Malls may have "killed downtown" eventually, but one of the first of them WAS downtown-Midtown Mall here in Rochester, now long gone but not forgotten.
4
May I recommend the excellent dystopian novel, SEVERANCE by Ling Ma? A group of survivors end up living in an abandoned mall.
4
I live near a large mall, two actually, one more upscale than the other. I used to love to go to them, but for the past several years I have noticed that recent immigrants from the third world tend to roam in packs.
More proof that the melting pot is over and we now have many nationalities who have no interest in assimilation or even speaking to each other in English.
8
I wonder what is the impact of our carbon footprint each time we order something online vs going to the "mall"?
3
I grew up in Manhattan in the 1960s and 1970s. We didn't have malls, but you could easily walk from B. Altman's to Lord and Taylor's and then up to Best and Co. Especially at Christmas, these stores had beautiful and magical displays. All of these stores are gone now.
21
It's a "Dawn of the Dead" world, and has been for decades.
2
Romanticized hogwash.
Malls were are an incubated waste land. A terrarium for humans whose sole purpose was to make you buy clothes and home goods you don't need while eating fried food, tubs of ice cream and enormous cookies. You could also be stampeded there on Black Friday, for a change of pace. A great place to discover American values--a flat screen TV is worth more to most Americans than a stranger's life.
Good riddance to them all.
16
I would just feel better if my Amazon purchases were shipped together instead of individually packaged. I feel really stupid when the delivery person pulls up in a big truck, walks all the way to my door, waits for me to open it and gives me my little package with (for example) watch batteries. I don't know if they do it like that in America, but here in France, they separate your order to ship what they have on stock first and there is no option for waiting for it all to arrive at once.
And yeah, basically, as a foreigner living in France I have never loved Amazon more!
4
One more thing to love about Concord, NH, the small city I live in now. Our Main Street is alive and thriving. It is only a mile from my house and has clothing stores, shoes stores (even a shoe repair), restaurants, banks etc. One block down the hill is the nearest grocery store. We have two book stores here, a record store, live theatre in two venues, a farmers market every Saturday on the street next to the state capitol building (and in an interior square across the street in the winter). Only a couple of miles the other direction is the nearest farm with fresh veggies, local meats and cheeses etc. There are even llamas to enchant children. And that is only the nearest one. Shopping is fun again and walking along Main Street past sculpture displays and sidewalk cafes is like visiting a European city. I don't care that our big mall is mostly dead and I don't drive to Walmart and all the other outlying big box stores. And I almost never shop online! I like to feel the goods and try on any clothes I may buy. The one exception is Tom's shoes because they fit perfectly, are incredibly comfortable and cheap, and the choices are huge.
We visited Seattle recently where we had lived during our working lives and you can keep it. Miss my friends but not the weather and definitely not the traffic. And then there are the housing costs! One can buy an amazing house here for $300,000 to $500,000 right in town, not the Seattle average of over a million.
5
I’ve never seen shopping as entertainment, starting with being dragged along to ‘downtown' with my mother. The first malls to hit North Dakota had the one advantage of being enclosed, eliminating the need to go in and out of the frigid or steamy outdoors. At high-school age I was fascinated that people would flock to the malls citing the convenient parking without ever seeming to realize that they were walking further from their cars than they would have downtown.
‘Personal service’ in shoe stores didn’t much matter when they never had my extra wide size, but would try to convince me that the shoes were stretch when I knew that wasn’t really going to happen. Now, in my 60s I can finally order shoes that actually fit me online. I can also buy the clothing that I like in my size, and all of my household ‘dry goods’ without being glared at by people who don’t know that my weight is caused by disability, and is not the reason I need to use a scooter.
There is no way that I would be able to stay in my own home if it weren’t for online shopping. I would have to drive 70 miles each to reach my nearest shopping towns. That would also produce way more emissions than having UPS stop on the rural route they already cover every day. All I need to (and can) buy locally are perishable food and lumber.
11
I remember Midtown Plaza, an indoor shopping mall in downtown Rochester, New York, reportedly the first urban indoor mall in the United States. There was a Clock of Nations which represented 12 nations, with puppets for each nation; a miniature "Small World" exhibit, if you will. The Plaza included a skyscraper office building and an upscale hotel and restaurant, the Top Of The Plaza, on its top four floors. Count Basie, Buddy Rich, Gap Mangione and many other jazz artists played there. Interestingly, The Plaza's developer blamed commercial suburban malls for its demise.
3
Get ready for the return of malls. Now that we're in the beginning of serious climate change people will need to spend lots of time indoors for survival.
3
@Ellen F. Dobson
I hope so!! I miss the old malls!
1
Malls helped destroy themselves by becoming nothing but chain stores. Early malls had chain anchor stores, but all the stores between them were locally owned and reflected the region. A mall in San Francisco had different stuff than a mall in Dallas. A mall in St. Louis had different stuff than a mall in New York. Then the chains came in and all the malls in all of America became exactly alike. I used to like visiting malls when I travelled because they were different in each part of the country. Then they became all the same.
51
Changes are bigger and faster than they ever used to be. In a few decades people will be nostalgic about Snapchat, Facebook and Amazon.
15
It is so sad to see the near empty malls.
Very few stores left.
They all have a sad apocalyptic feel.
Malls killed small towns, but now Amazon has killed malls.
Amazon and the NRA. People are afraid to go out to malls.
It's kind of creepy to buy online. I miss talking to clerks.
America is going to the dogs if you ask me.
20
in NYC malls are designed to discourage casual foot traffic - seemingly every mall sortie is 100% focused on: pick merchandise, pay for merchandise, get merchandise out - wait!?!?!? - that's actually a good thing
That McDonald's is still there, looking just about the same. Of course, now you can have one of the online delivery services pick up your burgers...
4
An Australian-based Facebook group called Old Shops Australia is nearly 50,000 members strong and is similar to the ones mentioned in the article. Old Shops Australia shares the same nostalgia for retro retail memories and commercial nostalgia. Mall operator Westfield was founded in Australia, after all. They also have a Twitter page @oldshopsoz
3
Let's see. When I was like 5 years old a mall was the only place to buy toys or video games. They had gourmet popcorn, gourmet cookies, beautiful movie theaters, swanky clothing stores, beautiful fountains, beautiful book stores, wonderful home stores.
Fast forward and now malls have overpriced garbage food that makes you sick, video game stores with horrible selection, eyewear stores owned by a monopoly, run-down movie theaters, clothing stores full of garbage made in China, dirty run-down stores and walkways that are over-lit and devoid of any stores I actually want to visit with terrible selection.
When I was a kid the mall was like Disneyland. Now it's like wandering through the wrong part of town. Things I don't want sold at prices I can't afford bought by people I don't like (pretentious superficial materialistic people).
16
I'd like to see the empty malls and stores turned into mental hospitals and housing for homeless, the empty parking lots used for drifting competitions and flat track motorcycle races.
18
I recommend a book called: "Bowling Alone."
Enlightening & eye-opening.
10
The most recent season of Stranger Things, set in a mall when the mall was still new, and somehow the social, ‘in’ place to be, succeeded in being surprisingly nostalgic (for someone who despises malls). A sure sign of the times.
2
Cannot photograph inside or outside of malls in LA! Want to stand on the top level at Santa Monica Mall, face the Pacific Ocean just yards away and take photos? CANNOT. I begged their management, but they are stubborn about that!
Want to photograph a cool window display in Beverly Center. CANNOT.
We cannot even create new memories.
As a widely published photographer of early punk, in venues long gone or changed, I wish I had shot more architecture, and not just early punks. Now that I appreciate items other than people, I, like many, are prohibited from taking photos.
Several years ago, I told employees at the Santa Monica Civic Auditoriums, who held a 50th Anniversary before being shuttered due to lack of now mandated earthquake support, about a previous photo restriction.
Photographers were not only prohibited from photographing shows, they were escorted out of shows when they were caught with their cameras. Those employees were stunned to realize that's why they couldn't get many photos of historic rock shows. They couldn't understand that policy.
(I was able to supply photos of the Clash, March 1980, only because I had the band's permission to shoot from the stage. No way could I shoot from the floor, my preferred and usual way of documenting shows.)
Now it's worse. WHY? It's weird that Google can and does photograph most everywhere. Yet we the people cannot photograph malls and many other places.
Talk about losing our culture! Nuts, eh?
24
@Jenny Lens
I don't see how they would enforce this no photography rule when everyone has an iPhone with a camera attached.
7
We used to go there for the AC and the boys. I don’t know where we got all that time to go to the mall. I guess the time got sucked into my cell phone.
14
When people went shopping with family and friends, they wore their best clothes and enjoyed talking with companions on the way to malls. At the shopping sites they were seeing a lot of goods by consulting each other and bought ones which were the best for them. Shopping was the good opportunity for conversation. Shopping malls gave us the space and opportunity for communication. Now people buy goods with online shopping by themselves. They have got convenience but lost the opportunity for communication.
12
As others have mentioned suburban malls destroyed main street in many small towns and cities.
I am old enough to remember life before malls. I lived in a medium sized Canadian city for the times, and was about 11 when I was allowed to take the bus 'downtown' on my own. There were the two great department stores, and all the smaller specialty stores full of treasure. My teenage group of buddies found this a wonderful way to spend a Saturday afternoon. After sorting through the clothrs, lingering at the cosmetics counter at Woolworths we would descend on the record and fabric stores.
Malls came, but it wasn't the same.
23
I loved going to the mall growing up. It was a magical place to get away from our parents, try on clothes that we were not allowed to wear, try on make up that had to be scrubbed off before going home, and hang out with your friends and flirt with guys. The suburban malls around where I live now is completely packed after changing the store mix to include theaters, restaurants, gyms, rooftop bars, banks. It's good that the malls have found a second life.
8
There's nothing magical about malls. People are just remembering their youth and longing for days gone by. Generations before us got misty-eyed over their memories, and people after us will wax sentimental long after we're dead.
13
@Madeline Conant
Malls served the purpose of a 'village square' for many. I think a common area, where everyone can hang out, buy and sell stuff, meet people, etc. is a fundamental need of the domesticated human animal.
When we all shop online, or otherwise anonymously at big box stores, we lose something we've evolved to have over thousands of years.
16
@Matt
Although I will admit to being surprised to see an actual "hosiery" store in the big photo on this story. I thought those went out with Maureen O'Hara and the big urban department stores of my youth.
4
If anyone watched the latest season of Stranger Things, you'd have seen a mall with a video games store, food court, and movie theater. There was a storyline where the local market was losing business to a big chain store.
Malls these days serve their purpose. In LA, most of the high-end malls (like The Grove or Westfield Century City) are there so people can show off their make-up looks or clothing while shopping. The Grove doesn't have a food court and none of the food offered there is cheap; Century City has a food court with many expensive (read more than $15 for a meal) options. The only thing CC has going for it as far as I'm concerned is the Gelson's market because most of the stores there are part of a national chain. And, sadly, for some, these are some of the few public spaces they can walk around in a city like LA.
Years ago, I worked in San Francisco at the flagship Banana Republic store which Gap hadn't changed yet. It was decorated as a jungle with animals (giraffe looking worse for wear) and still sold clothing that had some relation to safaris. I don't think any store would go to that much trouble for their brand identity unless it's a LV or Gucci these days.
4
When I was a child we would go shopping in a thriving downtown retail area. The hustle and bustle on the streets was exciting. The malls killed those downtown areas.
I still shopped at the alter of the mall and did like the fact that there were a variety of stores all in one location and that I didn't have to deal with the elements until I went back to my car.
As I've gotten older I am not able to walk very far these days and malls do not offer electric mobility carts to get around their very large spaces so I now tend to avoid them.
Being a person who loves to see and touch what I'm buying I do miss shopping in person. Buying online isn't as much fun but it is necessary these days. I even use the shop online/ pick up at store option for routine purchases. Pictures online do not always show exactly what you are getting.
As for the state of American retailI it has been my opinion that we've been overstored for a very long time. We have too many branches of the same stores in every location and too many stores period. An adjustment needed to happen. Everyone seemed to be practicing the MacDonald's model of having a store within 15 minutes of wherever you are.
What I don't understand is why we don't convert some of the older shopping plazas full of empty stores into housing for the homeless? Zoning laws are man made and can be remade.
25
When I was a child growing up in the 60's, my grandmother taught me how to shop "online". It was called the Sears & Roebuck Catalog. We would spend hours going through the new edition each year daydreaming about new sofa sets or the latest washer and dryer. Everything in grandma's home came from that catalog.
As for malls? My only memories are as a teenager hanging out at the mall in the dead of winter because it was that or sit at home with my mother. We didn't shop. We didn't have any money. We just walked around, sat around, looked at each other, gossiped, and went home.
I quit going to malls long before I can remember an internet. They started going downhill decades ago and one by one, good stores were leaving being filled with lesser quality. And the food kept getting worse and worse. The places always seemed dark, dank, and crowded. Not my idea of a good time. And then, people started shooting up the malls because the local street gangs hung out there.
No thanks.
8
With the exception of the anchor stores, I never liked malls. There were a lot of people with glazed eyes wandering around, just like inn Dawn of the Dead. I even worked in my local mall in high school—at a GAP like store and a coffee place. Luckily, there was still in-town shopping where I grew up and the anchor stores at the mall where good ones.
But it was also clear that malls helped kill off many downtown areas. But for some they were important places. I truly dislike shopping for clothes online though. I want to feel the fabrics and see the cut and the drape, even if I don’t try them on in the store. It is ironic that many of us are evening grudgingly nostalgic for the mall!
12
The Mall was a thing between 1970 and now. It died along with "retail" as a concept. It still exists in each major area, but only as a high end concept, selling things you need to try on first or see in person. The rest is Amazon and other sellers on line.
In every town, there is ONE high end mall left. You'll find Nordstrom or the equivalent there....but the days of Sears, Kmart, or anything like that, are gone.
I recall when there were actual freedom of speech in malls discussions....the idea was the mall was the town center, rebutted by the mall is private property.
Ghost Malls are a great internet search.
1
Anyone interested in a thriving mall should check out the Crossroads mall in Bellevue, WA. Growing up, I saw this mall go through ups and downs, including the caving in of its roof during a winter with heavy snow, but it's been on its way up for close on 2 decades now.
What makes it different? Lots of community events (e.g. game nights, concerts, community group gatherings), venues where people have to go anyway to conduct business (e.g. the DMV, library branch, and town hall branch), and a variety of ethnic mom-and-pop food kiosks. It also hosts a farmers market, some gyms, and a theater nearby so all places people would want to linger near.
The mall is busier than fancier ones nearby because of how the owners envisioned their mall would be.
10
I grew up on Long Island in the 50's. One of the earliest malls was outside Hempstead. Roosevelt Field? They had a Horn and Hardardt (sp). We didn't go there much (if at all) and typically shopped in various local/nearby "downtowns" in Garden City, Stewart Manor or New High Park. I'm trying to elicit some nostalgia for some of this but I can't. My mother didn't drive. My father was a no nonsense get the shopping done kind of guy. No meet and greet your neighbors experience.
I think we all remember malls and downtowns through the prism of our childhoods.
Now I live near a mall. Never liked it. The stores are chains and nothing is very interesting. No little energetic local shops. I only go there when I absolutely need to find something specific.
Recently we visited our daughter and her husband in Seattle. The Ballard and Fremont neighborhoods have a vibrant downtown with interesting, creative small locally owned shops. Just so enjoyable to walk down the street. Our daughter went into a dress store where they knew her and greeted her like an old friend. I kept thinking, what a great place to live.
Of course my son in law works for Amazon - my go-to place for almost everything now.
9
When the big mall went up near where I grew up (cheap and fast construction), I thought, “this will become an abandoned, neglected blight in my lifetime. Sadly, they made the decision to cut down an amazing VERY old maple tree that three people couldn’t wrap their arms around just to make room for a couple more cars in their giant pre-planned parking lot. My nostalgia will forever be for that tree, never the mall.
Surprisingly it (the mall not the tree) achieved second and third lives through various desperate measures. It still stands yet.
10
My first job was at a single location family run ice cream store at the Montgomery Mall in suburban Philadelphia in the early 80s. As i recall, at the time there many small family run shops mixed with the anchor stores and chains. As kids we loved going there, it was a relatively safe gathering spot, and they had a great arcade 'the space port' where I spent many hours losing quarters But eventually all was replaced by chain stores. And now the chains are being replaced by online shopping.
There is undeniably value to being able to shop in person at a physical location. And here in San Diego, the malls for the most part, are doing just fine. The UTC mall has doubled in size and is still growing. Skating rink, movie theater, soon to be trolley stop connecting to downtown, etc.
That being said, I don't go to malls unless I have to, and I don't feel particularly nostalgic about them. Did they begin the destruction of the 'downtown'? Yes. And as big retailers are driven out of business by online shopping, the downtowns may return with stuff you just cant buy online.
8
I grew up in Lansdale and also went to the Montgomery Mall, but in the 90s. My mother tells me it's still there, but she hasn't gone in years. I used to go for Electronics Boutique, which was a regional video game/PC game store until it was bought by a national chain. I also remember the great (though expensive) book store upstairs as well. I wouldn't call this nostalgia, merely remembering. The mall had it's day and it's time to demolish, recycle and build something useful like a park or reforest.
3
The article reminds us of the destructive slave based American strain of Capitalism, in which efficiency per unit of labor drives all decisions. The transit from local, single purpose, fully staffed shops, to the "modern' big box store where you can stand in the middle of an isle and scream your lungs out to no avail for an employee to help, only shows that the corporate owners understand that the boxes too are merely transitional, and conversion to fully online shopping with largely robotic warehousing and delivery is inevitable.
Jobs anyone?
7
I am not much of a shopper. I didn't hang out at malls growing up in the 80's and 90's. It's funny because I go to the mall all the time now We have a lovely outdoor mall that is well integrated into our downtown. I go there at least once a week to run errands, browse, eat, and people watch. I'll park in a nearby park, pop into the library, and then walk along the streets in the downtown and go to the bookstore, the shoe store, consignment shops, charity run thrift shops, the bakery, and then walk to the mall to buy what I need. If it's Sunday, I might stop at the farmers market. On my way back, I might stop for lunch, a drink at a bar, or at the cafe to read for a while. Occasionally I will walk over to Target, which is at the opposite end of downtown from the mall. It's great! It feels like a city, not a mall.
10
@Abby I am not much of a shopper either. It's shocking to go out to the mall and find it is nearly abandoned.
I live within walking distance of a mall, and it's doing fine. Building a whole new wing, actually.
it has normal stuff like a new Target, Barnes and Noble, and the obligatory jewelry store with diamonds and Rolex's, (The Sears closed though.)
It also has high end stuff (to me) like a North Face store and a Whole Foods.
The movie theater is clean and comfortable too.
My favorite thing about it is that it mixes indoor and outdoor spaces well with plenty of seating, pedestrian and bike-friendly paths, and gathering areas where they'll have live music. The restaurants are scattered throughout with indoor and outdoor seating and a wide variety. From the obligatory Starbucks to several bars and the whole range of dining options. Decent sushi, even.
It really could use an art gallery or three focusing on local artists, but, that's just me...
And this is all in Albuquerque, NM. Hardly a glowing metropolis.
8
@Matt We had a few nice malls like this in our town. Both are almost abandoned now. It's shocking. It really destroys the feeling of any community.
3
I did all my teen shopping in Roosevelt Field Mall. Now it seems that all the stores are high end. It used to be fun.
4
My dad worked at a small-town men's clothing store he could walk to until the new mall on the edge of town put the downtown stores out of business. This led to a steady turnover of downscale replacements for the old stores. Meanwhile, within a few years, vacancies began to appear in the mall and lasted longer. Finally the mall closed and most people now shop on line or drive much further to upscale, specialty malls. Progress?
8
I grew up and graduated from high school in Paradise, California. Among the thousands of buildings destroyed by the fire there last fall was Stratton's Market, a small grocery store owned for generations by the same family. A member of the family posted "before and after" photos on a Facebook page devoted to the town's recovery. That post elicited hundreds of memories from people who remembered shopping there with their mothers (usually during the summer months, when moms had to lug their kids along for the weekly grocery run).
All of us remembered the distinct, not unpleasant smell of the store -- a mixture of fresh produce, yeast and newspaper ink. We remembered the cement floors. We remembered that in addition to meat, fruit and vegetables, you could also buy toys and a three-pack of Hanes T-shirts. We remembered that hay was kept out back for the customers who needed horse feed. One guy even remembered pocketing a Hershey bar and then, when his father found out, being marched back to reimburse and apologize to Mr. Stratton personally.
What struck me about the "before" photo was how physically small the store seemed. In my memory, it had been a huge emporium of possibility. As far as I know, there are no plans to rebuild. But it's clear that it remains in the minds and hearts of many.
31
The mall killed downtowns. Do I rue that fact? Yes. Malls were anti-septic privatized spaces that, compared to downtowns, did not encourage or facilitate neighbor interactions and the sense of neighborhood. First, one had to drive to a mall, which killed biking and walking in the neighborhood. Malls also attracted people from many different towns, so it was rare to see someone you knew at the mall, unlike a typical downtown where you were more than likely to run into someone you knew.
Having said all that though, do I welcome the new world of internet shopping?
No!!
This is far worse. At least with malls, there is human interaction. I would prefer downtowns to malls, but now we will just stare at our computers and phones all day?
Sure, NY and other big cities will probably still have downtowns where humans interact, but most of the US will not, and not only will the internet kill malls, but what is left of the struggling downtowns all across America.
I don't like where we're heading.
25
@Sirlar Thankfully some city planners are starting to catch on to the fact that automobiles destroyed community and are zoning car-free areas for food carts, parks, farmers markets, etc.
The thing is, there are some things that you just can't buy online, and those things are having a bit of a renaissance. In addition, even Amazon now has physical stores to provide a better shopping experience.
2
Malls killed downtown shopping. It is appropriate that they now, in turn, decline as a result of online shopping.
11
If Marc Z really wants to reinvent Facebook as he says he would stop invading the privacy of everyone on and off the platform. Until he does that his words ring hollow. Sad.
7
@Jerrold Spiegel are you The Jerrold Spiegel who lived as a young child in Clearview, Whitestone, NY??? If you are, you are part of my family mythology!!!
I grew up going to the mall and remember it fondly. It was where I first got a taste of independence, when my parents dropped me off to hang out on a Friday night. But I wouldn't count malls out yet. Try visiting a suburban CA mall on a weekend. It's hard to find parking, and the stores are packed. They are thriving by catering to immigrant communities. Our local mall has delicious, authentic Chinese food, Instagram-friendly dessert stalls and stores featuring Korean beauty products, Japanese fashion, etc. in addition to the regular mall stores like Macys and Hollister. It seems to be a winning formula.
8
When I started high school I started shopping at Klopfenstein's menswear store where I first met Nick, a person who had an unerring eye to make you look great. He migrated to the Tacoma Mall when it opened. The mall is still there but the store isn’t, unfortunately. Of all the stores I’ve ever shopped in Klopfenstein’s was my favorite.
3
Malls replaced downtown shopping in midsize cities that came to be regarded as "unsafe" in the 1970s. My grandmother used to take the bus to Trenton, NJ. She often carried a bag from the expensive store in town and used it to carry purchases from John's Bargain Store, the forerunner of the dollar stores. One day, the high school kids ran around the town. I am not certain anything so serious happened, but it frighten her and she never set foot in town again. In addition to safety, suburban malls offered free parking that could be a problem in town. I recall the Cherry Hill, NJ, Mall that was an early single story mall that featured many fountains, lush tropical plants, and a huge aviary of various kinds of birds that chirped away. The place was quite a wonder to me in the 1960s.
I most regret the loss of the Philadelphia John Wanamaker Store with its palatial building, 1,400 seat restaurant, and the largest working pipe organ in the world that was played regularly. As the population of Philadelphia declined and suburbanites chose local malls, this passed through various ownership with Macy's now operating on the three floors not turned into office space.
Designer clothing has been a bane to shoppers. Formerly, I could go the pants department where racks were arranged by size. Now one has to visit a number of boutiques where things are displayed by color with the size label carefully hidden in the back of the pile.
18
@David I'm glad that I had the opportunity to go to Wanamaker's flagship store before it closed. I was also lucky enough to go to Garfinkle's in DC before it closed. There was something special about shopping at both stores.
I remember going to a stand-alone Bonwit Teller's with my grandmother in Scarsdale when I was a child; that was in the 70s. My grandmother would take me to lunch in the store's restaurant and then to shop for a present on my birthday.
8
It is no small irony that malls were widely derided as the death of small town America, and now we are bathing ourselves in grief over their demise.
27
I have lived in nyc for 16 years and I still crave the mall setting all of my adolescent years took place in once in a while. The week before Christmas I make it a point to shop at my childhood mall. People look at me like I am crazy when I say this but there’s a weird sense of nostalgia that washes over me. It’s an equalizer - no matter what, you’ll have the low, mid and high priced stores housed in the same building, a taco bell and a 4 star steakhouse (ok that’s a stretch) , people from all types of neighborhoods... all in line at Auntie Anne’s together. It’s wonderful.
3
@christina - I'm sure the mall decorates for Christmas, too.
Online shopping stinks. It’s no fun at all compared to traditional retail shopping. You can’t pick up the item and examine it. You can’t smell it or taste it. Shipping all these online purchases is worse for the environment. Millions of people have lost their jobs. All so Amazon could make one person, Jeff Bezos, filthy rich. Good for him but not good for everyone else. Shop local and you’ll help your community and yourself.
75
@Mike L
There's nowhere left locally here beyond thrift stores including Goodwill.
4
@Mike L
To each his own. Thanks to online shopping including food delivery, my weekends are now free for pleasurable activities.
2
@Mike L - "Shop local and you’ll help your community and yourself."
Um, I live in Seattle and shopping Amazon IS shopping local:)) All of those Amazonian hipsters, as we call them, have pocketsfull of money that they throw all over town buying overpriced coffee at trendy little shops, boutique clothing stores, nightclubs, concert tickets, etc. And Amazon has done lots for construction workers around here starting a building craze that has gone on for years now.
As for online shopping? I love it. I don't have to put on shoes, find parking, fight traffic, walk and walk and walk and still find nothing, or get followed around the store by security simply because I enter the store with a backpack and hoody on (standard Seattle attire). And I don't have to carry all of those bags back or eat that lousy foodcourt food or drink the godawful coffee. I don't have to worry about getting shot at the mall. There were gun shots fired at one area mall as recently as last February. And another mall to the north had a shooting leaving 5 dead. Here is video of shopping at the downtown Target store. Again, this isn't likely to happen shopping online.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/video-shows-man-on-destructive-rampage-in-downtown-seattle-target-store/836808092
3
When I first moved to Atlanta about 50 years ago, the Southdale Mall in N Atlanta, had people taking buses from Alabama for women from there to shop at the mall. They stayed in very nice motels that were across the street from the mall. After dinner these ladies would go to the meet and greet night spots nearby. While at one of these M & G places with some friends, they invited some of these ladies to sit at our table. They told us how great the shopping was and how much they liked all they had seen. It became very obvious that they were M & G newbies as their home towns were not as advanced socially as N Atlanta was. No further contacts were made but WOW was it great seeing how social change took place. I had just moved from the Upper East Side of NYC and single men were a rare commodity and the pill had just became available. Fun was had by all!
2
Oh how I miss driving to the mall, looking for parking, walking into the mall, going from shop to shop to shop, not finding everything I need, returning to my car, which now has a new ding in it, so I can drive to another mall to do this all over again. Much better than going online, clicking here and there and having what I need delivered to me, and for less money.
You still driving around in a horse 'n buggy?
33
Florsheim Shoes was my favorite shoe store! I miss it!
9
As a kid in the mid 1970s, I really enjoyed going to Shopper's World in Framingham. You walked outside to go from store to store which was quite refreshing. The massive domed ceiling in the Jordan Marsh was also a highlight of the trip. It looked liked a spaceship from the outside.
11
@misterdangerpants I remember Shopper’s World as well. Was that the one with the open to the weather center court? With kid’s rides? I was young and might have it mixed up with the Natick Mall.
Generation after generation people have waxed nostalgic over long since vanished or altered beyond recognition built worlds of their younger days. What will future generations wax nostalgic over? Long since vanished or altered beyond recognition web portals?
17
@Leigh As someone who came of age in the 90's and became a career web developer over the last decade, yes!
Before the rise of MySpace, Facebook, and social media platforms (commonly referred to as "Web 2.0"), you actually had to learn a new language in order to have your own dedicated web space. You had to put far more thought and effort into crafting a "shrine" to whatever it is you were interested in.
And prior to responsive design taking over (for the sake of smartphones and tablets), everyone's website had its own unique creative direction as well.
I'm not knocking today's usability standards by any means, but do a quick google search of "90's internet nostalgia" and you'll find that many are definitely waxing nostalgic over that time period, and for good reason.
12
@Leigh, video games.
1
Let's use Macy's as an example of what went wrong with retail.
Dayton's, the beloved local downtown Minneapolis department store, became a Macy's. The service tanked, the product lines became homogenized across the country and the once-beautiful store fell into disrepair and eventually closed.
In San Francisco, Macy's Union Square once occupied as much square footage as a Costco. It became a fool's errand trying to find anything among all the junk crammed onto racks. The service was atrocious and the sale pricing schemes were annoying. I stopped going 20 years ago and since then they've closed their freestanding men's store.
Macy's turned shopping there into a tedious, aggravating chore. I don't know how they're still in business.
67
@Randy - Macy’s parent company also bought the historical Kaufman’s department store in Pittsburgh and drove it into the ground. And as the final nail in the coffin they changed the name to Macy’s. People almost immediately responded with a big drop off in interest even in the huge flagship store downtown. The flagship closed a couple of years ago although some of the suburban stores are hanging on. Those corporate geniuses just couldn’t fathom that Pittsburghers wanted to shop at Kaufman’s not Macy’s (gasp!) and wanted good inventory and good service.
21
@Randy I remember when a trip to Chicago meant that my mother and I would spend a day at Marshall-Field's, which was bigger and had much more stylish inventory than we had at Shillito's in Cincinnati. Now Marshall Field's in Macy's and so is Shillito's. The Miracle Mile no longer seems the same. And, oh how I miss Filene's Basement! Filene's is on-line now, but you really can't rummage around in a website.
14
@Jim - concur there are Vogons amongst us
I grew up in the 50s in Queens and the Bronx and still remember the candy stores we hung around ,the bakery where they gave you a slice of rye bread and the playgrounds. We only shopped when it was time for new school clothes. When Gloria Vanderbilt stitched her name on the back of a pair of jeans is when brands were marketed malls created and you were taken somewhere instead of walking with friends alone. Now the NYT runs an article on how to let your kids play . We never needed to learn.
16
I must be old but I remember that it was the shopping malls that caused the death of Main St., America; and killed downtown shopping.
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@Eliza Similar to what another has said, how will future generations reflect on this current era? Will there be inappropriate respect like the one you're referring to? Will people in the 2040s say "Oh back in the teens when Trump made America great!"????
I wonder.
5
Spaceport!
1
I grew up in the 80's. I attempted to let your article elicit some fond nostalgia but it didn't happen. Spending time at malls may be a little bit like golf-people now find it time consuming and expensive. Those most likely extracted a considerable percentage from the retailers. Perhaps the society should morph away from our programmed obsession with consumption.
11
@Boards
As a Gen Xer, I agree 100% with your comment.
3
@Boards
As another GenXer, I agree 100% with your comment and second Left Coast's comment. There was never anything great about the mall. It was where our parents dropped off us so we could be bored and get into (minor) trouble without having to bother them with it.
I love shopping online and never, ever voluntarily shop in person for anything except groceries.
9
@Boards
Well that is to bad, we never went to the malls often because we only had one car, my father needed it for work. For school shopping we took the F train to 34th street and if we couldnt find it in Macys then it wasnt going to be found. We walked up and down 5th avenue. We didnt have much money so we spent a great deal of time awing over the clothes we couldn't buy but my mom was talking and having a good time interacting with the people in the store.
. When we did get to the malls, we were able to ride on the pony if we had a quarter and eat at the Nedicks we were in love with the toasted roll. bread. I remember those days and the good times we had.
I am sorry that your memories are not as vivid and fun as many of the comments here are.
7
Amazon is a monopoly, and should be regulated by the federal government. Having said that, I must say that retail purchases at the Mall were vastly inferior to Amazon.
The writer here mentions social interactions from retail purchases at the Mall. Loss of that may have indeed degraded society in some way.
However, reading customer reviews that aid your purchase online makes buying an infinitely better, more well-informed, more efficient experience.
Also, every retailer at the Mall has a crucial limit, and that is shelf space. Online has multiple warehouses where customers do not tread. Hence, they offer much more selection.
The Mall and stores in its proximity could dictate to consumers, especially about things like return policy. Online retailers do much more volume, a key to its business model, and are much more generous about returns.
In addition, driving to the Mall is not environmentally friendly.
I am wary of Amazon. I don't like the way they treat their low-level employees.
I might add that the rise of Costco (who does treat employees well), has made shopping at the Mall a rare occurrence for me. And then there are new and used articles on eBay.
Hence, retail purchases are a much better experience nowadays than at the Mall. Those Mall companies, run by a gaggle of MBAs were not going to do you any favors.
10
I've read several articles on how amazon treats their workers and it is horrifying. I really hate to support them, but like many Americans, I do not have many choices anymore. The malls are desolate and the downtown shops are mostly closed now.
1
@Wordsworth from Wadsworth I worked a season at Amazon and it wasn't that bad.
I can't go to Costco because I have two bad knees and walking on the cement floor is excruciating.
@Wordsworth from Wadsworth
I worked in Customer service for Amazon during the last year I was able to work. They were the best employer I ever had. I started as a seasonal temp, and was hired as a regular employee from there. The location I was working at had way more local employees than any of the box stores.
Among other things:
They actually allowed customer service reps enough autonomy to correct problems without having to leave people on hold while creeping up the chain of command, and wanted to have a good resolution to any problems.
They also encouraged changing departments and positions so there was no sense of being stuck forever at one job,
They were particular about volume and quality of work, but considered both in evaluations instead of just the quantity.
There were excellent benefits, and when I suddenly became ill my health insurance was continued without my normal contribution, and with no claw-back when I wasn't able to come back to work. They offered a variety of accommodations that would have eased me back into work. I just wish I had been able to keep working for them.
3
I'm pretty sure I was one of Amazon's first customers. Same when JCPenney went online. Many years ago I did all of my holiday shopping online, and my wife thought I was being crazy.
I am a misanthrope. I can't stand interacting with random humans. I despise shopping. I go to Home Depot at 9:30 pm, when most of the other customers and nearly all of the "helpful" employees are gone so that I can quickly and efficiently get what I need and get out of there. I am FAR from alone.
Buying on the net was the net thing. Malls opened in the 50's, and individual small stores and downtowns got wiped out. Then big box stores started eating or dominating malls. Now the net is taking them both out. It was the natural speeding-up of the catalog. Only it was continually updated and not made of paper.
One day, someone might invent some form of buying stuff that is better than interacting with a computer and having things anonymously dumped on your front doorstep. But I can't imagine what it is yet. I like the new paradigm. They will find a use for all that mall space in many cities. High density housing comes to mind.
22
I'm going to the Mall tomorrow and plan to enjoy the outing. A free chocolate from Godiva, a visit to the jewelry store for my sister, and maybe a glass of wine at Belk while I peruse the shoe department. I've been visiting malls for years (and years). I order online as well but always would rather buy (and shop) in person.
11
Free parking at the mall is what killed the downtown. Not only free, but you pulled right into the spot. No parallel parking.
Do not underestimate what a hassle it was worrying about how much time you had on the meter. If moderately sized cities could have figured out a better setup than the dreaded Parking Authority, they might still be in business.
35
@itsmildeyes I do everything I can to avoid shopping in "town" if I can shop at a mall that has easy, free, parking, right next to the store. Currently the battery of my Swiss watch has died. In the 20 years since I bought it, I have always taken it to the overpriced downtown Princeton jewelry store where I got it to have the battery changed, since they convinced me only their "jewelers" could handle the job (including properly re-seal for waterproofing). I usually have to surrender the watch for at least a week and it costs around $100. All the family's cheap watches I take to the local mall where they change the battery for $10 and re-seal for $25. This morning I realized I'm just not in the mood to circle the block looking for a parking spot, figure out how to pay for it (no more coins) and then walk in the heat to the jewelry store. I think I'll just take it to the mall. Unlike the jewelry store, the kiosk is open until 9 pm. Just maybe make sure not to fall into a pool with it afterwards.
6
I enjoy shopping/browsing in the “town” and the over priced jewelry store has fixed my vintage Swiss watch when every other place I took it too said it was impossible. I was so happy! Sometimes you do get what you pay for.
For me, malls represent the start of shopping as a leisure activity which continues to confound me. It replaced people going outside to recreate. It was the beginning of the mess we have now: trees cut for parking lots, suburban sprawl, driving more, buying stuff we don't need. Of course saying this means I'm "un-American" and "against capitalism." So be it. I'd rather spend my time in the woods and living more lightly on the planet. Probably in a futile attempt to help save the environment instead of saving money to buy stuff that will be thrown out in a few months because it is not in fashion.
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@Laura
In Greek and Roman antiquity the agora — a gathering place for shopping as well as civics and athletics — played an important part in the exchange of goods and ideas. Going to market has always had both utilitarian and leisure purposes and does not preclude other leisure pursuits or recreation activities.
Excessive consumption of goods, however, is a plague.
34
@Laura, I assure you, malls did not replace people “going outside to recreate.” They were a summertime respite from extreme heat, or a winter retreat from icy cold, or an alternative to an evening of watching television shows. They were a place to go when you did not want to stay home. They weren’t the substitute for doing stuff outdoors.
19
@Laura Strolling by shops for leisure activity - look into the arcades in Paris! That's been around a lot longer than American malls.
10
In some places, malls became hangout places for rowdy teenagers and eventually targets of petty crime. That's another reason why people stopped shopping at malls. Better to go to stand alone store or shop online.
13
@Mimi
Having had some experience with hanging around malls as a teenager, I have to defend them a bit. Lots of times they were the only areas young teens could meet and socialize. Lots of towns had no community centers or parks where kids could hangout safely or get to. Malls usually had some “mall cops” to keep an eye on things, though they maybe weren’t equipped to deal with predators like Roy Moore trolling for teenage girls.
10
Malls lack a soul, a sense of place and community. Sterile and generic they force their way into towns and give little back in return.
3
A perfect place to induce a major clinical depression.
5
Karma. Malls were the death knell to many small towns and mid size cities. Main Streets became deserted. What goes around comes around.
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@Anne Thank you for noting the “death knell” caused by malls. My happy memories are of mom and pop stores where they knew what you wanted and, if they didn’t have it, they would get it. They would never cheat you because their livelihoods depended on their local reputations. When these stores went under, sometimes the town sank with them, having lost their Main Street. So everyone’s memory is based on his or her personal experience. Now, If you order a book from Amazon, is it thrilling to receive suggested reading emails (suggested by a computer) based on that purchase every day for the rest of your life? Uh, not to me. I get that time marches on, but miss the nice lady in the local book store who knew the stock and had read all the books. Oh well.
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@Anne
Walmart has at least as much to do with Main Street becoming deserted in small towns. And so far karma hasn’t come around for them.
18
@Meryl g
Well said..and well remembered. Quality of life is tied to the relationships we have with others. The butcher, the baker, the candlemaker etc offered those simple human experiences that our lives are made of. The malls were simply the harbinger of things to come: sterile, superficial places, temples to consumption & materialism, soul-less corporate chain stores with pavlovian bells & whistles to herd people into stores...SALE! sale! sale! shop till you drop, shopping as entertainment, shopping to fill the emptiness & boredom of a shallow existence.
It appears that now, with all the "social" media (an oxymoron if ever there was one) our relationships have become nothing but commodified, algorithmic TRANSACTIONS.
Screens talking to screens, people vanishing behind screens, and rendered "invisible" to people around them.
Main street (read: local) is the real solution to bringing back a healthy economy. In short we need a LOCALIZATION policy to fight the globalization that has devoured entire communities and living souls. Humans are meant to live in small groups, call them villages, small towns, Main Street, etc. This is where people can regain their authentic power, a meaningful life, a sense of ethical values.
8
Enjoyed this nostalgic trigger to memories of taking the bus for a Friday night at the mall in the late 70’s. Of course I stumbled on this article on my way to buy stuff online.
10
Luckily I grew up in a town where you didn't have to get into your car to buy a pack of chewing gum. There were streets and sidewalks and local stores. You walked in and then you walked out into the sunshine and fresh air. The malls were nothing I ever went to until I visited a girlfriend who lived in "the suburbs." Once was enough. The shoppers and the clerks had these glazed looks in their eyes (maybe from the fluorescent lighting). The artificial air sucking out the cigarette smoke and blowing in the hot or cold dry air, was awful.
That one experience guided me for a lifetime. I haven't been in one of those places in the last 60 years.
14
@george eliot Oh, IDK. I have a brother who lives in a major US city that has sidewalks and public transportation - and he takes his car a block to buy one tiny item. He does nt have a disability that would keep him from walking. Some people just enjoy driving.
1
I still shop locally. With cash. I'm also a brick and mortar retailer.
Personally, I see everybody glued to their phones, ordering everything they need from inside their apartments from one giant mega-company, and all I can see is a dystopian nightmare. From my perspective, I see Americans becoming more and more self-centered, alone, and increasingly miserable, anxious, and depressed. I'm glad that you're happy that you can save $0.25 on a box of crackers from your couch, but is it really worth the life you're making for yourself?
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@Frank When I went to a shoe store recently, the employees were the ones glued to their phones behind the counter and there was literally no place to sit down and try anything on, so I bought shoes online at Zappos instead.
Service is dead, except at specialty retailers like Lululemon and Trader Joe's, which are thriving. It's shocking how often store employees don't know where anything is and aren't interested in finding out.
I just bought a ridiculously expensive German vacuum cleaner from a local mom and pop, but I won't waste a minute in big supermarkets or stores where I can't find what I'm looking for.
Recently I bought an item for $40.02 at a small local shop and paid in cash to save the owner the interchange fee. She made me break a $20 for her two cents. She won't see me again.
59
@Randy, I love Zappos. The only good shoe store near me — on the main shopping street in town — has a nice array of choices on display, but they never, ever have my (berate) size in stock. They seem to survive on selling socks and accessories. So if I see shoes there that I like, I order them from Zappos.
7
@Randy
"Service is dead, except at specialty retailers like Lululemon . . ."
unless you look different from their "ideal clientele". If you are considered fat or have a mobility impairment, service at Lululemon is
awful.
30
I'm glad the writers mentioned the architecture of McDonald's and Taco Bell. I thought I was a complete weirdo for fondly remembering an oversized Burger King at the mall where I grew up.
8
"The grocery stores we grew up going to, the department stores our mothers took us to...".
The New York Times is usually so big on gender issues. With all the dual income families since the Seventies, why would it not have been the father. The days of mothers in charge of home and children are gone much longer than the decline of the mall.
@Wolf Bein Why would it not have been the father? Because it rarely is. Look around. I still see mostly moms in charge of home and children (and leading shopping trips). Most of the time, they also work outside the home.
14
Thanks for the memories, Kelsey.
1
I am about the same age as malls in the USA (the first “climate controlled mall opened in 1956...thanks, Google). So I guess that means I am past my peak, as well. I have not enjoyed malls for many years —ever since tacky, cheap chain stores and odiferous food courts took them over. But in the heyday of the department store-anchored mall, they were a pleasant and safe place to spend an evening or afternoon. The mall was an outing. A destination. I remember browsing the stores with my mother, and later with friends, and then with my husband. We’d stay for a meal. Maybe see a movie (when theaters came to the mall). I used to adore luxury department stores — the smell of perfume in the cosmetics department, leather in handbags, a slightly sour smell of fabric finish in home goods. My first job was in a department store! These days, these stores feel overstuffed, underpopulated, and rather sad. No longer the elegant places where you might covet something enough to save up for it. Now I do all of my shopping online. The only shopping I do in person is for groceries and garden supplies. The next car I buy will likely be purchased online. I think the last bastion of in-person shopping, for me, will be groceries. I like to choose my own produce.
33
My family owned a small business. I started working at 12 years old. I got to know a great many people. Our state rep used to be a customer, and he actually listened to what I had to say, and if he disagreed with me, he explained why, in logical terms. That is what is really missing, today.
57
I’m nostalgic for the images, but not the actual experience. Give me online shopping any day!
4
Malls may be "boring," but one can't purchase every item online either. When you live in a rural area as I do, it gets problematic finding clothing and many other things locally urban dwellers may take for granted. However, nothing beats human interaction and know-how at places like a community hardware store.
CNN had a documentary on Amazon last week. If accurately portrayed, Amazon appears to be drifting dangerously close to the monopolies of Teddy Roosevelt's era. Is that what we want or deserve?
40
@KS
I'm not sure where Amazon is going to take us, but there is something to be said for the convenience and inventory of their items. My daughter needed a college text book and ordered it Sunday evening and arrived Monday afternoon with no shipping charges. If my family needs things. chances are Amazon has them and able to deliver the next day. Yes, it's sterile at times, but definitely is quite valuable.
17
@KS
So many don't seem to realize that Amazon is itself a mall. Much of what is offered on Amazon is from many small sellers. Some just use the retail space, others are "Fulfilled by Amazon" where the products are warehoused and shipped by Amazon itself, but the products are supplied by the smaller seller.
5
Dear Retailers,
You did this to yourselves. Don’t blame people for treating your brands and goods as commodities when you did it first.
If I can go to store A, B, or C for the same thing, price will prevail, not service. I don’t feel obligated to buy from you because someone tried to insert themselves into my buying decision, acknowledged me when I walked in or offered a beverage. Give consumers some credit.
You want me to shop your store? Then show me something different. Something that’s not in every other store.
Know who I am and what I’m looking for. Build it and I will come.
Thanks,
Former Mall Shopper
19
@Mich
So because you could buy it cheaper at WalMart and it was the same product you went to WalMart. Then you blame the retailer? Don't tell me, you voted for Trump and are now in denial about the coming economic calamity.
42
@Mich
Not sure I understand your logic. Trump is very much trying to insert himself into your buying decision. He is trying to control the free enterprise system. If there is quality and reasonable price for an item, I don't care where it's from. It doesn't matter to me where the product was made.
6
The issue with department stores, shopping malls and, to some extent big box stores, is that the number and variety of items available to consumers became too large to be contained in traditional stores.
Only the likes of Amazon can now provide all the variety and immediacy of products that consumers demand.
Think about it any Barnes and Nobles store can only possibly contain a tiny fraction of the available books. Same for a shoe store or an electronics store, or the little sections of department stores and big box stores.
At Amazon, I can see a much larger selection and get it the next day or in two days.
I'll gladly dispense with the 30 seconds of "chit-chat" for the certainty of getting exactly what I want delivered to my door tomorrow.
The only thing that may bring malls back is if Amazon starts having pick up locations at the malls, attached to massive warehouses, with the rest of the mall providing "experience-retailing".
Order from Amazon, pick it up at the mall in 20min, get a hair cut and take the kids to do some wall climbing and get ice cream. That can work.
Short of that, we'll continue to buy almost everything on Amazon.
5
@Baron95. Cancelled Amazon a year ago. Won’t buy anything from it. Totally agree.
for the last decade or so, I leave empty handed from most every durable goods, retail brick & mortar experience; resale shops or clearance racks being the exception.
It seems that when brands like Apple or Warby Parker decided that their locations were loss leaders, showrooms, and return centers, then they can justify the expense. Even big box stores like Best Buy only exist through desperation purchases or by being outlets for open box discounts.
1
The opening image could have been my mall in Columbus, Ohio. When the mall opened I was 11 years old—newly of the age where I could be dropped off with a friend (though my mother had a job at the Sears anchor store- so any poor behavior could get back to her). In my first visit I remember eating lunch at the mezzanine level with my friend. In my memory we were giddy and feeling grown up as we watched the shoppers below.
59
Malls are one of the biggest urban disasters on taxpayers dime. They created an urban wasteland. Developers got rich with them and communities got stripped for their taxes with TIF finance schemes. It probably never worked out for the towns which got promised all that wealth from the taxes once the bonds where payed off. Of course that day never happened.
79
Malls had great appeal when they were novel. I worked in them in high school and college. I bought prom dresses and school clothes and holiday gifts. Local stores blended with national ones. Increasingly large ones were interesting for a single visit.. and then they were simply overwhelming. Nevertheless, showing my age, nothing beat an old fashioned local downtown even in Midwest winters.
23
My earliest memories are of the service one received getting new shoes at the children's shoe store. The salesperson measured your foot and put them on your feet and gave advice. Now in my town when my youngest had wide feet no retailers sold wide shoes. So we had to shop at far flung outlets of Stride Rite or order online.
42
Malls ceased to be fun when chain retail stores began to expand and proliferate across the US.
It used to be exciting to experience the individual character of regional stores like Filene's in Boston, or Nordstrom's on the Left Coast, or indeed Marshall Field's and Crate & Barrel in Chicago. But now these stores are either everywhere, or they've been swallowed up and rebranded by the likes of Macy's et al.
So, American malls have become as boring and bland and depressing as roadside strip malls.
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