Trump, as usual, is totally out of his league. This thrice bankrupt business man is a clueless about real world negotiations and international affairs. That people expected leadership and competence from Trump goes to the heart of the difficulties we face as a country.
Trump and Pompeo are directly negotiating with a terrorist group all the while excluding the democratically elected government just so Trump can fulfill a campaign promise. This was doomed to failure from the outset. So much for the US “principle” of promoting democracy around the world. If Obama has been this incompetent, the right wingers would have had a meltdown.
The whole reason Trump is negotiating with the Taliban is because his administration has not been able to defeat them. He has owned this war for nearly 3 years running and what little he has done has been ineffective. The Taliban have increased violent attacks on US and Afghan forces, and civilians. Corruption within the Afghan government continues to alienate those parts of the population that support the Taliban. And the other part has been terrorized into submission.
I wouldn’t trust a single word the Taliban says or single document that they sign. It was a horrible idea to invite the group complicit in the 9/11 attacks to Camp David.
1
A civil war, Afghan on Afghan violence, etc. is no concern of ours...here I mean the US, Canada, and other westerners.
Yes, we did go there, in error, to destroy that country but it was done by people who have never been brought to account, i.e. the Bushes, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. The people who wrote legal memos authorizing torture. We should root out the disease of waging war without proper justification from ourselves. We have created lots of issues. It would be better for us to disengage from all of this.
The Afghans have to know what is right for their country and how to go about fixing their problems. There are many examples in front of them on how proper institutions are created and processes put in place to have an organized government. Their's is a government of might is right.
The Talibans, I see them everywhere on TV, are a bunch of hoodlums, criminals, and why would anyone want to negotiate with them. If a "democratic" government in Afghanistan cannot deal with them then we must give them the technical knowhow (intelligence) and weaponry to completely obliterate the talibans. There is NO PLACE on this planet for the talibans. The talibans have created an obscene version of "islam" that has nothing to do with Islam. I am a Muslim, and do not understand the Taliban Islam. In fact, what the taliban preach, practice and enforce on its population is NOT ISLAM.
1
The Taliban can’t be trusted even if we reach an agreement. We’ll need some troops to keep an eye on them.
Another strategy that’s not being discussed here is to have India send their troops. They have a vested interest in the region of not wanting another terrorist haven. We could offer air and technical support to Indian ground troops. The Pakistanis won’t like that but they’re part of the problem too!
World War II started after the expansion of the right wing in Germany. The US participated at the end of the war to start The New World Order which is in other words a new right wing system and since then the U S is at the top of the pyramid. With the globalization on one hand and fighting terrorism in disguise. The invasion of Iraq in 2003 and Afghanistan is fighting terrorism after the 9/11 pretext. Now Russia and China is feeling the the new Right wing expansion and slowly they are uniting, in anticipation that a WWIII is inevitable.
2
There is no negotiating with the Taliban. Even IF you had some semblance of confidence that you had a stable representative from their side negotiating in good faith, the entire "organization" is so fractured, there's no telling that an agreement reached today or next week would be kept next year or the one after, post-withdrawal of US forces.
We've been approaching this engagement wrong from the start. Let's drop the fiction that we're committed to "bringing 'Murican Democracy" as a primary objective. Even if that was our goal and not war profiteering, a nation like Afghanistan doesn't turn democratic b/c of external pressure. They either attain fair governance organically from within, or they just never will. All we should be interested in is prevention of terrorist cells using Afghanistan as a base from which to attack us. Whatever govmt model the Afghanis select, who cares, as long as they understand that we will not tolerate another 9/11. Such a message could be sent by perhaps a targeted display of weaponry, similar to the argument made by some scientists regarding a test of the atomic bomb to convey to ww2 Japan what type of destruction they were confronted with.
2
"Negotiating with the Taliban" is a contradiction. The Taliban are waiting to take over the country, once the US pulls out. The Afghan government and the Afghan people are incapable of the sacrifices necessary to defeat fanatic terrorists.
2
Shortly after 9/11 I heard Trump brag to the media stating “Now 44 Bank Street is the tallest building.” Fast forward to 2015 and in election mode he claimed that there were “thousands of people cheering in Jersey City” implying they were Muslims, and, again, bragged that he was at Ground Zero. He was not anywhere near the carnage and there were no Muslims cheering.
Like a child out of the film “The Bad Seed” Trump inserted himself in a deeply serious foreign policy discussion and forced all parties to retreat. Moreover, he apparently suggested the asinine invitation to host the Taliban at Camp David the same week of the anniversary of 9/11.
His hubris and ignorance are ruining the world economy and his need for adulation may just cause WWIII. There are now absolutely no checks on this presidency. He killed the nanny!
4
If we really killed 1000 Taliban in 10 days (which I'm sure is total hogwash) then we should stay another 250 days after which there will be none left. Problem solved. See how easy ?
1
Here is my uptake on the seemingly erratic action of Trump.
Some time ago, Mr Trump witnessed Bastille Day Parade in Paris. Poor guy was absolutely baffled at the magnificence of the show. He wanted an even grander spectacle staged in Washington. The city administration and Pentagon denied him his wish – Trump’s show lacked quality and grandeur of the French. Humble pie.
Next, at the G7 meeting, this year, the French President, to the surprise of others, invited the Iranian Foreign Minister, Dr Zarif, to the meeting. Another Humble Pie.
Poor Trump (not in dollars, but spirit), devised a strategy to out-do the style of the French President. Trump’s Grand STRATEGY was: invite the Afghan National Negotiators (the Taliban) and the American Installed Rulers of Afghanistan, to Camp Davis, and get them to accept TEMPORARY Agreement, announce it DRAMATICALLY; and BASK in the GLORY. However, the problem was the invitation to the Afghan Legitimate Government was SECRET. And the ILLEGITIMATE ones objected to it.
The illegitimate ones got the meeting cancelled. So Sad. So Sad.
1
I am appalled and troubled by the fact that Trump, Pompeo and Bolton seem to have cynically seized on the death of a US service member in Afghanistan as an excuse to call off a meeting that should never have been scheduled. These negotiations have been going on for a year, during which time other service members have died and never did our negotiators make a ceasefire part of the deal to keep talking. It is disgusting that these three, who never served a day, would use an American soldier’s death in the line of duty for cheap political theater and to save Trump’s pride. The words craven, unAmerican, and dangerous come to mind.
3
I am an American but regard Afghand as brothers. I am sorry to say that Trump has no wish to end the war in Afghanistan utill a single Afghan remains standing as a FREE MAN. The idea is to humilate Afghans, put American loaned uniforms on some Afghans and send them to the killing fields to do the JOB. Taliban should continue to bring enlightenment to Afghan nation.
@Chaudri the peacenik, you used the words "Taliban" and "enlightenment" in the same sentence?? This is the organization that sanctioned an assassination of a young girl on a school bus? I don't believe the word 'enlightened' in the English tongue means what you think it means.
1
The lessons of history. Ignored. Yet again.
The British tangled with Afghanistan at least three times over the last two hundred years. The Soviet Union exited ignominiously after nine years. The US is contemplating an exit after maintaining a presence in Afghanistan for twice as long as the Soviets.
The Taliban are mostly Pashtuns, and tribal conflict and Pashtunwali--the Pashtun honor code--dominate life in Afghanistan.
The key to any negotiation with the Taliban is Pakistan. Pakistan harbored and protected Osama bin Laden. Pakistan protects and harbors the Taliban and is a pipeline to a seemingly never-ending supply of jihadists. The US has to secure firm guarantees from Pakistan that it will reign in the Taliban--a dubious proposition at best. Neither Pakistan or the Taliban can be trusted.
The US cannot withdraw all its troops unless it is willing to allow Afghanistan to devolve immediately into civil war, just as after the Soviet withdrawal, with Kabul the epicenter of such a conflict.
There is a good chance that Ashraf Ghani will be assassinated, unless--or even if--he kowtows to the Taliban. The Taliban executed and mutilated Najibullah and his brother Ahmadzai. They assassinated Benazir Bhutto.
For Trump this was supposed to be a public relations coup, merely another path to a Nobel Peace Prize. He is negotiating from a position of extreme weakness.
It is not going to happen. Afghanistan is on the brink of another full-blown civil war.
4
Here is what might have happened. Modi whispered an idea in Trump's ear that if he helps India get back the rest of Kashmir then India would happily send it's troops into Afghanistan via the regained land route. Thus USA will be able to pull out it's army, without any hassles, while Indians fight the Taliban!
Sounds incredible? But, with Trump what has ever been credible?
I cannot imagine how our chief negotiator Zalmay Khalilzad, who has worked for decades for multiple administrations, feels after his delicate and meticulous work has been completely upended by Trump’s desire for a PR photo shoot at Camp David, with the Taliban no less.
1
Being a non-political person Mr. Trump is trying things which might be good in long run.
2
Why are we negotiating with these people. Let’s learn what the Russians learned in 1989. You can’t win over there. Just get our people out.
4
Americans won the Afghanistan War in five weeks. Cold hard fact , five weeks. Then we said it was about finding Osama Bin laden. Then it was about the woman and little girls being mistreated. Then building a new government. It's all Lies.
It's about money. CIA wants their cut and the paid mercenary killers we hire want their cut .The politicians on both parties and both countries want their cut. We won the war dropping about 250 million down.
Now with all the war profiteers fatted up immensely we are 3 trillion deep with no end in site.
Please elect Bernie so we can spend our taxes on us for once.
4
@gene
You summarized it very well, Gene.
2
Where's Russia in all of this?
1
@Cleo
Laughing their tails off. Russian generals wrote books on why invading Afghanistan is a bad idea.
The Kremlin actually send some of these books to the White House and the Pentagon.
After 20 years their military is beginning to recover from Afghanistan.
2
President Trump has been an awful President. However, with his now single and simple minded effort to get re-elected, we may be entering the worst part of tenure. He cares little about the American people, except for his limited “base.” I assume he will pull more stints like inviting the Taliban to Camp David. What an embarrassment.
3
The Taliban will kill and Trump will declare victory and cave.
We've seen this movie before.
@vbering
We should have done this cave and declare victory 18 years ago.
Better now than never.
1
In this matter, Trump may have been naive, but not ill-intentioned. (I'm no fan of his.) However, his motivations and even his actions in dealing with the Taliban are irrelevant, as are those of any actor, no matter how major a figure on the world stage. The Taliban are what they are: fanatical, treacherous and murderous. The Ghani regime is no offset; it's notoriously corrupt, ineffectual and unpopular.
The Afghan people will have to sort out this terrible situation.
No solution imposed on them by foreign powers will ever bring peace. Trump should not listen to our military, whose business is war, and which has long fought a losing battle against the insurgents. One of my relatives, a captain in the U.S. army, was killed in Afghanistan by a suicide bomber likely aided and abetted by the local populace in the deadly sinkhole that is Afghanistan.
Enough of our wonderful young people have died there, and enough of our resources wasted. We need to get out.
9
@Enough- Start a vanity war without a goal or much of a plan and It doesn’t work out (big surprise), cut and run away. That’s how we do these days. And because we do it with enlistees, Army Reservists and National Guardsmen no one cares. At least our political masters and our military leaders have learned not to fight with draftees. Where is the outrage as repeated vanity wars succeed in only one thing- getting young America men and women warriors killed? Use draftees and you will see outrage. Otherwise, who cares- but don’t try it with my sons!
2
The only reason we have remained in Afghanistan for so many years is to stave off the inevitable collapse of Afghanistan into its natural state of tyranny and violence at the hands of tribal warlords. It doesn't matter when we leave, or how we leave, treaty or no treaty, that will be the result of it.
It is just a matter of whether we have the courage and honesty to recognize this, and to withdraw every last American from that country.
We should do so and be proud that we tried to build a stable democracy with improved humanitarian infrastructure in that country, an enormously decent response to the trauma we experienced on 9/11.
5
@Livonian
The trauma of 9/11 was not the work of Afghans or the Afghan government.
Our 18 year intervention was not very humane and not something to be proud of.
1
I thought we didn't negotiate with terrorists.
The bottom line is that the Taliban will overthrow the Afghan government the moment the US pulls out. General Mattis warned Trump about this (and warned him that a US presence will be required in Afghanistan for years to come) - but unfortunately, President Trump does not hear what others say. He gets his advice from himself.
4
@Cliff How much more blood and treasure do we expend to prevent having to watch Mattis's advice be fulfilled. If that's the end anyhow, then Trump has this about right.
1
@Cliff
The Taliban will seek to expand their mandate whether we leave in 2019, 2021, 2026 or 2030.
So why put off the inevitable?
2
Mr. Trump has NONE of the diplomatic, intellectual and negotiating skills to conduct discussions with the Taliban or anybody else.
Mr. Trump is a "Richie Rich" trust fund 0.1%'ter whose personal business record is replete with bankruptcies, dubious or illegal business and charitable transactions on top of a demonstrated congenital inability, to be honest, candid and honorable.
3
@Memnon
But Zalmay Khalizad actually does have the diplomatic experience and the intellectual range for the task. And he is an American born in Afghanistan.
Zal was doing quit well on this front.
1
This is a shallow article, more interested in taking pot shots at Trump's many personal foibles than explaning the reality that the US has zero leverage in any "peace" deal it will put together with the Taliban. We never had any meaning leverage, under any president.
We ARE going to leave Afghanistan sooner than later, one way or another, and Afghanistan WILL become ruled by the Taliban once again. Period.
It's just a matter of a president having the courage to pull the plug.
I wish Obama had, but of course, the Republicans would have savaged him as "cutting and running," and being "weak on terror."
Looks like the NYT is more interested in helping to delay the correct and inevitable decision which Trump might be ready to make, simply because it would be Trump making it. Maybe were not much less tribal than Afghanistan.
2
@Livonian
Afghanistan, as a whole, will NOT be ruled by the Taliban when we leave
They will gain control in their homeland, the Pushtun South.
The Northern Alliance warlords will create a form of government for the Tajik/Uzbek regions.
Pakistan will finance and support the Taliban south and India, Russia and China will finance and support the Tajik north.
1
TYPICAL Trump negotiating formulae is: Make an agreement, and then start the renegotiations; abrogate from the renegotiated deal. Repeat it over several rounds. If it still does not work, and the other part is impervious to threats, declare bankruptcy. America has to realise that the decision of this this ME-ME-ME man could easily result in another million Afghans deaths, and some American deaths too.
1
"...it was unclear where Mr. Trump would go from here."
I will make two wild guesses:
1. It is about to get very bloody in Afghanistan. Now would not be a good time to be a member of the Taliban.
2. Trump pulls a Trump and finds away to return to the negotiating table. His ego requires him to try and pull off what would be a crowning moment in recent presidential history. With him receiving (unjust) credit.
As with all things Trump, things could go in any direction. As long as he is the center of attention.
1
September 9, 2019
For the Taliban culture killing fields is doctrine for all: domestic and or foreign, and that is all yeah need to know.
However, for those that demand a global humanity; then we have the problem of engineering the forces of fluid mechanics in bloodletting towards a goal to establishing a higher mightier path that induces the shared world for humanity on earth and with moderation and evolutionary adaptation for the reconciliation of our world upright for brothers and sisters to live smart, well, and with the higher dignity for what the intellectuals name as our universal soul - would you agree?
1
The Taliban is an out and out Islamic terror group. Under their control the Afghans were systematically brutalized in particular the women. They were created by the Pakistani military and intelligence apparatus. While financed by the Saudis, they are being managed, trained, and supported by the Pakistanis.
The whole peace process nonsense is a ruse by the Pakistanis to have the US help them out of the economic mess they are in. In particular, they want US help with the FATF (Financial Action Task Force). The FATF last year placed Pakistan on the grey list of countries whose domestic laws are considered weak to tackle the challenges of money laundering and terrorism financing.
To think for one minute that the Pakistanis/Taliban will abide by any peace terms is ignorance of the highest order. When will we ever learn?
3
The Reporters (Sanger & Mashal) inform us that the Taliban were holding back on gun-powder, and will probably now be incentivized to disrupt the election, called by the American Occupation Installed Afghan Rulers.
The obvious and logical conclusion is: AMERICA WANTS TO PROLONGE THE OCCUPATION, and INCREASE THE DEATHS AND DESTRUCTION OF AFGHANISTAN.
He’s lusts after that Nobel Prize. It’s his only motivation. He’s desperate for love and, unfortunately, is unloveable. I’m assuming something ruined him in his childhood. A shame, really.
Money can’t buy you love.
2
When did it all start?
Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) ... According to former CIA official Robert Gates, "the Carter administration turned to CIA ... to counter Soviet and ..... Anand Gopal, et al, "Taliban in North Waziristan" in Talibanistan: Negotiating the Borders Between Terror, Politics, ...
Well, we had no business in Afghanistan, starting with day one back in 1979. But the Russians made us do it. Typical neo-con reasoning.
Taliban will not find a better friend than Trump. Both are conmen.
1
Exit Afganistan if we must, but do not sign a deal with Taliban or Pakistan, both of them represent the same implacable, cunning enemy, islamic bigotry and extremism and legitimize them.
3
The whole idea of negotiating peace with a terrorist group, without the legitimate government (you can argue a case for a corrupt government, but it is just as legitimate as our president), is just mind boggling. Meanwhile we have no nuke agreement with Iran and we are giving nuke technology to the saudis gratis. Great job America
2
Up until now, Trump’s missteps and mishandling of the job of being president have been tolerated by his backers as necessary to achieve their goals., in the process, they have put our country into the hands of a profoundly incompetent, foolish man, His
senseless acts go unchallenged by most of them as the number of them running for the exits increases.
This latest stunt of inviting the Taliban into our country insults our brave men and women who died at their hands. What’s next? Kim Jong Un in the Oval Office and a state dinner?
Democrats need to step up the impeachment proceedings asap. I doubt that will do anything to improve his reelection chances and national security is at stake.
His recklessness is accelerating daily.
18
Afghanistan is "bracing for violence"? Back to normal is more like it.
6
#Afghexit? Put Boris in charge.
2
HA !
The Afghans are like the Chinese.
Wait out Trump, make him look crippled and ineffectual. I would say the Taliban watch the news just as much as us, and they understand Geopolitics just fine.
2
GW Bush never had an exit plan from the beginning and this is the result of that lack of planning. Its past time we remove our troops, dogs and ALL military equipment out of Afghanistan so the Taliban, nor ISIS, can ever make use of any of it!
5
I don't believe that the murder of the American soldier had anything to do with Trump's decision. He had second thoughts about reaching the agreement and then used the death of the American solider as an out to turn his back on the negotiations.
5
Afghans have a proud past. They blew away the Brits, then the Russians, and now the Americans. A matchless record of courage and bravery. Beats the measly Vietnamese record of just France and the U.S.
Yeah they have a great record of racism and oppressive violence.
1
@justice, sounds like such a great place; when are you emigrating?
@justice
Afghans are insular, provincial and xenophobic (sound anything like our Pres?)
But it is their country in which the choose to be insular, provincial and xenophobic.
Over the past 50 years I have spent considerable chunks of my life in Afghanistan - under the king, under Dictator Daoud, and under the US installed presidents.
If you deal with Afghans on their own terms (remembering you are in their house) they can be quite good company. The are garrulous story tellers. They can be funny and they can be very hospitable - again, provided that you act like a guest in their house.
It helps if you speak the language and enjoy eating roast mutton and naan.
1
How many innocent Afghanis will die because of Trump's publicity stunt?
4
People are going to die because of the utter incompetence of this administration to negotiate. To paraphrase an old saying, they couldn't pour water from a boot if the directions were written on the heel.
Many Americans and Afghan's died over the last two decades that we've been involved in this debacle. We dishonor their sacrifice with the way we are negotiating this.
Vote Blue. Blind loyalty isn't patriotism. It's stupidity hiding behind a mask.
3
The peoples of the Middle East have been fighting each other for over 1,000 years. They are in love with violence and retribution. We have been there a very long time and have changed nothing.
The decision has been made to withdraw. All of this posturing is just to save face, it means nothing. Leave, leave now. Cut off all parties in the Middle East, yes that includes Israel, and come home. Let us improve our roads, feed our hungry, house our homeless, fix our water systems.
Let the people of the Middle East find their own way to peace, they are the only ones who can. If they choose not to, then perhaps when the ground has cooled, the next immigrants will be smarter.
7
Uh, Bruce...you DO know where Afghanistan is, yes?
@Robert
Yes, but it is all part of the same insanity, and the Middle East, while not geographically correct, is politically correct, and a convenient short hand.
"Tried to gain a negotiating advantage" (Pompeo) by killing one more American. Just an excuse. The bloodshed hasn't let up since the beginning of "peace" talks. Plus, the Taliban already have a negotiating advantage since it's very clear the United States wants out, Trump especially, because he wants a political "win." Given all this, I find the photograph of American leaders bowing their heads before the fallen American soldier truly disgusting. They don't deserve to lick his boots.
4
So, Gentle People, here is the issue. Forget Trump.
I would not preclude an agreement if the terms are acceptable, but please don’t expect it to last. If you know anything about the Taliban, you know they are militant Islamics of the most strict and reprehensible type. Do not expect them to nicely share power with the current government. They won’t. Don’t expect them to stop repressively treating young girls and women. They won’t. Don’t expect them to stop facilitating terrorist activity. They won’t. Once US troops are gone, they will completely revert back to their backwards theology and politics regardless of what is on paper. They may not overtly openly initially support terrorists bent on US destruction since they know that could trigger massive punishment. But they know we will not punish them for other bad behavior they will visit upon their own county when we pull out. Yes, I know to stay involved means more sacrifice and treasure spent. It’s a terrible choice either way. And perhaps we must pull out and try this approach. But, do not be surprised when they revert to their old ways. Religious zealots with poor cultural norms do not change their spots. They just want us out so they can return to running the county as they did before. At least go in with eyes wide open if you support withdrawal and a so called ‘peace aggreement’......
6
The title, “After Trump Calls Off Talks, Afghanistan Braces for Violence”, which I’m quoting because NYT usually starts with an absurd headline but changes it to something reasonable after a day or two, implies that any violence that happens is Trumps fault.
Another fine example of anti trump rhetoric wrapped into a news story.
1
This is the rare time I agree with the White House. One cannot hold "peace" talks with someone who continues to kill and bomb and maim people, all the white pretending to be talking. Leaving Afghanistan to the Taliban would definitely make the last 18 years worthless and the blood spilled for naught. Taliban is NOT the party to negotiate with, just like we don't negotiate with Al Queda or Isil. They are fruits of a drastically poisonous tree.
1
Uh...seems none of that bothered Trump a bit over the last year or so. Why now?
1
After 9/11 going to Afghanistan to stamp the Taliban flat was exactly the right thing to do. It did not occur to most that, despite historical examples of Afghanistan as the graveyard of empires, the Taliban would not stay stamped. There is some ironic justice in our predicament, given that we helped create the Taliban during the occupation by the Soviet Union. (Thanks, Reagan and the Neocons!)
Better to have left 10 years ago. Better to leave now than to stay indefinitely.
6
@Richard Schumacher "Better to have left 10 years ago. Better to leave now than to stay indefinitely."
Yes. Sunk cost is never a good reason to persist in an unwinnable military endeavor.
1
Trump told us what a great deal maker he would be.... We're still waiting for that health care plan that we were all going to love. He has no qualifications at all to sit at a world table representing this country, much less to sit in the Oval Office. We've been had, folks, and it's going to take a long time too recover.
4
Sounds more like a rushed TV production failed instead of a serious diplomatic effort. Leaving the Afghan government out of the negotiations stands out as a sign that the diplomatic efforts were incomplete or secondary to the purpose of the Camp David media event. With the Democratic debates taking media attention, it appears to be a blatant attempt to control media attention.
2
@Austin Al
There is no "government of Afghanistan"
There is an imaginary sort of "government" in Kabul which does not govern he nation.
When we left Vietnam, we did not include Saigon in our negotiations with North Vietnam. Because Saigon no longer governed South Vietnam.
1
The difference John is we pulled out in basically a semi organized retreat from Vietnam. We were unable and unwilling to hold the North back from sweeping over the South. The American people decided it was no longer a viable or realistic goal, and one certainly not worth the price we paid. We can keep the Taliban at bay forever if we are willing to pay the price. They are not a superior military force or even close. The question becomes is it worth the price? Has it been worth the price? The hard answer is no. That should not make us feel any better to leave the decent people with hopes and dreams, and all of the aspirational girls and women who will remain under the repressive thumb of the brutal version of Islam practiced by the Taliban. One can argue for the average Vietnamese living today things did not turn out badly for them in the long term after we left. That will not be the case for those living under Taliban rule. Still, is it up to the US to right every wrong of which there are many across the globe? It is simply not possible. We need to redouble efforts in our own house. Once the US citizenry says enough is enough regarding nation building in another country, and it continues to not work even after much sacrifice, then we must depart. And that is where we are.
1
@Wilmington EDT
I appreciate the spirit of your comment.
Afghan girls may yet have a chance. In the Afghanistan of King Zahir Shar and Dictator Daoud they were half the student body at Kabul university and half of the civil service.
It is not written in stone that the Taliban will rule all of Afghanistan.
I expect them to dominate the Pashtun South and I expect the Northern Alliance Warlords (Tajiks and Uzbeks) will rule the north.
Girls in the North may do all right.
It seems to me that we have "supposedly" spent a lot in both money and people training Afghans to police and soldier their own country. We need to leave and let them take advantage of all that training!
1
It seems to me that people have forgotten how wars are fought and won. To win, we need to have the desire to win, no matter the cost. No safe havens anywhere, including Pakistan. If you protect, hide, and/or support an enemy, then you are a legitimate target. We needed two atomic bombs to make Japan realize that they had no chance to win and that their enemy was ready to wipe them off. Germany had almost all its cities flattened. before they surrendered. Only then, when we decide to erradicate them from the face of the Earth, and we have the means to do so, the Taliban will ask for peace.
4
@Ovi
To "win" a war, the nation propogating that war needs several things:
1) a definable "war aim"
2) a deep and genuine stake in the outcome
3) political will at home
4) a competent army that stays in the fight and does not rotate home after 12 months
5) a sophisticated understanding of the "enemy: including his culture, values, language, motivations, etc
America broght none of these five things to its feckless engagement in Afghanistan.
We were destined to "lose" and we have, for all practical purposes "lost"
1
@John B
Agree, but you would expect that a country like ours would go to war with a very clear military objective, a political class and a sizable percentage of the population supporting the war effort, and an intelligence apparatus that would produce enough information about where we are going to, who we are dealing with (enemies and friends), terrain, etc. Our political and military standing today shows you that the Neo Cons were only interested in scoring political gains at the expense of the country. Still, if you send your kids to die, the least you can do is make sure that those on the other size pay dearly for their actions. Wars are serious businesses, not XBox games... If we do not see it that way, then we better keep our boys home.
@Ovi "Wars are serious businesses, not XBox games... If we do not see it that way, then we better keep our boys home."
Precisely.
War truly is serious business.
Too serious to be left to Generals.
Too serious to be left to a feckless President.
An extensive congressional debate. A congressional declaration of war. Conscription to ensure that most Americans have skin in the game.
That is how it should be done
It should be noted that the Taliban were not responsible for 9/11, but rather Wahabbist Saudis. Saudi Arabia still funds Wahabbist madrassas (religious schools) and mans them with Wahabbist imams, even in the US. The Afghans have been at war for thousands of years. It is called the graveyard of empires for good reason. Trump did not have career diplomats involved except for our chief negotiator, had no clear and comprehensive articles agreed upon by both the Taliban and the Afghan government. Trump's fecklessly amateur and narcissistic exercise has wasted a great deal of our national influence and prestige which we may never recover.
6
@Dave, your simplistic analysis neglects the role the Afghan Taliban played in providing material and logistical support to Bin Laden. BOTH groups had culpability.
Commenter Dan of Israel points out the "obvious," though he notes that it seems far from obvious to Trump's critics:
"The truth of the matter, is that all peace negotiotations are done with your enemy ..."
You don't negotiate "peace" with a group that's already on your side. You negotiate (if at all) with your enemy. It's always been that way, it is that way now, and it always will be that way.
And while peace negotiations are taking place, the other side may well try to strengthen its hand by fighting harder -- for example, by having a suicide bomber blow himself up in a crowded market. Very rarely will the other side act less violently during peace negotiations since it will understand that its violent behavior is what brought you to consider peace negotiations in the first place.
Trump's sin here is NOT wanting to continue the Afghanistan War. That's his opponents' sin. Trump's sin lies in his thinking that the US has significant bargaining power here. No question that the Taliban would prefer that no US troops remain in Afghanistan, but they also know that that's going to happen soon whether they cut a deal or not. And the Taliban also know that US troops will leave more quickly -- not less quickly -- if the Taliban behave more violently until that occurs.
Both Trump and his critics somehow miss the obvious here.
2
As far as I'm concerned we did what we set out to do. Find the people responsible for the attacks on September 11. We will never be able to get every single person. I'm fine with that because I truly believe God will punish them way better than we ever could. I would hope the Afghan people are sick of all the violence and would like some sort of peace. As for me, I want ALL of our soldiers home. Two so called superpowers have tried to "Tame" Afghanistan to no avail. I feel that country is a waste of time, lives and our money.
2
From the PEW research in 2017:
The five countries with the largest active-duty U.S. military presence in 2016 were Japan (38,818), Germany (34,602), South Korea (24,189), Italy (12,088) and Afghanistan (9,023).
And Trump wants no one in Afghanistan! Why not move large numbers of those soldiers stationed in Germany, Japan and South Korea to Afghanistan?
@Alice
What would that accomplish?
@Alice
Move them to Afghanistan to what end?
We had 100,000 in Afghanistan for a while and that did not accomplish anything.
1
@Alice
For what purpose? Why do we need to keep troops in a hostile, unstable nation whose people don't want us there for generations?
“Mr. Trump’s sudden renunciation of the talks, including whether a sticking point was his desire to seal the deal himself in a dramatic summit meeting at Camp David.”
Of course this cancellation was about the president getting the credit for”sealing the deal” and getting the news space for him. A professional negotiating team from the non-existent State Department would have probably have us in an exit phase by this time. An example of the charlatan president mucking events up.
4
"Trump like a two year old has another tantrum when he can’t get his way."
Trump deserves to be faulted for imagining that the US can extract meaningful concessions from the Taliban, who can see as well as the rest of us that the US presence in Afghanistan will soon wind down significantly. Would you make significant concessions to get exactly what you'll get if you make no concessions at all? Would you suddenly start acting less violently when you recognize that your violent behavior is exactly what induced your enemy to start talking with you.
Most Americans will readily agree that Trump and his key negotiators lack the sophistication of their predecessors. But this really isn't all that complicated, and those "sophisticated predecessors" appear to have kept us embroiled in Afghanistan for 18 years now. Maybe it's time for some "unsophisticated" President and his negotiators to just cut and run, to stop pretending that that's not exactly what we're inevitably going to do.
2
@Commenter
Henry Kissinger explained this to Nixon.
Cut and run.
But claim "victory" if you want to.
1
Seventeen years of the presence of American military hasn’t brought peace anyway. The peace talks with the terrorists were quite unnecessary. American personnel are unnecessarily getting Killed at the cost of huge expenditure. Extending the stay of military there is of no use. Let Afghan Government handle it.
2
What kind of agreement can result between two parties who are both notorious liars? We have a preview in the-called arms agreement with North Korea. The Taliban are aware of the abrogated nuclear deal with Iran.
2
I've read a number of articles on this over the last couple days. Most indicated that Afghanistan was pleased the talks were called off. And it was the right thing to do as the Taliban has been wrecking havoc - blowing up weddings, attacking an embassy. These are not the actions of sincere negotiators. Frankly, I don't trust the Taliban, but I also understand that an 'agreement' or 'peace treaty' means nothing to despots intent on ruling with an iron fist, with the supposed 'approval' of Allah.
The title here implies that increased violence will be on Trump's head as a result of cancelling the meeting. A meeting that last week, the NYTimes criticized. I know there is more than a strong hatred for Trump and the Times, but can we get some objective reporting? Does the NYTimes have a solution for this terror?
2
@Ma "Most indicated that Afghanistan was pleased the talks were called off"
English speaking Afghans in Kabul were probably pleased.
Nobody has asked the majority of Afghans what they think about this.
And nobody will ask them.
1
Increased fatalities may lay at Trump’s feet. He should not have pushed for the meeting in the first place. And then the brash way he cancelled it could conceivably cause more disruption in the region. Trump’s a drunk elephant in a china shop.
Trump has no idea of what is involved in negotiating other than a round of golf and a piece of cake. The wretched guy thinks everyone can be bought with his incredible charm and money. Not even close.
3
Afghanistan was lost the day the Iraq War started. There are 18 year old women in Afghanistan who have lived their entire lives under American occupation. They received a full life worth of education. There is no way to win in Afghanistan but I sure do feel bad for the folks there- the Taliban will overrun the nation and it will become another terror state like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
1
The internal conflict in Afghanistan can not be resolved militarily — the assertion of top US military leaders directly involved in the on going American military presence.
A year plus of US negotiations that effectively excluded the current Afghan government in favor of talks exclusively with the Taliban. This without credible coordination with the current Afghan President.
Trump’s last minute decision to pull back on finalizing an agreement at Camp David raises myriad questions about a lash up that was apparently at its core deeply fragmented and fundamentally flawed.
4
That certainly seems to be the message:
"Trump the GOP and supporters want war ,war and more war."
But is it accurate? Several months ago, Trump proposed bringing the troops home from Afghanistan, and he was soundly criticized by an ad hoc coalition of his generals and the Democratic "leadership" -- most of whom had voted to support George W. Bush in the US invasion of Iraq. For reasons that still escape me, Trump was then labeled the "war monger," but it struck me then (and now) that Trump was pressing for withdrawal, not the other way around. The "peace loving" Democratic leadership insisted on calling Trump a "war monger," but it was and is the "peace loving" Democratic leadership that was the "war monger."
4
Please. That place is violence defined. Just another distraction. If we had a draft, we’d be out of there by now, heck 10 years ago.
11
@Becky Beech
Yes, conscription would serve as a restraint on Trump in ways that Mattis never could.
1
Remember the Vietnam War? The enemy lived there, we didn't. Remember the Russian's war in Afghanistan, now us? The enemy lives there, we don't. 18 years is a long time to stay stupid and allow our soldiers and resources to be wasted knowing it is a dead end. Bin Laden is dead, so why are we still there?
14
@TIm Love
Bin Laden had moved out of Afghanistan about three months after we invaded.
In the ensuing 18 years there has been no clear explanation for our continued engagement.
2
It isn't clear until very near the end of this article that the negotiations that had been going on "for a year" had not included any representative of the Afghan people, not a soul from the Government that represents the Afghan people.
These talks are doomed to failure when conducted without the Afghan people.
"The Art of the Deal" my derriere.
118
@James Barth: From the beginning, the Taliban have insisted on negotiating the withdrawal of foreign armed forces before they will deal with the Kabul government, who they, and most Afghans, regard as a corrupt, incompetent puppet regime.
The situation is similar to the Vietnam conflict, where the South Vietnamese government was left out of the secret negotiations between Kissinger of the U.S. and Tho of North Vietnam, and was only brought in unwillingly at the end for the signing of the Paris Peace Accord as a fait accompli.
It looks like President Trump planned to pull a typical hustler move by springing a three-way meeting on the Taliban at Camp David, under the assumption that they would be so desperate for a deal they would give in to his last minute switcheroo. I suspect the Taliban got wind of the trick and balked, and now Trump and Mike Pompeo are in full-on damage control, cooking up a phony-sounding excuse for the meeting's failure.
6
@James Barth
They do have a hard time to understand that others do have legitimate national interests too. If they don't behave they will have to suffer even more is the standard American diplomacy.
The Taliban are Afghans fighting on Afghan soil, for their interests at home. Americans under Carter used the Taliban against the Russians before they turned against the Americans. The Russians cut their losses and left and the Americans moved in and are stuck not knowing how to get out. Pompeo wants to punish the Taliban some more. Does Pompeo know that even soldiers can get killed in the war, if you can't take the loss of one soldier you better go home, the Taliban will hit back, they do defend their homeland, that is nothing new to them.
2
@James Barth
Reason the Afghan Govt. hasn't been included is the Taliban do not recognize the "puppet" government installed by the U.S. and refuse to negotiate with them. But you're right, the process was flawed from the beginning.
4
The stalemate, loss of blood and treasure will continue. It's interesting how Republicans in Congress, also Mike Pence and John Bolton, were outraged Trump would bring Taliban leaders onto American soil just before the anniversary of 9/11.
The Taliban were never going to negotiate in good faith. Taliban and al-Qaeda are fellow Sunni Muslims who follow the Wahhabist brand of Islam. They are brothers-in-arms and it's foolish to believe the Taliban would keep them in check.
At this point, perhaps make the best deal you can, evacuate vulnerable Afghans who cooperated with the Americans and get the heck out of Dodge.
2
@Mark McIntyre The Taliban didn't cause the attacks on US soil on 9/11; the Saudis did - & our government has never retaliated against the Saudis for the death of close to 3,000 Americans.
6
Nations that harbor (benefit from?) anarchists and religious zealots cannot be ignored. The world with its real population, environmental, and economic problems cannot afford the created distractions of men behaving badly. Therfore these places need and should expect world wide condemnation and consequences. Equally, real guidance and pressure in the areas of the rule of law, basic human rights, and healthy economic growth ought to occur. Currently, the US in it's go it alone "strategy" has neither the credibility or power to help in any of these areas. The People of Afghanistan should expect their government to be involved in a peace process and the moving of the Taliban from a physical and psychological threat to a culturally important party that has some influence in the Nation must occur. The international community must be involved and while the US may be one of many nations to get the three groups together in a neutral setting, a centrally located European place. Due to reputation, intentional ignorance, and again miscalculation this collapse is the fault of the Taliban and Trump.
1
USA is looking for exit route and is not concerned about aftermath.
Taliban is not going to change its mindset which rests on medieval ideology and violence. Taliban has shown again and again that it has no concern for human life ,continued its murderous suicidal attacks unconcerned about collateral innocent civilian casualties, car bombings and assassination of its opponents. It has shown its brutality as to how it deals with its opponents when in power , in its execution of President Najibullah and public desecration of his body. Only 5 days ago Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission’s acting director in Ghor province, Abdul Samad Amiri, has been kidnapped and killed by the Taliban
President Trump is correct in exiting from Afghan Imbroglio and leaving the ensuing mayhem to be handled by the regional countries like Pakistan, India, China,Russia Central Asian Republics,Iran who have vested interest in not letting the Taliban become have safe haven for Islamic extremists.
Through out the Afghan war Pakistan has played a execrable role. It has harbored the leadership of Taliban (Quetta Shura), provided safe harbor to Taliban militants, allowed recruitment of Taliban from its Madrassas,gave logistical and ideological support . At same time Pakistan has extracted maximum concessions from US in form of reimbursement for providing land access to Afghanistan from its seaports.
3
Do we know for sure this really happened? Is it another phone call from China? A hurricane threatening Alabama? I don't understand why/how he is still in office.
11
Agree. Something about this story doesn’t ring true.
American soldiers who die in vain in Afghanistan: a sad story but not a novel one
Our Korean war had the pointless battle for "pork chop hill".
For my generation the symbol of lunacy was the battle for "hamburger hill in the Au Shau valley of Vietnam.
The U.S. Army dropped more than 1,088 tons of bombs, 142 tons of napalm, 31,000 rounds of 20-mm shells, and 513 tons of teargas on North Vietnamese forces on Hamburger Hill.
Then our soldiers engaged in close combat with the NVA.
Once the fighting was over, 72 Americans were dead (some from friendly fire) and more than 370 were wounded. Estimates of North Vietnamese losses vary, but at least 630 were killed
And yet, just days later, on June 5, 1969, U.S. forces withdrew from the hill. The North Vietnamese quickly reoccupied it.
Nothing had been gained. Nothing had been achieved. 72 American soldiers were dead after a few days of pursuing a meaningless objective.
And so it is with the soldiers who die chasing the Taliban.
Sic Transit Gloria Mundi.
5
Donald Trump needs to be removed from office before he creates a world wide disaster.
10
Trump can be faulted, but not for what he's accused of. As Commenter Karen of Minneapolis notes, it's very far from clear why the Taliban would agree to any concessions at all, since it's pretty clear that the US will withdraw troops whether it receives concessions or not. Trump is kidding himself, and us, and helping to cause more deaths at the hands of the Taliban, to pretend that the US has any significant bargaining power here. We simply don't, and that's been true for years.
Trump has made clear his strong desire to wind down the Afghanistan war. He's been resolutely opposed by an ad hoc coalition of his "generals" and "peace loving" Democrats. Most Americans want us to pull out of Afghanistan, deal or no deal, and Trump has proposed to do just that. Call him irresponsible if that makes you feel better, but consider the possibility that it's far more irresponsible for the US to stay.
10
@Commenter
The neo-cons in both parties are in charge of foreign politics. Every president follows the neo-con line, MSM follows in the neo-con groove, all sing the same song, no questions asked.
3
@Commenter
Mr Commentator, while we rue the death rate in single digits, the Afghans shed tears for hundreds. The Afghan deaths are with America supplied bullets; supplied to Afghans in American loaned uniforms; Afghans serve in such uniform for their country has been TOTALLY DESTROYED by America and there are NO OTHER JOBS. It is Humiliation piled on Humiliation. Poor Afghanistan, so near to (under) American bombs, while the American installed Afghan RULERS are so far from GOD. .
1
@Commenter Trump is a Coward; Liar; Inflammer of hate and violence. Trust Trump? Never; Ever; Never. Trump will throw anyone under the bus for a Dollar.
3
Setting aside the challenging considerations of whether this meeting should take/have taken place, it is scary to have international relations on all fronts conducted with a whipsaw. America's credibility is shot, and the price to pay will come when it becomes necessary, for whatever reason, to muster a coalition.
2
@AHW
Wasn't American credibility shot when it repainted the Taliban as a legitimate party to negotiate with?
Weren't they a terrorist group that needed to be defeated and not negotiated with?
Or are we admitting that the trillion-dollar US army with the most advanced weapons of war on the planet lost a war to a bunch of semi-literate religious zealots whose equipment you can find at an army surplus store and Radio Shack?
1
History will, unfortunately, have to repeat itself in Afghanistan. We can either fight in perpetuity (as in Korea), or we can leave (as in Vietnam). The days of nice, clean-ish ends to war (a la WWII, the Revolution, 1812, etc.) are long behind us.
3
I’m guessing the South Koreans think we made the right choice.
"I am again concerned that this administration will follow it's will o' the wisp leader to the point of engaging more U.S. troops rather than withdrawing them."
It's surprising that the war mongers are able to cast Trump as the war monger. Let's not forget that Trump proposed winding down the Afghanistan war, but was opposed by his generals and the Democratic "leadership." THEY, not Trump, are the ones that want us to keep troops in Afghanistan.
Trump does not give a fig one way or another about this war, continuing it or stopping it. He only cares about making himself look good.
3
Reading between the lines, I am again concerned that this administration will follow it's will o' the wisp leader to the point of engaging more U.S. troops rather than withdrawing them. If this happens, we may find we are backed into a corner from which the only move is to re-elect the current group. It has almost been a given rule that during a war or military conflict, the current President and administration are given a second term to show determination and force. That potential outcome will not bode well for the American people, let alone the global communities.
5
As any one paying attention already knows that the Taliban carry out terror attacks every week, and as there is precisely zero reason to believe anyone in the Trump administration when they claim that secret talks with them were in the offing, let's key this out. Trump does what he does for one of only three reasons: greed, sex, or childish petulance. Sex seems unlikely in this case, so that leaves only greed and petulance. Trump's toilet and rage tweets and leaks from his frightened minions over the next few days may clarify which of the remaining two options applies.
12
There is no declared ceasefire in this conflict. The talks were reportedly called off because one American soldier. Yesterday on Meet the Press Pompeo bragged that the U. S. had killed 1000 Taliban in the last 10 days.
Is there anything this administration doesn't not understand?
18
@Mary PeacockI True, yet I doubt Pompeo's numbers, he lies like the other one.
6
No fan of the president, but the headline could also read "Afghanistan Braces for the Inevitable Result of Taliban Using Bombings To Gain Leverage In Peace Talks".
3
Help me with this? Was the POTUS not at Dover Air Force Base on Saturday when Elis Ortiz's body was received for burial?
3
If you had to choose between honoring a serviceman fallen in vain and a round of golf with a gaggle of sycophants, which would you choose?
1
But POTUS cared so much about this fallen soldier that he cancelled this very important fake meeting that never existed.
No. It was Pompeo who met the coffin.
“We’re going to walk away from a deal if others try to use violence to achieve better ends in a negotiation,’’ he said.
... and this coming fro someone whose nation has obliterated 5 nations during just the past 15 years. I didn't notice much negotiation occurring in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria or Yemen.
Keep invading, bombing, subverting. The definition of madness is .........
4
Representative Liz Cheney said “no member of the Taliban should set foot’’ in the presidential retreat. “The Taliban still harbors Al Qaeda,” she said on Twitter. “The President is right to end the talks.”
No, Ms. Cheney, Trump isn't "right" to "end the talks." Trump was *wrong* to have ever invited the Taliban to Camp David.
You Republicans' refusal to ever state that Trump is wrong is disingenuous, and has merely helped enable his incompetent and destructive actions. Shame on you!
31
The Taliban is angry because they weren’t being wined and dined like with the Bush administration back in the day. But, tell me, what part of Trump’s foreign policy is actually working? It’s just like Atlantic City all over again. Only this time the sucker is us!
7
I don't believe a word Pompeo says. He's a sycophant, serial liar, with as much ability and judgement as his vaunted boss, The Chosen One. There's no fixing Stupid.
11
So the Taliban is like every other normal human on earth: waiting until Trump is no longer the guy in charge.
5
This phony attempt to bring “peace” to Afghanistan was Trump’s stupid and clumsy attempt to grab for the Nobel Peace Prize.
16
@KJS Nixon didn't get a Nobel for surrendering in Viet Nam and Reagan didn't get one for his Beirut Bugout but hope springs eternal...
The truth of the matter, is that all peace negotiotations are done with your enemy, and usually one which uses violence against you. It is all very nice to focus on how Trump bungled this up, and surely he is a horrible president that in no way should have been elected to handle such sensitive issues. BUT, there is no other way to solve the Afghan issue and get US troops out, without negotiating directly with the Taliban. Using additional force as part of positioning is the standard way to gain leverage, and this is what the Taliban has done here (albiet in its usual murderous way). The US has employed similar positioning tactics throughout history. Had the US not been willing to engage with the north vietnamese, it would still be bleeding soldiers there 50 years later.
In addition, the US doesn't really have leverage here. It can be all high and mighty and refuse to talk to the Taliban, but that won't get its goal of getting out of there, shared politically by both Democrats and Republicans. The Taliban knows that, and no use ignoring that. Better to just bite the bullet, even have them over in Camp David, and be over with it.
As an outsider, these headlines in NYT and the comments here seem to me just another case where liberals have knee jerk reactions to find any opportunity to (usually rightfully) beat on Trump, but had it been Obama and not Trump doing this maneuvering, I'd been willing to bet reactions would be 180 degrees opposite.
10
@dan I'm trying to remember when Nixon brought the Viet Cong to America to negotiate or FDR the Japanese and Germans. I don't even remember reading about Lincoln inviting the Confederates to Washington. You only bring your enemies to your property for them to sign surrender documents, not for another ridiculous photo op.
29
@dan sorry but the use of force for leverage normally results in violence and murder and it is not limited to the Taliban. Too bad the US not negotiate a cease fire while the talks go on.
6
For many years the SOP for the US has been, we don’t negotiate with terrorists. What are the Taliban? Are they a country, a government, a political party, anything but a terrorist mafia of religious fanatics? Who do they represent among the Afghans? It is inevitable they will ultimately kill each other off until one strongman rises to the top of the heap of dead bodies. And this is their strategy for achieving legitimacy among the people? If the only way they can rule is through fear and intimidation, we have no business negotiating with them... aside from the obvious fact they cannot be trusted and whoever claims to make an agreement will not be around for long to uphold it anyway. Who would take on such a fool’s errand... but a fool? Art of the Spiel, another ploy for attention and distraction.
7
What about the super double secret meeting? What about the secret handshake? If we can't use the secret handshake, the meeting will have to be cancelled.
8
Maybe trump still has the secret ring.
This just in: Trump Receives Beautiful Love Letter From Taliban. “They’re in Love” says Trump. Camp David is back on!!
I believe he called off the meeting because there was something on TV that night that he wanted to watch, instead.
11
Which version, #1 or #2, will most Americans believe?
Trump has blatantly lied to us thousands of times. How are we to trust what he says now?
And what state is our nation in when we must debate something like this: who's less dishonest with us, our nation's enemies or our own president?
1. There were also questions about the accuracy of his assertion that the Taliban had accepted his invitation to Camp David on Sunday, and that he was the one calling off the meeting.
2. Taliban negotiators said Sunday that they had agreed to come to the United States only after a deal was announced and only to meet with the American side, suggesting that Mr. Trump may have canceled a meeting that the key participants were not planning to attend.
13
Frankly, I am suspicious. There is no reason to take the President at his word about why talks were called off.
And, while my heart goes out to the family of the soldier who was killed - my nephew and Godson served in Afghanistan - calling off talks is not the solution and may be the impetus for more bloodshed and loss of American lives.
It appears the President and his team have failed, once again, to negotiate an agreement that serves all parties; if he cannot handle being wrong about Alabama, surely he will not own up to being unable to negotiate an agreement with the Taliban.
Neither the President, nor his team seem to know how to negotiate anything successfully in a world that's no longer about power...but instead is about partnership.
11
Who knows what led to this debacle? All I know is that Trump has demonstrated repeatedly that all he cares about is the appearance of success in fulfilling his campaign promises no matter whether this helps or hurts our country and the greater world. He wants a big spectacle of a peace accord signing with the Taliban even if produces no peace for the Afghans or even us.
5
Saying the Taliban have more “incentive” to violence now is pure propaganda and a lie. Their incentive is unchanged. And they choose their incentives.
Thanks Times.
2
HE will absolutely tweet " Happy 9/11, America ".
Just wait.
8
One more example of how Trump's reckless and irresponsible behavior has made the world a more dangerous place. The fact that his most hawkish advisors, Pompeo and Bolton, opposed this "stunt" at Camp David on the eve of 9/11 shows us how much of an incompetent loose cannon we have in Trump, who apparently was eager to do this nonsensical unprepared event in hopes of scoring some kind of meaningless photo-op.. Trump is beyond ridiculous. He is dangerous for our nation and for the world.
12
For a guy who prides himself above all else on his ability to make a deal, this president sure has a hard time closing even one of them--with the Chinese, the North Koreans, the Iranians, the Taliban. He seems much more adept at tearing apart deals others have made without fully understanding why they were signed in the first place.
10
Just let the Talibans know that Japan attacked USA in 1941 and hostilities ended in 1945. US forces are still in Japan after how many years? you just count it....74 years. So Taliban and Afghans, including US public should be prepared that US forces will be in Afghanistan that long time. It is only 18 years..not 74. All these current Taliban leaders will be gone.....US forces will be in Afghanistan. What we need is end of hostilities with Taliban in that region and it does NOT mean that US forces are gone. they will be there for long period of time, like Japan.
You mean the meeting was real?
2
The Taliban wants U.S. troops gone as a condition of peace with U.S. So pull out. Peace accords are easy to win. No more soldier deaths needed.
Why doesn’t Mike Pompeo bow his head as the others are doing to honor the soldier who gave his life?
1
An amateur like Trump has no business in talks of this magnitude.
10
**Representative Liz Cheney, the Wyoming Republican and daughter of former Vice President Dick Cheney, said “no member of the Taliban should set foot’’ in the presidential retreat. “The Taliban still harbors Al Qaeda,” she said on Twitter. “The President is right to end the talks.”**
I guess it entirely escaped Rep. Cheney's notice that it was President Donald J. Trump who invited the Taliban to Camp David in the first place.
11
Trump and his cronies are total incompetents, that is well known. But the truth is that the Taliban cannot be trusted to keep any agreement. Their nihilistic vision will never allow any kind of peace. We must cut off their funding from Pakistan. The enemy is Pakistan as much as the Taliban.
1
Can't wait for the tweet from Trump as to what a great bunch of guys the Taliban are and how he negotiated a great deal with them. Has our leadership ever fallen to such levels of incompetence?
4
Every day this freak show coming out of OUR White House pulls stunts like this, it gives me bad acid indigestion. My poor dead husbands ashes are spinning around on my mantle. He was a Viet Nam Vet and 30 yr Navy man. The minute Trump trashed McCain he was done with him. "He will never be my President." Through thick and thin he always respected the office but not when Trump showed up!
3
I wonder why the news is saying Trump cancelled the meeting / invitation with the Taliban?... Isn't it obvious to everyone that he lied about the whole thing... never invited them in the first place... made the whole thing up and then cancelled it.... Just like he said the Chinese suddenly called him in the middle of the G-7 to say you were right, lets restart the trade talks... It was just an outright lie from the start...
6
Where is the outrage from these Trump toadies when it comes to Russia attacking us? Still apologizing for our supporting the Taliban against Russia? Will Trump ever say no to his puppet master's bidding? Putin has him under his thumb for sure.
But even a broken clock is right twice a day, and it would have been stupid to have them at Camp David when he seems to be allergic to the place. Or is it he doesn't get money in his own pockets for using Camp David?
2
There is a consistent pattern of self indulgence and incompetence in Trump's dealings with Iran, North Korea, China, and now the Taliban. He is consistently misguided by his own belief in his primary importance in every situation. Those who serve him and encourage him are guilty of something once called lese majeste (treason in our day).
1
Barreto Ortiz was from Puerto Rico.
4
Trump is a liar. How can we accept his word for anything we don’t have proof for?
4
The idea of a terrorist group negotiating with a President who has pulled out of nearly every pact and accord the US had in place when he took office would almost be humorous if the consequences weren't so dire. Why would anyone make any kind of deal with the United States while Trump is President?
18
Peace plan or not there will be an isis or Taliban takeover of Afghanistan when we leave. The Republican administration of bush/Cheney got us into this mess with the destruction of Iraq. Democracy is dead in the Middle East. Trump like a two year old has another tantrum when he can’t get his way.
52
We really, really want to get out of Afghanistan. If we leave Afghanistan, the whole country will fall to the Taliban within months. We are trying to negotiate the terms of our surrender and defeat while saving face. It would have been better for Mr. Trump to slog through the negotiations, so that the eventual debacle can be blamed on the Taliban.
This is all sad for the many brave and wonderful people of Afghanistan. Alas, this country cannot be saved from itself.
12
@Gary its all about oil from the Crimean sea
1
Make no mistake: Any negotiations with the Taliban are ultimately leading to an endgame where the US cedes control of Afghanistan to them. The Taliban was born for the purpose of taking advantage of the power vacuum that resulted from the full withdrawal of the Soviet Union. Realistically, once the U.S. withdraws its forces from Afghanistan, the pro-American regime can be expected to quickly collapse. No matter how well armed, or how well paid, the Afghan National Army is, its troops simply lack the motivation that the Taliban has in abundance. It's clear that any non-Islamist regime, which the countries of the West might find reasonably palatable from both a Human Rights and a Geopolitical perspective, never has much chance to survive without the direct support of Western Military power. It is also the case that the U.S. military has no chance of defeating the Taliban, as long as the Taliban militants can effectively find safe haven across the border with Pakistan. Trump's strategy seems to be one of capitulation: He tacitly agrees to surrender Afghanistan, with the sole proviso that the Taliban takeover only take place during the administration of the subsequent U.S. President. All of the strategies have been tried and found wanting-- Petraeus's "COIN" (Counter-Insurgency) plan, winning the "Hearts and Minds" of the people, major sweeps to destroy the ubiquitous Opium Poppy fields....However, the U.S. can win by preventing the Taliban from winning. That should be the aim
4
For once, Trump is not to blame.
Who could possibly do reliable business with the Taliban?
Only when the Afghan people reject the violent, intolerant beliefs
and actions that have saturated their society for decades will progress come.
A total withdrawal of American and NATO forces is long overdue.
And the situation inside Afghanistan may get worse before it gets better.
The Afghans must sort out their own affairs. Where there's a will, there's a way. Nobody can do it for them.
4
@Holdit
"Who could possibly do reliable business" with Trump?
7
@Holdit Trump gets the blame for negotiating with terrorists and elevating them to the status of a State, even as he kept the elected govt on the sidelines.
At the end the terrorists are empowered and the elected govt looks irrelevant.
Trump has no business getting into serious things he knows nothing about.
84
What's the difference between Vietnam and Afghanistan? Trump had a plan for getting out of Vietnam.
10
Best comment award..!!
1
The other side has a view on Trump's 180.
Taliban spokesperson Suhail Shaheen said on Sunday that an agreement was reached between U.S. and Taliban negotiators in Qatar several days ago.
The Taliban spokesperson described Trump's Twitter tirade as "astonishing" and suggested the messages had "certainly damaged his credibility."
Now, most American's don't put much stock in Trump's credibility, but this certainly does not help.
7
This is “Pork Chop Hill” all over again. I am a Korean War veteran so I can use this analogy that depicts the conundrum surrounding our truce negotiations with the Chinese Communists in Paris during that War. The fight over meaningless territory was a test of wills, period. The same is occurring with the Taliban and we.
In my opinion, there will not be a good outcome for Afghanistan regardless of a peace agreement.
5
One way to get the Taliban and the Afghan government to talk to each other is just to withdraw the U.S. military entirely. They'll have nobody else to talk to except each other; they can either do that or destroy their own country. When we left Vietnam, it looked bad, but turned out for the best in the long run. If we stay in Afghanistan, the only guarantee is that the war will continue.
2
Another example of the machinations of the Chosen One. There are only negatives to prove. An unannounced meeting to end a war is cancelled. The Afghan contingency never leaves Qatar where they are supposedly waiting to go see Trump at Camp David. They have initialed secret peace agreements, or had they? Where are they? Are the CIA and military necessary to secure that visit able to provide any evidence that they had been apprised of this meeting? Had security preparations begun? Who knew what, when - IF. Had preparations begun at Camp David to meet the dietary and other needs of these would be peace keepers? At least that would provide a clue of some verity. Can intrigue be negative? Did Trump think he could end a war, because he ‘said so’? Is he the fool, or are we? He is hurting our national soul.
5
Best to have it this way.
Now the Taliban will hold a leadership conference to decide what to do next.
We can attend as well, using a Tomahawk missle as a State Department proxy.
1
@Objectivist And then all will be well...in your little dream world.
2
Bring back the draft, make it fair. Then the American public will care and may even know where the troops are fighting.
2
I would think trump found out that trump hotels could not charge the Taliban for the visit and he thought they were treating him unfairly.
9
Commenter Karen wisely asks:
"[I]t’s unclear why the Taliban would bargain ... to get US troops out ... It’s obvious he’s likely to pull them out even in the absence of [a deal] ... Why would the Taliban bid anything against that certainty?"
I totally agree. Why in the world the Taliban would behave differently from how they are behaving is a mystery to me. I strongly wish they would stop killing their own people, but that blood is on our hands too. We went into Afghanistan 18 years ago to flush out Al Qaeda, who'd carried out the 9/11 attacks and was being protected in Afghanistan by the Taliban (to whom we'd given $30 million, along with a lot of praise, just a few months before 9/11). Osama bin Laden left Afghanistan about 18 years ago, and all but a few other al Qaeda members left Afghanistan shortly before and after he left.
Only the US stayed. Other than inertia, the reason has never been clear to me. We should leave immediately. If we can get some concessions for leaving, great. If not, just leave. Once we had a good reason for being there, but that reason disappeared many years ago.
2
While a cease-fire before negotiations would obviously be nice, that seems illogical right from the start: cease-fires need to be negotiated. If they're killing ours, and we're killing theirs, does that mean we cannot negotiate? How would any wars end if that were a pre-condition?
Amateur hour at the White House continues....
2
The meeting was never going to happen. Never. It is Trump we are talking about here.
1
I cannot find any good reason for the US to have continued presence in Afghanistan. Furthermore, why elevate the Taliban to a respectable status by inviting the group to the bargaining table?
Taliban is a ragtag group of Sunni Islamic fundamentalist terrorists whose aim is the establishment of a strictly Sharia-governed Afghan state. No other world power is currently interested in Afghanistan. This landlocked country with little natural or human resources no longer shares a border with mighty adversaries since the demise of the USSR even though China retains a sliver of a border through the Sinkiang Province.
The Afghan Taliban group receives money, organizational leadership, moral support and political cover from neighboring Pakistan. If the administration is serious about peace in Afghanistan, it should stop its continuing generous foreign aid to Pakistan (totaling $33 billion in recent years) and persuade friendly nations like KSA to do the same. Without the oxygen supplied by the funds from Pakistan, Taliban cannot flare up.
4
Hypocrisy, anyone?
Nobody asked whether Americans agreed with our invasion of Afghanistan 18 years ago, but the backing would have been near-unanimous if anyone had.
To his credit (and he doesn't deserve a lot), Bush DID ask a year later, before invading Iraq. He got explicit "yes" votes from 77 Senators, including many of today's big-name doves -- for example, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, Dianne Feinstein. Several of them later turned against the Iraq War, but only because they felt Bush's generals hadn't done it right. But when they had a chance to say "no," they said "yes."
We've got a chance to bring our troops home from Afghanistan right now. We should do just that. If we can extract some concessions, great. If not, leave anyway. As Commenter Karen from Minneapolis points out, it's far from clear why the Taliban would negotiate with the US to bring about a result that's inevitable anyway.
It's odd, but true, that the most vociferous hawks are now allied with the Democratic "leadership." Trump says he wants to bring the troops home from Afghanistan. That is what I want too, and that is what I'm pretty sure most Americans want -- deal or no deal. We were justified 18 years ago, but we're not justified now.
1
Revisionism anybody?
1
Trump is an amateur when it comes to world negotiations. It's not the same as signing a contract to put your name on a hotel. He hires only amateurs with no experience in diplomacy. His most recent hire for Mideast peace talks was an unexperienced young man who scheduled appointments for Jared and brought his coffee. Career diplomats study for years, than work for diplomats for years, and then have years of experience. They know what they're doing. Trump and his minions have no idea how things work.
Does a secret meeting between trump and any party mean: no documentation that the meeting ever happened, as with the five meetings with putin?
At first I was with the State Department. The Japanese had ambassadors in Washington as they bombed Pearl Harbor. So the Taliban murders dozens prior to peace talks? I thought it correct to call off any talks with the rogue nation.
Then comes the trump factor, which means history is irrelevant. Logic plays no part in trump's thought process.
Where's Gen. Mattis on this? How dictatorial does a sitting president have to get before the General gets off the pot.
2
If this guy gets more than 20% of the votes in the next election, then there is something weird with Americans. 1984 is not far.
3
We all need to heed history The Afghans repelled the Mughals,Mongols, Britain, USSR and us This will not end easily or well But it would be smart to keep some troops there and the human toll for Americans is small compared to other wars There were more people killed in Chicago in 4 weeks than in Afghanistan in over a year The financial strain is of course another story.
I’m sure Trump agonized over this decision, aware of the surge of killings it would inevitably cause, sensitive to all the individuals and families involved, the children. But that is the tough calling for any great President, whether his decision leaves even his own aides mystified or not. God speed.
I wonder which of his golf games took precedence?
1
Trump the GOP and supporters want war ,war and more war. They get lots of payments from stock in Haliburtin war industry and other companies to keep the war on. When there sons and daughters don’t have to join the fight its alright for the Democratic sons and daughters to be there. Bring the draft back and for every Democratic son and daughter put in basic training a Republican young adult. No more college deferments that is the cowards way out.
2
It’s like we’re living an Ingmar Bergman movie. Not that Trump would understand that.
1
We sent troops to Afghanistan after the 9/11 WTC attack in 2001. Let us remember how many Taliban/Afghans were involved in the 9/11 attack. ZERO. Al Qaeda may have coordinated the attack in Afghanistan, but was that sufficient reason to try to bring 'western civilization' to a medieval tribal society?
Although I agree with almost nothing Trump has done as POTUS, getting American troops out places where we never should have been in the first place is exactly what we should be doing. Bush-Cheney and their Neo-Con cheerleaders are responsible for ISIS and the present chaos in Syria-Iraq and Afghanistan with their imbecilic ideas about regime change. But Bush has been out of the White House for over a decade. . If we listened to "the generals" we would still be fighting a senseless war in VietNam. Why are we still in Afghanistan fighting a losing war that has no foreseeable benefit for America and no realistic end goals and has caused thousands of American and Afghan deaths? What have we accomplished there but make more enemies now plotting to repeat another 9/11 type attack on the U.S.? We don't belong there and should get out. Trump could just follow in the footsteps of Nixon and declare Victory in Afghanistan and pull out all American troops before 2020. He may even win (God forbid) the 2020 election for having done so.
2
Despite what we already know, it never fails to stun me that there is never, NEVER any paperwork on the desk in the Oval with the current occupant. With some executives it is a sign of organization. For this one, it's a tell. Empty desk. Empty mind.
Supposedly these talks were to be held at Camp David. That means that the Taliban would have been in the United States! I and millions of other Americans do not want the Taliban in the USA for any reason what so ever! Look at what happened the last time such terrorists were in the nation. Good that Trump called them off. Thank you.
Let us look at the great negotiating skills of Donald J. Trump, the great businessman-deal maker: Just where is the deal with Kim/North Korea, with Xi over Chinese-American trade imbalances and now the Taliban? Trump appears to be all bluster and no deal. Trump probably believes that he is a great deal maker, but what proof do we have? Just because Trump deludes himself into believeing in his own greatness the rest of the world does not share his delusions of grandeur.
1
Trump's on-the-job training, and trial-and-error diplomacy is no longer cute. Love letters with the North Korean leader and secret soirees with the Taliban are perilous. There is too much at stake for him to try to reinvent the wheel as he throws the state department into turmoil and career experts quit en mass. It's the same reason why a car mechanic should not attempt to perform a root canal. What worked in the fake stage of the Apprentice has no value being applied to international relations. Send the man to play golf for the rest of his term and let the career diplomats work on these issues, please.
The career diplomats have all been driven out or fired. There are only incompetent Trump sycophants in charge now.
2
@Chris if we’re sending him to play golf I hope it’s on the prison or asylum team .
From the beginning, the Taliban have insisted on negotiating the withdrawal of foreign armed forces before they will deal with the Kabul government, who they, and most Afghans, regard as a corrupt, incompetent puppet regime.
The situation is similar to the the Vietnam conflict. The South Vietnamese government was left out of the secret one on one negotiations between Kissinger of the U.S. and Tho of North Vietnam, and was only brought in unwillingly at the end for the signing of the Paris Peace Accord as a fait accompli.
It looks like President Trump planned to pull a typical hustler move by springing a three-way meeting on the Taliban at Camp David, under the assumption that they would be so desperate for a deal they would give in to his last minute switcheroo. I suspect the Taliban got wind of the trick and balked, and now Trump and Mike Pompeo are in full-on damage control, cooking up a phony-sounding excuse for the meeting's failure.
This is a diplomatic disaster. Trump has humiliated President Ghani and made him look even more like a U.S. puppet, and handed the Taliban even more leverage in his desperation to announce a deal on his watch.
We spend $700 billion a year on "defense" and a handful of illiterate sandal-wearing opium farmers riding donkeys have fought us to a stalemate and are continuing to bleed our country of its money.
I was hoping that if thoughtful Obama could not overcome the military-industrial complex to get us out of that money-pit, a narcissist ADHD tv personality could. Looks like not.
1
A small mountain tribe is far superior to the mighty US Army showing them for years that it's better to get out because they cannot win. But the Westpoint brass does not listen and keeps on polishing their undeserved medals.
"But Mr. Pompeo laid out two conditions for a withdrawal on Sunday: that violence be reduced and that another terrorist attack on the United States from Afghanistan never be permitted."
So, reading between Mr Pompeo's intentionally blurred lines: As long as you promise not to strike the US, we're OK with that.
- How about if they strike another NATO Member? They're there too. They're there in a show of support for Us after 9/11. Do we abandon a strike against Brittan, France Germany, etc because of a weak promise posed as a desperate "Get out of here" plan posed by a scatter-shot administration?
Also, what if there was another attack on the US.
- What will you do in that case, reset the clock and spend another 18 years "in-country"?
Don't make threats when you have no standing strengths to back them up, Mike. You should have learned that from "Art of the Deal".
We're in there, we're hosed. The Admin. will pull another stunt as a "Hail Mary" for the Election, and blame the next Admin via tweet when it all hits the wall.
Thank you so much President George W. Bush and the GOP for taking resources and attention away from wrapping up Afghanistan to whimsically invade Iraq. America's longest war will always be on you!
I think we should leave Afghanistan the same way we left Vietnam. I don’t care what happens to them anymore.
In both cases we broke it, so we should fix it. Do you leave the scene of a car crash you caused because you are "bored" by the consequences of your actions?
I never got the impression the Taliban ever wanted peace, just things their own barbaric way. How does one negotiate something that they cannot comprehend, it's worse than signing escrow papers or accepting the terms of an app program update.
I dislike trump, but to characterize recurring violence in this country as his fault is ridiculous. There were Islamic terror attacks on civilians before we invaded Afghanistan and they will continue unabated after we leave.
1
Just another in a long list of failures for the trump administration.
2
I’m no negotiator, but it’s unclear why the Taliban would bargain with Trump in order to get US troops out of Afghanistan. It’s obvious he’s likely to pull them out even in the absence of negotiation or benchmarks being met. Everyone knows he promised to bring them out, and everyone knows that he will do anything to win re-election, including making sure voters believe he’s kept campaign promises. Why would the Taliban bid anything against that certainty?
23
@Karen Everyone, even his MAGA-hat wearing supporters, knows that Trump is the Great Prevaricator. Why would anyone believe any deal Trump promised?
@Karen I'm not convinced it matters if he keeps promises. I mean where's that new healthcare that's cheaper and better? Why aren't taxes lower for everyone? And Mexico definitely isn't paying for the wall.
1
What was his point
of announcing the
cancellation
of the possible talks?
The ensuing violence
that may take
place will be “blood”
on his hands.
He must be held
accountable. He must
be voted out of office.
The damage this man
is doing to world order,
to our country, our
people is terrifying.
62
10,000 recommends.
He can’t keep his mouth shut.
2
@Karen
When you have no morality he and his supporters don’t care. They won’t send their sons and daughters into their wars . Look at Trump refused to go to Vietnam .
The Taliban upset about the collapse of negotiation with the US is willing to murder and maim their own people. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
13
@N
Most of the Taliban are not native Afghans; many come from tribal areas on the border with Pakistan, and they literally see the civilians and soldiers they kill as "vermin"--women who are out in public, who are going to school, men who are working with the US to set up a government. We don't need someone as shallow and vainglorious as Trump "negotiating" with these people; he's not even on THEIR level.
@N Excellent reply...more succinct and better than I put it.
@N
Of course mass shooters murder and maim their own people right? Or is that somehow different?
2
The very notion that the U.S. will leave Afghanistan unilaterally guarantees more violence as the Taliban sees weakness in Donald Trump and pushes him to cut and run. It means that once again we will abandon those who helped us there, as we did in Vietnam. It means that other nations will be ever more reluctant to join with us in international efforts because our pledges can be reversed at the whim and tweet of a President, as Trump did with the Paris Accords and the Iranian Nuclear Agreement.
As President Obama had to clean up the financial mess that George W. Bush left, the next President will left with multiple messes created by Donald Trump.
47
@Pat Choate
"once again we will abandon those who helped us there, as we did in Vietnam."
Yes, we will abandon some folks, as we did on VN.
In both instances we started wars we could not win.
It was always a matter of time - in Vietnam and Afghanistan - when we would have to depart and "abandon" folks who had made the judgement to fight with us.
It is the "starting" not the "leaving" that is the original sin.
57
“Cut and run” after 19 yrs? You must be joking, right? Afghanistan is where empires go to die. Didn’t they tell you? Just ask the Russians. There is no reason to be killing folks there; never was, never will be. Except to mine some rare Earth minerals or keep the heroin supply flowing. And, puppet governments don’t last that long. Or, maybe China should send us over some troops to help out with the opiate crisis? I mean, one good turn....
@John B
We hardly "started" the Vietnam War, unless you're arguing that it's a "war" only if the U.S. is involved.
"that another terrorist attack on the United States from Afghanistan never be permitted"
Right... because terrorists wait for permission? The "conditions" Pompeo appears to have spun out of thin air are just nonsense.
23
@Lex
The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”
― George Orwell, 1984
1
In an otherwise impossibly murky environment that is Afghanistan, I have total clarity about only about two issues:
a. We cannot negotiate with the Taliban. While Afghan people are no different than any other people, the Taliban have a clearly nihilistic Islamic agenda. Putting them in a legitimate position of power in Afghanistan will first produce a vicious caliphate, then serve as a petri dish for degenerates who will then harm the region, then us.
b. Taliban is a creature of the Pakistani military, who provides them safe haven and sustenance. No solution in Afghanistan over the long term can occur without taming the Pakistani military. I am speaking of action; talking to the Pakistani military is useless - virtually every US military person in touch with them calls them unreliable, treacherous liars. It is a matter of times when the Pakistani nukes get into the wrong hands of the very jihadists they spawned. This problem cannot be dealt with after the fact, after the mushroom cloud, it must be dealt with pre-emptively.
To the extent we have cut off talks that would legitimize the Taliban as a political force in Afghanistan, I am extremely grateful.
I am aware that no one wants an open ended involvement in Afghanistan. But without removing the influence of Pakistani military, we are currently not zeroing in on a plausible solution in Afghanistan. The day we move out, Taliban moves in, then the killings begin (see Vietnam for analogy).
16
@Kalidan Now check your clothing labels: Made in Vietnam.
@Kalidan
Kalidan gives us the perspective of South Block.
India is allied with the Tajiks and the Northern Allince warlords in Afghanistan.
For India the defeat of the Taliban is a strategic goal.
Pakistan is allied with the Pashtun Taliban. For Pakistan the defeat of the Northern Alliance forces who underpin the Kabul government is a strategic goal.
Iran, the Russians, China, India and Pakistan all have strategic objectives in Afghanistan.
The US is the one player that has never articulated a believable serious strategic objective.
3
@Kalidan, attacking Pakistan preemptively would be an unmitigated disaster.
Trump and Pompeo are unqualified to be doing any of this.
Trump's hypocrisy is increasing daily, based on a vendetta against Obama and a crying need to be the savior, albeit of things he himself sabotages.
If he were the head of any decent-sized public company he would have been ousted by the board a few years back for his behavior, he would have been drummed out of any of the armed forces, and were he a private citizen, I can't think of a school district who would let him in the door.
Happy now, GOP plus Jill and Gary fans?
34
@JP. I agree! When I read of Trump wanting to do this and that and he has zero foreign policy expertise, it’s downright frightening!
3
@JP...It's nice to see y'all giving Jill and Gary a shout out for their parts in destroying your democrazy and stealing your freedom. Those two get scant recognition for Hillary's tragic failure to take her entitled place in herstory. Of course, Putin and the Russians are a hard act to follow - especially when the setting President failed to act on intel from his IC. Then, there was Comey's shenanigans. And Bernie's Boyz boycotting Hill. Voter suppression and gerrymandering. Oh, don't forget the Founders and their abominable Electoral College. No wonder y'all lost. It would have taken an actual campaign to overcome the entire Universe.
1
@Albert Edmud
So we can discount logic and statistics and satire as your possible majors. No mind. We can't quantify what Comey did, we can't quantify what the Russian social media campaign did, a bit closer on Bernie, and here the EC doesn't matter as much as we can certainly quantify what the 3rd party candidates did.
Funny how your self-proclaimed "favorite president" is double-digits under water after the self-proclaimed most successful 2.5 years in presidential history. Did he do that all by himself or any chance he's blaming an orchestra of others?
Welcome to the Eternal War, everyone...
16
Allowing a petulant baby to yo-yo our dealings with foreign powers is dangerous and will cause more deaths.
15
Since when did the Taliban represent the Afghan government? Since when can the Taliban be understood by something other than terrorism and despotic theocracy?
If the US wants to support a legitimate Afghan government, that is one thing.
But to directly negotiate with the terrorists and shunt asie the role of the Afghan government is to ensure there will be no peace for the (especially) women and men of that country.
Every attempt by the current administration to engage in dplomacy ends up being a flop by incompetents.
16
@Svirchev
There is no "legitimate government"
The Taliban represent a slice of the Afghan population - mostly Pashtun and mostly southern.
The current Kabul government represents hardly anybody.
45 may fancy himself the Kissinger of the 21st Century.
He's more the Kiss of Death.
12
We are the laughingstock of the world now, seconded only by Trump's twin Boris Johnson across the pond.
30
I have always stated that, for the Taliban to be launching sustained offensives against the Afghan National Army, it must have a backer.
I mean, when the North Vietnamese were launching frontal offensives against the South in 1972, they had backers in the form of the Soviet Union and China. Think about it, where does the Taliban source bullets for a continuous conflict running 18 years? How did it get the materiel to control a third of the country's districts and contest another third? Who is the backer here?
That backer is known to all. But that backer's support is also vital to get the Taliban to the negotiating table and exit. This is the dilemma the US has always faced.
That backer threatened to cut off supply routes - the only supply routes into Afghanistan - passing through its soil periodically. It cut supplies off for weeks after the Bin Laden raid for until it received an "apology".
Paradoxically, Pakistan was enlisted as an ally in the 'War on Terror' despite a prior history of supporting the Taliban when it had held power. Which genius at the time of invasion thought it was a good idea to enlist this country as an ally? What was the rationale here?
I must say, US policymakers have been poor at distinguishing between a friend an enemy. They have endorsed actors who do not deserve to be endorsed, even to the detriment of their own country...
14
@Jack Here you go: The Military-Industrial Complex allied with any "backer" that can step up and benefit from it, too. Endless war = endless profit for some sources. Too bad for the people maimed and killed--there'll always be that collateral damage, too. Ho, hum.
@Jack
Pakistan holds all the cards in this game. Its military complex has hand on the jugular of US war in Afghanistan All the logistical support to US army in Afghanistan goes through Pakistani seaport and and land routes. It provides safe harbor to Taliban militants across the border.At the same time int extracts financial renumeration from US to feed its corrupt military. President Trump is correct in withholding aid to Pakistan
1
Since this was supposed to be a secret meeting, scrapping it should have stayed secret, too. No harm, no foul. The only reason for announcing it is political con-manship unrelated to any actual higher benefit towards strategy with Afghanistan.
And, given that it's Trump, I have to doubt that there was actually any secret meeting scheduled at all...
68
@Barry Williams
Ah, no. The reason to announce it was to let everyone know that the Taliban is not able to be negotiated with after all. The United States tried, but they failed to show any semblance of "goodwill"
You're stuck with your TDS. There seems to be no cure.
@Barry Williams-I, too, wouldn't be at all surprised if later we find out that it was all just an idea that got into trumps head one morning while watching Fox. He probably fantasized how this could make him look "tough" to his cult, I mean base. And I have no doubt that he believed he could pull it off, he being such a silver tongued con man and all. Then when things started to go south, he cowardly blamed some poor dead soldier to try to convince his fans that he canceled because of some new-found sense of morality, which anyone with an IQ above 40 knows is something that completely eludes this President.
4
@Duane Mathias "The reason to announce it was to let everyone know that the Taliban is not able to be negotiated with after all."
Ah, no. By your theory, there was no reason to have a secret meeting in the first place. In fact, the best way to prove intransigence would have been to openly schedule a meeting, then have to scrap it.
1
Everything Trump does at this point is with his possible re-election in mind. All the back and forth with everything, not just Afghanistan and the Taliban, is Trump posturing for 2020 results.
14
@Debbie It is Monday. 17 tweets since 6:21 this morning. It is only 9 am for God's sake. Days not over. Let's see if he tweets about Alabama.
4
Trump, Pompeo and Bolton are way out of their league when dealing with the Taliban.
Pompeo and Bolton only say what Trump says about these so called Taliban Peace Talks...the only thing is neither Trump, Pompeo or Bolton have the intelligence or foreign policy background to deal with the Taliban.
The Whit House wants simple and immediate results with The Taliban. That will never happen.
The Taliban knows Trump wants to win in 2020 and a peace talk treaty that returns our war heroes gets him back to the Oval Office. TheTaliban knows this; they understand our political system and election cycles better than the war planning policy wonks who got us into Nam and now Afghanistan. One knows what happened to Saigon in 1975 after the Paris Peace talks to get us out of Nam. The same result will happen in Afghanistan if our government tries to out fake The Taliban, because no one in the American government knows how to deal with a place we have been at war for 18 years that has cost us thousands of American Armed Forces’ lives and trillions of dollars.
To the Taliban, tomorrow is just another day
3
@brownpelican28 Equating the US war in Vietnam and the Afghan war is incorrect. Our enemies in Vietnam fought to re-unify their country and build a modern society (which they are doing albeit in an authoritarian way). Our enemies in Afghanistan want to restore the theocratic government they ran, banning education of girls and women, destroying ancient art and books and making sure that their country stays in the Middle Ages. The Vietnam War was propelled by Cold War rivalry. The Afghan War was propelled by a legitimate desire to destroy the organization that caused 9/11. Yet our cozy relationship with Saudi Arabia and our unwillingness to confront Pakistan, the Taliban's enabler, has made it impossible to prevent the Taliban from either regaining control of Afghanistan or keeping real progress from happening in that country.
The photo of Trump in the Oval office says it all. Here is a man who is 100 percent ignorant and incompetent to even negotiate the smallest thing. Add Pompeo to the mix--way out of his league--and you end up with a confederacy of dunces, ill prepared to deal with tense negotiations requiring resolve, diplomatic savvy, and experience, none of which this administration possesses.
39
Has there been any reporting on the attack the supposedly caused us to withdraw from negotiations?
"Mr. Pompeo said that the Taliban had “tried to gain negotiating advantage by conducting terror attacks inside the country,’’ resulting in the death of an American soldier in Kabul. “We’re going to walk away from a deal if others try to use violence to achieve better ends in a negotiation,’’ he said."
I want to know everything about this attack. Was it as Pompeo says--an attack somehow calculated to try to improve their position in negotiations--or was it a rogue Taliban agent taking out his own attack?
5
@BB
Its the Taliban we're talking about here-
As the British, Soviets and now US have learned, they're all rogue agents.
We've committed our $2,000,000,000,000,000 and our soldiers to defeating a government most akin to a cat-herding exercise.
1
Trump seems clueless here. On the other hand, what if the US decided to scale down its presence in Afghanistan, in conjunction with allowing any non-Taliban Afghani emigration to our country? This would save both US and Afghani lives, and cost less in lives and dollars. Maybe I am also clueless here, but just a thought.
1
Couple of thoughts:
- He must not have seen any profit to be made in having the talks in Mar-A-Lago or the DC Post Office. Perhaps the Taliban were concerned about the "bedbug" reports.
- At least we now know for certain how the Terrorists are getting into the country. The president invites them in.
15
How many "deals" has the great "Deal Maker" brokered since he became President?
21
He's sold mar-a-lago memberships to dozens of Russian and Chinese agents, at twice the price they went for in 2016.
6
The operative word is “broken.”
2
Just the thought that Trump would allow the Taliban to foul our homeland after all the bloodshed they brought upon our military in the past 20 years is almost incomprehensible. Every Veteran is getting spat upon.This man knows nothing. He is a horror show. What's next, having Isis over to the White House for a barbecue? Enough already.
18
No veteran is being spat upon. That hippies spat upon Vietnam Veterans is a malicious lie. Never happened. Hippies do not act that way, but they may have strewn the veterans with flowers. As for the bloodshed visited upon our troops, you seem to forget that we are invading their country, not the other way around.
2
The world has become insane. We have wasted hundreds of lives and 15 years in Afghanistan to prevent another terrorist attack. Yet we keep the border wide open for anyone to cross. Can someone please tell me the logic in this?
5
I can’t, because I don’t know why right-wingers can’t seem to recall how we got involved in Afghanistan, how they shrieked at Obama, or that nobody wants open national borders.
2
@Jon Galt
What border do you imagine that we are keeping wide open?
3
@Jon Galt. What does the border have to do with any of this? The 9/11 attacks were via airplanes. Apples and oranges.
1
The fact that women representatives have been excluded from all Afghan peace talks is wrong.
Everyone knows how the Taliban treats women. To overlook such evil in any peace talks is to become a party to the evil.
Besides, Trump would have been a clown in such a meeting. The Taliban and Afghan leaders would have withheld 'honoring' Trump with false fawning. Maybe the Taliban even plotted another killing spree while on USA soil to boost their own image.
8
@Alice
Trump would have shown up for the ribbon cutting and the photo op, he would not have had the time for the details.
Interfers with the golf game.
2
Trump and Pompeo have neither the patience nor skill for diplomatic success. If bullying doesn’t work for a quick victory, they have no other arrows in the quiver. The Taliban will simply wait these incompetent fools out.
There will be no good outcome for us in Afghanistan, as there hasn’t been for any would-be conqueror there in a thousand years. Forget not that this entire folly was the disastrous idea of another failed Republican President.
11
“Over a thousand Taliban killed in just the last 10 days”? By our forces? What happened?
Please, Mr Pompeo and New York Times, we need to know more specifics about all deaths and injuries, not only Americans.
16
The Taliban are a bit smarter than we think ourselves. This administration has attention spans of nano-seconds. My experience with Afghans is that the smallest time increment they recognize is a decade.
They are smarter than we are in this.
As an Afghan vet, I came to respect the people of Afghanistan. They are hospitable, brave and resilient. I fear we will sell them out for a short-lived political expedient which will fail.
By the way, it is not a military problem there. It ceased to be a military issue in late 2001. However, our desire for "success" within our nano-second frames of reference never recognized the issues are economic and social.
Those issues can be addressed, but it takes decades of hard work. We need to invest in our Department of State, and turn our Department of Defense to threats which have a military solution.
Educate the women.
49
This administration has decimated the state department. They clearly are the enemy of science and reason. Education and the social sciences are the key to foreign affairs. Throwing money to buy off the problems of the Middle East won’t work as the trump and kushner real estate empires have done with in NYC. They have made a foreign affairs mess in Afghanistan, the Middle East and the Korea Japan relationship. The thing to do is vote 2020.
10
Though questionable under the murky circumstances, this incident points to a fallacy that seemed to derail negotiations that, having watched the PBS investigation into the Vietnam war, leads to further death and destruction, not peace. That is the fallacy that, in the name of securing a dominant position in "peace" negotiations, the parties continue to hammer on their strengths via more killing of the enemy troops and/or innocent civilians. I know nothing of game theory, but good faith negotiations would demand good faith actions to create trust in the other's intentions. This idea of constantly hammering home dominance while "negotiating" cannot, in my mind, ever lead to a true and lasting resolution. It will always blow up somewhere further along the line. While applying this principle requires skill and determination, not pollyannish blind faith, or compulsive manipulation, it could make a difference. The Taliban needs to stop practicing terrorism. We need to stop compromising our principles and engage in coherent peacemaking policy.
6
Ya know, I bet getting out of Afghanistan was one of the things Trump really wanted to do. It fits with the violent nationalistic isolationism that his base loves so much.
But the forever war investors and war profiteers of the defense contracting community will never let that happen, even if a deal were to be had. Not that I have any love for the Taliban. It wasn’t exactly a pleasure running from rockets and mortars in Kandahar when I was US Army. The Taliban were never going to accept any of the US’ terms, just like the North Koreans were never going to stop developing nuclear weapons.
We are running into the same problem in Afghanistan we had in Vietnam. It’s the same thing happening over and over and over again because citizens of this country are completely unknowledgeable of their own history. In Vietnam, the United States lacked the capacity to defeat an extremely ideologically motivated enemy. It’s the same in Afghanistan. The fact is, the Taliban is more motivated to achieve an absolute victory than the US is. Every time the United States bombs or shoots up a Taliban connected community, it creates more allies of the Taliban.
I don’t know how the United States gets out of there. But I do know that Donald Trump is not capable of the nuance required to do it in a way that won’t lead to a complete destabilization of the entire region.
30
So you have no suggestion for how to get out? But you are then super critical of the president? Why?
While I don't like Trump's approach or way of handling things, the situation was very delicate in Afghanistan long before he came to office. I mean, you're expecting him to succeed where 2 previous administrations failed. Think about it, even an intelligent, articulate man like Obama who had campaigned to end America's (already) long wars was unable to exit Afghanistan in 8 years.
I would argue that the lack of a well thought out Afghan strategy actually hails from the Bush era. It was a mistake to go in when the only feasible land route went through Pakistan - a nuclear-armed pariah which has consistently threatened to cut off supplies into Afghanistan. What did it get in return for jeopardising the US efforts to counterterrorism? $26 billion in aid.
Whereas Afghan leaders (Karzai and now Ghani) long spoke out against Pakistani backing of the Taliban, US Presidents were keen to play it safe, driven by a need to assuage a war-weary public. How do you bring to task a nuclear-armed state in the region without escalating tensions? So Obama did things quietly, stepping up drone strikes in the Af-Pak border. This wasn't enough.
Trump is selfish and wants to portray a victory like Nixon's "peace with honour" in Vietnam. But it is wrong to say he's responsible for the entire debacle unfolding.
What cost America the war was a poor choice of ally, the lack of alternate supply routes (giving a nuclear-armed rogue state leverage) and acquiescing to the public as a democracy.
2
@Jack
I have no expectations that he (a draft dodger and serial failure) and Pompeo (whose military experience is limted to a rare situation that required neither combat experience nor diplomacy) would eve succeed at this.
Like his immigration policy, and his middle east plan, and his health care plan, and his infrastructure plan, and his gun violence plan, the best we can hope for for is to march in place on these issues for another year or so until people with the experience and expertise can take over.
Problem is he's making all of those things worse, by an order of magnitude, and making this country do nothing but try and cope with his messes to the exclusion of any real progress.
I think violence has been a part of Afghanistan for as long as it has existed. They may expect violent, but they would always expect violence, regardless of Trump or the US, or Russia for that matter, or any other nation that thought they could control Afghanistan.
I predict there will be violence in Afghanistan if we stay or if we leave. No one has ever succeeded in eliminating violence in Afghanistan and the Trump administration is certainly not going to be the ones who do.
7
Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger did a much better job in throwing a country under the bus.
Perhaps Trump should go back to forecasting hurricanes and let adults work with other countries.
19
@Dan...What? Kennedy and Johnson don't get any credit for the American War? That doesn't seem fair at all. Jack ramped up things quickly as soon as Camelot moved into the White House, and Lindy defeated the powerful NV Navy in the epic Battle of Tonkin Gulf. Now, those studs were real adults. That old bus was cruisin' for a bruisin' long before Dick and Hank made the scene.
Aside from the unconscionable precedent of hosting a terrorist group on American soil, someone should remind Donald Trump that the Taliban is loose coalition of independent tribes with no enduring organizational structure. The idea that they have a coherent leadership that can even speak authoritatively for the group, let alone engage in meaningful negotiations, is objectively absurd.
15
Don’t you think it is also objectively absurd to simply do nothing?
2
What a bungled 18 years and it really is Bush’s fault, not Trumps. It’s Vietnam redux, pure and simple. If we went in like Iraq ( I know it was not possible) crushed the Taliban, told them to behave and left (knowing the Taliban would return to power) we would have some credibility with the Taliban. They would come back, but they would be weary of repeating their mistakes. Now, they know we are never coming back and they will be testing us immediately. Religious freedom, no way. Women’s rights, gone. Political freedom, gone. What will we do? cut off aid, big deal, but everyone knows we are not going back. We can’t nation build and shouldn’t try. If a dysfunctional country acts against our national security, target drone strikes against their leadership is the future. Maybe it will work, I doubt it, but we can’t build societies. As painful as it is to watch, the people of a nation, just like us with this current president, are responsible for ousting bad leaders ( in our case, vote out).
5
Trump wants a promise that the Taliban will not carry out terrorist attacks in the US. Where is there any demand that the Taliban will not topple the Afghan government? Trump is throwing the Afghans under the bus in order to shore up his voter base by claiming he has fulfilled a campaign promise to bring home American servicemen.
In the end as other comments have stated, Afghanistan will be right back were it was 20 years ago. I feel sorry for the American families who have lost loved ones there.
And I feel sorry for the Afghans who will once again live under the thumb of the Taliban. This outcome will be even worse than Vietnam.
8
@John Christoff
Well said, John. The real shame here are those who've lost loved one in this 18 years and counting debacle.
Misspent American lives.
Gen Dunford is, I think, right. The US is not going to settle, because it simply can’t as outsider, the basic civil war in Afghanistan, which only those of that land can do ... and only if they really want. The US negotiating with one side and excluding the other would seem sure to make that civil war worse, especially because trust, so crucial to achieve some sort of tolerant harmony, is totally absent. It’s good that the planned Camp David meeting was called off, even if pretext was used. And the there’s the problem of Trump, adding to all of this in ways that are incalculable. In observing the divisive situation in Afghanistan, one might wonder whether we aren’t headed, if not warned, for the same ... urged on by Trump through the conduct of his office for the sake of himself and his ambitions.
4
In Congress foolishness often speaks louder than Wisdom. When an arrogant and intemperate Cheney speaks, this maxim is reinforced.re-confirmed.
Representative Liz Cheney, the Wyoming Republican and daughter of former Vice President Dick Cheney, said “no member of the Taliban should set foot’’ in the presidential retreat. “The Taliban still harbors Al Qaeda,”
7
@John B Don't forget that Yasser Arafat set foot in the White House, per Bill Clinton.
Even the Taliban considers the word of the US president to be so worthless that they see no point in negotiating.
Let that sink in.
114
Who could have guessed ???
Sad.
9
This is what foreign policy by Twitter gets you.
75
Help, please !
Has anyone out there figured out what is it that makes the insurgents so indiscriminately callous about their brethren life ?
5
@Jak "Has anyone out there figured out what is it that makes the insurgents so indiscriminately callous about their brethren life ?"
For a second there, I thought you were talking about 45. Both in the Christian sense of all people are our brothers, and in the patriotic sense of burning our agriculture sector on the altar of his simplistic understanding of tariffs.
The Taliban is made up of fanatics, to one degree or another. That should give you a clue.
Probably the same thing that makes a big part of the American population callous to their fellows.
5
Power & control. It's at the heart of men's cruelty the world over and throughout time. It, they (in general), seem never to evolve no matter the lessons learned.
2
The opportune moment has finally arrived for Mr. Trump. He can show us now that he knows more than the generals (from "watching the shows") and secure a massive military victory in Afghanistan leading to a lasting peace.
I can't speak for anyone else but I can't wait to spend my "peace dividend."
14
Trump will claim credit for anything good that happens and blame Obama for anything bad that happens. This we should all know by now.
As for Afghanistan --we ought to withdraw all of our forces and let the Afghan government work out how it wants to live with the Taliban. Does anyone really believe that the Taliban will honor any agreement it reaches with either the U.S. or the Afghan government ?
It is also highly debatable as to whether the Al Qeada of 18 years ago has reconstituted itself with training bases in Afghanistan. There are indeed Jihadist groups in Africa, Afghanistan and Waziristan and Pakistan. Yet the only attacks in our country have been conducted by amateur-wannabes.
We need heightened security at home with better policing and legal surveillance, while working with other countries and their security agencies to prevent attacks here. Unfortunately, Democrats will refuse to be so honest as to take this common-sense approach, lest the Liz Cheneys of this world accuse them of being "weak"--a charge that has worked for Republicans since the end of WWII. Amy Klobuchar and other Democrats spout gobbledygook about Afghanistan-- running away in fear of discredited chicken hawks like Liz Cheney.
We don't need Democrats acting. "Tough" or "strong" like Hillary Clinton. It just looks phony while also having the disadvantage of being 100% wrong.
4
@John C we can’t leave now, how will the war profiteers make their money? Oh I forgot, the next fake war!
4
@John C "Unfortunately, Democrats will refuse to be so honest as to take this common-sense approach..."
What does it have to do with being "honest", and why accuse Democrats of not taking an approach that they certainly took under Obama? If you think that wasn't enough, then you also need to cite the Republicans, too.
We don't need Republicans acting. "Tough" or "strong" like Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell. It just looks phony while also having the disadvantage of making things even worse, if having any effect at all when nothing is actually done. Strike that: doing nothing IS doing something.
3
The peace talks were a sham as far as the Taliban were concerned. The Taliban want to rule Afghanistan as they largely did before 9/11. They already control large parts of the country. It is noticeable that they decline to negotiate with the nominal Afghan Government. The British and the Soviets had miserable times in Afghanistan and now the US.
16
As Rick Wilson so aptly pointed out, "Everything Trump Touches Dies." That includes a lot of Afghans.
55
Seems to me likely that Trump wanted Camp David because he had foolish thoughts that he would thereby one-up Jimmy Carter and the Camp David.
Also seems likely to me that Bolton threw every conceivable
argument to oppose a withdrawal at Trump, knowing that one, however illogical or inconsistent with facts, might stick.
That said, for my part, I think that agreeing to anything with the taliban is foolish unless we are fully prepared to enforce that agreement, with military force if necessary.
9
@Anne "...I think that agreeing to anything with the taliban is foolish unless we are fully prepared to enforce that agreement, with military force if necessary."
Essentially, that's the status quo except that we'd have to invade Afghanistan again from scratch when (not if) the Taliban inevitably goes about their fanatical business.
2
It’s my opinion that Trump is looking for some way to get a Nobel Peace prize so he can notch that into his belt of accomplishments. With less than 14 months to go before the election he is desperate for any accolades that can legitimize his tainted presidency.
40
Nobody's giving him a prize for anything. Nobel committee isn't made of a bunch of fools.
There is no easy-to-comprehend authoritarian nationalist solution in this conflict which means that Trump is completely lost. Let’s not pretend that President Trump has any sort of strategy for this, in all likelihood he is only just learning the basic geography of the Middle East. Whatever happens, he’ll act first then justify later. His base will love it, whatever “it” is.
35
Central Asia. Afghanistan isn't in the Middle East.
4
@Roman Doyle
More likely this is a Sean Hannity idea.
4
@CGatesMD It's not on the Arabian peninsula but don't we still consider it the Middle East? Well, either way, I would never assume that the knowledge of Afghanistan I have right now is enough to be the Commander in Chief.
The article states that "Mr. Trump’s aides said they were mystified..." Well, we are all mystified, and most importantly the Afghan government appears to be mystified by the goings on between Trump and the Taliban (the Afghan government are not part of the negotiations). Given Trump's thousands of lies over the last 3 years, the story is likely a fabrication, more commonly know as a rip roaring lie. It is more likely that the Taliban called off talks. Nobody seems to know what the next step is to be, which may also be a lie. Likely Trump will receive a very nice letter from the Taliban, written by Trump. Anything can happen from there - very nice letters tend to allow everyone to step back again and plan the next lies.
28
If the U.S. and its allies have been spending billions and billions of dollars and using the most advanced technological weapons against the Taliban, if Afghanistan has an elected government and a military that opposes the Taliban, and if the Afghan people generally don't support them, then how is it possible that the Taliban has not only been able to continue its campaign of terror all these years but is winning? Somebody must be supporting the Taliban big-time. Until we figure that out and do something about it, this war will go on forever, unless of course we just give up and leave the unfortunate Afghan people to their fate.
6
@Tiny Tim
This sounds like the same complaint the Soviets had in Afghanistan in the 1980's, where someone was supporting the Mujaheddin and counter-Soviet forces.
Did they ever figure out who they were and bring them to justice?
Oops, err... Nevermind.
3
@peter Well, that was us of course, and some of the Mujaheddin became Al Queda and probably some of them then became Taliban, but that was a long time ago. Surely they aren't still using the same weapons that we gave them way back then. Or could they be? But they would still have to get more ammunition somehow. How is it that we were able to roll back ISIS in Syria but can't do the same against the Taliban?
With or without peace talks it will be a withdrawal with our tail between our legs. A war of our own making which should have never happened,like so many others. Everyone lost, but mostly the innocent civilian population. When will we ever learn?
12
@kirk not everyone lost, think of all the rich billionaires that run the war profiteering businesses!
4
I have been a liberal all my life but seeing fellow liberals root for the president and the country to fail, only so they can pat each other on the back for hating the president, has made a Trump supporter.
4
@SemiConscious I see liberals rooting for Trump to smarten up and listen to some of his advisors. I don't know there, Semi...I think you are trying to turn moderates with a specious argument.
21
@SemiConscious - my country right or wrong, my king can do no wrong.
Those are the attitude that would have us all still subjects of the crown.
It is our American heritage, dating from 1776, that we are able to find fault and seek solutions with our government. Finding fault and pointing our errors in a free and open government is not "rooting for the country to fail" it is patriotic quest for improvement.
48
@SemiConscious
No-one is rooting for Trump to fail.
Trump does that all on his own. He is just such a natural at it. I mean, he has practically signed the death warrants on additional US soldiers now because he couldn't put together a realistic plan with the Taliban. He did that. We, like you, are just watching his ridiculousness.
59
"[S]ome of Mr. Trump’s fellow Republicans expressed outrage at the thought of the Taliban coming to Camp David, where President George W. Bush gathered his war cabinet days after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks to plan a military campaign against Afghanistan to wipe out Al Qaeda and kill its leader, Osama bin Laden."
I'm sure. It would remind them that the attacks were a criminal, not military, action. It would remind them that the Taliban did not attack the USA. It would remind them that bin Laden was in Pakistan. It would remind them that the USA under the Bush regime invaded and occupied a foreign country in contravention of the UN Charter. It would remind them that bin Laden and 3/4 of the hijackers were Saudi thugs, like the ones who murder journalists, abuse women, and treat foreign workers like slaves. It would remind them that there are war criminals sitting on their corporate boards and advising policy from their high-paying think tanks. It would remind them that the Taliban are no worse than they are. It would remind them of so much.
That's got to be uncomfortable, even for a Republican.
95
@CGatesMD
"That's got to be uncomfortable, even for a Republican."
At least the honest ones. The rest drank the Kool-aid long ago.
4
Trump can not think ahead, he does not consider the consequences of his actions, or his inactions. Trump’s erratic mind and methods are causing harm the world over, his diplomacy is nonsensical, unethical, and inane. A president can not act off the cuff and expect to be successful in any way whatsoever, this man is dangerous for everyone. The Taliban should never have been invited to Camp David, the peace talks should be held in a neutral country without our vain president joining in for a photo opportunity.
51
The only thing missing in this latest debacle of this criminally feckless administration is a quote from the president* along the lines of “We’ll see what happens.”
22
The narcissism contained within this president is bottomless. Every move is calculated to bolster and satisfy his psychotic ego. Complicated by the complicit support he receives from those in his administration that massage that massive ego.
My impression was that Pompeo was straining at the bit in his Sunday media appearance explaining the failed negotiations with the Taliban. Then stating a sad experience at Dover Airbase to bring home a fallen warrior. Only to follow up with, "well we killed 1000 Taliban in the past week", seemed an attempt to sooth the death of one soldier. Just another tragic note to be uncovered by the press in house of trump.
44
@Bob81+3
Pompeo is a feckless talking-head with dreams of someday occupying 1600 himself. He will say anything he needs to convey he is in control of a situation when all indications point to the contrary.
We can only hope the stain of this administration is permanent.
5
Imagine what the GOP would be screaming this morning if Obama did this.
79
And imagine how the democrats would be swooning
1
@Saints Fan Obama cut and run from Iran? Really? I guess if you define negotiating a multi-party deal that allows inspectors into their country to ensure they are abiding by international treaty to not make nukes, you might have a point. Instead, we have returned to the folly of trying to isolate them. In case you haven't noticed, isolation doesn't work. Just ask Trump's friend Kim. His nuke and missile programs are going quite well despite decades of sanctions designed to strangle their country. Iran will have nukes faster thanks to Trump's blatant idiocy.
1
@Ken
And that is one of the biggest problems confronting America today. Politics built on division.
It's like we are living in a Rorschach test. My party: Good! Your party: Bad!
I'm sick of it. Sick of Trump. Sick of republicans. Sick of democrats. There was a chance to put an end to 18 years of carnage, death and bloodshed. Yes, Trump and his ego got in the way. But then all either side can do is point fingers and hurl insults at the other. Revolting.
When the New York Times accepts Trump and Pompeo's word on anything when there are competing narratives out there on this Afghanistan debacle, then it is clear to me the role the media has played and continues to play in supporting, normalizing, and excusing Trump. I am tired of this press enabling of Trump and the GOP to the nth degree.
42
@Meg This. The media created this man and they could destroy him in 24 hours with one thing; the point blank truth. The media always prints the lie and buries the truth. Imagine if the media said "White House Changes Official Hurricane Map to Promote Lie" or "Barr's Mueller Memo Proves to be a Lie" or "Trump's Strategy to End Afghanistan War Ends in Failure". They had no problem slagging Hillary 10x a day, but they can't bring themselves to stop this reality show. Unbridled capitalism truly is killing us.
1
The rhetorical lengths the author of this article to discount the killing of a U.S. Soldier on the eve of the planned talks is sickening.
12
No winning this one Donald.
5
Your headline is sort of like an Onion headline ie unintentional, intentional dark humor.
When was Afghanistan not violent?
11
The U.S. should be treating the Taliban the same way we treated the Confederate State governments after the Civil War, the Nazis, or the Ba'ath Party in Iraq. I am generally a military isolationist but having invaded Afghanistan, I don't understand how we can allow the Taliban to remain a political power in the country. We don't need to use American troops but should arm the Afghan Army with the necessary weapons to completely defeat the Taliban.
2
Trump's failure with the Taliban only adds to the evidence that he is not the "Great Negotiator" he claims to be. Kim Jong-un used Donald for a photo op and produced no treaty or demonstrable result, ... except photos. How much have the Mexicans paid for the border wall? "Trade wars are easy to win". Tell that to the soybean farmers in mid-west.
“You don't reward failure by promoting those responsible for it, because all you get is more failure.”
― Donald J. Trump, Trump: The Art of the Deal
17
Another case of the president not knowing what he's doing, except now he's dong it on the world stage. November 2020 can't come soon enough.
If DJT doesn't destroy our fragile democracy, he has published the blueprint and playbook for some other demagogue to do it later. If a democracy like America's is going to exist, there will have to be a paradigm shift in human thought throughout the world.
In the near future, we will program the human mind in the computer based on a "survival" algorithm, which will provide irrefutable proof as to how we trick the mind with our ridiculous beliefs about what is important and what is supposed to survive - producing minds programmed de facto for dirty tricks and destruction. These minds see the survival of a particular belief as more important than the survival of us all. When we understand this, we will begin the long trek back to reason and sanity.
See RevolutionOfReason.com
5
After nearly 18 years of war, hundreds of thousands of lives lost and a truly cosmic amount of money spent...we’re right were we started, the Taliban control Afghanistan. The title for worst President ever might not be so easily earned by Trump; W’s astounding incompetence set a high bar.
19
@Upstate Guy
How did we as a nation fall so low in such a short time.
Thanks Mitch McConnell!
Your support of this narcissistic con man and pathological liar will follow you into the history books as the worst Senate Majority Leader of all time.
2
@Upstate Guy Remember what W said about Trump, "Makes me look pretty good now."
How many men, women and children have died or been mortally wounded, including American soldiers, since the Bush Cheney decision to invade Afghanistan to search for Osama bin Laden, whom they never caught? The travesty continues...
14
The photo op of Trump shaking hands with the Taliban at Camp David was to be Trump's and his Republican party's commemoration of the 911 terrorist attacks. It would have topped Bush's victory banner displayed after he captured that aircraft carrier.
22
@cbindc
Trump is a widely known and proven pathological liar.
And just look at his his record of successful "deals" with foreign leaders.
It is a big fat ZERO.
Trump can exchange love letters all he wants with Kim Jong Un, but North Korea is still developing its nuclear program and is still testing its long range missiles.
Meanwhile our television addict and golf playing president sits on his derriere all day and tweets derogatory comments about U.S. citizens.
10
So, really, they might just cut and run....
3
Unfortunately, the Taliban cannot be trusted. The Taliban are like any other religious fundamentalists - Christian or otherwise. They are finely attuned to an alternate reality shaped by their religion and, ultimately, that is where their allegiance lies. (No pun intended.) Any agreement with "infidels" is voidable in spite of any promises. They have no honor except among other Islamic fundamentalists.
13
@Glenn Thomas
Here we go again...a shocking
diversionary tactic by Trump to distract American voters from his increasingly bizarre behaviors, his desperate tweets, his rapidly declining polls and mounting legal issues.
Trump and the Taliban.
What a pair.
Both so trustworthy.
We all know that this "meeting" would have lasted no more than 5 minutes before Trump would have gotten up and walked out.
No U.S. president would ever invite known foreign terrorists to U.S. soil to "negotiate".
4
Forget Afghanistan. It is not a country. It is a collection of barbaric tribes. What a waste.
After 9/11 our response should have been to bomb Kabul and Kandahar reducing both cities to rubble. That’s it. Other countries would get the message: support terrorist attacks on the US ala 9/11 and be reduced to rubble.
We would have avoided 18 years of costly war which we have LOST. Like Vietnam LOST.
4
@Max Plank Funny you mentioned Vietnam. It was impossible, to achieve military objectives when the enemy was capable of mobilizing an almost unlimited stream of men and materiel across the border of a neighboring country that could not be invaded or attacked. Likewise, we've been trying to plug the leaks from the Pakistani version of the Ho Chi Minh trail since Nov. 2001.
5
Afghanistan is a tar baby. We have killed many many more ( of their people, "terrorists" and civilians and ours in the the process) than were killed on September 11th 2001.
Trump was going to get us out period. But if he wants a "win" he is not going to get it with this one. Afghanistan is a tar baby. The Taliban will win. Neither side is believable or trustworthy in any deal. This goes for any deal on any front that Trump may want to make and later blame others for failure.
5
It was never the intention of this president or any American president to abandon the vast poppy fields & rich lithium deposits of Afghanistan. The war will go on ad infinitum paid & supported by the American taxpayer to benefit the few lucky corporations that do business alongside our military. We might as well participate in our empire building and invest in Northrop Grumman & BAE Systems stock.
12
So long as Trump has made it clear he is open to the possibility of a no-deal withdrawal of American troops, it's in the Taliban's best interest to ensure that is exactly what happens. Why fully commit to peace talks when they know there's a possibility there will be no US forces to stop them later from taking down the Afghan government?
9
America is adrift. Trump is delusional.
The Republican Party is in ruins.
26
It is time for the Afghani’s to stand on their own. Let the Taliban take over with the understanding that if any terrorist attacks are facilitated by them, the United States will counter in the most sever manner possible. yes, that includes nuclear weapons. This religious nonsense will otherwise never end. Once the elected Afghani government is overthrown, it should take but a matter of days before the Taliban begins to launch even more attacks. This strategy worked very well to end WWII.
2
@Dan Micklos
Just one nuclear bomb will cause sunlight to disappear for the entire globe. For weeks. Killing off all food for all humans, other animals and all other species.
Please research and THINK more.
4
We should never have been in talks with the Taliban. The Taliban and the barbarity they represent should not be allowed to exist in a modern world.
9
Who are these Taliban “leaders” who hang out in Doha? Are they the guys who sell the drugs and distribute the money? Do they really control the fighters In Afghanistan, or do they work for them? Or something in between?
8
@Steve
Steve, most folks in the Afghan ruling classes and political elites derive income from the export of opium.
Karzai's family (large landholders and poppy growers) have been in the trade since the 1950s.
The Ts in Doha are Ts with some education who are able to conceptualize and negotiate.
While the Ts, like everyone else, make money from poppies, they are not fighting for the poppy trade nor are they negotiating on behalf of the poppy trade.
But when we leave, the Ts and all the other power centers will continue to profit from poppies.
This is life in Afghanistan.
5
“...would lead to the signing of a peace agreement.”
Please.....! Nothing Trump boast about has come to be a milestone.
I know the media has to cover the news about the ”President of the USA”, but the clown we have as will never have an strategy because he is the most ignorant person the US could chose for a President... And whatever it is written about him is just a plain show.... nothing substantial.
The GOP wanted a business man for a president. There you have it. A business mam working for his own and family business....
5
I have never seen such an unpredictable President ever in history. May God save America’s credibility abroad! Amen
13
Are we all being naive about this meeting---my read is this was a fake meeting--like the call from China. Even if there was a "real" meeting scheduled, it would follow his dear friends Kim's format---a couple of photo ops...shake hands...claiming one of the Al Qaeda operatives is his best friend now...Having said that, the optics on this one..right before 9/11 would even bring Moscow Mitch to his feet.
9
@Amanda Jones
Could very well be. That is the problem with an administration that has squandered any credibility they may have had. We can never be sure that we are getting the truth about anything.
10
With a president like this, who needs enemies?
37
Not at all clear whether this move is designed to pressure the Tabliban or Ashraf Ghani (or, conceivably, both).
2
@Rachel Kreier
Designed? You are reaching well beyond Trump's capabilities. He has personally stated that he relies solely on gut impulse.
7
Let's see here, a half witted shady real estate broker and a third string negotiating team trying to tweet a peace plan with the Taliban, what could possibly go wrong?
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One car bombing in Afghanistan made Trump withdraw from peace talks. In 2017 the United States’ military dropped 26,000 bombs on seven Muslim countries without any perspective of negotiations. Then the Americans call Muslims terrorists. It is time to wake up.
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If Osama bin Laden were still alive, Trump would have invited him to Mar a Lago for a September 11 commemoration. Trump would brag how President Obama was wrong to hunt him down for 9-11. Bin Laden would effusively praise Trump and offer him a casino hotel in Afghanistan that was staffed by Taliban security. On Fox “News”, Laura Ingraham would mock President Obama by using an exploding model of the Twin Towers as a prop.
Does anyone doubt this crowd would do this?
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"Mr. Trump’s aides said they were mystified about whether the president had a new strategy..."
I'm not. The answer is no. And further, he never had one in the first place.
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@cherrylog754
The President strategic? Are we talking about the same man?
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This, our country, in the hands of Donald Trump. We can hardly think of anything worse anymore.
No matter Afghanistan, natural resource decimation, withholding the building of healthcare and educational facilities for our soldiers and their families to instead build a ridiculous unnecessary obsessive border wall, embarrassment of longtime American civil servants, clinging to relationships with those unworthy of trust, North Korea and Russia, threatening of our life saving healthcare benefits, Donald Trump has thrown the care for United States to the wind.
Watching Mike Pompeo being interviewed on the Sunday talk shows was saddening - allegiance to a very sick man, Trump, instead of to the mores and standards of our country. The quality of life our family members have served for and died for, ignored because of this president.
What will it take to finally end this toxic capture of our country and restore responsible sane leadership?
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I suppose voting, though I view the cause as hopeless. The US is populated by too many angry uneducated hateful people, which like a widely metastatic cancer cannot be overcome. This country is finished. Young families should emigrate . Those whose favorite pastime is to watch horror movies should stay.
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An election of a capable and well qualified presidential candidate. Can’t wait...
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@MIMA
It will take people using their brains instead of their emotions when they vote.
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Considering the fact that the Taliban increased its' violence before the talks were called off, this article is disingenuous.
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The Taliban sent Trump a message he ignored in his haste to get a photo to commemorate 911. Most likely Trump was about to be stood up so he bailed.
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In our next episode, Trump will declare that he got a very nice letter from the Taliban promising to kill as many Americans as possible and that he has fallen hopelessly in love with them. And to think that if he had just offered the Taliban some chocolate cake at Mar a Lago, this whole fiasco would have been avoided and the Taliban could have worked on their golf handicaps.
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@Joe B. you just made my morning! Ah the magical cure-all that is Mar-a-Lago’s chocolate cake!
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@Joe B.
Plus, I'm sure Trump promised to build a gold gilded Trump hotel in Afghanistan and make the Taliban all rich.
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Something is wrong with this title: "After Trump Calls Off Talks, Afghanistan Braces for Violence" since he called off the meeting because of the bombing.
While one should always give peace a chance, inviting the Talibans to Camp David was a terrible idea since they have been hostile, bombing or no bombing. John Foster Dulles's refusal to shake Chou En-lai's hand in Switzerland was a mistake (it was rectified by Nixon going to China) but Trump/Pompeo's invitation of the Talibans on American soil, Camp David, part of the inner sanctum of America, so close to the anniversary of 9-11, is a huge international blunder - and Pompeo's failure to stop Trump sending out the invitation shows he is not fit to be a diplomat
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"... it was unclear where Mr. Trump would go from here."
That is the definition of diplomacy under Donald Trump. And, what's worse, the president doesn't even know what he'll do next. My guess is he'll retreat to the golf course.
In the meantime, he's lit a fuse in Afghanistan, one of the foundling countries in a region full of them. His apologists will, of course, blame others for this continuing serial failure of an administration.
One might have been willing to concede the smallest credit for the president had he, before now, shown even the slightest willingness to address difficult situations around the world in which the majesty and prestige of the presidency might be brought to bear. But No. 45 has blown up the guardrails that cautioned almost every one of his predecessors. He has no knowledge of the world and he cares even less. One might have thought that, given his penchant for chaos and carnage, what's going on in Afghanistan now would be right down his Broadway.
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In 2001 Republicans opposed nations that harbored terrorists. In 2019 Trump invites the Taliban to Camp David, purely to bolster his own PR image as a deal-maker, and in the process undermines the entire negotiation. When the Taliban reject his invitation, Trump goes public and declares he is the one canceling the invite and uses the death of an American soldier to cover his failure. Shame! And then Pompeo states that we don’t negotiate with parties who use violence as a negotiating tactic and then goes on to brag how we have killed a thousand Taliban in the last 10 days. What a joke!
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Of note, 16 American soldiers have been killed by the Taliban in 2019. “Mr. Pompeo said that the Taliban had “tried to gain negotiating advantage by conducting terror attacks inside the country,’’ resulting in the death of an American soldier in Kabul.” And then Pompeo bragged that over 1000 Taliban were killed by coalition forces in the past 10 days. Liz Cheney rounded out the corruption by screeching that the Taliban, which continues to harbor Al Qaeda, should never be welcomed. What level of idiocy does this represent on the eve of 9/11 when 15 of 19 attackers came from Saudi Arabia all members of the Saudi fanatical Wahhabi cult killed over 3000 Americans? How is it possible that our entire National Security apparatus, our entire academic community, our press has not demanded a full investigation of the Saudi participation in 9/11, and with Al Qaeda and ISIS?
The Taliban are far less culpable in the 9/11 events than the Saudis. The Taliban are war lords. The Saudis are our “allies” Liz Cheney. Pompeo. We are giving our full support to Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen where our Air Force service men refuel bombers we sold to SA to bomb rebels who are fighting against the remnants of the defeated pro-Saudi government and “surprise!” Al Qaeda in Yemen.
It’s time for serious statesmen to recognize and act to end our perverted relationship with a degenerate 13th century theocratic monarchy. Clinging to oil and Saudi Arabia is a criminal enterprise that is crippling America.
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@Joseph Huben I completely agree. Our support for SA is insane.
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@Eric
God help us.
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The death of one soldier this week changed Trump's peace plan. Did anyone tell him how many American, British, Candian, NATO and Afghani soldiers and civilians died before he came up with the idea of negotiating with just the Taliban and not including leaders of the elected government of Afghanistan?
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@Tom - Not to mention the uncounted numbers of Afghans who, when last I checked, are humans also.
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@Tom
Sixteen Americans have died in Afghanistan this year.
In August of 2019 alone, 53 Americans died in mass shootings.
Let's all think about that a while, too.
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Afghanistan has proven to be a complete nightmare for both of the world's biggest superpowers, with Russia failing to reign in religious radicals in their most humiliating defeat in modern times, then Bush II dove in after a bunch of Saudi Arabians and Egyptians carried out a hugely successful terrorist attack on US soil. The seemingly endless war that resulted, has been the bane of 3 presidents and counting. Not meaning to be anti-Trump here, but of the three, his attempts to free Afghanistan from the specter and constant threat of seemingly endless Pakistan and Saudi-backed invasion and insane numbers of civilian casualties.... well, it ranks dead last. Trump has cut back on the State Department, insisted on handling negotiations in an ad-hoc grandstanding manner, and has continued the persistent pattern of appeasing the Saudis even though they are at the root of much of the terrorism in the region because of their country's endorsement of the ultraconservative, uncompromising Wahhabi Islamic sect - which Bin Laden (a prominent Saudi) was a direct product and follower of. Until the roles of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia in the horrendous terrorist attempts to regain control over Afghanistan are carefully assessed and documented, then faced head-on, NOBODY can win this war - which is the longest major conflict since the Napoleonic Wars of the 19th century.
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@Joseph Ross Mayhew It was President Obama who escalated this war to 100,000 troops against all advise. Not sure how the only President that wants to withdraw is the worst. The US has lost, Russia lost walk away
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hawk, Later Obama reduced treo levels to about 15,000 troops there. He was also the president who withdrew all of the troops in Iraq. Your omission of these facts renders your comment invalid and misleading.
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@hawk
Bush redirected the troops from Afghanistan to Iraq in 2003...big, big mistake. Obama and Trump and American and Afghani lives paid for that doozy
11
Message to our President, from the American Public: This is not a television series, to bring the Taliban to Camp David for a failed public relations Afghan political stunt.
Thousands of Americans have already died. And another brave, deceased soul was just sent home Saturday. And more will continue to die there.
Show some humanity and dignity for his family and fellow soldiers, American and Afghans. We, and you owe him and his family that!
This has been a continuing war and they, and their families, and the rest of us deserve better than this.
Our diplomatic negotiator, Zalmay Khalilzad is the best there is. He has been our diplomat and negotiator for years, for our last two Presidents, and we owe him that.
If and when there is a true, viable resolution, please do so with the respect, we owe our military, and our country!
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18 years of war in Afghanistan, a war which started basically as a revenge after the 9/11 events where the executors were Saudi. An unprepared war in a country where empires has been routed, including the Soviet Union. In country where U.S. doesn’t have real leverage, the Taliban control already 3/4 of the territory. U.S. now is cornered in a truly rocky environment and without enough clout to build a diplomatic issue... allies are missing and distrust is growing among partners and the opponent warriors, the Taliban, as well. Even before the beginning of these abruptly interrupted negotiations a rather improvised strategic plan to withdraw troops was in all truth contradicting the reality in the field. What’s next? Another Tweet? Another President?
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