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One possible response to "But where do you get your protein?" I've found helpful"
Where does your protein gets IT'S protein? (the irony being that the vast majority of our protein sources are themselves vegans...)
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So, as a mostly vegetarian for the last 30 years....I'm pretty sure that the veggie eaters have different lifestyles and that is the cause.
That big new metastudy found no cause. just correlation.
Sounds eerily similar to the smoking sceptics in the sixties. We already have evidence based science showing causation between red and processed meats and cancer. What more do you really need to know?
I would've thought the avoidance of CVD would've been even higher than mentioned. Maybe because a lot of the Japanese subjects ate fish. Over here, there would be more burger eaters so the difference may be higher. Doesn't matter to me, anyway, because I get a large amount of my protein from dairy so I wouldn't qualify as a strictly plant protein person. Doesn't seem cruel to animals to eat milk-based products and, for the most part, I have low-fat, high protein dairy.
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@Ron A The act of milking a lactating cow to produce milk might not be a cruel act, but the process to get that cow to constantly lactate certainly is. Forced artificial insemination, separation of mothers from their calf's right after birth, and all male dairy cows being sold as Veal or Beef are all standard practice on dairy farms large and small. Eating Dairy might not be as bad for you as red meat, but it still isn't great for your health and it is certainly not much better for the animals themselves.
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@Dan H
You really think yogurt and cottage cheese are not great for my health?
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@Ron A
Well, why don't you try veganism and see? Re-read Dan H's comment above and think a little. I am 76 and a lifelong defender of animals and a vegan. I can stand not eating unhealthy concentrated gobs of dairy products and eggs with overloaded amounts of inorganic calcium and second-hand protein. I am this way for the good of the animals, but my excellent health is a winner because of it.
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Where are the evolutionary scientists on this issue? In college I took primate psychology and learned that when we evolved into omnivores our brains were able to spend more time on higher level thinking than digesting food. If we all become vegan would we devolve as a species? My diet is 90% plant based and 10% meat. I have to say I feel better with some meat in my diet. When I was 100% vegan I felt anxious, weak and had serious brain fog.
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Well two years plant based. Anxiety has left the building together with the meat, dairy and eggs.
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None of these studies are very good, of course, since you can't do extended nutritional experiments on people. The "adjustments for age, sex smoking, fat intake, body mass index, physical activity and other health and behavioral characteristics" make a house of cards upon which the findings rest, since they all have some error at least and those errors might not cancel out. Still, since we aren't going to get better info, it is marginally interesting.
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First, the study uses food frequency questionnaires, which are notoriously inaccurate. Second, as a JAMA responder cites about this study (and the nytimes author should have read): 'The article states in the abstract that “Intake of animal protein showed no clear association with total or cause-specific mortality” and then in the next sentence “In contrast, intake of plant protein was associated with lower total mortality.” If there is no clear association between meat protein and mortality, how can plant protein be associated with lower mortality? If there is no association, then there is no association.' ... This is just another case of vegetarians having a healthy lifestyle, and it probably has little to do with meat eating in general. The NY Times keeps interpreting studies incorrectly.
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@michael Just because you don't eat much plant protein, doesn't necessarily mean you eat more animal protein. You do have the option of eating less total protein.
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There's no doubt that eating meat is bad for the body, bad for the planet, and certainly bad for the animals. It's a primitive tradition and high time that we moved past it.
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Oh I am SO SO sick of getting asked "where do you get your protein?"!!
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@Almost vegan
Sigh. Same here. After almost a decade of being vegan,
this question gets asked by people who pretend to care but are really just ignorant about plant based nutrition.
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@Left Coast and @Almost vegan why don't you respond with - "I get it from the same source (plants) as some of the largest land animals - elephants, Giraffes, Rhinos, Camels etc." Plant eaters build bigger muscle and bone structures.
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@Almost vegan yet you never do answer that question clearly. I'd honestly like to know. Saying you get it from the same place plant eaters do doesn't answer it.
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The Western diet is killing us with heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc.
Not only we we place meat at the center of our diet, we have meat products at every meal.
We could not have survived in the wild if this much meat was required to live.
We are eating ourselves to death.
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After following a predominately plant-based diet most of my adult life, I am now in the midst of severe iron deficiency anemia as a result. I supplemented with Vitamin B12 but not iron as I am older. I cannot tolerate liquid iron so I am undergoing iron infusions. The hell for me is polyneuropathy sensations....burning and tingling which leaves me suffering. Be mindful of your yearly bloodwork and insist upon a ferritin test if your labs are flagged as low. Six years of this and my doctor’s dismissal have left me ill.
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@Nora
Sorry to hear what you have been going through.
I became ill and anemic on a vegan diet, even with combining proteins. Once I added eggs back to my diet and began drinking plant milk (I drink Ripple pea milk), I became healthy and vibrant again.
Currently, I try to eat two plant-based meals a day and one animal protein meal (today it will be Wild Cod).
I've kept my diet all natural for more than 30 years (eating clean meat) and it worked for me. My foray into veganism didn't, but with more plant-based options available it's get easier for me eat a combination of both.
In the end, we have to do what works for our bodies and not what studies say. I also think genetics and culture comes into play. For example, I've never heard of a vegan Eskimo because their bodies require large amounts of fat to insulate from the cold. However, my body wouldn't tolerate eating an Eskimo diet.
I wish you the best and I hope you find a diet that supports your body.
p.s. a spoonful of organic black strap molasses a day helped me raise my iron and ferritin levels back then. To this day, I use Solgar sublingual liquid B12 to keep my counts up.
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Tablespoon of black strap molasses with my oatmeal. "Problem" solved.
Finally. Please do more research into the health benefits of plants.
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Am I the only one who is not clear about the role that fish based protein, which is a mainstay of Japanese food, in this study? Yes, it was mentioned but not in a way that had any statistics included.
In fact, I find these articles that reference a study and do not include the actual numbers to be suspect; they read like propaganda. Moreover, how many of the casual readers herein know how they “adjust for, smoking, age, sex....?”
Look, I get it, eating meat is the new smoking cigarettes. But this article doesn’t give much hard information.
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@KxS
If you are unhappy with the way the article summarizes a study, just google the study itself.
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@KxS
Fish was only mentioned in passing as the study was focused on plants.
I understand what you're saying but I like the way this health writer summarizes a scientific study. I prefer to read a short, conversational article. I'm not interested in a lot of n's and y's and statistics. I know some people are and that's why a link to the study is usually included, as it is here. Don't forget this is a "wellness" column, not a journal. And, yes, toward that end it may read like propaganda.
I am a diabetic and I control my diabetes by eating strict low carb and high fat and fasting. I have never taken any insulin and I have it under control so much that my triglycerides were at 53. I eat meat in moderation. My BMI is 26. I LOVE eating all kinds of vegetables, but unfortunately, all grains and high carb veggies spike my sugar/insulin. Since I am obviously insulin resistant, I can't eat them as much as I would like to. The US has a very high rate of diabetes and it is climbing - you probably have at least ten friends who are pre-diabetic. Asking diabetics to eat less meat points them toward more carbs, and as a result, contributes to their carb insensitivity/fatty liver/diabetes/obesity. It's not so simple to just say "make the switch". Some have said to me, "Just take the pill and be a vegetarian!" - hmmm...which is more ethical?
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@Mysterious
"hmmm...which is more ethical?"
Depends on which species you care about being ethical toward. Humans will always make excuses to continue their poor habits, even at the detriment of other species or their own health.
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Hey, @Mysterious! You might be pleasantly surprised to discover that not only is a plant-based diet more ethical, but like this article suggests, it’s healthier for you, too—even as a diabetic! Numerous studies have shown that people can prevent, manage, and even reverse type 2 diabetes (type 1 can be also be better managed) by eating a whole foods, plant-based diet. Not to mention it’s a colorful and delicious diet that’s also much friendlier to our planet. Cutting out animal products may have you back to enjoying complex carbohydrates in no time. Below are a couple of resources to check out, and I wish you the very best with your health.
https://www.pcrm.org/health-topics/diabetes
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-best-diet-for-diabetes/
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@Mysterious
"Asking diabetics to eat less meat points them to more carbs"... no it isn't. It's simply directing them to get their protein from plants instead of animals.
https://drc.bmj.com/content/6/1/e000534
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So why is it so hard for Americans to accept plant based proteins? There's an abundance of "spinach, broccoli and legumes like lentils, soy beans and chickpeas" available in the US. With all the multiplicity and diversity of spices and condiments available, people have so many choices. Food need not be bland, it can be flavorful and delicious, while appealing to the eye as well..
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@petey tonei
I would personally argue how accessible are the ingredients being mentioned? I know that in certain boroughs people may have to travel further out to get to alternative more healthier stores, ones which could supply more of a variety. I'm not asking that people spend more but lessening fast food chains and increasing more green grocers would be an ideal start.
I agree with your when you say how food doesn't need to be bland. Plant based food not only is filling and fuels your body but also can be less expensive at times then lets say meat products.
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@petey tonei
It's the age-old question: are human beings carnivores or herbivores? Animals are either one or the other and know instinctively.
Scientists have shown the evolution of our teeth illustrate we are carnivores with teeth meant for tearing flesh, however other scientists claim the earliest homo sapiens weren't carnivores because they only found evidence of grain in their teeth.
We are left scratching our heads as to what we are by nature. The only absolute we know is that Fred Flintstone was a carnivore.
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So this morning, I tried to emulate my fellow carnivores. I jumped on a cow and started to rip it to bits with my awesome and fearsome canines. It was a blood bath I tell you. Then I woke up to reality and managed to tear into an apple. Turns out that's where my teeth were designed for to start with.
I am already looking forward to my lunch, with a salad with lentils, farro, and corn. Plant protein is indeed excellent, but you do need to remember to combine it correctly, as no one plant provides all of the essential amino acids. A combination of grains and legumes gives you excellent protein.
I would have become vegan years ago, except for the fact that I love cheese and yogurt.
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@Sally. As a lifelong vegan hemp and flax seed oil complete da amino acid list
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@Sally
"I would have become vegan years ago, except for the fact that I love cheese and yogurt."
You would be amazed by all of the new delicious
vegan cheeses and coconut-based milk!
Eradicating dairy from my diet 9 years ago completely cleared up my eczema, adult acne, and stomach pains.
Your handle shows your location as Switzerland so I'm not sure how readily available these new vegan options are for you but when you travel, especially to places like London, Berlin, Madrid, try them out!
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@Sally The statement that all or most plant-based proteins are missing one or more amino acids is false. All plants (and meats and dairy) contain at least moderate amounts of all nine essential amino acids.
You can read more here:
https://medium.com/@chanapdavis/busting-the-myth-of-incomplete-plant-based-proteins-960428e7e91e
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Having eaten a plant-based diet for some years, one of the most common questions I get is, "Where do you get your protein from?" When I mention the protein sources in my diet many people seem incredulous, finding it hard to believe that plant-based protein can meet bodily needs as well as animal protein can.
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@William,
I’ve been a vegetarian for almost 50 years (a few years ago I switched to Plant Based Whole Foods eating, dropping dairy products and eggs), and I’ve heard that question the whole time. In fact, when I was younger, I worried that my diet was unhealthy.
I’m glad to learn that it may be one of the healthiest, if not the healthiest, way to eat. Particularly because my original reasons to avoid meat were sustainability and environmental. And these remain my major reasons today. Better health is a huge added bonus!
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@William I simply tell them... the same place that elephants, gorillas, and other large plant eaters get their protein - plants.
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@William I have had precisely the same experience. Another person with a variety of health problems is going to ask me if I get enough protein... huh?
As in politics, those who have the least knowledge are the most easily misled.
Eating delicious plants is easy. The biggest challenge is responding kindly and without condescension!
I typically offer a large sum of money as a bet to compare blood work. Shuts people up fast.
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