Black Americans know how difficult it is to organize big demonstrations even for the civil rights movement with MLK at the top and they had and still do have real grievances. It required funding and lots of volunteers to organize a march of thousands of people.
That makes one wonder how so many people can be organized for so many continuous weekend demonstrations in a row. The plutocrats are interested in neo-liberal free markets. They claim to demonstrate for democracy but want free and unregulated markets, predatory capitalism, democracy has nothing at all to do with it.
Trump wants the UK's NHS on the table open for privatization to be part of any agreements.
I don't quite understand this prolonged protest. Are people starving, out of work, or what. Or they just protest that they might not have access to facebook or twitter anymore.
They’re protesting an oppressive dictatorship in a country where the majority is too cowardly or afraid to defy its central government
3
Maybe we should take away your twitter and facebook
2
Brave young people showing high morality against oppressive authorities.
We, Americans, must stand with these brave young people in support of democracy, equality and freedom. They share our values.
And we, Americans, must remember this here at home, too. We can not be the foot soldiers of morally corrupt authorities who tell us to carry out immoral deeds - such as separating families, caging babies, and deporting the critically ill. We shall not be like the foot soldiers under the Nazi regime who carried out immoral deeds just because the authorities "told us to do so."
We must have our own moral conscience guide our actions.
5
There is absolutely no moral equivalence between what the Chinese are doing and anything Trump has done. None whatsoever. That you think there is says far more about you than about Trump.
1
just think. if they had passed that extradition law these arrested activists would be on their way to a chinese gulag right now.
3
"The arrest of prominent activists during sensitive periods is a common tactic by the authorities in mainland China, but such an approach is highly unusual in Hong Kong, which has its own legal system and far greater protections for civil rights."
This is no longer Hong Kong. It's just another city under authoritarian rule in China.
8
China turns a peaceful face to the world to support its economic and political expansion.
The regime’s ruthlessness, however, always remains in the background, emerging when needed to crush any challengers.
U.S. policy makers must approach China warily. Engagement and a degree of accommodation are necessary; capitulation must be resisted.
With respect to Hong Kong, I hope that the world powers stand with the protesters. One country, two systems should be upheld.
6
Every person in Hong Kong, young and old, who have railed against their freedom being taken away, should be recognized as a hero to all of us who value Democracy. I can not understand why emphatic support is not being shown on our own streets for the people of Hong Kong. Social media ‘wishes’ for them to prevail is like sending flowers to an incurably ill person in place of protesting publicly, in person,--for a cure. Perhaps a democracy that has morphed into hate mongering, detaining and confining innocents, encouraging racism, encouraging a contempt for civility and the written law, as well as ignoring the empirical evidence of science, is not the type of democracy the Hongkongers would choose to show them support——anyway.
3
@Wanda. People aren’t in the streets because they don’t care.
@Wanda
Agreed!
Every human has a right to freedom!
Enough with dictatorships and gulags
The world over. The way things are going in the US we should be in the streets too
demanding that trump be removed from office.
3
Just because this is the David and Goliath, just because they are young, just because history repeats itself, does NOT excuse western journalists for not throwing everything behind these brave, inspiring, brilliant young people. History is on their side. My heart goes out to them all.
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@scientella. Actually history isn’t on their side.
1
Double standard China recently asked UN for a special meeting on Kashmir!!!
"Those who spend their time looking for faults in others, usually make no time to correct their own" - AJ
1
I am so proud of the Hong Kong people!! I protest with you. Does anyone know how we can fund this movement?
2
We're anxiously waiting for President Trump to tweet his support for the Hong Kong protesters fighting authoritarianism...
SFX: (crickets)
3
From my head, I support Hong Kong people to protest encroachment from the central government on its democracy. But from my heart, it has been a struggle because of my experiences in Hong Kong. I am a Chinese American and whenever I visit Hong Kong with my white husband, the treatment from the locals is vastly different from when I visit HK with my Chinese relatives (we don’t speak Cantonese).
I see some posts here talking about China or Chinese people don’t understand democracy or freedom. Actually, most western educated ones do understand the principles. I think they may have hard time emotionally-just like me-to support the protest because of how some HK people treat people from the mainland. The hostility is definitely mutual.
2
@RL if you did not live in California, and had no other choice but to live in Hong Kong or Mainland China- which would you choose?
1
Joshua Wong met with the political person at the US consulate in HK. Why? To get more money or how to get the media to promote him? He is an attention seeking fake. Street smart and ambitious. Many people in HK see him very differently from CNN and other media.
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@Elizabeth Wong Not sure he wants the kind of attention he got. But even if you ascribe suspect motivations to Joshua Wong, the goal is valid. Do you think the CCP has altruistic motives? Motivations, particularly political motivations, are a sloppy business. So be it. Democracy is always worth it.
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@Elizabeth Wong
You enjoy our freedom of speech to criticize democracy. The western media is full of CCP sympathizers criticizing democracy. The CCP uses the institutions of democracy to undermine it.
2
@JW Depends on the price. I think the overall focus of the CCP is stability, including the Party's longevity. Through stability, they have to provide for their people. And if you know anything of China's history, there was a lack of stability going all the way back to the end of the Ching dynasty, including when China was raped by Western countries prior to WW2. I prefer that a war not be fought in my home. If you don't mind that type of warfare in your neighborhood, enjoy! But remember what the US did to Syria...how can the Syrians be better off now then before? Imagine those were your friend and family...still worth it?
1
Just because there are people in the street does not make protests progressive, worker-based or for the people’s interests. The Rubert Murdoch of Hong Kong, Jimmy Lai, the self-described “head of opposition media,” has been spending millions to build the movement and giving a lot of media time to the anti-China rhetoric. The real goal is preventing the full integration of Hong Kong into China when the transition agreement between China and the United Kingdom is finished. The United States, the United Kingdom, and billionaires in Hong Kong want it to be integrated into the western capitalist economy and fear China’s state-planned economy. If they succeed, Hong Kong will become a base of economic, military and political operations for the US at the Chinese border, a critical position for the West’s ‘Great Power Conflict’ with Russia and China.
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@Michael Sorensen Perhaps, but it is better for HKers to make their mistakes under democracy (one they can keep if they desire) than under authoritarian rule.
But I could easily argue that having access to the full Internet is worth these protests... better than trying to do the same in China. All those hoops to jump through to get out...
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@Michael Sorensen
Perhaps you would define "progressive, worker-based or for the people’s interests"? Would you also quote from Mao?
To say "Anti-China rhetoric" implies that it is in some way insincere or non-genuine. It seems to me there is a easily accessible, rational and solid argument against incorporation.
Can you imagine a people that would desire to be incorporated into a Communist system like China today? Can you imagine what that would presage for them?
"The United States, the United Kingdom, and billionaires in Hong Kong want it to be integrated into the western capitalist economy and fear China’s state-planned economy."
If there are 'billionaires' there are also millionaires and then likely thousands and millions of not so wealthy individuals who desire independence. I question your use of rhetoric in the presentation of your argument. The US and the UK could very well be on the correct side.
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@Michael Sorensen Thank you for this post. The naivete of those who desire heroism is admirable, but out of touch with reality.
7
This Canadian family supports the Hong Kong freedom fighters.
Today Canada and Hong Kong share a strong bond. Far stronger amongst Canadians than any bond we have with China.
Prime Minister Trudeau is not free to speak on these matters as we have a federal election in October, but he may privately share them.
6
Once ignited the the Hong Konj youth's quest for freedom and democracy can never be suppressed by employing state force. The only way out for China is to accept the reality of one state and two systems.
5
I can't wait to see Trump's comments about Hong Kong's latest suppression of dissent. I am not holding my breathe for a condemnation.
1
The real danger with Hong Kong 'revolt', not speaking about the young students that go to the streets rather peacefully, but about the violent ones supported shamelessly by the western press (and even governments) that may be planning a sort of Tiananmen square effect including 'obtaining' a death 'hero' who can then become the 'eternal flag' for endless 'protests'. I'm pretty sure Beijing has this in mind and it's the reason for a rather moderated response to a clear, at times violent disorder. The West should not push here for another 'Arab Spring' either, Hong Kong has been a really beautiful and prosperous city under China's rule. Independence is an impossible dream.
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@José Ramón Herrera
The two million Hong Kong people who marched recently were not marching for independence.
They were marching to keep in place their own legal system, which China promised to do under the "one country, two systems" agreement.
1
@José Ramón Herrera
When students started demonstrations and revolts in Lybia and Syria it did not end well, as of now we have two failed states.
I doubt that China understands the meaning of democracy, so the HK protesters are practically ramming their heads against the wall by forging ahead with these protests. This is basically protesters' showdown, a sort of kamikaze at the sunset. I feel sorry that they are not able to break out from China's globular grip, but the signs are all there: China's politics has always been cold, controlling and ruthless.
3
@Vivian
Every American who is a democrat stands with the people of Hong Kong. Whatever we can do to help certain organizations who are contributing to the cause. we must sent money,to keep the cause alive Democracy is not going to be destroyed by the Chinese.
If we need to boycott technology companies who are working with the rulers of China then we need to do that.
This should inspire us to work hard at removing Trump
I am glad that our brave celebrities and Hollywood are ready to boycott a state over a bathroom bill but doing business with a regime that destroys human lives? Yup, no problems here. Move along.
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I participated in several protests against the Iraq war. Interesting how little coverage New York times and other media outlets paid to those protests..You couldn't even get a crowd size when they refused to estimate the crowd size during those protests in Washington and New York. It certainly makes you wonder how much the military industrial complex has control over our major media outlets. iI certainly also explains the media's ignoring of Tulsi Gabbard and the fact that she's made the requirements to participate in the Democratic debates and yet she is excluded.
8
@Richard Katz DO.
and nothing about the illegal annexation of the Golan Heights either.
I fail to see any strategy here from the protesters. They live in a province of China with a population of 7.4 million protesting to be treated differently from the rest of China's 1.4 billion citizens. The province borders China (only part of Hong Kong is an island). They can be crushed in an instant and there is no reason why Beijing would not do this in an instant. Shanghai is the financial capital of China; Hong Kong is dispensable. And the people of Hong Kong have no support from the rest of China. They are viewed as privileged elitists by mainlanders. No one will shed a tear. The protesters have zero leverage in this struggle (and I DO sympathize with the Hong Kongers' desire for freedom). They simply have NO leverage here. I don't see a path to winning. Beijing has no reason to be soft on Hong Kong.
So what does a real strategy look like? The Hong Kongers should join with others in China who are working for reform (difficult as that is in the area of Xi). Hong Kong is PART of China. It is China as a whole that needs reform.
And please don't tell me that China should honor its treaty obligations to Britain in maintaining autonomy in Hong Kong. The treaty was always a sham. a way for the British to save face when they returned their Asian colony to China. If Britain cared, they would be complaining about treaty violations. China is no more going to respect the Hong Kong treaty than we have respected the Iran deal.
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@ShenBowen I agree completely. Wonderful kids. But, so little to gain. Only lose. Lose all that makes life in Hong Kong special. Initial demonstrations to make a point with China made sense. Goal was to prevent extradition of charged subjects to mainland China for trial. The numbers mean nothing to China.
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@ShenBowen So "one country two systems" has absolutely no meaning?
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@ShenBowen... you're right. And I'm always shocked seeing the people in Hong Kong treating badly the mainlander visitors speaking of course mandarin. And one young fellow was seen 'protesting' with a British flag in his hands... What's all about here?
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Message to the despots ruling China from Beijing: The residents of Hong Kong are not going to kowtow to your strong arm tactics of intimidation. Once people have experienced democracy and economic freedom, they won't give either up without a fight.
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@paul. Easy to say from the cheap seats.
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@Jackson So you support China and its repressive practices on its own people, or do you support the protesters and their cause?
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@paul Oh how I wish this was so, "Once people have experienced democracy and economic freedom, they won't give either up without a fight."
Seems to me that "we" are giving up "democracy and economic freedom(s)", every day here in the US and very few are even aware much less doing something about it.
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The effects of this bill is already in action. With faux charges and arrests of prominent leaders such as, Hui and Suen, Hong Kong is subjecting it’s people to social exclusion and undue process.
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China is a dictatorship financed by horrible cheap and useless products that has an extremely short longevity with great packaging and lousy content, like a Potenkin facade . We should stop consuming our future and start re-investing in our homeland. China is nobody's friend. I feel very sorry for the brutal treatment these very young men and women are going to endure in the hands of the brutality of the fascist Chinese authority. Start buying AMERICAN or reduce your spending on anything that is not absolutely necessary. Stop weakening America, if you really care.
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Stop buying and manufacturing in the country of our enemy. China is at war with us. We didn’t start it, we don’t want it, but it is war.
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@JG Yes I totally agree with you. Chinese authority does not care about human rights and unfortunately HK is part of its jurisdiction now. It is the matter of time before the PLA march in and slaughter liberty in front of the world.
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@JG Tell that about the cheaper high grade electronics that is made there. In the end price does matter. Many products America has chosen price over quality though. As always it is marketplace that decides. never mind that China also buys a ton of US made products. GM sells more there than in America. That is jobs for Americans. Ask the farmers how those tariffs are working out. are YOU eating enough soybeans to make up the difference that they don't eat now? China is the third-largest market for US goods and services exports.
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It's very embarrassing and shameful to see a old man like Xi trying to crush young people (they are kids, look at them).
One side is a coward with no honour or courage. This cowardliness is made embarrassingly clear to the rest of the world through this side's use of threats, the military and weapons.
Xi is embarrassing China by being a small, small, small human being.
When Xi is gone, he will likely be remembered as an old man who wants to show how mighty he is by stepping on young kids who have nothing. How sad for him!
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@moony 18 is legal age, hardly a kid anymore. When you are an adult it comes with responsibility, is all. A civilised society has laws.
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Not all laws are just or moral. Wouldn’t you fight for your democracy in Canada?
Brutal, militaristic, anti-democracy, fascism has no place in democratic Hong Kong.
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@Lilly: The fact is that Hong Kong IS part of China. There are 7.4 million Hong Kongers facing 1.4 billion mainlanders with one of the most powerful armies in the world. Hong Kongers are disliked by the mainlanders. The protesters have no power. They will be CRUSHED. I value freedom and democracy, but I think that people in New Hampshire should no be encouraging young people in Hong Kong to lose their lives in a struggle that is absolutely un-winable. Fighting for your own freedom when you have a chance is one thing, encouraging others to fight when they have NO chance is another. The world needs to stop cheer-leading the Hong Kong protests, as the world has no intention of providing assistance. We've seen this before, the Hungarian Revolt of 1956.
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Nearly 400,000 Chinese college students are enrolled in US universities. They drink from fountains of liberty. Let’s hope this privilege grants them the wisdom to support those back home who yearn for the same.
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@Mark J Since you don't seem to know any of these students, let me inform you that when they go back to China, they are simply looking to get a job and have a decent life. They aren't interested in politics or changing China. If you don't believe me, take the time and actually have a discussion with these students. I think you will be surprised how defensive they are of China; especially after spending 4+ years in the US.
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@Chris0 I knew some Chinese graduate students in the early aughts. At that time they had their own room to socialize and study in and segregated themselves from the rest of the NYU population. They were so brainwashed and devoid of curiosity about world news it was shocking. NYU's library computer system blocked any Daila Lama site. I complained to an appalled librarian who reported it immediately. Hoping this has changed with a more educated, traveled elite, all very disturbing.
Also, these young people are also protesting the inability to get their own apartments and the astronomic cost of living in Hong Kong. Do not see enough coverage on that. The tipping point has been reached in Hong Kong.
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@Mark J. They’re just here to steal technology before they go back.
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The Pro-Democracy movement in Hong Kong, is deep and widespread. The discontent of the people and fear of full intergration into China will not abate only grow stronger. There will be other leaders that will emerge from these arrests. There are always others with the courage to pick up the banner of Democracy. The desire for Liberty and Justice can never be fully extinguished. These people know that; "Man's capacity for justice makes Democracy possible, but man's inclination to injustice makes Democracy necessary." Reinhold Niehbur
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@Paul Piluso Beautifully written. Words we, Americans, can remember and be influenced by.
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You may want to think about how it would feel to personally risk your own life for democracy.
It’s more than pretty words.
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@Lilly
"We The People" that value our Democracy, have to be prepared to exercise our right of Freedom of Speech, and Assembly to help protect it, not just for ourselves but future generations.
"Those that expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigue of supporting it." T. Paine. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither life or safety." B. Franklin.
1
People yearn to be free. Communist leaders in Beijing can continue to extol the 'workers paradise' nonsense but nobody likes oppression. China is cracking.... they just don't realize it yet.
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Unfortunately, some of the more radical protesters seem to believe that the only way to harming and weakening the central government and Communist Party is by harming Hong Kong first...a nihilistic notion.
China is patient...it thinks decades, not years...not days...as we do in the United States. It will eventually stifle Hong Kong into irrelevancy, and build up its neighboring SEZ. This already started in neighboring Shenzhen.
7
I agree that China takes the long view, measured in decades.
The U.S. would do well to remember this in its dealings with China.
Now we know that when British rule was turned over to China and many people from HK started moving out to Canada - Vancouver and Toronto - they were not alarmist, but realists.
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@BWCA Why did so many then come back to Hong Kong if Vancouver and Toronto are so great? Over 300,000 Canadian Chinese in HK now. They figured out they could make more money in HK than in Canada as well as have a better life.
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@Chris. They certainly blew it.
Update: activists have been released on bail.
Democracy is under attack everywhere. All free people should be concerned.
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@JW
I'm concerned. You're concerned. Lots of us are concerned. Now what?
Other than voting---which is huge---what else can we do? Or should I say, are we willing to do?
Over 30% of the population of Iceland took to the streets over graft and corruption during the bankster created global economic meltdown. We had Occupy Fraud Street.
Sad.
Mrs Lam needs to represent the people she governs, not the people who govern her. If she can't do that then step down.
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@joe As if she has a free hand. She stepping down brings what? Will it somebody even more harsh? Lam walks a tight rope. One bad move and it is pulled back and then who knows. Eventually if this doesn't stop the military will move in. Not that I am hoping for that either but China lets things go only so far. See Tibet and that famous square in the past.
1
@joe That is a fair comment but you also need to realize that we also have a Legco (mini-Congress) that has been in a deadlock since 1997 which is why a lot of the essential livelihood issues have not be dealt with. The British Governor pre-1997 had significantly more authority than the Chief Executive under the Basic Law. A lot of the deadlock is due to the so called pan-democratic party being a "No" party - just say no but not necessary to propose a solution. FYI, Carrie Lam is the 4th Chief Executive since 1997...not a single CE has been successful and given how ungovernable HK people are, I seriously doubt anyone is qualified or stupid enough to want the job. We should just go back to the old system and Beijing should nominate a Governor, exactly the way the Brits did it.
People crack down when their leadership has failed and they are at a loss for what else to do.
9
China can not afford to let dissent continue, to spread, or to be successful in the slightest way. The more successful it is in Hong Kong, the more people in mainland China will want to join in the uprising. China’s entire system depends on complete control of everything and they will use as much force as they deem necessary. China is a merciless country run by a brutal regime, they try their best to disguise it, but you can’t hide human rights abuses. I hope these brave souls are successful in their fight for freedom and democracy, I hope they succeed and their fight spreads throughout the land.
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@Canewielder I would have suggested giving HK back to the British but that ship sailed and appears to be sinking.
2
Actually, people from mainland China are unprecedentedly united.
3
@Canewielder You obviously have never been to China to see the good and the bad of the country....it's just like many countries around the world. The people in China do not support, with the exception of a minority in Xinjiang and Tibet, the protester action or demands in HK...they see these protests as an affront to the unity of the country. Disorder wouldn't spread because you fail to realize HK only has 7mm people and there are 1.3bln on the mainland...HK is just a very small part of China.
4
The attack on democracy in the UK has given the Chinese a certain amount of cover, and they have unexpectedly used it.
2
In June 1991, Yugoslavia sent two armored columns into Slovenia in response to Slovenia's declaration of independence. Anticipating Yugoslavia's move, Slovenia neutralized the tank columns and gained their independence in a ten-day war.
In the urban environment of Hong Kong, Al Qaeda or ISIS would make short work of the police and any military foolish enough to enter in force.
I admire the restraint that the people of Hong Kong have exhibited so far.
4
@NorthernVirginia You think China will act with half measures as the US did against Al Qaeda and ISIS? The Chinese military will butcher everybody. This is the young, the dreamers not some mass movement for freedom. If all were so involved say with an all refusal to work and continue the economy it might be different but that is not happening. Let's rebel on the weekends and back to class on Monday.
3
@JDSept wrote: "This is the young, the dreamers not some mass movement for freedom."
Hmm. Two million out of seven million Hong Kong residents came out to protest. You may be certain that most of the five million who didn't show up also support the protest.
Indeed, the only ones who seem to support the Chinese Communist government of Chairman-for-life Xi are the outlaw gang Triads and the hapless members of military who were positioned on the island.
The Hong Kong police have families in Hong Kong too, and the police would likely turn on the Chinese military if the latter started butchering Hong Kong civilians.
2
These students are demonstrating for basic human rights. China's ham-handed efforts to repress peaceable assembly , and their violent attacks on demonstrators, serve to underscore the students' appeal for fundamental freedoms.
11
Increasingly overt suppression of Hong Kong by the puppet HKSAR government and their Beijing masters, proves the concerns of the protesters about losing civil rights and personal freedom are entirely well-founded.
16
Democracy is overrated and freedom is an illusion. If the fine people of Hong Kong had the quality of life they deserved they wouldn’t be protesting over a side issue like extradition. If they could afford a decent apartment and raise a family on a single income with some time off now and then they’d be back at work.
No. What these people suffer from is the same thing we all suffer from on earth: too many people.
4
@Randy Koreman its not workers that is rebelling. The economy isn't closing down because the workers are still working. it6s rebel on the weekends and back to school on Monday.
It is interesting to see when one believe Democracy is much better a choice, it becomes fully acceptable to support a group of people to subvert the sociaty of another region or country, no matter with violence or not, no matter whether they are minority or not, no matter what will be left to them, chaos, collapse or prosperity. None of the above is of question. Just see those who we had supported in the last decades.
4
@Jimmy L HK protestors were hardly violent. Consider the sheer scale of the protests. We who support the protests are just supporting our brothers & sisters in this life. Short though life may be, it’s still better to live it free.
3
It reminds me the crusade and what people can do to heretics, in the name of what so ever great. The logic here seems to be you should take those I feel right, which is controversial to me. Besides, those reported by the media is selective, of both sides.
@Jimmy L Don't think democracy is better? And we got ours through violence.
There was a democratization movement in South Korea in 1980s. People wanted democratic government over authoritarian one. Millions of people around South Korea, including university students, fought against the governmenet to get their freedom. It was bloody, but we got the freedom we cherish until now.
I just wanted to admire the people in Hong Kong. They kept on going for quite a long time now, and it looks like they aren't going to back off. I'm with Hong Kong; I wish they make it.
I sincerly hope that all Hong Kongers get freedom, they deserve it.
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Actually we don’t have an authoritarian government.
The protesters are anti-immigration, anti-Government, anti- law and order. That is not a good sign for a group that claims the banner of pro-democracy. What about for the majority who would like peace and quiet and not the destruction of the city...? The city is divided. Please don’t fit our situation into your experience. They are not the same.
8
@Andrew You don't understand democracy. With your vote, the government is held accountable. Period.
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@Seungjune
Whether the prosperity of Korea nowadays is necessarily related to democracy, however, remains to be a question. The problem Hong Kong is facing is more about economy rather than politics. Those protestors are de facto fighting for affordable housing and a promising future, though most of them don't realize this.
5
Classic authoritarian crackdown! Ominous portent for Hong Kong's cherished freedoms and democratic openness and accountability. Future not good. Bejing must know of consequences from West. We must hold fast to democratic ideals and respect of human rights. Hong Kongers are democrats, not passive cattle under communist rule!
13
@charlie corcoran Sadly the west has no real response and hasn't for some time. What Happened after Tiananmen Sq massacre ? China was rewarded with trillions of dollars worth of trade. The west is just a dream, more of an illusion.
2
No offense to Hong Kong, but we kind of have our own problems over here.
3
so they broke the laws in hk and are charged and face trial. simple as that. this is contrasted to the many cases where innocent black people were shot by policemen in the us.
5
That oversimplifies the reality of both situations to the point where it is a faulty comparison. Innocent people of color in the US were typically charged with crimes based on flimsy evidence or laws that were targeted to enforce the underlying racist views. China has been increasing its control on HK at an ever increasing rate. They have assumed control of the legal process through limiting choices in the political process. In either case, the question is, are people morally bound by an unjust law?
Sad. At least are following some law. Places like India just pick up Kashmiri leaders and young men and they disappear after being brutally tortured.
7
Emperor Trump is far more an Emperor than Xi Jinping (who has promised “socialism with Chinese characteristics”), and who is, and must be, moving toward social democracy/democratic socialism — while Emperor Trump is targeting entirely toward MEGA (Make Empire Great Again).
Megalomaniac sociopath, Emperor Trump, is clearly trying to become, not just Emperor of America, but the first Emperor of the World — with his attempts already to tell all other countries what they must do — whereas, Xi Jinping looks like a sane and moderate leader of only a single country focused on cooperative investments and development in Asia, Africa, et al.
6
A wise and non-violent way to contain these riots from spreading. Bravo to the Hong Kong government.
6
The actions of China here show why Trump will not win the tariff war with China.
1
For the CCP strategically seeking parity for the Renminbi to the US dollar then Hong Kong is strategic in their plans for that global takedown and to push the USA out of the Asia Pacific region - hence the reason why Trump labelled the CCP a currency manipulator .. for these Rebel children of Hong Kong, they’re fighting for a future for their children .. the geopolitical regional and local goals have now all converged !
And the stage is set .. if the CCP march into Hong Kong to deal with protesters , the people are ready as they have studied the lessons of Tiananmen Square , and then end of the CCP is sealed ( and the CCP know this is delicate geopolitical situation ) .. as the world would impose economic sanctions against China in response to Hong Kong , while the west ( trump team hopes) that the internal China politics will push the Chinese people towards revolution!!
These Hong Kongers are where Europe was with the Soviet Union with the Berlin Wall.
6
These arrests are part of China's "incrementalism" approach to squelching the protests, chopping off the heads of the protest's leadership, and a harbinger of a more aggressive suppression strategy that China's "hard hearted" leadership is implementing. Few governments and political institutions tolerate dissent. And for China, questioning or challenging its leadership or the Communist Party is not something to be tolerated or condoned.
For those who exercise power, whether in the corporate world or in the political sphere with governments, criticism by "protesters" is unforgivable because it sets a "bad" example and can lead to additional dissent and challenges. The overriding game plan by those in power is to squelch such criticism. Witness how here in America dissent is handled with a President calling the free press "the enemy of the people," and critics lampooned with his demeaning and nasty twitters. The game plan does not vary -- that is, control and tarnish the critics, and, if necessary, like our own fearless leader, has urged and shouted: "lock her up!"
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@Martina
I feel similar shudders when such as AOC and the “ squad” are derided, shamed, made to say they “ mis-spoke” when they bring up topics that are off- the-table sacred cows. What is so wrong about controversy and dissent in our so- called “land of the free”?
9
I admire the brave and noble youth of Hong Kong. Persevere and prepare like your freedom depends upon it. The American people are with you!
119
We are in the fight of our lives for democracy and the survival of life on earth, too.
Most of us just don’t seem to know it.
51
"The American people are with you!" There's a comforting thought.
2
@Your Full Name
"The American people are with you" If only our President was too! He doesn't see people he only sees money.
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No wonder Trump is so enthralled with China- there's nothing he'd like better than to be able to throw journalists and Democratic opponents in jail. So much easier than having to defend his own endless incompetency.
The man is no patriot. He's a dictator-in-waiting, and will go as far as the electorate will allow him.
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How long until the apologists for authoritarianism fill these comments? There is no "violence" in the American sense of the word in HK. Those kids well know the freedoms and self-determination that they are soon to be denied. They deserve international support.
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@ally wrote: "How long until the apologists for authoritarianism fill these comments?"
They are paid trolls, actually, employing false equivalences (e.g.: "Trump is a brutal dictator!", "America imprisons children!") and misdirection (e.g.: "The people of Hong Kong are manipulated by foreign money") bizarre paternalism (e.g.: "The people of Hong Kong are spoiled brats."), and too many other examples to categorize.
All of those paid trolls have the same goal: deflect criticism of the brutal dictator Xi who prefers to attack unarmed civilians with a modern military rather than civilly discuss basic human rights. 'Cause if Hong Kong gets its freedom, what next? Tibet? Taiwan? The million Uighurs imprisoned in concentration camps?
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Gotta say.....while I admire them....I also admire China for being so patient.
They would have been arrested a while ago if this was happening in the US and other places.
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@EC The puce in Hongkong hold up warning signs such as “we will charge” and “pepper spray coming” before they actually do it. Name any police in any country that does that?
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The lesson here is clearly that when this much of your population is up at arms, the government is doing something wrong. The unfortunate thing for them is the Brits left them in the hands of Chinese overlords rather than letting the people have a say in self determination. This can'rt end well for Hong Kong.
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I agree that this is unlikely to end well for Hong Kong, absent international outcry and economic sanctions against China. I hope that these will be forthcoming.
The best outcome would be an indefinite continuation of “one country, two systems.”
One historical point: the UK leased Hong Kong from China for 99 years ending in 1997. Other than efforts to extend the lease, the UK had no leverage to secure political rights for the residents of Hong Kong.
The draconian actions of the Hong Kong government, mostly appointed by Beijing, are a graphic illustration of why the citizens of this city trust neither their own government or that of mainland China. There is no tolerance of other views, particularly those of legitimate dissent.
Many in the United States are rooting for the Hong Kong protesters.
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Independent media outlets are exposing who is behind the protests and their pro-capitalist, imperialist agenda. They are starting to change the dominant western narrative. This is critical because it is easy for activists to be drawn into supporting movements that are counter to human goals for social and economic justice as well as peace. Hong Kongers have also been manipulated pawns in the US Great Power Conflict with China. They are advocating against their own interests by seeking what will essentially be re-colonization by the West. If the US is successful, it will not be good for the people of Hong Kong, Asia or the world.
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@Michael Sorensen Hi Michael, the desire to self-govern and maintain one's cultural identity in the face of foreign hegemony are innate human tendencies. No conspiracy necessary to explain this one!
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The democracy movement in HK comes at an inopportune time when flaws in the western democratic system are being apparent. Moreover, the leader of free world, USA, is slowly retreating from the world after decades of misguided foreign policies that drained the treasury and cost thousands of lives.
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@Old Major You may right about the retreating US involvement of which I don't agree, because we are the only "remaining superpower". Whereas for democracy, there is no such thing as a good time or bad time. It is a tool to hold any leader or government to be accountable.
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Why did the West not support Hong Kong residents who protested for control over themselves when the British held it as a colony? If the British had established a truely democratic form of govenrment in HK then at the Handover things would have been vastly different. Largely China is using the laws that the British established in HK to control it.
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When HK was “handed over” to China that was the end of HK as the West or HKers knew it. The protesters are simply in denial that they are now Chinese not HKers. If they don’t agree with China’s governing style then they are late moving because HK becoming no different from mainland China is a foregone conclusion.
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The Hong Kong youths are prawns in the big powers game between the US and China. Of course, there are inequalities and dissatisfaction in Hong Kong just like elsewhere in the world. But it is the US who lit up this round of firestorm in the territory through the usual channels of State Department financed NED, photo-ops of Mike Pompeo with the opposition party leaders. Whether this was done as part of the ongoing trade negotiations or an effort to contain the rise of China, only time can tell.
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@Agostini Dream on. The protests in Hong Kong have absolutely nothing to do with trade wars, much less agitation from American right wingers, unless you're chasing that seductive "foreign forces" unicorn ceaselessly promoted by the CCP.
This is a grassroots uprising, period, and that's what scares the pants off of Xi and his minions.
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@Agostini
It is a local protest. It is the HK territory gov 'who lit up this firestorm' by their actions. Anytime Agostini you can give some real examples to back your extraordinary claims would be useful. At the moment their are no obvious leaders, so no photo-ops for clowns like Pompeo.
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I am so inspired by these young people. The world needs to rally around them. Such courage and commitment. What can I do to help them?
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@Joanna Stelling
I notice that no one has replied to your question. Allow me: Nothing. They are doomed. Just ask 0ne million Uighur's residing in veritable concentration camps.
China is an authoritarian state. Ruled by a President for life. I admire the protesters. But it is over before it really gets started.
These people are inspiring. But China has been waiting for this tailor-made moment to act.
It looks to me like China has selected this moment to clamp down on Hong Kong as a fortuitous one due to the complex distractions of Trump’s trade war and because the Trump administration tends to side with authoritarians over the people that they rule. Trump will gladly sacrifice the people of Hong Kong for the appearance of a victory in his trade war.
I would be interested in some reporting on how the trade war affects Hong Kong economically. Does it push Hong Kong further into the Chinese orbit or does it tend to isolate them from it?
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@AI Hong Kong isn't an entrepot for Chinese trade anymore, so the current uprising is of interest especially for: 1) Hong Kong businesses with significant mainland investments (a fair number of these, and they're sweating bullets--see Cathay Pacific's new Cultural Revolution employee policies); 2) the financial services industry, which enjoys proximity to China while enjoying a functioning system of laws and regulation; and 3) mainland Chinese investors and businesses who rely on Hong Kong's stable financial market to offshore and launder their revenues.
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I think the end of these protests is near. This is how China settles protests. I hope the students will be released eventually and move on with their education and life. They have been brave but it is neither time nor is their will to change things in HK. Take the suspension of extradition as a win and move on. Those of us who sit in our comfortable living rooms and egging these kids to protest are doing a disservice and putting young lives in danger. China is a different country. It is not Puerto Rico where ordinary people replaced a corrupt governor!
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@SridharC What makes you think China is a different country today ?
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@SridharC Established precedent suggests that the students and other Hongkongers who are being swept up by the authorities in a classic mainland-style white terror maneuver will not be allowed to "move on" until they've been tried, sentenced, and imprisoned under the territory's increasingly compromised judicial system. Consequently, there's no other recourse but to continue with mass protests, however bleak the outlook. Hongkongers will never willingly submit to CCP domination.
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@Steve: no, no, no. This is Hong Kong - they have already been released on bail. But you are fixed in your views. You can’t see that this is not the situation you think it is.
Please don’t do the “weapons of mass destruction” thing again. Take off your filters.
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My hope had been that wise leaders on the mainland would discover that Ms. Lam had a terrible cold that required rest and treatment in Hangzhou. Meanwhile, a new, temporary person would be appointed to her job while she recovered. After a decent interval the new person would suggest that we rethink the necessity for this new law given the fact that there were, after all, two systems. Meanwhile, Ms. Lam would be given a promotion, say in Guilin, where the public works department is in need of new management. Among the leadership this would be seen as "taking the long view."
Instead, it appears, that the long view might be more in the nature of Deng's long view in 1989. I desperately hope that I am wrong on this.
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@Jim Walsh
Yes, Jim, Xi Jinping can’t take a heavy position now that he has committed himself and promised that he would allow “socialism with Chinese characteristics”. He’s in for a dime in for a dollar — and in for liberalizing the level of democracy!
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@Jim Walsh Actually, when Ms. Lam is pushed off the sinking ship, it's more likely that she retires to her cottage in the UK. And at this point, there is absolutely no one who would be acceptably compliant with Beijing's wishes (the primary job prerequisite) and simultaneously considered sufficiently credible to Hongkongers. That is, the CCP, with the cooperation of the HK government, has created a situation in which the city is functionally ungovernable without the reforms demanded by the vast majority of Hongkongers. And the Party never compromises, so there we are....
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Establishing order can be achieved by guaranteeing democracy for the citizens of Hong Kong.
The Chinese government prefers brutality and violence.
China is the enemy of democracy.
China is our enemy.
Trump may not be doing it the best way, but we must not depend on China for anything they can use to hurt us or use as leverage over us, no matter how much it hurts in the short term.
This is not our doing, but it is war.
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@notasocialist This president doesn’t “have a set.” My guess is Xi is happy to wait out the president’s tantrum of the day while he plots out his next move. Here’s a key difference between China and the US: China is willing to make its people suffer for the sake of the party, while the leaders in the US, even as “kind of a democracy” now, can’t risk that.
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Another case of pronoun disorder. When you say that China is "our" enemy, to whom are you referring, the United States? That is not possible because the United States is not one body with one single opinion or ethos. I personally would call authoritarian governments my enemy, whether it be the Communist regime in Beijing or the lawbreaking Trump Administration in Washington D.C.
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@notasocialist Personally, I'm glad that American citizens have been put to what you believe is the relative "back burner." Did you know that under Chinese "communist" rule, that 850 million people have been lifted out of poverty? 850 million. More than 2x. the 2019 population of the US. If Americans believe that people are equal, which generally speaking people all over the world do, then shouldn't you be happy the loss of your manufacturing jobs and your IP has meant that close to a billion people have been lifted out of poverty? That doesn't seem like a good trade off to you? Or is it perhaps because you do not indeed one American life as equal to one Chinese life that you feel that it is "unfair" and indeed, a tradeoff that should have never happened...
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