Nuh, I will just keep mocking them. They are funny. And way over-the-top self-righteous. If they wanted our respect they would have given some in return. But obviously they could not care less.
29
I don't mock vegans, but I would like them to mind their own business. When I am sitting at my desk eating something, please don't feel you have the right to stop and lecture me. Don't bother. Because of the obnoxious vegan in my office, I eat animal products at my desk whenever I can.
24
There’s an old joke — “How do you know you’re talking to a vegan? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you” — that is as untrue as it is revealing about the teller.
Actually its quite true. Just look at how many comments here include the phrase "As a vegan, I....".
16
Ignorance is destroying our world, globally, politically, socially ...... Our ever ballooning bodies keep growing, at the same rate as the medical system brakes down. A waddling mankind, which increasingly include our children ; moving with difficulty...... breathing with difficulty. Knowledge about food is a huge part of it. Letting big business lead us, corrupt our bodies.
Are we such fools .... !! Or are we gamblers and addicts..... !
31
Is mocking vegans a thing? Everything they say makes economic and ecological sense, I am not one but have never looked at veganism as something to scorn. This seems to be case of a writer wanting to make a point, but making up an separate issue as clickbait.
25
Vegans, stop preaching, done.
See how easy that is?
9
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
25
“That would be better with bacon!”
What an absolutely horrible comment. The commentator should be banned from the web site and have to pay for the therapy that the vegan chef no doubt needs.
With all the vicious, mean-spirited, sometimes threatening comments posted online, this is something that should trigger soul-searching?
Yes, the eyeballs rolled way back.
3
Woody Allen already covered this ground in "Sleeper."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yCeFmn_e2c=-0
1
You are walking on the street and you see someone torturing a cat.
You run to the monstrous person and tell them, "Dear God! Stop torturing that poor animal!"
They reply, "Don't worry, I'm going to eat it. And why are you being so preachy anyway? Mind your own business."
Would you consider that reasonable response? If not, why is it OK to provide that kind of response to vegans who are worried about animals being tortured for food?
84
As an omnivore who eats a mostly plant based diet (personally I find the term vegan itself to be a bit obnoxious, saying I eat a plant based diet is simply saying what I eat, vegan thanks to the hucksters and the loudmouths and the obnoxiously smug like Gwynnet Paltrow and her ilk), while I tend to agree with Vegans on the issues with eating meat, I personally have found many of them to be preachy and smug. There are great ways to talk about the advantages of a plant based diet, there are good ways to talk of the consequences of eating meat, the need to reduce it, without coming off as Billy Graham trying to convert the heathens.
I'll give you the difference. Years ago, my wife for my birthday took me to a famous steakhouse when we routinely ate meat, and I invited a good friend, who was a vegan/vegetarian. She came, and didn't try to scold us for choosing a steakhouse, she had a big salad and a baked potato and vegetable. She could also have turned me down and explained why and that would have been cool.
Compare to this: friend of mine had pot luck thanksgiving, so there was plenty there that was true vegan, no dairy, no meat, some really cool stuff. One woman, who probably buys Goop products, came, and spent the entire night pointing out the ills of the non vegan food and generally was a downer..and I have seen this a lot. And yes, a lot of vegans do get lumped in with the idiots, plant based diets are the way to go for a lot of reasons.
16
Any discussion of "...ethics and the environment" is useless without a discussion of population. The path to saving the Amazon forests, the forests of Indonesia, even the forests of Southeast Alaska lies in addressing population. Stop avoiding the question, Mr. Manjoo.
5
Thank you, Mr. Manjoo for stating what any sensible person should realize. Criticizing those who advocate consideration for our fellow sentient species is asinine and far too common. It's like criticizing people who advocate consideration for other races, classes, etc, and as irrational as being a racist or a sexist. That it is so common speaks to the self-centeredness of humanity, which is largely why the planet is in such a mess. Instead of reveling in their ignorance and apathy, non-vegans should acknowledge that veganism is admirable and in the best interest of all Earthlings.
Please stop eating aquatic animals, though! Fishing/fish farming is the cause of the greatest number of animals being killed and in some of the cruelest ways, and it is environmentally devastating. Contrary to industry and government hype, fish consumption is hazardous to our health. All of the nutrients we need in order to thrive can be obtained more healthfully, humanely, and environmentally responsibly from plant sources, including vegan seafood: http://www.FishFeel.org/seafood
29
You should start writing about the food we waste, since over 40% goes into the garbage.
Personally, I don't eat that much animal protein, anyway. But, still I would rather have lower prices, and zero waste, than be forced to eat a specific diet.
Just sayin'.
https://grist.org/food/every-last-bite-why-wasting-animal-protein-is-unethical/
http://www.countinganimals.com/animals-we-use-and-abuse-for-food-we-do-not-eat/
9
Dear Mr. Manjoo,
Greetings from Brussels and thank you very much for this opinion piece. I read it this morning on my way to work and burst into laughter when reading the paragraph where you highlight that “[vegans] are asked whether oral sex is vegan” … Yes, that is true! I have been a vegetarian for more than 25 years and, since two years, a vegan, and, indeed, this is the type of question that has been thrown at me – that, and also: “Do you only eat salad?” “You are an extremist.” “Plants have feelings too.” And the classical, well-known to vegans, ‘Desert island question’ (“If you were on a desert island and there were only pigs on it, nothing else to eat, you would eat them, right?”). Your article is filled with care and empathy, not only toward vegans: your words irradiate compassion – the kind of that animals worldwide are so badly in need of. Merci.
39
Whom is this writer lecturing? How many readers of this column might actually dare to mock the vegan left and their perfectly correct politics.
3
there is nothing more you can do to think global, act local than to reduce the amount of meat you eat. nothing.
18
A huge thank you to Farhad Manjoo and the NYT for this outstanding article!
19
"There’s an old joke — 'How do you know you’re talking to a vegan? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you' — that is as untrue as it is revealing about the teller."
Read these comments and tell me it's untrue.
8
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?
13
What do we do with the millions of hunters who shoot everything from squirrels to moose and trade recipes at the American Legion post? What about fish? Can I still go fishing?
1
'Became organic vegan when moving to NYC over 40 years ago. Have not eaten any meat or animal/bird products since. No big deal.
But I feel the NYT mocks me when 99% of their many food columns are dedicated to tarting up swill from the dark ages. Maybe the experts should be concentrating on presenting wholesome, tasty, nutritious vegan fare while the rest are eating the latest meat craze? Too big a challenge? No big deal.
18
Yes, CO2, excess water use, deforestation, fertilizers, over grazing with erosion all related. Then there is the BIG thing of health. Meat eaters, everywhere, have more diseases such as heart disease and Alzheimers and some cancers. Overall they have 10 years or more less life span.
Meat ,of all kinds , cause this. Its another stupid habit we have acquired. Now, its not just our health but that of the world. Skipping one or two helpings per week per person would make a big difference for all.
13
Vegans aren't the only people working for a sustainable future.
5
Dear Mr. Manjoo,
Perhaps vegan fare is becoming more appealing. I hope so. But my last experience a year ago did nothing to make me want to got to a vegan meal.
We had invited some people over for Thanksgiving and their 18 year old son was vegan. He had brought his own food which was fine. He sat next to me during the meal. Whatever he was eating smelled terrible and looked like some sticky green gruel with some kind of other bits in it. Forgive me for being blunt but it looked like green vomit. This did nothing for my appetite.
I of course did not make any comments and we had a friendly discussion about where he was hoping to go to college. Nevertheless, I hope he doesn't sit next to me at another Thanksgiving unless he can bring something that looks and smells a bit more appetizing.
3
Thank you for this! I’ve been vegan for over ten years, vegetarian for 20 before that and work tirelessly at animal sanctuaries to save abused farm animals. But it’s only a drop in the ocean compared to the billions bred, raised, abused, and slaughtered yearly! Yes, billions!!!
I urge you to go all the way Mr Manjoo!
19
This is such an articulate, nuanced article. Thank you.
I didn't need any group or individuals or movement to influence me...I simply loved animals even as a kid so I made my choices, and definitely after watching the exposé videos (which I wish all would see) on factory farming, the heinous fur industry and the sad dairy industry, I just knew I couldn't and wouldn't take part in this psychopathy.
None of us are truly "pure" unless we live off the grid, but at least we can make the choices to be less hypocritical and more kind. So many of us dissociate from their "liberal" ethics, or virtue-signalling online about various causes, until it comes down to the what's on their plate or on the trim on their jackets.
I request the readers to watch the videos and then make their decisions. (Google Paul McCartney's "If slaughterhouses had glass walls" and "the fur industry in 60 seconds" for a start) If there is true hell, that's what these animals live through....true houses of horrors.
Sadly, all the debates, mocking and rebuttals won't remove a single second of horrific suffering the poor, poor animals go through...
it's easy to write or mock - real bravery is watching those videos to the end. Do it, for the sake of your dogs or cats at least and their brethren who are viciously tortured and skinned alive, anally electrocuted, ripped alive for the fur and meat industry. :( That is all. Peace.
19
You know what's funny? I've never once-- I repeat ONCE-- volunteered to another person that I'm vegan. I belong to no vegan organizations, I distribute no vegan propaganda, I'm the furthest thing from a vegan evangelist. Forget about preaching and so on, I just don't talk about it. But then sometimes of course it comes out as an honest answer to a simple question.
What's odd is that the "preachy, self-righteous vegan" template seems to kick in no matter what I say or do. I'm really, really, tactful and diplomatic. I always stress that its just a personal thing, not a crusade, not about judging others, etc.
And it makes no difference! Even thought the "confession" of veganism was wrung out of me, and I bent over backward to stress lack of judgement, my interlocutor inevitably-- inevitably!-- acts as if I'd splashed them with warm blood and yelled "J'accuse!" with a pointed finger.
What's odd is the only "missionary zeal" I've experienced is from non-vegans on a crusade to talk me out of it... I think Farhad is right that it stems from a mix of suppressed guilt and cognitive dissonance. They're so desperate to talk me out of it because the very existence of vegans is asking people to do two of the things people like to do least of all: make a significant personal sacrifice, and admit to being wrong about something.
46
Thank you for the excellent column Mr. Manjoo. I am not a vegan. However, I eat beef perhaps twice a month, and other meats perhaps 6 times a month, partly because so many restaurants offer only token vegan/vegetarian items as an underspiced afterthought. But I do not miss meat one-iota on my meat-restricted diet and I highly recommend that carnivores try it. It's healthier, less cruel and more environmental - with no loss of culinary satisfaction, particularly if you cook at home.
I suppose it's fantasy to imagine the world becoming vegan. But it seems far more doable to get people to consume something like 50% less meat overall, and maybe 75% less beef. This change combined with other efforts might give us a shot at avoiding societal collapse.
Finally, I must say you've been writing terrific opinion pieces for about the last year or so, when it seems like you stopped being a fanboy-tool for the tech industry.
7
Any self-respecting slave owner sure gets weary of that preaching from abolitionists. And those suffragettes, God! Can't someone make those women go away? And then there's that long-haired demonstrator always ranting against Vietnam!
These people in the vanguard never know what they're talking about.
28
As long as they don’t force it on their children I couldn’t care less.
2
Seriously?
While I honestly don't care what people eat, within reason of course (e.g. cannibals...endangered species), I cannot and will not stop making vegan jokes.
Food cults are one of those first world problems that almost pleads to be mocked along with the richly ludicrous notion that food is bad for you.
4
I have no problem with vegans...until they launch on a pious lecture.
5
No, they are not right on ethics. They should be quiet and enjoy their vegetables, tubers, and beans. Vegans are not mocked for what they eat. They are mocked because they won't shut up.
5
This 65-year old vegan is getting cognitive dissonance from this article. The author acknowledges all the reasons to stop eating animals but then confesses that he continues to do so. It's like a doctor telling you to stop smoking with a cigarette hanging from his mouth.
8
No, Farhad, our questing for meat is not killing the planet. Our ancestors--bless them--did not hunt for garden burgers. I hope this isn't a surprise to you and all the vegans out there. What's happened here Mr. Manjoo is the world's people decided, for whatever reason, somewhere around 1880, to completely, utterly, and totally populate the world beyond reason, belief, or sanity. This is why we're in the mess we're in today. Accept it. Own it. Embrace it. One person passing gas under the covers is sustainable; one thousand, not so much. Let's not beat around the bush. If you do not agree you are a climate change denier.
4
If the whole world suddenly became vegan, cows, chickens, pigs, goats, sheep...would cease to exist. Having grown up on a farm, I find that kind of sad, even if it’s the right thing to do.
50
This is a fantastic article, bravo sir! Grade A comedy!
1
Wait a minute. What happened to moderation, in all things. This is why I love, love Julia Child. A well-known Julia motto is "moderation in everything, even moderation." She understood the joy of eating, she did not genuflect and cow tow to fades or phases. We, in this country, I believe have lost the joy of food. We overeat, we starve ourselves, we chose processed foods (including the vegan types) and waste so much. To me, to lose the joy of eating is like losing the joy of all of our senses; taste, smell, hearing, hey, even sex. Why is food now a "statement"? We've lost something very important, here.
6
Maybe eating vegan makes one timid? I remember the line "real men don't eat quiche". Perhaps its a protein deficiency or it alters the brain chemistry? Anyway one does not need be a vegan or vegetarian to be an environmentalist.
2
As usual, the snark comes from keyboard warriors, many of whom I guess have been made very uncomfortable by this piece. Thanks for helping prove Mr. Manjoo's points.
24
How do you know if someone is a vegan? They will TELL you within the first 5 minutes of meeting them!
6
@Bulldawg So true
Being vegan is great. Though some people cannot for health reasons or chose not to, such as the author. Industrialized farming and factory foodstuffs are destroying our planet, our bodies and cause immense suffering. There are better methods for harvesting food to be sure. Yet not all populations have equal access to alternatives. Needing to work 2-3 low paying jobs to keep a roof over your head, fast food may be all you can manage for your kids. Then there is the consumption avocados. Demand has made them too expensive for the people growing them to eat. Plus the drug cartels have become involved in the profits subjecting farmers to kidnapping, rape, torture and brutal murder. So if you consume avocados you too contribute to suffering and loss of life.
The point is being vegan does not make you more righteous.
I am sorry, every vegan I ever met has told me otherwise. It is a choice. If you really want to practice empathy, acknowledge we are each on our own path and stop judging each other.
3
Yes, sir. Disowned (guilt) thoughts that are denied consciousness in oneself are projected on to vegans as the source of that discomfort. Inner conflicts, neither confronted nor resolved, are often perceived as centered in or caused by the 'other.' This shadow dynamic underlies so many of the emotionally charged tensions in the world that we can often assume it's an element. It's good to read you and imagine that an awareness of this habit of mind can become pervasive and help us to make planet saving decisions.
4
Some animals are cute, others delicious -- what's not to like? That said, the vegans are right, but I have been eating meat for 70 years and really, really like the taste. I also like the taste of lobster very much and would eat it more were it not so expensive.
What I would like to see in an article like this is the difference in harm to environment of the different farm animals and/or method of farming.
Hopefully my solar panels and electric car mitigate my fondness for meat.
1
What about the suffering of the animals?
14
Until the greed and profit factor is removed from the killing and eating of animals, our American culture will not change.
I'm about vegetarian, it has taken me awhile to give up a food source that society has REQUIRED I ingest into my body since birth.
We also need to remove the "superior" attitude that is so embedded in our culture concerning MAJORITY'S rules of what we eat and drink, etc. This attitude stems from wanting to belong to and accepted by the human animal pack and the "I don't give a damn" perspective that is killing our planet and causing human disease and death.
When you kill an animal the vibrations of that animal remain in it's meat and by-products - FEAR and ANGER are two gifts the animal gives us and those filter down into human actions and behavior.
Individual changes are made by that individual and do not always happen over night. Once the wealth and profit are remove the changes will happen faster.
Impossible Whopper - big thumbs up - char grilled so it tastes like meat, not red inside like the Next Level and has a sort of crunch to it - try it - you'll be amazed.
2
While it is important to respect people who believe that they are working to improve the world (or save the planet), it is at least as important to do your due diligence before you subject your body to any belief-based dietary lifestyle.
And I say this as a former adherant to macrobiotics. The most prominant leader of the movement, Mishio Kushi, died of pancreatic cancer after surviving colon cancer; his wife Aveline, died of cervical cancer, as did Lily, one of his daughters. This would be tragic enough, but it is mind-boggling when you realize that for decades, all three had been touting the macrobiotic philosophy and diet as the remedy for cancer. Mishio even titled one of his books: "The Cancer Prevention Diet." Eventually his followers made revisions after finding that vitamin B12 deficiencies in their own children were common. My own teacher and friend died at age forty-four of metastasized testicular cancer.
Veganism is not macrobiotics, but the mindset of blind faith invested in good intentions is a common danger.
A few quick web searches will provide you with real cautions to consider.
https://www.cleaneatingkitchen.com/vegan-diet-dangers-health/
https://chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets/
57
@Allen I have been vegan for 11 years, my husband 25 years. Our blood work is perfect with zero health issues. Like every diet including meat, you need to watch what you eat and take vitamins. We are both extremely athletic have many friends who are vegan above 70 with zero health issues... You can find anything on the internet and usually when it comes addressing a vegan diet, a meat eater will go to lengths to find that article.
93
Thank you for this thoughtful piece.
6
I haven’t been eating beef or pork for about 30 years. Nobody has ever mocked me.
3
I can't thank you enough for this article Mr. Manjoo!
2
What have you got against people from Las Vegas?
2
Say it loud!
4
Thank you! The snark regularly directed at vegans is hard to bear, particularly when it comes from otherwise delightful sources (such as the NYT's food editor Sam Sifton). If vegans' ethical choices annoy you, the onus is on you to figure out why.
15
How is missing the point ethical? The argument of most 'save the planet' types, whether vegan, environmentalist, or whatever is 'you need to give up X, so we can safely fit the current number of people or more on the planet'. The whole 'how do we continue making more people' argument is unethical, no matter who it comes from.
Each person consumes. Notice I didn't say what. Each person consumes, period. Whether you look at it as a carbon footprint issue, or a supply and demand issue, or a sustainable supply issue, each person consumes. Recycling, or veganism, or other sustainability tricks only reduce the level of consumption, they never stop it. What does stop consumption? Making less people.
Looking down the vegan path, sure, giving up meat will help if the current number of people does not rise. If the current number of people does not rise, this phrase should sound in your ears like a gong. There is a population level at which even 100% adoption of veganism will NOT help. Every couple that has two or fewer kids is holding the population, and the level of consumption in the world to the current level, or less.
The best Mother's Day gift you can give Mother Earth is having two or fewer offspring, and/or waiting longer to have them.
6
The new BK burger is made largely of highly processed soy protein, which is problematic in itself, plus a whole slew of additives. getting people to move away from beef is certainly valuable, but this isn't what I think of as healthy eating.
1
You’re absolutely right that it’s unhealthy...if you eat processed fast food 21 meals per week. I encourage you to stop doing that.
4
Mr. Manjoo:
When are vegan's going to stop lecturing us omnivores with their smug sense of superiority ?
3
We have been indoctrinated to feel that dogs and cats are important and worthy of our love but pigs, cows, and chickens are not. If you really think about it this makes no sense. Farm animals feel fear and pain just like any other animal.
17
I expected nothing less of Mr. Manjoo. Being vegetarian is about what you eat; being vegan is about ostentative righteousness.
3
The trend toward veganism is long overdue. The costs of our healthcare overall, which could be substantially diminished with a vegan/plant based diet, and the increase in preventable diet-induced disease can be linked to the overconsumption of animal products. So, we eat animal products and our health suffers. Corporate greed fuels deforestation, adversely affecting the earth, indigenous people, and the animals living there. Mass meat and dairy product incites much damage to our small blue planet. So we eat animal products and humans and the earth suffer. Mostly, for me, as an ethical vegan, the systemic and irrefutable torture of farm animals diminishes our compassion for others who are unlike us. The social problems that stem from this myopic and egocentric view of the world are innumerable. For every time we participate in the abuse, torture, and death of any sentient being, we are, also, doing it to ourselves. We consume their fear; their grief at being ripped away from their babies the way mother cows routinely are for dairy; their loneliness. We take that into our bodies and we lose a piece of our soul with every bite. I've been vegan since 1972 and I cannot fathom life any other way. For our own health, for our planet, for our families, and for the animals... veganism rise up.
15
Humanely raising & slaughtering human food is an ongoing challenge. There is no doubt that we evolved because we ate meat (ruminant animals predominantly). If you don't believe that, check your stomach pH. That being said, being humane about this process is--obviously--important. But you also need to be clear that the Amazon isn't burning because I ate a steak.
We could be so much wiser with our food supply by simply letting cows roam the (un-croppable) lands they did eons ago. We can be helping to save the planet with ruminant animals (they can be a net carbon sink when utilized properly). And that doesn't even speak to the much, much better nutrient density [ie proper ratios of amino acids for example] of red meat (yeah, that food that enabled humans to become human--it sure as heck wasn't tofu).
You say that vegans have it right as if it's a foregone conclusion. It is not. It's not even a normal human diet. But you eat what you want, and I'll eat what I want. And don't try to say that your vegan diet causes less suffering--it does not. I can have one animal killed (one, single cow) and it will feed me for a year. That bowl of salad comes with a body count as well (insects, vols, other 'pests' that have to be controlled so precious lettuce can grow).
Start treating this debate like one between intelligent people and then we can have an honest discussion and get to real solutions.
7
What is the source of way more environmental destruction than animal husbandry?
Those people who absolutely refuse to take responsibility for their reproduction. If you are the biological parent of more than two children you, personally, are contributing to population growth.
People are destroying this planet, not chickens and cows.
We inherited paradise, and are turning it into a cesspool.
5
To have a plant-based diet is the world’s easiest form of activism.
Thank you Mr. Manjoo for putting your thoughts to this topic and for expressing them with such clarity. Your perspective will influence many people, and it personally warms my heart.
To further this line of thinking I recommend Ed Winters’ TEDtalk entitled ‘Every Argument Against Veganism’. Lucid to the nth degree. https://youtu.be/byTxzzztRBU
Let me also offer a suggestion for anyone who visits Seattle. It’s somewhat of a local secret:
Highline (Capitol Hill) A dive bar where irony and craft beer alike o’erflow the measure. Located on the second floor of an unreinforced masonry building in an earthquake zone, the spot’s over-tall and unsmiling bartenders spin death metal over house speakers at a conversational decibel until 8 PM nightly: the definition of passive aggressive. Likewise, their menu — with entrees named Pig Destroyer (pulled “pork” with creamy slaw and onions, $11) and More Cumin Than Cumin (soft “carne asada” seitan tacos, $9) — will fuel your latent angst straight to the stage out back where the first of the night’s triple-header headbangers performs a stoic soundcheck. Uncanny on all fronts, but tastebuds triggered and appetites aroused, you’d be unwise once fatted to give out before 3 AM.
10
I have been unpretentiously vegan since 1977, July 1st to be exact (the start of a sabbatical year in Sweden), for the four well-known, irrefutable categories of reasons: animal liberation, environmental, my personal health, and energy conservation. So for me this is not new. Despite exercising deliberate diffidence over the past 42 years I have been abusively humiliated by meat eaters on very many occassions, some hard to forget - what is it about being at ease with maltreatment and slaughtering of animals that goes with belligerence? I disagree however that one should submissively accept irresponsible behaviour on the part of society at large; I believe we have a responsiblility to encourage informed conduct. On human population management I respectively suggest support by simply joining organisations such as the Population Institute of Canada https://populationinstitutecanada.ca/
I see the world already heading to local crisis points.
8
What anybody eats is nobody's business. Don't judge, don't mock, don't overshare. Remember your manners and move on.
58
@Susan weelllll, actually if you are eating animal products it IS everyone's business because its currently affecting us all. Its one of the major contributors to climate change. It causes or plays a major roll in the most deadly chronic diseases like heart disease, diabetes, cancers, alzheimer's; which in turn jacks up everyones insurance premiums or taxes, depending on your health system. Finally killing animals in a country with an abundance of plants year round is needless and selfish. There is no more reason to do it than kill and eat the family dog and just as bothersome. People wouldn't ignore family dogs being eaten so we shouldn't be expected to ignore the torture of other animals.
76
@Zac, please listen to the podcasts here: https://www.peak-human.com/ it might change your mind on some things. The diseases you mentioned, are mainly caused by sugar, processed foods and seed oils and not meat. The current American diet is making each generation fatter and sicker than the previous and it is not because of meat.
9
Getting close to 30 years now I've been mocked for not eating, drinking or wearing animal products. I've never really let the mocking thing bother me because it usually bothers the anti-vegans more that I don't eat animals. And, truthfully after a while, over the many years, I have to say...the mocking thing just sounds so sad, silly and pathetic. Kind of like someone mocking me because I'm against kicking kittens. Yeah, sorry mockers but I'll say it, you all really start sounding quite feeble to my ears.
17
Yeah, let's everyone adopt a diet that is diametrically opposed to the diet that allowed for the evolution of homo sapiens.
5
You’re onto something there...here’s additional ammo to help strengthen your voice:
‘Every Argument Against Veganism’
https://youtu.be/byTxzzztRBU
3
Check out a chapter on food and sustainability from David Mackay’s “Sustainable energy — without the hot air” — you can find it here: https://www.withouthotair.com/c13/page_76.shtml. Mackay was a brilliant scientist and mathematician.
This is not the most thorough analysis one could do, but it looks directionally correct to me. In this analysis, vegans come out on top.
It would be really nice if someone could extend Mackay’s work, perhaps by asking…
— Are “well managed livestock […] critical pieces of natural habitats”? (@Cameron H)
— What are the relative environmental/energetic costs for not only growth, but transport and storage of many different plant-based foods vs. animal-based foods?
—etc
This way people have something reliable they can point to when others (either for or against veganism) try to shroud what might be defensiveness with poorly thought out, pseudo-rational sustainability arguments.
1
@Nina
Unfortunately, arguments based on (1) morality (like Peter Singer’s work on equal rights for animals on the basis of suffering — https://www.utilitarian.net/singer/by/1979----.htm) or (2) health benefits are often written off as (1) opinion or subjective, (2) anecdotal or inconclusive.
A major logical fallacy *on both sides* is to use perceived hypocrisy or lack of extremism as an argument against what is arguably positive action. For example
— You don’t eat meat, but you eat dairy — I don’t have to listen to you
— You are a vegan, but you use plastics — I don’t have to listen to you
— You eat meat once a week — I don’t have to listen to you
— Plants can feel! — I don’t have to listen to you
You get the picture…
1
Q. What did the vegan eat for lunch?
A. Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.
3
I agree. Thank you.
1
In fact, you are correct.
1
Too many people living in glass houses throwing stones.
If vegans call me a murderer, do I really have to be nice to them in return?
And BTW soy is an allergen. I can't go anywhere near it. Even had to give up Asian food.
7
Do a lot of vegans call you a murderer, or is it just the straw man?
With the interwebs and googlenets growing in popularity we may learn about cultures and cuisines outside of America in the future. From my limited knowledge of foreigners I believe the people in India, to take one example, have enjoyed and required soy products in their diet for exactly...zero millennia.
6
I’m prepared to love vegans if they are prepared to love me for my choices which are different from theirs. I have encountered their smug superiority too many times. If they shed their “I’m better than you” attitude, I’d be more kindly disposed towards them. I feel the same way when someone shows up at my doorstep trying to convert me to their religion.
5
Thank you for such a beautifully worded article.
I am Vegan for 7 years andI I must say I have never experienced any hostile remarks.
I think the majority of the "make fun of vegans" occurs on social media which is where all the hostile and stupid comments reside
4
Sure, that's good, but if what we care about primarily is environmental impact, then let's respect people who go out, shoot an elk, and that's their family's protein for six months or whatnot. I borrow from memory from "The Oil We Eat" in Harper's a ways back.
I'm sure Manjoo knows this, but, as another footnote to a good piece, if you're eating bespoke strawberries flown in from Saturn, that's not nearly as Woke as the NRA member who isn't a neofascist but likes hunting, and feeds his (or her) family in that way. Super low impact.
My view is what matters critically is the environmental impact. The ethics, supposedly, of animal-eating -- with which, though I'm a hypocrite, is probably spot on -- simply gets in the way these next two decades when we have to turn all this around ASAP.
Eyes on the prize.
4
No one cares what you eat (I've tried veganism myself). The condescension and assumed moral superiority (of many leftists including vegans), as well as shoving your views down our throats, we can live without.
3
Nobody cares what you eat. They care about the animals you kill and the environment you harm.
10
This is an amazingly important article. I’m so glad you wrote it. However, what deflates me is that I’ve come to believe that a low carb diet is the healthiest diet, and it’s hard to pull off a low carb vegan diet. Does that mean the world has to choose between two bad options? If so, that leaves me feeling very bleak about the future.
2
I used to have a boyfriend who would say "I don't want to hear about your politics, religion and vegetarianism". That sums it up for me
3
My experience, as a vegan for ethical reasons now going on 25 years, is that as soon as people hear that I'm vegan they immediately feel it necessary to get defensive or say some idiotic thing about plants feeling pain just like animals. I've heard it all. These folks feel the need to get defensive rather than face what their choices are doing to animals and the planet, and they want to stay in blissful ignorance; simply sitting at the table with a vegan is a direct threat to this. I have also not seen that most people who eat meat know already or really want to know the truth about what happens to animals due to their food choices. They want to see it wrapped in a container at the store and pretend that animals are treated humanely no matter where they are killed. My hope is that for all the lousy ramifications of social media, the truth about meat will keep spreading and more and more people will be forced to face the facts and eventually change their ways. Unlike other albeit non-scientific conspiracy theories out there, it's very hard to claim that photos and videos of animals being killed/tortured for meat are "fake news."
8
As an eater of meat, it would never occur to me to "ridicule a vegan" anymore than it would for me, a consumer of alcohol, to ridicule a "teetotaler." But it is not at all unusual to encounter vegans who are decidedly messianic when it comes to diet.
7
It’s because there are principles behind what they eat. They don’t eat just to eat.
3
The word vegan come from the word, "vegetable" and was originally pronounced in a similar manner.
1944, from vegetable (n.) + -an; coined by English vegetarian Donald Watson (1910-2005) to distinguish those who abstain from all animal products (eggs, cheese, etc.) from those who merely refuse to eat the animals.
Everyone, please stop pronouncing it, viːɡən.
That's one less reason for people to make fun of vegans.
The people that kill me are those who eat fish or chicken but call themselves vegetarians. I don't know where this idea came from that if you don't eat red meat you are a vegetarian. Often they are the same people that want to make sure their fish won't be served with the head still on. I guess having to see that would break the illusion that fish comes from an animal not a plant.
2
The forests in S. America are being levelled to accomodate meat production. I'll bet vegans understand that. Just like they understand they are healthier because of their diet choices.
7
fine...tell vegans to be happy with their choice, but leave the normal rest of us alone...they aren't saving any planets or anything else, once they realize that, everyone will get along just fine...
1
If you think veganism isn’t good for the planet, then you clearly didn’t read the article that you are commenting on.
12
I would like to add that while the use of labels may be discouraging, the focus on stop mocking vegans is misplaced. It should be simply: eat less meat.
But I understand not all will want to read that column.
Quite simply - labeling people as omnivores or vegan pushes people to extremes, instead of nudging them in the right direction: reduce meat consumption.
Also: a plant based diet is just better for your health. The science says so.
For people that dismiss this advice, just talk about the evidence that shows how our gut microbiome gets trained by what we eat. The more of something we eat, the more of that we want to eat. Because of that, slow replacements are good and may be more effective than drastic changes.
Start by going vegan one or two days of the week, and see how you feel.
2
I would argue that a low carb diet is better for your health. But vegan is clearly better for the environment, and thus our health indirectly.
1
Bravo from one who is as the author says he is: Still aspiring to be even a vegetarian. Mostly am pescatarian with occasional lapses eating chicken but no more pork and haven't eaten beef in decades. Progress, not perfection.
But more people trying and not thinking every meal has to have animal protein to be a real meal would help tremendously.
I hope the NY Times will make this article available to non-subscribers, too, so more people can share it and more can read it.
3
It's not the lack of animal consumption that bothers me about vegans--its their rigidity about what constitutes animal products. Let me boldly say this: I enjoy honey. I enjoy licking spoons full of the stuff. Vegans can't touch the stuff.
Guess what: broccoli has a life. So does asparagus. Peas may have a rich culure for all we know.
3
I'm very sympathetic to the ideals that vegans espouse. I do not agree with them entirely but I absolutely understand their reasoning. I am just tired of being implicitly called a rapacious mass murder because I don't adhere to their principles. I do not want to have an argument with someone because I'm eating bacon or having some charcuterie. I don't want to have someone tell me that "if I only knew what happened in slaughterhouses I'd be vegan". I know what happens, I know the process, and I've slaughtered and butchered animals before.
So when vegans stop with the self righteous routine I'll stop pushing back against it. I'm not seeking to change their deeply held beliefs - I just want a detente.
7
I eat plant-based foods almost exclusively, and I do everything I can to avoid telling people why I'm not having the bacon and the barbecue. I don't enjoy the overt hostility some meat eaters show to people who make other choices. Once, when I asked a grocery store employee where I could find the Beyond Burger patties, he insulted me and snorted in derision. Another time, a stranger wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat approached me in the supermarket, pointed at the soy milk in my shopping cart, and declared that it was made out of spider webs before sneering at me and lumbering off. I don't wish to appear sanctimonious by discussing my reasons for eating what I do and avoiding what I don't, but I do wish these omnivores would leave me in peace to make my own choices about what I consume.
10
I think this is a one rotten apple spoils the barrel phenomenon. Of course vegans are great, as are vegetarians, and people who thoughtfully limit and consider these foods, etc. The problem is: nearly everyone knows at least one vegan who is PREACHY, to us, to strangers on the subway, to anyone who brings up the topic of food or parenting. They are ruining it for the vegans.
6
I can't recall hearing that MLK Jr. complained about not being liked or Walter Reuther or Toni Morrison or Tig Notaro or Bill Hicks or a million other leaders and thinkers ahead of their time in their thinking or their behavior. Why are vegans obsessed with their perception? I could understand if they were getting beaten up or harassed out of public spaces but this strikes me as a serious fit of hand-wringing. Stop worrying whether people make fun of you already and just do your thing. So what if they make fun of you! Is this what we've come to - that it's not enough to do the right thing but to get thanked for it and celebrated, too? Good lord. A therapist told me years ago, "Joe, if you're waiting for people to thank you for doing the right thing, you'll be waiting a long time." She was right a thousand times over.
6
If most Americans were aware of what factory farming really is they would most likely greatly limit or quit eating meat. It changed my diet immensely - all for the better. We cannot tackle global warming without considering eliminating factory farming in the US.
8
Most vegans have one or more of the following reasons for being vegan: a) the environmental factor, b) their own health and c) animal welfare. In my humble opinion it makes no difference, which reason it is. We all by now I'm sure have understood that we cannot continue to eat as we have, if we want to keep our planet alive. What I find wonderfully amazing is the sheer number of intelligent people suddenly realising what time the clock struck, and going either vegan or drastically reducing their animal product intake. I'm forever the optimist, I refuse to give up hope for my as yet unborn grandkids to have air to breathe and plant food to eat.
I am 58 and turned vegan 6 years ago after I had been diagnosed the year before with fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis and sky high blood pressure. The doctors put me on 8 different meds and I lived in a medication induced fog for nearly a year, unable to work, before I decided that I had had enough, and started my own research. Once I changed to a whole food plant based diet, and phased out the meds, my body started healing. Needless to say, I'm fine now and off all meds. And I proudly wear my t-shirt which says "Not your mama - not your milk" ;) And to be honest, I'm not bothered by being mocked. I'm living proof of what can be achieved by common sense.
6
The environment and ethics are only two(2) of the three(3) reasons for choosing a vegan lifestyle. The other is health.
People can choose a vegan diet for the very self centered reason that it is healthy and can reverse health problems caused by a poor omnivore diet.
Do I care if people mock my diet? No, I feel sympathy for their poor health. At 65 I take no meds and I keep up or beat a lot of younger people on a bicycle or in the pool. Fortunately, I hold myself to a higher standard and do not mock their health and the poor decisions they make. I'm a believer in a vegan diet for my own health and the health of the environment.
7
@Brian
I'm no vegan, but at 65 I also take no meds nor have I ever taken any, and keep up or beat many young people at running and walking. You seem to think your veganism explains your good health. But then there's people like me.
5
@redweather . Congratulations. It does explain my good health. I was on blood pressure meds and did lower my cholesterol so that I didn't need them. Are their healthy omnivores? Yes, but the statistics on rising obesity and diabetes tell the story of a lot of people who feel entitle to eat a poor diet, not exercise and expect meds or surgery to fix them. Good for you, but the population as a whole would be a lot healthier if half the people at half as much meat and dairy without choosing vegan and healthier still if it did. The environment would be better in both cases. BTW, I swam 3100m this morning, 54 mile bike ride on Sunday. Enjoy your walks and runs.
4
I don't know anyone that mocks Vegans. And to say 'they are right' is an opinion, not a fact. Yes, the Amazon is burning, but do you really think it's just because of grazing?! It's cleared for agriculture and population expansion. A better article might be one that questions population growth and it's impact on the planet.
7
The problem is that the only interactions remembered are ones filled with strident evangelism.
6
I have been predominantly vegetarian for almost 30 years. Last September, I gave up dairy and eggs at the suggestion of an acupuncturist as a way to possibly reduce the nerve pain I was experiencing. Within three days of cutting out dairy and eggs, my pain went away. So did the stiffness I had been experiencing. If I happen to get some dairy by accident (it is in everything! including the potato chips I bought the other day), I have pain again. Since I feel so much better not eating dairy, eggs, or meat, I am committed to staying (almost) vegan. I know others who have had similar experiences, whether it's pain, heart burn, sinus issues, or gas, eating a whole foods plant based diet helps them feel better. Being better for the environment is an added bonus.
4
For me teeth tell the story. I don't have a lions teeth. I don't have cows teeth. I have the teeth of an omnivore. That is how we evolved in nature. It is who we are. We, like other omnivores, can choose what we eat, but our bodies have developed over the eons to be who we are.
I can go days without eating meat. I don't feel deprived, nor do I feel special for doing so. It's just that I enjoyed that sandwich or salad or pasta or whatever it was. However when I opt for a meal that includes poultry, seafood, or meat I don't feel terrible or guilty either. I am just eating as nature built me and how our ancestors ate. Eating what was available and desired at the time.
If you never eat meat or you always eat meat that's your choice.
5
@Marie Hi Marie, As a man who is also vegan this argument that nature made me this way perplexes me. A lot of cultures still subjugate women since they are clearly the "weaker" sex. Hey god made em that way. Somehow when we know something is wrong our big frontal cortexes can over ride our more primitive desires and body designs. For me our cortical control trumps all other bodily designs including the one sharp tooth. It is better for our bodies and our planet. Eventually it will become the norm, just as respect for women as equals is growing.
11
I was raised a vegetarian, but I ate meat most of my adult life. Over the last few years I started to question my self regarding eating meat. As I put the meat in my mouth I thought about the animal I was eating. I loved dairy, in any and all forms. I Googled cruelty free dairy and the google response was that there was no such thing, (they take the baby calf away from the mother cow) It did not dawn on me that a cow needed to have a baby to produce milk. I am a mother who nursed my child until he was 14 months old. All of this aside I have been vegan since last Thanksgiving up until then I ate meat, I don't judge, my husband and son both eat meat. I think that a place to start is to eat less meat and dairy.
2
I'd like to see vegans team up with advocates of both eating less meat and more humane living (and death) conditions of farmed animals.
I know for vegans the end goal is no meat. But the only way there is to take reasonable, actionable steps to get there.
Less meat and better conditions first.
2
I don't get veganism. I could wrap my mind around a vegetarian, but not NO animal products. What is wrong with milk, cheese and eggs? Nothing. There are no abuses here, or at least there shouldn't be. Much like the vegan rep, anyone saying ALL farmers are cruel are not being honest. I have seen dairy farms first hand, and the milking operations are first rate.
The other issue I have is how vegans are always trying to make things that taste "just like meat". How is that enlightening? If you miss the taste of meat, then have meat. I have no issue with eating vegetables, but alternatives by and far are inferior to the real thing.
And yes, I have had the new BK Impossible Burger. It was "eh".
3
The dairy and egg industries are terribly cruel. Would you want to be forcibly impregnated (raped) repeatedly, have your children taken away from you then killed when you were no longer profitable? Also, vegans are not always trying to do anything. You are totally proving the writer's point.
10
Vegans - such elitists, so privileged. They have choices, stores in which they can shop, and farmers markets to go to. After we get good quality, full-service grocery stores in underserved areas, do away with food deserts and give people of ALL incomes the same access to healthful fruits and vegetables, then maybe we can take vegans seriously since everyone will have the choice to be vegan or not. Until then, vegans are just privileged and really should work to end the lack of food resources in areas of economic challenge.
10
Wow -- way to generalize. You have absolutely zero idea what I'm about as a human being and I'm vegan. Careful with that!
6
Being a vegan is an ideal, the perfect morally conscious and environmentally responsible diet. Some adults can achieve that ideal, but it is not a lifestyle for most people.
Of the billions of people on the planet how many (women) can say, "My mother was a vegan when I was born; I have been a vegan all my life; and I am pregnant and will give birth to a healthy vegan child"?
I was a vegetarian for many years, and I believe that being a "lacto/ovo" vegetarian is a viable lifestyle. I am not aware of any primitive societies that were wholly vegetarian.
5
I'm unconcerned about anyone else's opinion regarding my eating habits. What I would like to see is the elimination of all government subsidies to mass agriculture. The health impacts of poor eating habits creates physical and financial problems in abundance, not just for the individual but for society. As noted previously, eating meat will be viewed similar to tobacco use by society within ten years, assuming we continue to have a livable planet.
8
Preaching an uncomfortable truth will always trigger guilt feelings and a nasty reaction, but that doesn't mean people need to keep quiet as they see the damage and the suffering continue. But it's a good idea to keep the preaching to the political conversation and away from one's own social circles. Which the vast majority of vegans do anyway -- I concur with the author that "preachy vegans" are a myth. I am yet to encounter one (and I've known many vegans), even though I've heard about their perils from many hurt meat lovers.
4
THANK YOU. I've been vegan for 12 years (vegetarian for 23 before that). Like you, I see people's prickliness as defensiveness, as you do. I know because I was one of those people! I was conflicted about having so much trouble quitting dairy, and I took it out on vegans. For that reason, I'm pretty patient (at least at first). As for you personally, Farhad...I can tell you're heading in that direction. All I can say is, it was easier for me to just do it than to be on the fence. All that energy I spent equivocating could have been spent savoring vegan Haagen Dazs! :)
3
Counterpoint to many of the "anti-preachy vegan" comments here -- I understand vegans acting *too* preachy will put people on the defensive and annoy them, leading to ridicule and dismissal of the real positives of veganism.
But on the other hand, if vegans generally have an understanding of the horrors of the factory farming industry and its effects on the world - might they have some ethical obligation to try and inform/persuade oblivious omnivores to reconsider their own worldview?
How are we going to change our values as a society if those in the vanguard of change are meant to stay silent to avoid being mocked and hurting others' feelings?
5
I think there are two issues that are being conflated here - one is factory farming of meat, which everyone should agree is bad for the animals and bad for the planet. The other is being vegan. The columnist proposes the second as a solution for the first, realising full well that this will never satisfy anyone. I think this is pointless, since I don't see the vast majority of meat-eaters suddenly renouncing something they love. However, everyone should be able to come to the realisation that we produce and eat far more meat than we need to. So if people could agree to cut down on this consumption, or to be more discriminating about the origins of their meat if they can afford it, that might be the better way to go. Yes, people choose to be vegan for ethical principles, and if called upon to say so, they should say why. But they should not preach to those who love meat - particularly when they do so with the zeal of the newly-converted. Think of those who do not have choices. Many people in this world would rather get their protein from meat, but just cannot afford it, much less the proteins that come from purely vegan sources. For myself, I prefer to be vegetarian when I can, since I don't particularly like meat, but I feel that I should eat what is put in front of me.
3
I attended, as a vendor, a vegan festival last year, where one of the featured speakers promoted vegan dog and cat food.
After that, I’m fine with mocking vegans.
8
The standard vegan joke isn't around veganism - but rather around the stereotype that vegans constantly remind everybody else how much better they are then everybody else.
8
I'm not vegan either, have been a lifelong vegetarian. It's fairly easy to eat vegetarian anywhere in the world now. It's not so easy to eat vegan. But my God do I admire and respect vegans. They are the most selfless people on the planet.
6
I have been vegetarian, or vegetarian eating some fish, or vegan for 45 years. I have also been bicycling for transportation for even longer. There are interesting parallels between the negativity expressed toward vegans (and in the 1970s, vegetarians) and bicyclists. Both are sometimes criticized as self-righteous. Vegans get lectured on the nutrients supposedly lacking in their diet. Bicyclists get lectured on how dangerous bicycling is. I'm glad to see that vegan diets and bicycling are gradually becoming more accepted and hope the trend will continue. Thanks for the article.
6
News flash. We're omnivores. By design.
Take a look at the digestive system of any herbivore, and you'll see it's far more complicated than ours (cows for example, have four stomachs). This is because they have to break down all those plant proteins right down to the base components, in order to reconstruct them into animal proteins, such as muscle tissue.
Carnivores and omnivores, on the other hand have far simpler digestive systems because they're able to get their animal proteins from other animals. Which is why we can get by on only one stomach.
It should also be noted that it's hard to build a civilization when you have to spend most of your waking hours grazing.
Do humans eat too much meat? Absolutely. I'll be the first to suggest they should cut down. And alternatives like insect paste and cultured meat should definitely be looked at. And yes, we need to do something about "factory farms" and the conditions within and pass legislation to insure the animals are treated humanely.
But should you be made to feel guilty over the occasional cheeseburger? No more than a lion should feel guilty about eating a zebra.
7
I am a vegetarian who aspires to be vegan but cannot make that into a reality. Understanding how difficult it is to be one, I have nothing but immense respect for vegans.
Farhad is right about the hate for vegans. They make us feel inadequate. Instead of admiring, so many of us show hate.
We live in a world of Trump where even basic decency is gone from the public sphere. So I do not expect much out of the folks who watch Fox News. But I hope the liberal omnivores would stop this hate and instead show respect for vegans.
3
I have been a vegetarian/pescatarian for 46 years. I just decided that I would not eat anything I wasn't willing to kill myself. In the 1970s, it was treated as a big deal, and there was not much to eat in restaurants. Now not a big deal and most restaurants have many choices. I never preached diet to anyone, but I did push back if someone questioned the legitimacy of my diet. All of downside to eating meat has been known since the 1970s, but now it's just known by many more people.
2
Only human beings could create the systematized "processing" of other earth creatures. For all of our supposed-intelligence, we are cruel. An animal must lose its life for us to "enjoy" the taste, yet we will not die if we avoid eating animals. Meat-eating is a luxury that the earth can no longer afford. The toll on the environment is a moral issue as much as the harming/killing of other creatures who deserve to live their lives, too. Humans no longer "need" meat as in the frontier days when food was scarce. Predatory animals are just that, animals. We are more evolved, able to make choices. There is a ton of info online about how protein can be derived from plant-based diets, in a more healthy way (little fat or chemicals) for all concerned, including the one we need the most: Mother Earth.
7
This comes from a vegan who refuses to be intimidated. I have been vegan for more than 15 years now and am proud to be so. I even remember the days when people knew so little about vegans that they thought they came from Las Vegas.
Vegans can and do annoy and unsettle people because those who mock vegans tend to feel guilty and defensive about their craving for flesh - and they rightly should.
This is an excellent article, but one has to ask why the author is not vegan. He obviously knows about the issues: animal suffering and environmental destruction. It is time that he looked very carefully at his own motivations.
7
@Mary Are you saying that you can only see one side of the issue? Vegans annoy me not because they make me feel guilty and unsettled - I have come to an abiding peace with the fact that I will have to kill something to live - we all do - even you. Do you think for a minute a plant based diet for the masses will kill/displace no animals? Better to be honest about the life and the death necessary to maintain life - all life. No free lunch - not now, not ever. Thats just the way it is and pretending anything else is just pretending so one can feel no guilt.
4
@mark Apparently, you come from the "Don't plants have feelings, too?" school. Vegans do the best they can to cause as little damage and suffering as possible. Do you?
10
I was looking into the, Cargill Grain Company, my namesake out of personal curiosity. I read about them having business operations in, Brazil. Looking into it further soy bean production is part of their business there. Now I understand the role soy beans have in the production of beef cattle and the role growing soy is playing in the, Amazon, slash and burn agriculture. The link is the production of meat and it is plain to see it is our, Achilles heal. This is not fun and games or child's play we have to fire with fire! Withholding money from the meat economy is another version of slash and burn!
2
The issue isn't whether or not we eat animals. The issue is whether we eat foods that are extractively or regeneratively farmed/raised/caught. We need to avoid eco-lunatic agriculture, and support eco-logical agriculture. Eco-logical agriculture mimics nature in its biodiversity and beneficial interdependence of animals and plants as they together generate abundance, creating considerably more output/acre than does monoculture, though the output is composed of smaller interdependent amounts of many different foods for us and food and habitat for other living creatures.
6
There is room for everyone. No moral superiority is needed. But I have had my own experiences with Vegans proclaiming how wrong I am for being a meat eater. There is a moment that was filmed in "I'll Have What Phil's Having" while eating lunch with Allison Janey at the Grand Central Market in Los Angeles, and some stranger walks by and dishes them for eating meat. So maybe you need to ask Vegans to be thoughtful to others who aren't like them.
7
I made the below comment yesterday which has since been removed--I wonder why? Perhaps those paragons of virtue/veganism will brook no dissenting opinion.
If you want to see how lovely and endearing vegans are, monitor responses to this article or spend 2 seconds on facebook as they try to dismantle any meat eater or any farmer who is trying to do things a better way with livestock [in other words, NOT factory farming]. I totally support anybody's right to eat as inadequately as they like [more meat for me!] but I wish vegans would give the same respect to everyone else.
5
If you are having trouble understanding vegans, consider how you feel about cannibalism. Vegans simply extend that feeling to include all animals. Now how comfortable would you be eating out with friends who are cannibals and mock you for your choice not to partake?
4
This is a no-brainer. I'll stop mocking vegans and respect their nutritional choices when they park their obnoxious self-righteousness and respect my nutritional choices.
9
It's not the veganism that rankles so much as the vegans. The jokes and the ridicule exist for a reason. The practitioners have brought it on themselves. They're comparable to newly-minted teetotalers, those who've just discovered religion and newbies to politics. Relentless proselytizing is an act of self-actualization. They are insufferable.
10
Thank you very much for your empathy. This should be a much more prominent topic in the media.
4
For some of the comments here referring to masculinity - please go out and see 'Game Changers' on September 16! It shows how world class athletes are going plant-based to up their game...plants ARE power!
7
I have multiple food allergies, it's SUPER hard to survive in a world which had zero consideration for a very restricted dietary needs. You HAVE to be religious about how you eat when you have multiple food allergies. But you never try to convince others to have them bc TBH, it stinks.
Vegans, OTOH, are preachy, annoying, and tiresome. Vegans evangelize. They are holier than thou. They are selling something that I am not interested in buying. You typically can't shut them up. They completely DON'T CARE that you are not interested. Farhad Manjoo's "joke" is NO JOKE, it's ACCURATE. I've never met a vegan who wasn't preachy. Get one talking!
Here's why:
It's pretty HARD to be a vegan in a world that doesn't eat like you and doesn't care unless you're nutcase religious about it. Because if it's NOT a religion to you, you wouldn't go to the trouble. It's HARD--SUPER hard--to carry on a restrictive diet in a world that doesn't respect your restricted diet... a LOT like having multiple food allergies.
I can't eat MOST of what you find in stores. Occasionally, I can eat the "accidentally vegan" things, or the expensive purposefully vegan things bc they don't have my allergens in them.
Point being, people would make LOTS less "fun" of vegans if vegans were not so outrageously annoying, evangelistic, narcissistic, holier than thou, and they bothered to listen to others instead of talking over others. It's great that vegans want to eat only vegetative matter.
No one else does.
6
I suspect that the adults who express contempt for vegans are the same adults who, in comedic fashion, express impatience with and disdain for children (such as Bill Maher). They need to kill the child in themselves and banish anything that seems to them childish.
1
Vegan for 7 years, atheist since age 12, and don't give a hoot what others' think of me since forever.
11
“Indeed, preachy vegans are something of a myth.” No, they are not a myth. Just like people demanding special pronouns, they have a way of popping up and complaining. Especially online.
8
I was raised as a vegetarian but am not as healthy on that diet. I don't eat fast food or junk food. I am so, so tired of people beating me about the head (in articles) about what they assume all Americans are eating (junk food) and about how bad meat is, yadda yadda yadda. It makes me want to go out and eat a big steak--and I don't even like streak much. It's none of the public's business what I eat.
3
Thank you. A million times thank you.
1
The linked documentary below should be viewed by everyone (Dominion). You really want to know how the vast majority of animals are treated in this industry? I became vegan for the health benefits, but stayed for ethical reasons after seeing movies like this. Absolutely horrifying, glad to not be a part of this anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
7
Veganism is a luxury of the Leisure Class.
14
This is such nonsense. The latest studies have shown that the vegan diet is not the best and most sustainable diet for the future of the planet. It comes in 4th at best. Nobody makes fun of vegans. Vegans are religious zealots, who once converted, start accusing everybody around them of being murderers. They make their own case why nobody should listen to them. They are lucky all people do is laugh at them.
8
@Jonny Walker fourth best after what? and what constitutes "best?"
2
This is ridiculous. Where's the proof that everyone is mocking vegans? That study the story links to is not talking about vegans themselves, but rather food products that are labeled "vegan". Yeah, maybe people find that word unappetizing, but I don't know anyone who mocks people who are vegan; some of us are even somewhat ashamed in their presence. Most of us would like to eat less meat because we know it's bad for the environment and our health. But thanks for the schooling.
1
Hope you eat farmed fish. Wild fish is the most abusive way to eat, basically hunting in the water.
Vegans are funny because they also don't like non-killing uses of animals and insects, like no honey or dairy or eggs.
There would be no chickens, no cows, no pigs, no goats, no sheep if not for meat eaters.
2
i have been told that farmed fish is also bad for the environment and they give chemicals to the fish. i try and follow Fred Rogers and eat nothing that had a mom.
1
@David Female cows are inseminated to keep them pregnant and lactating, and their calves are removed so humans -- not the calves -- can drink their milk. Male baby chicks are "culled" (a nicer way of saying "killed") because they can't lay eggs. For vegans these are some of the ethical reasons for not consuming eggs or dairy. Honey and wool are considered not vegan because they come from animals, although at least bees and sheep aren't killed for their goods.
3
Hear hear!
On the whole, we need more vegans and less factory farming. Each individual decision contributes to the overall result. So, I stopped mocking vegans long ago, and I encourage friends when they casually mention transition to a more plant based diet. I reinforce with information about how much better they'll feel without that rotting meat in their guts. I would support a consumption tax on meat as well; if we tax tobacco and alcohol to discourage harmful activity, why not tax meat?
I figure that, for every 2 ribeye steaks I convince my friends NOT to eat, I can still eat one. I've moved the needle, and I get to eat the most delicious thing ever. It's a win-win.
1
I don't care if you are a vegan, please don't care that I am not.
111
@Kathleen What a sad reaction to the article. Not caring is how we arrived at this place of cruelty and devastation in the first place.
100
@Tom. Exactly. No one with a conscious should care if someone is vegan, in fact we should probably be thanking the vegans for the sacrifice they’re making for the common good. However everyone should care that people aren’t... I mean, read the article. The impact to the environment of farming cattle if enough to care about. It’s significantly damaging the planet we all have to live on.
38
@Kathleen
I doubt anyone cares what you eat, Kathleen.
Many of us do care that animals are systematically tortured, rivers are polluted, and forests are leveled to support meat production.
At least acknowledge what your food choices entail.
82
Actually, a mixed farm with varied crops and dairy is sustainable - where manure is used etc. But factory meat raising is not. And we in the West have a food culture that comes from the mixed farming that worked. It will take a lot to change. By the way, if we simply change our protein but continue to grow our population, we are not sustainable, however we get out food.
6
Most vegans have good friends who don't think twice about eating meat, yet should one raise the issue it would jeopardize the friendship. Meat eaters have to ignore what goes on in slaughterhouses, or disassociate themselves when they read about the environmental destruction linked to cattle ranching to avoid feeling guilty... Ultimately though, I believe or at least hope, we are gradually moving to a more civilized, humane society where meat will be grown in labs for those who still want it. America might lag behind other developed countries though. Look at Switzerland, where it's become illegal to boil live lobsters!
3
Veganism is necessarily of the present.
The past reveals no vegan people group anywhere ever.
What have existed, do exist, and will exist are ecosystems. So any truly sustainable future food-production will need to imitate ecosystems.
There are no ecosystems that don't involve the interconnected life and death of animals.
I would rather have a field of edible wild greens like dandelions, dock, chicory, etc. and eat some of the resident rabbits (and greens) than buy a bag of kale harvested from some field where all but kale has been killed or displaced.
I agree with many of veganism's critiques of industrial agriculture (e.g. a rabbit farm would probably be horrific), but a vegan food system is ecologically impossible.
What we need is an integrated, ecosystem-based, regenerative approach that fully acknowledges how nature works and that we are part of it.
7
@Boris the Prol what do you think humans ate before they learned how to kill, cook and domesticate animals?
2
I had the honor of attending the Official Animal Rights March in Berlin, Germany last weekend for the second year. It was through that FB page that I came across this article. Thanks for the mention btw. The March was incredible! I became an ovo-lacto vegetarian 12 years ago after seeing my first animal slaughterhouse video on FB and after learning there are no happy cows or egg laying chickens became vegan 2.5 years later. I spent the first year or so consumed by guilt over all of the meat I had eaten in my lifetime. I shared graphic posts on my social media pages and was a preachy vegan. That was how I handled my guilt and pain. I have lightened up over the years. Mostly because my own posts broke my heart over and over again. But I have always been proud of being called a vegan. I will never shy away from that term because it is exactly who I am. I do everything I possibly and practically can do to end the suffering of animals. I'm not perfect. In fact, there is nothing in the definition of veganism that says I have to be. And I have been mocked, teased, and ignored by omnis for years for being vegan. So, I was completely shocked by this article. To have an omnivore finally admit that I am right. That I am on the right side of history. I sobbed through the entire article. Thank you Farhad Manjoo. Thank you so very much for opening your mind and your heart and being willing to share that with the masses. You would make a great activist. We'd love to have you join us!
6
To me, it is a very simple and plain proposition: animals raised and cultivated in constant suffering pass that suffering on to those who eat them.
3
Being a vegetarian for 28 years, I've been attacked endlessly, though I try to keep my choice to myself. Still, when questioned about why I don't order a meat dish, or why I won't go to a meat-focused restaurant, just revealing my vegetarianism seems to throw down some sort of gauntlet. I recall that one of the most public castigating of vegans came from Garrison Kheillor; almost every Prairie Home Companion episode had a vegan joke...it always surprised me how Kheillor could be so liberally inclusive, and yet strenuously demean vegans any time he could. This writer it correct: people who attack vegetarians and vegans are simply feeling guilty at the torture their meat and dairy choices create.
5
I went to Burger King last week to try the impossible Burger. As I was standing in line, a guy next to me said he tried the impossible Burger once but didn't like it as much as beef therefore he was not going to consume impossible Burgers anymore.
Yes, the impossible Burger does not taste exactly the same as grilled beef, but it's fine. It just makes me frustrated that people will continue their meat consumption just because it tastes a little different.
Food consumption seems to be all about taste, and nothing else.
2
@cheddarcheese This attitude is hard to understand. It didn't taste the same, but did it taste good? I would ask. I think it tastes pretty good, as do the Beyond Burgers. Black bean burgers don't taste anything like hamburgers either, but I like them a lot.
I lived in England for a few years (before going vegetarian). Other Americans there didn't like the beef. I thought it was fine. Different tasting but equally good. Thing is, over there, where we lived, everything was free range, organic, grass fed. So the beef we were eating there I imagine tasted like it was SUPPOSED to taste :-) But since it was different that what we get in the US, many declared it not good.
I don't eat or otherwise consume any animal-derived product of any kind, and I have not done so for something like three decades. But I don't call myself "vegan"—I've seen how much that little word terrifies all the delicate people out there who aren't able or willing to deal with the realities of their own lives. And I don't wish to cause them so much harm and pain by using a word that evidently causes them such anguish.
4
I am thankful for this article. As a vegan, I am so used to the ridicule, mockery, and abuse, to the point that I barely notice it anymore. And I totally relate to the impulse to censor myself just to avoid the comments that I have heard millions of time. I am hyper-sensitive to not becoming the 'preachy vegan' and I end up not standing up for something that I believe in so strongly.
I think that most of the hostility towards vegans is veiled defensiveness of one's own diet choices, which means that deep down, most people know that their diet is a) inconsistent with their views on animals and b) recklessly harmful to the planet. My just being vegan in their vicinity points out their hypocrisy, even if I don't say a word, and therefore they feel the need to lash out.
It is disappointing that our culture is so obsessed with meat and animal products that someone who chooses to abstain from these things for ethical reasons is considered a deviant and that even they are fearful to voice their beliefs. Especially since the animal agriculture on the industrial scale that people are so defensive of is actually ruining the planet for everyone.
People are so eager to seem environmentally friendly, but are unwilling to make any sacrifice. And they defend their selfishness as their right to ruin the planet with such a deep conviction that is so American.
8
Let's attack the main causes. Nothing against vegans, but they are putting out a small fire on the stove while the whole city around them burns to the ground. Cell phone manufacture and use, constant demands on energy require the overwhelming use of fossil fuels, which is what is destroying the planet. And give up the SUVs. Was in Europe recently, only saw small, fuel-efficient cars on the road.
1
@orange At least vegans are doing SOMEthing. Have you given up your car and/or cell phone yet? do you walk instead of driving or taking a taxi or rideshare?
I, too, noticed all the small cars in the UK and Europe and wished there weren't a parade of enormous SUVs clogging up my street (and they are parked on the street because none of them seem to be able to fit into their garages).
3
Yes, I take public transportation and walk most everywhere but I live in NYC. Also have very old phone and minimize use. How about you?
2
Any species born with the makings of a set of incisors, and not just molars for grinding plant material, would seem to be fully equipped to handle actual meat from actual critters.
My doctor suggests the best diets involve meat only five times a month, but to deny your body any meat at all seems to involve taking more chances than most folks should try.
But guilt-tripping people for the maintenance of large herds of cows to feed humanity is a joke and will always be considered a social nuisance.
2
Thank you so much for this article. In this day and age, anyone making compassionate choices should be applauded rather than ridiculed by others. It is one thing to live with a nonconforming choice but it is another thing to be harassed for it or to be on the constant receiving end of jokes around the office cooler.
5
I am not "proud" of being omnivore. I don't think that others have to be ¨proud of being vegan". I've never mocked vegans but I think that eating reasonably everything doesn't make anybody a "sinner", responsible more than others of the destruction of the planet.
3
I love this article and tell people that eating animals is cruel. I loved my cat, and think that our food animals are every bit as lovable as our pet animals. But it's people. Some even abandon their pets...their children. A significant portion of the country was okay when the administration caged children. I have no hope for the animals and because we are so myopic we are dooming ourselves as well. I don't eat animal flesh (will have dairy and eggs) I encourage my family to do likewise with poor results
4
No, they aren’t right. I’m tired of the new religions that overcome common sense. ‘‘Tis not enough for individuals to follow their beliefs; they have to paint the rest of us as immoral. Enough. I’m not comfortable with churches doing this and I’m not having it from vegans or anyone else.
5
I don't mock vegans but I do thing that to them being vegan is a conservative religion. They gleefully attack anyone who is not vegan. I've yet to see any real scientific evidence that the production of meat animals significantly damages our Planet. OTOH, it takes far, far more acres to produce the same about of vegetable protein than is does to produce animal protein. It take more water, more pesticides and more chemical fertilizer too. Vegans have no idea about the enormous amount of water it takes to grow rice, wheat, oats, fruit and other vegetable products.
3
I only mock those who deserve it. Most vegans don't. Some do.
In college, there was a group of four extremely strident, in-your-face vegans in our dorm. We called them the high priestesses, and they had a singular knack for undermining their cause.
One day in early fall, as the weather got cool, they were handing out pictures of dead sheep to everyone wearing a sweater, saying "This what your sweater cost!" Against my better judgment, I tried to tell them sheep are not killed for their wool, because if you just shave it instead, it will make more wool. They could not be convinced.
There were plenty of other examples, like one of them gathering signatures to send to Congress demanding a law to ban all meat and other animal products nationwide. When I asked her what she would suggest doing with the hundreds of millions of animals that no longer had monetary value, she had no idea. When I mentioned the economic collapse from the hundreds of billions of dollars invested in the industry suddenly becoming worthless, she didn't understand what I meant.
Personally, I prefer healthy food. I'm in med school - I understand the health concerns. Probably four out of five of my meals are vegetarian. I'm more likely to go for carrot sticks or grapes as a snack than anything. But sometimes only a bacon cheeseburger will do. I don't feel bad about that.
It's all about moderation.
And don't even think about coming for the leather in my shoes.
2
I am okay with vegans, just not with militant ones, those who seek to impose their views on me and who profess that theirs is the only way. Biologically, we are constructed to be omnivorous. But we might opt for not eating meat every day; we can avoid wasting food and, most important, we can control our own population numbers.
1
I remember ordering a veggie burger at the Hearst Castle Park café and having the cook insert a chicken breast in addition to the patty. Could that have happened accidentally? I never spoke to the fellow--no preaching possible. I also remember the hecklers who would harass every vegetarian on the usenet vegetarian newsgroup. No one went out to recruit them...
2
Preachy vegans? Common ...really?
When ever I read an article about vegans all I see in the comment section is “I only eat grass fed, free range, hormone and antibiotic free beef chickens pigs (even emu!- yes emu...see WAPO article from last week) from a farmer that I personally know, who respects the environment and loves their animals like their own children.....yada yada yada. It’s funny actually.
I’m don’t want to call these people liars, but....it’s hard for me to believe their claims and it doesn’t impress me one bit even if it’s true.
I have been a vegetarian for nine years and I tell lots of people about it because I have a funny story behind it and it’s one of my go-to stories at parties and at work events. People seem to like the story and I have never been given any negative feedback about my vegetarianism to my face about it. though a lot of people seem to be very worried about me not
getting enough protein- kind of then to worry; their concerns are taken as sincere. I usually respond that I’m a long distance runner and cyclist and then ask do I look protein deficient? Maybe that’s preachy?
As for as being a killjoy- I haven’t been to a restaurant in a long time that can’t accommodate me. So I never object to my friends choice of where to eat out.
6
Wonderful column, thank you! Being a vegan is one of the most logical, compassionate things you can do. As you say, "vegans can marshal stronger evidence to support their claims than adherents of many other belief systems," and yet people somehow think it's ok to mock them, though they would never dare mock a kosher or halal diet. At root is, as stated here, denial, guilt and cognitive dissonance, and sometimes a little jealousy, I think, of people with the willpower to make a sacrifice. But mocking people who are trying to end the toturous suffering of animals that YOU are causing, is really about as low as you can go. If anybody should be mocked, it's meat-eaters, who require endless numbers of animals to suffer and die very young, day after day. How would you feel if you had to die as a young child for someone's sandwich? Would there be any way in your mind to justify it? What kind of hypocrite must one be to wish that on another creature?
6
Stop being so self rightous and all knowing about everyone else's lives. Spend some time in other peoples shoes before you criticize their choices. I'm not criticizing anyone for being vegan, but lack of thoughtfulness comes in many forms. I kill every animal I eat myself. If you can say that about every vegetable you eat (and don't forget to add in the collateral deaths of animals that are sacrificed to farming so you can feel pure) then I will listen to you sincerely.
The root of the problem here is simple. Its not whether or not any particular human eats meat or vegetables. Its the simple fact that there are too many human beings putting too much pressure on an over pressurized system. If you want to help out then quit having children. Period. But no one wants to touch that sacred cow.
4
@mark Yep, the sacred cow that no one will touch, the elephant in the room, is people having too many children. That is the issue behind most issues. Too many people using rapidly dwindling resources.
4
By the way, did anyone read the article in today's NYTimes about how NYC is considering banning foie gras from being sold in New York? If you don't respond to that process with disgust then you don't have a soul. And beware -- on the NYTimes site there is video of a goose or duck being force fed through a tube. It is appalling culinary practices like this that inflict unspeakable cruelty onto animals that make people stop eating meat and possibly even become a little preachy about it as well.
I hope the ban goes into effect -- maybe those 400 people who find themselves out of the foie gras industry can start a mushroom pate business.
6
I started out vegan and now am about 90% plant based with an occasion urge for fish and chips or tuna sushi. I do a bit of real cheese when dining out but don't miss dairy or eggs one bit. Let me throw in that vegans and vegetarians can be as snarky as meat eaters. I found I do like Beyond Burgers with my plant based cheese yet recently got a stink eye and nose wrinkle from a vegetarian who just thought plant based meats, since they taste like beef (sorta) put me back in the omnivore crowd. I guess I am not pure enough. To which I respond, bite me! I will put my 90% up against any snobbo vegs/vegans anyday. Throw in my CSA, small, old house, small car and disdain for plastic bags and paper towels, I have a very workable plan that could be adapted by many.
5
@Alistair Day I have had that attitude toward me too. "If you are a vegetarian, why do you want something that tastes like beef?"
Well, because it tastes good. Just because a follow a vegetarian diet, doesn't mean my taste buds died!
3
Oh, come on. Bashing vegans is good, all-American fun!
I too am not a vegan - I'm an ovo lacto veg who loves my cheese. But I have enjoyed cooking for my vegan friends, and as a result have found many new and interesting cheese and egg replacements, and cook vegan more often now that I have the confidence.
I'd like to suggest that even if you're an omnivore, try buying a vegan cheese or sausage. The more we support these companies, the better the products will get - they have come a very, very long way over the last 10 years. And you may discover something you love that will diversify your menu options.
1
I have been a vegetarian for nearly 20 years. Recently I’ve noticed that when people learn I don’t eat meat, their first question is no longer “How do you get your protein?” but “Are you vegan?” My answer is apologetic: I aspire to be vegan but can’t quite get there yet. That’s all I say. I have no wish to shame anyone over their food choices, and I don’t remember ever being responded to aggressively or impatiently. Many of my friends are vegetarians and I’ve never heard anyone get preachy about it.
69
@Darcy YOU CAN DO IT! it's easier than ever to leave cruelty off your plate--vegan cheese, etc. is so great these days (and boy was it BAD). so great that you're heading in that direction!! :)
10
I am, Like Mr. Manjoo, a vegetarian/pescatarian, eating fish infrequently. I still like the taste of meat, but I have made a commitment not to eat it anymore.
I feel no need to judge anyone who eats whatever he wants, nor do I need to preach to anyone.
Each person is responsible for the consequences of his own choices.
2
In the summer of 2012, my late wife's kidney function deteriorated to the point that the nephrologist said that if she did not start dialysis right away she would die within months, if not weeks. Instead, in order to reduce her kidneys' workload, she went vegan.
She lasted three more years before her kidneys gave out. she then went on dialysis.
The vegan diet, which restricted protein intake, is the only factor accounting for those additional three years. no other variable comes close to explaining it.
We had been transitioning away from a standard American animal protein diet for years. Going all vegan was not that difficult for either of us. She was approached by some other kidney patients, who found it too difficult to quit animal protein cold turkey.
The best way to go vegan is to start young. Later, during adult years, if you want to go vegan, give yourself plenty of time to make the change.
BTW, people who think of themselves as omnivores should consider eating horse, dogs, cats. When our sone worked in China some years ago, he was served rat several times.
5
Thank you. People can be very hostile to a message that tells them the way they have been living and eating is morally wrong and harmful to all. I try to think of it that way when I feel sick over all the animal torture in factory farms happening 24/7, as we speak.
403
@Carrie
Exactly. All anyone with a conscience and heart has to do is watch a video or look at photos of what farm animals endure in the meat and dairy industry.
54
@Carrie Since the advent of civilization, the reality is we are parts of collectives, not individuals. To the extent we have democracy, we have a duty to obey the will of our fellow citizens. But we don't have a duty to make individual sacrifices that others are not required to make. The solution to immoral practices is to make them illegal. When things are framed as a matter of individual choice, that conceals the fact that it shouldn't be an individual choice, everyone should be forced to comply. Farming should be regulated to be more humane and sustainable, which would make meat and dairy more expensive. In the meantime I live in the world I came into and I make choices that are practical for me.
15
This really illustrates the original post's point. The above reply, which could be used to rationalize virtually any immoral behavior that doesn't land you in jail, shows how far people are willing to go to rationalize their behavior when longstanding practices related to food are subjected to even the most basic scrutiny. (The above reasoning could also be used to excuse one's participation in segregated institutions in the 1950s, opposing gay rights up until a few years ago -- or, heck, even just plain vanilla immoralities like cutting in line at the supermarket if one feels it is more "practical for me.")
Why is it that people are willing to throw all moral reasoning out the window when it comes to hamburgers? I mean, we're talking about hamburgers, not life or death, not whether your kids get into college, not anything else really big. Why are people willing to go to the ramparts morally over eating meat?
32
My daughter, who's a high school freshman, is vegan. She's already learned not to be preachy or self-righteous around others about her diet, but her peers--even some of her close friends--still seem to enjoy teasing her in ways that bring her pain. I hope that many NYT subscribers who are omnivores read this article and finally realize that "preachy vegans are something of a myth." Many thanks to Farhad Manjoo for shedding more light on this topic.
669
@Pam J
My own anecdotal experience (which includes high school plus about 20 years) is that the vast majority of vegans are indeed preachy.
Your daughter might want to revisit that old preschool morality tale about sticks and stones...
32
@Pam J Teasing about anything can make people feel bad...so we all need to work on that.
I think it would be much better for the writer to say why veganism is desirable. Some people will be convinced. "To love and celebrate" a person for being vegan? That really does play into the snowflake stereotype. Why do we need to go there?
14
@asdfj
Anecdotal evidence is unreliable in this case, as a non-preachy vegan would never identify themselves to you as vegan unsolicited, thus not providing you with an anecdote to oppose the stereotype.
I, for instance, have been a closeted vegan for about a year. Almost no one knows my dietary preferences outside of close family.
The public perception of vegans as repellent is self-perpetuating, as only the most confrontational and activist individuals care to advertise themselves as vegan in the face of that stigma.
49
My wife and I became vegans a little over two years ago, although we allow ourselves one fish/seafood meal per week and family holidays off to avoid alienating our families and allow for some traditional meals. Although we had been mostly vegetarian for decades, the push to go vegan came when my cholesterol kept creeping up and my doctor wanted to put me on a statin. After one year, my cholesterol, as well as my blood pressure, were down enough to get my doctor to relax. However, we also were very aware of the greenhouse gas emissions related to animal production (which was the reason we stopped eating beef and other mammals 30 years ago). Anyone who reads the news knows we are rapidly approaching, if we are not already past, a critical tipping point. As I write, the Amazon (a tropical RAIN forest) is in flames, as is Siberia and parts of Africa, We are out of time for smug carnivores to make fun of people who are trying to help by making changes in their personal lives. I would also just say that with a little creativity, we have found our vegan diet to be delicious! No regrets at all!
4
@PWV
There is a difference between eating a mostly plant-based diet and being a vegan. The word vegan was coined in 1944 and it is defined as "a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose." Vegans don't eat meat, dairy, fish, eggs, or honey, and don't wear fur, leather, or wool, attend horse racing or go to Sea World on vacation. Vegans don't eat fish one day a week or take holidays off. I sound like a "preachy vegan," but words matter.
2
Thank you for this article! As a 23-year vegan I have heard it all. But now, because of social media, the animal cruelty cannot be ignored anymore, and neither can the damage we are doing to our health and the planet. The world is finally listening to the vegan message. There are those that still mock us, but there are many more who are joining us.
5
How many more vegetarians might there be if the everyday person had to kill and butcher their own cows?
6
@Andree And how many vegan if they had all to grow their vegetable and the soja?
1
Wow, what if one were an atheist Vegan? Would there be anyplace you might be welcomed?
Thank you for giving voice to us vegans Farhad. Wonderful piece where you acknowledge your own inadequacies with regards to food choices. I became vegan partly because of milk intolerance issues developed later in life. But the salutary and environmental benefits of being vegan are alone enough to adopt this lifestyle choice. Even in my travels to predominantly meat eating countries, it has not been that difficult to find vegan choices, although they are still very limited. As for others making fun of us vegans, well, they can continue their merry ways if it gives them that much pleasure! :)
4
No, continue mocking them. First of all, "In a first world setting, the reality is that going entirely vegetarian for the rest of your life means you reduce your emissions by about 2%, according to a study of the environmental impact of Swedish vegetarians.
To put this into context: either you could go vegetarian for the rest of your life, or you could reduce your emissions by the exact same amount by spending a little more than $3 a year" on carbon offsets. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/07/25/vegetarianism-climate-change-meat-vegan-livestock-column/1804090001/
Second, eating protein--much easier to get from meat--is a good way to prevent obesity and diabetes, and to maintain strength into old age. Our bodies become less able to absorb protein as we age, so we need to eat even more to help prevent age-related loss of muscle and strength. Want to be able to walk up stairs, carry your groceries, or not fall down when you get old? Lift weights and eat protein.
3
It's not your being vegan that is offensive...It is your choice what you put in your mouth after all.
What is offensive is the constant moralizing and proselytizing that you gratuitously offer without invitation.
3
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
1
Your wrote: " I make an effort to avoid meat, but ... ... still end up eating it several times a month, especially fish."
When did fish become meat ???
1
meat is animal flesh. Fish are animals, ergo
1
The only thing ridiculous about vegans is their naive urbanized worldview — they believe nuts and soy are raised without killing animals.
4
"You are what you eat". Eat factory farmed chickens, cows, and pigs, well guess what? It will not be good for you.
There has to be a better way to eat without causing immense suffering.
1
Vegans are the future. Join us.
10
When I became diabetic, veganism saved me from my brother’s fate of morbid obesity, lost vision, heart disease and neuropathy.
Saving the planet is a nice side benefit, but I’m ashamed to say it was not my primary motivation.
However, just because something is vegan doesn’t make it healthy. Sugar is vegan. However, it’s benefits for the planet and the economy are undeniable.
Btw, new vegans can be a little strident, especially when the topic of food comes up, which is pretty often. I certainly was.
Vegan absolutists are the worst, but fortunately, they are in the minority.
7
We need a column about this? Really? Protect vegans? I'd rather see you write about the real injustices against people in the US, like black & brown, like Muslims, like the queer teen.
You can eat or not eat anything you want, please don't prosthelytize .
And don't carry on telling anyone you're more "enlightened" than I am
I think you put this perfectly. "There are many theories for why vegans have it so rough, but the one I lean on is guilt and cognitive dissonance. "
I've been vegan for about 2 years now and have been self-conscious of this myth and have made an effort to avoid speaking about my diet. Inevitably I end up talking about it anyway at almost every meal when I order vegan and get grilled about why I'm not eating meat.
Ironically more often than not the most obnoxious people I've met are preachy bacon enthusiasts but no one seems to have a problem with that?
9
I grew up on a farm in Ohio where we butchered our own steers and venison.
I could share stories of the INCREDIBLE cruelty shown by hunters (especially after drinking moonshine all night) but I won’t.
Then I ended up in Hawai’i after the Vietnam “police action” and we used meat as a condiment. A few shreds stir-fried in a wok w fresh produce. Then I simply quit all flesh 10 yrs ago...have an egg or two a week and haven’t missed any of meat....and eat tofu a LOT.
The only one who knows my diet is my oncology MD and I have to work to get 60 grams of complete protein a week.
I watched as steers were sent to feedlots--crushed together and fattened w corn...which is NOT a normal food for them. Hundreds of bawling cattle headed for death and dismemberment. And the calves? Dairy cows start lactating after giving birth. The calves are IMMEDIATELY separated as a cow will only produce as much milk necessary to feed her offspring. Well we want big time production twice a day with milking machines.
Those little guys (Calves are all male as the females grow to be milk producers--not so much use for males--only one bull needs to service a herd) stumble around, bawling for their moms--the moms crying back for their babies.
The calves are put in tiny pens so the meat/muscle remains tender. Think of THAT next time you eat calf.
I live on a sailboat off the grid and don’t even eat fish...they DO feel pain. I have no leather, no plastic throwaways.
It’s a sustainable way to live.
9
This is complicated, even for someone like me who has not eaten meat in a few decades.
(1) Chicken is way more environmentally reasonable than meat. The feed, water, and real estate needed to produce one pound of chicken is so much less than for one pound of beef. Take it easy on chicken-eaters.
(2) It's good to be kind to animals, but please know that plenty of animals eat ... other animals. Your cute puppies and kittens are in that category.
(3) You still need protein. What does an ethical vegan say about eggs? After all, the hen does not die until she has reached old age.
5
@Gary Good points, but you can get protein and B-vitamins from plant sources. And cats are obligate carnivores, while humans are not.
3
Amen.
2
From the horrific animal cruelty that is the meat, dairy and egg industry, to the fact that our planet is going to hell because of these disgusting violent industries, there's simply no reason for anyone not to go vegan.
9
Life with dignity.
Isn't that what we all want? Shouldn't that be at least one of our core values?
Animals raised to be slaughtered for the human pleasure of eating them is not life with dignity, for them.
It was justifiable when meat eating was necessary for our survival. It no longer is.
5
It's time to look holistically at our consumption of all products. Yes, veganism is probably best, but it's caused people to consume almond milk at rates that are having a negative environmental impact, requiring unsustainable amounts of water in drought-stricken California. Personal care products may be cruelty free, but contain palm oil that is destroying habitats of animals. Unless you live in an avocado growing region, your avocado required oil to be trucked or flown to wherever you bought it.
Nothing is ideal, but everyone should do their part. The biggest problem is both simple and complex: there are too many people on this planet. You may be vegan, but if you have children, you're contributing to the demise of the planet as much as cattle farming. Bummer, but true.
Shop locally, consume responsibly and don't reproduce!
4
There is a Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation (CAFO) about 3 miles from our cottage on a lake in southwest Michigan. When the wind is out of the south, the smell can make you physically sick. The lake empties of kids and boats, I let the weeds continue in the garden for another day, and the dog misses her long rambles. The three miles between the "lagoon" and my house doesn't serve to dissipate the smell enough to make it bearable. But our government has made it impossible to challenge the smell--farmers are king in the legislature. We should package and pump the smell into the capitol on the days the legislators consider making it easier to foul our environment to produce disgusting meat.
But we are not helpless. I have completely given up eating pork from any source that can't tell me it is a real farm and not a CAFO. If animals are living in with this smell--and scientists tell us how smart pigs are--then I want nothing to do with their meat. Their lives must be horrible indeed, and I won't support those who create these hideous conditions. I may love bacon as much as the next carnivore, but it's a satisfying strike back at disgusting farming practices to refuse it.
Farhad is right--the Vegans are onto something. Thinking about where our food comes from, and making choices that push the market in the right direction feels good. Your food dollars are power. I enjoy using that power more than I enjoy badly produced meats.
9
Promoting lacto-vegetarian diets would be better. If raising animals for slaughter were outlawed, the total livestock herd would necessarily be reduced to a sustainable size. Vegetarians are naturally inclined to treating animals with kindness, so the animal abuse problem would be easily be solved. Such mutualist symbiotic relationships are preferable to eliminating domesticated animals from the world.
When vegans assert that lacto-vegetarian diets are unethical (which is not unusual), they are undermining the reason that would make many people quit eating meat. Getting satisfactory nutrition on a vegan diet is more difficult than most people can accept. Dairy makes avoiding meat much easier, so advocating for lacto-vegetarian diets should be much more successful. Furthermore, modern studies have found a lacto-vegetarian diet can feed more people than a vegan diet, which reduces the ecological burden from agriculture.
4
@Paul Howard Diary is profoundly cruel and, yes, unethical. Google "dairy auction" and let me know if you can stomach what you see. And, NO, it is not difficult to get satisfactory nutrition on a vegan diet.
4
I am 100% on board with the ethical and environmental reasons for vegetarian and vegan diets.
However I'm not on board with the absolutism, the nutritional deficiencies that many long-term vegans I know suffer from (yes, it is true and unmentioned in this article), and the lack of accepting that our culture and our bodies evolved to eat some animal products.
Please eat less meat. Much less meat. Please only choose ethically raised animal products. But please also spare us the absolutism.
14
How many long term vegans do you know? What are their “nutritional deficiencies”? Every major health organization says veganism can be a healthy diet for all stages of life. Lots of meat eaters have nutritional deficiencies too.
2
@Emd
Your post is certainly not true. Please see the 2016 and 2017 reports from the German Nutrition Society. Please see the recent Australian case.
There is no viable non-animal source of Vitamin B12. Yes, flax seed contains it. No, no one eats enough flax seed to get enough B12. I went through this with my PCP who was also vegan/vegetarian.
I'd be happy to read any other major health organization reports on veganism being health "for all stages of life."
3
Thanks to Mr. Manjoo for this important article. I work in a graduate school, and part of my job is to organize community events. At recent events, our caterer has complained that the students were wiping our the veggie burgers immediately and leaving the meat behind. Whereas vegetarian options used to be an afterthought--maybe 10% of the menu in the past--in the future I will need to increase plant-based options to at least 50% to satisfy our students. The next generation is already on board.
For myself, I am an omnivore who is becoming more and more conscious of my choices. I am gradually striving to be aware of the source of my food and the cost to animals and the environment. When I was in college, you were either a carnivore or a vegetarian, but now I see more and more opportunities for a plant-dominant diet and more room for a middle path of conscientious and ethical food choices. I regretfully admit to some eye-rolling in the past in response to vegans, but I now feel great admiration for choices that benefit animals, the environment, and human health. Thanks again for a great article.
3
I love eating meat and I refuse to turn act of consuming food, meat especially, which an enjoyment to mere sustenance; however I have nothing against most vegans, call it indifference, they should have the freedom to choose their lifestyle without facing judgement and harassment, like everyone else, including meat lovers and drug addicts. I refuse to turn act of consuming food, meat especially, which an enjoyment to mere sustenance.
I see the general idea behind the author’s whole argument, but I’d like to urge the author to refrain from using phares such as “the right side of history” since that carries the argument in to the territory of value judgement. Anything considered a ‘progress’ in history is necessarily the result of ideology and value, rather than historical fact, due to the nature of progress itself. This simply defeats the purpose of the author’s writing, since in the in battles fought over the territory of value judgement, where everything is up to preference, social status, and past experience, the fundamentals behind all values: ridicule and sarcasm, dare I say venom, do become legitimate weapons.
If we are talking about preference, you can’t stop anyone from calling vegans sentimental, sanctimonious soy boys.
3
The rain forest is not burning because humans need more land to cattle farm. There is plenty of unused tillable land in the USA.
It is being cut down because humans who live in Brazil, desperate to make money, are cutting the forest to raise cattle. We do not NEED them to do that and it has nothing to do with my chicken sandwich.
3
I respect vegans and even indulge many vegan and vegetarian cuisines. However, vegan's will only stop getting mocked when they turn down their militarism and shaming of people who eat meat. You can't have it both ways.
6
It’s true most places offer some non-meat option, but choosing double appetizer isn’t much of an option either. It’s like picking angel hair pasta at an Italian place and it feels like you’re playing Sally (in When Harry Met Sally). “I’ll have the Caesar salad, just the salad, no dressing and no bacon, and I’ll have toast but without butter.”
You might be accommodating your carnivorous friends, but any considerate friend realizes you’re not getting a meal. Everybody’s having a good time, except you. A typical American night out (as promoted in advertising) is not about ethics, it’s about decadence. The party pooper didn’t forget their ethics at home like everyone else.
So a quiet vegan can try to practice their morality privately or try to find likeminded friends. Potlucks and hosting friends at home can be great for this, but it also makes vegans insular. Maybe that’s the idea, or was until restaurants offered vegan options.
But with those options, more people can see veganism as an option. Bringing a vegan along is viable, but ghosting then on pizza night goes on.
In other countries, the shaming can be a little different. People from poor places can see veganism as a smug luxury. Food is food and not eating meat dishes is condescending. People see meat as a sign of development and efficiency, so being vegan is like continuing to look down on them despite their progress. Food is also communal so being vegan is a way to say, “I’m not with you.” It’s a long road ahead.
1
I'm not the only one who says it vegans, climate change hysterics and religious fundamentalist have a similar traits. A religious fundamentalist will say your sins brought gods punishment on you. A vegan will say it's eating meat that caused your cancer. The righteous can't keep it to themselves and don't care they are being cruel expressing their beliefs. Studies exist stating diet causes a multitude of health problems. There also studies that say lack meditation and pray, and indeed a lack spirituality causing our health problems. Do we want to hear it?
On an emotional level most us of don't want to get caught up in other peoples fanatical beliefs be it religion or pseudo science. It doesn't stop the the righteous, though. I don't know if it's us trying to have control over our lives, the uncertainty of our own personal futures, or we are trying to be good little boys and girls our parents wanted us to be but it does get annoying.
3
Good article. "Many omnivores understand the toll that meat wreaks on the planet." No, they don't. New York Times could do the world alot of good by running a series on exactly how "chicken"--and pork, and beef, and veal, and dairy, and eggs, and yes, fish--are processed from start to finish. Then omnivores will begin to understand the toll that meat wreaks--not just on the planet but on billions of animals EACH DAY around the world.
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@JCX I agree and would love to see some real confrontation of mass meat industries! However, I think it would also be great to highlight the work of small farms and the people running them. There are some really great independent farmers who are raising animals responsibly, and making ecological care and sustainability a main concern. For the omnivores who are ready to reduce their meat and dairy consumption, let's point them toward the local, sustainable farms that are taking significantly better care of both their animals and the earth.
7
@JCX Those animals only exist for meat. If you stop eating meat, those animals will only exist in zoos.
Big agriculture is not so great either if you think all "destruction" of "natural lands" is bad, and the more they study, the more they learn how smart plants are too, so the ethical issues only continue if you think that life should exist without killing other life.
5
@JCX Totally worked for Upton Sinclair
3
Many thanks for this article!! When I see a big spread of food at a party or banquet, I don't see something delicious. All I can see is the suffering!! The non-human species we share this planet with also feel, experience fear and other emotions, and they also love. A story I read of two dogs being used in research, one blinded and one crippled. The crippled dog pulled itself over to the one that had been blinded to lick its eyes. My three rescued dogs sleep around my chair as I type. They deeply love each other and me. And they mourn. When I lost an old dog the younger one would not eat or hike, just laid behind a chair. I took her to the vet. Nothing physically wrong with her. We had both lost a great love. I feel it is so important to honor and respect other species. They are amazing in ways we do not even understand. We can learn from them. It is the human species that has created so much misery and destruction. Now we are on the verge of destroying the earth on which we all live. The last on the evolutionary line, we need to learn from our ancestors, the non-human species.
6
the plant-based 'meat' most likely is worse than plain meat on at least one count: consumes much more energy in the conversion - and hence worse on environmental impacts.
2
I don’t know where you’re getting this information, but it is simply not true.
3
I have quite a few vegan friends; I don't mock them, I uncomplainingly serve vegan dishes when they visit, I respect their choices. I also do not see a meatless/dairy free future for humans. Maybe it's my lack of imagination, but there are too many traditions, cultures, recipes that we have shared for hundreds of years based on meat. It would take another century of concentrated effort to eradicate that from our culture. These are the choices I've made: I am meatless for five days a week, and eat meat on no more than 2 days/wk. I avoid fast food. I am Italian-American, and while I don't cook like my Calabrian grandmother all the time, I cook like her some of the time, and it is sublime. It is important to me to connect to my heritage and culture through food. I don't know how the human race will give that up. I'm not a pessimist, I just think the challenge is to honor both people's connections to their culture, and also the planet, and set our sights at a sustainable future that includes a limited consumption of animal products. Of course, we should have done that a long time ago but the fact that we didn't makes a future of widespread veganism even more remote.
3
I already gave the vegans in my social circle a chance. They certainly altered how I thought about vegans.
I understand that the "social militant phase" is now out of fashion among vegans, but please understand: those of us who did give them a chance were given a good kick in the teeth by those same folk who are whining about bacon jokes.
PETA's recruiting efforts directed at elementary and middle school aged kids caused more than just annoyance for the parents who had to feed them: they were complicit in promoting disordered eating. Who better to recruit than youngsters developmentally ready to assert their independence, not ready to understand the consequences, and on the verge of a growth spurt.
I have spent a lifetime practicing conservation, best farming practices, and cultivating a modest diet. Do not expect me to acquiesce to the sacrifice of my child on PETA's self-sanctimonious altar without a squeak.
4
Yes, it would be healthy for the world and the people in it if we all ate less meat.
But forgive me for not being more empathetic for vegans and vegetarians when their friends or relatives tease them about their choices or ask them to explain why this choice is important to them. Personally, I never ask for an explanation or justification when someone shares this information with me. But nevertheless, 85% of the time I will hear it anyway.
Is it really so different from the burden experienced by fans of a losing sports team, or members a less-popular political party, or a minority religion, or people who live in a certain neighborhood or region, or people who have unusual hair styles, birthmarks, body shapes, or clothing? Only boorish, rude people expect or deserve your rationalization for these things and you should feel no obligation to provide one.
1
Thank you, Mr. Manjoo, this is a fantastic article. This also is a great opportunity to bring up the concept of carnism, which explores thought process and mental gymnastics humans use to justify most behavior they subconsciously know to be dubious (e.g., this paper’s record of shaming The Clinton’s and sticking up for Donald Trump, or the editorial board’s continued employment of Bret Stephens).
1
Maybe if they weren't so insufferable about their beliefs trying to impose them on everyone else and shaming people for doing what humans were designed to do they wouldn't elicit the ire of many omnivores.
4
Failed vegan here. The ethical and environmental arguments for veganism (although not the health ones) are completely convincing to me, so I went vegan, strictly, for 8 months. I certainly had some enjoyable meals during that time, but contrary to what everyone had assured me, the strong cravings for meat never went away. I also lost some muscle mass. In the end, I relapsed.
For people like me, maybe the way forward is not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Maybe pledging to make one meal a day vegan will still do the planet, and the animals, some good. Saving part of the rain forest is better than saving none of it, right?
2
Nooo! I thought I was safe from guilt by eating only chicken and fish. I did not know eating chicken was contributing to the destruction of the rainforest. Why did you have to educate me?? Sigh, now I have to look at what chicken I can buy that is not fed by food from foreign countries...
My disconnect with veganism comes from the fact that the only vegans I know think it is immoral to kill and eat an animal, and I simply do think this way. I do not mock them however. I agree with the writer in that they are right. Not necessarily that it is immoral to eat animals, but that eating meat and dairy is very harmful to the environment. Go vegans! Go vegetarians!
As a vegan, I never volunteer this info to anyone. Interestingly, when people ASK me if I eat meat, and I tell them "no", almost without exception, they launch into mockery. A very close colleague laughed snidely, "oh, is it for the animals?", and when I said "yes, it is", all he could do was change the subject. It seems to me people are deeply threatened by the idea that someone cares about other living things, and about the planet. So the real question is why do meat eaters need to bully and belittle vegans?
9
It's not just meat that is killing the planet it's food as entertainment. I've seen some incredibly trashy places in this world and 99.9% of visible trash seems to be candy wrappers, potato chip bags, plastic bottles, yogurt containers... Meanwhile there is massive deforestation occurring in Borneo for palm oil for your potato chips.
2
According to the World Resources Insitute, beef accounts for about half the land use and GHG emissions associated with the US diet, but provides only 3 percent of the calories. That is ridiculous waste!
Poultry does , much, much better.
1
Great comedy piece. I laughed a lot.
1
I am sick to death of people who use the phrase "killing the planet". Humans cannot kill the Earth, this planet will be fine. What we're working on is how long humans will still be present on it. If extending that means that we have to listen to vegans lecturing us on the immorality of meat, I'm fine with an early bedtime for the human race.
2
If one has to choose I would suggest reducing meat consumption as much as possible would be a priority over celebrating vegans.
1
All the vegans I know are the type of people who talk about their choices way too much, to the point of being evangelical. Only, they’re boring, dry, repetitive evangelists. Maybe that’s what keeps them from going back to meat. In other words, by all means, go ahead and mock them!
Like the people you may know who used to be addicted to drugs or alcohol but now mention Jesus constantly, they switched compulsions but remain a pain.
I’m a vegetarian 40 years now but I would never broadcast that. We’re omnivorous by design and animals will only stop being slaughtered for the majority of people when meatless burgers and meatless Tbones actually offer a richer taste experience than flesh.
2
i like meat. i am an animal lover and but it does pain me to think about the manner in which meat is currently produced. not enough to make me stop eating meat, but i would rather eat meat grown in a petri dish. please hurry this technology up.
I am mostly vegetarian, eating seafood on occasion. However, I find the obsession with creating a vegetarian or vegan 'pretend' meat fascinating. There is so much variety in the vegetable world, why would I want to eat a fake deep fried chicken patty? Or a faux bloody burger? I understand that many vegans and vegetarians choose their diets not because they don't like meat but to protect the environment and thus may want to eat something that mimics the meat that they miss but wouldn't we be better off simply eating vegetables?
What is this piece about? Not making fun of vegans or the environmental benefits of veganism or both? Who really gives vegans a hard time -- is there such a pressing need to defend them, or this is just a way to signal virtue on the part of the author?
1
My sister has been a vegan for the past five years and I have not eaten meat for 22 years. The title of this article is ridiculous. Who is mocking vegans? People may ask vegans questions about how they do it, but mockery is very uncommon. The author references one, maybe two opinion surveys, but does not provide hard data.
Head on! I prefer not to tell people that I am vegan, because of the inevitable conversation and ridicule that comes with it. At work I have to sit in meetings with meat eaters and their comments.... it would be nice to get some more recognition but I do not see this coming anytime soon!
Oh the delicious (vegan and gluten-free) irony...
...writing a preachy article about how veganism isn't preachy and is morally superior.
Might I suggest instead of trying to create shame around meat eating and claiming persecution for being 'ethically superior' why not try framing it in terms of positive things like "Go meatless one day or for one meal" Writing about that would be effective and far more thought provoking than this piece.
If the goal really is a reduction in meat consumption wouldn't it be more effective to promote something like that instead of "I have to bite my tongue about my beliefs" Most people have to bite their tongues about their beliefs multiple times. It's being an adult. And no one is going to become vegan/vegetarian because someone's feelings got hurt...especially over something that not everyone agrees is a moral or ethical issue.
However if your goal is to wear a cape of self-righteousness and moral superiority then keep doing what you're doing.
1
I'm a vegan, but had to quit an online vegan group because I'm not vegan enough. The wife and child aren't vegan, and I'm not a food fascist. So, actually, vegans aren't as socially innocent as the author implies, at least not all of us.
1
Building a sustainable environment is a wonderful and necessary thing. It's also true that most farm animals in the developed world are kept under grossly cruel conditions that are unsanitary and environmentally unsound. To the extent that vegans oppose these things, it makes sense to support them. However, the ethical issue of refusing to eat or use animal products out of a respect for living things is, to put it mildly, confused. Plants are just as much alive as animals. They suffer stress, with elevated cortisol levels. The vegan attitude of treating only animals as "living" amounts to a sort of nervous system chauvinism; because other animals remind me of me more than plants do, I'm going to value those animals more than I do plants. Sorry, it doesn't work. Not ethically, but also not environmentally, where the interplay between plants and animals is necessary for the environment including the maintenance of a breathable atmosphere. If we're going to eat, we have no choice but to eat living things. That's how nature has evolved. It's not pretty, but it's real.
3
Thank you for this article. Besides the fact that they are right about ethics and the environment, they are also human and such unnecessary comments hurt them. People need to let go of their hate. Vegans don't hate you for eating meat, they are trying to educate you. Why get angry and offensive about it?
2
This is coming from a 35-year-old, male vegan, raising two vegan kids:
Don't even do it for the animals, for the ethical arguments that concern them. Look at that later.
Do it for your own children. For their kids. That meat you're eating, it's killing your children's chance to live in a stable, living world. If you can't consider changing your lifestyle for the sake of your children, I don't know what to say.
217
@John: I love your comment! You're spot on, sir.
7
@John I am an ethical vegan who cares less why people do it; just do it. Agree.
8
@John: Perfectly said. I have been mostly Vegan (dairy sometimes last couple of years) for nearly 10 years now my husband, youngest daughter and her husband are also. It's so much better for the environment and the animals. I would NEVER eat chicken again!
7
This article doesn't reference the cruelty free use of animals, opposition to which is much more difficult to comprehend. Wool? Dairy? Eggs? Horseback riding? Herding and other working dogs?
Impossible burgers are the beginning of the veg revolution. Eat plants!
I don't ridicule vegans. I would appreciate not being verbally bludgeoned for deciding not to become vegetarian or vegan.
Spare me the photos of the Amazon, the ever so earnest/self-righteous/shaming admonitions about eating meat. Spare me the 'friends' who intone "I don't eat anything wirh hooves ".
And oh, yes, I do maintain social media accounts. I do own and watch TV.
Have a nice day!
1
Even if everyone in the world went vegan overnight, there would still be too many people for the world to support sustainably. If you want to help the world with your daily choices, by all means go vegan. But also stop having children.
2
@Roger Demuth
A very male response to a complicated problem. Most woman want children. How long will the line "honey the planet doesn't need more children" work, before you get dumped. Kind of selfish when you think of it when we're in co equal relationships.
If you look at it humans figure out how to survive. Look at all the plagues, epidemics, wars and natural disasters it might not be the best of all possible worlds we have it good today and it will only get better. Living in fear is a empty life.
1
Thank you for this! As a vegan I thankfully haven't faced much in the way of criticism from people I know, but hoo boy! so many comments on news and social media stories are just mean spirited. Who are we hurting by not eating meat?
I don't judge people for eating meat, but I will call them on their hypocrisy if they criticize folks simply for eating plants and plant-based foods while not acknowledging the actual cruelty and suffering endured by the animals they eat.
3
Amen to this article!
I have nothing but admiration for vegans. I wish I had their strength, but as of yet, do not. For the time being, I simply try to eat as consciously as possible when it comes to meat products (still not close on dairy). If I feel I must have meat, I try to go to a restaurant where I know the meat is locally sourced. If I need to buy it at home (very rare, usually for pets) I go to Whole Foods, with its 5-step animal welfare rating, for that. I avoid leather and other animal products but am not there on wool.
Vegans are to be commended. But for those of us who do not have the fortitude to adopt a complete vegan lifestyle, avoiding products that contribute to factory farming, etc., is one small step we can take.
We shouldn't let perfection be the enemy of the good: Be as conscious and compassionate as possible in all your choices, and the world will be just that much better.
1
I feel like Clark Kent, waiting to come out as super vegan !
Yup, been banished by friends and family for they past 40 years! Time for vegans to be mainstreamed. Hope more people read up on diet and get healthier.
4
I'm not a vegan, but I very much sympathise. I don't drink alcohol. I don't proselytise or make a show of it, but the extraordinarily negative reactions I get when people find out have always shocked me.
I think you are spot on in asserting the role of guilt. I figured out at a young age that people were projecting their own issues onto me.
1
Former vegan and current 90% vegetarian/10% pescatarian (I use the Monterey Bay Aquarium's guide to help me make ethical decisions about fish). I was never preachy because what one puts into their own body is a deeply personal choice.
I think the best thing a person who eats a lot of meat who wants to know more is just respectfully ask, "Why don't you eat meat?" If you don't want to actually know, don't ask and don't have a sarcastic tone about it.
I had a coworker ask me about it respectfully when we were lunching together. We had an interesting and, again, respectful conversation about it. I was not judging him for his steak burrito and he was not judging me for my bean burrito. We were just exchanging views. I explained the challenges I experienced when I gave up meat (for me, the #1 thing was to stop thinking about meat as the center of a meal).
Some time later, he came up to me and said he had reflected a lot on that conversation and had decided to start doing meatless Mondays at home with his family.
5
I don't have anything against vegans or vegetarians, have friends in both groups, but if you are talking carbon footprint, many fake meat products are taking up just as must energy in production and distribution, and it is debatable how healthy they really are.
Mass production if meat is harmful, but small free range farms etc
are not bad for the environment.
Meat is not the culprit it's the mass production of it.
Unless vegans are doing all the work to only use local fresh fruits and vegetables and make their own versions of meat from legumes tofu etc, they are a part of the problem.
Mass produced faux meat products use vast amounts of soybeans and other land grabbing components, so they are just as bad as meat.
It's the height of hypocrisy.
3
citations, please?
2
Vegans yes, should be afforded greater respect, but Mr. Manjoo points out a dynamic here that is far more prolific, and potentially destructive, than veganaphobia, and that's the tendency for us (people) to externalize our inner conflicts, in so doing creating false polemics. As Mr. Manjoo points out, we know better, we eat meat anyway, and mock vegans because of the discomfort this causes. We know better, we engage in what we think of as harmless stereotyping anyway, and then blame the PC police for being too uptight. We know better, we go on vacations that cost as much as a person in another part of the world makes in three years, and then blame the GOP for income inequality. We know better, we turn on the AC, drive to the corner store, build a nice fire in the fireplace, then blame...well, the GOP for their ignoring of climate science. "We," is not, of course, all of us. But we all have ways in which we turn our own personal conflicts outward. Vegans are right - and Mr. Manjoo is right to point this out. There are a lot of people who are right. In fact, I daresay that everyone is right about something. And wrong as well. Maybe cultivating a more moderated sense of our capacities for right and wrong - one that allows for self-examination and change - is a way to love not just vegans, but a whole lot of others as well.
3
No, the world isn't going to turn vegan, but yes, we should eat less meat. But more importantly, it's also a matter of demand, supply, pricing and regulatory powers.
Brazilian agro-industry and their retailers would have bribed the right persons in the in the Chinese and US governments, but Europe should have the courage to sanction and boycott all animal and vegetal produce from Brazil for 5 years, and tax all flights to and holidays in Brazil to the tune of 100%, so that those greedy Brazilian companies, farmers and politicians see that it's not profitable to burn their country down for short-term profit, taking the world down with them. That would also raise the price of meat from its current ridiculously low levels.
A scientist has said every fifth breath we take comes from the Amazonian rain forest.
2
@Prof Dr Ramesh Kumar Biswas
Thank you for your post. I lived in Brazil in the 90s and I really love that country, its people and the culture. But even back then, the political leadership was advertising to businesses to come on down because there were no pesky environmental laws to hinder production. And many American and European companies took them up on their offer. I did leave eventually because of the illnesses I experienced due to toxic chemicals I was exposed to.
We need to have alternative options for these farmers in the north of Brazil as they are really poor and are taking the opportunity the Brazilian President gave them so they can feed their families and survive. Issues like these are never as easy as sometimes portrayed.
1
I think we would all be more successful in making change if we acknowledge that change does not come easily for most people. Meatless Mondays is a great start. Vegetarianism is another important step toward a plant based diet.
To focus solely on the habits of carnivores and ignore what we are doing to our oceans, to me, represents the height of hypocrisy. The ocean's health is far more important than bovine gas, given that water covers about 70% of the earth and bovine gas can be reduced by diet.
As consumers we can choose our food sources and should be as ethical as we are able in our effort to respect our our only home, this planet.
1
Hey V, I agree with you on most of your comment, but I do need to quibble one point. the issue with beef/dairy is not the bovine gas (although that's a part), but how many trees we have to bulldoze down to take care of cattle. Cattle requires a TON of land, more than pretty much anything else (other than sheep, although as Americans that isn't as big a demand). So the emissions come from the loss of trees, which both act as carbon sinks and, when you tear them down, release all the carbon they were storing. Hope that helps!
Source: me, a vegetarian who lived in cattle capital Texas, and several news stories about the topic I can link to if you're interested (NY Times actually did a good breakdown a month or two ago).
1
Well, i never use the term “Vegan”. It is a construct that implies an ethical radicalism for whatever reason. I do respect the ethical radicalism but it is not the number 1 reason i don’t eat any animal products. I do use the term “Whole Plant Based”. It better describes how i actually eat. 1 The evidence it is the most healthy diet has convinced me (what is the downside? your “pleasure might suffer“). 2. The absolute horrors and environmental destruction as a result of animal exploitation. 3. Global warming. Yeah sometimes i do fell smug when i tick all the ethical - environmental boxes and have the best health of any of my acquaintances. it’s a heavy burden.
And the best questions I get: What statin are you on (none)? and Where do you get your protein (no protein in plants, probably going to die soon).
2
Animal rights and the environment are valid reasons for veganism. But health is also and it's been neglected in this article. Plant based diets are healthy and can help Americans avoid diabetes heart diseases cancer etc.
4
I've known for a long time that raising beef is expensive for the farmer, consumer, and the environment. Not to mention the dedication of the cow. I ate meat because I cooked it for others. I consumed small portions, but still participated in the economic system.
I recently took a vacation and didn't order beef in any restaurant. I returned and simply haven't bothered to buy or cook it. It has been remarkably easy to cook without it. I can find proteins and tasty recipes. I can grill pineapple, corn ears, the occasional salmon. Don't miss or crave beef in any way for flavor, texture, smell, comfort, familiarity. I could easily stay on course the rest of my life without much thought or effort or pangs of desire.
So what, who cares, I'm nobody. That is, I'm everyman. If one other person tries to go without beef for a month or two, then shares that with one other person who then shares that with another, the grass roots movement will outpace the grass fed movement in a few years. There is no way we as a people can sustain or even care to keep our 1950's measures of a good life into 2020, 2030, 2040...
2
@larkspur That's how we did it -- gradually. It was easy to drop red meat, then we gradually phased out chicken and turkey. We occasionally grill a piece of salmon, but otherwise there is no animal flesh in our house, nor dairy milk or eggs. Cheese really IS the hardest thing to find 1-to-1 substitutes for, but I've adjusted. I always find it ironic that humans eat animals that are, by nature, vegetarian!
1
Thank you for such a thoughtful and intelligent article. We don't mock other activists - let's respect vegans for helping to create kinder, more sustainable world for all.
2
I'm vegan (with occasional fish) for health reasons. I made this change about 3-5 years ago when I became disgusted by meat processing, and I have never liked dairy products. I've since been diagnosed with hardening of the artier (hereditary - I also exercise in some strenuous form almost daily). I am thankful for all the food items that are sold to accommodate this, from almond-milk yogurt to tofu. I don't wear this on my sleeve, and people know only when we go out to eat and I have to figure out what to order. Only one person in our family group makes fun of me ("What DO you eat?"), but I honestly don't care, and figure the planet and I are healthier for it. The fact that I'm doing my puny part to save the planet is a nice plus.
2
I have been a Vegan for 34 years. I became one due to a health scare where I thought I had cancer due to my horrible "SAD - standard American diet" of meat and dairy products. I came to realize there were many benefits to being Vegan as listed in the other comments below. 99% of the time I have been respected and even envied for my dietary choices. I have been a positive influence on others. I understand everyone is doing the best they can and I respect that. As Gandhi said: "Be the change that you wish to see in the world".
3
If you read the article Manjoo references, the greenhouse gas argument isn't based on the raising of cattle per se, it's the clearing of land and use of fertilizer to grow industrial crops like corn and soybeans. Given that a vegan's diet is largely corn and soybeans, i'm not sure how this is saving the planet.
The truth is, we could help the planet not by abolishing meat but by raising meat in a sustainable way, as it's been done in Europe for 1000 years, by using land for grazing instead of tilling it and dumping in fertilizer every year.
But of course vegans would never go along with that because their starting point and ending point is about stopping people from eating meat. If they were about saving the planet from unsustainable monoculture agriculture, they wouldn't be promoting fake food made from chemically processed soybeans. And they'd be telling people to stop eating corn flakes.
7
@Tom B. Where did you get your information that "a vegan's diet is largely corn and soybeans?" If that's what you think, you're not paying attention to meatless and dairy-free food these days.
1
Thank you! I am so sick of vegans being one of the last groups it is ok for comedians to make fun of! Even my favorite talk show hosts, Seth Meyers and Trevor Noah, go for the cheap and easy vegan jokes. Same when I went to a live comedy performance recently. I am a 67-year-old vegan who became so when my son convinced me of the rightness of this change 6 years ago. It has been way better for my health, plus it's better for the planet (yeah, I want there to be a viable world for my children and grandchildren), and not incidentally, better for the millions of animals mistreated on factory farms. So fine, if I need to defend that, I will. Most of the people I meet say, Good for you. I wish I could do that. I'm trying to eat less meat.
7
Thank you for this article Farhad!
Up until about 6 months ago, I never even considered going vegan. It just wasn't on my radar, and I never thought very deeply about my food or clothing purchases.
It took a friend visiting me who patiently explained why she had gone vegan for me to start thinking about it, and then I watched the movie Earthlings and felt something break inside me.
I went vegan overnight. No baby steps or excuses. I feel healthy, strong, and reassured every time I cook a meal that I am doing the best I can do for myself, the earth, and the other sentient beings we share this world with.
9
I am increasingly convinced that all of the “we need to feed the world” stuff is just incredibly clever, insidious marketing. I believe we need communities to feed communities. If that means that people who live in locales with shorter growing seasons supplement their plant-based diets with the dense nutrition and necessary calories of locally raised and grazed beef or legally hunted venison, how is that irresponsible?
We already know that food aid we provide to other countries is basically useless (aka giant bags of flour stamped “from your friends in the United States”), whereas investing in micro farm situations in those communities actually puts chickens and milk on tables and money into local economies. Why can’t we see that the same principles apply on other scales? Give a man a fish versus teach a man to fish.
Animals are a necessary part of ecosystems and the food chain. Yes, we absolutely need to adjust our food system so animals live healthy lives and are granted the dignity of humane, painless deaths — but we (and plants!!!!) also depend on those animals (when wild or stewarded sustainably) to return nutrients to the soil, to promote plant growth, and to encourage a diversity of species. There is so much more nuance to the dialogue and the science than “all animal protein is irresponsible.” Know where your food comes from, know the conditions in which the farmers work, eat what's in season — even if some of those calories are from animals.
2
It's not "meat killing the planet", it's simply the number of people. Nobody seems to have the courage to address this. If we all became vegans and stopped eating meat, but continued growing the human population, we will eventually run out of spaces to grow soy. Truthfully, we probably already have, at least on a sustainable basis.
If we had a viable global effort to bend the population curve downward, revised our economic system to reward such efforts, and were on track to reduce the population of humans to 2-3 billion over the course of several generations, I'd give up meat *right now*.
Until then, I like my steak medium rare...
3
@whafrog That's why I'm a childfree vegan. They are not mutually exclusive...
3
Industrial type farming is what makes meat so cheap, at least to the consumer. Massive farms, antibiotic use, and less than humane treatment of livestock allows MacDonalds to sell 20 piece chicken nuggets for $4.99 ( 900 calories). Or Burger King's double cheeseburger for $1.69 (350 calories)
The caloric density of meat containing meals, plus taste makes it very convenient for feeding a family at a reasonable cost.
Reform livestock farming to make it more humane , ban the use of antibiotics except for truly sick animals, the price of meat will go up, plant based diets may become relatively more competitive.
Though meat based diets will remain more convenient as you need to consume higher volumes of plant based foods to get the same number of calories
I've been a vegan for 10 years (vegetarian for 20 before that). I never preach. But if I go out to eat people will always ask "is there anything you can eat?" and start suggesting items. It then appears that the vegan is dominating the dining experience.
So please just leave us vegans alone! We will figure something out, or will have a quiet conversation with the waiter and request a modification to an existing dish.
And please, please don't ask us if we get enough protein.
I really don't want to preach - but if you do ask me why I am a vegan I will tell you. In no particular order.
1. Meat farming is cruel. Really cruel.
2. Meat isn't that good for you.
3. The amazon, global warming, polluting hog farms...
4. I just feel better both physically and mentally.
5. My house never smells of burnt flesh.
I'll also offer suggestions on how to become a vegan, but again, only if you are interested.
And for the record, I don't do crossfit.
8
Th sad fact is that most vegan food tastes bland and unappetizing. A lot of work is going towards changing that but usually the first exposure someone has to vegan food (a full dinner rather than just a serving) is negative and that turns people off for life.
@Sk
On the contrary! The food is amazing!
I mean, IF you can cook meat well, you can cook vegan well. Same procedures. Same spicing. Just no flesh.
Last night, I made Seitan Pepper Steak (lots of ginger in there and sesame oil) with shiitake mushrooms over caulflower rice. On the side, an heirloom tomato salad.
Tonight, burritos with avocado, spicy black beans, broccoli....I'm getting hungry!
5
@Sk We eat amazingly flavorful meals every day that include lots of roasted vegetables, rice, beans or lentils or quinoa, creamy sauces, satisfying vegan "cheeses" and "ice creams" and layer cakes, cookies, pies, etc. My grocery bill is lower because I buy more fruits and vegetables rather than meat and processed foods (although there are plenty of healthy "processed" options, too). Vegan restaurants are popping up all over and vegan recipe developers and cookbooks are everywhere (if you're looking for them). A salad is probably most people's exposure to "vegan" food. There's never been a better or tastier time to drop meat and dairy from your diet.
5
@Sk That's on the cooks, not the diet. Ever eat Mexican or Thai? Meat and fish can also be bland. (I ate plenty of poorly cooked meat as a kid!)
4
There is just something about this guy that doesn't click with me. I disagree with most of what he says most of the time. I enjoy meat on occasion, and I think insect meat will prove promising for some eventually.
1
The young may save us yet. It seems more and more of them are vegetarian, and it's just normal for them.
3
I am a life long vegetarian. But I have never 'preached' about my diet. So it is disturbing to hear non-vegetarians mock vegetarianism! Even when it comes to this, these people have to resort to put-downs to elevate themselves? To ease their guilt - which I feel is unnecessary in the first place? One's dietary habits are personal and no one outside the circle of the individual's friends, loved ones and heath care providers has any business preaching about it. While it is OK to relate accounts of any benefits one has derived from their dietary habits, no need to preach or mock - from either side for that matter!
I'm going to guess the average Vegan drives a car. No one buys a car to save the environment. I bought a Prius. My brother claims I am a hypocrite because I bought a Prius, then chopped down a tree to build a garage for it. That's silly, I bought the Prius for 50mpg and less expense at the pump, I never considered buying a car was an attempt to save the environment.
There is likely another myth that you have left for another article....the myth that there is a giant group of people "mocking" Vegans.
I go out with several "meat eaters". I rarely hear anyone who is tearing into their steak mention Vegans at all.
Does the average Vegan feel like they are a minority, probably, and that likely sends up their defenses to be prepared for mockery. Have Vegans been mocked at a dinner before? Most likely. Have overweight people been mocked before? Needs no answer.
I get it, we should be polite to Vegans. But if you are asking me to support Vegans effort to build a sustainable environment while they are in their car, texting (like everyone else I see driving, everyday)......sorry, they really are just like everyone else. They are on the right path. Now stop worrying so much about what other people think. That's not the battle that you should try to or can win.
Calm down.
1
@M I feel like a key difference here is that a car is required due to the way infrastructure exists in many towns and cities. I would have no way to get to work without a car at this point. I don't like it, but the infrastructure was built long before I was alive and could vote. When public transport allows it, I'll begin using it. In terms of food, it's a relatively simple switch as long as you don't live in a food desert. I can get vegan food at the same grocery stores that offer animal products.
1
@M This is classic -- a person stops eating meat and dairy and suddenly THEY are responsible for setting a perfect example and saving the world, which deflects responsibility off of you and your meat eating friends to continue contributing to the greenhouse gas emissions caused by commercial agriculture. Yes, vegans are often mocked but we are more often puzzled about why anyone still wants dead animal flesh and parts on their plates.
4
I am a shameless, vegetable-loving omnivore. Since I try to avoid processed foods, I'm bemused by the amount of chemical manipulation that goes into manufacture of vegan products pretending to be meat. How much energy is expended in that process? What other polysyllabic substances are you consuming along with your "I can't believe it's not a burger?" What is the carbon footprint of transporting vegetables from California or South America to New York? (I don't know, but it's a question that needs to be addressed.) Is the chicken who lives next door to me (with a pretty good life, except for one very bad day, and whose eliminations feed my carrots and tomatoes) harming the environment more than the jet-lagged mango from Argentina?
Should I ever decide to be vegan (or even vegetarian) I'll stick to non-masquerading vegetables, preferably grown close to home.
8
Most chickens are literally tortured to death.
This reminds me of those beautiful Paleolithic cave paintings in France. Our ancestors sure liked meat. I didn't see any paintings of broccoli or carrots.
4
As a person who eats close to a vegan diet, I agree with almost everything in this piece. My only addition would be that vegan is not the only ethical consideration when it comes to whether food is "cruelty free" or not. I try to also consider whether migrant workers are being abused by the companies producing my veggies or vegan alternatives. It's not truly cruelty free if they are. Many bars of chocolate labeled "cruelty free" employ child slave labor in Congo and the Ivory Coast to create their products. Let us clap for instead of mock anyone who considers the ethical implications and the cost for sentient beings- human and non human- when they purchase food.
4
Thank you so much for defending veganism! When people ask why I went vegan, I explain how it dropped my overall cholesterol by 50 points and cleared up a whole bunch of weird minor health problems But I have to qualify that I’m a whole-food plant-based vegan, I eat very little packaged and processed food. We also forget how food packaging is also taking its toll on the planet and just because some packages recyclable does not mean it is recycled.
5
I don’t mock vegans but vegans often lecture me and refuse to have any discussion about what a future without cows, chicken, lamb etc would be.
I just spent the summer in the Belgian Ardennes. The land there is not good enough to grow thing other than potatoes that’s why farmers raise cows. They are happily munching grass on all the hills around. To the joy of my grandchildren two and four my neighbor’ s chickens thought the grass was greener in my yard. They observed how they were digging in the dirt to find worms and were allowed to go get some of their eggs.
What would our world look like without cows, sheep, chicken etc. They are not wild animals.
Farmers originally adapted to the land. Be vegan if that’s what you consider best but let other people hope we can get back t eating less but better quality meat, milk, cheese, eggs.
12
When Summer Anne Burton says “Even people who are really radical and progressive in lots of areas of their lives still seem really suspicious, frustrated and annoyed by the idea of someone being vegan", she is so true!
In India this takes a slightly different but not unfamiliar track. As many of you might know, in India, the choice of food is also a kind of an indicator of the caste. My advocacy of a vegan diet is viewed very suspiciously by my left wing friends with whom I agree on many things. They view my vegan preference is because I was born a Brahmin! For them my advocacy is about imposition of upper-caste food culture on the rest of the Indians!!
1
Now that's what I call an opinion!
I'm not quite ready to do the vegan thing -- what do you mean no Thanksgiving turkey! -- but I've found myself to be eating less and less meat every year.
Not because I want to save the planet. That doesn't seem possible given the way things are going.
No, my reason is that meat in large quantities as I used to eat it nauseates me. The discomfort of a roiling stomach and the potential embarrassment of heaving it all up in someone's living room inhibits me.
Also, the vegans I have met do their culinary thing with good humor and don't seem to mind a little ribbing about their eating habits.
Think what a chance might occur if, for example, Donald Trump eschewed cheeseburgers for impossible burgers. The loss of his dyspepsia might make the world a safer place....
I guess I should somehow be thankful that this piece was published, but I can’t understand how such a good argument for being vegan can be made by someone who... eats meat. I mean once you really relate accept that you are putting an animal in your mouth, how can you do it? I came to veganism in my fifties. I cooked and ate meat for decades. But when it clicks, it clicks. It just seems strange to me that it has clicked for this author and yet he eats meat for the most minor of reasons.
2
Where do vegans stand on the issue of pets?
1
People hate vegans for the same reason they complain about bicyclists. They don't like being reminded that their habits (eating meat, driving cars) is damaging the planet. At least they only dis vegans at cocktail parties, and not run them down in the streets, "door" them while passing parked cars next to bike lanes and "coal" them while passing them in diesel pickups outfitted for the purpose. You can tell when the guys (always guys) in the truck are laughing hysterically before they disapppear into a cloud of sooty smoke. PS I am not a vegan, vegetarian, or gluten-free.
4
@Coaled in Colorado I don't agree with that. As a cyclist myself, I will admit that many cyclists are extremely rude on the road. I try not to be.
1
Preachy vegans are a myth??? In reading comments on NYT vegan articles the past few months, I beg to differ. I'm sure in time there will be less poking fun at vegans as more and more people transition. But don't deny that the most outspoken vegans have brought this problem on themselves.
5
@Dave...
While more an more people will be vegan in the future, it will likely be a result of just more people in the world...
The percentage of people in society being vegan will probably remain quite stable.
1
Good for weight loss, too.
3
Not all vegans are particularly concerned about the environment or the treatment of animals. Some vegans choose that route strictly on the basis of health, wisely or not.
Personally, I've chosen a 95% vegetarian plant-based diet for health reasons. A few eggs from our own pasture raised flock (except in winter), and some organic milk.
1
This atheist and aspiring vegan thanks you.
Five years ago, I drastically cut back my consumption of meat and animal products. This was mostly for selfish reasons - my health. My new way of eating took some getting used to, and required a lot of effort learning how to cook tasty meat-free dishes. But over time I found that I took more pleasure in eating than ever before. Almost miraculously, my taste buds seemed to grow in sensitivity once the dominant flavors of animal meat and fat were removed, allowing me to enjoy a new world of culinary experiences. I love my whole foods, plant-based diet and will never go back.
There's plenty of evidence to show that reducing meat and dairy consumption has health benefits (reduced heart disease, stroke, diabetes, etc). Although I made the switch for health reasons, I'm glad to be doing something good for the environment at the same time. And I'm deeply grateful not to be part of the horror show of industrial meat production.
Really, the reasons to become vegetarian/vegan are so compelling (health, environment, ethics, even enjoyment of eating), it's hard to believe more people aren't considering it.
5
I can't tell you how grateful I am that you wrote this column. My wife is vegan and I'm vegetarian (still love pizza) and it rankles me to no end why people poke fun at vegans considering the damage the meat industry does to the planet on a regular basis. The only way we can all help prevent a warming world from causing mass extinction (including us) is to rein in our meat consumption. And at an individual level, we have this ability through our buying power and the food we choose to eat. Frankly, I'm thrilled at the rise of plant-based food manufacturers like Beyond Meat and Impossible because they are making strides to replicate the taste of the original which will hopefully convince meat eaters out there that the transition to a meatless world doesn't have to be painful (or tasteless). But Mr. Manjoo's acknowledgement of vegans' foresight in tackling this problem and defending animal rights (something which I'd wager most people would agree with if only they saw the horrible suffering of the animals we subsequently eat) will hopefully educate the public about one aspect of the climate crisis they take for granted - the negative impacts of meat production on our environment. I hope that meat eaters reading this column reconsider their own diet choices because we're at a tipping point. And if we don't get a handle on the climate crisis now, we're in for a rough future. So the first place we can start at least is to stop mocking those who are trying.
6
The essence of the meat eating problem - and many others, too - is that the human population has grown so incredibly big, so incredibly fast that we have to change our customs to keep from overwhelming the planet with our now antiquated (yet tasty) and unsustainable habits
4
I completely agree that factory farming is horrendous in every way. But why is the issue always presented as either eating factory farmed meat, or being vegan? I have raised some geese on my small farm for meat and eggs. They have very happy lives out on the green grass, and when they're killed it is done quickly and humanely. There are many sources these days of meat raised in healthy and humane ways. It is very beneficial to our bodies to eat small amounts of meat.
10
Ha, every vegan I have talked told me they were vegan--whether I wanted to know or not!!
6
@Red Rat I'm just curious -- why would you *not* want to know if someone is vegan? do they know you are a meat-eater, or is that just obvious by the way you eat? Vegans may want you to know so you don't offer them something that they can't/won't eat. Just sayin'.
2
You know what. I don't drink. I also don't talk about it, at all, because I'm very well aware that my personal choices bore other people to death. Good for vegans for choosing to be vegan. Now stop carrying on about it incessantly. Just. Stop.
9
It isn't meat. It is flesh.
And for anyone who says that fish have no feelings...why do they have to be CAUGHT then?
4
i was at the Stamford (CT) Food Festival last weekend, and notwithstanding the cheesesteaks, lobster rolls and donuts -- all of which were great -- by far the best thing I had was a vegan Jamaican "beef" patty. so good I had two. I'm not sure what was in it but it was probably the best Jamaican beef patty I have ever had.
3
84% of vegans and vegetarians will return to eating meat within five years - so don't mock them - just wait five years or so - then you can share inside jokes.
A vegan said to me people who sell meat are disgusting.
I said people who sell fruit and vegetables are grocer.
5
Vegans brought scorn on themselves by resorting to violence and vandalism against farms, food producers and restaurants to advance their personal agenda. Eat what makes you happy, but burning and ruining food that others enjoy is just wrong.
3
@Rick But cramming animals into commercial farms, grinding up live male chicks because they can't lay eggs, loading cows up on antibiotics, breeding turkeys so their breast portion is so unwieldy they can't walk properly, then slaughtering and hacking them apart is ... right? Asking for a friend.
2
Former vegan/current vegetarian here - and for the record, I have never mocked anyone for their choices. Here's something to consider: I frequently smell a whiff of toxic masculinity in the objections I hear.
"But what does your husband eat? Do you cook two meals?" Um, no... he eats vegetables with me, and nobody's come to take away his man card yet. He's not vegetarian, he just goes out if he wants meat or - gasp - cooks it himself.
"Oh, is it for the *adorable* animals?" Yeah, actually, and I'm not sure why the condescending tone is necessary. It's also for the environment, and my health, and your water supply, etc etc... but since I'm a woman it must just be that I saw a cute piglet, my ovaries twitched, and I started depriving my poor defenseless husband of bacon.
When we rethink the equation that masculinity is important above all else, and that manly men eat lots of dead animals, maybe we'll make some progress.
328
@Rebecca In my case, my mother had a difficult time when I became vegetarian 30 years ago. I finally told her I was not asking for her approval, just letting her know what was going on in my life. I'm grateful to the psychologist who told me that response.
13
@Rebecca. This is a good point. Fortunately, my husband and I are empty-nesters and have similar health problems / objectives. We build our grocery list together, make most of the meals together, and all of them are easily adaptable to include meat if he decides he wants that or when we have people visit. It really isn't that difficult.
7
@Rebecca Presumably you'd not prefer we eat living animals. The meat we eat is raised for the purpose of eating them, which is how civilization was established. If we instead had to forage for non-meat every day, we'd be like cows, always eating just to get the nutrition we need.
3
I'm an omnivore, and I don't care what people eat or don't eat unless they are eating at my house, in which case I need to know what they eat or don't eat so I can make appropriate meals. Other than that, it's their own preference. And I've never had a vegan or vegetarian lecture me on the morality of their choices, either. Much happier way to exist, IMO.
2
I am bi-vegan. Like some people are bi-sexual. Vegans are so negative: "I don't like this, I can't eat that". I am positive. I say yes to vegetables, I say yes to meat!
Scientifically speaking, our digestives systems are medium-length, between those of carnivores and herbivores. Thus we should consume a mixed diet, until we evolve in a few hundreds of thousands of years.
Yes, we should reduce meat consumption for the sake of our shared environment.
But a huge problem remains. Although Japanese, South-East Asian or South Asian vegetarian food is delicious, most vegan food is so incredibly, mind-numbingly tasteless and depressing! Sheer torture, that the world's population will surely not turn to voluntarily.
6
I've been a vegetarian, and have attempted the final step, but have never quite made it. These days I guess I'm mostly pescatarian, but would love to make that leap to plant-based entirely.
But I commend you for this article. I've even shared it. Will my friends see me as the pesky friend who is always sharing health, diet, and world eco-systems shares? Yup. I'll get blessed out before the day is over. I do think people see vegans as a threat to their meat eating ways. And that's the reason for the over-reaction to anything a vegan openly admits to.
But I do with they would see the truth. Our future existence depends on this.
2
It's immature to make fun of other people. That type of behavior is best left to the President of the United States.
5
Any group which professes an absolute and sole option can be categorically be defined as a religion. Such positions require absolute adherence to the faith and the strong wish to share the “one true path” along with a strong desire express their “superior” vision. Therewith comes the criticism.
I actually believe ( and believe science supports ) that “ near veganism” and near “vegetarianism” are the healthiest diets. The problem is there’s no identity for these more balanced diets. Here’s my suggestion. When someone questions or challenges your diet, tell them “I’m a PBO” which stands for Plant Based Omnivore” . This diet looks like vegetarian but recognizes that modest amounts of animal based protein is beneficial.
4
Let's not conflate responsible treatment of livestock that needs to be done humanely and with a mind towards survival of the planet, or with being a vegetarian, with the cultish, pseudo intellectual lunacy of veganism.
No, I'm sorry, if chickens are raised properly, not fed antibiotics, etc. eating an omlette is not a moral, anti-planet, food crime. No one needs to "mock vegans" they do a good job of that all by themselves.
7
"Sanitized" meat makes carnivory palatable.
Everyone should experience sledge-hammering the cranium of a cow, or hatcheting off the head of chicken - followed by ripping off the feathers or hide, then manually reaching into the still-hot abdominal cavity and drag forth the entrails.
If you can do this and still eat animals, try next to observe their claustrophic, panic-filled 'life' previous to dismemberment.
2
@Ann O. Dyne. My parents both talked a lot about having to kill chickens when they were younger and clean and pluck them before they were cooked. They both ate meat, sometimes two times a day. My mom was in pretty good health until she was 100 and died at 102. My dad only made it to 97. Until he was 92 he rode his bike every day and swam laps for a half hour every day the weather permitted.
4
Soy is a problem! Yes, some of it goes into animal feed but lots of it goes into vegan feed! And to imagine that you are saving the planet by eating tofu instead of chicken is really the height of narcissism --
3
@Becky
Actually studies show that over 70% of soy produced goes to feeding livestock. With a mere 6% being consumed by humans, and the majority of that is being consumed in asian countries. 🤭
1
An interesting column, but one of the dimensions missing from this piece is the overlay of classicism.
Vegans are threatening to some populations because they are yet another rebuke of the average working Joe and Jane, who feel squeezed economically and blamed for their failure to magically overcome the neoliberal wage squeeze.
Food is a huge class issue and people feel looked down upon for not buying expensive, organic, artisan raised foods at farmers markets and Whole Foods. They feel judged as ignorant rubes, when in fact they are victims of declining real wages and the emerging 3-tier food system. Of course, what they are is overwhelmed, and economically stressed.
Now they're being told they are ruining the planet because they don't embrace veganism--an even more expensive and time consuming dietary practice.
The reality is America is no longer a middle class country. Most people are poor or economically stressed. As good as veganism is, its only going to drive environmental change in the US when the most Americans are able afford to meet their basic needs.
Same goes for climate change and other things involving sacrifice. The prerequisite is enough margin to be able to sacrifice--i.e., relative privilege. That's what makes people angry.
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Eating Vegan does not require spending hugh sums of money and actually less for various protein option than meat, but it does require knowledge and education, so your premise is inaccurate.
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@Ben Yeah, I'm with Bruce on this one. Vegan can be much less expensive than meat, especially high quality meat. Rice and beans? As long as you stay away from packaged foods (which everyone really should regardless of diet) it will be inexpensive.
We stopped eating carbs and packaged foods a few months ago and despite spending more on meat, our bill is still cheaper - it's the processed snacks and such that are really expensive.
2
@Ben...
If if you go and watch for a while, the most popular counters at Whole Foods is their meat and cheese counters.
I’ve been a vegetarian for more than thirty years, long before the current popularity. I became a vegetarian because of the cruelty of factory farming. I try not to be sanctimonious. I won’t go back to eating meat, but I recognize that there is an alternative that includes ethical meat eating.
Consider this: Instead of growing soy and corn on the Great Plains and then feeding it to confined animals, return the land to prairie and restore wild roaming bison. Harvest the bison in numbers sufficient to ensure the health of the herds. The bison will live a good life, eating their natural food, even being allowed to mate, and then quickly killed. The meat will be healthier too. It would be expensive, so people would eat less of it, but that’s the point, less but better.
I live in a place where many people have large gardens, grow their own food animals and hunt. I won’t be going back to eating meat, fowl or fish, but I see how it can be done as humanely as possible with recognition that human beings are top predators.
5
I am a dedicated Vegan - I only eat herbivores.
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The fact that intelligent people still defend their meat consumption while pointing fingers at those who deny climate change is completely insane. They are both doing the same thing.
1
@Amy P. Yes, we are all a basket of deplorables.
Your remark will do as much for your cause as the deplorable comment did for the Democrats in 2016.
I work in the environmental philanthropy field where foundations are investing hundreds of millions of dollars annually to combat climate change. Yet at affinity group gatherings, dinners with meat (cows, pigs, chickens, the usual) and dairy is the norm and vegan options are either non-existent or paltry. Requests for climate and biodiversity-friendly fare are *ALWAYS* met with either sighs of exasperation or derision (those "bacon" comments mentioned in the article are real).
These are people that know better, among the most privileged in the world, with the means to chose anything they like for their dinners. So what do they choose? Amazon-forest destroying beef, while investing their foundations' dollars to protect the Amazon.
It's fine to tell other people what to do or to talk endlessly about policy initiatives and carbon reduction and technical fixes for climate change, but don't tell these people to change anything about their own lives. The cognitive dissonance and privilege is overwhelming.
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Thank you Farhad. This needed to be said and the reality of suffering, cruelty and environmental damage associated with the industrial, factory-farm meat industry should not be forgotten.
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But, but they are so easy to mock. And I say this as a person who agrees with them. The smug, self-righteous lecturing vegans make me long for a cheese burger and I don't even like cheese burgers. If they want to be persuasive, they need to change their attitude,
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Vegans are not right about the environment. They are population deniers, like all other liberals.
What people really need to do for the environment is not eat less or no meat. It's have less or no kids. There are too many people. It is the world's biggest problem and getting worse.
Veganism is just one more way of distracting attention from the root cause of our environmental crisis: overpopulation.
4
@r a. Well, you certainly seem to have something backwards. In the US it is not liberals who are defunding planned parenthood, complaining about sex eduactaion in schools, making it difficult for women to purchase contraceptives both here and in countries where we send aid. Your comment is something that would come under the heading of fake news.
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@Bashh
Liberals are population deniers. There is no noted liberal pol, scientist, celeb or whatever who will stand up and say that there are too many people. They'd rather talk about plastic straws. The NYT will never run an op-ed saying there are too many people. You're just not allowed to say that in the liberal media.
But this is not to excuse conservatives, who are just as indifferent to the environment, albeit without the crocodile tears.
Thank you @Farhad Majoo for this delightful article. So agree to everything in this article.
3
Thank you so much for this column. Now the Amazon is burning for the sake of raising beef maybe my friends who are overly vehement about eating meat will think twice about baiting me.
3
Everyone has their own beliefs as to what is good or bad. People will never ever agree on a specific belief no matter the data that is overwhelming in our society, the changes of our food recommendations etc.
And with all the false data out there today, what is one to believe anyway. We are now learning just how many corporate lobbyists put data out there to "sell" their products. One minute eggs are bad, next, they are not. Low fat is good, fat is good. Round up found in our food products doesn't even seem to upset Americans anymore nor is anything changing in our food processes.
Sugar in all our products and obesity increasing. Animal lovers etc learn of the cruelty.
Forming our beliefs is a personal choice and if vegans are or are not healthier, what business is it of someone else to judge it much less make fun of it.
This has the feel of a piece from thirty or more years ago. I thought the preachy vegan stereotype died around the time of the second Reagan administration.
I am not mocking vegans. I adhere to the saying "Live and let live". But I hate the militantly intolerant vegans, whose diet has become a political faith, very far removed from the vegetarianism of the medieval Manicheans and Cathars, and the present-day Jains.
Moreover, I perceive many of the vegans as hanging on the tailcoats of the leftist radical Democrats and their allies, the proponents of free recreational use of cannabis, whose ultimate goal is to covert all to lotus eaters without free will, blindly following the dictates of the left.
1
@Tuvw XyzThe vegan I know votes for the Democrat. The only half enlightened vegetarians I am related to both voted for and still support Trump. I guess there are exceptions to every rule.
You ignore the fundamental problem of treating food as if it were not deeply connected to our culture, our personal history, or individual and collective memories. I am not suggesting that eating meat is healthier or better for the environment, but that it is connected to more kinds of meaning than that and it can't be isolated so easily.
People react negatively to the idea of losing the tastes and smells of food they love, food that has been at the center of important moments of shared happiness. And that's the second part: food an essental part of how we connect with other people. Refusing someone's food is a profound form of rejection, a way of communicating that you reject their hospitality and, in some way, your shared humanity.
And you can add to that the fact that many items marketed as vegan foods are the products of industrial food science, rather than tradition. It means not just giving up the cup of hot chocolate like your grandma used to make for you, but replacing it with the chocolate powder that smells of the laboratory. In fact, that's too often the argument in favor of veganism. Not that we should eat more real foods, but that we should replace them with fake ones (see all the fake bacon, veggie burgers, soy dairy products, etc). It isn't surprising that people have visceral, negative reactions to saving the planet by eating in a way that seems to ignore basic aspects of being human.
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@Prairie Otter Well said. We should probably all eat less meat and definitely not eat industrially produced meat. That being said, farm animals have been a part of human culture for thousands of years and their bi-products (manure) are integral to soil fertility for growing vegetables. And then there is the new research that plants are sentient beings...Giving up meat to eat genetically modified, Round up laden, laboratory produced meat substitutes such as the Impossible burger is not the solution.
5
@Prairie Otter. Back in the days when the Jewish people in Spain either had to become Catholic or leave, their food choices were used as a way of accusing converts to Christianity of still being a crypto-Jews. The fact that they could not change the dietary habits to which they were accustomed was used as an excuse to banish them and seize their property.
Meat has essential fats, proteins, iron, vitamin B12 that you can't get from plants. This is just reality. You could eat a supplement pill, true. But what the heck is that... A pill... Very niche and specific. You'll need a doctor's advice, careful diet monitoring. A baby especially requires meat or they can't develop their brains and bodies well.
It's simply that we evolved as omnivores. It's who we are. It's a fact. They just dug up that old skull for goodness sake.
Of course, people can do whatever they want. But is it really better for the environment? Supplements require advanced medical knowledge (universities, labs, cities), factories, delivery systems, stores, marketing... western society in other words.
How much of earth's resources go into that supplement pill that you're taking?
What developing country will be needed to clear out for the mass of avocados or the latest seed or nut trend? Shipping them are we? Going to need a bigger boat, won't run on wind power.
Mass development of specialized foods for westerners who have specialized diets. You're gonna need a lot of plants and not in our backyard. Capitalism (with all its negatives) will run that system.
There is a lot of unknowns with these specialized diets. And there are a lot of unverified claims that I'm hearing.
We are omnivores. Animals eat animals. It's the cycle of life and life is not fair... we need to eat, so bon appetite.
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@Daniel just came here to say this is false and you would benefit from more research before you make claims like this. Did you know 95% of b12 supplements that are manufactured are fed to livestock? This is because they no longer have access to any natural diet that allows them to produce it themselves. So where do you get your b12 again? 🤭 In fact new studies are showing that Neu5Gc (found in red meat) is causing malabsorption of b12, especially in elderly patients.
2
@Daniel those "supplement pills" with B12 in them are called vitamins, something many humans ingest every day. And you might want to read up on vegan athletes, vegan physicians, vegan children of vegan adults, etc. There are more people dying from heart disease caused by their meat eating habits than there are people dying from eating fruits and vegetables.
The true irony here is that humans mostly eat vegetarian animals. Many farmers raise crops that feed animals rather than crops that feed people (and the farming of those animals uses outsized amounts of water and generates toxic runoff and methane gas). Life isn't fair, as you said, but mostly to the millions of animals that endure inhumane living conditions and then are "humanely" slaughtered each year. Bon apetit.
One might say that vegans mock meat, or that vegans eat "mock meat." Seriously, the benefits of a plant based diet are unassailable. If you haven't already done so, watch the Forks over Knives documentary here, https://vimeo.com/ondemand/forksoverknives
1
There are three things that no one wants to know about anyone else. First, that one doesn’t watch TV—or even own one; second, that one doesn’t have any social media accounts—Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.; and last, that one doesn’t eat meat.
I can tell you from real-life experience that a revelation or admission of any one of those three will rain down upon your head such defensive excuses and fearful resentment and eye rollings that you’ll want to run into the (rain) forest and never come out again.
Since I am cleverly disguised as Bluebeliever herein, I can boldly admit to all three of these transgressions without fear of reprisals.
I have never lectured anyone about their TV watching, twittering, or eating rotting carcasses of animals, but I can assure you that I have been subjected to all three.
But if anyone ever asks me again about where I get my protein, I just may scream!
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@Bluebeliever. Add not driving or owning a car, renting instead of owning and having no children to the list. But I do eat meat.
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@Bluebeliever
Thank you. Witness that people use arguments to support their behavior and deflect or deny arguments that contradict their behavior.
Protein is required in the diet. Beef is a good source of protein. Therefore, beef is required. It's a lever to beat you about the head with because you challenge assumptions. Funny how we identify with our choices rather than just see them as one of many possible choices. Hence the retribution generated. Your choices deny legitimacy to the identity of people and imply weakness of intellect. Nobody likes to hear that. Even if you don't say a word, they hear it in their own heads.
3
@Bluebeliever In addition to those three things, I like to mention that I've never owned a car. That really drives them up the pole!
6
I just finished a car trip through western Montana and north central Idaho. Everywhere I looked I saw herds of cattle, and giant sprinkler systems used to water fields where grass would grow to become feed for cattle. Once, outside Sun Valley, I saw a vast herd of dairy cows standing in piles of cow manure on bare ground. It was a sickly and disgusting site.
The results of this cattle meat production: the rivers, often ditch like, filled with green algae, run dry, emptied of water for meat production.
The air off the mountains, once pure and crisp, now fetid with the stench of cows milked to their agonizing death.
I stopped in Sun Valley to visit Hemingway's grave. Hemingway would have been appalled at what we have done to the natural earth in the name of meat. I'm sure he would say our spirits have been depleted.
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No one should bash anyone - including the vegan/animal rights activists bashing the meat-eaters. We all have a right to our opinions on a healthy diet, in terms of ecology and human health. But, frankly, vegans seem to be particularly righteous, as if you are so sure yours in the right way to eat... so, I kind of understand the backlash.
3
Mr. Manjoo, your article actually made me emotional, because in all the many arguments in favor of "meat and dairy reduction," rarely is the suffering of animals mentioned. Climate change, while real, does not always touch people to modify their diets. But for many of us who have loved domestic animals like dogs and cats, it's an easy jump to understand the pain and horror experienced by not so different animals like chickens, pigs, and cows. That human empathy for another living, breathing, feeling creature can be a rapid trigger, a quick motivator to change. It's what made me go from vegetarian to vegan a couple of years ago: when I learned about the extreme cruelty that's behind eggs and milk. The cruelty still exists; it hasn't been diminished by my abstention, but at least I no longer have to feel the extraordinary remorse that I've taken part in it in an active way. Again, thank you.
3
I have a really good recipe for black bean burgers and meatballs.
Took me months to perfect it.
Ta-Da!!
2
@joan. While I imagine your burger is delicious I can never understand people who won’t eat meat but are constantly trying to imitate it. Seems to me that if one has ethical considerations for being vegan or vegetarian you would get away from the idea that you must find a way to fake it or that it is desirable. There are all kinds of ways to enjoy the taste of beans without pretending they are meat. A black bean fritter, not a burger, beans and rice, pasta e fagioli, falafel, not meatballs and on and on. Forget about meat entirely and enjoy the taste of the vegetables for what they are.
A vegan coworker took some of us to her favorite restaurant once. She loved it because they served imitation spareribs, imitation meatballs and imitations of all kinds of meat. Everything was breaded and fried and tasted the same. I am not vegan or vegetarian but I would have have been happier with a big bowl of pasta primavera, pasta e fagioli, veggie fritters or a bean salad. All of the fake stuff just perpetuates the idea that meat is better. Imitation supposedly being the highest form of a compliment.
@Bashh Vegans don't necessarily stop eating meat or eggs or milk because they don't like the taste or feel of it, they stop eating it for health or ethical reasons. How does it harm anyone to develop a patty out of black beans and call it a "burger?" Or to drink almond milk, or eat tofu "eggs?" Did you know that seitan -- a common vegan meat substitute that is probably the basis for your friend's vegan spareribs and meatballs -- was developed for (or at least widely adopted by) Buddhist monks who gave up eating animal flesh but wanted a tasty protein-packed meat substitute?
Many, but not all, vegans want the same taste sensations, chewiness, and tummy satisfaction from their foods as meat eaters do. And you're probably not getting that from a week's worth of pasta primavera, pasta e fagioli, veggie fritters or a bean salad. Just sayin'.
@Meg A bean “burger” is a veggie fritter by another name. And I did know about seitan. But I also known that the Dalai Lama as well as other Buddhists will eat what they are served whether it is a steak or veggie mash. They would not cause a scene in a restaurant because someone made their pancakes with milk or slipped a mussel into a salad, as have several I have dined with.
What about everything in moderation? The agro industry brain washed us in eating meat every day, which is physiologically harmful, drinking milk where most of us lose our lactose in childhood and then added all the " fat free sugar free chemically altered" mixtures to fight the harmful chemicals in our bodies: cholesterol, lipids, glucose-poisoning us along the way.
A lot of profit is made on "cheap food".
Changing food production at this point is impossible, millions of acres have been turned into monocultures to satify the need for cheap animal feed for cheap meat.
The only solution so far seems to be changing consumer behavior. Encourage people to grow their own vegetables or be part of community gardens, where possible. Diminish meat consumption to at least every other day, eat smaller portions, stop eating snacks and sugary drinks and avoid fast food or just banish fast food as a source for food.
Small steps done collectively can lead to major changes.
6
Yes! I agree with all of this.
Although I now see the ecological damage large-scale meat production causes, I gave up meat permanently about 15 years ago for humane reasons. After seeing some horrifying footage of factory-farmed pigs, I read Mathew Scully’s book “Dominion,” and the penny dropped. I had seen the pig farrowing “crates” at the county fair before that, without truly understanding the cruelty they represent. Ditto battery cages for chickens. Meat is suffering. In the years since, I have seen and read things related to meat raising that reinforce my conviction to not take this suffering into my body. Is is my choice, my passion. I wish other would respect that. If I decline the meat course at a party, it is not to make anyone feel guilty, or for me to feel superior. When any of you — hosts or other guests — scoff and make jokes and put the plate of bleeding flesh in front of me anyway (yes, I have had “friends” and relatives do this), it just makes you look like a pillock.
How much better this world would be if respecting others was at the top of everyone’s list of values! If you respect others, you will care for the environment, and thus for all of the humans and animals that share our planet.
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@Passion for Peaches
OK, but since growing food (agriculture) is a way bigger ecological disaster world wide than raising animals, will you stop eating plants? Animal ranching can be made much more humane and eco-friendly than presently, but agriculture destroys topsoil along with entire ecosystems, it is truly destruction on a massive scale.
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@Scott
A large percentage of agricultural products are devoted to feeding the animals we then eat. Therefore reducing meat consumption will reduce the need for growing soy, corn etc
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@Scott most agriculture today is produced to feed animals NOT to feed people. So it falls under the meat production ecological footprint.
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Nearly lifelong vegetarian, not vegan here.
A story in the local news was about a baby fed from birth a vegan-only diet. The baby was taken away from the parents due to severe malnutrition and nutrient deficiency serious enough to prevent bone growth and other issues.
Vegan? Fine, but know what you are doing, nutrient-wise.
7
I eat little red meat at this point. I'm open to alternatives, but the best way to convince meat eaters is not to shame them but to have them taste delicious plant-based foods. The problem with veganism as a lifestyle is that it comes across as all or nothing, and morally superior. Vegans are responsible for that. Not "omnivores."
5
Thank you so much for this column, Mr. Manjoo! Although I’ve been lucky not to face much animosity over my plant-based diet, it can get ugly sometimes. I remember hearing about some college students in Tennessee a few years ago who left a pig’s head on the doorstep of a vegan deli (apparently not realizing it was also a Jewish deli.)
It should also be said that veganism is not exclusive to left-leaning folks (e.g., Corey Booker). One book that really made an impression on me was “Dominion: The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy” (2003), by Matthew Scully—who was a speechwriter for George W. Bush.
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@Tom Johnson: I loved Matthew’s book, read it twice, and recommended it to hordes of meat-eaters.
Although I was already a vegetarian, it bolstered my resolve. I will NEVER eat meat again!
I wonder whatever happened to Matthew. Could it be that, in spite of the chaos and madness of this administration, he’s still a republican?
Goddess, I hope not!
6
@Tom Johnson An amazing book!!
4
How about I meet you halfway? I pledge to respect vegans if I can continue to mock them.
Seriously, the new fake meat is the best thing to happen in a long time. I hope it catches on big-time. And soon.
1
@Madeline Conant.
I personally hope it is a bomb. It unnecessary to buy fake meat products. There are so many ways to eat and enjoy the taste of vegetables as they were meant to taste, instead of turning them into a fake pulp. I have also read that these products are not that much healthier than meat. Possibly the article was written by someone in the meat industry, but some of the products were said to contain a lot of salt and coconut oil, which is not as good for you as believed.
I think this is exactly why so many people hate Vegans. They're so smug, so sure of their moral superiority. But what do they believe in exactly? "Hamburgers" made of highly processed soybean chemicals? Almond milk? It's fine, I guess everybody needs a religion, but Veganism is a pretty silly one.
3
Nothing wrong with eating a bit of meat. We evolved to crave and benefit from it. But point well taken that we are absolute fools if we let that craving destroy the biosphere.
3
I had two reactions to Mr. Manjoo's offering. One: vegans should relax and feel good about what they do. "That would be good with bacon" sounds more like a friendly joke than disparagement and even the strident comments say more about the critic than the vegan. Don't let anybody victimize you. (Respond in kind: offer a detailed description of a CAFO while they're eating their burgers.) Second: can we put light and human-powered transportation on this list? People who use bicycles, scooters or their feet should get all the space they need, just because they aren't burning gas. Instead, they seem to get a lot of grief from SUV drivers who begrudge every foot of road they can't dominate. We're digging our own graves, but we'll go out driving a honking big gas-guzzler to a steak dinner.
"To an omnivore, every vegan looks like a preachy vegan."
To a carnivore, every vegan looks like food.
But seriously, though, I have this running argument with my wife. She advocates we SHOULD eat more vegetables, etc. I just maintain, we should eat. Really, as far as I am concerned, the word "should", has no place in the context of food. Just eat what works for your body, and no more. We all really do eat too much meat, anyway.
2
The ethics of vegetarian and vegan diets has always cherry picked a few details for their arguments. There is plenty of legitimate criticism of the present system of food production and delivery, and the very simple response of eating less and less processed food is a very good start to any reimagined planetary diet. However, the average sheep or cattle range is a veritable ecological jungle compared to a farming landscape, which deracinates entire ecosystems to raise one or a few domesticated exotic species. (The range, in turn, looks like a desert compared to a clearcut forest, and that pales besides the ecological complexity of the average ocean environment after commercial fishing nets.) The ecological implications of our food choices really are complicated, so unless we're going back to hunting and gathering, or just gathering, of indigenous plants, we are still talking about massive reorganizations of ecosystems by any dietary system, and husbanding systems reduce the extent of the vast changes that attend the vegetarian footprint. Mr. Manjoo is free to advocate for vegans, but please when he is done give the floor to an ecologist to pick apart those claims. Let's have a smart(er) materialist critique of all this.
4
@JET III. Vegan and vegetarian diets come with their own ethical problems.
Missing in the discussion is the toll that commercial farming takes on farm workers. Farm workers in New Jersey were reported in a recent article for the Philly paper to live in barracks with bunk beds and not much in the way of plumbing. They used outdoor latrines which contaminated the ground and farmland. It is not a mystery as to why people get as sick from contaminated vegetables as from meat,
In addition to the living conditions the workers can be exposed to sacks full of chemicals used to produce a large and attractive crop. The chemicals can cause cancers and destroy the immune system. Organic products cost more and are probably not the principle answer for a large scale plant based food system. With the kind of deregulation nowngoing on plants could become just as unhealthy as animals.
The Problem is NOT that we eat meat per se'. The problem is that there are TOO MANY of us eating meat.
Of course, we need to stop eating so much meat, in the sense that we are must do an ALL of the above strategy towards climate change, if we are going to have ANY chance to just survive. That means dealing NOW with the massive overpopulation of our planet.
The planet cannot sustain a BILLION more people every decade that are eating meat, consuming, or even breathing/exhaling air. Our planet cannot handle it now.
All of the above is EXCLUDING our use of carbon, so the problem is even worse, and we have to stop kidding ourselves if we are going to be frank.
Just a thought.
4
Why does the media avoid this? Why doesn't the Democratic party include this in their climate change discussion? Are we afraid we will hurt someone's feelings with this inconvenient truth? Why was ZPG accepted as a goal in the 70's but not now?
I am 75 and probably never met a vegan until my older daugher became one when I was 50. Now my other daughter, her boyfriend, and my granddaughter (11) are vegans.
I applaud them for their healthier eating habits and what they are doing to save the planet, but I am troubled and offended by the implicit and expicit judgment on the rest of us who like meat and who think the human desire for meat is baked into our history and dna. Bring on the faux meat.
1
As a native of India, being a vegetarian was never beyond the pale. I believe the airlines there, still ask a flyer if you are a veg and cater to both species. Indeed, I lament that a lot of Indians are now eating (mostly) chickens - bad news for the birds. Given the large population of India, even a slight shift in percentage, kills a lot of farmed birds.
Veganism, is something I do not understand however. Is it to counterbalance the extreme meat eating (with colon cancer screening as a default) in this country? I try to remember that one reason for the success of our species is due to the fact that we are omnivores, i.e., take advantage of what is available and are flexible, something that ensured our survival. It is definitely true that our meat eating is now way beyond what is sustainable, what with 8 billion milling about.
Despite being a native of India, thanks to my travels afar, I have tasted and enjoyed animal food that may even disgust some of the bacon lovers and so I do not want to count out hedonistic pleasure either. Nonetheless, I feel the true answer is in MODERATION, in eating less, indeed much less, meat (and other animal derivatives), which is good for human health, and which hopefully will highlight the plight of factory food, and what it has wreaked in terms of health related issues.
4
'…few of us make space in our worldview to acknowledge the carcass in the room: the irrefutable evidence that our addiction to meat is killing the planet right before our eyes'.
Are we addicted to meat? Yes. More truthfully, we are addicted to consumption. The real ‘carcass in the room’ is the relationship humans have with the earth. We are all, vegans included, raised in a culture of dominance over that which sustains us. Put any one of us under a microscope and we are biting the hand that feeds us.
Maybe our ‘wokeness’ depends more on recognizing and honoring the planet as a partner. We can keep sniping at each other through the lens of our egos but there is a much bigger picture here.
As long as consumption and maximizing profits are the dogma we are weaned on, we will continue to destroy the planet.
2
This was a fairly comprehensive piece, but I would have loved to hear mention of the association of veganism with femininity. For example, the pejorative "soy boy" is inextricably linked with the bad rep that not eating meat gets.
Consuming fewer animals is great.
In addition, don’t have kids. You’ll help save the planet and sleep well knowing your offspring won’t have to survive Earth turning into Venus.
4
Let's talk turkey here...
My friend, a respected surgeon, says he can tell if a person is a vegetarian (V) or canivore (C) with the first cut into their flesh:
V's flesh breaks apart, not a clean cut.
C's flesh cuts cleanly, a very sharp incision.
The difference, nutritionally, is the presence of the amino acid creatine. 5 gms of creatine gives the same amount you would get in raw red meat.
V's should also take Alpha-Lipoic Acid (same thing you get in "an apple a day" which gets the creatine into a useful state to be ingested into the blood.
That is a real difference that most V's do not know about their own body chemistry.
I know because for 16 years as a V, I finally learned this secret, and my energy and body turned on like a light bulb.
I'm no doctor, but for purely nutritional reasons, a strong V for 50 years now.
Try it, you'll like it.
2
Vegan should not be just another word for no more friends to lose.
1
I took a photo of a soybean field this spring. This monoculture was, a century ago, a prairie of over 120 species of plants and hundreds of species of animals. Now it produces a vegan's "meat substitute," at the expense of herbicide applications, the necessity for a large tractor and combine, and a good deal of consumption of fossil fuel to spray, harvest, and process the soybeans into something edible. There's no soil building, no carbon sequestering, and no biodiversity in a soy field.
My red meat is venison. It's grown in a forest, and the forest has no fertilizer input, no herbicide input, no mechanized cultivation, no fossil fuel consumption, and plenty of both plant and animal biodiversity. And the forest sequesters carbon, suffers no wind or water erosion, produces oxygen, and builds soils. In addition, there's a major problem with forest regeneration caused by over-abundant deer, and I feel no moral qualms whatsoever with killing a deer. Yes, vegans, killing an animal. Kill a deer, and help save an entire ecosystem. Other than wild-harvested wild rice, no vegan food is produced without totally eliminating a native ecosystem. Wheat for bread, corn for corn oil margarine, soybeans for soy burgers, rice paddies, you name it--there used to be a native prairie or forest where these monocultural crops are now grown.
If vegans had any idea of native ecosystems, they'd buy a deer license and fill it. I've unashamedly filled a few dozen.
2
This article seems to conflate dietary choices with industrial farming. This country has a long history of agrarian stewardship of the land, but over the past century, the US population has increased in size by 250%, while farmers have fallen from over 10% of the population to less than 1% today. Industrialization has increased yield while decreasing costs. With it comes a number of ethical questions from animal living conditions to environmental impact. Mr. Manjoo (and many commenters) assert that veganism is "irrefutaly on the right side of history". Based on what? Sure, going vegan will reduce support for industrialization of the meat supply. Purchasing from smaller environmentally conscious farmers will do the same thing, and provide the added bonus of increasing incentives for responsible farming practice. Even major grocery chains are finding that there's a market for (higher priced) organic produce on their shelves. While there are some "free range" options, there's not a lot of pressure for the industry to change. And by pressure, I mean money.
3
I've been vegetarian for 28 years. I rarely tell anyone because someone always asks me why and doesn't like my answer. I decided I wouldn't eat anything I wouldn't kill myself. Since there are no creatures I would kill, then...
3
This morning, I happened upon this advice in a different article:
"Eating vegan isn't about 'perfection' or a quest for personal purity - it's about achieving real change for animals suffering in the food industry.
It's about them. Not us."
Karen Davis, United Poultry Concerns
4
Drop in the bucket. Please, before you douse us in your vegan sanctimony, how do you plan to address the elimination of coal-fired power plants on this planet? And that's just the beginning. Veganism is a pretended form of doing the right thing, until you solve the much larger and dominant problems presented to us by coal and petroleum.
"They’re right about ethics and the environment. "
No they aren't. If you want to be vegan, fine go ahead. Why are vegans always so self-righteous and trying to force their views on everyone else?
4
@Dave, it's not all vegans. Many have the intellect and social skills to realize that no living soul can claim moral superiority for themselves. They would have enough respect to refrain from proselytizing while sharing a meal. The narcisists compelled to demonstrate their imagined moral superiority by means of their vegan life choices have a predominantly self-serving agenda. Or simply can't resist the opportunity to talk about what great, moral paragons they are at the dinner table. Intelligent, thoughtful vegans (the vast majority) would not indulge themselves like that at the risk of somebody else's discomfort in a social setting.
1
I respect people who choose a vegan diet, particularly if their concern is animal welfare. I've never understood how so-called ethical vegetarians can justify continuing support of the conventional dairy industry, as if that isn't also producing animals for slaughter.
I'm not a vegetarian or vegan. I don't think it's morally wrong to eat animals, but I do think that humans lean far too heavily on animal products, and that factory farming is evil. We should all think more about where our food comes from (if we can afford to think about it...not everyone can). Most of my diet is in fact vegan, but I have no plans to completely eliminate meat. My iron-deficient anemia did not resolve itself until I introduced more meat, and that was despite my attempts to consume the appropriate plant-based sources of iron, in addition to taking supplements.
Our entire food system is so messed up. We've become far too detached from where our food comes from. We eat too much and create so much waste. It's really sad. We should also think more about other living creatures in *all* of our decisions, not just when it comes to food.
I think the best way to get people to change is by encouraging reduction instead of elimination. I don't ridicule vegans and I support anyone who is trying to do good for our planet, but there are vegans on this comment thread who make it clear that, in their minds, if you eat meat then you're a terrible person. It's hard to listen to people like that.
3
I am personally tired of the strident fundamentalism of most vegans. The constant derogatory comments to others, the inability to be anything but snide and outright irritating in the constant proselytizing makes me avoid them and discussions with most vegans. How we choose to have a healthy lifestyle and diet is our choice, and I find the proselytizing on diet as irritating as it is in religion
2
Have no problem with vegans; I have a problem with their preaching of moral superiority because they don't eat meat or quite frankly anything worth eating; and feel everyone else should follow their "way".
5
Impugning the morality of others is a guaranteed path to getting anger and disrespect in return. The reason vegans are mocked and disliked is because they believe themselves to be superior human beings in all ways because they behave more ethically in one specific way - they do not eat meat raised in factory farms.
But even a vegan lifestyle requires animals to be killed to preserve the crops. Pescatarian? Please spare the hypocrisy of believing that fish are unintelligent and lack feelings.
Let's all be clear that living a human life requires killing animals in one way or another - even for vegans. Therefore, the discussion is not black and white. The issue is how the animals lived before they were killed and the manner of their killing.
If vegans admit that they are killers too, albeit much lesser, they would find much more openness to the discussion of animal welfare.
5
@Mad Moderate Clarification - More accurately meant to say that the reason vegans are mocked and disliked is because many (not all) believe being vegan is a window into the totality of a person's morality. Thus, anyone who isn't a vegan is viewed as a "bad" person or someone of poor or weak morality.
However, vegans truly only represent high ethics in the specific manner of not eating factory farmed animals. There's a lot of life and a lot of morality far beyond that issue. Anyone claiming that vegans and vegetarians are morally superior overall needs to contend with the fact that Hitler was a vegetarian.
I've yet to encounter anyone mocking or ridiculing vegans. What I do encounter is vegans trying to shame carnivores into changing their ways. By the way, I was once married to a vegan who quite possibly has one of the world's largest carbon footprints, but as someone who never flies and who barely drives, I never harangued her about how she was endangering the planet.
2
"...if we are ever to survive a warming planet, people will have to consume far fewer animals than we do now."
This is an alarmist, wild-eyed pronouncement of false apocalypse. Sadly, that has become the norm for climate rhetoric on America's political left.
Mr. Manjoo, your article on veganism is timely, it brings real issues to light, and I commend you for writing it. But outrageous statements like the above-quoted superstitious nonsense are *not* helpful. This kind of unhinged, fact-free, quasi-religious eschatology from environmentalists only alienates independent-minded people who base their beliefs and actions on science, reason, and evidence. And that makes it harder to marshal a unified social and political response to the climate change problem.
For those who don't understand why Mr. Manjoo's statement is ridiculous: all the recent talk about climate change as an "existential" threat to "humanity" is utterly false. Climate change is a serious problem, and it will kill millions. But there is no plausible scenario that can show it killing every human being on earth.
According to the IPCC, agriculture is currently responsible for about 19% of global CO2e emissions. This makes Mr. Manjoo's assertion even more ridiculous than the usual "existential risk" myth: he's saying that even 19% of current global emissions will definitely, directly cause the extinction of the human species. That is just as far from the truth as saying that climate change is a hoax.
Thank-you Thank-you Thank-you. I almost cried when I read your wonderful article on what many vegans think but sometime can't articulate as well as you did. We are vegan for all the reasons you stated and more but receive blow-back from family,friends,co-workers,etc every day.
Your article was inspirational and I thank-you for writing it!
Peace!
3
Thank you for this article; veganism is not something to make fun of! “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Mahatma Gandhi It has become very apparent that the farmed animals suffer terribly to kill & make people sick & kill our wildlife & our planet too, As the fires continue to burn the Amazon forests, largely for cattle, I see an outrage about it that I’ve never seen before & I must hope that people will take responsibility for their part in destroying our global forest by eating animal products & go vegan. As the fourth generation cattle rancher turned vegan, Howard Lyman, has said for many years - “You cannot be an environmentalist and consume animal products “. Plant Based Is Planet Based
3
This article completely misses the argument that animals, raised right, can be part of the climate change solution. What about the farmers who are raising animals ethically? What happens to their livelihood if everyone becomes vegan? What about societies in this world that rely on meat products because the land in their region is non-arable? Where is the discussion about regenerative agriculture? Do you know how many inputs it takes to create an impossible burger? What about the environmental destruction that occurs when natural habitat is cleared to provide for mono cropping the inputs of a vegan diet? Talk to some farmers who are practicing regenerative agriculture.
3
There is a difference between being vegan and someone who eats a plant-based diet.
True vegan eschew everything that comes from animals which includes clothing, shoes, etc.
This article speaks to eating a plant-based diet, so technically it's not the vegan lifestyle.
I actually stopped being vegan because I couldn't handle the constant judgment. I never lectured anyone, but people were just so defensive--and it came out as aggression.
I love to mock vegans, with all their self-righteousness, moral superiority, and bad keep repeating it "science."
There has never been a vegetarian, let alone vegan culture in the history of hominids and humans. Never. You know why? They could not live without refrigeration and environmentally damaging long distance transportation. No kale in North Dakota in January.
Cattle and ruminants are not an enemy. They can use land that cannot support vegan crops, whether by climate or terrain. As is being shown by conscientious farmers, cattle properly grazed actually reclaims desert!
Vegans lose brain size, per one five year study. They often suffer a slew of ailments including depression, skin problems, overweight, colon disorders, etc. www.meatheals.com Kids raised vegan cannot get all the molecules they need for proper brain development w/o animal products.
Your vegan row crops and precious water consuming almonds are just as bad for long term planetary health as some of our current husbandry practices. Change the practices, not the diet we evolved to eat. Who ya gonna believe? Evolution or a movement?
5
If we are biologically designed to be omnivores, then we ought to focus on agricultural sustainability. There are compelling environmental & health reasons to reduce meat consumption & production...
1
Like religion, believe what you want but leave me alone. I promise to leave you alone too. Humans evolved as omnivores, fact. The problem is we no longer hunt for meat and there are so many of us (over population) that animal protein must be farmed in an unsustainable fashion. So yes, if we consume less meat that is good but to give it up entirely is extreme.
2
I won't mock vegans, but I might mention how a few of them nearly starved their infant daughter to death on a supposedly vegan diet. I heard the arguments that it wasn't truly a vegan diet, but I've seen a few things that cause me concern--young women with eating disorders opting for a vegan diet in their teens in order to stay thin, etc. Parents who cook vegan with children who are way too thin and who gobble bacon at grandma's house whenever they get a chance.
1
If the entire world went vegan, would there be enough food? How long would it take to reconfigure the food production and distribution business to feed the world this way? Would they need to clear the rain forest to grow broccoli instead of clearing it for cattle ranching and soy beans?
Or really... would it just be better if human population dropped to 2 billion or so?
3
I have been a vegetarian since I was four. I was briefly a vegan until my doctor ordered me to take weekly B12 shots because of anemia. All of my life, family, friends and co -workers considered my diet odd at best and an inconvenience at worst if I objected to just picking the meat out of the hamburger hotdish or taking the burger off the bun or eating at a steakhouse with nothing on the menu I could eat. I haven’t done a lot of lecturing. I would be happy enough to try a veggie burger but it’s a turnoff when they claim it looks and tastes just like meat.
1
We’ve been eating this way since 2007. We don’t talk about it or push our choice on anyone, unless Bunco is at my house and it’s my turn to cook. It’d be like telling people we use deodorant. What’s the point? The only time it could be an issue is when we go out with friends. Our restaurant choices are slim...Indian, Chinese, Thai. I’m happy BK has the impossible burger. It’s far better than other fast food vegan burgers. I’m looking forward to getting vegan chicken when we go to Atlanta.
We don’t care what people may say about vegans. Life is too short.
2
There is a strong human preference to not want to see what’s going on on the other side of the fence. (And as evidenced by the proliferation of “Ag Gag” laws, lots of so called “farmers” don’t want us looking either).
An unfortunate truth is that the bill for our willful ignorance is coming due. The fences have failed (as they always do) and the natural world is coming for us all.
2
I did not read anything about the health benefits for your own body. Vegans, should be proud, do tell the world, it might save an animal. Like climate change, set rules, environmental impact, not on you, the animals. You want to laugh at vegans, I lost 45 pounds in a year. The reason I turned Vegan is my cardiologist said you won't survive your next heart attack, the veins are clogged. If you want to save the planet, and animals, and your self, you can be vegan by default. Accept a life style that you won't eat any food, any portion with 2,000 calorie that has more than 5% total fat. Your Vegan or at least pescetarian, by default. Remember the condiments, choose 5% TOTAL FAT, OR FORGET IT PER 2,000 CALORIE PORTION.
In my experience with vegans, it is often the vegan who is aggressive and intolerant. Veganism has become a religion, and oh dear you if you don’t subscribe to their philosophy you are a bad person …. Simple example: tell a vegan that the theory that eating meat is bad for your health is based on the over consumption of meat, but that there are no studies proving that a reasonable consumption of meat (once, twice a week max 90 grams) is bad for your health and you get massacred. Tell a vegan that there is proof that plants do have senses and reactions that can be compared to pain reactions in animals (including us), and there is a 100% rejection.
The problem is that this is not a real fact based discussion, but as said a religion kind of attitude that makes any sensible discussion worthless.
On top, there are several extreme vegans who hold very aggressive actions against meat industry. I don't want to defend this industry at all, but it is them who get the headlines and thus confirm this image of intolerance.
If vegans would learn to respect those who try to do good, but see things differently, their image might change, and they might get to become more widely accepted. But today, I don’t see this happening
2
Thank you Farhad, once more. I have been that remorseful omnivore for many years and a vegetarian for less than one. I dreaded calling myself that, having to keep my cool in front of people that mocked me or family members that brushed it off and still put some dead animals on my plate. I admit I also feared going hungry and feeling miserable at social events because hey, you are the one that chose not to eat what was made. Except for the family part, it hasn't been that bad. My strategy? I redirect the mocking to vegans: I may not be that fun but geez, vegans? The defensive mechanism in cognitive dissonance you called it, and I feel it. Betrayal bonding with my audience. Now that I'm venturing longer and longer periods without eggs and dairy I wonder who I can betray to bond, and if casual and unapologetic bonding over a dead body would ever be deemed not fun.
1
Ok, ok. Aside from the fact that you are confusing animal welfare issues (aka factory farming), ignoring overpopulation, you make a valid point. I confess guilt on many of your points.
This oldster has run up against so many challenges to views taught/assumed as a child, has had to remind myself that “it’s a different world” that I will try to ...temper...my views of Vegans. But in return, Vegans should, as you say, be proud and come out; demand products quit hiding behind meat-esque labels (see articles on state laws trying to prohibit this).
Surely ad firms would love to try new labels, new terms. If Subaru can sell cars with dogs driving cars under a ‘love’ label, (totally disconnected from any real attributes, but a great car) creativity can come to the rescue of Vegans.
3
I have no problem with eating vegan. The meat industry is cruel and I try to limit how much I eat for that reason.
However, most vegans I have run into are full of rage, hatred and intolerance towards anyone who has a different belief system.
Like so much of the over-educated left who come across as angry and intolerant of anyone who doesn't see the world exactly as they do.
1
This is not intended to be snarky — but didn’t I just read an article (here in the NYT, I think) in the last couple weeks about new research (it seems way out there, but lots of new knowledge starts that way) about scientists who are discovering communication systems among plants, especially trees. Wouldn’t that suggest that plants too are sentient beings? Time was when people thought of animals as “just” animals, but that changed. Whose to say that our orientation towards the living world won’t change again. Faced with possibility that our grandchildren will have a more complicated view of “life”, won’t the issue be about the ethical, compassionate way of navigating our relationships with plants as well as animals? Part of what we, as humans, are doing now is working this out. I don’t preach to others about food, try to accommodate people with different views (after all, who knows who is right), but I opted out of paying attention to all evangelizing about any diets. Want to spend your time conversing about your particular approach to food and why this makes you a better person (meat-eaters, vegetarians & vegans all do this); want to dominate a group about screeds about the evils of flour; want to explain the value of ketogenesis — great, but know that I won’t stay to listen. I’ll be responsible for my own approach to ethical eating but I don’t care about yours. Please be quiet — everyone.
1
As a vegan, I appreciate what Farhad says. Thanks.
If we view eating habits (and so much else in life) as a continuum, people might not seem so different from each other, and changes might seem more doable.
4
I don't think anyone genuinely has a problem with vegans, until they start lecturing us about how we are evil and cruel because we do not choose to follow their lifestyle.
You can eat what you want to eat, and I'll eat what I want to eat, and we can agree not to whine at each other about our dietary choices. Fair?
Although this article is written by the same guy who insisted that everyone must be referred to as "they" regardless of how they identify themselves, because he identifies as a "they". So I somehow doubt my compromise will be acceptable.
2
I would add that few vegans lecture others.
Have to look up the author’s article about the use of “they.” I have no problem with individuals preferring another pronoun, but it should should be singular not plural, and it should not be forced on anyone.
It’s not being ‘preachy” to tell the truth, as this article effectively and thankfully does. The global climate consequences of over-reliance on meat eating are scary and best not ignored. But equally scary is the contradictory pairing of our nation’s astonishing medical costs and our deplorable ill-health. Substantial scientific evidence demonstrates that both heart disease and diabetes can be halted and even reversed through eating an exclusively plant-based diet. Rather than rolling our eyes we should either use them to educate ourselves about facts or close them and contemplate our own power to affect personal and national change.
4
I have friends who are vegan and who have never been the least bit preachy around me. In fact, I like to cook for people who have restrictions—gluten free, vegan, paleo. I do a good bit of entertaining and enjoy the puzzle of what to put on the table so that everyone gets something tasty. In my experience, vegans are the first to step up and say "oh don't worry about us, we will bring something," which I feel comes from having well-meaning friends who do not know what vegan means (vs vegetarian), as well their desire not to be a bother.
7
The issue I generally find with vegans tends to be their black and white view of the world, notwithstanding how many of them are virtue-signaling trust-fund babies or the spoiled children of wealthy professionals. So let's discount the economic realities of being a vegan, namely that it signals immense economic privilege in our society (which many vegans would likely deny, as they go to their communist rallies in designer 'fair trade' clothing and the like).
Instead, let's look at the fundamental issue of supply chains and industrial agriculture, which they completely ignore. It's wonderful to claim, "yes, we can feed way more mouths using pastureland for grain." That doesn't look at the reality though- growing non-rainfed wheat in the midwest? TERRIBLE ECOLOGICAL IDEA! Those underground water reserves aren't coming back- raising free range cattle, goats, sheep, etc. on that land and selling it on local markets would be a far more sustainable idea. Not that we hear vegans saying that- they just blindly swing at all notions of meat.
The problem with veganism is that of countless other social movements today- well intended, lacking in nuance and missing critical points, arguably to the extent of making the situation worse and being rampant with hypocrisy. If you're going to be a vegan, at least give me a good argument to defend it.
5
To me, it sounds like you’re making a totally different argument.
If that’s what you’re passionate about you should go and do something the wheat in the Midwest. Vegans can’t do everything for you.
My problem, as I have vegan friends, is the morality of it. Firstly they don't preach to me or anyone actually. It is a fair choice but couched as I'm more moral then you is a losing proposition. It may be that this article is in an American context but where we live, France, we don't buy or eat eggs (one of my disagreements) from caged industrial chicken farms. The same goes for cheese, (another food disagreement) which is treated in a sacred way here and is nothing like the way it might be processes elsewhere. We eat local and support our local providers, period. Vegans are fine people but I'm not sure that it means they are morally or ethically superior to anyone else. That would depend on a lot more of their behavior.
5
My daily commute takes me past a feedlot. Folks, that whole concept is just flat wrong - and no, they weren't "put on this planet for a reason" (so we can eat them), as I hear so often. And isn't that the same crazy-think that was used to rationalize slavery for so many years?
That, plus the obvious health benefits of a plant based diet - and the fact that eating lower on the food chain is less resource intensive, etc., etc. - so now I'm happily off meat and have been for years.
Do I miss it? Not enough to go back. And when my doc says to me after looking at my blood work lab results from my annual physical at age 62, "Whatever you're doing, just keep doing it - I wish my numbers looked this good," that's all the external confirmation I need.
7
Eating meat is not the problem; the problem is how the animals are reared, housed, and slaughtered. Vegans are just avoiding that problem.
Meanwhile, Big Agra would be perfectly happy to turn humans into the direct consumers of its factory-farmed corn, soy, and wheat, and skip the cows, hogs, and chickens. Vegans will object that more humans can be raised and fed on corn and soy than by eating animals raised and fed on corn and soy, so by going vegan we could feed more people and increase the human population without famine. Those vegans simply do not understand exponential population growth. The human population would outstrip even a vegan future in just a few additional generations of population growth.
Then what? Soylent Green? Or outright cannibalism, as on Easter Island?
5
Thank you so very much. I am a cardiologist, and began eating whole food, plant based for its health benefits. I have continued for this and for ethical and environmental reasons. I teach cooking and nutrition classes, which are more fun than preaching. Rapid improvements in chest pain, cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood sugar speak for themselves. But even among my colleagues, eating whole food, plant based is viewed as a curiosity, despite ever-growing research finding deep and broad health benefits from replacing animal protein with plant protein.
9
Two years ago I went to a conference in a remote village in Iceland (5h from Reykjavik by bus) attended by some 80 people. One of the participants, a graduate student, was vegan. Fruits and vegetables are not that common in Iceland and have to be imported. The organisers went to a great length to provide an extra meal for the one vegan participant. On the way back I learned that the person owned a dog and was feeding him meat.
10
@Frank Dogs have to eat meat. I don't really see the big deal with that.
What is far worse are the vegans who insist that their cats and dogs must be vegan also, when it is not actually biologically possible for them to survive on that diet.
2
Self-appointed vegan spokespersons do blame meat eaters for being a major cause (in their view) of climate forcing. I see it all the time. Guerrilla preaching I call it. Drop a comment to start a verbal war, then fall back. The few times I’ve brought up that it is better tactically to learn to be an excellent vegetarian cook and invite meat eating friends over for a meal, it went unacknowledged. Point out that it is possible to raise grass fed only animals that are pasture to shelf ‘carbon negative’ (bison are easy) and the classic deflection to ethics always comes next. I love vegetables and currently manage a community garden but I can deal any longer with blaming. There isn’t time for it with the impending climate catastrophe that may well destroy even the vegetarian supply chains Vegans rely on.
7
There are hundreds and thousands of different ways to help curtail climate change. But be careful in driving wedges and making it personal, it may wind up backfiring.
2
As someone who has suffered from food intolerances for more than 30 years, I understand the point here but my approach is low key. What someone else chooses to eat is none of my business unless, of course, I am cooking a meal for them. What people need to understand is the difference between medical necessity and a preference. Luckily, some restaurants understand the distinction.
3
Farhad, we're — or at least I'm — not mocking vegans. It's the hype and fakery that goes along with most extreme or fad diets that gets to me. Everywhere you go, it's gluten-free, paleo, vegan, you name it. Items should be properly labelled and people should be encouraged to eat healthy foods, but who really wants to listen to their friends bragging about what they did or didn't eat, or see pictures of their lunch? Especially when they're into the cocktail sausages when they think nobody is looking.
10
Respectfully, what makes you think that veganism is a fad diet? It is a movement which is been around at least since the 1940s. It’s benefits include, with a modicum of attention, improved health, reduced cruelty, and significant environmental improvements. Let’s hope it becomes a fad, and catches on like wildfire.
4
@Christopher Stratton
You're picking words. I said fad OR extreme. Eliminating all animal products (except the occasional bug in your grain) would strike most people as extreme.
I was a vegetarian during college many years ago but gradually fell off the wagon. Now I am reducing the amount of meat I consume and plan to stop eating meat altogether in the coming year as I learn to make tasty, nutritious non-meat meals to wean my family off meat. There are many good vegan and vegetarian cookbooks on the market and anyone can learn how to make a veggie burger or casserole to satisfy meat cravings.
When people sneer at my non-meat choices, I tell them that I don't want to eat anything with a face. There is no need to be preachy about it.
5
I think vegans would earn greater respect if they were to demonstrate and emphasize a greater understanding of the quantitative realities of meat consumption.
Doubling or tripling the number of vegans worldwide (an ambitious goal) would have a considerably smaller impact on human health, ecosystem protection, species diversity and carbon emissions, than if half the people in the world were to simply cut their consumption of red meat in half, in favor of sustainably produced vegetables and non-meat substitutes.
5
Respectfully, in my experience, most vegans are aware of the things you point out. What leads to your broad, so we can conclusion that we are not?
1
With respect, I'll continue to challenge "vegans" who hector me having done limited research. I think they do animal welfare a disservice by shutting down debate. The videos they spread are based on intensive farming, usually in USA, and that needs challenged. But by showing the worst as the normal, their message is easily ignored. I have lived on farms with extensive, grass fed animals and no issues with that. Animals die for every human diet, every human diet has environmental cost (arable needs rotation and livestock are valuable part of that). Meat should be a luxuary product but it (and mature) play an important role.
8
It doesn’t bother me that ppl think it’s weird I avoid meat. At some deep level I have a hard time being part of or condoning how we treat animals — I had the opportunity to pet a cow once and I felt a bond and then a deep sense of shame. Honestly I often go by the rotisserie and just silently give a little prayer. I can hear howls of laughter. Do I look like I care?
5
Each of us can be a more conscious consumer of resources. This is one way. I like the Vegan Till Dinner approach, and dinner might also be vegan. But when I sit with people at their table, I eat their food and say thank you.
2
For years I've eaten some dairy, no flesh. Meat processing films and popular books prompted me to give it a go. Consciously, I've never missed it. I enjoy a wide variety of food while at the same time feel it is doing me good. It does the animals I don't eat good as well, at least insofar as they are spared a short confined and presumably unloved existence. Might do the world good as well, however much that matters.
Reacting with non vegans? Things might not go very well, especially if they haven't decided yet whether one fits with their circle.
If others don't treasure you and your veganism, it is preferable to more or less dust them off.
Not long ago these pages spotlighted the new luxury meat movement. Former vegans stepping up as purveyors of kinder, upscale food. An effort at compromise? Meat industry types with money might capitalize or otherwise encourage those; perhaps that money might also help influence media treatment towards anal-retentive stereotypes.
I don't say that one doesn't give up something to adhere to veganism. Years ago I had dreams of eating meat. Much of India is vegan, they are a spiritual people. We don't have the social support the Indians do, but possibly there are ways to connect with vegetarians more, and impose on carnivores less.
On the other hand, articles like this one, and general signs throughout the culture, indicate flesh eating is moderating.
That might go faster if meat eaters did their own slaughtering.
2
@William Much of India is vegan because they live in abject poverty and cannot afford meat.
As a 9-year vegan, some thoughts: 1) good for my health (per annual physical incl. blood lab tests) 2) even better for animals' health (the suffering of millions of innocent creatures confined to cramped spaces is unbearable to contemplate if you have a conscience) 3) hostility to us is widespread: even my doctor denies that my low cholesterol is other than genetic [he can't explain why the level was higher before I made the change]) ; also some "friends" will be deeply offended when you refuse to eat everything they try to put on your plate - too bad for them 4) it only took me 3 weeks to fully adapt
7
I understand why we need to move to more plant based foods. That does not mean we need to eliminate meat or shaming those who eat meat. We are omnivores and meat can still have a place in our diets.
What does concern me about the move towards plant based foods is the goal to replicate the flavor of meat without actually eating meat. How is that achieved? What chemicals are being used to add flavor? How safe are these chemicals? Where does this fit in, given the ongoing move to organic and clean foods? It seems contradictory and frankly, potentially dangerous.
10
Attitude always leads the way with any choice— I and my entire family intentionally decided to make a change to ‘vegan’ and intentionally use products as much as possibly made by intentionally environmentally conscious companies. We don’t talk about our food (or product) choices but as people around us at work, school, sports, community have learned about our choices, they are not only intrigued and ask a ton of questions (I get recipe requests a lot) but many decide to also make changes for themselves too. Our family’s personal decision to ‘eat plants’ was to help this planet and future generations. It’s a simple choice we need to make for ourselves every day anyway- what to eat or consume. Our small daily choices may not have a huge impact but it’s certainly LESS harmful. It all starts with each person wanting to try if they are so inclined. And.... my health has never been better. It’s an easy ‘choice’ one day at a time -nothing more. No preaching needed.
4
The problem is dogmatism and the article fails to show that, in my opinion the real problem with vegans and anybody who follows any strict diet is they force other to adjust. A good example is the food wedding requirement. An omnivorous will not force any diet on anybody, actually they will eat vegetables only if they are invited to a vegetarian party, they will not force the vegan host to cook a steak,it is the vegan that forces the the host or the chef of any event to prepare a special food. Why not eat a chicken once or twice a year not to impose their preference. It scientifically proven that is not poison and will not kill you. Vegan is a voluntary preference, not a medical condition. The opposite is true for example with celiac people, they hardly imposed on other even theirs is a real life risk, they just separate their food or don’t eat in that event, but most keep it to themselves. It is that dogmatism what makes vegan be looked as weirdos, because it is all or nothing. Most human have preferences in foods or life styles but are not imposing them on others, especially your hosts. We should all help the planet eating less meat, but also driving less gasoline cars etc etc, but that means doing it less not imposing on others a zero tolerance in their lifestyles. Unfortunately vegan becomes an irrational dogmatism more than a health or environment issue. That in my opinion is the problem.
13
You are absolutely right, vegan is a choice. But when your choice is anchored in the will to not inflict suffering upon animals unless it is absolutely necessary for our own survival (antibiotics) or very marginal, then it explains why one would not want to deviate from their values and inflict suffering for a wedding or family dinner. They are vegan for ethics, not because of allergies.
3
@Marie Couwez That's perfectly understandable and acceptable. What is NEITHER of those thigns, however, is the way many vegans insist that everyone around them ACCOMMODATE that choice.
If you don't want to eat any of the food I'm serving at a party or wedding because it's not to your dietary preferences, that's fine, you do not have to. But do not expect me to make an entire new menu, because of one person's dietary preferences.
3
I would carry Mr. Manjoo's apt comments even further -- we not only need to stop mocking vegans, we need to explore political options for decreasing animal food consumption as a society. Animal foods, while not intrinsically unhealthful, tend to be harmful to health when consumed in excess. Most Americans far more than is healthful and should be reducing consumption. On a social level, the over-consumption of animal foods is swelling our health care budget, by increasing the incidence of obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and cardiovascular disease. On a global level, the overconsumption of meat is helping to create potentially catastrophic changes to our climate. "While He was Eating a Cheeseburger, the World Caught Fire", might be the title of the next apocalyptic novel. We've overfished the seas to the point of almost destroying the marine ecosystem with which the terrestrial world is unconsciously interdependent. We've dumped plastics into the oceans, which we consume with every delicious bite of fish in the form of micro plastics, to say nothing about dioxin, antibiotics, and mercury. Far from being a quaint oddity, the reduction of consumption of animal foods is part of the solution to the world's environmental problems, one which we can scarcely afford to do without. It is an urgent mandate for the survival of our planet that those in political power take action before it is too late. Unfortunately, there are no signs that those in power grasp this crisis.
6
The planet is overpopulated. Overpopulation is the biggest problem. If we all became bicycle riding vegans tomorrow, it would help greatly, but eventually overpopulation would catch up. Our planet has a finite surface area, a finite amount of stored energy, and a finite amount of renewable energy. There IS a limit to the population this planet can support.
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@Phil, agreed! The overpopulated planet also wastes a lot of food, especially in places like America where much of the food on refrigerators and kitchen cabinets go waste. If you ever go into a school cafeteria you will be appalled to see how much food (and it’s packaging) is thrown away. Meanwhile millions in poor countries are starving for basic grains protein and fresh produce! Traveling in India this summer people were lamenting about price of onions going up! They told us just imagine onions are so expensive how can we buy other vegetables? Those who can, do grow their own vegetable patch, plant fruit trees where they can, but land is at a premium and space is tight, especially in these developing countries.
2
@Phil
I disagree. As the world develops population will stabilize and even decrease. China's population will decrease by 2100. Most wars or tribal killings were fought because there wasn't enough room for growth. Even when the human population was in the thousands.
1
I appreciate this article so much! I find myself constantly walking on (vegan) eggshells around non-vegans because I am afraid to offend them or make them feel guilty. I want to be the vegan friend that inspires you to try vegan options, not make you feel guilty!
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@JennyLee
Then stop making your vegan-ness front and center in your life. Undoubtedly your friends know and have a lost of places to go if someone says where should we go to eat. I am allergic to soy so as a rule vegan/vegetarian food is out unless I know exactly how it is made and I can trust the cooks. But I do not make my soy allergy front and center. I know what and where I can eat in my community. I ask acquaintances what food preferences or allergies they have so I can plan meals. My vegan friends know of my soy allergy and have have shared soy free recipes.
Where all of this goes off the rails is when people get preachy. Share a meal, enjoy the company, do not try to convert the "unconverted" and this goes both ways.
3
@skramsv I believe you missed the entire point of this article, which was that many vegans don’t make veganism front and center. This comment is exhibit A regarding defensiveness.
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@DannyR
Why be defensive unless you feel you have done wrong? Real friends do not get offended over what you eat. Real friends will not feel guilty if you get a vegan meal. There will be problems if one demands to go only to vegan places or meat only places, or one specific place every time. There has to be some compromise and guilt or other bad feelings come from people preaching/trying to convert you to their way of thinking.
Why walk on vegan-eggshells then as the first comment in this thread claims? I don't need to and neither do my vegan friends. I don't walk on egg-shells with colleagues or acquaintances when it comes to food. Most colleagues do not know I have a soy allergy or auto-immune diseases that prevent me from eating certain foods. They just know I do not like to eat at the salad shop for lunch. They know another coworker does not like to go to the taco shop. The real answer is that there is nothing for us to eat at these places.
The key is not preaching, evangelizing, or anything else about diet. Just accept people for who they are and what they choose to eat. No need to get defensive or feel like you are doing wrong, you are exercising your right to eat what you want.
1
First of all its impossible to remove your carbon footprint altogether. Stop wearing clothes, stop going on holiday, stop heating your home, stop eating meat... etc etc. Believe me, we try every day to keep ours to a minimum but one has to live. On the subject of diet, cutting out red meat from your diet alone will make a huge difference to our planet. So, will going meatless one or two days a week. The problem with vegans and many extremist positions is that they make people feel uncomfortable and guilty. The response is then to belittle and demonise the position as 'preachy'. The liberal left makes this mistake time and time again. We need to make changes and make them now but it doesn't have to be EITHER/OR. Try to source ethically farmed meat wherever possible and avoid red meat wherever possible. The vast majority of the world lives on chicken. Believe me, that is not going to change any time soon. But let's keep up the pressure to ensure those animals are farmed as ethically as possible. And try avoiding fast food outlets altogether. Without exception they are bad for your health, and terrible for the planet.
4
If you think going vegan means no blood on your hands, you don't know how food grows. What exactly do you think happens to the animal life living in a field when a farmer plows a field? Granted that animal life may be snakes, rodents, birds, and insects, but it is animal life nonetheless. Further, there is evidence that plants communicate, although it is through chemicals not through sound or sight. Something has to die for us to eat. That's how it works. Food animals can be raised humanely and sustainably. Know your sources and choose accordingly.
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@kjb
Research has shown plants have a sense of community, shared defense mechanisms, and can feel pain and a sense of loss when seed pods are removed or when a neighboring plant has been killed. These feeling and communications can be inter-species.
I agree that a living, breathing, pain-feeling community member must die so we can live. There sacrifice must be respected.
1
@kjb There's no way to humanely slit the throat of an animal who'd like to live just because one likes the taste of its flesh. And by the way, there's much more food grown to feed cattle that will then feed humains, than what would be needed if it would directly feed humains. Hence no meat/dairy = way less field life killed.
2
@kjb, sour dough has millions of live romping wild yeast! Those who are strict believers in non harming live creatures, have to think twice before they gouge on live bacteria (pro biotics as in fermented foods) and yeast molds etc!
1
I share the concerns and values of vegans and might be vegan or vegetarian myself, if I could. One of the things that bothers me the most about the sanctimonious vegans/vegetarians I've encountered is the assumption (as in this article) that it's a matter of choice. I worked for many years for a macrobiotic restaurant (pescatarian, zero dairy & eggs) and met countless people who, like me, can't be vegan or vegetarian because there is no non-animal protein we can eat. In my case, soy, gluten, legumes, nuts, quinoa (oxalate), also dairy, fish, seafood are all out. If you are vegan or vegetarian, you're lucky to have that option, but don't assume we're all made just like you.
The vegetarian "burgers" and fake fried chicken mentioned are full of unhealthy ingredients. Are we really supposed to be grateful to vegans for creating a market for these processed industrial junk foods? The writer shows a total disregard for the quality of food -- as long as it's vegan.
5
@Jean Nobody says that a vegan burger is healthier (apart for the lack of cholesterol in plants). But a beef burger isn't as well. The main difference with a plan burger is that it's exempt of death and uses way less plants, land, water to produce.. hence way more environmental friendly ;-) !
4
@Marc Plants aren't alive?
As a vegan, who is not a proselytizer about it, I appreciate this article. I am constantly asked - although much less than a decade ago - "but, what do you eat?" Thankfully, Warsaw - Poland! - has a higher concentration of vegan establishments than London or New York. It was quite shock - but everything from Loving Hut (about $2-3 for a big meal) to the upper-scale places ($15-$30 per person) - Warsaw is a sort of "vegan center." So much for the notion that it's a privileged "Western" position. Oh, and some half a billion people in India are vegan or vegetarian.
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@Tony Robert Cochran "Oh, and some half a billion people in India are vegan or vegetarian."
Right, but would they choose to be, if weren't living in such poverty that puts meat out of their reach ? Somehow, i doubt it.
@Samuel They chose to be for religious/spiritual reasons - Hinduism.
Thank you! So true. I am a mere vegetarian, and I've seen a lot of defensiveness from some omnivores, as well as some "preachy" vegans.
But I think progress is being made. It's gotten easier in the past few years. Thank you, vegans, for leading the way.
3
The reason vegetarians and vegans are often mocked is because eating is a social affair. Humans eat together. We share our food. When a family sits down to eat Thanksgiving dinner and someone isn’t eating the turkey, it sends a negative message to the group. It makes them feel uncomfortable. Mocking the vegan is their response to feeling uncomfortable. I’ve been vegan for just over a year. I did it for health reasons. I don’t care what other people eat, but I began to realize the social stigma attached to it. If someone can solve the problem of the Thanksgiving dinner in a way that vegans and non-vegans can share a meal and everyone feels comfortable, that person will become rich. By the way, if I ever become non-vegan again, the very first thing I’m doing is ordering a deep dish pizza with Italian sausage and extra cheese.
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Mark, in my opinion you hit with the problem, is dogmatism, why not eat that pizza you enjoy once a year? Why being vegan has to be zero tolerance? I can understand the celiac or somebody who has a medical condition but being a vegan is lifestyle, in my opinion very respectable, but why so dogmatic, why not eat that piece of turkey on thanksgiving ? The problem in human understanding is tolerance and dogmatism. So in order to belong to the vegan group meat becomes kriptonite. That in my opinion is the root of the misunderstanding.
5
On our flight from the US they announced several times there was a child with peanut allergy on board, so the entire flight was not going to serve any item containing peanuts and they urged every osssebger to please not open any food item they carried that might contain peanut. The entire flight obliged. We should similarly respect vegans, give them their space their options. Restaurants ought to include delicious options that accommodate vegans. Let not a single vegan ever feel left out.
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I do not agree with this position. A life threatening allergy and a personal choice are not the same.
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@petey tonei Most airlines will not be so accommodating of a food allergy; instead they provide warnings that they cannot do so. Nor am I persuaded that eating peanuts in row 3 puts the health of a child in row 30 at risk. If the parents believe that it does, how do they accept the risk that the prior occupant of their seat ate peanuts?
I'm sorry, Mr. Manjoo, but there are big differences between "vegetarian" and "vegan" diets. Eggs, milk, butter and honey have been part of the human diet for tens of thousands of years, and as you probably know, have a central role in a lot of vegetarian cuisines and cultures. The vegan diet, which is devoid of all animal products, is simply impractical and unacceptable to billions of people around the world. Forgoing hamburgers or chicken sandwiches is not the obstacle to a more widespread acceptance of veganism. And as many folks have responded in their comments, many vegan products are not particularly healthy, many of which contain all kinds of additives and protein alternatives to satisfy the strict vegan definition. Lastly, many vegan alternatives taste awful-- which is fine for those committed to a vegan diet, but simply unacceptable to those who wish to eat a vegetarian diet-- let alone those who prefer the addition of animal based products.
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@Dismayed, my cousin has been vegan for decades now. She has mastered the art of cooking delicious meals completely vegan and no one could ever tell there was no animal sourced product in it! She bakes with maple syrup instead of honey; coconut butter instead of cows milk butter; she even makes her own cheddar cheeses yogurt gelatos desserts completely vegan. It’s such a treat for us and everything tastes authentic the way it would if she had used animal sources. Amazing.
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@petey tonei
I'm glad your cousin can prepare foods in a tasty manner, but that is not my point. There are over 7.5 billion people on our planet, many of whom are starving to death and desperate to incorporate whatever protein (and calories) they can into their diets. The vast majority of humans cannot simply go to a store and pick out maple syrup or coconut oil as alternative food choices, nor turn down the nutritional benefits of eating eggs. Unfortunately, some vegans (not all, of course) will disparage those who are unwilling or simply unable to eliminate all animal-based products. People should be free to choose their own diets, preferably in a responsible and healthy way, but they should not force others to conform to their choices, or belittle the omnivores for following gastronomic instincts that have evolved over thousands of years.
1
@Dismayed Maple syrup is also significantly more expensive than honey. It's nice that your cousin has the financial resources to support that lifestyle, but don't assume that everyone can.
Have been eating an entirely plant-based diet for 20 years (vegetarian for even longer) and don't preach. Also don't get embarrassed; it's just a fact of how I eat and express my values in the world.
But given the bully pulpit right here, I will say one thing: I and most other doing-it-right vegans will have longer lifespans for how we eat. We will bury many of our meat-eating friends and family; I already have.
I'd rather still have those loved ones around. But even if I had preached it probably would not have convinced anyone. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
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@mrkee
See this is why vegans get a bad rep. I get the need to evangelize. But please understand every human is unique so there is no mythical one diet for all.
A vegetarian or vegan diet will kill me much quicker than a meat based diet. Partially to autoimmune diseases, but mostly due to where my ancestors came from. I have it great compared to people with severe nut allergies as they could die from their meal being prepped in the same place as a vegan meal that included nuts. My soy allergy can be controlled and I just need to be sure to eat very small amounts of well cooked cold weather and root vegetables to avoid the gastric/intestinal problems.
2
I find most of the fast food ads revolting: but do I detect a sense of glee in those ads--TV and in my snail-mail--as they announce the latest outrageous concoction in the fat/calorie/salt competition? Maybe. I read that Americans are now consuming more red meat than ever--expensive as it is. Here's yet another instance of complete denial in the popular culture. Big Food still finds it worthwhile to spend a lot of money on ads--the making of them and the distribution of them. Hey, this is the Consumer Economy: what we are and what we do. We don't know any other way to create wealth and let most people participate in an economy. Medicine, food, entertainment and even war--all consumer, market driven. Will enough people ever understand and accept this? No. Humanity, 7.5 billion strong, will have to experience a cataclysm, a world catastrophe. The survivors, maybe, will change their ways out of necessity as all the usual sources of abundant food are disrupted. This, when there are a few hundred million survivors, worldwide. Well, the earth will survive in some form for hundreds of millions of years, until the sun expands and consumes it, or until a whopper of a collision with another celestial body. We are so much dust and are racing towards our own self-inflicted extinction. In the next iteration of sentient life, perhaps that being will be less fearful, greedy and destructive. Still, humans have been interesting.
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I am vegan 7 years now but it has been a long process and I have had dairy and egg products along the way. I don't know any fellow vegans that preach to non-vegans. I have never witnessed such personally. What I do encounter often is people judging me for "not being vegan enough" both from inside the vegan community and outside. Inside the vegan community there is a movement to differentiate "ethical vegans" who somehow have more pure motives for being vegan than other vegans (eye-roll indeed). Outside the vegan community, omnivore friends love to catch me if we are at a restaurant and I don't make a public fuss that a cocktail might have a non-vegan ingredient in it. Saving the planet and changing humanity's view that other sentient animals don't deserve our respect isn't going to happen with purist views. We make thousands of decisions per day on an individual level. What if we just all try to make a few more of those decisions every day with environmental sustainability and kindness and respect for other beings in mind? I am not saying that we don't need some large-scale transformations in the food system, which has largely not been updated in the USA since post-WWII, but as we make these shifts on a societal level, on an individual level let's applaud the good efforts and avoid judging each individual food choice.
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You’re completely correct. Thanks for great article. Here’s a related question. Why do republicans hate Prius drivers? I’ve asked many, and they never have an answer.
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I certainly see the values of being vegan. But vegans do need to recognize that humans evolved to eat a different diet. That is why some of us don’t do well on the generally high-carb, legume-heavy vegan diet. Check the menus of most vegan eateries: rice, beans, noodles, soy, & perhaps a salad. Lots of commercial vegan “cheeses” are full of tapioca, & other starches. Even whole grains & rice can be problematic for some of us, as can all the soy products (pretty much all of the “fake” burgers, chicken, etc. are made of soy or of wheat protein), and many peoples’ digestive systems don’t do well with soy. There are regional differences for this, just as their are for people who evolved to digest cows’ milk and those who didn’t. If I did not eat dairy products, eggs, and fish, I would have very little left to eat. One cannot really live on green vegetables and a few fruits. The fact that vegans have to find a way to get their B vitamins is proof that we did not evolve to be vegan.
Another point is that lots of vegan food is junk food. After all, a bag of sugar is 100% vegan. Vegan does not mean healthy. I have nothing against vegans, and if they feel physically good with it, great for them. But for lots of us it is important to find more sustainable farming, more ethical ways to raise chickens for eggs (or meat), more ethical ways to dairy farm, and decrease all the packaging (especially plastic) of all of our food. Concern about overpopulation of the earth would help, too.
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@Dfkinjer
Ethical and sustainable farming doesn't stop at the barn door. This two crop rotation soy/corn is very damaging to the environment. Organic farming isn't much better. Row crop run-off contaminates our fresh water sources. They also deplete aquifers the same as non-organic.
An honest question, would vegans be okay with animal manure used as fertilizer? The residue typically stays on the plants and other animal chemicals get incorporated into the plant.
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@Dfkinjer Lots of vegans/whole food plant-based do not eat junk food or rarely, as a treat like everyone else. It's not because you see it more and more in the shops that they are those buying this stuff. It's actually good options for meat eaters trying to reduce/people transitioning/with little time or knowledge to cook. But so much of the "normal" food is vegan (rice, pasta, fruits, veg,..). People are afraid of whole grains, lentils, chickpeas,.. because they are not used to eat them and fear the bloating. However they are full of great nutrient and just need to be introduced gradually to let the gut/microbiome adjust. They are so much cheaper/healthier without anyone having to die to produce them.
Of course! If the manure comes from an animal sanctuary where the animals enjoy a happy life until their natural death. Ethical vegans are against animal suffering, not against animals.
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As I have been a vegetarian, mostly vegan, for 40 years. For my first twenty years of life, I often wondered why I had no compunction about biting into a juicy steak while entirely putting out of my mind the horrifying chain of events that brought that steak to me. Denial, it is called.
Then one day I had lunch with one of those peachy vegans, often described in letters here. "Go ahead, make your case", I said, certain his arguments would stick to me no better than water to a duck. When the lunch was concluded, I had become a vegetarian. I honor preachy vegetarians and wish they could all be as effective as my friend.
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What I don’t understand about vegans is their willingness to consume all kinds of processed food-like substances with unpronounceable ingredients to replace the animal protein and conventional versions of everyday foods in their diet. The health of the planet may be better off but I personally would not feel healthy eating fake versions of real foods.
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@TT, food chemicals additives colorings preservatives ought to vanish from earthly diets! Most vegans I know don’t use canned foods or any additives. My cousin makes her own vegan sausages bacon at home, without using any kind of chemicals. Her meals are absolutely finger licking. I have an entire photo album of meals she prepared using fresh produce and ingredients.
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What a needed column. Thank you. I am like you; a vegetarian/pescatarian, who sometimes eats meat. But I have been influenced by vegan friends, and am convinced that the world would be a better place if we significantly limited our meat consumption and went to a plant centric diet. Certainly, our planet would be better off. I am also convinced of the morality of ensuring that every living species is respected and given the opportunity for a decent life.
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Thank you. I’ve been vegan for 17 years. I’m not preachy at all, and find it weird and just sad that non-vegans automatically label me as much. Non-vegans never ask why I’m vegan, and I know they really don’t care nor are interested. Frankly I don’t know many vegans where I live, and the ones I do, aren’t preachy either. Why the heck one would be bothered if I don’t eat animal flesh (any longer), except it might make them feel uncomfortable. Mostly people think I’m just weird, as they do other vegans, “What do you eat?”
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You are right. Thank you for saying this. Like you, I'm a vegetarian/pescatarian. I haven't managed the fortitude to go vegan because eating out where I live would be practically impossible. Most people I know are relatively polite about my food preferences, but I am still on the receiving end of occasional bacon jokes. It's tiresome.
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We eat salads from Monday thru Thursday, from Sping thru Autumn
We do that because:
1. My husband was diagnosed with Type II Diabetes
2. I don't have too cook except on the weekends
3. It lowers our grocery bill
We eat eggs and meats on Saturday. On Sundays we eat eggs and fish. I will make a grain dish with that. Usually either Brown Rice or Pilaf Bulgar. Otherwise we never eat anything made with grains, such as pastas, breads, etc. We have cheese often because this is France after all.
This has nothing at all to do with vegan because I was a vegan in the late 60 until 74, and then it had nothing to do with farm animals. Vegetarian meals are cheaper to prepare and are more versatile requiring less meat and carbohydrates.
My paternal grandparents were dairy farmers in south Texas and as far as I can remember their animals were well treated. The chickens roamed and returned to their coups at night, the cows came to be milking barn twice a day, and male calf were castrated and kept in a large enclosure until they slaughters for veal. Turkeys were also kept in a large enclosure until they began to grow so large they crowded one another and then they began to be sold or in parcels to local butchers.
What is industrial farming practiced today is because we don't support farmers by demanding low food cost and we allowed the government to sanction monopolies again. It is our fault that big monopolies exist in ever facet of society and that is why we no longer govern us.
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I am with you on this one, Mr. Manjoo, as long as we are referring to the dominant food habits in industrial western societies. But I would not go so far as to berate pastoralist societies in, for example, Africa, where reverence of livestock is the norm, the culture is centered around livestock, the practices have been in place for many, many years and methods employed are completely unrelated to destruction of the environment. These societies have lived in harmony with their environment for a very long time; indeed, their societies may collapse only because of prolonged droughts brought about by climate changes caused by other industrial and meat-eating societies.
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@The North Excellent point. The use of meat for food in these societies is natural and appropriate. Native Americans have always been the same. Those societies could have continued infinitely in harmony with the earth. We are on the edge of the end.
I suspect that I fall near the middle of the curve with my reactions to the spontaneous vegan encounters that I have experienced in my so-called adult life. When somebody has the need to announce they are vegan, I interpret any subsequent explanation as entirely political, despite the usually semi-informed rationalization offered as their explanation. I am one of the smug omnivores for whom this article was written. So, let me get this out of the way. Thank you! You guys are right about the cruelty & selfishness of excessive meat consumption. You are wrong to assume any moral superiority based on your vegan diet. While adult vegans make their own decisions & can delay malnutrition with strenuous dietary gymnastics, any adult that prioritizes vegan ideology over providing the full range of nutrients required by a child in the first decade of life, has declared that child's well-being to be inconsequential. Real, substantial moral superiority can only be achieved, given the unconscionably unjust distribution of nutrients, by refusing all food until all starving children are saved. I just can't bring myself to pursue moral superiority at that price, and consequently have been forced to recognize & accept the savagery upon which my survival depends. I'm not proud of my callous daily consumption of nutrients. But I have accepted the consumption of nutrients as a necessity I share with all other animals that walk, crawl, swim or fly this planet. There is no real moral choice.
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@mike4vfrnWhy do so many of the worlds dietetics associations agree that vegan and veggie diets "are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes"? What do you know that these large, well resourced and well funded organisations don't? Do tell us.
3
@Gazzy J One of the few things I know is that objective controlled dietary studies of self-identified vegans usually detects a higher incidence of vitamin, mineral & amino acid deficiencies than are found in non-vegan control groups. A disciplined, professionally guided vegan can indeed avoid such problems, but they are apparently atypical. Personally, I have substantially reduced my meat consumption for some of the same reasons others commenting here have identified, but I don't see the point of pursuing ideological purity. I think advocating improvement is the smart approach.
B-12 Supplements
I don't think vegans have it rough because of the guilt feelings or defensiveness of others. It's just that it's very difficult to find a restaurant (or a home cooked dinner) that vegans and omnivores will both enjoy. So when a vegan friend tells me that he or she can't join me at a restaurant because there will be nothing for him or her to eat there, I don't find it "preachy" but I do find it to be a request that I don't want to honor.
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@Joel thanks for sharing your perspective. I have been wondering for almost twenty years why my omnivore friends cannot choose restaurants that have more options for both omnivore and vegetarians when we all get together. Personally, in New York with so many options there is no shortage of restaurants that have something for everyone. So I am often hurt when friends organize a dinner at the 10% of restaurants (my personal estimation) that make no effort to include any dishes without animal ingredients, or refuse to consider joining me at a vegetarian leaning restaurant the 4th or 5th time we meet up after going to meat-centric places the first 4 times. Please understand that we have been honoring omnivore's preferences and requests for years, by attending birthdays, celebrations and get togethers organized around consumption of animals. Most of us, myself included, are not asking that you forego meat but considering that others have different beliefs than you seems the most polite and fair thing to do when socializing.
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@Sakura My experience with friends who identify as vegan is that they don't trust the food preparation at most of the 90% (your estimate; I think that's way too high) of restaurants that make an effort to offer non-meat dishes. Ironically, steakhouses may be among the most accommodating since most offer salads, steamed vegetables, baked potato, etc. Many vegans worry that more complex dishes at a non-vegan restaurant may include some animal based stock, butter or egg, etc., in the preparation process.
1
@Joel. Yes, and then they embarrass the rest of the table by fussing about it with the waiter.
Thank you very much for this rational, kind, and (considering the mockery you mention) brave article. I live with my vegan partner and two vegan flatmates in London. As a result of reading your article, I've decided to take the final step and stop eating eggs. After I finish the half dozen in the freezer...that's it! You have turned me vegan. You did that by making me realise how my dearest friends never once preached to me or tried to guilt me out of my diet. They just did their thing with compassionate awareness of the consequences of their chosen diet. I love these non-preachy vegans I live with, and I'm gonna join them! Thanks for the article.
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Timely op-ed, very well stated. And I totally agree that guilt has a lot to do with omnis attitude towards vegans.
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The environmental argument for veganism is false.
The second a vegan has a child, they have just wiped out whatever environmental reduction of being a vegan may have had. Our planet's population is the biggest contributor to environmental stressors.
What to help the environment? Adopt an unwanted child, don't breed more.
As to ethical arguments? Sure. But that isn't what sells these days, so its to the environmental argument we go. But show me a vegan who is having children arguing they are environmentally conscious and I will show you someone who is not thinking things through rationally.
7
@pjc
No.
The environmental argument for veganism is true.
And so is the environmental argument for decreasing the rate of growth of the human population. In fact, to zero.
But for some bizarre reason/s, mocking vegans is acceptable, while promoting means (or even the vision) of decreasing population growth is taboo. With recent estimates of the population 'levelling off' at 9 billion (AFTER reaching perhaps 10 billion - now there are two pretty thoughts) one wonders why articles concerning deforestation, while alarming and valuable, so greatly outnumber those concerning the spectre of a planet swarming with humans...and little else.
5
@pjc is a vegan child less destructive in their impact then an omnivorous child? I'd agree that not having a child is better still. The premise of your point that 'the environmental argument for veganism is false' because they might have children doesn't make much sense.
1
I had never considered becoming vegan until I was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer. I didn't know that animal fat was food for cancer cells as are any kind of processed meat. It was not difficult to change to a diet that I should have been following all along. The result has been threefold, more energy, weight loss and smaller grocery bills.
5
It all comes down to what is considered normal and what is abnormal. There is no pure meat / diary consumer. Everyone eats vegetables. Hence everyone is vegan. Some consume meat meat and diary. So vegan is normal. Meat eaters are the ones who have to explain why they have to eat beyond vegetables. I don’t need to explain normal behavior. That’s how I frame my argument in conversations.
2
I've no problem with veganism in and of itself. What I do have a problem with is when certain people adopt a lifestyle or behavior because it's 'cool' or trendy. What was that recent article right here in the NYT about former vegetarians/vegans from Brooklyn or similar, and who are now 'ethical butchers' living in Brooklyn 2.0 (i.e., the Hudson Valley)?
And I have to chuckle over the fact that so many vegans/vegetarians I know have changed their reasonings over the years, as to why they follow these diets. First it was cruel to animals. Then when humanely-raised/killed meat became more available, suddenly they were no longer eating meat because it's bad for the environment. I suppose if we could find a way to still have meat while limiting damage to the environment, they'd find yet another reason not to eat meat. If you don't want to eat other animals, then fine, but don't keep changing your reasons to coincide with the latest PC/liberal/vegan ranting.
2
@Lisa Hah I love the idea that these widely mocked Vegans mentioned in this article are ever viewed as 'Cool' or 'Trendy'. As the writer points out that is more likely the "plant based" crowd who are eating that way purely for health reason, nothing to do with ethics. Veganism extends far beyond ones diet.
2
A question I have about veganism is about the rise in processed vegan food. Are the ingredients in some of that, such as palm oil, still causing plenty of environmental damage? I assume less so than raising meat? Most of the (few) vegans I know eat a lot of processed food which I can't help thinking isn't all that healthy.
2
@Abby a lot of vegans actually also veto palm oil and are the first to lobby companies. A vegan diet in and of itself does not guarantee healthfulness though - Oreos, french fries are all vegan! Moving to a whole-foods, minimally processed plant based diet is what's best for everyone.
If the choice is a meat party or a vegan burger, at least the vegan version doesn't contain a World Health Organisation-recognised carcinogen (red and processed meat) and has zero cholesterol (something only found in animal products).
8
@Jeni. The following is just one description of the Impossible Burger. Other articles do say that while this and other fake meat products contain no cholesterol some contain more saturated fat than a burger made of beef.
“Is an Impossible Burger healthy? Compared to a same-sized beef patty, an Impossible Burger contains a comparable amount of calories (240 to 260), but it scores lower in a few regards. The first is that it contains way less protein — 19 grams versus 28 grams — which may make it less filling, London says.Apr 29, 2019
Good Housekeeping › diet-nutrition”
I've never mocked a vegan. Why would I? I actually don't care what anyone eats. I just wish people could stop talking endlessly about what they will or won't eat. It's utterly boring.
8
Thank you to the New York Times for painting vegans in a positive light because, as written, they are often labeled negatively. Those who are vegan oppose the unnecessary exploitation and killing of animals. It seems that, by word, most people share these values. It is in action that most of society fails to be vegan. Veganism must be and is on the rise. Animal agriculture may have money on its side, but veganism has the truth. May the truth win.
9
The inherent contradiction of veganism is much of those vegetables are picked by serfs at best, and not much above slave labour. And as to global warming - to keep a small carbon footprint, I assume New Yorkers will be eating pickled vegetables this winter.
2
@Tom is that not also true of animal agriculture workers/slaughterhouse workers. If we take it as a given that both vegetable and animal production includes some sort of human exploitation at some level would it still not make more sense to go for the option that has the least environmental exploitation?
4
Feel good about yourself if you avoid eating meat but don't stop at the dinner table. Products harvested or manufactured from livestock other than muscle (meat) are everywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_product
2
Thank you for the tenderness that fills this op ed.
3
Good article. But I wouldn’t necessarily refer to the adoption of a plant based diet as a “belief system” and relate it to religion, although indeed there are many who ground their dietary choices primarily on moral grounds. If one chooses not to eat meat based on the “irrefutable evidence that our addiction to meat is killing the planet” I would not regard the choice as anything other than the only rational choice to make. The fact that most of humanity does not make that choice is evidence, I would say, of a delusional belief system, somewhat akin to climate denial.
2
Wow. I became a vegetarian as a child (couldn't tolerate the idea of loving my animal plush toys and eating real animals) and have been vegan for 24 years now (I'm 58). I have never experienced taunting from the family, friends or strangers that others describe here. I'm kind of shocked.
3
Kind of similar story here. Vegan 12 years, vegetarian about 25 years before that. Don’t recall ever being mocked, not even a little.
Could be that I lived in London, California and NYC...
or maybe they just did it behind my back! :)
Mr. Manjoo's commentary is refreshing and unabashedly honest. I cannot say that about the commenters who are bashing yet again. They miss the point entirely. Let's take a holiday, shall we? The shoot from the hip approach is wearing thin. Look, it's hard to be honest at times. A cultural change is tough. There was a time women weren't permitted to vote or own property. Vegans are in the news so much more because the time is right. Defenses are up because deep down you know the truth about how the meat on your plate got there. Those animals hurt, bleed and are terrified. It's not their choice. The slog about needing animal protein and the rest of it is purely rationalizing. There are millions of vegetarians and vegans out there who are long lived, healthy individuals. Isn't it time to be kinder all around?
16
While it's easy to be a junk food vegan (cereal, bagels, pasta, chips, pretzels, rice, packaged frozen processed food, etc.), it is virtually impossible to be a healthy vegan. I know a plant-based couple, and the amount of effort and preparation far exceeds what the average person raised on a microwave will ever do.
It is also deficient in vitamins and minerals, and therefore an unnatural way for humans to eat. We were made to eat animal products.
4
You really have got to be kidding, right? I’ve been vegetarian since I was 24 and vegan for 17 years after that, I’m 65. I’ve cooked from scratch my whole adult life, as I learned from my grandmother and mother, both gourmet cooks. I learned to garden from my father, a country doctor, and lately starting canned after my 75 yr old neighbor started sharing her orchard fruit with us. You don’t sound like you know much about nutrition at all, plus there are millions of vegetarians and vegans worldwide.
Most people I know who eat a SAD (standard American diet) rarely eat fruits or veggies, let alone the recommended RDA amounts. My husband is a hunter, tho only eats his game 1-2x month (his choice at home), as he’s quite happy eating the meals I prepare (we’ve been married 32 yrs). When we do eat out, rarely, he’ll eat meat.
3
The biggest thing people can do to help the environment is stop being enormous and eating way more than a human needs to eat. A sizeable portion of Americans eat 3 and 4 times the amount of food they actually need.
5
Being a vegan is worse overall for both the individual and the environment. Sure, they don’t eat dairy or eggs, but instead they take numerous supplements for vitamins and minerals to get the proper nutrients. Even after taking all the possible pills considered “healthy”, it is literally impossible for vegans to get all the necessary nutrients that non-vegans get. Pills can not contain certain nutrients from animals, such as eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid. And if unnatural and processed food is unhealthy, why do they frequently swallow pills to get nutrients?
8
@Jack Johnson This isn't true; those on plant based diets may want to take certain supplements (namely B12), but can also get these from fortified foods. The health benefits of not eating animal products (XX% reduction in risk of contracting and potentially dying from cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes) by far outweighs the inconvenience of having to take a supplement
8
And how is the vegan diet worse for the environment?
5
@Joshua Aren’t fortified foods another form of supplement? The supplement is added to the food instead of in pill form.
1
"Many are called. Tofu answer".
It's the only "Zippy the Pinhead" quote I remember, and one I will never forget. For reference, Churchill said during WWII: "Many are called, but too few answer."
3
$100 a month gets me a couple pounds of ground beef and pork, a couple pounds of chicken breasts (with and without bone), a full, and substantial spring chicken ready to be roasted, sirloin and even filet mignon. Beef that is so mild, tender and gently flavored that cooking it is almost a sin. I decline to not enjoy a few raw slices.
The numbers average out to be higher for the chicken and vastly lower for the beef.
The mammals eat grass, live in open fields. I wish they were like the cow in the Restaurant at the End of the Universe. I accept that is a fantasy. So I stop while cooking to thank the spirit that inhabited that cow, pig or chicken.
We ultimately are all food. We are food for worms or for the air. I can accept the death of other mammals that allows me to sustain. But there are limits; there are boundaries, including gratitude.
I also know that if I ever wanted to be Vegan that there is a wonder bean that would lead the way: chick peas, garbanzo beans. Delicious, full tasting, happy to mix with any spices.
I will not be a vegan because I like shellfish to the extreme. Yet garbanzo beans could tempt me to give up all meat.
1
An often forgotten fact about meat eating is that if every meat eater were to make some modest, gradual reductions in meat consumption, they would hardly notice it, be more selective about the quality of meat they consume and as a result, create important animal welfare and environmental benefits. It is really not that hard to go from eating meat almost every day to just once a week and eventually maybe a hamburger twice a year. I have done it and don't miss meat that much.
There is a huge upside to moderation which the whole veganism movement has buried in their pursuit of a zero-tolerance policy. We should learn from vegans, in terms of what good, enjoyable plant based food can be. But at there's also merit in them acknowledging that a message of moderation is something important too.
6
After many years of asking the Times to write about sustainability, after participating in Farhad's unique office hours last month, he does this! So thanks so much. However, I didn't foresee him choosing the vegan angle.
Speaking of which, several unrelated thoughts.
First, I'm also ahead of him regarding his anticipation of being called a "killjoy." To my comment on someone else's column last week, another reader called me "Buzzkill." However, most properly, they said: "Mr. Buzzkill." There! I survived.
Being married to a vegan, he is right about everything here, including why they get mocked. Still, my reduction of meat consumption had plateaued until it dawned on me that I wasn't going to get my body fat percentage down any other way. So I took it further. And it's working. So add that one to the whatever-reason-works list.
A bit off-topic, perhaps, but the powers-that-be at the Times should consider other terms that also get short shrift. That is, when they do come up, which is rarely, they're treated in a one-sided, negative, arguably non-liberal way (strange for the Times), when there are positive arguments that can be made for them--but are not. These are post-modernism, hippies, and the need to ultimately limit population size.
Finally, I can't recall many articles in which the journalist suggests that so many readers are so wrong, and about something as personal as what they eat. We could use more of what-we-don't-want-to-hear.
A lot of the right bases on this one!
8
Great satire. I have never argued with someone’s choice of veganism, with the exception of the one who tried to convert me.
The clearing of the Amazon is for crops, such as soybeans, as well as meats. I eat meat sparingly and only had 2 children (zpg). In the same month when dozens were killed by gun violence, including the attack on Hispanic shoppers at Walmart, I hope no one is serious preaching to others about their diet preferences.
Just to be clear, soybeans are primarily grown to feed animals.
7
Yeah, no. This is patently untrue. No one grows soybeans primarily for animals. The economic value is the oil.
1
@Mr. Hughes 70% of Soy grown in the Amazon is for animal feed according to the figures in the UN's food climate report published last year. That's more than no one.
3
Hominids have been hunter-gatherers since days of homo erectus, 1.8 million years ago. A diet of vegetables, nuts, fruit and berries, with a little meat or fish once or twice a week to boost our protein is what we've evolved to eat. This is a sustainable diet.
Meat with most meals everyday is what we should avoid.
2
The arguments for why healthy people should adopt veganism are strong. But I wish that advocates of veganism would recognize that for many diabetics, a vegan diet is non-workable because of the high carbohydrate content required to get enough nutrients. A diabetic who is environmentally conscious can (if s/he's wealthy enough) eat pasture-finished meat,line-caught fish, and/or free-range eggs and dairy, etc. and keep the glucose levels down. It is very, very difficult to manage good glucose control if you don't eat animal protein, which of course is carbohydrate-free.
2
@me
Some research has shown a link between red meat and type 2 diabetes. There are many vegetarian options for obtaining protein. Legumes are high in protein and their complex carbohydrates are digested slowly, which promotes healthy levels of blood sugar. Other recommended foods are nuts, and seeds. Soy is low in carbohydrates.
7
@Eric--I don't eat red meat; I do eat poultry, fish, eggs, and dairy. For me (and yes, I know, anecdotes are not evidence), a plant-based diet is trouble. When I eat animal protein and leafy and non-starchy vegetables, and restrict my carbohydrates, my glucose is under good control, I lose weight, and my cholesterol and triglycerides go down. When I rely on legumes for protein, much as I love legumes, my glucose levels spike and I gain weight. Perhaps different people react differently.
1
@me You should check out https://nutritionfacts.org/video/diabetes-reversal-is-it-the-calories-or-the-food/, which reviews research that shows that a fully plant based diet has been observed to reverse Type 2 diabetes.
1
I love this article. I've just recently become a wannabe vegan, which is major progress for me. It's about health and the environment--our society and our planet are sick, and food is a major culprit in both cases. It's true, meat has to go. It's a change, a big painful change for many people, but it's hardly impossible. I find it empowering because there are so many things I can't do to reduce my carbon footprint. This is something I have the power to do, so I feel it's my duty to other animals and to the planet to do my best. Cue the eye rolls!
16
If nearly every vegan, and vegetarian, didn't bring up their "superior" dining habits within 10 minutes of meeting them, I might be more inclined to listen.
11
Amen to that!
For the record, Veganism doesn't exist anywhere there is hunger. It is little more than the height of food privilege. Placing veganism on some kind of moral pedestal is completely misguided and ignores the plight of those who don't have access to these so called morally superior foodstuffs. Take issue with the fast food industry and the corporate farms/ranches and their lack of ethics but please do not convey those with the privilege of abundant food security as some kind of altruistic solution. Your privilege is showing.
28
@Erik I've seen like 10 vegans in these comments cite the fact that half a billion people keep a vegan or vegetarian diet... as if they're doing it by choice, and not because they live in such poverty that meat is completely unaffordable.
@Erik I've seen like 10 vegans in these comments cite the fact that half a billion people in India keep a vegan or vegetarian diet... as if they're doing it by choice, and not because they live in such poverty that meat is completely unaffordable.
@Erik
India has the 3rd lowest meat consumption of any country and many vegetarians. I don't believe India could be called a privileged country. Israel has the largest percent of vegetarians of any country.
3
I'm 77 years old and I just adopted a whole plant-based diet (the acceptable version of vegan) about a month ago. I certainly considered the animal cruelty and environmental issues (Animal agriculture is responsible for the production of more and more dangerous greenhouse gasses than all of the fossil fueled vehicles in the world.), but the primary attraction was the benefit to my health. I have not eaten much meat, except seafood, for many years. Based on my early experience so far, I wish I had quit eating animal flesh 50 years ago.
10
Thank you for this article. I went vegan because I couldn't anymore participate in a system of mass cruelty. I went vegan because I couldn't bear the thought of contributing to the pain, misery and death of sensitive beings. I let meat and dairy go to be happy and to feel free. I was saddened to discover that many people met my choice with anger or defensiveness. It was a slap in the face. There is nothing wrong with being vegan. Everything about it, like the article states, is right, and good. Vegans abstain from causing pain. I hope you will too, one day.
23
@Shanon
Do you have a cat or dog? I see a lot of vegans with pets opening up a can of food and not thinking twice about it. Funny.
But anyhow, hundreds of millions of years of things eating things eating things. It's just the way life is on this planet. Watch a shark play with a seal. Watch a lion take down prey. Pain is just another part of life. It's not going away simply because humans recently evolved an ability to ponder it. And it's disappointing vegans cannot admit that the plant kingdom is also sentient and reacts to stimuli with a range of responses. I suppose it's all perception and the unique way human neurons have been trained to think about what reality is, often at odds of the data of eons that can be examined.
5
@Matthew
How do you know what people are thinking about their pet food? Why did you generalize that all vegans can't admit something? Plants certainly react to stimuli, but sentience has not been proven as far as I know. Besides, we KNOW animals are sentient and feel pain. We have to eat something, so plants are the best option for us currently.
I don't understand your point. Pain is unpleasant and we ALL seek to minimize our pain. Whether pain is a part of life is irrelevant to the discussion. The more important question is: if it is in my power or capacity to minimize the pain or suffering of another, should I do so? Do I have an obligation to do so? Am I better for doing do? Do I gain something when I make the choice to help minimize the pain of another? If the answer is yes, then it seems we should absolutely consider veganism because it seeks to minimize the suffering of others. The golden rule in action.
11
@Shanon
Hundreds of millions of of years of life on the planet all about the exchange of protein. Humans are the only species to ever navel gaze about it. That's all I'm sayin'. Eventually Earth will sink into the sun, humans having long since disappeared.
I don't pretend to know what "people are thinking about their pet food", I just know a few vegans that have pets that they feed animal products too with nary a bit of irony. Because they know their pets really need animal protein.
5
Don't conflate veganism with vegetarianism.
It's easy to avoid meat, or at least avoid meat most of the time, and then only eat it about once a month or less by purchasing only locally raised meat from farms you can literally visit.
On the other hand, avoiding all dairy products is not only hard in terms of logistics, but for many people veganism gets twisted up in the ropes of the dangerous dieting world where dairy and meat and carbs and pretty much everything are regularly excoriated and cut out in order to avoid calories and burn fat. That's where making fun of vegans come from. When I worked at Whole Foods, there were endless customers going vegan as a way to lose weight. Little did they know our vegan muffins at the time were 450+ calories each.
Vegetarianism is healthy and achievable for many Americans. But veganism is not a realistic option unless you have the resources and time to shop and experiment with new recipes. And really, we should be able to find a way to sustainably harvest and consume dairy products in a way that doesn't require destruction.
12
I have been a vegan for decades. It’s undeniably easier than ever to eat a tasty vegan diet without having to work too hard at it. That said, I have recently noticed that vegans are often the go-to punchline. We’re the one group people still feel okay about making fun of. (I don’t fret about it too much. At least people know what “vegan” means now.) I would also like to say that every time I have seen a vegan “preach” it was because someone else at the table had insisted that the vegan defend their lifestyle.
15
People buy into the idea of a veggie burger without any idea of ingredients or the processes used to produce them...how much water or fuel it takes...what kinds of preservatives...or their nutritional value.
Are they really easier on the environment?
6
@Raz they are actually MUCH better for the environment. I could be conflating the two, but Beyond Burgers take something like 97% less water than beef burgers do to produce, and I believe Impossible Burgers are at 98%. And both equate the protein of a beef burger, though I think Impossibles are a bit higher in sodium.
9
@JillianAccording to information on the Internet which I have already posted they do not contain as much protein as a beef burger. And some of the products, while being low in cholesterol, are high in saturated fat. They may me better for the environment, but not necessarily better for you. The Impossible Burger has 19 grams of protein vs. 28 for beef.
1
Yeah no. Google “Ecocide Burger”. These highly processed, yet “vegan” junk foods are bad for your health and bad for the environment.
1
i have been vegetarian for nearly 40 years and have always loved it, i was vegan for a couple of years in the 80's and it was awful, it was basically salad and beans back then in the UK, there seems to be loads of alternatives out there these days for vegans so i may get back into it. I don't shout if from the rooftops but when it comes up i always manage to get the facts and figures out there, why wouldn't i? Eating meat is generally not good for you, its not efficient, its generally cruel and nowadays there are plenty of alternatives, its a no brainier to me.
4
This is beautifully written. I wish your paper had more of these type of articles. The food section does not have enough recipes without dairy and meat as they should.
Thank you.
26
@Marta Alicia Agreed! Seems the Cooking section and the Science and News sections don't communicate much.
1
I’m not vegan, but I’ve been a vegetarian for most of my life. I never liked meat, but I had no idea that vegetarianism was a possibility until my older sisters all became vegetarian. It was a lightbulb moment! Becoming vegetarian was one of the best gifts I’ve ever given to myself. Being vegan has been more challenging for me, but I expect I’ll eventually get there and feel better for it.
What I’ve noticed over a lifetime of unsolicited comments from people who barely know me is this: there will always be people who think they know better than I do what I should do with myself, and there will always be people who are so defensive that my simply mentioning that I’m a vegetarian comes across as a judgment against them. Meanwhile I just keep searching for the meat-free option at the potluck.
Most of the preaching I hear comes from the meat eaters—and yet somehow vegetarians & vegans are the ones usually described as preachy or smug. Go figure.
I have a deep affection and admiration for vegetarians & vegans (or ANYBODY) who march and call upon all of us to do more to protect this planet for all species. Thank you.
12
I have tried eating vegan and vegetarian for months at a time and when it is cooked properly it is a fine way to go. But I am allergic to soy and nuts just make me nuts except as a snack. On trips to Southeast Asia I have eaten grubs and cock roaches. Not too bad as long as I close my eyes and are not too popular around here. A great salad is just great, but that alone leaves me jittery and unsatisfied over periods of time.
So when i do eat meat I pause and bless the animal that is nourishing me and perhaps when I am underground the bugs will stop and do the same.
6
Plants are alive. They can feel pain and experiments have proved that they can be anesthetized. The fact that you cannot hear a plant screaming in agony while it is being harvested does not make its pain any less real.
The fact of the matter is that unless you have chlorophyll and can use sunlight directly to make your own food (photosynthesis), you and every other organism like you is dependent on the mass slaughter of others to stay alive. That is life, deal with it.
6
@A Cynic The “suffering” of a plant cannot remotely be compared to the suffering of an animal. I’m not vegan, but this is one of the most ridiculous claims I have ever heard.
2
Plenty of us are doing it for health. I don’t kid myself that my refraining from meat and dairy and processed foods will save the planet. But I might save myself and I am the only one who can do so. The environmental and compassionate benefits feel good too! I am a physician who (like most physicians) was taught nothing about nutrition in med school or training. But now we have good, long term and population based data about the impact of animal products on human health. It’s inconvenient to learn that most of what is in the supermarket is unhealthy and is killing us. But so what? Do yourself a favor and take care of your body. If eating healthily is fanatical and eating oneself sick is normal, call me crazy.
6
If you are vegan - curious but feel overwhelmed about cutting out all animal products, check out VB6, NYTIMES food writer Mark Bittman's book about eating vegan until 6 p.m. Great recipes, interesting motivation on Bittman's part, doesn't make it feel impossible. Since February, I've been enjoying the hard shove away from the richness of my former choices. I still eat an omnivorous menu at dinner time, but that has also lightened. The effort is making me feel like my head isn't stuck in the sand on the climate crisis.
6
Veganism is cool! Veganism is also very accessible and can be seen as a blanket solution to environmental problems when it isn't. If you have the means and opportunity to be vegan I encourage you to do so but ending meat and dairy consumption on an individual basis does not cancel out your role in the exploitive production and harvest of fruit and grains. Being vegan does not mean you don't still participate in a capitalist society where workers are treated terribly and you still participate in detrimental behaviors that are the real issues at the root of especially American society. That being said, I love being vegan, my health has improved, I feel better, and I know I am in some way helping reduce our collective carbon footprint.
8
I am an omnivore who loves vegetarian food. The difficulty is finding really good vegetarian (vegan) restaurants. Surprisingly, there are several really excellent vegetarian restaurants in the capital of the deep south - Atlanta. Unfortunately for me, I live elsewhere now so the only good vegetarian meals I get these days are the ones I cook myself. I don't see why preachy vegans are any more annoying than people trying to promote their personal diets to friends, family, or strangers - low carb, high carb, low fat, high fat, all protein, minimal protein, hunt-maim-kill-the-beast-with-a-club diets. So, preach away vegans, just give me a moment to take my hearing aides out.
4
Do you feel the same about evangelicals (of any religion or concept) who chase you down the street and into your home? Probably not. And that's how many of us feel about vegans. Eat whatever you what within moderation. Don't be a nasty person. Don't act like god when talking to others who disagree with your worldview.
Vegans? The new thought police.
16
@Brian in FL I would guess they said the same thing 150 years ago: slavery abolitionists, the new thought police.
Dear Farhod Manjoo, You've made my day. No, wait, my life! I've commented to no avail in NYT pieces regarding diet, vegetarians/ vegans how angry and assaultive people get. Just crazy. There's never ever been anyone setting this straight. We really do suffer. We want the best for everyone and the beautiful animals and planet, all we get is grief. What's with the human race. Is it really guilt? I can't wrap my head around it. If I felt guilty about something, I'd have an urge to do something constructive about it. Fix it. To me this over reaction is something else. Is it not about a powerful, ingrained culture holding on for dear life? There's just something so desperate and irrational about people's responses. So many have financial stakes in meat production.
It's like other industries whose time have come (coal, oil). Eating animals is ridiculously outmoded. There's absolutely no reason for it.
I'm 66, I never had a fast food burger and I'm very much alive and well. If I can do this anyone can! I'd be a happy person if not for the pain heaved unnecessarily onto helpless, gentle creatures and our once beautiful planet. The Amazon! Thank you so much!
BTW, there's amazing vegan food and recipes all over the place. Truly wonderful!
12
Why do people mock vegans? Hmm, a mystery. Perhaps a quick, cursory review of the tag #vegan on Twitter could provide a hint.
Is passive agressive moralizing about your dietary restriction interesting to the rest of us? PETA? No, no it is not. Is standing behind a vegan in qeue for food as they inquire into the minutiae of the salad dressing's provenance a rewarding way to spend time on a lunch break? Another nah. Please do enjoy your gluten-free dairy-free vegan protein paste -with no honey (bees!) but please, please let the rest of us enjoy one of the simple, and perhaps few, pleasures allowed us in this mortal coil, without condescention, in peace, and with ...maybe just a little dab of A1.
15
The honey thing I seriously do not get. Bees are good for the environment, there’s no arguing about it. Beef may be bad, but chicken, if raised a certain way, is not, especially if you consider that most of the fake meat products are wrapped in plastic (sometimes multiple layers of it) while chicken can be bought wrapped in paper at the farmer‘s market. Wool is certainly better than plastics, yet serious vegans won’t wear it. And i know multiple vegan families who drive huge cars (in Berlin, where we have great public transport - at no charge to Berlin children - and bike paths)
I feel like the environmental aspect has been adopted by the vegan community for PR reasons - it just sounds better and gets more people to agree with the cause. But in reality, most serious vegans are animal rights proponents.
3
Everything we do has an economic and ethical cost. Our existence is fundamentally built upon killing other life and consuming it; no human being can live without this constant destruction of other life.
Nobody (except idiots, and we shouldn't care about them) mocks vegans for eating less meat per se. It's the religious element of it, the implication that by not eating animals we can somehow be absolved of sin, that people find worthy of mockery.
You can test this easily enough - does anyone mock people who try to eat less meat? Aside from a few idiots on the internet, nobody does. It's the lack of compromise that people find worthy of mockery, and that stems from a perfectly rational understanding everyone has that existence is itself a compromise.
Is veganism ethically superior to eating meat? Probably. But all consumption of other life is inherently ethically suspect. That doesn't mean we should let the great be the enemy of the good, but there's always going to be an understandable human reaction to mock those who think they've discovered the magic pill. Mocking the pious (especially when there's a hint of sanctimony) is as old as human history and perfectly understandable.
5
I’ll stop mocking vegans when they stop be self righteous and preachy ,so never.
10
Thank you, Mr. Manjoo, as a long time vegan and animal rights and environmental activist, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
9
Change may come indirectly by exposure, but more often change comes from movements that confront evils. People undoubtedly thought abolitionists were preachy and annoying. A vegan diet is too hard for me but I respect vegans and am grateful for those that stick out their necks to make a point.
5
I call myself plant-based. I am not vegan - my lip balm has beeswax, I wear leather shoes and wool and silk. I started eating mostly plants for the planet, my health and the animals. As one person mentioned, if I am out to dinner I will make exceptions in order to be polite and gracious to my hostess, and I usually will offer in advance to bring a dish to share. I find that if I am not militant about it I can start an open discussion about the many benefits of eating more plants than meat.
7
Killing animals for meat or abusing them in any way is ultimately a moral question. Since humans are capable of eating nutritiously without eating animal derived products, it is not a question of survival or health. Indeed, a vegan diet is more healthful than any animal derived diet.
I stopped eating meat over twenty years ago when I could no longer deny that eating meat is grossly immoral, essentially murder. Anybody who has lived with a pet, say a dog, a cat, a rat, or a horse, knows first hand that they are sentient, conscious animals who are very similar to humans. They feel pain, happiness, joy, love, anger, hate, shame, and so on. If you do not believe this, just read "Mama's Last Hug" by Frans de Waal. And these emotions are essentially the motivating force behind respect for human life and human rights. So why do we not grant the same rights to these conscious beings who are so similar to us in so many ways?
I believe the reason is human greed and self-centeredness, as it usually is in cases of moral corruption. People do not want to give up that pleasure of consuming tasty meat that they have always enjoyed, even though deep down they realize how immoral it is.
Because of the enormous destructiveness of humans, I have come to believe the earth would be much better off without us. Yet, this is not the optimal situation. A world where a smaller population of humans learns to respect the earth and all its creatures is the best solution.
13
@Tom Krebsbach--"Mama's Last Hug" is a beautiful and moving book. But it should be noted that the author, Frans de Waal, specifically addresses the question of whether humans are ethically obligated to give up eating meat, and answers that NO, they are not. He points out that our teeth and digestive systems make it abundantly clear that we, like our primate cousins, are omnivores. He does think that we are ethically obligated to raise and slaughter animals as humanely as possible. (Sorry, I don't have the book with me, so I can't cite the pages.)
2
@me Given the evidence that Frans de Waal provides, it is obvious to me that the only moral option for humans is to avoid killing animals for meat. It is beside the point as to whether Mr. de Waal actually follows that stricture or not.
Mr. de Waal states that he is much keener on avoiding meat eating than he used to be. For most people, including myself, it is a process of evolution from strict meat eater to avoiding it all together. It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. de Waal at some point becomes a total vegetarian.
One can argue that humans being omnivores means we should eat meat because that is what we have done in the past. But that is like arguing that we should wage wars because waging wars is what the human race has always been proficient at. The fact that we are omnivores means we have a choice, unlike absolute carnivores. And from a moral perspective, the choice should be obvious.
1
I've been mostly vegan (occasional cheese or egg) for almost 40 years. I had my last turkey after acquiring a homeless parrot and realizing the similarity to what was on my table. I have many vegetarian/vegan friends. I guarantee you they are healthier than the meat eaters I know. Neither I nor anyone I know preaches to anyone about their diet, but no doubt some do. Still, the defensiveness of meat eaters here is very telling. Face it--you don't care enough about animals to even try giving up your greasy burger. Sad for the animals and for you--you would be surprised at the world of flavors that await your cleansed palate. Empathy for all creatures is a good thing.
15
@theresa. Many animals are themselves carnivores or omnivores. (Benjamin Franklin started eating fish while on a sea voyage after observing fish in the bellies of fish that had been caught.) Many animals that eat meat are — like cats — obligate carnivores; they ave no other diet that will sustain them. Eating meat simply does not mean one does not care about animals. One wonders, if no one ate animals or used them for any purpose, would the sanctity of their lives sustain them, making the world one big wildlife sanctuary, or would they simply die?
6
@Raindrop Well of course many animals are carnivores and they have no choice in the matter. They have to eat other animals to survive.
But humans are not in that situation. And we are supposedly the moral animal in the animal kingdom, though you could never convince me of that fact. In fact, I would say we are the most immoral animal.
We have a choice in what we eat and we have a brain that can form moral judgements. Are you willing to place yourself at the level of a cat with regard to morality? I'm certainly not willing to do that. I'd like to think that I am capable of a higher moral inclination than a cat, even though I love cats.
Why don't you be truthful with yourself and tell yourself that you eat meat because you like it and are willing to ignore the moral questions surrounding it?
5
@Raindrop
Unlike other animals, we do have a choice in what we eat. As for the rest of your "argument," most animals are bred merely to be slaughtered, so you need have no fear of being overrun by lions and tigers and bears.
3
Love this article - smart and spot on. Thank you, Farhad.
5
Being vegan is confounding sometimes because there can be a big difference between living your Most Purely Vegan Existence and doing or supporting what will actually save the most animals, and it's not always clear on what side any particular action falls.
2
I'm not vegan but I have been completely vegetarian for 20 years. The reason? The ethics of killing (it would be called "murder" if done to a human) sentient life and visiting the cruelty of being raised to die at another's whim on those forms of life (to turn it around a little read Ishiguro's heartbreaking novel: "Never Let Me Go").
Killing for food seems so carelessly obvious as the choice- we almost all grow up with it- it's "natural" isn't it? Everything has its price and eating meat isn't free either. It places those who do it on an ethical low ground they can never overcome (if they care about anything except "what's for dinner?"). Just call me a "preachy vegetarian" because I have become tired of apologizing to others when it is those others who should do the apologizing.
5
@Candy--You do realize, don't you, that many, many animals are killed in the harvesting of grains and vegetables? Ground-nesting rodents and birds are wiped out by threshing machines and tractors; and of course, insects are killed by their thousands in agriculture. Unless you grow all your own fruits and vegetables, pick the insects off of them by hand, and tenderly carry them somewhere else, then your food kills animals. There is no way out of that. By all means, minimize the killing as much as you can (I gave up eating mammals in 1976, myself, so I understand that viewpoint), but don't make the mistake of thinking that being vegetarian means you're eating without contributing to the killing of animals. It can't be done.
4
History doesn't take sides. It's indifferent to us.
3
Thank you thank you thank you - there are so many synonyms for this phrase but right now that particular one will have to do. After having to swallow, almost literally, the NYT's Oh-look-at-these-thrilled-former-vegans-who-now-thrillingly-butcher-animals-isn't-this-wonderful article, you nailed why I eat as I eat, live how I live. It's been 45 years since I've eaten anyone else. None of it takes anything more than a line that's uncrossable: never eat anyone who would rather live. And that's all of us. Yet the vast majority of my friends and family do eat animals. In front of me. Always. Without any lecturing from me. Without making them feel as if my line must ever be their line. Because that is up to each one of them. Do I hope osmosis will take over? Do I wish for example to make it's perfect case? Of course. Does it ever? Sometimes. Yet we're called smug because of our beliefs. Killing others for our own satisfaction, pretend they don't suffer when they most obviously do, as if their lives exist only to serve us: if that's not the definition of smug, what is?
8
I am a volunteer for Consumer Reports and facilitate seminars on starting a sustainable diet. The target audience are those who are interested in increasing the intake of vegetables and fruit in their diets. My only problem is the invasion of vegans. They are arrogant and disrupt the program preaching the horror of killing animals. Totally turning off the other attendees. Any chance I had of transitioning their diet to a healthier one is lost. I respect their diet choices, but, like anti-abortionists and evangelicals they need to respect the choice of others.
6
I gave up eating red meat after visiting the Amazon and seeing acre after acre of cleared rainforest, all to make room for cows and their subsequent slaughter for Big Macs and Whoppers. That was over 10 years ago. I gave up all other meat around 7 years ago. You can do this. Please consider reading The China Study by T Colin Campbell, a dairy farmer who set out in his doctoral thesis to prove the benefits of dairy. He came to the opposite conclusion. Meat is not healthy and is not needed. Everyone asks how you can possibly get enough protein without meat. Ever see an elephant? A giraffe? None of these animals eat meat. The largest land animals historically were vegan, the sauropods. Going vegetarian is the 4th most important thing we can do to reduce greenhouse gas emissions according to Paul Hawken's great book Drawdown. Come on people. The clock is ticking and we need to make some serious changes. Quickly. This is one.
11
This was the best light hearted and convincing preaching I’ve read in a long time. it will modify my behavior. I suggest making it required reading for any course in persuasive writing
5
Thank you, Mr. Manjoo. I'm a vegan, and get utterly sick of the knee-jerk mocking over my choice not to participate in a dietary practice that involves nothing other than appalling cruelty to animals and destruction to the planet.
I literally never bring up my veganism to anyone, but, of course, after a while of associating with a person (meals out, snacks at work, etc.), they naturally learn about it. And then they themselves are the ones who cannot ever stop referring to it! This typically takes the form of childish, snide, completely unprovoked comments along the lines of, "Hope this is not offending you too much hahahah" when they eat meat in my presence. It's become very clear to me, from the fact that meat-eaters literally never shut up about my diet once they find out about it, that vegetarians and vegans make meat-eaters feel very uncomfortable and defensive.
If you want to participate in the horrific cruelty of the factory farming system; if you want to do harm to your body by eating meat multiple times a day (when we clearly evolved to eat meat only occasionally--a few times a week or month, if that); if you want to deplete the oceans of animal life and have animals die horrible deaths trapped in nets lazy fishermen discard; if you want to do the irreversible damage to the environment that the meat industry causes, well, that's all on your conscience, not mine. In the meantime, please just shut up about the choices I make.
15
Milk and meat lovers should investigate what goes on with the animals they eat. I would be one thrilled vegan if they could bring around change. It is to their best interest. If meat and milk consumers spoke out about the abject cruelty their food is subject to we could see real and meanful change in factory farming.
6
Thank you for writing this! This is something that has always bothered me; people hate vegans more than they hate haters! Why?
Every reason to be vegan makes complete, pretty selfless, sense. I also don’t think we need to be so black and white about it. Why can’t everyone just be a little bit more vegan? And why can’t policy support this by taxing (and accordingly forcing pricing) meat to be proportionate to the environmental and health tolls they are costing us all?
6
No, sorry. Eat less meat? Sure, good idea. Become a vegetarian? Well, if that's your thing, go for it. Veganism? Ridiculous.
The human body requires protein and absorbs it and various other essential nutrients most effectively and efficiently from animals. The efforts required to survive--as in not *die*--on a plant-only diet are obscene. The idea that even a large minority of the planet's human population could survive that way is the height of privilege and would probably not even occur to anyone other than spoiled, rich Westerners.
Of course, if you are a privileged Westerner, you have every right to choose a vegan lifestyle, with all of the expensive supplements, out-of-season produce, and carbon-footprint-intensive transportation infrastructure that it entails. But you should probably keep in mind that most of the world couldn't follow your example even if it were somehow inclined to do so. You should also recognize how your food choices will warp the global food marketplace and limit the options available to the less privileged, many of whom depend on the availability of cheap yet calorie-dense animal protein to *survive*.
All of the above also applies to the anti-GMO wackos.
6
HA HA HA!! I AM a “preachy vegan” — well, Plant Based Whole Foods eater. But I wasn’t always. I spent about 45 years being bullied for being vegetarian — and I was always obsequious and self-effacing, and apologetic. But apparently, eating lower down on the food chain as a vegetarian, for sustainability and environmental reasons, was an implicit criticism of those who eat meat. Somehow, I got the message to do better during the first Earth Day celebration, or thereabouts.
I’ve stopped being obsequious, self-effacing, and apologetic. The last several years have been liberating. Thank goodness, the times they are a FINALLY changing. But not fast enough.
5
People mock vegans because moral scolds (don't worry, they'll tell you) can be unpleasant to be around. If you want to be vegan, fine. Have at it. I respect your choice, without mockery.
Be careful about the next step. If having everyone go vegan is a necessary part of stopping global warming, it is time to start moving inland.
2
I don't mock anyone who isn't yelling at me about what a dreadful human being for not being exactly like them.
I eat far more peanut butter than anything pretty much anything else, and my intake of cheese and eggs is close to nill. I'm not defending a luxurious lifestyle, just advocating a different sales style from the one I've been faced with the last couple of discussions.
Good luck, try to avoid holy than thou if you can.
2
I think this columnist is missing the fact that there are other conscientious omnivores—just like the columnist!—who also abhor animal cruelty and factory-farmed animals. The vegans I know would never touch the meat substitutes that are called out--they don't want a simulated meat product. The "bleeding" burgers actually make them feel sick and disgusted. Those are actually more for omnivores who are choosing to eat less meat or would prefer an ethical option at a fast-food joint.
4
As a vegan, thank you.
8
Shame is not an effective tool of persuasion. Vegans who remember this will thrive.
PETA-style antagonism has done veganism a massive disservice and resulted in the widespread mockery of vegans. Turns out that when you antagonistically moralize at others about dietary choices they hold dear, they don't respond well. Vegans aren't the only ones who do this, but having watched this scenario unfold with vegans too many times to count, I honestly think vegan activists turn people away from veganism. Too many activists focus on getting people to go completely vegan instead of drastically reducing meat consumption.
Vegan communities hold themselves to a standard of purity that few people are attracted to. Some of the worst internet shaming I've ever seen has been directed toward self-identified vegans who were discovered to have eaten animal products or who publicly admitted that they were no longer keeping vegan. How does harassing someone on twitter for having a single egg after years of veganism help the planet? Wouldn't it be more effective to quietly lobby for a greater proportion of meals served by public institutions to be vegan?
3
Vegans are rightfully made fun of for being insufferably preachy and self-righteous.
It's a snobbish dietary trend and incredibly is ironically very "white" and "privileged" at its core. How many hipster vegan donuts shops are popping up in cities across the country, providing more fodder for narcissistic vegan Instagram accounts?
One other thing. The entire crux of your argument presents the issue as entirely either/or: veganism OR horrific animal abuse/environmental destruction. Animals CAN be treated humanely and raised for human consumption. The fact that this is not the norm, and therefore causing so much harm re: environmental/animal ethics, has more to do with capitalism than what people's dietary preferences are.
Also, you're right about the eye-rolling. Good lord man. A certain George Carlin quote (or a few) come to mind.
5
The first vegans I ever met were Rastafarians. They were neither white nor wealthy nor privileged. You make assumptions based on your own experience and not on facts.
2
Time for change, yes.
But Vegans are not too nice to the Non-Vegans either.
I am old now. Grew up on a farm in the 1950's when everything was REALLY organic.
How much processing goes into Beyond Burgers and lab-grown chicken?
What are the risks involved in it? What kind of pathogens will these products grow/cause.
How much waste and packaging will it generate?
Shall we eliminate all the farm animals of the world? Why would they be needed?
This is a very complex issue and only fools would rush in without thoughtful consideration.
3
I've heard people talk about preachy, self-righteous vegans, but I've never met one in real life. What I have encountered, many times, are obnoxious meat eaters giving me or other vegetarians a hard time for our dietary choices. Why? How does my diet impact them?
I think the stereotype of preachy vegetarians/vegans is a case of projection on the part of meat eaters.
9
Going vegan, or at least vegetarian, or sometimes pescatarian, is the one thing that can be done right now, today, that will benefit both the planet and one's self. If you tell me about your Prius and your solar panels and haven't made this one, easy, profound, choice, I might have to preach. I am not an indulger of hypocrites. There is an environmental cost to buying a "green" car or putting in solar panels, but there isn't to cutting meat out of your diet.
3
I am an omnivore who has been cutting back on meat rather radically. Over the years I have had many vegan and vegetarian friends and acquaintances none of whom have gone evangelical, some of whom have cooked delightful new dishes for me. If you do anything that is any way shape or form considered progressive, you will be mocked by know nothings, but not by anyone who matters. I was an early Prius owner and was both coal rolled and vandalized. I will expect no less when I get my Tesla. Ignore the noise, dump any friends who seriously attack you and move on. Those of us who are trying to save the planet in whatever way just need to ignore the nitpicking do nothings and keep on keeping on.
6
Magnificent column by Farhad Manjoo, my new heart-throb. He's right to point out the important matters on which vegans are speaking truth to power. He's also right on how sickening it has been watching mainstream journalists praise a new chicken sandwich, i.e. yet another way to consume the flesh of a captive sentient being who was raised in misery and despair, and to consider that a desirable and even prestigious experience.
7
I've become vegan for medical reasons, yet I have a taste for meat I can't deny. My doctor has granted me a once a month cheat meal, which is either a hot pastrami sandwich from Katz's, a big fat burger or, if the occasion warrants, a steak. I crave pizza and can barely escape the $1 pizzas around town or the occasional nibble of everything non-vegan. However, I know that the food I grew up on, the food I love, killed my father and uncle with heart attacks and strokes and threatens to do the same to me. I wish I had the will, discipline and the morality to be a true vegan.
4
I'm not vegan, but I'm trying it for a month as a food experiment. (15 days in) Other than missing meat or cheese when I'd normally make a lazy, regrettable food choice, it feels great! Takes a bit more planning, but physically it feels awesome.
I probably won't stay vegan forever, but greatly reducing my animal consumption is totally possible, and I will almost definitely feel better physically than before this experiment.
And if there are side benefits to the whole planet- what the heck could people be mad about? Although irrationality doesn't feel the need to explain itself, so....
5
Maybe a compromise is to identify yourself as a vegetarian. No one has ever mocked me for being a vegetarian, if anything, people are always concerned if they invite you over for a meal, asking repeatedly what they can make that you'll be able to eat. It seems like a white lie to omit that you also eschew dairy, etc.? Or would that be considered a sell-out?
Vegans obsessions with faux (plastic) leather and fur is bad for the planet. We need to eliminate plastics as much as possible in common products. Microplastics are a problem that will be with us for centuries. Then there is agave and quinoa hard on the environment. Honey production encourages people to keep bees, bees are good for the environment. Finally, nut milk is horrible for the environment. Nut trees are water hogs, and nut milk is a wasteful use of a product that takes so much water and resourced to grow. Cutting down/cutting out meat is a great idea, but Vegans have a lot of other baggage in their lifestyle that's no so great.
5
Let's show films of where those chicken sandwiches come from behind the counter, and the horror of it all. Yes, there is real harm to the environment and ignoring the cruelty of industrial food is unconscionable. Perhaps if all those who mock vegetarians and vegans had access to those factory farmed images, they might consider more of the world than themselves. There is a reason why the industrial farm industry works so hard to make those images illegal to shoot and prosecutes those who manage to see this human cruelty. If these meat and chicken sandwiches are so good, then why not see where they came from and the unimaginable violence and damage your cheap sandwich wrought.
6
Preachy vegans aren't a myth, they're just extinct because omnivores hunted them out of existence.
20 years ago every vegan I knew insisted on discussing veganism over every shared meal. That smug self-righteousness led to the preachy vegans getting excluded from social circles. I used to refer to them as the Taliban Wing of the Vegetarian Party, and the phrase "preachy vegan" strikes me as redundant to this day.
Now, it seems that vegans finally learned most of us won't stomach that preaching, as it's been a long time since I've heard it. But it will take the movement a long time to live down that reputation, deservedly so. That's a lesson progressives could use right now.
4
I'm not a vegan or even a vegetarian (yet), but I would say my meals now fall into the category of about 75% vegetarian and perhaps 50% vegan. I'm losing weight (in a good way) and feeling just better about myself.
Meat production in this day in age is just toxic, literally and figuratively. I want to personally step back and participate less in that negative cycle.
Maybe someday I'll extricate myself altogether.
7
@Will.
Great!
While the environmental and ethical concerns about meat consumption that vegans present are worth taking seriously, I have found that many vegans ignore similar concerns about plant-based foods. Almond milk, for instance, has a very serious and very localized environmental impact that limits the viability of other agriculture. Palm oil is responsible for the deforestation of some of the world's rainforests that are most diverse in animal life, but seems to be completely ignored by vegans. Corn is responsible for enormous quantities of fertilizers that make their way into our waterways and produce anoxic dead zones that kill marine life.
The animal rights arguments of vegans collapse when you consider their refusal to eat eggs even from hens that are not kept on industrial farms, and sometimes honey. Avoiding honey isn't an ethical choice, it's a dogmatic one.
Vegan diets are also a luxury that most of the world can't afford. Animals concentrate nutrients and proteins cheaply and efficiently, while alternative protein sources, like nuts, can be extraordinarily expensive. Insisting on purely plant-based foods in places where meat and dairy are an integral part of the cuisine is sanctimonious and insulting (if you don't believe me, try traveling through Italy with a vegan).
Should we all be eating less meat, and especially beef? Yes.
But insistence on a vegan diet ignores some of the biggest ethical and environmental problems of food production.
5
@gh Animals eat 40 times what they produce as food. National Geographic points out that a vegan diet saves 500 gallons of water a day. Meat/dairy is so much worse than almonds.
7
@gh. Not to mention that bees are a necessary part of crop fertilization, and human farm workers’ rights never seem to make it on the agenda.
3
Beans and lentils are inexpensive and delicious protein alternatives.
2
Thanks for your article, I’m a vegan who’s withdrawn, and rarely solicit my lifestyle, my closest family and friends know my preferences, and so I sit in silence at the dining table when someone preaches how they could never live without meat, the truth is they can’t live a healthy life with it, and neither can the earth.
5
If people ask about it, I just tell them that it eliminated my metabolic syndrome along with 25 pounds so I don't have to take the Metformin and statin drugs that my former doctor prescribed for me. Glucose and cholesterol back to normal with plants. I'll promote the diet with people I care about gently by saying that any distance you go toward a vegan diet will be a benefit you as well as the environment and of course the animals.
6
@geofnb--" it eliminated my metabolic syndrome along with 25 pounds so I don't have to take the Metformin and statin drugs that my former doctor prescribed for me. Glucose and cholesterol back to normal with plants."
That's very interesting, since precisely the *opposite* is true for me. Eating animal protein and non-starchy vegetables but strictly limiting carbohydrates (including legumes) normalizes my blood sugar, decreases my need for Metformin, lowers my cholesterol, and makes the pounds peel off. Eating an all-plants diet makes me gain weight, spikes my blood sugar, and leaves me feeling hungry most of time as well. I think different people's metabolisms just react differently.
1
@me That is interesting. I'm part of a vegan meetup group and have seen people get the same results as I have. That said, one member of our group has not reported any improvement yet. I sounds like your diet is kind of a keto diet that puts you into a state of ketosis which will make you lose weight. People should try and figure out what works best for them. I do think a vegan diet should be the first option to try since there is a great deal of evidence that a lot of chronic 1st world health problems consistently follow a diet heavy in animal protein.
Four years ago my partner and I switched to a plant-based diet after reading "The China Study", the most comprehensive nutritional study ever conducted, by T. Colin Campbell, Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University.
In the first year, I lost 52 lbs, and my partner lost 41. Our blood sugar went from pre-diabetic levels to ideal levels, and has stayed there. Our cholesterol plummeted to levels neither of us has seen since we were in our early 30's, and remain there. My partner's high blood pressure was down to ideal pressure within months. Now in our 60's, we both have cardiac calcium scores of 0. We no longer take any medications, and we feel fantastic and have more energy than we did in our 50's.
For our 40th wedding anniversary, we hiked The Appalachian Trail in 5 months - and yes, the entire journey was plant-powered!
10
Considering that slightly less than one percent of Americans call themselves vegan, and slightly more than three percent call themselves vegetarian, it is striking how few "omnivores" are willing to comment here on this story.
I think it indicates that they know just how vehement the response can be when one expresses a contrary opinion to those expressed by Mister Manjoo and some of the commenters here.
Vegans may indeed face some (in my experience: mild) ribbing at their food choices, but it is nothing compared to the sheer vitriol expressed by some (just a few, fortunately) strident vegans towards those who have made a different choice.
4
I remember back in the 70s in Seattle a friend of mine was a "breatharian". She and her like minded folks were trying to subsist without eating anything. Can't get more pure and moral than that. Vegans are complete reprobates compared to breatharians, but unfortunately, it didn't work.
Vegan's also are Puritans, they obsess about purity. Of course we should eat less meat, and fish and try to minimize our footprint on the natural world. Fried chicken from a fast food place is getting close to an abomination, I agree. We never eat chicken or red meat at home and not much fish either. We're probably 98% vegan, which is to say not vegan at all. To refuse to eat a dish prepared by someone else is an insult and an abomination in itself in our view, and anyone who would consider doing that, which vegans do, deserve to be "ghosted".
5