Arabia protects jobs in US oil industry.
So, defending Saudi Arabian oil means attacking US oil jobs.
Looks like that in case of his arch-friends the Saudis Trump makes an exception from his „American people and American jobs first“ - or has it eventually never been about that?
3
Fortunately oil production in the U.S. has increased under Trump. If eco-extremist Warren or Sanders were in charge, we would have shut down production by now of all fossil fuels. Anyone remember the Jimmy Carter foolish rationing scheme? I used to wait on gasoline lines for hours.
Thank You Mr. President.
@Jerry Actually, U.S. oil production increased under President Obama. Trump just continued the same policy.
But unfortunately, under Trump, our reliance on oil is increasing, putting us in harms way. Instead of increasing production, we should be reducing our reliance on oil. But that's not happening.
3
@Jerry
Jerry - you are a little confused. Oil production DID increase under Obama but he had nothing to do with it. All of the increase was on private land and mostly due to hydro-fracking which Obama opposed.
How are we the people or the congressional oversight bodies expected to keep up with the daily onslaught from this guy? We'd be lucky to impeach him in time. My heart goes out to the next president. Obama will have had it easy.
5
'Locks and loaded' Trump's usual bombastic rhetoric,with no intention to act...
1-Saudi Arabia (SA)bombs and destroys Yemenis indiscriminately, to avenge Iran.
2-He uses the advanced weapons systems at its disposal, provided by the US
3-SA still eager to pull the US into the maelstrom it has created, for us to do its dirty job.
4-US has never learned that it has lost EVERY war it has gotten into , outside its territory, since World War II
5-The US has imposed deadly sanctions on Iran, despite the fact that Russia and China have defied these sanctions and arm Iran...
6-Add to this US doing the bidding of Israel to crush Iran, a
When will our Defense Department learn its lesson for not meddling in other countries conflicts?
6
I’m so glad I just got an affordable, all-electric car (American-made, by the way). Everyone, if you can, get off fossil fuels to do something about climate change and end these endless wars.
3
Ah, ah da,..fossil fuels are necessary in order to charge the thingy! How is your house heated and cooled , by batteries too?
Deference to the Royal Family? I should hope so! See how this one attack has affected the international markets already? It could get worse fast over there and even the Trump haters will be begging for something to be done, quick , before winter arrives!
1
Donald J. Trump certainly knows who butters his bread. Trouble is that Americans have been fighting, getting maimed, suffering mental illness and dying because American presidents, none of whom have ever experienced real military service, have been sending other people's sons and daughters to die on foreign soil for their own wealth and glory. And American voters and Congressional representatives allow them to do so. Just think of what could have been done to correct domestic problems problems with all the tax dollars spent on military activity in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere around the world. What would our national debt be today if the military budget were limited to defense of American interests and not "presidential" or military-industrial contractor interests?
6
Do we have the technology to see the drone flying over the oil establishment and causing the damage? How do we know it was a drone? How many spy satellites do we have? Is Bolton changlinging into Pompeo?
1
Well, whose side are we on? Saudis trained many terrorists, some who have attacked the US. Iran, under Eisenhower, coupled with the CIA's first coup, Operation Ajax, 1953, where we deposed of democracy and a good leader, Mosaddegh, thereby paving the way for Iran's present theocracy. Who should I believe amidst these tensions?
3
Yesterday I heard a report that the oil companies have known for decades that their products are directly contributing to global warming. Yet they have spent billions in an effort to convince the public otherwise. (The tobacco companies did the same—both knew and denied that their products were deadly.) Yet even as the oil companies have encouraged more consumption and raked in greater profits, they have taken steps to protect their equipment from the negative effects of climate change. What does it take to stop such insane criminality? A good first step would be to end federal subsidies to oil companies. There are far better uses for our tax dollars, beginning with an intensive program to break free of fossil-based fuels. The extractive industries in Saudi Arabia, our own country, and everywhere else on planet Earth need to be permanently shuttered.
11
@Drusilla Hawke I read the other day that when the idea of forecasting the weather first came along, companies that made money salvaging shipwrecks did everything they could (including invoking god's will) to prevent it from being used to make ocean travel safer.
Insane greed has always been with us, at least once money was invented.
3
"...sweeping Saudi violations of human rights and international norms under the rug."
In what universe does the United States have any standing to criticize other countries on human rights and international norms?
8
Trump’s policies are leaving us a legacy of disasters and future wars. Iran tensions rising, nuclear missiles in North Korea, no China deal, Mexico is not paying for the wall, US farmers going bankrupt, Puerto Rico still rebuilding, Auto plants closing, etc..The national policy is a mess!
10
Trump only thinks about money. It’s not about the money and whether the Saudis pay their share. It’s about the lives of young Americans who will have to fight and die to protect Saudi oil.
8
Trump blusters and brays about our sophisticated weapons, our smarter and better trained military and our superior technology yet his response to the attack on the Saudi oil infrastructure magnifies the absence of leadership by the occupant of the Oval Office.
In fact, Trump advertised his weakness to the world when he meekly stated that he (and the most powerful military in the entire universe) would wait until he received marching orders from the millennial generation Saudi monarch, Muhammed bin Salman.
In the 32 months since he ascended to the White House with extraordinary help from his Russian confidantes Trump has eviscerated practically every institution of our government and recklessly undermined our ntelligence agencies. So far, he has gone through 3 National Security Advisors while filling much of his administration with temporary or "acting" department heads, few of whom are up to the job other than pledging their unrequited fealty to their narcissistic boss who must be flattered daily.
The most glaring and under-reported lesson in the dysfunctional response by the low-educated Trump and his more learned, bellicose doppelganger Mike Pompeo, is the vulnerability of defenses against the types of low-flying, computer-guided missile-bearing drones that evaded the most advanced detection devices.
Could the U.S. have "obliterated" North Vietnam in the 1970s? Yes, but asymmetrical warfare tactics wore down the best military in the history of the world. Déja vu?
12
The president wants Saudi to decide what help they need from their American ally so America don’t rush off to a Iraq, Libya, Syria adventure again and people are criticizing him for thinking too much unlike the previous presidents.
3
“Obviously, it’s difficult to know for sure what’s going through the president’s mind,”
And this quote should be in the first paragraph. And one wonders when his party and those around him will stop giving him "the benefit of dobut" and recognize what peril we are in with this mentally incapable individual in this office.
15
Trump’s “convictions” (which he apparently has few to none) on any topic depend more on what makes him or his friends and family more money, and are as consistent as the direction his flatus flies when he let’s one of his “tweets” go.
Leave oil in the ground where it is meant to be and convert to a non-warring energy source.
11
“Obviously, it’s difficult to know for sure what’s going through the president’s mind.” Correction, that should read "It's difficult to know for sure what, if anything, is going through the president's mind." (Could be a breeze with tumbleweeds rolling by. ) This same conservative pundit then says: I guess Mr. Trump “wants the country most affected and threatened by the attack to step up publicly, pin responsibility squarely on Iran and put some real skin into the game by formally requesting that the U.S. and international community come to the defense of Saudi Arabia." Wow, formally asking the US and international community to attack Iran for it. That is really putting "skin into the game" by Saudi Arabia. Couldn't MBS at least contribute a few bone saws to the effort?
9
How many masters -- Putin, Saudi Arabia, International Wallbuilders -- can Trump serve before they decide to replace him with someone competent?
12
I think Trump deference to Saudi and Israel is pretty clear for all to see, but I don't see the evidence for Russia which is under comprehensive sanctions and the subject of daily abuse from the government and press.
It’s not deference... Israel and Saudi are our allies and I can tell you, based on more than 45 years in the intelligence community, that without them we would be blind in the region.
This calls to mind an editorial from the Economist of many years ago: "If luck seeks skill, as batsmen claim, then certainly ill luck joins hands in history with ineptitude."
6
Yes . And ineptitude and malice in government foreign policy go back at least to 2001.
Trump is darned when he does and darned when he doesn’t. No matter what he says or doesn’t say or what he does or doesn’t do, he is criticized and attacked. Unfortunately, this is the new normal today, where tv pundits viciously attack even sitting Supreme Court Justices before they take the time to learn the facts, and then never apologize when the facts show they were wrong. This new approach to “news” is pushing us all into our various tribes (white, black, gay, straight, conservative, progressives, victim, oppressor, etc). And it’s doing so for one reason only—money.
1
@ehillesum What he didn't do: give a hoot about the Saudis murdering a journalist who lived here.
What he did do: put the Saudis in charge of telling us how to respond to this attack on a Saudi installation.
What he previously did: allege that a President actually elected by a majority was completely illegitimate, not even a citizen. without a shred of evidence, after claiming that his "investigators" were finding incredible evidence which somehow was never revealed to the world.
What you didn't do: use the brains the Good Lord gave you.
2
Dear Secretary of Defense Mark Esper,
In light of the president's latest remarks regarding Saudi Arabia, I'm wondering how much the cost is per year to rent the services of the U. S. Military?
I'm thinking it must be a pretty penny.
Sincerely,
A concerned citizen
9
Waiting for the Saudis to see under which terms we proceed tells the whole problem in a few words. With Trump, it's truly the tail wagging the dog. Weak.
9
Never any mention of Saudi itself being involved in its own defense I see. And yet they are very eager to wage war on the most impoverished of states, Yemen.
4
How can anyone doubt Trump's fealty to the oil and gas industry? It is so glaringly obvious that they are his true masters, and it is their interests he serves, not that of the American people
11
When Obama bowed to King Abdullah out of courtesy, the right wing went ballistic with indignation and shame. Here we have Trump the hand maiden to the Saudis on yet another issue where he compromises our national interest. The US is waiting for tribalists to tell it what to do. Some CINC.
16
“The fact is the Saudis are going to have a lot of involvement in this if we decide to do something,” [Trump] said. “They’ll be very much involved. And that includes payment. And they understand that fully.”
For the life of me, I cannot recall the name of the general who led the Saudi forces into Raqqa to defeat ISIS. Oh, that’s right, the deal is American blood for Saudi dollars. Indefensible and morally repugnant for any sitting U.S. president, even this one.
13
The money obsessed deal maker lacks a shred of decency
2
From Trump's comments it apppears that the United States army is waiting for further instructions from House of Saud, through their regent Trump, about how to proceed.
7
Haven’t we already sold tons of military hardware to the Saudis so they could defend themselves?
11
Few believe anything 45 says. I don’t believe he doesn’t want war.
7
@Lost In America Whether or not he wants war depends entirely on his perception of whether or not it will distract from his problems and heighten his chances of being elected in 2020. Oh, and whether he can make money off of it.
2
How would a war benefit his reelection in 2020? A conflict with simply show that he was in capable of managing our strategic alliances and keeping the US out of war.
@David H Remember when Shrub lied us into a war in Iraq? Remember when (suddenly) it was downright treasonous to complain that the war was misbegotten - that not supporting the war was "not supporting the troops"? Now, we may be in a different place now since Trump's reputation as a liar is pretty firmly entrenched. But don't underestimate the ability of the MSM to turn on a dime in order to show that they are supporting a "war president."
1
In game theory, the madman strategy only works if your behavior is truly unpredictable. It’s not enough just to threaten to go postal, your adversary has to *believe* those threats or at least believe there’s a non-zero probability they’ll be realized. Trump has long since squandered whatever advantage his erratic character gave him in this regard. It’s all too obvious that he has no stomach for a real fight. His toughness is as phony as his tan. Like most bullies, he only punches those who can’t punch back.
7
Why on earth would we fight for a backwards government that represses women, minorities, and wouldn’t know democracy if it hit them in the face. American lives shed to protect Saudi oil and fiefdoms? Even invincible Trump can lose in 2020 with that formula.
12
@Rainy Night Because it is the oil and gas industry who pulls Trump's strings.
2
Very true. I hope the democrats are not similarly in awe of the Saudis and unable to treat them as they would any other criminal state.
2
Release your tax returns, President TV Personality, so we can see what those "terms" are.
9
"Locked and loaded" is another "line" in current residents play acting a real president. He has moved from game show host to actor, probably to be more like Reagan (another actor). The Congress cannot let this fool run anything much less a war. He is just not very bright or with current thinking.
7
Trump's repeatedly makes big threats to use America's mighty military against bad actors like Syria, North Korea, Iran but then backs down every time with a weak (and futile) offer to "make a deal" instead. Trump is a bloviating bully who runs and hides when challenged. He alienates important allies, praises and cozies up to violent dictators and backs down like a scared kid when the hard decisions have to be made.
Under Trump's incoherent foreign policy, America has never looked weaker. Foreign adversaries know this and are taking advantage. No one wants war, but it may happen through a confluence of events under a very weak president.
7
Deference ? He's their Employee, and " works " for well hidden fees and commissions.
Seriously.
68
I would love to see this kind of critical assessment of the US' relationship with Israel, the other Middle East power that wants the US to go to war with Iran, has a bizarre and harmful level of influence in Washington (including in the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy, which was created specifically to foment war against Iran, motivated by Israeli concerns). At least with the Saudis, the interest is clear (i.e, oil) and the criticism is honest and substantial. Israel is only a liability for the US and its supporters' efforts to immunize the US-Israel relationship from criticism has been remarkably successful.
26
The last thing that the state of Israel wants is for the US to go to war with Iran. Were the US to engage Iran militarily, Israel would come under direct attack, and its population centers would almost certainly be overwhelmed by Iranian missiles. Israel would probably have little option other than to respond directly to the missile attacks, and the war would certainly broaden and escalate. The last thing Israel wants is a war of attrition with a power that has 10 times its own population. Respectfully, comments like yours may attract a lot of support here on the New York Times comment board, but they are not based in reality.
1
Strange that this drone attack involved no loss of life and no defense. TheSaudis should actually be pleased, as this brought the price of oil up. One could ask, ‘qui bono’? It seems that the winners in this situation is S. A. Recall too, that the long-standing minister was recently fired, and that MBS is eagerly looking for more/different investments...
26
If Trump had any wisdom and integrity, he would be working toward peace in the Middle East instead of continuing a war that has dragged on for nearly 20 years and cost trillions of dollars and thousands of human lives. But, as we all know, he has neither wisdom nor integrity and is most probably beholden to the Saudis financially. When a president puts his personal wealth before the good of the country he governs, nothing good can come of it.
29
The Trump presidency is sounding more and more like it originated from some sort of bizarre collaboration between Charles Dickens, John le Carré, and Monty Python.
43
I wonder who the Trumps get more money from, the Russians or Saudis. And how can the first family's ties with two of the world's worst actors not adversely affect Trump's decision making? I believe this is why Trump will fight providing access to his tax returns until the end.
54
@Barbara
The worlds worst actor is the Trump administration.
They provoke and impose sanctions destroying nations economies including friendly nations, threaten with military power including nuclear threats against non-nuclear nations. The US uses regime change against any government left of center, elected governments included. The US installs brutal right-wing dictators and supports every brutal right-wing dictatorship.
The US creates enemies by simply demonizing other governments in order to get its way.
2
@Barbara, I don’t think Trump gets money from the Russians. They probably blackmail him & quite successfully.
2
Unlike Israel and Saudi, Russia is under punitive sanctions and a continual litany of abuse from US under Trump as before with others. I don't see the reason nd suspect it is a policy of government and allies in the press.
This can be the best thing to happen for the USA. To have the sponsor of Sunni extremism- Saudi Arabia get into a direct conflict with leadership of Shia extremists- Iran. Trump is fanning the flames. The USA will likely not be directly involved but will supply weapons, intelligence and support to even the battlefield for the weaker Saudi Arabia forces as they destroy each other. Saudi royal family will need the US so much, they will finally cut their ties to the Wahabis and other extremists.
3
@Qcell more likely Trump will just bumble along clueless!
4
We sell all the military hardware that the Saudis need, and we train them in the proper use of that hardware. They have been fighting in Yemen for a while now, so they have the combat experience needed. They do not need us, we do not need to get involved in another war that can not be won. Haven’t we had enough? Haven’t we learned our lessons already? Haven’t we learned trying to tame or change the Middle East is an impossible task? I don’t know about everyone else, but I’ve had enough of the death, displacement, and destruction. Let Saudi Arabia deal with their own problems.
30
@Canewielder
Hate to break it to you, but "taming" and "changing" the Middle East is such an outdated, colonial viewpoint that it hardly bares mentioning, but for its flagrant racism.
But let me just remind you that the current situation over there was created in its totality by the allies after World War I. That's right: Britain, France and the United States divvied and carved up the Middle East with no thought whatsoever to the long-term consequences of their actions at the time. They treated the countries in the region the same way the United States regarded Indian tribes - non-humans to be marginalized and grouped together and moved on to plots of land without regard to religious, cultural and political considerations on the ground. Whatever one thinks of the Middle East, it has to come with at least an acknowledgement that the entire region has been basically operating under occupation since the failed Treaty of Versailles in 1919, which not only facilitated WWII with Germany and Japan, but also left a long, bloody legacy in the Middle East.
So the idea that Saudi Arabia should "deal with their own problems" completely ignores the responsibility of the Western powers that created this mess.
4
@Canewielder
I like your comment in a lot of ways, but you obviously know nothing about the SA military's capabilities. They are incompetent and rely on mercenaries like us to keep their military going. They can barely field an air force and their ground force is a joke.
1
Good comment, one of the few here that are actually intelligent and insightful. For that, you will be rewarded with very few recommendations.
Oil the deadly toxic fossil fuel and coal are destroying our climate with green house gasses. We need to go back to wind power, solar and any other clean way to use energy. We must not send our soldiers in fighting for this deadly toxin. People will need to get use to healthier energy sources if we are to survive.
33
@D.j.j.k.Believe you meant to write past tense "used to!Served as subcontractor in Jiddah in early 1970's with Raytheon which had just sold Mamlaka HAWK missiles and thoroughly ENJOYED the experience, although my heart went out to the Yemenis,"un peuple gentil"who accomplished the menial work that the Saudis would not deign to do. Many casualties in present conflict are YEMINIS. War has been ongoing for generations, and even when I was there I had in my classes veterans of the war with Yemen.Mamlaka is a reliable purchaser of our military hardware and will continue to be, regardless of the political party in power. O and his then secretary of state, HRC, approved 24 billion dollars worth of armaments from us, so the statu quo ante is unlikely to change.Your assumptions are amazing!Do you really envisage an end to fossil fuels? Will Al Gore give up his fleet of s.u.v's or Nancy Pelosi give up her private commercial flights back home to S.F. sometimes weekly to set the right example?
'/
1
President Trump has the correct strategy. We should respond in partnership with our allies. If he responded unilaterally, he would be criticized for marginalizing our allies. For many people in the media, President Trump can do nothing right.
5
@Padraig Lewis
"We should respond in partnership with our allies. If he responded unilaterally, he would be criticized for marginalizing our allies."
Why respond at all? 1. There was no attack against the US. 2. US has no treaty for mutual assistance with Saudi Arabia. 3. The US produces more than enough oil and doesn't even need Middle Eastern oil.
Why respond?!
5
@Padraig Lewis
Trump does not do things based on right or wrong. He does everything based on what makes him look good.
Trump does not have strategy. He bounces back and forth, changes his mind and has lost more staff than anyone can keep track of.
We are still waiting for Trump to do something right. And waiting...and waiting....
7
Saudi Arabia is not our ally.
4
Yes, Trump is far too deferential to the Saudis, but I believe his tempered response is a matter of self-preservation. An oil crisis would almost certainly lead to a recession, and cost him his reelection, and so would a major war in he Gulf after he promised to withdraw US forces from Mideastern quagmires.
Iran has called Trump's bluff. From now on, we can only hope that cooler heads will prevail.
9
Trump's gambit is to apply enough economic pressure on Iran to have it negotiate away the entirety of its nuclear development program, domestic and military alike. Iran is no more likely to do this than Kim Jong Un because, like him, the Iranian leadership is dependent on their nuclear program as a political device.
This is the heart of Trump's miscalculation with both Iran and North Korea. He is wagering that economic sanctions will outweigh nuclear capability and bring them back to the nuclear negotiating table, in two countries that have demonstrated exactly the opposite for decades. In what scenario would this suddenly change? There is no level of economic sanctions sufficient to effect this change. In this scenario, both countries calculate that aggressive military action is preferable to negotiating away their nuclear/political capital. In other words, long before economic sanctions have their intended effect, both countries will move to militaristic action.
What we are seeing, then, is the natural, political result of these sanctions, namely North Korea continuing to defiantly test its weapons, and now Iran using proxies (or perhaps not) to attack western oil interests. This miscalculation by Trump has put us in a position where we have an untenable choice: start another Middle East war, or negotiate an end to these attacks... by doing what? By easing sanctions. That is our only leverage.
Trump has succeeded in moving the nuclear issue completely off the table.
13
Lowcost drones that come in under radar and carry the punch of high price missiles. This is a new weapon that allows the guerrillas to attack the home base of their enemy -- like WW2 buzz bombs but with precision GPS guidance. Couldn't the same weapons be used against US bases? Does our military have an effective counter measure?
6
The best countermeasure for US against asymmetric attacks overseas is not to be there causing strife.
1
The Saudis have ample wealth to fight their own battles. This is not some small struggling democracy fighting off totalitarian invaders. It is a totalitarian kingdom with a multitude of human rights abuses. The idea that our young men and women should fight to defend the Saudis, that our tax dollars should be spent defending the Saudis, is deeply offensive. Our money would be better spent working to end this country's dependence on fossil fuels.
29
Could it have been a failure of American detection systems that lead to the seemingly stealth bombing? After all we outfit and train the Saudi military. Is that why the present administration wants to defend them? To avoid the public embarrassment due to the failure of our equipment?
4
Don't we need a president who will make his own decisions taking into account the intelligence briefings? Trump never reads these briefings and relies on what the Saudis tell him. Is there a problem here? Trump responds to the Russians and the Saudis like they are the authorities on his decisions. Is the US supposed to act like a sovereign country or not? Going to the Saudis or the Russians for a decision is like going to a demolition company for a headache.
16
Don't we sell millions in weapons to these guys? Why do we also have to fight their conflicts? Why do they buy weapons then? So many questions.
12
@Raul
We sell them billions and they use them to kill Yemenis by the thousands. Where have you been? And the answer to all your questions is one word. " Money."
4
I know we hate Trump and everything he does, but this strikes me as a reasonable response to an attack on another country. The US should more often defer like this in international conflicts - offering support if the country itself asks for it and providing only what is asked for. Though.. I'm not sure that should be relayed to these countries by Twitter, mind you....
6
@Carrie.....You need to explain why we should support the Saudis under any circumstances. They are the founders of al Qaeda and ISIS and supporters of the Taliban, never mind the murder of journalist Kashoggi who was living and working in the U.S. at the time. A better question is why we would even consider selling them military weapons?
6
@Carrie
Do you remember Trump's knee jerk response? The guy is a menace. Luckily we can really do nothing about what happened. Our military, as incompetent as it is, is still smart enough to know we really can do nothing significant to Iran and if we did strike, our forces throughout the ME become easily accessible targets.
1
@Carrie The Saudis attacked us on 9/11 and Bush lied about it. Why are they suddenly our friends?
2
DJT appears to think if he can just " sit down and talk it out with autocratic dictators and other world terrorists, he can make that big deal that will bring home the Nobel. So far...nada.
They all seem to have DJT's number; fawn over his inflated ego and proceed as is making gestures that make him believe he's making progress.
But this is a very WEAK man, a bully who threatens and then pulls back, threatens and pulls back. Saudi Arabia is using him again for their own purposes. Our Congress should not allow this man to use his belligerent threats to lead us into a skirmish which leads to something much bigger in the Middle East.
Perhaps the Allies can institute a new prize that rewards a leader from the alliance working within their own country in a bipartisan manner to further democracy. That may focus DJT on something achievable and keep him from meddling in world affairs. So what if it expire when he leaves office.
We do need new infrastructure, a good health plan, a humane immigration policy, a huge climate policy and jobs for the future. And he can " sit down and work things out " with our own recalcitrant Congress if he really wants to land that big deal.
As he dearly wants to win something BIG let's give him the challenge.
7
It’s too bad in this day and age of social media and knee-jerk reactions to every event that happens that we pillar DJT, who I don’t like, for every single step he takes. Frankly, I think it’s appropriate to consult with the Saudis before moving forward.
3
Possibly if we weren't all aware that he wanted to build in Saudi Arabia and his family appears to be if not indebted to them, eager to do business with them, we would all be less concerned that he appears to be doing their bidding.
8
@Ron Consulting with someone isn't the same as deferring to them.
3
@Ron....I see absolutely no reason why we should consult with the Saudis, and even to condider offering them military support is obscene.
4
Trump is so transparent about some things and completely opaque on others. It is clear that he is perhaps owned by the Saudis--either in debt to them or just plan obsequious because he needs their financial support of his businesses around the world. His son-in-law's financial interests fall into that puzzle too. Trump also knows that the economy's success is the key to keeping his base happy and voting for him. Any rise in gas prices will cause problems here. It's an ugly mixture all based on self-interest and self-dealing. It is also clear that he will send our American military to defend the Saudis--particularly against Iran--though the Saudis can certainly take care of themselves. There is more at work here at which we can only guess based on Trump's words and actions. I don't want any more American military lives wasted on Middle East battlefields. This must not be allowed to happen. Hopefully, Congress finds its voice. But I'm not holding my breath here.
8
The attack affects more than just Saudi Arabia. Speculators look for any excuse to raise oil prices.
The US and other SA allies should supply SA with weapons and intelligence. SA should fight it's own fight.
6
The world buys a lot of oil because it is a fantastic fuel source. Iran is desperate now that their friend in the WH is gone. Iran has terrible leadership and that part of the world is full of a lot of angry violent people who have lived in an angry violent and repressed society for centuries. And no we don't want them here. This is just another reason to reduce oil consumption and become energy independent.
It sounds like they haven't decided which lie to tell us yet:
"Saudi officials have said that the information shared by the US was not definitive and that they have not reached the same conclusion yet, according to the WSJ."
However, when they do, Trump has assured us that Saudi Arabia will tell us how to proceed. So we are still waiting for word from our Saudi masters.
12
I have wondered whether the timing of the attack could also have been associated with today's elections in Israel?
18
@Jaap van der Straaten
You might be correct, but perhaps Iran would like to have Netanyahu re-elected since it can then have him as a reliable opponent.
I remember when trump and his supporters weren't going to silicate themselves to forgin foreign leaders like Obama did! American strength, American muscle! not quite....
5
Let Saudi Arabia defend itself. Time to get off their yachts, out of their private planes, and fight.
Remember those beautiful towers in NYC? Thousand dead and still dying from the contaminated dust. They are not our friends. They never were.
A pox on their endless wars. Let them settle their own affairs. It may take several more centuries, but that's their problem. Not ours.
36
Why the deference to Saudi Arabia?
I thought this country was an independent country-
13
@dog lover--And, the Saudi's should be our enemy. They are at least partially responsible for murdering 3,000 Americans on 9/11. And, Trump kowtows to them and defers to them. It's sickening.
4
We need to get out of the Middle East and stay out. Has anything that we have done there actually improved the region? We should spend our money here at home and transition to a clean energy economy.
25
If you understand the Trump administration as a money making operation then everything makes sense. He’s simply courting investors for his post Presidency real estate projects.
He’s rarely even made a serious attempt to conceal this agenda.
19
I've always said Trump is a political mercenary.
But I didn't know that would translate from domestic policies to international war.
11
Great article. The president is once again demonstrating weak deference to a country led by bad men with bad ideas, because he admires their wealth and their power. And because they are his personal allies in his personal businesses. Corruption flourishes.
Something is missing though....the American military industrial complex is one of the biggest producers of greenhouse gasses in the world (1.6 billion tonnes of carbon since 2001 Afghanistan). Saudi Arabia not only has a terrible human rights record and no democracy, but is the 4th largest emitter of carbon in the world (US is the largest).
The US should not be contemplating a carbon-intensive war anywhere— much less to defend a tiny, gluttonous, human rights-abusing, carbon-belching nation.
I don’t want my tax dollars to go towards protecting Saudi Arabia, which has built its wealth and power off exploiting a substance that is destroying the planet our children and grandchildren are supposed to inhabit, so that they can continue to produce that substance. Not to mention their role in the 9/11 attacks on the US.
Our president is shortsighted, as always, his vanity comes first.
The US and world would be safer and smarter putting its focus, energy and capital into work with its allies in Europe, Canada and other free countries to address and solve the climate emergency and to get us all off oil. Make windmills, not war.
27
Nothing matters anymore! Trump will have the Saudi's reimburse us for military action; turning our armed forces into a mercenary band; his base will love it and McConnell and company will bless it. He could shoot somebody during one of 'helicopter briefings' on camera broadcast live and he would still get away with it. Back in the 80s we joked that Reagan was teflon; trump has redefined the term.
10
Democrats running for President need to make it clear that they don’t support Saudi Arabia and that they also thank Iran or whoever was responsible for the attack on the oil facilities. It may slow down the US and world economy. That would be a problem for Trump because many people would be adversely affected. Surely Democrats cannot support any ill will or blame that Trump has aimed at Iran.
4
First, Trump was "locked and loaded," which led not just the U.S., but the world to believe an attack from the U.S. was imminent. What other meaning does that phrase have? Now we find out that far from locked and loaded he is waiting for instructions from the Saudis on what he should next. Why should he do anything? Let the Saudis and Iran work out their differences, or let the UN decide to take action, if action is needed. This is just one more example of Trump jumping the gun, backtracking, and seemingly having no idea what to do, or whether to do anything. He is certainly unequipped to deal with any kind of emergency situation that requires quick thinking and a measured response.
12
Nothing says it better than Trump’s adulation of the Saudis in his assertion that ‘They pay cash’. In his peanut-sized heart and brain, cash talks and all else walks. Life does not matter nor do dignity or integrity. Trump sells himself - and sells everyone else out - to the highest bidder. It is ironic that this message resonates best with his biggest supporters- Evangelicals- for whom the rewards here on earth appear to outstrip by far any rewards in heaven. The man whose gilded brand was forged through a TV show has always known that lip service aside, it is money that has always kept the mobs mesmerized. “They pay cash” is the only Bible acknowledged by DJT.
23
"Saudi Arabia oil supply was attacked. There is reason to believe that we know the culprit, are locked and loaded depending on verification, but are waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!"
A fascinating tweet. The lack of erratic capitalization, and the length and complexity of the second sentence make me believe Trump dictated but did not actually write this tweet. I suspect the accusations of deference stem from a misinterpretation of the tweet. Trump would never purposely show weakness. The "under what terms" statement is the linchpin. After all this time, people still somehow expect Trump to behave like a president and react to an international crisis with wisdom and America's best interests at heart. But to Trump, the crisis is a bargaining opportunity. "under what terms" is a shakedown. He is informing the Saudis that the American military is at their disposal if the price is right. Read this way, the tweet makes sense and is in keeping with what we know of Trump. All that remains is to gauge how Americans feel about their military being pimped out as mercenaries.
18
You are so correct! I can always tell when a Trump tweet is ghostwritten by the grammar, spelling and capitalization. I can just see him trying to compose a tweet and an aide grabbing his phone from his tiny hand saying, "No, Donnie, this is really important, let me do it!"
4
As long as I can remember, US presidents have kowtowed and looked the other way, when it comes to Saudi Arabia. The US fears a repeat of the 1973 and 1979 oil embargoes. Which caused the 1970s stagflation and early 1980s super inflation. It also led to reductions in US manufacturing, as well as the point in time where US wages peaked, adjusted for inflation; we have never returned to those levels.
So, the US fears a cut off in oil supply, making it vulnerable.
Funny, though, thanks to "fracking", the US is the leading oil producer in the world. It actually exports oil and natural gas. It finally achieved energy independence.
We all know the current oil pricing is manufactured, so the energy companies can make profits. However, because many Americans still think we get our oil from the middle east. the accept rising oil and gas prices, when there are escalated tensions in the middle east.
Trump is actually doing the right thing here; showing constraint. Going to war, will make things worse, in the US, because of rising oil prices. Also, the Saudi's have been fighting a proxy war, with Iran, in Yemen. They are trying to force the US into this proxy war, as is Israel.
The Saudis deserved what they got. Consider it payback for their exportation of radical Islam, encouraging terrorism, were the source of the rise of ISIS and those who attacked the US on 9/11. And, let's add their terrible human rights record.
They reaped what they sowed.
11
@Nick Metrowsky Trump doesn't do the right thing. It's not in his play book. No, he's merely dithering at best hoping we'll all jump up ready to go fight and die for his vanity and profits.
3
Here's my question: what do the Saudi's have on Trump and/or his family? That could explain a myriad of decisions he's making. Because he is so inherently unethical and has not had the financial success he claims to have had, this question could be posed about any number of foreign entities.
14
I certainly can sleep well knowing that a completely corrupt, failed businessman whose only success in life is a reality tv show is making decisions about the environment, the deficit, and whether we go into war.
23
It is wrong for American young people to risk their lives for oil in a country that is not an ally and has human rights violations. We should not be a gun for hire to the highest bidder.
18
Trump constantly lies, does not take daily security briefings, has no National Security Advisor or confirmed Secretary of Defense. He has broken more agreements/treaties than signed, has alienated most of our allies that could support a justified military action and has gutted the State Department, making a diplomatic solution more likely.
What could possibly go wrong?
15
Why are the attacks a problem for United States alone? Wouldn't be building some alliance with other countries that are more dependent on Saudi oil be the correct response? But it is not a virtue of the current administration to make friends - not even with dictators. It is just a fact that the "personal relationship" approach of the President failed completely and the bullying attempt against Iran caused nothing but the recent escalation. If the President only had the capability to accept that his approach failed and change course but that appears to be impossible for the President. But there is also no doubt that the "media" had never as much influence as now on decisions made by the President and the White House but most seem not to understand it. Some reporting about the general mood of the population about going to war with just another obscure country in the middle east will have way more effect on the President's decision than calling him out as a coward or simply crazy. It will only provoke radical reactions from the White House instead of rational decisions.
2
The United States is an oil exporter. It is no longer dependent on Saudi oil. Europe is dependent on Saudi oil. So why not let Europe cope wit Iran?
4
And none of this horrendous behavior would be happening if Mitch McConnell & his Republican politicians were not allowing it. The person in the president's office is NOT the problem; McConnell and his lock step supporters ARE.
17
@kkane Merely allowing it? There has to be something in it for them.
2
What a tinderbox the Middle East has become! There is no ability for the Trump administration to use diplomacy here because it shut down the State Department in favor of maintaining a war-footing in the Middle East.
The debacle in much of the Middle East can also be placed at the feet of much of the extremism that has arisen there since the beginning of this decade and before the decade began. Oil always trumped (no pun intended) democracy there.
What a mess! Watch the price at gas pumps rise along with heating oil and natural gas. It will be a strange way of arriving at conservation of the environment. The chance of war breaking out throughout the region is also palpable.
4
So what is going on?
The US emerged from WWII as the world's leading military and economic power. Since that time US hegemony has been predicated on: 1) unrivaled military power, 2) control of world's energy reserves (primarily in the ME), and 3) maintaining the dollar as the world's reserve currency. All of the pillars supporting US power are now threatened by continuing US economic decline and military parity with Russia and China.
US foreign policy regarding the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) and greater ME has remained essentially unchanged since the meeting between FDR and Saudi King Abdul Aziz aboard the USS Quincy in the Suez Canal in 1945. This meeting formalized US support for the Saudi Monarchy in return for KSA guaranteeing energy for the west.
The US/UK have still not recovered from the 1979 Islamic revolution. Iran has three things they covet- large energy reserves and key geo-strategic position in the Middle East and abutting the Strait of Hormuz, a strategic “choke point” through which circa 25% of the world's energy transits.
Yemen occupies a valuable piece of real estate on the Arabian Peninsula bordering the Red Sea and Bab-el-Mandeb strait (Arabic: "Gate of Tears"), connecting the Indian Ocean and Mediterranean Sea via the Red Sea and Suez Canal.
Despite having the world’s 3rd largest military budget, KSA (using mostly US supplied weapons) is unable to protect its oil infrastructure from attack by cruise missiles.
3
@Paul, given the penchant for Saudi support world wide of jihadi Sunni terrorists and madrassas, I would say the KSA violated at least in principle any agreement between the US and KSA. The US has been genuflecting to the Saudis since 9/12/2001 when the only planes permitted to fly were the Saudi royal family fleeing the US. Why we continue to cozy up to the Saudis completely baffles me. Go figure.
4
CSIS did it....to save the Alberta Oil Industry.
4
So which of the Trump administration’s friends happened to make a killing in the market right after the Saudis’ capacity was drastically reduced?
22
Instead of spending money and lives on war; and adding to global warming;
Can we use 25% of what would be the cost of war as a subsidy to make electrical vehicles cheaper in US?
And another 25% towards home solar subsidy?
We will still save 50% and all the lives; not to mention reduction into Global Warming.
71
The hoops we jump through and the unimaginable paths we take all in the name of oil and the corporations, countries and people who own it. There is a better way, but as long as there is a drop of oil left in the ground, there will be wars over it. After oil, the next battles will be over water.
39
Saudi Arabia got attacked. Not the US. Why would we act or attack before we had to hear what they said? We sell SA all kinds of stuff - perhaps too much - to defend itself anyway. It appears the liberals are becoming warmongers in their hatred of the administration.
17
@JoeGiul
It wasn't the liberals who suggested that we listen to the Saudis and do their bidding. It wasn't the liberals who said we were "locked and loaded". It was the tweeter in chief who made these comments. The liberals tried to stop the sale of all these arms to Saudi Arabia. Trump vetoed it.
14
@JoeGiul
No “liberal” and/or Democratic voter is in favour of any foreign war. The only people beating war drums are the administration, its Republican handlers and apologists and the portion of the public that votes Republican. As for the Saudis they are the allies of the Republicans and have always been given preferential treatment by Republican administrations starting from the Bin Laden family being flown out of the US to safety by the Bush administration on 9/11 despite all other flights being cancelled that day , to the murderous MBS being the Trump administration’s top ally even today despite his war crimes against the tiny country of Yemen and his bold murder of a US journalist in Turkey.
5
@JoeGiul, not everything is about political calculating or even money, despite Trump's thinking so, or yours. The country behind 9/11, behind a great deal of terrorism, behind assassinations abroad, has hidden out behind their American republican pals long enough. Bush said it wasn't important to catch Bin Laden, for heaven's sake. That had to wait for Obama. And Trump is so deep in their pockets that when he sneezes, their lint blows out. I thought republicans were all supposed to be patriots, and mind terrorists, but that's only when it suits their politics. Trump said you'd support him if he shot someone dead on the street--but it's getting ridiculous now.
5
What are you talking about? Trump DID retaliate. He Tweeted, didn't he? Tweeted the heck out of them!
Oh you mean, real, military bombs and jets and stuff? Whoa, wait... he needs to check with his lenders and accountants first.
76
I can think of a couple of likely culprits besides the Iranians.
Fishy that this attack occurred immediately prior to the Israeli elections, isn't it?
How many grins would come out of Putin for another "cheap shot" that shakes up the west?
31
The Saudis are armed to the teeth. Let them fight their battles by themselves!
78
We are witnessing a textbook case of why lying to the public by a president is an impeachable offense, and why the Constitutional Emoluments clause exists and violating it is a impeachable high crime
No one believes anything that comes out of the administration because trump lies or is wrong almost every sentence he speaks. That may be harmless when he is scribbling changes on a weather map with a sharpie and everyone knows it is just because he is an idiot, but war with Iran would create a global catastrophe. If no one believes him, the country, congress, and our allies would never support such an action...key point EVEN IF IT WAS JUSTIFIED because there is literally no way to know because he is a liar surrounded by liars
Add to his lying the undeniable fact that the Saudis have purchased influence from trump. They have spent hundreds of millions in his Chicago and New York hotels, bailed him out financially several times following his bankruptcies before he was selected president, gave $100 million to a "charity" run by Ivanka, and loaned Kushner at least $500 million that we know of.
Policy that aligns with Saudi Arab interests is automatically suspect because he has a massive personal financial stake in their country. If he does NOT do what Arabs want, they cut off the cash
Republicans enabled this crime spree presidency to continue, and STILL provide cover. Every elected Republican in the country is part of the problem because they put party over country
149
@John
Republicans have indeed enabled this "crime spree presidency" (a lovely descriptive term) but the Democratic leadership must shoulder a large portion of the blame. By not divesting himself of his assets or putting them in a blind trust, Trump created massive conflicts of interest that dwarf anything the Founding Fathers could have imagined and rendered himself impeachable from the moment he took the oath of office. Examples abounded and continue to abound like low-hanging fruit. But the Democratic establishment instead went down the "Russia Russia Russia" rabbit hole in their desperation to blame somebody else -- anybody -- for their 2016 debacle and to head off progressives who wanted to change the leadership over it. They pinned their hopes on Mueller making the "collusion" connection, but when Mueller determined there was "insufficient" evidence after a two year investigation, impeachment and removal from office was, at least politically, stone cold dead. Republicans could now safely circle the wagons and successfully depict any further talk impeachment as a highly partisan "witch hunt" and, without them, it simply isn't going to happen. So the Trump "crime spree" continues and may just plunge us into a disasterous war. Nice job of "resistance," Democrats!
5
@John I don't think it's really party over country, I think it's money over everything. Full stop.
7
First Saudi has to stop killing innocent children and women in Yemen . Then America can talk to defend them . The problem is that We are also partner in killing Yemeni people for no good reason . We do not want our tax dollars wasted in such dirty killings. When America going to stop being protector of autocrats and monarchs of the world.
40
Remember that photo of Putin and MBS fist-bumping at the G-20 in Buenos Aires? "You would be happy too if you just got away with murder," wrote Aaron Blake of The Washington Post. They own Trump and he is doing their bidding. Meanwhile Republicans own the Supreme Court, the Justice Department, the White House and the Senate. All of them are bent on bringing the country to its knees to kneel before His Heinous.
55
The holdback of the retaliation for the earlier US drone shoot down ... and the “firing” of Bolton has emboldened Iran ...
In the Middle East, if you fail to stand up to your enemy, you are considered very weak - If the US fails to retaliate in a credible way ... watch out !
The Sunni Arabs will see it as weakness and might just join Iran ...
That will leave Israel as the only power standing up to Iran ...
A new Middle East War will then become inevitable ...
1
Yeah, the Sunnis "might" join with Shiite Iran, so we'd better attack them quick because otherwise there might be a war? Got it.
8
@Henry
Does any sentient being upon this planet not already know the US will always over-attack, especially post 9-11? In fact our propensity to always think to attack is used against us to instigate our policies. America certainly has the luxury of waiting to start its next, next, next war here. I suggest we wait at least until we turn the lights out in Afghanistan.
4
@Henry We can't "retaliate" for something that wasn't done to us. We're not Saudi Arabia.
7
So the Wahabbist Kingdom apparently controls the decisions of our Justice Dept in preventing the investigation and prosecution of the torture and killing of a WP journalist, so its not surprising that Trumpo would apparently cede control to the medieval state of Department of Defense decisions on initiating armed conflict with Iran.
I say "apparently" because once Trumpo realizes that a world wide recession would ensue from a mid-east conflagration, thus dooming his reelection prospects, he'll tuck his tail between his legs and slink off.
23
For DECADES, the Saudi Royal Family, and Russian oligarchs, have financed the Trump Organization. It's that simple. This con man is a clear and present danger to our republic.
52
Who knew the president was able to genuflect?
Such flexibility is unexpected in one so ossified.
30
@Jay Dwight, no, he's very bendy. Practically serpentine.
4
What a mess. Everybody itching to fight, but they don't know how to wrap it up.
The congress should decide. Yes, but on what pretenses? Surely, Saudi Arabia has to ask for it to make it appear justified.
Saudis at least should pay. How much is a dead US soldier worth?
And what if this was not an Iranian provocation at all? How would this action help Iran to ease sanctions?
They may have supplied the drones to the Yemeni rebels, so what? Doesn't the US supply weapons to whoever wants to buy them?
Is the world oil supply under threat? Rubbish. There is plenty of oil at short notice.
Just take it easy, America.
15
Iran (probably) attacked Saudi, (from whence most of the 9/11 hijackers came from). Iran did not attack us.
Why is this our business? Saudi is swimming in US military hardware. Let them take care of this themselves.
49
Oil price rises benefit no one but oil producers and sellers. We are one of the beneficiaries along with Iran & Russia. Why spoil a good thing?
In a time like this, we want to pull the troops out of Afghanistan, we just don't want to commit additional troops to combat some terrorists and fall into a perpetual war syndrome. It will be bloody and costly.
6
Trump is saying to the Saudis 'You fight your own wars'.
The Saudis and Israelis are both pushing the US to fight a war on their behalf with Iran.
Trump is saying 'NO' and I'm proud of him for that!
4
@AWorldIntwined.com
No-- he is waiting for direction from the Saudis about how they would like him to proceed. Nothing more
4
@AWorldIntwined.com, I didn’t read Trump’s tweet as saying that.
2
Donald Trump is correct to defer to the Saudis.
Too many times, when the US is not directly involved, we step in as the greedy Overlord, ready to right any wrong when it is not our place.
I suspect the Saudis will do nothing except step up their campaign in Yemen. We (Christians) must understand that the tit-for-tat between Shiite and Sunni has been going on longer than the US has been a country.
I also strongly suspect that business leaders had a hand in calming Trump. I can’t imagine Mr. Emotional looking at any situation rationally unless someone spoke to him. Which as we know is a miracle unto itself.
4
When you have a president who is more concerned with his own (and his son-in-law's) fortune after leaving office than he is with American national security, this is the kind of "strategic" decision-making you get. Trump and his family are corrupt to the core and should never have been let near the Oval Office. The fact that elected Republicans continue to ignore or cover up the corruption is yet another reason we must ALL vote for the Democrat in every election at every level.
48
This President is too dangerous for words. Our Army is now for hire? God help us because Republicans surely won’t.
70
I know that Donald Trump does not have a Presidential bone in his body but this is a time when he needs to quit running his mouth and reflect on what it would mean to send American military to war on behalf of his friends in "the Kingdom." The American people are not having it and we cannot be whipped up into a war mongering frenzy over this.
21
no matter what happens the iranians will blame trump and the u.s. just keep squeezing them, and figure out a strategy for getting oil to where it is needed from other sources.if the iranians persist, which they will because they are insane fanatics, at least the leaders are.then put together a coaltion of countries affected by their actions, and shut them down.once and for all.its already war.and my belief is they already have a nuclear weapon or are a lot closer, thanks to the russians and the chinese then we realize.
The USA has, through its weak leadership, shrunk to a diminished position in the global community. Somebody else is becoming the standard setter. We’re all worse off.
A president should be well informed, use his advisors to research, negotiate, and develop a foreign policy, and then act decisively, once and for all.
I’m not suggesting that a decision to attack another sovereign entity is a smart move - or that it isn’t, but some level of global stability is reliant US president’s predictability. If you do that, then we’ll do this.
Global security is not a movie and throwing around terms like locked and loaded is nothing more than a bully puffing out, in this case, his hair.
Now, a country that is in many ways backwards, empowered by the money provided by a natural resource that over time will have a declining value due to new technologies, is enabled to grant permission to the way this country will act.
What happened? What will happen?
5
I would not object to a war against Iran as long as it keeps the US from invading Greenland.
6
I abhor Trump, but his deference to the Saudis, waiting for their advice before undertaking any action, is a measured and reasonable response. After all, it was Saudi Arabia that was attacked.
3
@charlie corcoran
So once again, it boils down to our draft-dodging President Donald Trump, seeking and taking advice from sociopathic dictators, or as in this case, a murderous Saudi Prince.
I suppose many think that is what you call "Making America Great Again!"
9
@charlie corcoran Deference to the Saudis should be irrelevant. Our President’s job is to act in the national interest at all times.
4
@charlie corcoran Saudia Arabia is NOT an ally. Why would their opinion about what we should do at all trigger any potential of military action? Of course we shouldn't attack in this case but not bc of what they say!!!!! Is the US military available for hire? Sounds like Trump would give up American lives for profit to himself or his cronies happily. That anyone can think his response is measured and reasonable is terrifying . . . .
7
That Trump is subservient to the Saudis is a fairly cheap shot. I don't mind him being hit with it, but it is a cheap shot. As it was the Saudis attacked, consulting with them as to how to move forward was the proper thing to do, something any reasonable President would do. That's what allies do: they consult one another. It was Pompeo who leaped to overstep the line, reaching prematurely for any excuse to fulfill the Neo-con's longstanding dream of war with Iran, as if all the Middle East were simply ours to dispose as we please.
It should be fairly clear by now that, for all his bellicosity, Trump is probably, to his credit, genuinely adverse to war; in less praiseworthy terms, to accepting personal responsibility for one. He's a thoroughly political, self-dealing creature. He can read his audience and is attentive to his brand. It seems he understands that with something upwards of half America disbelieving every word he says, wagging the dog is not going to work for him. Engaging in open war with Iran would further spike oil prices, tank the American and global economies, and make his diehard supporters wonder what happened to all that America First blather about no longer being the world's policeman. It would likely end his chances of reelection; bribe attendance at his hotels and resorts would come to an end; prosecutors everywhere would close in.
Trump is mercurial, so all could change on a dime. But for now, Trump is, once again, falling back to his core instinct.
7
Trump said the US should not be the world's policeman. All he wants the US to be is the Saudi's enforcer. Why the US sold weaponry and military know-how the Kingdom for the Saudis to turn around and tell us to use our skills and manpower is beyond me. How much does the King of Debt (and his non-qualified special advisor son-in-law) owe to the King of Saudi Arabia? Is this to be the final payoff, or just another installment? How he will sell this to his base will be the whopper of the century. Or will he just deny having said he was waiting for the Kingdom to tell him what to do, that it is just more fake news? One thing you have to agree to: never a dull moment with a dull blade in the Oval Office.
9
We need Trump's taxes immediately. The United States does not take marching orders (literally) from other nations, especially those run by murderous despots who spread extremism throughout the world. Donald Trump is deeply compromised, and likely corrupted, by his financial entanglements. We must know what those are.
I also notice the utter silence coming from the Republican party on this issue. For those keeping track, that's the political party that drapes itself in the flag, is always screeching about "supporting the troops", and excoriated President Obama for his actions on the world stage, none of which came remotely close to the utter debasement and obsequiousness to dictators that Donald Trump displays.
21
The truth is that it is not the US that needs Saudi oil but the rest of the world. Fracking is a good thing.
3
Does anybody remember WMD's?
11
One interesting aspect of this story is the fact that relatively inexpensive drones can wreak havoc. The US introduced drone warfare and since then we have known it would come back to bite us (or in this case our ally). Currently there is no good national defense against drones and it would be a tragedy if we unleashed our military in this instance. In my opinion we don’t know how to win a modern war — maybe no one does.
12
There should be no doubt that the only calculus in Trumps “strategy” is how much money he and his business interests personally stand to lose if he winds up on the wrong side of the saudis.
20
Does any of the Trump base follow events like this, or do they focus only on his bellicosity at our southern border. Its hard to imagine that any US citizen could find Ts clueless activities with Saudi Arabia attractive, but maybe they just go for supporting him against all of his liberal critics and pay little attention to foreign policy.
12
Everyone that reads this is happy to use their oil. Everyone that reads this doesn't talk about the oppression in this and other Muslim countries so why wouldn't Trump defer? Isn't the US public tacitly supporting the Saudis?
2
Senator Bernie Sanders: "Congress will not give you the authority to start another disastrous war in the Middle East just because the brutal Saudi dictatorship told you to."
They have given Trump money. That's all he cares about, but let's not pretend that Trump is the first Republican president to bow to the Saudis. Bush/Cheney secretly flew the Saudi royal family out of the U.S. after 9-11 before any of them could be questioned about Bin Laden or al-Qaeda. They, then, engaged in a massive cover-up of the essential facts that Saudi money funded al-Qaeda and that the hijackers received their radical indoctrination in Saudi Arabia. Then, they used fake news to drum up a case for war with Iraq: a country that had nothing at all to do with 9-11. All the Republicans and most of the Democrats, including Clinton and Biden, went along with them.
14
Normally, a president would rely on US intel agencies, and on the National Security Council, before deciding on the use of military force. This president, however, consistently avoids US intel agencies. Is it because they refuse to swear their fealty to him?
As for the NSC process, it simply doesn't exist and, except for a brief time under NSA McMaster, it never has under this administration. Trump relies on his gut instinct even more than Bush 45 did, and not on a concept as quaint as coordination among the key national security players.
10
The deference to the Saudis is likely because they would come under further attack if the US struck.
But Trump would come under criticism for anything he does here. He can afford to be patient - but then you write this. If he immediately responded, he'd be called out for being trigger happy and reacting before getting his allies on side.
I'm guessing that missile defences are being enhanced and additional evidence against Iran is being gathered from the debris. Whether Trump makes a move after that: I think he's a lot more prudent about these matters than he is credited for.
3
With all due respect, I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you. Reasonable price.
12
@Dred
You give Trump far too much credit by assuming he is a rational human being. He makes every decision and statement on pure whimsy. He reacts to whatever he last heard from Fox commentators and other extremists. Trump constantly contradicts himself because he has absolutely no principles other than self aggrandizement. He truly believes his delusion that he is a "stable genius" who knows more than any scientist, economist or general.
5
@Dred
Uh, yeah, Donald Trump is going to be criticized for just about everything he does because just about everything he does is horrific.
Speaking as a US Army veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan, why is Donald Trump so invested in the matters of Saudi Arabia at all?
They tortured and murdered a WaPo journalist. They have no respect for human or civil rights. They are not an ally. So why is Donald Trump even speaking on this at all? This is something the US ambassador to the UN should be addressing. Not the president. And it’s astounding that you are defending this aberration.
This isn’t about politics. This is about what is best for the country, our true allies, and the billions of people around the world who suffer tyrants as leaders.
2
How much proof is needed to prove Trump has no idea on how to be president? He and the rest of the world has escaped disaster through unbelievable luck. Now that Trump appears to be his only advisor, all of our good fortune is about to run out.
64
It’s not luck. There is a structured, organized decision-making process that helps the president make informed decisions about the use of military force. Comments like yours seem to attract a lot of support from other New York Times readers, but I regret to say that they are woefully misinformed.
1
@David H
Do you really think there is an “organized decision-making process” that goes on in the Oval Office?!
1
Regardless of what is going on in the presidents mind any military action against Iran would be an act of war and would require congressional authority.
The exception is if American forces were attacked by Iran military force. There defense is left to the discretion of the executive branch and its commanders.
The constitution was written with these limitations on war powers because the American colonies had been forced to fight on behalf of Great Britain in its border wars with Indian nations. They were then taxed to pay for those wars.
So our constitution put the declaration of war in the branch of government closest to the people. Unfortunately congress has failed miserably in its exercise of that responsibility. Bush's war based on lies is the perfect example.
We have no treaty with the Saudi's and no evidence from them about the source of the attacks. Frankly, even if they did come from Iran, given the Saudi proxy wars they have been directing at Iran one should expect retaliation in some form.
But we are not responsible the the Saudi wars and not responsible for any blowback.
There are ample world supplies of oil and no indication that this attack will have any impact on the US economy. Therefore, from what we know so far, there is no justifiable reason to attack Iran.
The role the US should be playing is as a mediator to end the war in Yemen. But that requires a real State Department and diplomacy, both of which are sorely lacking in this administration.
52
If the president and his supporters want to have informed citizens trust them to make the right decision, they need to stop posturing and propagandizing and give us some facts.
For example, yesterday Representative Nunes was tweeting about how the liberal Democrats had scuttled the opportunity to drill for oil on public lands and as luck would have it, right when we need that oil most given prices are going up rapidly due to the attack on Saudi production.
This sort of ridiculous posturing by politicians whose job it is to explain to the American public what is happening is the root cause for so much distrust and it needs to stop.
33
So Saudi Arabia is the in third position in defense spending, cannot win a war in Yemen, and cannot protect its oil installations and Trump wants to the US to ride to the rescue. To defend what? Certainly not democracy that the Trump is undermining in the US. We do not need more 9/11 from Saudis.
38
Congress needs to see Donald Trump's tax returns to figure out why the Saudi's have such a strong influence over him. The influence is overwhelming and dangerous.
58
@Jerry
In this instance I believe it may not be Trump so much who has financial skin in the Saudi game, but his son-in-law Jared and Jared's brother, Josh. Research the younger Kushner's Thrive Capital.
Oh, and the American businessmen (executives) who might stand to make an almighty dollar or two (or billion) during war times. Just ask Dick Cheney a la Halliburton.
Always, always always: follow the money.
4
American soldiers, marines, airmen, and sailors don’t swear oaths to uphold the Constitution to become guns for hire abroad. If they wanted to be mercenaries, they’d have gone to work for Blackwater. The President betrays American service members and their families if he gambles their lives blatantly to prop up an authoritarian Saudi monarchy in its poorly played game of regional power politics.
66
Like everything else he does, his motives are transactional - between his fantasy that the U.S. will do a big “deal” with Saudi Arabia, and likely connections to the Trump and Kushner organizations - he is focused on money. And like everything else, from that motive we quickly get to a confusing and contradictory blend of threats and appeasement.
22
Why is nobody questioning the fact that there were no casualties when one of the most highly guarded oil installations in Saudi Arabia was attacked? Are you telling me that the refinery was completely deserted and unguarded? Or were they tipped off? The way that the media is automatically taking the Trump administration assertion that Iran was behind the attack as gospel truth brings to mind the way the media pushed the war against Iraq.
35
The Saudi's have been trying to crush Yemen for years, and being quite successful at it. They have killed millions of innocent Yemeni civilians in their efforts, and we have supported them. Now the rebels in Yemen have struck back, because Saudi leadership is weak and their defensive systems badly organized. Why would we want to waste our military resources on this regime? We have energy independence. Let them figure it out themselves.
17
In tweeting that the United States is “waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!”, he clearly has defined that despite America having the resources of its vast intelligence community and all its tools and technology available, his administration is going to defer to the opinions and instructions of Saudi Arabia.
He has laid it out there that America will do what Saudi Arabia wishes and they are in charge.
19
@Victor Cook
But of course. Just as, why listen to the consensus of all US intelligent agencies re: Khashoggi's murder, when MBS personally gave Trump his word that he had nothing to do with it. And now just wait: one guess as to whom SA's finger will point at, after their "investigation". Any independent outside team of investigators assisting in the search?
1
We have no mutual defense treaty with the Saudis, and the refinery was not in Houston. Let's hit the pause button before we talk about being "locked and loaded."
147
@Michael, we could always propose a treaty. In return for us bailing them out this time, the Saudis agree to withdraw their imams to within their borders, never fund another madrassa, never donate to terrorist groups, and take full and honest responsibility for al Qaeda and for September 11th.
Do you think they'll sign? If the administration is going to insist that everything be transactional, we have a right to state our price.
3
When you dance with swords and glowing orbs, what can one expect?
40
Trump is incompetent for the job, always has been, always will be, but the G.O.P.s refusal to see this is putting this country in a danger greater then the cold war.
We will be lucky to make the 2020 election without a war.
63
@BTO The GOP is actually quite content to just continue stuffing their pockets in the darkness behind 45’s long, fat shadow.
2
But the Saudis are a special case. No other "ally" trained and supported the 9/11 attackers.
I don't mind that lil'trump is their lap-dog. I do mind that he wants the US to be one.
74
Remember in the pre-election debates, when Trump responded to Hillary Clinton: "Puppet? Puppet? Who's a puppet? I'm not a puppet!"
62
his lack of competent statecraft boggles my mind.. it all about the deal. Now he wants to outsource the military of the united states to the whims of a murderer? He should be sitting down with the U.N., with the democracies of Europe, who loathe him. He used up all of his good-will credit cards a long time ago..
32
The Russians and Saudis are Trump's bankers. He owes them so much, they own him!
34
He's in thrall to everyone to whom he has some kind of debt: Saudi Arabia, Russia....and Lord only knows who else. Its probably quite a long list.
24
The US is open for business, you can now hire the bestest army ever in many histories and win bigly.
52
@the downward spiral.
except they won't won't be repaying the tax payers
4
His deference to SA is readily explained: Trump sees the kingdom as a huge investment opportunity for the Trump Organization now and in the future. To Trump, the Saudis are business partners and potentially the source of badly needed cash.
Other explanations, geo-political or otherwise, are just hot desert air.
41
I know everything Trump says or does needs a healthy dose of skepticism, but maybe, just maybe, Trump is saying:
"The Saudis, not the U.S., were attacked, and if they don't want us to start a war in the region that will put them at risk, then we'll hold off"
as opposed to:
"I'll attack whoever the Saudis want whenever they say so".
Akin to giving them a negative consent right, or veto, on launching a war from their territory.
And no, I don't think it's hard to imagine allowing a NATO or European ally or Japan or Korea to have a veto in whether the U.S. determines to start a proxy war from their territory.
I think this article should address this interpretation of Trump's position. Because the article is taking a fairly strong critical position with not a lot to go on.
4
@Mmm
You give him far too much credit... unless you are a teenager, you should at this point be aware of the fact trump has a decades long history of running off his mouth in front of microphones and cameras and that he has no filter, he says whatever is in his head and there is no “interpretation” necessary.
He’s never been able to hide his feelings or intentions and one way or another they slip out when he is speaking, it’s nothing new and nothing that needs understanding, it’s how he’s always been.
8
@Mmm
That interpretation is quite a stretch!
3
@Mmm
It is impossible to interpret the motives of a proven narcissistic incompetent with the attention span of a gnat. The statute of limitations on giving Trump the "benefit of a doubt" ran out long ago.
7
The Iranians attacked Saudi oil fields in the first instance because they calculate — correctly in my opinion — that Mr. Trump is in the midst of a 2020 presidential election campaign, and the last thing that he can afford is a war. In particular, a war that has the potential to spread to the territories of American allies, such as Israel and Jordan,
Mr. Trump knows that as well, which is why he has effectively rejected a military response under the guise of “deferring” to the Saudis. For their part, the Saudis know that they are in trouble with American public opinion, and the absolute last thing they will do is indicate in any way, shape, or form that they are giving orders to the US president to commit US forces.
I am amazed that this obvious, transparent ploy is being so widely misinterpreted and misunderstood.
5
@David H
I think we have been lied to so often by Trump that he has lost all credibility.
5
The Saudis attacked their own oil fields with the weapons Jared brokered three months ago. Jared is pulling the strings so both Saudis and Israel can attack Iran for their oil.
With a President that has lied over 12,500 times, you might want to question your source.
And please don’t say U.S. Intelligence agencies affirm this because you’ve already chosen to dismiss their conclusions when it served you.
6
I agree that we have been lied to, but one not need not believe or disbelieve public assertions when a cold, clear eyed political analysis of the situation will suffice.
For whatever reason, Trump is for once taking the smart path. Iran has taken a very dangerous path. They could see an international coalition against them, whereas they have had something of a coalition of major powers with them against Saudi and the US. If Trump had diplomatic skill, he could be the leader of the alliance against Iran.
Notwithstanding the fact that none of this would be happening if Trump had not violated the nuclear deal with Iran.
5
Actually, this probably would’ve happened ultimately regardless of whether the United States pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal. That deal had an expiration date, and once it lapsed, the Iranians would be free to return to all their enrichment and other nuclear-related activities. The JCPOA merely kicked the nuclear can down the road; it did not by any means resolve it, although it would have given Iran ample time to improve its economic position, and thereby be able to divert more financial resources into its military activities.
6
@David H JCPOA opened channels for normalizing relations with Iran, which in turn allowed further negotiations to limit if not dismantle their nuclear weapons program. From your comment I see you have no idea how diplomacy works.
6
@David H
Your argument is actually intellectually dishonest. The goals of the JCPOA were not only to prevent Iran from building and stockpiling materials for building nuclear weapons in the short terms, but also build in mechanism to inform and alert the other signatories when and if Iran nearly reaches he point of doing so. The other goals were to entice and ultimately modify Iranian behaviors with economic and trade benefits. It would take time and diplomatic engagement since the reality is that Iran is a regional power and not going away. Regionally, Iran, as a changed country as a result of economic and trade with the West, could become counterweigh to SA and that would lessen the chance of conflict.
Trump and his hawks, in abandoning the nuclear deal, are very shortsighted with an unfathomable illusion that US military might can change regimes and wipe clean history.
8
The elephant in the room is Saudi Arabia (us) has been bombing Yemen for years and they finally got enough of it. They now have a very effective, very inexpensive way to fight back. We can't go bullying our way around the planet. That's over.
51
Unfortunately, the situation is not as simple as that. The United States decided in the aftermath of World War II to become the dominant global financial and military power to reshape the world in our own vision. There is to this very day strong, broad American public support for maintaining that position, funded by your tax dollars in mine. As long as there are sovereign states such as Iran, Russia, China, and North Korea which seek to challenge and upset US international interests — interests which, in the final analysis, are aimed at securing and maintaining the enviable way of life that we have in our country live — new methods will continually need to be developed to meet the challenges of emerging forms of warfare.
4
That would be comforting if we hadn’t elected a bully to run the country. Oh, and gave him nuclear weapons too.
5
Then I suggest you change the situation in 2020.
Why are we considering going to war to benefit the Saudis... again? I get that we don't want to mention it, ever, but 19 of the 20 highjackers on 9/11 were Saudis. Remember that fun fact? Let's say it together, shall we? 19 of the 20 highjackers on 9/11 were Saudis. Why is that always glossed over or ignored? It's even omitted here in the brief history of recent Saudi/US relations supplied by the authors.
Why are we defending these violent, misogynistic, backwards billionaires? The oil? Let's be friends with Iran instead. Ten times the population of SA. A beautiful and ancient culture. Just as much proven reserves.
We just went through another 9/11 anniversary with the bagpipes and the bell-ringing and the tears. Now another Republican wants to take us to war to defend the monsters who brought it about.
250
@Julian Fernandez
The first thing we did after 9/11 was shut down all air traffic. The second thing we did was create an exception: planes were used to round up Bin Laden family members in the US, and then fly them to safety in Saudi Arabia.
I'll repeat that--fly Bin Laden family members to safety in Saudi Arabia. After being attacked by Saudis.
We took extraordinary pains to protect family of the perpetrator of 9/11--instead of holding them captive as ransom.
Why?
17
@Julian Fernandez
Good points... I've often wondered why we've mismanaged our relationship with Iran. Going back to the 50's and the democratically elected Mossadegh's overthrow by our CIA. What could have been...
2
@Julian Fernandez - Actually 15 were Saudis. Of the other four, one Egyption, one Lebanese and two from the UAE. Your point however, holds. Can you imagine the deafening high decibel red faced outrage we'd be hearing from republicans and fox had Obama shown such cozy fealty to SA, a murderous Bin Salman, and willingness to shed American blood (and treasure) on their behalf? They would have impeached him yesterday.
8
Imagine the Republican response if Barak Obama sent such a tweet. And now, their continued acceptance of Donald Trump’s utter incompetence is coming home to roost. The GOP is complicit in every misadventure, every humiliation and every compromise of national security that this president perpetrates. He needs to go, the sooner the better. Impeachment makes more sense every day. Too much can go wrong between now and 2020. Arrogance and ineptitude are a dangerous combination.
126
I agree, Walt ...
6
@walt amses
The Republicans have long been pro Saudi, you are wrong.
3 yrs into his presidency and Trump has no idea what America stands for - well he does, it's his own financial gain. Saudi Arabia should fight their own war with Iran if that's what they want. But they're too busy torturing and dismembering their own subjects. Unbelievable that Trump/Pompeo are eager to expend American lives to please nurse Trump's bottom line.
57
As with everything else Trump says it is impossible to ascribe customary meanings to his rambling comments. His mastery of the English language is comparable to that of a seventh grader. He may mean he will permit Saudi Arabia to call the shots. He may mean he will support a Saudi attempt at retaliation. He may have no idea what he means. Never has America's fate, and that of democracy, been in the hands of such an incompetent leader.
67
@Disillusioned
"comparable to that of a seventh grader"??
My 7 YEAR OLD is more articulate than Trump is. Not to mention more thoughtful, more moral, more compassionate, etc.....
27
I agree ... it is no longer a question of policy - it is a question of Governance ... and the security of the the USA and free World...
6
@Disillusioned I agree completely with your sentiments. I do feel, however, that your comparison does most 7th graders a serious injustice.
11
Mr. Trump is openly treating our soldiers like mercenaries?! Where are the adults in the Republican party? All retired to tax havens?
117
@mjw
The Republican Party died the day they brought trump in... this is the Trump Organization Party, funded and run by the highest bidders.
6
Wait fellas. This is a serious matter. Our response will either start a new war over there or show us to be a weak sister if we do nothing. Let's not get to eager to bad mouth Trump, and let's try to put our country first. There are no perfect answers here.
4
@Lee Irvine
The left never puts their country first. they bash it first and last.
In my opinion, foregoing a military response does not show American weakness. Rather, it allows us to build a more powerful case that Iran represents a threat not just to the Middle East but to the global economy as a whole. There is a virtue in patience.
3
@Lee Irvine
So we need to put our country first - by not being a "weak "sister" to the Saudis. Meaning what, exactly?
Sounds like a little conflict of agendas there, no?
4
Despite all the actions by the Saudi's to include no repercussions post 9/11 for the nine Saudi's who attacked us, nor the horrific human rights abuses..or the murder of Khashggi, Trump continue to nurture a personal relationship.
Because that is where the money is..Trump is going to need money post President to "cash in" on his brand. The western banks will not touch him then or now and Deutche Bank is under tremendous pressure to dump Trump as a client. That leaves only the Saudi's.
Trump would put our people at risk for the sole purpose of reinforcing is monetary position with the Saudi's...despite the billions of dollars the Saudi's have spent on arm.
Trump is more dangerous than ever with disjointed mental capacity, greed and his sick hubris.
15
'With oil under attack..."
Indeed
Those poor kids in HK didn't know they need proximity to a fossil fuel to see movement from a US President.
11
And once again, Congress is totally absent
26
A pretty good explanation for the deference can be found herehttps://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/us/politics/trump-jr-saudi-uae-nader-prince-zamel.html
3
Yet another in the long list of embarrassments Trump brings us.
9
I just don’t know get you, NYT.
Would you rather have someone in office who is Not cautious about using our military in the Middle East once again? While you are criticizing Trump for sending mixed signals isn’t that exactly what Obama did in Syria?
Buried in the story are perfectly acceptable explanations of why Trump would want to consult with Saudi Arabia and wait for confirmation and a coordinated response, a position endorsed by former members of both Democrat and Republican administrators
.
3
@Anne And I just dont get you. It gets increasingly difficult to be an apologist for Trump when his tweet diplomacy is so obviously deranged. I applaud you for trying anyway. Lets see, the good part here is that Trump is cautious? I guess I missed that in the "lock and load" statement. And it is reasonable that Trump wants to consult with Saudi Arabia and wait for confirmation. I was under the impression that he had one of the best intelligence services in the world, and that he therefore does not need to depend on Israel and Saudi Arabia to find out what has happened. I also missed the part about a coordinated response. Is this related to the notion that we dont need to consider coordinated responses to help out our NATO allies, but that coordinated military action with SA is now acceptable? I guess I would find your comments clearer if they were more explicit than just "Whatever he does is probably OK".
3
@Anne, I'd rather have someone is office who is competent, not clueless.
1
The very thought that President Trump's would initiate a major military conflict as Saudi Arabia's proxy is as outrageous as it is foolish and potentially catastrophic. The attack on the Saudi oil refineries along with Iran's seizure of oil tankers is a symptom of desperation by Iran as their economy buckles under U.S. sanctions. Now may be the time for a deal, but is Trump capable of making it with no diplomatic skill and only a hawk in Secretary of State Mike Pompeo as an adviser and the equally inexperienced and blood-thirsty Mohammed bin Salman whispering in his ears.. The U.S. has no business outsourcing their military policy to the Saudis in any case. If Trump wants the diplomatic "win" he seems so desperate for, this is the very moment for it. Whatever we think of Trump, we can only hope that he can finally make a deal rather than break them. The alternative is a potentially region-wide war that would engulf the entire Middle East with the potential to destroy its oil refineries an push the west into recession.
146
@Paul Wortman I have noticed a funny thing about Trump: he doesn't love war. Let's not assume outcomes and then mistake our assumptions for facts. Let's wait and see what he pulls out of the hat here.
2
@Paul Wortman
I think a region-wide war has great potential to become a world war. Once the global economy crashes, all nations will be forced to engage on some level.
Let's hope Trump and his cronies can somehow bumble their way out of this.
19
@James Ribe
It will be the same thing he has been pulling out of a hat for years...
"...We'll see what happens"
Trump has no plan, never had a plan for anything. He just keeps saying "we'll see what happens" because he has no idea what is going to happen with any of this.
6
Had the President merely said he would take into account Saudi Arabia's recommendations in deciding the best actions to take on our Nation's behest thee would be little objection. We strongly support all of our allies, but we don't blindly follow their directions.
3
While I still think the GOP works for the 0.0001%, Trump works for a handful of dictators by attempting to provide them with legitimacy and support, to the extent that he listens to their input over that of our own intelligence community--and says so publicly.
Truly, he is an enemy of the people.
47
“How do we proceed” that’s the question everyone wants the answer to. There will be no solid answer from this skeleton government of one.
8
Didn't Trump claim to already sell $110 Billion in arms to the Saudis so they could presumably protect themselves?
33
It’s possible that oil is not under attack. That this was a rehearsal the Trump crew initiated for their friends trading in oil. So if we have satellites let’s go review the footage to see exactly what happened. Saudi Arabia and Iran hate each other. Saudi Arabia spends billions on defense and we all await their upcoming claim. Famous for killing those who criticize against it Saudi Arabia can explain exactly what happened. So missiles or drones were used and exactly where did they come from and how come their defense system did not shoot them down? Now Putin , Trumps close friend wants to sell them missiles. Remember Trump said Lock and Load but changed its meaning the next day. Comedy continues.
8
@Ralph Petrillo Maybe its too over the top, but I think we should start a conspiracy theory that this drone attack was initiated by Trump to boost US income from oil exports and to pressure US car companies to go along with revising the Obama era mileage standards. If Saudi Arabia cannot be considered a reliable source of fossil fuels, we need more drilling in the north slope. Also, LNG from Texas is way less vulnerable to terrorist attack than that in SA.
War is always unpredictable and there is a chance that cooler heads might mitigate some risk here so patience matters. There is always plenty of time to blow things up. Iran isn't going anywhere.
4
Saudi Arabia can defend itself without U.S. help, but better yet bring it to the United Nations. The U.S. need not become involved in another war.
7
Um, excuse me, Trump may indeed be bumbling through this as usual, but last I checked, the Saudis had an arsenal.
What are the Saudis doing with all that war machinery they buy from us? Guarding their vanity-pet white tigers and wives under house arrest? I can’t fathom how a competent defense system would leave their oil production wide open.
Congress, for crying out loud, please resist this President with alacrity. I’m up to here with presidents with more loyalty to the Saudis than to American lives and dignity. We don’t need to repeat the ignominy of Kuwait, and the Bushes, feed Trump’s mysterious obeisance to MBS.
45
Iran could make its Trump troubles go away by copping a page from the Saudi playbook, and booking some suites at any of his failing hotel properties.
24
@Hugh Briss
Kudos to Iran for having more integrity than our Republicans.
"It was hard to imagine him allowing NATO, or a European ally, such latitude to determine how the United States should respond."
This is a ridiculous statement. If the UK was attacked with no US casualties, the NYTimes is saying that the UK would not be extensively consulted with regard to how the US would respond? It's not too hard to imagine not conferring with the attacked country first.
The NYTimes has extensively attacked President Trump for "going it alone" with regard to foreign policy. But now when Trump waits and consults with allies, you now claim that the US is losing its ability to act unilaterally. You can't have it both ways.
3
@Pat. Pat, if the UK were attacked we would be communicating with allies of long standing. With the Saudis we are communicating with a known murderer of a journalist, and whose country was home to 95pct of those who carried out the 9/11 attacks -- and who we have armed to the teeth to help them resolve these very kinds of issues. Yet, you want to treat this as if the UK were attacked? Sad.
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@Pat I think you missed the part about the US consulting with actual military allies (e.g Germany, France), not those T has supported such as SA and Israel. Do you feel that if we coordinated our attack with Bibi, that would show we are not going it alone.
President Trump’s obsequiousness to the Saudi royal family raises, again, the question of to whom does he owe his current and future financial position? For good measure, that question can also be asked of Jared Kushner. We have a thoroughly corrupt administration who’s sole purpose is to extract as much money as possible from all possible sources and to aggrandize themselves. This is all done at the expense and great detriment of America. Additionally, I am completely frustrated by the coverage of the attack as there seems to be an underlying assumption that the United States should be considering a military strike. While the US does have an interest in this, we were not attacked and it’s not as if there isn’t plenty of oil around; the price may go up marginally but there is supply. It seems as though the Saudis are ready to fight to the last American soldier for their defense. They Saudis have the third largest military budget in the world. If they want to defend themselves, they should. Mohammed Bin Salman (the murderous thug that he is) has put them in this position by having engaged in a war in Yemen that has now come home to roost. The lives of American servicemen are not poker chips at one of Trump’s failed casinos to be spent cavalierly.
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Seriously - Trump has no idea which way the wind is blowing. The thought that he would put our soldier’s lives at risk when he’s so uninformed is beyond horrifying. This is Iraq all over again, and the Republican senate just sits on their hands.
Anyone with an ounce of patriotism knows this is wrong.
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@Joe But, I don't see much opposition from the Democrats...they just fall in line and are as beholden to big money oil producers as anyone else.
How many Trump, and Kushner, properties are being propped up by Saudi “loans”?
Trump’s business model is based on debt. No legitimate bank, including now even Deutchebank, will do business with Trump. That leaves Russian oligarchs and the Saudi royal family with pockets deep enough, and both with a strong desire to steer American foreign policy.
Looking at Trump’s behavior toward both Russia and Saudi Arabia it’s almost impossible not to draw a single conclusion.
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With this seemingly compromised president, we enter dangerous territory. As the former under Secretary of State mentioned, Donald Trump as abased himself to the Royal House of Saud.
Imagine the Republican response had President Obama deigned to seek the advice of African and Muslim-majority nation’s before making a major foreign policy decision.
The hypocrisy and unpatriotic silence of Republicans here is astounding. The president’s supine posture before Mohammad bin Salman is unseemly in the extreme.
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@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18
Beautifully stated. The sense of unreality deepens daily.
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Just a couple of questions: Does the World really want Iran to have unchecked control of the Middle East and its strategic resources? If not, what proposals are suggested to counter it. After all, we are in a global economy.
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@bsb - Actually we might ask if the world really wants to have he US under Trump to have unchecked control og anything. Trump is a much bigger threat to US and world security than the Iranians could ever be.
BTW -- did you see where rump has threatened to leave the Universal Postal Union (UPU), a UN agency that allows for global postal service.
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@cec - You are correct. The only reason for that is that we have the most powerful military in the World. I do not see where Trump ever stated that he would like to see a sovereign country obliterated, as Iran has continually expressed about Israel. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Just curious, we are talking about Iran correct. Where did you come up with your last statement? Or do you want to have a debate about ALL things?
@bsb
I can't imagine Iran, or any single nation, being able to control that roiling quagmire of a region. And war never seems to work out, either.
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Just imagine how he thinks in private about his Russian financiers. This is what he says in public. Remember his concern about Chinese jobs? His praise of atheist dictators?
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This otherwise excellent piece misses the elephant in the room: Trump owns a property in Riyadh and has done a lot of business in Saudi Arabia. Given his greed, isn’t it possible, if not likely, Saudi Arabia has bribed Trump to do their bidding? Shouldn’t this possibility be at least mentioned when exploring Trump’s servility to the Saudi regime?
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@Demosthenes
If your insight was truly the "elephant in the room", Trump could have ended the trade war in China and Trump Inc. could have received a great corporate payout. Since that's not the case, why would we suppose that Trump working with the Saudis is any different than the consistently close relationship the US has maintained with the house of Saud since FDR?
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Trade , as in global markets, aren’t the same thing as a big money payout, or a big real-estate deal-sadly, the latter are the limits of Trump’s understanding of economics. The issue of global markets and trade with China won’t go away with a big pile of money.
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@Pat
What makes you think that he isn't angling for a personal financially beneficial payout in China. Some have speculated that he and his family and friends shorted stock after the tariff announcements potentially making a pile of cash. But as we know there is no transparency in this WH. We need to see trumps tax returns as a starter.
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Overwhelming economic import to who? The United States or to Trump himself?
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Would it even matter what POTUS said in regards to Iran? If he said retaliate, you would have called him a war monger. If he chooses to allow another wealthy sovereign to make their own choices, you call him weak. You completely ignored Saudi Arabia’s right to determine whether or not they want a protracted conflict with a neighbor that could have catastrophic effects on its people. You merely tried to advance your true own agenda.
The stark reality is that you hardly care about anything but tarnishing this President. That reckoning will come in November 2020.
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@Louis Molinari
YOU ignore the fact that our president considers policy in the middle of the night for his tweets.
We are governed by an insomniac who thinks with his gut. And our GOP Senate will have his back, not ours, in carrying out his "tweets" (snits, fever dreams, blurted out ill-considered thoughts) with our military...our tax payer money, our soldiers, our families.
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@Louis Molinari You misstated. It's fine to allow a sovereign to make their own choices. Trump explicitly suggested allowing a sovereign to make *our* own choices.
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@louis molinari did you even read the article? No ody is denying the right for the Saudis to defend themselves. But for the US to engage in was based on what the Saudis decide is outrageous. And Trump stated it was basically OK if all the Saudis did was pay us for spilling our own blood and treasure while. Why can't you Trump supporters get around the fact that he is completely unfit to serve as POTUS.
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Congress, not the Saudi monarchy, has the right to authorize American uses of force.
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@Z
Presidents of the U.S. have authorized the use of force many times without the approval of Congress. Congress has shirked its duties for decades, and presidential power has grown as a result. Unfortunately, Trump would not hesitate to authorize the use of power without congressional approval.
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That ship sailed a long time ago. Every last Republican is subservient to Trump.
The majority of informed Americans understand what this president and his followers can not grasp...that policy requires more than instincts and entertainment.
Trump has continued a pseudo-bellicose policy in foreign relations (think threats against N.Korea, China, and Mexico) without backing it up. Empty words and a quick run to the exits.
This is an administration unable to think one step ahead, let alone multiple ones. Think China tariffs and the economic fallout to American business.
And what do we see here? A perfect case study for an inability to signal policy.
1.) Iran attacks the main processing plant of the Saudis. A big event.
2.) The US answers this attack with initial effectiveness - e.g., the true actor was a state actor...and it was Iran.
3.) The president threatens Iran immediately. First major error. Think Kennedy and Cuban Missile Crisis. As dangerous as that was, the case was made slowly and conclusively....not with an immediate threat.
4.) The president then reverses course and international messaging by saying..."we will see what the Saudis think". This makes us look both weak and confused...like our commander in chief.
5.) The president further strengthens this message by saying, "I want to work with Iran"...rewarding the attack by effectively saying to the bully, stop hurting me - I will give you what you want."
Supporters are unable to grasp Trump's supreme failings. Pathetic. So much more to say, but NYT limitations preclude it.
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Of course, the US needs to consult with Saudi Arabia about the appropriate reaction to the attack on its oil installations. After all, Saudi Arabia was the direct target of the attack. But you don't say publicly that we have to wait to see what Saudi Arabia "tells us what to do." That is silly, imprecise and inappropriate language for a President or any other foreign policy official to use in a situation like this. But Trump thinks he knows better how to deal with these situations so he will keep displaying his ignorance of how to conduct foreign policy or act Presidential.
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Why does it take more intelligence to do be a janitor than be this president of the united states? We are supposed to fight a war for another country now?
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A former game show host making military decisions about starting a major war in the middle east. Joseph Heller could have written a terrific novel about a bumbling US president who is asking the Saudis, instead of his own intelligence, to advise him whether to bomb or not. Or maybe Lewis Carroll.
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Trump behaves like he is an asset of North Korea, Russia, sometimes China, Saudi Arabia, and other states. Since this would be impossible, even for him, the answer is that he wants to play the leading role in every case, every problem, every dispute, every activity -- because he deems himself God's gift to mankind. Do we really intend to put up with this much longer?
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With billions of $$ in American weapon (sold to them despite their horrific murder of Jamal Khashoggi), why has Trump put US forces under Saudi command? And have we forgotten that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi Arabians?
Trump promised that America would no longer be the World's policeman, but it appears that this only holds if he has no personal business entanglements. This is a major reason why we need to see his tax returns.
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@David Trump is surrounded by neo-cons who are champing at the bit to drag the US into a war with Iran. Bolton might be out, but Kushner et al are still inside the White House.
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This President is in over his head. He is completely lost with no principles to guide him. He has dismissed all his appointees in the cabinet that have any experience. Constantly pretending to be the tough guy and then backing down, he gives the impression that he can be pushed around. If he is not removed, at some point he will forced to act and then he will blunder into world war 3.
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Surely it can be left to the Saudis to deal with. We don’t even need the oil. We already made billions selling them weapons. We should disengage.
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We'll see. We'll let you know. We're looking into that. Many many people say . Who knows? Who knew?
THIS is how we are being governed, by someone who knows nothing, doesn't want to know anything, and is operating with less than a full deck, not to mention "acting" roles in high level positions. We deserve better.
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@JanTG
Not unless we vote for better.
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@JanTG
what would you want him to do? Trust Pompeo and Netanyahu and start sending missiles to Iran? Trump wants to know who done it. Is that unreasonable?
That there is nobody he can trust is not his fault. He hasn't drained the swamp yet.
@Joe43 That there is nobody Trump can trust speaks volumes about Trump’s mental health. He’s absolutely clueless, and couldn’t pick a competent advisor if his life depended on.
“Not his fault” is a great campaign slogan for Trump, though. It sums up the entire sad Trump story in three words.
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Why is it our job to retaliate when Yemen hits Saudi Arabia?
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@Sean Casey junior
Exactly the right question, even if we substitute "Iran" for "Yemen." Do we have a mutual-defense treaty with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?
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After having fired or alienated any advisor able and willing to give him sound objective advice, Trump is isolated, flailing, and lacking the discipline to keep his disorganized thoughts to himself.
Although he'll never admit it, he knows he doesn't have the fundamental understanding of the issues to plot a path forward. Deference to the Saudi's? He can't even trust Pompeo or Netanyahu, who Trump must sense will advocate retaliation against Iran with the possibility of offending his anti-war base.
It all started with the withdrawal from the JCPOA. Now he may finally realize that with his clueless decisions, he has been digging a bottomless hole that will lead him and the country into another endless mideast war.
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@Mark Randolph, exactly! And unfortunately this time around, I have a hard time seeing America’s traditional allies wanting to jump I to this conflict with a President who has berated and insulted them for the last three years!
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@Mark Randolph It is beyond his capabilities to realize anything. Your first paragraph sums it up.
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When will the American people know how much the Saudi royal family invests in Trump operations globally? Why don’t we know this info already? Our Democracy is now an Oligarchy and many innocent people will die because we have failed at upholding the feeble system of checks and balances laid out in the constitution. We are being led by a man with conflicted business positions, raging impulses and a cabinet full of subservience. This doesn’t end well for America. And no deposits will be returned to the Saudi’s by the trump organization....
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@MJKaz If the Saudis or Russians pull their loans to Trump, Inc., he goes bankrupt, once again.
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We are also led by a man who is easily impressed and manipulated by tyrants--the Saudis, Kim Jong Un, Putin, etc. Who can forget how Trump beamed as the Saudis let Trump touch their bizarre glowing orb?
Any reasonable person could see that the Saudis are trying to manipulate us to to step in and tilt their war with Yemen in their favor at our expense, but we are not led by a reasonable person.
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@MJKaz Trump and Kushner are both deeply involved with the Saudi royal family. MBS is calling in the note.
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America has sold the Saudis massive amounts of sophisticated, high-tech weaponry, more than enough to allow them to defend themselves. This is NOT our battle, but it is another compelling reason for us to move away from an oil-based economy, which Trump's GOP does not seem inclined to do. I'm sure Trump has myriad financial ties to the Saudis, which is one of the reasons (along with Russia) that he does not want his taxes examined. And let's not forget that most of the 9-11 hijackers were Saudis.
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@KenF And some condos...
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@KenF
I was wondering when someone would mention the arsenal that the Saudis have purchased from American weapons manufacturers. They have the tools, they have the resources, why don't they use them?
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So now we are a vassal state to Saudi Arabia. And here I thought it was Russia who was in charge.
Certainly we aren’t. There is no entity to counter Trump. We as a country are lost.
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@Yuri Pelham
Give the electorate some
credit for being the entity to counter Trump. We aren’t totally lost as a country.
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@Yuri Pelham: Don't give up; that's what The Enemy wants us to do. We can start fixing this by voting out all Republicans.
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