Well, it has people talking, and at least for me, a straight, white, cis male, learning, or at the very least trying to learn. I'm gonna see it, and when I do I'll think about this article and this discussion.
6
This better be pretty funny to make up for Adam's behavior. Too many men have used deception to have sex with women. I don't find that charming. At first, I was confused by this article. If Adam had pretended to be a lesbian trans woman, then he could have gotten naked with the others because all that's supposed to matter is identity, not the biology. But, apparently, Adam is masquerading as a trans man. So, if Gillian is a lesbian, why is she interested in a trans man? Why are all these lesbians hanging out with trans men? The real reason is that a lot of lesbians still see trans men as women who are butch. And all Gillian needs is a real penis to cure her of being a lesbian? Ugh. This is really offensive. The article is correct about people being outraged on social media.
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"Is the boy problematic? Or is the whole film vexing?"
These are things the author should figure out for themself without the help of readers.
2
Please just live your life as you wish, I’m very weary of the labels being shoved down my throat. Your sexuality is none of my business and I will happily defend you from someone bothering you about it, but please stop shoving it down my throat.
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@Paulie
I would agree, but tell that to the "Jersey Shore Crowd", the young women and men with PDA's, the Kardasians, and the many, many displays of heterosexuality we are bombarded with every day....the problem with straight sexuality and/or identity is that it is kind of like white paint, you don't notice it because it is so ubiquitous.
13
the millennial obsession with "gender" is tiring.
12
What a vacuum chamber ... complete with specialized vocabulary and approved and forbidden sentiments. All that's needed are priestly robes and a police force.
And it's so great to be preached to endlessly and tirelessly by persons who've never had to earn a real living. You know, actors, "indie" filmmakers, professional activists, etc.
....
13
It is unfortunate the Times has adopted the silly "cisgender" nomenclature. It gets more absurd with its "straight cisgender" formulation. Those of us males who are not trans are males, not cisgender.
20
It seems that you are trans if you say you are.
6
the millennial obsession with "gender" is tiring.
7
I wish the media would not use the word "queer" as synonymous with LGBT. Many of us are not comfortable with that word.
5
"Chasing Amy," anyone?
2
@tester "Boys Don't Cry", anyone?
1
Cinema and other mediums of popular culture have a long history of ____ pretending to be _____ to get ______. This merely sounds like a 2019 retread of the same idea. For anyone upset about this, it needs to be understood that when your culture goes mainstream it gets commercialized. Mercilessly.
PS - NYT needs to do a better job than "some on social media" say. There is someone on social media to say anything. Is this issue a real concern or is the author just shilling for the film?
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Focusing on one aspect of the film/its critique: 'The character is saying he was born a woman but identifies and presents as male ... because he thinks a lesbian will only have sex with him if he has a vagina.'
I mean, so many transpeople are faced with a similar dilemma in daily life. The idea that a cis person they like will only have sex with her/him if they think she/he has a vagina/penis and was born with it. It's an issue that I grapple with constantly.
Do we need to disclose our genitalia and gender assigned at birth to sexual partners? When: prior to sex, before a romantic relationship starts, before we start even flirting? For most of us, the genitalia we were born with will be apparent whenever we have sex and this disclosure is inevitable.
The preposterous notion that a cis person would get themselves stuck in the same quandary is an interesting inversion of the problem. So, for me, how the character grapples with his absurd problem plays with the real, rather than absurd, issues that we trans people face with sex, our bodies and related disclosures.
Transwomen risk getting ridiculed, rejected, hurt, killed—transmen face similar issues—whenever we disclose ourselves fully, as we inevitably have to, with a sexual partner. This cis-boy's privilege is that he is choosing a bizarre but similar fate for himself and his privilege is that he only faces rejection and a minimal degree of ridicule. I find this absurd scenario amusing and intriguing.
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@Juliette
I suspect that is part of what the film makers were trying to do, invert an old, old scenario, whether it was the woman in "showboat' passing as white, or where someone to fit in or navigate a situation where there is a reason to hide the truth about themselves. The film also points out the irony of gender identity in the LGBT community, where there are more than a few lesbian women who deny that trans women are women, and even more bizarrely, are perfectly fine with trans men being in 'their spaces', despite them identifying as men, having transitioned, etc, because they are still seen as safe because they were born as women, in effect saying the same thing that conservatives say, that biological sex is all that matters and the only true (women in this case) were 'born that way'.
9
I want to see this.....
....because it sounds like an abject lesson in walking in someone else’s shoes. Which is terrific.
Part of taking back your power is to recognize the moment you begin to reclaim it as well as the opportunities to grow it when the world begins to acknowledge it. While it’s not their “job” to educate the cisgender community, it only helps our entire community of humans to respect all experiences. You can’t take the white cisgender male off the pedestal without an examination of what that looks like....which is what this films seems to do. It renders us all equal.
It sounds like a story of not fitting in, or living in a world without privilege and what that might mean for cisgender men. It’s also a different lens for which we can all see ourselves.
....but it’s also an exploration of what gender identity and sexual orientation means. So there’s that, too.
4
Isn't that the definition of acting?
3
Looks like a great film! Can’t wait
1
I'm trans, and I find this premise to be hilarious.
I would have felt less secure in my early days, unsure of myself.
How far would someone go to woo someone who's not interested? What happens after the inevitable discovery? This is a classic romantic trope: did you fall in love with the real person, or the person they pretended to be, for love?
22
Having spent a lot of time in similar spaces, the premise makes sense to me.
In any social circle there are certain things that are valued and certain things that aren't.
In the social circle that the main character found himself in, he wasn't valued and the only way for him to be valued was to lie, something that happens extremely often.
The only thing really exceptional about it is that this is that we are seeing a social circle where queerness is valued at the expense of non-queerness(although I would argue that such social circles aren't as rare as one might think).
20
@James Jones Yes, this premise rings true to my experience of mid-2000's LGBT New York. Lots of lesbians dated transmen. Maybe that's not a politically correct statement anymore, but it's true to many peoples experiences. I look forward to seeing the movie.
4
@James Jones
Agreed. In some ways, it reminds me of criticism of closeted gay and lesbians by those who were out for the things they went out of their way to do to be accepted by straight society, that often closeted gays and lesbians to 'prove' they fit in with 'normal' society, were often quite critical of the 'excesses' of the LGBT community (kind of reminds me of the hilarious gay couple in "The Stepford Wives", the conservative partner was really, really upset at how flamboyant his better half was). I also have known transgender women who were lesbian who because they were 'stealth', would often be among the loudest voices denouncing transgender women in 'their space' as being 'not really women', which they felt made them 'one of the gang', 'real', etc
1
A first issue is that LGBTQ artists are being pressured by a minority of echo-chamber-dwelling activists into denying their own individual experiences as human beings, and reduced instead to their gender identity/sexual preferences. Furthermore, they are only allowed to speak if what they say is in tune with the accepted narrative for members of that community. What is this, if not oppression?
A second issue is the assumption that only people from within a group can say interesting or important things about that group. In my experience (having lived in many different countries) that is false - insiders often cannot see, or cannot convey, what makes their own community and their own experiences different, because they lack an external frame of reference. Thus it's important to listen both to insiders and to informed outsiders, even (especially) when they disagree.
PS: for more on this topic, I recommend the excellent and prescient novel "Erasure" by Percival Everett.
34
@Tom What you wrote is what I have been thinking for a long time. People are being censored for thinking as individuals. And people who are members of any designated minority think they are the only ones who have valid observations because they are that type. Excellently written piece.
14
Yes yes yes! This, 100000x over.
3
I understand that people can be sensitive to portrayals in movies, but fiction is just that.
Like an amusement park ride fiction takes you on a journey, where you can feel free to experience situations and emotions that are different from what you encounter in everyday life.
Good characters, bad characters, whatever their role, whether loved or despised by the audience, they open up people's minds, they cause people to reassess their views, to grow, and to better understand others.
So, even if the main character has terrible flaws that irk you to no end, their presence opens the door to frank conversation, and that is where their real value lies.
26
Mr. Ernst says, at the end, "I'm always trying to bring everyone together at a table,” he said, “even if it’s awkward.” Feel free not to invite me/zie/zim/they/them. I can't figure out which pronouns to use, and would be useless in conversation.
5
@Hugh MacDonald My children are ages 6 and 9, and at their school here in San Francisco, we have trans children of all types. The students at the school, like the teachers, have no problem calling them by their preferred pronouns.
How are kids capable of doing it so easily but you, presumably a grown man, find it impossible? Must be something else at work other than just confusion.
4
That's a pretty sad comment, especially when his pronoun is right in the preceding sentence that you quoted. It takes approximately 10 seconds to adjust to someone's pronouns and takes nothing away from you other than those very seconds. And no, I'm not trans.. but I do hope I'd get invited to dinner at that table.
3
@Todd That's great, Todd. And I am amazed that 6-9 year olds have decided they're trans. Do you think it will last? I guess it's the natural filter-down effect of "the world is all about me, and needs to bend to my feelings, whatever they happen to be at the moment."
6
We need the press to report on these "objections" more carefully. Nowhere in this piece is there any evidence of broad opposition to this show. With twitter and online petitions, a tiny group of people can easily raise objections. But is this something a lot of people are actually concerned about? There is no way of knowing.
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