First, they read. Second, they think for themselves. Third, Boris doesn’t scare them. Then last, and most importantly, they put their country over some clown that pretends to know what he’s doing. Oh, to be in England now that common sense is there...
5
You have to admit that Johnson is consistent in his campaign of lies. The latest piece of sophistry is remarkable. " I will follow the Law." A good start. " I won't do what the law tells me to do." Huh. I really shouldn't be shocked. The leave campaign started with the outright lies plastered on that bus and it worked so why stop using a winning formula.
1
The Conservatives are jumping ship only because of the immediacy of the calamity. There is no more time for talking. Republicans may also reach this point if Trump asks them to nullify the 2020 election results. That is a Rubicon some may not want to cross.
The difference is that we in the UK have Conservative politicians who are loyal to their country rather than loyal to one man, but the USA has Republicans who are loyal to one man rather than their country. Personally I think the former is better.
9
@Allsop I don't think that Republican politicians are loyal to Trump, per se. Rather, they are afraid of defying him because they are afraid of Trump's "base," which has already shown that it is willing to turn on politicians who do not toe the Trump line.
2
Britain still seems to think they matter in the world order. They don't. It's the US, Russia and China. That's it. Brexit will hurt their own economy and people and do little to others'. How the mighty have fallen.
1
Mr.Lander has expressed surprise that Boris Johnson is not getting the support of his party as President Trump gets from Republicans.Both came to office in different situations.Trump became President after 2 years of canvassing,getting the Republican nomination&then defeating a political giant-Hillary Clinton.BorisJohnson did nothing equal to that effort.
Trump holds office with a huge patronage network,He can instantly reward any politician&punish them by withholding patronage.Boris Johnson has no power of that sort.
There was vast opposition to Trump in initial stages of his Presidency.But Trump stabilised himself .Though he was a novice politician,Trump learned fast.Senators who opposed him like Jeff Flake,Corker of Arkansas,etc were pushed out of their safe Senate seats.It was immediately clear that if you oppose Trump,your career may end,
Boris Johnson did expel 21 MPs.That does create fear in his party.But if an early election is not held,then there will be a big rebellion against Johnson,
One more difference:In the US,there are huge State Governments with Governors&a host of elected officials.Such parallel points of power reduces the power of Senators&Congressmen.In the UK,MPs are the main source of power&there are no competing State Governments.
If Boris were to win an early Election&he will extract loyalty like Margaret Thatcher did at one time.Loyalty is given,when a leader is electorally powerful&holds office.Boris only holds office.He is untested in elections!
2
Johnson has been campaigning to be Tory leader (and PM) for decades. Polls but him ahead of Labour.
In a parliamentary party system the prime minister is elected by his peers and does not have a strong separate base of power. A sense of group process, identity and interdependence is clearly felt. So when a PM violates the unspoken social compact holding together the party, there will be some degree of reaction based on the perception that core principles have been betrayed.
In the more diffuse US major political players are quasi-independent feudal agents. There is no common compact that binds them. All relationships are binary and transactional. The collective bonds are weak.
A US national party is mostly an aggregate of local organizations. So a president with a strong following among the separate electorates for individual politicians can pick off his enemies one by one through local primary challenge procedures. A party's elected officials are not willing to sacrifice their careers for a greater cause because such cause is fundamentally illusory. It only exists on the level of propaganda.
3
Trump is closer to Republican orthodoxy than is stated here. They disagree with his actions on trade, but they have always been open to scapegoating immigrants and to blowing out deficits to fund republican priorities. Conservatives in lots of countries are benefit from having a reputation for good financial management while getting away with massive pork barreling. They then fuss about deficits only when the other side is in power, especially if it involves spending on social programs, that's when the "won't anybody think of the children" comes out with respect to the deficit, so only meaning their children's future, not poor children that might benefit. The Republicans moved pro immigration only because they were losing votes, and at risk of losing Florida, not because it's a long held staunchly held position. It is easily justified given it's a pro-business position, but it was never a core value of the party.
17
However much some might celebrate the defiance of British Tories vs the servility of GOP congresspeople. consider this. Given how impeachment of an American president is more difficult than that of a PM in the Westminster Parliamentary system, why would any Republican member of the house or senator entertain recalcitrance toward Trump?
At the end of the day, the posture of both is predicated upon holding their positions. What's different, however, is that British MPs, including Boris Johnson, are equal peers in the House of Commons. In creating a separate branch of government, the American forefathers created an ephemeral and ersatz version of a monarch. Given how the American War of Independence was based upon rebellion against the tyranny of the British Crown, the difficulty in impeaching an American president constitutes the supreme irony.
6
It is called political integrity, an increasingly rare and valuable character trait. Some have it. Some don't. Very rare in America.
16
How is this for a conspiracy theory: the liberals wanted to leave so, knowing the conservatives would oppose them just for the sake of it, they voted to stay as a way to trick the other party into giving them exactly what they wanted. So the conservatives voted to leave and the liberals got what they wanted.
But now the conservatives are voting to stay. How ironic!
1
As a conspiracy theory it's far from reality.
1
@Oliver
That theory is about as ludicrous as most conspiracy theories.
1
Oh, that's rich. Praise Reps. for having TT's back, for staying loyal in the face of a multitude of actions designed to weaken the US on the world stage. The British lawmakers who left their Party over Boris' attempt to take Britain over the cliff to catastrophe are PATRIOTS to be praised and to be compared very favorably to their American "conservative" counterparts.
11
The British love their country.
The Republicans hate their country.
Full stop.
23
the Republican party cannot stand up to Trump and effectively govern because they do not believe in government. they care only about gaining and maintaining power in order to carve up the country for the profit of their oligarchical overlords than effectively governing for the benefit of the American people as a whole.
Trump is the not an outlier but the perfect manifestation of the Republican con game of the past 40 years.
28
@bender
Republicans opposed the government going back to Reagan. No superpower nation can withstand 40 years of third rate government without breaking apart. Trump will end in chaos.
16
Trump himself will end in chaos or America as whole will end in chaos? I fear the latter to be true.
2
@K
Hopefully either by forcing senate republicans to stand up and be counted or there being enough of a turnout to vote the Russian asset out we won't end as poorly as other countries have.
The "free and fair" referendum vote wasn't free or fair. The vote was the first use of Cambridge Analytica's targeted ads toward individual voters which were filled with falsehoods and wishful thinking. Boris and Nigel Farage used lie after lie building on Cambridge Analytica's lead to mislead the British voting public into believing Brexit would be simple and they'd get buckets of cash back saving their economy. All lies. But this was an excellent teaching moment for American voters. So many British voters stayed home, especially the young because they thought they had the referendum locked in a "stay" vote that the older segment of Britain carried the day. If Johnson called for a second "leave or stay" vote I think "stay" would prevail in huge numbers. I hope American voters learned a lesson and come out in record numbers next election and throw Trump and the entire GOP onto the trash heap.
17
@markd
What facts are you basing this on? The Brexit turnout vote was 72.2% of the electorate. https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
That is not low. The last time vote turnout was higher than that was in the 1994 elections, per the House of Commons statistics. http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm
3
Only 38 percent of electorate voted leave. Hardly popular populism!
Maybe fear has something to do with it. Boris Johnson has 1 M followers on Twitter, about 1.5% of the UK population. Trump has 64M, about 20% of the US population.
2
@Nordic I think you need to take into account all those who "follow" TT as part of their jobs - like journalists. And all of those who just like some crazy in their lives but don't support TT. There are so many more reasons to "follow" someone besides liking or supporting what they say or do.
9
I hope you are right...
2
You call the British Prime Minister 'a wayward leader' when he is simply trying to enact the will of the majority of British voters who won the free and fair referendum vote, the biggest democratic vote in British history, to leave the control of an increasingly undemocratic European Union. He was elected as leader by more than two thirds of conservative party members, the most support by a leader for a long time. Since when does the New York Times no longer support democracy and the concept that if you lose an election you bow out gracefully to allow the country to move on? What is happening to legacy media and journalism?
It is not in the US interests for Europe to be dominated by one undemocratic power, which is what the EU super state is morphing towards. The US reluctantly had to go to war in ww1 and ww2 in order to prevent this happening. Germany is exerting it economic power to dominate the continent again slowly, its weapon the Euro.
5
@Silence they won by lying thru their teeth about the EU robbing them and the brits would have an easy time of it and more.....
should have another referendum now that more facts are known for such a yuge move into the unknown.
if they confirm, at least they'll have a better idea of what they're really getting themselves into.
14
@Silence Your take of democracy is intriguing. Johnson was elected as a leader by 0.3% of British voters, i.e. he didn't become PM as result of parliamentary election. He then suspended (prorogued ) the parliament and now he is saying that he will not obey the law which is directing him to seek exit extension unless deal is reached or parliament approved no deal. Some democrat ! On top of it he is lying that he negotiates a deal with the EU (his top adviser privately admitted that negotiations are "sham" and last night a cabinet member resigned inter alia because of that ). On top of he does not have mandate for no deal (the was not on referendum ballot ). And finally if we leave with out deal on 31st October country will "not move on" , only then really problems will occur.
13
@Silence
The EU is a Union of twenty eight democracies, not a single undemocratic power. What led to World War Two and One was the fact that the friction from the various individual european countries, France Germany, Britain, Russia, then the Soviet Union, Poland caused the two wars. No one country dominates the EU. They have rotating leadership so no one leader can dominate as a Hitler or Stalin or Napolean might do. You must be getting your history lessons from Putin because this is exactly what he peddles, this man who wants to restore the old soviet super state and the breakup of the EU is his number one goal.
13
Republicans under Trump has become the party of Putin.
16
That's because they are educated.
37
It's really quite simple. Republican members of Congress are afraid of trump's twitter account.
42
@ChrisTrump’s Twitter account is a cash cow for Twitter; they will never put a muzzle on him. IMO, Twitter and FB may enable instant communication but have abdicated any responsibility for becoming vectors for the easy spread of evil. They should be shut down. But how? Boycott?
3
@Aetherea,
There is at least one Facebook alternative, MeWe. It does not allow advertising, it polices its pages carefully for signs of bots and doesn't censor people like Facebook and Twitter does to liberals.
1
Before we ride too high on a horse of the nobility of the "party of Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher", let's recall Sir Winston's opinion of the Indian masses spoiling for independence and the "iron" lady's thinly disguised abhorrence of nonwhite immigration.
Just as Reagan begat Trump, Churchill and Thatcher begat Johnson.
12
@JS -- There is a reason they have the nickname "the Nasty Party" and a reason why Winston Churchill left it earlier in his career.
10
Well the BRITs put country before party and they have more guts. They don’t care what Boris Johnson’s voters think of them; they aren’t afraid of Johnson and they aren’t afraid of his base.
9
Fortunately so the Tory’s are still independent enough to dissent from Johnson’s ideology and won’ t follow their leader like lambs going silently to the slaughterhouse like GOP members are doing regarding Trump’s sick leadership.
11
@Siegfried I wish that everyone in these comments discussing the Tories would stop calling them the "Tory's." It's like fingernails on a blackboard.
It's simple, the Republicans in congress only care about their own personal benefits, and for that reason they cave in to Donald...
the only principles that these Republicans have is "ME. ME, ME'...three principles of "ME ONLY"..
Voters are just fools who voted for them...
13
There is a mayor flaw in the law that just passed parliament. It does not prevent Boris Johnson from antagonizing
- Every
- Single
- Nation
in the EU before the summit.
He will probably start with Germany, accusing us of fulfilling Hitler's vision by means of the EU. He will claim that the Poles are in Britain to steal from the British people. He will revive the controversies about the Spanish and Portuguese stealing British fish. He will call the Bulgarians and Romanians "Gypsies" and accuse them of stealing British children.
And so on, and so forth. Nonsense after nonsense. All in one day, close to the vote of the EU leaders.
He WILL get one (just ONE is needed!) of the 27 nations that ALL have to approve an extension to the article 50 deadline to veto it, allowing him and the GB to crash out, and once crashed out the whole legal and political landscape changes, no UK law can fix or prevent that.
And he won't even have to go to jail for what he did, because the law didn't (couldn't!) prevent him from spitting poison into the eyes of all of Europe (in the U.S. his assault would be protected under the first amendment, the U.K. has similar laws and traditions). It's Trump 2.0, with a turbo AND a supercharger under the hood!
You read it here first...
4
Even Boris Churchill would understand the futility of that approach.
@Martin
And he HATES the Scots as well. When he was editor of a newspaper called The Spectator he published a poem that was extremely offensive to Scotland and the Scots.
1
Our American definition of a "conservatives" drastically narrows the historical meaning of "conservative" in the U.K. Since parliament first began calling itself the "representative of the people" 400 years ago, all parliaments have acted conservatively---to use the word as it is understood in the U.K. but not in America. For a British voter, all MPs are conservative in that they have a regard for the past and for the British constitution. In America, "conservatives" periodically ignore the past and flout its customary institutions.
"Liberal Democrats" may reject Boris Johnson, but they don't defy, in the name of conservatism, British law and government. That's what our radical Republicans do when they embrace the unconstitutional leadership of Daffy Donald. U.S. Republicans are zealous to preserve only their party. Does the same zeal inspire true "conservatives" in the U.K.?
Trish commented 1 hour ago
8
Trump’s behavior has disgraced his office and the country and has debased the national conversation. I am truly sorry for the poor people he has thrown paper towels at and allowed to die on our border and in our custody. However, nothing he has done or is likely to do compares to the economic chaos the UK will experience if it crashes out of the EU. Yes, eventually they’ll find a way back in a decade or so, but at a much higher cost than Johnson and company think...if they think.
8
May 2020 election be a widespread and united “No confidence!”in Trump! May the Trump corrupted Republican leaders and party be resoundingly defeated!!
21
British conservatives have the courage and decency to call out a crazy person and refuse to go along with him just because he is of their own party.
Republicans in the U.S. are feckless toadies who cower at the prospect of being "primaried" so they let Trump do any crazy thing he pleases with no criticism whatever, not even a murmur.
Lindsay Graham--we're looking at you. You who has no spine and no honor.
28
Interesting article except for the “comparable uprising” paragraph. Cotton is an immature warmonger who has been in Trump’s corner since day 1. Romney has already gone from “Donald Trump is a phony and fraud” to “I hope he gets another 4 years”. Grassley is silent on the trade war’s negative effects on Iowa farmers. And Alexander refuses to speak out about either the president or McConnell’s pursuit of division in the senate.
Unfortunately, the only really comparable Republicans who have the guts to speak out (Barbara Bush, John McCain) are dead.
15
They lack the INTEGRITY to speak out.
1
Boris "read the handwriting on the wall."For example, in March 1979 British Prime Minister James Callaghan was forced to resign after losing a vote of confidence in the House of Commons by a ...
1
@nrs
No matter who is PM, they will still have the same problem, and a no-deal Brexit will happen.
1
That’s because the GOP values power and money above all else, not America’s democracy or the Constitution they swore to uphold. They are treasonous and corrupt. The Brits have shown us what patriotism looks like.
20
GB may be a dysfunctional democracy, but it is still a democracy, protected by the independence of the MPs. The USA is no longer a democracy in any sense of the word. It is purely a fascist oligarchy, rapidly descending into a fascist dictatorship. America can thank its radical destroyers, the republican party, for this descent into abuse of power, for the destruction of the middle class, and the reign of Russia's proxy tsar trumpolini.
17
@WR Trump won a free and fair election and is actually acting on election promises. Apart from personal style I am amazed at the hatred from some. TDS is still pulsing in the Democrat veins it seems.
Democrats have had years to understand why they lost the election but are still in denial. They lost because they no longer represent American working people (of all stripes), instead all their political effort is focussed on the virtue signalling culture only popular in the inner parts of the big coastal cities like New York, LA and San Francisco. They win those states but ignore most of America. To win a national election they need to change but are refusing to do so, instead calling the US undemocratic, fascist? Read some books to learn what fascism was in Europe in the 1930s1940s. People who lived it will be shaking their head in disgust at the often used term today.
2
@Silence
If you ACTUALLY believe Trump "won" a "free and fair election" I have this bridge...
1
The Brit. Lawmakers are better human beings. They are not as coward, corrupt, cruel and greedy as US lawmakers. It is not loyally to Trump but it is fear and greed.
11
@ASHRAF CHOWDHURY, this is just not true. British lawmakers are not, on the whole, better human beings than American lawmakers. They're not more honorable, less greedy, or more self-sacrificial. What they are is institutionally less beholden to an individual than voters in America are. This is because the British parliamentary system privileges parties far above the individual executive (who is simply a party leader, and who never appears on a ballot for the prime ministerial position), while the American system privileges the executive far above the party apparatus. Trump was not an obvious Republican, but as I wrote below the party rides the President's coattails in an American election, and Congressmen were elected or reelected on the back of Donald Trump's popularity in 2016 (and they know it). Nobody was elected on the back of Boris, who ascended to party leadership in the normal British way of things: without a popular election. Nobody in his party is politically beholden to him. And while many will lose their seats over being ejected from the Conservative Party in Britain, the systematic differences are the reason the Brits can find it in themselves to be "less coward." The system makes them so. In America, the President essentially always has an electoral mandate; in Britain, the Prime Minister very frequently does not.
6
The Devil removes Republican Spines and Souls. As a signing bonus.
Seriously.
12
It’s the likes of McConnell, Lindsay Graham, Jim Jordan, and Devin Nunes, pseodopatriots that prop up our authoritarian-in-chief. Their day of reckoning can’t come soon enough.
13
One would hope that the Remainer Tories example with be a positive influence on Republicans in our Congress. Of course that is a pipe dream, but hope springs eternal, the glass is half full.
3
Would seem that B.Johnson's supporters have more sense and
fortitude than the fools supporting trump here in the US.
5
What is truly shocking about the Republicans who have sold their souls to Trump is how cheap their price was. They are, of course, getting what they want—making the rich richer and the poor poorer. But they have shown themselves willing to do anything to promote this horrific agenda.
The difference between Brexit and the situation here is that everyone will be worse off if there is no deal, not just the poor. What I can’t understand is why Johnson has any supporters at all. There has to be a more sinister agenda that I can’t yet see.
9
You’re being exceedingly lenient with the GOP. They do not just tolerate the squatter in the White House, or keep silent, whether from fear or self-interest. They openly support him and facilitate his agenda. They enable the deleterious effects of this corrupt and amoral administration and actively advocate for all its policies and goals. They celebrate its so-called achievements and have been known to gloat at the ills they are perpetrating, which will have long lasting effects and likely impact generations to come as well as the rest of the world.
Please don’t be part of the problem...
13
There is the singular problem with the United States now: There's no balance of power because the party members will allow and support any behavior, agenda and rule or law-breaking. It was different in the time of Nixon, that's why he was removed. Good for the UK, at least one western democracy knows how to put a check on a reckless, feckless leader.
10
Hate to say it, but the difference is that Trump has a base of rabid, dedicated fans and the Republican politicians know it. They are afraid of them and their wrath, so they happily or begrudgingly pay homage to Trump. This will not change. In Trump's party it's my way or the highway.
5
Don’t forget all those guns his base has available to take out t’s enemies.
1
"Don’t forget all those guns his base has available to take out t’s enemies"...
and have WILLINGLY volunteered to do, as seen in various groups and posts on social media.
Republicans used to be the party of fiscal restraint, devolution of power to state governments, aggressive foreign policy (especially against violent dictators), and the expansion and protection of American interests abroad.
Now, they are a party of fiscal profligacy, authoritarian centralisation, flaccid foreign policy, cosying up to dictators, and the retreat from international leadership.
It is clear they have no principles at all any more, and would (and have) support the devil himself if it kept their party in power.
Sad.
8
@Dr.OfNothing -- "Republicans used to be the party of fiscal restraint, devolution of power to state governments"
Only when they were out of power. In power, they've always passed out money to themselves to break the budget, and they've always tried to use Federal power to over ride states.
6
Schadenfreude = happiness at the misfortune of others.... Living in the US and seeing the UK version of Trump struggle gives me just enough schadenfreude to get through one more day of the Trump presidency. Is that wrong?
6
I hate to admit it, but it would seem that the average Brit can wake up and realize a problem that needs a change in attitude and behavior a lot faster than a number U.S. citizens. Ah, the power of masterful advertisement. The manipulation of non-critical thinking people here by clever, selfish people with money is a major factor to which maybe the Brits have more resistance.
6
@akhenaten2
If only that were the case, we would not be in the situation we are in. Johnson's advisor/handler was the guy who mobilised people via social media, right-wing papers and briefings to get Brexit through. But it's not really bout Brexit, it's about a vision to create a European tax haven where high earners from all over world can stash their cash and the rest of us can serve them.
3
It's easy to call the horrifying large number of Republican Senators and Congessmen who adhere to Trump and Trumpism "cowards." Yet, they are not cowards; au contraire, they faithfully echo the views of a majority of their constituents. Thus does the democratic process faithfully mirror constituents' views.
What this in turn says about their constituents' views is almost too awful to contemplate, but contemplate it we must.
Then we can contemplate something else, to wit, moving to an ice flow off the Svalbard coast.
1
What goes around comes around.
Commentators, whose ancestors fled the UK because they didn't like the Government there, now decide it's preferable to the one created here.
,
2
We could only hope that Republicans would show same courage as their British counterparts. We all need to never forget that Trump could never have become the evil force if Republicans had not been enthusiastic enablers and served as his acolytes. Mitch McConnell is every bit as evil as Trump. Only difference is that he's smarter than Trump and therefore more dangerous. We see Mitch as not as bad only because he does not have Trump's potty mouth and is more discreet in his commentary.
5
@Rolfneu
Speak for yourself. I view him as a domestic terrorist who needs to be taken down, locked up, or executed as a traitor to the United States as soon as possible.
Perhaps the Tories see that country is more important than party; or pehaps they just have spines.
6
Who would profit from Brexit?
Big developments are always complex, and that complexity includes both winners and losers.
Big political decisions do not go against the money interests of everyone. Somebody is expecting a payoff, somebody is supporting this.
British politics today seems determined to hide that ball.
However, it seems that Brexit would weaken the pound, and a wide array of interests benefit from weaker currency. It helps tourism and exports. It helps things that are pulled along by that. It attracts foreign money, which finds things cheaper to buy than they were before. It increases the value in pounds of things owned overseas and valued by rising currency.
Of course it hurts imports. It hurts Britain's own new investments to overseas, and old investment in Britain made with more expensive pounds.
As for banking, a huge British interest, The City, it makes its money from moving money. As values shift, it moves money in different ways, and moves money that otherwise would not have moved. It will profit, just differently.
As for the British worker, more jobs will be hiring at home, but those will pay in currency that buys less of anything from abroad.
Winners and losers. I'd like to track their influence on politicians now shifting about.
I submit there is a simmering revolt among Republicans, but it is among the rank and file, not the incumbents in Congress. As we saw in the 2018 elections, suburban Republicans, especially, are revolting. The difference with Britains’s Conservative party is due to many historical and institutional reasons, not least the huge amounts of money required to run for Congress. How that simmering revolt will play out in the contest for the Electoral College, in three or four battleground states, is the big unknown of the 2020 elections.
5
It appears that a no-deal will be avoided before a new election, but then what? As it happens, polling for the election shows the Conservative party at 35% and the Brexit Party at 13%. In contrast Labor and the Liberals have less than 20% each. Because the British system is winner-takes-all-ish, there is a good chance that the pro-Brexiters will enjoy an election gain from Corbyn's unpopularity and a divided opposition, even though anti-no-deal has a popular advantage.
It might also be worth noting for all the comparisons between the UK and the US that the US has a formal constitution; the UK does not. The fact that political actors in the US operate under one common document written in plain language--one that can adapt through amendment with the full force of its original 1789 application--puts us in a very different status than the UK when it comes to "existential crises" of government or leadership. Our Constitution offers guidance in such scenarios dating all the way back to Jackson v Quincy Adams.
The UK has depended on a balance of good will, tradition, statecraft and a Monarchy that had to be redefined after a bloody civil war and Protectorship; it is a balance that may have run its test of time. Perhaps the most detrimental act in the last three years of UK political struggle is Johnson's appointment as Prime Minister through what has to be acknowledged as one of the most non-representative methods ever used to select a leader in a functioning democracy.
Beyond the ontological contradiction in that process, it also leaves Johnson with no true political base, as this article notes, among the at-large population, stripping him of the gravitas that Trump can wield in the US whether or not one likes his policies.
The UK is in serious trouble. At this rate, how long before Scotland, Northern Ireland, and even Wales determine that they may fare better apart from a United Kingdom with England?
2
@Gui
Scotland is already working on their second attempt at independence. In 2014 they had a referendum that was gaining momentum. However, England created a group, first called Better Together, later renamed No Thanks, that used putting fear into pensioners and business owners into voting No. One of those fears was that the ONLY way Scotland would remain in the EU was to vote against independence. Ironic.
The UK is lucky, and have Conservative members of Parliament who are British patriots. Men and women who put country over party.
Sadly, in the US, there are no Republican members of Congress who are American patriots. They are all owned by special interests, who put money over country.
4
"The British parliamentary system is very unlike the American congressional system, reports the New York Times." Sure, Johnson's party elite are not as "loyal" as Trump's party elite. Yet Johnson's loyalists - the conservative voters - in fact really like him. Conservative MPs are at war against their own leader in a way that simply can't happen in America.
Here, the party apparatus that picks a Presidential candidate (primaries, caucuses) is the same apparatus that picks, backs, and funds Senatorial and Congressional candidates. When a President wins, the party rides his coattails, and thus must stomach a popular candidate. But in Britain, when a PARTY wins, the PM rides its coattails. British voters vote for party and not person: there will be no option for somebody living in Somerset, York, or Glasgow to EVER vote for - or against - Boris Johnson, even in a general election, because he is not their MP. If the Conservatives win the most seats in Parliament, they (almost always) get to seat their leader as Prime Minister. But that leader is NEVER chosen by general election; (s)he is chosen by the Tory faithful. I don't like Boris, but understand that this is the Conservative electorate (who back him) against their own MPs (who largely don't). Sure, those MPs are "standing up to him." But they had little to do with him becoming leader, and they owe him nothing. This is an institutional difference, not a difference in personal honor between American and British legislators.
1
@Sally
Before the membership vote, the party MPs vote for two candidates who the membership then choose between.
Could it be that American legislators are less honorable and greedier and have lost sight of the fact that country comes first ? It is a sad situation when the voters are misled so easily , prey to those who would subvert and dismantle our way of governing . Mitch McConnell being the prime example , no interest there , only dollar signs , whose father-in-law contributed vast amounts to his campaign to get him in power .
2
The British actually have a representative government. During debates in the House of Commons the people's representatives are actually in attendance. The room is full of people. In the USA when a congressman speaks before the House or Senate more often than not he is speaking to an empty chamber. His words are entered into the record which no one reads.
5
What we've learned is the parliamentary system works.
The US congressional representative for some pseudo democracy does not.
3
Parliament's House of Commons also rebelled against war on Syria, when that was building during the Obama Administration.
That was so shocking that it inspired Obama to seek Congressional approval, and it inspired Congress to refuse it. Hence, no war on Syria that time.
Of course, the war hawks found their way to get us into war in Syria, but not that time.
Perhaps the House of Commons can again inspire Washington.
Nice piece of propaganda -- "In London, rebels in the Conservative Party staged a dramatic insurrection in the past week against Prime Minister Boris Johnson, blocking his plan to withdraw Britain from the European Union even without a deal." -- but the reality is Brussels is in league with those in the Parliament who want to remain and both will do whatever they can to keep the current monstrous EU fraud happening.
For Brussels punishing England is of utmost importance, for it is a means of reminding other members what they will face if they decide one day to drop out, specifically Italy.
Boris knows, given that reality, the only way to beat the Mandarin elites in both England and Brussels is to simply head to the "exit" as fast as possible -- make the break and be done with it.
Here’s a simple way to tell if you’re losing it: when things don’t go your way, ask if you’re developing a propensity for explaining the loss with some kind of grand conspiracy. And if the conspiracies keep getting bigger and more elaborate with each new loss, well, you can pretty much tell that you’re getting into serious deep water.
2
@Alice's Restaurant
The EU has negotiated in good faith with every leader that the Tory Party has sent to them They sat down with PM May and came to an agreement. Parliament, not the EU,rejected it. The Tory party has been in charge of this mess from the start, they botched it, are still botching it, and of course you place the blame on, let's wait, the EU. This is a divorce. You seem to imply that unless the EU bows down to the No deal crowd and gives them everything they want that it is the EU is to blame.You are like a spouse that that demands a divorce but is shocked when the other half of the marriage denies them conjugal visits and calls them unreasonable when they do.
2
@Robert
Thanks for the hobgoblin insight. Read Marcuse and Gramsci yet? If so, please add Djilas and Milosz so you'll have a better understanding of what's going on.
"Boris Johnson Finds His Party Loyalists Aren’t as Loyal as Trump’s"
That's because British MP's have more integrity, courage, and intelligence than Republican members of congress.
1
Trump doesn't really have "party loyalists" because Trump's only agenda is to promote and reward Trump. Trump is like the substitute teacher who never looks at the lesson plan and the students know it so dictate their own. He relies on very conservative enablers whose agenda Trump never interfers with. That is how it is perceived that Trump's party is "loyal" to him. As long as Trump's polling data show his core supporters go along with what his enablers do, he doesn't care as long as they also promote and reward Trump. This is not governance. This is not democracy. The United States is treading water til we get a real president. And it's why what Boris Johnson is dealing with in Parliament has no tie in to Trump.
1
Brexit will most certainly hurt rhe UK. And Parliement is right in fighting Brexit.
And it is also true that Britons cannot make up their mind
But neither the EU, or rather its members, as to the direction the EU should take.
They are in fact split between those who want to follow the intial aim of the Union, a closer relationship, meaning a federal state, and those who only want customs facilities
( like the UK)
In addition the political spectrum varies in time, left, right, and so important decisions are not made, while petty reglementations are imposed on europeans;
So a number of countries, and now the UK, crticize this disfunctional"system" and some citizens are simpy so exasperated by "Brussels", that they wish out, even if it may become a kind of death wish
If our lame Congress actually had the will to seriously tackle campaign finance reform, they too could actually live the principles of their constituents and conscience.
1
@JK -- We can't expect Congress to eliminate the way its members keep their seats.
Reform of that will need to come from outside, a reform of Congress, not by Congress.
Enough Tories revolted in defense of their government. All Republicans actively work to undermine their government.
There is your difference.
Wish the Republican politicians would learn a thing or two from the Brits about country before party.
The Brits have taken an important historical step by standing up to yet another wannabe dictator - Boris Johnson. In the USA, Moscow Mitch McConnell and his GOP henchmen who placed Trump in office are doing everything possible to prevent any attempts to prosecute Trump for obstruction of justice or even to lessen the impact of constant Trumpian chaos born of ignorance.
Republicans ignore the US Constitution in order to safeguard Trump. However, many Conservatives in Britain have demonstrated that they place their country and the tradition of their parliamentary rule ahead of their personal politics.
The Republicans in Congress demonstrate daily that they place greed and the thirst for power above any patriotic considerations. The Brexit vote and the Trump election were both tragic political events. The Brits seem to have found ways to limit the spread of the disaster. Meanwhile, in the US, Trump goes unchecked.
3
In England, we are told, there's nothing like Fox News dominating the conservative media and filling conservative minds. They are freer thinkers in England; in America Republicans are told what to think.
1
Britain was fine before the EU. They’ll be fine after they leave. The rest is drama.
I think our legislators’ indebtedness to their donors contributes as much to their fecklessness as their fear of Trump. In fact, Trump policies and donor/lobbyist policies are pretty much the same. Our cowardly leaders, on both sides of the aisle, think donor first, party second. The good of the people is way down the priority list.
1
The English have had a longer experience with democracy than the US. They’ve become adept at bringing in the right leadership at the right time and knowing when to move them out (Churchill is a good example). This is the first time in recent history they’ve hit a really hard wall where none of the options are good.
But I have total confidence they’ll weather this crisis and get back to normal. I wish I could say I was just as confident that the US can do the same with our own dilemma.
21
American legislators, cabinet officials, and other politicians should see a lesson in the actions of the U.K. Parliament.
The country comes first.
The citizens come first.
The party and its leader are much lower on the list.
43
@Steve Ell
Good luck convincing republicans, and even some democrats, of this logical understanding of their true role when they are elected to office.
From London: Oh, how I wish GOP Senators would behave with as much principle as the Conservative MPs, who will most likely give up their seats and Parliamentary careers in support of their principles.
Those booted out of the Conservative party include two former Chancellors, Winston Churchill's grandson, the longest serving member of the House and other long-serving, loyal Conservatives.
57
Whatever Republicans are today, the "Party of Lincoln" they are not.
66
@Bradley Bleck
Certainly not, since in the 1800s the Republicans were the liberals of their day and the Democrats were the conservatives.
But today Republicans aren't even the "Party of Reagan."
They are the Party of Trump.
1
I should have said, the current GOP was NEVER the party of Lincoln, which was the progressive party of its time.
They haven't been "the party of Lincoln" since, well, Lincoln. Lincoln's Republicans were the progressives of their time; the Democrats were the conservatives. Completely different animals, in spite of what contemporary Republicans would have you believe.
This article is demonstrates one more "nail in the coffin" of the American political system. At least in Britain party loyalty does not extend to party insanity as with the Republican party in the U.S. At a minimum, at some point all party members must act in the best interest of the country.
We have only one party in the U.S.- the Democratic Party. The Republican party is not a governing party. Not only are they unable to govern but their members are cowards willing to sacrifice all personal integrity and responsibility to their incompetent, corrupted leader. What a tragedy.
58
Well I don’t want your Democratic Party.
You can take your Uber left wing socialist programs and take them elsewhere. Dems are anti-capitalist, pro-unrestrained immigration, anti-military and obsequious globalists.
And if you think what the PM’s are doing in Britain to oppose Johnson is to put country above politics, you’re wrong. It’s all about self interests and what those PM’s gain in trying to Remain under the foot of the E.U.
Go Brexit.
Go Trump.
The courageous British Conservatives that put their country before ideology at risk of losing their political careers, put American Conservative/Republicans to shame for their cowardice of not doing the same...
Every Republican who stood up to Trump only did so after they announced they were retiring. That's not courage that's expediency. They did not retire or resign to put country before Ideology.
44
Those 21 who defied the government are generally on the left of the Tory party and shouldn't really be called conservatives. They would be better suited to the Liberal Democrats. Same goes for Amber Rudd.
2
@Markus Wallett
Just another point about the vaunted conservative principles of one of the heroes of the no deal Brexit crowd. Jacob Rees Mogg has been a vocal critic of abortion rights, even in the case of rape, a very, very conservative value, correct. Yet the company he helped start and still keeps his interest and profits from, has made a tidy profit from selling, you guessed it, morning after abortion pills. One would think that a man of principle, a true conservative, would divest himself from this company, or even better use his influence to stop it. But when there is a buck to be made values can be chucked out the window, right mate?
2
@Markus Wallett
Your definition of "[real] conservatives" drastically narrows the historical meaning of "conservative." Since parliament first began calling itself the "representative of the people" 400 years ago, all parliaments have acted conservatively---to use the word as it is understood in the U.K. but not in America. For a British voter, all MPs are conservative in that they have a regard for the past and for the British constitution. In America, "conservatives" periodically ignore the past and flout its customary institutions. Your "Liberal Democrats" may reject Boris Johnson, but they don't defy, in the name of conservatism, British law and government, the way our radical Republicans do when they embrace the unconstitutional leadership of Daffy Donald. Our Republicans are zealous to preserve only their party. Does the same zeal govern true "conservatives" in the U.K.?
@Markus Wallett
So the Conservative Party has no room for moderate "One Nation" tories? Not such a broad church then?
The current Johnson administration has no time for the poor or the 48 per cent who voted to remain in the EU. Johnson is just an egotist who has no moral core. The utterances about "The will of the people" and there being a mandate for a no deal Brexit are not based on fact but on convenience and dogma. There is a positive side to this, if the Tories are weakened by all this, then I'm a happy man. The flip side to my joy is the terrifying thought of Brexit.
2
For the first time, it is wonderful to see these conservatives who are looking after the greater good of people, so unusual in the world of right wing politicans who only support the rich. They know Brexit is no good for most people and a no deal Brexit is madness for the majority. We were disgusted with the remarks of Pence in Ireland, we have no time for him or Trump here, which was well demonstrated by the total lack of people out to greet them when they came.
40
@Trish Apparently the only time a conservative is a good conservative, is when they side with the left.
@Trish. As an American, I apologize for the loathsome “President” (and vice) we are responsible for bringing to the international stage....
2
@maire
No, it is when they look after the greater good of their people, it is widely accepted even by the Brexiteers that Brexit is going to hurt the economy and it will be particularly hard on the majority of people who are middle and low earners
I think the "Conservative Rebels" realized that Britain would be immediately and irreversibly harmed if they did not stop the no-deal Brexit.
Makes you wonder how we would react in a similar situation. It's almost like we're taking thousands of "paper cuts" rather than facing an immediate catastrophe in the U.S. Which is worse in the long run?
13
Real Americans would never accept being under the foot of a global governing body like the E.U. Never.
If you like what Britain is doing, by all means pick up your bags and move there.
@William VanDame
At least we no longer have to wonder how our current Repub officeholders would react to a childish attempt to modify an official NOAA graphic in order to mollify an imbecile incapable of admitting he was wrong.
1
Too bad Trump's loyalist weren't as patriotic as Boris's followers. Our Trump fanboys put Trump over Country, Trump over Constitution.
33
@GUANNA: Trump supporters remind me of an old time radio commercial (originally aired in the mid to late 30's, I believe, early 40's at the latest) in which the announcer said that we had one thing to be thankful for on the upcoming Thanksgiving: that we still salute the flag and not a shirt. Trump supporters may think they're saluting the flag when they fanboy/girl all over Trump, but I suspect many of them would dump the flag in the trash if Trump told them to do so.
‘For dispirited Republicans, though, this British revolution has become an object lesson in how a center-right party can stand up to a wayward leader.
The Conservative rebels “showed courage and principled concern about the impact of bad policy on the U.K. economy.”’
I’m trying not to laugh as I point out the problems with this potential call to action one by one:
– object lesson? Repubs ain’t interested in school or learnin’.
– center-right? Repubs have gone so far right that fascist describes them better.
– courage? Nope, not even a tiny bit.
– principled concern about the impact of bad policy on the economy? They have no principles and they have no concern about our country. Party over country; self over national interest.
Sadly, dispirited Republicans will remain so until the former party of Lincoln is gone from the face of the earth.
17
Turns out the greatest Democracy in the northern hemisphere is England after all. Funny that.
26
@Happy. It’s not over yet sadly! The far right are trying to force us out anyway - Johnson & Co are vowing to break the law!
@Happy. It’s a bittersweet fact......
Politicians in Britain and the US are elected by a very different
election system. That, not differences in human nature, accounts for the difference.
4
@Lars The fact that Boris Johnson is so very conspicuously smarter than Donald Trump is nevertheless very hard to miss.
Odd analysis. Of course things are different in the United Kingdom because Boris Johnson came into office solely because of Brexit. That will dominate British politics to the exclusion of everything else until it is dealt with. There's nothing remotely like it in American politics that Donald Trump has to deal with.
Brexit has certainly shown us that Parliament's vaunted reputation is overblown. Three times now Parliament's only solution to Brexit has been to delay for more time to dither. Boris Johnson's attempts to negotiate a deal have been undercut by people in Parliament caught up in their own importance who put principle over practicality.
One way or another, deal or no, the United Kingdom needs to finally leave the European Union and get on with life. Brexit doesn't mean much in practical terms, and those agonizing over leaving are making a minor issue major and leaving major issues unaddressed.
Get on with it.
7
I loved the bit about how, “Brexit doesn’t mean much in practical terms,” a wonderful silly bookend to claiming that the exits from TPP, Paris, the JCPOA, NAFTA and about sixteen other things are nothing, why no nothing, I say nothing like Brexit.
16
@John Smithson
"Brexit doesn't mean much in practical terms, and those agonizing over leaving are making a minor issue major and leaving major issues unaddressed. "
This was the big lie told by the Leave campaigners, including our current PM. It is the only way to rationalise leaving the EU, especially without any transition agreement.
13
@John Smithson. I wouldn’t be at all confident that “Brexit doesn’t mean much in practical terms”. We haven’t seen the outcome yet. It’s like stating, “we’ll get the best of climate change”......
Everything Trump does is seen as beneficial to business (low taxes, no regulations) but Brexit may simply be too costly for big business to allow.
5
@JR Trump’s trade war will not be seen as beneficial to anything until he or his successor ends it.
The distinct difference between the two is that the Brit pursue justice for their country rather than support the wrong leader with an objectionable agenda. Whereas Trump has his unadulterated support from GOP however unqualified and dangerous the president is, as long as they remain in power disregarding the benefit to this country.
11
It seems that the rebelling UK Tories are doing so in the greater interest of their country. The GOP in America has failed to show it is willing to put country before party as it bends before a nihilist wannabe dictator in the name of keeping their jobs and a future in lobbying.
20
This column completely misses, that in both instances, Britain and the United States have made self inflicted wounds based on racism and not understanding the disruption of new technology. The other similarity between the two nations is that the conservative elite in both countries HATE a significant part of their fellow countrymen and women. They HATE them, to the point where they are willing to damage the whole nation in order to harm those people. This is what makes the parallels between the two nations so striking.
12
Why are the technocrats who held sway almost everywhere a few years ago giving way to "extravagant buffoons" like Johnson, Trump, Putin, Modi, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Morrison, Duterte, Salvini, Erdogan, Orbán and a host of other ludicrous killer clowns to dominate nations that would once have laughed them off stage?
BREXIT is a wish and an outcome wanted by dictator Vladimir Putin in Moscow (Kremlin) Russian Federation. Even before the June 2016 referendum on the UK's EU membership took place, the former British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond suggested in a speech at the Chatham House think tank, "In fact, the only country who would like us to leave the European Union is Russia. That should tell us all we need to know."
A hard divorce or break-up will just isolate the UK in which the E.U. is losing the second largest economy in Europe, the United Kingdom. We are only interested in one thing: the conditions of divorce, without asking whether this break-up is avoidable. But I am convinced that it is a new European treaty that would allow the British to remain in the Europe of tomorrow perhaps with fewer but more readable skills.
There is a danger in policy-making giving way to criminals and irresponsible clowns.
A blatant example that is via EO presently in the U.S. where military planes stops for refuel in Ireland near an unused airport by a Trump golf course to refuel not for pentagon-set prices but for fuel market prices for thousands and thousands of dollars extra.
15
The GOP loyalists in the US are "loyal" to the extent that they have been both bought off by dark money donors, and the amount of Kompromat that was hacked from the RNC and their own accounts, but not released - and held by the "hackers" (read oligarchs such as Deripaska and their toady, Trump) for future extortion. No other good explanation exists. Look no further than Kentucky and the deal to both kill the sanctions on Deripaska's businesses and his new plant location in Kentucky all under McConnell's hands.
9
@David
Thanks David,
You might want to add that since their loyalty ends at the Bank door, that if the price was right, they would leave NATO also, contrary to Thomas Wright's assertion.
5
Thank God! Some people in Parliament are still interested in the common good.
10
Wouldn’t it be nice to live in a country with leaders that still put country over party?
23
It’s difficult to see how a mass insurrection in the Republican Party and Trump’s base would happen in this current political climate. The President preaches so much misinformation and has a major media network that is complicit with his lies, while 40 percent of the population get their only news from what he and his network says. Everything else is “fake news”!
7
The U.K. appear to have a Conservative party, the U.S. "conservatives" are more accurately "concierge service to oligarchs".
19
@Robert FL. Thank you for the truth of your statement, and the much needed laugh!
1
The obvious comparative take-away for those of us here in the US is that Republicans, and the Republican Party, consist in large part of those willing to subvert basic liberal democratic values, the historical foundation of our government, for some immediate political aims they otherwise failed to sell to the electorate.
I think of this as the "Mussolini Syndrome" wherein fascism was partly justified by "making trains run on time".
13
Thomas Wright, the director of the Center on the United States, “But Republicans are largely happy with the legislative items being sent to the Hill.”
Except for the 2017 tax cut, what items is Mr. Wright referring? Infrastructure? Health care? Immigration? Trade? Not one. Mr Wright would have been more forthcoming had he suggested Republicans are rejoicing the deluge of Executive orders or the host of judicial nominations much to their l!ing?
8
Since the Russia investigation was an easily seen through fabrication by the news media and the anti Trump crowd, the GOP found it easy to largely ignore it. Neo con bluster that has died away since Trump has largely accepted their geopolitical goals. Brexit was mostly a protest vote set against the notion that it could never pass. Johnson and his allies sold the preposterous idea that implementing Brexit was a piece of cake. Theresa May's failure and Johnson's stampeding over the cliff make it very possible that shockingly Labor leader Jeremy Corbin could become PM. In the US 2016 was a stupid outcome based on the ridicules notion that a 2.8 million vote win in the popular vote could be denied. In the US you have the Trump/McConnell cabal. McConnell is a hedgehog, he understands one thing power. Trump loses it and McConnell is nothing but an obstructionist outlier.
4
“To deliver Brexit like this is to create a poison pill which for 40 years will divide this country straight down the middle.” The trump party (formerly GOP) continues to deliver the same poisonous pill out of greed, fear and of the leader, and desperation to cling to power. Truly sad to see since collectively we are much better than that.
5
Mitch McConnell should have been impeached for nonfeasance when he refused to allow an interview or vote on Garland.
20
I guess Boris is dealing with Men and Trump is dealing with guys pretending to be Men. Maybe The Right can learn something from the guys across the pond about character.
8
It's not about loyalty. The Brits are just smarter.
10
@Jody McPhillips
"Brits are smarter".
Some undoubtedly are. Look how much Simon Cowell has milked the US.
I think some of the fire impelling British MP’s is related to the rapid response of the population to Boris’ attempt of what was viewed immediately and by many as a coup. In London at the time, I had actually walked to the Parliament that morning and it was a quiet morning there. But once people heard of Boris’ proposal to prorogue Parliament for nearly 5 weeks, followed rapidly by the Queen’s assent (she had no choice), the rage by ordinary people was swift and public, with huge crowds in front of the Parliament that same evening. Not only did crowds go to public places, but they tracked down and confronted their MP’s in person. Loudly. Right away!
If our country acted so swiftly and publicly, on a citizen level, we might look different right now too.
It seems to me, admittedly a foreigner here, that the groundswell from the grassroots, combined with doubts even among members of his own party, was unstoppable. Not that there’s unanimity in the population re Brexit. But there was immediate rage about Boris who had gone too far by a mile.
17
@TheraP The coup is actually by a rogue parliament that is trying to overturn the referendum result. There is no outrage by the people, if you look at the recent yougov polls, where Johnson is well ahead in the polls.
@Markus Wallett
The majority of MPs in parliament wish to see no damage to the country by reigning in the excesses of hard Brexiteers. The referendum was officially an advisory vote. The Leave campaign was built on lies regarding the economic benefits and fuelled anti immigrant prejudices. The EU was not the cause of the austerity that Britain was suffering from, the Tory government was. David Cameron thought a referendum could bolster his party against a rising support for Farage and his UKIP party. This simply opened Pandora's box. Just as Trump is willing to create an alternate dialogue with "Fake News". Farage admitted to misleading the voters after the Leave vote was secured. Here's an idea for a quiz show in Britain.....
Fact or Farage?
In other words, Boris Johnson finds that the political swamp in Britain is deeper and murkier than the one in Washington.
Johnson also finds that Trump is better at draining the swamp as the swamp rats are leaving the party in droves.
1
@Bhaskar Except that Trump hasn't drained the swamp. He's just filled it bigger and greedier swamp critters. The UK politicians are putting country over party. Something Republicans seem to be incapable of doing, especially Trump who enriches himself as taxpayer expense.
17
You my friend are an excellent example of Trumps con running smoothly. Trump is NOT "draining the swamp" as you falsely proclaim. Trump has hired more lobbyists, by far then any other previous administrations. Maybe if you say "draining the swamp" over and over in your mind it will come true for you? Please don't ever vote again until you educate yourself of what is actually happening in America.
21
@Bhaskar
No. Boris is discovering that some members of his party put the health of the country ahead of their own, personal comfort. Those members have something called "integrity". You can look it up.
16
Does money buy politicians in the UK to the same extent it does in the United States? Highly doubt it.
28
@Mikki
Take a look, it's as much a problem there as it is here.
https://www.transparency.org.uk/publications/take-back-control/
"The paper argues that loopholes and weaknesses in the political donations system can enable access to power gained through making large donations to political parties, politicians and their campaigns. This can also lead to “political capture” by private interests in which decisions are made for the good of those making large donations, rather than society as a whole."
4
@Mikki
I once watched an MP walk out of Parliament, hop on his bicycle and casually ride off; his counterpart in the US Congress would have been swarmed by lobbyists (many of them former staffers, sons and daughters of House members, etc) before he/she reached the sidewalk...
I’ve always felt the the GOP has only 1 prime directive: the ever greater concentration of wealth and power on behalf of the wealthy and powerful.
If we assume that Big$Money controls the GOP , then Trumps trillion dollar tax cut for the rich gave he card Blanche to do whatever he wants. He can sing and dance and make fools of himself, his admin & his country and they don’t care.
Keep in mind that Big$Money is nothing more than power & money junkies, and as long as their addiction gets a fix, they don’t care.
If we assume that the Conservative (Tory) party in the U.K. Is the British version of the same, then we can understand the division and rebellion that is taking place there.
London is a major center of global capital. Big banks are already fleeing London for Dublin, Amsterdam and Brussels. The UK is hemorrhaging money left right and center already without Brexit in place.
The UK auto manufacturing sector has been reinforced by Japanese manufacturers who like it for its combination of English language and easy access to the huge market that is the Continent of Europ. They and even indigenous companies are pulling out.
Brexit is a ridiculous display of self mutilation and Big$Money is pulling out. The Tories are losing their retainees (i.e. their client base). They’ll left with a greatly reduced client base and Putin, even w/ his deep pockets is a poor substitute who won’t last long after he’s destroyed the UK.
So yeah, I get what’s happening their.
21
Louis XIV may have declared “L’etat, c’est moi!” and, in the heady days of absolute monarchism, he was absolutely correct. However, in modernity, absolutism has found another outlet and that is party agenda that is far removed from empowering any individual with god like authority. Trump and Johnson might wish to emulate autocrats of yore, but, in reality, they are simply figureheads, ultimately fall guys, for those who identify them as in their ageing callowness, as potential totems, initiate, groom, and present them, once indoctrinated as visionaries when they’re actually false idols. George W. Bush was a prime example: selected for his malleability by the likes of Rove and Cheney, he was anointed and pushed out in a political sea to further Republican agenda. As a result, he became a pariah and a criminal, if protected for his loyalty, while Rove and Cheney remained insulated and the Republican Party took its lumps ready to make a comeback under Trump. All part of the plan.
The Conservative Party in Britain is no less ideological than its transatlantic twin, but the reason it is being humiliated is that, for now, it still answers to Europe whereas the Republicans answer to no one except, perhaps, voters. Johnson is often compared to Trump, but that is simply an accident of timing. He is more akin with Dubya. Selected for that same vulnerable malleability, even for stupidity, he was parachuted in to create a class riven dystopia. Britain is yet to be fooled.
7
What Britain’s Conservative Party lacks is a hard-core evangelical wing like that of the Republican Party driving a culture war-prepping theocratic mission to eliminate the First Amendment and with it America’s ascendant secular society. Without the messianic zeal and sense of “god calling” of a dominating religious wing that cares more about the cultural mission of Brexit than the money, it’s easy to see why Tories would rather bail than go down with Johnson’s ship. A hard Brexit will cost Britain catastrophic sums of money. Who cares what racist working-class white Englishmen want when big money is about to be lost?
It seems we in America still can’t even face the fact that most Republicans in Congress are either evangelicals or from states and districts controlled by them. We keep missing the theocratic forest forming around us for the Republican trees. Trump, a simple political mercenary who would have remained a Democrat if the party embraced him, is the first president to totally cave to every single demand of the religious right. The Republican Party may have once been primarily the party of the wealthy but it is now a hard right religious party. Religion drives passion, loyalty, and political tribalism far more potently and effectively than the desire to make or save money.
In order to have a Republican Party that stands up for democratic principles in the way Tories have, religion must be purged from it and the political sphere. Until then, nothing here changes.
26
@left coast finch
You are 100% correct. The Evangelical Right fully intends to rule. They believe that God has called Trump not merely to be President but to become King. They are a Clear and Present Danger to the Republic.
8
The unfortunate truth is that in Britain, Conservatives are more loyal to Britain and the ideas of Conservatism they represent. In America, Elected Conservatives are loyal an Authoritanian leader and have no loyalty whatsoever to an agenda that promotes American interests from a Conservative world view.
19
It seems to me that Britain’s conservatives retain at least a shred of conservatism. In the US, actual conservatives died out with the likes of Bob Dole. Now, the GOP is the party of the radical right and white nationalism.
14
Country before party.
Apparently British Conservatives are more patriotic than American Republicans.
17
The British conservative party is more interested in democracy and the power of the Parliament (legislative branch) than the ones in the United States, Good for the Brits,. Horrible for the U.S.
10
UK Tories don’t have a Senate with Mitch McConnell.
12
Not only are the tories able to go against their leader, they have been known to dump them unceremoniously into heaps of humiliation. Remember Thatcher, goddess of privatization and tory ideals one day and tearfully gone and obsolete the next.
7
GOP Congresspeople seem to have forgotten they took an oath of loyalty to the Constitution.
14
@Nealf The GOP treat the Constitution like they do the Bible. They espouse whatever suits their needs in the moment, then simply claim it is supported by the [bible / constitution]. Most Americans are no more constitutional scholars than they are biblical scholars.
4
What’s that say about Mitch McConnell’s morals?
6
@Prudence Spencer Mitch Mc Connell has no morals. He is interested in keeping his job---at any cost. Nothing else. I am repulsed by him.
Ethics,Character and Integrity matter!
In Great Britain.
Here, not so much.
Looking at you Pat Toomey....
4
Trump has no loyalists. Instead, he has gutless, self absorbed GOPers like himself who have no love of this country or democracy. They will do anything for money.
15
There once was a young lady from Niger
Who smiled as she rode on a tiger
They returned from the ride with the lady inside
And the smile on the face of the tiger
We can all smile as the Republican Party eats itself.
11
No, the Brits can read and think and the people who elected them live on this planet!
5
Another difference between the UK and the US is that the UK has more than two viable political parties. The referendum itself came about partly because the Tories were losing votes to Nigel Farage's UK Independence Party. After the referendum Farage created the Brexit party, which is continuing to take votes from the Tories.
The result of having multiple parties can be messy and sometimes results in coalition governments. But it does make for clearer distinctions. In the UK model Trump would have created his own party, instead of hijacking the Republican party and the left wing of the Democratic party would be the Socialist party.
4
@PJ: I would think that Labour would be the closest equivalent to the left wing of the Democrats.
@retnavybrat
Labour is a socialist party. It drifted to the right for a while but Jeremy Corbyn could give Bernie Sanders a run for his money. I'm sure if the Democratic left formed a separate party it would choose a more marketable name. "Socialist" would be the kiss of death in the US, which is overall to the right of the UK on the spectrum. Which is why the GOP is trying to label the Democratic party as a whole as socialist.
The members of the British Conservative party have the courage to stand up to the devolution that Boris Johnson's reign threatened. They had the values and priorities that allowed them to follow their conscience and do the right thing and rein in their leader. Even at the cost of their political future.
This is in contrast to the Republican party in this country does not have that courage, and have given up their values and priorities. The Republican party in this country are beholden to an unstable president, who they fear if angered will initiate a twitter storm and have that elected politician targeted by the far right media outlets. Afraid to raise the angst of the all powerful NRA. Their only efforts, seeming to be when trying to win the endorsements of lobbyists and Super PACs who they hope will contribute to their political campaigns.
The current revolution of the British Conservative party members against an unstable leader of their party should serve as an example to the conservative republicans in this country to live up to their responsibilities as the people's representatives.
6
They were never Johnson Loyalists. What they 'were' is what they continue to be, Remainers unwilling to adhere to the will of the voters. Delay is all they achieve. Just like all the Left has achieved here is to delay the moment when they accept they actually have lost, because of their candidates and their policies, and until they change both they will continue to lose. You can delay that moment, and Brexit, as long as you wish. Doesn't change the fundamental truths one bit.
1
This is systemic, the party chooses political leaders there, here we don't. I’m not sure it goes much beyond that.
"He lost four key votes in a row and faces the specter of having to do something he vowed he would never do: ask Brussels for an extension of the date when Britain will leave the European Union."
Johnson has absolutely no legal requirement to ask for an extension of the deadline. Parliament is sovereign in Britain. Parliament cannot sue its own PM, which is like suing itself (or the Queen). Only Parliament decides who is right when one faction says X is constitutional and another faction says X is unconstitutional. They have a constitutional solution already, which they have declined: a no-confidence vote, or else to call an election.
The courts have no power, as they do in the USA, because Parliament is supreme. The notion of asking courts to assert power over Parliament in this way is laughable.
The mere idea that members of Parliament would ask the courts to determine whether a negotiated and ratified treaty obligation (the Article 50 notification) can be modified by last week's "no-deal Act" is preposterous.
1
The Republicans are every bit as loyal as the Tories. The difference is that the Tories are loyal to their country while the Republicans are loyal to themselves and, because it serves their self-interests, Trump.
7
It’s never too late for someone to do the right thing. The backbone of the GOP is so soft I would be astounded if all of a sudden they got woke. Where do they go after Trump?
3
I spent my teen-aged years in the North of England and the Midlands. Being interested in politics even from that age, I had always felt that the British Conservatives are an entirely different breed as compared to our home grown Republicans. As a 58 year old, I believe in the truth of that proposition more than ever.
3
One of the key differences is that republicans swear allegiance to their men, not to their country. This has been true since Saint Reagan.
6
It's attributable at least in part to the difference between the two forms of government. Johnson works for the Queen. Even if true only in theory, it's a check on his power and presumption. The Founders made a big mistake combining head of government and head of state in one person, because it gives too much power to the president and enables him to dominate his party.
2
Loyalty to corruption seems to be the combination that the current administration embraces. The saddest part is the steady "base" of support Trump still receives.
We do have a current House of Representatives that may restore the two most essential things that gives hope to our Democracy: the rule of law and the power of the vote.
Otherwise, like climate change, it is here to stay and we are going to have to learn how to adapt. California, where I live, is fortunate enough to be in a position to push states rights as far as it goes to distance ourselves from the lunatic in the oval office.
4
@Daniel
California where you have Typhus outbreaks? That is not my definition of fortunate but to each his own.
As candidate Trump himself said in May 2016, “this is called the Republican Party, it's not called the Conservative Party.” Given its willingness to cut taxes and raise spending by borrowing trillions of dollars, the GOP has lost any pretext of a principled governing philosophy. The only objective now is power, naked, unrestricted power.
7
Britain's Conservatives are not necessarily the Party of Brexit. Parliament, as opposed to our newer Congress, was multi-party, rather than have two (with few "independents.")
Sadly, Britain did NOT follow the money to the Brexiteers.
Putin played a long game of avenging the "death" of his "true parent," the Soviet Union, and never forgot what it was like to be left behind--impotently--in East Germany's KGB office when the Wall fell in 1992. He and his oligarchs wanted revenge in the form of destroying the Western Alliance which outlasted the Soviet Union and East Bloc, and do it from within. They went shopping to find traitors to do this.
Trump would sell anything and anyone to have his name put on it and get media coverage. He was an ideal choice, and our "open" society was prime for infiltration of social media.
Marine Le Pen made the mistake of going to Moscow to thank Putin for his input of money into the Front National. The French remember their traitors and collaborators of the Occupation, and Le Pen showed herself to be of that ilk and lost.
The British Conservatives are realizing that, just perhaps, Boris Johnson and Brexit had been "shopped" as well.
We should only be as lucky: our Republican Party is the Party of Trump...and Putin. Those Senators and Congresspeople who are now "dropping like flies" are taking their pensions belong to a party gone permanently rogue.
6
The article notes that Trumps offenses/tantrums are not as grave as Johnson’s no deal Brexit. I suggest what we have in Trump is a “death by a thousand cuts,” a slow moving disaster (noting a few):
- Tax cuts threaten America’s future with spectacular deficits.
- Environmental degradation.
- Election tampering.
- Abandoning basic decency in favor of gratuitous cruelty.
- Alienating allies and fully embracing despots.
The Republican Party must take a stand for our nation.
4
Trump had time to consolidate his hold over the GOP. His actions have gotten steadily worse as he’s gotten more powerful. Johnson’s mistake was to jump in and create a ruckus before he consolidated his hold on power
4
As a college student at the University of Texas at Austin, I had a favorite political science instructor who used to say, "If you want to see what America will do in 10 years look at Britain." In the years since graduation in 1976, I have had ample time to test that premise. It is absolutely true, but it has changed a little. Only times have changed altering the premise a little. Today if you want to see what America will do in 1 year look at Britain.
13
Doesn't this difference between UK and the US politics illustrate superbly the limitation of living by a single value -- in this instance loyalty -- rather than attempting to make such additions of another value, such as conversational presence, that leads, eventually (! phew!) to a sustainable and sustaining balance?
3
@Angus Cunningham
No. Because the dissenters did not actually put forth a plan.
The House of Lords ruling that they can't have a no-Brexit deal to leave the EU is meaningless.
The fact remains that unless they successfully vote to withdraw Article 50, a no-deal Brexit is what is going to happen if nothing changes by the end of October. There is no other possibility.
The dissenters don't want to take a stand. They don't want an election and they don't want to vote on withdrawing Article 50.
2
@Viv
The dissenters worked across the aisle. In this Age of Division (or Age of Anxiety, if you'd prefer, Viv) working across the aisles without either 'caving' or insisting/threatening is quite a feat -- especially as Mark Landler tells us that "American Republicans vote against their party far more regularly than British Conservatives". Is that still true?
Donald Trump's complicit enablers and minions are not "loyal" but "spineless." Oh, and greedy and corrupt.
228
@Sunspot
I couldn’t of said it better. So true but so sad. The big difference is, the politicians over in the UK care more about their country. Our politicians care only about themselves in their pocketbooks
10
@Sunspot
You called it right, Sunspot. I would add parasitic as well: Trump, his enablers, and minions feed off their host (hard-working Americans), and benefit by deriving wealth at the expense of said hard-working Americans. Wealth they - Trump et al - have not earned themselves by any stretch of the imagination.
5
Better to be loyal to your nation than a leader. Congrats Brits.
162
Those American conservatives understand that the same man who stood in front of the world and believes he got away with SharpieGate, is the same toddler mind who stands in front of the world saying he will get the greatest deal with Xi?
Let that sink in American farmers and their reps.
Sharpie man is your oracle.
More for China, I suppose.
101
@EC Don't you love how the Hong Kong protesters are showing the world what Trump thinks about freedom? They are calling his bluff by singing the national anthem at the U.S. consulate.
12
@Julie
There is no bluff.
Trump in '89 expressed sympathy for the CCP.
The HK protestors have drunk the cool aid if they believe America is interested in spreading democracy where there is no oil.
7
Wish that Republican Senators had the courage of British parliamentarians, including Johnson's own brother, to stop abetting madness when it threatens the country.
79
Imagine if this happened in here - imagine if Congress suddenly turned against "president" Trump.
Imagine.
58
@Peter Hornbein "you might say we are dreamers, but we are not the only ones!".....
6
@Peter Hornbein When I see an elephant fly.
5
It’s called impeachment AND conviction.
8
It would seem that some conservative politicians in the UK have backbone. Meanwhile, the greater majority of US conservative representatives cowardly standby while grandmas and babies are killed in mass shootings, while Moscow Mitch protects Russian interests in crimes against the democratic process, while Trump turns farmers into overworked welfare recipients and while the White House turns Fox News into communist state-run media. Who in the Senate is going to stand up to this?? Not the sheep currently in-seat following their shepherd over the cliff. Wake up America! Our adversaries are playing chess and our White House is playing checkers, and losing.
42
@Matt V Thank you for the clear description of trumps policies vs those in this article that whitewash them for some reason:
"Republicans largely back his agenda, whether it is the appointment of conservative judges, the passage of tax cuts, or deregulation. They are even willing to tolerate his overturning of traditional Republican priorities like free trade.."
Mark Landler, reporter, left out all of the really ugly stuff that republicans "largely back". Why is that? Does it not change the story immensely?
3
Hardly, the Brits have been wobbly of late. The defectors showed not courage but extreme cowardice to accede to the demands of the noisy minority. The referendum vote was clear - the operative word is vote. The rest of the astonishing amount of (parli) alimentary gas expelled is just a spectacle. In the US we recognize that the noisy and bullying 'resist' movement is simply a similar attempt to overturn an election and the mandates which drove same. We ignore and sideline these endomorphs actually or virtually living in their parent's basements, buoyed by a far left media whose motivations appear to be to protect their melting iceberg of ultra liberal influence.
Unless they recalibrate, the dems are doomed to suffer the same fate as 2016. Presently they continue to embrace the same polls which show each of the loony three leading the dem primaries (conjured up by a process and rules the DNC effectively ceded to CNN, MSNBC and NBC) beating Trump. Trump didn't and doesn't poll; even people who approve of his actions are embarrassed by his petulance, bombastic tweets and outbursts - thus they don't cop to supporting him. No newspaper is more aware of the disconnect to polls and votes than the very one you're reading now electronically; the one that ran front page banners clarioning the 90% likelihood of HRC's victory right up to the upset loss. Mid terms were not nationally telling as they featured a surfeit of blue state, gerrymandered and close-call races.
5
@Harry Johnson
The notion that the UK voted for a no-deal Brexit does not hold water. The leave campaign was generally vague about the specifics of Brexit but on one issue they were clear. Mogg, Gove, Johnson and the rest of the ERG members are all on tape stating that the UK would exit with a deal and it would be orderly. They also boldly stated, like Trump on trade wars, that it would be "easy'. JRM even stated, quite ignorantly, that a deal could be concluded "over a cup of tea." So this notion that the Brexiteers are peddling that the UK voted for a No deal brexit is absurd.
On the question of loyalty. The ERG group, a minority in the Tory Parliament members, constantly voted, ridiculed and undermined the Tory leadership of PM May. Jacob Rees Mogg voted against his parties government over 100 times, sometimes against a three line whip. 21 long time Tories voted against the Tory leadership for the first time in their life and were expelled. Johnson has the right to do this. But don't bring up principle, loyalty or discipline because there is nothing of these principles in their decision. They kicked these MOP s out for doing the exact same thing they did themselves on multiple occasions.
8
@Harry Johnson " M.id terms were not nationally telling as they featured a surfeit of blue state, gerrymandered and close-call races."
Gerrymandered districts were in favor of the Republicans NOT Democrats...And, blue states? Orange County, CA. has been red for a long time, it became blue in 2018.
I hope you are wrong. BUT we do need to get out and vote, and that's our only way out of this mess.
4
@Harry Johnson he lost by 3 million votes lol
1
It is refreshing to see Conservative with a backbone. American politics, especially the Conservative brand, has become nothing more than a pageant. Keeping one’s head out of the line of fire while waiting to get re-elected. The voters have to step up and stop rewarding cowardice and sloth.
34
No one in the Republican Party can be certain who is "loyal" and who is "cowardly."
For example, "Moscow" Mitch is likely loyal to himself and so long as his minions are willing to snooze he's happy with a hegemony of mini-quoras.
The ante-bellum coziness of the Southern Confederacy is difficult to distinguish from the tribalism of what may have been just a reluctance of the British caste system to toss off its chains. Some habits and laziness are impossible to give up.
10
Quite Simple--
America's Version of Capitalism Is Incompatible With Democracy
32
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty."
Edward R. Murrow
37
The Brits superior level of wit is evident in their signage during protests.
Here in the states you have marble mouthed Mitch and a President who has the vocabulary of a Fourth grader, go figure...
23
@John. One British sign about Trump is worth repeating: "Don't comb over here".
7
Let’s be honest here.
It’s not just the Republicans who are without principle or a commitment to the rule of the law. The Democrats are equally fearful of the president and his so-called base.
If either (or both) party had the moral strength to stand up to this president — to essentially walk across the aisle like their British counterparts did — he would be out of office by now for all his lawlessness.
Instead we have to sit back, along with our cousins across the sea, and watch our country fall into decline.
8
@avrds We Democrats are determined to win next year's election. We don't have the power to remove Trump before the election no matter how much we would like to.
Try paying a little more attention to reality and a little less to your feelings.
1
@Jack Toner
I pay attention to the Constitution and the oath our representatives take to uphold it. That does not mean only if it is convenient, or only if you are guaranteed to "win," or only if it's politically expedient and popular with Trump's base.
It's easy to take shots at the Republicans for having no principles, but honestly the Democratic leadership is not showing much in that area either.
1
"Republicans largely back his agenda"
because they are making out like bandits.
Self, party, country, in that order.
They haven't gotten to the country phase yet and not much hope that they ever will because country is seen as an asset to serve their own desires, not something they took an oath to serve.
36
Boris Johnson indeed has a lot in common with his counterpart across the pond. The British are smart people and they recognize an off-the-rails demagogue when they see one. We'll find out how smart we are, or not, in 2020.
29
@Mark McIntyre. We will also find out how unhealthy our election system is, should trump win again. Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million , yet here we are with the idiot in charge.
Because Brexit was based on lies and misleading exaggerations, the Tory Party understands that the actual act of separation from the E.U. would be devastating for the U.K.,thus the Party’s disarray. Caught in the Brexit web and faced with the reality of delivering, not a single Tory can clearly articulate what Brexit really means and therefore how to do it.
Scotland for one, voted overwhelmingly to remain. On August 29, Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tory Chief resign in protest. And Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish Minister has called for a second independence referendum. So, it’s not only that retooling the economy will be a Herculean task, but that the union that is the U.K. could unravel, leaving England a piddling mess
29
Johnson knew he inherited a poisoned chalice and defeats in parliament were expected. He's grasping the nettle, draining the swamp and giving us our last best chance of getting out (as voted by the electorate and endorsed by parliament). Businesses have had more than three years to prepare transitional arrangements and most say they have done so. All now depends on whether Boris can duck the legal bullets coming next week.
2
I disagree with the part of the analysis that posits the damage to the UK no-deal Brexit as worse than what Trump and “his” GOP are working toward.
Trump and cronies/supporters meet all modern criteria for imposing either a totalitarian or an authoritarian regime, if not a fascist one, in the country.
That poses civil, economic, military, political, and personal threats to America and nearly all Americans. The risks to democracy and personal freedoms alike seem, with all due respect to the Brits, a far more worrisome situation. One that the supine GOP is apparently either unwilling or, now, unable to confront.
24
The article failed to point out a couple of other critical differences between The American and British (perhaps in the future just English) systems: primaries and Gerrymandering.
Both of these processes foster appeals to extremes, particularly on the Republican side. Timid Republicans are not so much afraid of losing in the general election (where they need to appeal to Democrats and Independents) but being "primaried" by more extreme candidates more likely to be supported Trump.
But ultimately, character and courage need to prevail over self-interest. Perhaps President Kennedy's "Profiles in Courage" should be distributed to every member of the House and Senate to instruct them about the importance of facing the judgment of history rather than just the next election.
As for us, remember to vote in 2020 to hold cowardly to account!
13
@PAT
The judgment of history means nothing to these people because they don't care about what others think of them. All that matters is money.
1
Laurence Tribe, arguably the greatest constitutional scholar in America, stated: "The rise of minority rule in America is now unmistakable". It means Trump and the Republicans are not answerable to the electorate, only to the plutocracy.
Despite GOP Gerrymandering, The House of Representatives is still somewhat representative of the electorate and the last vestige of American democracy remaining.
However, unlike The House of Commons of The U.K., the House of Representatives has no real power to stop Trump from doing anything as Republicans control the Senate despite less than 18 percent of Americans voting for them. Over 82 percent of Americans voted for Senate Democrats, yet they're effectively unrepresented.
Nate Silver laid out how undemocratic our presidential elections are in his Times piece: "Trump's Electoral College Edge Could Grow in 2020, Rewarding Polarizing Campaign. Re-election looks plausible even with a bigger loss in the national popular vote."
Silver addressed demographic changes in America, yet laid out how Trump can lose by far more than the 3 million votes he lost by in 2016 and still win the presidency as "Florida has shifted decisively to the right of the nation", and Democrats have "no promising way" to win the Electoral College if Trump wins Wisconsin in 2020.
The GOP is so venal and corrupt because our system rewards Trump's authoritarianism. No matter how increasingly unpopular Trump and the GOP are nationally, they maintain minority rule.
24
I always knew the GOP believed in American exceptionalism, just didn’t know how far they’d take it.
3
@Keef In cucamonga It's not American exceptionalism they believe in, it's their own entitled exceptionalism to take all they can from America to serve themselves that they believe in.
4
Trump is merely a mirror of the American value, individualism and short sightedness. Seems like money is the only measure to every aspect in the society, better more in my pocket than yours, and I will do everything to make sure of that, period.
11
It appears that British Conservatives care more for their country and their citizens than American Republicans care for theirs.
14
Both Boris Brexit and the Con Don are autocrats who care only for themselves. Here we have the Republican Party filled with craven hypocrites. Britain has a Conservative Party that has some backbone and some members who care more about country than party. This major difference illustrates that there are some conservatives who do care about the people. It’s too bad that they’re across the pond and not closer to home.
4
Another differentiating phenomenon that explains GOP hypocrisy and loyalty to a deranged figure as Trump is the role money plays in politics in the US. It is excessive and toxic for society. Illegal in most developed countries but alas..... we are not one of them.
11
Johnson attempts to ignore British democracy and is reined in by bi-partisan elected representatives doing their job. Trump behaves like an unhinged Tony Soprano and gets a loyalty oath from a cowardly Republican Senate abdicating good government in fear that attack tweets might affect their re-election hopes. Good example of a democracy that works in the interests of its people versus one of that is loyal to its mob boss leader.
8
No secret recipe here. Republicans like what Trump cooks up. Selfishness and stupidity is the main with sides of bigotry and cruelty. Tastes good to people raised on white bread.
Kitchen closes Nov. 2020.
173
@mutineer hope so!
10
@mutineer
I'm fairly confident Trump will be voted out in 2020, but I can only imagine what havoc and destruction he will foist on America and the world during his final two months in office before a sober adult gets control of the vehicle in January 2021. A humiliated Trump will be worse than the one who thinks he's always winning.
@mutineer
I just hope it's sooner than that. Dems -- please show emphatically the spine you so rightly accuse all in the GOP of not having.
1
It has nothing to do with loyalty – it has everything to do with moral courage and standing up for what is (obviously) right, putting country before party or personal considerations. Bouquets to the Conservatives who have a conscience. Brickbats to the morally bankrupt Republicans who have shown again and again how corrupt and cowardly they really are.
92
@Realworld
If there was any "moral courage" they would have put forth a bill and voted to withdraw Article 50. Or they would have agreed to have an election and let the people vote, since everyone was crowing about a do-over over the Brexit vote.
They didn't do any of that. They pulled off a meaningless feel-good publicity stunt so that people can fawn over them.
3
@Viv
I think they had to stop the demolish before they started restorations to the ground floor
6
America's Republicans are doing serious damage to democracy by their cowardice, and they are radical right, not "center right" in any way shape or form. They are as big a threat to democracy as this country has seen, and are tearing down our economy as well as our institutions by cowering in the face of a sick bully. Republicans should stop walking away from thie mess they helped create and show some real courage - a scenario that I agree is not likely. Vote to enact change in 2020!
60
trumps republicans will leave him also, before its over!
19
hmmmm.....americans' view of themselves is, unlike every other country in the world, rugged, free thinking individualists.
except they're not.....
51
One has to look at median salaries in Europe to understand Brexit. Outside of London, the British are very poor and uneducated . Except in Ireland who benefits from the cheating in Europe of the USA .
Life in the UK is much more miserable than in the poor regions of Spain or Italy.Much deeply uncultured.
You drive through the Appalachians , midwest and south of the USA and you see desolation and trailer park towns, and junk cars in front of run down shanty houses.
8
@JPH
The difference is that in the UK they do own their houses, and therefore have no right to fix them even if they had the money.
The houses and apartments are in dilapidated conditions because their true owners, the nobility, will not spend a dime to fix them while they of course increase rents.
Even inside London the educated class can't afford to live. An estimated 40% of nurses and other healthcare professionals are leaving London because their cost of living has gone up by 37% in the last decade, while their NHS salaries only increased by 3.7%. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-36151927
Sorry, but you can't blame this situation on people being uneducated.
4
@JPH Hmm... as somebody who grew up in England, I think you're grossly oversimplifying and misrepresenting life (and people) outside of London.
10
Mining was the backbone of the eastern south! Mountains torn down, rivers polluted and now unemployment! I have read drug use is rampant! Very very sad.
4
The headline would be better written: Boris Johnson Finds His Party Loyalists Aren’t as Cowardly as Trump’s
78
Wrong headline for this article. Considering the reality that everyone here is living through, it should read “For dispirited Republicans, Britain a lesson how party can stand up to leader.”
18
Seems some our friends in the U.K. are still loyal to country over party. Wish we had some of that over here.
29
We do have recourse to control Presidential powers; that's what the Constitution is all about. And it was written by English immigrants escaping the English crown.
Congress and the Judiciary worked ethically to trigger Nixon's resignation and both parties were able to impeach Clinton in the House for lying about ONE affair. Geez! So the laws are on the books and we've seen it work ethically and politically.
So it's not the system; it's the character and ethics of the people in positions of power.
What I would like to know is how much money it takes to get elected in the UK vs the US. I wouldn't be surprised if the need to beg and sell your soul (for what it's worth) is what separates corrupt from non-corrupt government officials. The process of getting elected and then of staying elected is a selection process for the most corrupt.
That's why refusing donations from the rich and powerful is
an honorable and ethical act.
18
@citizen vox
It's partly the system, if you count electoral college and citizens united as part of the system.
6
@citizen vox. English “immigrants”? What country did they emigrate to?
1
@Jackson
Ha, good one and correct. But you could say they emigrated to the “First Nation” of native tribes who were already living here.
3
Republican so-called principles all crumble if their jobs are at stake. Sad.
11
I disagree with the article's premise that some Republicans would stand up to Trump if he pulled out of Nato. I think they would have earlier in his term but not now. They really are a collection of cowards. One difference between the Tories and the Republican party is the Tories do not have a large group of religious right members. The religious right is one of Trump's main pillars of support. One thing Trump and Johnson do have in common is that their policies and political tactics are very harmful for their countries. Boris is on the ropes because the disaster of a no deal Brexit is obvious and looming. Republcans are just beginning to realize how disasterous Trump's trade war will be in the long term. All of Trump's foreign policy initiatives are failing but no one cares. His hatemongering upsets a lot of people but his base loves it. Crippling the economy with a pointless trade war based on chaotic tactics rather than a coherent strategy is what will bring him down. Anyone who thinks he can pull off a trade war needs to study his history of driving companies into bankruptcy to understand the depth of his incompetence.
19
The Brits have the long shadow of Neville Chamberlin - we will bear the burden of Trump and Republicans. The scorched earth program of Steve Bannon is at play on-both sides of the Atlantic - his scruffy image hides a malignant brilliance. The puppeteer while Trump is the puppet. Maybe Johnson will win an election but hopefully those who say on their hands will vote this time around. Yes - Republicans have their conservative judges, have defied state’s rights, and have the tax cut and tariffs that are crippling the economy. Jobs - low paying service sector job (manufacturing is declining). Trade is compromised and Trump’s attempt at dealing with N Korea, the Middle East, and Afghanistan is a failure. His answer to challenges - stop elections. Mueller, Mattis, and Kelly failed the American people. Barr has given Trump the green light on all fronts.
9
Fabulous article. The quote from Mr. Daniel M. Price says it all. Tragically Americans cannot count on the morally corrupt, malignant Congressional Republicans to follow this British courage. BUT WE, the people, can vote Moscow Mitch out by acting on behalf of his opponent, Amy McGrath. Send her a donation even if you do not live in Kentucky.
19
@Hortencia
thank you for alerting me to Amy McGrath...I will get out my checkbook...Moscow Mitch, the one guy who could keep a sitting president from his right to appoint a member to the Supreme Court must go for this to be a decent country with a functioning congress. And no...I don't think Republicans will ever stand up to Trump. Look at Lindsay Graham the one who looked at both Trump and Cruz in the primaries and said something like suicide by pistol or poison...Senator Graham drank the kool-aid.
1
Country before party. What a concept.
9
The British politicians have guts, they stand up and fight for their values and beliefs. When the leader of their party runs rampant over the rule of law, throws out members of his own party for disagreeing with him, they stand up to him, tell him he’s wrong, and do something about him.
When our US president runs rampantly over our laws, rides roughshod over the coequal branches of government, and basically acts like the dictator he wants to be, the GOP cower. The GOP has lost their dignity and respect, they have become the party of corruption and dishonesty. The current GOP lawmakers will go down in history as being the ones that destroyed the Republican Party. RIP GOP
11
Except for politicians like Johnson and the ridiculous Farrage, generally speaking, people in Britain are smarter and more moral that the type of Politicians that support trump in America.
11
US corruption is now so deep as to include false weather reporting to benefit Trump..
31
@Dorothy Teer, yes thus far the articles on the weather issue don't have comments open. I'd like to hear what twisted logic Trump supporters will come up with to address that one. "The Trump-hating press is lying", maybe?
1
In other words, some of the Conservative Brits use their brains to reflect, to think, and to act on principle. And no elected Republican anywhere does that these days. They have become blind sheep.
10
The differentiator: FOX News. Britain can still rely on the BBC.
12
Unfortunately not. The BBC was formerly respectable but it has not covered itself with glory over the Brexit fiasco of the past 4 years. They parroted the xenophobic far right claims of the extremes of the Tory party and consistently let outrageous factually false statements go unchallenged.
1
Dictator Don crashes the US's entire democracy and is allowed to do this by sponsorship of the Russian government and several wealthy donors who bought up our Republican party as well. It's refreshing to know that although the British system has been penetrated by some of the same resources (like the Mercers) - their ethics and values shine through. Even if Bo Jo ruins your economy you will go down with your dignity. The US lost this long ago.
8
The census systems are different.
The US President is effectively elected with a universal census, although indirect. Once elected, impeachment is complicated.
The UK PM is elected as the leader of the leading party, and loses his power whenever his party doesn't rule anymore, OR when he doesn't rule anymore in the ruling party.
Thatcher was dismissed by the Tories while she was at a summit in Versailles. She was left stranded and powerless overseas. She just had lost the leadership.
King Boris is trying to pull the carpet under the feet of whichever Tory who could defy his leadership.
In the meantime he is hijacking the universal census given to a distant former PM.
In short, KB is tinkering a sort of Playmobile Premiership, by scooping a bit of wannabe universal census over there, and scaffolding a bit a Tory leadership over here, and that's how one of the Five permanent-veto-holding members of the UN is being run, not to mention the nuclear power and it's submarine base..;.. ow...it's in Scotland... ouch !
5
The Conservative party is providing a less our GOP should heed in what patriotism and putting country first is.
Alas, they will not learn or see as their snouts are firmly in the Trump and party trough.
4
Sad that there is not one brave republican who will challenge trump in 2020, I know you despise him as much as I do and that you’re out there...cowering.
5
Trump has half of America indeed highly loyal to him because he understands the human condition better than the Brexiteers - if only by default.
Trump has clearly identified the good guys (whites) and the bad guys (everyone else). He speaks for over 80% of whites, anxious about the wrong people moving into their the neighborhood for good and bad reasons. He has plain not paid even lip service to plurality. Instead, he has proposed solutions that make his followers giddy headed; prison camps, walls, ICE raids, ban on Muslim countries, scapegoating of minorities, and tacit and explicit support for ethnic nationalists whom he calls the 'decent" folks.
Hence, nothing else Trump says or does, good or bad, matters to his followers. Not the debt. Not the destruction of American institutions. Nothing. As seasoned as a street thug, Trump know the fewest buttons to push to produce maximum pain. People who think like him, along with their robes and crosses, have flocked to him.
I.e., as a Frat Boy, Trump has made is followers engage in a hazing ritual in the extreme. Now tainted, whites could never vote for a democrat - there will be too much guilt about the stone they threw, and the neighbor they ratted out to ICE.
Boris has not so done; his rakish persona has rendered him an effective gadfly. Yet, he never promised to herd, concentrate, bully, and then kill people. How on earth could he have the same kind of loyalty?
7
We should not be surprised about politicians bungling the Brexit deal. A bad idea cannot possibly be well-executed.
5
Here’s a thought: The U.S. sends Trump supporters to Britain in exchange for those who are against Brexit.
Win, win!
6
@Ziggy
Except that no Brit is just dying to move over here...they would have to give up their very wonderful National Health Service.
1
Another big difference is that the UK has a healthy multi-party political system, which encourages compromise and provides more of an opportunity for disillusioned MPs to retain some meaningful influence as an independents or defect to a party that’s not considered the polar political opposite, as a number of Labour and Conservative MPs have done in joining the centrist Liberal Democrats.
What’s happening the the British parliament serves to highlight not only the blind fealty of Republican lawmakers but also the inherent weakness of a two-party political system that currently seems to be fueling the political polarization in the country.
6
I think the reason is clear, though is as yet relatively unexamined.
In the USA, the GOP can count on white conservative evangelicalism for undying, total loyalty. Trump in particular is their champion, to whom they give complete and total devotion.
I should add, by the way, that this contradicts the Christian confession of Christ alone as Lord of all reality. Christ; not Trump.
But there is no corresponding religious conservative fanaticism in GB. The Church of England has long abandoned its spurious role as the upholder of Conservative party policy and values.
That is the difference. Without a religiously fanatical base, Boris is vulnerable to the whims of the British voting public.
Trump, by contrast, has been given the total pledge of loyalty (in contradiction to the gospel) by white conservative evangelicals, who ARE the base of the GOP.
Whether Trump can carry that loyalty through to another victory in 2020 remains to be seen, but it remains stronger than ever.
A point needs to be stressed yet again. While the British political scene runs along somewhat familiar lines, the American situation CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD without truly examining the underlying theological currents. Thoughtful analysis awaits.
11
Perhaps the British Conservatives have some shreds of principles and vague notions of public service left, unlike their US counterparts, who have completely shed any notion of decency in their quest for power.
6
I wish Republican leaders in the US were half as loyal to the laws and values of their country as these British parliamentarians.
What motivates Republicans in the House and the Senate? Power, control, and money. Anything else they do is just a means to those things.
Since Reagan, for example, Republicans have been devoted to violating the first ten words of the First Amendment and the first four words of the Second Amendment.
5
I was born in Canada, I am Canadian. My parent’s approach to life leaned left, they were open minded, fair and inclusive. From there, I formed my views of what Canada should to mean to me and what government I would support. I am open to all views from all parties and vote accordingly.
What astounds us is this do-or-die attachment Americans have to their chosen party. Allowing someone like Trump to tear down all the norms for the sake of their party is incomprehensible. America has become the poster-child for blind loyalty to party over country. Sewn into that is a simmering, underlying fear of how a far the extreme right will go to protect their man, their turf, and their guns.
Watching Boris Johnson being held to account by his own party starkly illustrates what true loyalty should be and that is, of course, country. Although Brexit is exhausting the UK, they will see it through for the sake of democracy and respect for the rule of law.
11
@Holly
Like you Holly, I don't understand party loyalty, since no party has a lock on the good ideas.
I've voted for most of the parties in Canada depending upon who the leader was and what the platform was.
Tribal loyalty is like only making right hand turns, one day you'll wind up in the ditch.
2
@Holly I agree. I find am in an extreme minority and get funny looks when I say I vote for who I think is best, not by any party affiliation.
1
@Holly Another notable difference between Canada and US. In the US, when you register to vote, you are asked to declare your party affiliation. How would you know until the candidates and platforms are declared? How is this anyone's business? and what is the impact of this commitment to the do-or-die mindset? I realize you can declare independent but why declare anything at that point?
2
Rory Stewart wrote the bestseller "The Places in Between" about his experience of walking across Afghanistan in 2002 immediately after the collapse of the Taliban; an act that required a degree of courage bordering on naivete; and of course the skill to then tell the tale. I'm not surprised one jot by his success in politics or his defiance of Johnson in the current situation.
3
That GWB's economic adviser states, “This contrasts with congressional Republicans here who have mostly been meek, mute or complicit.”, make former President Bush no better than the rest of his Republican colleagues? Bush and his family are just as mute.
3
They are mute because they are trying to protect their dynasty. George III is an up and comer. One word by the Bushes and Trump will destroy their progeny’s chances. They too are chicken.
2
As long as Republicans are achieving their goals -- tax cuts for the wealthy, conservative judicial appointments that will ultimately outlaw abortion, and deregulation of business -- they do not care one whit if Trump burns down our nation and destroys our democracy. The silence and complicity on the part of Republicans will continue, as will the cheerleading for Trump's re-election.
4
After three years I have never fully understood why half of Britain (mainly older folks in England) so hate the idea of being in the EU. It appears that they would prefer to sacrifice their country, it’s economy and the future of their children than make tough compromises from the inside with the largest and most successful trading bloc in the world.
Brexiteers supposedly want to recreate some kind of imperial status quo ante pipe dream (that could hurt their cousins in Ireland and Scotland). If the UK PM really thinks Brexit is the best course then where is his pragmatic plan? It is not the EU’s job to create a separation plan for him and walking the plank is not a plan.
For the USA there is no comparison. The GOP is just fine and loving it with Trump. The conservative elite is getting the cash and policies they want. The working class Trumpsters are too busy reveling in poisonous rhetoric and cruel social policies to care about the carnage and it’s effect on them. No one cares about tomorrow.
The UK’s situation confuses me. Not so in America. Look at any GOP poll. It’s pretty clear what’s happening here.
3
The USA and England are based on a legal system written on metonymy .Not written or written with amendments and rules .
The common law .
In the US and UK people still think with fractions, multiplied ,divided, subtracted, and added . 6/32 x 8x 96 - 3/11+ 17/ 34 = ???
In Europe the law is written on the metaphor of intentionality and the metric system is shared by all as a universal access to the conceptual comprehension of the world.
The civil law vs the world of power and abuses .
1
Leaving Democrats aside, I never fiullly understood until the last election that there were so many divides on the right for how to get to an even more unjust, bigoted society. As long as xenophobia, racism, misogeny, homophobia and greed were there to unite them they could live with their differences. No matter how much they hated each other.
I also found that there really isn't anything that can be appealed to. The fear of "bad optics" when it is explained that maybe other people might recoil in horror at what they have done might have some impact on why they might do something different. But it would have to be explained to them, for example, why children screaming out in pain in detention centers might look bad when to them those sounds are music to their ears.
4
Yes, the GOP favors trump's approach to taxes for the wealthy, extremist judges and deregulation, regardless of a specific regulation's benefits. But it is unconscionable that they support his mob-mentality administration and its daily assault on democratic values.
4
I strongly suspect that after the US Presidential election in 2020 when (if?) Trump looses the Republican Party will disown him faster than Trump walked away from Michael Cohen.
5
Maybe the difference between the Conservatives in the UK and Republicans in the US is that the Conservatives in the UK actually have some moral principles and care about their country. Who knew?
3
Mr Trump can also "primary" his non-favorites in the Republican Party, which has so far kept most of them in line. He should be encouraged to do so in the future, so Democrats can run against unabashed Trump acolytes. Democrats, for their part, should withhold themselves from primarying Democratic incumbents, so they have a better chance of keeping the House --- and winning the Senate.
2
Most of us know what happens to people who sign on with Trump but fail to demonstrate adequate loyalty. Jeff Sessions was one of the first politicians to join Trump’s presidential campaign. He was a loyal foot soldier until he recused himself from the Russia investigation. Because of that, he was trashed repeatedly by the president and eventually fired. The ultimate lesson is that, once you sign on with Trump, you’ve entered a no-win situation: you either go down defending him or he takes you down for being disloyal. Republicans: Be careful what you wish for!
4
What Johnson is finding out is that the party members are loyal to the party, not the man.
It's sad that our GOP isn't the same way.
2
One stark difference between Republicans in the US and
Conservatives in the UK? Republicans here want a theocracy, not a democracy. And the "'Religious' Right" has grown in might since the 1970s -- now they will back Trump no matter what to get their version of the bible in power. No such movement has as great a thrust in British politics. And amoral Trump, power hungry and deplorable, uses them for his own empire building. They play the long game--"Our Version Of God Above All Else Will Lord Over Our Land." Hard times ahead, folks, hard times ahead.
6
It is much to the credit of the United Kingdom and their system that partisanship has not made abject toadies of the leadership of the governing party.
3
Johnson and Trump are not comparable as party leaders. Johnson has something like an agenda and tries to yank entrenched members along to support it; Trump’s agenda is just Trump himself, he is a political outsider without long-standing relationships or shared history with Republicans in government. The GOP members have followed him so far in that most of what he actually does echoes their hopes and dreams, which Trump has basically used as bribery for their support (or at least to curtail any opposition). Johnson owes his position to being the head of his party; Trump is head of his party because he “won” the election and Congressional Republicans are scared of offending the Trump base voters they know they need to stay in office and on the gravy train. Johnson needs the Tory members; Republicans need Trump. What a world, what a world.
5
House Parliament members in London that are refusing to be loyal to an unfit prime minister are wiser than the Republican Congressman who have sacrificed their principles at the alter of the most unfit president this country has ever had.
6
Yes, Nigel Farage and his Brexit Party pose a threat from the far right in Great Britain when there just isn't any room left to the right in the US. I mean how much further to the right can they go, calling for the end of unemployment benefits so people who lose their jobs don't get lazy?
As Someone who spends time in both nations I can see that there is still room for cuts to education, public transit, social welfare and the humane health care system in Great Britain. The arguments on the BBC are far different than on US televisions and the social safety net is still real in Britain.
In the US the far right Republicans, with nothing to stand in their way except milquetoast Democrats, they accomplished the right wing objectives to almost a level of purity. The tax burden has already been shifted from the rich to the working class, business and industry have been deregulated while the people are constantly scrutinized by the government, primary education is a sad joke and secondary education is for profit. Our infrastructure is unsafe and public transit is worse than any industrialized nation.
And now with the runaway deficit all the Republicans need to do is wait until Dems agree with their argument that the only way to fix the U.S.A. is to make deep cuts on Social Security and Medicare.
So what would American Republicans fear an uprising from the right? It might also explain why Trump needed Mexicans so bad. The Tea Party cuts just didn't resonate anymore.
3
Glad to see that some politicians stands up for what they believe in and not just blindly follow the party
4
The article neglects to point out that the two systems of government are completely different. In the British system, Parliament is sovereign: the Prime Minister is merely the first minister and serves at the pleasure of Parliament. The other major difference is that the British system is a multi-party one: the Conservatives have a minority in Parliament and so have had a precarious hold on power. In the US, by contrast, Congress is not sovereign, and the two-party system means that the majority party in either the House or the Senate holds all the cards. It is a system of government that might have worked well in the late 18th century, but is now completely ossified and dysfunctional, whereas the British Westminster tradition keeps evolving and accommodating democracy.
13
Yes, Boris Johnson is on his back feet for now. But current polling suggests that new elections might bulldoze the resistance to his agenda, clearing the way for a no deal Brexit.
An that still would not be the end of the of story. If a no deal Brexit goes through, it might devastate the British economy so completely that only true believers would continue to defend it. Or it might have mixed effects, leaving room for both sides to claim that their prophecies had been fulfilled. Or it might go smoothly and change the minds of prior skeptics.
The outcome of this debacle...and the ultimate lessons to be gleaned for America's political landscape...is far from clear.
9
This is a troublesome development for Trump! If his mindless followers have “read” about the goings on in Britain, they may reach the conclusion that they’ve been gullible and have been had; that they’ve been silly to follow this president like mindless lemmings! But that assumes that they “read” anything, besides listening to the pied pipers in Fox News!
2
Sir Soames said populism and English nationalism were responsible for the present situation. In my humble opinion, the militant extreme right is a factor. They want to scrap the social safety net, bring down taxes and create a hub for financial institutions in London that would operate without much supervision from the government. All the money in Europe would flow to London.
They can’t achieve this within the EU because of laws protecting workers and the environment. Therefore: Brexit.
Who will a lot of money? In the UK, aristocracy of course.
21
@Skiplusse you missed : " make " .
Or Is that the part of the rebus missing ?
The net-net of this article is that the UK still has to operate as a representative democracy, however dysfunctionally, whereas the US does not. Whether you want to admit it or not you have made your president an effective king with real power.
The balance of power between the three branches of government need to be rebalanced.
294
@KxS
"The balance of power between the three branches of government need to be rebalanced."
Excellent point. It seems that we've completely lost the "co-equal" basis on which our system of government is supposed to work.
35
@KxS
Modern day “conservatives” espouse the Theory of the Unitary Executive which grants king-like powers to the POTUS. But these powers are only to be held by GOP presidents. Democratic presidents are to be resisted, stalled and blocked at every turn and decried as tyrants, until the GOP can gerrymander their way to another election victory.
5
Exactly right - the GOP supports Trump because with all his faults mad king Don supports their major goal of staying in power by two things: helping the rich get richer at the expense of everyone else by reducing taxes and deregulation, and by helping those left behind feel they are better than and in control of minorities and women by appointing `conservative` judges. And many of the GOP in Congress are wealthy and directly benefit from the reduction in taxes.
156
@JH thanks for sticking conservative on quotes. we need lots of those -- these people are not conservative in any sense of the notion. they are destructive to the foundations of society.
15
It's not that Trump has not yet done severe damage to the U.S. - he has. It's that his wealthy cohorts - which include members of congress and his cabinet - are benefitting grandly from his policy changes. They have no integrity and will roll with the money as long as possible.
193
@marchfor sanity
Absolutely. We are effectively an oligarchy - rule by the rich.
14
@pkbormes Effectively? Absolutely.
6
It's not only his cohorts. Above all it's his cohorts' common cohort.
3
One similarity both systems share is UNdemocratic outcomes--we have a president, UNdemocratically elected by an electoral college. Brits have a parliamentary systems whereby half of the MPs are elected by pluralities, not majorities: Undemocratic.
Tories, Labor, Lib Dems and the Brexit Party will again vie for votes and half the MPs will win with pluralities, not majorities. A majority will have voted for somebody else. Is it any wonder that politics have been roiled by Brexit and Parliament is at a standstill?
With three options: Stay/Leave with a Deal/Leave No Deal there can NEVER be a majority agreeing as to the proper course of action. Hence the chaos. Elections are not going to change that--they will exacerbate it further.
The only thing for sure is that 20 years from now, when enough older Brits have died off, Britain (with or without Scotland and N. Ireland, who may have left and moved on) will be reapplying for membership to the EU they might now scorn. The gods truly are laughing at us.
12
Unfortunately there is one other similarity between Johnson and Trump.
The main opposition to Johnson, the Labour Party, has never been able to come up with any coherent policy with regard to Brexit as its leader, Jeremy Corbyn, was anti-EU and has never stated a position as to what he and his party actually want to do. They don't want a no deal Brexit but don't know what deal they want.
The Democrats in the U.S. can't decide what to do about Trump. He has committed so many impeachable offenses that for another president any one would have already resulted in at least a full impeachment investigation if not impeachment himself. Yet the Dem leaders are so wishy-washy that they haven't been able to have the courage to actually proceed on this.
22
@Steve The problem is the Senate will never vote to impeach. Not with a republican majority. Having Trump survive the impeachment process could increase his popularity and harden support for him and all republicans so I get why the democrats don't want to move forward.
4
@Ncola, yep. I don't understand the failure of many people to grasp this. It's not rocket science.
2
This article does not discuss the historic importance of Parliament in the British constitutional system. Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament was enough to spark a rebellion among M.P.'s of every party, including his own.
The rise of the Brexit Party gave Johnson enough Conservative Party members's votes to get into Downing Street. But not enough to support his attempt to close Parliament down.
8
@Oriole Which constitutional system ?
There is no constitution in the UK .
The similarities between DJT and Boris Johnson are amazing. From their single minded methods of pressing governance,the entire negative combative tenor of their administrative approach...to their physical appearance and demeanor. Here is hoping that our electorate and our representatives take a similar bold approach to our leadership.
10
7 years after the war of Independence was won and paid largely by France, and reimbursements and the contracts for tobacco were never honored by the US congress ( Beaumarchais was ruined ) , the US declared war to France and renewed commercial relations with England.
And kept the British legal system and measuring system, while France went through a revolution that created a universal way of thinking and the metric system which both make today the philosophy of Europe.
One world retracted into the past, scientifically, politically and philosophically while the other old world evoluted into modernity.
Today the difference is obvious, for politics, ecology, global health,
social justice between the two worlds and the USA, England and Europe.
6
@JPH
That's an interesting perspective. I don't know what you mean about the US declaring war on France, as I understand what you wrote. I do agree France's social system is superior to the social Darwinism of the American one, and the metric system (except for the temperature scale) is superior, but I don't see how that difference came from the American adherence to English common law: America has a written Constitution under a presidential system and the UK retains its parliamentary system. Can you elaborate?
@Richard Johnston Except for the temperature scale from 1720 based on the lowest temperature in Gdansk and the high being the temperature of the blood of a horse . How logical.
Yes the Quasi war, the US declared an unwritten law to France because of slavery.
For the law questions, you have to enlighten yourself with the relations between the common law and its political and social effects. And origins.
@Richard Johnston Please can you say how the Farenheit temperature scale is superior to centigrade ?
It's wrong to imply, as this article does, that Boris Johnson's 'no-deal Brexit' would harm the UK's stability and prosperity more than Donald Trump's actions will harm the U.S.
Trump, with Stephen Miller pulling the strings, is rolling back climate regulations and by doing so weakening the entire world's resolve to deal with this existential threat. He's cozying up to to dictators abroad while unraveling strategic alliances that have served the U.S. for the better part of a century. And he's fanning the flames of racism and xenophobia at home, emboldening domestic terrorism. He's every bit the threat that Boris Johnson is.
The only difference is that Johnson threatened to bring it all crashing down on October 31, which is soon enough that even in our 21st C Attention-Deficit Disorder culture, Conservative MPs were motivated to act.
The deadline is what prompted the Conservative's internal rebellion. The damage Trump is doing threatens to bring down the Unites States just as low, but it will all happen in the vague future. Will it take decades? Even a few years is too far into the future for GOP politicians who don't care about anything that may happen after November, 2020.
15
When personal gain and clinging to office is more important than the general welfare, do not expect any Republican Senator or Congressman to act as the 21 Tory MPs did.
Neither the Prime Minister of the UK nor the POTUS is entitled to personal loyalty.
40
Europeans have a sense of history--with so much bad history played out in their national boundaries. We Americans have no sense of history--there was no yesterday--just what's for breakfast and when does the game begin. This fact was brought home to me when reading the 1619 project--a humbling look into how our current institutions, economic and political systems, are still stained by slavery and genocide. But, without this sense of history we are not a humble nation nor are disciplined culture---both of which are on daily display from our President of the United States. Maybe we need another 400 years or so to begin living out our historical legacy.
19
@Amanda Jones:"Europeans have a sense of history--with so much bad history played out in their national boundaries. "
The term "national boundaries" is the reason Europeans have this elevated sense of history. Every 30 years or so they seem to engage in changing them - willfully or otherwise.
@Amanda Jones
400 years is a long time. Lets hope it only takes another 14 months or so.
4
False equivalency. A threatened No Deal Brexit is an emergency brought about by Johnson's secretive maneuver of prorogueing Parliament. Trump's nearing the end of a 4 year term.
2
@Am Brown they do share many traits, which is the point of the article.
1
This article sums up the situation we are facing. British conservatives put country over party and republicans don’t. Why do republicans hate their fellow Americans? I wonder if the answer has something to do with the dark money in American politics?
27
Most people I have spoken too say “He’s shaking things up”. I feel like he’s burning things to the ground, including the Republican Party, which is fine by me. All those years of oppression towards women, gays and the proliferation or guns has finally reached it’s precipice. Standing in the sidelines is just that “Standing”.
12
The difference is that Americans get lied to with promises that never get done every 4 years, the British vote for something and it just never happens. Democracy needs a reboot.
1
Thanks to the Times for deftly explaining the role of the Brexit party in Johnson's suicidal actions.
Labour and Lib-Dems can use the Brexit Party threat to keep Boris twisting in the wind.
Given that Johnson and others lied when they campaigned for the original Brexit vote, he should face the ignominy of a second one but with the facts now on the table.
5
Thank goodness the Brits aren’t falling into line! Hope springs eternal..
7
The British Conservatives aren’t as loyal to Boris Johnson simply because unlike Republicans they put Country and Institutions first.
13
May both BoJo's and Bozo's loyalists turn on them in the very near future before both America and England turn into Banana Republics. The difference today is that the English are putting country over politics and the Americans aren't.
21
I think you meant Blind Loyalty, a far different aspect in an organization that exceeds logic, democratic values, and reasonable purpose. This is our first chief executive that demands blind loyalty or be cast out into the political wilderness.
4
They’ve got true grit and love of country as opposed to spineless need-to-be-reelected US congress men and women. These people in power forget that more voters, nationwide, did not vote for the morally abject child they are kowtowing to.
13
The fundamental difference between the situation in the UK and the U S is the voting public in the U K is not as gullible as Trump supporters in the U S.
Blind support of policy without thought and intentional mis information is not as easily sold.
8
An alternative headline might be: Boris Johnson Discovers Conservatives in U.K. Are Committed to Principles. The failure of these would-be autocrats can’t happen quickly enough!
7
Unbelievable: roughly 25 politicians risked their political careers & left Boris "Donald" Johnson - for the sake of democracy. Dictatorship is much more difficult in GB.
8
Only billionaires are allowed “rugged individualism” in America now. The rest of us will do as Mitch McConnell deigns. We are trapped in a minority-run capitalist dystopia run by an obviously incompetent leader. Our countries shot at each for far less than the self-immolation we both find ourselves in.
9
Like Pres. Trump, Bojo represents the sovereign voice of the people over the political interests of the globalist.
@batazoid Boris does not lie as much as Trump, although many of the reasons he advertised to leave the EU were not true.
Throwing Rory Stewart under Boris' bus is, colossally, the dumbest thuggish move an ostensible Conservative could make, on a par with telling Patrick Leigh Fermor he may not go out walking, or Francis Drake, sailing. If the Party wanted to seal a sub-Thatcherite renown for brutish heavy-handedness, it could not have done better. But if Conservatives in Britain possess no consciousness anymore that their country's greatest asset is as an ornament of Parliamentary government, what worries them about Brussels? They've lost their souls in this petulant reclamation.
1
Our federalist system is not as democratic as the parliamentary system of Great Britain. In our system , once the election is over we are stuck with the results for four years . If our new leader clearly becomes unpopular with the public (or although unpopular was put into office by the vagaries of the Electoral System)--we grin and bear it. Four years are set in stone , because the impeachment process is difficult to enact and rarely used (stone is hard to break).
But under the parliamentary system, where initially the legislative body has representatives from minority parties, with a form of proportionality determining voting, there is a sense that the majority will determines the results. So that in such a system, changing leaders can be a frequent occurrence , if the majority does not go along with the leader. It should not be surprising that in Britain members of Parliament are willing to stand up against foolhardy leadership.
15
@shimr Yes. Not only that. Trump is tolerated by his government because all they care about is his solid redneck base, and their prospects for reelection. Boris, lovable though he is, brings no such guarantee with him. Farage probably has more of a base.
2
British conservatism will for sure survive Boris Johnson. GOP no longer exists as a party of conservatism.
307
@tankhimo GOP put up with Trump's extreme incompetence, because they believe he is the key to reelection. They have abandoned their historic mission.In a just world, this would mean their demise.
Unfortunately , up to 2016 , the Democrats largely abandoned their mission also as the party of workers and unions amd switched to identity issues.
10
@tankhimo
There is no such thing as a conservative. They're all just Republicans and they conserve nothing.
24
@John Ayres
Any group not lilly white is accused engaging in politics.
6
I for one have been waiting and waiting for republicans to come to their senses and rise up against Trump but it never came. Once this charade if a president is over there won't be much ground republicans can stand on. I applaud the "rebels" in the conservative party maybe our congress people will be inspired.
161
Don't hold your breath.
6
This is overwrought, both with respect to Boris Johnson and Trump. I don't think Boris has any nefarious designs on the Conservative Party, and his action is exactly what any other leader would have done, left, right, or center. Party discipline is key to maintaining a government. His action is a gamble and a calculation, that the EU will not negotiate a better deal unless they know a no-deal Brexit will occur. Not unreasonable, but a high-stakes gamble.
As for Trump, his hold on the Republican Party is very thin and solely based on the power of the presidency. After he is gone, he will be quickly forgotten and have zero influence.
8
I believe you have underestimated Trump's core supporters. Unfortunately, they are the new Republican party, and we should expect their power to remain a force in American politics for many years to come. Its true Trump may be forgotten, but the philosophy he has emboldened in the U.S. will not, and the supporters of the movement are multiplying (literally).
8
@wnhoke I agree. Those opposed to the tactics of Boris offer only acceptance of May's insulting deal , or indefinite postponement with the unrealistic hope that one side gets tired. It will not be the EU.
e
@wnhok
"Party Discipline, loyalty." You do know that Boris Johnson twice voted against his own PM's Brexit plan? You know that Jacob Rees-Mogg voted against his own party over 100 times, multiple times against a three line whip? When JRM was a back bencher he saw voting against the leadership of the Tory party a matter of conscience, a right of any member of Parliament. When he achieves power suddenly a single vote against the party is worthy of expulsion, something he did, I repeat, over 100 times. This can only be describes as nothing else other then rank hypocrisy. Johnson has abandoned almost every custom and tradition of the British Parliament and has adopted a complete end's justify the means approach.
2
How do you get to a pro-Brexit deal? With the threat of "no deal." Otherwise, you get something that is voted down three times by the House of Commons. Voters voted to leave the EU, not stay in a ludicrously unfavorable arrangement that defeats the purpose of leaving in the first place.
The rebels and the opposition oppose Brexit. Some of them claim they just want to avoid no deal, but let's be honest -- they really want to avoid leaving the EU. They were elected on manifestoes that explicitly stated they would respect the referendum result, and in the case of the Tory rebels, declared that "no deal is better than a bad deal."
All that aside, this was a matter of confidence. The rebels voted to give Jeremy Corbyn control of the order paper. They were warned and chose to go ahead anyway.
Sadly, the media is predominately anti-Brexit and wants to see the UK stay in the EU. So you get articles like this one that make it out like the MPs are noble hunger strikers fighting for justice, when in truth they are seeking to ignore the largest democratic vote in British history.
The voters will have the final say. And your beloved Tory rebels won't like it.
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@Dan
It is wholly disingenuous to claim that the people who voted for Brexit, based on a campaign of deliberate demonstrable lies, voted for the no-deal Brexit that blustering blundering Boris would bring on.
That voters were lazy about seeking out the facts is their fault; that they were presented with outright lies is down to Boris, Dom, and their unattractive ilk. Carelessness, herded by narcissitic nihilism, produced chaos.
David Cameron allowed the referendum, broke the UK, and quickly left the store before he could be asked to pay for the damage. The Conservative party in the UK, like the "conservatives" in the US have been radical upenders, not conservators. In both countries, they have poisoned discourse, discouraged actual discussion, and dismissed evidence-based assessments.
That the "rebels" as you call those have elected to dissent from, at this very late moment, may indicate that they are capable of conserving some remnant of parliamentary rule. Their choices may mark what is usually called thought: the capacity to respond to evidence.
If the Brexiteers are so confident that what Britain wants is a no-deal Brexit, put that question on a referendum.
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I bet if the UK had held the Brexit vote again 2 days after the initial vote, it would have went the other way. Flimsiest, least informed popular referendum ever held. It’s like giving a pop quiz to a group of students you never explained the lesson or the stakes to, let them answer based on mood, and then run around and call it a clear mandate.
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@Dan
Respectfully, I think you're way off on your point about the media. It matters not a whit if the NYT or anyone else on this side of the pond wants Brexit or not. There is no shortage at all of rabidly pro-Brexit commentary in the UK, ranging from the WSJ equivalent aimed at the elite (Telegraph) to the tabloids. And yet despite all that favourable coverage lauding precious Boris and castigating the rebels, there are still those brave enough to rise above party.
As to your final point about Boris' means being justified if he is reelected, I'm not sure if you will find many remainers who disagree with that. *If* Boris wins re-election on a nakedly reckless plan to leave come what may, then the people have truly spoken. But I don't think he will win, and I doubt he does either. And if he does win on that platform, the NYT will have been entirely correct: that this is a massive shift right from 2 years ago, and the insurrection by MPs thus has a logical basis.
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Country over party. What a revolutionary concept.
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Country before Party.
We could use some of that over here on the side of the Atlantic.
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The Republican party is a portrait in cowardice in the face of a reckless demagogue and aspiring authoritarian. You have to wonder if any of them watch Britain's rebel Conservatives and think, "Why can't I be so principled and act on behalf of what's right for the country?"
Are any of the Republicans even capable of such self-reflection? Do they worry about how history will judge them someday? I suspect it's mostly about political survival and not ending up on the wrong end of one of Trump's Twitter storms.
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The love of money breeds loyalty. Boris should look into buying hotels, casinos and for profit colleges.
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The Republican Party has been morally bankrupt for decades. It has become strident under trump. I cannot think of a group of individuals who pray in a house of worship, call themselves Christian yet lock up children, deliver Jim Crow justice, Lynch people of color- thinking this is what democracy should be for them exclusively, their version of the constitution. It is a case of the tail wagging the dog. The Jim Crow South calling the tune with McConnell as band leader.
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@WillBRR
Exactly. Thank you.
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@WillBRR. Perhaps christianity is not what it pretends to be...
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@Stephen In many ways you're correct: the right-wing "evangelicals" are moral relativists, self-seeking, materialistic, Social Darwnists, while the ones who don't subscribe to these beliefs cower, believing that "meekness" and "non-judgement" are Christian values in the face of cruelty and barbarity. "Who are we to say what's in their hearts," as if their words and actions don't make it obvious.
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I really am irritated by the bent of this article which suggests that loyalty to party is laudable and more valued than loyalty to country. I applaud the true leaders who stood up to a bully who has no plan and will wreck Great Britain.
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What a highly admirable show of character that so many British party members put national interest before themselves or their party. That’s how true democracy should work. History will be kind to them.
The article states that the stakes are higher in Britain; and that may be true. But let’s not forget about all the destruction caused by Trump: his foreign policy has escalated the possibility of starting a new war; his disregard for the environment has accelerated climate change; his separation of immigrant children from their parents has traumatised families; his stacking the Supreme court with white, male conservative judges now unfairly favours white males; and the horrific treatment of Puerto Rico after its devastation by Hurricane Maria meant far more deaths than was reported. And I could go on and on….
Yet Republicans do nothing. Nothing.
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@T What did you expect? Put country over personal position and power? A novel idea for a party that does not believe in community betterment. Just take care of your own.
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@T
Republicans do nothing because, as the article says, they are in agreement with many of those policies. They are getting much of what they want and have decided the rest is worth sacrificing. Because the consequences are less immediate than Brexit's, it's easy for them to dismiss them and feel they won't have to account for the damage.
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Can’t wait until Trump loyalists start to jump ship! At some point they’ll have to come to their senses.
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@Pigenfrafyn what do you think he’ll have to do in order for them to do that? I mean, no reasonable human being, or even past presidents reputation would survive what he’s gotten away with. Im truly curious, America, what is that line?!
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@Pigenfrafyn the latest I'm hearing from my Trump voting acquaintances is that they don't like Trump but they believe the Dems, if elected, will open the borders and take guns away. So they will support Trump because of "what he stands for." They have no problem twisting the logic to suit their narrative and they are resolute about not supporting the "hateful, far left Democrats". Let's hope enough voters go to the polls this go-round.
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I would nonetheless trade Trump for BoJo in a New York minute.
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Wow. Politicians who care more about their country than their party. Imagine that.....
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“However distasteful they find him, Republicans largely back his agenda, whether it is the appointment of conservative judges, the passage of tax cuts, or deregulation.
They are even willing to tolerate his overturning of traditional Republican priorities like free trade, ”
As is typical of Times “analysis” this is a package of untruth.
That second sentence is a three card monte sentence. Trump on free trade is anti republican. Trump in playing American Caesar—Douthat’s fave when mild Obama was in office now lost when whacko Trump does it for real—has put America behind his weird allegiances to to Putin and Kim, has given enemies classified information, often given enemies classified information, has temporary cabinet officers without confirmation in violation of the constitution, has stolen money congress funded for other purposes to build a wall it refuses to fund in violation of the constitution, has like a dictator declared national emergencies that don’t exist in violation of the constitution, has refused to provide tax returns in violation of statute and constitution, has even before the election and since given himself the right to decide who won the election, has asked government employees to commit crimes on the offer to pardon them, has intervened in criminal trials by dangling pardons during trial.
But I don’t keep a list. The ones republicans should be keeping would be longer than the Declaration of Independence list of grievances.
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The difference is the Trump loyalists believe in Party Over Country and obviously the Brits believe in Country Over Party. Give me the latter for America please.
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Representative Katie Porter brings up the reasons for the failing governmental systems both in Britain and America - they are elite clubs well financed by special interests.
When a newly elected Congress member comes to Washington who is not part of the moneyed old guard, she found she could not even get an office or secure health insurance without being told “it comes out of your own pocket.”
If you represent the majority of Americans or Brits, you do not have those resources. Our system is structurally built for upper class white males to control and to become entrenched to the point of turning to stone.
If we want a truly “democratic” system, it would take passing bills that make it “user friendly” for an average Jamil or Jane to run for office.
We are in a fight over presidential power and it is turning quickly into a Kleptocracy, with fascist possibilities. At least a parliamentary system is holding up better under a racially motivated hate fest across the pond than it is here!
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"it is turning quickly into a Kleptocracy ..."
I would have used the past tense.
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Also relevant in this conversation is the issue of campaign financing and expenditure; UK laws are strict in minimizing the amount that can be spent, and it is centrally funded by the party. Politicians in the UK are therefore more beholden to the party line but somewhat insulated from direct pressure from corporate interests (as regards campaign funding, if not personal wealth). The degree to which many US politicians rely on these corporate relationships for their continued access to power means they’re that much less likely to risk upsetting the apple cart.
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Another key difference might be: the focus on a single issue that has dominated British politics and media (though perhaps my impression of such is due to being an American outside the everyday of British politics and media) unlike in the United States, which bounces from issue to issue every other hour practically. The GOP knows they only have to wait out the news cycle and no one will remember that they didn’t stand up to Trump on this or that topic.
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@ZB
That definitely applies to the personality cult of Individual 1 but not to the majority of voters who want to see the end of the nightmare and destruction of their country and it's standing in the rest of the developed world.
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Brexit is different from Trump's policies not only in its potential for near-term drastic effects but also in its near irreversibility. Most of the things that Trump has done that some Republicans oppose can be reversed immediately by a new administration. So there's no need for career-risking heroics.
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@EJ - there'll be no quick fix to America's damaged image among allies and trading partners across the planet. It's a 7 billion person-sized world that's very connected and America isn't an island in the 16th century.
We all know 40%+ of Americans support a POTUS who backs out of agreements, insults, attempts to bully and is quite frankly a pathological liar. Fewer and fewer nations have interest in being another nation's floor matt. Over time, trust can be earned but it won't be immediate and it is important in this century. I'd argue that America's reputation should have been worthy of some career-risking heroics.
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@EJ
You can't reverse the damage to the planet caused by Trump's attack on the environment; you can't erase the trauma of immigrant parents and children who were separated under Trump's inhumane policies; you can't take back the lives or Puerto Ricans who died because of Trump's fumbling of aid in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria.
I could go on and on and on...
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@EJ
Respect and trust?
Not reversible immediately, if ever, especially when it is clear for all to see that betrayal at the whim of a cavalier president is so easily and carelessly done.
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Let’s face it the reason why the Conservatives have not been able to deal with Brexit is because the party under Cameron and May never agreed on the way to handle it. When Boris applied for the role of party leader, he said he was going to ensure Brexit in October 31, deal or no deal, and the vast majority of party members supported him. Well, what did the rebels misunderstand about his determination to ensure Brexit by Oct 31? Why did they still continue to object to his approach and try to undermine it? Why is it a good thing that party members undermine their leader and implode the party? What is their rush to be in the opposition and have no power at all? No, this is not a good model for Republicans in the USA or any other rationale governing party.
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@James
The real reason is that those supporting Brexit lied to voters with regard to a financial windfall to things like the National health Service that withdrawing from the EU would result in. Within days after the vote, they admitted that they had lied regarding this. Also they led voters to believe that the EU would give Britain everything it wanted upon withdrawal, another lie.
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One other key difference is the Republicans largely have everything that they want. Military spending is nearly equal to the whole world's. The government borrowed money and gave it to rich people, who already had historically low taxes. And of course the health care system in the US is still massively exploitative. So they're not as concerned. Farm bankruptcies clearly don't concern them and they lost China already anyway, but at least they got theirs.
The US is also far richer than the UK and this is as good as it gets for conservatives.
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It appears to me that our allies across pond are putting country over political party. Sad our Congressional representatives can not demonstrate such courage. The party of Lincoln should step up to the plate and show just a little bit of backbone for the sake of their country and its citizens.
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Unfortunately, the so-called party of Lincoln does not show much concern for their country. The GOP is simply not what it once was.
There. It took a lot of effort on my part to keep it simple and non-emotional in comparison to what I really think.
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@Mary Ann
I am happy to offer the feedback that I find your thinking rather accurate and also that many NYT readers, including me, are likely to find even more value in you opinions when you can bring yourself to vent just a tad more of your emotions, Mary Ann
2
One easy explanation for this difference between Tories and Johnson on the one hand and Republicans and Trump on the other is institutional. The British PM bears no Executive powers but is ultimately beholden to the Party, hence the latter has freer rein in relation to the former. This doesn’t mean it can’t be filled with lackeys who scrape and snivel before their leader as the US Republicans in Congress do with Trump. But as President, Trump holds an office that frees him of the kind of checks built into the Parliamentary system. And he’s got that power enshrined in the form of a Constitution for which there’s no parallel in the U.K.
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@Rip we have checks built into our system to limit the power of any particular branch of the government too. It's just that republicans would need, let's say guts, to enact them. I just don't see Moscow Mitch putting country before party anytime, even at the expense of the people who voted him into office. Let's stop pretending Congressional republicans are helpless. Apparently too many of them are busy spending money at Trump properties.
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@G Ora just to be clear: my point isn’t that Congress (legislative branch) is helpless in the face of a President (executive branch), although in the case of tyrannous Trump the Republican Senate has cynically supported his overreach rather than checking it (in utter violation of their oath to uphold the Constitution). My point was the simpler institutional one that the British PM does not enjoy the same degree of autonomous power and fixed term of office, ‘beyond party,’ that the US Constitution grants to the President.
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There are a large group of Republican never Trumpers who have obstructed and sabotaged the Presidents efforts. It is simply untrue to say the President has received uniform support from members of the Republican Party.
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@Michael Green can you name some of them? Collins and Flake talked a good game but when push came to shove voted with the president. Graham loudly objected until the only Republican with any guts, McCain, passed away. Now he's a presidential lackey too. Who are these brave never Trumpers republican Senators thwarting his policies and agenda?
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@Micheal Green
I can’t think of anyone. Names? Oh wait, that one congressman from Michigan. There is a solitary dissenting Republican.
7
......the Trump Administration must have better tapes and recordings of people than Boris does.
Cheers to the British for locating their backbone, and a shred of integrity - they would be good products to export, if the tariffs aren't too high.
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It is quite possible, the British have learned a lesson at our expense.
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@Jane K
Dear Jane,
"our expense"? Really!?
Brits didn't charge you and your fellow Americans anything. You bought that bill of goods all on your own.
Keep in mind that with this poor decision a whole lot of people outside the US paid a price too.
We stand outside and watch as "the greatest democracy in the world" blows it.
Do something.
9
@JRD, we, as Americans are paying the bill for Trump’s election, every day and likely far into the future.
No intention to offend, but it seems that the world is watching and perhaps learning from our electoral mistake. However, as I believe my comment may indicate, I did not, nor do not, support Trump.
We could see this as a challenge. Yes, our formative act was to gain independence from Britain. But, overall, and today, it appears that British leadership exhibits more character.
So—in retrospect—what was independence for?
11
Donald Trump got 63 million votes, losing by less than 3 million.
Boris Johnson got less than 100,000 votes.
Mr. Johnson recently said that he would rather be dead in a ditch than ask the EU for a Brexit extension. I am sure that if you polled the British people, asking whether they would rather see Boris Johnson dead in a ditch or Prime Minister, 'dead in a ditch' would win in a landslide.
Mr. Johnson has written books. Donald Trump has never read one. Literacy is not only unnecessary for a con man, it can be an absolute drawback to a successful career.
Dan Kravitz
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@Dan Kravitz Genial analysis in a very short cut .
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Neither Johnson or parliament can solve this mess. We need a series of referenda now starting with do you support no deal or not. Assuming the answer is not the following week we should be asked do we support the Theresa May deal or not. Assuming not the following week we should be asked should we send our negotiators back to request a different deal based on different red lines or should we just simply revoke article 50 ? Three votes on consecutive Thursdays. Proper democracy and the only way to give legitimacy to whole crazy rollercoaster of the last three and a half years?
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@Michael I like that. Particularly where to my understanding, the first referendum was advisory. Ok, then it is more complicated, as you say. Hope there could be a published, vetted primer on each deal for the public to review. As an onlooker, to me the distinctions weren't made very clear between ginned-up fear of the capitalist-collectivism of the EU and what UK is subject to and what UK has been able to skirt, vs whatever real burdens UK citizens bear in remaining.
Then, assuming each deal for review, how things would be different, the unknowns and risks and potential upsides. Good luck!!! Maybe this would be a coalesced Liberal Dem/Labor position to "further democracy" with such referenda should they route the Tory govt. And, if citizens vote leave, worry about landing right-side-up later but just jump off that cliff, fair enough. I hope not though.
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British politicians have been as wily as any other. However, they've been patriotic too. American Republicans on the other hand are simply a criminal class, as Mark Twain observed (he said all members of Congress, but we're come a long way since.) Disagreements within the electorate aren't between those that are conservative and others more progressive, as presented. In the US, it's simply a battle between the more worldly-wise and the more gullible.
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Imagine, representatives willing to put national welfare above the letter by their name. As an independent thinker and voter (NPA) I cannot understand the obsession with party monicker over sound policy and good governance.
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Another large difference, between Trump and Johnson, is that Trump is elected nationally, as President, independent of Congress; not directly part of it. Johnson is elected as an MP, only from his district, not really nationally. His is the leader of his party IN Parliament, he is part of Parliament. The whole nation didn't really have a vote to elect him, personally, as the whole USA has a vote to elect the President. So, Boris has a somewhat less deep national base of his own, compared to Trump, who does have his own base, independent of members of Congress.
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@danxueli
That’s an extremely good point, except that Trump actually lost the popular vote. He wasn’t elected nationally. He was elected by te Electoral College.
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The whole country does have a vote to elect the President, but under the current system, some citizens’ votes are more valuable than others.
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@danxueli while that may be true, in British politics, voters understand that if they vote for a candidate from one of the major parties, they are voting largely for the party rather than the candidate. Unlike in the US, where individual candidates and their personalities matter more and reflect local political sentiments (think Joe Manchin (D) of WV and other Blue Dog Democrats or Susan Collins (R) of Maine), in the UK, MPs are elected largely for their party loyalty and are expected to follow the party's manifesto which results in a (generally) more coherent and disciplined parliamentary bloc. Compare that with the factionalism that is rife in Congress with the Tea Party bloc, the Freedom caucus, the "Gang of Four", etc. that have consistently frustrated the will of their party leaders.
17