I'm sorry, I'm with Trump on this one. Get out. Now. I don't care ab9ut the politics. There's no justification for staying even one day longer. None. It's their country and they'll have to settle their own problems. We can't do it for them. Haven't we learned yet? What is it going to take?
13
Natural Distrucation is something that affects people in terrible ways. Either it's houses being destroyed, people being injured, and much more. When something like this happens to you, it can be very hard. Having to say goodbye to your house you've lived and grown in for years. Saying goodbye to old memories, and no longer being able to witness them/have that same feeling ever again. It can really suck. The fact that her, and her family had to go through this was very tough, and can really hurt people and their families. I feel that people should care more about natural disasters. If they were in that same position, you would want someone to reach out and help you. I think that people can be very careless, and not want to share anything they have to those in need. People may be scared because they worked for that money, or how are they going to feed their kids. Imagine if you couldn't go back to your house, job, or your life just because of a natural disaster. People should start to care more about others, and the environment.
Secretary Pompeo, like the president he serves, has neither a sense of honor nor shame. He is ambitious. Period. And this is an Academy grad for Heavens sake.
13
Pompeo knows very well that he’s merely Trump’s stooge & frontman. Whatever he may say or do today may we unsaid or undone tomorrow by his boss. He needn’t resign as he can always blame Trump for undercutting him behind his back.
6
If Mike Pompeo had a sense of honor; he would never be working for or involved in a lunatic asylum called the Trump Administration to begin with. Anything following that renders the question moot. They have no clue how to handle the Afghanistan situation. Or the Israeli/ Palestinian question. Or the Russian meddling with your elections situation. Or the climate change looming catastrophe situation. Or the China trade war situation. Or/ Or/ Or... They are the Catastrophe!
14
I'm curious if Brett Stephens will be writing a column addressing Trump's anti Semitc remarks about dual loyalty of Jewish Americans.
12
Pompeo is, like the rest of the Trump administration, a hypocrite.
9
Having spent time in Afghanistan I can tell you first hand: The country is not okay, and it will not be okay in the foreseeable future. Travel through Kabul and you can see remnants of a once vibrant city. Parks left overgrown, roundabouts with long defunct water features, sidewalks and streets difficult to navigate due to neglect. Insurgents in mountain regions remain, and the government cannot defeat them and can barely provide services to its citizens. In the 60's Afghanistan had its act together, but it is the unfortunate victim of proxy wars for other nations.
Yes, America is fighting the Taliban. But it is also fighting the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, and Saudis, all of whom have a vested interest in using their own network of spies to undermine the US. If it were just the Taliban it would be relatively easy, but that is hardly the case.
The US can claim victory in this war. We went in to exact justice for 9/11, and we did. We tried to build the nation, but we can't. That has to be done by Afghans. When we leave - and we eventually must - the Taliban will remain, and other nations will continue to attempt to exert control over the country. It is too geo-strategically important for other powers in the region to ignore. So we have to ask ourselves: What is the ultimate goal? Because if it is "defeat the Taliban," it won't happen without fighting other countries. But if it was to show our resolve after 9/11, we did it. Time to come home.
8
I didn't manage to get thru the whole piece.
Having said that, I thought the way to handle Afghanistan in 2001 was to attack, punish, and, on the way out, warn that failure to control anti-American forces on the territory of Afghanistan would result in a second, harder attack.
This was met with derision because it was thought that the sacrifice of American blood absolutely required that we succeed and any belief in the contrary was un-American and an error in not understanding America "exceptionalism".
To my mind, a first attack, followed by a second, would have set doubts in the mind of the Afghani population as to the veracity of Taliban claims. (Not to mention a 3rd or 4th US attack on Afghanistan).
So, we stayed. And stayed and stayed and stayed til we left.
The Taliban said we had the watch and they had the time. Now they can proudly tell their people they were right. Congratulations, hawks, you did it. You won elections and lost the war.
4
The war in Afghanistan was lost 15 years ago when GWB pulled the crack troops out to invade Iraq and the amount of territory controlled by Kabul government continues to shrink, so what is the matter with finally admitting that we have lost--this isn't the first time we have given up when we could see no way forward in an interminable war and we have recovered from that, except for the 55,000 Americans who died for a bad idea
84
Let’s stipulate that any column that begins, “If (insert name of Trump administration official) has a sense of honor” has gone past merely hypothetical to sheer fantasy.
7
Basically, Pompeo is trusting the Taliban - which would be idiotic if he were actually trusting them. But of course he isn't trusting them, he is pretending to trust them so he can throw the Afghan government and the rest of the Afghanis under the bus. We went to war in Afghanistan for very good reasons that almost the whole country agreed on. Whether it was well executed after the initial victories is another question that I am not qualified to judge. Iraq became a huge distraction from Afghanistan. As Mr. Stephens and other commenters say, the reasons we went to war have not gone away, and the impact of the war on the United States is not large now. The impact of the consequences of withdrawal will be large. And that does not include the consequences for the Afghanis, just the consequences for *us* of giving the global jihad a victory and a base that we don't have to give them. This is not Vietnam in the '70s, which could be expected to mind its own business once left. The Taliban and their friends will not mind their own business. But honor, truth, a respect for physical reality and a concern for allies are not characteristics of the Trump Administration.
4
And let's stop calling him "Mike". He's not our friend.
9
Hypocrisy? I would call it hyperidiocy.
5
Let’s stay another 20 years so people—perhaps even Mr. Stephens—won’t say bad things about us, at least in our own media.
5
Kansas? Senate? He’s perfect!
5
I sometimes wonder, is Pompeo the lowest of the low, in terms of people who have shown to be morally bankrupt and hollow in every sense of the word and have served the trump administration ?
9
Pompeo as Secretary of Hypocrisy? Can we at least have a vote or maybe a NCAA Basketball Tournament-like bracket? Sooo many candidates. How about Mitch McConnell's strongly held values about the judiciary? Or Rep. Medows and Rep. Jordan's immovable beliefs about the deficit or using only secure, government provided communication devices in order to maintain a public record? I mean Rick Perry was appointed to head a Department he wanted to eliminate as a candidate. I'm not sure Pompeo would finish in the Elite Eight. Hypocrisy seems to be a prerequisite to the Trump Administration.
10
What was or is being taught at the military academies and in the politics of American life obviously does not work when confronting people we simply don't understand. We have to think outside the box, perhaps far outside. The Taliban and most terror groups have been fighting a very long time. They don't work, farm or do anything we might consider "normal" to run a government, every day life or a culture. Where does their food, water, fuel, arms and ammo come from? Why haven't the brilliant minds at the Pentagon and Capitol figured this out and how to stop it. If we don't, the women and children will be victimized now and forever.
76
This is not the first time Afghans have promised safe passage to a retreating invader. Ask the British how that turned out?
It will be interesting to see how uber hawk Lindsey Graham will respond to this. If he were true to his past principles he would fight this. But who knows, he is a Trumper now and may remain silent.
4
US involvement in Afghanistan should have been no more than a two-week special forces campaign hunting the leaders of Al Qaeda there. "Taliban" is a label pinned to any Afghan man who takes up arms against the US occupying force - as men have taken up arms against occupying forces since forever. The whole "war" has just been a giant exercise in transferring funds from the US treasury into privileged private hands. I fail to believe that the US government could not have decided to control everything that went in - weapons in particular - and out - such as opium - of the country instead. "War" was much more profitable for some. Please spare me your concern about Afghani women, considering how little you care for those in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere in the Islamic world, allied to the US.
9
Pompeo and his ilk only oppose a Cut & Run strategy when a Democrat is President. We abandoned the South Vietnamese, we abandoned the Kurds, we abandoned the Iraqis. Sooner or later we'll abandon Syria and Afghanistan. It's what we always do. What gets lost in all the hand-wringing is the larger question of why we went to war in the first place.
150
No-one who works for Trump has a sense of honor, duh.
11
Dear Bret,
And this surprises you?
2
We can not win, so the only reason to stay is to avoid the loss of face that our withdrawal will cause. That is not a reason to stay.
Our endless slow-burning conflicts are a disgrace. We never understand that, when we invade another country and prosecute a war there, the enemy can never surrender because he has nowhere else to go.
7
Anyone surprised by Mr. Pompeo’s actions in this evolving catastrophe simply haven’t been paying attention to the transition of the GOP to a cult of personality in the worst traditions of foreign despots of the 20th century (Pinochet from the Right and Stalin from the Left come immediately to mind). Although Mr. Pompeo graduated from the USMA at West Point, as did my father and oldest brother, he has either forgotten or more likely set aside the mission in the service of more venal needs. Duty, Honor, Country used to mean something.
These are not the only despoiled national principles in the rise of Trumpism; they are among those I will miss the most.
7
Stupid article, really. Pompeo is trying to get the US out of chronic war zone and Bret Stephens wants to cry about Trump again. We can't even get sane news from the New York Times because of their infatuation with anything Trump.
Yes, we get it, the paper is biased, but beyond that, can we ask that the paper focus on something else for one freaking second.
5
Re: "...If Pompeo has a sense of honor, he might consider resigning rather than fathering the catastrophe that may soon befall Afghanistan.
Is this that same 'Sec.State Pompeo' who, (allegedly), believes ALL Jews who DON'T, eventually, convert to evangelical Christianity are facing eternal damnation from Pompeo's Xian_Deity??
...Just, wonderin'!!
8
Unless the US acts brutally, like the Germans and Japanese did and the Russians and Chinese would, we can never accomplish the goals of these foreign endeavors. The big question, who is supporting and helping the Taliban run riot over those who we support let alone our troops and the Billions we have spent trying to bring peace to this reason. Unless we are willing to cut the head off of the source, which we are not, we might as well forget it.
3
Bush II, after pointedly ignoring multiple warnings of impending attacks by bin Laden, quickly moved to make people forget his blunder by becoming a war president, instead of war evader, by sending our magnificent special forces into Afghanistan. They bribed the Northern Alliance to join in to share the loot, and almost immediately won the field.
Bush's consiglieri Cheney knew they needed to keep a war going for re-election, and Iraq's WMD were invented and foisted on the nation. That caused the US to virtually abandon Afghanistan while we were busy wrecking nearly the entire Middle East. We got duped. Bush-Cheney got four more years. Afghanistan once again will be betrayed to the murderous Taliban. And Commander Bone Spurs will crow about his peace making ability even as the Taliban begins its massacres of any decent human beings left in that benighted theocracy.
6
Secretary Pompeo is a seasoned soldier and West Point graduate who knows of what he says regards military operations. Obama the amateur, took bad advice and increased the USA troop presence exponentially against cooler heads advice , like V.P. Biden, not to do so. Thus committing our lackluster volunteer infantry to battle and the casualties increased without much to show for it. Biden wanted small, elite special forces units to seek out and destroy the insurgents as is being done now with very few friendly casualties resulting. Still, only low level Taliban, and a lot of innocents deaths, has been the result. A couple thousand USA dead and a trillion dollars or so spent for essentially nothing much. Past time to declare a Vietnam/Iraq style victory and get hat!
22
@Moe
Yes, let's repeat the mistakes of Vietnam and "get hat!"
18
I seldomly agree with anything that Mr. Stephans says but I strongly agree with this. I am sure the vast majority of comments below are going to be from Trump's critics who approve of any possible attack upon his appaling Secretary of State but will repeat that war is "Bad , really Bad" and agree that we need to withdraw and concern ourselves with problems at home. Heck, if we spent this money on healthcare we could pay for 30 new hospitals. I wonder whether this knee jerk response recognizes that it is indistinguishable from Trump's, and Lindburgh's "America First" isolationism. I recall what it was like to see womens bodies hanging from streetlights and soccar fields turned into execution grounds. Where do you think that Margaret Atwood got her images of the violence of women wanting to be free from? Itwill all happen again, and when it does we can feel sick for the hypocracy of Pompeo and Trump, but lets not forget that it was echoed by all the Democratic candidates. Most of all maybe we ought to look at ourselves in the mirror.
33
Think before you act.
9/11 was a ignoble event. but invading Afghanistan in order to "Get Ben Laden " was not really productive, even though we did get him;
But the price we paid, not only in american lives or money, is that we are no longer credible, and even the hawk Pompeo has to accepr that fact;
We cannot drain the sea with a spoon, even if a friend has drown there.
We may nuke the sea, but we cannot make it disapear
Pride is one thing. But hitting your head against a wall is just stupid; And so is charging like the light brigade, which is what we did in Afgahanistan.
Now even I, the smartest man after Trump, do not know how we can extricate ourselves with some Honor from this mess.
But Trump will surely find a way. For exemple,"Well we will see what happens" "would be immensly productive
2
The war in Afghanistan never had a real exit strategy. This was 2001 when Bush & Cheney had rosey visions of democracy flowering in the Middle East.
I'm all for getting out, but the Taliban will never abide by any peace agreement. After the U.S. leaves they will topple the govt., round up and execute every Afghan they can find who cooperated with the Americans. For humanitarian reasons, those most vulnerable should be evacuated before pulling out.
5
That smirk, Pompeo has, gets me all the time! The Gutter Has Come To Power!
6
A sense of honor? PLEASE! There is no honor in this administration, just as there is little in the GOP. There are unlimited hurbris; white, male supremacy greed; power; an a line of non-thinking beings who play 'follow the leader. But honor? Don't make me gag.
7
Asked and answered. The Secretary of Sycophants has no honor.
3
Mike Pompeo, his whole career has been about naked ambition. This is a man who will do anything Trump asks him to do. He tries to hide behind the scenes, but when events flush him out he can't hide his bared teeth as Trump's spear carrier.
4
Mike Pence, less sappy, more khaki.
It is ridiculous. We intervened in a country with no real government and which is controlled by various warlords, who should be allowed to fight it out without our stupid intervention. We have done nothing but pointlessly burn lives and treasure in this godforsaken place. We need to cut our losses. Obama was right.
5
The exit strategy — we will withdraw if you don’t shoot at us on the way out or slam the door too hard — somehow brings back
Memories of the helicopters scurrying out of Saigon the day or so before the Viet Cong arrived.
As President None Spurs bought his way out of service on that war, he no doubt doesn’t care one hoot now about the Afghan people. Apparently neither does Pompeo.
4
Good column....and it speaks directly to the incompetence and outright hubris of this administration.
There are, in my mind, parallels to the disaster that was Vietnam: half a world away, many Americans would not be able to find it on a map, extremely costly in blood and treasure, and basically unwinnable. (Iraq was another example of failed nation building, easy in--hard out.)
We, as a nation, are in dark times with even darker days are ahead...45 called it in his inauguration speech..."American Carnage": to our standing in the world, the sanctity of our election systems, bringing to the surface all the worst in our collective character of racism, white nationalism, xenophobia, and a total disrespect of our Constitution.
45
Would anyone expect anything different from Pompeo? He and the other "hawks" (John Bolton) are all too happy to get the US in another conflict that will have their signature.
4
Whatever agreement is made, as soon as the last American plane lifts off the runway in Afghanistan, the Taliban will be using the document for toilet paper. They know the Americans, like the Russians before them, aren't coming back. No matter what.
George W. Bush, (remember him?) led us to invade Afghanistan to get Bin Laden and destroy the Taliban in retaliation for harboring al Qaeda. Almost two decades, and two presidents, later we are negotiating to turn the country over to....the Taliban!
Having defeated, yes, defeated, the Great Satan, the Taliban will be stronger and more powerful in the world than ever. And the US will not be one iota safer.
Good job.
4
Pompeo's very first act when he was appointed head of the CIA before his present position was to come out and tell a total lie to the American people, saying that the intelligence agencies had completely exonerated Trump. He looked us all in the eye on a televised interview and said that . Yet mainstream media keeps hawking the idea that somehow there is some honor in this man. There's not. He may be better than some in the administration but that is a very very low bar. He is a liar and not to be trusted like the rest of them.
7
I can see this guy doing a "Albert Speer", when Trump looses reelection in 2020, but the World is taking names, and his together with Stephen Miller and Tom Cotton to name a few, will not be forgotten!
9
Why our Congress continues to ramp up military budgets, while we continue to lose conflicts ever since WWII is amazing. It's just a business model and degrades our standing in world.
4
I think Pompeo knows that it probably doesn't matter to Trump what kind of deal is made because Trump can just renege on it pretty much like everything he has done.
3
Good points but where's your road to victory?
They can't count on us to rescue them from civil wars? A benefit, some thought just our advocating democracy means we'd support their revolution, now they know better.
3
I think we should get out. But I think we should also transport all of our Afghanistan allies, plus every Afghanistan woman who wishes to leave--however many women that may be--to the US and grant them American citizenship. We broke it, we should buy it.
I don't want to see Afghanis clawing at departing helicopters this time, as we saw in Vietnam--do you?
9
One should not forget that the only reason we went into Afghanistan was because the Taliban which was not involved in 9/11 refused to give up Osama bin Laden.
There were plenty of other ways to get bin Laden, for example, like we finally did. Thanks, Obama.
We were giving the Taliban money for cutting opium production, or George Bush did way before 9/11.
5
I'd agree with Mr. Stephens were it not for one small issue: our presence in Afghanistan over the past five years or so has largely revolved around the training of that nation's military. That training actually began shortly after our invasion in 2002 put an end to the Taliban regime. So how much longer is it going to take to train Afghan forces to fully take over the fight? Another ten years? Another thirty? Considering the ease with which the Taliban continues to retake Afghan towns, cities and rural areas, it may just be fitting for the U.S. to wrap things up by making the best deal with the insurgents that we possibly can. If the Afghans just don't have the will to fight we shouldn't be asked to do the job for them.
2
Thanks for this, Brett. As a liberal, I do wish to end the forever wars, but I do not pretend to have the expertise to know how to do so. But I do know that I do not trust the imoral bunglers in the Trump administration to do the job, and you have made it abundantly clear that this should be an issue that liberals and actual conservatives can agree on.
9
The USA has a burden to bear in Afghanistan. Agreeing to withdraw American and other allied forces from the country should only happen when all the Afghan citizens fearing for their life are provided the opportunity and means to leave Afghanistan, including to the USA. We owe them that. Stephen Miller can be told to go pound sand. Once we are out of Afghanistan we need to address the War Powers Act and tightly restrict the ability of the Executive Branch to wage war without Congressional authority. How many misadventures must we endure to understand that we cannot and should not police the globe.
6
Maybe the $ saved could help Trump purchase Greenland? Foreign policy? What foreign policy.
All the while on his way to his latest helicopter ride ,Trump threatens our allies with releasing thousands of US held Isis and Al Qaeda hostiles on the streets of their countries in Europe if they refuse to take them. Who needs enemies with friends like that?
10
The greatest sign of weakness to the radical Islamists would be to leave with a piece of paper worth as much as when England's Chamberlain returned with the same kind of promise given by Hitler. He would not start a war or try to take over any more territory. Hitler laughed and prepared for war. If Britain and France stood firm against Hitler years earlier, there would not have been 54 million people who died in that terrible war. The Taliban will kill their opponents and take away any liberty the Afghans enjoy now. Girls will be treated again like chattel and no longer educated. We gave them hope once but if we leave, despair and many, many deaths will happen. Our hands will have blood on them. Keeping such a small USA force is not that costly. Iran, Russia, Assad, and the Terrorists will rejoice. All of which will just lay the groundwork for a more costly military conflict. History teaches and woe to those who don't learn from it.
3
Though a hawk, Pompeno is following Trump's neo-isolationist foreign policy, If he didn't, he wouldn't have lasted any longer than Secretary Tillerson or Mattis. As a recent article in the Times reported, Trump's unconcern with other countries has permitted quarrels between South Korea and Japan and India and Pakistan to fester. These countries are friends of the United States.
Dean Acheson's great memoir of his years at the State Department was call "Present at the Creation." It was about the Marshall Plan, the formation of NATO, the UN, and other organizations that created international order out of the ashes of World War II. Pompeo's memoir, if he should write one, would be aptly called "Present at the Destruction.
5
Pompeo? Honor? Yeesh. We know that pathway doesn’t exist.
4
Anyone remember the retreat from Kabul in 1842? Assurances were given then, too. Out of 16,000 one survived.
2
Every votes in the 2020 elections will count.
Therefore pull out of Afghanistan, claim American lives were saved and show no concern about the mess left for others to sort out… if possible.
Most likely it will not be possible : conflicts in the Middle East and Asia are religion wars thus Talibans and other terrorists groups are only pawns in the hands of those who want to impose their vision of the world to their enemies, shiites or sunnites and of course the great "infidel" western powers…
Terrorism remains a major security threat… the more so today.
All great points. The missing point is how to resolve the situation after almost 18 years of American presence in Afghanistan. Since no one expects the Taliban or ISIS or Al Quaeda to lay down their arms and goals after the US leaves then we need to stay for another 50 years as we have done in the EU, Korea and Japan. Otherwise, partition the country between Iran, Pakistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. It seems as constituted Afghanistan cannot be the peaceful, Democratic human rights respecting country that the US desires. What was it before the British created it anyway?
"But a hawk might also note that the U.S. endured just 14 fatalities in Afghanistan in 2018"
From our comfortable American homes, it's so easy to say 14 dead Americans is not a big deal.
Just 14 young Americans dead for a never-ending war. That's 14 Americans who would still be alive today if we got out of there a long time ago.
This reminds me of the never-ending Vietnam war. They all died for nothing.
6
To quote an article in the New Yorker written by Susan Glasser about Pompeo the Secretary of Trump:
"Pompeo, an evangelical Christian who keeps an open Bible on his desk, now says it’s possible that God raised up Trump as a modern Queen Esther, the Biblical figure who convinced the King of Persia to spare the Jewish people. He defines his own job as serving the President, whatever the President asks of him. “A Secretary of State has to know what the President wants,” he said at a recent Washington DC appearance."
Even though before Trump's Republican nomination for President while supporting Marco Rubio, Pompeo publically stated the "Trump would be “an authoritarian President who ignored our Constitution.....and risk American soldiers lives.” Pompeo is a Trump lackey belying his West Point belief system in carrying out Trump's haphazard foreign policy agenda. Instead of a military man with a bible running the State Department we need specialists in diplomacy who are able to clearly and forcefully contradict the Executive Branch when needed. Otherwise, Trump will declare victory like when he declared North Korea was no longer a nuclear threat because "he and Kim Jong-Un got along Kim liked his real estate deal ideas for North Korea and they sent each other Valentine's cards.
8
"Then again, progressives have been pining for an Afghan exit for at least a decade, and Barack Obama set a timetable for full withdrawal (which he was later forced to reverse in the face of Taliban gains) in 2014. Foreign-policy hawks in the mold of Pompeo used to take a different view about the wisdom of U.S. retreat — at least before they became Donald Trump flunkies."
Bret, the hawks to which you refer made a royal mess of both the Afghanistan intervention and the idiotic invasion of Iraq, even before Trump rode down his escalator. Progressive were left to clean up the mess, as always.
I don't trust Mike Pompeo's motives or abilities to negotiate the best exit for U.S. involvement in Afghanistan, but it may be an exit, and a lesson for future American governments to find better methods of influencing world opinion.
As for Bret Stephens, I will gladly accept his aid in
ridding the world of the menace of Trump, but when that menace is finally neutered, I will not forget his and the Republican party's part in fostering its appearance. Politics may make strange bedfellows, but it doesn't make them lovers.
4
the US has no business being in Afghanistan in 2019.
3
What a difficult situation. The Afghan govt. probably won't last a year once we go. Those who helped us, fought along side our service members, and generally tried to do good things (like educating women) will probably suffer and die in large numbers. Our credibility as an ally will be further eroded. Terrorists will be emboldened and have new havens. But, what is the alternative? We could commit enough forces (200,000? 500,000?) to win "big" but there aren't enough said forces at the ready and no will to do that so what is the alternative?
3
Note the innumeracy:
Stephens claims that "a U.S. service member is far more likely to die in a training accident than in combat" but for evidence of this claim he links to a CNN article stating "more US troops die during training than in combat operations".
OF COURSE more troops die during training than in combat, because there are more troops in training than there are in combat.
If you want numbers, they're easy to find. From the CNN article "73% of these casualties occurred under circumstances unrelated to war".
From Wikipedia: number of US troops: 1,347,106.
From Stephen's own essay: number of US troops in Afghanistan: 14,000. (Almost exactly 1% of total troops.)
From these data you can easily calculate that a US service member is 37 times more likely to die in combat than in a training accident.
7
The minute the US pulls out, there will be a bloodbath in Afghanistan. Thinking our withdrawal will promote his reelection, Trump and Pompeo will wash their hands and walk away.
8
Just remember Nixon 's recording of a conversation on the phone with Henry Kissinger in 1971 (the words may slightly differ) : The South Vietnamese army can't win by itself but let's pray that nothing happen before 1972 (his reelection). I'd prefer that they manage and we move out.The important for my reelection is to get rid of the problem". Meaning that the different operations in Cambodia and Laos and the "vietnamisation of the war" appear as successful -which of course they weren't- allowing the withdrawal of the American troops.
These brilliant operations were announced on TV by Nixon himself shortly after.
What would'nt an immoral politician do to secure a future ?
A few more thousand deaths is just an abstract number after all. Nixon, Trump, Pompeo, same fight.
3
So Mr. Stephens, what is your end game? Care to share that with us? Just keep doing what we are doing now in the hopes that it will start to work at some distant point in the future?
1
The US invaded Afghanistan and found itself in a war that it has no hope of winning.
There are only two options. The first one is to stay and fight a losing war in Afghanistan for the next century or two. Who knows, this war might even last a thousand years. The second option is to declare victory and pull out, then shrug when the Afghan govt falls to the Taliban, as it inevitably will.
The second option is what brought the Vietnam war to an end. Americans would still be fighting and dying in Vietnam if America did not have the good sense to admit defeat and pull out.
When fighting wars, you win some and you lose some. The rational nation accepts when it has lost and knows when to cut its losses. The irrational nation refuses to accept defeat and continues to pour money and lives into a black hole, weakening itself, for no good reason.
Surrender your ego and embrace your common sense. Stop wasting the lives of your soldiers and the money of your taxpayers.
3
The problem with your logic is that after we left Vietnam, the Vietnamese didn’t go on to be one of the sponsors and refuge of various terrorist organizations. Do you really believe the taliban will also be so restrained? And if not, what do we do then?
3
@Katnath
If the Taliban again allow their territory to be used by terrorists to plan attacks against the US, the US should respond appropriately.
Sanctions, cruise missiles and the occasional B52s dropping bombs on the Afghan presidential palace should be enough to convince the Taliban to focus on their own country and leave the US alone.
The main problem with the American response after the 9/11 attack was the mass hysteria that swept across your nation, leaving your leaders incapable of rational thought and leading your nation to shoot itself in the foot.
9/11 was planned by a small terrorist organization and carried out by 19 men. You lost nearly three thousand lives, the WTC complex and four aircraft.
In response you invaded and occupied two entire countries, one of which had absolutely nothing to do with the attack on your nation.
You have lost nearly 5000 of your soldiers in Iraq so far. The war has also resulted in tens of thousands of Iraqi military casualties and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths. The war is not over yet, and so far you have managed to both hand over the Iraqi govt to the Iranians and create the conditions for the birth of ISIS.
Meanwhile, in Afghanistan, you have managed to get over 2400 of your soldiers killed and tens of thousands wounded. The cost paid by the Afghan people is of course much higher.
In short, the American response to 9/11 is directly responsible for many more American deaths than the 9/11 attack itself.
2
Can you really expect Pompeo, Trump's tool, to have a sense of honor? If he resigns, it will be to run for the Senate, or at least, that will be the cover story.
5
It was fun, for a while, just after Trump's inauguration, to think what would the Republicans do if Obama had done what Trump had done.
Shortly after that, it stopped being fun.
It became apparent that the Republicans, who dog-whistled their way through two of Obama's terms, had unleashed the permanent underclass of bigots and psychopaths and adopted them as their constituents.
Obama listened to his advisors and Republican critics like Pompeo and reversed some of his less than best policies. Now there is no one in the Whitehouse or the Senate who can steer Trump toward sanity. They are afraid of all the dogs, who only listen to one handler now, and of saying the wrong thing to the head of the pack.
It reminds me of an old Twilight Zone episode in which cute little Billy Mumy terrorizes his neighborhood by wishing them away or turning them into toys.
Nothing's much fun in the post-Obama world.
6
@Joe Kernan Well said. Don't forget it was Stephens and company who held McConnell and the rest of the hypocrites' coats and cheered them on because they were terrified their taxes might go up a percent.
6
America's Misogyist political party isn't interested in the needs of 18 million Afgani women. They are interested in chalking up a short term "win" for their "look over here" Misogyist President now that he can't run on his economic stewardship of the economy.
The upcoming 2020 Recession is the recession that the Red zones, who can't tell fact from fiction, desperately need. Maybe it will jolt them out of their moronic rote voting patterns and bring them up to speed.
The Blue zones can wait it out to vote them out.
4
It never ceases to amaze how some conservative pundits are always ready to fight to the last drop of someone else's blood. Stephens, who never served his country in any way, never says what his grand plan is. We have been there for 18 years. When does it end?
5
How can we continue to remain in afghanistan to protect their government. This no different than remaining in Vietnam to protect their government. We cannot continue to protect a nation’s nationalism indefinitely.
2
If it's true that Afghanistan is nothing more than a sinkhole and that the so-called superpowers can't even get a foothold there, isn't it time to just get the heck out and be done with it? Can't we just isolate terrorists the best we can, and defend ourselves against them the best we can, understanding that in today's world there is no foolproof method by which we can guarantee zero risk? Why do we have to keep pouring good people and all that money down the drain?
3
We pour good money down the drain because a lot of executives in the armaments industry profit from it.
3
Of course Pompeo has no honor. He was a flunky for the Koch brothers in Congress and for Trump in the cabinet.
6
I'm a lowly millennial, but this seems like a Saigon waiting to happen. The administration will declare victory, the Afghanis will be left to pick up the pieces.
2
Evangelicals rejoice, the chosen one is here, the end times upon us.
3
Awe-inspiring hypocrisy and lack of shame? Look under “conservative DNA” in the dictionary.
3
So Pompeo is two faced. Tell me something I didn't know. He was only against the black guy. Trump walks on water according to Pompeo. Disturbing.
4
As per a great Star Trek theme....
Afghanistan is America's "Kobyashi Maru". There is no win, only a choice of failures... followed by death and destruction.
Pompeo is simply another bit player in the crew of toady's that surround Donald Trump.
1
Like most of the lackies in Trump's cabinet, he has no sense of honor or shame at all. Like most republicans he is a hypocrite.
4
Aside from tax cuts what policy did Republicans support before Trump that they accept now? The deficit? Easy money? International chaos? Trade? Law and order? Checks and balances and the authority of the Executive? Bret Stephens gives his approval to all else but the stupidity evolving in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria. Any thoughts about incitement to racial hatred and white terrorism or even the “second coming...the chosen one....the King of the Jews” lunacy. Sure, the Pompeo subservience is outrageous...no it’s common, ordinary. Look at Lindsey Graham, McConnell the entire Republican pantheon of cowardice and ask America to be outraged. Has Bret and those other not so Republican but still “both sides” Republicans forgotten the drowned baby and her father on the shore of the Rio Grande? Or the children draped in survival blankets caged like dogs(the ASPCA would never allow this to dogs)? Shocked about Pompeo?
Americans are not shocked by Pompeo’s flip. They are worried that the President is truly insane. Americans know that “the chosen one’ is a meme for psychopaths. Somehow this has escaped the attention of the NYT. Perhaps entertaining the mental gymnastics of those who contort logic and videotape to explain that Trump is not an anti-Semite (as Maggie Haberman did on CNN) despite calling Jews who vote Democratic “disloyal” and calling himself the chosen one. Most Jews vote for Democrats and most Jews remember that all racism is anti-Semitic. Trump is loyal to one person.
1
What? No article about Trump's anti Semitic late remarks? I guess doubting Jewish loyalty is only anti-Semitism when expressed by progressives, but not by conservatives.
2
Mike Pompeo believes in the indescribably stupid, ludicrous, and ridiculous idea of the Rapture. Whether he has a sense of honor or shame is the least of his disqualifying characteristics.
3
Article typed in Mr. Stephen's cushy little office an ocean away from the catastrophe that was, and still is, the Mideast. All of the U.S's making. What courage!!!
The Times should change it's slogan to "All the War News That's Fit to Print."
Once again the Times' pet Republican blames Obama and the Democratic Party for one of the several disasters directly attributable to Bush and Cheney. Elsewhere in this issue is an article on Western Journalism and the evils of fabricating articles and posts. Have you no shame?
3
The solution is an international force including Russia to keep the terrible Taliban in check
I once went to his Twitter page to view his idiotic rants. He's as bad as Trump. I came upon one where he was making fun of the weight of the judge in NY presiding over the Trump Charity Fraud case.
He's a real piece of work. I can't believe we have these dolts in office. They are so incompetent, it's just astonishing - no sense of decency, no sense of maturity, no sense of competency, and no sense of shame.
8
The Taliban has promised to put women in their place, that’s all Trump and the GOP needed to hear.
7
Mike Pompeo was never qualified to be Secretary of State.
In fact, he is more pompous than military. West Point needs to review it's graduation standards.
And his religious beliefs seem to always get in the way of reasoned decision making.
He has been arrogant to the Over-Sight committees, and not once reduced the tensions in the World.
Mike Pompeo is a fraud.
8
Nothing new.
Declare victory and go home, leaving the suckers who worked in our behalf to be killed.
Hypocrisy? It's a feature of the Trump Administration, not a bug...as is trolling America's allies and blowing kisses to America's foes.
1
If Pompeo had a sense of honor he wouldn't take a job with the moronic grifter. But he doesn't.
5
Pompeo is just as big a hypocrite as his boss, with as few morals. Expecting anything sensible or good from either of them is howling at the moon.
2
I have two words for you "Judith Miller". You, NYTimes, have since apologized for backing W's Iraq war. And now your columnist is upset because President Trump wants to end "endless wars"? If we wait for everything to be perfect, we could be in Afghanistan yet another generation. Are you sending your children to fight there?
Another liberal, LBJ, wanted to send me to Vietnam back when I was 18. I could not vote, I could not legally drink alcohol, but I was the best in my rifle class in ROTC. I'm now much more for peace.
Another hypocritical puppet from an ineffective occupant of the White House.
They are doing no favors to the United States.
2
Bret, must you be needlessly offensive? Of course Pompeo and the Trumpies are dishonest and heartless. Attack them, not "progressives" (you don't know what that means, anyway) with snideness like "progressives have been pining for an Afghan exit for at least a decade". Would you like an actual progressive viewpoint (not the only one)? Here it is:
We had no business there in the first place. Even if one grants the attack on the Al Qaeda base, we had no business getting involved in Afghanistan generally. In fact, if you can remember that far back, we had no business arming and training the disorganized and vicious forces that destroyed the pro-Soviet government back in the 80's and led directly to the Taliban. We had no business there, and we destroyed what effective government there was, just as we did later in Iraq. And it was all done by Republicans (that's my factual snide remark back at your factless one).
3
All duly noted. But what, exactly, is our reason for having troops in Afghanistan for 18 years? What strategic or short-term goals are we trying to accomplish? Why is this particular country worth the deaths of American soldiers? I hear no answers to these and other questions in this column. We need a good, phased withdrawal plan, but we need to get out.
3
"That “puppet” government is, for all of its well-known flaws, internationally recognized and democratically elected. It does not wantonly massacre its own people, or wage war on its neighbors, or sponsor terrorist groups that seek to wage war on the West."
None of that is true.
The election was a farce and a sham.
The international recognition is courtesy to the US, not recognition of any effective power to govern. It has no effective power to govern.
Yes, its local forces routinely massacre locals. They are murderous paramilitaries. The local police check points are doing robbery, as bribes to pass.
It does war on its neighbors. It wars on Pakistan, though the US flies most of the attacks out of Afghanistan because it is the real power there. It also allows the US free access to attack Iran, with regular drone flights and support for insurgents.
It also runs a vast drug trade, much of it into Iran and Russia. The CIA is said to be part of that, as it was in SE Asia before, but even if it is not, there is no doubt the trade is going on at levels setting new records every year. The Taliban by contrast had closed down much of the drug trade, as un-Islamic.
There is no reason to think terror groups would use Afghanistan as a base now, when they have better bases courtesy of the ongoing US expansion of wars.
These are just excuses to stay.
4
Bret Stephens is like a perfect neocon preserved in amber. Without him we might forget that these are the people who got us into the Iraq war, the neocon motives for which were to reshape the Middle East in a way favorable to the US, and also Israel. Well it did reshape the Middle East-- into deadly chaos. If there was any argument for voting for Trump in 2016, it was that he rejected all that (of course now we know that didn't mean anything). If there are reasons to call Pompeo the Secretary of Hypocrisy, one is for his coziness with the murderous Saudi prince. But for wanting to get out of Afghanistan? There Pompeo is on the right track. Holding rigid views that have led to deaths and displacement of millions is a better reason for resigning.
2
Just as an aside, Bret, didn’t Obama simply comply with the SOFA agreement sponsored and signed by George Bush regarding the exit from Iraq?
Either I’m incorrect (not unlikely) or Obama has taken lots of misplaced blame for compliance with an established international agreement.
Although I’ve come to realize that republicans seem to think mutually agreed upon international agreements are to be used as TP.
5
Nice to see Mr. Stephens take a popular position after advocating for more nuclear weapons last week.
1
If Pompeo has a sense of honor? So that's like "if Stephen Miller had a heart"?
6
Here’s another hypocrisy parallel to the “vague assurance from them that Afghanistan will not again become a base for global terrorism (and) ... no explicit requirement for the Taliban to renounce its ties to Al Qaeda”: the constant refrain by the Trump administration and Pompey in particular that the Palestinian leadership explicitly renounce all hostility to Israel and acknowledge Israel’s right to exist as a precondition to negotiations.
I agree 100% with the central premise of this piece: That Mike Pompeo has neither shame nor honor.
4
This is almost exactly the same as the Viet Nam War's Peace with Honor. We're tired of being there. There's no way to win. Let's slap a victory label on it and go home.
But one thing I haven't seen mentioned: will this be a new caliphate for ISIS?
2
If Mike Pompeo had any honor he would never have joined the Trump administration.
The United States is now in league with Russia, North Korea and the Taliban and in opposition to our traditional allies. Mike Pompeo and John Bolton are exactly the kind of cowards that helped make this tragedy.
4
America is not the world police and Afghanistan is basically Vietnam at this point...we couldn't and can't prop up a corrupt unpopular regime forever.
Give the translators and others who helped American troops a chance to immigrate and call it a loss; bring the troops home.
Its worse there now than when we started and just not worth the money and blood put to keep our toehold there. Its a terrorist hotbed even with troops there now.
Are you kidding? Pompeo's expecting to share a Nobel Prize, a la Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho. Sure, Vietnam soon went down the tubes, but that was just spilt milk.
However, Pompeo should bail as soon as the ink is dry on the agreement. Can you imagine Donald Trump's wrath when Pompeo goes to Oslo and he himself does not?
Tweetstorm? Try hurricane.
1
Afghanistan was a disaster for the Russians in the 1980's/90's. What was to cause any thinking person it would be any different for the US? 17 of the 19 terrorists from 9/11/2001 were from Saudi Arabia, as was Osama Bin Laden. So why was it we invaded Afghanistan again? Or Iraq for that matter? Oh that's right, the non-existent yellow cake uranium and WMD's.
1
Pompeo resign? Clearly he is an outsized opportunist who will only abandon the U.S.S. Trump tramp steamer when he is assured that it is unequivocally sinking. He was an insignificant, largely unknown, Freedom Caucus House backbencher from a similarly insignificant state before latching onto this Administration and the attendant chances it provided him for widespread media exposure and public prominence. The pompous Pompeo, he of the off putting, sarcastic, fixed facial smirk, envisions himself as a rightful successor to his current boss. Heaven help us! West Point should be ashamed of this obsequious, compromised alumnus who chose to work for an amoral, draft-dodger to advance a personal agenda.
4
Correction: Pompeo was a Tea Partier.
The people that started it...beginning 9/11 were Saudi nationals. While the Taliban, et al. were in Afghanistan and vocal supporters, the money came from Saudis.
5
ISIS is already licking their chops.
You can read about Pompeo in the newly released blockbuster,
"Kochland" by Christopher Leonard.
Pompeo subscribes to the Koch philosophy and was promoted by them.
A great read. The Koch machine also backs Pence...not because they are religious, but because they seek candidates who are true believers of their "no taxes, no regulations" playbook.
2
I abhor Trump but about the only thing he's got right since he's been elected is negotiating to get the US out of Afghanistan. This article is yet another atrocious example of specious reasoning coming from the hypocrite, Stephens. 18 years after 9/11 the US has failed to achieve anything of note in Afghanistan.. and it never will. The Taliban were not related to, and did not support al Qaeda at any time. They are like cats and dogs. Worse, the US plonked itself down in what was essentially a civil war (to which the Taliban will be the probable victors) and called it, at first, counter terrorism and then counter-insurgency. It's neither.. the framing has been all wrong from the outset. More to the point, the Taliban never were and never will be international terrorists.. they are of the soil and have local interests only. Any attempt to link them to al Qaeda is simply based on fiction... and I would love to see evidence to the contrary. Finally, the US has no useful function to play in Afghanistan .. it has lost another war. Time to move on and suck up the trillions wasted. In short the US's militarisation of its response to 9/11 has led to the worst kind of defeat.. self-defeat. End of.
1
You might want to fact check your claims about Obama and Iraq
https://www.npr.org/2015/12/19/459850716/fact-check-did-obama-withdraw-from-iraq-too-soon-allowing-isis-to-grow
1
How dare you trivialize our brave men and women with your disgusting nonchalant plain stupid remark concerning the death of our soldiers. You said “endured just 14 fatalities in Afghanistan in 2018,” Just...Just! You sir obviously they have no skin in the game other than to sit in your arm chair and flap your lips about something you know nothing. This poorly written opinion piece promoting a never ending war so you have something to write about is not worth discussing when you so blatantly dismiss the worth of our soldiers. Shame on you. I can bet you have zero skin in the game and if your son or daughter were over there I bet your tune would change and change very quickly.
1
I'm confident Pompeo will do neither. He is as much as hypocrite and liar as his boss. They both stink.
2
Were I Afghani, I would seriously consider applying for statehood. Is there something in our constitution that precludes sovereign entities from joining us? ( By merely posing the question, the value of my Kabul TIMESHARE has taken off!)
I would hate to be the parent of a soldier killed or maimed fighting in Afghanistan, only to see that sacrifice flushed down the commode. Negotiating with the enemy, rather than the elected government, is a terrible betrayal. I expect nothing honorable from this administration, but it hurts nonetheless to see our country stooping to such tactics.
1
it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. honor has little to do with the choice, except to be willing to look at bad options and make the hard choice. women and western liberals will probably get thrown under a bus, but we could say the same about such people in pakistan too.
meanwhile, syria, iraq and kurdistan continue to smolder, even though nation building in violent, unstable regions never seems to work well.
n.b. the afghanistan war has lasted longer than vietnam war. talk is cheap, military blood and treasure are not.
Why would Mike Pompeo, the conservative Secretary of State care any more about the fate of Afghan women than Congressman Mike Pompeo cared about women's rights here in the US? The only thing that matters to him, Donald Trump, and his other friends, is keeping his hands on the reins of power and all of these folks have shown that they will do anything, including lying, to do just that.
3
Pompeo will make a bunch of Afghani warlords and Taliban commanders multi-millionaires paying them off and in a year the Taliban will take over again. Bombs will explode, the Taliban will deny everything, drones will fly and we'll just fight a remote war from Germany. Afghanistan will increase it's opium output and the world will keep spinning. Same old same old.
I totally agree that Bret Stephens should round up all the other "hawks" and go to Afghanistan and continue the war, but the troops need to come home.
Pompeo, like other Republicans, are in lockstep with Trump. Things to which the Republicans loudly objected when Obama was in the Oval Office, e.g., the deficit, is acceptable now that Trump is in the Oval Office. Hypocrisy is not unique to the Republican Secretary of State; it is rampant among Republican politicians, and has been made manifestly evident in the case of the federal deficit.
4
Oh, la, la...
The United States of Absurdia and Pentagon have learned only two lessons from the Vietnam military fiasco:
No more live TV broadcast on any battlefield
No more 'hostiles' shooting us down on full retreat
They need to keep some kind of justifications for that 'victory'.
You have badly misread Pompeo. Everyone in the Trump administration is a huge hypocrite. But Pompeo is a complete sycophant. Only this week he said, "Trump is my leader." Maybe Trump has some mind-control drug which he requires all his top officials to take daily. He monitors their blood daily. If they skip a dose then they are fired.
2
A perfect compliment to the last Stephens oped I read arguing for newer, bigger and better nukes. A quagmire Afghanistan will always be, and extricating our troops out of it might very well be the only laudatory achievement of the Trump administration.
Our Afghan adventure will serve as a case study of stupidity for hundreds of years for two reasons. First, most Afghans are united in wanting an Islamic Caliphate and the destruction of all infidels (non-negotiable). The day after we leave, they will try to destroy the planet; the people are beyond help. What we must do is not change hearts and minds (we cannot), but plain make it impossible for them to act out their intentions. Second, and related, Taliban is a creature of the Pakistani military (an organization that owns a country called Pakistan, is enslaved to the Saudis, and uncomfortably in bed with China).
If we want the Taliban de-fanged, or plain out of Afghanistan, there is nothing to talk about with anyone. We've got to act and de-fang, de-fund, and decimate the Pakistani military. We need to go in there and redirect their military (regulars) to work on internal development and infrastructure projects (roads, rails, canals, dams and such) - work that is now being done by Chinese military in plain clothes.
Time is of the essence. The Chinese take over of Pakistan has begun, it is a matter of time before that country willingly assumes the unenviable and irreversible status of Tibet, its population treated the same way as the Uighur.
I.e., solutions to Afghanistan lie squarely in Pakistan (and hence in China).
1
Yes, written by Bret Stephens, Journalist of Hypocrisy.
1
Trump has opened our eyes in one respect: He has shown that GOP "conservatives" were really never conservative. They are opportunists. I bet Pompeo will dorn a red shirt with a hammer and sickle if Trump asked him to do so; and so would Mitch "the thug" McConnell and all of the rest of the GOP "conservatives".
3
I have always thought highly of men and women who attend the service academies.
The fact that Sec. Pompeo ranked first in his class at West Point gains extra points from me.
I have even granted him the benefit-of-my-doubt from time to time by believing that in serving Trump he may be acting as some sort of a limited check on him.
But that was then, and this is now.
He has gone over lock-stock-and barrel now to the dark side, where Trump and the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia reside.
3
One important point of distinction between this and the withdrawal from Iraq is that, when Obama pulled out of Iraq, it was because the Iraqi government wanted us out. We would have had to renegotiate an agreement for our troops to stay and it wasn't at all clear that we could get a deal that would acceptably protect our troops. Yes, Panetta wanted us to try to get a deal. Obama didn't want the hassle. In this case though, the people who want us gone are our enemies. In that sense, it's more like Vietnam, but then, all analogies have their limitations.
Bret Stephens's column is useful in giving us perspective on how the standing of the U.S. government in the world has changed from 2001 and 2019 with its endless wars in Afghanistan and the Middle East.
Pompeo the liar's agreement with the Taliban shows that the Afghan invasion wasn't about equality for women regardless of how they spun it.
Whether or not Randolph Bourne is correct that "War is the health of the state," the government's genocidal wars have been horrible for the world, and bad for America.
2
Yes 14 casualties in 7 months is not a great burden but the question is what are we achieving there? Reports I've read say the Taliban is currently expanding the territory they control. Is there a good plan to stop them? Is the very presence of infidel forces (that's the ordinary Afghan's view of us) increasing support for the Taliban?
A huge tragedy of Vietnam was we expended so much blood and treasure we felt we could not leave, thus continuing to do the same to no good end.
Afghanistan has now overtaken that country as our longest conflict. It’s time to come home.
Very true
We lost 30,000, then another 30,000 trying to honor or justify the first 30,000
The latest chapter in our Afghan mess began when dubya decided to fight terrorism in Afghanistan on the cheap so that we could invade Iraq and capture its oil for his and Cheney's buddies. This decision allowed Osama to escape to Pakistan's frontier territories.
The earlier chapter was when we decided to do to the Soviets in Afghanistan what we thought they had done to us in Vietnam, and do it on the cheap by involving the Saudis and Pakistanis. This made the anti-Soviet campaign into a religious crusade led by fanatics who were incapable of making peace with each other to govern the country once the Soviets left and the secular and socialist Afghan government they left behind was defeated. The Afghan people, and especially the women, were better off with the Soviets than with their own Taliban, but we did not think that way about Afghanistan; it was still the Cold War.
We put enough men into Afghanistan to stir up the Taliban but not enough to contain their resulting offensive. We were also reluctant to seek power in Afghanistan the way the natives did -- coalitions, patronage, and bribes -- because that would entail sitting down with our enemies, rather than defeating them, and thereby giving our opposing politicians ammunition and destroying our official, idealistic propaganda justifications for the war.
So we are still there, unable to put a pretty face on either complete withdrawal or commitment of enough resources to do something.
2
The hawks have proved as foolish about dealing with these wars as the doves. The hawks think that there are a finite number of enemies and if one destroys them, the danger is over. That idea is ridiculous. The fundamental ability of terrorists and guerrilla forces to survive and keep coming back are populations of disenfranchised people who keep them going. The remedy is nation building which hawks seem to think is a waste of time. But Afghanistan has been the proof of this proposition, the central government is more likely the municipality of Kabul, and the rest of the country is regions of thousands of local governing entities, mostly of small communities. When it was invaded in 2001, Afghanistan's primary source of income was foreign aid, and it's second was the opium trade. At that time, the U.S. Government declared victory when it was no such thing.
I hope if they do this 'Afghanization' thing they organize a ceremony where Trump pushes a helicopter off an aircraft carrier into the ocean, to mark the beginning of the last withdrawal. There could even be a banner that says "Peace With Honor" or something like that.
Ah - another fine graduate from the Kansas Board of Education system - known for instilling in its students a balanced view of things.
3
Be it tame or conquer, no one has managed. Afghanistan will always be its own country. Humanitarian concerns get lip service while women and children suffer Taliban atrocities.
We should let the UN deal with it but to what end.
It has been well proven that no solution exists.
2
What a mess. We will be mopping up after Trump for decades; if we are lucky. No one else could have done this much damage in such a short period of time, and it's not over. Start setting aside the cleaning supplies. It is our only hope.
1
There is nothing to suggest that Mike Pompeo is an honorable man. He aids and abbetts the lies that freely fall from Trump’s mouth. His sole job appears to make sure Trump gets elected.
Pompeo and Bolton have been trying to gin up a war in Iran. That does not seem to be working for them and Trump do to lack of public support. Why not try in Afghanistan to bring about a phony peace. Anything to keep Trump in the White House.
Is there an honest broker in any part of the Trump Administration?
We should not have these bullies in charge of our State Department or National Security.
3
Talk about Vietnam redux! A corrupt government unpopular with its citizens being propped up by the U.S. for fear that it will be replaced by one not to our liking. If, after eighteen years of an influx of American blood and treasure, the friendly government might not survive, isn't it time we reconsidered? The only difference I can discern is that the opposition in Vietnam wasn't hijacking jets in the U.S. and flying them into skyscrapers.
Please stop with the persistent criticism of President Obama for "withdrawing too hastily" from Iraq. President Obama withdrew US troops in accordance with the exact terms and and schedule negotiated and signed by George W. Bush. The NYT claims to be fact based. Look it up.
5
President Obama desired a slower drawdown of the last 55,000. Troops, but the Iraqi government would not to agree to protections and immunity for American troops from civil prosecutions. Biden worked tirelessly on these negotiations. It was the Iraqi governments decision.
1
Obama: Just as foolish as George W. Bush! In foreign policy, that's about right.
No honor among thieves or Republicans. Some people can tick both boxes.
2
Trump will declare that the war was won, UNDER HIS WATCH!!.
THE GREATEST VICTORY, OF ALL TIME.
We should pull out, but if the Taliban supports terrorism against American interests we should retaliate with attacks, from the air ,on appropriate targets, and make it clear that these specific attacks are in response to specific acts, and maybe policy, of terrorism against the USA.
2
This guy's incompetence and lack of character reveals how false the squeaky clean image of West Point, his alma mater, really is. And the problem is that it's gone over the moon extreme conservative. No intellectual balance there. Pompeo is the product.
2
Typical trump enabler.
He’s sold his soul to be close to power and will be cast off in humiliation when he no longer serves trump’s purpose.
Looking forward to that day.
3
The pomposity of Pompeo is preposterous. If there ever were a man who epitomized the term “Gas Bag” it is Mike Pompeo, his ignorance is only surpassed by his arrogance.
4
And, once again Stephens recommends swallowing the fly, then swallowing the spider to catch the fly, then swallowing the bird to catch the spider, then swallowing the cat to catch the bird...ad infinitum.
Oh, and Obama's and Clinton's fault.
3
Moral price? Who are we kidding with this administration in charge? Pompeo’s an end time believer, can’t he oversee some ridiculous catastrophe in the land of David instead? This could rank with W’s “ Mission Accomplished” as as a big campaign nothingburger.
3
This small businessman from Kansas could not believe he was given this job. He now knows why, he is to be the dummy for Trump.
5
"If the secretary has a sense of shame, he might consider apologizing to Obama ...If he has a sense of honor, he might consider resigning ..."
If frogs had wings....
5
October? Yikes. If we fall for that, we're even stupider than electing Trump in the first place says we are. Like Sodom and Gamorrah, if we cannot find a critical mass of Never-Trumpers, do we really deserve to survive?
1
Lakaitel pompeo, and the rest of the generals silent about the disgraced military actions of an inept and delusional commander in chief, have no honor. Like the russians, we will leave weapons and lots of dead and misery in Afghanistan
Pompeo's voice in Congress was ear splitting over just about every issue in which his voice has now been silenced. It's clear what his agenda is: to avoid being fired by Trump by simply rubber stamping anything Trump says. Yes, he is a hypocrite, but no more hypocritical than all the Republicans in Congress who remain mute when they hear Trump spew his never ending barrage of lies and attacks on people of color, Jews, the Danish Prime Minister, and anyone else who dares to challenge him.
5
The Department of Swagger wishes to transfer US troops from Kabul to Tehran.
1
"progressives have been pining for an Afghan exit for at least a decade"
Vintage Stephens.
Pompeo is doing something stupid. Trump is forcing him to do so. Who to blame? "Progressives."
Come on, Stephens, you're supposed to be a journalist. Quote someone who said, in 2009, "I am pining for an Afghan exit." Until you do, you're just bluff and bluster.
P.S. When I Googled "afghan exit 2009", I found that "On 17 February 2009, Barack Obama ordered 17,000 more US troops be sent to Afghanistan". Sheesh.
2
Neocon lightweight and perennial Israel apologist Stephens shows his true colors once again. I mean, what will the U.S. do without a good war to fight?
Especially one that's been going on for the better part of 2 decades, cost upwards of a trillion dollars and countless U.S. and Afghan lives. Oh, and did I mention it offers approximately ZERO strategic advantage?
For God's sake, these impostors must be stopped before they do us the great disservice of ENDING A WAR that no longer (never did) needs to be fought. What are they thinking?
1
If as reported the USA will subsidize the Taliban with $2 billion p.a. this should ensure that they toe the line.
On this special occasion, I want to acknowledge George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for creating this mess. Their misguided effort to track down Osama bin Laden, was a boon for body bag manufacturers, veterans hospitals and the Military Industrial Complex.
6
“If Pompeo has a sense of honor…”
William Barr said in an interview that he knows he is old and no going to be around forever, so there are things such as climate change he doesn’t concern himself with.
And then I read in a recent Mike Ford piece, ‘Trump’s Tax on the National Psyche’, this corollary, “Soon after Trump took office, White House aides tried to persuade him that the national debt would become unsustainable in the future. “Yeah, but I won’t be here,” he reportedly replied.”
We continually make the mistake of becoming perplexed by politician’s irreducible behavior inconsistencies because we imagine others have the same moral compass we posses, and we mire in wonder that they seem to have the ability to straddle moral and immoral behavior with an inexplicable ease.
The question that more perfectly drives to the heart of the matter is, ‘who are these people willing to destroy their reputations in the public sphere towards an end they consider above their very reputations?’
Some, we see evidence of it, will be handsomely remunerated in their post-Washington careers, joining ‘think tanks’, doing extraordinarily well paid speaking engagements, entering lobbying firms, etc.
But these elder wrecking balls doing dastardly destruction in their final years, knowing they cannot be held accountable once they are gone, knowing that all they have to do is avoid accountability until the end: there’s an ugly pathology going on.
Bret has uncovered a hypocritical politician! Why is this not on the front page?
2
I will bet he thinks that he will get a Nobel Prize like Kissinger did in Vietnam for handing the country over to the aggressor.
1
Afghanistan is a stone age country in thought, word, and deed.
Get out now.
The whole of the republican party, republican administration of executive branch and the war hawks and corporate thugs of the military industrial war contractors that democrats are beholding to, should be tried for treason.
These people are not interested in the security and future of this country. ONLY PROFITS
2
The trouble w/ Pompeo is that he just ain’t that bright.
1
Mike "Pompous" Pompeo, a name that will live in infamy.
1
Perhaps Pompeo and the Trump administration are the natural people to make an American compact with the Taliban.
After all, each side represents the most regressive, misogynistic, bigoted, ignorant and authoritarian currents in its own society.
3
Pompeo is just another clown in the continuing circus that is the Donald Trump administration.
3
It’s very hard to know whether staying or quitting is the correct road but although American military interventions have been abject failures, Viet Nam and Iraq topping the list, there is also the example of Korea where our intervention has proved very successful and in fact we are still there to guarantee that success continues 70 years later.
2
Mr. Stephenson, I see no reason to cast this discussion in terms of hawks and doves. The discussion should be that if Trump does this, it is only to get votes. From whom, I am not sure. Doesn't the base want us to fight terrorism? Don't they want us to assert our power everywhere?
Liberals may traditionally want out of wars, but that doesn't mean we endorse working with a splinter terrorist group vs. the elected government of a country. Everyone knows you cannot trust the Taliban. Everyone knows you can't believe a "deal" can be worked out between conflicting parties by working with only one side.
Focus on the problem. These one-sided "deals" this administration endorses are fiction.
1
I share Mr. Stephens' view that a pullout is a bad idea, that a pullout to help re-elect Mr. Trump is a travesty, and that Mr. Pompeo's views expressed eight years ago reflect a saner and more moral analysis.
But Mr. Pompeo is an employee of the president and serves at his pleasure. If he, owing to a refusal to agree to a pullout, thus had to resign, his replacement would have to negotiate it instead, and perhaps less ably. I can understand if Mr. Pompeo for this reason sees no point in refusing his superior.
Not everybody is a newspaper columnist who can't be bossed around at the office.
It should be clear by now that shame and honor in the GOP are as mythical as tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations paying for themselves, conservatives giving a rip about personal responsibility or fiscal responsibility, and Trump’s sense of class, diplomacy, and decorum. All are as nonexistent as Santa and the Easter Bunny.
2
Sorry, Ross. Mike is just being a good, modern Republican. Mike and Donny are the natural consequence of what the Republican Party has become over the past 40 years. It's all about power and money, not about what's good for the country.
4
@jas2200
It's Bret, not Ross. But I understand, as I made a
(worse) mistake of the same nature just recently. I'll be mortified for about a couple of weeks, but it seems unlikely anyone cared. Cheers.
2
Like it or not, if the Taliban gains control of the country, again, Al Qaeda and ISIS will have homes from which to project terrorism around the world. That means, we will be going back, after the people who have worked with us have been purged by the Taliban. We have to accept that when a country is not a modern state, the players who have to be addressed can be very hard to identify and perhaps unlikely to fulfill agreements.
2
@Casual Observer Which other countries that aren't "modern states" do you plan to occupy?
1
@Mike
Which other states are allowing terrorists organizations to destroy three thousand Americans in the United States at once, or are trying to do so?
1
Well said Bret. but i must take issue with this comment:
"Even liberals like former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta criticized Obama for withdrawing too hastily from Iraq, thereby creating the power vacuum that ISIS quickly filled. It was a fiasco that ended only when Obama was forced to return U.S. troops to Iraq a few years later."
I do not know the context of Mr Panetta's comment , but all of it smacks of 20/20 hindsight.
The Iraqis asked us to leave.
W. ordered the withdrawal.
Obama carried it out.
But who knew that the Shiite Iraqis forces would be so feckless in the face of a determined Sunni force?
So for me continuing to pin the ISIS disaster solely on Obama seems like a distortion of history but nevertheless a cautionary tale for the present.
4
It is too late for all you Trump voters to criticize the administration's handling of a possible withdrawal from Afghanistan. Trump doesn't care what you voters think. It is all about Trump.
Trump is his own press secretary now. He controls the message.
2
The people in power only care about staying in power. Everything else is secondary.
2
We went into Afghanistan with nothing but short term objectives... no coherent, overarching strategy for the region, and absolutely no exit strategy. What could possibly go wrong?
As it turned out, a lot. And now it seems that our 'plan' to leave may be even more half baked. Unfortunately, that's par for the course with this administration. I've always considered Pompeo to be a poser, like his boss. I'm sorry to see him confirming that opinion.
1
With respect, Mr. Stephens, it's not YOUR children who will be sent to fight and die in Afghanistan if the war continues. I have no children but my girlfriend's children are the children of a senior enlisted man who met their mother in the Army. They have the military on both sides of the family. They are likely to enlist at some point and I don't want them killed.
1
There will never ever be a “fix” for the chronic troubles in Afghanistan or other areas located in the region. It is a “sad” state of affairs. For the moment global terrorism has been silenced a bit but surely will rear its ugly head again no matter what the USA does or does not do.
4
If my memory is correct, Henry Kissinger had a press conference regarding Vietnam in late October 1972 -- just before the election -- to announce that "peace was at hand". Nixon went on to win the election handily.
It was an obvious sham but people bought it. Nixon went to great lengths to win. So here we go again. And Nixon wasn't close to the level of incompetence of Trump.
3
"betrayed the vulnerable populations we had endeavored to protect against a barbaric enemy"
This is a lie. Though as hard as it is for me to believe, Bret might actaully believe what he is writing. All across the world vulnerable populations rightly see the US as a barbaric enemy. Sadly, often enough barbaric enemies clash and the people in between pay a terrible price. I wonder has Bret ever tallied up the numbers of people killed or taken any responsibilty at all for the devestation caused as a result of policies he has argued for. Being a "hawk" sounds relatively benign. Nothing like what it actually is.
1
@Robert Roth
Sometimes war is like chemotherapy. It increases danger and suffering with the aim of ending danger and suffering, thereby curtailing the overall toll.
If you care to deny that the present instance is one of those times, fine. You might be right or wrong. And we agree that a knee-jerk warlike frame of mind is undoubtedly to be condemned.
But hawkishness is not automatically the maximizer of killing and devastation that you assert it is. The European jews who survived the Second World War owing to the British hawks of eighty years ago next month (I know one who is 94) could tell you that.
It's a religious war, therefore unwinnable. This is still Bush/Cheney's war, we (Obama) got Bin Laden, time to leave, of course the Taliban will take over, as brutal as ever, but maybe the Soviets, er, the Russians will return for round two (or three). The only stabilizing factor in the Middle East was Saddam Hussain, and he's long gone. Time to move on in hopes that the fire left by Bush/Cheney will burn itself out.
1
@bobdc6 It's not a religious war. The politics of Afghanistan are much more complicated than that. But I agree that the internal conflict is not likely to be solved by the token presence of US troops for decades.
2
Americans make the fatal mistake of believing there's actually something to be "won" in Afghanistan. You live with the false assumption that the people of Afghanistan want democracy or want to adopt your way of life. It's the graveyard of empires for a reason. Believe it or not, the Afghans are just fine and dandy being tribal, being some of the most independent people on earth. They neither believe in or, indeed, need democracy or your values or control.
For heaven's sake, get the heck out of there. In fact, withdraw your bases and military from everywhere. The world would be a better place.
4
It should be obvious to everyone that foreign armies will never succeed in taming Afghanistan. The British failed to do it, the Russians failed to do it, and Americans failed to do it. The country cannot be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. The Taliban, in particular, are very attached to their ideology and will fight to the death to preserve and impose it.
Consequently, throwing trillions of taxpayer dollars down this black hole has been an exercise in futility. Furthermore, we need these dollars at home to benefit American citizens. So the goal vis a vis Afghanistan should simply be ‘containment’...perhaps a blockade to prevent weapons and dual purpose goods from entering the country, as well as restricted travel outside the country.
If Afghans want to participate in modernity, they’ll have to defeat the Taliban on their own. The international community can help from afar, but we can’t do the job for them.
1
So Brett, I’ll ask you this. What does victory in Afghanistan look like? How will we know when we can or should leave? Should we stay there forever & ever? Is the cost of this continual “war” worth it?
It’s for sure nobody in Trump’s orbit has any idea now. Nor did any of your GW Bush buddies have any idea then.
So why are we even there?
2
Pompeo will probably resign and run for the Senate in 2020.
I'm more concerned with Pompeo coveting Iran than getting out of Afghanistan.
3
“They were careless people, Tom and Daisy- they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.” -- "The Great Gatsby"
"If he has a sense of honor, he might consider resigning rather than fathering the catastrophe that may soon befall Afghanistan. I’m confident he’ll do neither."
Well, Bret, that about sums it up, doesn't it?
An arrogant, belligerent man who cares only about making Trump happy. Forget the poor women who will be killed for slight "transgressions" under the Taliban, forget those who have died or been seriously injured trying to turn things there around, forget the idea of open negotiations. The Afghani government is left out of negotiations and that's OK? Only to someone in Trump's world view.
Just one more example of Terrible Revolting Untenable Mindless Policies put forth in the name of the citizens of this wonderful country. Poor Afghanistan! Poor world!
1
@Jeanie LoVetri And yet apparently we don't care enough about women who are jailed or killed in Saudi Arabia to invade that country. Interesting.
There will never be a deal that the taliban honor.
Isis has already showed up too.
And now I hear Drumbo saying let the Russians have Afghanistan???
“They make a desert and call it peace.” Sums up the Bush wars succinctly.
Mike Pompeo is a crusader and an extremely dangerous man.
1
Bret, if you ever wanted to understand what we liberals mean when we talk about "white male privilege" look no further than all the white men who came to the Trump administration with impeccable reputations and quickly proved to be nothing more than incompetent and unprincipled sycophants.
How then did men like Barr and Pompeo gain their flawless reputations?
White male privilege.
Brett's always up for giving the masses an incomplete quick history in his articles. Apparently this was an article on Mike Pompeo, based on the bookend paragraphs that mention his name. The meat is a small history lesson. A poor one.
In an article on Mike Pompeo, he mentions Barack Obama 3x, Bill Richardson 1x, Leon Panetta 1x, Bill Clinton 1x.
No mention of the man who entered us into the war, Mr. GWBush Jr., nor Sec of Defense Don Rumsfeld, or VP Dick Cheney.
Brett, if you wish to do a quick review of history in an article to appear, "fair & balanced" it might also be fair to edit in the architects?
2
If Pompeo goes along with all this stuff he can remain Secretary of State. There is no way he would ever be the Secretary of State for a normal administration. Some people crave titles.
I've been posting comments everywhere about the disaster unfolding in Afghanistan. How do we agree to talks which do not include the gov't? How do we leave all the women to Taliban after we leave? How clueless is this Administration?
As for Pompeo, there are no ethical people willing to work with the current occupier of the Oval Office. Pompeo, like his snake of a boss, talks out of all sides of his mouth.
3
Not one mention of the blunders of bush and Chaney, and”only “ 14 k I a in 2018 is 14 too many. Cheers
2
Shameless as ever, bret is incapable of attacking Trump without attacking Democrats first. That aside bret ignores the contradiction in his argument: us presence is indispensable, but only 14 were killed last year because us troops aren't doing much fighting anymore. Can't have it both ways, though as usual bret tries to. Trump and Pompeii are a disaster. But bret is too much like them to see the real reason.
2
Mike Pompeo can send in Hen Team 13 aka Donald Trump,Jr., Eric Trump, Ivanka Trump, Tiffany Trump, Jared Kushner, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Sean Hannity, Ted Cruz, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani and Bret Stephens to the frontlines in Afghanistan.
And al Qaeda, ISIS and the Taliban will eagerly surrender? Right?
Since 9/11/01 a mere 0.75% of Americans have volunteered to wear the military uniform of any American armed force. And they have been ground to emotional, mental and physical dust by repeated deployments in ethnic sectarian foreign civil wars that have no military solution.
While the rest of us pretend to be brave honorable patriots by rising to sing the national anthem and saluting the flag at sporting events. Or scribbling punditry from the pages of the NYT.
2
"If the secretary has a sense of shame..."
Are you joking?
Very clearly, this administration, both former and current members, have demonstrated repeatedly THEY HAVE NO SHAME.
Just ask Lindsay Graham.
3
Hypocrisy is absolutely correct. Pompeo who was top in his class at West Point and Harvard Law is obviously intelligent. It would appear he has designs on a White House bid at some point as well. However, after watching him during the fraudulent Benghazi congressional investigation and his abject willingness to shine Trump's shoes, it would appear he doesn't think for himself, is an absolute partisan hack and a moreover waste of time. Folks, a clear example of wasted potential and education.
4
Afghanistan for Afghani's, man!
The currently "propped-up" democratically elected "puppet" government likely will fall, atrocities and dictatorship occur. We cannot change the country's history or culture in a few decades. We cannot impose Christian judeo values on other tribes, like how men and women are segregated. Other countries have tried, if you know history.
At best, taxpayers in America supporting troops and minimal bloodshed of our own, should applaud Pompeo 's decision to focus on America's closer national security issues, like securing our borders at home, as our ally in the middle East Israel teaches via their actions. Defense, defence, defence.
Pompeo is an evangelical in thrall to “the (other) chosen one.”
He will hang in there and do what is necessary to serve his worldly “king.”
If king trump wants a timely end to the war in October of 2020 to give him a leg up in November of 2020, that’s what his servant Pompeo will do.
3
Looking for shame from anyone associated with Trump is a fool’s errand. Like all the other lackeys and sycophants surrounding Trump, Pompeo is looking to cash-in on his stint with Trump. Unlike most of the others who want to leverage their service for some future payola, Pompeo seeks raw power. He showed what he was all about during the Benghazi hearings, a willing partisan hit man prepared to do whatever it takes to stand out amongst the other GOP hawks. Beware, Pompeo is a dangerous man.
4
Hey Brett, I believe the Taliban offered up Bin Laden but the US wanted pipeline rights as well. The US wouldn’t negotiate, rather bomb.
What a mistake. Cheney, Bush et al. Get out, stay out.
If I remember right, the Afghan War began as a campaign to end Al-Qaeda presence there, not directly a campaign against the Taliban --- a bit of mission creep. This story says "there's not a scintilla of evidence" that the Taliban has ceased supporting Al-Qaeda; is there evidence that the Taliban still countenances Al-Qaeda? Most historians say that the Arab-centered Al-Qaeda was thoroughly despised by the Afghan people and distrusted by the Taliban. Originally, the Taliban followed Muslim dicta that requires hospitality to guests, and the Taliban had welcomed Arabs as guests who couldn't be ousted. If there's no significant evidence now that Al-Qaeda has a presence in Afghanistan, does the mission creep that enfolded the Taliban as enemies have any current justification --- no matter that they are barbaric anti-modern Muslims terrorizing their own people?
Pompeo believes in Armageddon and the rapture -- and in Donald Trump, ostensibly. His hypocrisy should not be the issue here. His gullibility alone should be disqualifying.
2
In the coming years, the Taliban will embark on atrocities on such a scale that we will think of the Cambodian killing fields like we do a Saturday in the park.
1
Once again this administration is doing what Putin wants.
He wants us out so he can go back in.
Donnie says, "whatever you want, boss"
1
You contradict yourself. First, you downplay U.S. involvement in Afghanistan by pointing out the mere 18 deaths there in 2018, and later refer to it as a "critical national security issue."
Make up your mind. Most of the rest of us have. We've discovered that it's almost impossible to defeat an idea, even a despicable one.
Well good on you Brett for your aid and comfort to these dangerous hypocrites (the GOP) all these years. You think you're off the hook because you criticize an occasional policy disaster? It's your mess, and consider your nose rubbed in it. Will you learn your lesson? Not bloody likely. Here's a thought -- why don't you cheer yourself up by proposing another systemically ruinous tax cut or denying climate change is man made? Perk you right up!
1
Every time I see a picture of Pompeo, it takes me to a picture of Pompeo sitting and laughing with the Saudis after the death of Jamal Khashoggi. Pompeo must have a very warped sense of humor.
He’s running negotiations with the Taliban? Wondering if he’s got a big grin on his face at that table, too......
3
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/22/exclusive-crappy-jew-year-new-york-times-editors-antisemitism-racism-exposed/
With each passing five minutes – gets better and better...
First, two degrees of separation on LinkedIn – not even at the password-needed level – lay out a web of likely groupthink that's likely getting rummaged through at this very moment...
Second, I know you're not a vengeful person, but the only thing that showed up that wasn't from the last 90 minutes – some shade he'd tossed at your climate-change column, back in ’17...
Third, I'd stopped watching NYTCO, because it’d been so steady – you may want to check Discovery’s orbit...
NYT BoD has always been an interesting read – even more so, this past month...
Assume your parachute is red – though a fair amount of blue splatter recently...
Honor? Shame? How can these words be associated with anyone who works for Don the Con?
1
""Even those who want the U.S. to leave Afghanistan, come what may, should be dismayed to see an American strategic decision be so nakedly dictated by the electoral needs of a president who wants to take credit for ending “endless wars.” "
Bret, after 3 years of this administration, how can there be anything left to "dismay" you regarding the president's politicization of foreign policy?
Donald Trump is the most blatantly political president this country has ever known, and he does his damnednest to ensure it stays that way by appointing yes men.
I've been appalled at how West Point Mike Pompeo--who regularly sniped at Barack Obama for the slightest hint of political motivation--has but one motivation: to make his boss look good on the world stage.
Whatever the pros and cons of an Afghanistan withdrawal (which I favor after decades of trying to pick sides in terrorism), you can be sure why Pompeo is holding this plan so closely to his vest.
1
Of course Pompeo is hypocritical; he's a Republican. That seems to be a requirement for that party these days.
2
Typical Trump game plan: make outrageous claims; surrender; declare victory.
And the result for the United States will be, in the words of the Kipling poem, “Here lies a fool who tried to hustle the East.”
If Pompeo has a sense of honor..."
Is it not clear to all by now that no one in the Trump Administration has a sense of honor, or decency or shame. If they have a scintilla of, or an appearance of, these human traits, they are fired and denounced as secret Democrats, insulted as stupid, scapegoated as responsible for Trump's failures.
Maybe the fear of such a fate keeps Pompeo doing his master's bidding, or maybe Pompeo believes his master is capable of convincing the American people that a future resurgence of terrorism spread from within Afghanistan is Obama's fault. There too, Pompeo will follow Trump. On his knees, a polite distance from behind.
The consequences of driving policy for political gain has no meaning in Trumpland where reality is what Trump says it is.
Why didn’t we hand it over to the Taliban 18 years ago? It’s good to point out that the last time the Taliban were in charge, the suicide rate for afghan women surged. They also starved and their children did too( because they couldn’t work to provide) . Donald trump and his passel of cowardly bigots is absolutely beneath contempt.
I see that Bret is still peddling the lie "...Obama for withdrawing too hastily from Iraq, thereby creating the power vacuum that ISIS quickly filled. It was a fiasco that ended only when Obama was forced to return U.S. troops to Iraq a few years later.".
Bret, You know that GWB set the withdrawal date from Iraq. You know Obama wanted to leave troops in Iraq. You know that Al Maliki (another GWB's gifts to Obama), the Iraqi Government would not support a Status of Forces Agreement and Iraq wanted their invaders (us) out. Also, when ISIS, became a problem, guess what? They asked for our help and we gave it. Which is the way it is supposed to work. But Brett, you hawkishness and animosity toward Obama just won't allow you to tell the truth will it.
2
The least we could do is offer US citizenship to every Afghan woman who would like to flee in advance.
1
"Honor" is not something that anyone in trumps orbit understands.
2
A sense of shame? A sense of honor? From anyone in this administration? You gotta be kidding. They are categorically incapable of it.
2
Anybody who works for Trump is tainted forever! Pompeo regards himself as a future Republican candidate, however, he has the “Trump Taint” and will be regarded as damaged goods!!!
3
Only problem....Pompeo has no sense of honor...no one in this administration does
2
Honor? Trump administration? Oxymoron.
2
All I need to know about Mike Pompeo to begin my evaluation of him as a leader is this bit of reporting: "Pompeo, an evangelical Christian who keeps an open Bible on his desk, now says it’s possible that God raised up Trump as a modern Queen Esther, the Biblical figure who convinced the King of Persia to spare the Jewish people." My evaluation would continue of him as to his belief in the rapture, and if he believes this as well, his slavish devotion to the new "chosen one" becomes understandable. Being a hypocrite and a liar is morally justified if you are working to usher in the death of millions of people (unbelievers) so that you can be amongst the "saved" in the New "Kingdom". I wish that this sci-fi version of Biblical History was a silly diversion, but like Calvin and his followers, it is not. This form of hidden Evangelical Christian Nationalism is more dangerous because of knaves & sycophants like Mr. Pompeo. Oh yes, and of course, evil in its words & actions, and very scary.
1
This withdrawal may be inevitable but it is problematic because Afghanistan borders Pakistan and insurgents could further destabilize that nuclear armed nation and gain access to its weapons of mass destruction.
1
When is Bret Stephens going to realize that the Taliban are part of the fabric of Afghanistan, for better or worse. It would be great if the whole world were peace-loving Quakers, but the reality is different, and we cannot be Afghanistan's policemen.
And you're wrong about Osama Bin Laden. Your favorite son, Bush II, could have gotten Bin Laden easily if he had wanted to after 9/11, by offering the Afghans money (say 100 million - which is chump change compared to the money and lives we eventually spent), but no no, had we captured bin Laden, we would have had no excuse to go into Iraq, which was the ultimate goal. Bin Laden needed to be alive and well and in hiding until we could invade Iraq, which as Richard Clarke will tell you, was the plan all along.
Obama captured Osama easily, and Bush II could have done so, but the endless wars for Halliburton and other contractors had to continue.
We cannot police the world, especially the Islamic world, with Shia fighting Sunni, and some in both camps wanting to terrorize infidels. The best thing is to withdraw and offer aid and non-military assistance. The arc of foreign policy has to move toward peace, peace, peace, and away from war, war, war. The world has enough problems - notably our teetering planet - to be concerned about, and our constant engagement with insignificant problems saps our collective energy away from the more important problems.
What would Mr. Stephens wants the US to do. If after 18 years the most powerful military in the world could not destroy a group of soldiers with no military expertise, isn't that a proof that what the US is doing is wrong.
The Afghan war cost the US around $50 Billion/ year. What does the US has to show for?
With $50 billion cities across the US could get clean water, built schools worth it of the 21st century.
Since when are women rights a reason to go to war. Should the US be bombing Saudi Arabia tomorrow, for Saudi Arabia doesn't grant its women any rights. Only this year were they grant the right to drive.
The US lost that war because it was an unwinnable war in the first place. How could you win a war against invisible enemies. It's a more of a cultural war than anything else. These people still live in the 17th century and it's up to them to change. The change will never come from the outside. And it doesn't help that after 2001 the US did nothing to stop Pakistan from supporting the Taliban. The Haqqani brothers you mentioned in your piece lived openly in Pakistan for year. Bin Laden was killed in his residence near a Pakistani military base (talk about a hiding spot). Since 2001, the US has given Pakistan more than $20 billion in aid.
Just bring back those soldiers home and save lives and money. Maybe those failures in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria should teach us a lesson. But apparently not, since the same people are talking about Iran as our next target.
2
@Chaks
agreed.
Pompeo, like so many other formerly semi-respectable politicians, has taken a knee at the altar of Trump. No going back now; no way to salvage his shattered reputation.
6
Ah, yes, peace with honor. It worked so well the last time.
1
While at West Point, Pompeo lived under the motto "Duty, Honor, Country". Another standing order is "I will not lie, cheat, or steal nor tolerate those who do". It's unclear what motto he might ascribe to today.
14
If memory serves, almost immediately after 9/11, Bush/Cheney began the military intervention in Afghanistan. But in a matter of weeks, decided Iraq was the better target--it had oil. And Dubya's daddy chose not to proceed to Baghdad in the earlier Gulf War. That left Afghanistan as a military stepchild, an afterthought, a strategic flaw. And that was before John Bolton was given a recess appointment as our Ambassador to the U.N.; his performance was so sniveling and insulting that when time came to affirm the appointment, it was blatantly clear the Senate would not confirm him and he withdrew his name. Trump is fond of discards, especially now that he's our Messiah. But Pompeo as Sec. of State only serves to affirm Trump's disregard for diplomacy. An evangelical Christian in this position after the almost aristocratic John Kerry, the intelligence and early exposure to Nazism of Madelaine Albright, and regard for Hillary Clinton when she was named "the most admired woman in the world," only heightens how inappropriate he is. Evangelicals typically believe their religion is superior to all others, that others are merely cults or idolaters, that Christians are called by their god to "go forth and preach the gospel," which implies brainwashing after thoroughly disrespecting those others. That thinking maligns diplomacy. "Yes, we would greatly appreciate your joining us in our efforts against _____________(fill in the blank) but we're holier."
5
The question is what are our national strategic interests here?
We have been involved essentially in a centuries-old religious war within Islam for decades. Nothing we or anyone else will do will end that war.
We switch sides when we feel like it or if we risk the cut-off oil or as, in the case of Iraq, they decided to try to take over Kuwait's oil.
It has been all about oil. That was enough until one faction, angry with our forces on the holy soil of Mecca and Medina, decided to go insurgent and attack our country.
Oil is a product that is literally ruining our world. Therefore it is no longer really our strategic interest is it? We could reduce our oil consumption to only our own production by investing in green energy, reduce our carbon footprint (which is still the largest one), and totally eliminate a strategic vulnerability. But we have no vision as a country to do that.
While Mr. Stevens is correct about what will happen and all of us are sure that women will be beaten back into submission, strict sharia law will be imposed and a human rights disaster will occur.
But that is happening in China, Miramar, Sudan, Saudi, you name it. Again, what really are our strategic interests?
2
@Mike; "Again, what really are our strategic interests?"
I know it was rhetorical but I'm going to raise my hand and say, I know, I know!
Same as the petro internationals.
Bingo.
The justifiable invasion of Afghanistan was botched from the get-go.
It was never given the proper resources because Cheney, Wolfowitz and the rest of the gang had their sights set on invading Iraq.
I can only wonder how Afghanistan might have turned out if we had gone in in strength and then did some serious nation building and peacekeeping.
Alas, we'll never know.
12
We may have sent our military into Afghanistan first but the plans to strike Iraq came first. We didn't have our best team running the country then, now we have team Z. Will they wag the dog when their poll numbers give them no other choice? Impeachment may be the best tool to fend off getting wagged.
Obama also was capable of something that Mr. Trump is decidedly not: he could admit that he didn't always know everything and that meant that if circumstances changed or he was wrong he could reverse course. Trump is dug in: what is most important is that he "look" strong, not that he be strong.
13
I was stationed in Afghanistan 1988-89 when the Soviets were completing their withdrawal. The general assumption back then was that the Najibullah regime would fall quickly, and that the Mujahedin would take over within a few months. Instead, Najibullah held on for years, and Afghanistan was ultimately taken over by the Taliban, who virtually destroyed all the old resistance groups with whom the U.S. had dealt.
We now have a similar situation, except the U.S. is playing the role of the Soviet Union. If we withdraw, the Afghan government may well hold on for a few years, but ultimately, the Taliban will win, and they will immediately ally themselves with the groups who want to attack the U.S. directly, including al-Qaeda and and perhaps even ISIS.
Whether or not to withdraw from Afghanistan is a false choice. The real choice is: do we want to continue fighting transnational terrorist groups in the Middle East and South Asia, or do we want to fight them here? If Trump withdraws from Afghanistan, the next 9/11, if and when it occurs, will be on him.
7
I agree that Afghanistan faces another disaster after the Taliban is allowed to spread its tyranny again. But the war couldn't be won without confronting Pakistan and the other foreign powers that oppose a civil society in Afghanistan. And a war that couldn't be won is a war that is lost. Even if we stayed another 100 years, it wouldn't matter now.
4
Stephens's argument is compelling and supports a similar argument made in RINOcracy.com: "Advocates of withdrawal often refer to our effort in Afghanistan as an 18 year “war,” but the fact is that our current mission is primarily one of training and support. Ten American soldiers were reportedly killed in action this year, but we will dishonor their deaths, as well as the 2,420 that preceded them in Afghanistan, if we return that country to the Taliban and see it become a home for domestic atrocities and a base for international terrorists."
3
Pompeo was my congressman (I voted against him); I've met him once or twice. I'm not a fan. In fairness to him, though, the job of Secretary of State is to effectively execute the foreign policy vision of the President. Although Pompeo might disagree with Trump over the strategic thinking, as long as he doesn't have a deep philosophical or moral objection to this policy that would require him to undermine it, he is ethically obligated to execute it.
Furthermore, no one (and I guarantee Pompeo is chief among them) believes the Taliban is negotiating in what WE would consider good faith. For a really interesting take on how Afghan cultural conceptions of honor are radically different than those of the West, I recommend William Dalrymple's The Return of a King. The fact is that we cannot "win" in Afghanistan because we have no defined objective. We cannot create a stable, trustworthy allied liberal government for the country. Maybe the Afghans can get there eventually (I hope so), but they have to do it on their own terms.
Furthermore, I suspect part of the agenda is to get US troops out of Afghanistan so we have more military resources available for what certain members of this administration are clearly pushing for: war with Iran. A deal with the Taliban could also end up creating pressure on Iran's eastern border as refugees flee the inevitable expanding civil war in Afghanistan.
1
Mr. Stephens won't but must acknowledge that catastrophe befell Afghanistan in the late 1970s in the form of "the force for good" which with the help ( for a hefty bribe) of Pakistan started a process of wanton destruction of Afghanistan and that it has continued without abatement until now. Afghanistan has no hope for recovery in the foreseeable future.
Key phrase, "If Pompeo has a sense of honor..."
12
"...a complete withdrawal of America’s 14,000 troops from Afghanistan within 14 months — that is, by October 2020..."
Was there ever in US history a more blatant and disturbing case of an American President making military strategy to suit his political calendar needs?
17
And, I don't hear the Democratic candidates discussing this - or any foreign policy, other than Russia, and not even much of that unless it's connected to the elections, past and future. What is transpiring in Afghanistan is terrible! Those of us who don't skip the front section of the Times and rush to Politics, know this. Bernie Sanders probably thinks this agreement is great - he's all for getting out of foreign entanglements. Abandoning these people at this point would be horrible. I hope some of the media big shots - Anderson, Rachel Maddow, etc. - speak up. I'm sure PBS will, but that's not enough.
4
So what you're saying is that Trump is very close to "winning" the war in Afghanistan. That is what Pompeo, Trump and Fox will say and what many will believe.
Of course we never should have been there. The Taliban and Afghanistan are the same. Americans will never understand that not everyone wants to be like us.
5
Pompeo and honor are two words that should never be used in the same sentence!
12
It's already a catastrophe there. We never learn from history, do we?
1
Glad for Stephens' weighing in against Afghanistan withdrawal. It's quite discouraging when both the right and the left have coalesced around abandoning 18 million Afghan women and girls to the Taliban. Some things worth doing take a long time and are not cost-free. Having invaded and partially Westernized Afghanistan, not doing a cut and run and leaving millions to become slaves...is one of those things.
3
Thank the US Supreme court for letting my vote not count when W got in, and then a broke the middle east with the Neo Con's help. All that chaos lead to Trump being elected by loosing the plurality by 3 million votes. Dis enfranchised again. I should write a sad song and would if it did not scare me mute; the mess these GOP people have forced on all of us.
Oh 14 dead troops is sad. How many people have died in the lands directly effected by these current wars? or Viet Nam or Korea or....
4
I can’t help but laugh when a liberal points out the hypocrisy of Republicans. That’s the definition of a Republican.
3
@Paul Kucharski Stephens is a never Trump conservative, not a liberal.
1
Please tell us all. What should be done? What is it we should be doing that we are not?
After reading the Pompeo piece in the New Yorker- I'm surprised Trump hasn't already sent him to "Cabinet Purgatory."
Mike Pompeo is a phony- and the only real thing about him is that he doesn't have any money!
4
Pompeo knows well what will happen to the Afghanis under the Taliban. This group is beyond duplicitous; it is brutal and lethal. The US finds itself in a Catch 22. Yes, we are tired; we are weary of this endless war which has killed or injured for life too many young men and women in uniform. We, I, want out. But then again what about the Afghan people caught in the endless cycle and circle of abuse and exploitation...especially the women? Let there be no doubt that Pompeo is bowing before his boss who desperately seeks a “win.” But as usual, the end does not and will not justify the means. Why should Trump care about these Muslims? Like desperate Central Americans, in his mind they are disposable for his self-glorification.
3
So Bret, I read your article, lots of warnings but hey if you were president what’s your solution. Would love to hear about it.
1
Pompeo is the worst of a cabinet of loyalists who are either incompetent or too scared to speak truth to the increasingly autocratic dotard in the Oval Office. As Trump's most senior diplomat in charge of critically important negotiations with the Taliban, Pompeo appears willing to throw Afghanistan under the bus and risk our own national security for a U.S. troop withdrawal "nakedly dictated by the electoral needs of a president." The Taliban will break whatever promises they have made as soon as we depart, overthrowing the Afghan government and becoming part of a reborn ISIS caliphate. Those who think otherwise have scrambled eggs in his MAGA-hatted brains.
4
The only strategy at play here is political, with any sensible democratic candidate forced now to argue for staying—and fallen straight into trump’s trap. And the victims of our President’s craven trump u. con aren’t saps. They fell to a master.
I don't understand how every elected republican has completely abdicated every policy position they have ever had for this criminal, corrupt administration. Are they all being blackmailed by Trump or are they all part of the foreign conspiracy to weak the US? How is it possible that not a single republican is willing to stand up to this administration?
There has got to be more to do this.
4
I hate when people use the word ISLAM in association with war and destruction. There are as many Islamists as Christians 1 billion each. Trump has done more to light a fire next to a bomb as any president in living memory. He Insults Islam any time he talks or does anything in Middle East. It truly shocks me. However in his defense I wonder how much time does he spend thinking deeply about these issues including Afghanistan. A total pull-out doesn't seem smart. How will we know what is being brewed over there.
It is obvious to everyone what the problem in the middle east is.Please get to work on the main problem.
1
The people of Afghanistan, human beings, have endured horror for decades. The United States is not there to help or assist. We are there to steal. Like all of trump's endeavors, he sees money. Like Cheney before him, they view the population of the Middle East as animals. They are making a deal without the democratically lead government because they are making a deal that will include raping Afghanistan of it's vast rare minerals and other resources. When a mobster makes a deal, he makes it with other mobsters. Perhaps my view here is naive but I think not. Pompeo has adopted the 'boss's' style of slaughter and grab. I am embarrassed by this administration as are many others. Where are our heroes? Not in the White House which is now 'nasty'.
1
Of course, let’s trust the Taliban and Al Qaeda, because they’re so trustworthy. No verification is necessary, like that awful, really bad, mullti-country JCPOA deal with Iran. I’m reminded of Mad Magazine’s Spy vs. Spy: Al Qaeda is gaming the Taliban gaming Pompeo who thinks he’s gaming the Taliban. We won’t know who’s wearing the black hat until one party breaks the agreement. This time it probably won’t be the party that broke with the JCPOA, and the consequences for citizens of both countries may be immediate.
Wow, October 2020 - why is that date significant?
3
Anyone in this admin.. to use a word such as “honor” is nonexistent. Honor indeed. They all sold their souls to the devil.
2
Ignoring red flashing lights has a long tail of consequence.
Chock it all up to "winning" the cold war. And a couple of box cutter knives.
Let's all be honest with ourselves--our country is in a total freefall----policies/strategies/whatever you want to call them come and go based on what side of the tanning bed Trump wakes up on. If there was one managerial principle I learned in my career is that "coherence" and "continuity" are fundamental to a well run company---A chaos presidency, as Jeb Bush put it, never ends well.
1
I hope the negotiators have studied the 1842 retreat from Kabul, where the British tried to negotiate a withdrawal and got massacred.
2
Bret, good points - BUT....what about the women in Afghanistan? You don’t seem concerned about them, but I sure am. The Taliban will (trust me) start beheading them in the public square again, putting them in Handmaid’s Tale status, total subjugation. They can’t do anything else because they hate women so totally - it would be anathema for them to do anything else. As a western women, my heart goes out to the women there, who will sacrificial lambs for Trump’s manic and insane ego.
@Citizen of the Earth Trump's administration is waging war against American women. You can't possibly believe that the plight of women in Afghanistan would have even crossed their small, addled minds.
1
@Citizen of the Earth-please re-read the end of paragraph 5.
"And it’s also all that will stand between the Taliban’s murderous misogyny and Afghanistan’s 18 million vulnerable women."
Orwell got it right:
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- forever."
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
2
Basta! Neocon chickenhawks like Stephens are the reason we got into the disastrous never-ending wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they have been foaming at the mouth to attack Iran as well. Leaving Afghanistan is long past due--have Stephens and his neo-con buddies ever figured out that the horrific violence in places like Iraq and Afghanistan (and the rise of groups like ISIS) are caused by our heavy-handed presence, and not our absence. Or, as is more likely, they know this, but simply don't care. Sacrificing U.S. troops, tax dollars, and local civilians all in the name of their empire. On this one issue, Trump is right, we need to get our military out of these countries.
1
I feel bad for the Afghan women.
What if that were our mothers, sisters, wives, daughters.
1
America did exactly the same thing in Vietnam. God help any country America decides to “rescue”.
1
Just 14 fatalities in 2018. One is one to many.
1
Bret - So, what is your plan for Afghanistan? Shall we remain for a century? Two? More? Pompeo’s hypocrisy is not the issue here. That’s a given. It’s just a deflection from the reality that Afghanistan remains the graveyard of empires.
Conservatives care about power and power only. They seem to prefer a simple plan and it’s working. Too bad their plan facilitates the goal of V. Putin above those of the American people.
2
Why on earth are these people even IN public service?
Our congresspeople spend five hours of every day raising money for their next elections—which is five hours a day they are not doing anything for the people they were elected to serve in the first place. Our president started campaigning for reelection virtually days after his inauguration. And he and his assorted sycophants have geared everything they have said and done ever since to his personal glory and reelectibility—with nary a thought to public policy, global stability or the common good. And to the extent they aren’t fawning at his feet, ensuring his reelection or otherwise burnishing this president’s public image, the GOP is battening down the hatches of their own power, enacting legislation and confirming judges who will keep them in office regardless the will of the majority and reallocating the country’s wealth to themselves and their donors.
So is it that simple? Is public service now no more than a platform for power, glory and raw greed—with nothing “public” or “service” about it? Maybe our country IS ripe for revolution, as some have suggested. And this greedy, preening president, the sycophants who serve him (and him alone) and the party of smirking white men who ensure both his and their wealth and power? If they have no more vision than the next election, no more concerns than their own, maybe they will deserve what they get from the people to whom they toss cake crumbs.
2
Regan left, Clinton left and Bush left and we returned each time to manage the chaos and terrorism and left. Now we leave again. If you know the history of Afghanistan, you know, Pakistan/Taliban wants to own the country to buffer it from Iran as it fights India. The Taliban is proven to be a hostile player and the Haqqanis are the worst of the worst terrorists. But clearly, we don't care, again. We will be back. This diplomacy is absurd.
1
How would keeping US troops in Afghanistan for another year -- or four, or eight -- change conditions on the ground there significantly? The measure of failure is not only the loss of American and Afghani lives, but the loss of American treasure to war spending and its massive accompanying corruption.
Bugging out undoubtedly creates serious problems, but staying any longer offers the most dubious possible "solutions."
Seventeen years of idiotic foreign policy should be a sufficiency.
Good points, but what’s your alternative plan? Stay there forever? And by the way, 14 families are probably quite hurt by your statement that “just” 14 service members were killed. That’s 14 too many.
1
So 18 accidental deaths are an acceptable level in Afghanistan as it's really training? Afghanistan is a black hole of US waste. Contractors, Civilians and Military sitting in bases on the clock for months doing "Make Work".
2
Hypocrisy?
No, Pompeo is a Republican.
The most important thing in the world to a Republican, is POWER.
Pompeo holds a very important position of POWER, and he has absolutely no intention of relinquishing that position.
The "Prime Directive" for the Republican-Right-Wing-Network, is gaining and maintaining POWER.
They believe that if they are not in charge, if they are not in complete control, then it doesn't count.
When they preach to their base to "take back our country", it's because they don't believe that America is the real America, if they're not in control.
They have long derided their opponents as not being "real" Americans, especially if they're "urban" or "coastal".
So you see, Pompeo is not a hypocrite.
He is being true to his Republican beliefs.
1
You cannot be a competent secretary of state and a sycophant to Criminal Trump at the same time - the skill sets are mutually exclusive.
4
The government in Afghanistan is incredibly corrupt and always will be - hundreds of millions of US aid has gone into the bank accounts of government and tribal leaders.
Meanwhile, the Taliban continue harvesting the largest crop of poopy in the world producing record opium revenues last year estimated at $1 billion. They are a terrorist organization and will continue to undermine any efforts towards peace. The US has been the laughingstock of the world spending over a trillion dollars in a losing ‘war’ - it’s been a travesty. We’ve accomplished nothing there - nothing. It’s a veritable wasteland we need to completely extract ourselves from. Forever!!
@JMS We have actually accomplished quite a bit, or more accurately helped the Afghan people to accomplish a lot. The country now has a constitution and a Parliament, first in their history, and women make up 25% of Parliament, higher than our Congress. By 2017, 11 million students were attending school, with 40% of those students being female. The travesty will be the undoing of those important gains when we precipitously leave to provide Trump a dubious accomplishment for his reelection campaign.
1
@MD
How about the 100+ high schools in New York City where the graduation rates are below 50%.
Start fixing America first - we have $22 trillion of debt - $1 trillion went to the wasteland called Afghanistan.
We can’t fix the world’s problems - we’re going broke.
You don’t care about our children’s future do you?
@MD
...not to mention 2,372 American deaths - I lived through Vietnam - this war was no better - a complete, and I mean a complete waste of lives and money.
America will bargaining with the wrong entity - the Taliban. This diplomacy is just a farce.The Taliban are toothless and almost extinct. Just like we bargained with a wrong, bombastic dictator, Saddam Hussein. We ended in a wrong war, the deadly repercussions which seem to have no end. A new war in Afghanistan? Soon Russia and China will follow and perhaps the rise of ISIS again. There would be no winner in this war including us. But the only winner? The industrial war complex and their stooges like Pompeo.
Pompeo the pompous? This deal with the Taliban will cause Afghan women so much suffering. In all the years the US has been in Afghanistan, the culture there has not changed when it comes to the place women have in society. And Afghani culture is quite perverse with the Pashtun treatment of young boys as sexual objects and the brutality sanctioned towards women. The US cannot remain in perpetual war however. But trusting the Taliban which continues to kill civilians and the resurgence of ISIS predicts no peace for Afghanistan when the US pulls out. And the poppy trade is still so strong that corruption will continue unabated.
To be fair, Afghanistan is a total disaster. both our political and military systems have failed miserably. Anyone who thinks it can be salvaged is in total delusion. Ask the Russians. Of course we will never accept this and continue to knock our heads against the wall. Even given this Pompeo is a disgrace. As a fellow West Point graduate I am ashamed. He is the poster child on why we should change the academies to "finishing schools" for each services' new officers and stop the huge waste of money of turning our college graduates who turn into people like Pompeo. His type is much too common.
287
@Jeffrey Tierney My thoughts precisely.
14
@Jeffrey Tierney
Utter scurrilous nonsense.
To question a man's honor simply because he takes a position you don't share. I'm a Georgetown graduate, not a Pointer. But I served with some in Vietnam and found them all to be competent, self- effacing, straight forward, honorable men. I have the same impression of Pompeo.
1
@Tombs69, there is a record concerning Pompeo which shows he is hardly honorable. He teamed up with the Arkansas senator to write a letter to the Iranian leadership trying to undermine the Iranian nuclear deal when Obama was president. This was a deal that had been successful until Trump pulled the U.S. out of it. Pompeo is a man who merely seeks power for power sake. Any statement of principles he may proclaim at a given moment are merely expedient measures.
As for the others you served with in Vietnam, they probably do for the most part possess the qualities you ascribe to them but not Pompeo. But that is no reason to scrap West Point.
56
The Taliban and ISIS are already killing people to establish their dominance in Afghanistan, even before we pull out. What a waste of life our invasion has brought. We’ve gained nothing and learned nothing, it is depressing and demoralizing. Pompeo was supposed to be the grownup in the room, but is just another war hawk with eyes on an Iran ‘adventure’ before this administration is done. The only smart thing he’s doing is not letting anyone in the White House see his plans. What a disastrous waste of nations and lives.
159
@Jsbliv. Rome, Alexander the Great, the Ottoman empire, Great Britain and the USSR all failed in their attempts to get a foothold in Afghanistan. That genius, GWB, thought "American exceptionalism" would make a difference.
21
@Jsbliv Who thought that Pompeo was the adult in the room? He is just another von Ribbentrop.
8
“When you are where you aren’t wanted, and don’t have the strength to fight, you have to leave.”
This is was what Winston Churchill said about the British withdrawal from India in 1947. Any thinking person could see what this would lead to. Nehru and Gandhi might have been great men, and suitable leaders for great nations, but out in the country it was very different. Hundreds of thousands of people were murdered by political and religious gangs.
It didn’t really matter that Britain had massive armed forces and would soon have the atomic bomb: “strength” must be measured by the task at hand. Nor did the British people believe that holding on to India was worth the effort. It was time to go.
There will be death in Afghanistan, sure enough. But there are larger forces at play here, which Mr. Stephens disingenuously pretends not to see.
I don't often agree with Mr. Stephens, but his arguments against negotiation with only the Taliban about our withdrawal of all troops from Afghanistan makes a good deal of sense.
1
A brilliant political move by Pompeo and Trump, even if this will not be good for America in the long run. End the US troop presence a month before the 2020 election and deal with the obvious refugee crisis after the election. If Trump loses, the Democratic President will be stuck dealing with the refugees. If Trump wins, he can refuse to give them asylum (unless they are white or Christian).
It certainly does seem that the plan is to cut and run. Certainly you cannot create a peace deal if the elected government is not even part of the deal. The picture of the American helicopter leaving the embassy and countless betrayals behind easily pops into mind.
1
Give up and bail out. It worked in Viet Nam.
1
Conservatives like to leave out the fact that the 2011 troop withdrawal from Iraq was a fulfillment of an agreement that was signed by George Bush three years earlier.
3
Whatever happened to the "separation of church and state"?
Now we witness a religious extremist in charge of US foreign policy.
The United States of America needs to choose between religious texts and secular law.
5
I love the detachment of the columnist sitting comfortably at his desk. “Just 14 deaths” last year. Stephens may not have written that so glibly if his son or daughter were one of the 14. Why, we might lose more than that in combat training, as though that mitigates the senseless loss of our young GIs. The fact is we don’t know yet what the American policy is for Afghanistan, as Sec. Pompeo has very smartly kept it secretive. My sense is that we are going to keep a small force there to monitor events going forward. Perhaps the president heeded what Putin whispered in his ear — that Afghanistan is a sink hole, an abyss with no bottom. Even the Russians who do not adhere to as strict a military code as we concluded they could not achieve anything there and marched their thousands of troops home, sparing Russian mothers and fathers the deaths of their children. After 18 years, more than 2,000 Americans dead and over 20,000 wounded, I think Pompeo has the right to change his mind, Mr. Stephens. It’s long overdue for America to withdraw from these foreign entanglements and unnecessary sacrifice of American lives. You’d think Vietnam would have been a lesson for the ages.
5
This is an all encompassing article that puts into perspective the self defeating behavior of our very confused country.
1
If this is the deal that Trump/Pompeo negotiate with troops in country, then the Iran nuclear deal look brilliant in comparison.
1
Like everything else in the Trump regime, “policy” is set by what’s good for Donald Trump, not what’s beneficial for our country or any other countries. Party before country is appalling but now it’s even worse. It’s Trump, “the chosen one,” who comes first. I’d say Pompeo should be ashamed but it has become quite clear that none of the Republicans can feel shame. It is an emotion that has been lost to them.
7
As a former State Dept diplomat who worked on Afghanistan for years during the Soviet occupation period, take my word that a comprehensive "solution" is a chimera. One has to weigh the tradeoffs: a fig leaf settlement that finally gets us out and cuts down the financial burden vs remaining in a costly, hopeless "forever war." The U.S. cannot be the guarantor of human rights everywhere. It would bankrupt us. The ideal outcome would be an internal balance of power arrangement sorted out by the Afghans themselves based on ethnic, religious and regional equities through a loya jirga mediated by Muslim nations and the U.N.
1
It is always about the tactics and never about the philosophy. Why is it that generations of young Iraqi and Afghani men sign on to fight with ISIS, the Taliban, and Al Qaeda? Our troops and bombs are not winning the war of ideas and therefore the fighting will be endless.
Do we really need to control Afghan territory to effectively oppose global jihad? Their philosophy thrives on war but will die with time when it fails to serve the needs of their people. This is another lesson of Vietnam, now a vacation destination for Americans.
1
Unfortunately, Pompeo, along with all the GOP who have fallen in line with trump, have no sense of honor or dignity. They only crave raw political power and are willing to sacrifice all credibility in the service of attaining it.
7
If Pompeo has a sense of honor? He doesn't or he wouldn't be working for Trump.
9
Radical extremists will be back in both Afghanistan and Iraq. George Bush's wars of choice will have been in vain. What a disaster, especially for the thousands of families whose members were killed or permanently damaged.
American foreign policy based on periodic demonstrations of military might has caused severe damage to the US and the world. Time for an about face.
3
No honor?
No shame?
What an accurate description of the current GOP.
6
Why would the Taliban want to negotiate with us? They whipped us in Afghanistan over a decade ago. They are just playing games with us. The military history of the United States since the Second World War is a long string of catastrophes save the atrocities of invading tiny Grenada and Panama.
4
The Don’s Yes Man must be desperate for attention to follow executive orders that destroy the US. No real backbone but more chameleon like.
3
We've seen this before: unprincipled, lying President wanting to claim success; negotiations with enemy but excluding ally; deal with hollow guarantees; American exit; bloodbath and betrayal.
April 1975: Nixon, Kissinger, Vietnam. The history probably escapes Trump who recalls only that "I was never a fan of that war."
4
Republican Administrations seem always to sell out U.S. Allies. Nixon and Ford abandoned the South Vietnamese. George H.W. Bush abandoned the Kurds. George W. Bush abandoned them a second time. Trump abandoned our Allies in Syria and, of course, the Kurds. Now Trump will abandon our Allies in Afghanistan. NATO is next if there is a second Trump Administration.
Moreover, under Trump we block the immigration to the U.S. of any of those Afgans and Allies who helped the U.S.
America has become a dishonorable country over the past half century. And Trump is that face of that dishonor.
3
Trump will crow about ending the war in Afghanistan.
The next President will have to address the problem of the upsurge in global terrorism that flows out of Afghanistan.
The GOP will then argue that the terrorism restarted because a Democrat was elected.
2
I’m disgusted by endless war. But we need to recognize
the Taliban cannot be trusted.
1
Sense of shame?If anyone had a sense of shame they would not be a member of the Trump administration.
On another front maybe if we had not murdered a large group of haqqani family members attending a wedding(?) they would not be our enemy.
2
The Afghan war was a mistake and a disaster from day one. The sooner we get all of our troops out of there the better. Brett Stephens and all the other war mongers are wrong, wrong, wrong.
1
For all their complaints that Mr. Trump is irresponsible, unstable, an unsteady hand on the foreign policy tiller, Democrats can't stand seeing him wind down U.S. involvement in any foreign wars, they say he's "playing politics". Whether he is or not, most Americans see ending U.S. military involvement anywhere as a good idea. Democrats end up sounding like interventionist warmongers. Let's be plain about it, Democrats dislike anything Mr. Trump does.
Because he doesn’t do anything right. This won’t end well either.
1
"If Pompeo has a sense of honor, he might consider resigning rather than fathering the catastrophe that may soon befall Afghanistan."
If Pompeo had any sense of honor, he would never have accepted a role in the most cynical, dishonest, unpatriotic administration in our nation's history. He obviously has no understanding or respect for the notions of honor, integrity, or patriotism. Regardless of what Pompeo suggests for the future of Afghanistan, he has proven his complete lack of character to the American public.
4
As reported in the Times "The Rapture and the Real World: Mike Pompeo Blends Beliefs and Policy", I'm afraid Pompeo's approach may be consistent with believing we are in the 'end of times.' Clearly, long term strategy is out the window, and he likely believes Trump's ascendency is part of a divine plan.
1
Get all troops out now. It’s that simple. We should never have been there. We have caused far far more harm than good, bombing wedding parties, and thousands of civilians. And all we’re doing now is creating more terrorists by continuing our presence.
Bret you are not wrong. But the idea of an "American presence" in an area of the world with little to no historical or intellectual interest in democracy, to teach them and convert them, has not worked. That's why the Taliban retains strength. The cultural divergence is too great.
America's greatest strength is its example and Trump has destroyed that. We're hosed.
It will take 2 generation of exemplar US leadership to regain our previous position, if possible at all. And global climate change plays a much bigger hand than any ideological position on governance.
The Great Exodus is only just beginning.
3
Is it the bloodbath already in Afghanistan? How much territory the internationally recognized Government controls? Don't civilians get killed every day, not just by Taliban but by Americans and their Allies? Yeah, maybe 14 Americans killed is small sacrifices (although I am not sure their families agree), but what about Afghan civilians? It their number a is not a concern at all? What does the author propose? To stay there and watch how Afghan civilians got slaughtered? It is a horrible situation that doesn't have good or even better resolution. That is why to start wars is really really bad idea. I am wondering if the author admits it is now.
Then what, Mr. Stephens, is your definition of success in Afghanistan? The status quo? The Taliban aren't going away and the corrupt Afghan government's influence carries no farther than the suburbs of Kabul. The Afghan people may not like the Taliban, but they have no faith in US-backed leaders in Kabul to govern effectively. US casualties may be relatively few, but what's the cost for soldiers' families, in PTSD and other problems for those deployed?
Like Ho and his forces in Vietnam, the Taliban will never give up. If our strategy for saving that country and protecting our security interests is force of arms, logic dictates we go in full-bore and destroy them. Withdrawing our troops has a potential downside, but the status quo is a pathetic response that commits US blood and treasure for decades to come.
3
@Ray C
You make some good points but I'm not sure if your analogy to Viet Nam holds. The Viet Cong had far more support among the general population of Viet Nam than the Taliban appears to have among Afghanistan's populace.
Take the troops our of Afghanistan. Then seize Greenland. I don't think the Danish military would be able to put up much resistance. Then put a three-prong pincer attack in Canada and seize it. Neither Canada nor the Commonwealth has the resources to stop us. Meanwhile build the mother of all walls at US/Mexico border: 200 feet tall and wide and strong enough to deploy tanks along it. Make the south face out of the most toxic radioactive waste materials we have. Then dig a 1/2 mile wide moat that separates the wall from Mexico, and populate it salt water crocs and sharks. We can then declare ourselves the continent of the USA and appoint Trump as emperor. Hail Trump!
1
Unfortunately, we have no plan when we are involving to Afghanistan and Iraq.
It was reaction to 9/11 rage, we really didn't think thorough.
Where we caught 9?11 masterminds, Pakistan, Philippines etc.
American situation in Middle east and particularly in Afghanistan reminds me a diorama about La brea tarpit.
La brea Tarpits are in down town LA. Thousands years ago, Animals passing through this place get trapped its sticky and deep dense tar and slowly succumb to their death.
Predator animals like Saber tooth tigers saw dying animals in agony and jump over them but they also succumb to their death, because tar sticks them too.
Bret's concerns are legitimate, but Afganistan was a CIA and KGB war lab, They develop the most malignant tools there, extremist terrorist guerilla warfare. If anyone remembers Regan time we call these terrorist freedom fighters, I remember news pieces from TV, stitching their foot cut without any sterility or analgesics, or hammering a artillery shell in to the howitzer with stone. These unbelievably wild acts , how KGB and CIA engineered this scourge.
Afghanistan was a country in early 1970's promising to be good nation.
But Cold war's giants turned it a biological warfare laboratory wasteland.
So Brets' all concerns are right and just but there is price we are going to pay what we did Afghanistan since 1979.
1
Conservatives disdain "nation-building" because it sounds like social work and downplays the macho act of killing people. Liberals are uneasy with it because it smacks of neo-colonialism and foreign adventurism. But nation-building is exactly what we needed to do in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now in Central America. After 18 years, 25,000 American casualties, and nearly $1 trillion spent we should be leaving Afghanistan with a relatively stable secular government and a society immune to terrorist takeover. If we had been honest with ourselves about what was needed from the outset, we might have been able to accomplish it.
3
Pompeo was the Congressperson for MY district. He is a true believer, in himself. A very dangerous person, an intelligent, bible thumping, self serving, amoral “ conservative “. IF Trump actually is still in the Oval Office by 2020, this is all about re-election. But, HE is deteriorating on a daily basis. Pompeo will be the GOP nominee, or at least the VP choice. Goodbye, Pence.
Seriously.
3
After learning more about Pompeo, especially through the excellent investigative reporting of the New Yorker, I am reminded again of the one positive thing the Trump administration has managed to accomplish: the hypocrisy of the Evangelicals, among them Pompeo, is now out there for all who want to see can see. That phony group of Holier-than-thou creeps are ruining this country and probably most of the rest of the free world all in the name of God. I am willing to listen to both sides, but when a guy like Pompeo likens a man like President Obama to something like the anti-Christ, I stop listening.
1
We betrayed France in 1940, South Vietnam in 1975, and the Kurds too many times to count.
Now we are about to betray Afghanistan, sneaking around behind its government's back like Chamberlain at Munich, to hand it over to its enemies.
1
The obvious question for Bret is, who's volunteering for Afghanistan?
Would that be his kids and his fellow travellers' kids? And how about his taxes? Are we allowed to raise those to pay for it? No? Cut "entitlements" instead?
And speaking of "honor".... How does the invasion of Iraq rate on that scale?
Sounds like the US troop withdrawal from Viet Nam. That went well.
1
I agree. After decades of experiences with Taliban, AQ, and ISIS, we should perfectly understand their core values. They will not relinquish their goals. They will continue to strive to create the Caliphate. They believe the infidels will never win because Allah is against infidels.
Leaving them all alone again is not an option. Last time we left them to their devices they destroyed ancient rock carvings that they thought were blasphemous and then launched 911. They will do this again and more. They may even tell us in advance that they are going to do it. That is reality, and it is plainly in view for all to see.
So in other words after spending nearly a trillion dollars in taxpayer money, 2,372 U.S. military deaths and 20,329 wounded in the War in Afghanistan Pompeo has Afghanistan going back to square one, in the hands of the Taliban. This is what Republicans do.
1
If I hear Brett, any family member of his, anyone from his prep school or anyone he actually knows has served in Afghanistan than I might take him seriously on staying in Afghanistan. The loss of “only 14” Americans in 2018 is no measure of the human pain and sacrifice this war has taken out of both sides. Tell that to the widows, widowers, fatherless children, gold star parents, amputees, the disabled, families of the disabled former breadwinner, sufferers of PTSD, and dead Afghani fighters and Afghani civilians year after year for 14 years.
You say we should not pull out now then but there should be some answer as to when we should. You can’t be suggesting we wait until they decide to treat their women humanely or until we think that there is no way some extreme Islamic group could ever take over because neither of those things will will happen in the near or distant future.
1
Greenland might not be for sale for Mr. Trump, but maybe Afghanistan is?
You're assuming that this guy has any sense of "honor". That would be a no. Anyone associated with this circus left their "honor" at the door a long time ago.
Pompus, waiting for his 'rapture'. No time for intelligence regarding any of our international relationships. He is servant to Trump and toes the line so he doesn't go the way of others who dared to say something relevant.
Conservatives approve of this behavior and enable it. It seems as if 'evolution' bypassed them. This leaves us in a deep hole and the risk increases each day. We see our POTUS disintegrating before our eyes. No adults in the loop anywhere.
The Taliban will honor no agreements so what's the point? This always leads me to comparing our existing govt to the Taliban. Amoral and ruthless has a new meaning. Trumpism.
I hate to have to agree with Stephens, but his point is simply that once you jump on the tiger, getting off is a lot harder than it looks. Especially when you’re looking at the election, not at the eighteen million women you’re about to sell out.
I’d add two things, the first of which is that like it or lump it, we have taken on responsibilities around the world. And certain lefties ought to be a lot more concerned about why they find themselve agreeing with Trump’s isolationism. Especially when I have the ugly suspicion that you’re feel differently about a country of white people.
Invading Iraq was deranged, no question. Nation-building? Yikes. But these low-level, brushfire semi-wars, these police actions...well, we may just be stuck with them.
Trump is a modern political Typhoid Mary. He contaminates everyone near him. How many of his staff have left in disgrace? How many of his associates are in jail or pending trial? He will leave the rest of what was the United States in the same debilitated condition.
The Taliban and Al Qaeda are both vestiges of an ill conceived Reagan era policy to recklessly fund the Mujahedeen against the Soviets.
A few ways to look at this despite the irony that we should now concede ground to them again:
1. Just view this as the parents support for an errant child ?
2. Maybe Imran Khan cut a deal with the Trump administration that he is willing to sell Pakistan to the United States if it supports a Taliban government in Afghanistan.
3. Could not get Greenland but will get Pakistan.
4. Cold war about to break out again and the US wants to build a buffer zone in Afghanistan and Pakistan
5. A crude way to send a signal to China that we are willing to back murderous regimes in the area
6. Mohammed Bin Salman made a phone call (like the one by Wayne LaPierre) and told Trump to behave (support Taliban) or else ..?
7. A beautiful and well thought strategy that allows us to get away from a troubled zone in Asia and instead focus on ... Haiti and Mexico ?
When you have a vagabond for a President, anything is possible including a randomly executed sensible policy.
This is a guy who not only graduated from West Point but was FIRST in his class. Know what it is to be first in class at the Point???
So now where is the Honor he was to bear? Honor? not here in this misbegotten presidency.
Or, as the SAYING GOES; THERE IS NO HONOR AMONG THIEVES.
2
feel sorry for all those folks who made the mistake of trusting the us. Seems we actually can not be trusted
1
This president has made it his signature approach by saying what is seen as politically incorrect comments and insulting allies. For a change, why won’t he do this for an actual, national security reason?
Forget peace talks with the Taliban. It, (along with other extremist terrorists) is a farm team; a AAA contender. Saudi Arabia, Iran, and maybe Pakistan, need to be at a table. We moderate. Stop this Sunni-Shia divide, stop funding, stop peddling religious interpretations that, like the Bible, can have many interpretations.
We, the West, may have many less than stellar qualities, but you can’t use us for some things and then make us the boogie man for others. This president needs to ...tweet..some bald truths to Saudi Arabia and it’s Wahhabism- aka, politically incorrectness. Again, if we leave Afghanistan, we leave all other countries supporting extremism- and send all their students home, cut off all air travel, trade....
Some may be tired of an endless war. I’m tired of endless appeasement.
There'll never be an absolutely perfect time to leave in which "all will be peace and light".
It should be as soon as possible so they can get about settling their own affairs, especially if it's going to be in messy, murderous ways. Think about when your kids were having a huge fight in their bedroom and you left the door closed.
Harold MacMillian related how as the British Foreign Secretary in the 50's he was concerned about letting one of Britain's colonies go on it's own. So he interviewed its most senior civil servant with a checklist. I'll paraphrase it.
Can they handle schools? Police? Sanitation? Transportation? Civil disturbance? Etc.
Civil servant's uniform responses: "of course not; don't be silly; that's absurd."
MacMillian: "then how in good conscience can we let them go now?"
Civil servant, "Because as long as we stay, we'll have to keep their best men jailed because they're pushing us to leave; they'll always be looking to us to run and fix things and settle their internal disputes; and they'll always blame us when things go wrong, and rightly so, because we're in charge and they're not. And remember, we too had our War of the Roses and such."
Britain and France considered intervening militarily in our Civil War to stop it. Wisely they didn't.
Yes, Pompeo is a boot licking hypocrite, but why single him out? He’s no different than all the other Trump appointees and GOP Senators and Representatives that do Liar#1’s bidding wherever it may take them because for all their talk about freedom and independence and individual excellence, they are soulless lackeys. As far as getting out of Afghanistan is concerned, the question is: if now now, when? If the answer is when the Afghan government is strong enough to defend itself against those who would attack it. Well, that may be the same as saying never. Douglas MacArthur warned about getting involved in land wars in Asia, and in 2011 Defense Secretary Robert Gates echoed his words. At some point, somebody has to say, “Now I understand.” Yes, Trump and Pompeo may have us exiting for all the wrong reasons, but it’s still possible it’s the right thing to do.
Sad thing is, as the US fights the Taliban,
China extracts millions of dollars worth of minerals from Afghanistan.
Mike Pompeo is the guy at the bowling alley yelling at kids at a birthday party about distracting him from practicing for “league play”. Yet somehow here we are with him as our top “diplomat”. He should resign m, as you say, but for being a ruinously incompetent administrator that has wrecked the Department of State.
Bret Stephens’ partisan dishonesty in this column is nothing short of breathtaking. Following Party diktat, he blames Obama for the Cheney-Bush disaster in Iraq and the rise of ISIS, ignoring what those of is who engage with news daily, and, unlike Republicans, remember what we read, that ISIS was the result of Cheney-Bush’s bungled invasion of Iraq and the resulting chaos and power vacuum. If Obama had not followed the Cheney-Bush timeline to withdraw, Stephens and his comrades would still be attacking him for that.
Those of is who engage with facts also know that, historically, bugging “out of its international commitments, squandered the sacrifices of American troops for the immediate political benefit of a sitting president” (Vietnam, anyone?) is a Republican tactic, as is starting wars to deflect from Republican scandals or increase reelection chances (Granada, Panama, Somalia, just to name a few).
If Stephens had a sense of shame, he might consider resigning rather than continuing to play a reasonable commenter while in reality just acting as a mouthpiece for his Republican Party.
1
Pompeo, like many others in the Trump administration, has no shame, no honor, no remorse and no ethics.
Retreat from Vietnam.
Retreat from Afghanistan.
Retreat from Iraq.
All missions not accomplished.
Bravo.
2
Mr. Stephens, please keep this sentiment (and your many other smart critiques of the Trump administration) in mind when you inevitably find yourself writing a column about expanded social services or more equitable tax schedules just before the 2020 election. In that situation, ask yourself what's worse: lower income and retired people receiving more support from the wealth-generating machine that they built and currently operate, or a government that harms the economy, the international theater, and the social fabric of our nation?
4
Mr. Stephens clearly does not know the meaning of the word "likelihood". The links is the article point to other articles that discuss the raw numbers of deaths in combat and in training. The fact that more members of the armed services die in training than in combat does not make them "far more likely" to die while engaged in the former.
In 2016, 611 people were murdered in Canada while only 36 were murdered in Newark, NJ. Would Mr. Stephens argue that one is "far more likely" to be murdered while visiting Canada than while visiting Newark? At minimum, the military fatalities must be divided by person-hours engaged in training and in combat activities before any meaningful comparison can be made. Remember, there are only 14,000 troops in Afghanistan and over 1,000,000 active duty personnel in the US military. I think that, in the end, one will discover that combat is a tad more dangerous than training.
Stay away from numbers, Mr. Stephens, They are not your forte. Don't feel too bad. Most Americans are innumerate.
P. S. I read you faithfully!
I have to take issue with Mr. Stephens's simplistic view of Obama's withdrawal in Iraq.
Obama withdrew forces there according a plan first set by the Bush administration. By then, we had spent billions of dollars training Iraqi troops to be part of a unified national army.
Unfortunately, the Shia majority in Iraq kept up a campaign of aggression and murder of sunnis. This precipitated al queda in Syria to morph into ISIS, a Sunni organization.
When America withdrew from Iraq, ISIS was in its infancy and was not perceived as a threat to Iraqi sovereignty - not just by Obama but career US military and intelligence officials.
When ISIS did enter Iraq, nobody in the US of any political stripe anticipated that the US trained defense forces there would melt away and that ISIS would advance with the speed it did.
Obama understood that the rise of ISIS was a backlash caused by official Iraqi government policy of persecution of the Sunnis. Eventually, the Iraqi prime minister resigned and the US returned to clean up the mess.
In the present situation in Afghanistan, we know the threat of the Taliban. We know of their extreme religiosity and their common cause with al queda. And we know what lies ahead if they control Afghanistan.
So, while Obama certainly made mistakes in Iraq and other places, the Obama-Iraq withdraw story is just a little more nuanced, and the analogy to Aganisstan more tenuous, than Mr. Stephens would have you believe.
6
This is just one example of how senior Republicans have totally sold-out their principles at the Trump throne. While all this is happening in Afghanistan, we are simultaneously running-up trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see. Stephens could easily be writing this column about Mick Mulvaney, formerly one of the nation's leading deficit hawks, now doing exactly what Pompeo is doing in foreign policy on the domestic side. And that's just one example among many. As Lindsey Graham famously said, "Boy y'all want power."
5
Didn’t we learn anything from Russia’s attempt to control Afghanistan? It can’t be done. The people are too tough, the power is too locally distributed between tribal lords in 3 different ethnic groups, and the terrain is too rugged. There are still Russian tanks laying around from 50 years ago! It is very a very western centric mindset to think we can just go in there and force these people to change 2000 years of culture and take on a multi-ethnic, democracy that respects women’s rights.
2
My father used to tell me, don't start anything you can't finish. This advice goes double for politicians with war-making powers. When you invade another country, you buy It lock stock & barrel. You have to also take into account that there are going to be a lot of people in those countries who, although they may be chafing under some sort of dictatorship, really don't want you there. So unless you understand that particular point and are willing to commit to maintaining a presence there forever, then don't start the war.
1
So am I. For Pompeo, a smart guy, ambition trumps (pun intended) principle. But what is your alternative?
Just hanging on makes no sense. Recall that similar arguments by Obama administration officials who didn't like Richard Holbrooke frustrated the latter's recommendation to start negotiations with the Taliban.
We have a long reach. If ISIS takes territory in Afghanistan, we can strike from afar, quite possibly with the Taliban's approval. We don't belong in Afghanistan, anymore than the Soviets or the British. There is, following Ecclesiastes, a time to stay and a time to go. Time To Go.
3
I agree with the writer's sentiments but have real questions regarding the basic outline of the agreement being negotiated. I have these questions because the opinion piece states that the details are a closely held secret. So who provided the basic outline without the details? It's stuff like this that provide Donald Trump the opportunity to take credible shots at the media. It is important for the reader to know the source of the basic outline of the agreement before he or she can register legitimate outrage at what the President and his secretary of state may be up to.
1
I want our troops out of Afghanistan now. The US cannot continue to be the police for countries who aren’t willing to fight for democracy. The villages in outlying areas only care about their crops and village. As President I would never want to be put in a situation to explain why someone’s son or daughter died in Afghanistan.
1
This just reinforces the idea that every single GOP office holder needs to be defeated in 2020. The Party has lost all of its principles and become a subservient cult to Trump's insanity. Does anyone really believe that Trump has not squandered any chance he had to be an effective president? The damage he has inflicted on our nation's reputation will take decades to recover from - if we can ever recover. He has been abetted by players like Pompeo - who never had any core principles of his own. Time to wipe the slate clean. Have the GOP be replaced by whatever emerges from the rubble and get this country back on track to normalcy.
2
I'm beginning to see a pattern in your writings: criticize progressives while sprinkling in some potshots at Trump to establish your intellectual bona fides. From my point of view, it isn't working. This article reads as more critical of Obama than Pompeo, yet it fails to mention the misinformation campaign executed by the administration of one of those conservatives you seem to pine for - ah, the halcyon days of W! - that started an entirely unnecessary war and diverted resources from one that, until roughly then, had been going well.
Until anyone is able to develop a comprehensive plan to achieve substantive, worthwhile objectives in Afghanistan, what is the point in remaining? You seem to dismiss the 18 deaths of US servicemen and -women as almost negligible. Perhaps you'd feel differently if you or your children were serving. Currently, militants opposed to the US can simply attack and retreat across borders to Pakistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Iran. Until that is no longer the case, there is little likelihood of significant, sustainable gains.
9
Where indeed would we be without conservatives? I have often pondered that question. The answer seems clear. Not in Afghanistan negotiating our version of the Munich Pact.
6
Afghanistan war in American psyche is reaching a strange point.
First of all, Nobody in USA at this moment feeling that we are waging a war somewhere over there.
That means forgotten. Fugue you can say.
The reality in politics is different, sending soldiers to their death , spending money which not justifiable , infinitely.
Trump or anybody , Afghanistan is a tar pit, A this moment I can expect, America should gather all expertise military and diplomacy and start to build and exit strategy , solid strategy. it will take 10 years so be it.
But like this, No you cannot come out of this, you pretend , but you can't.
So What we didn't do when we have Rumsfeld and Cheney is in power and pushed us in to this tar pit, We should do now. Sit , and plan think thoroughly , lay out grand strategy how to get out of this quagmire.
We were reckless then 2001( not planning thoroughly), we cannot be reckless now. we already lost a lot.
1
If this agreement was so great, let everyone read it, even the fine print, without redactions and secret agreements.
After all, "General" Trump and "General" Pompeo know more than the other Generals combined.
4
@JMT
Generals fight Wars ... Politicians make agreements to end/get out of Wars
Afghanistan is not and should not be about Democrats and Republicans. Each quickly adopts the others arguments depending on the party affiliation of the occupant of the White House. Looking at it through this prism only distorts the conversation.
Afghanistan is a reminder of the limits of American power, both military and economic. It is a lesson every Administration ignores at our own peril. We should know by now that we cannot nation-build in our image, that is to say create a liberal civil democratic system, in a society whose customs and history have no such traditions. We cannot impose anything on an unreceptive population that has always viewed outsiders with suspicion and other local tribes as potentially dangerous rivals.
What is desperately needed is a public discussion identifying the US' specific national interests there and how best to secure them given the anticipated costs. The overarching concept though needs to be based on humility. We cannot save the world and even if we could, we must recognize that some people simply would not want to be "saved" by an outsider, no matter how well intentioned.
5
Maybe only 14 people died in 2018 but those 14 had wives, husbands, parents and children so that effects hundreds. Then factor in the dozens that are left amputees or injured living out their next 60 years on disability in and out of hospitals, in wheelchairs, fitting and refitting prosthetics. Then factor in the PTSD that effects thousands exposed to this violence from which they will always have psychologically scars. Finally, what about wasting prime years of one’s life that could be used building long term practical job skills and education that would function to build up society rather than tear it down.
5
OK, Mr. Stephens, it's easy to point out our mistakes, so what should we do? Pompeo cannot and will not persuade Trump to put in the time and effort to consider whatever alternative strategies are available. So, other than a complete withdrawal (surrender?), what else can we do?
For decades nation building, war and growing the defense budget has been politically and financially lucrative for Republicans. And yes, there are plenty of Democrats who played this deceptive game.
The Reagan administration, led by Dick Cheney, created the lucrative military outsourcing business. That initiative has paid off politically and monetarily for Dick Cheney and his Republican pals. In addition, outsourcing has made lots of retired flag officers and politicians millionaires.
That said, spending money on education, infrastructure and healthcare for Americans are political losers when compared to defense spending. Therefore, one can't help but wonder if the recent need to spend billions on nuclear weapons and medium-range ballistic missiles prior to pulling out of Afghanistan has surfaced to ensure that total defense spending is not impacted by the end of Afghanistan operations. Like at the end of the cold war politicians will ensure there is no peace dividend from our country's exit from Afghanistan.
As pointed out by Mr. Stephens pulling out of Afghanistan for political reasons is right out of the Nixon playbook, it is also right out of the Reagan Lebanon playbook. I have no doubt that the fig leaf of politicians and blind trusts coupled, with a system of legalize bribery and the cost of sustaining the military-industrial-complex for the financial benefit of the few will contribute to the end of our democracy.
5
Another "secret" deal that will solve all our problems under the supervision of the the author of "The Art of the Deal". Interesting that the secret will be announced with fanfare in October of 2020 right before the election, but not with enough time to fizzle before the elections. Will it be as successful as other Trump negotiations such as making the world safe from N. Korea's nuclear weapons, purchasing Greenland? The Chinse capitulation to his trade war? The peace in the Middle East after pulling out of the Iran Arms agreement? Solving climate change by pulling out of the Paris Accords? The fabulous NAFTA replacement? I wonder what secret agreement Trump has made with Wayne LaPierre to make us all safe from guns?
7
@AJR Incompetence disguised as a president, a “president” that did not win the popular vote. Please, people, vote this man down the drain.
1
The reality on the ground is that the Afghan government controls (sort of) Kabul, has an army that is ineffective without active US support and a tribal system outside the capital that has survived Soviet occupation and US intervention. Looking through a Western lens, we may decry the loss of woman's rights and intolerance for diverging religious views but we should have learned by now that we cannot impose our values on a society where the vast majority finds those values to be an anathema (see Iraq etc). I don't view this as a "loss", the objective was to eliminate Afghanistan as a terrorist refuge not to create a western style democracy. If Mr Stephens is looking for the high point of Afghan society, it is not the Soviet puppet government with its torture and indiscriminate warfare but rather the monarchy that preceded it, that allowed the tribes some self governance and embraced Western thought in Kabul. It was a nice, relatively safe place to visit in the 1970's before the Soviet invasion.
While Stephens advocates against the US pulling out of Afghanistan he doesn't explain how the situation will be any different in 5 or 10 years from now if we did stay. And this is because the Taliban are not an armed forces that can be weakened and ultimately defeated through fighting.
The Taliban are basically people that live in Afghanistan who identify with a certain camp in Afghan society. Those of fighting age, will dedicate the spring to fall season for fighting. Others decide each year whether their calendar allows them to fight, and others have already moved beyond their fighting years, getting older, or perhaps having a family to support and raise their families in the Taliban tradition so that when their boys reach fighting age they join the fight.
The fighters of the Taliban now, 17 years into the war, were children when the war started and are already a 2nd generation of fighters. And so if we stay another 17 years we will be fighting the 3rd generation.
The invasion of Afghanistan in the 1st place served no purpose and accomplished nothing. We invaded and removed the Taliban because of a new doctrine of "if you are not with us you are against us", and if Bush had understood that they are not giving up bin Laden because its against their cultural values he would have had no reason to invade.
As for the women of Afghanistan and the Taliban, we did not topple the Taliban for the sake of those women and protecting them is not what the war was ever about.
2
This post lacks a clear statement of why we are in Afghanistan,
what we gain by our presence, and what should our exit strategy should be. Absent this its hard to make sense of its recommendations.
4
It is important to consider the will of the people who live in the countries our military invades. President Obama left Iraq because the Iraqi government wanted the United States out. When Daesh came, Iraq needed US help.
Yes, it is time to end these forever wars.
1
History suggests that no agreement with the Taliban will be worth the paper it is written on, nor affect ISIS in any material way.
We were wrong to try to transform a tribal federation into one made in our own image. Until the Afghan people decide to take the reins of power a process which would necessarily entail a wholesale reversal of the mentality that they are subjects of their political and religious rulers there's little likelihood of meaningful or permanent change.
Our flesh and blood should not be expended trying to achieve something they don't even want.
1
This opinion piece is a perfect example of why we have made no progress in 18 years of war in Afghanistan. Mr. Stephens is convinced that we cannot leave lest disaster befall the country, but unsurprisingly silent when it comes to ideas that could turn Afghanistan into a stable country capable of existing without our sizeable support.
Afghanistan has been a failure. Afghan elites failed their people through corruption and power struggles, the Afghan people have failed themselves through their inaction at the ballot box, and American political and journalistic elites have failed Afghans and Americans by pushing for Western democracy in the face of reality. The Afghan government is going to fall when we leave because it is democratically braindead, and for the last 10 years it's just been a question of when we decide to pull the plug. Mr. Stephens failure to recognize this after so many years spent reporting on the Middle East makes me question his analytical skills.
2
Stephens complains the deal is bad, but he misunderstands the purpose of the deal.
There is no verification mechanism included in the deal because we lack the leverage to insist on one. We lack leverage because our side is losing and losing badly. This deal exists as a way for America to save face and for no other reason. It has nothing to do with Trump's ego or wussy progressives and their silly beliefs; it has everything to do with America being able to say “we didn't lose, we negotiated an end to the war”.
Stephens though, wants the war to continue indefinitely. For him, 14 dead Americans every year is a small price to pay if it means upholding vague principles and providing Americans with a false sense of security. Some may dispute his argument, but I am more interested in the fact that he ignores the losses of our Afghan allies, you know, the people who are actually doing the fighting.
From 2014-2018 Afghan security forces suffered 45,000 fatalities. Their losses were so high that the government decided to stop collecting and publishing casualty statistics.
The point is that the status quo is unsustainable, eventually the Afghan security forces will collapse. Even if Stephens decides that the lives of our allies are not important enough to be included in his little cost/benefit analysis, he must realize that the continuation of this war in the long term will require far more than 14,000 American troops and will cost far more than 14 American dead.
1
There are so many lost souls in the trump administration. It is mind-boggling and depressing beyond words. Let's all hope for a remedy, sooner rather than later.
6
Bret Stephens seems to be surprised that so many of his fellow conservatives are so willing to desert their core conservative principles. We liberals are surprised by Bret Stephens's surprise.
21
The “conservative core” values are a sham.
@WmC
Naive, or willful blindness ??? Amazing, isn’t it ???
The moral issue for America in Afghanistan is that we are the primary force, among the coalition, that prevents the people of Afghanistan, and particularly its women, from again falling into the brutal murderous, practices of the Taliban.
Unfortunately, this moral argument had as little impact on Obama as it does on Trump, albeit for different reasons, but to the same effect. As for Americans of all political persuasions, moral reasons for doing anything has historically always had an "expiration date", a trait shared with many other nations to be sure but then we do like to think of ourselves as the best of nations.
As for the casualties American servicemen endure in what has become a continuing military presence to prevent the Taliban returning, since the formal draw-down of American servicemen in 2014 there have been a total of 53 casualties in Afghanistan. Over that same period our nation has endured 113 casualties in school shootings alone.
If, as a nation, we can endure such a casualty rate in our schools for which so little has been done to prevent recurrence, we can certainly endure casualties of service members who volunteer their service and are trained and supported by the best military in the world in order to prevent the kinds of massive atrocities likely in Afghanistan that occurred in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia when we effectively abandoned those people.
3
The cynicism in the Trump administration and its cabinet is chin-high. Much more of it will surely drown the lot. Pompeo knows that Trump's Afghanistan scheme serves one purpose: Trump's re-election effort. Trump could care less if there are troops in Afghanistan or anywhere else, provided they are not an inconvenience to his political future. It matters only that he get re-elected, and if Afghanistan is overrun by the Taliban, well, that's their problem. And the women? We already know he doesn't care.
7
A transactional analysis of this situation is a grave error. This is not happening isolated from the rest of the world either in terms of geography or time.
War is an exercise in gathering information, including about an opponents willingness to fight. From our defense budgets to our timelines, we need to be very careful about the information we are emitting to the world. If we demonstrate that our wars are fodder for elections and our commitments precarious, both our allies and adversaries will take note and act accordingly.
2
This reminds me of the response to a letter written by a high school student to the late Mad Magazine, asking what the difference was between the two parties, Republicans and Democrats. The magazine answered by saying that the party in power would be harshly criticized for the job that they were doing by the party not in power, even though the party not in power would be doing about the same thing if they were in power, at which time they'd be doing a great job! Life imitates art.
5
We lost Afghanistan in the sense that we never possessed it. Our rationale for a military strike there was to find, capture or kill the terrorists under Osama Bin Laden responsible for the 9/11 Twin Tower attack in New York City. But once we found Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan and killed him, we had no reason to militarily intervene in Afghanistan, which for centuries has been a regional problem for the neighboring countries around it for centuries. Our coalition of allied troops from ex-colonial countries and for a time Canada only aggravated the internal tribal feuds and delayed their peaceful resolution. As important as upholding gender equality is, it’s not a reason for us to lead a modern military crusade to impose and police its observance there. We’re not leading any gender rights crusade in Saudi Arabia, are we?
1
@Bayou Houma
"As important as upholding gender equality is.."
OH I don't think it is that important. Liberals, the ones who keep screaming LET THEM IN turn a blind eye at the misogynistic and "women are property" culture of Guatemalan men. The same men, who they want to let in our country unobstructed to start a new life. As if they would be willing to leave their culture and belief system at the border ?? Give me a break!
1
@Aaron
Most of the leading advocates in the Democratic Party for a liberal asylum and refugee policy, or a borderless one, will never become involved with or experience a personal relationship with a Guatemalan male refugee’s machismo culture, nor a Mexican’s or other Northern Triangle country’s male culture in this country. The few American women who do will never get over the memories of it if they survive it. Ditto for most religious fundamentalist views of females, no matter the creed.
The mistake of believing the Taliban or withdrawing from Iraq is far overshadowed by the original mistake of entering Iraq in the first place. That was arguably to progenitor of many of the worst Mideast issues since.
7
@john zouck
That is exactly correct. We can thank VP Dick Cheney (Mr. Often-wrong-never-in-doubt, himself), the driving force behind President George W's disastrous incursion into Iraq, for much of the present Middle East turmoil. The invasion of Iraq so destabilized the region, that we are still paying for this blunder, with the outcome remaining very much in doubt.
1
John,
Your comment x 10.
I don't think anyone on the planet has an answer for Afghanistan. Certainly not those is charge of U.S policy. I am not convinced we or the Afghan people gain anything by us staying or leaving. Only the fear of purging by the Taliban give me pause.
With the dual failures of our presence in both Iraq and Afghanistan, we have hopefully come to realize invading other countries is not in our interest or theirs.
4
@allen roberts
Very well said. Thank you.
1
There was a time...seems like ancient history...when politicians dodged and weaved around the edges of reality attempting to paint the best picture with flawed paints. Now, they just betray themselves right out in the open, no apologies, not even hedging their words or their bets. How can this be?
Partly it can be blamed on the collapse of the ruling clique that consisted of America's great newspapers and renowned columnists as well as the "old boys club" who gushed forth from the so called elite universities having been lucky enough to be born to old line, rich parents. Instead, we have pretenders from the hot, baked plains of Kansas who, it seems, would sell their souls to stay in high regard by the man, Trump, who regards no man or woman highly other than his orange self.
"The center cannot hold" because there is no center any more. It's gone.
We are a rudderless nation in search of what we once stood for or any new way that might, with luck, represent some sense of organization of ideas and action. With the rise of a million voices on the Internet, the relentless propaganda of Fox Noise and right wing radio, we might not find a new path before utter disaster strikes.
10
@Doug Terry
Depressing but I fear you're right.
1
Here’s an inconvenient fact: the Taliban acts pursuant to its understanding of Islamic holy texts. That is its justification for, by way of just one example, its horrific (by Western standards) treatment of women as somewhere between third class citizens and chattel and a major concern in the inevitable event of a US military withdrawal.
What could be a more compelling case for the direct involvement of Congresswomen Omar and Tlaib? Their background would, it seem, provide them with particular insights that could be extraordinarily helpful in crafting a sensible strategy. This would be especially true of Omar who has a seat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
Yet, as far as I can tell, they have contributed precisely zero to this conversation while focusing obsessively on creating a breach with a key Middle East ally, coincidentally the only non-Muslim country there. Why this lack of interest in defending basic human rights when the perpetrators are Muslim? Maybe someone should ask them directly.
7
Maybe some one should involve them? They are very unlikely to have the same interpretation of Islam, and between that and being female, would likely be seen as irrelevant at best, heretical at worst by the Taliban with whom they’d be negotiating. If by some miracle they were actually able to use their understanding of the underlying religion to broker a better peace in Afghanistan, wouldn’t Trump just love that? He would never allow any person or group he perceives as the enemy to do anything constructive within his tenure for fear of allowing them to look good, and thereby in his weird “winner take all” mentality, make him look bad. He only allows those on his own team to do things if he can be assured it makes him look better. Their best bet for getting things done in a non-partisan fashion is to fly under the radar, making sure that little is heard about what they are doing, or by making sure to highlight only details that can be construed as coming from Trump. His wonton destruction of anything initiated by the previous administration, regardless of any benefit it may have had for our country is direct evidence of his promotion of self over country.
This rather chilling account of the work that Mike Pompeo is conducting on "negotiating" an Afghan exit should alarm us all. As a person who believes in the "rapture", Mr. Pompeo is hardly the person to attempt to deal with the complexities of any Middle Eastern country.
Fred Halliday, author of "The Middle East in International Relations", published by Cambridge University Press, says in the forward to his book, "external intervention, interstate war, poli- tical upheaval and interethnic violence are compounded by the vagaries of oil prices and the claims of military, nationalist and religious movements."
Do we really trust know-nothings Trump and Pompeo to negotiate anything, anywhere on our behalf, let alone a secret exit strategy for our troops in Afghanistan?
10
We can turn their poppies into legitimate medicines. We can afford to pay the highest price. When should have been buying it all up and calling the shots this whole time.
4
US participation in Afghanistan has placed us in a position of a no-win situation. Continue this decades war indefinitely or throw the Afghanistan people under the bus by withdrawal. I haven't heard or know of any other solutions. The Taliban will wait us out and the Afghanistan government, for whatever reason, is unable to defend itself after years of US support. Conceding Afghanistan to the Taliban, and hoping for the best, seems to me to be a solution. Not continuing conflict involving the US. We can not assure a semblance of democracy to everyone in our world.
7
America is about to embark on its second betrayal of the Afghan people. The last time was around when we destroyed civil society by aiding the murderous Mujahadeen against the Soviets. After all, under the then secular government allied with Soviets, there was real progress in modernizing the society, including substantial making substantial strides in women’s rights and education. While we subverted all that progress in order to play not so smart geopolitics, the people of Afghanistan ended up paying the highest price. Our actions went further ... destabilizing the subcontinent by arming Pakistan and midwifing the rise of Islamist fundamentalism. Incidentally, how’s all that worked out for us?
518
@Murali PasupulatiI
I doubt many Afghans would look back at the Soviet occupation (when Aghan civillians were brutally slaughtered by Soviet air power--just as Trump's best friend Putin has been doing in Syria) as their golden years. Yes, the U.S. should have been more discriminating as to who they armed just as they were warned by Afghan allies.
But the real betrayal occured during the intervention after 9/11. Many Afghans believed, as U.S. forces quickly drove the Taliban to ground, that a country with wealth, power and Democratic ideals was finally going to liberate them from decades of tyranny and bloodshed.
Instead, within two months the U.S. began to withdraw key resources as it began to plan one of the greatest blunders in America's military history: the Bush/Cheney invasion of Iraq.
It will never be know if America's intervention in Afghanistan could have liberated Afghans from their decades of despair, because the U.S. failed, as it often does, to commit to any outcome beyond its own very narrow interests as defined by the current administration's political instincts.
154
@Murali Pasupulati
I remember a story in the Wall Street Journal by I think Barry Newman, soon after the Mujahadeen took over, in which he interviewed an Afgani woman, who had worked for the government during the Soviet era.
The one thing the Soviets did well was to start schools everywhere they went, boys and girls together, with male and female teachers. In Afghanistan, the Mujahadeen destroyed all this.
According to the WSJ, the Soviets also built housing, running water, electricity, telephones, and a basic infrastructure. All gone.
I used to read the WSJ editorial page every day, but I could never understand why the US wanted to destroy the Soviet-sponsored regime in Afghanistan, even after Gorbachev called off the cold war.
It seemed as if people like Zbigniew Brzezinski simply had a tribal hatred of the Russians, and assumed a zero-sum game in which anything bad for the Soviets was good for us.
And, according to the WSJ editorial page, once Communism is destroyed, it will be replaced by the free market paradise prophesied by Milton Friedman, with free democratic elections just like ours (with technical assistance from the International Republican Institute and the National Democratic Institute).
This strategy of overthrowing democratically elected governments hasn't worked out too well for us.
Does anyone prefer dealing with Putin, rather than Gorbachev?
75
@Murali Pasupulati
The Soviet invasions of Afghanistan was wrong (though many of its communist-leaning neighbors like Iran, India etc. condoned it).
There was no way America could stand silent just because women were considered equal.
7
Several people have compared the war in Afghanistan to the war in Vietnam. Those two wars were very different in many ways but one way in which they were/are similar is the way we got out of them.
In the Vietnam war and now in Afghanistan, America lost and at the end was just looking for a way out. Our message to our opponents were the same: give us a decent interval to exit the situation. Let us get out of the house and out of the neighborhood before the roof falls in.
Another similarity with Vietnam -- there were many Vietnamese who supported us in Vietnam but we left and left them to face the North Vietnamese and the "re-education camps" or death.
We plan on doing the same in Afghanistan -- the people who supported us and particularly the women will be left to sufferer their fate at our departure.
We did the same in Iraq. Many Iraqis worked for and supported American troops only to be left to their fate when we drew down our forces.
America has a well established record of starting wars and then bugging out. These wars are like the "tar baby" in the briar patch. They are easy to get into but hard to get out of.
Now The Donald, Pompeo, and Bolton want to bug out of Afghanistan so they can get into Iran.
The difference is that a major segment of The Donald's base are the evangelicals. The evangelicals love Bibi and Israel.
Bibi hates Iran but doesn't give a hoot about Afghanistan. So that explains our foreign policy.
427
@Aubrey,
Withdrawal from Vietnam worked out well for Vietnam. The
country has made significant progress since them. If we prolonged the stay the violence would have continued. Same is true for Afghanistan. The violence has continued. Taliban have said it
clearly they will persists in waging
war so long foreign troops are present. Those who want to keep
American troops need to explain
how the presence of 14,000 troops
will advance peace and prosperity
there. It probably will be more of
the current situation which is untenable. Mr. Stephens doesn't care about the death of Afghans.
He is happy that only 14 Americans died. Why Afghans continue to host
American troops if American people
couldn't care less about the lives of
Afghani people. Mr. Trump is right
to pull all the troops out.
2
@Aubrey: Like Vietnam, we will never "win" in Afghanistan. We went in to root out the Taliban and "get" Osama bin Laden. Just like Vietnam, we can never "win" in Afghanistan.
8
@Aubrey
You were making credible points until you argued that all anyone ever needs to understand if they want to understand American foreign policy, including why Americans everywhere after 16 years of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan want the wars to end and for American troops to come home, is to blame Israel.
According to you no Americans actually care about bringing those American troops home and the wars ending, and the desires of Americans everywhere have nothing whatsoever to do with American foreign policy and the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan. According to you, Israel, which "doesn't give a hoot about Afghanistan", is the one and only reason Americans want out of Afghanistan.
No doubt you were also about to tell us how the Israelis were behind the Vietnam War, the Korean War, and the Kosovo War, and lest any forget, the only reason the Punic Wars and the Cimbrian War ever happened was because of Netanyahu and Israel, and...
9
Didn't the US have a similar face saving deal with North Vietnam as an excuse to leave? See what happened afterwards. All the trouble and pain for nothing.
5
Thanks to Bret Stephens for having the courage to say U.S. troops or U.S. special forces need to stay in Afghanistan. This is a so called "neoconservative" view and neoconservatives have been blamed for everything bad in the world. But, if the neocons are wrong on JCPOA, which I think they are, they are right about Afghanistan. Pulling out will have terrible consequences which passionate progressives will cry about but be helpless to do anything about. Everyone knows that Afghan women will be sent back into a form of existence that can only be described as a brutal servitude. Further, our withdrawal will make a country nearly the size of Texas a vast safe haven for Al Qaeda and ISIS. Ultimately, this new failed terror state will be best known for sending newly trained jidhadis all across the Muslim world and beyond. They will wage asymmetric war with horrific truck bombs and they will destroy societies, doubling down on societies that are already severely damaged by war.
There is no upside for a U.S. withdrawal other than the possession of a false narrative that America has now disentangled itself from an intractable conflict. It won't. That conflict is portable.
7
If the U.S. wants to maintain influence in world affairs, we will need to keep troops deployed in the world's most dangerous places. Throughout the Cold War this was widely assumed. In the decades before and after the Vietnam War our uniformed personnel were nearly twice as numerous as now, with hundreds of thousands deployed overseas. There will remain indefinitely the need for peace-keeping forces overseas, and the need to oppose or contain insurgent forces like ISIS, Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Bringing all the American troops home so they'll be safe makes the world a much more dangerous place for tens of millions of people now, eroding the gains in security and democracy that were gained at incredible cost throughout the 20th century.
Instead of promising to "end the forever wars" and bring all the troops home, Democratic candidates for President and Congress should be promising to strengthen ties with friendly countries and rebuild international organizations, to share the permanent peace-keeping burden.
6
As the author points out, the "puppet" regime has a few positives, in our Westerner eyes that is. Unfortunately what we perceive as "positives" do not necessarily constitute values or realities that the Afghan population recognize. This contrasting aspect leads to two options: maintain the actual equilibrium through continuous, indefinite presence of US military presence, or allow a new equilibrium be established after the US military withdraws. Is the perpetual presence in Afghanistan of the US military something that the US wants to subscribe to?
1
@Ronald Weinstein
The US has "subscribed" to a perpetual presence in more than 800 military bases in more than 70 nations on this globe. Called "defensive," all are clearly designed to execute offensive measures as well. All told, more enlisted personnel lose their lives in accidents in these installations than in Afghanistan every year.
Furthermore, the "new equilibrium" you suggest as a successor to our presence there includes takeover of the government by religious jihadists with severe and deadly consequences for those who call themselves Shia and all women, whether Shia or Sunni.
It does not take a hawk to seek protection for the vulnerable. To answer your question, yes, this liberal would accept perpetual US military presence in Afghanistan as a moral duty to relieve unnecessary suffering.
3
It’s a good thing, of course, to get out. It just seems the deal being reported is based on very simplistic (even hopeful) conditions, with a terror group, and a weak central government that had no input or participation. In Afghanistan! Pray it works, because odds don’t look good for success. Pompeo May know better, but he’s a self-declared loyalist once a “decision is made.”
2
If Mr.Pompeo once had a sense of honor or could express shame, he left these traits at the door of the Oval Office because its occupant insisted that for the privilege of joining his team those traits were to be ignored.Mr. Pompeo has forgotten who he once was-that amnesia seems to effect many of Trump appointees!
4
He does whatever his commander asks. No questions or pushback. The perfect Trump soldier. Don’t seek help from him.
6
No, Pompeo does not have a shred of decency. We have been here before. After killing more than a million in Southeast Asia, including 50000 of or own and wasting billions, the tough guy Nixon, who made his bones on calling Democrats pinkos, left our Vietnam allies out out and in danger of death and worse. We will do it again in Afghanistan, the war to save the Bush presidency from its failure to protect us from 911. But Bret is mistaken in his view that we should continue to prop up the Northern Alliance in the Afghanistan civil war. Obama was right to seek a way out. Trump is too. We can pursue the jihadist by more direct means and one that does not require us to do more than the threat portends.I have just completed the new history of the American revolutionary war. It is obvious we need to learn again the lesson we taught the British in 1776 about the limits of imperialism.
If he had a sense of honor he would not be in the Trump administration. However, he is and he doesn't, and probably never did. It's pretty common among the GOP.
I have to say, I find it quite humorous that the GOP is the tool that Russia uses to destroy the US. It shows you what happens when religious zealots are in government.
As for Afghanistan it has always been a disaster and always will be because it is a theocracy.
6
I never dreamed we would be referring to trump as a religious zealot! Our world is truly upside down!
Everyone in Trump's orbit is a shill.
To be fair, many have tried to bring a semblance of stability and common sense in this administration, but either leave or are asked to leave when they are seen as being unable to advance Trump's personal agenda.
Those who hang around, like Mike Pompeo, have sold their soul to the devil. If this isn't a political ploy to get Trump reelected, I don't know what it is.
If this plan is announced and implemented with the usual personal adulation that Trump will bestow upon himself, the Democrats have to very guarded and careful in their public response. They cannot dismiss it off-hand, because they have been calling for draw down in troops for many years. And yet, this is not the right time. And the terms are vague, which only means that we'll have more insurgency once Trump wins the 2020 election. By then, of course, Mr. Bone-Spurs will be free to send more troops in the name of national security.
Cynical? But not unreal.
2
There's no sense of honor there, Bret, just a sense of surviving the so-called president's wrath.
If truly fear for those left behind in Afghanistan, not just the ones who help the US directly, but every woman who's tried for an education or a job and the men who participated in the attempt to move Afghanistan into the 21st century.
The country may be soaked in blood for decades.
2
If Pompeo had any honor or self-respect, he wouldn't be secretary of state in this administration. You give him too much undeserved credit.
2
When we invaded Afghanistan the people there were living like it was the year 1300. Eighteen years later we’ve brought them forward to the year 1318.
The Taliban aren’t our enemy. They just don’t want us in their country. Time to leave.
2
@Chris When we invaded Afghanistan, the country had already gone through years of war with the Soviets and then the societal destruction of the Taliban. Where you get the year 1300 from I don't know.
From the 1920's there were periods of modernization which were stifled either by reactionaries or international interventions. During this time, land reform, universal education, and equality for women were instituted under the Communist regimes. this from wikipedia - (During communist rule, the PDPA government reformed the education system; education was stressed for both sexes, and widespread literacy programmes were set up.[137] By 1988, women made up 40 percent of the doctors and 60 percent of the teachers at Kabul University; 440,000 female students were enrolled in different educational institutions and 80,000 more in literacy programs.[138] Despite improvements, large percentage of the population remained illiterate.[139] Beginning with the Soviet intervention in 1979, successive wars virtually destroyed the nation's education system.[139] Most teachers fled during the wars to neighboring countries.)
Apparently, this modernization was too much for conservative Muslims and other reactionaries, and that was the end of it. And the Soviets intervened. When the soviet state ended, they withdrew from Afghanistan, and the conservattive mujahadeen who had been supported by the United States and Pakistan came to power.
Why stop with unilateral troop withdrawal from Afghanistan? Why not withdraw troops from South Korea and Europe as well? After all, we will soon have the Great Wall to protect us from any foreign invasion. And no effective gun controls so every American can be fully armed to deal with any threat to national security. America First!
7
President George W. Bush signed the Status of Forces agreement in 2008, in which America set the timetable for troops to be out of Iraq by the end of 2011. Funny how Republicans who criticize the withdrawal of troops from Iraq in 2011 conveniently forget this tiny historical fact.
6
I still find it hard to believe he was top in his class at West Point.
No wonder we haven't won a war since 1945.
9
The sense of shame is long gone from most politicians. They get addicted to power and usually forget about public service.
I am not convinced that leaving Afghanistan is wrong but Mr. Stephens sure makes a convincing argument for staying.
So the plan is to prolong this senseless war through most of Trump's term so he can then brag about ending the war.
When you have wasted several trillions in Afghanistan, why not blow another trillion?
1
Should the US pull out totally, there will be no great uprising of the people against the excesses of the Taliban. We failed in Afghanistan to prove our contention that a democracy-inspired government is worth the struggle. We lost that war a long time ago.
3
Pompeo should stay the course. It's too late for him to resign to protect his reputation
3
Ever since George W. Bush let Osama bin Laden escape from Tora Bora there has only been one answer for the U.S. in Afghanistan.
Leave.
It is way past time to accept that the U.S. cannot make over the world as we want it to be.
Bring our troops home.
4
First in his class at West Point Pompeo demonstrates the gap between academic and military performance in late adolescence from mature integrity and honor. He is a disgrace for the military academy which he has dishonored.
7
Applying concepts like "honor" and logical consistency to Donald Trump and his toadies is an exercise in futility. Their allegiances aren't to any of the virtues as we've known them. Until that reality sinks in, the rest of us won't understand what we're dealing with. It's an administration and party stripped of even a faint adherence to anything other than the crass expediencies of each passing moment.
Pretty much all true but can we dispense, Bret, with the fiction that Obama unilaterally withdrew troops from Iraq and ISIS was spawned? Obama had no choice: the agreement negotiated by Bush II required the troops be withdrawn, and Congress - that feckless body led by Republican fools - refused to consider any other course. Yes, Obama could have tried to trample international law by refusing to honor the withdrawal of forces agreement. But to say it was his decision? Wrong.
4
This whole thing is such a bitter recrudescence of history—from the disaster of the British withdrawal from Kabul in 1842 to more imperial blundering in 1879 and all through the long and fruitless tale of Brits and Russians and now us playing “The Great Game.” Folly. There is a reason Afghanistan is called “The Grave of Empires.”
3
Look for lots more crazy and dangerous foreign policies initiatives as the election gets closer.
And Pompeo heads off to Russia to confer with Putin.
2
I see Pompeo the same as Trump and Barr. It's ego and a since of grandeur that gets him up in the morning. Selfishness at the expense of others is the new behavior.
1
American Foreign Policy Question:
Who's left to believe us when we can't believe ourselves?
Answer:
Vote.
4
Memo to the Neocons. We lost the "war on terror" and allowed ourselves to be governed under the Patriot act.
When you lose a war of choice there are really bad consequences.
9/11 was a horrific attack. So were the attacks on Vegas, El Paso, Sandy Hook, Oklahoma City, etc., etc., etc...
When individuals or a group of individuals conspire to commit murder you bring them to justice. You don't go to war for 2 decades, suspend the rights of your own people and inflict punishment on innocent civilians.
9
Someone should ask Sec. Pompeo if there is a lot paperwork required to renounce everything you used to believe in or is it a relatively simple operation. All those sanctimonious Republican deficit hawks didn't seem to have much trouble reversing course, so I guess national security hawks shouldn't have had to work up much of a sweat either.
5
I hate the last paragraph because it’s so true.
I feel a deep sense of shame whenever I feel untrue. I learned this from my Father. At a very young age, it became a true reflex in the sense that I could not stop the feeling of shame if I’d done something wrong.
Where has this feeling gone? Is it really true that people do not feel shame anymore? That allegiance to a politician or idea erodes feeling ashamed?
An English friend said “We need a war”. Perhaps it’s true. Perhaps when many Americans see friends die shame will re-emerge as a real emotion. Then, the Pompeos will be gone.
1
Those are two big rhetorical IFs you pose in your close. Sense of honor and sense of shame. Sort of deflates the whole build up.
1
Who in the trump has a sense of honor? No name comes to mind.
5
It’s embarrassing that a partisan hack is our nation’s top diplomat. Like Pence, Pompeo is nothing but an Evangelical extremist who believes that the teachings of the intolerant and cruel Evangelical God should be what this nation is governed by rather than our Constitution.
2
OK, so Trump will withdraw US troops from Afghanistan, claim that he ended the endless war and established peace---like we've never seen before. And as long as we ignore the fact that the Taliban will take over do continue to do all of their nefarious things, women will be wantonly murdered for the crime of being female, and ISIS will stage a comeback, things will be great. There is a limit to how many fires can be lit before a conflagration ensues.
Well, Pompeo is another bully in vulgar Trump's misrule, abusing his role in deciding what's best for world peace, regardless of the consequences. He will be remembered as Trump' sycophant, trying to flatter the president in adopting ever changing 'policies' towards international peace, as the intended withdrawal from Afghanistan shows. Given the current 'lying' as official policy, how could we possibly trust Trump and Pompeo, in having our best interests in mind? This is clearly dangerous, if not irresponsible.
2
Well, of course Pompeo is a hypocrite. No argument.
But Stephens, what do you propose?
* As an exit strategy? Of is this permanent, since the antagonism towards the US, especially our presence in the Middle east, has become entrenched in some groups.
* A a plan to pay for this/e these exercise(s) in retaining the US role in world "stability"?
Would you perhaps suggest taking out the tax cuts which are directly causing a massive deficit to become an unimaginable one? Or shall we just, as Republics seem to secretly desire, cut every program designed to improve welfare at home? After all, we have a President considering another tax cut to payroll taxes, the chief result of which would be to starve Social Security and Medicare of support years earlier than predicted?
Shall we keep destroying and rebuilding infrastructure in war-torn areas?
I think our attempts to win supporters, ad then abandon them is abominable. But like most Americans, I no longer feel that I ever had a say in our policies - the official ones and the secret ones --. What so often is it US arms that are being used by all sides in civil wars? Because we supplied them. What continuing idiocy.
We shouldn't be run by the defense industry. or by large corporate interests.
The Republicans would abandon lower and middle income workers in this country just as quickly as Trump wants to abandon Afghanistan's powerless.
Hypocrisy? I remember when the Republicans excoriated Pres Obama for revealing a timeline for withdrawing from Afghanistan. But when Trump does it? Meh, it's OK.
1
The fate of Afghanistan was sealed when W. decided to divert resources and lives to Iraq (based on lies) back in 2003. And it's not surprising that Pompeo and others would go against their previously held policy positions. Republicans have shown themselves to be shameless hypocrites time and time again. Also, I'm not sure why the Taliban and al Qaeda would expend resources to harm America when we do a great job of that ourselves. They can sit back and watch as red state "Christians" and Russian hackers help reelect Trump next year.
1
We lost that war many many years ago. It’s another Vietnam. In two years time the Taliban will once again be in control. We never learn. Our war like behavior has made an ally for Iran of Iraq and created ISIS. Then there isSyria, Yemen and Libya. We are a nation of losers. Only fourteen military .died.That supposed to console the families. Our ineptitude has resulted in the death of our children.
Time to leave.
2
Once you get over the fact that a politician might, some times, be a Hypocrite, you might want to look at the situation from the Afghans' point of view.
Although some, probably not even a majority, were probably glad, at the very beginning, that the Taliban were chased from power, the ensuing endless occupation of their country be a foreign power with a culture hostile the their's and their Religion has most likely turned the entire Afghan population, except those few who benefit directly, against the West in general and the US in particular.
The Taliban have now become freedom fighters trying to liberate their country from the Infidels' occupation.
So, yes, Pompeo is a hypocrite, but the alternative to a withdrawal is an endless occupation while supporting a puppet government which only fuels Afghan nationalism and hatred of America and its local supporters. The military victory was easy. The political battle is irremediably lost.
A hawk might note that the US "endured just 14 fatalities in Afghanistan in 2018." Just 14 fatalities. Put that on the tombstones of those young service members who died. Tell their families: "Gee, sorry your son or daughter died. Sorry they will never come home to be with their friends and families. But what we are doing here is just so important. What we are doing here has not been explained very well but, oh well, that's how it goes in a war zone." Stop now.
3
Shame and honor don't exist in the Trump administration. If they did, the dotard would have no cabinet.
1
The US brought so many catastrophies to Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Jemen or Syria that I rather have a complete withdrawal of the US from Afghanistan even if such an exit may entail some negative side effects.
Not to worry!
All the Republican patriots in the Senate and the House will stop this from happening.
Trump is desperate to win in 2020 to avoid indictment and jail. Our nation doesn’t count to him. Only saving his (orange) skin. That is the “philosophy” undergirding all of Trump’s increasingly insane activity.
Abandoning Afghanistan to the Taliban is part of this self-serving plan. The October 2020 exit shows it. The Trump GOP cynically plan to exploit this in the 2020 election and to the inevitable takeover of Afghanistan by this Taliban afterwards against the Democrats.
1
This column is accurate, well-reasoned and important. However, I have a slightly different perspective on Pompeo and so many other Republicans. Pompeo, and most of the lot, were never hawks. They were certainly never fiscally conservative. They were never in favor of family values. Heck, for Trump and some of his minions the terrible things the Taliban will unquestionably do to women is just the way they feel the world should work. Those were only slogans designed to fool the weak minded.
5
"For starters, they had no patience for the lie that the Taliban was to Al Qaeda merely what a flea motel is to a fugitive on the lam."
Well said!
As to Pompeo's hypocrisy, he comes from a modest background, has had a very spotty and somewhat unsuccessful business career trying to be a "defense supplier" (codeword: swamp creature), and he needs the 200k a year job, or else he cannot survive. Certainly not in Orange County, or DC. Perhaps in Kansas. Why do you think he is toying with a Senate run? Most of these folks have the same problems as everyone else, they're trying to survive. And they'll do or say just about anything to fake it until they make it.
3
@Almighty Dollar
Good comments.
It is surprising how little it costs to buy politicians. The NRA owns most of the republicans and some democrats in Congress as the result of fairly modest "campaign contributions."
Best wishes.
6
Trump has found the Sec. of State he longed for. A rubber-stamp. Mike Pompeo kowtows to him and bends to his will.
Afghanistan is unwinnable, just as Viet Nam was unwinnable. Time for Trump to withdraw from endless unwinnable wars.
Global Jihad is afoot and Donald Trump (notwithstanding his "I am the Chosen One" yesterday) is still America's con man.
4
It will take decades for the USA to rebuild international trust post Trump – if at all. Perhaps then he will get his Moscow Tower and Hero of the Russian Federation award. Pompeo will be remembered as just another obsequious hack.
2
Vietnam is not your father's Afghanistan. The government we 'abandoned' the Vietnamese people to when we withdrew was nationalistic and a builder of a greater society. In Afghanistan, we would be leaving the country to fall into the hands of a government based on religion practiced as tribalism and only too ready to accommodate those who would wage global jihad against the west. The reason Afghanistan is ungovernable is because there is no sense in which loyalty goes beyond one's tribe and this cultural phenomenon is all but guaranteed by religion. It is simply not a nation state in any sense of the word and treating it as such means our presence must be perpetual and its civil war interminable.
166
And by the way, this is what DJT is trying to build in the US.
13
@G. James: James, the terrible truth about Viet Nam was that the South Vietnam leaders and politicians were in it for only one thing, getting obscenely wealthy off of the US taxpayers. When South Vietnam collapsed, those leaders all fled the country with millions of dollars that they stole from the US Government.
16
@G. James
I'll give you that the government of North Vietnam could legitimately claim credit for independence from the French. But, like other communist governments they clearly failed to build a greater society. And Vietnam didn't really develop until they decided to set aside Marxist economics as China largely did. I don't believe we could have won the Vietnam war - only the people of South Vietnam could have done that - and they simply never had a government that could motivate and organize them to do so.
That said, the Taliban is clearly worse.
9
Pompeo is ill-equipped to serve as an honorable Secretary of State. The fact that the U.S. government no longer is seen as a defender of human rights tells you all you need to know about where the Trump priorities lie. Everyone knows this deal with the Taliban is bad for the region, but Trump wants to crow before the 2020 election that he got us out of Afghanistan. It's a sacrifice of national security for his egotistical political aims. So sad! as he would tweet. (I’m a retired Foreign Service Officer. So glad I am not asked to represent this administration. I could not.)
497
@Michael V.
Human Rights? lol
Fight for those ‘rights’ at HOME in the USA ...
9
@Michael V. "Pompeo is ill-equipped to serve as an honorable Secretary of State." Of Course, guess who
recommended him to this post!
6
@Michael V.
Was this one of Pompeo's ideas so all our military information could be hacked up in the clouds?
The Pentagon is preparing to award a $10 billion, 10-year contract to move its information technology systems to the cloud.
3
I for one am tired of this quixotic endeavor which has cost American lives, money, and years. A total withdrawal is long overdue. This country has a thousand-year history of conflict from within; it is ludicrous to think we can overcome this. Get out now and be done with it.
98
One theory holds that we fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here.
14
@Karen
Ma'am, the idea that the US "will be done with..." Afghanistan if we "get out now" is very unlikely (as Stephens states).
The Taliban has stated, many times, that they "will fight 1000 years"; they do not mean just the US and our allies. It ain't over, nobody is going to sing if we leave abruptly.
17
@Karen
You are making the assumption that if you "Get out now", then you will "be done with it".
If your assumption is incorrect, then America will suffer more terrorist attacks, and wars in the future. This was the case with Obama and Iraq. What is your reasoning for making this assumption now?
11
History repeats itself.
When the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989, the country imploded in civil war. With the 2001 assassination of Ahmad Shah Massoud, the "Lion of Panjshir," any chance of a unified central government was lost and the Taliban rose to power.
Once the Americans leave, the fall of the Afghani government is a foregone conclusion, even if it is temporarily sustained by American arms and money, just as the Soviets propped up the government of Mohammad Najibullah before its eventual demise.
Pakistan enables and protects the Taliban, who are the real power brokers in Afghanistan.
What sense does it make to negotiate with an untrustworthy fundamentalist terrorist organization while the nation's legitimate government sits idly by?
Bad planning all around.
4
I'm fascinated that Mr. Stephens did not mention the names "Bush" or "Rumsfeld" once. It sounds like this is all on the Democrats, as usual. He even mentioned Clinton. One who did not know history and read this column would almost think Obama started the war.
We need to learn there are some things we can't fix militarily and a good many we can't fix at all.
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@Mike S.
When winning is not a possibility then leaving the field is the only logical option. It is unfortunate that President Trump will use our departure as a plus in his bid for re-election, but such is the case and nothing can change that. Our lingering there in an effort to protect that society from itself is futile. Xenophobia will return with all it’s horrors, but it is their society and only they can change it.
3
@Mike S.
I'd say "nice catch" but you & I & many see the obviousness of this guys articles. I essentially wrote the same response as you.
I don't understand this guy being a NYT level contributor. If you're going to expose Mike Pompeo's hypocrisy, why is it necessary to use so much reference to Democratic members of congress, who have spent their time attempting top clean up the mess,. for better or worse, warts and all?
It's like talking about the Super Bowl and somehow omitting Tom Brady's name from your report.
"Patriots win Super Bowl with great effort from offensive lineman & defense!"
What?
3
As much as I despaired when we went into Afghanistan (recognizing that it is the graveyard of empires) and as much as I supported Obama's withdrawal - but accepted that he had to change course, it is hard to watch an attempt to withdraw precipitately on the basis of nothing but a US election - all the while the president's party says nothing - yet they are the party that screamed at Obama both for Afghanistan and for a Syrian red line.
18
What is the alternative, Mr. Stephens? How with military power alone do you control the appeal of militantly "Islamic" groups clear across Southwest Asia, the Middle East, and beyond?
You do so soley--soley--by diplomacy, international agreement and comity and by clear messaging to the peoples of Islam that the American people do not share the mutual agreement of those radicals with American conservatives that the only possible relationship between them and the American people is some insane war to the death. That is the only way we are ever going to empower the leadership in Islamic societies to put their own controls on ISIS, Al Qaeda, and so, ad nauseam, ad infinitum.
My own source of expertise is several young relatives, including graduates of the U.S. Service academies, who've encountered these lethal militants, up close and personal. One of them, a senior infantry Sergeant has told me that it would take a half-million troops and 20 or 30 years--at a minimum--to get any control of Afghanistan--AND THAT AS OTHERS HAVE SAID SOME AGREEMENT WITH PAKISTAN TO QUIT GIVING THE MILITANTS SANCTUARY AND EVEN SUPPORT.
Good luck with that--and good luck with another vital need, namely, to quit anchoring our diplomacy in the Middle East to our "alliance" with Israel. That nation's military and diplomatic policy is a living goad to hatred for our country among militant Islam. It's just that simple.
17
@David A. Lee
You put it perfectly so I'll say thanks for your clear conclusions to the unholy mess where militant Islamic groups--not all Islamists--fight for their version of control or power in "SW Asia, the Middle East and beyond." We need diplomacy from experts in our state and defense departments with deep knowledge of countries like Pakistan. Perhaps most importantly our unreasonable support of Israel in the middle of the birthplace of major religions who are at war with each other must be reexamined.
1
I am most interested in your relative the “senior infantry Sergeant” and his overall evaluation of the situation. I took part in one of those wars with “half a million troops” and do not remember anyone up to and including Major Generals that knew that much.
But boy oh boy did they love carpet bombing the countryside !
@John Taylor I appreciated your response and Katalina's, too. Too often those of us who criticize strictly military policy are viewed as interlopers by people who forget that wars are, as Clausewitz said, "politics by other means." Politics means policy and policy means diplomacy. My senior Sergeant buddy and relative got his education the hard way, and, lets be clear about this: General Officers rely on Sergeants to run the military. They know as well as anyone else that they can dispense with a lot of officers, if need be. They will never, ever, get an Army to march, fight and live, too, without their Sergeants. The Generals who command at infantry posts all over this country know this fact, and they know it well, even if it's sometimes forgotten elsewhere in the military bureaucracy.
1
Having served as a medical corpsman in Vietnam, I witnessed the true cost of war on a daily basis. I knew we would go to war against the Taliban that harbored al Qaeda terrorists and camps to train their fanatics in a global jihad like the 9/11 attacks. But I thought once we defeated the Taliban and al Qaeda, we would do a draw down that would take from six moths to a year. That was when the war hawks starting beating their tin drums for a war with Iraq. My heart sunk with forbearing. I knew if we invaded and occupied Iraq we would again commit the same mistakes we did when we blundered into Vietnam. It was deja vu all over again. as Yogi Berra. GWB's Iraq War resolution eerily reminded me of LJB's Gulf of Tonkin. But I live in the United States of Amnesia. The Iraq War engendered ISIS which then craved out a caliphate stretching from Fallujah to Mosul to Raqqa, Syria. It was how the Vietnam War spun out of control and the war grew into multiple fronts from the Republic of South Vietnam to Laos to Cambodia. Even the negotiations to pull out of Afghanistan reminds of me of the Vietnam War.. The Taliban barred elected Afghani officials; North Vietnamese communists refused the Thieu regime a seat at the table. Kissinger said the good will the American people isn't a bottomless well from which you can draw endless buckets of water. Mr. Stephens, the well has run dry. I don't want to see our helicopters evacuating state personnel from our embassy as the Taliban march on Kabul.
40
@George Hoffman
Well said but is there any way we can learn from history and keep it learned for more than half a generation?
8
@cmd Yes, re-start treaching history in schools. It, like Civics, are lost in classrooms today. I have no idea why but I know it is a mistake to not have some level of US history being learned.
October 2020 for complete withdrawal. Wow, just a month before the election. Coincidence? I think not. Enough time to declare victory but not so much time to show the bloodbath that will happen.
The GOP does not care at all about the soldiers. Only to hold on to power.
103
It's amazing how these people give up everything they, seemingly, truly believed in order to work for Trump. What hold does he have on these people?
72
@Jenna As the mutant said when campaigning, "I love the poorly educated." He knew his audience and the value of no education as only a "stable genius" does.
Not only that delusion but as of yesterday, he said, "I am the chosen one." Messia complex anyone?
After the initial victory over Al Qaeda and the Taliban, in 2001, The following factors made an American victory in Afghanistan impossible. 1) The Taliban were protected by elements in Pakistan's I.S.I, who saw them as a counter weight to Indian influence in Afghanistan and Kashmir. The Afghan Taliban were given sanctuaries in Pakistan to which they could retreat, recover, and not be attacked by American forces. Any military expert will tell you that the Pakistani sanctuaries made an American victory impossible. Mullah Omar and the Taliban leadership were given safe harbor in the Pakistani city of Quetta. The American leadership was well aware of the tie between the I.S.I and the Taliban. The knowledge of that complicity raises serious questions about the judgement of Bush, Obama, and the generals, especially when you consider the cost in brave young American lives and treasure. 2) The Petraeus strategy of counterinsurgency was not realistic. There was simply no way that the amount of time, treasure, and troops, required for its success, was ever politically sustainable in the U.S. 3) The Afghan government was so riddled with corruption and ethnic fault lines that the Afghan populace had absolutely no faith in its ability to govern. The counterinsurgency mantra of "clear", "hold", and "transfer" was flawed because there was simply no competent government entity to " transfer" to.
28
@Don Shipp.Yes, exactly. If we were ever serious about defeating the Taliban, we should have been prepared to tell the Pakistanis to either clean out their sanctuaries, or, failing that, to do it ourselves. Without this, the war was never winnable. And yes, not only the politicians, but also the generals bear an enormous responsibility for carrying on blithely pursuing their careers in Afghanistan while ignoring this fact, which was well-known to all of them.
Wasn't that clear from beginning?
1
@yulia
No Yulia , any public statement but...that's the whole point.
I thought Sec Pompeo was a lifelong movement Conservative who was respected by all of Congress. I thought he represented all the values of Conservatism that would help Make America Great Again.
Well, I still think he represents all the values of Conservatism.
15
Clearly Stephens is spot on in his analysis of the tragic outcome of the bailout.But for his analysis to gain any traction at least one of the Democratic contenders has to own it as a key foreign policy
.Who shall it br?
7
True declaring victory and going home will result in a bloodbath in Afghanistan as nobody believes the Taliban capable of changing. At the same time it is likely to hasten their demise. Reality check, we are not capable of defeating them that can only come from within. The Afghan government has little or no internal legitimacy, it is corrupt, venal and controls little of the country.. Face up to facts Bret, the fault for the half in/half out strategy lies not with Obama but with yourself and your fellow "neo-cons", led by one John Bolton, i.e. the ones who got us into this mess to begin with.
Honesty was lacking then and honesty is lacking now. The locals were just going welcome us with open arms and POOF become good democratic citizens. FANTASY. If you want to stay then present the honest plan needed and get it approved. That means plan to be there for as long as we have been there so far, troop levels at about what they are now with a slow dribble of casualties and we are going to have to spend as least as much as we have spent so far. Rebuilding a war torn nation is a slow, expensive process made more peaceable by an outside power but also much slower. Legitimacy and peace can only come from within.
14
The only decent solution to this endless frustrating war is to maintain troops in areas of the country that can be successfully defended and to relinquish ground where it is impossible. That will give some assurance to those who support a freer society than the Taliban offers without daring resources in unwinnable areas. In sum we need a sober recognition of what can be achieved without abandoning those we have given assurances of support. A complete withdrawal, on the other hand, is an invitation for slaughter. This is always the consequences of commitments made. Think carefully about them in the future.
7
Every nation or supposed conqueror from Alexander through Britain, Russia and now the United States that tried to make Afghanistan an ally or to make it a vassal state failed.
The majority of people there want to go back to their medieval ways and to be left alone.
Will women suffer, yes. Will it welcome some people who wish the US ill, yes. Will Pakistan continue to aid our enemies there, yes. Will ISIS have an increasing presence, yes.
Has our presence there prevented any of those things from happening, no.
It is way past the time where we waste one more American life or one more billion dollars there.
For the wrong reasons Trump is correct about getting us out of that quagmire.
32
@Edward B. Blau,
Beautifully stated.
Thank you.
1
@Edward B. Blau
Yes indeed, BUT the wrong reasons matter.
The idea that he could crow about a supposed "win" in Afghanistan so that he might hang around for another disasterous four years is utterly reprehensible.
Should that come to pass, in four more years we truly may not have a country worthy of its name. Arguably this may happened already.
Incredible? You bet.
You lost Pompeo at "sense of honor." Is there a virus that jumps from 45 to any one who serves near him that removes moral compasses, ethics and senses of reality? Afghanistan was a mistake. It is the graveyard of empires. It will require enormous economic investment and diplomacy to counter the Taliban. The military would need to stay to ensure the safety of those working toward this end. That narrative doesn't get the votes 45 wants. So, we leave to give him a happy time boost.
13
We need to get out of there but lets not kid ourselves that this is anything other than a Vietnam style pull out. It's probably not going to do Trump much good electorally since Afghanistan does not loom particularly large on American voters radar. Does anyone really see an Afghanistan pull out materially altering how the vast majority of Americans view Trump one way or the other.
26
Truth be told, there is no good answer to wars like Viet Nam or Afghanistan. Trump's answer is no better than the endless wars proposed by Mr. Stevens and the other Neo-Cons. Staying militarily or leaving militarily will only promote more bloodshed. 70 people died last week at a wedding in Afghanistan with our military on the ground and in the air.
We left Viet Nam and there was wholesale bloodshed. Now they are one of our most ardent trading partners. We need to accept the fact that our military withdrawal from Afghanistan will also be horrendous. But we can hope that one day the Afghani people will decide like their Viet Namese neighbors that a government based on international cooperation and trade is in their best interest.
35
All fair points. Withdrawal from Afghanistan is going to be a disaster for US interests and a humanitarian crisis more generally. But what would you suggest instead? We were supposed to go into Afghanistan, get Bin Laden, and leave. That simple objective alone turned into spectacle after Tora Bora. Now you appear to be advocating permanent occupation.
People are upset with the "endless war" because there is no way to "win" except to keep fighting it. The war is unwinnable. That's what makes it endless. The only way to end the war is to accept defeat. That's what Trump and Pompeo are currently planning to do: Lose the war to maximum political advantage. Not on the scale of Vietnam but the general strategy is the same. Cut and run.
27
The comparison to Obama and Iraq is overly simplistic and misleading, as the circumstances in Iraq were extremely different.
The timeline for withdrawal in Iraq had been set by the bush administration. The Iraqi government at that time was much stronger than today’s afghani Govt and refused - due to internal politics - to allow US troops to stay on reasonable terms. If I remember, they did not make US troops immune to prosecution in wartime scenarios. As a result, The best - but nonetheless flawed - option for Obama was to pull out.
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@Dsr
Agree. My first-hand observation was that the Iraqi government hated having Americans stomping all over their country and advising them every facet of their existence. They wanted us out. They obviously didn't fully appreciate what would befall them after we pulled up stakes and left.
5
I was in the Green Zone at the end of the Bush administration, in late 2008. All U.S. combat troops were pulling out of Iraq cities and towns before Jan 1, 2009, per agreement between the Bush White House and the Govt of Iraq. From that point forward our troops would sit uselessly (and expensively) in isolated provincial bases. It made perfect sense for the troops to be pulled out in 2011, especially since ISIS had not even appeared as a threat at that time. Yet these facts are never mentioned when Obama is repeatedly criticized by both liberals and conservatives for withdrawing troops "prematurely".
13
Does anyone remember the Taliban ISIS like atrocities inflicted on the Afghani people after the precipitous removal of Soviet Troops and how good we felt when the hated Soviets failed? We may feel good once again at least for a moment when our troops come home, but what will we feel when Trump on a burst of good will is reelected and the atrocities begin again? As this article says playing politics with the lives of our troops and the Afghani people is an atrocity in its self.
I do not know the answer to the eternal Afghani quagmire short of evacuating all its women and children from the killing field before it all begins again, but I do know that this is not the answer though it is perfectly consistent with Trump's quest to win an election at any cost.
This article has done us a great service warning us of Trump's shenanigans long before next October. We can not afford another behind the scenes deal ala the Reagan 1980 Iran deal that held hostages until the day after his election. Are we better than this or will it be just politics as usual.
45
Yea, I feel bad for what the Afghanis will do to themselves. It the problem with dealing with local insurgents like the Taliban is that they don’t have a “there” to go back to. They’re already “there”. Our forces do have a “there” to go back to. And that always winds up being the weakness of an outside power trying to put down a local insurgency. And that dynamic is not going to change.
The problem is that the Afghanis think they own the place. Oh wait ....
Perhaps it is time for Mike Pompeo and Brett Stephens to apologize too Rep. Barbara Lee, the only congressional representative to not against this foolishness in 2001.
It has all happened as foretold, we are there forever.
96
@Duffy...to vote against this foolishness.
1
It’s time we remembered to “take names” as the saying goes. If we survive the catastrophe of this administration, none of the enablers and supporting cast should be forgotten. Reality has shown it will probably not happen, but many are responsible.
35
As always, incisive, comprehensive, and prosaic. Great work Bret!
12
@Dwarkesh Patel Prosaic?
After 17 years of conflict, Afghanistan is no closer to a resolution than it was in March of 2002 when we first attempted to topple Al Qaeda and sever their ties with the Taliban. The atrocities occurring over there cannot be overstated, but we do not have the capacity to change that. It is sadly time for us to consider the time, money, and lives lost over there as a sunk cost and let the region attempt to heal itself.
I am curious how many of Mr. Stephens children are planning on joining the military to continue to fight the good fight in a land far away. It is easy to talk about investing other people's lives; it is much more difficult when it hits close to home. We are long past the time to bring our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines home.
56
@Bill i can answer your question, no Stephens children are planning to join the military and fight in Afghanistan. It's fun to play with other peoples lives.
All military families should take comfort that we only lost 14 last year.
21
@Bill The bonespur president dodged the draft. His father didn't serve, his grandfather left Germany to avoid the draft, none of his siblings seem to have served, and his children did not serve. It's a mistake to criticize anyone's service if you are talking about anything to do with trump.
116
@Kem Phillips Don't mistake my support of ending the forever war as support for our current Commander in Chief. As veteran with multiple deployments who attended more funerals and memorials in my 20s than I did weddings, I will support any politician who is willing to exit this unwinnable quagmire over there. I will truly be disappointed if my children end up running the same patrol routes I did.
26
Our mission in Afghanistan ended when Bin Ladin escaped. Plots against the US can happen in a garret in any city of the world. We have no real enemy there any longer, except opium- which still thrives.
22
This so-called peace agreement between two extremely unreliable partners will be, if it is allowed to be implemented, a disaster for Afghanistan's women. It is sadly no surprise that the fate of the country's 18 million women and girls is of so little interest to the Trump administration that it is willing to condemn them to a bleak and brutal future. And this will happen, there is no doubt about that, unless, perhaps, women (and men) around the world speak quickly and loudly -- to their governments, at the U.N., and through every women's and human rights organization on the planet -- to stop it. If we don't, the images of girls huddling in darkened homes while their brothers go off to school, images of girls married off to men the age of their grandfathers, images of women stoned to death for "adultery," will be partly our fault. There are moments when action is necessary, and this is one of them.
43
@Mary
Don't look now Mary, but women do not fare well in tribal societies. Nor in endless wars.
This is a job for international charities, not the US military.
2
The problem is that no President could set a clear goal for Afghanistan. Here's one I think could work: instead of "Nation Building" the goal should be "Nation Preventing." You tell the military they have one clear goal-- don't let the Taliban rule Afghanistan. Their job is to protect key Afghani areas and make it so the Taliban is forced to live in the shadows. And that is what HAS been happening-- our military has done a great job. They just need to be told that every day they keep the Taliban out is a Victory. As Bret pointed out, the US casualties are not high and unlike Vietnam, their sacrifice has made a difference to so many Afghani people, especially the girls. If we pull out troops, the Taliban will immediately take over, and then every casualty between 2001 and today will be for nothing. Two words: Nation Preventing!
57
@The Last True Liberal
And if we would have the deaths of our soldiers be the criteria for withdrawl we would still be fighting in Vietnam...enough is enough,if we don't end this the numbers will never stop.
@The Last True Liberal
And what skin have you and your family put in the game? If you think our military has done such a great job I suggest you read "The Outpost" to see what kind of leadership the troops who do the real work get from the Colonels and Generals ....who then adorn themselves with medals from shoulder to belly button
I'm not sure, from an intellectual perspective, whether there is lot of value in name-calling and shouting out words like "Secretary of Hypocrisy" in the headline to an opinion piece.
I'm also not certain why there is something inherently wrong about adopting a policy that may be governed by "electoral needs" - which I would interpret as doing what most of the American people actually want. NOT what most people do not want.
Of course, what MOST people want may go against what elites may want - especially since the elites rarely send their sons and daughters off to war. They prefer to think that they're doing their part by owning shares in companies that manufacture the tools of war.
If Mr. Stephens could enumerate the number of countries where incursions by the USA have been successful (compared to all of the times they were not successful), his arguments would be more persuasive.
Name-calling does not cut it.
29
Electoral needs would also include Nixon staying in Vietnam even though he thought he should leave on Kissingers advice that he needed to stay there to win the Presidency. The Iraq invasion to satisfy the anger of the country after 9 11. Electoral needs are not a good reason to sacrifice soldiers.
55
@Maurice Gatien I might agree with what you say except that most Americans would also rather not suffer another 9/11 attack or worse. The Taliban can never be trusted. Any agreement with them is worthless. ANy agreement with them is surrender.
1
@Maurice Gatien
"value in name-calling and shouting out works like Secretary of Hypocrisy."
I am not sure what you mean by "intellectual perspective." Is all of this just an academic or intellectual exercise?
But at any rate, I think Mr. Stephens is just telling the truth. Pompeo is a hypocrite just like The Donald is a hypocrite. Both of them criticize others for doing the same things they do. What is wrong with pointing out the truth?
"electoral needs" "what most of the American people want." The Donald is not concerned about "most of the American people," he is concerned about his base. A major segment of that base are the evangelicals who love Bibi. Our foreign policy in the middle east has been out sourced to Bibi. Bibi hates Iran but doesn't care about Afghanistan. Therefore the trump faithful care about Iran and not Afghanistan.
I agree that we should not get involved in wars because it is easy to get in but difficult to get out and we have not been successful in recent wars. And I agree that the military industrial complex is doing well as are the gun profiteers (NRA and gun makers and sellers).
But that doesn't change the fact that Pompeo is a hypocrite and we are admitting defeat in Afghanistan.
We are running out on a democratically elected government. And that is not an intellectual exercise. It will result in the deaths of real people.
Best wishes.
1
There is a very good reason the forlorn region of our planet labelled Afghanistan on the map is the "graveyard of empires". It exists at an ethnic inflection point between China, India and Pakistan. Tribal identities are stronger than any national identity and no external or internal agent has been able to sustain a national one through conquest or force of will.
Our biggest mistake was thinking we could do what so many earlier conquerors failed to do. Now we are truly in the brier patch.
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@Douglas McNeill
This seems the heart of the issue. The tenacity of tribal identities continues to play out all over the globe and in contexts other than military.
We have failed to learn from history, even lessons so recent as the Soviets' ill-conceived efforts in Afghanistan in the 70's and 80's.
6
@Douglas McNeill
We never thought through very much. It's not like the Republican Presidents that got us into the middle east ever went deeper than 'Thoughts and Prayers' and 'Capitalism and Democracy'. They had all the deep, focused thought of a tuesday night bible study, reading from a guide glibly written 4 decades ago.
We'll always be compromised by planning in the middle east. We will not enforce our own faith at gunpoint, rightfully, but neither will we accept a homegrown theocracy. We're not an empire but we have to be involved. We treat the mideast exactly like American suburbanites treated the city for years - moneyed people must be ok no matter how fascist (Saudi Arabia, Israel) and the rest are treated like cartoon villains in a Batman movie.
It's inherently hypocritical and self-defeating, it's irrational. There is no real plan, just wishful thinking by people who think that good intentions get you into heaven, despite what their own savior said.
5
The comments comparing Afghanistan to Vietnam are...perplexing. The simple truth is that when you invade a country, you need to finish the job, which means making sure that the government installed is stable and not hostile to you. I disagreed strongly with the Bush administration’s decision to go into Iraq but, once we were in, it was incumbent upon us to stay until we could create a stable government there. President Obama’s decision to pull out, at least partly for political reasons, was a disaster. The Viet Cong and North Vietnam had no ambition to harm those outside Vietnam. The same can’t be said about the Taliban. Further, the Viet Minh was a competent governing force, even if it was unacceptable to us at the time. Again, the same cannot be said of the Taliban. Just like a premature and badly executed withdrawal from Iraq has haunted the world, so too will the withdrawal from Afghanistan. The reason we should be much more circumspect about going to war is that not seeing them to completion is more dangerous than doing so...but seeing them to completion is absurdly hard.
23
@Pacific. Here is something that you might want to consider:. A stable government, especially in the middle east, cannot be created from the point of a gun by a foreign power, even if that power is the supposedly super power of the USA. You get it near right at then end when you describe it as absurdly hard, which is, of course, an understatement.
59
@spb
If you’ve read history, you will realise that the ONLY way stable governments have been created ANYWHERE is from the point of a gun (though more is certainly required, including the charade of a “negotiated settlement”) and many, if not most, of the stable governments in existence today were created at the point of an American gun. A lot more, such as an economic development programme is required but force, or the threat of it, I should the basic requirement. After all, the first job of government is guaranteeing the physical safety of its people and the US needs to shoulder that burden for any country it invades until the local government can take over
2
@Pacific Okay go ahead and name "most of the stable governments" that exist today that were created at the point of an American gun. This should be interesting.
37
Stephens is correct. The current Afghan government "does not wantonly massacre its own people, or wage war on its neighbors."
That role has been reserved for us. For every suicide bomber that we do read about, there are several tons of bombs dropped on Afghanistan that we don't read about.
American generals stopped counting the civilian casualties from our efforts. That was left to human right organizations.
And the numbers have gone down, only 5,300 for 2018 compared to only 14 Americans.
Stephens may think that those numbers serve some greater purpose, but never says what it is.
Is it support for the rights of women? Hardly. There were more women in government and university when Afghanistan was ruled by a pro socialist government than there are today.
We destroyed that government (and the opportunities of those women) when we used Afghanistan as our proxy war with the Soviet Union.
So why stay in Afghanistan? Try 35 billion dollars a year in expenditures, much of it going to private contractors as a reason.
Would the military industrial complex that Stephens avidly supports be that crass with human life?
In a word, 'yes.' They always have and always will be. The essence of todays column is 'how could a fellow hawk and war monger break ranks like this'?
For Pompeo, he simply has new wars to start. Iran being first on the list. But first he has to get us out of one in order to ramp up efforts for another.
Stephens and Pompeo, "a pox on both your houses."
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Ok, but let’s not forget that “pro socialist” government was also ruthless and executed thousands of political opponents. Yes, they elevated the status of women and modernized the country, but, as with many other socialist movements back then, it descended into authoritarianism and Stalinism. However, I would love to see a healthy democratic socialist government emerge in Afghanistan. Tell me, do you think that is more likely to occur with US troops safeguarding the country or with the Taliban around to exert its perverted Islamofascism onto its people? The Taliban are anything but socialist.
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Oh please Mr. Stephens, a minimum of logic!
Tere is a takeaway from Vietnam. This is: When US will withdraw any US-supported dysfunctional puppet or "operetta-" regime will collapse immediately - if it is a dysfunctional puppet or "operetta-" regime.
Now to Afghanistan:
Mr. Obama had planned a partial withdrawal reducing the number of troops in Afghanistan only. Mr. Pompeo had opposed this from a military view because he had assessed this reduction as a weakening of power in this country and so as a threat for remaining troops. This is plausible.
As far as I know recent negotiations are about a complete withdrawal of all NATO troops from Afghanistan as soon as possible. This is not to compare with former limited Obama plans about Afghanistan and Iraq so the former opposition of Mr. Pompeo is obsolete in any way.
The only questions to answer is wether this complete withdrawal is reasonable or not in present situation. This is to answer from a political view by analysing the situation not from a perspective of wishful thinking but of checking reality. Too many politician shy away from this in public and behind closed doors hiding behind many secondary or spurious arguments. Surely this assessment has to include the option that Taliban might fully take over. ("Vietnam-solution").The non-participation af official Afghan government in actual talks speaks volumes about the view of US government
This article does nothing to tackle this primarily political question.
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For me to take Stephens seriously he would have to tell me what he proposes going forward that's different from what's been done for the past 18 years.
It's time to get out, being there is counterproductive; it props up a government which is only retains power because of our troop presence and so has no legitimacy.
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@PNBlanco It props up a government that prevents a much more horrible alternative.
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Vietnam and 1973 all over again. Trump continues to follow in Nixon’s footsteps: a corrupt threat to American democracy, while willingly leaving a foreign country to the wolves for near-term political gain. Amazing and sad how history repeats itself. At least with Nixon, Republicans in Congress eventually “got religion” and told Nixon they would impeach him if he didn’t resign. Unfortunately the Republicans in Congress today are too much in love with their cushy, powerful jobs to protect America and impeach Trump.
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@Biggs, do you mean he should have continued US involvement in Vietnam Nam instead of ending it? I don't think that would have been an improvement, actually. We had spent many years, millions of dead of Vietnam's people and over 58,000 dead Americans already. There was never going to be a "good" outcome. And Nixon did not resign over that, but over Watergate. I'm not sure what good we can hope for from our involvement in Afghanistan, but the historical parallel you suggest is not an argument for staying.
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At least Nixon, for all his myriad faults, was a smart, strategic guy. Trump is a moron who is, as Biden likes to note, taking his inheritance - a steadily improving economy, the respect of the world, being a beacon of human rights and decency - and squandering it, just as he did with his daddy’s dollars. The problem? This time it’s America he’s bankrupting.
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@jbi I was not suggesting we should have stayed in Vietnam, but, rather, condemning how we treat/treated these countries and their citizens as our playthings, simply to be tossed aside for political expedience after we broke them. Please remember that Americans are not the only ones to have died in these countries. Many more Vietnamese and Afghans died because of our misguided actions.
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Russia makes the same argument for its military intervention role in Crimea and Ukraine. As a democratic republic, the United States ought not to behave as Israel in subverting the governments of its neighboring states. We are also not an empire. We do not and ought not dictate the shape and form of other independent countries and peoples.
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@Bayou Houma
Surprise! We are an empire...
@Bayou Houma huh? glad you mentioned Israel(not)as you coudn't resist that false analgy. Seems you didn't even read the Stephens column or understand what's at stake here....
A conservative feels it necessary to call out Pompeo's hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is the bread-and-butter of Republicans. All of their decisions are absolutely laced with it.
You say that conservatives realized that we pay a steep price for bugging out of our international commitments. Really? Where was this concern when we bugged out of the Paris Accords and other international environmental pacts? When we downplayed NATO in favor of "better relations" with Russia? When we backed out of a TPP? When we gave up on trying to keep Iran from getting nuclear weapons by "bugging out" of our agreement with them (and with other leading allies)?
Conservatives have no concerns regarding steep prices, commitments, or hypocrisy. All they care about are sound bites, demonizing opponents, pushing discredited theories, and winning elections. That's it. Primarily the last one.
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@AM
Exactly correct. In the right-wing world there is no right or wrong, only interests that can change very quickly.
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@AM
Agree 100%. In one word: power.
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Republicans and neo cons pose more of a danger to the US than the Taliban.
The Taliban cannot be eliminated; they have prevailed. Bu
T the real danger can be totally eliminated in November 2020. Let us pray.
Up till now US policy has been “ Let us prey”.
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The president stopped serving the country long ago. His every thought, word and action is about re-election. Pompeo and the rest of his acting cabinet are campaign workers, using our tax dollars to promote their candidate no matter what the cost.
Any agreement that does not include the Afghan Government means that we will be back there when the Taliban continues its attacks on the people of Afghanistan.
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@Zeke27
Let me correct your statement. The President never started serving this country. It was all about enriching himself and his family and now "his every thought, word, and action is about re-election."
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@Zeke27
I wish there were a way to claw back the money that is spent on Trump's alleged policy public events that just segue into campaign rallies after a handful of on point talking points read from a teleprompter in a sullen voice. After which Trump winds up with the now familiar stand up routine of insults, boasts and lies.
There is only one thing he was ever good at in business, and that was using other people's money in order to affix his name brand on their financed outlay.
He is clearly using all the levers of government and the bank balance provided by the IRS to get his name and presence out there 24/7. Yes, indeed, he has long ago stopped working for us, he's only working for himself. If on any given morning when he wakes up and tests which way the wind is blowing on Fox News, he just might willy nilly light the fuse of abandoning Afghanistan. Of course, he will claim it is Peace In Our Time. I only hope I live long enough for Trump to get his comeuppance of shame.
A Danish former diplomat referred to him as a narcissistic fool. Add to that a world sadist. On our dime.
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@Zeke27
He never served this country. He lied the day he was sworn into office. I despise him, but gave him that one day to maybe change who he is and rise to the demand of the job. On day 2 we heard lies about crowd size and I knew. He has no intention of serving anyone but himself. He is who he ever was. He cares not one whit for America, so why should he care about Afghanistan?
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