Salvini reminds me too much of Benito Mussolini, he is just "antipatico".
Italy and it's government have long been unstable. The citizens want freebies; they were promised them. The citizens do not work more than a few hours a day for the most part - it's their culture. The invasion, yes that is what it was/is, upset the culture. Seems the NYTimes and many readers think the whole world loves open borders and diversity. Not true; just ask the Italians, or most any other European country's citizens.
Once a great Italian writer (Ennio Flaviano) wrote:
“The situation in grave, but not serious”
This sentence perfectly describes the political situation in Italy. And once again, I must point out that Italy is represented in the world, not by the current miserable political class, but (among others) by Leonardo, Michelangelo, Galileo, Armani, Versace, Renzo Piano, Raffaello, Rossini, Verdi, etc.
12
A tremulous hope in an authoritarian and depraved age. A toast to Italy. and the Italians. Britain’s going down. America is already down. And finally—using perfect legit democratic procedures and a thoughtful “ no” —Italy is almost treading water again. Maybe there is hope for the world after all. Thank you Italy.
2
The agreement between M5S and PD will not last a year. These two parties are sworn enemies with deep, philosophical differences regarding the purpose of government. I think all this unification accomplishes is to further alienate the Italian electorate, driving them ever close towards Salvini.
26
@Brett
I share your concern but would be willing to risk it for a chance of better, more serious governance and a decline of the Lega. 🙏🏻
4
That is exactly what will happen. The smug glee the left has over this is perplexing. These politicians are elected and the left keeps forgetting that.
@Brett It's Italy, Brett. How many coalitions have ever lasted a long time?
Italians are a humane people but totally incapable of self government.
3
This coalition is no great presage for the future in the US. The two parties in Italy cannot stand one another. Hope springs eternal, I guess. But this would not have been the case had the EU been more mindful of letting in so many non-paying members of very poor nations, who were besieged with immigrants, and then the boat people from Africa also put a strain. You can't have change at that breakneck speed.
5
@gmt Oh, my goodness. Immigrants. Boat people. Next thing you know it'll be the Mayflower; and we all know how terrible that was for America. Nothing but immigrants ever since.
9
Italian politics as usual. Ignore all the rhetoric. At the end of the day it's the financial markets that keep Italy from going over the edge.
To start with Italy is not quite the economic basket case it's often depicted as. It has the third highest balance of payments surplus in the EU. There are all kinds of structural issues but Italy seems to be able to work around many of them. This is a country where 20% of economic activity goes unreported because of tax evasion. So their economy is actually far larger than the official number. Yes their debt is 133% of GDP which is outlandish but it's denominated in Euros and two thirds of it is owned by the Italians themselves and is stuffed into the balance sheets of banks, pension funds, insurers and domestic savers. There is no way the majority of Italians are going destabilize all this with the cockamamie notions like parallel currencies or leaving the Euro that have been floated by Salvini's League or the 5 Star movement.
3
In his excellent piece, Jason Horowitz failed to mention that far-right Salvini has blamed certain "powers" for pushing forward the new M5S - Democratic party quasi-alliance. The parties he accuses include the Roman Catholic Church in Italy, on Salvini's watch deprived of the income it receives/snatches from funding for migrants.
It appears that the far right parties of Europe have rallied under the anti-EU banner as a legitimate cover for xenophobic and scare mongering attitudes towards immigrants. The underlying myth is that the EU is a threat to European culture and heritage - the reasons this is an ahistorical myth should be easy to grasp.
In actuality Europeans and their cultures have never been safer than under the EU, as Europe has finally escaped the horrors of nationalism, ethnic cleansing and genoncide that have wiped out countless groups and languages over the past century or two. Only now are regional languages like Basque, Welsh, Suomi, Provencal, Gaelic etc once again in usage on the rise after being persecuted for decades under harsh nationalist and industrial programmes - to say nothing of the Jews who for the first time are free from pogroms and worse. How politicians have managed to succeed in pushing a narrative that western civilisation or regional culture is under threat from globalism and immigration when it has never been safer is a masterstroke. How these claims pass muster is nothing short of a self inflicted amnesia.
6
It is a pity to say, but Italy is a beautiful country for vacationing but unfortunately nothing more nowadays.
It is very troubled country due to cultural resistances to change and innovation, corruption and a ridiculous political environment to just mention a few issues.
Foreign investment is non-esistent, the job market is disfunctional, youth (and not only youth) unemployment is very high and the part of the young (and not so young) cohort which is educated, is forced to emigrate abroad for job opportunities that are not present in Italy.
A real pity. Reading about italian politics unfortunately helps one inferring that the situation won’t improve in the future, but that the circumstances instead will continue encourage the above mentioned disfunctional cycle.
1
Even though we never know what to expect from M5S, and even though it is 7:44 in the morning, I feel like opening a bottle of prosecco. Sanity is back.
5
Stability? In Italy? Surely you jest. Italy is as close to a formal anarchy as any country in the world. They have had over 65 governments in its years as a republic, since 1946. (France has had about as many but functions much better despite it.)
Italians don't take government seriously, even voting down a recent constitutional change under Renzi that would have promoted a more stable system. Perhaps there is an inherent instability in what is a concatenation of dozens of previously independent states. But they should have figured it out by now.
I hope the new government brings Italy back from the brink but it doesn't look to have the ingredients for longevity. Maybe this time my fellow Italians will surprise me but if they keep thumbing their noses when they get in the voting booth, their future is as a failed state.
2
Maybe with Salvini and his League Party out of power, Italy can investigate Putin/Russia's backing of that party. Big bribes are cheaper than big tanks, tanks, or ships--and clearly more effective.
What? You think Hungary, Austria, and Poland are breaking Europe for free?
(And, look at Trump.)
23
@stephen beck
Absolutely right. Nobody (including many Italians) wanted Italy, which sits in middle of the Mediterranean like an huge air carrier, to fall under influence of a pro Putin Govt.
Syria and Libya are still two "hot spots" and Italy is crucial for the control of Mediterranean; despite common believe, Italian Navy and Air Force play an important role in patrolling and controlling a good portion of the area. Especially since the US turned its back to it, concentrating more on the Far East .Possibly a gross geopolitical mistake which was initiated by Obama.
The unwelcomed endorsement of Trump to a second Conte Govt. in order to finish his the mandate should be read under that light. Beside civil liberties Salvini was threatening Italy well established role within the Atlantic alliance.
10
@Celeste Thank you for that. Had no idea and now feel much better informed.
@stephen beck
Good point. I am fairly convinced PiS in Poland is ridden with Putin backed spin-doctors and agents. It is no coincidence that all this "far-right" movement started cropping up all of a suden all over the westen world. We need mccarthyism to jail and punish these traitors to the Western values. We cannot afford a rouge, corrput country run by secret service and mobsters to overthrow the world of freedom and order. We should also strike back and take the war to their people using the very same tools. Time to overthrow tyrants.
Can’t see much hope for Italy, regardless, which hasn’t competent leadership since Diocletian. But perhaps this could be an example for anti-Brexit Torys, Labor, and Liberals to unite against similar dictatorial moves by Boris Johnson and prevent the UK from becoming a banana republic with no bananas.
8
Trump personally supports the deposed right wing leader who failed (Salvini).
Big surprise.. yet again Trump openly supports a right wing nationalist with a "whites only" agenda.
AND.. yet again... Trump loses.
Best of luck and good wishes to the Italians..... I think they may have turned a corner away from neo-facism. Politics in Italy has always been volatile, but at least the Italians DO learn from their own history.
11
People vote. When the elite decide they know better than the voters we end up getting even more extreme results in the next elections. Mainstream Italian political parties lost the war to win this battle.
4
@Willt26
That's exactly what I was thinking. By immediately linking with an establishment party they had constantly bashed for years on end to stave off a snap election, they have only worsened their standing among the populace for the inevitable next vote. Also this government will be pitifully weak and Salvini can bash their ineffectiveness from the sidelines now, swaying votes to him. No wonder he made that 'risky' snap election call. This is a win-win for him.
@Willt26 Thank you! I thought I was going crazy reading all these comments about Salvini, Putin and Trump while ignoring the core of the issue... The League (and Salvini) would have wiped out Five Star in an election. They formed this coalition to avoid a vote, a vote which would have gone in Salvini's favor.
Salvini is popular and his policies have the support of Italians so forming a coalition that undermines him and The League isn't going to end well for Italy because unless this new government continues with Salvini's policies Italians are just going to get angrier and angrier and then the EU will have real problems.
1
Each development in Italy's political life must be evaluated in terms of, What does this mean for what comes next?
Five Star has compromised with the party it defeated. Now the League is left out of power, but also left out of blame for whatever comes of compromise with the recently defeated.
This could be pushing the right wing not out of power, but into power on the next turn of the wheel. Italy is like that. No government lasts long. That is because none is really successful on its own terms.
1
@Mark Thomason "Each development in Italy's political life must be evaluated in terms of, What does this mean for what comes next?" JUST IN ITALY ?
8
Italy is always interesting.Since the end of the Second World War,there might have been over 60 governments.But the number of government has not stopped Italy from becoming an economic powerhouse and a world-leader in many industries.
The last Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte is back again and the hardliner Matteo Salvini is out. That was not what was supposed to happen.Interior Minister Matteo Salvini had calculated that by bringing down the government, there would be elections,which he would win easily. But the plan never worked out.
Salvini never imagined that Prime Minister Conte and the Democratic Party(sworn enemies)earlier would get together and form a government. The impossible happened as the unpredictable always happen and Salvini is out on the sidelines screaming powerlessly.
Italy has a government which other Europeans expect it to be less radical and less anti-Europe than the last one.If the new government works, then they have three and a half years .In that time,they hope Salvini could be reduced to the margins.
Immediately,there will be a moderate government in Italy, which had experienced a very hardlined, unpredictable government for the last 14 months.This itself has given relief to the European establishment.Further, the fall of Matteo Salvini also brings about a feeling that maybe populist governments in Europe have had their best days in the past. But we have to wait for the future, as Italian politics show that "unpredictability is very fertile ".
7
Italy is always interesting.Since the end of the Second World War,there might have been over 60 governments.But the number of government has not stopped Italy from becoming an economic powerhouse and a world-leader in many industries.
The last Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte is back again and the hardliner Matteo Salvini is out. That was not what was supposed to happen.Interior Minister Matteo Salvini had calculated that by bringing down the government, there would be elections,which he would win easily. But the plan never worked out.
Salvini never imagined that Prime Minister Conte and the Democratic Party(sworn enemies)earlier would get together and form a government. The impossible happened as the unpredictable always happen and Salvini is out on the sidelines screaming powerlessly.
Italy has a government which other Europeans expect it to be less radical and less anti-Europe than the last one.If the new government works, then they have three and a half years .In that time,they hope Salvini could be reduced to the margins.
Immediately,there will be a moderate government in Italy, which had experienced a very hardlined, unpredictable government for the last 14 months.This itself has given relief to the European establishment.Further, the fall of Matteo Salvini also brings about a feeling that maybe populist governments in Europe have had their best days in the past. But we have to wait for the future, as Italian politics show that "unpredictability is very fertile ".
4
Hopefully Europe, and soon the US, have started to regain their sanity!
6
Don't compare us with the disaster of a government you have, we're light-years ahead of you.
1
" It is not difficult do govern the Italians, it's impossible"
Unfortunately these were the words of a dictator...Mussolini, however, there's a lot of truth to that.
2
"With their power and well-paid government jobs at risk — and their feelings hurt by Mr. Salvini’s betrayal — Five Star leaders instead opened talks with the Democratic Party, which only days earlier they had suggested was the party of Mafiosi, corrupt elites and kidnappers."
Trump's buddy in Italy and their version of our GOP.
3
This is what Bernie and Warren should do to defeat Biden and Trump...
1
@Jason oh. what should they do? elect Sr. Conte?
1
@Jason
This is the sort of deal Bernie and Warren should do WITH Biden to isolate and defeat Trump. They'd do better to avoid ranting against "neoliberalism," and instead play to the broadest possible base, emulating FDR.
3
Whew, the boot avoids a modern day Mussolini.
3
It is wonderful to see Italy trying to reassert itself as a strong and sound member of the EU and the G-7. Meanwhile, Boris Johnson, aided publicly by the Queen, is doing his best to drag Britain out of the EU, to weaken its economy and to jeapordize its continued presence in the G-7.
Who could have imagined these developments even last month?
14
Italy is a pretend power that doesn’t belong in G7 anymore, neither does Canada. Kick these two and bring in the Old (and new) powers, China and India.
@Thought Provoking To be brutally honest I would have gone with Groan Provoking. Explain why Italy - strategically and geographically vital to the policing of Europe if nothing else - and Canada (a fully developed economy and globally engaged political entity) should not be in the G7. An argument please, not an unsupported statement. And you do know the membership of the G7 can expand to include new countries, yes? No need to kick anyone out for others to join.
5
@Thought Provoking. The G-7 is designed to contain the seven democracies with the largest GDP. Italy and Canada belong. If the UK maintains its current suicidal course, it may soon have the weakest economy in the G-7. It would be quite ironic if India replaced it.
3
Salvini was and is a major threat to liberal democracy as we know it. A political ally of Orban, Bolsonaro, Bannon, and Trump he is committed to undermine the European Union and implement a post-democratic regime in Italy. Critics have noted that fear of Salvini may not be sufficient to hold together a coalition government whose parties cordially hated each other until few weeks ago. That is certainly true, but we should not forget that the Italian Republic was founded by an anti-fascist coalition that held together Communists, Socialists, Democratic Christians, Liberals and even monarchists. The question is whether the Democratic Party and Five Star will be able to rise to the occasion and understand that their historic role right now is not only to restore normal relationships with Brussels and other EU nations but to draft a new type of social contract which can combine the strong pro-welfare orientation of the Five Star with a strong case for the end of austerity within the EU. Of course this is more easily said than done in a country with zero growth and the 4th largest public debt in the world. But the Democratic Party can regain a role only if it will be able to argue for an expansive budgetary policy at the EU level.
30
@Marco
Salvini with Meloni and Berlusconi would have ended demicracy in Italy, pulled Is out of Europe and returned us ti the Lira. Salvini was already to put razowire on the border with Slovenia.
And nobody noticed It but his "security" laws limit the right to protest along with curtailing immigrants.
3
As much as I think it's short-sighted to leave the EU given the tremendous economic benefits, I can understand why some parties are inclined to leave as well.
I would think too many new members have been added too quickly with less than optimal consequences. You know, Brexiteers are not wrong to vent frustration at the fact that 18 EU states are non-paying members. Also, there has been an exodus of citizens from Romania - the EU's poorest member. Ideally, the enhanced trade and investment flows from being in the common market should help Romania bridge the development gap. Why is there an exodus?
This can genuinely strain the welfare systems of other member states. Is it fair to citizens of host countries that their access to health services gets more limited? Do countries not have a sovereign right to regulate inflows of people? There is a fine line between an economic migrant and a refugee. An economic migrant is not fleeing a war or persecution, but simply seeking better economic opportunities.
Many of the poorer EU members are actually seeing fast growth -Poland has been the fastest-growing EU economy for some years now. Maybe the development gap must be allowed to level more before granting labour mobility to citizens of these newer members.
It sounds harsh but might make the European Project more feasible in the long run.
43
@Jack
Q: Is it fair to citizens of host countries that their access to health services gets more limited?
A: In fact, EU migrants are disproportionately young, childless, healthy and of productive working age. Yes, Italy does get entire families of Roma who travel in from Romania, more so than, say, the UK, but this does not alter the fact that, overall, these E.U. arrivals make far lighter demands on the health service than the local population (which is aging). In fact many Eastern migrants disproportionately serve in low-paid eldercare roles that Italians refuse. Overall it’s a net benefit to Italy, albeit a brain drain to Eastern countries.
Q: Do countries not have a sovereign right to regulate inflows of people?
A: Indeed they do, and all E.U. Member States have the right to repatriate migrants who fail to secure employment after a certain number of months. The UK declined to avail itself of this right, hence fuelling the xenophobic Brexit vote, but other EU countries do apply it. Generally speaking people migrate to where there are jobs that otherwise go unfilled.
37
@Jack you misunderstand the nature of the EU. Many members joined with living standards well below the EU average - one being Ireland, another Poland and, in the early days, Italy. The convergence to EU standards does not happen overnight and varies considerably from place to place. Mobility of labour is a key to this: do you not think that the current economic growth of Poland may be linked to its ability to send its labour surplus to the EU, then for these people to return as the Polish economy improves? Brexit has led to the suspension of democracy in the UK; the Italians are lucky that their parliamentarians have more sense.
25
@Jack, Brexiteers may be frustrated but it was UK that was the most supportive member and instrumental in EU enlargement with Eastern European countries.
6
I define collaborative leadership as facilitating the mutual enhancement of those working together for a common purpose. A part of collaborative leadership is bringing people from problem stating to problem solving. Perhaps Giuseppe Conte will be more of this kind of leader than the typical positional leader in politics.
In a general sense, leadership can be described as the capacity to move a mass of critics into a critical mass. Italy has too much of the former and too little of the latter.
2
Perhaps, just perhaps, during the last three decades, the EU, rather than should have concentrated on better economic integration among its then member countries, rather than breakneck expansion towards the East. Now, it seems the chickens are coming home to roost....
Henri
38
@mhenriday Losing control of its currency, the lira, has seriously hurt Italy. Also, offered no help by the Union in rescuing the thousands of boat people fleeing Africa for years before the current crisis, made them question whether the Union was of any benefit to them. I would like to see Matteo Renzi re-emerge.
14
@Cca
Replacing the lira with the Euro brought stability on the monetary side, forcing some discipline in policy-making. Unfortunately the government was left in control of fiscal policy with deficit spending a tempting option.
10
Those lucky Italians!
Our only hope is to vote a Democratic Senate in so that The United States can make progress. I'm remembering when it was going to be the good Republicans who love our country who were going to keep Trump in check. Guess they loved power and money more
19
Par for the course in Italy. Italy has a history of unstable, short lived governments. I wont be surprised if the avg life is 2 years since WW2. Italy has a declining population and on the way to having a second lost decade.
Italy on its own is a tiny economy thats not gonna compete with the likes of US, China and India. Italy is better off with EU and could sit at the high table with the Asian giants and US, as part of EU. The sooner Italian leaders realizes this the better for its people.
4
Surprise surprise ... Italy has shifted gears again . A few years ago I asked one of my Italian cousins to explain their politics . His response ( the CilffNotes version ) was as follows ;
" Italy ruled the world for a good 3,000 years with the Roman empire ( setting the standards held by multiple countries and civilizations to this day )... and it failed ... then again for several hundred years with the Holy Roman empire ... and it failed ... then influenced the world for a couple of hundred years with the Renaissance ... and it failed ... then tried to take over the world again with Mussolini ... and it failed miserably ... then came back in the 80's influencing the entire world of fashion and design for a decade or so ... and it failed . So now Italy sees politics and influence as ephemeral at best .... knowing all too well in the end it won't mater . Therefore Italian's have reverted to a nihilistic zeitgeist and their politics have become what can best be described as a mildly controlled chaos verging on anarchy .. that occasionally resembles a democracy ... and is destined to change its leader and politics quicker than most people change their socks for decades if not centuries to come "
e.g. In summation ... in the Italian mindset ...taking the words of Ecclesiastes to heart .. it simply does not matter .
Hmmm .. with TrumpFatigue setting in across the land .. perhaps that's a bit of wisdom we in the US would be wise to adopt .
6
"Populism" being a dirty word here? A reader might get the impression that until recently, Italian elites and the usual banking suspects were doing a great job governing Italy....
As for that "enormous debt", one might alsoask, how is German austerity and its budget surpluses working out for the rest of Europe? And now, for Germany itself?
The last 11 years, as dictated by Germans, were great? You know those negative interest rates?
5
This dynamic with obviously different actors CAN happen in the US. Wnen reasonable and mature people unite to take on Trump’s destructive egomania... and set the government back in a healthy path towards growth and leadership that truly speaks for the true american values...
I certainly wish this takes place soon!! 😊
7
Bellissimo!
5
Good
5
It looks as though some semblance of 'normal' may be seeping into this beautiful country. It deserves better. Best of luck though, you (Italy) will need it.
26
Best of luck to Mr. Conte and his coalition.
I am glad to learn that Salvini has encountered a setback.
36
With his overweening hubris, Salvini gambled and lost Couldn’t happen to a “nicer” guy.
21
There is an Italian saying: "Tutto Il Mondo è Paese"; which translates to "The whole world is [like my] country."
7
@Sagredo Not accurate my friend: it is "tutto il mondo e un paese" Which is "the whole world is a town"... (everywhere is the same)
11
Thank God....
Salvini is a weak, ineffectual leader who's only "idea" is to vilify immigrants.
Good Riddance to a bad 'leader'.
49
@Paul P.
There is a difference between 'immigrants' amd 'migrants'. I though you knew that.
3
Some strange phrasings in this article, such as "[the coalition] still includes a strong dose of the populism that stoked concerns that Italy, burdened by enormous debt and zero growth, is a precarious political climate for foreign investors and an inhospitable place for its ambitious and talented youth." Italy IS a "precarious political climate for foreign investors and an inhospitable place for its ambitious and talented youth," but this has nothing to do with so-called populism. Italy's sociopolitical rot began long before "populism" became a dirty word for centrists everywhere. It in fact began with the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992. Since then, Italy's economic growth, which had been dynamic, has averaged less than 1%/year (0.7% to be exact). Before Maastricht (from 1960 to 1992) Italian economic growth averaged 3.8%/year. This nosedive in economic growth isn't accidental. Italy doesn't have a "populist" problem, it has an EU problem, and this new coalition will do nothing to confront these issues.
2
@Lotzapappa
"Since then, Italy's economic growth, which had been dynamic"??
Sure at the expenses of public debt that in fact, in the 80s exploded from about 60% of GDP to over 120% of GDP in those 10 years, and we never recovered...
I am sorry Sir, the EU and the Euro are not the culprits here, the culprits are the horrible politicians (Craxi first of all) of the 80s who allowed and in fact encouraged a myopic explosion of the debt for electoral benefit
7
@Lotzapappa The centuries long vast and entrenched corruption of Italy's political class and entire social structure has nothing to do with it? Italy's unforeseen and ironic problem on joining the EU was being held to account on trade, movement of money and anything else were valid paperwork and bank statements had to be furnished. Instability is built into the system to the advantage of a few and the despair of the many: more than 60 governments since the end of Wold war II. Blaming the EU is a dodge, as I rather suspect you know.
8
@john lyttle Italy was just as corrupt, and probably even more corrupt, from 1960 to 1992 as it was from 1992 to present. If corruption is the problem, why did it not hold Italian economic growth back in the earlier period? For a very detailed examination of the Italian political-economic problem, I suggest the Dutch economist Servaas Storm's, "Lost in Deflation," published earlier this year. It's an eye-opener.
And this helps explain why and how Italy has had 60+ new governments since WWII.
17
@JHL27
It is the United States that is most in need of a new government. At the moment we only have Trumpian chaos brought down on us by the Republicans. Toobad we can't do what the Italians do when needed.
18
@JHL27 And avoided what we didn't.
5
@JHL27, So please explain the electoral college before you criticize the way Italy conducts its politics. The U.S. is one of the least democratic systems today. Look at your government today.
23
Italy, burdened by enormous debt and zero growth, is a precarious political climate for foreign investors and an inhospitable place for its ambitious and talented youth.
Depends where you live in Italy.
7
@Martin. Not really. Earning potential here is staggeringly low throughout all of Italy. The North is now full of Southerners and the Northerners no longer live in Italy. Milan is doing better than Rome but there are no Milanese left in Milan. They all live in Paris or London. The average salary is 1300 euro/month. That is not a living wage. The Italians conduct business like 5 year old children. Customer service is an alien concept and they only want residents to be able to invest (that's a recipe for success, not). It is so bad here that they require an Italian social security number to join a gym, for a week.
14
@Martin
Italians can manage with or without a government just fine. This whole thing is blown way out of proportion only because criticising others make you feel easier to forget your own problems.
For instance a $22 trillion (that's TRILLION) debt, an inexcusable level of inequality, a crumbling infrastructure, a deadly gun culture and a political class that cares only about itself.
Start there.
9
@Martin
"Italy - enormous debt - inhospitable place for its youth"
Reasons why millions of Britons voted to exit the EU. Why be tied to a country with such disadvantages? Britain has enough problems of its own.
1
That's what a democracy looks like.
13
@mons
Sure. And Johnson prorogues Parliament in the UK, so that he can pull a no-deal Brexit out of his hat. THAT's what 'democracy' looks like.
What a farce.
3
@mons 67% of Italians wanted to vote so no thats not what democracy looks like.
Maybe, in this case, all of our roads will lead to Rome. Enemies find common ground and a semi-popular, nationalist politician is outmaneuvered.
11
Salvini brought this on himself by betraying his own coalition. The Democratic Party should never form another government with anti-migrant League.
5
@David
I'm sure Salvini will take your advice and repent. NOT!
@David The Democratic Party has never formed a government with the League.
6
Salvini needs a vacation, and gets one.
10
Matteo Salvini continues to be very popular. The marriage of convenience is likely to be no more than a one night stand. We will see an emergence of Salvini very soon.
15
Ah Italians. This is par for the course. Tell me how many PMs they have had since WW2? I bet it is larger than an entire football team(offense,defense, special teams and their 2nd and 3rd backups).
A country that is rapidly losing population and is on the way to having a second lost decade behaves like it is a super power in waiting. Italy doesn't even belong in G7 anymore. Please give your seat to worlds third largest economy, India.
Italy has no future without EU. A tiny Italy isn't gonna standup to US, China, India or Russia. Italy is better off being part of EU which is as big/bigger than the NEW big 3(US,China and India).
6
Have you looked at a map of the world?
The Italian Peninsula is still a major trade center on the Mediterranean, sitting at the center of south-western Europe, the Middle East and North Africa - and a lot of bulk cargo, including oil and Liquified Natural Gas still passes through its waters, and gets traded there.
It’s no longer at the hub of the trade world - the place from which the Plague of the mid-1300s was dispersed, through the trade routes, into Western Europe.
But it is still an international power.
2
@Thought Provoking "Tell me how many PMs they have had since WW2? " Are you suggesting they were better off with a"stable" government and only one "duce" before the War?
5
Think outside the box. Trump does, so can you.
Let us offer to buy Italy!! We can afford it.
I thought of it before Trump and will be announcing my candidacy now that Moulton has faded.
Let's not be too jubilant before the day is gone. Salvini may be sidelined, which is worth celebrating - for now. It remains to be seen whether, and how, Mr. Conte can hold this new coalition together. 5S and PD might hold on for the time being. Meanwhile, I won't rule out elections within a year, with a victor called Salvini...
Next week there are regiobal elections in Germany, ib Brandenburg and Saxony. The right-wing AfD may well miss its target of becoming the strongest political party in both states, given recent poll results.
I hope that people see through the blatant lies of right-wing wannabe Leaders.
Another round of fascist rule is the last thing anyone needs.
33
@Edgar
Salvini is not Fascist, nor is the AfD. Both grew out of the complete and abject failure of the so-called 'liberal democratic system' which is neither liberal, nor democratic.
12
We have that type of rule in US snd Britain. It’s the fashion of the coming decade and always leads to war.
3
The Cinque Stelle abandoned the Italian people and all decency when they lined up with the extreme rightist Salvini. Have they seen the error of their ways? We can only hope so.
15
The far right didn’t sweep the EU elections as they hoped for. The young in particular turned out. Matteo Salvini’s League was of course a source of concern – the first time the far right has come out on top in an Italian election. This new government sidelined him. Finally common sense.
I do hope the people of the US use their common sense in 2020 and start healing!
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@IJonah "I do hope the people of the US use their common sense in 2020 and start healing!"
And that will save Italy ?
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@kenneth
We need US leadership to save the planetary ecology, which, yes, includes Italy (and the Netherlands for that matter). Only with US leadership we can bring Brazil to preserve what's left of the Amazon which would constitute a vital saving grace to every single country in the world. Only a blue US supermajority would significantly change carbon output course, refrain from depleting and destroying reserves like the Alaskan rainforests, and lead an international effort to close the tax havens while reversing the current fast track to bankrupting the world's economy with ballooning debt and trade wars gone mad. Italy is still a zombie economy mainly because of the US engineered Financial Crisis, threatening and burdening the entire EU.
What happens in US elections is actually way more crucial to the Dutch and Italian fate than what happens in our own (I'm Dutch as well) elections.
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@kenneth might help to have more stable global economy!
In many ways I wish the League and 5 Star would have stayed together but this was a calculated risk taken by Salvini that I think will pay off in the end. Even some of the rank and file 5 Star are expressing opposition to a coalition with the Democrats and there are elements of the PD not too keen on a coalition with 5 Star.
The wind is at Salvini's back because Italians have had enough of the Left's dominance for so many years and want change. Italian youth can barely find jobs, the country's tax bitw is way too high, and they are tired of seeing Rome be subservient to bureaucrats in Brussels. The EU is working exactly the opposite as it was intended and Italy's revolt against the European Union is the latest salvo against the bureaucracy.
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@AZRandFan
May I remind you that it was berlusconi that plunged Italy into an economic crisis, and not the left
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@Paolo Cirrincione
Say it louder for our friends in the back!
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@AZRandFan. Italy does not understand it is a European state, and the rewards you can reap from this position. Italy is no longer Italy but unfortunately, the people here are racist and refuse to let go of their antiquated identity. They make it impossible for anybody without an Italian passport to buy anything, from a car to a house. This is not the recipe for financial success, but they refuse to learn. And yet everybody you meet here dreams of going to New York and never coming back.
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I just want to point that in the Italian Constitution there is no such a thing as a "prime minister" but only a "President of the Council of the ministers", ie this figure fosters and coordinates the ministers. The difference with the British prime minster is important.
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Politics is the art of making coalitions, especially in Italy. By always being in campaign mode, and firing at all other parties, including those in his majority, Mr Salvini succeded in uniting his opponents against him, he now pays the price.
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@SJP right read Steinbeck's Short and Merry Reign of King Pippin to learn about coalition government.
Best wishes for the people of Italy; they deserve decent government from people who will put their interests first.
Populism is getting a bad rap, but that’s because it comes in two flavors: inclusive and exclusionary. Both are fueled by dissatisfaction with the status quo, both want change - but the variety that springs from conservative roots is essentially destructive.
It feeds on fear and resentment; it thrives on division. It looks for scapegoats to blame for its failings and to justify terrible policies. It is a tool for authoritarian leaders to turn their followers into a mob - people who follow orders and don’t ask questions.
The other kind of populism brings people together to solve problems, not just cast blame. They seek common ground - and hold their leaders accountable in exchange for their support. It’s about leaving no one behind, and everyone having a chance to participate in building the world together.
One is easy - the other is hard. One builds walls - the other builds bridges.
Don’t get this wrong Italy. The U.S. could use some good role models these days.
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@Larry Roth
I see Bernie Sanders’ version of populism as constantly seeking common ground, for the common good. He has an uphill climb, but is gaining, thanks to a great grassroots organization. The corporate DNC leaders and popular press talk a good game, but I believe they would rather continue with Trump than have a more fair economy.
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@Ellen I do like Bernie. But I have a hard time understanding what that has to do with "sidelining Salvini."
One hopes this is the political pendulum beginning to swing back again, as far left as it went far right in 2016.
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Finally the first domino to fall! Out with Trump - vote blue no matter who.
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@Harry Now Harry, do you really believe that sidelining Salvini spells disaster for Trump?
@kenneth Its getting close to that for Trump, pay attention.
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@kenneth Harry is clearly making a point about what might be the beginning of the end for the far right globally (Bannon advised Salvini as he did Trump). What's so hard to comprehend?
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I hope this presages Boris Johnson and Donald Trump also getting the boot.
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In a few months Trump and the Republican Party, if it can be called a party, more of a cult, will also be sidelined in a most decisive manner. We have all these pundits, the same ones that prophesied Hilary’s victory, claiming this embarrassment will be tough to beat. Total nonsense! It will be landslide for the dems, with a few surprises, no matter who the candidate is. The people have lived through the tumult and chaos of this unstable man and have had enough! What happened in Italy is just the beginning, all these wannabe dictators will “fold their tents and silently slip away,”, to quote Longfellow.
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@glen Dream, baby, dream ....
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@glen
If we live in a Multi-Verse it will surely happen in one of the versions of the Universe but in the one you typed that post in it will never, ever happen the way you think. Ever.
As we watch Trump slash and Trump's Brazilian friend burn the Amazon on the alter of his ego - I am gratified to see any containment of the contagion of far right nationalism.
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@common sense advocate 'Trumps Brazilian friend burn the Amazon?' Brazil has been burning the Amazon for decades, as has Peru and Ecuador. And now this is happening because of Trump, or climate change? No doubt the burning of the Amazon, along with many rain forests for palm oil, is changing the climate. But to say it's Trump's fault is nonsense. The world and it's history are older than the Trump presidency.
Delighted with Salvini's being side-lined. He was Italy's version of Trump, Orban, Bolsonaro, and a poor man's Mussolini. Eager to see how all this plays out and Trump's earlier impressions are now making him less and less appealing.
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@Russell Manning Actually, Mussolini WAS the "poor man's Mussolini." That was the idea.
The only fact that Salvini has been sidelined and Conte could be again the PM gives me a cautious sense of satisfaction and some hope.
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Ridiculous and shameful: the last week has been the most embarrassing period in Italian democracy.
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@Andrea Vellano I would argue that the last two years have been worse. A rosary kissing sociopath who watches ships of refugees sink in the Mediterranean, while invoking the sacred heart of Mary...and then of course we have the Bunga Bunga years which seem quaint by comparison.
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Hopefully the start of a trend. These alt-right types need to be shown the door, both domestically and internationally.
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@Markymark Only the people are entitled to show the door or the command's cabin !