When you put some thought to migration, immigration and the legal/social status of people, it really comes down to semantics.
One relatively small group of people assigning a label to another, much larger group of people. This label does very little to alter the reality of the situation: people seeking out safety, shelter and a better life for their family. Are there limitations to the resources available to newly arrived people? Of course.
Nevertheless, intentionally making an already challenging situation even more difficult speaks volumes about our “leadership” and the people who support them. This is not what the United States is about.
596
@Andre Hoogeveen
Yes! As to whether "[t]his is not what the United States is about" is the question. It shouldn't be, but under the current administration that's a hopeful claim not borne out by how we are acting in the world.
14
@Andre Hoogeveen
.. This issue is not about semantics... Its about results.
Democrats have been spinning their wheels on immigration, offering little and getting nothing done..
... Trump and his people are putting their ideas into action.. (semantics are for people on the sidelines).
... Hard-line immigration policy is partly an outgrowth of governments failure to address the concerns of many citizens... We've seen this in Europe and now the U.S.
... Democrats have completely failed to address many peoples immigration concerns...and so these people have turned to Republicans... (no semantics needed)..
36
@mike...
Please note headline 6/15/2018:
"Trump rejects immigration compromise"
Democrats and Republicans came to an agreement on a tough issue, but guess who tanked it?
37
I rather assist the needy with my tax money rather than the anticipated $340 million (estimated per Forbes Magazine) that it will cost for Trump to play golf during his Presidency.
899
@Jordan Obama played a mere fraction of golf rounds as Trump. So spare me with the comparison.
37
@Jordan
Obama played golf less in his entire eight years than Trump has played already.
More importantly, it was Trump who raised the issue of playing golf, maintaining that he simply wouldn’t dot as he would be working so hard he would likely never even leave Washington. Just one of the many absurd lies and broken promises of his campaign. Only committed cult members continue to mindlessly excuse the lies, excesses, and complete immorality of this man and his “administration”.
51
@Michael....and that $$$ goes straight into the Trump Org's pockets....monetizing the Presidency.....and no one stands up to condemn this!
10
Nobody seems to realize that when he’s done with immigrants he’s going to go after citizens he doesn’t like.
805
@Lisa oh I think we do realize it.
65
@Lisa He already has - "send them back" ring a bell?
71
He already is...the four congresswomen, for instance, who happen to be of color.
74
It’s about racism. It’s about intimidation. It’s about white supremacy. It was never about anything else.
905
@Wm. Blake
I guess if white taxpayers are feeding you and your family, it must seem that they are higher beings and of a better caste?
Independence is important to Americans.
15
@Wm. Blake True! He is racist, he is a white supremacist and he thrives on intimidating people. But, what drives him is obtaining power and control of anything and everything. Trump wants total power and total control. And he wants to have that power and control forever! He is, perhaps, the most dangerous person on the planet.
Ever notice how he loves a good conspiracy theory? That's because he has a long history of conspiratorial behavior. The US may not have been perfect before Trump. We are officially a hegemonic power in decline at present. Biden offered a prediction that four more years of Trump will fundamentally change this nation. I believe him.
23
@Wm. Blake
Agreed. The intent is to attack. It has nothing to do with saving money.
14
I’m perfectly okay using taxpayer funds to assist people in need. I don’t make a distinction between country of origin, gender, race, immigration status or other. What I have a problem with is using taxpayer money to support 45 and members of his atrocious administration.
1049
@Andrés A Former “Illegal”
Love that you call him 45 vs President.
8
I was born here, but my wife is an immigrant. We were fine for the first few years of marriage, but we decided I needed to get a college education so we could better provide for our growing family. I started my undergrad degree as my 2nd child was born, and my masters as my 3rd was born. I depended on medicaid and food stamps to make ends meet while I was in school full time. Without those programs, I never would have made it. Now I make over $100k and pay loads of taxes, etc. Isn't that exactly the purpose of these programs? By the way, it's super humiliating paying with the EBT Food Stamps card. People definitely look at and treat you differently when you use it.
1675
@Location01
Ah, but suppose the wife got pregnant accidentally. You wouldn't want YHB318's wife to have an abortion, would you? And perhaps he and his wife were opposed to birth control for religious reasons.
Perhaps everyone should wait to marry and have sex until he or she is making big bucks. (Like that will happen.)
You could be rich, have a family and lose it all. Then what are you going to do? Give the kids back? -- thegamesmenplay.com
97
@Location01
OMG! You really do not get it all! As a society, we have a duty to help each other. This person worked, got an education and now paying it forward. Who do you think helped you out as a young person? Who do you think helped pay for your public school? Who do you think will help fund your social security? We all pay it forward. We are not singular ships passing in the night. If that is what you wish for, go live in a nation where it truly is every person for him/herself.
107
The country gave you money to have children you couldn't afford at the time.
That bugs me.
91
Waiting for this administration to remove the Statute of Liberty.
264
@Pam Or they'll remove the face, put on Trump's, get rid of Emma Lazarus's "The Colossus" (the familiar poem, "Give us your tired...") poem from inside the pedestal, and put a large bronze image of Trump Tower instead, framed by bronze hundred dollar bills.
17
@Pam
Or at least add a disclaimer in small print, with terms and conditions, to the plaque at its base.
8
@Pam Look, the Statue of Liberty only describes the culture of the New York region of the US, which has traditionally been ultra-liberal (and Dutch in origin). The US as a whole is not New York. You shouldn't project New York culture onto the rest of the country.
10
Punishing poverty makes for a terrible social and economic policy. It is based on the discredited "welfare queens" myth popularized in the 1990s when much of the U.S. welfare system was dismantled. Immigrants tend to be much more socially and economically mobile than native-born Americans. Immigrants come to the U.S. to work, get educated, start businesses, and they generate economic growth and economic opportunities for everyone, and, of course, they do pay taxes. The existing limited safety net programs help them integrate into the American life faster. Depriving legal immigrants of these programs can only have the effect of trapping more people in poverty, creating a permanent vulnerable underclass, increasing crime and healthcare costs. It is a stupid and destructive policy, in addition to being inhumane.
98
@Berto Collins this is great policy and it helps the middle class tremendously not to mention wage growth and many other things that is on the back of the middle class. It's not the 1700s.....
2
@Chris O
people that work in places like Walmart, that do not make enough$ to pay the bills. they are underpaid, do not get enough hours to qualify for benefits. So guess what they use Medicaid.
If you are willing to pay higher prices for all that STUFF YOU GET AT THE BIG BOX STORES THEN FINE.
once again this administration is being racist.
14
In the heyday of Ellis Island, prospective immigrants were sent back if they were thought likely to become a “public charge”. And this was BEFORE we had any of our present entitlements. Why should we be taking folks now that we know will be entitlement collectors from their first days?!
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@Kurfco
Congress created the legislation that defined who fell into the "public charge" category. These changes potentially change what Congress intended and if that's desired, should be done through the legislative process, not through administrative hand waving. As it is, there are number of exempt categories that will still be allowed in, as well as those who fall far below the poverty line. In addition, it will have a disproportionate affect on people who are actually U.S. citizens, that is, children born here who are members of immigrant families (the estimates go as high as 10M immigrant children). So, in the end, what we have here is not really an effort to stem illegal or legal immigration, it's simply a method to fire up conservative voters. Trump immigration czar, Stephen Miller, has said that being tough on immigrants is a good vote getting strategy.
43
@Kurfco and in the heyday of Ellis Island there were apartment buildings in New York with no heat or running water. There also weren't vaccines against measles and the mumps. So what is the point of your comment? My grandfather came over in the heyday of Ellis Island - doesn't mean I expect other people to come here under the same conditions.
67
@Kurfco perhaps they just need that initial boost.
Remember when you held your 1st job? the pay was meager to your parents, but it felt like Wealth to you. right? You just needed that boost.
What is controversial to me is that the system doesn't seem to keep track of which, or whom are taking advantage of our resources.
16
Perhaps if our country had some kind of income equality or a mandatory livable wage this might make sense, but as of right now you could work two jobs and still require government assistance because corporations rely on public welfare to subsidize the abysmal rates they pay their employees. This is outrageous.
1986
@Casey ~
Indeed, if you compare similar demographic and economic groups, what they pay into the system and what they get out of the system is pretty much the same. Indeed, some studies show that green card or legal aliens or even illegals tend to work more.
30
@Casey
Casey, i think you completely miss the point of this new Trump rule.. Its not meant to be fair or equal.. Its purpose is to discourage immigrants from coming to this country.. And perhaps its trying to push some immigrants to leave..
..--- Its meant to be punitive..
... And of course, the Trump people would argue that this measure is fair to the Citizens of this country.. whose taxes go to pay for subsidies to immigrants...
--- That's the whole rational... So you're basically arguing the wrong point.
25
@Casey
You don't find it odd that we are letting in so many immigrants that can't support themselves or have family here to support them when our own citizens can't even get a decent paying job. Please lay off the Democratic koolaid. It's called supply and demand no need for some government program to make things more equal. Simply reduce the supply of labor and wages will rise or if your a politician use the smoke screen that we need more good jobs, which is just saying the same thing but blaming the wrong side of the equation which the government conveniently has little control over.
42
This is rich (pun not intended) coming from a person who has defaulted on numerous debts and has used bankruptcy laws to put further burden on others and local/federal governments.
2626
@Brian And is reputed to have many, many *illegal* immigrants, probably poorly paid, if paid at all, judging from the reporting on how he has defaulted on payment of workers time and time again, working at his hotels and golf courses. I want ICE to first raid HIS businesses.
331
@Brian not to mention whose wife is here on a Visa intended for gifted people and she was able to use it because he as a citizen vouched for her
369
@Brian Don't forget his Chain Migrant in-laws of whom the father was a member of the communist party.
85
As a prior legal immigrant and now naturalized citizen, all I can say is that this is plain wrong and unjust. How is it okay to accept taxes from all legal immigrants but deny them a safey net when they fall on bad times? Immigrants serve a critical need in this country, from white collar jobs to fruit pickers. Immigrants make huge contributions to the thriving economy, America's innovative edge, and its cultural enrichment. They should not be treated like second grade residents.
2068
@The Path of Moderation Because immigrants are different from citizens until they naturalize. Immigration should be a net plus to the country. It is entirely reasonable to ask of a prospective immigrant that they show evidence that they can support themselves before given permanent residency. We benefit tremendously from immigration but asking that prospective immigrants can support themselves is logical. If they naturalize they will be eligible for aid just like any other citizen.
108
@The Path of Moderation
"How is it okay to accept taxes from all legal immigrants but deny them a safety net when they fall on bad times?"
Exactly!
Right now, local NE farmers cannot get enough help because immigrants -- legal or otherwise -- are not willing to risk arrest and/or deportation.
Newport RI restaurants are open, I'm told, only six days / week b/c they don't have enough help to remain open for business seven days /week as is customary during the summer, their busiest time.
Putting the squeeze on immigrants might have reduced competition for jobs in manufacturing but their will be greater financial costs down the road ... not to mention the horribly inhumane conditions generated by denying the needy food.
181
@Michael Showing evidence of being able to support oneself is fine, but people need aid because their best-laid plans go awry. Anyone can be riding high in April, then shot down in May. You dodged her point about taxes, too.
252
All those who's ancestors came here speaking English, with a college degree and money in the bank raise their hands. C'mon trump put your hand up, you don't recognize truth from fiction anyway.
64
@Paul Lief that's a terrible argument/debate on whether or not we should accept even more unskilled, poverty stricken people into our great over generous nation. We have our citizens to think about, not to mention the 20+M illegal persons in our border. Why is the tax payer always the last person thought about? This is great policy. We can't even take care of ourselves anymore without further crippling the middle class which is hanging on by a thread, henceforth we get asanine crazy socialist talk from the left. They are trying to ruin a nation, not properly fix it. Trump 2020
9
@Paul Lief Send me your wealthy, white, entitled individuals...
3
@Chris O Nothing personal but I'm guessing you're a lifetime trumper, long before trump came along. You do know immigrants work right? They pay Federal, State, City, Local and Sales taxes, why wouldn't they be entitled to a return. Your solution includes lowering the tax rate on the wealthy also right? Go talk to your Clergy person and learn right from wrong. Live in your bubble. Oh, and BTW, my Grandfather came here from Russia with nothing, how'd your family get here and what was their education and bank account?
15
This could be the start of a slippery slope that will do further damage to this country and its citizens. I put nothing good past Trump, Miller or McConnell.
What else does Trump want to take away from us OR reduce what we now receive lawfully, like your Social Security benefit?
1010
Joan -- This is an indication that we're in a full-on mudslide. This is basically nullifying any asylum-seeking immigration policy.
33
@Joan S.
The U.S. Department of Education already takes away social security though the department of the treasury, to pay off what remains of one's federal student debt, sometimes 40 years old debt, regardless of whether or not one depends on it for sustenance. A hospital in Hialeah ordered a 70 year old U.S. citizen into hospice, rather than give him the surgery he needed to survive. I took him to Jackson where he was treated and is still in remission. It's not just Trump--that's an oversimplification. It's the deeper structures of the current, cruel system in place. Another cruelty unaddressed by the media is the tearing away of small children from immigrant women married to citizens who beat them and abuse them. The VAWA(Violence Against Women Act) fails to protect women who entered the U.S. with fraudulent documents to ask for asylum because they cannot allegedly show the necessary prerequisite for relief--"Good Moral Character." I could go on and on with different cases that show the cruelty in place before Trump. A man married to a citizen was denied adjustment of status because he failed to show enough hardship to his healthy wife to merit a waiver. He was picked up at work in NYC and deported--before Trump. It's the deeper structures that should be changed, perhaps with the change of a president. Cries to abolish ICE and free college for all are pathetic excuses of how not to address the problem. Most of us want precise, real change, not just a different face.
31
@Joan S.
Of course for every benefit taken by an undocumented person, the worked-and-paid-in benefits for American citizens will be cut.
We are glad Trump is trying to curtail these practices. We want something left over for our streets, our retirees, our sick and poor. We really can't import all of Central America's problems here at the cost of taking care of our own citizens in need.
Don't blame Trump for taking action. Blame Clinton, Bush, Obama and their Congresses for not.
15
I was on public assistance and I was also homeless for some years in my twenties. Trump and his like-minded Republicans seem to believe public assistance is only for losers. Now I work and live in Westchester County NY in a house paying mega federal, state, and local taxes, I hope to support people who need to be on public assistance. Our household income puts us in the top 15% of earners and we’re very happy to contribute tax dollars to helping others grow, to contribute towards cultivating a healthy and diverse society where people can overcome adversity instead of being trapped by it. Our government can provide that service more efficiently and professionally than any individual or charity (which can do good but can’t rival a goverment’s scale and ability to generate income).
Trump and the Republicans would prefer the taxes I now pay go toward manufacturing bombs, and they would have disallowed me assistance when I needed it. Can’t have it both ways, I’m afraid: If we don’t support our poor, whether recent immigrants or born citizens, we hobble ourselves. I don’t understand their thinking, beyond some shallow, selfish, xenophobic, grudge-bearing talking-point.
1585
@Aaron I couldn't agree more! They could also go back and re-evaluate the lines of poverty and where the cut-offs are for needing assistance. I live in an area where housing is ridiculously expensive and even with my job, I barely scrape by. Yet make $1000 too much each year to qualify for any assistance. It is very sad and the gap keeps on growing.
48
@Aaron
The problem is that there is no end to how much government will take of your money to spend on programs that are inefficient and ineffective.
If what you say is true and you are in the top 15% of earners, you didn’t get there because you received a government handout. we shouldn’t accept the idea that if you hadn’t received help through government sources you wouldn’t have made it to where you are today. Those immigrants that came here a hundred years or so ago didn’t receive any government handouts and a great many of them were those who created the great wealth in this country. Our wealth wasn’t due to a government controlled economy, it was due to individuals pursuing their own way with help from family and friends.
And it is untrue that the government can more efficiently help people. Which is more efficient, me giving a dollar directly where I see a need or to the government through the IRS and then funneled through Congress and then directed via lobbyist to where those in power will benefit most? Most charitable organizations were started and most successful when there was less government. The issue is that government takes so much of our discretionary income that there is very little left to help those that need it.
13
@Aaron totally agree. I might add that it's also their fear of their perceived loss of power in oppressing the poor and middle class. America has always been seen as a melting pot of ethnicities but ruled over by white elites and now that they are going by the way of the dinosaurs, they fear for themselves and their families generations not being able to compete. Instead of embracing the diversity, they want to punch down, while being woefully ignorant that their successors don't necessarily hold their views/beliefs. The number of their children and grandchildren have been in contact with other ethnicities and majority of them recognize the value of diversity and inclusion. That's what they fear the most...
16
I despise Trump and his reign of terror on our country but I must agree with this rule change. No one should immigrate here and receive government benefits not intended for them, IMO this should include Affirmative Action and other laws that are intended to close the disparities between ADOS and White Americans, this includes foreign White folks too. If you immigrate here, it should be legally, lawfully and you must be able to stand on your own two feet. I just wish he'd end Corporate welfare too.
521
@hojo58 Legal immigrants have contributed their taxes to the system, and are entitled by law to access government benefits. The laws are not set up to discriminate against anyone, so deciding that a legal immigrant can't access public funds through a legal process that they are entitled to follow is craziness. Another wild goose chase, and a waste of taxpayer dollars dealing with these challenges to democracy in the courts.
68
@hojo58 "not intended for them". Wrong. Benefits are intended for ALL [legal] residents of the country. These people are paying taxes and contributing to the country. It's the people who are employing them, at less than a living wage, that are causing them to need assistance. We have a census for a reason, to account for ALL residents of the country, not just "citizens". Smh
82
@hojo58
My husband immigrated here so that he and I can spend our lives together. Should I not be able to live in the same country as both my love and my family, just because it might take us some time as young people to get our feet underneath us? - and yes, there may be times that we need public assistance, given the economy we live in where prices are rising, wages are stagnant, and healthcare is increasingly unaffordable. This possibility should not exclude my love from being able to live with me in this country. It is especially egregious given that legal immigrants are now not allowed to work for months after arriving (in my partner's case, for 5 months and counting), during which time we have to get by on a single income.
This rule is explicitly targeting families who are just trying to live together. It will make it that much harder both for those attempting to legally immigrate and their family members who are US citizens or permanent residents. It will make us all less healthy and less secure.
43
A third of senior citizens cannot afford to take their medicine as prescribed; over a quarter of children live in poverty (40 percent in California); and, our schools are failing. We have a shrinking middle class; limited opportunities for upward mobility (vis-a-vis recent generations); and many social ills.
The scarce resources we have should - without question - go to American citizens. The only benefits we provide to illegal immigrants should be one-way transportation home.
53
We have plenty of resources. But we have chosen to give them to the people who need them the least.
10
@Sharon What an uninformed opinion! You don't seem to realize that US agriculture would collapse without the undocumented workers.
7
@Sharon. The high cost of our medicine has nothing to do with immigration policy, but rather a policy choice by Republicans to support a for-profit model of health care that cares about shareholders and CEO’s of Big Pharma more than ordinary Americans. The rest of the advanced world pays far less for health care and drugs than we do, with better results. Children live in poverty when Trump and the Republican controlled Congress passed huge tax cuts for the already wealthy and corporate interests while many Americans are not paid a living wage that can cover housing, food, and basic necessities - again, a policy choice by Republicans who control Congress. Our Schools - again, children aren’t a wealthy lobbying interest that Congress cares about. The US is the least child friendly advanced country in the world.
Blaming immigrants, who work hard and take the jobs Americans turn up their noses at, is ridiculous. It is a red herring meant to fool people into not seeing the theft taking place before their eyes, as the Republican Party and Trump enrich themselves and their benefactors. Start doing some research. Don’t be fooled by propaganda.
And, if you are upset by illegal immigrants, ask Trump and your Republican reps why Koch Foods which has had past raids for illegal immigrants, in addition to last week’s raid in Mississippi, not been prosecuted. Demand by unscrupulous American employers fuels immigration by people who simply want a better life.
11
If this racist, bigoted immigration policy had been in effect in the first half of the 20th century, millions of productive Americans alive today would not be living here. That includes Jews fleeing the Holocaust.
13
@Mark,
Wrong, Jews were givers, not takers.
Even during the depression they were very generous people.
23
@Mark. There is nothing racist ot bigoted about it. It’s what is right for this country and its citizens.
23
@Mark, immigrants in decades past came to America and received no freebies, were assigned a state or location and were expected to be self supporting. And this is exactly what made America great, the diversity of people, their cultures and foods. No one expected a FREE LIFE paid by the government.
22
It feels like we’re living in some alternate Dickensian universe. I’m perpetually mystified by evangelicals and their support of these people. God help us.
17
When I applied for a green card in 1963 I had to go to the US Embassy in my home town with a bank statement that proved I could support myself on arrival. (After my interview, 90% of my funds went to buy my ship ticket. ) The alternative was to have someone in the US to sponsor me. So what really changed?.
Within 6 days of getting off the boat I had found a job and was working because after paying rent and security I was basically broke.
Yes; I was very lucky because a British accent was a trophy for any employer back then. But the fact was, I had saved like crazy before booking my passage and knew I had to hit the ground running, which I did. At some points I worked two jobs and at no point, even when making very little money, did I qualify even for any help.
I know I am not unique, because there are many immigrants like me who came here, who appeared to be financially sound and were prequalified to work.
Unfortunately, so many parts of the world are in crisis today, but it seems clear to me that more funds, not less, need to be provided foreducation and family planning in hardship areas so that smaller families have a better shot at making it. Having babies in war zones and coming here with multiple young children and no skills to support them is not a solution to anything.
26
I agree with this. We need those services for citizens first. We keep passing over our own struggling citizens and it's truly not right or fair for a country to not take care of their citizens first with tax payers money. When we get to a better place then we can extend such services to others because overall I believe Americans care for those outside themselves.
Our public housing and food stamp programs are already short on what is needed. Our housing wait lists are insane and I'm sorry if you come here you must rely on your own two feet. I'd never migrate to another country and expect them to take care of me without taking care of their citizens first.
948
@Location01. You have never heard the words "Your son will join our gang or your family will be killed".
Walk a mile in someone's shoes before you think you know what you would do.
369
@Location01 - I'm curious to know more about this; because legal immigrants also pay taxes (income taxes, state, local, sales taxes) so in some way they're also contributing to the social safety net and programs like Food Stamps, etc. I guess I don't see the difference between a legal immigrant on a path to citizenship and a naturalized citizen...interested to read more about this new policy.
206
Finally a "Times Pick" which reflects the fact the "free stuff" must come from tax-paying workers, many of whom would prefer to see their tax dollars benefit the needs of US citizens, not the thousands of immigrants who are flooding across our borders for services that are being paid for by debt which our grandchildren will bear.
148
The only problem I see with this is that most wealthy immigrants are from non-white countries such as China, India, Nigeria, etc., and how is that going to appeal to his base? Wealthy Europeans don't want to come here.
17
@Judy Wealthy people don’t come here - from any country. Only those who can’t make it in their country come here. The poor and uneducated, unskilled.
8
If a large number of foreign educated doctors leave America, we will have a big public health problem on our Hands.
2
I wonder how many children of Saudi princes would qualify for green cards? Perhaps a cousin of OBL?
8
Some of them may have already bought it by now.
3
@qisl
All of them. OBL came on a student visa. Since they're super wealthy, they are also eligible for investor visas because $500K is pocket change to them.
5
The ugly reality of this policy is that it is racist, expanding the scapegoating of Hispanic and Latino people. The New York Times should not hide this ugly reality.
This policy has approximately as much to do with "wealthy" versus "poor" as the "Welfare Mom" slogans from the Reagan era.
4
so i guess "give me your tired, your poor..." is out
1
The tax-payer burden for those of less means should fall on the companies that employ them, not the average citizen. But when companies pay no taxes, this is an indictment on a system of corporate users that is highly inequitable. But this is a system that Trump and his ilk continue to use to their benefit
2
The best solution is to pay a living wage to all who work and combine that with healthcare for all. After all, this is done in other industrial countries in Europe and Asia and South America.
3
Note also that these measures don't really solve a big "problem." We claim we're uptight about immigrants getting a few food stamps, but if we're so worried about costs what will the administration of all these new rules cost? And over time, what would these immigrants have paid in taxes and contributed to the economy? So if we look at the big picture this might cost us more than it saves.
But looking at the big picture isn't what the Trump administration is about. Let's be honest. What this is all about is simply one more way to attack immigrants and try to send one more weird feel-good to President Trump's grouchy supporters.
4
I don't feel sorry for Maria and her husband. They don't need WIC on a teacher's salary. Use a better example. Do we have unlimited resources to feed and secure housing and benefits for millions more people? Why come here if you need to be supplemented for generations?
2
OK, so its clear Trumpies don't like illegal immigrants and will cite all kinds of "law of the land" reasons. Well, now, it seems that they're targeting LEGAL immigrants on economic "fitness".
Why doesn't the Administration just put out a sign on the door and say "Immigrants are not welcome here". The inscription on the Statue of Liberty has become patently false.
I'm ashamed of my government. Vote them all out in 2020.
3
Not sure that Trump’s father would have been let in after this criteria is established into law.
3
Another reason to get this guy out of the Oval Office. We know he wants more Norwegians or people like Norwegians (white) to emigrate here, that he doesn't like those from Africa or Central America, and that he has never understood the American Dream. Let's hope the Democrats don't shoot themselves in their feet, register new voters, and influence their former base not to stay home on election day. This guy is a nightmare.
2
So the Poor should't get food stamps or other help, but Trump can do bankruptcy many times, Doesn't pay taxes, His Immigrant in-laws get secret service protection. How much money are his properties making when he goes golfing there? That's public charge.
6
Melania Trump’s parents recently entered the country as immigrants. How did they qualify?
4
I wonder about the economic impact of this policy. In the current times of low unemployment, there are many green carded workers that serve a critical role in the nation's business. Industries such as construction, food processing, hospitality, and agriculture are prime examples and there are many others. One could make the case that extending benefits to this group of workers may actually serve a national interest in that these positions cannot be filled with other employment methods. Much like corporate tax breaks, this contributes arguably to the national economy and can actually add to the president's goal for economic growth, although this argument may well be lost on him. A better way to enact a long term change in the system might be to time out the benefits, and allow these workers to transition into the American society with a limit on how much aid persons might receive and for how long. The goal would be to continue a supply of low wage workers, and at the same time better manage the programs that provide benefits to this group of workers.
3
Un-American.
3
By all means let’s not have people who want to work for a living.
3
@Alice--I might agree, except for the numbers of Americans sucking the welfare system dry. We never seem to want to stem the tide of "disability" recipients and the families that have collected benefits for generation after generation. I'd rather give a leg up temporarily to some hard-working foreign family, who will eventually move off benefits to start their own business or give assistance to some smart kid who needs help to become employed, than some of the lazy slobs that were born here.
4
My wife and I waited until we were financially stable to then bring children into the world. I cannot understand being on food stamps and thinking it's anything but a bad idea to then bring children into the world. Sorry if this sounds cruel to many of you but those who are on or not far from needing public assistance have a responsibility to the rest of us to limit the amount of assistance they seek. Children are expensive. And, our carbon footprint on this planet is huge enough as it is. I cannot understand why Maria (in article) and her husband, already on food stamps for part of each year, are choosing to bring a child into the world. I also cannot understand why people fleeing from places like El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, etc. have been reproducing, adding more people to be miserable in their terrible countries. As Michael Jackson said, "if you can't feed a baby, then don't have a baby." Personal responsibility seems to be in short supply these days!
17
The US is one of the wealthiest and largest nations on Earth.
It has negative population growth. There is no good reason to add more restrictions to immigrants. Well, except cruelty, populism and racism.
4
I feel like a big reason this is happening is because every Democrat on the debate stage raised their hand to the question, "should public health insurance cover illegal immigrants?"
I'm fairly liberal, but that's probably the dumbest thing you could say if you're trying to win over Trump voters.
6
It happens little by little so you don't notice it. Your country becomes something else. We take away essential supports from those who need it, but we give $28 billion to farmers because Trump's tariffs are putting them out of business. Welfare for the farmers. Incredible. Notice the choice being made - billions in welfare for white people, cruelty for brown people. And it will sell to his white supremacist base. Don't be fooled - this is who they are, every one of them who voted for him. Remember when Trump call Obama "the founder of ISIS"? Why aren't the Democrats calling Trump "the founder of the white supremacist movement"? Wake up and fight dirty before it's too late.
7
Your comment is very true. If we look at history of pre WWI and WWII Germany abd what brought Nazi ideology, you see similar patterns. Majority of Germans at the time had no idea what was going on (no TV, media etc.). The minority, Nazis, with careful manipulation, targetted messages and slowly turning laws (disguised as good for everyone) turned Germany into what it became.
2
I hate to admit this but I am of Celtic, Anglo-Saxon and Mediterranean stock but people from Central America seem to be more civilized than these groups.
2
@Donald Forbes I should add that my maternal grandmother was Nordic.
In Nashville, we've had a major construction boom and you won't find anyone here who doesn't know that without an immigrant population (I'm sure many are illegals), work would come to a complete stop. The uncomfortable truth is that if they had any "wealth" they wouldn't want to do the jobs that many of our citizens won't do or are too lazy to do. That's a whole other can of worms that we all realize but don't talk about.
7
Trump has ordered a new inscription on the State of Liberty: "Give me your wealthy and white. As for your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, stay in the wretched refuse of your teeming shore because you are no longer welcome. We don't want your homeless and tempest-tossed. The lamp has been extinguished and the golden door slammed shut."
5
Trump Policy Favors Wealthier Immigrants for Green Cards – people like Melania and her "chain-migration" parents for example. Bouquets for them – Brickbats for the others apparently.
3
There, I fixed it to match the new immigration policy.
"Give me your tired (I mean healthy), your poor (I mean wealthy), your huddled masses (I mean white Christians) yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse (I mean elite classes) of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless (I mean people with second houses), tempest-tossed (I mean jet-setters) to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
4
This new Trump immigration rule may apply to prospective new immigrants and some who are here but....how about the millions of homegrown “public charge” citizens not working and collecting benefits!! Let the Administration go after them “moochers”.
4
How many Confederate statues does it take to fill Ellis Island? Let the selections and cleansing begin. Then the broader question....... Who is next?
5
I despise Trump, but I agree with this. Not only does this make sense but it's already part of our immigration policy, it's just being talked about differently. First of all, until one is a citizen they are not eligible for any public welfare. Once one does become a citizen, they are STILL not eligible for public assistance programs for 5 years. This is entirely based on the premise that immigrants should be able to support themselves. Certainly, hardships happen, but the way I'm interpreting this, it's not saying "immigrants can never get public assistance." It's saying, "we are going to be more closely looking at the financial situation of immigrants to ensure they are likely to be able to support themselves." The biggest issue I see with it is that it can be subjective, so measures need to be in place to have more than one person agreeing that the person can/ cannot support themselves before a final determination is made.
What's wrong with expecting a person to demonstrate self-sufficiency when immigrating to a new country? Most other countries require this. I would never expect to move to a new country and have them take care of me.
11
Thank you, Beth, for your rational perspective.
2
I don't understand this. Legal immigrants already do not qualify for government benefits until they have been granted legal permanent residency (green card) for 5 years. It can take up to 3 years to get a green card and those who do not have one are not eligible for any government benefits. They already must have the means to support themselves. And green card holders do not qualify for the safety net benefits - they can get Social Security and Medicare if they have paid in the requisite 40 quarters.
Furthermore, legal immigrants can get work permits that allow them to work and pay taxes, especially if they have applied for a green card.
What is the change? Poor immigrants are more likely to be refugees or asylum seekers, who are granted special status - but who can receive some benefits for only 6 months and must have a job within 6 months.
Most teachers in the US do not make $64,000. So a teacher from another country would not be allowed to emigrate to the US under this policy.
What's really going on here?
6
I think this is a wonderful policy and well overdue. The title of the article is misleading, though. Being able to support yourself and your family without requiring public assistance benefits does not mean that you are "wealthy," it means that you are self-sufficient. We already have far too many American citizens who are receiving public assistance benefits; we surely don't need to keep adding to the welfare recipients by accepting immigrants who are unable to fully support themselves. Immigration to the United States should be merit based and should consist of people who have skills and education enough to support themselves and who are willing and able to adapt themselves to fit into and be a benefit to our country.
6
More attacks on the basic underpinnings of what this country stands for. He and his lieutenants are gutting the foundation of who we are as a country. We certainly have a dark history but the door has always been open. I could put an immigration policy together around my dining room table in a few weeks. Limit immigration, yes. But do it for the right reasons. What is their problem?
2
If you could do it, we should elect you to Congress. Neither our Representatives nor Senators seem to have kitchen tables around which to do the hard work of governing.
Another solution in search of a problem, disguised as good fiscal policy but barely hiding naked bigotry.
Since I have not seen this question asked (could have missed it), I will offer the following: do we really have a problem with large numbers of immigrants coming here and then applying for public assistance? Data, not conjecture, please. Thanks.
4
When the resource is limited and our debt over GDP is about the level of post WW II , this is the way to go! Unless goal of our government and people in this country is to make everyone in the world have have a better life in equal way, the policy has to help its’ own citizen first. In addition, I know a lot of people takes advantage of our system and hide their wealth in their original countries or due to the implementation of assistant program loopholes, they enjoy Medicaid, Obama care and other assistances which meant to help people in need! Far left never cares about if there is issue in the implementation, they want to give , give and give!
3
The devil seems to be in the details which are not clear to me. It seems fair to strike a balance between the indigent and those more able to support themselves. I guess advocates of unlimited acceptance believe our country has the wealth to lift them all up?
2
I agree with many on this forum that our immigration system needs reform. We do have problems in many overstaying their visas, fraudulent visa stays, and those who are fleeing violence and/or poor economic conditions. And legally those in the country illegally cannot apply for public assistance.
However, in my lack of trust or belief of anything Trump initiates or is involved with I have a suspicion there will be a VIP immigration policy, those with money from desired countries, and all others who need not apply.
I would like to see empirical evidence of how many illegal immigrants, asylum seekers and resident aliens are living on public assistance as, again, I have distrust in anything Trump tweets, speaks about or utters.
Basically, is Trump manufacturing a distraction using tainted evidence for his justification?
Lastly, it is pretty brazen for a silver spoon privileged person to be restricting citizenship if someone is or has used public assistance while in this country legally.
1
I favor this proposed policy. We should favor contributing immigrants with work skills, not non-achievers who rely on welfare paid by government borrowing and my taxes.
6
Maria from Colombia, an industrial engineer, is 5 months pregnant. Her husband is a teacher. They are educated people. Did they consider perhaps delaying having children until both were a little more financially stable? Did Maria's husband consider getting a job during the summer, instead of taking the summer off, especially since he has a child on the way? This is what infuriates otherwise pro-immigrant voters.
9
When my wife applied for her green card, the immigration sponsor (me) had to contractually agree that the new immigrant would be the sole financial responsibility of the sponsor for a period of five years and that the immigrant was not allowed to receive government aid in that time period.
If we have a rational immigration system, we are not inviting in people that require government services to survive, except in rare cases.
We should be inviting in highly educated, skilled people that speak English. That only makes sense. These people are likely to be able to support themselves.
In the case of family based immigration, family members wanting to bring in relatives should be required to support those relatives, at least for a minimal five year period we require of others.
Immigration is our way of building team America. We have every right to be choosy about who we invite onto the team.
7
My parents were Holocaust survivors and came to the USA as refugees after WWII. They never earned more than minimum wage. They spoke no English and were unskilled workers. We had no medical insurance coverage (this was pre-Medicaid days). My mother developed, and died from, breast cancer less than 10 years after arrival and my father tried to pay out-of-pocket for her medical care (the debt was eventually written off). He had no medical insurance until Medicare came into existence. Meanwhile, I was the first university graduate AND law school graduate. It is so depressing to read some of the comments supporting the rule change. Those of you supporting it are telling me that my parents, if they had been able to access public benefits when needed, should not have been able to obtain a green card and then US citizenship after all they had been through? All I can think of is the Yiddish word for "shame" to describe this new rule - it is a shonda!
8
So the old pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps story is really dead and should be buried. No longer will it be possible for a poor person to come to the US and make something of himself. Poor people around the world are to be considered losers from the get-go, without a chance at improving their lives or ever contributing to the culture. So many bright and successful people have come here poor, needed help initially to get started, and then took off on their own. Most of them never would have accomplished much without the help they received of food stamps or a housing voucher.
Only allowing the better off to come here will just create a bigger chasm between haves and have-nots. And, when the haves are all wealthy foreigners and the have-nots are mostly poorer Americans, the divide could very well drive this country apart. Trump will bring America down one way or another.
3
I don’t think that is what the policy is supporting. Instead, I think the policy seeks to encourage the emigration of ambitious people willing to work hard and create a better life for their families. These are EXACTLY the people that have always made this country great. It includes my grandparents, who fled the Tsarist Pogroms, worked hard and saw children, grandchildren and great grandchildren become contributors to our great country, while never taking much in the way of government handouts (I have repaid my Pell grants an Stafford loans - great programs - multiple times over in taxes over the years). God bless immigration and this great country of ours. Come to this country, work hard, raise a family and contribute to this great experiment in democracy.
2
What is wrong with this? We have enough poor people of our own that need help, why should we be helping the poor people of other countries. Everyone compares today to the 1800s or early 1900s. There is no comparison between the two. To be successful today you have to have education of some type. You have to have skills of some type. Poor migrants that are poor now, will be poor forever. Why should my tax dollars be spent on supporting them.
3
We already have an alien of extraordinary ability classification as designated by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services. It's a priority visa for people who are accomplished in some area of life, arts to business. So why be surpised by this?
1
So just days after a mass shooting targeting immigrants. Trump silently agrees with the shooters manifesto by coming out with restrictions for legal immigration. No wonder his base loves him.
3
Where is a story describing the entry requirements which American citizens would have to meet in the other G20 nations? What financial assets would you have to prove in order to get a residency visa in, e.g., England, France, Australia, Canada, Japan, Germany, etc.? Do a chart to compare those requirements with what Trump/Miller/Cuccinelli want to require of Green Card applicants here.
8
@Jay
actually there are monetary requirements to legally immigrate to australia.
also canada insists on some sort of education so that you dont need hand outs,
4
Yes this is of course a common sense idea. Would anyone invite a stranger into their home and support them? Not likely , they would go broke or worry themselves sick about what’s going on when the stranger is left alone in their house with his family. Why should this country’s hard working people be forced to support some poor family from a country who has failed their people? Just because a pome from 1883? That was well over a hundred years ago. And is simply a ridiculous argument. Hell we can’t even take care of our own. Just look at our broken health care system or the VA hospital scandals. There’s an old American saying charity begins at home. I applaud this approach and though Trump has greatly cheapen the office even more then Clinton I support his immigration and trade policies they are common sense forget your PC and promote American values regardless of what the left says or how they twist everything this president tries to do to forward our country. Hillary lost get over it and like the song says “ the times they are a-changin!”
7
@JClark, but who will cut the lawns, make the cement and pick the fruit? Highly educated immigrants will not do those jobs. The purpose of low skilled laborers is to do the dirty jobs we don't want our own children doing. The evidence that this is a racist policy is that our country will give $28 billion this year to farmers because Trump's tariffs are burying them, but we won't support low skilled laborers who need help. Think about the hypocrisy of that.
1
I guess Trump will have to hide his (underpaid) illegal golf club construction crews from Stephen Miller and Ken Cuccinelli.
5
Let’s be clear: this rule is racist and discriminatory.
4
@Bevan Davies Exactly how is is racist? The policy mentions absolutely nothing about the color, ethnicity or anything about the person who the rule targets. Stop with the identity politics. Just stop!
4
Ahh , Republican pro- life platform at work again
2
As it reads on the plaque at the Statue of Liberty:
"Don't give me your tired. Don't give me your poor. Don't give me your huddled masses.
Give me your rich white men, yearning to vote Republican."
2
We do not take care of our own properly - not enough funding. Yet we must take care of 9M illegals - health care, food stamps, school and services - yet alone pay any taxes. Business hire them instead of paying full wages etc. We need legal immigration but only those those who pledge not to depend on US to take care of them.
6
Makes perfect sense. Entry should be based upon merit. Why should we take on immigrants who will be permanent burdens? If you disagree with me, please PM me for my address so that you can send me all the cash that you want. I will put it to good use.
8
Trump probably would have liked to bar his parents-in-law from immigrating here so he won't have to deal with them.
1
We need to encourage the poor to come to the US. Who will do the jobs US residents don't want to do? There is plenty of space in the US. Let the rich whites stay where they are. Norwiegens, contrary to Trump's opinion, do not want to come to the US.
1
@as
There would be plenty of U. S. citizens to do the work that illegal immigrants do if public assistance programs were cut back dramatically. Some U.S. recipients of welfare are choosing not to work because they can get by with the public assistance benefits that they are receiving. I know that if I was hungry and knew that there would be no food stamps, I would work in a hotel as a maid, cook, or dishwasher, or learn how to do construction work, or whatever it took to feed myself and my family.
3
Yes, those who come here with skills and a good work ethic are favored over those looking to mooch. Just like at Ellis Island a hundred plus years ago. What a terrible concept.
4
Trump is undermining just about everything he turns his attention to because of his basic ignorance about just about everything.
In the case of immigration, the U.S. thrives on embracing people who are sufficiently motivated to move from their homeland to a different country and invest the sweat off their brow to make it work.
That has been the case since before the country was founded, with British and other Europeans fleeing religious persecution and poverty. It is the story of wave after wave of immigration over the country's history.
It is that hunger and need to "make it" in America that revives deteriorating neighborhoods and cities, with new restaurants and other immigrant entrepreneurship.
But that entrepreneurial drive needs to be constantly renewed with new immigration --it dissipates rapidly, with successive generations of immigrants being more socialized to the "American way," and more interested in becoming doctors, lawyers, soldiers, first-responders, etc., than desirous of taking over a labor-intensive family business.
That uniquely American cycle of embracing new immigrants and their entrepreneurial spirit will be lost if Trump has his way and more immigrants to this country come here with their own wealth, for reasons of the wealthy.
2
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
The Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation, Inc.
1
Long overdue! New Zealand for many years has had a similar requirement for immigrants.
13
Not really. May seem like that on paper. Skilled immigration is a term that is often bandied around but is a bit mythical.
We can't have it both ways. Either we respect the text displayed at the base of the Statue of Liberty, "Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor, ..." and we act on that, or we replace it with another, like "Game Over" and we champion Trump's contempt for the poor and needy.
Maybe we should also change "God Bless America" to "God Save America" (from Trump's racism).
3
Wealth is already a facilitator in immigration procedures. I know of wealthy Europeans who moved to the USA simply by demonstrating that they have millions in assets and therefore can sustain themselves (and presumably add to the economy thanks to their purchasing power). Getting a visa for these people was never a problem.
On the other hand, education and skills (and their matching to the needs of the economy) should be the primary metric for evaluating younger and not-so-wealthy applicants. This is the system that Canada uses. I know a young couple of Nigerians (both were my classmates at business school) who got their residence and work permits in Canada thanks to their high level of education and skills, got married and now have Canadian-born children. The skill-based selection system seems very good at finding people who can get valuable jobs and contribute to the economy of the country.
7
@Location 01: "Our public housing and food stamp programs are already short on what is needed. Our housing wait lists are insane" Do you ever wonder "why" those conditions exist? Why do we need to "import" skilled labor? Is our education system lacking or too expensive for our natural born citizens to obtain the skills for these jobs? Is so much wealth concentrated at the top that people who are working still need these services? In a country that prides itself on its greatness, why do we not have enough of our own citizens to fill positions that require an advanced education or technical training? Why are people who work in so called "unskilled" jobs not earning a decent wage? Does anyone think that someone who cleans rooms in an hotel or works in a restaurant kitchen works less hard than an executive sitting behind a desk in an office? Let's put the blame on those low wages where it belongs; it's the employers who prefer to hire immigrants for low wages not the immigrants who take those jobs. You state that we need to fix those problems first. I wonder why those problems still exist.
8
We are talking about a change that, unreality, won’t have a significant effect on immigration policy. Arguably, the announcement is another attempt to appeal to Trump’s base and perhaps a few undecideds who assume falsely that Democrats are in favor of unrestrained immigration for poor people who will immediately be receiving food stamps.
And how does a rationale person justify the argument that the (statistically rare) immigrant who arrives with a job and pays taxes, then circumstances change and needs temporary government support, should be denied a green card and booted from our country? It seems a fair and just extension would then support a policy that boots any citizen out who requires government assistance. Send them back to the country of origin of their ancestors. No free rides here in the USA.
And what about the prospective immigrant who eagerly provides his new full time job at WalMart document to the authorities? Do they let him in? A good percentage of WalMart workers are receiving government assistance.
3
Through May 2019, Donald Trump's golf rounds have cost an estimated $100 million to taxpayers.
Every hour, taxpayers in United States are paying
$32.08 million for Total Cost of Wars Since 2001.
At least 60 companies reported that their 2018 federal tax rates amounted to effectively zero, or even less than zero, on income earned on U.S. operations, according to an analysis released by the Washington, D.C.-based think tank, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy.
For so many people these wastes are just fine. When it comes to helping immigrants who pay taxes and live here, OH MY, that is unacceptable.
"We don't have money to help those immigrants in need." I think that is something this country can be ashamed of.
"Our own citizens aren't getting what they need." That's because the GOP looks after the wealthy. Vote them out of office.
14
When I was a child, my green-card-holding father lost his job as a tool and diemaker when the company he worked for closed. He collected unemployment insurance until he found another job.
If farmers and ranchers, meat and poultry packers, wineries, fisheries, restaurants, hotels, spas, greenhouses, etc. want workers, then they should support immigration policies that enable them to get those skilled workers, pay them a living wage that ensures they are not on the public dole for housing and SNAP vouchers, and guide them to a path of citizenship.
7
Most rich people don't create anything. They move wealth around and keep a bunch of it. While many enable wealth creation, the real wealth creators are those build houses, grow food, basically take something and make it worth more. This is who enriches our society. And this is who we should be encouraging to move here.
This wealth test is the opposite of what this country needs.
7
Two issues with this reporting...first, the reporting refers to wealth as the ultimate measurement while education & language skills are actually of equal importance. I have met with middle age(or older) immigrants who have no marketable skills, no formal education in their native languages, and do not speak English. Why would anyone believe that they would ever be able to support themselves in today’s economy?
Second...opponents estimate that this might affect 26 million people! Obviously they are saying that there are 26 million immigrants who would be in need of government assistance. That kind of assistance is simply not sustainable.
7
I’m in healthcare and have seen entire immigrant families on medical assistance showing up for one person’s appointment while all using the latest cellphones. Are any working? Maybe. Using benefits legally?
But there are plenty of the poor who have been on the dole for multiple generations. Do the rules apply to them? In rural America they vote for dt.....?
5
Before people jump to conclusions about this issue, please understand that immigrants can have a safety net for a period of time but not use it as a way to gain entry or make a career from the welfare system. This is something that I have heard many people condemn citizens for. It's intended for a hand up. Also, pregnant women and children still have access to the subsidies needed. Persecuted and legitimate asylum seekers are exempt. Why is immigration status put before citizenship? SMH
5
Good to know that my great-grandfather would not be welcome now. In 1905, he came to this country without knowing a word of English (a language he never learned), much too poor to qualify for the current administration's new guidelines, all because he didn't want to work in the mines of his native Poland. Yet again, this administration makes me embarrassed to be an American. Give me your poor, indeed.
2
Rampant lies and deceit are the most troubling aspect of the Trump administration. Without truth there can be no rational discourse. This latest immigration debacle typifies Republican willingness to distort and deceive. New immigration are all about making and keeping America White and Christian. Economics have no part in the policy. Republicans want to keep people out of the country who are uneducated, unskilled and "likely to end up on welfare."
Consider these two contrasting stories. My grandparents came here with no education or skills, my grandfather working as a chauffeur. I am now a very successful professional. He was able to come here, have children and grandchildren with successful careers because he was White.
I know well a Muslim from an Arab country who works here in a food service establishment. He is very dark, speaks with a heavy accent and works 10 hours a day, 7 days a week. He just told me his daughter was accepted to Princeton, the only graduate of her suburban high school to be accepted. He came here with no skills, education or money. His daughter is the Valedictorian. Trump's rules would keep him out today.
5
How about a wealth test for presidential candidates? Those who run should not be allowed to inflate their net worth...imagine that. We could Make America Rich Again.
3
Who does Trump and Miller et al think made this country so rich? It was poor desperate immigrants. It was the enslaved who were brought against their will. It was impoverished people from all over the world who came here, not land barons or royalty from Europe. The people who came here willingly were escaping persecution and poverty. Those who were forced here did most of the hard labor for free! Trump has a very skewed, distorted vision of wealth, work, and history. He doesn't know our history. He behaves like the aristocracy early European settlers came here to escape. He behaves like the dictators many are fleeing now. He doesn't understand that America is a refuge unlike any other place in the world. We have been until now working to correct our flaws such as the legacy of slavery and its legacy of racism. Trump takes us backwards, destroying progress, destroying our ethos and soul. Who does he think he is?
3
Even a passing familiarity with United States' immigration laws will reveal that said laws have long discriminated in favor of immigrants that the government deems to be more desirable.
2
Are immigrants also to be denied access to public schools, public libraries, police and fire protection, use of public streets, etc.? This rule is preposterous and decidedly UnAmerican! The courts cannot strike down this rule fast enough!
Most other countries practice this sort of vetting process. When applying for a student visa for Barbados, I had to provide proof of financial support and pledge not to work during my stay. If instead I had went to school in Italy the same thing would have been asked.
6
1.) It is my understanding that Canada, which one often sees held up as a bastion of civility in these sidebars, has much more stringent immigration requirements than the U.S. Applicants must be high skill, in demand professionals, or posses rather significant personal assets. Low or semiskilled persons need not apply.
2.) Any Democratic candidate that vociferously opposes these changes, is toast in the general election.
18
Rhetoric is important. This rule might not be so odious if Trump and Stephen Miller had used consensus-building words to describe their intentions. I work in the UK on a temporary visa, and I had to prove in my application that I will be financially independent. The EU has similar rules. It is fair to say that examining financial details of immigrants is pretty standard in the western world. However, I pay taxes in the UK, and therefore, I am eligible (in fact, encouraged) to use the public healthcare system, the subsidized public transport system and other benefits. (To be fair, I am not eligible for welfare in the UK). Nobody I've encountered here calls me a leech for using government services because there is a general consensus of a shared society where everyone benefits from the support system. Conservatives in America have deliberately chipped away at the mutual trust needed for such a system to have broad public support. Liberals should not be expected to now assume that Trump is acting in good faith.
1
This is consistent with all of Trump's policies. Favor the wealthy first. It is a very sad day when we can't give all people the same opportunities. This has to be unconstitutional.
There are very few public benefits for which non-resident aliens are themselves eligible; far more likely are people whose citizen or resident household members use benefits. Likelihood to become a public charge has been a ground of ineligibility for legal permanent residence (green card) for decades. It's the obnoxious attitude about it that's new.
1
FYI
I have been researching American Slavery and Immigration policies from 1850 forward.
According to sources we always required immigrants and refugees to have gainful employment or wealth set up with a sponsor such as the Railroad or a factory. Then we started quotas of “ undesirables. “
At first Asians then Eastern and Southern Europeans by 1918.
Alexander Graham Bell wrote a treatise in a 1918 copy of National Geographic. He was a racist.
We have parallel problems
Racism and Slave Reparations
Racism was rampant
Slaves were predominately Blacks
We failed our former slave families and our immigrants too.
It is the “Puritan Mystique “ gone dark and wicked. Think fundamentalism as well. We should all start reading books again. And research like crazy about history , religion and economics specific to the pre war years 1850’s onward to trump racism.
1
I believe our Northern neighbor, Canada, has a policy like this. That's why a friend in her 60s with a newly minted PhD couldn't emigrate there to join her son, without having a job lined up. Otherwise, Canadians would've been on the hook to support her and provide her medical care. I've voted Democrat all my life, but on this issue, too many in this party are getting their shorts in a knot over sensible immigration restrictions. They come off as wanting open borders when no other country does. This is going to put Trump back in office.
8
Wealth and “a job lined up” are 2 very different things.
2
I wonder who he and his supporters thinks picks all of our food in the USA. Who supports the wealthy / all of us/ with their hard labor ?
Americans won’t and can’t do the work Central Americans and other poor immigrants do in this country.
1
Excluding immigrants who might need benefits might seem like a reasonable idea but why stop there? Why don't we just expel those who fall into the maw of regular need for government cash?
We might start with those poor people who use the earned income tax credit.
And continue on with those regularly seeking payment from tax deductions (above overpayment and disaster support) to include:
-- oil depletion allowances
-- deductions for real estate losses (e.g. 666 5th Avenue)
-- anyone who has declared bankruptcy more than twice (I am looking at you, 45!)
-- Social Security disability payments (a large swath of rural poor)
-- Anyone who has needed rescue from opioid overdose more than twice (excessive use of health services)
And, if we are really serious about needing to make people stand on their own two feet:
-- Anyone who calls for help from police or fire services
-- Anyone who checks a book out from the library
-- Anyone who drives on a road he did not build
Or just expel everyone and return the country to the Native Americans who were doing a fine job of managing it before we came.
Will the last one leaving please turn out the lights?
4
Trump disgusts me in infinite ways, however he wins on this. Turn the story, and the left is fine with immigrants that can’t take care of themselves. It’s common sense, if you want to come to this country, bring the ability to support yourself. Nothing could be more in line with the founding of this nation.
12
Most legal immigrants, especially from Asia, neither use social welfare nor any other government benefits, nor do the refrain from paying taxes. Most of the time they are doubly penalized...giving more than they get. Soon America will be a land of rich, mostly Anglo, citizens represented by Republicans, with illegal immigrant slaves represented by the Democrats. Legal immigrants will be squeezed, exploited and driven out. It is already happening. Good luck to America. It is becoming a difficult country to understand and deal with. Smart educated people are migrating out. I am going to be one of them.
3
@ExhaustedFightingForJusticeEveryDay Oh yeah. I worked in a medical and social services center in NYC. The patients were mostly elderly non-English speaking Asian people. We provided translation services. They were all on Medicare and Medicaid and receiving other social benefits. I made a pretty good salary working in that center so I guess you can say those immigrants made a job for me and the others working there.
2
Which is exactly what the UK, and many other countries do. What's the problem? The world is full of dross, nothing obligates the U.S. to accept all or any of it. As an aside, perhaps the U.S. should stop trying to destroy other countries and instead help build them up. This would go a long way toward addressing the issue at hand. Until that unlikely event, Americans do not have to penitentionally accept every wayward soul from around the world. Particularly, because Americans themselves didn't cause the problem but successive administrations have.
4
This rule should be applied even to those who applied for and got green card and citizenship over the last twenty years.
10
There are a lot of opinions here about whether tax money should subsidize the lives of legal immigrants, but nothing in this article about the reasons why these folks need help, how much they contribute in taxes to the system, employment levels, average income, and how these immigrants compare to US citizens economically.
What percentage of legal immigrants are unemployed?
What is the average and median incomes for legal immigrants? How does this compare to US citizens?
What is the average amount of assistance collected by legal immigrants compared to that of US citizens?
How many weeks on average do legal immigrants receive assistance compared to US citizens?
Are wages such in the US that you can work at a full time job and still need government assistance to get by?
In other words, maybe the problem isn't about legal immigrants getting assistance, but US jobs that don't pay a living wage for immigrants OR citizens?
While we are at it, why don't we extend this policy and deport ALL American citizens who require public assistance?
18
At least our kids will now be able to get those long sought-after menial labor jobs formerly filled by immigrants.
12
My father came from Germany to the US in 1927, became a citizen in 1935.
His parents came in 1939, after Kristallnacht.
My dad hd to sign a federal affidavit attesting the he would support them if they became public charges.
They didn't - grandpa got a job. They became citizens in 1945.
10
I've got news for those people blaming immigrants for their problems. Your problems would still be there with or without immigrants. Take this as a wake up call.
9
"Trump Policy Favors Wealthier "
You can stop right there !
6
This new policy is immoral.
3
Pretend Trump, Mnuchin, DeVos and others of their financial means were applying to emigrate here. Would we really be better off with them and their ilk getting preference as opposed to those who want to be here to live work and strive fairly in line with the way our system is supposed to operate.
4
America, America-we welcome all. We extend our hand and pull those destitute to our shores. We offer hope, happiness and a new way of life. We want our country to grow and prosper. Our past experience has shown that immigrants are what has made our country great-until Trump came along. This man and men he hires have tarnished our good name. We are the melting pot of the world and it is that that makes us Americans. Pure gold is useless as it bends too easily. But add an alloy to it and it becomes stronger, usable-that is America. The policy that Trump and his minions want will weaken our society and makes all poorer. Hopefully, Trump will be gone sooner than later. But he will be gone eventually and hopefully we can undo the sheer terror of his administration.
4
When my parents immigrated in the 1960s they interviewed at the local U.S. embassy and had to have a job letter from an American employer willing to hire them. It was only then that they were approved to immigrate. They got their green cards after they arrived.
10
one always had to have a job to get the immigration process go forward. one always had to show liquidity (I had to, 15 years ago). it was not different with your relatives. the difference now is that the administration is picking the "richer" ones
2
If this rule was in effect when Trump ‘s own mother immigrated from Scotland she would not have qualified because she had no education or skills; she could only work as a maid. There is nothing wrong with being a maid at all, lots of immigrants who came to this country legally became maids some due to lack of the English language, but they pulled themselves by their bootstraps, learned the language, acquired skills and with their hard work instilled values in their children to get an education and become full contributing members of society and fill the tax coffers. I personally know dozens of such families, their children are teachers, lawyers, doctors, landlords, architects, engineers, taxi cabs owners, etc.
Some countries where the people don’t look like Donald Trump are known for their rigorous educational appetite and their populace are routinely hired by banks, tech companies in the US; those folks are not White.
4
Actually, she had to be sponsored to come to the USA. Her sister had established herself here already so Mary lived with her AND worked. Mary had to have a job or return to her home country. She did not become a citizen until 1942, years after coming here on a work VISA and not until she showed she could support herself (or have family support her as a lot of women, at the time, had family or husband's sign to financially support them).
I'm not saying that Trumps policy is a good one, but if we are going to advocate for fair and just policies, we have to look at the full picture and give examples of when the types of policies we are advocating for have been in place in the past. We can find examples of how much time immigrants should have to show that they will be able to support themselves.
5
Half of the population of Maine could not pass this income test. Where should they go when asked to leave?
9
Nothing new about this. Been on the books for about 150 years. Most every country has same requirement. Demonstrate ability to support oneself, and or have a US citizen as your sponsor.
Trouble is that this requirement has not been administered as it should be . . . that has been going on for about 50 years.
Enforce the law. Open arms to all who can stand on their own two feet and/or have a sponsor. PERIOD
15
As always lately, the alarmist headline belies the fact that much of this policy is already in place and has been for 140 years. It is a necessary policy to protect the American taxpayer, something the NYT editorial staff needs to better appreciate, and reflect in more balanced coverage of immigration issues.
21
So why the announcement by the administration?
Because they changed a very key part of the requirement. Small change. Big effect.
3
I think it's time to knock down the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore..."
5
So Americans also don't want jobs as plumbers? Your comment points to precisely the issue: when you have a large pool of desperate people willing to take any job, employers have zero reason to raise wages and improve working conditions. Even in white collar jobs like computer science, being able to import foreign nationals to work for lesser pay and under the threat of losing their visa benefits employers. Do Americans not want those jobs either? If corporations couldn't tap into the visa system, they might have to get creative and set up apprentice systems to train American students in computer science or otherwise nurture the citizen workforce pool. But that would cost money. Can't affect ROI.
3
I’m All for immigrations and all, but why should we not make an effort to “import” talented new comers who will not cost tax payers even more than what we “contribute” to asylum seekers from murderous Honduras & El Salvador? Before you call me names...
Well, I recently had a major water damage disaster at my home, all three levels were submerged in water. The insurance & my wallet paid for the repairs. Every single individual that came, whether it be the painters, or the plumbers, hardwood experts, etc., they were all once dirt poor immigrants with ZERO money in their pockets. They all seemed exceedingly adept at what they did, getting the work done with lightening speed, quietly and gracefully, displaying the expert audacity that we value here in America. It seemed that the lesson learned was simple enough: even within immigrants, there’s a high degree of competition for low paying jobs...and that, is a very good thing.
The message on lady liberty strong as ever, but interestingly, the mind of a supposedly genius business man, economics “genius”, doesn’t seem to understand that even poor people can contribute to the labor force greatly. It’s better to have newcomers, desperately eager to work and earn the minimum wage (or usually, less than), dirt poor, happy to do the work Americans don’t want, than to keep relying on laborers who became complacent & lazy. It’s what powers the free market: competition?
I mean. I’m very happy with their work, affordable & perfect.
3
This announcement was made by Mr. Cuccinelli. With that last name, I wonder if his family came from Italy, like many other Italians, after war depleted Europe. Back in the day, Italians were not “desirable “ immigrants in the US. Oh the irony.
6
Italian and Irish ancestry.
Born in N.J., a state with a huge immigrant population.
He should be ashamed of himself. His grandparents surely would be.
6
Wow. My mother was an immigrant from Germany in 1950. She didn't find out until after her mother died that her parents never included her in their citizenship application so for a period of time she was a citizen of nowhere (in order to immigrate, her stepfather had to adopt her, he renounced his German citizenship thus she had no country). She was seven when she came here. When I was a young girl, my father disappeared. At 30 years old, she had to apply for welfare and food stamps to house and feed me and my siblings while she worked (2 jobs) in the 1970s. Under this rule, would she have been deported (and to where)? Or, would we just be left to live on the street begging? Incidentally, she repaid all the monies to the state when we sold our home and the Family Court Judge was not sympathetic when she attempted to sue my father for unpaid child support. She raised 3 children (one a business owner, and two college graduates- all taxpayers).
6
The sad truth is that working class Americans are just as often public charges as working class immigrants. Economic studies have determined that those who earn below the US median income cost more in benefits from food stamps to medicaid (when calculated over a lifetime) than they ever pay in. Yet we are happy to pay workers a pittance and accept the value of their work which makes middle and upper income life easy.
If we apply these rules, folks like Donald Trump may find that the cheap workers that we have relied upon for decade are simply not there. Agriculture and meat processing will be hit hard but so will hotel service and construction. Good luck to all of us.
5
Do you know what $64,000 for a family of four looks like? This is ridiculous. What? I can't use a bus pass without a background check?
Natural response: Show me your wealth Trump, I'll show you mine.
5
What have we become? And the beat goes on!
1
I don't know about other countries but in the US legal immigrants are some of the most exploited over qualified underpaid people I have met. I am one of them. With a PhD from a top university I worked my backside off for peanuts. I married an American citizen with a PhD and became eligible for citizenship ten years ago. But I chose not to become a citizen because of the way I was treated as a legal resident. On many occasions my husband the citizen wanted to leave his own country. In other countries, including Australia, I heard they encourage their legal residents to become citizens by being nice and supportive to them. The US makes many things unpleasant. Now the Democratic party represents illegal immigrants, the Republican party represents rich people and White citizens. Legal immigrants can drown with these two parties.
6
I am all for changing our archaic immigration laws to a merit based system if we can also change our archaic gun laws to a sense based system.
6
The wealth rule. A new definition of wealth: not being on a welfare.
6
This is the standard in most of the world--there is a notion that America should be better than this--There are things at which America excels and some at which it barely gets by. it is not particularly better or worse--it is a country struggling to manage change. Please not this exempts asylum seekers, refugees and pregnant women and children. This is not draconian--it is a standard in managing immigration that is voluntary. Some countries might be a bit more generous and many stricter--if you really want to facilitate immigration for those who most desperately need it--admit documented refugees and those needing asylum.
7
Trump's pronouncement's and policies are not so much about the policies themselves as they are about baiting Democrats into stating publicly unpopular positions in swing states. Democrats' reaction to Trump is now very predictable and the strategy here is to use that against them going into 2020. The Trump campaign knows he's unpopular but also know Democrats can still lose if they are properly baited and draw out the right soundbites. Now we will see Democrats advocating for immigrants requiring fewer resources to enter the country, and that's all the Trump team wants voters in Ohio, Florida, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to hear.
6
This is nothing new. When my grandparents arrived from Germany and Sweden in the late 19th century, they had to furnish proof that they had a place to live and a source of income so as not to be a burden to the country.
As rich as the country is, we do not have unlimited resources. Surely we owe it to our own struggling citizens to take care of them first.
14
This is not the United States.
3
That commenters are quoting from the Statue of Liberty as if it were sound immigration policy for the 21st century is simply laughable.
FYI: The Industrial Revolution is over...and it’s not coming back.
15
That's it, then, we are going to become like Canada regarding immigration.
9
The one thread Republicans held onto with regards to the Hispanic vote presumed that Hispanic Americans viewed the undocumented with some disdain. This attack on the documented will ruin the GOP long term because it's not based on status, but origin. Norway good. Mexico bad. Goodbye Texas.
1
How does Canada, our enlightened neighbor to the north, handle this question? Couldn't the poorer immigrants just go there?
2
This is the 2nd of two long articles on Trump's new policy. Funny, neither mentions the $60 billion savings to US taxpayers, which was the first thing Breitbart reported.
10
As we can all attest by now, money is no measure of a person's citizen-worthiness.
Look at all the rich ones guilty of dishonesty, corruption, immorality, and even treason--enabling enemy states to attack our elections.
We should welcome people based on need and potential, not money.
4
Why should America have to support immigrants? They should be capable of taking care of themselves. They are lucky to be accepted into our country. We have our own who need assistance but they do not qualify for aid. Americans first.
15
It's hard to comprehend that a person named Cuccinelli would announce such an abominable federal proposal. Most folks with Irish or Italian names were poor when they arrived. The only reason they didn't use food stamps or other programs for the poor is that those programs didn't exist.
There is a reason the verse in the NY harbor reads "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." If this administration can't figure that one out, maybe its base should find a new leader who can.
What on earth has happened to us, and what will become of this country?
4
If legal immigrants should not be using social benefits.
Then all OTHER working legal immigrants shouldn’t be paying US taxes as well.
Want to know a fun fact? US gvnt taxes all greencard holders on income they make overseas as well.
This ain’t a one way street.
6
This individual call Trump, is totallly out of control, he needs to feed his crowds with 100% of lies for distraction.The case of Epstein is very complicated, more than Russia.His crazy tweets can perfectly make him guilty , and nobody said anything yet about him being guilty.
1
Is it me or does this read as though if they believe an immigrant applying for entry is “thought” to ever need assistance they can be denied access and entry?
So basically if they are bigots they can simply deny on the pretense of their opinion.
1
This should start from the beginning of the process. Fill immigration places with those people who are skilled in the areas you need to fill. The rest of us in the developed world do that, why don't you? That way you know that the person coming will be able to fill a skills shortage gap that you need to fill and get a job. It's not racist - who cares what race the person is, as long as they can do the job, welcome them with open arms.
Forcing this new assessment on people who are already there is a bit harsh, though. Changing the bar like that is, to use a non-American phrase, just not cricket.
2
15 months out till Election America. What is Trump's America going to look like by then?
1
When your headline indicates a Broadened Assault; I am wondering if you realize that this economic consideration has been a part of the Congressionally mandated analysis of proposed immigrants for something over 100 years? The idea being, of course, that it makes no sense to allow immigration to those who are simply to become wards of the State.
10
I’m not an economist, but it seems to me the Trump Organization is going to have an awfully hard time recruiting immigrants who have financial security to work doing manual labor at its golf courses and clubs, ditto chicken processing factories, landscapers, nannies and slaughter houses. Just another way the Trump Administration, aided by weak and corrupt Republicans, do not understand the country they supposedly lead.
4
@Pietro Allar
I think they just use those international employment agencies that make big promises and then take half their pay while holding their passport.
This rule would have kept out Alexander Hamilton.
7
Why aren't employers of illegal immigrants being rounded up? They're the ones that perpetrated the whole illegal immigration phenomenon in the first place. Not only were they providing an incentive to desperate people for work but they were scamming them for low wages and no benefits ... all illegal. And who provided cover to these felons to operate this way unfettered on a massive scale for years?
8
Any intelligent immigration program should favour the skilled and those most likely to contribute positively to society. If that means favouring those better off financially or skilled migrants then so be it. People need to learn to differentiate between immigration and asylum. With immigration you pick the best and brightest. With refugees and asylum seekers you help as many as you can afford to help. It is logical
10
People keep mentioning "tax payers". Those are ordinary people. They don't get many breaks in America, "the greatest country in the world".
Yet there's no mention of those who cheat on taxes ,use loopholes, pile up their riches overseas in hidden bank accounts....and grow richer and richer. Where is THEIR fair contribution to the well-being and upkeep of the nation?
Trump's family have been cheats and frauds since they set foot in America ,and most likely were before.
6
well of course he favors the wealthy. they can afford the bribes that will be demanded.
1
The problem is that unless and until the Democrats actually come up with a comprehensive immigration plan of their own, Trump's sloganeering and pretend solutions will look good to many people, as they simply fills a void. Not only nature but politics also abhors a vacuum.
3
If Trump had ever been employed by anyone at any point in his life, pulled himself up by his boot straps, gave to his country rather than forcibly taken, been squeezed by the tax man, rent man, collections man or experienced just ONE " I hope I can grab a double shift to feed my family this week," I wonder where we'd all be?
4
The lottery of birth. How many Americans could meet these standards if there was a test every 5 years , who stays and who guess? Would it be fairer if America said nobody could enter. But then who would work in those slaughter houses , trim our trees, wash our cars, cook our fast food, etc,etc.
3
@Paul diamond
I am surprised there are people who do those jobs that can still find affordable indoor space to live in our larger cities, particularly on the coasts. I live in a mid-sized city in NY that has very affordable housing and hope all the artists come here as well as those who are willing to work the non-glam "day" jobs because we need them-- our hospitals need transporters, cleaners and food service workers as well as techs, nurses and doctors. Our farms need apple pickers, people who work in animal husbandry, dairy workers. Restaurants need servers, cooks, managers etc. We need social workers and teachers and people who know how to help the poor because we have a lot of poor people here too. We need people with imagination and optimism.
1
Those of us who care about the health care and well being of everyone on earth regardless of country of origin or legal status don’t have to wait for the federal government to solve these problems...we can donate, and donate lots of our money and time right now!
I read article after article, comment after comment where Americans feel they’re the victims of the federal governments inaction or bad policies and we are not! We can do more outside tax based schemes than within. Donate, donate big and donate now!
2
This seems a very sensible rule. Would-be immigrants who work, maintain a job and support themselves should obviously be given preference over those who do not.
13
Great new policy and long overdue. The makes a gross mischaracterization by characterizing such sensible approach as an "assault on the nation's immigration system".
Open borders and 'free everything' for all the world's poor (so long as they will be loyal Democrats) is an assault on the nation's immigration system.
14
Massive immigration is the direct consequence of the demographic explosion that was forecasted decades ago by the UN and nothing significant was done to address this apocalyptic problem .
This administration is particularly cruel withdrawing food and medicine from legal migrants and replenishing the pockets of the top 1% with unneeded money .
This is highly immoral .
1
There is inequality and there will always be inequality. Trump has always said he wanted wealthier immigrants. That is the way of the world. Money talks, the Democrats walk.
1
Sadly, I think it is time to give the Statue of Liberty back to France. We are no longer the country we used to be...
2
Given U.S. medical care costs and insurance that can deny coverage on a whim, any and all of us could require future public assistance. Not to mention the return of preexisting conditions, a future economic depression, and tariffs jacking up costs can impact "need".
So will this allow in more Russian oligarchs? Shouldn't there be an investigation of how money was acquired?
2
I see homeless Americans by the thousand. I see a deteriorating infrastructure. I see a growing debt. We need to take better care of our citizens first.
8
I live in a city with many illegal immigrants and many homeless people.
you can tell me, with a high degree of accuracy, which are US citizens; which have drug problems: which are reliable employees. Yes, we need to take care of our own. I do that all day long at my own job. Someone experiencing homelessness often needs a lot of care. They’re typically a long way from reliable help for others.
Most immigrants, especially those who are illegal, don’t ask to be taken care of: that’s too risky for them. They don’t drive cars with a taillight out. They take care of themselves. And work hard for their families.
On the one hand , we are told immigrants don't use the safety nets because they want to work and are a net gain.
On the other hand, enforcing a policy, for the first time, that has been on the books for decades which would not allow entry to immigrants who might be a public charge is inhumane and will impact millions?
So which is it? They're hard workers who don't need benefits or this is a terrible draconian policy that will insure misery and destitution?
10
This move to curb legal immigration is a shrewd political ploy. Trump wants to paint Democrats as being tax-and-spenders who put foreigners first. On the face of it, this may play well with some beyond Trump's base.
To combat this simplistic appeal. people of conscience must make the facts clear: by the Trump administration's own estimates this measure will save $2.47 billion annually in spending on public benefits. In contrast, the Trump administration's welfare for farmers suffering from Trump's tariffs on China is currently at $28 billion -- and counting.
The savings from Trump's cynical ploy is a pittance compared to the economic benefits immigrants have long brought to this country.
Trump is revoking the inscription of the Statue of Liberty for political gain. The soul of our nation is at stake. We must speak out against this travesty.
3
My Great Grandparents had to pass a means test in order not to be a public charge. They were all from Poland and skilled craftspeople. No one in our family was or became a public charge.
My English speaking foreigner husband (Canadian) had to provide proof of employment in 1980 when we were going to be married as part of the process.
America is a success story because we are a country of immigrants. Mine hailed from all over Europe. Factory workers, Rossy the Riveter, electricians, brick layers, builders, milkman (during the depression), railroad worker, office workers, university graduates with business, communications and finance degrees...all in 3 generations.
"We are a blessed country" this from an Ethopian Muslim friend of mine who worked as a cashier at my company's cafeteria. 4 kids, full time job and she was taking classes to improve herself for a better job. Green card lottery winner. I am richer knowing her.
Polish woman friend, another green card lottery winner, same story. 3 little kids, full time job, put herself through university. Didnt speak English when they first arrived. Daughters with Master degrees.
Immigrants who leave their countries for this "blessed land" enrich us.
I see brown people, recent immigrants who clean our offices and cook our lunches. I see them. They work 6 days a week, 2 jobs to provide for their families. Good kind people.
3
@Debbie
From my point of view, it is not that I think that we should attract the world's indigent with promises of welfare and SNAP benefits-- I don't hold with living that kind of life and I don't think it is good for anybody, whether a citizen or prospective legal resident. I view those social benefits as a safety net and one that should be used rarely. However, the world, even the US is not a stable place (well, we are more stable than other places but remember 2001, 2007-2008?). Massive job losses happen, people get cancer, have heart attacks, job injuries --have temporary setbacks which is what a safety net is for. I think that if a person is paying into this system, they should at least have the safety net for temporary setback. I think that is a fair bargain.
1
Why does a teacher need government benefits to support his family during the summer?
4
I am a permanent resident in Mexico. I had to prove that I have sufficient means to support myself. Mexico does not want indigent people burdening their system. I detest Trump but I don’t see a problem with this.
9
Maybe this will help the school systems that are struggling under the weight of educating the children of non-English speaking immigrants to the detriment of the children of US citizens. The liberal elite can educate their children in private schools and have their underpaid nannies care for them after school - it is grossly unfair to impose their “beliefs” on those of us who still want to send our kids to public school. While my children are out of high school, I can only hope for my grandkids that there is some rebalancing here - including providing funding to Central America - to stop the drain on the US educational system created by unfettered immigration. And make it fairer for US families trying to educate US kids.
7
@Louise
Hi, are you basically saying that you don't believe that immigrant children should be able to attend public school?
My mum came here from Germany in 1950 and attended a Catholic school in Queens for free (her parents did not have extra $) in the first year. In her class was a Dutch boy who was bilingual. She learned English in about 3 weeks, eventually forgetting her native German as she wanted to be American so badly. She later went on to attend other NY state public schools and ultimately earned a college degree.
Maybe all public elementary schools should also teach a second language so we can at least measure up to our immigrants who come here learning several themselves. Challenge our intellect.
Of course children of immigrants should be educated in public schools. But unless we provide far more funding, the quality of public schools is going to continue to suffer where there are large populations of low wage families who don’t speak English. Why is it so hard for liberals to understand that US citizens shouldn’t have to send their kids to schools where a teacher is struggling with a class that is more than half unable to speak English? (So now the US citizens kids have an even more inferior education than private school kids.) This is reality for many classes and liberals ignore this reality at the risk of welcome Trump in 2020.
This is a simple problem with a simple solution.
A fund should be set up that is voluntarily subscribed to by Liberals who love taking in people who will be going on welfare.
Then we can take in as many people as can be supported by the fund. If Liberals don't think we are taking in enough, they can contribute more to the fund.
And if there is a shortfall, the beneficiaries of the fund will be shipped back to their home country.
Payments to the fund, of course, will not be tax deductible.
6
What puzzles me: why would anyone from the seemingly preferred "target group" (Norwegian or at least well educated white skin Europeans) bother to relocate to the US for good?
Disfunctional health system, gun violence and wide spread racism are not really enticing.
I doubt that the US are getting a lot of immigration applications from this group (I'd tear up a green card even if it were presented to me on a silver platter, and safe for not being from Norway I'd fit into the category of a well-educated successful western European of caucasian race).
So Trump is actually using these new criteria for nothing else but yet another disguise to restrict legal Immigration for those who want may bring new ideas, but not a big cheque book with them. Does seem to be a 180° degree turn of decades if US immigration policies.
3
It's the American dream. From riches to riches.
1
Under this rule, if a woman immigrant comes into the country as a spouse, gets abused and thrown out of the house, ends up using social services, she will not be eligible for permanent residency. But her abuser, who is likely richer than her can get a slap on the wrist, stay off the books and sail into citizenship.
4
@Essar - If the abusive spouse is an immigrant hopefully the criminal charge for abuse will nix their citizenship application.
1
To live in Germany you must have certification of health insurance coverage and you must have certification of ongoing income that is enough to pay all your expenses. If you lose that income or insurance coverage you are subject to deportation. You need documentation from your local police authorities that there are no legal issues and this has to be submitted. Only then can you get an Aufenthaltserlaubnis. in addition that does not mean that you have a work permit. To have a work permit an employer has to apply and the local unemployment office has to certify there are no Germans or Asylanten who could qualify for the job. Then the employer can apply for you and you then can get a work permit to work for that employer. People might point to the millions of Muslim and African migrants as evidence that Germany is wide open for any migrant but the difference is they are being treated as refugees which is a different category.
8
This sounds an awful lot like the immigration system in place in the UK. My husband has to prove that he earns above a certain amount to permit me to live with him in the UK.
If any of my friends in the UK use this as an example of how I humane trump is, I will most certainly remind them that Teresa May thought of it first.
6
Doesn't Congress have a say in anything any more? Every day I read of some new rule passed by Trump to hurt the poor or our environment. It as if they are powerless to do anything. Time to reign in the power of the Presidency.
Try immigrating to Europe as an American citizen. It’s VERY tough. You have to prepare a dossier an inch thick just to get the first half of a first one-year visa, and you have to do that every year. Each country has its own requirement for financial solvency, and strict work controls. No country in the EU wants burdens on their social safety net or labor chaos. They don’t even want to pay to repatriate your body if you were to die on their soil. I agree with all that.
The U.S. has no social safety net for poor economic migrants, except for the de facto ER. The U.S. really should get its house in order. This issue spans all its political problems.
8
First some facts: Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps (SNAP), Medicaid or most public benefit programs. Citizen children do qualify for some, but not their undocumented parents.
Like so many have noted, undocumented workers, exploited or not, are paying taxes, Medicare and Social Security taxes, sales taxes just like everyone else working for a paycheck.
3
Facts: this sensible policy applies to legal, not undocumented, immigrants.
4
@Bill
Regardless of what they pay in taxes, they are still in the country illegally. They are illegal aliens, not "undocumented workers."
2
I do think we could solve a lot of problems if people were paid a living wage for a forty hour week, where does that High School teacher work, could it be in a non-union religious school? I think this is another Trump move that will win him re-election. Most countries do not allow immigrants in need of public assistance unless they are refugees or asylum seekers. If the opposition yell racism on this it will not work, the GOP does enough overt racist things don't dilute it. Calling Biden a racist because he was against forced busing 40 years ago didn't work either--these are very complex issues and objections are usually economic class based rather than race based. Calling this out on economic class might be reasonable-why should we shut the door on people who come here with nothing, is it so terrible that they might go on food stamps for a few months? The most important thing is to make employers pay a living wage and benefits for 40 hours a week of work and getting rid of the exploitative underground workforce.
4
Very few first world people are going to relocate here. It is too violent anymore. Those of us that are here need immigrants to help harvest our food, etc. Regular Americans are not going to do this type of work, it’s much too hard. The middle class and retirees that can afford it, and don’t have emotional ties, are leaving. More people leave the U.S. than immigrate here. The rest of us are stuck on Trump’s sinking ship.
2
Here's the problem with this:
"Immigration officials will consider an immigrant’s age, health, family status, assets, resources, financial status and education. But the officials will be given broad leeway to determine whether an immigrant is likely to be a user of public benefits, to deny them a green card and to order them deported." This will allow Trump officials to make arbitrary decisions on who gets to stay. This is a back door way of discriminating against Muslims, Latinos, and others that Trump thinks do not belong here.
2
@MKV There is absolutely nothing new about immigration law . It was always tough. Our gov failed to enforce it.
If I had come to US now, instead of 15 years ago, I'd be deported. I have paid millions of dollars in taxes. I wonder if someone could do an aggregate analysis of immigrants who came to the US poor but ended up contributing massively to the system and compare that to the cost we paid for helping the poor. I was eligible for food stamps but never got it because it culturally felt demeaning. This logic seems flawed.
5
In 15 years, you've paid MILLIONS in taxes? Right.
5
The idea that there should be criteria that aliens must meet in order to be selected as new immigrants is not cruel or harsh or facist or racist - it is the fairly standard approach of most developed and well regulated nations. Inherent in the idea of a nation is the ability to exercise some choice over who gets in. It is in a country's best interest to select people who can support themselves, among other selection criteria. Administratively fair procedures, yes, but the elimination of all or any selection criteria? Of course not.
4
I find it extraordinary that many commentators reject the idea of a merit-based immigration system.
Flooding the country with what amounts to slave labor drives down wages, shrinks the tax base, weakens the middle class, disenfranchises and alienates the working class, increases unfunded demand for health and education services, increases crime, emasculates unions and - the worst outcome of all for those of us wanting a more equal society - simply makes the rich richer.
This is exactly what has happened in the US over the past 40 years.
6
Even in my 70s now, I remember discussions with my grandfather and grandmother (immigrants from Easter Europe in the early 1900s) about coming to American and the path for citizenship. They were very clear that they had to be responsible for themselves, but also have sponsors with financial responsibility for them. Responsibility was always imbedded in our system of immigration.
Individuals citing Emma Lazarus and her famous quote about giving us your tired, hungry …. etc. as the meaning of the Statue of Liberty. A falsehood propagated by those who wish to support unfettered immigration of the poor and unskilled who are marching across our former border. The Statue of Liberty was an earlier gift from France to the US recognizing liberty and our contribution to it.
In this opinion piece, the author is wrong just about everything. He states that the action to assure immigrants are situated to take care of themselves is a "cruel step towards weaponizing towards weaponizing programs that are intended to help people. Sorry, these programs were never intended to provide for immigrants, but for American citizens. Individuals like the author, are fond of pointing out how harsh American rules are as compared to more desirable countries like Canada. Canada has an express admission policy for immigrants who have a sum of money to invest or start businesses. Do tenants in NYC public housing want Fed dollars spent on new immigrants or fixing crumbling, rat infested residences.
9
When I was legally living in America (Green Card) I was amazed when told I was eligible for certain social benefits. I never had the need and never did use it, but the the mere fact that I could baffled me.
Instead of kicking out legal aliens for having legally used the social system (though not morally) it would be a lot more advisable to do to things:
A - No benefits to legal immigrants - only US citizens
B - Raise the minimum wage so that there is no need for people to go without basic human needs.
3
Every application for a spouse or other family member is supported by a Form I-864 Affidavit of Support. The sponsor is liable for any use of means tested benefits by the immigrant. In the case of a spouse, the effect is circular. Receive benefits, receive a bill from USCIS. Maria's husband is fully responsible for her support. Unsponsored immigrants, such as asylum seekers, may not be covered by an I-864 so this change will impact them, but normal family immigration already effectively has a prohibition to receiving benefits built into the structure.
2
We are short what is needed to help our citizens because we give the American rich big tax breaks. Got tax cut under Reagan. Then under George W Bush. Now further tax cut under Trump.
I'm Ok with giving corporations tax cuts so they don't relocate to ireland or luxembourg, but NOT giving rich individuals tax cuts.
Not fair, and they are pulling away from the middle class, while they are (along with everybody else) wearing out America's infrastructure and unwilling to pay to replace it.
Rich Americans do not deserve more tax breaks. It will rip America apart, and that is not making America great.
2
I'm another American expat, living in Sweden for 22 years now. As a voluntary immigrant, I had to have a sponsor and show I could support myself to get first a temporary, then a permanent residence permit. This proposal isn't radical, and it makes exceptions for asylum seekers and other hardship cases. I dislike Trump and won't vote for him, but bringing the US into comformity with my adopted country makes sense.
6
You haven’t lived in the US for 23 years, why are you voting?
4
@Geoff Frank
Of course he can vote. I am an American citizen living in Thailand, and I still vote in every election.
1
@Geoff Frank
I vote because I'm an American citizen. I'm also a Swedish citizen and vote here.
1
Calculated and predictable ploy. He knows this is going to be THE issue in the 2020 election and he is going to hammer the Dems with it. Sadly, he will likely win against a fractured party while all his troops lineup solidly behind him.
1
President Trump seems concerned about people who are a drain on our society's resources and become a "public charge." Should we mention that Trump is the beneficiary of a questionable $900 million tax break, courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer, relating to his failed real estate dealings?
4
All of which will simply put the US on the same immigration footing and protocol with the long-standing protocols of Canada and Australia. Maybe the same as New Zealand and Hong Kong (unless I'm incorrect).
Global redistribution is needed. Big time. But offering an open gate policy of immigration will not only isolate and damage the immigrants as they attempt to settle in American neighborhoods, but in all likelihood kill the gold goose as well.
There exists an essay by Ben Franklin, written in the late 1700s, about the danger he saw in allowing so many , too many, Germans into Pennsylvania. Wrecks the labor market, etc.
This test seems to give the right to personally discriminate at the whim of the administration. I will give you an example, I know of thousands of Adjuncts Lecturers, the professors at large, that make little money a year, by design of the system, including the City University of NY, will they be able to meet someone not a US citizen and start a new life with them? It is cruel, unnecessary, and worse, gives the system a tool to impose a personal, ideological agenda, and family unification and reunification should be first priority. Moral bankruptcy.
1
We don't know what effect all the rule-changing will do, but it's unlikely that it will do anything good.
This article and others like it covering this new rule fail to point out that both documented and undocumented immigrants pay taxes. A study showed that immigrants in Arizona generate $2.4 billion in tax revenue, as opposed to $1.4 earned in benefits they receive. In Florida, another study shows immigrants in that state pay $1500 more in taxes per capita than they receive in public benefits. Immigrants comprise an important segment of the labor force. They are also consumers and contribute to our growing economy. This needs to be said. Why isn't it?
2
It is stark how Trump et al want to take away protections for the bald eagle, the grizzly, the humpback whale and immigrants all at the same time. If this administration had done anything high minded to help the poor and disadvantaged it might be possible to give them the benefit of doubt as to their motives, but endangered species might legally stand in the way of oil drilling and poorer people with talent but no money are to be turned away. A telling aspect of this is when immigrants do not have their own health insurance they are rejected, regardless of the fact that they might come from a country where there is no private health insurance. Catch-22 is now to be the face of American policy.
2
I am an American who legally became a Mexican Immigrant.
To qualify to live in Mexico, I had to:
- Prove I had an income
- Prove I had a significant net worth
- Prove I had insurance
- Provide a letter from the police department showing I was in good health
The process took ten years, during which time I was not allowed to work.
And, now, even as an immigrant, there are limits on my ability to own property, comment on Mexican politics and I cannot vote.
The US needs the same kind of common sense system for immigration as they have in Mexico.
Every country's first priority should be its own citizens.
7
America has always been a very generous country. American taxpayers provide tens of billions of dollars each year for food, health, housing, and other forms of aid to the poor and disadvantaged, including food programs in schools. We send tens of billions of dollars every year to third world countries to help support food programs and other aid. Our military provides protection around the world; again, these are American taxpayers providing such aid. America has plenty of faults and Americans are not always united. We find plenty to disagree on. But, collectively we do care about others.
2
We need to examine the immigration laws in depth and whether those undocumented persons/families have followed the law. Have they been accepted into the country and have they begun the immigration process? Have they attended their asylum court dates for instance? Has the country enforced the laws for the benefit of its citizens? Has this been fair to those who have immigrated legally and have entered the difficult naturalization process?
I see no problem with this. I am a US citizen who moved to the UK eight years ago on a work visa. When I married a UK citizen, she had to apply for a spouse visa on my behalf. The level of financial information she needed to provide was incredibly detailed. The process was so difficult that we needed to hire a solicitor. The visa was good for only 2 1/2 years after which we we needed to repeat the process. After five years I had to apply for indefinite leave to remain. A year later I applied for my UK citizenship. The group at my swearing in ceremony was very diverse ethnically and, I suspect, economically. All were incredibly proud to be there as they had worked hard to prove they were and would continue to be good citizens.
13
I live in the UK. Applying for permanent settled status here consisted of some cursory background stuff but mostly testing for financial independence.
This is not unique to America, and it just makes good sense.
19
@malcome. Another great British idea, like brexit. Try harder hon.
This isn't wrong. It may be something that shouldn't be present for asylum cases, but yes, even Democrats support and write laws to try to pick the best new citizens for America, and yes, that rule about not adding more people to our country who are on welfare has been around a very long time. I'm also not sure where this is a change.
11
Quite frankly, there isn't much of an incentive for people to emigrate to the U.S. at this point if they are not poor and coming from struggling nations. The U.S. health care system is a disaster, the country's infrastructure is crumbling, daily necessities are expensive, labor conditions tend to be harsh, with limited protections and vacation time, the sense of entitlement ("America is the greatest country in the world") is fairly unbearable etc. etc. There are many countries that provide a much better standard of living for their citizens. Since people generally emigrate to find a better life in their new home country, they would have to be pretty desperate to even want to live in the U.S. For Europeans, the Shining City on the Hill lost its appeal quite a while ago. I think Trump will have a hard time finding those "wealthy" immigrants who are prepared to put down roots in America. Sure, the truly wealthy of the global elite use the U.S. as a hub to educate their kids, park their assets in real estate and go shopping in NYC -- but they are no longer interested in becoming Americans.
32
I agree. It’s much worse than that, though. People don’t even want to come to the US temporarily.
There are great job opportunities in my field in the US, but as a European who is used to the German system and a mother of young children I have decided to forgo these opportunities. The US is just not a place worth living in at the moment. And I say that as a person who has lived in the States and has family there.
2
Will the government stop collecting social security and Medicare taxes from visa holders here onwards? also, will the govt. pay them back prior withholdings in arrears, with interest included?
14
@Rakesh If you want to work in the US you must pay Social Security and Medicare charges. some people never qualify for benefits, some people die before they collect, some live to 100, it's insurance. The US also has reciprocal agreements with many countries that have social security programs for their citizens, quit complaining.
3
@Rakesh
Here's a better idea: Require all immigrants to pay an additional 1% in federal income tax just for the privilege of being able to work in the US.
2
Wealth or skills? The ability to support oneself and through that effort support the country.
I'm still not seeing where this is unexpected.
9
Yup. That's what Europe does as well as I found out when I tried to get Greek citizenship (my wife is first generation Greek) and they told me that I either needed to bring in $250k cash or have a business that employed 5 or more Greek workers.
15
I’m an American expat living in Germany for fifteen years, and also also a passionate liberal. That said, I’ll say this; When I moved here three things were required to apply for a working permit: 1. That you’ve got a job, 2. That you have Health insurance, and 3, You’ve got at least 2,000 € in the bank. The point that I shouldn’t be a burden on the State seems reasonable enough for me. But my situation is naturally a very different from the Syrian refugee who has fled his country out of desperation, and has been welcome in Germany without these requirements, aided and given opportunity. And this situation is treated differently, of course.
28
Just having €2,000 in the bank is not going to cut it at this time in Germany. You need documentation of ongoing monthly income and you need documentation of ongoing health insurance with paid premiums and this has to be submitted to the authorities on a yearly basis and if you do not have it or lose it you are subject to deportation. You cannot stay in Germany. so the German system is a lot tougher than the case in the US. The pregnancy exception is remarkable. Essentially anybody who is pregnant can come to the United States and live with government support. Americans should be allowed to vote for whether or not they agree with it.
6
"Her husband, a childhood friend from Colombia, is an American citizen, and she is in the United States on a tourist visa while she applies for a green card with him as a sponsor."
So she is not eligible for consideration as a public charge because she is the spouse of a citizen and they are explicitly exempted by the public charge law itself, regardless of implementation.
10
We should clearly let in some people with lesser means, control who we let in, and decide that by democratic processes that Trump would abandon.
But immigration spots should not go to those who are best at breaking the rules of the country they claim to be coming to for love of its rules.
Be forewarned: this may all be moot in twenty years, when climate change makes many of us want to leave the Desert States of America.
8
The US has not been the most welcoming country for immigrants for a long time. It has one of the toughest systems - even green card through (a real) marriage is a nightmare process. It is also practically impossible to move here legally from central America. That is, unless you have money. I happen to know that anybody who can afford to spend ten to twenty thousand dollars on a lawyer will get a green card regardless of how qualified they are based on the various criteria that are applied to those without such money. I have seen this happen several times now.
When the border faces a poor country and there is no feasible mechanism in place for legal immigration, it is no wonder that there are millions of "illegals".
I'll conclude with the few words to ponder on government and its problems. People say that there is gridlock and comprehensive immigration reform cannot pass. That is not dysfunction. The gridlock reflects the will of the people who are divided on this and many other issues. Unless people find a unity of purpose or one side wins, the gridlock is going to stay with us.
9
As an immigrant myself, and someone who applied for my Green Card one year ago, struggling to understand what is “new” here. My sponsoring relative (in my case, my spouse) had to prove this exact thing. What is new and different here? Also, if we strip away all the politics, is it so bad to ask that we can be supported by our families? I can imagine if refugees and asylum seekers should have a special pass, but is it really too much to ask that the average immigrant enter the country with at least some degree of support?
46
The phrase an ‘Average Immigrant’ is completely meaningless. Not a definable quantity!
Of course, a refugee, by definition will not likely have means to support himself/herself and family in the beginning, although he/she could become a contributing member of the society over time.
For wealthy people who want to migrate to another country, they of course need to completely support themselves financially as well as do the duties as citizens paying taxes. They are expected to contribute even more to the migrated society because they are financially capable of pursuing a so-called better life in their opinions.
3
the only good thing is that refugees are exempt.
And let's not forget that most immigrants, regardless of their legal status, have not been eligible for most government benefits since the 1996 Welfare Reform Act.
7
This sort of immigration rule is already in the law. Not sure why it is so appealing for democrats to go against law enforcement for immigration. It is so easy to romanticize helping a poor pregnant immigrant while millions suffer in the country where they come from. Is it not more rational and optimal to help out those countries directly instead of sheltering a few? It is almost like the opposite of FoxNews' fear-mongering, an emotional play on a familiar problem.
15
You mean supporting the corrupted ruling class of those countries by giving them directly or indirectly financial aid? Music to their ears.
3
The person who creates the most expensive public burden in this country, is likely, the current so-called President of the United States. Aside from financial burden, flying here, flying there, (is it every week-end?) and all that is involved in that travel, there is the burden due to lack of human empathy, nuance, caring, wise discernment, clarity, intellect, any and every fine quality one would expect from the leader of this office. This one burden is so very great upon this country presently.
23
They want to give wide discretion to officials to decide whether people are likely to use services IN THE FUTURE and deport them. What has become of the country I love? The one that gave my lowly family a chance to start over. The one that provides the opportunity to build a business and give subsequent generations ever greater opportunities. What is wrong with us? The striving of immigrants has made this country stronger, not weaker.
13
Shouldn't we check to see if trump has the means to support himself. Looking at his tax returns would be a good start.
26
Population density in the US: 92 residents per square mile. Population density in the United Kingdom: 671 residents per square mile. I'm just saying that the US does not have an immigration crisis.
17
The average American isn't aware of the number of green card holders who avail themselves to public services such as Medicaid (twice the rate of US citizens). Green card holders also qualify for the earned income tax credit at much higher rates. That being said, 70% of Americans think that newly arrived immigrants should be self supporting. All of the outrage on the left over this policy is only going to push that number higher and is a looser for the Dems in 2020.
25
Reading the comments here, I am inclined to believe that Trump has led the Democrats into a trap and they are happily falling into it. This is a logical policy implemented by every other country. But Democrats are so blinded by their opposition to Trump that they fail to see that this is a sensible policy and instinctively oppose it - not on its merits but because it came from Trump. This kind of illogical thinking is guaranteed to re-elect him.
44
@Michael
I agree. I retired to Thailand 4 years ago, and every year when I go in to have my visa extended, I have to prove that I have a certain amount of money coming in each month. The reason is both reasonable and obvious: the Thai government wants to know that I won't become a burden on the state.
11
As a disabled veteran, I would like to see our Nation take care of my disabled comrades before spending money on non-citizens.
36
Quell, the Republicans won’t allow us to take care of our veterans. Otherwise it would be happening.
1
One nuance many miss on the Statue of Liberty is that that poem was written in, as the article mentions, in 1903. What was the federal income tax rate in 1903? 0%.
How did we pay for our social programs for individuals, let alone migrants, unable to support themselves? No such programs existed. There were 'poor houses' where people could put in a hard days labor for a little bit of cash and a warm meal, but in general people were forced to contribute to society or they would be unable to feed themselves.
This resulted in a radically different view on migration. It meant every single migrant was a net positive on society, or they'd be gone in short order. And so there was very nearly 0 downside to migration. The poem, when it refers to "your tired, your poor, your huddled masses" is speaking of those that would be able to make something of themselves in the United States and live 'the American dream' - not those likely to end up relying on handouts as a means of self sustenance.
19
This new rule is not rascist. Welfare and other government programs were designed to help struggling American citizens. This rule also does not apply to those seeking asylum, refugees, and pregnant women. So it's clear that Trump is not as evil or racist as everyone wants to believe he is.
It also seems completely understandable to me to expect people, especially those who immigrating to a new country, to not only have a job but not be a burden on the rest of society. If an American citizen moved to another country that citizen would not be expecting the foreign country to take care of them. The responsible thing to do would be to find a job before moving, and a place to live.
These programs can barely take care of our citizens let alone immigrants.
21
I would not say that the rule so passed is entirely wrong but the basis for the same somewhere lacks credibility and empathy. The country at the end is all about it's people and there must be some way out for those 26 millions immigrants to survive.
2
Miriam NY
excellent comment
This bogus policy is a scare tactic to promote fear among lower income citizens in particular, fear that they have been and still could be competing with immigrants for federal benefits. Actually, when Congress passed the 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA), aka welfare reform, which restricted eligibility by prohibiting most immigrants who entered the US on or after August 22, 1996 from receiving the federal benefits of Medicaid, CHIP, TANF, SNAP and SSI.
So this so-called new policy is just riding on the back of something that is already on the books, but it serves Trump because it helps create civil unrest and fear. What a guy.
This is all about pitting poor Americans with a good veil of propaganda to against Immigrants.
It is all about distraction and baiting.
9
It’s a perfect divisive issue because the various categories of immigrant and diversity of policies between the states give us, the commentariat, such wildly differing ideas about how the system works, with lots of divergent anecdotal stories of people we know.
1
The Statue of Liberty is an icon of what our nation stands for. The words on her lips directly disagree with President Trump’s desire to ban poor immigrants and those from underdeveloped nations. She is also called, “ Liberty” and “The Mother of Exiles” and she says,
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
I’ve never liked labelling someone as un-American but I never thought we’d have a president who disagreed with “Liberty”.
5
@ruth.ruth.ruth Sigh. It’s just a poem, not a law.
3
A 'wealth test' to see if immigrants can support themselves is a very good idea. Bravo! Mr. Trump.
17
If someone wants to come here and live, they'd better be able to pay their own way. This might be the first thing that Trump has done that makes sense. There might be hope for the guy after all. Nah......
13
This whole toxic immigration issue would practically disappear if Congress passed some sort of immigration reform...( or even talked about it)
.. Annual immigration to the US has been at historically high levels for the past couple decades.. Immigration levels have not been this high since the early 1900's..
.. Its not unreasonable that some people might want to reassess our current immigration policies..
... Democrats need be realistic about the US immigration policy.. This big divisive issue can be diffused if Dems could begin to address some of the concerns people have about immigration.. ..--..But Dems tend to brush people aside as bigots & racists if those people have some concerns about immigration.. that only pushes them over to the Trump camp..
21
@mike
Thank you for an excellent post and so true.
As a liberal Democrat, I have no appreciation for our Senator Graham who has gone from what seemed like a reasonable person decades ago to some of us saying he has been inhabited by an illegal alien from a galaxy far away. Nevertheless, the Immigration bill he introduced which he pushed out of committee a couple of weeks ago, by breaking the rules, is not bad.
Democrats are not for it and only Fienstein attended the business meeting where it was to be discussed. That's why GOP broke the rules which say they need at least 2 minority votes to move it out of committee.
Graham's bill would add 500 judges, would add immigration offices in countries and require asylum seekers to apply from their countries or in Mexico, would extend time kids could be held with their families from 20 to 100 days and would return unaccompanied minors to their home countries as is presently done now with minors from Canada. That sounds pretty reasonable to me but Dems are not on board.
I am very upset that Dems would not meet with GOP to try to work out something but they're apparently, like Trump, holding hands with their extremists on the left.
As much as I dislike what is happening, I will not let a single issue decide my vote. I keep hoping the Dems will see the light!
2
How about a barber job? 45th's granddaddy was a German barber when he crossed Atlantic in 1885. Being a barber was a highly skilled and sought after job during that time?
4
OK, for all of you who keeps saying you aren't against LEGAL immigration, let me ask you this:
Why should LEGAL immigrants (especially when they are planning on becoming citizens), not get the same rights to the same services that needy American citizens are entitled to?
11
@Bryan What about the legal immigrants who sponsor their elderly and infirm parents who promptly assign any financial assets over to their children as soon as they arrive in the US and then apply for and receive SSI and Medicaid benefits? They receive these and other benefits without having paid a dime in taxes. This is a long standing practice in the Asian immigrant communities. I know because my parents emigrated at a time when immigrants could not apply for and receive any government benefits while here on a green card. The both worked 2 jobs to support their family and they are bitter about the waves of immigrants who came from their country after them, but can not only access benefits for themselves but also for their sponsored parents.
3
Rather end govt subsidies for things like the Trump Golf course in the. Nothing good has come out of that waste of taxpayer money.
5
Kiss all your home health aides and nursing home assistants goodbye! We US citizens will get what we deserve on this -- more expensive nursing homes, etc. -- and they who used to do that work will suffer unnecessarily.
11
Such a pro life policy? NOT! This is arbitrary, spiteful, and another form of Trump terrorism and racism. Hopefully many suits will be filed arguing against implementing any form of these rules on humanitarian and constitutional grounds.
6
Then we should also kick out US citizens who can't support themselves. Might as well add to that people who don't vote republican too.
Oh, wait, that'd be monstrous.
11
Plenty of Trump supporters would fall into that category
A solution to all of this would be to abolish the tax system and pay everything as sales tax. If you consume more, you pay more. legal, illegal, citizen who ever. Put extra taxes on luxury goods like say a Maserati. It would get rid of this misinformation that legal immigrants don't work or pay taxes. A legal immigrant who pays taxes but makes under 64,000$ (family of 4) would not eligible for a greencard. In that case I would not want to pay taxes. What do we like to say....No taxation without representation or something of that sort?
2
Why does everyone think this is new news? Public charge policy has been around for decades. Only difference now is that for immigrants, their financial means is being looked at me closely. AFAIK, the original public charge rule states that if you are a green card holder and use pubic benefits in the first 5 years, the government is still able to deport you.
6
I hate the Trump admin, but this is not the "tragedy" that the NYTimes is painting it to be. For example, this kind of vetting is perfectly normal in Japan. You need a certain level of legally obtained income (~$800 a month) in order to obtain a visa. Why is this so horrible? Immigration is a great thing--the U.S. is founded on it--but letting in thousands of people every day who cannot support themselves and must immediately rely on public welfare programs is not a good policy for any country.
24
1. There are not thousands of immigrants allowed in daily with no means of supporting themselves. Please cite your sources. (Hint: none exist)
2. We are the USA. We represent hope and opportunity. We are not Japan.
1
This is completely backwards.
We rely upon immigration to refresh our creativity. Immigration is the lifeblood of America.
And people who are already rich aren't gonna cut it.
11
I am a U.S. citizen. I currently choose to live in Costa Rica and I have the Costa Rican equivalent of a “green card”. In order to even be allowed to apply for permanent resident status in Costa Rica...and in many other countries around the globe...proof of ability to support oneself without being a burden to this society is primary requirement. That’s a reasonable requirement, in my opinion. What’s all the fuss if that standard were now to be applied in the U.S.? Times change.
32
Because we are the USA. We represent hope and dreams. We are not Costa Rica.
6
Costa Rica is not the wealthy, powerful country that was built by immigrants and the American dream. The US is. I can’t imagine using Costa Rican policy as the gold standard for our unique democratic experience.
8
Hope, Dreams and welfare to all! Great policy!
1
I’m sorry but poor people are not the problem in this country - rich people are. My dear friend was on SNAP for a while between jobs and was getting $105 per month for groceries. Amazon is making billions in profit and not paying a dime in tax. What’s worse for the economy, someone getting a couple hundred dollars to get back on their feet, or someone evading hundreds of millions of dollars in back taxes by moving their accounts offshore?
Also, maybe the conservatives complaining about immigrants taking their jobs should come out to Colorado. We’ve had painters here working on our apartment building for a month because so few people are willing to do the job that the crews keep getting hired for other jobs by other foremen. It seems like they could really use the help.
25
I am a non-citizen legally working in the states. I pay my tax not a cent less than my American colleagues. I AM a taxpayer! Why can’t I enjoy the benefits that I paid for should I need it? Why do people view me as if I’m here to steal things?
14
@K - Keep in mind that many U.S. citizens don't actually access welfare benefits either despite paying taxes.
"They come here to work, not for welfare".
At least, that was the mantra that the pro-open-borders crowd
has been chanting for years and years.
So, what's the big objection to the new rules?
10
Can you please explain what “new rule” means. From reading this, and “The complex regulation, which is scheduled to go into effect in 60 days”, as a citizen and voter, it is hard to understand the legality of such decision or language. So the government has decided so, and that is it? Just trying to understand where the checks and balances are.
5
Honestly, the modern immigration system has always favored the wealthy. The wealthy have the money to afford to pay for their kids' tuition, pay for their rent, get an F1 visa, CPT, OPT, and H1B or green card. The poor kids? The other day my mom met two kids from Ecuador, one age 4 and one 15. They had no hope for their future back home, so they walked all the way here--no parents, no coyote to guide them, no nothing. They're illegal of course, because they didn't have the money for the legal system. And they'll never have the same chance to succeed here like the legal immigrants do. Is Trump making it worse? Of course. But don't pretend that the immigration system really ever gave people who are in need a chance.
2
I am still waiting for a Formal retraction and a full apology to me and other readers for this article. It is almost entirely a false report based on a premise that immigrants were previously allowed to be public charges.
This is a false premise with important repercussions coming from the lie. It’s time to retract and apologize.
8
My Opa came to this country from Germany in 1923. He had his wood working tools, and little else. He’d say later that he would have done anything to survive “even be a street sweeper.” Fortunately, a ship building company in New York was willing to take a chance on him, despite his limited English. He became a draftsman and worked at that trade for a career, supporting a wife, and raising my father who became a rocket scientist working on the defense of our nation.
I put the flag up every Sunday just as my Opa did. I do this in his honor, and in honor of the millions like him who have been given chances, and who built this country.
12
First let me note that my wife and I - who are white and in the 10% - were refused residency in Canada because we're too old and would doubtlessly cause the Canadian health care system to go broke. Many other countries also impose wealth, job and age restrictions on people who want to live there.
That said, none of those other countries are the kind of beacon that beckons people from all over the world to seek to come here. It takes people with real initiative and courage to give up everything and leave home for a strange land.
This rule might have some credibility if it weren't coming from the same people who want to end Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Obamacare, food stamps, and housing assistance, who want to bust unions while bailing out banks, who transfer boggling amounts of wealth from the middle and lower income classes to the already obscenely wealthy, and who allow corporations to escape taxes altogether. And it's ironic that these same people seek to avoid taxes themselves while denying immigrants the public services that they pay for with their taxes.
This administration and its lap dogs in Congress and the courts have no moral standing to be imposing such rules on immigrants who, over generations of assimilation, have made this country into the world's leading democracy, the most powerful economy, and a beacon for everyone who seeks the freedom to be all they can be, to think and speak freely, and escape the bonds of social and political restraints.
25
As a young 18 yo immigrant with no money, I worked my way through college, but was also helped with Pell grants and student loans. My father built a small manufacturing business that employed 4 people and my brother a tech company that employed 50 people. I went onto medical school and now run my own practice today. The government assistance I received helped me and by extension my family and the government investment in me paid off for the Country. With this new policy how many others like me will have there futures squashed, and by doing so how many lost opportunities will there be for the country? Contrary to our silver spooned presidents belief, its not only the wealthy that contribute to society!
30
@david You've missed the point. Your working through college is exactly what makes you not someone "on the dole." Your initiative and energy is exactly what President Trump is looking for. Your entire family is exactly right for America. Pell grants and student loans are not the same as welfare and food stamps for many years.
7
Agree - and there are plenty of deadbeats who are US citizens, many of them in Trump Country who should be scrutinized first.
My parents were immigrants - neither finished HS, but they build a business and I have an MBA from a top school. I have worked for 20 plus years in the commercial real estate industry in development and finance and know that my efforts have created labor demand for thousands of “Americans” over the years.
5
@Dutch - What do you have against poor U.S. citizens in calling them "deadbeats" Or is it just poor U.S. citizens who don't agree with you politically?
(If you have an MBA, why would you put "Americans" in quotation marks?)
I think expecting new immigrants to bring talents and abilities to help our country is okay. I am anti-Trump, but to say this is an assault on immigration is a little over the top. My great grandparents came from Ireland. They had to submit to having no health problems, a firm connection to relatives in the US for support , and the ability to contribute. Also, they had to bring some money.
An assault seems inflammatory. IMO .
19
I got a green card through the lottery visa program in the 90’s. A ton of papers including a police report covering my whole life and also I needed to show $20,000 income in letter from my New York employer to be approved. The Programme is called diversity program. It’s super popular every reader should be aware this is in place. I didn’t mind it and it was entirely worth the effort. I’m a liberal but recommend this program.
5
I think ability to support yourself is an important, necesary part of immigration. It is standard across the world to show this. At least in Canada, Ecuador and I assume much others.
13
Wait, now we will only take "wealthy" immigrants?
Let's back up for a quick American History 101 quiz:
Q: Why is America the greatest country is the world?
A: One reason is that many of its people are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants who left their homelands because for whatever reason things were terrible there (e.g., Irish potato famine), and they had the guts to leave their families forever and forge a new life in an unknown land thousands of miles away. The less-adventurous stayed home--the people we got were the best.
Were they "wealthy?" Rarely, instead they were just the people willing to work like crazy to give their families a better life.
Then why is America not-so-great now? One reason is that too many of us are too far from our ancestors' immigrant experience. We've become a nation of wimps, and all we can do is whine about how fearful we are that these awful immigrants might take something we feel we're entitled to.
And this is part of the problem with having a president who grew up in luxury and attended the best schools, etc. He has no idea what this is all about. He probably also was passing notes in history class when the immigrant experience was discussed.
Bottom line: we need more immigration, not less.
9
Last I checked “willing to work like crazy” doesn’t mean standing in line to collect hand outs. Nice try though.
The only thing Trump is expanding, ultimately, is prejudice. This is the theme running through all of his policies. Scenarios of exploitation that are designed to leverage even more power and money into the hands of the few. As Gordon Gekko said in that horrifying movie years ago: "It's all about bucks, kid."
9
Let every immigrant live and eat for free at all Trump properties around the country. And move Stephen Miller and the entire Trump family into the projects, where they can take their meals in nearby soup kitchens.
7
Lots off people abusing the food stamp program. They sit home and collect the stamp rather than go out find a job to stand their own feet. Those need the real assistance from this program should get the support. Need to monitor who collect the stamp.
5
I just got my annual Social Security Administration statement. Over my work life, I have paid more than $400K to SSA. But when I was 22, I was collecting food stamps. By Trump logic, 22-year-old me wouldn't have deserved a green card. Emma Lazarus is spinning in her grave.
7
@David Marcus Lazarus is a poet. There are plenty of them.
1
If immigrants pay taxes, they are entitled for govt assistance programs. If govt don't want to support immigrants at hard times, then it should not collect taxes from them at the same rate. It is as simple as that.
8
I agree except that it will become an excuse to exclude refugees.
1
Any natural-born American who feels they are slipping behind the living standards of earlier generations of their family should be very concerned about allowing only elite immigrants to enter the US. The wealthy immigrants will care only about their social class (elites), which will exacerbate the huge income equality and living standards gap. Anyone who believes in upward social mobility is penny-wise and pound foolish to focus on “saving” current expenditures on social programs. See Vancouver, B.C., sections of London owned by Russian oligarchs, NYC and San Francisco and any developing/poor country for insight into your family’s future.
5
I had been under the impression that green card applicants (or holders) could not apply for these benefits for 10 years. This is not something that I have paid attention to or really cared about. But it seemed sensible. (I am worried that the ability of any federal agency under the Trump administration to have wide discretion would lead to racist implementation of policies. He, Miller and many of his Republican appointees are clearly racists who deserve the worst possible punishment in this life and afterward.)
My father became a US citizen after serving in the US armed forces during World War II. He sponsored several relatives who eventually became relatives. He took that responsibility seriously, and none of them needed or applied for public benefits.
5
Who else do you think would buy expensive condos?
2
I wonder how much it will cost to refashion the Statue of Liberty to have the torch under her arm and outstretched demanding payment.
9
this has no teeth. pregnant women and children will be the biggest users of the welfare system BUT it's a great start.
3
Maria, the woman from Colombia, mentions her husband is a high school teacher. As an employee of the DOE, we have coverage during the summer break. What is her need to get SNAP if she is married to an employee of the DOE with health insurance coverage year round.
13
@Maggee
I also work for the DOE. Maybe he works for another school district? Some school districts don't have summer pay like we do.
1
Who are these "hundreds of thousands of immigrants who enter the country legally every year"? Please explain.
1
Someone read what’s on the Statue of Liberty.
2
@db2 I read it. It’s a poem, not a law.
A poem. A poem that has nothing to do with US immigration policy.
1
"If you're a billionaire, come to the United States! A place where you will pay no taxes, and benefit from an entire political party working exclusively for your benefit! And, best of all, you'll be above the law! Of course, you will have no universal health care, and the care you do get will be four times more expensive then anywhere else in the world, with poorer health results. And while this might not be seem too bad, there is a very good chance you might need it when you are shot multiple times with a legally purchased military assault rifle, or you end up drinking lead laced water because we have no environmental pollution controls or regulations. Did I mention the e-coli outbreaks we have every few months? But, you will be able to purchase a 30 mpg car which you can use to drive around all of our impoverished neighborhoods, on decrepit roads and crumbling bridges! May I suggest you just stay at one of the many tax-payer supported, exclusive golf courses our President owns instead? I should mention that we do support and condone racism 100% now, so, if you're not a white anglo-saxon protestant, you might want to reconsider. Heck, tell you what, if you're a billionaire, we can just over look that, OK! See you soon!"
What smart, intelligent, rich guy wouldn't want to come and enjoy all that?
10
When reading the reactions here, one can see that the US are still the country of racism and slavery. Considering that one group of people can be treated with humanity while others can be seen as animals is embedded in the American way of thinking. This is not the European tradition at all.
This can be seen in your defense and intelligence programs ( people living outside your country are not protected by your system, all things can be done to them, this speaks volume on the mindset). This could be seen in your immigration system even before this reform (the way H1B holders are treated like modern slaves who can't even change employer or start a business freely and the impossible path to getting a green card).
And now this, the concept that people paying taxes should not be granted benefits because of their country of origin. This quite frankly is nothing else than a modern form of slavery.
Compare this to the universalism of European countries. i doubt the US would have been able to come up with the Universal Human Rights Declaration. The best we would have had is a Human Rights Act only protecting American citizens and green card holders (and in practice mainly the ones having a white skin).
Stop calling him an accident, Trump is the president America deserves. His only sin is that he shows openly what has been the American mindset since the beginning. He removed the mask for the first time since the legal ban on the first form of slavery. This mask is hypocrisy.
8
@RB My great country can’t be so bad if all the poor of the world want to come here. Wish they didn’t. Let’s send them all to London.
@RB please Europian countries have some of the worst abuses of immigrants. Look at how they allow/pay Turkey to abuse Syrian refugees. Look at the vast slums around Paris for immigrants. Europe has a horrible colonial and neocolonial past which is still reflected today. I’m tired of people claiming Europe is some sort of egalitarian utopia.
1
@Stefan Crime can be found everywhere, but the hostile immigration laws of the US can only be found in the US. Keep in mind that we are not talking about crime, we are talking about legal systems, about what is endorsed by the law.
And we are talking about the fact that Europe has a colonial past, but a humanist present, while the US was built on colonialism since its beginning, and developped itself on slavery, and was bound together by racism, and that this spirit continues to this day.
Europe is not an egalitarian utopia, it is a human rights reality. It is a humanist reality. While the US pretending to be the land of the free and the country where people can come with nothing in their pockets and succeed is finally exposed for what it really is and it always had been.
You know, if you stopped lying to people about your true values, nobody would want to immigrate to the US, and people would instead would for places Europe. But then, you would not have much legitimacy has the policeman of the world, lecturing the world and giving "sanctions" left and rights. So these times when masks are finally being removed are truly interesting times. And if you ask me, it is the beginning of the end for the US.
Does this include services like Medicaid? This would have an absolutely chilling effect on healthcare for legal immigrants in this country. This would be a public health disaster in the making.
Legal immigrants pay taxes. Sometimes working people need a social safety net. We should look out for our neighbors’ well-being. One day we may need our neighbors to look out for ours.
12
Thank you for your post. This is exactly true. I dare say every oppressive dictatorship in history first provided a common enemy (aka second class humans) and when that was dealt with, turned on its own citizenship. You open the flood gates, there is no stopping. Eventually there are plenty of purebred Americans that will be deemed 'too expensive'. There goes your food program etc. Sadistically, such a move would ultimately take care of 'the problem', no?
5
Trump's golfing trips alone have cost taxpayers almost $350 million since he was installed as president. Even at $18,369 per person per year (which is what welfare costs as of 2017), it would take twenty thousands legal immigrants using up every benefit possible just to match the cost of Trump's golf.
21
I should probably look up statistics around which of us natural born citizens are reliant on our nations’ welfare system versus those coming into our country and who need assistance. But I can bet that if we peer into the hardest, long hour, low wage jobs I.e. farming our soil under blazing hot sun, we are to find immigrants who are willing to work until their fingers crack versus Americans who whine that we’re allowing migrants to take our resources. Look into kitchens where we order take out, into the bathroom where we ALL of us go. Nary an native English speaker to be found working. And yet these same individuals who may or may not be Immigrants do not complain of hard work and low wage, instead embracing freedoms we are afforded. Yet peek into poor white neighborhoods or rural towns where many generations of poverty exist and You are likely to find at least a couple of people complaining about immigrants taking their benefits, yet these same people have not applied for or sought out jobs for several consecutive years...because why work at McDonald’s when you can collect benefits instead? Of course these are sweeping generalizations but honestly I am sickened by these policies and the face of our nation.
10
Immigrants have lower jobless rates as compared to the wider working population (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf). They pay taxes and contribute more to the GDP on a per capita basis as well (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/4-myths-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy). Immigrants pay taxes and are less likely to commit crimes. The only thing this rule does is to discriminate against those immigrants who might need to avail of governmental assistance for whatever reason. It speaks to the dark heart beating in our country these days that we can subsidize big corporations with handouts and tax breaks, but we don't want to lift a finger to help workers who are actually keeping the economy ticking.
12
Perfect! This does exactly like you stated. Picks the ones who will work and provide a benefit while not allowing those who need government assistance.
That’s the whole point.
Mr. Trump pursues cruelty to make his view of arrivals come true. By separating families, placing adults and children in cages, denying tax-paying legal immigrants services that tax-paying citizens get, he is assuming that a portion will become the criminals that he claims they are.
4
Seems like you can have broad immigration or a board social safety net, but not both. Even the USA does not have enough wealth for everyone from Latin America or Africa who wants to come here but can’t support themselves and their dependents.
20
I’m concerned that immigrants then look for their elderly relatives in the third world countries to come join them in the US. And why would they not want their parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles here as part of their family ? I would. These elderly extended immigrants will surely need much more support in social and medical services, as their days of working are over.
Just a question - is this also a guarantee US citizens are responsible for ? Mulling this over. Ideas? Thoughts?
4
Well, at least billionaires won’t be inconvenienced.
8
And all these new wealthy immigrants will move to the rust belt states, reopen all the shuttered factories, hire every unemployed or underemployed person within sight and everybody will live happily ever after. And for those unfortunate few who cannot find a job with one of these companies, I understand there are chicken plucking jobs to be had in Miss.
9
Things may be different today but when my grandparents came to this country they had $1.00 in their pocket and a dream in their hearts. They worked, saved, sent their children to school and now I'm driving a Porsche. I know many doctors and nurses and teachers whose parents cleaned toilets to send their children to school so they could have a professional career and contribute to society; and they do. Who gives Trump the insight to know what is in people's hearts and what they may contribute to this country? In fact, if we knew that Trump was a liar, cheat and bankrupt business man we would not allow him to enter the U.S.
13
It seemed your family is exactly the people the US is looking for. Hardworking and go-getting.
You didn’t mention your family immigrating, and then immediately collecting social services.
America is the land of immigrants. New arrivals aren't less worthy than more established ones.
Immigrants also pay taxes, and, statistically, are less lightly to commit crimes than the rest of the population.
This law is just more white-power hate from Stephen Miller, who has zero qualifications to be in the position of power that he currently occupies.
10
To suggest that this is a policy conjured up by Donald Trump or Steven Miller is mistaken. This is the direction our government and the corporations who sponsor our government has been heading since the end of the Vietnam war. The plaque on the Statue of Liberty was a nice refrain while we needed to populate the country. I am afraid we are in for some hard times. Donny is simply carrying forward a bigger plan for capitalism - I am sad to say.
4
According to the non- partisan national Academy of Sciences, per a study completed within the past two years (apologies I forget the exact date) each and every legal immigrant without a high school education costs, on average, $648,000 over the course of their lifetime for the “benefits” they bring to our country. And that number in no way includes the deterioration in services like public schools and hospitals which they bring about, causing untold hardship, financial and otherwise, for millions of other citizens each year. Now Perhaps, just perhaps that would be acceptable if the next generation, or generation after that, started to become net contributors to society. Unfortunately that same study found that 2 generations in, the offspring of poorly educated immigrants continue to be net economic dtrains on the nation. Assimilation does not occur for poorly educated immigrants as it once did, for a variety of reasons. Sad but true. I’m no trump supporter, but the number of people commenting against this reasonable and sane policy, one which every other developed nation in the world follows to one degree or another, is truly baffling. Particularly as I drive around Los Angeles and see the tens of thousands of homeless sleeping on our streets each night.
21
Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free....
And are you suggesting the homeless you see are somehow there due to poor legal immigrants?
Another cold heart in the despicable Trump era.
You’re repeating some poem written on a statue from a gift of France years ago?
Tell me how much Medicaid, food stamps, etc, was being paid to immigrants when the Statue of Liberty was erected? None of that existed. You either survived. Or didn’t.
It was A lot different than today.
Bring a new “tired” discussion point.
1
"The ability of immigrants to support themselves has long been a consideration in whether they were granted the right to permanently live and work in the United States. "
Somehow I don't think applies to capitalist entrepreneurs looking for venture capital funding.
2
The use of migrants in jobs was an item of interest and discussion several years ago. The agricutural community explained it quite simply - we are unable to get US citizens to do the menial tasks associated with agriculture and all of its variations. US citizens will not do these job even if they have no other income source. Migrants on the other hand will do the jobs. Trump's grass cutters on his golf courses apparently were migrants - some illegal but they did a good job. Where were the US citizens to do these jobs. Not to be found. When the picking season arrives for some of our delightful fruits there will be a shortage of pickers etc. Prices will go up and we will be annoyed at the prices and there will be shortages of the item. Sure we can bar folks from entering the country - under some strange and perhaps cruel means. But there is a cost that we will bear.
5
@paul s
An audit was done of some Trump businesses and it was discovered that there were some pretty ridiculous excuses for not hiring the US citizens instead of what turned out to be non citizens.
This should be a perfect example for all those who believe citizens will not take those jobs.
1
Trump would do well to remember the generosity bestowed on him during his numerous bankruptcies. I seem to recall he had it pretty good.
7
People are confused about paying taxes should provide. Immigrants must pay taxes just to live here and use local services, such as schools and buses. They are not automatically entitled to receive federal benefits.
There is also the moral hazard component. Open borders attracts immigrants. Open borders for benefits will attract even more. Why are we encouraging more immigrants to come and then complaining when we cannot accommodate them?
5
This is a great opportunity for those who believe in open immigration to step forward and pledge financially to support an immigrant family.
I have no doubt they would pledge their retirement and children's college funds to do so. Certainly they are willing to put their liberal beliefs on display for all to see. It would be a true litmus test in assessing if one is fully committed to a socialist liberal society or one who just gives lip service to it. It is nothing more than sponsorship. The alternative is to a knowledge that we cannot bear the cost of open immigration and need to be selective in.
21
I was born in the US and worked there for a solid 37 years, but now that I’ve retired, I read that Social Security will be fully solvent for only another 14 years. Would I prefer to see American taxpayer dollars used to shore up Social Security rather than go toward welfare for immigrants? Yes, you’d better believe it —and not just for myself, but for everyone who has paid into the system for decades.
14
Anyone with an income over 250% of the poverty line, the person unaffected by this rule, is someone who probably has little incentive to immigrate to the United States in the first place. This rule is most likely just an attempt to constrict immigration and is not based on an attempt to be fair those who are already US citizens.
4
As a member of an immigrant community I can attest that many of my compatriots who immigrated to the US have been hiding their assets to apply for social benefits, such as subsidized housing and food stamps. Many more work for cache while collecting benefits. It is a real problem which unfortunately must be addressed.
20
To me this just seems to be discrimination repackaged under the guise of protecting the access of welfare programs for U.S citizens first- but this is discrimination nonetheless.
When one's ability to access basic human needs or to access a better way of life is solely based off of how much money they have- what does that say about how we view people? Is our worth parallel to how much money we have? And why is it viewed as idealistic to point this out?
I just find it so ironic that when it comes to advocating for more funding for social programs to better support it's recipients this is deemed as naive and unrealistic- but when it comes to spending tax payer's money in other areas this is never a problem......
2
Other countries do this. If I wanted to move to Germany, where I have a son living, I would have to demonstrate that I have enough wealth so I would not become a welfare burden on the state. I don't know how fair this is, but it is not at all uncommon.
14
And it is in the US as well. Try applying for any one of the US visas without proof of employer and income. Won't work.
Democrats could begin to address the immigration debate by explaining how immigration works since many of these comments show deep ignorance about the process for applying to enter this country. And shame on the NY Times for not setting the record straight.
We do not have open borders. Except for those from a relatively small number of countries, most people have to meet visa requirements that are strenuous. Visit a US Embassy in any country in Latin America and you will see people queued up by the hundreds to get the paperwork and interviews necessary to receive even just a tourist visa. Most people from underdeveloped countries are not granted visas. This is one of the things that drives people to make their way to border crossings such as those at our southern border and who become undocumented workers even though many of these people have families ready to receive them and who can provide economic support.
Most disturbing is the vitriol aimed at those who do manual labor. A good laborer -- a carpenter, plasterer, landscaper, child care worker -- is of greater value to me than the hundreds of French and German professionals with visas who have flooded my neighborhood. The manual laborers at least provide much needed services. They do work that tangibly makes my life better.
The immigrant is this administration's version of Reagan's "welfare queen", just a smokescreen for social inequities that are perpetrated by the plutocrats running the country.
11
This is a tough one. The Trump Administration is enacting this policy for racist reasons, which could make it unconstitutional. However, the idea the US should seek or retain immigrants who won't be a burden on the taxpayers is sensible. Immigration policy should be good for America, not immigrants, and I say that as a progressive.
13
As a high school teacher, why wasn’t Maria covered under her husband’s health insurance? Also many teachers find work during the summer recess. Why didn’t Maria’s husband do this? With a baby on the way, extra funds are necessary. They claim to require public assistance to meet their nutritional needs but somehow have the funds to retain a lawyer. Two young, healthy adults cam do better. This is why people support cutting WIC and other nutrition programs.
12
Remember that she only has a tourist visa now, and is unable to work even though she has a degree. It seems very likely that this is a temporary situation for them, and that once the green card is available, she can get a job of some sort.
I actually wouldn’t have guessed that a spouse of a citizen who only has a tourist visa herself would be able to get benefits, but it makes a lot of sense since the baby will be a citizen and we don’t want it to be undernourished. Maybe the system isn’t completely crazy. :)
Unfortunately, it’s not the only time I’ve heard of a spouse having to wait a very long time for work authorization, which then means the family has to rely on a single income. Hopefully this will be addressed in any immigration reform.
1
sounds like a good policy. Immigration should be based on merit period.
12
We can argue over whether it's right, or whether it's cruel, but the fact is it in not unusual. Many developed countries require the ability to pay before immigrating. If it were easy to immigrate to places like New Zealand or Canada, I'd be gone. But alas, I'm too old and maybe too poor.
9
Many people will find this very reasonable. It is up to the Democrats to visibly and clearly see that they need to appeal to the voters who feel immigration is now a major issue. It doesn't matter if you feel it is an illusion and false issue. It is now one, nonetheless.
7
This is a political move. CIS did not bother to estimate the number of legal immigrants that would be impacted by these changes. Obviously that is intentional. Those figures are small. Most legal immigrants would refrain from using any welfare until they get their green card since these regulations are already in the books and immigrants know it. Instead they focus on hard work and in developing their skills. Evidence is all around us.
Instead, the Trump administration is interested in stirring the pot and creating a negative image of immigrants as free riders whose only purpose is receiving “unearned” benefits. That serves their purpose of demonizing anything foreign and enraging supporters and detractors alike.
The comments on this article are proof of their success: driving the conversation away from facts and into division and polarization.
7
I am living deeply in the legal and illegal (mainly Asian) immigrant societies. with the exception of a few bad apples, they all are willing to work, extra hard. they often rely on each other as safety nets, and me and my wife have more than once given shelter to some who fell in hard times. in the end they all seem to make it.
I would like to know how much public assistant to legal immigrant applicants costs. maybe compare it with that of all public assistance. and compare it with the budget of ICE or the personal detail if it president going golfing every weekend.
I am not saying that immigrants should get preferential treatment over Americans fire public assistance. but perhaps we could increase it social safety net system and become a more humane country. and perhaps we can require corporations to pay living wages so that after two jobs there is not month left over after the end of the money.
2
Nothing new here. I came to the US in 1965 - on a lark, wanting to work in the US for a year before going back home to N. Ireland. I needed some cash (I had $400, more than enough back then); otherwise I would have needed a sponsor to guarantee they would support me if necessary. It was taken for granted that any immigrant had to show some form of financial support.
In those days, educated foreigners did not have to worry about finding a job promptly. I had supreme confidence that my university degree would place me in high demand (which it did). And the quota from the British Isles was basically unlimited. Laws have changed. But the requirement to show financial means of support was there.
Thank you - Noreen Parker (Mrs. Peter Parker)
8
The sad reality is that America has never followed the declaration on the Statue of Liberty. ethnic and racial quotas have been a part of US immigration policy for generations. Money has and continues to open doors in a country that crows democratic principles on cue but practices hard-nosed capitalism at the behest of its corporate oligarchs. However, if the natives had put similar qualifiers as the Trump administration is advocating on the Pilgrims arriving at Plymouth Rock, those poor, undocumented Pilgrims would have been sent packing.
3
The comments makes me see how out of touch the NYTimes readers are with the rest of the country. I am heartened by their heart, but don’t they see Trump’s plan is very reasonable? Who wants to choose the poor immigrants to support when you can choose self-sufficient immigrants? Realistically this will win him voters.
12
Although I am no fan of trump, this policy is like every other desirable country. They want to make sure immigrants are not a drain on there Treasury.
12
I sponsored my mother for IOmgiration a few years ago. She has not come here yet, and will likely not.
Yet, the all the formjs to be filled make it quite clear that
the US Govt wishes any new Immigrant ot be self suffiicient.
That is an old rule.
Any person who sponsors another person (immediate relative or other relative) has to show the resources to support that person. This was made celar to me when I was sponsoring her.
Its not clear why the hue and cry now. It seems the new
rules are simply implementing what is already on the books.
12
Good policy. If Clinton had proposed it, it would have been universally applauded.
17
The plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty reads:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, ...”
The Donald Trump /Stephen Miller motto reads:
"Give me your healthy, your wealthy, your elite few yearning to invest, the top 1%, a cut above the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, ...”
19
@Miksis
Yes, exactly, and by the way, those commentators who invariably say, well, that's a nice sentiment written on the base of the Statue of Liberty, but it's just not practical anymore, should be in the same breadth calling for the statue to be torn down. Either you believe in it, or you don't. I believe in it.
3
There are those who argue to change portions of the constitution to remove things they don’t like. It’s no different from this. Immigration was a different game when there was no dole and we needed people.
3
This policy is despicable; part of the racist agenda this administration is bent on enacting. Yes, better take that plaque off the Statue of Liberty. Let's not pretend anymore; we're a dystopian vision of the United States of America.
11
So much for, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." Trump and his cohorts are truly un-American.
3
I think our leader forgets that his parents were immigrants. His wife's parents are immigrants as is his wife and one of his other wives. It is odd that all of a sudden he is turning on these people. He simply goes from one stupid idea to another. I shudder to think what he will come up with next.
9
Jr., Ivanka and Eric were born prior to their Mom Ivana became a USA citizen. Another example of “do as I say not as I do.” Meanwhile Trump Inc, under the direction of Jr. and Eric, are continuing to employ “illegal aliens.”
11
The funny thing is most of Trump's supporters would probably be too poor to qualify for Green Cards if they were applying for such.
Likewise most Trump supporters would not be able to pass the citizenship test were they asked to take it.
The ignorance of President Trump is second only to the ignorance of his supporters.
26
The American citizenry is under no obligation to offer up our country as a pressure release valve for the world’s overpopulated Billions. Our government’s obligation is to serve the best interests of the American citizenry. Period!...And that doesn’t include foreign nationals residing here unable to support themselves. We have OUR OWN poor huddled masses, our elderly, our veterans, ourselves and our own children to provide for...
So tired of the endless histrionics and politically-motivated obstructionism in support of non-citizens by open-border ‘progressives’. Consequently, we’ll be voting Republican for the first time in our lives. Good job, Dems!
43
Am I correct? Did the entire story NOT mention that the Clinton administration were the ones that originally created this? No one has ever enforced it, until now.
32
If you need a social security number to fill out a tax return, how do undocumented immigrants pay state or federal income taxes? Sales tax at the discount store register, yes, but income tax?
So, further explain to me how services (like highways and police protection) can be provided to those who are sending money out of the country and not paying taxes, and somehow that is not a drain on a country’s taxpayers?
27
@Conservative Democrat,
The issue at hand is the rule that is being pushed for LEGAL immigrants who do pay taxes.
2
@conservative Democrat: You can pay about $25 for a social security number on the streets of New York. You give this to your employer and you file federal and state taxes using that number. If you stay in that undocumented status for years and years, you cannot get Social Security benefits at age 62 and your contributions are used to pay the present benefits of the elderly today. This article is not speaking about undocumented immigrants, only legal immigrants.
2
@Conservative Democrat one can be undocumented but have a tax ID number (it is not illegal). 70-80% undocumented immigrants pay taxes because that may help them become documented if given the opportunity.
1
They come & qualify for tax breaks?
7
@JO
If they file a tax return, they will likely not pay any federal income tax (about 50% of Americans don't) and receive a refund on the unused portion of the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Care Credit.
10
@AACNY
You are correct. Quite often they are using fake ssn's or a legitimate ssn of another person who allows the worker to use their number for a share of earnings.
That's why e verify is good only to a point.
2
Regarding your headlines that use the terms "Wealth Rule" and "Favors Wealthier Immigrants": is this the best way to describe a policy of screening out immigrants who will rely on government support for subsistence? There are a lot of potential immigrants not necessarily wealthy but who would not need food stamps and subsidized housing, for instance. You're leaving them out of your reporting.
27
When we are going to establish first concentration camps?
hold on
We did already ……
This looks more and more 1935 Germany...….
9
Except that you need to be financially independent and speak Germany to permanently settle-move there today, same for France and other European countries. We are just keeping up with the Jones‘s.
6
Why limit these rules to people trying to immigrate? There are many more citizens availing themselves of the social safety net. Why not revoke citizenship and deport those who have been on disability for more than 5 years? Just a modest proposal!
12
@Bocephus don’t give Trump and Miller any ideas....
1
This policy makes sense. And is long overdue.
46
@RHE
It really make sense a guy who never paid taxes and exploited illegal immigrants , truly makes sense.
1
The thing that really stands out to me in this article is the fact that Maria and her US citizen husband rely on government assistance because he doesn't earn enough as a high school teacher to provide adequate nutrition for their developing child. This is a travesty. We don't pay teachers enough.
30
Maybe they don't manage their finances well.
6
Honestly, I don’t why people become pregnant (or get someone pregnant) when they can’t afford to support a pregnancy or baby. This goes for everyone, whether it’s a green card applicant who happens to be professional but does not have an Employment Authorization Document, a 17-year-old high school student on his or her second baby, or a young couple who don’t have stable jobs yet. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with waiting a few years until you are financially stable, and the reality is that many (if not most) families require two incomes to maintain a middle class lifestyle.
4
Some people look at solution, like bandaids. Immigrants in desperate need of shelter from native countries gone crazy. So who pays and does Open Borders solve the problem.
The big talkers want someone else to pay for their compassion. Taxes are already high but the roughly 2 million per year of immigrants collectively need BILLIONS in public services: housing, school, police, social services, education, medical care training... years before they are ready to contribute by earning enough to pay taxes. You can be sure many people on minimum wages pay little in taxes compared to the social costs.
But the real issue is that for the million or so legal and non legal immigrants, there are hundreds of millions being left behind in misery. We need to help people in their own countries with family planning, education, women's rights, medical care, ecology learning. They need to change their own culture and stop producing millions of desperate, poor, hungry, sick, and uneducated people. We can't save all of them. We should not turn our back on them. We should not reward those who escape to the social benefits that the 50 million plus already here below the poverty need and we don't provide. Family first. Take care of the Earth. help your neighbors, but don't sink our boat trying to save the world.
16
Why would a wealthy person want to leave their country to come to the United States? Who are these people (Trump & Co.) kidding?
Trump and his minions may want to have the people from the Nordic countries immigrate to the US but they forget that the standard of living and the safety in these countries are higher than ours so there is no incentive for them to leave their countries.
13
@George M. Plenty of not wealthy immigrants migrating to the US that don't need public assistance.
4
@George M. The misleading headline and coverage by the Times not withstanding - this rule is not favoring "wealthy" people. It merely asks that people not be using social programs, i.e., they can support themselves. That's a far cry from "wealthy". And a perfectly reasonable requirement of a would be immigrant, as evidenced by the fact that every country I know of imposes the same requirement.
8
@Michael
You forget to acknowledge the fact that most immigrants (the vast majority of them) do not flock to the welfare offices as Trump and his cohorts falsely claim.
It is time that those born in this country stop making the immigrants look like moochers.
I guess this makes a bit more apparent that the Trump immigration crackdown isn't just a matter of upholding the "rule of law" against illegal immigrants, but trying to reduce the number of legal immigrants, too. Unless they're well off and, most likely, white.
3
My grandparents immigrated from Ireland and Italy. They were laborers. When we needed labor we imported labor because we needed labor. We don't need rich investors. As Tom Friedman says, we need a "Wall" with a big gate.
I agree, we should not provide aid to non-citizens who are not working; we need a path to make them citizens; i.e. jobs where they pay taxes; if you pay taxes you should be able to get some benefits.
There are some, regardless of citizen status, who cannot work or who are not a dependent of a working immigrant.
2
“Poor immigrants will be denied permanent legal status, also known as a green card, if they are deemed likely to use government benefit programs such as food stamps and subsidized housing. Wealthier immigrants, who are designated as less likely to require public assistance, will be able to obtain a green card.’
This sounds like common sense. Who can reasonably disagree with this measure?
55
Maybe the farmers that need their crops picked? Or the care home that Emily's mostly immigrant labour.
Just a couple of jobs that come to mind immediately.
@DB
Because you are putting everybody in the same basket.
There are green card holder in first year needs this help, that is problematic.
There is green card holder 20 years here,
They will be the same, What if a person doesn't want to go citizenship but stays in green Card .
They shouldn't fall from the grace...…..that's all
Very sound and responsible policy. Finally the taxpayer is being considered.
If they can pull their own weight and contribute to our country, I want as many new LEGAL immigrants as we can possibly handle.
If they are going to be a burden on our taxpayers, the government has a moral obligation to existing citizens and legal immigrants who pay taxes and do not live off of government largess to exclude them from our country.
This is very basic and non-controversial.
55
@LarryGr,
Then vote for a livable minimum wage so that no working legal immigrant needs to be on food stamps. Vote for affordable healthcare so that one visit to the hospital doesn't bankrupt a legal working immigrant. Legal immigrants work and work hard for the money they earn. They are not idling around collecting subsidies like some rich ranchers (or golf-course owners like the current WH occupant)
It really amazes me that every single day, Trump manages to do yet another thing that lowers him even beyond the depths he’s already reached as a human being.
My only hope is that, because immigrants are good for the economy, his policies will drag the economy down in time for the election, thus ensuring that he’s a one-term president.
9
Apparently, this set of criteria has been around for some time now. But like most everything regarding immigration rules and law, it was ignored or not enforced. It's about time.
45
The "Wealthier Immigrants" in this headline is a ruse. They don't need "wealth", they simply need to be able to come here without needing public assistance.
I support this policy.
Remember the Disney scandal (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html) where foreign workers were given H-1B visas to replace American workers, at 50-75% of the Americans salary? And, Disney wasn't the only one. At those salaries, most of them probably would have been eligible for public assistance.
Hopefully, this policy will put up a roadblock to that behavior, and force Disney et. al, to pay H-1B visa-holders a high enough wage to exclude them from public assistance eligibility.
Hopefully, Disney et. al. will do the math and conclude that it's not worth replacing the American workers.
And you wonder why so many workers voted for Trump?
25
H1b visa holders are not eligible for public assistance programs like Unemployment benefits, SNAP or Medicaid.
i am not sure what public assistance programs you are referring to.
@Rich,
Yes I do wonder. Especially since the American worker has been left holding the bag for the Trump millionaire's tax break. But many workers are still fighting for 15$/hour.
@Rich
What Disney got from that, Millions of Dollars Trump Tax cut.
I'm very glad to see that refugees and asylum seekers, who are both the most likely to require these social services and the most deserving, are exempt - as they absolutely should be. Obviously the humane course of action would have been to apply these new rules only to those entering the country *after* their implementation... but since Trump has proven time and time again that he is not even concerned with giving the appearance of decency, his total lack of concern for those already in America who will be harmed by this decision should come as a surprise to no one. Trump made it clear from the get-go that he sees immigration from poor and underdeveloped nations as the #1 threat to America. It's what his supporters voted for. Sigh.
2
Immigration was & is a complex problem, which needs a very sympathetic & realistic approach for any solution. President Trump has approached as a inhuman problem. For controlling this problem from South America, We should work with those countries so that they can manage their population in a stable way.
3
A large number of those legal immigrants will start declaring more of their income...
I believe immigrants are hard worker and motivated.
3
So far the question goes begging as to what kind "wealth" we're talking about here. Will this be the kind of wealth that our President brags about, with no semblance of proof, other than his notoriety for grifting, stiffing creditors and juicing his cash flow with Other People's Money? (Hey, that's gotta be worth something - look where it got him.) Or will it be documented wealth, the kind verified by, you know, TAX RETURNS?
7
This bogus policy is a scare tactic to promote fear among lower income citizens in particular, fear that they have been and still could be competing with immigrants for federal benefits. Actually, when Congress passed the 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA), aka welfare reform, which restricted eligibility by prohibiting most immigrants who entered the US on or after August 22, 1996 from receiving the federal benefits of Medicaid, CHIP, TANF, SNAP and SSI.
So this so-called new policy is just riding on the back of something that is already on the books, but it serves Trump because it helps create civil unrest and fear. What a guy.
9
But the law has not been enforced.
2
The land of if you already have opportunity.
9
@Michael Realistically, when your ancestors immigrated here no one gave a toss if they starved to death in a covered wagon half way across the Great Plains. It does not make sense to compare those "every man for himself" times with these time of social nets.
10
@Michael How do you think you would be treated if you immigrated to another country? Do you think they wouldn't care about your health and financial status? Do you think they wouldn't care about what you could offer to their country?
9
Most European countries do and have strict requirements about who immigrate to insure they won’t be on the dole.
3
I agree with this measure.
No country should look after another when she can’t even take care of her own citizens. This is something about America that I can never understand.
45
@Alyssa
It is called "common decency"; look it up!
1
@Fran
My dear, it's called realistic.
2
@Blanche White
If the United States choses to become "realistic", that is fine, but then it should stop pretending that it is morally superior to the rest of the world. We can't have it both way: pretend to be some sort of shining city on the hill and behave like any other "ordinary" country.
There is such a thing as the state-space for the current economy. While there might be some logical reasons to withhold safety nets to new immigrants, there are consequences:
1) There will be a reduction in immigration as those without economic means will be more likely to stay in their country; if you have sufficient income why would you choose to immigrate.
2) Lower immigration and increased out-migration will require replacement workers at higher wages than currently.
3) High wages will lead to increased costs of production and increased inflation, which we will all pay for.
4) instability will increase in those countries with large numbers of folks who migrate to the USA. Being most come from nearby countries (Mexico, Central and South America) unstable domestic events there will lead to less security here.
Whether your view is that this policy has benefits, you must realize it also has costs. Wait and see.
2
Don’t the Democrats want higher wages for everyone? They may, but they also want guarantee wages won’t rise by letting as many people as possible in.
1
This may be apples and oranges, but many years ago I had a grand plan to move to Canada from California and start a business. However, I was denied Canada's version of a green card. My skills were already well represented in Canada, and I didn't have a lot of money. Unless I had a Canadian sponsor who could guarantee that I wouldn't become a burden, I wasn't allowed in. Canada welcomes immigrants, but on their terms. I feel that we in the US should have similar policies.
60
@SLO Paul
The Canadian system has some points based criteria which can be used to match the needs of our country with the skills and attributes of the immigrant applicant.
Refugee claims are somewhat different obviously-because the applicant is fleeing a dangerous situation.
But there is also controversy here about refugee claims. I believe around 50% of refugee claims are rejected by our legal process.
And also some controversy about very rich visa and immigration applicants who want to get their money out of non western countries. They’ve bought up a lot of real estate here and there’s debate about its effect on home prices and rising homelessness.
Our problems don’t compare to the vast numbers on the US southern border, but Canadians haven’t solved all these issues either.
7
There are years-long waiting lists for subsidized housing (section 8) in my state and others. Insofar as how much immigration, if any, we allow --- because we do not HAVE TO allow any immigrants --- it seems very clear to me that we should not be bringing in people who are going to weigh the system down with their dependency.
That said, I don't see anything in this policy that would deny help to those who've already been accepted as immigrants to the nation, and have become citizens. Unless I'm mistaken this policy seems to be a needed adjustment to the method of screening applicants for admission to the US. Once someone becomes a citizen, they should have just as much right as anyone else to receive help if needed. But we dont' want to admit those who from the get-go appear to be people who do not have sufficient skills or education to make it in this country, and thus who are likely to become dependent on handouts.
13
It seems like the trump-Miller doctrine is to make legal immigrants illegal.
15
Trump’s “aggressive wealth test” for legal immigrants wising to attain permanent legal status: Prove that you can afford a membership in Mar-a-Lago. You will be required to submit the last 5 years of your complete federal income tax records, including all schedules and supporting financial records.
11
What did his 2 immigrant wives have in the way of skills and money?
46
@Ed
They had the skills that bring in money.
3
@Fran So, please inform us as to what skills immigrant wife number three has? Advanced degrees in say, law, engineering, medicine?
If no is the answer then she has a lack of skills that would preclude her citizenship under these proposed rules.
3
@Ed
Only that they didn't need public assistance.
1
I remember all the claims by pro illegal immigrant groups that immigrants rarely ever use social services. We were told it was all a myth.
Now we are told millions will be affected and the sob stories are coming out about how desperately they need these benefits. Once again Trump exposes a talking point lie. I will say again that he is a necessary evil.
59
Do you realize that many snap recipients work full time jobs, but minimum wage is absurdly low, that employees need help beyond their paychecks. A better use of your complaint would be to fight to raise minimum wage
6
I agree with this.
Economic migrants should be just that.
If you are here on the basis of benefiting our economy, then you should actually benefit our economy.
What other standard should we hold you to?
17
These are LEGAL immigrants!! So they’ve played by all the rules and could still be denied permanent residence because for a brief amount of time they relied on the government that they pay into mind you! For assistance! Just say you don’t like immigrants cuz it doesn’t seem to matter whether they’re documented or undocumented, you just don’t want them in “your” country.
1
Words can not express how much I detest Trump but this IS what the vast majority of countries do. When I've worked in foreign countries they've checked every detail of my life. If my work permit included use of their medical system they x-rayed me, etc. to make sure their citizens wouldn't have to pay for me.
51
@Siara Delyn
Aren't the United States said to be better than the rest of the world? At least that is what many (if not most) Americans like to believe and keep saying.
I totally agree with the new tougher laws. We are a sovereign nation we have reached a saturated population level. We are under no obligation to take in more people especially when their highest education is elementary school. The future belongs to the super smart, the super educated and the most creative. Our immigration laws are not supposed to be based on a poem. We don't need cheap labor, We need smart labor. America has become a dumping ground for surplus populations from countries that are happy to get rid of them. The only thing i like about multiculturalism is the food. The rest is a drag down.
62
@JG. Exactly right.
14
@JG Sorry, but I have to disagree. If you have many educated people in your country, you might need immigrants that perform simpler jobs like picking fruit or cleaning houses. It all depends on the job market.
3
@JG
"The only thing i like about multiculturalism is the food."
I'm speechless.
3
Actually this is just reinforcing original rules and regulations that had been in place for years. They were changed by the Clinton administration to allow immigrants to receive non monetary benefits and not have them fear the public charge rule.
A change back is long overdue. We don't need to import poverty. Hopefully it will also end the practice of immigrants using food stamps to stock their stores and their fast track to social services as soon as they arrive here.
Democrats opposing this will just help Trump get reelected.
52
@Hellen
We see the same thing happening over and over again when it comes to immigration. Trump proposes something sensible. His critics scream about his cruelty (and racism, always that). The media piles on, Then reasonable people weigh in and, it turns out, a majority of Americans actually agrees with him.
4
I would like the Times to have a discussion of the Canadian system. Canada, after all, is considered pragmatic but humane . How does Canada determine its temporary and permanent immigrants, what are their proportions and absolute numbers, what are their rights and benefits? If Canadian health care and gun control is a model, perhaps so is its immigration system.
25
@Historian I've been thinking of moving to Canada, since my children, grandchildren and loads of friends live there. Immigrating there is NOT EASY. This is a good post, Historian
15
@Historian I am a Canadian . We have very though immigration laws and rightly so. Over stayed visas if caught, You will be escorted to a plane and out. You must be fluent in English or French and could not be a burden to society. Any infraction with the law will disqualify an application. American immigration laws are just as tough. The problem is the total lack of enforcement. It is almost lawless. It is coming dawn to us or them them being the illegal aliens. As a US citizen I feel Left out. I have made major contributions to the well being of some of my fellow citizens. We have been invaded by far too many illegal alien . I don't feel secure . And I don't feel peaceful inside. Some thing I never felt before.
6
This is perhaps the most telling--and chilling--line in the whole article:
"How many people the rule will affect is in dispute. Citizenship and Immigration Services did not conduct an “in-depth” analysis to estimate that, according to a senior administration official, who asked for anonymity to brief reporters on the rule."
Think about that for a second. A United States federal agency just adopted a new regulation WITHOUT actually investigating the potential impact, researching the possible consequences, or otherwise parsing what the actual outcome would look like. They just rolled the dice, kicked some people in the gut, and let the chips fall where they may. Good Lord, in what other context would this "shoot from the hip, devil may care" approach to governing ever be acceptable? Imagine if we deployed our military in this way!
Oh, wait...we don't have to.
13
@Anonymous Bosch
“WITHOUT actually investigating the potential impact, researching the possible consequences, or otherwise parsing what the actual outcome would look like.”
Sounds a lot like Obamacare.
10
Yeah, really. Shoot from the hip, but really, they do have the actual target in mind. And that has been all too clear these past weeks, months. Well, two years.
@Midwest Josh,
Millions thank Obamacare and many in KY wish they had medicaid expansion. Its was rolled out poorly but in the end it did do a good job. Would have been even better but for GOP states hacking off its support systems.
@YHB318 I applaud and admire your Herculean efforts.
At the same time, I ask (sheepishly) - why on Earth would you and your wife become pregnant twice in such a precarious financial situation??
20
@SM
Why? Could be the Vatican's roulette.
1
Our president is delivering on his promises.
Best president in 50 years.
He is giving America hope again.
Hallelujah.
29
@JRS Best president if one prefers racism, white nationalism, bigotry, hate.
22
Well you’re right in one aspect and wrong in another.
DT may be giving folks like you hope.
But it’s not to America because what DT is doing is unAmerican and ultimately leading to the destruction of this country.
15
What kind of hope is this disastrous presidency giving you? In the lawless rule of the powerful over the powerless? Where the state is acting on the capricious whims of a president* who endangers anyone he doesn’t agree with?
If so, that’s an awfully low standard to hope upon.
14
When the US truly welcomed the poor (eg my ancestors) with open arms, it had no social safety net, no public programs to help the indigent. Nations can either have open borders or extensive social welfare systems, but not both without going bankrupt.
53
When was this? When the pilgrims stole these lands from its Indigenous Peoples? Or when the entire country was fully running on the labor of Enslaved Peoples? When pray was this time when there were no “safety nets” for the indigent? Just say you don’t like immigrants (any more) now that your family has ascended to privilege, the proverbial door is “closed”. The callous cruelty is the point of all these rule changes. Just say your in favor of cruelty.
1
Trump favors the rich ?
How surprising !
10
Well, he favors the rich who, like himself, get rich off the backs of the really not so rich, and taxpayers (again not like himself). The people who have figured out who to game the system and let others (the poor immigrants) clean up and pick up. Beyond reprehensible.
1
Lifelong, liberal Democrat here: this is the first Republican policy that I actually agree with and support.
When I moved to Europe for a number of years, I had to be sponsored by my employer (which I think should be implemented here). We had to prove that no other citizen of their country could do the job for which I was planning to immigrate but I also had to prove that I would not be a financial burden on their government services.
Uncontrolled economic immigration of uneducated, unskilled people into the US, who will only be exploited for cheaper and cheaper labor, IMO, has become out of control. I don't need Trump to tell me that - I see it every day. We need to concentrate our resources on our own citizens first.
I'm fine with this policy.
79
This is also true in the US. To hire someone who does not already have green card status, we must sponsor them and demonstrate that we cannot find a US citizen to do the job.
15
@Sydney There are circumstances in which a foreign person needs sponsorship to be employed in this country. One industry that comes to mind is agriculture.
3
My experience in Japan has been the same. And I need to prove my legality anytime I do anything of significance, like get a driver’s license or buy a home.
14
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”
Scratch That!
14
First thing our PRES should do is to fly to Liberty Island and pull down the Statue of Liberty for violating the ‘truth in advertising act.’ It will ensure that no poor and downtrodden refugee will ever dream about asking for refuge in America. Furthermore, with NYC losing millions of tourist, DT would also help GOP in bringing down a BLUE state’s economy to its knees; a goal of GOP, hinted by their limiting the ‘State and Local Taxes’ deduction passed in the last big tax cut signed by Him last year. This limit will also ensure that many Blue Donor States become even bigger donor States, c.f., https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/.
However, GOP is very shortsighted in this effort to try to emasculate Blue States, since they are biting the Hand that feeds many more RED Taker States than BLUE taker States.
5
@Pete Poems are not laws.
13
@Pete Maybe "yearning to buy a condo at a Trump golf club!"
4
The earliest immigrants to North America on the east coast relied on public assistance courtesy of the people of the First Nations.
Then our government herded those same peoples to lands that could not sustain them and many starved or were on public assistance.
Our country has a sad and sordid history when it comes to people and their needs.
And many commenters fail to see the irony.
10
Are you aware that the latest archeological evidence says your First Nations weren’t really first?
8
@Longtime Japan If I had used "Native Americans" then the scree would be there is no such thing as Native Americans.
So, in keeping with DNA evidence that many migrated here from Asia long before the first Europeans they are indeed first nations.
@Dan Sad and sordid it was; but that was then and this is now.
1
Trump, a third generation immigrant has his Daddy's wealth to be thankful for. His Dad, Fred was a second generation who made good in real estate but wouldn't house "colored people." Fred's Dad, likely arrived here with nothing.
Trump is a bigot extraordinaire. What did Melania arrive in the country with that had merit? He wants people from Norway and Sweden to arrive. I am sure there are some people in both of these countries who are struggling financially. In this country presently, there are more white people on Medicaid and SNAP. The housing assistance was provided to them after WWII when it was denied to others who fought in the same war but were Black.
Each day Trump brings more shame on himself and this nation. He should be a lesson to everyone that having money/wealth doesn't mean that you have values or that you are any better an American as any one else.
14
“rely on public programs...” And what exactly are the very special tax cuts , and policies for selected groups, available to those who have the actual money, and other resources, which they and their hired professionals exploit?
What are the extra expenses, public tax-based, for his security, used by President Trump, as his daily words and actions serve to destroy national security, who chooses to be away from the White House more than any other President?
How many people, traumatized by the implications and outcomes of what Trump’s empowering an enabled WE-THEY violating culture, will be using public mental health facilities?
Perhaps there is a need to create a Federal public “re-education program” for helping the innumerable personally unaccountable policymakers makers, elected and selected, at all levels, to decrease current racism. Dehumanization. Exclusion. Marginalization. None of which have been “commodified” so private investments are not too likely!
6
I don’t find anything wrong with this policy. What’s the point in granting green cards to those, who simply can’t afford to manage their families financially ?
Gone are those dream destination days for poor families in America. The sooner immigrants understand it, the better.
43
Which “dream destination” jobs are you referring to? The ones that the majority of the citizenry would not even consider taking? Are they the ones where you break your back for twelve hours a day picking berries in the blazing sun and surrounded by toxic fertilizers and pesticides? Or the ones where you spend half a day standing on your feet on a concrete floor killing and gutting livestock? Or are they the jobs where you clean the houses of the wealthy and take care of the children, only to be greeted with their learned helplessness when things go awry?
Another way to look at those jobs is that people would do them if they paid a decent wage. They never will though as long as we keep letting people enter the country who will work for minimum wage.
The ICE raids targeting hundreds of undocumented immigrants in a Mississippi chicken processing plant, taken together with Trump favoring “wealthier” legal immigrants who will not work at such jobs, clearly spells an employment boon for Americans looking for work!
To those rural Trump supporters in the Midwest and elsewhere who are out of work and blame the “illegals” for “stealing American jobs,” it’s time to pack up and head down south for the job opportunities that Trump has created for you in the chicken slaughterhouse sector!
18
@Dan88 These chicken processing plants used to employ American citizens until they destroyed the unions which I think you know, Dan. Then they hired illegals for sub-standard wages.
10
@Olivia You can thank Trump's Supreme Court picks for trying to destroy unions. So, now who does he think is going to take those jobns? There is only one answer: put Trump and his Cabinet in prison and throw away the keys.
1
@Sam Katz This has nothing to do with Trump. This happened decades before Trump became president.
1
“Give me your well-rested, your wealthy, your not-so-huddled masses...”
7
So why is he hiring illegals to work at his golf courses and hotels. I know they aren't high paid works. Why is the chicken factory owner not behind bars? If every illegal is breaking the law once, every factory owner is breaking it 100x, once for every illegal hire. They want a cheap, docile labour force, that they can hire and fire and bully and threaten.
They wave the flag and talk about illegals but millionaires are the ones doing the hiring. As long as working-class white America has someone to blame that doesn't look like them they go along with it. We're a nation that likes to kick downward.
16
I am not in the know about what goes on at his country club, but there is the chance the workers gamed e-verify with false documents, which is not difficult according to an immigration attorney who was on CNN a few days ago. Another possibility is part of the workforce is working for another company who has a contract to perform work at the country club. This is a common workaround in the construction industry that allows the main company to have them working at no risk to themselves.
We apparently throw away over 200 billion dollars worth of food annually. IMO NO ONE in the UISA (legally or otherwise) should be hungry.
I used to glean left over excellent bagels from the bagel shop up the street -- they threw out maybe 50-100 at a time?? but then they started mixing in paper garbage.... One tiny bagel shop!!
Frankly, if plastic bags are going to be illegal throwing out good food often better than the stuff passing as school lunches and breakfasts should also be illegal to toss our.
1
If only any of us had a choice of which country we are born in. If only we all spoke perfect English, so could get a good job with a livable salary that didn't require us to work 2+ jobs and 60+ hours a week. If only English were a simple language to learn. If only even when we did learn English, people still didn't discriminate against us because of our thick accents that we can't rid of. If only our masters and doctorate degrees from our home countries, transferred equivalently in the US so we could continue our careers, studies, and passions. If only our kids could be older quicker so they can finally live the American Dream we never got to see. If only people understood we are at the mercy of a system that was design to make us fall down before we had a chance to stand up.
But no, welcome to America where if you don't speak English and don't have a life savings built up, you can go ahead, turn around and forget you were ever a human being worth anything because we're not going to help you
7
@Rachel M. America is not a govt of handouts for those who are looking to live off of us middle class tax payers.
14
A lot of really wealthy political donor class are also living off the massive federal tax cuts, courtesy of GOP and Trump.
How sweet! A man who cannot claim even one grandparent born on this side of the Atlantic, a man whose last two wives were imported from Southeastern Europe, a man who cannot claim even one relative who ever shed a drop of sweat to build this country or a drop of blood to defend it, is tightening the rules on immigration. The fact that Trump has not been struck by lightning should be taken as proof that God either doesn't exist, or is taking a vacation on a more decent Earth, in another corner of space.
14
I support this measure.
27
@Observer
Millions of Americans do as well.
1
If your arguments about Immigration are correct at least have the decency to come up with ideas that take the economic pressure off of these desperate populations.
Fund renewable energy and use the oil money and the military might used to protect foreign oil to build just alliances that make Immigration much less necessary.
2
What should be 2 of many FAQs and the answers:
Are legal immigrants eligible for federal public benefit programs?
Only those with lawful permanent resident (LPR) status, but not until they have resided as a legal resident for five years. LPRs – sometimes referred to as green card holders – do not have full access to all public benefit programs and are subject to limitations before being eligible for federal means-tested benefits, including Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), TANF, SNAP, and SSI. Such limitations include the “five-year bar,” which requires the individual to have maintained LPR status in the U.S. for five years before being eligible for benefits. However, under some federal benefit programs, this requirement can be bypassed when the recipient has worked 40 quarters under a visa.
How much do immigrants contribute to support public benefits programs?
Both documented and undocumented immigrants pay more into public benefit programs than they take out. According to Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, undocumented immigrants contribute an estimated $11.74 billion to state and local economies each year. However, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for many of the federal or state benefits that their tax dollars help fund.
13
@NicePerson
Our president (with a small 'p'), does not seem to know this. Or care.
5
And what of those who pay no federal taxes, or do so only with the help of identity theft? What of the cost of special public school classes for their non-English speaking children? How about emergency rooms treated like doctors’ offices, since immigrants know they must receive treatment regardless of ability to pay or immigration status?
6
@Longtime Japan I work in a school. ESLclasses are less expensive than teaching kids who only speak English a foreign language because there are more who are learning non-English languages than those who are learning English. In fact, in our school kids who speak Spanish, Russian, Chinese, etc. help teachers and students learn those languages. Emergency rooms are treated like doctor's offices as much or more by Americans who don't have healthcare. People who get sick aren't sick by choice and should be treated. Just how would any kind of identity theft keep anyone from paying taxes? How does any employer not deduct taxes even from someone who might be working under that set of circumstances? That part of your comment makes no sense.
1
What’s the objection to this ruling? We don’t have enough of our own impoverished citizens on taxpayer-funded public assistance that we need to import them from other countries?
51
@Michaela Just imagine how many of our people that could be fed with the tax money Trump spends on golf outings and foreign travel that has little, if any benefit.
4
@Michaela
The objection is to Trump so anything he does receives this response.
3
@Michaela Trump imported two of his wives. One would believe that made in the USA would suffice.
Of course, this is yet another wrong-headed Trump policy. And it does hit close to home.
In August, 2016 Trump said Melania would hold a press conference to explain her immigration status.
The conference never happened.
6
Legal immigrants also come here to work. So they pay taxes too, am I missing something here? How is this even legal? If an immigrant comes to this country looking for work and gets work, they pay taxes on their income. They also pay taxes on goods they purchase in this country. Everyone on here thinks that they just get benefits for doing nothing but that is not the case. Scapegoating your problems on immigrants will change nothing. You have to look at the systematic inequalities in this country to see the true root of your economic discontent.
8
@Jessica
Most, if not the vast majority of immigrants come here to work, and they do a lot of the grunt work that Americans do not seem interested in. Trump's inference that hordes of immigrants are coming here to jump on the dole is dishonest.
6
@Jessica There is a vast difference between an ''immigrant" and an illegal alien. Immigrant is a legal term describing an individual who was vetted and has started the process of becoming a US citizen. The more accurate word would be "migrants".
yes
we need more clueless rich people since they are so special. MBS and Epstein would be two fine examples of the people we need. vietnamese refugees who came with nothing, but whose children are valedictorians, why would we let them in. a temporary downturn such as being in a war zone or drought should disqualify you and your family.
America was built on refugees and we are the top economy.
trump wants to change it for racist reasons, not for rational reasons.
6
Welfare or social services is are relatively recent expenditure; it wasn't until 1965-66 that Medicaid was a thing and lo and behold once the word got out about the free stuff in America, at around 1970-75 is when the illegal immigration started and the amnesty was started by Reagan, remember him, this caused a flood of people to enter looking for free stuff.
Thank you Donald Trump for righting this ship so at least we may have a small measure of sanity and stop with all the free stuff.
Illegal immigrants receive free education, free road, bridges, sidewalks and yes, free medical care: enough.
Maybe we can start to get a a hold of our debt so that, perhaps in another 100 years from now, if we keep the doors closed, we can leave future generations a bit of a break from our financial incompetence.
Now, about the problem of our wrecked environment...
20
"Advocacy organizations say the number of people affected by the regulation is vastly larger, estimating that 26 million immigrants living in the United States legally will reconsider their use of public benefits because they fear how accepting assistance could affect their ability to remain in the United States."
Good, 26 million fewer people on welfare is a good start.
28
@Neil Mathieson
Most of these people are working and paying taxes for these benefits. They are in low wage jobs that most Americans won't do. They are contributing to the economy and society.
3
@Retired Fed
First, low income Americans don't pay federal income taxes. If anything, they get refunds from unused credits.
Second, since when is anyone entitled to use US benefits? This is the equivalent of an "open borders" argument for benefits.
8
I emigrated to Californian when I was 17, without parents. I ended up going to the top schoo in the state. When I was in school, the slice of government assisted me with Pell grants, student grants, aid based scholarships and Loans. I am forever grateful.
However, this was not welfare, it was an investment made by USA in it's future citizen. 6 years out of college, I am still making payments on loans and paying the state of California and US Federal Taxes many times over the amount the put into my education.
Trump is wrong on this one, like is his everyday on everything. I am a living testament to his failed beliefs.
9
@John,
Sir, you DID receive welfare.
Common sense would dictate that a nation should take care of its people.
We have over 20 trillion in debt; no more welfare.
17
@JRS and he is now giving back by being a productive citizen. We must not be so shortsighted into believing that we are being ‘fleeced, and instead see these programs as long term investments in our people and country.
1
Real question: Is there a legal Impediment to simply reducing the public benefits that legal immigrants are currently entitled to? I’m not saying I support that, but isn’t that an easier and more effective way to reduce such benefits?
4
@L. Hoberman There are already many things legal immigrants cannot do: they cannot vote, even if they pay taxes like everybody else.
Be careful what you wish for.
Discouraging poorer immigrants from citizenship means that wealthier applicants will be preferred and approved.
There are many, many wealthy people around the world who would love to basically buy citizenships in the west.
We have seen the effects of foreign money in my country in cities like Vancouver and Toronto. Foreign ownership of properties has driven home prices to the stratosphere.
Not so good for average folks working average jobs. Home ownership is a pipe dream and thousands are homeless in every city.
That formula won’t wash with a lot of Americans.
Immigration is good if it serves the needs of the country. Figure out the mix- numbers, percentages, skills and capital needed from immigrants. Then seek and approve the set number of applicants that meet that need.
And adjust every few years for changing circumstances. The process should be transparent with the set immigration numbers and goals published for the public to see.
10
For years, people have insisted that immigrants don’t take advantage of social services but instead pay more than they take. This article makes it seem that isn’t true. Once everyone has health care and housing THEN we can consider extending the same offer to new immigrants but not before.
32
@Scott D,
Help anyone when we finish paying for our 20 trillion dollar debt.
We have a trillion dollar DEFICIT in the budget this year; that is just incredible.
6
Skilled, educated, self sufficient, and law abiding are good qualities in citizens and immigrants alike.
34
Our immigration policy has always favored healthy, financially-stable immigrants, and why shouldn't it?
My Mexican wife and I went through the entire immigration process. First her "fiancee" visa, then her green card, and finally her U.S. citizenship. I had to jump through hoops to prove that I was financially capable of supporting her. She had to undergo medical examinations to prove her health, and provide police records to prove that she had never committed a serious crime in her home country.
When immigrants come here illegally they avoid all of these requirements, and they ultimately suffer for it.
I can't even type this without crying, because I was so proud of her the day she received her citizenship, and recited the Pledge of Allegiance along with 3,000 other immigrants. All of whom honored us by following our laws.
42
This proposed rule has nothing to do with illegal immigration. It means that the government could have decided that if you don’t meet whatever standard they set for self sufficiency, your wife would have not gotten the green card in the first place
1
I understand why Democrats and Socialists are so upset by this new rule. Most self-sufficient immigrants who pay taxes and contribute to society vote Republican. The ones that come here with nothing and intend to draw on Food Stamps, free immigrant healthcare and other social programs tend to vote Democratic. This new rule shifts preference to the former. It’s simple.
36
One needs only to peruse the comments here (at the NYT even!) to see that Trump is on the winning side of the immigration debate.
35
@William Is it Trump on the winning side, or, that many agree that immigration reform is needed?
Trump didn't invent the need for reform as many bills, some bipartisan, have not seen the light of day, so to speak, in our lofty halls of Congress.
2
Republican statements and acts on immigration are despicable.
That said, immigration is a REAL problem. Democrats should acknowledge this. It has to be addressed, while simultaneously condemning Trump and Republicans for treating immigrants as animals. Where is decency and regard for our fellow men and women?
403
I totally agree.
11
@C But... why is it a real problem?
19
Relying on cheap, exploitable labor is a problem.
Not the laborers' problem, however. Their problems are more immediate, and have to do with food and housing and supporting their family in a safe place.
A rising tide does lift all boats, and the cost of goods and services should not be artificially low due to an exploitable serf class. If you want immogration reform, start with the employers. Expanding guest visas... With wage protection and enforcements.
33
Trump and Steven MIller should follow the spirit of these new rules.
Trump's grandfather, Friedrich Trump, emigrated to the USA from
Bavaria at age 16. Friedrich Trump was poor.
Miller's family emigrated to the USA in the early 20th century to escape anti-Jewish pogroms in Belarus. They were refugees of violence and didn't speak English.
Should their citizenship be revoked postmortem due to a lack of resources and education [upon arrival]? Should the entire Trump and Miller lines be sent back to the countries from which they escaped?
I'd be satisfied if only Donald Trump and Steven Miller would simply exercise self deportation.
13
@TomD You failed to mention the endeavor Grandpa Trump engaged in while running a business in the Pacific Northwest....I suppose he was making a living rather than on public assistance.
2
The Trump Administration is going to change it from a "Green Card" to a "Gold Card." Only the wealthy will be welcomed to the USA from now on. I'm sure the "Platinum Card" is in the works. That card would require a huge donation to Trump's favorite charity, Mar e Lago in order to be allowed to relocate to the USA.
5
Is he also going to take away citizenship from farmers who rely on government subsidies as well? Due to his own policies we should add.
8
When you can't argue against something then compare apples to oranges?
9
@Topher S There is merit in ART's comment. We cannot have legal immigrants live on the dole, so, why should the farmers, many of whom support the charlatan.
1
Cuccinelli , Miller and Conway have decided that they will live the rest of their lives in the gilded cages of Trumpism.
There will always be income from jobs with Trump think tanks - an oxymoron if there ever was one - and appearances on Fox News to offer public legitimacy.
But they, and their families , will never be spared the public shaming and indelible stain of their embrace of such cruelty .
They think they are different and can avoid the inevitable judgment of the court of public opinion no one can . Ask Kristin Nielsen , John Kelly, Alex Acosta and the many other Trump officials who have assured their ignominious place in history .
2
I've read many of the comments here and more than a few are a bit off target. I don't think the intention of the updated requirements are for citizens living here and for any reason fall on hard times. The program restrictions are very specifically set for incoming immigrants and those seeking citizenship or permanent residency though green cards
Our national debt is through the roof and growing every year. More than 1/2 of our spending already goes towards social programs (in excess of $2T/year).
Many of you think, well tax the rich. The rich already pay almost all the taxes collected. Some say look at Sweden or Denmark. I think most of you would very much not be happy when you had to pay your tax bill. These countries have a very flat tax system (like 30% of your 1st dollar). What that means is the everyone pays taxes (which to be clear does not happen here). And these countries also will not let you immigrate to them before you can show a means of livable income. But I digress.
Until we get our own house in order, I think we should limit our spending and stop taking on more debt in the way of immigrants and non-citizens.
Thanks for reading.
20
I am concerned about the cost to other countries of a "brain drain" to the US. Trump only wants "winners," but taking the better educated, most enabled deprives other countries of their best hope of improving. We should be aiding those countries in many, many ways and not helping deplete their most valuable resource.
1
Who does Trump think will do the poultry processing and other low-wage jobs that many if not most Americans do not want and will not take once he manages to get rid of lower-income immigrants? How much talent will we turn away in the former of the children of these immigrants, who would have access to better schools and, often, higher education?
This poor attempt at keeping America white will come back to bite everyone but Trump.
2
Why is everyone so upset if immigrants only come here to work hard and contribute? The wailing, moaning, and gnashing of teeth is very revealing.
14
Westy Egmont, director of the Immigrant Integration Lab at Boston College, added that California’s more generous public assistance system means more people more receive aid than they would in most states.
The data comes from the 2012 Survey of Income and Program Participation, the latest and most reliable source of welfare statistics according to George Borjas, an immigration expert at Harvard University.
When he ran the 2017 California numbers using the Current Population Survey, he found that 41 percent of immigrant households receive public assistance, whereas 24 percent of native households do. In 2012, 49.5 percent of immigrant and 25.3 percent native households received government assistance in California.
https://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2017/aug/14/david-perdue/sen-david-perdue-half-immigrant-households-benefit/
13
Trump will do everything he can to have his nefarious way with poor people of color.
1
The poor immigrants seeking to come to U.S because the rich in their homeland denied opportunities for them. Now, we want to shut the door on them because we are a rich country? These poor immigrants work hard, but they need to remember that public assistance should be the last resort after everything else fails. They are coming here to seek opportunities and that should be the case and not come here to seek public assistance. They can’t simply say we can’t find work. If they can’t, perhaps they should go home.
3
This sounds like classic NIMBYism to me, a page right out of Beverly Hills 90210. Dare not ask it’s political demographics though.
1
Some day, people - natives and immigrants and potential immigrants alike - will be viewed by what they do to help the communities in which they live and not just the dollars they bring or cost to companies and governments.
The politicization and commercialization of immigration is dehumanizing - not just to immigrants but to our society. Are we attracting teachers, policemen, firemen and other civic leaders? Or just workers of one class or another depending on the politics of the day?
I wish we would see more information about immigration from a community perspective - there is only diversity if we are actually interacting at the local levels. Instead we are self-segregating - by both race and class - and both political parties are guilty.
Lots of lies in these comments about immigrants costing us more money than they put into the system. NY Times start publishing the truth about these lies. You have obviously failed to educate your readers with facts and data.
How Much Tax Do America's Undocumented Immigrants Actually Pay? [Infographic] - Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2016/10/06/how-much-tax-do-americas-undocumented-immigrants-actually-pay-infographic/
Pervasive Myths About Immigrants
Laura Collins, Deputy Director of the Economic Growth
George W. Bush Institute
http://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/immigration/collins-immigration-myths.html
Sure looks like republicans are targeting legitimate immigrants now. Citizens are harassed by ICE already in these raids while ignoring business owners. This works as a detriment for the owners to have more power over the workers where abuse is present especially if the other hand is patting the owners on the back and looking the other way.
Do your job Times and call out lies. Educate your readers! Just reading the comments reveals a massive amount of right wing fake news.
6
@Mathias
You're also neglecting that illegal immigrants are the leading cause of identity theft which Americans hundreds of millions dollars and destroys lives of people
13
There are poor white immigrants too, e.g. Stephen Miller's grandparents, Jared Kushner's parents. I am not sure about Melania and Ivanka. The "modern welfare state" is not more expensive than tax cuts for the wealthy.
3
... This is something to be expected by Trump & his band self-centered servants... --The amount of money to subsidize & help some legal immigrants is a tiny fraction of the great wealth of this country..
... America has become a more uncaring & selfish place under Trump..And certainly any greatness we may have had, is draining away..
...--- But can the Democrats find a message & a voice that will reach people.?? -So far they have not..
1
in trump's anti-immigrant America, who will do the jobs Americans don't want to do? Eventually it will be the undereducated, underemployed better known as trump's deplorables.
3
Good, am glad.
Those of us who did it legal, hate to be over taxed to gift a free life to those who are here illegally.
21
You must not have read this article. Th rule change applies to immigrants here legally. Moreover, immigrants, legal and illegal, pay taxes. If you study non-biased data, native born Americans use SNAP and other government benefits at a far higher rate than legal or illegal immigrants. Moreover, neither Trump nor the Republican Party have suggested harsh penalties for the people who employ undocumented workers.
If that raid at Koch Foods in a small town in Mississippi resulted in the arrest of hundreds of illegal workers, it means the employer was knowingly hiring and employing these people who work hard for a better life. Indeed, several years ago that same company was raided at a Fairfield, Ohio location, resulting in the arrests of 150 illegal workers. Shouldn’t those who create the demand for these workers, especially a company like Koch Foods which repeatedly takes advantage of people desperate for a better life, be punished severely?
3
the NYT tries to spin it but it sounds right and just to me
23
There is a misconception among folks here that legal immigrants don't pay taxes. They DO pay taxes just as much as a citizen. There are countless obstacles for immigrants. For example finding a job could be very hard without having a green card andany might need assistance in that period or there are many immigrants who come here with their skills and intelligence such as grad students who frankly make very little money that is not sufficient in some cases to live in a city. Or maybe the problem is that I know countless people who have been waiting to hear back on their green card cases for many years with no updates and they are running out of their financial resources. There are far too many Americans taking advantage of the system. Do not blame it on legal immigrants who have to deal with a thousand more problems.
4
It's a winning idea (election-wise) but to Democrats, it's wrong. They will fight it at their peril and to Republican glee.
14
There has always been an option for our government to refuse to issue permanent status to immigrants who can’t evidence they can support themselves. What the announcement today is a typical Trump administration tactic to repeat the anti-immigrant narrative that his base loves to hear. And to frighten law abiding immigrants from applying for assistance. Does anyone believe that a holder of a visa who is working and paying taxes should be denied benefits if they lose their job? They are earning those benefits just like you and I.
2
So much for the talk about only going after undocumented immigrants.
4
Something ignored in the article is that there are very many legal aliens who have substantial assets off-shore and still draw substantial federal and state welfare benefits. Think about the Boston bombers and their family. Ostensibly, they immigrated here because they were at risk in their home country. They were receiving food stamps and housing support. But somehow they had enough money available to travel home [where they were in danger] on several occasions. When they were arrested, their mother had fled the US on shoplifting charges and was living in Germany on German welfare.
There are prosperous American citizens who have immigrated from India and Taiwan who bring over their elderly mother, because she is tired of living in the household of her number one son's wife's household, and she is immediately eligible for food stamps and Medicaid despite the fact that her number one son is legally responsible for providing for her in their home country. Why pay for Mom's food and healthcare when you can foist it off on the American taxpayer?
There is no way for an American welfare examiner to determine if an applicant has off-shore assets or if someone off-shore is legally responsible for their care. The sponsoring family member vowed that the parent will not be a charge of the government.
Melania's parents immigrated to this country. If she were not a public figures, she could provide housing and they would be eligible for federal benefits.
18
This is a blatant attempt to restrict immigration to more conservative people.
1
And the problem is?
I am glad to see an effort to reduce the freeloaders.
15
@Rocky It almost sounds like your saying liberals can't take care of themselves.
7
This is what hate and racism looks like. I am not just referring to the policy, but to the fact that so many people think they are decent human beings, a d support it.
You are not. Support for this policy is Xenophobic racism. It comes from a dark and evil place. Shame on all of you!
4
Trump and his racism disgust me. But what I read of the change in policy is not that the US will be sending home migrants who receive benefits but that when they apply for a green card how long they have received benefits will be a factor. I don't think that this means that only "wealthier people" will be allowed to immigrate. It doesn't apply to refugees, asylum seekers or pregnant women and children. I think that it means that people who can support themselves over time will receive preference over those who can't. People who can support themselves needn't be "wealthy". They do need to work. I went to the Canadian government's "Help Centre". They allow migrants to receive benefits for up to one year or whenever they can support themselves - whichever is soonest. After one year the financial help stops. Are they practicing racism too? The new rules seem practical to me. Immigrants have always been expected to work.
I think that the "wealthier" and "racist" take on this in the news is political. In a milder political climate and without a racist regime in the White House I think that this would be seen as a practical measure in immigration policy.
13
Immigration law already requires immigrants to provide proof that someone slready legally resident in the country will stand surety for them. I was recently asked to sign a document agreeing to guarantee financial support for a friend, an academic with advanced degrees, who was being sponsored for permanent residency by her American - born son. Her application required a second financial guarantor because her son is a college student with only a part-time job. As far as I know immigrant-aid groups provide the same guarantees for asylum seekers.
5
@West Texas Mama
If true, those guarantees must be meaningless or this wouldn’t be an issue in the first place
2
This proposed policy seems to fall in line with Western Europeans nations who have, since the end of World War II, encouraged immigration by persons with their own resources.
Today if you want to emigrate to Britain, from the US, the English are expecting you to arrive with at least $1,000,000 in assets first.
From the comments on this article it appears many Americans are, as always, amazed and shocked about an immigration policy that has been common sense in Europe for almost 70 years. Smaller European states calculated early on that their own generous welfare systems would be severely overtaxed without some threshholds on immigrant's resources.
The US is now waking up to some common sense as we enter the age of fiscal limits.
34
We only want to copy more things like European healthcare because it is more liberal. We don’t want to copy anything more conservative like welfare eligibility. Why can’t Republicans accept that?
5
Why should I be paying for someone with my taxes who can't stand on their own two feet? I'd rather support the US citizens who are homeless, camped out, in despair than to give to those who are not and relying on our system!
20
@Chris legal immigrants DO pay taxes like you and a lot of them come here with advanced degrees (PhD students) who are paid very little or run out of money due to many years of pending cases
1
If some immigrants are a drain on public welfare, the solution is to make them ineligible for said welfare, not kick them out of the country.
Creating a system where entering immigrants are mostly going to be substantially wealthier and more successful than the average American seems like a recipe for stirring up resentment against those immigrants. I see this in my part of the country, where our immigration consists of a small number of high-skilled immigrants (as conservatives want), yet many of the working class locals are quite xenophobic and had a big swing towards Trump.
4
There is nothing more frustrating than standing behind the someone with a EBT card that buys all the things that are allowed to buy then pay for steaks and alcohol thanks to the money they saved. To add insult an injury they are wearing brand new Nikes and a brand new smartphone. Here in California to get approved for section 8 housing and move multiple people in and charge those people rent making money on their section 8 housing. The United States guarantees the pursuit of happiness. United States does not guarantee that happiness.
16
You make such a solid point, Gabe. How dare people take the money they earned by working to buy meat and a bottle of wine. How awful to buy some protein every now and then to feed your children, or have something nice to put on their table to celebrate a birthday or anniversary. Such horrible people!
This is sarcasm, by the way. I figured I had to point it out, as your letter was so grammatically incorrect.
As a free country, people are allowed to purchase what they want at the grocery store with their hard earned money. They’re not taking your steaks OR your job. I’d much rather they purchase meat or even a bottle of wine over processed, fatty foods any day of the week. In the meantime, unless you want the person behind YOU to judge you based on the selections in your cart, you’d do well to keep your misinformed opinions to yourself.
5
Let me get this straight. Trump supporters claim immigrants are taking their jobs. For all of us to have inexpensive chicken on our dinner plates, immigrants, and many illegal, are essential workers for that to happen. But, the Trump solution is better educated immigrants? Those better educated immigrants are the ones who will be taking jobs some Americans may want. The grunt jobs, like working in chicken processing plants, have always been about the cheapest labor possible and the fewest rights as a worker (no union!). Trump supporters don't want those jobs, ever. Enjoy your cheap chicken while it lasts.
8
@Sarah Day Those jobs in chicken processing plants were done by Americans until they destroyed the unions and hired illegals. Those employers should be arrested and imprisoned.
20
Let me get this straight. There are an estimated 11-22 million illegal aliens here right now. I'm sure the Government has a fairly good idea about how many are here but don't want to say because they are making money off their backs. The majority seems like they are doing construction, maid work, etc. Not field work.v. How many do we need? How many can we handle?
6
The faith based community needs to provide a strong voice in opposition. There is nothing about this proposal that is consistent with Christianity.
5
@Nancy Every country has a right and a duty to do what is best for its citizens. Christianity has nothing to do with it.
16
@Nancy
Well actually churches were given tax waivers because they were supposed to support the charity of the poor. the government was never going to take care of the poor that was the whole reason for the church.
5
This will make the USA as evil as Canada, France, Australia, New Zealand, Germany and on an on. These rules are not for asylum seekers, these rules are for legal immigrants. Where this will have an impact is chain migration - particularly the elderly parents and grandparents of earlier immigrants.
17
@Mkm There is nothing evil about any country deciding who may become a citizen.
9
That was the point. I'm pretty sure the comment was sarcastic.
1
Immigrants who are not wealthy and white and not from northern Europe or other predominately white countries need not apply.
1
Not true. Wealthy/educated Asians and South Asians and their extended families are favored by this policy.
3
@elenifer Hey, give Trump time...Right now he is focused on those from Latin America.
But, keep in mind many of those wealthy/educated Asians and South Asians, as you put it, invest in properties that are in the favor of Trump and his cohorts in real estate.
“To arms! To arms! Trump wants to stop illegal immigrants from sneaking over the border and then living off the public dole! We have to block him!”
Really? This is the Democrats’ latest battle cry?
Are you trying to make Four More Years happen? Cuz that’s how you make Four More Years happen.
26
Thank you President Trump for finally enforcing our immigration laws.
16
What percentage of legal immigrants that will be affected are people of color? I'll bet the immigrants from Norway are nervous.
4
There are at least 2-3 BILLION extremely poor people in the world who would love to come to the US and live off our dole (i.e., taxpayer funds).
Does anyone seriously believe that the US could, or should, allow in people whom we taxpayers would have to support?
Reputable estimates are that there are 10-20 million illegal aliens in the US, many of whom are on public support and are eligible for medical care, while American CITIZENS are not being taken care of.
No nation, not even the US, can possibly afford open borders.
21
Share your evidence about millions of illegal immigrants on public assistance.
3
@JWyly More fairy tales from the grifter and his advisors on Fox "News".
Let's remind trump what appears on the Statue of Liberty. It does not say "Give me your wealthy , powerful and well connected." We already have far too many greedy wealthy people here.
2
@Steve
It also does not say "Give me your poor....we are obligated to pay for your housing, food, healthcare, and schooling." Immigrants of the past when that was written, pulled themselves up. Or they received help from family and friends.
16
@Steve It is the Statue of Liberty, not the statue of immigration.
15
Please Google "Statue of Liberty quote." It does indeed call for "...the homeless, the tempest-tossed." Learn some history before you attempt to engage in an argument. GEEZ!
1
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,"
Those days are over, that's who we needed back in the day. Don't need the huddled masses because they are a endless line and we are not doing a good job with our own masses.
Go into to the ghettos of any major city, or the hills of Appalachia, that's where the work needs to be done.
8
@Frank Thomas
Just for clarification the writer who wrote that was specifically talking about Russian Jews. Also the statue of liberty is facing outwards to bring the flame of liberty to the rest of the world not bring people to the United States.
6
Does the rule change apply to those currently living in America or to new immigrants coming in? I ask as it would be unfair to apply this rule to current immigrants because this rule was not in place when they came. They were acting in good faith when applying for benefits not realizing down the road it would have such grave implications for their ability to apply for a green card. Just curious.
What hasn’t been made clear that there has always been a law in place that allows the government to refuse green cards to immigrants who can’t evidence they can’t support themselves.
4
Good.... We don't need more people moving here that can't pull their own weight.
Way WAY past time to have done this...
19
May as well give the Statue of Liberty back to France.
2
@BJ Kapler - try and immigrate to France, or even get a 180days Visa. You have to prove you have the financial resources or no go.
14
@BJ Kapler If yo've ever tried, as a non US or European citizen, to even visit France, you'll see how tight even their visitor visa requirements are. They even ask that you show evidence of funds that your remains can be repatriated in the event you die there.
9
As the legal immigrant pool changes from largely poor, Latino to more middle-class, educated and Asian they’ll soon invent another barrier to keep too many of them coming in too. You’ll need to be skilled at ice skating and skiing or something. Just watch. There’s only one type of immigrant that Trump folks actually want.
Jesus says to "give to all who ask you". He doesn't say "give from your neighbors wallet all who ask you". Charity should be an individual contribution because the "The Lord loves a cheerful giver".
1
"An applicant who speaks English, shows formal letters of support and has private health insurance would be more likely to be approved than someone whose economic situation suggests they would probably need housing vouchers or enroll in Medicaid in the future if they were given a green card.
Over time, administration officials hope that the tough policy will shift the composition of the American immigration system by favoring wealthier immigrants."
With the exception the part about private health insurance (we have universal health insurance up here in Canada), this more or less sounds like the Canadian immigration system. Why is this even controversial?
21
@Tech Believer This is not controversial amongst most Americans, just the Trump haters and the media at the forefront of this hate.
13
On this policy we do agree with Trump. Our social welfare cost is to the point of breaking down. We do need more wealthy people in this nation. Who are already educated and can be an asset to our nation. Not a burden.
29
I find it extraordinary that many commentators reject the idea of a merit-based immigration system.
Flooding the country with what amounts to slave labor drives down wages, shrinks the tax base, weakens the middle class, disenfranchises and alienates the working class, increases unfunded demand for health and education services, increases crime, emasculates unions and - the worst outcome of all for those of us wanting a more equal society - simply makes the rich richer.
This is exactly what has happened in the US over the past 40 years.
28
PERFECT! Immigrants who come here must STAND ON THEIR OWN 2 FEET. In other words! I do not want to support them! YOU don't want to support them! They must come here, become a LEGAL US Citizen, WORK HARD, EARN their own money to support their own family. Contribute to the USA economy, Love our people and our country, and we love them. Any questions? I didn't think so.
19
@John Agree great post
Work hard legally and benefit our Nation is all we ask for.
8
If this type of policy existed years ago, we would never have had an Andrew Carnegie or, later, a Steve Jobs. Oh, and Trump wouldn't have his plenipotentiary minister Jared Kushner.
4
For anyone that’s screaming they pay taxes let me break this down for you. HUD and SNAP are federally funded programs by people that can afford to pay federal taxes and they’re the ones truly supporting these programs. People that qualify for either of these programs likely pay zero in federal taxes, because they don’t make enough money and are qualifying for subsidies. They may still on payroll get local state and city taxes and ss taken out, but that’s not helping federally. to understand scale it takes around $19k a year to put 1 child through public school in nyc. Thats paid for by state city and property taxes. Almost 50 percent of our country does not contribute to federal taxes because they make under the threshold (it would inappropriate to have them pay if they’re poor). So the argument that they pay isn’t solid enough to hold weight here. Unless we see figures disputing otherwise we have to assume these are low income workers and we simply cannot have country that signals to other countries that we will both take you and let you on our welfare system. Thats not wise. Especially when actual Americans are desperately needing our help. We have a homeless population skyrocketing it’s irresponsible to not fix our own problems immediately then we can turn to our immigrants and say we are plentiful let the gvt help you. In the meantime all of us Americans need to be kind to others if you have money offer if you have food feed the poor if you have time comfort the lonely.
23
There is a distinction between refugee and migrant. In the latter case these proposals are standard in other parts of the world and make economic sense. (In Australia if you have the money and can start a business you’re in). Americans confuse the two categories in this debate. One looks on in stupefaction at the US’s inability to control its borders and the costly compassion of the Democrats who seem to outdo each other in trading on this confusion of categories. For once Trump is right....especially as the US has long had a generous refugee intake.
17
@David Pollard Agree great post
6
Most mainstream economists have long recognized that open borders or other liberal immigration regimes are generally incompatible with a generous welfare state.
And it is not just Trump beginning to enforce this view. The Scandinavian states, with extremely generous social programs, and very high taxes to pay for them, are also grappling with this issue.
It is just common sense that if citizens opt for a cradle to grave welfare state, they may be reluctant to provide for everyone who wants to move there, and also are aware of the incentives doing so otherwise creates.
23
Here is why this is happening;
The Trump Wall st Administration and Congressional Republicans represent the rich. That you all know already.
The Trump strategy is to reduce the population of poor people who are now diluting the wealth or per capita wealth of the nation. The Rich just were released from much of their financial responsibility to pay for supporting the nation and paying for the defense and services they get from the government. The increase in poor immigrants then becomes a drain on the government that predictably would then increase taxes on Wall Street and the rich. It's simple really.
1
No doubt Melania's family came here with significant resources and exemplary professional expertise as they achieved citizenship without delay.
7
Nothing wrong with that. Wealthier immigrants are generally better educated and can make a contribution to our economy rather than being a burden to US taxpayers.
20
Even as a liberal and Warren supporter, I have to say that this rule change will strike most Americans as immenintly sensible. It’s easy to summarize and communicate: Public support should go to poor American citizens born here and struggling, not people who chose to come to this country. This is exactly how Trump will win a second term.
48
Unfortunately, common sense and nuance have no place in the current Democratic Party.
10
The entire world already discriminate against poor people. I don't need the US government to gang up on them too.
3
Not all legal immigrants have a rich sugar daddy. But Melania wouldn't know that.
3
I am a genealogist. Many folks commenting seem to think that immigrants of the past and recent past only came through Ellis Island in mass numbers. One comment even stated that those immigrants were screened screened for being likely to become a "public charge"--which is incorrect. To simply cite Ellis Island as a port of entry is immensely incomplete. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants came through Philadelphia, Baltimore, New Orleans, and Boston to mention a few. In NYC before Ellis Island was established, immigrants came through Castle Garden. If people are going to cite immigration policy and circumstances from the past, I suggest they do some research and get their facts straight. I also suggest that they trace their family's history and find out both the circumstances (for instance the Great Famine in Ireland) that led them to emigrate from their home country and if/when they ever became U.S. citizens once they were here (hint--many did not). I can guarantee that the research will be eye-opening and, hopefully, help people to see everything related to the current situation in new, more empathic context.
8
@NicePerson Speaking for myself and hundreds of thousands like me - when I first came to this country, I was asked to show proof that I was able to financially support myself and had adequate health insurance. Throughout the time I was on a pathway to a Green Card, I never even considered it a remote possibility that I could rely on government aid. I paid taxes and social security in the full knowledge that if I chose to go back (or had to), I would lose pretty much all that I'd paid into the system. I did so willingly for the benefit of US citizenship that I knew I could work towards. This rule makes a lot of sense to me. It is what I went through. It is what every sensible country requires. Europe requires this and more - they even ask that you show proof of funds to repatriate your remains to your home country if you die there.
20
@Michael You and others are fortunate to have come here under such circumstances. I can understand why you think this policy change makes "sense." What is lacking is what from my POV is empathy for people who are not so fortunate who lack the initial means and come from desperate situations. In addition--
Both documented and undocumented immigrants pay more into public benefit programs than they take out. According to Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, undocumented immigrants contribute an estimated $11.74 billion to state and local economies each year. However, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for many of the federal or state benefits that their tax dollars help fund.
Legal immigrants use federal public benefit programs at lower rates than U.S.-born citizens. As recently as 2013, the rate at which non-citizens have used public benefit programs was less than that of U.S.-born citizens. For example, 32.5 percent of native-born citizen adults receive SNAP benefits compared to 25.4 percent of naturalized citizen adults and 29 percent of noncitizen adults. In addition to immigrants’ lower rate of SNAP usage, they also receive lower benefit values, costing the program less.
2
@NicePerson Studies such as the one you cite are very clever and are designed to advance an agenda. They lump all immigrants - legal and otherwise, and high earning and lower wage - together and then imply that all immigrants use benefits at a lower rate than citizens do. I can really think of no reason why any person that cannot demonstrate an ability to support themselves should be considered for permanent residency on an individual basis regardless of what an overall average says. Every other country considers immigration as a privilege, not a right. We need to seriously do so as well. Enforcing this requirement is in line with what every other country in the world does.
Isn't this just common sense? As a former legal immigrant myself, I do not see why I should have been entitled to benefits paid for by American citizens. The rule excludes refugees and other potentially vulnerable people, which makes good sense. What's the fuss about?
32
Because that’s not their ultimate goal.
5
"would give the Trump administration a powerful new tool to narrow the demographic"
Another government that favored powerful tools to narrow demographics: Germany in the 1930s and 40s.
And wasn't the point of the shrink-government crowd that the U.S. government had too many, too powerful, tools?
2
Is this retroactive? I mean all the Vietnamese refugees I tutored so they could speak English back in 1975 "took" some "welfare" benefits so they could eat while they learned enough English to get jobs. Which they all did. Do they now have to pay that pittance back?
5
The rule doesn’t apply to refugees and asylum seekers.
9
It is extremely sensible policy to say that prospective immigrants need to show proof that they will not be a burden on the citizenry. I can think of no other country that allows prospective immigrants to avail of public welfare benefits. European countries for example have very tight requirements on proof of funds and health insurance for visitors and immigrants. I have to wonder how much of the outrage here is purely because this is a Trump Administration policy.
26
Bring me your wealthy, your already educated, your energetic and healthy.
But let them find out that endangered species, including us, will no longer be protected from pollution in the air, water, crops and anywhere else.
Be warned, wealthy and educated, that you are coming to a land with failing infrastructure. A land of gun violence and vote suppression and racism (even if you are educated and an employed profession, the police may still stop you and question you or people may discriminate against you).
We are land no longer truly “free” - so be brave!
11
People who don't look like "us", should be be referred to in the most degrading terms and live in constant fear...maybe we should put "them" in camps to make our lives better...oh God, we are already doing that! Donald Trump, Stephen Miller and their crowd are morally bankrupt. Are we too?
4
I too despise Trump but believe this is the correct decision. A couple of the contributors below apparently believe that LEGAL immigrants will have services taken away from them. That is not the idea. It will apply to PROSPECTIVE legal immigrants to determine whether they are likely to be able to pay for themselves. Of course we can't do as "Proud Immigrant" suggests, and take taxes from legal immigrants but then deny them services.
I doubt there is any country in the world that simply allows anybody into the country, and then starts give them cash payments as if they were citizens.
21
you'd have to understand the details and not fall for erroneous generalizations. Nobody walks in here and starts receiving cash payments. That's simply not true.
There are very specific circumstances in which individuals may receive certain benefits, but as it was in my case, I didn't choose to sign up for Medicare 3 weeks upon arriving. There was a big fire in the house next door and and I ended up in the hospital with a bill that the insurance co. wouldn't cover. The hospital took a couple of Xrays and gave a few pads to clean up. Yet the bill was solid in the 5 figures.
This is just an example, but have no doubt that the ultimate goal of this administration is to make America inhospitable. The degenerate 45th president has to go.
5
With all due respect, you are wrong on the facts! Who do you call prospective legal immigrants? Those who have some kind of visa? Well they simply do NOT have access to some of these benefits anyway. They simply do not qualify.
In addition, green card holders have to re-apply every 10 years. This new mandate would mean that those who reapply cannot have any strikes against them or they would loose their residency. So yes, by the facto, any green card holder have lost access to these benefits if they want to have any chance of staying in this country (and that is regardless of what country they come from).
3
@Robert We also agree with Trump on this issue
5
Everyone can fall on hard times and needs a helping hand. Remember when unemployment was ten percent and over? What this provision could do is most affect low-wage industries like retail and food processing. When you factor in federal, state, local, and sales taxes, the US is a high-tax, low-benefit, low-skilled country. US employers don't want to invest in equipment, education or training and rely upon exploited labor. Look at construction; what used to be a skilled trade has become deskilled.
In my limited experience in California, I saw large immigrant families relying upon everyone working in low-wage jobs. Food stamps and benefits subsidized employers' low wages. Employers preferred filipinos and latinos to blacks and anglos because of their fear of protesting bad working conditions. In fact, when I was a young boomer, we worked jobs I see immigrants in now. Immigration was opened up when we started organizing. So, this may backfire on employers.
4
And while at it, maybe we can revoke the citizenship of people who lead their companies through multiple bankruptcies.
Donald - You may leave the country now. I will happily pay for a one way ticket for you to travel in the cargo hold.
7
Talk to anyone in health care or social services about recent immigrants, especially the elderly and already physical and mentally ill immigrants, who are getting benefits, including Medicaid, or who have no insurance so the bill is paid for by the US taxpayer. These people have never paid into the system and never will but are often receiving more benefits than the elderly parents of the doctors, social workers, nurses and aides who are taking care of them.
We have so many destitute Americans already, we should be focusing resources towards them. We are under no obligation to support immigrants, their elderly parents, or their already ill family members. It happens much more than people realize and the cost is astronomical.
24
@Rob Yes, and many of them never worked a day in this country, yet receive multiple benefits. I know because I live across the hall from a family like this.
And then they wonder why SS funds are being depleted.
11
This will certainly make the US even more attractive to those who abhor regulation and any deference to the commons. Greed, corruption, and enforced inequity should make these new colonists feel right at home.
2
My husband's paternal grandmother was the sole survivor ( hidden in a cellar) when the Cassocks invaded her Russian Jewish village outside Kiev when she was 16.
Hours later when she emerged from the cellar to face that horror, she walked to the next village. The elders of that village decided her only chance for a normal life that would be if they bought her a boat ticket to America. So they did.
In steerage, she met a young man traveling with his parents to their new homeland. After processing at Ellis Island, they went ashore, and shortly after that she married him.
She made certain every single one of her sons went to college. My husband's father got his PhD from Columbia U., another uncle got a law degree, and another uncle became a key official at NASA.
The words of Lady Liberty describe my husband's grandmother. And that grandmother created a wonderful, productive family that rose above poverty and trauma to help build another stage of this nation.
THEY, and the promise of Lady Liberty, are what make America great.
Trump is oblivious.
3
@Jean Sweet story. That was what century? This is 2019. Sixty to seventy percent of immigrants receive at least one form of government assistance now. Your ancestors did not receive govt assistance. Big difference.
20
@Jean When they came to the USA there was no social welfare state like today. That is the magnet they pulls poor people here. Freedom does not mean free stuff from uncle sam
15
Trump proposes the best immigration policy....that money can buy.
2
Looks like Americans will have to do their dirty work themselves. Let see how long that will last. lol
5
@Apple The majority of Americans do their own dirty work. It’s the 1 percent and super wealthy who don’t.
10
We can take jobless green card holders and make them Federal prison guards so they keep other Jeffrey Epsteins alive. Then they wouldn’t be on the public dole.
1
"...Mr. Miller’s view that immigrants should not rely on financial support from the government".
And presumably Trump's view too.
Shouldn't supporting immigrants initially be seen as an investment towards long term national benefit?
If the state builds a road or railway it doesn't expect to start recouping the cost (or benefitting from the advantage of improved transport) from the day the first sod is turned; it only comes when the project is finished.
I wonder how many epic scientific advances and medical breakthroughs by migrants and/or their children would not have happened if these rules (which Trump wants to implement) were in place in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.
2
@Bruce Stafford. “...long term national benefit.” ?? What benefits does a nation receive from uneducated, unskilled, non-English speaking people whose jobs have been replaced by automation? A lifetime of govt benefits at the cost to the middle class.
12
I was naturalized ten years ago or so and I have been paying US taxes for over 20. Should I fall on hard times, will my benefits be pro-rated accordingly, I wonder? You can take the administration's logic and take it in a number of possible directions.
I travel internationally for work and every time I return to US now I worry someone will look at my place of birth and start asking additional questions.
"First they came for....." It has started.
7
Once you are a citizen the green card rules do not apply.
One would have hoped for you to become little better informed citizen.
1
I do think we need a balance of types of immigrants and where they are from. Right now we have an immigration crisis, and people fleeing countries to save their lives. These years have seen the largest migrations since World War II, and it is normal for people to have mixed feelings about this, and how to take in people in need as in, "give me your poor...." Yet, most recently, a visitor from Germany described the difficulty with Syrian refugees and Germany's open borders. Many of these refugees, he said, get aid, while many German elders are not taken care of and out on the street. So this is all about balance and about helping immigrants we cannot house here, to find another country open to them. We also need to take in those coming from other countries, who are waiting their turn. It is also true, that many of the children of these immigrants are highly motivated to succeed and contribute to the society. We need a balance that won't take away from the needs of current citizens.
11
@K.M Most of the illegals coming here, and many who reside in your state and mine are economic migrants. Their claims for asylum are fraudulent. They’ve been coached as to what to say.
12
As many other commenters have noted: this is the standard for most countries. I have dual citizenship in an EU country. And, yes, absolutely, I had to document that I was gainfully employed, educated, spoke the language and had significant assets/savings. This is standard fare.
I am no fan of Trump but it really dismays me to see these "outraged" comments. Seriously, do none of you possess a passport?
38
@CitizenX,
As Romney once said: it's the 47%.
Maybe the outrage is from the 47% who don't pay taxes.
2
We don't need more rich people. They are already on the government dole. We can't afford them. We need more people who can do the work and earn the money.
3
This is a good decision. Why we we give Green cards to those who can’t support themselves
15
Oh, so MAGA should be MAWA, make America white again...I don't think so.
3
@Michael Yes, Michael, play the tired race card. Yawn.
9
@Michael
Your post indicates that you believe only Whites are capable of supporting themselves. How is that not racist?
8
One wonders whether his in-laws were subject to the same level of scrutiny that he is now proposing for others. Besides all that, the most wonderful thing about a democracy is this: Anything that this deplorable person enacts through the pathological compliance of his toothless party can be unzipped and undone:
1. Tax laws - undo them and go back to the Obama administration policy
2. Immigration laws - enact sensible legislation but destroy the inhumane shelters
3. Anti Iran policy - revert back to the Obama era policy of ensuring that the players in the Middle East are our partners as opposed to being our opponents. Not everything in the Middle East is called Israel
4. Trade wars - call a truce and revert back to normal trade relations with China. There are better ways to ensure that they are compliant with intellectual property protection than to simply hammer them with tariffs. And oh by the way, there ain't anything wrong with a Chinese company becoming a competitive threat to an American firm. It is called Competition. I suppose Trump was absent the day they taught it at Wharton. I think he was absent for all the classes all the time and spent time playing games in the video arcade - and losing.
5. Guns - ban assault weapons and work toward an annulment of the 2nd amendment. We don't need to have our lives run by the NRA
6. Twitter - Its a means to engage. Not the only means to engage all the time in a manner that is both filthy and deplorable.
4
I don't like Trump and disagree on most of his policies. I agree on this one.
19
This how other countries do it. They want people with their own resources and money. Look it up. Civilized countries, democracies of Europe prefer people with money as immigrants.
22
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus Agree even in Asians Nations Like Viet Nam Better have an income or retirement saving Or they boot you out
4
What this is really about is keeping the base happy. Trump supporters are overwhelmingly white older Christian heterosexual men with no tolerance of anyone who veers from their own profile. Every one of Trump's disasterous decisions is a result of his desperation to get elected again so that he can stay out of prison.
5
@NYCtoMalibu You should watch a Trump rally. Lots of women. Brown and black faces. He will be re-elected.
6
Sure. We have eyes. It’s overwhelmingly White.
This is so petty, it is not as though the benefits available are all that expansive to start with. It is simply another attempt by Trump, Miller , and the other White Nationalists currently in power to stop any one who is poor from gaining full residency status.
I guess its OK to be a Grifter and claim you are bankrupt on no less than 3 occasions, and walk away from your creditors AKA Working Americans owing them millions of dollars and destroying their lives.
But somehow there is an issue if someone who is poor should apply for Food Stamps.
I will ask again why are we not out on the street protesting this and Trumps other racist policies.
5
So many critics here think Canada is a more moral and decent country than the US. Guess what? Trump is proposing what Canada already does.
35
Canada takes many poor people,too.
2
As refugees. We do as well. Like so many are doing in runt comments, you are conflating immigrants with refugees.
3
This headline is absurdly misleading. There’s a vast gulf between being self supporting or not asking for public assistance and being “wealthy”. See the questionnaire in today’s NY Times article on being “rich”. It’s definition certainly doesn’t comport with the use being made of wealth in this article.
The article is also based upon a false premise: that immigrants are currently allowed to claim title 8 housing benefits, food stamps or aid to families with dependent children. They are not, as far as I know. I was a legal aid lawyer, and we were trained to make sure needy people claimed benefits to which they were entitled. It’s been awhile. At that time, citizens only had these rights. Green card holders, by definition, are people with jobs, and generally not low paying jobs. Has the law changed? Are immigrants, including undocumented immigrants, now entitled to any of these benefits? Of course, children receive free public education and all people in this country must be given emergency medical care, but other than that, please inform us of who can get what services and on what basis.
7
@Dee Captiva As I’m sure you know, every anchor baby is entitled to all govt benefits including welfare and food stamps. Until recently, their illegal parents were given section 8 housing, as well, because of their American born children.
8
@Olivia Correction: Their illegal parents in NYC were given section 8 housing, but no longer.
2
Would the Trump family have been denied citizenship? Could the government largesse they enjoyed after bankrupting several businesses have been predicted?
The statement that "officials would have a broad leeway" in making these predictions is frighteningly vague. My guess is immigrants from Norway will make the cut, and many from Africa, Asia, and Latin America, will not.
Right. It's those pesky immigrants who are draining our fed.
Because immigrants reap the windfalls of endless tax loopholes, stock buybacks, corporate welfare, prime rate reductions, political largesse, offshore accounts, international business holdings, and 'charitable' deductions.
5
A part of me is happy because this could potentially reduce the wait time for legal immigrants like me who haven't utilized the social welfare programs. The current immigration system heavily favors people with family already in the country and imposes a per country quota on incoming immigrants.
EB2 green card application pending. Studied in USA but waiting because of long line for people from India. At the moment, USCIS is still processing application filed 10 years ago, in 2009.
However, I won't be surprised if "Miller time" decides to visit me after it is done with the financially less fortunate immigrants.
2
"But immigration advocates reacted with anger at the announcement, calling it a cruel policy that they said was already causing immigrants around the country to abandon housing and medical benefits because they were concerned about the impact that using them might have on their immigration status or the status of someone in their family."
We can be certain we know who's spearheading the public disinformation campaign.
4
With the exception of native Americans, every American has ancestors who immigrated to this country either because they were desperately poor or due to religious persecution. In fact, the original illegal immigrants were the European colonists who landed on Plymouth Rock in 1620, and whose descendants and subsequent European settlers expanded to the western frontier of the continent.
5
Bit of a stretch to say that every person who ever immigrated to America did so because they were poor.
6
The poem on the Statue of Liberty is only that: A poem. It's not the policy of the US.
Besides, when those "wretched teeming masses" were coming over here, public benefits didn't exist. They were on their own.
23
@JamesP Exactly. I have made this comment as well.
2
Finally, a sensible and long-overdue decision!
21
Nothing new
35 years ago when I applied for a green card I had to prove that I have a job and sufficient funds not to become a public burden
When my adult children immigrated here 30 years ago they had to prove the same as, did all other legal immigrants since
25
"Trump Policy Favors Wealthier Immigrants for Green Cards"
You mean like those people who paid to help the Kushners build their development in NJ?
https://money.cnn.com/2017/05/06/news/jared-kushner-nicole-family-event/index.html
Who could imagined!
5
It is deceptive to describe self-supporting immigrants as "wealthy" immigrants. When I came as an immigrant, I had a job and did not rely on public funds. But, I could not yet afford to buy a car. So I was not exactly wealthy. To conflate "self supporting" and "wealthy" is typical of the deception which NYT constantly practices.
35
They are definitely going to have to change the words on the Statue of Liberty.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Now it's give me your credit card number, bank account balance, and it would help a lot if you're white.
6
@RA GoBucks Why not just auction off the Statue of Liberty? It obviously doesn't represent anything, anymore.
@RA GoBucks,
I have argued for knocking the thing down in the harbor and turn it into a coral reef; shrimp and oysters can play on it.
1
“Trump Policy Favors Wealthier Immigrants for Green Cards” That is good news. We have more than enough American poor, legal immigrant poor and illegal immigrant poor.
17
All countries favor wealthy immigrants instead of poor.
26
Except us, until now.
1
I'm sure all those looking to enter the U. S. under the H1b visa program can't wait to get their job picking vegetables in the Imperial Valley or slaughtering chickens in Mississippi.
7
What a great idea!!!
Keep out immigrants who will go on the public dole (taxpayer funds).
This is what other countries do, too, in order to avoid bankrupting themselves and becoming magnets for the billions of poor people around the world who would love to live on the public purse.
22
That is true to some degree, but to balance that, they take in truly desperate indigent refugees.
1
@Mon Ray
Just out of curiosity, do you know for sure that none of you immigrant relatives didn't get a hand-up or a hand out from the public coffers?
Lot of public lands went for pennies on the dollar.
There is nothing the Tump administration can do to please the very opinionated NYTimes and most of its reader.
You use your education and intelligence to picture any proposal of this administration under a negative view. I voted all Democratic last election.
I support most of this president proposal on Immigration.
What is the democratic solution? Add more immigration judges, to then complain if the ones rejected are deported?
17
It is clear. America is Not being ruined by immigration legal or otherwise. American is being ruined by Trump and his band of evil advisors.
4
Inevitably this will improve prospect for highly qualified individuals to successfully emigrate to United States, swelling corporation's ranks with employees of race other than white's. If they are unable to move up the ranks of these corporations they will create their own company or re-emigrate, either way loosening grip of white's. Did the president's advisor thought this through? You look at the landscape today there are more non-white graduating from top-to-bottom engineering schools, more non-whites are given admission based on merit in most of these engineering schools. And how long management in these corporations will stop these non-white emigrants rise to the top? It is inevitable, to do well you have to get colorblind
2
I believe there are two kinds of immigration. People who want to move here and asylum seekers. The former should be based on American need while the latter is charity. No more chain migration, lottery or quoters.
15
My relative had to leave the US after working for 2 years. He worked for 2 years after finishing his Masters in Electrical Engineering and was on his job when his visa was rejected.
I am surprised to hear that folks who are not Green Card holders are claiming benefits here.
Per the INS, Only a Green Card holder is an "immigrant", visa holders are "non-immigrants".
I will be voting against the Democratic party. This is sheer pandering to the Hispanic vote
16
Give me your advantaged, your wealthy, Your powerful elites yearning to breathe air that will be increasingly polluted, The well-heeled fortunates floating yachts off your teeming shore. Send these, the fortunate, nouveau-riche to me, I lift my palm beside the golden door, expecting a big tip!
I suppose it doesn't matter. The inscription on Lady Liberty has not been a statement of truth since 1923. It needs an update. Perhaps Trump can supply this via tweet. We wouldn't want to welcome immigrants with a lie.
2
Who knew what a desperate need this country has for chicken pluckers, lettuce pickers, and immigrant rights advocates to keep the system rolling? And now we wish to add people who can't work at all? Anyone who isn't for a merit based immigration system, and no more chain migration, must be dedicated to evening out the standard of living of the entire planet. And while I sympathize, I don't want to live at the protein level of a peasant in central India or Africa.
9
trump’s own mother and his draft-dodging grandfather would not have made it in under such a policy.
4
Guess Liberty Island will make a nice Trump Miniature golf course after the Statue of Liberty is sold to highest bidder. Maybe Steve Ross can build a Ellis Yards to compliment the eradication of immigration.
America needs immigrants but we don’t need illegal immigrants. We need to rid of illegal immigrants and remove them from our cities and towns as efficiently as possible. We need to punish heavily also employers and business owners knowingly hiring illegal immigrants who ironically are registered Republican. However we need to remember and elevate hardworking law abiding immigrants who are here legally. Most immigrants I know in nyc work 50-60hrs a week while my suburban cookie cutter friends work 35-40hrs.
6
Anything and everything for the rich. Nothing for the poor. That’s what the Trump administration stands for. Cruel, callous, and un-Christian (or any other religion for that matter).
1
It's too bad that Trump's standards weren't in place when his own grandfather immigrated from Germany. We could have been spared the whole nightmare we have now.
7
@FilmMD When many of our grandparents or in my case my Great-Great-Great-Great Parents came there was no social welfare or food stamps or health insurance or Snap programs. They had to fend for themselves, just like those immigrants who are coming today should!
4
@Let me know
Oh please---you say they should fend for themselves so you can exploit them for cheap underpaid labor, to feather your own nest. Just stop.