I find that in additions to the huge destruction we ae going through in these Trump years, there has grown a rift in discourse at the grass roots level. Issues are so volatile that most people of diverse opinions are afraid to express their thoughts.
I think that being able to discuss diverse opinions without fear is a key objective of these youth camps. A wonderful focus and goal.
3
When can we start packing "adults" into buses and sending them around the country, learning how to listen to and speak with people whose views differ from their own? Because that just might be the one thing that can correct this nation's course.
On the other hand, I'm reminded of a report about a camp in Israel, where teenage Jewish and Palestinian kids spent the summer together. By the end of the summer, they were fast friends who were determined to return to their communities and become instruments of change. It gave me hope to see this - until the end of the documentary, when they interviewed those same kids a year after they returned to their respective homes. The lessons of understanding and compromise had been abandoned, and replaced by the all-too-familiar hatred for "the others."
Why is hatred so powerful, and the overcoming of it so much of a challenge? What is it with us humans, anyway?
7
So this is another story about a group of political liberals deciding that they should hear the perspectives of conservatives.
I know another organization with this structure.
Tell me please if there is a conservative group that exposes itself to the liberal point of view.
10
They should have a version for adults as well. A discussion instead of arguing about our differences, learning how and why we feel the way we do in this unexpected reality we all find ourselves in.
7
I hardly find youngsters discussing about depletion of precious resources like oil, water, pollution of all kind, strengthening of basics in all subjects in schools, global warming, utility of mathematics and science, importance of family bonding, ill affects of drinks and drugs, usage of all kinds of plastic and its bad affects on the environment, wastage of electricity etc, which are very essential for their generation to survive and then progress.
It would be better if some organisation thinks in these lines and arranges summer camps for the benefit of youth.
4
Knowledge and understanding will go a long way toward helping this country pull back from the abyss. When I was 15 I had a similar experience on a smaller scale at a National Conference of Christians and Jews Brotherhood Camp, 5 days at a summer camp with a few dozen other high school students who were of different races and classes. I left having lived what my parents taught me: we're all just people who start from and go to different places on the roads of life, but we all travel them together. Learning to be less afraid of "the other" set me up for a better understanding of life. It's simple if not often easy. Their program was probably not as deep as this one is, but the experience is what stays with me after more than half a century and I remain grateful for it. As the late Rodney King asked, "Can't we all get along?" My answer: yes, if we're willing.
6
Excellent. Now make this a 'normal' part of education in school during the year! Also, don't skip the bonfires, arts-n-crafts or kumbaya. Getting to relax, eat 'Smores' and get your 'green on' is equally as important as 'talking heads' time! Get out and breath that fresh air, plant a tree as well as visit our country's north and south borders too!
6
What a fabulous Idea & Opportunity !
As has been suggested our High School's would be wise to have a similar program - perhaps as an alternative to the USELESS Sr. Yr. Trips to Disney(nice for children) & other Irrelevant places.
While this clearly reflected a very homogeneous group -- throw some some of what they learned in (ethnic, gender, religious, cultural, income diversity) it would be even more stimulating !!
2
I hope this article reaches school districts around the country to provide an opportunity to every student and empower them to have an opinion, take a stand for what they believe, and teach understanding for differences in opinion, acceptance towards those who hold opposing viewpoints, and most of all, become understanding listeners, in a world where it seems hate prevails where one holds such strong, unwavering, irrational beliefs. I would want my child to have this opportunity
8
Many of the comments here remind me of a collection of parents in our school district constantly advocating for less reading time in school and more recess. They ignore kids such as myself that despised recess until, at least in my case, I learned to sneak off to the library.
We're not all the same, and "being a kid" takes many forms.
...Andrew
15
Just another college application booster the rich can use. We already know disadvantaged can’t play travel ball, now another roadblock for college. So much for equality.
4
@Shamrock, please drop the pre-determined bitterness and see my comment elsewhere about NCCJ's Brotherhood Camp when I was a kid. As I recall, most of the attendees, myself included (white, upper middle class values but lower middle class income), were there on a scholarship. I will bet that similar opportunities still exist if you look for them. As an old R&B song said, you've got to work to make it work! But it can be done.
2
Do they have a scholarship fund for kids who cannot afford this?
3
@MEH
It says some are helped by donations and others by reduced fees.
I think It Is an experience to consider. Maybe Copy on a smaller scale.
When I was in High school (1953-56) I participated in the Shawnee Leadership Camp in Vermont. aAthough we didn't Meet new ideas in many different places, we met them through talking to each other and the guests invited to lead discussions and activities.
3
So none of the campers identified themselves as conservative or Republican or Libertarian? Doesn’t sound diverse to me.
Didn’t Douglas Brinkley do this with Hofstra students and write about it in the book “the Majic Bus.” That’s has to be 25 years ago and it did have many Jewish students.
1
@Shamrock We actually had a few people who leaned more to the right, and quite a few libertarians and socialists
5
@Shamrock when I took the program there were multiple conservatives on our bus, and some of us came back more right leaning then when we began.
Everyone takes it differently and that’s the point.
7
@Jason
The article didn’t mention any conservatives. It mentioned other political groups. If there were conservatives, why the deception?
Umm I find the whole gun aspect of these comments ridiculous. I mean, gun education would help people learn about guns so they dont end up misusing them later.
I did learn how to shoot at summer camp, and most of those merit badges were about safety. I own 4 pistols, a shotgun, two rifles, and an AR-15 assault rifle today and it was the education I recieved as a child and from my father that allowed me to operate these weapons safely. I've never misused my weapons and I value what a priviledge it is to own guns in our society.
You know who cannot have a balanced and educated view of guns? People who never were educated about guns and make assumptions about guns, the Second Amendment, and gun owners.
As a transgender person who votes Democratic, I fear the uneducated liberal who has never even touched a gun and yet thinks they know everything there is to know about weapons. I had a liberal friend who wanted to repeal the Second Amendment but also realized she was uneducated. She went shooting and realized that guns can be a safe and fun priviledge for an educated citizen, and afterwards she moderated her views to not repeal the second amendment but rather focus on gun background checks, gun education, red flag laws, licensing and reduced magazine capacities. Those things I can get behind, but just thinking all of us gun owners are crazy murderous white men whose only motivation to own weapons is to kill brown people scares me. It's an uninformed viewpoint.
1
@Jacqueline. It is just questioning the need to have a gun. Thinking of a gun as another thing to have in the list of stuff you have when you die seems odd to those of us who handled guns at camp, or heard about military service from our dads and decided guns were not on the must have list.
2
@Jacqueline - You can drone on all you'd like but ANYONE who owns a Military Assault Rifle "has something missing" !
I love this so much! Being exposed to a broad range of ideas is essential to becoming an informed citizen, and these kids are doing it! I hate to see our society devolve into insular tribal groupings obsessed with their own viewpoints and unwilling to engage anyone else.
If I had kids I would definitely send them on this trip. I like how they went to Boulder and Colorado Springs. As a Coloradean seeing both sides of our wonderful state makes me happy. There is just as much to learn in Colorado Springs as there is in the Republic of Boulder!
6
The camp seems to have the feel and look of a club that “challenges” future “shareholder activists” to excuse their actions through abstract thinking. Oh, joy!
2
$5000 - $7000 for camp? And the little guy in the picture is already gesticulating mendaciously like a corporate paperweight.
3
Gesticulating mendaciously?! Don't be coy Coy.
1
Coy, I know that “little guy” you’re referencing and he is an intelligent, insightful, creative and kind-hearted young man—the world today needs more like him—and less of cynical folks who comment without a clue online.
15
At least these kids won't turn out to be Trump supporters -- they are intelligent, curious and open-minded.
6
Oh please these kids are already growing up in a liberal rich house who can pay for a month long road trip. What really cool is the guy who came up with the idea, how enterprising of him
5
Given the daunting challenges of the future (take your pick), empowering the young to build necessary decision-making skills is a no-brainer.
20
This goes a long way to explaining why many prominent Republicans display absolutely ZERO sense of humor. They are taught from an early age to deny their (and our) humanity in service of self-righteousness and sophistry. The late John Bradshaw saw this behavior for exactly what it is: a powerful form of mood alternation that is highly addictive.
9
This is definitely a novel idea for the future leaders of the country. It provides wide exposure to them. However the fee charged appears to be on a higher side. I don’t know whether it’s inclusive of breakfast, lunch, snacks, cool drinks and dinner. Even then it’s around $ 200.00 per day per person for five weeks since these children perhaps be resting in the vehicle only.
@Sivaram Pochiraju I participated and can confirm that this includes hotel fees, snacks, cool drinks, dinners, lunches, and more.
11
@Jason : Thank you very much. I appreciate.
Why don't you let kids be kids? You're only young once. There's something to be said for campfires, lakes and crafts. Summer jobs and summer romances are fun too. Etgar sounds more like summer school. This in a generation where kids are killing themselves in record breaking numbers because life feels like one big resume builder. Back off. There is absolutely no reason to expose a 15 year old to a Utah gun zealot for "perspective." Most kids learn how to shoot guns at summer camp. They can easily decide for themselves when and where guns are appropriate. Teenagers aren't stupid. You don't have to train them in everything. Let them figure it out. That's part of the fun.
9
@Andy Hey Andy, guess what I learned once I had a kid? They are not all alike! Some kids like sports. Some kids like cooking. Some kids like drawing. Some kids like bugs. Some kids like sports AND bugs AND drawing, but not cooking. Go figure. This sounds like a GREAT experience for some kids. Mine would have loved it, instead of the 'typical camp' he went to one year. And btw, "most kids" DON'T learn how to shoot guns at summer camp.
24
@Andy, as a participant on the trip this summer, I can definitively say that this trip did not feel like school. In fact, we did more activities for entertainment than we did for education. We went to amusement parks, interesting landmarks, parks, baseball games, Hall of Fames, mini golf, movies, concerts, the Blueman Group, Capitol Steps, Broadway shows, and so much more. Beyond that, we also had a lot of time to just chill and relax with our friends around cities, on the bus, and in the hotels. In addition, most of us are really interested in the topics we discussed and they are the main reason we went on the trip. Of course we aren’t dumb; we had an opportunity to go on this trip to expand our horizons in order to create our own opinions. Ideas were not “forced” on to us, merely presented so that we could decide whether to incorporate them into our worldview or not.
32
@Andy I think you are one who is not letting kids be kids. I CHOSE to go on Etgar because it treated me as more then just “a kid” but rather a soon-to-adult worthy of sophisticated situations and learning experiences.
The majority of American summer camps don’t having marksmanship anymore, and giving a teen a gun is more dangerous then just talking to someone who is armed and an expert.
21
Talk about knee-jerk reactions, my first thought was that summer camp is the place for swimming, sports, and arts and crafts, we shouldn't mess with that. But my second thought was that this is a GREAT idea! It is exactly the right way to combat the growing polarization in the US. Kudos to the organizers.
26
When I saw the heading, this looked like something that I would want for my son. However, on their website and in most of the photographs in this article, the children are predominantly Caucasian. Is there any breakdown on the ethnicity of their attendees?
3
@NP . In southern CA and in Massachusetts, the one-week Youth Empowered Action Camp offers diversity in staff and campers and focuses on many issues of importance to teens right now and how to communicate them effectively to others.
3
I was lucky enough to take part in Etgar 36 last year. I’ve done sleepaway camps, art camps, and university summer schools, but none of them compared to this program. The bonds you make with your fellow bus-riders are stronger then anything else like it. The trip helped me come to terms with just who I was and choose what road to take forwards in life. The people, perspectives, and experiences I got to enjoy thanks to the program are unrivaled, and the fun I was able to have balances the learning with leisure.
To those commenting that this is not what the summer is about or how it’s “indoctrination,” did you read the article? You meet with BOTH sides, and while there are majorities within the participants, I myself was a conservative.
I hope more people take notes from ETGAR 36 and let their children find themselves politically. It allowed me to move beyond my Local socio-political bubble and see other perspectives in the flesh and not just on the page or screen.
I cannot recommend this enough, and I hope that those who maliciously and ignorantly spammed the comments open themselves to “the other side”
43
My college roommate Billy Planer founded and still runs this amazing program. Despite the headline, Etgar 36 is not a "youth camp" -- it is a life-changing experience that opens the eyes of every teenager who takes part (including my son) to both sides of major issues facing America today, through the lens of history and current events. My son came back a voracious newshound, challenging much of what he reads whether from the left or right. We could all use a dose of Etgar 36. Awesome in every way.
41
I feel very fortunate to be both an alum and a former staffer on this program. For me and my friends, and for the kids that I worked with, it is truly a life altering experience that, for many, makes them interested in politics and aware of the world. It was also just a bunch of fun.
26
If this camp is truly open to all faiths, then the camp needs to update its website, because it is clearly marketed as a Jewish summer camp for Jewish teens. Moreover, it is clearly described as Jewish summer camp for Jewish teens elsewhere on the internet. Why is the New York Times being used to promote a summer camp which is religious and ethnocentric? This article is very misleading.
11
Some students were from other faiths this summer!
10
@dc brent
I was one of the kids of a different faith and I felt fully accepted by everyone else. It was a great experience to learn about other people and religions!
10
Kids should be allowed time to be kids not have their parents send them away to be indoctrinated into their causes,
7
For me at least, the idea of “being a kid” in a stereotypical manner never appealed to me. I also wanted to dive deeper and explore. I never wanted to “be a kid” and goof off or “get in trouble” and some commenters have suggested we should have done this summer.
3
It's remarkable how many of these comments display simplistic, preachy and dogmatic attitudes towards complex political issues, and/or a tendency to jump to biased and deeply stereotyped conclusions about the social backgrounds of the participants in the camp.
Such comments ironically seem to epitomize the narrow-minded attitudes that this camp is intended to fight.
31
@C Walton
Hear, hear! I agree with you wholeheartedly!
1
There is also the grand tradition of Settlement House Summer Camps. Bernie Wohl at Goddard Riverside, Morris Eisenstein at United Community Centers, Southside Settlement House Camp in Ohio, Farm & Wilderness Camp in Plymouth Vermont. Here summer campers of all ages and economic backgrounds live together and learn to cherish differences as the rich basis of a healthy democracy. They have outdoor fun, eat well, learn to cook outdoors and sleep outside under the stars. There are also bus trips that follow the Underground Railroad, The Trail of Tears and walkabouts on Boston's Freedom Trail, even a music workshop at Myles Horton's Highlander Center. Conflicts arise, community meetings are convened and a good time is had by all!
9
Opinions and results can be shaped by critical thinking as much as by ignorance. Outcomes are often even easier to manipulate among the educated than the outcomes to which the intentionally ignorant make their contributions. An important part of all this is, of course, the matter of eliminating unwanted bias. When it is not actively pinned down before the start, the mind will gravitate toward whichever conclusion best fits the factors most strongly asserting themselves in the subconscious.
5
Yikes, the comments so far are relentlessly cynical and judgmental. I thought readers would be thrilled to see more teens getting out and spending their summers engaging with substantive issues from perspectives that might challenge their worldviews.
22
@Michael
My sentiments exactly. What a wonderful idea.
@Michael I LOVE IT !! Don't worry we're out here...
Those kids, mostly white upper middle class liberals are fortunate to be embarking on such a sanitized exercise in self enhancement. Once they are a bit older and after their parents have paid for their expenses at university they can spread their wings and become part of the problem.
9
This might be a good idea, a hint to the rest of the country. I have formed the theory that this political movement by the grownups, the candidates and political parties, to involve young people in the political process with propaganda marketing techniques, beyond what would organically happen naturally in society, is contributing to some of these mass murders perpetrated by young men. Young people aren't equipped mentally and emotionally to deal with the nasty, hate filled, hard ball politics we see in the world today. One could call this type of education advanced civics and the school districts don't even teach basic civics anymore.
4
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus I totally disagree. Young people have always been involved in the political process. Four dead in Ohio.
10
@RMurphy
No, they have not. Not like today. They are essentially being pushed into it. There is a concerted effort, a very strong effort, by the political committees, the candidates, the major top tier political machines to deliberately target and draw kids into the national political arena. It's propaganda and it works. It's similar to how the military recruits teenagers, starting in junior high, to draw them into the military. The tools they have today are much more sophisticated than a few decades ago. They have available to them the entire gamut of their social media activities and personal data to tailor messages to grab their attention, get them excited, angry, indignant about "social injustice", blah. blah, blah. All because they can vote and can be easily manipulated at the age of 18. When I was that age politics was for grownups.
1
There are a number of reasons why more students are becoming more politically engaged. Among them are that a lot of issues are directly effecting me. As a student, I have to spend 5 days a week with the threat of a potential school shooting. I feel the effects of climate change and worry for the future. My generation is going to be the one that lives till they are 40 or 110. It could go either way.
5
But can they make a lanyard?
8
@g - We'll find out some season on Survivor when we see them shivering in the cold rain telling the camera how hungry they are.
1
As a participant on this trip, I can say that one of the topics that came up a lot in discussions was stereotypes, for better or for worse. Specifically, we did a lot of work to try and break through stereotypes. For example, we went to Skid Row in Los Angeles and spoke to representatives from the speaker's division of the National Coalition for the Homeless. Each member of the speaker's division was once homeless themselves. Through these two, and other discussions, we tried to point to the stereotypes that we believed and had and then worked to get past them and recognize everyone's humanity.
I bring this up in response to your comment about a stereotypical camp activity. Why is it that we must continue to perpetuate stereotypes? Why can we not be accepting of other people's experiences and think about how the stereotype impacts them?
For me, I had no interest in going to a traditional summer camp. Making lanyards has no appeal to me, I've done it at day camps before. Other stereotypical camp activities do not interest me.
Rather, I (repeat, I) wanted to spend my trip doing something more than running around. I wanted to spend my summer engaged in something. Etgar provided me the opportunity to be engaged and to learn more. I encourage you and other readers (and commentators) to keep an open mind and ask yourselves similar questions that we did when thinking of summer camps. There was a reason myself and 25 other kids got on the bus. Try and think from our perspective.
10
@anon 2
First, you need to develop a sense of humor.
Second, when I was 14 through 16 I dug new latrines for old folks in the hollows of West Virginia for my church outreach missions. I also repaired roofs and evicted wildlife living in their houses.
Don’t live life so seriously all of the time my friend. You are proving my point.
God bless you!!!
What a wretchedly sad way to spend a teenage summer. One can only hope the kids can find ways (as I did at summer camp) to pervert the best intentions of the camp's petty dictators. Do something naughty!
1
Sounds like you bullied a lot of people at camp, this seems to be an antidote to that.
8
@richard cheverton
We did
1
@richard cheverton
We did
1
When I went to college I was part of a program that was similar to this where each fall they chose a specific set of very hard to square topics, such as nature vs nurture or science vs religion and had a variety of instructors that would dissect the debate from a variety of angles(the school brought the people to us instead of us going to the people like Etgar) .
What I learned from all that is this.
You can argue for or against almost anything and, if you are good at arguing, can make a convincing point. Discussions on most topics don't reveal what's true or false as much as who is better at arguing.
22
@James Jones - Your Clearly missing the point! It's not a debate Team -- All these young people a FREELY forming their own opinions ...
1
'As part of their experience, the campers are encouraged to confront issues rather than people. They are taught to defend their ground while leaving room for different ways of thinking.'
This is spot on, and if we could bring this summer camp idea into our high schools, and colleges we might end up with more thinking human beings And what would happen if we were to have more intergenerational gatherings with various views where civil discussions happen?
30
Im sure the camp is of high quality, and that the kids learn different points of view. That said, this is just one more thing to add to a college resume. If not for the pressure that parents and teens feel to get into top colleges, many of these kids would sooner go to traditional summer camp and water ski. And frankly, who could blame them?
8
@SusanJones
I would agree that most kids would not like a camp like this, but you don’t know my kids, who would love love love a camp like this...and would consider it torture to have to water ski
17
As a participant on this trip, I can say that I have never had any interest in a “traditional” sleep away or summer camp. It is just not for me. While I can not speak for everyone on the trip, I know that at least three or four said explicitly that they had done a “traditional” camp in past years but wanted something different this year, which led to them getting on the bus. In particular, they wanted something more engaging and deep then a traditional camp.
As to the college resume. Yes, we can write an essay about a specific meeting on the trip. But the reality is, when we had conversations about college, no one mentioned or alluded too the fact that they chose Etgar for college resumes. Every once in a while, they mentioned the essay part, but, as far as I could tell (I’m not definitely speaking for anyone) no one chose Etgar for the purpose of college. Most everyone chose it because they wanted the experience and the content of the trip.
1
This is great. Now they need to go swimming and draw cartoons.
They have no visual training beside their iPhones. Doesn't that stress them out?
6
@Sallyforth when I went, we actually did go swimming, and my roommate often sketched during lull periods.
6
@Sallyforth We went to a lot of shows, games, and national parks, if that’s what you’re talking about
6
This is a good news story. The challenge is that one of the core differences between liberals and conservatives is openness to novelty. Liberals have a greater openness to novelty and thus are more likely to expose themselves, and be tolerant of, opposing viewpoints. Durable solutions will only arise if conservatives can find it in their souls to tolerate opposing viewpoints and allow a pluralistic society. However perhaps the magnanimity of liberals will provide a good example for conservatives. I wonder if such a camp could exist to expose conservative children to liberal ideas, and whether any conservative parents would send their children there.
49
@Alpinespider Good point. Liberals are obviously morally superior to conservatives. The only way we're going to save this country is if conservatives can look into their dirty, racist souls (which of course they never will because they're inherently evil) and be tolerant of different people like we are.
Maybe they can take notes from our fine progressive college students, at the best schools in the country, who ever-so-gently shout down (and attack) speakers and professors who have any views to the right of Bernie Sanders.
3
@Gabe is this supposed to be satire?
1
Definition of a conservative. Won’t try anything for the first time. Full stop.
1
Looks great except for that CARBON FOOTPRINT.
9
@mint man Not EVERYTHING has to be scrutinized through the lens of carbon. There's more to life than carbon accounting spreadsheets.
5
@Mark B - Scientists keep saying if we don't count those carbons there will be no more life.
"...during the camp’s meeting with J Street, a pro-Israel lobbying group. One camper said he changed his mind about the possibility of a two-state solution."
That's exactly what a lobbying group is supposed to do.
25
J-Street actually advocates for a two state solution in Israel. He heard their side and he changed his mind on the issue. The trip emphasizes hearing from all sides, no matter their beliefs and, therefore, challenging your own.
17
That first sentence had me roaring with laughter. How can you write such a thing seriously?
A conservative think tank... to learn about income inequality... were they taught how to create income inequality?
39
Maybe they have a camp for adults too.
1
@Jon F Billy does do trips for adults, but mainly on weekends during the year. He doesn’t not do a summer program for adults at the moment, although I’m sure he’s considered it
Able to afford $5 - $7 grand. Isn’t that nice?
As someone who served in New York as a Camp Nurse one summer, how about some wealthy people pitching in and funding some kids to do this that cannot afford that kind of money? There’s got to be some (probably lots) worthy kids out there.
Great experience, but has to be limited.
46
@MIMA they offer a reduced fee/subsidy for kids whose families can’t afford the full fee
12
@MIMA
"Most were able to afford the $5,000 or $7,000 fee for the three- and five-week camps; those who could not were aided by private donations or a reduced fee."
12
@MIMA
My son was able to attend in 2018, with the help of a reduced reduced fee and lots of help from our synagogue and local Jewish organizations.
It was an extremely good experience for him, for his personal development and commitment to engaging diverse people and perspectives and healing the world... tikkum olam
16
Oh these fortunate children. I am filled with wonder and delight that parents will encourage their kids to see many sides. It is expensive but as the article says, there are scholarships and reduced fees and it is money well-spent for our country to have involved and critical (best sense) youth.
45
Lol. All you need to know: "Most were able to afford the $5,000 or $7,000 fee for the three- and five-week camps; those who could not were aided by private donations or a reduced fee. Many of the campers said they were liberal, and a few said they were libertarians or socialists."
11
@Hugh MacDonald Do you want to expound on why this is "All you need to know". What conclusion do you draw from this? Summer camp in general is an expensive privilege.
18
@Hugh MacDonald Seriously, that's all you got from the article? These people could have spent their $5-7K in many ways, including many of the "business leadership" camps that are prevalent and are peddled using the names of their ivy league locations. Then there are a whole lot of "college experience" camps, engineering, coding, arts and science camps. Instead, they CHOSE to spend a significant part of their summer in gaining political awareness and more balance to their world view is insignificant to you? May be, you need to go on such a camp yourselves.
37
@Hugh MacDonald Why is that all you need to know? You joke isn't evident to me. Please elaborate.
5