I believe it is a reasonable strategy for Turkey to try. Desperate times require desperate measures.
10
You are missing the point. The point is not refugees, which turkey has profited greatly from by using them as card against Europe, getting paid to host them, using them politically in Syria and bringing all Syrian factories to their lands... etc. but the point is they want to enforce demographic changes in Kurdish areas but removing the Kurds and bringing in the Arab refugees to replace them... exactly what they have done in Efrin. They are controlling a large territory right now... where is the returning refugees or the cities and opportunities that they have provided
16
Turkey’s plan regarding the Syrian refugees is a direct response to Trump's administration Middle East policy. Those policies have made Turkey extremely unhappy and has paved the way for a much closer ties between Turkey and its neighbors to the East; that is Russia, Iran, and Iraq.
There are many reasons for Turkey being unhappy, if not alarmed, with the US Middle East policy. The most important one is the US military support for PKK, the Kurdish separatist group, regarded to be a terrorist organization by Turkey. Then there is the matter of US policies being unconditionally aligned with Israel's designs for the region as well as Turkey's perceived roles of the US and Israel in the recent coup attempt against President Erdoğan government.
Since 16 July of 2016 - the day after the failed coup d'état against President Erdoğan - the Turkish media have been asking a number of loaded questions. The main question has been: how is it possible a military coup involving many military personnel and, in particular, participation of NATO bombers/fighter jets can go undetected by intelligent agencies such as CIA, MOSSAD, and others? And the answer has always been: given their level of penetration into Turkish military ranks, that is almost impossible.
Then it follows that the coup was either organized by these agencies or they allowed it to proceed; a conclusion consistent with absence of inquiry in any country into "failure" of their intelligence agency in detecting the coup.
3
“they have to obey Turkish laws”
A reasonable request and mantra!
To be followed by”policymakers must be held accountable for harmful words and actions, as well as for not voicing and writing helpful words which are needed, planning, carrying out and learning from helpful needed action!” And not just by empty words - “I apologize.”
Which leaves the power with the violator.
Publicly: “ I ask you to forgive me for...” Which enables the “violated,”
single as well as multiple, whatever their status, to determine whether or not to forgive. When. How long. To set conditions, if appropriate.
Which enables building anew. Reconciliation. Which seeds and harvests a viable culture of “Fail better” enabling healthy needed changes in which contributing to make a needed difference transmuted into a daily norm. Value. Ethic. Civility in safe life spaces fostering passable bridges to menschlichkeit in enabled, toxic WE-THEY cultures and environments, to overcome man-made violating of created, selected, targeting of “the other.”
Turkish laws, as well as any other man made laws, anywhere, underpinned by theological or secular foundations, have been, are and can be shields to protect the powerless as well as tools with which to violate.
To whom is Erdogan accountable?
Are these nameless Syrians, each with a name, history, a range of human characteristics, strengths and limitations COMMODITIES to be “exported?” Pawns to be played with?
What is the essence of being law-abiding as a person?
1
Nearly every country in the world is reacting against immigration. It's not just Trump and Europe; South African Blacks are riotng against Nigerian immigrants; Turkey is dumping its Syrian immigrants; Buddhist Burma has tossed out its Muslims, and I don't see China and Japan rushing to take in African refugees.
The real problem is that humans have bred too many people, at a time when technology is reducing the need for human labor. The world has too many people!
35
Its high time I believe for the Syrians to curve out their piece of the country which under US protection can prosper and force the others inside the autocratic regime find strength to over throw and become prosperous like the the golden times back then that we all read in biblical tales
5
And we're about to watch the Palestinians, those Perpetual Refugees for 80 years, demand that they remain the quintessential refugee focus of the planet. Time to tell them to give it up, there are tens of millions of refugees on this planet, 75 million of them on the move, another 50 million or so internally displaced, and countries that have given them shelter like Turkey, Mexico, Greece, maybe even Germany, and France, have reached their limit of patience. Their elites don't like it, but their populace insists. The UN has very little to brag about, but it does make a neatly ordered looking refugee camp, where Western aid can be distributed. How about the UN is put in charge of huge refugee camps somewhere, on Western money, of course. Then we can talk about resettlement.
9
John Bolton has been fired. Could it be that bombs and missiles inflicting on people's governments we don't like will be a thing of the past? How do the profits in our defense establishment correlate to the devastation of citizens(Defense department officials going to work in places like Lockheed) in the Middle East? Tulsi, where are you?
2
This is Erdogan playing power politics blackmailing EU and the US to let Turkey install a buffer zone inside Syria separating the Kurds, backed by the US inside Syria and Iraq, from Turkey which has a restive Kurd minority itching for a greater Kurdish country, uniting Kurds in Iraq and in Syria.
Can't blame Turkey, under Erdogan, wanting to rekindle its 15th century Ottoman empire ambitions except that the US, Russia and France and England, not to mention Israel, won't let him. So Turkey has been playing local geopolitical games with the US and Russia. I wonder how the Turkish economy has been doing the last few years. If Erdogan's regime messed up the Turkish economy, then his days in office may be numbered.
Like the old saying "those who play with fire may get burned", Erdogan tried to insert himself into the middle of the geopolitical games, at Syria, between the US, Russia, France and England and may wind up getting burned.
5
Syria has experienced over 10 years of drought, leading to impoverished farmers, their (very unhappy) kids streaming into the city, joining an already existing mass of unemployed youth - a recipe for unrest, extremism - you name it.
Add to that Assad's inaction on the water crisis, illegal wells, corruption, shy-high birth rates
Add to that extremist religious groups, unleashed across all desert borders when the US took out Saddam Hussein, the only secular dictator in the region
- - you saw the dominoes falling
Given new strongmen in governments, more environmental devastation, more fights about resources, birthrates inching down only in the wrong places (+ the US forbidding even family planning for for anyone receiving US foreign aid) - it looks like this is the tip of the iceberg. And when that has melted, millions of angry people will ask why we wasted resources while they are wasting away.
Time for a holistic view of politics, economy, women's rights and the climate - we are all connected.
14
wonderful photographs of this sad situation, helping to make it real
many congratulation to the photographer
The Western created civil+mercenary war is over and Syrians in Turkey (their numbers around four million!) just want to go back to their homeland. How is this radical?
It would be radical if these Syrians were handed over to Assad who would punish them somehow. I'm very glad they are going to be sent back to secure camps. Didn't we have all enough terror during the last four years? I'm speaking about the multiple attacks in France, Europe and Turkey. This really has to end... for good.
Those who think Syrians are not treated well or that they deserve a better future are free to sponsor refugees and bring them into the US. Just, don't expect the Turks to house everyone permanently.
7
And that's also why it was so obnoxious of the UN to demand that Israel return the Golan Heights to the Syrian government. The Israelis have, all during the dissolution of Syria, provided health care, food, and above all protection, for the Druze and Syrians around and on the Golan Heights. Sure, it was to keep the high ground safe on their northern border, but it also was a great deal for any stray Syrians who could convince the Israelis that they would be delighted to be left alone and protected by the Israeli Defence Forces from Hezbollah, Syrian militias, and the Syrian government. I am in some, though not much, hope that the UN, which is running out of money to care for all these refugees, might decide that they have to stop spouting anti-Semitic nonsense if they want to keep their refugee care organization going.
@Blackbird
7
You are missing the point. The point is not refugees, which turkey has profited greatly from by using them as card against Europe, getting paid to host them, using them politically in Syria and bringing all Syrian factories to their lands... etc. but the point is they want to enforce demographic changes in Kurdish areas but removing the Kurds and bringing in the Arab refugees to replace them...
1
One has to admit that Turkey has been extraordinarily generous in sheltering the Syrian refugees. I don't find it particularly surprising that Turkey's patience is running out. There is an enormous amount of reconstruction needed in Syria and this will need Syrian workers on the ground. There will be a need for a form of international ' Marshall Aid ' to reconstruct Syria. Turkey could indeed send a flood of refugees into Europe so it behoves rich Europe to cough up cash to resettle Syrians back in Syria and provide material support for reconstruction.
8
I believe the war in Syria is mainly about refugees. Russia has had enormous success in destabilizing Europe and the rest of the world by synchronized efforts to elevate the right-wing movements and creating a flood of refugees.
I know it sounds like tin-foil territory, but look at that war - it makes no sense and could have been stopped many years ago.
12
Dear Truthseeker,
It's more likely that the Syrian civil war came about because of Assad's brutal dictatorship being difficult to live with, and additionally there was a years-long drought that increased the suffering of most Syrians dramatically. Lastly, Assad rules with an Alawite minority and oppresses the Sunni majority, so there's the usual sectarian conflict involved as well.
Russia would actually have wanted to prevent this war, because Syria is their only friendly Mediterranean port, and Syria owes them a huge sum for weapons shipments. This war has pushed back Syria's repayment so it hasn't been good for Russia.
6
@Dan Stackhouse
Actually the war has been good for Russia. It has burnished its reputation as a patron for its client states, as well as showcased its military capabilities to the world. Russia is now a more credible alternative to similar countries around the world. The value of future contracts in all probability outweighs the deferral of the postponed Syrian debt.
6
@Dan Stackhouse while most of your points are correct to say that Assad oppressed the Sunni majority on the basis of their religion is not correct. The Sunnis are treated like everyone else in Syria (with the exception of Jews that have different restrictions on them). I’m not saying everything is equal in Syria, as it is true the Alawites control the military but saying Sunnis are more oppressed than any other group in Syria is not accurate.
Foreign preachers are banned, certain groups are banned (for example the Muslim Brotherhood) but that is true in many Sunni Muslim countries as well. Assad rules brutally but he rules everyone brutally regardless of religion.
7
They want to be like the U.S.A.
2
Just wondering how we would feel if all of a sudden, bombs and missiles flew destroying our cities and communities? What would it be like without electricity for 6 months, 1 year? The response from those foreign countries...."we want to free you from your leader and besides, you are worshiping the wrong God...". I have a feeling they don't love America. Syria and others lie in devastation, the poor citizens only wanting to have a home. Is there a connection somewhere?
7
Unlike the US, at least Turkey fines the employers of illegal immigrants, not just the immigrants. At least Turkey gets one thing right.
25
I think this is fascinating. When Americans object to Central Americans entering in large numbers, they are called white supremacists and all sorts of other nasty names. When Turks object to Syrians they’re what? Human beings object to large cultural shifts and invasions by other tribes. It’s just human nature.
44
Syrians must return home. Maybe now they will learn to live in peace with one another. Their fate is in their own hands.
27
@willt26
Actually, NO -- The Syrian's fate lies in the hands of Bashar al-Assad, which is also how the problem started.
4
From this puff piece I have learned very little. Exactly how are the Syrians super different from the Turks? (Language, writing … OK but religion? belief system?)
The pictures were fascinating-- men sewing clothing -- women's work-, the 500 mile long not so beautiful armed border wall -- an inspiration for you-know-who? (Wonder how much it cost??) -- in fact, almost all images of men and boys, except for the woman dressed in black holding the infant (back to overpopulation). Where are the females?? Where are the schools?
Turkey is a relatively modern country when it comes to women's rights... and the refugees were just that supposedly. I know nothing really about Syria, the status of women -- does not seem promising from the photographs.
Syria is a mess -- war, climate change and ISIS and rebuilding will be a challenge but no more so than a more sophisticated war plane. How much rivalries and belief systems may hamper reconstruction if at all is yet to be determined. One can bake pastries and make various items almost anywhere... if one has fuel. (Solar, wind power? things international relief organizations or good old governments might negotiate major for -- time to not return a profit to investors.
I wish MEN would stop all of this war stuff... really women of the world unite.
14
@Auntie Mame
Turkish and Syrians are different.
1- Turkish and Arabic are completely different languages coming from distinct language families. Syrians speak Arabic, use Arabic alphabet and belong to the Arabic race. Turkish speak own language, use latin alphabet ( the one English uses) and ethnically Turkic. Despite being geographically close and barrowing common words Turkish and Arabic are as different as Chinese and English are.
2- Despite the recent vibes of tough regime, today s Turkey is a democratic republic with European ties, and a European based law and governance system. There is a parlamento and well functioning governmental bodies ang strong civil organizations. Turkey is an official EU membership candidate negotiating accession to EU. On the other hand Syria is war torn Middle Eastern country.
3- Health care, education systems and infrastructure are solid, stable and well functioning despite some problems. See the hospitals, doctors, schools and highways in Turkey. The development level of Turkey is enormously high compared to that of Syria.
Well yes Turkish have problems but they are not “ comparable” to Syrians.
3
These images are terrifying. Where are the women, and the girls? Siloed in shacks, clad in oppressive black fundamentalist garb doing the cooking and cleaning for the men and boys we see in every one of these photos.
27
You might want to update your headline. Turkey is going to repopulate an area that used to be filled with Kurds with the Syrian refugees it will force to go there. This to get a Kurdish population away from its borders AND get rid of the thousands of "refugees" Erdogan let into the country when he was trying to be the next "leader" of the Islamic world. Strange, he never asked his people if they wanted to host all of these "refugees". Neither did any of the leaders in Europe. At least Erdogan is finally being honest about this--people don't want forced immigration. And Turkey cannot afford it. Watch Erdogan try to shake down the EU for more money. "Pay me XXXXX billion or I will get the boats out again and send all of these people to Greece--just like 2015!" And the EU has done NOTHING since then, and this new shakedown has already started. Illegal migration is an ongoing racket. Shut it down at your borders or you will pay, forever.
18
Reading the article and the comments gives me the sense that Turkey has the same immigration issues we see in the US, UK, and Germany. People are tribal, and economics matters. Interesting to see these sentiments in the usually ultra-liberal comment section of the NYT. Is change coming to America?
20
Turks are clearly the world's most experienced people when it comes to reporters undesirables. Let's hope they will show more compassion and less ruthlessness toward their fellow Syrian Muslims, albeit Arabs, than they did toward Armenians, Greeks and Syriac Christians who inhabited Anatolia long before Turkish conquerors showed up to create their Ottoman Empire. Compassionate deportations should be easier this time around not only because of their shared Islamic religion, but also because the Syrian refugees do not now possess properties anywhere close in value of what was taken by the Turkish state and individuals from the Armenian, Greek and Syriac Christian genocide victims and deportees.
However, when we Americans condemn Turkey over its treatment of the Syrian refugees, we should be mindful of our country's mistreatment of political and economic refugees from south of our border. And we have a genocidal past as well.
11
Everybody's got a genocidal past, really. It's the human condition, no species kills humans as much as humans do.
3
@Jamie Nichols
The genocide you mention is an unproven, subjective and possible politically motivated matter, that is under study of academicians and historians.
What this news piece talks about is deporting undocumented immigrants who do not legally reside or work in Turkey.
1
If Obama had had the spine to take out Assad when he had the justification for his use of chemical weapons to massacre his own people, maybe there wouldn't be this refugee mess in Turkey today. By all means, like the economy, give credit where credit is due.
5
@John Doe
Not taking out Assad was probably one of the better things Obama did. Look at what has happened to Libya since 2011: it is in utter shambles and now slave markets have returned to Africa. And for the record, the authorship of the various chemical attacks has never been established.
9
@John Doe
If you had any idea of what something like that would've done to a region as unstable as that, you'd probably think twice before saying something like that.
If anything, Obama had every right to be cautious because there would have been no way to get around involving RUSSIA which has several military installations in Syria.
Are YOU ready to go and fight?
I didn't think so.
7
@John Doe If he had done that then Syria might now be ruled by ISIS. Would that be better?
5
"Mohammad al-Azouar, whose family operated a well-known pastry shop in Aleppo, Syria, dutifully covered up a verse by the poet Rumi on the wall inside his shop."
I don't understand the implication here - what was the reason he covered up the verse, and why was this action "dutiful"?
4
@NYCLady I think it was because the verse was in Arabic but not in Turkish. I am Turk. This piece has saddened me deeply but I know Turks can be cruel sometimes, but angels on other times. We are not the most civilized nation on earth for sure :((
4
@NYCLady
The Turkish language uses Latin letters while Arabic uses their own letters. He was asked to cover the Arabic script for assimilation purposes
3
@NYCLady Read the entire article and you'll see the answer plainly written.
The Syrians were never a care, always a prop. Back in the day, it was Ottoman revanchism, south through Syria and East toward Erbil.
Now that it's failed, he's using them as as an extortionist threat again.
But why should the US care? The Kurds have been faithful and good fighters. Turkey is a Russian ally, not a US ally. Let him work out relocation in the Russian-supported area; yes, Assad's Syria. It's the logical consequence of Tayyip's choices.
5
I guess this falls into the category of "no good deed goes unpunished." Now comes an avalanche of criticism for Turkey for returning refugees to their country now it has been pacified, as evidenced by articles like this. Yet Turkey was the only Muslim nation willing to take a substantial number of fellow Muslim refugees from Syria. Today, 65% of all Syrian refugees are residing in Turkey, where they constitute a full 5% of the population. After the sanctimonious Europeans figured out that throwing open their doors to refugees, which totaled less than two-tenths of one percent of their population, wasn't good politics, Turkey agreed to take them off the hands of EU countries.
Turkey is certainly a problem nation, led by an autocratic president on his way to establishing a theocratic dictatorship. But to fault them for returning refugees to their countries of origin, after it is safe to do so, will be a lesson other nations will learn in the future. If you are going to be criticized for doing so, while other nations who refused to take them in the first place are given a pass, why take them from the outset?
37
@Chuck French
"I guess this falls into the category of "no good deed goes unpunished." Now comes an avalanche of criticism for Turkey for returning refugees to their country now it has been pacified, as evidenced by articles like this.”
In 1990, the U.S. Congress decided to offer temporary protection against deportation to illegal immigrants whose home countries had been hit by natural disasters. The problem with this temporary program is that once people were granted this status, many assumed that they would never have to return to their own countries. And, they have convinced some Democrats in Congress that they should be given a path to citizenship.
The Trump Administration is being criticized for wanting to deport those illegal immigrants whose homelands have sufficiently recovered from their natural disasters or other conflicts. Its critics think that Temporary Protected Status really means permanent lawful status and a path to citizenship.
As you say, "no good deed goes unpunished".
9
Actually Jordan also took in a huge number of Syrians, and is probably trying to come up with a way to send them back as well.
7
@Chuck French
"If you are going to be criticized for doing so, while other nations who refused to take them in the first place are given a pass, why take them from the outset?
"The European Union has given Turkey about $6.7 billion since 2015 to help control the flow of migrants. But Turkey, which has given sanctuary to 3.6 million Syrians, says the migrant problem is growing exponentially."
Maybe $6.7 billion had something to do with it
7
Merkel, are you listening?
16
Sounds like a great idea. Split Syria is half and help the people rebuild their lives.
11
End the war in Syria and let all Syrians go back to their homeland. Admit defeat and let Assad stay in power.
Yes we all wish it would be different but it is not happening. This is the only way out.
26
Researchers of the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry and the Cyprus Institute in Nicosia have calculated that the Middle East and North Africa could become so hot that human habitability is compromised. The goal of limiting global warming to less than two degrees Celsius, agreed at the recent UN climate summit in Paris, will not be sufficient to prevent this scenario. The temperature during summer in the already very hot Middle East and North Africa will increase more than two times faster compared to the average global warming. This means that during hot days temperatures south of the Mediterranean will reach around 46 degrees Celsius (approximately 114 degrees Fahrenheit) by mid-century.
Just imagine how hot the Middle East and North Africa will be 50 years from now? Right now there are over 500 million people living in these two regions. Imagine how many more people the Middle East and North Africa will have because they have such high birth rate because so many Muslim women aren't allowed to control their fertility. Where else will these people flee to but Europe, thus annihilating their culture, and gains made via secularism (including gender equity) and the Age of Enlightenment.
25
Good for Turkey. The countries of Europe are also realizing that they cannot possibly accept unlimited numbers of so called refugees, and the burdens that these migrants place on their own taxpayers and infrastructure. It's only common sense. Meanwhile, illegal aliens continue to leave the despotic countries of the Middle East and expect Europe and the U.S. to pay their way as "asylum seekers". It is a social and economic model that is ripe for collapse.
30
@paul, the European Union considers civilians fleeing war to be refugees, so the pejorative "so called" is totally inappropriate here.
4
Certainly don't carry any brief for the thug Erdogan, but Turkey has been decent about the Syrian refugees, and ALL the border countries and EU refugee buffer states have been left in the lurch by wealthier and more capable Northern blondes. Even Canada, that initially set up an effective and potentially prototype refugee acceptance program under young Trudeau has backed off. America's double game, of both invading sovereign Syria without invitation and then sparing the Assad regime ISIL's flank attack to ensure his victory, now ends with no accountability for the resulting mess.
6
What part of the options is radical?
6
I have found that invariably the authoritarian personality tends to be inhumane and ruthless. Do these leaders ever consider the cruelty of their policies---how they make parents cry or the many that cringe in pain? Why can't a leader regard all human beings as worthy of respect, regardless of their ethnicity? Is this a Quixotic dream--where leaders will no longer gas their own citizenry if they protest his leadership or ship them off to inhospitable shores? Maybe, the authoritarian leader is always ruling on a war footing, and "war" removes human worth from opponents.
1
There are and have been a host of dystopian futuristic science fiction novels. Most of us do not want to admit that the future may already be here. And meanwhile we are the lobsters in the pot of water getting hotter by the moment.
2
The reality is that resettlement is not a viable solution. It works for awhile, but at some point becomes unsustainable. The issues and problems need to be addressed at the source so that people can continue to live and thrive in their own lands.
10
Great idea. Who pays?
3
@Gifts This only works if each nation contributes a fair share. There is a cost, but it is more reasonable than paying for transport and support of immigrants haphazardly. And the culture shock is less.
2
I don't like the autocratic Erdogan at all, but I understand the motivation here. Some Syrians are definitely a benefit to Turkey's economy, but not all of them, and a million refugees with a different language and culture are tough to absorb. Turkish citizens are also as racist as any other group of humans and thus feel considerable antipathy towards their Syrian neighbors. If the U.S. tried to take in a million Syrians, even as a far larger and richer country, there would be these same problems.
Additionally, the Syrian civil war is dying out, through attrition and exhaustion. Areas of Syria are getting to be safe again, particularly the Kurdish zone that Erdogan wants to move the refugees into.
So while I detest the majority of Erdogan's policies, I don't see many problems with this one, and it seems to be feasible. I also understand why Syrians would prefer to go to Europe, as Syria is still a blasted ruin, but it's their country and it'd be better if they help to rebuild it.
20
Interesting how this article says little to nothing about how the governments of Europe plan to respond to these developments.
2
@Metaphor
Europe has already done more than its fair share in addressing this problem -- that's the problem.
At some point, it must all go back to Bashar al-Assad.
1
ISIS is defeated. We have ended our secret CIA program, Timber Sycamore, that armed and funded AQ affiliates (the “good” rebels) and, by extension, ISIS in our horrible regime change effort to unseat Assad. Millions of refugees putting strain on European secular societies and close to a million civilians killed in a civil war initiated, sustained and perpetuated by us and Saudi Arabia. Time to end it for good and return the Syrians back to their country.
6
ISIS is not defeated.
3
@FXQ
Only in the mind of Donald Trump is ISIS defeated.
No. The West must take responsibility for its acts.
Erdogan should send these refugees to Western Europe or use this leverage to exort more money from Germany et al. They waged three illegal wars in the Middle East in the 21st Century (Iraq, Lebanon and Syria), therefore they should pay.
May this be a reminder for the Westerners: don't wage a war if you can't bear its consequences.
5
@VK
Persuaded by his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, after the Syrian conflict began, President Obama reluctantly had a small number of rebels trained and equipped. For the most part, he tried to keep us out of the Syrian conflict ... remember he refused to attack Assad's forces after some accused it of using chemical weapons. He instead agreed to let Russia dispose of Syria's chemical weapon arsenal.
The Syrian conflict was begun and waged by people who lived in the Middle East (plus Russia) until the West realized it had to enter the conflict to defeat ISIS.
VK, would you have preferred that we had not help defeat ISIS?
2
Unfortunately, no Westerners waged this particular war. This was a civil war, uprising by a segment of Syrians, backed primarily by Saudi Arabia and its underlings.
Same thing goes for Lebanon, religious civil war in that case, and with Iran and Saudi Arabia being the most heavily involved, followed interestingly by Israel.
Iraq was a big mistake by the U.S. specifically though, the second war anyway.
11
Mr Erdogan's handling of his country's immigration problem is both political and cultural.
The political aspect is obvious and should not have been unexpected at some point given the deteriorating relations between his Turkish government and the more liberal democracies of Europe and the US. This is machiavellian and not one word of scolding him or Turkey will change a thing. This is a Turkish matter.
The cultural issue is one shared by host populations everywhere in the world. Even in South Africa where Bantus are attacking Nigerian migrants.
Cultural assimilation is mandatory for immigrants to be welcome in a host country. That burden is strictly on the immigrants. When the immigrants hold onto their old culture, especially when aspects of that culture are not welcomed by the host population, then the migrants will not be welcome.
When the volume of migrants becomes burdensome on the host population, then the migrants will not be welcome. If the resulting culture clash is particularly sharp, then the host population most affected by the cultural differences will pressure their governments to stop admitting migrants. If the government doesn't listen, then the host population will take matters into their own hands.
That is the story being played out today in Europe, in Turkey, in South Africa and many other places. Politicians like Mr Erdogan will exploit the issue for their political purposes. The cultural challenges will remain.
10
Whatever countries supported and/or encouraged the rebel uprising against Assad should feel obliged to take in these refugees. I am not sure any country did. For example, the US has long detested the Assad regime but I don't think we fomented the uprising which was organic in nature. And we were always clear we would not provide the rebels with military support. The message from the start was pretty much "you're on your own".
15
@bill
I agree. The US Obama administration did not overtly support the rebels. Unfortunately, one who openly encouraged them was Senator John McCain. McCain and his friend Lindsay Graham gave the strong impression that they privately implied US support. It would be good to know more about their private assurances to the rebels.
5
@Beth: "I agree. The US Obama administration did not overtly support the rebels."
And covert support doesn't count to encouraging the rebellion?
You have to be joking. This is Obama's baby, Red Line in the sand and all.
5
No I think we encouraged the Arab Spring movement. We wanted Assad to be toppled and may have acted accordingly.
5
The US should take in 2 million of these displaced people. In the long run it will
benefit our country and besides we caused the problem. We should have backed Assad from the start and there would have been no war and no refugees.
12
@Yuri Pelham
We caused the problem? This reminds me of assertions about US responsibility I heard often while in the Middle East on USAID business. I realized many there thought the US was omnipotent -- responsible for every situation.
One of Trump's "achievements" is to render that long-held belief obsolete.
11
@Yuri Pelham
Are you saying that we caused the problem because we did not intervene? Do you think it is our responsibility to be the world's policeman?
13
@Yuri Pelham
No, we should not take in any of these displaced people.
No, we did not cause the problem.
No, we will never know if "we should have backed Assad from the start". That red line Obama drew was ignored........and no one knows what would have happened if Obama had kept his word and either joined the rebel forces or backed Assad.
The displaced people are Syrians, and they should return to Syria.
Whatever happened to refugees leaving a battle-torn area and returning after the fighting stopped?
Whatever happened to refugees returning and being part of the solution by helping to rebuild their country?
11
I believe we just saw this policy with the Bahamians trying to find some refuge from the destruction of their homeland by Hurricane Dorian. Only it was pre-emptive on Trump's part--don't let them in at all if you can get away with it. And so far he is. I hope we privileged Americans never become refugees. If we do, we will get the generosity and love that we have given. Golden Rule/Karma 101.
37
We treated the Puerto Ricans also in a contemptuous manner throwing paper towels and providing minimal help.
We are an evil country. In these cases it’s about dark skin.
5
@Benny Crane
Remember the fellows holding up their hands and grinning as they played the game of "toss me the towels"?
That's a guy thing........enjoyed by the guy who tossed the towels and the guys who caught them.
I understood that.......why don't you?
2
@Benny Crane
Let's get it straight.
It was Donald Trump who threw those paper towels.
There are plenty of us who not only viewed that act with horror -- but knew they are American citizens and could find Puerto Rico on the map.
Where are the women? The photographs show one older woman looking anxiously from a distance at the camera while boys play freely in the street, another grim-faced woman in nearly full fundamentalist Islamic costume toting a baby at a border crossing, another wrapped in multiple layers of heavy clothing on the very edge of a street scene where the men are in shorts and short-sleeved shirts. Three among dozens and dozens of men. Where are the women?
53
@Hypatia. I noticed that too. I believe one point of contention in Turkey is that many of the Syrians are more conservative than Westernized Turks, especially in places like Istanbul, and the Turks feel their culture is under threat.
22
@Hypatia - from my time traveling in that part of the world, the women tend to not like to be photographed.
"Full fundamentalist Islamic costume" is her clothing if she belongs to a conservative sect. I saw Christian women in Syria wearing clothing like that - heads covered and all. They tended to live in the smaller towns and were older women.
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@Hypatia
Easy. They are in the kitchen. Yes, just what we need another 100,000 or more members of a misogynistic culture/religion. Great idea!
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I’m no fan of Erdogan and the role he played in Syria’s civil war. That being said neither Europe nor the United States (under both Obama & Trump) have handled this conflict effectively. Perhaps a settlement zone along the Turkish border is the best option available at this time. Administered by the UN with NATO & or others providing security & stability the flow of refugees can be mitigated. Regardless, the Syrian conflicts repercussion is not over. ISiS is resurgent as a terrorist force and Trump has bumbled the war in Afghanistan. This needs a long term commitment by the international community before it spins further into chaos & confusion. If the Syrian war and refugee crisis has taught us anything it’s that ignoring a regional crisis won’t make it less intrusive on your own daily reality. The world has grown too small for our indifference to act as a shield. Time to wake up to this new reality.
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No worries.
American Democratic presidential candidates and Congresspersons will travel to Turkey to inspect the camps along the border, record sound bites, and then work to embarrass the Turkish government into accepting the refugees.
Because all refugees are equal. Right ?
16
Way to turn a serious problem into partisan sniping. And we wonder why our politics are so toxic.
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@Chuck Burton you never said he was wrong tho. Bc you know it’s true.
1
Some people fight to make their homes a better place, some try to run away. When the world was empty and wild this was fine. 8B people later there is no where to run.
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The Turkish government is desperate to bail out the country's unraveling economy, blaming refugees while ignoring the billions in hard currency the country spends every year for petroleum.
Add to this the billions more wasted every year on fruitless wars, both inside Turkey and on its neighbors' territory. Erdogan has been the boss in Turkey for over 15 years, his promises of a greater Turkish empire and Middle Eastern hegemony proved to be empty with the collapse of its proxy ISIS and the survival of Assad.
Ordinary Turks are tired of war, mothers are tired of sons coming home in boxes. That the Turks are also fed up with refugees is sensible, they are another product of Erdogan's incessant meddling.
Syrian migrants in Europe are chickens coming home to roost. NATO cynically played the Islamic militants against Assad hoping to get rid of him and them at the same time, leaving Erdogan as the bag-holder in case anything went wrong. Everything seems to be playing out according to plan in that Assad looks to outlast the Turkish president.
4
Turkey is a relatively small and a relatively poor country that took in, housed, and fed EIGHT MILLION refugees, no questions asked. Europe balked when a couple hundred thousand entered their ranks, imagine what it's like when you're population grows by 10% almost overnight. The Turks did more for the Syrians than anyone else in Europe, but even they have their breaking point. Now that Turkey's economy is tanking and Turks are really feeling the pinch (food prices have spiked, not to mention larger purchases like vehicles which are sold in Euros, resulting in the equivalent of an American having to spend $200,000 on a Honda Civic).
While I pity the refugees, I understand why Turkey is doing what it needs to do, and I thank them for all they have tried to do for the Syrians these past few years.
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@Kristina The EU has paid Turkey billions to keep the refugees in Turkey. What one refugee costs per European country could pay for 200+ in Turkey or near their country of origin.
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@Kristina : beautifully written comment and i wholeheartedly agree that we owe a great debt to Turkey for shouldering the lion's share of the syrian refugee problem.
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@Harry - If it was so simple then the EU could have kept their money and accepted the refugees. Right?
First of all, EU paid only half of the money agreed, while Turkey is taking care of these millions of refugees for years now.
Secondly, most European countries even objected to couple of 1000 refugees. It is therefore obvious that these countries don't mind about the refugees and would do anything to keep them out. Even if they have to pay for it .
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“Erdogan is pushing a radical solution — resettling refugees in a swath of Syrian territory controlled by the United States and its Kurdish allies. If that does not happen, he is threatening to send a flood of Syrian migrants to Europe.”
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I want to thank the New York Times for this superb reporting - and especially the photographs. Well don.
I wish the USA would welcome some of the Syrians to come live in our country. They would be a valuable addition to our society and workforce. Alas, we have too many narrow-minded immigrant haters here. They can't see that our vibrant country and national fabric is beutiful and strong because of such people yearning to breathe free. That's the country I know and love - my United States. E Pluribus Unum.
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@Barbyr
In 1955, Syria had less than 4 million people. By 2010, the population had more than quadrupled.
Much of Syria is arid. It does not have enough water to support a large population. Farmers had to continually dig deeper wells. by 2011, many farmers had given up and had taken their large families to the cities where they looked for work. Once there, many joined the struggle against Assad. Overpopulation can use up natural resources and lead to war.
Below are excerpts from a 6/3/10 Reuters article titled "Syria grapples with surging population” written before the conflict began:
"Ibrahim Issa, a jovial Syrian taxi-driver who wears a blue robe over an ample belly, has nine children from two wives. He plans to marry a third wife soon. He says it is up to Allah whether more children arrive, and not for him to interfere, say, by using contraception.”
"Syria now has a population of 20 million people, with a growth rate that remains one of the world’s highest at about 2.4 percent.”
Most of the western half of the U.S. is also arid and suffers from water shortages. We cannot accept huge numbers of migrants, especially those who do not believe in birth control.
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The photography for this article is beautiful -- artistically and narratively it's amazing.
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I’ve been hoping for the political defeat on Erdogan based on his authoritarian tendencies. I thought the people of Turkey were fed up for the same reasons but it looks like xenophobia also plays a major role. The adoption of refugees may be the most humanitarian action from Erdogan. Seems like the Turks are intent on undoing the one good thing he did instead of the many bad things. Let’s hope the refugees can continue to be safe upon their return to Syria. It will be a tense moment and require vigilance from the US and allies.
5
Turkey has done an amazing and unappreciated job in accepting millions of refugees and given them decent places to live. Has any other country done as much for any refugee group? But now, it's time to re-settle these folks and let them begin normal lives again. I don't like Erdogan, but this sounds like a reasonable plan.
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@Shann
Yes, Jordan has done as much or more than Turkey. They've fed and educated millions from Syria.
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This is going to bring more pressure on the west to take in yet another wave of refugees from the ME. Given the instability of that region, it is a never ending situation. As unpleasant as it will be, the west needs to resist this blackmail and push for solutions that allow these people to stay/return to their home countries. The idea that the millions of displaced/unhappy/unemployed/even endangered refugees around the planet can just move west is a non starter. That solution was for another time when the numbers were not over whelming as they are now. The numbers we face today are capable of destabilizing the very countries they want to go to. World refugee day says there are 70 million potential immigrants around the world. Next year there will be 10s of millions more. A new way of looking at this issue is needed.
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This was inevitable. But the fact remains that Europe cannot, and will not continue to absorb the masses of Syrian and other refugees coming to their shores.
The signs are already there.
And while not all places of Syria may be stable and safe, there are still areas where these war-weary people should have the right to return to.
To be sure, Recep Tayip Erdogan will never change his sentiments towards the Kurds and as is, he's not exactly open to being a NATO member as well -- which is why he's capitalizing on his new found friendship with Russia.
Any way you look at it, there's no easy solution and no getting away from the fact that in the end, it is Bashar al-Assad who's to blame for it all.
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No. We are to blame. We threw gasoline on the embers. Bush snd Obama equally culpable.
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@Benny Crane
If in all honesty you think there's only one country or political leader to blame, then you are SERIOUSLY misinformed.
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What this new and sad episode in the treatment of Syrian refugees as bargaining chips exposes is the inadequacy of the current international conventions on refugees and migrants. Just imagine the chaos and brutality that lie in store for the inevitable tide of climate change refugees if these issues are not addressed and sorted out.
As to Turkey, were not the lives and wellbeing of millions being toyed with, its strategy temporarily solves some of its more immediate problems. The influx of Syrian refugees is undermining its economy and social fabric. It has received billions from the E.U. to keep them out of Europe and is setting itself up to shake that money tree again. Kurdish separatism remains a constant headache to Turkish hegemony and the last thing it wants to see is a viable Kurdish state across the border.
So, Turkey is attempting an interesting gambit to hobble the nascent autonomous Kurdish state in Syria by flooding it with Arabs (thereby destroying the possibility of a Kurdish majority there) and offloading onto the Kurds the attendant huge costs of keeping them. The question is how to accomplish this? Will the Syrians move voluntarily or at the point of a bayonet? Will the Kurds resist or isolate them in camps and seek international assistance.
And what position will the US, whose troops are there, take should this transfer of people be attempted? Using innocent people as pawns in larger geopolitical games is always distasteful but 'twas ever thus.
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@Charlie in NY For the record, the Arabs that Turkey is trying to send back, came from the "Kurdish territories" in Syria.
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You can not flood a culture with one that is vastly different and expect things to work. Integrating smaller groups to different regions of the world does work. Unfortunately many countries or regions will not accept anyone different then themselves.
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@Canewielder
One big problem. There are not "small numbers", there are millions. The Middle East needs to join the 21st century. This will involve: democracy, educating women, tolerance for different religions and ethnicities, birth control and an acceptance of secular values. If they aren't willing to do this, we are under no obligation to just be their population pressure relief valve.
18
Solutions work only when both sides are willing to give and take. What I saw in Turkey is a great resentment towards Syrians and government. In some towns, local people cannot go to parks because they are filled with Syrians with a very different culture. Government gave some benefits to Syrians that Turkish residents do not have. People believe that government will give citizenship to Syrians to create a conservative base that would vote for Erdogan. I am not sure how to better integrate two very different cultures in very short period of time, but the current situation is not going to last very long.
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@Sem
Interesting. We are told so often that the best thing that can happen, according to the left, is to mix completely different cultures and everybody is a winner and the country is always better. That seems to never actually happen in practice however.
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@al
I believe the ‘left’ strives for respectful acceptance of cultural differences. Human migration is something that will not go away. Mindful solutions are complex and require nations to work together. Turning a blind eye is or bussing them to another refugee camp is not humane.
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@Sem
Turkey isn't a monolith. Istanbul has had more Arabic people with the more secular side in the Asian part of town. Izmir is one of the most liberal cities is Turkey. The politics and culture varies across the country.
8
Turkish economy is not as powerful as it was a few years ago. It cannot provide jobs both for the turkish youth and the large number of immigrants from syria, iraq, afganistan, and other neighboring countries at the same time. Because of that, the unemployment rate is skyrocketed in the recent years and AKP couldn't win the local elections in major cities, which is the main cause for the recent policy.
21
What are the views of the US Democratic presidential candidates on this problem?
Do they want the refugees resettled, as it were, in the Kurdish-US zone in Syria?
Do they think that they should be settled in Turkey with options for integration and citizenship?
Europe?
US? Would a Democratic president open the gates of the US to these Syrian refugees?
Just as aside, the only one who winds in this is Bashir al-Assad.
7
I worked in Jordan with Syrian refugees in 2014 and it was not uncommon to see Syrian families with 15 or 16 children, in fact they were having babies just about every year even while living in the refugee camps. It was very hard for the government of Jordan to sustain this type of population growth. Turkey finds itself in the same situation.
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Those saying Turkey shouldn't send refugees back should look to the hardening policies of many EU countries as well. I mean, Italy has been rejecting boatloads of migrants under a populist government. Merkel also hardened her immigration stance after a domestic backlash in 2015.
I don't believe it is right for countries to keep accepting refugees indefinitely. Consider that Turkey has already let in the most refugees from Syria - 3.6 million.
The main problem was the conflict in Syria which displaced Syrians. When the "Arab Spring" started, the US and its gulf allies were quick to support anti-Assad opposition. This created a power vacuum in large parts of the country enabling the spread of Islamic State from Syria.
Under Assad, Syria wasn't that bad. It was secular: Druze, Christians and Alawites had freedom of worship. The face veil wasn't worn. It was also a middle-income economy: many of the refugees who fled are actually doctors or engineers or have had tertiary education at least.
Maybe the US and its gulf allies shouldn't have armed rebel groups in Syria? Now it's countries like Turkey and Sweden who are suffering even while Trump hardens immigration policy. Instead of changing immigration policy, why not change foreign policy?
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We caused the 500,000 deaths and the millions of migrants. Credit George W Bush who has done more harm to our country and to the Middle East as well than any other entity.
7
@Jack you must have missed when Turkey was found providing arms to ISIS. This isn’t the West and the Gulf vs. Syria and Russia. Every single player had had different reasons for their involvement in this mess, Turkey included. Turkey would arm anyone to ensure that the Kurds do not receive their own territory on the Turkish border, so they supported ISIS.
Refuge: "a condition of being safe or sheltered from pursuit, danger, or trouble."
Refugees should always be granted shelter as a human right, but that does not mean they should be allowed to immigrate permanently. The danger of conflating the two, as many on both the left and the right have done, actually endangers refugees by leaving neighboring countries, and further away ones in the west, wary of letting people in when they know it will be a nightmare to get them out when it is safe for them to return. The system of asylum and refuge must be kept separate and distinct from the immigration system in any country, in order to admit more refugees than a country would be willing to take as immigrants. The goal should be to save lives, period.
Trump's sick proposal to reduce US Refugee admissions to a trickle is telling, and it basically will shut the door to anyone who didn't aid US Forces directly in a conflict, such as Afghan Translators. Letting everyone who seeks refuge stay after the danger passes risks closing the doors to those in need.
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@Ken
The problem is, once anyone enters the U.S. either legally, illegally, "temporarily", or any other way, they essentially nevrr have to leave. A solution that does not involve simply moving everyone here has to be found. We cannot be the worlds, first, last and permanent place of resettlement. Solving problems in their home countries is the only longterm viable solution.
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@Al Given Because of this, and our birthright citizenship clause, the US has always been more suited to providing refuge for those involved in conflicts we were involved in. For instance, Cuba and Vietnam. In these cases the war is over, but safe return isn’t possible.
The vast majority of refugees should be handled like Turkey has done with Syria, given temporary safe harbor in a neighboring nation until the conflict is resolved. Syria wasn’t our fight, and the direct burden of refuge should fall on the nearest safe country.
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@Ken
Of coarse. Everyone knows, as soon as you get here, the goal is to have that citizen kid and you are home free. This is why, with the exception of the US and Canada, the western democracies have done away with birthright citizenship. It is an irresistible lure to immigration, legal, illegal, visa over stays and birth tourism etc. At 18 the kid can invite all the relatives in as well. It's the get in free pass.
10
The main problem is that Syria's largest city Aleppo was severely damaged in the war. Prior to the war it had a population of 2.5 million and sustained industry that allowed a middle class to flourish. Assad was throwing barrel bombs on civilian buildings non stop and he placed a siege in order to starve the people. Faced with ISIS in the east and Assad in the south there was no where for them to go but north to Turkey and eventually the EU. Had a safe zone been accomplished 5 years ago that included Aleppo the refugee crisis would not have been so dire.
8
This was always the plan, it's a sustainable way to keep people safe during conflict and now they can return home that the war is over.
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This follows a pattern seen in many countries during the last few years where unrestricted migration is originally supported until the negatives come to light, in which case the populace then turns agains unrestricted migration. This indicates there's a migration limit for a society of laws, which cannot be achieved through open borders.
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@Don Q Perhaps the world should not have sat on its hands back in 2012 when Syria began falling into a civil war. Then there would not be so many refugees from a broken country. There was a consequence for allowing the Assad regime to do what it wanted.
5
Another article that contains misinformations and tries to not understand of Turkish people.
Maybe US government stops to help Kurds to create a country by taking homes of locals in Northern Syria and lets Turkey to build refugee camp for Syrian Refugees in that land.
And I have a question for you to refresh your memory. Could you find those chemical weapons in Iraq?
First Iraq, then Syria. The next two are Iran and Turkey.
The aim is to create pro Israel and US Kurdish country.
19
@Orhan. Interesting comment especially when one makes an obvious comparison. The history, culture and language of the Kurdish people is distinct from those of the majority Arab, Turkish and Iranian majorities that rule over them. Nothing remotely similar can be said of the Palestinian Arabs whose history, culture and language is virtually indistinguishable from that of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. So why no country for the indigenous Kurds in any part of their historical homeland but one for the non-indigenous Palestinian Arabs in a land conquered and colonized by their forbears?
It is an historical reality that, at some point US power, like that of the Ottomans, British and French (to name but a few) before it, will be eclipsed by another - so I empathize with Turkish insecurity over having lost its status as a world power and it’s concern over losing even more territory. But your glory days are gone, never to return. So, what does Turkey gain by standing in the way of a Kurdish future that might benefit your country as well? Does it really wish to reap the whirlwind?
12
The refugees may have to try the East. The West has reached a breaking point unfortunately.
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@Matt If Turkey managed 3.6 million refugees for eight years and is only now reaching an economic and political breaking point on the issue of Syrian refugees it stands to reason that the US and EU are nowhere close to an economic breaking point on refugees. It’s all psychological and political in the West.
Turkey is in quite a pickle. It’s got most of the Syrian refugees and it’s nearly impotent in determining how events unfold across its border in Syria. It’s being told by the US and Russia what it can and cannot do. For all Turkey knows some of those returned refugees will boomerang back depending on how events develop in Syria.
12
@Matt
Yeah well maybe we need to ask ourselves why the "West has reached a breaking point"? What caused refugees to flee in the first place really has been poor US foreign policy.
1) Iraq
The US invasion of Iraq, triggered instability. Sunni and Shi'ite militias clashed continuously between 2003 and 2007. More than 300,000 Iraqis have died in post-invasion violence.
2) Syria
Syria under Assad was secular. Christians, Druze and Alawites all had freedom of worship. But when the "Arab Spring" started, the US began to call for "democracy". With its Gulf allies, it began arming anti-Assad forces. Saudis even armed the radical Al Nusra front. The power vacuum from fighting helped ISIS spread from Syria. The group massacred Druze, Yazidis, Christians, anyone really.
3) Libya
Libya under Gaddafi was a middle-income economy just like Syria under Assad. As a huge exporter of crude oil, healthcare and education were free for all citizens. Prior to the 2011 NATO intervention, no Libyans were crossing the Mediterranean. Those attempting to cross were from sub-Saharan African countries and were passing through Libya. The EU and Libya agreed to a framework for patrolling the Mediterranean. This framework collapsed after the intervention as Libya fragmented. It's no longer one country and its citizens have become refugees.
This is why the "West has reached a breaking point". Poor foreign policy. Just leave countries in the Middle East and North Africa alone.
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@Matt
America created much of the instability we are witnessing in the Middle East today by invading Iraq and creating a lawless vacuum that allowed terrorist groups to flourish. America washed it's hands of all responsibility and now the Middle Eastern and European nations are bearing the brunt of the refugee crisis.
11