This is outrageous. You're trying to make it sound like it's a two-person race. Bernie Sanders is right up there with Biden and Warren. He's #1 in the latest New Hampshire poll, 8 points above Biden and 12 points above Warren -- but to you, he doesn't even exist.
This is journalistic malpractice. You're lying to your readers in the hopes of bringing about the outcome you want to see. What can a newspaper do that's worse than that?
5
You know what would be really interesting? If Bernie Sanders were running this year, and running strong right in the thick of things.
It would the be the Paper of Record's pleasure to highlight the three-way core debate among the three top candidates.
Which they'd surely do, because they wouldn't want to not-so-subtly thought-lead in their news articles by mostly-exclusion and -demotion.
6
Sen. Warren has even less management experience than did Obama. Hey, being President is a huge managerial job!
Warren has never had a single executive job; no experience as an elected executive official. Her only elected job is as a Senator & we all know how much they get done. Utopic ideas are easy to come up with. The hard part is to implement them & even harder, to pay for them.
Please Democrats, don't be seduced by pretty dreams.
And don't forget the imperative of sending Trump packing. He would make mince meat out of Warren.
2
Biden won't conduct a Sharpie war over a hurricane forecast, but his willingness to bend the truth to tell a better story are too worrisome after the current president. We need a candidate who honors the truth and fact-based governing.
5
@Luomaike please, Not a fair statement you said that Biden bent truth to tell a story. He attempted to convey a thought. It was Kamala Harris who bent the truth to tell her busing story. Hope you can understand the huge difference between people like Biden and Harris, to be able distinguish decency from disgrace. Biden is a decent person.
1
Biden leads Trump by 15 points among registered voters. Warren is polling the weakest among the 5 leading Dems, and trails. There's a good reason. Too many of her policies are naive and won't even pass among Democrats. From a policy standpoint, the party should move toward where Yang is, but Biden should be the nominee to remove the existential threat of Trump.
3
@Keith when warren referred Michael brown as murder, she turned away many independent and moderate Republicans. I admire Warren in many ways, however, some of her views are biased and too extreme — I cannot support any candidate who ignores the factual data and truth for her ideology.
1
Misogyny robbed Hillary Clinton of victory in 2016. Certainly, the Russians didn't help, but there is an ugly dynamic running through the American zeitgeist which must be faced: America is not all that fond of it's female citizenry.
Think #Me Too. Think about the ongoing Byzantine attempts to do away a woman's right to choose whether or not to be pregnant. Think about electing a president who bragged about indulging in sexual assault. These few examples, and many more, point to a culture at war with itself on a most basic level.
Misogyny, not Biden, not Sanders, is Warren's most implacable political foe. It sits waiting for her like an IED at the side of the road leading to the Oval Office.
I hope Ms. Warren has a plan for that.
3
Senator Warren I hope you read the NYTimes and the comments section.
We are a majority of seriously intelligent and engaged voters here with an array of views!
My advice tonight..... show your expertise and award winning debaters ability when speaking and answering and clarifying and counter arguing.
Tell the moderators when they are not enhancing the ability of each candidate to answer well and thoroughly.
Elizabeth you must Smack down Joe Biden tonight. Once and for all to see.
You are a high energy woman in her 70’s with no slowness of thought or inability to articulate your platform and policies.
Biden should not be on that podium at all. We have a cult of trump filled with white supremists and rabid racists.
But Black voters have a cultish behavior toward Biden. He isn’t the ONE to bring back Obama’s vision. Obama couldn’t deliver for the Black / Brown / other dreamers and he never admitted his failures and caused trump.
Elizabeth you must smack down Biden as severely as you will smack down trump when and if you get there.
Be aware as well that trump will be watching and if you succeed in winning and he agrees to an election and agrees to debating ;his first action will be to destroy your credibility with outright lies
and if that doesn’t work then maybe the voters have a sliver of a chance to have a woman president.
Amy Klobuchar should be your running mate and every other woman running should get an appointed post in your administration.
trump u r Toast!!!
3
For those interested in Biden's record, here are some facts, with quotes and sources identified. It is very different from the spin put out by the Biden campaign and frame of media. see:
https://www.rootsaction.org/storage/documents/BidenFactSquadLeaflet.pdf
12
Joe Biden is just another old, rich white man who believes that he is entitled to be President. His shameful treat of Anita Hill disqualifies him from the Democratic nomination.
19
@Common ground
Biden's appalling performance during the confirmation of Chief Justice Clarence Thomas - put him on the Supreme Court and did an awful injustice to Anita Hill.
I hope senator Warren addresses this serious issue with Biden. Go Senator Warren.
8
If one ony read this article, one would believe that the debate tomorrow will only feature Warren and Biden fighting it out. It's so much easier to talk endlessly about the horse race with just 2 in it, but, as you know, that's not what's happening. Even if you're going to use the polls as justification about who to focus on, which is in itself anti-democratic this early in the nomination process, there is a clear one and two tier ranking in the polls. Bernie, Warren, and Biden are in the top tier. Also, Bernie has advocated big, structural change for 30 years. It is he who should be credited with changing the conversation in the democratic party from Clinton incrementalism on the same basic issues to bringing in radical, structural change and serious discussion about other important issues: college debt, climate change, the "justice system", and most importantly, the need to fundamentally change our politics by including and inspiring greater participation in our so-called democracy.
6
Revamping this rig economy for the 21 century which for the first time will be open to all will need the kick start of savage economics and the two brains that will outline the path to get us there. So if you are a parent worried about your kids, if you are worried about aging, future climate changes, worried about cancer, water, your health, guns, food quality, please listen to Warren/Yang and vote.
3
The people here concerned that Sanders and other candidates are being overlooked appear to be uninformed about the history between Warren and Biden. Her expertise is in consumer protection and bankruptcy and these are the issues about which she is most passionate. She testified before Congress in 2005 regarding the bankruptcy legislation that was later implemented. Biden spoke to her in a condescending way at the hearing, and he was on the wrong side of an issue that affects the working class of all races.
5
I would be glad to have Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar or several other Democrats running for President.
I - and many others - will vote for ANYONE other than Trump for President!
6
This commentary tends to demonstrates the feeble character of the American political scene - the 'loyal opposition' trying to edge as close as possible to the reactionary Republican standpoint, (especially Biden) while playing the image game. It harkens back to the what we can expect as the electorate is herded into the polls and recalls a song :"I'm looking over a four leaf clover that I've overlooked before, ...Truman or Dewey - the same old hooey, again and again and more..."(to be sung to the tune of 'The four-leaf clover.") Whatever the outcome we'll get the best president that money can buy. I don't know why the Times doesn't feature an editorial category called: The Buying of the President.
6
Andrew Yang is the future. Both Biden and Warren are stuck in the 20th century.
2
@Anthony Maybe Warren can't win but for sure Yang can't. Support Warren, Yang gets a significant cabinet post.
5
The NYT is written by and for the elitist Democrats. They’ll be rooting for Biden. Bernie is already yesterday’s news and Liz will soon be disparaged. Watch it happen.
4
@Hjb
This plebeian likes Biden.
2
I'm already tired of all the hype about Biden, Warren, and Sanders. Once again they'll be in the center of the stage
and get all of the attention and undoubtedly extra speaking time and press coverage. In the meantime, other viable and interesting candidates are shoved to the side. All because polls and money rule the day. Why aren't the candidates
placed randomly? Why is the press setting this up as a three
way debate? Why does the Democratic leadership allow this?
7
The United States does not deserve Elizabeth Warren
2
Black Americans, Hispanics, Middle Class Whites, and Non College Blue Collars will never go for either Warren or Sanders.
Since both Harris and Booker are both arrogant, mean people, neither will get close to the nomination or be chosen vice president. That leaves Good Old Joe and hopefully Duval Patrick for a winning ticket to oust Trump.
5
@william matthews As a middle class white person, I have to disagree. Bernie and Elizabeth are my first and second choice.
10
@william matthews
I am also a "Middle Class White" and I whole-heartedly support Elizabeth Warren.
Think big and fight for the right things.
7
@william matthews how about Asian Americans? As far as I know, most support Biden!
Even Biden's handlers admit he can't think on his feet. So just what part of his body do they expect him to use tomorrow night?
6
I know I won't be the first to say it, but the Times is carrying on it's malpractice regarding Bernie. Warren's plans are essentially Bernie's plans, and he has had them a lot longer. Were it not for all the shenanigans by the Republican party, abetted by the DNC and the media, Bernie would be president and we would be a much better off nation. But the Times has once again put Bernie in the dustpin. This is what you call fair and unbiased reporting? Gimme a break.
17
It’s been becoming clearer day by day that the NYT is backing Warren, which is the best reason yet for not supporting her.
8
will Joe ask Liz to go easy on him?
4
If looking like an overenthusiastic nun was all that was necessary to win the Democratic nomination, then Liz, you're it. Time for Elizabeth Warren to explain fully her MedicareForAll plan. It's absent from her website. What exactly are her supporters supporting? Fire-bombing Wall St. her first day in office? Imagine if Bernie woke up one day, felt the way the wind was blowing and decided he was all in with Blue Cross and Cobra. You have a lot of "plans", Senator. How about revealing, and sticking with, the one plan you think will be best for the health and well-being of the country.
3
Headline: I am rooting for a Booker-Butigege ticket.
Here is why. Even the dumbest, last kid admitted to Harvard, and in Warren's classes, is several magnitudes smarter than I am. Warren is from this realm; where as she speaks, the cerebral cortex of every listener fires up. They see the context fully, they get the connections, they draw the same implications, and go: hmmmm. What with her insights into structural changes, intricate understanding of causal linkages associated with bankruptcies, and thoughts on consumer protection and bank frauds.
I.e., she will turn away every single one of today's Trumpite who otherwise may have found a reason to vote against him.
If she survives the primary; first off Trump will destroy her as Pocahontas. The hysterical right wing media will paint her as a cerebral poser with no credentials with coal miners. I marvel that she makes herself vulnerable to pure, unmitigated politics of destruction that will be unleashed on her. She has my undying love and respect.
Uncle Joe? What can you say about him. Kinder, gentler, bumbling, will be harder to plain destroy. Even the bearded pot bellied dude with the AR13, a bible, a dead bambi, and a day's supply of meth in his pick up truck may hesitate to unload his vitriol on Unc Joe. Momentarily. Not enough to get the vote.
Booker-Butigege ticket wins because Trump cannot destroy them. The right wing media can take its best shot to no avail.
4
So you're planning on ignoring facts that your own paper reported on, that Joe Biden is an admitted plagiarist, claimed he didn't know how to properly cite sources even when already in law school, and then tried to gain the Presidency by quoting JFK's Inauguration speech and another very famous speech by his brother? At what point do we decide that Joe is a fraud? That he doesn't seem to know the kind of detail a true policy wonk would have memorized? That sending his wife out to tell us we're going to have to 'swallow' should have been the last, biggest gaffe of all? Just because he smiles broadly and keeps up his 'I'm just regular middle class Joe' schtick even though he's a millionaire, at what point are YOU going to realize, he's Republican lite, not a Democrat at all?
14
I think saying Joe is a republican is way over the top, out of line with reality.
2
Will "moderate" Democrats be dismayed by Biden's obvious intellectual limitations? Probably not. More likely they'll be put off by Warren's brilliance.
Even Biden's handlers admit he can't think on his feet. So maybe he'll use some other part art of his body tomorrow night.
2
This all seems an exercise in futility. If Sanders or Warren win the White House, current Republican control of the Senate will bar all of their progressive agendas, and I doubt that the democrats will gain control of the Senate any time soon. Furthermore, even if they managed to eke out a victory and control the Senate, their agenda would have to surmount the 60 vote threshold to avoid a filibuster. This may tempt a democratic senate leader to eliminate the filibuster, but that will come back to haunt the democrats when Republicans regain control in the future. That's the biggest mistake by Reid when he eliminated the filibuster for judges, which got the ball rolling for the Republicans.
So, I really wish these progressive candidates would present proposals that are realistic given McConnell's control. It's a waste of time and energy to blather on and on about Medicare for all, decriminalizing the border, reparations, health care for illegals, and all the other free goodies that will never be implemented even if they win. All this does is provide ammunition for the Republicans, who only need to replay clips from the debates and not spend a penny on advertising.
Given the electoral college map, the only states that matter are Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, and perhaps Florida (though probably a lost cause). We have to attract independents who have abandoned Trump in those states.
3
An inspirational candidate and another year of Trump could bring out a tidal wave of never before seen voters that could take the Senate for dems, keep the House, and elect a democratic President. I think there's a high probability of this happening. People are waking up.
3
Retailers have noted a significant drop in the sales of Melatonin attributed to a combination of the Democratic candidates, their media coverage and the debates.
2
@Mark Shyres
Ha Ha.
1
@Mattie
Thanks (I think).
It ia amazing tome how the NYT continues to ignore Bernie Sanders and promote "anyone but Bernie" for president. That is because they are all reliably corporate Democrats--except Bernie who is the only genuine one who is actually for leveling the playing field and protecting the interests of the traditional Democratic base. You watch,as soon as Elizabeth Warren has won the nomination she will accept corporate money and be beholden to the corporations who donate to her just as Hilary was. Many of the Democratic base got it that it would be "business as usual" under a second Clinton presidency and that they would lose ground yet again. Corporate Democrats helped create the Trump presidency.
23
Im not going to go another election cycle constantly furious at NYT for consciously ignoring the candidates it doesn't like, and underreporting on the people it didnt like. We got absolutely blindsighted last time because those that read NYT didnt understand Trump country, because NYT doesnt ask them questions, just preaches to the choir. And even though Sanders consistently beat Trump in polls where those were the options, NYT chose to act as though he didn't exist, as its doing now. NYT has fallen to a point where it is doing more harm than good to the country's political environment. All just to say that I just unsubscribed. A weekly economist article (or any other suggestion you may have) will be more useful in getting us prepared.
10
Here come the media telling us before the debate what we should think about what we are going to see and hear; then they will show us...then they will tell us what we saw and heard.
8
@Ardyth Be glad that the media provides a baseline for thinking. After reading and hearing some comments, you have to be a little nervous about the voters out there who don't know a thing about the candidates, e.g., those who chose Trump. There is free will, and people are allowed to think their own thoughts. That's always been true, even in totalitarian regimes.
I question the wisdom that Joe Biden appeals to disaffected voters who switched from Obama to Trump in 2016. I don’t know what Biden stands for, except a return to some vague idea of ‘the Obama years’, without detail of what that means exactly. Hilary’s campaign positioned her as an extension of said Obama years, and she was rejected by those same voters that we are now told Biden is said to appeal to. I question that. And apart from this idea of his appeal to those voters, I honestly don’t know where Biden stands on almost issues. He comes across as wishy washy.
16
Of course Bernie and Poco are much better alternatives for defeating President Trump?
No, they’ll go with ole Red Eye!
Ready for five more years?
@E Hillary wasn't rejected. She won by the popular vote by 3 million people, which is saying a lot considering how unpopular she was.
1
Several complaints that Bernie is not mentioned. In the prior debates , he was match once against each of Biden and Warren. The point of the story is that this is the first time that Warren and Biden will face each other.
Beyond that, the Big Story about Bernie is that Warren has passed him in some polls and that his numbers are stagnant.
That is about the only current story for Bernie, aside from the fact that he still has zero minority support.
5
While that is ostensibly the "point of the story" the author goes on to claim that what is significant about this debate is how "the tensions" between progressive and centrist democratic voters will be "laid bare" in the confrontation between Warren and Biden. Framing the significance of the debate in this way makes it seem that Warren is the standard bearer of progressive values, when as we know there is another candidate (Sanders) who is competitive with these two and who arguably is more representative of progressive values than Warren. After all, as another commentator has pointed out, it is also the first time that Warren, Sanders, and Biden will be on stage together, so why not frame the story in that way? @Lefthalfbach
17
@Lefthalfbach Bernie leads the polls in NH and close to three of the other four early primary states.
And Bernie has the largest support among urban voters, voters under 30 and women. Bernie has the least white base.
https://www.people-press.org/2019/08/16/most-democrats-are-excited-by-several-2020-candidates-not-just-their-top-choice/pp_2019-08-16_2020-democratic-candidates_0-06/
14
While I am likewise not entirely sure how Erik's point about urban voters necessarily equates to "minority support," Politco and MSNBC, among others, have reported just this month that Biden and Sanders are currently leading in support among black voters. Lefthalfbach's claim that Bernie has "zero minority support" thus seems rather disingenuous. @Eyes Wide Open
2
Warren has been my favorite from the beginning but I fear her “ Medicare for All “ as the only choice rather than the Medicare for All “buy in “ option will be red meat for Trump to eviscerate her as an irrational socialist destined to ruin the country . Maybe she can moderate her views for a general election but I for one can’t take that chance . I’m still all in for Biden .
3
I believe that Warren represents the best future for our country. I just can't get confident about Biden. He folds so easily under pressure, and pressure is the atmosphere of Washington. We need someone who is sharp as a tack and can plan ahead. Biden just keeps attacking Trump or referring back to the fact that he was Obama's, right-hand man. I want facts and figures. Warren has those.
Oh, and by the way... what about Sanders?! No mention at all. What's up with that?
16
From the beginning the plan, with the cooperation of the major news organizations, was the nullification of the unthinkable candidacy of Bernie Sanders. The dogged pursuit of this plan continues and will continue until the nomination of anyone but as the Democratic candidate and the probable reelection of Donald Trump.
17
Biden VS. Bernie?
11
The NYT picks Elizabeth Warren as the progressive liberal standard bearer? Why?
Did you forget Sanders, whose policies Ms. Warren lifted, is still in the race? Sanders easily qualified for the debates.
It has been a shock to me to live to see those mainstream FDR policies that helped the poor, the middle class, the average citizen, the we and the us of the United States, defined as a plague of socialism, and bad for the country. Sanders has professed his FDR mainstream policies his whole life, and he was early on the civil rights bus, getting arrested with SNCC in Chicago, while Warren, ala Hillary, started off as a moderate republican to the right of Eisenhower.
It is enough to make one think the NYT is again meddling in the democrat's primary and anointing the winner before voting begins. Ah, so 2016.
Vote for the working and middle classes, vote for Bernie.
us army 1969-1971/california jd
35
Huh? Warren and Bernie are dead even. Why did the Times decide that this was a Warren vs. Biden debate? Given what happened in 2016, when the DNC put its finger on the scale against Bernie, I'd think the Times might be more careful about this kind of bias. I like both Warren and Bernie. Either can demolish Biden in a debate... I hope that either can crush Trump in a debate.
20
This headline gives the inaccurate impression that only two candidates will debate. The decision to run this article is unfair to NYT readers and to the eight other candidates who will be on that stage.
20
Everytime Warren says 'Free', one should take a shot. Probably won't make it through the first 10 minutes of this debate.
3
@Scott I did that every time Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall. Didn't make it through the first five minutes.
I'll just ote Dylan who put it perfectly : "This article is yet another installment in the media blackout of Bernie Sanders, especially in the NYT. You'd never know from articles like this that the Democratic race is close to a tie among three in many polls. Bernie was dismissed relentlessly in 2016 in these pages and that pattern continues. Why? Quite likely implicit bias among the media class. An Emerson Poll in July revealed that only 4% of Bernie's supporters earn more than $100k per year. All other candidates came in at 18% and above. Bernie speaks to the masses and our corporate media does not wish to."...agreed...totally...
17
i find it very strange that your discussion is about Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren when Bernie Sanders is leading both of them in the latest polling....
i listened to NPR the other day and they had an hour long special on New Hampshire and they also never mentioned Mr Sanders.
He has been complaining that there is a movement in the media to ignore his candidacy and you are proving he has reason to feel that way. this is acceptable in the opinion section, but i expect better from the news in the NYT or has the news become entirely opinion and bias.
23
@frank
NPR and the Times both ignored Bernie in 2016, and they should not get away with doing it again!
10
@frank. Bernie isn’t leading anyone.
1
@frank Bernie supporters are deluded, much like Trump supporters. These true believers tanked Hillary's chances. Warren has the ability to bridge the gap between progressives and moderates, and appeal to middle America. Once again, the only role Bernie has is to play is the spoiler, and hand Trump re-election. If Sanders had any real concern to advance a progressive agenda and defeat Trump, he would withdraw and throw his support to Warren, saving the Democratic party from the anemic and aged Biden, who will be chewed up by Trump. Will he do it? I am not holding my breath.
1
"tensions will remain bare" said the headline in the NYT. It's comments by media like that one that divide and weaken. Democrats should be calm and considerate of each others' positions and explain them without histrionics. The worst thing they can do is rise to the bait thrown out by media which loves conflict and attention as much as trump does. Biden, Warren. Ignore the bait. Praise each other. Get trump OUT.
1
Neither candidate can beat Trump. I live deep in Trump country, and it's going to take more than these two candidates to beat him.
5
@Chris
God Almighty could not beat Trump in Louisiana. Biden will crush him in Pennsylvania, one of the three states that we must win back.
3
My mind says we need a centrists; my heart wants a progressive---The problem Binden will have tonight, is Warren will exaggerate his shortcomings---which, of course he will try to correct---which, will begin a downward spiral, with Warren, looking very competent and the Vice President...well...not ready for prime time.
2
@Amanda Jones - After studying the profiles & platforms today of all ten candidates, I’m thinking Amy Klobuchar is my candidate. She’s not quite as centrist as Biden and is a much better public speaker. Minnesota has loved her despite the fact they voted red in 2016. And she’s under seventy. Buttigieg has been dropping in the polls, too, but he would be my second choice. He’s intelligent, articulate and, while not a moderate, has a platform that is a compromise between the liberals and moderates. Warren, and even more so, Sanders have been branded as Socialists which would eliminate any chance of garnering the votes of the Independents and the anti-Trump Republicans. Just my two cents worth.
Dear NYT: Don't tell us what to expect - we can think for ourselves. Stop making these debates about tension and who is going to attack who. Encourage a format that allows the candidates enough time to express their views. Let's have a debate - please stop encouraging a food fight. The viewers don't want it and deserve better.
14
This will be comedy gold. Biden’s gaffes will be legendary.
6
Trump’s penchant for fighting is what makes me think he won’t be able to govern. Simply to polarizing a force.
( pardon the plagiarism, couldn’t help it)
Questions for Warren and Bernie: How could you ever possibly win the electoral college? How do you rate your chances of winning Florida.
Question for Warren: Between decriminalizing running the border and only deporting violent felons (maybe) do you not in fact favor open borders.
Question for Klobuchar: How would you win the electoral college. How would you rate your chances of winning Florida.
Question for Klobuchar: How would you extend a hand to a Trump voter standing on the ledge of the political skyscraper to bring him in from the abyss.
4
It' would've been more even handed if this article had matched the "worries" some voters and party officials have about Elizabeth Warren's "ability to appeal to the broad electorate" with concerns some voters and party activists have about Joe Biden being a corporate sell out, that Biden reliably dog whistles to his corporate sponsors that they don't have to worry about him doing any of the "progressive" things he's talking about on the campaign trail, and that his record of serving the banks and credit card on bankruptcy reform is a major bone of contention between Biden and Ms. Warren. And that Biden's record as a corporate tool may depress turn out among the party's base.
What this article looks like the way it is written is that the writer "discovered" the "concerns" of "some voters" to give voice to the writer's own prejudices and concern.
2
I hope that the Democrats avoid the “circular firing squad” tomorrow night and concentrate their aim against Trump and not Obama or each other. Trump must be defeated because as The English statesman, William Pitt, once said: WHERE LAW ENDS, TYRANNY BEGINS. Trump is the personification of tyranny.
4
I sure hope that the dull moderate who can defeat the fool Trump wins the debate, and not the oh-so exciting revolutionary who would lose to Trump.
Please, Democrats, the time for revolution has not come. It is essential that you beat Trump. Once you've done that, we can consider revolution, although you will have to make a strong case for that -- later.
First, win the election. Please.
4
Sanders won 23 state primaries in 2016. HRC lost to Trump even after having chosen an identical center-right corporatist as her running mate. In other words, Centrism loses. Of the 200 million registered voters in 2016, 65 million went for HRC, 62.5 million went for Trump and the biggest block of all stayed home. Biden is the radical, dangerous choice.
3
@Perrin Lam - Sanders is now 77 years old & Biden is 76 with the election more than a year away. As someone in her mid sixties, i’m Looking for a little younger candidate. That said, I will vote for whoever is nominated and hope that, unlike in 2016, all Democrats will too. The Sanders comments are worrying me that that may not happen again.
Wonderful, NYTimes political reporters. To "prepare" us for tomorrow's debate and choosing our presidential candidate, you offer us a video with this title:
"How Warren and Biden Split on Health Care, Immigration and the Economy."
No mention of the issue that dwarfs all others:
Our suicidal spiraling toward death of our civilization and all or most of our species, from destruction of conditions for human life on Earth.
Instead, diversion of the candidates' focus and ours to other issues, steering us into arguments about everything else as we pass the point of no return for survival of our youngest and their descendants.
That is like rearranging deck chairs as our ship of human life on Earth goes down.
11
I will go out on a limb. That is my name and address, not a fake handle. Senator Warren may well permanently injure VP Biden's candidacy. As a former bankruptcy professor at Penn and Harvard she will easily be able to paint him as a tool of the financial industry, because he has been for most of career including as VP. As a professor from Harvard Law, one of the few institutions using the Socratic method of teaching, she should be able to tie him in knots on virtually any issue.
As a disclaimer, I note that I have a JD from Harvard Law 1975. I have never met Senator Warren. I was a corporate bankruptcy partner in the NYC offices of 3 of the largest law firms in the world for 25 years. In that capacity I did attend one small breakfast of 6 persons for about 1.5 hours. Then Senator Biden was a participant.
3
I expect weak questions with inadequate time for meaningful answers. They should stick to town halls.
5
You know, Bernie Sanders is running too and is competitive with them both. Since it will be the first time all three of them will be on stage together, perhaps that would be a fairer way to frame it?
22
No infighting among Republicans.
The latest poll from the Boston Herald shows Trump ahead of Bill Weld by 85 points in the Republican Hew Hampshire primary. They love him up there.
Remarkable when you consider that Bill was once Governor of neighboring Massachusetts.
“I think what’s going to carry us as Democrats is not playing it safe,” she said."
We do not have time to incrementally fight our way back to 'normal'. We have now an opportunity to power through change "the political realities" of Beltway politics.
We need to forget about any idea of this being "Biden's turn" or "Bernie's time". I like all of the front runners, and some of the back benchers.
But keeping within the parameters offered by this piece, if it is anyone's time, it is ours, the voting majority of this country that got burned in 2016.
It is the People's time. It is women's time. It is human rights time. It's time to show we care about our children and their future.
It is Elizabeth Warren's time.
3
@Skeexix
Elizabeth Warren's time? That's odd, because after backing corporate Hilary against Bernie, Elisabeth Warren has suddenly gotten more progressive and has tried to profit from the hard battles Bernie fought for the candidacy in 2016.
Bernie is a committed street fighter. Only Bernie would win against Trump. Warren will take corporate money and become another Hillary, a servant of corporate masters,and will go down for the same reasons Hillary did, she's another corporate Democrat.
5
@fragilewing
Hillary's not running. And we've all been profiting from Bernie Battles ever since he started battling.
If you're looking for 'divide-and-conquer' style in-fighting you've picked the wrong guy.
You think I wouldn't be fine with Bernie?
Then you didn't read what I wrote. How come?
2
Warren formulated a plan for consumer protection, fought for it and implemented it in the form of CFPB. If you don’t know what you want to accomplish, you cannot fight for it. People who do not understand the issues can’t be good on their feet. Biden trying to win the nomination the old fashion way, viz., on style and not on substance. This is an important debate, I urge everyone listen carefully what Biden was saying and what Warren saying. You will find out Biden talks without saying anything.
4
Why isn't Sanders mentioned?
Warren and Biden both do a great job of masking the fact that they want to uphold and embolden an archaic system that allows for and enables oppression of people for profit (endless war, private prisons, unchecked advertisements [think big pharma, alcohol], etc.).
At MOST Warren and Biden want a slow ween away from those types of oppressive actions, or at least claim to want to move the country that way. Their hearts might be in the right place, but they are privileged and out of touch with reality.
Bernie Sanders, does not believe people should be oppressed for profit.
The purpose of this article isn't to get you the truth, it's to get you thinking that the real contestants are Warren and Biden and away from Bernie; because at the end of the day, Bernie is bad for business.
19
The premise of the article seems to be that tomorrow's debate will be significant insofar as we will see the progressive candidate (Warren) and the centrist candidate (Biden) confronting each other, i.e the "tensions will be laid bare" between the progressive and centrist democratic camps...yet not even a mention of Sanders who is the most progressive candidate by far, whose plans for affordable college, addressing climate change, medicare for all, and his foreign policy positions all outstrip the "progressiveness" of Warren's positions.... The truth anyway is that in any other country Warren herself would be considered a middle of the road centrist. Whether you like him or not, you have to admit the Time's seems to be giving particularly short shrift to Bernie's campaign.
11
Good article. I'm excited and cannot wait for the debate.
I hope Senator Warren makes it clear to former Vice-President Biden that his appalling performance during the confirmation of Cheif Justice Clarence Thomas - put him on the Supreme Court and did an awful injustice to Anita Hill.
It's pay back time for Biden. Go Senator Warren & win.
2
Biden is not the man for the job at this time in human history. Be that as it may, he most certainly has already been declared the candidate to go up against Trump, both by the DNC and by the mainstream liberal media. It cannot be otherwise, in spite of mountains of evidence showing that massive change must take place in order to ensure survival of all who inhabit planet earth. We’d rather vote for another candidate with a D beside their name on the ballot, but if it has to be Joe we shall firmly clamp a clothespin on our noses and vote Trump out. It won’t be enough, but the system is rigged against us, has always been thus, and ever shall be so.
2
I've read Warren's books and believe she would be a great President. I'm just nervous she may not be able to win those critical swing states that anointed Trump in 2016. Current polls show she is very weak among non-college educated, working class voters.
If the nominee turns out to be Biden, I'll gladly support him. IMO, the ticket that would win big is Biden/Harris. During the debates my hope is the candidates will show solidarity by going after Trump, not each other.
8
@Mark McIntyre
Harris would be an albatross to the Democrats just as Palin was for the Republicans. Any informed Democrat voter- especially those from California - would not vote for Harris. There are plenty of better candidates - including women candidates - than Harris.
5
@Mark McIntyre
Strange. Where I live most Republicans have Bachelors & or Masters degrees. Suburban Texas is Red. The uneducated vote blue.
1
@Mark McIntyre That's not likely to happen. The two have such vastly different ideas about governing that it's unlikely they would form a working relationship. And besides that, Warren is unlikely to risk the hard won credibility she has gained with the party's progressive wing by attaching herself to an establishment candidate whose campaign is just as likely to fail as Clinton's was. Sanders veritably didn't go that route in 2016, and as a result he lives to fight another day. So it goes with Warren; if Biden loses, that leaves 2020 open to her.
1
Warren crowds are Hilary crowds. College educated white women. She has to narrow a base. She’ll get crushed.
24
@Paul Nonsense. Hillary's crowds were subdued and appeared to be planted and rehearsed. Both Trump and Sanders drew the delirious, enthusiastic and spontaneous mobs of followers. Add to that, there is no difference between Biden and Clinton at all except for the most obvious, their genders.
1
I don't get it. We have already had a debate where two candidates with contrasting styles and policies have been up against each other: Biden and Bernie (the candidate that shall not be named). They are the top two polling dem candidates and the standard bearers for the centrist vs. progressive stances. Although I'm happy to have Warren also debating Biden I'm not sure why that's any more special than Bernie debating Biden.
35
Its a strategy to split the progressive vote. The aim is to make Warren, who I don't think is terrible but who realistically in any other context would be considered a corporate centrist, appear to be the "standard bearer" (as you put it) of progressiveness in order to delegitimize the actual progressive candidate, painting him as too far left, radical, ect. @grusilag
11
@grusilag
Because this is part of the MSM's bogus narrative that Warren is somehow more progressive than Sanders (despite her policies not being nearly as progressive or expansive as his) and is a more "serious" candidate (despite consistently polling behind him, raising less money and having a much smaller donor base).
10
the best attack she can possibly execute on Joe Biden is no attack at all. Every time Joe Biden speaks he loses 5K voters. Let him open his mouth, lose his train of thought, come across as rehearsed, seem old. The camera is not even his friend. He looks like a melting ball of play-doh and makes you immediately think of death when you look at him. He is not presidential material, he is more retirement home material--everyone who has been paying attention to the race know that--Biden's biggest strength to date in the race is that no one is paying attention.
She should not attack him, just continue to make a good impression for himself. If he attacks her, she should show him who is boss, but she has no reason to attack him. Let one of the desperate candidates sully themselves and him. Biden fades a little each time people watch him. He is simply too old. He is not a threat, and his polls will continue to steadily decline until they reach a point of critical mass where the electibility argument is no longer a useful or arguable illusion that he can argue.
Warren just needs to stay positive, be hopeful, and stay on her toes. Only attack those who attack you, but if they attack you, curb stomp them. People respect that--and if everyone fears attacking you because they know what will happen that also benefits you as well.
Warren's got this. 50% chance Biden drops out before Iowa. At a certain points his surrogates will jump ship. Let it happen organically.
21
@nickgregor
I agree somewhat. However, Senator Warren needs to bring to Biden's attention that his appalling performance during the confirmation of Chief Justice Clarence Thomas - put him on the Supreme Court and did an awful injustice to Anita Hill.
2
I like your analysis!!
This article is yet another installment in the media blackout of Bernie Sanders, especially in the NYT. You'd never know from articles like this that the Democratic race is close to a tie among three in many polls. Bernie was dismissed relentlessly in 2016 in these pages and that pattern continues. Why? Quite likely implicit bias among the media class. An Emerson Poll in July revealed that only 4% of Bernie's supporters earn more than $100k per year. All other candidates came in at 18% and above. Bernie speaks to the masses and our corporate media does not wish to.
75
@Dylan
I too was wondering what happened to Bernie. Biden, Warren, and he are far ahead of all the other candidates in the polls.
9
The debates really are a joke. It's entertainment meant for high TV ratings, not to help Americans learn about the candidates and where they stand on the issues. 60-90 seconds is not enough time to discuss complex issues.
If you list to Brian Lehrer on WNYC he lets his guests talk for as long as they need. Then he asks probing questions. This is what we need.
There should have been 2 debates with 5 candidates. The moderators need to stop trying to create fights or ask stupid, irrelevant questions. It's just theater, but this is how politics works today. No wonder we have an incompetent reality TV star for president.
28
@Eric And the League of Women Voters should run them as in the past - these debates run by CNN et. al. are promoted like the WWF.
32
Let's hope for civility and a fair and honest exchange of ideas.
Mudslinging, , snide comments, blatant discourtesy- all play into Republican hands.
6
Warren's going to run her mouth about all the things she plans on giving the American people but not how she intends to pay for it. Middle class Joe's going to enumerate about all the things he thinks he did then retract/revise the stories Friday morning. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
9
@Kurt Pickard Warren is very clear about how to pay for things.
4
Sanders? Biden, Sanders, and Warren have been the Trio at the Top this whole time.
Come on NYT, ignoring Sanders is a disservice to your readers and your reputation.
76
The Media would love to present the Democratic contenders as gladiators whetting the Audience’s lust for blood & gore. Yet the Contenders must show the Mature Leadership to strongly Respect each other & Reject any indication of pulling down fellow Democrats. Each & every Contender must use the opportunity to show how best they can Present & Carry Conviction before the American people their Agenda of the Democratic Party. Democrats respecting fellow Democrats & Americans respecting fellow Americans is the only way forward for Democracy in USA.
4
Mark your calendar. September 12, 2019, the day the Democrats gave away the election to Trump.
11
Bernie Sanders is the most authentic, honest politician in America today.
Liz is cool too.
Biden is a ghost.
There is no other way to say it.
Liz, go for the jugular
12
@New World
Where is Mr. Authentic going to come up with the $16 trillion for his climate change plan?
1
Relax. We have a strong team of democratic candidates, each of whom could admirably serve as our next president. Do NOT get caught up in tearing each other down -- stay focused on attacking Trump. Who ends up on the ticket is less important than sending a clear message -- we will finally provide good government, that people can trust. Not a corrupt, mindless autocracy which shreds treaties, abuses friends, despoils our environment, and stokes racial hatred as a method of holding power. Now, that said, I'm hoping for a Biden/Warren ticket (either order).
27
@PT
Trump spent most of his debate time during the primaries denigrating his fellow Republican candidates and they did their best to attack him.
That infighting sure didn't seem to have any effect on his becoming president.
4
Are you joking ? Sleepy Biden? Trump will demolish him. Biden’s running because he was asked to, not cause he really wants to. It’s so apparent. He has 0 passionate in his supporters.
It’s Andrew Yang or bust. He’s the fire candidate. The only one with 21st century ideas and solutions. Wake up people. These old dem candidates have 0 support from independents and libertarians.
1
@Anthony...Andrew Yang can't win. Period.
1
I love Warren, but I'm going to stick with the person who has always spoken for the poor, working and middle classes over the oligarchs. That person is Bernie Sanders. He is a champion for those without a voice. In the end, I'll vote for whomever is running against Trump. We must unite to rid the stain he has brought upon our country.
67
@Sue Salvesen Warren has always done that as well. Bernie is just more strident about it. And, I think, less appealing.
3
@Sue Salvesen I voted for Bernie in the primaries in 2016. But even then, I worried he came across as old and a bit one-note. I worry about his health and stamina. I would choose him over Biden, but I trust Warren to go the distance.
6
@Fairway
Warren backed Hillary against Bernie. Then when Bernie came out strong asacanditdate, she tried to take over his turf--turf he did the hard work on. E. Warren has already said that she would take corporate money in the general election. E.Warren is being featured here in order to combat the true representative of the people's interests- Bernie. E. Warren is liked by the NYT because she can be counted on to serve corporate masters.
6
As I observe the media’s continuing dismissal of Bernie Sanders and their championing of others who copy his message and tactics (in ways more palatable to the establishment), I keep thinking about this survey. Implicit bias or business decision?
Percent of each candidate whose supporters make more than $100,000/year
Buttigieg: 37%
O'Rourke: 30%
Warren: 20%
Biden: 18%
Harris: 18%
Yang: 18%
Sanders: 4%
(Emerson Polling, July 2019)
39
What success has Sen. Bernie Sanders demonstrated in the Senate with respect Medicare for All? I remember he said something about how he "wrote it" -- but did he get pieces (to not say about it as a whole) of it passed?
4
@tony.daysog
Bernie has won widespread support for Medicare for All among the American people!
3
The issue is not who can stand up and entertain in a debate, but who can lead the country and the world.
Too much of the media focus has been on who can match insult for attack against Trump during a debate.
Except for Kennedy/Nixon in 1960, no debate has ever significantly altered the dynamics of an election.
John Kerry defeated GW Bush in three debates, yet still lost the 2004 election.
Voters are more serious about the presidency than the media gives them credit for, and these silly reality show competitions loosely termed "debates" provide a little fodder for the activist/twitter class and the punditry, but for the voters ... all they ask themselves is one question:
Can I picture this candidate as President of the United States; and can I stomach four years of this candidate representing my country.
On this basis, Joe Biden is in good standing; voters are tired of Trump and his immaturity; and they are not sure or impressed with anyone else.
4
@E.A. Barrera not true. Many people are more impressed with other candidates but Biden appears safe. The fact that he will be chewed up and spit out by Trump isn't registering. Let's pick a tough candidate who will not be acquiescent when someone criticizes him or her. Biden will crumble. We need backbone and that will be with almost any other candidate.
4
@E.A. Barrera
I don't believe the rest of the world thinks that the job description of the president of the United States includes being their leader as well as ours. One might ask of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia, Turkey, Germany, Ukraine, Poland, the UK. Oz...well and all the rest. Let's not forget South America or Africa. Well, maybe we should.
1
I don’t think it’s useful to wonder if Warren or Sanders are too far to the left, or if Biden, in the middle, is the trick. I’ve seen Republicans deeply interested in Yang, and liking Williamson. I think many people are open to what are usually classified as “big” changes of mind, such as changing from being completely against universal health care, to being completely for it - and I'm not just talking about very young voters. Sometimes it’s all about how such a policy is defended within an overall world view. It’s a question of who can make such a policy seem so logical and obvious that it goes without saying.
The candidates are selling their worldviews, and if they don’t have one, or if theirs is too detailed and inflexible, they are in trouble.
3
We must remember that this will be a 3 hour debate, and there are 8 other candidates (some desperate) who will vie for speaking time.
Joe and Elizabeth might to appease the media with a few "heated" exchanges, but in truth, neither of them need to do so. We might actually be surprised (as we were with Bernie-Warren in Debate 2) at how amiable they are.
Eyes on Klobuchar.
I know too much about them to want to vote for them.
Less is More.
They have given me too much information.
A blank canvas I could have voted for but this design is not for me.
1
Please come out with some simple, easily understood talking points instead of getting caught up in policy weeds.
1. ALLIES ARE IMPORTANT. Relationships must be repaired.
2. UPGRADING INFRASTRUCTURE is a worthwhile
investment that will also provide middle class jobs.
3. TARIFFS ARE TAXES ON US. They raise the price WE pay.
Farmers need markets. They cannot be bailed out forever.
4. WE NEED A PUBLIC OPTION FOR HEALTH CARE.
And we need to re-strengthen the Affordable Care Act to
ensure coverage for pre-existing conditions.
5. WE NEED SENSIBLE CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS.
We need seasonal visas for agricultural workers.
We need a path to citizenship for "dreamers".
We need more immigration judges to process people seeking asylum.
16
@Semi-retired
Sorry. You mentioned neither climate change nor gun control. Thanks for playing. Next!
4
I hope they are all wise enough to avoid the pitfall of the circular firing squad, and instead focus on solutions to the real problems, like affordable health care and living wages for all workers.
7
I don't care how the debate goes. I like warren but her policy positions make her unelectable. I am talking about decriminalized borders plus compulsory Medicare for all with no provate health insurance plus forgiveness of college debt.
We cannot possibly win in 20 with a candidate who has espoused thaoe povs.
If Biden Stumbles, I will shift to Klobuchar.
6
Another circus, they cal a "debate". So far, NBC and CNN, did a very lousy job on both the questions and moderating. So, lousy a job, that there are still 20 people running. Maybe ABC can do a better job; doubtful.
A couple days ago, it was announced that October "debate" will have to run over two nights, because they will have at least 11 people "debating". Did the other two "debates" change anything? Well, Warren is doing better in the polls, but Biden, Sanders, Warren, Harris and Buutigieg have remained the top 5, in that order, for weeks.
I personally think, that after tomorrow's "debate", that the 5 top candidates continue on, in what would be real debates, and eventually the primaries.
The longer the DNC lets the "debates" continue, the more damage it will inflict on itself, and those who are running. It only helps the GOP and Trump.
5
Though rarely reported, Bernie Sanders is the most serious challenger to Joe Biden, the establishment's favorite. (The last ABC/WashPost poll had Sander's favorability at 8 points above Warren's.) The corporate media and mainstream democrats clearly fear Bernie (and Tulsi Gabbard). They are now promoting Warren, IMO, to split the progressive vote in the safest way for them. After all, Warren "signaled" to them (according to NYT) that she seeks only a "revival", as opposed to a political "revolution"... music to their ears (but not the public's). EVERYONE would want to "revive" things, politically and all other ways. Hillary wanted that much.
24
Agreed. I would add, Warren in any other country would be a middle of the road centrist. Corporate media seems to be framing Warren as the "progressive" candidate most in opposition to Biden in order to make what is essentially a corporate centrist more palatable for progressively minded people...and as you say, this is designed to split the progressive vote. In other words, the strategy here seems to be to shift the Overton window to the right by framing Warren as most representative of the progressive movement whilst omitting any mention of the more substantively progressive candidate, Sanders. @carl bumba
12
@Pierre Angelique
Right. All Warren is going to accomplish is to knock out Bernie and to destroy all the heavy lifting he has done for a lifetime.
4
The candidates must all agree that the platform and program of the Democratic Party is to provide better health care for the populace, improved wages for working people, racial equality, protecting elections from foreign interference, campaign finance reform and expanded voting rights, comprehensive immigration legislation, equitable taxation, protecting the environment and safeguarding the integrity of the legislative and judicial branches, all opposed by Trump, McConnell and the Republican Party. Support what Pelosi and the House have already enacted in this regatrd. Reject labels like centrist, moderate, liberal, progressive and socialist..
7
"reject labels"... Why? You're right that these are all the major issues at hand but there is a world of difference between how a centrist and a socialist perceive an issue like "improved wages for the poor," among others. Glossing over that difference seems to obfuscate the substantive manner in which "socialist" and progressive camps of the democrat party are seeking to counter right wing policy, as opposed to the middle of the road "nothing will fundamentally change" approach of corporate centrists like Biden. @Alan J. Shaw
3
@Pierre Angelique
What is the "world of difference," for example, in the means of raising wages "for the poor" (I actually wrote "for working people") between progressives, socialists and "middle of the road" Democrats? Sanders suggested a minimum wage of $15, Clinton $12. Is that the difference? Now we're stuck at $7.25, and "nothing will fundamentally change" not because of Clinton or Biden but those who en claim to be Democrats but enable Trump.
2
@Alan J. Shaw @Pierre Angelique Even before his 2016 run, Sen. Sanders called to increase the $7.25, saying "over and over again that if any person in America works forty hours a week, they should not be living in poverty." A Kansas City McDonald's worker reminded that "five years ago President Obama had yet to call for even $9." In May 2017, with the support of 5, then 22, then 30 original co-sponsors, Bernie introduced legislation for $15, to be the 1st increase since 2007. This summer his 2019 bill passed the U.S. House. McConnell (R-KY) continues to block the required Senate vote.
2
I'm voting for Biden. Warren would be a McGovern, Mondale, etc. all over again and the country will become an autocracy under a second term w/ trump.
5
@kilika A Biden candidacy would be a guarantee of a record low turnout and another term for Trump. There is zero enthusiasm for him. Even his own wife can't muster much. All the working class voters, who have been systematically taken for granted, betrayed, and ultimately abandoned by the Democratic Party, would stay home again. McGovern was a very long time ago. If the Democrats can't regain their status as champions of the working class, they're dead in the water, and deserve to be. But they can only do that by standing strong for something. And Joe Biden ain't that guy.
4
We already know what will happen. There is no suspense. Warren will be declared the "winner." She's smooth-talking with good stage presence and explains herself well using understandable language. Whether you like what she says, it's hard not to be impressed with how she says it. Her ideas are mostly far to the left of average voters. Can her smooth delivery overcome that lack of fit? Biden will produce some chuckles as his style is like a Model T next to Warren. Yet, he's closer on ideas to ordinary voters and I believe they excuse his gaffes and see him as down to earth, an asset for any politician.
6
@blgreenie
What? You like the preachy schoolmarm's delivery? You could stand being talked to like a first grader by you president?
2
@fragilewing
It might be better than how our president talks to us like a schoolyard bully now.
1
@blgreenie A government that attempts to serve it's people is not a socialist plot!
2
Is the debate tomorrow night just between Biden and Warren? Gee, I didn't know that. I thought there were a lot more Democrats in the debate. Did they all go somewhere, decide not to debate, withdraw from the primaries? I'm confused.
23
Huge news! The candidate whose ideas you ignored last election cycle but that continue to drive the democratic electorate must have dropped out.
Thank you, NYT News CORPORATION for notifying us obliquely that the candidate who would have beaten Trump and who appeals to working class people across the country has dropped out of the race.
Oh, wait, I just received an email from the Sander's campaign talking about Universal healthcare, college debt, medical bankruptcies, parental leave and of course-- that real reason you ignore him-- campaign finance reform that will reduce your profits.
Glad I have more reliable sources of news than the paper of record.
32
@DC
And NYT might lose a lot of readers when they don't have Trump to kick around anymore!
2
Elizabeth, if you hope to win the nomination, DO NOT ATTACK JOE BIDEN. Look what happened to Kamala after she attacked Joe in the first debate. She dropped like a stone in the polls. Democrats do not like Democratic candidates who attack other Democratic candidates. Our enemy is Trump, not Biden.
4
I will never trust Biden. I will vote for him if I have to but he would be a step sideways, not a step forward, a bad win.
Warren is honest. I'd love to see a Warren/ Buttigeg ticket with him as VP and she steps down in 4 years maybe.
She'll wipe him out on Thursday.
4
There will be more than two people on the stage. Could we please stop prejudging that Biden and Warren are the only ones that matter? And to the rest of the media, please stop pre-ordaining the outcome of the primaries. We did that in 2016. And look how great that turned out.
18
Disheartened to read Ms Warren’s narrative about advancing her policy agenda. Paraphrasing as, “get out there and fight.” Americans are tired of fighting. A convincing dialog is what this country needs. Ms Warren’s penchant for fighting is what makes me think she won’t be able to govern. Simply too polarizing a force.
8
@Michael DiLorenzo
Some men don't like women that fight. Against the GOP and the mega-wealthy donor club, you gotta put em up.
They fight dirty as you probably are doing so now. Sow division. Warren is passionate about working for the workers, whatever that fight takes but fairly.
2
@Anne
Oh? Why then has Warren already said that she will take corporate money in the general election and thus serve corporate masters?
3
Agreed. Nothing new here at all. And not likable enough for swing voters.
3
Preserving and expanding the middle class should be Warren's theme. That is not a "left-wing" or "socialist" goal in the least. It shouldn't scare anybody. It is what all her plans and proposals aim at. Higher education and marketable skills have always been the ticket into the middle class but now it's too expensive for too many and requires too much debt and sacrifice by both students and their parents. Likewise childcare, early education and healthcare. Her plans are not directed solely at the poorest but at all working people who struggle to keep up and to get back up when they get knocked down. Republicans have nothing for the embattled and insecure middle class but symbolic tax cuts, if that, while the costs of healthcare, childcare, higher education, and housing rise inexorably. Warren is already the champion of the middle class. She needs to make that clear.
25
I am extremely looking forward to this. I was initially slow to warm up to Warren on the “electability” argument. I did a 180 after learning more about her background, policies, and problem-solving skills. I’m hoping the rest of the country has that same opportunity on debate night.
71
In a debate format, Warren will take Biden to the cleaners. If the two have a head-on clash tomorrow night, Warren will easily dominate. I like Joe Biden, he has served the country admirably, but he's not animated enough to face down Trump in a debate. Trump will eagerly exploit Biden's Nice Guy public persona to humiliate him.
Warren has no Nice Guy image to worry about. She demonstrated grit and pugnacity in previous debates, therefore viewers will not be shocked when she vigorously parries Trump's inevitable lies and insults. She will counterpunch aggressively, calling out Trump's invective on the spot. She will deny Trump the ability to frame issues his way, which will drive him crazy, right there in front of the electorate.
70
@Will
"Trump will eagerly exploit Biden's Nice Guy public persona."
That's what Paul Ryan thought in October 2012. He's not around any more.
2
@Saints Fan
"Crusty the Clown"
Nonetheless, Biden got the job done and righted a ship that was sinking badly after Obama's first debate against Romney.
It was the same spirit that will see the Pats triumph over the Texans on December 1st.
1
It's a safe bet that Biden will posture with yet more word salads, while Warren will articulate somewhat liberal plans, that can be compromised away should she manage to explain her membership in the Republican Party for 25 years, win the nomination, and then beat Trump.
Submitted Sept. 11 3:17 PM eastern
7
It's far better and more important for candidates to articulate *what* they believe are good, sound proposals for people to support, why, and how people's lot will improve by signing on -- versus taking swipes at each other on a personal level. We as a nation have HUGE goals to pursue, and tremendous amounts of respectful inclusion to aspire to in our public discourse, versus the bitter divisiveness offered by the other main candidate (and current office holder). Progress will be made by inspiring and uniting people behind d well communicated, fair, and well thought-out goals.
15
This story conveniently leaves out the second-highest polling candidate and the one who has brought the discussion of Medicare for All and free public college tuition to the forefront of the Democratic primary: Bernie Sanders.
Without Bernie, Warren wouldn't have any policy ideas other than lecturing families on how to save money they don't have. And she wouldn't have those ideas if it wasn't for Suze Orman.
68
@Healthcare is a Right. No offense, but you clearly haven't read any of Warren's plans. She has, by far, the most detailed, thoughtful set of plans among the candidates (Democrat or Republican). Please - pick any one of Warren's policy proposals and take 30 minutes to drill down. I suspect you'll be impressed. Warren seems miles ahead in understanding the big-picture.
9
@Healthcare is a Right
Dear HealthCare is a Right,
Bernie Sanders is polling 3rd behind Biden and Warren. The NYT article about tonight's debate has the stats.
@Pitcher
Sorry, but which Warren's plans are as detailed or expansive as Sanders'? On climate change, criminal justice reform, educational reform and labor reform Sanders goes farther and more in-depth than Warren. She doesn't even list Medicare for All on her issues page (which for a self-proclaimed progressive, is something of an eyebrow raiser).
And in terms of the big picture, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you again. Warren looks at American society and sees a good system poorly managed. Sanders looks at American society and sees a rotten, broken system working exactly as intended (i.e. keeping a boot on the necks of average Americans).
8
Hopefully the Democrats will not make the same mistake of 2016 and nominate an old establishment candidate.
The “good old days” of bipartisan government are over. Real change is required to move the country forward in a positive direction for the majority of people.
Democrats must get aggressive or this country is over. Biden is not the right candidate for these times.
44
i support Biden. I hope he makes his case clearly and succinctly. I believe the positions he espouses are closer to those of the middle of the electorate who will decide this election. My chief goal has not changed: to make Trump a one term president, to bring honesty and decency back to the White. At present, 71% of those polled do not believe any words coming from the Trump White House are truthful. This is an alarm bell for democracy. In order to survive as a democracy we must have capable, honest and decent people leading us. I include Ms. Warren in that group. But for President, for that person who can gather Democrats, disenchanted Republicans and Independents, particularly in the Upper Mid West, I support Vice President Biden. Remember Biden is ahead in Texas, Ohio and Wisconsin. Without those states, Trump is a one-term President.
11
Wait... do you really think “the middle of the electorate” will decide this election? Were you not paying attention in 2016? We need a candidate that will rally the base. Not another boring corporate centrist!
46
In 2016 Bernie supporters stayed home, despite him asking them to vote for Clinton. Look what they got for that pettiness. I trust they won’t make the same mistake this time. It depends on what the base is - I’m not convinced it’s just “sweeping change” proponents. Lots of disenchantment with Trump, but also lots of fear of too bold a left. In your fearful populist climate I think middle is the safest route for you right now.
3
@Alex Robilotta
Were you not paying attention in 2016? Didn't Hilary win by 3 or 4 million votes? And lose in the electoral college due to a combined vote of 70,000 or so? Didn't gerrymandering and Russian interference have something to do with this? I'm not a rabid Hilary fan, but wouldn't she be a little better than what we have now?
We might say- Trump has really opened our eyes to the corruption, and we see big time what needs to change- but now that our eyes are opened, he may be impossible to get rid of.
1
Well, beat the drums loudly.
As if this is a theatrical production to market.
"Those tensions will be laid bare."
The fact is, Mr. Biden is the candidate of "Restoration" and Ms. Warren is the candidate of change.
Ms. Warren has distilled her message into a simple concept: We need to attack the corruption of our American governmental system, in which legislators are bought and the people forgotten. All other issues, in her view, coalesce around this central truth: climate change, health care, gun control, everything.
For Mr. Biden, government was once and can again be made functional.
It's really as simple as that.
From the point of view of the Democratic primary voter, of course, there is the question of who can oust Mr. Trump.
13
Actually, there is a great youtube video of Warren and Biden "debating" back when Biden was a Senator representing the credit card industry and Warren appeared as a consumer advocate.
Anyone interested in why they should be supporting Warren instead of Biden should definitely watch it.
I'm not sure if I can post a link so just look for Biden vs. Warren: Full Judiciary Committee Exchange. Well worth all voters' time.
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@avrds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InVvVzprIxQ
He talks rather than listens, interrupts repeatedly, shows disrespect to this citizen who is testifying, and fights for credit cards rights over consumer rights. Sheesh.
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@Betsy Todd
Thank you!
And he prevaricates, does everything he can to take the discussion away from credit card companies, whom he is there to protect.
He's the guy who assured his rich donors that they have nothing to fear from him -- i.e., nothing will change -- and it's clear even then whom it is he represents.
I thought Warren was indeed "very good," which coming from Biden sounded condescending. But I mean it.
4
I've been following Times coverage of the Democratic contenders closely, but it's still unclear to me whether Bernie Sanders is running for President.
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@Norman Finkelstein
I agree. Isn’t Sanders related to KFC?
4
@Norman Finkelstein
I am not one to play identity politics, but...
Of course we know that the New York Times is the mouthpiece of the establishment, which is risking another Trump term with its "anybody but Bernie" strategy, but dare I ask if there is some real, actual anti-Semitism involved in many pundits' seeming personal revulsion for this candidate?
This is a genuine question, as I'm over here on the left coast and am not familiar with the subtleties of New York/Washington culture. I suppose it doesn't matter, progressives expect this to be an epic battle, against an overwhelmingly negative corporate media anyway. But they sure are not being subtle about it with Sanders-erasing headlines like this.
16
@Norman Finkelstein: It is not only the NYT that is ignoring Bernie and trying to make this out to be a Warren/Biden race, the corporate media is in lockstep on this. Sanders has always polled nearly 10 points ahead of Trump, Warren has never been anywhere near that. We always hear of the cowardice of the GOP members of Congress in ignoring Trump's vile and corrupt behavior, when will some members of the major press call out the dishonesty of their masters? Greg Kafoury
18
It's not just that Biden makes "gaffes." It's that his gaffes reveal an entire mindset. When you talk about how boys are tough but girls are pretty, that's a mindset, not a gaffe. When you talk about how poor kids and not just white kids (sic) need to have a chance to succeed in school, that's a mindset, not a gaffe.
I think Biden's heart is in the right place in some ways. But his heart still wants it to be 1985, when you could meet Republicans in the middle if you just grabbed a drink with them and played a few rounds of golf. We are way past that. Republicans killed that political compromise model with the Newt Gingrich-era attacks on Clinton and haven't really relented since. They serve their corporate donors more than their voters, using guns and abortion as wedge issues to keep their voters from noticing that the GOP is a corporate party serving big corporate interests. (And as a result, GOP voters have gotten so cynical about politics that they prefer a conman to a Republican political insider.) The GOP is not going to play nice. Not ever. Biden is promising an impossibility. And I don't think people will buy it.
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@Rachel C. Warren is gradually gaining in the polls and picking off the non-Biden voters mostly from other Democratic candidates. Biden is offering only electability and a reboot to the past. He is a good man but looking more and more fragile each day; an "edible fruit arrangement could be Trump." I had been expecting Warren to surge early next year, but it may be a lot sooner. Biden may be toast after tomorrow's debate.
4
@Rachel C. A possible irony is that while Democrats will need convincing majorities in both houses of Congress to push through Warren's agenda, Biden's coattails might be more effective than Warren's in producing those majorities.
3
@Rachel C. - it's more than a "mindset" - it's a Neoliberal economic and social ideology and policy agenda. Here's some facts:
https://www.rootsaction.org/storage/documents/BidenFactSquadLeaflet.pdf
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I hope she destroys him.
Biden is the lazy, apathetic choice of those who want business as usual, a world where we can just pretend Donald Trump never happened.
And while I find Trump’s Pocahontas slur pathetic, I can’t disagree with the president’s characterization of Biden: weak, aged, not totally here. His time is up. Let go.
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@Mikki
Dear Mikki,
That seems like a pretty strident tone about a Democrat who has not been perfect but has also worked to champion Democratic policies. He may not be my favorite candidate either, but frankly, I don't want to see any of our Democratic candidates "destroyed". What will that accomplish?
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Biden is the Wall Street candidate, exactly why the commercial media is pushing him so hard.
Nominate Joe Biden and get a second helping of the Trump/Pence show.
Bookmark my comment. I dare the pundit and political coverage staff to.
7
Dear CNN, don’t make this debate about Biden and Warren. Don’t pick winners. Forget the polls. All the candidates got into this debate fair and square and I want to hear from them. They should all get a fair shake. Do the job right.
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@SMS I believe this debate is on ABC and Univision. With that said, I totally agree with your vision. I wish they would give more than 75 seconds for responses and 30 seconds for rebuttals, but hopefully the moderators will give everyone equal time to articulate their ideas.
4
I personally want to hear more from a Andrew Yang. He has gotten the least amount of speaking time in both debates, but when he does speak, I’m hooked. @SMS
3
Perhaps we will see a Biden/ Warren ticket come Election Day.
6
@David Folts What a waste of her talents, to put her in a VP slot.
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@Betsy Todd
There is A LOT she can do as a VP, and I believe the both of them together would make a strong ticket. We all know she is not someone that is easily ignored, but unfortunately is too, I was going to say real, but, perhaps better put intensely passionate for the majority of the populace to vote for, the majority of which are not higher educated and busy working several jobs to keep their head above water.
However if she can convince Joe to join with her, she can still get the most important things done And be first up for the next term. Joe however, also has to own up to His mistakes in the past, e.g. the CC industry gaffe mentioned above, as well as others, before She will even consider running with Him - listening Joe's campaign?
2
@Betsy Todd
However, at his age, he ought to have a strong, talented VP. I hope that the older candidates (including Sanders and Warren) are thinking about this too. It's going to be very rough sailing (consider Trump's angry, irrational supporters and the need for quick action on climate change) for any Democrat who ends up as president.
Bottom line: working families have not recovered from the 2008 Great Looting that brought the economy to cinders. Working two jobs, at minimum wages, without healthcare, vacation or benefits is not doing well nor it’s good for their health or their children. If voters are indeed happy with the status quo, they will reward former VP Biden with their vote. Mr. Biden nostalgically bathes in a 1990s world.
If voters want “capitalism with rules”, then they will support Senator Warren.
The playing field has to be made fair, not fairer, but fair! That doesn’t mean that the country wants to embrace “Socialism” in any of its permutations: from Chinese to Cuban or even of the Israeli Kibbutz variety. American families want “Capitalism with Rules.” Vulture capitalism has to be regulated, Private Equity has to be regulated, stock market trading has to be regulated - no everyday Joe or Jane has a ghost of chance with these forces running amok. Just look at the overnight billionaires who are financing the “centrist status quo”. Why would they want change?
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Let's just forget that Sanders is polling ~evenly with Warren right now and is not a serious contender.
Let's also promote rivalry between Democrats and split the party, the same thing that happened last year, partially leading to Trump's win, I am sure.
90
Are you saying that warren and sanders and polling evenly... but somehow warren is a serious contender and sanders is not? How does that make sense???
3
@Alex Robilotta
Kieran is being sarcastic.
4
The "horserace" aspect of covering this debate is dangerous inasmuch as it tends to obfuscate the most important point of all -- namely, to allow the Americans a chance to see for themselves who might best serve their interests by replacing the person currently in the Oval Office.
Shame on anyone for making it appear to be anything other than that.
Nothing less than our Democracy is at stake.
37
Golly, who else is polling in the high teens and is a sharp contrast with Biden in his policies? Let me think... starts with an "S".
I like Sanders slightly better than Warren, but I like her too. I will vote for a tree stump over Trump, which means I'd even support Biden.
But this upper middle class snobbery/hatred of Sanders is really noticeable. All you folks who talk about party unity ought to keep in mind that unity flows both ways. I suspect that if Sanders won the nomination, let alone the Presidency, there would be a lot of Democrats trying to undermine him.
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@Donald
Yes as in quickly limiting the power of the executive, which may seem like a strategy intended for preventing a future Trump type presidency, but will conveniently be applied to Sen. Bernie Sanders to limit his ability to implement governmental reform and progressive policy.
13
@Donald Sanders is in many ways a noble figure fighting for the underprivileged, he rallied Senate support for trying to check our country's involvement in the slaughter of innocent people in Yemen, and he has had the courage and integrity to criticize Israel's policy towards the Palestinians. Would he be effective in getting Congress to pass his agenda? Much would depend on who gets elected to Congress. But I wonder if it is Sander's fate to be more of a prophet than a legislator.
3
The issue of Democratic infighting is wrong. This is a two-part process. The first part is identifying Democratic candidates, evaluating their qualifications, strengths and weaknesses, and choosing from among them our perceived best candidate to assume the presidency and lead the country.
Once that candidate is chosen next year, then it's all out, using every tool in the toolbox, to engage voters, advocate for the Democratic candidate and make sure our elections are secure, accessible to all eligible voters, and are fair.
Democratic primary candidates should be asked about their experience, their areas of expertise, and their vision of where they want to take the country. They shouldn't be afraid to confront candidates who differ from them, as long as they are using facts and evidence, and not ad hominem attacks, as the basis of their arguments.
They have to do this over the obstacles of televised debates being hosted by for-profit entertainment venues, and not neutral, third party voter expert organizations. So, as much as its harmful to the citizenry, we are in for more sound bite responses to questions not of our choosing relayed by overpaid entertainers who are not investigative journalists nor experts.
14
I’m curious why Sanders is not mentioned as he seems to be polling even or better than Warren.
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@Nathan I'm sticking with Bernie, as he is the one who "brought me to the dance". Without his bold ideas, the rest of the progressive field would have nothing to build upon. I like Warren, but it's Bernie who has championed the policies others are now advocating. In the end, I'll vote for whomever is the eventual D nominee. Heck, I'll vote for a sponge before I vote for Trump.
25
@Nathan
Sanders might as well
belong to the Riff-Raff Party.
2
@Nathan A variety of reasons, but I think it all comes down to that a Sanders presidency would be bad for business.
7
My hope this time around is that the questions aren't designed to pick fights. When left to their own, the candidates have shown a graceful tendency to give credit to one another. That's what I tune in to see.
39
@David Hear hear!
I couldn't help but notice that in round 2, a lot of people were expecting Warren and Sanders to go after each other, and the moderator's questions seemed to be designed with that goal in mind, and instead they were literally hugging each other and largely debated as a tag-team.
As far as I can tell, so far moderators have been going for trying to create the 30-second sound bite clip they can play repeatedly rather than doing their job of allowing the candidates to describe and contrast their varying policy ideas, records, and ways of thinking about the problems of the day. That's not conducive to smart voting.
25
Priming the public for infighting between Warren and Biden is precisely what Trump and the Republicans are hoping for. Let's hope they will be disappointed.
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